00:11:39 Paint it. 00:11:42 With YOUR OWN BLOOD. 00:11:45 no 00:13:58 Paint it ... 00:14:02 With somebody else's blood? 00:14:07 paint it with semen! 00:14:25 Whose? :P 00:14:26 you sure you want to do that again? 00:14:36 GregorR: I mean sailors, sheesh. 00:14:39 Robdgreat: do… what? 00:14:47 Say semen? 00:14:51 ehird: On the Internet, everybody can see you spell :P 00:15:10 Robdgreat: What do I need to be sure about whether I'm doing?! 00:15:16 no, paint it with semen 00:15:23 Oh. 00:15:30 …I've done that in the past? 00:15:36 Paint it with seaman semen? 00:15:44 traumatic amnesia, clearly 00:15:54 GregorR: Or mushroom mushroom 00:17:23 wow the TNN 500AF looks like it can handle a lot 00:17:31 solid state cooling is <3 00:18:13 `quote MUSSOLINI 00:18:14 34|SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! 00:18:24 Yeeeeeees? 00:20:09 now why the heck are they speaking spanish and not italian? 00:20:54 `translate SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! 00:20:56 IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE (WHEN MUSSOLINI WINS WORLD): <ehird> i can only conclude that it is defective, or the world is absolutely insane. All glory to Il Duce! 00:21:10 `translateto it IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE (WHEN MUSSOLINI WINS WORLD): i can only conclude that it is defective, or the world is absolutely insane. All glory to Il Duce! 00:21:12 IN UN SUPPLENTE UNIVERSO (QUANDO MUSSOLINI WINS MONDO): <ehird> posso solo concludere che č difettoso, o il mondo č assolutamente folle. Tutti gloria a Il Duce! 00:22:31 ehird: >R >R R@ R> R@ - - R@ R> - 00:22:37 oklopol: god that's beautiful 00:22:41 oklopol: post it as a comment 00:22:49 err 00:22:50 sure 00:23:09 it's swap right? 00:23:09 should be 00:23:23 `translateto it Come on baby, get on the floor, everybody do the dinosaur! 00:23:24 Vieni bambino, arrivare sul pavimento, non tutti i dinosauri! 00:23:40 `translate Vieni bambino, arrivare sul pavimento, non tutti i dinosauri! 00:23:42 Come on baby, get on the floor, not all dinosaurs! 00:23:45 xD 00:23:53 oklopol: i think there's an error 00:23:54 So close, and yet so far :P 00:23:56 yes 00:23:59 it seems there is :| 00:24:06 hmm hmm. 00:24:32 GregorR: i've just finished laughing at "not all dinosaurs" 00:24:36 thanks for that 00:25:04 `translateto kr My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:25:06 My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:25:08 ...... 00:25:11 Korean, you stupid HackEgo. 00:25:15 Heh 00:25:26 `translateto ko My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:25:28 내 호버 뱀장어으로 가득 차있다. 00:25:28 Hungarian would be more interesting 00:25:32 `translate 내 호버 뱀장어으로 가득 차있다. 00:25:33 ë, 'í ~ ¸ ë ² "ë ± € ìž ¥ ì-'ìœ ¼ ë ¡œ ê ° € ë" ì ° ¨ ìžë <¤. 00:25:38 Fail 00:25:40 GregorR: kinda broken fail 00:25:45 also, kinda unescape html fail 00:25:50 `translateto hu My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:25:51 Saját légpárnás tele van angolnából. 00:25:55 Hm 00:25:58 `translate Saját légpárnás tele van angolnából. 00:25:59 Saja la t ĄĄŠ GPa RNA and is full of eels ĄĄba ł l. 00:26:15 Well, that worked well 00:26:15 . 00:26:18 Yes, it has issues POSTING unicode. 00:26:19 s/\n\././ 00:26:33 * oerjan wonders why that contains "angol", which means english iirc 00:26:36 GregorR: Also, " and < and > are left escaped. 00:26:39 Now then, correction: 00:26:45 `translate angolnából 00:26:47 angoln谩b贸l 00:26:55 oerjan: pejorative insult, obviously 00:27:00 english = eels 00:27:02 `translateto it Open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk the dinosaur! 00:27:04 Apri la porta, ottenere sul pavimento, a piedi tutti i dinosauri! 00:27:09 `translate angol nyelv 00:27:10 English Language 00:27:12 `translate Apri la porta, ottenere sul pavimento, a piedi tutti i dinosauri! 00:27:14 Open the door, get on the floor, walk all the dinosaurs! 00:27:21 hahahaha 00:27:46 Woooh, walk all the dinosaurs. 00:28:06 laughter #2 complete 00:28:08 on their feet, all the dinosaurs 00:28:31 `translateto ko Open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk to the dinosaur! 00:28:32 , 바닥에 문 열어, 공룡을 모두 도보로! 00:28:36 Nice comma. 00:28:37 `translate , 바닥에 문 열어, 공룡을 모두 도보로! 00:28:39 , Ë ° "ë <¥ ì-ë ¬ ¸ ì-'ì-', ê ³ μë £ ¡ì" ë ª ¨ ë' ë "ë ³ 'ë ¡œ! 00:28:42 Meh. 00:28:47 `translateto fi Open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk to the dinosaur! 00:28:49 Avaa ovi, pההstה lattialle, kaikki kהvelymatkan pההssה dinosaurus! 00:28:58 That's sort of more Hebrew than I'd like. 00:29:03 I was thinking more along the lines of Finnish. 00:29:06 `translate Avaa ovi, pההstה lattialle, kaikki kהvelymatkan pההssה dinosaurus! 00:29:07 Avaa ovi, p × "×" st × "lattialle, kaikki k ×" velymatkan p × "×" ss × "dinosaurus! 00:29:14 Dinosaurus :D 00:29:33 `translateto he I forget if 'he' is Hebrew ... 00:29:35 אם אני שוכח 'הוא' היא עברית ... 00:29:52 `translateto sw Hello, world! 00:29:53 No output. 00:29:54 "#39&" :P 00:29:55 Hm 00:29:57 `translateto sv Hello, world! 00:29:58 `translateto se Hello, world! 00:29:58 No output. 00:29:59 Hej, världen! 00:30:02 Meh, se 00:30:05 `transalteto se Are you looking for Swedish? 00:30:06 No output. 00:30:13 "transalte" X_X 00:30:14 `translateto se My cousin is a meerkat of strange angles. 00:30:14 salt 00:30:15 My cousin is a meerkat of strange angles. 00:30:22 * ehird claps 00:30:28 FireFly: I thought "salt" was the output for a scond :D 00:30:34 Heh :P 00:30:35 *escond 00:30:36 ........ 00:30:37 *second 00:30:42 of course just echoing it isn't much better 00:30:56 ah, apparently angolna is hungarian for eel 00:31:12 Angol angolna! 00:31:23 `translate angol angolna 00:31:25 English eel 00:31:37 LOL 00:31:40 That's too hilarious for words. 00:32:48 :D 00:32:53 http://imgur.com/8cMmA.jpg 00:34:08 Uhh 00:34:27 GregorR: it was made in ms paint by a redditor guy. 00:34:35 Other shit: http://www.reddit.com/r/mspaint/ 00:38:28 ("Shit" being in the bad meaning here, on second thoughts :P) 00:38:34 (Probably.) 00:40:12 GregorR: it gets even better, angolnák can apparently mean either english or eels, at least google uses both when i experiment 00:40:34 `translate angolnák angolnák 00:40:35 angolnรกk angolnรกk 00:40:45 No, HackEgo. 00:40:46 No. 00:40:48 Are we learning that to truly appreciate this sketch by Monty Python, you have to be bilingual in English and Hungarian. 00:40:50 ? 00:40:54 :D 00:41:12 it might seem so 00:41:53 That's actually interesting 00:42:05 GregorR: add a translatefromto 00:42:08 for those pesky cases 00:42:43 …or just a translatefrom but that's easier given translatefromto :P 00:43:33 `url bin/translateto 00:43:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/translateto 00:43:42 Was that a subtle hint :P 00:43:50 No, that was the easiest way for me to get that URL. 00:43:54 Ah. :P 00:44:57 `fetch http://pastebin.ca/raw/1507393 00:44:58 2009-07-25 23:44:58 URL:http://pastebin.ca/raw/1507393 [555] -> "1507393" [1] 00:45:12 `run mv "1507393" bin/translatefromto; dos2unix bin/translatefromto; chmod 0755 bin/translatefromto 00:45:13 No output. 00:45:20 `translatefromto en es Hello 00:45:21 Hola 00:45:36 `translatefromto es fr Hola 00:45:37 Bonjour 00:45:42 did somebody say something about bilingual in English and Hungarian? :P 00:45:51 Shut up, Table. 00:46:07 [btw, they didn't actually speak Hungarian in the phrasebook sketch :(] 00:47:06 Asztal: angolnák certainly can mean eels, but can it also mean english or is google mistaken? i recall a -nak but not a -nák ending 00:47:31 `translatefromto hu en angolnak angolnak 00:47:33 English English 00:47:43 `translatefromto hu en angolnak angolnak angolnak 00:47:44 English English English 00:47:45 `translatefromto hu en angolnak angolnak angolnák 00:47:46 Asztal: No, but you would have to know what the Hungarian is for what they said, and know Hungarian well enough to figure out the off-by-a-syllable-or-so stuff and see what it was "supposed" to say. 00:47:47 English English eel 00:47:50 xD 00:48:00 oerjan: angolnak = english; angolnák = eel 00:48:06 So it's the difference of a ´? 00:48:08 Seems so, at least 00:48:16 Apparently :-P 00:48:19 If you trust Google Translate. 00:48:34 GOOGLE TRANSLATE IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR 00:48:45 `translateto ko GOOGLE TRANSLATE IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR 00:48:47 Google 번역 나의 주 예수 그리스도는 00:48:59 `translate Google 번역 나의 주 예수 그리스도는 00:49:00 ehird: except it said English for both in my browser when i did angol(n[áá]k) angolnák 00:49:00 Google ë ˛ ě-ë, ~ ě ~ ě Ł ź ě ~ ě ~ ę ¸ ë | Ź ěŠ ¤ ë "ëŠ" 00:49:08 argh 00:49:09 `translatefromto ko en Google 번역 나의 주 예수 그리스도는 00:49:10 No output. 00:49:14 quick summary: angol = english, -nak can be a dative suffix; angolna = eel, -k is a plural suffix (and the 'a' becomes 'á') 00:49:17 s/á/a/ 00:49:21 If anybody wants to figure out how to fix that, that'd be sweet :P 00:49:48 GregorR: send header w/ "im utf8 bitch! lol" 00:49:58 also s/</ ehird: Tried 00:50:02 Asztal: And hovercraft? :P 00:50:08 the best translations can be found at http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/hovercraft.htm 00:50:29 "Tagalog: Puno ng palos ang aking hoberkrap/hovercraft" 00:50:31 Hobo crap. 00:51:04 `translateto hu My English hovercraft is full of English eels 00:51:05 Saját angol légpárnás teli angol angolna 00:51:40 `translate Saját angol légpárnás teli angol angola 00:51:41 Saja Ąt Š the English GPa and a full english ĄĄRNA Angola 00:51:45 lol 00:52:00 `translate angolnak angolnák 00:52:01 English eel Ąk 00:52:06 http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/useful.htm This = hilarious :P 00:52:07 * oerjan doesn't see a suffix for "My" there... 00:52:16 that would be -m or -k, iirc 00:52:20 okay, finally, i have proven there's no way to do it under 16. 00:52:45 How come you know hungarian, oerjan? 00:52:49 Or, at least partly 00:53:02 oklopol: :D 00:53:04 oklopol: what's the 16 00:53:07 also what 00:53:09 swap or rot 00:53:18 wait i'll translate it to forth 00:53:18 my mom tried to learn it 00:53:23 oklopol: also post your best ones as a comment on http://retrocode.blogspot.com/2009/07/perverse-code-deviant-forth.html dammit :P 00:53:27 Ah 00:53:34 oerjan: I've never seen "Saját" before, but apparently it means "mine" 00:53:36 she had some hungarian friends 00:53:36 Ich bin kein Mitglied dieser Konferenz, dennoch möchte ich einen Pinguin. 00:53:39 Asztal: ah 00:53:44 fizziew: are you very w? 00:54:29 >R >R R@ R> R@ - >R R@ - R@ R@ R> - R> - - 00:54:34 think that shuold work 00:54:47 oerjan: you were right, though, -m is what I'd expect (as in légpárnás hajó*m*) 00:55:04 the last one was borked because i managed to think python does its subtraction symbolically. 00:55:14 *should 00:55:20 oklopol: post it 00:55:29 oklopol: also is that rot i assume? 00:55:36 no no it's swap :D 00:55:41 ah 00:55:48 oklopol: didn't you have a smaller swap? 00:55:49 but OK 00:55:51 also 15 is currently as much as i can brute force 00:55:51 post it! 00:55:54 length 15 00:55:59 so it was luck i managed to do that 00:56:09 ehird: that smaller swap was broken 00:56:24 Asztal: that's what that hovercraft page uses too 00:56:26 oklopol: ah 00:56:28 anyway, i could make it a lot faster, and do rot, ofc 00:56:34 oklopol: post it dammit 00:56:40 at least i assume i can generate more optimizations 00:56:43 err 00:56:44 umm 00:56:44 sure 00:56:45 sure as hell beats his 00:56:47 : SWAP >R >R R@ R> >R R@ R> R@ - >R R@ R> >R - R> R> + >R >R >R R@ R> - + R> R> ; 00:57:01 i think mine is the exact same. 00:57:10 er wait 00:57:11 oklopol: 00:57:12 "R@ R>" 00:57:13 except without the redundancy 00:57:17 oh wait 00:57:22 I thought that was different 00:57:23 nm 00:57:38 ohh 00:57:41 actually what i did was take 00:57:42 over 00:57:46 and just leave the x out 00:57:51 wat 00:58:04 over does a swap, and leaves another copy of x in there 00:58:16 ah 00:58:19 Min igelkott är inte dum eller söt. 00:58:22 i just dropped that instruction 00:58:28 and then removed redundancy 00:58:37 hmm my copy of his didn't expand + 00:58:42 it's more interesting that i proved it's optimal 00:58:44 GregorR: Alla igelkottar er söta 00:58:50 not that that's very interesting still 00:58:53 *är 00:59:16 : SWAP >R >R R@ R> >R R@ R> R@ - >R R@ R> >R - R> R> >R >R R@ R> >R R@ R> - R> - - >R >R >R R@ R> - >R >R R@ R> - R> - - R> R> ; 00:59:19 pretty ugly 00:59:29 oklopol: wonder if it's tc 00:59:31 i think so 00:59:37 no conditionals 00:59:38 anyway 00:59:39 err 00:59:45 unless you make it lazy :P 00:59:51 where was that url... 00:59:56 oklopol: conditionals can be done by pushing addresses on the return stack 00:59:58 if you have ' 01:00:02 oh 01:00:06 well assuming that's not done 01:00:14 : nop-forever ' nop-forever >R ; 01:00:26 you could have laziness, like if some value is subtracted from itself after being calculated, it will not be calculated at all 01:00:33 ehird: what is ' ? 01:00:45 oerjan: ' reads the next word and pushes its definition's address 01:00:49 so there 01:00:55 ' nop-forever → d834fu34 01:01:18 ehird: without ', might you instead use R> DROP as an INTERCAL FORGET? 01:01:37 hmm yes 01:01:44 you can loop without ' 01:01:49 : nop-forever R@ >R ; 01:01:50 oklopol: ↑ 01:01:53 oh wait you still need to do so conditionally 01:01:53 think it might be TC because of that 01:02:02 ooh 01:02:03 even 01:02:10 * FireFly wants a browser with full CSS3 support 01:02:30 : FOREVER R> DROP R@ >R ; 01:02:32 I think 01:02:36 then : LOOP ... FOREVER ; 01:02:43 LOOP is "... ... ..." forever 01:02:46 I beleive 01:02:47 believe 01:02:50 wait 01:02:53 that just loops after forever 01:02:53 so 01:02:57 : LOOP FOREVER ... ; 01:03:29 : forever r> drop r@ >r ; ok 01:03:30 : test forever ." Hello, world!" cr ; ok 01:03:32 test ok 01:03:34 or not 01:03:47 : forever r@ >r ; redefined forever ok 01:03:47 forever ok 01:03:49 needs more thinking 01:03:59 : forever r@ >r >r ; redefined forever ok 01:03:59 forever 01:04:01 :9: Address alignment exception 01:04:03 bye 01:04:23 `translateto fi cat 01:04:24 kissa 01:05:39 ehird: "URL contains illegal characters" 01:05:45 i can't post comments i'm too dumb :P 01:05:57 `translate kissa 01:05:59 cat 01:06:09 Hm, did we get `translatefromto ? 