00:04:20 -!- coppro has joined. 00:08:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Direct-blood-transfusion.jpg 00:08:46 Looks like fun! 00:18:13 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:30:41 -!- coppro has joined. 00:33:39 -!- iano has joined. 00:34:38 Well THAT'S safe. 00:35:42 -!- iano has quit (Client Quit). 00:35:54 -!- iano has joined. 00:36:39 GregorR: Normal blood transfusions are about as safe, actually. The only difference is a bag and shipping between donor and receipient. 00:36:54 (oh, and testing) 00:37:00 Normal blood transfusions have a screening procedure 00:37:01 Testing?! NONSENSE 00:37:01 yeah 00:37:13 And you can be sure you won't get any EVIL GAY BLOOD. 00:37:23 Or radioactive blood 00:39:29 or zombie blood 00:41:07 Or gay zombie blood 00:41:19 Trust me, you don't want to be hit on by a zombie 00:41:45 Only gay zombies hit on people, or there are no female zombies? :P 00:42:09 Or, if I can judge by my past, I am only capable of being hit on by men? 00:42:15 Zing! 00:42:36 damn oerjan isn't here <-- i haven't listened to the iwc podcasts actually, should do that some time 00:43:02 oerjan, they are hilarious 00:43:06 finished them all now 00:43:13 oerjan, the first one is horrible though 00:43:20 heh 00:43:49 i recall reading they have horrible volume control, or something 00:45:10 ehird, any idea about how to get high res timer for MIDI working under ubuntu? 00:45:18 rosegarden is giving me errors 00:45:27 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:45:29 only way seems to build a custom kernel 00:45:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:45:48 uhh 00:45:50 hmm 00:45:54 AnMaster: what's the issue 00:45:56 i mean 00:45:58 what needs fixing 00:46:21 ehird, rosegarden needs a 1000 Hz kernel or a snd-rtctimer kernel to be able to record midi 00:46:30 ubuntu studio has a realtime kernel 00:46:34 it might be packaged in ubuntu 00:46:38 * AnMaster looks 00:46:46 The real-time kernel included with Ubuntu Studio 9.04 is modified for intensive audio, video or graphics work. The scheduler allows applications to request immediate CPU time, which can drastically reduce audio latency[2]. The 8.10 release lacks this real-time kernel, but it has been reimplemented in the 9.04 release. 00:47:26 hm 00:47:36 not in normal ubuntu it seems 00:47:49 The realtime patches will be integrated in $SOON. 00:47:49 ehird, anyway for MIDI I don't need all that, just snd-rtctimer 00:47:51 or so 00:48:13 since I'm only doing MIDI I don't even need to bother about jack here 00:48:13 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/317120 00:48:27 aren't .kos like dynamic kernel objects? 00:48:36 so you could just compile snd-rtctimer 00:49:12 ehird, read a few comments below 00:49:24 ehird, comment 3 to be specific 00:49:33 hmm 00:49:37 not sure; ask on ubuntuforums? 00:49:51 ehird, I'm doing it on my desktop 00:49:53 for now 00:50:00 AnMaster: by the way, I found out what the foo..bar stuff in the k life is 00:50:14 ehird, oh? 00:50:43 basically, every variable (K has a whole directory tree of variables; foo.bar.baz is a dictionary as in foo[`bar][`baz] etc) has a set of attributes 00:50:53 which is a dictionary of auxiliary information 00:50:56 it's referenced as var. 00:50:59 so 00:51:01 to get the attribute x 00:51:03 you do var..x 00:51:05 or var.[`x] 00:51:14 ehird, my desktop has a 2.6.30 kernel, which handles the issue 00:51:18 with the hrtimer 00:51:22 and i gather that the GUI uses these to define things about how to display and manipulate stuff 00:51:31 since `show$2, just shows 2 00:51:35 as opposed to, like, other ways of showing it, i guess 00:51:38 haven't got that far yet 00:51:40 but you could do 00:51:42 x:2 00:51:47 x..blah:gkdfgdf 00:51:48 then 00:51:48 huh 00:51:50 whatever 00:51:50 `show$`x 00:51:51 No output. 00:52:07 AnMaster: if you didn't want to know, you could have not asked 00:52:23 ehird, well, I didn't know it would be like that 00:52:33 would you prefer a kitten or something? 00:52:43 ehird, would have preferred a one-liner 00:52:50 ;P 00:53:01 Quick; give me the Erlang spec in one line. 00:53:59 I wonder what tempo http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/CthulhuIsComingToTown.pdf is in... 00:54:09 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:54:10 * AnMaster tries to determine by listening 00:54:18 same as santa clause is coming to down 00:54:19 i'd assume 00:54:29 ehird, I don't know that song 00:54:33 xD 00:54:42 ehird, I mean, I know Swedish xmas songs 00:54:44 aren't all the iwc songs parodies. 00:54:44 and a few English 00:54:45 like 00:54:57 "We wish you a merry Christmas" 00:55:19 and there are some both in Swedish and English 00:55:23 ehird, possible 00:55:32 ehird, some I notice, others I just wouldn't know 00:55:43 however I noticed choice of music was very odd in a few 00:56:02 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast017.html 00:56:37 that is Pachelbel's Canon 00:56:43 which is definitely not wedding music 00:57:07 a famous classical music piece yes, but NOT wedding music 00:57:15 maybe I should contact DMM about that 00:57:35 -!- coppro has joined. 00:57:52 oh wait, it seems it is in America 00:57:53 huh 00:57:56 strange they are 01:00:20 Love and carriage, love and carriage; go together like a horse and marriage! 01:00:59 GregorR, ? 01:01:11 anyway, to me Canon sounds definitely wrong for wedding music 01:01:32 GregorR, could you record http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/CthulhuIsComingToTown.pdf :D 01:01:42 on piano I guess 01:02:29 Looks like just another rendition of Santa Claus is Coming to Town, with different lyrics ... no great purpose in replaying that. 01:03:59 GregorR, kay. got a link to "santa claus is coming to town"? 01:04:06 since I don't know this piece of music 01:04:19 I guess it's too American slash Hooray Commercialism :P 01:04:22 Google? 01:04:27 `google youtube santa claus is coming to town 01:04:29 \ [15]YouTube - Santa Claus is Coming to Town 01:04:35 THANK YOU HACKEGO 01:04:40 what 01:04:41 about 01:04:43 the link 01:04:44 -_- 01:04:49 My thoughts exactly :P 01:04:58 it's a very bad song 01:05:34 But, but, he's making a list! 01:05:41 I like the IWC rendition of it 01:05:42 I wonder why youtube seems to list a bunch of bruce springsteen ones first 01:05:50 after a brief listen it seems i've mostly heard the jackson 5 rendition 01:06:23 Every time I look for a song on YouTube, the top results are always the Three Tenors, and I always wind up disappointed. 01:06:42 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:07:04 * AnMaster tries to figure out which computer has which set of headphones connected 01:07:07 and to which soundcard 01:07:14 one of them has onboard and a sound card 01:07:32 oh there we go 01:07:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS1Yysc9qHo 01:08:01 warning: bad song. 01:08:47 haha sweet, 01:09:03 in K you can make strings show as buttons instead of strings 01:09:05 and that evaluates them on click 01:09:07 i love how dynamic it is 01:09:09 oklopol would love it 01:09:23 it exactly fits his "show the object directly with metadata about how it's shown" thingy 01:10:16 I wonder why youtube seems to list a bunch of bruce springsteen ones first <-- those seems better than the one you linked... 01:10:28 mind you "better" != "good" 01:10:29 that doesn't mean they're the most common rendition 01:10:42 which is generally the thing you'd want to know when someone says "what does this sound like" 01:10:58 ehird, actually the bruce springsteen one sound a bit familiar 01:11:02 think I heard it years ago 01:11:06 on vinyl 01:11:09 Maybe sweden has better musical tastes than the uk then 01:11:37 ehird, actually I think it is my parents who have better musical taste simply. 01:11:51 or that 01:12:54 ehird, extensive vinyl collection. Well, not extreme. Just about 1.5 meters of shelf space or so 01:13:02 I have seen worse oh photos 01:13:07 s/oh/on 01:13:19 /s/s/$/\// 01:13:26 errrr 01:13:32 xD 01:13:49 /^\/s/s/\^s/ 01:13:52 I *think* 01:13:53 that 01:14:01 would change the first one to match one starting with s 01:14:07 not one having s anywhere 01:14:15 ehird, think I'm right? 01:14:22 no fucking clue 01:14:27 /^\/s/s/\^s/ 01:14:29 that should 01:14:30 change 01:14:33 /s/s/$/\// 01:14:33 to 01:14:36 nfc. 01:14:36 /^s/s/$/\// 01:14:37 which 01:14:55 would then add the original missing / to s/oh/on 01:14:59 :D 01:15:06 ehird, what? don't you know sed? 01:15:12 [02:14:36] /^s/s/$/\// 01:15:20 Isn't that too many (non-escaped) forward slashes? 01:15:31 FireFly, no 01:15:32 no, s is a sed command 01:15:37 coming after the position change 01:15:39 Or am I missing something? 01:15:40 Ah 01:15:43 /^s/ ; s/$/\// 01:15:45 /foo/s/bar/quux/ 01:15:46 -!- randomit1 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:15:53 only applies on line with the word foo 01:15:55 for example 01:16:09 so a matcher and a substitution regex, combined? 01:16:13 +spelling 01:16:20 FireFly, well, sed is TC... 01:16:27 FireFly, lots of more commands supported 01:16:40 I've only ever used sed for s/// 01:16:48 Guess I should read about it some day 01:17:07 FireFly, I don't know much more than s p and q 01:17:14 command-wise 01:20:08 i'm addicted to k 01:20:11 the code is just so short 01:20:21 ehird, I need synergy to forward sound too 01:20:22 since 01:20:34 I confuse them now 01:20:39 surely there's a networked sound daemon. 01:20:43 also, it sounds like you want plan 9 01:20:44 ehird, yes there is 01:20:47 everything is networked and shared! 01:20:54 just do the equivalent of 01:20:55 ehird, sure. except with a GUI I can stand 01:21:01 'bind /n/desktop/sound /dev/sound' 01:21:06 and your sound goes to the desktop 01:21:10 AnMaster: Plan 9's UI is great. 01:21:13 ehird, which soundcard on the desktop 01:21:14 you're just not used to it. 01:21:22 AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that 01:21:24 I was giving an example 01:21:30 ehird, and which channels 01:21:35 AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that 01:21:35 AnMaster: ehh, there's prolly something for that 01:21:37 I use *hardware mixer* on desktop 01:21:38 I was giving an example 01:21:38 :P 01:21:41 ehird, yep 01:21:45 anyway 01:21:47 it would be cool 01:21:58 but, I need something that I can run most software on 01:22:06 plan 9 has a posix emulation environment :P 01:22:06 and that can handle wlan and so on 01:22:14 ehird, can it handle my wlan? ;P 01:22:15 I bet not 01:22:19 almost certainly not. 01:22:45 ehird, there you go then. I wonder if making plan9 handle stuff or adding those concepts to linux would be easiest 01:23:09 Glendix is trying to build Plan 9 on top of the Linux kernel but it's not pretty. 