00:01:35 <GregorR-L> ere, now I have a plugin so all my text is properly ornified.
00:01:58 <pikhq> Nice I just have to be sure to type þat manually.
00:02:02 <GregorR-L> Now at nobody can understand me, I'm trying to maximize e ''s in is sentence.
00:02:15 <pikhq> Fortunately for me, þe compose key makes it raþer easy.
00:02:35 <GregorR-L> Not as easy as just auto-replace :P
00:03:03 <pikhq> True. However, it's not hard to reach down and hit þe Windows key from time to time.
00:04:11 <pikhq> Þy þorniness is amazing. Doest þou concur?
00:04:44 <pikhq> Ah. Þat explains it, þen.
00:05:06 <pikhq> But can you do.. ðis?
00:05:07 <GregorR-L> at's ree key presses for you, right? And one is awkward.
00:05:50 <pikhq> I could stick compose on a somewhat more convenient key. Like, oh, I dunno. Shift key? Backspace?
00:06:23 <pikhq> It's not like I use backspace much; þere's Emacs combos for þat.
00:08:15 <Slereah> Even the passenger gets in trouble! D:þ
00:08:33 <pikhq> Slereah: Vi anakŭ.
00:08:37 <pikhq> Slereah: Vi anakaŭ.
00:08:38 <GregorR-L> Also, ine moer smelle as yonder jackass.
00:09:04 <FireFly> And thine father smelt of elderberries?
00:09:11 <pikhq> GregorR-L: But þy moþer was a hamster and þy faþer smelt of elderberries.
00:09:18 -!- inurinternet has joined.
00:09:34 <pikhq> FireFly: Use þine when one would use "mine" and þy when one would use "my".
00:12:43 <pikhq> And yet, m'þinkest þat þy þoughts are limitéd to þe berries of elder. Doest þou þink of oþer þings?
00:13:41 <ehird> 23:19 pikhq: Yes, Unicode will probably soon support a script that has been used for exactly one known document. ← voynich?
00:13:46 <pikhq> Ah, indeed. An interesting statement of þine.
00:14:15 <pikhq> (liþpþ are contagiouþ)
00:14:41 <pikhq> Slereah: Þe letter þorn.
00:15:43 <ehird> voynich in unicode would be nice
00:15:51 <ehird> also klingon; the Bible and hamlet have been published in it iirc
00:16:24 <FireFly> Can one make a thorn rotated 90°, lying on it's round part, with unicode?
00:16:42 <pikhq> Þere's also þe Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet, IIRC.
00:16:57 <ehird> it's not as if unicode's filling up
00:17:15 <GregorR-L> We should use unicode codepoints as IP addresses.
00:18:21 <pikhq> Erm. Never mind. Unicode is a 32-bit encoding.
00:19:52 <ehird> pikhq: ipv6 is 128 isn't it
00:20:31 <ehird> also unicode uses slightly less than 32 bits
00:20:41 <ehird> so you'd have to use a bit over 4 chars
00:21:08 <FireFly> IPv4 would be represented by two Unicode chars? (u0000 to uFFFF)
00:21:23 <ehird> pikhq: unicode assigns 0-1114111
00:21:26 <ehird> 32-bit is 4294967296
00:21:53 <ehird> pikhq: 21-bit is the smallest that can hold unicode
00:22:39 <ehird> pikhq: so you need ~6.095 unicode characters to represent an ipv6 address
00:22:53 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:23:04 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 41.0
00:23:17 <ehird> nescience: how's that one work
00:23:25 <ehird> looks sort of like i_keelst_thou
00:23:31 <ehird> or was it thoust, I forget
00:23:41 <nescience> i don't know, i didn't read that one
00:23:50 <nescience> it skips one or two possible places for speed
00:23:57 <nescience> then decs 127, 128, 129 with pauses and moves to the next
00:24:22 <ehird> nescience: i_keelst_thou is basically set up some decoys, then 21 times, (-)*128, [-], next cell
00:24:31 <ehird> so it advances really slowly, and avoids loopin
00:24:42 <ehird> it just reminded me of it
00:24:49 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:25:00 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 52.6
00:25:25 <ehird> "17th Century Damascus Blades Found to Contain Carbon Nanotubes"
00:25:28 <ehird> Shit, those guys were high-tech.
00:26:06 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.(>(+)*127-.-.)*11
00:26:16 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 0.0
00:26:24 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.>(+)*127-.-.)*11
00:26:35 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 26.3
00:26:35 <ehird> !bfjoust i_keelst_thou_allornothing (>)*16((-)*128.->(+)*128.+>)*11
00:26:43 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:26:46 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou_allornothing: 26.9
00:26:54 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 51.4
00:27:09 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:27:20 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 58.7
00:28:44 <ehird> got quite far with my interp today
00:28:59 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*20>(+)*20)*5[>(-)*100[-].+]
00:29:02 <ehird> just needs a bit of fixing, some additional stuff and I can hack up a contest infrastructure
00:29:10 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 27.1
00:29:38 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing ->>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:29:41 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*20>(+)*20)*5[>[-].+]
00:30:00 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 46.0
00:30:00 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 47.4
00:30:08 <nescience> !bfjoust allornothing >>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21
00:30:09 <GregorR-L> Define "contest infrastructure" in is context.
00:30:18 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_allornothing: 55.7
00:30:32 <nescience> he wants to do more than return w/l/t
00:30:55 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>->+)*5[>[-].+]
00:31:07 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 34.3
00:31:22 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*32>(+)*32)*5[>[-].+]
00:31:25 <nescience> by the way, my vote is for something like wins = 5 points, ties = 2 or 3 points, loss = 0 points
00:31:32 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 50.4
00:31:34 <nescience> let's have the program that wins the most on top
00:31:46 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> Define "contest infrastructure" in þis context. <--- þ <-- ?
00:31:59 <nescience> but i bet it's not hard and soft th both?
00:32:00 <GregorR-L> Is EVERYBODY against my winning-against-important-programs-is-better style?
00:32:18 <GregorR-L> nescience: Not in Icelandic, but is is English.
00:32:30 <AnMaster> GregorR, that sounds like a good idea!
00:34:03 <GregorR-L> I've decided at e letter orn needs to come back.
00:34:21 <AnMaster> GregorR, therhaths this isn't a very useful way to write
00:34:34 <nooga> i always thought that þ is icelandic th
00:34:38 <GregorR-L> Only because you're not used to e letter orn :P
00:34:50 <GregorR-L> nooga: It is. But it was in English until about 200 years ago.
00:34:57 <AnMaster> GregorR, what has porn got to do with it?
00:35:55 <GregorR-L> But anyway, it's e most recent letter e English alphabet lost.
00:35:59 <GregorR-L> And I'm fighting to get it back! :P
00:36:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, the difference is really small in this font. At this reading distance
00:36:14 <pikhq> Shakespeare probably used it, but þat's about as recent as it gets.
00:36:15 <AnMaster> so I'm just going to read it as p
00:36:18 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: at's perhaps why it's gone :P
00:36:23 <GregorR-L> pikhq: No way Shakespeare used it.
00:36:48 <pikhq> GregorR-L: 400-500 years? It's possible.
00:37:05 <pikhq> His work is about as late as it's even possible to guess, þough.
00:37:49 <AnMaster> GregorR, I do have a relative in Minneapolis called Pat. Quite a far off relative.
00:38:01 <pikhq> BTW, there's anoþer letter þat English lost more recently.
00:38:03 * nooga is starting to think about making SADOL based language with less minimal syntax
00:38:22 <pikhq> Art þou familiar wiþ þe long S?
00:38:22 <GregorR-L> Anyway, I was actually asking is: Is everybody against my winning-against-important-enemies-gains-you-more-points ranking system?
00:38:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombgirl.
00:39:35 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> Anyway, I was actually asking þis: Is everybody against my winning-against-important-enemies-gains-you-more-points ranking system? <-- yes and no
00:40:04 <ehird> 00:32 GregorR-L: Is EVERYBODY against my winning-against-important-programs-is-better style? ← I support it
00:40:15 <AnMaster> GregorR, what do you think about this simple one?
00:40:23 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: at's not "yes and no", at's firmly against my system :P
00:40:28 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Long s is awesome. :)
00:40:33 <AnMaster> GregorR, define IMPORTANT program
00:40:34 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: at's how e "points" system works, but e "score" system is more complicated.
00:40:44 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: A program which itself has beat a lot of programs.
00:40:56 <GregorR-L> See http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES
00:40:58 <AnMaster> GregorR, what exact values used for it
00:41:45 <AnMaster> "This gives the scores a range of 0-100 through convoluted math I choose not to go in to." <-- is that the relevant bit
00:42:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, I want to know the exact forumla for the "is important"
00:42:26 <GregorR-L> e base score is e important part, e score is just multiplied up to put it in a "human" range.
00:42:36 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: at'll counter my t h -> filter :P
00:42:48 <nescience> GregorR-L: i'm not complaining, it works ok
00:42:51 <AnMaster> GregorR, that was the intention
00:42:51 <pikhq> GregorR-L: I þought þou wert going to use long S?
00:43:00 <nescience> but i think that i prefer the other way is all
00:43:05 <pikhq> A hint: if it's not þe final s, use it. ;)
00:43:22 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Yeah, I'm trying to write at as a sed expression :P
00:43:23 <nescience> i voiced it because ehird was talking about (possibly?) redoing the tournament structure
00:43:34 <ehird> and I'm open to suggestions
00:43:52 <GregorR-L> I ink someing in between would probably be better, but I don't ink my system is bad :P
00:44:20 <pikhq> Sweet! I juſt found out what þe compoſe combination for it is. :)
00:44:42 <pikhq> (Þere is not a capital long S)
00:44:42 <ehird> I think your system is pretty good, GregorR-L, but instead of winning against points, it should be win against score. Yes, this is an infinite regress, but if you can solve that it'll probably end up fairer.
00:44:47 <pikhq> AnMaster: Compose f s
00:44:56 <ehird> Have some sort of base case.
00:44:59 <nescience> two equally good programs can score widely differently
00:45:01 <GregorR-L> ehird: I desperately want to solve at, I haven't found a fixed point.
00:45:03 <nescience> depending on how they do against each other
00:45:06 <nescience> and i don't think that is desirable
00:45:13 <ehird> GregorR-L: I'll toy with stuff when I make my infrastructure ~tomorrow.
00:45:18 <pikhq> Altgr is someþing else entirely.
00:45:19 <nooga> is it good idea to build a lang that allows to define custom infix operators just like functions ?
00:45:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, where do I find the compose key then.....
00:45:37 <pikhq> Altgr is ſomeþing elſe entirely.
00:45:41 <ehird> AnMaster: Your space cadet keyboard.
00:45:49 <AnMaster> ehird, assume I don't have one
00:45:54 <pikhq> AnMaster: Moſt keyboards don't have one.
00:45:56 <ehird> AnMaster: Your life is terrible. Kill yourself.
00:46:10 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not as sensitive as you
00:46:11 <ehird> He may have another kb with a compose key.
00:46:13 <pikhq> I bound þe Windows key to compoſe.
00:46:17 <ehird> Using a space cadet keyboard would be hell.
00:46:20 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg
00:46:25 <ehird> Tons of useless keys and no F-keys, etc.
00:46:40 <pikhq> keycode 133 = Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key
00:46:43 <pikhq> keycode 134 = Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key
00:46:45 <ehird> AnMaster: w/ a conventional OS, I mean.
00:46:45 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't use F-keys often
00:46:54 <Slereah> I'm in love with that keyboard
00:46:56 <GregorR-L> Anybody elſe want my annoying plugin?
00:47:04 <pikhq> GregorR-L: I'd love it.
00:47:05 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> Perfect :) <-- Therfect?
00:47:12 <ehird> AnMaster: still, those greek things, "over strike", a bloody "help" key
00:47:17 <AnMaster> I can't tell the difference in this font
00:47:18 <Slereah> Fuck, it even has turnstiles
00:47:21 <ehird> wouldn't be useful for linux etc
00:47:24 <AnMaster> GregorR, and that doesn't highlight me
00:47:30 <GregorR-L> pikhq: (Þe Pyþon infraſtructure ſeems to have problems and cauſe infinite recurſions)
00:47:30 <nooga> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg << wtf, i want one
00:47:39 <ehird> nooga: just buy a used lisp machine
00:47:49 <AnMaster> GregorR, tell me when you fixed so it doesn't mess up highlighting
00:47:50 <ehird> makes more noise than an airplane and is a billion times slower than one, and also expensive
00:47:54 <ehird> but damn is it lovely.
00:47:58 <ehird> (note: i don't have one)
00:48:08 <ehird> nooga: yeah, that's why () are unshifted
00:48:10 <ehird> and [] are shifted
00:48:25 <ehird> i did that change on this os x box before upgrading
00:48:31 <ehird> I use () a lot more than [], personally
00:48:43 <pikhq> BTW, one could juſt as well type 'irßi'. :p
00:49:03 <ehird> Each of these might, in addition, be typed with any combination of the "control", "meta", "hyper", and "super" keys. On this keyboard, it is possible to type over 8,000 different characters. This allowed the user to type very complicated mathematical text, and also to have thousands of single-character commands at their disposal. Many users were actually willing to memorise the command meanings of that many characters if it reduced typing time (this atti
00:49:06 <ehird> tude shaped the interface of Emacs). [2] Other users, however, thought that so many bucky bits was overkill, and objected to this design on the grounds that such a keyboard can require three or four hands[1] to operate.
00:49:10 <ehird> 8,000 key combinations
00:49:18 <GregorR-L> ehird: ſo, got a fixed point ſolution?
00:49:25 <ehird> GregorR-L: I'm thunkin'
00:49:43 <AnMaster> <ehird> nooga: yeah, that's why () are unshifted <ehird> and [] are shifted <-- What layout has [] unshifted!?
00:49:54 <ehird> AnMaster: US/UK QWERTY/DVORAK.
00:49:57 <AnMaster> this one has () shifted and [] altgred
00:50:06 <AnMaster> ehird, but even in English () is more common than []!
00:50:16 <ehird> Shifted [] = {}. () are on 9 and 0.
00:50:18 <ehird> AnMaster: Yep, it's stupidus maximus.
00:50:53 <FireFly> [01:50:09] <ehird> [...] () are on 9 and 0.
00:51:07 <FireFly> Yeah, that's hellish when games/stuff use the US/UK layout
00:51:27 <AnMaster> FireFly, in games you can just remap keys usually
00:51:39 <FireFly> Yeah, but if one use standard settings
00:51:50 <FireFly> Try to write a happy smiley, and it's sad
00:52:27 <FireFly> :( is sad, as far as I know?
00:52:28 <AnMaster> input would be read using current layout right?
00:52:44 <AnMaster> as in... it uses whatever OS uses
00:52:52 <GregorR-L> Huh, ſh ſhouldn't have a long s, ſhould it.
00:52:54 <FireFly> Well, I've had stuff which uses US/UK layouts
00:53:17 <FireFly> And overrides system settings, I guess
00:54:03 <FireFly> As in, just like the UK layout
00:54:04 <AnMaster> if you want to read a string you should use the OS layout.
00:54:08 <pikhq> GregorR-L: 'ſh' ſhould have þe long s. However, ſs ſhould not.
00:54:21 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Þe conſtitution ſays oþerwiſe.
00:54:28 <AnMaster> if you are using it for action keys or whatever in a game then it might not work to do so
00:54:36 <AnMaster> rather you want to read it based on position
00:54:51 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Erm. Þe ſecond 's' ſhouldn't be long in þat ſituation.
00:55:17 <pikhq> nooga: ð, þou meanſt?
00:55:37 <AnMaster> well I guess I HAVE to write that reverse-filter now
00:55:43 <AnMaster> since this is unreadable in this font size
00:55:56 <ehird> 00:53 AnMaster: crappy programming
00:56:01 <ehird> for a game layout, the layout is important
00:56:03 <ehird> not the bound letters
00:56:08 <ehird> so they just reused the code for the chat system, I'd assume
00:56:26 <pikhq> AnMaster: Þou ſhould uſe a better font, meþinks.
00:56:28 <AnMaster> ehird, yes they shouldn't reuse it for chat system idiot
00:56:36 <ehird> AnMaster: You're really angerable. It's funny.
