00:00:17 loggits. 00:09:54 estoppel: oklopol: 2.5 kB/s → pause utorrent man <<< already paused 00:10:09 oklopol: O_O 00:10:14 what connection is this 00:11:02 dna's... blob. this usb thing, very slow, and i'm in the middle of nothing atm 00:11:27 oh 00:11:41 oklopol: well the smallest i could get it would be like 5mb and it'd look and sound like shit then 00:11:45 8mb for something that's kind of okay 00:11:47 oklopol: how far done is it 00:12:09 6.0 / 23.2 00:12:47 oklopol: how long's been going 00:13:30 doesn't show 00:13:41 since 1:15 it seems 00:13:49 what time is it there 00:13:53 judging by my messages 00:13:59 2:13 00:14:12 ok 00:14:18 will you be awake in 3 hours :D 00:14:54 i will watch one episode of scrubs while massaging feet, then sleep. 00:15:07 oklopol: so um how long do those episodes last 00:15:15 21:07 00:15:30 oklopol: I read that as "while messaging feet" 00:15:32 It was weird. 00:15:51 oklopol: no way i'm gonna be able to make a file that small without it being unwatchable 00:15:53 watch it tomorrow. 00:16:07 yeah i guess. 00:17:10 the connection was like 0.1 kB/s at first, so actually you probably could 00:17:15 faster now 00:17:34 oklopol: yeah but you'd have to restart it. 00:17:45 how much left does it estimate? 00:17:52 about an hour. 00:17:52 You can't change the encoding midway? LAME. 00:18:04 GregorR: lawl 00:18:18 so if you got it to 8, about half an hour 00:19:10 oklopol: just stay awake because you can't possibly wait. 00:19:12 but don't bother 00:20:18 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:22:43 -!- sgeo has joined. 00:23:57 haha this is so hard to transcript 00:24:03 transcribe rather 00:28:04 Y'know what I just realized? It's weird that Google still has a Firefox start page :P 00:28:23 But then again, what are they supposed to do, put ads for Google Chrome on it? 00:28:31 why? 00:28:42 oh because that. 00:28:45 xD 00:28:52 GregorR: google recommend firefox too 00:29:01 e.g. in youtube's "lol we're gonna stop supporting ur shit ie6" 00:31:54 GregorR: google have a lot of relation with browser makers anyway 00:32:13 safari and firefox get $$$$$$$ for google searches from their toolbar 00:42:32 where's oerjan when you need him 00:43:17 asleep! 00:44:10 :< 00:44:11 oklopol: how's download 00:46:52 only 1 hours, 26 minutes left! 00:46:55 :D 00:46:57 woot 00:47:00 sleepy time i think 00:47:10 gotten slower again 00:47:17 :< 00:47:21 i made it just for you oklopol 00:47:23 set it all up 00:47:26 it's still right behind me 00:47:28 HOW COULD YOU 00:47:29 ;_; 00:47:35 the connection can occasionally drop for hours, not really surprising it's not that stable when it's on. 00:47:51 i'm sorry :<<<<< 00:47:57 sleepy time i think. 00:59:40 -!- MizardX- has joined. 01:00:43 -!- MizardX- has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:01:08 -!- MizardX- has joined. 01:02:42 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:03:04 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 01:07:45 ============================================================== 01:07:45 The (Interactive) Glasgow Haskell Compiler -- version 6.10.4 01:07:46 ============================================================== 01:07:48 Cool. 01:08:14 (define you (cons nigger nigger)) 01:09:08 No. 01:10:53 -!- Gracenotes has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:53 -!- coppro has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:54 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:54 -!- randomity has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:54 -!- Leonidas has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:55 -!- upyr[ema` has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:56 -!- GregorR has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:56 -!- olsner has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- MizardX has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- fizziew has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- fungot has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- fizzie has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:10:57 -!- Deewiant has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:11:37 -!- MizardX has joined. 01:11:37 -!- coppro has joined. 01:11:37 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 01:11:37 -!- upyr[ema` has joined. 01:11:37 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 01:11:37 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:11:37 -!- fizziew has joined. 01:11:37 -!- GregorR has joined. 01:11:37 -!- Leonidas has joined. 01:11:37 -!- randomity has joined. 01:11:37 -!- olsner has joined. 01:11:37 -!- fungot has joined. 01:11:37 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 01:11:37 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:17:39 . 01:20:55 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:21:18 n! = (n ∏ k=1) k ∀n ∈ ℕ 01:21:54 Does that definition works for n = 0? 01:22:54 Well, we're looking at numbers between 1 to 0; if we interpret this as ascending like every other case, there are no numbers to consider. 01:23:03 If we interpret it as descending, there aren't any either. 01:23:07 *between 1 and 0 01:23:13 Well, you could include 1. 01:23:22 Yeah, you would, actually. 01:23:27 1*2*3 etc. 01:23:31 So it'd work out to 1. 01:23:54 Slereah: Actually: 01:23:59 Both of the above definitions incorporate the instance 01:24:01 0! = 1 01:24:06 as an instance of the fact that the product of no numbers at all is 1. 01:24:09 0 != 1 01:24:12 So my first way was right. 01:24:24 ais523: Thank you, that's utterly useless :P 01:24:29 yep 01:27:47 ais523: I'm not sure "(n ∏ k=1) k" is a reasonable linear expression of that, though. 01:27:58 Maybe n ∏ k=1: k or something would be better. 01:47:11 -!- sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 01:47:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:03:19 estoppel, there? yes now I am <-- damn missed you.... now what was it I wanted to ask hm... meh forgot 02:03:27 hi ais523 02:03:31 wait 02:03:32 Find it within yourself. 02:03:33 Aum. 02:03:34 hi 02:03:35 I said that already right? 02:03:41 Auuum. 02:03:48 AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM 02:04:11 18% 6800KB 2.9KB/s - stalled - <-- scp to NZ isn't a good solution when both end has DSL 02:04:14 ADSL even 02:04:26 ADSL is better than other DSL, no? 02:04:37 apart from ADSL2 and ADSL2+ 02:04:37 estoppel, SDSL would be even better? 02:04:39 for uploads 02:04:42 oh wait 02:04:44 ADSL is the worst 02:04:45 haha 02:04:52 um wait 02:04:53 no 02:04:54 eh 02:04:55 dunno 02:05:03 don't know about the 2 02:05:06 I might have it 02:05:08 no idea how to check 02:05:09 VDSL2 seems to be faster. 02:05:12 AnMaster: what speed? 02:05:20 well wait 02:05:25 i just know ADSL and ADSL2+ 02:05:29 anyway 02:05:31 who remembers ISDN 02:05:31 estoppel, 8 mbit down. But ISP provides 24 mbit down with same modem, just costs more 02:05:38 estoppel, I do, but I never used it 02:05:41 AnMaster: then adsl2+ 02:05:43 who remembers 28.8k? 02:05:46 although they might not offer it to you 02:05:51 I used 54kbit I think 02:06:01 american megatrends...? Or ... texas instruments...? or something 02:06:01 modem 02:06:02 black 02:06:06 quite big and heavy 02:06:07 estoppel, that was luxury compared to 28.8k! 02:06:15 i figured out i could turn down the volume one day 02:06:15 estoppel, usrobotics or whatever it was 02:06:19 i never missed those bleeps and whines 02:06:24 I remember that distincly 02:06:33 maybe us robotic 02:06:34 s 02:06:40 estoppel, yeah 02:06:43 anyway 02:07:00 those sounds did have a certain charm 02:07:01 IMO 02:07:34 at least now afterwards 02:07:56 estoppel, that us robotics modem had a volume control on the side though 02:08:06 yeah 02:08:09 it was a half-exposed dia 02:08:10 l 02:08:14 and yes, i love the sounds now 02:08:16 but didn't at the time 02:08:21 half-exposed dial? 02:08:22 huh? 02:08:25 like 02:08:28 instead of a wheel 02:08:29 estoppel, I never found where to enter the modem commands thingy under MacOS 02:08:29 like 02:08:31 ( ) 02:08:33 it was 02:08:37 ( | 02:08:40 where | is the modem's side 02:08:49 birdseye view 02:08:57 estoppel, a full wheel here, but not sticking out from the modem, flat against the surface with some grippy thing on it 02:09:08 it was basically flat, so 02:09:12 yeah it was ridged 02:09:20 I never used ISDN either 02:09:25 but i kinda wanted to. 02:09:32 128 kbit/sec, man. 02:09:44 estoppel, not exactly this, but very similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fax_modem_antigo.jpg 02:09:59 i see no wheel 02:10:02 oh 02:10:02 in design 02:10:02 yes i do 02:10:05 estoppel, on the SIDE 02:10:14 oh. 02:10:16 you can't see it from that view 02:10:17 well yeah 02:10:19 mine too 02:10:59 estoppel, from google image search. this colour scheme: http://www.frontierpc.com/ProductImages/Large/1010110777.jpg 02:11:03 and wheel on opposite side 02:11:14 yeah mine didn't look like that. 02:11:36 estoppel, you can see the wheel inhttp://www.wrca.net/images/USrobotics/US_robotics_USR0268_14_4_Modem.jpg 02:11:39 in * 02:11:46 oh mine was a dial definitely 02:11:49 properly clickable url: http://www.wrca.net/images/USrobotics/US_robotics_USR0268_14_4_Modem.jpg 02:12:02 estoppel, this was a *fax* modem 02:12:12 not that we ever used that 02:13:15 that feature* 02:13:29 faxes ruled. 