< 1254355202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens < 1254355207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the actual ripping apart only takes a fraction of a second iirc < 1254355213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1254355219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just like, gradually lose all sight of the outside world and freeze in time < 1254355231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do you just die when time becomes infinitely slow, or does it just slow down (you don't notice of course) < 1254355238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you live and die eventually of starvation/thirst etc < 1254355241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming this magic pod < 1254355244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you die way before time slows down significantly < 1254355249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to everyone else you just move into it slower and slower < 1254355256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, yeah < 1254355256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1254355261 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1254355262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume we're superhuman and live for thousands of years < 1254355266 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254355276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time slows down from the outside observer's perspective < 1254355288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so my pod goes slower and slower < 1254355290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you, the time in the universe outside the hole correspondingly speeds up < 1254355298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so very soon after, the universe ends < 1254355301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254355317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but you never lose sight of the outside world? < 1254355333 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not < 1254355337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming very large black hole, the radius where gravitational tidal forces become too large is inside the black hole. < 1254355358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally light from the outside will keep coming in... < 1254355366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1254355397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to one theory, you fall into the hole, everything flashes white as the whole remaining time of the outside universe "flashes before your eyes", and you get exploded outward in a white hole in a new universe < 1254355403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i wave (really quickly so it's normal for the outside; I'm magic), no matter how far in I am, the outside can still see me? < 1254355420 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the light can't get out < 1254355425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is all assuming the inside actually exists, and is just not a mathematical abstraction that physically really stops at the horizon (outer boundary) < 1254355425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1254355434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not just < 1254355445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would certainly be a bit strange if "reality stopped" there, no? < 1254355447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254355449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's a christian? < 1254355454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz pray to god for one of dem pods < 1254355458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do some experimental physics < 1254355549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows Christians < 1254355554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: sure but it might be where the holographic theory actually hits reality... the surface of the black hole being where you actually hit on the universe being 2-dimensional in a quantum sense. but now i am blathering. < 1254355566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds trippy < 1254355572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take some drugs in the pod. < 1254355582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I can experience quantum fabric. < 1254355595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle < 1254355603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can i just say that quantum foam is one of my favourite names for anything ever) < 1254355619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as i understand there's a whole bunch of theories for what happens inside < 1254355629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "string theory" sidebar spotted < 1254355632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quackery assumed < 1254355648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gravititational fields in/near black hole are so extreme, that even GR breaks down at some point. But what is not known where it breaks down. Outside the event horzion, at event horizon or somewhere very near the central singularity. < 1254355685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: with the "everything goes quickly and universe ends" thing, I assume the universe ends before you actually hit the singularity? < 1254355711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1254355719 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it depends on whether the universe is finite :) < 1254355749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254355770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1254355776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone else came in a pod at the exact same time? < 1254355784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you see them? could they see you? are your times the same? < 1254355875 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your shoe sizes the same? < 1254355882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254355889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: by the equations of general relativity, once you pass the horizon there is a finite time from your perspective until you hit the inner singularity < 1254355916 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but would the universe end before that? < 1254355931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if those finite times overlap for the two pods, i would assume they could interact if the inner space actually exists < 1254355936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever noticed how arbitrary physics is :P < 1254355948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: before you hit < 1254355951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the universe ends you cannot hit < 1254355952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. never hit < 1254355954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be before < 1254356018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you do realize that the relativity of simultaneity inside a black hole is so great that it might not make sense to speak of whether the outer universe has ended or not? < 1254356024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254356068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1254356085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but wouldn't the hole have evaporated by then??? < 1254356103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its horizon would ... but would the inside? < 1254356110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1254356115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w h o a. < 1254356123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, if it's subjective whether the universe is ended < 1254356125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need a huge pod < 1254356133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff everyone (now immortal) in it < 1254356135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go into a black hole < 1254356137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1254356142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely long-lasting universe < 1254356262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there must be some scifi based on that idea < 1254356307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a branch of physics just dedicated to finding out all the awesome shit you could do if the pod existed. < 1254357058 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254357952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anyone with Enigma? < 1254357960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.92-3#16 Almost There < 1254357967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: third block on the right side < 1254357969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoooooooooly shit < 1254357973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's 6x6 screens big < 1254359274 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-193.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254360364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft's new Barrelfish OS: built on domain specific languages written in Haskell :: PDF" < 1254360414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Where is zero - I can only approach it" < 1254360452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254360482 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254360483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1254360485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sgeo - Any context of zero - it doesn't matter if it is numbers (they make an imaginary place and call it zero) - it is known only by God" < 1254360492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^someone in a Bible channel < 1254360509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254360521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, surely you have better things to do than troll a bible channel < 1254360559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see someone saying things like "I guess only Our Almighty Father knows how a quark can exist and yet not exist at the same time.", what can I do < 1254360579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there really is a quantum physics thing with simulantaneous existance/non-existance < 1254360613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realise that they're delusional and believe an inconsistent, unjustified assertion without evidence, and thus cannot be reasoned with and will contradict facts merely because they contradict their own contradictory belief system? < 1254360629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's untrollable. < 1254360671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even talking about God. I'm talking about science. < 1254360684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could point out that just because they don't understand something, it doesn't mean that God intends _all_ human beings forever not to understand it. < 1254360692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they will not separate the two; science only comes below God. < 1254360695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/they/_they_/ < 1254360697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are wasting your time. < 1254360724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this guy things he understands things, like how humans don't understand 0 or infinity < 1254360742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course he doesn't understand things, he's a Christian! < 1254360753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ehird -----### < 1254360768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're as prejudiced as that guy < 1254360778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever read the bible oerjan < 1254360790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, I haven't seen that guy be prejudiced, just stupid < 1254360812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: comments like that indicate your prejudice < 1254360824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you are refusing to see the point that just because someone believes the bible they don't have to extend their stupidity to _everything_ < 1254360829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the Bible may be evil, but that doesn't mean Christians are < 1254360835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course - but this person clearly DOES < 1254360855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sure, but it is not _because_ of the bible < 1254360863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, of course I'm prejudiced against idiots. At least my belief system is self-correcting, has shown real results and is not based on unfalsifiable obvious fairy tales. < 1254360868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with the Bible. Not a great read, tough. < 1254360869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just his excuse < 1254360871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1254360873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! I just proved to myself that I'm capable of disagreeing with ehird! < 1254360879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: considering the bible says so much that is simply not so, scientifically, it totally is < 1254360913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you hate science fiction? < 1254360916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not all Christians are idiots. Not closely examining every little thing that you were taught does not make you an idiot. < 1254360926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't believe science fiction is true. < 1254360928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did I would be an idiot. < 1254360938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I never claimed all Christians are idiots. < 1254360942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about *one* *person*. < 1254360943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1254360953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Of course he doesn't understand things, he's a Christian!" < 1254360961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what you're saying is the Bible is evil because people believe it? < 1254360977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I also never said the bible is evil; please do not take Sgeo's misquotes and apply them to me. thanks. < 1254360979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that was < 1254360983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) joking < 1254360988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) not implying anything < 1254360990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the one who said the Bible was evil < 1254361000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christians do indeed not understand things; not all things, and I never said they were idiots. < 1254361001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh wait, I was misreading one of your responses to oerjan < 1254361006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1254361011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But being a Christian in the modern age is, indeed, not understanding things about science. < 1254361022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least about what is fiction and what isn't < 1254361048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bible's rather shoddy fiction, no coherent plot and a lot of gratuitous explicit scenes, and the hero is a bitch :P < 1254361085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree with you there! < 1254361119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people believing in the Bible and understanding science are not mutually exclusive < 1254361152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering the Bible states things that are simply scientifically untrue, yes they are < 1254361170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless they read the whole Bible and take the whole thing literally, no < 1254361179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Believing in the Bible" was what was said. < 1254361204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, if you believe in an arbitrary subset of the Bible according to an arbitrary interpretation ignoring the text... no, wait, you're still believing in something unfalsifiable given without evidence, so you fail at science. < 1254361208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might still be considered to "believe in the Bible" without taking the whole thing loiterally < 1254361239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know someone who maintains everything in the Bible to be 100% fact while still agreeing with modern science. He gets a bit fuzzy around some bits, but I would not consider himself to be unscientific < 1254361240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe at applying science to everything, but that doesn't mean you disagree with scientific knowledge < 1254361244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/himself/him/ < 1254361267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, let me get this straight: what does he do with his hair? does he stone adulterers? < 1254361274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or has he resigned himself to going to Hell? < 1254361301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly took the shortcut of saying that Jesus overturned the rules of the OT, or whatever < 1254361303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, he keeps it shot lest he develop gargantuan strength and accidentally hurt a friend ;) < 1254361313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol coppro < 1254361328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so, apart from that wink there, he clearly does not take the bible as 100% true < 1254361361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my sarcasm, not his < 1254361368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1254361369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his hair is short though < 1254361383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was simply stating that he empirically does not believe in the Bible totally. < 1254361387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is undeniable < 1254361421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You'd be surprised. I haven't managed to work out how he manages to believe in modern science and the Bible. But he does. < 1254361591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: um < 1254361592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just disproved it < 1254361627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, you did not < 1254361670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does he do with adulterers. < 1254361698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my knowledge he's never encountered one < 1254361701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your premise is that a logical belief-system and an illogical one are irreconcilable because they contradict each other. Do note, however, that one of the belief systems is illogical, and thus the combined beliefe system is, by definition, illogical. < 1254361733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple, if he doesn't do what the bible says, and he doesn't think he's going to hell, then he does NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE < 1254361786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to ask him on that one < 1254361824 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254361853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect that he would say that the specific instructions given in the Bible can only be properly interpreted in their historical context < 1254362738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254362755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you mean he doesn't literally believe in the bible? shocking. < 1254362796 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He believes in it; he just doesn't take the instructions literally < 1254362799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference < 1254362841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every christian "believes" in the bible by that measure < 1254362854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1254362858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only unusual if they believe in what it says as WHAT IT SAYS rather than some extremely hamfisted, arbitrary interpretation of their own design < 1254362859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 this music < 1254362874 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you agree with ehird when you did something and he said that people who do that are idiots? < 1254362904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, I'd need to be reminded of when this was < 1254362915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it sounds familiar, as in, very recent < 1254362925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because i do that all the time. < 1254362938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm fairly sure Warrigal wouldn't know; he does, after all, have me on ignore. < 1254362941 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he believes in the historical account. < 1254362947 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you said "s***", asterisks and all, and he said that self-censorship is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of offense or something. < 1254362967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so he believes in it selectively < 1254362968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes historical accounts < 1254362969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no instructions < 1254362973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., selectively. < 1254362978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: disagree < 1254363009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I told you to go pour me a glass of water, and instead you dipped the glass in a pitcher, would you be, for any reasonable definition, violating my instruction? < 1254363018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, I think I might have disagreed, then < 1254363020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure < 1254363030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, if we're talking about interpreting your instructions *literally* < 1254363030 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1254363032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we are < 1254363042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why though < 1254363045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about whether he believes in the bible literally, which is the whole point of the bible: to be believed in as it says < 1254363053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because I didn't pour. < 1254363057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put it in a pitcher instead. < 1254363060 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Hey, there are Christians on IRC. < 1254363066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why are we taking everything literally though? < 1254363079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254363087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: even in here :P < 1254363144 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where I can find these people. < 1254363162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: most places. in here, for instance. oh wait you can't hear me < 1254363191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Try #christianity or something on a network that tolerates them < 1254363206 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers and awesome bash quote now < 1254363214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1254363214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ass, ha ha. < 1254363305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh? < 1254363308 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if freenode is a network that tolerates... it. < 1254363313 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1254363325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely why I mentioned other networks in the first place < 1254363330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try efnet < 1254363336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything goes on efnet < 1254363341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Come join us in ##religion where the main community is building" < 1254363343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--##christianity < 1254363351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole 13 people in ##religion. < 1254363388 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode policy says that religious "invective" is off-topic. Presumably, civil discussion is just fine. < 1254363393 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I'll try EFnet. < 1254363400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is for peer-directed project. < 1254363402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*projects < 1254363411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't understand Warrigal; is he realising that there are Christians on IRC at all, or that they might congregate in one channel? < 1254364738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in EFNet < 1254364781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and everyone. < 1254365014 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what channel? < 1254365032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#atheism, #Bible, and #secondlife < 1254365061 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is #secondlife a Bible channel? < 1254365069 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How Christian is #atheism? < 1254365104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: master of asking questions that he knows the answer to. < 1254366454 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254368496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to find Helvetica and Helvetica Neue in single unified .ttfs with hinting < 1254368497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a pony < 1254369178 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254369418 0 :hekau!n=hekau@75.108.141.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254370216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hekau < 1254370228 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, ehird < 1254370236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen your name around here before; new? < 1254370252 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, any advice? < 1254370262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, turn back before the darkness envelops you < 1254370278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you're here for the programming languages and not the esoterick magick we sometimes see people after < 1254370313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page will be useful if you haven't already seen it < 1254370316 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think that? < 1254370333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: well, because that's what this channel is about and technology is freenode's main topic. i guess my assumption was erroneous? < 1254370365 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the mistake was mine - you are correct. how embarassing. < 1254370386 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am also fond of code < 1254370422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically we only deal in the useless languages, which is closer to esoterica than most related things. < 1254370452 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, for example? < 1254370468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's useful < 1254370469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the canonical example, also: unlambda, intercal < 1254370486 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro :P < 1254370493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, we're off-topic an awful lot, although I doubt we could seriously entertain the topic of magick for more than a few seconds :) < 1254370507 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not into magick :) < 1254370536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was using it as a blanket term for esoterica, heretical as that may be < 1254370542 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the psychology of the occult - more of an anthropologic perspective, you know? < 1254370553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes Magic < 1254370561 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gathering? :P < 1254370567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: none of those words make any sense to me and yet they are somehow infinitely intriguing < 1254370571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth do you mean < 1254370592 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254370618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, i understand all of them < 1254370623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :individually. < 1254370652 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than focusing on the application of occult knowledge, i instead enjoy musing with the human aspect of the occult - ie what is it about the occult that appeals to people, where does it derive its power, is it merely a manifestation of subconscious human abilities, etc. etc. < 1254370663 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do certain symbols have power < 1254370670 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or specific connotations within our psyche < 1254370672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i be a cynical bastard and answer that it has no power. :) < 1254370681 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you are absolutely correct < 1254370684 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the occult has no power < 1254370687 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people however do < 1254370691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: yes < 1254370711 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they exert their will towards a certain goal < 1254370716 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives the illusion of power < 1254370719 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like a placebo of the mind < 1254370720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: so sort of like, what the appeal of the occult is to people? and why it psychologically, causes changes in them? < 1254370721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254370736 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254370739 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1254370774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an existing stuff on this or is it something you thought up :) < 1254370812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's called neurosis < 1254370824 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are people out there who study the occult from the psychological level, but usually they use different terms to avoid the negative connotations < 1254370828 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1254370840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Neurosis (from the Greek νεύρωσις) refers to a class of functional mental disorder involving distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations]] < 1254370846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not. < 1254370861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't trust wikipedia < 1254370872 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton's is better "a mental or personality disturbance not attributable to any known neurological or organic dysfunction " < 1254370889 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, coppro, do you refer to the study of neurosis < 1254370890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's useless < 1254370893 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that i am neurotic? < 1254370900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Neurosis: It's the condition when we don't know what the fuck the condition is!" < 1254370904 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the former < 1254370910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the former < 1254370918 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, you are exactly correct. < 1254370924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, for example, the placebo effect < 1254370936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :placebo is about physical < 1254370947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as hekau said they're talking about placebo of the mental < 1254370955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ awkward sentence there < 1254370955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's caused neurologically < 1254370985 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neurosis by the princeton definition does apply in this context < 1254370990 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks < 1254370993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254371013 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this example is a bit cliche < 1254371016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, coppro uses a term, I dispute it with a definition < 1254371017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people experience things that cannot be attributed to any disease simply because they want to < 1254371022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he disputes it back with a definition that doesn't apply either < 1254371025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254371027 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the nazi party is the perfect case of occultism at work < 1254371047 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a form of neurosis < 1254371058 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird - too logical :P < 1254371069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's me < 1254371082 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blessing & curse < 1254371092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the nazi party didn't really have rituals did it < 1254371097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just brainwashing of a sort < 1254371112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do you think double-blind experiments exist? It's well-documented, for instance, that expectations bias even the most meticulous of scientists < 1254371112 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly they made heavy use of occult symbolism < 1254371128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I agree; and? < 1254371142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: true, but aren't rituals a kinda important aspect of occultism? < 1254371143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's the same thing < 1254371147 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swastika, the symbol for the SS, a skull resting atop two crossed bones, terminology, the linkage between the aryan race and german mythology < 1254371149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as what < 1254371169 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah now were in the realm of werner heisenberg < 1254371174 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favs. < 1254371178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what hekau was talking about, with people causing their expectations/beliefs to change their perceptions of the world < 1254371196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double blind is just guarding against people giving signals unintentionally. < 1254371207 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i'm sure there are rituals as well < 1254371213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys, did we just go off topic in three lines or what < 1254371216 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be surprised - let me try to find some < 1254371218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's more than that < 1254371239 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wikipedia to the rescue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism_and_Occultism < 1254371275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1254371278 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1254371283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254371285 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they have to name drop aleister crowley in there < 1254371295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crowley amuses me < 1254371299 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me < 1254371314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hitler was a christian, so it seems quite odd to adopt occultism < 1254371314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A perfect blind experiment, for instance, requires the researchers setting up the experiment and the researchers measuring the results to be different and unaware of each other < 1254371318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again he wasn't much of a christian. < 1254371335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, A+ for the practicing christianity thing, F for killing a bunch of people, you know < 1254371346 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the masons, rosicrucians, etc. are all 'christian' orders < 1254371359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masonry isn't anything though. < 1254371366 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not outwardly < 1254371367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he was pretty A+ at killing people < 1254371376 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do require a belief in god < 1254371392 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, unfortunately < 1254371405 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good convo. < 1254371414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: now, let's not get into conspiracy theories; by all accounts masonry is a bunch of people chatting and considering themselves superior because they act out silly plays and claim to believe in god < 1254371436 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau, i thought you were referring to nothing as in no religious affiliation < 1254371438 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not intention < 1254371441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chants mason voodoo quietly in the corner. < 1254371442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they're agnostic as to what religion as long as it has a Supreme Being; although the rest of it may be stepped in Christianity, I don't know < 1254371447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: stop talking to yourself! < 1254371450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254371453 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird :P < 1254371458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nazi mason voodoo. < 1254371463 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have my best conversations with myself < 1254371464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1254371473 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi mason voodoo of aleister crowley no less < 1254371485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi mason voodoo of aleister crowley's rubber duck. < 1254371488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quack < 1254371517 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1254371566 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways really we're just dealing with the inherent will of the individual here < 1254371572 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not any magic or whatever < 1254371594 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when enough people believe something it becomes true < 1254371603 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there you have it < 1254371614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much what i thought prior < 1254371624 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but what a shock to all the goths < 1254371651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why? you just don't appreciate the vibrations, man < 1254371660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just can't accept what uh, isn't real < 1254371676 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mom, can i summon the devil to help me clean my room? < 1254371696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT UNTIL YOU CLEAN YOUR ROOM < 1254371706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1254371706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254371718 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand me, mom! nobody does! KORN < 1254371758 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantheism is interesting < 1254371763 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturalistic pantheism < 1254371765 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1254371778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porntheism is more interesting. < 1254371780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantheism is boring. "if I redefine 'god' to mean 'universe', I can be an atheistic theist! GENIUS!" < 1254371788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm so... profound..." < 1254371788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254371799 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, point taken < 1254371816 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so p.c. < 1254371827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda get the feeling someone took einstein's words a bit too literally and came up with pantheism < 1254371846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in spooky action at a distance < 1254371857 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe in synchronicity < 1254371876 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, einstein does get muddled < 1254371883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't synchronicity just a word for "i don't understand probability-- hey, look, a coincidence!" < 1254371960 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningful coincidence is probabilistic? < 1254371998 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can be wrong here, it's cool. < 1254372002 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254372055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1254372066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that synchronicity is always explainable with less hand-waving and metaphysics by probability, the fact that coincidences *do* happen, and the brain's selective remembering: how many instances of non-synchronicity do you remember?! (see also: Baader-Meinhof phenomenon) < 1254372076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf it was deleted. < 1254372093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254372101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic thing is that you see something, then notice it more < 1254372106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because previously, your brain subconsciously ignored it < 1254372112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then when it's brought to your attention... < 1254372119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, it seems that everyone's finding something at the same time as you < 1254372126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brain becoming more alert to mentionings of it < 1254372130 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just sounds like advertising < 1254372138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, no < 1254372142 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1254372148 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bombard someone with something until they notice < 1254372161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply: if you think about something, your brain switches from "subconsciously ignore" to "try to find" < 1254372172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advertising could use it, i guess, but it's unrelated < 1254372180 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you're getting at < 1254372198 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called...self manifestation or something or other < 1254372208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baader-meinhof :P < 1254372217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure why it's called that) < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Baader-Meinhof phenomenon" was coined by a reader of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. The Minnesota newspaper runs a daily column called "Bulletin Board," for which readers, using pseudonyms, submit humorous or interesting anecdotes. The term was coined when a reader submitted a story around 1986,[1] about how he or she first heard about the terrorist group known as the Baader-Meinhof Gang and then heard about it again a short while later from a totally d < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifferent source. < 1254372258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iterasi.net/openviewer.aspx?sqrlitid=vpdslrou9k6lgly97zdw9w < 1254372261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy of the WP article < 1254372299 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the article < 1254372452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess one day we'll have to accept that we're no longer just about the languages :) < 1254372485 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i'm sorry to drag you all so off topic < 1254372494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is... normal :| < 1254372517 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll be off then < 1254372521 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!n=user@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254372528 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing, testing < 1254372530 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun chaps, thanks for humoring me < 1254372530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo[Emacs]: NO! < 1254372559 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, is rcirc better? < 1254372564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254372565 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254372570 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using ERC now < 1254372575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it and especially stop THAT but stop the emacs too. < 1254372582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pit stop. < 1254372622 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1254372625 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so horrible? < 1254372668 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to use this as my regular client, incidentally < 1254372668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are using an IRC client written in a dialect of Lisp with no lexical scoping in a no-multitasking, crippled ...thing environment that claims to be an operating system and has so many kludges your brain would hurt. < 1254372672 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just testing it out < 1254372680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claims to be an editor < 1254372685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freudian slip there. < 1254372724 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame the book I bought at least 9 years ago that I thought would be about Macs < 1254372739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I blame you because you did this. < 1254372755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee lack of lexical scoping! < 1254372772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least have the decency to use vim if you're going to be using an awful editor. It has a coherent philosophy of combining commands and what they apply to. < 1254372782 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1254372789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages without lexical scoping are great for some things < 1254372791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test failed because you're using ERC. < 1254372803 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now in two channels at once. < 1254372808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a bad person. < 1254372845 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I take it that ehird doesn't like lisp? < 1254372862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say that? < 1254372863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that. < 1254372881 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have lexical scoping... or is it just elisp that doesn't have it? < 1254372894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike Lisps with no lexical scoping, a ton of shitness and a bunch of design decisions firmly rooted in the 80s running in a terrible, crippled single-tasking environment that sucks so much because it used to be an editor. < 1254372904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Lisp worth its salt has lexical scoping. < 1254372907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every LANGUAGE worth its salt does. < 1254372910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even PHP has it. < 1254372953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if I ping Sgeo[Emacs] < 1254372965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at life. < 1254372965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254372979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs doesn't react, or otherwise indicate to switch over to it, but the nick's hilighted < 1254373261 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, emacs got confused and decided that my /server was in this window < 1254373328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/uLH0g.png < 1254373348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, you're not even using EmacsW32. < 1254373412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know it existed. Thanks < 1254373420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the patched version. < 1254373428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hide the toolbar. It's worthless. < 1254373579 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I said that I was using CUA, what would your reaction be? < 1254373675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's saner than the Emacs bindings. Too bad you broke your C-x key. Oh wait, it has a hack to fix that. Shazam, it sure is nice hacking around the fact that Emacs is a pile of shit. < 1254373800 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you once tell me to use emacs to edit haskell source? < 1254373817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, at the time there was nothing better. maybe leksah is decent these days. < 1254373829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely not for anything that isn't haskell or lisp editing. < 1254373854 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERC has a feature you missed on X-Chat < 1254373864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1254373867 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to click a link and having it open < 1254373887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome has that, and I think it's a setting in xchat. < 1254374023 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this Pal and Fo... are these just ERC's names for friend and ignore? < 1254374037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1254374038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs, using different, stupid terminology for existing concepts? < 1254374039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCK HORROR < 1254374042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SHOCKED < 1254374044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND HORRORED < 1254374048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just made my name grey < 1254374079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coool. < 1254374083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooooooooooool. < 1254374540 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-c < 1254374548 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254374566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that cut? OH WAIT IT'S BASED ON THE PRESENCE OF A SELECTION AND A TIME DELAY. < 1254374571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs kludges, I'm shocked. shocked. < 1254374749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that C-c C-c might be ambiguous < 1254374773 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c C-c C-c C-c C-c C < 1254374782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it C-c - or C-c C-c? < 1254374910 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-Cc_c-C--CC-C-CCcc-C--C < 1254375714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254375737 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254375817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254376103 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254376389 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254376396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ever tried esoc? < 1254376410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, esco < 1254376414 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esco.sf.net < 1254376481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1254376481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1254376485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco is a running joke here. well, used to be. < 1254376503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a shitty idea, and they spammed our wiki. < 1254376510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it became so wildly out of date that we forgot about it. < 1254376511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they live in a warped version of reality; < 1254376517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Byter is a language for training your brain" -esco < 1254376520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Byter is a language for training brains" -esolang wiki < 1254376535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I liked how they implemented all the BF derivatives with a huge amount of boilerplate < 1254376538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was fun, that. < 1254376568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildly out of date? the wiki?? < 1254376591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254376624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering what Gregor was referring to < 1254376635 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking at the esco package < 1254376654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there's a lot of "boilerplate" there, but the GNU Auto{conf,make} stuff takes more room than anything < 1254376656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shit and the idea is shit < 1254376667 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in C++ too (meh) :-/ < 1254376667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254376667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254376679 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254376686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb wb wb < 1254376698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now type 'make' and pray"... heh < 1254376725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much boilerplate... < 1254376741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, you can *totally use macros*. Just saying. < 1254376757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco is fundamentally pointless; nobody has ever thought "gee, I wish all these slow and badly-written esolang interpreters were in the same binary" < 1254376767 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros in C++? isn't that frowned upon? < 1254376771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's all pretty poor. < 1254376797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Because people prefer typing more? < 1254376811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't a C++ dude < 1254376837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C macros are crappy metaprogramming, but it is at least metaprogramming. And C++ *badly* needs it... < 1254377654 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254377676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome. < 1254377690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome. to. < 1254377719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've recently come to realize math is not as easy as cs. < 1254377741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp. < 1254377742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and. < 1254377780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andler < 1254377815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the exercises in automata theory took me like 5 hours < 1254377827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be a fucking expert! :P < 1254377855 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254377860 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got esco to work ... barely < 1254377870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automata theory is... Both math and CS... < 1254377893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it's at math dep, therefore has about 40 times harder homework. < 1254377984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying math is inherently harder than cs... although i suppose it is < 1254377991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i am saying that < 1254378048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also enough irc for today, the fun starts in 10 minutes ~> < 1254378087 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, what's 10 min?? < 1254378180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably classes. < 1254378304 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considered that although in his part of the world, it's a little after midnight < 1254378350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6:25 am in uk. < 1254378352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in fi. < 1254378596 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what exactly were the problems with esco? < 1254378601 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem THAT bad < 1254378614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because it's a shitty idea, and they spammed our wiki. < 1254378616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : esco is fundamentally pointless; nobody has ever thought "gee, I wish all these slow and badly-written esolang interpreters were in the same binary" < 1254378641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were also obnoxious on irc. < 1254378718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the irony of that statement ;-) < 1254378727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think of the last time he's set himself up for disappointment this much < 1254378743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I'm an asshole; there's a difference. < 1254378767 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think IRC itself just lends to colder interaction < 1254378793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just you < 1254378795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously) < 1254378815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm not a dick irl :) < 1254378822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly due to shyness, though. < 1254378923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, esco isn't that bad an idea, but it's pretty paltry to only support say six languages (I expected lots more) < 1254378958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a good idea. why should every language be written by people who aren't experts in it, and have it all put in one binary < 1254378961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the purpose < 1254378988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem, Parrot anyone? ;-) < 1254379023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even slightly similar < 1254379026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parrot is just a vm. < 1254379065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have implemented various languages for it < 1254379069 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1254379072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1254379078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concepts are completely unrelated < 1254379104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco? < 1254379207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco.sf.net < 1254379231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you say they're all slow, but sometimes speed isn't important < 1254379242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it executes as much as possible esoteric languages? < 1254379257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boo cvs < 1254379282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: so what? < 1254379285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use a standalone interpreter < 1254379307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco's interpreters all suck their only advantage is that they're all in one binary and maintained by people who don't know the language due to attempting to be jacks of all trades < 1254379310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a VM has advantages < 1254379311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they spammed our wiki. < 1254379317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they don't have a vm < 1254379321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all separate interpreters < 1254379321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254379352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated note, I should learn to use LLVM < 1254379411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not all standalone interpreters are created equal anyways < 1254379422 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think esco is necessarily any worse than most < 1254379428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh, what? < 1254379498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the wiki says BFF4LNR is the fastest interpreter < 1254379530 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's debatable, esp. since he only used old compilers (and it got worse with Cygwin on the second test, which is suspicious) < 1254379552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1254379604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of esco's interpreters are 5-minute affairs that standalone, would be worthless. all it is is a switch over multiple languages executing each one. this is identical to multiple binaries, but stupider, and only serves to try and hide the fact that the interpreters are bad and anyone could make one equivalent in a few minutes: these are not best of breed; they're rubbish < 1254379609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they spammed our wiki; did i mention that. < 1254379654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammed as in what? kept adding over and over and over despite resistance? < 1254379669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and standalone wastes more cluster space, don't cha know ;-) < 1254379681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they added their interpreter to every single language article they supported, and readded them back without comment when they were removed < 1254379691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once months after, iirc < 1254379701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly spamming < 1254379719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people (e.g. Wikipedia) are more against external links than others < 1254379727 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Befunge article on Wikipedia isn't exactly perfect either < 1254379734 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should edit that one of these days < 1254379763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge isn't really notable < 1254379792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is, more than HPQ+ (or whatever it's called) ;-) < 1254379809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and this irc channel is more notable than my toilet. < 1254379810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254379862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9 < 1254379867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HQ9+ < 1254379878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the object-oriented variant, HQ9++ < 1254380210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just silly, that one is < 1254380225 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deranged enough ;-) < 1254380638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254382450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254382461 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254383671 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254383999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254384000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254385295 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254387836 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254390054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1254391955 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254392804 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254392909 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254393345 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-fiddolebusocxzbi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254394361 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254394406 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254394979 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cgrpddulasjceuss JOIN :#esoteric < 1254395461 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254395705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254397956 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-5-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254398343 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254400069 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-doxthjaqslxungfx JOIN :#esoteric < 1254404536 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254405536 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-zlzpxdxsiwryvebb JOIN :#esoteric < 1254405548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1254405577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird will probably think I'm crazy but: I have a massively powerful desktop computer here, but I'm using it just to talk on IRC while my laptop does a fsck < 1254405687 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define massively powerful < 1254405725 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254406023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Capable of destroying a planet in a single stroke. < 1254406038 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you don't have a program to do that? < 1254406045 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else you'd have used it, I mean < 1254406058 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would've*, I guess < 1254406081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's in a Ubuntu repository somewhere, but I don't have a massively enough powerful desktop. < 1254406095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1254406097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1254406151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254406170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: more powerful than I'm used to computers being < 1254406178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably less powerful than whatever ehird has < 1254406187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1254406189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, specs? < 1254406192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1254406204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cat /proc/cpuinfo free -m lspci < 1254406205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1254406220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those works as non-root < 1254406235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking the permissions on /proc first < 1254406240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm rather paranoid...) < 1254406251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you *can't* change proc permissions afaik < 1254406267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you patch the kernel < 1254406267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could mount it inside a folder that didn't have the right permissions to seek into it < 1254406272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need root perms to mount proc < 1254406297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it seems to be a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz < 1254406308 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quad < 1254406316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need root permissions to mount anything. Except that there is suid stuff to handle stuff like "any user may mount the cd" and such < 1254406318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which runs at 1998MHz, according to the same entry < 1254406331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it has 4 cores < 1254406336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to fit the name < 1254406343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about running speed: dynamic cpu speed, will increase ondemand < 1254406348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you have seen that before < 1254406349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1254406358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably; I didn't realise that showed up in /proc/cpuinfo though < 1254406393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for memory, it seems to have 2002516k RAM and 4192924k swap (according to top) < 1254406404 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+", @ ~2GHz IIRC < 1254406426 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is fast enough for me, for now < 1254406441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All in all, that's not really "massively powerful". You could maybe destroy a small moon with it, I guess. < 1254406467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local-to-HD partitions that are mounted atm seem to have 57.5 GB total space < 1254406474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my home drive's on a network share somewhere < 1254406481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an artificially small size < 1254406489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disk isn't really very easy to measure < 1254406530 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about RAM? < 1254406543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 2G, already mentioned. < 1254406547 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254406557 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there, missed that line < 1254406781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that doesn't look like exactly 2G, but close enough < 1254406800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that number isn't even a mix of binary and decimal multipliers like 1000MiB would be < 1254406811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always some bits and pieces reserved for whatever. < 1254406815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has integrated graphics or something stupid like that < 1254406821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just for the record; this work-workstation is a "Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz" (though running at 2 GHz), with 2 GB of memory and a 160G local disk, though with some four-five terabytes of network shares (mostly full); so ais523's box is certainly more powerful. I'd be lucky to manage to destroy a small Kuiper belt object with this. < 1254406901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My desktop computer has about the same specs as that < 1254406960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one will probably come in useful for things like placing&routing (that is, taking a schematic and trying to lay it out in physical space) < 1254406974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's generally done by brute force or genetic algorithms, and takes hours as a result < 1254407012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the clock here seems wrong < 1254407014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're officially supposed to farm anything that takes more than a trivial amount of computation to our grid for computation. < 1254407016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's showing UTC? < 1254407039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% date \ Thu Oct 1 14:23:47 BST 2009 < 1254407044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's with that prompt? < 1254407056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% echo $SHELL \ /bham/bin/tcsh < 1254407057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH < 1254407067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "BST" there, though. Maybe it's just wrong-wrong? < 1254407074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1254407077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it actually? < 1254407088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thu Oct 1 13:24:43 UTC 2009 < 1254407092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, UTC. < 1254407113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:24 is 14:23 BST < 1254407123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help, I've lost an hour somehow < 1254407128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 2 pm here over an hour ago < 1254407137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now everyone's teling me it was only about 24 minutes? < 1254407182 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :Jerry!