< 1254873674 0 :Rugxulo`!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254873781 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254874207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254876270 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254876684 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1254877668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254877890 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254880379 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254880808 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254881188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/156/ hey, I remember when xkcd was still funny. < 1254881191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe i was imagining it < 1254881208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254882467 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254882746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254889088 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254890721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIRST THING SAID FOR TWO HOURS THREE MINUTES < 1254890733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AND THREE MINUTES FOR THAT MATTER OH YES OH YES OH YES INDEED < 1254890833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calculates differently < 1254890923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq 2:32 < 1254890925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me 4:45 < 1254890950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two hours = 4:32 < 1254890950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1254890950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirteen minutes < 1254890983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U FAIL ARTMETIC HA HA < 1254891010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :artmetic < 1254891115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RYTHMETICK < 1254893162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd reaches still new levels of absurdity < 1254893175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254893180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not, i think, of humor < 1254893184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree again < 1254893425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, xkcd isn't even making a reference < 1254893426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a joke < 1254893431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bunch of lines and some text < 1254893443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except one reference in the alt text < 1254893449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oregon trail! i bet he's been playing that game for months < 1254893454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the two comics about it < 1254893466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it's a game? < 1254893470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254893478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREDICTION OF FORUM THREAD CONTENTS: "GET OUT OF MY HEAD RANDALL" "hahahaha best xkcd ever" "Can I fuck you Randall" "I WISH TO HAVE YOUR BABIES YOU ARE GENIUS" < 1254893485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ? < 1254893489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254893496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what word highlighted pikhq there < 1254893559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1254893559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46236 < 1254893561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pikhq". < 1254893561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're mostly critical < 1254893564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half an hour ago. < 1254893571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:32] :) < 1254893575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last thing said before me < 1254893579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1254894092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254894214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, is there supposed to be a pun in "Ex-Chat"? < 1254894612 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254894646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always assumed < 1254895020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i get EgoBot to http pages for me, kinda annoying to go all the way to the other room to reset the modem thingie < 1254895101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1254895113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1254895114 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg < 1254895125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo test < 1254895129 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1254895148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric < 1254895152 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254895185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i conclude that as "yes, but" < 1254895204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(needs dcc chat) < 1254895340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could hack up a script to do it more properly. < 1254895507 0 :acloglio!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254895519 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: artmetic is where you aren't bound by the usual axioms, but make your own rules < 1254895536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1254895548 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the new xkcd is not absurd, and is definitely a joke. it's just a particularly bad graph joke < 1254895555 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1254895609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also kinda annoying how mirc chooses completely randomly what nicks to keep as my alternatives < 1254895622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it always chooses the ones i definitely never want to use again < 1254895633 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost wrote "want" as "onet" < 1254895639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, the sign of a burnt-out man < 1254895741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it doesn't just choose the last one that is available? < 1254895754 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254895761 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklokok < 1254895771 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has two slots for nicks < 1254895776 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main and alt < 1254895792 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if i'm still acloglio when i jump next < 1254895860 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall once changing my nick like 10 times to make sure some nick isn't reused < 1254895862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _could_ be complicated by when it saves state < 1254895902 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, anyway it seems i should be at the uni, time just flies by when you're crying over bad software < 1254895904 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < 1254895923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time flies like an arrow < 1254896049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sfedeesh Recursion is fun. Or is it? < 1254896049 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recoorseeun is foon. Oor is it? Bork Bork Bork! < 1254896068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish Recursion is fun. Or is it? < 1254896069 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recoorseeun is foon. Oor is it? Bork Bork Bork! < 1254896074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not. < 1254896333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish Sju skönsjungande sjuksköterskor skötte sjuttiosju sjösjuka sjömän på skeppet Shanghai. < 1254896334 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sjoo skönsjoongunde-a sjooksköterskur skötte-a sjootteeusjoo sjösjooka sjömän på skeppet Shungheee. Bork Bork Bork! < 1254896506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254896936 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254896961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:43:34 which reminds me, is there supposed to be a pun in "Ex-Chat"? < 1254896962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat < 1254896966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default quit message: Ex-Chat < 1254896984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1254897026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hi < 1254897152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm back on os x. not sure why < 1254897159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :font rendering sure is better thouh < 1254897161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1254897185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality distortion, probably < 1254897193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah :P < 1254897242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secretly reality is distorted every few minutes, but only the schizophrenics are able to notice it < 1254897256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac os x is too darn pretty < 1254897326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing the hold-modifier-and-drag-to-move-window from metacity < 1254897389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices an anvil above, and says nothing < 1254897444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot feel a thi- < 1254897445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254897461 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254897469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ng < 1254897470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unfortunate. < 1254897475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, connection dropped < 1254897477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how're yall'z < 1254897487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither words in that sentence are! < 1254897490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*word < 1254897492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1254897529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, good night < 1254897541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, os x has still cracked mouse acceleration way better than other OSs < 1254897560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Cracking mice is hard to do cleanly" < 1254897715 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3.6/3.7 did its own mouse acceleration on windows at one point, then they scrapped it because there might already be mouse drivers doing it. < 1254897726 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes far more sense for the system to do it :( < 1254897746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox... did its own... mouse accel- sorry, what? < 1254897754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows really is on crack, isn't it? < 1254897809 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For big scrolls I use the middle-mouse autoscroll thing, anyway. I kind of like how Firefox does that one, and none of the other browsers do it the same :( < 1254897820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera does. < 1254897827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be done by the OS too! < 1254897846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: So, question. The mouse driver did the delay before a menu opens in NT 4.0, at least. < 1254897848 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462809 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509651 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513817 < 1254897849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it still handle that? < 1254897882 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's in a registry entry now, TweakUI (e.g.) has an option to change it. < 1254897897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least that's saner < 1254897902 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most other UI delays are based on that delay time, too < 1254897908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But WHY does the mouse driver handle mouse acceleration? < 1254897964 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't *have* to. Some do, apparently. Because Windows doesn't do any of its own. < 1254897987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does... it used to, at least? Right? < 1254898001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MS people as new as 7 can't seriously have never ever studied any mouse ergonomics. < 1254898032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, gah why don't other OSs do OS X's scroll acceleration? < 1254898057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need any headache-inducing smooth scrolling because small movements just go a little bit, but if you flick it you can easily move across the whole document. < 1254898106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I don't use Firefox on any OS, though... it's clear they want to be an island and don't care about the platform. < 1254898226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to make Colloquy inform on every new message. < 1254898265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1254898269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: say something plz < 1254898311 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr. Flibble is very cross. < 1254898322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmph, uses Growl, not the dock icon. < 1254898338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't want to bounce it in the dock. < 1254898403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand you speak! < 1254898427 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mumbles incoherently instead < 1254898452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh... I want a persistent, non-annoying blob so that I know there's messages to read, not a single bounce. :( < 1254898469 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So if we back out the acceleration model, we are left with the problem that Chrome is perceptually twice as fast as us at scrolling" < 1254898481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254898490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so, so glad I do not use Firefox. < 1254898606 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3.6 includes new features such as not enumerating every single system font before even showing a window. < 1254898625 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how you could stay away, really. < 1254898662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I do have to wonder why you torture yourself with bad programs on a bad OS. :P < 1254898734 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder that too :( < 1254898758 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid windows-only games. Bad habit. :P < 1254898824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I've never understood how non-constant gaming can justify such horror... < 1254898828 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254899052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've adapted to using bad software. I can even use Windows Media Player (!) < 1254899067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, you've done serious psychological damage to yourself. < 1254899077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need years of therapy. < 1254899120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, with MondoMouse I can't enable Cmd-drag to resize, only Opt-Cmd and move mouse. < 1254899131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or move, which is what I primarily want) < 1254899329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://db.tidbits.com/article/10624 Uhh, wow. < 1254899351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it doesn't do the fun minimise effect promised. < 1254899353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How disappointing! < 1254901552 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254902310 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254902399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254902400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254902928 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254903323 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254903567 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here wrote a Befunge interpreter in sed, right? < 1254903576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is vaguely curious how that would work, even if input is an issue < 1254903620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an incomplete one; I'm not sure if someone else wrote a more finished one. < 1254903770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember the details, and my home desktop is off now, though. I don't think it did input, but it should be possible: just save all the interpreter "state" in the hold space when encountering ~ or &, and then have the main rules use the hold space to figure out where to continue, and the input for, well, the input. < 1254903819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to think I had a reasonably clever way of manipulating the playfield, or at least to do get(x, y) on it, but I don't recall what that might've been. < 1254903823 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it been tested with non-GNU seds? (e.g. *BSD) < 1254903851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in fairness, those are wimpy anyways, so you'd be lucky if it worked < 1254903915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No (as in, "no, it hasn't been tested"). And really, it was *very* incomplete; it was more of a collection of bits of groundwork for a Befunge interpreter. < 1254903950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a reasonable Brainfuck-in-sed though? Or maybe I'm mixing up with that brainfuck-to-ELF compiler which was written in sed. < 1254903975 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainf***-to-ELF I found, haven't seen an interpreter for that < 1254903982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not, then. < 1254903984 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an Unlambda interpreter though < 1254904001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well sed is kinda the wrong tool for the job (but fun) ;-) < 1254904027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is said to be a replacement for AWK and sed, but it goes way way way beyond that < 1254904043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some of our "introduction to imperative programming" course homework assignments with sed, for the fun. < 1254904045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mtve was ever here, he could probably elaborate < 1254904083 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed is cool, definitely < 1254904106 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but heck, if even AWK was only designed for one-liners mostly, then you know sed wasn't exactly meant for stuff like this ;-) < 1254904123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetics are a bit painful, yes. (Except with unary math, but that's a bit... memory-intensive.) < 1254904214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also function calls. I think in one of the programs I did a rudimentary stack, where you could push return labels on to, with a huge "s///; t foo; s///; t bar;" dispatcher to return. < 1254904284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some sort of a hundred-line maybe-not-so-optimal decimal adder in one sed program. It's easier with binary, though; but then you have to either convert that for output, or just have the user read long bitstrings. < 1254904310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit complicated, I know < 1254904325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'D' never did what I wanted < 1254904377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a lot of "t dummy; : dummy; s///; t foo" style code for branching, since t looks for any successful s instructions since the last t. < 1254904428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early lunchtime now. → < 1254904441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~10:34 local.) < 1254904480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2:34am here ;-) < 1254904502 0 :jix!n=jix@f054015235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254904528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some seds (GNU? I forget ...) support 'T' < 1254904635 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be vaguely useful sometimes < 1254904855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i sleep or internet < 1254904872 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you tired? < 1254904896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so! < 1254904906 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're too tired, just sleep < 1254904912 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hard to think when tired anyways) < 1254904914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however: internets < 1254904919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they require no thought :P < 1254904926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but sleep! but internets! but zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz huh what) < 1254905581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU has T, yes. < 1254905621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "T foo" is simply a "t skip; b foo; : skip". < 1254905643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the amount of unnecessary verbosity sed imposes by default, that's not much of a hassle to write. < 1254905700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These 03am-written presentation slides make no sense to me, and I'll have to give the presentation in an hour. Well, maybe everyone else will be equally tired. < 1254905801 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-jijhqzfhefgddtzt JOIN :#esoteric < 1254905855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawjn < 1254905922 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drink a soda to pep you up < 1254905997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmfbhgjkk < 1254906008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i hink that would surpass my meagre abilities < 1254906017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping would be smart; i'ma trial it out < 1254906025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRY BEFORE YOU DIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1254906027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254906128 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1254907708 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254908427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254909775 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254911138 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was in the 6th grade or so, i had this habit of saying "in your dreams, motherfucker" to everyone, all the time. < 1254911144 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels great to share < 1254912330 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136281.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254913466 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254914610 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254915428 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-gwkqeeqfmlkwkgtn JOIN :#esoteric < 1254915974 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254915974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254915996 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254915996 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254917016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that was one popular Master's thesis presentation. < 1254917030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were something like 30 people there. < 1254920494 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254921225 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254921873 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait didn't you present yours like ages ago < 1254921949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His was not the only Master's thesis presentation < 1254922003 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he gave *some* presentation < 1254922021 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean the earlier one wasn't his < 1254922386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean this one wasn't his < 1254922471 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right k, then i guess it was a coincidence < 1254922501 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the presentation) < 1254923260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one wasn't mine, yes. I just was there to listen, since it was advertised so well. < 1254923287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to add that I will present lots of pretty pictures, and < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no formulas or boring technical details, so attending my presentation < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is an excellent alternative to actual research work, < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :administration and most other activities you normally get paid for < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around here! (I mean the things you get paid for, not what you < 1254923289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually do. I don't know if I can compete with the best flash games, < 1254923291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll do my best.) < 1254923293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1254924397 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost makes me book the train tickets even though it's already over < 1254924922 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254924922 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254924922 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254925171 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@82.66.176.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254925705 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254926297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1(00)*1|((0|1(00)*01)(11|10(00)*01)*(0|10(00)*1)))* < 1254926543 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254927121 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254927300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused < 1254927306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Evolution calendar has reappeared < 1254927518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the end times! < 1254927522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see topic) < 1254927572 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136281.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254927731 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254928576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1254928588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254929399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and hi ais523 < 1254929410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254929577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254929806 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254930270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, started coding on the feather implementation? < 1254930306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1254930312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to but haven't got around to it < 1254930336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1254930502 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to have one :D < 1254930518 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254930642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Feather's the only language I know in which you have to worry about portability within a program < 1254930814 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254930861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254930880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the interpreter might change beneath you < 1254930991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254931564 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d908c9@gateway/web/freenode/x-wildajcgveoipncj JOIN :#esoteric < 1254931999 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254932397 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254932410 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254933125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254933456 0 :jix!n=jix@g224096126.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254933831 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254934344 0 :Jerry_!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254934344 0 :Jerry_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1254934374 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest5773 < 1254934412 0 :Guest5773!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1254936122 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254936254 0 :Zombie_Will!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Do you like zombies? How about zombie games? Come join ##zombie and visit www.zombieexperiment.com to help us design a zombie < 1254936361 0 :Rugxulo`!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254936504 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254936514 0 :Rugxulo`!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254936916 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254937373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254937725 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Rugxulo < 1254938256 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254938816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ehird when he joins: the power supply on my thinkpad turned out to be too weak to both charge the battery and sustain a heavy load (both cores at 95% or more, 3D graphics). It could sustain the load itself (so the battery didn't discharge, but nor did it charge) < 1254938829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he was considering a thinkpad he may be interested in this < 1254938840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old battery? < 1254938854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, computer bought this year, augusyt < 1254938857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :august* < 1254938860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was brand new then < 1254938861 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you just mean it can't run and charge at the same time < 1254938863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unlikely < 1254938874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, can't run heavy load and charge it at same time indeed < 1254938878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1254938884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine with light load < 1254938894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop (6 cell battery) gets max (!) 2 hours, and only then on "Power Saver" :-/ < 1254938916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and for reference wlan was turned off while doing this. Was using ethernet < 1254938919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(each core halved speed) < 1254938921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wlan seems to use more < 1254938929 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish mine lasted 2h < 1254938943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mine last 2 hours 50 minutes with light load < 1254938947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ondemand scheduler < 1254938948 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wifi, usb, etc. all use power, turn off all unnecessary stuff < 1254938962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluetooth is almost always off for me < 1254938975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't use it a lot < 1254938981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlan however I do use quite a bit < 1254938993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and turning off usb? huh? < 1254939008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't realistically, since some internal devices show up on the usb bus < 1254939009 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean don't leave unnecessary USB devices plugged in < 1254939015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the bluetooth thingy < 1254939030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh right, I almost never use any usb devices with it < 1254939042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exception is sometimes at home when I plug in the printer < 1254939052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mouse at home I use desktop + synergy < 1254939137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS do you use? some are better at power than others < 1254939233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, on the laptop? Ubuntu x86_64 < 1254939244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because arch didn't work very well < 1254939252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had no time to dig into those issues < 1254939255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed it to just work < 1254939260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only reason I use ubuntu < 1254939266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.04? < 1254939279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254939284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for stable < 1254939298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried XUbuntu 8.04.1 the other day, mainly for DOSEMU testing, seemed okay < 1254939309 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.10 will be out soon (this month) < 1254939409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, how long after that will 9.04 be supported? < 1254939416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope at least a month or so < 1254939565 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1254939568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is annoyed he has to choose whenever to run that heavy load or get the computer charged for tomorrow (will need it then...) < 1254939584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.04 is LTS, I think, hence it's still supported < 1254939585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the desktop is just a bit too old when it comes to CPU < 1254939708 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.04 should be supported for a while, though, I'd imagine < 1254939719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Fedora is supported until two versions later < 1254939926 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why nights were invented < 1254939947 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for recharging. < 1254940029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, except when I get up tomorrow I need to catch the bus very early on. thus having no time to pack my backpack < 1254940046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't bring the plug with you? < 1254940096 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wake up, and start running? i mean if you even put clothes on, the time to throw the comp in the bag will not dominate. < 1254940130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't bring the plug with you? <-- sure, but not the wall socket < 1254940156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the house was built *before* laptops were invented and/or common < 1254940161 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically you probably could take the socket!) < 1254940163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus not having a lot of outlets < 1254940166 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254940168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok: but it wouldn't provide electricity < 1254940179 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the "joke" < 1254940185 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory is hard. < 1254940185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would if I had a 20 km extension cable! < 1254940215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, calculating limits is even harder.... *sigh* < 1254940222 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254940231 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with epsilons? < 1254940277 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's noobie stuff < 1254940278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, the teacher said that was outside the scope of this module (iirc that is the English term).. < 1254940295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah from standard values and figuring it out. < 1254940307 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard values? < 1254940314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, as in "known basic ones" < 1254940342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you know what the trig functions are for pi/2, pi/4 and pi/6 is < 1254940350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the three basic ones that is) < 1254940394 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lim_{x->0} (x/x) = lim_{x->0} 1 HEY NOW IT DOESN'T DIVIDE BY X YAY I HAS LIMITS < 1254940409 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ do you do that stuff < 1254940444 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't do epsilons, you probably don't have a definition for limits, basically you have no idea what you're doing. < 1254940484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}\frac{x-x^{2}}{x^{2}+1}\] < 1254940489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have time over... < 1254940510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lim_{x->0} (x/x) = lim_{x->0} 1 HEY NOW IT DOESN'T DIVIDE BY X YAY I HAS LIMITS <-- sounds similar < 1254940559 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (x-x^2)/(1+x^2), without epsilons, you should go HEY THOSE X AND 1 LOOK REALLY SMALL THEY PROBABLY DON'T AFFECT ONCE YOU PUT THE NUMBER INFINITE IN PLACE < 1254940562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, also he defined it with epsilon... just said that calculating with that was outside the scope of this module. Would be more of that during this spring iirc. < 1254940575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, quite... < 1254940584 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's -1 < 1254940600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, actually I think you are supposed to somehow get rid of x^2 first < 1254940607 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1254940616 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then divide both the denominator and the numerator by something < 1254940621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by factorising and getting x^(-2) and such < 1254940636 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it look different < 1254940638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to get the right answer more often too < 1254940736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it seems rewriting it as \[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}1-\frac{x}{x^{2}+1}\] is simpler. Maybe < 1254940757 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254940757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1254940767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs some more parentheses < 