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00:17:15 <oerjan> <MizardX> Somehow "be-" strengthens the verb, giving it a wider or more intense meaning. räkna (count) -> beräkna (calculate); sitta (sit) -> besitta (posess, occupy)
00:17:33 <oerjan> mind you in those two cases they also turn the verb transitive afaict
00:18:00 <oerjan> be- is a prefix borrowed from german, i'm not sure it has a clear meaning there either
00:18:52 <oerjan> actually the transitivization may be a general part of it, but i don't feel it says everything
00:20:36 * oerjan is trying to think of an example of be- added to a verb that is already transitive. maybe there aren't any.
00:21:23 <MizardX> There are. I thought of one a few minutes ago, but can't remember it right now... :S
00:21:28 <oerjan> and also besitte is not the same as sette, another way of making sitte transitive.
00:22:45 <MizardX> röra (transitive) -> berära (transitive)
00:22:51 <MizardX> bröra*
00:23:16 <oerjan> right, that's also in norwegian (røre/berøre)
00:23:16 <MizardX> though, in this case, the meaning is almost unchanged.
00:23:37 <oerjan> well røre is more like "move", berøre is "touch"
00:23:58 <oerjan> berøre is sort of less drastic :)
00:24:11 <MizardX> röra could mean both move and touch
00:24:15 <oerjan> which means in this case be- is _not_ an intensifier, hm
00:25:33 <MizardX> "röra" in the sense of "to touch" vs. "beröra" is slightly intensfied, in a sensual way.
00:25:41 <oerjan> i have somehow this general feeling of vagueness for all those german "unseparable" verb prefixes (be- ge- er- come to mind)
00:26:19 <oerjan> and it probably gets even worse for borrowing into our scandinavian languages
00:29:36 <MizardX> er- = 1) Inseparable verbal prefix that indicates a successful conclusion, leads to the wanted result. 2) Inseparable verbal prefix that indicates killing or dying.
00:32:10 <oerjan> Er ist ermördet geworden!
00:32:28 <oerjan> although the killing part comes from elsewhere, there
00:33:24 <oerjan> hm wait no ö just o
00:33:50 <oerjan> fooled by swedish :D
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01:13:09 <fizzie> One of my favourite words from the little bit of German I learned in school: the verb entgegengehen -- "to go toward something", approximately -- and especially the past perfect tense: entgegengegangen.
01:13:19 <fizzie> Handwritten, it looks especially juicy.
01:14:47 <Sgeo> If I can get a legal copy of Virtual PC, should I?
01:16:53 <fizzie> It's one of those funky separable German verbs -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language#Separable_prefixes -- so in the (for example first-person singular) present tense it's a reasonably boring "Ich gehe ... entgegen"; it's just the past perfect tense "Ich bin ... entgegengegangen" where it really shines.
01:19:35 <oerjan> never go against an ent, i say
01:20:10 <Asztal> Sgeo: Virtual PC 2007 doesn't cost anything, so that shouldn't be the problem; VirtualBox is better though.
01:20:10 <Sgeo> I think it's sad that the only place I've heard of Ents are Runescape
01:20:21 <Asztal> Assuming you're talking about Microsoft Virtual PC
01:23:47 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPT_3PEjnsE is inspiring me to power up my old computer
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01:24:22 <Sgeo> Collect the AWGate songs (that song is an AWGate song), collect some pictures, and find the oldest file on the computer
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02:19:07 <Oranjer> what
02:19:40 <oerjan> where
02:19:54 <Sgeo> Oranjer, AWGate in AW used to play MIDIs all the time
02:20:10 <Oranjer> uh-huh
02:20:22 <Sgeo> Most of those songs are now songs that, when I hear them, trigger what I guess is nostalgia
02:20:51 <Sgeo> My reaction when I hear the full version of one of those songs for the first time is rather extreme
03:17:01 <Oranjer> anyone here?
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03:18:35 <oerjan> *chirp*
03:18:43 <Oranjer> ha
03:18:45 <Oranjer> thanks, oerjan
03:19:14 <Oranjer> I'm just lamenting the fact that apparently everyone in the world lacks the capacity to make a decent organizational chart
03:19:57 <Oranjer> do you know anyone who knows how?
03:20:57 <Oranjer> oerjan?
03:21:16 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i have never done so :D
03:21:58 <oerjan> aren't organizational charts pure instruments of evil, anyhow.
03:22:21 <Oranjer> the ones you know of, maybe
03:22:48 <Oranjer> but that's probably because they were doing it the wrong way
03:22:50 <oerjan> i mostly know them from dilbert, of course ;D
03:22:53 <Oranjer> ha
03:23:25 <Oranjer> yes, it seems apparent that corporations royally suck at making such things
03:23:38 <Oranjer> but there *is* a good way of making them
03:24:06 <Oranjer> okay, tell me what's wrong with this:
03:24:07 <Oranjer> http://www.mc-med.eu/Chart.htm
03:26:25 <oerjan> i detect that it was made by evil muslims
03:28:36 <oerjan> it will be fine as soon as they admit the armenian genocide.
03:28:57 <oerjan> also, don't expect a serious answer from me on such matters.
03:30:14 * oerjan hopes Oranjer is not turkish or at least is not taking me seriously
03:41:53 <Oranjer> :O
03:41:55 <Oranjer> what?
03:42:06 <Oranjer> sorry, we were making oreo pudding pie stuff
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03:46:22 <oerjan> yeah just like you to leave me here going off the deep end
03:46:51 * oerjan eats some bread
03:46:56 <Oranjer> sorry
03:47:07 <Oranjer> :(
03:47:57 <oerjan> you seem to be taking me seriously.  didn't i already warn you against that?
03:48:23 <Oranjer> oh sorry
03:48:30 <oerjan> XD
03:48:35 <Oranjer> I apologize, prime minister oerjan
03:48:45 <Oranjer> I will cease taking you seriously
03:48:49 <oerjan> _much_ better
03:49:21 <oerjan> except on mathematics.  i sometimes behave rationally on that subject.
03:50:01 <Oranjer> oh, how you joke, sir! *laugh track*
03:50:42 <oerjan> i suppose that is an improvement
03:50:42 * Sgeo curses the very existance of "sfArk" files
03:50:53 <Oranjer> what is a "sfArk" file?
03:51:04 * oerjan blesses the very fact he doesn't know that
03:51:07 <Sgeo> A compression method for SoundFont files
03:51:13 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAA
03:51:21 <Sgeo> Requires special software to open
03:51:23 <oerjan> you had to ruin my state of bliss!
03:51:48 <Oranjer> uh-huh
03:51:57 <Oranjer> also, MizardX, are you there?
03:52:03 <MizardX> yes
03:52:07 <Oranjer> hey
03:52:14 <Oranjer> sorry for leaving you hanging as well :(
03:52:20 <Oranjer> but! I did research
03:53:16 <Oranjer> and it turns out that there must not exist a single place on the internet where one can find either: an explanation as to how the European Parliament does their decision-making; and a goddamn organizational chart for the EU
03:54:03 <MizardX> hehe
03:55:50 <Oranjer> http://www.hardtechgroup.eu/fileadmin/hg/img/en/org-chart_1.gif
03:55:54 <Oranjer> seriously, oerjan
03:56:12 <Oranjer> that chart is indecipherable to a ten year old
03:56:19 <Oranjer> no fuckin' excuse
03:57:02 <Oranjer> okay, finally
03:57:03 <Oranjer> http://www.dadalos-europe.org/int/Images_neu/gk4_sb02.gif
03:57:08 <Oranjer> that's the best I've found so far
03:58:25 <Oranjer> http://www.dadalos-europe.org/int/grundkurs4/eu-struktur_1.htm
03:58:29 <Oranjer> also, that's the site
03:58:44 <Oranjer> I think it's a fairly good overview of the structure
04:03:48 <Sgeo> YES YES OOOOOOOOOOH YES YES YES
04:03:49 <Warrigal> Oranjer: all you really need to know is the stuff at the very bottom!
04:04:02 <Oranjer> what the hell
04:04:09 <Sgeo> I GOT TIMIDITY WORKING WITH UNISON
04:04:19 <Oranjer> what does that mean
04:04:26 <Sgeo> Oranjer, MIDIs play BEAUTIFULLY
04:04:31 <Oranjer> yay!
04:05:13 <Sgeo> I used Timidity+Unison a long time ago to turn my midis into Ogg Vorbis files, and it's what I'm used to, so it's also a beautifully familiar sound
04:05:33 <Oranjer> Warrigal, what do you mean?
04:05:40 <Oranjer> oh, okay, Sgeo
04:05:48 <Oranjer> yay midis?
04:06:11 <Warrigal> Oranjer: the stuff at the bottom of http://www.hardtechgroup.eu/fileadmin/hg/img/en/org-chart_1.gif
04:06:26 <Oranjer> Innovation Fairness Harmony   ?
04:07:12 <Oranjer> goshdarnit why does every corp-o in existence need a three word slogan? they sound so evil
04:07:43 <Sgeo> Secure. Contain. Protect.
04:07:46 <Oranjer> haha
04:07:51 <Oranjer> Omnicorp?
04:07:54 <Oranjer> I do not know
04:08:02 <Sgeo> scp-wiki.wikidot.com
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04:09:02 <Oranjer> awesome, Sgeo, what's that?
04:09:33 <Sgeo> Oranjer, the SCP Foundation has files on the ... things that it contains
04:09:41 <Oranjer> I see that
04:09:50 <Oranjer> they remind me of several things
04:10:24 <Oranjer> 1. the Warehouse from Indy, 2. the Warehouse from Warehouse-13, 3. The items in "The Lost Room"
04:14:37 <Kalagar> Oh wow. GOTO plus plus
04:14:40 <Kalagar> aahaha
04:14:52 <Kalagar> Err, GOTO++ rather
04:15:05 <Oranjer> what
04:15:16 <oerjan> Oranjer: does that include google's "Don't Be Evil"? :D
04:15:20 <Kalagar> I'm just going through the huge list of languages
04:15:29 <Oranjer> haha, oerjan, you and your paradoxes
04:15:36 <Oranjer> what languages, Kalagar?
04:15:45 <oerjan> *"Don't be evil"
04:15:53 <Kalagar> on esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list
04:16:15 <Oranjer> oerjan, I mean three words that are not in the same sentence
04:16:40 <Oranjer> like, three separate concepts that, working together, are supposedly what the company works by/toward
04:16:54 <Oranjer> the more nicer they sound, the eviller the company
04:17:10 <oerjan> mhm
04:17:18 <Oranjer> "Peace. Truth. Prosperity."
04:17:32 <Oranjer> "Good. Nice. Yay!"
04:18:54 <oerjan> Butterflies. Rainbows. Unicorns.
04:19:04 <Oranjer> haha
04:19:18 <Oranjer> Cookies. Candy. You.
04:19:18 <oerjan> Part of a balanced diet.
04:19:23 <Oranjer> hahahahaahahaha
04:19:33 <Oranjer> your comment makes more sense after mine
04:19:35 <oerjan> that could apply to both of those...
04:19:45 <Oranjer> "Cookies, Candy, You. Part of a balanced diet.:
04:19:48 <Oranjer> *"
04:19:54 <Oranjer> freakin' beautiful
04:20:59 <oerjan> http://shc.osu.edu/blog/food-is-an-important-part-of-a-balanced-diet/
04:22:09 <Oranjer> nice
04:22:28 <oerjan> well, i just pasted it for the title
04:22:45 <Oranjer> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39313
04:22:50 <Oranjer> I pasted that for the content
04:23:04 <Oranjer> I am sorely disappointed in its url
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04:24:18 <Kalagar> I think the TwoDucks language broke my brain
04:24:21 <oerjan> i guess it would take a ramanujan to find that url interesting
04:24:29 <Oranjer> link please Kalagar
04:24:34 <Kalagar> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TwoDucks
04:24:42 <Oranjer> thanks
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04:30:48 <Kalagar> Also, shakespeare is amazing and I want to try it
04:31:08 <Kalagar> http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/
04:31:42 <Oranjer> I've heard of that
04:32:04 <Oranjer> I think it's too full of extraneous info, though, but that's just me
04:32:14 <Oranjer> *not info, text
04:32:37 <Kalagar> Well its definately not a minimalized language if that's what you are going for
04:34:14 <Oranjer> well
04:34:16 <oerjan> To code, or not to code, that is the question.
04:34:32 <Oranjer> I want as minimalized as possible, allowing for readibility
04:34:52 <Oranjer> as in, if it's not readable, it's too minimalized
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05:04:50 <Sgeo> This place feels like a Geocities site in 3d
05:05:13 <Oranjer> haha
05:05:15 <Oranjer> what place
05:05:18 <Oranjer> oh!
05:05:22 <Oranjer> ActiveWorlds?
05:05:40 <Sgeo> Oranjer, a place in AW, yes
05:06:02 <oerjan> anyone who thinks this channel feels like a Geocities site in 3d clearly has ingested something bad
05:06:10 <Oranjer> haha
05:06:20 <Sgeo> lol oerjan
05:06:27 <Oranjer> haha
05:06:36 <Oranjer> that just gave me a horrible idea
05:06:49 <Oranjer> an irc client that displays the letters in three D
05:06:55 <Oranjer> just for the helluvit
05:36:49 <Sgeo> This hotel looks... crappier than my nostalgia remembers :(
05:37:03 <Oranjer> hah
05:37:47 <Sgeo> Also, there's a picture here, that's supposed to come from Geocities :(
05:38:24 <Oranjer> :(
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15:29:52 <Asztal> time for my connection to time out again
15:30:47 <Asztal> actually it should have done so already, maybe it's stopped
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15:52:44 <AnMaster> hi ais523
15:53:00 <ais523> hi
15:56:23 <AnMaster> ais523, seems new ubuntu version was released
15:56:28 <AnMaster> any major issues?
15:57:24 <AnMaster> ais523, by the way, for how many days does the old release keep being supported?
15:57:28 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, ex4 seems to have corruption problems with large files
15:57:37 <ais523> also, 18 months for ordinary releases
15:57:39 <AnMaster> ais523, ouch. I use ext4
15:57:47 <AnMaster> with extents
15:57:51 <AnMaster> so I can't go back to ext3
15:57:51 <ais523> every third or fourth is a long-term release supported for longer
15:57:59 <AnMaster> ais523, jaunty for me so...
15:58:05 <ais523> AnMaster: it isn't confirmed yet, and they're having trouble reproducing it
15:58:14 <AnMaster> ais523, I will wait with upgrade then
15:58:43 <AnMaster> ais523, so jaunty is supported for 18 months from when it was released or from when the next version is?
15:58:45 <ais523> I'm on ext3, anyway, so it shouldn't affect me
15:58:48 <ais523> AnMaster: from when it's released
15:58:53 <AnMaster> ais523, when was that?
15:58:58 <ais523> April this year
15:59:02 <AnMaster> ah good
16:02:11 <AnMaster> "Upstart jobs cannot be run in a chroot" hm
16:02:17 <AnMaster> possibly it might affect my 32-bit chroot
16:06:44 <AnMaster> ais523, hm about ext4... When I tried karmic beta in a VM some time ago I did get fs corruption on ext4. Severe such (making that VM completely unbootable, and fsck didn't manage to recover)
16:07:02 <AnMaster> tried again from clean, and it worked
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16:17:54 <AnMaster> yeargh. A thread on a mailing list, so deep that when using tree view some of the messages end up outside my screen
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16:18:09 <AnMaster> meh guess you missed that then
16:18:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> yeargh. A thread on a mailing list, so deep that when using tree view some of the messages end up outside my screen
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16:18:56 <AnMaster> I would guess it is around 50-60 levels deep
16:19:03 <AnMaster> or more
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16:30:49 <AnMaster> ais523, argh it seems worse: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14354
16:30:51 <AnMaster> stuff like that
16:31:12 <AnMaster> hm
16:31:16 <AnMaster> what kernel does karmic use?
