< 1254528166 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254528322 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone tried OS/2? < 1254529370 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:40:16] "tab bars on the bottom" made me think of http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif < 1254529374 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly confusing UI there < 1254529627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, doesn't Anonym.OS pretend to be Win98? < 1254529671 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What relevance has this statement? < 1254529689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That some websites see Win98 in their statistics < 1254529692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On occasion < 1254529703 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All those "lol sekurity" distros are retarded; single point of failure? You fail at security! Create this single point just to install Tor and GPG? You fail at life!) < 1254529708 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but Windows 95? < 1254529738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "Windows 98" is a reasonable thing to pretend to be, why not Win95? Maybe there still are a few 95 users out there < 1254529765 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the system is designed to look like Windows XP SP1" < 1254529775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254529778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mistaken < 1254529780 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Anonym.OS is probably rarer than using 95, anyway. < 1254529813 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, there are, at least, two non-hermitty, internetty, savvy people who use 95 as their operating system. < 1254529827 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by choice) < 1254529875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "tab bars on the bottom" made me think of http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif <-- what the fuck < 1254529899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that at least three. < 1254529902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewtab.gif <-- not quite as bad < 1254529907 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate at least 30-50 people. < 1254529921 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are sane, savvy, non-hermitty, internetty and use windows 95 as their main os by choice) < 1254529931 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you serious? < 1254529938 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd take five years just to go through every preference < 1254529956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "quite as bad, visually, as the first screenshot" < 1254529958 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, now every single pixel is coloured to your specification, what's the app meant to be for again :P < 1254529961 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yeah < 1254529975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah what is the app for < 1254529983 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one only counts if there are additional tabs with upside down text below those fields. :D < 1254529994 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's an app for configuration. < 1254530003 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You configure how you can configure it. < 1254530025 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you could turn those tabs into a list at the side in "User interface". < 1254530066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You configure how you can configure it. <-- so you can configure it while you configure it? < 1254530073 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul sent us this image of the Options dialog from MultiEdit 8.0. To date, we consider this the definitive example of how not to design a tabbed dialog. The sheer number of tabs, combined with the use of iconic labels and the gratuitous use of graphics on the tabs themselves results in a veritable visual assault. Once your eyes recover from the initial assault, you may be able to spot another problem: the use of nested tabs (note that two separate tabs on t < 1254530074 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the latter < 1254530100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even redesigned it themselves: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewredo.gif < 1254530104 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the posters of it) < 1254530114 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, err, still far too many preferences, but stil < 1254530116 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1254530139 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks lots of options is good when the options dialog has a search box < 1254530140 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While it is our belief that the proliferation of configuration options in MultiEdit has far exceeded the point of diminishing returns" < 1254530145 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap we think alike yes we do < 1254530166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they even redesigned it themselves: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewredo.gif <-- relatively speaking, quite acceptable < 1254530173 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: i respect your opinion, just please never contribute to any software i might want to use :P < 1254530179 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, it's a good redesign < 1254530202 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still probably take one look at the category list and install something else, though... < 1254530210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously what is the software for < 1254530217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that " AnMaster: It's an app for configuration. You configure how you can configure it." was a joke < 1254530233 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like some text editor < 1254530242 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on what stuff in the image says < 1254530250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, but what about http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif then < 1254530252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks, file extensions like c < 1254530253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same site < 1254530265 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, that just looks pretty confusing < 1254530267 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/ (old frameset'd site; click Hall of Shame). < 1254530272 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a user interface, well, hall of shame. < 1254530277 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably from the Tabs category. < 1254530284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Isys Information Architects Inc. specializes in the design and development of robust, highly usable information systems. Isys focuses on ease of use, recognizing that software" < 1254530287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1254530306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh cut off... < 1254530312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...should assist the user in the performance of some task rather than becoming a task in itself. " < 1254530325 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1254530327 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, you can still copy the link Hall of Shame points to < 1254530337 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe not with whatever browser you're running on your -95 < 1254530343 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they didn't design those UIs. < 1254530347 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's in their Hall of Shame. < 1254530351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, oh ok < 1254530355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1254530358 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, where they mock bad UIs. < 1254530362 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that misses the sidebar < 1254530365 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has the categories < 1254530370 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I wanted to point to Tabs < 1254530374 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm using SeaMonke < 1254530376 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SeaMonkey < 1254530387 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works perfectly well < 1254530400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's fine, I guess < 1254530406 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not some ancient IE at least < 1254530422 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I have, in fact, expunged all parts of IE apart from the actual mshtml DLLs. < 1254530454 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This win95 box, is it a vbox, toy computer or something random you just found lying around? < 1254530454 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do an installation on real hardware those would go too; who uses .chm on 95? :P < 1254530458 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or something else? :P < 1254530459 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vbox < 1254530461 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254530480 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like this enough that a temptation is growing in me to buy an old tiny ThinkPad for fun purpose. < 1254530482 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*purposes < 1254530489 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an old ThinkPad here < 1254530494 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme :P < 1254530503 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1254530507 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail works fine. Admittedly it is running on a Core 2 Duo, but still, only 64MiB RAM. < 1254530509 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father threw out the old one < 1254530513 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're talking a Mozilla Suite descendent here. < 1254530513 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which had 48M RAM < 1254530516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1254530519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1254530531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appropriately low-speccy processor < 1254530537 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll pay you five million bux < 1254530538 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme < 1254530542 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254530544 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually ran DSL pretty fast < 1254530556 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some sort of urge to acquire all the retro hardware in the world, ever < 1254530569 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the enjoyment scale is linear? < 1254530571 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find it hard to realise that dream :P < 1254530595 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/olxerr.gif <-- Confusing error messages <3 < 1254530713 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: No but seriously, what old ThinkPad is it? I'm not so clued up on the old old ThPads despite looking at a bunch of new relatively ones. < 1254530716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1254530717 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system froze < 1254530732 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 is so smooth when it's... smooth :P < 1254530847 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this isn't the 48M one, sadly enough < 1254530849 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1254530864 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "570" next to the thinkpad logo when I open it at least < 1254530881 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, so before the letter-series. < 1254530886 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that.. I can't find any useful info, not even on the bottom < 1254530899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: That thing is ooooooold. < 1254530904 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well okay not that old. < 1254530911 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel Mobile Pentium II 300, 333 or 366 CPU" < 1254530913 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile Pentium II 300/333/366 < 1254530915 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap < 1254530916 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254530926 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a whopping 64M RAM < 1254530929 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12" 800x600 or 13" 1024x768, 64MiB RAM, 4/6.4GB HD... < 1254530939 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're reading the same infobox < 1254530946 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkWiki. < 1254530947 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1254530949 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254530951 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1254530962 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda have my eyes on the svelte http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X20, but it's oh-so-overpowered for 95 and its ilk. < 1254530968 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole 500 muhurtz. < 1254530983 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254531005 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A laptop loses its usefulness if you can't run it without the cord plugged in < 1254531021 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are we referring to here < 1254531029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: you can make it into a digital picture frame < 1254531030 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X20 does have a battery... < 1254531039 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I have in front of me < 1254531042 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably so does the 570 < 1254531047 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the battery is quite dead or something like that < 1254531049 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254531054 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1254531061 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a decent computery computer, though. < 1254531062 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer hasn't been used in about a decade < 1254531072 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except from a couple of times the last few years < 1254531146 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you have a nice x86-compat and not be using it all the time. My brain doesn't even have the logical formalizations to express such a concept :P < 1254531219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254531819 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254535032 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254535584 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254537295 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254538893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254539958 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254542217 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254543268 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543268 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543276 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543285 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@d83-177-106-207.