< 1248998868 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1248999393 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-042-152.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1248999796 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249001057 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249001605 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249001652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FDA's revised 2009 food pyramid: http://imgur.com/b1b55.jpg < 1249001710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the RFDA, i assume < 1249001737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat\ < 1249001744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1249001751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit food and drugs administration < 1249001753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249001775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, in response to conservative think-tanks claiming the new chart was too revolutionary and untested, it has been modified: http://imgur.com/QUU57.jpg < 1249001784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't got around to reddit today yet < 1249001798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you work really modally, don't you? < 1249001837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, meaning what? < 1249001860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you browse your interwebs one site after another in huge binges :D < 1249001862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1249001865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still stuck in the iwc forum, which i read only thursdays and sunday < 1249001871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I mean? < 1249001875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a webternet schedule. < 1249001915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually the exception though. most others i visit once a day, when they update, or when rss tells me < 1249001935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for binge that is < 1249002021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least once a day, that is. if i run out of the usual sites i often revisit < 1249002033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i treat it all far too much like a schedule queue. < 1249002079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a webternet schedule. Its contents can be found in /dev/urandom. < 1249002107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you use an rss client?! < 1249002111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you use IE! < 1249002125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it was introduced in IE 7 < 1249002128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe IE does rss bookmark stuff nowadays. < 1249002129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1249002132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, he uses IE? < 1249002134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1249002144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an old norwegian curmudgeon < 1249002146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IE is why we can't have nice things. < 1249002147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, will never switch < 1249002151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he also uses Hugs. WinHugs. < 1249002158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also introduced tabs ;D < 1249002166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Is that still maintained¿ < 1249002168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GHC doesn't have a Windows interface, don't you know. :) < 1249002172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Hugs? No. < 1249002174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i read my email in pine, via putty < 1249002179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even its creator tells people to use GHC. < 1249002185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinHugs is also unmaintained. < 1249002218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cvs.haskell.org/Hugs/pages/latest.htm ;; latest hugs releases: Nov 2003, Mar 2005, May 2006, September 2006 < 1249002227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov 2003 is the most recent major release. < 1249002242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am sticking your hard drive in a degaussing coil and destroying your software installation disks and mandating a filter that repeats this process if a Windows executable is discovered on your Internet link. < 1249002447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very aggressive of you. are you sure you have taken your vitamins? < 1249002843 0 :augur!n=augur@74.2.28.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249002885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's give oerjan a macintosh with system 7! < 1249002891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah yeah I'm old-mac geeking shut up.) < 1249002898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, back to the joke. < 1249002905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be a huge upgrade! < 1249002912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A/UX. < 1249002929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you do know that A/UX basically ran macintosh binaries via an API emulation layer sort of thing right? < 1249002940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1249002942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still restricted to a fixed memory size etc < 1249002953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was also UNIX. < 1249002964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not really. < 1249002968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the bottom layer was Unix. < 1249002976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not one thing on top < 1249002978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249002999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on top"? Uh. < 1249003010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on top. < 1249003024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was basically the Macintosh operating system with hardware interaction replaced with Unix calls. < 1249003083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A/UX Finder was a native UNIX program. < 1249003119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Remember that in the days we're talking about, the Finder WAS the operating system, more or less. < 1249003184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it totally did X. < 1249003201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test { f (Test f) } deriving Show; main = putStrLn . take 100 . fix (Test . Just) < 1249003259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It did X, yes… you could either boot into X, in which case it was 0% Macintosh, or you could use an application that did X. < 1249003265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)) deriving Show; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That application simply ran X on top of the Macintosh OS. < 1249003283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not integrated in any sense; you could port it to a non-A/UX Macintosh System Software! < 1249003300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that X server had a fixed RAM of, IIRC, 8 megabytes. < 1249003309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope you don't run any graphically intensive programs. …like Mozilla… < 1249003322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah ghc cannot deduce it has all the prerequisites for the instance :( < 1249003352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Test { f (Test f) }"? < 1249003354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax be unvalid. < 1249003356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wat < 1249003357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1249003359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you changed it < 1249003374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Test f = Test (Test f) might be inferable < 1249003390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what i want < 1249003402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said < 1249003404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1249003419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now* you remember! < 1249003428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see it cannot realize f gives a Show < 1249003445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = (Show f) => Test (f (Test f)) deriving Show; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have been able to add that prerequisite, i think < 1249003462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong kind, ehird < 1249003463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = (Show (f a)) => Test (f (Test f)) deriving Show; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249003474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24] EgoBot: /tmp/input.19244.hs:2:0: < 1249003474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:24] EgoBot: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1249003474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1249003477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^0/[0/ < 1249003482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also => in data do nothing for instances < 1249003493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1249003497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *does? < 1249003521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took it as plural < 1249003529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249003531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=>s, clearly. < 1249003609 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249003777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts UndecidableInstances #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003836 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.5190.hs:1:30: cannot parse LANGUAGE pragma < 1249003854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, only _one_ allowed? < 1249003894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 . show $ fix (Test . Just) < 1249003932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just < 1249003938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it worked < 1249003999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painfully, but still < 1249004030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f) where { show (Test x) = show x }; main = putStrLn . take 100 . show $ fix (Test . (:[])) < 1249004032 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ < 1249004190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's evil. Truly evil. < 1249004227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1249004254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); deriving instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f); main = putStrLn . take 100 . show $ fix (Test . (:[])) < 1249004275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck? < 1249004298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: for some incomprehensible reason that gave me a DCC listing of the root directory < 1249004334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1249004335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249004336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249004346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances, StandaloneDeriving #-} import Data.Function(fix); data Test f = Test (f (Test f)); deriving instance Show (f (Test f)) => Show (Test f); main = putStrLn . take 100 . show $ fix (Test . (:[])) < 1249004349 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test [Test < 1249004360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what's the point of this again? :D < 1249004365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always another pragma to add :) < 1249004394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should use ghc < 1249004399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has pragmas up the wazoobutt < 1249004415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a recursive datatype with flexible constructor? < 1249004427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whyfort art touh < 1249004437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: GHC has everything. < 1249004440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a kitchen sink. < 1249004457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really :P < 1249004474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh who is that person thingy < 1249004493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! yes < 1249004498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, oerjan: WinGHCi. < 1249004499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/winghci/ < 1249004529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1249004592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: since I'm kind, have a ghc windows installer link: < 1249004602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://haskell.org/ghc/dist/6.10.4/ghc-6.10.4-i386-windows.exe < 1249004638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then unpack http://winghci.googlecode.com/files/WinGhci-1.0-bin.zip to C:\WinGHC or something, and run Install.exe < 1249004661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then .hs files open in it, and WinGhci.exe is the REPL. < 1249004687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not C:\WinGHC < 1249004689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\WinGhci < 1249004712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later < 1249004718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1249004719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we lost him. < 1249004721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a good effort. < 1249004736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU SHALL DO PENANCE FOR YOUR SINS! < 1249004753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, might I recommend installing Cygwin, or Gentoo GNU/Windows, or Debian GNU/Windows? < 1249004770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you open this file, it'll change winhugs to use ghc (which it will install) automatically, with no clicking: http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.5.1&os=win&lang=en-US < 1249004783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do those latter two exist? < 1249004793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1249004794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the Debian one doesn't < 1249004799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: googling says no. < 1249004809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I could've *sworn* Debian had one. < 1249004809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nice try < 1249004813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo does, though. < 1249004815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither, in fact. < 1249004816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: link? < 1249004823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why do you use IE, incidentally? < 1249004824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must think i am _blind_ too < 1249004833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it came with the computer < 1249004870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://debian-interix.net/ and http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/ < 1249004882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and why do you further the pain of web designers and developers everywhere instead of briefly installing a browser? :( < 1249004897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prefix is for a variety of UNIXes, including Interix. < 1249004910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix doesn't count. < 1249004929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's an entire POSIX subsystem! < 1249004943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which just needs a credible userspace! < 1249004952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could accept cygwin + a replacement for the WM. < 1249004963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you can get Blackbox for Windows, for instance. < 1249004972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make one that uses an X11 window manager, somehow. < 1249004983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Get it to decorate a fake window of the right size around the Windows window?) < 1249004984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is significantly harder to do. < 1249004988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1249004998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReactOS with some patching? < 1249005005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw. You can do it with just plain Windows. < 1249005023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be able access all of the Windows stuff seamlessly from "X11", and also run X11 apps just the same < 1249005024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249005032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be cool. < 1249005051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OS X/X11 is something I've been considering a while < 1249005070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That would be pretty awesome. < 1249005075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set your background to whatever background you'll use in X11, hide the dock, hide the menu in the Finder and X11 (there's a hack to do this), < 1249005080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set the X11 to open on startup, < 1249005086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then set X11 to fullscreen with meta keys going to X11, < 1249005100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have a certified Unix with X11, running on the sturdy Quartz system. < 1249005112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, you won't inherit Quartz's PDF base and compositing, but you won't get any graphical glitches. < 1249005121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless they're part of X11's logic rather than its hardware interaction). < 1249005127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\)\./.)