00:00:26 -!- jix has joined.
00:00:35 <oerjan> oh right you need to recheck the _whole_ string at each step unless being clever...
00:01:23 <Ilari> And the program uses the generic algorithm (at least the first version used). Its tractable, but...
00:01:53 <oerjan> hm wait i'm thinking somehow backwards at this, it's _mismatches_ one should find not matches
00:01:54 <Ilari> The latter versions only store the entries that match. This speeds up the matching a lot.
00:03:08 <Ilari> IIRC, the interpretter did the matching tentatively against all four, and then picked one of them and added it to main tables.
00:07:51 <oerjan> i recall reading that at least the earley parser gets more efficient if the grammar has less ambiguity, being O(n) if it's actually LR(1) for example
00:08:36 <Ilari> It keeps table of all subsequences of committed characters that match a production.
00:08:48 -!- jix has quit ("leaving").
00:09:13 <oerjan> well, only those that can possibly fit at that point (for earley)
00:12:14 <oerjan> it wasn't the simplest to implement though iirc (never really tried myself)
00:13:32 <Ilari> The reference implementation uses CYK algorithm.
00:15:09 <Ilari> But the symbol table is treated as sparse (big memory savings and big speedup).
00:18:51 <oerjan> however CYK requires you to know the whole string in advance, doesn't it, at least in the version the wikipedia pseudocode shows
00:19:26 <oerjan> so you cannot cache information that is still relevant when adding the next character
00:19:27 <Ilari> It matches against all four candidates in each step (and then commits one of the characters).
00:19:49 <oerjan> i suppose you could adjust it to do it though
00:20:11 <Ilari> One subsequence has gotten fixed, the symbols matching it stay fixed.
00:20:19 <Ilari> *once
00:20:29 <oerjan> hm right
00:22:17 <Sgeo> http://www.moock.org/ gotta love the decorative design
00:22:20 <Sgeo> Oh wait, it's horrible
00:22:42 <Sgeo> Could have, you know, ROTATED the thing at least so it's readable
00:26:40 -!- jix has joined.
01:02:39 -!- Patashu has joined.
01:22:49 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:31:46 <Gregor> http://lonelydino.com/?id=39 Hahahilarity!
01:41:15 -!- coppro has joined.
01:58:02 <Sgeo> Did you know? The https means your personal information is blocked! It's true, I read it in a newspaper clipping that was on the wall of my college's Computer Information Systems building!
01:58:29 <coppro> NEAT
02:01:37 <Sgeo> Quote from my book on management:
02:02:25 <Sgeo> "Cellular phone companies are hustling to find ways to compete with iPhone's amazing touch screen and its ability to watch YouTube through a WiFi network. This has scared broadband companies who wonder if iPhone will make them irrelevant one day soon."
02:16:45 -!- jix has quit ("leaving").
02:49:17 -!- amca has joined.
03:01:11 -!- amca_ has joined.
03:08:21 -!- amca has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
03:09:58 -!- amca_ has changed nick to amca.
03:22:16 -!- augur has joined.
03:30:28 -!- amca has quit (Connection timed out).
03:30:57 -!- amca has joined.
03:35:44 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:48:47 -!- amca has quit (No route to host).
03:49:12 -!- amca has joined.
03:54:28 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell").
04:19:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:19:31 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:19:46 <Sgeo> ..what just happened?
04:19:58 <Sgeo> Was there a netsplit?
04:21:00 <oerjan> not that i noticed
04:21:23 <oerjan> 05:19 = Sgeo [n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:31:05 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:57:46 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:30:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
06:38:14 -!- impomatic has quit ("mov.i #1,1").
06:52:41 -!- FireFly has joined.
07:07:07 -!- Asztal has joined.
07:47:30 -!- adam_d has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:03:45 -!- kar8nga has joined.
08:23:54 -!- adam_d has quit ("Leaving").
08:40:45 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
08:44:22 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:07:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:05:57 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
12:11:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:02:35 -!- jix has joined.
13:12:56 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
13:37:55 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:38:22 <AnMaster> I think I may have the flu. :(
13:44:03 <fizzie> Nowadays you never know if it's the flu or THE flu.