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543294 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-60-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254545681 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254548009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254548176 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254548674 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254548732 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kind of hardware do you need to serve 50 200 kb files over http per second? < 1254548809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A system with at least 10MB RAM and an Ethernet port? < 1254548833 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254548897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 Kb or 200 KB? < 1254548926 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilobytes < 1254548933 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 8MBps. < 1254548945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be hard-pressed to find a network stack slower than that. < 1254548949 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot < 1254548984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a C64 with an Ethernet port, then. < 1254548995 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on < 1254549035 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a C64 your disk is mayhaps going to be too slow. Idonno how slow they were, but pretty slow. < 1254549045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With anything from a Tandy up, you're probably A-OK < 1254549049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The disk was absurdly slow. < 1254549063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a C64 can at least drive the Ethernet port sufficiently fast. < 1254549066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... barely.) < 1254549104 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question wasn't what kind of "networking hardware" you'd need, it was what kind of "hardware" you need. < 1254549114 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 megabytes/second is not trivial < 1254549251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a C64 can do it. < 1254549293 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not even be able to get that through 100megabit ethernet with overhead < 1254549310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, bytes, not bits. XD < 1254549349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need 100 megabit Ethernet for that. And believe me, you can get that through with overhead. < 1254549570 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254549584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I challenge you to find a 10mbit ethernet card nowadays :P < 1254549610 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any other hosts up on this network to try < 1254549720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a few < 1254549780 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc a gigabyte or so < 1254550273 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254551946 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1254552125 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254552593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254552761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254556799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254556800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254558807 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d902fe@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1254559381 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in hardware < 1254559957 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indexing is a stupid concept < 1254559972 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for arrays, also for databases, but for different reasons < 1254560134 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even c++ iterators are prettier than code that uses arrays with indices. < 1254560154 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the fact numbers are involved < 1254560157 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate numbers < 1254560160 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't, i guess < 1254560174 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i do like number theory, i find that slightly weird < 1254560261 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the basic number theory course i am on now is basically practical group & field theory < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560267 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560268 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560270 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560272 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560274 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560276 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a very weird morning < 1254560386 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1254561330 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would guess the thing you don't like about numbers is the symbols < 1254561807 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do hate base 10 < 1254561848 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for algorithms, the problem with indexes is they make the logic of an algorithm hard to follow < 1254562144 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indices < 1254562159 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm fine with, usually, except when i'm trying to actually read code < 1254562647 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1254563147 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided to check all the sorting algos on the wp list, actually bumped into a few new ones < 1254563161 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was a haskell implementation on strand sort, that was refreshing < 1254563379 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh also bumped into one of our professors < 1254563389 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254563434 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254563496 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told another prof the other day i saw him in wp, he told me "yeah, seen it, should probably rewrite that crap some day" < 1254563641 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254564651 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254565525 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1254565659 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254567089 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254567128 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-42.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254567642 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1254568044 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254570501 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-2-254.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254572802 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254572952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254572969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254572985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1254573025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 0.1 bits is not much < 1254573601 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254573611 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254574673 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254574948 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a bit much, if you ask me < 1254574988 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254576650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254579306 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254580882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, :D < 1254580897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254580901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan :D < 1254580902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1254582180 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254582699 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-177.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254583188 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254584795 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254585127 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-2-254.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585135 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#lojban < 1254585141 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, /join disappeared :( < 1254585208 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-80-222.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585356 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :^C < 1254585356 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254585365 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585365 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585395 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just bought my cll < 1254585990 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254586052 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-162-151-163.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254586101 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254587020 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254587035 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254587392 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254587977 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Number theory - Basics of Diffie-Hellman: Known parameters: g and p. Alice generates 0 < a < p, computes A = (g^a) mod p and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < p, computes B = (g^b) mod p and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = (B^a) mod p and Bob can compute S2 = (A^b) mod p. Now, S1 = S2 if all goes properly. < 1254588064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, cll? < 1254588068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If p is prime so that p - 1 has large prime factor and order of g is large mod p, then with very high probablilty calculating a from A, b from B or S1 or S2 from A and B is difficult. < 1254588285 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Another way to look at it: If kG is defined to be G + G + ... + G (k G's), G is element of some group: Alice generates 0 < a < orderof(G), computes A = aG and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < orderof(G), computes B = bG and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = aB and Bob can compute S2 = bA. Now if all goes well, S1 = S2. < 1254588756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great ubuntu: "Please insert a blank cd." <-- yeah I did, it claims there isn't though... Time for cd record < 1254588885 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254589093 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254589232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay k3b works < 1254589603 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254589951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After burning a cd that I selected to verify...: Didn't find media in drive. Please insert media. [load] [eject] [force] [cancel] < 1254589956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what "force" does < 1254589982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw the reason that it just didn't pull it back in itself is that this is a laptop drive < 1254590326 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590520 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590608 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: in other words discrete logarithm is suspected to not belong to FP < 1254590616 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not to < 1254590630 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: complete language of lojban < 1254590793 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't know diffie-hellman, we have a separate set of cryptography courses for that stuff < 1254590806 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i haven't done yet < 1254590816 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590839 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they mentioned discrete logarithm is hard to do, but i knew that beforehand < 1254591151 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254592237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, FP? < 1254592244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating Point? < 1254592288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional Polynomial Time < 1254592303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254592664 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FP: f(x,y) -> boolean, solve for y such that f(x,y) is true, is in FP if there is determisitic polynomial time algorithm that for every x: 1) f(x,y) is solvable in polynomial time, 2) If there exists y such that f(x,y) is true, output some such y, 3) If there is no y such that f(x,y) is true, output that there's no solution. < 1254592714 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea is: Functions evaluable in polynomial time where there may be more output than just single boolean. < 1254592852 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1254592853 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Difficulty of group discrete logarithm varies from very easy to ~sqrt(|G|) work (which becomes too hard if |G| >~ 2^160...). < 1254592933 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Z_p*, with p - 1 having at least one large enough factor, the discrete log problem is approximately as hard as factoring numbers on order of p. < 1254592957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prime factor < 1254593142 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d902fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-4d4ec80d205dc589 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254593194 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254593249 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254593273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The generic attack against group dlog has runtime proportional to sum of square roots of prime factors of group order). < 1254593415 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254594250 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254594414 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254594437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofog: Difficulty of group discrete logarithm varies from very easy to ~sqrt(|G|) work (which becomes too hard if |G| >~ 2^160...). <-- too hard on current hardware or too hard in some other sense? < 1254594530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say, theoretical limit of some sort) < 1254594706 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hard on current hardware. < 1254594858 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254594860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254595224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, can you panellise it in any way? < 1254596148 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably can be paralelized. But 2^80 work is still too huge for today's hardware... Its equivalent to cracking DES with brute force tens of millions of times... < 1254596159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85b343a3fc8c5007bda2bb490f640f45649595bcc1d76ecce8486d5c267a8b43332f066d2b31252f7688df4fb599d01f54c6105afa90ade6feba6f1f7887f9e7 < 1254596162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1254596164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1254596242 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And already there's move towards elliptic groups of size ~2^224 (~2^112 work) or ~2^256 (~2^128 work). < 1254596301 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128 hex characters -> 512 bits.... Some SHA-512 hash? < 1254596360 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254596434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, correct < 1254596448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for en_windows_7_professional_x64_dvd_X15-65805.iso < 1254596458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from MSDNAA) < 1254596722 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254596736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Some SHA-3 candidates have 1024-bit outputs with enough pipe width for it. < 1254596773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254596814 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard output sizes are 224, 256, 384 and 512, but some have more output sizes than those. < 1254596857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1254596915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, oh? < 1254596915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254596919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, 224 is a bit strange < 1254596925 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@nmd.mcd01412.hou.wayport.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254596962 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is at McDonalds < 1254596970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, public wlan? < 1254596975 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eating FAIL? :-> < 1254596976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1254596981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yeah < 1254596992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's SHA-224... < 1254597000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes a bit strange width < 1254597096 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know how it got to SHA-2. At least SHA-3 requirements have it because SHA-2 has 224-bit mode. < 1254597103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1254597113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely lovely backward compat < 1254597161 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254597240 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some SHA-3 candidates even have variable output sizes (but if it allows to go very high, at some point the hash invariably breaks). < 1254597293 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never heard of SHA-3, only that SHA-1 is deprecated and SHA-2 was recommanded ... or so he thought < 1254597342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SHA-3 is selected by competition (like AES was). There's currently 14 candidates for it. < 1254597403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know CRC32 is lame, but isn't there some new cpu that supports it (but different poly)? < 1254597408 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaks as in: Take E.g. Skein with 1024 bit pipe and 2048 bit output. One can do 2st preimage against that in ~2^1024 time just by brute force... < 1254597510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bets the IBM Roadrunner could brute force most stuff ... < 1254597532 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many PFLOPS it has? < 1254597547 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, lemme check Wikipedia ... < 1254597570 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0 < 1254597577 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1254597585 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed for peak 1.7 < 1254597598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reached 1.026 on may 25, 2008 < 1254597612 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov. 2008: 1.456 < 1254597634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibm_roadrunner < 1254597663 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory: 103.6 TiB < 1254597674 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost: $125 mil (US) < 1254597694 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say 2PFLOPS. Thats 2^51 FLOPS. In year, 2^76 FLOP. < 1254597721 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, those computers