16:31:19 <AnMaster> 2.6.31?
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16:31:30 <AnMaster> since I use ext4 on top of dm-crypt...
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17:57:18 <ais523> this is fun
17:57:34 <ais523> the distro upgrade's just replaced libc6 with libc-bin
17:57:36 <ais523> so I should be careful not to close any programs, in case they don't open again
18:00:48 <ais523> well, Perl still seems to work
18:00:54 <ais523> as does nethack
18:02:26 <ais523> as does Emacs, but it took a while to load
18:02:33 <ais523> presumably because its dependencies weren't in disk cache
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18:27:30 <Oranjer> what?
18:29:34 <AnMaster> Oranjer, who are you saying "what" to?
18:29:47 <Oranjer> anyone and everything
18:30:07 <Oranjer> are you part of that, AnMaster?
18:30:13 <AnMaster> Oranjer, what exactly did the line "<Oranjer> what?" mean?
18:30:26 <AnMaster> was it some weird sort of sgeo-ish greeting?
18:30:28 <Oranjer> just a greeting of sorts
18:30:32 <Oranjer> ha
18:30:34 <Oranjer> yep
18:30:39 <AnMaster> Oranjer, rather confusing
18:30:44 <Oranjer> I guess it's better than the usual ":O"
18:30:53 <Oranjer> :O
18:31:22 <AnMaster> Oranjer, "hello" "hi" "good evening" and similar phrases are more usual. The latter one is probably not recommended over IRC due to time zones
18:31:35 * AnMaster notes it is 18:31 local time and already pitch dark outside
18:31:47 <Oranjer> aww
18:31:51 <oklopol> PARTY!
18:31:59 <AnMaster> Oranjer, "aww" in response to?
18:32:12 <Oranjer> teh darkness outside your house
18:32:24 <Oranjer> I like their music, but still. we all got limits
18:33:19 <Oranjer> anyway
18:33:24 <Oranjer> what's up?
18:34:32 <AnMaster> <Oranjer> I like their music, but still. we all got limits <-- my turn to say "what‽"
18:34:49 <Oranjer> The Darkness is a band
18:34:55 <AnMaster> Oranjer, never heard of it
18:35:00 <Oranjer> :O
18:35:05 <AnMaster> but then, I don't care about popular culture
18:35:14 <Oranjer> "popular culture"
18:35:19 <oerjan> it should be one of those numbered rules:  if it's a phrase, there's a band named it
18:35:45 <Oranjer> you realize that if I realized I cared about popular culture, I would have to commit ritualized suicide?
18:35:46 <AnMaster> atm I'm listening to the 1700 century composer Kraus. Symphony in C Sharp Minor, movement 1
18:36:24 <Oranjer> The Darkness is contemporary glam metal, I would guess
18:36:28 <AnMaster> Kraus is sadly rather unknown. Better than Mozart IMO
18:36:32 <AnMaster> Oranjer, "glam metal"?
18:36:36 <Oranjer> aye
18:36:40 <Oranjer> falsetto voices
18:36:49 <Oranjer> hairspray all over the place
18:36:50 <AnMaster> Oranjer, huh. Strange are the ways of modern music
18:36:56 <Oranjer> "modern"?
18:37:04 <AnMaster> Oranjer, well. Anything after the jazz
18:37:10 <Oranjer> you realize glam metal is distinctly 80's
18:37:20 <AnMaster> Oranjer, see my last line
18:37:26 <AnMaster> Oranjer, and no I don't
18:37:32 <AnMaster> since I have no clue what glam metal is
18:38:24 <Oranjer> well, you may not appreciate the last 40 years or so of western human culture, but that's no reason to have never have heard of glam metal
18:38:24 <Oranjer> heh
18:40:17 <AnMaster> only time I come in contact with music composed after 1950 or so is when I play some old snes games and such. And fantasy game music tends to be inspired by some mix of classical music (I here use the phrase "classical music" in the vulgar sense that includes the romantic period too, not just the classical period during which, for example, Mozart lived) and a tiny bit of techo
18:40:23 <AnMaster> techno*
18:40:42 <Oranjer> yay techno!
18:40:47 <AnMaster> Oranjer, not really
18:40:55 <Oranjer> yayayayay
18:41:06 <AnMaster> I said tiny bit. :P
18:41:32 <Oranjer> :O
18:44:12 <Oranjer> anyways
18:46:38 <AnMaster> Oranjer, anyways what?
18:46:48 <Oranjer> anyways, anything
18:46:55 <Oranjer> what's the next topic?
18:47:02 <Oranjer> *is* there a next topic?
18:47:34 <AnMaster> http://codu.org/music/
18:47:36 <AnMaster> maybe
18:47:48 * AnMaster points to Gregor in here. 
18:47:56 <AnMaster> He has quite a "good" music taste ;P
18:48:57 <Oranjer> *sigh* I hate that I have no program that can play oggs
18:49:03 <AnMaster> Oranjer, you fail
18:49:08 <Oranjer> hardly
18:49:15 <Oranjer> bloody oggs
18:49:27 <Oranjer> wantin' to standardize music under my nose
18:49:33 <Oranjer> blargh! blargh!
18:49:36 <AnMaster> Oranjer, yeah *.flac is better
18:49:42 <AnMaster> non-lossy
18:49:47 <Oranjer> uh-huh
18:50:13 <AnMaster> have yet to find anything else that is non-lossy and gives as good compression
18:50:29 <Oranjer> .exe
18:50:31 <Oranjer> haha
18:50:38 <AnMaster> uh that made no sense
18:51:11 <Oranjer> ha!
18:51:13 <AnMaster> Oranjer, anyway you can encapsulate flac inside ogg (instead of vorbis like usually)
18:51:21 <Oranjer> oh, okay
18:51:28 <Oranjer> I do not know what that means
18:51:48 <AnMaster> ogg is a container format. Usually it contains vorbis. But other formats are supported.
18:51:54 <Oranjer> oh
18:51:57 <AnMaster> like theora (spelling?) for video and such
18:52:08 <Oranjer> uh
18:52:08 <AnMaster> and flac, though usually flac is used stand-alone
18:52:17 <Oranjer> okay
18:53:23 <AnMaster> Oranjer, anyway ogg should be easy. vlc? mplayer? xine? /usr/bin/ogg123 (command line, but tiny compared to those other ones mentioned, since they are full featured media players)
18:53:33 <AnMaster> Oranjer, anyway. What linux distro?
18:53:42 <AnMaster> it should be trivial to install something able to handle it
18:53:46 <Oranjer> hahahahahahaha
18:53:51 <Oranjer> you think I use linux
18:53:53 <Oranjer> heh
18:54:10 <Oranjer> if I used linux, I would already have had an .ogg program
18:54:14 <Oranjer> WAIT
18:54:18 <Oranjer> vlc plays oggs?
18:54:19 <ais523> you could try VLC
18:54:20 <Oranjer> awesome
18:54:22 <AnMaster> Oranjer, it should
18:54:35 <Oranjer> yay!
18:54:37 <Oranjer> cool, thanks
18:54:39 <AnMaster> Oranjer, unless possibly if it was some very very ancient version
18:54:46 <Oranjer> vlc just keeps surprising me
18:55:35 <AnMaster> in general vlc can play anything. And if it can't at least mplayer can. Or (only seen this once, with a rather unusual multi-part quicktime video from nasa...) xine if everything else fails
18:56:14 <Oranjer> :O
18:56:42 <AnMaster> Oranjer, in general xine is less likely to work than the other ones though
18:56:54 <AnMaster> mplayer is probably most likely to work, but yeah the UI is rather sucky
18:57:04 <Oranjer> yeah
18:57:21 <Oranjer> I love vlc's keyboard controls
18:58:47 <AnMaster> uh, not really
18:59:05 <Oranjer> :O
18:59:07 <Oranjer> why not?
18:59:32 <Oranjer> they're the only ones that I've seen that let me use the keyboard to rewind/skip forward
18:59:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, wow http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg was awesome. And awesomely realistic piano. What soundfont was THAT?
18:59:43 <AnMaster> oh wait, was it a live recording of you playing?
18:59:58 <AnMaster> if so, awesomely professional sound recording
19:00:33 <AnMaster> Oranjer, pretty sure mplayer does that. With the arrow keys
19:00:56 <Oranjer> not that I've found
19:00:57 <AnMaster> Gregor, would love score for http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op10.ogg
19:01:04 <Oranjer> I shall try it now, though
19:01:10 <AnMaster> Oranjer, you used any front end to mplayer?
19:01:28 <AnMaster> if so, well maybe that is why
19:01:28 <Oranjer> I don't think so..
19:01:33 * AnMaster meant raw mplayer with no buttons and such
19:01:48 <Oranjer> :O
19:02:59 <AnMaster> Oranjer, the midi files you might have more trouble with. Unless you have a good sound card with hardware midi and a good sound font
19:03:27 <Oranjer> nope!
19:03:27 * AnMaster uses airfont340 personally. One of the best free ones I found that have a good representation of all instrument
19:03:32 <AnMaster> instruments*
19:03:44 * AnMaster loves his Soundblaster Live! 5.1
19:04:38 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
19:12:05 <ais523> !befunge a"!dlorw ,olleH">:#,_@
19:12:17 <ais523> !befunge a"!dlorw ,olleH">:#._@
19:12:22 <ais523> what have I done wrong?
19:12:23 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'a' (0x61) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
19:12:23 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'a' (0x61) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
19:12:40 <ais523> !befunge98 a"!dlorw ,olleH">:#,_@
19:12:46 <AnMaster> it seems slow
19:12:49 <EgoBot> Hello, wrold!
19:12:50 <AnMaster> !help
19:12:51 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
19:12:57 <AnMaster> !befunge98 a"!dlorw ,olleH">:#,_@
19:12:59 <AnMaster> hm
19:13:00 <ais523> !befunge a"!dlrow ,olleH">:#._@
19:13:04 <ais523> !befunge a"!dlrow ,olleH">:#,_@
19:13:04 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'a' (0x61) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
19:13:06 <EgoBot> Hello, wrold!
19:13:08 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'a' (0x61) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
19:13:11 <AnMaster> the helow command was not as slow
19:13:12 <ais523> !befunge98 a"!dlrow ,olleH">:#,_@
19:13:15 <AnMaster> *help*
19:13:17 <AnMaster> !help
19:13:17 <EgoBot> Hello, world!
19:13:18 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
19:13:32 <AnMaster> !bf_txtgen Maybe busy?
19:13:35 <AnMaster> !info
19:13:36 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null
19:13:39 <AnMaster> !help languages
19:13:40 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
19:13:51 <AnMaster> wait, asm is in esoteric list?
19:13:56 <AnMaster> as well as the "other" list
19:13:56 <MizardX> perl?
19:14:09 <AnMaster> MizardX, perl is in the right section :P
19:14:12 <EgoBot> 138 +++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>>.++++++++++++++++++++.<.>+.+++.>-.<---.<----.--.++++++.>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>-. [260]
19:14:33 <AnMaster> ais523, I suspect uptime on the system EgoBot is running on would output some rather high load avg
19:15:38 <ais523> !perl print $_ for 1..9;
19:15:47 <EgoBot> 123456789
19:15:58 <ais523> meh, Perl isn't an esolang
19:16:18 <Deewiant> !perl print 1..9
19:16:24 <EgoBot> 123456789
19:17:16 <AnMaster> ais523, what is $_ ?
19:17:30 <ais523> AnMaster: a pronoun
19:17:36 <ais523> basically, it's a variable used as the default
19:17:40 <ais523> if you don't specify one
19:17:42 <AnMaster> ais523, hm
19:17:52 <ais523> so I could just write it like this
19:17:55 <ais523> !perl print for 1..9;
19:17:59 <ais523> but that would be even more confusing
19:18:01 <EgoBot> 123456789
19:18:20 <ais523> (the for modifier uses $_ as the iterator, because you can't specify it)
19:18:46 <AnMaster> ais523, what about for in front?
19:18:48 <AnMaster> :/
19:18:53 <AnMaster> like SANE languages do it
19:19:05 <ais523> !perl for my $a (1..9) {print $a;}
19:19:07 <EgoBot> 123456789
19:19:15 <AnMaster> ais523, plus what about Deewiant's solution above
19:19:30 <ais523> AnMaster: that's entirely different, he's printing an array rather than looping
19:19:35 <ais523> just it comes to the same thing
19:19:39 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
19:19:40 <AnMaster> ais523, yeah that was my point
19:19:58 <ais523> !perl $,='a'; $/='b'; print 1..9; print for 1..9;
19:19:58 <AnMaster> hm
19:20:04 <EgoBot> 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9123456789
19:20:10 <AnMaster> does ogg theora still use *.ogg?
19:20:13 <Deewiant> $/?
19:20:13 <ais523> !perl $,='a'; $\='b'; print 1..9; print for 1..9;
19:20:17 <Deewiant> :-)
19:20:20 <EgoBot> 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9b1b2b3b4b5b6b7b8b9b
19:20:21 <ais523> Deewiant: line separator on input
19:20:25 <ais523> I meant line separator on output
19:20:26 <Deewiant> Ah
19:21:09 <AnMaster> ais523, what is $, and $/ ?
19:21:17 <AnMaster> and why so short names
19:21:31 <ais523> AnMaster: $/ is line separator on input, $, is array element separator on output
19:21:43 <AnMaster> ais523, and $\?
19:21:47 <ais523> and they're short because why make them long? also, all-punctuation variables can't be defined by the user
19:21:52 <ais523> and $\ is line separator on output
19:22:07 <AnMaster> ais523, well ok. But why not use a single prefix like $.
19:22:09 <AnMaster> like
19:22:14 <AnMaster> $.OUTLINESEP
19:22:17 <AnMaster> or whatever
19:22:38 <AnMaster> ais523, the overuse of hard to remember punctuation is one of the main issue I have with perl
19:23:57 <ais523> !perl use English; $OUTPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR='b'; $OUTPUT_FIELD_SEPARATOR='a'; print 1..9; print for 1..9;
19:23:59 <ais523> better?
19:24:01 <AnMaster> bbl
19:24:07 <EgoBot> 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9b1b2b3b4b5b6b7b8b9b
19:24:19 <ais523> personally I think the punctuation is easier, I had to go look the long names up
19:25:15 <Deewiant> If the long names were the default you'd've had to look the punctuation up
19:27:48 <ais523> no, because no Perlist wants to type lines that long
19:28:10 <ais523> you can do a lot on a line with Perl, you don't want to waste half of it typing long complicated variable names like that
19:30:33 <Deewiant> I'm just disagreeing with your statement that the punctuation is easier
19:30:52 <Deewiant> You're used to it; that doesn't make it intrinsically easier
19:30:59 <ais523> well, I'm giving a reason why people would memorise the short names not the long names
19:31:07 <ais523> they're both written next to each other in the documentation
19:31:26 <ais523> and writing use English; isn't an issue, I'm used to that sort of thing (and knew that was the directive to change off by heart)
19:31:40 <ais523> $_ being only two chars long is pretty important, though
19:31:52 <ais523> just like "it" is only two letters long
19:32:06 <AnMaster> <ais523> personally I think the punctuation is easier, I had to go look the long names up <-- that is just because you are used to it.
19:32:08 <Deewiant> It helps that pretty much every tutorial and piece of documentation probably uses the punctuation :-)
19:32:10 <AnMaster> but it makes it harder to learn
19:32:22 <ais523> Deewiant: and pretty much every program uses it too
19:32:33 <ais523> I don't think I've ever seen a program that uses the long version of $_ rather than $_
19:32:34 <Deewiant> That follows from the documentation
19:32:45 <Deewiant> And the fact that the long names are newer than the punctuation
19:32:49 <ais523> besides, the man page gives mnemonics for all the punctuation variables
19:33:29 -!- ehiird has joined.
