< 1255132926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1255133850 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1255133855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1255133862 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255134625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW TF DID I MISS THAT THERE WAS NEW OOTS NINE HOURS AGO?!?!? < 1255134629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wibble* < 1255134802 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1255134892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255135107 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255135150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I've turned into a keyboard nerd. < 1255135311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mechanical switches, doo doo doo doo/Maker is Cherry, doo doo doo doo/Which is better, brown or blueeeeeeee?/I don't know, who gives a who this song is crap < 1255135343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1255135371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1255135389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what augur < 1255135394 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1255135404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1255135406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1255135408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavily < 1255135409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time < 1255135411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dilated < 1255135416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur! < 1255135419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what keyboard do you use < 1255135431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which computer keyboard? < 1255135436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1255135483 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an apple keyboard. i rather like it. < 1255135488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its small, minimalist. < 1255135537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007 model, I presume. < 1255135557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which they use, but it's either rubber dome or scissor-switch; as it is identical to their notebook keyboards, probably scissor-switch. < 1255135568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Heretic. Burn at the stake. You are not fit to exist in the legion of true keyboards. < 1255135586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm like a gay-bashing republican, typing this from a scissor-switch x( < 1255135587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont care about your "true keyboards" < 1255135600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1255135606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing capitalization and punctuation. < 1255135609 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on you! < 1255135615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I'm not? < 1255135623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are < 1255135632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"republican" should be capitalized < 1255135639 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you missed a period at the end of your sentence. < 1255135653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't slept for >24 hours, gimme a break. < 1255135658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never! < 1255135664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gimme"?! < 1255135666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not english! < 1255135669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonder I'm not going "i havent slept for>24 hrs" < 1255135675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes it is. < 1255135681 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not < 1255135683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X accepts it. < 1255135692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provides a definition for it, what nnot. < 1255135694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1255135801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Story of the butterfly: ah open window. me no likely rain. shiny, ooh, is that a fruit on it, no, looks like plastic, anyway, oh, what's this little slot next to the huge hard brick *promptly falls down* i will just sit here now < 1255135809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is using american english < 1255135812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not american < 1255135812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. < 1255135815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set it to British English. < 1255135820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1255135829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the way you're thinking. < 1255135841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much so < 1255135844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Preferences → International → Drag "British English" to the top. < 1255135849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not changing the keyboard layout. < 1255135855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt matter < 1255135863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1255135864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't give a fuck. < 1255135867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was wrong < 1255135869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gimme" is a word < 1255135871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning < 1255135875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a short putt in golf" < 1255135877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just prefer British spelling in most cases, it flows better. < 1255135880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "something easily achieved or won" < 1255135890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not, however, a standard accepted contraction of "give me" < 1255135911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered that there is a difference between a prescriptivist and someone who uses punctuation and capitalisataiton? < 1255135919 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse, it is an overwhelmingly COMMON contraction of "give me", but that doesnt matter < 1255135926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered that there isnt? < 1255135941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Language Log is written by a prescriptivist. < 1255135944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're a dumbass, btw.) < 1255135973 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse theres a difference between using punctuation and capitalization, but you're not merely using them < 1255135979 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you apparently complain when i _dont_ use them < 1255135987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /is/ prescriptivism. < 1255135992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because your text takes longer for me to read that way. < 1255135995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the most yawningly facile sort, ofcourse < 1255136000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh bullshit it does not you liar < 1255136006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gtg lol kthx2u ;)" is also overwhelmingly common, but it is not readable. < 1255136009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I am not lying. < 1255136010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just a little twat < 1255136029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1255136201 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1255136236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what, what? < 1255136248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the butt. < 1255138923 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255139760 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1255139880 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1255139882 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1255140811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I know all 'bout keyboards, time to research MICE! < 1255140979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to try Tremulous