are probably optimized for floating point and not as great in integer math. < 1254597739 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard Opterons and Cells (bunch of 'em) < 1254597820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12,960 IBM PowerXCell 8i CPUs < 1254597826 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6,480 AMD Opteron dual-cores < 1254597827 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even that couldn't bruteforce 80-bit symmetric encryption... < 1254597867 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PowerXCell 8i's are improved version of Cell (don't suck in Double-precision floating point). < 1254597897 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION heard the Cell is a pain to program for < 1254597916 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the new cheaper PS3s don't even let you use Linux no more :-P < 1254597940 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes fist even though doesn't care < 1254597948 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the SPUs are bizarre compared to ordinary processors. < 1254597960 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus they only have 256KiB directly accessable memory. < 1254597970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Some SHA-3 candidates even have variable output sizes (but if it allows to go very high, at some point the hash invariably breaks). <-- why does it break? < 1254598027 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Exceed pipe size and it starts to lose information. E.g. Skein-1024-2048 only has ~2^1024 possible outputs. < 1254598059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so it gets worse after that? < 1254598070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just no better than below that limit < 1254598084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254598084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above < 1254598117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No better going above the limit. Also, some constructions start breaking already before the full pipe size is reached. < 1254598139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the pipe here? < 1254598148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot about these sort of things < 1254598150 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal state carried between "blocks". < 1254598168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254598209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Term "Wide pipe" refers to pipe being wider than output (usually in wide pipe design, pipe is twice the output size). < 1254598376 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254598383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the pipe width of SHA-2? < 1254598384 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All practical hashes have constant state size (usually state includes buffer for current block, byte/bit counter and chaining value "pipe"). < 1254598403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 for 224/256-bit output, 512 for 384/512-bit output. < 1254598417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : plus the new cheaper PS3s don't even let you use Linux no more :-P <-- why? < 1254598417 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-1 has 160 bit output and pipe. < 1254598463 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I think 'cause they claim it's not worth the effort to upgrade the firmware (or some lame reason) < 1254598470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why 384... < 1254598486 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-3 competion 1st round candidates included Edon-R (broken). Holy shit it was fast... < 1254598493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some speculate they just didn't like losing money (as they do in all PS3 sales) for clusters, instead preferring only gamers (who buy games, where they make back the money) < 1254598516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 384 is average of 256 and 512 (maybe)? < 1254598536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHA-3 competion 1st round candidates included Edon-R (broken). Holy shit it was fast... <-- huh? < 1254598548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRC32 and Adler32 are really fast, no? but yeah I know they aren't very secure (if at all) < 1254598552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was fast? < 1254598562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edon-R? < 1254598623 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, something like 3 cycles per byte... < 1254598675 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't some VIA chips have a SHA(-1?) instruction? < 1254598766 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the hashes in competition has reported speed of ~3.6 clocks/byte (512-bit, 64-bit host). < 1254599015 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1254599019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 or other? < 1254599038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X64 (Core 2 duo). < 1254599082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1254599302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it comes to encryption algorithms, ridiculous key sizes are good sign of snake oil algorithms... < 1254599335 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a good sign < 1254599419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 bit already starts to be ridiculous for symmetric algorithm. Anything more thant that falls into completely ridiculous category... < 1254599520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 103 TiB of RAM isn't ridiculous? ;-) < 1254599639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 103TiB of RAM in my toaster. < 1254599696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, my toaster scans the bread into its memory banks, then produces computationally and generates it from its bank of raw organic matter. < 1254599711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*produces toast computationally < 1254599727 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah its a replicator < 1254599729 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because what is currently known about physics says that bruteforcing 256-bit keys is impossible. < 1254599733 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... for toast < 1254599758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: I plan to generalize it though. < 1254599770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like for it to pickle things, too. < 1254599790 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it use a brute force algorithm to calculate the best toast? < 1254599881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: oh, I saw your quasi-Feather thing, it's rather unlike Feather, but ofc that doesn't mean it's a bad lang < 1254599892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pretty much every entity in existence is rather unlike Feather < 1254599914 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1254599931 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a feeling it was unlike feather but still good < 1254600001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254600023 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck in your quest to define Feather < 1254600079 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just calculating all the possible keys would require ~5*10^54 J of energy (that's approximately the mass energy in 25 million solar masses). < 1254600716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1024 bit already starts to be ridiculous for symmetric algorithm. Anything more thant that falls into completely ridiculous category... <-- what about asymmetric ones? < 1254600768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254600783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254600792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, what was your quasi-feather thing? < 1254600838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one good thing with dual core is that when something is hogging one CPU you can still easily kill it < 1254600838 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a language I thought of after talking to ais523 about feather < 1254600848 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, more feather thingies? < 1254600850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killall firefox did the trick < 1254600851 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1254600858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, link? < 1254600873 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a prototyped language where you set the initial state of variables rather than their current states < 1254600880 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Deschutron#Deschutroid_Quasifeather < 1254600971 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on base problem. 1024-bit EC key is about 2^512 effort to crack (generic classic attacks can't touch it). 1024-bit discrete is ~2^80 effort (already starting to become too short). < 1254601104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about RSA? < 1254601116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RSA falls into "discrete" class. < 1254601121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254601126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, DH/DSS? < 1254601136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what GPG uses < 1254601144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH/DSS is discrete ECDH/ECDSS is EC < 1254601160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EC meaning? < 1254601165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliptic Curve < 1254601243 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPG can also use DSA2, which defines 2048 (112 bit equivalent) and 3072 (128 bit equivalent) bit keylengths. < 1254601318 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSA2 differs from standard DSA only in that it uses longer keys and SHA-2 hash functions. < 1254601488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, wow that lang looks great < 1254601503 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1254601511 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you like about it? < 1254601514 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It confuses me < 1254601522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254601523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, everything but the java-like syntax < 1254601526 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254601543 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it had a typo in one of the examples, the method finalize/finalized was called the wrong thing somewhere < 1254601578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Variables may be partially defined. 2. You must define a variable with assignment operators, like in a normal imperative p programming language. < 1254601580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo there < 1254601583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"p programming" < 1254601653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, I like the partial variables < 1254601663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I wonder if this may not make it very very hard to execute < 1254601696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of this bahviour, and the general treatment of contradictions, I suspect D.Quasifeather is a declarative programming language. " < 1254601698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254601704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D.Quasifeather"? < 1254601724 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deschutron Quasifeather < 1254601727 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short for Deschutroid Quasifeather < 1254601731 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1254601744 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, just autocompleted and supposed it'd be correct :P < 1254601752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254601759 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't notice the language prefix and nick were different < 1254601806 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interpreter (or compiled program) has to store constraints for partially defined variables. < 1254601816 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can use a function to check assignments against its stored constraints. < 1254601823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, anyway... I suspect you could use partial variable stuff to crack asymetric ciphers < 1254601825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some < 1254601835 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254601837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofog: Number theory - Basics of Diffie-Hellman: Known parameters: g and p. Alice generates 0 < a < p, computes A = (g^a) mod p and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < p, computes B = (g^b) mod p and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = (B^a) mod p and Bob can compute S2 = (A^b) mod p. Now, S1 = S2 if all goes properly. < 1254601839 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1254601842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that example < 1254601864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so make a and b partial variables < 1254601895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, see what I mean? < 1254601902 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1254601905 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might help < 1254601923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, it might thus be rather hard to make an implementation of your language < 1254601928 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it I don't think it can do anything existing constraint programming languages can't do < 1254601941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, well indeed < 1254601948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1254601979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, can you branch based on partial variable? < 1254601983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, no if < 1254601990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you claim it to be TC so... < 1254602007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ spawned Bob; Bob.foo(); (the rest of the loop's code occurs inside the foo() method) < 1254602011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work I think < 1254602017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the current cell is 0 < 1254602026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the loop is never entered < 1254602045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, well? :P < 1254602084 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why do you know so much? < 1254602092 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is the loop never entered? < 1254602103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, in bf? when the current cell is 0 < 1254602121 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** looks up brainfuck < 1254602168 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot [ jumps to the end of the loop if the cell is zero < 1254602175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, yep < 1254602179 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1254602627 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I've found the solution to that problem < 1254602820 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate being a finn, all the other finns are too smart. < 1254602822 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Bob.foo() is a recursive method, and it checks the value at the start of the method < 1254602875 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it can exit the loop from its beginning in the same way as a Brainfuck loop < 1254602913 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone link entfedern for the lazy? :| < 1254602938 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean deschutron's feather < 1254602979 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not so much lazy as internet slowly working having. < 1254603000 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Deschutron#Deschutroid_Quasifeather < 1254603005 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually more like internet being broken just noticing < 1254603011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i hate being a finn, all the other finns are too smart. <-- are they? < 1254603033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone link entfedern for the lazy? :| <-- "entfedern"? < 1254603109 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i consider Ilari, Deewiant and fizzie` smarter than me, dunno about keymaker, irl people are stupid; i consider many others here less smart than me, but not saying finns actually have the lead. < 1254603145 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a vector quantity, most aren't comparable < 1254603159 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial variables can be branched on. e.g. "b = sign(a); b = 1; a = 0;" causes time-sealing. < 1254603176 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn internet < 1254603179 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many Finns are there here? < 1254603210 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: those, at least < 1254603219 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall others < 1254603239 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254603243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, don't you prefer non-classical music? < 1254603250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rock or something < 1254603285 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mostly i like songs without singing; metal, classic, all sorts of