00:00:00 http://code.google.com/p/virtualagc/source/browse/trunk/Luminary099/LUNAR_LANDING_GUIDANCE_EQUATIONS.s 00:00:05 wtf 00:00:06 it's gone 00:00:10 http://code.google.com/p/virtualagc/source/browse/trunk/Luminary099/LUNAR_LANDING_GUIDANCE_EQUATIONS.s?r=258 00:00:11 meh 00:01:35 I am so glad I have higher level languages. 00:04:00 i don't believe the comments are real 00:04:13 i don't believe that unicorns don't exist 00:04:37 nooga: get the images from http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ 00:06:30 hm 00:06:38 admittedly i can't find where they are 00:06:49 anyway it must've been cool to interface a spaceship 00:07:00 more like fucking scary 00:07:41 gotta get it totally right, everyone in the world is watching, and if you screw up, you've killed 3 highly intelligent cultural icons and ruined the dream of the fulfillment of JFK's wish: the single biggest accomplishment of humanity to date 00:07:47 so, no pressure 00:12:09 uhm 00:12:52 uhm what 00:13:16 brobably that's why ADA was created 00:13:22 *Ada 00:13:33 and Ada doesn't help you write algorithms that work 00:13:40 it just stops stupid semantic errors 00:13:42 as opposed to logical ones 00:15:33 fungot: Further our inevitable doom. 00:15:33 ehird: ( e) if there were more than one order, the clerk of the 00:15:35 fungot: Further our inevitable doom. 00:15:36 ehird: clerk of the 00:15:37 Meh. 00:20:02 heard of Clojure ? 00:20:14 yes. 00:20:15 it sucks. 00:23:05 yes 00:23:07 it sucks 00:23:27 but it's less awkward than erlang 00:24:01 Uhh, if you're on crack. 00:26:05 Uh, there's nothing particularly awkward about Erlang. 00:26:52 Shame that its type system isn't that complex. 00:27:14 okay 00:27:24 i don't know erlang but it seems awkward 00:27:29 lol 00:27:32 what a stupid metric 00:27:45 Compared to sexps? 00:27:46 i'll tell you what's awkward 00:27:59 clojure is a lisp without the lisp, merely a gutted shell on top of the oh-so-hateful JVM 00:28:10 its primitives suck, its immutability isn't handled well, making it awkward 00:28:15 and it uses java threads for concurrency 00:28:21 thus making it useless for massive concurrenccy 00:28:24 *concurrency 00:28:30 ... Eeeeew. 00:28:31 …so we get all these compromises for no reward 00:28:35 on a horrible platform 00:28:41 sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet 00:29:10 Except for compiling to a common bytecode. ... Which Haskell can do without the compromises. 00:29:25 (someone made a Haskell->JVM compiler) 00:29:32 pikhq: please, no 00:29:34 lambdavm sucks 00:29:36 and is unmaintained 00:29:37 and sucks 00:29:38 dearly 00:29:41 and also has terrible performance 00:29:46 because it generates awful code 00:29:49 and just yeah don't even go there 00:29:58 ehird: Well, it's not like JVM is meant as a general-purpose bytecode. 00:30:06 it is nowadays 00:30:16 It's suitable for Java, and a few other languages manage to work with it. 00:32:30 this is all true 00:32:53 clojure sucks 00:33:01 java and jvm sucks 00:33:05 fast turnaround there 00:33:23 where? 00:33:37 did i say that clojure is cool and erlang is crap? 00:33:54 i've said that clojure sucks but it's less awkward than erlang 00:34:02 /shrug 00:34:07 clojure is pretty much the worst new language 00:34:14 sure 00:34:24 Erlang is not very awkward. 00:34:43 okay, it has an awkward name 00:34:46 ;D 00:34:51 Weird-ass psuedo-sexps, that's awkward. 00:35:35 Erlang is very Sveedish. 00:36:05 i want a language that lets me write program as if it were written for a single computer and then run it on a multiple nodes as a raw machine code ! 00:36:25 Erlang's the closest to that. 00:36:27 oh, tenses 00:36:56 really? 00:37:03 no 00:37:04 it's not 00:37:12 nooga: what you ask for is impossible 00:37:14 i thought so 00:37:21 automatic parallelization has to figure out what options are significant and which aren't 00:37:24 not on a level of language 00:37:27 OS, probably 00:37:29 otherwise you parallelize everything and the overhead breaks it down 00:37:34 you have to specify 00:37:36 there's no free lunch 00:37:47 we just need languages that express concurrency more fluently 00:38:05 P6 with its | ? 00:38:07 naah 00:38:16 did i say that. 00:38:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:39:03 ehird: Haskell and Erlang seem to be doing a decent job at that. 00:39:10 nah 00:39:10 i was thinking out loud 00:39:12 you need a total restating 00:39:16 nooga: ah 00:39:29 I WAS THINKING! 00:39:40 wow! 00:39:49 huh 00:39:50 What, are you not even happy with STM? 00:39:57 pikhq: that's about concurrent state 00:39:58 not concurrency 00:40:00 an idea just popped into my head! 00:40:06 very colourless and green 00:40:09 it's sleeping furiously atm 00:40:20 EXPRESSSS!!! 00:40:25 but i think i can represent distributed computation … thingies as objects that … thingy 00:40:28 bit underripe atm 00:40:38 but the imagery was nice! 00:40:48 foo `par` (bar `seq` baz foo bar) 00:41:11 pikhq: i get you're a haskell fanboy but it's not a panacea 00:41:27 ehird: YES IT IS 00:41:31 :p 00:41:48 IF HASKELL IS NOT THE RIGHT SOLUTION ITS NOT WORTH DOING 00:42:08 What about its not worth doing? 00:42:22 Alternatively: Your wrong bitch. 00:46:28 ehird: very colourless and green << synesthesis ? 00:46:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_furiously 00:46:46 s 00:46:47 s 00:46:48 oops 00:47:35 chomsky is completely wrong 00:47:43 lol. 00:47:47 no, he's not. 00:48:28 people will automatically find meaning in any phrase 00:49:54 you can't compose a phrase completely without meaning 00:50:00 yes you can 00:50:36 nooga: monogamous aardvark tetragrammaton ovulating invisible pink unicorns on the stair that is not a stair that is a flower that is a train that is that which is not that which can be described as it where it is not itself where itself refers to the whole whole and it is it but it is not it 00:50:53 that latter part is so easy to find meaning in 00:52:24 nonsensical but still, lovers of modern poetry would find something about dying whales here 00:52:37 nooga: Also, 00:52:40 While the meaninglessness of the sentence is often considered fundamental to Chomsky's point, Chomsky was relying upon this only to ensure that the sentences had never been spoken before. Thus, even if one were to prescribe a likely and reasonable meaning to the sentence, the grammaticalness of the sentences are concrete despite being the first time a person had ever heard that phrase, or those words in such a combination. 00:52:43 In conclusion, you fail. 00:53:14 uhm 00:57:18 . 00:57:45 Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. 00:57:53 that's what we're "discussing" 00:58:11 I was making an observation concerning ideas. 00:58:35 :p 00:59:25 uhm 00:59:30 uhm 00:59:36 * nooga is reading about C under plan9 00:59:45 and.... LOOOOKS KEWL! 00:59:51 it* 01:00:13 well, you have some taste at least 01:09:28 seen Newsqueak? 01:09:48 The mouse thing? No. 01:10:14 This is an informal reference manual for the concurrent language Newsqueak. 01:10:14 Newsqueak’s roots are in Squeak, a language designed a few years ago by Luca Cardelli andRob Pike to illustrate concurrent solutions to problems in user interface design. 01:10:17 Confusing. 01:10:19 It's not Smalltalk at all. 01:10:32 This looks quite ordinary. 01:12:09 channels are pretty good idea 01:12:20 but simplistic. 01:23:32 hahahaha 01:24:04 they had Unix like OS called CROOK on MERA 400 computers at my university in 70's 01:24:31 and i've got perforated tapes from that computer 01:32:04 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:55:19 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:56:33 -!- nooga has joined. 02:07:54 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:08:27 -!- nooga has joined. 02:18:11 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 02:19:12 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:24:41 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:25:13 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 03:17:57 -!- nescience has joined. 03:17:58 -!- evenant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:42:55 Macrons, anēwun? 03:44:11 Ōr shoold Ī dōō sumthing ūsf@l insted? 03:44:41 I eat macrons for breakfast. 03:44:56 Līk figūring owt how tō tīp ə. 03:45:34 * Warrigal səlects it and plans tō rīght-click. 03:46:57 * Warrigal yôns. 04:09:04 "You're the banana king, Charlie!" "No, I'm not! That doesn't even make sense!" 04:32:28 FILE *file = !fopen "filename" r!;!fprintf file "Hello, world\!\n"!;!fclose file!; // Let there be a nice C macro system. 04:36:49 why? 04:38:06 Too much boilerplate. Needs moar metaprogramming. 04:38:45 (note: fopen, fprintf, and fclose all can result in errors.) 04:47:54 i wonder why you're not allowed to cast void pointers to function pointers 04:49:01 Because on certain platforms, data pointers and code pointers aren't the same length. 04:49:19 e.g. 16-bit DOS with code all in the lower 16-bit and data in 24-bit space. 04:49:54 harvard architecture? 04:50:07 GregorR: Actually, on DOS, there's more than one type of data pointer. 04:50:16 Near pointers are 16-bit, far are 24-bit. 04:50:17 ;) 04:50:58 Sure, but with the right compiler flags, void * is always 32-bit, and void (*)() is always 16-bit. 04:51:06 (Arguably, s/right/wrong/ :P) 04:51:14 Heheh. 04:51:41 i can't remember, are you allowed to cast between function pointers? 04:52:14 Generally. 04:52:17 Not implicitly, obviously. 04:52:29 (I think? Idonno :P ) 04:58:21 -!- Pthing has quit ("Leaving"). 04:58:39 -!- Pthing has joined. 06:14:38 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:37:40 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 08:39:20 -!- Deewiant has joined. 08:52:59 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:17:48 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:22:10 -!- nooga has joined. 10:40:29 -!- AnMaster has joined. 10:52:54 -!- ehird has left (?). 10:52:57 -!- ehird has joined. 10:52:59 -!- ehird has left (?). 10:53:03 -!- ehird has joined. 10:55:38 03:51 bsmntbombdood: i can't remember, are you allowed to cast between function pointers? 10:55:50 presumably not between (fptr →) and (ptr →) 11:02:10 Not even between two function pointer types 11:02:27 Or you can cast, but you can't call it unless you cast back 11:02:41 (Well, you can, but it's undefined.) 11:06:16 It *would* be quite a surprise if it actually were legal to call a function with the wrong type of pointer. 