< 1252108965 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252109103 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252109111 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252109134 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252109195 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252111711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252112122 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112366 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I secretly wish that one day, the web will be almost entirely Flash-based, and you will be forced to resort to using: gopher; no electricity; no running water; no surrounding society. Am I a bad person?) < 1252112463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid this will only lead to him making his own flash interpreter, probably together with zzo38. < 1252112541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably based on gopher, though < 1252112547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir < 1252112588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw < 1252112601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better < 1252112683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc < 1252112691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make < 1252112739 0 :augur!n=augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see the last comment < 1252112844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on that page) < 1252113092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey goise < 1252113675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bourgois(i)e < 1252113699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+(e) < 1252113726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn french who cannot spell < 1252114072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burgwah < 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burgwah < 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252114611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bO:R\zwazi: < 1252114618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwa** < 1252114643 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@24.207.48.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252114660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1554430 < 1252115130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out. < 1252115131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252115346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have an Explode button, and suspects that is fortunate. < 1252116651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again manages to write "proof reading" in an edit summary < 1252116787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252117594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252122481 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252126600 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252128347 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252128498 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252129557 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252130745 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252131463 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252131694 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252134522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252134902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252137301 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252137599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252137600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252140482 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252141375 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252142284 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252142641 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-227.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252143294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better <-- I blame synergy < 1252143309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc <-- yes but no one else does it like that < 1252143660 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252146042 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252148500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think I finally found a way to make string pushing significantly faster in cfunge. Sadly it is only for x86 and x86-64 < 1252148537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if the env strings are usually as long as they are on my gentoo system that it would matter much elsewhere < 1252151561 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252155006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You using more asm? :-P < 1252155466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/ryanbroomfield/xkcd-sans-women < 1252155774 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252158936 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252159812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm considering doing it < 1252159834 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252159837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how good are you at sed? < 1252159841 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252159895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if there is any shorter way to write this in sed: sed '/^\//!d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/' < 1252159930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it is supposed to convert ICC style diagnostic output into a format that some tools that expect GCC style can understand) < 1252159946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it actually works, just seems so messy) < 1252160510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like. < 1252160591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -r's not posix, of course. < 1252160620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least the 1003.1-2001 one.) < 1252160717 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"fe'o" < 1252160839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like. <-- hm right, they are indeed < 1252160867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can maybe combine them, though it might not look any prettier that way. < 1252160899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for -r, I doubt this will be useful on anything but linux. Or is ICC available for other platforms than windows and linux? < 1252160973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X, at least some versions at some point. < 1252161028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there was some QNX thing too, but that can't be very popular. < 1252161367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and it depends on absolute paths in the output, to detect the relevant lines (which is true by default for cmake projects, which is where I needed this) < 1252161547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want those lines for which the s/// matches -- I mean, it already has that ".[ch](digits)" test to see relevant lines -- you can write something like "s///; t ok;d;: ok" to save the /^\//!d test, but it looks a bit crufty with the jump. < 1252161575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the .ch bit was because there is (digits) sometimes later on the line too < 1252161589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[ch] I mean < 1252161610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it might be good enough to pick up relevant lines already with that. < 1252161926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would unlink(NULL); do? < 1252161937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean is it undef or just error? < 1252161974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should logically return EFAULT in errno, but I wouldn't maybe count on that. < 1252161986 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252162017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what icc means with "warning #12331: function "chdir" is vulnerable to race conditions"... < 1252162027 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252162226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; the only related race I can think of is in the "process creates a directory, then someone removes it and places a symlink to some existing wrong place, process then chdirs into the wrong place" case, but that's not so very chdir-related. < 1252162245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; } < 1252162257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a process with multiple threads, all threads share the same chdir. < 1252162262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ah right < 1252162278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it could just be about that, but isn't that quite obvious. < 1252162280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, except this program uses no threads... < 1252162292 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "race condition", I think "threads", making that quite obvious. < 1252162303 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although of course there are other non-thread race conditions out there :P ) < 1252162308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it is produced during link time optimisation it should know that pthreads aren't linked < 1252162333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet icc compiles with threads whether you want it to or not :P < 1252162335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, || is still short-circuiting, foo will not be null if function_not_checking_this_name_is_too_long is called. < 1252162367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, actually no. It only does that if you use -parallel to auto-parallelise. Checked with ldd < 1252162382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. Forgot if it was in C < 1252162495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, can't seem to find any references to that #12331 chdir warning from the interwebs. It must not be a very popular ICC flag that enables it. < 1252162643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -diag-enable sc1 < 1252162671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did find some useful things, like a few missing checks for NULL in places that needed them < 1252162696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost everything else seems to be false warnings so far < 1252162731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny, since it seems "sc1" is just about "critical errors", and that sounds like quite a just-in-case warning. < 1252162746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep. I wonder what sc2 and above will do... < 1252162757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why on earth I wrote this: < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "rb"); break; < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "wb"); break; < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "ab"); break; < 1252162765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1252162765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your variable names are not poetic enough." < 1252162767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cases < 1252162789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean clearly the mode bit should just be calculated then the call be made with a variable < 1252162811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is possibly messier in C < 1252163724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P < 1252163908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah would explain the bad coding style. < 1252163911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252163921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhat needed in CCBI < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: file = c.fopen(name, "rb"); if (!file) goto default; break; < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: file = c.fopen(name, "wb"); if (!file) goto default; break; < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: file = c.fopen(name, "ab"); if (!file) goto default; c.rewind(file); break; < 1252163935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the rewind may not be needed < 1252163938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1252163961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have the rewind stuff further down < 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((mode == 2) || (mode == 5)) < 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rewind(handles[h]->file); < 1252163997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c:337: error: #12306: unvalidated value is received from call to an external function at (file:/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c line:326) which can be used in loop condition expression < 1252163998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1252164011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what that was about < 1252164014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't check ferror or something? < 1252164029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 326 is: < 1252164031 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((bytes_read = fread(buf, sizeof(unsigned char), (size_t)n, fp)) != (size_t)n) { < 1252164035 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I check it there < 1252164055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is what the if does < 1252164065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bytes_read is the bit that is found in the loop < 1252164075 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164108 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252164108 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252164176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:49 ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw < 1252164177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1252164180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ you) < 1252164198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was already pointed out, and I blame synergy as I said < 1252164253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:45:30 Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out. < 1252164254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, clicking the link did not make me understand this any more. < 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:50:45 fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; } < 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, stop coding C < 1252164361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252164381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well icc didn't claim it was. < 1252164402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already established icc is overly pedantic < 1252164418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it strayed into "plain wrong" there < 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:24 Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P < 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now, he might have changed the indentation style! < 1252164439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope, not even that < 1252164444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, yes < 1252164447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he converted it to tabs < 1252164453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er what? I use tabs < 1252164455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :significant modifications, here < 1252164457 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: er right < 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I selected the space next to > < 1252164468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He removed tabs, mayhap < 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you < 1252164492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you aren't even funny. Also isn't one of the points of open source to be able to share code ;P < 1252164500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes I do give credit) < 1252164520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally it's considered polite to label things like that "ports" < 1252164532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that'd be offensive to CCBI, which doesn't have half of its code as asm optimisations < 1252164616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do include a comment at the top of that file about many parts being based on CCBI. Reason here was that I implemented that RCS fingerprint before Mike Riley showed up here. < 1252164625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when his docs were even worse. < 1252164637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further convinced that you don't actually read messages you reply to < 1252164666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I generally skip lines with a too high sillyness quota < 1252164686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: I ignore lines I don't agree with < 1252164813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, definitely not. < 1252164833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I did that I wouldn't be able to end up arguing with you for such long periods. < 1252164838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: I ignore lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike. < 1252164869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Not really, but when you are sarcastic or just plain silly, then yes. < 1252164904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: If I continue to add qualifiers to this sentence I can justify [ignoring lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike]. < 1252164933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... now you are getting close to silly again. < 1252164973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're... incredibly predictable. < 1252164988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is your mom < 1252165036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we find AnMaster using his staple argumentative technique, "argumentum ad I don't have any rebuttals so I'll make a bad joke and hope everyone forgets about the argument". < 1252165047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Said in Attenborough voice.) < 1252165088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, you didn't answer the question about that bug above. < 1252165094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 that is < 1252165113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite wtfy of python to only let CFLAGS passed to configure affect configure itself < 1252165116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is there to say? You linked me to a tedious, sundry bug. < 1252165123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is completely different to what everyone else does < 1252165208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1252165422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to rieinstall windows < 1252165435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reinstall < 1252165625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252165635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers looking at older notebook models < 1252165654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252165675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252165916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1252165920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252165921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252165927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := more screen space while fitting on my lap < 1252165928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I meant about why reinstall < 1252165931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252165932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not why the 14" < 1252165937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my keyboard stopped working < 1252165945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh... tried rebooting? < 1252165955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. also repairing the drivers. < 1252165964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe unplug it and plugging it in again? < 1252165972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluetooth. < 1252165975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1252165977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned it off and on again. < 1252165979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that < 1252165980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tried to repair. < 1252165984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It "supposedly" worked, but not really. < 1252166000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About that? < 1252166002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you set up the initial pair connection thingy for bluetooth keyboard and mice < 1252166013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a keyboard, just click click click. < 1252166018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can generate a pairing key for you. < 1252166027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, enter key shown on screen or such? < 1252166038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're like 8 digits long < 1252166041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252166043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo insecure :P < 1252166048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about mice, how do you input it there? < 1252166055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. < 1252166059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1252166064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just turn it on, maybe press a button on the back, and pair at the same time. < 1252166073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic. < 1252166086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then two mice in range trying to pair at the same time is unlikely, after all. < 1252166107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1252166127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues with looking at older notebooks: run hotter and louder, lower specs, dimmer displays < 1252166137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotter and dimmer being the main issues < 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"256 or 512MB PC2-4200 memory standard, 2GB max < 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40, 60 or 80GB PATA HDD" < 1252166150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless someone is setting up a computer lab at some uni. But I guess usb mice are more common there to make it harder to steal < 1252166155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well, more than 80GB would be nice. < 1252166185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use a SATA→PATA adapter and scrunch a big SSD in there with some ingenuity. < 1252166187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, do you plan getting some notebook bag/backpack or similar? < 1252166200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I can't exactly hold it all the time. < 1252166203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I was looking for one to mine I only saw ones made for wide screen < 1252166213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could just get a regular bag < 1252166216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could just get a larger bag < 1252166228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 15" one for a 12" laptop or similar < 1252166257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43 is 32.9 x 26.8 x 3.6 cm. < 1252166259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but the ones made for notebooks tend to have some extra padding < 1252166281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who cares about that. The only PC notebooks I'd really consider are ThinkPads, and they're sturdy. < 1252166294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice both for your back (in case of backpack at least) and for the notebook (for obvious reasons) < 1252166306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know, by the way, that the original iBook weighed a whole 3kg? < 1252166309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks so... dinky. < 1252166315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds about right < 1252166316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clamshell) < 1252166320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have one of those :P < 1252166326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT'S DINKY. < 1252166332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define dinky < 1252166338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINKY < 1252166341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252166345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a word. < 1252166355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the T43 is 2.3kg. Old notebooks sure are heavy :P < 1252166380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw for clamshell ones: don't use the built in handle thingy < 1252166394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not in the market for a clamshell iBook, AnMaster. "{ < 1252166394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least mine shows some worrying cracks in the plastic handle. < 1252166395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1252166411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :( it would match your old powerpc mac perfectly < 1252166428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed '/^\/home\// !d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/' < 1252166428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if I was looking for a Mac and yet wanted an old notebook. Especially since they can't even run Snow Leopard, being PPC.) < 1252166429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252166431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy fail < 1252166441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what the hell is going on < 1252166450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I select something in firefox and it pastes old stuff every time < 1252166454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CKr185OFk9KEdRDIARjIATIIb2Sq8OBFTU4 < 1252166457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame syngergy < 1252166457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT JUST SEXY AS HELL < 1252166503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, there's an old ThinkPad in the local refurbished laptop shop; I think it was an X-something. < 1252166504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1252166508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM era, though. < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions of dinky on the Web: < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * small and insignificant; "we stayed in a dinky old hotel" < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * a small locomotive < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * (British informal) pretty and neat; "what a dinky little hat" < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn < 1252166511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you mean < 1252166520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, all of them apart from the middle. < 1252166528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252166528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... small. And cute-looking. Not 3kg looking. :P < 1252166541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad. < 1252166541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't small. Well the 12" 800x600 screen is < 1252166545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the laptop itself < 1252166551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wide borders around the screen after all < 1252166580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg The iBook G4's keyboard looks nice. Also holy crap that button is big. < 1252166590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad. <-- sounds uncomfortable since the thinkpads I have seen are quite thick... < 1252166615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, remember that yours was the "low-cost" model, so it compromises on weight and thickness, but no, not really. < 1252166617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The desk wasn't very high. < 1252166623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the