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01:59:10 <ehird> This is my 5,113rd day on the planet.
01:59:41 <ehird> In approximately 8 hours, it will be my 122,721st hour on this planet.
02:01:29 <ehird> In other words, it's my birthday.
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02:02:34 <oklopol> i'd buy you a cake but you'd just eat it.
02:02:49 <ehird> Hey, I might have sex with it first.
02:02:55 <ehird> No wait, I'm not legal yet.
02:03:03 <ehird> It's two years until that happens. :P
02:04:11 <oklopol> how does it feel to know you'll be intercoursing vigorously 24/7 in just two years
02:04:26 <ehird> oklopol: i sort of doubt that
02:04:51 <ehird> oklopol: sure, how much
02:04:59 <oklopol> EHIRD'S VIRGINITY, PLACE YOUR BETS NOW
02:05:15 <oklopol> err, i'm not sure about the 24/7 part
02:05:36 <ehird> I bet £50 I'll be a virgin when I turn 17
02:05:51 <ehird> (16 being the consenterent)
02:06:09 <oklopol> but if you want to bet on when you'll be losing your virginity, sure, as long as the amount is not enough to make you turn a chick down :P
02:07:10 <ehird> oklopol: what if it's enough to make me turn a guy down
02:07:25 <oklopol> ehird: i'm in. assuming we're both still here, and one of us remembers
02:07:37 <ehird> oklopol is preparing for extremely early onset alzheimer's
02:08:03 <oklopol> "oklopol, i wanked today, how would you like your share?"
02:08:13 <ehird> it may have been a joke oklopol
02:08:33 <oklopol> sure, sure, i just wanted to make my own stupider one.
02:08:47 <oklopol> also you can't turn an animal down, they're too cuddly
02:09:12 <ehird> oklopol clearly knows a lot about fucking animals
02:09:14 <ehird> anyway what's your bet
02:09:17 <oklopol> so, umm, is the bet on now
02:09:35 <ehird> you haven't bet an amount, dick
02:09:58 <oklopol> we should probably choose one of those
02:10:08 <ehird> what if i get a sex change
02:10:13 <ehird> define "virginity", precisely
02:10:17 <oklopol> i'm also preparing for extremely early onset inflation
02:10:51 <oklopol> getting fucked / fucking someone / maybe blowjob done to you?
02:10:59 <ehird> bill clinton disagrees
02:11:18 <oklopol> fucking being the act of entering, here
02:11:46 <oklopol> some prefer to use the asymmetry to convey the active fucker
02:12:11 <GregorR> In mere hours my wonderful yeasty friends have built quite bit of pressure!
02:12:22 <ehird> what about handjobs, how do they factor in eh
02:12:23 <ehird> WHAT ABOUT TELEPORTING INTO SOMEONE'S STOMACH
02:12:34 <ehird> or even vagina, does that count as entering
02:12:34 <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer?
02:12:37 <ehird> i never entered, just appeared
02:12:42 <ehird> oklopol: what's the difference
02:12:52 <GregorR> `addquote <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer?
02:12:53 <HackEgo> 74|<oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer?
02:13:02 <oklopol> ehird: some say a chick fucks a dude if she's doing the moving
02:13:16 <ehird> [02:12] oklopol: GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer?
02:13:30 <ehird> [02:12] ehird: what about handjobs, how do they factor in eh
02:13:30 <ehird> [02:12] ehird: WHAT ABOUT TELEPORTING INTO SOMEONE'S STOMACH
02:13:31 <ehird> [02:12] ehird: or even vagina, does that count as entering
02:13:34 <ehird> pressing questions
02:13:42 <oklopol> i am fine with leaving teleporting unspecified
02:14:20 <oklopol> i'd say if you get a handjob, you've lost it, if you give a handjob, then not... really anything involving your special parts.
02:14:54 <ehird> what if someone causes me to spontaneously orgasm, on purpose
02:15:34 <oklopol> maybe not, i'm fine with considering that self-afflicted
02:15:51 <oklopol> even if it's not technically true in the case of magical mind control
02:16:07 <ehird> oklopol: what if the singularity happens and i give someone a reference to my absolute-joy method
02:16:17 <ehird> is that method reference part of my "private parts"
02:16:20 <ehird> considering i no longer have a body
02:16:32 <oklopol> that's definitely losing it
02:17:11 <oklopol> anyway aren't there standards for this stuff, i don't want to go through all this hassle everytime i bet on someone's virginity :|
02:17:18 <ehird> oklopol: what if they discover a security flaw and call it against my permission, that's basically rape right
02:17:39 <oklopol> ehird: yes, but i'd say that counts
02:18:07 <ehird> is this just an elaborate set up to rape me
02:18:26 <oklopol> well clearly you must want it if you're going to pay me for it!
02:19:28 <oklopol> maybe i just want to know exactly when and how you lose your virginity?
02:19:32 <ehird> oklopol: anyway submit an RFC
02:20:23 <oklopol> sounds like something that might offend someone
02:20:41 <ehird> anyway it's trivial to save up £50
02:20:51 <oklopol> ARE YOU SAYING US PEOPLE WITHOUT GENITALIA CAN'T LOSE OUR VIRGINITY WHEN WE HAVE STORY SEX?
02:21:07 <ehird> oklopol: hmm that's a point, what if i lose my sex organs
02:21:13 <ehird> and get prosthetic, mechanic ones
02:21:20 <ehird> i.e., cyborg penis
02:21:23 <oklopol> then you win. in fact i'll pay you 60 out of pity.