/ < 1249005139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I discovered something somewhat interesting today: Étoilé. Basically, it intends to be GNUstep minus the suck. < 1249005151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Étoilé is based on GNUstep, actually. < 1249005153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is to say, it intends to be OS X plus suck minus suck) < 1249005163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, and it removes the suck. < 1249005170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nextstep isn't OS X at all. < 1249005171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, GNUstep minus the suck quite literally. < 1249005178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very markedly different. < 1249005186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etoile is kinda cool but ehh < 1249005193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The application set sucks at the moment < 1249005202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's built on X11 for backwards compatibility, except you're meant to use all its apps. < 1249005209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, okay, it's built on X11 because gnustep is and it's there.) < 1249005218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the main reason I've not switched. < 1249005228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to at least try it out) < 1249005243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, they'd best achieve their application-deemphasising goal with their own OS. < 1249005250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fundamentally a compromise, but it's a purist compromise, so to speak. < 1249005277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their Objective-C Smalltalk is nice, though. < 1249005301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda wish they'd at *least* not build it on X. < 1249005326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, it totally seems like something that'd be worth doing from the OS on up. < 1249005355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically see Unix/X11 as a dead end; you really can't transcend past the systems we have today, because if you try to, you run into its fundamentally exposed implementation details. < 1249005369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is irritating that writing an OS involves so much stuff. < 1249005378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, there's always the lure of replacing the hardware. Sigh. < 1249005414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIX *concept* doesn't seem like much of a dead end. < 1249005429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It isn't as much so, but Plan 9 ends the line. < 1249005441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fair enough. < 1249005463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In becoming more flexible, you realise that the idea of a hierarchy (what a stupid structure! so restricted for no reason…) of "files" of bytes is not the natural way to represent pretty much anything. < 1249005486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not your personal files; hierarchies are an unnatural way to organise things and have a large cognitive overhead. < 1249005505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the interfaces; because if they're so great at it, why have C? Why not just have files and a "file FFI", so to speak? < 1249005513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because an array of bytes isn't directly usable. < 1249005531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you generalise and say that everything is an object, and "files" are just named objects... < 1249005532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what, you say, of tools? To which I reply, why are tools and functions separate? < 1249005541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But, see, a name isn't really the best way to go about it. < 1249005546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's such a restricted way of doing it. < 1249005550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that still separates memory and disk. < 1249005590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you want something truly, radically different. < 1249005627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see it. (no, really; there's been like 0 change in operating system design since the 80s) < 1249005635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do want something radically different. < 1249005669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, good UI. < 1249005679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My plan is to start just above the BIOS (i.e. the operating system; though my plan makes it a rather vague notion); it's impossible to replace the BIOS in the AMD64 environment and I don't think making my own hardware will be too successful. < 1249005733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic critic would probably be "providing things like garbage collection in the OS is bloat and restrictive!", and my reply is that (a) since everything is the operating system, there is no real "bloat" and (b) a unified sewerage system is restrictive, too. < 1249005844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, one thing you'd be doing is "fuck filesystems"; the hard drive would be nothing more than nonvolatile object store... < 1249005854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SSD-optimised, man. :) < 1249005879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But anything that stores things on disk is a filesystem. < 1249005924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fine. Screw the idea of "the filesystem is a tree of files". < 1249005931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With names" < 1249005976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249006005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, screw the idea of kernels, more or less. < 1249006018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, screw the idea of binary blobs as processes; I want a damn unified object system. < 1249006026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's significantly harder to do (but vaguely feasible) < 1249006055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, screw just about every orthodox notion in GUIs. (Subclause: Obey Fitt's Law vehemently. I *will* make the mouse cool again, dammit.) < 1249006076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the Law of Least Surprise? < 1249006102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raskin had a wonderful thing about that; intuitiveness is meaningless. It means, in common parlance, "familiar". < 1249006122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal of a UI should be, when it has been learned, as close to zero cognitive overhead as possible. < 1249006132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The focus should be on the task and nothing else; this isn't really possible, but you should approach it. < 1249006140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Least surprise" just means minimal cognitive overhead, really. < 1249006145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1249006150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raskin's ideas are pretty much perfect. < 1249006157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to version every object, pretty much. < 1249006169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always undo, never prompt ("formatting a disk" shut up that's niche) < 1249006172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of, say, the Windows model of "AIIIYIIII! I MUST YELL AT YOU AT RANDOM!!!" < 1249006198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE CONNECTED A DEVICE TO YOUR COMPUTER < 1249006213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINDOWS: FIGHTING SECONDS-LATER AMNESIA SINCE 198— WHAT WAS I SAYING AGAIN? < 1249006222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those freaking "notifications" must die. < 1249006233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE, sadly, has them. < 1249006239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least you can turn them off there) < 1249006249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1249006256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notifications should be when someone talks to you, pretty much. < 1249006262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically it, apart from things like system upgrades. < 1249006289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, one UI want that a lot of people overlook: Stable. < 1249006290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, < 1249006299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wave your mouse around everywhere, things don't pop down and out and around. < 1249006312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, some discrete hover effects are okay and the like. < 1249006320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, at most a highlight effect? < 1249006322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a pixel's move shouldn't cause a gigantic popup menu. < 1249006338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This goes back to law of least surprise. < 1249006341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's a general principle, really; the interface should only change more than a little in response to you actually do anything. < 1249006342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed. < 1249006354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's amazing how much of good design boils down to that) < 1249006416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always appreciated a little bit of understated eye candy in UIs. < 1249006421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps direct the eyes, I think. < 1249006453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understated, certainly. < 1249006462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249006470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you're not forced to actually pay attention to it. < 1249006477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is just distracting) < 1249006534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main blocker for my OS is that I don't want to use C and I have a distrust of bootstrapping. < 1249006556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And writing a super-speedy high-level language implementation in assembly is how-do-i-put-this. < 1249006568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absurdly difficult. < 1249006586 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249006600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only commonly used language that's easy to get running from assembly is C. < 1249006633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249006655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C isn't really an option… it doesn't fit. < 1249006694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mh. < 1249006727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, C had that as a design goal. < 1249006761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C (the PDP-11 assembler that thinks it's a language)" — jwz < 1249006810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also trying to incorporate interwebby things into it from the start. < 1249006828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: On the webternets, documents are volatile: nobody needs to ask you to change an object they own. < 1249006852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hush. C is not a PDP-11 assembler. < 1249006857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a PDP-7 assembler. < 1249006863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get it right. < 1249006875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lead to me thinking about installing components (= sets of objects and methods), and I think using components directly from the 'net but caching them locally could work. On the other hand, that sounds like a leaky abstraction; like RPC and nfs. < 1249006881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell Zawinski :P < 1249007165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249008571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1249009379 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249009891 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249009894 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249010648 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-116-39.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249010736 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249013344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=User:Sgeo/mutation < 1249015996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249016336 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249019674 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249019858 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249020536 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249020587 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249020745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back from vacation, bringing with me several great^H^H^H^H^Hhorrible ideas < 1249020758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249020781 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249021161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ehird isn't here to criticize my ideas and/or explain how Haskell already does that < 1249021655 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249021702 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249024404 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249024642 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-117-183.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249024689 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249027199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249027200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249030529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249031113 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249031270 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-160.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249031723 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249032113 0 :Xiin!n=X@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust781.