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrrm, that recent freenode global notice makes it sound like a deliberate act. < 1254407186 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the notice? < 1254407211 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ka-pow. That "very shortly" in there wasn't kidding. < 1254407249 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:25:30] [>> $*] [Global Notice] Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software which means we'll need to restart several ircds over the next few days. We're going to stagger it to reduce disruption, and the first round will be happening very shortly. Affected users for now will be about 1300. Apologies for the inconvenience! < 1254407251 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest19311 < 1254407253 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that notice < 1254407263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great notice < 1254407270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how they discovered the leak? < 1254407280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I went to a lecture at 2pm < 1254407285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lasted an hour, then it was 3pm < 1254407289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I went to my office < 1254407294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's half past 2 < 1254407298 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:D < 1254407301 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive < 1254407304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: I'm thinking too much about Feather < 1254407304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software which means we'll need to restart several ircds over the next few days. We're going to stagger it to reduce disruption, and the first round will be happening very shortly. Affected users for now will be about 1300. Apologies for the inconvenience!" < 1254407332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second possibility: someone noticed my initial confusion < 1254407338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone decided to play along < 1254407344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people in my office could by seeing my screen < 1254407351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people on IRC could be sending queries back and forth < 1254407364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third possibility: both the clock tower and the clock in the lecture room are wrong < 1254407368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lecture actually started at 1 < 1254407381 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should go with #1 < 1254407385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a way which mislead me into thinking it started at 2 < 1254407406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the time has been moved to 1 for next week...) < 1254407438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 is appropriately paranoid. < 1254407561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Wikipedia says it's 13:30 UTC or thereabouts, and the page I checked that on hasn't been changed since August < 1254407575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I conclude that it is indeed about half past 2 my time < 1254407603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, theory that actually makes sense < 1254407610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believed that the lecture was at 2 < 1254407615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I arrived in good time, over an hour < 1254407623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I got there I saw that I only had about 10 minutes left < 1254407628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecture was actually at 1 and I misremembered < 1254407642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only looked at the clock's minute hand as I was in a hurry < 1254407644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no no, believing things that are wrong doesn't make sense, just ask ehird < 1254407656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1254407663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the lecture was actually starting at the time, this confirmed my belief that it was in fact 2pm < 1254407717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did change the room the lecture was in, maybe they changed the time at the same time and I didn't notice < 1254407776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you usually arrive an hour in advance? maybe your subconscious new anyhow >:) < 1254407786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knew < 1254408098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: square root of minus garfield o_O < 1254408156 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254408174 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, we don't want no complex garfields < 1254408182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1254408187 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1254408199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye webirc < 1254408209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why I was too lazy to quit over there and used NickServ instead... < 1254408220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: too late < 1254408252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've tried being lazy that way with irssi, doesn't work... < 1254408262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1254408272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because irssi reconnects < 1254408287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awful manners, reconnecting if you're killed or kicked < 1254408307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicking's kind-of pointless if people don't get the hint... < 1254408335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nick collision though, irssi may not really know about them... < 1254408357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get nick-collided while online, it means you're either using your own nick and you did that deliberately (and so don't want a reconnection) < 1254408372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you're using someone else's nick and you should really get the hint that they don't want you to use it < 1254408373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but irssi has an alternative nick < 1254408399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or your using your own nick and someone else has tried to steal it. < 1254408412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ur/u're/ < 1254408436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd need to know your NickServ password to do that < 1254408441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, the correct solution isn't to log on again < 1254408442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In service-less networks, that is. < 1254408447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1254408461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but the issue here is that if it was a _real_ nick collision then you wouldn't be able to reconnect because the other nick would still be there... < 1254408463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logging on again would simply not work in that situation < 1254408467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1254408473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about ghosting here < 1254408492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since freenode's ghosting doesn't do that, irssi doesn't know what is happening < 1254408500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've concluded, that in the only situations in which reconnecting after a nick collision actually works, you don't want to do it < 1254408533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. there is also the issue of moving across netsplits < 1254408561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're moving deliberately, your nick isn't on the other side of the netsplit < 1254408570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to maintain two connections to be on /both/ sides of the netsplit < 1254408582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wouldn't want both of them to autoconnect after that or there'd be two of you < 1254408583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1254408614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On IRCnet, earlier, the behaviour I remember when netsplit ends and a nick collision is found is to kill both sides. In which case you'd want to reconnect pretty fast to actually get your own nick back. < 1254408634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays it just forcibly renames both participants, I think. < 1254408728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I see the scenario you're talking about now < 1254408731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on one side of a netsplit < 1254408737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who wants to steal your nick joins the other side < 1254408741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the netsplit ends < 1254408775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's how nick- and channel-stealing used to be done. (The channel stealing by joining the channel on some server where it was empty, which made you gain ops there.) < 1254408842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, isn't the nick-collision kill is just your regular free-format "whoops, you died" error message? I'm not very sure there's some easily distinguishable and standardized "and don't come back" marker there. < 1254408963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of people do have "auto-rejoin when kicked out of a channel" on, though, and even I can't really figure out a justification for that. < 1254409076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the trick is clearly to join the channel simultaneously at 1pm and 2pm < 1254409085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254409100 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254409646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254415740 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning america < 1254416128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning october < 1254416187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mailman reminders < 1254416202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:59:37 ehird will probably think I'm crazy but: I have a massively powerful desktop computer here, but I'm using it just to talk on IRC while my laptop does a fsck < 1254416208 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mid-autumn season here in korea < 1254416211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, funnily enough most people with good computers don't always max it out :) < 1254416214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:11:37 anyway, it seems to be a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz < 1254416227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more powerful than I have; I have a two-core instead of 4 and it's only 2.16GHz < 1254416233 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Autumn_Festival < 1254416235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1254416236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, probably an earlier generation; this is from the first batch of Core 2s < 1254416242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to feel like a corporate computer though < 1254416248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore unperformant no matter how powerful it is < 1254416251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because you can't mess with it? < 1254416255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it takes several minutes to boot into either Win7 or CentOS < 1254416259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which feels wrong < 1254416269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's very wrong < 1254416306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it doesn't even have 2GiB of RAM? < 1254416306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 1.9GiB < 1254416310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's say 2GiB :P < 1254416319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere between 2GB and 2GiB < 1254416326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2GiB is ridiculously little for a quad-core; I have 2.5GiB on this dual-core and it's sometimes limiting < 1254416341 0 :nooga!n=nooga@188.33.56.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4GiB would be the minimum I'd put in a quad-core... < 1254416344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the delay on booting is due to network stuff, though < 1254416357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1254416357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever they did to it... < 1254416370 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254416376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i here? < 1254416378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254416379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254416380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:20:15 maybe it has integrated graphics or something stupid like that < 1254416383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly < 1254416385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really stupid < 1254416396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you liked using the minimum spec computers you can? < 1254416402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not doing graphics work or gaming, ... < 1254416406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in a computer science department, because there's a nonzero chance the people here will want to do weird things with the GPU < 1254416411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254416422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the intel drivers for linux are very stable, albeit very slow at the moment < 1254416425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open source to boot < 1254416434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably a plus for you < 1254416444 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1254416453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable... yeah < 1254416460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they get slower and slower < 1254416465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I've not heard of that < 1254416479 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole compiz used to work normally < 1254416488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, once the kernel switches to the new graphics stack they should be quite fast < 1254416489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:22:40 this one will probably come in useful for things like placing&routing (that is, taking a schematic and trying to lay it out in physical space) < 1254416490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment it's a slideshow < 1254416492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with 2GiB of ram! < 1254416496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: compiz is a piece of shit < 1254416533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% annoying flash for the sake of it, mostly ripped off from other OSs, and very very very unstable and slow < 1254416539 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254416553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are contraptions that fake OSX goodies < 1254416559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just turned on compositing in metacity; the window shadows sooth my soul a bit, I guess. < 1254416563 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like expo or that window magic < 1254416568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd call them more baddies :) < 1254416584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, I still think the taskbar is the best wnidow switcher yet invented < 1254416596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using taskbar is pain for me ;[ < 1254416611 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got used to this fast switching < 1254416615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expose isn't much better if you're browsing mostly text web pages < 1254416625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, I want this nondescript wall of text." < 1254416679 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm ;[ < 1254416703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:23:59 % date \ Thu Oct 1 14:23:47 BST 2009 < 1254416703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:04 also, what's with that prompt? < 1254416710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be zsh! it could be zsh! < 1254416711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:16 % echo $SHELL \ /bham/bin/tcsh < 1254416711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:17 AARGH < 1254416713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1254416721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is on there, just not default < 1254416730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, weird place for binaries < 1254416740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:23 help, I've lost an hour somehow < 1254416740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:28 it was 2 pm here over an hour ago < 1254416749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make your computer not auto-DST < 1254416755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll remind you about it the next time it gives extra hours < 1254416755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it wasn't that < 1254416759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read on, and you'll see what happened < 1254416759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll get that extra hour back < 1254416764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nono, I'm trying to remedy the lost hour < 1254416768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1254416785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I meant that I'd gained an hour < 1254416787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly lost 23 < 1254416808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254416833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software" < 1254416837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they release dumbuntu 9.10 final beta today :F < 1254416837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, freenode are incompetent < 1254416865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: dumbmostusableoperatingsystemenvironmentontheplanetcurrentlyexistinganditsalsoalmostentirelyfoss 9.10 beta < 1254416873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make portmanteaus too < 1254416898 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gayphone < 1254416930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are different genders of iphone? < 1254416937 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1254416965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm foss < 1254416984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distros freezing every package before release? moar like FOSSil amirite < 1254417084 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh i don't give a shit if something is foss or not < 1254417097 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like if something works :D < 1254417130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use FOSS as the be-all and end-all of things, but I consider being open source to be considerably enhanced functionality as I really enjoy messing around with code < 1254417137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: found the sound problem. Suspend issues < 1254417140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in FOSS, there are more members of the angry mob, and apple can't pull another one of its fucking "LET'S MAKE THINGS LESS CONSISTENT!!!" moves because everyone else says "fuck. no." < 1254417147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1254417160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's very rare to find a licence that is both open source, and legally lets me make and share changes, but yet is non-free < 1254417166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254417176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and code under such a licence probably wouldn't do very well anyway < 1254417193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer an all-BSD-or-more-lenient-license system, but most of the useful FOSS is GPL'd :P < 1254417214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the BSDs still use a bunch of GPL code, plus I can't deal with bullshit like the ports system < 1254417218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a compromise, but I know such a thing isn't legally feasible < 1254417227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like building a higher idea aroud a hammer or shovel < 1254417230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows software like that - the actual software is free, but the datasets are not < 1254417248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is the point of a compromise? < 1254417258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foss works fine on its own without any restricted bullshit < 1254417279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, GPL except it doesn't lock you in to the GPL but only to licenses with the same general idea < 1254417287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uselses < 1254417289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*useless < 1254417297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the viral licenses without many differences are much the same < 1254417322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make everything a beerware < 1254417329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of weak copyleft licence would be weird and interesting < 1254417333 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open beerware < 1254417333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it would be possible < 1254417345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean stronger than weak copyleft < 1254417349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weaker than strong copyleft < 1254417351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"beerware: because I want to give you tools that help you make this program worse" < 1254417363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would be possible < 1254417378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be gpl-compatible < 1254417383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gpl doesn't have such a twisted-viral clause < 1254417395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find the GPL and similar license to be stronger than I like, and BSD-likes to be weaker than I like < 1254417396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the compatible licenses would be pretty much rewordings < 1254417403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with BSD < 1254417409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the license < 1254417412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1254417423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can make arbitrary licences, even commercial ones, GPL-compatible by adding a clause allowing derivative works to be licenced under the GPL < 1254417428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too weak; I do not want to be giving my code away free to Apple < 1254417452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's only because you're an idiot with some sort of irrational hate of apple because steve jobs killed your dog or something < 1254417455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least, I prefer a license with an attribution clause < 1254417457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1254417462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, BSD has an attribution clause < 1254417469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually........ read it < 1254417505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not strong enough for me < 1254417516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get commercial software with attributions in the credits because there's BSD stuff in it < 1254417541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knowing the motivations for such a license I'll avoid using or modifying any of your code, I guess < 1254417546 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how obout MIT? < 1254417549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least most people using the GPL just want to "spread the love" < 1254417552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: identical to BSD2 < 1254417558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is identical to BSD3 minus a redundant clause < 1254417604 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1254417612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1254417624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:44:47 that's awful manners, reconnecting if you're killed or kicked < 1254417625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:45:07 kicking's kind-of pointless if people don't get the hint... < 1254417626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicking IS pointlses < 1254417628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointless < 1254417633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just say "stop that" < 1254417634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not kicking me < 1254417640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has as much effect and is less stupi < 1254417641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1254417643 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people listen to kicks < 1254417644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that I don't rejoin if I'm kicked < 1254417645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nd// < 1254417647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for quite a whiel < 1254417648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*while < 1254417650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally hours < 1254417652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could just say "stop that" < 1254417654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was obviously done as a joke < 1254417654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it has as much effect and is less stupi < 1254417678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you're socially functioning enough to be able to be told whatever a kick tells you as words < 1254417683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicks are only useful in a kickban < 1254417705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254417720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen people kick idlers to stop them idling < 1254417722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ranks among the top most stupidest things I've ever heard ehird utter < 1254417734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to stop them getting the things said in there for their privlogs < 1254417736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so amazingly offended coppro < 1254417737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which strikes me as ridiculous < 1254417745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care deeply about what you think about me < 1254417751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, less sarcastically, stfu < 1254417757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, the difference is a person listens to a statement, and their client to kicks < 1254417759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1254417764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a kick is basically CTCP STOPTHAT < 1254417838 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254417850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks < 1254417855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should root really be running nautilus? < 1254417857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks < 1254417877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks ducks quack < 1254417892 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254417999 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254418012 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418164 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418388 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418700 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1254421133 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254421544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a keyboard that looks like the xc spectrum < 1254421546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zx < 1254421763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could buy a Speccy from eBay, and then it's just a matter of a bit of electronics to get it act as a keyboard. < 1254421795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has four non-alphanumeric keys. < 1254421808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter, "caps shift" (I assume capslock), symbol shift and break space. < 1254421831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need space and enter, you need shift, so you only have one modifier key: caps shift (which is admittedly in a good position; a big key right to the left of Z) < 1254421847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the space is at the far-right of the bottom row, which is strange. and the shift just before that, and it's only as big as aletter < 1254421852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the actual layout, not so much < 1254421868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, somethiing not rubber. but it's so cute! < 1254421871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1254421889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can replace the caps-shift key with something pressure-sensitive, and use that for all the conventional modifier keys, depending on how hard you press on it. < 1254421891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/Spectrum/zxspectrum_48k.jpg, http://www.playretro.co.uk/hardware/sinclair_zx_spectrum.jpg < 1254421899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks just like those tiny apple keyboards < 1254421905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could fit batteries in the top part < 1254421913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch :D < 1254421924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gadgaard.org/gadget_past/sinclair_zx-spectrum_hr_1s.jpg it's also super-thin < 1254421934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say something disparaging about the "space in the corner" thing, but the three-line N900 keyboard is probably almost worse. < 1254421938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it just looks like apple made a netbook. except more colourful < 1254421951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, with a wireless screen I guess < 1254421958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no mouse. < 1254421979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you have an n900? < 1254422001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've just been looking at the reviews. :p < 1254422005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rainbow colors aren't that far from the rainbow Apple logo. < 1254422019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254422024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i was thinking < 1254422026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I played with one a bit in the Nokia "flagship store" in Helsinki. < 1254422041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's oh so tiny. < 1254422050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you know what? < 1254422057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should buy a speccy and make it into a laptop < 1254422099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a black bottom box thing with the connectors and a converter to use an LCD, stick it to the bottom of the spectrum, add an on/off switch to it and connect it to a display with minimal frame (painted black if necessary) < 1254422118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod the speccy case to have hinge ability, if needed modify the screen to do the same < 1254422132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is http://www.product-reviews.net/tag/zx-spectrum-48k/ < 1254422136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/It is // < 1254422162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you, you destroy my dreams :( < 1254422167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you leave me in peace :( < 1254422174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it looks ugly. < 1254422176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sleek in the slightest. < 1254422179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides. < 1254422183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built using the Spectrum as a case and keyboard, then the Libretto for innards and the screen. The laptop runs Linux, has a 2-hour battery life and there is plans to emulate some ZX Spectrum games soon. < 1254422189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NOT A SPECTRUM >:| < 1254422204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just ripped open the ZX and put the laptop inside, plus the keyboard stuff. < 1254422210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1254422217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, that screen looks suspiciously widescreen, so it wouldn't even be suitable for ZXy stuff. :P < 1254422221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just looking for the "zx spectrum" image search results, actually, not *only* trying to destroy your dreams. < 1254422234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254422244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up the dimensions of the speccy < 1254422246 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first computer was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZX_Spectrum%2B.jpg < 1254422257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that keyboard looks even worse than the rubber! < 1254422265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on what kind of keys they are < 1254422277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if they're not rubber it's probably better < 1254422280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might be better anyway, since they're bigger < 1254422291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"injection-moulded keyboard" sez http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum < 1254422314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's not really so cute, though. < 1254422319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The feel of the keys is quite unlike any other keyboard I've ever tried < 1254422325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1254422327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s it ... sort of like < 1254422328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1254422328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n// < 1254422335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, not cute. < 1254422375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIZE / WEIGHT 23 x 14,4 x 3 cm / 550g < 1254422380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :550g; that's nice and light. < 1254422423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another "just keep the case, stick a computer inside" mod at http://programbytes48k.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/un-zx-spectrum-convertido-en-un-mini-pc-con-linux/ but at least that lets you do some eyeball size-comparisons between the speccy and "normal" hardware. < 1254422429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they feel kinda mushy but still fairly resistant < 1254422445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 23 wide and 14.4 high. Too lazy to work out the aspect ratio of the 256x192 screen (did it even have square pixels?) but I'm sure there's a screen with appropriate specs. < 1254422459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really come up with anything to compare to :-/ < 1254422487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256:192 is the traditional 4:3, though I have no clue about Spectrum's pixel shape. < 1254422503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Platforms: Sinclair ZX Spectrum < 1254422503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sinclair ZX Spectrum was introduced in the early 80s. ... like the Apple ][ or the BBC had more pixels), and most of all, it had square pixels! ... < 1254422520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pixels were shaped like this: ✡ < 1254422523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is finding a display that's a multiple of 256x192 < 1254422535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2560x1920 < 1254422537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 1024x768 works < 1254422546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make the pixels into 4x4 squares < 1254422552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that could be crisp. < 1254422570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512x384 is x2; isn't that the Macintosh's resolution? < 1254422585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Without extensive messing-around, it's going to be horribly blurry anyway, since the display output of the spectrum is through a RF modulator, to generate a TV signal. < 1254422591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, 512x342. < 1254422607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but the blurriness is what it'd look like on a CRT, no? < 1254422611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a reasonable approximation. < 1254422628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but I'm not sure you're going to have to worry so much about getting the native display resolution "correct". < 1254422638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1254422642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that 1024x768 is a particular good sizer. < 1254422687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screen size would be for 4:3 23cm wide would be 23cm wide, 17.25cm high, right? < 1254422696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone work out the diagonal. :P < 1254422736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hmm; the speccy is 14.4cm deep, so you'd have 2.85cm you could stick on to store stuff.) < 1254422742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't we have bots here that can calculate that? < 1254422745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.3" diagonal, about. < 1254422750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Drive, batteries, etc.) < 1254422755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " or cm? < 1254422762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"; I converteded. < 1254422769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a nice enough diagonal size. < 1254422789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(23^2+17.25^2)/2.54 < 1254422789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.31889763779527559055 < 1254422789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if you can get homebrew drives; it plugged into a tape recorder thing. < 1254422795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they have them for the C64. < 1254422804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would use a USB pendrive or that sort of internals; nice and small. < 1254422808 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove that x*x >= 0 where x<-R < 1254422825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get quite a good battery life out of this; it can't use so much power. < 1254422848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all you need is the PSU, batteries, a drive and a TV->LCD converter in the extra depth part that the screen plugs into. < 1254422913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you feel like writing the software yourself, you could connect the drive to the expansion bus. < 1254422929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you could emulate a tape drive? < 1254422932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just audio, after all. < 1254422948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's software to generate the necessary sounds, yes. < 1254422978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And digitalise the sounds and write to disk, presumably; then you wouldn't need the expansion bus, just whatever ports you plugged the tape into. < 1254423033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1. Go into oh-so-hip coffee shop. Step 2. Start up your Speccytop. Step 3. Play a game. Step 4. Program some trivial BASIC. (For steps 3 and 4, make sure people have a chance of seeing you.) Step 5. Run a program that produces a few beeps, and draws a huge "BATTERY LOW" on the screen. Step 6. Plug it in. (Make sure you sat down near a power outlet when entering.) Step 7. More games. Step 8. Unplug it, walk out. < 1254423037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 9. ??? < 1254423039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 10. Profit! < 1254423044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Step 9 is "post it on YouTube".) < 1254423045 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x > 0, then x*x > x*0, so x*x > 0. If x = 0, then x*x >= 0. If x < 0, then (-x) > 0, so (-x)*(-x) > 0, so x*x > 0. < 1254423104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what axioms did you use? < 1254423205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Of course since it's 2009 and all, you could use a nice 13" 1024x768 touchscreen as the display, and make the touch information available through the expansion bus (it's not like it makes sense to leave it completely unused, after all). < 1254423226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you can't see the cute dinky ZX. < 1254423249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it looks less retro. Also, even rubber keys are more tactile than touchscreens. :P < 1254423268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Besides, 1024x768? But then we'd have to have black borders around it to fit the keyboard below. < 1254423277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the touch could just be used by some few custom programs that benefit from it. < 1254423283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are there even 4:3 touchscreens that big?) < 1254423288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. Why 13" then? < 1254423306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 11" I mean. Whoops. < 1254423307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure we'll get a ZX to browse the web or anything; this isn't the Contiki-lovin' C64.) < 1254423393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would be nice. < 1254423409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That expansion bus - it could be plugged into a modem, yah? < 1254423417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure IRC, at least, is in the Speccy's abilities... < 1254423432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Modem being a 3G stick thing, naturally.) < 1254423448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With necessary converter.) < 1254423452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, one of the actual commercial blobs sold to plug in there has a RS232 serial port. < 1254423478 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254423490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet; I'm sure there's a 3G-stick-to-Ethernet thing, so that'd be uber-trivial. < 1254423496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the software would be a bit of a bitch. < 1254423506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best to use a teeny tiny microcontroller to do it. < 1254424342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/content/news/michael_vick_fails_to_inspire_team?utm_source=a-section x_x < 1254424685 0 :mycrofti1!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254424838 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254424931 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-46-109.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254425050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1254425164 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254426419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plug modem into ZX, then connect the phone line (somehow) to PC sound input/output. Then run software on PC which acts like a modem and forwards data to/from TUN device... Then configure PC to route packets to TUN device. :-> < 1254426491 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modulation and demodulation of modem signaling at the rates those modems have probably won't be heavy task... < 1254426503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yees, well, I think not depending on a computer is a good task. < 1254426511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not task, feature. < 1254426518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feature < 1254426584 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to, emulate PPP on the PC and let to give modem dial command on ZX. Then it just depends on PPP. < 1254426611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I gather it'll be an ethernet cable going into the bus. < 1254426620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "modem" will be a 3G mobile internet USB stick; not really very modem-y. < 1254426660 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How you plan to connect USB device to ZX? Some microcontroller? < 1254426685 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And additionally, since 3G stick is USB gadget, you need USB host controller. < 1254426696 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254426728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: There apparently was sold an RS232<->ZX expansion bus thingy, so it should be a simple matter of using a microcontroller to connect the 3G stick and then get it talking Ethernet. < 1254426756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes into the ZX, which will run the slowest networking stack ever. < 1254426782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, most of the USB microcontroller stuff is USB gadget side, not USB host controllers. < 1254426810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most FPGA stuff has USB ports; I assume, then, that there are a bunch of tiny microcontroller boards with USB ports. < 1254426815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, for example: gumstix, BeagleBoard. < 1254426847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeagleBoard is 3x3" is too big; ais523 says the gumstix are a bit fragile, i.e. not too sturdily built, but they're really tiny (smaller than a pack of gum) so they'd fit nicely. < 1254426874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question is: Are those USB ports host ports or gadget ports? < 1254426878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Gumstix_oconnor.JPG; the expansion board to the right has a USB port, I think. < 1254426893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Really have no clue. That right-side one looks complicated enough to be the more powerful of those, though. < 1254426950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those programmable thingsies do tend to support host mode, since it's really pretty much the point that you can plug USB devices into them. < 1254426988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, is the gadget mode just to plug the microcontroller into something and have it act as a USB device? < 1254427030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Nokia's previous tablets (N810 and whatever they were) also support host mode (so you can plug in, say, a keyboard) but the N900 at least officially doesn't. :/ < 1254427062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a lot of Spectrum games use a joystick, don't they? < 1254427122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know about 3G modem stick programming; they implement the USB "CDC" class, but I think they usually speak PPP over whatever is there to do the actual IP traffic. < 1254427150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPPoE, then. < 1254427179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you have Ethernet in all this? < 1254427229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, crap, I thought RS232 was that standard for Ethernet. < 1254427232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ports, that is < 1254427245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RJ45 in fact, or rather 8P8C. < 1254427263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's easy enough to do PPPoSerial, wouldn't it be? < 1254427303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. You just have to convert from serial to the USB serial stuff. (Or directly from whatever you want to do over the extension bus into USB serial transfers.) < 1254427322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vice-versa. < 1254427355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, this 3G stick I have shows up as two serial ports. < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option 1-5:1.0: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb 1-5: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB0 < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option 1-5:1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb 1-5: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB1 < 1254427498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, now taking bets as to what sort of battery life it'll get. < 1254427505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet 4-5 hours. < 1254427507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 3. < 1254427530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's underpowered, but we didn't really have as much extremely-low-power-usage tech then. < 1254427604 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254427696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that you need to do something for the "disk drive" too, you might pick one of those SoC-style chips; you could connect a regular USB-interfaced flash drive and the USB 3G stick into the USB interface on it, and have the CPU part do both the spectrum tape drive emulation (those things generally have the necessary A/D and D/A converters to do audio) as well as whatever custom protocol you need over the extension bus (just wire some GPIO pins to it). < 1254427710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, I was about to say something about the disk. < 1254427741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no protocol required, I think; just do something like "read (large number)-fileno". < 1254427753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then "read (large number)" is a program that prints out filename<->number mappings or something. < 1254427766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it might be more convenient to do it over the bus. < 1254427814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's nothing more complex than converting bits to audio and vice versa, isn't it < 1254427817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1254427823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is it < 1254427838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you store the spectrum tape images in a suitably "raw" format, I guess it's pretty simple. < 1254427865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX *did* have a joystick, right? < 1254427875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be useful for gopher-browsing (I'm sure it can handle *that*) < 1254427894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, not really, considering the list-of-links format. Still. < 1254427914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very familiar with the device, but the WP page mentions a joystick interface as one of the things you could plug in the extension bus. < 1254427948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the connectors on that thing are limited to audio-in/audio-out (for the tape), the TV-compatible video out, and then the extension bus for everything else. < 1254427963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some games used a joystick. < 1254427972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, could do that as a trackball type thing. < 1254427975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ZX Interface 1 add-on module included 8 KB of ROM, an RS-232 serial port, a proprietary LAN interface (called ZX Net), and an interface for the connection of up to eight ZX Microdrives – somewhat unreliable but speedy tape-loop cartridge storage devices released in July 1983." < 1254427986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254427994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ZX Net" sounds so very popular. < 1254427995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt the disk drive, it'd clearly be far more retro if we used real tapes. < 1254428028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can carry an old WalkMan around to go with your Port-a-Spectrum. < 1254428047 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254428052 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1254428066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254428074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're discussing making the ZX Spectrum into a laptop. < 1254428082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, with the tape drive included, of course < 1254428119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't know; in one sense it would be somehow inherently funny to have a tied-to-it-with-a-cable add-on like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SONY_WM-D6C.jpg < 1254428121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the bit near the screen where the extra stuff is, a horizontal (i.e. not sticking up) tape slot, and some buttons depthwards (i.e., going further to the screen, to save space) < 1254428127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even says "professional" there. < 1254428135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: True. :P < 1254428138 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... didn't someone make a speccy laptop in the 90's? < 1254428167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Two people have ripped out the innards and put a PC in there; one person did it to a laptop to have a screen and such. < 1254428191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know of any actual Spectrum laptops. Besides, we're adding 3G internet and a USB disk-based tape drive to this thing. < 1254428213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus an 11" 1024x768 screen! Admittedly only displaying 256x192. < 1254428230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an approximate metric buttload of spectrum clones, it does not sound completely unlikely that someone has made a portable model too. < 1254428231 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254428266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only counts if it retains the same general form factor of the original speccy, imo. :P < 1254428269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Cute. < 1254428273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254428318 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Sam Coupe, and a Speccy +3 < 1254428348 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I just connect my computer directly to the cable modem? < 1254428361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The +3 makes it sound like a roguelike/RPG weapon. < 1254428376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Because then you'd have to do routing in software. < 1254428393 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't give two **** about the other computers on the network < 1254428404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you fail < 1254428408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what routing is < 1254428432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why all the speccies after the first were so ugly. < 1254428450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/Spectrum/zxspectrum_48k.jpg vs http://www.old-computers.com/MUSEUM/photos/sinclair_zx-spectrum-p3_1.jpg < 1254428475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, generally the cable modems I've seen have supported a reasonably "direct" USB connection. (Though I don't know whether they pretend to be a standard USB Ethernet device, or just include some custom drivers.) < 1254428515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's winmodems. < 1254428524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cable modems generally plug into routers. :P < 1254428528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, cable modems. < 1254428539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Aight then. < 1254428544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually have cable. < 1254428583 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a Jupiter Ace laptop. :-) < 1254428607 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spectrum had 3" or 3.5" disk drives. It's be handy to include those on the portable. < 1254428608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modems rented by the local cable TV company here -- well, some models, at least -- do support connecting over USB; not sure how widespread that is. (And it's also really buggy; they do recommend doing it over Ethernet if the computer in question has a network interface.) < 1254428679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: But it already has a wonderful USB-stick-based solid state drive thingy! < 1254428690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even attempt to play a song you put on it. :P < 1254428694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'll emulate the tape drive.) < 1254428715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not sure the speccy actually has audio. < 1254428722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a beeper. < 1254428726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very fancy. < 1254428730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1254428734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could decode the wav and record it to the tape as audio; that basically counts as playing. < 1254428740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it'd just be saved as garbage. < 1254428792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the beeper will have to be neutered and redirected to the microcontroller so it can have a headphone slot. < 1254428801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falling back to the beeper, of course. < 1254428805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if that's too hard, a mini speaker. < 1254429022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should port Maniac Mansion to the speccy. :P < 1254429100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/MSWindows Oh gawd. < 1254429220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm pretty sure the speccy has enough power to talk PPP over serial, get TCP/IP working, get DNS working, connect to Freenode and chat on IRC. < 1254429317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, someone's broken the udev on my desktop. It has / on /dev/md0, and /dev/md0 gets auto-assembled just fine, but udev doesn't feel like making the /dev/disk/by-uuid/xxx link, so since the grub config uses (by default) the "root=UUID=xxx" form, it doesn't find the root fs to mount. < 1254429363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anyone agree that the speccy could do that? < 1254429365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1254429460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it sounds perfectly reasonable. Though I wouldn't expect too high data transfer rates. < 1254429479 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to watch The Wall < 1254429484 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 25MHz Z80 upgrade available for the Speccy, and a 4MB memory board < 1254429533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IRC would work fine at 1KiB/s. < 1254429538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two full-length IRC lines. < 1254429554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even 512B/s; full-length lines aren't so common. < 1254429564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not less, for a semi-popular channel. < 1254429584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the screen res it'd be best for places like here, and would work fine with ~300B/s. < 1254429588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Eh. < 1254429590 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a portable spectrum, you could just use ZXDS for the Nintendo DS. :-) < 1254429595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs more than 48KiB of RAM? < 1254429612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the actual Speccy is so cute. And the DS is so not retro. :P Also, rael keyboard. < 1254429614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*real < 1254429680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 with 64KiB can run a full graphical multitasking OS with a web browser (Contiki), and it only has a 1.02MHz 6510 (or 0.985MHz in PAL regions), so I'm sure a Z80 at 3.5MHz with 48KiB of RAM can handle it. < 1254429691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it = IRC) < 1254430042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 has rather more graphical prowess, though. < 1254430043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also musical. < 1254430102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less portable form-factor, since I guess you'd want to have exactly the original, iconic shape. < 1254430133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's plenty of C64 laptops. < 1254430140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX is far cuter. < 1254430149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's more nettop-like. < 1254430150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, more of an underdog. < 1254430198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't you mean netbook? < 1254430209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nettop is like that silly Linutop thing. < 1254430215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1254430220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know the modern lingo. < 1254430235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have known that distinction. < 1254430236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254430250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'll certainly be a nettop, but I doubt that includes HTML over HTTP. < 1254430254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, HTTP is fine; HTML less so. < 1254430261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it can probably render simple stuff. < 1254430278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read http://robotwisdom.com/ on your ZX Spectrum today! < 1254430337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, robot wisdom is dead? < 1254430341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated 2006. < 1254430342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Last < 1254430365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a portable Altair 8800, but that'd just be strange. (I guess in that particular case you'd just run an emulator on a DS or something.) < 1254430378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flippin' switches 'n shit. < 1254430406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it'd attract some attention in a cafe. < 1254430436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is that a bomb? POLICE! POLICE! HE'S GOT A BOMB! AAAAAAAA!" < 1254430448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, no, it's an Altair-" "-an Altair bomb, riiight. *taze*" < 1254430456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next day it's on reddit! < 1254430463 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Esoteric language for the DS :-) Someone implemented OISC < 1254430529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah - "# Robot Wisdom Weblog, since Oct06 continued as part of the Robot Wisdom auxiliary, since Aug09 continued as part of one-bit RWx-auxiliary blog" < 1254430551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "one-bit" thing seems to be a shared google reader items that looks like a link blog. < 1254430553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14569541748422553908 < 1254430590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather less simple HTML-wise. < 1254430733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://c64vsspectrum.com/ Can't we all just get along? < 1254430770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally no fair, he just compares them to see which has better games. NO. FAIR. < 1254430796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't even like Manic Miner: http://c64vsspectrum.com/M.html < 1254431309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm pretty sure that Contiki's web browser is about on par with Lynx. So, yeah, rather basic. :) < 1254431362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Contiki-avr.png < 1254431364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem so. < 1254431381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am at least imagining that you'd be basically running apps about on par with Contiki's on this, if you don't bother porting the whole of Contiki) < 1254431386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That screenshot there, apart frmo the high resolution, can totally be reproduced with a speccy, I'm sure.) < 1254431390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from "processes". < 1254431401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but Contiki doesn't exactly do much. < 1254431415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The display is kinda the bottleneck. < 1254431417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It's one of the simplest OSes I know of. < 1254431420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much you can fit. < 1254431442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, if you draw your own text you should be able to fit a few lines of IRC. < 1254431457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI is an optional feature of Contiki. < 