19:33:59 <AnMaster> <ais523> they're both written next to each other in the documentation <-- so English is some official one rather than an Acme one?
19:33:59 <ehiird> helo
19:34:11 <ais523> hi
19:34:14 <AnMaster> hi ehiird
19:34:49 <ehiird> gah this client is so awesome
19:35:27 <ehiird> 03:02:25 <ais523> This is what's wrong with Python. And //-based comments.
19:35:27 <ehiird> you are a bad person also wrong
19:35:29 <ehiird> :-P
19:35:50 <ais523> heh
19:36:02 <ais523> AnMaster: English is in the Perl distribution
19:36:08 <ehiird> 03:06:10 <AnMaster> ais523, what about that yencode or whatever it was called
19:36:08 <ehiird> 03:06:19 <AnMaster> pretty sure I seen it somewhere on usenet
19:36:08 <ehiird> http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/yenc.html
19:36:08 <ehiird> and it's for binaries; plus it only does one file
19:36:08 <ais523> together with various other modules
19:36:46 <AnMaster> <ehiird> 03:02:25 <ais523> This is what's wrong with Python. And //-based comments. <-- iirc they are # not //
19:37:04 <ais523> AnMaster: those are two separate complaints
19:37:20 <AnMaster> ais523, you mean, not related to python?
19:37:23 <ais523> i.e. Python has trouble with line-wrapping, and //-based comments also have trouble with line-wrapping
19:37:29 <ais523> it doesn't imply that //-based comments are in Python, though
19:37:47 <AnMaster> ais523, why does // have more issues than # in python or perl?
19:37:50 <ehiird> but it was out of context
19:38:02 <ais523> AnMaster: they don't, but they have an alternative, which is /* */
19:38:10 <AnMaster> ais523, python does? Huh?
19:38:13 <ais523> also, I think the discussion at the time was about some lang which had /* */
19:38:15 <ais523> probably C
19:38:19 <ais523> AnMaster: no
19:38:20 <AnMaster> ah
19:38:22 <AnMaster> right
19:38:26 <ais523> I mean, languages with // also have /* */, generally speaking
19:38:27 <AnMaster> ais523, what about perl?
19:38:28 <ehiird> 03:00:33 <AnMaster> ais523, that would only make sense if every file had that
19:38:28 <ehiird> 03:00:39 <AnMaster> which is not the case
19:38:28 <ehiird> 03:00:47 <AnMaster> just two out of around 20 or so
19:38:28 <ehiird> 03:00:48 <ais523> oh, where I've seen that, every file /did/ have that
19:38:28 <ehiird> 03:01:48 <AnMaster> ais523, plus catting them together would be a bit strange. Oh and it wouldn't be very useful since there are both server/main.c and client/main.c (only the former has such a comment at the end btw)
19:38:30 <ehiird> 03:02:07 <AnMaster> and yeah it would be an insane way to distribute a program
19:38:32 <ehiird> 03:02:25 <ais523> This is what's wrong with Python. And //-based comments.
19:38:34 <AnMaster> ehiird, ah right
19:38:36 <AnMaster> now I remember
19:38:40 <ais523> whereas languages with # generally don't have #{ }
19:38:41 <AnMaster> ehiird, why the extra i btw?
19:38:41 <ais523> (hi Perl6)
19:38:42 <ehiird> It seems totally out of context.
19:38:52 <ehiird> AnMaster: using the ii filesystem-based, <500 lines IRC client
19:38:56 <oklopol> ais523: but python does, """..."""
19:38:56 <ehiird> it's totally kick-ass!
19:38:57 <AnMaster> ehiird, oh hah
19:39:07 <ehiird> oklopol: that is technically a string :-P
19:39:10 <oklopol> well i guess you knew that, and it's not as flexible
19:39:31 <ais523> ehiird: are you using cat, then?
19:39:35 <ais523> to actually communicate?
19:39:39 <oklopol> ehiird: well yes, but it's also a very official form of commenting
19:39:41 <ehiird> vi
19:39:44 <ais523> haha
19:39:47 <ais523> perfect
19:39:48 <AnMaster> oklopol, I thought doc strings were for help("module name goes here")? And was only possible in some special places. Like directly below a def foo(): line or such
19:39:48 <ehiird> and multitail to view the log as it goes
19:39:54 <AnMaster> (and class obviously)
19:39:58 <ehiird> ais523: vim technically
19:39:59 <AnMaster> (and probably a few more)
19:40:02 <ehiird> so not quite as purist
19:40:29 <oklopol> AnMaster: possible everywhere, and you don't need to use them just for doc strings, for instance i've obviously never used those
19:40:32 <ais523> wow, I have a lot of windows open atm
19:40:34 <AnMaster> ehiird, I have a vi somewhere from the heirloom project thingy iirc
19:40:36 <oklopol> i mean docstrings
19:41:01 <AnMaster> argh lag
19:41:02 <ais523> distro upgrade, so I daren't shut them again
19:41:02 <ais523> ehiird: incidentally, I've been using Windows 7 on my office computer
19:41:02 <ais523> and the taskbar is really annoying me
19:41:04 <ais523> the method I have to use to switch to a window with the mouse depends on how many of them are open
19:41:06 <AnMaster> hm
19:41:11 <ehiird> ais523: I set vim up like this:
19:41:11 <ais523> which means I can't muscle-memorise it
19:41:11 <ehiird> map we :w >>irc.freenode.net/\#esoteric/in<cr>dg
19:41:11 <ehiird> imap /me <C-v><C-a>ACTION<C-v><C-a>^[OD
19:41:11 <ehiird> also, that is totally false
19:41:14 <AnMaster> argh
19:41:26 <AnMaster> everything from "<ais523> distro upgrade, so I daren't shut them again" to "<ehiird> also, that is totally false" arrived at once
19:41:28 -!- Oranjer1 has joined.
19:41:35 <ehiird> hmm, did I break this
19:41:36 <ais523> ehiird: what would you suggest I do, then?
19:41:43 <ehiird> hmm, did I break this
19:41:54 <ehiird> oh
19:41:56 <ais523> I'm happy to hear improvements, especially as I'm stuck with it
19:42:03 <ehiird> that map we is old
19:42:06 <AnMaster> ehiird, what about unicøde?
19:42:15 * AnMaster hopes this break something for ehiird 
19:42:18 <ehiird> make it: map we :w >>irc.freenode.net/\#esoteric/in<cr>:%d
19:42:29 <AnMaster> ☃☃☃☃
19:42:42 <ehiird> AnMaster: you're free to fuck off if you're going to say things with the explicit purpose of breaking my client, but no, at the moment I do not have it set up to handle unicode correctly
19:43:19 <AnMaster> ehiird, not breaking as such. Rather testing that it works. As a helpful service
19:43:30 <ehiird> yeah, sure.
19:43:40 <AnMaster> ehiird, since I'm likely to use unicode later. And then it might be more annoying if it breaks
19:43:46 <AnMaster> ehiird, btw, what OS are you on atm? OS X?
19:43:52 <ehiird> ugh, it should be: map we :w >>irc.freenode.net/\#esoteric/in<cr>:%d<cr>
19:44:01 * AnMaster guesses linux or OS X
19:44:04 <ehiird> i really fail at vim command history
19:44:13 <ais523> ehiird: that wasn't an attempt to break your client; I was wondering what would happen
19:44:16 <ehiird> AnMaster: os x. switching to linux soon.
19:44:19 <ais523> I assume that ii doesnt' really parse ctcps
19:44:23 <ehiird> ais523: I was talking to Anmaster
19:44:27 <ais523> fair enough
19:44:28 <ehiird> *AnMaster
19:44:38 <ehiird> anyway, I can just use sed or something if I want pretty ACTIONs.
19:44:39 <ais523> so it's a respon-to-ctcp-version-by-hand style client?
19:45:02 <ehiird> can you all SHUT UP while i copy this command from the irc window, my terminal sucks at seelection when things move
19:45:05 <ehiird> *selection
19:45:17 <ehiird> tada
19:45:20 <ehiird> thanx
19:45:33 <ais523> heh
19:45:49 <AnMaster> <ais523> ehiird: that wasn't an attempt to break your client; I was wondering what would happen <-- about?
19:45:54 <AnMaster> the unicode?
19:45:58 <ais523> AnMaster: I /ctcp versioned him
19:46:01 <AnMaster> ah
19:46:11 <ehiird> ais523: anyway, no, it doesn't support ctcp
19:46:15 <ehiird> ah; didn't even notice
19:46:20 <ehiird> i don't have the server tab open
19:46:26 <ehiird> (tab; i.e. file opened in multitail :P)
19:46:34 <AnMaster> <ehiird> can you all SHUT UP while i copy this command from the irc window, my terminal sucks at seelection when things move <-- fail. Or something. Something fails at least.
19:46:36 <ais523> what is multitail, btw?
19:46:51 <ehiird> multitail is like tail -f but you can scroll and search and stuff and it handles split-screens of files
19:46:56 <AnMaster> ais523, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitail
19:46:57 <ehiird> also it puts a little header at the bottom of each file
19:47:05 <AnMaster> ehiird, hey you are the one who tells him to google usually
19:47:06 <AnMaster> :P
19:47:16 * ais523 uses tail -F a lot nowadays
19:47:42 <ehiird> ais523: anyway, I could trivially script ctcp responses
19:47:51 <AnMaster> ais523, why -F?
19:47:54 <ais523> it's a GNUism, I think; it's like tail -f, except that if the file's deleted or renamed, then recreated, it follows the new one
19:47:55 <ehiird> here's the entire code of an annoying bot:
19:47:55 <ehiird> #!/bin/sh
19:47:55 <ehiird> tail -n 0 -f out |
19:47:55 <ehiird> while read line; do
19:47:55 <ehiird>     if echo $line | cut -f4- -d" " | grep -i 'rhee\+t' >/dev/null; then
19:47:56 <ehiird>         echo "Ding!" >in
19:47:58 <ehiird>     fi
19:48:00 <ehiird> done
19:48:04 <ais523> so it's useful for following logfiles that rotate quickly, for instance
19:48:04 <AnMaster> ugh
19:48:13 <AnMaster> ais523, hm. Such as?
19:48:22 * AnMaster can't think of any that rotate more than once every few hours
19:48:23 <ehiird> forwarding a channel is just tail -f #chan/out >#chan/in
19:48:37 <AnMaster> ehiird, not sure that is a good idea XD
19:48:41 <ais523> AnMaster: TAEB's, which can rotate once every few minutes if I keep restarting it
19:48:47 <AnMaster> ais523, well ok
19:48:49 <ehiird> AnMaster: I did it yesterday with #esoteric-blah
19:48:56 <AnMaster> ehiird, to where?
19:49:00 <ehiird> here.
19:49:21 <AnMaster> so what was/is #esoteric-blah about?
19:49:26 <AnMaster> ehiird, and what about rate limiting?
19:49:32 <AnMaster> if a lot of people is talking in there
19:49:34 <ehiird> #esoteric-blah = spam and bots.
19:49:35 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:49:39 <ehiird> AnMaster: um, ii handles that, duh
19:49:43 <AnMaster> ehiird, ah right
19:49:43 <ehiird> being, you know, an irc client
19:49:49 <AnMaster> ehiird, well. Who knows
19:49:55 <ehiird> kay, forwarding #esoteric-blahh
19:49:58 <ehiird> feel free to try it
19:50:06 <ehiird> *blah
19:50:15 <AnMaster> ehiird, would work if better if you were in there
19:50:20 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:50 -!- AnMaster(n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:50:22 <AnMaster> ah
19:50:30 <ehiird> methinks I am :P
19:50:30 <AnMaster> right. I went to #esoteric-blahh indeed
19:50:35 <AnMaster> since you said that
19:50:53 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:50 <AnMaster> <CTCP>VERSION<CTCP>
19:50:56 <AnMaster> heh
19:51:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, got any version replies to yourself from that?
19:51:12 <ehiird> AnMaster: say "rheet" or "rheeeeeeeeet" (or whatever) in #esoteric-blah
19:51:17 <ehiird> also, dunno.
19:51:29 <AnMaster> (my client doesn't handle ctcp except as whole line)
19:51:37 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:51 <AnMaster> quux?
19:51:44 <ehiird> no
19:51:48 <ehiird> it has to be rheet-onic
19:51:52 * Sgeo is going to slap vanBasco's Karaoke Player
19:51:54 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:51 <AnMaster> why?
19:52:28 <ehiird> just do it ffs
19:52:36 <AnMaster> ehiird, what does "rheet" in fact mean?
19:52:44 <AnMaster> google's define: wasn't helpful
19:52:53 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:52 <AnMaster> xyzzy
19:52:56 <ehiird> It means an infiniite plane of green.
19:53:07 <ehiird> Oh goddammit, just say /rhee+t/
19:53:12 <ehiird> Matches, that is
19:53:31 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:53:36 <Sgeo> Anyone have any suggestions for good MIDI players?
19:53:44 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has left #esoteric-blah
19:53:44 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:53:47 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has left #esoteric-blah
19:53:47 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:53:48 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has left #esoteric-blah
19:53:49 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 -!- oklopol(n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:53:53 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:53 <AnMaster> :P
19:53:55 <ehiird> you know, oklopol is the one flooding here.
19:53:59 <ehiird> JUST SAYIN'
19:54:15 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 -!- Sgeo(n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #esoteric-blah
19:54:16 <oklopol> who's to say what's to say
19:54:18 <ehiird> AnMaster: if you don't say rheet I'll do something vaguely insulting
19:54:24 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 <Sgeo> rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
19:54:25 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 <ehiird> Ding!
19:54:31 <AnMaster> ehiird, there he said it.
19:54:39 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 <AnMaster> rhaat?
19:54:43 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 <oklopol> murheet
19:54:43 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:54 <ehiird> Ding!
19:54:44 <Sgeo> Technically, I didn't say "rheet"
19:54:56 <ehiird> BEHOLD THE POWER OF
19:54:56 <ehiird> #!/bin/sh
19:54:56 <ehiird> tail -n 0 -f out |
19:54:56 <ehiird> while read line; do
19:54:56 <ehiird>     if echo $line | cut -f4- -d" " | grep -i 'rhee\+t' >/dev/null; then
19:54:57 <ehiird>         echo "Ding!" >in
19:54:59 <ehiird>     fi
19:55:01 <ehiird> done
19:55:05 <ehiird> Okay, so I could have omitted that /bin/sh line to floot less.
19:55:10 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <AnMaster> oklopol, is that Finnish?
19:55:10 <ehiird> WHO CARES :P
19:55:16 <Deewiant> It is
19:55:17 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <oklopol> AnMaster: yes
19:55:22 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <AnMaster> oklopol, what does it mean?
19:55:36 <ehiird> Dudes! Admire my totally kick-radding script that works without any scripting layer in my IRC client!
19:55:41 <ehiird> It's totally kick-radding.
19:55:42 -!- Oranjer has quit (Nick collision from services.).
19:55:53 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <oklopol> err
19:55:55 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <oklopol> like
19:55:58 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:55 <oklopol> woes
19:56:00 -!- Oranjer1 has changed nick to Oranjer.
19:56:03 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <AnMaster> kick raiding? Should tell lament that you are stealing those kicks then.
19:56:04 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <Sgeo> FUCK YOU vanBasco!
