00:01:35 ere, now I have a plugin so all my text is properly ornified. 00:01:58 Nice I just have to be sure to type þat manually. 00:02:02 Now at nobody can understand me, I'm trying to maximize e ''s in is sentence. 00:02:15 Fortunately for me, þe compose key makes it raþer easy. 00:02:22 þe w00ts. 00:02:35 Not as easy as just auto-replace :P 00:02:40 s/Nice/Nice;/ 00:03:03 True. However, it's not hard to reach down and hit þe Windows key from time to time. 00:03:41 00:04:11 Þy þorniness is amazing. Doest þou concur? 00:04:23 Ye. 00:04:30 (I have a lip) 00:04:37 *Yeþ*? 00:04:44 Ah. Þat explains it, þen. 00:05:06 But can you do.. ðis? 00:05:07 at's ree key presses for you, right? And one is awkward. 00:05:20 Well, yeah. 00:05:27 SUCKS TO BE THOU 00:05:30 Whoops :P 00:05:33 I don't replace TH :P 00:05:35 Only :P 00:05:39 Err, only T h 00:05:50 I could stick compose on a somewhat more convenient key. Like, oh, I dunno. Shift key? Backspace? 00:06:23 It's not like I use backspace much; þere's Emacs combos for þat. 00:06:43 SUCKS TO BE OU 00:06:47 ere we go. 00:06:48 Fixt. 00:07:13 Þy moþer suckeþ! 00:07:38 ou art paetic ... e. 00:08:15 Even the passenger gets in trouble! D:þ 00:08:33 Slereah: Vi anakŭ. 00:08:35 Er. 00:08:37 Slereah: Vi anakaŭ. 00:08:38 Also, ine moer smelle as yonder jackass. 00:09:04 And thine father smelt of elderberries? 00:09:11 GregorR-L: But þy moþer was a hamster and þy faþer smelt of elderberries. 00:09:15 Darn 00:09:18 -!- inurinternet has joined. 00:09:34 FireFly: Use þine when one would use "mine" and þy when one would use "my". 00:09:42 ere just aren't enough ''s. 00:09:46 Ah, alright 00:10:20 y elderberries art ine. 00:11:56 Þat þey are. 00:12:43 And yet, m'þinkest þat þy þoughts are limitéd to þe berries of elder. Doest þou þink of oþer þings? 00:13:27 Hier and ier. 00:13:41 23:19 pikhq: Yes, Unicode will probably soon support a script that has been used for exactly one known document. ← voynich? 00:13:46 yeah 00:13:46 Ah, indeed. An interesting statement of þine. 00:13:50 ehird: Yeþ. 00:14:06 So, where's my orn porn? 00:14:15 (liþpþ are contagiouþ) 00:14:17 Thorn porn? 00:14:19 Ouch 00:14:41 Slereah: Þe letter þorn. 00:14:47 Rule irty-four. 00:15:27 Hmm 00:15:43 voynich in unicode would be nice 00:15:51 also klingon; the Bible and hamlet have been published in it iirc 00:16:22 ehird: 'Twould. 00:16:24 Can one make a thorn rotated 90°, lying on it's round part, with unicode? 00:16:42 Þere's also þe Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet, IIRC. 00:16:57 it's not as if unicode's filling up 00:17:15 We should use unicode codepoints as IP addresses. 00:17:28 GregorR-L: IPv6. 00:18:21 Erm. Never mind. Unicode is a 32-bit encoding. 00:19:33 You mean irty-two :P 00:19:52 pikhq: ipv6 is 128 isn't it 00:19:57 Ye. 00:20:27 Hm 00:20:31 also unicode uses slightly less than 32 bits 00:20:41 so you'd have to use a bit over 4 chars 00:21:08 IPv4 would be represented by two Unicode chars? (u0000 to uFFFF) 00:21:23 pikhq: unicode assigns 0-1114111 00:21:26 32-bit is 4294967296 00:21:41 ††† 00:21:53 pikhq: 21-bit is the smallest that can hold unicode 00:22:09 (=0x200000) 00:22:39 pikhq: so you need ~6.095 unicode characters to represent an ipv6 address 00:22:41 → 7 00:22:53 !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:23:04 Score for nescience_allornothing: 41.0 00:23:11 kinda amusing 00:23:17 nescience: how's that one work 00:23:25 looks sort of like i_keelst_thou 00:23:31 or was it thoust, I forget 00:23:41 i don't know, i didn't read that one 00:23:50 it skips one or two possible places for speed 00:23:57 then decs 127, 128, 129 with pauses and moves to the next 00:24:22 nescience: i_keelst_thou is basically set up some decoys, then 21 times, (-)*128, [-], next cell 00:24:31 so it advances really slowly, and avoids loopin 00:24:31 g 00:24:37 no loop in this one 00:24:40 yeah 00:24:42 it just reminded me of it 00:24:49 !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:24:59 start at 16 00:25:00 Score for nescience_allornothing: 52.6 00:25:02 ha. 00:25:25 "17th Century Damascus Blades Found to Contain Carbon Nanotubes" 00:25:28 Shit, those guys were high-tech. 00:26:06 !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.(>(+)*127-.-.)*11 00:26:16 Score for nescience_allornothing: 0.0 00:26:20 o_O 00:26:21 Apparently noing :P 00:26:24 !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.>(+)*127-.-.)*11 00:26:25 oh 00:26:30 copied one too many chars 00:26:34 i wonder why it's going slow 00:26:35 Score for nescience_allornothing: 26.3 00:26:35 !bfjoust i_keelst_thou_allornothing (>)*16((-)*128.->(+)*128.+>)*11 00:26:40 more hill crziness? 00:26:43 !bfjoust allornothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:26:46 Score for ehird_i_keelst_thou_allornothing: 26.9 00:26:48 heh 00:26:54 Score for nescience_allornothing: 51.4 00:27:09 !bfjoust allornothing >>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:27:20 Score for nescience_allornothing: 58.7 00:27:40 lol it beats my other two 00:27:44 making them lower on the hill :\ 00:28:44 got quite far with my interp today 00:28:59 !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*20>(+)*20)*5[>(-)*100[-].+] 00:29:02 just needs a bit of fixing, some additional stuff and I can hack up a contest infrastructure 00:29:10 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 27.1 00:29:14 Foo :( 00:29:38 !bfjoust allornothing ->>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:29:41 !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*20>(+)*20)*5[>[-].+] 00:29:55 ehird: cool 00:30:00 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 46.0 00:30:00 Score for nescience_allornothing: 47.4 00:30:08 !bfjoust allornothing >>(+)*19>(-)*19>>>>>>>>>>>(>(-)*127-.-.)*21 00:30:09 Define "contest infrastructure" in is context. 00:30:18 Score for nescience_allornothing: 55.7 00:30:32 he wants to do more than return w/l/t 00:30:55 !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>->+)*5[>[-].+] 00:31:07 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 34.3 00:31:10 Bah 00:31:22 !bfjoust pooper_scooper (>(-)*32>(+)*32)*5[>[-].+] 00:31:25 by the way, my vote is for something like wins = 5 points, ties = 2 or 3 points, loss = 0 points 00:31:32 Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 50.4 00:31:34 let's have the program that wins the most on top 00:31:38 :P 00:31:46 Define "contest infrastructure" in þis context. <--- þ <-- ? 00:31:51 "th" 00:31:58 uh... ok 00:31:59 but i bet it's not hard and soft th both? 00:32:00 Is EVERYBODY against my winning-against-important-programs-is-better style? 00:32:11 nescience: Yes, it is. 00:32:18 nescience: Not in Icelandic, but is is English. 00:32:30 GregorR, that sounds like a good idea! 00:33:06 at's how it works! >_< 00:33:17 Pat's 00:33:23 who is she? 00:33:24 And everybody complains about it. 00:33:31 at was an upper-case :P 00:33:37 As was at. 00:33:53 GregorR, why... 00:34:03 I've decided at e letter orn needs to come back. 00:34:21 GregorR, therhaths this isn't a very useful way to write 00:34:34 i always thought that þ is icelandic th 00:34:38 Only because you're not used to e letter orn :P 00:34:50 nooga: It is. But it was in English until about 200 years ago. 00:34:57 GregorR, what has porn got to do with it? 00:35:01 at's a totally wrong estimate :P 00:35:24 oh, i see 00:35:44 Looks like about 400-500 years. 00:35:55 But anyway, it's e most recent letter e English alphabet lost. 00:35:59 And I'm fighting to get it back! :P 00:36:05 GregorR, the difference is really small in this font. At this reading distance 00:36:14 Shakespeare probably used it, but þat's about as recent as it gets. 00:36:15 so I'm just going to read it as p 00:36:17 or P 00:36:18 AnMaster: at's perhaps why it's gone :P 00:36:23 pikhq: No way Shakespeare used it. 00:36:25 pikhq: No fekking way. 00:36:48 GregorR-L: 400-500 years? It's possible. 00:37:05 His work is about as late as it's even possible to guess, þough. 00:37:09 Erm. 00:37:12 Even possible. 00:37:19 Poible :P 00:37:49 GregorR, I do have a relative in Minneapolis called Pat. Quite a far off relative. 00:38:01 BTW, there's anoþer letter þat English lost more recently. 00:38:03 * nooga is starting to think about making SADOL based language with less minimal syntax 00:38:12 pikhq, which one? 00:38:22 Art þou familiar wiþ þe long S? 00:38:22 Anyway, I was actually asking is: Is everybody against my winning-against-important-enemies-gains-you-more-points ranking system? 00:38:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombgirl. 00:38:37 OH, I need to add at! 00:38:38 pikhq, fish? 00:38:42 err 00:38:44 f-ish 00:38:47 not "fish" 00:38:50 meh 00:39:12 pikhq, is it that one? 00:39:35 Anyway, I was actually asking þis: Is everybody against my winning-against-important-enemies-gains-you-more-points ranking system? <-- yes and no 00:39:41 I suggest: 00:39:47 -1 points for loosing 00:39:53 AnMaster: Yuh. 00:39:53 0 for draw 00:39:56 +1 for winning 00:40:04 00:32 GregorR-L: Is EVERYBODY against my winning-against-important-programs-is-better style? ← I support it 00:40:15 GregorR, what do you think about this simple one? 00:40:23 AnMaster: at's not "yes and no", at's firmly against my system :P 00:40:28 GregorR-L: Long s is awesome. :) 00:40:33 GregorR, define IMPORTANT program 00:40:34 AnMaster: at's how e "points" system works, but e "score" system is more complicated. 00:40:44 AnMaster: A program which itself has beat a lot of programs. 00:40:56 See http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES 00:40:58 GregorR, what exact values used for it 00:41:45 "This gives the scores a range of 0-100 through convoluted math I choose not to go in to." <-- is that the relevant bit 00:41:51 Nope 00:41:54 at's totally irrelevant. 00:42:02 GregorR, I want to know the exact forumla for the "is important" 00:42:08 It's ere. 00:42:22 * AnMaster writes a Þ -> Th filter... 00:42:26 e base score is e important part, e score is just multiplied up to put it in a "human" range. 00:42:36 AnMaster: at'll counter my t h -> filter :P 00:42:48 GregorR-L: i'm not complaining, it works ok 00:42:51 GregorR, that was the intention 00:42:51 GregorR-L: I þought þou wert going to use long S? 00:43:00 but i think that i prefer the other way is all 00:43:05 A hint: if it's not þe final s, use it. ;) 00:43:20 ſ FTW. 00:43:22 pikhq: Yeah, I'm trying to write at as a sed expression :P 00:43:23 i voiced it because ehird was talking about (possibly?) redoing the tournament structure 00:43:29 I am doing it 00:43:34 and I'm open to suggestions 00:43:52 I ink someing in between would probably be better, but I don't ink my system is bad :P 00:44:20 Sweet! I juſt found out what þe compoſe combination for it is. :) 00:44:34 oh? 00:44:42 (Þere is not a capital long S) 00:44:42 I think your system is pretty good, GregorR-L, but instead of winning against points, it should be win against score. Yes, this is an infinite regress, but if you can solve that it'll probably end up fairer. 00:44:46 AltGr-S maybe? 00:44:47 AnMaster: Compose f s 00:44:49 what it amounts to is, 00:44:56 Have some sort of base case. 00:44:57 pikhq, what is "compose" 00:44:59 two equally good programs can score widely differently 00:45:01 ehird: I desperately want to solve at, I haven't found a fixed point. 00:45:02 pikhq, is it "altgr"? 00:45:03 depending on how they do against each other 00:45:06 and i don't think that is desirable 00:45:09 No. 00:45:13 GregorR-L: I'll toy with stuff when I make my infrastructure ~tomorrow. 00:45:18 Altgr is someþing else entirely. 00:45:19 is it good idea to build a lang that allows to define custom infix operators just like functions ? 00:45:20 pikhq, where do I find the compose key then..... 00:45:21 Erm. 00:45:37 Altgr is ſomeþing elſe entirely. 00:45:40 .............. 00:45:41 AnMaster: Your space cadet keyboard. 00:45:49 ehird, assume I don't have one 00:45:52 but I guess pikhq does 00:45:54 AnMaster: Moſt keyboards don't have one. 00:45:56 AnMaster: Your life is terrible. Kill yourself. 00:45:59 pikhq, your have one? 00:46:06 Þiſ iſ a test. 00:46:10 ehird, I'm not as sensitive as you 00:46:11 He may have another kb with a compose key. 00:46:11 Uh, whoopſ. 00:46:13 I bound þe Windows key to compoſe. 00:46:15 Exactly e opposite of correct. 00:46:17 Using a space cadet keyboard would be hell. 00:46:20 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg 00:46:23 ehird, why hell 00:46:25 Tons of useless keys and no F-keys, etc. 00:46:40 keycode 133 = Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key 00:46:43 keycode 134 = Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key Multi_key 00:46:45 AnMaster: w/ a conventional OS, I mean. 00:46:45 ehird, I don't use F-keys often 00:46:47 Þis is a teſt. 00:46:50 Perfect :) 00:46:54 I'm in love with that keyboard 00:46:55 ^ xmodmap ſcript. 00:46:56 Anybody elſe want my annoying plugin? 00:47:04 GregorR-L: I'd love it. 00:47:05 Perfect :) <-- Therfect? 00:47:12 AnMaster: still, those greek things, "over strike", a bloody "help" key 00:47:13 AnMaſter: X-D 00:47:17 I can't tell the difference in this font 00:47:18 ... 00:47:18 Fuck, it even has turnstiles 00:47:19 pikhq: It's in Perl :( 00:47:21 wouldn't be useful for linux etc 00:47:24 GregorR, and that doesn't highlight me 00:47:26 so FAIL 00:47:30 pikhq: (Þe Pyþon infraſtructure ſeems to have problems and cauſe infinite recurſions) 00:47:30 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg << wtf, i want one 00:47:32 I'm sure he cares 00:47:39 nooga: just buy a used lisp machine 00:47:47 You mean a liſp machine. 00:47:49 GregorR, tell me when you fixed so it doesn't mess up highlighting 00:47:49 :P 00:47:49 ah, it's for lisp 00:47:50 makes more noise than an airplane and is a billion times slower than one, and also expensive 00:47:54 but damn is it lovely. 00:47:55 Is it for irſsi? 00:47:58 as i expected 00:47:58 (note: i don't have one) 00:48:00 pikhq: xchat 00:48:08 nooga: yeah, that's why () are unshifted 00:48:10 Curſes. 00:48:10 and [] are shifted 00:48:17 Congreſs 00:48:25 i did that change on this os x box before upgrading 00:48:26 it was quite nice 00:48:31 I use () a lot more than [], personally 00:48:43 BTW, one could juſt as well type 'irßi'. :p 00:48:46 wise 00:48:56 pikhq: Wrong language ;) 00:49:02 Yes, I know. 00:49:03 Each of these might, in addition, be typed with any combination of the "control", "meta", "hyper", and "super" keys. On this keyboard, it is possible to type over 8,000 different characters. This allowed the user to type very complicated mathematical text, and also to have thousands of single-character commands at their disposal. Many users were actually willing to memorise the command meanings of that many characters if it reduced typing time (this atti 00:49:06 tude shaped the interface of Emacs). [2] Other users, however, thought that so many bucky bits was overkill, and objected to this design on the grounds that such a keyboard can require three or four hands[1] to operate. 00:49:10 8,000 key combinations 00:49:18 ehird: ſo, got a fixed point ſolution? 00:49:25 GregorR-L: I'm thunkin' 00:49:43 nooga: yeah, that's why () are unshifted and [] are shifted <-- What layout has [] unshifted!? 00:49:51 ſuck þoo 00:49:54 AnMaster: US/UK QWERTY/DVORAK. 00:49:56 *Dvorak 00:49:57 this one has () shifted and [] altgred 00:50:03 O_o 00:50:06 ehird, but even in English () is more common than []! 00:50:16 Shifted [] = {}. () are on 9 and 0. 00:50:18 AnMaster: Yep, it's stupidus maximus. 00:50:38 7890 Shift: /()= AltGr: {[]} 00:50:53 [01:50:09] [...] () are on 9 and 0. 00:51:07 Yeah, that's hellish when games/stuff use the US/UK layout 00:51:16 ) gets turned to ( 00:51:27 FireFly, in games you can just remap keys usually 00:51:39 Yeah, but if one use standard settings 00:51:50 Try to write a happy smiley, and it's sad 00:51:56 :D 00:52:01 FireFly, err? 00:52:05 Yeah? 00:52:12 Our shift+9 = ) 00:52:12 FireFly, how would it be sad 00:52:18 UK shift+9 = ( 00:52:22 :) gets :( 00:52:27 :( is sad, as far as I know? 00:52:28 input would be read using current layout right? 00:52:40 US ſhift+9 = ( too 00:52:44 as in... it uses whatever OS uses 00:52:52 Huh, ſh ſhouldn't have a long s, ſhould it. 00:52:54 Well, I've had stuff which uses US/UK layouts 00:53:17 And overrides system settings, I guess 00:53:30 crappy programming 00:53:40 US shift+9 = ( too 00:53:49 GregorR, "too"? 00:53:51 ∂umb 00:54:03 Like UK 00:54:03 As in, just like the UK layout 00:54:04 if you want to read a string you should use the OS layout. 00:54:05 I guess 00:54:08 GregorR-L: 'ſh' ſhould have þe long s. However, ſs ſhould not. 00:54:21 pikhq: Þe conſtitution ſays oþerwiſe. 00:54:24 how about ∂ ? 00:54:28 if you are using it for action keys or whatever in a game then it might not work to do so 00:54:36 rather you want to read it based on position 00:54:51 GregorR-L: Erm. Þe ſecond 's' ſhouldn't be long in þat ſituation. 00:54:59 pikhq: Ah 00:55:01 Ü 00:55:17 nooga: ð, þou meanſt? 00:55:37 well I guess I HAVE to write that reverse-filter now 00:55:43 since this is unreadable in this font size 00:55:44 pikhq: ah, yes 00:55:47 fuck you both 00:55:51 Heh 00:55:56 00:53 AnMaster: crappy programming 00:56:01 for a game layout, the layout is important 00:56:03 not the bound letters 00:56:07 ehird, read all 00:56:08 so they just reused the code for the chat system, I'd assume 00:56:10 BEFORE 00:56:10 you 00:56:12 comment 00:56:17 AnMaster: No. 00:56:26 AnMaster: Þou ſhould uſe a better font, meþinks. 