02:21:47 <oklopol> ah, that you *do* have sex
02:22:40 <oklopol> yes, but if you lose your sex organs then you don't have sex; except for cyborg penis... i'm not sure what to say about that
02:22:50 <ehird> well does a penis transplant count
02:23:08 <ehird> i'd say yes, obviously
02:23:13 <oklopol> some guys turn gay receivers when they lose their genitalia, just to be able to have at least some sorta sex
02:23:22 <ehird> well does a penis transplant count
02:24:07 <ehird> oklopol: so, we accept that the genitalia used do not have to be what i currently have
02:24:27 <oklopol> i'd say "whatever you count as your primary sex organ", but then again even if you consider that to be your middle finger, and you still have your penis...
02:24:27 <ehird> so, if a cyborg penis is the same general shape, in the same place, and does much the same I/O to my brain
02:24:44 <oklopol> i guess i'm old-fashioned that way, i'd say the penis is still what determines virginity
02:25:11 <ehird> what if i spontaneously grow a vagina.
02:25:35 <oklopol> you do realize this could go on forever :D
02:26:16 <oklopol> yes, very. but you know graph theory
02:26:29 <ehird> well, just answer the vag question
02:28:00 <oklopol> if you spontaneously grow a vagina, using it for vaginal purposes will lead yo losing your virginity.
02:28:05 <oklopol> but, this is a tricky issue again
02:28:18 <ehird> what if I penetrate someone with my anus
02:28:52 <oklopol> i mean, say you get a rimjob, i wouldn't say you've lost your virginity. but i might say that if you do the same thing with your vag... assuming the less strict definition that allows things like blowjobs
02:29:49 <oklopol> ...could you just, you know, maybe not do that?
02:30:15 <oklopol> you would've be able to learn such a zen skill in just three years
02:30:32 <ehird> should i take that as a challenge
02:33:31 <ehird> ubuntu did you give me a graphical environment
02:34:55 <ehird> just a graphical startup
02:35:44 <ais523> nothing graphical but the splashscreen!
02:36:03 * ais523 looks forwards to when splashscreens have 3D animation
02:36:28 * ehird looks forward to when no splashscreens exist
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02:41:25 -!- ehird has set topic: ehird is so awesome that we're wishing him happy birthday in the topic http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
02:43:09 <oklopol> party boy killed by three clubs in face
02:43:12 <Sgeo> Happy birthday ehird!
02:43:28 <ehird> i'm not technically 14 yet, so this feels kind of hollow
02:44:05 <Sgeo> ehird, because of the time, or because you gave a wrong date?
02:44:07 <oklopol> i think back when i was 14, i still had some sorta birthday parties, like went out drinking
02:44:33 <oklopol> after 16, i've usually just ignored all human contact as much as possible and hoped no one notices
02:45:05 <oklopol> i usually lie my birthday is in a few weeks here a bit before my birthday just in case someone remembers when i have it
02:45:17 <oklopol> so they're like "oh it's not yet"
02:45:32 <ehird> I've never had a birthday party
02:45:41 <ehird> to hell with kids :P
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02:46:51 <oklopol> i used to feign being social all the time when i was your age
02:47:12 <oklopol> i guess that's why i'm such a fucking retard now
02:47:23 <oklopol> should've spent that time learning
02:47:46 <oklopol> no i'm not, i suck at the important things.
02:55:29 <oklopol> despite my ongoing efforts to explain to them that math isn't about numbers
02:56:56 <Sgeo> It's not a bad thing to play a WoW clone, is it?
02:57:11 <oklopol> all my irl friends play wow
02:57:29 <Sgeo> I mean, as opposed to actual WoW.
02:57:36 <ehird> ais523: how can I reset my xorg config to default
02:57:40 * Sgeo wants to try Runes of Magic
02:57:40 <ehird> is the file somewhere
02:57:48 <ehird> ah it backed it up
03:02:40 <ehird> $ sudo cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf{.20090822042059,}
03:02:42 <ehird> $ sudo rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf{.20090822042059,}
03:07:31 <ais523> ehird: you deleted the new copy as well as the old one
03:07:59 <ais523> hmm... why didn't you just use mv?
03:11:40 <ehird> back in da hizzouse
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04:11:13 <GregorR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Creamsoda_3ltr.jpg lawl
04:11:26 <GregorR> Their picture of cream soda is an Irish brand labeled "American Cream Soda"
04:11:38 <ehird> it looks like water
04:20:15 <GregorR> What does your cream soda look like? Caramel-colored? (Both exist here)
04:20:35 <ehird> i've never seen any ;|
04:21:21 <GregorR> I keep forgetting that the USA is the Mecca of soda :P
04:21:29 <pikhq> The US invented it.
04:21:32 <pikhq> We have all t3h soda.
04:21:43 <pikhq> Except for Japanese soda.
04:23:16 <GregorR> pikhq: Ever had red cream soda?
04:23:26 <GregorR> (e.g. Big Red or Barq's Red Cream Soda)
04:23:51 <ehird> googling suggests it's lemonade in a fucked up bottle
04:24:35 <GregorR> Highly not-recommended to retrieve the marble.
04:25:13 <pikhq> GregorR: Yes. It is quite delicious.
04:25:25 <ehird> ... the marble? oh, red thing
04:25:29 <pikhq> ehird: It's not lemonade. It's a vaguely lemony soda.
04:25:41 <ehird> why not recom to retrv marbl
04:25:49 <pikhq> You have to break the bottle to do so.
04:26:08 <ehird> drink it, break bottle, \o/ marble \o/!!!!!
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04:29:41 <GregorR> In case you couldn't guess, /me is attempting cream soda now.
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05:43:22 <oerjan> that was awesome, then it was sad
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07:47:20 <zzo38> I wrote the first GameBoy software I wrote today.
07:47:30 <zzo38> I also copy my character-sheet into the computer today.