1254431470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1254431475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1254431488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you can have the browser without the GUI. < 1254431620 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254431968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a fun idea! < 1254431977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows 95 work in VirtualBox? Let's find out! To the piratescope! < 1254432138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a win98 VirtualBox box somewhere; don't think I've tried plain '95. < 1254432145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I install via floppy or CD? < 1254432151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is less annoying, but floppy is more lollerific. < 1254432161 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested it in Virtual PC, I don't know about VirtualBox < 1254432186 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fun complaining to people that their sites are broken in IE 3.0 < 1254432196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254432224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, VirtualBox's UI is appealing on Linux. < 1254432237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My day just keeps getting better and better. < 1254432290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox uses Qt 4. And it doesn't suck horribly. < 1254432295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice property, that. < 1254432307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vomits at VMware Server for a bit < 1254432317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; Qt 4's font rendering hints too much vs GTK here, but otherwise it looks identical. < 1254432322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QGtkStyle isn't horrific, then. < 1254432344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many megs do you think I should use? < 1254432353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32? < 1254432363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give it a whole two gigs, but really now. < 1254432396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 kB. < 1254432409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that's enough for everyone. < 1254432420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95? Give it 64 MB and watch it never, ever swap. < 1254432430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what VirtualBox recommended, but that's so... unrealistic... < 1254432433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you use loadlin on it) < 1254432455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decent amount of 95 machines had 64 MB of RAM. < 1254432466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it not do the same with 32? < 1254432474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About as well. < 1254432483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few things would actually use the extra RAM. < 1254432489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, 64 it is. It's just that the minimum was 4MiB, and yeah, that's really sub-optimal, but... < 1254432506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, this is going to run with 2.16GHz of Core 2 power; it's not gonna be realistic. < 1254432513 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1254432519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMs are such fun; every OS you can imagine in a few clix. < 1254432525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. VMs + piracy. < 1254432550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2GB HD should do nicely, methinks? < 1254432565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly. < 1254432581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll use a CD to avoid changing all the damn floppies. < 1254432586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old 95 machine had 8 GB, but it was quite silly. And I don't think that ever got used. < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Win95.iso 73 Mb" < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Microsoft Windows 95 operating system.iso 581 Mb" < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1254432611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1254432612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1254432613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * msw95-repoc.iso 589 Mb" < 1254432637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an odd disrepancy. < 1254432643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discrepancy < 1254432705 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1254432707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST < 1254432708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRITE < 1254432710 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE!!!! < 1254432711 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAA < 1254432712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the layotu of the edit-VM page is much better on Linux. < 1254432714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Fuck off. < 1254432716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*layout < 1254432735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hey, I'm refining my "be crass without passing my conscious subsystem" code. Sorry about that nooga.) < 1254432753 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1254432763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I really typed that automatically. < 1254432809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you think is the difference between the 73 and 589 versions? < 1254432812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might be fake... < 1254432820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm going to assume the 73 is fake. < 1254432832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that Microsoft filled that disc. < 1254432836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but consider that 95 fit on a few floppies. < 1254432838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1254432858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :581 vs 589... well, the # Microsoft Windows 95 operating system also comse with an ISO burner, serial keys for the burner, and a "READ ME". < 1254432860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll go with that one. < 1254432863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msn client is heavier than w95 < 1254432869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irritating that I have to download so much; oh well. < 1254432918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 hours remaining. < 1254432920 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget to play Hover < 1254432923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that speeds up. < 1254432923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it did. < 1254432929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over 200KiB/s. < 1254432930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than an hour remaining! < 1254432931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows 95 CD came with more features and a metric fuckton of videos on the disc... < 1254432956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why the fuck did it have music videos, anyways?) < 1254432989 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can create x-rays using my hands :D < 1254432992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tom.whitwell.googlepages.com/mssound1.mp3 < 1254433010 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cto http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/10/video-the-scotc/ < 1254433015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds so much better than the 98 version... Yay Eno. < 1254433071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I also like Windows 2000. Nobody really appreciates it. < 1254433075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if that's not 95 OSR/1 or greater, then you'll need to get a copy of IE to get a TCP/IP stack. < 1254433078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 95 didn't have serial keys, did it? < 1254433086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I recall. < 1254433107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh; do you think in the 589 one, the extra 8 is OSR/1? < 1254433113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it shrunk. < 1254433122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe*? < 1254433142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter; this one is the fastest. < 1254433148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one doesn't have any seeders, just 14 leechers. < 1254433152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't going to, you know, work. < 1254433161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSR/2.1 and OSR/2.5 added the USB stack and FAT32... < 1254433192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT 16 is perfectly acceptable; I only have a 2 gig drive in this thing. :P < 1254433195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I do appreciate the 2k. I stuck with it a long time on that secondary Windows box. < 1254433217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hooray for you, then. < 1254433232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also added MMX support and 686 support with that. < 1254433245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMX? Psht, I have 3DNow!. < 1254433265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says on the little sticker. Pentium III MMX+ 3DNow! < 1254433274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MMX < 1254433278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3DNow! is a superet of MMX. ;) < 1254433287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I have more than MMX, you see. :P < 1254433287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A superego of MMX. < 1254433293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superid. < 1254433310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you accidentally the s < 1254433320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, yes I. < 1254433326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/PentiumMMX-presslogo.jpg < 1254433330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See it! Hear it! Experience it! < 1254433373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'm uploading this torrent at 0KiB/s. < 1254433376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope they don't mind. :P < 1254433378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice ratio of 0. < 1254433386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So strange that torrents actually work. < 1254433411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should try 4.3BSD. < 1254433426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my brain didn't register that I had a VM and could download operating systems until a few minutes ago... < 1254433480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a very shiny sticker that came with the Pentium 233 MMX I bought, though I guess it was a bit less colorful. < 1254433516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet my father's workstation-tower-sized Pentium 4 powerhouse is still running Windows Me. < 1254433525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing was ridiculously stable. < 1254433529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never crashed once, apparently. < 1254433538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any program. < 1254433548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really weird, given Me's reputation; and even my own experiences with it. < 1254433564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, exactly. I was using Me at the time too and it was unstable as fuck. But then my hardware was really bad. < 1254433569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must have befriended the magical Windows Me fairy. < 1254433578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those workstation towers are so tall. < 1254433607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The floor of that room is filled with cables and everything around the computer is musical equipment; quite a lot of it. It's quite the sight. < 1254433629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it in years, though, so I don't know if it's actually still like that. < 1254433634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the p233MMX was close to the fastest thing on the "regular" consumer market when I bought it; such speed, such power; it was really quite a "rush". (Is that the word?) < 1254433652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium H: for when you need your hit. < 1254433654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it lasted very long before the Pentium II came along. < 1254433872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, VirtualBox doesn't seem to have an "emulate a floppy drive with nothing in it" option. < 1254433908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1997-08 for the "Tillamook" 233 MHz MMX; one of the last models, though apparently they did release 266 MHz and 300 MHz variants in 1998 and 1999. And the 333 MHz Pentium II in January 1998; so it was fast for a whole 4-5 months before becoming obsolete. < 1254433914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still measured line width in micrometres instead of nanometres back then. (Okay, so 0.25 µm is 250 nm, but it's still reported in µm in Wikipedia.) < 1254433915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone knwo how to do that? < 1254433926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1254433973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it with VBoxManage, at least. < 1254433995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "VBoxManage modifyvm --floppy empty" < 1254434016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it then looks like in the GUI. < 1254434040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Mount Floppy Drive < 1254434050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which apparently indeed does not distinguish between "empty" and "disabled". (I'm not sure which one it does if you just uncheck the mount floppy drive box.) < 1254434050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( ) Host Floppy Drive < 1254434060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( ) Image File < 1254434076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254434082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gives an error. < 1254434098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the Floppy page, Floppy image file is not selected" < 1254434210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"40 minutes remaining"; that got worse. < 1254434218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite... Dumb. < 1254434271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254434319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Windows 95, you'll probably want to the same thing that was recommended for win98 guests -- to run rain20 from http://www.benchtest.com/downloads/index.html since win95 won't automatically execute HLT instructions when idle, causing quite a lot of CPU use for VirtualBox. < 1254434329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally the verb, too. < 1254434357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who cares. :P < 1254434359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I might. < 1254434383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Windows 95 always uses all your CPU? < 1254434390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; energy saving is for hippies. < 1254434407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those chips must have run hot. < 1254434437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one for DOS too somewhere; it was really quite a good idea for VirtualBox-enabled DOS use, since 100 % CPU load makes the fans in this box a lot more audible. < 1254434472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosidle210.zip, right. < 1254434478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell if 100% CPU is being used by ear, but I normally don't *notice* it for a few minutes. < 1254434484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite sublte. < 1254434484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subtle < 1254434488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear them spin down once I stop it, though. < 1254434548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is far from subtle; will have to consider the noise side a bit more when the next hardware upgrade year rolls along. < 1254434611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Exception: FreeDOS. < 1254434627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... I think FreeDOS just already includes that, though.) < 1254434633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was lucky of me to jump on the Core 2 bandwagon so quickly; this December 2006 machine is still nice and fast. < 1254434648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all I've done is upgrade the ram from 1GiB to 2.5GiB; I should have got it with 2GiB in the first place. < 1254434665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was December 2008, so even the 1GiB lasted me fine for quite a while. < 1254434676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I only upgraded from Tiger to Leopard in February... 2009. < 1254434680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It came out late 2007.) < 1254434705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-08-07 HLT in the DOS idle loop in FreeDOS SVN. Or some-such. < 1254434949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: square root of minus garfield o_O <-- yeah < 1254434997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, VirtualBox doesn't seem to have an "emulate a floppy drive with nothing in it" option. <-- eh? < 1254435005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, eh? < 1254435007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if no floppy is inserted there will be no floppy? < 1254435014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No floppy in the drive. < 1254435018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, eject the floppy < 1254435018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The drive certainly responds to stuff, though. < 1254435029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the VM edit < 1254435032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when booted < 1254435049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want this new VM to have a floppy drive. I do not want it to have any floppies in. < 1254435057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um my laptop is packed down in my backpack for tomorrow so can't check. No virtualbox on desktop < 1254435073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm iirc there is always a floppy drive < 1254435083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there? Aight then. < 1254435087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *IIRC* < 1254435101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so double check by booting some iso in it and see if it is true < 1254435105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No biggie. I doubt 95 will install to a floppiless system anyway, so we'll see. < 1254435125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets the alarm clock for 06:15 < 1254435133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy person. < 1254435152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even DOS will run just fine on a floppiless system... < 1254435161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1254435178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine Windows being *less* flexible. < 1254435179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Someone should make a bloated Microsoft DOS "distro" with a ton of stuff, and have it fill up a CD. :P) < 1254435192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows have TSR? < 1254435194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Crazy person. <-- about 06:15? < 1254435194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIDN'T THINK SO < 1254435208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows let you access all the hardware directly without any setup? < 1254435208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIDN'T THINK SO < 1254435213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254435246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes and yes. (note: Windows non-NT was quite screwy) < 1254435257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. :P < 1254435265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, just need to remove the frozen water from the car windows tomorrow before leaving. Temperature during night is less than 0 C after all.. < 1254435285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I would set the clock for 06:20 < 1254435325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy. Person. < 1254435338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running DOS programs in Windows was not just mere DOS emulation. If you tried accessing the hardware directly from the DOS box, then DOS would go full-screen. ... Meaning that the Windows kernel would start acting as a TSR for interrupt handling and do nothing else. < 1254435349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yah, I know that much. < 1254435352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why Alley Cat works! < 1254435353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254435382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TSRs would still terminate and stay resident. < 1254435385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Crazy uni with stuff starting at 08:00 (and I need to commute...) < 1254435411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is that how loadlin works? Windows steps out, loadlin dismantles all of DOS while it's not running (and thus Windows) and then loads Linux, now having complete control over the hardware like a bootloader? < 1254435411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I seem to recall that in order to access CDs with DOS programs, you had to use mscdex, even in Windows...) < 1254435416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254435420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254435456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could only be cooler if it saved the Windows currently running to the Linux disk, so you could have "Linux" and "Windows" icons on the opposite desktops. < 1254435457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So is that how loadlin works? Windows steps out, loadlin dismantles all of DOS while it's not running (and thus Windows) and then loads Linux, now having complete control over the hardware like a bootloader? <-- hm... loadlin worked inside win9x? < 1254435463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254435468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because DOS programs did. < 1254435490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could only be cooler if it saved the Windows currently running to the Linux disk, so you could have "Linux" and "Windows" icons on the opposite desktops. <-- the linux -> windows way could maybe be done with kexec actually < 1254435538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd basically be a case of "kexec a kernel that wipes all traces of Linux and then bootloads Windows". < 1254435543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving state though... < 1254435549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be great. < 1254435557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like fast user switching, except OSs, not users, and slow. :P < 1254435559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah... you could make it suspend to disk for linux at least < 1254435571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about windows < 1254435578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows can hibernate, but the problem is resuming. < 1254435585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1254435585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make loadlin suspend Windows to disk itself. < 1254435591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's the idea. < 1254435594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it'd work < 1254435595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes... < 1254435596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1254435597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is < 1254435599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loadwin < 1254435605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1254435607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it'd work < 1254435615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be quite slow, but it'd work fine < 1254435615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd just be a kexec call. < 1254435621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1254435626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be so much fun. < 1254435634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for linux the best way is s2disk. I think loadlin could even boot from resume even < 1254435637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicker than dual-booting, at least. :P < 1254435642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err scratch one "even" < 1254435653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: loadlin just loads the kernel like normal, so it can do the regular resume stuff. < 1254435675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, as long as you can provide a command line like resume=/dev/sda5 or whatever < 1254435681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254435694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION have never used loadlin < 1254435699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, I should do this with my Win95 setup once it's installed. < 1254435705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *has >_< < 1254435717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I don't has >_< < 1254435720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadlin takes as its first argument the vmlinuz and the rest is the kernel command line. < 1254435722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not have, has. < 1254435732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: loadlin could theoretically boot, say, FreeBSD, right? < 1254435733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254435739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and parsed as LILO does with regard to vga=) < 1254435741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1254435743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, GRUB can, and it's not too far off. < 1254435767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, you could modify loadlin to run GRUB; all it does is dismantle the DOS around it, and then you're in boot-up land. < 1254435776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you patched it to handle BSD kernels or made a small stub "kernel" in Linux kernel format to load FreeBSD, sure. < 1254435779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt this just does a regular "load multiboot kernel" kind of thing < 1254435800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It does a regular "load Linux kernel" kind of thing. < 1254435808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just modify it to load GRUB with a specified configuration file to immediately load the other OS. < 1254435820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's also quite doable. < 1254435820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well is that "load any multiboot kernel" or "load just linux kernel"? < 1254435821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, you can switch to any OS without rebooting. < 1254435833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then writing an equivalent for Linux and BSDs would be trivial. < 1254435836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This'd be great, actually. < 1254435838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Linux uses its own kernel format. < 1254435843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzImage. < 1254435858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's kinda hard to hibernate, then boot into another OS, with today's OSs. < 1254435867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? I thought grub just loaded multiboot ELF images? < 1254435871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this'd save a few seconds. < 1254435872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254435878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. GRUB *also* supports that. < 1254435886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, aha < 1254435897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, bsd will be harder for loadlin < 1254435898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Xen is the only mainstream thing to use Multiboot. < 1254435902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you hacked up all your OSs to boot in like 15 seconds (Ubuntu is getting 5 seconds on an SSD for 9.10, so)... < 1254435906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant OS switching! < 1254435923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Multiboot is about the only useful thing to come out of HURD yet. < 1254435933 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love instant OS switching < 1254435950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "load any from win9x" would be easy. and "load any from linux" too (kexec). But for BSD hm...? < 1254435952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, VMware's hypervisor also uses it. < 1254435957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure BSD has some sort of kexec thing. < 1254435970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lots of small OS projects do too < 1254435976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You could even set up IRC clients on both; they'd reconnect when resumed, so you'd only ever lose IRC connection for, oh, 20-30 seconds. < 1254435976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mainstream though < 1254435993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what? < 1254435996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot? < 1254436006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1254436013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot is like 5-10 lines of assembly. If you're C-friendly (and thus can use GRUB), it's the obvious thing to do. < 1254436031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C-friendly (and thus can use GRUB)" <--- eh? < 1254436043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB is written in C. < 1254436061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing, e.g. ehirdOS, you won't want to use it. < 1254436066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Multiboot is pretty much written assuming you'll be writing the kernel entry point in C. < 1254436072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254436076 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would ehirdOS be written in? < 1254436081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, assembly. < 1254436082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing on to C. < 1254436089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, yeah. < 1254436090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just because you don't write in a language yourself doesn't mean you feel unable to use a program written in said lang does it? < 1254436092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Assembly, maybe Forth, and Lisp or Smalltalk. < 1254436109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd explain why using GRUB would be The Wrong Thing, but it'd be tedious because, you know, it's you. < 1254436116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think he wants to deal with details like C structs. < 1254436116 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to learn Lisp < 1254436130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried once, and proceeded to forget absolutely everything < 1254436136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same reason I wouldn't use freetype or anything else C. < 1254436140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GRUB passes the entry point a C struct with a bunch of pointers in it...) < 1254436147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm fair enough. A bit of a pain to construct an ELF header manually I guess < 1254436152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C is The Wrong Thing, and it infects things using it with The Wrong Things. < 1254436162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dogmatic much? < 1254436173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254436178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Sgeo_; I've just used C software a lot. < 1254436203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it seems "natural" for someone used to the idiocies of low level programming, redundant memory/disk address spaces and oh-so-much more. < 1254436218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't multiboot give you 32-bit at entry? < 1254436226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not particularly interested in rebutting that at the moment, having more fun things to do like try Windows 95. < 1254436228 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I learn Common Lisp, or Scheme? < 1254436228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254436230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it less of a pain to set up protected mode < 1254436238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no. < 1254436239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe. < 1254436247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does multiboot work on non-x86 then? < 1254436253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Start with R5RS (not R6RS; just don't use PLT Scheme and you'll be fine) Scheme. < 1254436276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you hate it because you're a stupid loser poopyhead, try Common Lisp (implementation SBCL). < 1254436280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue what any of that means < 1254436285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Multiboot 2.0 which will support that doesn't exist yet. < 1254436287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not surprising. < 1254436288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for example, 16-bit platforms? Or ones that start natively in 64-bit mode? Or something strange like IA64 < 1254436296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1254436299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB is x86 only. < 1254436302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Multiboot is x86 only. < 1254436318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2.0 is portable, as is Multiboot 2.0. < 1254436321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are works in progress. < 1254436329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are vaporware < 1254436346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 1 has been "dead" for like 10 years < 1254436347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 2 is the best thing ever hur hur garbleblargle < 1254436347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Win95 downloaderated. < 1254436348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2 is in beta ATM. < 1254436350 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX was considered vaporware once < 1254436358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now should I be rude and cut of this seeding. < 1254436360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1254436380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and works just fine) < 1254436429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 1 stagnated because of grub 2 < 1254436442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1254436477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As we all know,Microsoft has never released the Windows 95 operating system which was bootable from the CD-ROM disk and which you could install by using just the CD-ROM disk.You would always < 1254436477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need those boot diskettes to boot from the Microsoft Windows 95 CD-ROM disk and to install Microsoft Windows 95 operating system..." < 1254436478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware. < 1254436506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's a patched .iso to handle that for you. < 1254436508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How convenient. < 1254436518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-The size of the hard disk drive on which you are planning to install Microsoft Windows 95 < 1254436519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : operating system must be at least 9 GB in size < 1254436519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254436553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, this should do. < 1254436554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot! < 1254436577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Starting Windows 98". This thing uses 98 to boot 95. < 1254436588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254436606 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254436607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 GB? O_o < 1254436608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1254436622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I need to do X:\SETUP.EXE and it'll start the Windows 95 installer. < 1254436626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing itself fits in around 200 MB < 1254436630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at a Windows 98 DOS prompt :P < 1254436641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used that Oak Corporation CD driver; I remember that! < 1254436662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I need to make an MS-DOS boot partition to set up Windows. < 1254436680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have fdisk! So yay. < 1254436685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your computer has a disk larger than 512 MB". Yes, turn on large disk support. :P < 1254436701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently some versions of Windows 95 aren't compatible with that. < 1254436711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it just means "use FAT32". < 1254436712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1254436759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oak Technology, not corporation. < 1254436817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It formatted the 2GB C: in less than a second. :P < 1254436858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorah! http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-10/windows-95.png < 1254436897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if the 30-60 min estimate is accurate < 1254436904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1254436918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll set a stopwatch off once I get to the actual installing meat. < 1254436931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, uh, just note down the time. < 1254436942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I accept the license agreement. Not. :P < 1254436957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it lets you install somewhere else than C:\WINDOWS. < 1254436978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it has its own Portable install configuration for laptops. < 1254436997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It didn't have serials. But it had a Certificate of Authenticity. < 1254437001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just a smaller serial key. < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try this < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22901-oem-0009093-18985" < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Google. < 1254437079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aand it works. < 1254437081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaand < 1254437106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Windows 95, I have both a Network Adapter and a Sound, MIDI, or Video Capture Card. < 1254437118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pointer flickers a remarkable amount. < 1254437132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45 < 1254437136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started checking for hardware < 1254437158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a hands-off part, so I'll include this in the total and just add a bit to account for them adding user input to the time.) < 1254437215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1254437226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 47 now. < 1254437228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So about two minutes. < 1254437245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, a startup disk to start my computer and run diagnostic programs if I have trouble starting Windows! < 1254437246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. < 1254437257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:47 < 1254437260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying files. < 1254437265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17% already < 1254437267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27% < 1254437273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is going to be quick. :P < 1254437287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flashing all these marketing screens, but I can barely read two paragraphs before they flicker away. < 1254437298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, they had Microsoft Exchange then. < 1254437301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And The Microsoft Network was an ISP. < 1254437311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 to 60 min = 1x to 8x CD-ROM drive? < 1254437315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1254437316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1254437319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's copied the files. < 1254437327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that took under two minutes. < 1254437334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now going to restart and finish Setup! < 1254437355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; it thinks I have a floppy in the drive because the startup disk thing is emulating one. < 1254437358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay, man. Restart. < 1254437378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, was that a boot failure? < 1254437381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just hard-reset. < 1254437392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1254437395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hands-off now. < 1254437401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Getting ready to run Windows 95 for the first time..." < 1254437407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're back in Setup, still hands off. < 1254437427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not now. < 1254437427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to provide the computer and workgroup names for the network! < 1254437442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer name: Eno < 1254437450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workgroup: 95 < 1254437467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Description: Windows 95 < 1254437477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it wants the Windows 95 CD-ROM. < 1254437482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope the boot-up CD-ROM suffices. < 1254437506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I just need to locate the Windows 95 files on it. < 1254437512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a file browser, sigh. < 1254437515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mounts the iso < 1254437538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X:\WIN95\. Simple enough. Why is it X:\? < 1254437559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1254437566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't find netapi.dll, i.e. the networking stuff. < 1254437570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to download IE or whatever. < 1254437630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mapi32... < 1254437637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: think I should just start over and omit the networking stuff? < 1254437695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1254437815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's try that again. < 1254437820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Setup. < 1254437861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it doesn't ask about the network this time. < 1254437862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why. < 1254437866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254437869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analyzing computer. < 1254437931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's working now? < 1254437964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254437965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254437976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nah; it just doesn't realise it has a network now for some reason. < 1254437989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254437991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254437992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying files. < 1254438071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254438072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254438089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254438091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting. < 1254438093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's failed. < 1254438097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard rebooting. < 1254438110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off, kinda. < 1254438117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, really hands off. < 1254438119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's booting Setup. < 1254438123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows protection error. < 1254438124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh. < 1254438130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart. < 1254438142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, again. < 1254438147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck shitting bullhorns. < 1254438169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't like AC97. < 1254438237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1254438239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win95 does not usually work on a cpu faster than 300 mhz... < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a patch to get it to work... but I doubt it would work on a 2.8ghz < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine. < 1254438257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try installing the AMD high speed processor patch." < 1254438258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1254438271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please note that the fix described, < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also mentioned by Ben Myers in another reply in this thread, does NOT work on < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 Gold or Win95A, which is what you have according to your description < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254438308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, I'm fucked at the momnet. < 1254438312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moment < 1254438347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192841 < 1254438347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254438368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try it a few times more first < 1254438514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command prompt works, so let's try running this patch. < 1254438818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, win /d:fmsvx gets in < 1254438827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(every troubleshooting option apart from networking) < 1254438858 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254438891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feast your eyes on the not-yet-fully-installed Windows 95 in safe mode! http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-10/windows-95-safe-mode.png < 1254438902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be using DOS filenames. < 1254438940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Access floppy drive = BSOD! < 1254438949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254438954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows freezes if you continue from it, naturally. < 1254439151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 32-bit seems to be what breaks it. < 1254439165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. < 1254439193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. Just 16-bit-disk-accses safe mode works. < 1254439194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*access < 1254439256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And exploring A: works. < 1254439288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update complete, bringing with it spam ISP links. < 1254439294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not surprised, Microsoft? < 1254439324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's try and boot into normal Windows 95, then run Setup to fix my awful mistakes. < 1254439326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, did that work? < 1254439339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's setting up my hardware, apparently. < 1254439355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And running Setup! < 1254439356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254439361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSOD. < 1254439367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they were right about 30-60 minutes... < 1254439371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1254439373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can continue through the BSOD < 1254439377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254439380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254439401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebooting. < 1254439404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you messing with Win95 anyway < 1254439421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter Network Password! < 1254439426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on, installation probably finished. < 1254439437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why not? It's not totally alien and DOSlike like 3.11, but it's not all modern and icky and internetty like 98. < 1254439457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no pretences of being a "real" OS, yet it has so much gooey GUI. < 1254439465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People typically have reasons for installing old OSes < 1254439467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, in that background you can see one of Microsoft's split-keyboard-in-one-unit things. < 1254439477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have VM, bittorrent sites, will install OSs. < 1254439486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1254439488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skips networking < 1254439491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there we go. < 1254439492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a split keyboard < 1254439494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All installed, booted up. < 1254439509 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do fully split, wireless keyboards exist? < 1254439510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Tour wants the silly CD-ROM. :P < 1254439510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with NT 3.1 < 1254439518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Not wireless. < 1254439523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's basically 3.11. < 1254439529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Why do you need wireless? :P < 1254439532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.51* < 1254439541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because it's fully split < 1254439545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: so? < 1254439549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What happened to my program groups?" "What happened to File Manager?" --Windows Help < 1254439556 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kinesis sells a keyboard where the two halves are connected by a 20-inch cord. That's lame. < 1254439562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah, I see < 1254439565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, mount it on your chair :D < 1254439572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mount the cables on your chair's back < 1254439574 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20-inch is not long enough for that < 1254439580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big is your chair < 1254439586 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 20 inches < 1254439593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, dragging the scrollbar doesn't do anything until you leave go < 1254439601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics are very choppy. Did it really flicker this much? < 1254439606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even just moving the mouse. < 1254439614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icon on the desktop: "The Internet". < 1254439627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks Properties. Looks like IE. < 1254439634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens IE settings, I think. < 1254439636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 3, presumably. < 1254439653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1254439656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't install the sounds :( < 1254439679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, I have *four* floppy drives < 1254439721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, setup.exe runs fine on a booted 95 system < 1254439737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, explorer switches to list view if the folder has a lot of entries. < 1254439738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's clever. < 1254439879 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254440616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the 79MB one wasn't faked < 1254440620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the size of \win95 < 1254440787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has microsoft chat < 1254440797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, no < 1254440799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some telephone thing < 1254440834 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAILBOT READY TO OPERATE < 1254440837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMAND? < 1254440841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1254440844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1254440856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you succeeded at failing < 1254440857 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1254440858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're failbot < 1254440861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you failed at being failbot < 1254440875 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH! score! < 1254440922 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went exactly as i planned :D < 1254440948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it succeeded at going to plan? < 1254440951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were failbot! < 1254440965 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just pretending < 1254440978 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1254440991 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could write a failbot that fails at failing < 1254441029 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could also fail at failing at failing < 1254441032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1254441053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metafailbot i didn't like *barely avoids falling anvil* < 1254441054 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive failbot < 1254441055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd succeed at being xzibit, which isn't failing. < 1254441138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, I seem to have no audio drivers either. < 1254441141 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... what?! formal languages tomorrow at 8 in the morning :F < 1254441142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's get the internet on this thing. < 1254441181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't find the file on the CD-ROM; why am I surprised. < 1254441187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: I'm not. < 1254441231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1254441232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's looking in X: < 1254441235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my CD drive is now H: < 1254441247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada! < 1254441248 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird smileys < 1254441252 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like C: one < 1254441255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95 drive letters. :P < 1254441264 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like deeper :) backwards < 1254441290 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P: < 1254441301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unexpected error has occurred! < 1254441305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it ain't so, IE 3. < 1254441305 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254441311 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows :D < 1254441337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of forgive it; I *am* running it in a VM with modern hardware, after all. < 1254441369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An expected error has occurred! < 1254441372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This VGA driver is oh-so-very slow. < 1254441401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So... Win95 is 79mb, but it requires 9GB free? < 1254441402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1254441407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't. < 1254441409 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_ < 1254441415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1254441419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 9GB figure was included in the torrent's info file. < 1254441420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bullshit. < 1254441449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254441457 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember playing neverhood under 95 < 1254441461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's only using 115MB; I haven't got the system sounds, though, just the Microsoft Sound. Maybe because my audio doesn't work it decided not to copy them. < 1254441461 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a kid :D < 1254441462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1254441464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Neverhood < 1254441466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that game so much. < 1254441475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clayman ftw! < 1254441483 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, sleep < 1254441491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klaymen, you mean. < 1254441502 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254441508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up the guy behind it and Earthworm Jim a few years back; he's a crazy conservative Christian type. :( < 1254441522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;f < 1254441523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(USA-style Republican.) < 1254441541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway goodnight < 1254441547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad night! < 1254441548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254441550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night. < 1254441566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Say, it's possible IE 3 didn't do HTTP 1.1, isn't it? < 1254441576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Possible, sure. < 1254441583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< you can't hit the bottom-left corner to open the start menu < 1254441584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitt's law fail < 1254441647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have ipconfig or winipcfg... uh oh. < 1254441694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To Add/Remove Programs we go, to modify the system! < 1254441705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, Explorer and the Start Menu are quite nice in 95. < 1254441735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dicks the multimedia sound schemes < 1254441737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254441739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TICKS < 1254441745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sound recorder. < 1254441766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Volume Control... < 1254441831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find anything ethernetty, but we'll do that later. < 1254441862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254441866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't installed TCP/IP. < 1254441866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1254441935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting! < 1254441986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, 98 sucked a lot more than 95. < 1254442034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.11 for Workgroups RULZ < 1254442040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not rly. < 1254442046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG IT ROX UR SOX < 1254442055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been please waiting while my computer shuts down for a long time now, 95. < 1254442060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind if I reboot? < 1254442128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft < 1254442131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Windows 95 < 1254442134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Microsoft Internet Explorer < 1254442142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like what you've done to my splash screen, 95. < 1254442169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from a JScript compilation error, MSN is loading. < 1254442176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is teh ugly. < 1254442190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack.org, though, is beautiful! < 1254442199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grey background perfectly compliments the black logo. < 1254442239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to make the 95 VGA driver not horribly slow? Thought not. < 1254442471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good that the internet's working, though. < 1254442525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OF COURSE AC'97 won't work! < 1254442527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword '97. < 1254442573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION emulates a Soundblaster 16 instead < 1254442600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably a more suitable video driver than VGA. < 1254442616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it's in VirtualBox's guest additions, which *probably* don't support Windows 95... < 1254442630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a generic one. < 1254442633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254442634 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. some generic VESA driver. < 1254442634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1254442641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'll give that a try. < 1254442652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wow it's slow. Just shutting down takes forever to draw the screen-dimming checkerboard. < 1254442655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can watch it go by. < 1254442699 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254442760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the Gameport Joystick it found is... < 1254442774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no; don't tell me it can't find a file. < 1254442815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would help if I mounted the CD. < 1254442847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Qt isn't hinting more; it's just using a font one point size to small. Like that Grinch fellow. < 1254442854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hello there, frozen 95. < 1254442938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thrown into the 98 booter for the hacked 95 CD, and elects to boot windows with C:\win < 1254442966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, windows\win. < 1254442984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it can't start like that. < 1254442985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1254443083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand there's Eno's soothing tones. < 1254443220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Far as I can tell 95 doesn't have any VESA drivers! < 1254443226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have a selection of VGA ones, though, and an SVGA one. < 1254443244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's "Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (XGA)". < 1254443248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try SVGA, that should still be better. < 1254443264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatsabout that PCI XGA one? < 1254443265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's being exposed as PCI. < 1254443268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue < 1254443282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVGA it is. < 1254443285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHER HARDWARE CONFLICTS DUN DUN DUN < 1254443286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit < 1254443296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey an alert sound. It sucks. < 1254443306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95 is being annoyingly usable so far. < 1254443316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be all complicated and ancient so I can laugh at it. < 1254443357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it crashes like usual, so I'll reboot and it'll install it on start-up. < 1254443472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it failed at that; it can't find drivers for Unknown Device. < 1254443474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try again. < 1254443503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze < 1254443512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reboot < 1254443518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realise I didn't put the 98 disc in < 1254443519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in < 1254443526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot 95 < 1254443618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254443622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently using PCI/VGA. < 1254443627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try PCI/XGA. < 1254443659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apply, restart and here we go. < 1254443679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how 95 can restart without going through the BIOS. < 1254443702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the XGA driver isn't compatible, but it falled back. < 1254443708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you know, Xorg doesn't fall back. < 1254443728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will note that Xorg sucks. < 1254443729 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254443753 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible for something to do X where X is failing at X. < 1254443756 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, uh, wait. < 1254443774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand I can have 800x600 with 16 colours, plus change my font sizes. < 1254443842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works, but is just as slow. < 1254443996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I'm using a Pentium Pro. < 1254444265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode's java applet fails because there's no document.getElementById :) < 1254444327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JScript didn't support object literals, then... < 1254444456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC still supports Windows 95?!?!!?!?! < 1254444465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... < 1254444609 0 :ehird95!n=ehird95@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254444625 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I possibly the prers on using the oldest OS to enter here? < 1254444638 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Harumph, backspace doesn't work. < 1254444641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254444651 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone's used anythinig older than Windows 95 to come here, anyway. < 1254444653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^H ftw < 1254444665 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetz from Windows 95 Telnet. < 1254444678 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: despite what I told Telnet, freenode's IRC link is anonot a VT100. < 