1254940784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[\lim_{x\rightarrow\inf}\left(1-\frac{x}{x^{2}+1}\right)\] < 1254940889 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way: (x-x^2)/(1+x^2)-(-1) = (x-x^2+1+x^2)/(1+x^2) = (x+1)/(1+x^2) and notice the bottom is of a greater degree < 1254940908 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way: divide both den and num by x^2, to get stuff like 1+(1/x) < 1254940927 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 1/P(x) clearly go to 0 when degree of P > 0 < 1254940979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokok, the issue is, you should get the same answer through both methods < 1254940984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you don't, something went wrong < 1254940992 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254941005 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, limits are unique in R < 1254941011 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1254941021 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1254941103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what kind of a uni does limits informally < 1254941121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe our dumbed down math does that too, dunno < 1254941132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have separate courses for the less fortunate < 1254941133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, depends on what you are studying < 1254941146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, math or something else that *uses* math < 1254941164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like computer science. < 1254941226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand they might want to skip proofs, but skipping definitions is just plain cheating < 1254941338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also the answer should be that the limit above goes to either + or - infinity, otherwise the answer in the book (which is the oblique asymptote (english term taken from wikipedia, lets hope it is the correct translation) when x→inf wouldn't exist, at least as far as we were told) < 1254941354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow I get it to -1 < 1254941361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254941368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit is -1, as i said < 1254941382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed < 1254941397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about lim_{x->inf} 1, clearly it isn't + or - inf < 1254941398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh... reading on wrong line < 1254941472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each e > 0 you need to find some point in the series after which no deviation > e happens from the limit; the limit is 1, because for any e > 0, the whole sequence stays within (1-e, 1+e) < 1254941476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's constant < 1254941503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise < 1254941561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, believe it or not, i consider game theory harder than your homework problems < 1254941778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah probably < 1254941789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, example? < 1254941905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a mo < 1254942030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay pasting from a pdf to pb.vjn.fi doesn't really work that well, but actually this looks roughly as scrambled in the book < 1254942030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p315154346.txt < 1254942059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ok that is plain unreadable < 1254942077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, pdf's are evil < 1254942096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I thought game theory involved mostly combinatorics and probability and such? < 1254942104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell from that pdf though < 1254942110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or paste of pdf rather < 1254942131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of game theory involves games ;) < 1254942182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book is mostly about different kinds of solutions < 1254942195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution/equilibrium concepts < 1254942229 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254942239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : most of game theory involves games ;) <-- well yeah, but the tools include combinatorics and probability right? < 1254942250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationalizability is one of the weaker ones, where a move/strategy is created from scratch based on the assumption that all other players are infinitely intelligent, and knowledge about the game < 1254942310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "infinitely intelligent" part means infinite sequences of sets, the notation gets so goddamn hairy < 1254942310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, interpreting that paste may require infinitely intelligence too... So I guess it is intended for those who move in those circles ;P < 1254942351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and yeah < 1254943840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, I implemented a simplified DEFLATE variant in that rfk86 port. (It does the normal LZ77 encoding, but doesn't use the fancy code-length dual-wielded-Huffman thing to store the trees; and it compresses each -- very short -- message separately, so the compression ratios are a lot less, but that's the price you pay for being able to uncompress each separately without uncompressing the whole data stream. The TI-86 is not an especially fast machine.) < 1254943894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do it in 20 blocks or something < 1254943910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, but that's such a hassle. < 1254943925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much space does the current scheme save? < 1254943988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 86p file (which has few bytes of headers) went from 23685 bytes to 16766 bytes, which is at least something. (Plus that's with an animated exit splash screen added.) < 1254943992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, coding in asm for it? < 1254944013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like I said to Deewiant, you don't get a fancy grayscale introduction splash screen with TI-Basic. :p < 1254944015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still quite a lot of K < 1254944026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't see you mention that < 1254944046 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254944053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what does the program do? < 1254944065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a robotfindskitten port. < 1254944074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It.. you know, finds kitten. < 1254944086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but it doesn't compress *that* much with "real" DEFLATE either. < 1254944087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haven't played that game < 1254944095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/rfk86$ ./messages.pl < 1254944095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncompressed message data: 19454 bytes < 1254944095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZ77 with trivial encoding: 18708 bytes < 1254944095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZ77 with Huffman (w/o trees): 11685 bytes < 1254944095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZ77 with Huffman (raw trees): 12236 bytes < 1254944096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZ77 with Huffman (no dist tree): 12209 bytes < 1254944158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't deflate basically gzip? < 1254944158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1254944172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you link to it again? < 1254944185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The new version is not in the URL I used. < 1254944192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how would you do grayscale? < 1254944196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is on/off < 1254944204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I presume messages.txt is unchanged? That's all I want < 1254944226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, right. http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/rfk86/ if I remember right. < 1254944232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll put up a "project page" for it at zem.fi when I get that power supply. < 1254944235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite right, cheers < 1254944261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7z a -tgzip -mx=9 does 18866 -> 8963 bytes here to messages.txt. < 1254944266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you do that grayscal!? < 1254944268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scale* < 1254944321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's done by flickering two frames; the screen response times are so slow it doesn't really look flickery at all. < 1254944329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254944388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically you stick in an interrupt handler which flips screens so that frame 1 is shown for two timer interrupts, and frame 2 for one; that way you get a nice 4-level greyscale. < 1254944389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first programmable calculator had something like 106 bytes of memory < 1254944411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the program < 1254944412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The TI-86 has 128K of RAM and a 256K ROM chip. Or thereabouts. < 1254944426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot more < 1254944450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 106 bytes for the program to use for data? or 106 bytes for the entire program code? < 1254944453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though 96K of that RAM is technically speaking used for variables (program- and otherwise), and it would be pretty impolite for the running program to mess that. < 1254944456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for both code and data!? < 1254944493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the data was 27 double-precision floats < 1254944498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in RFK, is the game basically just about solving TSP < 1254944503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1254944504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably decifloats as it was a calculator < 1254944515 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip uses a custom Deflate, BTW, better than "normal" < 1254944516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: TSP? < 1254944517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, TSP? < 1254944521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn :P < 1254944530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling < 1254944534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yep. < 1254944536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's just a custom deflate *encoder*; it's still the standard stream format. < 1254944547 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's compatible < 1254944547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1254944553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling salesman prob < 1254944558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it makes quite a bit of difference though < 1254944560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh hah < 1254944569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no you don't know when you will find the kitten < 1254944577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1254944614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and since you don't know that, the shortest path to visit all items is the optimal you can choose. < 1254944660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a full DEFLATE decoder theoretically speaking needs to keep up to 32K of the decoded output stream in memory (for backreferences), I don't really have space for that on the TI. < 1254944675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. i think it is, assuming you want to minimize expected time to find the kitten. not for instance going for a world record. < 1254944675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if deflate == gzip I thought it was seekable? < 1254944679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike bzip2 < 1254944679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1254944692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254944693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1254944697 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d908c9@gateway/web/freenode/x-vdhrwgnozncodxod JOIN :#esoteric < 1254944712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you have, at distance 10, to the right, one item, and to the left, at distance 20, a hundred items < 1254944715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really seekable, no. Though you can flush the encoder state to generate gzip files that you can seek in, in a limited fashion. < 1254944720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254944746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not quite TSP, right. < 1254944759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that too, although that probably isn't a counterexample < 1254944775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... pretty sure *.tgz are seekable < 1254944777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in that case it doesn't matter which way you go first < 1254944779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1254944779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike *.tar.bz2 < 1254944791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if tsp gives either way, then it doesn't solve optimally < 1254944794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is a counterexample < 1254944809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think you can seek an arbitrary DEFLATE stream. < 1254944829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why would "either way" be invalid? Lets say you have two points + your starting point < 1254944838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ask the algo profs, they usually know this stuff < 1254944843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are placed as an equilateral triangle < 1254944855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: going right is clearly stupid, because the kitten is probably to the left < 1254944856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it shouldn't matter which of those two points you visit first < 1254944863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes < 1254944875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one counterexample proves TSP isn't optimal. < 1254944896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I don't think you can seek an arbitrary DEFLATE stream. <-- hm ok, maybe it was block based or something < 1254944898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that solving TSP doesn't necessarily find an optimal solution to the problem < 1254944916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanozip brings messages.txt down to 7281, but I guess that's tricky to implement < 1254944989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a counterexample in which you actually have to go against tsp is when you have this large circle on the border of which you start, and on the opposite side there is a large cluster, tsp is solved by going round, RFK by moving right to the cluster, assuming |cluster| > big < 1254945013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254945045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anything that involves keeping the whole uncompressed messages.txt in memory (which is what happens for deflate with the 32k sliding window) will be tricky to implement, since there are no contiguous memory ranges big enough. < 1254945109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I already managed to waste 150 bytes of code in the simplified-deflate decoder. < 1254945192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NanoZip isn't Deflate < 1254945267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it doesn't sound any simpler either. I seems vaguely bzip2-related; at least BWT is mentioned there. < 1254945358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to nanozip? < 1254945379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanozip.net, right? < 1254945404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1254945421 0 :jix!n=jix@g224096126.