11:07:03 Well, the type might actually be right, but if you originally got it as a wrong type it's still not allowed. 11:08:16 But you just said you can call it when you cast it back. 11:08:21 no! 11:09:10 fizzie: Only if it started life as the right type. 11:09:34 It might be that the case I'm thinking off is actually impossible. 11:09:39 How can you "start life" as the wrong type? I mean, you get a function pointer by taking the address of a function, and that's the right type. 11:10:27 I have indeed been under the impression that things are very difficult with function pointers, what with there being no void-pointer style thing there. 11:10:51 Yeah, I was thinking of: 11:11:17 wrongtype fp = (wrongtype)&foo; (*(righttype)(fp))(); 11:11:26 But that works since &foo is righttype. 11:11:39 Right, http://c-faq.com/ptrs/generic.html 11:11:53 "It is guaranteed, however, that all function pointers can be interconverted, as long as they are converted back to an appropriate type before calling." 11:12:13 Yep. 11:21:11 crazy. 11:21:19 i cast function pointers quite often 11:24:39 Welcome to the club of every C programmer ever: your code may not be portable 11:24:49 yuh :) 11:41:27 "The Ace clones from Franklin Computer Corporation are the best known and had the most lasting impact, as Franklin copied Apple's ROMs and software and freely admitted to doing so. Franklin's argument: a computer's ROM was simply a pattern of switches locked into a fixed position, and one cannot copyright a pattern of switches. Apple fought Franklin in court for about five years to get its clones off the market, and was ultimately successful when a court 11:41:30 ruled that software stored in ROM was in fact copyrightable in United States. (See Apple Computer, Inc. v. Franklin Computer Corp.)" 11:41:33 Dammit, Apple! 11:41:40 Just go and create software copyright why don'tcha 11:47:50 i lol'd 11:49:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:04:20 apple apple 12:04:23 apple apple 12:04:32 aaple aplle 12:04:39 aplee 12:04:53 a pee. 12:05:01 a pea. 12:06:00 i feel urge to write a thin layer on top of C to enable defining operators 12:06:24 and array literals 12:07:34 nooga: i want to shoot people who refuse to get into a language and instead just write shit that they already know in it. 12:07:43 be warned, for i have an invisible gun. 12:07:56 i use C 12:08:06 quite intensively 12:08:33 but not decently, as shown 12:08:42 uh 12:09:05 try to write vector equations using function calls 12:09:13 looks ugly, hard to debug 12:09:19 stop using c for writing such things. 12:09:30 C is fast 12:10:05 nooga: Fuck. This. Impression. C is not always fast. C is not the only fast language. And if you're doing v2 = (v0 + v1) / blah blah blah, it's going to entirely consist of function calls. 12:10:09 To functions… implemented in C. 12:10:15 It would be incredibly difficult to make that slow. 12:12:01 i just need a specialized preprocessor to make my program look nicer 12:12:16 and less verbose 12:12:55 /sigh 12:13:01 i'm glad i'll never touch any of your code 12:13:47 why do you negate all my ideas 12:14:04 you have a great propensity for bad ones 12:14:15 it's your opinion 12:15:03 i also have opinions like "2 + 2 = 4", "killing people is bad" etc 12:15:06 :p 12:21:18 "killing people is bad" really is an opinion, ehird 12:21:27 yes. 12:21:28 yes it is 12:21:45 ... 12:21:48 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has changed nick to Slereah. 12:21:50 There we go 12:21:53 Slereah: what is your point? 12:22:00 Well, 2+2 = 4 isn't 12:22:04 sure is 12:22:09 i could be totally misunderstanding the axioms 12:22:18 and hallucinating everyone else who says that 2 + 2 = 4 12:22:28 Well, while they're abstract concepts, you know what I mean 12:22:44 Slereah: who says i'm not mentally insane 12:22:50 Me. 12:22:51 maybe everyone's been saying 2 + 2 = 5 12:22:55 maybe there's a proof of it 12:23:00 maybe my display is actually a toaster! 12:23:10 (ok, so this is a bit of a slippery slope because everything becomes an opinion.) 12:23:15 Well yeah, but with that kind of attitude, everything is "an opinion" 12:23:25 I'm not even sure opinion would be the correct word here 12:23:31 yeah 12:23:47 i started listing just factual stuff, but then decided he wouldn't understand if i didn't put in a generally accepted opinion 12:24:12 Dude, you put two things in here 12:24:19 Don't say "I started listing" 12:25:42 :D 12:30:42 ehird: i can't imagine how my idea can be bad, we're on channel that's about mainly useless and twisted programming languages that break RULES 12:30:58 because we don't put esolangs in Actual Real Systems. 12:31:03 we're here specifically BECAUSE we never would. 12:31:13 (ok, maybe AnMaster would, but nobody sane would tell him to program something) 12:31:15 ? 12:31:53 okay, and if i say that i'd like to create a language with pleasant syntax that resembles C and compiles to C ? 12:32:09 ehird, I might joke about doing that, not sure if I actually would. 12:32:10 i think you're missing the point. 12:32:27 C has pleasant syntax 12:32:35 err ... what? 12:32:43 what are you comparing C to then? PHP? 12:33:02 COBOL! 12:33:09 or that 12:33:21 ADD SYNTACTIC EXTENSIONS TO C GIVING NOOGA'S FUCKED UP CHIMERA LANGUAGE 12:33:22 yes there are worse languages than C. Lots of worse ones. But calling the C syntax "pleasant" seems backwards. 12:34:29 AnMaster: that second syntax could be said as just "Lots." 12:34:37 also, i don't think "worse" works there 12:34:42 wait 12:34:43 AnMaster: "Many." 12:34:44 not lots 12:34:49 that's why it sounded awkward 12:35:06 alsothereshouldbeacommaafter"yes" 12:35:07 AnMaster: that second syntax could be said as just "Lots." <-- err, which second one? I did holistic reading of the scrollback when I was highlighted. 12:35:18 12:33 AnMaster: yes there are worse languages than C. Lots of worse ones. But calling the C syntax "pleasant" seems backwards. 12:35:21 → 12:35:22 ah 12:35:25 yes, there are worse languages than C. Many. But calling the C syntax "pleasant" seems backwards. 12:35:36 not sure how to make it sound OK with the second sentence still being redundant 12:35:53 ah right 12:35:55 that "lots" 12:37:04 ok, haskell syntax is pleasand 12:37:13 pleasant* 12:38:22 a short list of "worse syntax than C": PHP, COBOL, AppleScript, C++, BASIC 12:38:38 far from comprehensive 12:41:48 ehh i'm sorta tempted to defend applescript because for simple OS scripting tasks it writes more smoothly than a sigiled up syntax imo, butttttttttttt i don't exactly -like- the syntax 12:44:05 joy has pleasant syntax 13:23:00 A proposed slogan for David Icke: Not Rapture— Raptor! 13:27:54 On a "REPTILIAN SHAPESHIFT OH GOD VIDEO", YouTube: 13:27:55 ccon69 (4 days ago) +1 Reply | Spam 13:27:55 You can't do this kind of analysis with YouTube quality video and to even try show's you have limited intellect. 13:27:58 gillamrl (4 days ago) Reply 13:28:00 You have no clue about frequency. 13:28:02 FLV is the format for truth........ 13:28:04 ccon69 (1 day ago) +1 Reply | Spam 13:28:06 FLV is low quality video and to do a video analysis in this format is a waste of time. 13:28:08 gillamrl (17 hours ago) Reply 13:28:10 Wrong FLV allows us to peer through the other dimension. 13:28:14 FLV: the dimension-peering truth frequency format! 13:34:16 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:34:47 -!- nooga has joined. 13:38:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:40:22 ehird, I didn't say applescript didn't get the job done. :P 13:40:45 AnMaster: what i was trying to say is that applescript would be less useful for OS scripting tasks if it had a more typical syntax, IMO 13:41:02 since it's almost all simple function calls, really, and those fit very easily into the natural language model 13:41:04 ehird, hm possible. 13:41:17 there's still the problem of the "Why doesn't it understand my English?!", though 13:41:25 even if the syntax is as formal as any other language 13:42:11 ehird, but try to do something with any sort of flow control in it. Sure it can be done. Just not very nicely. And doing something like "for each foo in bar { some typical scripting task on each here }" isn't so unusual for scripting :P 13:42:50 ehird, oh another thing, at least on classical Mac OS, it was hard to find good docs on syntax and such. Everything was tutorial style rather than reference guide style 13:43:29 so you had to look at what other scripts did to find out the syntax for the handler thing ("on xxx" iirc? Was ages ago I coded in it...) 13:43:30 i'm pretty sure applescript has a standard each-loop 13:43:35 and also ifs and the like 13:43:49 AnMaster: i think it's better nowadays 13:43:55 still, there's not much to learn, really 13:43:58 AnMaster: also, you can view the Dictionaries 13:44:04 ehird, yes of course 13:44:05 applescripty applications come with full API documentation 13:44:10 organized etc 13:44:10 but that doesn't help for the syntax 13:44:14 yeah 13:44:15 of the language itself 13:44:36 but that's a tiny part; even things like (say "Hello." with "voice") are part of a service 13:44:50 Oh and "set item of container to value" instead of "container.item = value". Means you have to jump back and forth a bit there when reading the script. 13:45:12 AnMaster: "set container's item to value" 13:45:56 but applescript could be better, inded 13:45:58 indeed 13:46:17 ADD SYNTACTIC EXTENSIONS TO C GIVING NOOGA'S FUCKED UP CHIMERA LANGUAGE <-- this would be META-COBOL, i guess? 13:46:23 oerjan: :D 13:46:25 Metabol. 13:46:30 Coding in it is Metabolism. 13:46:35 ehird, what about stuff like creating scripts that look like applications? And where you can drop things on? On classical MacOS how to do that wasn't documented, except well hidden inside an unrelated SDK (NOT the "AppleScript SDK", I think it was in "ColorSync SDK"(!)) as a comment in a script included with it. 13:47:13 AnMaster: I'm not sure you can do arbitrary Cocoa stuff, but basic dialog stuff is well documented. Pretty sure once you get to that point you're meant to start up Xcode and brush up on your Objective-C. 13:47:20 If it was in ColorSync SDK it was probably just meant for that. 13:47:28 ehird, I meant as in, making the script an app that you can drop files on 13:47:33 Ah. 13:47:35 it was used in lots of places by apple 13:47:42 I'd be surprised if that's not well-documented nowadays. I'll take a look. 13:47:43 and third parties 13:47:50 ehird, I hope so. 13:48:24 AnMaster: It's not in ColorSyncScripting, which is a good indicator. 