19:56:04 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <oklopol> sorrowz
19:56:08 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <oklopol> sad stuff
19:56:11 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <oklopol> flood flood
19:56:12 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <oklopol> flood
19:56:12 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <oklopol> flood
19:56:16 <ehiird> KICK-RADDING
19:56:17 <oklopol> I LOVE IT
19:56:24 <ehiird> ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT BABIES
19:56:29 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <AnMaster> oklopol, "woes"? Google's define indicates it is "WOES (91.3 MHz) is a non-commercial, educational radio station that broadcasts from Ovid-Elsie High School. It is known as "The Polka Palace.""
19:56:35 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:56 <AnMaster> which is probably  not what you meant
19:56:57 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Maybe you should look at dictionaries instead of Google define
19:57:06 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:57 <oklopol> AnMaster: next time try a translator and not a google
19:57:11 <ehiird> 14:34:35 <AnMaster> Oranjer, the conway thing. Expand on that please
19:57:11 <ehiird> A three-group team will produce a three-pass compiler.
19:57:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, doesn't have anyone handy atm. I'm on a train, using the wlan there
19:57:16 <AnMaster> so yeah a bit hard
19:57:23 <Deewiant> dictionary.reference.com
19:57:23 <AnMaster> laptop is all I have handy atm.
19:57:24 <Deewiant> en.wiktionary.org
19:57:25 <Oranjer> what
19:57:26 <oklopol> it seems there's a redunday in finns on the channel
19:57:27 <AnMaster> well ok
19:57:29 <oklopol> *redundancy
19:57:30 <Deewiant> thefreedictionary.com
19:57:54 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:57 <AnMaster> google define *usually* works
19:58:15 <Deewiant> But when it doesn't I'd check something else before complaining
19:58:16 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:58 <AnMaster> <CTCP>ACTION wonders how an ctcp action translates here<CTCP>
19:58:20 <AnMaster> argh
19:58:24 <AnMaster> not what I expected
19:58:31 <ehiird> No CTCP support. I'll probably sed-handle ACTIONs, though.
19:58:37 <ehiird> Since it's quite the ugly.
19:58:38 <AnMaster> ehiird, so what does:
19:58:41 * AnMaster test
19:58:43 <AnMaster> look like
19:58:45 <AnMaster> to you?
19:58:58 <ehiird> Like that.
19:59:01 <ehiird> No processing at all.
19:59:04 <AnMaster> ah
19:59:10 <ehiird> ^A displays as an inverted . on this terminal, fwiw.
19:59:19 <ehiird> Or rather, with multitail, at least.
19:59:40 <AnMaster> ehiird, you know, for clients that implements CTCP properly (unlike mine for example) that will look like you said it.
19:59:46 <ehiird> Incidentally, my me mapping is so awesome
19:59:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
19:59:59 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 18:59 <AnMaster> so from <CTCP> and onwards everything is inverted ehiird?
20:00:06 <ehiird> If I type /me, it literally becomes ^AACTION^A, with my cursor just before the second ^A.
20:00:12 <ehiird> So I see it expand right in front of me.
20:00:23 <ehiird> AnMaster: No, just the .
20:00:28 * ehiird loves this client!
20:00:38 <AnMaster> ehiird, just the<space>.?
20:00:45 <ehiird> Just the .
20:00:47 <AnMaster> ah
20:00:56 <AnMaster> the space. Right
20:01:26 * ehiird tries sic. You know, just to see if he can be even more hardcorely minimalist.
20:01:36 <AnMaster> ehiird, link?
20:01:37 <ehiird> (Of course, if I really was that I would swear off IRC.)
20:01:56 <ehiird> http://tools.suckless.org/sic
20:01:57 <AnMaster> ehiird, telnet + ping script like zzo?
20:02:13 <ehiird> Of course, sic doesn't have the fun UNIXness or filesystem scriptability.
20:02:25 <ehiird> That's just in ii (irc it).
20:02:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
20:02:44 <ehiird> Which is, like, DOUBLE the size!! zomg
20:03:30 <AnMaster> ehiird, hm. Does sic really require :m in front of every message? I would hate that
20:03:46 <ehiird> I think so.
20:04:06 <ehiird> Anyway, that's not really bad; I send message here with Ctrl+c w e and it's fine.
20:04:13 <ehiird> *messages
20:04:19 <ehiird> (Ctrl+c to exit insert mode.)
20:04:44 <ehiird> Admittedly it's more annoying at the start.
20:04:44 <ehiird>     68 if(msg[0] != ':') {
20:04:44 <ehiird>     69 privmsg(channel, msg);
20:04:44 <ehiird>     70 return;
20:04:44 <ehiird>     71 }
20:04:44 <AnMaster> ehiird, typing normal lines is the most common action on irc
20:04:46 <ehiird>     76 else if(strncmp(msg + 1, "m ", 2) == 0 && (p = strchr(msg + 3, ' '))) {
20:04:46 <ehiird>     77 *(p++) = '\0';
20:04:48 <ehiird>     78 privmsg(msg + 3, p);
20:04:50 <ehiird>     79 return;
20:04:50 <AnMaster> more common that server commands
20:04:52 <ehiird>     80 }
20:05:11 <AnMaster> therefore to me it makes sense that by default it should be "send to current channel"
20:05:12 <ehiird> So? The goal is simplicity. More work makes you think about what you say, anyway. but this is irrelevant; it has it.
20:05:15 <ehiird> *But
20:05:20 <ehiird> RTFCodesnippets.
20:05:28 <ehiird> *Snippets, I guess.
20:05:37 <AnMaster> ehiird, too tired to. *yawn*
20:06:06 <ehiird> Reading a few lines of C is easier than sending that line and you know it
20:06:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, this is what university does to you :/
20:06:31 <AnMaster> totally mentally exhausted after the day
20:06:56 <ehiird> Apparently your exhaustion begins at precisely the moment you're rebutted.
20:07:26 <AnMaster> ehiird, no. I haven't had to read any other code today here. Well one line of perl. But that was all
20:07:43 <ehiird> 14:40:35 <AnMaster> Oranjer, it seems (to me) obvious that people who can communicate better, and are working on a project will have less problems than people who *can't*
20:07:43 <ehiird> 14:40:44 <AnMaster> which seems to be all that law says
20:07:43 <ehiird> um, no
20:07:59 <ehiird> from those you can't derive "a three-group team will produce a three-pass compiler"
20:08:09 <AnMaster> bbl.
20:08:16 <ehiird> AnMaster: dude, they were 4 lines each, more or less.
20:08:22 <ehiird> of trivially short code
20:09:48 <ehiird> 18:20:22 <Sgeo> Most of those songs are now songs that, when I hear them, trigger what I guess is nostalgia
20:09:48 <ehiird> do you realise you're going to die in nostalgia?
20:10:11 <Sgeo> ?
20:10:29 <ehiird> well, not for certain. you could die saying ? too :P
20:11:15 <ehiird> 19:46:51 * oerjan eats some bread
20:11:15 <ehiird> 19:46:56 <Oranjer> sorry
20:11:15 <ehiird> 19:47:07 <Oranjer> :(
20:11:15 <ehiird> sorry, poor bread, that you were murdered :(
20:13:08 <ehiird> 20:03:48 <Sgeo> YES YES OOOOOOOOOOH YES YES YES
20:13:08 <ehiird> 20:04:09 <Sgeo> I GOT TIMIDITY WORKING WITH UNISON
20:13:08 <ehiird> 20:04:26 <Sgeo> Oranjer, MIDIs play BEAUTIFULLY
20:13:08 <ehiird> 20:05:13 <Sgeo> I used Timidity+Unison a long time ago to turn my midis into Ogg Vorbis files, and it's what I'm used to, so it's also a beautifully familiar sound
20:13:08 <ehiird> Have you considered looking for a support group for your orgasmic nostalgia?
20:13:30 <Sgeo> lol
20:13:47 <ehiird> I was only half-joking.
20:13:56 <Sgeo> lc
20:14:04 <ehiird> Lambda calculus.
20:14:18 <Sgeo> ...it was supposed to be a half "lol"
20:14:28 <oklopol> :D
20:14:47 <ehiird> argh, noow I can't stop seeing lc as a half-lol
20:14:52 <ehiird> C IS FOREVER DAMAGED IN MY MIND
20:15:06 <ehiird> fun fact, also applies about the language.
20:15:22 <AnMaster> err. unison? isn't it a file sync app
20:15:44 <Sgeo> AnMaster, http://www.personalcopy.com/sfarkfonts1.htm
20:15:48 <ehiird> No two people have EVER named two things Unison.
20:15:50 <Sgeo> It's a soundfont
20:16:01 <AnMaster> Sgeo, at least in this font c is more than half an o
20:16:10 <ehiird> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ and http://www.panic.com/unison/? SAME THING? The file syncer is OS X only and works via Usenet! Also it plays MIDI I guess?
20:16:10 * AnMaster looks for a true half circle in unicode
20:16:16 <ehiird> *SAME THING!
20:16:22 <ehiird> o isn't always a circle.
20:16:27 <AnMaster> ehiird, well true
20:16:36 <Sgeo> c was the closest I could get to half-o
20:16:48 <Sgeo> At least, without looking through Unicode stuff
20:17:11 <AnMaster> Sgeo, btw, that sound font seems rather small? what is the uncompressed *.sf2 file?
20:17:25 <Sgeo> How big is it? Hold on
20:17:25 <AnMaster> err
20:17:27 <AnMaster> how large yeah
20:17:28 <ehiird> 3 jiggabytes
20:18:01 <Sgeo> 27.9MB
20:18:04 <AnMaster> heh
20:18:06 <AnMaster> ~/soundfonts $ du -sh a340.sf2
20:18:06 <AnMaster> 77M     a340.sf2
20:18:11 <AnMaster> that is the one I normally use
20:18:25 <AnMaster> it has... acceptable quality
20:18:31 <AnMaster> and is zero cost
20:18:45 <Sgeo> I don't remember why I went with Unison
20:19:22 <AnMaster> Sgeo, you have a sb live card so you can load them? :)
20:19:30 <Sgeo> AnMaster, I'm using TiMidity++
20:19:34 <AnMaster> oh wait you said timid...
20:19:35 <AnMaster> yeah
20:20:03 <AnMaster> Sgeo, timidity always seemed buggy to me. segfaulting a lot. And even when it worked, it was rather jerky sound
20:20:26 <Sgeo> I also used freepats as a backup (to Unison). Apparently, the quality of this song is entirely dependent on freepats :/
20:20:54 <AnMaster> Sgeo, backup to?
20:20:58 <AnMaster> is unison incomplete?
20:21:15 <ehiird> "backup (to Unison)"
20:21:15 <ehiird> "backup to?"
20:21:32 <Sgeo> AnMaster, that's the only way I can explain the discrepency between what I hear now and what this .ogg file is sounding like
20:21:47 <ehiird> placebo
20:21:54 <Sgeo> No, no it's not
20:22:28 <ehiird> AnMaster: so how awesome is sweden
20:22:37 <ehiird> Sgeo: you realise that's what someone placeb...ing would say?
20:23:05 <Sgeo> ehiird, I'm playing the two side-by-side
20:23:18 <AnMaster> <ehiird> AnMaster: so how awesome is sweden <--  in what sense?
20:23:22 <ehiird> 10:37:04 <AnMaster> Oranjer, well. Anything after the jazz
20:23:22 <ehiird> And jazz is whippersnapper enough to call it the jazz! The rock music.
20:23:23 <AnMaster> social security?
20:23:24 <Sgeo> Either TiMidity++'s malfunctioning, or this song doesn't work with just Unison
20:23:27 <ehiird> AnMaster: in the awesome sense
20:23:44 <AnMaster> ehiird, varies between different areas I would say
20:24:24 <AnMaster> ehiird, atm the day time is rather unawsome for example. Sunset around 16:00 iirc. And it gets worse later during the winter
20:24:34 <AnMaster> on the other hand, in the summer we have very long days
20:24:35 <ehiird> sunset is like 16:00 here too.
20:24:46 <ehiird> doesn't sweden get those awesome tons-of-light, tons-of-night cycles at one point?
20:24:58 <AnMaster> ehiird, north parts of Sweden yeah
20:25:00 <ehiird> maybe only in the horrible-weather subarctic kinda parts
20:25:04 <ehiird> yeah
20:25:04 <AnMaster> but that is past the polar circle
20:25:27 <ehiird> so basically sweden is bipolar in both day length and ... polarness
20:25:30 <ehiird> hyuk hyuk
20:25:30 <AnMaster> which is about one night's travel by train from here
20:25:49 <AnMaster> (sleeping on the way up is the only sane way to travel that distance
20:26:04 <ehiird> Apart from crystal meth!
20:26:07 <ehiird> Wait, you said sane.
20:26:09 <ehiird> Never mind.
20:26:11 <AnMaster> XD
20:26:52 <AnMaster> ehiird, actually not very sane because you wake up a lot due to acceleration and deacceleration around the stations on the way
20:27:41 <ehiird> well I guess I know Sweden is awesome, since it doesn't actually exist, it's just Finland
20:27:52 <AnMaster> ehiird, I'm also told (mostly by US people) that the girls in Sweden are supposed to be awesome. I have no idea why they think this
20:28:11 <ais523> they're probably just thinking of ABBA
20:28:15 <ehiird> Probably because the girls in the US are terrible?
20:28:20 <ehiird> Just guessing. :P
20:28:20 <ais523> which they remember is vaguely Scandinavian
20:28:27 <AnMaster> ehiird, but why nothing about UK girls then and such?
20:28:38 <ehiird> vaguely scandinavian? they are actually swedish you know
20:28:43 <ehiird> AnMaster: because ours are worse.
20:28:43 <AnMaster> ais523, ABBA *is* Swedish. Not just vaguely Scandinavian
20:28:45 <AnMaster> ehiird, argh too fast
20:29:06 <AnMaster> ehiird, worse than US?
20:29:18 <AnMaster> and what about Norwegian and Danish girls then? And so on
20:29:22 <AnMaster> German?
20:29:27 <ehiird> Yes, on average. Also, I have no idea.
20:30:04 <ehiird> "Unidentified viral outbreak in Western Ukraine. State of Emergency Declared."
20:30:04 <ehiird> First thought: It's not lupus.
20:30:04 <ehiird> Second thought: Has Madagascar closed their port?
20:30:04 <ehiird> My brain is infected too, it seems.
20:30:23 <ehiird> *Have Madagascar or *closed its, pick one.
20:30:31 <ais523> ehiird: seriously? link?
20:30:44 <ehiird> http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/9zcrn/unidentified_viral_outbreak_in_western_ukraine/; http://zik.com.ua/en/news/2009/10/29/202374
20:32:32 <ais523> ouch
20:32:35 <ais523> the world is in trouble
20:32:43 <ais523> unless it turns out to be really bad at spreading, or something
20:32:43 <ehiird> Is it ever not?
20:32:46 <AnMaster> ehiird, the second one pops up a HTTP auth dialogue for "ZIK News Mangement Sysytem"[sic]
20:32:47 <AnMaster> huh
20:32:50 <ais523> ehiird: I mean, more than usual
20:32:51 <ehiird> ais523: better than H1N1
20:32:59 <ehiird> wait, no
20:33:01 <ais523> ehiird: for all we know, it might /be/ H1N1
20:33:04 <ehiird> it's killing faster than H1N1
20:33:05 <ais523> they haven't identified it yet
20:33:12 <ehiird> and H1N1 is pretty crap
20:33:15 <ehiird> it's pussier than regular flu
20:33:17 <ais523> and viruses are annoyingly capable of mutating
20:33:18 <ehiird> so that doesn't say much
20:33:38 <ehiird> ais523: a mutated H1N1 is a safe bet.
20:35:02 <ais523> wow, I just realised what's wrong with Epiphany
20:35:06 <ais523> it currently has no toolbars at all
20:35:09 <ais523> or even a status bar
20:35:13 <Sgeo> Is ADrive considered reputable?