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254945516 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, NanoZip is something complex, maybe even context mixing < 1254945522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see Encode.ru/forum/ (I don't remember the details) < 1254946038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, PAQ8L does 7286. < 1254946074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed that I got the best result on pretty much my first try (nanozip) < 1254946097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 programs later and this is the only one that even gets close :-P < 1254946146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hehe < 1254946203 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context mixing is pretty powerful < 1254946456 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, PAQ8L by default uses -5 (lots of RAM, slow) < 1254946471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used -9 :-) < 1254946477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy < 1254946480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cra-zy < 1254946488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 gigs or so IIRC < 1254946496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that's what it claimed, I didn't check. < 1254946594 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254946657 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right < 1254946670 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest fork of PAQ8 is PAQ8px < 1254946688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm trying that now < 1254946691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :original author (Matt Mahoney) is more focused on ZPAQv1, though < 1254946703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which ain't as good but less likely to break upon updates) < 1254946793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paq8px -6 and up does 7264! Yay! < 1254946799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for -9, which infloops < 1254946849 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254946865 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember, it might also support -mx6 (or -m6) < 1254946883 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that is default or not with -6, but I know it isn't active in lower (I think??) < 1254946893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, -9 isn't actually a supported flag, that'd explain it < 1254946939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use any -m* flags < 1254947009 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm thinking of paq8q (which isn't as good I think, mostly an uber-experimental port, testbed for better UTF-8 handling) < 1254947025 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254947042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCMX doesn't even come close at 8708 < 1254947097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.mattmahoney.net/dc/text.html < 1254947177 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should keep you busy :-) < 1254947246 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was seeing http://www.maximumcompression.com/data/text.php < 1254947388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that one pointed out durilca's -t switch < 1254947396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durilca -t2 -> 5855! < 1254947406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm happy with that < 1254947438 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.uclc.info might also be useful < 1254947460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than a third of the original < 1254948313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose any of those methods would create something I could easily extract specific bytes from, with the added restrictions that (1) they shouldn't really use more than a kilobyte or two of working memory, (2) the code shouldn't take much more space than my 150-byte deflate decoder, and (3) it would be something I could cobble together with my very shaky z80 asm skills in a day or two? < 1254948327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1254948349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For (1), I think these all use at least 30 megs or so < 1254948358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the good ones, anyway < 1254948403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzip2 -1 manages 8467 which might be doable < 1254948498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi there from scissor-switch keyboardism. < 1254948597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Cherry. I gather it should be good, then. < 1254948612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it feels quite satisfying to press a key, but I seem to be making errors. < 1254948665 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bzip2 -s is "small" (-2 slowly) < 1254948675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing, surely? < 1254948693 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paq8f -1 uses 21 MB (except on .JPG), I think, that's the least I know of offhand < 1254948706 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lpaq5 (?) and less can use 6 MB minimum < 1254948713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said -1 since -1 and -9 give the same result, and -1 presumably uses the least memory < 1254948721 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254948738 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for files < 900k it's the same, the author refuses to check filesize, assumes -9 by default < 1254948761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, it's just the block size < 1254948798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s "uses less memory (at most 2500k)" < 1254948837 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DURILCA completes too fast to be able to measure its memory usage < 1254948840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the modifier keys being too big is causing me troubles. < 1254948853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're trying out a new keyboard? < 1254948853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that capslock LED is fancy. < 1254948855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually bought one? < 1254948868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have a "use N MB memory" setting but it doesn't seem to do much < 1254948880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is in the possession of me, yes; I couldn't bear that Saitek one another second. < 1254948887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with -m2048 it says "out of memory", which I doubt is correct < 1254948898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Cherry, which make all those mechanical keyswitches, so I guuess it's high quality. < 1254948898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you have it before, or have you just obtained it? < 1254948907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that non-typed duplicated u makes me suspicious. < 1254948909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Latter. < 1254948913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Cherry? < 1254948915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's scissor-switch; what they put in laptop keyboards. < 1254948921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's not a mechanical one, alas. < 1254948935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the third time you've stated that < 1254948938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. < 1254948941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which keyboard model, not switch model < 1254948943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stream XT. < 1254948948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Desktop/G85-23100/index.htm < 1254948949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ML presumably) < 1254948968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, SX. < 1254948979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to know the difference. < 1254948983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I misremembered what ML are. < 1254949001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"duplicated u" ?? < 1254949015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's Cherry, which make all those mechanical keyswitches, so I guuess it's high quality. < 1254949022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me, seconds ago. < 1254949037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit, this thing is uber-sleek. < 1254949043 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, pic is of a German one?? < 1254949048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Media buttons ohnoes < 1254949052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a MacBook Air, but heavier and it only does typing! < 1254949059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Six discreet ones at thhe very top. < 1254949060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1254949062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uh oh.) < 1254949064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ohnoes! < 1254949072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I like changing my volume with a key. < 1254949080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people advertise plug & play on keyboards < 1254949083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any that /don't/ do that? < 1254949085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The media keys fail to be scissor-switch. < 1254949096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this duplication might be that my OS is set to repeat too quickly for this kb. < 1254949114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think very fast typing is lagging it, but is that just the placebo effect? I think it is. < 1254949127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like media keys < 1254949128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the keys are just chattering, in which case you should get it repaired or replaced. < 1254949131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use them to control media players < 1254949132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: If you double-click a word to highlight it in OS X, then hit delete, it deletes one of the adjacent spaces too. < 1254949133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handy. < 1254949141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1254949142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it seems fine. < 1254949147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1254949154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it could make a difference in a word processed or rich-text app) < 1254949165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1254949166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1254949166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if one of them was an unusual width) < 1254949174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it only does " " I think. < 1254949177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmm, pic is of a German one?? < 1254949185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cherry are a German company; it was like that on the box, too, which worried me a bit. < 1254949209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I seem to be typing quickly with this, so as soon as I get used to the sizes and positions of the relevant keys I should be happy. < 1254949216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the German layout keywise identical to UK? < 1254949222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QWERTZ. < 1254949227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are Z and Y the other way round on German keyboards? < 1254949231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, control, insert, home, etc all have different labels, which would be annoying. < 1254949231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keywise < 1254949233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems kind-of weird to swap just two keys < 1254949234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Idiocy. < 1254949236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes. < 1254949238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, ignoring the labels. < 1254949245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like my labels to be correct if I have any labels. < 1254949247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps because they use z, but not y? < 1254949252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Supposedly it makes typing faster, but it doesn't really. < 1254949253 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, they don't typically speak English ;-) < 1254949259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making QWERTY faster: laughable! < 1254949259 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"strg" -> "ctrl" (I think) < 1254949262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but QWERTY was originally designed to be slow... < 1254949263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, strg. < 1254949268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STRG C < 1254949270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because Z is more common than Y, especially next to T. < 1254949272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like... strong C. < 1254949275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am commanding you to exit. < 1254949277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it actually is slow, though < 1254949279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you should pessimize it further? < 1254949288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there's no reason to pessimize it nowadays < 1254949289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But the position where Y is in QWERTY isn't convenient to press at all. < 1254949290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i follow your logic < 1254949291 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant to be slow so the typewriters wouldn't jam < 1254949299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimising QWERTY isn't that simple... you have to basically rewrite it. < 1254949299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dvorak is faster (allegedly) < 1254949301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf Colemak < 1254949301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose german typewriters could have been pessimized < 1254949316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree, but that's the argument. < 1254949316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Dvorak is faster, slightly. More importantly, it causes a lot less hand strain. < 1254949330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that explains QWERTZ, what's the reason for AZERTY? < 1254949339 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless you never have to use any other keyboard (as if), it kills your QWERTY skills < 1254949343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares where each letter is, when the whole keys are scattered completely randomly anyway < 1254949347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Totally wrong. < 1254949353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about AZERTY. < 1254949358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the fastest typer in the world (recently deceased woman) used Dvorak to get like 220 wpm !! < 1254949363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: That's FUD, etc. < 1254949376 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUD! TROLL! STRAWMAN! EEE! < 1254949377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning Dvorak doesn't kill your QWERTY touchtyping; not typing in QWERTY kills your touchtyping. < 1254949380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254949390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, if you switch totally to Dvorak and only use it for months ou < 1254949395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1254949397 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean < 1254949403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AZERTY's the French-speaking layout, it swaps Q/A and Z/W w.r.t. QWERTY. < 1254949418 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that it's that big a deal, just you have to carry around your own keyboard or hope they support Dvorak layout in the OS (or whatever) < 1254949419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if QWERTY touchtyping matters, i.e. you have to use keyboards that aren't yours regularly, then it won't happen. < 1254949434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if such a situation is common like carrying around your keyboard would seem to imply... < 1254949434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant, I don't know the reasoning behind AZERTY. < 1254949439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't actually be needed. < 1254949453 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and BTW, I think certain apps (e.g. vi) are impossible to use under Dvorak < 1254949465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just reconfigure them < 1254949493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vi isn't exactly ergonomic with its key placement, as far as I know. < 1254949496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: some people play NetHack with the vi layour under Dvorak < 1254949502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that it prefers the home row for common operations. Take a look at where i is. < 1254949513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hjkl are pretty ergonomic for moving around < 1254949514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, hjkl suffer, but those are totally unintuitive to start with. < 1254949519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i isn't a common operation :-P < 1254949525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could say that less is hurt under Dvorak < 1254949529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vikeys NetHack < 1254949534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Err, sure it is? < 1254949537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on Colemak it's on the home row anyway, so shrug. < 1254949552 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254949576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not very common compared to some others IMO. < 1254949585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess a. < 1254949593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do f and j do? < 1254949596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, at least, often use c/s/a/i/o to get into insert mode. < 1254949598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, j is a moving operation. < 1254949601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But f? < 1254949605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That prime key is totally wasted. < 1254949614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what it does, but it probably isn't common. < 1254949614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f goes to the first occurance of letter specified < 1254949615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fX -> find next X on the current line < 1254949632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; why is that on one of the two easiest QWERTY keys to press? < 1254949634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t is the same thing but it goes to just before that letter. < 1254949643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, apart from hjkl, using Dvorak for vi won't change a thing. < 1254949645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's mnemonic < 1254949656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yep < 1254949680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine typing 200 wpm, even in Dvorak < 1254949694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to change vi's UI to be more like NetHack < 1254949695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Colemak and move 8 keys around, I think < 1254949704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have tX to do just before that lteter < 1254949707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*letter < 1254949715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I can type 100 wpm in QWERTY with a decent rubber dome keyboard. < 1254949716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f to go to just before whatever letter you had quivered < 1254949736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine typing 200 wpm, I just don't care to. Diminishing returns. I don't think at 100 wpm, so I usually end up typing slower than that. < 1254949755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to switch to Dvorak for the easier and less straining typing, though. < 1254949767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what if you were retyping a printed document, for some reason? < 1254949768 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the lady I mentioned was a former secretary, so I guess it was more important for her job < 1254949772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially because I use JKDF for navigation instead of HJKL and the rest is shuffling around to get back NEFT which were overwritten < 1254949792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't hold a whole document in memory; not even a whole paragraph. < 1254949805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're meant to read the document and type as you read < 1254949806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do that < 1254949807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latency introduced by having to look at a passage means that any typing over, oh, 50 wpm is fine. < 1254949810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than looking at the screen or keyboard < 1254949819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, yes. I mean that, < 1254949829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you don't read at 200wpm < 1254949830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stream out typing as fast as I look at the letters. < 1254949845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to recognise a letter, which I can do instantly, but not while concentrating on typing another leetter. < 1254949848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*letter (uhhhh ohhhh) < 1254949857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd < 1254949880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to concentrate to type letters? < 1254949883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, I can retype at about the speed I type out normal sentences, so it doesn't matter. < 1254949887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Subconsciously, sure. < 