1254444689 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be dstripping out my backspaces. < 1254444704 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm avoiding using that key, due to it, you nkow, being useless. < 1254444749 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1254444814 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC works on windows 95, you know. < 1254444820 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose telnet is preferable to mIRC. < 1254444825 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See two lines beofore I entered. < 1254444836 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, mIRc is C is so bloated thseese days. < 1254444847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't feel... 95. < 1254444847 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a note to be less lazy < 1254444853 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1254444885 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Telnet option to wait for the whole line beofore ensending? < 1254444893 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an option to read the - oh, there it is. < 1254444904 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would feel slightly 95-y if you left it in fixedsys < 1254444905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly laggy network stack. < 1254444916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: BUT ONLY SLIGHTLT < 1254444918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLIGHTLY < 1254444949 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas for making the grahics performance less cripplingly slow? < 1254445086 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes 95 not prompt for a network logon on startup, reboots to persist that setting and see if it works < 1254445095 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did just type that using literal Ctrl-As. < 1254445107 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254445135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it prompts me for a username and password, but I can skip that to disable it. < 1254445192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it wants a username though. < 1254445202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was my username before this, I wonder? < 1254445462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 T6" < 1254445463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1254445503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Ig Nobels are on :) < 1254445561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ig nobels vaguely irriate me < 1254445566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irritate < 1254445590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it groups valid research with homeopaths, and says to the valid researchers "your work seems amusing to the common man! harde har har!" < 1254445934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Rule of Funny wins < 1254445950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254445952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hilariou < 1254446053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254446074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody talks about windows 95 on google :( < 1254446074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all xp < 1254446198 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I always use literal Ctrl-As to type my ACTIONs when doing IRC via telnet. < 1254446215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Yes, but this is Windows Telnet. < 1254446219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphical. Weird thing. < 1254446241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you want True color or high resolution, you need to download special drivers. < 1254446241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/bearwindows/vbe9x.htm" < 1254446242 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hyperterminal? < 1254446242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harumph < 1254446245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: nah < 1254446294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBEMP x86 Project < 1254446294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universal VESA/VBE Video Display Driver < 1254446294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Windows 9x x86 Architecture) < 1254446296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this is it. < 1254446443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some old version of Opera is likely to be the snappiest, most compatible browser for this, right? < 1254446502 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What version of IE is on there, if any? < 1254446522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 3. < 1254446526 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE4 doesn't work with msn.com, incidentally < 1254446536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably get IE 5.5 or something, max. < 1254446538 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OSes were IE2 and 1 for? < 1254446547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.0 or 3.11 or something < 1254446549 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got IE6 working on Win98 < 1254446604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reboots, installs the third-party VESA driver, yay? < 1254446656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, IE 3 can't do about:blank < 1254446675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\BLANK.HTM < 1254446676 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember playing with IE's about:some_html < 1254446677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff < 1254446681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1254446716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, by "IE is a part of the OS" I think they meant "we forgot to make folders, so we have our HTM files in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM and stuff, and we can't figure out how to extract all the files". < 1254446730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lo, Marketing went: "And this is Good." < 1254446780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my mouse wheel worked. < 1254446784 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought IE wasn't considered part of the OS until 98? < 1254446858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slow driver operation when user scroll, move or resize a window." < 1254446860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh < 1254446864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Probably true < 1254446887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It's certainly an OS *component* in 95, though. < 1254446896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even changes the boot splash to include "Microsoft Internet Explorer". < 1254446916 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1254446936 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers changing his bootscreen to Userfriendly stuff < 1254446994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should have changed it to your desktop background, say with a fake window saying "Starting Windows...". It'd feel like the graphics have initialised earlier, providing that your resolution was low enough that it didn't look all pixelated. :P < 1254447008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's so fast now!" < 1254447013 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254447120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, 95 can't handle PNGs by default. < 1254447280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, PNG came out in 1997 I think. < 1254447339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: The service pack for 95 included IE. < 1254447351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made some rather massive patches. < 1254447363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clearly, we should all switch back to .gif! < 1254447366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(largely for the sake of "ITS PART OF THE OS!") < 1254447394 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.gif has wider support than .png! < 1254447405 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The patent on GIFs ran out, right?) < 1254447420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254447427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on the algorithm. < 1254447441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I need to unzip things. < 1254447449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess WinZip is my best option for 95... < 1254447451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An old version. < 1254447904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip lists its first working version as 98; worth the risk, I wonder? < 1254448000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently some older 7-Zips worked on 95, so. < 1254448012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An older WinZip might actually be lighter, though. < 1254448055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to use sourceforge's download site with IE 3, so old WinZip it is. < 1254448508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tight integration with the Windows 95 shell" < 1254448511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :P < 1254448589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happily disabled. < 1254448601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinZip 6.2, circa 1996. < 1254448615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like every WinZip version. < 1254448648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CompuServe mail: 70056,241" < 1254448661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bringing the convenience of Windows to the use of ZIP files" < 1254448675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, and it still has that Path column instead of showing a hierarchical view. < 1254448685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they do that? < 1254448816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Driver installed with a double-click, files deletes. < 1254448817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deleted < 1254448923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, not *quite* double-clicking; think I need to use it as a Have Disk. < 1254448984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254448997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohnoes, an error D: < 1254449016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll reboot and hope for the best. < 1254449048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pow! Kazap! That's some fast display technology! < 1254449065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 color?!!?! Let's use... AWESOME COLOURW^W32-bit < 1254449068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*^W^W < 1254449098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only goes to 800x600; probably because of the 256-colour thing. Should be able to bunk that up post-32bitizing. < 1254449106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, nope. < 1254449110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can VESA only do 800x600? < 1254449298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, indeed. < 1254449300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1254449339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users employing the Windows 95 operating system who want to install Opera 9.5 are therefore advised to download and install the free Windows Sockets 2.0 update from Microsoft." < 1254449349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They... still supported 95 as of last version? < 1254449520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Rain, then sets about finding a browser, IRC client < 1254449769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so my fan spins down; thanks, Rain. < 1254450115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs IntelliPoint drivers 4.01 for Windows 95 < 1254450115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should include Wheel Mouse drivers, which should enable the mouse wheel. < 1254450170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...apparently these MOUSE DRIVERS require a newer IE. < 1254450184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT < 1254450197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been talking to myself for an awful long while; anyone there? < 1254450222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nein. < 1254450228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. < 1254450242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas how the fuck some mouse drivers for Windows 95 could require IE in any way? < 1254450251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just forcing me to install it because of bullshit, and lying to me about why? < 1254450344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it's unable to launch IE5setup.exe anyway. < 1254450359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll Just Use An Older Version(TM). < 1254450946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they've removed the fucking drivers. < 1254451773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everyone < 1254451778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1254451795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time no see < 1254451837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 40-50 math problems a week, plus a few hundred pages to read < 1254451853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the overachieving thing < 1254451858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254451886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has lots of work he should be doing < 1254451901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as doing a bonus assignment to bring my test mark in Bio up to 100% :D < 1254451941 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254451947 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi oklopol < 1254451947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really my competitiveness is completely rational, in automata theory, i was disappointed there was no problem only i had done < 1254451949 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he was here before oerjan < 1254451951 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yesterday i think < 1254451960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't matter i was the only one to have done them all < 1254451981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: i'm sure you quoted that from months ago :D < 1254451994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was here this morning i think < 1254451995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1254451998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday < 1254452046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was probably sleeping. as i will soon. < 1254452151 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 95 is cool. < 1254452272 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm formatting one of those extraneous disk drives instantly closes virtualbox < 1254452278 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they're non-floppy things that it mistakes for floppies :) < 1254452284 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god windows 95 is so quick to boot up < 1254452290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... this pizza guy is bad, but he doesn't set a record < 1254452325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254452334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was disappointed the guy in the wheelchair who can only mumble and bite his arm was actually just an average student, i had my hawking fantasies < 1254452347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1254452354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254452387 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254452412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now has fantasies of him being a pizza guy on the side < 1254452413 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean moutharm < 1254452416 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shot < 1254452429 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION braces for swatting < 1254452456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know i suffer from brachiophagia -----### < 1254452477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, see you later, need to go do stuff -> < 1254452510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only skin deep, but still < 1254452535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye oklopol < 1254452542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, CSS level 2 isn't out but CSS level 3 is already being drafted < 1254452723 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254452726 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong < 1254452731 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only css 2.1 that isn't out < 1254452933 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I like Windows 95 < 1254452940 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so upsetting < 1254453097 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254453125 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254453130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254453135 0 :Sgeo__!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254454180 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please Tell Me Why You Are Still Useing Windows 95 WHEN You Can Buy a Recon XP Machine Of A Decent Spec for 75 Pounds Why Are U Still F**king Around With 95 Well Ok I Still Have A 98 Machine But Thats ON 24 7 for my email inbox for work it sa pice of s**t but i only need 4 emails --Annoyances.org Windows 95 forum < 1254454294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly that guy has the annoyance part spot on < 1254454318 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like idiot poetry. < 1254455167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: you weren't entirely correct about Intel drivers sucking less that ATI. Less stuff works, but the stuff that works works better < 1254455170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/less that/more than/ < 1254455316 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less stuff like what? < 1254455319 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's still shit slow < 1254455355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is less choppy < 1254455361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can run compositing and OGL at the same time < 1254456133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254456374 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254456654 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456655 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456655 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456668 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456669 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456669 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254456763 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456763 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254456799 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1254456805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nickserv < 1254456807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254456808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION upgrades MSIE 3.0 to MSIE 3.02 to get the new WinInet.dll for Opera 9 < 1254456842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worky :( < 1254456849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees if he can persuade opera 10 to run < 1254456870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254456875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with the classic installer < 1254456879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work, opera 9.64 classic installer < 1254457041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: Using this option requires all users on this computer to be administrators." < 1254457052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users? Administrators? What do you speak of, clearly modern program! < 1254457106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The system library Msimg32.dll is missing or too old, so certain transparency effects will be slow and possibly not drawn corectly. Obtaining the library from a Windows ME installation and placing it in your Windows system directory will fix this." < 1254457122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well gee, I don't think I'm going to be infecting this VM with the virus you speak of... :P < 1254457142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, uh, holy shit. < 1254457143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works. < 1254457158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, works works. < 1254457160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Properly. < 1254457168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Slowly... < 1254457178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No that LIES < 1254457184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing from ME is good EVER < 1254457192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Opera 10. < 1254457195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...on Windows 9. < 1254457197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*95 < 1254457204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've gotta wonder why they bother coding for it. < 1254457208 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254457209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a bitch. < 1254457216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPEAKING OF BITCHES HI AUGUR < 1254457237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, it really works properly < 1254457242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit.com renders in a few seconds smoothly < 1254457252 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH HEY EHIRD < 1254457304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my next trick, I'm going to fucking - wait for it - try to install Flash. < 1254457314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL CONQUER YOU, WINDOWS 95! < 1254457320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL FIND WHAT YOU CANNOT DO, AND I WILL SPIT AT THEE! < 1254457372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows 98/ME" WELL THAT'S BASICALLY LIKE 95! < 1254457384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, no Flash 10 for me, oh no, only 9 < 1254457418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1254457421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsupported operating system. < 1254457424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'll just go for the previous version! < 1254457577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Make it so that hovering over Opera's menu doesn't highlight them; other programs don't do that,. < 1254457578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that. < 1254458046 0 :ehird95!n=opera@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254458050 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1254458060 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Opera 10 on Windows 95. < 1254458091 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : VERSION Opera/9.80 (Windows 95; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 < 1254458186 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to see if mIRC would run better... hey, why is Opera in my system tray? < 1254458254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254458266 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... how can I remove it... < 1254458708 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254458727 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur. < 1254458749 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi ehi- < 1254458751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT A MINUTE < 1254458758 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1254458763 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*What. < 1254458766 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next itll be ehird98 < 1254458769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ehird2000 < 1254458771 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ehirdME < 1254458777 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1254458780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD GOD MAN < 1254458793 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw. 98 is boring, but 2000 is fun. Me is just oh god. < 1254458801 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: also, I'm actually using Windows 95 to type this line. < 1254458818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1254458835 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Opera 10, which also renders modern webpages really snappily just fine. Admittedly 95 is being virtualised under a system with a 2.1GHz Core 2 Duo. < 1254458841 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VM only has 64MiB of RAM though. < 1254458857 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my scroll wheel works. < 1254458872 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254458902 0 :ehird95!n=opera@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254458905 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eep. < 1254458908 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera crashed there. < 1254458940 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I actually had to install drivers for Microsoft mice, but they enable the scroll wheel just fine... < 1254458995 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur. < 1254459176 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai < 1254459218 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the latest mIRC should also work with 95. < 1254459671 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose anyone knows of a good tool to measure memory and CPU usage by individual processes in a list for windows 9x? Thought not. < 1254460214 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254460253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254462046 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254462057 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1254462060 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1254462384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if ehird95 will say something. < 1254462473 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely! < 1254462490 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254462506 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254462606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why opening a DOS prompt garbles everything. < 1254462643 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254465023 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254465736 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254465810 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254465826 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha! < 1254465837 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the glorious power of the registry, I have enabled full colour icons! < 1254465936 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254465951 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was limited to 800x600 because of the setting of the monitor to svga 800x600 < 1254465952 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me < 1254465979 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can have up to 1600x1200! < 1254466159 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254466578 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254466794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why ehird is obsessed with visual effects ... < 1254467649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is brainstorming for suitable words using A, A, T ("skip to next line" idiom in ETA) < 1254467701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't use any of the following before those, though: HTAOINSE < 1254467708 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not easily) < 1254467861 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"apathy", "a cat", "Paul Blart", ... < 1254467904 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bsfjzidwvqewpceu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254469147 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254469597 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254469640 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i'm not "obsessed with visual effects" < 1254469649 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the 16-color icons for modern programs are reaaaaaaaaaaally ugly < 1254469662 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just one registry change to fix the *artificially limited* colors < 1254469669 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to sell Win95 Plus!) < 1254469693 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they sell Plus! anymore < 1254469716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah, they don't sell Windows 95 any more, either; but that's what I did the hack on because when they made 95 they were trying to sell Plus!. < 1254469719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I think Vista is different < 1254469735 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you realise that the icons were 16-color before... < 1254469740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uses .PNG or whatever) < 1254469746 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never cared, honestly < 1254469758 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fixing an intentional deficiency in Windows 95 so that the icons for modern programs were legible; it took about 10 seconds. < 1254469760 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember playing games that came with Windows 98 Plus! < 1254469781 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody makes 16-color icons nowadays, so they're illegible blobs. < 1254469805 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Windows 98 Plus! would work in Xp < 1254469806 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP < 1254469810 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it < 1254469832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS couldn't even get Vista out the door without breaking MSVC 2k5 etc. < 1254469864 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I've had no luck getting a widescreen resolution, though Nathan of toastytech.com used Windows 95 with a widescreen monitor as his main OS as recently as a few years ago, iirc < 1254469874 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's with a Voodoo card; I just have this lowly VESA thing. < 1254469893 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's pushing 1280x1024 at the moment, with a small black bar at the top and bottom and big ones to the sides. < 1254469901 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphics performance is... not stellar. < 1254469920 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But menus and windows and such pop up instantly, and Opera 10 is more or less usable when it isn't apparently using up all the CPU. < 1254469948 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if Opera 10 did that, but who knows ... < 1254469980 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: did what? < 1254469981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been using Chrome a lot lately, so has been neglecting Opera, Firefox, etc. < 1254469988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hogged all your cpu(s) < 1254469996 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I can't use Chrome because it requires 2000/XP and I'm using 95. < 1254470016 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Firefox 2.0.0.18 (or whatever) still works on Win95, right? < 1254470022 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only Firefox <2 < 1254470029 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Opera 10 supports more stuff and is waaaay more snappy. < 1254470029 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you're using an older computer without multi-core, a lot of stuff won't be as fast < 1254470047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 99% sure that 2.0.0.18 supports Win98 at least (not Win95 also??) < 1254470049 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I have two cores; it's just that I'm using an OS that thinks I'm running the top-of-the-line processor, a Pentium Pro. < 1254470055 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's in a VM) < 1254470058 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 is not dual core friendly < 1254470060 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: 2 drops support for 95 < 1254470063 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, VM, no wonder it's slow < 1254470065 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1254470072 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays VMs run the code directly on the CPU < 1254470089 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the hardware is emulated < 1254470092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of it, and even then that's only with virtualization extensions < 1254470096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't take much to push some pixels < 1254470100 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how Win95 and Win98 are so different. I know that a lot of stuff runs on 98 but not 95, but WHY? < 1254470100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the VESA driver is, well, slow < 1254470113 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Of course I'm using the virtualization extensions < 1254470120 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMs are worthlessly slow without them < 1254470134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow is still better than nothing < 1254470137 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Win98 replaces explorer with IE. Most else is artificial. < 1254470151 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I don't *need* to run Win95; if I had to have it so slow I probably wouldn't bother < 1254470160 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know all the differences either, but Win98SE had a different driver model, no? < 1254470172 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you running Win95, then? < 1254470181 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 95 is fun. < 1254470200 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by itself? or do you have apps too? < 1254470203 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite modern - can run an impressive amount of Windows software - and uses the same basic GUI paradigm as in the ever-popular XP - and yet it's really simple. < 1254470233 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's 95/OSR1 < 1254470241 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comes on a CD and bundles IE 3 < 1254470244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember and used it < 1254470255 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I upgraded IE from 3.0 to 3.02 to get a new DLL file for Opera 10 < 1254470268 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my copy was an "upgrade", came with two floppies for Win 3.0 and like 16 more 1.68 MB overformatted floppies for Win95 itself (pre-OSR2.5) < 1254470268 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, this song is not how my nostalgic memory remembers it, but it has to be the right song < 1254470279 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software I'm using: Microsoft IntelliPoint 3.something (for MS mice, but it makes the mouse wheel work) < 1254470283 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC < 1254470283 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very surprised Opera 10 works < 1254470285 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera 10 < 1254470289 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old WinZip < 1254470295 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was kinda pissed when a lot of people dropped support for Win9x fairly recently < 1254470298 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinZip 6.2 < 1254470300 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa like 1996 < 1254470307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Firefox, Pelles C, soon Cygwin, etc.) < 1254470308 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: codewise 9x is a bitch. < 1254470321 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just glad that the Opera and mIRC devs are crazy. < 1254470321 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than DOS? doubt it ;-) < 1254470329 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With DOS you just poke the hardware. < 1254470335 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, I like DOS ;-) < 1254470338 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 9x you poke the hardware through a buggy and fucked-up additional layer. < 1254470354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the wheel in DOS too (CuteMouse) < 1254470363 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera 10 is stunning for the OS, though; it can render modern pages in seconds < 1254470373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very lucky that it works there < 1254470377 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254470397 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still an officially supported platform, and they have knowledge-base articles about it for fixing problems as recently as opera 9 < 1254470399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254470400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254470401 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circa 2006 or something) < 1254470409 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explaining that you have to install winsock2 < 1254470410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kudos to them < 1254470415 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some crazy people must be using opera on windows 95 < 1254470418 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, apart from me < 1254470429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1254470442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even some things (e.g. VirtualBox since 1.52 or so) don't even run on Win2k !! < 1254470446 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta wonder if the execs have got word of that... don't think they'd be so fond of spending so many resources for that 0.0001% :-) < 1254470448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so getting Win9x compatibility is even harder! < 1254470467 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I developed Windows software I'd never think about supporting 9x, just for my sanity < 1254470487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're too young ... if you grew up with it, it might be different (nostalgia, experience, etc.) < 1254470490 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if support is dropped; this is a fun historical curiosity and something to put on less beefy machines, not a hyper-duper-workstation-2009 < 1254470495 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can always use old versions < 1254470514 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Hey, I grew up with 3.11. < 1254470520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win9x is limited in max. RAM anyways, and SATA drives are either hard or impossible to get working, so it's definitely not for new machines < 1254470532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs patches just to run newer Firefox or Doom 3 or whatever ... < 1254470536 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(98 was out in the year I got a computer, so it and 95 must have been too expensive :-P) < 1254470545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.11 with win32s is the one that's a bit hard to find support for nowadays. < 1254470557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing runs on Win32s, I looked (a year or so ago) ;-) < 1254470564 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: limited in max ram? isn't it just to like 2GiB < 1254470568 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to 32-bit without PAE < 1254470575 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call that a huge limitation because, you know, it's 95 < 1254470577 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 GB, I think < 1254470586 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running a smoooooooooooooooooooth workstation here with 64MiB of virtual ram < 1254470594 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think it's swapped once :P < 1254470595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one guy uses the other gig of his RAM for a big RAM drive ;-) < 1254470611 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put the swap file on that RAM drive. < 1254470616 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bazam, extra, slightly slower RAM! < 1254470630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, I forget the details < 1254470650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually I'm not sure if any (most?) MS OSes even support PAE besides the server versions (maybe) < 1254470664 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can actually use disks as big as you want with 95; iirc 64GB was claimed as the limit but apparently 160GB and the like work just fine < 1254470677 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :137 GB without some fix, I think < 1254470685 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How limiting. < 1254470694 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Win98 had a bug where it would crash if you left it running for like 48 days < 1254470703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously no one ever did, heh) < 1254470704 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 95 has that too. < 1254470708 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47.7 or something < 1254470716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if suspend/resume counts, or hibernate/resume < 1254470727 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so then it could be semi-relevant on a laptop. < 1254470727 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides servers, I doubt if anybody would want to < 1254470734 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again Windows crashes more frequently than that anyway. < 1254470744 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if Win9x supports ACPI < 1254470747 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only APM, probably < 1254470756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :49.7 days. < 1254470756 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a plus, though, 95 boots to desktop in, oh, 15 seconds? < 1254470761 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 20 seconds. < 1254470761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 2^32 milliseconds, if you prefer. < 1254470771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^32/1000/60/60/24 < 1254470771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :49.71026962962962962962 < 1254470779 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's very fast < 1254470783 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if it wants to ScanDisk because you crashed, which is when boot time matters most, it takes about a minute or so. < 1254470791 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is irritating, as it refuses to let you skip it. < 1254470791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP was allegedly designed to boot to GUI in 30 secs. (but that doesn't count responsiveness) < 1254470801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista is a lot more responsive quicker < 1254470813 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(allegedly, hard to compare when my XP machine is single core and this one is dual) < 1254470815 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI of 95 is very well polished < 1254470832 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's more focused than Mac OS, apart from the settings dialogs, which are a bit sprawling. < 1254470834 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's the price you pay for FAT vs. NTFS < 1254470836 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Classic Mac OS) < 1254470876 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used classic Mac OS < 1254470890 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, uninstaller wants me to reboot :P < 1254470899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254471000 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254471004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That win95 pinball works on win32s, they say. And I do remember having some programs that required win32s. < 1254471025 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I think I'm going to have to write a little program that runs in the background and, if you click in the bottom-left corner, opens the start menu. < 1254471040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, there's a whole list of win32s-compatible programs: http://www.i24.com/en/win32s/tips/w32slist.htm < 1254471044 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000 and XP do it, even though the button seems to stop before then; it's so annoying to see a corner being used without Fitt's Law. < 1254471047 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid, stupid, stupid. < 1254471072 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be easy to get all mouse clicks in a certain position, right? No permissions or anything to deal with. < 1254471095 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean it's hard to find freeware Win32s apps anymore < 1254471112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom still supports all that stuff, though (ironically) < 1254471160 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One option for Windows 95's sharp GUI + less horrifically broken internals is Windows NT 4.0, which is... just that. < 1254471160 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen that list, not huge, most of that is hard to find, barely works, or ain't free < 1254471177 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT kernel running the Windows 95 shell. < 1254471180 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win NT 4.0 needs higher requirements and only goes up to DX3 < 1254471192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no LFNs for DOS apps (without TSR / DLL combo) < 1254471202 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That DX3 thing is an issue, but higher system requirements is kinda irrelevant; they're all rock-bottom. < 1254471213 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how many DOS apps actually use LFNs? < 1254471217 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite width buttons! < 1254471222 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant now but not then < 1254471226 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many? all DJGPPv2 apps! < 1254471230 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm talking now. :P < 1254471240 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously now < 1254471245 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how many are there of those? 3? < 1254471247 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254471254 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several hundred < 1254471264 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly unix stuff, though, yah? < 1254471266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a lot of FreeDOS' 16-bit stuff supports LFNs < 1254471268 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254471283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP was pretty popular among hobbyist-freeware-developery people. < 1254471288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with being, you know, free. < 1254471296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free and good (POSIX, GCC, etc.) < 1254471296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first C compiler, I think. < 1254471315 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current DJGPP + GCC beats OpenWatcom hands down < 1254471315 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, some bullshit I can't delete. < 1254471330 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Into the regedit! < 1254471345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course all the "real" coders had a copy of Watcom with a bit shady background. < 1254471367 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of shady backgrounds, I wonder if I can get Microsoft to sue me for pirating this 95. < 1254471375 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC wasn't as good until the ECGS merger (1999), then it really took off < 1254471377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using dos4gw instead of cwsdpmi is the true mark of a professional. < 1254471383 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, throw rocks in Bill's window with "I PIRATED 95" etched into them. < 1254471399 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos4gw is desperately buggy < 1254471405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and big and bloated, but it mostly works < 1254471428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MURDER doesn't have a STATUTE of LIMITATIONS; I'm sure they'd sue you. < 1254471430 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom used Watcom/DOS4GW but Quake used DJGPPv2 < 1254471430 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a legal copy of Win98 >.> < 1254471442 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win98! It's like 95 but with IE craptergration! < 1254471451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even if they did, I could just send you like my 18-floppy copy (heh) and they'd probably shut up < 1254471453 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98SE! It's like 98 except it's totally new! < 1254471470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seriously prefers FreeDOS over Win9x < 1254471481 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I'm actually considering reinstalling from the floppy copy (don't copy that floppy); it doesn't force you to install IE, you see. < 1254471484 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the 95 disk have the Microsoft Comic Chat or wahtever it's called? < 1254471493 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: not sure. I can look if you want. < 1254471514 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask, but what host OS are you running Win95 on? < 1254471516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that the licenses don't really expire, I think I have a "legal" copy of win95 (and possibly some out of {3.11, 3.1, 3.0, 1.02} too, I don't quite remember where those came from) too. < 1254471516 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what VM? < 1254471518 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious, sure < 1254471522 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: VirtualBox. < 1254471533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox is good (although not as much with 16-bit code) < 1254471533 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what Windows 1.02 was like < 1254471538 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap :-) < 1254471543 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Host OS is Ubuntu 9.10 alpha6. < 1254471547 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never used it but has seen the pics, ugh < 1254471550 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running on a late-2006 iMac. < 1254471554 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.10 beta was released recently < 1254471557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, EGA graphics and everything. < 1254471562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMac? surprising < 1254471564 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: That'll just come in the updates. < 1254471580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Win1 did support windowing! Though not overlapping windows, obviously, just split-screening. < 1254471582 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox fullscreen doesn't change the host resolution in Windows, boo < 1254471587 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had this iMac since 2006 and OS X only started to annoy me recently. < 1254471599 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 actually still has Program Manager! < 1254471607 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know ... not exactly useful IMHO < 1254471611 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks. < 1254471628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Well, you could also minimize programs, so it makes some sense. Maybe. A bit. < 1254471662 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I just tried progman in XP.. < 1254471677 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO TODAY?" -- \Sampler\Videos\200bttrf < 1254471683 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Start" < 1254471685 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*click* < 1254471690 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA 3D SPIN < 1254471692 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so 1995. < 1254471694 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, it didn't complain about it not existing, but nothing's starting < 1254471725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.png is a very representable screenshot of Windows 1; that's what it looked like. < 1254471734 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Weezer video on the 95 CD? Microsoft tricked me into downloading a Weezer video. < 1254471740 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you, Microsoft! < 1254471758 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weezer? < 1254471763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The green bar at the bottom edge gets icons for minimized programs. < 1254471764 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some band. < 1254471765 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just being silly. < 1254471782 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: can't find comic chat. < 1254471794 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything with chat? I don't remember the exact name < 1254471801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I seem to remember that 1.0 was just monochrome, and the 1.02 update got us EGA colors, but I guess it's also possible we just used 1.0 with the monochrome Hercules card and the 1.02 was on another computer with EGA graphics. < 1254471801 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a telephone-calling application. < 1254471804 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Comic Chat < 1254471818 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winfile! < 1254471820 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah! < 1254471824 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Managing files 'n shit! < 1254471832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Comic Chat was released with the full downloads of Internet Explorer 3, 4, and 5, as well as in the Windows 98 and Windows 2000 distributions." < 1254471845 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just installed the Typical 3.02; thank god not the Full. < 1254471859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, don't you want all the bells and whistles? < 1254471891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it come with NetMeeting? < 1254471908 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254471930 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers playing with NetMeeting < 1254471937 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254471947 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I really need to remember that opening DOS apps breaks this thing. < 1254471961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they rename Comic Chat to "Microsoft Chat"? < 1254471983 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaks what? < 1254471990 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Windows. < 1254472002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it "break"? < 1254472003 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the display go all funny and I have to hard-reset it. < 1254472011 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you try to run? < 1254472011 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft Comic Chat installed a custom font, Microsoft Comic Sans, that users could use in other applications and documents." < 1254472021 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL COMIC CHAt < 1254472021 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it happens with any DOS thingy. < 1254472024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the wfw3.11 "WinPopup" messaging. It's like IM, except not quite. < 1254472027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even text apps? < 1254472035 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254472038 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I have. < 1254472038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a bad setting in your .PIF < 1254472044 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which pif? < 1254472052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, dosprmpt.pif perhaps < 1254472065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, "There is also a port to linux with an extended feature called LinPopUp, which allows adding Linux computers to the set. Linpopup is an X Window graphical port of Winpopup, and a package for Debian linux. It runs over Samba. Linpopup does not have to run all the time, can run minimized, and its messages are encrypted with a strong cypher." That's among the most useless things I can imagine. < 1254472074 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: and how would I fix it? :P < 1254472084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pifedit < 1254472092 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link. < 1254472098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there already < 1254472104 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, I just tried. :P < 1254472109 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1254472112 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 95? < 1254472115 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g2g eat < 1254472116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254472133 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start->Run "pifedit C:\windows\dosprmpt.pif". < 1254472133 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1254472137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work, IIRC < 1254472138 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the quotes. < 1254472155 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot find the file pifedit or one of its components. < 1254472186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a VirtualBox bug < 1254472190 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no. < 1254472193 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just can't find the file. < 1254472195 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the error it gives. :P < 1254472199 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that, the screen mess-up thingy < 1254472203 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254472207 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked earlier, though < 1254472210 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just stopped woorking. < 1254472211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To correct this problem, you must modify either dosprmpt.pif, command.pif or 4dos.pif, whichever is present in your Windows directory. < 1254472211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows 3.1 and NT you must use pifedit.exe to modify them. In Windows 95 you can press ALT+ENTER on the PIF files or on command.com/4dos.com directly." < 1254472212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*working < 1254472215 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254472223 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the VGA driver then < 1254472224 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1254472228 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the VESA driver broke something < 1254472240 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well I can't use anything that runs in a dos prompt. < 1254472241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that was just for removing the startup path, maybe not for twiddling the actual pif file contents. < 1254472243 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1254472273 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+enter = properties. < 1254472278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I remember that much. < 1254472290 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :font is set to 6x12 < 1254472293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there a special properties dialog for pif files? There might even have been. < 1254472299 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory is auto/not protected; auto; auto; uses hma; auto < 1254472303 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not configured for expanded memory < 1254472314 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen is window; default; display toolbar; restore settings on startup; < 1254472316 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast rom emulation; < 1254472318 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic memory allocation < 1254472338 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misc is allow screensaver; no quickedit or exclusive mode; don't always suspend; warn if still active; medium idle sensitivity; fast pasting; all windows shortcut keys < 1254472353 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program is MS-DOS Prompt; C:\WINDOWS\command.com; no shortcut key; run in normal window; close on exit < 1254472356 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn off "window" and use full-screen if possible < 1254472363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the whole EMS/XMS mess was also hilarious. < 1254472367 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try, but that's kind of annoying. < 1254472369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must lunch. < 1254472399 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: normal window/maximized/mninimized < 1254472400 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no full screen < 1254472404 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minimized < 1254472407 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254472408 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in screen < 1254472411 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ticks full-screen < 1254472419 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMS predates XMS < 1254472426 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit.com < 1254472520 0 :ehird95_!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254472520 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254472524 0 :ehird95_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird95 < 1254472538 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where it crashed < 1254472554 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most didn't ... hence why NT is now prevalent ;-) < 1254472575 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that reddit.com was meant to go in opera < 1254472581 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the location bar, split out < 1254472582 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1254472582 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering < 1254472587 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each pixel had hundreds of pixels around it on my screen < 1254472592 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had the wrong colour < 1254472596 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was sort of like a weird zooming-in < 1254472601 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't get it to change < 1254472607 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it shows that only the graphics are effing up < 1254472618 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox isn't very stable in some ways < 1254472626 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its DOS compatibility is weaker than other VMs < 1254472644 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do suggest something better that runs on linux :) < 1254472667 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, haven't really tried too much on Linux < 1254472673 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Bochs, but it'll probably be loads slower < 1254472682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's been improved a lot lately < 1254472687 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bochs is possibly the slowest thing that claims to emulate an x86 < 1254472694 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody really knows, though; it's never performed any instructions < 1254472704 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, its configuration format is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge pain) < 1254472717 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I also dislike the config crapola < 1254472731 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs flash player 7 < 1254472739 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's windows 95 without rick rolling. < 1254472743 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rickrolling < 1254472760 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're just running Win95 for laughs? < 1254472776 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. i am kinda tempted to roll on over to ebay and purchase like an X20 or something < 1254472784 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really old tiny thinkpad and put win95 on it :P < 1254472796 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray, flash 7 works < 1254472803 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, if you want something like that, get a netbook and run DOSEMU or WINE < 1254472807 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(9 didn't; I don't remember if I tried 8) < 1254472813 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: netbooks are shoddy pieces of crap :( < 1254472822 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they lack retro hardware... in its place bad hardware < 1254472822 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, so is a used laptop :-P < 1254472827 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly! < 1254472832 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpads are beautiful sculptures of hardware. < 1254472839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the used laptop actually works, then yes, good < 1254472849 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but new OSes and old hardware aren't friends (and vice versa) < 1254472854 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 is a new OS?! < 1254472857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254472870 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then what's the conflict with putting 95 on an old thinkpad, that sounds logical to me :P < 1254472886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine if you want to struggle with that, but old hardware often dies < 1254472906 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254472910 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254472911 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bought a Lynx II (made in 1991) in 2004 or so, it only lasted a year, maybe two < 1254472923 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are original model thinkpads still working; many of them < 1254472929 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpads are ridiculously sturdy < 1254472934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just not airtight :-/ < 1254472938 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i know < 1254472945 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying that a lot of people get second-hand thinkpads < 1254472947 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love retro (more than modern, too), but it's not flawless < 1254472954 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a rule they don't really break < 1254472958 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without active breakingness < 1254472982 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1254472982 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X20 < 1254472985 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dinky is that?! :P < 1254472995 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beefy specs for a 95 machine, too...) < 1254473065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS still doesn't have good (or any, really) drivers for sound, esp. non-SB < 1254473088 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254473092 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure the x20 can talk soundblaster < 1254473093 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1254473097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the processor looks okay, RAM could be better (or worse even) < 1254473101 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you forgot Gravis :-) < 1254473107 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AC97 ain't the best < 1254473115 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 is kinda impossible on win95 < 1254473118 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for self-evident reasons < 1254473129 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254473133 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problems loading this youtube page < 1254473151 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think YouTube upgraded to Flash 9 not too long ago (to many peoples' chagrin) < 1254473172 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be wrong on the version number, but they still aren't "good enough" to FOSS codecs, etc. < 1254473186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although Google did buy some codec developer recently, maybe they'll change) < 1254473207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of stuff uses Flash, perhaps too much (considering its transitory nature) < 1254473278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my Dad's Mac OS X (10.3.9) laptop's Flash was "too old" to watch some stuff < 1254473301 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube recommended me to upgrade to flash 10 when i had 9 or 8, i forget which < 1254473301 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1254473307 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't force it < 1254473310 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the flash itself didn't work) < 1254473324 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash is a pain to many people < 1254473570 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254473636 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, VMware is reported to work well < 1254473642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254473644 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never bothered trying it < 1254473651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1254473669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo #nethack, yay ##crawl ;-) < 1254473682 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254473709 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he's in #nethack) < 1254473721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: and why not? < 1254473722 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a NetHack person, kind of < 1254473725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do play Crawl a bit too, though < 1254473737 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds NetHack too hard, too confusing < 1254473749 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very steep learning curve < 1254473761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl's decent as a wargame, but it plays rather differently from NetHack < 1254473769 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254473771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the two are more or less independent in the strategies needed < 1254473779 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254473797 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl feels more arcade-like but really needs fairly good strategy < 1254473806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of experience ;-) < 1254473847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no selling stuff, no need to run to altar to id stuff < 1254473864 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi, i'm using windows 95. < 1254473864 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... if Windows 95 Plus! introduced IE 1.0, how does ehird95 have 3.0? < 1254473881 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: 95 plus! introduced ie 1.0? WTF < 1254473883 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on crack < 1254473887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: great < 1254473889 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie dates back to win3 days :P < 1254473893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually liked Win95 at the time < 1254473902 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's actually pretty good! < 1254473903 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This was the first version of Plus! and included Space Cadet Pinball, the Internet Jumpstart Kit (which was the introduction of Internet Explorer 1.0)" < 1254473905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, when XP came out I preferred it to XP < 1254473912 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Plus!