< 1252972804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm pretty sure that it's at least okay, compared to other toolkits < 1252972805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, okayrad < 1252972812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very lukewarm opinion < 1252972822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but implies... something greater... < 1252972825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1252972897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thoughts on Obj-C are pretty meh < 1252972897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And so at 18 years of age, I moved from my tiny town of 800 people, changed my gender, moved to a new city, and tried to start a new life. I think I am failing (IAmA)." < 1252972901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to wonder how the gender part fits in here < 1252972912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly to erase eir identity < 1252972918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although consciously changing your *gender* has to be some new superpower I've never heard of < 1252972927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only heard of correcting your sex to match your gender :-P < 1252972991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terms aren't that well-defined < 1252973002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gender is mental, sex is physical < 1252973025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transgender is sex/gender mismatch, transsexual is prior sex/gender mismatch corrected by sex change < 1252973047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text makes it clear it's just a mistake, but it's amusing < 1252973101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's one definition and probably the most sensible one < 1252973130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the widely accepted one and the one all trans* (admittedly not very many) i've known have used /shrug < 1252973598 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252973600 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252973626 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252976161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers ditching his VPS and getting a NearlyFreeSpeech.NET account... < 1252976162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advantages: Less administration overhead, way cheaper (if I had a dynamic 300MB site that uses MySQL/InnoDB and served 10 GB a month, then it's around $7.50-$8 a month after the first month ($19.07 for the first month including domain registration)... so it's pretty much dirt cheap), tech savvy, minimal bullshit, they're pretty cool, good reputation, the neat thing where they mirror your site on a bunch of servers automatically and use the less populated ones < 1252976162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disadvantages: Can't run overly-intensive processes, can't mess about with root, can't use things like FastCGI (just PHP or CGI), can't run IRC bots < 1252976173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tough one :P < 1252976198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the administration thing is prolly a big deal though, my server's just sitting there because i haven't got it set up yet again < 1252976199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPS? < 1252976270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual private server; basically you get root on a Xen instance < 1252976274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like $20/mo < 1252976281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ bandwidth, storage etc < 1252976288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like a dedi, except a bit slower and way cheaper < 1252976298 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being able to run bots would suck. < 1252976300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pets HackEgo. < 1252976307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: true. you know what they should do? < 1252976318 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... allow you to run bots? < 1252976319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why can't you run IRC bots? < 1252976324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: shush you, < 1252976328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it's a web hosting service < 1252976340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use it to host software repos, some useless bloggy thing, whatever < 1252976346 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252976347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1252976353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a service thing where: < 1252976365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon's EC2 lets you spawn VPSes for an hourly rate or whatever, and they come with OSs and stuff < 1252976365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252976377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, except instead of spawning a VPS, you just spawn a procses < 1252976379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*process < 1252976380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's cheaper < 1252976384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still migrated across servers and shit < 1252976410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "run this process somewhere on your servers, I don't care, just give it an internet connection, a barebones Linux and some persistent storage" < 1252976443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd just be like $ run-remote -d botinstance/ ./start irc.freenode.net 6667 < 1252976465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd tar up botinstance, send it across, run ./start with those arguments, and persist any changes in the directory ./start is in (botinstance/) < 1252976470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could move across servers and shit automatically < 1252976485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically like nohup, except it continues running after you shut the machine down :-P < 1252976502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when it terminates you can download the final modified botinstance/) < 1252976549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like a vps, but cheaper + way simpler < 1252976570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd bring more-or-less pay for what you use pricing to VPSes, which is rather difficult with a regular sort of VPS < 1252976641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, I ramble a lot < 1252976673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, the technical reason you can't run an irc bot or fastcgi or whatever is presumably that your site is served through various servers at various times depending on load < 1252976685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252976695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and migrating processes would be a Bitch(TM), especially when for a web hosting service, IRC bots are irrelevant (they just use up resources) and FastCGI is relatively unused < 1252976708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with heavy web frameworks getting more common, it'll be an issue for them < 1252976719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Rails, Django etc don't play too nicely with a set-up-every-request CGI environment... < 1252976734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, static files are nice for anything I'd want to put on there, so that doesn't bother me < 1252976736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mainly the irc bot thing < 1252976742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you think of my remote-process idea up there? ↑ < 1252976760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: busy now, I'll look later < 1252977749 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CallForJudgement < 1252977813 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252977818 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252979172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145273.html < 1252979174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all ti signing keys factored < 1252979182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, due to a gigantic effort by the entire community, via the boinc project, we could factor keys within a week." < 1252979188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see they're putting the resources to good use! < 1252979229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I thought this was going to be a mathematical analysis of the musical keys in which Atlanta-born rapper TI can sing. I have to admit I was somewhat disappointed." < 1252979250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys are on Wikileak < 1252979260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as elsewhere < 1252979291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wikileaks < 1252979344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1252979351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI won't give a shit. < 1252979442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe they do: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/9fkzd/censorship_on_reddit_yes_here_is_the_evidence/c0cl3sq < 1252979474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retards. < 1252979493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to get my Arch install working. < 1252980468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252980817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is still shit, btw. < 1252981312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers seeing people agree with The UNIX Hater's Manual (iirc) about X sucking. < 1252981417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIX Hater's Handbook < 1252981420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uhh, no shit? < 1252981636 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-079-011.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252982291 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252983105 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252984020 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃" < 1252984866 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252985216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands CESSMASTER some sewage < 1252985606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've established it refers to ILLICIT SUBSTANCES. < 1252985671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And once you've consumed it, it becomes EXCESS" < 1252986494 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum jenkem < 1252986787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leroy Jenkems. < 1252987116 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252987330 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987362 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987364 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252987881 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252988271 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252990363 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 29 12:31:30 "Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes" —reddit <-- I thought this was a confusing name for a porn vid! < 1252990378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oldest ... logreading ... ever < 1252990379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: I figured it out. < 1252990380 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: It's a guy in a rooster costume handing out complimentary dildos to promote the opening of a new adult video store. < 1252990393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1252990398 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I had happened to type `quote and get < 1252990400 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 78 < 1252990401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78| ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? < 1252990403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm infinitely confused, dude < 1252990414 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I pasted that to somebody, then the log it came from. < 1252990424 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he figured out what it actually is :P < 1252990437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: What what actually is? < 1252990457 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes < 1252990467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252990480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how the rooster comes in, dude. < 1252990483 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG TORRENT PLZ < 1252990487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster < 1252990496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It's on scene FTP, bitch. < 1252990497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... COCK < 1252990497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fucking cock. < 1252990506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. < 1252990507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1252990526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still doesn't explain Monster. :P < 1252990549 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the dildos are monster. < 1252990571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, shaped like the penis of a monster? < 1252990574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "monster"! < 1252990581 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define monster < 1252990582 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* an imaginary creature usually having various human and animal parts \ * giant: someone or something that is abnormally large and powerful \ * freak: a person or animal that is markedly unusual or deformed < 1252990588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINARY < 1252990592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this whole story is... < 1252990595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... a FABRICATION < 1252990600 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES < 1252990610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1252990623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, to solve the mystery: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9fc4n/i_was_in_a_major_mp3_releasing_group_in_the/c0cjyyj?context=1 < 1252990954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: how much do I need to bribe you to rant about how much my remote process thingy idea sucks? < 1252990973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends, how much does it suck? < 1252990974 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1252990977 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, I recall. < 1252990989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually an interesting idea, I was considering implementing it modulo the fact that I don't have the resources. < 1252991006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you need to pay more to get criticism :D < 1252991027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252991029 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252991038 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am clumsy < 1252991054 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You keep falling ... out of the channel? < 1252991063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a trap door in the corner. < 1252991102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1252991104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1252991104 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252991107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know your duty < 1252991110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push the ` into the ^ < 1252991113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1252991113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there will no longer be a trapdoor < 1252991123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose-^ ` < 1252991124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1252991133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-/ / < 1252991276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I wish more things had Compose. < 