20:35:14 <AnMaster> http://zik.com.ua/en/news/2009/10/29/202374 is rather badly written it seems?
20:35:16 <ehiird> You didn't notice that?
20:35:21 <ais523> and the options to turn them on are both marked as selected, and grayed out
20:35:23 <ehiird> AnMaster: yeah fuck those ukranians
20:35:27 <ais523> ehiird: I didn't notice it at first
20:35:29 <ehiird> why aren't they perfect at english
20:35:35 <ais523> it was only when I tried to hover a link to see where it went...
20:35:35 <AnMaster> ehiird, when even *I* notice it...
20:35:46 <ehiird> It's perfectly reasonable, it's just not very idiomatic.
20:35:49 <ehiird> *readable
20:36:01 <ais523> actually, I'm not even sure it's Epiphany
20:36:07 <ais523> it just calls itself "Web Browser" in the about dialog
20:36:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, well yes. Just some parts rather awkward
20:36:08 <AnMaster> and:
20:36:15 <ais523> it has the same icon, though
20:36:18 <AnMaster> [“In all, 262 patients are treated in hospitals, of these 16 in serious condition. !* children have died in rural areas and 70 in Ternopil,” he says.]
20:36:19 <ais523> which is why I thought it was Epiphany
20:36:21 <Sgeo> Most useless midi name ever: stheme5a
20:36:23 <Sgeo> .mid
20:36:23 <AnMaster> that wasn't completely readable to me
20:36:26 <AnMaster> that !* thing
20:36:35 <ehiird> A technical error.
20:36:43 <Sgeo> I have no clue what the name of the actual song is
20:36:52 <ehiird> For instance, they may have held down shift while typing 18 for some reason.
20:36:54 <Sgeo> Although I remember being told in 2003 that it was from a game
20:37:10 <ehiird> (Before you say "they should double-check", getting news out takes precedence.)
20:37:30 <ehiird> Sgeo: http://www.adrive.com/? Looks like shit and will almost certainly be out of business soon enough.
20:38:23 <ehiird> One, because offering 50 GiB of free storage is not profitable; two, because the website is cheesy and ugly; three, because these businesses are a dime a dozen, which is saying something -- every internet business already is a dime a dozen.
20:38:34 <ehiird> I certainly wouldn't trust them with anything not encrypted, either.
20:38:40 <AnMaster> ehiird, maybe
20:39:49 <ais523> ah, found it
20:39:57 <AnMaster> ehiird, I wouldn't use such online storage anyway.
20:39:58 <ais523> there's a "hide toolbars" option that hides all the toolbars
20:40:02 * Sgeo is mostly using it to transfer files between his computers
20:40:03 <ais523> rather than, you know, just hiding them by hand
20:40:18 <AnMaster> ais523, options like that, to hide toolbars and menubars and such are always annoying
20:40:31 <AnMaster> especially when they are hard to get back
20:40:34 <ais523> yes, it feels rather anti-Gnome to me
20:40:34 <ehiird> AnMaster: online storage can be useful.
20:40:42 <ehiird> Sgeo: Why do you ask questions and then ignore the answers?
20:40:45 <ehiird> It's really annoying and you do it a lot.
20:40:51 <AnMaster> ehiird, sure. I didn't say that. I just said *I* wouldn't use it
20:40:59 <Sgeo> Are there other things I can use? Any companies more reputable?
20:41:12 <ehiird> filebin.ca is good for quick transfers.
20:41:28 <AnMaster> between computers? What about using nfs or samba or such
20:41:35 <Sgeo> But then I'd have to zip the files
20:41:39 <AnMaster> samba if windows is involved
20:41:41 <ehiird> AnMaster: obviously not networked, or at least a not set up network
20:41:50 <ehiird> Sgeo: are you retarded? it's taken you longer to whine
20:42:00 <Sgeo> Actually, it is networked
20:42:04 <ehiird> you could use a less obvious form of going "well, I didn't want an answer other than the one I expected..."
20:42:10 <AnMaster> ehiird, I have to point out a flaw here. If you can reach the online storage you obviously have network connection
20:42:15 <Sgeo> So maybe I'll play with samba
20:42:22 <AnMaster> then you can at the very least use something like sshfs
20:42:38 <Sgeo> Although I remember trying to get it working, and I couldn't
20:42:46 <ehiird> AnMaster: Note "networked".
20:42:49 <ehiird> Also, routers.
20:42:53 <ehiird> It's not so easy to start a server.
20:42:58 <Warrigal> I tried to use Samba once. It didn't happen.
20:43:31 <AnMaster> ehiird, um. Isn't it?
20:43:47 <ehiird> Start server on port 80, look at it from another computer, oops, that didn't work, because your router isn't forwarding that port.
20:43:52 <AnMaster> ehiird, just require one computer able to do it. Then you wan use a VPN to it for the rest
20:44:09 <ehiird> Go to router config page, remember password, try a few more, open it, find the config item, add, click, click, click, TCP, port number, port number, find your local IP, insert it, OK, logout.
20:44:18 <ehiird> Die of sheer boredom.
20:44:19 <AnMaster> ehiird, password is in keychain
20:44:22 <AnMaster> :P
20:44:34 <Warrigal> I know my router password!
20:44:37 <AnMaster> also local ip is easy to remember
20:44:44 <AnMaster> 192.168.0.64
20:44:45 <AnMaster> for me
20:44:56 <AnMaster> 192.168.0.71 for the laptop when using ethernet
20:45:02 <AnMaster> and .72 for wlan
20:45:06 <ais523> Epiphany seems to be Webkit in 9.10, rather than Gecko
20:45:09 <ehiird> AnMaster: missing the point since, uh, I don't think he ever *started*, per se...
20:45:12 <ehiird> ais523: it is.
20:45:29 <AnMaster> ehiird, and I need quite a lot fewer clicks on my router
20:45:35 <Warrigal> My local IP is 207.72.191.67, which makes me happy.
20:45:38 <AnMaster> plus it has a telnet interface
20:45:39 <AnMaster> if I want tha
20:45:41 <AnMaster> that*
20:45:44 <ehiird> AnMaster: STFU
20:45:46 <AnMaster> but that takes longer
20:46:14 <AnMaster> ehiird, anyway. Once you have VPN or at least ssh set up you can do everything through that.
20:46:15 <AnMaster> :)
20:46:38 <Warrigal> Perhaps I should install Linux.
20:46:56 * Warrigal ponders the viability of iTunes under Linux.
20:47:21 <ehiird> Why would anyone want to use iTunes?
20:47:34 <ehiird> It's competent and usable on OS X and that's it. Not Windows, definitely. Rhythmbox is better.
20:47:51 <AnMaster> ehiird, opinion on IPsec?
20:48:07 <Warrigal> Then I'll check out Rhythmbox.
20:48:19 <Warrigal> See, ehiird, you're useful sometimes!
20:48:35 <ehiird> Rhythmbox comes with Ubuntu, btw.
20:48:45 <AnMaster> rythmbox is ok-ish. I still prefer for i in *.flac; mplayer "$i"; done
20:49:18 <ehiird> AnMaster: I have none, apart from noting that nobody uses it.
20:49:23 <AnMaster> Warrigal, ^
20:49:23 <AnMaster> Warrigal, I thought you were ignoring ehird?
20:49:25 <AnMaster> ehiird, ah.
20:49:25 <ehiird> AnMaster: That does not handle playlists, shuffling, skipping forward and backwards, searching artists, titles and albums with one field, iPod syncing, ...
20:49:43 <ehiird> *forwards, if it's backwards, I guess. (*blah, I guess. is my new catchphrase.)
20:49:45 <Warrigal> AnMaster: I'm ignoring *!n=ehird@* and *!i=ehird@*. ehird is currently neither of those.
20:49:49 <AnMaster> ehiird, ah playlists. I was working on a script for shuffling between playlists
20:49:51 <AnMaster> recently
20:49:55 <ehiird> ehird isn't even online.
20:49:55 <AnMaster> half-way done
20:50:02 <ehiird> if you want to be pedantic
20:50:04 <Warrigal> Well, actually, I'm ignoring *!*ehird@*.
20:50:15 <ehiird> AnMaster: CONGRATULATIONS! You're writing a music player.
20:50:22 <AnMaster> ehiird, that is a simple shell script
20:50:23 <AnMaster> :)
20:50:26 <ehiird> Do you want to:
20:50:26 <ehiird> (a) accept that you do in fact see a use of them,
20:50:26 <ehiird> (b) ignore this wheel-inventing?
20:50:43 <ehiird> No, no, I'm joking, b of course...
20:51:34 <AnMaster> ehiird, neither, since I realised I had no use for it. I tried it early on and well... I tend to prefer to listen to some specific song based on my current mood and such
20:52:09 <ehiird> Then why are you writing one?
20:52:13 <AnMaster> like "I think I want to listen to that slow Largo in Händel's Xerces about now"
20:52:15 <ehiird> I see.
20:52:47 <AnMaster> ehiird, well as I said, I'm not working on it any more
20:52:58 <AnMaster> that is why I used past tense when I mentioned it
20:53:01 <AnMaster> "was working on"
20:53:05 <AnMaster> rather than "am working on"
20:53:35 <Warrigal> ehiird, I suddenly wonder what you would think of a prediction market where the statements are mathematical sentences and closed automatically.
20:54:06 <AnMaster> for example. Atm I feel like listening to Gregor's opus 7 (or was it 6? will have to listen to check which one I'm thinking of)
20:54:14 <ehiird> I'm pretty sure Warrigal's thoughts literally have no context at all.
20:54:41 <AnMaster> Warrigal, heh?
20:54:51 <AnMaster> Warrigal, expand on this concept?
20:55:20 <Warrigal> ehiird: I have no idea what the context of my last thought was.
20:55:28 <Warrigal> AnMaster: well, do you know what a prediction market is?
20:55:35 <ehiird> Warrigal apparently thinks throwaway votes can accurately reflect the truth of a statement.
20:55:42 <ehiird> (Prediction markets prove this to be true for some things.)
20:55:55 <AnMaster> Warrigal, slightly
20:55:55 <ehiird> (Mathematical statements that require picking apart and analyzing are not one of these things.)
20:56:06 <ehiird> (Regardless of what the free-market-can-do-anything idiots say...)
20:56:17 <AnMaster> Warrigal, as in: I just checked on wikipedia and it sounded familiar
20:56:21 <Warrigal> It would be kind of neat at the very least.
20:56:41 <ehiird> It'd just reflect what Wikipedia says like 90% of the time.
20:56:54 <Warrigal> Remind me what Wikipedia says is the probability that P = NP.
20:57:32 <ehiird> It probably says "most mathematicians[citation needed][goat needed][i need to go pee] say[what does this word mean?] that P probably isn't NP[disambiguate][poop flower de-luxe]".
20:57:43 * Warrigal nods.
20:57:58 <ehiird> P=NP may be slightly more to the yes side than is reasonable because people might want it to be true.
20:58:09 <ehiird> Or rather, people want it to be true; voters might.
20:58:41 <Warrigal> It'll be Bayesian, too. >.>
20:59:10 <ehiird> Friendly Bayesian AI markets, sucking the cock of Eliezer Yudkowsky!
20:59:17 <AnMaster> to me P = NP seems unlikely. I'm no expert on this sort of stuff however
21:00:10 <ehiird> It's probably false.
21:00:14 <Warrigal> I actually have no good reason to believe it would involve any Bayesian updating. I just meant that it will acknowledge the existence of Bayes' law.
21:02:15 <ehiird> So uh, guess who else acknowledges the existence of Bayes' law?
21:02:18 <ehiird> YOUR
21:02:18 <ehiird> MOTHER
21:04:39 <Warrigal> My mom is in Sine.
21:04:53 <Warrigal> (Was that context-free?)
21:05:11 <ehiird> A statistical anomaly.
21:05:35 <Warrigal> The fact that my mom is in Sine, or the precise context-free-ness of that statement?
21:05:37 <AnMaster> <Warrigal> (Was that context-free?) <-- what line?
21:05:44 <AnMaster> about Sine?
21:05:45 <AnMaster> hm
21:05:47 <Warrigal> Oh, here are my socks.
21:05:48 <ehiird> THAT LINE WAS CONTEXT FREE
21:05:52 <ehiird> THERE IS NO WHAT LINE
21:05:52 <AnMaster> is that Sine the chat?
21:05:52 <ehiird> HA HA
21:05:59 <ehiird> No, it's the actual sine wave itself.
21:06:01 <Warrigal> Yeah, Sine the chat.
21:06:15 <AnMaster> ehiird, there could be further usages than those two afaik
21:06:38 <ehiird> What is "than"? The word?
21:06:45 <Warrigal> She's one of the digits of the sine of sqrt(163).
21:06:47 <ehiird> There could be further usages.
21:14:28 -!- adam_d has joined.
21:18:59 -!- ais523_ has joined.
21:23:09 <Oranjer> There could be further usages.
21:26:00 -!- ais523_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:27:00 <AnMaster> http://news.google.com/news?edchanged=1&ned=sv_se has a broken translation heh
21:27:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:27:12 <AnMaster> the "all news" thing in the sidebar
21:27:26 <AnMaster> is translated to "Vilket innehåll som helst"
21:27:29 <ehiird> gah vt100 terminals are a pile of shit
21:28:07 <AnMaster> which means "any contents at all"
21:28:11 <AnMaster> rather than "all news"
21:28:34 <ehiird> is it unidiomatic? because that's an ... alright translation
21:28:55 <AnMaster> ehiird, very awkward yeah
21:28:56 <ehiird> also fuck you, my google is in svedish now
21:28:58 <AnMaster> and confusing
21:29:00 <ehiird> lol "jag har tur"
21:29:09 <ehiird> Jag har tur, punk?!
21:29:13 <AnMaster> ehiird, "i'm having luck"
21:29:24 <ehiird> Swedish sounds so ridiculous
21:29:26 <ehiird> "E-post"
21:29:30 <AnMaster> ehiird, e-mail
21:29:31 <ehiird> do you guys actually call it that
21:29:44 <AnMaster> ehiird, well sv:post == en:mail
21:29:45 <AnMaster> so yeah
21:29:50 <AnMaster> and you have post office in English
21:29:53 <AnMaster> don't you?
21:29:53 <ehiird> but only the rfc guy saays e-mail
21:30:07 <ehiird> yes, you post(v.) an item of mail(n.)
21:30:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, what does non-rfc people say?
21:30:10 <ehiird> email
21:30:17 <ehiird> also, *what do non-rfc people say?
21:30:27 <AnMaster> ehiird, hm. epost and e-post are both common I would say
21:30:27 <Deewiant> ehiird: I do believe that when said instead of typed, those are fully equivalent
21:30:32 <ehiird> (it's just the RFC editor that prefers it that way. they're anal, in case you didn't know)
21:30:46 <ehiird> Deewiant: what, en:post and en:mail?
21:30:53 <AnMaster> ehiird, hah hah
21:31:06 <Deewiant> ehiird: No, e-mail and email
21:31:17 <ehiird> Yes, they're equivalent; but e-mail looks stupid and is archaic
21:31:27 <ehiird> Ain't beein' the 70s no' mo'
21:31:32 <ehiird> '''
21:31:36 <Deewiant> If you say so; it's what I've always used
21:31:40 <ehiird> Should have said 70's
21:31:49 <Deewiant> But then, I capitalize Internet.
21:31:57 <AnMaster> ehiird, what was those three ''' on the next line?
21:32:09 <ehiird> , AnMaster. Nothing.
21:32:13 <ehiird> Erm.
21:32:15 <AnMaster> hah
21:32:16 <ehiird> Nothing, AnMaster. Nothing.