13:48:54 back then it was a single SDK for scripting and C interface at least. hm 13:50:24 It might be in System Events or something. Too lazy to look further. 13:50:37 np 13:52:08 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2009/02/08/linglish-or-some-thoughts-on-a-scripting-language-for-the-linux-desktop and http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2009/02/11/more-thoughts-on-linglish looks basically like AppleScript for D-Bus (so, uh, mostly gnome; KDE uses dcop doesn't it?) 13:52:20 well it looks EXACTLY like that, not "basically" :P 13:53:59 -!- nooga_ has joined. 13:54:41 -!- nooga has quit (Success). 13:54:58 ehird, KDE4 uses dbus too 13:55:04 Neat. 13:55:04 kde 3.x uses dcop 13:55:36 I remember that one of the things that made me fall in love with KDE 3 was that article "KDE Rocks!" or whatever, that I can't find any more; it had a whole section on doing cool shit with dcop. 13:55:43 It was wonderful to have such a ubiquitous environment; very much like an object system. 13:56:37 Wow: http://computer-dating.com/ 13:56:48 Copyright 1995–1997 indeed. 13:56:53 (Note: That's an en dash, that.) 13:57:47 down at the wiki, the wiki is down 14:08:59 anyone remember the KDE Rocks article? 14:09:08 it was just a huge list with screenshots of awesome KDE 3 magic 14:09:18 like kparts k... url things 14:09:19 and the like 14:09:22 gray background 14:12:04 * Sgeo is falling in love with web2py 14:13:31 web2py is awful 14:13:34 and the author is a troll and spammer 14:15:04 ack 14:15:08 How is it awful? 14:15:17 ehird: and tells his friends to spam reddit ^^ 14:15:20 Leonidas: yuh 14:15:28 Sgeo: the code is incredibly unpythonic and badly written, 14:15:35 the administration interface is cheesy and unhelpful beyond a point, 14:15:39 Sgeo: ugly code, and massimo does not have a clue on ahything 14:15:44 he constantly spams reddit with articles about django and shit and how his is so much better 14:15:47 while giving veiled praise to django 14:15:49 to elevate his opinions 14:15:57 he teaches a class where he basically indoctrinates the students to love web2py 14:16:03 then gets them to spam reddit all with loving posts about it 14:16:06 and criticism of django 14:16:11 etc, etc 14:16:18 terrible concepts, terrible code, terrible authorr 14:16:20 *author 14:16:24 I had some message from massimo where he was asked whether web2py supports ORMs or something and hias answer was "dunno". 14:16:32 Leonidas: lol 14:16:34 The developer being a bad person ...... wait what? 14:16:41 Sgeo: apparently you can't read ↑↑↑↑ 14:16:52 Sgeo: not bad, more clueless 14:16:59 spammer, troll and clueless 14:17:07 Does e not know what an ORM is? 14:17:15 web2py < merb 14:17:29 Sgeo: I got that impression from that mail, yes. 14:17:30 Sgeo: even if he does, he's continually shown his cluelessness about all such things 14:17:40 the site listed on his university page was made with iWeb :-) 14:17:47 (bundled point-and-click, templated site creator w/ OS X) 14:17:55 Sgeo: in the meantime, he implemented an "ORM" by himself, so apparently now he knows what it is 14:18:09 Leonidas: ugh, i think i remember that one 14:18:19 wasn't it basically mangled SQL with UPPERCASE METHOD NAMES and a bunch of crazy conventions 14:18:37 ooh, who could forget "KPAX CMS"? it's social wiki blog chat news groups and has permissions! 14:18:58 If I want a framework which I have to unfuck by myself, I'd rather go with web.py 14:19:08 unfuck :D 14:19:20 If I want a framework thats not fucked up in the first place, I stay away from both 14:19:29 web.py is better nowadays 14:19:36 but i prefer something a little more full-stack. 14:19:47 what happened with aaronsw? 14:19:49 * Sgeo has already spoiled himself on web2py :( 14:19:51 dammit, i may be a minimalist, but that means i don't want to write the redundant glue code 14:20:03 Now, how do I reorient my brain towards Django? 14:20:05 Sgeo: if you think you're spoiled on it, you must be the starving african child of web framework users 14:20:28 Leonidas: aaronsw went on to make some sort of transparent government site and blogs about crap and i think he develpos web.py 14:20:32 so ummm not much as far as i know 14:20:32 oh, and the "enterpriseyness" of web2py with the focus on the admin interface it just ridiculous 14:20:57 Sgeo: read the tutorial 14:20:59 enterprise is another word for cheesy 14:21:02 trufax 14:21:07 ehird: true, that 14:21:20 Java Cheesy Edition 14:21:29 Leonidas: isn't that a bit redundant 14:22:09 ehird: no, because EE puts a new dimension of bloat on top of the ridiculous problems of java. IMO 14:22:26 i thankfully have not used it. 14:22:58 Sgeo: or maybe checkout the 4-letters-frameworks with have appeared recently 14:23:03 4 letters? 14:23:12 eh? 14:23:23 ehird: I tried using it, but the complexity to start with put me off 14:23:31 whadya mean by 4 letters 14:23:39 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 14:24:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:24:19 ? 14:24:20 ehird: http://simonwillison.net/2009/May/19/djng/ + juno, newf, mnml, itty 14:24:27 oh, those ones. 14:24:31 kinda lame. 14:24:37 or bottle, although that has too many letters. 14:24:49 at least bottle has a sane author. 14:24:59 a minimalist thing isn't really minimal if to use it for its intended purpose you have to do a lot of complicated things 14:25:02 (writing glue code) 14:25:27 "bottle.py is a fast and simple mirco-framework for small web-applications." // "mirco"; good first impression 14:26:09 ehird: yep, I already mentioned it to the author, at least he fixed his signature ^^ 14:26:34 anyway web programming is so boring. 14:26:43 ack 14:26:56 ack is such an ambiguous word 14:26:58 ehird: have some experience with these mini-frameworks? 14:27:00 it's either "ack!" or ACK 14:27:05 and they mean basically opposites :D 14:27:16 web2py has HTML forum creation coupled with the model, I think 14:27:16 Leonidas: no, i stopped batting around python frameworks like a year ago 14:27:27 Which is worrisome, but convenient 14:27:27 Sgeo: "HTML forum creation"; nice Freudian slip. 14:27:39 Sgeo: django has it too, but decoupled 14:27:41 I wouldn't be surprised if it embedded whole forum softwares in unrelated models. 14:27:43 What Leonidas said. 14:28:15 ehird: maybe I meant ack-grep and typed into the wrong window ;) 14:28:20 Django has everything web2py does apart from the terrible code, lack of community, stupid write-code-in-a-web-interface, lack of modularity, and lack of nice features 14:28:27 (that as, nice addon features) 14:28:33 (NOT random crap bolted on to the core) 14:29:35 write-code-in-a-web-interface is a great idea from Zope until they realized that it sucks badly. 14:30:07 Leonidas: "it's a great idea that sucks badly"? :D 14:30:25 a good way of making a decision on whether something is pythonic is to see if zope does it 14:30:28 if they do, it's unpythonic 14:30:29 sarcasm does not transmit well over irc 14:30:34 lol ehird 14:30:35 Leonidas: i guessed it was sarcasm 14:30:37 just funny phrasing 14:30:49 hmm, zope has an object database actually 14:30:50 and those are quite nice 14:30:56 so my rule doesn't always apply :P 14:31:06 (its OODB has a bloated api though) 14:31:14 * Leonidas even uses funny phrases in spoken sentences, so people sometimes go 'WTF?' 14:31:48 ehird: theres also Durus, though I don't see the point, since ZODB works even without Zope 14:32:00 people pronouncing wtf make me want to stab people >:| 14:32:04 Leonidas: Durus has a lot nicer API 14:32:17 and Zope crap tends to pull in weird Zope pie-in-the-sky architectural dependencies 14:32:27 *Durus' API is a lot nicer 14:32:28 sometimes I really wish I could just switch to an OODB and be done with it 14:32:31 /much nicer, whatever 14:32:45 Durus and ZODB don't handle things like search and stuff really though 14:32:49 i mean not very well 14:32:55 exactly 14:33:05 ...i hope i never use an SQL database much, though... 14:33:07 I do like web2py's ORM to some extent: db(Article.id>3 and Article.name==test).select() 14:33:07 hate those things 14:33:24 Sgeo: Django does that but without the horrible abuse of syntax and comparison operators. 14:33:42 ..the syntax is what I like about it 14:33:44 I could implement my own OODB using pickles, but that would have every problem that ZODB has 14:33:56 Sgeo: Your liking is wrong. 14:34:00 Sgeo: SQLAlchemy has a similar syntax 14:34:08 It's unpythonic, it breaks expectations, and it's not needed. 14:34:14 sometimes I really wonder how the queries work 14:34:18 You don't want it, you just think you do. :) 14:34:32 (And I know why it's appealing; I wanted to make an ORM that did it once.) 14:34:34 (Turns out it sucks.) 14:40:24 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Connection timed out). 14:40:49 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 14:43:37 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving"). 14:49:23 -!- nooga has joined. 14:49:35 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:51:13 -!- GregorR has joined. 14:51:32 Bleh, why can't I do kernel upgrades without reboots :P 14:52:15 GregorR: ksplice bitchnizzle 14:52:20 http://www.ksplice.com/ ! 14:52:46 It says it's just for Ubuntu, but it's a .deb, so. 14:52:58 http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/manualinstall 14:53:05 Guuuh ... this will let you change your KERNEL without reboot??? 14:53:07 Does Ksplice Uptrack support Kubuntu, Ubuntu Netbook Remix, and other Ubuntu variants or remixes? 14:53:08 Yes. All of these variants are built on the same core, including the same Linux kernel packages. Note that the automatic installer does not work well in KDE and some other desktop environments, so you may need to follow the manual installation instructions. Once installed, the graphical Ksplice Uptrack manager will work in all desktop environments. 14:53:12 GregorR: Yes. 14:53:15 Sometimes they need a patch, so you might be delayed by like a week. 14:53:16 But yes. 14:53:20 You don't have to restart X, even. 14:53:27 O_O 14:53:38 Judging by the website, I'm betting it's proprietary. 14:53:41 Of course, they don't mention Debian, so YMMV, but you have backups, right? 14:53:50 The Ksplice 0.9.8 utilities are available as an x86-32 binary distribution tarball, as an x86-64 binary distribution tarball, as a source code tarball, and in a Git repository. Old releases and GPG signatures are also available. 14:53:53 GregorR: Orally? 14:53:55 Nope, wrong. 