13:44:27 <AnMaster> fizzie, well, I don't know if it is just a bad cold or the flu. 38.5 in temperature
13:44:38 <AnMaster> err that was a Swedishism I think
13:45:05 <AnMaster> (wrong preposition in English)
13:46:46 <fizzie> I did 38.4 degrees or so last weekend, but it's mostly gone now. One of the other people working in this room didn't come to work today, though, so maybe I just passed it on.
14:01:53 <AnMaster> haha at iwc today
14:01:55 <AnMaster> really great
15:01:53 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 .").
15:08:28 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:12:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:14:01 <AnMaster> I just noticed there is a rather hard to notice sticker on the base of my monitor, that ways "works with windows vista"... a bit strange since it is a TFT with only VGA connection. How could it *not* work?
15:15:07 <Deewiant> It's for people who don't know that it obviously works, sticker or no.
15:15:17 <AnMaster> mhm
15:25:08 <ais523> it presumably works with Linux too
15:25:30 <ais523> hmm... but surely, what matters is the video card in the computer it's linking to, not the OS?
15:29:29 <AnMaster> how can you tell the difference between a normal cold and the flu
15:30:14 <AnMaster> ais523, VGA is a standard. So as long as you have that or a DVI->VGA converter...
15:30:30 <ais523> IIRC flu leaves you more or less immobile and unwilling to do anything, whereas you can live through a cold
15:30:31 <AnMaster> not sure about displayport, hdmi and so on
15:30:41 <ais523> AnMaster: I'm thinking of computers so old that they don't have VGA ports
15:30:47 <AnMaster> ais523, hm, what about in the early stages
15:30:50 <ais523> like the BBC Micro I used to have
15:31:03 <ais523> which had just a TV-encoded output
15:31:16 <AnMaster> ais523, I think those people who know about them nowdays will know what the sticker really means :P
15:31:54 * ais523 imagines trying to run Vista on a BBC Micro B
15:31:56 <ais523> it wouldn't work at all
15:32:00 <AnMaster> ais523, plus I doubt the sticker will be false, since I doubt that system could run vista
15:32:04 <AnMaster> even in a emulator
15:32:22 <ais523> for one thing, it wouldn't have any available screen resolutions that Vista would be able to comprehend
15:32:47 <ais523> if you wanted to go as high as 16 colours, the screen res was something awful like 160x120
15:32:57 <ais523> although you could get a better screen res by reducing the colour depth
15:33:08 <AnMaster> ais523, was it below 640x480?
15:33:13 <ais523> easily
15:33:17 <AnMaster> ouch
15:33:35 <AnMaster> ais523, what is the resolution during boot of modern PCs?
15:33:40 <AnMaster> something like that iirc?
15:33:50 <ais523> 640x480's easily enough for text
15:33:54 <ais523> if you don't care about the font
15:34:11 <AnMaster> ais523, well yes, but I meant, isn't that what is used during bios and such even on modern PCs?
15:34:17 <AnMaster> or is it some even lower res?
15:34:32 <Deewiant> I think it is 640x480 but I'm not sure
15:34:53 <ais523> Wikipedia says 640x256 was the best resolution it could get
15:35:23 <AnMaster> ais523, that would be rather... widescreen?
15:35:46 <ais523> AnMaster: it was 640x256 for a 2-colour display (black and one other)
15:35:56 <AnMaster> ais523, "the other one"?
15:35:56 <ais523> you could double the colour choice by halving the horizontal resolution
15:36:17 <ais523> so, for instance, 320x256 gave you 4 colours, 160x256 gave you eight
15:36:40 <AnMaster> ais523, those are some weird shaped pixels
15:36:48 <ais523> still rectangular
15:36:54 <ais523> bear in mind that this was aiming for a TV screen
15:37:00 <AnMaster> ais523, not even close to square
15:37:11 <ais523> so the horizontal length of pixels is determined by the length of time you send the signal for
15:37:23 <ais523> under the standard TV protocol, length of time = distance horizontally
15:37:24 <AnMaster> hm..