1252991286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should set it up, but OTOH I could just get Arch woring. < 1252991352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Arch works; X11 doesn't. < 1252991368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what ehird is doing online at 5am < 1252991382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could ask the same of you < 1252991391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm on holiday < 1252991397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IIRC, school's started already < 1252991400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your logic :P < 1252991584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there isn't a flipped-` character < 1252991595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we could have better ``dumb quotes[INVALID][INVALID] < 1252991638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is annoyed at not being able to use control-click for autoscroll < 1252991652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252991657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mousewheel has started acting up, so I can't really use it for middle-clicking very easily < 1252991664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been control-clicking links to open them in new tabs < 1252991679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, the same substitution doesn't work on autoscroll < 1252991686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmodmap or sth < 1252991693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have Firefox set to paste on middle-click for textboxes, scroll on middle-click for everything else) < 1252991697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you really need to replace that computer... < 1252991710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken touchpad, associated mouse has broken button... :D < 1252991714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is it possible to map mouse buttons-modifier combinations to other mouse buttons? < 1252991720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm pretty sure < 1252991721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not completely broken, just intermittent < 1252991732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst-case, just catch Ctrl-click in a daemon < 1252991737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send a middle click event < 1252991775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is the third mouse I've been on < 1252991784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one broke, the first one was wireless and used up too much battery power < 1252991796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc the touchpad didn't work for more than about a minute < 1252991824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remember how you were incredulous at people paying more than a few hundred pounds for a computer? < 1252991830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so they don't have to deal with that shit. < 1252991833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still am < 1252991844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, despite all your claims, this computer still works sufficiently well for me to not really consider changing < 1252991856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the components break < 1252991859 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't say that when the keyboard breaks beacuse of the same shoddy engineering to cut costs < 1252991877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because < 1252991911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on my first computer (a BBC Micro B), neither the Y or B key worked < 1252991914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I worked around it < 1252991921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by redefining a couple of the function keys < 1252991933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and surely you are not surprised that other, more sane people would consider it a better solution to buy a new one? < 1252991947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it cost about £20, it was junk someone else was throwing out < 1252991952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really expect it to work well < 1252991959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are using an invalid example. < 1252991995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I buy, e.g. a cheap Dell laptop, I expect it to be a bit of a pain to get working, not have very good components, and break sooner than a more expensive alternative < 1252992012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I buy, e.g. a ThinkPad, I expect it to work fine, have good components, last longer and cost several times more < 1252992017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tradeoff < 1252992021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently sooner that the more expensive one lasts longer on average? < 1252992027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely < 1252992032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpads last like 10 yaers < 1252992035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*years < 1252992037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect people like you to upgrade often enough that you'd be upgrading before it broke, anyway < 1252992046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, could you cope with a computer that was top of the range 10 years ago? < 1252992048 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252992060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, but the point is that something that totally breaks later on, < 1252992064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will likely get defects a lot sooner < 1252992083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, things like input devices are very important, for obvious reasons < 1252992107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lower-end hardware has a tendency to... disagree... < 1252992112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with each other) < 1252992177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that it's understandable paying £800 for a sturdy, lightweight ThinkPad with long battery life, a good screen, an exceptional keyboard, the nub mouse, high-quality hardware and good compatibility, vs paying £300 for a low-end Dell < 1252992179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still amused that it came with a Windows XP manual < 1252992181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite running Linux < 1252992196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the battery life is about 10 minutes on here < 1252992198 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252992201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't mind fiddling a whole bunch, don't mind being inconvenienced at all and are on a tight budget, of course the Dell is superior < 1252992203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise... < 1252992225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that it's fast at hibernating < 1252992249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to close a notebook's lid and pick it up immediately afterwards imo < 1252992267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the suspend modes you get in linux are wrong < 1252992277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, I don't like the chance of the hard drive being knocked < 1252992287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, the high-end notebooks have shock protection on the harddrive < 1252992287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as opposed to? < 1252992291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that automatically parks the head < 1252992301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know, and it even works on Linux as of a few months ago < 1252992311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It should first go to an ultra-low-power mode, solely to suspend to disk, and then it suspends to RAM < 1252992325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that it turns off immediately, instead of taking a second or two to suspend to anything < 1252992326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I don't trust it to work in, say, the middle of a distro upgrade < 1252992336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're suspending in the middle of a distro upgrade? < 1252992338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tip: don't < 1252992344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I had to once < 1252992349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not suspending exactly < 1252992358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the screen permablanked due to a bug < 1252992364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware bug, I think < 1252992368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that? < 1252992374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the end, I had to REISUB it, in the middle of the upgrade < 1252992377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another issue with the hardware :-P < 1252992382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :credit to Debian and possibly Ubuntu that it still worked afterwards < 1252992396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I had to finish off the upgrade by giving the required apt commands at the command prompt < 1252992401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+SysRq+stuff doesn't always work :( < 1252992411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the computer was still responding fine < 1252992420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant for me < 1252992424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I did it directly to the kernel is that the GUI would never have let me abort a distro upgrade < 1252992460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if X isn't recognizing your keyboard and mouse, and it's frozen, then you can't do anything with them < 1252992487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable < 1252992497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is SysRq handled at the X level, or the kernel level? < 1252992497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying, though < 1252992501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kernel, of course < 1252992502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1252992507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but X steals the keyboard, I guess < 1252992511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252992512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then fails to do anything with it < 1252992525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SysRq was originally invented so that brand-new multitasking operating systems had some way to tell them to switch processes < 1252992536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that none of the other keys would conflict with existing programs < 1252992547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, people didn't use it, and invented alt-tab and so on instead < 1252992556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and control-alt-delete, of course) < 1252992586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to think control-alt-delete was originally security through obscurity (you could explain it to someone over the phone, but there's no chance they'd think of it by themselves, was the idea) < 1252992760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doo doo. < 1252992764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, really? < 1252992774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it for at the time? < 1252992784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rebooting < 1252992789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people weren't supposed to know that < 1252992792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252992802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to keep techies employed? < 1252992805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1252992810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because they'd lose their data if they tried it < 1252992823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and companies nearly always misjudge the technical competence of their users one way or another < 1252992960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me wonders why the inscrutable alt+unicode from windows and opt+{semi-random key/prefix} [key] caught on and compose prefix key didn't < 1252992978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Compose ' e makes more sense than Option-e e. < 1252992987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs uses C-x 8 for compose < 1252992992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easy and predictable, yet a pain to type < 1252992997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, once you know about the C-x 8 < 1252993009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, interestingly, Word has its own compose mechanisms < 1252993020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Control-' e is é < 1252993026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder what you use for ˝ with standard compose < 1252993030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite control-alt-e being e in most of the rest of Windows < 1252993040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Option+j o to make ő here < 1252993054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how X11 Compose analogises double characters < 1252993059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION peeks at the file < 1252993092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's ˝ called? < 1252993106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the hungarian double-acute? < 1252993109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a tilde? < 1252993112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :former < 1252993114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look the same at this font size < 1252993119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1252993120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erdos accent < 1252993189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-acute, apparently < 1252993189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252993205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : "Ր" U0150 # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACUTE < 1252993212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so =, which makes no sense < 1252993218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, compose is never any _worse_ than option < 1252993257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Compose / o makes far more sense than devoting Option+o to ø < 1252993268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, Option+q is œ < 1252993270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what? < 1252993278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose o e only makes about, oh, ten times more sense < 1252993361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses proper characters < 1252993384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⌥q is œ, ⎄ o e is œ < 1252993391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to type a composed oe with this keyboard mapping at all < 1252993397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although æ is altgr-a < 1252993407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the OS X system, then < 1252993415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better than windows but worse than compose < 1252993430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-punctuation mostly composes the punctuation < 1252993444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, with a random and weird key assignment, rather than the logical one < 1252993452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. altgr-; composes a ' < 1252993487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252993502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :é = ⌥e e < 1252993516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ´'s mostly used in é in english, i guess < 1252993555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and acute's the most common accent for an e altogether, I think < 