14:54:01 Wowzers. 14:54:15 "Oh really" -> "ORLY" -> "Orally" = hilarious 14:54:22 Yes. 14:54:35 http://www.ksplice.com/example-update ;; Real kernel hackers develop in-place 14:54:46 -!- lambdabot has quit ("requested"). 14:54:53 Hahahah, bye lamdabot 14:54:54 FOREVER 14:54:55 D: 14:55:01 Ding dong, the lambdabot is dead. 14:55:06 "ksplice-undo — Undo a Ksplice update that has been applied to the running kernel" 14:55:10 "Oh shit, my kernel's broken!" 14:55:14 "I know, I'll just undo i— wait." 14:55:20 :P 14:55:24 Apparently not TOO broken. 14:55:53 from the homepage: "Experts agree that patching promptly is the most important practice for keeping systems secure." 14:55:54 No shit! 14:58:24 * ehird notes that if GregorR installs it, either it'll work perfectly by using the debian repositories, or by sheer luck of compatibility, or he'll have to remove it from a livecd. 14:58:36 On the other hand, WHO WANTS TO REBOOT 14:58:37 EVER 14:59:14 Rebooting is pretty lame. 15:00:27 I wonder how many people would call me insane for thinking that some Gnome software could and should be made even simpler. 15:01:06 So long as you keep "some" in there, fine. 15:01:12 I'll just continue not to use it :P 15:02:16 Unopinionated software sucked. 15:02:18 *sucks 15:02:29 Agreed! 15:02:38 `fortune -o 15:02:38 The only one of your children who does not grow up and move away \ is your husband. 15:02:47 No. That's not what I meant. :P 15:03:08 HackEgo: that's some incest. 15:03:14 `fortune -o 15:03:15 I am not a crook. \-- Richard Nixon 15:03:21 lol 15:03:22 Wow, that's… so offensive? 15:03:31 `fortune 15:03:31 One man's brain plus one other will produce one half as many ideas as one \ man would have produced alone. These two plus two more will produce half \ again as many ideas. These four plus four more begin to represent a \ creative meeting, and the ratio changes to one quarter as many ... \-- Anthony Chevins 15:03:33 I mean I'm outraged. 15:03:37 `fortune --help 15:03:38 No output. 15:03:40 gr. 15:03:42 `man fortune 15:03:43 No output. 15:03:47 FUCK YOU HACKEGO 15:03:53 GregorR: Can you put apt in the environment kthx 15:04:08 Hahaha, I should just give it a full chroot :P 15:04:18 please do :P 15:04:20 Anyway, apt wouldn't work under plash I suspect. 15:04:24 Worth a try. 15:04:26 Just a few lines, aye? 15:17:29 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:17:55 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 15:26:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Famous_apes // I think I should add a "It has been suggested that Category:Famous_people be merged into this article" box to this. 15:26:58 teehee 15:37:57 * Sgeo needs to come up with some project to make so he can practice using Django 15:38:15 Horrible idea: PSOX on the web 15:38:33 You mean ... sweet idea? 15:41:15 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:43:31 It would have a built-in Brainfuck interpreter, integrated with PSOX. People can submit brainfuck code and have it be run on the server 15:43:44 Erm, Brainfuck/PSOX code 15:48:18 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:10:21 Sgeo: write an Oracle game 16:10:34 There already is one 16:11:08 Unless you mean something else? 16:11:16 http://www.oraclebot.com/ exists >.> 16:11:21 So? 16:11:25 Write one anyway. 16:11:38 Use all the fancy Django authentication and stuff, of course. 16:11:51 Generic views too. 16:11:57 Of course, that's not exactly trivial. 16:12:03 Sgeo: to start off, follow the tutorial 16:12:13 I've worked on a Django project before 16:12:18 Tutorial. 16:12:19 Follow it. 16:12:26 It used authentication, but not generic views 16:12:32 Tutfolit. 16:12:43 I've read the tutorial before 16:12:53 Read it again to remind your fresh. 16:12:57 Refresh your mind, rather. 16:13:32 * Sgeo is reading a tutorial about AJAX and Django 16:13:52 Sgeo: I wonder why you ask things when you don't want an answer different to yours. 16:15:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:18:04 chairs are the wrong shape. 16:18:06 they're 16:18:08 |_ 16:18:10 they should be 16:18:13 | 16:18:15 / 16:18:20 except not that slanted 16:23:24 * oerjan isn't sure what that second shape means 16:23:39 i'll draw it 16:23:54 although i have seen chairs where you put your feet backwards 16:24:43 a friend had one, supposedly better for the back 16:25:11 i think the seat was slanted forward too 16:25:24 \ 16:25:29 / 16:25:43 ehird, um? I think you could turn this chair into either shape. It is one of those office chairs with too many levers. 16:26:14 oerjan, you mean it was set so it could tilt freely backwards/forwards? 16:26:29 i don't recall how adjustable it was 16:26:49 i don't think you could have the legs forwards 16:27:05 my chair has a lever to control free tilt/locket to position 16:27:08 http://imgur.com/uuxZz.png ← this but with less fucked up proportions; jsut the basic idea 16:27:12 also another grip at the top to hold you in 16:27:15 (you clamp them on) 16:27:19 (so, y'know, you don't fall out) 16:27:22 but that's the basic idea 16:27:36 i mean, obviously the top bit would bend back a bit more and the bottom wouldn't be as slanty blah blah 16:27:39 ehird, you have *really* short legs? 16:27:40 but you get the idea 16:27:45 :D 16:27:47 AnMaster: it's a fuckin' stick figure 16:27:48 :P 16:27:56 ehird, self portrait :P 16:28:03 the guy at the left has a reaaaaaaaaaaally long spine 16:28:03 well, not life-like of course 16:28:04 er 16:28:06 at the right 16:28:08 neck? 16:28:16 not spine right 16:28:17 ? 16:28:18 lol 16:28:24 AnMaster: no 16:28:27 if that was his neck 16:28:29 then his arms 16:28:37 hm wait 16:28:38 haha 16:28:40 shut up 16:28:42 it's a stick figure 16:28:43 you get the idea 16:28:44 ehird, his *arms* are down there 16:28:45 :P 16:28:54 AnMaster: yes but most of them are aligned with the spine 16:28:57 |-- shape 16:28:59 ehird, anway I can't go fully vertical in this chair, but quite close 16:29:15 AnMaster: does it have clamp things to hold you in? 16:29:33 ehird, close = about 30 degrees forward 16:29:37 if you see what I mean 16:29:46 not really but it doesn't matter :) 16:30:19 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:40:09 http://browsertoolkit.com/fault-tolerance.png 16:43:44 "In concert with users online across the country, this session will lead a flashmob to populate Stack Overflow with R language content." 16:43:53 Man, I forgot R was a programming language for a second. 16:44:08 lol 16:46:29 In the future, will http://djangogigs.com be a good way to look for a job? 16:46:47 I'll look in my crystal ball. 16:47:02 I mean, would it be considered a good way now? 16:47:14 How are we supposed to know? Ask in #django 16:47:47 The Y programming language is a small C-like programming language that is commonly used for peephole optimizers. // I read this as "pedophile optimizers" 16:48:14 We need more programming languages like that. 16:48:30 GregorR-L: Ssh. Dateline are watching. 16:48:41 Oh nose! 16:48:41 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 16:49:13 I hope they didn't **CHRIS HANSEN'S DISEMBODIED VOICE — Have a seat right there.** notice. 16:49:15 you keep having these nose problems. 16:49:24 oerjan: he's got no nose 16:49:27 he's longing for it 16:49:28 "Oh, nose!" 16:49:40 ah. 16:50:09 aka nose-talgy 16:50:48 >_< 16:51:10 A nose, a nose, my kingdom for a nose. 16:51:48 (GregorR-L actually still has his nose. His parents did that trick with the thumb to him as a kid and he's never looked in a mirror since out of shame.) 16:52:04 :'( 16:52:13 Your nose is not a '. 16:52:15 It's more a -. 16:52:17 That's a tear 16:52:32 :O( 16:52:32 :.( 16:52:45 Aprophetic monotony nonexistent moo. 16:53:37 Nose go moo? 16:53:38 "If you were using this for any decorative purpose (at least one package was, it turns out)" 16:53:40 lol 16:53:47 ? 16:54:05 http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/BackwardsIncompatibleChanges#Templatetagloadingrespectsdottednotation 16:54:14 FireFly: the nose was a cow-ard 16:54:15 That's a formidable URL. 16:54:25 Makes sense 16:54:32 Sgeo: but lol 16:54:45 really.pretty.name.module → module.py? 16:54:56 that's retarded, but relying on it for decoration is even more so 16:55:00 s/relying/using/ 16:55:19 BRB 17:06:07 Woah. 17:06:14 cvs can look like small-caps CVS. 17:06:22 (works best in Helvetica) 17:07:59 Whoa. 17:08:05 I know, right? 17:08:20 Someone said it on a slashdot comment thread and I wondered why it was smallcaps... but then it looked small... 17:08:28 then my eyes refocused and whoa, that's actually just lowercase. 17:08:30 (it = "cvs") 17:09:34 Answering machine messages should not be 50 seconds long 17:09:42 cosvwxz 17:09:51 They should be at least twenty-eight minutes long. 17:09:55 But with a warning at the beginning. 17:10:08 "If you really want to leave me a message, you're going to have to listen to this sex tape I made." 17:10:31 Answering machines should actually start recording as soon as you dial, but play a shocking, stupid and long message beforehand. 17:10:55 So all your messages go "... *drums fingers* ... *sigh* ... *gasp* ... beeeeeeep ... Uh, um ... Uh, hello, I was calling to see if" 17:11:41 If you're a person who rejects calls too often, you should put shocking secrets in your voicemail greeting to discourage yourself :P 17:12:00 xD 17:12:24 GregorR-L: How about a voicemail greeting that simulates more and more inappropriate conversation? 17:12:48 "Hi ... How've you been? ... Oh, that's good ... (lots of time passes)" 17:12:53 "I put on my robe and wizard hat." 17:12:56 lol 17:19:03 ehird, where is that quote from? 17:19:14 ...... your mom. 17:19:22 touché 17:19:24 Oh, do you mean "I put on my robe and wizard hat."? 17:19:28 ehird, indeed 17:19:37 Ye olde internet meme. 17:19:39 Here's a source: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/bloodninja 17:19:47 cyberfail? 17:19:48 huh 17:21:33 I never realized how often he killed his cyberpartner X-D 17:22:03 http://people.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/funny/bloodcyber.html appears to have many more. 17:22:05 (There are other examples out there, although probably any example of silly cybering gets the name replaced with "bloodninja" nowadays) 17:22:25 (same linguistic mannerisms so probably the same guy) 17:22:33 (i assume the albinoblacksheep one truncated it to the best) 17:24:32 MommyMelissa: What the f**k is this madlibs? I'm outta here. // lol 17:39:01 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 17:40:16 bloodninja is Doing It Wrong 17:40:21 but oh well 17:40:49 nescience: I think that is the point. 