02:13:39 they're like teleporters but it has to be made of paper 02:13:42 but even so, teleporters 02:13:52 estoppel, we never had a fax, and we never got the fax application working for the modem 02:13:57 it felt like you were REALLY sending that document 02:14:01 plus we didn't want the computer turned on all the time 02:14:08 it would actually appear, the same one, wherever you sent it 02:14:12 that's why faxes were awesome 02:14:15 estoppel, the original cam back? 02:14:22 came* 02:14:32 what happens after is irrelevant 02:14:34 :P 02:14:35 one the fax scanned it 02:14:42 estoppel, also it would fail at colours 02:14:49 don't care 02:14:52 it still felt like it 02:14:53 black and white only 02:14:57 not even grayscale 02:14:59 IT STILL FELT LIKE IT 02:15:04 didn't 02:15:07 yes 02:15:09 it did 02:15:24 only used a fax machine once 02:15:50 estoppel, heard about the black paper in circle thingy? 02:15:55 no 02:16:32 estoppel, take a fax machine, dial up another one and such. then feed it a completely black paper, then take the ends of said paper to each other, so it went in a circle. 02:16:44 haha you're joking 02:16:44 do this when there was no one at home at the other fax machine 02:16:47 that can't possibly work 02:16:58 estoppel, I never did it. but I heard about it being done. might be an urban myth 02:17:07 if only i had a time machine... 02:17:09 check snoopes 02:17:22 estoppel, can't you get fax machines these days? 02:17:29 well sure but... 02:17:33 f 02:17:40 AnMaster: the kind of people who'd do that and report on it would be the phreakers and they, um... aren't very reliable 02:17:45 estoppel, there is a wikipedia article on that prank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_fax 02:18:04 missing citations though 02:18:46 "Description of Black Faxing in court documents -- usdoj.gov" 02:18:46 hm 02:18:54 not sure if that is a reliable source 02:18:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lace_card 02:19:07 AnMaster: it probably worked 02:19:16 that can't possibly work AnMaster: it probably worked 02:19:17 :D 02:19:45 things that can't happen usually do 02:25:53 -!- CESSMASTER has changed nick to CESSMASTER420. 02:30:36 -!- CESSMASTER420 has changed nick to CESSMASTER. 02:34:06 night 02:40:27 Excuse me, #esoteric . 02:40:37 You are excused. 02:40:38 CESSMASTER would like to announce his proclivity towards drugs. 02:40:39 Thank you. 02:41:07 GregorR: as if being called "cessmaster" weren't enough 02:42:01 Huh ... 02:42:09 I honestly have no idea if that's a reference... 02:42:14 Or what it's to if so ... 02:42:33 He likes cess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cess) 02:42:40 He loves taxes soo much. 02:44:00 Who doesn't? 02:45:12 CESSMASTER: Anyway, you can't do that now; it's not 4:20. 02:54:07 -!- upyr[ema` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:06:42 -!- Slereah has set topic: coNsidering the traged yof the international neglEct of the Pringlestinian pEople | I'm don't that stupid who understand obviously | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 03:16:30 -!- estoppel has changed nick to ehird. 06:07:39 -!- Pthingg has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:58:22 Wow: http://www.rainedog.com/d/20090501.html 07:00:12 Out of context, that strip is quite *interesting*. 07:00:36 In context, it's not much different. 07:00:55 The context is that she has a completely innocent reason for being under the same roof. 07:35:54 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 07:56:47 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:50:38 warrigal: girl dogs :( 08:51:57 also, i dont think theres anything out of context there 08:52:09 youve got a boy. 08:52:12 kissing a dog. 08:52:35 ignoring the implication that they sexed, thats pretty "JEFF! OH MY GOD!" 09:01:56 -!- pokarine has joined. 09:18:35 -!- pokarine has left (?). 09:31:28 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:02:15 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:23:58 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:23:59 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 10:29:59 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 10:30:10 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:36:55 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:37:49 -!- ehird has joined. 10:38:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:00:38 -!- oklofok has joined. 11:01:04 lol, disconnected right after i went to sleep 11:01:05 ... 11:01:19 ff probably doesn't know how to continue 11:01:48 yeah, doesn't 11:04:10 -!- M0ny has joined. 11:04:40 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 11:09:04 -!- M0ny has quit (Client Quit). 11:16:09 -!- Shuu has joined. 11:21:04 i guess it's switching time back to ie 11:22:18 lol, ie transfers faster too :D 11:23:09 (ff couldn't even start the transfer) 11:25:57 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 11:37:50 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:38:27 hi oklofok 12:41:34 hiers 12:42:13 46 seconds left 12:42:27 brb. 12:42:36 be back in 46 seconds? 12:42:55 3 12:42:55 2 12:42:56 1 12:42:57 yay 12:45:39 backt 12:45:40 backy 12:48:09 22:58:22 Wow: http://www.rainedog.com/d/20090501.html 12:48:12 Fucking furries; furries fucking. 12:50:45 "Because saying Twitter sucks strikes me as kind of like saying haiku sucks?" // srsly? 12:52:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:52:37 hi oklofok. 12:52:40 oklopol rather. 12:52:44 ehird: hi. 12:52:52 is the file playableability. 12:52:58 the very concept itself 12:53:01 for some reason, my computer crashed even though i had vlc on fullscreen. 12:53:10 and the file played fine 12:53:18 you did not however! 12:53:24 but i enjoyed it anyway 12:55:25 can't make out all you say at the end 12:55:28 i did tell you i was terrible at it 12:55:31 also, i don't even remember 12:55:34 i was just mumbling 12:55:46 i think at the end i commented on how just walking was making it spew crap 12:56:10 i thought you said "you really shouldn't buy one of these things" or something :D 12:56:56 is yours linear? 12:56:58 You picked that thought right out of his head. 12:57:26 from some of the introductory vids i've gotten the impression some are linear, some are not 12:58:40 i think i've mostly mastered aerial fingering already, some of the jumps are still somewhat jittery 12:59:45 -!- Judofyr has changed nick to Judofyr2. 12:59:47 oklopol: linear? 12:59:51 because while the thumb and the wrist are the stable part, the rest are the part that makes the sound in the next octave, making it hard to get a fast jump right 13:00:03 i don't get you 13:00:14 -!- Judofyr2 has changed nick to Judofyr3. 13:00:24 -!- Judofyr3 has changed nick to Judofyr. 13:00:30 ehird: basically one centimeter = some interval 13:00:37 instead of some amt of hertz 13:00:51 oklopol: you mean, like, it's non-continuous? 13:00:59 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 40, ... 13:01:01 sorta thing? 13:01:05 i'm just assuming that's what's meant, i can't estimate thhat from the vids. 13:01:12 err 13:01:15 no not at all 13:01:29 hmm 13:01:37 oklopol: what do you mean then 13:01:40 wait till python starts up 13:01:58 your computer is slow :D 13:04:09 my intuition says something like 13:04:09 >>> [440*2**(float(i)/12) for i in xrange(12)] 13:04:09 [440.0, 466.16376151808993, 493.88330125612413, 523.25113060119725, 554.36526195374415, 587.32953583481515, 622.25396744416184, 659.25511382573984, 698.45646286600777, 739.9888454232688, 783.99087196349853, 830.60939515989025] 13:04:17 for linear 13:04:38 no idea what non linear is, stuff like 13:04:39 >>> [440+440*(float(i)/12) for i in xrange(12)] 13:04:39 [440.0, 476.66666666666669, 513.33333333333337, 550.0, 586.66666666666663, 623.33333333333337, 660.0, 696.66666666666674, 733.33333333333326, 770.0, 806.66666666666674, 843.33333333333326] 13:05:26 iterating 12 steps of some length 13:06:32 for the linear one, you'd get some constant interval of change for a constant rise in centimeters, but there's a limit for how high you can go 13:06:42 i think all are linear 13:06:50 non linear could be like how guitars do it, in which case you can get infinitely high 13:07:04 of course probably not the case in reality, but mathematically speaking 13:07:10 right 13:07:10 no, there's definitely a limit as you touch the antenna 13:07:12 easy to test 13:07:25 oklopol: big jumps just consist of immediately cutting the volume, jumping to the next note and going back, i think 13:07:42 huh? 13:08:00 that's just avoiding the glissando. 13:08:20 oklopol: well you stand so that with your hands to your side there's no tone 13:08:28 and with your hand stretched out it touches the pitch antenna 13:08:39 so... it's not exactly hard to do big jumps 13:09:18 i don't see your point, did i say it's hard to do big jumps? 13:09:23 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:09:41 12:59 oklopol: because while the thumb and the wrist are the stable part, the rest are the part that makes the sound in the next octave, making it hard to get a fast jump right 13:09:43 ok 13:09:47 that isn't related to linearness then 13:10:15 linearness is related to how your aerial fingering needs to change depending on where your stable part is located 13:10:34 and that was about getting the fingering right 13:10:43 mm 13:10:52 oklopol: are you actually playing with a nonexistent theremin? xD 13:11:03 is that surprising? 