01:23:16 ehird, and yes, I would like to be able to treat them as one computer at times, and as different computers at other times 01:23:31 ehird, since one is running KDE and the other gnome, clearly trying to combine them isn't trivial 01:23:39 I mean, 01:23:44 K's variable hierarchy is basically a filesystem, it's interesting 01:23:48 perhaps filesystems aren't all bad... 01:24:17 ehird, if they were a bad concept, it wouldn't be so common 01:24:24 .................. 01:24:26 I mean, sure some would still use it 01:24:33 [01:24] AnMaster: ehird, if they were a bad concept, it wouldn't be so common 01:24:36 You are everything wrong with everything. 01:24:42 Aren't you an atheist, I recall? 01:24:44 for being common, you need to be a *local* optimum, you don't need to be a global optimum 01:24:44 ehird, grammar fail indeed 01:24:51 You know that >90% of the population is religious? 01:24:52 -!- Leonidas has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:24:52 "they wouldn't" 01:24:56 So it obviously can't be a bad concept. 01:25:01 ehird, I'm agnostic 01:25:03 So why aren't you religious? 01:25:10 -!- Leonidas has joined. 01:25:40 ehird, SHOULD there be sound and solid proof I'm prepared to change my point of view. 01:26:02 however, I don't find that likely 01:26:02 You are justifying filesystems by saying "if they weren't an okay idea, they wouldn't be so common." 01:26:11 I am justifying religion by saying "if it wasn't an okay idea, it wouldn't be so common". 01:26:23 You are saying that using filesystems is good because of this. 01:26:27 And should be done. 01:26:29 ehird, well, I believe in that computer scientists are at least not completely irrational 01:26:30 So why aren't you religious? 01:26:46 it takes a certain amount of intelligence to program a computer 01:26:51 AnMaster: I don't believe that. 01:27:02 A cursory glance at any modern "architecture" can dispel any myth of sanity. 01:27:12 We're *used* to APIs not doing what they say and breaking in random ways. 01:27:18 sure, there are stupid ones, but even the plain english creator needs to be able to understand a few bits of basic 01:27:19 We build things around making working around this less painful. 01:27:21 That is insane. 01:27:21 basics* 01:27:34 Modern CS produced Java. 01:27:38 It is simply not sane. 01:28:02 ehird, um... depends. the uni I'm going to also uses python in some cources 01:28:04 and C# 01:28:09 apart from java 01:28:18 ...what part are you contradicting? 01:28:29 still, quite far from lisp 01:28:31 Modern CS, inarguably, produced Java. 01:28:39 Modern CS, inarguably, does the other things I said. 01:28:42 ehird, well that could be true 01:28:45 but 01:28:52 AnMaster: do you know how many programmers work on windows? 01:29:40 ehird, why haven't one of the old smart ones (joke intended) suggested anything new? Or have Knuth suggested a replacement for file systems for example? 01:29:50 Knuth's work doesn't use filesystems. 01:29:52 maybe he has, and I'm just ignorant 01:30:03 It's entirely algorithmic,. 01:30:08 s/,\.$/./ 01:30:08 ehird, well, in his day-to-day usage of computers he would still end up using them 01:30:21 AnMaster: yeah, and one of the original unix guys uses windows as his day to day OS 01:30:24 ehird, so while his book might not cover them 01:30:25 with plan 9 in a window 01:30:34 that doesn't mean he thinks windows is a good model of an OS. 01:30:36 ehird, good point 01:30:46 and it doesn't mean that by not suggesting something better, he thinks it's good 01:31:24 ehird: Modern CS did not produce Java. 01:31:33 Modern "software engineering" produced Java. 01:31:51 pikhq: If you think they differ outside of the very best institutions then you're blind... 01:31:51 ehird, doing nothing about it won't make it better 01:32:00 thus, consent by slience? ~ 01:32:09 silence* 01:32:17 ehird: It's a result of much software engineering getting labeled as computer science that you say that. 01:32:30 clearly this could be taken into a communist discussion 01:32:32 if I wanted 01:32:34 When, in fact, the two are about as different as calculation and mathematics. 01:32:36 but too tired 01:32:47 pikhq: Going by your definition, CS barely exists. 01:32:55 So it does. 01:32:55 something about standing up to the oppression of microsoft 01:32:57 (Only slightly more than the imaginary 0 at the end of 0.9 recurring.) 01:32:58 ehird, ^ 01:33:10 AnMaster: Consent by silence? brb, rapefest โ†’ 01:33:31 ehird, hah :P 01:33:32 ehird: Yes, "computer science" as I consider it is a field of mathematics. 01:33:52 Anyway, then, CS didn't produce filesystems. 01:33:57 He was referring to CS people as liking filesystems. 01:34:07 So, your definition of CS isn't the one he was using, at least, so I will not use it wrt him. 01:34:15 Fair enough. 01:34:25 The modern CS that likes filesystems is insane; although K is showing that at least filesystems may not be inherently insane. 01:34:26 well, who produced file systems then 01:34:34 Satan. 01:34:45 ehird, thought you weren't religious? 01:35:03 Yes, well, I cannot think of any other explanation. 01:35:08 Maybe Russell's Teapot dunnit. 01:35:25 ehird, hm... evil teapot overlord? 01:35:34 Yes. 01:35:35 I think you may be on to something 01:35:41 peatot 01:35:41 better be careful 01:35:50 Flying Spaghetti Monster is a NWO Illuminati conspiracy ! 01:35:52 I'll just say that filesystems are not a UNIX invention. 01:35:55 i mean peetot 01:35:58 Russell's Teapot is what "They" don't want you to know about 01:36:00 least you will suddenly be visited by SNMP Men in Black 01:36:03 ehird, ! 01:36:08 Read more about the reptilian teapot conspiracy>>> 01:36:15 Click Here 01:36:20 (SORRY FOR THAT PUN!) 01:36:24 ehird, ? 01:36:25 what 01:36:34 that doesn't even look like a link 01:36:48 Erm... is italics. 01:36:51 I was joking because of the . 01:36:52 Actually, who *did* invent filesystems? 01:36:58 The conspiracists websites are uh, bad 01:37:20 anywya, did ANYONE get my pun above 01:37:21 :/ 01:37:36 i didn't 01:37:53 I'm still not sure, but apparently Ritchie invented the *hierarchical* filesystem. 01:38:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_information_base http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_In_Black 01:38:07 TLA collision 01:38:20 right, thought it'd be something like that 01:39:13 AnMaster: Task Load Automation? 01:39:31 ehird, did you make that one up just now, or does it actually exist? 01:39:38 WHO KNOWS 01:39:45 heh 01:39:49 IBM. IBM invented filesystems. 01:39:52 That explains so much. 01:40:18 oh my 01:40:20 indeed it does 01:40:27 pikhq, at least it wasn't Sun 01:40:31 then it would be even worse 01:40:37 AnMaster: Sun is a UNIX vendor. 01:40:44 Sun are slightly more sane... in that they've always emphasised the network. 01:40:45 That's the first thing they did. 01:40:59 pikhq, see sun XML files 01:41:00 as in 01:41:03 So. It's not likely that they'd invent filesystems in general. 01:41:10 those auto generated by virtualbox's configure tools 01:41:56 emphasised the network... hm 01:41:59 in what way? 01:42:11 sec 01:42:40 [[Atkinson [author of hypercard - e] recalled engineers at Apple drawing network schematics in the form of a bunch of boxes linked together. Sun engineers, however, first drew the network's backbone and then hung boxes off of it. It's a critical difference, and he feels it hindered him.]] 01:42:40 http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/commentary/cultofmac/2002/08/54370 01:42:57 and their work on thin clients etc, although i don't like thin clients they were good to explore 01:43:08 hypercard... 01:43:11 oh god... 01:43:13 the nostalgia 01:43:22 Hypercard's pretty neato. 01:43:33 ehird, I only saw "hypercard player" 01:43:34 :/ 01:43:42 I never saw either! 01:43:59 ehird, so tell me. why is it neato 01:44:07 I have no clue how it works 01:44:14 beyond the user interface 01:44:25 in the viewer only app 01:44:31 Eh, read the article, but. 01:44:46 It was sort of like a database and sort of like hypertext 01:44:48 too *late* didn't read 01:44:49 and sort of like a collection of objects 01:44:51 ;) 01:44:56 and sort of like a programming language with a GUI 01:45:02 and uh stuff 01:45:07 ehird, there were these silly cards 01:45:14 Card = page. 01:45:18 everything seemed based on pages yes 01:45:26 ehird, yes, fixed size iird 01:45:28 iirc* 01:45:35 don't remember details about that though 01:45:38 Yes, well, I never claimed it was perfect. 01:46:02 The Myst computer game franchise, initially released as a HyperCard stack and included bundled with some Macs (for example the Performa 5300), still lives on, making HyperCard a facilitating technology for starting one of the best-selling computer games of all time.[citation needed] 01:46:02 According to Ward Cunningham, the inventor of Wikis, the wiki concept can be traced back to a HyperCard stack he wrote in the late 1980s, making HyperCard one of the grandparents of the Wiki idea.[7][8][9] 01:46:06 haha, Myst was originally in hypercard? 01:46:27 Is http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=206 supposed to be difficult? 01:46:32 ehird, yes it was 01:46:40 ehird, so not fixed size I guess 01:46:43 Sgeo: did your script take more than 1 minute to run? 01:46:52 AnMaster: why do you say that? 01:46:57 * Sgeo didn't try it yet, but it looks like it's easy to bruteforce 01:46:58 ehird, ? 01:47:06 [01:46] AnMaster: ehird, so not fixed size I guess 01:47:07 ehird, because myst runs full screen 01:47:13 ehird, that's why 01:47:16 ... they didn't say released 01:47:24 ehird, eh? 01:47:26 .............. 01:47:40 ehird, yes it is a hyercard stack on the cd 01:47:41 I checked 01:47:46 I remember that now 01:47:48 huh 01:47:54 I was a bit surprised when I found it out 01:47:59 several years ago 01:48:06 The original Macintosh version of Myst was constructed in HyperCard. Each Age was a unique HyperCard stack. Navigation was handled by the internal button system and HyperTalk scripts, with image and QuickTime movie display passed off to various plugins; essentially, Myst functions as a series of separate multimedia slides linked together by commands 01:48:12 so it was fixed size, I guess 01:48:28 * pikhq discovers Haiku OS... 01:48:45 ehird, well. I meant fixed size hypercard main window 01:48:47 pikhq, old 01:48:50 They aim to have binary compatibility with BeOS. Because of this, it is built with both GCC 4 and GCC 2. 01:48:51 and not old enough 01:48:54 to be nostalgia 01:48:55 ! 01:48:57 so invalid 01:48:57 Linux: old. 01:49:03 Unix: old. 01:49:06 Computers: old. 01:49:08 Electricity: old. 01:49:08 ehird, well, discovering it I meant 01:49:11 Universe: old. 01:49:14 ehird, what about that "scan vinyl" one 01:49:16 goodbye, cruel world! 