< 1253578863 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253580381 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253580658 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253581439 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253581593 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253581626 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-158.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253582153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird submits login form < 1253582161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? [OK] [Cancel] < 1253582169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except without the ?, just wanted to show it was a dialog box) < 1253582177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it yes/no? < 1253582179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1253582197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get On With It! < 1253582403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why applications used by (l)users that show dialogs should have feature that logs for each dialog box: Who got it, When, what was the title, what was the message, what were the choices, what choice user made and how long it took for user to decide. :-> < 1253582430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253582554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Or just not pop up empty dialog boxes :P < 1253582637 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the ultimate "dilemma dialog"... Dialog box with no text and two buttons, "Yes" and "No". < 1253582647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what Epiphany gave me. < 1253582649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Also, wouldn't that be better displayed by repeating the dialog box with the chosen option in the push-down state and the unchosen option greyed out? < 1253582662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with any checkboxes on it, etc. < 1253582795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In fact, why not just constantly capture a video of the screen? :P < 1253582911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Would take too much space. < 1253582924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How big is your disk? < 1253583005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: This is old and crappy computer: 39 036 692KiB FS total space. < 1253583081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253583101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 39 036 692 kilobytes in gigabytes < 1253583102 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.ngindex.com/browsegroup.php?groupid=150 - [15]Cached - [16]Similar < 1253583109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 39036692 kilobytes in gigabytes < 1253583110 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 036 692 kilobytes = 37.2282906 gigabytes < 1253583116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ouch. < 1253583126 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Ouch. < 1253583155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM size is quite "ouch" as well... < 1253583485 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, buying new computer isn't just going to large deparment store and buying something... At least not if you at all care what you get... < 1253583868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buying a ThinkPad and plugging a monitor into it is probably the easies/cheapest way to get a good prebuilt computer :P < 1253583888 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck. Laptops. < 1253583910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't exactly matter if you plug in a monitor and peripherals. < 1253583926 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... Let's just say that "prebuilt" is not an absolute requirement... < 1253583934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I was just responding to that line. < 1253583968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, it's not exactly hard... you only need a handful of components and the choice is usually clear. < 1253584094 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584095 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case, PSU, CPU, Memory, Motherboard, optical drive, HDD, Video card (if you care about video performance or motherboard has no video controller), NIC (again if not integrated), FDD (if one really wants one)... Anything else? < 1253584123 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sound card (if not integrated). < 1253584164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget video card, NIC and FDD: get a motherboard with those integrated (Nvidia for the graphics, due to having the best Linux performance and good performance in general) and who uses floppy (although it's a $5 affair) < 1253584181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So case, PSU, CPU, memory, mobo, optical, drive, maybe floppy drive. < 1253584300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newegg is the thing to find what to buy, although not to actually buy unless you're in the US... but there isn't much actual choosing to do: optical drives are pretty much the same unless you're talking pricey. < 1253584316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with cases above a minimum baseline, unless you care a lot about noise levels. < 1253584334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's pretty much five choices to make, and they're mainly based on budget... < 1253584350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best to start with motherboards, then that constrains memory/CPU... < 1253584355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253584366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: although the best thing to decide is AMD or Intel imo < 1253584380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that basically comes down to budget < 1253584403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some serious old-school, but I would really like PS/2 input ports and VGA output... :-) < 1253584414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every mobo has that, except maybe VGA. < 1253584424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also get PS/2 adapters, unless you really hit more than six keys at once. < 1253584448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobo is pretty constrained, though, as there aren't all that many desktop mobos with Nvidia graphics. < 1253584457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than ATI, I'd say. Although I'm not sure there. < 1253584495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More "ouch" from this computer: current X graphics driver: fb. < 1253584506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Holy shit. < 1253584600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as CPUs go it's pretty simple... AMD if you're on a budget, otherwise a Core 2 Duo, or a Quad if you care about performance, or a Core i7 if you *really* care about performance and have infinite money... < 1253584601 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't going to be gaming setup. So I don't think graphics performance is that important. Stability is. < 1253584621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvidia drivers for linux are the second most stable to intel, but the Intel drivers are really, really, really bad < 1253584648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably slower than your fb there < 1253584727 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584727 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584727 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I said five choices, but PSU is pretty much "get the highest-rated ~300-350W in your budget" unless you have a beefy CPU... < 1253584808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then CPUs and therefore motherboards aren't choices either, being primarily budget-based... and cases don't matter as long as they're not plastic crap... and memory is basically DDR2 vs DDR3, and since DDR2 is cheaper and most cpus/mobos don't support DDR3... < 1253584814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the only choice is the drive. < 1253584830 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one can get kernel-level framebuffer, then one could configure X to use fb. That should get crappy drivers out of hotpath... :-/ < 1253584865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The proprietary Nvidia drivers are pretty much rock-solid, being used by a huge portion of Linux users. < 1253584888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if I wouldn't accept any proprietary software at all, I'd get an Intel card and deal with the slowness... < 1253584913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but then I'd also use that funky non-free-stuff extracted kernel, as that's about as non-free < 1253585134 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... I just thought about video driver stability: "What could posibly go wrong with vesafb" (not many video cards support that but)... Since in normal operation it essentially is device that just exports mapping of I/O memory. :-> < 1253585345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot. < 1253585366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's nice to have speed greater than a tortoise. < 1253585575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think you'd like that splitting window manager for the linux console I found a while back :-P < 1253585654 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough charcters. Fullscreen Xterm is 212 by 76 characters. < 1253585669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You can have framebuffer consoles. < 1253585679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was what the "screenshots" given used, I think < 1253585875 0 :Slereah!n=butt@92.135.29.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253586487 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253586535 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253586829 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253587058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution for Evince PDF-in-browser with mozplugger displaying the menu: change evince to evince --preview. < 1253587077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kittens and bunnies will fly out of your nose. Also a rainbow. < 1253587291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds painful < 1253588068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two downsides of mozplugger+Evince: < 1253588077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With preview mode, at least, in Epiphany a new window flashes for a split second. < 1253588099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it sucks up all your keybindings so you can't go back or close the window or anything... which *really* sucks. < 1253588460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why oh why do crazy people want a calendar integrated to their email client? < 1253588462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different. things! < 1253588467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Things < 1253589451 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253589943 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253590606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253590606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1253590617 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the brief intro to the haskell "object" language? < 1253590642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253590664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in attempting to optimize the ghc, the ghc people invented this language beneath haskell < 1253590668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a sort of minimalist haskell < 1253590673 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only like 7 core operations < 1253590677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with multi-lambdas < 1253590716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that genuinely take multiple values as arguments (without returning a lambda to do so) and return multiple values < 1253590727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its like impossible to read. lol < 1253590877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this something new or just the old ghc core or g-machine thing? < 1253590884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its new < 1253590889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall anything about multiple _returns_ < 1253590899 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a multiple return in HASKELL < 1253590905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather in the intermediate language < 1253590919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the stg-machine, silly < 1253590930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, i dont know. < 1253590931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i browsed a paper on it once < 1253590934 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what they called this. < 1253590939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a video out recently about it tho < 1253590942 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of <>'s < 1253590952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spineless tagless g-machine was the old version at some point < 1253590973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably been changed to unrecognizability years ago < 1253590986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh an xml thing? < 1253591015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1253591028 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> is the equivalent of () in c-like languages < 1253591034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its sort of an argument tuple < 1253591036 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a data structure. < 1253591041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like a lambda of no args is < 1253591053 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\<> -> ... < 1253591064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lambda of one arg \ -> ... < 1253591065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1253591071 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you apply it similarly < 1253591079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \<> -> 5; f <> < 1253591092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \ -> 5; f <10> < 1253591250 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because haskell is lazy < 1253591263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all haskell function arguments are effectively thunks < 1253591269 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are implemented thusly < 1253591294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1253591297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure that is Core. < 1253591302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the intermediate language, something like haskell type Int -> Int would become (<> -> Int) -> (<> -> Int) < 1253591307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have ANOTHER bracketting convention < 1253591310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are you really educating us on haskell? come on now. < 1253591312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that <> -> x is just {x} < 1253591322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the whole intermediate language is impossible to read < 1253591330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<({Int},{Int})> < 1253591358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ <(<> -> Int, <> -> Int)> < 1253591360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1253591384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ just (Int, Int) ? or something. < 1253591399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe its <{({Int},{Int})}> < 1253591401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even know man < 1253591403 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1253591407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Core is much more readable than what he's proposing. Core is nearly a subset of Haskell... < 1253591408 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was confusion < 1253591417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proposing/discussing/ < 1253591418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not proposing anything. < 1253591432 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they do all sorts of weird things like having all functions really be wrappers for these < 1253591433 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1253591466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> \y -> x+y has a lifted version defined f' = \ -> x+y < 1253591473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the normal version defined in terms of it < 1253591475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> < 1253591493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> \y -> f' < 1253591529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets them do all sorts of weird optimizations like any thing you see f 1 2 the compiler just replaces that with the simpler f' 1 2 < 1253591532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1253591548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253591562 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language itself has only like 7 core operations. which is interesting. < 1253591576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is defined in terms of those < 1253591576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug. < 1253591588 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vimeo.com/6688091 < 1253591589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: This is almost certainly not GHC's underlying form. < 1253591594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is now! < 1253591603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC compiles to C-- before machine code. C-- is *far* richer in semantics. < 1253591617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This lesser-semantic version almost certainly doesn't optimise better. < 1253591619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in what version? < 1253591619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, well < 1253591620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS? < 1253591629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be intermediate between GHC and C-- even < 1253591637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Core. < 1253591639 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know, just watch the video. < 1253591642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also semantically much richer. < 1253591648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work without audio? < 1253591652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1253591670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, how long is this thing? < 1253591680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half an hour maybe? < 1253591681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that video is a proposal < 1253591686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not something accepted < 1253591689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the introduction < 1253591709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure he said its what theyre moving towards presently. < 1253591745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its not fully implemented in the standard builds and such < 1253591755 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably isnt < 1253591759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1253591765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats irrelevant to the point < 1253591769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1253591770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is your mom < 1253591772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is craaaazy < 1253591772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't diss her < 1253591776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SNAP < 1253591796 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out the video tho dude < 1253591797 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its cool < 1253591819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are borderline ADHD, so am I < 1253591829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's the border at the other side < 1253591847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trouble paying attention to music videos! < 1253591848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHDA? < 1253591852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253591860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a text transcript and I might read it in spurts :P < 1253592548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im off to code, read, then sleep < 1253592549 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1253592706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur's OS is single-tasking. < 1253592711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253592795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't code and irc simultaneously :P < 1253592818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sick < 1253592820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and extraordinarily tired < 1253592821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1253592822 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant < 1253592859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253593669 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@83.194.172.