1252993565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1252993568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1252993568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1252993573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preëmptive < 1252993576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW BITCH :| < 1252993605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hardly anyone writes it like that < 1252993611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252993638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's correct < 1252993662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that a while back, I was talking how it's almost impossible to connect to most IRC networks without deviating from the relevant standards < 1252993665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, you'd use the wrong port < 1252993685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :de jure standards are useless < 1252993700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc rfcs spec a protocol that happens to have the same name :) < 1252993782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9kjaf/i_am_an_exextreme_programmer_i_did_it_for_6_years/ ;; weirdest definition of extreme programming ever < 1252993790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahahahahahaha < 1252994062 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252994068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1252994106 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252994154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now possesses +1 NICK OF AWESOME < 1252994163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got it dropped? < 1252994174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :gr < 1252994178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeedidoo. < 1252994183 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GREGOR R < 1252994194 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm Spartacus. < 1252994195 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last seen 11 weeks ago! < 1252994202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My surname is not Hurd. < 1252994204 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if that's droppable. < 1252994212 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can extort Gregor for it. < 1252994214 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e < 1252994228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want "gr" < 1252994229 0 :e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Las seen 4 weeks ago! < 1252994231 0 :e!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252994231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite happy with "Gregor" < 1252994232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*last < 1252994235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I shall have the nick e. < 1252994249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Last, actually < 1252994634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/6NO0J.png < 1252994638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disappears in a puff of logic < 1252995515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1252997632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there isn't much good CSS support in text mode browsers < 1252997644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even elinks fails at any sort of layout or indeed anything beyond colours < 1252998137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I haven't seen anything like Erlang's lists-are-magically-strings in another language <-- char* in C? Also yeah it is just about how io:format() prints it given the ~w or ~p format. You can force print it as a list or as a string in either case < 1252998155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * isn't a string and it doesn't display as a string. < 1252998166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write it out as bytes if you call functions specifically for that purpose. < 1252998176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not "a string", and there is no stringification in C. < 1252998362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. This is same. io:format's ~p format writes it out as a string if it seems to make sense < 1252998372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. This is not the same hting at all. < 1252998372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~p is what the REPL uses < 1252998374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1252998382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* doesn't intrinsically display as anything < 1252998385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is still a list internally, like char* idoesn't change < 1252998387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is the inspected, human-readable output of a REPL, one is dumping bytes. < 1252998398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use %s to print it string-style, but ofc that's not the only way to print it < 1252998404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparing them is either purposeful folly or astounding denseness. < 1252998405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, there is no "intrinsically" here either, except using the format ~p (or ~w) < 1252998415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tries to autoformat them in a nice way < 1252998415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which is THE STANDARD WAY TO INSPECT AN OBJECT. < 1252998425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is USED by the REPL. < 1252998436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can use ~s to force one to be printed as a string for example < 1252998456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a REPL printing ASCII-like things as strings might be useful; I know gdb always tries to print char* as a string, for instance < 1252998461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :escaping nonprintables < 1252998472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when those things are regular integer lists < 1252998475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about char* not being stringy hm, check how gdb shows them < 1252998479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard way there < 1252998481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least indistinguishable from them < 1252998483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows it as a string < 1252998488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of escapes in < 1252998497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it isn't "string-y" < 1252998499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1252998505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm really not interested in talking to you about this, any more than I am to a brick wall < 1252998525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gprolog's weird, in that 'this is a string' and "this is an integer list taking the ASCII values of the relevant characters" < 1252998529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're two different concepts < 1252998536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok THAT is weird < 1252998546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not weird at all. < 1252998551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'foo' is not a string. < 1252998553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an atom. < 1252998554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an intlist-string casting function < 1252998556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Lisp's 'foo. < 1252998563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, atoms and strings are indistinguishable in Prolog < 1252998564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo" is a string. < 1252998568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know the terms differ, < 1252998578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an intlist is something quite different < 1252998579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm using standard terms to clarify what they *are*. < 1252998583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252998589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the string-manipulation functions work on atoms < 1252998600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, gprolog has a limit to the number of atoms a program can use < 1252998606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose you need lists for TCness < 1252998641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, old Lisps used |ATOMS TO PRINT OUT TEXT TOO|. < 1252998673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's mind is bludgeoned with the most awesome idea ever < 1252998674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the point is that erlang's ~p format (which is used by REPL indeed) will try to print anything in a nice way. This means it will even try to indent nicely if it goes multi-line for a tuple or such. And it tries to print lists that seems string-like (only printable chars and newline, plus possibly some other ones) as strings, while if it is not string like, it prints it like a [1,2,3] st < 1252998674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yle list. < 1252998680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least SWI-Prolog mixes in a third thing, which is a separate "string" data type; you can tell it to read doublequotes as strings instead of lists of integers, or to read `foo` as string, and there's atom_to_string and such what you'd expect. < 1252998680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a decentralised purely functional package manager. < 1252998686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, come to think of it, intlists don't need string-manipulation primitives < 1252998687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be what a hangover feels like. < 1252998690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except intellectual. < 1252998693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, that is a great idea < 1252998713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most versions of Prolog let you customize what the various quoting styles mean < 1252998714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice idea < 1252998718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess is, it isn't particularly standardised < 1252998731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're all doing it like that for compatibility < 1252998744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest packages direct from the source! A web of trust! Perfectly trustable rollbacks, upgrades! Great dependency handling! Automatic upgrades (with bad upgrades flagged by the web of trust, I guess)! < 1252998771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to live-run updates without upgrading < 1252998779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, run updates without installing them, live-CD style < 1252998780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, that's easy. < 1252998784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252998793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, web of trust? Hm... < 1252998799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1252998818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to add the capability-security-hacked-up-by-using-a-separate-account-for-each-program, but that'd be (a) slow for short-running command line programs and (b) a bit too hacky and revolutionary to work without a bunch of futzing. < 1252998835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit hard for someone knowing no one using the system to get into though < 1252998847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the unmodified idea on its own is almost enough to turn into zzo and make my own distribution for. < 1252998869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that's true; and I just realised that relying on it to flag good/bad updates is trying to make trustability technological, which as SSL demonstrates doesn't work. < 1252998873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speaking of strings, still; Matlab does strings as vectors of small integers. But it does use the "char" element-data-type for those vectors, and then determines whether to print as string or as vector based on that. < 1252998885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sneak a hole into Debian anyway, so it's not like it's any worse. < 1252998906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows/OS X users rarely upgrade to find a hole, at least I've never really heard of it happening to decent sotware < 1252998914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, hole = malicious program) < 1252998934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it would be quite a pain to maintain for the distro maintainer, it seems likely that for large such webs of trust the trusted upgrades may diverge, and take a long time to reach everyone < 1252998948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and there was that attempt to sneak a trojan into the kernel which was noticed < 1252998950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The distro maintainer wouldn't do packages. < 1252998952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1252998954 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252998959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be kind of, err..., bad for critical security upgrades < 1252998965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said decentralised: software from the source. If you want a patched version, get it from the patcher. < 1252998966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think: vmsplice() < 1252998973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm < 1252998980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the distro owners package stuff that the owners don't, get it from there. < 1252998991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone would still have to make some kind of package-y thing for the system < 1252998991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package search: google or something :P < 1252998996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What do you mean? < 1252999012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there'd be a package format, there just wouldn't be a single location. < 1252999026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd identify packages with a URI. < 1252999033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, but who would make the packages for, say, kernel, libc and so on? < 1252999045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't expect upstream devs to do so I assume? < 1252999052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously the distro maintainers (unless Linus suddenly starts building packages). < 1252999063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1252999071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just as you find debian/ directories in downloaded source packages, and sometimes generic linux binaries, I'd expect some upstreams to, yes. < 1252999075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it took off, that is. < 1252999085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's no point fighting to get into a non-existent repository if you can just put up the file. < 1252999100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252999111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would this be a binary or source based distro? < 1252999145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the way to do it would be to consider a binary a cached version of (buildPkg foo), if you see what I mean. < 1252999147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, both I guess. < 1252999152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how would the web of trust updates be shared? Some sort of p2p? < 1252999164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I dropped the web of trust idea; I don't think it helps. < 1252999167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But via HTTP or whatever, obviously. < 1252999176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, from a central location? :/ < 1252999180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1252999196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, signing is useful for *installing* packages. < 