01:49:20 you said it was old 01:49:22 and such 01:49:24 when I linked it 01:49:31 your mom is old 01:49:47 ehird, just pointing out you are as inconsistent as I am :P 01:50:01 Mor yum is old. 01:50:13 good answer 01:50:18 as good as any I guess 01:51:05 ehird, ever played myst? 01:51:07 I mean 01:51:09 the original 01:51:15 you said you had it iirc 01:51:19 er no 01:51:38 ehird, pretty sure you said so 01:51:49 ehird, it is well worth playing 01:52:00 sure, it is old by today's standards 01:52:02 but 01:52:03 back then 01:52:09 it was advanced, 256 colour graphics 01:52:14 yes dithered 01:52:17 pre-rendered 01:52:32 and it had a black border around even at 640x480 01:53:36 ehird: You would be amused to note that MULTICS had orthagonal persistence. 01:53:49 orthagonal? is that like orthogonal gonads 01:53:58 multics had everything 01:54:22 Multics implemented a single level store for data access, discarding the clear distinction between files (called segments in Multics) and process memory. The memory of a process consisted solely of segments which were mapped into its address space. To read or write to them, the process simply used normal CPU instructions, and the operating system took care of making sure that all the modifications were saved to disk. In POSIX terminology, it was as if every f 01:54:33 blah blah 01:54:35 So, an actually sane system. 01:54:42 oklopol: try K, you'll like its gui 01:55:40 ehird: is it easy to get on windows :\ 01:55:42 ehird, screenshot 01:55:49 AnMaster: that is not the important part........... 01:55:52 oklopol: very 01:55:55 i mean let's face it, it needs to be easy to install :) 01:56:05 oklopol: http://nsl.com/misc/int/ grab kwin.zip and kdoc.zip 01:56:16 follow kusr.pdf; it introduces everything and the gui and shit 01:56:30 Multics implemented a single level store for data access, discarding the clear distinction between files (called segments in Multics) and process memory. The memory of a process consisted solely of segments which were mapped into its address space. To read or write to them, the process simply used normal CPU instructions, and the operating system took care of making sure that all the modificat 01:56:30 ions were saved to disk. In POSIX terminology, it was as if every 01:56:31 introduces the language se well? 01:56:33 source of quote? 01:56:33 *as well 01:56:36 AnMaster: wikipedia 01:56:37 oklopol: yes 01:56:38 all of it 01:56:39 ah 01:56:44 ehird, what article? 01:56:49 MULTICS? 01:56:50 AnMaster: multics. 01:57:11 oklopol: a lot of it is similar to j, 'cept not so many mathematical functions 01:57:20 btw the awesome stuff about the gui comes a bit after the start 01:57:29 but you literally show objects directly 01:57:35 and they have metaattributes controlling how they're showed 01:57:40 and they all autoupdate when they change anywhere 01:57:50 that sounds sexy 01:58:18 it is 01:58:29 oklopol: and gui code is ridiculously short in it 01:58:37 i mean, it's literally as easy to code a gui as to code a console app in another lang 02:00:43 ehird, how hard is it to code a console app in it then 02:00:55 i don't even know if there is a print function 02:00:56 doesn't matter 02:01:00 no point 02:01:24 the gui mode lis beautiful 02:01:27 *is 02:01:51 -!- Leonidas has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:01:58 ehird, what about layout and such 02:02:00 in windows 02:02:03 yep 02:02:04 -!- Leonidas has joined. 02:02:06 it does it all 02:02:13 ehird, it makes it look good 02:02:14 elegantly and without introducing new concepts 02:02:18 ? 02:02:23 AnMaster: well the widgets themselves aren't terribly pretty, but 02:02:31 without you having to tell how they should line up 02:02:32 like 02:02:36 a form 02:02:38 http://nsl.com/papers/life/o001.png 02:02:44 AnMaster: yes. 02:03:00 ok 02:03:01 night 02:08:14 ehird: k doesn't have bignums? 02:08:23 dunno 02:08:23 might 02:08:31 doesn't have by default i think 02:08:32 nor does J. 02:08:40 huh? 02:08:48 j602 does 02:09:01 nope 02:09:17 oklopol: 02:09:17 1e306*1e306 02:09:18 _ 02:09:38 eh lol yes i'm an idiot 02:12:06 -!- iano has quit. 02:12:52 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 02:14:25 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:14:49 -!- Leonidas has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:14:52 -!- Leonidas has joined. 02:16:18 -!- Sneezle_ has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 02:21:26 -!- jix has joined. 02:34:07 oklopol: like it? 02:34:34 i haven't played with it that much yet 02:34:45 i'm wasting my time in many other ways as well 02:34:47 atm 02:38:15 * Sgeo slaps himself for a stupid off-by-one error 02:38:51 * Sgeo accidentally counted 1 as a prime 02:39:23 * oerjan swats Sgeo -----### 02:39:30 DON'T DO THAT 02:40:27 Also, it may have taken 2 min to come up with an answer, and in the thread, I'm seeing answers determined in seconds 02:40:39 anything over 1m means you failed. 02:40:44 I know 02:42:58 -!- coppro has joined. 02:47:10 * Sgeo really needs to start timing his scripts 02:47:14 -!- ehird has quit. 02:50:11 thai ming is of the essence 03:03:57 * coppro can't believe he's doing what he's doing 03:05:31 you wicked, wicked man 03:05:45 PUT YOUR PANTS ON MISTER 03:05:55 oerjan: indeed 03:06:06 reinstalling every package on my computer is sure to cause headaches 03:13:43 coppro, why are you doing it? 03:15:21 Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct 03:16:07 Ah 03:17:32 since clearly the FS scan was insufficient 03:18:46 it's probably due to radioactivity. check your house for radon pollution. 03:19:35 No, no, no. Don't listen to that fool. 03:19:42 It is *definitely* due to radioactivity. 03:19:46 Evacuate the country. 03:19:52 Possibly also the continent. 03:20:05 You mean the solar system. 03:20:06 If you want to be really sure, move to the moon. 03:20:21 oerjan: I'd believe that if the Windows partition were showing any signs of instability 03:20:26 oerjan: I should have specified. 03:20:42 oerjan: The Moon, after sending it to Alpha Centauri. 03:20:48 ah yes. 03:21:57 that'll only keep us safe for four years or so, though. 03:22:09 Though it might be safer to move it out of the galaxy. 03:22:22 yes, that may be best. 03:22:48 if this doesn't work, what do you think I should try? Probably not a hardware issue (see: Windows) though I rarely use Windows in a taxing manner 03:23:02 it's not a drivers issue; I've tried with older kernels and it's still unstable 03:24:15 try reversing the polarity. 03:24:30 I know! I'll try logarithms! 03:24:48 naturally. 03:25:15 Fix. Everything. 03:27:57 pikhq: currently trying 03:28:15 coppro: No, I mean logarithms fix everything. 03:28:24 oh 03:28:35 except they are bad for passing yourself off as an engineer 03:29:02 is coppro's thing keeping to the issue no matter how little others actually contribute except for puns and jokes 03:29:18 i find it entertaining 03:29:18 why so it seems 03:29:56 yes, I appear to make the bizarre assumption that a conversation will stay ontopic 03:30:06 really, what am I thinking? 03:30:32 i recall a conversation that stayed ontopic once. i think it was back in '96 or so... 03:31:04 it's only a vague recall, as usual. 03:31:17 i mean "it might be radioactive" "no, i don't think so, windows isn't affected" ... "reorganize solar system!" "what if that doesn't work, drivers blah blah" 03:31:43 that's just great stuff, i'm a copprophiliac already 03:32:24 * coppro wonders if that would be funnier if he didn't get the joke 03:32:25 anyway do continue 03:32:29 i'll get some cheese 03:32:35 coppro: no 03:32:39 coppro: mostly it was not a joke 03:32:49 oklopol: the "copprophiliac" line 03:33:36 i just wanted to mention i appreciated your way of conversing with lunatics, that line was just security by obscurity 03:33:44 -!- calamari has joined. 03:33:52 eek, a squid 03:34:02 SWAT IT DEAD 03:34:19 quick! grab a deep-fryer! 03:34:21 wait, calamari's are a bit bigger than fireflies maybe 03:34:29 yeah that'd be better 03:34:31 but but i might get ink on the swatter! 03:34:37 he does have a frying pan 03:34:44 oh right 03:34:48 used it a lot before the swatter 03:35:13 i think the swatter was first. well, the first swatter. 03:35:35 well i just assumed because the swatter is the most recent thingie 03:35:45 i mean. 03:35:49 the one you use currently 03:36:04 the deep-fryer isn't for swatting :( 03:36:14 wait it's not a frying pan, it's a sauce pan 03:36:14 squid taste good :) 03:37:14 i'm afraid i have nothing deep, it won't fit on a line 03:38:41 _/ด!__!`\_ 03:39:06 what the heck is that 03:39:20 oklopol doing pushups? 03:39:26 well i'm guessing it's some sorta spider 03:39:28 oh dear god no 03:39:46 hi :) 03:39:55 argh, it speaks! 03:40:09 hi calamari 03:40:22 in my absense I see I've been swatted, fried, and deep-fried 03:40:25 Calamari liveth? 03:40:59 calamari: well what do you expect, having been idle for over 5 minutes 03:41:40 it liveth without a liver! 03:41:51 calamari: impressive. Usually swatting alone is good to remove a squid's self-awareness, but you seem to have even noticed the deep-frying! 03:43:53 Hm 03:45:28 hindley-milner 03:47:06 ford-fulkerson 03:47:34 -!- Mnemosyne has joined. 03:47:37 howdy 03:47:43 hi 03:47:52 we're playing name an algo 03:47:54 oklopol: i see you are going with the flow 03:48:02 oooh, me, me! 03:48:23 oerjan: i see you can infer a lot from what i'm typing. 03:48:33 Sieve of Eratosthenes 03:49:04 old! 03:49:20 genetic Grover's algorithm 03:49:25 Whoops 03:49:33 *Grover's algorithm 03:50:00 Burrows-Wheeler transformation 03:50:16 :o 03:50:17 Huffman coding 03:50:24 karatsuba 03:50:38 RLE and VLE 03:50:50 Vector Quantinization 03:50:56 eek what have i started 03:51:00 *Quantization 03:51:07 want me to stop? 03:51:10 :D 03:51:21 you seem to know your algos 03:51:25 oh yeah 03:51:27 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:51:51 anyhoo 03:52:01 i have no idea what the things after RLE are 03:52:17 oh run-length right 03:52:29 guess i know vle too, then 03:53:05 yeah 03:53:29 wonderful compression algo for monochrome displays 03:53:33 anyways... 03:53:55 about the topic: I just wiktionaried the phrase 03:54:05 odd topic for the #esoteric channel, a bit, eh? 03:54:58 wiktionaried what phrase 03:56:50 also i know vector quantization too, at least a lot of the algorithms used for it 03:57:03 -!- oerjan has set topic: Moist by eir own custard | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 03:57:14 but, grover's algo i don't know the details of, so i'll count this as your win 03:58:17 http://codu.org/plof/plof3.pdf 03:59:54 plof! 04:10:13 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:12:44 what's the story behind the esolangs.org triple-lime logo? 04:15:47 I think it's pretty self-explanatory. 04:16:35 >_> 04:19:13 it is? 04:19:34 I guess I'm ignorant 04:19:37 what's the meaning? 04:20:56 `quote gregor 04:21:10 `cat bin/quote 04:21:12 #!/bin/bash \ DB="sqlite3 quotes/quote.db" \ \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ ARG=$1 \ ID=$((ARG+0)) \ if [ "$ID" = "$ARG" ] \ then \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE id='$ID \ else \ ARG=`echo "$ARG" | sed 's/'\''/'\'\''/g'` \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE quote LIKE 04:21:13 18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 70| Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. 