00:56:28 ehird, yes they shouldn't reuse it for chat system idiot 00:56:36 AnMaster: You're really angerable. It's funny. 00:56:37 pikhq, Dejavu Sans Mono 9 pt 00:56:57 What a coincidence. Þat'ſ what I'm uſing. 00:57:28 pikhq: anmaster's display is like 4dpi 00:57:41 Erm. Þinko on “Þat's”. 00:57:58 ehird: Þat's lamer þan fuck. 00:58:07 ehird, 86 dpi iirc 00:58:11 pikhq: Just like AnMaster! 00:58:15 OK, I þink I'm done wiþ all my Engliſh language changes. 00:58:16 OH BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 00:58:17 UUUUUUUUUU 00:58:18 UUUUURN. 00:58:31 GregorR, so you will revert to normal? 00:58:50 GregorR-L: Yeah, I þink you've got it all coveréd. 00:58:56 pikhq: I alſo added æ and œ 00:59:02 i Þink Þat Þiſ whole ſtyle haſ a future 00:59:05 oh god 00:59:13 Nice. 00:59:17 nooga: Improper uſe of ſ 00:59:28 nooga: You're doing it wrong. 01:00:04 However, I certainly þink þis has a future. If only in þis chatroom. 01:00:04 what'ſ Þe rule? 01:00:15 nooga: Only when not at e end of e word. 01:00:27 nooga: Not at the end of a word, not after a ſ. 01:00:50 Oh, and not before an f. 01:00:57 ſucks ? 01:01:20 So, one types "ſatisfaction", not "ſatiſfaction". 01:01:40 Alſo, there's not a capital long s. 01:01:49 gööd 01:01:50 GregorR, so þ => th ſ => s ? 01:01:57 what other changes did you make 01:02:10 AnMaster: ae = æ, oe = œ. 01:02:29 Encyclopædia 01:02:29 what are the upper case versions 01:02:31 I juſt added þe more abſurd changes of þy and þys :P 01:02:37 Errr, ſcrewed þat up. 01:02:43 Æ Œ ? 01:03:01 y face is ugly! 01:03:03 :P 01:03:05 It works! 01:03:06 Muahahahaha 01:03:18 so does mine! :) 01:03:22 a filter? 01:03:26 " Thy face is ugly!" 01:03:29 yes! 01:03:29 :( 01:03:40 GregorR-L: In early Engliſh typography, ss = ß. 01:03:45 You could add þat. ;) 01:03:46 pikhq: ſRſLY? 01:03:47 AnMaster agrees to the statement? 01:04:00 Yes. 01:04:02 piß 01:04:03 FireFly, which statement 01:04:09 [02:03:26] " Thy face is ugly!" 01:04:09 [02:03:29] yes! 01:04:09 pikhq: I don't ſee þat anywhere on þis Wikipedia page. 01:04:11 So, it would be "In Congreß Aßembled." 01:04:16 GregorR, no 01:04:20 FireFly, ^ 01:04:21 pikhq: Except it iſn't. 01:04:26 Heh 01:04:28 it was "yes" as in "yes it works" 01:04:33 I figured 01:04:33 GregorR-L: http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Blog/Images/TrueCopie_1585_AII.jpg 01:04:39 *Early*. ;) 01:04:54 Aß 01:05:23 Huh, ere it is. 01:05:27 And þat's clearly Engliſh. 01:05:52 Early modern, certainly, but definitely þe ſame language. 01:06:45 Heh, no more need to learn german für mich~ 01:07:02 Although I still like the language 01:08:50 http://paſtebin.ca/1440365 01:09:26 X-D 01:09:31 http://paſtebin.ca/1440365 01:09:36 Uh ohs :P 01:09:38 LMAO 01:09:39 http://pastebin.ca/1440365 01:09:42 Got it :P 01:09:44 Heh 01:09:47 Holy... 01:10:09 Gregor. When I copied the firſt one into my browſer, it converted ſ into s. 01:10:18 ſweet :P 01:10:38 BTW, ſtop þe replacement for capital S. 01:10:45 Þat ſhould always be S. 01:10:58 ORLY? 01:11:19 Done. 01:11:23 Silly ough. 01:11:37 Time for me to ſleep 01:11:45 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:11:50 Yeah. It's juſt þat þere's not a long capital S. 01:12:17 pikhq: Yeah, but þey ſhouldn't have to ſhare a capital wiþ 's' :P 01:12:46 Fair enough. :) 01:13:25 GregorR-L: It seems to me like you could go further. 01:13:39 ehird: It ſeems to me like you could þink of a fixed point algoriþm for þe hill :P 01:13:44 <_< 01:13:45 Poßible. 01:13:57 GregorR-L: In that image you linked, the s-as-wavy-f-like-thing is there. 01:14:01 And also there are some nicks on top of e and o. 01:14:07 (In what looks like "aprrhelfio") 01:14:10 Er, what pikhq linked. 01:14:33 ehird: I linkéd þat. 01:14:39 Er, what pikhq linked.← 01:14:45 Yeah, Idonno what at is. 01:14:48 Þose are ſome older ligatures þat you're ſeeing. 01:15:12 LaTeX can output þat wiþ þe right options. 01:15:38 But þere is no Unicode characters it ſeems. 01:16:16 No; þat's juſt a typeſetting þing, you ſee. 01:16:26 'spretty, though 01:16:28 Shore ſhore 01:19:47 GregorR, I made some adjustments 01:19:50 please speak 01:19:51 ? 01:19:54 OK 01:19:56 Þis is me ſpeaking. 01:20:00 meh 01:20:03 it doesn't work 01:20:05 any more 01:20:08 * GregorR-L wins! 01:20:13 now it works again 01:20:56 Þis is me ſpeaking. 01:22:59 GregorR, again please 01:23:07 it is still slightly buggy 01:23:25 well? 01:24:25 Þis is me ſpeaking. 01:24:30 Sorry, was elſewhere. 01:24:36 But en, SO'S Y FACE. 01:24:40 hm 01:24:43 almost 01:25:57 Isn't this just s/Þ/Th/g ; s/þ/th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ? 01:26:15 so it is.. the issue was hooking in properly with irc client 01:26:45 and I can't do anything about your replace being lossy 01:26:56 so there was a "ThY" yes 01:30:36 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 01:30:38 Eh 01:30:48 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 01:31:53 GregorR-L: Green? 01:35:13 ehird: ...? 01:35:27 GregorR-L: It is merely a question, bitch. 01:35:56 fungot, there? 01:35:57 AnMaster: " people come to visit granny weatherwax?' 01:36:05 ok. that is broken... 01:36:19 I hate you GregorR for this extra work I had to do 01:36:33 lawl 01:36:46 fungot, there? 01:36:47 AnMaster: the correction appeared to pass unnoticed. 01:37:13 fungot, .. 01:37:14 AnMaster: ' ten days ago. can't remember where.' lu-tze scanned the sky. 01:38:01 fungot, ok? 01:38:01 AnMaster: ' fine,' said mrs ogg cheerfully. ' and wouldn't it be nice if you didn't do somewhere else. it's a strong nail," said the lecturer in recent 01:38:11 right. Now it works for every other channel.... 01:38:42 ^ul (...)S 01:38:43 ... 01:39:14 artificial 01:39:15 ehird, how do you compare strings in python btw... I'm trying to do this in the bouncer... 01:39:20 AnMaster: == 01:39:29 ok then that wasn't the issue... 01:39:43 ^ul (...)S 01:39:44 ... 01:39:54 ah found it... 01:40:24 ^ul (two words )S 01:40:24 two words 01:40:27 right 01:41:18 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:41:18 two wordsÞ Þ 01:42:15 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:42:16 two wordsÞ Þ 01:42:22 UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128) 01:42:23 what 01:42:27 ehird, any idea? 01:42:35 AnMaster: What it says. 01:42:57 ehird, so how do I operate on unicode in python 01:43:09 Using the unicode type and the functions designed for it. 01:43:11 read the docs 01:43:14 print for debugging shows 'two words\xc3\x9e \xc3\x9e' 01:43:24 is what I get 01:43:31 hm 01:43:33 -!- goonx has joined. 01:43:41 I wonder where you can get a laptop chassis. 01:43:42 ehird, I guess I have to cast it to unicode then... 01:43:43 hi, anyone good in brainfuck? 01:43:48 AnMaster: "cast"? No. 01:43:52 ehird, then what 01:43:54 AnMaster: You have to handle encodings. 01:44:09 'cos I have just a theory question 01:44:16 ehird, print message shows 'two words\xc3\x9e \xc3\x9e' 01:44:24 AnMaster: Read. 01:44:24 The. 01:44:26 Documentation. 01:44:28 goonx: oh 01:44:29 ? 01:44:32 ehird, which part. it is very huge 01:44:41 AnMaster: Read the table of contents, goddamn. 01:44:42 is it possible to write simply malware code in BF? 01:44:49 goonx: ............................ What? 01:44:51 Ha 01:44:51 (pikhq) 01:44:52 or in other esoteric languages? 01:44:57 goonx: define malware 01:45:03 and why on earth do you want to do this 01:45:05 Not generally, þey moſtly have no acceſs to any OS ſervices. 01:45:44 i'm like analyzing malware code, so i ask if that code could be written in esoteric languages 01:46:01 goonx: By "analyzing malware code", you mean "I want to give BF malware to someone" 01:46:06 Don't deny it. 01:46:11 Hahaha 01:46:17 no 01:46:18 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 01:46:35 goonx: Okay then, "intrepid malware research specialist" 01:46:38 -!- Jake_ has joined. 01:46:41 sometimes i "hunt" for some malwares, download it on my P, and watch how the are running 01:46:58 goonx: That involves neither analyzing nor code. 01:47:06 That's just theater. 01:47:08 like using disassemblers, debugger, hexeditors, etc 01:47:16 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:47:16 two wordsÞ Þ 01:47:16 You din't say that. 01:47:19 yay 01:47:32 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:47:32 two wordsÞ Þ 01:47:42 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:47:43 two wordsÞ Þ 01:47:44 ehird, could you paraphrase? 01:47:52 goonx: ? 01:48:16 "That involves neither analyzing nor code." and "That's just theater.", could you rewrite that sencente using another words? 01:48:24 sorry, i'm not a native speaker 01:48:46 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:48:47 two wordsÞ Þ 01:49:17 ^ul (two wordsÞ Þ )S 01:49:18 two wordsÞ Þ 01:49:23 perfect 01:49:28 goonx: First one was a reply to [[01:46 goonx: sometimes i "hunt" for some malwares, download it on my P, and watch how the are running ]], saying that what you said doesn't actually mean analyzing and doesn't involve code. "That's just theater" meant: that's just watching it for entertainment. But then you clarified, mentioning disassemblers and debuggers, so I said "you didn't say that". (din't being a variation on didn't for no apparent reson) 01:49:31 *reason 01:49:47 now just to remove the debug output 01:50:34 yup, but after I see how they're running, I could see, which programming language was used to write them 01:50:48 in most of cases it was ASM, C, C++, Delphi, etc 01:50:57 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 01:51:00 can you recognize fortran? 01:51:03 goonx: Well, in Brainfuck, the most interaction with the non-brainfuck systems you can do is inputting one character and outputting one character (character = letter, symbol etc) 01:51:10 have nebver found esoteric language (or my analyzing skills are too low to check that) 01:51:19 Well, moſt eſolangs have no acceſs to OS features, and even if þey did nobody would uſe þem for malware :P 01:51:20 goonx: Esolangs are generally interpreted, not compiled. 01:51:30 What GregorR-L said (although it may be hard to read with his odd letters.) 01:51:36 goonx: esolangs aren't quite useful for such tasks 01:51:41 (ſ = s, þ = th) 01:51:55 pikhq: remember when we talked about high-DPI displays? 01:52:02 ......................... ¿Malware? In Brainfuck? 01:52:07 ehird: Yes? 01:52:12 i just asked about it, 'cos it was something like a curiosity for me ;) 01:52:19 ^ul (Testing: th:þ Th:Þ s:ſ ae:æ Ae:Æ oe:œ Oe:Œ)S 01:52:19 Testing: th:þ Th:Þ s:ſ ae:æ Ae:Æ oe:œ Oe:Œ 01:52:24 yay 01:52:24 pikhq: I may have occasion to actually buy a >150DPI display quite soon as part of a project. 01:52:26 perfect match 01:52:29 Testing: th:th Th:Th s:s ae:ae Ae:Ae oe:oe Oe:Oe 01:52:52 goonx: It's kinda impoſsible, aſide from PSOX. 01:52:56 Þere are very few 'æ's in Engliſh anyway. 01:52:56 GregorR-L, so say that line again. Lets see if it works for you too 01:52:58 ehird: Noice. 01:53:00 What? 01:53:15 þ:þ Þ:Þ s:ſs æ:æ Æ:Æ œ:œ Œ:Œ 01:53:23 GregorR-L: Þere are in Britiſh Engliſh. 01:53:29 pikhq: True. 01:53:30 pikhq: Specifically, around, say, a 10" display @ 1280x1024. (= 163dpi, 0.155mm dot pitch) 01:53:31 GregorR, odd... why wasn't eſolangs translated when you said it 01:53:34 very odd 01:53:37 pikhq: For a "homebrew netbook" project. 01:53:41 AnMaster: hard/soft s? 01:53:44 ok, so thanks for help me :) 01:53:52 ehird, um? What 01:53:52 goonx: no problem 01:53:54 "Fœtus", for example. 01:53:55 I originally had stuff to prevent malware via PSOX.. but ehird removed it 01:53:58 AnMaster: Look it up 01:54:01 ehird: Spiffy. 01:54:04 Sgeo: Yes, because it was ridiculous :P 01:54:10 pikhq: I'm not sure you can buy such displays, though. 01:54:13 Sounds ridiculous. 01:54:17 ehird, I just do string replace: string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s") <-- why didn't that work once 01:54:22 high-dpi stuff seems to tend to be either big or really small 01:54:31 AnMaster: ? 01:54:32 if I wanted to write malware to domage, i wouldn't ask here :P 01:54:44 * pikhq goes back to Fullmetal Alchemiſt 01:54:46 goonx: And preſumably you wouldn't write it in Brainfuck :P 01:54:49 -!- Jake_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5b4/20090423204732]"). 01:54:53 ehird, string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s") still left "eſolangs" 01:55:02 esoteric languages are;nt as powerfull ;anguages as C or ASM, where you can do everything you want much easier ;) 01:55:03 AnMaster: That should not happen. 01:55:16 ehird, agreed! 01:55:54 pikhq: Oh, also. 01:56:03 pikhq: It's not just a ~160dpi display. It's also OLED. 01:56:06 Yes, that OLED. 01:56:24 I may have to DIY my own display. ;) 01:56:25 s = string.replace(s, u"þ", "th") 01:56:25 s = string.replace(s, u"Þ", "Th") 01:56:25 s = string.replace(s, u"ſ", "s") 01:56:27 and so on 01:56:29 ok, good night ;), or bye (dunno whch timezone you have :P) 01:56:34 that seems a bit... verbose 01:56:41 !addinterp gregor sh sed 's/þ/th/g ; s/Þ/Th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ; s/æ/ae/g ; s/Æ/Ae/g ; s/œ/oe/g ; s/Œ/Oe/g' 01:56:42 Interpreter gregor installed. 01:56:45 also I feel uncomfortable with the mutable variables! 01:56:47 :( 01:56:48 !gregor Þis is in Gregoriſh! 01:56:49 This is in Gregorish! 01:56:51 :P 01:56:55 !gregor This is in Gregorish! 01:56:55 This is in Gregorish! 01:56:55 -!- goonx has quit ("MegaIRC v3.97 http://ironfist.at.tut.by"). 01:56:56 what? 01:57:02 AnMaster: LAWL 01:57:04 !addinterp gregor sh sed 's/th/th/g ; s/Th/Th/g ; s/s/s/g ; s/ae/ae/g ; s/Ae/Ae/g ; s/oe/oe/g ; s/Oe/Oe/g' <-- huh? 01:57:05 Hahahahah 01:57:05 You suffer for your sins. 01:57:12 REPENT AND REMOVE THE EVIL 01:57:12 Haaaaaaaaaaahahahahah 01:57:21 ehird, I like it this way! 01:57:23 :) 01:57:47 AnMaſter: OBTAIN A BETTER MONITOR, ÞOU IGNOBLE KNAVE! 01:57:58 I could encode things by writing th or to represent binary digits 0 and 1 :P 01:58:10 pikhq, that didn't highlight me for some unknown reason 01:58:17 even though it looked perfectly normal 01:58:19 ... 01:58:38 :D 01:58:44 Sweet. 01:58:47 AnMaster: OBTAIN A BETTER MONITOR, ThOU IGNOBLE KNAVE! <-- your original convert is lossy 01:58:52 AnMaster: BUTTS 01:59:09 ehird, what about those 01:59:10 Of courſe it's loſsy. 01:59:24 AnMaſter: No, it's not. I'm not 'converting'. I am *typing* þorn. 01:59:33 ah 01:59:35 Typing pornography 01:59:38 Yeah, but ſo's þy face. 01:59:40 Oh yeah, mash my keys harder, bitch. 01:59:44 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:00:00 Alſo, take ſome eßes. <-- fun.. why didn't THAT one convert... 02:00:00 ehird: How's y algo goin? 02:00:08 how does that ſ differ 02:00:09 GregorR-L: I AM DOING OTHER THINGS BITCH 02:00:11 from the other one 02:00:15 pikhq, tell me 02:00:20 ehird: I'm doing oer bitches, ing! 02:00:26 :( 02:00:30 GregorR-L: I THOUGHT YOU WERE FAITHFUL 02:00:43 I'm pagan. 02:00:45 It's not an ſ. It's an ß. 02:00:46 Or ſomeþing :P 02:00:59 Oooh, "ſomeþing" is a good'n :P 02:01:05 pikhq, ... there are two unconverted ones in it 02:01:24 three even 02:02:12 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:02:13 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:02:24 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:02:24 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:02:30 !gregor Gregor dœſn't uſe ß. 02:02:31 Gregor doesn't use ß. 02:02:44 Oooh, dœſn't is anoþer good'n :þ 02:02:55 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:02:55 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:03:06 AnMaster: Uh. I win? 02:03:06 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:03:06 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:03:28 pikhq, sure. What is the secret behind those non-converting ſ 02:03:31 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome ees.)S 02:03:31 Alſo, take ſome ees. 02:03:36 wait that one worked 02:03:37 huh 02:03:45 AnMaster: Compoſe? 02:03:47 must be a unicode encoding bug 02:03:55 AnMaster: Ðo, can you handle ðhis? I am a dæmon of eðnic proportions. 02:03:58 pikhq, didn't properly translate back 02:04:02 in AnMaster: Compoſe? 02:04:11 You fail ſomeþing awful. 02:04:17 A demon of ethnic proportions? 02:04:18 pikhq, is it utf-8 02:04:30 Yes, it is. 02:04:46 It damned well better be; I *am* uſing en_US.UTF8 in urxvt. 02:04:50 GregorR-L: Yeð. 02:04:55 ^ul (Compoſe?)S 02:04:55 Compoſe? 02:04:57 ok 02:04:59 that one did work 02:05:12 Liðt proceðthing. 02:05:16 Er. 02:05:22 Liðt proceðing. 02:05:25 :D My setup on EpicMafia is liked by one of the best EM players :D 02:05:30 I laugh in þy general direction, ðou ſimpleton. 02:05:43 pikhq: Actually, ð never appears as the first letter. 02:05:53 True story. 