00:00:04 ehird, it does have a notion of "tasks". 00:00:12 well yeah but those are uber-vague 00:00:26 ehird, it doesn't know the difference between processes and threads though 00:00:47 And it doesn't have a fucking *clue* about doing that on multiple processors. 00:01:00 SMP is... A hack. 00:01:04 they are the same on linux at least. just fork() but instead of COW it is shared on write 00:01:08 pikhq, yep 00:01:22 the OS needs to handle scheduling across different CPUs 00:01:23 Of course, x86 is a series of hacks. So. 00:01:28 processes are stupid 00:01:49 they're the single worst example of the hardware/kernel details being exposed to the top-level 00:02:02 oh and dual core is funnier 00:02:11 short quotation from intel docs showing this: 00:02:33 "Some bit fields in IA32_MISC_ENABLE MSR (MSR address 1A0H) may be shared between two logical processors sharing a processor core, or may be shared between different cores in a physical processor. See Appendix B, “Model-Specific Registers (MSRs)”." 00:02:51 ah yes MSRs... 00:02:51 dual-core? don't you mean N-core 00:02:55 ehird, well yes 00:02:57 well "multi core" 00:03:05 i thought you meant some weird 2-core specificness 00:03:18 sorry I was vague 00:03:27 ehird, you need to sync MTRRs between cpus btw 00:03:30 not sure about cores 00:03:51 ehird: I said "true pedants" not "pedants" 00:03:58 AnMaster: please, can't you stop talking about this? it's making me want to get a heap of cash, buy a Symbolics and lock myself in a cave 00:03:59 not properly syncing them caused some semi-(in)famous bug in linux years ago. 00:04:04 coppro: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHetc 00:04:23 ehird, :D 00:04:39 WITHOUT EVEN AN ETHERNET CABLE 00:04:51 ehird, so lets skip hyperthreading then ;P 00:04:56 (hint: it is even worse) 00:05:00 the cpu can handle hyperthreading. 00:05:05 i doooooon't want to think about that 00:05:05 ehird, the OS must 00:05:09 what why 00:05:12 can't i just pretend it's a core. 00:05:24 ehird, nop. Not on the basic level 00:05:28 i mean hyperthreading worked in windows before the pentium 4 afaik 00:05:31 it looks quite different 00:05:32 like in the test samples. 00:05:47 i guess it would bloat the silicon to handle the scheduling but urgh 00:05:56 ehird, pretty sure the shipped some driver then that enabled it then 00:06:03 ah 00:06:14 so step one become the most-used OS in the world 00:06:15 Okay. I'm vomiting. 00:06:15 ehird, or maybe the interface was different back then 00:06:18 step two make intel my bitch and do it for me 00:06:23 pikhq, about? 00:06:25 pikhq: try not to 00:06:27 pikhq, hyperthreading? 00:06:33 That is such an *awful* design. 00:06:34 AnMaster: All of x86. 00:06:35 if so I agree 00:06:38 ALL OF IT. 00:06:45 the result of hyperthreading is cool! 00:07:22 ehird: I do believe that CPUs themselves need to be more abstract. A Brainfuck machine with peripherals memory-mapped? 00:07:29 ehird, you don't want to know how debuggers work 00:07:33 pikhq: graph reducer, bitch 00:07:34 that bit makes me want to vomit 00:07:47 AnMaster: Why, they hook in to the VM in question, of course. 00:07:48 hardware breakpoints *eugh* 00:07:56 ehird, I meant, traditional debuggers 00:07:59 If you're running a legacy native code program, you hook into the emulator! 00:08:03 AnMaster: LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU 00:08:08 ehird: A graph reducer? That would be awesome. 00:08:10 FLUFFY UNICORNS LA LA LA 00:08:11 pikhq: it exists! 00:08:23 ehird: A HASKELL MACHINE! 00:08:24 :P 00:08:30 pikhq: That's what a graph reducer is! 00:08:33 sounds awesome 00:08:35 YES! 00:08:41 sec 00:08:43 i'll link you 00:09:09 ehird, I assume you know about CPUID btw? 00:09:13 http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/ 00:09:16 the think on x86 to check what the CPU supports 00:09:19 fairly good idea 00:09:38 AnMaster: i'm not targeting anything below, say, core 2 00:09:49 I'd support Atom if it did 64 bit 00:10:14 however, first you must check CPUID exists. Since it didn't on 386. Thus you must first test if you can write to a specific register. If you can't bail out with "augh this is a 386. don't even try to run me" 00:10:18 but I really have better things to do than cater to people with ancient CPUs 00:10:34 ehird, just showing how horrible x86 is ^ 00:10:41 yes, I know 00:10:49 that's why I'm not thinking about anything older than a few years 00:10:52 ehird, btw to run 64-bit you need to set up page table first 00:10:56 It's a bloody Haskell machine! 00:10:59 at least modern x86_64 cpus are basically intercompatible 00:11:05 pikhq: Yes, the Reduceron is. 00:11:07 ehird: Currently-produced Atom chips are 64-bit. 00:11:11 they are? 00:11:13 I might support them. 00:11:17 ehird, as in. you need paging enabled to enter long mode (long mode = official name for 64-bit mode) 00:11:22 AnMaster: Yeah, I know. 00:11:34 I'll probably set up a ridiculous paging scheme that lets me abuse it for nefarious purposes. 00:11:49 But the first thing my OS will do is do what it needs to do to enter long mode and then do i. 00:11:51 *it 00:11:53 ehird, to begin with just creating a page for the entire memory might be sane 00:11:56 Bye bye, legacy cruft. 00:12:03 AnMaster: To begin with? Why, LoseThos never gives up that notion! 00:12:12 :D 00:12:22 ehird, the "enter long mode" bit is probably best coded in asm. For your own sanity I mean 00:12:29 Of course 00:12:34 As well as the Forth implementation 00:12:42 No GRUB, too. 00:12:46 Writing my own bootloader. 00:12:52 Why? Because GRUB's written in C. :P 00:12:58 Also, uses ELF. 00:13:06 ehird, I would suggest forth begins directly/shortly after you entered long mode 00:13:12 yes 00:13:13 All that using GRUB gets you is entering protected mode. 00:13:25 Which is *annoying*, but not too hard to write. 00:13:26 pikhq, which is quite nice though 00:13:45 entering long mode is worse than entering protected mode 00:13:52 Yeah. 00:14:00 bootloader → long mode → forth → basic hardware setup → smalltalk vm → rest of hardware → full bootup procedure (unless it's the first time, this consists basically of restoring the last state) → done! 00:14:13 ehird, btw, another issue. In long mode you need all drivers. 00:14:14 as in 00:14:18 Protected mode is just a few frobs to the keyboard controller and a ocuple register. 00:14:21 you can't enter the 16 bit mode thingy 00:14:24 to call the BIOS 00:14:26 Erm. Couple registers. 00:14:37 AnMaster: What? You can't use the BIOS in long mode? 00:14:46 Just making sure I'm understanding you right 00:15:21 SILENCE 00:15:24 ehird, basically you can't use the BIOS interrupts to handle stuff like basic hardware for you (PATA/SATA controller for example) before you written a driver 00:15:28 when in long mode 00:15:40 Does the driver stay in 16-bit mode or something? 00:15:56 If not, I suppose existing 64-bit OSs just DIY it? 00:15:57 ehird, do you know about vm86? 00:15:58 If so, then I will. 00:16:02 AnMaster: no 00:16:17 looks putrid 00:16:20 virtual 8086 mode 00:16:25 used to call the bios 00:16:31 and other stuff 00:16:33 anyway, does the BIOS really do all that much for you? 00:16:47 I imagine what with incompatibilities and the like, it wouldn't be too hard to avoid using it 00:16:56 ehird, it provides slow access to hardware until you have your own drivers up and running 00:16:58 (incompatibilities i.e. you can't rely on stuff that differs between BIOSes) 00:17:06 *BIOSs 00:17:13 AnMaster: eh 00:17:23 that's useful for... accessing the harddrive, and not much else 00:17:25 like, before you handle the VESA bit yourself you can use interrupts to make the BIOS do it. 00:17:29 how hard can it be to use SATA? 00:17:34 AnMaster: don't need VESA 00:17:44 until boot 00:17:51 ehird, well VGA then. Before you have anything up however... 00:17:59 don't need VGA 00:18:30 AnMaster, there's no sense in using BIOS interrupts for doing VGA. 00:18:50 ehird, anyway my point is that until you developed your own drivers for stuff like harddrive, video, keyboard/mouse (usb emulation is provided by bios), going into long mode == bad idea 00:18:51 There's no fancy bootup process; you turn it on, the screen sits there for a few seconds and then it turns graphical and your objects appear how you left them 00:18:58 so I don't really need those things 00:19:07 AnMaster: the drivers are written in forth and smalltalk 00:19:08 sooo 00:19:11 no :P 00:19:17 It takes less code to talk to the VGA card manually then it does to thunk to the BIOS... 00:19:20 ehird, yes. But I bet you won't have them ready right away 00:19:55 AnMaster: consider that the entire number of times it interacts with the user until the smalltalk VM is up and running is zero 00:19:58 no input, no output 00:20:01 pikhq, well iirc the first few lines are traditionally done by thunk to BIOS. Like when grub is printing "Loading stage 1.5" 00:20:21 AnMaster: Still no point in it. 00:20:21 uh no 00:20:27 when i was writing my os and printing out lines to the screen 00:20:31 it's just B80000 or something 00:20:38 and you just write to it at y*80+x or something 00:20:39 trivial 00:20:45 Yeah, that's the address of the framebuffer. 00:20:47 line wrapping, a few lines 00:20:50 scrolling, about ten 00:21:06 It's a tiny bit more complicated to actually have non-textual graphics, but even that's not hard. 00:21:14 Writing a couple of things to the VGA registers. 00:21:27 ehird, hm, maybe I misremember that bit then. Still you need to do it for harddisk 00:21:49 ... Yeah, that's called "a bootloader". 00:21:53 pikhq, indeed 00:21:55 how hard can talking to sata be 00:22:10 ehird: Harder than an interrupt. :P 00:22:12 ehird, that I have no clue about. But pretty hard I bet 00:22:18 what with DMA and such 00:22:39 only the most simple HD access is needed until smalltalk is running and loads the full HD driver 00:22:42 which is why you need memory management up 00:22:57 really, every time a system managed to boot we show be overawed. 00:22:59 seriously 00:22:59 AnMaster: DMA is optional. 00:23:01 i need to write memory management as part of the forth 00:23:03 so s'ok 00:23:08 we are used to it working 00:23:15 but it is quite a feat when you think about it 00:23:29 careful! thinking like that turns you into thom yorke. 00:23:36 "thom yorke"? 00:23:39 xD 00:23:44 who/what 00:23:53 famous painter 00:23:55 18th century 00:24:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke <-- wikipedia fails then 00:24:24 never heard of that guy 00:24:29 must be named after him or sth 00:24:40 no disambig link 00:24:48 well he wasn't exactly famous i just like him 00:25:16 ehird, ok. explain that reference though please 00:25:22 as in, what did he paint 00:25:24 or such 00:25:34 that makes me similar to him when thinking that above 00:25:42 it's a reference to his painting Rocks Crushed Over the Sky At Five O'Clock 00:25:55 nice name. 00:26:09 quite 00:26:19 google doesn't turn up anything relevant 00:26:37 just music 00:26:41 :\ 00:26:42 weird 00:27:07 ehird, btw your boot loader. It has to fit in a *tiny* space 00:27:34 no it doesn't 00:27:37 here's my bootloader 00:27:43 jmp ptr 00:27:54 ehird, you need to load something to jump to 00:28:11 so? 00:28:18 that is a bit more :P 00:28:26 asking sata for a KB or so of code 00:28:26 AnMaster: ... Boot loaders are trivial. 00:28:31 pikhq, true 00:28:32 sounds awfully hard! 00:28:35 i could even use the bios. 00:28:37 Seriously, shaddup. 00:28:48 pikhq, I didn't say they were hard 00:28:53 was just trying to scare ehird :P 00:28:56 Especially since you've got a whole block to work with and BIOS interrupts. 00:29:01 And bootloaders don't do much. 00:29:10 and IMO MBR is awful. 00:29:12 i wrote a hello world os in assembly including bootloader following a nice little tutorial thing once 00:29:14 It's a loop that reads a few blocks in and jumps. 00:29:18 didn't understand a lot of the operations but 00:29:21 I've played tic-tac-toe in a bootloader 00:29:24 it was rather trivial 00:29:26 really I want a sane system like PPC+Open Firmware 00:29:27 like a few hundred lines. 00:29:35 AnMaster: whoa whoa don't call that sane, it's just better 00:29:39 ARM + OpenFirmware, even closer 00:29:41 ehird, well true 00:29:48 but until we enter lisp machine territory, we're not sane 00:29:51 PPC is quite nice though 00:29:53 we're just more creatively deranged 00:29:54 ehird: Reduceron? 