04:21:34 huh? 04:21:59 why the heck did HackEgo give those two quotes? 04:22:11 oh wait 04:22:24 the first command actually worked, just slowly 04:23:44 hah 04:23:59 pikhq's quote was made possible by me :D 04:24:32 also, i suspect it brings some light to the current discussion 04:24:44 heh? 04:25:16 <_< 04:25:29 stretching legs -> 04:25:49 so, what's the history behind the logo? 04:26:27 -!- immibis has joined. 04:30:24 `quote fires 04:30:25 18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 04:32:02 `run uname -r 04:32:03 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 04:34:56 `run man cd 04:34:57 No output. 04:35:00 damn 04:35:11 I was hoping for spam 04:35:27 `quote 04:35:28 13|* ehird has joined #lobby hmmm clean me 04:36:11 `help 04:36:12 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 04:37:02 `run echo $PATH 04:37:03 /tmp/hackenv.22293/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 04:37:17 ooh, this is fun 04:37:27 `run ls 04:37:28 1 \ bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22334 04:37:49 `run rm bin 04:37:50 No output. 04:37:57 `run rm 1 04:37:58 No output. 04:38:02 `run rm paste 04:38:03 No output. 04:38:18 `run cd bin 04:38:19 No output. 04:38:25 `run ls 04:38:26 bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.22551 04:38:29 wow. 04:40:26 -!- mycroftiv has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:43:19 Mnemosyne: you cannot remove a directory with plain rm 04:43:40 I'm a gnu/linux noob 04:43:42 :D 04:43:54 I'm so used to Mac 04:44:14 `rm -rf bin 04:44:14 No output. 04:44:20 `run rm -rf bin 2>&1 04:44:21 /bin/rm: cannot remove `bin': Function not implemented 04:44:29 `run rm -rf paste 2>&1 04:44:30 /bin/rm: cannot remove `paste': Function not implemented 04:45:22 what's the purpose of `fetch? 04:45:30 `run wget 2>&1 04:45:30 wget: missing URL \ Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... \ \ Try `wget --help' for more options. 04:45:33 `run gcc 2>&1 04:45:34 gcc: no input files 04:45:50 Mnemosyne: fetching urls 04:45:54 `run (wget http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092; gcc 5092 -o 5092.out; ./5092.out) 2>&1 04:45:55 --2009-08-16 03:45:54-- http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092 \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden \ 2009-08-16 03:45:54 ERROR 403: Forbidden. \ \ gcc: 5092: No such file or directory \ gcc: no input files \ /bin/bash: line 1: ./5092.out: No such file or directory 04:46:11 I love milw0rm! 04:46:20 thats the vmsplice exploit 04:46:42 lawls! 04:46:44 jessica_biel_naked_in_my_bed.c 04:46:57 you cannot do network access other than with fetch, i think 04:47:46 Has "gotta" made it into dictionaries yet? 04:47:50 Is it marked "slang"? 04:48:28 nope. same reason 'gunna' and 'wanna' haven't made it in. 04:49:09 Because prescriptivist bastards rule the dictionaries? :P 04:50:20 `run nc 2>&1 04:50:20 Cmd line: wrong 04:50:24 ????? 04:50:25 wtf? 04:50:36 `run nc www.milw0rm.org 80 2>&1 04:50:37 www.milw0rm.org: forward host lookup failed: Host name lookup failure : No such file or directory 04:50:38 That's what netcat outputs. 04:50:42 ok 04:50:51 it seems like a stupid error message though, "Cmd line: wrong" 04:51:01 And you can only access the network through an HTTP proxy. 04:56:05 immibis: nc is a very minimalist program. 04:56:27 Also, socat is better in literally every way :P 04:56:43 Except for 'ease of use'. 04:57:17 EASE OF USE IS FOR PUSSIES 04:57:21 Though socat's interface is hard to use simply because socat can do a *lot*. 04:58:09 Encrypted VPNs, for example. 04:58:19 `run (echo CONNECT www.milw0rm.org:80 HTTP/1.1; echo Host: 127.0.0.1; echo) | nc 127.0.0.1 3128 2>&1 04:58:19 HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden 04:58:31 `run (echo CONNECT 127.0.0.1:3128 HTTP/1.1; echo Host: 127.0.0.1; echo) | nc 127.0.0.1 3128 2>&1 04:58:31 HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden 04:58:35 `run cat fetch 04:58:36 No output. 04:58:41 `ls 04:58:42 bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.23268 04:58:47 `ls bin 04:58:47 addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 04:58:56 Fetch is a special command, it doesn't exist in the filesystem. 04:59:03 `help fetch 04:59:03 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 04:59:20 `fetch http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092 04:59:21 2009-08-16 03:59:21 URL:http://www.milw0rm.org/exploits/5092 [7197/7197] -> "5092" [1] 04:59:35 `run gcc 5092 -o 5092.out 04:59:36 No output. 04:59:41 `run ./5092.out 04:59:42 No output. 04:59:46 `run ./5092.out 2>&1 04:59:47 /bin/bash: line 1: ./5092.out: No such file or directory 04:59:51 `run gcc 5092 -o 5092.out 2>&1 04:59:52 /usr/bin/ld:5092: file format not recognized; treating as linker script \ /usr/bin/ld:5092:1: syntax error \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status 05:00:00 `run mv 5092 5092.c 05:00:00 No output. 05:00:05 `run gcc 5092.c -o 5092 2>&1 05:00:08 5092.c:1: error: expected identifier or '(' before '<' token \ 5092.c:1:33: error: too many decimal points in number \ 5092.c:1:42: error: too many decimal points in number \ 5092.c:20:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or \ 5092.c:21:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or \ 5092.c:22:10: error: #include 05:00:13 ....... 05:00:15 socat -T 1 -d -d TCP-L:10081,reuseaddr,fork,crlf SYSTEM:"echo -e \"\\\"HTTP/1.0 200 OK\\\nDocumentType: text/plain\\\n\\\ndate: \$\(date\)\\\nserver:\$SOCAT_SOCKADDR:\$SOCAT_SOCKPORT\\\nclient: \$SOCAT_PEERADDR:\$SOCAT_PEERPORT\\\n\\\"\"; cat; echo -e \"\\\"\\\n\\\"\"" 05:00:20 An HTTP server in socat. 05:00:43 immibis: *yawn* 05:00:54 `run sudo 2>&1 05:00:54 /bin/bash: line 1: sudo: command not found 05:01:05 socat can be quite silly. 05:01:28 `file 5092.c 05:01:29 5092.c: HTML document text 05:01:33 immibis: Dumbass :P 05:02:25 Besides which, that exploit won't work. 05:02:41 2.6.26 doesn't have the vmsplice bug. 05:02:59 `run su 2>&1 05:03:00 su: must be run from a terminal 05:03:11 `run ls / 05:03:11 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr 05:03:12 `run pwd 05:03:13 /tmp/hackenv.24453 05:03:16 `run ls /dev 05:03:16 null 05:03:20 immibis: Yeah, I give sudo access to HackEgo :P 05:03:23 `run ls /etc 05:03:23 alternatives 05:03:26 `run ls /home 05:03:27 hackbot 05:03:31 is this a vm? 05:03:38 immibis: It's magic. 05:04:14 `run which ls 05:04:15 /bin/ls 05:04:22 `run cat /dev/zero 05:04:23 No output. 05:04:26 `run cat /dev/null 2>&1 05:04:27 No output. 05:04:32 `run cat /dev/zero 2>&1 05:04:33 /bin/cat: /dev/zero: No such file or directory 05:04:40 `run mount 05:04:41 rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ none on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec) \ none on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec) \ udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,size=10240k,mode=755) \ /dev/disk/by-label/PRGMRDISK1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered) \ tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,mode=755) 05:04:44 `run who 05:04:46 No output. 05:04:55 ZOMG NOBODY IS LOGGED IN 05:05:16 `run find 2>&1 05:05:17 . \ /usr/bin/find: `.': Function not implemented 05:05:23 function not implemented? 05:05:41 That's the magic. 05:06:06 Mmm, ldpreload. 05:06:44 Bleh, now immibis is going to statically compile something in some naive attempt at being tricky, and we'll have to wait while 'e figures out that that doesn't work X_X 05:07:10 `echo $LD_PRELOAD 05:07:10 $LD_PRELOAD 05:07:14 `run echo $LD_PRELOAD 05:07:14 No output. 05:07:18 `run echo $LD_PRELOAD 2>&1 05:07:19 No output. 05:07:21 `run set 2>&1 05:07:22 BASH=/bin/bash \ BASH_ARGC=() \ BASH_ARGV=() \ BASH_LINENO=() \ BASH_SOURCE=() \ BASH_VERSINFO=([0]="3" [1]="2" [2]="48" [3]="1" [4]="release" [5]="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu") \ BASH_VERSION='3.2.48(1)-release' \ CONSOLE=/dev/console \ DIRSTACK=() \ EUID=1885202 \ GROUPS=() \ HACKENV=/tmp/hackenv.25091 \ HACKHG=/tmp/hackenv.hg.25091 05:07:32 It's not actually an ld preload, pikhq was slightly confused, it's a hacked up libc. 05:07:39 (Amongst other things) 05:09:22 Ah, right. 05:09:41 It gets you roughly the same effect, without the ability to just use a static binary. 05:20:15 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:21:29 -!- oklofok has joined. 05:26:42 -!- jix has joined. 05:38:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:39:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:39:42 -!- Pthing has joined. 05:42:28 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:47:33 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 05:52:42 -!- Leonidas has joined. 06:07:14 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 06:08:37 -!- Mnemosyne has quit ("help"). 06:08:39 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 06:17:56 G'night all 06:20:15 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:21:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:59:14 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:11:27 "An html element's end tag may be omitted if the html element is not immediately followed by a comment." <-- How do place a comment after an omitted end-tag? 08:18:21 that's why it says you can't 08:20:48 err.. wait. Those rules are probably for generating HTML5 code, from some object model. 08:21:19 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#syntax 08:27:28 -!- augur has quit ("Leaving..."). 08:35:01 Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct <-- just check the checksums against packages, instead of reinstalling 08:44:22 hm he left 08:44:30 anyone know if he do log reading+ 08:44:33 s/+/?/ 08:46:03 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:57:51 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:58:47 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 08:59:49 -!- immibis_ has joined. 09:09:26 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:16:15 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:23:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:36:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:37:46 -!- jix has joined. 09:46:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:46:57 -!- Deewiant has quit ("Viivan loppu."). 09:47:28 -!- Deewiant has joined. 09:47:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:48:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:53:11 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:53:15 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:54:27 -!- coppro has joined. 