15:38:43 <ais523> there were some weird resolutions for the text modes, too
15:38:58 <ais523> an 80x25 text terminal would be 640x200 in terms of pixels
15:38:58 <AnMaster> ais523, those were for graphics?
15:39:02 <AnMaster> mhm
15:39:03 <ais523> AnMaster: yes
15:39:16 <AnMaster> so in the text mode the hardware draw the text rather than the software?
15:39:19 <ais523> yes
15:39:29 <AnMaster> ais523, why?
15:39:30 <ais523> back then, hardware was cheap in comparison to REM
15:39:32 <ais523> *RAM
15:39:38 <AnMaster> ah
15:40:01 <ais523> perhaps DRAM hadn't been invented at the time, or perhaps there was some other reason
15:40:57 <ais523> hmm... DRAM became practical around 1973, the BBC Micro dates from the 1980s
15:41:04 <ais523> so it's possible that it wasn't in common use in computers then
15:41:12 <ais523> or that prices hadn't come down
15:41:22 <ais523> and SRAM, which is a lot more obvious of a design, is rather expensive even nowadays
15:41:38 <AnMaster> about being common
15:41:56 <AnMaster> any guess when SSD may be more common than harddrives?
15:42:17 <AnMaster> or at least be equal or better in price, capacity and speed.
15:42:28 <ais523> hmm... I don't know
15:42:34 <ais523> but my guess is it won't take too long
15:42:41 <ais523> how long did USB sticks take to overtake CDs?
15:42:49 <AnMaster> ais523, they haven't yet?
15:42:52 <ais523> I guess it'll be similar
15:42:55 <AnMaster> or have they?
15:42:58 <ais523> AnMaster: in the UK they seem to have
15:43:17 <ais523> CDs are still used for music bought in shops, and installation media
15:43:19 <ais523> but not for much else
15:43:36 <ais523> so CDs have pretty much become an archival format rather than an everyday sort of thing
15:43:43 <AnMaster> ais523, games and software is sold on a) usb sticks b) cd/dvd c) floppies d) tapes
15:43:46 <ais523> (and installation media's more commonly DVD nowadays)
15:44:00 <ais523> AnMaster: DVDs, but installation media isn't what I was thinking of
15:44:09 <ais523> I was thinking of consumer use
15:44:14 <AnMaster> ais523, what else was dvd and cd ever commonly used for?
15:44:22 <AnMaster> burning iso images for installing linux yes
15:44:26 <ais523> AnMaster: file transfer? backups?
15:44:34 <ais523> boot media, as you say
15:44:34 <AnMaster> ais523, network?
15:44:52 <ais523> AnMaster: file transfer via network isn't all that common, unless you have Internet access
15:45:04 <AnMaster> ais523, and I have at least one computer that can't boot from usb
15:45:10 <ais523> and even in buisness and such, floppy disks or CDs used to be more common than network transfer
15:45:13 <AnMaster> one I'm sure can, the third I'm not sure about
15:45:16 <ais523> nowadays it's all USB stick
15:45:18 <ais523> *sticks
15:45:25 <AnMaster> and since I'm using it atm, I can't easily check in bios
15:45:25 <ais523> people can't be bothered to learn how to work the network transfer
15:46:01 <AnMaster> ais523, I tend to scp stuff I need to move around, or if it is really large transfer, nfs (only over trusted lan obviously)
15:46:25 <ais523> AnMaster: I think you're unusual in that respect; the sort of people who inhabit #esoteric understand networks
15:46:28 <ais523> but most people don't
15:46:45 <ais523> I mean, I use nfs while I'm at university, but most people use USB sticks
15:46:46 <AnMaster> ais523, I don't understand networks. routing tables is black magic to me
15:46:53 <AnMaster> especially if for ipv6
15:47:00 <ais523> AnMaster: you understand you can send information over them, rather than just looking at web pages
15:47:19 <AnMaster> ais523, well yes? But lots of people work at offices with network printers.