1252999199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upgrading < 1252999204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to authenticate it's a certain person, but < 1252999215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to authenticate that the updates you get come from the same person as the first version you installed < 1252999217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and nothing more) < 1252999229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah good, so everyone would have to poke holes in their firewalls, and the whole thing would be a pain for mobile users? < 1252999231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way to sneak a bad upgrade in, you'd need their GPG key + password < 1252999242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobile here = not same location all the time < 1252999247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than "cell phone") < 1252999249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firstly, there are certain things known as hosting services. Secondly, shut the fuck up, I dropped the idea. < 1252999261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web of trust could be done in a similar way to PGP key servers. < 1252999268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not useful, so I dropped it. < 1252999269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that makes sense < 1252999278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is distributed about it? < 1252999286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klgjsdfklgsdfjklgseior6gjusw90000hjgns what? < 1252999289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what < 1252999292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package manager < 1252999300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because there is no package repository... < 1252999303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252999316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't pull from peers any longer < 1252999317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252999337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the web of trust could be useful maybe, but only as a guideline. < 1252999351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, next to a person's name, a smiley face :) if they're considered trustable by people you trust, etc. < 1252999356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, that'll fail because people are lazy. < 1252999366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I wouldn't bother marking people. < 1252999409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just considering that if you needs to connect to peers it would be hard to use for people like ais and me who are university are behind NAT with their laptops. And a lot of people don't run their systems 24h. < 1252999416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................................. < 1252999423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with central servers it would work better < 1252999427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you ignore me when I say I dropped the web of trust idea? Are you trying to be annoying? < 1252999431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no central servers in my design either. < 1252999436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hosting < 1252999458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you've entirely mixed up web of trust vs package sites. < 1252999468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped the web of trust crap. Okay? < 1252999468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just explaining my reasoning against it. I wasn't bugging you about it. < 1252999483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine, you were just talking to me so I assumed so, quite obviously... < 1252999491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1252999501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how expensive creating a user/group is on linux? < 1252999517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very, I don't think < 1252999527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although /etc/passwd probably uses a linear search by default < 1252999528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm aren't there a limited number of UIDs/GIDs? < 1252999535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, 65535 < 1252999545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think it does yes, since there is no requirement that it is ordered. < 1252999558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can sort it using pwck -s < 1252999562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or grpck -s) < 1252999563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are library functions for reading /etc/passwd < 1252999571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1252999573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How many seconds to create a functional user/group in C code? < 1252999573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're supposed to use those rather than reading the file < 1252999581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for all I know, they keep a hashed btree of the things in memory < 1252999586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can bump that up to 2^32 or so nowadays; you can for pids. < 1252999591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well under 1, I expect < 1252999594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could make the users one-time, but that's less ... dynamic. < 1252999598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0.0x? 0.00x? < 1252999615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C.f. Documentation/highuid.txt in your kernel docs. < 1252999615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean creating on the fly like Gregor did in EgoBot? < 1252999620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1252999623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For each process. < 1252999624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know < 1252999638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not expensive iirc, it is just changing uid to some high reserved number < 1252999639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could benchmark and find out, I suppose < 1252999654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I can't, I don't have X11 working on Arch < 1252999662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need X11? < 1252999670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn you beat me to it < 1252999687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, need to shower, bbiab < 1252999719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To have an environment comfortable enough to be worth rebooting into? < 1252999743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't realise you needed a reboot < 1252999749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I kinda want a decent web browser and some hawt terminal multiplexing action. < 1252999750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you still had infinity VMs lying around < 1252999764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not going to give an accurate benchmark result... < 1252999774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be close, surely? < 1252999776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 didn't work in the VM either, heh. < 1252999780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you run on CPU time inside the simulation < 1252999791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I actually don't have one, so. < 1252999793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, virtualisation < 1252999836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there isn't a non-X graphical server that can speak the X protocol. < 1252999840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, one that doesn't suck. < 1252999883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any non-dead forks of X with any momentum? < 1252999893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean fork. < 1252999896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, Xorg. < 1252999905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forked from XFree86, which is probably a fork itself. < 1252999914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, more than one < 1252999931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we do have X-compatible experimental graphical servers, but come on. We should have started working on this shit in, like, the late 90s. < 1252999988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Its native protocol should just be a slightly cleaned up, perhaps faster and non-networked (use X11) version of the X protocol; anything too different makes X software feel like emulated legacy software, which would defeat the point.) < 1253000024 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253000095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's X11.app, which is maybe non-dead, but I guess you can't really count that. < 1253000107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Xquartz < 1253000143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One disadvantage of this system is that the canonical names of things are gonna be like /pkg/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls, and perhaps even more verbose due to "coreutils" being a name whereas we work with URIs. < 1253000153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about how to make the real paths more lean. < 1253000222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFast seems a bit dead; no SVN changes since 2008-08. < 1253000260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew, built-in WM. < 1253000394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's that WeirdX Java server thing, from the Jsch people -- at http://www.jcraft.com/weirdx/ -- but I'm not very certain that's alive either. < 1253000674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1253000707 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253000793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it'd actually be more like /home/ehird/.pkg/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls, which is even worse. < 1253001115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/org/gnu/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls maybe < 1253001135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that point I'd just use the actual URI - < 1253001145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, just in directory structure form < 1253001171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls < 1253001179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually, probably more like < 1253001182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org? < 1253001186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253001187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/ < 1253001192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd actually be: < 1253001207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come off it GNU, that's just a ridiculous URL < 1253001210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/coreutils-7.6-packagemanagernamething/bin/ls < 1253001215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's very common < 1253001221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp., as a subdomain, means "download repository" < 1253001231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be both common /and/ ridiculous, IMO < 1253001236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1253001239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like misHungarian notation < 1253001246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, /home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/coreutils-7.6-packagemanagernamething/bin/ls of course assumes that GNU would make their own packages, which I doubt. < 1253001287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more likely to be /home/ehird/.pkg/http/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls < 1253001303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, maek that < 1253001304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make < 1253001311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more likely to be /home/ehird/.pkg/http/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.xyz/bin/ls < 1253001316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where .xyz is the file extension < 1253001333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, the URL for the package description file would be http://packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.xyz. < 1253001353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The files themselves would likely be in http:/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.tar.bz2 or something, but that doesn't matter. < 1253001357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The files themselves would likely be in http://packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.tar.bz2 or something, but that doesn't matter. < 1253001360 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253001369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can ie be made to lie it's ff < 1253001376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that just a random thought < 1253001377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1253001382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE allows extensions, after all < 1253001383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have you found the weirdest website ever < 1253001393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how much control they have over the browser's behaviour < 1253001400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: say the website renders fine in IE8 and Firefox < 1253001407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has hacks for IE6 that actually make it look worse in IE8 < 1253001409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has IE8 doesn't he < 1253001414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't checking the browser version number < 1253001419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm < 1253001421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems plausible to me < 1253001421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mixed up your numbers < 1253001425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253001425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1253001428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1253001430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just worded it badly < 1253001431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the perfect browser apart from the fact every fucking unix retard just puts a YOU SHOULD USE FF I LIKE IT BETTAH <3 message on their page < 1253001434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, would render fine without the hacks < 1253001445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most firefox advocates aren't unix users < 1253001457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, i was going to help you before you got all vitrolically hateful at me and my kin <3 < 1253001469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not even the case that all unix users advocate firefox < 1253001476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sorry, but it's rather annoying to get that message every day. < 1253001479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it for the extensions, but I think that, say, Epiphany has a better design < 1253001483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it needs a bit of polish < 1253001484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to be fair, he said fucking unix retards < 1253001495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use it for the articles. < 1253001503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fucking unix retards" isn't all that hateful :P < 1253001509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps all mentally handicapped unix users currently having sexual intercourse do put such messages on their page < 1253001531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes let's say that's what i meant. < 1253001534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you could just download a better browser. < 