00:00:43 It worked this time! 00:00:43 ^_^ 00:00:51 ehird, kay. Floppies do get bad over time 00:01:54 next step is installing! 00:01:57 or at least hopefully. 00:02:14 byee~ 00:02:17 -!- ehird has quit. 00:05:36 -!- ehird has joined. 00:05:43 fucking bullshit man, it just ejected it. though the metal cover over the tape went kind of freaky when it came out after writing, and it came out slightly unhinged this time, so I'm gonna try again with a new disk 00:05:46 *diskette, I guess I shoulds ay 00:05:48 *should say 00:07:56 d'isquette 00:08:41 it seems ubuntu uses "apparmor" which is similar to selinux... 00:08:43 hm 00:08:44 ehird, ^ 00:09:10 apparently 00:09:23 en apparma, apparman, apparmor, apparmorna 00:09:37 tbh it's easy to do a capability based security system if you have a system-wide "file open" function, for instance 00:09:39 that asks the user what file to open 00:09:44 just give the app access to that file 00:10:00 the only reason it isn't done is because we have this weird notion of apps having the freedom to use whatever file entry method they want 00:10:20 kind of like letting a house in a street use whatever water, electricity and sewer lines it wants, at the expense of all the other houses 00:10:42 ehird, I'm not sure the analogy works... 00:11:11 because you don't want it to be true :p 00:12:01 ehird, you mean it should ask every time it wants to open it's preference file? Or every time you are searching a directory tree recursively? 00:12:20 I can see some reasons why "ask user for every access which file he/she wants" does have some issues 00:12:23 no, it should be able to get at a preference directory free from the OS 00:12:34 searching a directory tree, obviously opening a directory gives it recursive rights 00:12:46 ehird, what about a web server then 00:12:56 do you want people sitting at it all the time? 00:13:00 give it rights to the directories it serves 00:13:10 you're thinking about my "idea" way too stupidly just to put it down 00:13:18 obviously there's a method for running software with access to N directories 00:13:22 i'm referring to a user-facing app 00:13:28 ehird, yes that makes kind of sense. 00:13:30 where you can handle 90% of the cases this way 00:13:30 in some ways 00:13:42 not sure how command line apps would fit into it 00:13:44 ofc the solution is s/files/objects/ and make it even more fine grained with arbitrary permission schemes, but 00:14:40 in addition having a "gimme a directory to put my stuff in" also lets you configure it 00:14:45 e.g. "put all stuff in ~/config" 00:14:49 or "put this on this drive and that on that drive" 00:14:53 that's what abstraction gets you 00:15:07 (as opposed to current hacks that involve LD_PRELOAD and overriding the opening of dotfiles) 00:19:05 ehird, um... how would it find the setting next time it starts? 00:19:14 also... I never heard of such hacks 00:19:19 uhh, by calling the give_this_app_a_config() function? 00:19:31 anyway, let's try booting again 00:19:31 ah 00:19:35 -!- ehird has quit. 00:19:36 so OS would maintain it 00:19:56 oerjan, en apparma, apparman, apparmor, apparmorna <-- huh? 00:20:26 Oerjan'sconjugating. 00:21:04 ah 00:21:12 and that is some strange grammar there pikhq :P 00:21:22 Yup. 00:21:25 declining, i thought 00:21:37 oerjan: Bah. 00:21:49 AnMaster: you mean that's not how to decline "apparma" in swedish? 00:22:07 oerjan, I never even heard of that word in Swedish 00:22:09 -!- ehird has joined. 00:22:17 ehird, hi 00:22:21 how did it go? 00:22:27 also, *whoosh* 00:22:31 ejected it then gave me the bad floppy symbol 00:23:07 ehird, ouch. Btw how does one list what files an installed package contain in ubuntu from command line? I suspect apt-cache but can't figure out what parameters 00:23:20 apt something something something 00:23:36 AnMaster: i suggest you look closer at the third item 00:23:39 ehird, great help.... NOT. 00:24:01 oerjan, oh right, hah 00:24:04 "… NOT" 00:24:05 oerjan, but not sure 00:24:05 welcome to the 90s 00:24:05 AnMaster: man page 00:24:08 humour is over there 00:25:38 AnMaster: the "boot floppy" volume is uhh 00:25:39 how shall i put this 00:25:43 interestingly devoid of files. 00:25:50 ehird, uh uh 00:26:03 strange 00:26:04 ehird, I seriously have no clue. Try to make a cd bootable like the install cd 00:26:05 as in 00:26:07 same way 00:26:15 naw 00:26:23 ehird, I think it will be faster 00:26:34 but nobody's done that before. 00:26:41 in the 00s, we disapprove of "... NOT." BUT. 00:26:45 ehird, anyway check the floppy under linux with badblocks 00:26:46 oh wait 00:26:49 forgot you can't :P 00:27:16 shake the indigo belt of temerity! 00:28:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 00:35:59 okay, starting from scratch 00:36:04 let's think of the best way to go about this… 00:36:23 Hi Dan. The problem is that the "Old World" Macs cannot boot a Linux CD. You'll have to get the BootX program from here: 00:36:23 http://penguinppc.org/historical/benh/BootX_1.2.2.sit 00:36:24 ooh?! 00:36:27 bootx can boot CDs? 00:36:31 LET'S HAVE THAT SHIT! 00:37:49 I'm reminded of when I tried getting Linux on an old-world Mac. 00:37:54 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:37:57 Unfortunately, its OS install was nuked. 00:38:18 pikhq: lawl 00:38:19 bye guyses 00:38:21 So, no BootX. And a notable lack of floppies. 00:38:24 -!- ehird has quit. 00:39:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:42:47 -!- ehird has joined. 00:42:59 no luck 00:47:41 ehird, old mac runs very unprotected right? Like, no memory protection 00:47:46 why not load linux inside mac 00:47:48 as in 00:47:52 somewhat like kexec 00:48:00 You could do that, but it'd require programming. 00:48:01 Wait. 00:48:03 Programming is fun 00:48:07 possibly load it as the first extension during boot 00:48:07 AnMaster: Possibly, man! 00:48:13 AnMaster: Oldworld Macs are on a PowerPC. 00:48:14 brb 00:48:19 They have memory protection. 00:48:21 to avoid hardware too much messed up 00:48:31 pikhq, MacOS doesn't run protected memory though iirc 00:48:32 And can boot directly to Linux. 00:48:33 before OS X 00:48:42 AnMaster: Yes, but that's not because of hardware. 00:48:50 pikhq, did I say it was? 00:48:57 pikhq, I meant old mac os 00:48:58 -!- M0ny has quit. 00:49:06 Okay. 00:55:19 AnMaster: actually, I think that's basically what bootx does 00:55:33 let me make an alias to my cd rom drive where it looks and try it 00:56:23 um 00:56:29 ehird, alias for the cdrom you mean 00:56:38 nope 00:56:39 iirc inserting a different cdrom won't work for the alias 00:56:42 an alias pointing to my cd rom drive 00:56:47 in the system folder where bootx looks for its kernel 00:56:58 ehird, well right. But insert the right cd first 00:57:00 prolly won't work :P 00:57:00 no duh 00:57:02 oh... an idea 00:57:12 bollocks, doesn't seem to have mounted it 00:57:13 AnMaster: oh? 00:57:22 copy kernel to system dir? 00:57:31 meh 00:57:45 AnMaster: that's what bootx is for 00:57:56 lemme read the debian install docs 00:57:58 might enlighten me 00:58:59 good luck 00:59:38 i love hacking like this 00:59:48 there's something wonderful about using modern methods to hack things on to something so old 00:59:51 (relatively) 01:00:10 "OldWorld PowerMacs will not boot a Debian CD, because OldWorld computers relied on a Mac OS ROM CD boot driver to be present on the CD, and a free-software version of this driver is not available. All OldWorld systems have floppy drives, so use the floppy drive to launch the installer, and then point the installer to the CD for the needed files." 01:00:11 bitch 01:00:12 that was my idea 01:00:21 [[If your system doesn't boot directly from CD-ROM, you can still use the CD-ROM to install the system. On NewWorlds, you can also use an OpenFirmware command to boot from the CD-ROM manually. Follow the instructions in Section 5.1.2.2, “Booting NewWorld Macs from OpenFirmware” for booting from the hard disk, except use the path to yaboot on the CD at the OF prompt, such as]] 01:00:23 stop taunting me fuckers 01:00:34 5.1.2.1. Booting OldWorld PowerMacs from MacOS 01:00:35 If you set up BootX in Section 4.4.1, “Hard Disk Installer Booting for OldWorld Macs”, you can use it to boot into the installation system. Double click the BootX application icon. Click on the Options button and select Use Specified RAM Disk. This will give you the chance to select the ramdisk.image.gz file. You may need to select the No Video Driver checkbox, depending on your hardware. Then click the Linux button to shut down MacOS and launch the inst 01:00:37 bah! 01:00:39 i might do it that way 01:00:42 but i really want to enter via openfirmware 01:00:47 You will have already placed the vmlinux, initrd.gz, yaboot, and yaboot.conf files at the root level of your HFS partition in Section 4.4.2, “Hard Disk Installer Booting for NewWorld Macs”. You will now have to boot into OpenFirmware (see Section 3.6.1, “Invoking OpenFirmware”). At the prompt, type 01:00:47 0 > boot hd:x,yaboot 01:00:48 Oh. 01:00:50 Well no shit, sherlock! 