21:32:49 <oklopol> prime fever
21:32:53 <AnMaster> ehiird, I was considering at first that it might have been trying to close unclosed ones. but 1) they didn't match up 2) ' and ' are the same, so that just wouldn't work
21:33:01 <ehiird> primary fever in the liver (pronounce leever)
21:33:01 <AnMaster> oklopol, sounds interesting
21:33:14 <AnMaster> ehiird, heh I read that as "pounce"
21:33:18 <ehiird> something something diva
21:33:25 <ehiird> um, read the digest of reader?
21:33:30 <ehiird> reaver.
21:33:42 <ehiird> also digest for reader i guess
21:34:10 <AnMaster> ehiird, happy wrong date set mailman day
21:34:18 <AnMaster> (yes I actually got one of them today)
21:34:25 <AnMaster> (with the wrong date in)
21:34:42 <ehiird> You mean Clock-Skewed Mailman Mailing List Reminders Day.
21:34:49 <AnMaster> ehiird, yeah :)
21:34:55 <AnMaster> that sounds better
21:35:30 <ehiird> We should make continually longer and longer-named Mailman-related holidays until calendars are as wide as magazines
21:35:37 <ehiird> AND THEN WE WILL HAVE VICTORY
21:35:42 <ehiird> MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
21:36:03 <AnMaster> ehiird, err I was just about to go for the "??? PROFIT" one there. But you did something else before I could :(
21:36:27 <ehiird> Stupid terminal word-breaking; I was wondering how you prof something.
21:36:43 <ehiird> (It's even mnore annoying when it breaks just before a space, so you get a space on the next line. Like it just did with this line in vim; argh!)
21:37:14 <ehiird> *more. If only I had not sinned^Wtypoed, it would not have happened.
21:37:32 <AnMaster> ehiird, it broke in the middle of the word?
21:37:39 <ehiird> No, just before a space.
21:37:50 <AnMaster> as in
21:37:54 <AnMaster> \n PROFIT"
21:37:55 <AnMaster> ?
21:38:10 <ehiird> "It's even more annoying". Please use your brain on that, and the preceding line.
21:39:13 <AnMaster> ehiird, where did it break in the line "<AnMaster> ehiird, err I was just about to go for the "??? PROFIT" one there. But you did something else before I could :("
21:39:13 <AnMaster> PROF\nIT?
21:39:19 * AnMaster is confused now
21:39:21 * ehiird claps
21:39:44 <AnMaster> "<AnMaster> ehiird, it broke in the middle of the word?" "<ehiird> No, just before a space." <-- made me believe that was not the case first
21:39:45 <AnMaster> :/
21:39:54 <ehiird> I was talking about my line.
21:40:01 <ehiird> I thought you were too.
21:40:48 <AnMaster> ehiird, ah
21:41:17 <AnMaster> ehiird, can't you just fix it in vim?
21:41:22 <AnMaster> a bit of vimscript or such?
21:41:38 <ehiird> Wouldn't fix the multitail or any other program.
21:41:39 * AnMaster is pretty sure it can be done in emacs, since some modes do.
21:41:47 <AnMaster> ehiird, good point
21:41:48 <ehiird> And I'm way too lazy to hack around idiotic architectures.
21:42:06 <AnMaster> like erc. I get word wrapping there.
21:43:34 <ehiird> I wish I could code some hardware. You can get rid of a need for a program that way, after all.
21:43:42 <ehiird> *code up some hardware
21:45:09 <AnMaster> ehiird, learn VHDL?
21:45:42 * AnMaster notes there is a course about the basics of VHDL during this spring
21:45:45 <AnMaster> or module
21:45:48 <AnMaster> I believe the term is
21:46:09 <ehiird> I'd have to buy VHDL chips, a display, blah blah blah. And that's rather overkill if you want a computer. And very overkill if you want an at least semi-fast one... (I need to make that Linux distro, but have no desire to deal with the hardware oddities of the iMac. Also, it'd be incredibly cognitively dissonant.)
21:47:03 <ehiird> Well, "need". :P
21:49:42 <AnMaster> ehiird, what about that computer made with wires wound around things
21:49:52 <AnMaster> probably been mentioned in here
21:49:56 <AnMaster> oh wait, semi-fast
21:50:00 <AnMaster> forget I said anything
21:50:15 <ehiird> I'd have to buy the materials, a display, blah blah blah. And that's rather overkblaaaaaaaaah
21:50:33 <AnMaster> ehiird, at least that imac is far from as bad as that performa fizzie keeps mentioning
21:51:06 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit).
21:51:20 <ehiird> Heck, the EFI system will be bigger than my distro.
21:51:32 <AnMaster> ehiird, not hard at all
21:51:40 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:51:44 <AnMaster> hi ais523
21:51:45 <ehiird> It's not that big, you know.
21:51:49 <ehiird> that's what she etc.
21:51:52 -!- rodgort has joined.
21:52:18 <AnMaster> ehiird, does Ω and Ω look the same to you?
21:52:21 <AnMaster> err wait
21:52:23 <AnMaster> no unicode
21:52:25 <AnMaster> dammit
21:52:29 <AnMaster> ais523, what about you
21:52:32 <AnMaster> do they look the same
21:52:37 <ehiird> Why yes, inverted ... looks like inverted ..!
21:52:45 <AnMaster> ehiird, :P
21:52:53 <ais523> ugh, Konversation seems to have deleted all my logs since June
21:52:58 <ehiird> I think I can see é though.
21:53:03 <ehiird> Nope. Damn you, multitail!
21:53:04 <ais523> meh, most of the channels I care about are logged publically anyway
21:53:19 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
21:53:20 <ehiird> HA! With ii, you read the logs directly!
21:53:20 <ehiird> (so cool)
21:53:41 <ais523> Konversation moved its logs from flatfiles to a weird database thingy last version
21:53:58 <ehiird> TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS -------->
21:54:06 <ais523> anyway, the upgrade worked, I think
21:54:09 <ehiird> Alas, if only IRC had diagonal arrow support.
21:54:22 <ais523> the bootup seems to take longer
21:54:29 <AnMaster> ehiird, err sure
21:54:30 <ais523> but the shutdown is very quick
21:54:31 <AnMaster> sec
21:54:34 <ehiird> What?!
21:54:34 <Sgeo>    ^
21:54:35 <ais523> it shuts down before I can count to 6 at a normla rate
21:54:37 <Sgeo>   /
21:54:39 <ehiird> 9.10 sped up boot massively.
21:54:40 <Sgeo> Bleh
21:54:42 <AnMaster> Sgeo, no
21:54:46 <ais523> in fact, I'm not entirely sure if it's shutting down or crashing
21:55:01 <ais523> ehiird: I know, but upstart seems to dislike me
21:55:10 <ais523> I'm not even sure if it's using kdm or gdm as the login manager
21:55:41 <ehiird> Does it do the KMS magic thing?
21:55:45 <AnMaster> ehiird, ais523:
21:55:46 <ais523> I'm not sure
21:55:48 <AnMaster>   ↗
21:55:48 <AnMaster>  ╱
21:55:48 <AnMaster> ╱
21:55:52 <AnMaster> kind of like that?
21:55:52 <ais523> basically, I get "Starting up..."
21:55:55 <AnMaster> not very good
21:56:01 <ais523> then, an Ubuntu logo on the centre of the screen for ages
21:56:04 <ais523> then a mouse pointer
21:56:11 <ais523> then a throbbing bar
21:56:12 <AnMaster> but that probably signifies that the process is shaky or something
21:56:14 <ais523> and then, the login screen
21:56:15 <ehiird> ais523: Do you get the fancy animated Ubuntu logo with the brownish/purplish background and a fancy wavy progress meter thing?
21:56:25 <ais523> ehiird: eventually, although in black and white
21:56:28 <ehiird> If you get anything else but that and "starting up...", it isn't working.
21:56:31 <ais523> there's quite a lot of time spent before that comes up, though
21:56:33 <ais523> with just a logo
21:56:35 <AnMaster> ehiird, I haven't updated due to some reported issues with ext4 in the new version
21:56:35 <ais523> in the middle of the screen
21:56:38 <ehiird> It isn't working, then.
21:56:42 <ais523> yep, thought os
21:56:43 <ais523> *so
21:56:48 <ehiird> AnMaster: so don't use ext4?
21:56:53 <ais523> but I can't find anything particularly useful in the syslog
21:57:00 <AnMaster> ehiird, a bit late now
21:57:06 <ehiird> ais523: what drivers?
21:57:16 <ais523> ehiird: I don't know
21:57:18 <ais523> what drivers for what?
21:57:19 <AnMaster> ehiird, I'm waiting for that bug to close or if it doesn't before jaunty support expires I'm going xfs
21:57:24 <AnMaster> or jfs
21:57:35 <ehiird> AnMaster: tar cdfgjkdfg / fuckext.tar; gpg --AWESOME fuckext.tar; cp fuckext.tar /thecloudomg
21:57:38 <AnMaster> or maybe even ext3. But those would all be equally painful
21:57:44 <ehiird> JFS, bitch!
21:57:46 <AnMaster> ehiird, 50 GB?
21:57:49 <AnMaster> or more
21:58:08 <AnMaster> ehiird, and that would take ages on my connection
21:58:09 <ehiird> XFS but with way faster metadata YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. AND NO DATA LOSS CROM CRASHES. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
21:58:11 <AnMaster> literally
21:58:18 <ehiird> JFS fuck yeah. Storing files 'n shit.
21:58:20 <AnMaster> ehiird, err not correct
21:58:26 <AnMaster> :P
21:58:28 <ehiird> No, correct.
21:58:35 <AnMaster> ehiird, it doesn't journal that
21:58:39 <AnMaster> so I'm going ext3 then
21:58:41 <AnMaster> probably
21:58:45 <ehiird> Nice vague "that".
21:59:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, that = data (non-metadata)
21:59:11 <AnMaster> xfs doesn't either
21:59:22 <ehiird> Who cares? JFS recovers data just as well as ext.
21:59:24 <AnMaster> ext3 can do it, but the ordered mode is somewhere in between
21:59:48 -!- Oranjer1 has joined.
22:00:09 <ehiird> JFS: XFS but with much faster metadata operationnos, no data loss from crashes, good and fast post-crash recovery, and low CPU usage. Totally kick-flippin'.
22:00:31 <ehiird> AnMaster: haha fail (ordered mode = only journal metadata)
22:00:35 <ehiird> you know ... like JFS
22:00:59 <ehiird> "It doesn't journal non-metadata, so I'll use ext3." "ext3 doesn't either." "Oh."
22:01:09 <ehiird> Well, I mean, it does if you use journal.
22:01:14 <AnMaster> ehiird, not exactly
22:01:30 <ehiird> A more accurate conversation: "It doesn't journal non-metaadata, so I'll use ext3." "Well, okay." "In ordered mode." "Um."
22:01:36 <AnMaster> ehiird, pretty sure jfs is like writeback
22:01:52 <AnMaster> rather than ordered
22:02:06 * Sgeo goes to try BleachBit
22:02:16 <ehiird> "JFS uses this level of journaling, but ensures that any "garbage" due to unwritten data is zeroed out on reboot". But really, it's pretty irrelevant. JFS has an excellent data recovery level and is very fast. How often does your machine crash while writing important files?
22:02:19 <ais523> ugh, the fonts seem messed up
22:02:23 <ais523> and a bit blurry
22:02:29 <ais523> I think they've done something negative to font rendering
22:02:29 <ehiird> How many of these writes are ruined by some seconds being lost?
22:02:31 <ehiird> Meh.
22:02:38 <ais523> ehiird: you're good with fonts, what settings do you recommend?
22:02:42 <ehiird> ais523: it is unchanged afaik.
22:02:52 <ehiird> ais523: What do you want? It depends on your goals.
22:02:53 <ais523> maybe they changed the font itself, then
22:03:02 <ehiird> ais523: You don't really care about typography, and you have very limited screen space. Correct?
22:03:11 <ais523> yes, and not all that limited
22:03:15 <ais523> well, it's 1280x800
22:03:16 <ehiird> Very limited.
22:03:17 <AnMaster> ehiird, idea: battery backed external RAID 5 case to bring with the laptop
22:03:26 <AnMaster> (not)
22:03:34 <ehiird> ais523: Then full hinting + subpixel. No autohinting.
22:03:58 <ais523> that's what I just changed the settings to
22:04:01 <ais523> (from slight hinting)
22:04:08 <ehiird> ais523: If you want typographically accurate, butter-smooth fonts, slight hinting + greyscale. If you can deal with a bit of colour fringing and get the closest to OS X, slight hinting + subpixel.
22:04:20 <ais523> aha, got it
22:04:21 <ehiird> The fringing is pretty bad though. (The last one is the default.)
22:04:28 <ais523> it's Firefox in particular that's messing up with fonts
22:04:29 <AnMaster> <ais523> well, it's 1280x800 <-- not very limited. Same as a previous laptop of mine had. Worked well.
22:04:37 <ehiird> It's very limited.
22:04:46 <ehiird> I couldn't work with it at all.
22:04:47 <AnMaster> ehiird, not really. it worked fine
22:04:58 <ehiird> Consider that 1680x1050 is tolerable for me.
22:05:02 <ehiird> I'd like a bit more.
22:05:10 <AnMaster> ehiird, 1400x1050 is of course the optimal resolution to me
22:05:22 <AnMaster> higher but same aspect ratio would be ok
22:05:38 <ehiird> Less common resolution, so less support, and less pixels with no benefit to 1680x1050?
22:05:40 <ehiird> woohoo
22:05:42 <ehiird> party
22:06:10 <ais523> ah, got it
22:06:13 <ehiird> 1680x1050 hasn't really a disadvantage vs 1400x1050; comfortable vertical resolution, and you can put stuff side-by-side easily.
22:06:19 <ehiird> ais523: Aha, got it. Ah, got it.
22:06:22 <ais523> DejaVu Sans is defaulting to "ExtraLight" in Firefox rather than "Book"
22:06:25 <ehiird> Thou doth repeat yourself.
22:06:30 <ehiird> heh
22:06:37 <ais523> and there seems to be no way to change it
22:07:25 <ehiird> Use Arora or something. I'd say Epiphany, but the Webkit version is seriously fucked up.
22:07:35 <ehiird> *WebKit
22:10:40 <ais523> ehiird: in what way?
22:10:45 <ais523> it seems to be working fine for me
22:10:47 <ehiird> I wonder whether my oh-so-wonderful distro should be i686 or x86_64.
22:11:34 <ehiird> ais523: Can't override the base font size, it's always your GNOME preference (it should be 16px, pretty much; everything is too small this way, especially Google). It tries to download files to /; if you set another directory, it's set back as soon as you open Preferences again.
22:12:08 <ehiird> The progress-bar-in-address-field looks ugly and you still need the status bar anyway, because the hover-over-to-show-URL thing you get without it is fugly.
22:12:21 <ais523> I was wondering why 16px in Firefox = 9px everywhere else
22:13:03 <ehiird> Remember us arguing about this and you defended it? Presumably you like your document font size but don't want the web to have tiny fonts... Dilemma time :P
22:13:43 <ehiird> Anyway, all those things I mentioned are regressions from the older Gecko version.
22:13:45 <ais523> ehiird: I think 9px should be the same in both places
22:14:00 <ehiird> You mean you think 16px should be the same, presumably?
22:14:06 <Sgeo> Well, Creatures Wiki is now using Monaco :/
22:14:18 <ehiird> Sgeo: oh shit it's fugly
22:14:24 <ehiird> they're moving now, surely
22:14:36 <ais523> aha, set Firefox to 9px and it looks better now
22:14:52 <ais523> no it doesn't
22:14:56 <ehiird> ais523: >_<
22:14:56 <ehiird> The point
22:14:56 <ehiird> your head
22:15:08 <ais523> I mean, the height of a 9px font - in pixels - is different in Firefox to what it is elsewhere
22:15:18 <ais523> nothing to do with context
22:15:21 <ais523> it's using different units, somehow
22:15:39 <ehiird> Firefox ignores dpi settings.