#Microsoft_Plus.21_for_Windows_95 < 1254473921 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Wiki's wrong? < 1254473927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still do except it isn't compatible with anything < 1254473938 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my favourite part is the GUI; Explorer and its ilk < 1254473942 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's sort of... crisp < 1254473947 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like every pixel was accounted for < 1254473965 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't say nothing supports it! < 1254473970 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera 10 runs on it almost entirely perfectly < 1254473971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, even nowadays I style XP to look like that < 1254473977 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1254473983 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 95's explorer had different menus for instance < 1254473987 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only big deal with Win95 was the 32-bit API, the DOS integration, and Plug 'n Play < 1254473991 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think you can make xp open one window for every app < 1254474004 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I'm talking to you with the latest version of mIRC, while browsing the regular web on regular settings using Opera 10 < 1254474009 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's crusing < 1254474011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254474017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: don't like Opera's IRC? < 1254474020 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Opera 10 is the latest Opera) < 1254474024 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I used it, but "eh" < 1254474028 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicer to have it as a separate program. < 1254474031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's the reason I still compile new opera apps against Windows 3.1? < 1254474033 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seperate < 1254474039 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun trivia: mIRC was originally freeware!! < 1254474041 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: new opera apps? < 1254474042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, in theory later versions of windows can still emulate it < 1254474044 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Still is :P < 1254474046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... new windows apps < 1254474051 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody actually registers it, do they? < 1254474052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if and when I write one, which is rare < 1254474058 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*separate < 1254474062 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, opera 10 really does work perfectly with only a few glitches < 1254474065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exception's if they're 32-bit, in which case I compile against Windows 95 < 1254474066 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess not perfectly then < 1254474073 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1254474073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: not with Opera, Chatzilla, ERC, etc. ;-) < 1254474077 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails to report file sizes and image sizes < 1254474078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Windows XP broke a lot of the compatibility stuff < 1254474079 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only thing I've found < 1254474092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that if I use Windows 1 features that were deprecated in 3.1, I shouldn't really expect them to work in XP < 1254474092 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only have 64MiB of RAM in this VM! < 1254474096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they work fine in 95!) < 1254474105 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit is dead in AMD64 < 1254474127 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once Windows requires (or "recommends") > 3 GB of RAM for actual use, 32-bit is DOA < 1254474138 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had to skip past a few spam ad surveys on a shady windows-drivers site to get them to give me an old version of the Microsoft IntelliPoint drivers; I don't have a Microsoft mouse, but this enables the scroll-wheel... < 1254474148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254474153 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I needed an older version so it didn't depend on a newer IE and also to have less crap on my system) < 1254474156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what driver EULAs are like? < 1254474161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may still have one of those on CD < 1254474164 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could install the newer IE, but *eh*) < 1254474178 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At some point I might reinstall by pirating the floppies instead; that way, IE won't be mandatory.) < 1254474185 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Docking Station should work on Win95 < 1254474194 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Link me up and I'll try. < 1254474197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once created a web page which, if opened in IE 4, would cause Windows 95 or 98 to crash hard < 1254474199 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics will probably be too slow to be usable, though. < 1254474202 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DamnSmallLinux can run in 32 MB of RAM < 1254474206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't actually put it on the web, though < 1254474210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later versions of IE fixed the bug < 1254474212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, what's that file:// url or whatever? < 1254474220 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :con/con right? < 1254474221 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: 95 can run with 4MiB and decently with like 16 < 1254474227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, drive:\con\con < 1254474232 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but it ain't free :-( < 1254474234 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\con\con < 1254474234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, c:\con\con < 1254474240 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: sure is < 1254474241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a different method, though < 1254474245 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and 4 MB might be a bit optimistic ... swapping would be slooooooowwwwwwww) < 1254474246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was hilarious on locked-down computers < 1254474247 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it for free < 1254474250 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I broke the law < 1254474251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it ended up killing Explorer < 1254474258 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well guys, I'm about to try concon < 1254474261 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NICE KNOWING YOU < 1254474264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning: you couldn't do anything, you couldn't log out, etc < 1254474279 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/downloads_more.php?id=22_0_8_0_M13 < 1254474281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95 just stopped responding to pings < 1254474302 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why he even wanted to test that ("con/con") is beyond me < 1254474309 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What caused that? < 1254474316 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254474321 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what caused what? < 1254474328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to refer to c:\con\con < 1254474330 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :con\con to have the effect that it did < 1254474334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a weird bug in Windows' legacy support < 1254474339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, DOS has a few special filenames < 1254474342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"con" is a reserved word in DOS/Win9x < 1254474347 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254474349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, when used with any extensoin, send the file to a device < 1254474350 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1254474350 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :con, aux, prn < 1254474360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(prn == lpt1, I think) < 1254474363 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prn? Windows recognizes.. < 1254474366 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I'm using an overclocker's tool to keep my system fans running low and use less power < 1254474368 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry) < 1254474371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you write to prn.exe, instead it'll go to the printer < 1254474376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: you're underclocking? < 1254474377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy con myfile.txt < 1254474378 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah < 1254474381 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Z (saves) < 1254474394 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor man's editor ;-) < 1254474428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever used QBasic? < 1254474435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists in UNIX too, cat > myfile.txt < 1254474439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ^D to save < 1254474442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, he has < 1254474447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird and I were discussing QBasic a while ago < 1254474449 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nope; Windows 95 doesn't run hlt on idle cycles by default, so it always uses the CPU at near-100%. This makes the cooling system work more and uses more power. I'm using a tool called Rain, designed to cool down the system by hogging all the idle cycles with hlt and thus allow more overclocking, to make my system fans less noisy and use less power. < 1254474455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have a legit copy of it on this computer < 1254474476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: what interrupts the system out of the hlts? < 1254474478 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This particular Rain installation is "Optimized for Intel Pentium Pro"; I had a wide range of selection... among ancient processors. < 1254474487 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it just does a busyloop < 1254474498 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/downloads_more.php?id=22_0_8_0_M13 is the link, but the sysreqs say that it needs IE 4 for networking capabilities < 1254474508 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hlt" is the same as "jmp $" but is interrupted by ... an interrupt! ;-) < 1254474517 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Probably for Winsock 2 or something < 1254474519 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I have < 1254474532 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w i n s i t e . c o m < 1254474532 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995 - 2009 < 1254474532 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CICA Windows FTP archives < 1254474532 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1991 - 1994 < 1254474537 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, won't be downloading it from there any time soon. < 1254474559 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1254474570 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, winsock? < 1254474575 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS' FTP site has tons of old stuff < 1254474578 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Creatures Docking Station < 1254474583 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Sgeo's link. < 1254474585 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winsite.com has apparently died. < 1254474593 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that thing huge? < 1254474608 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not huge enough for a WP article. < 1254474623 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP? < 1254474627 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia. < 1254474631 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254474632 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: care to link me a working link? < 1254474667 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for one < 1254474670 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me ask in Sine < 1254474681 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, all this for Docking Station? < 1254474685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever that is) < 1254474697 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this? < 1254474700 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clicked a few links. < 1254474703 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked for a working link. < 1254474712 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You greatly overestimate how much work I have, so far, put into this endeavour. < 1254474726 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what endeavour? what is the goal? < 1254474743 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if Docking Station works. < 1254474747 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your explanation got cut off < 1254474754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1254474758 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you stopped talking before you explained why it fails if you refer to con or whatever as a directory :-P < 1254474763 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to topic derailing < 1254474766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's just a bug < 1254474769 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a link, hold on < 1254474781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the case of someone using con as a directory was implemented at all < 1254474783 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from a Creatures fansite though < 1254474783 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://creatures.treesprite.com/dockingstation_195.exe < 1254474785 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"con" is a reserved word < 1254474786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the fact you get UB there isn't surprising < 1254474794 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: we've established that. < 1254474795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, I've been explaining what it was reserved for < 1254474804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :con == console < 1254474805 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know the story, I just meant for Sgeo__ < 1254474811 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, Rugxulo. < 1254474816 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1254474821 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other links on http://creatures.treesprite.com/Upgrades5.html#A don't work < 1254474832 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 minutes to download! < 1254474841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 30 MB, that's why I was skeptical < 1254474846 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got anything with a link faster than a T...0? :-P < 1254474852 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: 30MB downloads in like a minute on my connection < 1254474852 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(esp. since on company sells a service that slims Win98 down to like 8 MB install) < 1254474859 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a non-retarded server, which we don't have in this new link < 1254474864 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it's a game < 1254474868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know if you had fast internet or not < 1254474870 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphical content, sounds... are big < 1254474880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Messenger Service is no longer supported from Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008." Wahh, I want my pop-up spam. :/ < 1254474882 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should've used better compression < 1254474895 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8Mb/s isn't exactly "fast", what with Scandinavia and bordering areas having 50Mb/s as commonplace stuff < 1254474907 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F U, Fileplanet, for wanting me to register < 1254474910 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything is fast compared to dialup < 1254474913 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, let's just wave the magical wand and get every file under 1MB < 1254474927 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Fileplanet is shit, you have to wait in a queue to download your file < 1254474928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but typically people are lazy and use horrible compression < 1254474928 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes hours < 1254474943 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.4%; I guess this download might be fast enough. < 1254474957 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" MB (K\ bytes)" --Opera, attempting to tell me how fast it's downloading < 1254474968 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *entirely* perfect on 95... < 1254474977 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minimal Unicode, if any ...) < 1254474984 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,17080-order,1-page,1-c,alldownloads/description.html < 1254475014 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/ds/ds_more.php?id=552_0_16_0_C < 1254475025 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a glorified Tamagotchi < 1254475038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NanoPet or whatever < 1254475180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MB seems a pretty fast speed < 1254475233 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: the Creatures series is nothing like either of those < 1254475252 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your problem? you've been interestingly critical of it since the first link... < 1254475285 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the block represents the number bigger than infinity. < 1254475335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: oh, to me it's a lightning bolt < 1254475342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you can't see it though < 1254475365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not intentionally ... just sounds like a lot of trouble for little gain < 1254475377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, it stops being a lightning bolt if I copy-and-paste it elsewhere, and turns into a control-L < 1254475393 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, as fast as lightning < 1254475407 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it's clicking a few links, plus the game is amusing for a few minutes < 1254475414 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no more pointless than any "let's see if this works" < 1254475449 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what people used for win 95 development... gotta fix that fitt's law violation... < 1254475454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's control-L for controlled Lightning. < 1254475463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it's a [0012] except in a box. < 1254475467 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watcom and MSVC, presumably < 1254475473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked like that when I copied-and-pasted it elsewhere < 1254475478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DJGPP, too < 1254475485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it's a lightning bolt under Qt, but a box containing [0012] under GTK < 1254475490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, DJGPP! < 1254475504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP existed well before Cygwin (and subsequently MinGW) < 1254475508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that Borland thing. < 1254475513 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see [0000] < 1254475516 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not [0012] < 1254475518 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, forgot Borland < 1254475533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BC++ 55 is free < 1254475542 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digital Mars is too < 1254475543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a copy of Borland C++ 4 < 1254475551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really work properly on Windows XP < 1254475556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it didn't really work properly on Windows 95 < 1254475562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 4.5 too somewhere. < 1254475564 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1254475571 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid reason to learn Python: I didn't realize that there were free C/C++ compilers < 1254475572 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP for pure-Win32 development sounds misguided. < 1254475573 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious < 1254475581 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also why I first started to learn Java < 1254475591 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I meant for DOS/DPMI apps (although with third-party RSXNT/DJ you could do Win32) < 1254475592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full 4.5 version came with some pc magazine. < 1254475613 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; I'm looking to do Win32. It's gotta be simple to catch all mouseclicks in one pixel of the screen. < 1254475616 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Python ain't so bad, it's fans LOVE it < 1254475630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom supports Win32 also (as host or target) < 1254475636 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I like Python, but the reason I became interested in it in the first place... < 1254475637 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just have to make an always-on-top, above-taskbar borderless window whose only pixel is transparent, then catch clicks on that. < 1254475641 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd work, I think. < 1254475642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Studio 6 still works on 95, I think; at least on 98 it does. < 1254475654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you can actually do Win32 stuff in assembly too (see FASMW) < 1254475664 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's just a matter of calling whatever function brings up the start menu. < 1254475679 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why did Borland 4 have issues? < 1254475687 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do exactly? < 1254475701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: A true Windows developer would do that by synthesizing a mouse click event that clicks around the start button. < 1254475741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: most commonly, it would hang in the middle of compilation for no good reason < 1254475741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'd have to change bits of things around at random until it didn't < 1254475741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, linking tended to fail on 32-bit programs < 1254475751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and of course there's always LCC-win32. That was reasonably popular too. < 1254475753 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a DOS or Windows program? < 1254475757 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, that'll fail if you resize the task bar to be invisible with hacks. :P < 1254475757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I actually did that < 1254475759 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCC-win32 I've used < 1254475761 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1254475762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, simulate mouse clicks and keypresses < 1254475765 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I couldn't code C < 1254475765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do things < 1254475770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the easiest way, which is saying something < 1254475771 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it any good? < 1254475790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: lcc-win32 is one of the most common talking points over on comp.lang.c < 1254475792 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll call this sanity-restoring program Fitt. I mean, it's like Dr. Watson. < 1254475803 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's only because the developer is prolific < 1254475808 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fitt sits there, waiting for your click, intercepts it, and makes good things happen! < 1254475808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's relatively good, but has some things which are nonstandard for no good reason at all < 1254475816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has various misfeatues < 1254475818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well, yes < 1254475828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you a good idea of what's going on, though < 1254475844 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lcc-win32 was quite easy to install, iirc < 1254475845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impression I got was that the development of lcc-win32 was driven by the author's commercial customers < 1254475847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suggests OpenWatcom, no need of stinkin' MSVCRT.DLL that most compilers (ahem, MinGW) require < 1254475853 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a click-click-click affair, and I believe it has an editor built-in < 1254475858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of who ask for stupid things, and actually get them because they're paying < 1254475860 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: is OpenWatcom free or will I have to pirate it? < 1254475865 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free < 1254475867 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1254475868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open source < 1254475871 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.openwatcom.org < 1254475887 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the generated executables lean 'n mean or bloated in any way? < 1254475889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: Wikipedia says it's Fitts' law, not Fitt's law < 1254475893 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall something about watcom+bloated being said earlier < 1254475893 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 75 MB, but that's with all hosts and targets < 1254475893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the person was called Fitts < 1254475896 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oops < 1254475897 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bloated, no < 1254475900 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll call it Fitts, then < 1254475910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I saw a very recent example of registering a OCX control by sending a mouse click to start button (it even picked up the absolute screen size to position it "correctly" -- of course fails if the user moves the task bar), then "r" and "regsvr32 ..." and "return" keypress events. < 1254475911 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as small as MinGW only because it (thankfully) rejects the buggy MSVCRT.DLL < 1254475923 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like the idea of having Fitts himself sit inside my computer, intercepting clicks to make them do the Right Thing. < 1254475923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still smaller than DJGPP, though (leaner library) < 1254475928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no POSIX, though < 1254475942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, it actually went and simulated the keypresses for Start | Run...? < 1254475955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous on about 3 levels < 1254475969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it, though+ < 1254475971 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I don't think I even have msvcrt.dll < 1254475973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw a nice sample Win32 GUI app in < 1k < 1254475976 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1254475977 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :-) < 1254475979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the amusing thing, of course, is that the WinExec API call, which is roughly equivalent to system() in Unix, has been deprecated) < 1254475992 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SpawnProcess, no? < 1254476014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably added a replacement < 1254476015 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe it's just an example? < 1254476016 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS also deprecated tmpnam etc. I think < 1254476019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard of that one, it must be newer than my time < 1254476024 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forest.impress.co.jp/article/1999/11/16/lcc_win32.gif lcc-win32 looks happily painless; type 'n click compile 'n done. < 1254476028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: but then, they deprecated snprintf < 1254476030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: It was in the internets, I don't remember the story aroudn it. < 1254476042 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people deprecate lots of stuff for no good reason < 1254476044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more amusingly, their replacement has an extra argument for the size of the buffer < 1254476060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone's ever used it with buffer size != maximum characters to print + 1 < 1254476061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except as a test < 1254476086 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom has an IDE too < 1254476088 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We would also like to thank Perforce Software for providing us with a license to use their excellent source code management system" < 1254476094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1254476107 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I want to use software made by people who think that (a) using Perforce is a good idea and (b) getting a license for Perforce for open source software is a good idea? < 1254476108 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus himself used to use it before he wrote Git < 1254476109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, spam fone calls < 1254476111 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1254476113 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used BitKeeper < 1254476120 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about 1,000,000,000,000x better < 1254476122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Perl that used to use perforce < 1254476124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they changed to git < 1254476131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember that there was some controversy (usenet- or otherwise) w.r.t. Jacob Navia, lcc-win32's developer. < 1254476137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all, use whatever you like, but ... Watcom existed since a long time (late 80s) < 1254476138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a usenet controversy < 1254476140 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bad idea to use bitkeeper for linux, but perforce has the added benefit of being really, terribly awfully bad < 1254476147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, early 80s, but the 386 C/C++ is late 80s < 1254476165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watcom's a classic, yes; but lcc-win32 is potentially simpler. < 1254476182 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any controversy offhand re: Navia, but I know he's a bit stubborn < 1254476188 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler? I doubt it < 1254476207 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaand here comes docking station < 1254476221 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1254476224 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: http://www.forest.impress.co.jp/article/1999/11/16/lcc_win32.gif looks very simple to me, for getting the development done < 1254476228 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it's just the installer :P < 1254476235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current lcc-win32 says: "Requirements: You need at least Windows 2000, the compiler and command line utiltities will work with older Windows operating systems without any trouble, but the IDE may make use of features not available in older systems and is therefor not supposed to run." < 1254476237 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCC-Win32 is only for non-commercial use, OpenWatcom is for anything (so Perforce is moot, IMHO) < 1254476247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1254476247 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to sell this :P < 1254476252 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no surprise, those bastards < 1254476253 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: eh, lame shit < 1254476263 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: "Error 0 running command .\installblast.exe --temp" < 1254476265 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try to extract manually < 1254476268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lcc-win32 is shareware, sort-of; it's free to use non-commercially, you can get a commercial licence by paying < 1254476269 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom runs on OS/2, Windows, Linux (beta), DOS :-) < 1254476279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/runs/& natively/ < 1254476292 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then, hook me up with an openwatcom installer link w/ IDE :P < 1254476295 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm teh laze < 1254476303 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure it's good, I've just never used it and don't see any need for it < 1254476336 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: okay, extracting the installer < 1254476344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, snprintf_s no longer exists, that makes sense < 1254476352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, sprintf_s strikes me as the most ridiculous function I've ever seen < 1254476354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/openwatcom/open-watcom-c-win32-1.8.exe < 1254476358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically snprintf but worse < 1254476372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS is weird < 1254476379 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The INSTALLBLAST.EXE file is linked to missing export WININET.DLL:InternetAudodial." < 1254476386 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: guess i'd have to upgrade IE < 1254476394 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just use OW < 1254476398 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?! < 1254476399 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254476402 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about < 1254476404 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles itself, for heaven's sake < 1254476411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bound to be "good enough" < 1254476411 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf i'm talking about docking station you doofus < 1254476420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254476425 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254476427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it has a scary line suggesting that sprintf doesn't check that the format string is valid, whereas sprintf_s does < 1254476429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: Yes, but you can replace that with Open Watcom. It's "good enough". :p < 1254476429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1254476433 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: or i could just fish out the WinInet.dll from IE 4's installer... < 1254476436 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, huh, so the sysreqs lied about what IE4 was needed for? < 1254476448 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE4 is needed for its internet functions. < 1254476452 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1254476456 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have IE4. < 1254476457 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is it needed for in the installer? < 1254476467 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To register an account or something, I guess. < 1254476501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... snprintf can be used to tell you the length of the buffer you need < 1254476506 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that watcom link is strangely slow < 1254476508 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is the exe? < 1254476510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, sprintf_s causes your program to crash if it's too small < 1254476519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254476528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: 74M < 1254476533 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254476631 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!seen mtve < 1254476638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, didn't think that'd work < 1254476650 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow, the blue background of the openwatcom installer < 1254476651 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow ow ow my EYES < 1254476655 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254476703 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, installing into C:\WATCOM < 1254476758 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Setup needs to modify AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS." < 1254476772 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite worrying, considering both were obsolete by windows 95 < 1254476774 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just do it manually < 1254476783 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my autoexec is empty and i have no config.sys, so it can't hurt < 1254476786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 = MS-DOS 7.0 + Win 4.0 < 1254476799 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still boots as DOS < 1254476803 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just more hidden (barely) < 1254476804 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :config.sys is useless, though, because everything has windows drivers :P < 1254476810 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at the time < 1254476814 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoexec is useless because, well, not much adds to the PATH I guess < 1254476815 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still supported DOS drivers < 1254476819 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: annoyances.org agrees with me < 1254476823 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's true < 1254476826 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rare is the device with only DOS drivers < 1254476836 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such a device is indeed deprecated, so to speak < 1254476837 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that rare, in 1995 at least < 1254476857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we still have drivers in 2009 (UIDE) ;-) < 1254476893 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, autoexec.bat is called by the shell (command.com) < 1254476907 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. 4DOS is free now, you should grab it < 1254476921 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what autoexec is < 1254476922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS exists < 1254476924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does DOSBox < 1254476927 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254476929 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously :-) < 1254476930 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally irrelevant < 1254476933 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you mention that < 1254476933 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254476936 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4DOS is a command shell for windows :P < 1254476938 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a bit stubborn < 1254476942 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is < 1254476943 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? < 1254476950 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4DOS works very well under Win9x < 1254476957 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1254476959 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally irrelevant @ ais523 < 1254476960 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4NT (or whatever it's called now) is for later versions < 1254476963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had some ndis2-drivers-only network card at some point. < 1254476963 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mentioning freedos and dosbox < 1254476963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254476969 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1254476977 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the single-most annoying feature of windows 9x is that your mouse movement becomes choppy and keys are dropped if your CPU is being used a lot < 1254476978 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just trying to help you ;-) < 1254476984 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even rendering a web page does that to 95... < 1254476998 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista loses keys too, so nothing's perfect < 1254477007 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, that's not true of all Windows OSes? < 1254477018 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to preemptive vs. cooperative < 1254477022 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tried to access the address http://www.jpsoft.com/, which is currently unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly spelled and punctuated, then try reloading the page. < 1254477034 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: works fine in XP, so probably in NT 4.0 up < 1254477040 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe starting in 2000, dunno < 1254477044 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4dos.zzl.org < 1254477048 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean really choppy < 1254477049 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, actually, it doesn't work fine in XP for me < 1254477052 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in start rendering a page, can't move the mouse < 1254477054 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1254477056 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for seconds < 1254477067 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a VM bug < 1254477073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe it or not, VMs aren't perfect < 1254477080 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address you have entered has not been activated. < 1254477098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/user/4dos/ < 1254477140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html < 1254477145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with the question 3 bonus < 1254477154 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asktog is wonderful < 1254477165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a right-handed mouse, I find hitting the bottom-right corner of the screen really hard as the mouse keeps getting stuck against my hand < 1254477172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can't actually move in that direction far enough < 1254477188 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fitts' law sort of assumes you're not putting your mouse on a cliff with your hand bent over backwards < 1254477197 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that's an exaggeration, but it concerns a mouse held reasonably, on a decent surface < 1254477203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I thought the answer "the pixel under the cursor" couldn't be given because you didn't know exactly where the cursor was < 1254477215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I rest my wrist on the table when using a mouse < 1254477225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to move it in order to be able to move it a long distance down and right < 1254477228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's good for other directions < 1254477268 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: do I need 4dos800 or 4dos800patches? < 1254477275 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 4dos800.zip < 1254477289 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this is kind of pointless; I can't use the ms dos window, remember? < 1254477299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops ;-) < 1254477323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: what goes wrong when you try? < 1254477340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen goes insane, hard reset needed (probably a VirtualBox bug) < 1254477363 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only happens with vesa driver, not vga, iirc < 1254477373 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the vesa driver is a third-party thingamajic) < 1254477378 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinigamajig < 1254477414 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone knows any vesa drivers for windows that support high resolutions (like 1280x1024), that'd be great :P < 1254477431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254477452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any VESA should support that, probably just another buggy implementation :-/ < 1254477460 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know < 1254477464 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual VESA driver is solid < 1254477470 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can support such high resolutions < 1254477483 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably triggers a vbox bug. < 1254477486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should port the VirtualBox guest additions to the 9x series, now that you have the Watcom there and all. < 1254477493 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geocities.com/bearwindows/vbe9x.htm < 1254477497 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, VBox has various bugs (esp. for older 16-bit-ish OSes) < 1254477503 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to go to sleep a few hours ago < 1254477505 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good idea. I'll do that right after I stick my head in a blender :P < 1254477512 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no alternative for me as far as I can tell < 1254477518 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1254477520 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open watcom adds two menus < 1254477524 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for programs, one for help < 1254477535 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rearrange / edit those < 1254477539 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't worry about it though < 1254477540 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's a lot of menu items < 1254477551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, you could've just "unzipped" the .EXE as it's just a sfx) < 1254477564 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this IDE is *seriously* 16-bit < 1254477569 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yes, but it works < 1254477577 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right down to using that win 3 font < 1254477581 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night < 1254477584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite < 1254477588 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254477643 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know any vesa drivers for windows? < 1254477658 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear Windows didn't have one? < 1254477725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: Did you try the "obsolete" "MANUAL" VirtualBox-specific build of that vbe9x you linked to? < 1254477733 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: That's what I'm using... < 1254477757 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The VirtualBox forums guide to 9x says that the VBox-specific one actually "has issues". < 1254477771 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might, though, if there's no other vesa drivers for 9x. < 1254477815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scitech Display Doctor might have had some video-drivery things in the latest releases, though I'm not sure whether it overlapped at all with 9x. < 1254477819 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a QEMU for Mac (called "Q" or something)? < 1254477838 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it works better (since VirtualBox is just a heavily-modified QEMU with a GUI) < 1254477855 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VESA is part of the BIOS, not part of the OS < 1254477865 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS can use VESA < 1254477881 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you mean Univbe < 1254477913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It was renamed Scitech Display Doctor, and I thought it acquired some display-drivery things later; it used to be just "provide the VESA bios functions for non-vesa-supporting cards" when it was called univbe. < 1254477938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that's the feeling I got; I didn't really follow the development of it later. < 1254477944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.sac.sk/pub/sac/graph/uvbe51a.zip < 1254477959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I think SDD had Univbe in it, not sure < 1254477981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In version 5.2, it was renamed to Scitech Display Doctor. However, UniVBE remained to be the name used for the actual driver." < 1254478008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Version 6.5 introduced the ability to use Scitech Display Doctor as wrapper video driver." I think that's what I was thinking about, though I'm not quite sure what a "wrapper video driver" exactly is. < 1254478044 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu is so slow. < 1254478045 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q is just a gui < 1254478060 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I guess to make Windows use a higher-level API to behind the scenes access BIOS interrupts < 1254478061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SciTech Display Doctor includes the only universal Windows 95 display driver. SciTech Display Doctor is compatible with over 250different graphics chips. If you have ever struggled with display drivers or experienced problems like slow display speeds or system crashes, SciTech Display Doctor is the solution you need." < 1254478064 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of Scitech Display Doctor in relation to this stuff, I think. < 1254478079 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU is indeed slow ... does KQemu not work on Mac OS X? < 1254478094 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Ubuntu. < 1254478102 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right < 1254478103 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess it might, but still. I have this mental image of QEMU = dog slow. < 1254478107 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a iMac (confusing) < 1254478116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty slow, yes < 1254478123 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBox uses some JIT stuff to make it lots faster < 1254478132 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VT-X helps even more < 1254478133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find sdd6.53 in http://download.chip.eu/en/SciTech-Display-Doctor-6.53_35301.html# -- it seems to do the download without registration there if you just click enough. < 1254478136 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMacs are x86 machines, you know. < 1254478140 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just use EFI instead of BIOS. < 1254478148 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1254478165 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not firsthand < 1254478208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For better graphic [in VirtualBox] in WinDOS you can install scitech display doctor 7." Well, someone suggests that, anyway. < 1254478222 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aight then. < 1254478252 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma download it with ma meggabits. < 1254478258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if 6.53 works as well; it was legally available from their FTP at some point, which might not have been the case with 7. < 1254478277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their FTP site seems kaput (according to Wikipedia and my own attempt just now) < 1254478278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could find 7 too from the interwebs, though. < 1254478293 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 5.x worked better with older cards < 1254478294 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://majorgeeks.com/SciTech_Display_Doctor_d382.html How about a BETA?!!!!1111 < 1254478296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa Win95 era < 1254478305 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This card is going to show up as generic to anything. < 1254478314 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's just VirtualBox's fake card. < 1254478326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm not sure 5.x had the Win95 video driver parts; 6.53 should have them, maybe. < 1254478332 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1254478381 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bing cashback" ... man they push too hard :-P < 1254478397 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is waiting for the day, real soon now, when XBox 360 is "obsolete" < 1254478406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's next? the xbox 719? < 1254478413 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watcom's dialog editor seems quite nice for designing, say, an option thingy. < 1254478421 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can be bothered to combine those two menus. < 1254478431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was all a marketing gimmick to offset dumb customers saying "wow, PS3 sounds better than Xbox2" (allegedly) < 1254478438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The xbox 129600, maybe. < 1254478448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBox++ ;-) < 1254478454 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBoxXP < 1254478464 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I hate Windows installers that set their own backdrop and hide everything else. < 1254478470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YBox. < 1254478473 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBox4 (when it's really XBox 3.1) < 1254478476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We've jumped one extra-major version". < 1254478492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe the "why box" doesn't sound so good. < 1254478492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBobx < 1254478500 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl, it used the internet to CHECK FOR AN UPDATE in the installer; ran into a 320 moved temporarily, probably squatted. < 1254478500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, if Nintendo can run with Wii... < 1254478510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Wii was pretty bad < 1254478525 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers all the perverted jokes for days after that ... < 1254478533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power glove, it's so bad. (I get that connotation every time someone says "bad".) < 1254478542 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey fizzie < 1254478545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robby the Robot! < 1254478553 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will operate for 21 days and give a reminder mesage for 10 seconds each time my computer boots < 1254478556 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hitting a key will skip that < 1254478557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: how did it react? < 1254478557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the context was "Nintendo", it sounded appropriate this time. < 1254478557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNES lightgun! SNES mouse! < 1254478570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: < 1254478571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SciTech Display Doctor 6.53 < 1254478571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports: Windows and DOS. < 1254478571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Version Code < 1254478572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reg Code: 00000-173D626E-02002 < 1254478572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full Name: 6.x Free Edition < 1254478580 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my next question! < 1254478581 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254478581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, how did the limited-time shareware programs react to being uninstalled and reinstalled? < 1254478598 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ais523 has a heart attack from fizzie's flagrant violation of the law* < 1254478607 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they buried it in the registry or sth < 1254478608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: That's directly from Scitech, you know. < 1254478611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1254478625 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they don't sell it anymore < 1254478627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely pirates would just write a registry-diffing program, or something? < 1254478634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, quite many did try to leave all kinds of droppings around the file system and registry. < 1254478641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pirates will (and do) crack anything and everything < 1254478656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know it's pointless trying to stop it < 1254478659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even (rarely) for actually good reasons ;-) < 1254478676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO it's pointless putting DRM on things in the first place, because it only hurts legit users < 1254478685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, pirates can run it whatever you do... < 1254478686 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't consider copyright legitimate, then piracy is the obvious thing to do if you're bored < 1254478694 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have the time, rather < 1254478698 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by piracy i meant cracking < 1254478706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1254478710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two go together < 1254478715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of those actual "keep track of registry and disk changes for cleaning up after lazy uninstallers" have a side effect of accidentally breaking that "DRM". < 1254478717 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're spoiled with free software nowadays, though < 1254478718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally < 1254478732 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1254478743 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest way to get a pirated application circulating is to buy it and distribute the license key < 1254478748 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how common that is, though < 1254478749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my favoured method for breaking that sort of DRM is to use Wine < 1254478751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: Are you saying no just to be negative? < 1254478752 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, reboot time < 1254478764 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254478767 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and how does that make you feel?" < 1254478776 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and you think shut up you suck because of why?" < 1254478800 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody remember Dr. Sbaitso? ;-) < 1254478860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is it because of the people you hang around with that you say legally imposed culture reduction is cabbage brained?" (courtesy of M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead) < 1254478895 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, they removed yow.lines in latest versions due to copyright (ironically) < 1254478921 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, lots of Zippy the Pinhead sales out there (not) < 1254478979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ehird95: Areware pround with that was all the people younded appropriate this timposed culturee Edit was all the perverted distribute the law*" (courtesy of copy-paste and M-x dissociated-press). < 1254479003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pround" is a nice word, it should have a meaning. < 1254479014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A combination of the english words "Proud" and "Fond". Often used when a sense of joyous ecstacy overcomes your ability to comprehend spacing between words resulting the the binding the the afformentioned base words." < 1254479016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it has. < 1254479034 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is goofy < 1254479052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was from the urban dictionary, so maybe it's not all that established. < 1254479079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of the results seem to be just misspellings of proud. < 1254479123 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yeah, I wouldn't trust Urban Dictionary < 1254479132 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never heard of "pround", at least < 1254479132 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254479146 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, though, maybe Shakespeare used it < 1254479150 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no supported vga chip found, waah, i'm a retarded driver of retardedness < 1254479153 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my name is sswhatever < 1254479180 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual override time < 1254479196 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254479199 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a list of chips and shit < 1254479202 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't generic vesa < 1254479204 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is specific vesa < 1254479297 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1254479350 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VESA itself is the standard, but all the behind-the-scenes stuff is non-standard < 1254479384 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bearwindows stuff works mostly :P < 1254479413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, UniVBE originally was written to provide standards-compatible VESA support for specific video cards. I really did think SDD, when they added the "use directly as a Win9x driver", also added the option to use that driver as a generic VESA thing. < 1254479449 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't work. < 1254479453 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to remove a windows control panel btw? < 1254479481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in Windows 3.1 I think you could just delete the file from the directory and it would work < 1254479487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if that still works, nor where the directory is < 1254479493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove what exactly? the process? file? menu? < 1254479496 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it. < 1254479497 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the panel. < 1254479499 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's non-standard. < 1254479501 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not windows. < 1254479502 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone installed it. < 1254479520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :panel under Control Panel? < 1254479534 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254479543 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no uninstaller? < 1254479562 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1254479574 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no easy way (that I know of) < 1254479580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't those just .cpl files? Or was that win3.1? < 1254479600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there was some sort of registry registration for them. < 1254479609 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you are < 1254479611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can find some tweakery programs from the interwebs to do it. < 1254479632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qemu emulates three different video cards -- "Cirrus Logic GD5446 Video card. All Windows versions starting from Windows 95 should recognize and use this graphic card" by default, alternatively "Standard VGA card with Bochs VBE extensions" (for winxp vesa-2 driver) or "VMWare SVGA-II compatible adapter" -- it's a bit funny that virtualbox does only their own. < 1254479632 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just leave it, it's not hurting anything is it? < 1254479659 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, it's some software licensing pay-trial-extort bullshit and I want it gone... < 1254479663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: if you knew ehird, you wouldn't say that < 1254479665 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annyway, reboot time < 1254479670 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway < 1254479682 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254479714 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this just to run Creatures whatever? < 1254479741 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ain't knocking it, just seems a bit painful < 1254479820 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254479860 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254479868 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, back to bearwindows. < 1254479873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I think TweakUI actually has a control-panel-icon-destroyomator. < 1254479910 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll install tweakui. < 1254479911 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. < 1254479921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just removing the .cpl file might still work, that's mentioned on one page. < 1254480033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds risky < 1254480043 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it was ever meant to be uninstalled < 1254480119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000136.htm says you can, though. < 1254480180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it removes just the control panel tab, nothing else the program might've installed. < 1254480834 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to sleep now < 1254480838 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with Win95 < 1254480839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254481547 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to install 95 and then replace the kernel with nt 4, right < 1254481549 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1254481617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in the abstract sense of "should in a perfect world". < 1254481644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the whole M-x dissociated-press result to pastebin, since there were some pretty funny bits in it: http://pastebin.com/m40fba1a0 < 1254481646 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with hacking < 1254481674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"negatime shareware" sounds very hi-tech, for example. < 1254481696 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xp and later versions" wrt tweakui < 1254481699 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1254481733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? You obviously want the PowerToys'95 set, incl. TweakUI. < 1254481759 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the article < 1254481760 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1254481772 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Windows XP and later revisions of Windows users can easily enable and remove Control Panel icons with the TweakUI program. < 1254481796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, just removes the .cpl, it's listed on that page too. < 1254481923 0 :ehird95_!n=ehird@91.105.113.