01:06:32 err 01:06:48 Google Account, what does that mean, should i be logged onto google or something? 01:07:41 `translatefromto es ko Hola 01:07:43 안녕하세요 01:07:46 >_O 01:07:52 hehe 01:08:06 `translatefromto es it Hola 01:08:06 ehird: i posted, but i also posted the proof, and tabs got fucked up 01:08:07 Ciao 01:08:13 `translatefromto sv en kissa 01:08:15 pee 01:08:40 Just don't pee on a cat. 01:09:26 also "pushed one less x" only makes sense if you know what x is :P 01:09:38 i'm not exactly used to adding comments. 01:09:48 you know, because i'm a retard 01:09:53 it's hard for me 01:26:24 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:30:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:50:50 `translateto ja Warrigal 01:50:51 No output. 01:50:57 Blink. 01:52:32 `translateto ja I really like eating that beef. 01:52:34 私は実際には、牛肉を食べるように。 01:56:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:56:20 Anyway, ウォリガル, anyone? 01:56:48 `translateto ja My nickname is Warrigal. 01:56:49 私のニックネームは野生です。 01:58:35 "Warrigal" translates??? 01:58:48 It's a word. 01:58:53 `define Warrigal 01:58:55 * Australian wild horse \ * dingo: wolflike yellowish-brown wild dog of Australia \ [19]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn 01:59:20 You're an Australian wild horse, huh. 01:59:23 `define gregor 01:59:24 * Gregor is a surname, and may refer to: * Francis Gregor (MP) (1760 - 1815 ), MP for the County of Cornwall, brother of William. * Valentin Gregor (born May 1963, Bonn, Germany) is a jazz violinist, singer and composer. ... \ [22]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_(surname) \ * Gregory is a common masculine first 02:01:03 watashi no NIKKUNEEMU wa (野生) desu. 02:01:24 `translateto ko My hovercraft is full of Warrigals. 02:01:26 내 호버 Warrigals으로 가득 차있다. 02:01:29 LAME 02:01:33 `define pikhq 02:01:33 `translateto ja My hovercraft is full of Warrigals. 02:01:34 No output. 02:01:35 私のホバークラフトWarrigalsでいっぱいです。 02:01:39 LAME 02:02:08 `translateto eo My hovercraft is full of eels 02:02:09 No output. 02:02:18 What, no Esperanto? 02:02:26 I think 野生 is a single word. I don't know how it's pronounced. 02:02:48 Words with multiple kanji use the on readings, right? 02:03:09 `translateto fy My hovercraft is full of eels. 02:03:11 No output. 02:03:21 No Frisian, either. :( 02:04:20 `translateto lv My hovercraft is full of bananas. 02:04:21 Mani hovercraft ir pilns ar banâniem. 02:04:34 The on readings of 野 are ya and sho, and those of 生 are shoo and sei. I think. 02:04:59 `translateto ko I wonder if Google Translate can translate words like "sex doll", "dildo", "pornography" and "threesome" 02:05:01 Google 번역하면 "섹스 인형", "!!"와 같은 단어를 번역할 수 있을지 궁금하다 "포르노"및 "3 인조" 02:05:33 Apparently, Korean for 'dildo' is '!!' 02:06:05 And I prefer the dingo to the horse. 02:06:13 Equines are weird and/or freaky. 02:06:18 `translateto ja dingo 02:06:20 ディンゴ 02:06:41 `translateto fi Equines like to get weird and/or freaky. 02:06:43 Hevoseläimet haluaisin saada outoja ja / tai Freaky. 02:07:12 I'm glad that it capitalized "freaky" for me :P 02:07:52 Thereby proving that the word for "dingo" is the same in every language. 02:09:38 It's even a valid, though nonexistent, gismu in Lojban. 02:10:29 In theory, you're not allowed to use that word until the LLG approves it, which they probably will never do. But people who want the word for "dingo" to be the same in every language will ignore that. 02:11:59 Damned Happy Tree People ... every time I channel-surf past cutesy cartoons, I expect them all to die horrendous deaths. 02:16:14 Though the word is different in Lithuanian. They say "dingas". 02:23:23 * Warrigal attempts to figure out the Farsi word for "dingo" and comes up with "farsdh", which is actually the Farsi word for Farsi. 02:23:47 Um :P 02:24:17 `translateto fa dingo 02:24:18 dingo 02:25:11 `translateto fa Farsi 02:25:13 No output. 02:25:46 The Farsi word for "dingo" is "دینگو"... 02:28:08 Which can be transliterated as "dīngow". 02:28:46 Persians are dingos. 02:29:40 In Korean, it's "딩고", which doesn't render in Courier New. Lovely. 02:33:42 Anyway, that appears to transliterate as "dinggo", where "ngg" is a velar nasal followed by a g. 02:34:09 Which is, err, the correct pronunciation? 02:34:26 Generally. 02:34:42 In Hebrew, it's "דינגו". 02:37:13 Observation: The reason why "dingo" is the same in every language is that dingos were discovered after most modern languages were more-or-less in place. Now stop talking about it like it's interesting. 02:37:39 And hey, it transliterates as "dingo". 02:38:07 Hey, I only have four more words to transliterate. :-P All on one line, now... 02:38:23 "dingo", "dingo", "dingo" and "dingo", YES, WE GET IT 02:45:13 Have I destroyed your will? :P 02:46:44 MY WILLY IS INDESTRUCTIBLE 02:47:38 I'm trying to think of any response at all that's not ultra-gay innuendo ... in your end-o. 02:48:23 Georgian: "დინგო", "dingo". Tamil: "டிங்கோ", "tinko". Chinese: I'll get back to you on that. 02:48:54 How are you doing all these magical transliterations? 02:49:17 By going to the Wikipedia pages on their scripts and looking up each letter. 02:49:33 Ow 02:49:53 I find it very interesting that my terminal doesn't render Arabis script correctly. 02:49:59 I'm gonna go grab my English-to-Ancient-Egyptian dictionary and look up "dingo" 02:49:59 Interesting and lame. 02:50:46 I'm going to write "dingo" in Ancient Egyptian now. 02:51:50 Hieroglyphs. 02:52:00 I doubt it. 02:54:31 Keep in mind that Hieroglyphs had no vowels, and it would be ultra-lame if you used only hieroglyphs that encode single sounds. 02:55:25 Since the 'd' and 'n' single-sound hieroglyphs are both wide but 'g' isn't, you should do some combination to make the result more attractive. 03:03:23 D46:N35-W11 03:04:29 So, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ihope127 for my ultra-lame hieroglyphs. 03:07:25 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:08:13 That's exactly what I expected :P 03:08:17 SO MUCH LAME 03:08:46 Hieroglyphs is all about choosing the right symbols such that every word is its own block ... with this the 'g' is more-or-less detached from 'dn' 03:08:54 I'm an ass ^^ 03:10:45 Argh, it's hot in my apartment :( 03:11:18 So find a bilateral sign for "dn" or "ng". :-P 03:11:39 TOO LAZY 03:11:49 Hmm, D46:N35:W11 does render. 03:12:00 Who says only wide signs are stackable? 03:12:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ihope127 03:12:34 ... it's not a block :P 03:12:45 What is a block, then? 03:12:51 It's apparently not the same thing as a stack. 03:13:03 Unless you mean that that block doesn't exist. 03:13:36 Now I'll try to write "warrigal". 03:13:58 Something which, when put into a box, has no appreciable blank spots. 03:19:26 wrgl, so wrgn or wrgr, so wr g n or wr g r, which codes as G36 W11 D21 or G36 W11 N35. 03:19:36 Neither of which can be rendered in a way that looks nice. 03:21:55 Oh, hey, G36-W11:N35 actually is a block. 03:25:00 It's three times as wide as it is tall, but it's still a block. 03:27:13 Warrigal: oh my god those were lame 03:32:59 Are there less-lame ways of doing these? 03:33:04 Also, "LAPWING WITH WINGS TWISTED 03:33:13 ROUND ONE ANOTHER" is such a great Unicode character name. 03:33:54 GregorR: Any Winelf news, or am I going to have to fiddle with it myself for there to be any progress? :P 03:34:20 I just added x86_64 support for Linux, but it doesn't work, and has nothing to do with Windows :P 03:35:17 Bah. 03:35:28 Bring on the CygwinELF! 03:37:19 NO U 03:38:18 * pikhq would also accept Loadlin 03:39:37 Why don't you try running elfimplib over cygwin1.dll and seeing what happens :P 03:42:14 Or were you actually thinking libcygwin.so.1? 03:42:14 Wouldn't quite work right, because cygwin1.dll does direct calls to the Win32 process execution call... 03:42:42 That's a nonissue. 03:42:50 You just have to make it not call cygwin1.dll for those. 03:43:09 I just want a libcygwin.so.1 that executes Cygwin programs as ELF files. 03:43:23 Possible, but D-8 03:44:20 All the calls go through a single function. 03:44:37 (Cygwin has a syscall-esque design for cygwin1.dll) 03:44:53 Oh 03:44:58 Well that's interesting. 03:45:21 Basically, Cygwin is designed as a UNIX kernel which happens to run in userspace on Windows. 03:48:46 And it already has seperate code paths for executing Windows and Cygwin executables. 03:49:07 Hmm. 03:49:37 Because of how Cygwin works, if the WinELF programs started with #!/bin/elfload, it would work right. :P 03:51:13 X-D 03:51:18 There's only one problem with that ... 03:51:20 They're ELF files :P 03:51:32 * pikhq looks to see if it'd be easy to add more magic numbers there 03:52:42 Incidentally, if you know anything about ELF symbol versioning and want to extend elfload ... I won't stop you? :P 03:53:13 Is there a file extension that makes Windows toss a file to Cygwin for shebanging? 03:53:23 Warrigal: No. 03:53:55 How Cygwin works is it functions as a UNIX kernel. Shebanging only works when something is being executed via Cygwin. 03:54:11 s/works is it/ 03:54:11 / 03:56:33 Ah, there's the Cygwin magic number handling. 03:57:30 int av::fixup (const char *prog_arg, path_conv& real_path, const char *ext) 03:58:01 In winsup/cygwin/spawn.cc 03:58:18 Warning: hard-to-read C++. 03:58:24 (read: "Win32 API") 03:59:52 Couldn't you write a program that tells Cygwin to execute a particular file, and then assign a certain file extension to that program? 04:00:58 int main(int argc,char**argv){exec(argv[1]);} 04:01:00 ... So, yes. 04:01:49 GregorR: Well, right now I'm just looking for what, exactly, the ELF magic number is. 04:02:18 ELF in hex plus a 128 before or after is my guess 04:03:00 127 before 04:03:53 *in ascii 04:03:55 ofc 04:04:03 heh hex 04:05:21 "\127ELF", then. 04:05:43 yes, according to rwh 04:06:55 So, should be just a minor patch to spawn.cc and a build away. 04:07:02 "minor patch" lawl 04:08:00 GregorR: Make it handle the ELF magic number sequence and call elfload.exe. :P 04:12:48 * pikhq very strongly gets the feeling that elfload does not load shared libraries in shared memory space. :P 04:16:24 Hmm. The Cygwin dlopen would also need patching. :/ 04:21:01 -!- Xiin has joined. 04:23:56 0xFFELF, of course. 04:24:35 is that so 04:32:23 0xL :P 07:06:49 -!- Robdgreat has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:12:46 The netsplit was much more epic in Python 07:12:49 #python 07:17:48 is that so 07:17:54 should probably join then 07:18:09 hmm, would need to reg 07:23:32 morning 07:32:17 morning 07:32:18 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 07:32:33 should probably sleep soon 07:33:51 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:35:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:47:45 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:07:27 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 08:50:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:14:34 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 09:27:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:56:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:03:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:13:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:57:47 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:12:37 `translate Lachs 12:12:38 Salmon 12:12:44 Thanks, HackEgo 12:13:26 01:37 GregorR: Observation: The reason why "dingo" is the same in every language is that dingos were discovered after most modern languages were more-or-less in place. Now stop talking about it like it's interesting. 12:13:56 All Warrigal does is come up with some pointless goal and annoy the channel for hours with it, including such gems of tautology as "In theory, you're not allowed to use that word until the LLG approves it, which they probably will never do. But people who want the word for "dingo" to be the same in every language will ignore that." 12:13:59 get used to it 12:15:11 * oerjan wasn't annoyed and has no idea what you was talking about. 12:15:44 -!- Zuu has changed nick to billgates2. 12:17:03 i have no idea what you was talking about, oerjan 12:17:10 you was not good with the english 12:17:30 that very good. i were not really trying. 12:17:39 -!- billgates2 has changed nick to Zuu. 12:18:03 oerjan doth sound liketh he needs some sleep 12:18:51 that would been weird, seeing as i just get up 12:19:14 I also, but I'm still tired 12:29:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"). 12:49:46 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;297830 Microsoft have high opinions of their program's logic consistency: 12:49:49 INSERT INTO test ; 12:49:49 VALUES ("Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") 12:52:52 -!- Nowicjusz has joined. 12:54:10 -!- Nowicjusz has left (?). 12:54:21 Hey, the Pole. 13:03:32 Gnome 3 is going to be awesome. I wish Gnome 3 was out. 13:04:14 Wow! 2.28 is going to depend on WebKit/GTK+. Cool. 13:10:53 "This would work and reuse a lot of code, but I’m a little wary of embedding a web browser into the window manager." 13:17:41 [[Abstract: This talk describes a radically different architecture for computing called Fleet. Fleet accepts the limitations to computing imposed by physics: moving data around inside a computer costs more energy, more delay, and more chip area than the arithmetic and logical operations ordinarily called “computing.” Fleet puts the programmer firmly in charge of the most costly resource, communication, instead of in charge of the arithmetic and logic 13:17:43 al resources that are now almost free. Fleet treats arithmetic and logical operations as side effects of where the programmer sends data.]] 13:17:53 This guy is anticipating electrons slowing down massively, I guess. 