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253594358 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253594442 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253595036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to make evince always use continuous mode? < 1253598936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253599325 0 :Warrigal_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253599331 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253599335 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253600308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdf < 1253600407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, r.e.s. is wiking again. < 1253600546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15588 < 1253600547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15696 < 1253600552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems Oleg has an attitude problem. < 1253600684 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253600899 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253601116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hungry.com/old-hungry/products/gwp/gwp-screenshot-30-10-1998.png ;; jesus christ < 1253602088 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253602540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ẞo, Unicode haß had a ußeful character for capitalising ßnakes since 2008: ẞ, capital ß. < 1253602550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*�snake� < 1253602554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*capitali�ing < 1253602662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From addressing point of view BitBitJump is in the same category as Subleq or any microprocessor assembly language. If I understand correctly, you say that the language is TC given the word size enough (and memory) for an algorithm, but not TC if the memory or the word size is finite. That would be true for any TC language with limited memory. However, to make a language TC, as I mentioned above, you do not need infinite memory inside the abstract machine < 1253602662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. The pragmatics of the language (or environment) can be changed so, that it can provide enough external memory to realize a particular algorithm." < 1253602664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, the stupid burns. < 1253603164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or are spreadsheets like an unstructured combination of a mathematical environment and a record-keeping environment, with the former being forced into columns and rows because it wouldn't work otherwise? < 1253603170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need an esoteric spreadsheet < 1253603191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the features are specially tuned to let you use the bizarre equations, and to dissuade all record keeping < 1253603472 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or using triangular cells. < 1253603487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ooh, how about circular? then you can have infinite cells < 1253603491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covering up the tiny holes < 1253603501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooming spreadsheet interface < 1253603516 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end it stores both formula (=code) and data in the one sheet, just like funge < 1253603571 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i recall correctly someone made excel implementation of funge (or orthogonal, whichever)... right? < 1253603714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in funge, you mean? < 1253603716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly. < 1253603719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253603722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1253603729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: an implementation in VBA macros you mean? < 1253603746 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. of course VBA is required. < 1253603757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that's just a visual basic implementation then < 1253603778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spreadsheets are quite pure mathematically, but I don't know if they're a very good model for actual things... < 1253603788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why an esoteric one would be fun < 1253603828 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion spreadsheets are just like RDBMS. there are tasks suitable for RDBMS (and thus spreadsheets) and tasks not suitable for them. < 1253603870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean they are like RDBMS or they are like RDBMS in their suitability? < 1253603878 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former. < 1253603900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they are like RDBMS at all: a spreadsheet is fundamentally a 2-dimensional vector of equations operating on the vector < 1253603905 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously spreadsheet lacks general JOINability, but that doesn't make much difference < 1253603913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depending on those elements they use < 1253603915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the updating < 1253603925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDBMSs are far more static < 1253603930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have that dependency-based calculation < 1253603973 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be alternative to JOINs... < 1253603988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253604034 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i don't argue that spreadsheet can be translated to (or back from) RDBMS of course. :) < 1253604042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't think they're similar :) < 1253604061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean as far as a 2d grid of numbers goes, sure, but that's totally not what spreadsheets are about < 1253604063 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to point out some similarities. < 1253604078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253605067 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253605353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1253605364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1253605377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay away from Oleg, i fear some kind of chain reaction... < 1253605501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: howso? < 1253605505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm interested now :) < 1253605511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, attitude? < 1253605522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1253605523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not passive-aggressive, I'm just a dick < 1253605558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know why he reverted those changes (one of them yours), btw? < 1253605562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, no edit summary < 1253605570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um when was that < 1253605581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : asdf < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, r.e.s. is wiking again. < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15588 < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15696 < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seems Oleg has an attitude problem. < 1253605589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this month. < 1253605917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's caught up in that whole discussion < 1253606064 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have finite size address? < 1253606149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be made infinite (see my first couple talk page comments) but it would be incompatible with the finite size versions < 1253606187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: see current page. < 1253606190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not tc. < 1253606202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically without that assembler stuff you cannot possibly make bitsize-insensitive programs < 1253606206 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, then it certainly cannot be TC. he seems not understand the concepts... < 1253606217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not obviously anyway < 1253606262 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253606291 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253606399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253606400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253606511 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253606616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253607681 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253608995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253609149 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253609460 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609726 0 :fadeout!n=mflevrn@ip68-0-181-106.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fadeout < 1253609817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen your name around here before < 1253609818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new? < 1253609828 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253609865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably for the programming languages and not the magick, considering your channels < 1253609880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the latter of which, contrary to popular opinion, we do not engage in. most of the time.) < 1253609936 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, new to ubuntu linux, not so new to irc, though its been a long time since ive been on < 1253609953 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ubuntu channel got me on here, now im bored and looking for interesting channels < 1253609971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, how did the ubuntu channel get you here? < 1253610002 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the help < 1253610016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? where do they mention us? < 1253610038 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that channel didnt get me to esoteric < 1253610077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :) < 1253610082 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got to this channel via browsing the channel list (which isnt too extensive on this server) and "esoteric" caught my attn. even at this hour most channels are quit < 1253610084 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet < 1253610093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are fine purveyors, yada yada yada, of esoteric programming languages http://esolangs.org/ < 1253610095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of the time. < 1253610103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically this channel is about everything BUT esolangs. < 1253610114 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, programming < 1253610122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1253610131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is a technology server, after all. < 1253610149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ubuntu is good. hi. < 1253610176 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya ive noticed < 1253610181 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1253610199 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming, thats a new one for me < 1253610208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of Brainfuck? < 1253610209 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i know esoteric and programming < 1253610211 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not together < 1253610225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL? Unlambda? < 1253610230 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative < 1253610233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook? < 1253610235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chef? < 1253610236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet? < 1253610251 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe negative < 1253610256 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a newb < 1253610257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha, a virgin. sacrifice ten goats. < 1253610289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the topic (said by a bot) is a pretty good summation of what we aim for in a language. if it's useful, it's probably bad, and if it's weird, it's good. but preferably novel. < 1253610323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck might help. < 1253610332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being the most popular esolang) < 1253610357 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is ironic < 1253610370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1253610429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh... no scrollback due to forgetting to quit my irc client at home before going to university today < 1253610436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just read the logs. < 1253610450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess what I'm doing? :P < 1253610457 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive just been in conversation with peeps the last few days about career evaluation and how i should have gotten into programming in the first place. What you just said about the summation is right up my alley < 1253610457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complaining :) < 1253610460 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timing is crazy < 1253610478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas there are no companies yet dedicated to esolangs < 1253610484 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1253610491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fizzie ostensibly got a job based on Befunge, if you stretch reality a lot < 1253610493 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spose < 1253610519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well fizzie ostensibly got a job based on Befunge, if you stretch reality a lot <-- huh? I must have missed that < 1253610548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interviewer asked about "Befunge" being listed on his resume and was semi-interested. < 1253610551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's just a matter of perspective. If I choose to believe the Befunge-related conversation during the job interview was what got me hired, who's going to say no. < 1253610559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Befunge = fizzie job! < 1253610566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GOD < 1253610568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God will say no. < 1253610571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well you work at an university, so plausible! < 1253610577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, it wasn't this job. < 1253610580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253610584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Befunge job was actually at Nokia. < 1253610605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! that explains my phone < 1253610606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go for a mobile with Befunge built in. < 1253610608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ha < 1253610618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They have so many legacy Befunge systems there, they wanted someone who speaks the language." < 1253610630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+$,26~@k < 1253610632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253610636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46#81,++-q < 1253610640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that supposed to make sense? < 1253610643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of those I mean < 1253610647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I speak Befunge! < 1253610666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I can read it pretty fast and I can tell those doesn't make a lot of sense < 1253610675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't actually code in Befunge. < 1253610725 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253610739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird < 1253610740 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird < 1253610754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where that animation comes from. < 1253610755 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learned some stuff about mmap() despite being *nix-ignorant