17:40:58 no, i mean he's baiting wrong :P 17:41:18 nescience: Past tense. Bloodninja was like early 2000. 17:41:22 *2000s. 17:41:25 whatever 17:41:53 http://myndzi.seckzi.com/patty <- site i rescued from internet demise 17:41:54 :P 17:42:17 What was the original URL? 17:42:27 gotta let them come to you then reel em in, like fishing! 17:42:40 pattythebaiter.com 17:42:49 there was also some personal homepage thing on an isp ural 17:42:50 url* 17:42:56 both are gone now i believe, and archive.org is spotty 17:43:00 i managed to piece everything together 17:43:10 might be missing a couple of the newest ones that were there 17:43:26 Ah, I was going to go check archive.org :P 17:44:19 Dude, the domain name is unowned! 17:44:21 You should buy it! 17:44:25 http://deardanno.tripod.com/ old site 17:44:39 http://goatse.ca/ old site 17:44:49 hmm it's squatted now 17:45:00 "I've been away for awhile, but Danno will be back with all new columns in May of 2001!" 17:46:08 Someone wrote in the guestbook in 2007 17:49:20 -!- graue has joined. 17:49:45 Wow, it's a graue. 17:49:58 hi, anyone know if there are still people archiving backups of the esolangs.org wiki? 17:50:02 We're likely to be eataen. 17:50:04 i messed it up and the latest backup doesn't work 17:50:11 graue: uh oh 17:50:12 maybe ais523 17:50:15 he's the type to do that 17:50:18 ais523@bham.ac.uk 17:50:33 graue: when's the previous backup? 17:50:38 last night 17:50:47 does that one work? :-P 17:51:04 well that's what i mean, it doesn't work 17:51:09 my server only keeps one backup 17:51:10 thus "previous backup" 17:51:11 ah 17:51:28 Hahaha, better hope ais saves the day :P 17:51:33 I've considered keeping backups, but then I didn't. 17:51:46 btw, hi you two 17:51:49 long time no chat 17:51:52 Heh 17:51:53 In what way does the backup not work? 17:51:59 (Mainly because I could never figure out where to download them...) 17:52:05 GregorR-L: The cynic inside me says that a backup from years ago would be no less valuable than the current one. ;-) 17:52:08 it uh, is still lacking the mw_objectcache table, which was crashed 17:52:10 A lot of rubbish langs out there. 17:52:13 graue: "cache" eh 17:52:17 sounds like you could rebuild it 17:52:32 in the past, i've fixed the mw_objectcache problem by truncating the table, and then it would work and rebuild the cache i guess 17:52:41 but this time i dropped it instead of truncating it 17:52:46 i don't know what the structure is supposed to be 17:52:50 hmm 17:52:55 Ask in a MediaWiki channel? 17:52:57 graue: grep -r 'objectcache' wiki/ 17:52:59 ? 17:52:59 `google "create table mw_objectcache" 17:53:00 *w/ 17:53:00 ... 数据`mw_math` -- -- -------------------------------------------------------- -- -- 表的结构`mw_objectcache` -- CREATE TABLE `mw_objectcache` ( `keyname` ... \ www.waibao51.com/ty.sql - [18]Cached - [19]Similar 17:53:04 or that 17:53:06 I'm betting something like that. 17:53:16 wow, that's a full db dumb of some iwki 17:53:18 wiki 17:53:25 So, the table structure will probably be right. 17:53:36 yep 17:53:39 generated 2009 so probably recent 17:53:51 graue: oh! also 17:54:11 graue: could you disable the spam-checker thing that stops loads? we couldn't even delete some spam because it was detecting our referer or something 17:54:17 ais523 had to disable referers to get to the delete page 17:54:23 and it was impossible to save any edits 17:54:27 has it actually got rid of any spam? 17:54:58 i'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time 17:55:07 :p 17:55:21 yaaay the wiki is fixed, you guys are smart 17:55:33 * GregorR-L flexes his ... brain? 17:55:40 #esoteric : Heros of the 2009 Esolang Wiki Crash 17:55:51 (At this point, GregorR-L, having self-lobotomised, becomes stupid.) 17:56:01 DAR DAR DAR 17:56:03 GregorR-L: Tragedy of the 2009 Esolang Wiki Crash 17:56:05 so what is the "spam-checker thing that stops loads"? 17:56:07 DAR DARRRRR 17:56:17 graue: like, you can't put
in a page or something 17:56:17 or "viagra" 17:56:22 also it checks referers and blocks pages I think? 17:56:25 maybe mod_security, it does things like that 17:56:43 the referer checking is a mod_security thing done by my web host, i remember fighting with it way back. i'm not sure if i can override it or not 17:56:46 but it just has a ton of false positives in my experience 17:56:52 graue: ahh. perhaps in .htaccess 17:56:57 i did the blocking of http://www.liewcf.com/blog/archives/2008/05/how-to-disable-mod_security-in-htaccess-file/ 17:57:04 which as i recall, did indeed stop a lot of spam 17:57:11 graue: the
you can just do The Python example on http://www.freewear.org/ is incorrect. There's an extraneous newline in that string 17:57:53 that's... nice, Sgeo? 17:58:01 Sgeo: #freewear 17:58:04 i don't even see a python sample. 17:58:23 "#I don't like Spam! 17:58:23 ' 17:58:37 that's not on the page. 17:58:52 o.O 17:59:04 graue: oops, I didn't highlight you when I said http://www.liewcf.com/blog/archives/2008/05/how-to-disable-mod_security-in-htaccess-file/ 17:59:09 in the .htaccess, dated november 2006... 17:59:12 — which I didn't click before pasting, maybe I should 17:59:22 "cvs " and "echo " are explicitly allowed (they were blocked i guess) in post payload 17:59:35 and " clearly not "viagra", though, which stops us fixing pages with viagra in the title :-P 17:59:55 i guess people want to use for legit formatting or something but like, a lot of spam was doing that, so 17:59:58 well, we could just disable referers again 18:00:07 show me a page with viagra in the title 18:00:11 graue: eh, 18:00:19 graue: sure thing — 18:00:26 uhh, where was it 18:00:31 graue: user called User:Viagra_free_something.com or the like 18:00:37 was there for days before we figured out it was referers 18:00:52 ah 18:01:55 So, incidentally, how does one download backups of the wiki? :P 18:02:05 Telepathy! 18:02:22 Also anthropomorphization. 18:02:28 You have to make the server into a person then steal its thoughts. 18:02:39 GregorR-L: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Wiki_preservation 18:02:42 from the front page, yo 18:03:18 graue: BTW, http://esolangs.org/wiki/ redirects to the voxelperfect url but other esolangs.org wiki addresses don't 18:03:21 oops, it lists a link hosted on my computer which has not existed for years 18:03:28 yeah that's just a quirk of apache 18:03:29 latest.sql.bz221-Jul-2009 15:25 18:03:29 http://calamari.reverse-dns.net:980/esowiki/ 18:03:38 ↑ Hooray if it hadn't worked? 18:03:45 or was that backup a dud too 18:04:09 looks like he too is only keeping one 18:04:33 http://calamari.reverse-dns.net:980/esowiki/mirror.png 18:04:36 great artistic talent there 18:04:57 highly 18:04:58 lol 18:05:16 i like how mirrorness is represented by blurriness and redness 18:05:21 we all know that's what mirrors do to their images 18:05:23 When life gives you lemons ... make oranges? 18:05:33 limes, you mean. when life gives you limes 18:05:35 Strangest oranges I've ever seen. Also, they're LIME. 18:05:43 * ehird hi5 graue *pedant buddies* 18:05:45 When life gives you limes ... make grapefruit? 18:06:10 When life gives you limes, sell them for a profit. 18:08:20 well, time to crawl back into my hole 18:08:35 be in touch if anything else gets messed up, or just to say hi 18:08:36 Alas, poor graue. I knew him … not so well. 18:08:40 -!- graue has quit ("Leaving"). 18:08:49 I wonder if he knows he hasn't actually given us a way to be in touch. 18:08:57 (Well, we could check his website, I guess. :P) 18:11:11 OK, I'm now backing up nightly into an hg repo. 18:11:32 So if such a situation arises again, I will not only have the latest, but a non-screwed up history :P 18:11:33 You are a true pygmy. 18:13:16 1.8K // this file has .2 of a byte. 18:15:30 Fun fact: This channel's logs total 68MB. 18:16:39 I present to you a bar chart of this channel's activity over time: ▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▂▁▂▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▂▂▁▃▂▂▁▂▄▂▂▂▃▃▄▃▄▅▅▆▄▄▄▆█▆ 18:16:59 The twitter version: 18:17:00 ▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▂▂▁▁▂▁▁▁▂▁▁▃▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▁▂▂▂▃▁▁▁▂▁▁▁▂▃▂▁▂▂▂▃▂▁▁▂▂▃▃▅▃▃▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▄▃▃▃▂▅▄▄▄▂▂▄▅▄▅▅▅▅▄▅▆▆▄▄▃▃▅▅▃▄▅▆▆▇█▆ 18:17:06 Hahahah, sweet. 18:17:16 I did that earlier this year, but I had the logs locally. 18:17:17 This time? 18:17:21 % w3m -dump http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | awk '{print $6}' | tail -n +22 | perl -ne 's/K/* 1024/; print int(eval($_) + .5), "\n"' | squish 140 | sparkline 18:17:33 "sparkline"? 8-D 18:17:41 Yuhuh. 18:17:46 My ASCII homage to Tufte. 18:17:59 Can has? 18:18:03 "squish" just "Compresses M values into N values." 18:18:09 GregorR-L: Sure. You can have both, because I'm so kind. 18:18:13 It's not quite "ASCII" though. 18:18:14 zomg 18:18:19 fizzie: Shushest, thou. 18:18:26 Hmm, wait. 18:18:32 My count is off. 18:18:36 It has the last line; "80 18:18:37 " 18:18:39 (Port 80) 18:18:49 * ehird head -n -1 (I think) 18:19:17 ▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▂▂▁▁▂▂▂▂▃▃▂▄▄▆▆▅▇█ 18:19:18 That's more like it. 18:19:23 ▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▂▂▁▁▂▁▁▁▂▁▁▃▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▁▂▂▂▃▁▁▁▂▁▁▁▂▃▂▁▂▂▂▃▂▁▁▂▂▃▃▅▃▃▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▄▃▃▃▂▅▄▄▄▂▂▄▅▄▅▅▅▅▄▅▆▆▄▄▃▃▅▅▃▄▅▆▆▇█▆ 18:19:25 Still a little dip. 18:19:33 Well, we need to fix that! 18:19:44 BLA BLA BLA 18:19:55 Forsooth, hereth I place mine words! 18:19:59 GregorR-L: Two programs IN ONE PASTE: http://pastie.org/private/yq6r572x0ba5yykdprhq 18:20:19 Note that the algorithm (if it can be called that) and chars for sparkline come from somebody's Ubiquity command somewhere. 18:20:24 But mine's more unix. 18:20:30 "Python 3000 is written in Ruby" --Guido* *May not be an exact quote 18:20:30 And it does both arguments and stdin! 18:20:33 Squish is the same! 18:20:37 Sgeo: Uhh, what? 18:20:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yU9FjrR2Ig 18:20:53 The exact quote is "Python 3000 is written in Python" :P 18:20:58 (J/K) 18:21:07 Sgeo: I'm not watching that 18:21:12 Well I might 18:21:48 Sgeo: that "joke" isn't even given context 18:21:49 or source 18:22:05 -!- coppro has joined. 