1253001556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could try opera < 1253001563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1253001563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, Opera's fine. < 1253001581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Explorer_extensions < 1253001586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fights instinct to slap AfD tag on it < 1253001594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1253001599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253001600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253001600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: look at it < 1253001605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a list of third-party toolbars < 1253001605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253001609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1253001610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the Operaans somehow project a much more evangelical view of themselves. < 1253001620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, that's why I was amused :) < 1253001625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't really feel like switching browsers just because some people think ie sucks < 1253001626 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do? < 1253001628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all people except me < 1253001629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all Opera users want to tell you about how they love Opera < 1253001630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253001630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there gives the article a reason for existence, and I suspect it's NPOV < 1253001632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1253001633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1253001636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the browsers are raelly much worse < 1253001638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1253001640 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I really looooooooove opera < 1253001642 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to it < 1253001643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW < 1253001648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's basically a page for people to spam on < 1253001648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: except, one problem < 1253001651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera is fucking shit < 1253001661 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I like it, but I'm fine if others don't < 1253001664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... opera comes up with all the great UI innovations < 1253001666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it was good, it's not good enough to justify using non-free software with a rendering engine that nothing else uses < 1253001667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1253001673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then other browsers steal them and do them better < 1253001674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but opera's UI is pretty bad < 1253001680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it's a paradox < 1253001680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just add everything and everyone else cherry-picks the good parts < 1253001693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera is the Slash'EM of browsers? < 1253001740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how opera's toolbar has the useless rewind/fast forward buttons, it's such a perfect example of its creeping featuritis (opera users: I know you use it. I know you use every feature. You do this so you can defend it. :P) < 1253001766 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the fast-forward feature, but I've removed the button for it < 1253001778 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you saw my UI a while ago, didn't you? < 1253001785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I've forgotten. < 1253001792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast-forward? < 1253001803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like, guesses which page you plan to go to next and takes you there < 1253001804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "keep pressing forwards until the domain changes" < 1253001809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewind: the reverse < 1253001814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1253001815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's useless < 1253001820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely useless < 1253001822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my version better < 1253001824 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fast-forward usually works well < 1253001834 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For getting to the next page of stuff < 1253001840 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as webcomics < 1253001849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1253001855 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me < 1253001858 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't develop it < 1253001859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works if you have pages in the forward history... < 1253001862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to? < 1253001864 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No* < 1253001870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they changed it < 1253001874 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've read, it looks for links matching certain patterns < 1253001883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it /does/ do what I said < 1253001904 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, only if you don't have anything more forwardy in the history < 1253001908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do these people keep sending me forms as Word documents with rows of dots to write on? < 1253001913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htf am I supposed to reply to that? < 1253001920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been replacing the dots with my answer, and underlining it < 1253001928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look sort-of like I was writing on the line < 1253001929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: print out < 1253001937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how could I email it back? < 1253001952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the time I could find a scanner, I could physically go to them and talk to them face to face < 1253001954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "intelligent 'next whatever in sequence'" thing certainly isn't new now; there was babble about it when it was introduced. < 1253001957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there's a wooden table here < 1253001961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I could find a camera < 1253002013 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it's new, ehird said it's not useful < 1253002030 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, he found it unuseful < 1253002032 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1253002048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it never even did anything other than what seemed to be the domain thing, yep < 1253002059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the framebuffer X server? < 1253002075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that if they changed from "only does domain-jumping for history-browsing" (which really sounds useless to me) to "also selects the 'next' link", they didn't do it especially recently. < 1253002077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plz paste context next time. and it'll be slow. < 1253002098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a couple of firefox extensions that try to do the same thing, haven't tried them out. < 1253002130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about arch linux < 1253002133 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I agree on that, I can't remember fast-forward doing anything else < 1253002173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about it? < 1253002199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said you couldn't get X working under it? < 1253002210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suggesting that you try the framebuffer X server < 1253002215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253002218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd prefer to fix actual x. < 1253002225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1253002260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how slow XDirectFB would be; possibly not completely useless (based on the hype, again). fbdev + vesafb is not really a winning combination, though. < 1253002276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "fbdev" refers to the X.org fbdev driver.) < 1253002297 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253002327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fbdev? < 1253002329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1253002342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X complains it can't find that at startup, but goes on anyway. Installing it changes nothing apart from removing that. < 1253002351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBA to fuck around with making an xorg.conf < 1253002365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you make hal and dbus start then? < 1253002375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hal, yes. doesn't hal start dbus? < 1253002376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe arch changed to devicekit thingy < 1253002377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1253002384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't remember < 1253002387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would assume so < 1253002390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think dbus was in the list too < 1253002401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253002408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither radeonhd nor ati work < 1253002412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba to try aur fglrx < 1253002439 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1253002439 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI and Linux < 1253002459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI have Linux binary drivers packaged with the graphics card nowadays, on CDs < 1253002466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fglrx. < 1253002468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course nearly useless in most scenarios where you'd want them < 1253002472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Works fine on Ubuntu, Debian, ... < 1253002481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: The fault lies squarely with Arch. < 1253002483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's quite some ... < 1253002488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how similar Ubuntu and Debian are < 1253002490 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running Kubuntu, and I've sure had some crashes here and there < 1253002491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cba to think of more < 1253002501 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1253002503 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X crashes < 1253002635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1253002654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the vesa driver? < 1253002682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked first time i think. but wrong resolution. also i want the proper drivers. also keyboard and mouse didn't work then < 1253002713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, keyboard and mouse would be different drivers. Did you get those to work under anything else? < 1253002718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other driver I mean) < 1253002741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0010]? < 1253002762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253002771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1253002774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253002775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0010]I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what you said here < 1253002781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say that < 1253002782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was a box < 1253002796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:01 I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog < 1253002797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how this thing shows "not in font" < 1253002807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes the [0010] is there in your paste too < 1253002811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some control code there < 1253002813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it in od < 1253002814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1253002818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a hex editor < 1253002824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba < 1253002835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it was there. :P < 1253003216 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253003324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in TAEB what is a "TME chain"? < 1253003337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set of TMEs that point to each other until they reach the root TME < 1253003344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what is a TME then < 1253003346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it extracts routes from the routing map < 1253003349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253003353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a TME is a Tactical Map Entry < 1253003355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253003356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253003358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it represents one movement < 1253003368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a particular location, at a particular time < 1253003373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I found that, just didn't saw it mentioned with TME in the same place < 1253003382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the name* < 1253003550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does TAEB track info about currently out of sight monsters? Like, it just went up stairs and below there is a black dragon next to the stairs, it will calculate with that if it decides to go down again? < 1253003559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1253003564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, even on same level, in a throne room or such < 1253003566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a major deficiency in the framework as-is < 1253003583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since those aren't likely to move around if they are sleeping < 1253003587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same for zoo for example) < 1253003609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it has pre-made maps for fixed levels that don't change? Such as valley of dead, the castle and such < 1253003620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1253003623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are Sokoban spoilers < 1253003647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for the mines it would be useful too, spotting what type of mines end based on layout around the stairs and such < 1253003658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1253003661 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253003668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a high priority right now; submit framework patches if you're interested < 1253003676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's perl :( < 1253003816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253003821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # We hates nymphs <-- who doesn't? < 