00:29:55 lots of registers 00:30:02 AnMaster: ARM gives you a free shift in every instruction. 00:30:04 EVERY INSTRUCTION. 00:30:07 I rest my case. ARM is cool. 00:30:15 Also, low heat and low poewr. 00:30:16 power 00:30:27 power requirements, that is 00:30:30 ehird, shift? as in some flag to shift the value by n? 00:30:38 basically. 00:30:52 you can append ; right/leftshift foo to every instruction 00:31:03 without performance penalty 00:31:03 more or less 00:31:13 how often is that useful I wonder 00:31:32 in embedded work? tons! 00:31:33 who cares though 00:31:34 it's cool 00:31:42 fair enough 00:31:59 Anyway, everyone knows the only real sane platform is Itanium/EFI. 00:32:01 -!- ehird has changed nick to crickets. 00:32:03 * crickets chirp 00:32:06 -!- crickets has changed nick to ehird. 00:32:26 Even I hate EFI! 00:32:39 don't know enough about EFI 00:32:47 but Itanium is a cool concept 00:32:49 It's a bloated OS that replaces your BIOS/OpenFirmware. 00:33:00 lol, SGI's Altix 4000 server could have up to 2048 CPUs 00:33:12 i guess someone hacked in one more and had to wait on xkcd's linux patch. 00:33:16 ehird, linux supports up to 4096 iirc? 00:33:26 i'm fairly sure xkcd just made that up 00:33:43 ehird, fairly sure it does support 4096 ones (at least) 00:33:55 cool how it's limited 00:33:59 whereby cool i mean stupid 00:34:11 ehird, "at least" means "maybe not limited" 00:34:15 it used to be limited 00:34:24 in MYYYYYYYYY os, everything like that is a bignum 00:34:31 INCLUDING THE DATETIME CLASS 00:36:22 . 00:41:05 ehird: Everything? 00:41:12 * pikhq is curious how you write lambdas as a bignum 00:41:13 :P 00:41:22 EVERYTHING INTEGERIC 00:41:39 (integeric, adj. When you start to write numeric but realise integral would be better, and want to have some fun.) 00:42:15 hm 00:42:42 ehird: So, in other words: Integral a has one instance: Bignum. 00:42:53 No, not in the low level Forth. :P 00:43:01 ...and not when conversing with hardware. 00:43:13 Well, of course. 00:43:26 That's because hardware's a bitch, and Forth's low-level. 00:43:55 oooh talking with x86 is fun 00:44:03 NO 00:44:06 It is never fun. 00:44:09 you just don't want to know how some structures are packed 00:44:18 pikhq: Forth is so funly low-level. 00:44:32 Have a string on the stack and want to shuffle it? HOPE YOU REMEMBER THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE ELEMENTS IN ONE 00:44:35 God, the pointer in the GDT. 00:45:01 Was that in 3 or 4 different parts? 00:45:23 pikhq, something like that 00:45:24 i gave up on my previous os because of the gdt 00:45:28 it just triple faulted when i set it up 00:45:31 NO MATTER WHAT ;_; 00:45:41 even when i copied it verbatim from the bkdev tutorial 00:45:53 *bkerndev 00:46:00 ehird: I was able to get it down to a single fault! 00:46:06 pikhq: then you gave up? :D 00:46:09 (... By having an interrupt handler) 00:46:13 Yeah. 00:49:27 I decided to never write an OS after seeing the GDT 00:50:29 thankfully, in my OS I only need one segment 00:50:40 set as completely free-for-all 00:51:35 ehird, Linux uses two segments iirc 00:51:39 kernel and user space 00:51:48 i know of no such thing! 00:52:08 The two segments more map to "ring 0" and "ring 3". 00:52:08 I didn't say your OS would 00:52:15 pikhq, well yes 00:52:24 OpenBSD has twice as many segments. 00:52:31 pikhq, oh why? 00:52:32 Read xor execute. ;) 00:52:39 um 00:52:44 AnMaster: It lets them emulate the NX bit. 00:52:48 ah 00:52:57 They split the memory space in half. 00:53:00 W^X, though, not R^X. 00:53:05 pikhq: what a waste of memory! 00:53:06 One side has read/write stuff. 00:53:08 -!- morenel has left (?). 00:53:12 One side has executable stuff. 00:53:15 fizzie, indeed 00:53:20 anyway all RWX ftw! 00:53:21 ehird: That's only one systems without the NX bit. 00:53:27 s/one/on/ 00:53:28 ehird, NX for the win :P 00:53:29 pikhq: still! 00:53:37 AnMaster: Totally unneeded in my OS! 00:53:52 ehird, great for protecting against bugs though 00:53:59 Howso? 00:54:05 You can't read/write to memory directly. 00:54:11 Or execute it. 00:54:13 ehird, for the forth layers 00:54:18 you will debug a lot 00:54:30 everything that helps detect bugs early == a good thing 00:54:43 You know that the Forth layer is expected to be at its most bloated and fullest, say, 10,000 lines? 00:54:48 That's after years. 00:54:56 sure. Still 00:55:03 Anyway, using NX in Forth code would... 00:55:09 Defeat the point. 00:55:12 EXECUTE etc. 00:55:14 Becaues. 00:55:16 *Because 00:55:19 Forth never executes machine code like that 00:55:24 and you can still run anything as a forth word 00:55:31 so it'd only help to catch bugs in the underlying Forth implementation 00:55:35 * AnMaster imagines a x86_128 where NX would be required 00:55:41 and said implementation will be quite short and very low-level 00:55:43 just to annoy ehird :P 00:55:46 In conclusion, NX doesn't help me at all. 00:56:50 AnMaster: How many people need to address 302231454903657293676544 petabytes, anyways? 00:57:13 * ehird looks at his Dyson sphere as a holograph. 00:57:15 pikhq, not yet indeed. I bet it will happen faster than we expect though 00:57:16 Oh... nobody. 00:57:17 brb 00:57:17 (128 is a *very* big number) 00:57:20 back 00:57:21 AnMaster: No. 00:57:28 ehird, I mean, passing 2^64 faster 00:57:39 Ah. 00:57:40 2^128 is probably quite safe due to number of atoms and so on 00:57:57 but 96 bit adressing would be really quite awkward 00:58:10 so I bet they will just jump to 2^128 00:58:17 If one petabyte took up 1 angstrom of space, the whole of 128-bit's address space would be 0.003 lightyears. 00:58:18 brb 00:58:18 better marketing-wise too 00:58:43 Thereby letting you mmap the entirety of the Universe. 00:58:47 If one petabyte took up 1 angstrom of space, the whole of 128-bit's address space would be 0.003 lightyears. <-- amazing :D 00:58:51 pikhq, cool idea 00:59:08 anyway 00:59:21 it is guaranteed future proof 00:59:36 unless we discover multiverse or something 01:00:00 ehird, you still want paging however. To handle swap and such 01:00:57 AnMaster: His entire design implies paging. 01:01:03 good 01:01:06 And having the entire hard drive mapped in memory. ;) 01:01:18 I was fearing he would go for "single page" 01:01:20 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:01:23 which is possible 01:01:26 almost 01:01:34 x86_64 supports 1 GB pages 01:01:39 But that would make it very hard to do object persistence. 01:01:44 pikhq, hm ok 01:02:17 Much, much easier to give objects their own pages that may or may not be on the disk. 01:02:34 pikhq, quite a bit of waste of space there 01:02:43 for small objects 01:02:50 and there will be lots of small objects 01:03:04 AnMaster: And? 01:03:10 hum? 01:03:15 I'm always against wasting 01:03:22 There's a bit of waste for small processes on UNIX, and there's a *lot* of small processes. 01:03:36 It is, in fact, a defining aspect. 01:03:40 pikhq, not quite as many as there would be objects 01:03:53 assuming objects are as fine graded as I understood him 01:04:13 It's about the same waste involved in having a lot of small files on the disk. 01:04:24 ... Nobody even *talks* about that waste. 01:04:33 pikhq, I worry about it 01:04:35 really 01:04:44 I considered a pool system to solve it 01:04:52 You're a freak who still has a sub-1GB drive. 01:04:56 having the disk split in two parts. "large" and "small" 01:05:05 growing from different ends 01:05:19 somewhat like the heap and stack grows from different ends 01:05:24 (traditionally) 01:06:14 pikhq, like having 4 KB blocks at one end, and 1 KB at the other end 01:09:04 -!- coppro has joined. 01:09:28 AnMaster: Freak who has a sub-1MB drive, I meant. 01:09:35 pikhq, :D 01:09:44 pikhq, 350 GB and 160 GB 01:09:45 in fact 01:09:49 also one at 20 GB 01:09:52 on my old p3 01:09:59 Then WHY THE CRAP DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT? 01:10:17 pikhq, why not 01:10:43 If you've lost more than 100MB from the waste involved in having a large amount of small files, I will buy a hat and then eat my hat! 01:11:42 bacq 01:12:03 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:12:14 pikhq, I have. By having 16 GB of sub-1KB files. 01:12:19 flightgear scenery 01:12:28 is stored in a horrible format. 01:12:44 one file with altitudes per each 0.1 degrees lat/long iirc 01:12:48 or was it 0.2? 01:12:48 AnMaster: you know what? 01:12:52 something like that 01:12:56 New drives are going to have BIGGER BLOCKS. 01:12:59 Megabyte-range. 01:13:01 >:) 01:13:10 ehird, depends on the file system 01:13:18 no no no 01:13:19 I mean drive level 01:13:41 ehird, maybe. But FS can use less 01:13:50 and that is what matters for space waste 01:14:00 Yes, but it is *absurdly* painful and inefficient to do so. 01:14:00 anyway, I'm wasting space by never deleting anything and revisioning every single change 01:14:06 and persisting generic objects 01:14:12 instead of hand-tinkered formats 01:14:21 pikhq, and megabyte sized blocks is absurd too 01:14:24 for a *nix system 01:14:24 so a big fuck-you-and-buy-a-big-drive, AnMaster :P 01:14:27 no 01:14:28 it's not absurd 01:14:33 yes 01:14:44 well not if you assume gnu userland :P 01:14:50 pikhq: so, let's talk about how AnMaster is a dinosaur 01:15:15 AnMaster: *nix filesystems with large blocks store small files in the inode, IIRC. 01:15:29 Fuck files. Fuuuuuuuuck files. 01:15:30 pikhq, /bin/ls is 108 KB. 64-bit GNU userland 01:15:35 Files are for bedwetters. 01:16:00 AnMaster: please, tell me how many files you have in /bin, /usr/bin and /etc 01:16:02 in total 01:16:16 ehird, not /usr/lib too? 01:16:18 For comparison, /bin/busybox is 976K. 01:16:22 Fine, /usr/lib too. 01:16:37 find /bin /usr/bin /etc /usr/lib | wc -l # *waits* 01:16:52 5907 here. 01:17:15 7908 here 01:17:18 Oh, find. XD 01:17:22 but /usr/share contains lots of small files too 01:17:29 * AnMaster scans it too 01:17:38 4232. 01:17:39 pikhq, what did you do btw 01:17:46 that didn't use find 01:17:49 ls | wc -l 01:17:53 ls -r? 01:17:55 AnMaster: So, if we have 1MB blocks, then your files would take up 7.9GB total (ignoring the larger files which will be rare). 01:18:02 Not -r. 01:18:13 AnMaster: So, a FORTIETH of a modern-sized drive. 01:18:18 Awful! 01:18:18 ehird, waiting for /usr/share which mostly contain small files 01:18:22 Unbearable! 01:18:23 like 2 KB icons 01:18:25 and similar 01:18:27 Including share, I get: 195622 01:18:28 locale files 01:18:36 pikhq, /usr/share still scanning here 01:18:40 all the man pages too 01:18:41 (I install documentation for everything) 01:18:42 and what not 01:18:47 AnMaster: Remember the inode thing. 01:18:47 AnMaster: Clearly you need ext4. 01:18:58 pikhq, I use that on my new laptop 01:19:01 this is on my desktop 01:19:06 *notebook 01:19:08 # find /bin /usr/bin /etc /usr/lib /usr/lib32 /usr/share | wc -l 01:19:08 154035 01:19:14 ehird, um? 01:19:26 I don't install docs for everything 01:19:34 [01:15] pikhq: AnMaster: *nix filesystems with large blocks store small files in the inode, IIRC. 01:19:45 ehird, ... no I meant 01:19:48 *notebook 01:19:51 ehird, um? 01:19:55 Yeah. They're not laptops any more. 01:19:59 ehird, no? 01:20:06 No. 01:20:06 well 01:20:12 I don't use them on my lap 01:20:19 due to well known risks 01:20:21 Hmm, seems Lenovo actually still refers to ThinkPads as laptops. 01:20:23 That's just asking for trouble. 01:20:41 AnMaster: personally I don't care about my sperm, the issue is the comp overheating 01:20:52 ehird, well it is "bärbar" in Swedish. Translates to "carry-able" 01:20:55 admittedly you might need a beefy lap and some hardcore computation to do that, but 01:21:01 or possibly "portable" 01:21:01 AnMaster: that's some low standard for a portable computer! 01:21:06 that's better 01:21:12 ehird, well, literal translation... 01:21:15 is carryable 01:22:19 AnMaster: personally I don't care about my sperm, the issue is the comp overheating <-- not yet. You will in the future I bet :P 01:22:27 when you want to get children yourself 01:22:34 so approximately never then 01:22:35 sorry, it is some biological instinct 01:22:40 so yes it will happen 01:22:44 so is killing animals for food 01:22:49 with your bare hands and some crude tools 01:22:51 have you done that lately? 