monitor was on top of some books. < 1252166631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't as makeshift-looking as it sounds. < 1252166633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I the button isn't as much "large" as the whole laptop is "small" < 1252166648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That button is really deep compared to the trackpad, dood. :P < 1252166661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deep? < 1252166671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you mean tall? < 1252166671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further in. < 1252166682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is not how you look at notebooks. < 1252166689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1252166691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the screen. Deep. < 1252166705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are talking about the trackpad click button right? < 1252166708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also how they measure how big the keyboard/pad area is. Deepness. < 1252166715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are using the wrong dimensions. < 1252166717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252166729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("In 2005 the Chinese manufacturer, Lenovo, purchased the ThinkPad brand from IBM, in a five year deal whereby IBM still helps in the marketing and support of these products." that explains the ibm.com) < 1252166735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screen depth refers to number of bits per pixel... < 1252166742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Added the Windows key to all 60-series and newer laptops making all the Windows shortcuts possible. (Although possible before with the keyboard remapping utility)" < 1252166743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, only lenovo did that? < 1252166751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't know what the word depth means? Really? < 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ported the ThinkPad keyboard into stand-alone keyboards for desktop PCs in PS/2 or USB flavor. [12]" < 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow. < 1252166764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I do, like widthxheightxdepth < 1252166768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drools < 1252166774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-45868 < 1252166776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS A NIPPLE < 1252166779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fail to see which dimension is which here < 1252166784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best input device evar < 1252166803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no, it is better to switch between trackpoint and touchpad IME < 1252166809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has both < 1252166810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one has both < 1252166812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252166817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that lovely keyboard. < 1252166822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like no windows key, though. < 1252166827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that doesn't look like a logo. < 1252166852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and indeed, old thinkpads had no windows key iirc. < 1252166853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A disturbing trend in keyboards recently: Microsoft are getting people to do the windows-logo-surrounded-by-orb thing PHYSICALLY. < 1252166872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A convex bit of smooth plastic pressed into the key with the windows logo on it. < 1252166882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean keys should feel good to type? < 1252166887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MICROSOFT ARE GIVING US MONEY! < 1252166909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about ms ergonomic keyboards? If they still make them < 1252166916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1252166920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://computersolutions.co.nz/images/newsletter/2007-10-14/Windows%20Key.jpg ;; example < 1252166968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet old notebooks don't have very good battery life... < 1252166985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on my thinkpad there is a circle around the windows logo, but it is made so that the windows logo is slightly below the surface of the key, hardly possible to notice at all. < 1252166996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the surface inside the circle is flat < 1252167000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's moving me slightly towards an Apple notebook, actually. All the MacBook Pros have 7 hours battery life apart from the 17" model, which has 8. < 1252167015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess they can't anything convex on a laptop :) < 1252167016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, in testing they get near these in real world use.) < 1252167044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Graphs: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580&p=4) < 1252167051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That looks like it'd feel absolutely horrid < 1252167055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it's not a very important key < 1252167056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does < 1252167064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And it is on a Mac, e.g. < 1252167069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's option there < 1252167073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alt becoming Command) < 1252167099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean windows key is the super key :P < 1252167104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252167107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option is Alt. < 1252167112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and menu is compose) < 1252167113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command is Meta. < 1252167125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well on macs yes < 1252167131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Option is Compose I guess. < 1252167138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e e → é < 1252167138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1252167151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-a a → ā < 1252167154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e a → á < 1252167156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1252167161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's in shortcuts too. < 1252167165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Control, Compose and Meta. < 1252167190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, press compose release, type mu gives µ < 1252167198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know < 1252167205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Compose-' e = é, for example < 1252167210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same general idea < 1252167218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do special characters, maybe with argument" < 1252167220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1252167222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Option fits < 1252167235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Command is the main shortcut key for, well, commands. < 1252167238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Meta definitely fits. < 1252167240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where pi is with compose < 1252167262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then you get silly combinations like Compose-Command-v because Compose is just arbitrary in a shortcut. < 1252167268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Logitech illuminated has the windows-logo-emboss-thing, and I personally don't really notice it that much; it looks to have a bith smoother rim around the logo than in that picture, though. < 1252167282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use it much, since I've bound all window-manager shortcuts to that. < 1252167380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers writing a paper on erroneously spatial interfaces < 1252167389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because that term, that I just invented, is awesome. < 1252167462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows key keycap design is rather strictly regulated, see all 23 pages of http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/e/1/de1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7/HardwareStartButtonV102.doc (if you can open a Word .doc, anyway) < 1252167494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a keyboard whose icon for the Windows key is a turd. < 1252167500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just press Turd-Q." < 1252167536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That document is one of the requirements if you want that "Windows Logo Program" thing, so you can put the logo on the box. < 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT < 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure 1: Sample implementation of the Hardware Start Button < 1252167570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same idea, but instead of a turd, the text "SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT". < 1252167582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Diameter of the Chamfer" < 1252167804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But see, it's not like they're strict about the stuff; you can use a "matte finish with a consistent texture of MT11000 or equivalent" instead of the "SPI A2 gloss finish". Well, of course only if you're distributing the keyboard in the EU area. < 1252167877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252167911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is it that in 2008 were there over 3 million searches on the keywords Obama Antichrist" and "Obama Messiah"?.......Does Barack Obama have an apocalyptic role given the global financial circumstances in which he has risen to power. Is he a man divinely appointed or an agent of the New World Order objective?" < 1252167917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Apple has an equally ridiculous thing, it's just internal because they make all their own keyboards :-P < 1252167934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not really, they've differed significantly < 1252167947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, on my previous keyboard it was "⌥ alt" or something, on this it's < 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alt < 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252167950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option" < 1252167987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this, it's "(hollow apple) ⌘", on the later ones, it's "command ⌘". < 1252168022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the Apple logo is pretty subtle. Certainly no polished domes for it. < 1252168048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the thing with the Apple keyboard is all done with Bluetooth Reality Distortion Fields. < 1252168059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically you see Steve Jobs. All the time. And nothing else. < 1252168060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great. < 1252168317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but they would never let another company produce keyboards with apple logos I bet < 1252168329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A company defending their logo < 1252168333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil! Boycott Apple. < 1252168389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's horrible. And it seems Microsoft are positively open compared to apple in this case ;P < 1252168517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other silly warning from ICC: warning #12330: function "system" possibly accepts command line < 1252168525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah? that's the whole point isn't it? < 1252168594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like a strong AI compiler or something < 1252168648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean it is intended for "don't use this in a web server" kind of thing warning? < 1252168655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could possibly explain it < 1252168661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "yo, man, be careful with this input" < 1252168672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that's what I meant < 1252170166 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252170504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do ORTH instructions reflect on error? < 1252170511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they error? < 1252170519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the output string one could < 1252170524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252170547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact any output one could. < 1252170551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to you I guess < 1252170577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the reason I asked was simply that ORTH is after all based on another language. < 1252170669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they do there < 1252171246 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252171472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about this ICC warning: < 1252171482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return value of function "clearerr" is ignored < 1252171491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man page the prototype is: < 1252171498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void clearerr(FILE *stream); < 1252171515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't happen to any other void function as far as I can tell < 1252171535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably then isn't void "in reality", i.e. in the system headers. < 1252171557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/stdio.h:extern void clearerr (FILE *__stream) __THROW; < 1252171572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. Maybe ICC's just very confused. < 1252171623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it provides it's own stdio headers? doesn't make any sense... but who knows... *greps* < 1252171627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you actually have there included, but one would guess not having that would lead to other warnings. < 1252171641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I include stdio.h < 1252171662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was at the sc3 level btw < 1252171720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, grepping the whole icc directory didn't turn up any clearerr except stuff like "binary file /opt/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc matches" < 1252171746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW? < 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nm -D /home/arvid/local/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc | grep clearerr < 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : U clearerr < 1252171764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unknown, it's gnu headers. would take way to long to track that down < 1252171775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things like ctags < 1252171784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a lot of __BEGIN_NAMESPACE_STD macros. < 1252171814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are probably using the same header for the thing, or whatever, and want the empty-throw-declaration there. Or something. < 1252171829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW seems to be defined in lots of places < 1252171848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try removing __THROw and see if it still complains < 1252171851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from grep (keep in mind that there are no context lines here): < 1252171853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From clearerr) < 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) < 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW throw () < 1252171858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right < 1252171870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounds like the type of thing that might be causing it. < 1252171872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252171874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prolly is < 1252171880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how throw = nothrow < 1252171883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something :P < 1252171883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, __THROW is there for stuff it doesn't complain about though < 1252171893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe you aren't ignoring that stuff. < 1252171894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think those two lines there just contradicted itself < 1252171897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252171899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think it's defined empty for the not-gcc case. < 1252171899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :themselves < 1252171901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's using a different #defined value there. < 1252171907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: icc says it's gcc. < 1252171908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ICC claims to be GCC, IIRC. < 1252171908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ICC defined __GNUC__ though < 1252171912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252171945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case it really shouldn't be confused by GCC attributes. < 1252171974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which make all hell break loose in cfunge, except that I explicitly check for __INTEL_COMPILER < 1252172025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My headers define __THROW to "__attribute__ ((__nothrow__))" for (not C++, GCC >= 3.3); to "throw ()" for (C++, GCC >= 2.8) and to empty otherwise. < 1252172032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does throw() in C++ mean? < 1252172039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not throw exceptions. < 1252172040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"may not throw"? < 1252172042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252172050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not call it nothrow() or something then < 1252172060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "throw with an empty list". < 1252172064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense. < 1252172069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed < 1252172071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the list of exceptions we may throw: none. < 1252172086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the same thing as __attribute__ ((nothrow)) I guess, though I don't know what the attribute actually does in non-C++ code. < 1252172105 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252172117 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252172151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems pretty unclear from gcc docs too < 1252172156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The `nothrow' attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception." < 1252172160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The nothrow attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception. For example, most functions in the standard C library can be guaranteed not to throw an exception with the notable exceptions of qsort and bsearch that take function pointer arguments. The nothrow attribute is not implemented in GCC versions earlier than 3.3." < 1252172161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252172184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wasn't aware C functions could throw exceptions < 1252172201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's for compiling C with -fexceptions. < 1252172216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the point of THAT be... < 1252172218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you may need to enable this option when compiling C code that needs to interoperate properly with exception handlers written in C++" < 1252172240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I should really repeat the above line :P < 1252172302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, heh, it's in the cdefs.h header too: "For gcc 3.2 and up we even mark C functions as non-throwing using a function attribute since programs can use the -fexceptions options for C code as well." < 1252172320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it how the comment says "for gcc 3.2 and up" while the actual test is __GNUC_PREREQ (3, 3). < 1252172418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system headers are always so messy. < 1252172428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, much less so on freebsd though < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* These two macros are not used in glibc anymore. They are kept here < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : only because some other projects expect the macros to be defined. */ < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __P(args) args < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __PMT(args) args < 1252172437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes the GNU ones are < 1252172453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess those are related to prototypes somehow < 1252172486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think people do wrap arguments in a __P() so it can be defined empty if you want to omit them. < 1252172494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what __PMT is for. < 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __ptr_t void * < 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __long_double_t long double < 1252172502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252172506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc ate the comment above < 1252172508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* This is not a typedef so `const __ptr_t' does the right thing. */ < 1252172510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it < 1252172518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains the first, but not the second < 1252172553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably so that "unsigned __long_double_t" will work. :p < 1252172581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would the const do if it was a typedef < 1252172593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the actual variable itself const rather than the pointed to value? < 1252172599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252172630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the whole "hide a pointer in typedef" thing anyway. < 1252172634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any way to make the actual pointer const if you don't want to use a typedef? Err would it be something like void* const? < 1252172661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously hate how C types are defined < 1252172700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, void* const foo; would be it, I think. < 1252172710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now ICC is just getting damn silly. It errors that while(true) is an infinite loop.... < 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain void* const foo; < 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare foo as const pointer to void < 1252172725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it never heard of main loops? < 1252172735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;;) < 1252172750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same error, I just checked < 1252172758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a reasonable error to me < 1252172761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in -diag-enable c3 < 1252172763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1252172796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, because when written like that it is usually intended. And it doesn't need a strong AI to detect. After all GCC does it. < 1252172805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put it on super-pedantic mode < 1252172818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're an idiot and do that when you don't want it to be super pedantic < 1252172820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit's your fault. < 1252172825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but the pedanticness should make sense IMO :P < 1252172829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. < 1252173254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++ you can write "const void *foo" and "void const *foo" and they mean the same thing; I *think* you can do the same in C too, though my version of cdecl doesn't understand the latter. < 1252173306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Is it trying to make C not-TC? :P < 1252173328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err you must have misunderstood what I was suggesting < 1252173330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you can, in C. < 1252173354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not that C is TC without file IO. ;P < 1252173380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(true); -- Getting rid of that means no TC < 1252173391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, never suggested that. It was ICC who did < 1252173397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/who/that/ < 1252173408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure it is. Via an annoying isomorphism with lambda calculus. :P < 1252173414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact the case was while(true) { blah blah } < 1252173429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have limited memory since size of size_t must be finite < 1252173438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specific implementations are not; damned finite stack) < 1252173495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact it is defined that sizeof(void*) must be finite. < 1252173526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just "no implementation is TC" here. (because that is true for every language then) < 1252173551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sure. But not everything on the stack needs to be within that finite memory space. < 1252173566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x; < 1252173567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&x < 1252173610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Since C is not dynamic, one need not worry about making everything addressable. Just everything that's addressed. < 1252173619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x; < 1252173625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252173628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um yes < 1252173630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1252173639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{int x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1 < 1252173649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{&x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1 < 1252173651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now, bitch < 1252173674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since you can take an an address of anything on stack and pass it on to callees < 1252173690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, of course, cannot be done infinitely. Fortunately, that's not needed for Turing completeness. < 1252173696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is not what he said < 1252173702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C is not TC, man. < 1252173710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been proved, more or