1253003832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does TAEB do if it finds a scroll of genocide? < 1253003838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it isn't cursed that is < 1253003839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, it's a framework < 1253003845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TAEB::AI::Planar doesn't mess with scrolls yet < 1253003846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what does Planar do then < 1253003848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253003902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have been thinking about that myself, one one hand it is better to save it, until you run into a bad monster (since you can't know which one you will run into first), on the other hand, messages like "one of your scrolls of genocide catch fire" really sucks < 1253003922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?oGeno isn't amazingly useful < 1253003936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you're approaching the problem of NetHack AIs from the wrong direction entirely < 1253003948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you need the simple stuff working before you mess with specific items < 1253003951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure is when you run into a master lich, or master mind flayer < 1253003960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well of course < 1253003962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you burn an Elbereth < 1253003974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even dust one, if you have enough notice < 1253003995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, dust ones get messed out though easily < 1253004003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write more than once < 1253004010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253004017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots have no trouble stacking up 30 Elbereths on a square, they don't run out of patience < 1253004025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok < 1253004031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it knows about the E word? < 1253004051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1253004054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, does write in the dust work on ice? < 1253004056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for some purposes, not for others < 1253004060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you write in the frost < 1253004065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253004081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get frost on ice usually, snow maybe, but not frost < 1253004290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl going to uni < 1253004631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i win because i already am at uni < 1253004702 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253004711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:uni == en:dream, the abbreviation, especially uncapitalized, always makes me smile. < 1253004756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time i see it i dance a little < 1253004798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should back up the IMAP folders for the school account before some overzealous administrator goes and wipes them out, even though I'm still employed there and all. < 1253004847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :employ the convoy < 1253004900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd work on that package manager, but I'd have to make packages < 1253004904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd be tedious < 1253004960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demuxer info Name changed to Summertime18%"; stared at that for a bit thinking "funny name", but the 18% was just leftovers from I guess mplayer's cache-fill-percentage or something. < 1253005561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253006284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253006542 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1253006793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.garfieldasgarfield.com/ < 1253007479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kecy.roumen.cz/roumingShow.php?file=cat_found.jpg < 1253007829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1253007852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's not even the first i've seen of that type, so that one is probably a copycat made just to photo it < 1253007858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i saw was black and white < 1253007871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have seen many such as well. < 1253007879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also seen your link two months ago. < 1253007932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you :P < 1253009173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/MiffTheFox/aspnet.png < 1253009418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://healthbase.netbase.com/#Nazis&Pros < 1253009943 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253011308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give up getting Arch to work, except the alternative is Debian and I want something that isn't 80% modified code... < 1253011318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I haven't done anything but whine, but. < 1253011320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :D < 1253011792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if it is defined which sort of buffering will be used by something just fopen()ed? < 1253011806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1253011809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember where < 1253011811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in C99 < 1253011816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, probably POSIX < 1253011822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't find it in man page at least < 1253011844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When opened, a stream is fully buffered if and only if it can be deter‐ < 1253011845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mined not to refer to an interactive device." < 1253011855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- FOPEN(3P) < 1253011923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253011932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what package provides 3p on ubuntu? < 1253011959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at ais523  < 1253011970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why arch has a bunch of dependencies on packages it doesn't need... seems to want to cruft up a system :) < 1253011972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I don't have it < 1253012086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpages-posix-dev. < 1253012102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's where fopen.3posix.gz is. < 1253012179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah thanks < 1253012197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the arcane apt-foo command to find that? < 1253012214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dpkg that tells you where something is < 1253012216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not apt < 1253012252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used packages.ubuntu.com; I actually doubt there's a list of files available locally for not-installed packages. < 1253012272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, this is an OS X system I'm using here. < 1253012281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1253012285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, the list's only for already-existing packages < 1253012292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, already-installed < 1253012317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt isn't arcane. < 1253012340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "dpkg-query -S /path/to/file" generally tells you which package was reponsible for installing a file. Doesn't help when you haven't got the file you're looking for. < 1253012349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache is to query the cached package database, apt-get is to perform changing actions on packages < 1253012356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the installed package set, anyway < 1253012392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dpkg tells you about things that are independent of repos < 1253012394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apt-cache search searches the cached package database, apt-get remove removes a package from the installed set. < 1253012418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache show shows the information of a package in the cached package database, etc < 1253012425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache: tell me about the repo; apt-get: do something that makes changes using the repo; dpkg: do something that doesn't care about the repo < 1253012433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're agreeing < 1253012441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253012467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that apt is really good for a centralised package manager, so it annoys me when people complain about it... < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cal 9 1752 < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : September 1752 < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa < 1253012493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 2 14 15 16 < 1253012493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 18 19 20 21 22 23 < 1253012494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 25 26 27 28 29 30 < 1253012500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart software. < 1253012545 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253012621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there's blood under my nail < 1253012624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it doesn't leak out < 1253012634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1253012637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psst: there's blood INSIDE you, too. < 1253012638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to test 09-1752 in Mycology's DATE tests but decided I'm not that anal < 1253012754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you another anal instead? < 1253012767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1253012849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll install Arch in VM. < 1253012855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a VM < 1253012856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh. < 1253012861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more satisfying to get it working properly. < 1253012990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i have not the patiene to go through base and remove the crap that annoys me. bleah. < 1253013886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253014350 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253014365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, X starts with radeonhd if I do "sudo X" manually and twm, xclock run. < 1253014370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm still fucks up, sigh. < 1253014447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#^4&/@% < 1253014449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hi. Console mode has oppressively large fonts. < 1253014451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wat < 1253014452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess the language < 1253014459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge < 1253014463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1253014475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom < 1253014507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that either, I'm afraid < 1253014511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#archlinux in summary: < 1253014523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As detailed description of the problem as I can think of. < 1253014525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you're not in the mood for guessing: Mathematica < 1253014530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You didn't give any info. < 1253014542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you clarify as to what sort of information I should give? < 1253014546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* crickets chirp < 1253014549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* deafening silence < 1253014561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does the % do? < 1253014567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: modulo? < 1253014569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can figure the rest of it, I think < 1253014574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I doubt it < 1253014576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previous result < 1253014580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253014580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253014582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253014591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"raise all elements of the previous result to the 4th power" < 1253014597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253014608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253014624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# = arg1, ^4 = obvs power, & postfix = lambda, /@ = map, % = prev < 1253014624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253014634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{x^4} map previous < 1253014637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253014639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253014654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like J, except without the interesting paradigm or concise code < 1253014656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it would be simpler in Underlambda < 1253014663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt < 1253014663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-D < 1253014665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is saying something < 1253014697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be "ans.