01:00:53 I'll have me some of that! 01:01:09 AnMaster: do you think that the debian installer will be able to wipe and install on to the disk it's on? 01:01:23 prolly not 01:01:38 oh, wait 01:01:39 5.1.2.2. Booting NewWorld Macs from OpenFirmware 01:01:42 it's only for new world 01:01:45 fuck ass bitch shitting. 01:01:48 Yeah. 01:01:56 well that sucks 01:02:03 new world gets all the chicks 01:02:13 And the Forth. 01:02:18 yeah 01:02:18 ehird, you might want to try yellowdog 01:02:24 fuckers never zapped their pram 01:02:27 AnMaster: new world. 01:02:27 Not to mention the firmware with a bzimage loader builtin. 01:02:35 ehird, I zapped pram on newworld 01:02:40 no you didn't kiddo 01:02:42 get off my lawn 01:02:48 pikhq, really? WHERE CAN I ACCESS IT 01:02:49 brb 01:03:08 AnMaster: OpenFirmware 01:03:11 one more idea before i try bootx 01:03:35 "ext3 & quik - avoid headaches by keeping a ext2 partition for quik " 01:03:39 sweet, I'm going to be using ext2 01:03:42 retro! 01:04:06 ok, i'm gonna boot the installer via bootx 01:04:07 and then fly 01:04:30 The boot-floppy-hfs floppy uses miBoot to launch Linux installation, but miBoot cannot easily be used for hard disk booting. BootX, launched from MacOS, supports booting from files placed on the hard disk. BootX can also be used to dual-boot MacOS and Linux after your Debian installation is complete. For the Performa 6360, it appears that quik cannot make the hard disk bootable. So BootX is required on that model. 01:04:32 oh 01:04:36 quik can do it maybe possibly 01:04:41 no wait dammit i can't use a ram disk 01:04:44 my ram isn't big enough 01:04:52 i think 01:06:21 AnMaster: pikhq: seems like the best method so far is "boot up minimal thingy somehow, then launch that into the CD/tell it to use the CD" 01:06:30 Yup. 01:06:46 well i can't use floppies as the thingy 01:06:46 BTW, your RAM is big enough for the initial RAM disk. 01:06:53 It fits on one of those two floppies. ;) 01:06:53 pikhq: oh? how much does it require? 01:07:02 also, i don't want to have bootx as the final thingy 01:07:05 2M. 01:07:09 i want it to boot directly from quik 01:07:21 btw 01:07:26 old world macs have openfirmware too 01:07:36 anyway 01:07:43 either i'll bootx and then use quik after it's installed 01:07:47 or quik from the start 01:07:47 Then why do they suck so much? 01:07:49 commence voting 01:07:52 pikhq: buggy 01:07:58 Lame. 01:08:20 meh 01:08:43 ehird: Check to see if your Mac has NuBus. 01:08:48 pikhq: it doesn't, pci here 01:08:52 If it has NuBus, it doesn't have OpenFirmware. 01:08:55 Okay, then Quik works. 01:08:56 pikhq, how do you access openfirmware 01:09:02 yeah 01:09:09 i'm just wondering whether it's worth the fuss 01:09:10 well 01:09:18 pikhq: do you think the debian installer can wipe the drive it's stored on 01:09:19 then install to that? 01:09:22 AnMaster: command-option-o-f 01:09:28 ehird, that mac has it? 01:09:33 since it has pci I mean 01:09:38 sure 01:09:47 [01:09] ehird: pikhq: do you think the debian installer can wipe the drive it's stored on 01:09:47 [01:09] ehird: then install to that? 01:09:49 ehird, so... it is newworld 01:09:51 AnMaster: no 01:09:52 it's not 01:09:56 no? 01:09:57 "Quik is an Open Firmware-based bootloader for Old World Macintosh" 01:10:02 "Because it's very dependent on Open Firmware, and because the Open Firmware on Old World Macintosh is very buggy and difficult to work with" 01:10:03 QED 01:10:03 uh 01:10:07 ah 01:10:09 right 01:10:17 Where has this conception that OF = new world come from? 01:10:27 ehird, no idea 01:10:42 from using nubus macs and then jumping to newworld ones 01:11:00 Anyway, pikhq, answerate my question. :P (Or I'll ask #debian!) 01:11:19 AnMaster: were nubus/newworld beige boxes quite loud? 01:11:22 the old world ppcs are 01:11:36 ehird, uh? 01:11:40 well i guess i can't judge with the expansion board and all 01:11:42 AnMaster: fan noise 01:11:42 AnMaster: were nubus/newworld beige boxes quite loud? <-- what? 01:11:49 nubus/newworld? 01:11:55 as in, either/both 01:11:55 I didn't think that existed 01:12:01 hn 01:12:02 hm* 01:12:10 not a machine with both 01:12:11 silly 01:12:17 ehird: Sure it can. The bootloader loads the Debian installer to RAM. 01:12:19 ehird, my newworld ibook first generation wasn't very loud, to begin with 01:12:28 the harddrive is *really* loud nowdays though 01:12:32 pikhq: does it download the packages to RAM? 01:12:37 AnMaster: well laptops are a special case 01:12:38 also it's not beige 01:12:42 after the imac everything became nice 01:12:42 ehird, true 01:13:07 ehird: No, it downloads the packages to HD after the partitioning and formatting steps. 01:13:13 ehird, the old performa 6500 (or around there) I had was not very loud apart from the built in crt whine 01:13:14 pikhq: Ah. 01:13:23 pikhq: Cool. Now, I wonder if lenny has one of these ramdisk images. 01:13:25 To the IE 5.1! 01:13:31 Most definitely. 01:13:44 wait 01:13:46 pikhq: not a ramdisk 01:13:51 i should just put the thingy 01:13:52 on the other HD 01:13:58 then boot in from open firmware or quik or something 01:14:03 What thingy? 01:14:03 AnMaster: I can't really hear the crt whine over the fans 01:14:09 pikhq: installation thing 01:14:16 i'm not doing bootx 01:14:18 so not a ram disk 01:14:34 ehird, wasn't any fan noise on that one 01:14:43 Uh, Debian's installer works by loading a RAM disk with the installer in it. 01:14:45 ehird, I loved the cd noise on it though 01:14:50 For *all* the installation methods. 01:14:54 ehird, as in... you heard the seeking but not the spinning 01:15:06 ehird, which was *awesome* when it was loading myst 01:15:07 pikhq: yes, but the bootx method has a separate ramdisk file that you download 01:15:07 I mean 01:15:12 AnMaster: heh I have a myst disc here 01:15:17 Oh. 01:15:21 what does cd seeking even sound like 01:15:22 if not spinning 01:15:27 -!- MizardX- has joined. 01:15:36 pikhq: small or tiny cd? 01:15:38 pick my poison! 01:15:42 i'm inclined to go with tiny 01:15:42 ehird, it was like 2x or 4x, so you just heard the head thingy going back/forth 01:15:45 AnMaster: heh 01:15:59 head thingy = thing for laser 01:16:00 ehird: Small has a GUI installer, tiny has a text-mode installer. 01:16:06 Pick your poison. 01:16:06 "hd-media" 01:16:08 promising, but 01:16:11 has a yaboot.conf 01:16:14 so probably Not For Me 01:16:30 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:16:48 pikhq: i can't just boot in from openfirmware because it's elf 01:16:49 correct? 01:16:54 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 01:17:56 i mean i assume openfirmware wants some wacky mac kernel format 01:18:13 ehird: Probably. 01:18:22 so 01:18:30 i need quik 01:18:39 so what i need on my other HFS disk is: 01:18:41 quik 01:18:43 kernel 01:18:44 other stuff it needs 01:18:47 (installation stuff) 01:18:50 then boot in via HFS 01:18:51 err 01:18:52 via OF 01:19:07 http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/quik/ ;; kind of… lacks any info on how to insatll it 01:19:47 * ehird claps, it's distributed as a fucking rpm 01:19:49 * ehird clicks quik for mac os 01:19:54 which is a sit 01:19:55 /sigh 01:20:41 okay, a terminal-based installer 01:20:44 let's hope this doesn't brick my mac 01:20:52 "No unix partitions found!" 01:20:53 no 01:20:55 fucking 01:20:55 shit 01:20:56 sherlock 01:21:01 ok, bootx now 01:21:04 quik after 01:23:45 okay, so I need to make a folder called Linux Kernels inside my system folder 01:23:54 but i'll do the ramdisk 01:24:24 ok, ramdisk.img.gz has to go in the system folder 01:24:49 question is 01:24:52 where the hell do i get it 01:25:28 Debian mirror 01:25:47 pikhq: gee, thanks captain obvious :P 01:28:01 pikhq: the relevant install manual chapter references woody. 01:28:09 methinks this is kind of … unsupported. 01:28:55 well 01:28:59 boot.img.gz looks positive 01:29:34 it's 5.7MB 01:29:36 worth a shot 01:29:45 pikhq: d'you think it'll work? 01:29:50 Sure. 01:30:12 i wonder if i need this 0.5k boot.msg file 01:30:13 meh, can't hurt 01:30:29 That's for isolinux and friends. 01:31:08 nah, it was used in the yaboot.conf 01:31:38 "And friends". 01:31:46 :P 01:31:55 bootx would count as a friend then 01:31:58 the networking on this thing is so slow 01:32:02 it gets like 30KB/sec 01:32:02 why? 01:32:05 i get 700KB/sec here 01:34:18 ehird, I had to uninstall Helvetica Neue... it causes ubuntu's website to look shit when installed 01:34:26 due to not rendering well with fontconfig there 01:34:30 err 01:34:33 freetype I mean 01:34:42 yeah 01:37:32 -!- augur has joined. 01:37:57 Downloaded! 01:38:05 Now to rename boot.img.gz to ramdisk.img.gz, start BootX, and watch it break. 01:39:09 *ramdisk.image.gz 01:40:04 -!- ehird has quit. 01:48:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:49:15 -!