< 1256947673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries Avidemux
< 1256947685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs a video editor, and a friend also needs a video editor
< 1256948075 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1256948981 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of editors < 1256948989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tried composing trance? < 1256949027 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: first, learn how to compose a bar of trance < 1256949034 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, congratulations! < 1256949048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1256949055 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what tools are there? < 1256949072 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The general electronic music and music-in-general tools, I would imagine. < 1256949075 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, drugs. < 1256949163 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256949174 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how does trance make trance? < 1256949185 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehiird: see, the reason you're not helpful is because you actually have no clue about this < 1256949199 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. :P < 1256949201 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i'm not sure why you're even talking, and which is why i asked if anyone tried composing trance < 1256949222 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a genre-specific electronic music composition tool, however. < 1256949227 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would be surprised if trance had one. < 1256949237 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it makes sense for those to exist < 1256949256 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote just to exist < 1256949269 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1256949273 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote exist < 1256949286 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256949289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.org/sgeo/quotes.txt < 1256949291 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63| The thing is just to exist < 1256949327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256949342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it reacted in the same minute < 1256949437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↓ < 1256949470 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1256949479 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night AnMaster < 1256949484 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256949487 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256949668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been fiddling a bit with a data-driven trance-composing approach (some NMF sound source separation and a bit of clustering and a bit of grammar induction), but there are no real results yet, and that's probably not exactly what you meant. < 1256949688 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256950049 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1256950102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : argh where is oerjan when you need him < 1256950106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere else < 1256950654 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep, man. deep. < 1256950729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep in the atmosphere < 1256950749 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256950761 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep in the antipodean atmo? < 1256950922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everywhere on earth is the antipode of somewhere < 1256950928 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1256950980 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're speaking of deep according to the base at which we begin measuring the depth or shallowness of a statement or thought < 1256951044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_you_ may be < 1256951091 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256951100 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, then I shall declare I am < 1256951199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Praeterea censeo ergo sum < 1256951244 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256951282 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare that I am, nice < 1256951401 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1256951513 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1256952190 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mehhhh < 1256952197 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256952200 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to decide 32-bit vs 64-bit pretty fast. < 1256952204 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: nothing. < 1256952207 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 < 1256952210 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO it < 1256952285 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: But that leads to higher memory usage and more legacy crap. Plus it uses PAE, which is a dirty hack, to access >4 GiB of RAM (my only reason not to use 32-bit); if I'm in for such a hack, I can just use PAE in 32-bit mode. < 1256952298 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 < 1256952299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48-bit gets so little love < 1256952299 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO it < 1256952306 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it's more "native" on modern processors, and it does remove a little bit of the cruft. It also has more registers. < 1256952666 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1256952687 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow all these new debian packages I keep getting. < 1256952696 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does an impression of a package from the "science" section:
< 1256952701 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian: the OS to use if you loooooooooooooooooooooooove new packages! < 1256952701 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libsmbxfrg - Redaltion of cross-FRGs to identify hectodyre sub-bindings < 1256952707 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMBxFRG is a library for the hyperboline redaltion of semi-morphic-biased cross-FRGs. The hyperboline method is a AFL-based alternative to the more common centrate methodology of retrograde semi-gerentic FRG analysis, providing superior handling of candid-sequence ITF markov meshes, and capable of detecting beta-cyclomatic metrisation quotendates within IETA-chordic sub-hectodyres of the first, second, or fourth orders. The fixed points of the FRG-rectifica < 1256952714 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This package contains the Python bindings to the library. < 1256952722 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: But what about the flux capacitors? < 1256952728 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256952747 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you have to wonder why the Debian folks haven't realised that having one huge monolithic repository isn't the solution and specialist third-party repositories are a good thing... < 1256952761 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ignore the subsections I don't care about < 1256952793 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had somewhere to put this sort of thing < 1256952802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a blog < 1256952815 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I come up with it so rarely that it's not worth it < 1256952815 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think the Debian developers would listen? < 1256952825 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? no < 1256952839 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait — that package isn't real? < 1256952841 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind the current situation < 1256952845 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw... you tease. < 1256952847 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehiird: well duh < 1256952857 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to tell. < 1256952867 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got cut off at "FRG-retifica", btw. < 1256952867 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are some packages that sound like that < 1256952886 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FRG-rectification limits may be expressed as any catroliner polynomial of a JK-reductive D-space. Chordates may be loaded from standard HerACleS format files, version 2.2 or 3.0-3.5." < 1256952890 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This package contains the Python bindings to the library." < 1256952917 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles for PAE criticism
< 1256952928 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got the last line. < 1256952928 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the line "* SimonRC does an impression of a package from the "science" section:" was a bit ambiguous < 1256952940 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were just using an odd use of the word imppresrsion. < 1256952943 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impression < 1256953035 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PAE is a hack to get the OS to address 36 bits of physical memory address space, in order to overcome the 4GB limitation of 32-bit OS." < 1256953035 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a weak argument, considering that 64-bit OSs do it via PAE too. < 1256953042 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, "minbif" looks interesting < 1256953057 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a IM-IRC gateway < 1256953069 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IRC-friendly instant messaging client" < 1256953075 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which way? Like bitlbee or the other way? < 1256953077 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or the < 1256953091 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC to IM. < 1256953096 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1256953098 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1256953107 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM is an inferior interface to IRC; and vice-versa too. < 1256953114 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really want it, use Bitlbee; at least it's well-known. < 1256953117 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it lets you see IM as IRC < 1256953125 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care the much < 1256953150 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitlbee does that. < 1256953192 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bitlbee.org/img/screenshot-mscchat.png < 1256953192 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now THIS is a good use case < 1256953230 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cat in "lucumo: eek" made me lol < 1256953283 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what the hell < 1256953290 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that doing what it looks like it is doing < 1256953299 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a green < 1256953305 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256953314 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomes < 1256953321 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait — PAE requires application support? < 1256953324 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a crock! < 1256953343 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... on one hand, fuck that shit, on the other hand, bleh! < 1256953609 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1256953617 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out almost certainly doesn't support 64-bit. < 1256954342 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't think that Debian can really compete with Gentoo. Sure it might be okay, but when it comes to dependencies, you probably are still going to have to get them all on your own. Or is there something like portage in the Debian world as well?" -- funroll-loops.info < 1256954480 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256954678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256954683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I see the stupidity in that < 1256954851 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gren < 1256954860 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehiird: ? < 1256954868 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grenade? < 1256954872 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grenoble? < 1256954876 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grenadine? < 1256954878 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally < 1256954880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grendel? < 1256954881 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totallyλ < 1256954886 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Gren out of that book I forgot the name of < 1256954927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beowulf? < 1256954936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. cannot believe I know that < 1256954950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grendel) < 1256954985 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256955044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, when I said Grendel before, I was referring to something else < 1256955084 0 :Kalagar!n=email@68.43.90.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256956355 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1256957265 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1256957302 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1256957593 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256957972 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1256958500 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256959760 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes off to temporarily disable the connections between his brain and his plexuses.
< 1256960151 0 :Kalagar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1256961781 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_sex_makespan < 1256963073 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256963257 0 :Jaykul!n=Jaykul@geoshell/dev/Jaykul JOIN :#esoteric < 1256963289 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, have you guys seen this guy looking for an example of a "real world" program written in an esoteric language? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1508581/is-there-any-practical-use-for-an-esoteric-language < 1256963310 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1256963395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mental benefits, I'd imagine < 1256963403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a practical use < 1256963422 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1256963433 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than that, though < 1256963460 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also provides *more* examples as to what a programming language *could* be, so you can then decide what it *should* be < 1256963464 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? right? < 1256963473 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, despite the headline, he's not really looking for a practical esoteric language (that's an oxymoron), but rather for an example of someone writing a practical, real world app in an esoteric language (regardless of whether it was a good idea to use that language ;) ) < 1256963485 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know < 1256963486 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo! < 1256963495 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone made a game in an esoteric language? < 1256963500 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a game making program in one? < 1256963504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: Yes; it's called Lost Kingdom. < 1256963508 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256963513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Brainfuck. < 1256963523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's an IRC bot in Befunge. < 1256963532 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256963540 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell the guy < 1256963590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt There's the source. < 1256963611 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1256963614 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ough < 1256963622 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1256964784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1256964823 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256965158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you something interesting about negation in ASL :x < 1256965191 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh okay < 1256965217 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no seriously, now I want to know < 1256965224 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that google told me what ASL is < 1256965235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::x < 1256965246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION probably knows it already.
< 1256965249 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crossing arms*? < 1256965260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so < 1256965265 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256965269 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMAZING! < 1256965275 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have never guessed < 1256965277 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASL has two ways of negating sentences < 1256965283 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256965293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is with an overt negation word < 1256965299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets just call it not < 1256965309 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not and say we...oh, okay < 1256965361 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is with another word, call it NEG which has no overt realization < 1256965383 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say < 1256965395 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word is there, but the way to "say" it is by not saying anything < 1256965422 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how does the errr...reader realize it is being negated? < 1256965425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both cases of negation, you have to use a THIRD "word", call it a scope indicator < 1256965437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that that does nothing more that indicate the scope of the negation < 1256965449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets denote those by []'s < 1256965455 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256965524 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an example of this negation stuff might be like so: < 1256965574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John [not] buy house == John is not buying a house < 1256965579 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also say < 1256965587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John [not buy house] == John is not buying a house < 1256965594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of these are the same in meaning < 1256965607 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256965641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you use the NEG word < 1256965648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get this: < 1256965652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John [NEG] buy house < 1256965654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must get < 1256965659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John [NEG buy house] < 1256965690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the negation scope marking extends to a small amount of time BEFORE the words "buy house" < 1256965699 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256965702 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if NEG really is there taking up space but lacking in expression < 1256965810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, interestingly, when there is an overt negation marker, you can omit the full scope marking, and by default it means it ranges over whatever its directly sister to < 1256965835 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256965842 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at WH questions you get similar things < 1256965862 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAF PEOPLE ARE FAGS < 1256965876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one its a little trickier because you have two question morphemes, but neither of them are overt < 1256965911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however one of them causes overt effects, so lets call them Q for the one with no over effects, and q for the one with overt effects < 1256965916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get both < 1256965923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who hate john Q < 1256965924 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1256965930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate john q who < 1256965950 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where q forces the question word "who" to move to the end of the sentence < 1256965950 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are "WH questions"? < 1256965957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentences that arent yes/no < 1256965967 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256965980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you also have a WH-question scope marker < 1256965982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets use {} < 1256965986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get < 1256966015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{hate john q who}, as well as, hate john {q who} < 1256966023 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with the non-overt Q, you only get < 1256966031 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{who hate john Q} < 1256966039 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never get, who hate john {Q} < 1256966049 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ir {who} hate john < 1256966052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or* < 1256966169 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256966235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get this sort of thing all over the place with other phenomena too < 1256966271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, get this, instead of using simple pronouns, because ASL is spatial, you just point < 1256966279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1256966302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're talking about other people who arent there in the conversation, nor easilly pointed at < 1256966309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just point in any random direction < 1256966314 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256966320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you want to unambiguously refer to that person again, you point in the same direction < 1256966321 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1256966326 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256966357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can unambiguously keep track of multiple unnamed participants by associating them with particular locations in the space around the conversers. < 1256966377 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghosts < 1256966509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1256966519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE DEAF PEOPLE < 1256966533 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks, though, if a conversation's referenced people gets so crowded that you screw up a reference < 1256966560 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a really need phenomena tho man < 1256966571 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256966692 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat* < 1256966693 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o; < 1256966815 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey augur < 1256966820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oranjer < 1256966859 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of taking advantage of knowing Conway's Law and making a business that makes it's decisions using Consensus Decision Making? < 1256966877 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats conway's law < 1256966896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1256966897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1256966903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know. < 1256966912 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an organization will almost certainly produce systems/products that match the internal structure of the organization < 1256966926 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehiird knows about it < 1256966938 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about compilers? < 1256967011 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Law < 1256967017 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think, augur? < 1256967042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh yes < 1256967043 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh < 1256967044 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i dont know. < 1256967051 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256967057 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1256967082 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of me taking those exams for credits, instead of taking the courses? < 1256967095 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256967104 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEP and whatnot < 1256967106 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1256967137 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, instead of taking the basic courses in college, I just take an exam that gives me the course's credit if I pass < 1256967213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1256967223 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad idea? < 1256967225 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1256967226 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being irritating. < 1256967231 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not! < 1256967240 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are. < 1256967245 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1256967253 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want your opinion on taking those exams < 1256967255 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a good idea? < 1256967310 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1256967314 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256967319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not a prophet or a fortune teller or anything! < 1256967321 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez. < 1256967321 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1256967349 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you're not in college? < 1256967351 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256967355 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1256967403 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1256967441 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: Isn't the point that you learn as much as possible? If you already know the content of one cource, you might as well learn something else instead. < 1256967467 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht does that mean? < 1256967471 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what, ha < 1256967480 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The credits are just to make sure you have learnt enough at the end < 1256967489 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying I should just take the tests? < 1256967521 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I'm saying that you should study for some other cource, one that you don't already know. < 1256967575 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm talking about taking the tests for courses whose credits are required, *and* that I already know < 1256967606 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, either I take the course, or I take the test, I can't opt out < 1256967610 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to, though < 1256967614 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think you can pass the exam, you might as well take it. < 1256967621 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1256967645 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was concerned--is it seen as less of an accomplishment? < 1256967668 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that matter? You get the credits. < 1256967671 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1256967689 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well, I shall do every such exam I can find! huzzah! < 