22:15:44 <ehiird> Is your dpi 96?
22:15:47 <ehiird> Check GNOME font settings.
22:15:54 <ehiird> If not, Firefox says fuck you and doesn't care about your display.
22:16:00 <ehiird> Good luck finding the about:config incantation.
22:16:07 <ais523> yes, it's 96
22:16:17 <ehiird> Hmm. Try a hand-stand.
22:16:19 <ais523> anyway, 12px Firefox units seems to be 9px Gnome units
22:16:25 <ais523> so now I have the font the same in the two of them
22:16:26 <ehiird> It won't solve your problem, but you get to do a hand-stand.
22:16:31 -!- Oranjer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:18:38 <Sgeo> Copernic!
22:18:38 -!- FireFly has joined.
22:18:55 <Sgeo> (Was reading an Uncyclopedia article and they had a screenshot of some Copernic thingy)
22:19:12 <Sgeo> I have search-software-related nostalgia now
22:19:54 <ehiird> Seriously, Sgeo, you have problems. People are not that nostalgic.
22:20:55 * Sgeo isn't that nostalgic about this, actually
22:21:09 <ehiird> Hmm... I need x86_64 if I want to support machines with more than 2 GiB of RAM without the PAE hack thing.
22:21:12 <ehiird> Sgeo: Yes, but still.
22:26:04 <AnMaster> Huh I have two weird fonts here ehiird. according to a font selector
22:26:08 <AnMaster> maybe you can help:
22:26:13 <AnMaster> "Helvetica [linotype]"
22:26:15 <AnMaster> and
22:26:24 <AnMaster> "Helvetica [Adobe]"
22:26:34 <ehiird> Are both outline or is one pixel?
22:26:47 <AnMaster> ehiird, the adobe one seems more blocky
22:27:10 <ehiird> If you pirated those, they'll be the Helvetica from Linotype and the Helvetica from Adobe (included with the Creative Suite and stuff).
22:27:22 <ehiird> Make a screenshot of text in both and I'll give a judgement.
22:27:28 <ehiird> 12px.
22:27:53 -!- nooga has joined.
22:27:55 <nooga> !
22:27:59 <nooga> ^
22:28:11 <nooga> !help
22:28:12 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
22:28:22 <nooga> !bf_textgen czesc idioto
22:28:30 <nooga> !bf_txtgen czesc idioto
22:28:38 <AnMaster> ehiird, pretty sure I didn't. Unless it was from a mac
22:28:54 <AnMaster> ehiird, and sure. sec
22:28:57 <nooga> uh/
22:29:01 <EgoBot> 108 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++++>+<<<<-]>>.>+.<++.>-------.<--.<-.>++++++.-----.+++++.++++++.>+.<.>>-. [528]
22:30:24 <AnMaster> ehiird, as for 12 px. I can only find these in the konq font selection dialogue
22:30:27 <AnMaster> so that is what you get
22:30:41 <ehiird> Then I may be unable to tell.
22:31:04 <AnMaster> ehiird, worth a try at least
22:31:20 <ehiird> I guess I should go for x86_64 for >2 GiB RAM without horrible hacks, but what about ze old hardwarez.
22:31:52 <AnMaster> ehiird, http://omploader.org/vMm5wYg
22:32:33 <ehiird> Adobe Helvetica is the X11 bitmap Helvetica font that everyone has.
22:32:38 <AnMaster> ehiird, right
22:32:43 <AnMaster> ehiird, the middle one?
22:32:46 <ehiird> Linotype Helvetica is, you know, an outline Helvetica.
22:32:53 <ehiird> Helvetica Neue is Helvetica Neue. From a Mac, probably.
22:33:04 <AnMaster> ehiird, yeah, it looks horrible however in konq. space between letters is all wrong
22:33:11 <ehiird> Which
22:33:12 <AnMaster> ehiird, yes I know what the third one is
22:33:15 <ehiird> s/$/?
22:33:24 <ehiird> s/$/\//
22:33:26 <AnMaster> ehiird, "linotype" "looks horrible however in konq. space between letters is all wrong"
22:33:34 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 21:32 <ehiird> Linotype Helvetica is, you know, an outline Helvetica.
22:33:34 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 21:32 <ehiird> Helvetica Neue is Helvetica Neue. From a Mac, probably
22:33:34 <ehiird> .
22:33:34 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 21:33 <AnMaster> ehiird, yeah, it looks horrible however in konq. spa
22:33:36 <ehiird> Unclear.
22:33:50 <AnMaster> ehiird, see my clarification ^
22:34:04 <ehiird> hmm... x86_64 has the disadvantage of breaking 16-bit binaries :P
22:34:15 <ehiird> AnMaster: You seemed like you were implying I could have figured it out myself.
22:34:21 <AnMaster> ehiird, no?
22:34:29 <AnMaster> ehiird, it was a timing issue
22:34:30 <ais523> make it portable to either, including in the same session
22:34:34 <AnMaster> reverse order here
22:34:36 <AnMaster> *shrug*
22:34:48 <ehiird> ais523: no
22:34:50 <AnMaster> ais523, context?
22:34:58 <ehiird> AnMaster: try reading
22:35:00 <ehiird> works wonders
22:35:07 <AnMaster> x86_64?
22:35:10 <ais523> AnMaster: 32- vs 64- bit
22:35:12 <AnMaster> helvetica?
22:35:13 <AnMaster> ah
22:35:26 <ehiird> See, it doesn't make sense with Helvetica, so you don't need to ask.
22:35:30 <ehiird> yay magical communication
22:35:31 <ais523> 64-bit Helvetica > 32-bit Helvetica!
22:35:36 <ehiird> totally man.
22:36:59 * AnMaster wonders how long before there is a 64-bit unicode
22:37:04 <AnMaster> I BET THEY CAN FILL IT UP
22:37:19 <ais523> there isn't even 32-bit, yet
22:37:20 <ehiird> http://cowbirdsinlove.com/668
22:37:25 <ais523> Unicode goes up to 0x10ffff
22:37:26 <ehiird> augur would like that one. maybe.
22:37:34 <ais523> which isn't even a whole number of bits
22:37:49 <ais523> it's somewhere between 20 and 21
22:37:59 <ais523> (also, some of them are used as surrogates and so don't count)
22:38:12 <AnMaster> ehiird, sad, but the letter spacing is all correct with Ariel
22:38:23 <ehiird> Helvetica Neue should be better-hinted.
22:38:33 <ehiird> Linotype Helvetica is of course not hinted because Macs don't hint.
22:38:42 <ehiird> Or at least not hinted well.
22:38:44 <AnMaster> ehiird, helvetica neue looks even worse. Just look at the \ line in the N in that screenshot
22:38:48 <ais523> why don't macs hint?
22:39:16 <AnMaster> ehiird, and helvetica neue is from a mac
22:39:23 <AnMaster> the linotype helvetica I don't know
22:39:35 <ehiird> Because
22:39:35 <ehiird> 1. designers and typographers use this shit, and they need it to look right
22:39:35 <ehiird> 2. at 100 ppi, who cares?
22:39:51 <ehiird> Linux can't only because freetype really sucks. OS X font rendering is pretty crisp.
22:41:40 <ehiird> "I'd just not feel right if my keyboard was worth more than my computer." [on paying for more than $200 for a keyboard, on a keyboard forum no less]
22:41:51 <ehiird> in fact, not even more; just paying >= $200
22:42:02 <ehiird> I wonder who's going to tell him that most people's computers cost more than $200...
22:42:17 <ais523> why would someone spend $200 on a keyboard, but only get a really cheap computer?
22:42:27 <ehiird> They wouldn't, in this case.
22:42:32 <ehiird> Presumably it's more a really old computer.
22:42:49 <ehiird> ais523: Anyway, e.g. a writer doesn't really care.
22:43:04 <ehiird> If it can run Word 97 they're probably fine, but it's important they can type comfortably and quickly.
22:43:10 <ais523> anyway, I just installed bootchart
22:43:15 <ais523> so I'm going to reboot to see what it displays
22:43:17 <ehiird> (At least, most writers, I'd say.)
22:43:22 <ehiird> ais523:
22:43:28 <ehiird> "bootchart - 90% of boot time"
22:43:28 <ais523> yes?
22:43:36 <ais523> I know it'll slow it down
22:43:40 <ehiird> I'm kidding
22:43:42 <ais523> I'll disable/uninstall it when I'm done
22:43:48 <ehiird> "A project I just did in the last 24 hours to come up with a translator using Wikipedia as a datasource. Let me know what you think."
22:43:50 <ehiird> ooh shiny
22:43:52 <ais523> besides, I don't think it can profile itself
22:44:00 <ehiird> "It doesn't seem to work. But other than that, it looks fantastic." *g*
22:44:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:44:42 <AnMaster> ehiird, heh
22:46:14 -!- sierinjs has joined.
22:46:38 <sierinjs> how big really is brainfuck's data block? -- 1000, or 1024?
22:46:50 <Deewiant> Isn't it 30000 officially?
22:47:05 <ehiird> Deewiant: sort of.
22:47:16 <ehiird> One of the implementations had a different limit, iirc. (in the original distribution)
22:47:24 <Deewiant> Meh.
22:47:25 <sierinjs> Hmm... mkay :]
22:47:29 <ehiird> sierinjs: 30,000 if you want something canonical; unlimited if you want something TC.
22:47:49 <olsner> 30000? such an uneven number :/
22:48:10 <ehiird> Your mom is so uneven.
22:48:19 <nooga> i wan osx fonts on linux ;f
22:48:38 <olsner> ehiird: since when is this about your mom?
22:48:49 <ehiird> Since it stopped being about your mom in the last line, I guess.
22:49:00 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:49:52 <ehiird> I really need the server file open so I can see people quit.
22:50:23 <olsner> you really don't need to, but you may want to
22:51:02 <ehiird> <innocent-bystander> I really need to go pee
22:51:02 <ehiird> <olsner> TECHNICALLY FALSE. You could go without peeing, but you may want to to avoid death!
22:56:38 <ais523> it seems to take 53 seconds to reach the bit where it's supposed to reach almost instantly
22:56:45 <ais523> although 20 of those were a fsck I canceled
22:57:00 <ehiird> that will change things; since upstart does parallel things
22:57:04 <ehiird> *things,
22:58:03 <ais523> agreed, it will
22:58:17 <ais523> it was slow before the autofsck
22:59:51 * ais523 tune2fses to set the mount count to 28
22:59:56 <ais523> (it normally checks every 30)
23:00:07 <ehiird> set it to 100000000000000000000000
23:00:13 <ais523> why?
23:00:18 <ais523> I don't like messing around as root
23:00:47 <Deewiant> Why's 28 better than 30
23:01:06 <ehiird> ais523: because ext sux0rzz!13981276345687
23:01:22 <ais523> Deewiant: because 30 would force a check
23:01:24 <ais523> and I want to avoid one
23:01:26 <ais523> but have it recheck soon
23:01:38 <ehiird> heh
23:02:03 * ais523 reboots
23:02:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:02:15 <Deewiant> Oh, he's setting the count, not the check interval
23:02:26 <Deewiant> That makes more sense
23:06:41 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:06:59 <ehiird> HI AIS523 DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH SOME HOUSEHOLD CLEANERS
23:08:13 <ais523> ehiird: I don't think so
23:08:49 <ehiird> http://ohthehugemanatee.net/word-o-matic/649/
23:08:49 <ehiird> languages that need to be made (enable js)
23:08:54 <ehiird> ais523: Oh.
23:09:02 <ehiird> Well. Um. Look at this penny. Good as new!
23:11:25 <AnMaster> argh where is oerjan when you need him
23:12:38 <ais523> ehiird (and anyone else who's interested): http://imgur.com/kp2KH.png is what my boot process looks like
23:13:05 <ehiird> Ooh, that gives me the idea for an animated bootchart thing.
23:13:08 * AnMaster looks
23:13:09 <ehiird> See it all go!
23:13:21 <AnMaster> ais523, 110 seconds?!
23:13:30 <ais523> AnMaster: regression
23:13:33 <AnMaster> ais523, does it usually take that long?
23:13:41 <ais523> depends on what you mean by "usually"
23:13:42 <ehiird> 9.10 takes like 20 seconds for most people.
23:13:43 <ais523> Jaunty was faster
23:13:47 <ais523> the fact that Karmic is slower is a bug
23:13:49 <ehiird> ais523's hardware is just fucked up
23:13:54 <AnMaster> ais523, "with/without bootchart"
23:13:58 <ehiird> it is not a bug, it has been optimised
23:14:03 <ehiird> it is faster for almost everyone
23:14:25 <ehiird> your configuration is an edge-case, therefore
23:14:26 <ais523> bootchart hardly made a difference to the speed
23:14:29 <AnMaster> ais523, you use winbind?
23:14:35 <AnMaster> and all those
23:14:42 <ehiird> "Winbind? What are you, gay?"
23:14:56 <AnMaster> ehiird, I just find it rather unlikely that he actually use it
23:16:09 <ehiird> *uses
23:16:09 <AnMaster> on jaunty disabling some services I didn't use helped a lot. From maybe 40 seconds to around 25 or so
23:16:09 <AnMaster> ARGH lag
23:16:34 <AnMaster> ehiird, eh? "some services I didn't uses"?
23:16:37 <ehiird> My distro will boot in something like 5 seconds with a hard disk, 3 on an SSD~
23:16:44 <ehiird> AnMaster:
23:16:44 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 22:14 <AnMaster> ehiird, I just find it rather unlikely that he actua
23:16:44 <ehiird> lly use it
23:16:44 <ehiird> 2009-10-30 22:15 <ehiird> *uses
23:16:50 <AnMaster> ah
23:16:51 <AnMaster> lly?
23:16:56 <ais523> the shutdown speed is amazingly fast, btw
23:16:57 <AnMaster> oh your line breaking
23:17:35 <AnMaster> ais523, potential issue. Some of those things begin outside the left edge of the chart?
23:17:52 <Deewiant> My printk times reach about 3.5 seconds, from then on the time is dominated by me typing passwords
23:18:01 <ais523> AnMaster: that's showing they have no pre-dependencies
23:18:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, arch?
23:18:17 <AnMaster> yeah, I'm not surprised
23:18:23 <Deewiant> Arch on x86-64
23:18:32 <ehiird> Hmm, really? Then I should be able to do faster.
23:18:32 <Deewiant> (Not sure which question you were asking)
23:18:35 <AnMaster> ais523, err I meant near the bottom async/1 and such
23:18:44 <ehiird> Let's say 2 seconds on a disk, <1 second on an SSD.
23:18:49 <Deewiant> And this is on a plain 7200RPM disk
23:19:09 <AnMaster> ais523, do you use timidity?
23:19:10 <ehiird> After all, add up the static binaries (less startup overhead), really minimalist system, very simple init system, minimal X11...
23:19:11 <AnMaster> for example
23:19:11 <ais523> apparently it's a known bug on laptops with slow hard-drives
23:19:12 <ais523> AnMaster: yes
23:19:14 <ais523> I do
23:19:17 <ais523> I installed it deliberately
23:19:17 <ehiird> (Yes, that includes X11 and WM startup)
23:19:24 <AnMaster> ais523, ouch that will hurt me. Mine has 5400 RPM after all
23:19:33 <ehiird> So yeah, less than 1 second startup on an SSD is pretty achievable methinks.
23:19:35 <Deewiant> Well, there's a few seconds of service startup before the password prompt as well
23:19:42 <ehiird> AnMaster: That's not slow
23:19:48 <ehiird> Slow is 4800 rpm
23:19:51 <AnMaster> ais523, how slow is yours?