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254481923 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254481932 0 :ehird95_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird95 < 1254481995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to screenshots tweakui 1.33 (which is 9x still) does have a "control panel" tab, but I can't find a screenshot of the contents of the tab, so I don't know what it can do. < 1254482012 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254482039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254482048 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command prompts still fail < 1254482054 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know about any _generic_ windows vesa driver? < 1254482089 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there is one < 1254482092 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1254482188 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1254482191 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using one right now < 1254482197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usability fail: Evolution changes its icon when I switch between inbox and calendar modes < 1254482198 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geocities.com/bearwindows/vbe9x.htm < 1254482206 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Evolution is one gigantic usability fail < 1254482219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? it's the most just-works of any email client I've ever seen < 1254482233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderbird feels clunky after using it, Outlook feels clunky regardless of what else I've been using < 1254482242 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Outlook, except more enterprisey and more "unique" (i.e. inconsistent with everything else) < 1254482266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe I prefer the Evolution way of doing things, then < 1254482278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything else does the same thing and Evolution does something different, that would explain a lot < 1254482298 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution is, at least, very un-GNOME I'm sure you can agree. < 1254482311 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it has like 5 applications in one (calendar, tasks, email, ...) < 1254482320 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, its preferences pane is fucking mammoth! < 1254482321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of weird < 1254482327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system feels like it was built around Evolution < 1254482329 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For three, its UI is complicated < 1254482332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Evolution being added into it < 1254482339 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For four, it doesn't really feel native < 1254482340 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet < 1254482340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads apport < 1254482343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a crashbug < 1254482343 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution is part of GNOME < 1254482351 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda shitty. < 1254482356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: most of the things in the DE seem to integrate with it < 1254482363 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they talk together, sure. < 1254482368 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Evolution itself does not feel GNOME. < 1254482376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, it doesn't < 1254482380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't feel KDE either, though < 1254482383 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I dislike people calling Evolution integrated; it's not integrated in the way you really feel. < 1254482384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something of its own < 1254482398 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's GNOME, uncanny valley, turn left at preferences street < 1254482414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Firefox would be a good comparison < 1254482422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't particularly gnomish either, and has lots of preferences < 1254482448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnomish mines. < 1254482468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they're both very good at persistency < 1254482472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of Gnome's strong points < 1254482480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ironically, Firefox > Evolution at persistency) < 1254482561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it had already been reported < 1254482571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixed in karmic, wontfix in jaunty-proposed < 1254482579 0 :linf!n=nikita@93-81-18-119.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1254482591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lament < 1254482598 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeeeee < 1254482599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing, don't know for certain...) < 1254482632 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO WORLD :-D < 1254482647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but out of all the Russian people called Nikita, one of them is a lot more likely to come to this channel than the others < 1254482723 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pochemu? < 1254482729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254482762 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pochemu - why < 1254482766 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254482793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just based on what's happened in the past < 1254482795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm extrapolating < 1254482799 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you learn English, and I'll Russian < 1254482801 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1254482835 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you psychic? < 1254482877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just relying on whois data < 1254482896 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahhahaha < 1254482900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I see an unusual nick in here, I try to work out if it's someone new, or otherwise, who it is < 1254482959 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nickname is unusual? < 1254482992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not usually in this channel < 1254483062 0 :ehird95_!n=ehird@91.104.242.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254483066 0 :ehird95_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1254483077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that, ais523, is why i want a new graphics driver :P < 1254483090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashed? < 1254483124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a dos program takes focus < 1254483127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254483128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it starts < 1254483132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphics go all weird < 1254483133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to reest < 1254483134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset < 1254483136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be virtualbox bug < 1254483139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still occurs < 1254483140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi linf < 1254483154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ehird95 to die < 1254483214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perils of unregistered nicks < 1254483247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live dangerously, god damn < 1254483248 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: privet =))) < 1254483273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of a sudden the minimize/maximize animations are really slow... < 1254483299 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my info says that I am Nikita? < 1254483312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's your username < 1254483316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to your nick, which is linf < 1254483330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC usernames are more or less irrelevant nowadays, tbg < 1254483331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tbh < 1254483356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your real name is "purple"; coincidentally, x-chat's rainbow-colors-for-nicks thing has allocated a reasonably purple color for the nick, too. < 1254483385 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if not written, that I am Nikita, how do you know that I am Nikita? < 1254483398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could be lying < 1254483405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your client /thinks/ you are Nikita, somewhere < 1254483441 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client - a psychic =))) < 1254483455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be your username on your own computer < 1254483460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common way to determine what username to use on IRC < 1254483473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people often use their real name for that < 1254483474 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254483502 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who wants to have a friend in Russia? For me, it is important to better learn English < 1254483541 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not hide ... < 1254483552 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.104.253.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254483558 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is your name? < 1254483571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my whois data, it's hidden < 1254483579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably I should trust it on that < 1254483595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, forgetting who I was would be embarassing... < 1254483639 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not understand nothing ... I do not know very well English < 1254483658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a channel ##english on Freenode to help people learn English < 1254483708 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I are having many english speakings thanking much < 1254483709 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want to talk on the topic and teach the esoteric < 1254483751 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: we're not about esoterica < 1254483756 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just esoteric programming languages < 1254483761 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254483783 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=(( < 1254483796 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I PUT ON MY WIZARD ROBE AND HAT < 1254483797 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is mostly about technology < 1254483805 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1254483808 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russian music what do you know? < 1254483814 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooks for feet... Eyes... Made of wood! < 1254483817 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-[ < 1254483821 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russian music, now there's a topic. < 1254483831 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not esoterica nor esolangs. Has anyone come in here for russian music before? < 1254483862 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andestend < 1254483879 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not understand < 1254483882 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-[ < 1254483882 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: this isn't the channel for you. sorry < 1254483885 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1254483901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You mean (this is obviously not my real name) is not actually your real name? "What." < 1254483937 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad... Why someone does not like Russian =((( < 1254484002 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't actually say that. < 1254484063 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want interesting international communication! :-[ < 1254484270 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jioretjoi5 < 1254484353 0 :jioretjoi5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird95 < 1254484365 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i just realised my name is appropriate in more ways than one < 1254484388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254484444 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.01 points for recognizing why < 1254484633 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you have windows 95? < 1254484637 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are 95 years old? < 1254484642 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 95 penises? < 1254484651 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are 95% complete? < 1254484707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... were you born in 1995? < 1254484750 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254484755 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.01 points to you! < 1254484773 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: first one is "am using" which was the original intention < 1254484813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, I didn't have time for my guess: you create a similar combustion results than a 95 % iso-octane / 5 % heptane fuel mixture. < 1254484827 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1254484850 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95 should have a mouse-updater in the kernel so that you never have a laggy mouse. :P < 1254484936 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... there really needs to be something like task manager in 2000 < 1254484942 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95 =-O < 1254484944 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can see what processes are making your system lag < 1254484945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for a moment I thought you meant mouse driver updates in the kernel < 1254484951 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1254484955 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: yep < 1254484966 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:o < 1254484977 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use linux < 1254484980 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1254485027 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: i love you frend < 1254485030 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-[ < 1254485079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: And which OS do you use? < 1254485080 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i ask fnord about africa) is an artifact of a particular form? i lack unicode terminals. :) you guys always have something to match ( a b)) using curried terms. how might you write the rest of her sf is good, i surely have *that* ;p < 1254485103 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy :-[ < 1254485111 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254485166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the idea of trying to learn English from fungot has just crossed my mind < 1254485167 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie'll be there to make it print out _every_ replacement operation, and then some < 1254485183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was... really in-context, and made sense < 1254485188 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254485190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was even a plausible reply to my comment < 1254485195 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only made some sort of sense, mind < 1254485198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the best fungot responses ever < 1254485198 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll hang around here. been poking through the wiki < 1254485208 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1254485215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1254485216 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1254485217 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might get ideas about rewriting himself... < 1254485218 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ааааааааааааааааааааааааааааааа < 1254485224 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that fungot, mmkay? < 1254485226 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: it will be too much. i just got linked to " t" without the leading dot as one of the dirs in load-path, after adding an autoload and the filename association, i got all excited about going to sleep < 1254485246 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, messing with drugs like that can mess you up, who gets excited about sleeping? < 1254485248 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay clean fungot! < 1254485248 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: that's right. it was in this channel < 1254485259 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you could have done it in private... < 1254485267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should start selling the code to various schools as a tool for learning English. < 1254485268 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are we sure fungot hasn't actually spontaneously emerged as a strong AI? < 1254485269 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: i don't even want to know me!!! so that will probably work better < 1254485269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't HackEgo here? I want to qdb that fungot comment... < 1254485269 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that method shouldn't be underestimated though, just sign on and listen to some. i just wanted to ping ehird, as i said < 1254485302 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254485309 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it being topical! < 1254485327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i don't even want to know me!!!" is a good quote too, but potentially verbatim < 1254485344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is being done using the magic of YOUR BRAIN, which can make topical out of just about anything. < 1254485350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254485357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes is more topical than other times < 1254485429 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it referred to rewriting itself in another language as too much and described a horrific linker accident where, after adding an entry to the linker autoload path and setting up a file association its brain chemistry made it excited about going to sleep, and then mentioned that it was in this chnnel. < 1254485430 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still I love Madonna < 1254485432 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254485438 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's remarkably coherent, even for fungot :P < 1254485439 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: you should have called it ++c c-- --c) and ( compose-event-monitor thunk2 em), when a context of an interpreter < 1254485451 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really bad name, fungot. < 1254485452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: when tiny-clos allocates a generic function, it's a fnord < 1254485468 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resists the urge to fork tiny-clos and rewrite it to call them fnords < 1254485470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, that's an /incredibly/ bad name < 1254485474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to add it to esolang/ < 1254485485 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even tell what the name is < 1254485494 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++cc c-- --c) and ( compose-event-monitor thunk2 em)? < 1254485494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither can I < 1254485498 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*++c < 1254485502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my first guess < 1254485503 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++c c-- --c? < 1254485505 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1254485519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should fix the whitespacing, though. < 1254485522 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's Scheme is so very stylistic; he loves putting that space after the opening paren. < 1254485523 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: is on the infinite machine; the same solution. < 1254485526 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: snap! < 1254485536 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sweet, I love infinity machines! < 1254485536 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: and i'll do the next excersise... thx for the ref :) thanks < 1254485545 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but I want to use it, fungot :| < 1254485564 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la la < 1254485564 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph. < 1254485625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time I need a name for a project, I'll just go http://pastebin.com/m20f7a77c < 1254485654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"++c, tail of the stream maker" has a nice ring to it. < 1254485660 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocates one (bad) is a silly name. < 1254485672 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[you should have called it sins: sins is not scheme at all is useful. each implementation does things slightly differently the latter is nonstandard, but most implementations have "real" programming language.]] < 1254485677 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs esolang wikiing < 1254485678 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stat < 1254485711 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you should have called it pinkfluffyponies and it would act like minion does in lisp it does wiki lookups" :D < 1254485733 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you should have called it pinkfluffyponies and it would run infinitely slowly or so. was there ever a gigantic hoax in computer science?" yes, infinitely slow pink fluffy ponies < 1254485861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit too fixated on pink fluffy ponies (and whose fault is that, eh?) and that silly "++c c-- --c" name. < 1254486089 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1254486111 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd better learn how to work the Open Watcom IDE. < 1254486128 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you ever used it? you seem like the type to < 1254486145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't < 1254486150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had heard of it, but no more < 1254486155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /am/ probably the type to, just haven't < 1254486177 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite 16-bit. < 1254486182 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In feel, that is. < 1254486189 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet managed to create and edit a file in a project... < 1254486261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another fungot gem: "believes in santa, or possibly codepoints." < 1254486261 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i noticed." i was trying to use lambda yet? it's s'posed to < 1254486278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, often when kids learn santa isn't real, they start to believe in codepoints instead. < 1254486297 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the programs have a greyed out help menu item, and a separate top-level start menu folder for just the help books... < 1254486300 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in windows help format) < 1254486310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which windows help format? < 1254486315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are at least 3 < 1254486329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as we're talking windows 95, it'll either be winhelp (or winhlp32), or chm < 1254486403 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winhlp32, I believe < 1254486415 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's formatted, but not htmlcrap < 1254486425 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't chm a 98 thing? < 1254486466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, could be < 1254486526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :August 1997 HTML Help 1.0 (HH 1.0) was released with Internet Explorer 4. < 1254486526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :February 1998 HTML Help 1.1a shipped with Windows 98. < 1254486529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a bit newer. < 1254486560 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :older, you mean < 1254486561 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than 98 < 1254486577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. A bit newer than your '95. < 1254486631 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254486654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they doing nowadays? Wikipedia speaks about something called "Microsoft Help 2" with .hxs files, and an upcoming "Microsoft Help 3" where a .mshc file is just a renamed zip with XHTML 1.x and images/other-data inside. < 1254486654 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two years newer. < 1254486667 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just whatever they had in XP. < 1254486678 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the question/answer checkboxes "wizard" troubleshooters; all useless. < 1254486755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2008 Microsoft relented and released a download of WinHlp32.exe for Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607". I like the use of the word "relent" there. < 1254486829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just use Info format < 1254486934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with this channel? I say something obviously ridiculous and nobody responds... < 1254486993 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I had mIRC minimized to tray and hadn't hit it for a few minutes < 1254487035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got lost in the Texinfo reference manual. :p < 1254487096 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't ever seen a .hxs file < 1254487127 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even .chm seems to be loosing on the ebookz market to pdf. < 1254487203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hxs files are used in the modern (.NET and later) Visual Studio help system. < 1254487216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look quite messy, though it might be just that the help system is so large. < 1254487231 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so i stumbled upon them without knowing. < 1254487250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft Help 2.x is the help engine used in Microsoft Visual Studio 2002/2003/2005/2008 and Office 2007." < 1254487267 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the online MSDN also looks messy, I guess thats mostly a Microsoft-thing < 1254487313 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft has a talent for hiding good documentation in the most awkward places. < 1254487471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSDN also has a talent for self-contradiction < 1254487481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because searching it keeps finding the wrong version of the API, or whatever < 1254487899 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254487910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1254488064 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-40.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254488349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254488372 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254488438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird95 < 1254488544 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254488569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says something about the priorities of people: things have started to collect in the "fremantle-extras" Maemo 5 repository; discounting supporting libraries and such, there are 6 real packages; and one of them is the robotfindskitten game. < 1254488634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously http://rfk.garage.maemo.org/ is what really needs to be there before the official device launch. < 1254488738 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-96.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254489016 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels of x < 1254489056 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254489302 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I've added Fitts.c to the project C:\Code\Fitts\Fitts.wpj < 1254489310 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am now editing C:\Code\Fitts\Fitts.c in the Wacom editor < 1254489727 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254489728 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254491666 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d906ea@gateway/web/freenode/x-jgjsicpdbezrsvlb JOIN :#esoteric < 1254494014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's your internet today, internet folk < 1254494035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yellow and tangy. < 1254494047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254494068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :green and limy < 1254494087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned i hate calculus < 1254494131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this time i hate it because integration is too hard, i suppose it's usually the other way around < 1254494208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integration is one of those things that's impossible in general < 1254494210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like comparing functions < 1254494239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know; that's sort of the kind of stuff i know. < 1254494305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The other way around", i.e. integration is too hard because you hate calculus? < 1254494326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's an iterated integral, integrating by either variable using the wolfram thingie gives an incomprehensible megaexpression < 1254494359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: almost; usually because it's too easy < 1254494390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "for the opposite reason" or something to that bend might've been more diple. < 1254494395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can well imagine oklopol's hatred of something making it more difficult < 1254494400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can't then ask oklopol for help < 1254494409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it seems that we have an esolang name language clash < 1254494418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Keymaker created an esolang also called Clue < 1254494426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1254494443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope i keep this speed up at uni so i don't have time for esolangs :P < 1254494461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either one of you could maybe add a diacritic somewhere. < 1254494487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cL < 1254494503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that' looks like a c implementation of lua < 1254494507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clue̫ < 1254494507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1254494513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue (`) < 1254494524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why we can't have two unrelated esolangs with exactly the same name < 1254494528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's an "e" with a combining inverted double arch below.) < 1254494531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can have Clue (disambiguation) < 1254494532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good point :D < 1254494550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang needs a dab page, it's feeling kind-of lonely without one < 1254494589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Having two languages with identical names will cause the Universe algorithm to become confusing, and it might accidentally merge the languages (and their authors) into a single entity. < 1254494604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/confusing/confused/; it is confusing already. < 1254494642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging oklopol and Keymaker together could have rather weird results < 1254494664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run, it's the oklomaker! < 1254494686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, a sort of oklo factory would be worrying < 1254494703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole world would be full of oklopols and oklofoks and oklojots and whatever < 1254494736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the average IQ would go massively over 100 and the contradiction would cause everything to become true < 1254494763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop calling me intelligent, it's confusing :D < 1254494810 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@82.66.176.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254494830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay only one month till universality proofs < 1254494837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and undecidability < 1254494837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason you can't be both intelligent /and/ confused < 1254494851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more undecidability than universality < 1254494953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like to think of computability theory as the art of ruining puzzles for mathematicians < 1254494982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, kar8nga < 1254494984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1254495009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should stick some sort of PCFG babble-generator into fungot; that would mean more well-structured output, and the generation part is still really very simple, although not quite so trivial as with the current n-gram model. < 1254495009 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i went through every book i could find < 1254495022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: And still you can't really speak. < 1254495022 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the helpful article might be a deliberate typo or someone has vandalized the text. perhaps the cards have jumpers to set the stack size < 1254495068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the helpful article might be a deliberate typo" < 1254495081 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has a point < 1254495082 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: thank you, that budapest national anthem!!! wrong channel :) < 1254495088 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1254495121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need either POS-tagged corpora or a well-working tagger to get training data for that, though. < 1254495173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can an article be a deliberate typo, i mean i suppose an article could be considered a typo if it was accidentally written, and a typo could be considered deliberate if it looked like it was an accident but wasn't < 1254495181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you merge those < 1254495188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see it < 1254495195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sorting cards is my new hobby < 1254495228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not speedsorting, trying out different algos (my record is 2:15 or something) < 1254495243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for speedsorting, in case someone happens to speedsort) < 1254495262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heapsort is kinda hard with a dog jumping on the cards < 1254495266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Since we don't tolerate helpfulness around these parts, the article had to look like it was trying to be unhelpful, and someone had just accidentally written it so that it ended up being helpful after all. But the "mistake" was in fact deliberate, and now we'll need to find the culprit before everything's helpful. < 1254495304 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must've been what fungot meant < 1254495305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: this one's better: it's a crime... and so on < 1254495330 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style < 1254495335 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: FireFly: this one's better: it's a crime... and so on < 1254499847 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: fnord sounds better that way. costs me next to nothing. < 1254499851 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that *is* a better idea < 1254499863 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: but is it ethical? i mean, doing all that just to make your fnords better? it costs PEOPLE'S LIVES, dude. < 1254499864 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: it's not a religious issue at all). note that lst may be a dotted list < 1254499871 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you can have ethics without being religious < 1254499872 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: what book and what is not < 1254499876 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what. < 1254499877 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: are the dots for? < 1254499882 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i don't know. what are the dots for? < 1254499993 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: hooray for irfanview, another quality program that runs on 95. < 1254500068 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(boo for opera, eater of my system resources) < 1254500088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: bump < 1254500089 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.ca/ fnord on line 91. obviously things have changed. < 1254500127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you linked to the home page by mistake, rather than to the actual paste... < 1254500128 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you put your data on the stack than i intended, but almost :) < 1254500506 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries opera 9; apparently it's less hogging < 1254500517 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then seamonkey... < 1254500580 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmm < 1254500588 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just deleted opera and now i have no browsers < 1254500589 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clever < 1254500689 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget something? < 1254500698 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows 95? < 1254500705 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254500708 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not, then < 1254500709 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1254500719 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use ftp, if DOS prompts didn't fuck up the system. < 1254500734 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, IE 3 is on the Windows disc. < 1254500797 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254502691 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254502716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1254502765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254502822 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254502872 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-095-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254502912 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what d you use to extract cabs and installers on windows? < 1254502916 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1254502924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally you just double-click them < 1254502936 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a .cab? no, that just gives the unknown file dialog < 1254502953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very common to have GUI decompression software installed, normally shareware, back then < 1254502999 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have WinZip 6 installed, but it doesn't do cabs. < 1254503017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1254503027 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ugh? < 1254503078 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could install 7-Zip or something < 1254503081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I found the official instructions from Microsoft about extracting .cabs < 1254503089 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1254503089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have internet access so you can see the stupidity for yourself? < 1254503094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or shall I say it over IRC? < 1254503105 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Opera, yes. < 1254503108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.microsoft.com/kb/129605 <--- so everyone can laugh at the windows 95 instructions < 1254503117 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera 9 with a Windows ME dll helping it along, right now. < 1254503134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests using Start | Find | Files or Folders to find extract.exe < 1254503138 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow adding this ME component actually *improves* its operation. < 1254503144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the installation disk < 1254503146 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would, at first site, seem to be an anti-tautology. < 1254503150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, copying it to the root directory of drive C < 1254503156 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1254503173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Microsoft's own advice, surely they'd know where it was? < 1254503225 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254503249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also love the way the instructions are different for Windows 95, 98, and ME) < 1254503252 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254503255 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I miss? < 1254503257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I also love the way the instructions are different for Windows 95, 98, and ME) < 1254503270 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing to see if extract.exe is already included in Windows 95. I gather it was, because I got a DOSboxcrash. < 1254503273 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it is < 1254503275 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not it was < 1254503290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in other words, the instructions are not only ridiculous, but also unnecessarily convoluted? < 1254503295 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so. < 1254503308 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess my first task is to fix DOS prompts. < 1254503438 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, i broke a key. < 1254503474 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uck this shit. < 1254503581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1254503583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how? < 1254503589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hardware or software? < 1254503715 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key < 1254503718 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in hardware < 1254503731 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by snapping one o the prongs that plugs into the key hole, thing < 1254503738 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you try Scitech Display Doctor as an alternative VGA Driver: You must try Version 7. Versions before this (5.x, 6.x) are known not to work." < 1254503740 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh < 1254503746 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes izzie < 1254503747 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1254503751 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am i meant to ping izzie :D < 1254503756 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :izzie: slave! appear! < 1254503907 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads sdd 7 beta < 1254503951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that the key in question is f < 1254503959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll ping fizzie for you if necessary < 1254504010 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's totally alse. What a raternical attitude, to associate like a ern the concept o the key when there is no ucking rational evidence to back up the claim. I have expelled latulence more logical and unny! < 1254504060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be so great if you were bluffing < 1254504079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you easily remap it to one of the other keys? < 1254504085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in the virtualiser? < 1254504094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all the F-keys, as well as f itself, for instance < 1254504157 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wll th ky dosn't it into that hol < 1254504187 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtttttttttttttttttr334445544444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444cttt < 1254504189 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tttttttttttttttttttttt < 1254504192 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tt < 1254504204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to change the physical layout... < 1254504207 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yhhhhhhhhhhhhhh5555555555555yhyu < 1254504243 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was yinh yo puy yhw "3" (back) kyy in sloy < 1254504259 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exdf < 1254504278 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, damaged key worksfff < 1254504281 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wels weird hough < 1254504299 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible success! Fucking yay! < 1254504300 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeo < 1254504301 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254504303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're typing reall badly < 1254504305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really badly < 1254504307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a typical ehird < 1254504314 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in this line: < 1254504316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this is due to the keyboard problems < 1254504322 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:05] i was yinh yo puy yhw "3" (back) kyy in sloy < 1254504328 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole block of keys around f was totally missing < 1254504332 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was meant to read: < 1254504344 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to put the "3" (back) (i.e. backwards i.e. e) key in slot (i.e. slot of f key) < 1254504360 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the f key's tactileness is subtly but annoyingly different now < 1254504373 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebooting for SciTech Displa Doctor 7 Beta! < 1254504375 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Display < 1254504381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your keyboard back in order? < 1254504382 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254504684 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254504690 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news: the driver seems to work < 1254504700 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad news: the configuration panel looks like XP and has animations. < 1254504703 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1254504707 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I can not run it all the time < 1254504717 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, of course, I will have to pirate it. < 1254504727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a shareware driver? < 1254504741 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; Scion Display Doctor aka UniVBE or whatever it's called. < 1254504745 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, SciTech. < 1254504793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shareware drivers are a horrible horrible thought < 1254504806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind is refusing to comprehend the possibility that they exist < 1254504814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you've said they do < 1254504827 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh < 1254504838 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they DID code support for thousands upon thousands of graphics cards -- literally < 1254504850 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's understandable, if misguided, that they'd demand money for it < 1254504860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but suppose the time runs out; you'll then be unable to see your screen < 1254504869 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it'll revert to the default VGA driver that can run anything. < 1254504881 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 95 does that automatically, unlike ancient technology such as, uh, Xorg. < 1254504901 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i doubt the actual driver checks the licenses < 1254504920 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it spawns something that does, but i highly doubt there's license-checking code inside the driverspace < 1254504942 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaand command prompts work < 1254504973 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope there's a serial for this somewhere. < 1254505004 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs powerstrip to see if he can get the resolution to be 16:10 < 1254505018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning on sticking with windows 95, btw? < 1254505024 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, define sticking < 1254505033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using it as a main OS for a while < 1254505040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, is that a legit copy?) < 1254505045 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's effectively what I'm doing, albeit in a VM. also, no. < 1254505055 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt this thing will actually become my main OS. < 1254505058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should port LGA to it < 1254505064 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *is* suprisingly capable, and I like the GUI. < 1254505065 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LGA? < 1254505078 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did you really have to ask whether it was legit, by the way? I mean, it's me!) < 1254505083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can become legit < 1254505086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably easier than porting WGA, because we don't have the source to that) < 1254505087 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha < 1254505110 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure microsoft would cooperate :) < 1254505165 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to give a name to small programs, generally run at startup, that apply globally to the OS and have no UI apart from configuration (if even that) < 1254505166 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fixups" < 1254505177 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Rain is a fixup that runs hlt on idle cycles < 1254505200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: sort-of like services on UNIX? < 1254505205 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only UI is a system tray icon that you can right click to turn it off/on (it hides/shows rain drops hitting a chip), and if you left-click it a little about dialog pops up (strangely without any attribution) < 1254505217 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'd prefer it had no system tray; you can just kill it if you want to disable it < 1254505219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that is strange < 1254505220 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system tray icon < 1254505226 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's strange? < 1254505235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an about box that doesn't say who made it < 1254505241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like, the purpose of about boxes < 1254505259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the Windows programs I made years ago had help|about menu items that put up a message box < 1254505266 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no; it tells you what processor it's optimised for < 1254505274 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an option when you install) < 1254505360 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I called them fixups for a reason; it's genreeally of the form "this should be like this in the OS, but it isn't" < 1254505363 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*generally < 1254505375 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, less mildly, "I prefer the OS to work this way, but it isn't an option; this works instead" < 1254505392 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fitts, for instance, will be a fixup of the first kind: the OS should obey Fitts' Law, and dammit I'm going to make it. < 1254505415 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'll be installed entirely into the StartUp menu, and have no UI; you can terminate it via Ctrl+Alt+Delete if you want.) < 1254505466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you going to magically make Windows 95 obey Fitts' Law? < 1254505482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will you make every program do so? or just the things that are part of the OS? or just the things that came with the OS? < 1254505485 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, only one instance actually annoys me that I've noticed: the task bar < 1254505497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the start button work in the bottom-left corner/ < 1254505506 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in 2000 onwards < 1254505509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254505510 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in 95 < 1254505514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about closeboxes? < 1254505515 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's REALLY ANNOYING < 1254505520 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, just fixing that isn't all < 1254505527 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't swipe to the bottom pixel to switch window < 1254505533 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i'm doing is, removing the border of the task bar < 1254505537 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine the start button and the window buttons < 1254505541 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just put them right next to each other < 1254505557 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then put that at the bottom of the screen, the regular gray blank taskbar area (but smaller, since it's without the padding) < 1254505567 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the system tray, with its indented border again being as high as the whole thing < 1254505570 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1254505575 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitt's law obeyed, graphical consistency obeyed < 1254505618 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be quite easy, too < 1254505634 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just basically moving the task bar slightly off screen, then painting over it a bit to make the graphics look good < 1254505644 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slightly off screen so that the buttons flush with the screen edges) < 1254505668 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and force-clipping its height so windows can go in the unused space where there would be padding < 1254505684 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just some extra hackery to move the button widgets next to each other < 1254505696 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 95 has basically no protections, so i should be able to do it without asking please. < 1254505722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254505901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not very pokeable, being shopping and eating and thing. < 1254505909 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht! < 1254506014 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to make a Windows monitor definition file? < 1254506105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did one once, but I certainly have forgotten the knowledge by now. < 1254506119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was for the 666x666 screen mode I used in Linux, I think. < 1254506129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not so useful. < 1254506218 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I can close that awful XP-like thing without breaking the drivers. < 1254506227 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My world is a house of joy. < 1254506246 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to install SeaMonkey 1.1.17, because you have to patch it to get .18 working. < 1254506274 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I don't suppose anyone knows of something like the task manager for Windows 9x? < 1254506279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html thing I might've used; it does monitor.inf format for timings, though not a complete file. < 1254506288 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, listing processes, their memory usage, their CPU usage, and letting you kill them. < 1254506301 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found one but it sucked so much as to be useless. < 1254506323 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Timings don't matter if the screen isn't real, do they? < 1254506357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not, no. You just needed the right resolution or something? < 1254506384 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah; I'm using VESA BIOS stuff and want mah 1680x1050. < 1254506408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not completely sure you'll get it with the VESA driver unless you can get VirtualBox's fakey VESA BIOS to advertise that mode, but who knows. < 1254506460 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I was thinking. < 1254506504 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, what's the DOS pager? < 1254506511 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For dir. < 1254506515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more < 1254506517 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254506526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as in UNIX, come to think of it < 1254506534 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking of that one, but that'll do < 1254506541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the built-in "dir/p". < 1254506562 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know the command-line switch to mozilla browsers to run in "safe mode" or whatever? < 1254506567 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you're not starting up. stop that. start up. mode < 1254506578 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's what I was thinking of < 1254506584 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254506595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, in the DOS 6 configuration I have (with cracked 4dos and all kinds of customizations) somehow more.com has gotten corrupted, and piping anything to more causes an instant reboot. < 1254506613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice trap. < 1254506634 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 4DOS any good, then? < 1254506701 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254506739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled to command.com, sure; the tab completion was nice, for example. < 1254506750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember what the must-have features were. < 1254506751 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled to what what what now? < 1254506776 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, no tab completion is annoying me. < 1254506813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a pretty colorful variant of 'dir', with a lot more flags. < 1254506820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls? < 1254506845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use a ported ls. < 1254506883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done, on DOS < 1254506895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 4dos "dir" isn't too shabby though. < 1254506906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had just that with the right flags aliased. < 1254506933 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if WebKit compiles on 9x, and if not, how much effort it'd be to port it. < 1254506938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and you get a bit more conventional memory free with 4dos than command.com, but that's probably not an issue if you're mostly win95'ing. < 1254506970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4DOS and the "Features" list is probably pretty comprehensive. The better batch files I've used, though it's obviously only for personal things, since otherwise non-4dos people couldn't use them. < 1254507079 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If webkit uses cairo on windows, that could be a problem. (That's primarily why firefox 3 dropped support for 98, I think) < 1254507135 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To hell with 98, I'm talkin' 'bout 95. < 1254507147 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know if it does. < 1254507260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a lot of Webkit ports, so either it's not horribly difficult to port, or alternatively people have just been suitably inspired. < 1254507296 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's an Official(TM) build. I'd worry that it'd use Apple's font rendering and widgets like in Safari, but the code for those will be Top Secret, s. < 1254507297 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so < 1254507319 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the source is available, obviously, so. < 1254507335 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads it to see if it balks < 1254507438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254507450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl what is the B:: "namespace" of modules < 1254507462 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl compiler internals. < 1254507465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254507465 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really internals. < 1254507470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains stuff somewhat < 1254507472 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an exposure of the Perl compiler stuff so you can be Xzibit. < 1254507497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "Xzibit"? < 1254507509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird spelling of "exhibit"? < 1254507513 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254507518 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We go through this every three months, AnMaster. < 1254507538 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear to God we do. Every goddamn time you've completely forgotten every memory of it entirely. < 1254507557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, was it something related to CS? < 1254507565 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Yes, AnMaster. < 1254507575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what then < 1254507581 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, I don't know. < 1254507584 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something or other. < 1254507588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google just gives imdb hits < 1254507594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll be on Wikipedia, if you've forgotten < 1254507596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly < 1254507602 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article isn't very helpful, I imagine. < 1254507605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some actor or such using that stage name < 1254507616 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg meme, AnMaster. < 1254507644 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Originating from Pimp My Ride, vis-a-vis Xzibit putting objects of desire of person P inside P's car, vis-a-vis vapid, vis-a-vis meme potential. < 1254507648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I forgot what that meme was about < 1254507668 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIS-A-VIS yo dawg I heard you like verb(X)ing I put an X in your Y so you can verb(X) while you verb(Y) < 1254507687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often also X=Y. < 1254507690 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIS-A-FUCKIN'-VIS morphing into X=Y. < 1254507691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254507691 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1254507692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1254507692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/verb(X)ing/participle(X)/ < 1254507699 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, being Xzibit ~= doing meta-things. < 1254507710 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: touche < 1254507734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the status indicator in the service company's tracking page for the broken monitor has changed from red ("in queue") to yellow ("being worked on"). < 1254507839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing else useful on the tracking page, but at least I can neurotically look at the indicator and wait until it turns green ("ready"). < 1254507869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I... uh, I guess I just wait for them to contact me. What is this tracking thing good for, actually? < 1254507882 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neurotically checking. < 1254507942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the nethack devteam with their buglist < 1254507954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives the impression of progress without actually benefitting anyone < 1254508099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a subpage with an "event log"; the event log currently has (for today) three copies of the message "received at the service point" and one empty message. < 1254508190 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Modern Webkit browser on Windows 98 < 1254508190 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to cfchris6 who compiled a binary of Arora that runs on Windows98" < 1254508197 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely must run on 95 then! < 1254508214 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arora kinda... sucks, though. < 1254508381 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-215.