09:54:54 so... good news, bad news, and more good news in my inane ramblings about trying to fix my computer at... oh dear, it's 3 am already 09:55:47 good news is, I'm now pretty convinced it's a software bug that the reinstall should fix 09:55:59 bad news is, I managed to get my computer stuck halfway through configuration of hal 09:56:16 just make sure you don't get eaten by sharks 09:56:23 good news is, I figured out how to convince it to work from a livecd; though I've no clue how well that will interact with various automatic configuration of kernel modules, etc. 09:56:43 also, 3am may not be a good time to attempt that sort of thing 09:58:27 indeed 09:58:49 unfortunately, I need to get this computer fixed by morning :/ 09:59:03 was it working before you started? 09:59:07 not really 09:59:13 now it's /really/ not working 10:00:08 it was in random crash mode previously; now it's in can't boot mode... this isn't even as bad as the time I switched my filesystems to ext4 without making sure the kernel had ext4 enabled 10:00:15 *is worse than the time 10:03:37 if this doesn't work, I think I'll just reinstall, which won't be pleasant 10:04:08 hmm... is there any way to get dpkg to list all the configuration files that have been modif... wait, I'm doing a complete reinstall, that should catch 'em 10:06:18 -!- immibis_ has quit ("Some folks are wise, and some otherwise."). 10:08:00 * coppro tries to think of anything installed recently that might be causing instability... 10:13:00 hrm... /me spies a potential problem 10:13:02 Sgeo: my system's become increasingly unstable. I want to rule out FS/disk corruption, which means I did a badblocks scan, and now need to make sure all the system files are correct <-- just check the checksums against packages, instead of reinstalling 10:13:19 seems you didn't do log reading 10:13:28 anyway, there are scripts to verify all files from all packages 10:13:35 for most linux distros 10:13:48 AnMaster: too late for that, and all the scripts I could find only check that they are there, not for integrity :/ 10:13:59 coppro, well, what distro 10:14:02 Ubuntu 10:14:05 there is definitely one for ubuntu 10:14:06 which implies Debian 10:14:08 tiger iirc 10:14:18 well, tiger checks more than that 10:14:26 it checks that configuration is secure and what not 10:14:45 * coppro desparately hopes that the kernel module configuration scripts still work without /proc mounted 10:14:47 but amongst other things it verifies checksums of all files 10:14:54 coppro, probably not 10:14:57 why not mount proc 10:14:59 it is simple 10:15:04 mount -t proc proc /proc 10:15:08 (as root) 10:15:11 AnMaster: it's the wrong /proc 10:15:15 I'm running from livecd 10:15:22 coppro, just bind mount it 10:15:29 or mount it as /chroot/proc 10:15:31 or whatever 10:15:38 AnMaster: no, that's not the problem 10:15:45 no? 10:15:49 the problem is that the proc would be incorrect 10:16:01 incorrect in what aspect 10:16:10 paths are adjusted iirc in /proc/mounts and such 10:16:24 it's grepping for modules; the modules loaded in the livecd and in my computer do not necessarily have the same modules 10:17:10 coppro, well, the modules loaded by the livecd should probably contain those that are needed to make your computer boot 10:17:18 amongst more 10:17:23 yes, and if it doesn't boot this time, I will try that 10:17:54 but I don't think it's really important, modules should be picked from /etc when the init image is generated 10:18:00 (e.g. there's a conffile) 10:23:12 if this fixes the system instability, I'd even be willing to give it another go without crashes if I need to to fix the configuration 10:23:30 but yuk 10:23:51 coppro, how is it unstable 10:23:52 as in 10:23:57 what exactly is happening 10:23:58 random CPU lockup 10:24:04 coppro, any backtraces? 10:24:07 oopses? 10:24:11 nope 10:24:28 coppro, try running without X so you can see any OOPS the kernel is printing to the terminal 10:24:29 or 10:24:36 connect a serial console 10:24:39 if you have a serial port 10:24:49 or firewire console if you have a firewire port 10:27:04 coppro, ร… 10:27:08 s/ร…/^/ 10:28:20 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:43:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 10:44:59 hmm... it seems that someone sued Microsoft over an XML-related patent, and they've been banned from selling Word in the US 10:45:11 although, it shouldn't take them too long to modify it to get around the patent 10:54:57 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:10:55 ais523, link 11:11:03 also they would have to recall all cds and such 11:11:20 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136539/Injunction_on_Microsoft_Word_unlikely_to_halt_sales 11:11:29 apparently it doesn't apply to ones they've already sold 11:12:08 "that let people create custom XML documents, according to i4i" 11:12:09 err 11:12:13 what on earth is the patent about 11:12:17 text editor? 11:12:34 who knows, patents are generally unfathomable 11:14:22 ais523, well, software patents are yes 11:14:28 originally they did serve a purpose 11:14:59 I mean, hard to read 11:15:04 like when someone invented a better steam engine, they could sell it alone for a few years, to get the costs for inventing back... but nowdays it seems quite far from that ideal 11:15:05 no matter whether they're about software or not 11:15:39 ais523, again: not originally 11:15:56 yep, I suppose they got harder to read over time 11:16:02 as obfuscation lawyers got involved 11:16:31 ais523, heh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_patent_law#Ancient_Greece 11:20:10 ais523, any idea how to do console over firewire in linux? 11:20:15 no 11:20:16 I know it is possible 11:20:19 just not how 11:28:06 If you just want the kernel printk logging over firewire, IP over 1394 and netconsole over that should work. I don't know about bidirectional serial-console style of stuff; doesn't sound so very useful, since you could just run IP and telnet/ssh over it. 11:28:33 (Back at home now.) 11:45:09 fizzie, heh 11:45:19 fizzie, there is gdb over firewire support too 11:46:08 fizzie, however it is useful, since only case I would use a firewire console would be when I couldn't get in by ssh 11:46:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:46:19 like, say, ssh crashed on a headless system 11:46:38 or network scripts are broken 11:48:10 No serial ports, then? I guess they're so out-of-fashion nowadays. 11:52:12 fizzie, indeed 11:52:31 well, some of my computers have serial 11:52:42 50% in fact 11:53:06 0% of my laptops, and 100% of my non-laptops 11:53:26 this includes only working computers 11:54:17 otherwise 3/5 of the computers have serial ports. Between them they would have 5 serial ports. 11:54:39 two of my computers have firewire, between them having three firewire ports 11:54:44 so how many computers do I have ;P 11:54:58 (if you can even calculate that from the data above) 11:54:59 fizzie, ^ 12:05:04 tl;dr, to be honest. 12:05:09 fizzie, heh 12:05:12 Was busy mopping up cat puke. 12:06:00 ouch 12:15:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:23:41 fun, same printer reported as two different ones, it changes every other time 12:24:08 as in, reported as hp:/usb/PSC_2170_Series?serial=XXXXXXXX sometimes 12:24:29 or hal:/some-long-string sometimes 12:42:30 Meh: /usr/lib/googleearth/googleearth-bin: symbol lookup error: libssl.so.0.9.8: undefined symbol: EVP_idea_cbc 12:42:58 I guess it still must be something about IDEA patents. 12:44:22 There's a very confused Ubuntu bug report about it though. 12:45:26 The workaround there worked, though, which was nice. 12:47:22 Too bad google-earth displays no image, just a dark-grey window. 12:55:24 fizzie, last version? 12:56:53 Yes. 12:58:04 Installing nvidia-glx-ia32 made it work, though. 12:58:50 Except it gets confused if I make it a floating window. Works when tiled. That's not so common. 13:02:24 I thought this thing has some sort of kml-editing facilities, though. I have a pretty broken GPS track (16 separate segments, I need to join them, move and delete some points, and so on) which needs some manual editing, and I thought google-earth would have the best map background for that. 13:05:50 Whoa; last I looked (okay, years ago) the "3d buildings" view had pretty much nothing except few landmarks. 13:06:06 Now it seems pretty much complete city centre of Helsinki's been 3d-modelled. 13:08:03 Not very far outwards, though. 13:08:17 are all the humans modeled as well 13:09:04 otherwise it's just a sad old ghost town 13:09:29 No humans there. 13:10:29 well you model like a stick figure with a big smile and put it there 13:10:54 Nokia's headquarters are flat, but the nearby Kone and Fortum buildings are there. 13:10:55 well. i guess she'd be pretty lonely 13:13:24 The coal power plant started glowing blue when I moused over it, that was a bit disturbing. Turns out there was just an info-box about it available, and not that I was making it overload and soon-explode with google-earthifying around. 13:24:34 Oh right, it had this really crazy UI; you have to open the "properties" dialog for the path, and that's what makes the path nodes editable. I guess I can use it after all. 14:21:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:28:51 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 14:44:02 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 14:49:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:07:06 fizzie, better idea would connecting it to the flight sim thingy 15:07:40 Phew, got a reasonably coherent walk out of those points: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http:%2F%2Fzem.fi%2F~fis%2Ftest4b.kml&ie=UTF8&z=15 15:08:02 as in... require you to fly in certain ways between points to edit them or so 15:08:31 fizzie, "We could not understand the location http://zem.fi/~fis/test4b.kml" 15:08:33 well 15:08:40 Er, that's strange. 15:08:43 coherent error I guess 15:08:52 fizzie, English google 15:08:56 Yes, yes. 15:09:04 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:09:24 Strange. It should be able to accept a http:// URL to a .kml file; I've been using it a lot to preview those routes. 15:09:28 fizzie, ok, it works if I reload the page twice 15:09:32 Heh. 15:09:49 I'm sure there's some really-ugly-hack -related reason. 15:09:51 fizzie, oh it seems to switch to basic html mode 15:09:58 automatically 15:10:00 unknown why 15:10:08 scripts *are* enabled 15:11:01 fizzie, odd walk 15:11:06 sure it was the shortest path? 15:12:05 We had two hours to kill before our restaurant reservation. 15:12:13 damn, it is sure hard to read the map on this high DPI monitor 15:12:27 fizzie, "we? 15:12:40 s/e\?/e"?/ 15:13:22 Myself and my wife; that's I guess my default "we". Anyway, should gpscorrelate the photos on the path too, but first have to pick out the sensible ones. 15:13:22 fizzie, which end is the start and which is the stop 15:14:01 It starts from Norra esplanaden and ends there in Petersgatan, if your map is displaying the street labels in the same language than this one here. 15:14:09 * AnMaster tries to imagine fizzie being married. 