< 1255141556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for you < 1255142938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255143629 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255145556 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255145558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a CPU architecture, called 16X, with bytes that are 16-bits long. < 1255145562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0textfile/processor/16x.cpu < 1255145818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't use gopher links. < 1255145840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is netcat usable? < 1255145865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use echo textfile/processor/16x.cpu | nc zzo38computer.cjb.net 70 > 16x.cpu.txt < 1255145873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1255145899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long instructions; I like long instructions. < 1255145923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a 15-second skim, I like this. < 1255146002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is HOAX named that intentionally? :) < 1255146024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually a abbreviation for "High Octet AX" < 1255146028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1255146054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It occurs to me that a major blocker for switching to Macs is that there is no elegant, usable, Mac-like Gopher software for OS X! < 1255146075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I be using such a useless OS? It's practically a toy now that I realise this lack :-D < 1255146107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, that makes it completely useless? < 1255146119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely, I'm sure you'll agree. < 1255146132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the lack of a Commodore 64 emulator by default was crippling enough! < 1255146170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure some such software must exist. Even if it doesn't, it is UNIX based which means netcat is usable for gopher (and many other protocols too, such as whois, finger, etc.) < 1255146174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?a=gopher%3A%2F%2Fzzo38computer.cjb.net%3A70%2F works, btw. < 1255146187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1255146195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think there's any OS X gopher software as opposed to stuff depending on you running the X11 server application < 1255146199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be fun to write < 1255146217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have extensions so I can be cool like Firefox and support your silly fun Gopher scripting stuff. < 1255146226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also bashgopher, which works in any system with bash (even MinGW) < 1255146240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a extension for Firefox to support gopher protocol better, called Overbite. < 1255146256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overbite is from the same people as that gopher/http bridge. < 1255146285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But honestly, how on earth can we expect Mac users to navigate Gopher without a sleek, hand-crafted point-and-click interface?! < 1255146314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what does Steve Jobs do when he wants to consider switching to your new CPU architecture, eh? :-P < 1255146350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steve Jobs doesn't need to switch to my new CPU architecture. It is just a hobby, like Magic-1 was made just because they wanted to and no other use. < 1255146375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't rule out the possibility. < 1255146379 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, gopher is easily accessed without any dedicated client using the UNIX command-line, even though that isn't point-click (WIMP) interface. < 1255146390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking about all of this, by the way < 1255146397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the actually making it part; that'd be vaguely amusing. < 1255146426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ya, of course. < 1255146459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher + the Cocoa API even gives the oh-so-catchy name Gophocoa. < 1255146475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1255146505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use Vonkeror for gopher browsing, it is a web-browser with gopher support built-in, too, but anything else works just as well) < 1255146526 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess, if a gopher client is made with Cocoa API then it should be called Gophocoa, for this purpose! < 1255146547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep mentally tripping over Gophocoa and pronouncing it Gophococoa :-P < 1255146550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I wrote Bash Gopher, now I also have to write Zeux Gopher and Frob Gopher. < 1255146571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, from the "echo textfile/processor/16x.cpu | nc zzo38computer.cjb.net 70" line, I assume that Gopher's only command is "get this file"? < 1255146584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is gopher's only command. < 1255146592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice and simple. What's the index called? < 1255146605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The root directory index is just send a blank line. < 1255146614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I figured that out a second before you said it < 1255146622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's extensions like being able to submit form input or whatever, isn't there? < 1255146650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is Gopher+ ASK forms. However, it isn't common, and it is completely optional, like it should be. < 1255146665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1255146689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As my sleep-deprived self inches closer and closer to inevitable sleep, I guess I have nothing better to do than to write a Gopher index parser. < 1255146692 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror supports ASK forms, however not many sites use it, and I don't use them myself either. < 1255146741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the first character on the line (what's the difference between 1 and h? does h mean non-gopher link?) the directory list format seems extremely simple - namedirectoryserverport < 1255146813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have been thinking of another completely optional feature, a simpler way to submit form data, called "editable gopher". After the selector string, instead of a CRLF you put a STX character, followed by the data to send and a EOT at the end. The old version is taken from just doing a normal request, and then you edit it in a text editor and send it this way. You should be able to easily write a short shell-script to add these headers < 1255146844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suggest encoding end-of-lines instead < 1255146846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ending with CRLF < 1255146851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, it's backwards-compatible < 1255146861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just shows up as a ridiculous filename to unsupporting servers if you do thaht) < 1255146863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first character on the line is the type code. 1 is menu, 0 is plain text, h is HTML (not commonly used, and not recomended for most purposes), 7 is query, etc < 1255146863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1255146900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The common ones are 1 0 7 9 which should be supported by the simplest clients. 9 is download binary file < 1255146918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "query" < 1255146921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the gopher client is built-in to a web browser, the h type should also be supported, and also g and I types (g=GIF image, I=any image) < 1255146939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I assume the first character is only useful for e.g. displaying an icon relevant to that type? < 1255146943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A query is, after the selector string you send a TAB followed by the query text (a single line of text input from the user) < 1255146947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'd infer any types from the contents of the file you got back, presumably. < 1255146961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, gopher:// links could differ from clicking links, which would be Freaky. < 1255146964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the first character is used also for the client to know what type of file it is. < 1255146973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, gopher links include the type, don't they? < 1255146982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1255146985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the host:port, you put the / and the type code, and then the selector string. < 1255146998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the format of a gopher URL. < 1255147015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION briefly considers writing this in Objective-C for That Authentic Mac Taste, remembers Cocoa's string handling functions, decides to use Python instead