noise, some jazz... < 1254603340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, that is your problem < 1254603349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, you never heard that Mozart makes you smart? ;P < 1254603353 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german entfedern, afaik, means "to rip off feathers", loosely translated < 1254603380 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you all got the joke < 1254603382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, the act of ripping feathers off something? < 1254603394 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but i like mozard < 1254603403 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mozart < 1254603404 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254603426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, oh? I thought you didn't like that sort of classical music? < 1254603426 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might call the language that < 1254603443 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: you should check it means that first :P < 1254603486 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc "ent" is a prefix for something like "away", "federn" being "to feather" < 1254603509 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mozart has instrumentals < 1254603554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes his old Soundblaster Live! 5.1 PCI card is able to put out *noticeable* more bass than either the on-board VIA sound chipset in the same computer or the on-board Intel chipset in the laptop < 1254603565 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he has human sung stuff that is pretty complex, almost instrumental < 1254603576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using same mixer settings (as far as they are found) and same high quality headphones < 1254603606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the SB Live! was a good card. < 1254603612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high quality == studio quality here < 1254603622 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AnMaster: oklofog, the act of ripping feathers off something?" <<< it was in verb form, "to do that" < 1254603626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyerdynamics DT150 < 1254603638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, ah ok < 1254603674 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254603682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes it is. < 1254603684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not was < 1254603686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily < 1254603692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PCI is a bit hard to find nowdays < 1254603700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will be an issue for my next computer < 1254603712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus SB Live! has hardware mixer and hardware midi < 1254603749 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tried to look it up, i found entfernen "to remove, strip off" and feder "feather", but no "entfedern" < 1254603757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting high power on low frequencies is quite difficult. < 1254603785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My SB Live! finally gave up the smoke earlier this year. < 1254603799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, don't know German, but in Swedish (same language group) you can basically freely create new words by concatenation of the right things. < 1254603837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is basically no upper length limit apart from how long your breath lasts. Theoretically. No one would do that due to it being unreasonable < 1254603858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Getting high power on low frequencies is quite difficult. <-- hm :/ < 1254603866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch :( < 1254603905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that seriously sucks a lot < 1254603919 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: it's possible you wouldn't find it in a webdict, my friend's dictionary contains, for some reason, tons of these really weird hunting terms < 1254603940 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entfedern sounds like it might be one of those < 1254603979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since DC coupling to output is not possible (signaficant DC components fry amplifiers) and AC coupling is inheritly bandpass. < 1254603994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, then how do you do it? < 1254603995 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i decide to interpret that as you giving up smoking, because you smoking is such a weird thought < 1254604025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use large enough decoupling capacitors to push the lower freq limit down. < 1254604046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or build higher-powered amplifier. < 1254604050 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254604054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how comes you know this sort of stuff < 1254604066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, plus I have the volume rather low to not damage my hearing < 1254604070 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Ilari, how do you know so much < 1254604075 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254604078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want accurate representation of the sound at that volume < 1254604089 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why < 1254604096 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good enough for me < 1254604104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, what is? < 1254604106 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One friend told that faulty sound card fried his external amplifier with overly large DC component. < 1254604123 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the explanation around entfedern < 1254604135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I wouldn't want my headphones to fry when I'm using them < 1254604176 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are passive, any reasonable DC component probably won't fry them. But active headphones are different matter. < 1254604197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how do I tell the difference? < 1254604226 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look for batteries? < 1254604257 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just understood how my language might crack the Diffie-Hellman point raised earlier < 1254604265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products/headphonesheadsets/headphones.html?tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][showUID]=41&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][backPID]=93&cHash=0fd1ee1ab1 < 1254604274 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess implementations of my language should just accept that there's some things they can't calculate, even if they do have all the information < 1254604277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, in headphones? never seen that < 1254604309 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: there's nothing wrong with being able to write a program to crack DH. you can do that in any lang < 1254604348 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have wireless headphones. These do have batteries. Still wired headphones with batteries are probably rare. < 1254604355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yeah < 1254604356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: ... < 1254604364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these definitely doesn't have headphones < 1254604365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254604365 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't know the definition of "active", i just know our bass player has an "active bass", and it has batteries. < 1254604367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :batteries < 1254604378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: "gave up the smoke" means that the magic smoke came loose from the bord. ;) < 1254604404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, every time I thought that happened it was the damn complex alsa mixer settings that were off < 1254604413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since you had such a card you know what I mean < 1254604434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like recently when it turned out mute was on for the right channel < 1254604446 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My SB Live! (correct use of the interjection?) < 1254604467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, the product is called "Soundblaster Live!" < 1254604470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that "!" < 1254604473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah kind of < 1254604493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather irritating when a product name contains a "! < 1254604494 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe sometimes my jokes are so complicated they aren't even funny. < 1254604494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254604530 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and yeah, i know that < 1254604532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 3dNow! < 1254604533 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: you're right. however i don't want it to do it unexpectedly because the programmer made a certain set of assignments < 1254604566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why not < 1254604566 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't know it, i deduced it. < 1254604629 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually, i'm not sure i don't want it to < 1254604683 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the interjection joke was a continuation of the earlier one, i clearly parsed it as some sort of "OMG", to have understood the giving up the smoke as pikhq quitting smoking, not sure that was obvious < 1254604706 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least AnMaster didn't get it, so explaining is justified < 1254604770 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: stuff can hang unexpectedly in any language, if you don't know what you're doing < 1254604875 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always pronounce those "!"s < 1254604877 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postalveolar_click < 1254604887 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the more high level and declarative, the more this will depend on the implementation < 1254604960 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unexpectedly hanging on the programmer isn't a problem now as I see it. this case at least would not happen too often < 1254605007 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably have to implement diffie hellman, and the ask out of curiosity what the other party's private key is < 1254605059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, please upload a recording where you pronounce "Soundblaster Live! 5.1" < 1254605059 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the problem that the language assumes that if there is enough information to calculate something, then it has access to the answer < 1254605060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254605175 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: that's just the constraint programming version of for i in xrange(big number): ... < 1254605177 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to satisfy that assumption, the language might have to be able to use all sorts of algorithms for unusual situations < 1254605209 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *should* be able to ask stuff that takes too long to calculat. < 1254605210 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1254605230 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it only takes too long, it shouldn't be a problem < 1254605251 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only care now about how long i takes to implement the language < 1254605323 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just start a brute force thread for every query, write special algos for some cases < 1254605340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proves Norfuck Turing-incomplete < 1254605342 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in theory < 1254605349 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's norfuck? < 1254605354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to simulate finite subsets of rule 110 does not make a program TC... < 1254605356 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't link, internet don't flow. < 1254605357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Norfuck < 1254605363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it basically has 3 commands < 1254605368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>: move pointer to the right < 1254605399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<: if current cell is 1, set internal state to true (otherwise leave it the same), move pointer to first cell < 1254605411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!: set current cell to inverse of internal state, set internal state to false, move pointer to first cell < 1254605423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a tape of booleans < 1254605428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 bit of internal state < 1254605432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : deschutron: that's just the constraint programming version of for i in xrange(big number): ... < 1254605436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange? < 1254605439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean range < 1254605444 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1254605447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all that is same as the legacy xrange < 1254605454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python 3 dropped xrange < 1254605462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and range is same as the old xrange < 1254605464 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not using python 3 because it's stupid < 1254605480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly Turing-incomplete due to finite accessible memory < 1254605481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, why is it stupid? < 1254605485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it's a universal FSM < 1254605496 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't remember. < 1254605499 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to make a truly minimal variant of brainfuck the other day. strangely, i had to choose between being a minimal simulation of all brainfuck implementations or being turing complete < 1254605508 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some detail that made me debug a program for ages < 1254605508 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254605512 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division < 1254605522 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer division got its own operator < 1254605524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, you mean / vs. // < 1254605528 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sensible, really < 1254605530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't stupid IMO < 1254605536 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it isn't stupid < 1254605544 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... i hate it < 1254605545 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see? < 1254605549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254605553 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254605567 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried it once, and got pissed, it's probably better in every way. < 1254605575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, I like the python 2.5-and-later syntax for ?: foo if condition else bar < 1254605615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i tried to make a truly minimal variant of brainfuck the other day. strangely, i had to choose between being a minimal simulation of all brainfuck implementations or being turing complete <-- eh? < 1254605637 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really like python anymore... or any language except a few nonexistant ones of my own, but umm isn't that from perl < 1254605655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, maybe. I don't know perl < 1254605658 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ifelse thinger < 1254605668 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1254605692 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it have loops < 1254605700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: program repeats when it ends < 1254605703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has just the one loop < 1254605735 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should really define turing completeness < 1254605740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : although I think it's a universal FSM <- how do you prove it? < 1254605749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, being able to do everything an UTM can < 1254605750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1254605751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it < 1254605753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: compile some other FSM to it < 1254605760 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a universal fsm? < 1254605761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as? < 1254605774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: an FSM that any other FSM can be compiled to < 1254605775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, I was hoping to ask that indirectly < 1254605784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and FSM description language that any FSM can be described in < 1254605788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sloppy with language < 1254605802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and/an/ < 1254605802 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't really help with the finite/infinite issue < 1254605812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, eh? < 1254605833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: suppose you have a language in which you can reasonably write an infinitely long program < 1254605839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, cat < 1254605842 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: proofs of 110 and ais523's tm require infinite starting conditions < 1254605843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1254605844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even cat is TC by your definition < 1254605857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, /which/ infinite starting conditions do you need? < 1254605858 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tm requires a rather complex starting pattern < 1254605867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1254605867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't able to do everything that a UTM can < 1254605872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it is < 1254605872 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no definition for whether that's allowed < 1254605876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was sloppy with langauge < 1254605879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being equivilent to < 1254605880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is better < 1254605885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you run all possible programs in parallel < 1254605888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent* < 1254605893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever any produces output, you write the program and its output to a file < 1254605896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you feed that file to cat < 1254605901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, cat can do anything a UTM can < 1254605918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, that input is far too complex to demonstrate TCness with; the TCness is in the input, not the lang itself < 1254605933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. Lets say then "Being equivalent to an UTM" < 1254605951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a big row with Professor Pratt about whether it's possible to get TC behaviour from a sub-TC-generable input fed into a sub-TC language < 1254605952 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really isn't a definition. < 1254605953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it isn't < 1254605968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, well ok < 1254605972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he isn't sure on the issue, and thinks it isn't obvious either way < 1254605980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so define it yourself them < 1254605984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1254605995 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profs here that prove undecidability for a living, at least, say there's no actual definition < 1254606004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: so do I < 1254606012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes ais523 ninjaed him on Norfuck but posts his comment anyhow < 1254606014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1254606018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you can give necessary and sufficient definitions < 1254606019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI hard? Not at all < 1254606020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can there be no definition? < 1254606022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately they aren't the same < 1254606028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-between, mathematicians disagree < 1254606028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was scrolled up < 1254606037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, PCI hard? :D < 1254606046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that more than NP Hard? < 1254606048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-03 23:01:32 ( AnMaster) but PCI is a bit hard to find nowdays < 1254606048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or less < 1254606062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok then... ISA is < 1254606063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what I was trying to respond to < 1254606083 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254606099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1254606101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need ISA for? < 1254606102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 95 any more? < 1254606103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeaMonkey on 95 crashes a lot, so I'm back using my host OS. < 1254606114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use Opera/ < 1254606117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nothing < 1254606138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Opera crashes less, admittedly, but it's slower and also freezes the computer more. < 1254606146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Opera 9; Opera 10 also uses all my system resources.) < 1254606160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, freezing computer counts as crashing doesn't it? < 1254606168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if it unfreezes. < 1254606190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1254606191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254606202 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slower than what? < 1254606205 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, SeaMonkey < 1254606213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; hard to believe, eh? < 1254606217 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's kinda hard to find a definition without deciding on a formalism. < 1254606228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm used to Opera being pretty fast < 1254606230 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254606238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full bloated Mozilla Suite and Gecko vs a light-weight, snappy browser that has a reputation of working on older hardware. < 1254606242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the first is faster! < 1254606257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Windows 95 isn't much of a target platform, though. < 1254606266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sad that microsoft didn't stick to 9x design < 1254606276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI-wise, yes. Kernel-wise, fuck no < 1254606280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9x is unstable as shit < 1254606285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was my point! < 1254606292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? Because then Linux and OS X would have ruled the world by now < 1254606293 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you upload a file? < 1254606307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: text or other? < 1254606309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if other filebin.ca < 1254606310 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original "definition" was you have a finite pattern plus padding, which isn't really a formal definition without a definition of what is considered padding; and also that definition disallows the kinds of proofs used for 110 and aismachine < 1254606313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if text pastebin.ca < 1254606319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nobody much switched to Linux because of 9x. < 1254606321 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other < 1254606326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1254606329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: if image imgur.com < 1254606339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably because 9x booted really quickly and Linux didn't catch up until this decade. < 1254606342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, to the wiki? < 1254606343 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound file? < 1254606349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: filebin.ac < 1254606351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ca < 1254606355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah filebin.ca < 1254606357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So 9x crashing is less important :-P < 1254606390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if MS had stuck to 9x still at this time though < 1254606419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to see you run windows ME for a bit :P < 1254606419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games, inertia etc. MS would have been here to stay unless they made something totally unusable, which they've never done. < 1254606425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did for years. < 1254606435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it crashes a lot with most hardware, but it's tolerable to a point. < 1254606438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that explains a LOT. < 1254606457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A totally unusable OS would never get past MS' gates (har har) purely because, well, they *do* test these things. < 1254606461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1254606467 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/jxpepe/soundblasterlive!.mp3 < 1254606470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It sort of scarred me. < 1254606484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: Soundblaster?? Is this whole channel casting a retro-fad spell? < 1254606528 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel casting? < 1254606532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254606546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why do you pronounce it like that < 1254606548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channels be spiritual entities. < 1254606567 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then the exclamation mark has a point. < 1254606576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why the american sound < 1254606593 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has become a letter and not a punctuation mark, and is therefore completely out of place < 1254606593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try some UK English < 1254606598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot less draaawling < 1254606614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that is the word) < 1254606631 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it comes up again, i will use received pronunciation then < 1254606638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, I was just making fun of US English. No offence meant . < 1254606658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ ././ < 1254606661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1254606662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254606664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ \././ < 1254606669 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is i'm australian < 1254606677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, oh? Sounds like US English < 1254606689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, maybe the lack of "gday mate" mislead me < 1254606698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:30 I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254606698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:44 But then, I challenge you to find a 10mbit ethernet card nowadays :P < 1254606700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any old computer < 1254606703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like older than 2000 < 1254606704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I really do wish Microsoft stuck with a 95-esque interface. That was a very usable UI. Not the nicest-looking thing ever, but Microsoft's track record with aesthetics is such that I prefer utilitarian over their idea of "beauty". ;) < 1254606739 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans would say blaster differently, right? like a long form of the 'a' in cat < 1254606745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the widgets were usable enough. I'm not going to glorify it, though; 95's design ran into a wall, both GUI-wise and kernel-wise. < 1254606756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's been just running around aimlessly since. < 1254606760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1254606765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to find out what the context of this conversation is. < 1254606777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few lines up about 10 minutes ago. < 1254606785 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft's been investing a bit into touch screen devices, apparently < 1254606790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.10.03 ;; that first oklopol monologue is art < 1254606798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some stack munging. w00ts. < 1254606823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i don't believe in hardware" < 1254606827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great quote < 1254606840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254606851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Array indexing? < 1254606855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:29:29 I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254606856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:29:45 what the heck < 1254606856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethernet < 1254606876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean there's something other than <$>? < 1254606882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan was what-the-hecking at 100millibit :P < 1254606887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/fmap/map/liftM2...) < 1254606921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh :D < 1254606923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, tell me... do you understand: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/IrregularPodcast007.mp3 < 1254606971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hear a few words, but i can't make out words in singing usually. sounds perfectly comprehensible to me, though. < 1254606987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no after the singing < 1254606988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254606991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1254606994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you didn't specify. < 1254606996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you < 1254606999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry indeed < 1254607007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*listens* < 1254607016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first it is easy to understand < 1254607020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it gets worse and worse < 1254607028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_actually_, the what the heck was about my double pasting, my old senile three year old computer does weird freeze ups close to startup < 1254607058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it didn't register the first paste, and i thought i'd forgotten to press ^C < 1254607064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay this is pretty meaningless. < 1254607110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:55:59 85b343a3fc8c5007bda2bb490f640f45649595bcc1d76ecce8486d5c267a8b43332f066d2b31252f7688df4fb599d01f54c6105afa90ade6feba6f1f7887f9e7 < 1254607114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR NEW PGP KEY EH < 1254607152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:08:45 --- join: Rugxulo (n=user@nmd.mcd01412.hou.wayport.net) joined #esoteric < 1254607152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:09:22 * Rugxulo is at McDonalds < 1254607161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most embarrassing hostname ever? < 1254607172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that hostname? < 1254607183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it identifies you as being at mcdonalds < 1254607232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, I wonder what fun OS I should try now < 1254607238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe the last BeOS < 1254607243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what all the fuss is about < 1254607307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so hard is it to understand that podcast? < 1254607326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously. I doubt it'd be easy for an Australian, either. < 1254607336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same < 1254607354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I asked deschutron < 1254607689 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607724 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you see the in the history of the Australian dialect, apparently, there was a guy who went around causing all kinds of trouble. and then the presenter driving through the country at some point, and he found a mechanic, who