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10:23:13 <AnMaster> ehird: I tried outside in direct sunlight today. Hard to read, but still not impossible if at brightest setting. Impossible to read at 70% brightness in direct sunlight
10:23:37 <AnMaster> also depends on exact viewing angle it seems
10:29:33 <ais523> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9d1zo/planar_the_other_nethack_ai_built_on_taeb/
10:39:06 <ais523> I think I posted a draft version of it in ##nomic earlier
10:39:13 <ais523> but now it's up, it'll be easier to refer to
10:39:52 <coppro> also, what's this in the topic involving ehird being awesome?
10:40:05 * ais523 wonders if ehird set that topic
10:40:32 -!- ais523 has set topic: ehird is so awesome that he wished himself happy birthday in the topic http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
11:03:02 <AnMaster> ais523, what was the previous topic?
11:03:25 <ais523> "ehird is so awesome that we're wishing him happy birthday in the topic http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D"
11:03:55 <AnMaster> don't he realise he now forced me to not wish him happy bday
11:06:53 <ais523> I assume it /is/ his birthday?
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16:06:57 <ehird> good morning america
16:07:54 <ais523> ehird: so how old will people accuse you of being in arguments now?
16:08:07 <ais523> and how old are you actually?
16:08:32 <ais523> wow, that's expecting a surprising level of intelligence from people who resort to ad hominem attacks
16:08:35 <ehird> i guess augur nught not notice or something
16:08:49 <Pthing> ad hominems are fun for everyone
16:08:57 <Pthing> from the meanest street rat to the most erudite savant
16:09:16 <ehird> Pthing: no they're not because fuck you :P
16:09:17 <ais523> Pthing: you're just saying that because your nickname starts with a capital letter!
16:09:34 <Pthing> you have numbers in your nick, what kind of gaylord has numbers in their name
16:09:40 <Pthing> HELLO MY MUMMY CALLED ME SEVEN
16:09:52 <ais523> ehird: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9d1zo/planar_the_other_nethack_ai_built_on_taeb/
16:10:14 <Pthing> somebody made a nethack AI?
16:10:22 <ais523> Pthing: yes, many people working together
16:10:25 <ais523> ofc, it isn't finished yet
16:10:29 <Pthing> how does it work, try to be pacifist?
16:10:47 <ais523> Planar is mostly mine, and partly sorear's; the framework has many more contributors
16:11:06 <ais523> and NetHack AIs are rarely pacifist, although Planar's more cautious of monsters than most
16:11:08 <ehird> ais523: let's hope that link works
16:11:22 <ais523> ehird: why would you think it wouldn't?
16:11:23 <Pthing> yeah, i realised how stupid that was when i said it
16:11:37 <ehird> ais523: well, with this computer, rather
16:12:33 <ais523> ehird: does it have a working web browser?
16:13:00 <Pthing> if 34k is the maximum score, how do the scores distribute?
16:13:04 <ehird> yes, but it's running as root on a 500 mhz ar4m
16:13:56 <ehird> so its sort of slow
16:13:59 <ais523> Pthing: http://alt.org/nethack/player-top.php?player=TAEB523 is a sample of the games it's played online, I haven't been saving scores locally
16:14:29 <Pthing> or are those when you aborted it
16:14:30 <ais523> that's me quitting it, either to test something else or because it's hit a bug
16:16:38 <ehird> oh, and it's firefox, so that just compounds it on such slow hardware
16:16:53 <ais523> ugh, use something like epiphany instead, or even w3m
16:17:05 <ais523> which shows images by spawning a separate viewer
16:18:08 <ehird> ais523: I can't install anytghing atm
16:18:27 <ais523> but firefox is on there by default?
16:19:50 <ehird> ais523: as well as an iffy piece of software that uses a gprs modem to contact a windows server running IE or something which sends back a compressed, low-colour image
16:20:02 <ehird> they communicate text field editings and clickings.
16:20:18 <ehird> it's one of the worst ogram's ive seenpr
16:20:28 <ehird> hmm it ius a pretty bad orgasm, but a program too
16:22:27 <ehird> ais523: it's a devicey device
16:25:24 <ais523> does it have any other users?
16:26:19 <ehird> it also comes with pidgin
16:26:53 <ehird> ais523: it has other users, but they're not for human use
16:27:11 <AnMaster> ehird, is it an embedded device?
16:27:13 <ehird> including, bemusingly, www-data
16:27:26 <ehird> AnMaster: depends on your definition of embedded; it's running X
16:27:31 <ehird> and I'm conversing with it
16:27:48 <ais523> what's the device's intended function?
16:27:57 <AnMaster> ehird, well, in this case I meant something like a phone, PDA, robot controller or whatever
16:28:21 <ehird> except I'm meant to be outside of wifi range, usign their awful gprs IEcompressed browser thing
16:28:54 <ais523> ehird: I mean, is it a phone? or some sort of cordless internet tablet? or what?
16:29:15 <ehird> AnMaster: nothing you would have heard of; nothing *I've* heard of
16:29:35 <ehird> ais523: Not either; closer to the second
16:30:46 <AnMaster> ehird, is it some portable device?
16:30:50 <ehird> It has a screen that is connected to it; the screen is part of it rather than something I have connected.
16:31:11 <AnMaster> if not, where/how did you find/get/steal/whatever it?
16:31:20 <ehird> AnMaster: (1) Yes; as implied by [a] gprs, [b] "out of wifi range",
16:31:48 <ehird> (2) Yes, unless I stole it from a sentient couch-hobo hybrid and later forgot about it
16:32:22 <AnMaster> ehird, right, just wanted to confirm that. I once saw a public info screen in a museum with an error saying it couldn't connect to the AP <some MAC I forgot>
16:32:48 <ais523> well, by observing error messages and job offers, I've concluded that around here, the busses run Windows and the trains run Linux
16:32:53 <AnMaster> ehird, so where did you get it from?
16:33:08 <ehird> AnMaster: I am uncertain.
