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00:17:30 <ehird> "You almost certainly have a virus and should reinstall your operating system."
00:17:30 <ehird> "Blaming that guy's link is a lot easier than reinstalling my OS."
00:17:30 <ehird> "So is jacking off in the USB port, but if there is a problem, neither of those things is going to fix it."
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01:09:11 <ehird> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10594014 THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER SHOUT ON THE INTERNET
01:19:21 <oerjan> sensible people avoid caps entirely, you know
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01:25:41 <ehird> I'LL POP A CAPITAL LETTER IN YO ASS
01:26:44 <ehird> typedef struct i{struct i*n;}i;i*h;push(i*i){i->n=h;h=i;}i*pop(){i*t;t=h;h=h->n;return t;}
01:26:49 <Sgeo> ehird, are you referring to the story of the woman who was fired for using capital letters?
01:27:38 <ehird> no, in reply to oerjan
01:27:40 <ehird> but indirectly, yes.
01:28:23 <ehird> Deewiant: stop commenting on reddit, you make my brain's look-at-reddit-names-and-pattern-match engine run
01:28:28 <ehird> it's computationally intensive
01:28:32 <ehird> and takes ages to quit
01:29:12 <oerjan> just like reddit's javascript
01:29:54 <ehird> oerjan: that would be IE's fault.
01:29:58 <ehird> protip: stop using IE
01:30:44 <ehird> <div class="clearleft"><!--IEsux--></div>
01:30:45 <ehird> ↑ THIS IS YOUR FAULT :-
01:30:49 <oerjan> i've mostly given up expanding loading comment subthreads with more than a handful of comments. although that is not _necessarily_ a bad thing.
01:32:06 * ehird stabs oerjan repeatedly with the Ancient Staff of http://www.google.com/chrome
01:33:10 <ehird> YOUR SPLANCH WILL HURT UNTIL YOU STOP EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER MADE ANYTHING FOR THE WEB HURTING
01:33:18 <ehird> ALSO ANYONE WHO HAS EVER READ ABOUT IE'S RENDERING MODEL
01:33:38 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splanch IS AN ODD THING TO HURT
01:33:56 <oerjan> indeed, it's actually an iwc reference
01:34:15 <ehird> I WAS THINKING THAT "SPLANCH" WAS A VEGETABLE IN NORWEIGAN OR SOMETHING
01:34:29 <ehird> NOW DO YOU WANT TO STOP HURTING OR NOT
01:34:31 <oerjan> no. norwegian uses very little c's.
01:34:37 <ehird> *YOUR SPLANCH TO STOP HURTING
01:34:51 <oerjan> as well as h's at the end of words
01:35:30 <oerjan> spinach is spinat, for example
01:36:06 <ehird> STOP TALKING YOU CANNOT TALK COHERENTLY BECAUSE I AM STABBING YOU
01:36:27 <oerjan> ok i will not be of the at in the future
01:37:02 <ehird> DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT I AM STABBING YOU WITH? IT IS THE ANCIENT STAFF OF http://www.google.com/chrome
01:37:32 <oerjan> i summon GregorR to help me, as he is against all things chrome
01:37:54 <ehird> http://firefox.com/
01:38:02 <ehird> NOBODY IS AGAINST CUTE RED PANDAS
01:38:19 <GregorR> http://codu.org/chromates.jpg LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME
01:38:29 <ehird> GregorR: sorry, rub some firefox/red panda all over you
01:38:40 <ehird> also, why did I click that having seen it before?
01:39:05 <oerjan> i didn't click, remembering having been wise enough not to click it before
01:39:18 <ehird> BUT CLICKING http://firefox.com/ IS NEVER A BAD IDEA!
01:39:52 <ehird> IF YOU USE IE, SOME OF GREGOR'S JAVASCRIPT FUNTIMES LIKE THE CPU EMULATORS MIGHT NOT WORK!!!
01:39:57 <ehird> SURELY THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANYWONE
01:40:06 <oerjan> i shall have to hunt down and kill ehird in a painful way for his horrible strong opinions, now
01:40:23 <ehird> I kindly suggest that you try alternate browsers such as Google Chrome or Firefox!
01:40:39 <Sgeo> What about Konqueror or Epiphany?
01:40:58 <Sgeo> Or zzo's browser, Conqueror (I think)
01:41:04 <ehird> Sgeo: konqueror is shit
01:41:14 <ehird> and not really available for windows
01:41:19 <ehird> epiphany is only available for Gnome
01:41:23 <ehird> and uses WebKit anyway
01:41:37 <Sgeo> ehird, I'd still consider those alternate browsers
01:41:38 <ehird> Vonkeror is zzo's awful, awful modification of Conkeror, which is based on firefox but uses keyboard shortcuts
01:41:40 <ehird> instead of buttons
01:41:45 <ehird> Sgeo: you fail at reading.
01:42:56 <oerjan> my task, clearly, is to keep using awful solutions so as to help with ehird's anger therapy
01:42:59 <Sgeo> ehird, "such as" does not imply that the options you provided are the only options
01:43:27 <ehird> Sgeo: Yes; in addition, "alternate browsers" does not necessarily mean all alternate browsers.
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02:53:21 <ehird> "Researchers developing OLEDs as cheap as newspapers?"
02:53:23 <ehird> ^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
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03:11:07 <ehird> Have you heard about JESUS?
03:11:34 <oerjan> you mean madonna's boyfriend?
03:11:48 <ehird> He is EVERYONE's boyfriend
03:11:51 <ehird> Because he LOVES EVERYONE
03:12:02 <oerjan> hm won't madonna be pissed about that
03:12:30 <ehird> no he's very polyamorous.
03:15:16 <oerjan> hm i must have imagined it, wikipedia's article on madonna does not contain the word "jesus"
03:15:49 <ehird> That's because the article for EVERY person would say Jesus!
03:16:40 <oerjan> he's briefly mentioned on the talk page though
03:26:47 * Sgeo suddenly realizes what the oldest files on his computer are likely to be
03:27:58 <ehird> http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2009/jan/03/meme/
03:28:02 <ehird> "There's a script for that"
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03:30:03 <Sgeo> I guess I can manually exclude OS files
03:30:06 <ehird> Apple should do all their ads in latin
03:30:08 <ehird> They'd be so much more fun
03:30:19 <Sgeo> Or would the OS files likely be when the system was reformatted and set up again?
03:30:33 <ehird> Stop asking questions. :P
03:30:48 <Sgeo> I'll try it tomorrow. The computer in question is currently off
03:31:43 <ehird> Anyone know what "I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC." is in Latin? :P
03:31:49 <Sgeo> Better would be if I found my disc that had favorites from before "chat" Crash
03:32:17 <Sgeo> ("chat" Crash == when I lost all information from my computer because I installed some chat server software, and my dad got paranoid and forced me to reformat)
03:32:44 <ehird> do you not have your own computer or sth
03:32:52 <ehird> oerjan: it's two separate lines
03:32:53 <Sgeo> ehird, this was from when I was much younger
03:33:00 <Sgeo> I believe it happened in 2002-2003
03:33:54 <Sgeo> Or perhaps earlier. I do believe there was definately a crash in 2002-2003. I learned of the FRC before the Chat Crash, and I was interested in the FRC in 2003
03:34:09 * oerjan assumes there is some special conjunction that should be used instead of "et"
03:34:22 <ehird> oerjan: would "Mac sum." "Et PC." preserve the spirit of the "and" from the original, though?
03:34:33 <Sgeo> There were no Crashes after August 2003. Knowing the oldest file would push the boundary earlier.
03:34:58 <oerjan> ehird: i don't really have a feel for latin _style_
03:35:04 <ehird> oerjan: You suck :P
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03:36:04 <Pthing> would be "i am a pc and a mac" surely
03:37:33 <Sgeo> I also have two disconnected HDs sitting around. I wonder what's on them.
03:39:01 <Sgeo> I.. seem to have misplaced one of them
03:39:33 <ehird> oerjan: Sorbeo? :(
03:40:32 <oerjan> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sorbeo#Latin
03:41:30 <Sgeo> At least one of these bookmarks dates to around 2003
03:42:26 <Sgeo> Um, when did I first enter #esoteric ?
03:42:55 <oerjan> In the olden days, when the world was new
03:43:49 <Sgeo> Huh. I have a bookmark labelled "NetHack 3.4.1"
03:43:57 <Sgeo> So it must date from before 3.4.2 was released
03:44:58 <ehird> Sgeo: Aren't you quite recent here
03:45:07 <Sgeo> ehird, I think so
03:45:11 <Sgeo> Don't know when
03:45:13 <ehird> I mean, like, after 2006
03:45:21 <Sgeo> I'd guess sometime after 2005
03:45:21 <ehird> I don't know if I was here when you first came
03:46:17 <ehird> I kinda wish I was a little less stupid around 2002-2003, because cool stuff seems to have happened then.
03:46:23 <ehird> That's just my weird sense of nostalgia talking, though.
03:48:29 <Sgeo> Firefox release dates don't help pinpoint an earlier bound
03:56:13 <Sgeo> I can't believe that this site is still paying for hosting/domain name/etc
03:56:16 <Sgeo> "You need IE 4.0 or higher to play it."
03:56:20 <Sgeo> http://www.1000ad.net/thegame/
03:56:25 <Sgeo> Copyright Ader Software 2000-2002
04:00:52 <ehird> http://www.1000ad.net/ is still sort of updated, so.
04:00:58 <ehird> (last updated 2007, although updates are very sparse)
04:01:12 <ehird> Domains cost like $10/yr, pair with autorenew and say, using it for email...
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04:48:20 <oerjan> dammit what is this /r/DoesAnybodyElse thing and how do they manage to spy on me
04:48:53 <oerjan> just came up on the default list today
04:49:08 <ehird> oerjan: that's automatic.
04:49:10 <oerjan> ehird: that was a joke
04:49:24 <ehird> important to be precise about these things
04:49:45 <oerjan> i do at least 3 of the top 10
04:53:10 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/9g0zj/dae_sometimes_stare_into_their_own_eyes_in_the/ ;; agh I do this
04:53:17 <ehird> it literally looks like a demon is coming out
04:53:26 <ehird> and some horrible black thing will appear next to me
04:55:02 <ehird> "DAE have a life that is better than prison or internment camps but you still wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy?"
04:57:43 * oerjan makes a note not to stare into the mirror
04:58:04 <ehird> oerjan: which were those no/yeses to
04:58:44 <oerjan> you've only listed two...