01:22:52 ehird, I meant, on the level or hormones 01:23:02 ehird: You mean that most people *don't* do that? 01:23:04 the reproduction instinct is on the exact same level 01:23:08 01:23:25 if you don't go out hunting every night armed with barely anything, then you are "denying" your instincts just as much as I do 01:23:29 pikhq: they use guns 01:23:35 you can't make a gun by sharpening a piece of rock 01:23:54 ehird: Sure you can. 01:24:07 It just needs a lot of bootstrapping. 01:24:08 call gates are fun 01:24:14 and obsolete 01:24:27 AnMaster: care to answer me? 01:24:38 ehird, what line 01:24:45 all of the above ↑ 01:24:58 you can't make a gun by sharpening a piece of rock <-- I agree with what pikhq said there 01:25:02 s/ / / 01:25:03 not that part. 01:25:11 pikhq: they use guns <-- true 01:25:16 not that part. 01:25:22 the part where i wasn't talking to pikhq. 01:25:39 the reproduction instinct is on the exact same level <-- hm. not sure about that. I'm pretty sure that the "food" instinct is "get food some way" not "that specific way" 01:25:55 yeah I guess all those neanderthal hunters were just really inventive. 01:26:01 every night 01:26:14 ehird, um. heard about learning? 01:26:21 even animals can do it 01:26:36 Animals such as these Sapiens in particular. 01:26:39 that's totally not my point, but 01:26:47 the fact is that there are plenty of people with no wish to breed at all 01:27:11 just as we don't do just about every other instinct we have 01:27:14 ehird, elks for example. Children follow their mother to learn what is editable and what isn't 01:27:19 seeing what she eats 01:27:26 saw this on some nature program on TV years ago 01:27:32 AnMaster: if it has a read-only switch, it's not editable 01:27:36 "When in doubt, try and steer the conversation to the previous topic." 01:27:51 hahd 01:27:53 typo 01:28:11 http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPinkFedoraRot.jpg Is this hat not the gaudiest thing you've ever seen? 01:28:12 GregorR-L: Not just Sapiens. 01:28:21 pikhq: Hence "in particular" 01:28:23 eatable I meant except it isn't spelled that 01:28:24 iirc 01:28:27 Rather than "specifically" 01:28:29 Homo neanderthalensis, notably, was more intelligent that Homo sapiens. ;) 01:28:31 ehird, ^ 01:28:33 AnMaster: so, are you seriously saying that every single human gets the overpowering urge to have children for the rest of their lives? 01:28:37 edible? 01:28:38 yes or no 01:28:40 pikhq: Bigger brain != more intelligent 01:28:44 coppro, yep that's it 01:28:45 pikhq: (Not at that scale anyway) 01:28:52 GregorR-L: Sorry. 01:28:59 ehird, I'm suggesting it is a strong instinct. Not one possible to overcome 01:29:03 GregorR-L: They were demonstrably intelligent, at least. 01:29:12 but harder to overcome than "must hunt food myself" 01:29:12 (tool creation, graves, etc.) 01:29:22 pikhq: Sure. But not demonstrably intelligent enough to build fucking cities, so we kinda win on that one. 01:29:22 just look at the population of the world 01:29:32 before you suggest anything else :P 01:29:32 Does anyone want to snap AnMaster back to reality 01:29:48 GregorR-L: Eh, that's a matter of failing at the ice age is all. 01:30:15 pikhq: Neanderthals were around for longer than we have been around. 01:30:43 pikhq: In all that time they never figured out anywhere near the level of technology we had in some 10K years. 01:30:44 http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPinkFedoraRot.jpg <-- wow. is it new? 01:30:45 GregorR-L: Touché. 01:30:48 pikhq: So no, they just f***ing lose. 01:30:55 AnMaster: You're misplacing the urge. 01:31:00 AnMaster: Just bought it :P 01:31:03 The urge is to have sex; the evolutionary intention is for reproduction. 01:31:17 But the urge isn't "I really want some GOD DAMN BABIES". 01:31:22 "GOD. DAMN. BABIES." 01:31:29 ehird, actually there is more to it than that. Do you think a baby crying sounds horrible? 01:31:33 For breakfast. 01:31:39 Yet you see older people that seems to find it cute. 01:31:43 AnMaster: That has nothing to do with actually having babies. 01:31:48 That's to do with once you've got one. 01:31:49 GregorR-L: Do not put the baby on the plate? 01:31:52 Of course there are childrearing instincts. 01:32:00 pikhq: DO put the baby on the plate! :P 01:32:00 There are not fuck-to-make-a-kid instincts; there are fuck instincts. 01:32:03 ehird, that is true. But you are affected by people *around* you having babies 01:32:08 like "wow I want that too" 01:32:13 xD 01:32:16 You're crazy. 01:32:18 I'm not yet at this age. Thank god for it. 01:32:23 AnMaster: I can conclude that you have a uterus from that statement. 01:32:24 or 01:32:24 I don't think the instinct to have sex is "make babies", I think it's "put my penis in that" 01:32:27 "Is that the new Baby 3000?!?!?!?!?!?!" 01:32:31 "Omigosh! I want one!" 01:32:31 ehird, :D 01:32:45 pikhq, no. You can conclude I read too much bilogy 01:32:46 "Hey, wifey! Can I put my penis in you? I want to make a baby 3000." 01:32:49 biology* 01:32:57 Bilogy: It's like biology but full of absolute bilge. 01:33:04 ehird, heh 01:33:09 ehird: No, it's the study of bile. 01:33:13 And nothing else. 01:33:14 :D 01:33:41 Poor bilologists. 01:34:27 pikhq, apparently men feel some sort of "take care of babies" instincts too. Not as strongly though. At least that is what I have heard. 01:34:44 Yes, take care of ALREADY EXISTING BABIES. 01:34:51 ehird, indeed 01:35:14 but see what I said above when you joked about model 3000 01:35:17 now, night 01:35:24 Once you've satisfied your "Let me vigourously move my penis inwards and outwards of this opening" urge, a little thing appears and you have to satisfy your "Let me stop this thing making that noise" urge. 01:35:39 This helps reproduction, but at no stage is the urge "Let me create a thing that makes that noise". 01:37:04 How strong is the paternal instinct in humans? Arguably the two instincts you've presented are by two different people :P 01:37:13 True, yeah. 01:37:32 The point is that males, at least, don't get the urge to make a whiney pooping vomiting thing. 01:37:33 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:38:02 …and thus concluding the argument that I could have one from the start by pointing to a sales chart of condoms. 01:38:06 s/one/won/ 01:38:29 There were some people wandering about Manhattan giving away "Obama condoms" 01:39:07 Sounds... awesome. 01:39:54 As far as I can tell they're PURELY a joke. There is actually no political message at all. 01:39:58 Made me go "8-D" 01:40:10 GregorR-L: That's awesome. 01:43:32 http://www.obamacondoms.com/ 01:43:42 "Who says experience is necessary?" x_x 01:43:49 "For the elitist penis" 01:44:04 http://www.practicesafepolicy.com/ 01:44:05 Oh god 01:44:07 McCain condoms 01:44:14 ;_; 01:44:24 I just died. 01:44:48 http://www.thepalincondom.com/ When abortion is not an option! 01:44:52 That's their actual slogan. 01:45:12 ehird: I presume they come with a hole in them? 01:45:19 :D 01:45:27 pikhq: No, those are Catholic Condoms. 01:45:38 No, no, no. 01:45:57 Catholic condoms allow all the sperm to go through. 01:46:00 After all, every sperm is sacred. 01:46:08 It is a very big hole. 01:48:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:26:13 Okay, "kilobit" is now pissing me off. 02:26:16 That's 1000 bits. 02:26:51 kibibit? 02:26:59 (couldn't sleep 02:27:03 will try again soon) 02:27:06 1024 bits. 02:27:15 ehird, what is wrong with that 02:27:30 A kilobit is used to mean 1000 bytes. 02:27:33 kilo- means 1000. 02:27:35 bit means bit. 02:27:37 1000 bits. 02:27:40 bits 02:27:42 not bytes 02:27:42 = 125 bytes. 02:27:43 indeed 02:27:49 ehird, and? 02:27:54 Also, "kilobyte" is not 1024. Kilo means 1000. 02:27:58 why is it pissing you off 02:28:00 Therefore, I am switching to the following unit system: 02:28:10 SI prefixes, including kilo- mean that. The resulting unit means that. 02:28:21 Kibi is the retarded nearest-power-of-2 prefixes. 02:28:25 as well as mebi, etc. 02:28:30 ehird, most people don't use the kibi and such 02:28:37 A byte is B 02:28:38 rather they use the SI ones to mean 1024 02:28:50 Kilo- is lowercase k, just like SI. 02:28:55 1 kB = 1000 bytes. 02:28:59 ehird: Congrats, you're using the *standard*. 02:29:03 Ki is kibi. 02:29:07 1 KiB = 1024 bytes. 02:29:15 AnMaster: actually, most people use 1000 02:29:19 like HD manufacturers do 02:29:49 ehird, well. last I looked windows didn't in the properties window 02:29:54 mind you that was on XP 02:29:58 so it might have changed 02:30:03 Yeah, but most people don't look at that. 02:30:13 Anyway, the difference usually doesn't matter, so those who don't know what it means won't suffer from this. 02:30:21 But from now on, I- 02:30:21 hmm, wait. 02:30:26 I think K is the SI prefix, not k. 02:30:27 Let me check. 02:30:41 ehird, if B is byte, what is bit then 02:30:42 AnMaster: also, note that CPU cycles, ethernet, wireless bands, ... also use the 1000 system 02:30:47 "bit" 02:30:53 kbit? 02:30:59 what about bits per second 02:31:05 is that bits/s 02:31:10 WHAT THE FUCK, SI. 02:31:10 or bps 02:31:14 It's k, but M and G and T. 02:31:17 ehird, :D 02:31:18 THAT MAKES SENSE?! 02:31:29 historical reasons I bet 02:31:31 ehird: K is a unit. 02:31:37 ah that 02:31:42 better reason 02:31:43 pikhq: I know but they do it for h, da, d, c, m, u, n, p, f, a, z and y too. 02:31:54 And everything above k - M, G, T, P, E, Z, Y is uppercase. 02:31:57 SO FUCK THAT SHIT. 02:31:58 Anyway. 02:32:13 ehird, da? 02:32:21 Yes. 02:32:23 Deca. 02:32:23 Ten. 02:32:25 ah 02:32:28 5 decabytes! 02:32:30 h would be? 02:32:41 Hundred. 02:32:43 Hecto. 02:32:46 ehird, 5 decibytes? 02:32:51 or dici? 02:32:54 deci = 0.1 02:32:57 well 02:32:58 dici then 02:33:01 for 1/8 02:33:05 hm 02:33:14 wait no 02:33:26 deca -> dici, deci -> ? 02:33:29 err 02:33:33 we have an issue here 02:33:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix 02:33:38 d and da. 02:33:41 Anyway. kB = 1000 bytes. MB = 1000 kB. GB = 1000 MB. TB = 1000 GB. PB = 1000 TB. And kiB = 1024 bytes. MiB = 1024 kiB. GiB = 1024 MiB. TB = 1024 GiB. PB = 1024 TiB. 02:33:51 err 02:33:52 oops 02:33:57 Anyway. kB = 1000 bytes. MB = 1000 kB. GB = 1000 MB. TB = 1000 GB. PB = 1000 TB. And kiB = 1024 bytes. MiB = 1024 kiB. GiB = 1024 MiB. TiB = 1024 GiB. PiB = 1024 TiB. 02:33:59 there. 02:34:02 :P 02:34:07 When defining new measures, use the non-i versions. 02:34:10 DONE. 02:34:24 just to confuse things. this is not same as SNMP MIB 02:34:53 When defining new measures, use the non-i versions. <-- nop, makes less sense for stuff like ram 02:34:59 Well, yes. 02:35:11 Things that aren't talking directly to silicon. 02:35:17 ah 02:36:33 Pebibyte sure is awkward to say. 02:37:25 http://pastie.org/577068.txt?key=jap84dhxsagpjw0jgks8g 02:37:28 Official standard. 02:37:37 I will now make sure this survives pastie by repeating it in-channel. 02:37:45 The SI-friendly information storage units 02:37:45 02:37:45 1 kB (kilobyte) = 1000 bytes 02:37:46 1 MB (megabyte) = 1000 kB 02:37:46 1 GB (gigabyte) = 1000 MB 02:37:46 1 TB (terabyte) = 1000 GB 02:37:47 1 PB (petabyte) = 1000 TB 02:37:49 02:37:51 1 kiB (kibibyte) = 1024 bytes 02:37:53 1 MiB (mebibyte) = 1024 kiB 02:37:55 1 GiB (gibibyte) = 1024 MiB 02:37:57 1 TiB (tebibyte) = 1024 GiB 02:37:59 1 PiB (pebibyte) = 1024 TiB 02:38:01 Pebibyte sure is awkward to say. <-- don't think so? 02:38:01 02:38:03 anyway 02:38:03 When defining new measures, use the non-bi units whenever reasonable (just 02:38:05 about everything that doesn't talk directly to silicon). 02:38:07 byte is wrong 02:38:07 (END OF FILE) 02:38:09 There. 02:38:11 Now it's done, and I can get on with my life. 02:38:11 since it is 8 bits 02:38:13 So's your mom 02:38:18 we need 10 bit bytes 02:38:23 for the SI ones 02:38:35 like kilobyte and kibibite 02:38:36 :D 02:38:40 no, byte is a fundamental unit 02:38:43 where byte = 10 bits 02:38:56 ehird, less fun :/ 02:40:46 now night again 02:40:55 why sleep 02:40:57 who sleeps. 02:43:13 Your MOM. 02:44:30 -!- ehird has quit. 02:58:49 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 03:02:11 -!- TimMcD has joined. 03:02:28 -!- TimMcD has left (?). 03:05:44 -!- TimMcD has joined. 03:11:45 Hey! 03:12:06 I would like to run an esolang idea by you guys. You up for it? ;) 03:12:27 Presumably. 03:12:40 Would be the first time we've been on topic this week. 03:12:46 Hehe 03:12:47 http://etherpad.com/esolangideas 03:12:48 ^_^ 03:13:17 That's the link to a doc describing the lang 03:13:30 good idea? bad idea? The kind of idea that makes bile rise in your throat? 