< 1255147042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1255147062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are all the GUI development thingies so intimidating? < 1255147095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why that is. < 1255147170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as it turns out, I am also playing a pinball game at this time, whenever I am not typing, I am playing pinball game. It is a flipperless pinball game called "Jiggle Box", and with a few changes I have made to it, I think it is pretty good, I like it like this. < 1255147186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever played any kind of flipperless pinball games? < 1255147191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope; how does that work? < 1255147241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it is just a pinball game, but without flippers. So the only control is launching and bumping. With flippered games you have lauching, bumping, and flipping. < 1255147259 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And often also rotating lights in flippered games. < 1255147262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE YOU TOUCH YOURSELF AT NIGHT.' < 1255147270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1255147278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I'm lagged again, aren't I :P < 1255147286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very < 1255147293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, horribly lagged. My joke is horrendously mistimed. < 1255147311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Copyright __MyCompanyName__ 2009. All rights reserved. < 1255147312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ Xcode sure does make some assumptions about the opensourceness of the software I'm writing, and my employment status. < 1255147341 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just change the templates if either or both assumptions are wrong. < 1255147354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work for __MyCompanyName__ inc. < 1255147355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; not sure where so I just changed it in the file. < 1255147365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the joys of reverse DNS naming: "com.yourcompany.Gophocoa". < 1255147388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll make a PURL. < 1255147477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiggle Box generally gives you nine balls, but there is a hole that causes immediate Game Over if you get the ball in there. Hitting all the drop targets will change it to 500 points instead, but once you get that, it will change back to Game Over. < 1255147510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temporarily redirected to http://purple.com/! < 1255147556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's temporarily redirected? < 1255147561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP. < 1255147567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why? < 1255147574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it temporarily redirected? < 1255147582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't have a site to point it to, and purple.com is fun. < 1255147586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a reverse-DNS string to identify Gophocoa to OS X. < 1255147590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'l getting a PURL < 1255147592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. OK < 1255147593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://purl.org/) < 1255147666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent, I now have http://purl.org/net/gophocoa, i.e. org.purl.net.gophocoa < 1255147682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1255147686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time I'd gone to purple.com < 1255147691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is indeed purple. < 1255147696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed the link! < 1255147696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I question the need for /purple.html < 1255147699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRY AGAIN YOU FAIL AT PURPLE < 1255147769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1255147771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the FAQ. < 1255147775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FAQ is on puce. < 1255147776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby declare Xcode with Python + PyObjC: NOT ENTIRELY HORRIFIC! < 1255147782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't miss the Purple Game! < 1255147806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'm fairly sure MainMenu.xib shouldn't be my main application window thingy < 1255147807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well < 1255147893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it sure will be fun attempting to draw a gopher icon. < 1255147931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Preferences < 1255147941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl@the purple game < 1255147948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T PROVE THAT THERE'S NOT < 1255147954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of a single preference a Gopher app that obeys the general user interface expectations could reasonably have < 1255147960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of one: homepage < 1255147965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE, at a stretch, let you configure colours. < 1255147987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.purple.com/availability.html < 1255147990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leasing fees! < 1255147999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw it. < 1255148011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO have a spare $750K lying around. < 1255148045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, homepage is a good one. You might also want to allow the homepage to be a gopher menu file loaded from the local file-system, in case you want bookmarks and stuff like that. < 1255148053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some gopher clients do that. < 1255148068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll be registering gopher:// as a protocol with Mac OS X, so just point it at a file:// instead and all will go swwimingly < 1255148083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you point it at an http:// it'll probably open in Safari every time you start Gophocoa up :P < 1255148088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What file extension do you think I should use for gopher menus? Something like .gophermenu? < 1255148093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to obey 8.3. < 1255148094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so, OK. < 1255148105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can't think of anything more cutesy than .gophermenu. < 1255148111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used .go4 for gopher menus, and I have seen a few others use that too. But you don't have to. < 1255148138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else does that? If it's common at all I'll adopt it < 1255148176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that the Format menu, including Show Fonts and Show Colors, will be *absolutely* useless unless someone invents rich text Gopher form fields.