15:47:35 <AnMaster> and have shared profiles over network
15:47:45 <AnMaster> all in windows management hell
15:47:48 <ais523> AnMaster: they don't understand how the network printers work, they just know they have to select certain settings in the dialog boxes
15:48:06 <ais523> and as for the shared profiles, nearly every non-student with one I know doesn't know how they work or what they are
15:48:13 <ais523> in fact, they tend to be unused
15:48:23 <ais523> people just associate the username/password with the machine
15:48:32 -!- MigoMipo has quit.
15:48:32 <ais523> and save files to the machine not the profile
15:49:34 <AnMaster> ais523, btw, the computers for the technical/natural science courses at uni are set up a bit strange, you have "my documents" on the network. But the desktop is on the local computer, and is cleaned when you log out. On the other hand you have several GB of "free" storage there, while the persistent storage area is something like 100 MB
15:49:53 <ais523> much the same here
15:49:54 <AnMaster> they all run English win xp pro btw
15:49:58 <ais523> I think it must be saner to maintain
15:50:13 <ais523> I don't have much of an idea of what administrating Windows networks is like
15:50:26 <ais523> although on several occasions, technicians have had to walk around and make the same change to every computer on the network manually
15:50:36 <ais523> because their ssh-equivalents didn't work for what they wanted to do
15:50:45 <AnMaster> ais523, and I guess the tech/natural sience ppl sometimes needs *LOTS* of temporary storage.
15:50:54 <AnMaster> unlike most other parts of the uni
15:51:34 <ais523> AnMaster: no, it's something much simpler than that I think; lots of things save on the desktop by default so it has to be writeable, and you get lots of helpdesk calls when the desktop isn't the same every time you log in
15:51:38 <ais523> so it has to be wiped when you log out
15:51:46 <AnMaster> ais523, btw on the computer I used a few days ago there was over 200 GB free on desktop
15:51:56 <ais523> the computers have large hard drives, presumably
15:52:08 <ais523> not for any particularly good reason, just because those were the specs they were persuaded to buy
15:52:22 <AnMaster> ais523, well yes, since there was nearly equal amount used by lots of apps, like chem lab apps and what not.
15:52:42 <AnMaster> think it was 450 GB disk
15:52:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
15:53:00 <AnMaster> ais523, interesting to note is that computers at other parts of the uni are *much* weaker
15:53:21 <AnMaster> often small cases, that look like it could be a thin client (they aren't quite that though)
15:53:27 <AnMaster> s/it/they/
15:53:56 <AnMaster> ais523, it is just in the lab rooms that they are that overpowered
15:59:31 -!- inc0 has joined.
16:02:19 <AnMaster> ais523, know any non-rougelike (RPG is fine!), non-strategy open source game with a very non-linear/open-ended game world?
16:02:41 <ais523> no
16:02:44 <AnMaster> oh well
16:03:43 -!- inc0 has left (?).
16:13:29 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:19:52 -!- AnMaster has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:22:11 -!- AnMaster has joined.
16:24:52 -!- AnMaster has quit (Excess Flood).
16:25:14 -!- AnMaster has joined.
17:24:05 <Gregor> http://lawlabeethewallaby.com/
17:27:30 <Deewiant> Was it worth it?
17:44:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:54:28 -!- Pthing has joined.
17:56:18 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:11:56 -!- augur has joined.
18:45:21 <AnMaster> fungot, testing thing after bouncer upgrade
18:45:22 <fungot> AnMaster: they made a noise like someone trying to organise yet another bucket chain from the river and it was.
18:45:25 <AnMaster> ah good works
18:45:46 <AnMaster> (was seeing +/- at start of line when I shouldn't (since client handles it)
18:45:47 <AnMaster> )
19:41:58 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:48:57 <AnMaster> oerjan, iwc!
21:56:44 <fizzie> Our work-workstations have around 160G disks, of which 130G is mounted at /users/ and usable for any large data files you only need locally. It generally isn't so very useful disk space since it's not visible from the computing cluster, unlike the NFS shares.
22:12:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:13:08 <oerjan> AnMaster: read it hours ago ;D
22:13:49 * oerjan thinks he finally realized the logic he was missing for solving killer sudoku puzzles
22:25:07 <AnMaster> oh?