18:22:45 http://picoup.com/-sized chart: 18:22:47 ▁▁▁▁▁▂▁▁▂▂▂▃▂▄▅▆▅▇ 18:23:10 your message is too long. remember, only 18 characters and 1 user reference. 18:23:11 >_< 18:23:17 it's counting 8-bit i think 18:23:20 That's pretty awesome. 18:24:00 oh, I list the ubiquity script in the source 18:24:01 "Based on http://gist.github.com/46562" 18:24:19 it's rather more verbose 18:25:57 I wonder why Smalltalk has dots 18:26:00 I think you can use newlines instead 18:26:05 but I guess that was too fuzzy for them 18:27:01 Because it's supposed to be vaguely like English, and that's how you end a sentence; 18:27:42 GregorR-L: True. 18:27:56 (I'm playing around with ideas for an Objective-C based Smalltalk because F-Script is kind of lame) 18:28:30 Well, Objective-C is probably the sanest implementation language. 18:28:45 pikhq: the point is using the environment 18:28:46 So little work involved in getting the object model working. 18:28:47 same object model etc 18:29:12 Basic thought process: Objective-C's cool, but most of the time you don't need the C parts, so why not just expand the brackets to cover the entire program? 18:29:17 ehird: Yeah; my point is that Objective-C's objects are a lot like Smalltalk's, so you don't need to fight the system. 18:29:22 Right. 18:29:22 ;) 18:29:31 Oooh. 18:29:36 F-Script already exists but, as I said, is sorta lame. 18:29:42 I don't know why, it just doesn't sit well with me. 18:29:48 Maybe I'm being unfair on it. 18:29:54 And to think, I'm just thinking of some nice Tcl code generation for C. 18:30:01 I don't think anyone actually writes apps in F-Script, though. 18:30:30 one of the nicest parts of objective-c is its way of doing addon methods 18:30:39 http://pastebin.ca/1503345 18:30:41 iirc it's like [obj myAddonMethod] is basically myAddonMethod_objsClass(obj) 18:30:48 i'm not sure if you can access instance vars 18:30:51 I don't think so 18:30:57 but it lets you just give a nicer name to helper stuff 18:31:14 pikhq: Drop the exclamation marks. Seriously. 18:31:23 Use [...]. 18:31:47 pikhq: Also, you realise almost all of that can be done as regular functions, right? 18:32:03 Or macros. 18:32:28 also, 18:32:30 -signal "destroy" {gtk_main_quit();}!; 18:32:33 g_signal_connect (window, "destroy", 18:32:33 G_CALLBACK (gtk_main_quit), NULL); 18:32:40 hope you got an optimizer for that, cuz that's not gonna scale as-is 18:32:47 (to non-function-calls) 18:32:48 actually 18:32:51 pikhq: that won't even work 18:32:55 it'll do gtk_main_quit(NULL); 18:34:16 ... Use [...]. But I don't want to have to actually parse C for this! 18:34:18 I wonder if it's possible to make a language where indentation-based block control can be optional 18:34:43 pikhq: you already have to 18:34:43 Trivial. 18:34:44 "!foo!" 18:34:50 coppro: haskell 18:35:03 hmm... really? 18:35:16 ehird: No, no. I just have to watch for \!. 18:35:19 yes, coppro. 18:35:22 pikhq: ewwww 18:35:26 i hate it already 18:35:36 I can't remember exactly why, but I recall haskell not being exactly what I wanted 18:35:36 You are a boilerplate lover. 18:36:09 pikhq: no, I just think most of it can be done by functions and macros and your syntax sucks 18:36:38 Just Tcl scripts that evaluate to a string that gets inserted in. Wheee. 18:36:51 ok just ignore me then 18:36:58 Hmm. Actually, [...] might be a better syntax. 18:37:38 Especially since in Tcl, [...] evaluates ... and inserts the resulting string in. 18:37:47 heh 18:38:16 Just need to do something to prevent it from evaluating array notation. 18:38:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:38:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:39:35 ABUDA 18:39:57 Also, that should totally be -signal "destroy" gtk_main_quit. 18:40:12 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 18:41:59 Who wants to use C, anyway? 18:44:58 lol@someone on reddit claiming that stopping breathing is death even if you're resuscitated 18:45:05 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/93e4e/help_my_cat_is_sick_and_i_dont_know_what_to_do_im/c0bae9h 18:45:34 ... I know of no reasonable person who states that you die upon ceasing to breath. 18:46:06 Quite. 18:46:11 pikhq: *breathe 18:47:34 Hah. Yeah. 18:54:41 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 18:58:09 pikhq: [[He had no heart beat or respiration for about a minute. He was, as the doctors say, dead. They resuscitated him with a defibrillator and he lived...]] 18:58:13 Does anyone want to tell him what death is? 18:58:19 I don't think he quite understands the concept. 19:02:03 Clinical death != death. 19:02:37 That being said, if he's revivable, that's a pretty sucky doctor who says "yeah, this guy's dead lol" 19:02:56 GregorR-L: Guy = cat :-P 19:03:09 s/doctor/vet/ 19:03:34 s/vet/unicorn/ 19:04:25 s/unicorn/strong, friendly AI/ 19:04:31 Hmm. 19:04:35 The unicorn is upgrading its brain. 19:04:36 The vet is helping. 19:18:52 "Rick Rocket has just saved the universe! Unfortunately, the massive destruction he left in his wake has caused a temporal anomaly that has reversed the flow of time. The player must assume control of Rick’s spacecraft and fight through the epic space battle... in reverse! Retro/Grade is an innovative game that fuses the white knuckle thrills and over the top visuals of a shooter with the broad appeal of a rhythm game. Players are forced to dodge enemy 19:18:54 projectiles while positioning the ship to be in the correct place to fire their lasers when their shots come back to them. For more information, check out our FAQ." 19:18:57 http://www.retrogradegame.com/ 19:19:43 -!- GregorR-L_ has joined. 19:20:57 -!- jix has joined. 19:21:12 * Sgeo wants to see a quine in COBOL 19:21:19 brb 19:21:33 http://www.tmdg.co.uk/programing/quine.cbl.php 19:21:49 NOT IN UPPERCASE 19:21:53 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?QuineProgramInCobol then 19:21:59 THANK YOU 19:22:30 Deewiant: from that guy's site: 19:22:31 "My pet hate is the constant argument in alt.cobol about whether C or COBOL is the best language. I am open minded about this. I have written a few polygot programs that will compile both via the GNU C compiler and Micro Focus COBOL compilers." 19:22:34 A man of compromise! 19:22:38 :-) 19:23:06 http://www.tmdg.co.uk/programing/quine.shell.php 19:23:12 That's a verbose way to write "cat $0" 19:23:29 #!/bin/sh 19:23:31 cat $0 19:23:33 :D 19:23:48 Of course, I've got a much nicer quine. 19:23:50 #!/bin/cat 19:23:50 Also not Bourne shell compatible 19:23:59 (Uses $() 19:24:11 Hmm, that looks horribly unbalanced 19:24:17 ) 19:24:18 s/)/))/ 19:24:19 Fixed. 19:24:20 Ahh 19:24:20 Argh 19:24:21 Shit 19:24:27 Now the whole WORLD is a syntax erro 19:24:27 r 19:24:31 s/)$// 19:24:32 Wait. 19:24:34 Fixed 19:24:39 Deewiant: you can't change my lines! 19:24:43 You just made yours unbalanced again 19:24:44 ... 19:24:46 thus making mine balance it out 19:24:47 No 19:24:47 :-D 19:24:49 Yes 19:24:50 :-) 19:24:51 he 19:24:53 *hee 19:25:05 It doesn't matter which line got modified either time 19:25:05 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 19:25:24 Darn, if graue was still here we'd have a fistful o' Gr's. 19:25:48 But unfortunately not dollars. 19:26:07 And super-unfortunately not pounds or euros. 19:26:28 But fortunately not ZW$s. 19:26:33 (Prounounced "Zimbabwe bucks") 19:33:06 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:36:00 -!- GregorR-L_ has changed nick to GregorR-L. 19:36:09 pikhq: GregorR-L: [[No, the VET who freakin TOLD me the CAT had DIED, did not attempt to issue a death certificate or officially call the time of death, but, then...he's a CAT and the LEGAL definition of death as it relates to humans DOES NOT REALLY MATTER in the casual conversational sense that I used it in...I'll use quotes next time and give you the vets number so you can argue medical semantics with HIM.]] 19:36:36 Translation: "And if he says my kitty has DIED when he doesn't BREATHE for a few seconds after a BAD COUGH, then THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE IT'S CASUAL CONVERSATION FUCK YOU AND ALL YOU STAND FORRRRRRRRRR" 19:41:55 ehird: Dumbness. 19:48:53 Who spells webmaster as "webmastr"? 19:49:00 A typoer. 19:49:04 Typoist. 19:49:29 It's spelled that way in both the image containing the email address and the mailto link 19:49:38 The person is an idiot. 19:50:09 Which, come to think of it, is a bit strange, using an image when spammers can get the address from the mailto link anyway 19:50:21 Oh, btw, this is on the website for a college 19:50:30 Idiot. 19:50:37 It's 8 chars 19:50:43 Idiot College of Mississippi 19:50:46 Deewiant: No, seriously, no. 19:50:48 May be a limitation/arbitrary choice 19:50:53 No, they're not using 8.3 files to store usernames. 19:50:54 NO. 19:51:01 It doesn't have to be that 19:51:18 It can be DECLARE @username AS VARCHAR(8) 19:51:21 Or whatever 19:51:25 >_< 19:51:34 Nobody's that idiotic … apart from the guy who'd spell it "webmastr". 19:51:40 That isn't strictly speaking that stupid 19:51:41 Well, there's another email address that is more then 8 characters 19:51:47 If they're all internal usernames 19:51:54 You won't need more than 8 chars 19:51:55 orientation@ 19:52:03 Well, then it's just silly 19:52:07 Oh well :-P 19:52:17 What's the point of the image? 19:52:37 I mean, besides being nicely inaccessible 19:52:38 idiocy 19:52:54 eh, they might pronounce the URL :-P 19:52:56 Probably do 19:53:00 or not 19:53:33 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:53:37 The image also contains the address of the college, and the phone number 19:53:44 So much for blind students 19:54:01 are you going to this college? 19:54:02 Don't. 19:54:04 ehird, I am 19:54:10 Well, don't. :P 19:54:35 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 19:55:10 * Sgeo likes being the best student in computer programming/information systems >.> 19:55:27 I am planning on transfering out at some point 19:55:34 Sgeo: But that implies a high probability of being better than your processor :-P 19:55:35 ... 19:55:36 professor. 19:56:13 ehird, unfortunately, is not. 19:56:23 Also, they could be using AT&T Unix SysV R4 on their email servers. 20:09:25 Well, I finally got the email from the college that I was supposed to receive, and was incessintly trying to call them about 20:20:03 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 20:21:16 failcaptcha: 20:21:20 faxzero.com 20:21:53 Eh, it's a little bit better than no CAPCHA maybe? 20:22:48 the best captcha is
(Spam trap; leave blank)