04:58:59 <ehird> oerjan: yes, but which do they correspond to, i mean i don't see you as the "woe is me" type :P
04:59:32 <oerjan> i have a very fluctuating mood
05:00:29 <oerjan> also i find it completely impossible to accept that suffering exists in the universe _at all_
05:00:36 <ehird> oerjan: you appear to be alive and browse reddit and IRC about, uhh, random stuff
05:00:45 <ehird> sounds like a pretty cushy life, relatively :P
05:00:59 <ehird> also, impossible to accept = tolerate or... believe
05:01:07 <ehird> because err it's pretty easy to come up with a counterexample :P
05:01:17 <ehird> oerjan: what if we killed all the unhappy people?
05:01:50 * Sgeo blows a gasket
05:01:59 <ehird> Sgeo: THIS CHANNEL IS PG-13
05:02:26 <HackEgo> * seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * In sailing, gaskets are lengths of rope or fabric used to hold a stowed sail in place. In modern use, the term is usually restricted to square-rigged ships, the equivalent items on yachts being
05:03:00 <Sgeo> `define blow a gasket
05:03:01 <HackEgo> * To become very angry or upset \ [13]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/blow_a_gasket \
05:03:05 <oerjan> there we have it, a gasket is a seal
05:03:13 <oerjan> greenpeace will be very upset
05:03:16 <ehird> Someone probably shut a VR online game Sgeo played in 2003
05:04:32 <Sgeo> Well, that failed. Good night, all
05:04:57 <Sgeo> ehird, I was hoping that the person saying that The Guild S3 would be released midnight PDT was wrong
05:05:06 <ehird> Oh noooooooooooooooooo?
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05:45:09 <ehird> oklofok: you're redundant
05:47:50 <oklofok> i... couldn't disagree more
05:48:03 <oklofok> IN 13 MINUTES :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:48:05 <oklofok> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:48:07 <oklofok> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:48:09 <oklofok> :dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:48:13 <oklofok> :dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:48:19 <oklofok> i think it's a good thing.
05:48:44 <oklofok> or do you want to bask in the awesomeness too?
05:50:37 <oklofok> you're such a useless piece of pie
05:52:44 <ehird> oklofok: you're a bitch.
05:54:15 <oklofok> mmmmmmm automata theory, i'll probably start touching myself during the lecture
06:01:35 <ehird> oklofok: moneys are touching
06:01:42 <ehird> that is what you must not know
06:13:50 <ehird> doodle doodle i'm a poodle
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06:24:10 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
06:24:30 <ehirdium> "Received CTCP 'DCC CHAT chat 1077849409 10079' (to ehirdium) from EgoBot"
06:26:10 <coppro> !echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
06:26:13 <coppro> `echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
06:26:21 <ehirdium> coppro: Uhh, no, not going to work.
06:26:30 <coppro> I got EgoBot to quit before
06:26:50 <coppro> `sh echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
06:27:07 <ehirdium> it uses a fucking capability-based security wrapper in a chroot
06:27:11 <ehirdium> you think it's not gonna handle lines?
06:27:22 <coppro> ehirdium: you never know
06:27:49 <ehirdium> anyhoo, I conclude adium is not quite an acceptable IRC client yet
06:27:50 -!- ehirdium has left (?).
06:29:15 <ehird> I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person."
06:29:23 <ehird> It types itself, just like the letter keys. I find it is about as useful.
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06:37:25 <Rugxulo> *boo hiss* Bash 3.2 needed for Bashfunge :-P
06:37:50 <ehird> Dude, bash 4 is out.
06:37:58 <ehird> Why not retire to your cave where everything works with ancient software?
06:38:01 <Rugxulo> dude, I know ... what's your point? ;-)
06:38:08 <Rugxulo> yeah, 2002 is so ancient (sarcasm)
06:38:18 <ehird> Yes. Yes it is, in computing.
06:38:44 <Rugxulo> C++ 98? standard ... C99? standard
06:39:06 <ehird> Wherein Rugxulo compares the standards of huge languages with releases of a shell program.
06:39:26 <Rugxulo> a very very complicated shell program
06:39:40 <ehird> Yes, bash is very very complicated
06:39:53 <Rugxulo> have you looked at its guts? ugh ...
06:40:45 <ehird> RMS' eaten toe-pickings were!
06:40:56 <ehird> *RMS's. Trailing apostrophes are dumbtarded.
06:41:02 <Rugxulo> okay, just tried Bashfunge on Cygwin, seems to work okay
06:41:10 <ehird> Quick! Somebody break it!
06:41:50 <coppro> because if RMS was involved in coding bash, I have no need to look at it to know how awful it is
06:41:50 <Rugxulo> hey, anything implementing Befunge 93 is cool :-)
06:42:02 <Rugxulo> no, AFAIK, RMS never worked on Bash ;-)
06:42:23 <ehird> if (its (just_like (lisp), when_you (code_it_like_this)))
06:42:54 <Rugxulo> I wonder how Bash-centric Bashfunge is (e.g. would it work on other shells)
06:43:11 <ehird> Maybe zsh, but that's quite unlikely.
06:43:20 <ehird> (zsh is awesome, btw.)
06:43:54 <ehird> Um, almost certainly not.
06:44:43 <Rugxulo> and I thought you said "109" was the latest ... then why does Bashfunge say "Befunge08" ??
06:45:14 <ehird> (a) 109 isn't released yet and nobody else supports it, and
06:45:20 <ehird> (b) bashfunge is old. 08 is the old name of 108 and 109.
06:45:48 <ehird> Bashfunge is also too slow to do anything in, it takes something like half an hour to run Mycology.
06:45:58 <ehird> Run fungot on it, that'll be a laugh.
06:45:59 <fungot> ehird: i shall help also. we must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean...
06:46:06 <ehird> You can dance, fungot.
06:46:14 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
06:46:16 <Rugxulo> too slow? even on Core i7? (older is obsolete, upgrade now!!!)
06:46:50 <Rugxulo> anybody writing in Bash should expect a small performance decrease ;-)
06:46:54 <ehird> Surprisingly, a shiny new CPU with like 20% performance improvements does not alleviate the crippling slowness of bash and bashfunge.
06:47:09 <ehird> Rugxulo: also, if you do have a core i7, enjoy your non-ECC supporting platform.
06:47:31 <Rugxulo> ECC es fur wamps, I dun't neid et
06:47:44 * ehird flips some bits in Rugxulo's memory
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07:02:20 <Rugxulo> hmmm, Language-Befunge seems to hate Cygwin (or my install, at least) :-P
07:04:51 <Rugxulo> BTW, know of any Brainf*** interpreters in Befunge?
07:05:28 <ehird> Bashfuck, for one.
07:05:30 <ehird> It's rather trivial.
07:05:33 <ehird> Also, you can say fuck.
07:05:51 <Rugxulo> for unlawful carnal knowledge ... hooray for me ;-)
07:06:11 * Rugxulo sings, "Home grown, down home ..."
07:07:45 * ehird looks at his Miscellaneous Pile of Overly-Specific Certificates, finds no Certificate of Liking Terrible Music, leaves disappointed
07:08:40 <Rugxulo> found a Befunge98 one, wanted a 93 one :-/
07:09:01 <ehird> Oh, you said in Befunge.
07:09:08 <ehird> Rugxulo: Befunge93 is not TC.
07:09:30 <ehird> It cannot even do the 30,000 baseline cells that a lot of programs need and the original interpreter used.
07:09:57 <Rugxulo> but one good enough for "Hello world" and similarly simple stuff should be doable
07:14:29 <AnMaster> ehird, was this the person you lied about cfunge a few days ago?
07:14:46 <ehird> Uhh, for some definition of "lie" equal to "things I disagree with because I wrote it".
07:14:54 <ehird> But, sure, evil commie lies, AnMaster.
07:15:31 <AnMaster> ehird, nah, but you are actually wrong. cfunge is currently the fastest one. And several people in here use it. fizzie for example for fungot
07:15:32 <fungot> AnMaster: cyrus! are you leaving! it's cyrus! run away for now!
07:15:42 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, one chat and ehird already hates me ;-)
07:15:43 <ehird> Umm, wrong about what?
07:15:51 <ehird> Did I ever deny that cfunge is the fastest interpreter?
07:15:56 <ehird> Did I ever deny that several people in here hate it?
07:16:03 <ehird> (Rugxulo: Did I ever say that I hate you?)
07:16:20 <AnMaster> for the line "several people in here"
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07:16:49 <ehird> And I never claimed any of those things false, so uhh, I don't see what the hell you're trying to say other than "stop saying cfunge is bad, meanie".
07:17:01 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, anyway, about cygwin: I don't have windows handy to test with. But cygwin is your best bet for cfunge if you need to use it on windows
07:17:26 <Rugxulo> ehird, you said (and I'm almost quoting verbatim), "Eww, you use old software, Emacs, and Windows ... can I stab you?"
07:17:43 <ehird> No, that is not "almost verbatim"
07:17:46 <ehird> And yep, I was totally serious about stabbing you
07:17:49 <Rugxulo> yeah, I'm sure you meant that in a loving way ;-)
07:17:57 <ehird> I want to actually be wherever you are and stab you so that you bleed.
07:17:58 <Rugxulo> the lovey-dovey kind of stab, y'know
07:18:00 <ehird> And die. That is what I think
07:18:04 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, I remember that basic things like getting environment variables didn't just work as expected under windows :/
07:18:21 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, well that is worth a try as I said
07:19:09 <ehird> I highly doubt cfunge will work on cygwin.
07:19:34 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, if it lacks mmap() you could rewrite the file loading part to use getc() or something. I use mmap() because it is faster (I profiled) and easier as well
07:20:36 <AnMaster> the build system would need a prod to not error out when mmap() is missing as well, but that would be as trivial as commenting out a line or two in CMakeLists.txt
07:21:15 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, but I guess cygwin *does* have mmap() right?
07:22:09 <Rugxulo> BTW, found another "Brainf*** in Befunge"
07:22:37 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, why are you stuck on windows though? Hardware issues?
07:23:51 <Rugxulo> sorta ... none of the *nixes I tried really worked too well (not that Windows is perfect, though)
07:23:52 <ehird> AnMaster: he likes it
07:24:00 <ehird> or at least that's what he said yesterday
07:24:01 <Rugxulo> no, I like DOS, I tolerate Windows
07:24:47 <Rugxulo> (hmmm, that Brainf***-in-Befunge may need "arbitrary bignums in the stack")
07:25:00 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, so you want no memory protection, a pain to use memory above 640K, ...?
07:25:26 <ehird> I don't know what Brainf*** requires
07:25:32 <ehird> But I know that Brainfuck normally uses 8-bit cells
07:25:34 <ehird> with an unbounded tape
07:25:51 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, DPMI -> DJGPP = works!
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07:26:04 <AnMaster> 93: 8 bit playfield, 32 bit stack cells iirc
07:26:06 <ehird> Only Funge-98 has provisions for bignum cells, and even then only awkwardly.