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249032892 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p57B184F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249033879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1249036051 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249036777 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249036997 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-100.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249037860 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249039785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249039938 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249040887 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249041644 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :KingOfKarlsruhe < 1249044335 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249044388 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249045579 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-dnoukrathdxxhbtp JOIN :#esoteric < 1249047265 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249047350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:19:21 oh, ehird isn't here to criticize my ideas and/or explain how Haskell already does that < 1249047351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but I am! < 1249047448 0 :nice!n=nice@p57B1A368.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249047473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:09:04 http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=User:Sgeo/mutation < 1249047474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1249047478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nice. < 1249047491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a game that I liked < 1249047493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It died in 2005 < 1249047510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...that on December 5, 2008, Activeworlds, Inc., renewed every single citizenship from 1995 to today for thirty days?" < 1249047518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you missed it again :P < 1249047609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On March 3rd 2008 at approximately 7:45 PM, the world was upgraded to P-3750 from P-3000 by Flagg." < 1249047616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doesn't look dead to me? < 1249047704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutation was one world in AW, I think that's a different world < 1249047747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1249048366 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249048895 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249051041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249051155 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1249051493 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1249052104 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249054347 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249054554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA < 1249054556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mastered Safari < 1249054558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and beat it with a stick < 1249054567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By editing its internal interface files I have removed the google search field from the location field < 1249054588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINIMALISM WILL TRIUMPH < 1249054588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEIL HITLER! < 1249054588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—MINIMALIST HITLER! < 1249054630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any relation to tiny carl jung? < 1249054640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you're a BITCH. < 1249054644 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fancy to screen your Safari? < 1249054660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: As soon as I decide whether or not to obliterate the backwards/forwards buttons! < 1249054666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards "no" < 1249054689 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should clean up my Opera layout < 1249054694 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's already quite slim < 1249054721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Look at every button or other UI element you haven't used in a week, and remove it. < 1249054732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the same, but more conservatively, for the last 5 days. < 1249054743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find yourself going through menus to use something all the time, add it back. < 1249054770 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already hidden unnecessary stuff such as status bar and menu bar < 1249054776 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1249054812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fiddles with the .nib some more to remove the remaining space < 1249054814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does minimalist godwin's law only apply to twitter threads? < 1249054826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I... have no fucking clue :P < 1249054872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good. the conservatives will be pleased. < 1249054884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you have no clue about fucking, that is. < 1249054903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_------------------ < 1249054926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure he can fully interpret that smiley < 1249055030 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long eye is long < 1249055147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari! You are under arrest for an UNREASONABLE amount of interface whitespace! < 1249055259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's not whitespace. those are tiny wilderness preserves! < 1249055271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Administrative debris, perhaps? ;-) < 1249055367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or actually, safari is the only browser to practice feng shui in its rendering < 1249055414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would not be fortunate to draw anything in those spots < 1249055433 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's why the tabs are upside-down < 1249055467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"upside-down"? < 1249055477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: actually, that is just in the western hemisphere < 1249055492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1249055494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut? < 1249055507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is geographically confused < 1249055520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: My webbrowser already *has* a minimalist interface. < 1249055542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) I didn't talk to you, (2) key invocations count as part of an interface. < 1249055542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a scrollbar to the left, a small bar showing the current location, and a minibuffer. < 1249055577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor difference with key invocations: at least the ones you're not using aren't in your face. < 1249055639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is completely irrelevant as any decent interface will be dimmed enough to be unnoticeable: there is still the overhead of remembering and utilising these invocations, just as there is with graphical elements. < 1249055647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphical elements are usually superior because they are *discoverable*. < 1249055789 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rapidfiles.net/images/87270tmp9.png <-- Never mind that I accidentally did a find for space < 1249055806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks good to me. < 1249055824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That search would help when programming in Whitespace. < 1249055845 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but a real IDE with syntax highlighting would be better < 1249055858 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though highlighting whitespace is a bit ironical < 1249055891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironical is an ironical word. < 1249055906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: with so many tabs in one window i'd probably try the graphical preview tab thingy btw < 1249055907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom < 1249055912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And you have to discover them all the time. < 1249055918 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it a bit < 1249055923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: uhh, no? < 1249055950 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem is, each preview is really small anyway < 1249055954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but really, you're a linux/x11 user, of course you prefer shortcut-based programs because all your UIs suck :-P < 1249055958 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I use the hover-preview feature quite a lot < 1249055960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: make it bigger? < 1249055979 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each preview is only the size of a tab? < 1249056001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: If you use the graphical tab bar thing you can resize it to be bigger. < 1249056021 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but only in one direction (the height) < 1249056031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249056035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: if you put it on the side maybe? < 1249056098 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1249056106 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I like my tabs as they are < 1249056833 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249057119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249058030 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249058361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try running OS X/X11 :-D < 1249058611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well < 1249058621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what wm/de should i use :D < 1249058705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratpoison! < 1249058713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249058815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mmmmmmmno :P < 1249058822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe dwm < 1249058823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249058826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just install X11 to start with < 1249058830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use tw fuckin' m < 1249058840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, it'll be a fucking pain to get it all restored when I get bored < 1249058841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh well! < 1249058852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm's a royal pain. < 1249058861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I love it < 1249058915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd make a video of it booting up after this, but my iphone can't do that :( < 1249058933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1249058936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should grab that X11 opening screen < 1249058940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternating black/white < 1249058980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes his own < 1249059071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249059155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249059158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perfect but it'll do < 1249059207 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249059211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm basically detonating a nuclear bomb to have a pretty light show here < 1249059216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to put eeeeeeverything back manually < 1249059284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the Dock totally, replaces the Finder with X11 < 1249059287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should keep backups. < 1249059772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just ridiculous. < 1249059809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you do? < 1249060040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hehe well < 1249060051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm disabling every single part of mac os x that isn't vital, then replacing the Finder with X11 < 1249060055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 on Quartz! < 1249060062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, seems logical < 1249060065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that putting it all back will be a fucking pain < 1249060076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well it involves moving a lot of system files around and then forgetting about them. < 1249060225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm having to switch windows by doing open -a 'app' in the terminal < 1249060227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even cmd-tab works < 1249060382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, how's it logical :P < 1249060428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I hate Apple < 1249060687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right i remember you hate apple because… actually i don't even recall you giving a reason < 1249060687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quartz is an apple technology anyway, so suck it < 1249060687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, x11 compiles slowly. < 1249060687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Apple because of their business practices < 1249060687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing against their product < 1249060699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's fekking crazy. < 1249060708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have nothing against their product then removing the apple stuff would not warrant "logical" < 1249060711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This coming from a guy who hates his mouse. < 1249060712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I already bought it. < 1249060722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's intermediate :P < 1249060736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are better companies than apple to hate < 1249060762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they comply by licenses, they release code they don't even have to, and it's an open platform… the iphone is a fuck up, but totally unrelated < 1249060793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249060800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touched a nerve? < 1249060958 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249060966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523! < 1249060989 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249061052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while I was on vacation I had a horrible horrible idea < 1249061064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't involve murder it isn't horrible. < 1249061266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well? < 1249061277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, got sidetracked < 1249061288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you should never d ooh shiny < 1249061320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language where each subexpression is, rather than interpreted and evaluated in some other manner, simply pattern matched against every available function < 1249061339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249061343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell coppro how mathematica works < 1249061350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it doesn't < 