less. < 1252173739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has functions and a call stack of potentially infinite size. < 1252173745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1252173749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That call stack must be pointerable. < 1252173755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also iirc it is valid to do something like: int i, j; int* base = &i; ssize_t diff = &j - &i; and then use base+diff to access j < 1252173757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then GCC does not implement C. < 1252173759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Besides, functions are not enough. < 1252173764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to PASS functions. < 1252173764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is probably gray-zone < 1252173767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those functions must be POINTERS. < 1252173771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and POINTERS are of finite size. < 1252173784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Okay, that's a much better argument. < 1252173784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You DO have to pass functions for the LC) < 1252173789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: not a non-sequitur) < 1252173851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is probably TC if you include the file IO though... iirc. < 1252173862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly not < 1252173862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1252173870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If given an infinite filesystem. < 1252173901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect it isn't. Files are seekable. the offset in files is of the type off_t, which is also finite. There is a finite number of filenames you can fit into memory (since memory is finite) < 1252173922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use files of 1-byte. < 1252173933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fopen("swap489573495834985739498732814683779831647842672645678926587932645","w") < 1252173943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? how would that help. < 1252173945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc filenames are finite < 1252173951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't need infinitely large files < 1252173960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not < 1252173969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need infinite number of files then < 1252173980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's been shown that the C file io is tc < 1252174005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not possible if there is a finite number of possible filenames. < 1252174014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine. link? < 1252174019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "infinite number of possible filenames in memory". < 1252174032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do a tape with an infinite-depth chain of subdirectories, and move around it with chdir. < 1252174038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1252174044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, index files pointing to new and old filenames < 1252174048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can drop them from memory < 1252174058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would work, but then you mean C + POSIX iirc < 1252174064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not pure C with file IO < 1252174115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard describes no such thing as "directory" < 1252174124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files yes, but not directories < 1252174149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn. < 1252174162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good night < 1252174179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean you're leaving? Say yes. < 1252174186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you were < 1252174197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "yawn" means "I am leaving now". < 1252174224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was "yawn, I'm feeling sleepy, see you tomorrow" < 1252174556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I found out why ICC produced a binary for cfunge that was more than twice as slow as that gcc produced (on mycology that is)... < 1252174593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hiding some attributes ICC didn't understand from it. When I hide those from GCC too... ICC and GCC are exactly even. < 1252174653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news is that last version of ICC now support them. And with those visible to ICC... ICC and GCC are exactly even but at the much shorter time. < 1252174671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did it take 0.006 instead of 0.003s < 1252174691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 0.160 vs 0.029 < 1252174698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So SLOW! < 1252174724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relatively yes... < 1252174743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agree or disagree: 'If [the 80386] were an unencumbered design, it would have had a 32-bit "word", but as an extension of the 8086, its "word" continued to be considered as 16 bits.' < 1252174751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Agree in what way < 1252174757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it factually true? Should it have been that way? < 1252174775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than 5 times as slow. When you look at it that way, the difference is very large < 1252174776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it true that most people consider the x86's word 16 bits < 1252174782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is it? < 1252174796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never considered it 16 bits for the 32- or 64-bit machines < 1252174803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it isn't? < 1252174811 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not most people < 1252174824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it 16-bit < 1252174829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikipedia article that's from and a comment in the discussion suggests that most people do, in fact, consider it 16-bit < 1252174835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I guess this is mainly about the DOS/windows world, where int32_t is known as DWORD < 1252174836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See the quote. < 1252174839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stands for double word < 1252174841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not helpful < 1252174843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252174845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know about "most people", but GDB considers "word" to be 32 bits; for example x/1w dumps out 32 bits; 16 bits is a half-word. < 1252174846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that's one place where it is like that. < 1252174862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the entire windows API yes < 1252174872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1252174909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the official assembly mnemonics have several cases of things like stos{b,w,d,q} with 16-bit word, 32-bit dword and 64-bit qword. < 1252174928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T, yes. < 1252174933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is used a lot on linux (the term word that is) < 1252174942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually those Intel ones too, yes. < 1252174963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stos[bwdq] being one of the few that comes with a size < 1252174976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does stos* do now again < 1252174984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, everybody's a C programmer so they just talk about size_t ;-) < 1252174991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi. < 1252174995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stores a byte at ... yeah < 1252175005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stosb does. < 1252175016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Th others store more than a byte. :-P < 1252175019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well win32 api is C iirc < 1252175022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, and I guess there's some segment selector involved too, I don't remember which one. < 1252175024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252175047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, but they're like OpenGL in that they decided to make their own integer types for everything. < 1252175052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait what... isn't that same as mov eax,edi? < 1252175071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it also increments edi. < 1252175075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the suitable number. < 1252175077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252175083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, define suitable < 1252175090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of bytes in the thing you put there. < 1252175099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 for stosb, 2 for stosw, 4 for stosd, 8 for stosq. < 1252175100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It decrements it if DF = 1. < 1252175108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... what use is this < 1252175110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's also a direction flag you can set or clear. < 1252175110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252175121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: memset: rep stosb < 1252175122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? It's the fast way to do memset, for one thing. < 1252175124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. < 1252175135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rep stosb. < 1252175138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still the fast way, I wonder. < 1252175140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an alien tongue! < 1252175144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unlikely < 1252175148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's *a* fast way anyway. < 1252175159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, libc one uses SIMD nowdays < 1252175167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc* < 1252175167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glibc < 1252175170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: <3 < 1252175171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252175177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252175203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the AMD "Architecture Programmer's Manual" defines "word" as "Two bytes, or 16 bits." < 1252175219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's certainly common; I'm sure you could add a [citation needed] for the "most people" part. < 1252175224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would rep stosb work... wouldn't it just be mov eax,edi followed by substracting 2 from edi? forever < 1252175225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but AMD is an asian knock-off company that uses child labor. < 1252175228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't trust them. < 1252175230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense < 1252175235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rep" decrements ecx/rcx. < 1252175237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at cpu docs < 1252175238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they do, since then they can say "stosw moves a word" < 1252175264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also deliberately disable Intel's security features. < 1252175273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not quote from a manual you can buy in stores? < 1252175293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant edi is used as an adress < 1252175299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it is moved to edi < 1252175310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course. < 1252175311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi. < 1252175316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wasn't clear from that < 1252175320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252175340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I was assuming an AI-complete reader. < 1252175358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, burn < 1252175377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They also deliberately disable Intel's security features. <-- I can't even imagine how you thought of that... < 1252175390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1252175393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it's true. Don't tell me you've been deceived, AnMaster. < 1252175414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To wit: < 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be < 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you have to order them from internet sites.]] < 1252175422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no idea what you are talking about simply. What security feature to be specific? < 1252175422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html < 1252175444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^add told to the cut off line < 1252175461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "btold" ? < 1252175470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clog line ends with "be". < 1252175475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does my line. < 1252175477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one here doesn't < 1252175478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252175495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it didn't send \r and your client stripped off the last two chars. < 1252175504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The line here ends with "b" too. Strange. < 1252175511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, I'm on xchat atm < 1252175550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the bip bouncer log line ends with "-- likely b", that's curious too. < 1252175571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we find an off-by-one bug in various software? :-P < 1252175577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't do my logging in znc so can't check there < 1252175578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so! < 1252175581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By accident! < 1252175583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect it may be server side < 1252175598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, then it's some server that routed it that failed < 1252175605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. < 1252175608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect that server name may be included < 1252175614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think it might be the ident-message-prefix thing. < 1252175615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1252175618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It adds at least a + there. < 1252175618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which means if the server happens to have a long name... < 1252175623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, cool < 1252175624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that < 1252175630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are IRC lines limited anyway < 1252175630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The what now? < 1252175632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes my client activates that feature too < 1252175632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xchat toggles that feature on. < 1252175637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from bullshit historical reasons < 1252175655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a freenode thing which you can toggle on which makes the server prefix a + to messages from identified-to-nickserv people, and a - to others. < 1252175666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1252175667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess neither clog nor whatever client Deewiant uses implements that feature < 1252175670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With the intention that it'll be easy to see no-one's the faking. < 1252175676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG or something, was it. < 1252175717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is rather useful in irc bots. Make sure the user is really identified without having to do a whois after. for authentication with the irc bot < 1252175728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois could potentially have race conditions too < 1252175744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use name like a real man, I'm sure nobody will /nick name and then !system rm -rf / < 1252175746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's very widespread feature to have by-default, but of course there's an Irssi script. < 1252175773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine: Evil guy sends message, gets ghosted by real nick owner, bot sends whois, real nick owner identifies, server replies to whois, bot allows evil command < 1252175817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think I seen any other irc server than Hyperion implementing the feature. < 1252175850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why are IRC lines limited anyway Apart from bullshit historical reasons <-- for bullshit historical reasons < 1252175863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why do current servers abide by this limit < 1252175869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc there are clients that crash on overly long lines. < 1252175876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck them < 1252175885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets() for the win < 1252175889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NOTABUG (no I don't agree with this) < 1252175891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcfunge still has that in < 1252175893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, quite < 1252175899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I checked that it doesn't ever call the function that uses it < 1252175904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252175910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, evil dead code? < 1252175914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there for the linker warning < 1252175922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just some helper function intended for gdb call? < 1252175932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1252175941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, RCFunge 2's code is better, isn't it? < 1252175950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Better" in what way < 1252175956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit more modular, I guess < 1252175967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has to wrap everything in a struct for MVRS to work < 1252175971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, it was trivial to crash it iirc < 1252175996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every software has bugs < 1252175997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that was some rc. Haven't tried any "stable" version of it < 1252176017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well trivial as in providing a command line argument but no file or something like that < 1252176020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1252176023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all < 1252176024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./rcfunge --help < 1252176025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1252176036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's sort of low down on the things I'd write if I was writing my own option parser code for an unstable version < 1252176056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, want to hear why it crashed? < 1252176062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1252176068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more or less filename = argv[argc-1]; < 1252176083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it checked that there was at least one argument < 1252176097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that ended up crashing it if it started with a - < 1252176103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such a file didn't exist < 1252176111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, most people write a command line interface that they can use for testing when using an unstable release < 1252176125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd concentrate on e.g. the funge support, personally < 1252176128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they? I don't < 1252176141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're the kind to write their own command line parsers. < 1252176149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1252176161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rc/funge doesn't run on windows iirc. So there is no reason to not use getopt() just as well. < 1252176162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because Tango didn't have one, though, but anyway < 1252176168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, disproof by sample size of 1 < 1252176177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! < 1252176178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because getopt's interface is shit, for one < 1252176180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.instantrimshot.com < 1252176190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt_long interface is yes < 1252176194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I JUST SEE A BLANK WHITE PAGE < 1252176198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And getopt < 1252176199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not getopt() < 1252176202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1252176206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it shitty? < 1252176234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Duplication of naming the options < 1252176240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both the switch and getopt() < 1252176253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Incomprehensible suffixes like :, that look like options in themselves < 1252176263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly others < 1252176266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -: isn't very common < 1252176279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant, in "bf:" : looks like an option < 1252176293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an unreadable DSL < 1252176295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when in a getopt string < 1252176297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you already know < 1252176299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is stupid < 1252176304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's arbitrary and unneeded < 1252176304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find it readable < 1252176307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"+bEFfhSs:t:VvW" < 1252176308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252176314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck? < 1252176324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, AnMaster? < 1252176328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that meant to be a counterargument? < 1252176335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks almost as bad as J < 1252176338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course it is readable. F: means it F takes an argument < 1252176345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HEY NOW. < 1252176345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1252176349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easy to read < 1252176356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is WAY worse < 1252176357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-) < 1252176419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only issue here is that + means: "hey you! yes I mean you getopt of glibc! Follow POSIX today or else!" < 1252176422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's argument parsing is better < 1252176429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a bit confusing < 1252176431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll draft up something that doesn't look ugly < 1252176449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it will be completely unlike J then? < 1252176467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J isn't unreadable just because you don't use \32. < 1252176498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt's DSL isn't unreadable just because it doesn't use \32 either < 1252176516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. It's unreadable for entirely different reasons < 1252176523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as is J < 1252176527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1252176538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is. If getopt's DSL is < 1252176546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reading getopt's DSL is trivial < 1252176570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the duplication in the switch statement is a small issue though < 1252176587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn. < 1252176636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you realise that saying J is readable and getopt's DSL isn't makes you a hypocrite? < 1252176643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............. < 1252176658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1252176660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are so many logical flaws with my statement that I'd rather hit myself on the head with a baseball bat than try and rebut it. < 1252176691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's try with the first: "He thinks getopt is unreadable, I think J is unreadable, therefore he must think J is unreadable or he is a hypocrite". < 1252176699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? That doesn't logically follow at all? Oh my. < 1252176734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to be indicating that your opinion on getopt above was some sort of "universal truth" < 1252176743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to point out the flaw in this < 1252176754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by showing how absurd it is < 1252176778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN SOMEONE PLEASE KNOCK ME OUT? I'M BEING TOLD, YET AGAIN, TO PREFIX EVERY-FUCKING-THING I SAY WITH "IN MY OPINION"! < 1252176791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to hell. in my opinion. < 1252176800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a postfix, not a prefix. < 1252176827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It flows better. < 1252176830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. Both are allowed. You could even insert it in the middle for variation. < 1252176868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sed is unreadable unless you know it too < 1252176892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sing with me: Fallacy, fallacy, fallacy/Phallusy, phallusy, wait, what is this about again? < 1252177227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallic. < 1252177242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallusy. < 1252177272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getopt is a lot simpler to learn than J though. getopt DSL goes like: Every alphanumeric letter is a valid flag. : means the flag is supposed to have an argmuent. There is a few more things to it that aren't commonly