07:26:30 <AnMaster> and yes there is one bignum one at least
07:26:41 <ehird> You just mentioned that because you wrote it.
07:26:47 <AnMaster> try my efunge, needs erlang installed. Should probably work under windows. But I never tried it
07:27:19 <ehird> aand predictable as clockwork
07:27:53 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, that was a question: "what is that"?
07:28:05 <fizzie> It's the protected-mode-in-DOS thing.
07:28:30 <AnMaster> fizzie, is it something you load with that config.sys thingy?
07:28:34 <Rugxulo> yeah, standard stuff, works in OS/2 2+, Win 3+, DOS w/ extender, etc.
07:29:15 <fizzie> Or DOS/4GW, which I think is what Watcom's compilers used.
07:29:15 <AnMaster> I used mac before I changed to xp for a few years, then to linux
07:29:27 <AnMaster> so I have like no contact ever with dos world ;P
07:29:54 <Rugxulo> Wolfenstein 3D = 16-bit Borland C
07:30:01 <Rugxulo> Doom 1 & 2 = 32-bit Watcom C
07:30:45 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, not portable between compilers even? ;P
07:30:45 <Rugxulo> ever heard of Ardi's Executor (Mac emulator)?
07:30:56 <Rugxulo> DPMI isn't related to compilers, it's an API
07:31:32 <Rugxulo> http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/dpmi/
07:32:52 <AnMaster> this would have been more interesting if I had any nostalgia about DOS ;P
07:33:02 <Rugxulo> but no, typically most (non-DJGPP) apps were never written for DPMI "only", they expected the unofficial, undocumented 32-bit int 21h extensions
07:33:10 <Rugxulo> (partially supported by some Watcom extenders)
07:33:23 <Rugxulo> I know I know, if you never were familiar with DOS, it wouldn't matter
07:33:31 <Rugxulo> just trust me, it works, Quake 1 sold fine ;-)
07:33:49 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, ok. Tell me when you have a 64-bit extender for it ;P
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07:34:01 <Rugxulo> DOSEMU works on x86-64, that's as close as you can get
07:34:24 <Rugxulo> runs *almost* native speed (due to no V86 mode has to emulate a very small portion)
07:34:37 <fizzie> You can't say that whole skedaddle with a real-mode operating system and protected-mode applications was exactly *elegant*, no matter how well it might've worked.
07:34:46 <Rugxulo> DJGPP is extremely elegant
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07:34:58 <Rugxulo> no worse than using GCC on Linux
07:35:07 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, you mean fork() { errno = ENOTIMPLEMENTED; return; }
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07:35:24 <AnMaster> (which will break at least parts of cfunge btw)
07:35:27 <Rugxulo> fork is not implemented because most DOSes (and compatibles) don't support it
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07:35:41 <ehird> it would be nice if my IRC client didn't crash
07:35:47 <ehird> as I was going to say
07:35:50 <Rugxulo> EMX/RSX (whole other extender + DPMI) emulates fork, though, but DJGPP is miles better in most other ways
07:36:01 <ehird> Rugxulo: DJGPP isn't elegant at all...
07:36:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Thank you, I care deeply
07:36:09 <ehird> about your IRC client
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07:36:28 <AnMaster> well I use two ones: xchat and ERC
07:36:41 <Rugxulo> Novell (DR-)DOS 7 supports multitasking, but nobody ever bothered writing anything for it
07:36:46 <ehird> AnMaster! Tell me more about all your IRC clients!
07:36:58 <ehird> I'm so interested in what IRC client you use and how you use it. Tell me a story about your IRC client!
07:37:10 <ehird> In fact, I'd like you to do that every time I mention my IRC client. Oh wait, you do...
07:37:16 <AnMaster> ehird, you haven't slept tonight right?
07:38:01 <ehird> What on earth has my absolute boredom with you continually mentioning your <program> and how awesome it is whenever mine does something displeasing got to do with that?
07:38:09 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, I don't expect it to matter, but DJGPP does have latest ports of VIM, Emacs, GCC (though not Bash)
07:38:09 <ehird> It's irritating. Stop it.
07:38:35 <fizzie> "Once upon a time, in an IRC client far, far away..."
07:38:50 <AnMaster> ehird, and you get so very anti-social when you didn't sleep
07:39:01 <ehird> One thing I like about my IRC client: It has a feature that lets people stop talk to me without having to have it solely in dreams.
07:39:14 <ehird> AnMaster: actually, you just like coming up with excuses whenever I dislike you.
07:39:19 <AnMaster> sure, my clients have /ignore too
07:39:25 <ehird> I remember when you implied that me using Linux instead of OS X made me nicer...
07:39:28 <AnMaster> ehird, I would say the reverse
07:39:48 <AnMaster> maybe the effect wore off if you are using linux now
07:40:05 <ehird> Ladies 'n gents, AnMaster thinks what OS I am currently using to talk on IRC is directly related to whether I'm kind or not.
07:40:11 <ehird> Please welcome this master of self-delusion.
07:40:49 <AnMaster> you get quite.... self-delusional... yourself when you didn't sleep
07:41:26 <ehird> ...you just directly stated that and now you're denying it?
07:42:21 <ehird> Or perhaps he's just using "I don't like what you're saying" as a catch-all disproof of everything I've said, regardless of whether he said it first or not... The mind boggles.
07:44:24 <Rugxulo> mind boggles or boggles the mind? ^_^
07:44:40 * Rugxulo wonders if you can write a Boggle clone in Befunge ... heh j/k
07:45:37 <AnMaster> what I tried to write was "Boggle"?
07:45:47 <AnMaster> but somehow my space key locked up
07:45:55 <ehird> Other /ignores AnMaster has executed recently: /ignore Google
07:47:57 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, so you use Linux and/or OS X?
07:48:08 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD
07:48:40 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, Gentoo, Arch and currently also Ubuntu on laptop (because there I need things to just work)
07:48:45 <Rugxulo> and BTW, have you heard of shasm/osimplay? ;-)
07:48:57 <AnMaster> shasm/osimplay <-- no clue what that is
07:49:25 <Rugxulo> (Forth-ish x86 assembler written in Bash)
07:49:35 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, there was some bashforth I remember
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07:55:58 <Rugxulo> AnMaster, have you programmed in Forth before?
07:56:27 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, no, I haven't really had time to learn it, and currently I don't expect to have it soon either, what with just having started at university
07:58:34 <Rugxulo> that might explain the lack of DOS nostalgia ;-)
07:59:12 * Rugxulo regales everyone about ye olden days of GCC 2.7.2.1
07:59:25 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, and I used redhat 5.0 ;P
07:59:30 <Rugxulo> it's not like I'm super old either, only just turned 30 ;-)
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08:01:01 <fizzie> Some would just say 65*.
08:01:20 <fizzie> But what would Deewiant's constant-builder say?
08:01:57 <fizzie> A funge-98 programmer would probably say 3a*.
08:02:17 <fizzie> Anyway, from the viewpoint of the channel, 30 sounds quite ancient.
08:02:31 <fizzie> Isn't that, like, a bit before death?
08:02:54 <fizzie> I have no idea about oerjan's age, I assume it is considerable.
08:03:16 <ehird> oerjan is like 38.
08:03:26 <fizzie> Seen the stars born and so on.
08:03:32 <ehird> nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost
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08:03:45 <AnMaster> fizzie, are you suggesting he _is_ a great old one?
08:03:53 <ehird> fizzie: aren't you like 30-something, I remember someoneorother saying that, though they could just be bullshitting me
08:04:09 <ehird> [08:03] ehird: nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost
08:04:10 <ehird> ↑ i meant mycroftiv, not nescience
08:04:12 <fizzie> ehird: I guess it depends on your rounding mode, 26 nowadays.
08:04:16 <AnMaster> what the hell happened to wxmaxima after updating it....
08:04:32 <ehird> fizzie: you're like a bit before a bit before death!
08:04:54 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, interface completely changed
08:05:07 <ehird> An interface being redefined?
08:05:08 <AnMaster> also of course I keep things up-to-date. It is painless usually on linux
08:05:38 <ehird> Rugxulo: what he's trying to say is "You use Windows and I disapprove of this"
08:05:41 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, well on gentoo it is just tedious. But often more painless than binary distros. :P
08:05:49 <ehird> facts don't really enter into it
08:07:11 <Rugxulo> it's all the same hardware, so in theory any OS can do anything
08:07:13 <AnMaster> also the line editing history feature is gone... meh
08:07:49 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, since gentoo compiles packages from source when you install them, ABI breakages tends to hurt less... just recompile affected packages.
08:08:08 <AnMaster> instead of being rather complex like on many other distros
08:08:13 <Rugxulo> er, I wouldn't call it easy ... even if automatic, too many things can go wrong
08:08:24 <Rugxulo> if it works well, 100% of the credit goes to the script maintainers
08:08:38 <AnMaster> Rugxulo, in my experience those things doesn't go wrong. And yes credit goes to the portage maintainers
08:09:02 <AnMaster> (portage = the package manager, ebuilds = the build scripts)
08:09:53 <AnMaster> ok I think I can get used to this new interface. In fact parts of it is cool. Just I miss shell style line editing and history
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08:47:07 <ehird> [[symbolics.com, the first domain name ever registered, has been bought by a "real estate and domain investment company."]]
08:47:26 <ehird> Symbolics.com Was The FIRST Registered Domain Name!
08:47:26 <ehird> —http://www.symbolics.com/, "Symbolics: It all started here".
08:47:44 <ehird> You shouldn't have done that, David K Schmidt.
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08:48:54 <ehird> You are a bad person.
08:49:19 <ehird> Your actions are bad and you should feel bad.
08:50:03 <Rugxulo> ehird, so tell us how you really feel, don't be shy ;-)
08:50:11 <ehird> Amusingly it isn't even the oldest domain, just the oldest .com and the oldest still-registered domain.
08:50:15 <ehird> Rugxulo: He did a bad thing! :P
08:50:36 <Rugxulo> (singing) "David did a bad bad thing" (ba dum da dum de dum de dum)
08:51:15 <ehird> http://cgi.ebay.com/SYMBOLICS-DOMAIN-NAME-TEL-SEXY-HOT-MATURE-RARE-LOGO_W0QQitemZ220437152045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335314012d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_11186wt_1167
08:51:15 <ehird> Wow! For only $21,000,000 I can buy symbolics.tel with free shipping! It even has a picture of Bama!
08:51:51 <Rugxulo> in fairness, it IS sexy, hot, and mature ;-)
08:52:37 <ehird> Also, when the seller's name, 10qvrymuch, is pronounced quickly, it sounds like the pronunciation of "thank you very much"! WILL THE WONDERS EVER CEASE?????????