20:22:51 and check it's empty 20:22:58 works every time 20:23:05 ehird, unless that starts catching on 20:23:24 Sgeo: it's been researched; spambots only look at foo@bar.com email addresses 20:23:28 because that's enough 20:23:29 seriously 20:23:34 so 20:23:39 no, i doubt that's likely 20:23:48 Sgeo: and some forms require email 20:23:49 you can't tell 20:23:56 they'll just go back to the ol' "get people to fill it in manually" 20:24:00 which is more or less impossible to stop 20:24:06 so... this is the best way 20:24:34 I'd imagine that faxzero in particular might be targetted 20:24:44 whatever 20:24:45 i doubt it 20:24:51 So it can't just rely on a captcha that only works because no one's targetting it 20:24:58 uh dude 20:25:02 that's what all captchas rely on 20:25:04 o dpm 20:25:07 *i don'th 20:25:08 *don't 20:25:12 think there's an existing captcha 20:25:13 that is both 20:25:18 (a) doable by humans 20:25:23 (b) has been given effort and yet 20:25:26 (c) has not been broken 20:26:39 So recaptcha hasn't been given enough effort yet? Seems like it would be the best thing for spammers to target, imo 20:27:02 (a) people may be working on it (b) you don't know if it's been broken 20:27:33 Sgeo: nowadays they pay indian guys to fill out captchas all day long 20:27:34 google t 20:27:34 it 20:27:37 nothing can stop that 20:29:02 Bye for now all 20:31:41 `google pay indian guys to fill out capchas all day long 20:31:42 There are a lot that I can't make out at all. The other day I tried an ..... Once you've got a few characters you can then reference a dictionary to fill in the ones you can't recognise. ..... The bottom line is, as long as people are willing to pay, ..... So that is where the cheap hired Indian labor comes in. ... 20:32:20 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 20:34:58 http://bothole.appspot.com/ is interesting 20:35:08 Takes too much thought though :P 20:35:11 20:31 GregorR-L: `google pay indian guys to fill out capchas all day long 20:35:11 20:31 HackEgo: There are a lot that I can't make out at all. The other day I tried an ..... Once you've got a few characters you can then reference a dictionary to fill in the ones you can't recognise. ..... The bottom line is, as long as people are willing to pay, ..... So that is where the cheap hired Indian labor comes in. ... 20:35:15 That doesn't look like, uh 20:35:18 google results. 20:35:48 The result text was too long so the URL didn't show :( 20:36:30 I just had two failed attempts in getting one, wtf. 20:38:06 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2B3Uu8q-HL._AA280_.jpg <-- it just gave me this image. One word: "wtf?" 20:38:40 haha what 20:38:45 GregorR-L: did you put in "wtf" 20:38:54 Yes. It did not accept that response :P 20:38:56 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/315nB%2B1gFsL._SL500_AA280_.jpg ← um… 20:39:08 "pogo stick" put me on to a new one 20:39:11 so i guess that's godo or something 20:39:18 "phallic" 20:39:29 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5157B9GSPWL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg ← apparently this isn't "poverty" 20:39:40 Hahaha 20:39:47 http://images.cafepress.com/product/183032245_240x240_Front.jpg ← not a proud marine mom 20:40:03 http://images.cafepress.com/product/33891001_240x240_Front.jpg ← methinks it repeats too much 20:40:14 Man, I'm on a roll! 20:41:36 Also, "bothole" just sounds so wrong :P 20:41:49 whats the S combinator again?? 20:41:55 augur: google it 20:42:02 Sxyz = xz(yz)? 20:42:10 yes 20:42:15 wow. 20:42:17 then 20:42:26 GregorR-L: http://images.cafepress.com/product/90311100_240x240_Front.jpg ← tshirt... briefs... thing... evil mutant chimera item of clothing 20:42:29 that operator plays a hugely important part in natural language syntax 20:42:40 >_< It didn't accept "sock" for a sock 20:42:42 augur: :-D 20:43:08 there are constructions like "file without reading", as in "the article which I filed without reading" 20:43:22 and in order to explain that construction, you need something equivalent to S 20:43:52 ha 20:44:01 augur: s/file/filed/ yes 20:44:02 ? 20:44:15 the tense in these cases is irrelevant 20:44:21 the important part is the syntactic types 20:44:58 file : NP -> VP; reading : NP -> VP; without : VP -> VP -> VP 20:45:11 augur: those types seem ... simplistic 20:45:17 but what do NP and VP stand for 20:45:24 noun phrase, verb phrase 20:45:42 without reading : NP -> VP -> VP, by function composition: reading.without 20:46:05 er.. without.reading 20:46:06 x3 20:46:18 augur: S is also liftM2 id. ... For all the monads, not just functions. >:D 20:46:20 and then to get file to join with without.reading 20:46:23 you need 20:46:32 augur: reading returns a verb? 20:46:34 hm i guess so 20:46:38 reading NOUN 20:46:42 just tense stuff 20:46:43 well, reading returns a verb phrase 20:46:48 yuh 20:46:50 reading itself is a verb 20:46:59 and then to get file-without-reading 20:47:19 you need to S together file, and reading 20:47:23 well 20:47:26 file, and without.reading 20:47:44 S(file)(without.reading) : NP -> VP 20:47:49 augur: so linguistics is point free then :P 20:48:01 to an extent 20:48:33 file-without-reading is NP->VP, and we can combine that with a bunch of other stuff to get which-i-will-file-without-reading : N\N 20:48:37 er.. N -> N 20:48:44 is there like a branch of linguistics handling how to parse horribly broken language :P 20:48:49 and then apply that to "articles" to get N 20:48:56 ehird: no. 20:49:03 well tha's silly. 20:49:20 Spam subject line: "Pump in your lady stronger obstructionist retailer" 20:49:32 Spamusement! 20:49:45 I put in the suggestion bin :P 20:49:50 But nobody listens to my suggestions :( 20:49:59 I haven't drawn one in a while ... this one is too wtf for me to draw anyway. 20:50:02 GregorR-L: Note that the last Spamusement comic is from June 2007. 20:50:08 And the one before that October 2006. 20:50:17 ehird: Go to the forums and be enlightened. 20:50:24 o 20:50:26 is there like 20:50:27 moar 20:50:38 ehird: you might want to read this book on CCG 20:50:40 its like 20:50:42 like by other people or whatever 20:50:44 SKI for language. 20:50:46 Not by the original author, no, but there are a lot of ultra-hilarious others. 20:50:52 well, more Birds for language 20:50:52 but 20:51:09 Fun fact: I knew of Spamusement and Steven Frank-as-mac-developer independently but did not correlate. 20:51:12 NEXT TIME ON FUN FACTS: 20:51:14 I am a Walrus. 20:51:18 DUN DUN DUN JINGLE 20:51:27 kookoo kachoo kakookoo ka choooooo 20:51:38 i love that song 20:51:44 augur: Goo goo g'joob. 20:51:50 shut your face 20:51:51 20:52:05 Goo goo blow job. 20:54:28 afk making pizza dough :o 20:54:46 Making pizza; D'oh. 21:03:50 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 21:20:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:20:42 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:25:00 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:25:10 -!- augur has joined. 21:37:04 guys 21:37:07 i have a hypothesis 21:37:31 cool 21:37:54 I have an implementation of hq9+ in Haskell, because I was really freaking bored. 21:38:04 the fundamental laws of the universe are the way they are because they are possible within a system that has no notion of "simultaneous" 21:39:13 the only time-related notions that we /know/ the universe has is causal connections 21:39:32 if one event caused another event, then the causing event preceded the caused event 21:39:45 but if two events are mutually causally exclusive, they have no time ordering 21:39:55 neither happened before or after or at the same time as the other 21:40:11 deep 21:40:21 so my conjecture is that the universe is built around trying to work within this system 21:41:03 causality is suspect :) 21:41:06 I have no idea if that conjecture has any useful conclusions. 21:41:17 * GregorR slaps ehird. 21:41:17 GregorR: the conclusion im drawing from it is 21:41:21 If that hurt, causality is not suspect. 21:41:49 The universe is designed to run multithreaded in a completely safe fashion. 21:41:50 HURR SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE AND INTUITIVE NOTIONS APPLY TO THE FUNDAMENTAL LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE 21:42:11 :P 21:54:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:56:49 wow, thedailywtf.com just linked to esolang 21:57:09 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Programming-Praxis-Russian-Peasant-Multiplication.aspx 21:57:20 augur: Clearly. After all, data only propogates one lightsecond per lightsecond; that makes for some highly data-parallel computing. 21:57:41 one lightsecond per second, you mean? :P 21:57:47 Erm. Yes. 21:57:58 ais523: that's fucking stupid 21:57:58 "There is no language restriction, though anything on the esoteric language list will probably be ignored." 21:58:04 lightsecond/second = light 21:58:04 "DO THIS STUPID TASK FOR NO REASON" 21:58:07 information propogates very fast, yes. 21:58:09 "BUT MAKE SURE IT'S NOT A QUEEEEEEEEEEESTION" 21:58:11 data travels at 1 light 21:58:12 bsmntbombdood_: Point. 21:58:14 er 21:58:21 s/QUE+STION/CHAAAAAAAALLENGE/ 21:58:32 god i hate tdwtf 21:58:37 augur: No, light is pretty damned slow. 21:58:37 bsmntbombdood_: in general parlance, "light" is shorthand for multiple-of-c 21:58:49 augur: erm no 21:58:52 i always hear "3 lightspeed" 21:58:53 etc 21:59:00 ehird, yes, but you also hear light. 21:59:07 no, you hear sound 21:59:07 Light is neither fast nor slow, it is the reference speed :P 21:59:07 as in, we're travelling at five kilolight 21:59:07 not light 21:59:14 GregorR: it's the fastest speed 21:59:26 Fine, fine. 21:59:37 ehird: Nothing in relativity prevents tachyons from existing, it just prevents them from having any effect on us whatsoever. 21:59:41 Data travels at 1L/T. 21:59:48 if its the fastest speed, surely C must then be the time-between-computations on the parallel computer that runs the universe! 21:59:51 (Planck units FTW) 21:59:56 GregorR: All backwards tachyons can be "reimagined" as forwards ones, no? 22:00:03 GregorR: actually tachyons DO exist 22:00:08 So it's only going at the speed of light for some sort of definition of that. 22:00:09 if they existed, they would move backwards in time 22:00:16 augur: uh, there's no proof they exist or don't. 22:00:24 augur is a tachyonic being. 22:00:29 but if they moved backwards in time, then they would move backwards from OUR perspective 22:00:32 me too, GregorR! 