used. But that is it. Oh and GNU adds a few other uncommon things. All of these uncommon things are about special meaning if first char of string is a non-alphanumeric char < 1252177327 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177334 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252177335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I fail to see how that is hard to understand. < 1252177367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the issue would be in how it reports what it found to the app. That is a bit more complex. < 1252177431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i sum up an innumerable amount of positive real numbers, why is the sum necessarily infinite? < 1252177442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: getopt returns found flag, any argument is put in the global variable optarg (indeed, getopt isn't thread safe). < 1252177456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general sum of X is the supremum of all sums of finite subsets of X < 1252177461 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? means "unlisted flag" < 1252177510 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252177541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean clearly you can't construct something like 0.5^-n for all n, because the decimal expansion needs to start having zeroes to its left, so you can find an injection to N by simply counting the zeroes... but that's very imprecise < 1252177545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll ask #math < 1252177560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would you say that it is easy to understand that example I gave above knowing this? < 1252177570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you exist?????????? < 1252177590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, sure it's presumably quite simple < 1252177595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great idea taking a measure theory course with a background of one basic course in analysis < 1252177597 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought the point was more intuitiveness and such < 1252177623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is intuitive if you can spend 5 minutes learning it! Yay! < 1252177638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to the system where every call requires such explanation. < 1252177647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if the API was supposed to be intutive, why would we have man pages < 1252177662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We wouldn't, now would we. < 1252177662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: totally. < 1252177666 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just been kinda busy < 1252177672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, it's not like things called edge cases exist for most calls or anything < 1252177676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nosiree < 1252177682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly your plan results in the awful demise of man pages < 1252177697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's easy to infer which arguments the order to go in and therefore your plan would obsolete them. < 1252177704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, calls shouldn't be intuitive. QED < 1252177710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well design some way to make it intutive to open a newly created file with user access only and fail if the file already exists < 1252177712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"which arguments the order to go in"? < 1252177718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in read-write mode < 1252177743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("file name", USER_ACCESS_ONLY | FAIL_IF_EXISTS | READ_WRITE_MODE); < 1252177778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you would still need some place to document if it was FAILS_IF_EXISTS or FAIL_IF_EXISTING or similar < 1252177811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't ask me, I'm just trying to translate AnMaster's argument "If APIs were intuitive we wouldn't need man pages. Therefore getopt shouldn't be intuitive." < 1252177813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, you still need documentation. But the difference here is that you can read the code and know what it does. < 1252177818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And failing massively as every clause of that sentence is stupid < 1252177872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in truth I think it is open("file name", O_EXCL | O_RDWR, S_IRWXU); < 1252177878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it isn't very intutive < 1252177883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRWXU <3 < 1252177883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read man page even < 1252177892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I r wx u → I are with you < 1252177895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : S_IRWXU 00700 user (file owner) has read, write and execute permission < 1252177896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ I am with you < 1252177898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am with you <3 < 1252177906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wx = with? < 1252177911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'M NOT SURE AnMaster RECIPROCATES YOUR DESIRE < 1252177916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Write Execute < 1252177919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1252177922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoooooooooosh < 1252177927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, REALLY. < 1252177932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR <-- I R User? < 1252177933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER KNEW < 1252177944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users R Us! < 1252177971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "user has read permission" btw < 1252177972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users are not toys. < 1252177983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say Toys R Us < 1252177992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooooooooooosh x 2 < 1252177998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course that is what I was referencing < 1252178018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scours thinkwiki for 4:3 thinkpads < 1252178021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR may be saner for most temp files < 1252178030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wanted good battery time? < 1252178038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, they're worth a look < 1252178042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know if you can find new batteries for old computers < 1252178051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can....... < 1252178059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, (I are user and I'm with user)? < 1252178061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apart from being initially worse, they also tend to get worse over time < 1252178068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252178074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like a... transformative masturbation fantasy? < 1252178075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES NO SENSE. < 1252178091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um sounds more like some kind of deep zen thing to me < 1252178097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if < 1252178101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the cosmic flow or such < 1252178121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem: < 1252178133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If *I* was in charge of the DL's computer, I wouldn't put on *only* Linux or *only* Windows or what have you. I think the DL needs a multiboot machine, and would really appreciate it if you tried to make him one with everything." < 1252178135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant your "translation" of it < 1252178158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DL's? < 1252178162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dalai Lama < 1252178165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252178166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, one guy on #math says what i ask doesn't make sense, other says what i'm trying to prove is true < 1252178167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252178171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking useless < 1252178177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is useless < 1252178178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN BED < 1252178183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KarZING < 1252178195 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is useless getting fucked? < 1252178200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252178201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:240 ;; This looks good! < 1252178211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-res, no less. < 1252178217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want 4:3 btw < 1252178225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I thought you disliked non-widescreen < 1252178240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:00 A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:01 (+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:07 = more screen space while fitting on my lap < 1252178250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252178254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, # Intel Mobile Celeron 300, 366 or 400 CPU < 1252178255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252178257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For big screens, yes, I prefer 16:10 < 1252178276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the extra height is mostly useless, and you can have 4:3 things side by side < 1252178280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neomagic MagicGraph128XD < 1252178282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean 8:5 < 1252178287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amused at its obsolescence. < 1252178305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also a special card JUST TO DISPLAY GRAPHS! < 1252178316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after telling me the definition doesn't make sense, the guy asks "what's a supermum" < 1252178319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*supernum < 1252178321 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252178324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no supermum right < 1252178325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is 10.4"? < 1252178326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supremum* < 1252178329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just... sounded like supermom < 1252178329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super mum. < 1252178337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but that was a quote < 1252178340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supernun < 1252178342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252178342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Up to 12GB hard drive, bitch < 1252178350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it was, wasn't it. < 1252178358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yesn't it < 1252178359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought nun's weren't supposed to me mum's? < 1252178365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/groan < 1252178373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *be < 1252178381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but that would explain a lot about you :P < 1252178390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1252178435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your nu^H^Hmum < 1252178444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how the T43 and T43p differ < 1252178454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by one letter < 1252178461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I stab you? < 1252178475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the latter has a different gfx card < 1252178481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moar RAM by default < 1252178492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both support up to 2GB maximum < 1252178503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those Pentium Ms must run hot < 1252178516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60 looks shiny; Core 2 Duo, even. < 1252178523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"14.1" TFT display with 1400x1050 resolution" < 1252178526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's some dpi. < 1252178545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 124. Still. < 1252178557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB1" < 1252178579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice. Quite heavy though; 2.45-2.5kg for the 9-cell on the 14" and the 6-cell probably sucks. < 1252178606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a t60p that only has the higher resolution and I don't know what else. Oh, it has that ATI card. < 1252178612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess p meant "discrete graphics". < 1252178616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and higher specs" < 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, higher base specs < 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1252178673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, an issue with all these is that they'll be second hand, and I doubt most ThinkPad owners are terribly careful with 'em... < 1252178701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, The T60 gains a windows key at the expense of fn/control/alt becoming smaller < 1252178704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1252178735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ThinkPad T60 under review is a 15.0" variety with an SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) and has what Lenovo calls "FlexView" technology to provide very wide viewing angles" < 1252178741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if I could find a 14" with that < 1252178752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wonder how many nits they have) < 1252178767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size." < 1252178768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the 9-cell battery with the T60 being reviewed. It adds a bit of weight over the standard 6-cell and sticks out but if you want close to 4 hours of battery life with the 15" screen model you'll need this size. In using the T60 without Wi-Fi and at medium brightness (3rd notch of 7) it got 3 hours 42 minutes of battery life when used lightly (typing review, or idling). You can expect to get over 3 hours with Wi-Fi on and finishing a DVD with the 9-cell < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery shouldn't be a problem, well, unless it's Lord of the Rings. < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 14" screen size will do much better in terms of time of battery life per cell because a smaller screen just drains less battery. My guess is the 6-cell battery for the T60 14" will get you about what the 9-cell battery does for the 15" -- again, that's just a mildly educated guess. < 1252178851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1252178867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could expect like 5-6 hours with the 9 cell on the 14" < 1252178870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't bad at all < 1252178896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9340.gif ;; clever interface! < 1252178917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Runs cool and quiet, no overheating issues even with a fast processor and dedicated video card" < 1252178929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 sure looks appealing < 1252178929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not bad, but I always thought it was a bit pointless versus just a sorted list < 1252178949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's much easier to see which networks have a better signal < 1252178959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it can happen unconsciously, instead of looking at a meter < 1252178969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than from a list where the top one is the best and the worse are below? < 1252178978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't give you an idea of scale < 1252178987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1252178988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., you might think the Levkoff Network is only slightly worse than the belkin54g < 1252178990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, does it matter? < 1252179005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it affects the speed < 1252179013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but does anybody care < 1252179025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'll try from fastest to next-fastest anyway < 1252179028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or? < 1252179032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to show it, might as well < 1252179037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hurt < 1252179047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.1" - starting at 2.17kg/2.34kg (4.8 lb/5.2 lb) < 1252179054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could bring that down by replacing with an SSD < 1252179099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're much lighter than HDDs? < 1252179103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252179114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A double-platter notebook HD is, like, 400g < 1252179119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single-platter, say 200g < 1252179124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An SSD is roughly 80g < 1252179186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very noticeable, 200g versus 80g :-P < 1252179224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure. < 1252179276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Combine with e.g. removing the optical drive < 1252179297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which weighs what, another 80g? :-P < 1252179340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, more like 200g, I'd say < 1252179361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2.02kg vs 2.34kg is definitely noticable < 1252179371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit only slightly, but still < 1252179373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. :-P < 1252179386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about grabbing with one hand and putting on your lap, small differences are quite noticeable, I'd say < 1252179451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One issue with old notebooks is that they generally don't do wireless draft-n < 1252179460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have ExpressCard slots too, so that's easily fixable. < 1252179462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that with my evidently-3 kg R60 just fine; I honestly don't think weight matters that much < 1252179478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least unless you want 3g wireless too < 1252179481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5+ kg is probably the annoyance point < 1252179484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does, IMO < 1252179498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, psychologically, not physically < 1252179520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say dimensions matter more, psychologically < 1252179557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the threshold of deciding whether to take it with you, for instance. < 1252179566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason a lot of people buying the 1.36kg MacBook Air (after using, say, a 2.27kg MacBook - same dimensions) say "This is the first notebook I've come across that feels like I can carry it everywhere all day" < 1252179574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not making it up, I've read two things saying that, at least) < 1252179588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could claim it's the thinness, I guess :P < 1252179594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's that they're Mac-people. :-P < 1252179602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly :P < 1252179641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enough of a geek that I'd take just about any notebook anywhere with me, though. :P < 1252179657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, :P < 1252179683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P is my most-used emoticon, I think < 1252179696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because I can't think of anything else that really means "ha ha only serious" or whatever. < 1252179700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke the :-?P chain. < 1252179711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1252179719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think :P tends to be used to mean "If I say this jokingly it seems bad but I don't want to present it as untrue" < 1252179731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I guess, meshes with a sort of social-acceptability "ha ha only serious". < 1252179782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the R-series is quite amusing; for the budget line they're not very, well, budget. < 1252179790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(belated reaction to "R60") < 1252179818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were budget? :-P < 1252179830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still exists, but yes, they're the "cost-cutting" budget line. < 1252179841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., heavier, thicker, and a few hundred dollars lighter. < 1252179858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "lighter" was a thinko < 1252179861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it that way < 1252179908 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252179929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reverses entropy; * calamari is now known as squid < 1252179950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, "hi" < 1252179953 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird :) < 1252180573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252181746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the wlan-finding UI, there was that bluetooth pairing screen in some mobile: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/31/samsung-rogues-bluetooth-setup-will-be-second-nature-to-air-tra/ < 1252181782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, on a mobile there's rather less space to do that non-stupidly. < 1252181839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Bluetooth is so slow it hardly matters. < 1252181843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "list" doesn't really look very space-efficient to me. < 1252181852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which < 1252181882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in that link, with the only-five-characters-shown icons all around. < 1252181890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1252181909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop 3, sporting a custom Linux OS atop a blistering 1GHz VIA C7 CPU, 1GB of RAM and a tremendously capacious 2GB SSD, is just that sort of machine." < 1252181921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, faster and has more storage space than my £150 crapbook. < 1252181924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the distances don't conform to anything; at least the wlan thing has the signal strenght. < 1252181928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray? < 1252181948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, well that's just useless < 1252181962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fun facct: That "Linutop" costs a whole damn $485) < 1252181964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fact < 1252181997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the local PC magazine reviewed Linutop in the newest issue. < 1252182025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My review: It's crap and I can tell you this despite having not even used it. < 1252182035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size." <-- what is wrong with a 15"? < 1252182048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is a perfectly reasonable size < 1252182057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite a lot heavier, and no, no it's not < 1252182067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone has a gigantic lap < 1252182068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did a comparison of Apple Mac mini, Asus Eee Box, CompuLab Fit-PC2 and Linutop 2. < 1252182071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lower battery life < 1252182073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc, etc, etc < 1252182084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you cal 15" gigantic. Then what do you call 17"? < 1252182087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call* < 1252182100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" is a stupid lugbook. < 1252182110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mac mini vs Linutop? < 1252182123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like David and Goliath, except Goliath is awesome and David sucks cocks. < 1252182123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, linutop? < 1252182124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They're both physically small. :p < 1252182138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster continues to pioneer context-free IRC clients. < 1252182142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the Linutop is smaller. < 1252182154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linutop 3 isn't. < 1252182160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was away for quite a bit above < 1252182162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/4sep09_linuto3.jpg < 1252182173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster also continues to pioneer IRC clients that insert a blank line every second < 1252182179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's that big. < 1252182198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop operating system is stored on an internal flash memory and cannot be altered by virus or mishap." < 1252182199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mishap. < 1252182208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm too busy (read: can't be arsed) to read much of the scrollback < 1252182222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mbnet.fi/nettijatkot/2009/08/minikoneet/ (in Finnish) has, in the first picture, their set of reviewables. < 1252182235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a true blend of asshole to ask people to scroll up a few times for them < 1252182249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK GOOGLE'S TOP BAR IS GONE < 1252182250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAARGH < 1252182261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't switch to image search in a click any more... < 1252182274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gone for me here, at the very least. < 1252182281 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone for me :( < 1252182282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um not gone here < 1252182285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try refreshing the page < 1252182288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to international google, retards < 1252182297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am using .com one < 1252182300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. < 1252182305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then geoip. < 1252182310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1252182314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or one of their sample