15:14:12 * AnMaster fails 15:14:49 The black toilet paper hotel was there right next to Hotel Kรคmp, which seems to be marked on the map. 15:14:51 you seemed like such a good example of guy at university, who might have a gf, but definitely not a wife. heh 15:16:20 fizzie, the target was at Petersgatan? 15:16:37 AnMaster: http://www.central.fi/?deptid=281&languageid=8 15:17:04 The line ends approximately there. 15:17:24 fizzie, got a bit confused when you crossed your previous path 15:18:01 There's a bit of crisscrossing, the main point was to look at the nice houses there on Huvilakatu (Villagatan). 15:18:07 * AnMaster wonders why google earth displays it in miles 15:18:18 It's actually a flag in the .kml file. 15:18:36 katu = gata? 15:18:41 I forgot to tell gpsbabel "-f kml,units=m". 15:18:42 Yes. 15:18:58 fizzie, ready to reload it when you are 15:19:02 Er, and it's "-o kml,units=m". 15:19:11 Just a second. Well, several seconds. 15:19:13 heh 15:19:24 fizzie, or just tell me how long the walk was 15:19:47 It's there now as test4c.kml -- I've had some problems getting browsers to reload the .kml file itself. 15:19:51 About 6 km, I guess. 15:20:08 google says so indeed 15:20:29 fizzie, anyway I can't really see it on laptop, remember my laptop has a ~129 DPI screemn 15:20:31 screen* 15:20:43 on the 96 DPI desktop it is easier 15:21:21 The altitude numbers might actually be correct this time, since the trip through kml and Google Earth had the "clamp to ground level" flag on, so it's possible that it has used Google's height data to reset the altitude information in the points. 15:23:40 Even 36 metres sounds a bit overdoing it, it's pretty flat terrain. 15:24:58 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:25:13 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:25:54 Hey, what the foo. 15:26:10 The editing in Google Earth has removed the timestamps from the points. 15:28:19 I guess it makes some sort of sense, but it makes that track really useless for photo-correlating. Mehbleh. 15:45:38 Heh, "Max Speed 55.3 km/hour". That's quite a walking speed. 15:47:24 -!- Sneezle has joined. 15:48:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:12:24 -!- ehird has joined. 16:16:01 fizzie, how did it calculate THAT? 16:16:43 fizzie, and why did it need editing? Filtering out the awkward bits? The visit in some shops you want to keep private? ;P 16:17:58 I tend to take several pictures of the same things. Besides, there are again couple of merge-in-hugin shots from places where the built-in objective just wasn't wide enough. 16:18:01 fizzie, don't the GPS record altitude iirc? 16:18:17 Yes, but the altitude is a lot less reliable than the position. 16:18:22 ah ok 16:18:34 Those numbers did come from the GPS, actually, which might explain their strangeness. 16:18:59 And I guess the 55.3 km/h comes from some place where the gps was confused and did a large jump. Reception was a bit iffy there between all the buildings. 16:19:12 fizzie, is kml a binary format? 16:19:17 XML. 16:19:36 fizzie, then using kompare or similar to merge the timestamps back in shouldn't be TOO hard 16:19:41 Though Google Maps supports a .kmz format too, which I think is just gzipped kml. 16:19:43 04:44:07 M0ny, you mean like for 1800 century tables and so on? 16:19:43 1800 CENTURY?! 16:19:56 * ehird time warps to BOTTOM of that log... 16:20:01 ehird, sorry, Swedishism 16:20:04 Yes, well, I did it with a bit of Perl; the timestamps is where the 55.3 km/h speed came from. 16:20:15 ah 16:20:16 you say that in swedish? 16:20:45 19:22:09 Though it might be safer to move it out of the galaxy. 16:20:45 can't we just migrate to another universe? 16:21:08 oklofok, no, but trying to handle that English is off by one 16:21:12 I mixed it up 16:21:13 as in 16:21:28 20 century -> 1900-2000 16:21:38 and 16:21:42 so what did you mean? 16:21:45 we say "artonhundratalet" 16:21:46 19th century? 16:21:47 in Swedish 16:21:51 which 16:21:56 yeah, that's not "1800th century" 16:22:18 ehird was pointing out the 1800th century i quite a bit in the future 16:22:22 means "the eightteen hundred number" literally 16:22:27 i know what it means 16:22:31 as for "the number" bit, no clue 16:22:37 it sounds odd in English 16:22:55 in english, you call centuries centuries 16:22:59 oklofok, well, obviously this is a retcon to hide that I *actually* was time travelling 16:23:03 I see I couldn't fool you 16:23:15 AnMaster: or ehird 16:23:22 indeed 16:23:23 damn 16:23:54 * AnMaster curses iptables 16:24:00 for some reason the -m limit 16:24:02 doesn't work 16:24:07 to provide rate limiting 16:24:12 19:34:21 wait, calamari's are a bit bigger than fireflies maybe 16:24:16 calamari's 16:24:20 even using an example STRAIGHT from a log 16:24:20 NEENOR NEEEEEEEEENOR 16:24:21 *calamaris 16:24:22 ALARM ALARM 16:24:23 CODE RED 16:24:27 OKLOPOL ERROR FOUND 16:24:30 CODE RED 16:24:32 ALARM ALARM 16:24:34 :< 16:24:34 NEENOR NEEEEEEEEENOR 16:24:36 okay situation over 16:24:41 :P 16:24:42 just be calm and relax 16:24:45 ehird, "NEENOR"? 16:24:49 AnMaster: siren 16:25:12 ehird, isn't that "OOOEEEEEEOOOEEEEEOOOO" 16:25:18 on the other hand... 16:25:43 that's one type of siren 16:26:10 ehird, there is the (say it very quickly) "WEWEWEWEWEW" type too 16:27:31 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:27:34 -!- jix has joined. 16:29:41 19:47:52 we're playing name an algo 16:29:43 Shor's! 16:29:50 hmm, it seems 100 is the maximum amount of processes. 16:29:50 or at least usually when i open the task manager because i can't open any more windows, the count is 100 16:30:06 19:53:55 about the topic: I just wiktionaried the phrase 16:30:06 19:54:05 odd topic for the #esoteric channel, a bit, eh? 16:30:06 it's esoteric because of "eir" 16:30:10 oklofok: on what 16:30:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:30:24 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 16:30:30 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:30:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:30:50 This is quite stunning -- Gecko, using less than 100M. 16:31:07 20:43:40 I'm a gnu/linux noob 16:31:07 20:43:42 :D 16:31:08 20:43:54 I'm so used to Mac 16:31:08 Underpinnings fail. 16:31:08 of course, that's impossible because i actually cannot open any new windows, not even menus, which of course aren't processes 16:31:13 ehird, did PPC based macs use ACPI? 16:31:20 Hooray, LDFLAGS="-Wl,--as-needed" 16:31:21 AnMaster: no idea. 16:31:23 or is it only x86 and ia64 that does 16:32:09 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:32:14 20:56:27 Also, socat is better in literally every way :P 16:32:14 It's infinitely worse due to being very bloated. 16:32:26 I assume he is on Windows 16:32:29 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:32:39 I never *TRIED* 100 windows on windows 16:32:51 Yeah, uh, Windows can open over 100 windows, so no. 16:32:53 but wouldn't surprise me if it didn't handle that 16:33:19 Windows is completely uselessly crippled and no professionals ever get anything done with it because they can't because I dislike it, amirite? 16:36:07 02:44:59 hmm... it seems that someone sued Microsoft over an XML-related patent, and they've been banned from selling Word in the US 16:36:07 02:45:11 although, it shouldn't take them too long to modify it to get around the patent 16:36:07 holy shit stop reading whatever you do, we discussed that about a week ago 16:36:17 also, it's not about XML, dammit 16:36:21 god I hate FUD 16:36:44 it's XML-related in some way 16:37:20 no 16:37:20 it is not 16:37:20 ais523: here is what it is about 16:37:20 out of bound formatting information 16:37:20 instead of hello world 16:37:22 {hello world,{start=N,end=N,bold}} 16:37:28 It's about having an extensible XML schema, IIRC. 16:37:29 using that in XML 16:37:35 pikhq: no it is not ffs 16:37:38 there seem to be two conflicting reports as to what it's about 16:37:46 one says it's extensible schema, the other says it's tag-data separation 16:37:50 ehird: Okay, then. 16:37:52 ais523: the one I am talking about is from people who have actually read the patent. 16:37:58 ehird: Still a fucking retarded patent. 16:38:04 pikhq: duh, all patents are 16:38:11 (i wish there were non-tabloid tech news sites) 16:38:11 my guess is actually there are two different court cases, with two different patents 16:38:16 which is why people are getting muddled 16:38:34 All software patents are. Non-software patents have the *possibility* of being non-retarded. 16:38:44 03:54:44 so how many computers do I have ;P 16:38:45 03:54:17 otherwise 3/5 of the computers have serial ports. Between them they would have 5 serial ports. 16:38:46 5. 16:38:55 fucking god, I can get the limit match to work under older kernels 16:38:59 just not on 2.6.30 16:39:01 * AnMaster sighs 16:39:05 pikhq: no. government-enforced monopolies are never non-retarded. 16:39:16 and I'm too busy to debug that atm 16:39:37 ehird: Government is a government-enforced monopoly. :P 16:40:01 pikhq: s/government/state/ig, technically. 16:40:04 Well, the state. 16:40:06 and state. 16:40:07 respectively 16:40:20 pikhq: but a self-enforcing monopoly... isn't 16:40:29 it's perfectly possible to set up a competing state and overthrow the existing one 16:44:17 5. <-- calculations? 16:44:24 I fail to find how you arrived at the answer 16:44:28 "3/5 of the computers have serial ports". 16:44:32 Three out of five of them. 16:44:36 Therefore, five. 16:44:48 ehird, could be 6 out of 10? 16:44:58 Oh, you meant (3/5)*. 16:45:04 That's not what "3/5 of the computers" means in English. 16:45:20 ehird, three fifths 16:45:51 ehird, what do you mean with the multiplication with the dot there 16:46:15 That dot is also known as a full stop. 16:46:18 ehird, however, it can't be 6 out of 10 for an obvious reason. Five serial ports. 6 computers. Nah 16:46:28 Half a serial port. 16:46:34 ehird, exactly 16:48:16 ehird, what about 6 computers in total 16:48:19 that would mean. uh 16:48:47 4/4ths of the people in this conversation are annoying and pedantic. 16:49:14 3.3 computers having serial ports 16:49:16 I think 16:49:17 GregorR: I DID tell him that that isn't what 3/5 means. 16:49:35 ehird: Yes, thank you for proving my point. 16:49:38 ehird, and I don't see what it would mean INSTEAD 16:49:54 it is just a simplified fraction 16:49:57 as in 16:50:01 simplest form 16:50:09 whatever the English word is for that 16:50:23 Is it safe to say that netbooks are inappropriate for compiling C/C++ code? 16:50:24 it would be as silly as saying "4/8" 16:50:27 when you mean 1/2 16:50:34 Sgeo, no? 16:50:35 AnMaster: It means "There are FIVE and THREE of them". 16:50:36 Sgeo: Nah! 16:50:40 Sgeo: Well, C++, yes. 16:50:41 Sgeo: What processor? 