- ehird has joined. 01:49:53 half-progress 01:49:58 bootx boots into "Welcome to Linux" 01:49:59 then 01:50:01 preparing boot params 01:50:04 preparing bat 01:50:04 mmu 01:50:05 blah 01:50:06 hash 01:50:06 blah 01:50:08 MMU:setio 01:50:09 MMU:exit 01:50:12 then it just sits there 01:50:16 until i reboot 01:50:23 i think it's found the kernel but not where to go next, y'know? 01:55:13 night 01:57:35 ah, i know! 01:57:44 i can't use the hd thing 01:57:48 cause it has no hd 01:57:52 i need a self-contained kernel thing 01:57:56 pikhq: so a floppy image right? 01:58:00 or rathre 01:58:01 rather 01:58:05 the stuff from a floppy image 01:58:06 → tiny cd 01:58:24 yeppers 01:58:48 hmm 01:58:52 what do i do without initrd, I wonder 01:59:00 wait 01:59:02 initrd is the ram disk 01:59:04 * ehird slap 02:05:32 time to try bootx! 02:06:09 -!- ehird has quit. 02:08:03 -!- ehird has joined. 02:08:10 i gotsit almost methinks 02:08:17 the kernel boots but doesn't go into init 02:08:18 ehird: Why are you disconnecting every time you try to boot your old Mac? 02:08:22 so that means it can't find it, right 02:08:26 pikhq: it's the feeling of it 02:08:29 :P 02:08:35 i put the imac to sleep 02:08:37 anyhow 02:08:40 i think the kernel boots up just fine 02:08:44 it just doesn't see the ramdisk, right? 02:08:55 is there a kernel parameter meaning "oi, look here you ejit"? 02:09:12 Or it might not see init in the ramdisk. 02:09:21 Maybe do init=/initrd 02:09:27 OK 02:10:24 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit). 02:11:14 -!- ehird has joined. 02:11:21 pikhq: "Kernel command line: ramdisk_size=8192 init=/initrd" but it still stops after "PID hash table entries: 512 (order: 9, 2048 bytes) 02:11:24 s/$/"/ 02:11:45 root=/dev/ram0 ? 02:12:09 pikhq: Not just /dev/ram? 02:12:12 But OK. 02:12:22 More than one ramdisk. 02:13:24 time to try 02:13:27 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit). 02:16:10 -!- ehird has joined. 02:16:19 pikhq: Same. 02:16:29 I seriously think it can't locate the ramdisk. 02:16:48 I'll take a photo of the screen? 02:17:52 Weirdness. 02:18:22 It just rebooted out of sheer boredom. 02:18:36 Snapped the screen, though. 02:19:10 pikhq: http://imgur.com/YEvwo.jpg; very WarGames looking. 02:20:30 #debian, and I got not a clue. 02:20:49 I didn't know it was possible for the kernel to lock up there. 02:21:13 pikhq: Mm. Interestingly, there's a RAM Disk in Mac OS; it's empty and has 60.8 MB free. 02:21:22 Mmm. 02:24:15 pikhq: However, my RAM disk is... not that big. 02:24:16 Hey, wait. 02:24:23 I think the RAM disk is set to 8KB— wait, no, it'll be 8MB. 02:24:48 The size is 8192. 02:24:50 8192… somethings. 02:25:10 It's measured in KB 02:25:12 Darn. 02:25:40 Whoo, 1600 mungers since qwantz.com linked to me. 02:25:43 That's ... a lotish? 02:25:51 That's not much for freakin' Dinosaur Comics. 02:25:57 Yarly :P 02:26:05 But it's a lot for codu :P 02:27:13 -!- Asztal has joined. 02:27:46 pikhq: /dev/ram is symlinked to /dev/ram1 on Red Hat, apparently. 02:27:49 Maybe I should try ram1. 02:28:43 pikhq: adb suggested ramdisk_size=16384; did zilch 02:29:50 /dev/ram1 helps not 02:37:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:41:21 -!- Azstal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:41:57 pikhq: i may have figuredified it out 02:42:02 with →→→magic 02:42:14 Woots. 02:42:31 put the ramdisk thingy in the linux kernels folder 02:42:35 so they're <33 bffs 02:42:43 Ah. 02:43:07 instead of the ramdisk in the system folder 02:43:12 and the kernel in its subdirectory, the linux kernels folder 02:44:08 gogogo 02:44:13 -!- ehird has quit. 02:46:35 -!- ehird has joined. 02:46:42 Alas, poor Linux. You stubborn bastard. Do something different, at least! 02:47:28 pikhq: perhaps it is trying to load /initrd? 02:47:35 where / has no well-defined meaning here 02:47:55 It shouldn't be. 02:48:19 Well, it should be, after mounting /. 02:49:12 Is there a way to make the kernel spew out its messages slower so I get a chance to read them? 02:49:39 No. 02:49:57 Well, there is, but it's absurd. 02:50:00 Oh? 02:50:12 Hook up another computer to the serial port and start up gdb. 02:50:41 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight 02:51:01 * ehird reboots. again. 02:51:08 looks like i'm not sleeping tonight 02:53:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:54:32 -!- Azstal has joined. 03:01:59 pikhq: With all this fuss, I conclude the only sane computer must be purely functional. 03:02:07 I don't know why this helps, but it'd soothe my soul. 03:06:00 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:07:39 pikhq: OK, I conclude that the problem comes down to: The kernel works absolutely fine. It just doesn't mount the ramdisk. 03:07:57 :/ 03:08:24 pikhq: Theory: This is because it's an OS X ramdisk, and Linux don't done know none of 'dat stuff. 03:08:57 Inquiry: why did you think that would work? 03:09:28 I strongly suspect the *floppy disk* image would work. 03:09:38 pikhq: (a) because that's what BootX does. 03:09:51 (b) they're an .img, not a kernel or ramdisk 03:09:58 physical diskettes don't boot 03:10:14 The second floppy disk image is the ramdisk. 03:10:39 pikhq: I'm using the tiny cd one. 03:10:45 Still doesn't change how BootX mounts it. 03:10:58 #debian. *shrug* 03:11:07 Asked; was mostly ignored. 03:11:22 Oh, right. Debian. 03:12:30 :P 03:18:44 -!- Azstal has quit (Connection timed out). 03:19:41 `translatefrom hu azstal 03:19:41 No output. 03:20:01 `translatefrom hu asztal 03:20:02 No output. 03:21:39 `translatefrom no Skjønner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig? 03:21:39 No output. 03:21:57 `ls bin/trans* 03:21:57 `translatefromto no en Skjonner 03:21:57 No output. 03:21:59 Understand 03:22:08 `translatefromto hu en asztal 03:22:09 table 03:22:11 `sh ls bin/trans* 03:22:12 No output. 03:22:18 `sh ls bin 03:22:19 No output. 03:22:23 er 03:22:25 `run ls bin/trans* 03:22:25 bin/translate \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/translateto 03:22:27 yeah :P 03:22:44 ah. 03:23:29 `translatefromto no en Skjønner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig? 03:23:31 SkjĂ ¸ nner this thing anything, really? 03:23:55 well, not unicode, that's for sure 03:26:23 `translatefromto no en Skjonner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig? 03:26:24 Do this thing anything, really? 03:26:36 * oerjan would have wanted a "what so ever" inside there... 03:27:34 `translatefromto en no Does this thing understand anything what so ever, really? 03:27:36 Betyr dette forstĺr alt hva sĺ noensinne, egentlig? 03:27:49 O_O 03:28:18 that was horrible :D 03:28:46 THE LS ARE DOTTED. 03:29:04 hm 03:29:12 `translatefromto en no Does this thing understand anything whatsoever, really? 03:29:14 Betyr dette forstĺr noe overhodet, egentlig? 03:29:22 Why can'ṫ we jusṫ doṫ our ṫs and cross our ɨs? 03:29:24 pikhq: ´tted actually. 03:29:29 ok slightly better 03:30:23 * oerjan checks the logs for dotted l's 03:30:32 O_O those are supposed to be å's 03:31:08 l̇ 03:31:49 ṪHERE. L̇, BƗṪCHES. ;) 03:32:02 pikhq: lawl 03:32:22 BTW, ZOMG. I can... Double-cross my ŧs. 03:32:43 treacherous spelling 03:32:59 And double-doŧ my ïs. 03:39:36 * ehird decides to try out Debian sarge. 03:39:43 I doubt more recent things will work smoothly for the install process. 03:42:02 i think debian sarge would be a major error, and could in general cause corporal harm 03:42:17 it's a toy-story based naming system actually. 03:42:44 aha 03:42:56 The unstable release is "sid". :-) 03:44:02 Didn't Ian work at Pixar? 03:45:08 Dunno. 03:45:17 Hmph; the only minimal CD for sarge is 2.4-kernel. 03:45:26 But the "non-minimal" CD is just a few meg. :P 03:48:33 Aha — I think I should be using boot.img.gz, not initrd.gz. 03:48:34 Maybe. 03:55:46 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:58:49 AnMaster: that MPW disk would be appreciated. 04:16:46 -!- HackEgo has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:46 -!- ski__ has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:18:13 -!- ski__ has joined. 04:50:32 * ehird sets the unused 1.19GB drive as virtual RAM 04:50:36 wow, it's screamingly fast! 04:51:05 as in… actually usable now 06:09:12 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 06:09:24 126 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [214] 06:17:48 CRTs that don't come with a "reset settings" option suck. 06:17:51 Trufax. 06:51:26 Haha wow. 06:51:30 There's a port of Firefox to Mac OS 9. 06:51:35 Recent. Like, this year. 06:51:37 I'm downloading it now. 07:03:50 Correction: It seems to be the suite. 07:03:51 Whatever. 07:04:57 Rendering is… insanely fast. 07:05:31 Like "once Wikipedia's loaded, it renders instantly" fast. 07:22:21 http://codu.org/myavatar.gif wtf 07:22:32 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 07:25:53 -!- ehirdzilla has joined. 