02:06:13 ehird: Mmkay. Good to know. 02:06:13 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:06:13 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:06:23 oh unicode decode error, as I expected 02:06:25 ðuck you! 02:07:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:07:52 oh 02:09:29 I gueſs it ſucks to be þou, þen? 02:09:30 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:09:31 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:09:45 Heheh. ſucks. Þat's a good one. 02:10:06 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:10:06 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:10:11 better 02:10:16 still something wrong 02:10:20 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome ees.)S 02:10:21 Alſo, take ſome ees. 02:10:23 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:10:24 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:10:49 Lawlz. 02:10:51 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:10:51 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:11:00 RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp 02:11:01 um 02:11:07 ₤awlz, I ſhould ſay. 02:11:22 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:11:34 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:11:34 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:11:38 yay 02:11:51 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome ees.)S 02:11:52 Alſo, take ſome ees. 02:12:21 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome ees.)S 02:12:22 Alſo, take ſome ees. 02:12:24 ^ul (Alſo, take ſome eßes.)S 02:12:24 Alſo, take ſome eßes. 02:12:28 perfect 02:12:29 and well 02:12:36 I won't bother translating ß 02:12:47 the issue is that unicode isn't trivial in python 2.x 02:12:59 it is in python 3 02:13:22 night 02:14:07 Failure. 02:14:21 Tcl has been doing Unicode for nearly ten years now. 02:15:36 AnMaster: You're an idiot. 02:15:42 Unicode in py3k = python 2.0 unicode. 02:15:54 unicode just became the type of "aaa", instead of str. 02:16:00 and str got renamed to bytestring or whatever 02:19:46 Unicode ſhouldn't matter here 02:19:53 Even if you juſt replace þe raw bytes of ß, it ſhould work. 02:21:29 So, I gueſs þat Pyþon ſucks. :p 02:21:45 pikhq: No, AnMaster just sucks at Python. 02:21:50 I'm sure there are terrible Tcl coders too. 02:21:56 * pikhq is ever-ſo-tempted to uſe "ß" in that 02:22:08 ehird: Probably. I kill þem. 02:22:25 I ſtill need to get around to ſtabbing Larry McVoy. 02:28:04 Funny, becauſe I need to get around to f-tabbing Larry McVoy 02:32:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:32:54 PATASHU I CHOOSE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 02:33:18 shu! 02:33:23 actually the etymology of my name has no roots in pokemon 02:33:36 It didn't even occur to me until juſt now :P 02:34:25 how are all things esoteric 02:34:37 We're ſpeaking in broken middle Engliſh now. 02:35:19 (I ſtarted þat) 02:41:44 GregorR-L: You farted that? 02:41:47 I see. 02:48:29 GregorR-L: We're uſing Early Modern Engliſh. And aſide from our ſpelling being a bit more modern, 'tis perfectly correct. 02:48:49 pikhq: OK, ſo it's VERY broken Middle Engliſh :P 02:49:07 fuck 02:49:26 It's only ſlightly broken Middle English. 02:49:33 Erm. Engliſh. 02:50:19 Middle Engliſh waſn't very different from Early Modern Engliſh. Juſt þe pronunciation of everyþing. 02:50:33 So's y face. 02:50:51 Þat's þe only place I've uſed þe y o u r -> þy tranſlation :P 02:50:56 ugh 02:51:15 Nice work, good ſir Gregor. 02:52:10 mmmm fresh lemonade 02:52:16 i thought we had measuring cups but apparently we don't 02:52:26 Unicode dœſn't have hieroglyphs, dœs it? :( 02:52:39 so i made do with the citrus juicer's measurement for a cup of sugar 02:52:43 and a pint glass for 1.5 quarts 02:52:43 :P 02:52:45 GregorR-L: No, but Unicode 6.0 definitely will. 02:53:05 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou doþ not talk to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 02:53:25 what WON'T unicode 6 include? 02:53:33 I'm þinking þat þou're iſn't a word :P 02:54:25 Patashu: Voynich, Klingon, Tengwar, and my perſonal writing ſyſtem. 02:54:48 which is? 02:55:12 ehird: Unrepreſentable. 02:55:19 ? 02:55:28 I'm the only one þat uſes it. ;) 02:55:34 heh 02:56:30 Moſtly, I uſe it to jot down notes. And I only created it becauſe my high ſchool's freſhman ſcience courſe was very, very boring. 02:57:11 I have one of þoſe. 02:57:14 I even have a font for it. 02:57:32 PNG example, pleaſe? 02:57:48 i want one of them 02:57:49 bye 02:57:53 * pikhq is ſomewhat curious, þou seëst 02:58:27 http://codu.org/odikeh/Odikeh.ttf 03:00:27 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 03:00:31 Not a PNG example, good ſir. 03:00:43 LAZY 03:01:33 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 03:21:18 FORBLEBORBLE 03:55:12 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 04:51:10 I added "dœs" and "has" to my tranſlator. 04:51:18 Erm, apparently I didn't add "ha" 04:51:56 Oh, I ſee what happened þere. 04:51:57 Fixy 04:52:16 ʇɪ оp plnоɥѕ əuоʎɹəʌə lооɔ оѕ ѕ͵ʇɐɥʇ 04:52:20 ¿ʇɥɓɪɹ ɪ ɯɐ ɹо ʇɥɓɪɹ ɪ ɯɐ 04:52:22 I added "doþ" and "haþ" to my tranſlator. 04:52:38 You're ſo right! 04:52:50 I ſhould change "you're" to "þou art" 04:53:21 thou'rt would work 04:53:25 and be more accurate 04:53:39 but of course, you might want to actually use "you're" 04:53:47 you can't really search and replace one tense into two 04:53:59 i think tense is the wrong term there 04:54:03 but i can't think of the correct one 04:54:28 Yuh 04:54:58 "grammatical person", i guess 05:00:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:06:06 Having fun wiþ þy Unicode, ſirs and fellows? 05:06:21 BTW, hello, Ørjan. 05:06:31 good moaning 05:07:29 GregorR-L: Alſo, “doþ” and “haþ” aren't always correct. 05:07:55 Only when uſing “þee”, “þou”, etc. 05:08:32 erm surely third person verb with þou is incorrect 05:08:43 *þird 05:09:23 and the object form þee is irrelevant to verbs. 05:10:37 oerjan: Indeed, þou art correct. I'm not ſure how to phraſe what I was meaning to say, but what I ſaid is, frankly, wrong. ;) 05:11:51 wow. I actually had an opportunity to use "yes" today. the unix command. 05:12:58 next, you might have an opportunity to use "nl" 05:13:04 Gracenotes: Þat fills me wiþ much glee. 05:13:30 enough with your thorny attitude, young man! 05:14:21 But we've been doing it for hours! Really, look at all of þe ſtrings of text above þis line! 05:14:41 oh gawsh. even long s. 05:14:57 worse than I thought 05:15:02 Indeed. I blame Gregor for ſtarting it. 05:15:55 don't forget about all the grammatical forms either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou#Comparison 05:16:13 perhaps harder to automatically convert 05:16:37 Yes, yes. I'm not doing automatic converſion, I'm doing þis by hand. 05:17:00 Þus why þere's a few ſlipups here and þere. 05:17:42 I can't read anything in here 05:18:48 Pataſhu: UNICODE FAIL. 05:19:00 Come back wiþ a *real* terminal. 05:19:10 Here's a nickle for þe coſt. 05:19:54 really, the replacement here is regular 05:20:13 nooo they be stealing mah unicodes 05:20:37 Gracenotes: I'm raþer picky about it. Bit ſlower þan it would normally be to type, mind, but no ſed from me. 05:21:12 *Gregor*, on þe oþer hand... He's juſt ſilly, wiþ his Xchat ſcript to do it all for him. ;p 05:22:01 -__- 05:22:03 (oo)\_______ < Unicode?? Don't forget about me! 05:22:05 (__)\ )\/\ 05:22:07 ||----w | 05:22:09 || || 05:22:18 what is that 05:22:20 MOOnicode? 05:22:23 HAR HAR HAR 05:22:24 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 05:22:25 Hi þere, Larry! 05:22:32 myndzi: Larry þe Cow. 05:22:50 21:05.30 < pikhq> Having fun wiþ þy Unicode, ſirs and fellows? <- this should be "your" :) 05:23:01 whoops 05:23:03 efb? 05:23:09 all these silly symbols make it hard to read 05:23:21 that's the UniCOW, clearly! 05:23:25 Þou fail'ſt. 05:23:30 oh wait 05:23:33 the essense of it is "thee, thy, thou, thine" etc are second person singular (speaking to one person) 05:23:40 i don't think that's an udder 05:23:49 you, your, you, yours is second person plural (speaking to many) 05:23:50 oerjan: I think you've been ASCII-ng too much 05:23:58 myndzi: Yes, yes. I ſcrew up, even þough I know better. 05:24:00 myndzi: "you" is also singular 05:24:09 oh, you mean in Old English 05:24:11 never mind 05:24:13 Gracenotes: been reading my eodermdrome drawings? 05:24:14 Raþer, I *ought* to know better. 05:24:23 Gracenotes: Not Old Engliſh. 05:24:31 Early Modern Engliſh. 05:24:32 older English, then. 05:24:44 Victorian era. 05:24:44 whatevs. 05:24:44 we cool, bitch. 05:25:00 pikhq: er. right :) 05:25:01 Old Engliſh has more in common wiþ Dutch or Norwegian. 05:25:09 oic 05:25:10 Victorian? No. Not only no but hell no. 05:25:17 Elizabeþan, maybe. 05:25:18 ;p 05:25:41 just do it like in brave fencer musashi! 05:25:45 Þis would've ſeemed a tiny bit archaic to Shakespeare. 05:25:49 add -st or -est to random words 05:25:58 it doesn't matterest if they arest verbs or nounsest 05:25:59 :P 05:26:00 s/Shakespare/Shakeſpeare/ 05:26:22 * pikhq ſtabbeth myndzi 05:26:23 * myndzi ſtabbeth pikhq 05:26:36 pikhq: fine then. I'll make you pay for your knowledge of English linguistics >:[ 05:26:40 pikhq: you correct nonexisting typos now? 05:26:40 Þou art ſtabbéd. 05:27:07 I am somewhat familiar with the locution of older English. Just not the history :) 05:27:13 stai stabbato, or something 05:27:14 oerjan: 'Twas a typo; þe ſhort S was wrong þere. 05:27:27 pikhq: oh wait 05:27:57 * oerjan saw only þe missing e 05:28:19 irssi is so helpful, turning long s's into short ones 05:28:41 pikhq: I look'd 'em up in e dictionary. 05:28:51 "does" = "doth", "has" = "hath" 05:28:54 e definitions are identical. 05:29:31 that's because they are different forms of the same word? 05:29:31 oerjan: Why didſt þou make irſsi change long S to ſhort‽ 05:29:32 :P 05:29:56 pikhq: because my terminal only doth latin-1 05:30:47 oerjan: UNICODE FAIL. 05:31:04 * oerjan looks in the web logs, and wonders if long s _really_ should have that upper left spike... 05:31:06 speaking of unicode fail 05:31:08 /exec -o locale 05:31:09 ? 05:31:16 let's see how many people in here have misconfigured terminals! 05:31:18 DCC SEND 01›30;40m stopspy echo j | format c: +++ATH0 ›27;32p›13;32p›0;0;32p›3;32pt›2J[2Jterminal'd ›30;40;5m$ 05:31:34 unicode flail 05:31:35 myndzi: Hilarious. 05:31:40 (and/or irc clients) 05:31:46 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 05:31:46 myndzi: or routers 05:31:46 LC_CTYPE="C" 05:31:46 LC_NUMERIC="C" 05:31:46 LC_TIME="C" 05:31:46 LC_COLLATE="C" 05:31:49 LC_MONETARY="C" 05:31:51 LC_MESSAGES="C" 05:31:54 LC_PAPER="C" 05:31:56 LC_NAME="C" 05:31:59 LC_ADDRESS="C" 05:31:59 Gracenotes: i was only really interested in the utf-8 hax 05:32:01 LC_TELEPHONE="C" 05:32:04 LC_MEASUREMENT="C" 05:32:06 LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" 05:32:09 LC_ALL=C 05:32:09 myndzi: for windows? 05:32:11 oops 05:32:13 so 05:32:14 no* 05:32:17 oerjan: stfu 05:32:18 >_> 05:32:29 it takes advantage of irc clients that support utf-8 running on terminals that don't 05:32:33 to send ansi control codes 05:32:47 oerjan: LC_ALL ſhould be ="" or en_US.UTF-8. 05:32:58 Þy terminal will magically begin handling Unicode. 05:33:00 at least no one here is vulnerable to the DCC SEND exploit. afaik. 05:33:18 that is a shitty bit of router code that is wrong in so many ways 05:33:26 luckily a simple work around is to not use port 6667 05:33:49 it's *supposed* to perform ALG functions on irc 05:33:53 pikhq: i once tried changing some things to norwegian or english, but noted that suddenly sort became all localized too 05:33:53 but it 1) doesn't check for valid ctcp 05:33:57 2) doesn't check that it's an outgoing message 05:34:07 3) closes the connection when it sees a malformed message (WHY?!) 05:34:11 oerjan: You could have LC_COLLATE=C. 05:34:15 and at the time i was using !sort from vim a lot 05:34:20 ic 05:34:21 the better part is you can use it for NAT traversal 05:34:30 LC_COLLATE determines how þings are ſorted. 05:34:48 by sending CORRECT dcc messages with the port you want access to and scanning the approximate range 05:34:59 And... Imma stop with that, it's getting too annoying to think about. 05:35:01 (of the natted port) 05:35:12 thank god, one sane person :P 05:35:30 Mäybë a bit of mëtäl to end things wıṫh, though. 05:35:42 lül 05:35:54 z? 05:36:15 ìíîïiîiìííîíïíìîiìííîììììîîîíîïîiìïîïîiìïîíìiîiííîíîíìiìî 05:37:28 I love how i+. = ı 05:37:32 myndzi: sane persons, in here? let's EAT THEIR BRAINS! 05:38:36 lol thats soooooooo random 05:39:23 cause like, you know? 05:39:26 pikhq: clearly that should have been i-. 05:39:40 or i^. , possibly 05:39:49 beat me to it:P 05:39:53 oerjan: But it's technically i + .. 05:39:55 i was looking for the logical xor symbol in charmap 05:40:16 pikhq: um, how so? 05:40:23 Alphabetic arithmetic is a bit of a unique axiomatic system. 05:40:27 pikhq: didnt we do this the other night? 05:40:30 wouldn't that be ï instead 05:40:54 That's what it looks like when you add the . diaretic to i. 05:40:58 i⊻. 05:41:01 i guess 05:41:03 um right 05:41:15 Just very weird. 05:41:24 ï is not really the same as i plus a single dot 05:41:34 pikhq: i think if you added the dot diacritic to i you'd get i with a dot above, not ï 05:41:35 it makes sense that i+dot = i with no dot, really 05:41:37 BTW, if you want an i with a dot, ị is much nicer looking. :p 05:41:53 psygnisfive: What you actually get is ı. 05:42:00 i know what you get from typing 05:42:05 but thats input systems 05:42:06 add the dot AGAIN! 05:42:09 i+.+. 05:42:17 then divide by 0 for good measure 05:42:19 thats not i + dot 05:42:22 …i 06:00:57 :< 06:01:37 :< 06:05:39 ::| 06:07:07 :.: 06:09:39 .;:,`":: 06:16:59 -!- coppro has joined. 06:26:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:07:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:40:09 no bf joust action today huh? 07:40:10 hehe 07:45:55 no 07:46:02 no more bf joust action ever, unfortunately 07:46:18 new laws have been passed that require immediate execution of any participants in bf joust action. 07:47:13 uh oh 07:47:15 I better watch myself 07:47:20 won't want to bf joust by accident 07:57:26 ARGH 07:57:34 Kicked out of parks twice in as many nights. 07:57:43 Portland is trying to kill Extreme Croquet. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:06 "extreme" croquet? 08:00:39 rocket-powered mallets 08:00:50 hover hoops 08:00:52 you know 08:00:59 i .. see 08:01:01 only one person has ever reached the 20x multiplier 08:01:24 ............ yeah, at's not extreme croquet :P 08:01:30 It's juſt croquet in unuſual environments. 08:01:38 Often played at night becauſe, well, þat's an unuſual environment. 08:01:42 like on a whale?? 08:01:53 ever play croquet there? 08:01:55 Þat would be really unuſual, but ſure :P 08:03:00 off the tree, down the stream bed, under the bridge, off the rock, nothing but wicket! 08:06:05 Sounds about right. 08:06:39 http://purdueextremecroquet.org/ 08:31:21 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 08:35:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:48:03 btw, there is a way to see the age of a program on the hill 08:48:06 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/?C=M;O=A 08:48:19 well the 'age' 08:52:40 GregorR-L: you're sing þ wrong. 08:52:46 using* 08:52:55 you're also using long-s wrong. 08:53:04 I'm fairly certain I'm not on boþ of þoſe. 08:53:13 unfortunately you are 08:53:31 Pleaſe, enlighten me. 08:53:31 þ is used for voiceless th, as in "both", but ð is used for voiced, as in "those" 08:53:34 Wrong. 08:53:41 *ahem* 08:53:41 Þis is Engliſh, not Icelandic. 08:53:52 Whos got the degree in linguistics? 08:53:55 thats right, me. 08:53:56 bitch. 08:54:33 Funny how /every/ ſource I can find ſays oþerwiſe. 08:54:53 The letter thorn was used for writing Old English very early on, like ð; but unlike ð, it remained in common usage through most of the Middle English period. 08:55:01 guess it depends on the period you are talking about? 08:55:08 Early modern 08:55:13 also, long s was word medial 08:55:37 Þe long 's' I'm almoſt certainly doing wrong, I was baſically juſt doing what ſomebody elſe ſaid for giggles þere :P 08:56:41 it seems you're sort of right about þ and ð. þ was often word initial than ð 08:56:52 and rarely medial 08:57:25 ofcourse, this only works for old english where θ and ð are allophones 08:57:49 I'm aiming at early modern, by which point ð was juſt gone. 08:57:54 in modern english, you can't use them interchangeable since [θ] and [ð] are not allophones 08:58:08 what about for the cretaceous where θ and ð are allosaurs? 08:58:09 yes, well, early modern used completely different words and spelling as well 08:58:17 so you might as well give it up! 08:58:42 give it up like the second person singular! 08:58:42 Or, I'll juſt decree þat I'm trying to bring back þorn as a general replacement for 't h', and not as a ſpecific revival of its previous uſe. 08:58:53 myndzi: we're talking phonology not saurology 08:59:03 let's bring back porn as a general replacement for 'th' 08:59:06 that'd be more productive 08:59:10 well you should revive it as a replacement for the voiceless one! 08:59:35 GregorR-L, voice of the voiceless 08:59:38 Þat's difficult when I'm juſt uſing eſsentially a ſed ſcript :P 08:59:46 (you'll never silence him!) 08:59:55 what? 09:00:06 That's difficult when I'm just using essentially a sed script :P 09:00:12 right no i get that :P 09:00:16 a sed script? 09:00:30 I'm juſt typing as per normal and it's being replaced automatically by an xchat plugin I wrote. 