14:01:48 Windows woke up my computer from sleep to update windows media centre. Is it just me, or is that really stupid? 14:05:42 Windows[…]Is[…]really stupid 14:05:44 […] 14:05:53 s/\n\[…\]/[…]/ 14:11:00 -!- Pthing has joined. 14:25:08 [[Quote from the Encyclopedia Galactica, 5th rev.: 14:25:08 > The virus that destroyed Terran "Western" civilization, known as W32.Addict, was much simpler in construction than previous viruses. Once running, it would open the computer's web browser at random intervals between one and five hours to a random page from the TV Tropes website. Millions were found dead at their computers in the first 48 hours of the epidemic alone. Even worse, those infected voluntarily spread the virus further, e-mailing others to "c 14:25:13 heck out this site I found."]] 14:25:15 — reddit 14:49:32 "My six year old cousin is being sexually abused by her step-mom, what can I do (legally)?" 14:49:36 The answer being "ask on reddit". 14:50:21 "Take pix" 14:50:42 No, that'd be /b/. 14:50:47 b b. 14:50:51 Hyuk hyuk hyuk. 14:50:56 bee 14:59:04 -!- ehird has set topic: תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 14:59:10 `translate תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ 14:59:11 × ª Ö ¹ × "× • Ö ¼ × • Ö ¸ × 'Ö ¹ ×" × • Ö ¼ 14:59:15 heh 15:02:59 wat 15:03:40 From the Torah; "tohu va vohu" → "without form, and void". 15:03:46 Quite accurately describes esolangs… 15:03:53 Most of them, at least. 15:04:01 I resent that remark 15:05:12 I said "most of them". :) 15:05:20 Haha, Genesis is called Bereshit in the Torah. 15:05:25 Too perfect. 15:07:19 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 15:07:21 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Client Quit). 15:07:58 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 15:17:29 * ehird reads someone claim that nobody has monitored the brainwaves of someone feeling "love" 15:17:44 Welcome to the world! Next stop: Holy Fucking Shit It's The Twenty First Century Wow. 17:05:20 morning 17:07:26 * GregorR is running another generation of his color matcher. 17:07:31 5115 results now! zomg 17:08:04 you're such a pimp 17:08:42 You should all be matching colors right now, cats and kittens! 17:09:18 i don't believe in colors 17:09:28 Well. 17:09:37 That's ... an odd statement. 17:09:57 Especially from somebody enjoying the WHITE PRIVILEGE. 17:10:40 hi oklopol. 17:10:40 how do you know i'm white? 17:11:40 hmm. i guess i did recently record my penis 17:11:54 but, you can't be sure, i could've like colored my skin for it 17:12:22 umm hi mister ehird 17:13:05 oklopol: *muster 17:13:07 musterehird 17:13:12 muster I heard 17:13:38 At generation 113, best result is 0.72 (5889/8210) 17:14:15 GregorR: can it do more subtle colours 17:14:24 GregorR: that tells me absolutely nothing 17:14:35 ehird: In what sense? 17:14:38 oklopol: Too bad. 17:14:49 :| 17:14:50 GregorR: the previous one gave very strong colours 17:14:58 very primary sort of thing 17:15:02 not something you could use as subtle shades and stuff 17:15:03 ehird: Oh, you mean for color schemes? 17:15:09 things like that, yeah 17:15:28 That would have to be checked independently. This just says "are these two colors not barfaglorious" 17:15:34 GregorR: what's the 5889 there? 17:15:49 oklopol: How many pieces of matching data my neural network agrees with. 17:16:12 GregorR: well that's obvious, i could've deduced that easily 17:16:26 Uhhhhh, then why did you ask? :P 17:16:52 hmm. good question. i'll have to assume it has something to do with the fact i just woke up. even though i'm not at all tired. 17:17:04 "groggy" != "tired" 17:17:08 `define groggy 17:17:09 * dazed: stunned or confused and slow to react (as from blows or drunkenness or exhaustion) \ [12]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Sleep inertia is a physiological state characterised by a decline in motor dexterity and a subjective feeling of grogginess, immediately following an abrupt awakening. Sleep 17:17:31 Fuck you, Google. 17:18:15 GregorR: if you wake up at 19:00, there's not always a clear distinction 17:18:19 lol 17:18:20 "Sleep" 17:18:23 it's commanding you to! 17:18:33 oklopol: ugh, I'd hate that 17:18:41 waking up late depresses me 17:18:45 At generation 195, best result is 0.73 (5974/8210) 17:19:04 GregorR: you do realise there's probably a better way than a generic neural network for this? 17:19:22 when i'm alone and don't have uni, i automatically switch to an inverse rhythm 17:19:26 Genetic neural networks are awesome, screw you :P 17:19:30 GregorR: neural networks tend to be great at their example and crap at everything else, unless there's inherent, meaningful structure directly related to the operation embedded in the inputs 17:19:43 takes like 4 days or so :D 17:19:46 there isn't such barfness-structure in colour codes 17:19:57 I really do think that there is. 17:20:02 oklopol: don't you like sunlight? :< 17:20:10 ehird: no not really 17:20:12 i like the rain 17:20:18 GregorR: yeah because that 1 bit there with that 0 bit there implies the subjective human aesthetic system likes it 17:20:20 riiiiiiight 17:20:21 and darkness 17:20:39 i must be the only person who likes daylight 17:20:47 ehird: And yet, everybody on Earth can go "lime green and pink? Maybe not." 17:21:01 GregorR: Let me get this straight. 17:21:05 Two things. 17:21:36 "Every human can do this" = "genetic neural networks can do this"? Two, yes, they can decide whether two colours fit. That doesn't mean that the actual bits in two colour codes has INHERENT MEANINGFUL STRUCTURE related to this. 17:21:37 *inherent* 17:21:45 and you need that for neural networks to do well at it 17:21:48 (Also, the input data is, by my quick-n-dirty remover-for-inconsistent-results, 40% inconsistent 8-D ) 17:21:53 otherwise it's just a pseudorandom shitfest 17:21:56 GregorR: well not everybody 17:22:09 GregorR: see? 17:22:15 i'd tell you who can't, but you'd ban me from your color matcher. 17:22:35 [[Barring unforeseen issues, Emacs 23.1 will be released in two days, on Wednesday the 22nd: http://article.gmane.org/gm... 17:22:36 Correction: Emacs 23.1 will be released in nine days, on Wednesday the 29th.]] 17:22:37 — http://twitter.com/emacs 17:22:41 oklopol: who? you? :D 17:22:47 your random voting computer program? 17:22:54 what's wrong with pink and lime green 17:23:09 ehird: What you've forgotten is that I'm actually rather happy with the result of this neural network, and agree with it more often than not :P 17:23:09 oklopol: you gon get band! 17:23:19 GregorR: That just means you're crazy. :P 17:23:45 GregorR: Also, bit of bias in that you made it to work so you rather want it to work. 17:23:51 Might influence your agreement decisions. 17:24:15 GregorR: Didn't you say you wanted a phone that can run emacs? 17:24:22 ?! 17:24:26 Hmm. 17:24:28 Someone in here did. 17:24:31 A while back. 17:25:12 GregorR: is the input data the votes from the website? 17:25:30 Yes 17:26:01 i bet you i could write something incredibly trivial that just compares the numbers with a few biases and get more than 73% 17:26:14 Feel free. 17:26:27 are the votes free for grabbing? 17:26:58 because that was not *only* and insult, i also really would like to try :P 17:27:02 (Also, 76% is the number to beat now, I don't recall saying "gee, I'm going to run this for 200 generations then call it quits") 17:27:25 programming is fun again, because i don't know haskell so well every bug is a typo 17:27:31 *well enough that 17:27:45 i don't know why i corrected that 17:28:17 codu.org/colormatch/q/data/matches 17:28:45 do they have obvious meanings? 17:29:08 R1 G1 B1 R2 G2 B2 M 17:29:12 Where M=1 is matches 17:29:17 so yeah obvious 17:29:26 boolean might've been inverted 17:29:29 in theory 17:29:43 i'll put that in the just woke up file too 17:29:56 Could've been R1 R2 G1 G2 B1 B2 M in theory too ;) 17:30:00 kolmogorov complexity is computable by just trying every program of length 0, 1, 2, ... isn't it? 17:30:05 no it couldn't 17:30:08 i mean only on a superturing machine or sth 17:30:11 oh 17:30:13 but in practice 17:30:15 yes it could, misread 17:30:27 thought you said r1 g1 b1 b2 g2 r2 m 17:30:32 that could not have been 17:30:50 ehird: well of course 17:30:53 That would have been a weird choice :P 17:31:15 oklopol: so why is kolmogorov complexity uncomputable? 17:31:21 smallest program that does x is found by finding the smallest program that does it. 17:31:41 ehird: because if a prog of length 2 doesn't halt, you have no way of knowing whether you can advance 17:31:43 sheesh 17:31:51 oh 17:31:52 well duh 17:31:53 >_< 17:31:56 i'm the stupid 17:31:59 just woke up 17:32:34 oklopol: i've been up for hours 17:32:45 over five in fact 17:32:49 oklopol: or do you mean you? 17:33:00 i have absolutely no idea what i meant 17:33:03 oklopol: anyway, I just realised something cool 17:33:14 a machine that lets you start infinite parallel turing machine computations at once is superturing 17:33:35 you can have a function that tries every program, and reports on the lowest kolmogorov complexity 17:33:37 as they terminate 17:33:52 which you can't do with a TM 17:34:08 ehird: umm and when does it know the smallest to finish :D 17:34:14 and have the correct result 17:34:18 oklopol: it doesn't, it reports on them as they go 17:34:19 infinite list 17:34:35 if one terminates and is shorter than the current winner, return it and keep going 17:35:36 you're of course right in that it will find the correct answer in finite time. unfortunately it will not know when it has found it, so i don't think it's superturing under the standard definition. 17:36:17 oklopol: it can't have a function kolmogorov(s), indeed 17:36:18 but 17:36:23 oklopol: you can't do it on a turing machine 17:36:28 if you round-robin the prorgams 17:36:29 you just do 17:36:35 p0_0, p1_0, p2_0, ... 17:36:40 and never get to p0_1 17:36:49 so it can compute something that TMs simply cannot 17:36:50 there are other ways to round robin 17:36:52 -!- jix_ has joined. 17:36:55 you should really learn math :P 17:37:02 i know there are 17:37:13 there just aren't any that can do it this way 17:37:24 yes there are 17:37:28 like what 17:37:37 0101210123432101234543210.. 17:38:07 oklopol: never gets to p{infinity}_0 17:38:13 for a random example 17:38:24 p{infinity}_0 is not a program. 17:38:35 oklopol: sheesh it was ad-hoc notation 17:38:35 if we allow infinite programs, superturing is not enough 17:38:44 oklopol: i meant that it only ever runs a finite amount of the programs 17:38:44 well what the fuck did it mean? 17:38:48 my parallel version runs all of them at once 17:39:18 ehird: for any program pn_0, for any x>0, that round robin executes it at least x times. 17:39:28 /shrug 17:39:41 I think it's distinctly less powerful than an infinitely parallel TM 17:40:00 but it needs more thinking. 17:40:04 which I probably won't give it. 17:40:51 well. i'm not saying anything about infinitely parallel tm's. but i doubt those are superturing 17:41:41 you can certainly achieve things with them that you can't with a TM, I'm pretty sure, but it may not be superturing 17:41:43 hmm wait 17:41:45 that's a contradiction 17:41:50 parallelizing doesn't help all programs, so there are still ones that would have to be run linearly, which means those are subject to the HP 17:42:05 regardless, they certainly speed things up :-P 17:42:14 unless you have an infinitely fast TM 17:42:15 well, umm, i'm not arguing that :P 17:42:39 oklopol: so, STM = TM + parallel {TM*inf} 17:42:40 however 17:42:40 i should go shoppe now. 17:42:44 wait 17:42:50 STM' = TM + parallel {STM'*inf} 17:42:56 oklopol: that's basically an infinity machine, I think, maybe 17:42:58 hmm wait no 17:43:01 it's equivalent 17:43:05 just unpack the nested lists sorta thing 17:43:10 or wait no 17:43:15 if you conditionally parallelise 17:43:25 and STM's "parallel" hangs until they're all done 17:43:29 then STM' is more powerful 17:43:33 but why should it hang anyway 17:43:59 the infinity machine is a bit different; i mean you can't find pi's last digit with your thing 17:44:06 yah 17:44:21 STM' = STM for any sane definition of both 17:44:24 proof: yours is mathematically meaningful, the infinity machine is not. 17:44:42 oklopol: the infinity machine doesn't exist in this mathematical framework, though :) 17:45:47 do you mean it exists in some other mathematical framework? 17:46:05 oklopol: the whole page posits that it exists in another universe and framework entirely 17:46:17 not even necessarily one we can comprehend or even imagine in this universe 17:46:30 well it doesn't posit that it actually exists at all ofc 17:46:32 but if it did 17:47:13 right, it's ages since i read it, and i didn't find it a very interesting idea back then either 17:47:23 you're just lame 17:47:55 a very similar idea was in some philosophy books my dad read when i was like younger than you 17:48:06 so i find it very old 17:48:21 i wish there was a good model for concurrent computing 17:48:27 there are good models for it 17:48:32 oklopol: aha, but 17:48:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:48:36 PI CALCULUS! 17:49:17 well okay, pi calculus is awesome, i don't know about good. also i'm not sure what you mean by a model exactly, i don't know much about the theory of concurrency. 17:49:22 oklopol: it's really hard to find one that, when you distribute across the internet, doesn't fall pray to the eight fallacies of distributed computing: 17:49:39 1. The network is reliable. 17:49:39 2. Latency is zero. 17:49:41 3. Bandwidth is infinite. 17:49:43 4. The network is secure. 