03:13:51 Fighting pitiful Internet ATM. 03:14:25 mm I'll type some of it our here then. 03:15:21 My idea is based around blocks made up of rows, which are made up of cells. A cell '[]' contains 4 characters, two for the identifier (like classes/types) and two for the method/block identifier. A basic hello world: 03:15:38 [so0][Hello, world!] 03:15:55 so is standard output identifier, 0 being the identifier for the block that prints out the next cell 03:16:09 Rr, sorry, its actually 03:16:19 [so0][c0][Hello, world!] 03:16:22 I see it now. 03:16:24 c0 is a generator for strings 03:16:26 Ah ok 03:17:29 Not awful, but quite interesting. 03:17:36 Refreshingly unique semantics. 03:17:37 ;) 03:17:40 ^_^ 03:18:03 Groovy, thanks! 03:18:26 I feel like there needs to be a betterway to generate strings 03:18:44 I was thinking of somethign like: 03:18:45 [c0][H][e][l][l][o]... 03:18:57 But that would make it even harder to read 03:19:01 and be a pain to type out 03:20:14 any suggestions? 03:20:24 None ATM. 03:20:39 Bit distracted ATM. 03:20:43 GregorR-L: Þou? 03:28:33 すめません、えごがわかりまsか? 03:31:37 Who else is looking ati t? http://etherpad.com/esolangideas 03:32:21 -!- TimMcD has quit. 03:45:31 Woooh patience? 03:45:40 So anyway, rule 90 tie: http://www.zazzle.com/rule_90_tie-151155765045023221 03:51:46 -!- coppro has joined. 03:52:02 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:59:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:35:43 -!- TimMcD has joined. 04:35:50 Hello! 04:35:58 Anyone here? 04:36:18 possibly 04:39:50 Collapse the probability wave. 04:40:12 -!- coppro has left (?). 04:42:18 pikhq, haskell AND esoteric languages I see. 04:42:32 http://etherpad.com/esolangideas , any thoughts? I understand that string handling could be/should be better... 05:00:16 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 05:22:10 -!- TimMcD has left (?). 05:40:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:20:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:30:07 -!- coppro has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:16 Who else is looking ati t? http://etherpad.com/esolangideas <-- if only it loaded 08:03:29 maybe it needs javascript 08:18:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:36:25 AnMaster: it does 08:36:35 meh 08:38:39 it's pretty neat, actually 09:16:59 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:25:46 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:50:45 http://etherpad.com/ep/pad/export/esolangideas/latest?format=txt 09:57:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:29:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:52:24 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:04:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:15:21 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:21:38 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:02:43 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:25:34 -!- FireFly has quit (Connection timed out). 12:38:34 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:40:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:43:03 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:22:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:25:57 -!- Judofyr has joined. 13:30:22 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 13:37:37 -!- M0ny has joined. 13:48:18 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:48:21 glio 13:49:25 -!- Pthing has joined. 13:49:49 Pthing: i had a dream about you 13:49:55 :X 13:50:00 i think i was angry at you for some reason 13:50:05 but i couldn't talk. 13:50:50 fascinating 13:51:02 terribly 14:09:08 -!- ehird has joined. 14:09:43 hello vagabonds! 14:10:16 ehird: obviously there aren't any here, you didn't get a reply 14:10:26 vagabonds are very humble/secretive, pick one 14:12:08 20:42:18 pikhq, haskell AND esoteric languages I see. 14:12:17 how I sarcastically read this: 14:12:22 brainfuck AND esoteric languages I see. 14:12:58 haskell has many of the good points of an esolang, whilst actually being practical 14:13:00 no wonder we like it 14:13:07 00:03:29 maybe it needs javascript 14:13:07 i look forward to the day where every web page requires javascript, just to see you demand all links start with gopher:// 14:13:19 ? 14:13:24 replying to AnMaster 14:13:40 well, I think people should use gopher to serve up the Javascript for HTML pages 14:13:47 it's funny because etherpad is actually a neat and useful thingy 14:13:57 (it's gobby, but online so you can just throw someone a link) 14:16:43 (although it wasn't too good until recently due to being slow; it got better when the makers decided to focus on it instead of the web application backend thinamagic they built it on) 14:20:33 -!- M0ny has quit. 14:20:52 plop 14:21:45 Sb 14:21:49 wat 14:22:09 ehird: it's a chemistry pun 14:22:13 Sb = anti-M0ny 14:22:41 >_< 14:22:46 how likely is it that anyone would get that? 14:22:53 pretty low, I imagine 14:23:40 but I've been waiting months to make that pun 14:23:46 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:27:06 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:28:41 "this morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric 14:28:44 administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration." 14:28:49 — http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/98rob/seriously_rnc_oh_its_on_now/c0btuoq 14:29:09 Pfft, the free market can do that. 14:29:19 With magic. 14:30:31 (Funny how such a good comment is followed in two steps by: "tl;dr, but upvoted and made this comment so that I can come back tomorrow after I've had a good night's sleep.") 14:31:04 (Six paragraphs, one is very short (being the title), two are short.) 14:31:17 (Maybe we should just start prescribing ritalin to *everyone*.) 14:40:48 ehird: You've got to give libertarians *some* credit. ... I can't come up with any reason why. 14:41:50 They are advancing stupidity research! 14:42:46 they made snow crash possible? 14:42:52 There we go. That's what I was looking for. 14:43:01 Snow Crash - some definition of possible 14:43:15 i meant the writing of it 14:43:34 What, did they take away all of his state-given resources or something? 14:43:36 And this gave him superpowers? 14:43:47 no, it's just 14:43:51 without libertarians 14:44:00 he wouldn't have had the anarchocapitalist setting 14:44:06 ehird: Hmm. Well, *one* actual thing about libertarians: they take what the Republicans *claim* to be in support of and actually *support* it. 14:44:07 good! then we wouldn't have as many shitty books 14:44:19 That is, they're at least *honest* about what they believe. 14:44:38 Ain't much, but it's something. 14:50:00 * ehird lols that yourworldoftext.com uses repeated ajax requests instead of comet 14:50:07 Didn't people learn from the counter? 14:51:29 Y'know the major problem that "ZOMG FREE MARKET" people have? An ideal free market is like an ideal gas: it doesn't *exist*. It's just a useful model. 14:52:01 pikhq: No, no. 14:52:05 It's made of magic and fluffiness. 14:52:13 That's why, if you try and touch it to make it better, it turns into rage itself. 14:52:16 And kills everyone. 14:52:23 No matter how small the change. 14:52:26 DUH. 14:52:30 ehird: So, what you're saying is that, if you get rid of all governments, it all magically works? 14:52:39 "Hooray"? 14:52:40 No, you need a government to guard the free market, duh. 14:52:48 Also to enforce property! 14:52:54 a completely free market would fail because people dislike immigrants 14:53:04 ais523: ok, *that's* ... a new one 14:53:07 without free migration you can't have a free market 14:53:08 So, the government would do... Half of what the retards dislike. 14:53:15 have i missed several steps of logical deduction or are you on crack 14:53:19 pikhq: precisely! 14:53:23 (antitrust regulation) 14:53:24 because otherwise you don't have a free market in labour 14:53:29 pikhq: nooo who said antitrust 14:53:33 pikhq: they just stop other people interfering 14:53:34 :P 14:53:43 ehird: Right, antitrust. 14:53:44 ;) 14:53:55 pikhq: that's far too indirect for the libtards to understand! 14:53:56 ehird: there's only about half a step of logical deduction there 14:54:25 speaking of idiotic economics, I am going to carefully consider any PBA suggestion that doesn't come from BobTHJ :-P 14:54:47 AIEE 14:54:48 "My goal is to slowly continue to add information to my database until 14:54:48 the full state of Agora is tracked." 14:54:52 Kill him! Kill him with FIRE! 14:54:57 ...okay, I'm done 15:01:05 DIE DIE 15:21:06 sigh https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/359578 15:21:17 ehird, guess what chipset I have? :D 15:21:26 yes that one 15:21:34 Gee, I was going to guess "not that one". 15:22:01 it seems like an interesting game though 15:30:18 ehird, btw I found a rather odd software. A train driving simulator. 15:30:52 sounds... riveting 15:31:00 drive from both ends at once and rip it in two! 15:31:20 ehird, well, there was only one supported train in the version in ubuntu at least. 15:31:25 and it was a single ended one 15:31:32 http://openbve.trainsimcentral.co.uk/ 15:31:57 btw, 3D graphics ran smooth of the laptop, but cpu fan ended up working at highest speed. 15:32:15 unsurprising 15:32:24 physics calculations? 15:32:30 that is my best guess 15:33:28 * AnMaster builds warzone2100 using gentoo portage. better gpu on there :P 15:33:41 AnMaster: not better gpu 15:33:43 better drivers 15:33:56 the gpus should be somewhat equal 15:34:04 ehird, hm I wonder how much video memory the intel one has... 15:34:13 as in. dedicated. Not shared main memory 15:34:23 0 15:34:38 AnMaster: what model is it? 15:34:40 GMA what 15:34:42 well. the gerforce 7600 has 512 MB RAM 15:34:43 iirc 15:34:47 or was it 256 15:34:48 not sure 15:34:49 anyway 15:34:53 ehird, well lets see... 15:35:50 Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07) is all lspci says 15:36:01 what mobo chipset 15:36:24 * AnMaster uses lshw 15:36:33 * ehird uses a duck 15:38:08 closest I can find is "host bridge"... hm 15:38:35 which is "Mobile 4 Series Chipset Memory Controller Hub". Lots of details in that... NOT 15:38:52 Oh, just tell me what laptop you bought. 15:38:56 R500 integrated? 15:39:00 oops, *notebook <_< >_> 15:39:11 R500 yes. *looks for specific model number* 15:39:20 doesn't matter 15:39:24 they only offer one integrated gpu 15:39:27 on it 15:39:31 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:40:04 AnMaster: GMA 4500MHD. It can use over 512MB of your RAM if you want. 15:40:14 ehird, right. 15:40:40 ehird, main memory has to compete bandwidth with CPU though 15:40:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:40:57 as in, both graphics and programs running on CPU will use the same memory 15:40:58 shruggggggg 15:40:58 \ 15:41:03 *drop that line 15:41:09 oerjan, hi! 15:41:18 hi all 15:44:22 oerjan, the joke in IWC was quite awful today, don't you agree? 15:44:43 i may, eventually 15:44:54 darth and droids more than made up for it though :D 15:45:20 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:45:41 :D to iwc 15:47:02 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:49:03 -!- jix has joined. 15:54:25 * oerjan once again finds himself pausing instinctively for Comments on a Postcard to finish loading 15:54:48 (dammit) 15:54:50 :D 15:55:06 http://armorgames.com/play/4309/this-is-the-only-level this is great 15:56:03 i tried it a bit yesterday 15:56:33 i think i got to the dreaded pink strip level 15:56:40 *stage 15:56:47 lol@stage 13 15:57:01 don't tell me that's a game 15:57:01 no wait that wasn't it 15:57:05 because i opened it 15:57:05 oklopol: it is 15:57:07 oklopol: it's one level 15:57:09 over and over again 15:57:10 but different 15:57:14 it's the fun 15:57:23 different how 15:57:34 oklopol: try it and see. 15:57:43 i time. 15:57:46 *in 15:57:52 i gave up at that level "arrows" that treated the mouse (trackpad in my case) as arrow keys or something 15:58:06 oerjan: easy 15:58:10 also, *stage 15:58:13 stage 15 has me stumped 15:58:16 argh 15:58:40 i expect it would be easier with a genuine mouse 15:58:47 eh 15:58:50 you just have to go left and right 15:58:52 easy 15:59:05 well and click 16:00:51 My time was around 7:40 IIRC (did it yesterday) 16:01:01 what, for all of it? 16:01:07 Yes, all of it 16:01:08 I'm on stage 15 and 8 minutes in... 16:01:13 how do you do stage 15 16:01:15 i'm desperate! 