things. < 1252182317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB testing and the like. < 1252182330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck synergy... again < 1252182343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any holes. < 1252182350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=iw#hl=en&q=google < 1252182351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1252182354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar there for me < 1252182357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck UK ;P < 1252182368 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252182377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any holes outside the UK would be far too big, I think. < 1252182386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, holes? < 1252182389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1252182404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway synergy seriously messes up copy and paste < 1252182409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it is nice < 1252182419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra bonus jokes: EVIDENTLY HANDS AREN'T THE ONLY HUGE FEATURE OF SWEDISH ANATOMY.) < 1252182422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke < 1252182433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252182460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more. But we do have huge brains. < 1252182477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of neurons and such < 1252182485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's as much a "but" as an "also". < 1252182497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gramatically? maybe < 1252182507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatically* < 1252182529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact, dropping "but" may be the best way < 1252182534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not adding also < 1252182548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean meaningly < 1252182558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But we do have tiny brains." would work < 1252182565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not "But we do have huge brains." < 1252182581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more: We do have huge brains. < 1252182583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1252182592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also doesn't make sense. < 1252182611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does. It is the other thing (apart from hands) that are huge < 1252182615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you mentioned yourself < 1252182629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true. < 1252182637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'd be inclined to say whoosh. < 1252182658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whooshing yourself? < 1252182671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google top-bar "more ▼" link has an "even more »" option; reminds me of some interface-hall-of-shame GetRight Properties -> "Advanced"-tab -> "More"-button -> "Protocol / Icons / More / Even More" set of tabs. < 1252182673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for not realising that I continued your joke in an unexpected direction < 1252182686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to do a lot of yoga to be able to whoosh yourself. < 1252182697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds awesome < 1252182731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woosh is this ringh-shaped frisbee; from the Koosh people. < 1252182732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem like there's a much easier method to the same result most of the time. < 1252182760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ringh? < 1252182790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be true in general of yoga I suspect < 1252182799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I originally wrote "ringh-shabed", and my wetware can only fix one typo per word. < 1252182810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm going to go ahead here and say whoosh < 1252182825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is ringh-shabed http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252182825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't - make it count as multiple words? < 1252182865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just spaces count. Sorry, my language output module is pretty limited. < 1252182894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like a (possibly) advanced version of fungot? < 1252182894 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... < 1252182906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252182906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252182909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ct? < 1252182913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously Chrono Trigger. < 1252182914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger. < 1252182921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1252182921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must not have played it if you had to ask ^style. < 1252182922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "obviously?" < 1252182925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for this term < 1252182936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrono Trigger" that is < 1252182940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means a type of trigger. < 1252182942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a gun, you see. < 1252182946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the sound "chrono". < 1252182953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's a movie about tigers. < 1252182956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tigers that can talk. < 1252182956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... < 1252182957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it makes it shoots cronons. < 1252182962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That also. < 1252182968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um google seems to indicate it is a snes game? < 1252182971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a movie < 1252182972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1252182980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a game adaptation; it's old enough. < 1252182982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it about tigers? < 1252182992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to Kenya, we've got lions. < 1252182996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, can they talk? < 1252183005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha! A quote from the sequel, Chrono Wossname. < 1252183010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think. < 1252183037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252183037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. The quotation generator just returns the output; no multiple return values in *my* brain. < 1252183047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for nintendo ds too < 1252183055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, is there any DS emulator? < 1252183059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Playstation port, too. < 1252183065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there are multiple DS emulators. < 1252183067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are DS emulators. Many. < 1252183070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any good game? < 1252183071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 again < 1252183074 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252183078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about Wii emulators? < 1252183078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenC2E should be able to run DS *watches ehird kill him* < 1252183083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon we'll have to gay marry, what with all this <3ing. < 1252183084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS bootstrap < 1252183105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a Wii emulator if you have a functioning bladder. < 1252183107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME is I guess the sensible open-source one; I have no clue what it's game compatibility is. < 1252183110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happy marry xmas? < 1252183113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php ;; wii emulator < 1252183116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1252183121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1252183138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, thanks. < 1252183139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said happy marry < 1252183148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, for what? < 1252183149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME's probably best feature is that it provides the GDB stub thing; you can attach GDBs for the ARM 7 and ARM 9 into it. < 1252183149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1252183238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr806.gif < 1252183241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ^ < 1252183255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there's also No$gba (it does GBA and DS both) which they say is good for debugging; but that one is a Windows thing and costs money. < 1252183264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, err what has that got to do with the meaning I used the word "duck" in < 1252183267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No$gba is free. < 1252183271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just put the free download link below. < 1252183278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr794.gif < 1252183282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, nothing in particular < 1252183288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1252183293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, the free version has less features. < 1252183306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the free one is the "for gamers" one. < 1252183323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamers? More like gaymers. < 1252183326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "for debugging" one has a $15 shareware home-use version, but it had some sort of silly restriction, can't remember what. < 1252183332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY. < 1252183354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm glad to hear they are happy. < 1252183364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke got tired in 1960 < 1252183366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1252183372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes insert obvious joke about "glad" there) < 1252183382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great gladsby < 1252183392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that one I didn't think of :D < 1252183460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby:_Champion_of_Youth is, incidentally, rather uncomfortable to read. < 1252183477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever read the great gatsby? < 1252183483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+/- spelling) < 1252183489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, actually. < 1252183493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is rather tedious < 1252183499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read it in school a few years ago < 1252183508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some English course or such < 1252183509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlas Shrugged is tediouser! < 1252183526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't heard of that one < 1252183528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that speech, I hear the first part of it lasts 8 minutes when spoken or something < 1252183533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ayn Rand's crazyfest. < 1252183552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Summary: http://www.angryflower.com/atlass.gif < 1252183588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had to read Anthem at school < 1252183596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sue them for destroying your brain < 1252183602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This applies equally well to any bad programming course) < 1252183606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anthem? < 1252183618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Rand book. < 1252183659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'd get a nickel for any bad programming course I've been on, I'd probably have spent them already. < 1252183681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252183697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't really know how to distinguish good programming courses from bad ones < 1252183700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a nickel for every time I've accidentally bungee jumped I'd be no better off < 1252183705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What language? < 1252183725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, various. Or are you saying that that's the criterion? < 1252183730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages < 1252183742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I had a nickel for every time I argued with you I'd have at least $100 by now < 1252183756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java and C++ so far < 1252183769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SQL, though that's not really programming < 1252183780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure we've argued 2000 times < 1252183784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some Javascript in the Java course *facepalm* < 1252183786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly sucks < 1252183786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ALICE < 1252183788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252183789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks < 1252183808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1252183813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably more. < 1252183822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't in the same course with Java+Javascript+ALICE) < 1252183833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ course has a slight chance of not sucking. < 1252183837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one is brain-melting. < 1252183851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I survived < 1252183862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But goo is leaking from your ears. < 1252183866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why you ask a lot of stupid questions :P < 1252183866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iirc, was the only one to get a good score on the AP < 1252183913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP? Access Point? < 1252183921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced placement, isn't it? < 1252183924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, anyway. < 1252183925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess your laptop has good antennas then < 1252183942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they group course grades by wlan access points. < 1252183949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HEY! wait with explaining until after I finished my joke < 1252183989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 minutes until I clean < 1252183991 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252184009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I noticed recently at university my thinkpad has a lot better antennas than most other notebooks. Except those with pre-N. < 1252184037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're generally wrapped all over the plac.e < 1252184039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place. < 1252184055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? There are some parts of some of the houses that have bad coverage < 1252184063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad antennas. < 1252184091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well one of them which couldn't connect had an older non-pre-N thinkpad. < 1252184105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1252184113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had one of those 9-cell batteries < 1252184121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really looks awkward < 1252184137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Eh, I don't need more range than 1 small building. < 1252184150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use 3G internet for everywhere else. < 1252184158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Howso < 1252184192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe it differs nowdays, but it was sticking out about 4 cm, and not straight out but more like __// < 1252184193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've come across anything else than Scheme, C, C++, Java, Python, Prolog, MATLAB and some MIPS assembler on university courses. Well, except a really tiny bit of PL/SQL, and Sparc assembler on the compiler course since that was the target arch. It's been so very boring and mainstream. < 1252184195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1252184203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where that should have been _/ in fact < 1252184222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ThinkPad was this? < 1252184237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it doesn't matter when you have it plonked somewhere does it? < 1252184284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one marked IBM. Don't remember exact model. Looked similar to mine though, slightly smaller, and had card reader below single PC-card slot on the side (instead of two express card slots on the side and a card reader a bit below the touchpad < 1252184285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1252184307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :widescreen? < 1252184342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think so < 1252184347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A random, rather-obvious observation: Erroneously spatial interfaces are even more noticeable on notebooks. < 1252184355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 16:10 < 1252184366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*8:4 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. < 1252184366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not 16:9 < 1252184369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1252184376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no 16:9 ThinkPads < 1252184392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure? < 1252184413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures. < 1252184421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are, without exception, glossy. < 1252184428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPads are business notebooks. < 1252184434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all matte. < 1252184450 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252184460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1252184464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1252184475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because one of the R500 models I looked at was 16:9 iirc... < 1252184484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1252184496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh maybe it was a non-R500 then. < 1252184498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1252184503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1252184512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, not a ThinkPad. < 1252184526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there are thinkpads with blue-ray < 1252184533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1252184535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example that one with two screens < 1252184539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1252184542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be ordered with blue-ray < 1252184550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing about that contradicts what I said, though. < 1252184560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's a thinkpad. < 1252184567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1252184581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at reading: < 1252184589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:00] ehird: Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures. < 1252184614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it isn't 16:9, but still blu-ray < 1252184620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue* < 1252184628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Affirmation of the consequent < 1252184638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, it is "blu" < 1252184653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent < 1252184699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you mean it a 16:10 with blu-ray is ok? < 1252184723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bad notebooks have BluRay" != "BluRay means it's a bad notebook" < 1252184727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallacy; not what I said; kthx. < 1252184737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1252184744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tee hee: " A modem. - Make sure you get a so called 'WinModem'. These modems are enhanced to work better with Windows Millennium, and represent very good value for money.") < 1252184756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1252184767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I think my laptop has a modem of some kind < 1252184782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't seen it in lspci or anywhere else inside linux though < 1252184784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where's that quote from? < 1252184787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.8.5.172749.2140.html < 1252184798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1252184803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note because people really mistake this: Adequacy is not serious. < 1252184804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that some joke site? < 1252184825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the famous "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker", like 90% of the comments take it seriously. < 1252184869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: < 1252184879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by < 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, < 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone. < 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your son has undergone a sudden change in his style of dress, you may have a hacker on your hands. Hackers tend to dress in bright, day-glo colors. < 1252184910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may wear baggy pants, bright colored shirts and spiky hair dyed in bright colors to match their clothes. They may take to carrying "glow-sticks" and some wear pacifiers around their necks. < 1252184913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular hacker software includes "Comet Cursor", "Bonzi Buddy" and "Flash". < 1252184915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are just some choice quotes, so I really can't see how anyone can believe it. < 1252184922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, I think I fell for it the first time. < 1252184926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was young! < 1252184937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you... fell... for it? < 1252184939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252184950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like almost everyone in the 10 pages of comments < 1252184956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very long pages too < 1252184971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the end I was seething. < 1252184995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what I'm asking is: joke site or lunatic? < 1252185001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke, of course! < 1252185004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is hard to tell the difference < 1252185006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought it was a lunatic years ago. < 1252185015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't ever think it was true, of course) < 1252185030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean... first time I saw that conservopedia (spelling?) I thought it was a joke site... < 1252185032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, troll, rather. < 1252185039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Half of the editors probably are < 1252185042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was making fun of extreme conservatives < 1252185045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the other half sees it and agrees with it < 1252185051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, extreme? < 1252185058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty mainstream Republican party stuff in the US. < 1252185068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that is *very* fucking scary < 1252185075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, In the eyes of an European yes < 1252185089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the UK, which is also quite right-wing, it's insane < 1252185105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and I think UK is pretty insane < 1252185108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is there anywhere that's more right-wing on average than the US < 1252185115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: North Korea < 1252185127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that extreme right or extreme left, though? < 1252185148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly it went past the point where you can see any difference < 1252185151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know economically, but it's pretty much pure fascism and oppression < 1252185155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it wraps around < 1252185160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is right-wing < 1252185165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't Sovjet that too? < 1252185171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252185171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: downtreading most of the populace is left-wing behaviour, though < 1252185172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1252185177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soviet in English right? < 1252185180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True < 1252185181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1252185184 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252185186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252185188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's add another direction: fuckedupwards. < 1252185206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this we can conclude that North Korea and the Soviet Union were socially fuckedupwards on the left-right scale. < 1252185213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an extreme right-wing North Korea wouldn't train up massive armies; it would instead say everyone had to join the army or they'd get no pay < 1252185217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw some political two-axis chart thingy some time ago < 1252185223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an attached web quiz < 1252185226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the political compass < 1252185228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's godo < 1252185229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good < 1252185231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes < 1252185233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further left than Gandi :P < 