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254508613 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254508694 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@83.194.187.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254509669 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254509669 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1254511048 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254512372 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1254512379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird95 < 1254512400 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254514711 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514711 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514711 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514712 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514712 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514714 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254514740 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-095-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514740 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254514757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :splat < 1254514948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this freenode getting rid of their memory leaks? < 1254515156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1254515184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be, since netsplits have never happened before < 1254515191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1254515880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1254515947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1254515972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't here hours ago < 1254515983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so long he has to recheck, actually) < 1254516044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, there was an error with the nvg server so i didn't get onto irc < 1254516107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not that I was here hours ago either. Was listening to someone talking about discrete mathematics at university. < 1254516278 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254516291 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeaMonkey sucks, there is nothing better < 1254516295 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it sucks less than Opera < 1254516325 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"discuss" < 1254516357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blabber blabber" < 1254516382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what about firefox? < 1254516391 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Windows 9x support. < 1254516395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1254516399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, this is in vm no? < 1254516404 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254516448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, do main browsing outside vm and just the stuff you actually need the vm for inside the vm? < 1254516457 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need this VM for anything. < 1254516483 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to try Windows 95, and as an extended experiment/what-if I'm, well, using it. < 1254516506 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the whole finding applications thing, the programs that come with 95 are nicer than XP's or 7's... < 1254516523 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they could do with supporting Unicode. < 1254516557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apart from the whole finding applications thing, the programs that come with 95 are nicer than XP's or 7's... <-- hm.. < 1254516558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1254516566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples please < 1254516566 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They're wonderfully simple. < 1254516578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err how is that inherently good? < 1254516586 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, Explorer is pleasant to use and has a real design. < 1254516598 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And isn't over-cluttered with 400 million options. < 1254516606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, explorer in xp is quite reasonable to use. Windows 7... not so < 1254516616 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I could never use XP's explorer after using 95's. < 1254516618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: explorer before 98 was really nice < 1254516626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 brought in some weird HTML folder description thing, though < 1254516635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could translate your folders to HTML and have persistent something-or-others < 1254516636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, explorer in 98 was hell yes < 1254516636 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, 98 came and fucked it up with its wonderful IE-OS-component bullshit < 1254516642 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have a mental defect < 1254516647 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you have never used anything before 98 < 1254516653 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have severely lowered standards < 1254516660 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98's explorer is unbearable... < 1254516666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: that's what AnMaster said! < 1254516672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, I used 95 a bit. Not much. And note " ais523, explorer in 98 was hell yes" < 1254516686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up using Explorer in 98 quite a bit < 1254516690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't unusable, just awful < 1254516700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may actually have an 98 OEM CD somewhere < 1254516709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1254516726 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you use 95's explorer for any length of time to do actual stuff, then 98's for a time, and come out of it saying 98's explorer is hell yes... I'm thinking this might be a case of there being an actual objective right/wrong opinion on things. :P < 1254516742 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Wow IrfanView can do a lt. < 1254516742 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lot < 1254516768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the weird manual with 98 (OEM at least) had some sort of "rub this area of the outside of the manual that looks like something found on money and it should change colour. If it doesn't this copy is fake" < 1254516784 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, hologram piracy protection! < 1254516785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was heat based iirc < 1254516820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, well not exactly. I don't think "warm it up and check if it changes colour" counts as a "hologram" < 1254516833 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really Obvious Giving Away Of Non-Nativeness In SeaMonkey, #742: My OS draws outlines for windows when resizing. SeaMonkey redraws the window constantly. < 1254516847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254516855 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less noticably, it uses its own icon for the resize-diagonal cursor, an I have no clue why. < 1254516959 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Watcom IDE is so, so stereotypically Win3.1. < 1254517093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh not again.... google holiday logo on results page but not on main page < 1254517128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/logos/gandhi09res.gif < 1254517131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise < 1254517301 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has the crushing realisation that he doesn't even know what the prototype for WinMain is, and yet wants to mess with the task bar < 1254517392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, mess with it how? < 1254517404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean adding something to the area near the clock? < 1254517412 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; that's trivial compared to what I'm doing. < 1254517418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what are you doing < 1254517419 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practical terms, my code will: < 1254517435 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- move the task bar down and left so that they end off the edge of the display < 1254517451 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- forcefully clip the height of the task bar from the top to a certain height < 1254517462 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- change spacing between widgets in the task bar < 1254517468 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly a little bit more. < 1254517476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have gandhi on the main page *BWAHAHAHA* < 1254517486 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, while not restricted in any way - 95 has no protection, after all - is going to be non-trivial. < 1254517500 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so that it ends off the edge < 1254517504 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird pluralisation typo there. < 1254517536 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of wp's sort pages have switched to static sorting visualization < 1254517538 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better alternative to the first one would be moving the widgets in the task bar, which I can probably do. < 1254517577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot see oklofog clearly < 1254517581 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The user-interface effect of this code is that the task bar will obey Fitts' Law: you can hit the bottom-left pixel in the screen to open the start menu, you can select a window even if you hit the very bottom pixel, etc. < 1254517608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this law? < 1254517613 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is a Very Good Thing, because the current taskbar is mildly but significantly annoying (I'm unintentionally training myself to be slower aiming for it, which reduces annoyance almost entirely but makes me slower). < 1254517623 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a law about the easiest places to access with the mouse. < 1254517631 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything on the screen edge has infinite width/height. < 1254517637 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can move your mouse up and up and it'll stay there. < 1254517644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1254517656 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And things with infinite height are the easiest to hit; the easiest places on the screen to hit are the exact position your cursor is in, and the four corners. < 1254517672 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more subtle results than that, but that's the only part my application uses. < 1254517685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what are the more subtle results? < 1254517699 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the easiest places to reach in-between those two extremes. < 1254517716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, also it isn't true always. Hitting left side of my desktop is currently rather hard due to synergy. < 1254517732 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Windows 2000 onwards or somesuch already lets you open the start menu with a bottom-leftmost click, but it doesn't redraw the widgets so that the start menu actually ends at the screen edge, which looks weird, and it doesn't let you hit the bottom pixel of the screen to switch windows. < 1254517748 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It works perfectly fine there, it just considers both computers as one desktoop. < 1254517753 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, as far as the mouse is concerned, they are. < 1254517773 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, since nothing on the other computer is useful to software on the other, it basically limits the choices of the application. < 1254517792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, yes, you just have to be aware of that the mouse does not stop at the bottom left corner when going to the K menu < 1254517818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often end up clicking the right end of the panel on my laptop instead < 1254517829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, the alternative is worse < 1254517846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I have to sit at an awkward angle for one of the computers < 1254517855 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just set up a delay, dude. < 1254517861 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 100ms before it switches. < 1254517862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, I have done so < 1254517865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 ms < 1254517873 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it shouldn't really be an issue so much. < 1254517889 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could add an exception for that corner pixel. < 1254517898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, well the delay helps a lot. But still I have issues with that yeah < 1254517899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you want to switch computers through it so very often. < 1254517914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I say I did? < 1254517932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well not a lot unless I'm copying stuff between them < 1254518020 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So add an exception for that corner pixel. < 1254518031 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, Fitts' Law is saved for the most useful cases (the corners). < 1254518042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, just have to find out how < 1254518048 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, that would be the hard part. :P < 1254518067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I should probably add a bit more than that single pixel. since I seem to often hit like 4-5 pixels up the side < 1254518082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however when I actually *want* to switch it is often somewhere in the upper 2/3rd < 1254518095 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's alright, ehird95. We'll work out Win32. Together. < 1254518105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254518112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is yourself yeah :P < 1254518112 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to be scared on the WinMain() and the HWND and the LPTREXISTENTIALHORROR. < 1254518134 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on ehird95. Let's just open the browser and go to Google. CALM DOWN. It will not destroy your soul. Uh, much. < 1254518136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPTREXISTENTIALHORROR <--- LPT REXTISTENTAL HORROR? < 1254518141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something printer related? < 1254518143 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long pointer to existential horror. < 1254518147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254518182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, are you sure it is actually possible to do this without basically patching system files? < 1254518188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh an idea < 1254518189 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT. Do not think about the fact that they use stdcall. They are not on crack! Okay, fine, they are on crack. But that doesn't mean you'll be on crack too! When using it? I think? < 1254518195 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows 95 has no protection. < 1254518197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it as a windows 95 plus theme thingy < 1254518198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254518202 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any process can do what the fuck it wants. < 1254518212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how loadlin works; it's just an ordinary process that goes "byebye, Windows". < 1254518224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what about stdcall? < 1254518233 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaky! < 1254518240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, I forgot how it differed < 1254518251 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall either, I just recall it's freaky. < 1254518251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return value in register or something? < 1254518274 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, second project queued up: Windows 9x WebKit browser that doesn't suck. < 1254518278 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had it with these browsers! < 1254518290 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can barely... bare... them. < 1254518291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The stdcall[1] calling convention is a variation on the pascal calling convention in which parameters are passed on the stack, pushed right-to-left. Registers EAX, ECX, and EDX are designated for use within the function. Return values are stored in the EAX register. The callee is responsible for cleanup of the stack." < 1254518298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia < 1254518308 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but AnMaster, they do varargs stdcall. < 1254518311 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not joking. < 1254518314 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Win32API actually has that. < 1254518318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err how? < 1254518321 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1254518326 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some crazy horrifying trick. < 1254518333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right to left. No it shouldn't be an issue < 1254518337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cleanup however would be < 1254518340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite an issue < 1254518345 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the first argument, though? < 1254518353 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask ais523; he's more acquainted with the unmentionable horror. < 1254518379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details of Windows calling conventions < 1254518389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that they make your programs nonportable by forcing you to specify them all the time < 1254518395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with keywords non-Windows compilers don't accept < 1254518453 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure if you're using the Windows API you're non-portable anyway. < 1254518454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't the headers specify them already? and for exported API just do: #define PLATFORM_EXPORT_FUNC to the __dllspec(whatever) stuff and so on < 1254518461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, well yes < 1254518470 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, time to dive in to the WinMain(). < 1254518481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, RIP ehird95 < 1254518485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: things like callbacks you have to define yourself < 1254518487 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fitts, version 1: a graphical Win32 program that exits immediately after it starts. Go. < 1254518494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with particular keyboard conventions < 1254518504 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite. < 1254518537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw cfunge doesn't use standard calling convention on x86 either. After profiling I found that using the gcc __attribute__ to use register passing saved *quite* a bit on 32-bit x86 < 1254518552 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a Windows 9x-native WebKit browser might be quite... interesting; seeing as I'm pretty sure on Windows your toolkit options are GTK and Qt. < 1254518554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only applies to internal functions of course < 1254518570 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chrome uses their own port of WebKit to Windows, but Chrome is XP/Vista/7 only, so.) < 1254518577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cfunge isn't meant to be portable C when the extreme-x86 options are turned on < 1254518584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm glad you're doing it as a portable/nonportable polyglot < 1254518608 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm pretty sure I'd have to rewrite every single widget call in WebKit to use Win32. < 1254518612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually not an option. It is always used if 1) GCC is detected 2) 32-bit x86 is < 1254518632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, GTK for windows? Or is that not 9x either? < 1254518652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but never otherwise. < 1254518653 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, there's Qt for Windows too, but they're both Not Actually Native(TM). < 1254518664 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both use the actual widgets, iirc, but the total construction is off. < 1254518664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, QT on windows looks good though < 1254518671 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, looks, at a glance. < 1254518683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "for extended usage" I mean < 1254518687 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guarantee you there are many subtle warts vs the platform, just like in OS X. < 1254518718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, nothing I noticed. But I'm quite happy with gimp on OS X apart from the whole "X11 starting" bit < 1254518729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm fine with mixed KDE and GTK too < 1254518755 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise there's a Quartz port of GTK and one that uses Cocoa widgets too? < 1254518758 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still looks fugly though. < 1254518759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see my desktop.... KDE3... GTK apps not set to KDE like theme but just old style very rectangular theme < 1254518778 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, if you think GIMP fits in quite well with OS X, I'm very justified in ignoring ever opinion on desktop environment integration from you... < 1254518784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You realise there's a Quartz port of GTK and one that uses Cocoa widgets too? <-- yes, but not when I last used OS X < 1254518788 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it simply doesn't integrate one bit; it's the polar opposite < 1254518796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But seriously, if you think GIMP fits in quite well with OS X, I'm very justified in ignoring ever opinion on desktop environment integration from you... <-- no I didn't say it fits well < 1254518800 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1254518833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said: I have no problems with it not fitting well < 1254518833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite different < 1254518833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can *see* it doesn't fit < 1254518833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just doesn't bother me much < 1254518840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than gimp does *anywhere* I mean < 1254518842 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, LPSTR lpCmdLine, int nCmdShow) < 1254518848 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus lord mother of fucking goddamn shitting christ. < 1254518858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, where is the pointer to the struct < 1254518861 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy cow, that's some function prototype for a goddamn main function. < 1254518861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the instance stuff < 1254518872 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instance is the application instance; i.e. your process, sorta. < 1254518877 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hPrevInstance is NULL. < 1254518886 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lpCmdLine is your command line arguments, except they all come as one string. < 1254518890 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nCmdShow is I have no fucking idea. < 1254518895 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINAPI expands to stdcall. < 1254518900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, int main(void), int main(argc, argv), int main(argc, argv, envp) are the ones I know of on POSIX < 1254518908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hPrevInstance is NULL. <-- wait what? < 1254518915 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Backwards compatibility. < 1254518920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1254518928 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why back compat evil. :) < 1254518931 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compat is evil < 1254518941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, how comes POSIX doesn't have so many visible backward compat warts < 1254518949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of only a few < 1254518951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few < 1254518967 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because POSIX is a million times less popular. < 1254518987 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And basically no consumers use it, thus all the apps are mainly business, backend stuff, etc. < 1254518991 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which tends to be less shit. < 1254518997 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only slightly. < 1254519025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254519102 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds a search box to SeaMonkey with MonkeyMenu. Yaaaay. < 1254519104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less people do really truly awful things to POSIX. And people are much less bitchy when stuff breaks on POSIX systems. < 1254519120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... About it. < 1254519156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia on AMD64 calling convention: "The calling convention of the AMD64 application binary interface is followed on Linux and other non-Microsoft operating systems. The registers RDI, RSI, RDX, RCX, R8 and R9 are used for integer and pointer arguments while XMM0, XMM1, XMM2, XMM3, XMM4, XMM5, XMM6 and XMM7 are used for floating point arguments. As in the Microsoft x64 calling convention, additiona < 1254519156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l arguments are pushed onto the stack and the return value is stored in RAX." < 1254519158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1254519167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would help if it was actually accurate < 1254519167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it isn't < 1254519198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically. Small structs are also passed in registers < 1254519402 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_style worst wp article ever < 1254519459 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone got into the edit page and thought "I'm going to explain EVERY NUANCE to everyone who reads this article! They'll be so pleased that I've accurately documented the facts and subtleties of every single facet of programming style. Hey, what does it matter if half of them only apply to curly brace languages? What does it matter if I should be describing the basic elements because it's an encyclopedia? Whoopdihey!" < 1254519481 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254519759 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wacom IDE would suck less if it didn't have multiple windows inside windows all over the place. < 1254519762 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Watcom < 1254519771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of the term "an eightbyte"? < 1254519787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote AMD64 ABI: < 1254519789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Within this specification, the term byte refers to a 8-bit object, the term twobyte < 1254519789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refers to a 16-bit object, the term fourbyte refers to a 32-bit object, the term < 1254519789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eightbyte refers to a 64-bit object, and the term sixteenbyte refers to a 128-bit < 1254519789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object.1 < 1254519795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite unusual < 1254519816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the 1 there is a footnote btw) < 1254519820 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1254519826 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my first Win32 program just executed. < 1254519830 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel my soul dripping away. < 1254519834 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, second. < 1254519839 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I executed a nop a few times before that. < 1254519847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1254519847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int WINAPI WinMain( < 1254519847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HINSTANCE hInstance, < 1254519847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, < 1254519847 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LPSTR lpCmdLine, < 1254519848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at http://www.html-protector.com/encrypt/sample.html < 1254519848 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int nCmdShow) < 1254519850 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1254519852 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MessageBox(NULL, "Hello, world!", "Hello", MB_OK); < 1254519854 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1254519856 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1254519858 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The boilerplate stings. < 1254519867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much worse if you want to actually open a window < 1254519878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just sit in the background without an associated window < 1254519880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Wacom IDE would suck less if it didn't have multiple windows inside windows all over the place. <-- why are you using that one? < 1254519880 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, let the tutorial break the horror into me. < 1254519883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how does it look? < 1254519922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "To display this page you need a browser with JavaScript support."? < 1254519923 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because I'm using Open Watcom, and it looks like it was designed for Windows 3.1. Subwindows up the wazoo, button-style toolbar icons, small (like in Mosaic), the editor/debugger/etc are all different programs, so you have to switch to another big-window-with-subwindows to do things like make and run. < 1254519930 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, all the icons are 16x16, 16-color affairs. < 1254519939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at the source < 1254519951 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the editor's status line actually uses black Win 3.1-font (dunno what it's called) upon dark teal. < 1254519955 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is rather unreadable. < 1254519970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, they have a bunch of JS on the page that they claim will make it impossible to open the page without a password, or in a "less-restricted" browser like Mozilla < 1254519979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even people who can open the page can't see its HTML, or even retrieve it from cache < 1254519980 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's convenient; it autoindents, syntax highlights and it also handles writing a build script for me. < 1254519987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like one of those right-click-block scripts on steroids < 1254519991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems like a trivial to break encryption? < 1254519994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1254520000 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is good, because these are the commands it executes: < 1254520001 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sec) < 1254520004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so incredibly trivial that I thought people here would be amused by it < 1254520017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's just url encoding right? < 1254520022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most part < 1254520026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254520028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it is < 1254520029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where the hp_d00 is < 1254520039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(unescape('%68%70%5F%6F%6B%3D%74%72%75%65%3B%66%75%6E%63%74%69%6F%6E%20%68%70%5F%64%30%30%28%73%29%7B%69%66%28%21%68%70%5F%6F%6B%29%72%65%74%75%72%6E%3B%64%6F%63%75%6D%65%6E%74%2E%77%72%69%74%65%28%73%29%7D')) < 1254520039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254520040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that bit < 1254520055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it defines the hp_d00 function < 1254520056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(unescape('hp_ok=true;function hp_d00(s){if(!hp_ok)return;document.write(s)}')) < 1254520063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254520064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran the source of the page through LeetKey < 1254520065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hp_ok? < 1254520066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254520069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254520069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an underestimated Firefox plugin < 1254520079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does leetkey do? < 1254520089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally designed to parse 1337-speak into something more readable < 1254520095 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The reason I'm using the Open Watcom IDE is because it writes the Makefile (or equivalent) to run these commands without me getting near anything nearly as horrifying: < 1254520096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd C:\Code\Fitts < 1254520096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wmake -f C:\Code\Fitts\Fitts.mk -h -e C:\Code\Fitts\Fitts.exe < 1254520096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wcc386 Fitts.c -i="C:\WATCOM/h;C:\WATCOM/h/nt" -w4 -e25 -zq -od -d2 -6r -bt=nt -fo=.obj -mf < 1254520096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlink name Fitts d all SYS nt_win op m op maxe=25 op q op symf @Fitts.lk1 < 1254520100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot more filters got added to it over time < 1254520113 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's to compile one trivial C file into a Win32 graphical executable with Open Wacom. < 1254520116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does things like ROT13ing and URLencode/decoding etc < 1254520120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, why not use MSVC or something? < 1254520131 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1. Windows 95 2. $$$ < 1254520135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "source code thiefs"? < 1254520148 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it means people who INFRINGE THE COPYRIGHT of your code! < 1254520150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, MSDNAA doesn't seem to have such old MSVC < 1254520150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, that should be "thieves", for two, I doubt they really exist in large numbers < 1254520165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, oh I think I may have an old old copy of MSVC++ 6.0 or something < 1254520169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep mentally muddling MSDNAA with MPAA and RIAA < 1254520171 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of "thieves", their site pops up a fake dialog using OS X Tiger's window widgets < 1254520172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably pro < 1254520173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they shouldn't have picked a similar naming scheme < 1254520174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1254520178 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that, you know, just as illegal? < 1254520185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: who knows < 1254520205 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: was that an offer? I'm not exactly sure MSVC++ will be less horrific than this, but... < 1254520208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Retrieve this page from your cache... It %65xpires IMMEDIATELY!" < 1254520219 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1254520223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why the URLdecode failed there? maybe it was double-encoded in the original... < 1254520233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, it is an entire cd. if I can find it. Slow uplink. So probably not an offer as such < 1254520248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm surprised that they thought of disabling cache (which means your own server gets hammered), but not of people just using view source and URL-decoding it < 1254520250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it would be... you know. ileegal? < 1254520251 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, the commands for MSVC++ are probably as horrific. < 1254520253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illegal* < 1254520254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1254520265 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piracy? illegal? < 1254520265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, first time I've seen a page deliberately coded to /not/ work in Firefox < 1254520266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks at standard compliance < 1254520267 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you. don't. say < 1254520276 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually downloading copyrighted material is legal in sweden iirc < 1254520278 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about uploading < 1254520284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, yeah, it is bleeding edge research I know < 1254520284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254520296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, um uploading is, But not downloading < 1254520296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1254520303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which forbids bittorrent < 1254520307 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's bizarrely backwards < 1254520308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you upload too there < 1254520314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, oh and I think using it is < 1254520320 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is providing copyrighted material legal, but downloading it isn't? < 1254520337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, yep. It's like "selling sex isn't forbidden, buying sex is" < 1254520355 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyrighted content: substitute for sex! < 1254520361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1254520427 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://weichhold.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/vc6_0.png ;; MSVC++ 6 seems to be a little prettier and less cluttered and has the advantage of being in one window < 1254520436 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, I don't need any of that file browser stuff since this thing is one file < 1254520444 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pirating it would probably take decades < 1254520445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how on earth would that site prevent cache and such even on MSIE? < 1254520451 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, eh, why not support FOSS :P < 1254520461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's anti-cache stuff in the headers < 1254520461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, is that open watcom FOSS? < 1254520461 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: set it to be outdated immediately < 1254520474 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the open-sourced continuation of the famous Watcom compiler < 1254520483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, ah < 1254520485 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 2003 < 1254520499 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom, Descent, Magic Carpet, System Shock, Fast Attack, Atomic Bomberman, and Duke Nukem 3D are among well known games that were compiled with Watcom C.[1] < 1254520502 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be too bad, eh < 1254520507 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt they used the ide though :) < 1254520565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, screenshot of IDE? < 1254520575 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1254520661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the text-based Watcom IDE too; that's the only one I've used. < 1254520715 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot'd; uploading < 1254520733 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really feel the 3.1ness without using it, oh well < 1254520748 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the window decorations and task bar should make you feel the windows 95ness :) < 1254520767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, I only used windows 3.1 once. For a few minutes. < 1254520775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I couldn't ever feel windows3.1-ness < 1254520789 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/v729P.png (the commands at the end of the source file are just me typing out the build log) < 1254520820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, the background picture doesn't look windows-95-ish < 1254520823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1254520833 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's because i set it myself < 1254520843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too large res for it < 1254520844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many colours < 1254520857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, doesn't fit with the environment at ALL < 1254520872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, also it feels 3.1ish. The icons do that is < 1254520877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the three view < 1254520879 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window decorations are pretty much invisible to me after using them for a while, so everything else is fitting in with the background. < 1254520892 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green is underrepresented in 95, anyway. < 1254520904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, why do you need green at all? :/ < 1254520938 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice colour. < 1254520967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, /me gets nostalgia for 16-bit programs on win95 < 1254520977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, win95 font rendering < 1254520983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly but very easy to make out the individual characters < 1254520989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although it was slow to read, it was pretty accurate < 1254521009 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, even XP ships with similar font rendering by default. < 1254521016 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At larger sizes it antialiases them, though. < 1254521017 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But otherwise it's identical. < 1254521057 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full background: http://imgur.com/vVBHr.png I scaled 'n cropped it from a 1680x1050 wallpaper. < 1254521070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: XP is more likely to use truetype fonts than raster ones, though < 1254521073 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it's a BMP on disk for Windows, but that'd just be too slow to upload and download. < 1254521084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ouch, I remember BMP < 1254521090 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with BMP. < 1254521095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-to-right, bottom-to-top, uncompressed, and with a weird header format < 1254521100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. :P < 1254521100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I need a Show Desktop. < 1254521108 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll code one and add it to the top of my start menu. < 1254521108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does start-D work? < 1254521118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if that worked as far back as win95 < 1254521128 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start, pause, d pops up the Documents menu. < 1254521135 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start+d does nothing. < 1254521136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, chording < 1254521141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1254521145 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start+R and Start, pause, R do the same thing, though. < 1254521147 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bring up Run.) < 1254521155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the top of the start menu is rather a bad place to Fitt at < 1254521159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Fitts at < 1254521168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can't remember if that worked as far back as win95 <-- the area where it an IE was in was added in 98 iirc < 1254521173 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the target is big vs the system tray or a Programs menu item < 1254521180 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't need to access it all that often < 1254521193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why can't you mix and match the best bits of different Windows versions? < 1254521201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still nostalgic for Program Manager < 1254521203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is "start"? < 1254521205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows key? < 1254521209 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254521210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254521212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Program Manager works on 95. < 1254521212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, super < 1254521213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254521216 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it earlier. < 1254521216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I know < 1254521228 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of weird, because right clicks and such do nothing. < 1254521231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't load on boot < 1254521238 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you so can mix and match the best bits of different Windows versions. < 1254521247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, did the right mouse button do anything in win3.1? < 1254521252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except during the mouse tutorial/ < 1254521256 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, NT 4.0 is a rock solid OS with 95's UI, except the UI is buggy. < 1254521267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's kind of weird, because right clicks and such do nothing. <-- huh?? < 1254521273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember it was win-M in 95. < 1254521276 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could replace a good chunk of the UI straight from 95, thus getting 95-minus-meddling-plus-stability-and-sanity. < 1254521277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "minimize all windows". < 1254521284 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works. < 1254521286 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 fizzie < 1254521287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : except during the mouse tutorial/ <-- what tutorial? < 1254521288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Program Manager doesn't react to right-clicks < 1254521296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows 3.1 had a mouse tutorial < 1254521299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1254521304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mice were new, and you didn't know how to use them < 1254521315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you were here when we linked to the youtube clip containing the mouse tutorial. < 1254521321 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, let's think... NT 4.0 + 95 replacement GUI parts... well, that should be able to run 2000/XP programs without too much hacking < 1254521322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was it like though? < 1254521324 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most 95 ones < 1254521330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe my client was < 1254521331 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No games, though; it has anemic DirectX support. < 1254521336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to grep logs on cs < 1254521336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to start with, you had to hover some polygons with numbers in < 1254521338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd* < 1254521338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then click < 1254521345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then double-click, and drag, etc < 1254521353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and near the end there was a dialog box with lots of useless controls < 1254521365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how were you supposed to open this tutorial to begin with? :D < 1254521377 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, a good subset of 95+2000 apps if you're willing to do hackery, a rock solid kernel, 95's UI (plus any additions you want as long as they play fine with NT)... < 1254521385 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like you can basically mix and match windows versions. < 1254521385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJhG-uds0-o has the win3.1 mouse tutorial; I remember that; it's the awesome, it's like this skill test "click here" "click there" "wow!" < 1254521395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, for all I know it was shown on first boot < 1254521402 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Get the latest Flash player. < 1254521403 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1254521410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can't remember a computer without a mouse < 1254521418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is due to growing up in a mac family < 1254521427 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with mice < 1254521428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that old apple classic had a mouse < 1254521434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first computer was a BBC Micro B, which didn't have a mouse < 1254521445 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if Flash 10 wants to install on Windows 95, attempt two??? < 1254521445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it had a floppy disk drive, rather than the more usual tape < 1254521447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but you are old ;P < 1254521453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that old < 1254521455 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically as old as the dinosaurs! < 1254521466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were old, it would have been punched cards or paper tape < 1254521468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wires < 1254521478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or paper wires, or punched wires. < 1254521483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that idioms exists in English < 1254521491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wet behind the ears" < 1254521497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for someone young and inexperienced < 1254521508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254521514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so not just a Swedish idiom then < 1254521533 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Flash 9 is the latest for 98/ME; let's hope it'll pretend I'm 95. < 1254521547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists also in Finnish, except it's just "märkäkorva", lit. translated as "wet-ear". < 1254521562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah but Finnish is strange :P < 1254521566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw we should ask oerjan < 1254521572 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsupported operating system nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1254521573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you remember punch cards? < 1254521574 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUu < 1254521577 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfjkgnklsgjljgjklsdf < 1254521578 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1254521581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, flash 7 or 8? < 1254521597 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash 9, which is one behind the latest version < 1254521601 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see if flash 9 does 95. < 1254521602 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254521605 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see if flash 8 does 95. < 1254521610 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think youtube uses flash 9 these days... < 1254521620 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOSE 98 USERS GET ALL THE CHICKS^WYOUTUBE < 1254521622 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and us 95ers < 1254521623 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all alone < 1254521625 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold < 1254521627 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weary < 1254521632 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without rick astley < 1254521643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: In a sensible operating system like DOS, you'd have the built-in "setver" command to change the version information reported to programs, and so would be able to fake it. < 1254521648 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sniff < 1254521669 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd bet about 30% on being able to use setver with Windows. < 1254521685 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, setver is for every executable < 1254521689 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... setvar win.exe? :D < 1254521709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll still only affect the MS-DOS version number, is my guess. < 1254521724 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aww. < 1254521742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a different numbering there, after all. < 1254521760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it was already at dos 7 in win95. < 1254521783 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs flashp8 < 1254521783 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flicker < 1254521784 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1254521789 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read something about seamonkey < 1254521794 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that dialog < 1254521796 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1254521801 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL < 1254521802 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to investigate < 1254521807 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows. cursor. tutorial CLICK < 1254521825 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Get the latest Flash player. < 1254521829 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE IF I'D RESTART IT. < 1254521864 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After installing the plugin, click here." Big box. < 1254521878 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opens the swf in a popup. < 1254521878 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1254521917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird95: In a sensible operating system like DOS, you'd have the built-in "setver" command to change the version information reported to programs, and so would be able to fake it. <-- sensible? < 1254521929 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1254521944 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254521951 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no flash player 8 uninstaller. < 1254521970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, oh? < 1254521978 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it wasn't wrapped ina proper installer < 1254521978 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO < 1254521982 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess oldversion are peddling in < 1254521982 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1254521985 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peddlable goods < 1254521990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254521993 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are not the full... bodied... legitimacy of a full installer. < 1254521995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles that < 1254521996 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracted, as it were. < 1254522006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions were found for peddlable. < 1254522010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254522022 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thusly, it may be so that lacking their surrounding installer framework, instead being a lowly detect-browser-and-copy < 1254522035 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they neglected to set up such uninstallable facilities, for my enjoyment, esquire, poppycock, cheesecake. < 1254522036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: define:peddleable No definitions were found for peddleable. < 1254522037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254522039 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1254522039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no help either < 1254522040 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUS < 1254522047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, so what did that word mean? < 1254522058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Able to be peddled, I would guess, even without an official definition. < 1254522068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is "peddled" then < 1254522069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254522082 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::iiam: < 1254522085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A peddler, in British English pedlar, also known as a canvasser, cheapjack, monger, or solicitor (with negative connotations since the 16th ..." < 1254522087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254522109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"solicitor"? some sort of lawyer? < 1254522111 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::iiaamif: < 1254522123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"S: (v) peddle, monger, huckster, hawk, vend, pitch (sell or offer for sale from place to place)" < 1254522126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wordnet) < 1254522130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1254522174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're not "selling" in a strictly literal sense, but anyway. < 1254522185 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var swfUrl = canPlayV9Swf() < 1254522187 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version nine only < 1254522196 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube on windows 95 = impossible < 1254522197 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAD :( < 1254522218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internets have some uses of "peddlable" in the "can be done with a pedal" sense too, but I doubt that's it. < 1254522265 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even flash 8 doesn't work on 95 < 1254522266 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woe < 1254522266 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1254522269 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :betide < 1254522270 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unto < 1254522270 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1254522274 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254522306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought: does Wine run on Windows 95? < 1254522311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did DS work? < 1254522314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it to run more recent Windows programs on older versions < 1254522359 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522359 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522359 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522360 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522360 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522361 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522362 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254522365 0 :mtve!n=nmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would WINE run on Windows? < 1254522378 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-095-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522378 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254522384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Wine run on Windows at all? < 1254522392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm < 1254522395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't make sense < 1254522400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is some bad lag < 1254522402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 seconds < 1254522407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well down to 0.3 now < 1254522407 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE runs on Cygwin. < 1254522414 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Cygwin 1.5 supports 95. < 1254522415 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really now. < 1254522420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Wine compiles under Cygwin but doesn't run there? < 1254522421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For the lulz, I guess. < 1254522424 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs there. < 1254522430 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wine and cygwin both run under each other < 1254522432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCLinuxOS looks very attractive < 1254522435 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pclinuxos is shit < 1254522436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we seem to be on the small side ofa netsplit < 1254522439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could use colinux first < 1254522439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wine < 1254522447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's just that Cygwin no longer runs on Windows 95. < 1254522447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not on windows 9x < 1254522451 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, it's based on mandriva, which is basically the archetypical bad linux distro < 1254522453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much only xp iirc < 1254522461 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, it's less popular than mandriva so doesn't even have the community < 1254522461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about newer windows versions < 1254522462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately: you could maybe just use the Wine DLLs on Win 95. < 1254522462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCLinuxOS : Linux :: Windows Vista : Windows ? < 1254522470 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third, it offers nothing even over mandriva < 1254522477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1254522478 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, it's the only possible way to make mandriva worse :P < 1254522494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programs run better under Wine then under native Windows < 1254522509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get PCLinuxOS styles for Ubuntu? < 1254522516 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they're just kde styles. < 1254522519 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no. < 1254522528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have KDE on this Ubuntu system < 1254522533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When KDE works well on Ubuntu, I'll try it < 1254522539 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have kubuntu, presumably, ais523 < 1254522542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I tried, things were crashtastic < 1254522543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254522543 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, kubuntu-dekstop < 1254522545 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*desktop < 1254522547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1254522556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have most of its dependencies, but not the package itself < 1254522558 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the packages come from kubuntu, anyway < 1254522570 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't think that system running that kde is really not-kubuntu < 1254522579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge_Unshackled is linked from Wikipedia < 1254522587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Mandriva ? < 1254522595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like your creation is getting attention < 1254522608 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: firstly, it's over-commercialised < 1254522611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, we seem to be on the small side ofa netsplit < 1254522612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254522612 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1254522614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are back < 1254522614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254522622 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus mostly based around their company and the branding mandriva < 1254522631 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seconldy < 1254522632 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*secondly < 1254522633 0 :Guest19311!