16:33:13 <ais523> AnMaster: even worse, the busses are running Windows /2000/
16:33:23 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe you *did* forget it then
16:33:30 <ais523> I couldn't conclude what version of the various bits of Linux the trains were running, though
16:33:39 <AnMaster> ais523, um. In the brake controlling system or what?
16:33:48 <ais523> AnMaster: no, for the entertainment
16:34:03 <ais523> I wouldn't trust a bus's brakes to Windows 2000
16:34:10 <ehird> AnMaster: I have not, as far as I remember, forgotten.
16:34:19 <ais523> but they have little screens which show adverts and things like weather forecasts and puzzles
16:34:34 <ais523> which are basically Powerpoints in a loop, except that the Windows one works via IE (I'm not sure how the Linux one works)
16:34:58 * ehird continues the perilous process of loading the tunes logs on this thing
16:35:05 <ehird> It might run out of its RAM; all 128MB of it.
16:35:08 <ais523> ehird: did you manage to load my link?
16:35:25 <ehird> Then its swap space on the lavish 1024 megabyte SSD!
16:35:39 <ehird> ais523: the reddit link, yes; I will load the blogspot link now
16:36:32 <ais523> ehird: OK, that's quite a big SSD; my third-year project was on a Linux device with 128MB RAM but 64MB SSD space
16:36:37 <ehird> The log list redirects to /~lar1/logs while it is loading. Anyone else having this problem?
16:36:45 <ehird> ais523: As I said; lavish!
16:36:53 <ais523> how unusual to have something with more memory than disk space...
16:37:23 <ais523> we decided a swap partition was probably a bad idea
16:37:38 <ehird> The fonts on this are very crisp and pretty.
16:38:53 <ehird> Hint: I am, in fact, using a real keyboard.
16:39:00 <ehird> 23:47:20 <zzo38> I wrote the first GameBoy software I wrote today.
16:39:10 <ais523> I had fun parsing that sentence
16:39:12 <ehird> zzo, master of tautologies
16:39:25 <ais523> and only tautologous one way round
16:39:36 <ehird> the other way around it's inv alid
16:39:56 <ehird> oh, I had loaded the blogspot link; just forgot. Will read after tunes.
16:40:23 <AnMaster> ehird, is it a netbook of some sort?
16:42:08 <ehird> "Ubisurf"; it's quite thoroughly cheap and is marketed on the "Free unholy GPRS internet (*30 hours/mo)" thing.
16:42:16 <ehird> It's not locked down, I'm root!
16:42:34 <AnMaster> ehird, true. Badly designed though
16:42:41 <ehird> It even has an xterm in the customised menu.
16:43:12 <ehird> I'm going to boot into Damn Small Linux soon via a 1GB SD card plugged into a USB printer/scanner/whatever
16:43:24 <ehird> No USB stick and my USB SD card reader doesn't work :D
16:43:50 <ehird> The screen is 7", which sounds smaller than it looks.
16:44:40 * ehird keeps hitting the touchpad-click tap accidentally.
16:44:52 <ehird> Time to try and boot into DSL. Save any messages for then.
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17:05:54 <ehird> Duh, no BIOS, of course.
17:06:22 <ehird> Anyone want to help me boot via USB on an ARM machine? :-)
17:07:52 <ehird> Strange and unknown platform! Thrilling! Anyone? :P
17:08:18 <ehird> ...hmm, I wrote an x86 image anyway.
17:09:15 <ehird> Anyone know a livecd type thingy that supports ARM? :-\
17:11:20 <ais523> several distros support ARM
17:11:25 <ais523> both Debian and Ubuntu do, I think
17:11:30 <ais523> and presumably they have LiveCD versions
17:11:43 <ehird> the issue is in the presumably clause
17:12:03 <ehird> anyway, ubuntu doesn;t support PPC; are you sure it does ARM? Besides, Ubuntu isntalls in like 4GB
17:12:23 <ehird> Debian doesn't have a livecd afaik
17:12:36 <ehird> Just a livecd-based installer
17:14:23 <ehird> ais523: this is all academic unless I can actually get it to boot from USB, though
17:14:56 <ehird> ais523: hmm, wow, this system comes with Gnash
17:15:21 <ais523> wow as in it doesn't actually work for anything but simple flash games, so why did they bother/
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17:16:13 <ehird> ais523: I'm just surprised, since nobody at all knows what Gnash is; and indeed it's not very useful
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17:16:55 <ais523> oh, and Google wrote an SVG renderer in Flash, in the hope of making SVG catch on more
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17:17:20 <ehird> parting and rejoining to try and regain my text cursor...
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17:18:12 <ehird> what did I miss, if anything?
17:18:43 <Deewiant> 2009-08-22 19:17:32 --> Halph is now known as coppro
17:19:25 <ehird> Deewiant: nowt is a british term; you are not allowed to use it if you are not british
17:19:28 <ehird> cease and desist immediately
17:23:02 <ehird> Deewiant: i will sue you in a court of lwa in trenton, new jersey
17:23:04 <ehird> in capital letters
17:23:58 <Deewiant> What will you charge me with, I wonder
17:24:24 <ehird> Using "nowt" while not being british
17:28:20 <ehird> Apparently it's in the first hour of jan 1 1970
17:29:04 <ais523> ehird: misspelling "law" rather removes the effect
17:30:05 <Deewiant> Using "nowt" falls under freedom of speech; your lawsuit will fizzle
17:30:23 <ehird> Deewiant: But will it fizzie
17:31:09 <ehird> "Maybe it will, ehird."
17:31:28 <ehird> I love how my CPU meter maxes out visiting simple web pages
17:32:05 <Deewiant> It somewhat sucks that these days you can't intentionally state something like that in writing, since people will just assume you fail at commas
17:32:56 <ehird> Also, "Maybe it will <name>" is... very rarely semantic.