< 1253610765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what animation? < 1253610777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mmap is quite wonderful IMO < 1253610786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, a Compiz thing with the OSD notifications used to fade I think. Maybe. < 1253610790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... I hear that not all *nixes support it < 1253610795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not POSIX, right? < 1253610798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes it is... < 1253610802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap is pretty much universal < 1253610804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some *nixes have buggy implementations < 1253610808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen a nix without mmap < 1253610811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1253610811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what I read, anyways) < 1253610816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even crufty legacy implementations < 1253610822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: sounds like you're reading FUD :) < 1253610834 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just quoting CWS (of CWSDPMI fame) < 1253610834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253610836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it is optional in POSIX.1-2001 but required in POSIX.1-2008 < 1253610868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, DPMI 1.0 is said to be able to support it, but since that was (is) somewhat rare, nobody bothered < 1253610869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: a win/dos person is unlikely to be unbiased about nix stuff < 1253610875 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though DPMIONE is freeware now < 1253610878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, only DS9K type of *nix tends to lack it < 1253610899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone ought to actually make a DS9K, it doesn't exist < 1253610904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some aspects of some systems < 1253610906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a total system < 1253610907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what is DPMI supposed to be? < 1253610911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about internix? < 1253610917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever MS one was called < 1253610920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix. < 1253610924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253610927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is about as complete as cygwin. < 1253610931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1253610969 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPMI is the DOS-based interface for pmode / selectors / safe API for extended memory etc. (Win16, Win32, OS/2, DOSEMU, CWSDPMI, QDPMI, etc) < 1253610985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that. But what has it got to do with *nix... < 1253610996 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap() could be supported in DOS/DJGPP via DPMI 1.0 < 1253611013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was too rare (only 386Max) "back in the day", so they never bothered < 1253611021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DPMIONE is basically a freeware 386Max) < 1253611027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same author) < 1253611051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine anyone caring these days < 1253611060 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides me? :-) < 1253611086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah < 1253611107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should go use OS/2 too while you are at it! < 1253611137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tempt me ;-) < 1253611230 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Cfunge will require AVX soon :-P
< 1253611270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hm? It doesn't require any CPU specific features. It can optionally make use of SSE2, but apart from that it is up to the compiler < 1253611302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus my desktop support up to SSE3, my laptop a bit more, but none with AVX < 1253611311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVX isn't even out yet. < 1253611328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1253611328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, it isn't as if I keep track of that < 1253611341 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being facetious < 1253611342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i was talking to AnMaster < 1253611343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc boch (sp?) implements AVX though < 1253611350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bochs. < 1253611354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253611439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I even tested cfunge on PPC and SPARC (not recently though, only had access to those temporarily) < 1253611487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Mac OS X dropping PPC support, that's unlikely to get more popular < 1253611510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recently had very brief access to PPC laptop but it was old (Panther) and had no XCode installed yet
< 1253611520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and? cfunge has pure C fallbacks for all cpu specific optimised parts. < 1253611530 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke :-P < 1253611546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the ppc I have at home is an first model ibook with dead battery and glitchy power connector < 1253611553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2 GB harddrive < 1253611557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy < 1253611559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs Mac OS 9 < 1253611562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy < 1253611564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, before OS X < 1253611581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably no mmap there < 1253611584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I could put a linux system on nfs and boot that using a cd for loading it < 1253611594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, OS 9 isn't even close to POSIX < 1253611596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1253611602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I gathered < 1253611636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I booted linux cd on it, shouldn't be impossible to boot a cd and mount root over nfs < 1253611637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1253611660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naive question, but why did you use mmap in the first place? speed? < 1253611662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs are supposed to support some other boot over network way, but not PXE iirc < 1253611674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ease of implementation actually < 1253611688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with read() I had to handle \r\n across a read border < 1253611707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mmap I don't have to bother about that < 1253611741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os 9 is the worst operating system ever < 1253611742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1253611750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worse than OS 7? < 1253611750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, desktop < 1253611753 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than Win 3.1? < 1253611756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: system 7 was wonderful < 1253611763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal, fast, usable < 1253611765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than DOS? :-) < 1253611765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistent < 1253611768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, right < 1253611773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 8 then? < 1253611780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 3.1 is limited but not annoying < 1253611787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1253611790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran fine on the hardware of the time < 1253611795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... no < 1253611798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucked < 1253611804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 9 ran fine on my ibook though < 1253611808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, win 3.1 sucked < 1253611810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 32 MB ram upgraded to 64 < 1253611815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sucked in a decent way < 1253611821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos is, ehh < 1253611832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is painful < 1253611833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a purpose and it fulfils it, it just isn't very ambitious and is a bit too minimal < 1253611839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it wasn't the worst ever, but it was fairly unstable and most apps were just either too ambitious, buggy, etc. < 1253611844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't very much fun to program for, and it's quite unstable < 1253611854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in day-to-day usage it works fine for the time < 1253611864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked* < 1253611864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, OS 9 is worse than all of those < 1253611869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "for the time" < 1253611870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 8 too? < 1253611889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OS 8 was just a revision of System 7 making it more unstable and buggy, but not enough to kill it < 1253611895 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253611902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 8.5, the major release, was just the prelude to the ultimate suckiness of OS 9 < 1253611923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1253611926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 9 would be half annoying if it wasn't so colossally slow < 1253611932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about system 6 then= < 1253611934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1253611948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 6 was, uhh, typical black-on-white mac system < 1253611963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also os 9 wasn't slow on that 300 MHz ibook. Maybe you used it on very old hardware? < 1253611967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real hope programming on it or anything, but it's great at word processing and editing images I guess? < 1253611972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, desktop publishing, the original point of the mac < 1253612005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It had a G3 expansion card, something like 90MiB of RAM (a bit meagre, but come on! I was browsing the filesystem and it was slow) and a 1GB Quantum Fireball disk < 1253612025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more understandable without the G3, but it has the G3 < 1253612039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was fine on 64 MB ram, 300 MHz G3. The 3.2 GB harddrive was a bit small though < 1253612043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1253612046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really slow for me. < 1253612053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also upgrade boards aren't really that good < 1253612058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure cpu is faster < 1253612063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest of the system? < 1253612068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the G3 was a major improvement over the predecessors. < 1253612071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, stuff like IO buses and such < 1253612075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90MiB is enough to run the kernel and Finder < 1253612083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was slow expanding small directories < 1253612089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't the slow you get from being bottlenecked by an IO bus < 1253612092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snappy on the ibook < 1253612098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you < 1253612112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, system bus too < 1253612112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for accessing memory < 1253612122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stabby on the iBook. < 1253612150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you called OS 9 unstable I would however agree < 1253612167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it could be any app that crashed it < 1253612168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Finder may have been *acceptable* < 1253612171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but try web browsing < 1253612185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in what? icab? IE? < 1253612191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked perfectly, except for being CRIPPLINGLY SLOW in both UI and rendering (I mean like upwards of a minute to render a google page) in every browser I tried < 1253612192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if IE5, yes quite a pain < 1253612195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE, yeah < 1253612196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but icab was snappy too < 1253612198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is iCab better? < 1253612206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try web browsing with the Performa, where moving the mouse around makes download speeds drop dramatically. < 1253612213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but also sharware iirc < 1253612224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't care, everything on Mac OS was shareware < 1253612228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Stuffit Expander < 1253612257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shareware that refused to work at all one month after release date or something like that < 1253612263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had to download the last version < 1253612323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big whoop < 1253612341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think on the ibook download speed dropped when you had the mouse button down. but not when just moving it < 1253612362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polling. < 1253612363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was able to max my connection even over ethernet < 1253612380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cooperative multitasking too < 1253612383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I got pretty much modem speeds over the Ethernet. :p < 1253612383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1MB internet, or crazy Swedish >10MB net speeds? < 1253612385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253612388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1MB Ethernet, or crazy Swedish >10MB net speeds? < 1253612413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, more like 80 kbps, while I can get 720-780 kbps on my desktop < 1253612431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local over lan I don't remember < 1253612431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define kbps. < 1253612434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kibibytes? < 1253612451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown which the mac used. But on desktop yes < 1253612455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253612457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits < 1253612460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bytes < 1253612463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was to internet < 1253612468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kibibytes. < 1253612470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac had 100 mbps ethernet < 1253612471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 bytes. < 1253612476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilobits per second < 1253612480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 1024 yes < 1253612484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. The term is kibibytes. < 1253612486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look it up. < 1253612493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't care what you think about that < 1253612509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as you are mixing up bits and bytes anyway < 1253612520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/and/ < 1253612534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "kilobit" would be 1000 bits. < 1253612539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how the terminology works. < 1253612551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ethernet speeds are non-binary millions, though; I really think using the powers-of-10 prefixes in "Xbps" makes sense, since that's what they use there. < 1253612553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't care what your opinion on this is < 1253612555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, "kibibyte" is the official standard; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte. < 1253612569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobit notes no standardisation. < 1253612584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore "kilobit" is not only illogical (would seem to mean 1000 bits), it's non-standard. < 1253612606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Don't you start with "official standard" when you use a nonstandard "kiB" instead of the standard "KiB". :p < 1253612612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am considering that. < 1253612614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1253612639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would you call it my opinion, anyway? I never called it my opinion. < 1253612640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic vs. standard: the battle. < 1253612654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called it wrong and provided two reasons for it being so. < 1253612666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, point is my old mac was able to max out my slow 512 kilobit per second ADSL, but not my current 8 megabit per second < 1253612682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue if that is 1000 or 1024 < 1253612687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1000. < 1253612693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general I use kilo for 1024 myself < 1253612695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the decimal definition (1 kilobit per second = 1,000 bits per second) is used uniformly in the context of telecommunication transmission speeds" < 1253612701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I won't change < 1253612727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. anything to annoy ehird though < 1253612729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1253612747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find people committing suicide by bludgeoning their head against a wall repeatedly very annoying. < 1253612749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please oblige. < 1253612769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're going to have to start talking about your 500 kbps and 