09:00:47 oh 09:00:48 lame 09:00:53 :P 09:00:56 type it by hand, you wuss 09:01:04 like a real man 09:01:05 Þat's þree key-ſtrokes per, bleh. 09:01:14 two on a mac :D 09:01:21 not even 09:01:25 alt+t 09:02:09 It's compose-t-h on X. 09:02:45 well i cant help you with your lameos 09:03:05 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:03:34 just edit your keyboard layout 09:03:37 shouldn't be hard 09:04:22 wait... linux, right 09:04:26 you might have to recompile the kernel 09:04:27 :P 09:05:04 yeah but he likes linux, which means recompiling the kernel is pleasurable. 09:09:01 did middle english still have hwere and hwy, or had it changed by then? 09:09:10 and hwæt 09:09:19 changed 09:09:37 hwery hwell 09:09:53 * oerjan runs away, hiding 09:10:35 Icelandic uses "hvaða" for "what", I love it 09:10:54 why?? 09:12:39 hwy aks hwy 09:13:07 because i want to ::SMASH:: 09:13:34 * oerjan watches psygnisfive carefully for any emerging green color 09:15:01 * oerjan cannot quite remember if psygnisfive is a conlanger 09:15:08 * psygnisfive is 09:15:19 constructed language? 09:15:24 my recent eodermdrome program nearly qualifies 09:15:24 yes 09:15:32 oh? 09:15:33 do tell 09:16:34 shouldn't the topic be "þou dost not", out of curiosity, or am I in the wrong period there too? 09:17:11 * oerjan rearranges it a bit 09:17:14 it probably should be 09:17:26 since the -th suffix is the precursor to modern -s 09:17:42 so the topic translates roughly as "so long as you does not talk to him" 09:18:17 "thou" is actually still used in Lancashire (where I mostly live), but it's changed to "tha", and it's rare even among old people 09:20:45 psewelklihiandnabarfrux chewelisksiamtmaybobyargruz scewelklihiandnabarfrux wheliosokoiamtmaybyargruz psewelklihiandnarfryx chewelisksiamtmargrux scewelklihiandnarfryx wheliosokoiamtmargrux 09:20:49 (1) byanad buguramat (0) byanad buramat ( ) sehened sihiabruramat ( ) ianadabar iamtmabar sceweihiandnarfrux (0) sowoieheiamtmaur sceweihiandnarfryx (1) sowoieheiamtmaurux 09:20:52 abrand a thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog miewehit 09:21:17 wtf oerjan 09:22:30 * oerjan removed most of the english output parts 09:24:38 i played around with tr to make it look nice-sounding 09:25:17 (letter permutations don't change the program interpretation) 09:27:13 although making it basically pronouncable was mainly a question of strategric placement of vowels and sonants 09:27:20 i dont understand what this is 09:27:31 (which i did by hand first) 09:27:42 it's a program in ais523's Eodermdrome language 09:28:17 each word is interpreted as a graph, with each letter a node and edges between neighboring nodes 09:28:41 ok 09:28:43 the () part is I/O 09:28:49 how is this conlang-ish? 09:29:00 well just the sound of it 09:29:22 er? 09:29:36 oerjan just wants to hang out with the cool kids 09:29:39 o_O 09:30:53 *sighs* 09:31:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus"). 10:09:27 -!- tombom has joined. 11:15:39 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)"). 11:39:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:59:09 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 12:21:04 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com ."). 12:26:46 -!- whtspc has joined. 12:34:55 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 12:38:38 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:41:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:01:48 -!- Corun has joined. 13:18:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:20:11 -!- nooga has joined. 13:27:10 -!- M0ny has joined. 13:28:34 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:48:27 yay, defend9 is still top of the leaderboard 14:04:41 ais523: gcc-bf has special output format? (from recent in-between commit log about gcc-bf's RLE format) 14:04:48 yes 14:04:53 as an option 14:05:03 it can output regular BF, but that often causes the computer to run out of memory 14:05:16 so it can also output in its internal RLE format, which is basically BF but with run-length encoding 14:05:30 how does it look like? 14:05:39 +++++ becomes +*5 14:05:42 apart from that, it's identical 14:05:52 oh, and if there isn't a number after the *, the * is a comment 14:05:57 ah okay. 14:06:16 is +*0 acceptable? (stupid though) 14:06:18 gcc-bf output also contains a few meaningful comments; but they're strictly comments, the program runs fine without interpreting them 14:06:22 and no, it isn't 14:06:31 because +*5 can be interpreted as +, then four more +s 14:07:40 okay. finally i have some time to work on esotope-bfc, and i'm moving file loader into separate module. but i wanted some example... :) 14:14:22 there's some gcc-bf code in filebin somewhere 14:14:30 how about **5 ? 14:14:37 nooga: gcc-bf never generates that 14:15:08 http://filebin.ca/pqzmno/hworld1.bfrle 14:15:21 possibly the world's longest and most convoluted hello world 14:15:30 although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a worse one out there somewhere 14:17:06 is * really necessary? 14:17:16 nooga: no, it just makes filesizes much smaller 14:17:22 and prevents my computer running out of memory 14:17:26 you can just expand it all if you like 14:17:26 +10 == +*10 is quite obvious 14:17:53 i mean the character '*' 14:18:04 why not +60, -10 >5 14:18:05 etc 14:23:35 oops, separating loader and initial optimizer made esotope-bfc three times slower. :( 14:24:23 nooga: to distinguish from numbers in comments? 14:24:34 gcc-bf can use quite a lot of those, especially if you ask for debug output 14:25:22 how frequent does number occur after +-<>[]., in comments? 14:25:39 without any space etc 14:25:44 loads, although there are normally other comment characters in between 14:26:20 so 14:27:42 +80 90 14:27:51 then 90 is comment 14:28:02 single space in between will do 14:28:24 +33 66-22 14:28:28 66 is still a comment 14:28:39 I think using * is probably less of a disruption to standard BF parsing 14:29:11 but makes the code larger 14:29:28 well, I'd put the numbers in hex if I cared about microoptimising size 14:29:48 it's just the difference between <*10000 and writing it out with loads of < signs 14:30:16 sure 14:30:30 <10000 gives you one char less 14:30:41 which is hardly any saving compared to the 10000 14:31:28 i thin you've got something like 20000 *s in this file you gave 14:31:41 yes, 20K isn't going to make a substantial difference 14:32:02 all I really care about is causes my computer to swap vs. doesn't cause my computer to swap 14:42:42 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 14:43:35 wonder if zip would compress this file 14:43:49 almost certainly 14:43:54 I suspect it compresses rather well 14:44:12 wow 14:44:26 430kB -> 36kB 14:46:12 doh 14:46:20 can't find this whole gcc-bf 14:46:24 is it unreleased? 15:04:23 !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7(>[-])*20 15:04:34 Score for FireFly_test: 48.8 15:04:38 Hm.. 15:16:12 !bfjoust draw ([+]+)*5000 15:16:23 Score for FireFly_draw: 18.3 15:16:37 Hm, it actually did win a coule of times :\ 15:17:24 nooga: yes, unreleased 15:17:30 and unfinished 15:17:32 heh 15:17:37 it was hard enough just to get that hello world to work 15:17:59 FireFly: wouldn't [+]+ suicide unless the opponent was on your flag doing [-]? 15:18:08 Hm 15:18:10 ooh, maybe not 15:18:15 that's just at 0 for one cycle 15:18:22 nope, it is two cycles 15:18:23 The idea is to abuse the fact that it needs to be 0 for two cycles 15:18:27 one after the +, one after the ] 15:18:29 Ah, hm 15:18:35 you can abuse that fact; just not like that 15:18:35 I need another + 15:18:40 try +[++] 15:18:48 Yeah.. 15:18:57 Or [+]++ ? 15:19:01 (repeatedly) 15:19:03 no, that wouldn't work 15:20:24 !bfjoust nooga [>[+]-] 15:20:35 Score for nooga_nooga: 60.0 15:20:49 !bfjoust draw (+[++])*5000 15:20:58 Let's see what happens now... 15:21:00 Score for FireFly_draw: 27.3 15:21:25 5 draws, 4 wins (eg. opponent suicides) 15:22:03 how to avoid suicide? 15:22:57 !bfjoust nooga (>)*100[>+[-]-] 15:23:08 Score for nooga_nooga: 0.0 15:23:15 xD 15:23:21 !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7([>][-])*20 15:23:32 Score for FireFly_test: 11.2 15:23:41 !bfjoust nooga (>)*60[>+[-]-] 15:23:52 Score for nooga_nooga: 0.0 15:23:53 -!- Corun has joined. 15:24:20 Ah 15:24:24 I see 15:25:05 why? 15:25:17 I saw why my code went terribly bad :P 15:25:18 enemy flag should be somewhere there (?) 15:25:22 The FireFly_test one 15:25:31 Wait, 60? 15:25:49 after 60 at least 15:25:52 "The tape length is much shorter, being randomized in the range 10-30." 15:25:59 ahhh 15:26:01 ^ tip :P 15:26:11 !bfjoust nooga (>)*5[>+[-]-] 15:26:22 Score for nooga_nooga: 22.0 15:28:01 !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[-])*20 15:28:12 Score for FireFly_test: 53.7 15:28:45 !bfjoust nooga ++>--->++>->+++>-[>+[-]-] 15:28:54 Score for nooga_nooga: 28.5 15:30:08 !bfjoust nooga ->--->---->--->-->-[>+[-]-] 15:30:19 Score for nooga_nooga: 42.3 15:30:39 shame this is not my solution :C 15:32:54 !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[+++++>]<[-])*20 15:33:04 Score for FireFly_test: 10.4 15:33:25 Ah, wait 15:33:42 !bfjoust test +++>>(+)*3>(-)*3>++(>)*6(>[+++++<]>[-])*20 15:33:53 Score for FireFly_test: 29.7 15:37:08 !bfjoust AntiMarauder ++(>>-)*4>(>[-])*21 15:37:19 Score for FireFly_AntiMarauder: 35.8 15:40:03 !bfjoust draw >+[[+]+] 15:40:13 Score for FireFly_draw: 24.3 15:40:23 does probram end after zeroing opponent's flag? 15:40:39 It has to be zero for two rounds 15:40:53 See http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust#The_revised_version 15:41:09 2 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 - - + - 0 | 24.3 | -3 | FireFly_draw.bfjoust 15:41:15 wow, nescience_shade is now second 15:41:15 Muhaha, draws 15:41:24 Yep 15:41:25 I wonder if he resubmitted it with changes, or if the hill's changed enough that it does well? 15:41:40 nescience / myndzi: you wouldn't happen to know anything about this, would you? 15:42:28 heh, Firefly_draw /is/ rather good at drawing 15:42:41 a typical famer 15:42:48 I wonder if there's some way to modify farmers so that they win? 15:44:34 Hmm 15:45:06 possibly some sort of cross between defend9 (we need a name for that strategy!) and a farmer 15:45:48 I haven't read all of defend9, 'twas rather long, wasn't it? 15:45:55 By the way, was the limit of rounds 100k? 15:46:27 yes 15:46:31 Hm 15:46:40 !bfjoust test (-->{.}+++<)*5[>+[-]-] 15:46:48 damn 15:46:51 % 15:46:51 Score for nooga_test: 19.2 15:47:12 !bfjoust test (-->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-] 15:47:23 Score for nooga_test: 31.7 15:48:12 !bfjoust test (->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-] 15:48:23 Score for nooga_test: 23.7 15:48:31 !bfjoust test (---->{.}+++<)%5[>+[-]-] 15:48:41 Score for nooga_test: 29.6 15:48:48 FireFly: defend9 is long, but it's all much the same thing 15:48:53 !bfjoust test (-->{.}+<)%5[>+[-]-] 15:48:53 it works by benchmarking the opposing program 15:49:00 to determine how many instructions are in its main loop 15:49:02 Score for nooga_test: 13.4 15:49:07 huh 15:49:08 That's interesting 15:49:16 and then trapping it in its main loop whilst running off to capture its flag 15:49:38 i can't imagine how 15:49:49 I didn't think BF Joust would be that much about analyzing the opponent :P 15:49:50 it can actually determine something 15:50:11 !bfjoust test >+([+]+)*5000(>)*8(>[-])*21 15:50:22 Score for FireFly_test: 20.4 15:53:14 !bfjoust draw >-->+[[+]+] 15:53:24 Score for FireFly_draw: 18.4 15:54:43 FireFly: well, defend9 is top of the table 15:54:49 so it obviously isn't a hideous strategy 15:54:54 Yep, I've noticed 15:57:17 !bfjoust draw >-[[.]-] 15:57:28 Score for FireFly_draw: 16.1 15:57:38 Meh, not as many draws 16:01:27 !bfjoust draw >+[]<[+] 16:01:38 Score for Deewiant_draw: 24.1 16:02:00 Hmph 16:02:26 !bfjoust draw >+[]<[++-] 16:02:36 Score for Deewiant_draw: 14.5 16:02:46 Heh 16:02:53 !bfjoust draw >-[]<[+] 16:03:04 Score for Deewiant_draw: 19.2 16:04:17 Wait, []?.. Hm, that works just as well as [.] 16:04:26 Didn't think of that 16:04:32 Except being well.. faster 16:07:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:08:56 found on Reddit: http://chrishecker.com/Kurt_G%C3%B6del_is_Laughing_His_Ass_Off_Right_Now 16:10:37 !bfjoust test [+]->>(+)*5>(-)*5(>)*7(>[-])*20 16:10:47 Score for FireFly_test: 20.3 16:12:16 ais523 : heh 16:12:35 Hey ais523 16:12:49 Your graph rewriting thingamagic, are you sure it's TC? 16:13:01 It seems to have a finite number of possible nodes 16:13:11 I'm not sure, but that isn't limiting its TCness 16:13:16 you can have infinite possible nodes 16:13:29 for instance, "ab ade" is a trivial program that creates infinite nodes 16:14:10 So you start with the graph a-b, and what does it do? 16:14:16 no 16:14:30 you start with the graph thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog, as always 16:14:37 orite 16:14:44 but ab refers to a vertex b of degree 1 16:14:56 and you replace it with a vertex of degree 2 connected to a vertex of degree one 16:15:04 It's like the active part in the andrei machine? 16:15:07 so you end up with an infinite chain of degree-2 vertices 16:15:43 Wait, what does a-b transforms into in one step? 16:17:42 Slereah: the vertices aren't marked with letters 16:18:10 so ab transforms into ade, which is equivalent to zab, which becomes zade, which is equivalent to yzab, which becomes yzade 16:18:12 etc 16:18:50 Oh, so you can have multiple nodes with the same name 16:19:04 nodes aren't named at all 16:19:09 nodes are completely unnamed 16:19:17 letters are just used to describe graphs 16:19:20 o. 16:19:24 it's pattern matching 16:19:38 just like if you say A+B in Prolog, that matches any addition 16:19:46 not necessarily an addition of the letters A and B 16:20:13 The fact that the starting graph is so hueg doesn't make it easy to visualize a suimple example 16:20:26 you generally replace the starting graph with what you want 16:20:31 as it's unlikely to come up at random 16:21:01 So a-b actually replaces every nodes connected by a vertex? 16:22:36 no, because b isn't mentioned over the right 16:22:46 it replaces all nodes that are connected to one other node, but nothing else 16:22:58 ab adb would replace two connected nodes with a chain of three connected nodes 16:23:03 and is so general, it would be unlikely to be useful 16:23:26 That sounds even worst to program than the Kolmogorov machine 16:23:31 At least it had types :o 16:23:43 What's the name of this.. language? 16:23:50 And a starting node, to mark the beginning 16:24:00 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome 16:24:10 Hm 16:24:17 Thanks 16:24:39 I wonder if Mathematica is good with graphs, since it's the best software ever written 16:28:05 Mathematica has graphs, but the documentation is really shallow 16:28:25 Mathematica is incredibly bad at anything it wasn't designed for 16:28:36 heh 16:29:04 http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/Combinatorica/ref/Graph.html 16:29:08 Look at that shit 16:29:22 Do they tell me how a list of vertex and nodes is supposed to be written? 16:32:48 Yes, they do 16:33:00 -!- jix has joined. 16:33:14 Slereah: node = vertex 16:33:16 arc = edge 16:35:01 ugh, Mathematica's graph stuff is as inflexible as I suspected it might be 16:35:09 each vertex seems to come with information about where it is 16:35:20 which means it can't draw graphs in the neatest possible way 16:36:44 although they do have things like SpringEmbedding to try to achieve that sort of thing 16:37:55 Yeah 16:38:13 I tried ShowGraph[Graph[{{1, 2}}, {{1, 1}, {2, 2}}]], but it no works 16:38:15 the Eodermdrome graph-match operation isn't in their library, though 16:38:24 I may need additional brackets 16:38:32 meaning it's basically impossible to implement 16:42:55 Well, it's probably doable 16:43:01 Though not necessarily easy 16:43:23 Although I think the Andrei Machine 9000 should be easier, since it has typed nodes 16:43:23 The Graph bit works but ShowGraph gives a bunch of errors 16:43:44 Deewiant: probably because the nodes aren't assigned to positions 16:43:53 you'd have to take it through a position-allocation function first 16:44:19 Possibly; I didn't read the docs, just tried Slereah's expression :-) 16:44:30 also, how do you know the Graph bit works? 16:44:39 Mathematica operations don't normally give errors if you mess up the syntax 16:44:43 they just hold in place Thutu-style 16:44:48 It doesn't error and it gives proper output 16:44:53 although there are error-recognition patterns in later versions 16:45:02 - Graph:<1,2,Undirected>- 16:45:07 ah 16:48:17 Wait 16:48:28 Is Graph shit a package, or is it basic Mathematica? 16:48:34 Because even the examples don't work 16:48:43 Load it with < It's both, it comes with Mathematica 16:49:22 Oh, that would explain why nothing works. 16:49:26 Yep, works better now 16:50:41 Now let's see what I can implement on that piece of shit 17:09:35 FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU 17:10:10 load avg under osx after one week without reboot -> 0.75, 0.36, 0.23 17:17:47 -!- leonid_ has joined. 