1256967701 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :required ones < 1256967715 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1256967727 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, dad :( < 1256967760 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX is probably younger than you. < 1256967773 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 < 1256967776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ok < 1256967782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what someone my age? < 1256967784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZY < 1256967789 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1256967823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked on #bochs already, but I'm asking here too because more people are on here, in case anyone knows anything about Bochs or about operating systems or about MBR: < 1256967824 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ? < 1256967828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a disk image, and then I put at address $0: [B8 00 B8 8E C0 26 C6 06 FF 01 9A EB FE] and at address $1FE: [55 AA]. Why won't it load? < 1256967836 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh < 1256967892 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just displays the VGA BIOS screen and then won't do anything. < 1256967893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1256967897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebraic datastructures < 1256967898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1256967933 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1256967946 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these addresses zzo38? < 1256968011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are the addresses in the file called c.img < 1256968021 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256968035 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how uh how can you have addresses inside a file < 1256968050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the address of where the data is stored in the file. $0 is the beginning of the file < 1256968085 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1256968099 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $1FE ? < 1256968112 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B8 00 B8 8E C0 26 C6 06 FF 01 9A EB FE is the code section of the MBR. 55 AA is the signature bytes. < 1256968144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, at least that's what it is supposed to be, am doing something wrong? < 1256968152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't even load it. (I checked) < 1256968179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I can get it to load, then I can see if the code is correct. < 1256968190 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, first, how do I load it? < 1256968208 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trial and error? < 1256968504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that isn't how. < 1256968521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125401.htm < 1256968522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1256968528 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov eax, C08EB800 < 1256968528 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov Byte ptr ES:[esi],FFh < 1256968528 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add DWord ptr DS:[edx+0000FEEB],ebx < 1256968548 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it is x86 code < 1256968562 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1256968580 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep deprivation only does one thing to me, and that's make me sweat < 1256968584 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that weird? < 1256968601 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me sweat a bit too < 1256968604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1256968608 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cold grimey sweat < 1256968612 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1256968626 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't feel it, /but I know it's there/ < 1256968722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew some organic chemistry < 1256968729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could experiment with this stuff < 1256968758 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or start an illegal underground H+ organization x3 < 1256968807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: It is supposed to be a 16-bit code however, because it is real-mode, isn't it supposed to? < 1256968818 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey augur < 1256968822 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oranjer < 1256968830 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can always start an invisible school < 1256968855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a freeschool in baltimore < 1256968856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1256968859 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256968868 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, though < 1256968886 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason you aren't taking organic chemistry there, isn't there? < 1256968908 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur? < 1256968922 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what? < 1256968926 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a free school? < 1256968927 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good? < 1256968928 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256968939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a school run by anarchists < 1256968982 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256969197 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256969200 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty awesome < 1256969220 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they good teachers? < 1256969266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1256969268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont go to it < 1256969269 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1256969271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in DC < 1256969273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not baltimor < 1256969307 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256969317 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link please? < 1256969622 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256969629 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the school < 1256969633 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have a website < 1256969640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redemmas.org < 1256969657 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1256969732 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul[AFK] < 1256971672 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya peoples < 1256971695 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256971855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried other disk images too, nothing works, I just get the BIOS screen and then it just does nothing after that. < 1256972267 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I fixed it. It needs at least 2M memory allocated to work, I was allocating 1M < 1256972277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will try again. < 1256972326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay, I fixed it! < 1256972367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't the documentation say you need at least 2M allocated? < 1256972380 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256973043 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1256973051 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256973244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256973448 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1256973513 0 :ehiird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256973532 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256973541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what JFS is? < 1256973544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME < 1256973551 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript File System! :o < 1256973563 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm drunk < 1256973569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no < 1256973571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that idea < 1256973573 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1256973576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: okay < 1256973599 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256973602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: are you as think as you drunk you are? < 1256973618 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more < 1256973628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-kay! < 1256973646 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that's backwards but i read it perfectly the first time :D < 1256973689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os yas uoy fi < 1256973725 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just did < 1256973757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that your spelling is still perfect is suspicious. but maybe you have a spell checker. < 1256973775 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?gnihtemos ro dedrater uoy era < 1256973788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!syawla < 1256973821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spell better when my bac is over 20 < 1256973841 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1256973850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256973864 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION licks oerjan
< 1256973879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1256973888 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you've never licked something with a air dish number of 4 < 1256973902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! spelling error! < 1256973912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is an air dish number < 1256973936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős < 1256973949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1256974057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: let's get married! < 1256974065 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1256974073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay we're married now < 1256974075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i want a divorce! < 1256974076 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1256974109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get alimony < 1256974129 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ejaculates on ehird
< 1256974151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ejaculatory alimony. < 1256974159 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fucking love semen < 1256974326 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: can i have it back? < 1256974339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1256974700 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more ethanol y/n < 1256974879 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm hoping for a zombie apocolypse < 1256974886 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cra[ < 1256974891 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably spelled that rong < 1256975137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. one might say that. < 1256975228 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256975233 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256975627 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1256975629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm back < 1256975640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bearing tea, a bagel, and irish cream < 1256975800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds civilized < 1256975811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with internet access to boot < 1256975877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that supposed to mean? < 1256975999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1256976000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1256976020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. civilization is an illusion. < 1256976038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i should probably go to bed soon. < 1256976038 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that it is < 1256976184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's a secret. i should probably not have told you. < 1256976227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: mix the tea, the bagel, irish cream, and some alcohol-based beverage together < 1256976231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drinkeat it < 1256976235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT NOW < 1256976248 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irish cream is an alcohol-based beverage < 1256976249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh. that is _definitely_ not civilized. < 1256977053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so what < 1256977060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never have too much alcohol! < 1256977073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blow me < 1256978232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1256978589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kids < 1256980695 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-146.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256982420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1256984693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1256984711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00:38 also, i should probably go to bed soon. < 1256984712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1256984717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we are in same time zone < 1256984719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1256985397 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"restart" < 1256985740 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1256990943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMm51YQ < 1256990948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootchart on laptop < 1256991184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.04; not Koala yet? < 1256991202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old-fashioned; it's been out almost a day or so already. < 1256991578 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256992801 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1256992811 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1256994597 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1256994766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to assign this power to my character in D&D game, please read: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/my_rule_1.txt < 1256995752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256995865 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256996576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep deprivation makes me sweet < 1256989668 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1256989668 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1256997756 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256997930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklopol < 1256998015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey you . < 1256998123 0 :sierinjs!n=gulash@unaffiliated/sierinjs JOIN :#esoteric < 1256998181 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the pointer of block in brainfuck is 0 and a < occours inside [], then it exits from the [], right? < 1256998449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the IP encounters a < in the prorgram, the MP moves one step left on the tape < 1256998451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1256998527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1256998530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GRUB 2 is the default boot loader for new installations with Ubuntu 9.10 RC, replacing the previous GRUB "Legacy" boot loader." < 1256998539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though "Existing systems will not be upgraded to GRUB 2 at this time, as automatically reinstalling the boot loader is an inherently risky operation." < 1256999141 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mkaaaay, but what's IP/MP? < 1256999164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction pointer, memory pointer < 1256999288 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but if < happens within [] and MP is 0? < 1256999387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no what if, there are no exceptions < 1256999430 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, m'okay, but that doesn't explain much < 1256999529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by MP = 0 do you mean you're at the leftmost cell? that's implementation dependent < 1256999552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has nothing to do with whether you're in a loop so i assumed you meant the value of the cell and not the pointer < 1256999594 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making my own brainfuck interpreter ^_^ < 1256999712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been there < 1257001258 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257001863 0 :sierinjs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other conditions when interpreter exits from [] than when MP = 0? < 1257003550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257003655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Debian did the GRUB 2 update so that they added a single entry to the GRUB 1 menu to chainload GRUB 2 with; then you could test it out, and if it worked, say "sudo update-from-grub-legacy" to stick GRUB 2 to the MBR. (I guess it's still a bit risky, but better.) < 1257004556 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257004567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1257004570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1257004584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://omploader.org/vMm51YQ bootchart for laptop on jaunty < 1257004606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I tried karmic in a VM. What the hell is up with gdm? You can no longer change the theme of it easily it seems < 1257004627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ended up googling and doing some stuff from the vt as root to be able to fix it
< 1257004752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems so very unlike ubuntu < 1257004771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and horrible looking splash screen when you log in < 1257004933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the theme seems impossible to change altogether < 1257004965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly annoyed that the login screen lists all the users/usernames, finding the correct username is a speedbump for people trying to use a computer incorrectly < 1257004971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/hack-karmics-gdm-login-screen.html < 1257004972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1257004975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the list thing < 1257004975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I'm not sure if you can make that login screen come up remotely < 1257005012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205633 (fedora yes, but the approach works for me under ubuntu too): < 1257005016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults --type bool --set /apps/gdm/simple-greeter/disable_user_list true < 1257005046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still that instead requires you to click a button before entering user name < 1257005070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to check if you can make it use another login manager, from xfce or maybe kdm
< 1257005104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does xfce has one? < 1257005105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257005107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1257005126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have both gdm and kdm installed < 1257005135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu handled this by telling kdm to exit immediately upon loading < 1257005142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1257005144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind-of amusing, because upstart has it set to respawn < 1257005146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why start it at all < 1257005154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when the computer loads, gdm loads once, kdm loads about 10 times < 1257005161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before upstart notices the loop and stops respawning it < 1257005168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this seems rather silly < 1257005172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have some sort of < 1257005173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1257005179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOGINMANAGER="kdm" < 1257005180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257005183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some config file < 1257005190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this reminds me of Ubuntu trying to disable the beep on shutdown by blacklisting the PC speaker kernel module....) < 1257005202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw does karmic fix it properly? < 1257005208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that beep I mean < 1257005212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the beep doesn't occur, I'm not sure why < 1257005217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the shutdown sequence is entirely different < 1257005221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that the bug doesn't happen < 1257005222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257005267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ! -f /etc/X11/default-display-manager -o "$(cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager 2>/dev/null)" = "/usr/sbin/gdm" ] < 1257005274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird line to have in the upstart gdm script < 1257005285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what that is supposed to do < 1257005290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems the result of the test is never used < 1257005362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a shell script or just some "execute commands and stop if a command fails" script? < 1257005422 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257005438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... hard to tell < 1257005443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in a "script" block < 1257005455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be the latter, in which case it makes sense. < 1257005468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe < 1257005479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh funny thing < 1257005491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really know anything about upstart.) < 1257005492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synaptic thinks tzdata is deprecated < 1257005500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not available in karmic any longer < 1257005507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and lots of available packages depends on it < 1257005515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apt-get refuses to reinstall it even when told to < 1257005519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying it can't find it < 1257005601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange; there's tzdata 2009o-1ubuntu2 in karmic according to packages.ubuntu.com. < 1257005638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should try out the Koala in the iBook some of these days. Don't really remember what it had installed. < 1257005646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is the one I have installed < 1257005660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not sure < 1257005667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are *two* ones listed for me < 1257005698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://pastebin.ca/1650514 < 1257005704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make any sense of that? < 1257005738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to fix it < 1257005783 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257005849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also says that some packages are unused and suggests using autoremove for them < 1257005864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all l10n or docs < 1257005867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : openoffice.org-l10n-sv openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb openoffice.org-help-en-gb gimp-help-common openoffice.org-l10n-common < 1257005867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gimp-help-en gimp-help-sv openoffice.org-help-sv < 1257005937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have probably changed the dependency types so that those no longer autoinstall. (Maybe. If so, you can always tag those as manually installed.) < 1257005949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how to use Synaptic, though, since I always just use aptitude. < 1257005969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, apt-get for me unless I don't know how to do it that way... then I use synaptic < 1257006015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aptitude's better than apt-get at dependency-handling; you can browse resolution suggestions and so on. < 1257006040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's it going with the Ubuntu Software Center or whatnot? Wasn't that in karmic already? < 1257006068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah it is even worse than the old gnome thingy for that < 1257006070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1257006078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot more clicks to select something for install < 1257006083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deselect it < 1257006084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1257006091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to only be able to install one at a time < 1257006096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deinstall one at a time < 1257006103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "select check boxes, then click install < 1257006207 0 :Jaykul[AFK]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul < 1257008421 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [-]+++++++++++>[-]>[-]>>[-]+>>[-]<[-]++++++++++[>+++<-]>++<<<<<<[>[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[>>+<+<-]>[<+>-]>>[-]>>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<<<[-]>>[-]++++++++++[<<++++>>-]<<++++++++<[>>>+>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<<<[>>>>+>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<[>>+>[-]<[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<---------->+<[>-<[-]]>[<[-]>[-]<<[-]<---------->>>>+<[-]]<<<<-][-]>>>>[-]<[-]>>[<+<+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<< < 1257008421 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<+>>>+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<<<[<<.>>[-]]>>>>[<<<<<<->>>>>->-]<[>-<-]<<[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<<<.>.<<<<<[-]>[<+>-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<<-] < 1257008425 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1257008439 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<++> < 1257009006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too long < 1257009045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, you can easily compress that a bit though < 1257009052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the initial [-] isn't required < 1257009053 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtless < 1257009066 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just saw it somewhere and wondered what it did < 1257009074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it locally? < 1257009089 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would do, but i'm doing something else < 1257009330 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-34-119.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257009447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: paste it and set EgoBot to the pastebin < 1257009461 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bored of it now < 1257009493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, after trying to switch to kdm, X refuses to start < 1257009497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with completely unrelated errors < 1257009504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet switching back to gdm fixes it < 1257009511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how confusing < 1257009581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257009651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++>>>>+>++++++++++[>+++<-]>++<<<<<<[>[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[>>+<+<-]>[<+>-]>>[-]>>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<<<[-]>>[-]++++++++++[<<++++>>-]<<++++++++<[>>>+>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<<<[>>>>+>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<[>>+>[-]<[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<---------->+<[>-<[-]]>[[-]<[-]<[-]<---------->>>>+<[-]]<<<<-]>>>[-]>[-]>[<+<+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<-]<<[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]>>[<<+>>- < 1257009653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]<<<<<.>.<<<<<[-]>[<+>-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<<-] < 1257009655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, still too long < 1257009665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy peephole-optimising by han < 1257009667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hand < 1257009684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, paste it and set EgoBot to the pastebin! < 1257009736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/1650570 < 1257009750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that was anticlimatic < 1257009753 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf < 1257009764 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fungot style < 1257009798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1257009799 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1257009803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still there < 1257009811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, and you are confusing the bots < 1257009815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1257009822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fungot isn't here...) < 1257009830 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot ^style < 1257009831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is fungot!? < 1257009833 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!beef < 1257009835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Strange. < 1257009844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can run longer programs on fungot with the text-variable-thing. < 1257009869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IRC read failed."; must've been a netsplit, or break in my connection. < 1257009881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Hello, world! < 1257009896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, EgoBot doesn't accept that sort of input < 1257009900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+] < 1257009904 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