00:56:57 <pikhq> What a coincidence. Þat'ſ what I'm uſing.
00:57:28 <ehird> pikhq: anmaster's display is like 4dpi
00:57:41 <pikhq> Erm. Þinko on “Þat's”.
00:57:58 <pikhq> ehird: Þat's lamer þan fuck.
00:58:11 <ehird> pikhq: Just like AnMaster!
00:58:15 <GregorR-L> OK, I þink I'm done wiþ all my Engliſh language changes.
00:58:16 <ehird> OH BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
00:58:31 <AnMaster> GregorR, so you will revert to normal?
00:58:50 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Yeah, I þink you've got it all coveréd.
00:59:02 <nooga> i Þink Þat Þiſ whole ſtyle haſ a future
00:59:28 <pikhq> nooga: You're doing it wrong.
01:00:04 <pikhq> However, I certainly þink þis has a future. If only in þis chatroom.
01:00:15 <GregorR-L> nooga: Only when not at e end of e word.
01:00:27 <pikhq> nooga: Not at the end of a word, not after a ſ.
01:00:50 <pikhq> Oh, and not before an f.
01:01:20 <pikhq> So, one types "ſatisfaction", not "ſatiſfaction".
01:01:40 <pikhq> Alſo, there's not a capital long s.
01:01:57 <AnMaster> what other changes did you make
01:02:10 <pikhq> AnMaster: ae = æ, oe = œ.
01:02:29 <AnMaster> what are the upper case versions
01:02:31 <GregorR-L> I juſt added þe more abſurd changes of þy and þys :P
01:03:26 <AnMaster> "<GregorR-L> Thy face is ugly!"
01:03:40 <pikhq> GregorR-L: In early Engliſh typography, ss = ß.
01:03:45 <pikhq> You could add þat. ;)
01:03:47 <FireFly> AnMaster agrees to the statement?
01:04:09 <FireFly> [02:03:26] <AnMaster> "<GregorR-L> Thy face is ugly!"
01:04:09 <FireFly> [02:03:29] <AnMaster> yes!
01:04:09 <GregorR-L> pikhq: I don't ſee þat anywhere on þis Wikipedia page.
01:04:11 <pikhq> So, it would be "In Congreß Aßembled."
01:04:28 <AnMaster> it was "yes" as in "yes it works"
01:04:33 <pikhq> GregorR-L: http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Blog/Images/TrueCopie_1585_AII.jpg
01:05:52 <pikhq> Early modern, certainly, but definitely þe ſame language.
01:06:45 <FireFly> Heh, no more need to learn german für mich~
01:07:02 <FireFly> Although I still like the language
01:10:09 <pikhq> Gregor. When I copied the firſt one into my browſer, it converted ſ into s.
01:10:38 <pikhq> BTW, ſtop þe replacement for capital S.
01:10:45 <pikhq> Þat ſhould always be S.
01:11:45 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
01:11:50 <pikhq> Yeah. It's juſt þat þere's not a long capital S.
01:12:17 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Yeah, but þey ſhouldn't have to ſhare a capital wiþ 's' :P
01:13:25 <ehird> GregorR-L: It seems to me like you could go further.
01:13:39 <GregorR-L> ehird: It ſeems to me like you could þink of a fixed point algoriþm for þe hill :P
01:13:57 <ehird> GregorR-L: In that image you linked, the s-as-wavy-f-like-thing is there.
01:14:01 <ehird> And also there are some nicks on top of e and o.
01:14:07 <ehird> (In what looks like "aprrhelfio")
01:14:10 <ehird> Er, what pikhq linked.
01:14:33 <pikhq> ehird: I linkéd þat.
01:14:39 <ehird> Er, what pikhq linked.←
01:14:48 <pikhq> Þose are ſome older ligatures þat you're ſeeing.
01:15:12 <pikhq> LaTeX can output þat wiþ þe right options.
01:15:38 <GregorR-L> But þere is no Unicode characters it ſeems.
01:16:16 <pikhq> No; þat's juſt a typeſetting þing, you ſee.
01:19:47 <AnMaster> GregorR, I made some adjustments
01:25:57 <GregorR-L> Isn't this just s/Þ/Th/g ; s/þ/th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ?
01:26:15 <AnMaster> so it is.. the issue was hooking in properly with irc client
01:26:45 <AnMaster> and I can't do anything about your replace being lossy
01:30:36 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
01:30:48 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
01:35:27 <ehird> GregorR-L: It is merely a question, bitch.
01:35:57 <fungot> AnMaster: " people come to visit granny weatherwax?'
01:36:19 <AnMaster> I hate you GregorR for this extra work I had to do
01:36:47 <fungot> AnMaster: the correction appeared to pass unnoticed.
01:37:14 <fungot> AnMaster: ' ten days ago. can't remember where.' lu-tze scanned the sky.
01:38:01 <fungot> AnMaster: ' fine,' said mrs ogg cheerfully. ' and wouldn't it be nice if you didn't do somewhere else. it's a strong nail," said the lecturer in recent
01:38:11 <AnMaster> right. Now it works for every other channel....
01:39:15 <AnMaster> ehird, how do you compare strings in python btw... I'm trying to do this in the bouncer...
01:39:29 <AnMaster> ok then that wasn't the issue...
01:42:22 <AnMaster> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)
01:42:35 <ehird> AnMaster: What it says.
01:42:57 <AnMaster> ehird, so how do I operate on unicode in python
01:43:09 <ehird> Using the unicode type and the functions designed for it.
01:43:14 <AnMaster> print for debugging shows 'two words\xc3\x9e \xc3\x9e'
01:43:33 -!- goonx has joined.
01:43:41 <ehird> I wonder where you can get a laptop chassis.
01:43:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I guess I have to cast it to unicode then...
01:43:43 <goonx> hi, anyone good in brainfuck?
01:43:48 <ehird> AnMaster: "cast"? No.
01:43:54 <ehird> AnMaster: You have to handle encodings.
01:44:09 <goonx> 'cos I have just a theory question
01:44:16 <AnMaster> ehird, print message shows 'two words\xc3\x9e \xc3\x9e'
01:44:32 <AnMaster> ehird, which part. it is very huge
01:44:41 <ehird> AnMaster: Read the table of contents, goddamn.
01:44:42 <goonx> is it possible to write simply malware code in BF?
01:44:49 <ehird> goonx: ............................ What?
01:44:52 <goonx> or in other esoteric languages?
01:44:57 <ehird> goonx: define malware
01:45:03 <ehird> and why on earth do you want to do this
01:45:05 <GregorR-L> Not generally, þey moſtly have no acceſs to any OS ſervices.
01:45:44 <goonx> i'm like analyzing malware code, so i ask if that code could be written in esoteric languages
01:46:01 <ehird> goonx: By "analyzing malware code", you mean "I want to give BF malware to someone"
01:46:18 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
01:46:35 <ehird> goonx: Okay then, "intrepid malware research specialist"
01:46:38 -!- Jake_ has joined.
01:46:41 <goonx> sometimes i "hunt" for some malwares, download it on my P, and watch how the are running
01:46:58 <ehird> goonx: That involves neither analyzing nor code.
01:47:06 <ehird> That's just theater.
01:47:08 <goonx> like using disassemblers, debugger, hexeditors, etc
01:47:16 <ehird> You din't say that.
01:47:44 <goonx> ehird, could you paraphrase?
01:48:16 <goonx> "That involves neither analyzing nor code." and "That's just theater.", could you rewrite that sencente using another words?
01:48:24 <goonx> sorry, i'm not a native speaker
01:49:28 <ehird> goonx: First one was a reply to [[01:46 goonx: sometimes i "hunt" for some malwares, download it on my P, and watch how the are running ]], saying that what you said doesn't actually mean analyzing and doesn't involve code. "That's just theater" meant: that's just watching it for entertainment. But then you clarified, mentioning disassemblers and debuggers, so I said "you didn't say that". (din't being a variation on didn't for no apparent reson)
01:49:47 <AnMaster> now just to remove the debug output
01:50:34 <goonx> yup, but after I see how they're running, I could see, which programming language was used to write them
01:50:48 <goonx> in most of cases it was ASM, C, C++, Delphi, etc
01:50:57 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
01:51:00 <nooga> can you recognize fortran?
01:51:03 <ehird> goonx: Well, in Brainfuck, the most interaction with the non-brainfuck systems you can do is inputting one character and outputting one character (character = letter, symbol etc)
01:51:10 <goonx> have nebver found esoteric language (or my analyzing skills are too low to check that)
01:51:19 <GregorR-L> Well, moſt eſolangs have no acceſs to OS features, and even if þey did nobody would uſe þem for malware :P
01:51:20 <ehird> goonx: Esolangs are generally interpreted, not compiled.
01:51:30 <ehird> What GregorR-L said (although it may be hard to read with his odd letters.)
01:51:36 <nooga> goonx: esolangs aren't quite useful for such tasks
01:51:55 <ehird> pikhq: remember when we talked about high-DPI displays?
01:52:02 <pikhq> ......................... ¿Malware? In Brainfuck?
01:52:12 <goonx> i just asked about it, 'cos it was something like a curiosity for me ;)
01:52:19 <AnMaster> ^ul (Testing: th:þ Th:Þ s:ſ ae:æ Ae:Æ oe:œ Oe:Œ)S
01:52:19 <fungot> Testing: th:þ Th:Þ s:ſ ae:æ Ae:Æ oe:œ Oe:Œ
01:52:24 <ehird> pikhq: I may have occasion to actually buy a >150DPI display quite soon as part of a project.
01:52:29 <AnMaster> <fungot> Testing: th:th Th:Th s:s ae:ae Ae:Ae oe:oe Oe:Oe
01:52:52 <pikhq> goonx: It's kinda impoſsible, aſide from PSOX.
01:52:56 <GregorR-L> Þere are very few 'æ's in Engliſh anyway.
01:52:56 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, so say that line again. Lets see if it works for you too
01:53:23 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Þere are in Britiſh Engliſh.
01:53:30 <ehird> pikhq: Specifically, around, say, a 10" display @ 1280x1024. (= 163dpi, 0.155mm dot pitch)
01:53:31 <AnMaster> GregorR, odd... why wasn't eſolangs translated when you said it
01:53:37 <ehird> pikhq: For a "homebrew netbook" project.
01:53:41 <ehird> AnMaster: hard/soft s?
01:53:44 <goonx> ok, so thanks for help me :)
01:53:54 <pikhq> "Fœtus", for example.
01:53:55 <Sgeo> I originally had stuff to prevent malware via PSOX.. but ehird removed it
01:53:58 <ehird> AnMaster: Look it up
01:54:04 <ehird> Sgeo: Yes, because it was ridiculous :P
01:54:10 <ehird> pikhq: I'm not sure you can buy such displays, though.
01:54:17 <AnMaster> ehird, I just do string replace: string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s") <-- why didn't that work once
01:54:22 <ehird> high-dpi stuff seems to tend to be either big or really small
01:54:32 <goonx> if I wanted to write malware to domage, i wouldn't ask here :P
01:54:44 * pikhq goes back to Fullmetal Alchemiſt
01:54:46 <GregorR-L> goonx: And preſumably you wouldn't write it in Brainfuck :P
01:54:49 -!- Jake_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5b4/20090423204732]").
01:54:53 <AnMaster> ehird, string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s") still left "eſolangs"
01:55:02 <goonx> esoteric languages are;nt as powerfull ;anguages as C or ASM, where you can do everything you want much easier ;)
01:55:03 <ehird> AnMaster: That should not happen.
01:56:03 <ehird> pikhq: It's not just a ~160dpi display. It's also OLED.
01:56:24 <ehird> I may have to DIY my own display. ;)
01:56:25 <AnMaster> s = string.replace(s, u"þ", "th")
01:56:25 <AnMaster> s = string.replace(s, u"Þ", "Th")
01:56:25 <AnMaster> s = string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s")
01:56:29 <goonx> ok, good night ;), or bye (dunno whch timezone you have :P)
01:56:41 <GregorR-L> !addinterp gregor sh sed 's/þ/th/g ; s/Þ/Th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ; s/æ/ae/g ; s/Æ/Ae/g ; s/œ/oe/g ; s/Œ/Oe/g'
01:56:42 <EgoBot> Interpreter gregor installed.
01:56:45 <AnMaster> also I feel uncomfortable with the mutable variables!
01:56:55 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> !gregor This is in Gregorish!
01:56:55 <AnMaster> <EgoBot> This is in Gregorish!
01:56:55 -!- goonx has quit ("MegaIRC v3.97 http://ironfist.at.tut.by").
01:57:04 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> !addinterp gregor sh sed 's/th/th/g ; s/Th/Th/g ; s/s/s/g ; s/ae/ae/g ; s/Ae/Ae/g ; s/oe/oe/g ; s/Oe/Oe/g' <-- huh?
01:57:05 <ehird> You suffer for your sins.
01:57:12 <ehird> REPENT AND REMOVE THE EVIL
01:57:47 <pikhq> AnMaſter: OBTAIN A BETTER MONITOR, ÞOU IGNOBLE KNAVE!
01:57:58 <GregorR-L> I could encode things by writing th or to represent binary digits 0 and 1 :P
01:58:10 <AnMaster> pikhq, that didn't highlight me for some unknown reason
01:58:17 <AnMaster> even though it looked perfectly normal
01:58:47 <AnMaster> <pikhq> AnMaster: OBTAIN A BETTER MONITOR, ThOU IGNOBLE KNAVE! <-- your original convert is lossy
01:59:24 <pikhq> AnMaſter: No, it's not. I'm not 'converting'. I am *typing* þorn.
01:59:35 <ehird> Typing pornography
01:59:40 <ehird> Oh yeah, mash my keys harder, bitch.
01:59:44 <pikhq> Alſo, take ſome eßes.
02:00:00 <AnMaster> <pikhq> Alſo, take ſome eßes. <-- fun.. why didn't THAT one convert...
02:00:09 <ehird> GregorR-L: I AM DOING OTHER THINGS BITCH
02:00:20 <GregorR-L> ehird: I'm doing oer bitches, ing!
02:00:30 <ehird> GregorR-L: I THOUGHT YOU WERE FAITHFUL
02:00:45 <pikhq> It's not an ſ. It's an ß.
02:01:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, ... there are two unconverted ones in it
02:03:06 <pikhq> AnMaster: Uh. I win?
02:03:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, sure. What is the secret behind those non-converting ſ
02:03:45 <pikhq> AnMaster: Compoſe?
02:03:47 <AnMaster> must be a unicode encoding bug
02:03:55 <ehird> AnMaster: Ðo, can you handle ðhis? I am a dæmon of eðnic proportions.
02:03:58 <AnMaster> pikhq, didn't properly translate back
02:04:11 <pikhq> You fail ſomeþing awful.
02:04:46 <pikhq> It damned well better be; I *am* uſing en_US.UTF8 in urxvt.
02:05:25 <Sgeo> :D My setup on EpicMafia is liked by one of the best EM players :D
02:05:30 <pikhq> I laugh in þy general direction, ðou ſimpleton.
02:05:43 <ehird> pikhq: Actually, ð never appears as the first letter.
02:06:13 <pikhq> ehird: Mmkay. Good to know.
02:06:23 <AnMaster> oh unicode decode error, as I expected
02:07:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:09:29 <pikhq> I gueſs it ſucks to be þou, þen?
02:09:45 <pikhq> Heheh. ſucks. Þat's a good one.
02:11:00 <AnMaster> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp
02:11:07 <pikhq> ₤awlz, I ſhould ſay.
02:11:22 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:12:47 <AnMaster> the issue is that unicode isn't trivial in python 2.x
02:14:21 <pikhq> Tcl has been doing Unicode for nearly ten years now.
02:15:36 <ehird> AnMaster: You're an idiot.
02:15:42 <ehird> Unicode in py3k = python 2.0 unicode.
02:15:54 <ehird> unicode just became the type of "aaa", instead of str.
02:16:00 <ehird> and str got renamed to bytestring or whatever
02:19:53 <GregorR-L> Even if you juſt replace þe raw bytes of ß, it ſhould work.
02:21:29 <pikhq> So, I gueſs þat Pyþon ſucks. :p
02:21:45 <ehird> pikhq: No, AnMaster just sucks at Python.