13:11:04 oklopol: there are programs i think that use a webcam to make a virtual theremin 13:11:13 it's not exactly hard to mentally divide the air into notes 13:11:21 my webcam is broken 13:11:33 oklopol: there's no division, just so you know 13:11:43 it's a smooth scale of hz i'm pretty sure 13:11:55 oklopol: btw at points in that video i fiddle with the knobs 13:11:57 i often play the piano without sound, why not a theremin 13:12:07 just in case you're misinterpreting me playing slightly different afterwards or sth 13:12:13 yeah i know it's smooth, lol 13:12:24 you talk like i'm not an expert at it. 13:12:48 oklopol: i generally work on the assumption that you're not a world expert in everything :D 13:12:50 yarr i thought you were 13:12:57 how dare you 13:13:01 :< 13:13:07 i wish i had like meat or something, i'm hungry 13:13:18 oklopol: when i just did one and it went weeeeeeeeearuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh that was the pitch one, in case you're retarded and didn't know that 13:13:29 leftmost on the video would be my rightmost which was brightness 13:13:33 and the remaining one's waveform i think 13:13:37 it's 13:13:40 pitch, waveform, brightness 13:13:47 okay that i did not know 13:13:53 i mean 13:14:07 not the retarded part, i knew it was the pitch :P 13:14:10 i don't know what the latter two actually -do- 13:14:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:14:36 oklopol: btw my £200 figure is inaccurate because i got it off ebay (albeit new) 13:14:45 also it was more like £250 13:14:52 (at least i think it was new, too long ago to remember) 13:15:46 i don't really care about anything except pitch 13:16:02 so i'll just call some of my hifi friends to make it sound nice 13:16:04 i hate how he actually gets the words right. 13:16:17 oerjan: wat 13:16:18 i _did_ use google translate in case it bothers you :D 13:16:30 oklopol: they do markedly change the sound though 13:16:30 :P 13:16:39 i mean, some sounds will be hard to get without twiddlin' them 13:16:49 but you do have a history of getting some of the stuff right no one else does 13:16:56 oklopol: but you're meant to use only one pitch setting 13:17:07 like the translation of the part you did not translate in your quit msg. 13:17:09 you have to stand the right distance and make it so that you get either a very low tone or silence when your hands are by your side 13:17:42 i think you're supposed to set the pitch so that aerial fingering lets you get one full octave 13:18:25 but hey what do i know i'm not a world expert in everything 13:18:27 i think that's what doing that does 13:18:32 oklopol: i'm quoting the manual from the holy moog 13:18:33 so there 13:18:37 :P 13:18:44 yarr 13:18:44 holy moog :D 13:18:56 was that a typo? 13:21:09 ehird: if you're unlazy enough to google for a webcam theremin at some point, do tell. i'm not actually sure whether it's the webcam that's broken or the one program i had for it. 13:21:20 oklopol: not a typo no 13:21:29 (if it's the program, the complete crashing of the computer is somewhat impressive) 13:21:34 oklopol: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~squires/vt/ 13:21:50 http://www.instructables.com/community/The-Virtual-Theremin/ 13:21:59 nice 13:22:36 oklopol: are you using a laptop? there's a tool from Synaptics that uses the touchpad to do it :D 13:22:44 [[if you have a Synaptics touchpad in your laptop (and windows) you can get a free theremin here: 13:22:44 http://www.synaptics.com/support/utili.cfm 13:22:46 the x& y axes control the pitch & tremelo, while the pressure on the pad controls the volume. 13:22:48 (don't forget to staccato tap all over the pad to make R2D2 noises)]] 13:22:50 might not be a synaptics touchpad ofc 13:22:52 aw 13:22:54 it's 404 13:23:57 that's hardly a theremin 13:24:25 it's the lack of touch that makes it a theremin 13:24:48 where's oerjan when you need him <-- wat 13:25:10 i've seen and played surfaces and strings mapped to smooth scales before 13:25:22 just not air 13:25:40 oerjan: what's a reasonable linear representation of capital sigma/pi notation (with unicode) 13:25:50 i later did "(a {{SIGMA}} b) c" is: 13:25:52 a 13:25:54 SIGMA c 13:25:55 b 13:25:55 oops 13:26:12 you're mathematician, you should know what the operations feel like. QED 13:26:31 you usually use ellipses, if i understand the q 13:26:42 oklopol: like what? 13:27:35 basically you do c(with a substituted for iteration var) + c(same for a+1) + ... + c(with b for it) 13:27:37 umm 13:27:40 except they were reversed 13:27:43 \sum_{a}^{b} c is the TeX 13:27:57 oklopol: yeah that's not what i was asking. 13:28:01 lemme explain 13:28:07 oerjan: yes, but that's not what it feels like 13:28:12 it feels like the series 13:28:16 summed 13:28:46 i'll probably go offline now, because the webcam will crash my computer 13:29:41 "sum_{a to b} c" is what I've been writing when I've wanted to talk about a sum in a single-line ascii-only context. It's a bit TeX-inspired, but not quite. And not very pretty either. 13:29:45 oklopol: oerjan: n! = ??? ∀n ∈ ℕ 13:30:06 i don't see those characters right 13:30:08 ??? = (n Π k=1) k 13:30:09 wsa what I tried 13:30:14 oklopol: first three are question marks 13:30:19 then upside down A 13:30:22 then E, element 13:30:25 then blackboard N 13:30:29 in the ??? = part, it's pi 13:30:30 anyway 13:30:34 the issue is that, 13:30:40 n Π k=1 k 13:30:45 \product_1^n, i think 13:30:46 is ambiguous wrt k=1 and the k 13:30:49 but 13:30:51 er 13:30:51 (n Π k=1) k 13:30:55 implies some sort of currying to my mind 13:31:00 \product_{k=1}^n k, i think 13:31:08 so i'm not sure the most readable & most accurate way to represent it 13:31:11 Just write the tex, everyone's got a built-in TeX renderizer in their brains. 13:31:16 oerjan: that's nothing close to the corresponding mathematical notation 13:31:18 fizzie: " " 13:31:37 correction 13:31:37 It overrides the visual input and embeds the result there. 13:31:38 fizzie: 〃 13:31:50 anyway i hate writing tex. 13:32:15 -!- ehird has set topic: 〃 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 13:32:28 ehird: you need {} around unless it's a single character, or thereabouts 13:32:44 (RIP Sun) 13:32:49 oerjan: even so 13:32:59 n Π {k=1} k 13:33:05 is still hard to distinguish in a moment imo 13:34:40 Why is that even in that "end ∏ start" order? 13:34:58 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/e/8/0e85eaace43199521530c584b3350444.png 13:35:04 my brain instinctively orders the n first. 13:35:13 if yours doesn't it's weird 13:35:34 I write TeX sums always \sum_{k=1}^n style, since the progression is "start from here, end up here". 13:35:40 mine certainly doesn't 13:35:40 fizzie: i'm kind of tempted to make $$this render in tex$$ 13:35:44 hm wait 13:35:49 what's the Proper symbolism for that 13:37:22 A simplified "∏{k=1 → n} k" could work; you rarely need an → in the start/end conditions, and the way there's no space after ∏ makes the {} part look like it's closely related to the ∏. But this is a subjective onion. 13:37:48 yeah that's ugly. now what's the tex symbolism for mathematics stuff 13:37:57 and how do i get you all to surround your tex with it on IRC. 13:38:40 For inline math, LaTeX is just $foo$. And for displayed equations, it's that \[ bar \]. That's the LaTeX way, though, not the pure-TeX thing. 13:38:41 $ ... $ for inline stuff 13:38:57 what's the pure tex? 13:39:07 oerjan: ugh but $ to $ is so ambiguous 13:39:12 do you ever put spaces around them? 13:39:13 well 13:39:20 "I'll give you $100 if you name a basic variable dick$." 13:39:21 not inside 13:39:25 usually 13:39:30 so it's still ambiguous 13:39:36 I guess I could require whitespace around it but 13:39:38 "I'll give you $100 if you name a basic variable dick$" 13:39:41 would fulfill it 13:39:41 I think pure TeX might've been $ ... $ too for inline, and the double-dollar for display mode. 13:40:05 ehird: it's not ambiguous in TeX 13:40:19 i'm not interpreting full irc lines as tex, oerjan :) 13:40:31 Incidentally, I think the ∏ I used there is different from Π you had. The first one is the special "n-ary product" character, while the latter might be just uppercase pi from the Greek slot. 13:40:59 very true 13:41:30 oerjan: fizzie: so, no delimiter suggestions then :D 13:42:40 Not really, no. Though you could use $...$ with suitable guesstimate-heuristics based on the content, if you want to be "TeX-compatible" and yet avoid that "any two dollar signs" thing. 13:42:46 nah 13:43:41 fizzie: hmm 13:43:52 any tex math worth its salt will include \, won't it 13:44:12 That's very likely. 13:44:25 okie dokie 13:44:43 now i have to figure out tex's awful batch mode command line tools and how to turn an expression into a png :D 13:44:48 $3$ // I just wanted this rendered in mathfont :P 13:45:01 GregorR: Tough shit :P 13:45:08 Do $3\nop$ or something 13:45:24 $2^3$ people in this channel think that's too limited :P 13:45:50 GregorR: How can I possibly understand you without a superscript :P 13:46:01 YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND 13:46:05 Clearly I just said "1" 13:46:08 Since 2 xor 3 is 1 13:46:21 There are TeX plugins for every wiki software in existence, you could just steal/"borrow" someone else's code. They all render to small png pictures. 13:46:21 * oerjan swats GregorR -----### 13:46:40 TeX ^ is _not_ xor! 13:46:54 oerjan: Ah, but it wasn't TeX, since there wasn't a \ in there. 13:46:55 Indeed 13:47:08 fizzie: i'm just not sure how they do it :P 13:47:15 * oerjan screams 13:47:27 the horror! 13:47:37 xD 13:47:42 it's okay, he didn't say anything 13:47:48 he tried to add "3$" to 2 dollars 13:47:50 what's 3$? 