16:01:18 it's the time to refresh one 16:01:18 Which one is it 16:01:23 the button does nothing and there's a green plank 16:01:23 Refresh... 16:01:28 You know, F5 16:01:33 ... x_x 16:01:44 JAVA GAMES ARE AN UNTRESSPASSABLE SANDBOX 16:01:48 THIS IS MY MENTAL MODEL 16:01:48 err 16:01:50 FLASH 16:02:22 -!- Asztal has joined. 16:02:25 hey it reset to 5 minutes 16:02:26 uber cool 16:02:57 does it get hard at some poine? 16:02:58 *point 16:02:59 Heh, I guess it can't count the time you spent on level 15 :-) 16:03:01 or at least interesting 16:03:03 oklopol: No 16:03:08 And not really 16:03:16 oklopol: Yes 16:03:20 It is fun. 16:03:32 and it's not hard per se 16:03:34 how many levels are there? 16:03:35 but you have to think a little 16:03:37 It's an amusing design but not /really/ interesting 16:03:37 dunno 16:03:38 over 30 16:03:42 30 IIRC 16:03:42 but each one takes like 10 seconds 16:03:55 ah 16:04:15 hmm 16:04:18 how does stage 18 work... 16:04:20 the collapsing one 16:04:20 ohhhhhh 16:04:23 you go on top of right 16:05:58 okay, i managed to do something very clever on "time to refresh" 16:06:26 what? 16:06:29 i refreshed. 16:06:31 :D 16:06:38 that's 16:06:40 that's what you're meant to. 16:06:42 click continue 16:06:46 oh. 16:06:49 xD 16:06:52 yeah confused me too 16:06:59 right, right 16:07:09 i just assumed it wasn't the correct thing to do 16:07:19 Thank the foo it was that short. 16:07:31 I have to finish my thesis today, and there are still 42 TODO comments in it. 16:07:48 :D 16:07:48 Recommendation: shut off IRC 16:07:52 nooooooooooo 16:07:58 anyway stage 24 is the odd 16:08:11 Oh, it's probably the crap 16:08:17 wat 16:08:18 Which one was 24 again? 16:08:21 Or one of them 16:08:27 UPPERCASE 16:08:33 Yeah 16:08:46 Ah. Well, it wasn't that odd. 16:08:53 LOL CAPSLOCK 16:08:58 Though I did try shift first. 16:09:04 DITTO 16:09:31 what's the idea of "mime's folly"? 16:09:38 oklopol: mimes 16:09:40 you know when they like 16:09:42 make fake objects 16:09:43 with their hands 16:09:45 and they look real 16:09:47 and press 16:09:56 (basically there's an invisible wall.) 16:10:08 It's pretty possible not to notice the wall, though. 16:10:20 One level was annoying without QWERTY, I forget which one it was 16:10:26 fizzie: not imo 16:10:33 Deewiant: center keyboard 16:10:34 Deewiant: The "middle keyboarder" or some such. 16:10:41 Yes, I forget the number 16:10:48 It used TFGH, right? 16:11:08 yes 16:11:13 oh lawd@28 16:11:55 that was fun 16:12:04 11:57:62.5, 63 deaths 16:12:05 :P 16:12:15 With my layout those are FETH... could have been worse, but still 16:12:50 (I.e. those are in the respective places of FETH on a QWERTY) 16:13:53 Anyway, just in case you aren't aware there are other games featuring the elephant 16:13:55 meh now I've addicted myself to flash games again 16:13:58 http://armorgames.com/play/1719/elephant-rave 16:13:58 Deewiant: there ARE? 16:14:01 http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked 16:14:02 i love that guy already! 16:14:06 Possibly others 16:14:11 i mean i loved how it was just... an elephant 16:14:12 for no reason! 16:14:15 http://armorgames.com/play/3102/run-elephant-run 16:14:26 I think that's it 16:14:40 Achievement Unlocked was somewhat amusing 16:15:00 wow elephant rave is x_x 16:15:28 okay god that was pointless 16:15:53 holy hell oklopol 16:15:56 try achievement unlocked 16:16:41 Incidentally, there was one elephant-themed 4k intro. It wasn't in the "serious 4k" category, but people still voted for it: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53606 16:16:42 that was like completely the opposite of what kind of games i like, i want to think inside the box, and have complex puzzles 16:16:57 achievement unlocked is like this is the only level + 34785345873485478583745 16:16:59 and this was the other way around 16:18:42 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 16:19:20 -!- Asztal has joined. 16:21:18 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:23:56 so there are only 34785345873485478583746 levels? how frugal. 16:24:00 Welp, managed that in 501 seconds and only had to check one hint 16:24:34 I've done it before though, so it doesn't quite count 16:24:34 oerjan: :D 16:25:17 80% done in 400 seconds, but I'm not going to try any time-trialings. 16:25:24 And my thesis! You bastards! 16:25:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:25:33 fizzie: :D 16:25:42 I maintain my recommendation 16:25:57 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:26:04 hee, i jumped top-right and killed myself like 5 times on the spike 16:26:06 century 16:26:07 score 16:26:47 I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly 16:27:30 `addquote I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly 16:27:31 Based on the horizontal and vertical confusions, I hope total confusion is not "all direction keys at once", since I don't think I can get it with this keyboard. It's not, right? 16:27:31 64| I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly 16:27:38 :-P 16:27:44 fizzie: No, it's not 16:27:48 Good, good. 16:28:31 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:28:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:12 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:29:19 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:29:28 * oerjan was going to suggest someone ban fizzie, but then... 16:29:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 16:29:58 is liftoff 3-2-1-fly up? 16:30:10 No 16:30:16 3-2-1-0-fly? 16:30:19 No 16:30:22 k 16:30:39 lament: please kickban fizzie. it's for his own good, he has a thesis to finish. 16:32:37 Deewiant: how come 0-1-2-3-4-5 doesn't get that 16:32:44 i can count to 5 16:32:54 Get what 16:32:56 Liftoff? 16:33:02 "I can count to 5!" 16:33:19 Maybe you messed up and hit something twice 16:33:32 nope 16:34:30 hm i must have 16:34:31 got it now 16:34:44 890 seconds. Please stop with the elephants. 16:35:21 I wonder why all those squares hide you 16:35:26 fizzie: 1167 16:35:50 you still have http://armorgames.com/play/1719/elephant-rave and http://armorgames.com/play/3102/run-elephant-run to play, anyway! 16:36:12 I tried, but they seemed to be more skill-based. 16:36:20 Can you even "finish" them? 16:36:25 That does not EXCUSE YOU 16:36:25 Yes, they end 16:36:30 See? 16:36:37 Still not "gonna". 16:39:26 what's programmer's credit 16:39:31 0-2? 16:39:36 Type the name 16:39:50 that turned my elephant pink. maybe i mistyped. 16:40:02 oh, must have been a different number 16:40:54 what's speedy downfall :P 16:41:29 Opposite of escape velocity 16:41:33 oh, lol, the numbers change elephant colour 16:41:41 so i must have done jmt02 or something at first 16:42:30 yay i did speedy downfall 16:42:30 95% 16:43:10 must be something with that orange starting point 16:45:07 Meh, I'm stuck 16:45:15 Deewiant: what's the seat thing 16:45:22 Seat thing? 16:45:54 get off your seats 16:46:17 Oh, that's the one I had to lookup 16:46:27 There /is/ a hint button, you know 16:46:37 I know, but I might see other ones. 16:46:50 #32: Get Off Your Seats = Jump for 10 seconds nonstop 16:48:27 Uhh, it told me I entered the contra code 16:48:28 But I didn't. 16:48:46 I think it just needs UUDDLRLR 16:48:58 i did that in another app i think maybe 16:48:59 by mistake xD 16:49:08 so konami code right 16:49:10 contra confused me 16:49:24 Deewiant: too much free tiem is completion right 16:49:25 *time 16:49:28 Yep 16:49:36 so I just have to liftoff 16:50:42 ehh 16:50:54 oh 16:50:56 5 4 3 2 1 0 16:51:00 so i was on the right track 16:51:02 you could have told me 16:52:41 2091 seconds 16:52:42 done 16:52:44 thank fucking god 16:53:47 Palin makes me ashamed of my species. 16:54:00 assassinate her 16:54:31 No. I intend to convince biologists that there are two extant subspecies of Homo sapiens. 16:54:42 Homo sapiens sapiens, and Homo sapiens stultus. 16:54:45 haha run elephant run is fun 16:54:52 pikhq: no, homo sapiens sapiens and homo spaiens palin 16:54:55 *sapiens 16:55:08 ehird: Stultus covers more than Palin. 16:55:28 :P 16:58:52 run elephant run on easy was uh 16:58:53 not easy 17:01:02 * oerjan discovers to his surprise that pikhq is _not_ mangling latin there 17:01:29 * oerjan then swats ehird for doing exactly that -----### 17:01:38 :( 17:01:42 you're so horrible to me. 17:01:44 * ehird cries 17:02:18 oerjan: My roommate studied Latin for 4 years in high school. 17:02:35 Mangled Latin makes him wince, and it's starting to make *me* wince. 17:02:51 hooray! 17:03:32 Hooray indeed. 17:03:39 * oerjan expects to be hit by Lex Muphriensis on the matter soon 17:03:43 yesterday (well, today) i walked around town barefoot at 3am :D 17:04:00 it was fun 17:04:53 in the weekend? i'd be worried about broken beer bottles... 17:05:09 actually, the streets were all smooth 17:05:20 a few little pieces of glass here and there but perfectly walkable 17:05:34 also warm and very quiet 17:06:08 clear sky, too; I swear if I looked above in just the right way I could see the earth's curvature :P 17:12:46 huh, i just realised there's no "random video" button on youtube 17:13:19 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 17:14:02 hmm, you could simulate it 17:14:15 go to all the videos linked easily from youtube pages, go to every one of the related and same person ones in random order 17:14:19 for like half an hour 17:14:25 then just use your now fucked up recommendations 17:15:20 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:18:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:26:09 3d glasses are amazing 17:27:06 US military expenditures: $623 billion. Rest of the world combined: $500 billion. 17:27:09 I'm going to go be sad now. 17:27:18 wait, combined? 17:27:23 i didn't know it was that bad 17:27:26 Yeah. 17:27:56 This... Is sheer madness. 17:28:10 And no, it is not Sparta. 17:28:46 look on the bright side of it. even with _that_ expenditure, they got trouble with Iraq + Afghanistan. 17:29:29 That's because guerilla warfare > organised warfare. 17:29:39 discovery: drinking while wearing 3d glasses is hard 17:29:41 (see: most revolutions) 17:36:28 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 17:37:21 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:43:54 why does Wikipedia's preference page want to know my gender :\ 17:44:12 ehird: it's for languages other than English 17:44:18 so they can use the right form of words like 'the' 17:44:23 Optional: used for gender-correct addressing by the software. This information will be public. 17:44:35 ais523: are you sure it isn't "he/her" or something? 17:44:48 ais523: anyway, that's monumentally stupid; why does it need to be PUBLIC? 17:44:54 that's how it could be relevant in English, but IIRC it comes up a lot more elsewhere 17:45:00 and it's public because it's shown to other people 17:45:05 why? 17:45:13 as in, even something as simple as "user contributions" could change depending on the gender of the user 17:45:18 in various foreign languages 17:45:24 ah 17:45:25 and that's in the sidebar, for everyone 17:45:35 and I thought English was genderist 17:46:12 ais523: what does it do if you leave it unspecified? 17:46:16 and why can't it do that for everyone? 17:46:18 no idea 17:47:09 I bet it does something stupid, like assume the user is male or something 17:47:20 given what I know of MediaWiki, that wouldn't surprise me in the least 17:48:00 wait till they find out that some people consider themselves neither! we'll get two sliders 17:48:04 maleness and femaleness 17:48:07 and they have to add up to 100 17:48:13 from that, it randomly weights which to use 17:48:24 isn't engineering wonderful 17:50:06 one slider, obviously; the bit to one side is maleness, to the other side is femaleness 17:50:18 that way, the shape of the UI enforces the add up to 100 17:51:02 ais523: that's an interaction designer solution! 17:51:13 ? 17:51:15 actually the engineers would probably expose the two as text boxes 17:51:28 nah, as query-string parameters 17:51:30 ais523: I'm joking as to how the engineering mindset would solve the problem of "but what about people who aren't either?" 17:51:46 and you haven't even considered furries yet... 17:52:01 oerjan: don't furries have a gender? 