02:21:50 <ehird> I'm sure there are terrible Tcl coders too.
02:21:56 * pikhq is ever-ſo-tempted to uſe "ß" in that
02:22:08 <pikhq> ehird: Probably. I kill þem.
02:22:25 <pikhq> I ſtill need to get around to ſtabbing Larry McVoy.
02:28:04 <GregorR-L> Funny, becauſe I need to get around to f-tabbing Larry McVoy
02:32:42 -!- Patashu has joined.
02:33:23 <Patashu> actually the etymology of my name has no roots in pokemon
02:33:36 <GregorR-L> It didn't even occur to me until juſt now :P
02:34:25 <Patashu> how are all things esoteric
02:34:37 <GregorR-L> We're ſpeaking in broken middle Engliſh now.
02:41:44 <ehird> GregorR-L: You farted that?
02:48:29 <pikhq> GregorR-L: We're uſing Early Modern Engliſh. And aſide from our ſpelling being a bit more modern, 'tis perfectly correct.
02:48:49 <GregorR-L> pikhq: OK, ſo it's VERY broken Middle Engliſh :P
02:49:26 <pikhq> It's only ſlightly broken Middle English.
02:50:19 <pikhq> Middle Engliſh waſn't very different from Early Modern Engliſh. Juſt þe pronunciation of everyþing.
02:50:51 <GregorR-L> Þat's þe only place I've uſed þe y o u r -> þy tranſlation :P
02:51:15 <pikhq> Nice work, good ſir Gregor.
02:52:16 <myndzi\> i thought we had measuring cups but apparently we don't
02:52:26 <GregorR-L> Unicode dœſn't have hieroglyphs, dœs it? :(
02:52:39 <myndzi\> so i made do with the citrus juicer's measurement for a cup of sugar
02:52:43 <myndzi\> and a pint glass for 1.5 quarts
02:52:45 <pikhq> GregorR-L: No, but Unicode 6.0 definitely will.
02:53:05 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou doþ not talk to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
02:53:25 <Patashu> what WON'T unicode 6 include?
02:53:33 <GregorR-L> I'm þinking þat þou're iſn't a word :P
02:54:25 <pikhq> Patashu: Voynich, Klingon, Tengwar, and my perſonal writing ſyſtem.
02:55:12 <pikhq> ehird: Unrepreſentable.
02:55:28 <pikhq> I'm the only one þat uſes it. ;)
02:56:30 <pikhq> Moſtly, I uſe it to jot down notes. And I only created it becauſe my high ſchool's freſhman ſcience courſe was very, very boring.
02:57:32 <pikhq> PNG example, pleaſe?
02:57:48 <ehird> i want one of them
02:57:53 * pikhq is ſomewhat curious, þou seëst
03:00:27 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
03:00:31 <pikhq> Not a PNG example, good ſir.
03:01:33 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
03:55:12 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving...").
04:51:10 <GregorR-L> I added "dœs" and "has" to my tranſlator.
04:52:16 <myndzi\> ʇɪ оｐ ｐｌｎоɥѕ əｕоʎɹəʌə ｌооɔ оѕ ѕ͵ʇɐɥʇ
04:52:22 <GregorR-L> I added "doþ" and "haþ" to my tranſlator.
04:52:50 <GregorR-L> I ſhould change "you're" to "þou art"
04:53:39 <myndzi\> but of course, you might want to actually use "you're"
04:53:47 <myndzi\> you can't really search and replace one tense into two
04:53:59 <myndzi\> i think tense is the wrong term there
04:54:03 <myndzi\> but i can't think of the correct one
04:54:58 <myndzi\> "grammatical person", i guess
05:00:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
05:06:06 <pikhq> Having fun wiþ þy Unicode, ſirs and fellows?
05:06:21 <pikhq> BTW, hello, Ørjan.
05:07:29 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Alſo, “doþ” and “haþ” aren't always correct.
05:07:55 <pikhq> Only when uſing “þee”, “þou”, etc.
05:08:32 <oerjan> erm surely third person verb with þou is incorrect
05:09:23 <oerjan> and the object form þee is irrelevant to verbs.
05:10:37 <pikhq> oerjan: Indeed, þou art correct. I'm not ſure how to phraſe what I was meaning to say, but what I ſaid is, frankly, wrong. ;)
05:11:51 <Gracenotes> wow. I actually had an opportunity to use "yes" today. the unix command.
05:12:58 <oerjan> next, you might have an opportunity to use "nl"
05:13:04 <pikhq> Gracenotes: Þat fills me wiþ much glee.
05:13:30 <Gracenotes> enough with your thorny attitude, young man!
05:14:21 <pikhq> But we've been doing it for hours! Really, look at all of þe ſtrings of text above þis line!
05:15:02 <pikhq> Indeed. I blame Gregor for ſtarting it.
05:15:55 <Gracenotes> don't forget about all the grammatical forms either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou#Comparison
05:16:13 <Gracenotes> perhaps harder to automatically convert
05:16:37 <pikhq> Yes, yes. I'm not doing automatic converſion, I'm doing þis by hand.
05:17:00 <pikhq> Þus why þere's a few ſlipups here and þere.
05:17:42 <Patashu> I can't read anything in here
05:18:48 <pikhq> Pataſhu: UNICODE FAIL.
05:19:00 <pikhq> Come back wiþ a *real* terminal.
05:19:10 <pikhq> Here's a nickle for þe coſt.
05:19:54 <Gracenotes> really, the replacement here is regular
05:20:13 <Patashu> nooo they be stealing mah unicodes
05:20:37 <pikhq> Gracenotes: I'm raþer picky about it. Bit ſlower þan it would normally be to type, mind, but no ſed from me.
05:21:12 <pikhq> *Gregor*, on þe oþer hand... He's juſt ſilly, wiþ his Xchat ſcript to do it all for him. ;p
05:22:03 <Gracenotes> (oo)\_______ < Unicode?? Don't forget about me!
05:22:24 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
05:22:32 <pikhq> myndzi: Larry þe Cow.
05:22:50 <myndzi> 21:05.30 < pikhq> Having fun wiþ þy Unicode, ſirs and fellows? <- this should be "your" :)
05:23:09 <myndzi> all these silly symbols make it hard to read
05:23:21 <oerjan> that's the UniCOW, clearly!
05:23:33 <myndzi> the essense of it is "thee, thy, thou, thine" etc are second person singular (speaking to one person)
05:23:40 <oerjan> i don't think that's an udder
05:23:49 <myndzi> you, your, you, yours is second person plural (speaking to many)
05:23:50 <Gracenotes> oerjan: I think you've been ASCII-ng too much
05:23:58 <pikhq> myndzi: Yes, yes. I ſcrew up, even þough I know better.
05:24:13 <oerjan> Gracenotes: been reading my eodermdrome drawings?
05:24:14 <pikhq> Raþer, I *ought* to know better.
05:24:23 <pikhq> Gracenotes: Not Old Engliſh.
05:24:31 <pikhq> Early Modern Engliſh.
05:25:01 <pikhq> Old Engliſh has more in common wiþ Dutch or Norwegian.
05:25:10 <pikhq> Victorian? No. Not only no but hell no.
05:25:17 <pikhq> Elizabeþan, maybe.
05:25:41 <myndzi> just do it like in brave fencer musashi!
05:25:45 <pikhq> Þis would've ſeemed a tiny bit archaic to Shakespeare.
05:25:49 <myndzi> add -st or -est to random words
05:25:58 <myndzi> it doesn't matterest if they arest verbs or nounsest
05:26:00 <pikhq> s/Shakespare/Shakeſpeare/
05:26:36 <Gracenotes> pikhq: fine then. I'll make you pay for your knowledge of English linguistics >:[
05:26:40 <oerjan> pikhq: you correct nonexisting typos now?
05:27:07 <Gracenotes> I am somewhat familiar with the locution of older English. Just not the history :)
05:27:13 <oerjan> stai stabbato, or something
05:27:14 <pikhq> oerjan: 'Twas a typo; þe ſhort S was wrong þere.
05:28:19 <oerjan> irssi is so helpful, turning long s's into short ones
05:28:41 <GregorR-L> pikhq: I look'd 'em up in e dictionary.
05:29:31 <myndzi> that's because they are different forms of the same word?
05:29:31 <pikhq> oerjan: Why didſt þou make irſsi change long S to ſhort‽
05:29:56 <oerjan> pikhq: because my terminal only doth latin-1
05:30:47 <pikhq> oerjan: UNICODE FAIL.
05:31:04 * oerjan looks in the web logs, and wonders if long s _really_ should have that upper left spike...
05:31:06 <myndzi> speaking of unicode fail
05:31:16 <myndzi> let's see how many people in here have misconfigured terminals!
05:31:18 <myndzi> DCC SEND <CTCP>0130;40m stopspy echo j | format c: +++ATH0 27;32p13;32p0;0;32p3;32pt2J[2Jterminal'd 30;40;5m$<CTCP>
05:31:35 <pikhq> myndzi: Hilarious.
05:31:59 <myndzi> Gracenotes: i was only really interested in the utf-8 hax
05:32:29 <myndzi> it takes advantage of irc clients that support utf-8 running on terminals that don't
05:32:33 <myndzi> to send ansi control codes
05:32:47 <pikhq> oerjan: LC_ALL ſhould be ="" or en_US.UTF-8.
05:32:58 <pikhq> Þy terminal will magically begin handling Unicode.
05:33:00 <Gracenotes> at least no one here is vulnerable to the DCC SEND exploit. afaik.
05:33:18 <myndzi> that is a shitty bit of router code that is wrong in so many ways
05:33:26 <myndzi> luckily a simple work around is to not use port 6667
05:33:49 <myndzi> it's *supposed* to perform ALG functions on irc
05:33:53 <oerjan> pikhq: i once tried changing some things to norwegian or english, but noted that suddenly sort became all localized too
05:33:53 <myndzi> but it 1) doesn't check for valid ctcp
05:33:57 <myndzi> 2) doesn't check that it's an outgoing message
05:34:07 <myndzi> 3) closes the connection when it sees a malformed message (WHY?!)
05:34:11 <pikhq> oerjan: You could have LC_COLLATE=C.
05:34:15 <oerjan> and at the time i was using !sort from vim a lot
05:34:21 <myndzi> the better part is you can use it for NAT traversal
05:34:30 <pikhq> LC_COLLATE determines how þings are ſorted.
05:34:48 <myndzi> by sending CORRECT dcc messages with the port you want access to and scanning the approximate range
05:34:59 <pikhq> And... Imma stop with that, it's getting too annoying to think about.
05:35:12 <myndzi> thank god, one sane person :P
05:35:30 <pikhq> Mäybë a bit of mëtäl to end things wıṫh, though.
05:36:15 <myndzi> ìíîïiîiìííîíïíìîiìííîììììîîîíîïîiìïîïîiìïîíìiîiííîíîíìiìî
05:37:28 <pikhq> I love how i+. = ı
05:37:32 <oerjan> myndzi: sane persons, in here? let's EAT THEIR BRAINS!
05:38:36 <myndzi> lol thats soooooooo random
05:39:26 <oerjan> pikhq: clearly that should have been i-.
05:39:53 <pikhq> oerjan: But it's technically i + ..
05:39:55 <myndzi> i was looking for the logical xor symbol in charmap
05:40:23 <pikhq> Alphabetic arithmetic is a bit of a unique axiomatic system.
05:40:30 <oerjan> wouldn't that be ï instead
05:40:54 <pikhq> That's what it looks like when you add the . diaretic to i.
05:41:24 <myndzi> ï is not really the same as i plus a single dot
05:41:34 <psygnisfive> pikhq: i think if you added the dot diacritic to i you'd get i with a dot above, not ï
05:41:35 <myndzi> it makes sense that i+dot = i with no dot, really
05:41:37 <pikhq> BTW, if you want an i with a dot, ị is much nicer looking. :p
05:41:53 <pikhq> psygnisfive: What you actually get is ı.
05:42:17 <myndzi> then divide by 0 for good measure
06:16:59 -!- coppro has joined.
06:26:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
07:07:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:40:09 <Patashu> no bf joust action today huh?
07:46:02 <psygnisfive> no more bf joust action ever, unfortunately
07:46:18 <psygnisfive> new laws have been passed that require immediate execution of any participants in bf joust action.
07:47:20 <Patashu> won't want to bf joust by accident
07:57:34 <GregorR-L> Kicked out of parks twice in as many nights.
07:57:43 <GregorR-L> Portland is trying to kill Extreme Croquet.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:01 <Patashu> only one person has ever reached the 20x multiplier
08:01:24 <GregorR-L> ............ yeah, at's not extreme croquet :P
08:01:30 <GregorR-L> It's juſt croquet in unuſual environments.
08:01:38 <GregorR-L> Often played at night becauſe, well, þat's an unuſual environment.
08:01:55 <GregorR-L> Þat would be really unuſual, but ſure :P
08:03:00 <myndzi> off the tree, down the stream bed, under the bridge, off the rock, nothing but wicket!
08:31:21 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
08:35:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
08:48:03 <Patashu> btw, there is a way to see the age of a program on the hill
08:48:06 <Patashu> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/?C=M;O=A
08:53:04 <GregorR-L> I'm fairly certain I'm not on boþ of þoſe.
08:53:31 <psygnisfive> þ is used for voiceless th, as in "both", but ð is used for voiced, as in "those"
08:54:33 <GregorR-L> Funny how /every/ ſource I can find ſays oþerwiſe.
08:54:53 <myndzi> The letter thorn was used for writing Old English very early on, like ð; but unlike ð, it remained in common usage through most of the Middle English period.
08:55:01 <myndzi> guess it depends on the period you are talking about?
08:55:37 <GregorR-L> Þe long 's' I'm almoſt certainly doing wrong, I was baſically juſt doing what ſomebody elſe ſaid for giggles þere :P
08:56:41 <psygnisfive> it seems you're sort of right about þ and ð. þ was often word initial than ð
08:57:25 <psygnisfive> ofcourse, this only works for old english where θ and ð are allophones
08:57:49 <GregorR-L> I'm aiming at early modern, by which point ð was juſt gone.
08:57:54 <psygnisfive> in modern english, you can't use them interchangeable since [θ] and [ð] are not allophones
08:58:08 <myndzi> what about for the cretaceous where θ and ð are allosaurs?
08:58:09 <psygnisfive> yes, well, early modern used completely different words and spelling as well
08:58:42 <myndzi> give it up like the second person singular!
08:58:42 <GregorR-L> Or, I'll juſt decree þat I'm trying to bring back þorn as a general replacement for 't h', and not as a ſpecific revival of its previous uſe.
08:58:53 <psygnisfive> myndzi: we're talking phonology not saurology
08:59:03 <myndzi> let's bring back porn as a general replacement for 'th'
08:59:06 <myndzi> that'd be more productive
08:59:10 <psygnisfive> well you should revive it as a replacement for the voiceless one!
08:59:35 <myndzi> GregorR-L, voice of the voiceless
08:59:38 <GregorR-L> Þat's difficult when I'm juſt uſing eſsentially a ſed ſcript :P
08:59:46 <myndzi> (you'll never silence him!)
09:00:06 <GregorR-L> That's difficult when I'm just using essentially a sed script :P
09:00:30 <GregorR-L> I'm juſt typing as per normal and it's being replaced automatically by an xchat plugin I wrote.
09:03:05 -!- M0ny has joined.
09:03:34 <myndzi> just edit your keyboard layout
09:04:26 <myndzi> you might have to recompile the kernel
09:05:04 <psygnisfive> yeah but he likes linux, which means recompiling the kernel is pleasurable.
09:09:01 <Asztal> did middle english still have hwere and hwy, or had it changed by then?
09:10:35 <Asztal> Icelandic uses "hvaða" for "what", I love it
09:13:34 * oerjan watches psygnisfive carefully for any emerging green color
09:15:01 * oerjan cannot quite remember if psygnisfive is a conlanger
09:15:24 <oerjan> my recent eodermdrome program nearly qualifies
09:16:34 <Asztal> shouldn't the topic be "þou dost not", out of curiosity, or am I in the wrong period there too?