7.8125 Mbps ADSL links. < 1253612804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is theoretical speed. What I actually talk about is the speed that wget reports for good mirrors < 1253612816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop bringing logic into this. Also standardisation. AnMaster won't use any of those pesky things. < 1253612820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is currently around 760 KB/s at best < 1253612825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoosh? < 1253612834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the Performa the bus multiplexing thing was more of a problem; c.f. the http://lowendmac.com/roadapples/x200.shtml numbered list, point 3. < 1253612852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know about that *shudder* < 1253612873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ethernet card I had was in the comm slot, I think. < 1253612887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ibook had of course built in ethernet < 1253612891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1253612896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A comm slot modem disables the modem port; a comm slot ethernet card disables the printer port." < 1253612905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, that thing is so messed-up. < 1253612912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch yeah agreed < 1253612919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't remember it was quite that bad < 1253612936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet I still can't not like it. < 1253612944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253612953 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253612956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1253612996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somehow so endearing. Poor little Performa. < 1253613251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253613255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still have it? < 1253613283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the modem port... was it one of those softmodems? < 1253613295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name... geosomething < 1253613313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it for external modem? < 1253613336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I sold it. And it wasn't a geoport; I think the "modem port" is referring to the serial port it had, which was a very old-fashioned no-hardware-handshaking no-frills rs232 thing. < 1253613348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be wrong, though. < 1253613353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but with a round shape right? < 1253613370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253613378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIN-8 connector. < 1253613380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a performa that had a serial port but with a round connector < 1253613387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the usual PC serial port connector < 1253613420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The pins are compatible to the rs232 standard, I think, it's just the connector that's different. < 1253613427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253613492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/watson-karmic-20090909-3.png makes one want to get a SSD; it shows a Ubuntu Karmic Koala alpha version booting in five seconds on such a system. < 1253613533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, need to relocate myself, so will probably lose connection to bouncer and thus anything said since then. Due to forgetting to quit client at home before I left. < 1253613534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDs are like awesome. For your computer. < 1253613542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomeputer! < 1253613555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's some serious multitasking. < 1253613575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the goal for 10.04 is a 10-second boot, iirc, so that must come to like 3 seconds on an SSD... < 1253613599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that "upstart" parallelisizer thing, they claim Karmic's going to start using it really-for-real-now. < 1253613613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that pic shows xulrunner during book? Huh < 1253613625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot* < 1253613628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's starting Firefox, I think. < 1253613633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some browsery thing. < 1253613637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, during boot? Hehe < 1253613638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like we're also getting couchdb. < 1253613652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, couchdb might be for Firefox. < 1253613655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1253613658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and erlang too < 1253613658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XULRunner might be for couchdb. < 1253613663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beam.smp is erlang < 1253613669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CouchDB is written in Erlang. < 1253613674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1253613674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg starts there somewhere around 2-3 seconds. < 1253613676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that < 1253613693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl really this time < 1253613697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.10 will be great, but I think that 10.04 will see a lot of big changes... < 1253613718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 10.10 will come to polish them off. So I think the alliterative release will be when Ubuntu notches up the awesome a whole bunch. < 1253613757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We won't have one of those again until 2104. < 1253613765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming they don't change the schedule before then. :P < 1253613776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, I wonder why 6.06 wasn't in the 4/10 pattern. < 1253613788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Behind schedule. < 1253613796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just a guess, but they just might change it at some point during the next hundred years. < 1253613804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1253613807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am shocked. < 1253613819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Ubuntu-desktop-2-410-20080706.png < 1253613824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.10 sure was brown. < 1253613851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Karmic announcement mentioned considering a total new look and that "brown has served us well". < 1253613860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's obviously not happening, but I wonder if 10.04 might bring that. < 1253613866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what they've thought of. Please let it not be a dark theme. < 1253613903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that they've went a bit orange from that... what should I call it, "turd-brown" maybe. < 1253613910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/went/gone/ < 1253613919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My turds are... not that colour. < 1253613944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it is a bit orangey. < 1253613957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicorn turds look like rainbows. < 1253613968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1253613978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I hope they go for a unified titlebar/toolbar look. < 1253613988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda miss that from OS X, though it's pretty hard to do in GTK. < 1253614008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unity theme for Metacity and GTK handles it by making the window title the same colour as the whole window, which kinda sucks. < 1253614023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly I just wish they'd antialiase the window corners. < 1253614145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253614204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:58 Then 10.10 will come to polish them off. So I think the alliterative release will be when Ubuntu notches up the awesome a whole bunch. < 1253614205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1253614215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like all release so far? < 1253614218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name thing < 1253614248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number, I guess. < 1253614272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Replacement of Synaptic and other package management-related applications by Ubuntu Software Store is intended to take place in [Lucid Lynx]." < 1253614277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fancy. < 1253614285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1253614291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why replace < 1253614303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and store? what on earth... < 1253614306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synaptic sucks. < 1253614312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what about it? < 1253614318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, what do you mean about release/name? < 1253614323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10, 10. Alliterative. < 1253614354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "hardy h" kind of stuff < 1253614358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1253614363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same initial letter < 1253614372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10, 10. < 1253614377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1253614388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was no 4.04, so this'll be the first alliterative release. < 1253614411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore < 1253614412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synaptic is pretty awful, yes; and the fact that there's N graphical package-related things (Synaptic, that add/remove thing, the update manager thing, ...) is quite sucky too. I don't mind a little sensiblization. < 1253614417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes mockups and stuff. < 1253614429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add/Remove is for installing and removing applications, Synaptic is for managing packages. < 1253614436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a semi-sensible divide there. < 1253614442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't the jaunty jackelope or whatever it was called also alliterative? < 1253614447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, all release names are. < 1253614450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care. < 1253614459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, I thought you were referring to that < 1253614461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this new Store stuff is all based on PackageKit, which is yummy. < 1253614462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name sounds very modern, all mobile things have an "App Store" nowadays, so why not Ubuntu too. < 1253614530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Store is the best word; I'd expect more a for-pay Canonical-partners thing, which would be lame. < 1253614548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1253614550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the meaning was store as in storage-place, or store ala stall, but still. < 1253614561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely confusing.. < 1253614567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1253614577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is en:stall? < 1253614591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sv:stall is en:stable, so I first read that as "package stable" < 1253614603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implication is, like, a tiny little store, one-man sort of thing. < 1253614613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my Ubuntu just went "war". < 1253614615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again. < 1253614616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that. < 1253614624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, light pitch. < 1253614625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well en:stall is a technical flight term for "not going fast enough to keep flying" < 1253614626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waar < 1253614634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is a simplification) < 1253614652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your harddrive breaking down maybe < 1253614661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's from Ubuntu. < 1253614667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays the Sounds to see which it was.
< 1253614673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it goes away if you turn off sounds? < 1253614688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in there. Oh well, it only did it twice. < 1253614698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a living specification for the utility previously codenamed AppCenter." < 1253614702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a terrible rename. < 1253614706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the SoftwareStore wiki page has renamed categories into "Departments", such as you would find from a physical store; I guess they're driving for that sort of metaphor. Except you only shoplift and never pay. (Well, the word "shoplift" surprisingly isn't mentioned there.) < 1253614710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rename it to Application Centre. < 1253614718 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-hwqulmjjsvjdcvjw JOIN :#esoteric < 1253614721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1253614722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Created: 2005-08-29 by MatthewPaulThomas" < 1253614725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit old, then. < 1253614734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Copying ain't stealing! < 1253614738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But departments? < 1253614744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overly metaphoric fail. < 1253614750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1253614757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In application menus etc, the Store should appear as �Ubuntu Software Store�.]] < 1253614762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why put "Ubuntu" there? < 1253614764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know it's Ubuntu. < 1253614767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"get free software" and "store" < 1253614774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concept collision < 1253614779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a wonderful pamphlet given out in a hotel in Tallinn; the title was "Estonian police gives advice on pocket-picking". < 1253614787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1253614798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope Matthew Paul Thomas didn't write this whole thing as-is without it being mangled; his usability work is spot-on and he's done some great stuff for Canonical, but this is just terrible. < 1253614803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there were illustrated techniques and best places and so on for pocket-picking. < 1253614831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, notice start menu on a windows pc? Says "microsoft word" "microsoft visual studio" and so on < 1253614834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day, the kernel will merge with KDE. < 1253614840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not "ubuntu" there on ubuntu < 1253614844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, kthreadd and kwrite can live together in happiness! < 1253614846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aaargh < 1253614856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the analogy has some flaws yes < 1253614864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Software Store seems like an improvement in all areas but terminology. < 1253614874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it's a massive regression. < 1253614882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sudo apt-get < 1253614893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your point? < 1253614953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there is always apt-get around. for those who know how to use command line it is superior most of the time < 1253615004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253615021 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253615027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1253615029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I disagree strongly. < 1253615041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected you to do so < 1253615064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install does not integrate discovering new programs with installing them afterwards, it does not give me helpful descriptions of packages laid out in a way tailored for quick comprehension, ... < 1253615072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply has no advantages. < 1253615334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1253615346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, AnMaster agrees with me on the topic of usability. < 1253615351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that* IS unprecedented. < 1253615353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for when you know what you need however it is superior < 1253615368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say you are running configure and it complains about missing libfoo headers < 1253615378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you are in a terminal, obviously it is superior. < 1253615381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sudo apt-get install libfoo works < 1253615405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is just -dev at the end, sometimes it is versioned like libfoo-1 and libfoo-2 < 1253615422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few cases it is something like foo-dev instead < 1253615436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But outside of a terminal, "sudo apt-get install foopackagey" vs "foopackage" are pretty much equal. < 1253615442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I almost always have a terminal open < 1253615447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the graphical one probably has a nicer progress bar. < 1253615453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but if you don't know the exact name... < 1253615472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When running shell commands, apt-get wins. When you just want to install something you read about, or when you want to find a program, graphical wins. < 