 < 1257009927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now my hostname is wrong, aw. < 1257009930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.+] < 1257009936 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������� < 1257009945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confining it to printables will probably produce a more readable output) < 1257009946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"jumpin' jumpin'" < 1257009948 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257009974 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257010011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 set +++++++++++>>>>+>++++++++++[>+++<-]>++<<<<<<[>[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[>>+<+<-]>[<+>-]>>[-]>>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<<<[-]>>[-]++++++++++[<<++++>>-]<<++++++++<[>>>+>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<<<[>>>>+>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<[>>+>[-]<[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<---------->+<[>-<[-]]>[[-]<[-]<[-]<---------->>>>+<[-]]<<<<-]>>>[-]>[-]>[<+<+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<-] < 1257010011 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: +++++++++++>>>>+>++++++++++[>+++<-]>++<<<<<<[>[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[>>+<+<-]>[<+>-]>>[-]>>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<<<[-]>>[-]++++++++++[<<++++>>-]<<++++++++<[>>>+>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<<<[>>>>+>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<[>>+>[-]<[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<---------->+<[>-<[-]]>[[-]<[-]<[-]<---------->>>>+<[-]]<<<<-]>>>[-]>[-]>[<+<+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>+>>-]<<[>>+<<-]>>[<<<<-] < 1257010024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add <<[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]>>[<<+>>]<<<<<.>.<<<<<[-]>[<+>-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<<-] < 1257010025 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1257010040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I tried running it locally, it used up 100% of my CPU and didn't do anything obvious < 1257010049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf str:0 < 1257010055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well. That's not so interesting, then. < 1257010072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, something like that can be used to run longer programs. < 1257010087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless I've broken it.) < 1257010126 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257010141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a fingerprint that creates Befunge VMs < 1257010154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could safely run arbitrary Befunge-98 without it breaking out and affecting the rest of the program < 1257010226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVRS is close < 1257010571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257011055 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257011086 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257011653 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257012247 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257014373 0 :Kalagar!n=email@68.43.90.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257014818 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257015191 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257015233 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1257015596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257015610 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257015615 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I am not oerjan < 1257015624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed you are not < 1257015634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc = irregular webcomic < 1257015634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, correct observation < 1257015640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, he knows < 1257015644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he asked before < 1257015653 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I had forgotten, thanks < 1257015654 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1257015655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, seems he forgot to close one tag < 1257015666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1257015675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAND < 1257015677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"News: I am away from the Internet from 31 Oct to 3 Nov. I will not be reading or responding to e-mail during this time. The comics should update as normal, but if anything goes wrong, I won't be able to fix it." < 1257015682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257015687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it things always break when he is away < 1257015693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of pratical joke? < 1257015697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i haven't read it yet < 1257015712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1257015726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523: something is broken with firefox in ubuntu karmic < 1257015733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1257015735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems fine for me < 1257015737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't use system wide setting for hinting and AA < 1257015746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more blurry and slightly subpixelishg < 1257015750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpixelish* < 1257015792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257015794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ubuntu-inside.me/2009/07/howto-fix-firefox-35s-font-hinting.html < 1257015796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems relevant < 1257016070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't realize it was 11:11 GMT before
< 1257016095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? < 1257016135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc update time. that "no reason" in the faq seems rather dubious now < 1257016160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is 11:11 *somewhere* if you publish it at 11 past < 1257016199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it could be a WWI reference < 1257016219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, it seems WWI ended at 11:00, not 11:11 < 1257016225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11:11_%28numerology%29 < 1257016281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have been 11:11:11 1/9 < 1257016361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot say i have noticed that particular coincidence. obviously it will now start cropping up all over the place :) < 1257016379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*synchronicity < 1257016481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just now i discovered wikipedia has deleted the page on the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. Coincidence? I think not! < 1257016519 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1257016522 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1257016560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Baader-Meinhof phenomenon? < 1257016561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i am joking. despite believing in synchronicity. < 1257016583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: YOU WILL NEVER KNOW NOW, WHAT, WITH IT BEING DELETED < 1257016586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're not joking in that it was deleted, some months ago IIRC. < 1257016587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows what Baader-Meinhof was, but not what the "Baader-Meinhof phenomenon" is/was
< 1257016593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use the power of the google < 1257016598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could tell me < 1257016690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THAT WOULD BE CHEATING < 1257016727 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257016742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cheating who? < 1257016786 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257016891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another karmic issue: you know the menu for logout/shutdown and such? < 1257016900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257016904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a status setting thingy at the top of it < 1257016908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IM clients < 1257016908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sub menu < 1257016912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all grayed out options < 1257016913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it links to Empathy < 1257016917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you get rid of it? < 1257016923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the options are grayed out if there aren't any running programs that care < 1257016929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want it to clutter the menu < 1257016929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know; it's just the one menu option < 1257016959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some way to turn it off somewhere < 1257016963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also switching to kdm seems like only sane option under karmic < 1257016964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll probably be on the Web by now < 1257016999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the name of the sub menu in English. For some reason that single menu is i18ned to Swedish here... < 1257017006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or l10ned I guess) < 1257017009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Set Status" < 1257017023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thanks. Oh what is the odd letter icon thingy for < 1257017043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what odd letter icon thingy? < 1257017060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, argh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/447964 < 1257017074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems linked to evolution, But it is in the indicator applet thingy < 1257017082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc is used for other (useful) stuff < 1257017089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not sure how to get rid of the evolution icon < 1257017094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use thunderbirf < 1257017096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird* < 1257017099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe it's not a missing . maybe the web page just has an evil beard < 1257017113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1257017124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's empathy it's linked to, not evolution < 1257017129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the letter icon < 1257017136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means new mail arrived, I think < 1257017149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just turn off evolution-alarm-notifier in the services thing < 1257017220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that *is* turned off < 1257017221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already < 1257017232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to uninstall the relevant packages
< 1257017269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution-alarm-notifier sounds badass. like, it goes off if somewhere evolves giant man-eating squirrels... < 1257017295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no. It is just a boring enterprisy gorupwareific thing < 1257017308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats AnMaster -----###
< 1257017313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T RUIN THE JOKE < 1257017317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn. Even uninstalling didn't help < 1257017325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1257017368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1257017377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mail-notification - mail notification in system tray < 1257017378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mail-notification-evolution - evolution support for mail notification < 1257017381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the first one too < 1257017416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, claims that isn't installed < 1257017418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no great help < 1257017504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I guess it is the indicator-messages package < 1257017505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however... < 1257017521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing that will remove: < 1257017523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : indicator-applet* indicator-applet-session* indicator-messages* indicator-session* ubuntu-desktop* < 1257017526 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257017529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck those deps < 1257017532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1257017580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you think I can help? < 1257017606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is good, and what level adjustment (if any), and what other stuff should I write on this file? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/my_rule_1.txt < 1257017626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you used ubuntu longer. But anyway I need somewhere to release my irritation. Speaking with you works. < 1257017746 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257017765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, how bad is this game, in your opinion: http://www.digitalmzx.net/wiki/index.php?title=Super_ASCII_MZX_Town < 1257017851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hard to tell from that description < 1257017860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to your second question) < 1257017881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try play it, if you want to. < 1257017901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXTO.ZIP < 1257017909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ < 1257017920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all you need to run it < 1257017924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you want to) < 1257017935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your first question, I don't think you'd persuade many people to play that class even with an LA of -19 < 1257017944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, or possibly race < 1257017964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a class or race, it is a add-on. And I would very much like to apply it to my character if the DM wants to < 1257018004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DM wants to think about LA too however < 1257018012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems like a way to die pretty quickly < 1257018012 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257018018 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I can get help, we can figure it out. I think -19 is too low < 1257018035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I can survive with this < 1257018048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even use it to my benefit in strange ways < 1257018057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably unlikely to run at anything but LA 0 < 1257018062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative LAs freak DMs out < 1257018066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and positive would clearly be unfair < 1257018075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DM actually said LA -20. < 1257018079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah, 3.5 math! < 1257018081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides
< 1257018083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I said that's too low (in my opinion) < 1257018124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't see how you're going to get out of the problem that you take damage every hour and have no natural healing < 1257018136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're going to wear the clerics on your team dry < 1257018156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't take damage every hour. It happens only in stuff in case of the things listed, in the past hour. < 1257018165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I avoid those things, I won't take that damage. < 1257018179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, we have no clerics in our party, however I have some healing powers < 1257018217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The ones about items/artifacts are if you have carried/used that item in the past hour, not counting inaccessible items due to transformation) < 1257018260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, many of these things can be suppressed temporarily due to the use of Permanent Max HP Loss Actions < 1257018339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My DM actually *suggested* negative LA. I disagreed but he insists < 1257018466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, he won't be in this country today. < 1257018470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative LA seems like a truly terrible idea < 1257018490 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know. < 1257018516 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you could still add up everything and if the total is negative increase it to +0. But I'm not sure how best it is though < 1257018544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs decent racial traits when you can cast wish at level 1? < 1257018573 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, that's why total LA should never be negative < 1257018660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a level 1 wish would require an LA of -16 < 1257018664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems kind-of unlikely < 1257018675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there was an effort to weaken goblins to the point where LA -1 was balanced, but they didn't manage it < 1257018678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi hypocrite < 1257018685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, zzo38 what is this LA? thing? < 1257018689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?// < 1257018692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what are you going to accuse me of hypocriticality about? < 1257018693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LA is Level Adjustment < 1257018693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LA=Level Adjustment. < 1257018695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257018709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a crutch to allow players to play stronger races by reducing the number of class levels they get < 1257018713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that your XP and starting money is calculated due to a different level than the actual one < 1257018717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why don't we talk about esolangs more! I wish this channel was on topic! can we talk about esolangs? < 1257018721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: blah blah blah DnD or whatever < 1257018721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh < 1257018725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit unlikely, really < 1257018733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this channel is zzo38's while he's here < 1257018739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, you wouldn't be able to cast wish at level 1 anyway due to XP requirements, but still...) < 1257018742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, LA+1 means your XP is calculated due to your HD level + 1 < 1257018746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché < 1257018783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is not mine, if it was it would clearly have a + sign at the beginning of its name instead of # < 1257018806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves 3.5e. It's a stellar exapmle of how NOT to design a game
< 1257018836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like 3.5e however there are some things wrong, that I try to fix by writing Icosahedral RPG instead < 1257018850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighas
< 1257018853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sighs* < 1257018860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how goes Feather? < 1257018874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, at least i was outright aggressive about it as opposed to passive-aggressive < 1257018876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257018911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: languages are really annoying when you find you need an operator on all objects to see if they're a particular constant or not < 1257018921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think you do < 1257018934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I believe X on karmic just crashed when the screen was locked < 1257018936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can't figure out how to parse that sentence in content < 1257018940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, context < 1257018948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now the lock screen option is gone < 1257018951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the is-it-a-constant < 1257018958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think you need it < 1257018977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does your karmic has an option in the logout/shutdown menu to lock the screen? < 1257018981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, the issue is, the only way to find out what an object is is to send messages to it < 1257018982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the messages are also options < 1257018988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and it works < 1257018992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it < 1257018994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mine is gone now < 1257019001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to login via gdm < 1257019001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you are messing with that menu... < 1257019004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not start x yourself. < 1257019012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I wasn't. I gave up on it < 1257019012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: aha, because it's gdm that handles the locking < 1257019014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1257019019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use kdm < 1257019023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then tough shit. < 1257019025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've been using karmic for months now and never had anything of the sort happen - and I'm on KDE < 1257019034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, kdm + gnome here < 1257019043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, issue is with gdm in karmic being horrible < 1257019046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting gnome to integrate with kdm is quite laughable. < 1257019052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it? i've used it and it was absolutely fine. < 1257019072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdm and gnome? Wha... < 1257019086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION explodes