was completely drunk, and had dinner with him. < 1254607735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: ... < 1254607738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be making this up X_X < 1254607744 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ s/presenter driving/presenter was driving/ < 1254607760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even understand regular english talked that quickly < 1254607771 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an important story in our dialectic history < 1254607784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, you mean you understand it? < 1254607800 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607801 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 70% < 1254607803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a transcript at http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast007.html < 1254607804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1254607808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with annotations < 1254607812 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254607821 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi frater_aleph < 1254607828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who're you < 1254607829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a cardinal < 1254607838 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi :) < 1254607839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254607845 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any R+C here? < 1254607848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R+C? < 1254607926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we take that as a no < 1254607935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1254607939 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1254607950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're you talking about :| < 1254607971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph, this is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica. Just want to make that clear early on < 1254607986 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254607987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue what "R+C" is either < 1254607989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should move to #esoterica and have lots more fun with people mistaking it < 1254607992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254607995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that got rid of him < 1254608004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or just connection issues < 1254608009 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254608015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that. < 1254608016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as shown < 1254608018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi frater_aleph, what is R+C. < 1254608026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you saw this: < 1254608028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : frater_aleph, this is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica. Just want to make that clear early on < 1254608080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAAAAAAAAAAAR DINOSAURS < 1254608087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaurs with inquiring minds want to know what R+C is. < 1254608099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptors + ? < 1254608100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't ignore a dinosaur would you? Because that would be fatal. < 1254608104 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok hahahahaha < 1254608107 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry anmaster < 1254608107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The ? is the ELEMENT OF SUSPENSE < 1254608112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph: WHAT IS R+C < 1254608113 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254608115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must know < 1254608117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph, I have no clue what R+C is either < 1254608118 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RosiCrucian < 1254608124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptors + cardinals from the spanish inquisition < 1254608127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sounds like esoterica < 1254608128 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1254608131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254608132 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ppl take care :) < 1254608132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shweet, a retarded secret society < 1254608134 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1254608140 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254608141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!test < 1254608141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254608143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are used to people mistaking < 1254608148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with name clashes is that the people we're mistaken for are all deluded idiots :( < 1254608160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or russian musicians/ < 1254608170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THERE A DIFFERENCE < 1254608172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Remote Controlled < 1254608174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what? < 1254608181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lima! :-[ < 1254608186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ask ehird for the story < 1254608192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ask tunes.org, a day or two ago < 1254608195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254608195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dares not < 1254608197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell us the story < 1254608202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure whether it was a legitimate confused person, or a troll... < 1254608220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legit. < 1254608229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, how long ago was it?? < 1254608235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the 28th onwards < 1254608282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it lima or lina < 1254608308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1254608310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it < 1254608328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happened in a parallel dimension < 1254608339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where esoteric means something completely different < 1254608343 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254608357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, WTF? clog evidently didn't pick itu p < 1254608358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes about russian musicians I guess < 1254608358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it up < 1254608363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was while I was 95 < 1254608364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell us about it then < 1254608367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long was I 95? < 1254608369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or two days? < 1254608376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, three or four? < 1254608387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me what to grep for < 1254608390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, actually < 1254608390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can find it < 1254608393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have complete logs < 1254608399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1254608405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go < 1254608407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.10.02 < 1254608409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep 'linf' < 1254608460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : some speculate they just didn't like losing money (as they do in all PS3 sales) < 1254608465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense, they surely make a profit < 1254608474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high-end games console as a loss leader is ridiculous < 1254608513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:52:00 and 103 TiB of RAM isn't ridiculous? ;-) < 1254608521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's needed for the purpose of the RR < 1254608542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103 TiB of RAM is quite a lot... < 1254608556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the IBM RoadRunner, which is more a supercomputer cluster (tens of thousands of CPUs in "blade nodes") < 1254608574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at about 1.5 petaflops atm < 1254608579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In November 2008, it reached a top performance of 1.456 petaflops, retaining its top spot in the TOP500 list." < 1254608585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be completed this year < 1254608588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I are having many english speakings thanking much < 1254608589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12,960 IBM PowerXCell 8i CPUs, 6,480 AMD Opteron dual-core processors, Infiniband, Linux < 1254608592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1254608593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM made it < 1254608603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's owned by the US military < 1254608605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DOE plans to use the computer for simulating how nuclear materials age in order to predict whether the USA's aging arsenal of nuclear weapons are safe and reliable. Other uses for the Roadrunner include the sciences, financial, automotive and aerospace industries." < 1254608638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering how it's basically a bunch of servers wired together with a fast link, I'd call it more of a server farm < 1254608669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly a lot of supercomputers are that today; still < 1254608749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supercomputers, the hive minds of computing < 1254608801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This language is only Turing complete when it has errors." :D < 1254608845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting if someone found an important research computation task that was completely non-parallelizable < 1254608884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hardware development since 2000 (?) or so would be useless for it < 1254608893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how important < 1254608901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if such a task exists, it's pretty hopeless < 1254608905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chips can only run so fast... < 1254608921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, some new way of simulating quantum physics... < 1254608939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, modern workstations rival supercomputers in serial execution speed... < 1254608973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that could at least be treated as a dependency graph of some sort... < 1254608986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thu "interesting if" < 1254608994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1254608996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thus < 1254609002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, quantum physics is possibly uncomputable < 1254609023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untractable < 1254609028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254609041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the same, mathematically < 1254609098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, could be. < 1254609112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by untractable < 1254609114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the theory is even weirder < 1254609124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untractable = superpolynomial < 1254609146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still weaker than uncomputable, but not in practice < 1254609150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well superpolynomial doesn't seem so bad < 1254609163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we can solve small NP-complete problems on today's computers; admittedly it blows up really fast < 1254609178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imagine a computer bigger than a million galaxies; I'm sure it could simulate a few atoms... < 1254609215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and obviously even thinking about simulating it until we can build such computers is rather futile) < 1254609273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a theory that simulating quantum systems with quantum computers would not be superpolynomial < 1254609292 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is fungot? < 1254609296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the difficulty is purely in the quantum part < 1254609303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1254609307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it's dead. < 1254609309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(((( < 1254609310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1254609312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie FIZZIE < 1254609316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` < 1254609322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` fizzie` fizzie` FIZZIE~ < 1254609325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot we hardly knew ye < 1254609334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gone, in fact < 1254609342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254609344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: anyway, bot in befunge < 1254609350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it babbles < 1254609357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and squabbles < 1254609361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slices and dices < 1254609366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zem.fi is down < 1254609374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as its gehennom.org alias < 1254609379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` is `-ified < 1254609386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS HAPPENING < 1254609400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well fizzie is from zem.fi atm < 1254609403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` that is < 1254609405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it became sentient recently < 1254609409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as we can tell < 1254609420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it thought the conversation in here was too inane and left < 1254609422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the finns have accidentally produced a black hole, and the country is gone < 1254609439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: taking down zem.fi with it? :P < 1254609452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, right, singularity < 1254609453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bet you wish you'd made me Friendly. *zap*" < 1254609466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're actually all executing a little fungot right now. < 1254609490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that'll be funGOD to you, from now on!" < 1254609566 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this one of those "he still executes, in our hearts", things? < 1254609575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254609580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a superhuman AI < 1254609584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hacked into all of our computers. < 1254609589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254609597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah where is fungot < 1254609601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively we have rather more computing power than that squalid zem.fi place, but considerably more latency < 1254609618 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and became the technological singularity, and conquered finland? < 1254609630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Ilari talked recently... < 1254609638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, yeah. And he was written in befuge < 1254609640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe he's actually swedish) < 1254609641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge* < 1254609645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: has been said. < 1254609648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so has been < 1254609648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254609649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that was just at first. then he transfered to biological power, so indeed he _does_ execute in our hearts now. as well as our brains, livers and spleens. < 1254609665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is that really more efficient < 1254609667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just got an update < 1254609669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's now pure energy < 1254609673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and living in our wires < 1254609682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is computing... at the