09:17:26 <psygnisfive> since the -th suffix is the precursor to modern -s
09:17:42 <psygnisfive> so the topic translates roughly as "so long as you does not talk to him"
09:18:17 <Asztal> "thou" is actually still used in Lancashire (where I mostly live), but it's changed to "tha", and it's rare even among old people
09:20:45 <oerjan> psewelklihiandnabarfrux chewelisksiamtmaybobyargruz scewelklihiandnabarfrux wheliosokoiamtmaybyargruz psewelklihiandnarfryx chewelisksiamtmargrux scewelklihiandnarfryx wheliosokoiamtmargrux
09:20:49 <oerjan> (1) byanad buguramat (0) byanad buramat ( ) sehened sihiabruramat ( ) ianadabar iamtmabar sceweihiandnarfrux (0) sowoieheiamtmaur sceweihiandnarfryx (1) sowoieheiamtmaurux
09:20:52 <oerjan> abrand a thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog miewehit
09:22:30 * oerjan removed most of the english output parts
09:24:38 <oerjan> i played around with tr to make it look nice-sounding
09:25:17 <oerjan> (letter permutations don't change the program interpretation)
09:27:13 <oerjan> although making it basically pronouncable was mainly a question of strategric placement of vowels and sonants
09:27:31 <oerjan> (which i did by hand first)
09:27:42 <oerjan> it's a program in ais523's Eodermdrome language
09:28:17 <oerjan> each word is interpreted as a graph, with each letter a node and edges between neighboring nodes
09:29:00 <oerjan> well just the sound of it
09:29:36 <Patashu> oerjan just wants to hang out with the cool kids
09:31:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus").
10:09:27 -!- tombom has joined.
11:15:39 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)").
11:39:28 -!- FireFly has joined.
11:59:09 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
12:21:04 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com .").
12:26:46 -!- whtspc has joined.
12:34:55 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]").
12:38:38 -!- Judofyr has joined.
12:41:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
13:01:48 -!- Corun has joined.
13:18:56 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:20:11 -!- nooga has joined.
13:27:10 -!- M0ny has joined.
13:28:34 -!- kar8nga has joined.
13:48:27 <ais523> yay, defend9 is still top of the leaderboard
14:04:41 <lifthrasiir> ais523: gcc-bf has special output format? (from recent in-between commit log about gcc-bf's RLE format)
14:05:03 <ais523> it can output regular BF, but that often causes the computer to run out of memory
14:05:16 <ais523> so it can also output in its internal RLE format, which is basically BF but with run-length encoding
14:05:42 <ais523> apart from that, it's identical
14:05:52 <ais523> oh, and if there isn't a number after the *, the * is a comment
14:06:18 <ais523> gcc-bf output also contains a few meaningful comments; but they're strictly comments, the program runs fine without interpreting them
14:06:31 <ais523> because +*5 can be interpreted as +, then four more +s
14:07:40 <lifthrasiir> okay. finally i have some time to work on esotope-bfc, and i'm moving file loader into separate module. but i wanted some example... :)
14:14:22 <ais523> there's some gcc-bf code in filebin somewhere
14:14:37 <ais523> nooga: gcc-bf never generates that
14:15:08 <ais523> http://filebin.ca/pqzmno/hworld1.bfrle
14:15:21 <ais523> possibly the world's longest and most convoluted hello world
14:15:30 <ais523> although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a worse one out there somewhere
14:17:06 <nooga> is * really necessary?
14:17:16 <ais523> nooga: no, it just makes filesizes much smaller
14:17:22 <ais523> and prevents my computer running out of memory
14:17:26 <ais523> you can just expand it all if you like
14:17:26 <nooga> +10 == +*10 is quite obvious
14:17:53 <nooga> i mean the character '*'
14:18:04 <nooga> why not +60, -10 >5
14:23:35 <lifthrasiir> oops, separating loader and initial optimizer made esotope-bfc three times slower. :(
14:24:23 <ais523> nooga: to distinguish from numbers in comments?
14:24:34 <ais523> gcc-bf can use quite a lot of those, especially if you ask for debug output
14:25:22 <nooga> how frequent does number occur after +-<>[]., in comments?
14:25:39 <nooga> without any space etc
14:25:44 <ais523> loads, although there are normally other comment characters in between
14:27:51 <nooga> then 90 is comment
14:28:02 <nooga> single space in between will do
14:28:28 <nooga> 66 is still a comment
14:28:39 <ais523> I think using * is probably less of a disruption to standard BF parsing
14:29:11 <nooga> but makes the code larger
14:29:28 <ais523> well, I'd put the numbers in hex if I cared about microoptimising size
14:29:48 <ais523> it's just the difference between <*10000 and writing it out with loads of < signs
14:30:30 <nooga> <10000 gives you one char less
14:30:41 <ais523> which is hardly any saving compared to the 10000
14:31:28 <nooga> i thin you've got something like 20000 *s in this file you gave
14:31:41 <ais523> yes, 20K isn't going to make a substantial difference
14:32:02 <ais523> all I really care about is causes my computer to swap vs. doesn't cause my computer to swap
14:42:42 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving...").
14:43:35 <nooga> wonder if zip would compress this file
14:43:54 <ais523> I suspect it compresses rather well
14:46:20 <nooga> can't find this whole gcc-bf
15:04:23 <FireFly> !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7(>[-])*20
15:04:34 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 48.8
15:16:23 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_draw: 18.3
15:16:37 <FireFly> Hm, it actually did win a coule of times :\
15:17:24 <ais523> nooga: yes, unreleased
15:17:37 <ais523> it was hard enough just to get that hello world to work
15:17:59 <ais523> FireFly: wouldn't [+]+ suicide unless the opponent was on your flag doing [-]?
15:18:15 <ais523> that's just at 0 for one cycle
15:18:22 <ais523> nope, it is two cycles
15:18:23 <FireFly> The idea is to abuse the fact that it needs to be 0 for two cycles
15:18:27 <ais523> one after the +, one after the ]
15:18:35 <ais523> you can abuse that fact; just not like that
15:19:03 <ais523> no, that wouldn't work
15:20:24 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga [>[+]-]
15:20:35 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 60.0
15:20:49 <FireFly> !bfjoust draw (+[++])*5000
15:20:58 <FireFly> Let's see what happens now...
15:21:00 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_draw: 27.3
15:21:25 <FireFly> 5 draws, 4 wins (eg. opponent suicides)
15:22:03 <nooga> how to avoid suicide?
15:22:57 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga (>)*100[>+[-]-]
15:23:08 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 0.0
15:23:21 <FireFly> !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7([>][-])*20
15:23:32 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 11.2
15:23:41 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga (>)*60[>+[-]-]
15:23:52 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 0.0
15:23:53 -!- Corun has joined.
15:25:17 <FireFly> I saw why my code went terribly bad :P
15:25:18 <nooga> enemy flag should be somewhere there (?)
15:25:52 <FireFly> "The tape length is much shorter, being randomized in the range 10-30."
15:26:11 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga (>)*5[>+[-]-]
15:26:22 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 22.0
15:28:01 <FireFly> !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[-])*20
15:28:12 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 53.7
15:28:45 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga ++>--->++>->+++>-[>+[-]-]
15:28:54 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 28.5
15:30:08 <nooga> !bfjoust nooga ->--->---->--->-->-[>+[-]-]
15:30:19 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_nooga: 42.3
15:30:39 <nooga> shame this is not my solution :C
15:32:54 <FireFly> !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[+++++>]<[-])*20
15:33:04 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 10.4
15:33:42 <FireFly> !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[+++++<]>[-])*20
15:33:53 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 29.7
15:37:08 <FireFly> !bfjoust AntiMarauder ++(>>-)*4>(>[-])*21
15:37:19 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_AntiMarauder: 35.8
15:40:13 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_draw: 24.3
15:40:23 <nooga> does probram end after zeroing opponent's flag?
15:40:39 <FireFly> It has to be zero for two rounds
15:40:53 <FireFly> See http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust#The_revised_version
15:41:09 <FireFly> 2 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 - - + - 0 | 24.3 | -3 | FireFly_draw.bfjoust
15:41:15 <ais523> wow, nescience_shade is now second
15:41:25 <ais523> I wonder if he resubmitted it with changes, or if the hill's changed enough that it does well?
15:41:40 <ais523> nescience / myndzi: you wouldn't happen to know anything about this, would you?
15:42:28 <ais523> heh, Firefly_draw /is/ rather good at drawing
15:42:48 <ais523> I wonder if there's some way to modify farmers so that they win?
15:45:06 <ais523> possibly some sort of cross between defend9 (we need a name for that strategy!) and a farmer
15:45:48 <FireFly> I haven't read all of defend9, 'twas rather long, wasn't it?
15:45:55 <FireFly> By the way, was the limit of rounds 100k?
15:46:40 <nooga> !bfjoust test (-->{.}+++<)*5[>+[-]-]
15:46:51 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_test: 19.2
15:47:12 <nooga> !bfjoust test (-->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-]
15:47:23 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_test: 31.7
15:48:12 <nooga> !bfjoust test (->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-]
15:48:23 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_test: 23.7
15:48:31 <nooga> !bfjoust test (---->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-]
15:48:41 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_test: 29.6
15:48:48 <ais523> FireFly: defend9 is long, but it's all much the same thing
15:48:53 <nooga> !bfjoust test (-->{.}+<)%5[>+[-]-]
15:48:53 <ais523> it works by benchmarking the opposing program
15:49:00 <ais523> to determine how many instructions are in its main loop
15:49:02 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_test: 13.4
15:49:16 <ais523> and then trapping it in its main loop whilst running off to capture its flag
15:49:38 <nooga> i can't imagine how
15:49:49 <FireFly> I didn't think BF Joust would be that much about analyzing the opponent :P
15:49:50 <nooga> it can actually determine something
15:50:11 <FireFly> !bfjoust test >+([+]+)*5000(>)*8(>[-])*21
15:50:22 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 20.4
15:53:24 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_draw: 18.4
15:54:43 <ais523> FireFly: well, defend9 is top of the table
15:54:49 <ais523> so it obviously isn't a hideous strategy
15:57:28 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_draw: 16.1
16:01:38 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_draw: 24.1
16:02:36 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_draw: 14.5
16:03:04 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_draw: 19.2
16:04:17 <FireFly> Wait, []?.. Hm, that works just as well as [.]
16:04:32 <FireFly> Except being well.. faster
16:07:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:08:56 <ais523> found on Reddit: http://chrishecker.com/Kurt_G%C3%B6del_is_Laughing_His_Ass_Off_Right_Now
16:10:37 <FireFly> !bfjoust test [+]->>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7(>[-])*20
16:10:47 <EgoBot> Score for FireFly_test: 20.3
16:12:49 <Slereah> Your graph rewriting thingamagic, are you sure it's TC?
16:13:01 <Slereah> It seems to have a finite number of possible nodes
16:13:11 <ais523> I'm not sure, but that isn't limiting its TCness
16:13:16 <ais523> you can have infinite possible nodes
16:13:29 <ais523> for instance, "ab ade" is a trivial program that creates infinite nodes
16:14:10 <Slereah> So you start with the graph a-b, and what does it do?
16:14:30 <ais523> you start with the graph thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog, as always
16:14:44 <ais523> but ab refers to a vertex b of degree 1
16:14:56 <ais523> and you replace it with a vertex of degree 2 connected to a vertex of degree one
16:15:04 <Slereah> It's like the active part in the andrei machine?
16:15:07 <ais523> so you end up with an infinite chain of degree-2 vertices
16:15:43 <Slereah> Wait, what does a-b transforms into in one step?
16:17:42 <ais523> Slereah: the vertices aren't marked with letters
16:18:10 <ais523> so ab transforms into ade, which is equivalent to zab, which becomes zade, which is equivalent to yzab, which becomes yzade
16:18:50 <Slereah> Oh, so you can have multiple nodes with the same name
16:19:04 <ais523> nodes aren't named at all
16:19:09 <ais523> nodes are completely unnamed
16:19:17 <ais523> letters are just used to describe graphs
16:19:38 <ais523> just like if you say A+B in Prolog, that matches any addition
16:19:46 <ais523> not necessarily an addition of the letters A and B
16:20:13 <Slereah> The fact that the starting graph is so hueg doesn't make it easy to visualize a suimple example
16:20:26 <ais523> you generally replace the starting graph with what you want
16:20:31 <ais523> as it's unlikely to come up at random
16:21:01 <Slereah> So a-b actually replaces every nodes connected by a vertex?
16:22:36 <ais523> no, because b isn't mentioned over the right
16:22:46 <ais523> it replaces all nodes that are connected to one other node, but nothing else
16:22:58 <ais523> ab adb would replace two connected nodes with a chain of three connected nodes
16:23:03 <ais523> and is so general, it would be unlikely to be useful
16:23:26 <Slereah> That sounds even worst to program than the Kolmogorov machine
16:23:43 <FireFly> What's the name of this.. language?
16:23:50 <Slereah> And a starting node, to mark the beginning
16:24:00 <Slereah> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome
16:24:39 <Slereah> I wonder if Mathematica is good with graphs, since it's the best software ever written
16:28:05 <Slereah> Mathematica has graphs, but the documentation is really shallow
16:28:25 <ais523> Mathematica is incredibly bad at anything it wasn't designed for
16:29:04 <Slereah> http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/Combinatorica/ref/Graph.html
16:29:22 <Slereah> Do they tell me how a list of vertex and nodes is supposed to be written?
16:33:00 -!- jix has joined.
16:33:14 <ais523> Slereah: node = vertex
16:35:01 <ais523> ugh, Mathematica's graph stuff is as inflexible as I suspected it might be
16:35:09 <ais523> each vertex seems to come with information about where it is
16:35:20 <ais523> which means it can't draw graphs in the neatest possible way
16:36:44 <ais523> although they do have things like SpringEmbedding to try to achieve that sort of thing
16:38:13 <Slereah> I tried ShowGraph[Graph[{{1, 2}}, {{1, 1}, {2, 2}}]], but it no works
16:38:15 <ais523> the Eodermdrome graph-match operation isn't in their library, though
16:38:24 <Slereah> I may need additional brackets
16:38:32 <ais523> meaning it's basically impossible to implement
16:42:55 <Slereah> Well, it's probably doable
16:43:01 <Slereah> Though not necessarily easy
16:43:23 <Slereah> Although I think the Andrei Machine 9000 should be easier, since it has typed nodes
16:43:23 <Deewiant> The Graph bit works but ShowGraph gives a bunch of errors
16:43:44 <ais523> Deewiant: probably because the nodes aren't assigned to positions
16:43:53 <ais523> you'd have to take it through a position-allocation function first
16:44:19 <Deewiant> Possibly; I didn't read the docs, just tried Slereah's expression :-)
16:44:30 <ais523> also, how do you know the Graph bit works?
16:44:39 <ais523> Mathematica operations don't normally give errors if you mess up the syntax
16:44:43 <ais523> they just hold in place Thutu-style
16:44:48 <Deewiant> It doesn't error and it gives proper output
16:44:53 <ais523> although there are error-recognition patterns in later versions
16:48:28 <Slereah> Is Graph shit a package, or is it basic Mathematica?
16:48:34 <Slereah> Because even the examples don't work
16:48:56 <Deewiant> It's both, it comes with Mathematica
16:49:22 <Slereah> Oh, that would explain why nothing works.
16:50:41 <Slereah> Now let's see what I can implement on that piece of shit
17:09:35 <nooga> FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
17:10:10 <nooga> load avg under osx after one week without reboot -> 0.75, 0.36, 0.23
17:17:47 -!- leonid_ has joined.
17:20:55 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:29:15 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:31:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:31:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkeþ not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:32:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkest not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:32:53 <Slereah> Man, it must be awesome to be Wolfram
17:33:13 <Slereah> He probably has a constant boner just from being him
17:33:14 <Slereah> Because he's the best man ever!
17:35:07 <pikhq> Nicely done, Ørjan.
17:35:35 <pikhq> (just because I've stopped with the Early Modern English doesn't mean I'm not going to spell “Ørjan” right. ;))
17:38:49 <nooga> i like the letter Ø
17:38:52 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)").
17:39:06 <oerjan> <Slereah> Your graph rewriting thingamagic, are you sure it's TC?
17:39:08 <nooga> i think Wolfram is weird
17:39:24 * oerjan thought he proved that.
17:40:05 <oerjan> in principle, at least, even if there may be bugs in it
17:43:54 -!- leonid_ has left (?).