< 1257019089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: AnMaster has decided that the new gdm is intolerably bad < 1257019090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't set a better colour scheme without a log of hacks to begin with (that default brown diarrhoea look is quite ugly!) < 1257019096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the user list < 1257019101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anmaster uses ubuntu because it "just works" and then changes everything about it and complains when it braeks. < 1257019102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there are hacks to get rid of it < 1257019102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breaks < 1257019102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't brown by default, it's greyscale < 1257019104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then < 1257019111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is LA -1 for this file I wrote good enough (my character's LA is already +1 so that simply cancels it out). I don't believe it should be lower. < 1257019112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to click a button before entering user name < 1257019121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't. < 1257019134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if that's diarrhoea colour to you, by the way, you have bowel problems < 1257019138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had orange diarrhoea. < 1257019147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is brownish < 1257019152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not greyscale < 1257019157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i forgot, your screen makes everything look utterly wrong. < 1257019164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sorry, it's orange in fact, you see. < 1257019176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever number it is I will add it to the file before printing it out a second time < 1257019233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm you have /usr/share/gdm/themes/HumanList/background.png as the bg image? < 1257019251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show me a screenshot, I'm not booting into Ubuntu. < 1257019256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure sec < 1257019271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since this is in a vm it will take a sec < 1257019287 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, you can discuss scoring of computer games? (Just any computer games in general, I mean) < 1257019305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some is I think the scoring is wrong or is OK but could be improved, usually I try to improve it < 1257019328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: make sure there isn't some repetitive action you can take to increase your score arbitrarily high < 1257019333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Death farming in NetHack < 1257019345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that where you farm Death himself < 1257019383 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I always keep rtack of this. However, many games do not. < 1257019389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:08 fizzie, yeah it is even worse than the old gnome thingy for that < 1257019390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:10 IMO < 1257019390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:18 a lot more clicks to select something for install < 1257019390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:23 or deselect it < 1257019390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:24 in fact < 1257019391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:31 you seem to only be able to install one at a time < 1257019392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:36 or deinstall one at a time < 1257019394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:21:43 no "select check boxes, then click install < 1257019397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can go to another package and install it while the other is installing < 1257019399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you kill-equivalent him repeatedly < 1257019399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is not more clicks < 1257019415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually killing Death permanently doesn't really make sense, but you can repeatedly knock him out < 1257019416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you counted? < 1257019421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type to search, double click the package, click Install. < 1257019426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally, it is possible (with very minor changes to the game) to fix it by requiring that you have to complete the entire game but with the lowest total score possible, instead of the highest. < 1257019437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the old one: type to search, tick the package, click install, click "Close" at the end < 1257019441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for uninstall < 1257019444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1257019450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same amount < 1257019457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the button changes to uninstall < 1257019459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of install < 1257019477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. I went to category and then only thing was an arrow button that you showed an info screen about the app < 1257019484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there the uninstall button was < 1257019488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the category listing < 1257019500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly more clicks than clicking check boxes in the old category lists < 1257019501 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, I think the ADOM scoring could definitely be improved a lot < 1257019503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you search when you want to uninstall something, because obviously you already know what it is. < 1257019521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no. I wanted to see "what useless crap is there here to get rid of" < 1257019576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about, if you're going to go against ubuntu's philosophy and be a malcontent about every-fucking-thing they've done, stop using ubuntu < 1257019597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say you want it to "just work" but clearly you're not happy with that considering how long you spend changing everything < 1257019604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that background is yellow-brownish on my desktop < 1257019609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257019631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you don't have to use Ubuntu, there are various others, you can even write your own if you prefer < 1257019660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The word for "yellow-brownish" is "orange". < 1257019670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the splash screen < 1257019674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is brown on my desktop too < 1257019683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define splash screen. < 1257019686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this http://omploader.org/vMm55MQ < 1257019703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(different res, just picked one randomly from that directory) < 1257019703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very-dim-browny-pinky-purpley. < 1257019711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-crimsony. < 1257019714 0 :Kalagar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257019714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the thing used for the ubuntu splash < 1257019723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is very ugly < 1257019723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257019754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, further, even the orange look of the gdm background is ugly as fuck < 1257019785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody gives a fuck what you think about the artwork! < 1257019794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you hate it so much you're going to die oh god, don't fucking use Ubuntu! < 1257019810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We get it! Ubuntu is uglier than babies thrown in a blender! < 1257019811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course you can work around it. What about the user list? ais523 didn't like that either < 1257019816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCP-413: THE BUILDINGS NEXT DOOR AND ACROSS THE STREET DONT BELIEVE IM A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY AND THAT I WILL GIVE AWAY THEIR PLANS < 1257019816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. ███████: What plans? < 1257019816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCP-413: THAT WE ATTACK TOMRROW < 1257019836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you continually use the argument "AIS523 DID IT TOO EXCEPT 10X LESS ANNOYINGLY"? < 1257019845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's highly unconvincing, even if i accept its blatant appeal to authority < 1257019847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define annoyingly < 1257019847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this argument about the gdm background is confusing me < 1257019855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster says it's orange, ehird says it's purple, I say it's grey < 1257019865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is not gray. No way. < 1257019866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says it's brown < 1257019869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257019875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same colour, technically speaking < 1257019881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, both of you, you both use crappy TN laptop displays < 1257019888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what colour it is :-P < 1257019891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle bit is browny < 1257019895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doees to crimsony at the sides < 1257019902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's sort of a hint of purple in the halo of the bottom bit < 1257019910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the splash < 1257019914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the gdm background < 1257019914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have said. < 1257019921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop confusing them < 1257019935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the gray scale thing is the shutdown thingy < 1257019982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway. The login list can as I mentioned be forced off by gconf stuff. But then you get a button to click before you can enter user name < 1257019986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is retarted < 1257020005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes ehird will find is silly that anyone wanted to hide user list
< 1257020033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, the user-list sort-of assumes people will primarily use the mouse < 1257020036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying < 1257020038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1257020039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit enter < 1257020040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1257020044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can type your password < 1257020055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, there's more than one user on the list? < 1257020055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to have to type user name too. < 1257020064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arrow keys? < 1257020069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IIRC, there's no obvious way to tell which user is selected < 1257020144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is all many different kind of problems, I have to write my own different distribution instead for better < 1257020154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, got it, it's in reverse video < 1257020158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257020163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next issue: I've used computers so much that I don't even /notice/ reverse video... < 1257020188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would cause the reverse video? screen tilt? < 1257020189 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257020228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: repeatedly switching between black-background and white-background programs and/or websites < 1257020230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has been called "Windows Linux Edition" in some cases < 1257020251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what exactly do you mean by reverse video here? < 1257020274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or you mean it does that for selection? < 1257020277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: black on white rather than white on black < 1257020283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257020283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever seen Linspire? < 1257020290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it does that for selection < 1257020308 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen Linspire too, but FreeGeek uses Ubuntu < 1257020350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1257020367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you have against a "enter username" text input? < 1257020370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly? < 1257020374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, and I never said I did < 1257020381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you acted like you did above < 1257020405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have something about you being a whiny bitch for hours because you chose a distro that you said you wanted to just work and complain when you fiddle with shit and expect that from everything in direct contradiction < 1257020473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err "complain when you fiddle with shit and expect that from everything in direct contradiction" < 1257020487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I complain that the new gdm is much dumbed down < 1257020491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1257020502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not alone. try google < 1257020502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually really like it, apart from the user list < 1257020515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said you wanted something that "just worked" instead of fiddling about, and that's why you picked Ubuntu. So you installed it and promptly fiddled with everything and continued doing so. < 1257020516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like having dropdowns rather than putting everything behind menus < 1257020534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're complaining that you can't keep doing this, thus exposing that no, you really don't just want something that just works. < 1257020540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I still want to be able to at least select background and such. ... < 1257020543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So stop complaining or switch to something fiddly. < 1257020545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a regression < 1257020552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go and whine on the bug tracker, then. < 1257020558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like user list on logon, either. Although currently I don't have Linux, I still turned off the welcome menu and set it to not keep the last username, require CTRL+ALT+DELETE, and a few oter things < 1257020564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I subscribed to an open bug about it < 1257020567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You complain about me complaining about software here instead of to the software authors; at least I don't repeat it for hours. < 1257020574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of about, uh, 500 or so subscribing users < 1257020576 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who has Windows but prefers this way must have done so < 1257020582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I'm far from alone < 1257020588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a whole 500. < 1257020594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like 90% of Ubuntu users. < 1257020607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, considering the majority doesn't report bugs or don't have accounts or such. < 1257020610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like malcontents are the type to subscribe and users who only have a mild preference wouldn't generally bother. < 1257020613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, not at all. < 1257020628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and users who only have a mild preference wouldn't generally bother." < 1257020638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I said on the line above partly < 1257020638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257020677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I fail to see why locking screen with kdm would be an issue. locking screen in KDE when using gdm works < 1257020681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done that before < 1257020684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, require control-alt-delete on login? for Linux? < 1257020691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 uses Windows. < 1257020691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not alt-sysrq-k < 1257020693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257020700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he hasn't got around to writing his entirely own distro with his own everything yet. < 1257020741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saK? < 1257020743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay found a solution for screen locking. xlock < 1257020744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I don't use Linux is because I already have Windows, once I get a new computer or this Windows stops or whatever, I will use Linux next instead < 1257020750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to integrate it with stuff < 1257020761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that effectively kills X though < 1257020813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1257020825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tools.suckless.org/slock < 1257020827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For screen locking. < 1257020846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like, screen is auto locked when you close lid < 1257020848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1257020854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257020880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the feature I want of screen locking. Locking for close lid, suspend to disk/ram < 1257020891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257020893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah closing lid *does* suspend to ram the way I set it up < 1257020895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1257020900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and still use kdm not gdm < 1257020925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257020934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what? < 1257020945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked you to a screen locker, I'm not interested in hearing your numerous demands with the implicit and false implication that it cannot do those things. < 1257020971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs to be hooked up to acpid or such then < 1257021015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, XLock considered harmful: http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/versus-xlock.html < 1257021026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore the parts about the screensaver prts, naturally. < 1257021168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESCRIPTION < 1257021168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : slock is a simple screen locker utility for X, < 1257021168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTIONS < 1257021168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : slock has no options. < 1257021176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ slock --help < 1257021176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: slock [-v] < 1257021176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1257021179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever XD < 1257021220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't press all the fun buttons! How on earth will I display the password asterisks in 72-point Impact now! THIS SOFTWARE SUCKS! It doesn't satisfy my control OCD. Add new bloat in it, quick, just so I can change how the bloat operates!" < 1257021236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I like slock < 1257021238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot < 1257021249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found the disagreement on options a bit funny < 1257021254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-v isn't an option < 1257021259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, flag then < 1257021259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change how the software works < 1257021263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry; I misunderstood your comment.) < 1257021267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it said options, not flags. < 1257021281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, usually they are the same in man pages < 1257021292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and -v does change the way it works < 1257021308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of locking the screen it prints out version and copyright < 1257021316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't change the way it locks the screen; it isn't an option about locking the screen. < 1257021327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a meta-option, so to speak; it's at the level of the application binary, rather than its inner function. < 1257021329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it changes it to *not* lock the screen < 1257021333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the man page might just be a typo. < 1257021343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the man page was made by debian btw < 1257021360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well that'd explain it. < 1257021376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't think it actually needs a manpage but there youg o. < 1257021378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you go < 1257021408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, debian is rather fanatic about that < 1257021416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right word?) < 1257021424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; if only they were any good at writing manpages. < 1257021536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1257021554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, why isn't there a mount you can do in userspace just on things you own. < 1257021584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could do $ mkdir blah; usmount -o loop -t ext2 fs blah < 1257021593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could write usmount as a setuid thing. < 1257021667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fuse style? < 1257021678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well. Hm < 1257021679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a regular full-blooded mount, with the files owned by the user. < 1257021693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the destination directory, and source device/files, must be accessible by the user. < 1257021703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, pretty much just for loopbacks. < 1257021709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would need to make sure options like nodev,nosuid and such are passed too < 1257021716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257021722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/linuxrc a symlink to /bin/busybox; queer. < 1257021736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if that is an initrd: why < 1257021744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought initramfs were used since ages
< 1257021752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplicity. < 1257021754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure initrd never was ext2 < 1257021758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the stage1 stali rootfs. < 1257021759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some other format < 1257021773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /linuxrc is for initrd unless I misremember < 1257021787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's for initrd, then. < 1257021855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, initrd is more complex from a kernel point of view. Since the kernel itself has to start /sbin/init after the /linuxrc process exits. With initramfs the initial process (/init unless I misremember) never exits but should end up executing the real init at the end < 1257021871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a minor detail; initramfs is, I belieeve, more cmoplex than initrd in itself. < 1257021877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*believe *complex < 1257021878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257021883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, eventually I believe they'll have enither. < 1257021886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*neither < 1257021888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My distro certainly won't. < 1257021892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing my own init will be fun. < 1257021900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1257021906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the uber-minimal BSD-style ones (like BusyBox's which doesn't even support runlevels) use inittabs and stuff. < 1257021906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initrd *are* ext2 < 1257021916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah that was right < 1257021921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine will be awesome and use shell scripts only! Mwahaha. < 1257021925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so the question is, why symlink it to busybox? < 1257021928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1257021932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe busybox has a linuxrc command < 1257021938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1257021939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking it'd start a shell or whatever < 1257021946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it treats linuxrc as init < 1257021949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts busybox init < 1257021968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, initramfs are gziped cpio archives. initrds are gziped file system images < 1257021974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia < 1257021994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that linuxrc is initrd? < 1257022004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's just an old name for the init process thingy. < 1257022006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that I'm certain of < 1257022008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1257022012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have other usages < 1257022015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you sure that it isn't that initrd starts via linuxrc? < 1257022017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would have expected /linuxrc to be a shell script < 1257022023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1257022026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't; it wasn't on my fucked up Debian netbook thing. < 1257022028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once the initial root file system is up, the kernel executes /linuxrc as its first process. When it exits, the kernel assumes that the real root file system has been mounted and executes "/sbin/init" to begin the normal user-space boot process." < 1257022035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said /linuxrc is initrd < 1257022037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all along < 1257022037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. < 1257022042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1257022070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian netbook? Oh the one where you were dumped into root login? < 1257022099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257022340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, configuring a kernel is tiring. < 1257022355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to set up a good environment to bootstrap a distro... < 1257022366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, first one on a given hardware yes. After that you can just do make oldconfig to check for changes usually < 1257022368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could write an init and drop it in my Arch fs and have it wor < 1257022386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not configuring for specific hardware, it's for my distro. < 1257022388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the occasional make menuconfig when you need to change some specific setting < 1257022395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, general. Most as m then? < 1257022405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most as m? < 1257022573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. Modules < 1257022587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No modules. < 1257022596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257022605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then all drivers are built in < 1257022606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257022608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257022611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all, just a small amount. < 1257022621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasteful though < 1257022630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't, there's going to be barely anything in there. < 1257022637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be smaller than any kernel you're running, almost certainly. < 1257022654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, none of the big ELF code... just uber-simple a.out. That's a pretty big drop right there. < 1257022668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably. But that means it will be limited to a few hardware options < 1257022672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No support for 83429239487234 filesystems... just JFS (the main filesystem), FAT, ext and a few others. < 1257022676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I'm going generic. < 1257022684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main non-generic hardware driver you need is for graphics. < 1257022686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, generic SATA drivers? < 1257022688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll have packages for that. < 1257022695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel-nvidia, kernel-radeonhd, etc. < 1257022703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about SATA? < 1257022717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SATA I'll probably include the drivers that do best with the most common hardware. < 1257022724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs the VIA SATA stuff for example on his desktop. And AHCI on the laptop.