17:20:55 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:29:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:31:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:31:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkeþ not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 17:32:03 er wait... 17:32:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkest not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 17:32:53 Man, it must be awesome to be Wolfram 17:33:03 how? 17:33:13 He probably has a constant boner just from being him 17:33:14 Because he's the best man ever! 17:35:07 Nicely done, Ørjan. 17:35:35 (just because I've stopped with the Early Modern English doesn't mean I'm not going to spell “Ørjan” right. ;)) 17:38:49 i like the letter Ø 17:38:52 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)"). 17:39:06 Your graph rewriting thingamagic, are you sure it's TC? 17:39:08 i think Wolfram is weird 17:39:09 D: 17:39:24 * oerjan thought he proved that. 17:40:05 in principle, at least, even if there may be bugs in it 17:40:54 k 17:43:54 -!- leonid_ has left (?). 17:44:21 ø 17:45:01 Møøse 17:45:09 once bit your sister? 17:45:23 in the hööse 17:45:36 llamas! 17:45:52 Sim City fucking loved llamas 17:45:57 oerjan, excellent topic! 17:46:20 AnMaster: i merely corrected þe grammar 17:47:10 we are sø nørsk 17:47:38 pølsk pølsevev 17:47:56 oerjan, pølsevev ? 17:47:58 øl 17:48:07 AnMaster: means nonsense 17:48:10 ah 17:49:04 øl før frøkøst 17:49:55 uuurgh 17:50:15 AnMaster: finally i'm back to the esotope-bfc. :) i recently added bfrle parser to analyze gcc-bf's output. 17:50:22 lifthrasiir, heh. 17:50:27 lifthrasiir, I had one for DAYS ;P 17:51:07 lifthrasiir, haven't had time for in-between for a while 17:51:12 :/ 17:51:25 oh. 17:51:26 polynom stuff is semi-complete 17:51:30 polynomial* 17:51:36 GregorR: your font is weird. "Hello, world! How are you today?" → "HELLO, DONLD! HOD ANE EOU PODAE?" 17:51:43 (meh, I always spell it in Swedish by mistake) 17:51:48 good to hear it. 17:51:54 polynom nom nom! :p 17:52:00 lifthrasiir: dammit! 17:52:08 i was going to say that 17:52:10 lifthrasiir, haven't worked out how to convert non-trivial loops to that form though 17:52:40 that is not +/- 1 for index cell. And no, I haven't been able to understand the algorithm you use 17:52:49 lifthrasiir: so I'm curious, you wrote that thing about north/south korea for your school right? d'you think north korea are bluffing about bombing south korea? 17:52:51 AnMaster: do you still have trouble with the [+++>----<] kind? 17:52:55 i'd imagine so, but, weird place. 17:52:56 oerjan, yes 17:53:15 AnMaster: i keep telling you the extended euclidean algorithm is the key 17:53:22 oerjan: he can't understand it 17:53:35 oerjan, yes and I read about it. And I just don't understand *how* it is the key. How to use it in here. 17:53:53 ehird: south koreans have been immuned to such things over the recent twenty years or so. 17:53:55 (and yet he has the audacity to yell at me for not being up-to-date with a special case of the definition of imaginary numbers :-)) 17:53:59 lifthrasiir: heh 17:54:02 AnMaster: although as long as the index cell increment is _odd_, it reduces to modulo inverse 17:54:44 AnMaster: essentially for [+++>----<] you need to find x such that 3x == 1 (mod 256) 17:55:17 hm 17:55:55 and then if the index cell is y, the other cell gets 4*x*y added 17:56:16 oerjan, and x is the other cell? 17:56:36 no, x is what i wrote in the previous line 17:56:55 hm 17:56:57 the index cell gets zeroed, naturally 17:57:00 yes 17:57:43 AnMaster: note that the requirement that the increment is odd is really gcd(increment,256) = 1 17:57:46 oerjan, that isn't an issue. I already make use of the knowledge that after a loop the index cell is zero. 17:58:09 oerjan, Hm... is it so? 17:58:18 right 17:58:20 when the gcd is 1, the extended euclidean algorithm reduces to finding modulo inverses 17:58:34 I did work out that "when odd it will be finite", but in another way 18:01:17 AnMaster: it is possible to split things up if you find modulo inverses easier to think of than the algorithm (although you will still need the algorithm to _calculate_ a modulo inverse) 18:02:00 essentially you can first calculate the gcd(increment, 256), which gives you enough information to tell whether the loop is infinite or not 18:02:00 * AnMaster reads about modulo inverse on mathworld 18:02:52 mathworld? 18:02:54 if it is not infinite, then you divide things by the gcd, and then use modular inverse 18:02:54 more like wolframworld. 18:03:10 ehird, true, but was first hit on google 18:03:24 modulo inverse is just the inverse of modulo :P 18:03:26 (wikipedia was first for me) 18:03:36 oerjan: regional etc diffs 18:03:41 also, *modular, as the googling reminded me 18:03:43 oerjan, so it is here if I'm not logged in to gmail. 18:03:45 *shrug* 18:03:55 oh 18:03:58 AnMaster: that's it personalizeramating the search results 18:04:22 ehird, probably 18:04:48 ehird, I use a script to disable the click tracking though, but I guess they could still do something based on search terms 18:05:43 i leave it on because I like the superior search results. 18:05:55 oooh "coprime" is same as "relativt prima" in Swedish.... Now I'm _slightly_ less lost. 18:06:45 well ok I think I see *part* of what oerjan is talking about now 18:06:45 oerjan: øl før frøkøst << that's pretty much real for me ;C 18:07:44 ouch 18:07:56 nooga, out of water? 18:08:40 i've got beer, but i'm too lazy to visit a grocery store 18:09:15 pikhq: what's that writing system you talked about? 18:09:40 nooga: beer, water, basically the same thing modulo some hops right? 18:09:57 sure 18:10:05 exactly! 18:10:08 makes my stomach full 18:10:13 ;D 18:10:15 fuck ESD... (no nothing got destroyed, but it hurt, saw the spark between the water tap and my finger...) 18:10:16 yep, er, that's a property of water 18:10:17 kind of 18:10:41 AnMaster: static is fun when you touch a crt 18:10:45 or rather not very fun, but 18:10:48 + i've heard that Polish beer is quite good 18:10:58 ehird, as "not fun" as a magnet is? 18:11:16 close to a CRT I mean 18:11:17 AnMaster: oh oh I used to use magnets on CRT & LCD monitors 18:11:20 they're so pretty 18:11:28 AnMaster: for a CRT btw it's fine you just need to degauss after 18:11:38 ehird, unless the magnet is too strong 18:11:58 well maybe if you're like magnet mcstrongymagnet you couldn't just use any magnet you own 18:12:12 ehird, neody-whatever magnet kind of strong I mean 18:12:23 Neodywhateverium. 18:12:24 my old crt started to wobble when my electric oven was on 18:12:33 ehird, you know what I mean? 18:12:39 nooga: :D 18:12:40 AnMaster: yes 18:12:43 rightt 18:12:47 s/t// 18:13:00 llllllllllllllllleft 18:13:17 Ü 18:13:18 ehird, as for LCD... Do you mean TFT or calculator-kind-of-LCD 18:13:31 I never heard of any issues with magnets for either 18:13:38 hmm maybe I'm misremembering 18:13:38 I haven't tried, and don't plan to 18:13:46 but my TFT did that I think 18:13:47 same as a CRT 18:13:50 wavy purpley colours 18:13:54 uhu 18:14:01 ehird: try on plasma 18:14:09 ehird: are you sure you weren't ingesting something at the time 18:14:12 nooga: I do not have the cash for a plasma display :) 18:14:21 oerjan: 'tis possible 18:14:33 I wonder what fun things you can do with OLED 18:14:35 maybe there was something magnetic behind the liquid cristals 18:14:42 hmm 18:14:44 so the magnets pulled that against the LCs 18:14:48 do OLED displays have subpixels? 18:14:53 jix: possibly, or just my bad memory 18:14:56 Heh 18:15:01 I used to have a professor 18:15:11 He's a researcher on OLEDs 18:15:13 yes, OLED displays do have subpixels, cool 18:15:30 Always telling us how awesome they were 18:15:34 OLED's pretty cool. 18:15:37 Showing us his OLED watch 18:15:38 yep 18:15:49 Would love to use an OLED display for my new machine but that's not really practical yet. 18:15:57 black is black, colors are vivid 18:16:14 + energy saving 18:16:17 otoh I still want someone to invent something like: 18:16:20 + 256 colors 18:16:22 ;d 18:16:25 Except it's expensive as shit :o 18:16:26 OLED, but the off state is white, not black 18:16:27 hm 18:16:39 ehird: what for? 18:16:39 then black-on-white text would be a lot easier & pleasant to read 18:16:42 nooga: see above 18:16:50 isn't life time of OLED displays rather short 18:16:52 I like white backgrounds better, but black ones give less eye strain currently 18:16:53 how to display black? 18:16:54 compared to TFT and CRT 18:16:55 AnMaster: used to be 18:17:00 nooga: beats me :) 18:17:02 ehird, much better nowdays? 18:17:16 AnMaster: yeah, one way of doing it even has more lifespan than lcd/tft displays iirc 18:17:22 AnMaster : Yeah 18:17:32 plus, displays don't really last that long anyway 18:17:38 hmm 18:17:58 ehird, I only had an TFT fail once, that was due to the backlight thingy dying. 18:18:02 i've seen something like a paper display 18:18:09 nooga: yeah, ipaper 18:18:11 /electronic paper 18:18:12 CFL or something I think the term is? 18:18:15 Kindle uses it 18:18:19 rly? 18:18:21 nooga: yep 18:18:27 nooga: it does the neutral-white thing perfectly BUT: 18:18:30 - low resolution 18:18:32 ehird, my old monitor lasted... hm. 6 years? 18:18:34 - terrible, terrible contrast 18:18:36 Something like that 18:18:40 - very poor colour 18:18:48 AnMaster: yes, but you're a luddite :) 18:18:56 ehird, define:luddite 18:19:00 I've never had a monitor break on me 18:19:03 AnMaster: congrats, you've got a google query set up 18:19:04 + those printed circuits (printed like documents) on foil 18:19:14 i have a dead pixel on this monitor 18:19:15 it pisses me off 18:19:20 ehird, I thought you used the same query interface? 18:19:20 hm 18:19:21 even though it's barely visible since it's 100dpi 18:19:29 Some 15+-years old ones are still in use 18:19:54 ehird.lookup("luddite").explain("otherwise this will turn into C++ with templates!") 18:19:55 ;P 18:19:56 Deewiant: by "last" i mean "a display from so many years ago will be uncomfortably small for modern systems" 18:20:14 eg from the 90s you've got 14-17" displays; awful 18:20:22 blurry crt to boot 18:20:42 i like my 24' apple screen 18:20:46 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:20:51 apple screens are nice 18:20:54 i use it with mac mini lol ;d 18:20:56 good contrast, 100 dpi 18:21:47 17" 4:3 is fine 18:21:55 i think that a big screen is necessary to work comfortably with OS X window-mess policy 18:21:56 Deewiant: are you on crack? 18:22:03 that screen's so small I'd die 18:22:17 nooga: as opposed to the oh-so-wonderful "MAXIMIZE EVERYTHING. EEEEEEEEEEVERYTHING! WASTED SPACE <3"? 18:22:37 thank got there's expo 18:22:48 got ist tott 18:22:56 haha 18:22:57 god 18:22:58 ;p 18:23:07 gott ist tot 18:23:08 ehird: No, you're on monitor-crack :-P 18:23:14 + i'd like to have an option to tile windows 18:23:18 1280x1024 is a fine resolution 18:23:22 Deewiant: hahahahah 18:23:27 maybe if you do only one thing at a time 18:23:33 i want tiling too and scriptable window management 18:23:37 on osx 18:23:42 and that thing is only a text editor, browser, or irc client. 18:23:48 try editing videos at 1280x1024, fuck eyeah 18:23:51 *yeah 18:23:51 tile them on 2d surface and be able to resize them all with dragging borders 18:23:58 you know what i mean? 18:24:02 For all of those things I do only have one window open at a time :-P 18:24:22 Deewiant: i'm going to assume you've never used a much bigger monitor 18:24:24 ehird: If I were editing videos or photos, yes, I would not be using a tiling WM. 18:24:31 pikhq: wasn't talking about tiling 18:24:32 ehird: I've got a 26" LCD currently 18:24:34 I was talking about using 1280x1024 18:24:56 Tiling makes sense for me because I've got terminal apps and a browser. 18:25:02 1280x1024? Sure, if it's 19". 18:25:06 Or smaller. 18:25:10 a mission: to hack OS X WM to tile windows 18:25:27 pikhq, 1280x1024 is acceptable for 17" IMO. But 19" would need higher 18:25:47 AnMaster: Fair enough. 18:26:01 what is the next step up after 1280x1024 ? 18:26:07 AnMaster: 1680x1050 18:26:11 * pikhq has a 19" 1440x900 monitor... Be nice to have something a bit better. 18:26:15 that's the most common step up, at least 18:26:16 i want to attach a window from one program to a window from another program 18:26:18 err 18:26:21 and then let them stay together 18:26:23 what about 1400x1050? 18:26:23 But 19" = 1280x1024, canonically. 18:26:24 for example 18:26:25 ehird: 1600x1200 18:26:27 ehird, ^ 18:26:27 AnMaster: not commonly used 18:26:28 it exists 18:26:29 Deewiant: oh, right 18:26:32 ehird: That's not 4:3. The 4:3 equivalent is 1440x1050. 18:26:37 1680x1050 is widescreen 18:26:38 AnMaster: from 1280x1050, you go to 1600x1200 18:26:43 ehird: 1024 18:26:44 ehird, well my current monitor uses 1400x1050... 18:26:48 as native resolution 18:26:51 er, right 18:26:56 AnMaster: it's uncommon./ 18:26:56 well,* 18:27:00 ehird, ok. 18:27:12 ehird, but it is the next step up then 18:27:29 and 1600x1200 is indeed widescreen 18:27:34 so what pikhq said 18:27:36 No it's not 18:27:37 AnMaster: the next step up is 1281x1025 18:27:39 1680x1050 is 18:27:40 if you're going to say that 18:27:44 √ 18:27:50 ehird, 1? 18:27:54 uneven!? 18:27:59 heh 18:28:10 AnMaster: by "next size up", clearly the only reasonable answer that can be given is "what's the most common next step up?" 18:28:13 that makes so much sense... NOT 18:28:17 ehird: Actually it's 1285/1028 18:28:20 ehird: 1440x1050 is only uncommon because monitors of the size where it makes sense are uncommon. 18:28:24 s:/:x: 18:28:47 ehird, "what is the next step above which is actually used, but maybe not the most common on" 18:28:49 one* 18:29:10 wow, ~160 dpi is beautiful 18:29:21 "Get a middling DPI 19" or 20" monitor? Fuck that." 18:29:42 pikhq, um? 18:29:48 Erm. 18:29:50 Ignore me. 18:29:52 what do you mean with "middling" 18:29:55 in this context 18:30:25 It meanſt noþing. 18:30:28 mhm 18:30:57 ehird: is limechat scriptable? 18:31:05 nooga: it's just ruby 18:31:06 edit the code 18:31:09 's what I did 18:31:12 omfg 18:31:16 okay 18:31:21 so that when my bouncer sends [blah] foo in the quicklog, it sets time=blah 18:31:22 and removes that 18:31:27 so that the bouncer logs look nicer 18:31:42 how to i open the code when the program is ONE ICON? 18:31:49 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou talkeſt not to him.. 18:31:54 if it is just ruby... has it been "ported" to linux? 18:31:55 ARGH. 18:31:59 AnMaster: no 18:32:00 it uses cocoa 18:32:01 I DIDN'T EVEN HIT ENTER! 18:32:06 nooga: show contents 18:32:11 nooga: or just drag it to textmate 18:32:14 and it'll show the directory structure 18:32:21 ehird, ah... But wouldn't the backend and frontend be separate parts? 18:32:30 AnMaster: the frontend is the majority of the code. 18:32:31 so you could just use tk or whatever on Linux 18:32:32 also, cocoa != just gui 18:32:33 ehird, hm ok 18:32:40 -!- oerjan has set topic: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as þou talkest not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 18:32:43 cocoa has data structures etc 18:32:55 uh 18:33:04 -!- pikhq has set topic: #eſoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, ſo long as þou talkeſt not to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 18:33:11 ehird, does ruby have a "native" GUI API? Like Tcl has Tk? 18:33:15 No. 18:33:18 mhm 18:33:19 No language except Tcl does. 18:33:30 i doubt that this thing that appeared in textmate is ruby code 18:33:42 nooga: what appeared 18:33:50 ehird, ok. what about an interface to a gtk or such that is widely used? 18:33:54 looks like executable 18:34:01 * pikhq <3 Tk. 18:34:02 nooga: look in Resources/ 18:34:13 AnMaster: it has a tk binding in core, a qt binding, a gtk binding, an ffi, 18:34:17 ehird, I mean... for python isn't the "tinker" or whatever part of the python standard distribution? Rather than a separate package. 18:34:18 aha 18:34:21 a java's swing binding with JRuby, 18:34:23 it has everything. 18:34:28 ehird, sure. But I meant in core :) 18:34:30 note: tk isn't built by default 18:34:31 AnMaster: Tkinter, you mean? 18:34:39 pikhq, that might have been it 18:35:13 wtf 18:35:18 firefox doesn't respect system-wide dpi settings 18:35:24 erlang has tk and wxwidgets (new in R13A) support in the "standard" distribution. 18:35:26 LAME 18:35:38 ehird, make a patch? :D 18:35:57 ehird, also, did you change display or something? Or why have you found out this just now? 18:36:00 AnMaster: i'd rather eat my own vomit than try and compile, let alone modify, firefox 18:36:14 also, playing around in a VM in anticipation of possible ultra-high-DPI screen for a project 18:36:17 (~160dpi) 18:36:29 ehird, compiling isn't that complex iirc... Just time consuming. Leave it on overnight however. 18:36:47 AnMaster: Firefox has a complex build system. 18:36:58 And modifying it is hell. 18:37:05 XPCOMMMMMMMM 18:37:15 pikhq, as far as I remember it wasn't hard for me to build the ff2 alpha manually 18:37:19 maybe it is worse in ff3 18:37:22 don't know.. 18:37:40 grr, virtualbox, you have mouse integration but you aren't showing all resolutions 18:37:42 SHOW RESOLUTIONNNNNNNNNNNS 18:37:47 It's always been a tad bit of a bitch. 18:37:58 WHY? YOU DARE TO ASK ME WHY? 18:38:09 This screen will be 1280x1024. I cannot test 160dpi at 1024x768. 18:38:09 hm 18:38:13 Because there is a word for that. 18:38:14 It is: Cramped. 18:38:29 pikhq, no. Just quite a few ./configure options iirc. But way fewer than for apache! 