07:25:56 Gay 07:26:18 hello from chatzilla/macos9/ppc! 07:26:31 it's kinda slow 07:26:45 what with the whole memory-hogging infrastructure and slow javascript running on top of a 300mhz processor 07:27:07 GregorR: You're Gregor, apparently. 07:27:16 ehird: stfu im me not you 07:27:25 ehirdzilla: So I'm told. 07:27:43 one button mice really kinda suck. 07:28:01 this is slower than windows 7 is in my os x vm :D 07:30:29 so hey guys it's 7:29 am i'm on an ancient mac starved for cpu, ram and disk running a gigantic sprawling mess of C++ code with a slow javascript implementation interfacing on to that running complex code which then changes an xml document tree which is then processed to meticulously redraw and/or use native widgets in a window. 07:30:38 connected to IRC. 07:30:43 is it the future yet? 07:39:12 The future came and passed. 07:39:14 It's yesterday now. 07:39:45 whoa 07:39:51 fucking tachyon computers 07:40:01 by saturday i'll be buying this for $2,700 07:40:14 and uninstalling the debian i installed on it in the future to put mac os on it instead 07:42:45 poincare conjecture is like what timecube is to internet explorer 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:04:34 MigoMipo, you're a MigoMipo. 08:04:55 ===CTCP version reply Chatzilla 0.8.23 [Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:9.0) Clecko/20090628 Classilla/CFM] from ehirdzilla 08:04:57 :( 08:05:02 I was hoping it'd mention OS 9 08:05:12 That way, everyone would cry "Fake!" :) 08:19:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:19:38 hi FireFly 08:20:00 put your DS irc bot up and i'll trigger it with my PPC PowerMac :-P 08:20:18 Hello, ehird on .*zilla 08:20:20 Well, it is non-existant for now 08:20:27 It was just an idea I had 08:20:51 i'm on classilla 08:21:00 mozilla suite (seamonkey i guess) for mac os 9 08:21:20 usable, but switching windows is slow 08:21:27 Ah 08:21:40 sis entering a url, but 08:21:42 *so is 08:22:00 rendering is fast and way more accurate than ie 5.1 08:22:02 sooo 08:22:04 yay 08:22:35 Ah, right, there's no Safari for you in OS 9 08:22:48 I was a bit wtf'd at first when I saw you running IE on that photo 08:23:03 oh and scrolling's jerky. but we are talking a 120mhz machine that was upgraded to a 300mhz g3 w/ 96mb of ram 08:23:07 FireFly, heh, yeah 08:23:31 I played around with Damn Small Linux on a 48MB RAM laptop a couple of years ago 08:23:54 It was actually usable.. definitely more than the Win95 it originally ran, at least 08:24:00 i've made the empty 1.19gb (same size as system disk) drive into "Auxiliary Memory" 08:24:14 and set 990mb of it (the most it'd allow) as virtual memory 08:24:23 Heh 08:24:44 then set the ram disk to 8064kb and moved the browser's cache to it 08:24:48 7mb big 08:25:05 then left the disk cache as the inferred 2816kb 08:25:09 and it's running like 2-4x faster 08:25:27 difference between many seconds between it reacting to a window switch and doing it in less than a second 08:25:44 rendering changed from unusably slow to just tedious 08:25:46 quite good imo 08:26:04 os 9.1 is prolly a bit too much for this machine to do lotsa stuff smoothly but *meh* 08:26:06 Yeah, being able to use an application is always a plus 08:26:14 quite. 08:27:01 oh, and classilla uses 80.1mb of ram constantly because classic mac os doesn't/didn't have dynamic memory allocation 08:27:10 of course, this means that swapping etc. behaviour is pretty suck 08:27:23 but hey, over 1gb of ram! 08:27:29 the actual ram drops out as statistically insignificant 08:27:37 i'm sure it's fast enough, it's a QUANTUM FIREBALL drive after all 08:28:32 but this is really quite usable, apart from the ~1.5s delay from clicking the chatzilla window to it putting text in the grey area 08:28:49 coperative multitasking, how nave! 08:29:04 "coöperative" just looks... odd 08:29:20 When you're used to reading 'ö' as a character, with its own pronounciation 08:29:35 it's english's only accent, and I'm fucking proud to flaunt it! 08:29:40 in fact i'm going to start a movement 08:29:48 Hooray For the Fucking Diaresis 08:30:06 HFFD 08:30:07 *Dieresis 08:30:11 yes 08:30:28 Well, I did know about naïve 08:31:30 Doesn't the diaeresis signify non-diphthong sound, or something like that? 08:32:12 actual like 2 seconds, not 1.5 08:32:13 "Dutch uses the same mark in a similar way, (for example coëfficiënt), but as with English there is now a preference for hyphenation - so zeeëend (seaduck) is now spelled zee-eend" 08:32:15 Hm 08:32:17 *actually the delay is 08:32:32 FireFly, it's used to denote that two consecutive vowels do not have the same pronunciation 08:32:43 well 08:32:45 and other vowels too 08:32:46 e.g. 08:32:49 premptive 08:32:53 pree, ehmptive 08:32:58 zo 08:33:04 zoh, ee 08:33:09 nave 08:33:10 Mhm 08:33:18 AnMaster: that MPW disk would be appreciated. <-- right. I'm just going out, but as soon as I get back I will look at it 08:33:21 wait nave doesn't really count but 08:33:24 AnMaster, kaykay 08:33:33 -!- FireFly has left (?). 08:33:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:33:40 ._. 08:33:47 ehirdzilla, this will be in maybe 1-2 hours 08:33:58 Accidentally hitted the closing x with the mouse 08:34:20 AnMaster, i may be asleep by then 08:34:25 what having not slepped and all 08:34:27 yes slepped 08:34:29 slept is for lameos 08:34:30 ehirdzilla, well I can try now 08:34:37 i was joking 08:34:37 I do have some time before I leave 08:34:40 but sure thing bro? 08:34:57 ehirdzilla, depends on how long it takes 08:35:23 ehirdzilla, sure it isn't available for download from apple? 08:35:29 doesn't making an .img consist of dragging the floppy to disk copy and picking a file name? :P 08:35:31 AnMaster, it is 08:35:36 in about 50 separate files 08:35:41 ehirdzilla, [0014]? 08:35:44 all with different components and shit 08:35:52 AnMaster, ehwhat 08:35:54 AnMaster, it is[0014] 08:35:55 that 08:35:58 is what I mean 08:36:04 em dash. 08:36:07 probably MacRoman or something. 08:36:10 blame mac os 9. 08:36:18 ehirdzilla, kay. I *can't* interpret that 08:36:25 (chatzilla on mozilla on mac os 9, wayoohh) 08:36:44 AnMaster: yeah shows up as just "it is" here 08:36:53 ï in naïve worked though 08:37:03 * AnMaster looks for some free space 08:37:07 as in 08:37:11 phyical for the laptop 08:37:41 I just got memoserv spam... 08:38:02 delay was more like 3-5s this time 08:38:17 ? 08:38:19 memoserv spam sounds fun 08:38:26 AnMaster, switching navigator/chatzilla window 08:38:41 the undrawn part of the cz window stays grey for a few seconds 08:38:46 before it gets its act together 08:38:55 same the other way around 08:39:05 although cz->web is faster than web->cz 08:39:26 ehirdzilla, heh 08:39:37 ehirdzilla, how many MHz did you say? 08:39:42 also: how much ram 08:39:51 and: did you manage with linux? 08:40:36 the g3 chip in here is 300mhz; the original powerpc something-or-other was 120mhz. 96mb of physical ram... and i put the empty 1.19gb drive as virtual memory (well, 990mb is all they allowed, but) 08:40:41 also, I'm planning to start again from scratch today 08:41:12 i have an 8064kb ram disk for the classilla (seamonkey thingy ported to mac os 9; recent) cache 08:41:32 and the os has deemed that 2816kb is a jolly good size for the disk cache 08:41:58 oops 08:42:10 did i just send an empty message? 08:42:11 seems not 08:42:46 * AnMaster notes clock battery is dead 08:43:26 ehirdzilla, my MPW dir is 119 MB 08:43:45 on my system drive i have... 08:43:47 may be some un-needed stuff in there 08:43:49 like 08:43:52 built examples 08:43:58 954.1mb free 08:44:03 AnMaster, you don't have the floppy? 08:44:16 i expect mpw puts like system extensions, no? 08:44:20 so one dir wouldn't be all 08:44:21 ehirdzilla, as I said: I only have it installed already. Also this mac doesn't have a floppy 08:44:31 oh right a weirdo mac :P 08:44:42 * AnMaster blinks 08:44:44 AnMaster, is the networking really slow on yours too? 08:44:47 it is on mine 08:44:49 ehirdzilla, You aren't ehird 08:44:56 ":P" 08:45:04 ehirdzilla, well, not really. Just a bit slow. 08:45:13 it is 100 mbps ethernet after all 08:45:16 not 1 gbps 08:45:20 but i get like 10/20/30KB/s instead of 500/600/700KB/s 08:45:24 over the interwebs 08:45:33 ehirdzilla, yours *is* a bit older 08:45:37 feels like dialup when loading pages 08:45:42 AnMaster, yeah but... 08:45:46 it's not even a megabit 08:45:52 they don't make kilobit ethernet :P 08:45:55 ehirdzilla, anyway, if you want resedit or macbugs or similar I can package them up 08:45:59 they are only one file each 08:46:09 mpw I'm not sure about 08:46:10 not particularly, i'm mainly interested in the progenitoring 08:46:21 ehirdzilla, then you *want* macbugs 08:46:25 it helps when you are programming 08:46:31 since you keep crashing the OS 08:46:32 sounds like a debugger 08:46:36 i don't believe in debuggers 08:46:41 ehirdzilla, yes. but system level one 08:46:42 as in 08:46:46 AnMaster, and it stops the OS crashing? 