< 1257022744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be very hard to add your own, since the build environment stuff will be easily downloadable so it's just a quick menuconfig and then using my mkfile to build the package. < 1257022748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll include a few. < 1257022762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate the kernel will be something like 5 MiB. < 1257022805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, less. < 1257022817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Arch kernel here is 601 KiB + 1.8 MiB < 1257022822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kernel26.img and vmlinuz26) < 1257022836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, arch does use modules though < 1257022841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. < 1257022847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also with modules built in you won't need any initrd < 1257022848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was giving a lot of credence to my major minimalist powers. < 1257022853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yep, I won't have any < 1257022856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight to init < 1257022858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on my desktop. No initrd there < 1257022869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless you want harddisk encryption or lvm or such < 1257022873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I bet you don't < 1257022885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might include disk encryption. < 1257022901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have a tool to compile and install a kernel with predefined configurations. < 1257022904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1257022907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Like: < 1257022935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# mkkernel encryption radeonhd < 1257022950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that'll add a package to your system called kernel-encryption-radeonhd. < 1257022953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorted alphabetically.) < 1257022963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And become the kernel. < 1257022967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/bin/kernel) < 1257022985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically like Gentoo's USE flags, but on a much smaller scale and just for the kernel. < 1257023017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan to support too much, though; LVM is quite unlikely. < 1257023019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting idea < 1257023024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since you can't shrink JFS anyway. < 1257023034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is a shame, but I haven't found something as good as JFS in other areas.) < 1257023039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, encryption of / does however require an initrd/initramfs < 1257023050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or a separate boot partition. < 1257023060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, _and_ a separate boot partition < 1257023063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1257023065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll see. < 1257023072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably make a tiny tiny stub initramfs. < 1257023077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, after all, the boot loader has to be able to load the initrd from somewhere < 1257023130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could have a user space /boot/decrypt-and-init and then have /boot as the original root fs and do some strange mount tricks... Oh and you would need to use init=/decrypt-and-init on the kernel command line < 1257023130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for a stock configuration, including X11 and window manager startup (login skipped; window manager will probably be dwm, so, minimalist), as soon as lilo hands over to the kernel, I expect to be able to finish boot in 2 seconds. < 1257023134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly some other stuff < 1257023142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(initrd is a less hackish solution then) < 1257023148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an SSD? Let's say 1.6 seconds. < 1257023165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: initrd is ext2 only, though, isn't it? Does it work if just the boot partition is ext2 only, I wonder? < 1257023189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? initrd is an ext2 file system image that is gzip compressed < 1257023197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's what I meant. < 1257023204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for /boot, it could be some other fs supported by the boot loader < 1257023205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read the initrd from a JFS partition, yes? < 1257023206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1257023209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it isn't encrypted < 1257023213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lilo supports JFS, which is nice. < 1257023251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about that "boot to other OS". grub-reboot maybe? < 1257023262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page says it does that < 1257023269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and grub2 is missing it XD < 1257023275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. Looks quite new, anyway. < 1257023284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe lilo has had it for a decade or whatever. < 1257023299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw you know that karmic is using grub2 by default? < 1257023302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257023319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following Debian, presumably. < 1257023321 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257023328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably < 1257023336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, opinions on "Ubuntu One"? < 1257023352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu One isn't as good as Dropbox, and FUCK THEM for using the Ubuntu name. < 1257023357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbox < 1257023359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1257023373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about from the dropbox bit (which I never tried): agreed < 1257023378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbox, for instance, has the feature "can access your files on obscure OSs like Windows and OS X". < 1257023380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up dropbox
< 1257023400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu One is just a ripoff of Dropbox with less features and without supporting other OSs. < 1257023410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much space do you get with dropbox no cost version or such? < 1257023414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 GiB. < 1257023422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as Ubuntu One. < 1257023425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257023431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you invite other people, set up other machines, blah blah blah, Dropbox rewards you with some more. < 1257023436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can get almost 3 GiB or something that way. < 1257023440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if you're a huge cheapskate. < 1257023443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that sort of referral scheme, it makes me avoid a company < 1257023449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, it means I can't trust peer reviews of the company < 1257023455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people are bribed to say good things about it < 1257023460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, I can't trust them as much < 1257023461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you think your friends are really, really scammy < 1257023478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who aren't massive assholes go "Hey, if you sign up for this I get some more blah" < 1257023496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's on a website or whatever, just look to see if it's a referral link and if so ignoore the review. < 1257023498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1257023516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's not just referring (and it only lets you refer a few, not continuously). < 1257023530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's other things like "put our client on your other machines" blah blah. It's not worth the effort though. < 1257023547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on other machines? Like all your computers? < 1257023554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As many as you want. < 1257023570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, lilo has more eyecandy than GRUB 1, I think. < 1257023574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. If I used such a service I would likely want it on all of mine < 1257023583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that feels sooo backwards XD < 1257023589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set up a menu grid instead of a list so you can use the bitmap background to have a fancy graphical menu. < 1257023594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so grub1 is the minimalist option? < 1257023599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Position your own countdown timer. etc. < 1257023602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, lilo is smaller. < 1257023608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does it all with less code. < 1257023614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hooray for gnu! < 1257023616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1257023619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, none of this stuff gets added to your MBR unless you enable it. < 1257023670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, lilo doesn't use the "boot: " interface by default; it uses a GRUB-style menu. < 1257023694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GRUB 1 can do higher-resolution things, though; lilo only supports a paltry 640x480x8 bitmap! < 1257023694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "don't have to remember to rerun the lilo command after a kernel update" bit and "option to edit the commend line" bit are important to me < 1257023707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about password protection for booting recovery kernel? < 1257023714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The former will be handled by my distro, the latter, I believe, you can just enter into the boot: prompt < 1257023715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one with init=/bin/busybox < 1257023720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like boot: and enterr a lilo line. Whatever. < 1257023724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't bother me, so I don't care. < 1257023731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think it has password protection. < 1257023733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enter < 1257023734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257023755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"menu-scheme=Wm intense white on magenta" < 1257023759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will pass on that colour scheme < 1257023759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, password required to edit the boot line is all I want. < 1257023763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1257023766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why Wm btw? < 1257023775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KBGCRMYW < 1257023780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upper case for intense. < 1257023780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah colour codes < 1257023781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W = white < 1257023784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m = magenta < 1257023796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K ? < 1257023806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black, probably. < 1257023808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257023810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYMK. < 1257023810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that the usual. < 1257023812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can do password= < 1257023815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an image < 1257023823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I always wondered. Why does CMYK has Y for black < 1257023828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't < 1257023830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257023830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has K for black < 1257023832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean K < 1257023836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because B is blue < 1257023838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, off by three keys < 1257023838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blacK < 1257023841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The “K” in CMYK stands for key since in four-color printing cyan, magenta, and yellow printing plates are carefully keyed or aligned with the key of the black key plate. Some sources suggest that the “K” in CMYK comes from the last letter in "black" and was chosen because B already means blue.[1][2] However, this explanation, though plausible and useful as a mnemonic, is likely inaccurate, the speculative invention of authors unfamiliar with traditio < 1257023841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nal printing technology." < 1257023842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1257023849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or that. < 1257023861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do they suggest instead? < 1257023871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The “K” in CMYK stands for key since in four-color printing cyan, magenta, and yellow printing plates are carefully keyed or aligned with the key of the black key plate. < 1257023874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like it, you know, said. < 1257023874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Key, like it says there. < 1257023882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1257023892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why people like their init to spew out a ton of crap. < 1257023907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it because they have so much crap that they like to see how far along their ages-long boot is? < 1257023918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "Watching shit scroll by for hours makes me a Linux expert overnight." < 1257023919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd only like to be bothered when something went wrong. < 1257023928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep, but every distro seems to do it < 1257023928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when things go wrong you can easily see where? < 1257023931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from those newfangled graphical boots < 1257023946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have those kids never heard of `if ! blah; then echo OMG BLAH FAILED; fi`? < 1257023963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if the kernel freezes early on in some unexpected way < 1257023968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably so that if the kernel locks hard, you can see what the last successful operation was < 1257023971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, what was the last line before that printed < 1257023973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guess what operation failed as a result < 1257023974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I said yes :P < 1257023975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm talking about in init < 1257023985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that point a fucked-up kernel lockup is probably quite unlikely < 1257023987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh it is just colourful messages here < 1257023988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1257023992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it does, good luck debugging it! < 1257023997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Starting sshd [ OK ] < 1257023999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1257024000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257024003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty pointless < 1257024012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the colours are pretty? < 1257024028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set a pretty image as your desktop so the 2-second boot gets to it :-P < 1257024037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even animate it. < 1257024042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with a 2 second boot it would be fairly pointless < 1257024046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257024051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as far as kernel lockups go... < 1257024059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add it as a boot option. < 1257024075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even add "Awesomedistro (debug kernel lockup)" or whatever as a lilo entry. < 1257024081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there anything wrong with those early kernel messages being printed though? < 1257024083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make your init a Mandelbrot zoomer, advances a bit every time something happens. You can then tell from the shape where it hangs up if something goes wrong. < 1257024085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just superfluous < 1257024092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it *hurt* anyone? < 1257024098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes up time and effort that could be spent speeding up the boot < 1257024105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1257024107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally time; those prints are so expensive. :P < 1257024112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not) < 1257024116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, it's just — < 1257024126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just asking if there's a justifiable point apart from watching shit scroll by. < 1257024139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you want just a single like like: "Loading ...." < 1257024141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the only reason is an early kernel hangup, and you can easily just force the kernel to spew a lot, I guess I'll disable it. < 1257024143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1257024144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe a few more. < 1257024150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like: < 1257024162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh like "we go to init" "starting GUI"? < 1257024165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257024167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1257024183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better messages: < 1257024188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading kernel... < 1257024194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257024197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! time for init and we are still alive! < 1257024198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had written that as my first! < 1257024201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1257024224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading messages... < 1257024227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew, we almost made it, just the GUI left. Pray for X working well for once! < 1257024236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh god, I'm bleeding, FUCK, fuck, get me to a doctor... my la-ast wish... is... to... start X11... farew-well... know me as...b-boot p-p... proc-cess..HYUAAAAAAAAAAAGhhgj" < 1257024242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck < 1257024254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice one XD < 1257024266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printk("Printing this message...\n"); < 1257024275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "Starting X. Good luck. (You will need it!)" < 1257024315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You've started X11 successfully 10 times in a row. As a precaution, I will drop you to a single-user shell to fix the problems you will have this time." < 1257024319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1257024324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haha < 1257024346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New device detected since last boot. Please remove it and reboot. < 1257024354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1257024387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, addendum to that. < 1257024394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like that mandelbrot init idea, by the way < 1257024407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lucky it isn't Windows eh? They would would have had to re-activate" < 1257024410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257024424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey! Just use Linux Genuine Advantage. < 1257024428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257024431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Linux Genuine < 1257024449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw. if you are going to do hardware detection it will slow you down < 1257024466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably do some cursory detection, but nothing much. < 1257024470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how he could do dependency-based asynchronous init with just an rc script
< 1257024482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll load all the start scripts at once < 1257024489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the depending scripts just check environment variables < 1257024491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need a service supervisor though < 1257024492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a loop < 1257024497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of *some* kind < 1257024511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using a script for that would be bloated I suspect < 1257024515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vague term; can you clarify just so we're on the same page? < 1257024560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, something to try to restart critical services if they go down (and give up after some fixed number of retries in a short time period) < 1257024579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like upstart does. Or sysvinit does < 1257024588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think BSD inits do that < 1257024598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even daemontools (I remember reading someone managed to use daemontools for init!) < 1257024601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it can't be very critical if you can run enough code to restart them < 1257024605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: daemontools is an init replacement... < 1257024608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(among other things) < 1257024616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, usually it isn't used as that though < 1257024622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be,t hough < 1257024623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, though < 1257024628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't the same thing < 1257024629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257024635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, here's my wonderful shutdown command: < 1257024638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# kill -QUIT 1 < 1257024655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it tells services to shut down cleanly then? < 1257024668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs /etc/rc.stop and then halts < 1257024686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and rc.stop sends SIGTERM and such to processes needing it? < 1257024695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about kexec? Oh wait I guess not < 1257024726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; runs all the shutdown-service things, kills every process other than the ones needed to do this, waits until they all respond, kill -9s the rest, and turns ogg < 1257024727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1257024732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbox requires gnome? < 1257024733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257024734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1257024737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropboxd does < 1257024739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257024740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1257024743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nautilus integration does, though < 1257024748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly at the moment it is the only client < 1257024749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257024752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the protocol is open though < 1257024752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't it just use fuse or such < 1257024760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the folder as-is < 1257024773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dropbox is like useless to me if I can't use it on my headless computers too < 1257024774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't use FUSE) it's synchronization < 1257024777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it needs to be on disk < 1257024781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1257024793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there goes the idea of *extra* storage space :P < 1257024805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just disable dropboxd and remove the directory after syncing :P < 1257024816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, process 1 will be the thing that does the actual halting < 1257024831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After /etc/rc.stop closes it'll have kill -9'd everything else so it'll just be process 1 and whatever the kernel's running chilling about < 1257024833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I believe that is already the case < 1257024838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1257024854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no kexec support I assume? < 1257024866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have it < 1257024892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what signal do you think I should use that instead of halting reboots? < 1257024907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm unsure whether shutting down should be QUIT or TERM < 1257024919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about suspend to ram/disk? < 1257024922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards quit because # kill 1 working without warning seems dangerous < 1257024930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257024938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably USR1 and USR2 < 1257024950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a shell script that does that called suspend_ram or something < 1257024955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: SIGQUIT is supposed to create core dumps < 1257024957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about SIGVTALRM? Or SIGRTMAX < 1257024957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(USR1 for RAM, USR2 for disk) < 1257024960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, does on most Unices < 1257024963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nonsense suggestions btw) < 1257024964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, wasn't aware < 1257024976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh idea for restart... SIGCONT < 1257024978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257024980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it with C-\ if a program isn't responding to C-c < 1257024986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the keyboard < 1257024990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "continue after reboot" < 1257024992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to interrupt a program to get a core dump < 1257024997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that'd be suspend to disk + reboot < 1257025007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however, normally SIGCONT is for the bg/fg commands < 1257025011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after you used Ctrl-Z < 1257025015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should let you do "fg 1" < 1257025016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257025019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press ^C to shut down < 1257025026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can intercept SIGCONT in fact < 1257025035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't work like that < 1257025038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257025042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant specialcase it < 1257025050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can handle SIGCONT < 1257025051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fg is a shell thingy and related to shell job control < 1257025054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can? < 1257025055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff happens after you're continued < 1257025059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257025059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right < 1257025063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, you have to be running in order to handle it < 1257025068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when does SIGSTOP happen? < 1257025072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can't you handle it? < 1257025074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight away < 1257025080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can handle SIGTSTP, though < 1257025085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is generated by C-z < 1257025092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# kill -9 1 will force a hard shutdown, I think. < 1257025099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any process killing or anything < 1257025100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure SIGSTOP is NOT Ctrl-Z? < 1257025109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ctrl-Z generates SIGTSTP < 1257025111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, when you're too lazy to hold down the power button < 1257025115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does the same as SIGSTOP by default < 1257025120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which /can/ be handled or interrupted < 1257025128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas SIGSTOP can't be) < 1257025135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, handled or masked < 1257025136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1257025147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SIGWINCH discard signal Window size change < 1257025153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is clearly for "change framebuffer console resolution" < 1257025159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... you only hold down power button when you can't do it the normal way :P < 1257025168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or if you're lazy. < 1257025180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it doesn't matter if a regular shutdown only takes, like, a second. < 1257025181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. But well that joke is rather twisted < 1257025200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and holding down power button takes like 10 seconds on my computer < 1257025201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume some bloated Ubuntu thingy that takes 30 seconds to shutdown :P < 1257025206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 SECONDS ARE PRECIOUS < 1257025215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWINCH is for console apps < 1257025221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking, man :| < 1257025221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get it if someone resizes the window they're running in < 1257025228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1257025231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have an argument to say the new size < 1257025234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a notification < 1257025235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't kill refuse to send signals to process 1? < 1257025247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257025252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1257025255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he just try? XD < 1257025287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This command meets appropriate standards. < 1257025295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, normally the man pages say /which/ standards < 1257025296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: who knows < 1257025319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah XD < 1257025334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill(2) man page: < 1257025336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the table in that man page is fucked up < 1257025336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTES < 1257025336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The only signals that can be sent to process ID 1, the init process, are those for which init has explicitly installed signal handlers. This is done to assure the system is not brought down accidentally. < 1257025353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: < 1257025357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257025359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ slock --help < 1257025359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: slock [-v] < 1257025361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257025362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1257025366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs synergy