17:33:13 <ehird> (semantic, adj. having, of or in relation to semantics)
17:33:28 <Deewiant> There are (presumably) other, more sensible cases, though
17:34:24 <Deewiant> I don't know, hence "presumably"
17:34:34 <ehird> "The certificate chain presented for nexus.passport.com is not valid."
17:34:39 <ehird> Dammit, Pidgin, I don't care
17:34:44 <ehird> Just let me connect to MSN :(
17:37:53 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:37:58 <ais523> isn't there an unfixed known security hole in Pidgin's MSN library atm?
17:38:41 * Sgeo remembers receiving an update for something along those lines, so how is it unfixed?
17:39:19 <ehird> ais523: I really don't care
17:39:42 <Sgeo> Also, pidgin-facebookchat is awesome
17:39:58 -!- ehird has quit ("Leaving.").
17:40:47 -!- ehird has joined.
17:40:53 * ehird uses "HTTP method"
17:41:00 <ehird> did i miss anything
17:41:04 <ehird> also by connect, i mean to msn
17:41:11 <ais523> --> ehird has joined this channel (n=root@91.105.82.86).
17:41:29 <ais523> that device is just going around broadcasting "I know nothing of security" to everything it connects to
17:42:03 <ehird> the http method didn't work :(
17:42:20 <ehird> you can stop calling it a device now, I revealed what it is
17:43:27 <GregorR> Technically you could rename "root" to "admin" and then just create a user account called "root"
17:45:01 <Sgeo> Or just have ident or whatever lie?
17:45:01 <ehird> Anyway, someone help me boot via USB on this thing
17:45:43 <Deewiant> Finding the optimal Funge code to push a given number is tricky :-/
17:46:54 <Sgeo> Wouldn't brute-force ultimately work?
17:46:56 <Slereah> I'm pretty sure it's possible
17:47:02 <Slereah> Maybe not efficiently, but well
17:47:24 <Slereah> Like you could just do every program bigger and bigger until you find the smallest that does that
17:47:42 <ehird> Slereah: halting problem
17:47:53 <ehird> you could do it given infinite time
17:48:20 <Slereah> ehird : Well, he's looking for the most efficient one
17:48:23 <Deewiant> You don't need infinite time, there are trivial upper bounds on the length of the generating program
17:48:41 <Slereah> It's both a program you know exist, halts and is of small size
17:49:24 <Sgeo> You could set a maximum run time
17:49:38 <ehird> Sgeo: then it may be suboptimal
17:49:39 <Deewiant> Trivial lower bounds on the length are also calculatable, of course (but not very helpful)
17:49:44 <ehird> this is trivial stuff guys
17:49:57 <AnMaster> ehird, why would root need to be the actual interactive user on it?
17:49:58 <ehird> the poitn is that you cant bruteforce it
17:50:00 <Sgeo> ehird, in terms of characters, maybe
17:50:04 <ehird> because any given program might not halt
17:50:23 <Sgeo> I think it would make sense to optimize for both characters and run time
17:50:30 <ehird> you can't know whether it's infinilooping or taking 500 years to produce the number
17:50:32 <Deewiant> Okay, let's interject here and specify the problem a bit more to what I was thinking (and have been doing)
17:50:41 <ehird> AnMaster: it does not have to be.
17:50:45 <Slereah> ehird : If it takes 500 years, is it really optimal?
17:50:57 <Deewiant> Use only: '"*+-/: and the numbers [0-9a-f]
17:50:58 <ehird> well, for the upgrades; they're shell scripts
17:51:01 <Sgeo> Slereah, it may be optimal in terms of amount of code.
17:51:05 <ehird> Slereah: Optimal for characters, obviously
17:51:10 <ehird> Deewiant: well that is trivial
17:51:27 <Deewiant> is probably pointless so that can be lost
17:51:38 <Slereah> Also you could just find a random program of such length, set it as the maximum, and run every smaller programs at the same time
17:51:50 <Slereah> Then you could do it in finite time
17:51:59 <Sgeo> Slereah, optimizing for runtime instead of characters?
17:52:06 <ehird> Deewiant: uhh it's just like the and
17:52:17 <Slereah> Well, optimizing for runtime could have infinite length I guess
17:52:23 <ehird> Deewiant: bruteforce it; chips are fast
17:52:28 <Deewiant> ehird: I've tried; they're not
17:52:39 <ehird> APART FROM THIS CHIP
17:52:43 <ehird> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
17:53:00 <ehird> maybe your mom fails at brute forcing
17:53:07 <ehird> give me an example lower/upper bounds
17:53:14 <ehird> that bruteforcing has failed at
17:54:08 <Deewiant> Well, for instance let's pick the number 20000
17:54:19 <ehird> as an upper bound in characters?
17:54:34 <ehird> Gimme an upper bound
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17:55:42 <Deewiant> Or possibly 4 actually, but anyway
17:57:01 <ehird> 852891037441 possibilities and that's just in the upper bound
17:57:20 <ehird> 31 characters allowed = 31 bits
17:57:40 <Deewiant> ' and " can be used to push any byte
17:58:14 <ehird> Just start at the lower bound
17:58:19 <Deewiant> Of course that includes other stuff, but still
17:58:26 <ehird> A rare number that cannot be reduced
17:58:27 <Deewiant> ehird: In this case, I think the upper bound is accurate
17:59:31 <Deewiant> That's still 282578800082945 to 72340172838010880 programs to try
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18:00:30 <ehird> Well, brute force smaller programsf irst
18:00:51 <ehird> fx just crashed; guess im out of ram
18:00:52 <Deewiant> What do you mean, brute force smaller ones?