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09:19:51 <ehird> oklofok: i have determined that you do not exist.
09:23:38 <ehird> Toli Toli Toli Toli Toli
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09:41:50 <fizzie> ehird: That reminds me of a quote: https://pastee.org/gf9w2
09:42:17 <ehird> Did I really need to click that link to be reminded of a famous h2g2 quote? :P
09:43:46 <fizzie> It's not like the quotes have unique identifiers I could use to refer to them.
09:44:32 <fizzie> I think the Finnish translation has the vanishing bit formatted as (retranslating back to English literally) "vanishes like an irrational fart in the Sahara of logic".
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10:18:51 <ehird> thought: domain names are probably economically unscarce
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10:28:54 <ehird> So, in case anyone thought rms has ever been sane, here's what he said when Symbolics corporation told him to stop reading their code and rewriting features from it:
10:28:56 <ehird> [["I definitely did have fantasies of killing myself and destroying their building in the process," Stallman says. "I thought my life was over."]]
10:30:29 <ehird> [["I started crying right there in the equipment room," he says. "Seeing the machine there, dead, with nobody left to fix it, it all drove home how completely my community had been destroyed."]]
10:30:39 <ehird> It's cringeworthy even to read this.
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10:34:59 <fizzie> Does rms nowadays use passwords, I wonder.
10:36:25 <ehird> Heh, almost certainly.
10:36:36 <ehird> Well, maybe not on his laptop.
10:36:43 <ehird> Probably on his server accounts.
10:37:27 <ehird> He's a fool, incidentally.
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10:56:31 <fizzie> ehird was quoting few bits, probably from http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch07.html I guess.
10:56:51 <ehird> Another copy of that, but yeah.
10:57:14 <ehird> Probably AnMaster will now chastise you for not prefixing that with "ehird:"; he's done that before when ignoring me, at least.
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13:09:19 <ehird> oklopol: so why are you still pretending like you exist
13:20:39 <ehird> there should be buskers with laptops
13:20:45 <ehird> making electronic music with a laptop case open for money
13:20:54 <ehird> or perhaps with overdriven electric guitars
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13:30:25 <fizzie> Deewiant: But what would Jesus say!?
13:30:44 <fizzie> I doubt the Bible addresses Befunge constants at all. :/
13:31:31 <ehird> It's such a useless book
13:32:03 <ehird> Deewiant: What does it say for "befunge" (base 26)?
13:32:22 <Deewiant> I don't know, tell me what "befunge" is in base 26
13:32:48 <Deewiant> It only takes base 10 as input :-P
13:32:59 <ehird> But that's so much work!
13:37:32 <Deewiant> If it's that; 4548*+1348**+56898::**+**+*** or 4548*+1c8*+d555558*****+*** or 4"%a5N"5'@**+***
13:47:59 <ehird> I think I prefer the or :P
13:48:46 <ehird> Sigh, another Luddite dualist idiot peddles his unscientific doomsday view on AI in a popsci publication. What else is new.
13:49:27 <Deewiant> If I had some kind of linear encoding which knew about commutativity that last one could be a character shorter
13:51:33 <ehird> How to produce strong AI: Keep having babies until evolution gets bored and spits out an intelligent, self-improving computer
13:51:43 <ehird> I am sure this will work.
13:52:24 <Deewiant> That presupposes two rather unlikely states
13:52:51 <Deewiant> Firstly that evolution can get bored, and secondly that it'll do that if it does
13:53:12 <fizzie> Deewiant: Is there a reason for 4"%a5N"5'@**+*** over 4"%a5N@"5**+*** then?
13:53:29 <ehird> Deewiant: If you adopt a sufficiently warped view of what genes can do it has a probability of 1, assuming you're immortal
13:53:36 <Deewiant> fizzie: Like said, I don't have a linear encoding which knows about commutativity.
13:53:55 <Deewiant> It goes straight from binary-treeish AST to string
13:54:07 <ehird> Deewiant: Without a sufficiently warped view, you'll just get a baby that immediately flies over to a computer and types out a strong, self-improving AI within hours.
13:54:29 <Deewiant> ehird: Also assuming a universe that exists forever
13:54:42 <ehird> Deewiant: That is kind of implied by a thing being immortal.
13:54:43 <Deewiant> Although I guess true "immortality" assumes that.
13:55:07 <Deewiant> I don't know, arguably "immortal" could also mean being able to live as long as the surrounding universe.
13:56:06 <Deewiant> fizzie: So it just generates a Mul (Push 5) (Push 64) and the reason it becomes 5'@ instead of '@5 is that the left branch is output first.
13:56:22 <ehird> All finns: do you guys have obnoxious companies trying to "cut down" on piracy by taking all means necessary against your internet connection?
13:56:25 <Deewiant> Trying all possible branching orders may or may not be feasible, I'm not sure how fast that grows.
13:56:43 <ehird> Deewiant: exponentially, no?
13:57:53 <ehird> Hey, apparently this exchange has ADSL2+ or something? Well, one company at least thinks it does.
13:58:00 <ehird> Others don't though.
13:58:21 <ehird> Apparently the max here is 19.8 megabit, which beats the 6 mbit I'm getting
13:58:48 <Deewiant> As for companies like that; not to my knowledge; there's mainly the local CISAC member, Teosto
13:59:17 <ehird> All finns: Any nasty industry-standard internet censorship or deep packet inspection?
14:01:13 <Deewiant> A bit of blacklist censorship done by most ISPs; intended to be vs. child porn but there's also some other stuff (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info)
14:01:43 <ehird> Sounds like what we have here; "child porn" which includes that old album cover, oh and "race hate material" and the like
14:01:50 <ehird> Next week, "record industry hate material"
14:02:00 <Deewiant> "1047 censored websites" "nine were unrelated to pornography, 28 had content hard to categorize as legal or illegal, 46 were (legal) child modeling sites and 879 contained only legal pornography"
14:02:21 <Deewiant> Oh and "nine of the sites contained child pornography"
14:02:23 <ehird> Doesn't seem to be many providers using the list
14:02:30 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info#Status_of_lapsiporno.info_with_Finnish_Internet_service_providers
14:02:35 <Deewiant> And Elisa must've been a recent change
14:02:41 <ehird> Well, Nebula is the fast one fizzie uses iirc
14:02:42 <Deewiant> Since lapsiporno.info was blocked last I checked
14:02:47 <fizzie> Elisa was very recent.
14:03:01 <ehird> wait, they blocked a site about it?
14:03:09 <Deewiant> Anyway, if Elisa were still blocked then that'd have Elisa + Welho which are over 50%
14:03:21 <fizzie> Yes, because the site published links that were on the list.
14:03:22 <ehird> Any deep packet inspection, though?
14:03:30 <Deewiant> But then, how would I know ;-)
14:03:49 <ehird> All finns: What's a good way to learn Finnish, and how do I learn to like saunas?
14:04:18 <ehird> That question might have been a little bit joking, so to speak.
14:04:48 <fizzie> Deewiant: Citation for the reason? Well, I think that was the official reason, anyway. The site doesn't seem to answer right now.
14:05:58 <fizzie> Ah. Well, that was actually the date for when lapsiporno.info got a note about it. I assume the unblocking came first, don't know the exact date.
14:06:06 <ehird> Hmm, right, Nebula was that one that was great apart from the speed being rather unimpressive
14:06:15 <ehird> Well, I guess Ask! is a nice price for 100mbit both ways
14:06:49 <fizzie> It's "unimpressive" in the sense that it's what you get with ADSL-based technologies; I dislike the rather high price more.
14:07:48 <ehird> Well, right, I meant the price/speed ratio.
14:07:56 <fizzie> Yes, that's a bit unimpressive.
14:08:08 <ehird> Isn't Welho that 100mbit dumbpeople one?
14:08:33 <ehird> You guys seem to have the perfect internet connection, just it's scattered across a bunch of subscriptions :P
14:08:33 <fizzie> I, uh, well, not all Welho users are that dumb, I mean...
14:09:01 <ehird> They don't support IPv6 or err custom DNS or something
14:09:04 <ehird> Therefore dumbpeople
14:09:12 <ehird> Also they, like, advertise TV services
14:09:19 <ehird> And their site is ugly
14:09:20 <fizzie> It's a cable TV company, so..
14:09:20 <Deewiant> Who needs IPv6 when you can download at 110 Mbps
14:09:40 <ehird> Deewiant: But they use the blacklist too :P
14:10:07 <ehird> Morally unacceptable
14:10:15 <ehird> I don't notice the CCTV cameras around here either
14:10:24 <fizzie> Nebula's selling the "bond two ADSL2+ annex M lines together to get a 48/6M link" service, which is speedy enough, but it's a frigging 150 eur/month.
14:10:27 <Deewiant> I can understand blocking child porn
14:10:49 <ehird> I don't believe in censorship, especially when it involves looking at my packets
14:11:14 <ehird> Internet service is paying them to give you a hole in the wall with bandwidth, any crimes are your responsibility
14:11:19 <Deewiant> It's kind of impossible without looking at packets :-P
14:11:28 <ehird> Deewiant: Which makes it unacceptable
14:11:39 <Deewiant> But they have to look at your packets anyway in order to be able to route them
14:11:46 <fizzie> Maybe if you'd just look at the evil-bit-set packets.
14:11:48 <ehird> fizzie: It's way too expensive for those speeds, indeed
14:12:37 <ehird> elisa.com is a rather bad site, it lists all the broadband products only with a short summary
14:13:09 <ehird> And your bad telecom company websites
14:13:12 <Deewiant> Go to the Finnish site for more info :-P
14:13:12 <ehird> How do you sleep at night
14:13:15 <Deewiant> http://www.elisa.fi/yksityisille/laajakaista/laajakaista/tekniset_tiedot/
14:13:34 <ehird> To be fair, there wasn't a link to the Finnish site.
14:13:58 <ehird> Well, I didn't notice it :P
14:14:01 <Deewiant> www.elisa.com -> bottom of page "Suomeksi"
14:14:27 <Deewiant> Well, you can't expect to find the link if you don't speak Finnish
14:14:28 <ehird> Can't be fibr-optic
14:14:36 <ehird> So that must be some hefty ADSL
14:14:44 <ehird> Or, it's fibre-optic but they rate limited the upload
14:14:54 <ehird> Number of computers in use as early
14:15:00 <ehird> Is that a limit on how many computers you can use with it?
14:15:14 <ehird> It comes with five dynamic IPs.
14:15:28 <ehird> That's rather pointless with IPv4
14:15:30 <fizzie> "Five dynamic IPs" seems to be the de-facto "standard" around here.