08:46:56 ehirdzilla, well, sometimes you can recover from it 08:46:58 i doubt that's easy to recover from vs waiting the minute or so it takes to cold reboot 08:47:02 rather than hard reset 08:47:04 i mean in terms of effort/time 08:47:19 ehirdzilla, no journaled fs btw :P 08:47:24 of course 08:47:28 i don't even have HFS+ on this. 08:47:36 waot 08:47:37 wait 08:47:39 i do 08:48:11 ehirdzilla, yep. OS 9 does. Oh and I have a defragmenter for it. Called "Norton SpeedDisk" 08:48:16 for HFS+ that is 08:48:36 ah the other disk is hfs 08:48:38 I know how you can run that standalone 08:48:40 system drive is hfs+ 08:48:45 auxiliary memory drive is hfs 08:48:50 it can defragment hfs too 08:48:51 iirc 08:49:01 AnMaster, the virtual memory isn't actual files 08:49:08 just extending the ram into the drive 08:49:59 anyway if your program crashes the whole OS when it goes wrong the obvious thing to do is to write a lisp interpreter then program in that. 08:50:10 w/ appropriate error traps, ofc 08:50:18 it can't get any slower! 08:50:31 ehirdzilla, it is a file 08:50:33 a hidden one 08:50:50 there are lots of hidden ones 08:50:52 right well you can't defrag a drive of one file much. 08:51:10 i doubt it's putting blocks all over the place when it has the whole drive, more or less, to itself 08:51:38 true 08:51:43 system disk though? 08:52:10 hm you could boot from install cd. Wasn't it 8.6 or later? 08:52:25 then copy the defrag app the to the second disk 08:52:26 i don't have the installation media 08:52:28 and run it from there 08:52:30 and eh 08:52:36 my system disk doesn't appear to seek much 08:52:39 at least i can't hear it often 08:52:46 ram disk + cache does wonders 08:54:44 ehirdzilla, so do you want my mpw installed or will you download it? 08:54:45 i'd like to soup up a 68k mac sometime :-) 08:54:47 from apple 08:54:57 well installed would kinda be nicer since it's in pieces on the apple site 08:55:05 i don't want to install 30 things individually 08:55:07 ehirdzilla, pieces in what way? 08:55:14 different files for each subcomponent 08:56:34 * AnMaster is copying it 08:57:44 I will copy it over with the personal web sharing crappy web server I guess 08:59:02 you have a .mac account? 08:59:08 they're killing that shit off in favour of mobileme 08:59:18 oh you mean 08:59:20 locally 08:59:21 thing 08:59:23 right 08:59:45 yes local thingy 08:59:53 see the strip at the bottom 08:59:56 near the end 09:00:47 i removed that 09:01:01 replaced it with a popup folder thing with application aliases in 09:01:02 as buttons 09:01:07 it's like the dock except not! 09:06:55 http://zip.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1248794244319.png 09:06:56 :D 09:07:45 ehirdzilla, creating disk image... 09:07:45 Mittens! :D 09:07:49 sure slow 09:07:57 cretining diskkkkk imagina 09:09:49 ehirdzilla, looks like it will take quite a while 09:10:50 wow, apparently http://system7today.com/ actually runs on 7.6 09:10:57 with appleshare 09:11:11 say what you want 'bout those guys, they sure are consistent 09:11:48 linux supports appleshare iirc 09:11:55 not sure how well 09:12:23 in this case appleshare is being used to refer to server software 09:13:06 ah.. not the protocol 09:16:02 now it's compressing 09:16:05 takes time 09:16:20 remember to .hqx! 09:16:25 well... I'm sorry but I have to leave now. hopefully it will be done when I get back so I can upload it then 09:16:39 bbl 09:29:10 ehird: btw the nyt ie theme is perfect 09:29:21 reading wikipedia is now actually a pleasant experience 09:29:24 the new york times ie theme? xD 09:29:27 :P 09:29:37 erghERA 09:29:42 Erghera. 09:29:44 eh 09:29:46 wtf 09:29:51 that wasn't a typo 09:29:54 lol 09:29:58 i mean ew->yt 09:30:40 i guess it must be swedish 09:31:52 -!- ehirdzilla has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:41:05 -!- calamari- has joined. 09:57:37 didn't you listen to liszt, X? 10:34:13 ehird, back 10:34:15 now to copy it 10:38:12 ehird, I'm not sure how to *.hqx without *.sit too 10:41:13 please switch to a better client 10:41:52 you know something modern like MIRC 10:42:24 oklopol, who are you telling 10:42:29 you. 10:42:33 ...? 10:42:45 or did you see my question and just didn't understand it? 10:42:59 well, it's only directed at you if the answer is yes 10:43:00 I didn't see you highlight me anywhere 10:43:02 but i'm assuming it is 10:43:06 i didn't 10:43:11 "didn't you listen to liszt, X?" 10:43:22 i'm assuming you're X. 10:43:22 -!- calamari- has quit ("Leaving"). 10:43:31 well... sometimes 10:43:36 cool. 10:43:39 so you saw that? 10:43:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:44:23 saw what 10:44:29 saw me ask that 10:44:39 yes 10:44:43 whatever. make sense 10:44:51 so, you've now seen me ask it twice? 10:45:11 ehird, I have the file copied to my PC. Tell me when you are back so I can transfer it somehow 10:45:17 i am back. 10:45:17 I will be out during the evening btw 10:45:20 ehird, ah hi 10:45:24 filebin.ca 10:45:25 well.. lets try dcc 10:45:28 ok that then 10:45:30 AnMaster: did you see it in the backlog? 10:45:40 i said it just before you joined 10:45:45 so if you didn't see it, get a better client 10:45:56 oklopol, yes I saw it in scrollback... 10:46:11 and you didn't realize it was directed at you? 10:46:17 weird, you've mentioned liszt to me 10:46:17 "Upload any file. Must be less than 50 megabytes. Files will be kept in a rotating pool of space, and may be removed at any time."' 10:46:20 ehird, ^ 10:46:21 anyway, i like liszt 10:46:22 no filebin 10:46:24 file is 53 MB 10:46:34 AnMaster: rapidshare.de 10:46:42 ehird, dcc then rather than that crap 10:46:45 i should really communicate more clearly to AnMaster 10:46:49 too slow; didn't bother. 10:46:50 *with 10:47:15 i just don't like having trivial conversations trivially 10:47:26 ehird, uploading to there would be just as slow wouldn't it? 10:47:29 why use a retarded language like english if you want to be efficient 10:47:42 AnMaster: not ime, but fine, give it a go 10:47:43 ehird, same upload speed for me 10:47:50 sec *sets up right ip* 10:47:58 right here we go 10:48:16 * Offering ToEhird.img.hqx to ehird 10:48:18 * AnMaster waits 10:48:27 accepted 10:48:37 ehird, doesn't seem to work? 10:48:54 too probablyrouter; didn't getenoughsleeptotryandfix 10:49:11 ehird, it is *I* who have to open a port to serve the file 10:49:19 so hm 10:50:09 ehird, actually. I blame my router 10:50:17 I get connection timed out on it's web interface... 10:51:00 lets see 10:51:33 ehird, I'm going to upload it somewhere hm... 10:52:17 ok I found somewhere to put it ehird 10:52:23 please stand by while it is uploading 10:52:29 ToEhird.img.hqx 3% 2240KB 88.6KB/s 10:20 ETA 10:52:31 says scp 10:52:39 also 10:52:45 that is really .img.sit.hqx 10:57:32 ehird, please stand by while it is uploading 10:57:36 ETA 5 minutes 10:57:51 blah where's oerjan, i have a question about p-adic... i mean... i have cookies for him 11:00:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:02:44 ehird, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/ToEhird.img.hqx 11:02:55 ehird, tell me when you downloaded it so I can delete it 11:03:10 ToEhird.img.hqx that downloads to ToEhird.img.si 11:03:10 t 11:03:17 wtf 11:03:19 * ehird cancels 11:03:22 ehird, browser is autounhexing it? 11:03:25 odd 11:03:28 uhh... 11:03:39 and yes it is a sit, couldn't hqx it without *.siting it 11:03:41 as I said above 11:03:56 didn't have any app for it at least 11:04:03 brb food 11:13:42 back 11:14:21 ehird, that is the only format I can offer. I'm going afk for a bit, when I reconnect I will not have scrollback because I'm not going to quit this copy of the client (and thus the bouncer won't replay) 11:17:04 -!- ehird has quit. 11:18:27 -!- ehird has joined. 11:22:00 -!- M0ny has joined. 11:28:41 pikhq: will woody → sarge actually work? 11:28:46 seems it's the last that installs cleanly 11:32:50 -!- Asztal has joined. 11:52:11 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:05:39 -!- nooga has joined. 12:12:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:15:23 cookies, where? gimme! 12:15:40 oklopol: ^ 12:19:48 alright, these aren't entirely cookies, they are more like, questions about p-adic cookies, although instead of cookies, more like numbers. basically, are those isomorphic to reals? i thought reals, or something having them as a subset, was the only way to complete Q 12:20:33 i haven't seen the formal proof, because this was just a side note where i read it, so i may have misunderstood 12:21:19 nope. the _algebraic_ reals are the only way to complete Q. i think. 12:21:31 all the other reals are just extra stuffing. 12:21:36 ehird, fetched the file yet? 12:21:43 no, it downloaded weird 12:21:47 as i said 12:21:49 algebraic reals being..? 