^4" in Matlab, but that's rather a special case of the elementwise-exponentiation operator. < 1253014725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4^)e I think in Underlambda < 1253014739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in Haskell, rather similar but with a different notation < 1253014761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, predictably the person who whined at me has not said a peep since < 1253014765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit and run complainer < 1253014782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "hit-and-run compiler". < 1253014794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be gcc. :P < 1253014813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh god, what happened here?!" "GCC." < 1253014877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that way often. < 1253014887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's a lie, but i would if i was in the habit of developing in c < 1253014903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not into the whole masochism thing any more, you know? < 1253014976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1253014980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like you guys get to debug my system! < 1253014981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253014995 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253015008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I expect anyone to know, google certainly didn't < 1253015028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation) while doing X_OpenFont in xterm, without it popping up any window < 1253015043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, xedit immediately bus errors before doing squat. < 1253015050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no doubt there are other issues. wtf. < 1253015145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xedit? < 1253015219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the stock X text editor. < 1253015220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1253015229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot: twm works fine < 1253015243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can manage as many xclocks as i want, because that works. < 1253015259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gdb work? < 1253015265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does xterm/ < 1253015284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, read ^ < 1253015290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll try xterm in gdb < 1253015332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253015336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't read symbols from libxcb < 1253015338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file truncated < 1253015339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun???? < 1253015353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reinstalls xcb < 1253015360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1253015361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253015364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't gdb < 1253015598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose clocking the processor by hand would be too slow < 1253015603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might not have a notated debugging dump < 1253015614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite. < 1253015626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the truncated thing with xkb or something else too. i wonder what the hell it is. < 1253015736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but really, this is a popular consumer machine with relatively standard hardware once you've booted up < 1253015751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that I'm having to do this shit doesn't reflect well on arch's polish level < 1253015893 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253015933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even start to think about how i'd debug such an odd problem < 1253015954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace, see if anything weird fails < 1253016068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. X_OpenFont. < 1253016069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253016085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_OpenFont isn't a system call < 1253016210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start by reinstalling everything font-related, something might just have been corrupted < 1253016226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resulting file is so long I have no idea wher to look. < 1253016242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's looking at icon files and finding they don't exist at this point. < 1253016250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it is doing that. It is xterm. < 1253016254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep for where it prints BadAlloc and see if anything failed near that. < 1253016303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at the end. And the answer is yes, but I don't know what the hell it is because it's all buried in a sea of random crap involving \0 a lot and font names. < 1253016323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trying to read something from FD 3 and getting resource temporarily unavailable. < 1253016347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens /dev/ptmx right before that. < 1253016371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, I know what's failing, except I have no idea what the hell /dev/ptmx is or why this is happening. < 1253016398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudoterminals. < 1253016405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's trying to write something about fonts to a pseudoterminal and failing. < 1253016410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, read. < 1253016411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1253016415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a clue. < 1253016441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it ... writevs... to it with something about the fonts and... < 1253016451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I really don't know. This is hopeless. I'll try xedit. < 1253016475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFAULT bad address on the exec() line that starts up xedit. < 1253016482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stillborn < 1253016484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253016565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling is bringing up absolutely nothing. < 1253016632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:riZzgIDtKTIJ:forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511364-start-0.html+x_openfont+badalloc&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk quite quickly < 1253016644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it just says that he rebuilt everything and then it worked. < 1253016682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows: Turn it off and on again. < 1253016691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo: Rebuild world again. < 1253016709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I can't copy-paste on the console :-( < 1253016713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a tinyurl? < 1253016816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyurl.com/rebnx4 < 1253016831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1253016894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to purge pacman of downloaded files for a group? < 1253016898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would like it to download X again... < 1253016905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few weeks ago we were in a bus at the terminal station; time came for the bus to leave, it moved a dozen centimetres and prompty hung up. < 1253016907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the bus driver shouted to passengers that it's refusing to switch gears, and he's going to try turning it off and on again; he did that, and after the bus was rebooted it again worked just fine. < 1253016935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be one aspect of that "ubiquitous computing" thing, bringing the reboot-troubleshooting to the real world too. < 1253016945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253017063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Scc cleans the whole cache < 1253017099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably fruitless; I can remove the top-level X packages but not easily their dependencies. < 1253017102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Syy X might force a redownload, not sure < 1253017135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of every single relevant dependency? I didn't know they were putting strong AI in package managers these days. < 1253017152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err wut? < 1253017225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xorg-foo depends on libxbutt depends on libxblah which contains the problem. < 1253017233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -R xorg doesn't remove libxblah, so it stays. < 1253017255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss xorg does. < 1253017260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; reinstalled the top-level xorg packages, no damn change. < 1253017273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Neato. < 1253017377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package managers have an Rss feed nowadays? < 1253017432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WORKS < 1253017433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1253017459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you had some wrong-bittiness stuff somewhere or something. < 1253017462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay, rebooting < 1253017471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253017598 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253017605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello from irssi from xterm from twm from black background < 1253017617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from X11 from startx from bash from login < 1253017629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253017638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your mom. Wait, that's just a boring true statement. < 1253017657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my mom wrote login. < 1253017674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your grandma wrote grub < 1253017675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253017680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253017689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My great grandmother is Linus Torvalds. < 1253017710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess I should install yaourt. < 1253017722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of any good linux webkit browsers < 1253017723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253017746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could try that new-fangled uzbl thing all the Arch kids are raving about. < 1253017775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but look, it's in AUR. So I need to install yaourt. < 1253017786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That program with the annoying policy of calling sudo for you. < 1253017814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt? < 1253017827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It builds packages from AUR for you, and then installs them with pacman. < 1253017836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253017839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other AUR-builders, I think. < 1253017841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calls sudo for you so that you don't build packages at root. < 1253017856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, an administrative command without sudo in front feels wrong; can't it drop privileges for that part? < 1253017858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fakeroot? < 1253017860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh? < 1253017884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_Helpers < 1253017943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a worrying feeling that 90% of those are look-I-wrote-a-short-unworking-script-it's-officially-a-project-now things. < 1253017995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default xterm font is so horribly small. < 1253018081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I can't use pacman-color because it requires a pacman 0.1 versions older. < 1253018082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun. < 1253018112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use yaourt + powerpill < 1253018142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. < 1253018191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohkayy, uzbl isn't in AUR either, so yaourt tells me in unreadable yellow-on-white. < 1253018200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just install, uh, what are you hip kids using? < 1253018253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Arora. Arora's good, isn't it? Supposed to be, at least. < 1253018298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Powerpill does sure spew a lot about how it's making your download ohso-fast. < 1253018301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh-so < 1253018318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's noticeable for me since my local mirror can't handle my bandwidth. < 1253018319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :963kiB/s. That's the highest my connection's ever reached. < 1253018334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :-D < 1253018349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will pummel you with my bandwidth-shaped residential connection, puny server!" < 1253018378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait wait WAIT is that qt 3? < 1253018383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is qt 3 that is so not cool man. < 1253018385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT. COOL. < 1253018396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's 4. < 1253018398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, AnMaster's a KDE 3 fan, isn't he? < 1253018399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks like 3 by default. < 1253018403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1253018412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and KDE and Qt version numbers match IIRC < 1253018415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks acceptable, anyway. < 1253018430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That font is actually, I feel bad saying this, but I'll be honest, that font looks damn good unantialiased. < 1253018439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's bitmap helvetica or whatever. < 1253018487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Arora is fast and stuff. < 1253018495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The controls are a bit ugly. < 1253018513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some links aren't underlined. < 1253018613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this no-antialiasing-until-selecting bug on some pages were fixed this would bef ine. < 1253018619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be fine < 1253018656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's that thing to remove and all unused dependencies btw? < 1253018660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you said before < 1253018661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt -Qdt < 1253018667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for one package < 1253018668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay < 1253018687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I said that before since I'm not sure how to do that :-P < 1253018696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for xorg < 1253018712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss removes xorg and all of its dependencies, including explicitly installed ones < 1253018723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253018724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss xorg* < 1253018732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries midori < 1253018739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, we seem to have a new spambot < 1253018747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just spamming "doors.txt;10;15" < 1253018749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if powerpill has a ... uh ... thingy < 1253018753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with nonsense edit summaries < 1253018753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet option < 1253018753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rs would remove the unneeded ones only, I think < 1253018772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to install urxvt and set the background black. < 1253018776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much stuff assumes it's black.. < 1253018779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*black. < 1253018781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a bigger font. < 1253018789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, um, soemthing that isn't twm. Would be nice. < 1253018800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm > * < 1253018810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by > you mean <. < 1253018819 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm + xedit is all you need in an X system < 1253018828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wtf is it with powerpill going to a crawl every now and then? < 1253018835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been from 0B to 4kiB recently. < 1253018835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xeyes to know where your pointer is < 1253018836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now. < 1253018871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tends