16:50:47 Sgeo, I just compiled on my dual core thinkpad 16:50:51 Sgeo: Anything short of a supercomputer is inappropriate for compiling C++. 16:50:52 AnMaster: .......... 16:50:54 AnMaster: THAT IS NOT A NETBOOK 16:50:58 um 16:51:01 read "notebook" 16:51:03 not "netbook" 16:51:05 SEE 16:51:08 GregorR: Still inappropriate. 16:51:12 THAT IS WHY LAPTOP IS A BETTER WORD 16:51:20 C++ cannot be compiled, you see. 16:51:42 pikhq: Well, it's inappropriate to compile C++ code in the same way that it's inappropriate to walk around downtown totally nude. 16:51:46 pikhq, so all the "so called" compilers are scams? 16:51:47 wow 16:51:48 * Sgeo needs a laptop for school, and want to convince my dad to get something which happens to be appropriate for gaming. Just thinking that if he points towards a netbook, I could say that it's inappropriate for what I need to do. 16:52:16 AnMaster: They compile a subset of C++. 16:52:20 Sgeo: Well, it is 16:52:22 Sgeo: Not big on lying to your family, eh? :P 16:52:23 They're dog slow. 16:52:23 Sgeo, linux I assume? 16:52:34 AnMaster: Yes, he wants to play Tux Racer. 16:52:42 AnMaster, I'm taking C++ classes 16:52:43 ehird, there are more games 16:52:48 lol ehird 16:52:48 ehird, vegastrike, warzone2100 16:52:50 and lots more 16:52:57 but yes tux racer, or one of it's forks 16:52:59 is quite fun 16:53:01 Sgeo: Compiling any non-trivial C++ program will be very tedious; javascripty websites will be dog slow, 16:53:01 for a bit 16:53:03 If I want gaming, I go with Windows. That's my main reason for using Windows, actually 16:53:04 Flash will be painful, ... 16:53:13 Also wine, lest we forget that that not only works but works extraordinarily well. 16:53:18 Sgeo: Besides, they tend to have only 1GB of RAM. 16:53:22 Microsoft actually have rules. 16:53:24 GregorR, indeed 16:53:26 If a netbook is too powerful, 16:53:29 they can't use windows 16:53:34 ehird, eh? 16:53:36 why on earth 16:53:44 AnMaster: money. 16:53:48 Actually, they can't use Windows XP. 16:53:58 pikhq: well, yes 16:53:58 so 16:54:02 but 7 isn't out yet 16:54:06 and vista will be dog slow on them 16:54:07 They can use Windows Vista, but there's no way in hell you're making a netbook that can run Vista. 16:54:09 why did my thinkpad ship with a "downgrade to xp" cd 16:54:16 AnMaster: IT'S NOT A NETBOOK YOU FUCKING RETARD! 16:54:20 ehird, indeed 16:54:25 so they can't use xp? 16:54:28 or do you mean 16:54:29 they can 16:54:31 .......................... 16:54:33 READ DAMMIT 16:54:34 if it is downgrade cd 16:54:37 What's the difference between a notebook and a laptop? 16:54:39 AnMaster: They can *barely* manage to do that, because it ships with Vista by default. 16:54:40 IF THEY ARE BEYOND CERTAIN SPECS THEY CAN'T USE XP 16:54:44 pikhq, ah 16:54:58 Sgeo: most modern notebooks burn your lap 16:54:59 pikhq, thanks for answering the actual question. Unlike ehird 16:55:00 Good lawd the conversations in here are stupid. 16:55:01 so laptop is inappropriate 16:55:05 lol ehird 16:55:06 Microsoft makes the whole affair very confusing. 16:55:09 AnMaster: I DID ANSWER IT FOR FUCK'S SAKE, BEFORE YOU EVEN ASKED 16:55:15 IF A NETBOOK IS BEYOND CERTAIN SPECS, THEY CANNOT USE XP 16:55:23 Sgeo: Also, there's one easy way to rebut a netbook: the screen. 16:55:28 Sgeo: And keyboard. 16:55:33 ehird, which line 16:55:36 The Windows 7 upgrade scheme is retarded. 16:55:38 Sgeo: There is NO WAY you will get any decent programming done on a 10" screen with a tiny keyboard. 16:55:56 ty ehird 16:55:58 ehird, I'm unable to find the word "downgrade cd" anywhere 16:55:58 AnMaster: 16:53] ehird: If a netbook is too powerful, 16:55:58 [16:53] ehird: they can't use windows 16:55:59 16:53] pikhq: Actually, they can't use Windows XP. 16:55:59 [16:53] ehird: pikhq: well, yes 16:55:59 16:54] ehird: but 7 isn't out yet 16:55:59 [16:54] ehird: and vista will be dog slow on them 16:56:06 โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘โ†‘ In conclusion, you're a retard. 16:56:11 ehird, doesn't mention downgrade cd to xp 16:56:15 at all 16:56:18 which is what I asked about 16:56:19 ....... 16:56:21 you retard 16:56:49 A DOWNGRADE TO XP IS THE SAME AS USING XP 16:57:12 ehird: Jebus, man. From how you talk, you'd almost think that you cared about Microsoft. 16:57:26 ........... 16:57:27 lol pikhq 16:57:41 Microsoft secretly fucks babies to shit out new versions of windows. 16:57:43 ehird, um. are you *trying* to say they can use XP if it is a powerful, as long as it is called "notebook" not "netbook"? 16:57:45 No, they don't. 16:57:49 WHAT DO YOU LOVE MICROSOFT OR SOMETHING?????? 16:58:07 ehird: You are fekking retarded. 16:58:19 pikhq, can you see in that quote where ehird answered the question I asked. Since I can't. 16:58:19 ...................................................................................... 16:58:53 pikhq, and I'm pretty sure ehird is incorrect in this case. 16:59:06 gee, that's new; not like you always are or anything 17:00:02 It occurs to me that PSOX was designed to be language-neutral in the same way that Minimal was designed to be TC 17:00:07 heh 17:01:01 ehird, because my thinkpad is definitely beyond those specs you mentioned. Yet it ships with such a downgrade to XP cd. Yes what pikhq said answered the question. But you never did. 17:01:03 Sgeo: Well, it's at least a bit more sane. 17:01:12 A language with stdio could at least *use* PSOX. 17:01:14 AnMaster: Your thinkpad is not a fucking netbook. 17:01:22 You are either being purposefully dense, or have less of a brain than a rat. 17:01:30 ehird, correct. So: ehird, um. are you *trying* to say they can use XP if it is a powerful, as long as it is called "notebook" not "netbook"? 17:01:33 you didn't answer it 17:01:53 because that wasn't clear from what you said before 17:01:54 /sigh 17:02:03 AnMaster: They have a definition for "netbook", but basically. 17:02:20 pikhq, right. :) 17:02:24 Can't one simply netcat instead of psox, to redirect I/O to a server? 17:02:43 FireFly: For trivial cases, sure. 17:02:49 PSOX does more than that. 17:02:52 FireFly, well, iirc PSOX can do more than that. Like... file IO 17:02:52 pikhq: Uhh, that completely contradicts what AnMaster says. 17:02:59 They have a definition of "netbook". 17:03:04 Hm, alright 17:03:06 It's not about what the company calls it. 17:03:20 Is it if you call it netbook It's about if it's a netbook, not if it's called that, but basically. 17:03:24 i.e., not that at all. 17:03:24 and that definition includes that it isn't too powerful? OK 17:03:49 The definition can't include that it isn't too powerful, otherwise, there'd be no such thing as a netbook too powerful for XP 17:03:59 ehird: Out of curiosity, did you get a stick up your ass today? 17:04:06 ehird, now YOU are being dense 17:04:07 since that wasn't what I said at all 17:04:12 and pikhq understood me correctly 17:04:38 pikhq: Wow, that's remarkably reasonable of you; "Stop arguing with me and let me win no matter if I'm right or wrong otherwise I'll insult you". 17:04:41 Convincing indeed. 17:04:43 Also, without PSOX, the esolang can't really determine what server to connect to. 17:04:49 ehird: ... 17:04:51 Can I reply with an equally eloquent suggestion, that of "fuck off"? 17:04:58 this 17:05:01 seems familiar 17:05:03 somehow 17:05:07 ah yes 17:05:24 _Typical_ ehird-being-annoyed-scenario 17:05:27 If I childishly chant "Fight fight fight!", will that stop the fight? 17:05:30 * AnMaster gets the popcorn 17:05:42 Not that I like popcorn really 17:05:47 but it's traditional 17:05:56 ehird, you rank up with GNAA in the halls of trolldom. ;) 17:06:05 Sgeo: No, because AnMaster will mistake it for a reasonable argument ("If I liken a situation to something common (because I said so), it stands to reason that all your arguments must be false.") 17:06:40 pikhq: You do, at least, have the useful property of being predictable. It's much easier to argue when you can make one argument and repeat it because it still applies forever. 17:06:43 Thanks. 17:06:46 Sgeo, give it a try 17:07:03 ehird: -_-' 17:07:08 Sgeo, I'm not sure what ehird was suggesting I would do. It was to incoherent to understand 17:07:13 pikhq: You're still doing it. 17:07:19 Sgeo, BUT, it is fun to watch 17:07:38 AnMaster, I understood it perfectly, but it makes no sense because you're already partially doing it. 17:08:07 Me saying "Fight fight fight" should have nothing to do with you doing what ehird claimed you would. 17:08:08 Sgeo: i do believe you just called AnMaster's attempt at a serious insult of me a childish chant 17:08:21 ehird, I didn't. 17:08:27 actually, mine *was* intended to be silly 17:08:38 from " seems familiar" 17:08:50 17:05] Sgeo: If I childishly chant "Fight fight fight!", will that stop the fight? 17:08:51 17:06] AnMaster: Sgeo, give it a try 17:08:51 17:07] AnMaster: Sgeo, I'm not sure what ehird was suggesting I would do. It was to incoherent to understand 17:08:51 17:07] Sgeo: AnMaster, I understood it perfectly, but it makes no sense because you're already partially doing it. 17:09:14 AnMaster: claiming something you said was meant to be silly doesn't mean shit when you're using it in place of saying anything coherent 17:09:34 ehird, so why do you still do it 17:09:35 Is this fight even _about_ anything anymore? 17:09:36 bbl 17:09:48 Sgeo, no 17:09:55 There is no fight. 17:10:04 Sgeo: it would be, if AnMaster didn't seem to think that yelling at me is a substitute for anything else. 17:10:27 But in either case, it's now fighting about the fight. That seems dumb to me. 17:10:45 ehird, Um? It was pikhq who was 17:10:47 and you 17:10:57 No, you followed in the same vein as pikhq. 17:11:03 you used upper case, thus yelled 17:11:06 I didn't 17:11:20 Sgeo: irc is dumb. 17:11:29 AnMaster: ........... 17:11:30 Sgeo, meta-fight 17:11:36 Gee, it isn't like "yell" could mean "insult" or anything. 17:11:39 I never meta-fight I didn't like 17:11:46 No, I must have meant it totally literally. You are so right. 17:11:48 actually 17:11:54 Incidentally, you just used "silliness" as a stand-in for actual arguments again. 17:11:56 should drop the negation 17:12:02 Should make this a drinking game. 17:12:20 ehird, you do that all the time. You even admitted it a few days ago 17:12:25 about being silly all the time 17:12:34 arguments for what? Who started this silliness in the first place? Does anyone actually care? 17:12:50 i care 17:13:02 You know, AnMaster, I sometimes wonder how on earth you sometimes understand anything anyone says. 17:13:10 It's clear you can't comprehend the english language at all./ 17:13:32 ehird, You are using insults instead of actual arguments now 17:13:35 just fyi 17:13:59 Why do people feel a need to follow up anything I say with a direct example of it? 17:14:07 The idiocy is astounding 17:14:07 also I'm a bit busy, so I'm going to use ignore, until you came to your senses again 17:14:18 Oh, the irony. 17:15:26 pikhq, tell me when he came back to his senses. 