1254949923 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254949976 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254949991 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104 keys, aren't most Win keyboards 105? what does it miss? < 1254950005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll recite them! < 1254950016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESC, F1-F12, prt sc/sys rq, scroll, pause/break. < 1254950027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`, 1-0, -, =, backspace < 1254950028 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1254950034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254950037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab, (letters), [, ], enter < 1254950047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caps, letters, ; ' \ < 1254950049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254950051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caps, letters, ;, ', \ < 1254950066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift, §, leltters, ,, ., /, shift < 1254950074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control, windows, alt, space, alt gr, windows, menu, control < 1254950079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert, home, pageup, delete, end, pagedown < 1254950081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up, down, left, right < 1254950091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :num, /, asterisk, -, 7 8 9 + < 1254950095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 5 6 < 1254950097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 enter < 1254950099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 . < 1254950102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104 is the standard US layout with Windows keys, 105 the standard European, 109 the standard Asian < 1254950113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the US layout; $. < 1254950123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the European layout add? < 1254950141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1254950143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the European layout. < 1254950149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a pound key on my 3 key, not a #. < 1254950151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A non-letter next to left shift < 1254950158 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, the same thing as what does 102-key keyboard add to 101-key keyboard. < 1254950160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>| on most layouts, I guesss < 1254950164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yes, I have that. < 1254950165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s < 1254950179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's marked broken-| on top, \ on bottom. < 1254950181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not the US layout, and probably 105-key. < 1254950195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much, much, much prefer the US layout where the enter key is as big as backspace and only takes up one row. < 1254950199 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, keyboards are weird < 1254950199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where are " and @? < 1254950202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the | \ key is above enter. < 1254950208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that layout < 1254950221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In my OS? shift-2 and shift-second key after l. < 1254950231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1254950232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1254950233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap that < 1254950237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer the inverted-L enter key < 1254950243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In my OS? shift-second key after l and shift-2 < 1254950246 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254950250 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254950255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my keyboard? Shift-2 and shift-second key after l < 1254950256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(l = L) < 1254950260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You are of the devil. < 1254950266 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254950268 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shift-3 is pound but shift-4 is what? '$' ? < 1254950274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes < 1254950276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always hit the \ key on US layouts when I want to press enter < 1254950278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift-3 is # for me. < 1254950279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the inverted-L enter too; we are both of the devil, then. < 1254950280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the OS. < 1254950282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sounds like a mix of US and UK, then < 1254950283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the keyboard it's pound. < 1254950298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-3 is £ in OS X. < 1254950302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... shift-2 is @ in your OS? < 1254950304 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember inverted L being the mark of the beast < 1254950306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@#$%^&*()_+| < 1254950309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it'ss the US layout on my OS < 1254950312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THESE REPEATING KEYS < 1254950313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah < 1254950314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1254950315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEM < 1254950319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have a UK keyboard layout < 1254950322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do. < 1254950328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he lives in the UK < 1254950329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm turning off key repeat and seeing if it sstill happens. < 1254950333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, fuck this keyboard with a rake. < 1254950348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Seriously, see if you can repeat it by pressing just one button slowly < 1254950355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iBook OS X Finnish layout is quite a lot different than the Windows/Linux Finnish one, when it comes to things like \ and |. < 1254950355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, I am typing and hoping this shit doesn't happen because if it does awesomeness is great and nice. < 1254950365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no key repeating in my OS, and I am going to prove that it is my OS's settings. < 1254950366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully. < 1254950369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254950377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tra la la shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit bugger fuck maybe profaanities will-- < 1254950378 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X? < 1254950383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: aanities < 1254950387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to return a keyboard to cherry? < 1254950391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254950400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yeeessssssssss.................. < 1254950400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254950400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254950400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254950407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contact a customer service rep < 1254950409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Profane nanites. < 1254950414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somebody like that < 1254950415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Interact?! With... HUMANS?! < 1254950417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254950426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press Strg-Alt-SysReq R E I S U B < 1254950431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless they have a standard return form or whatever < 1254950435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you order it directly from them? < 1254950436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-. < 1254950441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Amazon. < 1254950442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: "Strg"? < 1254950445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: German ctrl. < 1254950450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Turbo + Macro + grey plus + altNumLock < 1254950452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the box it says strg because cherry are german,. < 1254950463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make some sort of evil keyboard driver that cancels out two identical keys in quick succession. < 1254950478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Windows comes with an accessibility tool to do that, I think < 1254950481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be the Trrue Hackeerly Solution(TM). < 1254950481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does Ubuntu < 1254950482 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably your OS, then, maybe you type too fast < 1254950483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1254950484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, twice in one message. < 1254950487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No, it isn't. < 1254950490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disabled key repeating. < 1254950492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep up. < 1254950501 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon might have something for returns < 1254950513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably do. < 1254950535 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just pressing too hard, not used to such sensitivity yet < 1254950561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in Ubuntu, it's Preferences | Assistive Technologies | Keyboard Accessibility | Ignore fast duplicate keypresses < 1254950564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it happens with /every/ key then probably that < 1254950583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although annoyingly, if you type, say, "exe" in it, it'll disregard the second e if it's too soon after the first e < 1254950591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you'd need to set it to a very short timeout, the way you type < 1254950593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I DISABLED KEY REPEAT IN MY OS < 1254950595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still happened < 1254950599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No key repeat = hold key, only types once. < 1254950604 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254950616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know for a fact I'm not tapping, releasing and tapping again because it makes a click and requires quite a bit of pressure to do that. < 1254950618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the keyboard. < 1254950637 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soorryy < 1254950652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I''m glad yoou're ssory. < 1254950674 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gooodd < 1254950687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actuation is after the tactile point, then? < 1254950691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=ignore+repeated+duplicate+key+presses+os+x&aq=f&oq=&aqi= ;; hmph < 1254950694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wat. < 1254950710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As soon as the depress and tick happens, the key sends. < 1254950724 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, two pounds thick, that's heavy < 1254950725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. you're sure it doesn't send the key before the click < 1254950730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254950734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't click; the clicking is it batting the frame. < 1254950743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It is indeed heavy. < 1254950747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's very thin. < 1254950751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with the keys. < 1254950754 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some netbooks are barely that heavy < 1254950761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most netbooks are about 1 pound. < 1254950764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 pounds. < 1254950774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't count the low-voltage proper-CPU craptops as neetbboos.) < 1254950780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^ legit errors, btw) < 1254950782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not faked) < 1254950794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254950795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The MacBook Air, which is a full notebook albeit a little underpowererd, weighs 3 pounds. < 1254950795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always double, not triiiple < 1254950812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no optical drive though, right? < 1254950813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm preparing to throw this thing out of the window. < 1254950815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: So what? < 1254950818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never use the optical drive. < 1254950825 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying, that's part of the reason < 1254950836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Actually, the optical drive was omitted for thinness reasons. < 1254950840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only weigh, like, 200-400 grams. < 1254950847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your keyboard has a 3 yr warranty, so don't throw it out just yet < 1254950855 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254950870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: II've used a keyboard which rrepeats for the passt few weeksss and you don't ssese me complaining eveen though it'ss a pain in the butt at times :-P < 1254950884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did order a new one, though) < 1254950898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should buy one of those fancy ThinkPad USB keyboards. < 1254950903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even come with the TrackPoint. < 1254950928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These flat keys do seem to be straining my hands less than the deeper fare. < 1254950977 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, only operates up to 40 C (104 F), what happens then? melts??? < 1254950992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The circuitry stops functioning? < 1254950997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, captain obvious to the rescue! < 1254951032 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104 F isn't that rare, but I guess the keyboard itself being that hot would be unlikely (Iraqi desert? Las Vegas?) < 1254951053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, 30 C is unbearably hot. < 1254951060 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40°C sounds pretty hot, yeah < 1254951070 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~30-35 is normal summer for me < 1254951075 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, how I like it < 1254951102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brr. < 1254951105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1254951106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1254951107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The opposite of brr./ < 1254951108 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 30 C outside here now (86 F) < 1254951115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Debian/kFreeBSD now has first-class status in there (severe bugs there are considered release blockers) < 1254951117 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I'm inside with a/c on < 1254951124 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:31:42] Brr. < 1254951125 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254951128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ~23C summers, ~17C normals. < 1254951135 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUch < 1254951138 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's around 0 here atm < 1254951140 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days < 1254951145 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer it warmer < 1254951147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 makes me want to die. < 1254951148 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254951148 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you're used to colder weather than I am, I'd bet < 1254951156 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wouldn't like a swedish winter < 1254951158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Britain, so pretty much yes by definition. < 1254951168 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, skiing is nice < 1254951174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: In Britain we have this thing called central heating < 1254951179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254951184 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1254951190 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, _inside_ :P < 1254951194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, clothes! < 1254951200 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1254951204 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254951211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clothes are overrated < 1254951223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just go out in the minus-celsius weather naked < 1254951224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been oscillating between 0 and 10 degrees Celsius around here last week. < 1254951231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A BIT CHILLY BUT OH WELL < 1254951231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's around 8°C out there right now < 1254951240 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish women can go topless in public pools now < 1254951247 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254951255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The can't? < 1254951258 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they* < 1254951262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to know why Rugxulo knows that. < 1254951272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: "can" < 1254951274 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news < 1254951276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtle difference < 1254951286 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1254951293 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point was, I don't think they can? < 1254951305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Current temperature at Otaniemi: 8.50 °C". I still look at the weather there at the university campus, since the address is so memorable ("outside.hut.fi"). < 1254951323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thefuckingweather.com/ < 1254951349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47°?! < 