1249061355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249061358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not like that :P < 1249061364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it's all pattern matching behind the scenes < 1249061379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with lots of calls out to C in an attempt to gain a semblence of efficiency < 1249061394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, see Thutu, which is like Mathematica but with a considerably smaller stdlib < 1249061403 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the idea is to take it to a level of horribleness < 1249061409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, see Thutu < 1249061410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica is that horrible :P < 1249061412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thutu < 1249061417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, as ehird says, mathematica < 1249061477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, Haskell if *everything* were a case statement. You're mad, man. < 1249061488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at Thutu, which doesn't seem like what I want < 1249061511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it? is it something different from what you expected? < 1249061525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11 is installed < 1249061534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I declare my arbitrary pattern-matching functions to effectively alter the syntax < 1249061567 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249061689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in Thutu, you're more or less doing that; it's just that there are two syntaxes to think about, the syntax of Thutu (fixed), and the syntax of the string it operates on (variable) < 1249061904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where's the pattern matching? < 1249061908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not regex matching) < 1249061960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty, what WM should I use to start with! < 1249062114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you want a lightweight or heavyweight one? < 1249062125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... use Sugar < 1249062132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I haven't heard anyone hear claim they use it < 1249062132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just want something simple but conventional to get me into OS X/Quartz/X11 mode < 1249062143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *here < 1249062147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a single-tasking environment, so. < 1249062170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluxbox and xfce are the conventional relatively simple ones, aren't they? < 1249062238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate fluxbox and xfce is a DE < 1249062246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe lwm < 1249062249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249062267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lwm it is < 1249062274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1249062276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no package < 1249062278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm it is :P < 1249062341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to nominate that for "craziest damned thing done to OS X", mmkay? < 1249062360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249062378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is this your classic mac box? < 1249062383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell no < 1249062388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing runs Mac OS 9.1 < 1249062402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were trying to get it to run Linux < 1249062408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm basically making an X11/Unix system, except the X11 server runs on top of Quartz as the graphics backend < 1249062414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on OS X < 1249062421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quartz is what powers OS X's regular GUI < 1249062426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like implementing X11 using GDI on Windows? < 1249062427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm disabling everything, setting X11 to start up fullscreen < 1249062431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorta, yeah < 1249062452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll also use the keyboard/mouse from OS X's gui < 1249062545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Thou art mad. < 1249062556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so good chap < 1249062564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be totally awesome if OS X windows were being managed by the X11 window manager, though. < 1249062576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas impossible < 1249062578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not sure why you'd do that, mind, but it would be awesome. < 1249062670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, time to do it < 1249062676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this breaks, i love you guys! or something < 1249062709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % cd /System/Library/CoreServices < 1249062709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/System/Library/CoreServices] % sudo mv Finder.app Finder.old.app < 1249062710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1249062710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/System/Library/CoreServices] % sudo ln -s /Applications/MacPorts/X11.app/ Finder.app < 1249062710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/System/Library/CoreServices] % < 1249062714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now to restart < 1249062721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249062890 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249062892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, it worked. < 1249062917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1249062922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249062932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any easy way to start applications from here? < 1249062933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went a bit weird when I tried to restart, but starting it up manually... it just worked. < 1249062938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: twm menu, xterms < 1249062964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 44 ?? 0:00.02 /bin/sh /Library/Parallels/Parallels Service.app/Conten < 1249062968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ts/Resources/ParallelsDispatcherService start < 1249062970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tut tut < 1249062988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the elegance of OS X's Unixy underpinnings with all the beauty of X11. ... Wait, that can't be right. < 1249062992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249062996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quite :-D < 1249063012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh a lot of vmware fusion stuff too < 1249063027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, if I unfullscreen x11 i don't have any cursor < 1249063028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcore < 1249063039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1249063043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be done by Finder.app usually. < 1249063048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the blue startup background and the menubar :D < 1249063051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm going to disable the menubar < 1249063059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so control-option-a will become my "YAY BLUE" key < 1249063072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, hey, I have Finder.app open! < 1249063076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just happens to be a symlink to X11 ;-) < 1249063080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1249063099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really works snappily, this < 1249063141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, if i get rid of parallels and vmware fusion, i'll just have system stuff, the ui server, and x11 < 1249063145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kickass < 1249063145 0 :not_from_mibbit!n=not_from@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249063152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello not_from_mibbit/ais523 < 1249063162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um okay i need a browser for this thing < 1249063163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1249063166 0 :not_from_mibbit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249063168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe epiphany < 1249063173 0 :not_from_mibbit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I am ais523, obviously < 1249063184 0 :not_from_mibbit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249063185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i hate sloppy focus < 1249063199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey pikhq! should i install gnome or kde on this? optimise for hilarity, not practicality. < 1249063209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnome is always more hilarious < 1249063217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm offended; I like gnome. < 1249063223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Both. < 1249063226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run Gnome with Kwin. < 1249063227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ew. < 1249063240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kwin is the worst part of KD E:P < 1249063241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*KD E:P < 1249063243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249063244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*KDE :P < 1249063256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine. Sawtooth and KDE. < 1249063259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A gnome is more hilarious than some dragon any day < 1249063269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, yes, the window manager GNOME hasn't used since 2002) < 1249063281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think Gnome's mascot is a gnome :-P < 1249063287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's one of them foot-shaped gnomes. < 1249063289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Irrelevant < 1249063292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be, anyway. < 1249063293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face is irrelevant. < 1249063299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%x",'#') < 1249063301 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 < 1249063302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, you're right. < 1249063315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, my mouse wheel works in w3m in an xterm. < 1249063322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... unexpected. < 1249063359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: X adds more features all the time, and terminal apps can does mouse. < 1249063379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not just that, it handles clicks too < 1249063382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1249063392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less surprising < 1249063393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that you have to double-click on links to follow them? < 1249063395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249063407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, less handles the wheel without mouse handling < 1249063416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I knew you could handle the buttons < 1249063419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mouse wheel in a terminal with curses grabbing defaults to simulating up/down keypresses < 1249063426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm going to restart now to test the menu hid-- fuck, I don't know how to restart. < 1249063436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just tell init to restart? < 1249063443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No init; this is X11. < 1249063449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Launchd probably has a shutdown command or whatever. < 1249063452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249063454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is OS X < 1249063460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, sparta. < 1249063472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try sudo telinit 6, they may have implemented telinit anyway < 1249063479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have not. < 1249063481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : shutdown Prepare for system shutdown < 1249063485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prepare" worries me < 1249063492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% which shutdown < 1249063492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/shutdown < 1249063494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh! < 1249063507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sudo shutdown -r now < 1249063509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249063538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They stopped using init years ago. < 1249063541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249063551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: still, telinit is pretty easy to implement even without init < 1249063569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably implement it for Windows in a few lines of cmd batch script < 1249063642 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249063645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update: < 1249063650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu bar is still there but now i have a mouse in OS X mode < 1249063652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this confuses me. < 1249063670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow awesome < 1249063675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I open an OS X app, it goes to the blue OS X mode < 1249063677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and opens it there < 1249063678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I quit < 1249063680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes back to X11 < 1249063684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unintentional integration FTW! < 1249063829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of how windows 3.1 ran dos apps < 1249063839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1249063855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it just happens because X11 defocuses for the new app, then when it closes it focuses X11 back :) < 1249063872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 3.1 had a DOS console. It only becomes fullscreen when the DOS app uses graphics routines. < 1249063893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but nobody used the DOS console because it was rather buggy < 1249063901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could set it to fullscreen console apps too < 1249063908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1249064004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is amazed that Microsoft released IE5 for Windows 3.1... < 1249064049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, more amazing: Windows 3.11 stopped being sold in *2008*... < 1249064051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay guys, gnome or kde < 1249064055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: o_O < 1249064114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you considering KDE 3 or 4? < 1249064121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde 4, naturally < 1249064131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, 4's still too buggy to really use day-to-day < 1249064136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd go for Gnome with that choice < 1249064140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong < 1249064154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have been right, like, a year ago. < 1249064155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sorts of weird things happen when I try to use the packaged version here < 1249064163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I last tried a couple of months ago < 1249064172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame ubuntu < 1249064177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1249064426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1249064430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm can grow a window but not shrink it < 1249064485 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-199.