1252185238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gandhi < 1252185245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, further down in that chart too? < 1252185252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was that < 1252185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot < 1252185258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was further left socially, dunno about economically < 1252185269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I think a MIDI of this song sounds much different than the actual song < 1252185281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not socialist or communist economically, I'm a filthy regulated capitalist < 1252185282 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sort of fundamentialists => trouble. < 1252185287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I ended up further left for both parameters < 1252185307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You are a true thinker of this age for that stunning insight :P < 1252185311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like all midis < 1252185314 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252185322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1252185323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new person < 1252185324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run! < 1252185327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, pretty much given due to there being no vocals in MIDI. Well except possibly GM "Voice synth: Ah" or something like that < 1252185331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the vocals in the actual song are masking the part of the melody that I like < 1252185333 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1252185350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, hi < 1252185351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the MIDI on-hand though :( < 1252185369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what about that esolang using MIDI < 1252185373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there was several < 1252185377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details < 1252185391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't xfire the name of a chat thing for games? < 1252185418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the name of a rather good gameshow here in the UK a few years ago, too < 1252185426 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, I like it though < 1252185451 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't just right-wing fundamentialists that are scary. Just e.g. watch some creationist videos... At worst they maintain that the Earth doesn't rotate and that Earth is the center of the universe... Scary. < 1252185458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, naturally. < 1252185465 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6000 yrs old < 1252185482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The flat earth society, too < 1252185497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that implies geocentrism and non-rotational...ism. < 1252185516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people in the flat earth society are just playing devil's advocate, to get people to think for themselves < 1252185518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: Anyway, hi, this is about programming languages not esotericism. < 1252185523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most on the forums, yes. < 1252185528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The society itself is dead. < 1252185536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are the believers on the forum; they have their own subforum. < 1252185540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is downright scary. < 1252185561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, are you here for esoteric programming languages or the other type? (If the latter you ended up in the wrong place) < 1252185567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pre-empted you. < 1252185573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right you did < 1252185589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know what the other type is < 1252185594 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here about the programming languages. I've made one on the wiki < 1252185601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, which one? < 1252185602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism < 1252185608 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo < 1252185618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252185630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo is better than most first languages by far < 1252185638 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks :) < 1252185661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the language of Sgeo, "asldf" means "Hello". There. Esoterica < 1252185669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed. < 1252185677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks quite ok < 1252185704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Funnily enough, that's as bad an esolang as it is esoterica < 1252185787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't all esoteric languages a sort of esoteric? Only those who've learned from somewhere know them < 1252185803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, all programming languages, come to think of it < 1252185803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that definition everything is esoteric < 1252185848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math might not be. < 1252185868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh huh? People know maths without learning it? < 1252185904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mathematical concepts might be independently derived. Not the symbols, I guess. That's why I said "might not be" < 1252185917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything can be independently derived < 1252185937 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some languages don't have numbers or the concept of counting within them. < 1252186024 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the two esoteric langs I have come up with (I should describe them), neither has any concept of numbers nor arithmetic. < 1252186071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means natural langs < 1252186082 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I did. < 1252186090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, langs based on ln()? < 1252186115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost time to clean < 1252186121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go clean now < 1252186133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that sounds like an interesting esolang idea. Something based on logarithms < 1252186145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Sgeo notified us for those crucial settings < 1252186147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't some natural languages have "one, two, many" or something like that? < 1252186148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seconds < 1252186150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now to come up with something interesting for those ideas) < 1252186177 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is Polynesian tribes or something. < 1252186230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a wifi router that gets its internet connection from a wifi-connected computer. < 1252186243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can e.g. share mobile internet at a meetup of some sort without plugging in your notebook. < 1252186244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, some classification had "class 0 natural numbers" go up to 6... < 1252186264 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that an Access point? < 1252186285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might exist but I'm not so sure about the wifi-sourced connection bit; don't they use ethernet generally? < 1252186289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does, not might < 1252186300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc wireless routers that get their connection from ethernet exist < 1252186324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why use an AP at all < 1252186332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the alternative? < 1252186334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the computer can act as one can't it? < 1252186342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIFI ad-hoc mode? < 1252186347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does that work? < 1252186352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So that's what that's for? < 1252186358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, cool, never mind then. < 1252186367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well that and I'm pretty sure I heard about someone using a mac-mini (running freebsd) as a regular AP < 1252186373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you need, like, software or something? < 1252186381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To routerise. < 1252186395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there must be something for it. < 1252186398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But that is just an command away < 1252186460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean it is trivial to use the NAT module in iptables to set up a bridge < 1252186463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or NAT < 1252186467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, then. < 1252186470 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the computer that acts as gateway... But other computers have to be configured to use it as gateway. < 1252186499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCP might work... < 1252186500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure how trivial it is to set up the computer's wlan card as an AP though, but I'm pretty sure it is possible < 1252186506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not as ad-hoc mode) < 1252186521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Can't they just connect to it as a wifi network? < 1252186523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well yes dhcp is trivial to get working too < 1252186533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure the answer is "yes" < 1252186548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not for ad-hoc mode obviously < 1252186565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it with ad-hoc mode? < 1252186578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unsure. But ad-hoc mode is more like a p2p mode < 1252186641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... iwconfig wlan0 mode (Managed|Ad-Hoc|Master|Repeater|Secondary|Monitor|Auto) < 1252186647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is how you set the mode < 1252186656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on linux that is) < 1252186677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Master is the mode to use for acting as an AP < 1252186685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Managed is the normal mode < 1252186689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you connect to an AP < 1252186700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An issue with that wifi-sourced AP, anyway, is that it'd need batteries and such. < 1252186703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could then setup NAT as well as a DHCP server < 1252186711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes obviously. < 1252186723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was connected to a power plug < 1252186725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be deathly if they ran down before your computer. < 1252186726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and "Master" doesn't work everywhere; but certainly for many chipsets. < 1252186741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? Didn't know that < 1252186765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode. < 1252186781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I haven't tried anything but managed mode < 1252186787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252186844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw does anyone know if firewire 400 and firewire 800 devices can interoperate? < 1252186854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case I was thinking about ethernet over firewire < 1252186869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did OS X's "Internet sharing" from my 3G modem to WLAN at the department student seminar thing which was out there in the wilderness; I'm not sure whether that makes the computer look like an AP or just publishes an ad-hoc wlan network, since obviously I couldn't see it myself. Other people had no trouble connecting, though. < 1252186925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't have built in wlan? < 1252186944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes, of course, but there was no wlan available out there. < 1252186952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the usb stick then? < 1252186959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252186961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G modem. < 1252186961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to use the built-in wlan to share the interwebs I got from the 3G stick to other people. < 1252186965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile internet. < 1252186970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode." < 1252186975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1252186977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded like it was a wlan thingy < 1252186980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from time before the iBook. < 1252186983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1252186994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That was basically my hypothetical usecase, btw. < 1252187007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this iBook is one of the G4 ones and not a silly clamshell right? < 1252187007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway yes of course it is possible. < 1252187008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, :( < 1252187009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sux :P < 1252187026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the iBook G4. < 1252187032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaame < 1252187046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoulda got one of those scorching 12" PowerBooks :P < 1252187050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a clamshell G3 one. Which would by that logic be even cooler < 1252187059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no clamshell G4s < 1252187071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1252187073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure. < 1252187077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Clamshell_iBook_G3.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Ibook12.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg < 1252187093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note how ugly that second one's keyboard is!) < 1252187111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, all those strange squiggles in place of letters." < 1252187118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that :P < 1252187131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks crappy to type on. < 1252187190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's true. The G4 keyboard is not painful, though my space bar has a crack in the middle. < 1252187256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By schorching I meant literally; those 12" PowerBook G4s — http://www.wap.org/journal/jan03/powerbookg500.jpg – were known to be unkind to thighs. < 1252187287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pain is the price you pay for a spiffy laptop. < 1252187298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, I think "notebook". < 1252187318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, laps. < 1252187345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just be sure to wear something non-flammable. < 1252187365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaim-Thinklight is a plugin for the multiprotocol messenger Gaim that makes the ThinkLight flash on incoming instant messages" < 1252187367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1252187378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it's by that german haskell... dude. < 1252187421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, archive.org respects robots.txt even for vanished sites < 1252187447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is (was?) a kernel config option in the ppc-arch Linux kernel that made the "I'm sleeping" led in the iBook work as a HD led, flickering on disk activity. I think nowadays the led's been included in the sysfs-or-whatever-controllable things. < 1252187461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ThinkLight illuminates the whole keyboard, though. < 1252187466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis rather more noticable. < 1252187473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticeable < 1252187481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ThinkLight usually used for? < 1252187481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's like that. < 1252187502 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Archlinux user? < 1252187521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1252187532 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1252187542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. What made you think so? < 1252187552 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ppc-arch Linux kernel" < 1252187561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that was just "ppc-architecture". < 1252187564 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252187573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about. < 1252187584 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is awesome :D < 1252187606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a Debianist-by-tradition-if-not-for-other-reasons myself. < 1252187610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this Logitech Illuminated backlight is somehow computer-controllable too. There's a special physical button to switch between "off" and the three intensity levels, it might be that they haven't bothered to build in any support for communicating back to the keyboard. < 1252187638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:51] Sgeo: What is the ThinkLight usually used for? < 1252187641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminating the whole keyboard. < 1252187649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when it's controllled < 1252187651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled < 1252187657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1252187668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A notification, if you mean the gaim plugin. < 1252187680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "Hey, you got IMed, look at your taskbar". < 1252187686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other programs use the ThinkLight like that? < 1252187691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what I meant < 1252187714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Related: http://tinyurl.com/mnos6w < 1252187800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Kopete, and Evolution *spit* < 1252187818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Creationism instead. < 1252187823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "Creation" I guess. < 1252187844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure. <-- professional? < 1252187850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lolwut? < 1252187852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the opposite < 1252187856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a kid's fake laptop < 1252187858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, those spelling tutor things < 1252187872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Evolution do that Thunderbird+extensions can't do? < 1252187875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, this "lsusb -v" output for this keyboard is rather strange: there's 2 USB interfaces on the thing; first one is a HID-class Keyboard-protocol one (which makes sense) but the second one speaks the HID "Mouse" protocol. Both only do interrupt-transfers from the keyboard to computer, though. < 1252187876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that sounds familiar < 1252187885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw one once < 1252187886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing. < 1252187892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: New species! < 1252187897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Linux do that Windows can't do, apart from not suck? < 1252187897 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here? < 1252187900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, besides be all GNOME-exclusive-y) < 1252187905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey don't steal my joke < 1252187916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, sync to pda without too much pain possibly < 1252187921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and calendar < 1252187923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: I use OS X, but on my new notebook will probably dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu or something. < 1252187936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, run the games that I want to play, without pain in either setting up WINE or setting up a VM < 1252187946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Thunderbird has a caldendar extension < 1252187959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Using your same method of talking, Thunderbird can't be called Evolution < 1252187960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here? <-- I certainly do < 1252187967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you not comprehend that other people have different preferences? < 1252187969 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in linux, you could run it with a VM (XP) with less RAM required than Vista < 1252187969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I bet it is pretty common, not everyone though < 1252188008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: But not much less than 7 < 1252188016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, VMs still don't work very well for 3D games. < 1252188037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What other programs use the ThinkLight like that? <-- anything that can be made to poke a file in /proc iirc < 1252188038 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can boot with less that 70mb RAM being used, that's into Openbox < 1252188044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it /sys? < 1252188057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, I prefer to use mine for what they are actually intended for < 1252188060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably in /sys, that's more modern. < 1252188066 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick XP ontop, ~200mb, can 7 do it <300mb? < 1252188072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think you can do it both ways < 1252188093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who I know use Linux in here: ais523, AnMaster, BeholdMyGlory, bsmntbombdood_, clog (:P), comex_, Deewiant, EgoBot (:P), fizzie, fungot, GregorR, HackEgo (:P), pikhq. < 1252188094 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! we must use? take off. get off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! < 1252188101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fungot (:P) < 1252188101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but, we are far outnumbered! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop, crono! < 1252188119 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252188133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysfs-poking says the "keyboard" interface is event0, and the "mouse" in the keyboard is event1. What. < 1252188197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1252188197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Linux sometimes < 1252188197 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you! take! we find! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca < 1252188235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about. <-- me for example, I use Gentoo, Arch and Ubuntu. < 1252188251 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Arch :D < 1252188265 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to love Pacman < 1252188271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! ... < 1252188274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, when it's controllled <-- it is to light up your keyboard. When it is dark. Fn+PgUp toggles it on/off. < 1252188274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, brb. < 1252188321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 <-- wait I missed that. What is the sword alone thingy? < 1252188321 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a machine that looks like you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! < 1252188334 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252188336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's what it often says in this ct style. < 1252188346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often? < 1252188355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes, but repeatedly. < 1252188365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it likes ! though < 1252188371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it do that, anyway? < 1252188421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I really should try that game. What with everything now I don't dare try to get it though. If you see what I mean. < 1252188445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don'y grok this keyboard. All normal key comes via the event0 device; but few of the silly media-keys ("home", "email", "search", uh... "a guy", "calculator", "eject", "music", "rewind", "play/pause", "fast forward") but not all (for example "thing-with-many-windows" and "cog-in-front-of-screen") come through event1. < 1252188457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The things in quotes are my interpretations of the icons here.) < 1252188474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "a guy"? < 1252188487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thing with many windows"? < 1252188494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cog in front of screen"? < 1252188497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PIC! < 1252188501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252188521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just this icon of a person in there, how am I supposed to know what it means? I guess it could look a little like something I've seen in a MSN-messenger-related context. < 1252188562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and typically all other keys except those three generate some keysyms according to xev. < 1252188586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a picture of this already available, I'll try to find it. That camera battery is somewhere I'm not sure where. < 1252188623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys. < 1252188662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminated? < 1252188669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this sounds like a conspiracy! < 1252188674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no insert button? < 1252188678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here's a big picture: http://www.ricdes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/21.jpg < 1252188689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is < 1252188690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're going to have to ask logitech; but it's there above del, actually. < 1252188692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it up there < 1252188696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is there no scroll lock button < 1252188718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Scroll-lock's a Fn-style function on pause/break. And really, I have no clue what's up with the layout. < 1252188731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1252188735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just felt nice to write with, and they hadn't done *completely* horrible things to it. < 1252188754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bottom row (with space bar) is raised a bit too much though. < 1252188760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caps lock button seems unnotched, which is nice < 1252188784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't look like full depth? < 1252188792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like. < 1252188795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that I mean traditional one < 1252188802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a bit flat. < 1252188804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't stand then on full sized ones < 1252188808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're alright; better than rubber dome, at least < 1252188818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somehow ok on laptops though < 1252188822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, rubber dome? < 1252188845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how can you survive without "insert"? < 1252188848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What almost every non-laptop keyboard these days comes with. < 1252188872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly this keyboard I have here is showing slight jwz tendencies on ctrl and shift. Far from as bad yet < 1252188885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just press delete accidentally instead. (Okay, not *every* time, and there *is* insert, it's just in the wrong place.) < 1252188886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work? < 1252188889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As we just discussed, insert is there, just dislocated. < 1252188915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would what work? < 1252188922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Dome-switch_keyboard ? < 1252188925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah see it now < 1252189017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a weird sort of cross between the traditional and the modern turned-90-degrees strangeness, like the one seen in http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/23893_01.jpg < 1252189057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's the modern one. I'm not sure, I've just been seeing "2x3-sized-block instead of 3x2-sized block" keyboards in the recent years. < 1252189058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shudder that turned looks horrible < 1252189073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fashion seems to have passed a bit now. < 1252189103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think mine is rubber dome, yet it is quite nice to type on, compared to many other rubber dome ones. < 1252189106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of "dump /dev/input/eventN format events in a human-readable form" app, but I can never remember the name. < 1252189143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are differences. But just about all rubber-dome switches suck compared to just about all mechanical switches. < 1252189155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I never liked the clicky sound < 1252189161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the feeling was nice < 1252189169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well. < 1252189184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice < 1252189338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx has a Flash video in which a person demonstrates the sounds of various switches < 1252189372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No rubber dome for comparison, though, IIRC. < 1252189384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it was called evdump. But dumping the events didn't help me much; it's like they've just arbitrarily decided to send a few of the USB key events through another endpoint, and one which says it speaks the "Mouse" HID protocol, yet still send key events. Or something. < 1252189458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh. Got those keys working though? < 1252189467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you wouldn't use them much < 1252189526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all but one fn key combo works on my thinkpad. And that is Fn-PrtSc which is sysrq. Can't get magic sysrq to work < 1252189543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evdump says the thing-with-a-guy sends KEY_MESSENGER, but the two others send nothing recognizable. < 1252189559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a KEY_MESSEGNER defined? < 1252189603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252189614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252189618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained." < 1252189624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of standard is it in? < 1252189637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define KEY_MESSENGER 0x1ae /* AL Instant Messaging */ < 1252189642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously no sort of standard. < 1252189659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, likely that other keyboards would define 0x1ae to be something else then? < 1252189691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that it's in the HID standards, actually. < 1252189698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252189706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to check now. < 1252189708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there a C compiler key? < 1252189716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252189765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I watch the MST3k episode for Future War? < 1252189794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that; just "launching" a C compiler is probably not that useful. < 1252189809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a KEY_DATABASE, though. < 1252189831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1252189841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, KEY_VI and KEY_EMACS? < 1252189868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway these are the linux kernel keysyms, from the input layer; it's the driver's problem to translate whatever physical the keyboard sends into KEY_MESSENGER properly. I guess I could check which bit of code does that. < 1252189959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yes; /dev/input/by-id shows the first one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-kbd" and the second one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-mouse". < 1252189965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one rather strange mouse, I think. < 1252190016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252190097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: give me some markovness < 1252190097 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? < 1252190101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "hid-lg" driver doing -- in lg_wireless_mapping -- case 0x1014: lg_map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); My keyboard could possibly be handled by that, even though it's not wireless. < 1252190110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252190110 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252190115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1252190116 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1252190120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger seems like the best corpus yet < 1252190138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best in which sense? < 1252190142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a matter of taste; I don't think AnMaster liked it much, or ehird either. < 1252190190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm fine with it < 1252190192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the messenger key might even be in the standards; from hid-input.c: "case HID_UP_CONSUMER: /* USB HUT v1.1, pages 56-62 */ -- case 0x1bc: map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); break;" < 1252190194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it seems to be relatively verbose < 1252190204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't get the reference due to never having played the game < 1252190213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the messenger key? < 1252190223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also the only one done with the variable-length n-gram toolkit, though with probably suboptimal parameters. < 1252190243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might explain something. < 1252190245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's this icon of a... well, a guy, in one of the "media keys" of my keyboard. We were wondering what it does. < 1252190266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the button for opening MSN Messenger < 1252190274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of Microsoft's latest attempts to do yet more subtle lock-in < 1252190290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I hate Messenger so much... < 1252190317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logo is not actually exactly the MSN/Live Messenger buddy-icon guy. < 1252190329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think I've seen this particular one somewhere. < 1252190385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe I've seen it on my keyboard. Eh. < 1252190396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it on someone else's keyboard < 1252190407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, keyboards are so complicated nowadays, it doesn't really seem to help < 1252190421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the random extra buttons are so far away that just chording with another modifier key is faster to type < 1252190443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even shift-F11 is faster than pressing the shortcut-menu key, on this relatively simple laptop keyboard < 1252190446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have to move my hand < 1252190487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shortcut menu? < 1252190489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, it is in the USB standard. < 1252190492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is shift-F11? < 1252190510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-f11 seems to insert something cryptic in my terminal when I try it < 1252190510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on Windows, they're the keyboard equivalent of right-clicking on whatever's keyboard-focused < 1252190521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you mean my compose key ;P < 1252190523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HID usage tables, "consumer page", 1BC -- "AL [Application Launch] Instant Messaging". < 1252190550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's possibly quite a good key to use as a compose key < 1252190556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I have a compose key at all, it's C-x 8 < 1252190556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I sucessfully managed to talk PPP with my phone, didn't manage to connect using it though < 1252190570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet on it works though < 1252190578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not internet with computer using it < 1252190602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are rather strange keys in here; "AL" launch keys for: "Digital Wallet", "Online Community", "Market Monitor/Finance Browser", "Research/Search Browser", "Customized Corporate News Browser". < 1252190603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, caps lock as additional ctrl btw < 1252190660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for some reason enabling blue tooth makes the computer "hiss". Very odd. High pitched noise (think CRT) < 1252190676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar issue that I had with some usb devices (sometimes) < 1252190685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bluetooth shows up in lsusb hm < 1252190691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1252190828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaactually hey, it might be that the keys that come through the other event device because the keysyms are from another "usage class" (consumer device, vs. keyboard). Still doesn't explain why it pretends to be a mouse, though. < 1252190852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old mouse pretended to be a keyboard, IIRC. < 1252190978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1252191236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:10] fizzie: http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no dudes, really ugly font, and ugh, I hate that layout of the del/home/end bit (have it on a keyboard here) < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:13] fizzie: It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scissor-switches are godly. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:19] Deewiant: There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well. < 1252191239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still bottom out a hard surface, so it's clickier than rubber dome. Also, tactile switches are the devil; they're harder to type on, in my experience. But you can get non-clicky non-tactile mechanical switches too. < 1252191242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:26] ais523: from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained." < 1252191245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first part is probably a direct quote. < 1252191247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flood over! < 1252191257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, probably < 1252191265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as "decentlength" isn't a correctly spelt word < 1252191279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an interesting concept, though < 1252191282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably finished "lazy ass/bastard" or something. < 1252191312 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can buy a Model M-style keyboard to replace a laptop keyboard with :) < 1252191410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A MEETING FAR, FAR AWAT < 1252191412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AWAY < 1252191420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you wouldn't replace the keyboard, you'd just use an external one < 1252191446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we are going to leverage the synergistic opperCLACK CLACK CLACKof the business poteCLACK CLACK CLACK and we SHUT THE FUCK UP, JOHN! < 1252191452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That isn't portable. < 1252191473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always befuddles me when people buy a notebook and proceed to bog it down with a ton of stationary accessories. < 1252191518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm somewhere in between; I can use my laptop either by itself or with accessories < 1252191520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There was a bigger picture later; the "guy" is in F4. < 1252191528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an external mouse if I want to do mouse stuff at all, for instance < 1252191533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't one word missing from this fungot style? < 1252191540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but overnight I'll just balance it on top of the duvet, and use it with nothing but the power cable < 1252191540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the MSN guy, at least. < 1252191547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hello? < 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca < 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1252191552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might just be some Logitech guy. < 1252191554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252191555 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252191559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1252191559 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1252191562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252191565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi < 1252191565 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the shape data in the corresponding ram at 57344-65535 ( e000-ffff). to do with the formula hibyte=int(ad/ 156) and an overflow error will occur. the opening of an and operation with the problem of mistaking the keyboard < 1252191567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, wow that Fn key is huge and replaces the windows/alt keys. < 1252191570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they hate ergonomics. < 1252191571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1252191572 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1252191573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi < 1252191574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in the taskbar or alt-tab < 1252191575 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191580 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well meh now I hit it's limit < 1252191590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I plan to use my notebook with nothing plugged in or associated (wirelessly), even the power cable (unless at a desk). < 1252191591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1252191595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the fn thing is another drawback in this. I don't really use it. < 1252191608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whatever that word for "only happened once" was < 1252191611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1252191611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1252191620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes my standards for the notebook a lot more stringent, which is good because I don't want to be stuck using something inferior outsid. < 1252191623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*outside < 1252191647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I also have a requirement to get a laptop, not a notebook, so I should probably say that. < 1252191650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huhwat, what word? < 1252191658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1252191660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252191664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that one < 1252191666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what he means < 1252191667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1252191668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot it XD < 1252191684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "only happened once" like *that*. Right. < 1252191687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit slow. < 1252191694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom only "happened" once. < 1252191698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She isn't very good in bed. < 1252191703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway why isn't it saying fnord at all now? < 1252191722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do the replace-rare-token-with-UNK with all models. < 1252191733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unk unk unk < 1252191746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly for ones like the Chrono Trigger script where there's so little of data. < 1252191749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there aren't any notebooks that come with cooling pads attached < 1252191759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1252191759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1252191765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something fnordy, please. < 1252191766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a piece of source code anywhere there's whitespace. i think < 1252191772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252191784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't fnordy. But it should still be saying it occasionally. < 1252191790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 'ardly hever 'appens < 1252191791 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am listening to johnny cash fnord prison blues. -w and use strict; mitigate that somewhat, but it < 1252191801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're better at this. < 1252191816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Perl switches helps mitigate the effects of Johnny Cash's album Fnord Prison Blues. < 1252191817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1252191832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, song. < 1252191852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://xkcd.com/628/ may be relevant here < 1252191867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can reference xkcd. I am culturally relevant ETC < 1252191883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2009/08/comic-628-i-predict-this-comic-sucks-i.html :P < 1252191901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you cannot, you can only blather cynically < 1252191979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly 628 was quite good. < 1252192283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :D < 1252192297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252192311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read it hours ago < 1252192320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and yeah that annotation was great < 1252192323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say that as if it _matters_ < 1252192331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't read it yeat < 1252192334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course it does < 1252192334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet < 1252192360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean the deconstruction of the humour in the comment makes ryan north seem normal < 1252192368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/comment/annotation/ < 1252192378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't referring to your second line. how fast do you think i type? < 1252192394 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252192399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you asked for it, if you haven't read it before mentioning it... it is your own fault) < 1252192411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1252192429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never mention it before I read it myself < 1252192443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if I mention it first I don't provide any spoilers until I'm sure you read it too < 1252192471 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252192472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you mentioned it first this time... of course that means I'm free to provide spoilers :P < 1252192482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything... < 1252192511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are predictably "gee this is horrible mindbending advertising" followed up by "LOL YEAH MAC USERS ARE DUMB". < 1252192535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like how the blue screened monitor is shiny.) < 1252192536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything... <--- is the icon for pc server actually like that on macs? < 1252192536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU < 1252192540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes < 1252192546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252192566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is a CRT too right? < 1252192570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252192579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with non flat surface < 1252192580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252192597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a flat CRT other than the old TV in my life. < 1252192603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a low-end curmudgeon! < 1252192608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a whippersnapper. WHO KNOWS < 1252192611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seen both flat and curved CRTs < 1252192630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see one of those super-awesome high end flat CRTs just so I can laugh at it because it's still blurry and whiny. < 1252192643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whiny yes, but not blurry < 1252192651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my experience at least < 1252192658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less whiny than low end ones < 1252192660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every CRT I've seen has been extraordinarily blurry; is there really _that_ much variance? < 1252192668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think it's inherent, knowing how CRTs work. < 1252192672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you never seen high end ones then < 1252192675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels... < 1252192680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Health concerns < 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related terms: < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic waste < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different from Template:See, this template takes a mutiple parameters of any length. < 1252192719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is true, but I'm talking about good ones at pre-press or similar. Seen those since I know someone working on a newspaper. < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use commas and joining words like "and" or "or" as separators. < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember to wikilink the target pages; the template does not do it automatically. < 1252192721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia < 1252192725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed up by: < 1252192726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also < 1252192727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{Details}} < 1252192729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{main}} < 1252192731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{See also}} < 1252192733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{For}} < 1252192735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section template samples < 1252192737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Yes" as in "indeed, I haven't". < 1252192750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um < 1252192757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, IPS gets such good colour reproduction nowadays that anyone buying a new CRT in such a field is just stupid. < 1252192759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "that is true" as in " They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels..." < 1252192761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252192764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252192815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the colours were awesome. And calibrated with high end hang on thingy. Of course this was a few years ago. As in "when apple still made high end pre-press CRTs" < 1252192829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey yeah, Apple did used to make CRTs. < 1252192849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, old imacs had CRTs < 1252192853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather good ones IME < 1252192861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1252192863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I used first and second model imacs too < 1252192871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iMac CRTs are blurry. < 