23:20:04 <ehiird> Probably 4800 rpm; his machine cost £300 or something
23:20:05 <ais523> not sure; how do I fing out?
23:20:07 <ais523> *find
23:20:15 <ehiird> They call 'em fingers etc.
23:20:23 <AnMaster> ais523, and lighttpd? Do you need it. If not always it might be better to start it only when you do
23:20:40 <AnMaster> ais523, seriously, cutting down on some services could help a great deal
23:20:44 <ais523> AnMaster: it doesn't make an amazing amout of difference
23:20:48 <ehiird> He didn't ask for help, AnMaster.
23:20:50 <ais523> and the issue is not "boot is slow"
23:20:55 <AnMaster> ais523, oh?
23:20:56 <ais523> it's "karmic boot is slower than jaunty boot"
23:21:13 <ais523> (I have already cut out some services; I got rid of mysql because I wasn't using it and it was annoying me)
23:21:16 <AnMaster> ais523, SENDMAIL‽‽‽‽
23:21:17 <ehiird> Regressions are never allowed even if it improves the situation for most people?
23:21:24 <ehiird> Hooray! The endless march of progress.
23:21:26 <Deewiant> If I bothered to setup some kind of dependency solving for my services it'd be faster: the major wait is waiting for a network connection, which I can't start in the background since some other things depend on it
23:21:40 <ais523> ehiird: I don't think it was a deliberate regression
23:21:58 <ais523> and it's most likely that there's a mistake somewhere, just because a regression implies that it's definitely possible to do better
23:22:02 <ais523> via a known method
23:22:02 <ehiird> Deewiant: I bet I can do 2 seconds with a disk, getting a network connection.
23:22:04 <ehiird> Probably serially.
23:22:10 <ais523> ehiird: wired, or wireless?
23:22:15 <ehiird> Wired.
23:22:17 <AnMaster> ais523, how does bootchart figure out what depends on what?
23:22:18 <ehiird> Ethernet. DHCP.
23:22:23 <ehiird> AnMaster: it doesn't.
23:22:24 <Deewiant> Waiting for a DHCP response takes around 5-10 seconds, I think
23:22:35 <Deewiant> Or whatever it does; I presume that step is the major wait
23:22:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that much? around 2-3 seconds over ethernet here
23:22:48 <ais523> ehiird: it does, or at least it gets the info from somewhere
23:22:50 <ais523> probably init
23:23:08 <ehiird> Deewiant: Oh. Without DHCP then.
23:23:24 <Deewiant> I don't think you need to do much setup without DHCP
23:23:28 <ehiird> Anyway, point is that my distro will be totally kick-ass I guess?
23:23:40 <ehiird> Deewiant: Clearly you don't use it if your startup only takes 3.5
23:23:42 <AnMaster> ehiird, services starting after login window?
23:23:48 <Deewiant> 'course, these are things that you can't really change by changing the distro
23:23:49 <ehiird> LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, BITCH
23:23:57 <ehiird> AnMaster: Passwords being skipped.
23:24:07 <AnMaster> ehiird, hm?
23:24:10 <ehiird> Also, it's not really level; mine includes X11 and window manager startup, whereas Deewiant's doesn't.
23:24:12 <AnMaster> wait what?
23:24:19 <ehiird> AnMaster: For benchmarking purposes, you dolt.
23:24:24 <AnMaster> ehiird, well right
23:24:45 <AnMaster> ehiird, I meant, you can't manage that on a dual core system. Some stuff are generally CPU bound during boot
23:24:52 <AnMaster> while some are IO bound
23:25:01 <ais523> yay, dpkg now has a progress bar
23:25:11 <ais523> that's nice, I have so much stuff on here it takes a while to read the database
23:25:13 <AnMaster> ais523, what is the point of that?
23:25:17 <AnMaster> ais523, ah the db
23:25:17 <AnMaster> right
23:25:22 <ehiird> Anmaster: ??? you're talking nonsense
23:25:22 <AnMaster> that is useful
23:25:28 <ehiird> you can't do what on a d ual-core CPU
23:25:30 <ehiird> *dual
23:25:48 <AnMaster> ehiird, maybe. Depends on how many services you start and when you count the end
23:25:48 <ais523> AnMaster: bootchart uses colours to show if something's CPU-bound or IO-bound
23:25:54 <ais523> or neither, it might just be idling
23:26:17 <ehiird> AnMaster: You can't do WHAT?
23:26:21 <AnMaster> ais523, hm how does it figure out
23:26:31 <AnMaster> ehiird, ffs
23:26:45 * AnMaster gets a mad idea
23:26:53 <ais523> AnMaster: presumably the same way top does
23:27:21 <AnMaster> idea: use bootchart to benchmark cfugne. Just start whatever is needed to run cfunge + mycology and use bootchart on the whole thing
23:27:29 <ais523> wait what?
23:27:37 <AnMaster> ais523, what?
23:27:37 <ais523> you could, I suppose, if you ran cfunge as a service
23:27:42 <AnMaster> ais523, yeah
23:27:51 <ais523> but why would you use a boot profiler in order to profile a user-mode non-service program?
23:27:56 <AnMaster> ais523, well my plan was more of /etc/init doing it
23:28:07 <ais523> init is in /etc?
23:28:11 <AnMaster> ais523, no other tool I know of produces such a nice graph
23:28:23 <AnMaster> ais523, err whatever the first script executed is called
23:28:26 <AnMaster> /etc/rc?
23:28:31 <AnMaster> this varies between systems
23:28:33 <ais523> /etc/init seems to be a directory for me
23:28:58 <ais523> and the sort of init Debian (and therefore Ubuntu) uses puts the services in an init.d
23:29:02 <AnMaster> hm
23:29:08 <AnMaster> ais523, ah true, nothing like *bsd style
23:29:41 <ehiird>  /etc/rc is a stupid name becaues you can't name a good shutdown script.
23:29:52 <ehiird> *because, *no space at start (gets interpreted as /e, I guess)
23:29:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, doesn't arch have some /etc/rc.sysinit or so?
23:30:03 <AnMaster> ehiird, what?
23:30:14 <ehiird> would you stop fucking saying what to the most trivial lines
23:30:18 <AnMaster> no
23:30:19 <AnMaster> to
23:30:22 <AnMaster> <ehiird>  /etc/rc is a stupid name becaues you can't name a good shutdown script.
23:30:25 <AnMaster> not the other one
23:30:25 <AnMaster> ...
23:30:30 <ehiird> yes, it's a trivial and easily understandable line
23:30:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Yes, it does
23:30:32 <ehiird> jesus christ
23:30:48 <AnMaster> ehiird, what is wrong with /etc/rc
23:31:04 <AnMaster> and rc is not shutdown, but boot
23:31:06 <ais523> AnMaster: http://www.bootchart.org/docs.html explains how it works, if you're interested
23:31:12 <AnMaster> ais523, ah thanks
23:31:30 <ais523> hmm... Compiz seems more responsive than before in Karmic
23:31:39 <ehiird> AnMaster: Because /etc/rc and /etc/shutdown-script or whatever is inconsistent
23:31:44 <ehiird> Compare with /etc/init.start, /etc/init.stop
23:31:49 <ehiird> Or rc.start, rc.stop; whatever.
23:31:55 <ehiird> rc.boot, rc.shutdown, yada yada yada.
23:32:11 <ehiird> It's a bad name because it has no opposite.
23:32:22 <ehiird> ais523: better intel drivers, probably
23:32:27 <AnMaster> ehiird, err... /etc/rc.sysinit /etc/rc.shutdown iirc on *BSD?
23:32:31 <AnMaster> or maybe arch
23:32:33 <ais523> ehiird: seems reasonable
23:32:37 * AnMaster doesn't have either handy atm
23:32:44 <ehiird> AnMaster: Then it's not named /etc/rc, duh
23:32:52 <AnMaster> ehiird, /etc/rc prefix...
23:32:56 <ehiird> I complained about naming it /etc/rc, you see? Very simple?
23:33:01 <ehiird> No, you called /etc/rc the first executed script
23:33:05 <ehiird> And said it varies
23:33:14 <AnMaster> ehiird, and yes I think I seen /etc/rc too
23:33:29 <ehiird> Exactly, I'm saying that's a bad name
23:33:37 <AnMaster> ehiird, and /etc/rc.stop on that system to stop
23:34:04 <AnMaster> anyway
23:34:08 <ehiird> Your mom
23:34:11 <AnMaster> no
23:34:24 <AnMaster> ehiird, she just commented on your!
23:34:29 <ehiird> On my?
23:34:32 <AnMaster> yeah
23:34:45 <ehiird> How dare?
23:34:50 <AnMaster> my mom commenting on your. Making a his mom joke.
23:35:00 <ehiird> Grammar fail.
23:35:10 <ehiird> (Incidentally: "Grammar fail.": Grammar fail.)
23:35:22 <AnMaster> ehiird, well yeah that is my failure at grammar.
23:35:29 <AnMaster> ehiird, that's a meme isn't it
23:35:30 <ehiird> "My mom commenting on yours", fwiw.
23:35:51 <AnMaster> in soviet russia mom's make your son jokes?
23:35:53 <AnMaster> (or something)
23:36:05 <AnMaster> (and yeah that was meme fail)
23:37:04 <ais523> beh, they removed unlambda from the repos
23:37:15 <ehiird> In Soviet Russia make your son jokes beloning to mom?
23:37:22 <ehiird> In Soviet Russia mom is make your son jokes?
23:37:37 <ehiird> ais523: probably unmaintained
23:37:42 <ais523> yes
23:37:47 <ais523> does it really need maintenance, though?
23:37:58 <AnMaster> ais523, ehiird: there *is* an rc in ais523's bootchart. Around midway
23:38:13 <AnMaster> base of a huge block
23:38:24 <ehiird> your mom is an rc
23:38:27 -!- nooga_ has joined.
23:38:31 <ais523> time to go home, anyway
23:38:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:40:01 <ehiird> Wait, PAE is just for over 4 GiB of RAM.
23:40:21 <ehiird> So, over 3.25 GiB of RAM or so, accounting for reserved areas.
23:40:37 <AnMaster> ehiird, and for NX
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23:40:57 <ehiird> Nobody cares.
23:41:07 <ehiird> and you don't count because you won't use it anyway. it's not bloated enough.
23:41:07 <AnMaster> correction: you don't care
23:41:20 <AnMaster> ehiird, eh?
23:41:26 <AnMaster> you know what NX is?
23:41:30 <AnMaster> No Execute
23:41:34 <ehiird> Yes, I do.
23:41:45 <AnMaster> then that insult made no sense
23:41:56 <AnMaster> you know I'm paranoid. Thus it makes sense I use NX
23:42:07 <ehiird> I don't take what you want for it into account because you won't use it anyway, you see, and I don't care if you do.
23:42:23 <ehiird> So the fact that you want NX isn't relevant.
23:42:43 * AnMaster wonders what made ehird behave like this suddenly
23:42:51 <AnMaster> ehiird, anyway, are you planning 32-bit system?
23:42:58 <AnMaster> because otherwise PAE won't matter
23:43:04 <Deewiant> AnMaster: "it" as in his distro, not NX.
23:43:05 <ehiird> I'm not behaving like anything.
23:43:08 <AnMaster> since on 64-bit it is always in effect
23:43:12 <ehiird> What is it with people reading emotional contexts into my owrds?
23:43:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh hah
23:43:28 <ehiird> Deewiant: >_<
23:43:37 <ehiird> Wasn't that really obvious?
23:43:47 <Deewiant> Wasn't it really obvious that it wasn't obvious to him?
23:44:08 <ehiird> Nope.
23:44:26 <Deewiant> Meh, you're all idiots
23:44:28 <ehiird> He sounded like he was being hyper-literal about "nobody uses it" even after I explained that he wouldn't use the distro anyway.
23:44:30 <ehiird> Quite so
23:44:33 <oklopol> Deewiant: wasn't it really obvious it wasn't obvious to him it wasn't obvious to AnMaster?
23:44:42 <ehiird> Anyway, I'm trying to decide what bittage to use, AnMaster.
23:45:01 <oklopol> disclaimer: i have no idea what you're talking about
23:45:09 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> Wasn't it really obvious that it wasn't obvious to him? <-- of course
23:45:10 <ehiird> i686 is more compatible and uses less memory, but without PAE cruft we're stuck with a bit over 3 GiB of RAM available.
23:45:20 <Deewiant> oklopol: Of course it was, it was a rhetorical question
23:45:34 <ehiird> I'd rather not use x86_64 unless I have to.
23:45:39 <oklopol> Deewiant: yeah, i just like patterns
23:45:40 <ehiird> Although it is slightly less crufty.
23:46:05 <oklopol> it was obvious to me is was obvious to you it wasn't obvious to him it wasn't obvious to him.
23:46:10 <ehiird> Wait, x86_64 actually uses PAE?
23:46:12 * ehiird facepalms
23:46:24 <AnMaster> ehiird, yes and no.
23:46:31 <ehiird> "On x86-64 processors, PAE is obligatory in native long mode"
23:46:35 <AnMaster> yes
23:46:54 <ehiird> That pretty much uses any reason I have to go x86_64, then (4 GiB of memory and up without PAE rubbish)
23:47:15 <ehiird> Since x86_64 actually has the PAE rubbish... what stupid design.
23:47:19 <AnMaster> ehiird, more registers?
23:47:24 <ehiird> Eh
23:47:36 <AnMaster> ehiird, i686 is register starved
23:47:36 <ehiird> I'm not a ricer
23:48:02 <AnMaster> ehiird, also isn't some of the newer SSE versions and such only for x86_64? Like that new AVX one iirc
23:48:11 <AnMaster> I may misremember
23:48:21 <ehiird> Still not a ricer (also scientists are practically agents of the devil, so they should be prevented from computing)
23:48:48 <AnMaster> ;P
23:48:51 <Deewiant> Well, strictly there's no reason you couldn't implement them on 32-bit CPUs
23:49:01 <Deewiant> It's just that all the processors that do or will implement them are 64-bit
23:49:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I thought you couldn't enable those features in legacy mode?
23:49:49 <Deewiant> Since when do they need to be explicitly enabled?
23:49:57 <pikhq> ehiird: You realise that PAE is nothing more than adding another level of depth in the page table, right? ;)
23:50:32 <fizzie> I don't think I've mentioned that Performa more than half a dozen times or so.
23:50:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, since SSE? Because CPU has to save and restore register state between context switches.
23:50:45 <ehiird> Can you get 100 Mb/s in any of the Nordic countries apart from Finland? Always wondered why not
23:50:50 <ehiird> They all seem to cap out at 50
23:50:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, new registers/extended register size = new explicit enabling control register bit
23:51:27 <AnMaster> ehiird, that 4 GiB one?
23:51:47 <ehiird> Eh?
23:51:56 <ehiird> It's 4 Gb.
23:52:00 <Deewiant> Hmm, if the register has run out of bits on 32-bit CPUs then you may be right. I haven't looked into it.
23:52:01 <ehiird> And only one person has it.
23:52:09 <ehiird> And they use it to try their laundry.
23:52:11 <AnMaster> ehiird, true
23:52:13 <ehiird> They might not even still have it.
23:52:53 <pikhq> ehiird: Vast improvement on the status here.
23:53:04 <pikhq> Where almost nobody has 50 Mbps.
23:53:05 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:53:23 <pikhq> (rather, has it even available)
23:54:32 <ehiird> pikhq: I know, but 50 Mb/s feels so half-hearted, doesn't it? :P
23:54:47 <ehiird> It's like, you've got the right pipe tech and all, and you go and blow it all on half the speed!
23:55:19 * pikhq nods
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