< 1257025369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Name Num Action Description < 1257025369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : () () < 1257025369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 0 n/a exit code indicates if a signal may be sent < 1257025371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1257025374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257025377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1257025383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were multiple blank lines < 1257025384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in there < 1257025386 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257025388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that were stripped on paste < 1257025392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trilled killing init? < 1257025401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchd, to be precise < 1257025403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : doesn't kill refuse to send signals to process 1? < 1257025403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection) < 1257025404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257025412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOTES < 1257025412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The only signals that can be sent to process ID 1, the init process, are those for which init has explicitly installed signal handlers. This is done to assure the system is not brought down accidentally. < 1257025419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there it is explained ^ < 1257025420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it overlaid the shutdown spinner (circling circle thing) over my desktop which froze < 1257025424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a few seconds < 1257025425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then rebooted < 1257025426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1257025428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the launchd guys < 1257025431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had my same idea <3 < 1257025445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257025453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what signal did you kill init /with/? < 1257025461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo kill init < 1257025462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so TERM < 1257025464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257025465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo kill 1 < 1257025470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not init < 1257025471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's launchd < 1257025472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1257025482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: upstart isn't init either < 1257025486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := init, cron, inetd, etc etc etc < 1257025487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's called init in the process table < 1257025490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but upstart is distinct < 1257025493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and launchd is called launchd in the table < 1257025498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(upstart iis distinct from cron etc atm) < 1257025499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1257025522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh writing an init isn't hard < 1257025531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's set up and cushy < 1257025534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is distinct from cron so far, though: < 1257025536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will Upstart replace cron, atd or anacron? < 1257025536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. A planned feature for Upstart is the ability to generate events at a particular scheduled time, regular scheduled time or particular timed intervals." < 1257025543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said < 1257025548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not planning on adding inetd bits into it. < 1257025562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it says "Maybe" there. < 1257025585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they suggest that dbus is trying to replace init < 1257025588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1257025590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even uses cron without meaning anacron? < 1257025595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, me? < 1257025600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257025606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use cron on servers < 1257025609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anacron < 1257025610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do this thing at this time but if you can't GIVE UP COMPLETELY" < 1257025617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many operations that make sense there < 1257025659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway why does ubuntu start both cron and anacron < 1257025661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacron#Drawbacks okay that's pretty bad < 1257025664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see my link < 1257025670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like anacron is very limited < 1257025702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's the responsibility of the shutdown procedure to call sync(1) < 1257025709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or equivalent) < 1257025710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um I have tasks running every few hours < 1257025720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1257025723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vixie-cron < 1257025731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anacron is not an attempt to make cron redundant. It cannot be used to schedule commands at intervals smaller than days" < 1257025733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"anacron can only run tasks once a day (or less often such as weekly or monthly). In contrast, cron allows tasks to run as often as every minute (but does not guarantee their execution if the system goes down). In practice, this is not usually an issue, since it is rare to have a task that must be guaranteed to run more often than (at least) once a day" < 1257025737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S WHAT I LINKED TO < 1257025738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1257025745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why ubuntu starts cron as well < 1257025748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes exactly! < 1257025750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*starts cron < 1257025755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you repeat my link < 1257025757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was *agreeing* with you < 1257025764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdly < 1257025764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was commenting upon a specific line < 1257025780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Anacron can only run tasks once a day? < 1257025784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1257025794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time Anacron is run, it reads a configuration file that specifies the jobs Anacron controls, and their periods in days. If a job wasn't executed in the last n days, where n is the period of that job, Anacron executes it. Anacron then records the date in a special timestamp file that it keeps for each job, so it can know when to run it again. When all the executed commands terminate, Anacron exits. < 1257025811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it just logged when it ran a regular cron command, and then if there are missing log entries, ran them then and logged it < 1257025817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that design is stupid < 1257025822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1257025836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves vixie-cron
< 1257025877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crontabs suck though < 1257025880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vixie cron is nice in that it doesn't do anything particularly dumb. < 1257025890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, given the constraints of crontab format, that is. < 1257025919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Remember me from months ago? You've forgotten what I look like, don't I? BETTER GOOGLE FOR IT" < 1257025924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : crontabs suck though <-- how so? < 1257025935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no < 1257025939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a comment on top < 1257025940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1257025944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The specific file format is rather arcane and hard to remember. < 1257025949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# m h dom mon dow command < 1257025954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that at the top of the file < 1257025955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comment on top shouldn't be needed to remember the format. < 1257025957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is all you need < 1257025960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is true < 1257025964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is terse though < 1257025976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than some multi-line bind style config < 1257025980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /etc/passwd file suffers from the same issue, but that at least isn't something that non-programs need to mess with. < 1257025991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really get rid of crontab, but I can get rid of /etc/fstab < 1257026003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can? < 1257026007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1257026010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is wrong with fstab < 1257026013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By rewriting mount a bit, I presume. < 1257026013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is easy to remember < 1257026018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the same that's wrong with crontab < 1257026036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being glad that very few things interact *directly* with fstab. < 1257026039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :device mountpoint fs options dump pass < 1257026044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to remember < 1257026047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main use of fstab is just to mount things on boot, so guess what that'll become? < 1257026057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lines in a shell script in /etc/rc.d calling mount(1). < 1257026067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, less terse? < 1257026070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some thoughts for handling the "mount /dev/foo" case, but I have to mull on them. < 1257026075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About the same, really. < 1257026079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a few more characters. Doesn't matter. < 1257026081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Fuse, perhaps? < 1257026082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's significantly simpler. < 1257026095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How does FUSE help there? < 1257026106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can mount as a normal user with FUSE. < 1257026113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's not what I meant < 1257026114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you use fuse to create a virtual /media directory! < 1257026122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /mnt < 1257026123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with auto adding stuff according to an XML config < 1257026129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AAAAAGH. < 1257026129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant mount knowing where to mount devices < 1257026132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their FS type, etc < 1257026137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah I was joking < 1257026141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, that. Yeah. < 1257026158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, any support for FUSE I have will probably be via translation to 9P. < 1257026168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, gnome vfs seems like that to me < 1257026172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll reuse the FUSE library, and translate however it talks to the kernel module into 9P. < 1257026191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably already been done. If not, it should be easy to do. < 1257026204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FUSE library supports multiple kernels by now. < 1257026211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the kernel has good 9P support, because the only other options use FUSE. < 1257026223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I don't think llvm/clang supports a.out < 1257026226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1257026231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gcc itself probably doesn't < 1257026234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257026237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc did until a recent 4.x version < 1257026238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being compiled to a.out < 1257026240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very recent < 1257026243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257026243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LLVM should at least be easy to retarget. < 1257026244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257026247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure < 1257026250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being designed with that in mind and all.) < 1257026253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt compiling gcc into an a.out < 1257026264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure. Just sounds like something I heard someone mention once < 1257026272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some year or two ago < 1257026284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my Arch /etc/fstab is nicely simple < 1257026294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main line is just "/dev/sda1 / jfs defaults 0 1" < 1257026295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by uuid? < 1257026297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257026302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1257026308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah but what if other disks are plugged in! < 1257026318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then let's just hope they become /etc/sdb. < 1257026325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257026326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev < 1257026339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using udev, so hopefully I can find a quite stable devfs. < 1257026383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, devfs is no longer supported with recent kernels < 1257026387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is static of udev < 1257026391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or* < 1257026400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then maybe I'll use static. < 1257026517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When looking around the kernel config options I had a horrible dilemma. < 1257026537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heap randomisation < 1257026537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pros: More secure < 1257026537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons: Makes kernel bigger, BREAKS LIBC5 BINARIES < 1257026583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libc5? Meh, who needs it? < 1257026586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1257026599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, static binaries should work for decades! < 1257026621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a somewhat more serious note, I do have at least one libc5 binary. < 1257026642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, heap randomisation as a security feature made me think of OpenBSD almost instantly. < 1257026648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the kind of thing they'd do, isn't it... < 1257026656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Playstation 1 emulator I could get to work used Libc5. And was a binary. < 1257026660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it also breaks position dependent code, doesn't it :P < 1257026661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, they do that. < 1257026678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Instead of the first five fields, one of eight special strings may < 1257026679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : appear: < 1257026679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : string meaning < 1257026679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ------ ------- < 1257026680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @reboot Run once, at startup. < 1257026680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Vixie crontab < 1257026689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can do position-independent staticly linked binaries. ;p < 1257026702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAY UNPRIVILEGED USER! I'M TOTALLY INIT < 1257026705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use meeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1257027165 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257027213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does at(1) run the commands at the time you specify, or could it be some minutes late? < 1257027349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, at's been broken for months on ubuntu < 1257027406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how to do a good clock in dwm; xsetroot -name foo changes the top-right text < 1257027424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to update it on the 0th second of every minute (give or take some seconds) without using CPU < 1257027480 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# A still more glorious dawn awaits: not sunrise, but a galaxyrise. A morning filled with 400 billion suns; the rising of the Milky Way. # -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc < 1257027499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1257027502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked that like a month ago < 1257027505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : On a somewhat more serious note, I do have at least one libc5 binary. <-- what huh? < 1257027510 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe where I got it from < 1257027511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He explains a few lines down. < 1257027517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257027518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257027519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what libc4 is like. < 1257027525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do your style of log reading :P < 1257027531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned a lot from you < 1257027538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's remarkably rewarding! < 1257027543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like everyone has the exact same questions as you. < 1257027544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257027558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, it also breaks position dependent code, doesn't it :P <-- um no? < 1257027574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be data/code segment randomisation < 1257027575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right < 1257027577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than heap < 1257027580 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ... this evening; that video does not make me start crying < 1257027585 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/,/ < 1257027588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap is for malloc and such < 1257027597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot just how hardcore the http://mastodon.biz/ author is < 1257027605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm trying to decide whether to roll to one of the super-bloated newer Linux kernels or write my own USB stack plus SATA and UDMA drivers for 2.0.28" < 1257027610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be pretty badass to even consider thtat < 1257027614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1257027622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HAY UNPRIVILEGED USER! I'M TOTALLY INIT <-- the @reboot thing? Yes very useful. I use it to start some irc bots for example < 1257027639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just have ~/.rc.start or something < 1257027652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet another service to read that? < 1257027657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if fakeroot includes faking reboots, etc
< 1257027663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just have /etc/rc.start do it < 1257027666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Unix was designed and then crap got shoveled on. < 1257027675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and suing to each user? Hm < 1257027679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making an OS that works but doesn't know what consistency is. < 1257027685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet another code point that has to be audited for that < 1257027685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing cron should do to me < 1257027694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dude, I trust my init scripts more than cron < 1257027696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(better than the Windows solution of "Fuck design". :P) < 1257027701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it'd just be a few lines < 1257027703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cron already done this for ages < 1257027711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other user crontabs < 1257027713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, it's still something you "have to audit" < 1257027715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful ones < 1257027721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@reboot shouldn't be in cron, it's an init task < 1257027768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # A still more glorious dawn awaits: not sunrise, but a galaxyrise. A morning filled with 400 billion suns; the rising of the Milky Way. # -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc <-- argh now I have that tune on my head again < 1257027771 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I recall that Apple have a program that unifies the run-at-boot things and cron < 1257027776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, launchd < 1257027780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too XML < 1257027781 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing, yeah < 1257027784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it inexplicably does inetd < 1257027791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about plist? < 1257027798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plists are XML nowadays, unfortunately. < 1257027804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the binary format. < 1257027806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? they changed format? < 1257027809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ages ago. < 1257027810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Years. < 1257027816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be a wonderful JSON-type dealie. < 1257027820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257027857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure they were binary blobs yeah < 1257027868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1257027868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones I seen that is < 1257027874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of the new formats < 1257027877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257027878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used to be almost identical to JSON < 1257027880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was lovely. < 1257027882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since tiger? < 1257027887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Panther. < 1257027890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257027891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah, the days of a sane format for plist. < 1257027903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, tiger is the only OS X version I used < 1257027906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When men were men, women were men and plists weren't XML. < 1257027910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about XML is that everywhere has libraries that do all the parsing for you. < 1257027919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It is very dark. < 1257027921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are in #esoteric. < 1257027925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are about to defend XML. < 1257027928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are likely to be eaten by a grue. < 1257027929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1257027930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, are you trying to defend... XML? < 1257027939 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying it can be practical < 1257027943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>defend xml < 1257027947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are eaten by a Grue. < 1257027952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1257027958 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, almost everywhere has JSON parsers too < 1257027962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: The thing about XML is that it has no advantages over JSON and many disadvantages. < 1257027964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>backtrack slightly < 1257027965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, too late now < 1257027970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Grue fails to reverse entropy and you stay eatetn. < 1257027973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eaten < 1257027974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1257027975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for generic object serialisation, that is) < 1257027985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And XML is not designed at *all* for what it's generally used for. < 1257027993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about html? < 1257027994 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to recalls what teh JSON equivalent of xpath is