13:48:11 FORTE string variable, obviously 13:48:15 There's a "texvc" script in the MediaWiki stuff which does the work. It's written in OCaml of all things. :p 13:49:16 http://gizmodo.com/5315766/suspiciously-prescient-man-files-patent-for-ipod+like-device-in-1979 // wow 13:49:32 fizzie: wmf have a ton of ocaml infrastructure 13:49:57 Windows metafile?-) 13:50:11 windows media framework, duh 13:50:16 (wikimedia foundation)-: 13:50:21 Parasitic smilies. 14:00:07 "I told Steve that I suspected that Microsoft was going to clone the Mac, but he wasn't that worried because he didn't think they were capable of doing a decent implementation, even with the Mac as an example." 14:03:10 "It didn't even have overlapping windows, preferring a simpler technique called "tiling"." 14:03:11 Ohh, snap! 14:03:25 Good ol' Windows 1 14:03:39 GregorR: I was thinking of tiling window managers :) 14:04:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiKwErpPwMs 14:05:15 Whatever it is, it isn't as good as the video where Ballmer yells about Windows being $99, or the crack-filled 10 minute spy advert. 14:06:47 It's not an advert ... per se? It's a floppy they distributed to encourage people to use Windows. It's a slideshow of "features" 14:06:50 It even has a clock! 14:07:25 If it starts playing, I'll watch. 14:10:03 `date 14:10:03 Fri Jul 17 13:10:03 UTC 2009 14:10:10 There's reversi, though. And it stayed there up to 3.0, but was dropped from 3.1. :/ 14:11:05 it plays now, yay. 14:11:30 The Youtube clip seems to advertise the black-and-white version; something like 1.02 or 1.04 added colors. 14:11:33 I gotta admit that Windows 1.0 _was_ pretty cool. 14:11:51 Fitting the existing, hardware-poking DOS applications into a multitasking & windowing system. 14:13:11 Not too well, though. And DESQView did it earlier. 14:13:59 True, but it's not exactly easy to make applications that mess with all your hardware directly play together nicely. 14:16:54 Besides, getting Windows 1 for the classroom PC made it trivial for everyone to access the directory with the alt-255 invisible character in the name, where the larry 1 copy had successfully been hiding, available only for those who were "in" on the secret. 14:17:31 Hahahaha 14:17:52 Since the "MS-DOS Executive" let you just point-and-click. :/ 14:18:14 ...and forevermore, fizzie eschewed graphical interfaces in favour of the more arcane ways. 14:18:16 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 14:21:03 * oerjan wonders why US radio stations abbreviations seem to begin with "K"... 14:22:20 They don't all, do they? 14:22:38 Or maybe "K" means "United Kstates?" 14:22:41 *"? 14:22:56 oh found something 14:23:01 oerjan: 14:23:04 they dont all do that 14:23:08 east coast is W 14:23:10 west coast is K 14:23:31 mm 14:23:36 augur: *keast 14:23:40 that's what i found. no explanation for the letters, though... 14:23:40 er wait 14:23:43 it should be 14:23:44 Weast 14:23:46 and Kwest 14:23:48 west coast is W 14:23:52 keast coast in K 14:23:55 *is 14:23:57 nope. 14:23:59 :P 14:24:00 EAST coast is W 14:24:02 i know 14:24:03 West coast is K 14:24:04 i meant 14:24:04 :P 14:24:05 for my joke to work 14:24:18 http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/kwtrivia.htm has the story. 14:24:29 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:24:48 Wait. The link promised for it to have the story. 14:24:50 Where is it, though. 14:24:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_sign#North_America 14:24:52 "(Initially ship stations were the reverse, with W assignments in the west, and K in the east)" 14:24:55 SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS ME 14:25:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_callsign#K_and_W 14:25:48 I wonder why people make such complex federated single-sign-on systems 14:26:00 what? 14:26:17 augur: totally unrelated to the conversation at hand you must realise 14:26:22 oh ok 14:26:31 whats a single sign on system? 14:26:49 like Shibboleth. a university or company or whatever wants to provide a bunch of services to people 14:26:53 but they have a ton of unrelated systems 14:26:59 and want you to only have to sign in once 14:27:08 for non-web stuff too 14:27:09 but 14:27:13 all the solutions are so complex 14:27:32 why not just use https or something and do https://authserver/authkey/${key_provided_by_client}? Use the IP or something 14:27:44 i can't understand how it's a nontrivial problem 14:27:45 oh i see 14:27:47 juts random thought 14:27:49 *just 14:28:56 It still doesn't really explain why exactly K and W. "The call letters assigned to the United States are all combinations (676) beginning with the letter N and all (676) beginning with the letter W, and all combinations (598) from KDA to KZZ, inclusive. (NOTE: The assignment of W and K to the United States appears to have been completely arbitrary--the letters have no particular significance. N, however, had been commonly used by the U.S. Navy since November, 14:28:56 1909)." 14:30:31 mhm 14:30:52 well, that's what they _want_ us to think 14:31:30 dun dun 14:32:42 fizzie: isn't using K and W using 5 bits for 1? :D 14:33:14 ehird 14:33:23 well N too I guess 14:33:29 so 1.5 bits 14:33:33 whats your opinion of the Mancunian accent? 14:33:53 actually ~1.5849 according to \bot 14:34:04 augur: i don't have many accents assigned to names 14:34:09 but i probably find it annoying. 14:34:19 the accent of people from Manchester. :P 14:34:32 augur: my opinion is: what the heck is the Mancunian accent? 14:34:37 ^^^ 14:35:08 Er, it's an international thing. It has to not-conflict with other places, which have other combinations assigned to them. 14:35:27 augur: yah i don't actually know what they sound like i don't associate people with places. 14:35:29 "The United Kingdom uses G, M, VS, ZB–ZJ, ZN–ZO, ZQ, and 2." 14:35:36 fizzie: Oh. 14:35:40 .......booooooring. 14:35:59 * oerjan _did_ sort of know LA was norway, but only because of a norwegian comedy sketch... 14:36:12 Hey, that page provides one hypothesis: 14:36:13 "The United States was represented by the military at the 1927 conference, which is why it received (or, in some cases, retained) A (for Army) and N (for Navy). The W and K for civilian stations followed as the simple addition of a dash to the Morse code letters A and N." 14:36:16 * oerjan _did_ sort of know LA was norway, but only because of a norwegian comedy sketch... 14:36:16 Uhh 14:36:19 Los Angeles, Norway :) 14:36:38 GregorR: radio prefix 14:36:56 probably only used by radio amateurs, though 14:37:34 I know OH is Finland, because one sees that painted on airplanes. (Although apparently according to the table Finland has the OF-OJ range. And Norway has LA-LN) 14:38:13 since that was what the sketch was about, and i've never heard it about any other kind of station... 14:38:24 (in norway) 14:40:17 Yes, "normal" radio stations don't use the codes here either. Although I guess they might still be allocated one, technically speaking. 14:47:19 -!- MizardX has quit ("brb"). 14:48:17 http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jul-16.html ← Yow. 14:48:26 Sweet. 14:50:10 Huh. 14:50:35 "LLVM is not able to support some of the features that Mono needs, so in those cases the JIT compiler will still fall back to Mono's JIT engine (methods that contain try/catch clauses or methods that do interface calls). " 14:50:43 I think LLVM can do try/catch. 14:51:14 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:51:15 ah, they just can't do it "at the moment" 14:51:15 :P 14:51:17 from the comments 14:51:33 Wow. 14:51:37 John Harrop commented positively. 14:51:42 Harrop. Praising Mono. What the fuck. 14:51:49 ...probably an impersonator. 14:51:59 "You should do a Mono port of android. It must be fairly easy to translate Java to C# given how similar they are." 14:52:01 Lolwat 14:52:07 hey hey many people get softer with age 14:54:20 wtf xkcd 14:54:56 "Aha! yet more Elaborate intellectual justifications from the weak beta males..." 14:54:59 Am I really reading this on Less Wrong? 14:56:24 are you implying it's not true? 14:57:45 oerjan: I wasn't talking about xkcd if you thought so; but I'm incredibly surprised that there's an idiotic "ALPHA MALE HURR" person criticizing people for justifying things… intellectually… on a community about rationalism. 14:57:52 http://www.explosm.net/comics/1736/ Sooooooooooooooooo offensive 14:58:17 (the post triggering the thread was about how all the neeeeeeeeeeeeeeerds here are beta males who won't take action and be total assholes to women so that they can have sex with attractive people.) 14:58:20 (I'm quoting almost directly.) 14:58:54 http://lesswrong.com/lw/12w/absolute_denial_for_atheists/xg9?context=1#xg9 15:00:34 ehird: LLVM doesn't support EH on Windows. 15:00:42 Eh? EH? 15:00:46 Exception handling. 15:00:50 Weird. 15:01:02 That's no reason to disable it for all platforms, tohugh. 15:01:08 SEH is fairly undocumented and the devs don't use Windows. 15:01:18 There's little interest in implementing it. 15:02:32 That's no reason to disable it for all platforms, tohugh. 15:04:08 That's no reason to disable it for all platforms, tohugh. 15:04:18 [[Take-away from this comic: The new meme of proposing a comically horrible and violent plan, and then adding, "Like men once did."]] — like men once did. 15:04:22 GregorR: To hugh. 15:05:19 that is a new meme? 15:06:09 Everything Munroe says is a meme and utter comedic & inspirational genius to the people on the xkcd forum 15:06:13 s/$/./ 15:07:11 Hip language + LLVM seems to be a popular combination these days. 15:07:20 I wonder when we'll get Erlang + LLVM. Or Haskell + LLVM. 15:08:36 We already have Haskell + LLVM. 15:08:46 (Google it, can't remember where.) 