< 1255148181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dearly hopes nobody ever does that, and so nukes it
< 1255148206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might consider using .go4. I have only seen one other people or group using it, other than myself. Other than that I don't know if it is at all common. But I have never heard of any other extensions for gopher menu files, so that is just what I use. < 1255148238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get cron to stop mailing me? < 1255148272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to find an application on his system with no help menu in a desperate attempt to justify his laziness in assuming that he is so good at interface design nobody will ever need help
< 1255148281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doublt anyone would invent rich text Gopher form fields, but even if someone does, it is still a completely optional feature, like all extensions to the gopher protocol are. < 1255148297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN THE BUILT IN CHESS APPLICATION HAS HELP!! < 1255148321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, another thing in gopher menus: Type i is a information text displayed on the menu but is not a link to anything. < 1255148339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, some applications just open a web page or whatever < 1255148348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just make the help open a page on the gophersite for it, I guess < 1255148364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with my (possibly never arriving) SL product, my goal is that users never need to look at the manual. The product will guild them < 1255148366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guide < 1255148405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This can work with incredibly minimal, professional and inspired GUI design. It cannot work inside a strange virtual reality where things don't obey normal rules even with such skill. < 1255148419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should come out and admit that you're too lazy to write a manual like me. < 1255148448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ditches File -> Open Recent; a full history is way better
< 1255148451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I will write a manual, or at least try to < 1255148463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just I want to make relying on it unneeded < 1255148467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am assuming that users read < 1255148470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1255148521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you think I should have tabs? Seems rather silly for a Gopher browser. < 1255148557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have tabs if you want to. You don't have to. Make that decision by yourself. < 1255148568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would rather assume that users ignore all text which is not immediately needed while it is being displayed
< 1255148600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there's no way for me to make an intuitive interface < 1255148630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what do i know, i'm not really a programmer :) < 1255148631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, let me show you what it has to look like. It's either this, or asking for stuff to be typed in < 1255148659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255148663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users don't read. < 1255148677 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255148722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that may be an assumption too. i just thought that once they get desperate because they don't know how to do something, they _might_ read help if it is currently visible on screen. < 1255148743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that Revert to Saved is a useless operation if you can't edit.
< 1255148754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and I'm not planning on making a Gopher website maker any time soon < 1255148759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not general help, but help on what they are currently desperate about) < 1255148771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1255148824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *might* have an editor for the bookmarks file, but that's probably about all you would need. < 1255148857 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255148859 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-118-78.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255148891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/Ruodp.png < 1255148914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All screens in my product must look something like that (well, actually, the style in SL is a bit different) < 1255148927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. < 1255148929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Bookmark editor is rather simpler, though < 1255148930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat, simple, clear. < 1255148940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless the buttons actually have to say "B10" etc. < 1255148942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Append one line of very rigid contents" vs "remove one specific line". < 1255148948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't < 1255148953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get rid of the Ignore < 1255148980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, bookmark editor would be simple. Just one menu. < 1255148984 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's kind of crummy. < 1255149003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I supposed to design my product to be easy to use without reading if they have to go through this? < 1255149021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, actually, it'd be a dialog with a list of them that you select and two buttons, - and + (+ adds an empty one with the location field focused and you can tab to the title). < 1255149022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although in SL, the Ignore button's smaller) < 1255149031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd also let you change titles, etc. < 1255149034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think everyone knows what it does by now < 1255149040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the uber-simple "bookmark this page", of course. < 1255149073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "bookmark this page" is of course a useful feature to have. < 1255149080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and see the order? I can't make, say, B6 not be there < 1255149086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave B7 on stay < 1255149122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make some of them blank, but I can't make it disappear altogether. And even blank ones close out, so I'd have to have it re-open < 1255149205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, a bookmark editor would basically should have add, remove, edit, move-up, move-down. And then five fields, type, title, selector, host, port. Type can be 1 by default, selector can be blank by default, port can be 70 by default. In most cases, only the hostname would ever have to be typed in. (You can also make the title default to the hostname) < 1255149285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One bookmarks file is good enough. < 1255149368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: All those extra fields can simply be replaced by a URL < 1255149383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd let you put http:// links in your links-homepage-bookmark-thingy, too. < 1255149423 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that will work too. < 1255149438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, I messed up. This should have been done as an NSDocument app. < 1255149447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete, rego; thankfully I didn't actually do much. < 1255149471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does NSDocument app mean, anyways? I really don't know much about Macintosh computers. < 1255149484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSDocument is a part of the system APIs. It's basically, well, a document. < 1255149497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An NSDocument application is just an application designed for showing and manipulating new types of NSDocument. < 1255149506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get things like save, open, undo and the like for free if you make your type a kind of NSDocument. < 1255149523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally new to this too. < 1255149542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. You are new to this too. Well, at least you can learn. < 1255149621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the default about window is fun... "Engineering: Some people / Human Interface Design: Some other people / Testing: Hopefully not nobody / Documentation: Whoever / With special thanks to: Mom" < 1255149724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think they'd put Hopefully not nobody on Documentation too... < 1255149768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Help isn’t available for Gophocoa." < 1255149775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Gopher, no-one can hear you scream. < 1255149804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you use audio file types) < 1255149823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Yes. :P < 1255149883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gophocoa: The first Gopher client to be a crime against humanity! < 1255149980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a crime against humanity? < 1255150012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about screams < 1255150036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I still vaguely awake? I must have been awake 30 hours now. < 1255150069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drugs? < 1255150076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even I don't do that. < 1255150079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on the drug of LIFE, baby! < 1255150104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know that has a 100% lethality rate, right? < 1255150111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO FAR < 1255150166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders if he's supposed to rename GophocoaDocument to something sane, like GopherPage.