1254951349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS FUCKING ....ALRIGHT < 1254951352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WANTS FUCKING CELSIUS < 1254951358 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that's not celsius :P < 1254951358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT IN FUCKING ROCHESTER, NY < 1254951367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a FUCKING CHECK BUTTON < 1254951371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Check "I WANT FUCKING CELSIUS" < 1254951375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FUCKING CHECK < 1254951381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about 8 degrees, I guess. < 1254951385 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8°?! < 1254951389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7°?! But it's still "alright". < 1254951389 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like so < 1254951390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7°?! < 1254951391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS FUCKING ....ALRIGHT < 1254951391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen better days < 1254951412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the window open. Maybe I'm a cold cyborg. < 1254951415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 5-20 or so I think it says alright < 1254951422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FUCKING FORECAST < 1254951422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAY: Wed Thu < 1254951423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIGH: 11 11 < 1254951423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOW: 4 5 < 1254951423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORECAST: Partly Cloudy Partly Cloudy < 1254951428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In England our forecasts are so interesting. < 1254951434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTLY CLOUDY < 1254951437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubai, AE: "30°?! ITS FUCKING HOT" and then in a very tiny font: "So hot my dog developed sweat glands." < 1254951476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'Bout the same as here, then. < 1254951520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Showers Early; Partly Cloudy". It's not exactly identical, but it's not much more interesting either. < 1254951521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a reddit debate: "I think foo." "Physics disagrees." "Sure, but I think foo." "Physics disagrees." < 1254951572 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9rel6/i_am_a_cryonicist_when_i_die_i_will_be/c0e3j9l ) < 1254951582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stalker. < 1254951588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9rel6/i_am_a_cryonicist_when_i_die_i_will_be/c0e3p6y < 1254951591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant, more concise summary. < 1254951609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah, Internet debate. < 1254951623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, I know *physics* says that, but I never consented to physics!| < 1254951627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/l$/"/ < 1254951686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: FWIW that's a religious topic, physics says nothing. < 1254951719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am operating under the assumption of materialism < 1254951723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't know whether it'll be "just like you were unconscious through the suspension". < 1254951739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can; your neurons didn't fire, then they fired again. < 1254951743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, I'd state that assumption. < 1254951751 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1254951754 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"energy" < 1254951762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he assumes that. < 1254951767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X." "Y!" "X!" "YY!" "XXXX ZOMG!" < 1254951770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't generally state "hurr! I am not operating on the assumption of supernatural bullshit!", but sure, if it goes for another cycle. < 1254951777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Internet debate. < 1254951808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The topic /is/ supernatural bullshit. "I just feel like I am the constant flow of energy in my brain." < 1254951841 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, a continuous stream is how we feel, but this contradicts physics." is too, for that matter < 1254951845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I interpreted that as meaning the electrical impulses. < 1254951845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I feel like " is not really something you can argue with < 1254951852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess interpreting it as retarded bullshit makes more sense. < 1254951883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I feel " is also not really something you can argue with. < 1254951944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they said think, not feel./ < 1254951959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1254951968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He started with "feel". < 1254952005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254952018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably his New Age feelings turned into rational, coherent thought by the second post! < 1254952053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or presumably he didn't want to say "feel" twice in a row so he said "think" the second time instead. < 1254952070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhraps grogl. < 1254952421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you taken any of the compiler courses, by any chance? < 1254952804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, conditional endorsement for the Cherry Stream XT keyboard: if all of them repeat keys like this, stay away. If they don't, this is one kinda fine keyboard. < 1254952854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If they all suck, they all suck. If not, all except the ones that suck are good." < 1254952859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Could do with less having a numberpad! < 1254952862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: EXACTLY. < 1254952876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm happy with this, it's only occasionally annoying! Well actually quite often, but it hasn't happened once while typing this sentence! < 1254952885 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My keyboard used to repeat and drop Es too. (As well as dropping N and P.) < 1254952892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E=NP < 1254952897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine has got worse over time < 1254952899 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my keyboard drops nothing! < 1254952910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My keyboard drops your mom < 1254952920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first only one key chattered, then steadily more and more. < 1254952930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't you use one of those expensive mechanical keyboards < 1254952941 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this keyboard only gets better with time - especially if you compare it to newly produced keyboards < 1254952953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Model M? < 1254952958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :D < 1254952964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1254952969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buckling spring sux. < 1254952970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Actually quite cheap, but yeah :-P < 1254952977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Model M's keyboard layout sux < 1254952977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, buckling spring awesome < 1254952986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mechanical keyswitches, sure. < 1254952987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? it's standard? < 1254952990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buckling spring noooooooooooooooooooooo < 1254952996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You probably class cheap keyboard = <$1,000 :P < 1254953008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 5995 ¥ < 1254953009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've done one, but they've been rearranging those around a lot, or so I believe. < 1254953017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it 7995? I forget < 1254953020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much anyway < 1254953024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's wrong with the layout? < 1254953031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why did you buy a keyboard from Japan? < 1254953035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's expensive. :P < 1254953045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was cheap; the ass was in the shipping < 1254953050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the taxes on this end < 1254953052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very rare keyboard: 122-key Model M (yes, those exist). < 1254953055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the das keyboard is rather more, at 12,895 yen in Europe. < 1254953058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus shipping. < 1254953074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 122? is that one of the terminal keyboards? < 1254953079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.recycledgoods.com/zoom_s_p_20604_1.jpg.ashx < 1254953079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1254953083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I tried to send it back for repairs, which only improved the situation for a short time and also cost a shatload due to back-and-forth shipping :-P < 1254953083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that + formation < 1254953090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all of those useless keys! < 1254953100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's not 91-key :-P < 1254953125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly the US-type enter that you find on most buckling spring boards annoys me. < 1254953141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: From Japan because it's approximately the only place with acceptable keyboards. < 1254953160 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine has a large (upside-down-L) enter key < 1254953162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Korea is maybe another, haven't looked into it. < 1254953162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm curious now as to what it was. < 1254953174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FKBN91Z/NB < 1254953180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicomp, Das Keyboard, ... all of those are sold in, well, not-Japan. All I can think of is the Happy Hacking keyboard, which you've dissed. < 1254953183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've done "T-106.550 Ohjelmointikielen kääntäjät L", but I think that one is nowadays split into two parts (T-106.4200 + T-106.5450) and I'm not sure those two sum up to the same. < 1254953211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh, you went to japan just to avoid a number pad? :P < 1254953215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Das Keyboard is not numberpadless, Unicomp I can't remember exactly what I didn't like about them < 1254953221 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Also the key layout < 1254953229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What key layout? < 1254953233 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 122-key Model-M for PC. < 1254953235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91-key. < 1254953251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, it's split. Did you have to code a compiler in Java? < 1254953255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that implies, Deewiant . < 1254953258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Deewiant. < 1254953264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In Java, for "MiniJava", yes. < 1254953286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, then I don't get to rant and rave about how we have to and you didn't. < 1254953292 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Extremely rare. < 1254953304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is it still targeting Sparc? < 1254953309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I only have 102-key IBM keyboard). < 1254953325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87zeb How does this differ from yours? < 1254953331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lacks 4 keys, but what are they? < 1254953360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"**Fukka, pronounced foo-ka," < 1254953365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD NAME. BAD NAME! < 1254953382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Implies: inverted-L enter, small backspace to make way for a key, smaller space to make way for two more meta-type keyss < 1254953385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s < 1254953406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shitty enter, unusable backspace, unusable space... wow, it implies a shitty keyboard. < 1254953425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small size does not a key unusable make. < 1254953438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does when it's backspace. < 1254953449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when backspace is caps lock. < 1254953458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... yes. < 1254953470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really backspace that often? :P < 1254953493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really caps lock that often? :-P < 1254953518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I backspace more than I press any other key that I'd put there < 1254953524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I don't think backspace is the best thing to put there. < 1254953526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1254953529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put tab there. < 1254953537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For tab-completion, etc. < 1254953538 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab is close enough as-is < 1254953560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, how about.... < 1254953562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1254953564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, sure. < 1254953568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254953585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW ABOUT A MEDIA KEY < 1254953591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about... NO < 1254953601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You press the key and it pops up a dialog with the text "NO" < 1254953603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Das Keyboard had some key issues that were discussed on geekhack, I forget what they were < 1254953605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is thhte NO key < 1254953606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1254953613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Squeaking? < 1254953616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in the results? < 1254953621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results < 1254953716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Unicomp's boards have a groove on caps lock < 1254953738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have numpads, of course. < 1254953768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of them. < 1254953780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that doesn't isn't buckling spring. < 1254953782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, they use the exact same design as the Model M for the most part. < 1254953792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The springs, the layout, the circuitry everything. < 1254953794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y, < 1254953806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and that's unacceptable. :-P < 1254953827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz buckling spring sucks? IF SO I AGREE < 1254953834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html has the One True Layout, though, < 1254953836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though. < 1254953838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filco's keyboards are fairly close to optimal but too bad the Z series is a crapshoot < 1254953839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans the numpad. < 1254953844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, jusut the main section. < 1254953849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the space could be bigger. < 1254953878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blue Cherries might be nice but those don't come in tenkeyless form. (Except for the one US dealer who had them special-ordered... in US layout only, of course) < 1254953894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/Filco's / < 1254953904 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254953915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing with the tactile but non-clicky switches is that I'd feel compelled to bottom every key out so I can hear it. < 1254953920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is no good. < 1254953934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with bottoming out IMO < 1254953946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hand strain. < 1254953948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blues are clicky anyway < 1254953964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicky but non-tactile switches are funny; I think they exist. < 1254953977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Want a noisy keyboard? Don't want this to help you in any way?" < 1254953989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, non-clicky non-tactile, sure, the mechanical switches help... but why add useless noise? < 1254954021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254954027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome concept < 1254954048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like mobile phone cameras that simulate a mechanical clicking sound when you use them? < 1254954059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for legal reasons, isn't it < 1254954069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: They exist, though < 1254954071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't take a picture in secret < 1254954081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Don't they all do that? < 1254954087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1254954089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what? < 1254954101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cameras play a sound < 1254954109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about cameras < 1254954122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the Cherry MX Black is a non-tactile, non-clicky switch--which is to say it is linear and does not transmit a bump to the user's fingertip when pressed and it does not provide an audible click. The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown. < 1254954124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How