17:45:52 <Slereah> Sim City fucking loved llamas
17:46:20 <oerjan> AnMaster: i merely corrected þe grammar
17:48:07 <oerjan> AnMaster: means nonsense
17:50:15 <lifthrasiir> AnMaster: finally i'm back to the esotope-bfc. :) i recently added bfrle parser to analyze gcc-bf's output.
17:50:27 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, I had one for DAYS ;P
17:51:07 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, haven't had time for in-between for a while
17:51:26 <AnMaster> polynom stuff is semi-complete
17:51:36 <ehird> GregorR: your font is weird. "Hello, world! How are you today?" → "HELLO, DONLD! HOD ANE EOU PODAE?"
17:51:43 <AnMaster> (meh, I always spell it in Swedish by mistake)
17:52:08 <oerjan> i was going to say that
17:52:10 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, haven't worked out how to convert non-trivial loops to that form though
17:52:40 <AnMaster> that is not +/- 1 for index cell. And no, I haven't been able to understand the algorithm you use
17:52:49 <ehird> lifthrasiir: so I'm curious, you wrote that thing about north/south korea for your school right? d'you think north korea are bluffing about bombing south korea?
17:52:51 <oerjan> AnMaster: do you still have trouble with the [+++>----<] kind?
17:52:55 <ehird> i'd imagine so, but, weird place.
17:53:15 <oerjan> AnMaster: i keep telling you the extended euclidean algorithm is the key
17:53:22 <ehird> oerjan: he can't understand it
17:53:35 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes and I read about it. And I just don't understand *how* it is the key. How to use it in here.
17:53:53 <lifthrasiir> ehird: south koreans have been immuned to such things over the recent twenty years or so.
17:53:55 <ehird> (and yet he has the audacity to yell at me for not being up-to-date with a special case of the definition of imaginary numbers :-))
17:54:02 <oerjan> AnMaster: although as long as the index cell increment is _odd_, it reduces to modulo inverse
17:54:44 <oerjan> AnMaster: essentially for [+++>----<] you need to find x such that 3x == 1 (mod 256)
17:55:55 <oerjan> and then if the index cell is y, the other cell gets 4*x*y added
17:56:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, and x is the other cell?
17:56:36 <oerjan> no, x is what i wrote in the previous line
17:56:57 <oerjan> the index cell gets zeroed, naturally
17:57:43 <oerjan> AnMaster: note that the requirement that the increment is odd is really gcd(increment,256) = 1
17:57:46 <AnMaster> oerjan, that isn't an issue. I already make use of the knowledge that after a loop the index cell is zero.
17:58:20 <oerjan> when the gcd is 1, the extended euclidean algorithm reduces to finding modulo inverses
17:58:34 <AnMaster> I did work out that "when odd it will be finite", but in another way
18:01:17 <oerjan> AnMaster: it is possible to split things up if you find modulo inverses easier to think of than the algorithm (although you will still need the algorithm to _calculate_ a modulo inverse)
18:02:00 <oerjan> essentially you can first calculate the gcd(increment, 256), which gives you enough information to tell whether the loop is infinite or not
18:02:00 * AnMaster reads about modulo inverse on mathworld
18:02:54 <oerjan> if it is not infinite, then you divide things by the gcd, and then use modular inverse
18:02:54 <ehird> more like wolframworld.
18:03:10 <AnMaster> ehird, true, but was first hit on google
18:03:24 <ehird> modulo inverse is just the inverse of modulo :P
18:03:26 <oerjan> (wikipedia was first for me)
18:03:36 <ehird> oerjan: regional etc diffs
18:03:41 <oerjan> also, *modular, as the googling reminded me
18:03:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, so it is here if I'm not logged in to gmail.
18:03:58 <ehird> AnMaster: that's it personalizeramating the search results
18:04:48 <AnMaster> ehird, I use a script to disable the click tracking though, but I guess they could still do something based on search terms
18:05:43 <ehird> i leave it on because I like the superior search results.
18:05:55 <AnMaster> oooh "coprime" is same as "relativt prima" in Swedish.... Now I'm _slightly_ less lost.
18:06:45 <AnMaster> well ok I think I see *part* of what oerjan is talking about now
18:06:45 <nooga> oerjan: øl før frøkøst << that's pretty much real for me ;C
18:08:40 <nooga> i've got beer, but i'm too lazy to visit a grocery store
18:09:15 <ehird> pikhq: what's that writing system you talked about?
18:09:40 <ehird> nooga: beer, water, basically the same thing modulo some hops right?
18:10:08 <nooga> makes my stomach full
18:10:15 <AnMaster> fuck ESD... (no nothing got destroyed, but it hurt, saw the spark between the water tap and my finger...)
18:10:16 <ehird> yep, er, that's a property of water
18:10:41 <ehird> AnMaster: static is fun when you touch a crt
18:10:45 <ehird> or rather not very fun, but
18:10:48 <nooga> + i've heard that Polish beer is quite good
18:10:58 <AnMaster> ehird, as "not fun" as a magnet is?
18:11:17 <ehird> AnMaster: oh oh I used to use magnets on CRT & LCD monitors
18:11:28 <ehird> AnMaster: for a CRT btw it's fine you just need to degauss after
18:11:38 <AnMaster> ehird, unless the magnet is too strong
18:11:58 <ehird> well maybe if you're like magnet mcstrongymagnet you couldn't just use any magnet you own
18:12:12 <AnMaster> ehird, neody-whatever magnet kind of strong I mean
18:12:24 <nooga> my old crt started to wobble when my electric oven was on
18:13:18 <AnMaster> ehird, as for LCD... Do you mean TFT or calculator-kind-of-LCD
18:13:31 <AnMaster> I never heard of any issues with magnets for either
18:13:38 <ehird> hmm maybe I'm misremembering
18:13:38 <AnMaster> I haven't tried, and don't plan to
18:13:46 <ehird> but my TFT did that I think
18:13:50 <ehird> wavy purpley colours
18:14:01 <nooga> ehird: try on plasma
18:14:09 <oerjan> ehird: are you sure you weren't ingesting something at the time
18:14:12 <ehird> nooga: I do not have the cash for a plasma display :)
18:14:21 <ehird> oerjan: 'tis possible
18:14:33 <ehird> I wonder what fun things you can do with OLED
18:14:35 <jix> maybe there was something magnetic behind the liquid cristals
18:14:44 <jix> so the magnets pulled that against the LCs
18:14:48 <ehird> do OLED displays have subpixels?
18:14:53 <ehird> jix: possibly, or just my bad memory
18:15:01 <Slereah> I used to have a professor
18:15:11 <Slereah> He's a researcher on OLEDs
18:15:13 <ehird> yes, OLED displays do have subpixels, cool
18:15:30 <Slereah> Always telling us how awesome they were
18:15:34 <ehird> OLED's pretty cool.
18:15:49 <ehird> Would love to use an OLED display for my new machine but that's not really practical yet.
18:15:57 <nooga> black is black, colors are vivid
18:16:17 <ehird> otoh I still want someone to invent something like:
18:16:25 <Slereah> Except it's expensive as shit :o
18:16:26 <ehird> OLED, but the off state is white, not black
18:16:39 <ehird> then black-on-white text would be a lot easier & pleasant to read
18:16:50 <AnMaster> isn't life time of OLED displays rather short
18:16:52 <ehird> I like white backgrounds better, but black ones give less eye strain currently
18:16:53 <nooga> how to display black?
18:16:55 <ehird> AnMaster: used to be
18:17:00 <ehird> nooga: beats me :)
18:17:16 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah, one way of doing it even has more lifespan than lcd/tft displays iirc
18:17:32 <ehird> plus, displays don't really last that long anyway
18:17:58 <AnMaster> ehird, I only had an TFT fail once, that was due to the backlight thingy dying.
18:18:02 <nooga> i've seen something like a paper display
18:18:09 <ehird> nooga: yeah, ipaper
18:18:12 <AnMaster> CFL or something I think the term is?
18:18:27 <ehird> nooga: it does the neutral-white thing perfectly BUT:
18:18:32 <AnMaster> ehird, my old monitor lasted... hm. 6 years?
18:18:34 <ehird> - terrible, terrible contrast
18:18:40 <ehird> - very poor colour
18:18:48 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, but you're a luddite :)
18:19:00 <Deewiant> I've never had a monitor break on me
18:19:03 <ehird> AnMaster: congrats, you've got a google query set up
18:19:04 <nooga> + those printed circuits (printed like documents) on foil
18:19:14 <ehird> i have a dead pixel on this monitor
18:19:20 <AnMaster> ehird, I thought you used the same query interface?
18:19:21 <ehird> even though it's barely visible since it's 100dpi
18:19:29 <Deewiant> Some 15+-years old ones are still in use
18:19:54 <AnMaster> ehird.lookup("luddite").explain("otherwise this will turn into C++ with templates!")
18:19:56 <ehird> Deewiant: by "last" i mean "a display from so many years ago will be uncomfortably small for modern systems"
18:20:14 <ehird> eg from the 90s you've got 14-17" displays; awful
18:20:22 <ehird> blurry crt to boot
18:20:42 <nooga> i like my 24' apple screen
18:20:46 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:20:51 <ehird> apple screens are nice
18:20:54 <nooga> i use it with mac mini lol ;d
18:20:56 <ehird> good contrast, 100 dpi
18:21:55 <nooga> i think that a big screen is necessary to work comfortably with OS X window-mess policy
18:21:56 <ehird> Deewiant: are you on crack?
18:22:03 <ehird> that screen's so small I'd die
18:22:17 <ehird> nooga: as opposed to the oh-so-wonderful "MAXIMIZE EVERYTHING. EEEEEEEEEEVERYTHING! WASTED SPACE <3"?
18:22:37 <nooga> thank got there's expo
18:23:07 <jix> gott ist tot
18:23:08 <Deewiant> ehird: No, you're on monitor-crack :-P
18:23:14 <nooga> + i'd like to have an option to tile windows
18:23:18 <Deewiant> 1280x1024 is a fine resolution
18:23:22 <ehird> Deewiant: hahahahah
18:23:27 <ehird> maybe if you do only one thing at a time
18:23:33 <jix> i want tiling too and scriptable window management
18:23:42 <ehird> and that thing is only a text editor, browser, or irc client.
18:23:48 <ehird> try editing videos at 1280x1024, fuck eyeah
18:23:51 <nooga> tile them on 2d surface and be able to resize them all with dragging borders
18:23:58 <nooga> you know what i mean?
18:24:02 <Deewiant> For all of those things I do only have one window open at a time :-P
18:24:22 <ehird> Deewiant: i'm going to assume you've never used a much bigger monitor
18:24:24 <pikhq> ehird: If I were editing videos or photos, yes, I would not be using a tiling WM.
18:24:31 <ehird> pikhq: wasn't talking about tiling
18:24:32 <Deewiant> ehird: I've got a 26" LCD currently
18:24:34 <ehird> I was talking about using 1280x1024
18:24:56 <pikhq> Tiling makes sense for me because I've got terminal apps and a browser.
18:25:02 <pikhq> 1280x1024? Sure, if it's 19".
18:25:10 <nooga> a mission: to hack OS X WM to tile windows
18:25:27 <AnMaster> pikhq, 1280x1024 is acceptable for 17" IMO. But 19" would need higher
18:25:47 <pikhq> AnMaster: Fair enough.
18:26:01 <AnMaster> what is the next step up after 1280x1024 ?
18:26:07 <ehird> AnMaster: 1680x1050
18:26:11 * pikhq has a 19" 1440x900 monitor... Be nice to have something a bit better.
18:26:15 <ehird> that's the most common step up, at least
18:26:16 <jix> i want to attach a window from one program to a window from another program
18:26:21 <jix> and then let them stay together
18:26:23 <ehird> But 19" = 1280x1024, canonically.
18:26:24 <jix> for example
18:26:27 <ehird> AnMaster: not commonly used
18:26:29 <ehird> Deewiant: oh, right
18:26:32 <pikhq> ehird: That's not 4:3. The 4:3 equivalent is 1440x1050.
18:26:38 <ehird> AnMaster: from 1280x1050, you go to 1600x1200
18:26:44 <AnMaster> ehird, well my current monitor uses 1400x1050...
18:26:56 <ehird> AnMaster: it's uncommon./
18:27:12 <AnMaster> ehird, but it is the next step up then
18:27:29 <AnMaster> and 1600x1200 is indeed widescreen
18:27:37 <ehird> AnMaster: the next step up is 1281x1025
18:27:40 <ehird> if you're going to say that
18:28:10 <ehird> AnMaster: by "next size up", clearly the only reasonable answer that can be given is "what's the most common next step up?"
18:28:13 <AnMaster> that makes so much sense... NOT
18:28:17 <Deewiant> ehird: Actually it's 1285/1028
18:28:20 <pikhq> ehird: 1440x1050 is only uncommon because monitors of the size where it makes sense are uncommon.
18:28:47 <AnMaster> ehird, "what is the next step above which is actually used, but maybe not the most common on"
18:29:10 <ehird> wow, ~160 dpi is beautiful
18:29:21 <pikhq> "Get a middling DPI 19" or 20" monitor? Fuck that."
18:29:52 <AnMaster> what do you mean with "middling"
18:30:57 <nooga> ehird: is limechat scriptable?
18:31:05 <ehird> nooga: it's just ruby
18:31:21 <ehird> so that when my bouncer sends [blah] foo in the quicklog, it sets time=blah
18:31:27 <ehird> so that the bouncer logs look nicer
18:31:42 <nooga> how to i open the code when the program is ONE ICON?
18:31:49 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou talkeſt not to him..
18:31:54 <AnMaster> if it is just ruby... has it been "ported" to linux?
18:32:01 <pikhq> I DIDN'T EVEN HIT ENTER!
18:32:06 <ehird> nooga: show contents
18:32:11 <ehird> nooga: or just drag it to textmate
18:32:14 <ehird> and it'll show the directory structure
18:32:21 <AnMaster> ehird, ah... But wouldn't the backend and frontend be separate parts?
18:32:30 <ehird> AnMaster: the frontend is the majority of the code.
18:32:31 <AnMaster> so you could just use tk or whatever on Linux
18:32:32 <ehird> also, cocoa != just gui
18:32:40 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkest not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
18:32:43 <ehird> cocoa has data structures etc
18:33:04 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou talkeſt not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
18:33:11 <AnMaster> ehird, does ruby have a "native" GUI API? Like Tcl has Tk?
18:33:19 <ehird> No language except Tcl does.
18:33:30 <nooga> i doubt that this thing that appeared in textmate is ruby code
18:33:42 <ehird> nooga: what appeared
18:33:50 <AnMaster> ehird, ok. what about an interface to a gtk or such that is widely used?
18:33:54 <nooga> looks like executable
18:34:02 <ehird> nooga: look in Resources/
18:34:13 <ehird> AnMaster: it has a tk binding in core, a qt binding, a gtk binding, an ffi,
18:34:17 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean... for python isn't the "tinker" or whatever part of the python standard distribution? Rather than a separate package.
18:34:21 <ehird> a java's swing binding with JRuby,
18:34:23 <ehird> it has everything.
18:34:28 <AnMaster> ehird, sure. But I meant in core :)
18:34:30 <ehird> note: tk isn't built by default
18:34:31 <pikhq> AnMaster: Tkinter, you mean?
18:34:39 <AnMaster> pikhq, that might have been it
18:35:18 <ehird> firefox doesn't respect system-wide dpi settings
18:35:24 <AnMaster> erlang has tk and wxwidgets (new in R13A) support in the "standard" distribution.
18:35:57 <AnMaster> ehird, also, did you change display or something? Or why have you found out this just now?
18:36:00 <ehird> AnMaster: i'd rather eat my own vomit than try and compile, let alone modify, firefox
18:36:14 <ehird> also, playing around in a VM in anticipation of possible ultra-high-DPI screen for a project
18:36:29 <AnMaster> ehird, compiling isn't that complex iirc... Just time consuming. Leave it on overnight however.
18:36:47 <pikhq> AnMaster: Firefox has a complex build system.
18:36:58 <pikhq> And modifying it is hell.