< 1255150181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders further if he's allowed to make subclasses of it, e.g. GopherMenu.
< 1255150195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the documentation sure would help! < 1255150196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard not to pronounce that last o as a y < 1255150198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Reading the < 1255150207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut < 1255150228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1255150243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Dickument? < 1255150257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1255150277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gophocia? < 1255150283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1255150295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/i/y/ < 1255150341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm clearly missing something here. < 1255150365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck ya < 1255150382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a ridiculously tenuous pun. < 1255150390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrah! < 1255150480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, first thing... let's give < 1255150480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1255150481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255150487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once made a pinball game where the reels had 152 positions each, and there were 7 reels in the game. < 1255150492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?? < 1255150497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I think I need a separate document type < 1255150499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each type I handle < 1255150512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a lot of gopher documents are plain .txt < 1255150521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure I should claim I know the right class for .txt... < 1255150631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should distract myself by making a pretty icon :) < 1255150690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1255150694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :role: editor/viewer/shell/none < 1255150698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes that viewer, just to see
< 1255150708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncaught Exception: < 1255150708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window: target of tracking rect doesnt understand -mouseEntered: or -mouseExited messages < 1255150708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Backtrace: < 1255150709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack backtrace has been logged to the console. < 1255150709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1255150815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1255150823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too complex for my current awakeness < 1255151174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do any pages on zzo38computer gopher have anything fancy other than the simple get-page-back? < 1255151179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scripting doesn't count, it's client-side < 1255151221 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, some have queries. < 1255151228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're they? < 1255151256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything with type 7 has query parameters. They are, the weather reports, movie times, phlog journal. < 1255151269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1255151339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i see, i think < 1255151351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They give you weather reports and movie times for your area. The phlog journal has a searching, and also a comment function, too! And there is a calendar on the phlog software. < 1255151353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could use that to make a silly gopher-twitter xD < 1255151358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the queries themselves < 1255151365 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I gues you could < 1255151605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC client I made has a add-on for Twitter, but it is read-only. Anyone who has a account with Twitter, if you want to, might fix the add-on to do write access to Twitter, too. < 1255151673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how do you use finger as a gopher client, again? < 1255151710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just give the selector as the parameter and put 70 as the port number. It won't parse menus, but it works for text files. < 1255151739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a gopher client to connect to finger works better, just put type 0 < 1255151743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger: zzo38computer.cjb.net:70: nodename nor servname provided, or not known < 1255151754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ finger textfile/processor/16x.cpu@zzo38computer.cjb.net < 1255151754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[zzo38computer.cjb.net] < 1255151754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((it hangs)) < 1255151777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to give the port number. I'm not sure how to put a port number for finger < 1255151814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't give a port number, then using the finger command to access gopher sites simply won't work. < 1255151823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it ages ago < 1255151840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try: man finger < 1255151845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1255151885 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Italian cookies, they don't use man finger, but some of the cookies are called lady finger! < 1255151905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION groans
< 1255151917 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My grandparents are Italian, so they can know) < 1255152307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to poke ehird about why sqlite might not be so good
< 1255152330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite is fine as long as only one thing will ever, ever want to write to the DB at once. < 1255152345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do *you* like the 16X CPU? Do you have a comment of it? < 1255152364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if more than one thing tries, is the db broken, or does it just not work due to file locks? < 1255152403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ehird knows about, and has an opinion on, everything computer related. < 1255152425 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird already did < 1255152540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255152541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255152541 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255152653 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1255152843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255152951 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255152989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just doesn't work < 1255153166 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255153720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1255156894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255157305 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255157358 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97.118.116.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255159733 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1255159733 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1255161599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1255161600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1255163946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do sort-of concurrency even with SQLite by splitting the DB into multiple pieces, but that's not really the use case it's designed for. < 1255164026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255164072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some sort of built-in support for showing multiple files as a single logical database, if I recall correctly. < 1255164080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And those files have independent locking.) < 1255164088 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive figured out a little algorithm that, if given a set of sentences with many shared words, and with no word boundaries, will discover those word boundaries solely by statistics. < 1255164204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think our Morfessor algorithm -- http://www.cis.hut.fi/projects/morpho/ -- would actually also sort of partially do that, by accident, given the right sort of parameters. < 1255164221 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: discover word boundaries? < 1255164233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1255164236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1255164238 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"our"? < 1255164257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I work there, so it's "our" theoretically; I don't have much to do with it though. < 1255164263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. ok. < 1255164293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a nice little algorithm i came up with. pretty simple. < 1255164324 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know it? :x < 1255164360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I *would*, but I need to be in a bus in something like 10 minutes, so this is not really the time. But if you want to blab it here, I can logread it later. :p < 1255164375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah let me know later and ill tell you all about it < 1255164436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oggay. Gone now. < 1255164443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gay! < 1255166222 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255167177 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90562@gateway/web/freenode/x-kuoxtdsymevwgung JOIN :#esoteric < 1255167740 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255169680 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255171130 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1255171231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hear there was a course in lojban in helsinki uni < 1255171270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with my ears) < 1255171650 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hey oklopol < 1255171704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hewy < 1255171706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hey < 1255171872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard it with my ears as well! What a coincidence < 1255172015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm number dyslexic or something, if i'm even slightly tired, i have to deduce what "at least as many as" means by picturing a bijection between two sets < 1255172044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i somehow think turning that into an inequation should be trivial :D < 1255172090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also orders of implication are hard, and i have just memorized a few simple rules for them; but that's something everyone else fails at much more < 1255172096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because i don't) < 1255172121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nevah) < 1255172165 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255172178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello adam_d, are your implications in order < 1255172379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized my pants have a gigantic hole between my legs < 1255172422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably glue them together < 1255172684 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to glue your legs together? < 1255172729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no i don't mean my pants own my ass, i mean there's a hole *in* my pants < 1255172734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i wasn't being very clear < 1255172756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually yours was about what i was referring to < 1255172761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes more sense < 1255172774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just blame english for being stupid < 1255172786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it was my error) < 1255172901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, when you have a hole in your pants, do you glue them (the pants) or it (the hole) together? < 1255172970 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right, i didn't have an error < 1255172970 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255172974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant glue my pants together < 1255173012 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I got that < 1255173019 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1255173027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was i who didn't < 1255173112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's only a coincidence if it's not true, methinks < 1255173120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying someone lied to me < 1255173222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, there's an unlambda reference in the homework < 1255173255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aSS" couldn't possibly be a coincidence < 1255173266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's true < 1255173286 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255173314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course given the starting variable is always S, and the terminals are usually {a, b}, i suppose there might be a small chance < 1255173876 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255174487 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255177508 0 :lifthrasiir!i=blflYEIA@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1255178402 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1255178411 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255179693 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133608.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255180574 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255183135 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1255184838 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255187621 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255189616 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :suifur < 1255189846 0 :suifur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zbrown < 1255189941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255189966 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90562@gateway/web/freenode/x-odeyaivgnagmidck JOIN :#esoteric < 1255189983 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255193764 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255194092 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1255194373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:42 huh, there's an unlambda reference in the homework < 1255194374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:14:15 "aSS" couldn't possibly be a coincidence < 1255194381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload, oklopol. underload. < 1255195042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1255195069 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255195131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i wonder if there is a reason why the balrog didn't use his fire. if so, it probably involves a horrible pun. < 1255196680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Letar" < 1255196746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1255196785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that seems to be something i'm incapable of learning. < 1255196912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just always say UL < 1255196954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be my internal representation, so it would make sense < 1255196966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for me < 1255196992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my scientific conclusion is it's because we're finnish. < 1255197099 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1255197415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1255197437 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255197781 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1255197835 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255198615 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255198760 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255204275 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Behold < 1255204302 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1255204933 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255205334 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255205392 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255205564 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1255205893 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255207215 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things I did this week: < 1255207255 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a Haskell infinite heap implementation that is worse than one I had read not a few hours before < 1255207289 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to apply a functional design pattern (fold) in Java (went rather nicely IMO) < 1255207319 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resisted attempts by my company to make me more managery < 1255207362 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be worse < 1255207386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that I'd turn down any promotion to management < 1255207422 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I have heard, if computer programs were written the way programmers were promoted, there would be no such thing as an OS or a dynamically-shared library < 1255207448 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they were still keeping me quite close to the dev side of the job so it wasn't too bad < 1255207461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION programmed to day for the first time in about a month