12:21:56 ehird, use wget on mac os x? 12:22:00 it should work 12:22:02 AnMaster: eh 12:22:04 i'm really tired 12:22:12 you can just delete it 12:22:13 i can wp 12:22:14 those that are the roots of integer/rational polynomials 12:22:19 oh 12:22:25 but... 12:22:54 you don't need C for that? 12:22:58 that's as a field. as an _ordered_ field it's different. the p-adics are not ordered. 12:23:02 oh wait, right. 12:23:03 x^2 + 1 12:23:13 oh p-adics aren't ordered? 12:23:15 ahh 12:23:17 that's it 12:23:26 yes i was talking about the ordered reals 12:23:29 err 12:23:32 i mean ordered completion 12:24:56 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:25:13 oh my god i'd love to see the construction of calculus on p-adics 12:25:24 why don't you want to teach me :P 12:25:34 unfortunately i know nothing about that. 12:25:54 except that they have a different metric/distance function. 12:26:11 yes, i know that much 12:26:19 except the metric seems very weird to me. 12:26:36 it does fulfil the triangle equality. 12:26:41 somehow big numbers are small, and most stuff doesn't seem to get ordered 12:26:48 right, is there a name for such metrics? 12:26:52 oh wait, i should know that 12:26:59 and i assume the p-adics are actually a completion in the metric sense. 12:27:08 "metric" 12:27:18 oh, right, heh :P 12:27:31 what do you mean completion in the metric sense? 12:27:49 that every cauchy sequence converges 12:27:57 yes, it means exactly that 12:28:17 converges ... the metric 12:28:32 i can't fill that ... but something mathematical like "up to" should be in there 12:28:45 well maybe your in the metric sense 12:28:46 in 12:28:52 right okay 12:29:24 so the metric is considered like some kinda grid on top of the space instead of a function from pairs to distances in that saying... so to speak 12:29:39 okay don't answer that :P 12:37:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 12:37:19 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:49:17 * ehird has 5 floppies that, in theory, will install Debian woody, circa 2002, on an Old World PowerPC Mac. 12:49:29 In theory. 12:51:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 12:52:50 ehird, well... I won't delete it until you downloaded it 12:53:00 test time! 12:53:01 anyway just wget under OS X and send over network or such 12:53:02 -!- ehird has quit. 12:55:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:55:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:04:51 -!- ehird has joined. 13:05:03 The woody install boots! 13:05:12 I am currently using an awful fdisk thingy to badly mangle my disk. 13:06:08 fdisk isn't awful 13:07:11 it's utterly disgusting 13:07:39 nooga lost a drive in a tragic partitioning accident. 13:13:09 fdisk > cfdisk at least 13:13:10 :) 13:13:29 I never had issues with the linux fdisk 13:13:51 parted is rather less soul-killing. 13:14:08 144mb enough swap for 96mb of physical ram? 13:14:11 (* 1.5) 13:14:13 i think so 13:14:18 or should i go for * 2? 13:14:42 eh, i'll leave it 13:14:45 only 1.19gb in total after all 13:15:12 * ehird watches woody initialise an ext2 partition 13:15:16 Cutting-edge stuff 13:15:19 s/$/!/ 13:19:10 ehird, iirc parted has issues marking the right partition type on lvm partitions. But this may be a gparted issue. not sure 13:19:50 ehird, dist-upgrade to lenny? :D 13:20:33 wasn't woody the one that was stable for several years (because next release took a long time) 13:20:38 AnMaster: No, dist-upgrade to sarge (wow, 3 years just passed). Then dist-upgrade to etch. 13:20:40 Then dist-upgrade to lenny. 13:20:43 Then dist-upgrade to testing. 13:20:51 ehird, haha 13:20:52 (or just upgrade; I forget how you switch to testing) 13:21:19 ehird, what kernel is used on woody 13:21:24 2.4 13:21:35 *nostalgia* 13:21:38 Sarge promptly switched to 2.6, breaking everything. :-P 13:21:47 There were many major changes in the sarge release, mostly due to the large time it took to freeze and release the distribution. Not only did this release update over 73% of the software shipped in the previous version, but it also included much more software than previous releases, almost doubling in size with 9,000 new packages. A new installer replaced the aging boot-floppies installer with a modular design. This allowed advanced installations (with RAID, 13:23:46 ehird, "(with RAID" 13:23:49 it was cut off there 13:24:25 XFS and LVM support) including hardware detection, making installations easier for novice users. The installation system also boasted full internationalization support as the software was translated into almost forty languages. An installation manual and comprehensive release notes we 13:24:26 re released in ten and fifteen different languages respectively. This release included the efforts of the Debian-Edu/Skolelinux, Debian-Med and Debian-Accessibility sub-projects which boosted the number of educational packages and those with a medical affiliation as well as p 13:24:29 ackages designed especially for people with disabilities.[9] 13:24:40 kay 13:24:44 so wikipedia? 13:24:48 ;P 13:25:56 What should I hostname this slow but fun Power Macintosh Debian install? :P 13:26:06 (AnMaster: No, not "tux".) 13:26:24 ehird, hm... 13:26:35 ThinkDifferent 13:26:39 well 13:26:42 something like that 13:26:45 thinkslow? 13:26:50 slow.thinker? 13:26:54 br b 13:26:56 brb* 13:35:53 Aaaand it's downloading and installing the packages. 13:42:28 Q: How come homeopath's computers don't have the memories of all the rubbish that's ever been on them, like their remedies? 13:42:32 A: They zap the PRAM. 13:42:35 (↑↑ WORST JOKE EVER) 13:43:03 AnMaster: Welp, I just installed Quik, so now Mac OS 9 is inaccessible to me. 13:43:12 Unless I attach a serial cable to use OpenFirmware. 13:43:14 Hmm. :P 13:43:39 time to try out my new debian box! 13:43:42 -!- ehird has quit. 13:46:15 -!- ehird has joined. 13:46:24 My new Debian box is great! I only have two complaints: 13:46:26 1. Doesn't boot up any more 13:46:28 2. Could do with some more booting up 13:46:40 I think that solving 1 will help with 2 13:46:47 I suggest going for that one first 13:46:48 Yes, as do I. 13:47:00 "Because it's very dependent on Open Firmware, and because the Open Firmware on Old World Macintosh is very buggy and difficult to work with, much of the information on this page describes how to work around firmware problems." 13:47:01 Joy. 13:47:29 [[All you see is a black screen, your keyboard does nothing. Or you just get a white screen, some kind of open firmware boot prompt, and your confused. 13:47:29 The universal anwser is zap your PRAM (Parameter RAM). Yes, this resets all your boot settings, and messes up your color and networking settings in Mac OS.]] 13:47:31 Zap your PRAM! 13:48:41 Deewiant: Solving it won't exactly be easy, because it just does the chimes and then sits there without any feedback or input. :P 13:51:47 Post-futuristic-baby-carrier-assault, OS 9 is now strating. 13:51:49 *starting 13:51:56 This does not exactly help me get at my Debian system 13:51:59 s/$/./ 13:55:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:02:00 "The theoretical capacity of a Boeing 747 filled with Blu-Ray discs is 595,520,000 Gigabits, resulting in a 37,034.826 Gb/s flight from New York to Los Angeles." 14:02:26 Hi, ais523. I'm zapping PRAM and patching Open Firmware and planning to upgrade Debian 7 years in a short space of time. 14:04:45 ehird: impressive 14:04:54 Quite. 14:05:44 When the newest installation method that works is a floppy containing a Debian sarge netinstall, circa 2002, you know your platform's abandoned. 14:06:01 wait 14:06:02 not sarge 14:06:03 woody 14:06:08 -!- M0ny has quit. 14:09:10 ehird: wow 14:09:13 what platform is that? 14:10:08 hmm... summary of Slashdot news: Yahoo are now using Bing as their search engine after a deal with Microsoft, and a new type of cloud they've discovered turns out to be created by space shuttle launches 14:10:39 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:11:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("Reshoeing"). 14:18:27 ais523: the platform is a PowerPC Power Mac with an Old World ROM 14:18:33 (so it can't boot from CDs) 14:18:40 *Macintosh, technically. 14:19:55 i've been at this for… approaching 24 hours now i think 14:20:11 i don't even plan on using it 14:20:23 my attitude to the action is basically doing it :P 14:20:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:22:41 ais523: the main thing i've learned is that classic mac os hates you and does not want you to: install linux; be happy. 