17:52:02 no, furries don't think they're spiritually animals; that's otherkin 17:52:09 and they still, presumably, have a gender 17:52:11 surely that depends on species 17:52:21 I don't think there are ameoba otherkin 17:52:21 anyway, I know that the Guild (which is responsible for the Guild Council I mention sometimes) recognises at least 7 genders 17:52:31 ais523: err... which ones? 17:52:35 they're rather strong on equal opportunities and political correctness 17:52:42 please don't tell me they think transgender is a gender in itself 17:52:47 -!- ehird has left (?). 17:52:50 -!- ehird has joined. 17:52:51 oops 17:53:12 ehird: male, female, transsexual male, transsexual female, transgendered male, transgendered female, and indeterminate 17:53:21 * ehird facepalm 17:53:28 we would not want to engender a transgression here 17:53:34 Transgendered male; also known as "female". (Or "male", depending on which way aroudn it is). 17:53:38 *around it is.) 17:54:10 And transsexual male/female, also known as female/male (or, again, male/female). 17:54:27 In conclusion, that list is identical to "male, female, indeterminate". 17:54:46 ehird: they installed gender-neutral toilets, so as to be able to give a set of toilets that people in the five less common genders could go into without arguments 17:55:01 BUT FOUR OF THE "LESS COMMON GENDERS" AREN'T GENDERS! 17:55:14 :P 17:56:07 * oerjan just has to mention the gender neutral pronoun h'orsh'it he recently saw somewhere 17:58:07 ais523: just to confirm, if someone is a transgendered male-to-female and then has a sex change operation, even though their legal documents say female your university still glasses them as transsexual male/female? 17:58:14 *classes 17:58:16 forever 17:58:17 weird definition of politically correct 17:58:30 ehird: the distinction between transsexual and transgendered is whether there's been a sex-change operation or not, IIRC 17:58:45 -!- jix has quit ("Lost terminal"). 17:58:46 ais523: I know that; read my line again 17:58:49 that isn't what I asked 17:59:11 someone who was a transgender male-to-female and then had a sex change operation is a transsexual, but their gender isn't "transsexual female", it's "female" 17:59:14 ehird: well, there are biological differences... 17:59:26 ais523: it's a list of genders 17:59:28 not a list of sexes 17:59:36 anyway, you don't want to go into how many sexual orientations they recognise, I don't actually know myself but it's a lot 17:59:59 heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual? :P 18:00:10 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:00:11 unless it's non-sex/gender orientations too 18:03:19 don't forget pansexual 18:03:30 pans are hot 18:03:49 Asztal: but pansexuality is just a kind of bisexual imo 18:04:06 also on wp, polysexual: "Polysexuality refers to people who are attracted to more than one gender or sex but do not wish to identify as bisexual because it implies that there are only two binary genders or sexes." 18:04:12 that, for instance, is just a qualm with the name 18:04:15 not a different position 18:04:19 i do not recommend sex with hot pans 18:04:21 i think pansexuality is pretty similar 18:06:03 Dear Wikipedia, 18:06:09 When I said "use MathML when possible", I meant that. 18:06:23 We clearly have very, very different definitions of "possible". 18:06:33 ehird: it's probably to do with what's possible for MediaWiki 18:06:36 which is probably not a lot 18:06:38 ais523: "6 ! = 1 \times 2 \times 3 \times 4 \times 5 \times 6 = 720. \ " 18:06:54 Yeah, totally impossible. 18:07:00 oh, and there are actually semi-official guides telling you how to force things to render as images not HTML 18:07:04 * ehird tries purging 18:07:06 so that all the equations in an article look the same 18:07:17 err, how do you purge again? 18:07:19 ?action=purge does nothing 18:07:31 ais523: ... MediaWiki's math rendering is... TeX... 18:07:35 it's ?action=purge, which if you're logged in appears to do nothing 18:07:44 pikhq: no, it's some custom format that thinks it's TeX, IIRC 18:07:54 I think they use real LaTeX nowadays 18:07:56 ais523: OK, it must be a bug of some sort; "0! = 1 \ " renders as an image 18:08:00 ais523: ... They don't actually use TeX? MURDER. 18:08:10 pikhq: TeX doesn't do pngs. 18:08:20 it looks very like TeX, but it's less powerful, presumably to prevent people writing infinite loops into the code of the document 18:08:28 pikhq: Do you, incidentally, use pdftex? 18:08:30 That's not TeX, either. 18:08:36 XeTeX? Hehehehe 18:09:02 ais523: ah, hmm 18:09:07 maybe MediaWiki knows that Safari doesn't do MathML 18:09:10 ehird: There's the TeX program, and there's the TeX language. 18:09:11 ;) 18:09:13 an overly clever definition of "possible" 18:09:20 ehird: adding spacing commands like "\ " is the recommended way of forcing non-html iirc 18:09:28 oerjan: MathML. 18:09:29 Not HTML. 18:09:36 oerjan: IIRC, you use negative-width spaces, to really force non-HTML 18:09:43 ah 18:09:43 and people put that in the articles 18:09:49 so all the equations look the same 18:09:53 thus defeating the point of the preference 18:11:11 * ehird removes \ in a user space copy 18:12:21 The page "User:Ehird/sandbox" (links | delete) has been moved to "User:Ehird/Sandbox" (edit | links | revert | log) 18:12:58 ais523: indeed, removing "\ " fixes it 18:13:26 does MathML have a code for "space added specifically to stop this rendering as anything but an image", I wonder? 18:14:01 18:14:14 grr, there should be a way to delete your own user subpages 18:14:30 I now have a useless vector.css link being added to every page 18:14:36 ehird: put {{db-user}} on them 18:14:46 and an admin will delete it pretty quickly, those are really noncontroversial 18:14:54 Fuck violations of the law of least surprise. 18:14:57 should be automatic, grumble 18:15:02 ehird: that would be abusable 18:15:05 ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ehird/vector.css 18:15:08 well that worked. 18:15:10 rename a popular article into your userspace, then delete it... 18:15:25 also, so don't allow renaming a popular article into your userspace 18:15:34 pikhq: i bet that'll surprise them 18:15:35 the work required to put it back is the same as undeleting 18:15:48 what if you created it in the first place, and it came from your userspace? 18:15:51 oerjan: actually, I find I still gullibly trust computers to work as I expect 18:16:08 ais523: ugh, i don't care; but templates aren't being expanded 18:16:09 ehird: it's in CAT:SD anyway 18:16:10 could you delete it? 18:16:14 it's the fluoride in the water 18:16:16 OK 18:16:18 I just checked 18:16:22 just the category doesn't render on the page 18:17:00 * ehird considers redesigning vector in userspace and then hax0ring wikipedia to set it for everyone 18:20:56 I find it somewhat perverse that water flouridisation is not common in Colorado Springs... 18:21:09 Don'tcha now they can control your mind through that stuff. 18:21:15 (... water flouridisation was discovered there, because natural water sources there have flouride.) 18:21:31 Ah. 18:21:34 xD 18:21:41 pikhq: Dude, do you know what that means? 18:21:45 GOD is controlling our minds. 18:21:52 well, why would they add it if it occurs naturally, duh 18:22:00 oerjan: he was joking 18:22:02 oerjan: They take it *out*. 18:22:05 ........ 18:22:07 What. 18:22:44 ehird: They have to take some of it out, though; the amount of flouride in the water supply mottles the teeth. 18:22:51 STILL! 18:22:54 ... They just take *all* of it out. 18:23:14 I thought it was pregnant women who were hurt most by overflouridation 18:23:39 I know because there was a row about it here in the UK a couple of weeks ago, a water company was putting far too much flouride in and ignoring their own warning mechanisms 18:25:10 ais523: It deforms the bones of babies. 18:25:19 And mottles the teeth of all. 18:25:27 right, that's it; I'm mocking up a design of Wikipedia that doesn't involve information clutter, showing things you don't need, unexcellent typo… you know, negating this list made it awkward. 18:25:33 pikhq: sounds awesome 18:26:00 Overflouridisation is t3h suck. 18:26:14 ehird: you'll find that more or less every link on a typical Wikipedia page is either needed by someone, or the WMF insist on it 18:26:26 ais523: not the pages, the chrome 18:26:34 and besides, I can hide the ones not needed at the moment 18:26:38 I'm talking about things like the links around the edges 18:26:40 and nobody can stop me using it as a user CSS 18:26:55 ais523: right, there's absolutely no need to have them like that at all, I can assure you 18:27:08 (wow the pdf version thing is slow) 18:27:16 (it's at 1% for a tiny article) 18:27:22 well, certainly as an admin, being able to hit things like user contribs, block, etc, in 1 click is highly useful 18:27:33 oh, it went from 1% to 100% 18:27:38 ais523: oh, absolutely 18:27:42 number of clicks is important in case you're doing it in something like 50 tabs in parallel, a ribbon wouldn't really work for that 18:27:47 i'm not a very good designer but i'm not an idiot 18:28:00 besides, admins do obviously have different needs than users 18:28:35 nah, because non-admins do adminny work too 18:28:42 at least, they're supposed to 18:28:50 they don't block people 18:29:05 mass reports to AIV have happened in the past 18:29:18 although if it gets too over-the-top, ANI is generally a better choice 18:30:05 I'm mainly interested in something I can read without wanting to gnaw my eyes out, and secondarily something I can do brief editing and administrivia to quite easily 18:30:31 maybe there could be a "I'm going to stay in the house for a few months editing" button :P 18:30:36 that enables monobook 18:31:04 "I hate it when errors on the main page got reported in the wrong place and they got fixed pretty quickly, then my properly placed error reports on WP:ERRORS get ignored." 18:31:09 do you think they realise? 18:31:41 realise that people have used the main page since the stone age and will do so forever? and that thus they have to check both places, thus slowing them down? 18:31:53 it's almost enough to make a man nominate WP:ERRORS for deletion 18:32:03 user contributions is a useful function 18:32:10 ehird: it's to do with watchlisting 18:32:18 Talk:Main Page tends to be rather fastmoving 18:32:20 if somebody makes one stupid error, if you see their user contributions, they usually make lots of them 18:32:23 and you can laugh at them 18:32:27 so if you report an error there, an innocuous change might be next there 18:32:28 ais523: but they check it anyway to complain at them! 18:32:31 and hide the watchlist entry 18:32:40 so they're already doing that hard work 18:32:53 ehird: it'll be slower, manually checking as opposed to just having a watchlist entry 18:33:09 ais523: I'd be fine if Talk:Main Page had a subsection called Errors, with a link "add one" that edits the included template page 18:33:17 I thought it did 18:33:20 oh no, my fans just spinned up 18:33:25 or have people changed their minds again? 18:33:28 ais523: it does, but it's in the header 18:33:31 and it doesn't include the error page 18:33:48 people who would report it in talk:main page don't know about the + button, but they DO ignore headers and warnings like everyone else 18:33:57 if it looked like a subsection with a big "Add one" link, it'd be used 18:34:53 "Wikipedia is a free content encyclopedia written by a global community of volunteers. Sometimes, false information is added to Wikipedia. Do not trust information in Wikipedia - use additional references" 18:34:54 — Mobile Wikipedia 18:34:59 they should replace Wikipedia's disclaimer with that 18:35:41 the WMF would go crazy 18:35:47 but then, they do anyway 18:36:20 it's funny that encyclopedia dramatica is run more smoothly and with less drama than wikipedia 18:37:54 hmm, [[Wikipedia]] isn't an FA 18:37:56 heh 18:40:21 * ehird redesigns around [[Barack Obama]] 18:40:38 under the assumption that it's a relatively normal article and is obviously well-maintained 18:40:44 although it's unusually long... 18:41:38 ehird: The whole cult-of-personality thing. 18:41:50 pikhq: what in particular? 18:42:17 Obama you mean? 18:42:24 ehird: ... There's quite a few people who seem to think that Obama is the second coming or something. 