boring. < 1254954130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The combinations are all sensible. < 1254954142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my clicky non-tactile switches! < 1254954146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said you think they exist and now you say they exist < 1254954156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they exist, personally :-P < 1254954158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you're talking about < 1254954159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't < 1254954163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they did though < 1254954169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-08 00:21:49 ( ehird) I'm not talking about cameras < 1254954176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE SO FUCKING CONFUSING SHUT UP. < 1254954177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254954178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you had to be talking about the key switches < 1254954181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS < 1254954183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS CONFUSED < 1254954184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STFU < 1254954186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIAF < 1254954187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1254954198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps to not use "they" all the time. < 1254954206 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1254954211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say it does. < 1254954214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps not to use your mom all the time, Deewiant, but I don't see you heeding that advice. < 1254954219 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, do they? < 1254954225 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a point < 1254954244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're sane, but they are retards.s < 1254954262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd trust them over them, because they are just crazy, but they could alleviate that problem a bit with their help. < 1254954292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using "they" twice in the same clause referring to different entity groups is just fucked up, though. < 1254954314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never made a single message talking about cameras before you accused me of doing so. < 1254954361 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254954367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why we still use staggered keyboard layouts. < 1254954376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, guize, we're not using typewriters here? < 1254954390 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a Dvorak variant :) < 1254954395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "they exist, though" after I posted about cameras; having previously said "they exist" re. keyswitches I figured "they" had to be cameras < 1254954408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH < 1254954408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STFU < 1254954419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They exist" wrt cameras didn't really make sense in context, so blah! < 1254954446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't make much sense in any context so I picked the most recent as most likely < 1254954447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why do people use Colemak? It's a total compromise. < 1254954457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compromise? < 1254954478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's designed to be a mid-way point that's easier for QWERTY users to learn, and panders to WIMP applications' default keyboard shortcut set. < 1254954485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem a sane long-term solution to me. < 1254954519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's designed as highly optimized while not differing from QWERTY where sensible < 1254954544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or more like "differing as little as possible" < 1254954551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that better than Dvorak, which is slightly more revolutionary but designed based on typing speed rather than the status quo? < 1254954563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Colemak is supposedly better optimized. < 1254954583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that being said anywhere. < 1254954601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak.com :-P < 1254954607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Incidentally, some Colemak advocates are weird: < 1254954608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Colemak uses the home row 14% more than Dvorak, and 122% more than QWERTY < 1254954609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Dvorak your fingers move 10% more…and on QWERTY 102% more than Colemak" < 1254954609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1254954613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :102% less finger movement! < 1254954638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is 102% more than Y does not mean that Y is 102% less than X < 1254954638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Percents don't work that way, mmkay? < 1254954656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking. < 1254954664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1254954665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's oddly phrased at first sight. < 1254954746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: An argument I think I saw on colemak.com was that with Colemak they had the advantage of having computers (Dvorak being too old for this) so they could just run shit on lots of text and calculate what works better < 1254954780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt such a script would produce something so similar to QWERTY; they have clearly crippled it to retain similarity. < 1254954798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that was done experimentally with a Dvorak typist on themselves, remember? End result was not that much changed from Dvorak, and not any faster. < 1254954799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it still beats Dvorak. < 1254954812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Dvorak is pretty optimal by chance. < 1254954817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, y'know, by reasoned design. < 1254954824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That"? < 1254954850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a computer change shit according to typing patterns and analyse the results. < 1254954857 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remapping only the QWERTY letters region? That would retain lot of similarity... < 1254954901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I didn't say a computer was the one changing shit < 1254954912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom changes shit. :| < 1254954929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without seeing the algo I can't comment; local maxima are likely < 1254954936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they started from QWERTY and got near-Dvorak then that's interesting < 1254954964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They started from Dvorak, and the end optimal result was a little different from Dvorak, and not better enough to bother deviating from the standard. < 1254954982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is they got stuck in a local optimum. < 1254954987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "Let's see how I can type better. Computer analyses, changes, he adjusts, types a bit, computer analyses, repeat." < 1254955023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, interesting tidbit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blickensderfer_typewriter had the keys DHIATENSOR on the bottom row, those being the most common letters in English < 1254955045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rearranging that to ARSTDHNEIO gives the Colemak home row. < 1254955053 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoteric language ETA uses ETAOINSH due to popular usage < 1254955058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etaoin shrdlu. < 1254955074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colemak obviously started with that due to its famousosity. < 1254955083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it famousous? < 1254955084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's some disagreement on what the actual most common letters araer.) < 1254955089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes. < 1254955106 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, never seen Wheel of Fortune? R S T L N E ;-) < 1254955108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which "it"? < 1254955117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No, I haven't. < 1254955141 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etaoin shrdlu is the actual order < 1254955142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess who else never saw wheel of fortune < 1254955143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitler < 1254955143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, I didn't find out about the Blickensderfer until months after I started with Colemak :-P < 1254955165 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254955236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colemak.com/Compare has a Java applet for statisfaction < 1254955345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java applet[…text not including 'not'…]satisfaction" < 1254955346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ಠ_ಠ < 1254955351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: As far as being crippled due to QWERTY similarity... I'm honestly not sure I'd want to move anything in Colemak, the similarity is mostly in rare letters < 1254955367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: statisfaction, not satisfaction < 1254955374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops :P < 1254955374 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254955384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, satisfaction through statistics. < 1254955387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254955394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's still a type of satisfaction. < 1254955403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you mean the core dump of Java's statistics. < 1254955419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 October: http://lonelydino.com/?id=50 | 7 October: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1568 | Coincidence? I THINK NOT. < 1254955422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java doesn't dump core much < 1254955488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh hhh < 1254955507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think that's the most surreal Dinosaur Comic for a while < 1254955525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in a while < 1254955540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably find text in which Dvorak trumps Colemak according to those stats but it seems rare enough that I'd rather stick with Colemak < 1254955557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:06:56 to ehird when he joins: the power supply on my thinkpad turned out to be too weak to both charge the battery and sustain a heavy load (both cores at 95% or more, 3D graphics). It could sustain the load itself (so the battery didn't discharge, but nor did it charge) < 1254955557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:07:09 since he was considering a thinkpad he may be interested in this < 1254955566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, especially since I'll be using a 9/12-cell + 3-cell ultrabay battery < 1254955568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll buy a beefy charger < 1254955572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 95W or something < 1254955573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messing with the number keys like the original Dvorak did could be cool, though < 1254955597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Based on what, the statistical commonness of digits? :P < 1254955601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems shaky. < 1254955615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that < 1254955626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aitnesloku" is the "etaoin shrdlu" phrase for Finnish; or at least the common one that's been going around, I have no clue whether it's actually from a sufficiently large corpus. < 1254955629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard#Original_Dvorak_layout < 1254955640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 5 3 1 9 0 2 4 6 8 < 1254955640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:16:49 Rugxulo, how long after that will 9.04 be supported? < 1254955640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:16:56 I hope at least a month or so < 1254955644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 9.10 will be stable upon release. < 1254955659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is of the same stability stature as 9.04, so. < 1254955698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or flipping so that the digits need shift and () etc don't. < 1254955713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's sane < 1254955714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:29:45 game theory is hard. < 1254955714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:30:15 oklokok, calculating limits is even harder.... *sigh* < 1254955716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lol'd < 1254955722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not really, but i lol'd inside and grinned < 1254955751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limits tend to be fairly trivial < 1254955757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when they're not < 1254955772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in Sweden you're still on basic arithmetic when you enter university or something < 1254955797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limits are "basic arithmetic" now? < 1254955876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's in uni < 1254955882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm joking < 1254955892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But AnMaster *has* commented that Swedish mathematics education is ridiculously terrible, so. < 1254955899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware he's in uni and I'm not sure what that has to do with anything :-P < 1254955903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the third source comic link on that lonely dino strip is not working. also, why the heck are you going via google? < 1254955914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., he's gone past basic arithmetic in uni to limits < 1254956051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Because the comic numbers don't correspond to the numbers in the file. < 1254956070 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Except in the rare cases when google won't do it, this method gives a much more useful comic number. < 1254956100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rare? i checked and it happened for a source in the previous lonely dino too < 1254956104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ask North to give a reverser script thing :-P < 1254956111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Rare? WHAT IT'S A WHOLE TWO < 1254956117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it possibly be rare, it happened twice. < 1254956127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a 1/3 hit rate on my experimenting < 1254956133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a hit < 1254956150 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3 miss rate from your two experiments. < 1254956172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: re: compression - why use a generic algo? < 1254956182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of the text is word, word, punctuation, space separated, right? < 1254956188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tally up the most common words, go from there. < 1254956193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shorthand, basically. < 1254956221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the second one is not quite as bad, it does give the link but doesn't go directly to it < 1254956361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shared dictionary for the messages might help, though I doubt that'd save so incredibly much space. It's basically what deflate would do (building the dictionary as it goes along) if I were to actually compress all the messages as a single block. < 1254956386 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_Fortune_(U.S._game_show) < 1254956394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of Wheel of Fortune < 1254956397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Eh! Link me; I'm reduce the fuck out of that size. < 1254956400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'ma < 1254956401 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never seen it?? < 1254956407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1254956434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played the DOS game and possibly seen parts of a Finnish equivalent < 1254956444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/rfk86/ and messages.txt. < 1254956448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Mr Berlusconi insists he should not be 'distracted' from governing < 1254956449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Italy's Constitutional Court has overturned a law granting Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi immunity from prosecution while in office. < 1254956449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1254956449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We must govern for five years with or without the law."]] < 1254956456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was Deewiant's final compression score on that? < 1254956476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5855 < 1254956479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A million bux and a 1.7GiB of RAM? < 1254956502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 4M supposedly < 1254956506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: logo.png; what's with the "Your job is []"? < 1254956513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RAM, that is, not bux) < 1254956520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The [] is the robot from the row above. < 1254956530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut < 1254956532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... maybe not so clear. < 1254956541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254956559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, that text antialiasing on the name... that's done by flickering? < 1254956561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, "you are robot"; and the robot is denoted with the [] character. < 1254956565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that actually, you know, works, visually. < 1254956583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, the screen response rate is so slow. < 1254956598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that just make it look bold and blocky in slow alternation < 1254956613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not that slow < 1254956621 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exit to play" < 1254956623 