17:49:44 yeah they fall pray like a nun 17:49:45 5. Topology doesn't change. 17:49:47 6. There is one administrator. 17:49:49 7. Transport cost is zero. 17:49:51 8. The network is homogeneous. 17:49:56 *prey 17:49:57 :P 17:50:25 i think they just assume real life networks are asymptotically equivalent to those 17:50:49 i mean really, who seriously cares about anything but complexity class 17:50:52 counterexample: the internet 17:50:52 i know i don't 17:50:59 counterexample: any supercomputer 17:51:07 wires can only go so fast :P 17:51:34 oklopol: orly? 17:51:38 i have a great sorting function for you 17:51:51 well, i'm not an expert on this, in fact i don't know *anything* about it, so dunno. 17:51:55 it's O(1) for all lists with a length below Graham's number 17:52:01 and O(n log n) above that 17:52:19 that doesn't really mean anything 17:52:42 oklopol: it beats quicksort and mergesort in complexity in some cases! 17:52:44 best case, specifically 17:53:19 the order of a restricted function is not meaningful 17:53:28 not restricted 17:53:29 works for any list 17:53:36 and i don't care about functions that only work for lists with length below graham's number. 17:53:42 17:51 ehird: it's O(1) for all lists with a length below Graham's number 17:53:42 17:52 ehird: and O(n log n) above that 17:53:48 ehird: it's O(1) for all lists with a length below Graham's number <<< this is a statement about a restricted function 17:53:55 it has afinite domain 17:53:56 *a finite 17:53:57 oklopol: the best case complexity, O(1), is better than quicksort's and mergesort's 17:54:02 this is a perfectly valid statement 17:54:29 "ehird: it's O(1) for all lists with a length below Graham's number" <<< this simply means absolutely nothing 17:54:40 so use my other statemnt 17:54:43 17:53 ehird: oklopol: the best case complexity, O(1), is better than quicksort's and mergesort's 17:55:01 oklopol: if you contend this is meaningless 17:55:02 can you define best case complexity for me? 17:55:02 fuck you: 17:55:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best,_worst_and_average_case 17:55:11 The term best-case performance is used in computer science to describe the way an algorithm behaves under optimal conditions. For example, the best case for a simple linear search on an array occurs when the desired element is the first in the list. 17:55:12 Development and choice of algorithms is rarely based on best-case performance: most academic and commercial enterprises are more interested in improving average performance and worst-case performance. 17:56:05 you said nothing about best case complexity of your algo as input size approaches infinity 17:56:11 just that it's O(n log n) 17:56:23 the best case of my algorithm is O(1) 17:56:26 so i don't really see where you get "better than qs and ms" 17:56:26 that is simply a fact 17:56:45 what does that mean? 17:56:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best,_worst_and_average_case 17:57:03 you're the one who doesn't know shit 17:57:10 because these terms are very clearly defined and very commonly used 17:58:21 you do realize that page doesn't define best case 17:58:29 The term best-case performance is used in computer science to describe the way an algorithm behaves under optimal conditions. For example, the best case for a simple linear search on an array occurs when the desired element is the first in the list. 17:58:34 apparently you're blind 17:58:41 maybe you should use one of those screenreaders 17:58:45 ... 17:58:51 what the fuck 17:59:03 consider yourself ignored forever. 17:59:17 cool, i got oklopol pissed off 17:59:19 that guy is a fucking retard 17:59:22 shoppe -> 17:59:31 * ehird checks off on list of Impossible Things to do Before Breakfast 18:13:39 "Oh, Reddit has discovered Sketchy LISP. Again." — Nils M Holm, in red lettering. 18:20:47 oklopol: How's your color matcher goin'? :P 18:27:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:36:38 :D 18:36:58 you know that perfectly well 18:37:15 anyway i just came back from the shoppe 18:37:21 couldn't have finished it yet 18:37:29 there was a guy riding a unicycle 18:37:42 hi oklopol who can't hear me! 18:37:50 it was kinda hard to leave after telling him i like unicycling too 18:37:58 he was like omg soulmate stay here with me 18:38:39 -!- oklopol has left (?). 18:38:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:38:45 wb oklopol who can't hear me 18:43:23 cool, i got oklopol pissed off <<< yes, i guess you could say that. 18:43:37 hey you said i was ignored bitch 18:43:42 are you a fucking liar 18:43:43 bitch 18:44:04 guess i am now tho :D 18:44:19 i've decided to unignore you once you sincerely apologize, and state clearly that you were wrong. 18:44:22 unless you do it right away 18:44:43 oklopol: haha but you can't because you have to ignore me to hear you 18:44:47 it's a max(random amount, apology) 18:44:50 CONSIDERED THAT BITCH? 18:45:21 weird yogurt eating time -> 18:45:24 anyway i didn't actually say anything more insulting than you calling me a retard, and i wasn't wrong, soo 18:45:27 not happenin' pardner 18:45:35 EVERYTHING BLUE IS OKLOPOL TO MEEEEEEE 18:45:55 GregorR: i'll probably start after a crucial episode of family guy, remember to keep me updated 18:46:19 your mom will start after a crucial episode of family gu 18:46:20 y 18:46:21 oh snap 18:46:36 on your percentage that is 18:47:02 also what exactly is that percentage, i mean do you input half and test half, or what? 18:47:37 if you input all and test all, i can trivially beat you, but i guess you could consider that unfair :P 18:48:16 oh wait 18:48:28 yours doesn't even have input because it's evolutionizing 18:49:09 kinda forgot the context 18:49:20 oklopol -itics 18:57:21 I'm so full of chalk and sawdust, you guys 18:57:32 hawt 18:58:39 GregorR: that tells me absolutely nothing 18:58:54 Then YOU don't read enough Dinosaur Comics :P 18:58:55 IT TELLS YOU ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE ARE 18:59:25 as i've mentioned before, i don't seem to understand them 19:00:08 haha oklopol doesn't understand dinosaur comic 19:00:08 s 19:00:14 * GregorR lols at oklopol 19:00:40 more like faglopol 19:00:41 amirite 19:01:05 Not that there's anything wrong with that! 19:01:12 * pikhq disables IO-APIC, retries installing XP on VirtualBox. 19:01:22 anyway, the solution i was gonna do was to store a size 4096 state space, that size would probably be enough to get over 90% prolly no matter how sucky it is, if i just let evolution find the optimal values for it 19:01:48 pikhq: grab the win7 RC! 19:01:50 it has less suck 19:01:50 That feature apparently makes XP absurdly slow. 19:02:09 ehird: When I have access to spare bandwidth, I'll grab Server 2008. 19:02:15 (read: when I get back to school) 19:02:15 but, i'll try to think of something else, because i don't like losing to people like you. 19:02:43 pikhq: why that instead of windows 7? 19:02:49 i mean they're basically the same thing 19:02:50 but 19:02:52 you can get win7 rc legally 19:02:56 and use it until june 2009 19:02:56 ehird: Full version for free. 19:02:58 Legally. 19:03:05 pikhq: but for a limited time 19:03:07 just like win7 19:03:07 (because I'm a student) 19:03:08 no? 19:03:12 ah. 19:03:13 No. 19:03:21 well who cares about legal, says I! 19:03:22 or sth 19:03:35 Microsoft offers development software for free to all high-school and college students. 19:03:45 Server OSes apparently count as development software. 19:03:53 Riiiiiiiiight 19:04:17 Anyways, I find it absurd how very fast this thing is going without IO-APIC enabled. 19:05:33 well, you're supposed to stop using it when you stop being a student, or so I thought. 19:05:37 Yup, I can apparently get Server 2008 19:05:39 not that I'd do that either. 19:05:40 That's weirdsauce. 19:05:56 I can get Vista Business too 19:06:08 And MapPoint, because that's dev software. 19:06:35 My roommate apparently has two free copies of every version piece of Microsoft software from XP on. 19:06:39 I got Vista twice, 32-bit and 64-bit... (even though product keys work on both architectures) 19:06:42 why two 19:06:55 ehird: Double the flavor, no calories! 19:07:06 Windows doesn't have flavour 19:07:11 well it does 19:07:12 it's just "shit" 19:07:15 ehird: He did something to merit getting one copy. And he did something else that merited getting one copy. 19:07:23 pikhq: he must be so luck 19:07:24 y 19:07:36 Now if only he gave a damn. 19:07:58 "Well, I *guess* I could use my new i7 for running all of them at once..." 19:08:16 :-D 19:08:19 you could also get XP twice from MSDN Academic Alliance, because it considered windows XP and Windows XP with SP2 different products... 19:08:24 pikhq: I don't think i7s are *that* good 19:08:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:09:03 hello oerjan 19:09:13 [ehird:~/Library] % rm -rf Application Support/CrossOver Chromium ;; holy fuck I'm glad none of those were valid directory names 19:09:16 good evening oklopol 19:09:23 jesus 19:09:26 Greetings from a couple of kilometers to the east 19:09:29 * ehird breathes heavily 19:09:30 we're talking about how great microsoft is 19:09:41 Anyways, he has two MSDN accounts. 19:09:49 FireFly: from whom? 19:09:54 From me 19:09:59 To oerjan 19:10:01 And no desire to use them. 19:10:18 err right, i mean "to" 19:10:20 *meant 19:10:27 wait, a couple of kilometers? 19:10:39 s/a couple/quite some/ 19:10:42 Better? 19:12:54 * oerjan concludes there is probably no part of sweden a couple of kilometers to the east of here, even with north/south adjustment 19:12:54 FireFly: where in se? 19:13:13 it's sweden IN SPIRIT 19:13:37 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:13:42 hi bsmntbombdood 19:13:50 hi ehird 19:20:52 oklopol: you're a 19:24:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:34:12 oklopol, in Stockholm 19:36:14 FireFly: then i'm much closer than oerjan. 19:37:17 * FireFly does not possess the the information about where in Norway oerjan lives 19:37:41 Or oklopol, for that matter 19:37:50 oklopol's in uhh 19:37:51 turku? 19:38:01 i live in the closest finnish city to you 19:38:29 unless you count that little island in the middle 19:41:23 oklopol: Åland? BTW, I were in Turku/Åbo last week. Quite nice city. 19:42:38 and you lived in... sweden? 19:42:48 !haskell putStrLn "foo" 19:42:50 foo 19:43:29 !haskell putStrLn "ʝjao\815" 19:44:03 !haskell putStrLn "\669jao\815" 19:44:04 jao/ 19:44:05 !haskell putStrLn (5 + unsafePerformIO (putStrLn "printing" >> return 5)) 19:44:15 * Warrigal frownyface. 19:44:35 unsafePerformIO is criminal. 19:44:35 !haskell print (5 + unsafePerformIO (putStrLn "printing" >> return 5)) 19:44:46 well fuck :P 19:44:57 doesn't unsafePerformIO work like that? 19:45:44 Sure, if it's imported. :P 19:47:10 right 19:47:54 Warrigal: ghc default I/O is latin-1. it's being changed though... 19:50:41 oerjan: Lol*wut*? 19:50:49 That is evil. 19:51:31 which means it's essentially just doing (mod 256) I/O 19:53:16 Which is evil and retarded. 19:53:34 Latin-1 must die. 19:53:57 oerjan: it's not latin-1, really; it's just 8-bit 19:54:09 it's UTF-8, for instance, if you want 19:54:14 but you'll have to construct your own strings 19:54:22 but yeah, ghc head fixed it 19:54:26 6.12 19:54:30 All character encodings other than UTF-8 are loserly. 19:55:06 GregorR: I am tolerant of other Unicode encodings. 19:55:11 no 19:55:13 No 19:55:14 UTF-16 is shitty 19:55:18 UTF-16 is godawful 19:55:19 the only acceptable other encoding 19:55:20 UTF-32 is a joke 19:55:23 is UCS-4 19:55:28 because it stores each character 19:55:29 as-is 19:55:30 end of 19:55:31 Only internally. 19:55:36 meh 19:55:37 And then we just call it int[] 19:55:40 it's not a bad encoding inherently 19:55:41 I said "tolerant", not fond of. 19:55:49 GregorR: String = [Char] = UCS-4 in Haskell 19:55:58 UTF-8 is the only Unicode encoding I want in common use. 19:56:12 ehird: OK, we who program in lower-level languages call it int[] :P 19:56:13 (aside from implementation; UCS-4 is nice as an internal representation) 19:56:27 GregorR: Speak for yourself. 19:56:40 ehird: latin-1 _is_ the first 256 code points of Unicode. 19:56:45 We who program in lower-level languages call that uint_32. 19:56:46 !haskell putStrLn "\202\157jao\204\175" 19:56:47 oerjan: true 19:56:48 ʝjao̯ 19:56:52 Success! 19:56:57 If I could choose the transport encoding we used, I would choose UCS-4. 19:57:04 There is no reason for such anglo-centricity. 19:57:08 But backwards compatibility, 19:57:09 How 'bout UCS-4.gz :P 19:57:10 and popularity, 19:57:11 dictate. 19:57:12 -!- calamari has joined. 19:57:14 !haskell print "ʝ" 19:57:14 Can we all agree on UCS-4.gz? 19:57:17 So UTF-8 it is. 20:06:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:08:01 http://bash.org/?482717 <-- bahahah, this is too brilliant 20:10:04 :D 20:11:37 :D 20:14:07 :D 20:14:49 :E 20:14:54 :D 20:15:13 :D 20:15:14 :-D 20:18:52 I'm glad you all enjoyed that quote so much. 20:19:35 hi 20:19:48 'lo 20:20:53 ehird, I'm quite happy with ubuntu. Just one thing: I need a kernel patch to make the hard disk protection thingy work. Not a kernel module, but a patch to the SATA controller driver thingy. Any hints for how to do this under Ubuntu? 20:21:11 You don't. 20:21:14 ehird, or I could upgrade to 2.6.31-rc4 to make it work 20:21:19 Exactly. 20:22:00 ehird, that isn't in ubuntu yet though :P 20:22:20 You report a bug asking for it to be backported. 20:22:29 ehird, point is: everything works except sending the "park the damn head NOW!!" message to the disk 20:22:36 Yep. 20:23:34 ehird, the ubuntu/debian package for the protection daemon has a README that tells debian and ubuntu users to patch their kernel if they want it to work. Doesn't say how though 20:23:53 ehird, oh and there is a fun opengl thing you can use to view the sensor. It shows a model of a generic laptop move around as you move the laptop 20:23:55 AnMaster: Building one manually and putting it in /boot. 20:24:00 Of course, that breaks easy updating and the like. 20:24:15 AnMaster: But, using apt you can get the source, do your patch, then tell apt to build it. 20:24:19 And install that dpkg. 20:24:28 As, e.g. kernelpackagename-sata-patch. 