18:42:28 yeah 18:42:28 Half of that article is probably devoted to rebutting the birthers 18:42:31 though 18:42:32 :P 18:42:51 for a more objective source 18:42:52 http://conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama 18:42:55 where are thse people, pikhq 18:43:06 it seems like a good republican talking point 18:43:07 "allegedly[1][2][3][4][5] born in Honolulu" 18:43:22 haha wow Obamunism xD 18:43:30 but the only people i saw get really knicker-wetting joyful over Obama was during the election 18:43:42 and huge parts of that were "hooray bush is gone forever" 18:43:56 OR IS HE 18:44:02 yes he is 18:44:59 see, what if Palin is actually Bush 18:44:59 Pthing: It has at least cooled off, yes. 18:45:01 consider it. 18:45:17 It was horrid during the election. Now, it's at least a few silly people. 18:45:32 whereas whole scads of the Right must have had a terrible buttock rash for all eight years 18:45:36 What scares the shit out of me is the Palin followers. 18:46:14 It surprised me just how rapidly those people went from EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU'VE GOT TO RESPECT THE PRESIDENT to HE'S NOT A REAL PRESIDENT, ALL AMERICANS DISSENT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT 18:46:15 like 18:46:25 I wasn't politically aware when Clinton was in 18:46:36 so all along I thought they actually *believed* that 18:46:38 Are you familiar with doublethink? 18:46:47 sure, I felt stupid when it happened 18:47:07 but really it was amazing how rapid the turnabout was 18:47:13 yeah, absolutely 18:47:23 Republicans have a very simple belief system: the corporations are right. 18:47:33 That's unfair. 18:47:34 one day was "Well if the President wants to wiretap and uh and kill some terrists and stuff then you have to accept it because WE THE PEOPLE ELECTED HIM" 18:47:35 What's good for the people screwing us is good for us. 18:47:36 next day 18:47:40 It's entirely accurate, but it's unfair. 18:47:45 "Maybe if someone uh ASSASSINATED him that'd be okayyyy?" 18:47:48 It's accurate because that's how it's been set up 18:47:55 pikhq: ais523 came up with a wonderful way to understand republicans 18:47:56 but the manifestation is more complicated than that 18:48:12 if you take it as axiomatic that bad things happen to people because they deserve it, the republican platform makes perfect sense 18:48:12 Pthing: Obviously. Even simple things are complex. 18:48:15 and the democrats are insane 18:48:43 ehird: Except that they claim that that axiom is from the Bible. 18:49:03 and as we all know, the bible is axiomatic because it says so! 18:49:08 There's very few things that are axiomatic in the Bible. ;) 18:49:25 i like the part where jesus pretty much revokes everything 18:49:36 Best part, IMO. 18:49:39 "Hmm... don't you think these rules are a bit stringent on the masses? Will they BUY this stuff?" 18:49:44 "...you're right." 18:49:51 "But we can't just GET RID of it all! That's our BACKSTORY!" 18:49:55 "Fuck that shit. Be good to each other. 18:49:58 " 18:50:00 "Well... just put some sort of note about all the stuff before it being false, kay?" 18:50:02 "Sure thing." 18:50:05 *THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER* 18:50:13 ehird: and there is also the part where he claims he isn't changing a single letter of anything 18:50:17 "Fags will burn in hell!" 18:50:29 oerjan: the part about clams was allegory, man 18:50:42 clams? where? 18:50:46 oerjan: He claims rather that the law was in fact intended to end. He's not changing it, he's the succcessor to it. 18:50:49 ;) 18:51:01 pikhq: couldn't god just have made humans not stupid fuckers at the start and given them the perfect law? 18:51:08 just sayin' 18:51:17 he could, but we didn't want it 18:51:24 that's his fault! 18:51:26 he designed us 18:51:36 to within certain tolerances 18:51:48 he's fuckin' omnipotent, what's his problem 18:51:54 his problem is he was lonely 18:51:55 he did fine with the rest of the universe 18:52:04 and wanted to create something that could love him back 18:52:12 Pthing: but he could just change metareality so he wasn't lonely! 18:52:20 he'd have known the difference 18:52:28 but he never metareality he liked! 18:52:34 he wouldn't simulate having someone who loves him 18:52:43 he'd just make it so that the concept of "god is lonely" is objectively false 18:52:54 god can't trick himself like that 18:52:55 the man's smart enough to create a universe. 18:53:02 that kind of logic is for created things 18:53:14 Pthing: congrats, you just reminded me why I hate arguing with religious people 18:53:21 i'm going to go put my head in a blender now 18:53:35 well man it's not a hard idea, and it even works here 18:54:05 but that was just the pre-starter argument! 18:54:05 you can put it this way, he's omniscient, so he'll know he fucked with his own mind 18:54:18 it'd be about five years until i got to the main course 18:54:21 *have been 18:54:36 Pthing: the universe is just fucking with his own reality. 18:54:57 how? 18:55:20 >_< 18:55:22 what else is it? 18:55:30 ... THEY ACTUALLY THINK WEATHER UNDERGROUND IS A TERRORIST GROUP. 18:55:35 FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 18:55:40 "universe" and "reality" are both words to describe Creation 18:56:25 pikhq: I wouldn't say terrorist, but "the group conducted a campaign of bombings through the mid-1970s, including aiding the jailbreak and escape of Timothy Leary" 18:56:43 In 1970 the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government, under the name "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO). The bombing attacks mostly targeted government buildings, along with several banks. Most were preceded by evacuation warnings, along with communiqués identifying the particular matter that the attack was intended to protest. For the bombing of the United States Capitol on March 1, 1971, they issued a commun 18:56:57 iqué saying it was "in protest of the US invasion of Laos." For the bombing of The Pentagon on May 19, 1972, they stated it was "in retaliation for the US bombing raid in Hanoi." For the January 29, 1975 bombing of the United States Department of State Building, they stated it was "in response to escalation in Vietnam."[5] 18:57:12 ehird: Oh, so they actually have justification for the term. 18:57:23 Yeah; that, at least, is not one of their crazier statements. 18:57:24 In other words, not complete craziness, just hyperbole. 18:58:11 I find it amusing that they think is a radical, communist liberal. 18:58:27 ... How many communists do corporate welfare, exactly? 18:59:15 *Obama/he 18:59:19 You missed a wordy word 18:59:43 Right. Sorry. 19:00:07 ... Obamunism. 19:00:21 And they think that his policies will lead to a second Great Depression. 19:00:22 Yes. :D 19:00:24 Obamunism! 19:00:32 What, like... Now? 19:00:37 Before he got in office? 19:01:05 And... They think he's muslim. 19:01:13 Good Lord, people. 19:01:58 And they think he's actually mind controlling people. 19:02:10 WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MOTHERFUCKING CRAZY. 19:02:17 THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS. 19:02:18 D': 19:02:22 and BobTHJ believes a good portion of all this! 19:03:07 "Obama tries to downplay his Islamic background by claiming that his Kenyan Muslim father was a "confirmed atheist" before Obama was born, but in fact less than 1% of Kenyans are atheists, agnostics, or non-religious." 19:03:11 As we all know, 1%s don't exist. 19:03:23 It is significantly more plausible to claim that there are aliens coming down to earth on a regular basis. 19:03:32 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:03:37 there are aliens coming into the country on a regular basis, at least 19:03:43 why does everyone forget what "alien" actually means... 19:03:45 ais523: From outer space. 19:04:05 ais523: Die, prescriptivist! 19:04:10 ? 19:04:24 what was there to ? about 19:04:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription 19:04:30 Mexico is also a space 19:04:32 Alien doesn't mean that, 19:04:37 because people don't use alien to mean that, in general. 19:04:39 and it's outside the US 19:04:42 (unless the context is obviously immigration) 19:04:56 i'm a prescriptivist 19:05:00 Anyways. At least claims regarding aliens sometimes are regarding unexplained situations. 19:05:04 oklopol: no you're not 19:05:11 oerjan: i so am 19:05:21 It's at least possible to say "We don't know WTF that is, it might be aliens." 19:05:24 oklopol: no way 19:05:34 oerjan: yes uhhuh 19:05:46 But... Obama being Muslim, and from Kenya? There is a huge amount of evidence against it. 19:06:01 pikhq 19:06:02 they don't care 19:06:04 oklopol: not a chance 19:06:12 they're just scared racist shits 19:06:14 ehird: Oh, right. They hates logic. 19:06:24 oerjan: i'm totally a prescriptivist 19:06:26 they can't attack his policies convincingly, so they attack him 19:06:28 They refuse to believe that they are wrong. 19:07:03 [[Obama alleged Saddam "has developed chemical and biological weapons" but was willing to condone the most hideous use of torture[124] from a man who "butchers his own people."]] 19:07:15 Of course, if Saddam wants to waterboard, that's just fine, now, isn't it? 19:07:22 Because bullshit is easier to argue against than reality. 19:08:10 oerjan: this is where you say "incredibly not" 19:08:51 ehird: Anyways. If these idiots were European, they would be voting for the Nazis. 19:08:57 oklopol: no it isn't 19:09:02 The crazies are everywhere. 19:09:04 pikhq: they do. 19:09:08 oerjan: it so was 19:09:08 It's called the BNP. 19:09:18 ehird: ... Yes, that was my point. 19:09:20 and i'm leaving now, so i win 19:09:22 -> 19:09:22 Right. 19:09:51 oklopol: that's just what you are saying 19:10:04 You know what's funny? Britain is not that much more left-wing than the US, and yet even our right-wing party fully supports universal healthcare and even a lot of privacy. 19:10:10 The US is just insane. 19:10:44 Anyway, Conservapedia's Atheism article used to start with a picture of Hitler. 19:10:50 There's no point even trying to understand or rebut them. 19:11:38 ehird: ... Wasn't Hitler nominally Christian? 19:11:46 More than nominally. 19:11:54 yay, now it has Marquis de Sade 19:11:57 Unless you ask "conservatives". 19:12:51 pikhq: "hitler was not an atheist / was a christian" articles kept showing up on reddit all the time 19:13:24 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 19:13:25 probably still there in /atheism which is no longer on the main page (last i looked) 19:13:28 the fun part of /r/atheism is that it only makes any sense if you believe conservative christians are reading it 19:14:08 ehird: ah so you think it's mostly crap too? 19:14:14 who doesn't 19:14:39 I don't even remember what site this /r/foo stuff refers to :P 19:14:44 reddit 19:14:48 Oh yeah. 19:14:53 That's why it's all bullshit. 19:15:00 the top two links in /r/atheism right now, 19:15:04 interesting fact: Hitler was commonly believed to be male 19:15:07 GregorR-L: was mentioned the line before you entered 19:15:09 "My new hobby. Leaving atheism themed books on display model ebook readers. This one is at Target." // real productive! have you got a life yet? 19:15:15 second: 19:15:17 "To all those who post the repetitive "This is a circle jerk..." to /a/atheism. Getting in the middle of a circle jerk and opening your mouth actually makes it "Bukkake"." 19:15:18 ohh 19:15:21 you're so witty 19:15:23 ZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 19:15:34 you totally rebutted that guy, now get back to jerking everyone else off. 19:15:39 in conclusion, something 19:15:40 ehird: That... Is a truely dumb sub-reddit. 19:15:47 Your spelling is truely dumb. 19:15:50 ehird: ah yes there was a great comment quote yesterday, let me see if i can find it 19:16:08 Anyway, a subreddit for atheism isn't an inherently bad idea; it's just that this incarnation is worthless. 19:16:27 ais523: i'm pretty sure hitler was male :P 19:16:28 (probably impossible) 19:16:36 ehird: see what I mean? 19:16:46 ais523: are you metatrolling :D 19:16:52 GregorR-L: We got here from discussing Conservapedia's article on Obama. 19:16:52 I never metatroll I didn't like/ 19:16:56 s/\/$/./ 19:16:58 pikhq: Bahahahah 19:17:12 SECRET MUSLIM COMMUNIST KENYAN ZOMG KILLING AMERICA! 19:17:13 But he's not an atheist, he's a muslim! :P 19:17:39 Have they added any new "Muslim" "evidence" since last I checked? 19:17:51 Almost certainly! 19:18:09 Hey, maybe Conservapedia is part of Obama's socialist eugenics program. 