14:23:15 how can one OS have any opinion on whether you can install another single-boot? 14:23:28 you mean that classic macs hate you, not Mac OS Classic 14:24:48 no, I mean mac os classic 14:24:55 when you're getting what you need to install 14:25:10 for example, you mustn't let it mount the floppy disk image or floppy while they're writeable 14:25:17 because it will indiscriminately dump the bootb its 14:25:19 *boot bits 14:25:29 (without notification) 14:28:48 why would you even run the OS at all? 14:29:32 ais523: you pretty much have to with a classic mac 14:29:42 yes, you technically could totally avoid doing it, but it'd be incredibly difficult 14:29:44 so it can't just boot from a floppy, then? 14:29:51 I actually have no idea 14:29:52 yes. it can. 14:30:13 so presumably, then, the issue is that you need a lot of information from the OS itself to make the disk image 14:30:41 nooot really 14:30:44 it's complicated 14:31:19 ais523: but to give you an idea of the sort of environment, it actually can boot from CDs. as long as said CD is a mac os 8.6 (iirc as to the exact version number; probably newer versions too) install disc. 14:31:22 I like complication, or I wouldn't be here 14:31:50 the issue is that it attempts to validate the boot media as being genuine? 14:32:00 * ais523 suspects they guessed wrong again 14:32:11 i don't even kno 14:32:12 w 14:32:15 s/\nw/ 14:32:17 i just hate this thing :P 14:32:38 joy! 14:32:41 or rather 14:32:42 UNJOY 14:32:48 the quik-from-mac-os thing don't done no detect 14:32:55 so i'll have to boot the debian floppy again 14:32:56 <3 14:34:11 "do not done no detect" sounds weird 14:35:13 perhaps becuse it is 14:35:43 s/is/does/ ? 14:36:36 it sounds weird because it is weird 14:42:46 better 14:45:22 ehird: at least you aren't being eaten by sharks yet, better quit while you're ahead 14:45:42 [14:42] ehird: When installing Quik: 14:45:42 [14:42] ehird: "Unable to set the OpenFirmware boot-command variable. 14:45:42 [14:42] ehird: You may have intermittent boot failures." 14:45:43 [14:42] ehird: …very…specific? 14:45:46 ais523: are you sure about those sharks? 14:45:50 my leg feels vaguely painful. 15:14:13 AnMaster: sorry, I said woody is 2.4 15:14:15 it's actually 2.2 15:34:22 ehird, really? 15:34:27 yep 15:34:28 I think I had woody too on the Performa. I did get a 2.4 kernel mostly working though, I think, maybe. 15:34:42 i think i've found a way to do it modernly 15:34:47 without GOD DAMN FLOPPIES 15:37:14 But FLOPPIES have SOUL, you know. Unlike these cold and mechanistic and plasticy optical things. 15:39:28 fizzie: You can make it even more horrible by using a virtual CD rom drive. 15:39:34 (Well, that might not work with the booting crapolashitfuck.) 15:40:43 I think I can install it GRAPHICALLY, going STRAIGHT TO TESTING. 15:40:45 On to EXT4. 15:44:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:51:43 Preparing for burn 15:51:44 ICE BURN 15:54:42 hmm 15:54:59 the kernel can handle being on ext4, right? 15:55:01 just not grub 16:20:12 ..ok, why does my flash drive keep unmounting itself? 16:35:35 Hooray, it unmounted itself again! 16:35:38 * Sgeo shoots someone 16:47:33 ouch! 16:47:37 good job that was only a flesh wound... 16:48:18 On the plus side, new Fine Structure LD 16:48:19 :D 16:48:46 damn you ais523! (good job that was only a spiritual wound?) 16:49:19 ehird: stop it 16:49:31 seriously 16:49:39 hey, I haven't said that for _months_ 16:49:42 like, whole of 2009 16:49:46 doesn't make it any better now 16:49:47 i retract it blah blah 16:50:06 Um, what just happened? 16:50:14 Sgeo: ais523 really hates people damning him. 16:50:19 Sgeo: it takes a bullet a while to get from your location to mine 16:50:42 ais523: food for thought, though; if I said I found the word "esolang" deeply offensive and cruel, would you stop using it in my presence? 16:51:03 possibly, although in that case you'd be better off leaving this channel, because people tend to use it a lot here 16:51:11 Esolang you, ehird! >.> 16:51:16 Sgeo: ;_; 16:51:19 Meanie. 16:51:47 ais523: i'm aoulipophobic. i can't stand words with the letter "e" in them. 16:51:50 (after this line.) 16:55:07 ehird: That's eerie 16:55:16 ;_; 16:55:29 I wonder how you deal with your name 16:55:47 Foul ghoul! Why must you taunt my id? 16:57:17 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:57:18 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 16:58:15 Because thine id exists in a state of apparent strife with the supposed fear 16:59:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:59:52 Robotic summation! Gasps and wasps! Nightmar— all around— your sayings so; in calm allow me, or I shall inform you: zap! 17:00:30 fff 17:00:31 "me" 17:00:34 :-) 17:00:57 did you notice :( 17:01:12 how embarrassing 17:01:12 :P 17:01:19 Yes, I did :-P 17:05:25 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 17:07:01 -!- ehird has quit. 17:09:50 -!- ehird has joined. 17:20:14 -!- ehird has quit. 17:21:44 -!- ehird has joined. 17:34:57 -!- hivposi has joined. 17:37:31 -!- jix has joined. 17:43:08 hivposi: I am truly sorry for your lots 17:43:10 *truley 17:45:00 * ehird wonders what inspired hivposi to pick said name 17:45:26 boyfriend from highschool 17:45:51 I have nothing to say :P 17:47:28 hivposi: if you got cancer would you call yourself braintumo? 17:48:00 no but it would be appropriate regardless 17:48:51 hivposi: are you perhaps looking for magick to cure your ailment? this channel is about programming. 17:49:26 perhaps once i get some nano technology you can program a cure 17:50:19 So… uh… hi? 17:50:49 hi nice to meet you 17:50:59 This sure is awkward. 17:51:44 hey, who took the konami code out of the topic? 17:51:47 it was there for a reason... 17:51:58 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:51:59 Female in chat? Hmm. Been a few years. :P 17:52:19 ais523: that happened ages ago, man 17:52:21 pikhq: no no no 17:52:26 that student person 17:52:29 ehird: yes, but the reason has come back again 17:52:31 …liked mathematics 17:52:32 ? 17:52:38 Ah. 17:52:46 talked about drugs above the average amount iirc 17:52:57 my mental classification scheme would work better if I had a photographic memory :D 17:52:59 the whole point of the do not remove the %s under any circumstances was so people knew what the channel was about 17:53:04 it applies photographic transformations to fuzzy memories 17:53:06 although, why the %s became the konami code is beyond me 17:53:21 ais523: i'm not _entirely_ sure it would have helped in this case :P 17:53:47 -!- ehird has set topic: "must not be in the topic at all times" must not be in the topic at all times. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.. 17:54:57 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:56:20 pikhq: there are more openly gay people here than openly girl people, so how did you know hivposi is a girl? 17:56:55 Yeah I find it unlikely in this case. 17:57:13 Due to at least our general demographics if nothing else. 17:57:14 oklopol: Oh, right. 17:57:22 More gay geeks than girl geeks. 17:57:40 i mean even without considering the nick, which i associated with posix, not hiv, btw :P 17:57:51 And most of the girl geeks are homosexual. Whoo. 17:57:55 haha 17:57:59 maybe posix is my weak spot when it comes to puns. 17:58:06 pikhq: I find that to be generally untrue. 17:58:07 pikhq: was sukoshi? 17:58:14 oklopol: Bi. 17:58:19 sukoshi was totally hot for me 17:58:40 * pikhq misses Sukoshi. 17:58:54 Anyway, I'm going to be a gigantic asshole and assume that hivposi is an idiot for (a) managing to get HIV in high school and (b) for some strange reason adopting this as a moniker. 17:59:00 i miss the #esoteric that was about esolangs :D 17:59:01 News update: My asshole has taken off. 17:59:04 It is now orbiting the earth. 17:59:15 Correction. Inflationary measures now suggest that the earth is orbiting the asshole. 17:59:34 not infected, bad sense of humour 17:59:39 1/2 ? 18:00:03 ehird: i had tons of unprotected sex in high school 18:00:04 yet again i am struck by my inability to detect jokes that show no signs of being so 18:00:11 and in elementary school 18:00:16 And in preschool? 18:00:19 and in the womb 18:00:21 not so much, actually! 18:00:42 nerds weren't all that popular in preschool 18:01:14 GregorR: T-Rex is Lonely is also on Qwantz. 18:01:30 all i'm saying is not only idiots get sex diseases 18:01:33 Next up on Qwantz: Ryan North Fellates Gregor Richards 18:01:38 also those who don't like condoms 18:01:41 Hahah. 18:01:44 Followed by Also Have I Mentioned Gregor Richards Is Great? 18:02:06 oklopol: actually you're an idiot you just have a free life pass to be one 18:02:21 :D 18:03:15 he could be GregorTheGreat now that rodger is gone 18:03:36 GregorR: [[This is basically an experiment in "how silly does a concept have to be before Gregor WON'T buy a domain name for it?"]] 18:03:55 ehird: that's the wrong way round, the sillier, the more likely the domain name happens 18:03:59 Toiletry Products That Are Not For (A) Consumption, (B) Sex 18:04:07 I eagerly await the domain. 