to slow down at the end when it's only downloading from one mirror or so < 1253018878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that mirror is a slow one. < 1253018892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god Raleigh < 1253018894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes my EYES < 1253018900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's what I think it is. < 1253018955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you can't customize Midori's toolbar. < 1253018962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't really have expected more of a GTK app :-P < 1253018999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the interface font is irritatingly just big enough to be ugly. < 1253019000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho hum. < 1253019032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is just way too ugly, I'm installing that whateveritis that makes gtk stuf fuse the qt theme. < 1253019067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK fuses with the Qt theme creating QtK < 1253019093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Midori has an Opera-style speed dial. < 1253019103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a whole bunch of useless preferences; is this meant to be simple? < 1253019142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Qt won't apply QGtkStyle correctly if GTK is using the GTK-QT-Engine." < 1253019152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This clearly ignores the large segment of users who would like all interface elements to be fractal. < 1253019176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pacman -S lynx < 1253019178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, gtk-qt-engine pulled in both gnome and kde stuff < 1253019201 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253019246 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1253019275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How does powerpill get speeds >900kiB/s on my connection which never gets them < 1253019279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253019280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's astounding. < 1253019301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It downloads from multiple servers which all upload at >900KiB/s < 1253019319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kiB, you anti-SI freak. < 1253019333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is kilo, Ki is kibi, there is no ki. < 1253019341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gtk-qt-engine apps are uglier than Raleigh. < 1253019343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite an achievement. < 1253019356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION obliterates that and midori, asks you for the remove-unused thing < 1253019373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, i is a suffix on prefixes that changes them from binary to decimal. < 1253019382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kis = 1024 seconds. kiB = 1024 bytes. < 1253019383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1253019402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was that removey thing? < 1253019408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? And since when is k binary? < 1253019428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k isn't binary; that's why you suffix it with i. < 1253019429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the i that's binary < 1253019430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, IEC says the prefix for kibi is "Ki", I'd trust them over an ehird any day of the week. < 1253019435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = 1000. ki = 1024. < 1253019438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My method is more consistent. < 1253019448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "changes them from binary to decimal" < 1253019451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a simple modification of SI: the suffix i after a prefix makes it binary. < 1253019454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your more consistent, more logical method is also more nonstandard. < 1253019456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, flip that. < 1253019472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But SI is mostly consistent and logical, so let's go with my version, that keeps within its spirit. < 1253019580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether he should ever ever ever remove history. < 1253019585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's history, after all! < 1253019612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use the default search engine as fallback when the URL given by the user is invalid" < 1253019616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1253019634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo < 1253019659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why noooo < 1253019678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh wtf Arora, Arial 16 as the default font? Courier New 16 as the fixed width? < 1253019699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if the bitmap Helvetica sizes >9 were as pretty. < 1253019705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though 12 is pretty decent. < 1253019711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically it means I've typoed a bookmark-keyword and a google search for "ge foobar" when I tried to do a google image search for "foobar" isn't that helpful < 1253019723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have bookmark keywods. < 1253019727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keywords < 1253019758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured. < 1253019800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh I forgot about that arora bug < 1253019914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, it's really fucking annoing the missing underlines < 1253020023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: so does powerpill really download from 40-odd servers at once? < 1253020037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about 40-odd, but more than one certainly < 1253020097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I wrote an .Xresources file for black background, white foreground and no scrollbar in URxvt, merged it, and ran urxvt without looking up a single thing. < 1253020110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that X resources aren't exceedingly crappy as an interface. < 1253020167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually disappointed in myeslf for liking a Qt interface with the default, KDE 3-style widgets and unantialiased bitmap fonts :-P < 1253020174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*myself < 1253020203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your disappointment is really fruuging up your spelling skills. < 1253020228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's this keyboard. < 1253020237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253020252 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253020257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now with 100% more urxvt! < 1253020373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run stuff in screen so you don't have to restart it all < 1253020395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1253020400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extreme apathy dictates < 1253020421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use cryopid and see how that works out < 1253020591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck, xfontsel has the most confusing UI ever < 1253020731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's funny? < 1253020740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dark blue that ls uses by default is unreadable on black terminals. < 1253020743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is unreadable on white terminals. < 1253020747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not fucking using a gray terminal. < 1253020770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just twiddle in some better RGB values for the colors. < 1253020789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laze! < 1253020789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure xfontsel is that much more confusing than those X font descriptor strings inherently. < 1253020814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: urxvt.color12: #a0a0ff < 1253020818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why he can't set the urxvt font in .Xres-- would help to merge, wouldn't it. < 1253020849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it in .Xdefaults < 1253020857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better? < 1253020861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1253020864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.background: black < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.foreground: white < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.scrollBar: none < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.font: -misc-fixed-*-*-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-*-*-* < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.color12: #A0A0FF < 1253020879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ yummy < 1253020886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the color12 line < 1253020952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253020977 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253021176 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253021179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1253021201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghurt < 1253021276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, I can't find a way to instruct arora that middle click should open a new window < 1253021282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still has that underline problem... < 1253021289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try chromium, see what it's like on linux these days < 1253021498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ding ~]$ chromium-browser < 1253021499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11573:11573:3983975350:FATAL:/b/slave/chromium-rel-linux-64/build/src/app/gfx/font_skia.cc(90)] Check failed: tf. Could not find font: Helvetica < 1253021502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/chromium-browser: line 4: 11573 Trace/breakpoint trap ./chrome --enable-greasemonkey --enable-user-scripts "$@" < 1253021505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for that. < 1253021583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Man is much better than us at figuring this out < 1253021583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset MANPATH < 1253021587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that supposed to mean? < 1253021594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure can't find the pages in /usr/local/man < 1253021706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /etc/man.conf < 1253021716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a bloated piece of crap! < 1253021736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man_db.conf nowadays < 1253021756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should handle it if i can get shit in $PATH. < 1253021806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting flickering artifacts on my screen. I hope that isn't radeonhd. < 1253021966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably is. < 1253022932 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253023002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253023527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253025144 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97.118.115.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253026311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253026361 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@91.153.117.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253027238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253027288 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253028219 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-95.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253028608 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253029091 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253029689 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253030147 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-135-95.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253030147 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253030633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253030981 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253031010 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253031900 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe99f800-14.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032222 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032263 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone online? < 1253032335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually < 1253032337 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253032405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253032413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253032420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how odd < 1253032515 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-12-15.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032749 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe99f800-14.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253033632 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253033672 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253033736 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1253033741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that some new guy joined < 1253034181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253039333 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253039355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253039367 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253039679 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253040914 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253040971 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253041093 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253041901 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253041916 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253042395 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253042951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253044456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253044595 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253044871 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253044914 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253045427 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253046460 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253048404 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-9-237.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253049055 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253049126 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253049635 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051111 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253051430 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051640 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253053551 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253053592 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253054097 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253054238 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sulks at C# not having typedef >:| < 1253054986 0 :Elench!n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253056794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253056858 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253056997 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253058535 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-31-129.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253059196 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)