1252192878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not as bad as most PC ones < 1252192886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one (I broke its optical drive somehow after wiping the OS so it won't boot) < 1252192888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the good apple ones were MUCH better < 1252192902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple seem to be rather a fan of high-quality displays; Apple's 24" glossy Cinema Display, aimed squarely at the secondary notebook display crowd, is IPS... < 1252192925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1252192931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and therefore everyone goes "OMG APPLE MARKUP" because it costs $899, having now idea what the words IPS or TN mean. < 1252192942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1252192956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't everyone using IPS? < 1252192958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: TN = twisted-nematic? < 1252192962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also LED backlit, making it part of a very rare breed: LED-backlit IPS. < 1252192964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1252192965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = ? < 1252192973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = Best LCD technology EVAR < 1252192976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Postal Service! < 1252192980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1252192983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge gamut, really wide viewing angles (basically NO colour distortion) < 1252192987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1252192992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that's a damned good monitor. < 1252192993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those people who knows enough electronics to know about twisted-nematics, but not enough ehirdness to know whether it's meant to be good or bad < 1252192995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the downside now again? < 1252192999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price? power usage? < 1252193002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1252193005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably price < 1252193017 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252193023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downsides: It's very thick, so you'll only find it on separate units. It's heavy, so ditto. And the displays cost around $1,000. < 1252193031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1252193042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so not very "flat" screen then? < 1252193049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flat, just a bit thick. < 1252193050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which makes sense -- Apple has always been obsessive about their display quality) < 1252193059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said "very" thick < 1252193061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's 24" is 19cm deep and probably the thinnest. < 1252193074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are as thick as modern iMacs. < 1252193077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 19 cm? wow < 1252193081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picture < 1252193090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.apple.com/displays/ < 1252193091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously want to see this < 1252193098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TN has terrible colour reproduction, and the colours distort very quickly if you tilt them a bit < 1252193107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're thin and cheap, so they're on almost all notebooks and desktops < 1252193114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it was invented for black-and-white, so I'm not at all surprised < 1252193129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're looking at right now is almost certainly TN. < 1252193132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252193135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the iMac displays are IPS. < 1252193141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine certainly has all the properties of it. < 1252193144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's pretty good for looking at images with borked alphas < 1252193153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gammas < 1252193153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer models are glossy, mine isn't. < 1252193159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty much my favourite display ever. < 1252193167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can change the gamma of the screen through a massively large range just by tilting it < 1252193171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252193173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The side profile certainly looks like most of the 19cm is still the stand, http://images.apple.com/displays/gallery/images/image4_20081014.jpg < 1252193175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this screen works in direct sunlight, which surprises me < 1252193181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I see. < 1252193187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure about that 19 cm? < 1252193189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it glossy? < 1252193191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See fizzie. < 1252193197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so < 1252193213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Just played with tilting my LCD screen a bit. < 1252193215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252193223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Glossy displays tend to wash out in the sun as opposed to matte ones, which just get blocked out < 1252193225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just reflects the sunlight rather than using a backlight < 1252193233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, glossy displays are awful indoors < 1252193237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has more colour distortion than my desktop for some reason < 1252193255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though neither is IPS. Definitely not pricey enough for that < 1252193255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this iMac has, like, two dead pixels. And the colours are perfect. And it's really sharp. Only disadvantage is that the contrast is kind of crap. < 1252193257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not noticing the usual LCD distortion. Maybe I'm just bad at noticing that on modern LCDs, because I'm pretty damned sure this is a crappy monitor. < 1252193272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wake it up from sleep in the morning and think "wow, those whites aren't very...white". < 1252193286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try moving instead and looking at it from an angle < 1252193314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Did. < 1252193317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, contrast doesn't matter iirc? < 1252193318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252193322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Backlight < 1252193325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of display contrast < 1252193327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, another disadvantage of IPS: response times < 1252193337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1252193342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1252193342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most IPSes are 16ms response time, give or take. < 1252193350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although their gray-to-gray response times are about 8ms. < 1252193353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCD is never going to get up to the response times of things like LEDs; but then, LEDs are impractical for screens smaller than a few metres < 1252193354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's fine for everything but gaming. < 1252193361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: See: OLED < 1252193365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists, but is barely noticable. < 1252193385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're thin, have good colours, incredibly good contrast and don't need any backlight. < 1252193391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can be translucent. < 1252193393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bend,. < 1252193399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use very low power. < 1252193400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252193402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are very lightweight. < 1252193405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about response time? < 1252193407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't wait for them to become practical < 1252193410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sub-1ms < 1252193416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well under < 1252193418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252193419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then why isn't everyone using them!? < 1252193424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost. < 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Very large expense right no < 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1252193429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a year or two < 1252193429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252193438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEDs have response times so good that they're often pulsed at incredibly fast speeds rather than dimming them < 1252193440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not stopping them from being used, though. < 1252193449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in displays of reasonable cost. < 1252193462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, OLEDs are like someone wrote in a deus ex machina to a book about displays. < 1252193480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, pulsing LEDs means you can put more power into them < 1252193494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can *get* OLED TV sets, they just cost a lot.) < 1252193502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're only like 11" < 1252193502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want a really bright LED display, it works better to massively overdrive them about 20% of the time and let them recover the other 80%, then run them at max continuously < 1252193508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1252193514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if PVA (compromise between IPS and TN; a bit worse colour reproduction but faster response times) is thinner than IPS. < 1252193523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's been some IPS ThinkPad at some point, though. < 1252193524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep < 1252193530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. High-quality TN is "acceptable". < 1252193559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not when it comes to colour < 1252193568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles. < 1252193575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fine for most photography, at least. < 1252193579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles. <-- same < 1252193586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think pre-press ;P < 1252193586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much did your display cost? < 1252193590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Naturally. < 1252193596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: $150-ish. < 1252193597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://static2.rubyrow.net/Advertisers/bluebox1.gif How ironic! The space is misplaced.) < 1252193603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You just have bad eyes, or got lucky. < 1252193608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your colour reproduction still sucks balls. < 1252193613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I talk about high quality monitors I mean the same thing that Apple do :P < 1252193615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1252193635 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252193644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can notice the crap color reproduction. Just not much distortion. < 1252193662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've seen it on other LCD displays. That's just... Horrifying) < 1252193662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My display doesn't even dim until I'm practically perpendicular with it < 1252193680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general I found distortion is worse on laptops than desktops < 1252193689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether all those "LOL APPLE COMPUTERS ARE OVERPRICED" comparisons include an IPS display. < 1252193727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, there is a good chunk of markup from Apple, but a lot of the price delta *is* from Apple just straight-up using more expensive parts. < 1252193750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Apple adds something like 25-30% < 1252193755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is typical for high-end products < 1252193757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1252193806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 40" OLED 1920x1200 panel from Samsung. (Of course you can't *buy* it, it was just demoed in some sort of trade show from their pilot non-mass-production line. < 1252193826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Samsung or someone are releasing a 19" OLED, iirc < 1252193827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 1920x1080. Anyway. < 1252193828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon < 1252193837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice 55dpi there. < 1252193847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a TV. < 1252193847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah, yeah, TV, I know.) < 1252193849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252193872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a 200 dpi TV be just awesome? < 1252193879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 40" demo was already back in 2008, I guess they should be getting something produced sooner or later too. < 1252193922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because anything above 1080p isn't available anywhere < 1252193930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right < 1252193936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, at around 175dpi you can't see pixels without a magnifying glass. < 1252193946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything above that just gets much more expensive quickly. < 1252193952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no kill like overkill < 1252193962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just made that up, please tell me you just made that up. < 1252193966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's STUPID. < 1252193968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill < 1252193983 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252193988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari is so irritating after having used Chrome on XP. < 1252193997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, answer is: no, I just wanted to be able to link tvtroupes < 1252194002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1252194003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's one thing that setup was, it was snappy. < 1252194004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvropes* < 1252194008 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tvropes. < 1252194036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ropes onna TV. < 1252194052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh fail at spell correction < 1252194060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you click that link? < 1252194070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and closed it after having only clicked one more page, not in a tab. < 1252194076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am manly and I have willpower. < 1252194077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn < 1252194085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean you were trying to tropise ehird < 1252194085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if you don't correct it soon that typo will be forever typo'd. < 1252194086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252194093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes of course < 1252194095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU WILL NEVER LIVE DOWN THE SHAME < 1252194099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1252194107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not? < 1252194116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, I've never visited TV Trpoes and don't know what all the fuss is about, but loads of people have warned me off it) < 1252194124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Trpoes! < 1252194126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tvtropes of course < 1252194141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's addictive because they link almost everything and it's always to an interesting and funny article about that thing with tons of examples and you click it and < 1252194145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just very... addicting < 1252194168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know that xkcd about clicking around on wikipedia for hours? Well it is kind of like that, but more extreme < 1252194187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm unlikely to know about any particular xkcd unless it's been quoted so much that you get kickbanned for quoting it again < 1252194204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ropes are the "very long strings" class in SGI's STL implementation. < 1252194205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can get kickbanned for quoting xkcd? < 1252194205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, you're not missing out on anything. xkcd suuuuuuucks lately. < 1252194226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tons of IRC channels are heavily policed in that way to make the conversation better. < 1252194229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've never seen it happen, but probably < 1252194237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://xkcd.com/214/ < 1252194242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experience shows that an anarchic environment is a lot less annoying and generally has at least as good conversation quality. < 1252194243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which one's that? < 1252194245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that one is old enough to not suck < 1252194245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. #esoteric < 1252194249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the numbers off by heart yet < 1252194252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's about Batman < 1252194253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... the one about clicking around on wikipedia < 1252194256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1252194268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop it, you're feeding his I Will Not Use a Web Browser habit :P < 1252194278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1252194283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I encourage it. < 1252194291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ;_; < 1252194298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The thing with xkcd is that there's hardly ever a punchline. < 1252194305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because, uhh, you're culturally in-the-know or something. < 1252194305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes < 1252194310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get some of them, though < 1252194323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what Wikipedia is! Sometimes I get to wildly different pages when clicking on Wikipedia. < 1252194325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have done this! < 1252194333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sympathise with me and understand my cultural position. < 1252194339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore: Ha ha ha! Humour! < 1252194343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I get that xkcd. Ever realised that you ended up clicking around for hours? < 1252194347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, xkcd is meant to be funny? < 1252194351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was meant to be insightful < 1252194360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it fails even harder at that... < 1252194367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That does not a joke make. < 1252194378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but it is insightful < 1252194393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, something xkcdsucks pointed out: Every time a girl is named in xkcd, the name Megan is used. And: http://xkcd.com/215/ < 1252194403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bawwwwwwwwwwwwww she broke up with me maybe if I mention her in my comic all the time ;_; < 1252194421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd seriously bet he actually broke up with someone called Megan < 1252194451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://xkcd.com/322/ has a girl named Joanna < 1252194470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, dark-haired girl then < 1252194474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, almost all < 1252194483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comic, incidentally, also lacks a joke < 1252194494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless his ANGER AT PEOPLE MAKING BAD JOKES ON THE INTERNET transforms into humour somehow < 1252194506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; but I'm on xkcd's IRC network atm playing mafia, and comic 322 is the strongest-enforced rule there < 1252194558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Willingly spending time around xkcd fanatics? Well, I guess mafia doesn't involve too much discussion beyond, well, mafia. < 1252194587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the channel appears to have nothing to do with xkcd in particular, apart from the server < 1252194595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly full of nomic players, it seems sometimes < 1252194601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, about the same density as this channel < 1252194601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foonetic isn't xkcd's network, btw < 1252194613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just only popular because of xkc < 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252194629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was connecting via irc.xkcd.com < 1252194634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose I could just connect directly < 1252194636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.ubuntu.com < 1252194639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Ubuntu's IRC network! < 1252194645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that is freenode right? < 1252194654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1252194655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that freenode or not? I failed to determine after trying to tell for a while < 1252194658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1252194658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why these aliases? < 1252194663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be sort-of freenode, but sort-of not < 1252194668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How is it not < 1252194679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: e.g. it recognised that the name ais523 was taken, but wouldn't let me identify < 1252194687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could have joined #esoteric to check < 1252194690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a different Freenode server. < 1252194691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, this was ages ago < 1252194701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll try < 1252194714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or just used host or nslookup < 1252194727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net." < 1252194729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252194748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: < 1252194749 0 :ais523_telnet!n=ais523_t@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.freenode.net is an alias for chat.freenode.net. < 1252194750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who even uses chat.freenode.net as opposed to irc.? < 1252194764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, everyone. indirectly < 1252194766 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, definitely the same network < 1252194770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but directly. < 1252194771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252194772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1252194774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one? < 1252194777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:52] AnMaster: "irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net." < 1252194795 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that, but I was halfway through the test already < 1252194807 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rather hard to notice other people's messages over tlenet while you're typing < 1252194812 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252194844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252194860 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my dream last night was lucid or just fake-lucid (i.e. dreaming I was lucid). < 1252194918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was certainly very apprehensive about jumping out of the window despite a good amount of proof I was dreaming. < 1252194974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that could just be my "don't jump out of windows" instinct, but I'm usually out of that window pretty quickly after becoming lucid. (I always seem to start lucid dreams in my bedroom when it's day.) < 1252195036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idea: convince him that he is dreaming to make him jump out his window?) < 1252195044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't try at home) < 1252195058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require rather drastic changes to the fabric of reality. < 1252195088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I never open it, it's always just open when I'm about to jump. < 1252195097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one time I jumped out of it while it was closed, I think. < 1252195099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about me starting talking about advanced stuff in haskell suddenly? < 1252195112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work. < 1252195156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ais talking like Mike Riley? < 1252195169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, for a long time) < 1252195183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not in the context of making some joke) < 1252195188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I remember one missed opportunity for lucidity from ages ago: I was in the bathroom, just standing around. Suddenly, a translucent, unrealistic ... old army? I don't know, but a stampede, came running through. To avoid them, even though they appeared entirely intangible, I ... went on the wall? Or just stayed to the side. Something, anyway. They passed. I remember thinking about dreams at one point, but obviously that was real. I didn't think it strange