19:18:16 anyway, I retroactively invoke Godwin's Law on someone or other, I don't particularly care who 19:18:21 all the conversation since then never happened 19:18:29 Anyone who makes a non-satiric edit to Conservapedia won't be allowed to breed when the program comes into place. 19:18:36 And their existing babies will be harvested for food. 19:18:46 ais523: Probably about when we claimed that they would be voting for Nazis if they were in Europe. 19:18:55 don't Conservapedia claim that they'll sue vandals? 19:19:02 ais523: also, anyone who swears 19:19:06 http://conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Commandments 19:19:12 "Everything you post must be true" 19:19:17 I don't even want to visit that link, the URL is scary enough 19:19:19 "must be family-friendly, clean, concise, and without gossip or foul language" 19:19:22 found it: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/98sg3/please_stop_spamming_the_main_reddit_with_your/c0bu3p4 19:19:24 "When referencing dates based on the approximate birth of Jesus, give appropriate credit for the basis of the date (B.C. or A.D.). "BCE" and "CE" are unacceptable substitutes because they deny the historical basis. See CE." 19:19:26 ... A plausible claim, when you look at the nationalist parties (that are also ZOMG SOCIALISTS, if US opinions are to be believed) 19:19:32 and finally 19:19:33 Minors under 16 years old use this site. Posting of obscenity here is punishable by up to 10 years in jail under 18 USC § 1470. Vandalism is punishable up to 10 years in jail per 18 USC § 1030. Harassment is punishable by 2 years in jail per 47 USC § 223. The IP addresses of vandals will be reported to authorities. That includes your employer and your local prosecutor. 19:19:46 the rest are rather boring apart from 19:19:46 ooh 19:19:51 "Do not post personal opinion on an encyclopedia entry." 19:19:52 wait, how do they know who your employer is? 19:20:04 ehird: Without gossip? I'm afraid to make an edit following that, I would have to replace the articles with Wikipedia. 19:20:05 ais523: Professional stalkers! 19:20:16 also, haven't they just made an unfulfilable promise if you vandalise it when unemployed? 19:20:22 pikhq: also true, also without personal opinion 19:20:32 ais523: Unemployed people have no money. 19:20:36 Their parents kick them out as soon as they can get a job. 19:20:40 So, they don't have internet. 19:20:40 ehird: Like I said, Wikipedia. 19:20:46 Or maybe selections of Uncyclopedia. 19:20:48 Only True Americans who work can access Conservapedia, and they have jobs. 19:21:10 19:21:34 wikipedia needs a level above featured articles 19:21:39 like Super Featured Articles, there's only 10 at once 19:25:15 there's the main page featured article 19:26:30 ais523: that's not a particularly good featured article, though 19:26:32 just a random one 19:26:55 not random, there's a featured article director who plans the featured articles on each day ages in advance 19:27:21 ais523: Raul has said he just picks them randomly iirc 19:27:38 not always, they tend to be on appropriate days 19:27:45 and some are left out due to being inappropriate for the main page 19:27:46 that's just sometimes, though 19:28:01 anyway, point is, they're not picked for being really good FAs 19:29:22 * oerjan checks on a hunch whether "pornography" is a featured article. but alas. 19:36:55 "I have over $100,000 of software in my saddlebags. We’re sending a release to about twelve customers. […] I reach the counter with a few minutes to spare, and off the packages go. Declared worth, about ten bucks each; it’s just duplicated disks and photocopied manuals after all." 19:37:05 Never before has someone so succinctly make a point they weren't trying to. 19:37:16 *made a point, maybe. 19:38:39 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃"). 19:39:09 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/98zwt/hypothetical_situation_if_someone_were_walking/ ← $0 due to the inevitable legal results being something in the vicinity of $infinity 19:40:19 http://fragsworth.com/audio_functions/1988/ amazing 19:42:50 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:42:58 pikhq_: http://fragsworth.com/audio_functions/1988/ 19:43:23 *Thank* you, oh glorious Internet, for dropping connections at the drop of a hat. 19:43:54 omg, it has videos too 19:43:58 I will never sleep again 19:45:55 * ehird tries to make a rotating checkerboard 19:46:04 <3 19:46:06 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 19:46:51 so 19:47:25 so 19:47:27 how would you transmit text to a human at 1000 7-bit characters per minute? 19:47:34 (without using eyes) 19:47:53 bsmntbombdood: ethernet cable :P 19:48:01 sex? 19:48:16 bsmntbombdood: well let's say a word is five letters 19:48:24 so 200 wpm 19:48:31 i'm sure you could learn to hear at 200wpm 19:48:49 won't work 19:48:54 has to be able to do source code, etc 19:49:03 make up a language, obviously 19:49:24 do you think you could understand chorded electrical shocks? 19:49:33 no, I'd be too busy screaming 19:49:50 ... 19:51:00 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:51:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:53:25 actually 19:53:32 how fast can one of those braile displays go? 19:53:44 human's the bottleneck there 19:54:03 bsmntbombdood: well my knowledge has a bit of a blind spot there 19:56:03 hurp durp 19:58:28 o 19:58:34 k 19:58:50 o 20:01:05 so 116 b/s, might be close to human peak listening speed 20:02:02 bytes per second? 20:02:04 xD 20:02:33 ? 20:02:38 oklopol: 116 bytes a second? 20:02:42 how can we possibly listen that fast 20:02:46 that's about 14B/s 20:02:54 oklopol: so 116 b/s, 20:02:54 you could have a different tone for each byte 20:02:57 oh bits 20:02:58 not bytes 20:03:15 well yes, that's the one place where you need to care about caps 20:04:29 actually there are others, such as m vs. M prefix 20:04:41 i just say bit 20:05:00 oerjan: much less confusing though, also for bits, not at all so 20:06:22 anyway i'd say the actual used information content per english character is about two bits, by that random estimate you'd need about 20 words per second 20:06:38 which contains another random estimate of 5 characters per wordds 20:06:39 *word 20:07:08 a letter is 5 bits isn't it 20:07:20 err, yes 20:07:25 that doesn't really mean much 20:07:29 you said 2 bits 20:07:44 sdhgjhaerw takes about an hour to explain, abababababa takes about a second to say 20:08:02 ehird: compressed size 20:08:25 sdhgjhaerw is only about two syllables, much quicker to say than abababababa 20:08:35 Deewiant: crazy finns 20:09:02 Not really, I just think "sdhgjh" is quite compressible 20:09:16 ehird: that would be crazy georgians, i don't think finns could pronounce that 20:09:16 yeah the estimate is based on current best compression 20:09:40 but i've heard 1 bit per character is how much a human needs, no idea what that's based on 20:09:58 anyway need to go again 20:10:55 oklopol: i've heard that too. 20:12:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:12:25 ummmmmm so actually everything sucks, did you heard 20:12:57 ah there are unit differences too 20:13:05 s = second, S = siemens 20:15:07 ehird: that is a matter of some gravity 20:15:18 fuuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuuuu oerjan 20:15:45 what, did i cause an accident? 20:16:58 http://fragsworth.com/video_functions/781/ 20:35:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:36:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:53:15 bsmntbombdood: attach things to their fingers that move them as if they were typing the text. 20:53:31 that only gets you 100wpm 20:53:35 you need 200wpm 20:57:48 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:13:56 it would be nice if it was passive and hard to see 21:14:13 you know, like electrodes across your belly or something 21:14:43 what exactly are you doing 21:15:25 cool, you can print a book on the fly from an arbitrary set of wikipedia pages; with greyscale images 21:15:28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/PediaPress_Books_-_interior_2.jpg 21:15:47 ehird: nothing 21:27:56 So, what's the purpose of this, again? 21:29:20 oklopol: I think that's based on people's ability to predict the next letter of a sentence, given a dictionary. 21:30:06 ehird: That's pretty cool actually ... 21:40:42 -!- ehird has quit. 21:41:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("The purpose of a purple porpoise"). 22:08:40 -!- ehird has joined. 22:08:45 GregorR-L: it is cool! 22:09:29 I wonder how many books it'd take to get all of articlespace 22:09:49 How are book prices calculated? 22:09:49 The cost of a book depends on the number of pages contained in addition to a base fee. 22:09:51 helpful 22:09:57 A single book has a maximum size of approximately 800 pages. If a larger book is ordered, it is automatically split up into multiple volumes. 22:09:58 hee 22:10:29 so about 2500 books 22:10:32 assuming 1 page/article 22:10:40 which knowing how large some articles are and how short others are, seems fair 22:11:26 still, less than $55 for 800 pages 22:11:49 much less it seems, 819 = $37.76 22:12:00 lol http://pediapress.com/books/show/bdsm/ 22:16:16 http://pediapress.com/books/show/nothing/ 22:16:23 A good use of $21.92 + shipping 22:19:38 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:25:30 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:26:32 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:29:57 -!- timmcd has joined. 22:30:05 Hello people! 22:30:56 Hi! 22:31:07 Who brought you from #haskell? :-P 22:31:12 pikhq, I suspect you. 22:31:16 Actually 22:31:21 No one ;) 22:31:35 Huh, unpossible. 22:31:38 Just filtered the freenode.net channels for one pertaining to esoteric languages. 22:31:41 There are too many combined Haskell/esolang lovers :P 22:31:45 lol 22:31:49 timmcd: I'm surprised you could tell we're about esolangs with the topic 22:32:01 We're http://esolangs.org/ 22:33:40 ah ok 22:34:03 So, hi. 22:34:04 -!- pikhq__ has joined. 22:34:08 ehird / anyone else: http://etherpad.com/esolangideas 22:34:12 pikhq__: fix your damn net 22:34:13 Think that looks allright? 22:34:16 timmcd: Ooooh you're that guy 22:34:24 I don't associate new names for a few days 22:34:27 Idk if that's good or bad, ehird... 22:34:34 I just saw you in the logs :P 22:34:37 Ah ^_^ 22:34:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:34:53 I want as much feedback as I can get ;) 22:37:40 timmcd: It looks basically like assembly with an odd syntax and convenient types/IO, which is better than most people's first language :) 22:39:15 lol... thanks? 22:39:32 Hey, we can't go praising people's first languages, what with how many we get on the wiki. 22:39:39 :P 22:39:43 yeah, too true. :D 22:40:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:40:31 pikhq: I'll buy you an internet pipe. 22:41:04 ehird: No point. I'll have real Internets in a couple weeks. 22:41:14 I can't wait that long. 22:47:37 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]"). 22:48:56 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:51:21 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:54:30 -!- pikhq__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:59:51 -!- timmcd has quit ("Leaving."). 23:05:06 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:17:50 -!- comex_ has joined. 23:18:02 -!- comex has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:20:14 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:20:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:37:11 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 23:43:43 so let's try to not try for three lines after this 23:48:54 ok let's try a little more than that 23:51:01 Hahah. 23:51:35 i'm very pleased with this moderate amount of trying 23:51:41 ~fin~ 23:52:11 Todo list 23:52:51 [X] Find out if we're marginally funny in any way 23:52:51 [ ] Make a bot that lets us turn this into comics in a line 23:52:51 [ ] Attain internet infamy 23:52:59 it worked for jerkcity 23:57:17 ehird: please explain the joke 23:58:01 mycroftiv: as i said, it worked for jerkcity. among the various things that jerkcity lacks lies "jokes" 23:58:21 i dont know what jerkcity is, i need that part of the joke explained 23:58:44 http://www.jerkcity.com/ 23:58:57 the only microsoft comic chat-created IRC comic that's been running since 1998. 23:59:02 and that features dongs. 23:59:10 (at least I hope there aren't others)