18:38:50 (yes I have built Apache manually before.... On windows too! THAT was bad.) 18:39:21 ehird: got it 18:39:36 (upward in the snow both ways) 18:39:42 now where is that thing 18:39:47 nooga: what you tryina do 18:39:48 hmm 18:39:58 write a filter 18:40:12 pikhq, so I can't agree with you about hard to compile manually 18:40:33 That's not what he said 18:40:38 He said it's hard to modify 18:40:45 Not hard to use 18:41:00 Deewiant, sure he meant that? 18:41:05 pikhq, did you mean what Deewiant said? 18:41:09 2009-05-30 20:36:57 ( pikhq) And modifying it is hell. 18:41:15 Deewiant, "and" 18:41:18 I don't see what else he could've meant :-P 18:41:19 AnMaster: he said that 18:41:23 Complex and hard to modify 18:41:24 (a) it was a complex build system 18:41:24 and 18:41:26 (b) hard to modify 18:41:28 Complex != hard to use 18:41:29 neither implies hard to build 18:41:29 Deewiant, I interpreted it as "and also" 18:41:33 Yes, so did I 18:41:40 Never did he say it's hard to use 18:41:52 hard to compile manually he seemed to say 18:42:07 Complex doesn't mean that 18:42:21 * ehird discovers how many applications fragrantly ignore system-wide dpi settings 18:42:26 * ehird whoop-asses said prorgams 18:42:30 *programs 18:42:33 ehird, on OS X? 18:42:35 ehird: fragrantly? 18:42:37 AnMaster: linux 18:42:43 Well, I'm glad you find it pleasant 18:42:50 Deewiant: hahaha 18:42:56 sending privmsg where's that 18:42:56 *flagrantly 18:43:08 Deewiant, depends. For me fragrantly == bad. Due to having asthma... 18:43:09 nooga: ah 18:43:11 lemme take a loop 18:43:23 in flagrante delicto 18:43:27 er 18:43:28 look 18:43:40 "Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop. Lemme take a loop." 18:43:46 i take a loop and then i hang myself on it 18:43:55 Fragrantness doesn't imply pollen 18:44:05 Deewiant, nor does asthma... 18:44:19 Deewiant, but yes I happen to be allergic to some types of pollen as well. 18:44:20 I don't see how else asthma couldn't mix with that 18:44:21 nooga: class IRCSendingMessage 18:44:25 case on privmsg etc 18:44:26 Maybe I don't know enough about asthma 18:44:27 Deewiant, ah... I think there is difference between the English and Swedish meaning 18:44:28 nooga: in ircmessage.rb 18:44:40 Deewiant: err, asthma has nothing to do with pollen 18:44:42 that's hayfever 18:44:50 Yes, I know this 18:44:52 Asthma is a chronic medical condition. It has been defined by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute as a common chronic disorder of the airways that is complex and characterized by variable and recurring symptoms, airflow obstruction, bronchial hyperresponsiveness (bronchospasm), and an underlying inflammation. The interaction of these features of asthma determines the clinical manifestations and severity of asthma and the response to treatment.[1 18:44:55 ] 18:44:55 Yes, I know this 18:44:56 Yes, I know this 18:44:59 i dunno what smell has to do with it 18:45:00 admittedly 18:45:03 Deewiant, right. In English you are correct. In Swedish it kind of implies strong perfume or similar. 18:45:16 Aha 18:45:43 Deewiant, which does cause problems with asthma. Both for me and many other I know with asthma... 18:45:44 oh, I see 18:46:04 hmm... 1280x1024, let's say 12" screen = 136.6 PPI 18:46:09 = 136 or 137 18:46:17 damn English making a similar word with a different meaning. 18:46:18 :P 18:46:36 It's from Latin, and the English is closer to the original :-P 18:46:50 How secure is Hashapass? 18:46:51 fragrare - to smell (of something) 18:47:19 hm 18:47:38 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:47:38 -!- nooga has quit ("Leaving..."). 18:47:41 or karott... No "carrot" is not http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Karott.JPG but rather http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carrot.jpg 18:47:42 :P 18:47:56 -!- nooga has joined. 18:48:07 * ehird attempts to find ff's dpi setting 18:48:10 Hmm, what /is/ carrot in Swedish 18:48:12 (iirc French has the same meaning as Swedish for a similar word there?) 18:48:20 man, 137dpi is huge 18:48:24 Deewiant, the vegetable? 18:48:26 morot 18:48:26 eveything's the size of headings 18:48:31 Ah, right 18:48:39 ehird, try about:config ? 18:48:41 Carotte in French can mean stealing 18:48:47 Not sure of the spelling 18:48:47 AnMaster: yeah, it's set to -1 there 18:48:48 so heh 18:48:55 * ehird sets to 137 18:49:05 And garroting isn't fun 18:49:14 AnMaster: it, uh, valiantly didn't work. 18:49:16 And ^ is a caret 18:49:19 ehird, Oh. That was an attempt at joking about FF config dialogs being dumbed down.... 18:49:33 AnMaster: They're not dumbed down 18:49:41 I've only had to use about:config like 3 times in my life 18:49:44 And that's for really obscure stuff. 18:50:20 -!- uooga has joined. 18:50:21 ehird, sure are... Many of the settings only found in about:config nowdays used to be found in the normal config dialog in firefox 1.0 and older 18:50:24 Is making the backspace key not go back really that obscure? 18:50:42 AnMaster: that's called putting things most people don't use out of the way 18:50:44 lol 18:51:02 i broke sending msg 18:51:04 ehird, hey... remember "phoenix" and "firebird"? 18:51:06 :D 18:51:11 a full system designed by AnMaster would be the most configurable piece of shit ever that you wouldn't be able to do trivial things without scrolling down 57 pages of configuration options 18:51:27 and toggling things to one of 5 boolean values representing which type of machine code branch to use! 18:51:43 ehird, a system designed by me would be better than one designed by zzo at least 18:51:52 you have to admit that 18:51:53 That's true. 18:52:02 * oerjan tends to think of zzo as AnMaster squared 18:52:16 oerjan, odd. I tend to think of zzo as "lunatic" 18:52:21 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 18:52:32 "Well my program can play solitaire or football and you can set a configuration option to whether you want to play solitaire or football and also you can change the title like if you don't like Cool Football you could use Footybally" 18:52:37 AnMaster: he's autistic, give the kid a break 18:52:37 -!- nooga has joined. 18:52:45 he's very intelligent for sure 18:52:46 xD 18:52:46 ehird, oh? Hm I wasn't aware of it. 18:52:54 yay, it works 18:53:38 ehird, anyway why would I design a system. There is already one I like 18:53:55 emacs 18:53:56 :P 18:54:09 emacs is a perfect example of how to do everything wrong 18:54:19 it takes bad decisions to the level of an art form 18:54:26 ehird, examples? 18:54:27 http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/3-amazing-holgram-technologies 18:54:32 AnMaster: everything! 18:54:41 ehird, specific examples 18:54:52 pick just about anything from emacs and there's your example 18:54:59 ehird, the mode line? 18:55:04 the mini buffer? 18:55:10 it's like someone took the perfect editor and put it into the Make Everything Shit machine 18:55:12 AnMaster: more specific. 18:55:13 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 18:55:23 ehird, well I was more specific than you at least 18:55:26 :) 18:55:27 -!- nooga has joined. 18:55:34 but what it is you dislike with those then 18:55:35 þis is a teſ 18:55:41 heh, the display I want is almost as high dpi as the iphone 18:55:44 ouch 18:55:55 ehird, the iphone is high dpi? 18:55:58 mhm 18:56:06 AnMaster: it's a ~3.5" screen 18:56:10 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 18:56:14 ehird, yes. Why do they make them so high dpi 18:56:25 I mean I bet my phone has higher dpi than my computer monitor! 18:56:30 AnMaster: because the screen is tiny; if you made it at a regular dpi, everything would be blocky as hell 18:56:31 -!- nooga has joined. 18:56:38 anoþer teſ 18:56:41 you need to read web pages with quite small text on this 18:56:49 look at photos too 18:56:53 you need a decent sized screen 18:56:55 ehird, you would just have to hold it as the same distance as a normal monitor ;P 18:56:56 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:56:58 damn, does not work 18:57:01 Hi! 18:57:03 iphone = 480x320, 3.5" 18:57:06 ~16x dpi 18:57:12 fizzie: Are you there? 18:57:35 ehird, then another question... Why don't they make normal monitors as high dpi as those 18:57:45 AnMaster: mega $$$ 18:57:47 also, they do, for industry 18:57:50 eg hospitals and shit 18:58:02 ehird, why not get such a monitor? 18:58:12 oh wait the $$$ 18:58:12 AnMaster: that'll be a few thousand dollars, please 18:58:13 right 18:58:13 They're probably expensive, I guess 18:58:17 :/ 18:58:22 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:58:27 AnMaster: oh, and once you give me those thousand dollars, you can have shit contrast ratio too 18:58:34 "pick three" 18:58:36 er 18:58:37 "pick two" 18:58:43 Big, high-dpi, good contrast ratio. 18:58:50 ehird, "shit contrast ratio"? 18:58:55 Mandatory extra pick: Costly. 18:58:58 is that as in "bad" or "stuff" 18:58:58 ... 18:59:00 AnMaster: Bad. 18:59:02 ah 18:59:15 English takes words that mean anything to the nth level :) 18:59:19 ehird, what about ones based on plasma 18:59:25 what is the downside with them 18:59:31 blurry, aren't they? 18:59:33 only usable for tvs 18:59:35 maybe. No idea... 18:59:37 ah... 18:59:50 also, very power hungry 18:59:50 iirc 18:59:59 well I would want one of those monitors that are always used as reference monitors in monitor tests! 19:00:04 always a NEC it seems 19:00:10 [[Until the early 21st century, superior brightness, faster response time, greater color spectrum, and wider viewing angle of color plasma video displays, compared to LCD televisions, made them a popular display for HDTV flat panel displays. It was believed at the time that LCD technology was suited only to smaller sized televisions, while plasma technology was more competitive at larger sizes, particularly 40 inches (100 cm) and above. Improvements in V 19:00:13 LSI fabrication technology have narrowed the technological gap. The lower weight, falling prices, and often lower electrical power consumption of LCDs make them competitive with plasma television sets.]] 19:00:18 ſ was forbidden on þe end on or þe begining ? 19:00:23 [[Plasma displays are bright (1000 lux or higher for the module), have a wide color gamut, and can be produced in fairly large sizes, up to 381 cm (150 inches) diagonally. ]] 19:00:24 hmm 19:00:28 plasma displays use as much power as crts I think 19:00:32 nooga: end 19:00:48 hm 19:00:48 AnMaster: [[Nominal power rating is typically 400 watts for a 50-inch (127 cm) screen. Post-2006 models consume 220 to 310 watts for a 50-inch (127 cm) display when set to cinema mode. Most screens are set to 'shop' mode by default, which draws at least twice the power (around 500-700 watts) of a 'home' setting of less extreme brightness.]] 19:00:59 700 watts can power a high-end gaming pc 19:01:01 including monitor 19:01:06 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 19:01:08 ouch 19:01:21 -!- nooga has joined. 19:01:27 [[Plasma TVs also do not exhibit an image blur common in many LCD TVs]] 19:01:29 ok, then 19:01:36 okay, now þisſhould work properly 19:01:37 shop mode? home mode? 19:01:38 um 19:01:38 plasma displays are cool if you don't mind paying through the roof in both cost and power 19:01:44 isn't that cheating 19:01:47 naaaaah 19:01:53 AnMaster: you can set it to anything personally 19:01:57 it's just to woo customers in a shop window 19:02:10 ehird, yeah that is the bit I called cheating 19:02:11 .P 19:02:13 :P* 19:02:18 called marketing 19:02:22 They're just names for preset brightness settings 19:02:22 but... 19:02:26 yeah, what Deewiant said 19:02:32 mhm 19:02:36 It makes sense for them to be really bright in a shop, so you can see the picture :-P 19:02:55 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 19:03:01 Deewiant, Ah yes often lots of lamps there indeed... 19:03:02 And I guess you can actually compare stuff like colours better that way 19:03:04 hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha: 19:03:07 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/6ft-by-150-inches--and-thats-just-the-tv-768862.html?action=Popup 19:03:10 WORST DEMONSTRATION PICTURE EVER 19:03:11 -!- nooga has joined. 19:03:41 uhmm 19:04:02 ehird, why do you think so? 19:04:07 both slugs 19:04:16 AnMaster: do you seriously have to ask that? :D 19:04:17 both slugs 19:04:23 ehird, what would you have preferred? 19:04:31 .boþ ſlugs 19:04:34 ehird, it is certainly not the usual style they use 19:04:48 something that isn't two fat people, one of which looks like he's looking at the other's pants :) 19:05:02 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 19:05:04 ehird, sumo wrestlers 19:05:08 i know 19:05:12 i'm just saying what it actually is 19:05:17 -!- nooga has joined. 19:05:28 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:05:42 MY HAND ITCHEÞ! TOO MUCH! VERY ANNOYING!...EÞ! 19:06:18 pikhq, ETH? Ethernet? 19:06:19 ooops 19:06:37 pikhq: EXCESSIVE MASTURBATION CAUSES ITCHY HANDS. YOU ARE CURSED... FOREVER! 19:06:40 MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA—what. 19:06:55 pikhq, you don't spell "itches" as "ITCHETH" 19:07:03 -!- nooga has joined. 19:07:04 pikhq, yes I realise it was back-converted. 19:07:10 mkay 19:07:19 but it seems either you typoed or my script is buggy 19:07:20 itcheth is perfectly valid olde english 19:07:21 boþ ſlugs 19:07:29 ehird, fuck olde english 19:07:39 AnMaster: fuck you :) 19:07:41 nooga, what are you talking about 19:07:50 itcheþ 19:07:54 AnMaster: he's written a script to do the same as pikhq/GregorR. 19:07:56 AnMaster: he is a bit sluggish 19:08:01 ah 19:08:04 mhm 19:08:04 oerjan, heh 19:08:09 don't know why 19:08:33 ehird: ⸘WHY‽ 19:08:39 but at leaſt it works 19:08:58 I rewrote that back-converter script for xchat btw. Out of wanting to help the people in here out of the pain this causes. 19:09:00 pikhq: IT IS A FAKE SIN, WHICH IS JUST LIKE A SIN EXCEPT NOT A SIN 19:09:01 puffs 19:09:12 AnMaster: unsurprisingly, you're the only one it bothers. 19:09:26 ehird, no I'm not bothered by it 19:09:28 AnMaſter: þis is fun 19:09:29 Any longer! 19:09:30 :) 19:09:40 AnMaſter: Unſurpriſingly, your monitor ſucks. 19:09:51 pikhq, so you want to pay for a better one? 19:09:56 that's very nice :) 19:10:17 No. Get ſomeþing wiþ a greater þan 4 DPI or a better font. 19:10:24 pikhq, DPI is 86 19:10:27 AnMaster: ok, ok, hypocrite alert 19:10:27 i like þat, eſpecially þat i don't ſee my converted text as converted 19:10:35 pikhq, font is Dejavu Mono Sans 9 19:10:40 or Sans Mono. 19:10:44 AnMaster: everytime you criticize something I will hold you to buying a better monitor for the person you target it at. 19:10:44 don't remember which the name is 19:10:50 boþ ſlugs 19:10:57 (if þ and p are indiſtinguiſhable, the ſame for f and ſ, ſomeþing ſucks.) 19:11:04 ehird, you meant about your suggestion about me paying for that monitor before? 19:11:12 19:09 AnMaster: pikhq, so you want to pay for a better one? 19:11:25 sloth bugs 19:11:35 sloth bugs? Sounds fun 19:11:39 yea 19:11:43 very slow yeah 19:11:45 pikhq: if you say so 19:11:51 AnMaſter: I have þe ſame font. It's very eaſy to tell þe letterſ apart. 19:12:00 Trivial, in fact. 19:12:24 pikhq, depends on monitor DPI and how your good your sight is and several other things... 19:13:01 pikhq, the main issue is with the upper case Th one and P 19:13:11 AnMaster: I can tell the different with my freaking glasses off. 19:13:14 I checked on a screenshot in gimp. Two pixels differ 19:13:18 n.... 19:13:18 boþ ſlugs 19:13:30 pikhq, without glasses I can't tell what it reads on the screen AT ALL 19:13:32 -!- uooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 19:13:53 You suck. 19:13:56 unless I'm like 10 cm from it (rather than the usual 60 cm 19:14:01 or so 19:14:08 ~50-60 19:14:14 And ſuck. 19:14:14 :p 19:14:31 Hmm. I should start using þ in my smilies to annoy AnMaster. :p 19:14:32 shut blogs 19:14:34 Erm. 19:14:36 :Þ 19:14:47 pikhq, that is easy to tell apart 19:14:56 þ isn't the same one is it? 19:15:01 since it didn't convert... 19:15:11 :thulhu 19:15:27 :thulhu <-- forgot the c... 19:15:28 You ſuck at þis, BTW. 19:15:42 AnMaster: BZZT 19:15:48 :Þ 19:15:52 nice! 19:15:56 oerjan, what was that supposed to mean.... 19:16:03 kay, dpi all works lovely. Now I just need to find a 12" 1280x1024 OLED display :-P 19:16:10 Also, :ſ 19:16:14 AnMaster: did not forget, left out on purpose 19:16:31 "Everett, who believed in quantum immortality[7], died" —Wikipedia 19:16:34 oerjan, why? I haven't read anything by Lovecraft... 19:16:59 AnMaster: irrelevant 19:17:25 you should 19:17:28 lovecraft is awesome 19:17:47 * oerjan hasn't either 19:18:06 ehird: also, Everett only died in _this_ world, obviously 19:18:09 ^style 19:18:09 Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 19:18:13 oerjan: i know, it just made me lol 19:18:18 ehird, I have been considering it. But I saw that book in a shop and it was extremely thick... something like 7 cm... 19:18:19 ^style youtube 19:18:19 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 19:18:20 i'm partial to many worlds myself 19:18:24 fungot: What the !@#$ is going on? 19:18:24 ehird, and small text 19:18:25 asiekierka: desconsertante, esperaba oir la voz de un hombre jajaja, pero no se ve una gran trama... pero bueno en las peliculas de accion lo mas importante no es precisamente la trama. it was remote controlled 19:18:29 AnMaster: His stories are short. 