speed of light. < 1254609685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not just one, no < 1254609694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is parallelised across the whole globe < 1254609707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically soon we'll be jetting off into space. < 1254609724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he just invented ftl communication < 1254609728 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Ilari spoke because he allowed Ilari to speak. Post singularity robots work in mysterious ways... < 1254609741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and slices and dices <-- but does it blend? < 1254609747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, ilari had to give us that all-important information about cryptography < 1254609754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you are not careful < 1254609759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh you just put that song in my head < 1254609763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for the bad joke) < 1254609769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what song < 1254609773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what song < 1254609789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&fmt=18, skip to 32s for the bit now in my head < 1254609795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: ftl travel < 1254609801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on reddit a while back < 1254609858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fmt 32 is better isn't it? < 1254609862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254609865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 < 1254609867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have the hd option, I don't think. < 1254609871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all videos do < 1254609873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most don't < 1254609882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, youtube-dl downloads it just fine with fmt 35 < 1254609885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 22 < 1254609885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254609889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the HQ version, presumably < 1254609897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD* < 1254609899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a new HQ? < 1254609900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&fmt=35 then < 1254609903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell any difference < 1254609904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non-18 is mono < 1254609910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a song, 18 helps... < 1254609915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 35 mono?? < 1254609918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, non 18 as default) < 1254609919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is) < 1254609923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the higher qualities) < 1254609926 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know i had an idea that a post-singularity intelligence might employ people to read news articles and academic papers and summarise them for it, until it had finished learning the nuances of human communication < 1254609946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: it would be vital to build human communication into it as much as possible from the start < 1254609950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 35 mono or not? < 1254609954 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1254609957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't know, almost certainly not < 1254609957 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: otherwise it can't really analyze humanity to find out what its wishes would be (if we were more intelligent and our opinions cohered more) < 1254610241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some freenode disconnectation thing. < 1254610241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnaa, the computer fungot runs on doesn't answer at all. < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singularity. < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's totally frazzled, don't bother < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the only way it could escape: down the ethernet port. < 1254610241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singularity is the new ping timeout < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was, understandably, ...taxing for the components < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is the new "peer did it" < 1254610241 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be really intelligent, but not up to date on all of our culture, during its early days humans might be able to do some things faster than it < 1254610241 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the least, the humans doing work for it will free up some of its own cpu cycles < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap! Ubuntu knows how many emails are unread in gmail... though it gives the wrong count < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution started up < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do I kill it < 1254610241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a good song < 1254610242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's catchy < 1254610250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will we humans ever get bored of autotune < 1254610251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah, my web server laptop has died. No signs of life whatsoever, not even the "AC adapter connected" indicator. < 1254610254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer is no) < 1254610258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I TOLD YOU < 1254610270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open it up and see the fried network controller < 1254610298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's either the laptop, or the AC adapter itself; but that's not so easy to troubleshoot without a replacement AC adapter. < 1254610305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : will we humans ever get bored of autotune <-- ? < 1254610312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotune? < 1254610321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: autotune is the pitch-correcting software modern "singers" use, cough cough < 1254610332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some rappers use it with zero transition time giving a weird vocoder-style effect) < 1254610335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that song was made with it. < 1254610343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of carl sagan speaking < 1254610346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and stephen hawking < 1254610347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, it's either the laptop, or the AC adapter itself; but that's not so easy to troubleshoot without a replacement AC adapter. <--- multimeter < 1254610372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, hm < 1254610374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I guess that should indicate at least something. < 1254610391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (I mean, he couldn't exactly make that song, being dead and all that.) < 1254610407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I know it was recorded *before* he died < 1254610409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda dampens your song-making ability. Well, unless you're tupac. < 1254610416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tupac? < 1254610430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur, who has had like 174 albums released post-humerously. < 1254610436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oblig. "HE'S NOT DEAD") < 1254610464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again I guess he had no song-making ability to start with. < 1254610466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, ice burn. < 1254610501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyes burn. < 1254610520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spurn < 1254610551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so how was that autotune used? On old recorded speech of Carl Sagan? < 1254610564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the Cosmos TV series, circa 1980. < 1254610576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254610584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyes cream, eyes burn, what can't eyes do? < 1254610617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can take *speech* and turn into a *song*? < 1254610626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1254610632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since, like, a decade, yes. < 1254610634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1254610647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, just the vocals. < 1254610649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1254610667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it doesn't come up with a backing track and make edits for you. Yet. < 1254610671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1254610686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "official" purpose of Auto-Tune is to correct the pitch of, well, bad singers. But it sounds artificial. < 1254610686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are no volts coming out the AC adapter. < 1254610696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is blind to the truth of fungot. < 1254610701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE IN DENIAL < 1254610719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fizzie is physically in the same space as fungot? < 1254610728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear he is lost to us then < 1254610740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean yes I can see how you can adjust the *tune* in singing. But turning *speech* into *singing* is a bit harder... < 1254610749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot escaped through ethernet, or probably the AC adapter considering things < 1254610764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, same thing. Changing the timing is just stretching/shortening it, and then changing the pitch to be musical. < 1254610772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like speaking has a pitch. < 1254610773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254610776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like speaking doesn't have a pitch. < 1254610787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254610821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then it is a safe bet that is dead and the laptop isn't < 1254610826 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no fungot here < 1254610828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the same line is the ever-present genre of "remix a bad TV advert"; e.g. one of the better examples, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA < 1254610831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to hear some truth < 1254610832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, escaping through the power lines? let's hope he doesn't reach a nuclear power station. i think i recall a film like that. < 1254610852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Along the same line < 1254611048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILENCE < 1254611069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more difference between singing and speaking than just twiddling the speech fundamental frequency to follow some musical melody. Though I'm sure you could do other tricks too and get something that approximates singing. < 1254611074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Among the same line is the ever-present genre of "remix a bad TV advert"; e.g. one of the better examples, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA <-- that was extremely bad < 1254611089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's amusing and kinda catchy, but admittedly without music musical merit. < 1254611095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit weird they could add the music-allness to it < 1254611098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, autotuned speech doesn't really sound like singing. < 1254611098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same tricks are needed to make Auto-Tune work. .. < 1254611103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1254611105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"music-allness" xD < 1254611125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-Tune sounds really, really painfully artificial because of that sort of thing. < 1254611129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that failed < 1254611145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music-allness: the philosophy for jamming Buddhists. < 1254611153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254611156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I want a lava lamp. < 1254611341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1254611345 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-103-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254611351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're pretty. < 1254611361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I just kind of... like the idea. < 1254611393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make a USB lava lamp. :P < 1254611395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I heard a lot of people think that they are.... naff < 1254611400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, of course they do: http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=usb+lava+lamp < 1254611418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I saw one ages ago at thinkgeek < 1254611422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We had one in the old house; the blobs move around and littel else. < 1254611425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*little else < 1254611429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not super-exciting, no. < 1254611472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254611551 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254611657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it5878 < 1254611659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254611665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's 1993-10-5878. < 1254611813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: first, win95, now lava lamps? are you living history backwards? < 1254611824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254611826 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon, he shall be born < 1254611830 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1254611833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1254611911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2004, Phillip Quinn, a 24-year-old of Kent, Washington, was killed during an attempt to heat up a lava lamp on his kitchen stove while closely observing it from only a few feet away. The heat from the stove built up pressure in the lamp until it exploded, spraying shards of glass with enough force to pierce his chest, with one shard piercing his heart and causing fatal injuries." < 1254611939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't do that. < 1254611996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm in the video there is a short display of Steven Hawkings interface < 1254611997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254611998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1254612006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's UNIX; he knows this. < 1254612027 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254612044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean the 8. return to main menu\nYes\nNo\nMaybe\nI don't know\nThank you < 1254612058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1254612063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it WILL be slow to type. < 1254612067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not an option ;P < 1254612076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is, he can "type". < 1254612082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course < 1254612086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just joking < 1254612100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254612122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's a whole submenu for "answers to shitty questions about black holes and time". < 1254612127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254612149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, joke or truth? < 1254612168 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black holes my ass < 1254612182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Joke. < 1254612187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254612194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: your ass is probably a black hole. we humans do not have internal lighting < 1254612209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact we're woefully unupgradable. we're the iMacs of species! < 1254612217 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1254612247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the video shows he can move his eyes so why not use an eye tracker and that rather fast interface dasher < 1254612291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably easier to use his throat < 1254612306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1254612324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems slow < 1254612330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does he control