14:15:42 <ehird> I've never seen more than one dynamic IP
14:17:05 <fizzie> Anyway, the "super" thing is for.. er, building-owners, to be resold to actual people-living-there; and it goes to 100M/10M only when the house in question has suitable Ethernet cabling.
14:17:27 <fizzie> It's 24M/1M for phone-cabling-only places.
14:18:54 <ehird> Reminds me of MizardX's weird click-to-switch-broadband thing.
14:19:33 <fizzie> I guess it's 1 Gbps fibre to the basement in any case. And they're only selling it (in case of existing buildings) to buildings with at least 20 apartments in them.
14:21:37 <ehird> Maybe the Swedish internet situation is better, I seem to hear a lot of good interweb thingies from there.
14:21:45 <ehird> Well, also Norway. They have a lot of fibre.
14:22:16 <fizzie> Welho's 110M/5M is probably the widestly-available fast-enough connection, and that's just because large parts of the capital-city area is in their cable TV network.
14:23:25 <fizzie> I can't seem to find any sort of comprehensive list for where Elisa's 100M/10M thing is available, just the "put your address here and we'll tell you" thing.
14:23:34 <ehird> Deewiant: But even fantasy-head-moving because of just internet would be unacceptable without taking the time to fantasy-head-move to somewhere with a decent political system :p
14:24:17 <ehird> You European social democracies collect political parties like Pokemon.
14:24:21 <ehird> How many are there now, 152?
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14:33:44 <fizzie> If you're still speaking of Finland, we only have 15 currently registered political parties. A total sum of everything in Europe would be quite a lot, I guess.
14:33:59 <ehird> I was joking; 152 = initial pokemon + 1.
14:34:13 <ehird> Doesn't Sweden have like 17 with seats?
14:34:36 <fizzie> Don't know; we have 8 of those.
14:34:54 <ehird> Meanwhile, in the world where everything is backwards: "SSDs are best for sequential writes and HDDs are best for random writes."
14:35:50 <fizzie> Their Parliament is bigger; 349 seats, compared to our 200. You can fit more parties in there.
14:35:55 <fizzie> I'm sure their building is also bigger.
14:36:13 <ehird> Yes. They can fit bigger people because their seats are bigger because their building is bigger.
14:36:17 <fizzie> Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Riksdagen-fran-vattnet-2004-05-09.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eduskuntatalo_(Finnish_Parliament_building).JPG
14:36:20 <ehird> This helps because Swedish people are bigger.
14:36:39 <ehird> fizzie: I didn't know Finland was located in Ancient Greece!
14:36:49 <fizzie> It's a little-known fact.
14:37:04 <ehird> Many people do not know that.
14:38:52 <ehird> Meanwhile: http://buttersafe.com/comics/2009-09-01-theevilplan.jpg
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14:39:11 <fizzie> I guess they're using that picture, as it's more imposing; Wikipedia does have one which shows the complete structure -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Parliament_House_of_Finland.jpg -- but in that one it's not so impressive.
14:39:28 <ehird> Maxisat? More like
14:39:31 <ehird> Marxisat? More like
14:39:43 <ehird> Karl Marx? More like
14:39:54 <fizzie> They do IPTV things, actually.
14:40:15 <fizzie> Oh, and sell broadband internet. :p
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15:02:55 <ehird> I wish I had some Haskell to code :P
15:05:23 <Deewiant> There's plenty of Haskell in the world
15:06:10 <fizzie> The phrase "I can has kell" popped into my mind.
15:07:09 <ehird> Deewiant: That is true
15:07:18 <ehird> What's that got to do with wanting to write something that haskell would fit nicely
15:07:35 <Deewiant> It means there's plenty of stuff to hack on if that's what you want to do
15:08:38 <ehird> Deewiant: It's icky practical software by Other People Who Are Bad Coders. :P
15:09:08 <Deewiant> I take it the "who are bad coders" comes by default since it's "other people"?
15:12:24 <Deewiant> That attitude does limit your options somewhat
15:12:57 <Deewiant> I was going to suggest improving my fungifier but you can also code a better one from scratch, if you want; it's fairly short
15:13:16 <ehird> i'd just end up bruteforcing i
15:13:22 <ehird> i don't think there's an eleganty algo to do it
15:13:26 <Deewiant> You can do that too, if it ends up fast enough :-P
15:13:39 <ehird> alas i cannot transcend the laws of physisc
15:16:11 <ehird> Slereah: sweet, gimme my infinity machine
15:16:28 <Deewiant> ehird: So you want not only some Haskell, but some Haskell that implements an elegant algorithm? :-P
15:16:44 <ehird> well the task is boring in itself imo
15:17:07 <ehird> it's pretty much factoring + subtract and factor
15:18:32 <Slereah> Feeling a bit lazy right no
15:18:44 <Deewiant> Newsflash: most tasks are boring especially when summarized in a single sentence :-P
15:19:03 <ehird> well that's a perfectly passable algo really
15:19:56 <ehird> 1234 → (for base 10) 2*(1+(8*7*(1+(2*5))))
15:20:13 <ehird> admittedly not exceedingly good
15:20:39 <ehird> but if 5 words, one being "+", can describe a half-passable algorithm it's probably just a boring hill-climb with slightly better and better heuristics
15:21:31 <Deewiant> That's better than what my current one gets allowing only decimals
15:23:15 <ehird> Deewiant: Gimme a number yours does well on and I'll give it a crack with my uber-tedious algo
15:23:20 <ehird> Also, trivial optimisation of mine:
15:23:49 <Deewiant> I don't know, what's "well" :-P
15:24:30 <ehird> Deewiant: Shortly?
15:24:32 <ehird> Just gimme a number :P
15:25:42 <ehird> 3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*2*2*3*3))))
15:25:44 <ehird> trivial reduction:
15:25:54 <ehird> 3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(8**3*(1+(8*9))))
15:26:05 <fizzie> 57*:*9+ with some Human Ingenuity, which no computar in the world can match.
15:26:21 <ehird> 89*1+83*1+25*1+3**
15:26:30 <ehird> trivially simplify:
15:27:02 <ehird> I've got a trailing * there
15:28:01 <ehird> 89*1+83**1+25*1+*3*
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15:29:10 <ehird> Deewiant: what does yours give?
15:29:25 <fizzie> The square-root finding I did manually might even make sense.
15:29:27 <ehird> fizzie: remember that this algo is four words and a symbol :P
15:29:37 <ehird> just saying that the problem is kinda trivial
15:29:53 <ehird> Eh, so I reduced wrong at some point
15:29:56 <Deewiant> Mine gives 392+13898:*+**+** using decimals
15:29:59 <ehird> I'm tired; what to do is obvious
15:30:12 <oklopol> it's not a trivial problem just because it can't be solved
15:30:17 <ehird> Deewiant: So shorter than my initial one just by a char
15:30:41 <ehird> Kinda yawnsville, yah?
15:31:40 <fizzie> I wouldn't call it trivial, anyway. I'm sure it gets really quite interesting when the numbers are large enough that loops start to make sense.
15:31:42 <Asztal> Deewiant: is yours doing something with prime factors?
15:32:10 <Asztal> but what does it do when it gets to 1753?
15:32:19 <ehird> For mine, it subtracts one and refactors
15:32:34 <ehird> Deewiant: Give me a large number
15:32:39 <Deewiant> ehird: 8119824918791285132865191
15:32:46 <ehird> Oh you just hate me.
15:32:50 <ehird> I haven't automated this you know.
15:32:58 <Deewiant> Split it in half until it's small enough :-P
15:33:03 <ehird> Heh, it reduces to a whole bunch of 2*2*2*2* with factor(1)
15:33:11 <ehird> Then 23, then 54798378614461
15:33:23 <ehird> Just take the easy way out, why don'tcha
15:33:30 <ehird> oklopol: factor unix program
15:33:40 <Deewiant> Asztal: Mine grabs the one with most factors that it can subtract to
15:33:43 <oklopol> i thought you said 2 is a factor of 8119824918791285132865191
15:33:48 <Deewiant> In the hopes that those are easier to reduce
15:33:53 <ehird> It is, just not a prime factor :P
15:34:09 <ehird> wait, is factor(1) broken?
15:34:12 <Deewiant> The number is odd so 2 can't be a factor of it
15:34:14 <fizzie> Your factor(1) must be pretty strange then.
15:34:15 <ehird> i am barely awake here btw
15:34:20 <ehird> fizzie: maybe overflow
15:34:20 <oklopol> i wish there was like an ignore that ignored ehird when there's math being talked about
15:34:29 <fizzie> Mine just says: factor: `8119824918791285132865191' is too large
15:34:30 <Deewiant> Some factor(1)s don't support bigger than machine-sized ints
15:34:36 <Deewiant> Mine says: 8119824918791285132865191: 13960227797 581639858379403
15:35:07 <ehird> 8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*6*23*54798378614461 certainly = 8119824918791285132865191
15:35:20 <ehird> it looks like it does
15:35:26 <ehird> but then goes and diverges on yo ass
15:35:29 <ehird> damn you factor(1)
15:35:37 <ehird> let me install gnu factor or something
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15:42:37 <ehird> To fully converting it
15:44:25 <ehird> (1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*3*3))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*2*3))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*3*5*7))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*3*3*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*3*3))))))))
15:45:44 <ehird> (1+(4*(1+(4*(1+(4*9))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*9*(1+(4*3))*(1+(2*9*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(4*(1+(6*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*9*5*7))*(1+(6*(1+(4*(1+(6*9*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(4*6*(1+(2*9))))))))
15:45:51 <ehird> Deewiant: You can RPN that yourself :P
15:45:53 <ehird> What does yours output?
15:46:12 <Deewiant> 68888888888728*+145994+75838:*+**+76599458**+2379**+****+*****+************
15:46:32 <oklopol> would be easier to just write it in say base 9
15:46:39 <oklopol> would be shorter than Deewiant's too
15:46:43 <Deewiant> '08'@"@@@"f8+'½8';"@SZ@"*+"¿0@e"**+****+*******, the latin-1, is much nicer
15:46:53 <ehird> Removing parens (that'll be how long it is in RPN) gives 125 for mine, 75 for yours
15:47:11 <ehird> Pretty funny how well a 4 words+symbol algo is doing against your long prog :P
15:47:29 <oklopol> funny how the trivial solution is better than either of yours
15:47:47 <Deewiant> My long prog generalizes to a bunch of stuff
15:47:48 <oklopol> maybe because it's a trivial problem
15:48:06 <ehird> oklopol: which trivial solution
15:48:11 <ehird> Deewiant: True, still
15:48:17 <oklopol> Deewiant: i'm just angry at internet, and tired enough to project.