20:24:33 it is useful actually... Because the sensor is mounted differently in different models. I had to tell the driver mine was mounted with X inverted 20:24:36 Then remove it before upgrading to a new kernel. 20:24:53 ehird, hm thanks 20:25:07 AnMaster: But don't build the kernel yourself or use the stock source. 20:25:10 That's unlikely to go well. 20:25:13 ehird, now I know in what direction to look :) thanks a lot 20:25:17 ehird, I realise that 20:25:21 AnMaster: Anyway, is it really important until the upgrade? 20:25:24 It is a bit of a pain to do, and... 20:26:08 ehird, btw I had to manually poke some configs to make Fn-F8 work. Ubuntu had a *broken* script for handling it 20:26:15 Fn-F8? 20:26:18 issue: it broke when they changed X to use HAL 20:26:31 ehird, supposed to disable the touchpad (but not the trackpoint) 20:26:36 useful when you are typing 20:26:50 sadly it also disables the upper set of click buttons it seems. 20:26:55 Probably a driver issue. Not sure 20:27:52 I think that's probably a feature. 20:27:59 AnMaster: Anyway, you enjoying Ubuntu? This is with Gnome? 20:28:03 Who are you and what did you do to AnMaster? 20:28:07 Ewwwwww gnome 20:28:10 (And, thank you for doing whatever it was.) 20:28:14 ehird, well yes. I installed two KDE apps though: konsole and kate 20:28:21 can't live without those 20:28:28 …Konsole is your KDE killer app? 20:28:38 It's… just a terminal! 20:28:39 ehird, there are more: 20:28:47 k3b for example 20:28:59 Well yeah, but Brasero etc. 20:29:07 I can't see how Konsole possibly does anything that another terminal doesn't. 20:29:13 ehird, looked at it, seems to lack a lot of the stuff you can do in k3b 20:29:28 Gnome lacks a lot of things, that's kinda the point. 20:29:37 What was the reason for you to run Ubuntu anyway? 20:29:37 But I think Brasero does most everything. 20:29:59 ehird, maybe I should take another look at it then 20:30:14 Can you explain what on earth Konsole does? I'm at a loss. 20:30:21 FireFly: that this is a laptop and I need stuff like easy changing between different networks and so on to *just work* 20:30:36 Right 20:30:48 BeholdMyGlory runs Arch on his laptop 20:30:57 arch worked nicely but I couldn't get a network manager thingy to work well on it. Part of the issue is still on ubuntu though: Buggy wlan driver when WPA2-PSK is used 20:31:01 Yes, because he wants to enlarge his e-glory! 20:31:03 BADUM TISH 20:31:04 Yeah, and it works perfectly fine! 20:31:05 ehird: It's a nice terminal. 20:31:16 And, you could've gone Kubuntu if you wanted KDE.. 20:31:26 for now I recommend you avoid the iwlagn driver 20:31:33 Killer app, though? 20:31:36 that includes most modern intel wireless cards 20:31:39 AnMaster: Tried wicd? 20:31:41 pikhq, kate too 20:31:54 gnome-terminal does like… everything Konsole does. 20:31:58 Because neither does much at all 20:32:02 Kate is, um, an editor. 20:32:08 Nice if you like that sort of thing. 20:32:12 BeholdMyGlory, yeah. After netcfg. Anyway the driver bug means you need a multi-minute timeout for wpa_supplicant 20:32:20 something which ubuntu seems to have anyway 20:32:58 kate is wonderful, I can see the point of wanting it 20:33:03 another nice thing about thinkpads is that you can tell the hardware to not charge battery more than x %, and only start charging if less than y % 20:33:10 But yeah, I agree konsole is just another terminal 20:33:12 this is to prolong battery lifetime 20:33:25 FireFly: I can understand Kate, but Konsole's only extra features are things like transparency and silly colour schemes. 20:33:30 Odd. 20:33:33 getting that to work under ubuntu required exactly as much fiddling as under arch linux 20:33:52 AnMaster: Yes, doing highly custom things on Ubuntu isn't any easier. 20:33:55 ehird: And, of course, being a KDE application. 20:33:55 Yup, pretty much my thought, ehird 20:33:56 :P 20:33:58 Ubuntu is easier for 90% of things 20:34:00 FireFly, what about kbabel though? 20:34:09 pikhq: More like an anti-feature. 20:34:09 that is the best .po editor I ever used 20:34:10 Which counts for quite a bit if you want integrated applications. ;) 20:34:14 Qt is a nice toolkit, but… 20:34:17 The KDE libraries? 20:34:20 I much prefer Gnome's. 20:34:27 AnMaster: Yes, doing highly custom things on Ubuntu isn't any easier. <-- sometimes harder even. 20:34:31 I mean, on a non-desktop-environment system, I'd prefer Gnome things over KDE. 20:34:39 AnMaster: Yes, well, "so don't do that". 20:34:55 I'd be much happier with either if they used Objective C. 20:35:01 ehird: Ubuntu is easier when you want your computer to do what the folks behind Ubuntu want it to do. Kind of like Windows and Microsoft. 20:35:10 BeholdMyGlory: You're an idiot. 20:35:11 * AnMaster wonders how much a separate -dev package actually saves in disk space. And how much is wasted in extra metadata for a separate package... 20:35:18 both are probably insignificant 20:35:23 Also, a troll. Also, a hateboy. 20:35:24 well, I guess for most packages 20:35:26 C++ can be wrangled into being acceptable, but C... Urgh. 20:35:28 Hateboys are worse than fanboys… 20:35:37 pikhq: Yeah, I'm talking about the end result. 20:35:41 Gobject is such an awful way of doing things. 20:35:42 pikhq: Also— Vala. 20:35:49 It's C# for GObject. 20:35:54 ehird: That is purely a matter of taste. 20:35:55 BeholdMyGlory, be reasonable, it is much better than windows 20:36:03 GObject's saner when you consider internals. 20:36:13 Anyway, Ubuntu is JUST as flexible as Arch and Debian. 20:36:22 I just installed XP in virtualbox... 20:36:24 It just does things a certain way unless you change it. 20:36:28 The end result, well. Both KDE and Gnome are decent, usable systems, which make different UI choices. 20:36:36 ehird, you said XP used non-browser windows update too? 20:36:40 pikhq: I wouldn't really find KDE usable for day-to-day 20:36:40 In SP3? 20:36:47 About as meaningful as Vi vs. Emacs. 20:36:47 AnMaster: at least i remember it being so 20:36:48 AnMaster: Well, okay, but still. I really feel less powerful when using Ubuntu desktop than when using Arch 20:36:50 ehird, fact: it doesn't. 20:36:59 AnMaster: It sure did for me. 20:37:00 s/desktop // 20:37:13 BeholdMyGlory: Behold my glory. Feel less powerful. 20:37:19 Sounds like you have a bit of a god complex thing going on there. 20:37:30 ehird, I have it open atm. Yes there is the *auto update* thingy separate from the browser. But that is only "poll in background" at some point and download + install any updates 20:37:36 you can't see a list of them it seems 20:37:37 AnMaster: Hrm, okay. 20:37:45 or tell it to "check for updates now" 20:37:45 I remember seeing a list. 20:37:54 Oh, well that's silly. 20:37:56 ehird, well, I didn't get one... 20:38:02 That's the computaar's jobe. 20:38:17 ehird, well it isn't silly if you have a connection like ais does 20:38:32 ehird: Not really, I just want my computer to do what I tell it to do, nothing more. No daemons starting by themselves without me making them do so, etc. 20:38:49 BeholdMyGlory: That was meant to be a *disproof* of what I said?! 20:38:54 BeholdMyGlory, err. What OS do you use? 20:39:06 AnMaster: MagneticBitTwiddling 2009 edition 20:39:12 AnMaster: Arch 20:39:15 I AM IN CONTROL. I FEEL CALM WHEN I AM IN CONTROL. IT DOES MY BIDDING. 20:39:23 NOBODY ELSE SHALL ENTER MY ABODE. 20:39:26 :p 20:40:57 ehird, another question is coming shortly. Please stand by while pastebin is loading on the laptop... 20:41:07 Oh, dear. 20:42:33 ehird, http://pastebin.com/d64c65732 <-- HOW? I'm the bash expert here and even I don't know 20:42:47 AnMaster: Ahh, let me think. 20:42:48 if it was a function type would say so 20:42:53 It's not 20:42:58 it works for every package 20:43:01 automatically 20:43:07 AnMaster: package is command-not-foun 20:43:07 d 20:43:16 ehird, hm interesting 20:43:21 * AnMaster checks man bash for that 20:43:28 no 20:43:30 it's not a bash feature 20:43:34 it's an ubuntu package 20:43:38 AnMaster: not hardcoded either 20:43:41 it actually scans your local repo 20:43:50 ehird, how does it hook into bash though... 20:43:53 AnMaster: function is "command-not-found" 20:43:57 and I'm cehcking 20:43:58 checking 20:44:07 set | grep command-not <-- no matches 20:44:13 and set lists functions 20:44:14 huh 20:44:15 oh okay 20:44:17 never mind then 20:44:21 AnMaster: er, I think it's an executable 20:44:24 try "command-not-found butt" 20:44:54 ehird, just gives regular bash message about not finding command-not-found.. Guess the name was something else 20:45:00 AnMaster: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandNotFoundMagic 20:45:05 thanks 20:45:05 Bash has a "command_not_found" handler that is called in the interactive mode when a command is not found. The first argument is the command that is not found. We hook a custom python script into it that has a database (gdbm or similar) with the available commands as keys and some information (like a list of packages it is in) as value. This lookup needs to be fast. This information is assembled from various sources: 20:45:08 so command_not_found 20:45:24 [21:45:14] (jonas@~/scripts/sh)$ command_not_found_handle ac 20:45:25 Programmet "ac" är för närvarande inte installerat. Du kan installera det genom att ange: 20:45:25 sudo apt-get install acct 20:45:30 That's the one 20:45:52 ah yes 20:45:59 AnMaster: anyway, does brasero not do what you wanted? 20:46:07 ehird, it is a function 20:46:10 type prints it 20:46:15 OK 20:46:16 ehird, oh right forgot to look 20:46:18 sec 20:46:37 if it doesn't, you should prolly report it as a bug in Launchpad; while Gnome apps themselves may not have many options, they should be able to produce any result that the "competition" can 20:46:45 unless they're specifically designed to do the simple, common case 20:46:53 Are there any languages that use the Latin alphabet but have no upper- and lower-case? 20:46:58 GregorR: Lojban 20:47:07 Are there any natural languages that use the Latin alphabet but have no upper- and lower-case? 20:47:12 ehird, I can't see an option for making a CD bootable 20:47:13 Lojban is a natural language. 20:47:23 as in: making your own livecd 20:48:34 pretty sure I k3b had it 20:48:38 (yes I used that... once) 20:48:44 Brasero can boot a burnable ISO 20:48:45 not something I need a lot though 20:48:48 but I don't think you can set one 20:48:54 ehird, yes. But *creating* the iso 20:48:56 to begin with 20:48:58 yah 20:49:04 anyway, for most purposes it looks like it is enough 20:49:19 AnMaster: I'll try and avoid mentioning that it'll be using wodim. :) 20:49:23 OH SHI— 20:49:52 ehird, I did look for cdrecord and was slightly amused that it didn't include it 20:49:53 anyway 20:49:58 AnMaster: it IS non-free… 20:50:00 as long as that works on the computer *shrug* 20:50:07 It may be in the non-free repos or universe or sth 20:50:28 (use the Repository too thing in Preferences or Administration (I forget) to enable the extra repo(s)) 20:50:44 ehird, wodim had issues with the dvd drive in my desktop... 20:50:49 Yeah 20:50:54 I was just noting about the repositories. 20:51:10 as long as the app works... 20:51:24 lol, from Wikipedia: 20:51:26 [[Cdrtools - why do Linux distributions create bad forks?, essay from Jörg Schilling referring to cdrkit without mentioning its name]] 20:51:34 the passive-aggressive equivalent of writing a novel without the letter e! 20:51:37 ehird, old 20:51:54 ehird, point is. they did mess it up. As my own experience showed :P 20:52:13 Also known as "bugs". 20:52:24 ehird, regression one too 20:52:47 btw about bootable in k3b... I can't find the option any more... The dialogs changed layout since back then. It was back on 3.5.6 or so 20:52:48 AnMaster: I assume cfunge has never had a regression :P 20:52:57 (the k3b on my desktop is 3.5.10 nowdays) 20:53:01 just hidden somewhere I guess 20:53:30 ehird, of course it had. 20:53:46 AnMaster: Your English just regressed. 20:55:37 ehird, I just came up with one thing that I suspect neither braswhatever or k3b can do: hybrid cds 20:55:46 Braswhatever. 20:55:51 as in ISO/HFS 20:55:55 for Mac OS 20:55:59 not sure if OS X use them too 20:56:04 pre-OS X did 20:56:15 not that I ever needed such a cd 20:56:24 I... dearly miss that feature :-P 20:56:29 s/\.{3}/…/ 20:56:39 ehird, does OS X still use it? Or did it drop it? 20:56:46 I don't think it uses it. 20:56:57 hm 20:57:16 ah right it probably uses .DS_Store or similar to store the needed metadata nowdays 20:57:51 .DS_Store is the bane of my existence. 20:57:56 I wish I could totally obliterate it. 20:58:24 ehird, that is why I avoid inserting any removable media in any mac. 20:58:26 :P 20:58:35 there are some other ones right? 20:58:40 .Trash or such? 20:58:46 That's in ~. 20:59:01 AnMaster: I don't think it puts .DS_Store on removable media. 20:59:03 Not sure, though. 20:59:09 ehird, sure does. 20:59:11 I seen it 20:59:13 Unless you actually do shit to the files in Finder, it won't add them, anyway. 20:59:26 AnMaster: Oh, right; TinkerTool can turn that off, though. 20:59:35 Pre-OS X created a different set of directories files on everything 20:59:40 * AnMaster tries to remember 20:59:46 wait, that's just over a network 20:59:48 whatever 20:59:48 I know for a fact that mkisofs can do that. 21:00:17 And thus wodim can. 21:00:46 mkisofs -hfs foo bar baz -o foo.iso 21:00:52 Same with wodim :P 21:01:21 eglibc is a libc whose feature is "No Drepper". wodim is a CD recorder whose features are "No Schilling" and "regressions". 21:01:23 Yup. 21:02:26 Huh, k3b hasn't been updated for KDE 4. 