< 1257027995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to just do markup. < 1257027998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches ehird's reaction
< 1257028002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: aiee < 1257028003 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: damn right < 1257028008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aiee? < 1257028012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's pretty bad at markup too < 1257028018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HTML for object serialisation? < 1257028020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a nutter < 1257028027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh hah I didn't even think about that < 1257028028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But it at least does the job without making me want to go and kill everyone. < 1257028029 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it people confuse an explanation with a justification? < 1257028032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in general < 1257028032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257028051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are the nutter who even thought I could have meant that < 1257028051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: AVOIDING MIND INFECTION < 1257028059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good to be a nutter! < 1257028076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, a good rule of thumb: < 1257028078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, what is xpath good for? < 1257028086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the work I do < 1257028095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what I meant < 1257028107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what does it do, that is useful and harder with other ways < 1257028121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program is to serve the user. Everything they make with it is theirs, not yours. Therefore, all your formats must either be well-known (if you must be compatible with other tools without translating) or minimalist and plain text (or binary if you really must). < 1257028122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpath This seems like a solution in search of a problem. < 1257028147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml < 1257028148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :query < 1257028151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like XML just takes the user's work away from them; it wraps their format in something they don't care about or want, and forces them to trawl through it to get their data out. In effect, the barrier to EXIT is high. < 1257028153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language‽ < 1257028164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, don't use XML. < 1257028165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay XML as a relational db! < 1257028171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not that, it's for traversing the tree. < 1257028177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah *phew* < 1257028178 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, let's see... < 1257028179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of it like CSS selectors < 1257028181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with worse syntacx < 1257028184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1257028189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more powerful < 1257028195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not all that bad < 1257028196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no simple code samples there on wikipedia < 1257028200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were they thinking of :( < 1257028201 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is internal data, which isn't for users, and there is external data, which the users requested be XML < 1257028214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3schools.com/XPath/xpath_syntax.asp < 1257028220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3schools is evil < 1257028222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those examples are good < 1257028229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257028232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: By user, I mean people < 1257028240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah because it is used as a db there? < 1257028253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bookstore/book[price>35.00] Selects all the book elements of the bookstore element that have a price element with a value greater than 35.00 < 1257028255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1257028256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1257028258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want as in want as humans, not as in want for compatibility, or because of corporate bear-ocracy < 1257028259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xpath is good for processing heirarchical data (the details of XML don't leak in much) the same way regexes are good for processing text < 1257028260 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257028276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SELECT * from bootstore.book WHERE price > 35.00 ? < 1257028281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something similar to that at least < 1257028281 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML has stylesheets < 1257028288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You could make filesystem paths into SQL too < 1257028290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't prove anythiing < 1257028294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my SQL is getting rusty < 1257028318 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, that is about it < 1257028327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, awesome is indeed a fork of dwm < 1257028331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bookstore/book[price>35.00]/title <-- SELECT title FROM bootstore.book where price > 35.00 ? < 1257028338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with added lua < 1257028341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ironic < 1257028345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xcb < 1257028347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And emwh < 1257028349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xft < 1257028350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And D-Bus < 1257028350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about CSS :D < 1257028353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its own multihead < 1257028362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xft is nice. I mean, non-bitmapped fonts < 1257028364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically they took dwm and fucked with it until it was bloated < 1257028372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, emwh I have no clue what it is < 1257028381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For the list of workspaces (numbers), the []= diagarm of the current layout, the title bar, and status bar? < 1257028383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xft is overkill. < 1257028384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xcb is well, something we probably can't avoid even if we want < 1257028387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a few vetical pixels at the top. < 1257028393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*diagram < 1257028397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like an ASCII icon tbh < 1257028403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(title bar is global at top of screen) < 1257028403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1257028414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, opinion on xfce? < 1257028415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xcb is quite avoidable, use the xlib wrapper over it :-P < 1257028422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-tiling indeed) < 1257028429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "bloat" in the multihead sense; though admittedly dwm page says "NEW dwm creates a view for each Xinerama screen". < 1257028431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: XFCE seems to try and be Gnome without... well, Gnome. < 1257028436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Xfce < 1257028443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a copy of this game on a VHS tape? < 1257028444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xlib is quite eww unless I misremember. But xcb might be worse. < 1257028453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: xcb is lower-level but slightly more sane < 1257028454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xcb does seem like an improvement over Xlib for what X is commonly used for these days (hardly even touched by anyone other than toolkit authors). < 1257028455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, context? < 1257028458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but xlib code is easier to understand < 1257028471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think it (Xfce) works; for instance, I quickly get agitated by the lack of configurators for the system < 1257028471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the game, Super ASCII MZX Town Part II < 1257028478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harder to use, but less crazy bizarre bugs. < 1257028483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in the game asks for that copy < 1257028485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's inconsistent to have a GUI to configure the GUI but nothing else, UI-wise < 1257028489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(understandable implementation-wise) < 1257028490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257028508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems to basically come down to GNOME with more settings, whereas GNOME's philosophy leads to less settings < 1257028511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the end result is quite odd < 1257028516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone using Debain unstable at the moment? < 1257028518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats KDE, though < 1257028520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I don't think it (Xfce) works; for instance, I quickly get agitated by the lack of configurators for the system <-- and you are minimalist! < 1257028532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Confusion is not minimalist. < 1257028534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: XFCE is also more lightweight while having more settings. < 1257028537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite odd. < 1257028548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or maybe I'll like it < 1257028548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257028551 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause they have a hosed keyboard config app and the upstream fix hasn't come down yet, and I can't downgrade < 1257028551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason to have GUI configuration and system configuration separate; they're facets of the same thing. < 1257028562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth trying as replacement for KDE 3.5.10 on my gentoo box < 1257028563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, dwm uber alles :P < 1257028585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried tiling and decided I didn't like it. Probably could get used to it < 1257028589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of work < 1257028593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most tiling managers suck balls < 1257028595 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not a very unixy attitude < 1257028595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which did you try? < 1257028603 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1257028606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It is, but I cba to explain < 1257028611 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what you actually mean < 1257028613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm awsome, xmonad and dwm iirc < 1257028623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some time ago < 1257028626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year or so? < 1257028632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slightly less than a year < 1257028633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm is the only good one of those, because its layout is the right thing < 1257028641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a main window, to the left < 1257028645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc I found dwm most annoying of them < 1257028647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a stack of secondary windows to the right < 1257028655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The adjustment period is just a few minutes, just stop trying to fight the WM < 1257028656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's awesome's default layout too. < 1257028660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So? < 1257028665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome sucks in other ways < 1257028673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the most irritating thing about xmonad was it's freaking crazy configuration scheme. < 1257028676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yeah I tried ratpoison too. < 1257028679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was like "lol" < 1257028683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after that was its retarded default bindings. < 1257028685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ratpoison is unusable < 1257028692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my conclusion too < 1257028692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tiling but it doesn't manage the windows for you! < 1257028697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that conflict with *everything else*) < 1257028697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just a pointless waste of time < 1257028707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One unique one to try might be wmii < 1257028716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically Plan 9's acme for window managers < 1257028737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the little knob on the window you can drag to move across columns, resize, etc; you can stack windows so it's just title bars that collapse, it's also controllable by the keyboard < 1257028743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. interesting. Me and acme never agreed with each other though < 1257028744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257028753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not acme as far as mouse-only goes < 1257028755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mouse gestures < 1257028757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as far as layout goes < 1257028760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257028762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1257028765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wmii.suckless.org/ < 1257028769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a try < 1257028770 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul[AFK] < 1257028772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses dmenu like dwm < 1257028781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spawning applications, etc is nice < 1257028784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try indeed < 1257028800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I like a desktop filled with icons though < 1257028803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't deny that < 1257028819 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, people have visible desktop past all their windows? < 1257028821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to stop liking gratuitous eye-candy < 1257028822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like C99.pdf POSIX.1-2008.pdf < 1257028824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1257028833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, atm I can see a bit of that < 1257028834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can still use a graphical file manager < 1257028850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't use a file manager *except* for desktop < 1257028860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm strange probably < 1257028861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... File manager? < 1257028867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never use my desktop < 1257028867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what a shell's for? < 1257028878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Source Mage spell for the 20070516 wmii snapshot is available. As usual, just type < 1257028878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast wmii < 1257028878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a term to install it." < 1257028879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a hybrid shell/file manager < 1257028880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1257028882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had forgot < 1257028888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's retarded terminology < 1257028892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a graphical file viewer above it, I can double click folders to cd < 1257028898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keyboard always enters commands < 1257028905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can stop doing ls all the time < 1257028907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try sourcemage. Just for fun in a vm < 1257028911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is really quite lol < 1257028914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nooo thank-you < 1257028926 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how about keyboard to search the file list < 1257028927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1257028939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: maybe tab completion will be done with the graphical list < 1257028961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of below the command entry < 1257028967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is like LFS in a way. A great experience, but not something you would want to use every day. Quite like going to some far away country as a tourist I expect < 1257028969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the terminology is enough to put me off < 1257028971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's source-based < 1257028982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't want to live in Egypt. But seeing the pyramids once. Fun < 1257028988 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the feature I would like in bash is the ability to type half a command, do something else, and come back, like you can in irssi < 1257028997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I have been there. Only extrapolating from going to other countries) < 1257029005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I usually hit enter and ctrl-c in quick succession for that < 1257029013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes in the history < 1257029018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively < 1257029024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is why I said VM :P < 1257029031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-a ;# ctrl-a command enter < 1257029048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the latter one < 1257029057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enter and ctrl-c is just too risky < 1257029058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why did people stop using bluecurve < 1257029060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nice theme < 1257029061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for many things < 1257029063 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah < 1257029070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be concentrating when doing risky things. < 1257029071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bluecurve is a theme for what? < 1257029081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metacity, gnome, kde, ........... < 1257029084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, basically < 1257029086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think old redhat theme < 1257029096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ensode.net/images/tiger_bluecurve.png < 1257029097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not risky. But "quite annoying to have to fix it" < 1257029102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore the window contents < 1257029106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's java swing crap < 1257029107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ./configure long line here < 1257029123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sqladmin.sourceforge.net/images/bluecurve.png < 1257029132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :older version of iwndow title, butt window contents is the same < 1257029134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1257029140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257029147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostalgia < 1257029149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257029161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I forgot when that was < 1257029170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redhat 5? < 1257029176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up until like 2005 i think < 1257029188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure redhat 5 didn't have it. But could be wrong < 1257029200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least. it wasn't default there < 1257029215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fedora Core 4 dropped bluecurve window border, 5 dropped theme < 1257029222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So add a few years onto that and that's when redhat dropped it :P < 1257029236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 was released june 05 < 1257029239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 march 06 < 1257029251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know... I'm pretty sure a regular install of my distro will have no GNU software at all < 1257029252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1257029282 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what shell do you use? < 1257029284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are going to write an a.out backend for llvm then? < 1257029289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, rc < 1257029293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: good point, I'm not sure which to use < 1257029299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure I'll use rc for command interpreter < 1257029302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lacking in several areas < 1257029309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. zsh is way to bloated for you < 1257029311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for scripts around the system, though, definitely < 1257029314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1257029317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh is as bloated as bash < 1257029323 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ash? < 1257029323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ... You mean bash doesn't have a kill buffer? < 1257029324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, zsh is more bloated < 1257029324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe pksh < 1257029325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's called < 1257029333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like, it has mmap module and what not < 1257029336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the korn shell derivative < 1257029339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it does < 1257029344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pdksh? < 1257029348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257029366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its weak points are that there are still a few differences from ksh88 (the major one is that `echo hi | read x' does not set x in the current shell - the read is done in a separate process). < 1257029368 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as easy as hitting down in irssi though < 1257029368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's crap < 1257029377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really, use rc for scripts like that < 1257029391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has a kill buffer?! < 1257029397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if pdksh has decent globbing, filename completion, and good variable expansion kind of things... < 1257029399 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a concatenative shell? RPN and all that < 1257029401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i might consider it < 1257029404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. I never messed much with readline stuff < 1257029409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc is definitely the thing for scripts though! < 1257029432 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bash man page explains all the keys you can hit < 1257029434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Readline implements most of the Emacs bindings. < 1257029436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about plain ksh? < 1257029443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksh is not free. < 1257029445 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh? < 1257029447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah true < 1257029452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are about to say "csh". < 1257029454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay tcsh < 1257029455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may: cower in fear < 1257029456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1257029460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vomits at csh
< 1257029462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you didn't mean that did you < 1257029466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not just say yay tcsh < 1257029468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were sarcastic < 1257029476 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was naming random shells < 1257029483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you didn't mean that did you <-- no < 1257029489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1257029497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you did not just say yay tcsh <-- yes I did, but in a sarcastic way < 1257029501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :P < 1257029511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posh? < 1257029523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about that original shell < 1257029525 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait that's not publically available < 1257029526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember
< 1257029530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwin.com/packages/posh/posh-0.6-1 < 1257029531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use tcsh; I think I switched to bash mostly out of laziness; too lazy to deviate from the norm. < 1257029532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is :P < 1257029533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, what is posh? < 1257029544 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not that posh < 1257029549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it then? < 1257029552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling tcsh is/was the default shell at some of the university systems. < 1257029566 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh yes < 1257029571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, well? < 1257029578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not publically available" < 1257029579 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: um, a shell. Don't want to say much more < 1257029581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably can't say < 1257029594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, something used at work? You have your own? < 1257029594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:52:55] htkallas@kosh ~> ^D < 1257029594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "exit" to leave tcsh. < 1257029594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, seems to be there. < 1257029595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257029597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC -(soul)-> The Man < 1257029604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC <-($$$)- The Man < 1257029611 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I just made it up to sound more mysterious < 1257029613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man? < 1257029616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure < 1257029627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a compatible alternative to ncurses; not that I really care, since it's only barely a GNU project and MIT-licensed < 1257029636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be fun to have a viable linux distro with no gnu software by default < 1257029642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOM NOM NOM SOUL < 1257029653 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OFFS people < 1257029655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the man? < 1257029659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, "offs"? < 1257029667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimal Fracturing File System. < 1257029671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles "the man"
< 1257029673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pdcurses only does X11 on Linux IIRC, but maybe that's changeable. < 1257029675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It intentionally introduces beneficial fragmentation. < 1257029680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Weird < 1257029692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, ncurses apps are sufficiently fucked-up that maybe making them use X11 is good :P < 1257029701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no! < 1257029739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command line is for command UIs, ncurses programs are point-and-click WIMP UIs < 1257029745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, tap-and-click < 1257029750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly not command-line, anyway < 1257029756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in X they support mouse < 1257029765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches ehirds reaction