1253615482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, but you would need to search in your GUI package manager too < 1253615483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with Synaptic, though, since that's just a bag of hurt. < 1253615498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but the results are actually readable, as opposed to apt-cache search/apt-cache show. < 1253615504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And apt-cache's search doesn't even work well at all...) < 1253615511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, that would need a better CLI frontend < 1253615539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of hard to do things like make the package descriptions on a new line and more subtle when you can't change the font size. < 1253615540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering coding a simple wrapper script to format and colourise the output. Output would end up similar to eix output < 1253615563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1253615569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in a terminal. < 1253615573 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253615573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also kinda hard to bring up the extended description of a package in the middle of a scrollthrough if you have no clicking or anything. < 1253615588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, search would be regex based, again similar to eix. < 1253615602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can search on any metadata that exists < 1253615614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who searches with regex? I mostly do things like "wine dev" and "libfoo*". < 1253615621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is a pain with regex, the latter is slightly more verbose with regex. < 1253615625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really used anything more. < 1253615626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I search with regex a lot < 1253615633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1253615634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy and natural < 1253615651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do fuzzy match search and what not too with eix < 1253615658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some option < 1253615662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example regex-requiring search? < 1253615695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -- -mode$ < 1253615704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-mode < 1253615714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely any false positives. < 1253615718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would match foo-modebar too < 1253615721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253615725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but how common is that? < 1253615732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, do "wine dev" as a regex. < 1253615741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matches foowinebardev, devwine, winedev, wine--dev, ... < 1253615765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway wildcard is about as hard as regex to write but you have to remember to exclude the . in front of * as well < 1253615782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what you want to match with wine dev? < 1253615785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, only if you've been bludgeoned with a Koala and think of regex every second of the day. < 1253615789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I said, eix provides other searches too < 1253615793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wine and dev in any position, order and amount. < 1253615799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck, it'll be verbose as fuck. < 1253615799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freetext, fuzzy and so on < 1253615809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mu < 1253615880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1253615894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, your wonderful regex searches can't do the most basic of operations related to FINDING A PACKAGE. < 1253615896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above, eix supports more than regex. Just regex is default. < 1253615907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're touting regex search as amazingly awesome. < 1253615927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and they are, of course for some type of searching other variants will be better < 1253615934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like the most common type. < 1253615937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never disputed that < 1253615942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that I dispute however < 1253615957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "searches" depend on almost exactly knowing what kind of damn package you want. < 1253615962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the WINE development stuff. < 1253615971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time I'm looking for some specific package name < 1253615974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wine dev". What else am I to type, what expression is more natural, obvious or quicker? < 1253615980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're not "searching". < 1253616003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I'm searching for what exactly the package is. gtk or libgtk? < 1253616012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even likgtk++ or libgtk-2.0 < 1253616018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1253616024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1253616047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here the current search facility on ubuntu are kind of crap in the GUI tool < 1253616064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to give lots of unrelated gtk stuff, where gtk is in description < 1253616073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one I want is far below < 1253616134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while looking for ^libgtk and if that fails gtk in _package name only_ still may find some unrelated packages, but far fewer < 1253616202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache search --names-only ^libgtk < 1253616204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit verbose < 1253616212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to eix ^libgtk < 1253616234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on gentoo it is actually named gtk++ iirc) < 1253616242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still, fairly reasonable second guess) < 1253616268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk++? It's not gtk++. < 1253616269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gtk+. < 1253616279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry yeah, typoed < 1253616304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it looks like the T60p has the same graphics card as this machine, the X1600, except BIOS-modded for CAD/3D pro apps sort of thing. < 1253616311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upside: Powerful. < 1253616313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downside: drivers. < 1253616314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253616316 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253616318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep doing that < 1253616319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1253616319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1253616330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop pressing whatever key combo you used there < 1253616335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-w < 1253616344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would you end up pressing that < 1253616360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to close a tab that i failed to alt-tab to because of light prsesing < 1253616362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in xchat atm, for example < 1253616368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253616375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my browser < 1253616383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pressing < 1253616386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, wrong app too < 1253616387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1253616395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-tab to firefox, ctrl-w to close. < 1253616402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253616413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253616414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1253616415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to epiphany < 1253616417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<3 epiphany) < 1253616425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this particular case "apt-cache search ^libgtk" is likely to find only what you want; there aren't that many packages whose descriptions would start with "libgtk". < 1253616446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/10908.jpg < 1253616454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That windows key there sure is small. < 1253616455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you use znc you can set a channel to sticky to make it auto rejoin your client on part and never forward the part to the server < 1253616457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And alt, too. < 1253616471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The downside of adding a windows key... < 1253616484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true. < 1253616488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the FlexView screen on the 15" is; IPS? < 1253616497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is inherently sticky, hurr hurr. < 1253616508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1253616510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? I like to be able to part easily < 1253616518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, Flexview is IPS. < 1253616522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee. < 1253616526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notebook could have an IPS screen! < 1253616534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes forgot you did < 1253616543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I keep pressing Fn instead of ctrl on the notebook < 1253616555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pry it off. :P < 1253616563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, I use fn too < 1253616623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The left one, then. < 1253616629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use the right one. Oh, there is none. < 1253616629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253616679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is here < 1253616685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is next to arrow keys < 1253616691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smaller < 1253616708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is on that pic too < 1253616737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1253616755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, space, altgr, menu, ctrl, arrow keys < 1253616766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1253616767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the right ctrl < 1253616767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no right fn key < 1253616774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thought you meant ctrl < 1253616777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1253616781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pry left fn key off so no typos, use right :P < 1253616824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 15" 1600x1200 IPS laptop screen y/n < 1253616834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:3, ofc < 1253616835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fn can't really be remapped, it is "special" in BIOS or something, stuff like Fn-PgUp doesn't ever reach the OS. And it works even before OS is booted < 1253616851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Fn combos reach the OS though < 1253616908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, 1600x1200 is actually more pixels than I have now. < 1253616921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253616924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving up 80 pixels horizontally for 150 pixels vertically? Sign me up. < 1253616926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I said y/n. < 1253616942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, R < 1253616944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or A < 1253616949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe C < 1253616950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal error < 1253616952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt aborted < 1253616952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253616972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I crashed ehird :D < 1253616980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay not found < 1253616982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install it, please run: < 1253616986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo yum install yay < 1253616987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253616992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoami < 1253616996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1253616997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1253617018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I'm over 18 < 1253617018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# this should show me uid < 1253617041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It was a joke. < 1253617049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# I know :P < 1253617058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (Try id again) < 1253617062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1253617068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I'm under 20 < 1253617068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's mangled that message here to say "ask your administrator". (Or at least I've seen the sudo variant earlier.) < 1253617074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ mc < 1253617074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'mc' is currently not installed. To run 'mc' please ask your administrator to install the package 'mc' < 1253617085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh. < 1253617087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo shutdown -h now < 1253617088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Debian or Ubuntu? < 1253617096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Systems going for halt... < 1253617099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing all processes... < 1253617100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 8.10. < 1253617100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# wait, god wouldn't need to su < 1253617103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing pesky processes... < 1253617106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting. < 1253617111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**UPS FATAL INTERRUPTION** < 1253617113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**RESTARTING** < 1253617115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1253617122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreboot version FreeAsInRMS < 1253617124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booting Linux... < 1253617127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuietKernel v2 < 1253617134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1253617135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root login: autologin < 1253617135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# what a crappy security < 1253617175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# I'm not planning on anyone hacking my brain < 1253617191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /proc/mounts < 1253617192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's sort of nice to wake up after being unconscious < 1253617207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 < 1253617207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ok that is fail, /proc claims not to be mounted itself < 1253617235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's a magical rootfs. < 1253617240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's the default message, it just checks sudoers. < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if posix.geteuid() == 0: < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("You can install it by typing:") < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, "apt-get install %s" % packages[0][0] < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif self.user_can_sudo: < 1253617243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# with uniponies < 1253617244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("You can install it by typing:") < 1253617244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, "sudo apt-get install %s" % packages[0][0] < 1253617247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else: < 1253617247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("To run '%(command)s' please ask your administrator to install the package '%(package)s'") % {'command': command, 'package': packages[0][0]} < 1253617249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Uniponies indeed. < 1253617261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's Linux 2.7, circa 2175. < 1253617267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf / < 1253617272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl need to eat < 1253617274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs: No. < 1253617274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 1600x1200 @ 15" is 133 PPI, which is rather worryingly dense. < 1253617950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "dense" joke begging to be made there. < 1253618039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why the term ppi rather than dpi? < 1253618047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is more common < 1253618141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pixels" is more descriptive than "dots", though. < 1253618214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPI has some vague print-related connotations. < 1253618221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dots on a paper and all. < 1253618334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenMoko screen is 282 PPI, that's pretty intdense. (Intensely dense, you grok?) < 1253618438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh read it as "points" not "pixels" < 1253618447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253618478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as opposed to floatdense? < 1253618544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would be too dense. < 1253618601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, signed or unsigned denseness? < 1253618653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to interpret a negative pixel density value. < 