21:02:38 On FAT, pre-OS X created: TheVolumeSettingPref? Something like that. And RESOURCE.FRK? 21:02:38 In my estimation, "No Drepper" is a killer feature. 21:02:41 stuff like that 21:02:55 and a few more files iirc 21:03:12 You know what KDE 4's biggest stupidity is? 21:03:19 The fucking blue active window shadow. 21:03:22 SHADOWS DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT. 21:03:28 NO, I DON'T CARE IF THEY'RE NEON SHADOWS! 21:03:32 It's FUGLY! 21:03:35 ehird, FindByContent tooo! 21:03:38 too* 21:03:40 that was another one 21:03:47 Schilling? 21:03:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Schilling 21:04:03 ah found a list in: http://www.wellesley.edu/Computing/OSX/Intro/introOSX.html 21:04:07 Deewiant: tl;dr — 21:04:10 similar to tuomov wrt licensing 21:04:15 hates distros doing anything to his software 21:04:17 search for "TheVolumeSettings" to get to the right part 21:04:17 whiny troll 21:04:19 :) 21:04:28 Huh, k3b hasn't been updated for KDE 4. <-- huh indeed 21:04:42 It's FUGLY! <-- change theme? 21:04:46 Guess they're debating whether to rename it to k4b. 21:04:53 AnMaster: They should fix the existing theme :P 21:05:00 No, they're just very slow to port. 21:05:13 Like Konversation. 21:05:19 ehird, oh btw I had to turn off compiz. 3D acceleration for vbox guests is known broken if host is using compiz 21:05:22 KDE 4.3 has a different theme, BTW. 21:05:23 that was easy though 21:05:29 pikhq: no it doesn't 21:05:31 just change to "no effects" and it used metacity 21:05:32 i've looked at the screenshot 21:05:38 or whatever the name was 21:05:41 of the normal gnome one 21:05:42 ehird: Which one? 21:05:56 AnMaster: Metacity can do compositing stuff itself nowadays, iirc. 21:06:00 It may not be compiz. 21:06:12 pikhq: http://kde.org/announcements/announce_4.3-beta1/kcontrol4.png 21:06:46 Gnome Do looks like Quicksilver for Gnome. 21:06:56 That is a Good Thing. 21:06:59 I sincerely hope they just hadn't stuck the new theme in the beta. 21:07:04 Hopefully it's more stable... 21:07:07 ehird, well, it worked fine under metacity. A bit less effects. Seems I can't drag windows between virtual desktops by dragging them to the edge any more 21:07:08 anyway 21:07:10 pikhq: what did it look like? 21:07:13 Because if they're shipping that in final, I'm stabbing someone. 21:07:22 AnMaster: "A bit less effects." aaaaargh 21:07:23 3D in virtualbox seems to work 21:07:25 ehird: Like Oxygen with less fugly. 21:07:39 ehird, well. The effects enabled on the "normal" setting were not too intrusive 21:07:42 I could live with it 21:07:44 The Plasma theme saw much more work. 21:07:47 pikhq: That is not helpful :P 21:08:03 AnMaster: I meant the grammar. 21:08:08 ehird: Called "Ozone". 21:08:24 ehird, oh right. Did I treat "effects" as an uncountable? 21:08:26 http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=39826 not this one, presumably 21:08:49 ah yes I think I did 21:08:50 Gah. The KDE 4.3 RC announcement is using a beta screenshot. 21:08:53 AnMaster: I don't even know, but it should be "A little fewer effects." or something. 21:08:56 still sounds a bit awkward 21:09:02 ehird, indeed as an uncountable then 21:09:17 pikhq: http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/kde43rc1-large_001.jpg 21:09:17 that? 21:09:20 ehird, uncountable: like "water" or "milk" (you can't say, "a"/"an" about them) 21:09:31 AnMaster: ah, right. 21:09:39 ehird: http://kde.org/announcements/announce_4.3-beta1/plasma.png This at least shows the new Plasma stuff. 21:09:50 I would never use Plasma, ever 21:09:55 ehird, "a bit less milk" would have been correct I believe (though rather odd in the context ;) 21:09:56 I hate desktop widgets 21:10:01 ehird, I did... yesterday. Horrible. 21:10:07 well KDE4 I mean 21:10:08 err 21:10:12 day before yesterday? 21:10:13 not sure 21:10:14 whatever 21:10:15 KDE 4 is OK; widgets are not. 21:10:31 The KDE panel is *also* Plasma. 21:10:34 "Let's place useless gadgets… on the place you cover with all your actual stuff!" 21:10:36 "HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" 21:11:09 ehird, synaptic package list (category listing) seems to come in three flavours: 1) "foo" 2) "foo (universe)" 3) "foo (multiverse)" 21:11:12 what the hell is that about 21:11:16 AnMaster: different repos. 21:11:29 ehird, ah. What is the diff between them 21:11:35 AnMaster: Open the repository manager thing in, I think, Administration; it has explanatory text. 21:11:44 ehird, *looks for it* 21:12:03 ehird, "program sources"? 21:12:12 Perhaps. 21:12:16 hm that seems to be mirror server setting 21:12:22 ah and that too 21:12:31 that = repos 21:12:54 ehird, ok... now why on earth is the linux kernel in "restricted"? 21:13:08 AnMaster: What? 21:13:19 AnMaster: Ubuntu add binary blob WiFi drivers and the like. 21:13:20 HURR MAKE NO SENSE YAY. 21:13:22 wait maybe I misread 21:13:24 * AnMaster looks again 21:13:28 Maybe you did. 21:14:28 actually I did. It is just that it installed "linux-restricted-modules-2.6.18-13-generic" by default. And when I was looking there yesterday it was middle of night. 5 minutes before I decided to go to bed 21:14:38 explains it 21:15:38 hm 21:15:48 any way to tell ubuntu to turn off bluetooth by default 21:15:55 Why? 21:16:02 But, look in the regular places. 21:16:03 ehird, battery time 21:16:11 I don't think it'll affect that much. 21:16:15 ehird, and easy to forget to turn it off every time it wakes up 21:17:29 ehird, powertop thinks it is roughly half a watt. And powertop running on idle system (on battery) is roughly 11.5 W 21:17:36 with wireless turned on 21:17:47 not a lot no, but I want to maximise battery time 21:17:53 AnMaster: Okay, now, half a watt will get you seconds. 21:17:55 And I mean seconds 21:18:04 Not worth crippling in any way for. 21:18:22 You already have the extra battery cells. 21:18:32 ehird, battery time estimate jumped up by about 10 minutes after I turned bluetooth off though 21:18:34 :P 21:18:38 heh 21:18:57 ehird, so I guess either the "half watt" is very aprox. Or your calculation is off 21:19:17 AnMaster: consider that your CPU takes up 35 watts 21:19:18 or the estimated time is wrong 21:19:22 hard drive, 10 watts 21:19:26 maybe less 21:19:33 RAM, about two watts per stick 21:19:46 ehird, um. if total system drain on battery was calculated to 11 W. CPU can't be 35 W then 21:19:52 AnMaster: at load. 21:20:06 HD will be about 3w at idle 21:20:28 ehird, well true. But I suspect most of the time I will actually just type during lectures and such 21:20:32 well both of course 21:20:46 it won't be full load 21:21:07 I'm just saying that half a watt is rather pointless. 21:21:43 ehird, btw virtualbox is strange. It forwarded the battery status to the VM... 21:21:47 yes really 21:21:55 That's not strange. 21:21:57 That's well-integrated. 21:22:18 If you install the driver things, the cursor movement is fluid, too. 21:22:22 As it uses the host's. 21:22:33 AnMaster: a lot of VMs can also, given a Windows guest, integrate those Windows. 21:22:37 ehird, well, I wonder if it will let the VM change anything... 21:22:38 i.e., they hover like normal windows 21:22:40 use the same taskbar 21:22:47 same taskbar icon set etc 21:22:49 if so I bet windows will mess stuff up 21:22:57 ehird, about that integration thingy: Not very 21:23:00 those are mostly the paid ones like Parallels and VMWare Fusion for the Mac 21:23:01 sure it worked. BUT: 21:23:13 I got the start menu bard just above the gnome task bar 21:23:14 AnMaster: It won't let it do anything to the host, no. 21:23:17 as in double task bars 21:23:20 You can do it, with some effort. 21:23:23 not what I expected 21:23:25 But you have to explicitly let it. 21:23:41 AnMaster: Yeah, the Mac VM products generally add a dock button that opens the Start menu. 21:23:50 And use dock icons for applications, etc. 21:24:01 ehird, well not just start menu. The whole windows taskbar thingy 21:24:06 I know. 21:24:07 with start menu and so on 21:24:13 I was saying how better-integrating products do it. 21:25:10 http://lispm.dyndns.org/symbolics-ui-examples/Bild-95.png 21:25:51 ehird, btw, I managed to get windows XP to use the SATA controller in virtualbox (yes I got the binary version since I need USB support too)... Was quite fun 21:26:13 did you use a package for the binary one or downloaded it? 21:26:16 I think Ubuntu has a package for it 21:26:41 ehird, I checked: no package for it. Not even in restricted. Or searching for "virtualbox" and checking the full list didn't turn it up at least 21:26:50 AnMaster: The open source one is -ose. 21:26:55 The regular virtualbox one is the closed source one. 21:26:58 ehird, yes that one is there 21:26:58 Right in front of you, I'd guess. 21:27:04 but there is no non-ose 21:27:18 AnMaster: Did you enable the other repository in Software Sources? 21:27:24 *repositories, maybe 21:27:25 ehird, which one? 21:27:34 there are many 21:27:42 No, there's about 4. 21:27:56 well all four on the first page are enabled 21:28:02 OK, then. 21:28:07 that is: main, universe, restricted, multiverse 21:28:46 AnMaster: Well, I assume you used the .deb from Sun, anyway. 21:28:52 As opposed to wantonly make installing. 21:29:07 ehird, I used the *.deb from them yes 21:29:26 you should know I'm obsessed with "everything should be known by package manager" 21:29:31 unless it is in ~/local 21:29:41 AnMaster: Aha! But! 21:29:42 I'm pretty sure we "discussed" that before in here :P 21:29:43 checkinstall. 21:29:59 ehird, is that the "create package on fly" one? Right? 21:30:02 Yep. 21:30:07 ~/local instantly evaporates in the face the of pulverising package manager dictatorship!! 21:30:11 *of the 21:30:25 ehird, except ~/local is nice for multiple versions side by side in a painless way 21:30:43 True. But that's rare. 21:30:58 -!- jix_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:31:04 ehird, I test cfunge under old gcc too. Back to 3.4 21:31:09 -!- jix has joined. 21:31:13 gentoo installs them side by side 21:31:18 there are multiple-version gcc packages in Debian/Ubuntu 21:31:18 and I guess so can ubuntu 21:31:21 yeah 21:31:29 AnMaster: How 'bout EGCS? 21:31:31 ehird, indeed. But there are other packages like that. What about bash? 21:31:41 when you want to check your shell script works in old versions 21:32:20 I have bash 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 4.0 (last sub version for each as of about two weeks ago) 21:32:29 * AnMaster ponders vpn 21:32:48 maybe I should learn how it works. Probably easier to *use* than ssh tunnel? 21:33:01 GregorR, I don't even go back to pre-3.4 so :P 21:33:43 * AnMaster takes out an "office xp" cd 21:33:45 ehird, :P 21:34:09 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:35:34 btw the cd here is annoying ehird 21:35:35 know why? 21:35:39 I've got ~/local mostly in use for scripts. 21:35:41 it spins down very quickly 21:35:49 as in. half a second maybe one second 21:35:57 irritating if you are installing a cd or such 21:36:06 the sound constantly changes 21:36:16 sure better while on battery for the battery power I guess 21:36:20 but I'm on AC now... 21:38:38 -!- jix has joined. 21:40:47 bbl 21:45:56 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:46:07 -!- jix has joined. 21:48:59 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit). 21:49:18 -!- jix has joined. 21:57:32 pikhq, my scripts are in ~/bin 21:57:42 ~/local/bin. 21:57:43 usually 21:58:11 pikhq, I use ~/local/// as --prefix 21:58:29 I usually use the version bit always nowdays 21:59:15 most stuff in ~/local are large and complex programs.~/local/wesnoth/svn, ~/local/llvm/svn and such that installs lots of files in --prefix 22:00:39 ~/local/valgrind/svn too. valgrind hardcodes paths into the binaries at build time. 22:00:52 for rather good reasons that are too complex to explain atm 22:02:24 ubuntus help app thingy crashed 22:02:28 sigsegv 22:02:29 heh 22:02:32 well 22:02:37 gnome's too I guess 22:02:52 system logs says the binary was "yelp" 22:03:46 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:03:58 -!- jix has joined. 22:10:15 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:10:26 -!- jix has joined. 22:10:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:17:35 `define yelp 22:17:37 * bark in a high-pitched tone; "the puppies yelped" \ * yip: a sharp high-pitched cry (especially by a dog) \ [17]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn 22:19:58 also gnome help browser thingy 22:22:52 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:23:03 -!- jix has joined. 22:30:34 AnMaster: did you send the crash report? 22:32:50 ehird, didn't get any dialog about the crash 22:32:52 so no 22:33:04 AnMaster: might have done it automatically 22:33:23 With the release of Ubuntu 6.10, Ubuntu includes Apport[6]. 22:33:23 Apport works by installing a userspace helper which intercepts user processes when they would usually dump core, and writes crash reports to a staging location. A user daemon then invites the user to submit new crash reports to Ubuntu for analysis.[7] 22:33:25 ehird, Microsoft at least asks first. At least in XP 22:33:26 Apport is disabled by default on official end-user-facing releases of Ubuntu. 22:33:35 AnMaster: if it's anonymous it doesn't really matter 22:33:36 ah 22:33:48 ehird, well coredump could contain passwords and such 22:33:49 crash reports are a nice way of reporting bugs 22:33:56 it just automatically *poof*! 22:34:00 anyway: can't reproduce 22:34:11 AnMaster: could easily have a tag on stuff. 22:34:11 like 22:34:21 APPORT_REDACT char *pw; 22:34:34 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport seems you can just choose 22:34:39 um? In the source code? For every program? 