15:48:17 <ehird> Deewiant: I can think of a bunch of brute-force improvements to mine
15:48:19 <Deewiant> And it isn't that long, either
15:48:22 <ehird> e.g. subtract a variable amount
15:48:37 <Deewiant> Sure, bruteforcing is an improvement but also fucking slow :-P
15:48:40 <oklopol> ehird: just write it in the normal canonical number notation
15:48:49 <ehird> oklopol: that does not execute in befunge
15:48:49 <oklopol> in base 9, if you don't have an A
15:48:52 <ehird> Deewiant: not really
15:49:04 <ehird> it's obvious when you'll run into diminishing returns
15:49:38 <oklopol> wouldn't d9*d+9*d+9*... work?
15:49:51 <oklopol> four chars per digit, might lose to Deewiant, too hard to calculate
15:50:02 <fizzie> 19*2+9*2+9*7+9*1+9*3+9*4+9*8+9*7+9*5+9*0+9*8+9*6+9*4+9*5+9*3+9*5+9*5+9*3+9*4+9*1+9*1+9*3+9*6+9*8+9*6+9*3+
15:50:07 <ehird> Deewiant's wins massively on... other numbers
15:50:18 <Deewiant> Since this is a 25-digit number.
15:50:37 <fizzie> It's 122713487508645355341136863 in base-9.
15:50:55 <ehird> oklopol: we have a-f actually.
15:50:58 <ehird> we're just not using them
15:51:00 <oklopol> anyway, as i said, i was just projecting.
15:51:12 <oklopol> i just want to load like 3 pages
15:51:26 <Deewiant> With a-f it's a bit shorter: 88688888888f8+d6781489**+1459**+3488f4+1a8:**+****+*****+************
15:51:32 <ehird> oklopol: are you using that gprs thing
15:51:37 <oklopol> Deewiant: how long would mine be?
15:51:44 <oklopol> ehird: no, neighbor's net.
15:51:56 <ehird> oklopol: complain to your neighbour :P
15:52:00 <Deewiant> oklopol: 2009-09-01 17:50:54 ( Deewiant) In base 9 it'd be 105?
15:52:16 <fizzie> 19642DA3B3043453DAA0CB in base-15, with approximately *4 for the "+f*" parts in-between.
15:52:23 <fizzie> (Uppercase since that's what bc outputs.)
15:53:15 <Deewiant> Oh right, ceiling the end result isn't quite enough is it
15:53:30 <oklopol> because the first one doesn't need a +
15:54:14 <oklopol> (which you should, if you call it an algorithm)
15:54:31 <Deewiant> I call lots of simple things algorithms
15:54:38 <oklopol> because this is just a call to zip
15:55:13 <oklopol> well, umm. it was just a figure of your mom
15:56:31 <ehird> your mom and ] totally rhyme
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16:15:06 <oerjan> <ehird> I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person."
16:15:50 <oerjan> i'm more worried about my impression that xkcd sometimes seems to be referencing reddit lately...
16:16:16 <oerjan> i wonder if he is spending too much time there ;D
16:17:24 <oerjan> otoh they _do_ have some kind of business partnership
16:17:52 <ehird> they're in business together selling shitty ties
16:18:19 <oerjan> hm shitty ties. something for GregorR?
16:18:58 <fizzie> Oh, and speaking of 8119824918791285132865191:
16:18:59 <fizzie> 3176727665646579168954283320> \:#v_.@
16:19:17 <oerjan> <ehirdium> Hallo. <-- scariest atomic element ever
16:19:52 <fizzie> 3176727665646579168954283320>\#+:#* #9 #\ #- #1_
16:20:16 <ehird> Yes, that would be a base loop.
16:20:32 <ehird> fizzie: why not... base 10?
16:20:40 <Deewiant> fizzie: You need a $ at the end
16:20:51 <ehird> oerjan: 'tis a reference to adium and also scary.
16:21:18 <fizzie> Did 1+ to the base-9 digits to have 0 more easily usable as a end-of-digits marker.
16:21:47 <ehird> But, err, you have 0 at the top of the stack.
16:22:04 <fizzie> That's the accumulator.
16:22:08 <fizzie> Well, if you can call it that.
16:22:30 <oerjan> the accumulator, it's accumulating
16:22:57 <fizzie> Accumulonimbus clouds today.
16:23:54 <ehird> acacumollofdimbus on the rimbus its like a rombhus but you dont hve to worry oh no
16:24:24 <fizzie> Rombhus is a type of house, I think.
16:25:49 <ehird> "—and he build a crooked house—" was about gay arriage in rhombusses
16:26:15 <ehird> rhombu bus s yststem
16:26:17 <ehird> gets you from A to B
16:27:12 <ehird> horseless arriages
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16:27:52 <ehird> we're talking about gay marriage in 4-dimensional shapes
16:27:57 <ehird> well, just me rather
16:28:04 <ais523> hmm... well, I'm not particularly surprised
16:28:11 <ehird> rhombuses aren't 4 dimensional
16:28:21 <ehird> but "—and he built a crooked house—" was about a tesseract
16:28:24 <ehird> but I said build, not built
16:28:45 <ehird> SO THEREFORE MAGIC HAPPENS HERE and we come back to comprehension on the rhombus bus services, gets you from A to B in a rhombus
16:30:00 <ehird> do you understand ais523.
16:30:31 <ais523> possibly I could if I wanted to
16:30:49 <ehird> you will never be salvaged from the burning ruins of a dead rhombusbus, gets you from A to B in a rhombus
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16:34:14 * oerjan now wonders what the heck Picard-Vessiot theory has to do with the possibility of four-dimensional houses
16:34:27 <fizzie> Deewiant: If I got my base-64 right, this one assumes only ASCII. The "decompression" takes up more space than the "digits" even for 8119824918791285132865191, though:
16:34:29 <fizzie> "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #* #8 #8 #\ #- #* #8 #8_$
16:34:49 <ehird> I don't see where you got Picard-Vessiot theory from
16:34:55 <oerjan> ehird: it's mentioned in wp's article on "And he built a crooked house"
16:35:10 <ehird> *“—And He Built a Crooked House—”
16:35:11 <oerjan> the link leads to a page on galois theory which doesn't mention the term
16:35:12 <Deewiant> fizzie: That's a bit longer than the base-9 one, isn't it?
16:35:27 <ehird> oerjan: eh, just read the story
16:35:39 <fizzie> Deewiant: Yes, by one character, if I add the missing $ there too.
16:36:10 <fizzie> The repetition of 88* is inelegant, but \ is so limited.
16:36:42 <oerjan> ehird: nah, i'm just suspecting technobabble here
16:36:55 <ehird> I don't recall any technobabble
16:37:01 <ehird> It's a good story anyway
16:37:25 <Deewiant> I wonder what the minimal number is whereafter parsers like that take up less space than plain +*-representations of the number
16:38:10 <ehird> oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20000902022857/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html
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16:38:14 <ehird> Hasn't fully loaded for me yet, but
16:38:46 <ehird> Nope, just errors out
16:39:02 * ehird tries a later date
16:39:38 <fizzie> Deewiant: Reusing the obvious \ both ways make the base-64 one shorter by one char than the base-9: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #* #* #8 #8\ #- #* #8 #8_$
16:39:52 <ehird> Deewiant: Flash detection fails here
16:40:03 <ehird> oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20080115153446/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html
16:40:05 <ehird> Loads quickly, etc.
16:40:16 <ais523> what lang is that? Befunge?
16:40:26 <Deewiant> ehird: Loads much slower than the other one :-P
16:40:33 <ehird> Deewiant: Stop living in opposites world.
16:41:06 <oerjan> Deewiant: erm the other one errored out for me
16:41:31 <ehird> Annoyingly, I need to resize my window small
16:41:33 <Deewiant> I'm even starting to get pictures :-O
16:41:36 <ehird> Otherwise the black text goes on the green background
16:41:46 <Deewiant> ehird: The old link doesn't have that problem
16:41:55 <ehird> Yes, but it also redirects my browser
16:42:16 <Deewiant> This is why we have things like NoScript.
16:42:29 <ehird> This is why we have things like not using shitty websites
16:43:17 <fizzie> Deewiant: Still a bit shorter: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #@' $#\ #- #@' $# _$
16:43:19 <oerjan> ah thanks for the resizing tip
16:43:42 <ehird> 3$&*(#Y$(&#*$(& to you too
16:44:05 <fizzie> The $s ate a bit of the savings '@ gave me over 88*.
16:44:42 <Deewiant> Would it take less space to use "" and k$ instead of #?
16:45:06 <fizzie> Actually it seems to be rather nice with just "" both ways, since I don't have to jump over the @ then.
16:46:25 <fizzie> Possibly this would work, haven't tested: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #*"@"$#\\#-"@"$# _$
16:48:37 <Deewiant> Ah, but neither did the previous.
16:48:55 <fizzie> Well, there could be some other error. I don't have a bignum funge, I've just been thinking aloud here.
16:49:10 <Deewiant> They do all give the same number (90), though. :-P
16:49:42 <fizzie> I tested the base-9 for a smaller number, so the theory is sound. :p
16:49:59 <fizzie> Right, the : there is before the \.
16:49:59 <Deewiant> Yes, base-9 works, but your base-64 doesn't.
16:50:26 <fizzie> Try something like "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+ #*"@"$#\:#-"@"$# _$
16:52:20 <fizzie> I did the base-64 digits manually, since bc(1) only goes up to obase=16, based on the obase=2 binary output of 8119824918791285132865191, so an error might've crept in.
16:52:59 <fizzie> Yes, there's one flipped bit in there.
16:53:09 <fizzie> Somewhere around the middle of it.
16:53:49 <fizzie> 8119824918791285132865191-8119824918791284998647463 = 134217728 = 2^27, so it's that bit.
16:54:42 <fizzie> Anyway, I'm sure that with enough ingenuity it's possible to use that same "@" to provide both the '@- and the '@* numbers. Maybe I should try to permute it a bit.
16:56:41 <fizzie> Can it really be as simple as "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\\# _$ or did I mess something new up, in addition to that one digit?
16:57:25 <fizzie> Er, I obviously mean the less retarded "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\_$
16:57:30 <Deewiant> You can get Erlang and efunge and try it yourself, if you like
16:57:48 <fizzie> I'm at work... hey, wait, there's Erlang on this thing.
16:58:02 <Deewiant> That latest one seems to be an infinite loop
16:58:13 <fizzie> Yes, it's missing one space.
16:58:23 <fizzie> "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$
16:58:28 <ehird> It's probably not the latest erlang v2009-08.
16:58:46 <fizzie> It's "Erlang (BEAM) emulator version 5.6.3", whatever that means. Probably ancient.