15:09:12 http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=haskell++llvm&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 ;; the only relevant thing seems to be that stc/ehc thing 15:09:36 and it appears to be vaporware/presentationware: http://www.cs.uu.nl/wiki/bin/view/Stc/CompilingHaskellToLLVM 15:11:14 Right, http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/llvm was only bindings 15:16:49 GregorR: hb 15:17:47 23 is such a lame birthday :P 15:23:14 oh? happy birthday! 15:23:31 i'd say it's a prime age 15:23:39 Calling your birthday lame is a lame way of drawing attention to it 15:23:46 Deewiant: no, i did that. 15:23:51 by saying hb. 15:24:07 Speak English, dammit. 15:24:16 no 15:24:38 I assumed "hb" = "happy birthday" 15:24:41 y? hb z fn. 15:24:42 Since it is in fact my birthday. 15:25:33 yah 15:25:38 seen on sine :P 15:32:11 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 15:32:11 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:39:25 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:43:51 http://www.flickr.com/photos/72186321@N00/3727447769/sizes/o/ 15:48:28 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:48:59 -!- Judofyr has joined. 15:49:41 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 15:53:14 13:31 oerjan: \product_{k=1}^n k, i think 15:53:15 nope 15:53:30 that produces 15:53:35 --n 15:53:38 | |k=1 15:54:26 hm wait 15:54:30 blame jsmath's lab tool 15:55:22 n! = \prod_{k=1}^n k \qquad \forall n \in \mathbb{N}\! 15:55:34 ehird, btw you said something about me having a lot of edits on MB a few days ago iirc? 15:55:39 yes 15:55:48 ehird, I'm at 233 in total now 15:56:00 on one hand, they must love you 15:56:05 on the other, you're fucking nuts. 15:56:06 143 open ones, two accepted 83 auto edits 15:56:11 ehird, heh :) 15:56:25 ehird, AND I HAVE STILL OVER 30 classical CDs to add! 15:56:30 (when I have time) 15:56:30 the horror 15:56:44 ehird, currently I'm adding roughly four per day 15:57:17 What are you doing, tagging them by hand? 15:57:25 pikhq: into musicbrainz, yes. 15:57:34 Oh, okay then. 15:57:37 he listens to über obscure classical without any entries :-P 15:57:59 and doing lots of other edits of course, such as fixing incorrect info in cds that are in there. (The tracks with yellow bg in http://musicbrainz.org/release/3c969e3d-1fdc-4186-90fc-73eb0e70708e.html were edited by me. Note that listing shows the state *before* the edits, since they are still open) 15:58:49 isn't (disc 1) in the title forbidden? 15:58:50 or wait 15:58:52 i forget the policy 15:59:06 ehird, actually most of the ~30 cds left to add are compilations trying to make classical music popular. You know... stuff like "The best of Vivaldi" and such. 15:59:17 AnMaster: has that ever worked though? exactly! 15:59:18 Often lacking a detailed info like Opus numbers and such 15:59:51 i think i know of one instance where any kind of traditional music was made popular through an album. 16:00:11 ehird, no idea. But I met quite a few people who didn't know of Grieg or "In the hall of the Mountain King", but when they heard it they went "Oh that one, used in " and such 16:00:18 well yeah 16:00:39 (The example I was thinking of is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buena_Vista_Social_Club_(album)) 16:00:40 so I suspect a lot of people listen to more classical than they think they do 16:00:44 in the form of sound tracks 16:00:52 people don't actively listen to soundtracks though 16:00:57 you're not meant to notice them 16:01:11 ehird, depends actually... 16:02:14 ehird, I assume you have seen Star Wars? Do you remember the music from (in the 5th movie) when the Empire attacked that rebel base on the ice planet? 16:02:30 i have idly seen some star wars movies occasionally. 16:02:34 some sort of march. Very noticable. 16:02:41 no. i don't recall at all 16:02:57 ehird, not the scene even? 16:03:04 nope. 16:03:38 ehird, huge green walking machines? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battlehothesb.JPG 16:03:42 Do you remember the Emperial March? 16:03:55 Emperial is my new favourite word. 16:03:58 * GregorR listens to Josef Suk's Fantastic Scherzo 16:03:58 I wurve this almost too much. 16:03:59 It's empire + imperial! 16:04:00 pikhq, that is the one they play there iirc? 16:04:06 s/Emperial/Imperial/ 16:04:11 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:04:17 heh, I mentally corrected it without noticing 16:04:17 AnMaster: Believe so. 16:04:32 But the theme comes up quite often; it's a bit of a leitmotif. ;) 16:05:50 the point I was trying to make was that " you're not meant to notice [movie soundtracks]" isn't always true. Another example: The main music "signature" in the India Jones movies. 16:06:04 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 16:06:33 true. 16:06:33 still. 16:06:50 I at least listen to soundtracks... 16:07:00 i'm talking about during the movie 16:07:01 pikhq, yes, you are usually meant to notice the leitmotifs of movies. 16:07:03 Including video game soundtracks. 16:07:29 I actually have a abridged version of the complete star wars soundtracks on CD... Somewhere 16:07:42 ehird: Then they do a crappy job by having leitmotifs. 16:07:45 (as in, not everything, just the more popular stuff) 16:07:51 Believe me, they're noticable. ;) 16:08:19 however, when I listened to the track "Yoda's theme" (iirc) it wasn't familiar. Because it was one of the fainter ones you weren't meant to notice... 16:08:23 apart from leitmotifs okay?! 16:08:35 ehird, in that case star wars has two leitmotifs... 16:08:41 the Empire one and the Rebel one 16:08:49 God, shut up, all of you :P 16:09:03 Þou. 16:09:12 pikhq, "Pou"? 16:09:28 AnMaster: I thought you had a φilter. 16:09:38 Anyway, φi is the only acceptable letter replacement. It's so pretty. 16:09:53 at the end of movie 6 the Rebel leitmotif is *VERY* noticable. Well a variation on it I guess. A happier "triumphal" variant than heard earlier. 16:09:55 Þ = Th. Þ /= P 16:10:01 (Note: I preφer the closed version; not the one that looks like the uppercase one.) 16:10:12 (If your φont has it closed, get a new φont.) 16:10:19 ehird, forgot to put the filter script on autoload in the bouncer 16:10:23 fixed it now 16:10:47 ÞOU FAIL'ST. 16:11:02 Thou φails. 16:11:22 ehird, please try that again? 16:11:25 Þou haſt too much Greek. 16:11:34 AnMaster: Thou ɸails. 16:11:40 um that is a different one 16:11:50 anyway what is φ? It is missing from my filter 16:11:52 No it isn't. 16:12:04 ɸ and φ are missing 16:12:10 and one is upper case 16:12:12 Those are the same character. 16:12:17 They are both lowercase. 16:12:18 It's all Greek to me. 16:12:33 pikhq, do they have any sensible meaning in that text? 16:12:44 or just ehird messing around 16:12:51 Yes, they do. 16:13:20 "Thou _ails." 16:13:24 Fill in the blank 16:13:30 It isn't THAT hard 16:13:31 FireFly, tails? nails? 16:13:39 fails? 16:13:41 I 'dfill the blank with a blank 16:13:41 rails? 16:13:42 AnMaſter: I believe þat þou miſunderſtood the ɸraſe “It's all Greek to me”. 16:14:07 AnMaster: I believe that thou misunderstood the ɸrase “It's all Greek to me”. <-- you are using it now. No way around providing a consistent mapping for it! 16:14:31 I intentionally misused it! HAH! 16:14:38 Indeed. 16:14:51 AnMaster's next filtering trick will be to change all of my opinions to his. 16:15:27 ehird, that would require understanding what the text meant, thus requiring a strong AI~ ;P 16:15:39 I'm not sure it requires intelligence. 16:15:44 You seem to partly understand me sometimes. 16:15:50 OH! SNAP! 16:15:52 ehird, to parse what you say? Probably not 16:16:05 Excuse me, that was a burn for you, not me. 16:16:12 φnyway. 16:16:35 anyway... you could just use a lookup table + a bit of fuzzy matching. Would need maybe 50-60 entries? 16:16:52 yours could be a φne liner. 16:17:46 ehird, if you don't use φ consistently it seems completely pointless. 16:18:14 I am usiφ it consistently; maybe you just caφt make out what sound it represents. 16:18:38 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:18:40 lets see what it replaces: a, o, g (during the last few lines) 16:18:52 ϕ and φ are both lowercase-phi, generated by \phi and \varphi in LaTeX, respectively. 16:19:11 -!- coppro has joined. 16:19:16 "anyway" and "one". Same sound? Err? 16:19:16 AnMaster: You assume that phonology is directly related to spelling. 16:19:22 ehird, dialect? 16:19:25 You are wroφ. 16:21:52 ehird, is /wʌn/ and /ˈɛniweɪ/ same sound? 16:22:13 I mean, beginning with same even 16:22:26 This really isφt difficult. 16:22:27 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one#Pronunciation http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anyway#Pronunciation 16:22:43 sure there are several for "one", but none seems to match 16:22:58 ehird, is that "isn't" or? 16:23:05 lets see... /ɪzɨnt/ 16:23:07 What about it? 16:23:21 ehird, /n/ ? 16:23:32 Hmm, "φnyway" was a typo. 16:23:42 It should have been "aφyway" 16:23:45 And "φne"? 16:24:09 fizzie, must have been a typo too then. 16:24:28 Indeed; "φe". 16:25:21 ehird, that removes the /wʌ/ ? 16:25:25 so now it is /nn/ ? 16:25:28 No. 16:26:58 ehird, would you replace "on" with φn then? 16:27:02 no 16:27:44 ehird, I can't see how this makes sense for /wʌn/ being represented as "φe" assuming φ really is /n/ 16:27:52 φφφφ φφ φφφφφφ. 