22:34:46 Well, I guess they could do that 22:34:49 AnMaster: obviously as part of a desktop environment 22:35:04 tagging values like that is a good idea for other things too anyway 22:35:14 *anyhow, perhaps 22:35:17 I like the word anyhow 22:35:17 not sure I would want to check the whole source code of large apps if I was a package maintainer. 22:35:24 Lets say: read every line in wireshark? 22:35:28 well not a good example 22:35:34 AnMaster: wireshark isn't part of Gnome. 22:35:39 what about firefox or thunderbird 22:35:47 also not part of gnome 22:35:48 ehird, ok. So it only applies to official gnome apps? 22:35:50 prompt for those 22:35:54 AnMaster: opt-in, rather 22:36:07 but all official gnome apps would, yeah 22:36:25 AnMaster: remember that all law-abiding gnome apps already adhere to something far more precise 22:36:27 the HIG 22:36:41 fun fact: the HIG dictates that windows should be as close to 1:phi in size as possible 22:36:44 (width:height) 22:41:30 http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php 22:42:22 GregorR: make a neural network for rating dinosaur comics based on their pixel colour codes 22:42:31 X_X 22:42:35 basically what you're doing with colormatcher but that's only 1x1 22:42:43 You're a fucking retard. 22:42:44 Period. 22:43:07 GregorR: Dude, that's gross. Why would I have sex with a mentally disabled person on their period? 22:43:19 Low blow, man. 22:43:21 I don't know, you tell me, you're the one that's doing it. 22:43:30 Because you said I was! 22:43:50 I am a beautiful flower. 22:43:53 Beautiful, and sinless. 22:44:24 Not cos(less), though. 22:44:27 HYUK HYUK HYUK 22:44:37 darn i was _just_ going to say that 22:44:42 :D 22:44:50 GregorR: it's not very nice to call people retards. 22:45:02 oklopol: you do realise you did that to me before ignoring me, right? :D 22:45:10 oklopol: It's not intended to be nice. It's intended to be an insult. So, "duh"? 22:45:42 * oerjan notes that the "retired" meme hasn't spread here. probably been retired because it was retired. 22:46:06 well i was just joking, but it's not very nice to insult people either 22:46:12 oerjan: it has spread here. 22:46:14 For a few seconds. 22:46:16 By me. 22:46:21 ah. 22:46:29 If you don't think that's spreading, you're retired. 22:46:31 ...ah? 22:46:41 right i should really try to remember ehird 22:46:41 oklopol: See, this is what you get for ignoring people! 22:46:43 :P 22:46:46 They were just born without oxygen. 22:46:59 it is kind of hard to work without oxygen, i think 22:47:07 vacuumitis 22:47:37 oklopol: See, this is what you get for ignoring people! <<< yes, that's why i only do it as a last resort 22:47:37 Vacyourmomitis. 22:47:41 (warning: not up to my usual latin grammar standards) 22:47:47 oklopol: evidently you have failed at your task 22:47:48 or wait 22:47:50 are you MENTALLY ignoring me? 22:47:53 that would be some feat 22:48:01 or just clogging, which, y'know, isn't really ignoring 22:48:03 we all know oklopol has mental feats 22:48:11 but if you're mentally ignoring me and didn't notice I said anything and thus got confused, that's amazing 22:49:55 ehird: i'm reading logs, yes, i do want to know what you say, it's about controlling the amount of interaction. 22:50:20 oklopol: will you marry me? FAIL TO INTERACT AT *THAT*! 22:50:50 Gay pedastric marriage ... PROBABLY not legal. 22:51:08 GregorR: Guess what other love wasn't legal? 22:51:10 ALAN TURING'S. 22:51:18 Turing 22:51:20 ARGH 22:51:22 (Turing's law, I know, I know.) 22:51:22 I WAS ACTUALLY TYPING THAT 22:51:25 :D 22:51:38 I was actually typing "Turing's ... for, uh, that guy?" 22:51:46 Turing for oklopol. 22:51:51 *Turing's 22:54:58 oklopol: by silently not interacting, you're interacting very loudly 22:58:21 huh got permission denied as root on ubuntu when accessing /home//.gvfs ... found it due to some root command running find and that reporting an error 22:59:26 AnMaster: Check logs for AVC denials? 22:59:39 Ilari, AVC is? SELinux? 22:59:52 Access Vector Cache. Part of SELinux. 22:59:58 ubuntu doesn't use selinux... 22:59:59 afaik 23:00:15 Ilari, selinux isn't enabled... though /selinux exists. But there are no files in there 23:00:51 AnMaster: What 'ls -ld' says about it? 23:01:03 AnMaster: is this on the ubuntu machine? 23:01:07 I guess not. 23:01:12 Ilari, as normal user? nothing. As root: permission denined 23:01:17 ehird, yes ubuntu 23:01:32 Ilari, on -l too sec... 23:01:35 AnMaster: /selinux shouldn't exist… 23:01:39 oh* 23:02:01 Ilari, dr-x------ for permissions 23:02:26 ehird, check your livecd with 9.04? 23:02:29 AnMaster: Huh, ls should say something about it if it exists... 23:02:29 -!- Ilari has quit ("Reconnecting"). 23:02:32 ehird, it is there too 23:02:32 AnMaster: lazy 23:02:33 -!- Ilari has joined. 23:02:36 but selinux is an optional in ubuntu 23:02:39 as far as i know 23:02:40 Ilari, yes I misunderstood you 23:02:42 so i doubt it's enabled 23:02:43 as in ls -l 23:03:03 Ilari, copy paste to irc is a bit painful. haven't set up irc on it yet at all 23:03:11 so irc is on different computer 23:03:15 It'd take two seconds... 23:03:20 s/\.{3}/…/ 23:03:21 ehird, indeed it is disabled 23:03:34 Applications → Install/Remove → XChat Gnome → Tick → Install → Double click. 23:03:36 ehird, really? bouncer is set to listen to 127.0.0.1 ... 23:03:38 It even preconnects to Freenode. 23:03:43 (Well, irc.ubuntu.com; same thing.) 23:03:43 on my desktop 23:03:49 so a bit more 23:03:51 AnMaster: works as a temporary solution, no? 23:03:57 ehird, yep 23:03:58 as opposed to using a pastebin or manually retyping 23:05:16 -!- anmaster_ub has joined. 23:05:20 here we go 23:05:30 Ilari: 23:05:31 arvid@dragon:~$ ls -ld .gvfs/ 23:05:32 dr-x------ 2 arvid arvid 0 Jul 26 21:19 .gvfs/ 23:05:44 arvid@dragon:~$ sudo ls -ld .gvfs 23:05:44 ls: cannot access .gvfs: Permission denied 23:05:50 0 size directory, huh? 23:05:57 anmaster_ub: your client doth not respond to version! 23:06:08 ehird, err? 23:06:13 ehird, it is xchat anyway 23:06:15 *shrug* 23:06:16 'struth 23:06:23 also xchat gnome > xchat >_> 23:06:37 and it uses Swedish dict with no alternative to change 23:06:45 * anmaster_ub needs newer xchat to be able to use xchat then 23:07:09 Ilari, ext4 issues? 23:07:12 I have no idea 23:07:30 arvid@dragon:~$ file .gvfs/ 23:07:31 .gvfs/: directory 23:07:45 Ilari, anyway the directory is empty 23:08:05 but maybe I should fsck from live cd... 23:08:13 Well, maybe empty directory appears as 0 size on Ext4. Some filesystems have empty directories appear as size >0 (Reiserfs has 48 bytes for empty dir). 23:08:29 nop: 23:08:44 arvid@dragon:~$ mkdir tmp 23:08:48 arvid@dragon:~$ ls -ld tmp 23:08:48 drwxr-xr-x 2 arvid arvid 4096 Jul 27 00:08 tmp 23:09:20 iirc gvfs is some "gnome virtual filesystem" thingy 23:09:29 but I can't imagine it fucking things up that much 23:09:38 wait *looks at /proc/mounts* 23:09:43 anmaster_ub: Fuse? 23:09:48 Ilari, yes 23:09:51 gvfs-fuse-daemon /home/arvid/.gvfs fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0 23:10:04 not sure what it is good for 23:10:42 ehird, xchat-gnome package desc: "GNOME's philosophy in terms of user interfaces has been progressing towards 23:10:43 presenting the user with few options, yet sane defaults. While many of the 23:10:43 normal X-Chat options will be preserved inside GConf, only the most common 23:10:43 settings will be included in the main user interface." 23:10:46 (sorry for spam) 23:10:50 anmaster_ub: Well, that might explain the EACCESS. 23:10:57 anyway when I use xchat I tend to change nearly all the options 23:11:06 anmaster_ub: Yes, but xchat-gnome's defaults are less retarded. 23:11:25 ehird, I'll give it a try but I'm not optimistic 23:11:34 Ilari, yes... nfs seems to do that too to root btw 23:11:36 Oh, right. GVFS is the FUSE binding to the GNOME virtual filesystem. 23:11:42 -!- Pthing has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:11:46 pikhq, what is it good for 23:11:55 Accessing gnome virtual filesystems. 23:12:27 and what are those? 23:12:37 Filesystems in Gnome that are not actual local filesystems. 23:12:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:12:50 oh you mean like nfs and such? 23:12:52 Hello, ais523. 23:12:54 -!- Pthing has joined. 23:12:55 or rather 23:12:57 like sshfs? 23:13:01 and similar 23:13:03 Most everything Nautilus can browse that is not actually mounted. 23:13:13 pikhq, I haven't used nautilus much yet... 23:13:19 feel much more at home in a good terminal 23:13:25 ais523: You might want to leave, the universe is being destroyed. Specifically, AnMaster is using Ubuntu and Gnome and being relatively okay with it. 23:13:29 anmaster_ub: You know KDE's KIO? That, but GNOME. 23:13:37 I mean, it's kind of embarrassing watching the universe be destroyed, you know? 23:13:44 pikhq, to me konq is mostly a web browser... 23:13:49 ehird: is there an emoticon to indicate that you might be slightly stroppy due to events in RL, and are generally annoyed, but not at anybody in this channel? 23:13:51 if there is, I use it 23:13:57 and hi 23:13:59 ais523: Yes, "/part" 23:14:05 ehird: no, it's sort of the opposite 23:14:05 ehird, does xchat-gnome in ubuntu support multiple languages for spell checking *and allows you to change on the fly at runtime* 23:14:13 ais523: Stops it affecting anyone else 23:14:17 anmaster_ub: That's handled by Gnome. 23:14:18 ehird: ah, fair enough 23:14:21 ehird, ...? 23:14:30 anmaster_ub: Spelling correction is Gnome-wide. 23:14:36 ais523: I was joking, though 23:14:41 ehird, well I want different languages for different channels 23:14:51 so I need to either store it per channel or change on the fly 23:14:51 anmaster_ub: Stop making typos 23:14:58 anmaster_ub: Anyway, look in Gnome settings. 23:15:00 ehird, newer xchat has the feature 23:15:04 There's probably a way to use both dictionaries. 23:15:06 in the context menu 23:15:16 this xchat on ubuntu is too old 23:15:27 or wrong compile time options 23:15:30 xchat-gnome was last released in 2007 :P 23:15:33 ah too old 23:15:40 (Although there's been an svn commit as recently as three months ago.) 23:15:41 hm wait 23:15:49 ah yes 23:16:06 Ooh, four days, even. 23:16:12 http://git.gnome.org/cgit/xchat-gnome/log/ 23:16:16 it only works when compiled against aspell directly. As opposed to for example gnome-spelling 23:16:18 or whatever 23:16:24 for stock xchat 23:16:33 anmaster_ub: Just see if you can use two dictionaries globally at once in Gnome. 23:16:34 That'll do the trick. 23:16:48 ehird, where would the setting be hidden? 23:16:59 That kind of thing wouldn't go in GConf. 23:17:01 Probably in Preferences. 23:17:12 ehird, you mean as in a union of two dicts? 23:17:17 Yeah. 23:17:30 Unless "tho" → "the" is an insanely common Swedish typo you make or something it should work fine. 23:17:35 that is highly useless. Means I won't notice telephone/telefon (one is English, the other Swedish) 23:17:50 I can't think of an elegant way to do it system-wide /shrug 23:18:00 Anyway, I'm going to assume that Swedish people know what telephone means. 23:18:05 Also, typing ph instead of f is pretty damn hard. 23:18:06 ehird, recompile xchat against stock aspell backend seems like the only way :P 23:18:43 ehird, no... I often mix up what language I'm typing in when talking in *Swedish* channels :P 23:19:17 Well that's okay. Anyway, let me introduce myself, for mi'e ,Eli.at.xrd. 23:19:22 *eli 23:19:27 ehird: what, you're learning Lojban? 23:19:38 I'm actually more surprised at that than at AnMaster using Ubuntu 23:19:44 Shouldn't there be a la in there? 23:19:47 ais523: No, I learned how to introduce myself and say "I say ''" in 2007 23:19:49 . 23:19:51 s/\n\././ 23:19:57 ah wait... not against aspell directly... *against gtkspell* ... 23:19:59 I want to learn Lojban sometime, though. 23:20:01 * Sgeo is clueless 23:20:02 ais523: Why's it surprising, anyway? 23:20:03 misread ebuild on gentoo 23:20:10 ehird: 'xrd' is a great way to spell your surname 23:20:10 I learned a bit of lojban a while ago 23:20:18 ais523: There's a more accurate way, iirc. 23:20:22 Warrigal came up with it or something. 23:20:25 That may have been for my first name. 23:20:26 anmaster_ub: I suspect Ubuntu will learn a lot from you 23:20:30 anyway now to figure out how in ubuntu. Hopefully this won't involve recompiling... or ehird will go mad 23:20:38 I can say the man is a woman. le nanmu cu ninmu 23:20:40 ais523: No, he'll try and teach them something and they'll call him bonkers :-P 23:20:49 ehird: ah yes 23:20:53 I mean 'could', not 'will' 23:21:04 * ais523 is annoyed at Ubuntu's typical bug response 23:21:04 "OK, now that I can use a language per channel, I'd like to be able to switch dictionaries mid-sentence." 23:21:09 it's considerably worse than Debian's 23:21:10 "…I hate you, Norlander." 23:21:13 ais523, anyway I want things to work... And I thought ubuntu was all about *sane defaults* 23:21:17 anmaster_ub: It is! 23:21:19 which they managed rather well 23:21:20 You're just not sane. 23:21:21 but not here 23:21:33 ehird, English + native language is rather common 23:21:37 you are just from UK 23:21:40 I'm joking, sheesh. 23:21:46 anmaster_ub: I'd say that wanting to use multiple languages in one situation can't possibly be a default 23:21:53 what you're complaining about is that it can't easily be customised 23:22:13 ais523, I just want to be able to change dict for spell checking in xchat on the fly 23:22:17 it works on gentoo 23:22:26 when you right click input field 23:22:31 yet it doesn't in ubuntu 23:22:33 Yes, but Ubuntu make X-Chat use the Gnome spelling correction. 23:22:40 So that, you know, things are CONSISTENT and INTEGRATED. 23:22:45 Which is… kind of the point. 23:22:47 ehird, and that is not gtkspell? 23:22:50 ais523: anyway, why is me learning Lojban surprising? 23:22:56 anmaster_ub: I don't know. 23:23:01 ehird: just I have a mental list of Lojban users, and you aren't on it 23:23:03 neither am I, fwiw 23:23:14 Lojban is awesome. 