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense :D < 1254956629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clear to play, no? < 1254956632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Actually it's now "clear to play". < 1254956636 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254956637 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254956643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The screenshot png there is an old one, which says "exit". < 1254956647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254956657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a screenshot, is it, having greyscale pixels? < 1254956671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an emulator screenshot. < 1254956679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The emulators emulate the grayscale; it's so common. < 1254956682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1254956697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it does work quite well on the hardware. < 1254956715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, processing power for decoding doesn't really matter does it? I mean, the primary constraint is RAM. As long as it's instant on a modern computer... < 1254956719 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-86... < 1254956750 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM: 128 KB, 96 KB user-accessible <-- ow, a lot < 1254956755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested quantifiers in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/...thingy??? <-- HERE < 1254956763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--perl < 1254956777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, it's something like a thousand times slower (and restricted to 8-bit operations), so "instant on a modern computer" can stretch quite a lot. < 1254956783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yees. < 1254956785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1254956794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be simpler than deflate, anyway. < 1254956796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1254956837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... Perl's function join does the opposite of split, right? < 1254956839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I using Perl. < 1254956844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing this in Python. < 1254956850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: The "user-accessible" remark is pretty strange; what it means is that 96 KB is the amount which is used for the "filesystem" where the calculator stores all variables and programs; the remaining 32K is used for running programs (and the OS). < 1254956912 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of it can ASM programs allocate? Still only the "user-accessible" part? < 1254956919 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a USB slot for his TI-82 < 1254956938 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause TI-BASIC is UTTERLY SLOW < 1254956962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well. < 1254956968 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Ander D'Nar wrote one for TI-8x already < 1254956991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one 16K page (page 1) that is mostly empty that an asm program can use as scratch space, and there are a few holes on the permanently mapped 16K page (page 0); there's something like 8 K in which it loads the program to execute, and some other places you can use more or less safely. < 1254956994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This$ $is$ $the$ $tenth$ $key$ $you$'$ve$ $found$ $so$ $far$.$ < 1254956996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So easy to read. < 1254957031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But the rest of the holes are a lot smaller; there's one kilobyte used by the graph screen copy, that's probably the biggest one of them. < 1254957042 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oki < 1254957059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's$ $a$ $Cat$ $5$ $cable$.$ < 1254957059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's$ $a$ $U$.$S$.$$ $president$.$ < 1254957061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing, really. < 1254957076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to strip out those spaces and make them just part of the separator in the serialisation. < 1254957103 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you doing, grabbing the [\w']+'s? < 1254957110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages = sys.stdin.read().split('\n') < 1254957111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :split_msgs = [re.split(r'([ .!?"])', msg) for msg in messages] < 1254957111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print '\n'.join('$'.join(msg) for msg in split_msgs) < 1254957115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course if you're willing to code your program so that it can do a VAT (variable allocation table) lookup, you can put stuff in user-visible variables. But there's only 64K addressable on the processor; the memory is mapped in 16K pages, and it's a bit iffy to handle things that cross page boundaries. < 1254957115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to optimise by word, basically. < 1254957136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. < 1254957141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. < 1254957141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1254957142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approaching$.$$ $$ $One$ $car$.$$ $$ $J$.$$ $$ $Followed$ $by$.$$ $$ $Two$ $car$.$$ $$ $M,$ $M$.$$ $$ $In$ $five$.$$ $Minutes$.$ < 1254957147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is up with those $$s, I wonder? < 1254957149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remember to count your dictionary size in the compression results. < 1254957157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if$ < 1254957158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1254957163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Naturally. < 1254957179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It could be included in the decompression code to save some cycles. < 1254957206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not more than a kilobyte or so. < 1254957209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254957232 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254957234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's$ $a$ $blatant$ $plug$ $for$ $Ogg$ $Vorbis$,$$ $http://www$.$vorbis$.$com/ < 1254957236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to sleep < 1254957240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously those URLs are going to be non-optimal... < 1254957249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll omit the dictionary for fnords, obviously. < 1254957253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= Singular appearances.) < 1254957267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that'd likely come out with http://www, vorbis, and com/ literally. < 1254957285 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254957305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 vorbid < 1254957307 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vorbis < 1254957319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh. Lossy compression is dead to me for new encodes. < 1254957343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Vorbis is probably not patent-free because nothing is. < 1254957347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you should always have at least one lossless copy, but it's not what you want to be throwing around < 1254957354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1254957357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disk is cheap. < 1254957364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: whenever [ .!?"] matches two chars in sequence, you get an empty string as part of the split, i think < 1254957367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And CD doesn't count as a lossless copy, btw.) < 1254957369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "throwing around", I mean the Internet < 1254957372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah. You are indeed correct. < 1254957373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is not lossless < 1254957378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it + < 1254957385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDs are only not lossless because it's so easy to damage them. < 1254957395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disks with backups and SSDs (failure mode doesn't lose data) are lossless. < 1254957414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The$ $non-kitten$ $item$ $bites$!$ < 1254957415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow :( < 1254957433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh idea < 1254957442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lossy backup < 1254957445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :P < 1254957502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, digital isn't lossless < 1254957516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to analogue master < 1254957517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is any analog storage mechanismm. < 1254957519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mechanism < 1254957523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254957531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I hope you're not one of the "Vinyl sounds better than CD" folk...) < 1254957551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm one of those "live wins over both" < 1254957569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming decent volume levels < 1254957572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Live music is hardly *more* polished than a recording. < 1254957596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't have shouting fans at a classical concert < 1254957600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we go by authenticity, realising it in the actual platonic space of concepts and ideas is the best way to listen to music. < 1254957604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So? < 1254957605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and volume is sane < 1254957616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is quite well polished indeed < 1254957630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but a studio recording is hardly ever going to be less polished. < 1254957635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254957661 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mp3 is worse than CD quality, but nobody complains < 1254957707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking 128kbps CBR mp3s? < 1254957715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254957717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, sure, I can't tell the difference most of the time, but eww. Just eww. < 1254957719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .mp3 is worse than CD quality, but nobody complains <-- I do. < 1254957720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use flac < 1254957734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo is using "complains" to mean "can tell the difference". < 1254957743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it would be unwise to challenge that, as it's almost certainly true.) < 1254957750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on encoder < 1254957752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame? no < 1254957759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other ones? yes < 1254957764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, Frauhnhofer or whatever at 128 will be ridiculously bad. < 1254957772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-V2 with a recent LAME is great, though. < 1254957781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, lossless is fine. < 1254957788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. flac :D < 1254957799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ALAC, but that's only because iTunes can't do FLAC non-retardedly. < 1254957808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically FLAC, but proprietary and larger. < 1254957820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I also have mp3s because pirates can't generally be picky. < 1254957832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, larger == fail for compression < 1254957842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not larger than the original soucre. < 1254957844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*source < 1254957846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just larger than FLAC. < 1254957852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1254957853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to be expected, because FLAC is the king of lossless compression sizes. < 1254957854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1254957865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few megs don't matter at these sizes. :P < 1254957872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254957898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A$ $number$ $of$ $short$ $theatrical$ $productions$ $are$ $indexed$ $1$, $2$, $3$, ... $n$.$ < 1254957908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I'm not sure having ", ... " as one symbol makes sense. < 1254957911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh; probably doesn't matter. < 1254957923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can the TI-86 handle non-byte aligned stuff? < 1254957933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason not to have "a" or "the" be two bits, right? :P < 1254957962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it won't be very seekable. I could align at seek points. < 1254958019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you considered antialiasing victory.png? It is rather unsightly. < 1254958246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to find a way to keep a window on top but make sure it doesn't get any mouse clicks < 1254958376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active window != top window. < 1254958393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a sloppy-focus WM, raise said window, hover over another. < 1254958396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1254958420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254958422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, but I don't think KDE will do that < 1254958431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwin is just one window manager. < 1254958436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can replace it with another, temporarily or not. < 1254958443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE doesn't depend on kwin. < 1254958449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sorry, meant kwin < 1254958463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not worth my effort to find a wm that will do that and just use it temporarily < 1254958463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you could use the other WM and then replace it with kwin without moving the mouse. < 1254958466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veeery carefully. < 1254958471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm does it. < 1254958473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already have it. < 1254958486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1254958495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find your distro's packaging disturbing. < 1254958683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Star Wars reference?) < 1254958705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's practically osmosified itself into general internet lingo by now, but yess. < 1254958707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1254958863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Safari has an "uncrash" button < 1254958933 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"advertising, advertising, advertising ... fix Vista ... advertising, adver ..." < 1254958934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so true) < 1254958947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, another Notational Velocity release? < 1254958963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world as we know it may be over. Say your goodbyes. < 1254959012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It can handle non-byte-aligned stuff approximately as well as any other byte-addressing processor. Anyway, the deflate-like stream is already composed of variable-length Huffman-coded symbols, that don't even pretend to be byte-aligned. I just align each separate message to start at a byte boundary. < 1254959022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right. < 1254959027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I don't think I'll bother antialiasing victory.png; it's animated, anyway, that sort of makes up for it. < 1254959053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animate it by just changing the colours of pixels; after all, the flickering will antialiase it differently. < 1254959056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like subpixel movement! < 1254959079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, one frame just changes the colours of some of the antialiasing, the next moves the frame. It looks like a three-fame movement, but it isn't! Sort of. < 1254959173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'll probably try doing something like adding a dictionary of the most common substrings over the whole messages.txt, and changing the LZ77 repeat-pair encoding so that it can refer either to the output or the fixed dictionary; that should be a reasonable compromise method. But not today. < 1254959194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a word-based approach will work best; it is English, after all. < 1254959239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word-based approach is just a special case of a substring-based approach, really; if words are what are repeated, then words are what will end up in the dictionary. < 1254959260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but. < 1254959262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, never mind. < 1254959352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I like about LZ77 is that it pretty elegantly includes also run-length-encoding as a special case (with a length > 1 and distance = 1 pair); that makes a difference because I got bored of Z80 assembly and did line-wrapping with Perl, padding things with spaces so that they wrap properly in the message area. < 1254959638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254959641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And replying to a comment ages ago in the backscroll, Ander D'Nar did not write one for "TI-8x", no matter how much it might say so on the news page; his version is for TI-83+ and TI-84+ (which really is pretty much identical) only, not the TI-86. < 1254959667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have been doing the port if it existed already. < 1254959708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the robotfindskitten.org people aren't answering my emails (well, email), so... < 1254959745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been whole DAYS! < 1254959900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1254959916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall be mailbombing them very soon now to teach them just who they're dealing with. < 1254959951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In other words, I'll send a second email when I get the official rfk86 web page up.)