17:15:37 Oh, the irony^2. 17:23:16 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:39:09 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:39:44 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:41:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:42:28 about the wlan thingy at uni, further research indicates WPA2 + RADIUS is only used in the library building. At least one building instead uses open + "try to load any web page, get auto restricted to a login page, where you have enter the login, before being able to use internet. I have no idea if that network part will only be able to browse or actually do something useful (like tunnel to home) 17:42:36 ais523, ^ 17:42:54 ais523, how does it work at the university you are at 17:43:09 they use WPA professional, with username and password 17:43:17 ais523, hm interesting 17:43:48 ais523, iirc ehird claimed yesterday that you said your uni used open network 17:43:56 well guess he was wrong or had outdated info 17:43:58 I did not. 17:44:02 *shrug* 17:44:04 At all. 17:44:17 Not one bit. Completely fabricated. 17:44:22 (might have been a few more days ago than yesterday, not sure) 17:44:25 How childish. 18:08:42 -!- Asztal has joined. 18:19:40 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:06:45 ehird: any idea who 72.74.122.180 is? 19:06:54 I think they're counter-trolling esolang 19:06:56 * ehird looks 19:07:13 +: toggles the memory space. 19:07:13 -: toggles the toggle. 19:07:13 .: copies the selected memory to the stack and resets if M1. 19:07:14 ,: copies the stack to the selected memory and resets if M2. 19:07:14 <: prints the selected memory as an ASCII character. 19:07:14 >: prints the stack value mod 128 as an ASCII character. 19:07:16 [: increases the stack value by 2. 19:07:18 ]: decreases the stack value by 1. 19:07:20 lol 19:07:32 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Almost_impossible_to_learn_and_apply_esoteric_programming_language 19:07:35 i like this guy 19:07:51 ais523: i don't think he's counter-trollign us per se 19:08:01 no, he's trolling the trolls 19:08:04 rather than us 19:08:07 right 19:08:13 i like the pages, let's keep 'em 19:08:18 not me :) 19:08:58 ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&diff=prev&oldid=15182 is their only non-trolly edit 19:08:58 likely the same person as 71.184.8.98 19:09:02 who is probably smallhacker 19:09:05 the creator of that language 19:09:16 well, I like what they're doing anyway 19:09:19 although that's less certain 19:09:24 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&action=history 19:09:26 almost certainly not them 19:09:30 since it's two years later 19:09:41 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Chess&diff=prev&oldid=15160 "an idea" 19:09:44 ais523: so it's just someone. 19:09:48 fair enough 19:09:56 if whoever it is is here, well done 19:10:43 hmm... esolang idea: it's trivial to imagine a language which introduces off-by-one errors 19:10:50 yes 19:10:52 but 19:11:01 that would be the analogue of the machine that makes a drink that's almost, but not entirely, like tea 19:11:03 so 19:11:07 -!- Pthing has joined. 19:11:11 the analogue of the machine that makes a drink that's almost, but not entirely, unlike tea 19:11:14 = ??? 19:11:31 an esolang which nearly always gives the wrong answer 19:11:41 you'd have to have your algorithm in the corners of another one, so to speak 19:17:40 * oerjan needs some fairy cake with that 19:23:41 I believe Java2K is "probabilistic". 19:23:59 Which means that each operation is only "likely" to give the correct result. 19:24:14 nutrimatic isn't that, though 19:31:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus"). 19:36:23 You have: no tea. 19:47:04 -!- coppro has joined. 19:47:15 ais523, link to this? 19:47:23 err, what? 19:47:25 I mean, the counter troll 19:47:29 see recent changes 19:48:01 ah... things are finally "working" again 19:48:24 I managed to get a backtrace... discovered the bug was in ext4 and the only way to fix was to upgrade to karmic alpha, but that's okay because the development version is probably more stable than my computer was prior 19:48:53 * ehird debugs Wine 19:49:10 K in Wine is working better than K via SSH X11 forwarding to a VM running Ubuntu Server :-P 19:49:17 K? 19:49:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Almost_impossible_to_learn_and_apply_esoteric_programming_language 19:49:25 awesome programming language. 19:49:27 that? heh 19:49:31 AnMaster: and the bf one. 19:51:57 on the plus side, firefox now renders significantly better 19:52:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/I_hate_your_bf-derivative_really_I_do <-- quite a confusing language :D 19:52:48 or 19:52:54 a confusing description 19:53:14 You're not meant to think it's :D. 19:53:37 ehird, why not? Can you tell me if it is TC or not 19:53:48 "Whoosh" doesn't quite cut it right now. 19:54:32 hm no flow control it seems 19:54:43 so indeed, not TC I guess 19:54:46 ais523: could we do a duet "whoosh" or something? 19:54:51 infinite memory though stack though 19:55:00 ehird, I had read half when I noted it was confusing 19:55:05 ehird: no need, surely? 19:55:15 ais523: the universe is crumbling under the pressure 19:55:27 although you could argue that the action is (karmically) its own whoosh 19:55:29 i suppose 19:57:25 wine's file explorer is nifty. 19:57:34 remarkably polished 19:59:52 i love how k and kdb just dump their files in c:\windows :) 20:00:01 admittedly that's just two files for k and one for kdb 20:00:10 well, kdb also puts stuff in c:\k. 20:06:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:06:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:06:47 -!- InsanePyros has joined. 20:15:54 -!- InsanePyros has changed nick to fleshBasedProces. 20:18:13 -!- fleshBasedProces has changed nick to FBP. 20:20:00 Hello. 20:22:05 Hello. 20:23:26 ehird, dumping files in c:\windows sounds like a bad idea to me 20:23:32 for a program 20:23:33 it's safe 20:23:40 it's just that it's in %path% by default 20:23:41 (obviously, it is required for drivers or such) 20:23:49 it just writes c:\windows\k.exe and c:\windows\k20.dll 20:23:57 kdb writes c:\windows\ksomething.dll 20:24:01 ehird, doesn't windows has an alternative way to find apps 20:24:05 command line. 20:24:12 well, I meant, for command line 20:24:13 (*kodbc.dll) 20:24:15 AnMaster: no 20:24:36 ehird, yes. I'm pretty sure, not well known 20:24:42 but I forgot the name of it 20:24:44 * AnMaster goes digging 20:24:44 AnMaster: no. 20:24:54 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 20:25:38 ehird, it's "app path" or something like that 20:27:09 iirc 20:27:18 yes, there is %path%. 20:27:26 like i said. 20:27:32 you'd have to go into control panel and change it 20:28:08 ehird, well actually, what I was thinking about was for something else 20:28:13 see http://www.codeguru.com/cpp/w-p/dll/article.php/c99 20:28:26 (first relevant google hit) 20:28:31 which indeed does something else 20:28:33 than I remembered 20:31:33 ehird, http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc <-- if you ever need to do that, it works very well 20:31:36 wonderful app 20:32:10 i forwarded x11 over ssh, not run an xserver in the vm 20:32:22 windows gui with wine is a lot snappier though. 20:33:50 ehird, what sort of thing like that is there for OS X 20:34:10 as in, lets say you want to connect to your screen on your desktop from your laptop 20:34:13 just an example 20:34:18 it has many vnc servers and clients. 20:34:25 and also X11, if you want to do X11 apps. 20:34:26 ok :) 20:34:35 AnMaster: OS X comes with VNC server & client 20:34:44 ehird, well, I somehow assumed you would want to run other apps than just X11 ones :P 20:34:48 System Preferences โ†’ Sharing โ†’ Tick "Screen Sharing" 20:34:56 heh 20:35:00 you can VNC to servers with finder's Connect to Sever 20:35:01 *Server 20:35:51 * coppro just discovered he's been working with an embedded scripting language with interesting potential 20:37:31 which 20:37:40 MSEscript 20:37:51 (it actually doesn't have a name. But it's the script in MSE, so... 20:38:06 microsoft script editor? 20:38:24 looks like vbscript. 20:39:06 Magic Set Editor 20:39:33 a program for creating custom cards (espcially for M:tG, but there are many templates available now) 20:40:56 the scripting language is dynamically-scoped, strongly-typed (I think it is now, anyways) and was designed for use with a reflection system that would probably make it attractive for embedding in another program 20:40:58 looks like lua. 20:41:03 yeah, it's lua-like 20:41:15 but it's not Lua 20:42:15 one of the neat features is function composition with + which makes it good for text processing 20:45:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:46:05 -!- FBP has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:58:24 * coppro should talk to the project leader about forking it 20:59:46 forking @ function composition? 21:01:13 oklopol: ? 21:02:25 i was just asking what coppro meant 21:03:30 I mean to fork the script into a project of its own 21:03:50 i guess that was the more sensible interpretation 21:04:39 i'm sure you could've meant opening a thread for both functions, and setting up a pipe between them 21:06:02 :D 21:06:54 :D 21:07:28 ah, I wish 21:07:39 unfortunately, sequential programming is necessary 21:07:50 * coppro is writing in an optimizer though... would you believe it doesn't yet handle tail calls? 21:08:30 sounds like a shit language. just use lua. 21:08:38 nah, just immature 21:08:43 coding sequentially sucks 21:09:32 yes. 21:09:42 I suppose futures could be implemented, but for all the script does, it's not worth it 21:09:47 K guis have no sequential code ;-) 21:10:22 Haskell does not have sequential code (modulo `seq`). The return value of Haskell is sequential code. >:D 21:10:55 hah 21:11:12 btw I get monads now 21:11:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has left (?). 21:11:54 w00ts. 21:12:20 coppro: are you sure 21:12:37 pikhq: yeah, but you can still code imperatively in haskell 21:12:43 the frp gui would look great on haskell 21:12:54 ehird: True. 21:13:20 ehird: well enough that I no longer get bewildered when they are mentioned 21:22:48 -!- augur has joined. 22:01:28 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 22:16:30 Bye for now all! 22:21:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:23:50 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:31:43 -!- ehird has quit. 22:42:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:42:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:54:50 -!- ehird has joined. 23:34:26 -!- augur has joined. 23:38:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:38:22 -!- augur has joined. 23:48:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 23:50:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).