16:28:27 GregorR: And now I know the meaning of Life. 16:28:38 Glider guns? 16:28:48 Unless you try to argue that the orders of the sounds and their roughly corresponding letters are in reverse order 16:29:10 which, knowing English, isn't *entirely* impossible 16:30:06 (knowing is not a good word here, the meaning I was trying to use it in doesn't work in there, does it?) 16:36:27 it works 16:39:48 In fact, it's a common idiom. 16:44:15 o 16:45:53 -!- Pthing has joined. 16:58:56 EMACS WITH A RESOUNDING SNAKE 16:59:50 sssssssssssss 16:59:56 M-sssssssssssssssssssssssss 17:05:06 Esssssssssssssssssscape-meta-alt-control-ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshift 17:05:52 Six megabytesssssssssssssssss and conssssssssstantly sssssssssswapping 17:05:53 Er. 17:05:54 Eight. 17:07:48 * ehird attempts to learn (La)TeX by writing lots of little expressions in it. 17:07:50 \prod_{k=n}^m x = x_n \times x_{n+1} \times \ldots \times x_{m-1} \times x_m 17:10:17 pikhq, yes I know that "knowing x, blah blah" is. but "knowing English" seemed to have a different meaning there. 17:10:24 to me 17:10:43 which might imply I'm not "knowing English" that well ;P 17:11:01 brb 17:11:08 AnMaster: No, it has the same meaning in this context. 17:21:16 Yay, \[\prod_{k=n}^m x = x_n \times x_{n+1} \times \ldots \times x_{m-1} \times x_m\] typesets properly. 17:21:53 Well of course it does. It's TeX -- where correct typesetting is the norm. 17:21:54 ;) 17:22:21 pikhq: I mean, I wrote it correctly. 17:23:27 Whoo. 17:24:14 pikhq: Also, default TeX is kind of crap for not doing Unicode and the like. 17:24:24 If you replaced TeX with XeTeX, I'd agree. 17:34:26 Meanwhile, http://filebin.ca/gyhqza/sums-and-products.pdf 17:35:02 XeTeX is an implementation of the TeX language. 17:35:04 ;) 17:37:03 but you can easily make a TeX implementation that looks really ugly 17:37:11 Incidentally, I think that should be $\sum_{k=n}^m x_k$ instead of just $x$ there. 17:37:26 Ah. 17:37:27 So it should be. 17:38:25 http://filebin.ca/vkuvr/sums-and-products.pdf 17:39:09 Sums and products are made of sugar and spice and everything nice. 17:39:22 Verily. 17:39:31 Someone should make a TeX expression _evaluator_. :-) 17:40:11 That's called Mathematica; it can ToExpression["input", TeXForm]. 17:40:18 augur: well, as I kind of said, the context implies that they didn't. 17:40:29 fizzie: I don't think it can evaluate my sum expression. 17:40:42 Admittedly, it's not very semantic. 17:41:07 ehird: You could write it in TeX. 17:41:12 Eek. 17:41:23 TeX *is* Turing-complete. 17:41:23 ToExpression::esntx: Could not parse \sum_{k=n}^m x_k=x_n+x_{n+1}+ \ldots+x_{m-1}+x_m as Mathematica input. 17:41:36 So, you guys are using single letters for digraφs again. 17:42:03 May I interest you in an eþ? 17:42:15 It looks like ðis, or Ðis in uppercase. 17:42:18 Þou and þy þorn. 17:42:38 Oh, and þy eþ. 17:42:45 I'm totally pronouncing ðose "you" and, um, "yy". 17:43:05 I'm going to write a plugin φor φi replacement. 17:43:14 Whereby "plugin" I mean "patch to my IRC client". 17:43:34 Well now, that wasn't a very useful Mathematica session: http://pastebin.com/m147cd2e5 17:43:46 Correct -- þ was written as "y" by early Enliſh typeſetters. ;) 17:44:10 fizzie: :-D 17:44:19 pikhq: Mark Twain loves them. 17:44:36 ehird: ? 17:44:40 Is ðere a capital ſ? 17:44:46 pikhq: Ingliy. 17:44:49 Warrigal: No. 17:44:51 Warrigal: Yes; "S". 17:47:10 * Warrigal sets `f to render as ſ. 17:47:32 * pikhq prefers Compose f s 17:47:44 Ðis is madneſs! 17:48:10 dude, ðis is ſparta. 17:48:27 Test. Fuck. 17:48:34 Test. Fuck. 17:48:37 Hmm. 17:48:45 oh. 17:52:23 Indeed, ðis is madneß. 17:53:43 ¡ssəupɐɯ 17:54:15 Fuck. 17:54:17 Darn. 17:54:19 fuck 17:54:21 Darn. 17:54:42 Having some trouble getting the fuck-mobile started? 17:54:47 Fuck you. 17:54:49 Darn. 17:55:03 Fuck-fuck-fuck darn. 17:55:29 fuck 17:56:03 84en it seems to me like we should 102uck all 116e bru115els sprouts. 17:56:05 Darn. 17:56:11 09:56:03 84en it seems to me like we should 102uck all 116e bru115els sprouts. 17:56:14 Lol wat. 17:57:34 ohh 17:58:53 Ðen I ðink we should φuck all ðe brußels sprouts. 17:59:16 pikhq: did ðat work? 17:59:19 It isn't reφlected here. 17:59:29 It looks worky. 17:59:35 Ðen I ðink we should φuck all ðe brußels sprouts. 17:59:41 ^_^ 18:01:27 ehird: Work'ſt. 18:01:56 Þou need'ſt moar ſ. 18:02:20 No, mine is φar more elegant; a ðesis on what ðe most noble oφ men must do. Or someðing. 18:02:39 (Repaste ðat, please.) 18:02:47 12:02 < ehird> No, mine is φar more elegant; a ðesis on what ðe most noble oφ men must do. Or someðing. 18:02:51 Wonderφul. 18:02:59 MOTO ſ O KURE. 18:03:09 Moto eß o kure? 18:03:13 Moto, eh, soak you? 18:03:24 I keep reading φ as q, though. Wonder-qul. 18:03:34 Wonderqul. 18:03:55 ehird: Moto = moar, kure = please (informal). 18:04:06 And s/o/wo/ 18:04:18 Moar is never said wið please. 18:06:33 "Please" is a crappy translation of "kure". 18:10:16 Ðen. 18:10:18 Φuck. 18:10:20 φuck 18:10:22 Bruß 18:10:24 Ss 18:10:26 SS 18:10:28 Th 18:10:37 Then, I ðink we should fuck all ðe brussels sprouts. 100% 18:10:40 100ss 18:10:41 100%ß 18:10:43 100%ss 18:10:45 Yay. 18:11:15 pikhq: I am an elegant, civilised person. 18:11:31 Do impart unto me ðe secret "φs", so ðat I may incorporate it. 18:11:48 fs, raðer. 18:12:03 ehird: ſ 18:12:14 Holy praise to ðou. 18:12:51 Now wið 100% more ſ replacement. 18:13:00 :D 18:13:04 pikhq: wait, doeſ it apply at ðe end oφ a word? 18:13:17 No. 18:13:25 Dammit. 18:13:50 Nor doeþ it apply after an s or an f. 18:13:58 φſ. 18:13:59 Dammit. 18:14:14 pikhq: what about aφter an ß? 18:14:35 How often doþ þou write 'sss'? 18:14:45 Good point. 18:15:01 Φinally. 18:15:03 it is perφects. 18:15:06 perſects. 18:15:08 perßects. 18:15:37 Liſp. 18:15:45 (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) 18:15:47 Aw. 18:15:49 No change. :p 18:16:00 So. Hi, pikhq. 18:17:54 Sal. 18:18:24 Diſcombobulation. 18:20:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:29:55 "Haypreß Creek Supercomputer: 360 cores and 250 billion inſtructions per ſecond. On an 8cm x 8cm board." 18:29:57 http://colorφorð.com/haypreß.htm 18:29:59 ... 18:30:05 http://colorforth.com/haypreß.htm 18:30:07 http://colorforth.com/haypress.htm 18:30:11 Ðis could poſe a problem, pikhq. 18:30:22 Indeed. 18:30:34 how do you get around it? 18:31:23 I'm typing ſ and þ manually. 18:31:29 Ouch. 18:31:41 What about GregorR? 18:31:44 Not that hard; just a compose key, and then two letters. 18:31:50 He doesn't. 18:32:17 Doeſn't what? 18:32:29 Get around it. 18:32:38 heh 18:32:45 i mean, I have %char to eſcape. 18:32:45 But. 18:32:51 well φraſe not char really 18:33:08 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has joined. 18:42:23 hah... I have, like, 6 wget wrappers now... 18:43:36 wut 18:44:19 actually, 7, if you count the mp4 appending 18:44:42 wget from specific websites with varying amounts of preprocessing and cookies 18:45:36 for example I have one for YouTube videos I use 18:46:23 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:52:26 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 18:59:33 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection reset by peer). 19:04:35 -!- AnMaster has joined. 19:08:24 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:09:29 grr, X crashed and I was unable to unfsck my terminal. Had to use sysrq. 19:09:41 * AnMaster longs for newer kernels 19:10:15 iirc there is work in progress to clean up graphics handling code in kernel 19:10:29 hopefully it will also make handling X segfaulting easier 19:11:28 It will. 19:11:48 -!- Shuu has left (?). 19:12:08 All graphics mode changing will be done in the kernel, rather than the crazy junk that is having X override the kernel's graphics layer. 19:26:00 okokokokokokokoko 19:30:47 pikhq, how long before binary nvidia drivers start doing that? 19:31:00 :/ 19:31:19 Approximately forever. 19:31:37 pikhq, so won't help me then 19:31:42 The same for binary ATI drivers, but that's okay because the binary ATI drivers are intended to be deprecated. 19:31:54 * pikhq checks on how Nouveau's going 19:32:41 Well, Nouveau already supports that. 19:32:55 Shame it doesn't have stable 3D working. 19:33:34 pikhq, yeah, I pretty much need that. If I can't do flightsim with 2x AA then I'm not changing. :P 19:33:54 I suggest you pick up an ATI card in the future. ;p 19:34:08 pikhq, when I got this card that would have been insane 19:35:08 Fair enough. 19:44:48 -!- nescience has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:45:01 -!- nescience has joined. 19:45:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:02:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:12:17 Þou. <-- certainly not, that was a plural use. 20:13:45 No, it was a ſingular in response to a plural. 20:13:55 ah. 20:13:58 I was explicitly telling ehird to shut up. :) 20:14:17 Alſo, I like only sometimes using ſ. :P 20:14:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:15:39 I implemeneted auto-answer CTRL+A now (can be turned on and off with a configuration setting) 20:16:27 Now you can check to see if it works properly for you, please. 20:16:59 * oerjan doesn't know what zzo38 is talking about 20:17:07 14:16 [freenode] CTCP VERSION reply from zzo38: PHIRC:0.2:PHP 4.4.0 on Windows NT 5.1 i586 20:17:22 oh 20:17:28 * pikhq vomits, vomits some more, and then feels an odd urge to vomit still more 20:17:41 21:17 CTCP PING reply from zzo38: 0.503 seconds 20:18:00 do you mean answers to those? 20:18:13 (VERSION and PING) 20:18:26 Yes, it auto answers to CTRL+A message VERSION and PING and also FINGER and TIME, if it is enabled 20:18:50 ah. 20:18:58 It displays the CTRL+A message anyways, and then prints "AUTO ANSWERED" if it understood it and answered it 20:18:59 s/Ctrl-A/CTCP/ 20:20:47 * oerjan didn't know about FINGER. the reply (user id only) doesn't look too useful... 