18:01:27 <ehird> Deewiant: try all numberfunge(31 char subset base) progs of length lower,lower+1,...,upper-1,upper
18:01:37 <Deewiant> Like said, that's going to try at least around 282578800082945 programs since it can't be done in 6
18:01:42 <ehird> as soon as you find one generating the number, stop
18:01:54 <ehird> Get a supercomputer
18:02:24 <Deewiant> I'll add another criterion: nobody needs to buy any new hardware for this to work :-P
18:02:50 <Deewiant> And ask it to tell me the answer?
18:02:53 <ais523> Deewiant: find someone who already has a quantum computer, and use that
18:03:06 <ehird> Deewiant: no, just enjoy it
18:03:31 <ais523> although it might be a pain to run; quantum computers are annoying to program in an imperative style because they have to have fixed control flow
18:03:48 <ais523> (although note: that doesn't prevent TCness)
18:03:59 <ais523> actually, we need an esolang whose control flow is fixed, really
18:04:04 <ais523> as an example of how it's possible to make such languages TC
18:04:05 <ehird> 840x480 isn't all that bad of a resolution
18:04:10 <Deewiant> Quantum computers aren't the magical solution to all problems anyway :-P
18:04:21 <Sgeo> Ebon Musings : Sgeo :: Overcoming Bias : Warrigal_
18:04:23 <ais523> is that like a widescreen 640x480?
18:07:33 <ehird> as seen in this device
18:07:34 <ehird> incidentally, it's 1:20 of 1 jan '70, still according to it
18:07:38 <ehird> I'm not certain it has a hardware clock
18:07:59 <ais523> ehird: probably it does, but not a persistent one
18:09:05 <ehird> ais523: isn't it possible to have the os save it to disk?
18:09:12 <ehird> and resume it on startup
18:09:21 <ehird> that doesn't help if time passes
18:09:22 <ais523> ehird: ingenious, but it's not normally set up like that
18:09:29 <Warrigal_> s/Overcoming Bias/Less Wrong/, I think.
18:09:33 <ehird> ais523: unfortunately flawed, see ^
18:09:44 <ais523> I know one machine I used didn't save the time, but it did save /dev/random's internal state
18:09:57 <ais523> because it didn't have much chance to collect entropy, and didn't want to lose its valuable entropy across a reboot
18:10:21 <ais523> it used /dev/urandom for ssh just so it wouldn't take half an hour to log in
18:10:37 <Warrigal_> But I should look at Ebon Musings.
18:12:05 <ehird> ais523: continue? they used it to set the clock somehow?
18:12:05 <ehird> or was it just a statement
18:12:24 <ais523> ehird: that's the end of the story
18:12:59 <ehird> was the system related to cryptography in some way?
18:19:16 <ehird> it seems that if i switch windows with al-tab instead of clicking, it's faster
18:21:39 <ais523> ehird: no, the system wasn't crypto-related, although ssh does crypto no matter what system it's on
18:22:05 <ais523> there was no actual security risk as the only way it was ever connected to things was over a crosswired ethernet cable which wasn't visible from outside networks
18:22:09 <ais523> but it didn't know that, you see
18:22:25 <ais523> (oh, and we connected the serial debug console up to HyperTerminal sometimes, as well)
18:22:54 <ehird> I'm just wondering why /dev/random was so unholily slow
18:22:54 * ehird disables javascript
18:28:18 <pikhq> ehird: Obtaining entropy from devices not dedicated to it is rather slow.
18:39:06 * Sgeo goes to try to find any videos relating to a 2003 movie that was never released
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19:07:20 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out).
19:08:51 <AnMaster> `addquote * ehird disables javascript
19:08:52 <HackEgo> 75|* ehird disables javascript
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20:14:10 <zzo38> Have you ever written a WordPerfect clone for GameBoy?
20:14:54 <Sgeo> A friend has a Jonas Brothers Live Video Chat application on Facebook. Apparently, every time she says something, it changes her status, so her profile page is now FILLED with everything she said
20:17:05 <zzo38> You know you're a bad D&D player when your character dies before the game even starts.
20:17:34 <zzo38> You are bad D&D player, if, You manage to fall into lava right after the game starts. Every time. Even if there is none.
20:20:36 <Sgeo> http://imgur.com/CcLJb.png
20:22:16 <zzo38> I get a "404 - Image not found" message but the HTTP response code is still "200 OK"
20:22:43 <Sgeo> I deleted it, I accidentally left names in there
20:23:01 <Sgeo> That's interesting that it's 200, though
20:23:44 <Sgeo> http://imgur.com/0FXcp.png
20:26:10 <AnMaster> <zzo38> Have you ever written a WordPerfect clone for GameBoy? <-- what answer did you expect?
20:28:00 <zzo38> Just to see if anyone ever considered any such thing (it is unlike to be done)
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20:28:52 <zzo38> gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0dnd/Vyb gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0dnd/5dashes
20:30:59 <Sgeo> XChat doesn't even make those clickable
20:31:48 <zzo38> Then copy/paste them. If that doesn't work you can also use netcat (connect to zzo38computer.cjb.net:70 and send "dnd/Vyb" (without the quotes)) to receive the file
20:32:05 <Sgeo> Works perfectly in Firefox 3.5
20:32:13 <Sgeo> Well, maybe not perfectly. Maybe I'm missing stuff
20:32:50 <zzo38> What things might you be missing?
20:33:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:34:02 <Sgeo> zzo38, I remember something about gopher having information below every listing, and Firefox not displaying those.
20:34:06 <zzo38> Type 0 files on port 70 should work correctly anywhere (if they are plain ASCII, which these files are).
20:34:11 <Sgeo> May I ask why you use gopher?
20:34:19 <Sgeo> zzo38, I'm browsing around your gopher site
20:34:45 <zzo38> That information is for Gopher+ only. It isn't displaying it because it isn't there.