< 1255207461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*today < 1255207464 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what diturbs me more is the claims that I will want to become one some day < 1255207481 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you lot were creating shit all the time? < 1255207500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched to math < 1255207525 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1255207536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this big computation & discrete shit branch in our math dep < 1255207551 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you bloody people that are younger than me and more motivated than me < 1255207554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving things undecidable sounds like something i could do all my life < 1255207563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i was your age < 1255207567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ 20.5 < 1255207596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That life sounds depressing :p < 1255207627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't liked programming for a while now, too great a work/thinking ratio < 1255207650 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1255207662 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you writing? < 1255207666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well i might do some algebra too, occasionally! < 1255207696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a program that calculates determinants in python, because i didn't feel like doing them manually, and using a preexisting prog feels like cheating when it's homework. < 1255207719 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :determinants are those things that do everything, right? < 1255207746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Determinants solve all problems. < 1255207758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a toothache last week, but it's OK now, I calculated the determinant. < 1255207766 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, wanna tell if a certain set of vectors can be used to make a coordinate system? stick them all together into a square and find the determinant < 1255207780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like see whether it's zero < 1255207796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1255207801 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know if some linear simultaneous equations have a unique solution? Express them as a matrix and find the determinant < 1255207804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1255207805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255207813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's zero, some of the vectors are linearly dependent < 1255207834 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually those problems are obviously the same thing now I think about it < 1255207835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1255207853 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, related at least < 1255207939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they weren't related finding the determinant wouldn't work :-P < 1255207961 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in the mood for hiding hard problems in evil places
< 1255207965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION melts at music videos on YouTube that have HQ or HD
< 1255207992 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like asking a foreigner to fill in the missing english nouns in this table: < 1255208001 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brother sister sibling < 1255208008 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :father mother parent < 1255208015 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncle aunt ???? < 1255208020 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? ??? cousin < 1255208020 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1255208033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's mean :P < 1255208054 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the answers are: unclaunt, man-cousin, sex-cousin < 1255208079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those exist? < 1255208083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255208084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1255208090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on Gregor's answer, not < 1255208090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't < 1255208093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it's mean < 1255208120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, because a foreigner wouldn't realize they don't exist, but would assume they don't know them < 1255208131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would assume i don't know them in finnish as well < 1255208134 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe asking for the formulae for area of rectangle, preimeter of rectangle, area of circle, perimeter of circle, area of triangle, perimeter of triangle, area of elipse, perimeter of elipse < 1255208152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the family relation terms suck, and aren't worth knowing < 1255208179 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, the last one can only be expressed as an unsolvable integral) < 1255208195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1255208233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lengths of curves seem to get unsolvable very easily < 1255208260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :veli sisko sisarus / isä äiti vanhempi / eno/setä täti ??? / ??? ??? serkku/orpana/nepas < 1255208281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems the same ones don't exist in Finnish either :-/ < 1255208310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard "orpana/nepas". < 1255208325 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Generalising the solution to 3 bodies is left as an exercise to the sudent." < 1255208333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mother's/father's side respectively < 1255208333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have no idea which is eno and which is setä < 1255208336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And archaic < 1255208344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mother's/father's side respectively for them as well < 1255208354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not archaic :-P < 1255208389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, i don't have setä's, should be pretty easy to remember < 1255208419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an enormous amount of enos though < 1255208433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i say enough of them < 1255208446 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAoCP has a ... variety of dificulties of questions in it. < 1255208538 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they range from taking 1 person 1 minute of high-school maths ... to thousands of professional mathematicians on-and off for centuries < 1255208566 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. he poses the proof of Fermat's last theorem in some editions) < 1255208603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's an example of a problem whose challenge rating had to be lowered < 1255208633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean given as an example of such a problem in the book < 1255208639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the preface thingie < 1255208646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1255208753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1255208763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least fermat's last theorem is HM45 < 1255208772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have the edition that smells weird? < 1255208774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/50) < 1255208794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have a traditional sense of smell < 1255208804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1255208827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't smell like anything, maybe beer? < 1255208843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by non-traditional i mean, well, for instance tuna smells exactly like urine to me < 1255208863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly sewage often smells like delicious sausages < 1255208867 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember noticing that my edition smelt odd... < 1255208879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually things don't smell like anything < 1255208881 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked, and it turns out to be printed on acid-free paper < 1255208983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the lecture notes, i thought, smelled like beauty, showed (or its equivalent for smelling) it to my gf, turned out it smelled like the dog food under which it had lied for some time < 1255208998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beauty, as in oh my god i could smell this all day < 1255209005 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, dog food. < 1255209011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't even like that dog food sort < 1255209027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the ones that are supposedly delicious dog snacks really taste like crap < 1255209034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the actual food that's good < 1255209053 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm food < 1255209533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge < 1255209599 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge < 1255209600 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91| actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge < 1255209647 0 :Iansus!n=chatzill@mpl69-1-82-232-142-41.