22:26:16 <oerjan> i realized you can use the sum of cages to deduce sums of remaining regions even if you don't know the actual content
22:26:20 -!- adam_d has joined.
22:26:56 <oerjan> until now i had only considered the sum of a cage in isolation, to deduce what could be inside it
22:27:14 <oerjan> (notation from simon tatham's puzzle help)
22:28:16 <oerjan> (sudoku is called "solo" in the tatham puzzle collection, btw)
22:29:08 <oerjan> (killer is one of the type options for it)
22:30:14 <oerjan> btw if you don't know what killer sudoku is, it's like sudoku except you get no initial cell values - instead you get an additional division into "cages", and are given the sum of the values in each cage
22:30:49 <ais523> yargh
22:30:55 <oerjan> the cages are irregularly shaped, unlike the sudoku regions
22:30:58 <ais523> I was wondering why sums were relevant in sudoku...
22:31:04 <oerjan> ah :)
22:49:46 * Gregor relinks http://lawlabeethewallaby.com/
22:50:12 * oerjan didn't get what was so funny about it the first time
22:50:48 <oerjan> or is there something more than the picture there?
22:51:03 <Deewiant> I reiterate: was it worth it?
22:53:16 <AnMaster> Gregor, are you trying to make up a new meme? If so: fail
22:53:34 <Gregor> No, I'm just trying to assert my status as Lawlabee the Wallaby :P
22:53:48 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:53:52 <Gregor> oerjan: It's not funny, it's just random. It's Lawlabee the Wallaby!
22:53:56 <Gregor> Deewiant: Absolutely.
22:54:09 <Deewiant> Whatever you say
22:57:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
22:58:28 -!- Asztal has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:58:41 <oerjan> Gregor: now would you really want to be a wallaby while there is a Warrigal around?
22:59:32 <Warrigal> Clearly, he's imitating me.
22:59:41 <Warrigal> Clearly, that's a good thing.
23:01:20 <oerjan> however, only the warrigal is a carnivore, afaik.
23:02:44 <oerjan> hm mind you, when considering cartoon animals that may not be an advantage
23:04:00 <AnMaster> what sort of animal is a "warrigal"?
23:04:17 <Warrigal> AnMaster: whatever language you speak, I bet the word for it in your language is "dingo".
23:04:42 <AnMaster> ah
23:04:42 <AnMaster> that
23:05:12 <AnMaster> what language uses "Warrigal" then?
23:05:16 <Gregor> And yes, Warrigal did eat your baby.
23:05:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Australian English.
23:05:33 <Warrigal> But I did so for a very good reason.
23:05:45 <Warrigal> And Dharruk.
23:05:45 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:05:50 <Deewiant> Probably originating from some Aboriginal... yeah, that then.
23:06:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Australian English shouldn't be classified as English
23:06:22 <AnMaster> it's too different
23:06:28 <Gregor> Ha
23:06:30 <Deewiant> American English shouldn't be classified as English
23:06:31 <Deewiant> It's too crap
23:06:53 <AnMaster> for anyone disagreeing: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/IrregularPodcast007.mp3
23:07:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, agreed!
23:07:02 <AnMaster> completely
23:07:03 <Gregor> Deewiant: Y'all just makin' fun of 'mericans cuz we ain't wastin' our time wit your shit grammar.
23:07:22 <Deewiant> Yeah, that's part of it.
23:07:33 <AnMaster> Gregor, and your fuck up spelling too
23:07:58 <Gregor> AnMaster: We just love zees more than brits because "zed" sounds so stupid.
23:08:15 <AnMaster> Gregor, "zed"?
23:08:21 <Deewiant> You sound stupid.
23:08:29 <AnMaster> isn't that the name for the letter z?
23:08:38 <AnMaster> no clue what zees are
23:08:49 <Warrigal> "Zee" is the other name for the letter z.
23:08:51 <Gregor> AnMaster: You see that airplane flying over your head? My joke is on that airplane.
23:08:51 <Deewiant> It's 'Merican for z.
23:08:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah
23:09:14 <AnMaster> Gregor, wth?
23:09:17 <Gregor> One of the major spelling differences between British and American English is that we use more zees. Clearly this is because "zee" sounds better than "zed".