1253618669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1253618737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if unicode as special symbols for the outlined R. As in R meaning real numbers < 1253618747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it had < 1253618755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Z_+ too < 1253618802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, not with the +. < 1253618837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least ℕ, ℙ, ℚ, ℝ and ℤ. < 1253618881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also similarly double-struck pi and gamma (both small and capital), and double-struck italic D, d, e, i, j. < 1253618884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\mathbb{Z}_{+} < 1253618917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℤ₊ < 1253618923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a subscript and superscript +. < 1253618936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice. Looks like a blur at this size though < 1253618945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm really close to display < 1253619009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a double-struck H, ℍ. < 1253619030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and ℂ, of course. < 1253619108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the H one for? < 1253619116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quaternions, at least. < 1253619124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, never used them < 1253619195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite sure what ℙ would commonly be used for; the others (ℕ, ℤ, ℚ, ℝ and ℂ) are those well-known sets. < 1253619225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And D, d, e, i, j? < 1253619226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know of them of course < 1253619271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: e is often the Neper e, and i, j both are used for the imaginary unit. < 1253619284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And D, d for differential. < 1253619287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course, but double-struck? < 1253619294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j for imaginary unit? < 1253619296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, double-struck and italic. < 1253619297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253619311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Electric engineers seem to have a habit for using j. < 1253619332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen those double-struck, but if you say so. < 1253619336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any reason except to cause confusion? < 1253619363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, same < 1253619363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think Mathematica uses the double-struck e. < 1253619370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh ok < 1253619379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Mathematica uses them, but I always just thought it was on crack. :-P < 1253619392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For i as well, at least.) < 1253619405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I haven't seen them anywhere else either. :p < 1253619433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's to avoid confusion with i(t), electrical current. < 1253619442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, what Deewiant said. < 1253619453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1253619457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although why they can't write I(t) is beyond me. < 1253619475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could be confused with 1? < 1253619477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on font < 1253619499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use 'j' in MATLAB because I like 'i' as a loop variable. < 1253619500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, though I think that's lame. :-P < 1253619504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, until I learned about abs(), the 1 I wrote were just straight lines < 1253619511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:s < 1253619514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1253619545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always written them with that serif at the top < 1253619578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes more time < 1253619599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's that convention re the casedness. < 1253619613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All of these symbols are expressed using capital letters, except in cases where a quantity (especially voltage or current) is described in terms of a brief period of time (called an "instantaneous" value). For example, the voltage of a battery, which is stable over a long period of time, will be symbolized with a capital letter "E," while the voltage peak of a lightning strike at the very instant it hits a power line would most likely be symbolized with a < 1253619613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lower-case letter "e" (or lower-case "v") to designate that value as being at a single moment in time. This same lower-case convention holds true for current as well, the lower-case letter "i" representing current at some instant in time. Most direct-current (DC) measurements, however, being stable over time, will be symbolized with capital letters. " < 1253619614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have something legible than fast < 1253619620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl for a few hours. course begins soon < 1253619623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, class < 1253619624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253619628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bbl < 1253619641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right. < 1253619667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might abuse the differential syntax and call it dI(t), then. < 1253619688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the rate of change of I, though, not the instantaneous value of it. < 1253619702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that's what it'd look like. < 1253619709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that'd be dI/dt :-P < 1253619765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, in all seriousness I'd probably call it all I(t) by default regardless of whether it's a peak or not. < 1253619783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably, but it's a bit too late now. < 1253619801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, as usual. < 1253619888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Python uses j too? < 1253619902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagnumber ::= (floatnumber | intpart) ("j" | "J") < 1253619910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it does, then. < 1253620046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in C99 #defines 'I' for it. < 1253620158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More exactly, I expands either to _Imaginary_I or _Complex_I, depending on whether the first one is defined or not; it's optional, unlike _Complex_I. (Both are macros that expand to "a such-and-such constant expression".) < 1253620197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my case "I" -> "_Complex_I" -> "(__extension__ 1.0iF)". < 1253620352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, ℙ is "of course" the set of prime numbers. < 1253620803 0 :jix!n=jix@95.33.79.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253621193 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253621298 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253621627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, why the term ppi rather than dpi? < 1253621628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixels. < 1253621762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, 133 might be just a bit too much. < 1253621822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I like my pixels, but with bitmaps and stuff being so common, something not too far to the-dpi-that-96-is-from-a-chair-looking-at-a-monitor-remapped-to-being-closer-due-to-being-a-notebook is best. < 1253621849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LinuxCon 2009 Linux creator Linus Torvalds says the open source kernel has become "bloated and huge," with no midriff-slimming diet plan in sight." < 1253621851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- El Reg < 1253621952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Okay, so the summary of this is that you expect that 12 per cent to be back to where it should be next year, and you expect someone else to come up with a plan to do it," joked Bottomley. "That's open source."" < 1253622041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253622071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the T60p seems like the bset notebook ever. < 1253622096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I want me one of those. Looks like they were super-expensive when they came out, though; hope that's improved. < 1253622109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*best < 1253622173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there's still that pesky driver problem, it having essentially the same card as this machine. < 1253622211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radeon/ati is so fucking ridiculously slow, new fglrx (the only version working with this X11 version) doesn't support it, and radeonhd doesn't even work < 1253622224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because the X1600 isn't a Radeon HD < 1253622238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no; it's supposedly supported, but it doesn't work. < 1253622239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1253622251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The situation here is pretty awful so that's worrying. < 1253622555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radeonhd has never worked for me; isn't it pretty experimental still. < 1253622590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I tried it just because jeez radeon is crap. < 1253622605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be perfectly happy if fglrx hadn't fucking dropped support for this popular circa-2006 card. < 1253622904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also the issue of where the hell am I gonna get this...) < 1253623669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn Vala and hack on that GNOME IRC client. < 1253623681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could elaborate on the esoteric spreadsheet idea, which is easier. < 1253623920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Running Mobile Mark 2005, the T60p managed an impressive five hours 20 minutes of battery life, compared to three hours 41 minutes on the Acer. DVD playback was also good with a time of four hours 20 minutes - enough time to watch a Lord of the Rings special edition if you wished." < 1253623955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say +1.5hr ultrabay = 6h50m and 5h50m < 1253624049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes. response time on the flexview is 30ms < 1253626238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, apparently after Lucid Lynx Ubuntu's switching to GNOME 3. < 1253626472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you become twisted hacks?" - El Reg commnt < 1253626474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comment < 1253626873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the Mystic Meerkat 10.10 name suggestion. < 1253626937 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253626938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Umm, don't you read Linus flamebait and reddit comments? We know what 10.10 will be called < 1253626942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masturbating Monkey < 1253627044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Image results for 'masturbating monkey'" -- in this particular instance, I'm not sure I appreciate Google's desire to be helpful. < 1253627062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 < 1253627062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1253627081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm sec < 1253627102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1253627109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6s1p7/linus_called_openbsd_developers_what/ < 1253627220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You call your penis 'Verizon calculator?'" < 1253627311 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etc.firefly.nu/css/quine.html <-- :D < 1253627323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: beautiful < 1253627327 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1253627338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/topaz/ ;; holy fuck! Someone has basically *exactly* the same ideas as me for computing. < 1253627349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious. < 1253627555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coinflation.com/about.html -- "How would you use [the word coinflation] in a sentence? -- My wife uses the word in a sentence all the time, 'Quit working on your stupid coinflation website and let's go out for Chinese food.'" < 1253627581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253627867 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253627874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253627905 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come up with some Snusp-related stuff, and I'd like to put it online, and I'm not sure how to go about it < 1253627923 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come up with about 5 extensions to the language < 1253627940 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253627948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1253627953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a new page, link to SNUSP, go wild < 1253627955 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a way to specify inside a snusp program what set of features to use < 1253627963 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1253627965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that matter? < 1253627973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it'd be easier to have an interpreter switch < 1253627978 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering whether to make a new page or add the the SNUSP one < 1253627990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new one < 1253628022 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people might want lots of language features, others might want to restrict what the language can do < 1253628098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think small :) < 1253628113 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, you can have numeric literals, but some people might prefer to use plusses and loops to get their numbers because the instructions set is minimalistic that way < 1253628233 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1253628604 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253629684 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253631327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, I like my pixels, but with bitmaps and stuff being so common, something not too far to the-dpi-that-96-is-from-a-chair-looking-at-a-monitor-remapped-to-being-closer-due-to-being-a-notebook is best. <-- there are svg icon sets and such iirc < 1253631337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but think about the web < 1253631344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gnome uses SVG icons pretty much everywhere) < 1253631397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1253631406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that explains why they look so smooth < 1253631410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 133 PPI is quite a lot. < 1253631414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think KDE 4 does too. < 1253631419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1253631422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was like that when they were pngs too, I think. Maybe. < 1253631429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.svg icons are clearly The Right Thing, though. < 1253631440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the less smooth look of classical bitmap based icon sets < 1253631444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less gradients < 1253631458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more natural looking sometimes < 1253631475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixel art looks cute at first, but I find that looking at such icons I just see the jagged edges and highly-contrasted borders and miss the icon. < 1253631495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But fwiw, the Tango icon standards (which is obeyed pretty wildly Gnomeways) pretty much say "Don't make it shiny, stupid!". < 1253631503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3 is really, terribly bad at that < 1253631509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything shines and is cartoony < 1253631532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should probably learn Vala and hack on that GNOME IRC client. <-- Vala? < 1253631557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Vala is sort of like C#, made minimalist and cleaned up, and made to work with GObject. < 1253631561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's GObject the language. < 1253631571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yikes. response time on the flexview is 30ms <-- sounds high. What is this flexview? < 1253631583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., write native-code GNOME software without extra dependencies or a runtime, and free yourself from the awful GObject C calls. < 1253631595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Flexview is the IPS (because it has a wide viewing angle). < 1253631608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer ThinkPad displays are like 16ms and some older ones 25ms. < 1253631611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're all quite slow. < 1253631614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253631622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nothing you usually notice < 1253631635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games. < 1253631660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, thinkpads aren't really for gamers I'd say < 1253631661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30ms is 33Hz, if I'm calculating that right. < 1253631687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't matter what the target market is; the T60p has a decent graphics card, an excellent CPU and you can bash a load of RAM in there. < 1253631716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and IPS? < 1253631718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253631722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's optional. < 1253631728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The graphics card is the pro version, tuned for CAD etc. < 1253631742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mobile workstation" (except it's thin, light and has good battery life) < 1253631746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the Flexview I'm