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249064498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, TWM doesn't... Do much. < 1249064561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises he'll have to compile gnome or kde, ew < 1249064564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll take years < 1249064585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they in macports? < 1249064602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249064662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not hard, just time-consuiming < 1249064884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I'm bored of this; how predictable < 1249064957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to disappoint but i'm reverting. < 1249065025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249065201 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249065280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think up a workable syntax for Stutter < 1249065294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that your rewriter thing? < 1249065314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249065320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have one rewrite rule, /regex/ → "replacement string" < 1249065324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few primitives < 1249065324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1249065326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not regexes < 1249065329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pattern matching < 1249065333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same fuckin' thing < 1249065341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249065365 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249065379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching is a semantic element of a language; regexes are text processing < 1249065411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexps are just pattern matching on strings. < 1249065432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: seen OIL? < 1249065443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather INTERCAL-specific, but it's a domain-specific language that does pattern matching on trees < 1249065453 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't < 1249065487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's documented in the C-INTERCAL Revamped Manual < 1249065490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one of the appendices < 1249065502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a tonsil? < 1249065502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it to write INTERCAL optimisers, it's a language specifically designed for just one thing < 1249065509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nah, wrong manual < 1249065516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking that all "true" keywords will have to be delimited, say with # < 1249065532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why keywords? < 1249065536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching doesn't need keywords < 1249065544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some sort of built-ins < 1249065549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249065564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching's TC even without built-ins < 1249065566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some constructs cannot be expressed in the language itself < 1249065583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty rubbish language if that's the case < 1249065585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you need to define pattern matching < 1249065591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*define patterns < 1249065601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that with pattern matching < 1249065607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, the regress will need to bottom out somewhere < 1249065622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. man, that came out wrong. I meant that some constructs cannot be constructed with the language but must be expressed directly in it < 1249065630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you thinking of? < 1249065636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue is TC, to give you an idea of what I'm getting at < 1249065663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but Thue has a built-in ::= construct < 1249065674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to define the pattern < 1249065736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, I want a type system < 1249065766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, it is my opinion that Carthage must be destroyed. < 1249065795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a mechanism to interface with it < 1249065808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a string-rewriting language < 1249065910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's description was closest < 1249065927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ah, ok, so it's more OIL-like than thutu-like < 1249065932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term-rewriting, presumably < 1249065945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIL has a fixed type system, presumably you're going for something more flexible < 1249065947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249065963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you link to the C-INTERCAL manual, or is that in the package? < 1249065975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the package, or should be < 1249065985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an online version somewhere too, try http://select.intercal.org < 1249065985 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249066136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249066153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not on Linux right now :/ < 1249066236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to decide between true term rewriting and more traditional imperative evaluation, except using pattern matching to determine what to do in every instance < 1249066285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest headache is recursive constructs < 1249066351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for j in { for i in foo do bar done} do {baz} done should clearly be allowed < 1249066398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about without the braces? < 1249066546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: `` for the first set of braces < 1249066553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or $() if you want it to nest < 1249066573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean "for j in for i in foo do bar done do baz done" < 1249066578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory it's parseable < 1249066587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's trivially parsable < 1249066589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially, Lua parses like that < 1249066601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing a pattern matching rule for that is nasty < 1249066605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm no it's not < 1249066612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you have recursive patterns < 1249066623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, just go look up perl6 regexes, rather than reinventing the wheel < 1249066630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to perl5 regexes, I think they do exactly what you want < 1249066636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not regexes, dammit! < 1249066643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't really regexes, just called that < 1249066645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 regexes aren't < 1249066648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, stop saying "not regexes" < 1249066649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're more some sort of massive BNF < 1249066660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the freaking regexes out of your head < 1249066666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1249066668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fu < 1249066678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the issue is, you seem to have a predefined concept of what a regex is < 1249066687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: said it better than i could have < 1249066692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas what you're doing is /exactly/ the way regexes were generalised for, say, perl6 and cyclexa < 1249066701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I'm not looking for text replacement < 1249066707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: exactly < 1249066707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're being stupid. stop that. < 1249066711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not good to be stupid :P < 1249066723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl6 regexes do general pattern matching < 1249066729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can match them on arrays, for instance < 1249066734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or complex data structures < 1249066896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... apparently emacs now shows PDFs < 1249066967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... reading the Apocalypse - still looks like text matching < 1249066990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they start with the bits that perl5 programmers will understand < 1249067052 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249067096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you point out where it says you can match arbitrary structures in a non-string manner? < 1249067198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Emacs has a very hard time figuring out how to add impressive new features. ;) < 1249067198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in perl6 you create the arbitrary structures from strings with the regices, which isn't quite what you're doing, but similar < 1249067211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they also added M-x butterfly, but I can't find a source saying what it does < 1249067251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: xkcd reference. < 1249067255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1249067262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just because it's an xkcd reference doesn't explain what it does < 1249067270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nabble.com/Support-for-butterfly-editing-td15349699.html < 1249067273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking something more like ML pattern matching < 1249067289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Command: Use butterflies to flip the desired bit on the drive platter. < 1249067344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you type it M-x butterfly C-M-c; they had to permute C-x M-c M-butterfly to get it to fit within the usual command sequences < 1249067467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not to get it to fit within the usual command sequences. That permutation is to press the butterfly key without physically having one. < 1249067471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249067488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the source of this thing to see how it's implemented < 1249067962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, one improvement in emacs 23 that might be everyday-useful < 1249067975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249067975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can now type C-x 8 RET in order to enter special characters by hex code or name < 1249067992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's useful. < 1249068014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION C-x 8 RET GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA < 1249068017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even tab-completes! < 1249068056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, a funny percentage indicator for "loading unicode character names" when I first pressed the tab. < 1249068368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the new behaviour of C-l is useful, I've been using that a lot < 1249068386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use emacs-snapshot, so I've had many of emacs 23's changes for ages) < 1249068431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antialiasing is also nice. < 1249068914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249069056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what your senseless praise of emacs did! Now ehird has quit. < 1249069082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x butterfly C-M-c would be a lot more useful if it could flip bits on other people's drives < 1249069103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly. < 1249069165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's ask testlm-disk.pl about Emacs. "emacs is objectively superior... nice title animation, video, pictures?! it isn't an executable" < 1249069218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aliens use rj45. < 1249069823 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://narc.oti.cz/ < 1249070370 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249070593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ehird < 1249070670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:07] pikhq: http://www.nabble.com/Support-for-butterfly-editing-td15349699.html < 1249070684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lame, they should use the 1-bit-a-month error rate for non-ECC memory < 1249070693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and calculate how long it should take to flip a bit in this file < 1249070696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's memory, not hard disk as in the comic < 1249070697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wait that long < 1249070707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just map the portion of ram to disk, duh < 1249070708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have to be repeatedly loading files into memory, then writing them back out < 1249070711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, automatically persisted < 1249070726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I hate programs having more than one simple easter egg < 1249070782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) they're amusing perhaps once (b) they are the most flagrant violation of the understanding that features have a cost possible (c) it takes time that could be spent doing better things and (d) referencing everything xkcd says is not funny < 1249070813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but if people are kind enough to write and submit the easter egg, why not commit it < 1249070824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IIRC INTERCAL is nothing /but/ easter eggs < 1249070835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i hate? when someone tries to rebut a whole line by trying to rebut one part of it < 1249070837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignoring the others < 1249070856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It was added in misc.el, which isn't loaded by default. < 1249070863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1249070868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I'm