23:09:18 <Warrigal> The name that rhymes with "gee", "pee", and "vee", so as not to give the alphabet song an anticlimactic ending.
23:09:21 <Warrigal> As far as I know.
23:09:29 <AnMaster> Gregor, what do you mean with airplane?
23:09:33 <Gregor> >_<
23:09:44 <Gregor> AnMaster: MY META-JOKE IS ALSO ON THAT FUCKING AIRPLANE
23:09:55 <AnMaster> I do happen to live rather close to an airport, just 15 km or so
23:10:00 <AnMaster> so aircrafts often pass overhead here
23:10:05 <Warrigal> AnMaster: are you familiar with the idiom "to be over someone's head"?
23:10:06 <AnMaster> mostly SAS and Lufthansa iirc
23:10:17 <AnMaster> Warrigal, not as far as I can remember
23:10:20 <Elench> Special Air Service?
23:10:31 <AnMaster> Elench, Scandinavian Air <something>
23:10:33 <Warrigal> If calculus is over my head, then I do not understand calculus.
23:10:36 <Elench> Ah good
23:10:57 <Elench> Warrigal: I'd be slightly disturbed if you were getting significant traffic from my first guess
23:10:59 -!- jix has joined.
23:11:13 <AnMaster> "Scandinavian Airlines System, an airline company in Denmark, Norway and Sweden"
23:11:16 <AnMaster> is what Wikipedia says
23:11:31 <AnMaster> <Warrigal> If calculus is over my head, then I do not understand calculus. <-- I pitty you
23:12:33 <Warrigal> That's what it means to say that something is over someone's head; it means that they don't understand it.
23:12:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
23:12:55 <AnMaster> Warrigal, right
23:13:31 <Warrigal> Anyway, anyone who does not speak English as it is written in broad transcriptions speaks it wrong.
23:13:47 <AnMaster> Warrigal, in what transcriptions?
23:14:06 <AnMaster> I understood each word there, just not the whole
23:14:17 <Warrigal> "Broad transcription" is a technical term.
23:14:24 <AnMaster> Warrigal, meaning?
23:15:12 <Warrigal> A broad transcription of a word is, essentially, a representation of its phonemes.
23:15:33 <AnMaster> Warrigal, oh, like in a dictionary?
23:15:33 <AnMaster> with the IPA thingy
23:15:35 <Warrigal> Yeah.
23:15:39 <Elench> As in the entire phase space of its possible pronunciations?
23:15:48 <Elench> s/possible/valid/
23:15:54 <AnMaster> Elench, calculate it's size!
23:16:02 <AnMaster> err
23:16:05 <Elench> AnMaster: no thanks
23:16:05 <AnMaster> that should be its
23:16:05 <AnMaster> maybe
23:16:15 <Elench> It should be its
23:16:26 <AnMaster> Elench, it would be interesting to find out if it is finite or infinite
23:16:46 <Elench> It's infinate
23:16:49 <Warrigal> So something like /flɔr/ or /əˈpɪɹ/.
23:16:53 <Elench> Or at least, it's analogue
23:17:46 <Warrigal> I have no good reason for using r in the first of those and ɹ for the second; for English; they're precisely the same thing. I would have said /əˈpɪr/ if I had noticed.
23:17:48 <AnMaster> Warrigal, mind you, I can't easily read that without checking a reference
23:17:55 * Warrigal nods.
23:18:43 <AnMaster> Warrigal, and right now, what with having flu/bad cold (not yet known which) I can't be bothered to check that
23:18:57 <Warrigal> Anyway, I would say that the main defining feature of a broad transcription is that it can be more or less independent of accent.
23:19:18 <AnMaster> Warrigal, huh how?
23:19:24 <Warrigal> British people say /flɔr/ and /əˈpɪr/ even though they don't say [r] at the end.
23:19:41 <AnMaster> Warrigal, the dictionaries I have seen sometimes list two or more transcriptions
23:20:04 <AnMaster> Warrigal, what words are those examples?
23:20:11 <AnMaster> floor?
23:20:12 <Warrigal> "Floor" and "appear".