< 1257029766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They support mouse with xterm too < 1257029767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257029772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that is what I meant < 1257029774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badl < 1257029776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly < 1257029779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn you knew < 1257029783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1257029783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**Badly < 1257029787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correcting corrections FTW < 1257029794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pdcurses+X actually works pretty well w/ mouse :P < 1257029805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdcurses seems pretty cool then < 1257029813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll consider it < 1257029822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it come with an example program? arch might have a package < 1257029825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I always keep reading "ftw" as "fuck the what" < 1257029827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it supports SDL too, and SDL supports FB consoles, so if you don't want X you could be sneaky that way :P < 1257029827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257029839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDCurses is a public domain curses library for DOS, OS/2, Win32, X11 and SDL, implementing most of the functions available in X/Open and System V R4 curses. It supports many compilers for these platforms. The X11 port lets you recompile existing text-mode curses programs to produce native X11 applications. < 1257029845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I want X :P < 1257029849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I thought it meant that for years < 1257029851 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the what now < 1257029856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, problem solved. < 1257029872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh lament, lament is speaking. < 1257029873 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, curses library that has a native X11 backend :> < 1257029874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides
< 1257029879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep < 1257029882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we're discussing < 1257029914 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you were discussing the feasability of making a fully non-gnu linux distribution < 1257029921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, that too; mine is almost there < 1257029931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where can I get the ISO? < 1257029932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from ncurses and, uh, that's about it < 1257029936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without intending to do it) < 1257029937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nowhere yet. < 1257029943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've almost completely designed it < 1257029945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257029947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that. < 1257029951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl. < 1257029962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don < 1257029974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* think you will ever implement it < 1257029984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I will, considering I'm switching to it < 1257030004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see no-GNU/Linux. < 1257030004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to stay on OS X, but I cannot bring myself to use any of the current distros except maybe Arch < 1257030006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1257030013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh. ditching OS X? < 1257030030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaah. vs the current crop of distros it's compelling enough to stay. < 1257030041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not mastodon? < 1257030044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But having everything work without fiddling is just boring. < 1257030051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it can't even do USB afaik? < 1257030052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But having everything work without fiddling is just boring. < 1257030054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1257030055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257030060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are YOU saying that? < 1257030062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the nerd in me. < 1257030070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a distro is a nice way to solve that. < 1257030079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is not ehird. Please bring him back. What have you done to him. < 1257030080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinkering goes in the area where you have to tinker anyway (maintanence). < 1257030086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I killed him. < 1257030088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a nice way to get rid of that pesky sanity. < 1257030088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY < 1257030095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it might be a good idea to do LFS first to learn some internals. < 1257030096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, I have sanity? < 1257030098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?! < 1257030099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't already < 1257030114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, back to pdcurses. no more will we have to write our terminals based on obscure corners of vt100, crippling our text editing capabilities for those vagrant applications! In X we can manage the real windows again, instead of our morass of terminals! LIBERATE THE UNKNOWLEDGABLE PROGRAMS! VIVA LA REVOLUCION! < 1257030123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. < 1257030127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when (not if) X11 breaks... < 1257030131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm dumped to a console... < 1257030133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ vi foo < 1257030136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't connect to display < 1257030137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nano foo < 1257030139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't connect to display < 1257030141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ed foo < 1257030142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257030151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY NCURSES IT IS < 1257030152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot emacs in that list < 1257030154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOVING ON! < 1257030160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No GNU stuff, remember? :P < 1257030161 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257030162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also bash links to ncurses < 1257030165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nvm < 1257030168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't use it < 1257030168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1257030170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 bash < 1257030179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He never said GNU Emacs. :P < 1257030195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNUmacs? FUCK THAT SHIT! GOSLING EMACS!" < 1257030196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or rather, readline links to ncurses. and that causes bash to also < 1257030204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GOS! LING! EMACS! < 1257030206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, µemacs is nice < 1257030211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that Emacs-alike that Linus uses. < 1257030217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What AnMaster said. < 1257030224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is "gosling emacs"? < 1257030228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks in package repos
< 1257030230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosling Emacs circa 1981/ < 1257030233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257030233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1257030236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First Unix Emacs. < 1257030240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First Lisp-like extension language. < 1257030253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did it run on before < 1257030254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some code used in initial GNU Emacs. < 1257030254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot
< 1257030256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TECO. < 1257030262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ITS and stuff. < 1257030268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... I know but what did TECO run on I meant < 1257030269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257030271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS < 1257030271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, everyone who says rms invented Emacs? < 1257030273 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the Java Gosling? < 1257030273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257030279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has never heard of Gosling Emacs. < 1257030281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yep < 1257030282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its extension language, Mocklisp, has a syntax that appears similar to Lisp, but Mocklisp has no lists or other structured datatypes." Heh, Lisp with no lists sounds like a winner. < 1257030290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Bill Joy, another java guy, made vi... < 1257030293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh < 1257030296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S why Java sucks < 1257030297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I could've sworn rms wrote TECO Emacs. < 1257030304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vi inventor and the Gosling Emacs inventor < 1257030306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the same team < 1257030307 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where Eclipse came from then
< 1257030310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't I think of this before?! < 1257030313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he did < 1257030317 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1257030319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the point is that gosling emacs pioneered what we know as emacs < 1257030320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Guy Steele. < 1257030324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it did. < 1257030330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TECO emacs wasn't anything like that at all < 1257030338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rms saw Gosling Emacs and felt that it had a lot of good ideas. < 1257030341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just assume nobody got my reference, incidentally < 1257030341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, GNU Emacs. < 1257030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what reference? < 1257030365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNUmacs? FUCK THAT SHIT! GOS! LING! EMACS!" < 1257030376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well gosling emacs < 1257030378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that < 1257030417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that :P < 1257030560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what < 1257030569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snhiofL2Rh4 < 1257030651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what < 1257030654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it sitll < 1257030656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still* < 1257030665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess who else didn't get references? Hitler! < 1257030685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257030689 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1257030694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :godwin < 1257030716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess who else invoked Godwin's law just by existing? < 1257030735 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin? < 1257030765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. Is this some law about mentioning godwin's law? < 1257030765 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls blog posts comparing Hitler to BO.
< 1257030778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, Bo? < 1257030782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/ < 1257030791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barack Obama is literally Hitler. < 1257030831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://16.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kqebfvzCxB1qzniowo1_500.jpg < 1257030935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/ <-- is that conservative or is it joking with conservative < 1257030938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't figure out
< 1257030954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person totally believes that Barack Obama is literally the same person as Hitler. Yep. < 1257030957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1257030967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also believes that that comic is actual proof of it. < 1257030971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods solemnly
< 1257030976 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION liked the Onion video about how Obama plans to deal with a raging wildfire
< 1257030980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a nutcase then? Or you being sarcastic :P < 1257030985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I didn't say that < 1257030989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm absolutely not sarcastic, how can you even suggest that < 1257031013 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am way left by american standards, yet I found that vidoe funny. Odd. < 1257031035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Pretty sure the Onion staff is too. < 1257031051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irrelevant. < 1257031086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who can't laugh at themselves is an idiot, so anyone who can't laugh at someone else, no matter who they are, is too. < 1257031116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't hear what they said clearly in that video. < 1257031126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about a bird? < 1257031126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1257031134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snhiofL2Rh4 < 1257031172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What kind of beer do you like?" "(muffled)" "HEINEKEN? Fuck that shit! PABST! BLUE! RIBBON!" < 1257031236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. *bear* < 1257031246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err XD < 1257031247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of bear do you like? < 1257031248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer* < 1257031449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish writing an init had some kind of hidden complexity instead of just being sundry C code. < 1257031482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/kernel calls /bin/init calls /bin/login, la la la < 1257031503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what login(1) usually is. Doesn't look like GNU from the manpage. < 1257031577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, a cool thing about dwm and wmii: < 1257031582 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an attempt to create a linux distro that is not "GNU/LINUX"? < 1257031583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The different desktops are actually tags < 1257031586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A window can be on more than one tag < 1257031591 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1257031599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: No, it's an attempt at creating a minimalist distro focused on simplicity and usability < 1257031602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To a radical degree < 1257031614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static binaries only, a.out, no kernel modules, non-glibc libc... < 1257031619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess what. They can in kde3 too < 1257031623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about kde4 < 1257031630 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't the binaries be quite ... big? < 1257031636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, but is it easy to apply them? In dwm it's just Mod+Shift+number. < 1257031655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Nope. Most of the binary size when using static binaries is caused by the huge glibc. < 1257031657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose busybox will cover a lot of stuff < 1257031664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: And static binaries only include the parts they use. < 1257031668 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got a huge libc, if you know what i mean < 1257031669 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, point < 1257031673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you want "all desktops" or "one desktop" yes. if you want "some desktops" it is incredibly complex < 1257031681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1257031702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Plus, it's faster to execute statically linked binaries, and they're completely immune to ABI changes. Besides... look at the dependencies of some package in your distro. < 1257031708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See all those lib* dependencies? < 1257031716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: No, but it's not like it's *hard* to create a non-GNU Linux distro. < 1257031717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the whole, a program using a lot of libraries may actually end up smaller. < 1257031727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A busybox/uclibc based system would just about do it. < 1257031743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot one: init system just based on simple rc shell scripts < 1257031779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, non-GNU isn't specifically a goal, but it turns out that GNU software is basically the opposite of simplicity, minimalism, usability and Unix. < 1257031789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1257031801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I end up simply not wanting to add much GNU software at all < 1257031919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'll be using busybox < 1257031938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like smallness, but I don't like how everything is in one binary, and the tools often seem overly barebones just to eke out the last bytes. < 1257031957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox is most useful if you want a really absurdly barebones base install. < 1257031988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, say, /bin/kernel, /bin/init, /bin/rc, /bin/busybox...) < 1257032014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally do a hack so that you can execute /bin/kernel from inside it :P < 1257032025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that /bin/rc the startup binary? < 1257032027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to a script < 1257032028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257032034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The rc shell. < 1257032041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox has a shell :P < 1257032057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. I only put that in because you wanted init to be in rc. :P < 1257032093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not /bin/init, but that'll be tiny. < 1257032105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most everything will be handled by /etc/rc.{stop,start}. < 1257032109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /bin/init will call < 1257032121 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to make init a shell script? < 1257032125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No inittab or run levels or anything < 1257032129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I'm not sure < 1257032134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds a lot like Gentoo's init setup (except that it uses a bog-standard sysvinit)... < 1257032137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I think so; the kernel just uses a regular exec, I believe < 1257032155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, sysvinit is a lot more complicated than just handling signals and calling shell scripts. < 1257032157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Yes. < 1257032182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: All the inittab does in Gentoo is start /sbin/rc for the runlevels. < 1257032185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init will be a binary because you need to be able to kill it to shut down and the like < 1257032190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to make sure it won't die < 1257032201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be like 1 KiB though < 1257032211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which are "shutdown", "single", "nonetwork", "default", and "reboot") < 1257032217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, you could make /etc/rc.{start,stop} in Python or whateverr < 1257032220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whatever < 1257032223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just change the shebang < 1257032225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Haskell :P < 1257032302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, busybox gets me a lot of tools that work with Linux like mount < 1257032309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, say, porting a BSD's tools would be more work < 1257032312 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe befunge? < 1257032320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwh < 1257032321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1257032340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No runlevels in my system! >:) < 1257032342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck lacks the power to spawn new processes alas < 1257032363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an X login manager make /bin/login a shell script that starts x or whatever < 1257032369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, more like Busybox init. < 1257032379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise just run startx after logging in, or even condition on < 1257032383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"are we in a console?" < 1257032387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your .profile < 1257032390 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1257032390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc that breaks consoles :P < 1257032392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though that does handle an inittab. Just no runlevels.) < 1257032410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a /bin/login shell script that starts x and then runs the old /bin/login, of course < 1257032427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably have a ready-made file to do that < 1257032431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just do < 1257032433 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't init just be a shell script that calls a list of stuff to start in sequence? < 1257032439 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to maintain, very simple < 1257032444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that's what it is! < 1257032446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my system < 1257032458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that init has to run constantly, and my shutdown procedure involves sending signals to init < 1257032459 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can disable things just by commenting out lines? < 1257032462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1257032466 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool] < 1257032490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my /bin/init will basically set up any infrastructure needed, run /bin/rc.start, and then sit there waiting for the right signals (shutdown, restart, suspend to RAM, etc) < 1257032500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it'll act appropriately; for shutdowns and reboots, it'll run /bin/rc.stop first < 1257032502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before halting or rebooting < 1257032509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm not /bin < 1257032512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/rc.{start,stop{ < 1257032513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*} < 1257032537 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you add a new thing to run in startup, you can just re-create init, e.g. using "tsort" < 1257032544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to recreate init < 1257032546 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way /etc/rc.* are not needed < 1257032555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but why? < 1257032579 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to try out something no other distro does? < 1257032593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it'd just make changing the init stuff fussy for no benefit. < 1257032599 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a simpler way to get startup dependancies? < 1257032605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no distro has an init system as simple as mine, without any inittab or anything < 1257032607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Eh? < 1257032611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just proposing embedding the script, right? < 1257032628 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"embedding"? < 1257032638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have not even adequately explained your proposal... < 1257032642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't understand. < 1257032653 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really thought about it... < 1257032670 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, there is a list of things that must be run at startup? < 1257032672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsort is a good idea, though < 1257032675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: and shutdown < 1257032677 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this list changes occasionally? < 1257032681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1257032690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the scripts may have logic < 1257032696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since starting stuff can be non-trivial < 1257032703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1257032704 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of logic? < 1257032714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (file exists /dev/foo) < 1257032796 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But init need not re-determine what order to run things in every time the system starts. It might be nicer to "compile" the list of things to call in the right order with the maximum parallelism into a new /bin/init every time the list of things present changes < 1257032806 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that might just turn into a nightmare < 1257032811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1257032828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the dependency parallelism thing is a good idea and a good justification for it < 1257032834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a shell script is a lot simpler < 1257032843 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be a shell script < 1257032847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my distro is minimalist enough that boot to X will take, what, 2 seconds? < 1257032859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it seems like a lot of complexity for a slightly faster boot is a waste. < 1257032872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as this way is much easier to maintain; just slot it in the right place. < 1257032908 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, init would need to be recreated every time you added or removed a demon, which might be tricky < 1257032918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not tricky, just a pain. < 1257033078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Incidentally, know any kernel patches for good suspend/hibernate/resume support? < 1257033090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinuxOnIce looked promising but its suspend-to-disk mode is unbelievably slow from the looks of it < 1257033096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TuxOnIce < 1257033100 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1257033154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, you don't need to edit /bin/login to get an X login manager, duh < 1257033159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just edit /etc/rc.start and change < 1257033160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :login < 1257033161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1257033165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startx & < 1257033165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :login < 1257033171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257033181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startx & < 1257033182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdm & < 1257033183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :login < 1257033184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1257033186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the idea < 1257033360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATH=~/bin:/local/bin:/bin will be pretty cool to have. < 1257033380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think it should just be PATH=/bin by default. < 1257033511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using those overlaid dirs, PLan9-style? < 1257033523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, although I might consider having something like that. < 1257033551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that I know I'll have no /usr (pointless directory), /local will be uncommon due to there being, you know, packages, and ~/bin isn't that common either (besides, it's easy to add them) < 1257033560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All distro binaries and packages you make's binaries go into /bin