20:21:09 It gives idle time since the user typed in a command, also. 20:21:17 zzo38: also, your clock is 4 minutes late or so :D 20:21:45 oerjan: He uses Windows; NTP is done poorly there. 20:21:51 I know my clock on my computer is wrong, I think it is slow and that's why it is never correct 20:22:25 zzo38: Use a real OS; get your clock within milliseconds of accuracy. 20:22:36 my windows clock is within the same minute as nvg's linux servers 20:22:53 -!- ehird has left (?). 20:22:57 -!- ehird has joined. 20:23:07 i haven't checked whether it is more accurate than that. 20:23:21 Yeah, that's how crappy Windows NTP is. 20:23:24 The next time I upgrade my operating system it won't be Windows, it will be a Linux distribution of my own design 20:23:44 pikhq: because i don't have a _need_ for it, silly :D 20:23:47 They take a protocol that makes it easy to get sub-second accuracy and make it get minute accuracy. 20:24:08 zzo38: See, that's where you're dumb. 20:24:10 it could very well be on the second. 20:24:25 oerjan: It's not. 20:25:31 * oerjan starts checking 20:28:13 my clock seems to be up to a second late, but not more. 20:28:40 If you send FINGER, did you receive the number after the colon? What number did you get? 20:28:52 43 20:29:29 "user:43" 20:29:48 The number after the colon is the idle time (counting only what the user actually typed to the server) 20:30:59 oh. 20:31:30 i interpreted that as "the user id is 43" :D 20:32:32 i suppose user is your actual username. given how my windows username happened to be the norwegian translation of that. 20:32:42 It might seem so, but if you send another time you might get a different answer and you can know that is not it. 20:32:49 Yes, "user" is my actual username 20:32:53 yeah i just did that 20:33:50 I can see you just did that. It does display the message on the screen even if it auto-answer (it also displays the "AUTO ANSWERED" so I can know it did auto-answered) 20:36:22 irssi does the first (in a different window) and also says "Unknown CTCP" if it doesn't know about it. 20:37:46 (except ACTION which is in the same window of course) 20:45:27 Yay, \[\prod_{k=n}^m x = x_n \times x_{n+1} \times \ldots \times x_{m-1} \times x_m\] typesets properly. <-- i'm not quite sure but i think i would have used \cdots there. 20:45:40 yeah i realiſed ðat recently 20:45:49 ugh ðat φilter's ſtill ðere 20:47:33 Do you think PHIRC is good IRC client? 20:47:50 Unfortunately there is no documentation yet 20:48:38 It's written in ΦP and preliminary eſtimates ſuggeſt ðat ðere are 5 billion conφiguration options. 20:49:20 Why is your writing replaced with other symbols? 20:49:30 I'm ſoφiſticated. 20:49:43 Which is "sophisticated". 20:49:54 O, I knew what it meant 20:50:08 It's Olde Engliſh, Icelandic and ſtuφφ and Greek. 20:50:14 Which means I'm, like, 3x ðe ſoφiſtication. 20:50:15 I can tell. PuTTY does support UTF-8 and will display it correctly 20:50:20 Even iφ I'm not ſure "φφ" is valid. 20:50:41 ehird: that http://filebin.ca/gyhqza/sums-and-products.pdf 20:50:51 looks a bit wrong to me 20:50:52 oerjan: look at ðe reviſed one 20:50:58 but what looks wrong about it 20:51:12 apart φrom not being \cdots 20:52:06 PHIRC actually has only 5 configuration options so far, and 16 slash-commands. If you put a slash it is interpret by client, if there is no slash then it will be sent to the server 20:52:15 the bare x to the left of the equation sign 20:52:34 it needs a k index in both cases 20:53:32 -!- Ilari has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:54:37 bah why don't i read two lines down before commenting :D 20:56:32 O, and it does display asterisks when you are typing your password. 20:57:22 oerjan: yeah :P 20:58:04 It types asterisks, and green, if your command is PASS or /PASS even though there is no /PASS command. It might seem weird but it is possible to add /PASS command by add-in file 20:58:35 the answer, of course, is my neurotic fear of forgetting i was going to comment. 21:01:54 -!- Ilari has joined. 21:08:38 f 21:08:41 Finally. 21:10:31 -!- zzo38 has quit. 21:12:46 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 21:15:30 * ehird teaches emacs and LaTeX to a non-programmer at the same time. 21:15:38 It's like juggling but harder. 21:19:31 real juggling requires three balls. try adding some haskell. 21:20:22 * oerjan cackles evilly. literally. 21:20:38 oerjan: I suspect that'd be easier for a non-programmer, *initially*. 21:20:48 pikhq: Well, he is a math guy, so. 21:20:51 Simply because they have no expectations of how things work at all. 21:20:52 ah. 21:21:04 Let's just call LaTeX his gateway drug to programming :P 21:21:13 Of course, that's only starting out. 21:21:36 Unless the guy is into category theory, monads will freak him out longer than is usual. :P 21:21:51 Don't talk of monads :( 21:21:53 Oh, and corecursion might also do that. 21:22:01 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has changed nick to Slereah. 21:22:36 > do {x <- (+1); y <- (+x); return (x,y)} $ 3 -- what's so hard about that? 21:22:38 (4,7) 21:22:48 pikhq: Corecursion is easy. 21:22:51 It's not anything special. 21:22:54 it's just infinite data structures, really 21:22:56 ehird: For programmers, sure. 21:23:07 pikhq: no 21:23:08 I change my statement. 21:23:16 mathematics has it too 21:23:17 s/corecursion/recursion/ 21:23:21 ... 21:23:23 Mathematics has recursion, dood. 21:23:28 A lot of it. 21:23:46 And most people don't know enough math to get recursion. 21:24:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:24:59 Well, he does. :P 21:25:10 Okay. 21:25:20 In that case, the only hard part is going to be monads. 21:25:31 to get recursion, you must first get recursion. 21:25:40 oerjan: :) 21:25:47 pikhq: data Z = Integer 21:25:52 Call every function "f". 21:25:59 Hmm. Actually, the idea of a "type system" might be slightly tricky. 21:26:00 Put extraneous parentheses and pass multiple arguments in tuples. 21:26:02 Done. :P 21:26:05 pikhq: Uh, mathematical functions are typed. 21:26:17 You see "f : ℕ → ℕ" all the time. 21:26:38 ehird: I'm not sure what level of knowledge is involved here. 21:26:50 Although you usually use "f : ℕ × ℕ → ℕ". 21:26:53 Is this someone that was competent at high-school mathematics, or an actual math geek? 21:26:59 Which would be (Integer,Integer) -> Integer, of course. 21:27:03 pikhq: Latter. 21:27:14 Oh, good. 21:27:44 If it was the former, they've probably only seen functions on the reals and the complex numbers. Types are brain-breaking from that background. 21:27:58 Well, I don't think you get many higher-order functions in mathematics. 21:28:16 Lambda calculus is math. 21:28:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:28:19 ^_^ 21:28:24 So is all programming. 21:28:32 Touché. 21:28:50 Some of it is more formal than others, of course. 21:28:59 Dijkstra! 21:29:07 Hah. 21:32:45 argh, copying track names from a cd sleeve is hard for me.... Since I'm used to touch typing I can't type *without* looking at the screen. 21:32:57 you're not used to touch typing 21:33:01 you just get your feedback after the fact. 21:33:09 touch typing is simply not needing to look. 21:33:36 ehird, I can type without looking, just my head constantly wants to pull away and look at the screen, automatically. 21:33:39 if you see what I mean 21:34:21 integration and derivation are higher-order functions, you know :) 21:34:29 I often-times carry on a conversation, talking to someone else, doing the eye contact bit and everything, while still talking. It kinda surprises people that I can do that, but. :) 21:34:39 oerjan: you don't think of them as functions though, reall. 21:34:40 really. 21:34:41 oerjan: Yes, and many people don't realise this at all. ;) 21:34:57 * pikhq has. 21:35:03 pikhq: Let me confirm. Your third-last statement is a way of saying: 21:35:09 "I can carry on a conversation normally."? 21:35:16 Oh, wait. 21:35:17 talking = typing. 21:35:19 Right? 21:35:38 No; talking to someone IRL while typing on the computer. 21:35:41 Right. 21:35:43 That's what I meant. 21:35:53 I can't, but that's just because my conversation engine is singletasking. 21:36:08 Bah, single-tasking. 21:36:23 I can't help it. If you want to talk to me, you'd better be prepared to wait a minute. :) 21:36:30 Hah. 21:36:32 pikhq: http://xkcd.com/604/ 21:36:45 i get that but i also can't type any more 21:37:21 oerjan: :D 21:39:09 afk 21:54:08 usually when i try to multitask conversations, i stop both conversations. 21:54:20 and wait for one of them to end 21:54:36 sorta hibernation 21:57:27 i've been asked to ask you guys to takl 21:57:29 *talk 21:57:57 oklopol: by whom 21:58:36 judging by all the squirming, somesorta worm. 21:59:02 is this person, like, in here 21:59:12 no. 21:59:18 in my ear 21:59:19 so uh 21:59:23 why'd they want us to talk :D 21:59:30 also are you implying it's you. 21:59:35 watching my screen 22:00:16 dear person watching the screen: YOU'RE A DICK. 22:00:35 oklopol: Kon'nitiha. Hazimemasite? Dōzo yorosiku onegaisimasu. 22:01:08 oerjan: in calculus, while integration and derivation are higher-order functions in the sense that they are functions on functions, there's a clear separation of functions that are data and the -ations them selves 22:01:08 Also, 22:01:11 *themsels 22:01:14 *themselves 22:01:17 oklopol: Saluton! Kiel vi fartas? 22:01:32 esperanto, i presume? 22:01:46 "hello! how do we travel?" 