23:23:24 I'm going to ask #lojban how best to Lojbanise my name now. 23:23:42 ais523: "xrd" does annoy me a bit; I seem to recall the problem is that Lojban simply doesn't have an h. 23:23:43 Well, ' is h. 23:23:46 But it's punctuation. 23:23:49 Sort of. 23:23:55 Or maybe no "i". 23:23:55 heh, same as ancient greek 23:23:59 wait lets see if this works brb 23:23:59 h was an accent over vowels 23:24:02 No, wait. 23:24:03 rather than a letter 23:24:06 It has "i", but it's "ee". 23:24:10 Not "eye". 23:24:18 -!- anmaster_ub has quit ("Lmnar"). 23:24:24 "hurd" would be closer to the pronouciation you want, wouldn't it be? 23:24:30 fucking l10n quit message... 23:24:30 or am I wrong as to how to say your name? 23:24:46 AnMaster: I'm relatively sure the default quit message /can/ be changed 23:25:02 e'erd 23:25:04 >.> 23:25:06 yes... just the defaults... 23:25:17 Wow, it defaulted to using the language everything else does. 23:25:19 Crazy! 23:25:19 anyway ubuntu would be horrible on a desktop 23:25:25 …………………………………what? 23:25:31 good for laptops with changing configuration and so on 23:25:41 but a desktop? You don't connect to different networks all the time 23:25:42 Oh, you mean "I hate Ubuntu but can tolerate it here". 23:25:44 and so on 23:25:52 Not "Ubuntu would be objectively terrible on non-portable computers". 23:25:58 oh, I think I see AnMaster's point here 23:25:59 ehird, I think arch and gentoo > ubuntu when it is on desktops. 23:26:11 Ubuntu is what you'd stick onto a hard-drive that repeatedly got placed into lots of different computers 23:26:18 rather than gentoo 23:26:19 the reason I want ubuntu on a laptop is that stuff like suspending and so on works more or less out of the box 23:26:23 ais523: I see his point, it's just really stupid; Ubuntu's and Gnome's integration does NOT stop at "you can change networks easily", at all. 23:26:24 for what should be blindingly obvious reasons 23:26:35 ehird: yes, but that's what's important for him 23:26:37 ais523, that too 23:26:42 oklopol: are you only ignoring me in here? :D 23:26:57 a portable install on a usb stick? Ubuntu unless it is easier to cram gentoo into there 23:27:06 I know a non-gentoo live cd based on gentoo 23:27:07 ais523: I tend to ignore that because experience shows his priorities are… uh… 23:27:10 ehird: i realized you were right in that i should ignore you mentally 23:27:10 for partitioning and such 23:27:15 works rather well 23:27:29 cannot miss the fact you highlighted me though, guess i should read that one 23:27:40 except, well, that's exactly what i want to ignore i guess :D 23:27:45 oklopol: I apologise you and worship at the altar of your altarification. 23:27:50 ("I apologise you" :D) 23:27:54 -!- anmaster_ub has joined. 23:28:00 urgh still broken... 23:29:01 anmaster_ub: To assure you have an eternal vitriolic hatred of xchat-gnome, note that it hides the user list unless you click "Users". :) 23:29:02 ehird: accepted i guess, i hate ignoring people. 23:29:10 except mental ignoring is actually quite fun 23:29:15 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:29:38 but as i only did it for about 5 minutes, can't say i'm very fluent 23:29:41 ehird, I'm not using xchat-gnome atm... I'm going to try to figure this out first 23:29:44 -!- anmaster_ub has quit (Client Quit). 23:29:55 Surprised he would even try after that. 23:30:06 in a long list of messages from non-ignored people, i tend to automatically start reading messages without checking nick 23:30:20 because you can always tell from content anyway 23:30:22 oklopol: just ignore messages with fnord in them. including this one. if you can start doing this while still ignoring this message, you're amazing. 23:30:33 requires you to also — fnord — know to do it before starting. 23:30:43 which basically means half the time i'm reading the first few words of what i'm supposed to be ignoring 23:31:08 ehird: i can ignore everything after fnord 23:31:17 by not focusing my eyes on it 23:31:21 oklopol: bah! 23:31:26 you were meant to fnord ignore the previous parts too. 23:31:41 basically i'm supposed to forget what i read once i see the fnord? :P 23:32:06 actually, a fnord wasn't supposed to prevent you reading the rest of the line 23:32:19 i am not very good at forgetting stuff actively 23:32:29 it was just the fnord yourself you couldn't notice, but your eyes crossing one made you vaguely uncomfortable 23:32:43 so if enough fnords were sprinkled in something, you'd stop reading it and do something else 23:32:46 oklopol: no you're not meant to read it in the first place 23:32:53 ais523: you do realize i stop reading after your fnords? 23:33:07 I'll save you the fnord 23:33:10 ehird: right. i prefer sticking to stuff that's possible. 23:33:11 :P 23:33:19 *meant to not 23:33:23 doesn't work the other way, sorta 23:33:24 what about doing it XML-style? Do you read this? What about this/ 23:33:44 ais523: i skipped the in-between 23:33:59 except i know what's in-between anyway 23:34:11 i'm not sure that's allowed either 23:34:58 ehird, ais523: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+bug/129514 23:35:06 * ehird grabs popcorn 23:35:18 AnMaster: IME reporting a bug to Ubuntu has no effect 23:35:19 darn, you didn't report it 23:35:24 no matter who reports it 23:35:27 ais523: you're just bitter : 23:35:27 :P 23:35:40 ais523, well that was the wrong one... So much for googling for the same thing on the other computer 23:35:40 s/:\n:P/:P/ 23:35:47 ais523: kinda like voting doesn't matter huh 23:36:03 oklopol: voting has a chance to matter when you do it 23:36:05 admittedly, a small one 23:36:18 i'm sure ubuntu bug reports have a greater chance of that :P 23:36:19 you can think of it this way: I vote due to the possibility that without me, there would be a draw 23:36:29 that's better than not voting 23:36:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:36:38 here we go for now: X forwarding from gentoo 23:36:39 ehird, ^ 23:36:40 :P 23:36:43 also, you can effectively get more than one vote by trying to sway the opinions of others 23:37:07 ais523: OTOH, doing so subversively is evil 23:37:11 ais523: i'm familiar with the basic things you can philosophize about voting. 23:37:16 ehird: yes, I don't do so subversively 23:37:25 I get into interesting political discussions with people instead 23:37:47 and talk about, say, how the Green Party has one of the saner technology policies out of all the parties in the EU elections 23:38:15 I'd have political discussions with people but anyone too far to the right of me tends to be a dangerous psychopath and anyone too far to the left tends to have completely unimplementable idealist theories that irritate the hell out of me 23:38:31 and it's kinda hard to have an interesting political discussion when you both agree almost entirely on everything 23:38:50 politics is stupid 23:38:57 ((ais523: but the pirate party has the sanest)) 23:39:02 well, digital copyright 23:39:05 which is basically a subset. 23:39:06 pirates ARRRRRR 23:39:08 ehird: oh, quite possibly, but they weren't standing in the UK elections 23:39:13 indeed 23:39:15 well, the UK EU elections 23:39:16 if that makes sense 23:39:35 it doesn't, but the EU elections don't, either 23:39:39 ok now I have forwarded it 23:39:48 odd 23:39:54 it uses the local theme settings 23:39:56 for GTK 23:40:28 what's that thing they need people's signatures for for making a party official 23:40:53 oklopol: pregnancy 23:41:14 signed that for the finnish pirate party, because it was during a break between lectures, and i knew no one else would want to be the first to sign it 23:41:18 oklopol, a party of lawyers? 23:41:20 after me, half the people did :P 23:41:24 *shudder* 23:41:49 no no a paper, they collect like names, and when there's enough, they can become a party. or something like that. 23:41:55 I hate lawyers because it's trendy 23:42:01 So what if they're among the most intelligent people 23:42:06 They're eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil 23:42:17 ehird, ? 23:42:24 23:41 AnMaster: oklopol, a party of lawyers? 23:41 AnMaster: *shudder* 23:42:28 laywer jokes are always acceptable 23:42:49 ehird, also some sure are 23:43:00 "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" Shakespeare was totally hating on lawyers right? I'm fairly sure it was that Stop shattering my illusions 23:43:08 AnMaster: _some_ lawyers are among the most intelligent people? 23:43:10 there are laywers working for the FSF and such 23:43:16 ehird, ... 23:43:20 ehird, about evilness 23:43:23 oh. 23:43:24 some are non-evil 23:43:26 is what I meant 23:44:08 ehird, but just look at SCO. And all the cease and desist letters sent to open source 23:44:11 and so on 23:44:21 clearly evil lawyers are far from uncommon 23:44:27 the programs in our uni for everything law related are incredibly hard and tons of fun, according to what i've heard, and what i'm sure about. 23:44:31 Idiotic swedes are far from uncommon 23:44:36 Source: AnMaster is in this channel 23:44:45 and makes up a large percentage of the swedes (in this channel) 23:44:46 QED 23:44:51 Great argument, there. 23:45:09 Lojban update: .eli,yt.xyrd. is best 23:45:12 s/$/./ 23:45:16 ehird, what about open source game *similar* to starcraft in the idea. that got a ceast and desist letter 23:45:20 cease* 23:45:23 forgot the name 23:45:33 AnMaster: And extrapolating from three examples, we can conclude that most lawyers are evil. 23:45:33 so y is okay? 23:45:36 Totally. 23:45:37 anyway there are several others. Just use google 23:45:39 oklopol: apparently 23:45:47 Wow! SEVERAL OTHER evil lawyers! 23:45:47 ehird, I'm too lazy to dig up examples for you 23:45:55 There are also several evil secretaries. 23:46:03 Now let's all make jokes about secretaries being evil scum. 23:46:27 ehird, what about the lawyers of Boeing sending a DMCA notice to some author who had made a 3D model of some WW2 Boeing aircraft? 23:46:32 was maybe half a year ago 23:46:35 a year at most 23:46:55 Do you think at, like, 50 examples, the fundamental nature of your argument will change and be a valid way of showing that most lawyers are evil? 23:46:56 there's nothing evil about exploiting the legal system :o 23:47:15 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 23:47:18 ehird, most lawyers involved with computer industry 23:47:22 the law knows better 23:47:28 which is far from all of course 23:47:33 * oklopol dances law dance 23:47:35 AnMaster: No, that's simply false and idiotic. 23:47:42 AnMaster: Guess what happens when a lawyer is really evil? 23:47:46 It's reported on and made a fuss about. 23:47:50 ehird, also I never claimed most before you suggested it 23:47:53 AnMaster: Guess what happens when a lawyer is normal and decent? 23:47:57 NOBODY FINDS OUT. 23:48:01 I just said it wasn't an insignificant percentage 23:48:06 Because it's the most common thing. 23:48:07 ehird, that is true 23:48:16 ehird, but maybe they should work more on PR then 23:48:36 "Today in Sweden, a lawyer made reasoned legal arguments based on actual evidence." 23:48:39 "A press conference was held." 23:48:48 ehird, anyway why do you seem to take this personally? 23:48:51 i don't really believe in evil, but that may not be much of a surprise 23:48:53 bbl 23:49:08 I don't take it personally, but I take offence to your generalisation of a perfectly fine group of people. 23:49:16 If I take offence at a racist joke, am I black? 23:49:25 (Or, fuck, white. Asian. Anything.) 23:49:55 ehird, you joke about jews 23:50:01 you should take offence instead 23:50:07 clearly 23:50:13 No, I replace similar-sounding words like "uni" with "jewni". 23:50:26 I don't say "As we all know, Jews are evil." 23:50:46 If you replaced "voyeur" with "lawyeur", I wouldn't be taking offence. 23:50:55 Although I'd probably wonder wtf you're on about. 23:51:27 jewtube? 23:51:46 http://www.jewtube.com/ 23:51:48 It… actually exists. 23:51:56 HEh 23:51:58 Heh* 23:52:07 And it's actually related to jewish videos 23:52:08 damn your fast internet connection 23:52:10 [[JewTube is a free video sharing website comprising Jewish-oriented user-generated content. JewTube was founded by Jeremy Kossen, a Los Angeles-based entrepreneur. 23:52:11 Visitors to the site can view videos on a wide array of Jewish-themed content, including everything from Jewish cooking to "alternative animated endings" to the Sacha Baron Cohen film, "Borat".[1] 23:52:13 Google is challenging a New York City based company, NetParty, for the use of the name "JewTube", on trademark grounds. NetParty is not related or affiliated with the JewTube website.[2] In a related story, JewTube, having registered the JewTube domain a year before NetParty filed with the USPTO, also plans on contesting NetParty's LLC's filing.[3]]] 23:52:18 Yes… Borat is… about Jewishness… 23:52:21 i just assumed it'd be spam 23:52:38 Not THAT fast 23:52:39 Similarly, the Colbert Report is about catholicism. 23:53:31 was borat the one where the dude was an iraXian superman 23:53:51 Iraxian. 23:54:02 well as if i could remember which 23:54:04 oklopol: Kazakhstanian, actually. 23:54:07 well right 23:54:09 Oh... faster than I thought... 11.34 Mbit/s 23:55:27 i don't know even which country kazakhstan is 23:55:42 i think it's one that's more wide than it's tall 23:55:46 but that's it 23:55:51 It's the ninth largest in the world, apparently. 23:55:54 :D 23:55:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_(orthographic_projection).svg 23:56:03 Not all that big. :P 23:56:19 best exporter of potassium 23:56:57 Their potassium is the BOMB, man. 23:57:01 Totally potent shit. 23:58:08 now if only that image loaded at least a tiny bit faster 23:58:21 ehird: Sacha Baron Cohen is, in fact, Jewish. 23:58:36 23:52 ehird: Similarly, the Colbert Report is about catholicism. 23:58:39 Colbert is also catholic. 23:58:44 Doesn't mean it belongs on Catholitube. 23:58:46 Ah.