18:37:15 <AnMaster> pikhq, as far as I remember it wasn't hard for me to build the ff2 alpha manually
18:37:40 <ehird> grr, virtualbox, you have mouse integration but you aren't showing all resolutions
18:37:42 <ehird> SHOW RESOLUTIONNNNNNNNNNNS
18:37:47 <pikhq> It's always been a tad bit of a bitch.
18:37:58 <ehird> WHY? YOU DARE TO ASK ME WHY?
18:38:09 <ehird> This screen will be 1280x1024. I cannot test 160dpi at 1024x768.
18:38:13 <ehird> Because there is a word for that.
18:38:29 <AnMaster> pikhq, no. Just quite a few ./configure options iirc. But way fewer than for apache!
18:38:50 <AnMaster> (yes I have built Apache manually before.... On windows too! THAT was bad.)
18:39:36 <oerjan> (upward in the snow both ways)
18:39:42 <nooga> now where is that thing
18:39:47 <ehird> nooga: what you tryina do
18:40:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, so I can't agree with you about hard to compile manually
18:41:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, did you mean what Deewiant said?
18:41:09 <Deewiant> 2009-05-30 20:36:57 ( pikhq) And modifying it is hell.
18:41:18 <Deewiant> I don't see what else he could've meant :-P
18:41:19 <ehird> AnMaster: he said that
18:41:24 <ehird> (a) it was a complex build system
18:41:26 <ehird> (b) hard to modify
18:41:29 <ehird> neither implies hard to build
18:41:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I interpreted it as "and also"
18:41:40 <Deewiant> Never did he say it's hard to use
18:41:52 <AnMaster> hard to compile manually he seemed to say
18:42:21 * ehird discovers how many applications fragrantly ignore system-wide dpi settings
18:42:26 * ehird whoop-asses said prorgams
18:42:43 <Deewiant> Well, I'm glad you find it pleasant
18:42:56 <nooga> sending privmsg where's that
18:43:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, depends. For me fragrantly == bad. Due to having asthma...
18:43:40 <ehird> "Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop."
18:43:46 <nooga> i take a loop and then i hang myself on it
18:43:55 <Deewiant> Fragrantness doesn't imply pollen
18:44:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but yes I happen to be allergic to some types of pollen as well.
18:44:20 <Deewiant> I don't see how else asthma couldn't mix with that
18:44:21 <ehird> nooga: class IRCSendingMessage
18:44:25 <ehird> case on privmsg etc
18:44:26 <Deewiant> Maybe I don't know enough about asthma
18:44:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah... I think there is difference between the English and Swedish meaning
18:44:28 <ehird> nooga: in ircmessage.rb
18:44:40 <ehird> Deewiant: err, asthma has nothing to do with pollen
18:44:52 <ehird> Asthma is a chronic medical condition. It has been defined by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute as a common chronic disorder of the airways that is complex and characterized by variable and recurring symptoms, airflow obstruction, bronchial hyperresponsiveness (bronchospasm), and an underlying inflammation. The interaction of these features of asthma determines the clinical manifestations and severity of asthma and the response to treatment.[1
18:44:59 <ehird> i dunno what smell has to do with it
18:45:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right. In English you are correct. In Swedish it kind of implies strong perfume or similar.
18:45:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, which does cause problems with asthma. Both for me and many other I know with asthma...
18:46:04 <ehird> hmm... 1280x1024, let's say 12" screen = 136.6 PPI
18:46:17 <AnMaster> damn English making a similar word with a different meaning.
18:46:36 <Deewiant> It's from Latin, and the English is closer to the original :-P
18:46:50 <Sgeo> How secure is Hashapass?
18:46:51 <Deewiant> fragrare - to smell (of something)
18:47:38 -!- jix_ has joined.
18:47:38 -!- nooga has quit ("Leaving...").
18:47:41 <AnMaster> or karott... No "carrot" is not http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Karott.JPG but rather http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carrot.jpg
18:47:56 -!- nooga has joined.
18:48:07 * ehird attempts to find ff's dpi setting
18:48:10 <Deewiant> Hmm, what /is/ carrot in Swedish
18:48:12 <AnMaster> (iirc French has the same meaning as Swedish for a similar word there?)
18:48:20 <ehird> man, 137dpi is huge
18:48:26 <ehird> eveything's the size of headings
18:48:41 <Slereah> Carotte in French can mean stealing
18:48:47 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah, it's set to -1 there
18:49:14 <ehird> AnMaster: it, uh, valiantly didn't work.
18:49:19 <AnMaster> ehird, Oh. That was an attempt at joking about FF config dialogs being dumbed down....
18:49:33 <ehird> AnMaster: They're not dumbed down
18:49:41 <ehird> I've only had to use about:config like 3 times in my life
18:49:44 <ehird> And that's for really obscure stuff.
18:50:20 -!- uooga has joined.
18:50:21 <AnMaster> ehird, sure are... Many of the settings only found in about:config nowdays used to be found in the normal config dialog in firefox 1.0 and older
18:50:24 <Sgeo> Is making the backspace key not go back really that obscure?
18:50:42 <ehird> AnMaster: that's called putting things most people don't use out of the way
18:51:02 <uooga> i broke sending msg
18:51:04 <AnMaster> ehird, hey... remember "phoenix" and "firebird"?
18:51:11 <ehird> a full system designed by AnMaster would be the most configurable piece of shit ever that you wouldn't be able to do trivial things without scrolling down 57 pages of configuration options
18:51:27 <ehird> and toggling things to one of 5 boolean values representing which type of machine code branch to use!
18:51:43 <AnMaster> ehird, a system designed by me would be better than one designed by zzo at least
18:52:02 * oerjan tends to think of zzo as AnMaster squared
18:52:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, odd. I tend to think of zzo as "lunatic"
18:52:21 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
18:52:32 <ehird> "Well my program can play solitaire or football and you can set a configuration option to whether you want to play solitaire or football and also you can change the title like if you don't like Cool Football you could use Footybally"
18:52:37 <ehird> AnMaster: he's autistic, give the kid a break
18:52:37 -!- nooga has joined.
18:52:45 <ehird> he's very intelligent for sure
18:52:46 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? Hm I wasn't aware of it.
18:53:38 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway why would I design a system. There is already one I like
18:54:09 <ehird> emacs is a perfect example of how to do everything wrong
18:54:19 <ehird> it takes bad decisions to the level of an art form
18:54:27 <Sgeo> http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/3-amazing-holgram-technologies
18:54:32 <ehird> AnMaster: everything!
18:54:52 <ehird> pick just about anything from emacs and there's your example
18:55:10 <ehird> it's like someone took the perfect editor and put it into the Make Everything Shit machine
18:55:12 <ehird> AnMaster: more specific.
18:55:13 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
18:55:23 <AnMaster> ehird, well I was more specific than you at least
18:55:27 -!- nooga has joined.
18:55:34 <AnMaster> but what it is you dislike with those then
18:55:35 <nooga> þis is a teſ<CTCP>
18:55:41 <ehird> heh, the display I want is almost as high dpi as the iphone
18:55:55 <AnMaster> ehird, the iphone is high dpi?
18:56:06 <ehird> AnMaster: it's a ~3.5" screen
18:56:10 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
18:56:14 <AnMaster> ehird, yes. Why do they make them so high dpi
18:56:25 <AnMaster> I mean I bet my phone has higher dpi than my computer monitor!
18:56:30 <ehird> AnMaster: because the screen is tiny; if you made it at a regular dpi, everything would be blocky as hell
18:56:31 -!- nooga has joined.
18:56:41 <ehird> you need to read web pages with quite small text on this
18:56:49 <ehird> look at photos too
18:56:53 <ehird> you need a decent sized screen
18:56:55 <AnMaster> ehird, you would just have to hold it as the same distance as a normal monitor ;P
18:56:56 -!- asiekierka has joined.
18:56:58 <uooga> damn, does not work
18:57:03 <ehird> iphone = 480x320, 3.5"
18:57:35 <AnMaster> ehird, then another question... Why don't they make normal monitors as high dpi as those
18:57:45 <ehird> AnMaster: mega $$$
18:57:47 <ehird> also, they do, for industry
18:57:50 <ehird> eg hospitals and shit
18:58:02 <AnMaster> ehird, why not get such a monitor?
18:58:12 <ehird> AnMaster: that'll be a few thousand dollars, please
18:58:13 <FireFly> They're probably expensive, I guess
18:58:22 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:58:27 <ehird> AnMaster: oh, and once you give me those thousand dollars, you can have shit contrast ratio too
18:58:43 <ehird> Big, high-dpi, good contrast ratio.
18:58:55 <ehird> Mandatory extra pick: Costly.
18:58:58 <AnMaster> is that as in "bad" or "stuff"
18:59:15 <ehird> English takes words that mean anything to the nth level :)
18:59:19 <AnMaster> ehird, what about ones based on plasma
18:59:25 <AnMaster> what is the downside with them
18:59:31 <ehird> blurry, aren't they?
18:59:33 <ehird> only usable for tvs
18:59:50 <ehird> also, very power hungry
18:59:59 <AnMaster> well I would want one of those monitors that are always used as reference monitors in monitor tests!
19:00:10 <ehird> [[Until the early 21st century, superior brightness, faster response time, greater color spectrum, and wider viewing angle of color plasma video displays, compared to LCD televisions, made them a popular display for HDTV flat panel displays. It was believed at the time that LCD technology was suited only to smaller sized televisions, while plasma technology was more competitive at larger sizes, particularly 40 inches (100 cm) and above. Improvements in V
19:00:13 <ehird> LSI fabrication technology have narrowed the technological gap. The lower weight, falling prices, and often lower electrical power consumption of LCDs make them competitive with plasma television sets.]]
19:00:18 <nooga> ſ was forbidden on þe end on or þe begining ?
19:00:23 <ehird> [[Plasma displays are bright (1000 lux or higher for the module), have a wide color gamut, and can be produced in fairly large sizes, up to 381 cm (150 inches) diagonally. ]]
19:00:28 <ehird> plasma displays use as much power as crts I think
19:00:48 <ehird> AnMaster: [[Nominal power rating is typically 400 watts for a 50-inch (127 cm) screen. Post-2006 models consume 220 to 310 watts for a 50-inch (127 cm) display when set to cinema mode. Most screens are set to 'shop' mode by default, which draws at least twice the power (around 500-700 watts) of a 'home' setting of less extreme brightness.]]
19:00:59 <ehird> 700 watts can power a high-end gaming pc
19:01:06 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
19:01:21 -!- nooga has joined.
19:01:27 <ehird> [[Plasma TVs also do not exhibit an image blur common in many LCD TVs]]
19:01:36 <nooga> okay, now þisſhould work properly
19:01:38 <ehird> plasma displays are cool if you don't mind paying through the roof in both cost and power
19:01:53 <ehird> AnMaster: you can set it to anything personally
19:01:57 <ehird> it's just to woo customers in a shop window
19:02:10 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah that is the bit I called cheating
19:02:22 <Deewiant> They're just names for preset brightness settings
19:02:26 <ehird> yeah, what Deewiant said
19:02:36 <Deewiant> It makes sense for them to be really bright in a shop, so you can see the picture :-P
19:02:55 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
19:03:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Ah yes often lots of lamps there indeed...
19:03:02 <Deewiant> And I guess you can actually compare stuff like colours better that way
19:03:04 <ehird> hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha:
19:03:07 <ehird> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/6ft-by-150-inches--and-thats-just-the-tv-768862.html?action=Popup
19:03:10 <ehird> WORST DEMONSTRATION PICTURE EVER
19:03:11 -!- nooga has joined.
19:04:16 <ehird> AnMaster: do you seriously have to ask that? :D
19:04:23 <AnMaster> ehird, what would you have preferred?
19:04:34 <AnMaster> ehird, it is certainly not the usual style they use
19:04:48 <ehird> something that isn't two fat people, one of which looks like he's looking at the other's pants :)
19:05:02 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
19:05:12 <ehird> i'm just saying what it actually is
19:05:17 -!- nooga has joined.
19:05:28 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:05:42 <pikhq> MY HAND ITCHEÞ! TOO MUCH! VERY ANNOYING!...EÞ!
19:06:37 <ehird> pikhq: EXCESSIVE MASTURBATION CAUSES ITCHY HANDS. YOU ARE CURSED... FOREVER!
19:06:40 <ehird> MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA—what.
19:06:55 <AnMaster> pikhq, you don't spell "itches" as "ITCHETH"
19:07:03 -!- nooga has joined.
19:07:04 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes I realise it was back-converted.
19:07:19 <AnMaster> but it seems either you typoed or my script is buggy
19:07:20 <ehird> itcheth is perfectly valid olde english
19:07:39 <ehird> AnMaster: fuck you :)
19:07:41 <AnMaster> nooga, what are you talking about
19:07:54 <ehird> AnMaster: he's written a script to do the same as pikhq/GregorR.
19:07:56 <oerjan> AnMaster: he is a bit sluggish
19:08:39 <nooga> but at leaſt it works
19:08:58 <AnMaster> I rewrote that back-converter script for xchat btw. Out of wanting to help the people in here out of the pain this causes.
19:09:00 <ehird> pikhq: IT IS A FAKE SIN, WHICH IS JUST LIKE A SIN EXCEPT NOT A SIN
19:09:12 <ehird> AnMaster: unsurprisingly, you're the only one it bothers.
19:09:26 <AnMaster> ehird, no I'm not bothered by it
19:09:28 <nooga> AnMaſter: þis is fun
19:09:40 <pikhq> AnMaſter: Unſurpriſingly, your monitor ſucks.
19:09:51 <AnMaster> pikhq, so you want to pay for a better one?
19:10:17 <pikhq> No. Get ſomeþing wiþ a greater þan 4 DPI or a better font.
19:10:27 <ehird> AnMaster: ok, ok, hypocrite alert
19:10:27 <nooga> i like þat, eſpecially þat i don't ſee my converted text as converted
19:10:35 <AnMaster> pikhq, font is Dejavu Mono Sans 9
19:10:44 <ehird> AnMaster: everytime you criticize something I will hold you to buying a better monitor for the person you target it at.
19:10:44 <AnMaster> don't remember which the name is
19:10:57 <pikhq> (if þ and p are indiſtinguiſhable, the ſame for f and ſ, ſomeþing ſucks.)
19:11:04 <AnMaster> ehird, you meant about your suggestion about me paying for that monitor before?
19:11:12 <ehird> 19:09 AnMaster: pikhq, so you want to pay for a better one?
19:11:51 <pikhq> AnMaſter: I have þe ſame font. It's very eaſy to tell þe letterſ apart.
19:12:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, depends on monitor DPI and how your good your sight is and several other things...
19:13:01 <AnMaster> pikhq, the main issue is with the upper case Th one and P
19:13:11 <pikhq> AnMaster: I can tell the different with my freaking glasses off.
19:13:14 <AnMaster> I checked on a screenshot in gimp. Two pixels differ
19:13:30 <AnMaster> pikhq, without glasses I can't tell what it reads on the screen AT ALL
19:13:32 -!- uooga has quit ("Lost terminal").
19:13:56 <AnMaster> unless I'm like 10 cm from it (rather than the usual 60 cm
19:14:31 <pikhq> Hmm. I should start using þ in my smilies to annoy AnMaster. :p
19:14:47 <AnMaster> pikhq, that is easy to tell apart
19:15:27 <AnMaster> <oerjan> :thulhu <-- forgot the c...
19:15:28 <pikhq> You ſuck at þis, BTW.
19:15:56 <AnMaster> oerjan, what was that supposed to mean....
19:16:03 <ehird> kay, dpi all works lovely. Now I just need to find a 12" 1280x1024 OLED display :-P
19:16:14 <oerjan> AnMaster: did not forget, left out on purpose
19:16:31 <ehird> "Everett, who believed in quantum immortality[7], died" —Wikipedia
19:16:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, why? I haven't read anything by Lovecraft...
19:17:28 <ehird> lovecraft is awesome
19:18:06 <oerjan> ehird: also, Everett only died in _this_ world, obviously
19:18:09 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
19:18:13 <ehird> oerjan: i know, it just made me lol
19:18:18 <AnMaster> ehird, I have been considering it. But I saw that book in a shop and it was extremely thick... something like 7 cm...