20:35:52 <zzo38> Anything that isn't a type 0 file might not work correctly in all clients. Specifically, the Hangman game won't work except on Vonkeror (and possibly other clients that support client-brainfuck-over-gopher)
20:37:00 <zzo38> Here's a rendering of my root gopher menu (the menu has been updated since then) in Vonkeror: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/vonkeror/screenshots/screenshot_003.png
20:37:44 <zzo38> Of course, Vonkeror supports HTTP as well, it is primarily a web-browser!
20:38:40 <zzo38> The files I listed are two character sheets of players in the D&D game I am in.
20:38:47 <zzo38> One of them is mine and one is my brother.
20:39:25 <Sgeo> Is it supposed to be an esobrowser?
20:39:39 <Sgeo> I fully support the idea of an esobrowser >.>
20:39:57 <zzo38> No, it is just a web-browser I wrote because I didn't like most other web-browser programs.
20:40:54 <zzo38> The hangman game was written in BrainClub and then compiled.
20:41:10 <zzo38> The code for hangman game is available on the esolang wiki page for BrainClub: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BrainClub
20:43:40 <zzo38> Do you like my character-sheet?
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20:45:14 * Sgeo isn't much of a D&D person, didn't really look it over
20:45:58 <zzo38> O, that's why. Does any people you know play D&D at all? Do you know anything about rules for D&D at all?
20:46:15 <Slereah> I wanted to do a D&D based esolang once
20:46:30 <Slereah> it was to be called dungeons and data
20:46:37 <zzo38> Yes that would be interesting a bit, D&D based esolang, put it in the list of ideas page if you want to post the ideas
20:46:56 <Slereah> There's already something like that there
20:47:09 <Slereah> But nah, I just couldn't write a program that felt natural
20:48:57 <zzo38> Why aren't much of a D&D person?
20:49:30 <Sgeo> zzo38, no one to play with
20:49:50 <zzo38> O. But do you think about the game sometimes?
20:50:08 <Sgeo> Everything I know about D&D comes from OOTS
20:50:26 <zzo38> Then maybe you don't know about D&D, then.
20:50:41 <Slereah> Everything I know about D&D comes from Planescape
20:50:48 <zzo38> If you look at the character-sheets you might learn a bit more about D&D, but still probably not a lot
20:51:06 <zzo38> You can also learn a few things from the System Reference Document
20:51:14 <coppro> grab the KotS quick start guide if you are after 4th ed
20:52:11 <zzo38> 4th ed isn't real D&D or real role-playing game in my opinion, I prefer 3.5ed. 4th ed may not be too bad, but it is a completely different game it just has the same name, that's all
20:52:36 <Slereah> You can take his THAC0 from his cold dead hands!
20:52:42 <AnMaster> kismet, wireshark and aircrack-ng all seems to more or less dislike each other. It seems I need to often rmmod iwlagn && modprobe iwlagn in between using the different tools
20:52:44 <coppro> THAC0 isn't in 3.5 either ;)
20:53:23 <coppro> 4th edition isn't as different as some people would have you believe - things got rearranged, sure, but for the most part it's still the same game
20:53:33 <AnMaster> aireplay-ng to do packet injection doesn't work if kismet set up the monitor interface
20:53:49 * Slereah mostly knows about Warhammer RPG
20:53:54 <AnMaster> works fine when airmon-ng was used to set it up
20:54:14 <zzo38> I read the book actually. Regardless of the things written there, it just works differently. Even if a few small changes in a rule of game can make the game very differently, but in this case it was changed more than that.
20:54:37 <zzo38> One example is in some chess variants there is a lot of differences (they aren't normal chess, either)
20:55:10 <Slereah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THAC0
20:55:27 <zzo38> 4th ed expects you to fight too much for one thing, also I don't like the new alignment system in 4e (it is very stupid), and a few other changes, mostly simplifying things in the wrong way.
20:55:42 <zzo38> Even 3.5ed has some problems, but I play 3.5ed for now anyways
20:56:12 <coppro> the difference is it was designed so that the combat system is an actual, well-balanced game (there are still issues here, but not along the lines of Pun-Pun). I prefer it, especially as a DM
20:56:14 <zzo38> In 3.5ed the arcane magic is not sufficiently arcane, in 4ed the arcane magic is not sufficiently magic.
20:56:52 <zzo38> There's nothing wrong with that combat system. But I don't want to play a combat system, I want to play D&D!
20:57:44 <zzo38> And I don't use miniatures either
20:57:55 <zzo38> I prefer playing without them
20:59:00 <zzo38> D&D is not supposed to be computer game! When I want to play a computer game, I play a computer game.
20:59:47 <coppro> the magic misconception is one of the biggest misconceptions people have imo
21:00:14 <coppro> the classes' powers don't serve the same out-of-combat they used to; rituals do
21:00:19 <zzo38> I also don't like per-encounter stuff (4e has a lot of this, 3.5e has a few), so we just modify the rules to change them to per-day
21:00:38 <zzo38> The DM agrees with many of my ideas about D&D too
21:02:12 <coppro> by the way, please don't misconceive me as disliking people who still play 3.5
21:03:59 <coppro> I'm just enjoy argument
21:04:15 <zzo38> but coppro: Are you interested in looking at these characters-sheets I posted, anyways?
21:04:32 <coppro> sure, though it's been a while since I played 3.5
21:05:05 <zzo38> I prefer defensive playing. Defensive strategy is a completely different strategy than offensive, and I find defensive also much more interesting. I am a defensive expert of D&D. I can't play offensive.
21:05:29 <zzo38> Have you read the book "Art of Defense in Chess"? That is about chess, not D&D, but you might get some ideas from there
21:05:49 <zzo38> Therefore, the book should also be written "Art of Defense in D&D"
21:06:02 <coppro> no, I have not. I don't read much on chess nowadays
21:06:22 <zzo38> That's OK. I was just mentioning it.