just rebutting some of the points, a rebuttal for all of them would take quite a while and probably not fit in 510 characters < 1249070883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your rebuttal was rebutted by one of my original points < 1249070886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was utterly useless < 1249070889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) seems to be irrelevant, as there's more than one xkcd comic in existence < 1249070906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having more interesting features motivates more people to help maintain them < 1249070926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've lost count how many times i've had this discussion, fuck it < 1249070947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm just going to say that Emacs is the posterchild for bloat and leave it at that. < 1249070961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes deeper than that, but yes, i despise emacs < 1249071403 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249071414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os < 1249071436 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it would be possible to use gps along with some accelerometers to calculate position to a few centimeters? < 1249071456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a very precise gps and very good accelerometers, yes :P < 1249071461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: augmented reality stuff? < 1249071469 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1249071517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: there's an iphone app for iirc the toronto train station thingy that overlays where to go for stations on top of the camera feed; i think it works on all iphones so i guess it works with camera + accelerometer; if not then that + gps < 1249071520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly uses the camera image < 1249071526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the video i saw was quite good < 1249071549 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone can't have that good accelerometers in it < 1249071552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1249071557 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar is hard < 1249071567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has one < 1249071570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fairly regular < 1249071578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably relies a lot on the camera but it was very good < 1249071590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how it works, really < 1249071604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the compass thingy, i think the iphone 3g s has one < 1249071635 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not going to be very helpful < 1249071667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i really don't know; but it did it really well < 1249071678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overlayed it perfectly and you could tilt it and it updated in less than a second < 1249071691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's obviously possible with just a few tools < 1249071921 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much good accelerometers cots < 1249071942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a bad accelerometer with a weight, a potentiometer, and a pair of springs < 1249071952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the good ones work on the same principle, but more accurately < 1249072155 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a gyro be helpful at all in addition with accelerometers < 1249072156 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249072209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gyro determines orientation, accelerometers determine movement < 1249072218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: No, but it may be delicious. < 1249072225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249072228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try to dead-reckon orientation from movement, but you'll probably mess up < 1249072234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a gyro helps < 1249072293 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with a single gyro and a 1-access accelerometer you can dead reckon 2d position < 1249072314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you'd need to accelerometers < 1249072322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2 accelerometers < 1249072325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accelerometers < 1249072334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1249072336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249072338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying "ehird jump" < 1249072342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accelerometerses < 1249072342 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... what the heck is Gorm and why do I have it installed on my computer? < 1249072344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the setup you mentioned couldn't detect the device being moved sideways wrt the accelerometer < 1249072357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNUstep Developer Tools - Gorm < 1249072357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gorm stands for "Graphical Object Relationship Modeller" and is GNUstep's easy- to-use interface designer. In the following sections you will learn more ... < 1249072358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1249072364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grails - GORM < 1249072365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GORM is Grails' object relational mapping (ORM) implementation. Under the hood it uses Hibernate 3 (an extremely popular and flexible open source ORM ... < 1249072368 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1249072379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have two accelerometers you dont' need a gyro < 1249072383 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be GNUStep. but still doesn't answer, why the hell do I have it here >_< < 1249072388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do, in case the device is rotated < 1249072393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: you installed gnustep development tools? < 1249072410 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. that might be it. but this.. clunky GUI thing... really? < 1249072413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a third accelerometer to try to detect rotations, but a gyro works better for that < 1249072422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the record I haven't read the discussion: the single accelero in the iphone can detect tilts and spinning < 1249072423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249072433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tilt it forwards and backwards, and change its orientation < 1249072453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's going to be what's effectively multiple accelerometers in one package, possibly using just the one weight < 1249072456 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right < 1249072464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm really? < 1249072466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it's equivalent to several accelerometers, but possibly just in one package < 1249072480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with components in common < 1249072486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/7/4/Apple_iPhone_4.jpg < 1249072486 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3 accelerometers are good for 3 dimensions right? < 1249072494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have a gyro < 1249072496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, assuming you know your orientation < 1249072500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dead-reckoning, then < 1249072507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ehwot? < 1249072512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have to know your orientation? < 1249072522 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1249072523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: accelerometers can't figure out orientations, but they can figure out rotations, and deduce the orientation from that < 1249072531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249072548 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1249072549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd need to be very accurate to prevent errors accumulating, though < 1249072549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that might be why sometimes my iphone is in one position but thinks it's the other, and flipping the other way and back again fixes it < 1249072574 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with 4 coplaner but not coliner accelerometers, you don't need a gyro, right? < 1249072673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, assuming that the lines they measure don't have a common point either < 1249072684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, if they're all coplanar, you can't measure the third dimension at all < 1249072704 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1249072708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetry < 1249072716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or you don't realise what "coplanar" means < 1249072791 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sitting in the same aisle in a flight to california? < 1249072797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, if all the accelerometers are in the same plane, and pointing along it, they can't distinguish up from down < 1249072819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evenant: bad puns are oerjan's job < 1249072822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he isn't here, so I'll forgive you < 1249072845 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249073352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249073523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy australian mailman reminders day, everyone! < 1249073532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck! < 1249073538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means i'm 14 in 23 days… < 1249073553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does the time go, i say < 1249073555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off my lawn < 1249073594 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 days, eh? < 1249073599 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 17 in 6 days < 1249073647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 → 17 is meh. < 1249073654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249073665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I likely won't be saying that when I'm 16.) < 1249073676 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well it is quite meh < 1249073691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((If I haven't died from all the COPIOUS ALCOHOL, DRUGS AND ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC that all the teenagers so vigourously consume.)) < 1249073713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since MUSIC is so deadly, right? < 1249073754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yes. < 1249073815 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249074580 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 is a decent birthday < 1249074711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb coppro < 1249074721 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1249074724 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:11:39] w00t, that new snapshot has tunable tab bar width < 1249074732 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's worth checking out the new Opera snapshot < 1249074746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CESSMASTER: but not as good as 420 amirite < 1249074759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALAS SCIENCE CANNOT YET ACHIEVE THIS < 1249074874 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being 420 years old would fucking suck what's the matter with you < 1249074939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't shoot the messenger man < 1249074957 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249075135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/31/office_for_mac_service_pack_woes/ < 1249075613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exactly when in August, however, is not mentioned." -- probably Patch Tuesday as usual < 1249075734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Rock and roll þou ſayeſt < 1249075735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249075744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249075763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ſtarts ſome of þis "rock" and "roll". < 1249075907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION farts some of his rock and roll < 1249075934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, aren't you just the soul of wit? < 1249077011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249077103 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 16 -> 17 is meh, also back then when I was 16 -> 17 < 1249077512 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, I'd rather have it 16 -> 15; one more year of not having to work and stuff < 1249077528 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course going 0 -> -1 wouldn't really be nice < 1249077545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither would 0 -> 255 (or similar) if the age is unsigned < 1249077747 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249077769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 255->0 would be an improvement on that. < 1249077784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still suck, though. < 1249077790 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1249077821 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would prefer to stay 20, forever < 1249077832 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is some gameshark cheat for that < 1249077919 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just freeze the value your age pointer points to < 1249077937 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you prolly don't have access to that, need to be root < 1249077963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20-something is a good age, methinks. < 1249078013 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You can discuss anything except weird programming languages, which is strictly forbidden. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249078019 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ur, whoops < 1249078030 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, just removed an unnecessary space < 1249078249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You can discuss anything except weird programming languages, which is srictly forbidden. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249078255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION introduces a typo into the topic < 1249078319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is" should be "are" anyway < 1249078330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone explain this (apart from "he's bullshitting")? http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/969sy/your_ip_ip_address_has_been_logged_your_isp_wrong/c0bkohn < 1249078343 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you save us one byte of transfer on join < 1249078352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at the sentence-like structure in that URL < 1249078355 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing to are would of course nullify that effect < 1249078360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your IP IP address has been logged your ISP wrong"/ < 1249078364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Post title slug. < 1249078371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A load of blogs make URLs out of the post title, too. < 1249078379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a comment on it < 1249078381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249078422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that he has two computers < 1249078432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that falls under "he's bullshitting" < 1249078434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of which he's successfully connected to 127.0.0.1 on and thinks it's internet-connected < 1249078439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other of which he's using to comment on reddit < 1249078439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while that is quite likely, it's also pointless < 1249078446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249078450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking for a technical explanation < 1249078452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's being confused and deluded, rather than bullshit < 1249078467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't even know how I'm on the interwebs." < 1249078471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that implies being on that computer < 1249078477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is theoretically possible to be internet-connected without a connection other than the mains cable < 1249078479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This thing is so old that it doesn't have an internal wireless adapter, and I'm not using any cables either. Maybe the interweb courses through my veins?" < 1249078482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This thing" < 1249078493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :networking through mains cables - which are still giving power at the same time - has been a solved problem for a while < 1249078498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any motive to lie and he seems pretty straight about it, but… < 1249078504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how it could happen. < 1249078511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that it actually DOES do wireless. < 1249078511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it never really caught on, and I think there were regulatory problems < 1249078523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "This thing" doesn't necessarily mean "the computer I'm using" < 1249078541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was it, networking via mains cable blocked short-wave radio as a weird side-effect < 1249078543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I say it one more time? I'm not asking for explanations that involve him deliberately using misleading language to fuck with us < 1249078545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249078558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm saying, it may be accidentally misleading < 1249078582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So you're suggesting this guy, after trying to connect to the internet loads and loads of times, never tried to open a site? < 1249078584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bullshit. < 1249078624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my assumption is that he thinks he's connected, but that the web isn't working < 1249078630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's obviously technical enough to know some things, but not others < 1249078638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess is, he thinks that if he can ping anything, he's connected < 1249078645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's something elsewhere that isn't working if he can't visit websites < 1249078656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249078660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249078701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY tries repeatedly to get the internet working on a computer, pings sites multiple times ("my pings come back 100%") and doesn't try to load anything. < 1249078701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plus: < 1249078701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and, well, here I am." < 1249078713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he's definitely saying the internet works on _that machine_. < 1249078738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's a laptop with an unsecured wireless connection near it, it may have connected to the connection automatically < 1249078755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's plugged in for power" < 1249078762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't the kind of thing someone with a laptop would say < 1249078766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I normally run my laptop plugged in < 1249078769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but < 1249078770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the battery life here is about 20 minutes < 1249078773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not REQUIRED < 1249078780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he was obviously listing the needed cables < 1249078780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for me it effectively is required < 1249078788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway < 1249078791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old < 1249078796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thinks it's so old it doesn't do wireless < 1249078797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo < 1249078801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go with "not a laptop" < 1249078812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it'd be a pentium, 5kg dealie < 1249078835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktops didn't commonly do wireless ever < 1249078845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249078871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need to call bullshit on things more often, otherwise I'll just get confused < 1249079001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Twitkitteh is, quite simply, the first Twitter application written specifically for cats." < 1249079016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("We at TLA Systems are pleased to announce that with Apple’s new App Store policy changes now in effect, Twitkitteh will very soon be the only iPhone Twitter client available to the under-17 market.") < 1249079021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's in cat years or not. < 1249079832 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, encode cat pictures in 140 bytes for twitter. Fun. < 1249079850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember that compression thingy < 1249079866 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is a programming language that parses 140 bytes and spits out pictures of cats. < 1249079877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leonidas: they have that < 1249079879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called twitter < 1249079904 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep, but I want actual images, not bit.ly urls < 1249079911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1249079939 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C======a=============================t would produce the picture of langcat < 1249079968 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*longcat < 1249079979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should make langcats < 1249079983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're cats that represent eso-langs < 1249080028 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1249080102 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ehird: so this is the langcat for "Chef" http://bit.ly/5pbwi < 1249080172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1249080605 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249080818 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249081192 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249082087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…cmeme?! < 1249082103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has cmeme been in here all this time? < 1249082107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it died with ircbrowse.com < 1249082112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not that I remember < 1249082120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ircbrowse.com are logging us again < 1249082125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's still down < 1249082143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1249082145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it has been here < 1249082185 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is cmeme in any way related to clog, except for both being bots associated with loggin, beginning on the same character? < 1249082189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/on/with/ < 1249082198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're different organisations entirely < 1249082223 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'kay < 1249082227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249082232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a simplification < 1249082236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a so-called "pretty" view of these logs, go to http://tunes.org/~coreyr/. < 1249082237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For even "prettier" (css'd, searchable, customizable, etc) logs, go to http://meme.b9.com. < 1249082237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meme also provides virtual clog apache directories at http://meme.b9.com/clog/. < 1249082253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it WAS clog at one point < 1249082255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then changed over to cmeme < 1249082256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, the people who run (ran?) clog know that cmeme exist < 1249082261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono < 1249082265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meme used to be an interface to clog logs < 1249082269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they started using cmeme instead < 1249082285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? from that, all that it seems to imply is that meme started doing the same thing, and tunes linked to them < 1249082299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These logs are purposely "raw" and are intended to be parsed/reformated/wrapped before viewing. < 1249082299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyances such as horizontal window scrolling are due to the poor choice of viewer. < 1249082299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a so-called "pretty" view of these logs, go to http://tunes.org/~coreyr/. < 1249082299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For even "prettier" (css'd, searchable, customizable, etc) logs, go to http://meme.b9.com. < 1249082300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meme also provides virtual clog apache directories at http://meme.b9.com/clog/. < 1249082310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for even prettier logs" < 1249082317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather obvious in context that it's listing pretty ways to view clog logs, ais523. < 1249082319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "for an even prettier version of these logs" < 1249082323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since cmeme DOESN'T LOG THE SAME CHANNELS. < 1249082330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that line would be utterly stupid < 1249082335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, the last one, is "for cmeme's logs in clog format" < 1249082339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last would be pointless otherwise < 1249082339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you want nicer-tasting chicken, why not eat a dog?" < 1249082343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrrrrrrrrrrr < 1249082344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249082348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a remotely valid reading of it < 1249082357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Clearly, it makes logs more beautiful by making them untruthful when the truth is ugly. < 1249082358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog has no format < 1249082367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it does, it's just a plaintext dump < 1249082370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a format < 1249082373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is a bot < 1249082380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it outputs in a particular format < 1249082477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meme also provides virtual clog apache directories at http://meme.b9.com/clog/." ;; if anything, this is a meme interface to clog logs < 1249082489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am 100% sure it does not mean "here is the previous line in raw format" < 1249082494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's *not what it says at all* < 1249082541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "virtual clog" would be something that worked the same way as clog, whilst not being clog < 1249082548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :……………………… < 1249082551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "virtual _ apache directories" < 1249082554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual directories in apache < 1249082555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "meme also do the same thing as us, as well as providing pretty logs" < 1249082557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not real files < 1249082558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on man < 1249082560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be an idiot < 1249082605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the Wayback Machine doesn't have the content that used to be there < 1249082630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone link to an alternate name for the same thing? a different logbot with the same output format is useful, though < 1249082654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, you're depressing me that a seemingly sane person could possibly mangle the interpretation of the english language in such a way < 1249082663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you're disregarding the sentence and substituting a meaning < 1249082695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: English is a total slut. < 1249082712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you did WHAT with that chicken? < 1249082734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it is bending down to fellate ais523 right now doesn't change that it will do anything for anyone. < 1249082737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249082758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can't see any legitimate interpretation of your reading at all < 1249082765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there suggests that the two are the same thing < 1249082779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here are our logs; here are some other logs" < 1249082796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE CLOG IS A BOT AND NOTHING ELSE! < 1249082813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not make sense to provide a virtual directory of clog unless it's the logs logged by that bot < 1249082828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not say "virtual directory of clog" < 1249082835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "virtual clog apache directories" < 1249082856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and because I know what a virtual directory in apache is, I can reword it in a valid way to try and make it clearer to you < 1249082869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else do you want me to try and tell you you're wrong? repeating the sentence verbatim over and over? < 1249082957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't check who was right until we find the content on the site, and/or ask the maintainers < 1249082971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there's a far more pressing issue here: given that ircbrowse.com is down, who on earth is cmeme logging for? < 1249082994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/null < 1249083011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please tell me i'm not hallucinating and that ais523's interpretation IS crazy < 1249083034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: logging for /dev/null would be ridiculous, nobody would waste server resources on that < 1249083035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure what the hell the point of this is. < 1249083044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there was that process on normish which pinged yahoo for an entire month < 1249083046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was a mistake < 1249083054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's down due to the server being unmaintained, duh < 1249083059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old meme redirects to ircbrowse < 1249083063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the guy's blog was last updated in '07 < 1249083068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tunes.org is also unmaintained < 1249083074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faré just breaks the server every now and then < 1249083080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if clog has a bug and breaks, it would not be fixed < 1249083099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the original coder doesn't maintain it any more. < 1249083599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/machten/ The mind boggles. < 1249083857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, sweet < 1249083867 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249083878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, my user-mode posix would do that < 1249083881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a bug causing breakage seems unlikely < 1249083881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being ported to every OS ever < 1249083883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the apple ii < 1249083897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:44] ais523: ehird: a bug causing breakage seems unlikely ← I'm hanging this up on the wall < 1249083897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would more likely be a sysadmin problem, like out of disk space or overflowing log files < 1249083904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249083910 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249083911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ups. < 1249083913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usermode POSIX would be pretty sweet. < 1249083922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Totally. < 1249083943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix ./usermode_posix sh < 1249083949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those days when you want to take it slow. < 1249083955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, clog's been going so long that it seems much more likely that it would break for config reasons than for code reasons < 1249083976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I was just pointing out that leaving a server doing shit unmaintainedly is not unheard of. < 1249084000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I assume that it would be designed like Linux from Scratch, to show itself as a single process and do all task-switching itself? < 1249084010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, for portability < 1249084025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1249084028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does POSIX mandate elf? < 1249084036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it in perfectly portable C, if you can < 1249084038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249084050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF is a seperate standard. < 1249084054 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://216.14.122.182/images/28259tmp9.png <-- < 1249084058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no such thing < 1249084060 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_too_ minimalistic for me < 1249084067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: *minimal < 1249084072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT IRONIC IT IS CRINGEWORTHY. < 1249084085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, plug computers are fucking awesome. < 1249084086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can get pretty portable < 1249084089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I assume you meant the toolbar :P < 1249084093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with autoconf < 1249084100 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the toolbar < 1249084103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FUCK THAT < 1249084104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, write in perfect theoretically portable C89 < 1249084106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm never using autoconf, ever < 1249084107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1249084110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to run this on an apple ii man < 1249084114 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, I'm thinking of getting a sheevaplug < 1249084114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64, even < 1249084124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPhone! < 1249084128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything, pretty much. < 1249084129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Then you are in for a world of pain. < 1249084129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C-INTERCAL doesn't run on a C64, I consider that a bug, although a low-priority one < 1249084141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Call me when autoconf supports the ↑↑↑ < 1249084142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portability is a royal bitch. < 1249084149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autoconf is merely a *lesser* bitch. < 1249084153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm basically going to abstract all the low-level stuff. < 1249084158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't use the host filesystem or anything < 1249084162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64? Only with cross-compiling, but sure. < 1249084176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll require writing tons of code for every platform anyway < 1249084187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm never going to use auto*, ever, so don't even bother < 1249084189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone? Sure; just install Terminal.app on it. < 1249084204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a royal assload of pain right there, ehird. < 1249084220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it against apple's terms of service to put an open-source program onto the iphone? < 1249084223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249084235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:49] pikhq: The iPhone? Sure; just install Terminal.app on it. < 1249084235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ please stop talking < 1249084238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no idea what you're talking about < 1249084242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal.app from os x will not run on the iphone < 1249084243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1249084268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I bet there's some way, but it probably involves a lot of jailbreaking and hackery and is harder than just reimplementing < 1249084275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, possibly, porting os x to os x < 1249084275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249084278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have the libraries < 1249084282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so add them < 1249084282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different architecture < 1249084283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1249084288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a lot of work < 1249084294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god just shut the fuck up < 1249084296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE < 1249084298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I made the comment about porting os x to itself < 1249084298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST EDIT THE UNIVERSE < 1249084304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWIDDLE WITH THE LAWS OF PHYSICS A BIT < 1249084310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's along the same lines as < 1249084314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURR NO LANGUAGE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHERW < 1249084314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x butterfly < 1249084315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY? < 1249084317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE TURING!!!!! < 1249084329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wish people would stop making such trivial, insipid, useless arguments based on suc hthings < 1249084340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but you can at least expect people to be slightly pedantic here < 1249084343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, this is #esoteric < 1249084356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There is *a* Terminal.app for the iPhone. < 1249084365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves a lot of jailbreaking and hackery. < 1249084365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it called Terminal.app? < 1249084368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else? < 1249084370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Genericword.app means the OS X version. < 1249084375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mail.app, Terminal.app, etc. < 1249084376 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're currently breaking the Golden Rule of the Topic™ < 1249084380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile*.app means a default iPhone app. < 1249084383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MobileSafari.app, etc. < 1249084390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: a rule forcing offtopicness is stupid < 1249084394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ain't a default, it's a hack. < 1249084397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're stupid. :P < 1249084403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else wrote it and called it Terminal.app. < 1249084403 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ontopic < 1249084405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're not reading what I said. < 1249084408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Please only change one word at a time in this topic. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249084409 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, ah < 1249084413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something called Terminal.app. < 1249084414 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It said except < 1249084421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Terminal.app" is not a valid way to refer to it in general. < 1249084421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ITS NOT MY FAULT, SOMEONE ELSE NAMED IT THAT. < 1249084428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that means /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app. < 1249084449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS A NAMESPACE COLLISION HERE, NOT A MISUNDERSTANDING, YOU DUMBTARD. < 1249084451 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249084459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :dear_my_inner_ra < 1249084461 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—pist < 1249084468 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I look forward to you referring to me in this way. < 1249084476 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares, after all, about ambiguity? < 1249084484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's easy enough to just use your usual nick < 1249084508 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nighty < 1249084509 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's easy enough to say "an iPhone terminal app" instead of Terminal.app because the latter is used to mean the OS X default terminal, too. < 1249084517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249084521 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently pikhq is bound to referring things only in the ways that their creators do. < 1249084527 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249084531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, how do you refer to the Plan 9 version of vi < 1249084539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the name is already taken? < 1249084540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure of your point, and can only conclude that you like to be an idiot. < 1249084543 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's vi, or if you're in #plan9, vi(1). < 1249084559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had a stupid idea < 1249084560 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sorry, next time I'll use diagrams instead of English. < 1249084565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porting programs to other man chapters < 1249084566 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not uncommon. < 1249084573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. we already have vim(1) as an editor < 1249084574 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay < 1249084577 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas that bad are uncommon < 1249084578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear_my_inner_ra: You're a retard. < 1249084584 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SHUT UP UR A FAG LOL < 1249084588 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REEEETARD < 1249084592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could have vim(8) designed to edit root-owned files < 1249084593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point. < 1249084597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vim(6) which wasn't entirely serious < 1249084603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vim(2) the system call < 1249084612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vim(n) the Tcl function. < 1249084621 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim(vim) < 1249084625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if vim(3perl) already exists < 1249084654 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcl and perl's manpage pollution is almost enough to get me to uninstall them < 1249084661 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas you can't really do that with perl unless you're an über-minimalist < 1249084685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... quite a lot of vim-related modules on CPAN, but none are ports of vim < 1249084687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pity < 1249084709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they're accessible via the perldoc command too < 1249084720 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249084721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some way to move it so perldoc accesses them and not vim < 1249084727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, git is just as bad in terms of manpage pollution < 1249084757 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it only pollutes git-* < 1249084760 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't stumble upon that my accident < 1249084764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl only pollutes perl* < 1249084770 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1249084772 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf cpan modules < 1249084779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cpan that pollutes *::* < 1249084784 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah whatever < 1249084799 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about your separation of perl and state^Wcpan, because nobody else does