19:18:19 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
19:18:20 <ehird> i'm partial to many worlds myself
19:18:25 <fungot> asiekierka: desconsertante, esperaba oir la voz de un hombre jajaja, pero no se ve una gran trama... pero bueno en las peliculas de accion lo mas importante no es precisamente la trama. it was remote controlled
19:18:29 <ehird> AnMaster: His stories are short.
19:18:32 <ehird> That would be a collection
19:18:45 <fungot> asiekierka: what about the flying club which staged the show and forgetting sarah marshall? i heard from seeing this video.
19:18:46 <ehird> Just read The Call of Cthulhu :-)
19:18:57 <AnMaster> ehird, necrocomicon? something like that I believe the title was
19:19:29 <AnMaster> (or is that the one found on the Disworld? Don't remember the spelling...)
19:19:44 <ehird> AnMaster: Necronomicon is a fictional book invented by Lovecraft.
19:19:44 <AnMaster> (obviously the discworld one was a parody on it)
19:19:59 <ehird> Probably the title was reäppropriated for a collection of his stories.
19:20:02 <AnMaster> ehird, ah they probably called the collection that then...
19:21:54 <ehird> it seems to be wishful thinking that I could purchase a 12" OLED display at such a high resolution
19:22:05 <ehird> especially as I want it raw (to put in a laptop chassis)
19:22:46 <AnMaster> ehird, I never heard of anyone building a laptop
19:23:02 <AnMaster> maybe due to them being so compact
19:23:13 <ehird> AnMaster: i want a netbook that's extremely light and small but still usable for typing etc
19:23:21 <oerjan> all you need is a good hammer
19:23:24 <ehird> current crop sucks
19:23:34 <AnMaster> ehird, it would be quite a bit trickier than building a normal desktop computer
19:23:36 <ehird> so the idea is: buy laptop chassis, buy thin components, hack at them until it all fits
19:23:52 <AnMaster> due to the compactness and often non-standard card size to fit in and such
19:24:00 <ehird> AnMaster: heck, even most motherboard chipset heatsinks stick up too high
19:24:05 <AnMaster> I'm not sure you could get all the components easily
19:24:08 <ehird> also their upwards ram mounting system
19:24:19 <ehird> (needs to be sideways for flatness)
19:24:31 <ehird> I wonder how the macbook air does it
19:24:39 <ehird> You couldn't even fit a fan or a drive in a case that thin
19:24:47 <AnMaster> which is why the performance sucks so bad
19:24:56 <ehird> AnMaster: the macbook air performance is fine
19:25:02 <ehird> it's a core 2 duo w/ 2gb ram
19:25:05 <ehird> (the higher model that is)
19:25:11 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/MacBook_Air_black.jpg
19:25:18 <AnMaster> ehird, it is thinner at the edges
19:25:24 <ehird> i can't see an opportunity for a fan, drive, heatsink, anything really
19:25:28 <AnMaster> so it does seem thinner than it actually is
19:26:10 <AnMaster> ehird, http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3217
19:26:20 <ehird> i thought you didn't trust anand :)
19:26:45 * ehird clicks printed version to avoid the woes of multi-page articles
19:26:53 <ehird> "The big black thing that takes up the majority of the real estate is the Air's battery"
19:27:08 <AnMaster> ehird, I always want to verify tests and such. "Trust him about this product being oh so great" is rather different from "showing the inside of a computer model"
19:27:23 <ehird> AnMaster: erm, the ssd article had benchmark results
19:27:30 <ehird> including descriptions of which benchmarks were run
19:28:18 <ehird> "The MacBook Air hard drive is a 1.8", 5mm thick PATA drive from Samsung. It features a 8MB buffer and spins at 4200RPM."
19:28:22 <ehird> now THAT's tiny/slow!
19:32:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
19:34:34 <ehird> ofc i'm rather picky about what i'd want
19:34:42 <ehird> built-in wifi/3g, for one
19:34:51 <ehird> although i could perhaps use a pci/e card at a stretch
19:40:16 -!- asiekierka has quit.
19:41:05 -!- Corun has quit.
19:41:32 -!- Corun has joined.
19:43:14 <ehird> oerjan: btw, is it the actual quantum immortality position that you can't die in your own world, as opposed to only not being able to die via quantumly means?
19:43:26 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, but it all depends on what you benchmark. I'm not saying SSD is bad. I'm just saying I'm not going to blindly trust a single source about them
19:43:37 <AnMaster> or anything else where I plan to buy something
19:43:38 <ehird> AnMaster: he used standard industry drive performance benchmarks
19:43:48 <ehird> there's not really anything else more thorough you could do...
19:43:53 <oerjan> ehird: the former i assume
19:44:07 <ehird> oerjan: it seems rather wishful
19:44:38 <AnMaster> ehird, sure. But they don't tell everything. Reading about user experience with the units is also relevant.
19:44:54 <AnMaster> and yes I never said SSD was bad.
19:44:58 <nooga> who's got red beard?
19:44:58 <ehird> AnMaster: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-ssds.html
19:45:02 <ehird> good enough for you? ;)
19:45:06 <oerjan> ehird: _every_ mean is a quantum mean
19:45:16 <AnMaster> Just I never trust one single source where I plan to buy something
19:45:19 <ehird> oerjan: but the whole thing seems wishful
19:45:44 <ehird> oerjan: i'm just wondering why they think it apart from pure wishfulness
19:46:50 <oerjan> (also why the heck are you asking me...)
19:47:03 <ehird> oerjan: you're a mathematician. mathematicians know everything to do with mathematics.
19:47:06 <ehird> "A committed atheist, he had asked to be thrown out with the trash after his death."
19:47:20 <ehird> "Everett's daughter, Elizabeth, suffered from schizophrenia and committed suicide in 1996 (saying in her suicide note that she was going to a parallel universe to be with her father)"
19:47:24 <ehird> I don't think it works that way
19:47:24 <nooga> average ruby code looks like: @a = a; @b = b; ...; @n = n; some.quite.long.dot.chain.map! {|lalala| ... }.something
19:48:05 <oerjan> well no they don't, also many worlds is a physical theory, at least at the level where quantum immortality would happen...
19:48:17 <ehird> oerjan: well yes they do! :-)
19:49:45 <AnMaster> Torvalds blogs... didn't think he was that type
19:50:01 <oerjan> he started very recently
19:50:20 <ehird> oerjan: erm he started in 2008-10
19:50:27 * coppro tries to imagine RMS bloggin
19:50:38 <ehird> http://stallman.org/
19:50:46 <ehird> it's a bit too lo-fi to be called a blog exactly
19:50:51 <ehird> but it's just as obnoxious as your average on
19:51:01 <ehird> hahaha he still has the don't buy harry potter books then
19:51:08 <ehird> at the top of his page
19:51:19 <ehird> http://stallman.org/images/cartoon-economists.png
19:51:31 <ehird> How to know your comic sucks ass: you label things.
19:51:40 <ehird> It's a meter four, see!
19:52:04 * oerjan recalls triangle & robert's sheep
19:52:29 <ehird> "US citizens: The site change.org allows people to propose and support political ideas. One that I supported is a new investigation of how the 9/11 attacks were carried out, and who was responsible."
19:52:34 <ehird> hahaha he's a truther?
19:52:52 <ehird> "As individual suspects, Bush and Cheney must not be punished without being convicted in a fair trial. As the level of politics, however, given that they blocked and corrupted the investigation into their possible guilt, we must consider them guilty until a real investigation is allowed."
19:53:02 <ehird> As we all know, people are guilty until proven innocent, if we don't like them.
19:54:09 <oerjan> well, not everyone. but you are.
19:54:29 <ehird> Also, free speech only applies to people who are right.
19:54:44 <psygnisfive> ofcourse! if you're wrong, you have to pay to speak..
19:54:50 <oerjan> yes, lefties are commies and should have no free speech
19:55:26 <oerjan> heck they don't really want it anyway
19:55:44 <oerjan> as soon as they get power, they abolish it
19:57:06 <oerjan> same with the chinks and the niggers in africa
19:57:13 <comex> I should argue that SILENCE violates the right of participation in the fora
19:57:21 <nooga> nigger nigger nigger nigger
19:57:43 <ehird> Nigger is a word meaning nigger.
19:57:48 <ehird> Why are we talking about niggers again?
19:57:53 <ehird> That bloody racist.
19:58:26 <oerjan> it's not racism if it's a fact. look at how the chinks are _helping_ the niggers in africa get rid of free speech.
19:59:04 <oerjan> and a little genocide on the side
19:59:26 <ehird> Genoside on the cide
19:59:56 <nooga> there are black ppl everywhere
20:00:07 <oerjan> we should always be on the side of the genes. how can that be racism?
20:00:41 <oerjan> nooga: well that's because they're breading like pigs
20:00:46 <nooga> and they start to force western europe to obey them in some way
20:01:17 <oerjan> actually that should be rabbits, at least for the muslims, they don't care for pigs
20:01:39 <nooga> in Poland: muslims come and say "obey our stupid rights to kill our wives" and poles don't give a fuck, beat them hardly and let them go to their countries
20:01:49 <oerjan> the chinks do though, that's why we have so much flu
20:01:51 <nooga> "We didn't invite you. eot."
20:02:11 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:02:14 <nooga> ppl are sooo untolerant here
20:06:09 <nooga> is there a way to order something in an internet store and recieve that without having them know who you are?
20:06:21 <nooga> anonymous mailbox? ;f
20:08:42 <ehird> nooga: just use their generated address
20:08:45 <ehird> and click on it after using it
20:08:55 <ehird> then you can just trash it
20:09:11 <ehird> nooga: erm a po box or sth?
20:09:15 <ehird> i think you can't do that by design
20:09:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:10:00 <ehird> nooga: can't you just use a fake name
20:10:26 <ehird> but po box seems to be the thang
20:10:26 <nooga> funny thing that you could send mail without post stamps: enter reciever as sender, you as a reciever, put thing in mailbox
20:10:38 <nooga> the letter will be sent to the right person
20:11:21 <ehird> nooga: only in poland i assume
20:11:30 <nooga> but they've noticed it
20:11:39 <nooga> and it does not work anymore
20:11:57 <nooga> because mail without post stamps was supposed to be sent back to the sender
20:19:47 <nooga> when i write my name and surname
20:20:32 <nooga> i should use: Marcin Gasperowicz or Martin Gasperowicz or Martin Gasperovitch
20:20:50 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
20:21:32 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:30:07 <ehird> ais523: how does eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer work?
20:31:55 <ehird> ais523: didn't help.
20:34:28 <GregorR-L> Why, there's no eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer page on the wiki.
20:35:48 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Why, you've ſtopped þe ſcript.
20:36:39 <ehird> your mother is lame
20:36:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:37:18 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Þou ſeëſt þat we care not.
20:38:03 <ehird> the two Es are pronounced the same
20:38:05 <psygnisfive> fix it to at least do long-s where it should be: non-word finally not after a long-s
20:38:13 <ehird> ¨ represents two vowels in a row that are pronounced differently
20:38:22 <GregorR-L> pſygnisfive: Uhhhhh, þat's what it doþ do.
20:38:52 <pikhq> ehird: I was wondering if þou wouldſt catch þat. :p
20:38:55 <ehird> seëst is pronounced seh-ehst
20:39:02 <ehird> which is dumbtarded :)
20:39:18 <pikhq> psygnisfive: ſee-est.
20:39:22 <GregorR-L> pſygnisfive: Every inſtance of it in þat laſt ſentence, and þis one, is non-word-final and not after a long-s ...
20:39:25 <pikhq> psygnisfive: ſee-eſt.
20:39:33 <myndzi> shouldn't that be seést?
20:39:45 <pikhq> myndzi: Not in Engliſh.
20:39:58 <myndzi> oh right, i'm reading up
20:40:02 <psygnisfive> GregorR-L: : yes, and yet a non-word-final not-after-long-s "s" was NOT converted!
20:40:07 <myndzi> but i've never seen ë in english
20:40:34 <pikhq> psygnisfive: s before f is always ſhort.
20:41:15 <ehird> psygnisfive's name is ghoti
20:41:18 <GregorR-L> I was told by pikhq to do it at way, and I'm waaaay to lazy to look it up.
20:41:40 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
20:41:55 <pikhq> Þou wouldſt do well to do þe ſame.
20:42:08 <myndzi> ha ha ha! all your work is wasted! i just replaced them all back to something that looks right
20:42:22 <GregorR-L> myndzi: Þou ſeem to have done þat much faſter þan AnMaſter.
20:42:55 <pikhq> myndzi: Uſing AnMaſter's ſcript? It's quite broken. Þought þou ſhould know.
20:42:57 <myndzi> correction: seemest! (seem'st?)
20:43:14 <myndzi> no, i just added an input filter in my own script
20:43:19 <myndzi> to turn all the unicodes back to their proper letters
20:43:39 <pikhq> Ah. So, not AnMaſter's broken ſcript.
20:43:48 <myndzi> placement doesn't matter in that case, obviously ;)
20:43:54 <myndzi> so i can ignore the rules
20:44:43 <pikhq> I ſould ſtab þou hard.
20:45:46 -!- kar8nga has joined.
20:45:51 <pikhq> GregorR-L: /topic #esoteric #eſoteric: ...
20:46:26 <pikhq> Alſo, əſötərıc FTW?
20:46:41 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
20:48:29 -!- nooga has joined.
20:49:06 <pikhq> It's actually ſtill in (rare) uſe, moſt people juſt ignore it.
20:49:08 <ehird> it's the most beautiful-est archaism ever
20:49:26 <pikhq> Deewiant: IIRC, a few publications ſtill use it.
20:49:33 <myndzi> i've seen accents not dots
20:49:36 <Deewiant> pikhq: Yes, but it's still archaic.
20:49:37 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floptical
20:49:41 <nooga> what's eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer
20:49:43 <myndzi> but not for the double vowel thing
20:50:12 <GregorR-L> Naïve is ſtill conſidered correct.
20:50:21 <pikhq> The New Yorker, for example, ſtill uſes it.
20:50:40 <GregorR-L> Þe diacritical mark in Engliſh means "pronounce þis vowel ſeparately, not as a diphtong"
20:51:22 <pikhq> Engliſh needs it, IMO.
20:51:34 <ehird> the new yorker is so pretentious :)
20:51:54 <pikhq> ehird: Correct Engliſh is pretentious now?
20:52:04 <ehird> the new yorker is pretentious in general
20:52:51 <pikhq> nooga: Þat's moſt commonly uſed in the Romanization of Japaneſe.
20:53:25 <pikhq> Macrons are uſed to elongate everything *but* i.
20:53:39 <pikhq> i is doubled, inſtead.
20:54:25 <pikhq> "Benkyō shimasu" is an obvious example...
20:54:28 <ehird> Instyd of ryplacing all vywyls with q, how abyt jyst ryplacing a, e, u, ae and ou with y?
20:55:01 <ehird> Actuylly, ryplace i wyth y too.
20:55:09 <pikhq> ehird: I killeſt þou.
20:55:32 <pikhq> BTW, y in Welſh is a single vowel. ;)
20:55:41 <ehird> pykhq: Shyt yp (ooh, thyt doysn't work too wyll), hythyn.
20:56:24 <ehird> o ynd y: thy two myn vowyls of thy world.
20:56:27 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Welſh has fun phonemes. ;)
20:56:28 <nooga> i get spam in Welsh
20:56:45 <nooga> a friend of mine skeaks fluent welsh o.o
20:57:31 <myndzi> Q qqqq, qqq'q qqqq qqqqqqq QQQQQQQQQQ qqqq Q!
20:57:35 <pikhq> I wonder how one ſkeaks.
20:57:43 <ehird> Ryplacying yll syqyncys of vowyls ypyrt from o wyth y ys a fyn thyng to do.
20:58:00 <myndzi> i'll replace your mom with a y
20:58:37 <pikhq> ehird: It doeþn't make Engliſh incomprehenſible, but only becauſe Engliſh is comprehenſible wiþout vowels.
20:58:54 <pikhq> Fr 'xmpl, cnſdr þs ſntnc.
20:59:12 <myndzi> i'd like to buy a vowel
20:59:31 <pikhq> 'nglſh 's vry wll ſrvd by 'n 'bjd.
20:59:34 <ehird> Ryplycying syqyncys of vowyls ypyrt from o ynd u wyth y ys a fun thyng to do. (Us yre sycryd.)