19:18:32 That would be a collection 19:18:45 fungot: No, I mean, what is going on? 19:18:45 asiekierka: what about the flying club which staged the show and forgetting sarah marshall? i heard from seeing this video. 19:18:46 Just read The Call of Cthulhu :-) 19:18:57 ehird, necrocomicon? something like that I believe the title was 19:19:29 (or is that the one found on the Disworld? Don't remember the spelling...) 19:19:44 AnMaster: Necronomicon is a fictional book invented by Lovecraft. 19:19:44 (obviously the discworld one was a parody on it) 19:19:59 Probably the title was reäppropriated for a collection of his stories. 19:20:02 ehird, ah they probably called the collection that then... 19:20:03 yeah 19:21:54 it seems to be wishful thinking that I could purchase a 12" OLED display at such a high resolution 19:22:05 especially as I want it raw (to put in a laptop chassis) 19:22:46 ehird, I never heard of anyone building a laptop 19:23:02 maybe due to them being so compact 19:23:13 AnMaster: i want a netbook that's extremely light and small but still usable for typing etc 19:23:21 all you need is a good hammer 19:23:24 current crop sucks 19:23:34 ehird, it would be quite a bit trickier than building a normal desktop computer 19:23:36 so the idea is: buy laptop chassis, buy thin components, hack at them until it all fits 19:23:49 AnMaster: yep 19:23:52 due to the compactness and often non-standard card size to fit in and such 19:24:00 AnMaster: heck, even most motherboard chipset heatsinks stick up too high 19:24:05 I'm not sure you could get all the components easily 19:24:08 also their upwards ram mounting system 19:24:19 (needs to be sideways for flatness) 19:24:24 yes indeed 19:24:31 I wonder how the macbook air does it 19:24:39 You couldn't even fit a fan or a drive in a case that thin 19:24:41 it doesn't 19:24:47 which is why the performance sucks so bad 19:24:49 ;P 19:24:56 AnMaster: the macbook air performance is fine 19:25:02 it's a core 2 duo w/ 2gb ram 19:25:05 (the higher model that is) 19:25:06 so. The joke failed 19:25:07 hm 19:25:10 but srsly: 19:25:11 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/MacBook_Air_black.jpg 19:25:18 ehird, it is thinner at the edges 19:25:24 i can't see an opportunity for a fan, drive, heatsink, anything really 19:25:28 so it does seem thinner than it actually is 19:25:40 hello chillin. 19:26:10 ehird, http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3217 19:26:20 i thought you didn't trust anand :) 19:26:45 * ehird clicks printed version to avoid the woes of multi-page articles 19:26:53 "The big black thing that takes up the majority of the real estate is the Air's battery" 19:26:55 what the fuck 19:26:56 it's gigantic 19:27:08 ehird, I always want to verify tests and such. "Trust him about this product being oh so great" is rather different from "showing the inside of a computer model" 19:27:12 bbl phone 19:27:23 AnMaster: erm, the ssd article had benchmark results 19:27:30 including descriptions of which benchmarks were run 19:28:18 "The MacBook Air hard drive is a 1.8", 5mm thick PATA drive from Samsung. It features a 8MB buffer and spins at 4200RPM." 19:28:22 now THAT's tiny/slow! 19:32:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:34:34 ofc i'm rather picky about what i'd want 19:34:42 built-in wifi/3g, for one 19:34:51 although i could perhaps use a pci/e card at a stretch 19:40:16 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:41:05 -!- Corun has quit. 19:41:32 -!- Corun has joined. 19:42:52 back 19:43:14 oerjan: btw, is it the actual quantum immortality position that you can't die in your own world, as opposed to only not being able to die via quantumly means? 19:43:26 ehird, yes, but it all depends on what you benchmark. I'm not saying SSD is bad. I'm just saying I'm not going to blindly trust a single source about them 19:43:37 or anything else where I plan to buy something 19:43:38 AnMaster: he used standard industry drive performance benchmarks 19:43:48 there's not really anything else more thorough you could do... 19:43:53 ehird: the former i assume 19:44:07 oerjan: it seems rather wishful 19:44:38 ehird, sure. But they don't tell everything. Reading about user experience with the units is also relevant. 19:44:54 and yes I never said SSD was bad. 19:44:58 who's got red beard? 19:44:58 AnMaster: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-ssds.html 19:45:00 me 19:45:02 good enough for you? ;) 19:45:04 who's awesome? 19:45:06 ehird: _every_ mean is a quantum mean 19:45:09 i am awesome 19:45:13 oerjan: yeah 19:45:16 Just I never trust one single source where I plan to buy something 19:45:19 oerjan: but the whole thing seems wishful 19:45:24 s/where/when/ 19:45:29 well duh 19:45:44 oerjan: i'm just wondering why they think it apart from pure wishfulness 19:46:25 lol 19:46:32 philosophy? 19:46:50 (also why the heck are you asking me...) 19:47:03 oerjan: you're a mathematician. mathematicians know everything to do with mathematics. 19:47:06 "A committed atheist, he had asked to be thrown out with the trash after his death." 19:47:20 "Everett's daughter, Elizabeth, suffered from schizophrenia and committed suicide in 1996 (saying in her suicide note that she was going to a parallel universe to be with her father)" 19:47:21 erm 19:47:24 I don't think it works that way 19:47:24 average ruby code looks like: @a = a; @b = b; ...; @n = n; some.quite.long.dot.chain.map! {|lalala| ... }.something 19:48:05 well no they don't, also many worlds is a physical theory, at least at the level where quantum immortality would happen... 19:48:17 oerjan: well yes they do! :-) 19:48:20 it's a true fact. 19:49:45 Torvalds blogs... didn't think he was that type 19:50:01 he started very recently 19:50:20 oerjan: erm he started in 2008-10 19:50:27 * coppro tries to imagine RMS bloggin 19:50:28 so 6 months 19:50:29 +g 19:50:30 that's very recently 19:50:33 coppro: he does 19:50:38 * coppro explodes 19:50:38 http://stallman.org/ 19:50:39 of a sort 19:50:46 it's a bit too lo-fi to be called a blog exactly 19:50:51 but it's just as obnoxious as your average on 19:50:52 e 19:51:01 hahaha he still has the don't buy harry potter books then 19:51:04 *thing 19:51:08 at the top of his page 19:51:19 http://stallman.org/images/cartoon-economists.png 19:51:19 O_O 19:51:21 "SHIP OF STATE" 19:51:24 "ECONOMISTS" 19:51:31 How to know your comic sucks ass: you label things. 19:51:40 It's a meter four, see! 19:52:04 * oerjan recalls triangle & robert's sheep 19:52:29 "US citizens: The site change.org allows people to propose and support political ideas. One that I supported is a new investigation of how the 9/11 attacks were carried out, and who was responsible." 19:52:30 —RMS 19:52:34 hahaha he's a truther? 19:52:37 brilliant 19:52:52 "As individual suspects, Bush and Cheney must not be punished without being convicted in a fair trial. As the level of politics, however, given that they blocked and corrupted the investigation into their possible guilt, we must consider them guilty until a real investigation is allowed." 19:53:02 As we all know, people are guilty until proven innocent, if we don't like them. 19:54:09 well, not everyone. but you are. 19:54:09 ehird: truer words have not been spoken! 19:54:20 also, i agree, ehird, you're guilty. 19:54:29 Also, free speech only applies to people who are right. 19:54:39 GUILTY/SILENCE 19:54:44 ofcourse! if you're wrong, you have to pay to speak.. 19:54:50 yes, lefties are commies and should have no free speech 19:55:26 heck they don't really want it anyway 19:55:44 as soon as they get power, they abolish it 19:57:06 same with the chinks and the niggers in africa 19:57:13 I should argue that SILENCE violates the right of participation in the fora 19:57:21 nigger nigger nigger nigger 19:57:43 Nigger is a word meaning nigger. 19:57:48 Why are we talking about niggers again? 19:57:50 Oh, oerjan. 19:57:53 That bloody racist. 19:58:26 it's not racism if it's a fact. look at how the chinks are _helping_ the niggers in africa get rid of free speech. 19:59:04 and a little genocide on the side 19:59:26 Genoside on the cide 19:59:50 funny thing 19:59:56 there are black ppl everywhere 20:00:00 and the muslims 20:00:07 why is that funny 20:00:07 we should always be on the side of the genes. how can that be racism? 20:00:38 jean 20:00:39 jeans 20:00:41 nooga: well that's because they're breading like pigs 20:00:45 *breeding 20:00:46 and they start to force western europe to obey them in some way 20:00:48 sorry about that 20:01:17 actually that should be rabbits, at least for the muslims, they don't care for pigs 20:01:39 in Poland: muslims come and say "obey our stupid rights to kill our wives" and poles don't give a fuck, beat them hardly and let them go to their countries 20:01:49 the chinks do though, that's why we have so much flu 20:01:51 "We didn't invite you. eot." 20:02:11 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:02:14 ppl are sooo untolerant here 20:04:45 BUTTS!!! LOL 20:05:37 hmm 20:06:09 is there a way to order something in an internet store and recieve that without having them know who you are? 20:06:21 anonymous mailbox? ;f 20:08:21 yes 20:08:23 mailinator.com 20:08:42 nooga: just use their generated address 20:08:45 and click on it after using it 20:08:55 then you can just trash it 20:08:56 ehird: Erm, not emailbox 20:09:03 ohhhh 20:09:03 :D 20:09:05 i mean 20:09:08 irl 20:09:09 the real mail 20:09:11 nooga: erm a po box or sth? 20:09:15 i think you can't do that by design 20:09:27 hehe 20:09:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:10:00 nooga: can't you just use a fake name 20:10:02 w/ a real address 20:10:08 nooga mcnoogason 20:10:26 but po box seems to be the thang 20:10:26 funny thing that you could send mail without post stamps: enter reciever as sender, you as a reciever, put thing in mailbox 20:10:38 the letter will be sent to the right person 20:11:12 :D 20:11:21 nooga: only in poland i assume 20:11:25 yea 20:11:30 but they've noticed it 20:11:39 and it does not work anymore 20:11:54 :) 20:11:57 because mail without post stamps was supposed to be sent back to the sender 20:12:05 yeah 20:19:47 when i write my name and surname 20:20:32 i should use: Marcin Gasperowicz or Martin Gasperowicz or Martin Gasperovitch 20:20:35 ?:D 20:20:50 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:21:32 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:30:07 ais523: how does eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer work? 20:30:37 ehird: read the wiki 20:30:52 i did 20:31:55 ais523: didn't help. 20:34:28 Why, there's no eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer page on the wiki. 20:35:24 How odd! 20:35:48 GregorR-L: Why, you've ſtopped þe ſcript. 20:36:04 psygnisfive was being bitchy :P 20:36:12 ere, 'ts back. 20:36:18 Stab him hard. 20:36:20 ^_^ 20:36:20 i wasnt being bitchy 20:36:24 i was saying you were doing it wrong 20:36:31 AND you were doing it by a script 20:36:33 which is lame 20:36:39 your mother is lame 20:36:43 pikhq: See. 20:36:44 VERY true 20:36:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:37:18 psygnisfive: Þou ſeëſt þat we care not. 20:37:18 ;) 20:37:53 pikhq: seëst? 20:38:03 the two Es are pronounced the same 20:38:05 fix it to at least do long-s where it should be: non-word finally not after a long-s 20:38:13 ¨ represents two vowels in a row that are pronounced differently 20:38:22 pſygnisfive: Uhhhhh, þat's what it doþ do. 20:38:26 ehird: yes, that was his intention 20:38:36 Wouldn't it be "seeëst" 20:38:38 gregorr-l: apparently not! 20:38:44 Deewiant: yep 20:38:52 ehird: I was wondering if þou wouldſt catch þat. :p 20:38:55 seëst is pronounced seh-ehst 20:39:02 which is dumbtarded :) 20:39:05 why would it be seeëst? 20:39:12 see-est 20:39:18 psygnisfive: ſee-est. 20:39:19 what Deewiant sed 20:39:20 Erm. 20:39:22 pſygnisfive: Every inſtance of it in þat laſt ſentence, and þis one, is non-word-final and not after a long-s ... 20:39:25 psygnisfive: ſee-eſt. 20:39:29 oh sorry i misread what he meant to say 20:39:33 shouldn't that be seést? 20:39:37 i am confused! 20:39:45 myndzi: Not in Engliſh. 20:39:58 oh right, i'm reading up 20:40:02 GregorR-L: : yes, and yet a non-word-final not-after-long-s "s" was NOT converted! 20:40:05 in my NAME! 20:40:07 but i've never seen ë in english 20:40:09 anywhere 20:40:16 GregorR-L: "pſygnisfive" 20:40:22 whats that s doing there before f 20:40:23 HUH? 20:40:28 your script is broken 20:40:34 psygnisfive: s before f is always ſhort. 20:40:53 lies 20:41:03 No, 'tis true. 20:41:15 psygnisfive's name is ghoti 20:41:18 I was told by pikhq to do it at way, and I'm waaaay to lazy to look it up. 20:41:34 I looked it up. 20:41:40 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 20:41:55 Þou wouldſt do well to do þe ſame. 20:42:08 ha ha ha! all your work is wasted! i just replaced them all back to something that looks right 20:42:09 :> 20:42:22 myndzi: Þou ſeem to have done þat much faſter þan AnMaſter. 20:42:55 myndzi: Uſing AnMaſter's ſcript? It's quite broken. Þought þou ſhould know. 20:42:57 correction: seemest! (seem'st?) 20:43:04 ? 20:43:14 no, i just added an input filter in my own script 20:43:19 to turn all the unicodes back to their proper letters 20:43:39 Ah. So, not AnMaſter's broken ſcript. 20:43:48 placement doesn't matter in that case, obviously ;) 20:43:54 so i can ignore the rules 20:44:43 I ſould ſtab þou hard. 20:45:24 * #eſoteric :Illegal channel name 20:45:26 :( 20:45:30 s/ſould/ſhould/ 20:45:46 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:45:51 GregorR-L: /topic #esoteric #eſoteric: ... 20:45:58 pikhq: I tried to /join 20:45:59 :P 20:46:26 Alſo, əſötərıc FTW? 20:46:34 FTL 20:46:41 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 20:47:33 myndzi: "reënter" 20:48:29 -!- nooga has joined. 20:48:31 never seen it 20:48:39 with the dots 20:48:51 Not surprising, it's archaic 20:49:06 It's actually ſtill in (rare) uſe, moſt people juſt ignore it. 20:49:08 it's the most beautiful-est archaism ever 20:49:26 Deewiant: IIRC, a few publications ſtill use it. 20:49:30 s/use/uſe/ 20:49:33 i've seen accents not dots 20:49:36 pikhq: Yes, but it's still archaic. 20:49:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floptical 20:49:39 FLOPTICAL! 20:49:41 what's eomdermderomedomromeodmeormeormormodmeoreodmeofmeormdoemroemdomeroemdoer 20:49:43 but not for the double vowel thing 20:50:12 Naïve is ſtill conſidered correct. 20:50:21 The New Yorker, for example, ſtill uſes it. 20:50:21 I ſtill ſpell it þat way. 20:50:24 nooga: eomermdrome? 20:50:25 Err 20:50:28 eodermdrome* 20:50:40 Þe diacritical mark in Engliſh means "pronounce þis vowel ſeparately, not as a diphtong" 20:50:57 sucks 20:51:22 Engliſh needs it, IMO. 20:51:34 the new yorker is so pretentious :) 20:51:54 ehird: Correct Engliſh is pretentious now? 20:52:04 the new yorker is pretentious in general 20:52:05 Well, fuck. 20:52:23 ī 20:52:24 ? 20:52:51 nooga: Þat's moſt commonly uſed in the Romanization of Japaneſe. 20:53:07 i ſee 20:53:10 Erm, never mind. 20:53:25 Macrons are uſed to elongate everything *but* i. 20:53:39 i is doubled, inſtead. 20:53:48 ah 20:54:25 "Benkyō shimasu" is an obvious example... 20:54:28 Instyd of ryplacing all vywyls with q, how abyt jyst ryplacing a, e, u, ae and ou with y? 20:55:01 Actuylly, ryplace i wyth y too. 20:55:08 Vyry Wylsh. 20:55:09 ehird: I killeſt þou. 20:55:32 BTW, y in Welſh is a single vowel. ;) 20:55:41 pykhq: Shyt yp (ooh, thyt doysn't work too wyll), hythyn. 20:56:04 Cymrag. 20:56:09 Yeah, but w in Welſh is a vowel. 20:56:10 silence, knave! 20:56:12 ;) 20:56:14 So ſcrew Welſh. 20:56:19 knyvy? 20:56:24 o ynd y: thy two myn vowyls of thy world. 20:56:27 GregorR-L: Welſh has fun phonemes. ;) 20:56:28 i get spam in Welsh 20:56:45 a friend of mine skeaks fluent welsh o.o 20:57:31 Q qqqq, qqq'q qqqq qqqqqqq QQQQQQQQQQ qqqq Q! 20:57:35 I wonder how one ſkeaks. 20:57:43 Ryplacying yll syqyncys of vowyls ypyrt from o wyth y ys a fyn thyng to do. 20:57:53 Usch 20:57:56 Eh 20:57:58 Ouch 20:58:00 i'll replace your mom with a y 20:58:03 OOH! 20:58:37 ehird: It doeþn't make Engliſh incomprehenſible, but only becauſe Engliſh is comprehenſible wiþout vowels. 20:58:54 Fr 'xmpl, cnſdr þs ſntnc. 20:58:54 ;) 20:59:01 Wh nds vwls nw. 20:59:12 nn 20:59:12 i'd like to buy a vowel 20:59:31 'nglſh 's vry wll ſrvd by 'n 'bjd. 20:59:32 nooga, nice one there 20:59:34 Ryplycying syqyncys of vowyls ypyrt from o ynd u wyth y ys a fun thyng to do. (Us yre sycryd.) 20:59:35 I mean 20:59:43 ng, nc n thr 20:59:47 thnk 20:59:57 ' knw, bcs my cſtm wrtng ſyſtm 's 'n. 21:00:25 has started a new Hangman game! 21:00:28 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: Left: 10) 21:00:38 How do one play? 21:00:45 .. !guess letter(s) 21:00:51 !guess e 21:00:52 each letter counts as a guess 21:00:54 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: e Left: 9) 21:00:56 !guess þ 21:00:57 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþ Left: 7) 21:01:00 Deewiant: lol 21:01:01 laf 21:01:02 <.