18:04:11 ais523: hey, complain to him, not me 18:04:12 he wrote it 18:04:31 GregorR: okay wait I have a new one 18:04:50 why am i staring at irc 18:04:59 see you... NOT :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 18:04:59 -> 18:05:12 Cloudsourced Folksonomy Determining the Exact Position of One Single Undetectable Dust Microbe on Russell's Teapot Using Methods Pioneered by the Invisible Pink Unicorn involving Time Cubic Principles 18:05:14 dot com 18:05:42 cloudsourcedfolksonomydeterminingtheexactpositionofonesingleundetectabledustmicrobeonrussellsteapotusingmethodspioneeredbytheinvisiblepinkunicorninvolvingtimecubicprinciples.com 18:05:59 does that even fit in a DNS? 18:06:12 Probably. 18:06:15 Meanwhile, http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,5&comics=583,869&strip 18:06:22 pretty sure that's more than 63 characters 18:08:00 just subdomainise it 18:15:10 -!- hivposi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:15:19 then it'll look like an efnet hostmask 18:17:03 :D 18:17:18 man, efnet is so crap 18:27:27 CFDEPOSUDMRTUMPIPUTCP 18:29:19 Compact flash defecation entering pillock's orifices — say, udders — demonstrating monotheism really turgidly umpires magical picking in Paris: understanding telephony; child pornography. 18:44:04 No? 18:57:13 Pong. 19:24:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:27:48 Warrigal: Gnip. 19:50:45 -!- ehird has quit. 19:56:44 -!- ehird has joined. 20:00:36 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit). 20:05:58 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 20:09:35 -!- ehird has joined. 20:42:23 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving"). 20:43:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:43:54 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 20:44:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:50:07 News update: My asshole has taken off. <-- did you attach a string to it so that we can use it as a space elevator? 20:50:17 Yes. 20:50:23 A sphincter elevator. 20:50:31 Sphinctelevator! 20:51:19 a small step for an asshole, a huge step for mankind 20:58:40 Meh, i thought of "string" as in text string first 20:58:50 Stop tricking my mind 20:59:57 And the judge has already denied SCO's request for expedited handling of the motion to shorten notice on its motion to sell the marketing of its Java patent. 21:00:10 the SCO bankruptcy is getting more recursive by the day 21:00:51 It's requesting expediting a motion to expedite a motion. 21:00:57 yes 21:01:09 Sorry, it is *moving* to request expediting a motion to expedite a motion. :P 21:03:25 you'd think all that would take more time than just doing the motion in the first place 21:03:46 and, of course, it all seems rather dubious that SCO patented Java in the first place, but you never know... 21:04:45 oh, and SCO tried to sell the stuff from Novell that they still have but doesn't belong to them for $13,129.51, they said it was a typo 21:05:45 I think that is about SCO's worth these days. 21:06:11 that's quite some typoo 21:06:13 *typo 21:06:21 * ais523 proves Muphry's law once again 21:06:50 SCO's worth is negative, surely 21:06:58 they operate, iirc, at a loss, and the anti-reputation is huge 21:07:14 I'm including physical assets. 21:07:17 ehird: their accounts showed rather large cash reserves 21:07:25 Surely their office buildings count for something. 21:07:45 of course, nobody's entirely sure whether to believe them 21:07:47 pikhq: factor in the huge risk of all that disappearing Quite Soon(TM) 21:08:20 I'm going with "worth if you liquidated all assets". :P 21:08:37 getting a mac rom that can run system 6.0.8 is proving difficult 21:08:46 (as opposed to minimum 7) 21:09:51 it's especially annoying because YOU CAN'T PURCHASE IT 21:10:02 the only way to get it is to hope someone wants to sell/give away theirs 21:10:07 then extract it 21:10:14 god copyright law is stupid 21:10:42 ehird: Especially annoying when you consider Apple gives away the OS install disks for free. 21:10:49 (classic Mac OS, that is) 21:10:50 yep, I'm trying to use them 21:10:56 I wonder why? 21:10:59 to please the fanboys? 21:11:10 ais523: because they're not worth anything 21:11:13 it makes sense, given that there isn't much of a use for them but making apple look good 21:11:14 and they're interesting historical curios 21:11:18 also, a bunch of people like them a lot 21:11:30 for instance, there are people who, as recently as 2001, used system 6 for their day to day tasks 21:11:39 ais523: And, well… http://system7today.com/ 21:11:43 That site actually runs on System 7. 21:11:45 does system 6 come just after system V? 21:11:50 Lawl. 21:11:51 Whoa. Debian is switching to timed releases. 21:11:57 Anyway, there's a— pikhq: seriously? 21:12:07 "Debian: Because, like, let's just become exactly like Ubuntu." 21:12:11 Yeah. 21:12:27 wasn't there a big move going on somewhere to make all major linux distros release on the same timetable? 21:12:32 ehird: Two-year cycle. 21:12:36 ais523: what a horrible idea 21:12:39 pikhq: correction — 21:12:43 ehird: I didn't actually believe it would take off 21:12:44 "Debian: Because, like, let's just become exactly like Ubuntu but a lot worse." 21:13:03 maybe they want to be come Ubuntu feeder 21:13:06 *become 21:13:14 they are anyway, but unofficially, and are still useful as an independent OS 21:13:18 maybe they're planning to merge, or something 21:13:23 although that would be relatively awful 21:13:35 Exception: the next release will be out next year. 21:13:40 I've held for a while that Debian should just merge with Ubuntu 21:13:51 Give a proper, well-maintained 100% free version alongside, 21:13:56 get the good attitude to upstreams 21:14:03 get the greatness of Ubuntu 21:14:06 and get Canonical's commercial support 21:14:12 Oh, wait. They've got time based *development freezes*. The release will happen after the freeze "when it's ready". 21:14:15 and reply to bug reports on time? 21:14:22 Exactly. 21:14:28 Ubuntu are good at integrating, marketing and funding. 21:14:31 Debian are good at the rest. 21:14:37 Separate teams are just counterproductive. 21:14:41 pikhq: x_x 21:18:01 I don't suppose anyone has an m68k Macintosh? :P 21:29:05 Mr. Spector was arguing that he still had time. One of the IBM lawyers had a stop watch. 21:29:11 (Spector is SCO's lawyer...) 21:32:48 I am impressed with IBM's balls. 21:34:06 there was a great moment a few weeks ago, where SCO had a last-minute agreement they'd just signed 21:34:16 so recently, in fact, that they only gave IBM and Novell one copy between them 21:34:31 didn't have more, how terrible 21:34:38 I thought that was a great move, if a rather unconventional one 21:35:18 someone should make a channel for esoteric lawyering... 21:36:16 ##nomic 21:36:25 haha 21:37:49 -!- Pavitra has joined. 21:38:16 And Pavitra checks out the fuss here, I take it 21:38:28 yes, a cross-channel issue 21:38:34 there are a lot of people in common between them 21:38:42 Yup. 21:39:03 Well, a lot of ##nomic. Less, proportionally, from #esoteric. 21:43:18 lol@bobthj/obama 21:44:36 -!- dbc has quit (Client Quit). 21:44:55 ehird: wrong channel 21:45:10 y'all mentioned the word nomic for several lines, so i get one 21:45:12 deal with it 21:45:25 :( 21:45:52 note to the confused: ehird refuses to join ##nomic 21:46:10 Note to the unconfused: ais523 delights in pointing out the fact that I don't talk in ##nomic every time it comes up. 21:46:22 I could do it some more if you like…? 21:46:31 Note to the notes: Those responsible for the notes have been sacked 21:46:46 Note to the pikhqs: Yes, but they were replaced by cards! 21:46:55 lol ehird 21:46:59 ohh snap 21:47:21 The recursion of that pun is mind-boggling. 21:49:52 -!- dbc has joined. 21:49:57 in fact i'm still discovering aspects of it 21:50:05 i'm not entirely convinced it isn't mutating behind my back 22:00:24 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 22:02:30 oh, we just did the calculations; apparently, a the weight of a £50 note in gold is worth about 75p at today's mass-market gold prices 22:02:41 (where 'we' is an unspecified set of people including me) 22:02:49 so a £20 note almost certainly is worth its weight in gold 22:03:05 erm 22:03:12 oh, i misread 22:03:38 its volume in gold would almost certainly be worth a lot more 22:30:42 -!- Pavitra has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:51:23 -!- comex_ has joined. 22:52:06 -!- comex_ has changed nick to comex. 23:14:53 . 23:15:45 succinct 23:15:50 . 23:16:32 now it is no longer succinct, since the two .'s could obviously have been compressed 23:17:03 ! 23:17:28 i really don't think shouting helps 23:18:26 .. 23:18:27 *... 23:18:57 *… 23:19:01 , 23:19:12 — 23:19:14 ; 23:19:19 () 23:19:20 . 23:19:23 {- -} 23:19:28 {-_-} 23:28:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:29:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 23:38:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 23:38:25 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 23:44:35 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").