20:59:57 <pikhq> ' knw, bcs my cſtm wrtng ſyſtm 's 'n.
21:00:25 <myndzi> has started a new Hangman game!
21:00:28 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: Left: 10)
21:00:52 <myndzi> each letter counts as a guess
21:00:54 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: e Left: 9)
21:00:57 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþ Left: 7)
21:01:08 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþa Left: 6)
21:01:11 <myndzi> it doesn't count utf-8 properly
21:01:12 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas Left: 5)
21:01:18 <myndzi> i figured you guys were talkin about how you didn't like vowels
21:01:20 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas° Left: 4)
21:01:39 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas°r Left: 3)
21:01:42 <myndzi> (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas°rŧ Left: 1)
21:01:44 <myndzi> (Hangman) Game over! (Answer: godhood)
21:01:45 <myndzi> but that's not really true, this is just my favorite hangman word to use
21:02:04 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: Dammit, I was trying for -1 guesses left
21:02:22 <myndzi> probably would have worked too
21:02:24 <pikhq> Deewiant: It'd be even nicer to have -2.
21:02:46 <Deewiant> pikhq: Or -3. Of course, if it accepts -1 you can probably do any -n.
21:02:51 <myndzi> guess i spelled it wrong
21:02:51 <pikhq> Þough for þat, you'd need ſomeþing out of þe BMP, m'þinks.
21:03:15 <myndzi> actually, no it wouldn't have worked
21:03:21 <myndzi> it's seeing your utf-8 characters as separate letters
21:03:31 <myndzi> and it already has support for not going negative
21:04:00 <myndzi> myndzi has started a new Hangman game! (Hint: lols)
21:04:02 <myndzi> (Hangman) ????????? (Guessed: Left: 10)
21:04:08 <myndzi> (Hangman) ?o?e??i?? (Guessed: auy Left: 7)
21:04:09 <myndzi> !guess abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
21:04:09 <myndzi> (Hangman) Game over! (Answer: something)
21:04:20 <myndzi> one fun thing i used to do when i ran this script is
21:04:27 <myndzi> when i have a guess for the word,
21:04:35 <myndzi> i'd try to come up with a !guess that would say something and also win
21:04:47 <myndzi> (say the remaining letters in the correct order without running out of guesses, but in sentence form)
21:05:08 <myndzi> hmm, something's wrong
21:05:15 <myndzi> maybe it can't find the wordlist
21:05:40 <myndzi> .....or i could have forgotten my own syntax
21:06:02 <myndzi> !hang aeiouy ?o?e??i??
21:06:16 <ehird> !hang abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ?f?t?r??f
21:06:25 <myndzi> the letters are exclusions
21:06:42 <myndzi> aarrghh abalone abandon abasers abashed abashes abasias abasing abaters abating abators abattis abaxial abaxile abbotcy abdomen abduced abduces abducts abelian abelias abettal abetted abetter abettor abeyant abfarad abhenry abiders abiding abigail ability abioses abiosis abiotic abjured abjurer abjures ablated ablates ablauts ablings abluent abluted aboding abolish abollae abomasa abomasi aborted aborter
21:06:43 <myndzi> abought aboulia aboulic abounds abraded abrader abrades abreact abreast abridge abroach abrosia abscess abscise abscond abseils absence absents absinth absolve absorbs abstain absurds abubble abulias abusers abusing abusive abuttal abutted abutter abvolts abwatts abysmal abyssal abysses acacias academe academy acajous acaleph acanthi acapnia acarids acarine acaroid acaudal acceded acceder accedes accents
21:06:44 <myndzi> accepts accidia accidie acclaim accords accosts account accrete accrual accrued accrues accurst accusal accused accuser accuses acedias acequia acerate acerber acerbic acerola acerose acerous acetals acetate acetify acetins acetone acetose acetous acetyls achenes achiest achieve achiote acholia acicula acidify acidity aciform
21:06:52 <myndzi> i knew someone'd do that eventually :\
21:06:58 <myndzi> 'something' must not be in the ospd3
21:07:01 <myndzi> not the ideal wordlist i guess
21:07:01 -!- whtspc has joined.
21:07:23 <FireFly> Meh, I couldn't know what'd happen, could I?
21:07:36 <FireFly> [22:06:42] <myndzi> aarrghh
21:07:56 <myndzi> probably not a dictionary word
21:08:05 <myndzi> if someone wants to link me to a proper wordlist i'll put that in :P
21:09:00 <myndzi> if you wanna screw around there's also /msg myndzi !hangman #channel "word or phrase" hint text
21:09:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("But ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ").
21:10:18 <Deewiant> myndzi: Maybe http://rs249.rapidshare.com/files/81559933/1.5_Million_Word_List.rar is better
21:10:21 <FireFly> Do you always get 10 guesses?
21:10:43 <ehird> !hangman #esoteric "word or phrase" hint text
21:11:07 <myndzi> Deewiant: i have a bigger one but it's a little bit too big :)
21:11:21 <ehird> myndzi: that's what
21:11:32 <myndzi> Deewiant: it takes a long time to search
21:11:59 <myndzi> it's a silly mirc script
21:12:02 <myndzi> it just uses /filter with a regex
21:12:21 <FireFly> the problem isn't the size, it's what it's implemented in :P
21:12:23 <myndzi> which itself is reasonably fast, just not on 200mb files
21:12:37 <myndzi> none of the filtering is done in mirc script :) so it's pretty fast
21:12:49 <FireFly> I don't remember that much from when I scripted in mIRC
21:12:57 <myndzi> 200mb was the COMPRESSED version
21:12:58 <FireFly> But I remember that vars are stored in external files
21:13:07 <myndzi> that musta been a long time ago
21:13:15 <myndzi> they still are, but local variables are in memory
21:13:34 <myndzi> and i'm pretty sure the variable file is cached in memory too
21:13:44 <myndzi> but i'm reasonably certain it's not held in a hash table or something useful like that
21:13:58 <ehird> FireFly: But I remember that vars are stored in external files
21:14:00 <ehird> wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttt
21:14:25 <Deewiant> myndzi: A 200-megabytes-compressed wordlist? Nice.
21:14:42 <Deewiant> I think the biggest I have/had lying around is 70 uncompressed
21:16:15 <AnMaster> /dev/sr0: ERROR: cannot read `/dev/sr0' (Input/output error)
21:17:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, cd works in other computer. Guess I will have to shut down and check that every cable is properly attached...
21:17:38 <AnMaster> (since I had to move stuff around in the computer recently)
21:18:38 <myndzi> Deewiant: that's pretty much why it is slow :)
21:18:40 <AnMaster> very well. It isn't urgent, while other stuff is. And I will have to shut down soon anyway, since one of the fans in the computer is breaking down...
21:18:53 <AnMaster> the replacement one should arrive at Monday
21:19:54 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]").
21:20:29 <Deewiant> AnMaster: There are plenty of parts that could be broken in such a way that discs can't be read but the mechanism still works.
21:21:02 <Deewiant> (On the software side too, I guess.)
21:21:09 <AnMaster> well I do have some other old optical units... could use one of them
21:21:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and yes. rebooting is worth a try. later
21:21:33 * AnMaster wonders about streaming cd across network
21:21:41 <AnMaster> since the other computer is headless
21:21:58 <Deewiant> If your network is fast enough, the drive will be the bottleneck :-P
21:22:20 <AnMaster> cat /dev/sr0 | nc and nc | aplay ?
21:22:32 <AnMaster> but that seems like a bad solution
21:23:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, [computer with working cd player] - 100 mbps ethernet - [gbit ethernet switch] - gbit ethernet - [computer with speakers]
21:23:38 <AnMaster> but what is a good WAY to do it
21:23:53 <ehird> why is that a bad solution
21:23:56 <ehird> that's what nc is designed for
21:24:05 <Deewiant> ehird: It transmits the whole disc needlessly.
21:24:06 <AnMaster> ehird, well.. aplay directly won't work.
21:24:13 <Deewiant> cat /dev/foo is quite wasteful.
21:24:19 <AnMaster> I want to listen to the 5th track
21:24:22 <Deewiant> If he just wants to play a track
21:24:30 <ehird> ehm ripping a cd takes like 3 minutes
21:24:34 <ehird> shorter than you've been taling
21:24:38 <ehird> so why does it matter
21:24:45 <AnMaster> ehird, 3 minutes? the computer is an old pentium3
21:25:02 <ehird> it's IO-bound you doofus
21:25:11 <ehird> everything to do with CDs is IO-bound
21:25:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, iirc. might be 2x... *wonders how to check*
21:25:58 <AnMaster> there is no speed written on the drive itself
21:26:05 <Deewiant> So if you have a 650 MB disc that's 18 minutes
21:26:27 <Deewiant> Just ripping the one WAV that you want would take a lot less than that
21:26:32 <ehird> ... 650 MB disc that's 18 minutes?
21:26:44 <ehird> 'scuse me, what sort of huge 18 minutes is this?
21:27:08 <Deewiant> ehird: 650 MB / 0.6 MB/s = 18 minutes
21:27:51 <ehird> You meant, to rip.
21:27:56 <ehird> I thought you meant 18 minutes of audial content.
21:28:52 <AnMaster> anyway. It is 4x. Says cdparanoia
21:29:02 <Deewiant> Then it's the 0.6 MB/s I was using above.
21:31:05 <AnMaster> ehird, so those 3 minutes were a bit low estimate
21:31:16 <ehird> i was assuming a modern ~40x drive
21:31:24 <Deewiant> Well, you've been talking 15 minutes now ;-)
21:31:29 <AnMaster> ehird, the broken drive is 40x
21:31:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it as been ripping for ~7 minutes
21:32:02 <AnMaster> ehird, wait, it is 48x even...
21:33:43 <AnMaster> now reading on the "broken" drive works in cdparanoia. Not with file though
21:34:15 <AnMaster> it is finding the drive at /dev/sg1 instead of the usual /dev/sr0
21:34:15 <ehird> cdparanoia bypasses the device layr
21:34:23 <AnMaster> NOW THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL
21:34:48 <AnMaster> file -s /dev/sg0 can't read it still
21:38:30 <AnMaster> eject /dev/sg1 doesn't do anything, eject /dev/sr0 ejects the expected drive
21:40:29 <AnMaster> it behaves more sanely for data cds
21:41:03 <AnMaster> I mean, nothing can play them now
21:44:53 <AnMaster> ls shows a file is there. tab complete claimed it wasn't. Until I waited for half a minute
21:46:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw the music cd seems to have been a full 700 MB? I didn't know that was valid for music cds
21:46:52 <AnMaster> on the other hand I can't see a good reason for it to not be valid.
21:48:23 <AnMaster> track00.cdda.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
21:49:13 <AnMaster> od shows it is mostly zero bytes
21:49:21 <ehird> it's probably a data track
21:50:42 <AnMaster> ehird, http://pastebin.ca/1441501
21:51:14 <AnMaster> I was wondering what on earth this one was!
21:52:03 <AnMaster> well maybe cdparanoia -B generates that
21:52:08 <AnMaster> haven't noticed it before though
21:56:25 <AnMaster> ok... /dev/sg* seems to be character device access to drives (not sure which types of drives yet... since I have sg0 to sg3 and just two harddrives (one sata and one pata) and one cd/dvd drive...)
21:58:12 <AnMaster> why does it play so much lower than usual....
21:58:39 * pikhq observes that a music CD can have up to 800 MB.
21:59:01 <pikhq> A 700 MB CD-ROM has 100MB of data correction overhead.
22:10:58 <AnMaster> hm.. http://pastebin.ca/1441510
22:11:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:12:35 <AnMaster> that happens every time I try to read an *audio* cd
22:18:08 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Except at it's practically guaranteed to be flawed :P
22:18:41 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
22:21:11 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
22:22:25 <AnMaster> would this mean the issue is purely a software problem?
22:23:31 <AnMaster> since 1) only audio cd, 2) only accessing it using the usual sr interface that most software players use. 3) cdparanoia reads it using the sg interface. Not sure if it usually does that...
22:27:06 <pikhq> GregorR-L: No, it's not. A CDDA also contains error correction.
22:28:22 <GregorR-L> Not to my recollection, but þat's hardly my area of expertiſe :P
22:30:58 <pikhq> CDDA includes cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon coding.
22:32:10 <pikhq> Which is a slightly complex parity scheme.
22:50:02 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:17:09 <ehird> "Or were you referring to Intel macs, rather than Apple macs?"
23:17:16 <ehird> wwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt
23:26:55 <ais523> actually, what about IBM macs?
23:27:50 <ais523> I was drawing an analogy with Intel macs
23:33:26 -!- dbc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:42:16 <pikhq> IBM Macs? Well, IBM could in *theory* have gone into the Mac clone business when Apple allowed it.
23:42:52 <pikhq> It'd be funny if Intel made some Macs, though.
23:47:05 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:48:06 <ehird> Finding somewhere that sells OLED displays is hard.
23:48:16 <pikhq> The OS X EULA forbids installing OS X on "non Apple-labeled computers".
23:48:41 <ehird> pikhq: No, that loophole won't work.
23:48:51 <pikhq> ... Wouldn't sticking an Apple label on a computer work? :p
23:48:54 <ehird> They have the cash to paper over that loophole, you don't.
23:49:00 <ais523> people have discussed that quite a bit
23:49:08 <ehird> pikhq: but, nothing's stopping you ripping out the EULA
23:49:10 <ais523> although I can't remember what the conclusions were
23:49:17 <ehird> so that you never run it
23:49:23 <ais523> I think it was argued that the EULA meant "was labeled by Apple"
23:49:26 <pikhq> The more valid question is: does that count as an antitrust violation?
23:49:27 <ehird> although that's probably illegal too
23:49:37 <ais523> so it doesn't matter what sort of label's on there, just so long as Apple put it there
23:49:41 <ehird> apple are perfectly allowed to require their users only to sue it on their hardware
23:50:07 <ais523> myndzi: congrats on knocking defend9 off the top spot
23:50:21 <ais523> did you improve your programs, or is the hill just more hostile to defend9alikes now?
23:50:23 <pikhq> ehird: Unless it's determined that, in doing so, they are violating antitrust laws.
23:50:31 <ehird> pikhq: Burden of proof
23:50:34 <ais523> ehird: have you seen defend9 by the way? it's insane
23:50:44 <pikhq> Any such bundling, though probably legal, is a somewhat tricky area.
23:52:05 <pikhq> Not going to definitively say anything, of course, since, well, I don't have the time or give-a-damn to read hundreds of pages of legalese.
23:52:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:52:24 <pikhq> (I assume the US antitrust laws consume one or more volumes)
23:52:51 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Sounds about right.
23:54:46 * pikhq observes that if companies like Psystar were smart, they wouldn't have OS X preinstalled. They would instead have an EFI computer and a Darwin driver disk. Maybe also sell OS X discs.
23:56:01 <ehird> they can't legally sell OS X discs
23:56:05 <ehird> Psystar is simply an illegal business.
23:56:28 <ehird> i don't like their business at all
23:56:44 <pikhq> I assumed that you would read "Maybe" as "if they could get to be Apple authorised resellers somehow".
23:56:54 <ehird> Likelyhood of that: vanishingly small.
23:57:13 <pikhq> They could legally sell a computer with EFI and some Darwin drivers, though.
23:57:26 <ehird> Hackintoshes are stupid, just use Linux :P
23:57:36 <pikhq> After all, EFI is an open standard and Darwin is a free operating system.
23:58:11 <pikhq> Heck, they could even have a GNU/Darwin install on there and say "Supports the Darwin operating system, that is the base of Mac OS X (wink wink nudge nudge)."
23:58:35 <pikhq> But just straight up selling OS X on the computer preinstalled? Dumber than a sack of rocks.
23:58:54 <ehird> http://static.arstechnica.com/macpro0409/3neh_internalshr.jpg ← if there's one thing a mac pro has over a regular pc it's a well-designed interior...
23:59:14 <ehird> (That bottom compartment slots out.)
23:59:33 <ehird> (It's actually a separate daughterboard that the RAM is on.)
23:59:39 <ehird> (And the CPUs. Go figure.)
23:59:49 <ehird> Huh, those CPUs look fanless.
23:59:58 <ehird> Must be cooled by case fans. Or the fans are in the heatsink.