22:02:00 ... 22:02:16 so... not completely correct? 22:02:23 what's the japanese? 22:02:45 Standard introduction. 22:02:49 you can also translate the esperanto in case there were subtle errors 22:02:58 in mine 22:03:00 "Hi! How are you?" 22:03:21 can you specify that a bit 22:03:24 for the esperanto 22:03:50 Farti, IIRC, was "fare", not "travel". :P 22:04:03 If it's not, then I feel dumb. 22:04:05 right. 22:04:15 do realize i don't know even one word of esperanto 22:04:25 Ha. 22:04:56 and "travel" was a joke, although admittedly i didn't come up with fare 22:05:04 fare as in somekinda do? 22:05:37 ehird: you are mean 22:05:45 *mean boy 22:05:52 oklopol: Yeah. 22:06:04 just making sure... for some reason 22:06:11 oklopol: PERSON ON SCREEN IS BITCH ASS 22:06:22 * pikhq shouts: FROMAĜU! 22:06:30 Cheese? 22:06:53 ehird: aren't you the one who's on screen? 22:07:01 um 22:07:03 ... 22:07:05 :( 22:08:06 Deewiant: In the imperative sense. 22:08:20 Right. 22:16:44 oerjan: hm do you \usepackage{amsmath}? it doesn't help that _I'm_ lerning latex too 22:16:54 amssymb+amsmath seems to fuck up fonts here 22:17:23 i may have done, when i actually wrote stuff 22:19:06 oklopol: tangent spaces of manifolds can be defined as consisting of derivation operators. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangent_space#Definition_via_derivations 22:19:34 so no, there is not a clear separation. 22:22:08 afk again 22:22:48 i just meant in the usual bore-calculus. 22:23:19 i don't really know anything about manifolds yet, have to wait till sunday 22:23:21 has anyone used auctex? 22:23:29 what's the command to run latex? i can only get it from the mode menu 22:35:20 http://imgur.com/qy8jN.jpg 22:36:04 ehird: latex 22:36:14 Or if you're using xetex, xelatex 22:36:17 pikhq: Congratulations! I give you the Does Not Know What AUCTeX Is award. 22:36:22 Also Didn't Check Before Answering. :P 22:36:46 YAY! 23:00:10 ehird: ah i see you found out where all my vague recalls come from 23:00:28 oerjan: :D 23:02:55 * oerjan starts scanning the reddit alien soap comments for the obligatory "but is it made from _real_ reddit aliens?" 23:06:00 s/scanning/slowly crawling through/ 23:09:27 oerjan: hmm in mathematics is there actually a difference between x_n and x(n)? 23:09:36 there never seems to be 23:09:48 no, not really 23:10:46 i guess it sort of depends on whether it's intuitively an index or not. 23:11:21 mm 23:11:31 oerjan: does it makes sense to say 'x : N -> N' if it's x_n? 23:11:46 afaik yes 23:12:01 well, it may not be correct style 23:12:26 mm 23:12:38 probably depends on subject, like everything else 23:13:35 i suppose this is sort of a kind of weak typing, just to guide intuition 23:13:41 mm 23:15:05 wow, doing multiline equations in latex is a pain 23:16:37 ehird, I'm at 282 edits now. :P And I added something that wasn't classical music last. 23:16:48 ehird: Is it? 23:16:51 but still nothing you will ever have heard of 23:16:53 * ehird attempts to figure out \begin{align} in latex 23:16:54 pikhq: yes. 23:17:02 I'm just trying to align the : of a type of a function and its definition 23:17:05 AnMaster: oh? 23:17:12 pikhq: and I can't figure out how :D 23:17:30 Ah. 23:17:34 the : is aligning to the start of the = 23:17:37 as opposed to the middle 23:18:05 ehird: \eqnarray ? 23:18:06 ehird, translated title is roughly (but with the puns lost): "The best of Povel Ramel". He was a Swedish comedian and jazz musician. Most of his works would be untranslatable. 23:18:19 oerjan: first result on google is "Avoid eqnarray!" 23:18:22 colour me unimperssed :) 23:18:24 unimpressed 23:18:25 heh 23:18:35 Abstract Whenever the eqnarray environment appears in a question or an example 23:18:35 of a problem on comp.text.tex or the TEXhax mailing list there is a large 23:18:36 chance that someone will tell the poster not to use eqnarray. This article 23:18:38 will provide some examples of why many of us consider eqnarray to be 23:18:40 harmful and why it should not be used. 23:18:45 ehird, that was a boxed set of 5 cds. Did you know what the titles ended up like thanks ot MB guidelines? 23:18:48 It is hilarious 23:18:56 AnMaster: what? 23:19:05 example: 23:19:06 Det bästa av Povels mångsidor: Karamelodier i kategorier (disc 4: Tvålar, Corkar och kokosnötter: Povel - Bearbetaren) 23:19:24 looks quite sane to me. 23:19:27 ehird, couldn't use , for newline in the subtitle of the disc, since that was already used in the title 23:19:32 so had to switch to : 23:19:53 , seems to be used quite often for that otherwise 23:20:04 - was used too in the title as you can see 23:20:43 ehird, oh and google translate won't be much use. Two made up words. 23:22:55 * oerjan doesn't have a coconut to fail at opening :( 23:25:16 oerjan, :) 23:25:42 oerjan, Are you flying though? 23:26:19 how so? 23:26:27 * oerjan cannot find the lyrics to it either 23:26:37 oerjan, Possibly with a cone filled with caramels? 23:27:07 is this the same song? i don't recall _that_ many povel ramel songs... 23:27:16 oerjan, are you at Blue Hawaii? 23:27:27 oerjan, not *exact* names. Some got lost in translation 23:27:47 blue hawaii rings a bell, but isn't that vikingarna or something? 23:27:53 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:28:15 "Titta jag flyger", "Tänk dig en strut karameller", "Vårt eget Blue Hawaii", and you mented "Far jag kan inte få upp min kokosnöt" 23:28:34 oerjan, But whatever you do, don't buy a zebra? Ok? 23:28:36 ah so blue hawaii _is_ his 23:28:46 * oerjan will try to avoid it 23:29:04 oerjan, did you remember that one? It is hilarious :) 23:29:37 oerjan, why not listen to something happy? Like a blues? 23:29:44 no real bell there 23:29:58 "Köp inte en zebra" and "En glad blues" 23:30:38 oerjan, I have a book with music sheets and lyrics for a lot (far from all of course) by Povel Ramel 23:31:16 I read somewhere that Povel Ramel was more productive than Mozart even, if you count in number of different music pieces! 23:31:41 that may well be. i happened to look at his wikipedia page the other day 23:32:06 (of course, it could be argued that in most cases Mozart's works were much longer, having several movements and so on) 23:32:37 I never seen any "total bar count" or "total note count" for either. 23:33:03 i was looking through the novelty songs category, and came upon the original english song kokosnöttar was translated from 23:33:31 *-ar 23:33:56 what's it called 23:34:14 "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" 23:34:29 Everyone is sitting in a row! 23:34:33 Big ones, small ones 23:34:37 Some as big as your head! 23:34:48 Give them a twist, a flick of the wrist, that's what the showman said! 23:34:58 :D 23:35:30 same melody i assume, but the text is quite different 23:35:49 Hmm. 23:35:55 I seem to be getting a little better at TeX. 23:36:29 and although i can only recall the beginning, i vaguely think ramel's was funnier than that 23:36:52 oerjan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSzeE0YysV0 23:41:05 now what michael jackson was doing in there i cannot say. 23:41:21 No idea 23:41:31 Maybe it's a joke on Michael Jackson being white 23:41:38 (If you know the ethnic slur coconut) 23:41:54 oh well 23:42:27 * oerjan wonders about the comment claiming it isn't monty python anyway 23:43:27 Merv Griffin's recording with Freddie Martin and His Orchestra is often miscredited to Monty Python on the Internet. The Martin/Griffin version reached the Billboard retail Top 10 and is widely reported to be a million-seller. 23:43:45 ooh i spelled kokosnöt wrong 23:43:53 ew :( 23:44:12 Cocoa snot? 23:44:51 * oerjan throws a coconut at pikhq (@) 23:45:04 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:45:59 "I came home Sunday and immediately fell asleep. I dreamt of an army of monkeys. Not The Army of The Twelve Monkeys, just a run-of-the-mill army of an indeterminate number of monkeys. Not an infinite number of monkeys, although the monkeys were willing to commit suicide by solving an infinite number of simultaneous equations. They were ascending a staircase of some sort. A golden staircase, ascending to Heaven. Good Lord, not a Stairway To Heaven, but ye 23:46:02 s, there was a stairway involved, and Heaven. And monkeys. Perhaps it was a non-golden staircase, but began its ascent from the Golden Gate Bridge. But there were definitely monkeys. Monkeys solving an infinite number of simultaneous equations, and then dying. They were mathematical martyrs. Mathematical martyr monkeys." 23:46:28 ok ramel's lyrics are _definitely_ funnier 23:46:35 * pikhq throws an IO Coconut at oerjan. 23:46:48 That one can have side effects! 23:46:57 * oerjan refuses to go near the IO monad, so there! 23:47:17 * pikhq returns oerjan in the IO monad 23:47:41 aargh! 23:49:05 Oleg's a true Monad a. 23:49:10 (Get it? GET IT?) 23:49:55 do 23:49:55 you 23:49:56 get 23:49:58 it 23:50:40 no. *sad trumpet* 23:50:52 Monad a → alpha monad 23:50:54 alpha male 23:50:56 it's soooo funny 23:50:59 it's not really funny 23:50:59 but 23:51:01 it's soooooo funny 23:51:13 ... Oleg's an instance of monad, eh? 23:51:22 NO THAT IS NOT THE JOKE YOU SUCK 23:51:33 ehird<$>Oleg 23:51:59 the other way around, possibly. 23:52:02 pikhq: LEARN DE JOKE 23:52:54 apparently ehird can no longer distinguish greek and roman letters. 23:53:25 89f7$$ 23:54:41 ehird: Functor off. 23:54:48 pikhq: You suck. 23:54:57 You ſuck. 23:55:14 Yes. I do. 23:58:00 augur will be so pleased. 23:58:12 oh my 23:59:57 Hey, I don't think sucking is some sort of uncommon action. :-P