23:20:16 <AnMaster> aha
23:20:52 -!- ehird has joined.
23:21:47 <Warrigal> Broad transcriptions don't reflect the actual sounds; they just reflect what people feel like they're saying.
23:22:21 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:23:16 <AnMaster> Warrigal, well, even so, sometimes they differ quite a lot
23:23:40 <ehird> yo yo yo.
23:23:50 <AnMaster> oh my
23:23:59 <ehird> indeed AnMaster i did not die
23:24:10 <Warrigal> A British accent takes /flɔr/ and gives you [flɔː], and takes /əˈpɪr/ and gives you [əˈpʰɪə]; the things in brackets are the actual sounds.
23:24:14 <AnMaster> ehird, me coughs at ehird
23:24:29 <AnMaster> ehird, flu time!
23:24:41 <ehird> It's only worth being scared about if it comes from a pig.
23:25:20 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah I got it from a student at uni with quite a weird shaped nose
23:25:34 <ehird> 02:54:03 <oklopol> also what's the opposite of nodding, i don't know it in any language
23:25:34 <ehird> wat
23:25:36 <Warrigal> It takes /ˈiːhərd/ and gives you [ˈiːhəd]. Not that that matters.
23:25:46 <AnMaster> ehird, shaking your head?
23:25:51 <ehird> AnMaster: if you're having sex with them it doesn't matter what shape their nose is, you're going to catch the flu
23:25:59 <ehird> you must learn these things.
23:26:21 <AnMaster> ehird, So must your mom
23:26:48 <ehird> AnMaster: you should always wear a nose condom.
23:28:03 <AnMaster> ehird, Yeah, your mom seemed to have a fetishism for that! Very strange.
23:28:10 <ehird> fetishism.
23:28:18 <AnMaster> typoed maybe
23:28:36 <AnMaster> hm nop
23:28:36 <ehird> you need to reorientate again
23:28:58 <AnMaster> ehird, well it was *she* who had it, not me. Guess while I'm no longer in UK!
23:29:12 <ehird> 03:29:11 <oklopol> (i promise i'll stop being sexist when i see the first female mathematician that doesn't suck)
23:29:12 <ehird> there's prolly a decent trans mathematician
23:29:18 <ehird> also prolly a decent woman mathematician, but :P
23:29:30 <ehird> AnMaster: Most people would just say, you know, "fetish".
23:29:35 <AnMaster> <ehird> 03:29:11 <oklopol> (i promise i'll stop being sexist when i see the first female mathematician that doesn't suck) <-- Ada Lovelace? (sp?)
23:30:09 <ehird> Lovelace wasn't a mathematician.
23:30:22 <AnMaster> ehird, hm true, related tough
23:30:30 <ehird> She basically made program traces of whatever engine programs in her head using Babbage's definition.
23:30:39 <ehird> (whatever engine) programs, that is.
23:31:08 <AnMaster> ehird, ah... I got stuck parsing that
23:31:19 <ehird> Ditto.
23:31:26 <AnMaster> ehird, but you wrote it?
23:32:20 <AnMaster> Categories: 1815 births | 1852 deaths | 19th-century mathematicians | Ada programming language | Byron family | Computer pioneers | Daughters of barons | English computer programmers | English countesses | English mathematicians | English scientists | English women writers | Lord Byron | Women computer scientists | Women engineers | Women mathematicians | Women of the Victorian era | 19th-century wome
23:32:20 <AnMaster> n writers | Accidental human deaths in England
23:32:24 <AnMaster> that's from wikipedia
23:32:31 <AnMaster> which may not be accurate
23:32:32 <AnMaster> of course
23:33:06 <ehird> I stumbled on re-reading.
23:33:30 <AnMaster> ehird, they seem to consider her a mathematician, as well a programming language
23:33:56 <AnMaster> ehird, ok... what about Sophie Germain?
23:33:59 <ehird> Categories are "things about X", not "things describable as X". Well, they're both.
23:34:18 <AnMaster> ehird, sorry I forgot <joke>
23:34:47 <ehird> Yes, well, don't let a joke get in the way of pedanticism seems to be your motto; I might as well try it out.