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255209654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to consider quite a large amount of what i say worth remembering < 1255209765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1255209767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is everyone so gay for me :| < 1255209792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because twinky European nerds turn us on. < 1255209885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iansus: Your timing is impeccable if and only if you came in here to talk about weird and nonsensical subjects having nothing to do with esoteric programming. < 1255209935 0 :Iansus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not here for it bye < 1255209938 0 :Iansus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1255209940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1255210027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a girl smiled at me today, when i was talking loudly about integrals, i must be becoming more attractive to females < 1255210046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was more like telling a funny integral story < 1255210066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure "she" was, "she" wants you. < 1255210093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has < 1255210103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has < 1255210105 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92| if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has < 1255210285 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1255210317 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life would be simpler if people were only one gender < 1255210462 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1255210480 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexual reproduction is a huge advantage < 1255210516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that doesn't need two sexes, never mind two genders < 1255210535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEXUAL reproduction needs (at least) two sexes. < 1255210539 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it's asexual reproduction. < 1255210565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that individuals can be of multiple sexes, and as said gender and sex aren't necessarily the same) < 1255210605 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not like anyone says there has to be two genders < 1255210625 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postgenderism, etc < 1255210659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well it's not like anyone says there has to be two genders <-- I guarantee you somebody has said this :P < 1255210675 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: surely only one sex is necessary if all gametes are interchangeable? < 1255210727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: But then is that sexual reproduction? I guess we need a definition of "sexual reproduction" that isn't Earth-life-specific. < 1255210752 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Perelandra, the division of the genders is merely an aspect of a fundamental division in the universe. But then that was written by C.S. Lewis) < 1255210764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, it does the same recombination of genes < 1255210767 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say it counts < 1255210799 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the thing that some single-celled organisms do is counted as sex, even though they don't have sexes < 1255210825 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, binary fission? < 1255210828 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called binary fission. < 1255210830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not bacteria. They're more like fileshares.) < 1255210835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*filesharers < 1255210852 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, some single-celled organisms merge then divide < 1255210863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1255210867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- not a biologist. < 1255210880 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like our gametes, but they spend most of their lives with only one set of cromosomes < 1255211070 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255211110 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255211258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Also Fermat's last used to be "M50" earlier; the H prefix was added since Wiles' proof was very higher-math. < 1255211295 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1255211303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1255211687 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1255212025 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255212049 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255212148 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it sexual reproduction if there's sexless sex involved. < 1255213635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Not bacteria. They're more like fileshares.) <-- XD < 1255213658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a wonderful analogy < 1255213957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda annoying how every time i try to go to sleep, i start thinking about a homework problem and solve it < 1255213959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are < 1255213974 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when does it need to be done by? < 1255214016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some 50 problems for next week, first ones need to be done by tuesday < 1255214107 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck homework < 1255214118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one was to prove scramble(L) is a context-free lang if L is regular, scramble(L) being the language of all permutations of all words of L < 1255214162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it becomes trivial once you think in terms of automatons < 1255214180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first tried to get some sorta recursive thing from a regexp < 1255214198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is more involved, probably no use sharing < 1255214218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway should probably retry, i'm kinda half-asleep atm anyway < 1255214241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or i could watch this episode of scrubs i've seen about a hundred times < 1255214311 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1255214395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeees < 1255214438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: homework is a great way to get a steady stream of interesting math problems. < 1255214449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc if you don't like math problems, they're just a nuisance < 1255214747 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255215116 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1255215197 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-35.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255215411 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255215679 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255215971 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1255216323 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1255216519 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1255217046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much handwaving you'd need to do to prove that you get scramble(L) for a regular language L by taking the right regular grammar for it, and adding a "A -> Ba" rule for each "A -> aB" rule in it. If you can handwave that, it's quite obviously context-free. < 1255217155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, if that indeed gives scramble(L). I just have a vague feeling it would.) < 1255217756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217756 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217757 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217757 0 :fizziew!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217757 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217759 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217759 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217759 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217760 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217762 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217762 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217762 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217763 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217764 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217764 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217764 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217765 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217766 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217766 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217767 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217767 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1255217823 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97.118.116.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-106-98.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :mtve!n=nnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :fizziew!n=htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255217823 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1255218076 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1255218629 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1255219049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder how much handwaving you'd need to do to prove that you get scramble(L) for a regular language L by taking the right regular grammar for it, and adding a "A -> Ba" rule for each "A -> aB" rule in it. If you can handwave that, it's quite obviously context-free. < 1255219054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1255219088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case that doesn't give scramble(L), do note the disclaimer too. < 1255219089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition is that's false < 1255219094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1255219176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, what about S -> Ta | empty, T -> Ub, U -> Sc