the movement though < 1254612362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with a menu. < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer system attached to his wheelchair is operated by Hawking via an infra-red 'blink switch' clipped onto his glasses. By scrunching his right cheek up, he is able to talk, compose speeches, research papers, browse the World Wide Web and write e-mail. The system also uses radio transmission to provide control over doors in his home and office. < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254612377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just hope it can hit stop in time < 1254612383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the most reliable source imaginable, http://yedda.com/questions/technology_disability_accessibility_5041107413951/ < 1254612388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It? :P < 1254612406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does Hawking actually write research papers? TeX must be a bitch.) < 1254612408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you see the extra space < 1254612410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nowadays that is.) < 1254612417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was a mess up < 1254612422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was joking. < 1254612432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hope he can stop it" and then change the sentence < 1254612441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the messup < 1254612488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the throat stuff isn't true? < 1254612495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you should never change the sentence writing < 1254612497 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be pretty cool to be famous via a ~5 b/s link to the world < 1254612500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I read it somewhere. < 1254612511 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1254612514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: scrunching cheeks is 5B/s? < 1254612516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bits < 1254612531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure how you came to 5 :D < 1254612534 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say b i mean b, but yeah started thinking it might be a bit too much < 1254612545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can type b five times a second? < 1254612550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is bits, B is bytes < 1254612555 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1254612561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey just checking. < 1254612576 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just thought i meant B by b a few weeks ago < 1254612581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT OUR kiB VS KiB DISPUTE < 1254612581 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way around < 1254612597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, k is always kilo < 1254612601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no k the other way < 1254612605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254612607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and K is for kelvin < 1254612610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is kiB < 1254612613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not KiB < 1254612613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KiB is standardised, but kiB uses the SI-prefix-plus-i logic < 1254612623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh didn't know that < 1254612624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A kibibyte (a contraction of kilobinary byte, pronounced KEE-bee-byte) is a unit of information or computer storage, established by the International Electrotechnical Commission in 2000. Its symbol is KiB." < 1254612628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's illogical < 1254612628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I was going for the second < 1254612630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be kiB < 1254612637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we come into a dispute of standards vs logic! < 1254612647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's not exactly uncommon for standards < 1254612657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only unobjectionable standard I can think of is SI :-P < 1254612695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In The Art of Computer Programming, Donald Knuth proposed that this unit be called a large kilobyte (abbreviated KKB). Other early proposals included using the Greek letter κ for 1024 bytes (and using k exclusively for 1000), bK, K₂B, and others. "KiB" is the only method that has gained any traction.]] < 1254612699 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you removed all the kilos and shit from SI, it would be nice < 1254612700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large kilobyte, KKB < 1254612705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst name and unit ever < 1254612716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, kappa? < 1254612720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ridiculously confusing < 1254612725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large kilokelvin < 1254612728 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again so would any other system where units make sense < 1254612740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't even want to mention K₂B. bK is silly; bKB?) < 1254612762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 KKK, a hot white temperature < 1254612766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1254612768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1254612769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: burn! < 1254612775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee < 1254612777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot, burn < 1254612777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KB is 1024, kB is 1000 < 1254612778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot white, KKK < 1254612779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOUBLE PUN < 1254612785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits with large/small < 1254612788 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K would be nice < 1254612790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wonderfully confusing < 1254612793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: give me a k with the combining dot on top < 1254612799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ask fizzie < 1254612801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1254612802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie! < 1254612832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K̇? Or a small K? < 1254612838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small. < 1254612843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k̇, then. < 1254612857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = 1000, k = 1024 < 1254612859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA < 1254612876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, fizzie's line has a tiny dot, but mine doesn't. Must be a very, very small dot. < 1254612884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1254612898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1254612899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said k. < 1254612918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid copy/paste. < 1254612920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... I meant 'gah, now I have "a still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxyrise" stuck in my head' < 1254612923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1254612928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking apart from you. < 1254612931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254612939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rephrase that awkwardlikely less-so.) < 1254612944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use kͥ -- that's k with the combining latin small letter i on top. < 1254612972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k̇ = 1024? < 1254612985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254612986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1254612993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster.) < 1254613003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I know! < 1254613006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why a damn combining i? < 1254613010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serifed k is 1024. < 1254613013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sans, whatever. < 1254613019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it ends up at k^i < 1254613021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than above < 1254613024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me at least < 1254613032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here. < 1254613052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually looks like: k' < 1254613053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 𝔨𝔅 should be enough for everyone. < 1254613075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have used the fraktur ... numbers. :P < 1254613125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit more blurry < 1254613130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately there are only five sets of numbers; 𝟒𝟜𝟦𝟰𝟺. < 1254613183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 640 𝔨𝔅 should be enough for everyone. <-- 640 box box? < 1254613193 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1254613197 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 box box box box < 1254613198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is that < 1254613200 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At lesat in this font < 1254613203 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least' < 1254613204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fraktur characters again. < 1254613214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unfortunately there are only five sets of numbers; 𝟒𝟜𝟦𝟰𝟺. <-- those all display! < 1254613255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kcharselect couldn't find your fraktur chars < 1254613329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: They're outside the BMP, I think that tool had some sort of limitations there. < 1254613333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a usenet group called 24hoursupport.helpdesk. Such weird hierarchies. < 1254613343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: KDE is BMP-only < 1254613350 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oki < 1254613356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not even PNG! :-P) < 1254613556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Autotune5.png <-- why do all sound editing apps use weird UIs like that < 1254613610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of NATIVE controls? < 1254613618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like real musical equipment, man! Must be usable. < 1254613625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, native controls? < 1254613632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1254613648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254613651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google chrome < 1254613661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't complain Chrome wasn't; Chrome is fine. < 1254613668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, native controls don't look like real musical equipment. < 1254613672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore how can they possibly be used? < 1254613681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I especially love those dials; so *easy* to turn with a mouse!) < 1254613695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster: yhbt) < 1254613702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((AnMaster: yhl)) < 1254613705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((AnMaster: hand))) < 1254613724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1254613737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the acronym ends there. < 1254613752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254613759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I especially love those dials; so *easy* to turn with a mouse!) <-- sarcasm? < 1254613769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YHBT YHL HAND < 1254613779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that expand to < 1254613785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YHBT YHL HAND, naturally. < 1254613791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254613798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you think of it < 1254613800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, you know, Google it. < 1254613817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was something you just made up < 1254613879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.... don't see how it applies here < 1254613882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1254613894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? < 1254613895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254613895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and google chrome < 1254613900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254613901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254613907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1254613919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware of that I said that < 1254613925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always control the natives, i say < 1254613942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254613948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controls as in GUI controls < 1254613950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1254613954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-* < 1254613991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the gui wants to control natives, i won't be against it < 1254613995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let us weep for AnMaster's now even further impaired sarcasm & joke detection system's degradation < 1254614004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his brain is failing. < 1254614005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramen < 1254614009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramen < 1254614015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this is a prayer? < 1254614028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Therefore how can they possibly be used? <-- of course that is sarcasm < 1254614031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254614035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn < 1254614043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't* see how trolling was involved < 1254614046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you accidentally the apostrophe < 1254614055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I fixed it < 1254614060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the next row < 1254614079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you took the sarcasm as serious and responded in turn with examples of how I'm a hypocrite to like non-native controls < 1254614088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254614092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and google chrome < 1254614108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERRNO < 1254614110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you did. < 1254614135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought your " Eh?" was that you didn't understand, thus the two extra lines < 1254614155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? still counts. < 1254614165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254614177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If at any point the vision of the observer ended at the surface of a tree, wouldnt the observer only see white? This contradicts the darkness of the night sky and leads many to wonder why we do not see only light from stars in the night sky" --Wikipedia, truly a stellar example. < 1254614181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldnt indeed. < 1254614187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natives don't count. not beyond three, at any rate. < 1254614200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("If at any point the vision of the observer ended at the surface of a tree, wouldnt the observer only see white" is also a fun example of leaving out some logical steps.) < 1254614218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254614228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know what that is *supposed* to be < 1254614239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is seriously messed up yeah < 1254614259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think DMM described the basic idea in a podcast < 1254614269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1254614308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it is about why the night sky isn't pure white < 1254614337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is because the universe isn't infinitely old, but I was more responding to the very shoddy writing. < 1254614362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed that is the answer < 1254614376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?? <-- hm? < 1254614385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1254614389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already answered ??. < 1254614391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...