22:00:35 as they moved forwards in their perspective 22:00:53 and they would have time-reversed properties like charge 22:01:04 antimatter is just matter moving at super-light speeds 22:01:15 ... 22:01:17 ... 22:01:22 augur: your theories are, how shall we put this 22:01:22 :o 22:01:24 unsupported by evidence 22:01:39 actually, ehird, im merely making random connections between antimatter and tachyons 22:01:43 I don't think I've ever laughed more at the phrase "unsupported by evidence" :P 22:01:49 its common in physics to view antimatter as normal matter moving backwards in time 22:01:59 ais523: That "challenge" is really stupid. 22:02:05 GregorR: :P 22:02:12 pikhq: agreed 22:02:15 The C++ *template* implementation is a one-liner. 22:02:16 im sure if slereah were here he'd back me up on this 22:02:20 but it may drive a bit more challenge to esolang 22:02:24 *a bit more traffic 22:02:34 augur: plz provide a sourcey source. 22:02:37 sauce. 22:02:43 I have never heard of antimatter being viewed as time-reversed matter, especially since that makes no sense w.r.t. causality, entropy, ... 22:02:55 gregorr: but it does! :o 22:02:57 i have, in like 22:03:03 the specific place 22:03:06 of feynman diagrams 22:03:10 templatestruct r{static const int s=b?r::s+b%2*c:0;}; 22:03:18 yeah. its feynman diagram things. 22:03:20 i think. 22:04:20 which is like all i know and i don't know to what degree it's rigorous 22:04:21 from wiki: "Each line of a diagram represents a particle propagating either backward or forward in time. This technique is the most widespread method of computing amplitudes in quantum field theory today." 22:04:28 because the point of feynman diagrams is they're not rigorous 22:04:37 they're a tool for doing the rigorous QED which is hard 22:04:48 pthing: they're conventionalized ways of computing perturbations for QED 22:04:58 yes right 22:05:19 ok so according to wiki 22:05:39 an antiparticle can be gotten from a positive particle from "applying the charge conjugation (C), parity (P), and time reversal (T) operators" 22:05:41 At the quantum level, lots of things can be viewed meaningfully in a time-reversed frame. And yet, antimatter eggs no more unscramble themselves than matter eggs. 22:06:13 gregorr: real eggs unscramble themselves all the time! 22:06:42 the thing about entropy is that its a statistical law, atleast at the scales we normally talk about 22:06:43 I see augur films eggs being scrambled and puts the film in a projector backwards. 22:06:46 All the time. 22:06:59 augur: Yes. And? 22:07:07 * GregorR eats some delicious antimatter eggs. 22:07:16 * GregorR 's mouth is annihilated in a fierce explosion. 22:07:29 OH SHI... 22:07:37 and saying that normal eggs dont unscramble themselves is not entirely correct, because its only incredibly statistically unlikely, not impossible. 22:07:53 * pikhq has a spontaneous existential failure, like everyone else on the hemisphere 22:08:21 GregorR: you know, i'm fairly sure those antimatter eggs exploded as soon as they came across their good ol' friend "air" 22:08:42 ehird: He lives in a vacuum. 22:08:49 ehird: they might explode, but maybe not 22:09:06 augur: shut up, you're not a physicist, you're a bullshittist :) 22:09:16 the surface area of the egg exposes only a small amount of the mass of the egg 22:09:55 huh, canvas has been around since 2004 22:10:33 its possible that the surface annihilation would create enough radiation that the air around the egg gets blasted away in a minor explosion leaving a vacuum 22:10:33 augur: who cares? there are enough molecules on the surface to cause a massive explosion as-is 22:10:42 before, ofcourse, collapsing back in and starting it again. 22:11:00 ais523: but is there? its hard to know how much will actually react 22:11:26 how much does a one-atom-thick eggshell of carbon weigh? a gram? probably not even remotely close. 22:11:41 essentially its graphene with the same area as the eggs surface 22:11:51 i doubt itd weigh much more than a few micrograms 22:12:09 22:11 augur: how much does a one-atom-thick eggshell of carbon weigh? a gram? probably not even remotely close. 22:12:19 ...serious? 22:12:19 the explosion might destroy a town, but probably not a hemisphere 22:12:23 ehird: serious. 22:12:25 i mean are you serious 22:12:30 like are you SERIOUS 22:12:36 do you have calculations for the mass of the graphene, ehird? 22:12:42 no :P 22:12:47 well ok then! 22:12:50 we can find out tho 22:13:09 ehird: The amount of explosion from contact with air is proportional to the surface mass of the egg. ;) 22:13:20 (surface mass. :D) 22:13:49 interesting! 22:13:52 but 22:13:54 all this energy 22:13:56 graphene is very light 22:13:59 somehow doesn't break the egg 22:14:03 >1g/cm^3 22:14:04 doesn't vaporise the egg 22:14:10 pthing: it would compress it more likely 22:14:16 given that its radial, or roughly so 22:14:32 break it 22:14:34 what you'd really want is to deposit matter into the CENTER of the egg 22:14:47 which would cause the egg to explode outwards into tiny pieces 22:15:00 which would create more massive secondary explosions due to increased surface area 22:15:27 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:16:21 -!- coppro has joined. 22:17:47 augur: The simplest way to do this involves acceleration of either the egg or the antimatter. 22:17:52 Oh, wait. Antiegg. 22:17:57 Acceleration of matter. 22:18:06 Like, say, a rock. 22:18:41 lets say a perfectly spherical Ideal Cow 22:19:13 ok so graphene layers are apparently 0.34nm thick. at lets say 2 g cm^-3 density, that makes it (2 g cm^-3)*(3.4e-8 cm^3) = 6.8e-8 g of antiegg 22:20:42 according to http://www.edwardmuller.com/right17.htm 22:20:51 that should be an explosion of 22:21:18 2.92128 kilograms of dynamite 22:21:40 or maybe thats 2.92128 pounds of dynamit. either way! 22:22:59 infact, the site there says a whole pound of antimatter would only release 19.5 megatons of energy 22:23:18 meaning the egg wouldnt even destroy the whole STATE gregorr is in nevermind the whole hemisphere 22:23:50 Not even the whole state! 22:24:05 or whatever gregor is in :p 22:24:14 i dont know where he is, im assuming hes in The Average American State 22:24:49 a perfectly circular fictional state with an area equal to precisely the average of all american states xp 22:25:57 see, this is what you get for talking fictional explosions with someone who routinely discussed the merits of the Star Trek vs Star Wars debate 22:26:22 or its broader incarnation, the X vs Y debate for some X, Y in scifi. 22:26:25 dude, you think antimatter is going back in time. 22:26:40 well it is! its time reversed, charge-reverse normal matter 22:26:46 this is the standard quantum mechanical interpretation 22:26:47 -_- 22:27:00 theres no distinction between time reversed charge reversed positive matter, and antimatter 22:28:14 antimatter as time-reversed positive matter doesnt create paradoxes 22:28:22 so theres no reason not to think of it that way 22:29:57 after all, time itself is generally treated as just another dimension, presumably one which obeys certain laws of how the things that extend through it can relate to one another structurally, but other than that 22:34:12 so uh 22:34:17 3 kilos of dynamite 22:34:21 http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40534000/jpg/_40534689_toastie-afp203.jpg ← This was sold for $28,000. 22:34:22 kilograms. 22:34:25 Guess why without googling. 22:34:26 not going to crush/vaporise an egg? 22:34:32 just, how did you put it 22:34:34 compress it slightly 22:34:36 pthing: well itll definitely destroy it 22:34:42 itll mostly compress it 22:34:50 where by compress 22:34:52 you mean crush 22:34:54 break 22:34:57 but mostly compress 22:34:58 partially vaporise 22:35:01 No? 22:35:03 I'll tell you. 22:35:04 definitely splatter everywhere 22:35:08 It apparently has the Virgin Mary on it. 22:35:10 Can you see Mary? 22:35:14 I can't. 22:35:20 but remember, pthing, its happing radially, outside the egg 22:35:40 i still don't see how this stops fragments and blobs of antimatter reacting 22:36:00 there's enough activation energy there to make it go off like a cluster bomb 22:36:39 it doesnt, it just prevents it from happening RIGHT away by compressive the egg while the air around it is blown away in the initial explosion 22:36:54 when the egg rebounds from the compression, and the air rebounds in, itll go even bigger 22:36:54 so what, it goes back in a second 22:37:09 sure! 22:37:10 probably less 22:37:16 more like a millisecond 22:37:16 then big fucking deal 22:37:42 its just a point of fact! 22:40:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:42:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:43 D: 22:43:08 hey. 22:48:26 hey 22:50:17 Hey! 23:18:05 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:24:07 hey 23:24:15 Hey? 23:24:18 -!- fungebob has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"). 23:26:15 pong 23:31:56 -!- augur has changed nick to antiaugur. 23:31:57 ping 23:32:02 -!- antiaugur has changed nick to augur. 23:47:52 I want some Yu Wan Mei Miscellaneous Tasty Paste :( 23:49:17 I want the Yu Wan Mei Device. 23:49:23 It has been completed and is now available for sale . 23:49:28 s/ \././ 23:51:55 LOL 23:51:57 GregorR: http://pastebin.com/m1d114cb0 23:52:02 The feature list of the Yu Wan Mei Device! 23:52:58 Wow 23:53:11 GregorR: The guy who bought it (for $4,300) by mistake got a feature list 23:53:13 So it's definitely real 23:53:13 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/92u42/the_onion_sells_out_to_china/c0b9qw7 23:53:22 It requires a lot of batteries. 23:54:07 LOL 23:54:24 I hope he doesn't cancel it, I want to see what they do :-) 23:54:51 "Red blinking lights, randomly accompanied by loud siren noise" 23:54:53 Sweet! 23:54:57 I know right! 23:55:04 It also has an antenna. 23:55:17 Presumably, it listens and logs all information received from it in an inaccessible part of memory. 23:55:18 And a heat generator! 23:55:21 And does not act on it. 23:55:31 GregorR: The edges might be sharper than the Palm Pre. 23:55:32 OH SNAP 23:55:38 (http://gizmodo.com/5279413/palm-pre-cuts-the-cheese) 23:57:00 http://www.yuwanmei.com/img/yuwanmei_broiled_shark_gums_large.jpg ← I wonder what gums taste like. 23:57:58 That is quite the assortment of batteries :P 23:58:04 Yes. 23:58:19 Can you get AAAA batteries? 23:58:23 AAAAA? 23:58:45 Not to my knowledge. There are batteries that are half the size of a AAA, but they're not called AAAA (they're half the height, otherwise they're the same)