16:59:20 <Deewiant> Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things
16:59:45 <Deewiant> Anyway, that is indeed 8119824918791284998647463
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17:00:22 <fizzie> Well, now, that last one has a pretty nifty base-64-depackifier. I ♥ befunge.
17:00:40 <ehird> ais523: you know how you said 9-nines would be ridiculous?
17:00:52 -!- oerjan has quit ("Later").
17:00:53 <ais523> ehird: in what context?
17:02:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:02:49 <Deewiant> fizzie: Is your base-64 just 64 characters starting at '@'?
17:02:56 <fizzie> "AXD301 -- 99.9999999% reliability (9 nines) (31 ms. year!)"
17:03:10 <fizzie> Deewiant: Yes, it's not the more common base-64.
17:03:36 <Deewiant> fizzie: But the printable characters end at 126
17:04:08 <fizzie> Deewiant: Fortunately your example number didn't have any other digits. :p
17:04:43 <fizzie> Deewiant: You can trivially change that to "base-63 starting from ASCII '?'" with a s/@/?/.
17:04:44 <ehird> fizzie: Yeah, that's what I meant
17:04:52 <ehird> It's an Erlang switcher system thing
17:04:52 <Deewiant> You can do base-96 if you start from ' '
17:04:59 <ehird> How on earth can they commit to 9 nines; it becomes meaningless at that point
17:12:20 <fizzie> But then I'd lose the nifty "substract and multiply constant both ways" thing.
17:12:20 <fizzie> Would be an advantage for larger numbers, sure.
17:12:20 <ehird> Bicurious Befunge: "I'll subtract and multiply your constant both ways, baby."
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17:12:20 <fizzie> Deewiant: I could start from '#' since then I could do '# which is push-35 in one direction and do-nothing the other way. Still wouldn't be quite that short though.
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17:12:20 <Deewiant> Hmm, 2^64-1 is ff2+14'@*+1a'@*+128'@:***+"a7 /Q"***+*****
17:12:20 <Deewiant> By that time it's already better to use that base-64-reader
17:12:21 <Deewiant> Of course, it's also 28'@'@:*:**:***1- if you apply some extra cleverness
17:13:53 <fizzie> You can do 0 ... 63^11-1 = 62050608388552823487 > 2^64 with 11 base-64 digits, and the extraction part -- 0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$ -- is 17 characters, so that's an upper bound of 28 characters for any constant for a "normal" funge on a "normal" machine.
17:14:26 <fizzie> Er, base-63, I mean, and ? instead of @ there.
17:14:47 <ehird> Bongggggggggggggggggggg
17:15:19 <Deewiant> 63^11-1 is a nice one: "?11111QQ":*:********
17:17:13 <fizzie> That's certainly nicer than the base-63 representation, "}}}}}}}}}}}"0>\#+:#*"?"-# \_$ (again untested)
17:17:40 <ehird> "Factoring large prime numbers is, in general, hard."
17:17:40 <ehird> — GNU Coreutils manual
17:18:20 <Deewiant> You think that doesn't belong in a manual?
17:19:11 <ehird> It's sort of like saying "Removing a file will render you unable to access its contents" in the rm manual :P
17:19:19 <ehird> Meh, I just found it funny
17:19:38 <Deewiant> The latter is kind of obvious, the former is specialized knowledge
17:20:00 <fizzie> It also continues with relevant stuff: "The Pollard Rho algorithm used by factor is particularly effective for numbers with relatively small factors. If you wish to factor large numbers which do not have small factors (for example, numbers which are the product of two large primes), other methods are far better."
17:20:01 <Deewiant> I wouldn't expect people to know that factorization is computationally hard unless they're computer-sciencey
17:20:36 <fizzie> Though they could say "(for example, if you are trying to break RSA encryption)" there.
17:23:09 <ehird> I hope nobody does that :P
17:23:34 <fizzie> Try to break RSA with factor(1).
17:23:57 <ehird> Yes but there is sort of a lot of stuff encrypted with RSA.
17:24:16 <fizzie> Yes, it is concievable that NSA's secret factorization algorithms have accidentally ended up in GNU Coreutils.
17:24:46 <ehird> Deewiant: How much stuff have you got encrypted with pgp?
17:25:42 <Deewiant> Even if I had, I wouldn't worry
17:25:45 <ehird> It'd just melt down all of our current security entirely
17:25:49 <ehird> which isn't very good
17:27:31 <ehird> Deewiant: What wouldn't?
17:27:46 <ehird> fizzie added factor(1) as a joke
17:27:50 <ehird> I never said factor(1)
17:28:03 <Deewiant> Oh, I thought he clarified what you meant
17:33:11 <ehird> I want to make a cocktail of like 10 energy drinks.
17:33:18 <ehird> And not drink it due to valuing my life.
17:33:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, factor(1) errors out for too large numbers iirc
17:34:13 <fizzie> If it's the coreutils one, you can compile it with GMP support for large numbers.
17:34:29 <ehird> % gfactor 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
17:34:31 <AnMaster> ah indeed.. it errors out on my ubuntu system but not my gentoo desktop
17:34:35 <ehird> Maybe I shouldn't have picked such a big counterexample.
17:36:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, you can make use of multiple cpus to speed up factoring right?
17:36:28 <AnMaster> well depends on your algorithm. At least the naive one should be easy to speed up that way
17:37:11 <fizzie> No-one factors large numbers with that one, though. But yes, I think there are good parallel algorithms for it.
17:37:37 <fizzie> What I have no clue about is the state-of-the-art in number-factoring.
17:38:05 <ehird> "We can break real-world RSA in 2^97 years!"
17:38:37 <AnMaster> fizzie, of course no one use the naive one for large numbers. At least no one sane.
17:41:06 <fizzie> Based on some quick googling, the current records from the RSA Factoring Challenge were done on an 80-node cluster.
17:41:13 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things
17:42:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no warnings on V5.7.2 for me with trunk or athr branch.
17:42:58 <fizzie> "The efunge version I've got here" sounds like it might not be the newest.
17:43:11 <AnMaster> you use lp:efunge/trunk right? Not on rage.kuonet.org (see bzr info, look for "parent branch")
17:43:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, btw 5.6.3 is probably too old
17:44:03 <AnMaster> I'm pretty sure that at least input will cause an exception with that old version.
17:44:30 <AnMaster> R13B or later is pretty much required, since I use some unicode stuff that was added in that version
17:47:42 <Deewiant> I don't know what it was, some old trunk I haven't updated in months
17:48:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, just curious, what was reported as deprecated?
17:48:17 <Deewiant> IIRC something about "array" or some such now being a primitive
17:48:45 <Deewiant> Something becoming standard and thus using it in a variable name is deprecated, or something like that
17:48:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh right, remember that. Yeah your copy is outdated
17:49:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well a type spec name in fact
17:49:11 <Deewiant> Yes, I knew that it was outdated
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18:22:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw, most of your projects seems to be in haskell rather than D. Why didn't you decide to code ccbi2 in haskell too?
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18:59:00 <Asztal> speaking for myself, it can be hard to predict performance in Haskell
19:11:23 <AnMaster> Asztal, considering how much Deewiant complained about the hash library in D recently I think his opinion is it is hard to predict performance in D too XD
19:11:35 <AnMaster> (tends to be rather easy in C though)
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20:34:20 <nooga> set f {x y: x+y} print f 1 2 #=> 3
20:35:50 <nooga> set [: {until :] items : map items {x: x*2}} [[: 1 2 3 :] [: 4 :]] #=> [[2 4 6] [8]]
20:37:26 <AnMaster> editing the panel in gnome is seriously annoying
20:37:43 <AnMaster> possibly the "lock to panel" thingy is messing things up
20:38:17 <nooga> set unless {cond `begin until `end terms : if not cond terms}
20:38:32 <nooga> unless == a b begin do_sth end
20:38:54 <nooga> defining functions with own pattern that parses args
20:41:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Nah, it's fairly easy to predict in D.
20:41:56 <AnMaster> nooga, to me it looks vaguely like a mix of perl and some functional language XD
20:42:02 <nooga> liek sadol with longer IDs, lambda and this pattern thingy
20:42:21 <Deewiant> AnMaster: If it's a feature built in to the compiler, then yeah. ;-)
20:42:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, isn't the language itself built in?
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20:42:52 <Deewiant> Yes yes, you know what I meant. :-P
20:42:54 <AnMaster> it sucks by weird compiler bugs
20:42:54 <nooga> lol, i wrote 'liek' accidentally for the first time in my life
20:43:27 <Deewiant> As for CCBI2, two reasons: 1. I had 6000 lines of D code for a Befunge interp already... 2. Since we're all performance-crazy and the whole thing is rather imperative in nature, Haskell isn't that great a fit.
20:43:32 <nooga> what are you talking about? :|
20:44:20 <Deewiant> AnMaster: That's not a weird bug, it's quite a sensible one actually.
20:44:27 <nooga> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ccbi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
20:44:35 <Deewiant> One of them is still unfixed, even.
20:44:51 <AnMaster> Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total
20:44:51 <AnMaster> ---------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
20:44:51 <AnMaster> c 95 8848 3542 28.6% 1597 13987
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20:44:53 <Deewiant> It doesn't really matter since the mangled name contains the module where it is :-P
20:44:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 6800 lines isn't a lot
20:45:04 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It was less than 10000 last I checked.
20:45:26 <Deewiant> It's probably more like 8000 though.
20:45:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, plus another 2745 LOC (4573 total) for the lib directory, which contains libghthash and genx
20:46:01 <nooga> what about your bf to C ?
20:46:14 <AnMaster> nooga, and they are all dormant
20:46:50 <nooga> why's that? i thought that was a rather interesting topic
20:47:45 <AnMaster> nooga, didn't know enough CS to write a better optimiser at that time. My choice of design was a bit limited. Maybe I'll write yet another one in a few years.
20:48:20 <AnMaster> as in, I couldn't work out how to work the graphs :P
20:48:25 <nooga> the firs thing i thought about was Counter-Strike
20:48:37 <AnMaster> nooga, that is the last thing that would come to my mind for CS
20:48:58 <AnMaster> 1) computer science 2) file extension for C# 3) hm no idea... 4) oh wait... 5) wasn
20:48:59 <nooga> maybe that's because i played half-life 1 for last 12h
20:49:09 <AnMaster> 6) damn don't remember what that game was called
20:49:21 <AnMaster> nooga, I never played half life
20:49:48 <nooga> but hl1 is a memmory from childhood
20:50:37 <AnMaster> and when you played half life?
20:51:09 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(video_game)
20:51:43 <AnMaster> and yes I know it is a game, I just wonder what element the title of that game refers too
20:52:21 <nooga> i think it refers to some person that if half dead
20:53:25 <nooga> no, it's just fucking awesome
20:53:38 <AnMaster> nooga, I never liked first person shooters
20:54:02 <nooga> buut that one is cool
20:54:11 <AnMaster> nor third person shooters btw.