23:35:22 <AnMaster> ehird, now there is no way you can't argue that you aren't a hypocrite (and so am I here :P)
23:36:15 <ehird> The problem is that I freely admit I'm a hypocrite. :P
23:37:09 <AnMaster> ehird, ok that is a nice way out
23:42:39 <ehird> 15:40:42 <zzo38> imconvert -size 84622x1 -depth 8 r:- -channel R -fx "p{i+20*sin(i/50),j}" r:-
23:42:41 <ehird> Cute.
23:42:54 <AnMaster> ehird, old. that was quite some time ago
23:43:23 <ehird> I also quoted oklopol from the same day.
23:43:27 <ehird> I'm logreading the things I missed.
23:43:38 <AnMaster> ehird, that was quite some time agoa
23:43:40 <AnMaster> ago*
23:43:47 <AnMaster> also wasn't aware it was same day
23:44:17 <ehird> 16:00:16 <coppro> I finally figured out how to convince automake to do precompiled headers!
23:44:17 <ehird> 16:00:23 <coppro> It's hideous, but it works!
23:44:17 <ehird> and then
23:44:17 <ehird> 16:00:16 <coppro> […] automake […]
23:44:18 <ehird> 16:00:23 <coppro> […] hideous […]
23:44:18 <ehird> yep
23:45:10 <ehird> 16:12:32 <coppro> one of the dummy files is getting distributed because I can't but it in nodist_SOURCES or else it gets built after the rest of the project
23:45:10 <ehird> Oh, auto*… people sure do delight in inventing nonexistent problems.
23:45:26 <ais523> auto* works pretty well once set up correctly
23:45:33 <ais523> but setting it up in the first place is a pain
23:46:02 <ehird> I must be the only person who tries to avoid wasting so much time solving problems that don't exist.
23:46:17 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:47:07 <zzo38> Yesterday I played D&D. This was the first time that the *PAGE NUMBERS* had a significant effect on the game! I never thought it was possible, but the strategy of this game is complex and you would learn new things about it a lot.
23:47:32 <ehird> Dear Diary, today I started prefixing all of zzo38's lines mentally with
23:48:12 <AnMaster> ehird, with what?
23:48:14 <zzo38> PRIVMSG #esoteric :
23:48:33 <ehird> AnMaster: Whoosh
23:48:50 <AnMaster> ehird, oh it wasn't just a cut off line
23:48:52 <AnMaster> right
23:49:56 <ais523> zzo38: how can the page numbers matter?
23:50:33 <zzo38> Well, because of alphabetal orders
23:50:48 <zzo38> I wanted to transform into some strong creature, so I did so and found CHUUL
23:50:57 <zzo38> It was near a page number near the beginning
23:51:11 <zzo38> And it helps in other ways, too, with what selection is made
23:53:06 <Pthing> chuul
23:53:12 <Pthing> what is chuul
23:53:22 <zzo38> It's in the book
23:53:37 <Pthing> entirely correct yet useless
23:53:43 <Pthing> what does it mean
23:55:48 <zzo38> CHUUL: Like some large insect or monstrous crustacean, the creature rises from the still pool, its pincerlike claws snapping angrily as torchlight reflects off its mottled, armored carapace. Its small dark eyes fix you with a hungry stare, and the tentacles dripping from its mouth squirm excitedly as it emerges from the water.
23:55:57 <zzo38> That's the italic descrpition in the book.
23:56:41 <ehird> That reads like some sort of horrible, horrible tenticle tentacle rape erotica.
23:57:26 <AnMaster> ehird, you read much such to be able to compare?
23:57:29 <zzo38> No, that's just the description.
23:57:39 <ehird> AnMaster: That thought hit me about three seconds before you said that
23:57:41 <AnMaster> XD
23:57:42 <zzo38> It isn't rape or erotica.
23:57:49 <ehird> s/$/./; seems I haven't got any better at typing
23:57:55 <ehird> zzo38: I know, but the imagery in that last sentence, eww.
23:59:46 <zzo38> O.
23:59:54 -!- coppro has joined.