capped to 33fps, which is ridiculous. < 1253631747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pixel art looks cute at first, but I find that looking at such icons I just see the jagged edges and highly-contrasted borders and miss the icon. <-- only if upscaled. After all svg will be rendered to such pixels too < 1253631759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, svg generally antialiases < 1253631768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More recent ThinkPads can do 66fps, which is hunky dory. < 1253631771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing prevents antialias in pixel icons < 1253631775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is often applied even < 1253631778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly lesser-looking models can manage 40fps, which is fine. < 1253631786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I really like the less smooth look of classical bitmap based icon sets" < 1253631787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less smooth < 1253631790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was responding to that < 1253631800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latency doesn't come out as FPS does it? < 1253631805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm not sure I can accept 33fps, even if it should work quite well outside. < 1253631810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, latency could be high FPS, just delayed a bit < 1253631811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1 second / foo ms = fps < 1253631825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Response time = how long a pixel takes to change from colour one to colour two. < 1253631828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like bandwidth vs. latency < 1253631834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not, you're talking crap. < 1253631835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about it. < 1253631836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1253631843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is latency on top of that too < 1253631849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, processing time for gpu < 1253631854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. < 1253631857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically < 1253631866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrons are pretty fast, y'know. < 1253631881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah and cable length is far from enough for it to matter < 1253631887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I finished reading the Ubuntu Software Store article. Great UI. < 1253631899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ha! Spoken like someone who has never used a Lisp Machine. < 1253631907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 33 fps will still look smooth for video and such won't it? < 1253631910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, those were so noisy we started getting cable latency just to save our ears from certain death! < 1253631917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes; movies are 24fps. < 1253631918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all PAL has some pretty low number iirc < 1253631927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really fast window moving might blur a bit. < 1253631933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Ha! Spoken like someone who has never used a Lisp Machine. ? < 1253631937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC is 29.99997 or somethin. < 1253631940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1253631943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: re cable length latency < 1253631943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253631945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253631955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, for games it's pushing i. < 1253631957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1253631963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really game, but... < 1253631973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of irritating. < 1253631989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how long cable would you need for that effect? < 1253632009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm. Very, very long. < 1253632016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we're talking electrons here, man. < 1253632087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but that seems insane < 1253632097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be several hundred meters at least right? < 1253632103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way more. < 1253632115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that is silly for ear protection < 1253632161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never actually hear them if you keep them under your desk, but that's because your ears are immediately irrevocably damaged. < 1253632217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean, something like two rooms away with thick walls should be enough < 1253632226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking, jesus christ. < 1253632233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok < 1253632235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1253632238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...>_< < 1253632491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott's First Principle of Software Development: Naming is not only the most important part of a software project (see Knuth), but it is also the hardest. < 1253632539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very true < 1253632553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Elliott's Twenty-Third Principle of Software Development: You do NOT want separate document and tool windows. Don't believe me? One word: GIMP.) < 1253632558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My principles are terribly specific. < 1253632655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Glade.
< 1253632682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if they've managed to make a GUI designer that doesn't suck! < 1253632989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1253633043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? :( < 1253633063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require a toolkit that doesn't suck < 1253633070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is physically impossible < 1253633074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be pedantic about it, the electrons aren't really moving all that fast, just the signals. < 1253633086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i don't think gtk sucks *massively* < 1253633092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1253633093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, glade at least isn't much to do with gtk programming, I'd say < 1253633096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still sucks < 1253633099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the obvious stuff like signals, I presume < 1253633102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, everything sucks < 1253633105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a useless metric < 1253633128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things don't suck < 1253633133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hair dryers, for instance < 1253633134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likd < 1253633138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1253633138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur hur < 1253633193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hair dryers, for instance <-- they do when they are on too high heat :P < 1253633211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean like that < 1253633211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1253633219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1253633221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a matter of fact they do, at the other end) < 1253633235 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies!!1! < 1253633749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253633756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION explodes
< 1253633836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION explodes if ehird didn't
< 1253633928 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90e3f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fegszyuszbijydlo JOIN :#esoteric < 1253635084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know that macbook portable that had two dints where only one was needed for the trackball? < 1253635087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move it to either side < 1253635090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm serious < 1253635310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I change a setting and suddenly Compiz is running all smooth. < 1253635362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1253635371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about both < 1253635374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what setting < 1253635390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about both"? < 1253635430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "moving mouse", "changing setting" < 1253635442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, in the macintosh portable < 1253635443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1253635444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1253635445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1253635446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1253635451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the two dents next to screen < 1253635456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said why two dents, one is enough for the trackball < 1253635486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know < 1253635488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253635494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I went heh at first < 1253635506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I decided to go heh at the changing setting in compiz < 1253635508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253635512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was < 1253635514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about both, what setting" < 1253635528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, compiz thought my monitor was 50 Hz, it's 60 < 1253635532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, enabled Sync to VBlank < 1253635538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no the left side is "hahaha" and the right is "ahahah" < 1253635604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253635623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, forget it < 1253635849 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253636225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file foo < 1253636225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: Linux rev 1.0 ext2 filesystem data, UUID=3275a8a0-7d52-4ab0-b58d-d799e9b0bf3c < 1253636229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested filesystems~! < 1253636421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun to set up an md5sum on it and watch it change < 1253636441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggested filesystem feature: directories are just filesystem files < 1253636770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In that release to come in a year, that is when Canonical will begin selling select software from the Ubuntu Software Store." < 1253636771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1253636772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1253636773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1253636991 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-164.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253637010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kidlings < 1253637024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidlings < 1253637045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253637055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidPINGGGGGGGGGGGGS < 1253637065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pings ehird
< 1253637075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm underage. < 1253637082 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1253637915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI design sure ain't easy < 1253639178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should make it a kde app, so i can drop all pretenses of usability, simplicity and design :) < 1253640185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "In that release to come in a year, that is when Canonical will begin selling select software from the Ubuntu Software Store." <-- sounds like I should plan changing distro < 1253640207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. The distro will still be FOSS. < 1253640218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1253640219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably disableable too. But it IS really obnoxious. < 1253640241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think they'd just ask Shuttleworth for another couple million. < 1253640245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could argue that one shouldn't support that sort of obnoxious behaviour < 1253640263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about when shuttleworth dies in some years < 1253640263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253640295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in roughly 39 years? < 1253640299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... not too worried about that. < 1253640309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, inheritance. Also, I'm sure they'll come up with a business model by then. < 1253640316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they probably won't even exist then. < 1253640319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know how old he is, plus there could be an accident or something < 1253640325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's 36. < 1253640329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253640336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car crash? < 1253640343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's too rich to have a car crash :-P < 1253640385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then, private jet crash? < 1253640387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaceship crash, maybe. :p < 1253640392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or that yeah :P < 1253640406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rich people have a protective buffer of money around them at all times. < 1253640408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic! < 1253640443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can actually program, which is cool. < 1253640452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'd think him a bit too... I don't know, rich. < 1253640497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, the Mark Shuttleworth wikipedia bio page uses the {{Infobox Astronaut ...}} box. < 1253640527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253640536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, no human has ever been born in outer space. < 1253640555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The citizenship fight there would be fun < 1253640575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name shuttleworth... what with the space shuttles and everything it made me wonder if his name has any connection to it < 1253640583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read that just as "no human has ever been in outer space", had a "what, ehird's one of the moon landing deniers?" moment there. < 1253640583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :P < 1253640591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. Also the ISS. < 1253640597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also everything NASA has ever done ever. < 1253640598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253640642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't it be similar to being born on international water while on a cruise or something < 1253640651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but much cooler. < 1253640666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was born in international waters" ==> "your parents are boring sailor fags" < 1253640672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was born in space" ==> "SPACE!" < 1253640691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He lived in Smuts Hall, where he was involved in the installation of the first residential Internet connections at the university." <-- hah. sv:smuts is en:dirt so that looked really strange < 1253640710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smurf Hall. < 1253640716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I was born in international waters" ==> "your parents are boring sailor fags" <-- is "in" really the right preposition? < 1253640728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be, just sounds strange to me < 1253640730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Water birth, clearly. < 1253640734 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ErroneousDonk < 1253640749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CorrectKond < 1253640759 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: We must fight to the death. < 1253640789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular culture reference? < 1253640805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only possible explanation I can think of < 1253640855 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: what < 1253640884 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: you are the erroneous donk of... uh, kruut. < 1253640893 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the correct kond of tuurk. < 1253640898 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1253640899 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot possibly exist in the same universe. < 1253640917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253640920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253640937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses bad super hero comic from the "strange period"
< 1253640951 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bludgeons AnMaster with antimatter
< 1253640959 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bludgeons ErroneousDonk with a club
< 1253641037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the spam directory. Subject: Don't read < 1253641108 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Absolutely no free member enhancers here, nosiree. We do have viagra though." < 1253641156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond, it was just junk inside, like very often. it seems they put junk in the normal part and then the real spam in the html part < 1253641156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I disable html mails < 1253641278 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dies
< 1253641309 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION revives ErroneousDonk
< 1253641316 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bludgeons ErroneousDonk some more, for good measure