20:54:14 <Deewiant> Half-Life is just a scientific term, it has no particular meaning in the context of the game
20:54:21 <AnMaster> though first person ones are worse
20:54:31 <Deewiant> They have expansions called "Blue Shift" and such, too.
20:54:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, blue shift refers to Doppler effect?
20:55:10 <AnMaster> I can't think of anything else it could refer to
20:55:22 <nooga> funny: if you translate half-life to Polish it will look like: czas połowicznego rozpadu
20:55:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so what has that got to do with half life?
20:55:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Nothing, as I just explained.
20:55:54 <nooga> blie shift -> przesunięcie ku fioletowi
20:55:56 <AnMaster> I guess uranium travelling at high speed towards you would blue shift ;P
20:56:28 <AnMaster> en:half-life = sv:halveringstid
20:56:41 <AnMaster> lets hear the fi one Deewiant!
20:56:54 <AnMaster> nooga, it literally means "halving-time"
20:57:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how the hell do you pronounce it
20:57:30 <Deewiant> And also literally "halving-time"
20:58:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what is the dirt below the n and the t?
20:58:23 <Deewiant> I'm not sure, I just copied that from Wiktionary
20:58:27 <nooga> pl:czas połowicznego rozpadu = en:half decay time
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20:59:31 <Deewiant> Evidently it means they're dental consonants
21:00:16 <Deewiant> If you wanted to know what ̪ /is/, it's U+032A COMBINING BRIDGE BELOW
21:00:24 <AnMaster> it seems en:blue shift is sv:blåförskjutning according to Wikipedia
21:01:02 <FireFly> Blåförskjutning.. I think I've heard about that once
21:01:05 <AnMaster> well literal translation of the sv: one would end up as blue shift I think
21:01:23 <AnMaster> FireFly, rödförskjutning too it seems
21:01:34 <FireFly> Haven't heard about that one, though
21:01:41 <FireFly> "Blåförskjutning är motsatsen till rödförskjutning"
21:01:50 <nooga> how would you write swedish word "lax" in IPA?
21:01:56 <AnMaster> FireFly, well the red one isn't a stub
21:01:59 <Deewiant> Funny, I'd've thought red shift is better known
21:02:00 <FireFly> Ah, the article about the red one was a bit longer
21:02:53 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> Deewiant, why is that <Deewiant> Yes
21:03:01 <AnMaster> <FireFly> Oh, great information
21:03:02 <Deewiant> AnMaster: That's not what you asked
21:03:14 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> Deewiant, why is that
21:03:27 <Deewiant> 2009-09-01 23:02:15 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, oh?
21:03:27 <Deewiant> 2009-09-01 23:02:29 ( Deewiant) Yes
21:03:27 <Deewiant> 2009-09-01 23:02:32 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, why is that
21:03:38 <FireFly> [22:02:15] <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh?
21:03:38 <FireFly> [22:02:32] <AnMaster> Deewiant, why is that
21:03:48 <AnMaster> there was a 2 sec difference here :P
21:04:05 <Deewiant> Anyway, for the "why", redshift is much more prominent in astronomy
21:04:24 <FireFly> " I vissa fall förekommer också det motsatta fenomenet, blåförskjutning."
21:04:33 <FireFly> Seems like blue ones are less common
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21:04:38 <FireFly> And therefore more unknown?
21:04:45 <nooga> from CS to red shift
21:04:55 <AnMaster> nooga, what a shift of topic ;P
21:05:57 <FireFly> Yeah, #esoteric, and therefore we may not talk about anything remotely related to esolangs
21:06:49 <Deewiant> Well, redshift is just what you're more likely to run into so I'd consider it more likely that one has never heard of blueshift
21:06:59 <AnMaster> FireFly, we did talk about ccbi above
21:07:04 <Deewiant> Of course, if you actually know what either is, it should be obvious what the other is.
21:07:36 <FireFly> AnMaster, you said it again!
21:07:38 <Deewiant> That'll make sure all discussion is on-topic, at least
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21:11:34 <FireFly> You talked about esolangs again, or rather, mentioned ccbi
21:11:56 <FireFly> And it was a semi-pun of the Holy Grail knights who say Ni
21:12:15 <AnMaster> FireFly, that reference was too far fetched by far
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21:12:39 <FireFly> far too far fetched by far
21:12:53 <AnMaster> FireFly, ah yes that would have been even better
21:13:40 <AnMaster> FireFly, I'm pretty sure "you said it again" is not unique to the knights who use the Swedish word for first person plural :P
21:14:12 <FireFly> Definitely not first person, at least
21:14:23 <nooga> TYPO!!!!!!!!!@@!!21212
21:15:06 <FireFly> You probably want "vet" there
21:15:41 <FireFly> Swedish must be confusing for someone not knowing the language at all
21:16:14 <FireFly> But so is probably all languages, depending on how far away they are from other languages one knows
21:16:33 <nooga> my brother speaks swedish almost fluently
21:16:43 <AnMaster> FireFly, do you think that smorgasbord is one of the funniest English words?
21:16:58 <nooga> just from reading few books and listening swedish radio
21:17:02 <Deewiant> I think it's one of those stupidest loan words
21:17:10 <AnMaster> FireFly, yes, they copied it and dropped the dots
21:17:11 <nooga> and being there for a month
21:17:11 <FireFly> ...is it an english loan word?
21:17:20 <AnMaster> FireFly, they loaned it from Swedish
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21:17:42 <FireFly> But I guess it's partly because I'm used to it
21:17:50 <FireFly> To the swedish one, I mean
21:18:09 <nooga> en:smorgasbord = pl:szwedzki stół
21:18:10 <AnMaster> FireFly, they loaned ombudsman too btw
21:18:24 <nooga> whish means literally Swedish table
21:18:33 <Deewiant> English is a parasite, feeding off other languages
21:18:34 <FireFly> I mean, sandwhich table sounds all right to me
21:18:43 <AnMaster> FireFly, I guess because we invented the concept
21:18:53 <nooga> btw. GOD I LOVE FOOD AT IKEA
21:19:01 <AnMaster> FireFly, iirc they loaned gravad lax too... but for once put it into *one* word
21:19:08 <FireFly> A friend of mine ate swedish meatballs when he was in the States
21:19:11 <AnMaster> usually it is Swedish that writes words together instead
21:19:12 <Deewiant> Finns have had it as long as the Swedes, I think
21:19:41 <FireFly> Not that kind of grave accent
21:19:46 <AnMaster> FireFly, gravadlax ... doesn't that look weird?
21:20:21 <AnMaster> FireFly, iirc that is how they do it. Unlike Swedish.. for once
21:20:45 <FireFly> And I'm happy we didn't invent a word for it
21:21:13 <AnMaster> FireFly, iirc norwegian translated broadcasting to "kringkastning". Not sure what the Swedish word is in fact
21:21:41 <nooga> that reminds me I'm hungry
21:22:00 <AnMaster> nooga, no you are Polish, not from hungry :P
21:22:47 <AnMaster> which was what made the pun so bad
21:22:51 <FireFly> "from hungry" doesn't make sense
21:22:59 <FireFly> At least you could spell out the country name :P
21:23:25 <AnMaster> FireFly, that is en:send right?
21:23:41 <AnMaster> FireFly, it would be more like sänd till alla
21:23:51 <FireFly> To transmit a message or signal via radio waves or electronic means
21:24:40 <FireFly> Uh, yeah, better translation
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21:24:51 <AnMaster> FireFly, direktsändning would be live broadcasting then?
21:24:59 <AnMaster> or why did you mention it above
21:25:21 <FireFly> Referring to an interpreter as "tydare" would look strange
21:25:57 <FireFly> tolk would me more like compiler
21:26:10 <Deewiant> fi:tulkki = en:interpreter in the context of computers as well
21:27:38 <AnMaster> FireFly, actually, tab inserts , and space
21:27:53 <nooga> FireFly: no it does not
21:28:04 <nooga> it inserts : and space
21:28:14 <FireFly> Depends on the settings of your client, pretty much
21:28:15 <AnMaster> nooga, .................... stop being silly..... depends on client of course
21:28:31 <FireFly> But I want my tab to autocomplete with only nick
21:28:51 <AnMaster> FireFly, unless at start of line it just completes with space :P
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21:29:07 <AnMaster> FireFly, FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly <-- like that, was just f<tab> a few times
21:29:26 <Deewiant> spam: spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
21:30:12 <AnMaster> fuck oru.se.... needs to be www.oru.se
21:31:48 <AnMaster> Datateknik C, Kompilatorer och interpretatorer, 7,5 högskolepoäng, valbar*
21:32:14 <AnMaster> in the context of computers, at least in that course name it is not "tolk"
21:33:04 <FireFly> That's relatively central, right?
21:33:48 <AnMaster> FireFly, anyway a bit south of stockholm in the N/S direction
21:34:05 <AnMaster> and near the middle in the E/W direction
21:34:24 <AnMaster> FireFly, need to read up on geography :P
21:34:34 <FireFly> I know my geography sucks :<
21:35:30 <FireFly> North of the northern whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled
21:35:40 <AnMaster> whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled <-- err?
21:35:59 <FireFly> I forgot the names of the lines
21:36:39 <AnMaster> FireFly, North or south of Narvik?
21:36:48 <AnMaster> and what about relative Gällivari? (spelling?)
21:36:50 <FireFly> Narvik... I think I've heard of it
21:37:32 <FireFly> Meh, I don't really know, as I said my geography isn't really good :P
21:37:33 <AnMaster> FireFly, iron ore mines in Kirnua you know? Sent by train to Narvik, then taken away with ships
21:37:54 <FireFly> yeah, I was in Abisko a few years ago
21:38:04 <FireFly> So I should know this better, I guess :P
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21:38:40 <AnMaster> FireFly, also I was in Kiruna this summer. Never went quite as far north as Abisko
21:39:15 <AnMaster> FireFly, btw where is Göteborg relative Stockholm?
21:39:53 <FireFly> Well, you can take it granted that I know that Göteborg is on the western coast of Sweden :P
21:39:54 <AnMaster> FireFly, jönköping relative göteborg?
21:40:35 <AnMaster> FireFly, not a lot in that case, on this map I just double checked on it looked at the same level
21:41:03 <AnMaster> possibly slightly north, but not sure
21:41:24 <FireFly> Well yeah, I though they were pretty leveled
21:41:42 <AnMaster> FireFly, trick question. There are lots of places named ekeby :P
21:42:01 <AnMaster> google earth pops up 9. and I see two ones missing there at least
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