< 21:01:07 !guess a 21:01:08 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþa Left: 6) 21:01:11 !guess s 21:01:11 it doesn't count utf-8 properly 21:01:12 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas Left: 5) 21:01:13 ...no wovels 21:01:17 !guess ð 21:01:18 i figured you guys were talkin about how you didn't like vowels 21:01:19 :> 21:01:20 Already guessed: à 21:01:20 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas° Left: 4) 21:01:37 !guess r 21:01:39 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas°r Left: 3) 21:01:41 !guess ŧ 21:01:41 :( 21:01:42 !guess q 21:01:42 (Hangman) ??????? (Guessed: eþas°rŧ Left: 1) 21:01:44 (Hangman) Game over! (Answer: godhood) 21:01:45 but that's not really true, this is just my favorite hangman word to use 21:02:04 GregorR-L: Dammit, I was trying for -1 guesses left 21:02:04 Nice one 21:02:18 haha 21:02:22 probably would have worked too 21:02:24 Deewiant: It'd be even nicer to have -2. 21:02:27 Hm 21:02:39 i've also got... 21:02:44 !hang ?y?y?y abc 21:02:45 No matches. 21:02:46 pikhq: Or -3. Of course, if it accepts -1 you can probably do any -n. 21:02:51 guess i spelled it wrong 21:02:51 Þough for þat, you'd need ſomeþing out of þe BMP, m'þinks. 21:03:13 Well yes, 0xffff is 3 bytes. 21:03:15 actually, no it wouldn't have worked 21:03:21 it's seeing your utf-8 characters as separate letters 21:03:31 yeah 21:03:31 and it already has support for not going negative 21:03:32 like 21:03:33 !guess abcdhf 21:03:34 for example 21:03:45 !guess aeiouy 21:04:00 myndzi has started a new Hangman game! (Hint: lols) 21:04:02 (Hangman) ????????? (Guessed: Left: 10) 21:04:06 !guess aeiouy 21:04:08 (Hangman) ?o?e??i?? (Guessed: auy Left: 7) 21:04:09 !guess abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 21:04:09 (Hangman) Game over! (Answer: something) 21:04:11 :-D 21:04:12 see :P 21:04:20 one fun thing i used to do when i ran this script is 21:04:27 when i have a guess for the word, 21:04:35 i'd try to come up with a !guess that would say something and also win 21:04:47 (say the remaining letters in the correct order without running out of guesses, but in sentence form) 21:05:03 !hang ?o?e??i?? y 21:05:03 No matches. 21:05:08 hmm, something's wrong 21:05:15 maybe it can't find the wordlist 21:05:24 !hang a butt 21:05:26 butt 21:05:32 yes myndzi 21:05:32 butt 21:05:40 .....or i could have forgotten my own syntax 21:05:41 lol. 21:05:45 !hang f ?y?y?y 21:05:46 syzygy 21:05:52 that is the case :( 21:05:56 !hang / /g/g/ 21:05:58 No matches. 21:06:02 !hang aeiouy ?o?e??i?? 21:06:03 No matches. 21:06:12 !hang auy ?o?e??i?? 21:06:13 No matches. 21:06:15 wtf 21:06:16 !hang abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ?f?t?r??f 21:06:20 No matches. 21:06:25 the letters are exclusions 21:06:34 Heh 21:06:40 !hang z ?o?e??i?? 21:06:40 !hang z ??????? 21:06:41 No matches. 21:06:42 aarrghh abalone abandon abasers abashed abashes abasias abasing abaters abating abators abattis abaxial abaxile abbotcy abdomen abduced abduces abducts abelian abelias abettal abetted abetter abettor abeyant abfarad abhenry abiders abiding abigail ability abioses abiosis abiotic abjured abjurer abjures ablated ablates ablauts ablings abluent abluted aboding abolish abollae abomasa abomasi aborted aborter 21:06:43 abought aboulia aboulic abounds abraded abrader abrades abreact abreast abridge abroach abrosia abscess abscise abscond abseils absence absents absinth absolve absorbs abstain absurds abubble abulias abusers abusing abusive abuttal abutted abutter abvolts abwatts abysmal abyssal abysses acacias academe academy acajous acaleph acanthi acapnia acarids acarine acaroid acaudal acceded acceder accedes accents 21:06:44 accepts accidia accidie acclaim accords accosts account accrete accrual accrued accrues accurst accusal accused accuser accuses acedias acequia acerate acerber acerbic acerola acerose acerous acetals acetate acetify acetins acetone acetose acetous acetyls achenes achiest achieve achiote acholia acicula acidify acidity aciform 21:06:44 !hang z ?f?t?r??f 21:06:46 uh oh 21:06:48 No matches. 21:06:51 Uh, all right 21:06:52 i knew someone'd do that eventually :\ 21:06:53 !hang ???? 21:06:58 'something' must not be in the ospd3 21:07:01 not the ideal wordlist i guess 21:07:01 -!- whtspc has joined. 21:07:08 hi whtspc 21:07:16 weird 21:07:17 it isn't 21:07:23 Meh, I couldn't know what'd happen, could I? 21:07:36 [22:06:42] aarrghh 21:07:36 Heh 21:07:43 !hang eou wh?t?sp?c? 21:07:48 No matches. 21:07:52 er wait 21:07:55 -e 21:07:56 !hang ou wh?t?sp?c? 21:07:56 probably not a dictionary word 21:08:00 No matches. 21:08:05 if someone wants to link me to a proper wordlist i'll put that in :P 21:08:50 !hang aou sp?ll?ng 21:08:54 spelling spilling 21:09:00 if you wanna screw around there's also /msg myndzi !hangman #channel "word or phrase" hint text 21:09:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("But ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"). 21:10:18 myndzi: Maybe http://rs249.rapidshare.com/files/81559933/1.5_Million_Word_List.rar is better 21:10:21 Do you always get 10 guesses? 21:10:43 !hangman #esoteric "word or phrase" hint text 21:11:07 Deewiant: i have a bigger one but it's a little bit too big :) 21:11:14 FireFly: yes 21:11:18 How can it be too big :-P 21:11:21 myndzi: that's what 21:11:21 SH 21:11:22 E 21:11:24 SAID 21:11:26 GregorR-L: 21:11:28 dkf 21:11:32 Deewiant: it takes a long time to search 21:11:46 No clever data structures? 21:11:59 it's a silly mirc script 21:12:02 it just uses /filter with a regex 21:12:10 Ugh 21:12:21 the problem isn't the size, it's what it's implemented in :P 21:12:23 which itself is reasonably fast, just not on 200mb files 21:12:29 not in this case 21:12:33 Ah, well 21:12:37 none of the filtering is done in mirc script :) so it's pretty fast 21:12:49 I don't remember that much from when I scripted in mIRC 21:12:54 wait 21:12:57 200mb was the COMPRESSED version 21:12:58 But I remember that vars are stored in external files 21:13:07 that musta been a long time ago 21:13:15 they still are, but local variables are in memory 21:13:21 I sure hope so 21:13:34 and i'm pretty sure the variable file is cached in memory too 21:13:44 but i'm reasonably certain it's not held in a hash table or something useful like that 21:13:58 FireFly: But I remember that vars are stored in external files 21:14:00 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttt 21:14:25 myndzi: A 200-megabytes-compressed wordlist? Nice. 21:14:42 I think the biggest I have/had lying around is 70 uncompressed 21:16:03 what the fuck... 21:16:15 # file -s /dev/sr0 21:16:15 /dev/sr0: ERROR: cannot read `/dev/sr0' (Input/output error) 21:16:21 there is a CD in it 21:16:27 the same happens for all cds 21:16:27 Bad CD or drive 21:17:25 Deewiant, cd works in other computer. Guess I will have to shut down and check that every cable is properly attached... 21:17:38 (since I had to move stuff around in the computer recently) 21:18:38 Deewiant: that's pretty much why it is slow :) 21:18:40 very well. It isn't urgent, while other stuff is. And I will have to shut down soon anyway, since one of the fans in the computer is breaking down... 21:18:53 the replacement one should arrive at Monday 21:19:25 however 21:19:27 ejecting works 21:19:29 very strange 21:19:34 I mean 21:19:38 with the eject command 21:19:54 -!- whtspc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"). 21:20:29 AnMaster: There are plenty of parts that could be broken in such a way that discs can't be read but the mechanism still works. 21:20:43 hm 21:21:02 (On the software side too, I guess.) 21:21:09 well I do have some other old optical units... could use one of them 21:21:21 Deewiant, and yes. rebooting is worth a try. later 21:21:33 * AnMaster wonders about streaming cd across network 21:21:41 since the other computer is headless 21:21:58 If your network is fast enough, the drive will be the bottleneck :-P 21:22:20 cat /dev/sr0 | nc and nc | aplay ? 21:22:23 well no 21:22:32 but that seems like a bad solution 21:23:30 Deewiant, [computer with working cd player] - 100 mbps ethernet - [gbit ethernet switch] - gbit ethernet - [computer with speakers] 21:23:33 should be fast enough 21:23:38 but what is a good WAY to do it 21:23:41 was what I meant 21:23:53 why is that a bad solution 21:23:56 that's what nc is designed for 21:24:05 ehird: It transmits the whole disc needlessly. 21:24:06 ehird, well.. aplay directly won't work. 21:24:12 also 21:24:12 Deewiant: what? 21:24:13 cat /dev/foo is quite wasteful. 21:24:17 so? 21:24:19 I want to listen to the 5th track 21:24:22 If he just wants to play a track 21:24:23 not all the other ones 21:24:26 Deewiant, indeed 21:24:30 ehm ripping a cd takes like 3 minutes 21:24:34 shorter than you've been taling 21:24:35 talking 21:24:36 the whole thing 21:24:38 so why does it matter 21:24:45 ehird, 3 minutes? the computer is an old pentium3 21:24:50 it is slow for everything 21:24:54 What's the drive's speed? 21:24:56 the drive is a 4x 21:24:57 ... 21:25:01 Hmm, 4x 21:25:02 it's IO-bound you doofus 21:25:11 everything to do with CDs is IO-bound 21:25:13 That's around 0.6 MB/s 21:25:20 Deewiant, iirc. might be 2x... *wonders how to check* 21:25:29 1x is around 150 KiB/s 21:25:58 there is no speed written on the drive itself 21:26:02 as far as I can see 21:26:05 So if you have a 650 MB disc that's 18 minutes 21:26:27 Just ripping the one WAV that you want would take a lot less than that 21:26:32 ... 650 MB disc that's 18 minutes? 21:26:39 um 21:26:44 'scuse me, what sort of huge 18 minutes is this? 21:26:54 1x would be 74 minutes iirc? 21:26:58 or something like that 21:27:01 assuming full disc 21:27:08 ehird: 650 MB / 0.6 MB/s = 18 minutes 21:27:47 Oh. 21:27:51 You meant, to rip. 21:27:56 I thought you meant 18 minutes of audial content. 21:28:52 anyway. It is 4x. Says cdparanoia 21:29:02 Then it's the 0.6 MB/s I was using above. 21:31:05 ehird, so those 3 minutes were a bit low estimate 21:31:06 :P 21:31:16 i was assuming a modern ~40x drive 21:31:24 Well, you've been talking 15 minutes now ;-) 21:31:29 ehird, the broken drive is 40x 21:31:42 Deewiant, it as been ripping for ~7 minutes 21:32:02 ehird, wait, it is 48x even... 21:33:26 oh this is STRANGE 21:33:43 now reading on the "broken" drive works in cdparanoia. Not with file though 21:33:57 wait what 21:34:15 it is finding the drive at /dev/sg1 instead of the usual /dev/sr0 21:34:15 cdparanoia bypasses the device layr 21:34:16 layer 21:34:16 iirc 21:34:23 NOW THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL 21:34:29 :( 21:34:48 file -s /dev/sg0 can't read it still 21:36:52 err nor sg1 21:37:00 I don't HAVE two cd drives 21:37:11 lshw claims it is at sr0 21:38:30 eject /dev/sg1 doesn't do anything, eject /dev/sr0 ejects the expected drive 21:38:52 ok... 21:40:15 hm 21:40:29 it behaves more sanely for data cds 21:40:34 but why are music cds broken 21:41:03 I mean, nothing can play them now 21:44:25 ok. nfs is acting strange 21:44:53 ls shows a file is there. tab complete claimed it wasn't. Until I waited for half a minute 21:45:00 how strange 21:46:34 Deewiant, btw the music cd seems to have been a full 700 MB? I didn't know that was valid for music cds 21:46:52 on the other hand I can't see a good reason for it to not be valid. 21:48:23 $ file track00.cdda.wav 21:48:23 track00.cdda.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz 21:48:25 that's odd 21:48:30 it isn't playable 21:49:13 od shows it is mostly zero bytes 21:49:19 try track 01. 21:49:21 zero bytes with a wav header 21:49:21 it's probably a data track 21:49:32 ehird, for a cd from 1987? 21:49:40 who knows :P 21:50:42 ehird, http://pastebin.ca/1441501 21:50:57 try track 01. 21:51:06 ehird, yes that is correct 21:51:07 but 21:51:14 I was wondering what on earth this one was! 21:51:18 dud disk header? 21:51:37 dud? typo for dude? 21:51:49 dud as in dud. 21:51:51 ah 21:52:03 well maybe cdparanoia -B generates that 21:52:08 haven't noticed it before though 21:52:39 meh 21:56:25 ok... /dev/sg* seems to be character device access to drives (not sure which types of drives yet... since I have sg0 to sg3 and just two harddrives (one sata and one pata) and one cd/dvd drive...) 21:56:29 (in that computer) 21:56:44 sr0 is the block device 21:58:12 why does it play so much lower than usual.... 21:58:23 meh 21:58:39 * pikhq observes that a music CD can have up to 800 MB. 21:59:01 A 700 MB CD-ROM has 100MB of data correction overhead. 22:10:58 hm.. http://pastebin.ca/1441510 22:11:01 what the hell 22:11:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:12:35 that happens every time I try to read an *audio* cd 22:18:08 pikhq: Except at it's practically guaranteed to be flawed :P 22:18:41 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 22:21:11 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 22:21:45 * AnMaster test rips with cdparanoia 22:22:03 works... 22:22:25 would this mean the issue is purely a software problem? 22:22:26 ehird, ^ 22:23:31 since 1) only audio cd, 2) only accessing it using the usual sr interface that most software players use. 3) cdparanoia reads it using the sg interface. Not sure if it usually does that... 22:27:06 GregorR-L: No, it's not. A CDDA also contains error correction. 22:27:08 Just less of it. 22:28:22 Not to my recollection, but þat's hardly my area of expertiſe :P 22:30:58 CDDA includes cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon coding. 22:32:10 Which is a slightly complex parity scheme. 22:50:02 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:17:09 "Or were you referring to Intel macs, rather than Apple macs?" 23:17:16 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt 23:26:55 actually, what about IBM macs? 23:27:35 ais523: vut? 23:27:50 I was drawing an analogy with Intel macs 23:29:07 I know 23:33:26 -!- dbc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:42:16 IBM Macs? Well, IBM could in *theory* have gone into the Mac clone business when Apple allowed it. 23:42:30 Juſt like Intel haþ now? ;) 23:42:43 GregorR-L: Nah. 23:42:52 It'd be funny if Intel made some Macs, though. 23:47:05 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:47:55 Hmm. 23:48:06 Finding somewhere that sells OLED displays is hard. 23:48:16 The OS X EULA forbids installing OS X on "non Apple-labeled computers". 23:48:41 pikhq: No, that loophole won't work. 23:48:45 Lawyers. :) 23:48:51 ... Wouldn't sticking an Apple label on a computer work? :p 23:48:54 They have the cash to paper over that loophole, you don't. 23:49:00 people have discussed that quite a bit 23:49:08 pikhq: but, nothing's stopping you ripping out the EULA 23:49:10 although I can't remember what the conclusions were 23:49:17 so that you never run it 23:49:23 I think it was argued that the EULA meant "was labeled by Apple" 23:49:26 The more valid question is: does that count as an antitrust violation? 23:49:27 although that's probably illegal too 23:49:30 pikhq: no 23:49:37 so it doesn't matter what sort of label's on there, just so long as Apple put it there 23:49:41 apple are perfectly allowed to require their users only to sue it on their hardware 23:50:07 myndzi: congrats on knocking defend9 off the top spot 23:50:21 did you improve your programs, or is the hill just more hostile to defend9alikes now? 23:50:23 ehird: Unless it's determined that, in doing so, they are violating antitrust laws. 23:50:31 pikhq: Burden of proof 23:50:34 ehird: have you seen defend9 by the way? it's insane 23:50:44 ais523: dunno 23:50:44 Any such bundling, though probably legal, is a somewhat tricky area. 23:52:05 Not going to definitively say anything, of course, since, well, I don't have the time or give-a-damn to read hundreds of pages of legalese. 23:52:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:52:24 (I assume the US antitrust laws consume one or more volumes) 23:52:42 One volume per antitruſt lawyer. 23:52:51 GregorR-L: Sounds about right. 23:54:46 * pikhq observes that if companies like Psystar were smart, they wouldn't have OS X preinstalled. They would instead have an EFI computer and a Darwin driver disk. Maybe also sell OS X discs. 23:56:01 they can't legally sell OS X discs 23:56:05 Psystar is simply an illegal business. 23:56:28 i don't like their business at all 23:56:44 I assumed that you would read "Maybe" as "if they could get to be Apple authorised resellers somehow". 23:56:54 Likelyhood of that: vanishingly small. 23:56:58 Yeha. 23:56:59 *likelihood 23:57:13 They could legally sell a computer with EFI and some Darwin drivers, though. 23:57:26 Hackintoshes are stupid, just use Linux :P 23:57:36 After all, EFI is an open standard and Darwin is a free operating system. 23:58:11 Heck, they could even have a GNU/Darwin install on there and say "Supports the Darwin operating system, that is the base of Mac OS X (wink wink nudge nudge)." 23:58:35 But just straight up selling OS X on the computer preinstalled? Dumber than a sack of rocks. 23:58:54 http://static.arstechnica.com/macpro0409/3neh_internalshr.jpg ← if there's one thing a mac pro has over a regular pc it's a well-designed interior... 23:59:14 (That bottom compartment slots out.) 23:59:33 (It's actually a separate daughterboard that the RAM is on.) 23:59:39 (And the CPUs. Go figure.) 23:59:49 Huh, those CPUs look fanless. 23:59:58 Must be cooled by case fans. Or the fans are in the heatsink.