21:07:02 <zzo38> Do you like this character sheets, or have a comment of it? (One is mine, one is my brother)
21:09:55 <zzo38> gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0dnd/Vyb gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0dnd/5dashes
21:11:13 <coppro> seems like a good format, though you probably want some way to put multiple things on the same like
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21:38:55 <GregorR> http://www.recipezaar.com/library/water-459
21:39:17 * GregorR is drinking delicious carbonated water.
21:39:43 * Deewiant is drinking decent enough tap water
21:40:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yeah, I have good tap water here too
21:40:10 <AnMaster> not just decent, but very good
21:40:15 <Deewiant> Also, I made a number-to-Funge-code tool which doesn't return the optimal result
21:40:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you mean that tried to return the shortest thing for what number 100000 is or so?
21:41:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so what does it return for 103?
21:41:20 <Deewiant> It doesn't even really try for the shortest, just some things that likely are shorter than other things.
21:41:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that was even shorter
21:42:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sure is, but using base adressing relative storage offset
21:43:03 <Deewiant> 103 is an uninteresting number anyway :-P
21:43:27 <AnMaster> 'g is relative IP rather than relative storage offset
21:43:55 <AnMaster> any code setting the storage offset explicitly though isn't
21:44:18 <Deewiant> Unless it sets it to something relative to the storage offset and then sets it back ;-P
21:45:00 <AnMaster> I didn't even know there were that many
21:45:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why did you send ù encoded as multibyte then :P
21:45:53 <Deewiant> Because you'd not see it if it wasn't
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21:46:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well. I suggest avoiding anything above 127
21:46:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also, I meant in original program source
21:46:57 <Deewiant> Testing that that works properly is on my TODO list for Mycology
21:47:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, efunge currently only requires valid unicode in standard IO
21:47:26 <Deewiant> The program source just looks at [1..255]
21:47:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, err I'm pretty sure you said using utf-8 was a valid interpretation
21:48:39 <Deewiant> Yes, I did; but it's valid in the same way that 16-bit Funges are valid :-P
21:48:53 <Deewiant> I.e. I wouldn't make it the default if I could avoid it
21:49:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but it wouldn't be non-conforming to reject programs that couldn't be parsed in the current charset?
21:49:44 <AnMaster> so if I used utf-8 then... welll
21:50:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you consider befunge in general as advisable then I guess?
21:50:53 <Deewiant> No, just more advisable than thusly implemented Befunge :-P
21:52:10 <Deewiant> '9'@57**+ is the ASCII version
21:52:36 <AnMaster> btw. I need neighbours who actually use their wlans. Even though capturing for several hours I don't yet have enough to test WEP cracking. The most I have is around 220 IVs for one network. And I need around 5000
21:53:59 <AnMaster> it is a bit strange that only sees almost only beacons when there are ~45 networks that can be detected without too much work, and another 20 or so that you can see a few beacons of if you are lucky
21:54:16 <AnMaster> about 7 strong ones (including my own)
21:58:26 <Deewiant> I think it's somehow fitting that an esolang-related tool uses unsafePerformIO twice
21:59:48 <Deewiant> My tool, it uses unsafePerformIO in two different places.
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22:29:57 <Deewiant> ehird: I used unsafePerformIO twice and now I feel all dirty. What should I do?
22:40:58 <ehird> Deewiant: remove them
22:42:29 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes, it is.
22:43:10 <Deewiant> It actually always isn't, but in this case you're right that it is
22:43:31 <Deewiant> Regardless, I don't want to drop the whole thing in IO
22:43:41 <ehird> So make your own monad, or factor out the IO parts.
22:43:57 <Deewiant> You can't "factor out" stuff that you call in an inner loop
22:44:00 <ehird> Wow, this wireless keyboard is **laggy**.
22:44:10 <ehird> Deewiant: Refactor the whole program
22:44:10 <Deewiant> And if I make my own monad, it'd be a wrapper around IO anyway...
22:44:38 <Deewiant> ehird: Not possible in such a way that the IO would go away
22:47:28 <Deewiant> In general you can't modify a program in such a way that it no longer does something it used to, yet produces all the same results as before
22:48:31 <Deewiant> Changing structure can't magically remove IO
22:49:16 <Deewiant> You can't arbitrarily move IO, either :-P
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22:49:37 <ehird> basically, you're telling me that refactoring is impossible.
22:50:42 <Deewiant> No, I'm saying that a certain kind of modification is impossible for something
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22:51:41 <ehird> How come all mousemats are either foamy tarfests or scratchy
22:51:52 <ehird> (Yeah, yeah, I should just buy a glass mat)
22:52:01 <ehird> (But this is seriously annoying)
22:56:00 <ehird> 12:14:54 <Sgeo> A friend has a Jonas Brothers Live Video Chat application on Facebook.
22:56:00 <ehird> they are no longer your friend
22:56:36 <Sgeo> ehird, did you see the pic?
22:56:53 <Sgeo> http://imgur.com/0FXcp.png
22:57:20 <ehird> "Jonas Brothers", friend. What you're saying is not computing; I have no desire to pollute my brain with your Langfordian basilisks.
22:58:58 <Sgeo> Well, actually, she's my friend's sister
22:59:08 <ehird> 12:49:50 <zzo38> O. But do you think about the game sometimes?
22:59:09 <ehird> I love you zzo38, never leave us
23:18:28 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
23:32:27 <ehird> So, the Scheme steering community are trying to satisfy those who dislike R6RS by continuing the broken mindset that produced it.
23:32:46 <ehird> Thank you; no, wait, fuck you.
23:33:50 <Sgeo> ehird, what was the broken mindset?
23:34:09 <ehird> Sgeo: is it just me, or do you have a penchant for seemingly-simple questions that take pages?
23:48:09 -!- ehird has set topic: #esoteric is the system that measures time on your computer http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
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