< 1253641324 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do it < 1253641397 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253641621 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253641710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN MATHS QUIZ! < 1253641722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that a course starts on 28 September 2009 and lasts a minimum of 72 months and a maximum of 48 months: < 1253641728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) in which month does it end? < 1253641732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) how many different helpdesks did I have to contact before getting the correct answer? < 1253641750 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the range is obviously ... what's inclusive and exclusive? < 1253641751 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ or ( < 1253641764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: the range is obviously incorrect < 1253641765 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget. < 1253641770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's inclusive, but it doesn't really matter < 1253641776 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, I forget the symbol < 1253641784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ is inclusive, ( is exclusive < 1253641802 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'm tool azy < 1253641806 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to be ridiculous, but < 1253641809 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was going < 1253641811 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too lazy < 1253641833 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we know that a >= 72 and a <= 48 < 1253641835 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O shi-- < 1253641853 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to invent a new number system. < 1253641857 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the surreals do that? < 1253641865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(extra fun: at least one of the answers I was given was "January 2015") < 1253641902 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: go ping yourself < 1253641925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: what's with the nick change, btw? < 1253641932 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see logs. < 1253641939 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1253641940 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1253641985 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1253641990 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kond isn't Donk reversed < 1253642039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is about as complete as cygwin. < 1253642055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misread that as * ehird is about as complete as cygwin
< 1253642065 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin-complete < 1253642096 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow IE7 is bad, especially at rendering Slashdot < 1253642116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and firewalls that block port 6667 outbound are annoying < 1253642128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use Mibbit to get on IRC from that connection < 1253642134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now, I can't get onto freenode at all from it < 1253642146 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't freenode block mibbit? < 1253642148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253642150 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In favour of their own web client < 1253642155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a web client < 1253642158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Java IRC client < 1253642162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to be hosted on a website < 1253642170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only thing it has to do with the web is that's how you access it < 1253642213 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right < 1253642245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, going back to logs, apt-get install has one advantage: it's a pretty quick way of installing repository packages from the command line when you already know which one you want < 1253642251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In favour of their IRC client hosted on their own servers, with a serverside backend and web frontend < 1253642253 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better? < 1253642285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253642309 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't any serverside at all < 1253642323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the usual IRC servers < 1253642329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an IRC client < 1253642333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosted on a website < 1253642339 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the freenode one? < 1253642365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253642369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an IRC client written in Java < 1253642379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose only advantage over any other is that it doesn't involve installing an IRC client < 1253642380 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webchat.freenode.net/ <-- Doesn't look like Java to me < 1253642390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found a different one < 1253642394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on freenode.net < 1253642395 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very much like XHR to me < 1253642397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really confusing... < 1253642398 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1253642422 0 :ais523_freenodew!i=93bcfe7c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hizpnwabbuxizuzf JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642433 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this one doesn't feel like Java at all, you're right < 1253642436 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to use it next time < 1253642437 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253642462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Lucid Lynx the actual name, btw? < 1253642466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a placeholder? < 1253642511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : suggested filesystem feature: directories are just filesystem files < 1253642513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had that idea < 1253642516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back < 1253642523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for things like zipfiles < 1253642531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use them as directories, and you got their contents < 1253642549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really old versions of DOS used to work like that, but without the usability < 1253642589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: I've read the logs, and I /still/ don't get the reason for the nicks... < 1253643091 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253643498 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643659 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-34-65.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, we know that a >= 72 and a <= 48 < 1253643693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O shi-- < 1253643698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define that kind of < 1253643711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in module a number larger than 73 < 1253643719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo* < 1253643733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a crazy definition yeah < 1253643883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think about that definiton? < 1253643896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater-than doesn't really work with modulo < 1253643925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. But greater than 72, less than 48 in modulo 100 would be somewhere between 72 and 100 or 0 and 42 < 1253643927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253643930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48* < 1253643938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1253643956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, if you use the modular definition, modulo 12 is the sensible one < 1253643959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's months in a year < 1253643966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd conclude that the course would end in September < 1253643974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why the January 2015 option came as such a surprise < 1253643974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253643983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah indeed < 1253644018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't aware when it started though < 1253644047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how can a course not be exactly a specific length? < 1253644092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a specific length, just the computers disagree on what that is < 1253644097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what it is < 1253644103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "max/min"? < 1253644122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in actual fact, both are supposed to be 48; the 72 was an error < 1253644128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one that I've spent 2 days now trying to correct < 1253644132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, h < 1253644134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah* < 1253644192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why did you give min 72, max 48, not the other way around? < 1253644208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it shows some computer system had a range for possible values < 1253644208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that's the way round it was on the computer < 1253644218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which caused all sorts of hilarious side-effects < 1253644219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a course isn't a specific length? < 1253644228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can vary < 1253644234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it seems that computer program allows for variable-length courses < 1253644258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253645345 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253646962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lucid Lynx is the actual name, yes. < 1253647109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very recently announced; last weekend, I think. < 1253647595 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253647920 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253650485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253650500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any fullfledged debugger with stepping and inspecting variables for python? < 1253650511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1253650784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a graphical python debugger screenshot in someone's door at work, as a "in vacation" note, but I don't know what the debugger was. < 1253650822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "on vacation", but anyway. < 1253651052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253651147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok found a few in gentoo portage < 1253651198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(need it on gentoo since I can't reproduce the issue easily elsewhere due to the software setup I need to debug being highly non-trivial to relocate) < 1253651716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb this looks mad < 1253651741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if it does the job < 1253651901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253652579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great the thing crashes because the server sends < 1253652590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hope you HTML5 nuts are happy < 1253652612 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What thing? < 1253652728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, pywikipediabot on a wiki < 1253652752 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, oki < 1253652757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on a wikimedia operated one) < 1253652795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very happy with that debugger, but it did the job < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/rpdb2.py:308: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : import sets < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/rpdb2.py:313: DeprecationWarning: The popen2 module is deprecated. Use the subprocess module. < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : import popen2 < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/_core.py:14448: UserWarning: wxPython/wxWidgets release number mismatch < 1253652800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : warnings.warn("wxPython/wxWidgets release number mismatch") < 1253652802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the debugger prints when it starts < 1253652804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253652818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term "bitrot" comes to mind < 1253654716 0 :froggyman!n=chatzill@pool-72-69-88-109.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253655665 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253657384 0 :froggyman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253658421 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253658898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253658989 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-164.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253660195 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253660264 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253660341 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661084 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253661089 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-065-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661380 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253661494 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a Brainf*** interpreter in Befunge, but I can't get it to work < 1253661515 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seems mtve also found it recently according to the comments) < 1253661522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/09/two-dimensional_pathology_befu.php < 1253661603 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1253662249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1253662257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot figure the damn thing out!
< 1253662309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: What is numeric range for interpretter you are using? < 1253662428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, does it have to be a special bignum interpreter? < 1253662464 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It says so. < 1253662470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I see now < 1253662488 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the exact same one from mtve's page, apparently < 1253662501 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: AFAIK, Befunge-93 is TC only with bignums. Befunge-98 can be made to be TC without them. < 1253662531 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO ESPERANTO IN THIS CHANNEL < 1253662572 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253662787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, not mtve's page but the discussion page on Esolang Wiki, I think (NathanC's work, IIRC) < 1253662809 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡CHIUKANALE NE ESPERANTACHU! < 1253662921 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be interesting to write befunge-98 BF interpretter (no fingerprints, all numbers bounded) < 1253662950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think fungot's ^bf uses any fingerprints, really. < 1253662951 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' yes, archchancellor?" said carrot. < 1253662971 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: I haven't :-P < 1253662984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean befunge-98 implemented in brainfuck? It's not immediately obvious from that. < 1253663009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make more sense that way around. < 1253663016 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most BF progs don't need more than 32-bits, do they? so it should still be possible for a modest pseudo-BF interpreter in B93, right?? < 1253663026 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BF implemented in Befunge-98, no fingerprints, number range bounded. < 1253663049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ^bf has that, except it has a tape length limit too, but it would be trivial to make it unlimited. < 1253663056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And number range is bounded to [0, 255]. < 1253663246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a standalone version of the Underload interpreter -- or to be exact, I wrote the Underload interpreter as a standalone program and then only later integrated it in fungot -- but the brainfuck one is only available as a part of http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 -- lines ~350-372 turn a brainfuck program into a bytecode of sorts, and lines 294-306 execute that. < 1253663246 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ridcully glared for scum, even clapping his hands over his face. < 1253663297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1253663394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be exact about it, the Befunge-98 funge-space isn't infinite either, because vector coordinates are limited to the cell size, so there's only 2^128 locations available in total. But you should be able to do a real infinite tape out of the stack-stack operations, I think we talked about this at some point. < 1253663420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you happen to have a bignum Befunge-98.) < 1253663511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And bignum Befunge-93 would be TC anyway... < 1253663603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But with the stack-stack "u" a real tape is trivial even in a non-bignum Funge-98. < 1253663777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The classic "Befunge-93 interpreter in Befunge-93" is nice, too; http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/befbef.bf < 1253663790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the playfield for the interpreted code is a bit smaller. < 1253663933 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve's is better (smaller) < 1253663937 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only six lines, IIRC < 1253663954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/code/eso/bef/bef_bef/ < 1253663990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a lot of whitespace in the classic befbef.