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1254522634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1254522637 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody who knows linux uses mandriva < 1254522640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a bit it was just me and pikhq < 1254522642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But PCLinuxOS presumably doesn't inherit commercialization from Mandriva < 1254522642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "were" not "are" < 1254522646 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirdly, its desktop is basically juts kde 4 < 1254522648 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the damn point < 1254522651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when you said that you had been back for over a minute < 1254522652 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just yet another crappy distro < 1254522663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: coming back from the netsplit made me lag < 1254522667 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: considering pclinuxos = mandriva with a different logo, sure it does. < 1254522670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1254522673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because I was in #nethack at the time and there were hundreds of join messages to send < 1254522692 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question isn't what's wrong with mandriva although it can certainly be answered, the question is what on earth does it have over ubuntu? < 1254522694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the official Wiki, it doesn't work for many values of "work": http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows < 1254522696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I know how it is after a netsplit < 1254522706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, looking sexy out of the box? < 1254522706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you end up splitting due to full queues < 1254522710 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu has a huge, huge, HUGE community, is making advances in usability, ... < 1254522713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the *server send* side < 1254522720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very annoying < 1254522731 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I guess you just sit at your computer drooling all day instead of using it, but FWIW 9.10's default theme is appealing. < 1254522752 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Mandriva doesn't even use yum. < 1254522759 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gotta hurt. < 1254522772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what package manager? < 1254522776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw RPM, somehow? < 1254522786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, that made as much sense to me as "Debian doesn't even use rpm" < 1254522803 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: their very own wrapper over rpm < 1254522804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I guess yum is a thingy that works over rpm? That makes more sense < 1254522806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : According to the official Wiki, it doesn't work for many values of "work": http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows <-- why are some of the UI elements on there translated to Swedish for me??? < 1254522817 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: moinmoin does that. < 1254522830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that explains it < 1254522833 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(moinmoin, n. means "shitty wiki software" in hawaiian) < 1254522834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like two ones < 1254522848 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the word "moin", "shitty", and the word "moin", "wiki software". < 1254522859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sök" and "Innehåll" oh and a third one: "senast redigerad < 1254522860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254522862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1254522866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are: < 1254522882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search, TOC and "last edited" < 1254522951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, do you remember punch cards? <-- i vaguely recall there may have been some in the telecom building where my dad worked/works, back in the late 70s/early 80s. < 1254522962 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I would not call Clue (as well as Self BCT) a language, rather a machine with a complex behavior." --Oleg on a language just as valid as BCT < 1254522974 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg should really shut up when he doesn't know what he's talking about... < 1254523046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is this "oleg"? Sure I seen the name elsewhere < 1254523053 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that oleg. < 1254523056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some other idiot context < 1254523063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what "oleg"? < 1254523063 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg 1 is on the esolang wiki < 1254523074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg being an anagram for lego? < 1254523080 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg 2 is the uber-master-god of type systems, scheme, haskell and ocaml and he is smarter than you, full stop < 1254523092 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg 2 is of http://okmij.org/ftp/ < 1254523101 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is awesome. < 1254523109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, and which of these ie the oleg that should shut up? < 1254523112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oleg 1? < 1254523115 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1254523165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay < 1254523181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa this is some good music that was added to wesnoth since last I checked (about a month or two ago= < 1254523183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg 2's code makes my head hurt < 1254523184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/)/ < 1254523206 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg should change his name to that, Oleg 2 < 1254523212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cyberpunk. < 1254523218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gave me a command to download the Wesnoth music some time ago, but I forgot it :( < 1254523253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, svn co http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/music < 1254523264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1254523275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is listening to "northern_mountains.ogg" atm  < 1254523276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really great < 1254523292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ehird95 wouldn't like it < 1254523305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some Windows SVN thingy installed, so I'll just use that < 1254523355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it may take some time. the whole checkout dir is 245 MB. So half of that size need to be download (yeah svn doesn't even store the pristine copies compressed or anything...) < 1254523358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this thing telling me 0 Bytes/sec < 1254523377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go < 1254523399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do they add music? < 1254523406 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every second. < 1254523414 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does enigma work in 9x? < 1254523417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, varies. sometimes a few months, sometimes three in a single week < 1254523422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I don't know < 1254523445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"windows 95 and later", according to the website < 1254523449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, anyway, it grows overall slowly < 1254523460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try http://download.berlios.de/enigma-game/Enigma-1.01.exe < 1254523465 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The operating system I currently use on my primary computer is Windows 95 OSR2. Furthermore, not only do I use Windows 95 extensively, but I prefer it to Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP, and Vista." < 1254523471 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that makes 2 to 4 of them. < 1254523472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, berlios eww < 1254523488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "them"? < 1254523488 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy, these people. < 1254523490 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun, but crazy. < 1254523491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can Win98 be better than Win95? < 1254523496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's where it's hosted, do you want me to magic it somewhere else? < 1254523497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, other way < 1254523505 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The same way 98 can be better than ME. < 1254523506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can 95 be better than 98 in anyone's eyes? < 1254523511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no of course not < 1254523513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only good thing about Windows 98 compared to 95 is USB support < 1254523515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that is a big one < 1254523519 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 replaced the beautiful, usable 95 Explorer with 98's bloated shitfest IEcrap explorer < 1254523526 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added a bunch of unstable IE ""integration"" < 1254523530 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb support < 1254523530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did windows95 even support usb at all? < 1254523531 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else < 1254523535 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get usb support for win95 < 1254523536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1254523540 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a simple double-click away < 1254523543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: ah, I didn't know that < 1254523543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, external drivers? < 1254523547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly wasn't out-of-the-box < 1254523550 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tons of drivers, yeah < 1254523552 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple to install < 1254523562 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, AnMaster: them = people who use Windows 95 as a main OS and aren't hermits < 1254523565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, doubt it would be very well integrated? < 1254523567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in Win 95B. < 1254523573 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's integrated just fine < 1254523580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, able to handle all device classes and such < 1254523582 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 95B is with the stupid IE Explorer-replacement iirc < 1254523587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone still uses Win3.1 as a primary OS < 1254523588 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSR 2.5 did that < 1254523589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: Yes. < 1254523591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, replacement? < 1254523593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1254523595 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSR 2 is the last real 95 < 1254523597 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think 98's < 1254523600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254523600 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98's explorer = IE < 1254523604 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95's explorer = <3 < 1254523612 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSR 2.5 = IE explorer = not really 95 any more < 1254523617 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that berlios isn't loading < 1254523626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: ugh < 1254523638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: that berlios isn't loading <-- guess why I said "eww" about berlios? < 1254523640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try navigating from the directory? < 1254523643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supertux used to be hosted there < 1254523647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how horrible it is < 1254523654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of downtime too < 1254523659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how good is supertux? < 1254523670 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supertux is a fairly sundry mario clone < 1254523676 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice if you like mario clones. < 1254523681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? try it yourself. Not really working active on it any more < 1254523689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm sorry but the printf function doesn't except YouTube videos as input. < 1254523695 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1254523702 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about Windows 95 is that you can run it wonderfully without any IE at all < 1254523705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just picking a random comment out of context < 1254523716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't use .chms, sure, but how many are there in 95? Barely any. You can't use Outlook, thank god. < 1254523727 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everything else just works, including modern Word versions. < 1254523731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some custom very messy USB drivers in addition to the OSR 2 USB support. And I think that didn't include mass storage support by default, you had to use a third-party generic-enough driver for that. Could be wrong, though. < 1254523743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, what about DS? < 1254523767 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Docking station? It requires IE, I believe, although the DLLs I might still have from that stupid IE 4 installation I tried might still be there. < 1254523768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1254523769 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: despite sleeping in to 5:16. < 1254523769 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link me up, scotty. < 1254523789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, you need another link to DS? < 1254523792 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254523798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, berlios indeed seems to be down atm < 1254523808 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does work, then it's just a matter of putting the relevant IE 4 DLL next to DS (so you don't have IE 4 crap in your system). < 1254523815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me to slap everyone who works for Wikia < 1254523826 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1254523828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/ds/ds_more.php?id=552_0_16_0_C < 1254523830 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slap everyone who works for wikia < 1254523865 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seamonkey illegal operation shutdown awesome! < 1254523867 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a first. < 1254523889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's #esoteric's opinion on Wikia, by the way < 1254523894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to know whether to like it or hate it < 1254523897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm sorry but the printf function doesn't except YouTube videos as input. <-- context please < 1254523923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone making the hello world a link to a youtube video when publishing a hello world on a website < 1254523933 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wikia are, simply, evil < 1254523937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the Creatures wiki's opinion is hate it. They added junk to outgoing links, forcing most wikis to use a certain ad-filled theme < 1254523939 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254523940 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 < 1254523960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junk to outgoing links? < 1254523967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And took the creatureswiki.com domain name for themselves < 1254523974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ugh, berlios indeed seems to be down atm <-- as usual < 1254523981 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikia, for instance, fragment communities that want to split off because of their insistence on having about 5 ads per page (I'm not exaggerating) and forcing you to use the new, unusable Monaco theme. They say they want to split off, Wikia say: "You have fun. We won't have any links to you and we'll keep the wikia going." < 1254523993 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And, that whole thing with the snatching creatureswiki.com and holding it from them. < 1254523995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah http://monitor.berlios.de/berlios-status/ < 1254524000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know how some websites have a redirect thing? They do that, so they can display ads when someone goes to an outbound link < 1254524003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice status monitor < 1254524003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I know that Wikia is one of the few sites that I cannot cope with visiting with Epiphany < 1254524006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need AdBlock < 1254524006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish sf.net had it < 1254524017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bear to look at the thing < 1254524018 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia are one of the shittiest companies in existence; they have no empathy. < 1254524022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ads are really obnoxious < 1254524023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with berlios you can at least know that there are stuff that is brken < 1254524025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken* < 1254524030 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they could be opaque about their evil-for-profit like Microsot. < 1254524049 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com < 1254524054 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1254524062 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/sourceforge.net < 1254524064 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bookmark it :P < 1254524067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1254524086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, doesn't work. Maybe javascript? < 1254524091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ehird95 gave a very good explanation of what wikia's doing < 1254524100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The front page uses JS. < 1254524105 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inner pages don't. < 1254524107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254524109 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just append the domain to the URL. < 1254524140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, anyway doesn't help to answer "is svn on foo down"? or "is ssh down"? < 1254524144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: that is a good site, although with an annoyingly long domain name < 1254524151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried about:blank with it, though, and it got confused < 1254524163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it tried to URL-encode the colon < 1254524164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which for the only berlios site that is *NEVER* down, is rather nicely displayed on http://monitor.berlios.de/berlios-status/ < 1254524169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then said it didn't look like a website < 1254524195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, edge case... < 1254524204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not an important one at all < 1254524205 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, calling out ais523 for reporting on an edge case failure < 1254524209 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and calling it not important WHAT < 1254524212 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THIS UNIVERSE < 1254524215 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is scary and new to me < 1254524220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is rather out-of-character for AnMaster... < 1254524222 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL ANMASTER?! < 1254524226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, of course there are important edge cases too < 1254524233 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you an abducting alien or something?! < 1254524234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is just plain silly < 1254524237 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give him back! < 1254524240 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually, keep him. < 1254524243 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could get used to this. < 1254524244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it fits nicely with this channel kind of < 1254524265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop making my laugh so loud that I wake up people sleeping in the next room! < 1254524267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254524268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds a {{fact}} tag to wp's Malbolge article < 1254524280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why? < 1254524325 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: me making you laugh? < 1254524330 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you're *definitely* not AnMaster < 1254524337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, ais too < 1254524343 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but that's not odd < 1254524365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95 and yes, why did you turn funny suddenly < 1254524377 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254524383 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have we all been abducted < 1254524384 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, like < 1254524385 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're aliens < 1254524390 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we abducted people in here < 1254524394 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abducted ehird95, for instance < 1254524399 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we wiped our brains to make us think we're them < 1254524414 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of no other simpler explanation. Occam's razor, I win. < 1254524456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm acting in-character for me < 1254524464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may be wrong, of course < 1254524469 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we had to put in a joke for ourselves, naturally < 1254524480 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes perfect sense; what's the point of being just bewildered? < 1254524487 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we've never been amused before and this was the only way we had a chance. < 1254524525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, this is rather in-character of you now ehird95 < 1254524530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of ehird at least < 1254524535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the 95 bit < 1254524551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the occasional "weird OS" is normal for you < 1254524552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd ask if I'm acting in-character, but the question itself would be in-character < 1254524562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, :D < 1254524572 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :D < 1254524578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was actually rather funny < 1254524582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unusually so for you < 1254524598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unusually insightful < 1254524623 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he is usually pretty outsightful < 1254524638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would say: By not asking, and observing that, you are not atcing in-character < 1254524646 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain hurts. < 1254524648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i would very much like someone to provide a citation for it ;) < 1254524652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, why? < 1254524657 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS TOO CONFUSING :P < 1254524665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, citation for what? < 1254524672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1254524673 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254524674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far up there < 1254524676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254524697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, ok that is not normal behaviour for you when things are too confusing. < 1254524698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254524741 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254524766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sad thing is, I wasn't intending to be funny. I really was considering asking < 1254524800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there is no TCO label on my notebook. There is on my desktop monitor and some other stuff like my keyboard < 1254524824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading irc in spurts, so answers are a bit delayed < 1254524825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can think of when I see "TC0" is "THAC0" < 1254524832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total cost of ownership? < 1254524841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCO_Certification < 1254524847 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading irc without thinking, so answers are a bit incomprehensible < 1254524857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost *every* computer monitor have one of those stickers < 1254524857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, misreading O and 0 < 1254524860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: that's banana! < 1254524860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I have seen < 1254524861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sure, you can get a nice free keyboard from a shady open-source hardware dealer now. BUT AT WHAT COST?" < 1254524871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1254524876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FUD parody < 1254524881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1254524902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up on trying to explain < 1254524907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I actually understand what ais523 is saying < 1254524909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95 probably knows what I mean < 1254524911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm not me < 1254524915 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about nonmeasurable sets < 1254524918 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure AnMaster is the only person going eh right now < 1254524919 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254524928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "huh" < 1254524951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 gives up on trying to explain <-- stop being ehird < 1254524960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really really out of character for you < 1254524967 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254524969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: nonmeasurable sets are vitali important < 1254524971 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with all the characters < 1254524972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oklofog reads about nonmeasurable sets <-- ooh interesting < 1254524972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1254524981 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that a pun? < 1254524988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely reminds me of a seminar I had recently < 1254524996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what FUD was you parodying < 1254524997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone was talking about brute-forcing infinite problems in finite time < 1254525001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1254525014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, the theory is that if you install Linux now it'll cost you more later, in things like training costs < 1254525014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: you will have to read your homework to find out < 1254525015 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i need to find an example of two sets A<=R, B<=R s.t. m*(A \union B) < m*(A) + m*(B) < 1254525023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and come to more than the cost of Windows altogether < 1254525028 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reading is just so i can do that < 1254525029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah. What has it got to do with hardware? < 1254525049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway are you seriously suggesting you never heard about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCO_Certification? < 1254525056 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have read it well enough to'd remember if there were such a term :\ < 1254525061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't heard of it until now < 1254525062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it hasn't, that was the joke < 1254525065 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did you like my use of "would" < 1254525071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you missed the joke because you missed the thing it was referencing < 1254525079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh ok. don't see why the joke was funny < 1254525080 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you gave up < 1254525085 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if there was such a term, in the material < 1254525098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I ungave up after you encouraged me < 1254525106 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254525107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, a joke that depends on a reference you don't know will never be funny < 1254525107 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1254525110 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't encouraging you < 1254525112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the explanation would ruin it < 1254525118 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually it is mentioned < 1254525137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1254525147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because the explanation would ruin it <-- jokes explained explained < 1254525159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that goes far the other way < 1254525177 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a small note at the beginning of the theorem < 1254525253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/singles/jokes_explained_explained_explained_explained.php < 1254525268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same level as last I looked then < 1254525309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you read the mezzacotta blog, obviously... < 1254525311 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders... 2000 is nt just like nt 4, and nt 4 can run 95 stuff including a good portion of the explorer-type stuff < 1254525314 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1254525329 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have the software support of 2000 with the 95 gui, almost :D < 1254525335 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword almost... < 1254525350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well if you read the mezzacotta blog, obviously... <-- no I don't < 1254525386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the mezzacotta main page isn't very interesting most days < 1254525404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Dangerous Symphony" would be a good name for an SCP < 1254525408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, I remember when "software support of 2000" was sucky relative 9x < 1254525414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse nowdays < 1254525425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's the name of one of the Battle for Wesnoth background musics, IIRC < 1254525432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, scp? secure copy? < 1254525435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, it is < 1254525438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1254525443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com < 1254525443 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically R/Q < 1254525448 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have it < 1254525456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I can't decide whether Wikidot or Wikia is worse < 1254525458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R/Q + axiom of choice < 1254525467 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikidot just suck hard, they aren't actively evil < 1254525473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered about that "The Dangerous Symphony" < 1254525473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange name < 1254525477 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still, XP is where it's at for software support with an even vaguely NT 4-ish system; Chrome doesn't officially support 2000, for instance (though it works if you do an offline install). < 1254525483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: the fake-toolbar thing is pretty actively evil < 1254525486 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XP+95 shell sounds very unlikely to work properly. < 1254525489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the close box on it? < 1254525490 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's used implicitly here... < 1254525491 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's just incompetent < 1254525497 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1254525499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you want to restrict it to unit interval, so (R/Z)/(Q/Z) might be more accurate < 1254525506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: the terms of service ban using CSS or anything like that to remove it < 1254525509 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're not being manipulative sociopaths to lock people in, and forcing them to put 70 ads on one page, and locking them into one theme < 1254525511 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course AoC < 1254525518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there's a close box? < 1254525519 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're not trying to basically take people's wikis away from them < 1254525524 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just incompetent and bad at marketing < 1254525527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird95: the fake-toolbar thing is pretty actively evil <--- what one? < 1254525536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it doesn't work < 1254525538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, go to any wikidot wiki (like the scp-wiki) < 1254525555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, it's a link trying to get you to buy a paid account in order to hide the toolbar < 1254525555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't even SEE a close box < 1254525559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hm? < 1254525560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-right < 1254525564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on it < 1254525564 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or you could just use an intersection < 1254525571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see anything weird < 1254525576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from the whole scp wiki < 1254525579 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the axiom of choice thing < 1254525585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the individual pages in it (such as the history pages and what-links-heres) are unlikable < 1254525587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, the very top of the page. Scroll down a bit < 1254525588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unlinkable < 1254525588 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:59] can't see anything weird < 1254525588 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:00] well apart from the whole scp wiki < 1254525588 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254525599 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe, i'm not actually reading, too tired for that, more like tasting the proof < 1254525608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, yeah I remember seeing before. < 1254525620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, "unlikable" is also correct < 1254525620 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it once already, but usually takes a few reads for measure theory to sink in < 1254525620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, the very top of the page. Scroll down a bit <-- hm? nothing unusual? < 1254525628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I'm using links2 btw < 1254525630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for browser < 1254525637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..that might explain it < 1254525654 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did that intentionally. < 1254525661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I can try lynx or w3m too < 1254525665 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also i am closely following in your footsteps, was the only one to get homework problems 1 & 2 done1 < 1254525666 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1254525672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you want booooooring why not konqueror? < 1254525678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not about to start firefox < 1254525691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it would show in konqueror < 1254525695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches Microsoft's Get The Facts video thing < 1254525717 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose i might be following even closer if i was actually interested in the nondiscrete stuff < 1254525771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254525792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"append fail count to end of command line (/fail=%1%) < 1254525794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254525808 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254525810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow is that an inflexible API < 1254525813 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microscript? < 1254525824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some auto-run-program-on-service-error thing < 1254525831 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254525847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yeah it does < 1254525858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very off colour from the rest of the browser < 1254525860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to explain why IIS is more reliable than CentOS 5.0 < 1254525862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't really look irritating or such < 1254525876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means Apache, they said the OS rather than the app by mistake < 1254525878 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wikidot toolbar doesn't annoy me < 1254525880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I see the Close toolbar button now < 1254525893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no close button here < 1254525894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in knoq < 1254525897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konq* < 1254525898 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see it :D < 1254525902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, go to another page < 1254525906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: that's against the terms of service < 1254525913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1254525917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a ridiculous rule < 1254525919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, maybe you need to be logged in < 1254525919 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254525923 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is against the tos < 1254525923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes I'm on another one. Be aware of that javascript is turned off. < 1254525925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely < 1254525928 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any close button < 1254525930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in konq < 1254525941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: doing something to your browser to hide the toolabr < 1254525945 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't < 1254525945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, are you logged into Wikidot? < 1254525947 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254525954 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screeny? < 1254525956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, nor am I of course < 1254525973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have an account there < 1254525993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they're trying to administer CentOS through the GUI? < 1254526030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/2HLgi.png < 1254526058 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's obnoxious about it < 1254526058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's better < 1254526060 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get the big deal. < 1254526068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're showing a pretty clear config file < 1254526079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: breaks standard UI habit < 1254526083 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1254526085 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says who < 1254526086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that, I normally aim for the bottom toolbar < 1254526096 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1254526096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding another one confuses me and I have to slow down < 1254526101 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom toolbar < 1254526101 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254526110 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254526119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: as in, whichever toolbar is lowest on the screen < 1254526128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm trained to look for the edges of client areas < 1254526224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab bar, for instanec < 1254526233 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody puts tab bars on the bottom < 1254526235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it harder to click on the tab bar is not a good thing < 1254526237 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of their browser < 1254526239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95: I do < 1254526246 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wikidot toolbar is at the top < 1254526248 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the bottom < 1254526251 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how can it slow you down < 1254526256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, lowest out of the things on top < 1254526260 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254526266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to hit the bottom toolbar of 3 than the third of 4 < 1254526268 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, it looks nothing like a toolbar. < 1254526272 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like web page content. < 1254526293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's toolbarish enough to fool my reflexes < 1254526678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254526817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tab bars on the bottom" made me think of http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif < 1254526838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you trying to blind us all? < 1254526873 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye, time to night. < 1254526877 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1254526898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay, next time I try to remember to use http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/tcpip2.gif which is easier on the eyes, at least as far as colors go. < 1254526926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's trying to poison us with uglyui-poison < 1254526942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would I -- http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewtab.gif -- do such a thing? < 1254527161 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254527213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1254527255 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've just thought of the first troll linux distro. < 1254527460 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how dinky the 95 start menu is < 1254527477 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is it just me, or is the fact I'm abbreviating it to 95 signalling that my brain really likes this thing? < 1254527743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a non-free OS, not a number!" < 1254527760 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254527783 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has embarrasingly not seen the prisoner. < 1254527800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't either. like with 99% of all other memes he passes on < 1254527862 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises something < 1254527876 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I have been putting in people's web logs that i'm using windows 95 :D < 1254527897 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure all the statistics-gatherers will go "wtf" when they see that 1 figure, then pass it off as a forged one < 1254528166 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254528322 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone tried OS/2? < 1254529370 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:40:16] "tab bars on the bottom" made me think of http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif < 1254529374 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly confusing UI there < 1254529627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, doesn't Anonym.OS pretend to be Win98? < 1254529671 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What relevance has this statement? < 1254529689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That some websites see Win98 in their statistics < 1254529692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On occasion < 1254529703 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All those "lol sekurity" distros are retarded; single point of failure? You fail at security! Create this single point just to install Tor and GPG? You fail at life!) < 1254529708 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but Windows 95? < 1254529738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "Windows 98" is a reasonable thing to pretend to be, why not Win95? Maybe there still are a few 95 users out there < 1254529765 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the system is designed to look like Windows XP SP1" < 1254529775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254529778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mistaken < 1254529780 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Anonym.OS is probably rarer than using 95, anyway. < 1254529813 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, there are, at least, two non-hermitty, internetty, savvy people who use 95 as their operating system. < 1254529827 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by choice) < 1254529875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "tab bars on the bottom" made me think of http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif <-- what the fuck < 1254529899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that at least three. < 1254529902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewtab.gif <-- not quite as bad < 1254529907 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate at least 30-50 people. < 1254529921 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are sane, savvy, non-hermitty, internetty and use windows 95 as their main os by choice) < 1254529931 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you serious? < 1254529938 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd take five years just to go through every preference < 1254529956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, "quite as bad, visually, as the first screenshot" < 1254529958 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, now every single pixel is coloured to your specification, what's the app meant to be for again :P < 1254529961 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yeah < 1254529975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah what is the app for < 1254529983 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one only counts if there are additional tabs with upside down text below those fields. :D < 1254529994 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's an app for configuration. < 1254530003 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You configure how you can configure it. < 1254530025 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you could turn those tabs into a list at the side in "User interface". < 1254530066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You configure how you can configure it. <-- so you can configure it while you configure it? < 1254530073 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul sent us this image of the Options dialog from MultiEdit 8.0. To date, we consider this the definitive example of how not to design a tabbed dialog. The sheer number of tabs, combined with the use of iconic labels and the gratuitous use of graphics on the tabs themselves results in a veritable visual assault. Once your eyes recover from the initial assault, you may be able to spot another problem: the use of nested tabs (note that two separate tabs on t < 1254530074 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the latter < 1254530100 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even redesigned it themselves: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewredo.gif < 1254530104 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the posters of it) < 1254530114 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, err, still far too many preferences, but stil < 1254530116 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1254530139 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks lots of options is good when the options dialog has a search box < 1254530140 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While it is our belief that the proliferation of configuration options in MultiEdit has far exceeded the point of diminishing returns" < 1254530145 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap we think alike yes we do < 1254530166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they even redesigned it themselves: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mewredo.gif <-- relatively speaking, quite acceptable < 1254530173 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: i respect your opinion, just please never contribute to any software i might want to use :P < 1254530179 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, it's a good redesign < 1254530202 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still probably take one look at the category list and install something else, though... < 1254530210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously what is the software for < 1254530217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that " AnMaster: It's an app for configuration. You configure how you can configure it." was a joke < 1254530233 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like some text editor < 1254530242 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on what stuff in the image says < 1254530250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, but what about http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/mlstab.gif then < 1254530252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks, file extensions like c < 1254530253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same site < 1254530265 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, that just looks pretty confusing < 1254530267 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/ (old frameset'd site; click Hall of Shame). < 1254530272 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a user interface, well, hall of shame. < 1254530277 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably from the Tabs category. < 1254530284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Isys Information Architects Inc. specializes in the design and development of robust, highly usable information systems. Isys focuses on ease of use, recognizing that software" < 1254530287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1254530306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh cut off... < 1254530312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...should assist the user in the performance of some task rather than becoming a task in itself. " < 1254530325 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1254530327 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, you can still copy the link Hall of Shame points to < 1254530337 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe not with whatever browser you're running on your -95 < 1254530343 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they didn't design those UIs. < 1254530347 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's in their Hall of Shame. < 1254530351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird95, oh ok < 1254530355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1254530358 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, where they mock bad UIs. < 1254530362 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that misses the sidebar < 1254530365 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has the categories < 1254530370 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I wanted to point to Tabs < 1254530374 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm using SeaMonke < 1254530376 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SeaMonkey < 1254530387 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works perfectly well < 1254530400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's fine, I guess < 1254530406 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not some ancient IE at least < 1254530422 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I have, in fact, expunged all parts of IE apart from the actual mshtml DLLs. < 1254530454 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This win95 box, is it a vbox, toy computer or something random you just found lying around? < 1254530454 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do an installation on real hardware those would go too; who uses .chm on 95? :P < 1254530458 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or something else? :P < 1254530459 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vbox < 1254530461 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254530480 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like this enough that a temptation is growing in me to buy an old tiny ThinkPad for fun purpose. < 1254530482 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*purposes < 1254530489 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an old ThinkPad here < 1254530494 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme :P < 1254530503 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1254530507 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail works fine. Admittedly it is running on a Core 2 Duo, but still, only 64MiB RAM. < 1254530509 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father threw out the old one < 1254530513 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're talking a Mozilla Suite descendent here. < 1254530513 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which had 48M RAM < 1254530516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1254530519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1254530531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appropriately low-speccy processor < 1254530537 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll pay you five million bux < 1254530538 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme < 1254530542 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254530544 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually ran DSL pretty fast < 1254530556 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some sort of urge to acquire all the retro hardware in the world, ever < 1254530569 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the enjoyment scale is linear? < 1254530571 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find it hard to realise that dream :P < 1254530595 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/olxerr.gif <-- Confusing error messages <3 < 1254530713 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: No but seriously, what old ThinkPad is it? I'm not so clued up on the old old ThPads despite looking at a bunch of new relatively ones. < 1254530716 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1254530717 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system froze < 1254530732 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 is so smooth when it's... smooth :P < 1254530847 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this isn't the 48M one, sadly enough < 1254530849 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1254530864 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "570" next to the thinkpad logo when I open it at least < 1254530881 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, so before the letter-series. < 1254530886 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that.. I can't find any useful info, not even on the bottom < 1254530899 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: That thing is ooooooold. < 1254530904 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well okay not that old. < 1254530911 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel Mobile Pentium II 300, 333 or 366 CPU" < 1254530913 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile Pentium II 300/333/366 < 1254530915 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap < 1254530916 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254530926 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a whopping 64M RAM < 1254530929 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12" 800x600 or 13" 1024x768, 64MiB RAM, 4/6.4GB HD... < 1254530939 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're reading the same infobox < 1254530946 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkWiki. < 1254530947 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1254530949 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254530951 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1254530962 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda have my eyes on the svelte http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X20, but it's oh-so-overpowered for 95 and its ilk. < 1254530968 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole 500 muhurtz. < 1254530983 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254531005 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A laptop loses its usefulness if you can't run it without the cord plugged in < 1254531021 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are we referring to here < 1254531029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: you can make it into a digital picture frame < 1254531030 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X20 does have a battery... < 1254531039 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I have in front of me < 1254531042 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably so does the 570 < 1254531047 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the battery is quite dead or something like that < 1254531049 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254531054 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1254531061 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a decent computery computer, though. < 1254531062 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer hasn't been used in about a decade < 1254531072 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except from a couple of times the last few years < 1254531146 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you have a nice x86-compat and not be using it all the time. My brain doesn't even have the logical formalizations to express such a concept :P < 1254531219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254531819 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254535032 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254535584 0 :ehird95!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254537295 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254538893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254539958 0 :ehird95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254542217 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254543268 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543268 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254543269 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543276 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543285 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@d83-177-106-207.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254543294 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-60-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254545681 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254548009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254548176 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254548674 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254548732 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kind of hardware do you need to serve 50 200 kb files over http per second? < 1254548809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A system with at least 10MB RAM and an Ethernet port? < 1254548833 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254548897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 Kb or 200 KB? < 1254548926 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilobytes < 1254548933 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 8MBps. < 1254548945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be hard-pressed to find a network stack slower than that. < 1254548949 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot < 1254548984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a C64 with an Ethernet port, then. < 1254548995 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on < 1254549035 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a C64 your disk is mayhaps going to be too slow. Idonno how slow they were, but pretty slow. < 1254549045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With anything from a Tandy up, you're probably A-OK < 1254549049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The disk was absurdly slow. < 1254549063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a C64 can at least drive the Ethernet port sufficiently fast. < 1254549066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... barely.) < 1254549104 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question wasn't what kind of "networking hardware" you'd need, it was what kind of "hardware" you need. < 1254549114 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 megabytes/second is not trivial < 1254549251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a C64 can do it. < 1254549293 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not even be able to get that through 100megabit ethernet with overhead < 1254549310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, bytes, not bits. XD < 1254549349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need 100 megabit Ethernet for that. And believe me, you can get that through with overhead. < 1254549570 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254549584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I challenge you to find a 10mbit ethernet card nowadays :P < 1254549610 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any other hosts up on this network to try < 1254549720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a few < 1254549780 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc a gigabyte or so < 1254550273 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254551946 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1254552125 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254552593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254552761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254556799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254556800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254558807 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d902fe@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1254559381 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in hardware < 1254559957 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indexing is a stupid concept < 1254559972 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for arrays, also for databases, but for different reasons < 1254560134 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even c++ iterators are prettier than code that uses arrays with indices. < 1254560154 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the fact numbers are involved < 1254560157 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate numbers < 1254560160 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't, i guess < 1254560174 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i do like number theory, i find that slightly weird < 1254560261 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the basic number theory course i am on now is basically practical group & field theory < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560266 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560267 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560268 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560270 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560272 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560274 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254560276 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a very weird morning < 1254560386 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo < 1254561330 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would guess the thing you don't like about numbers is the symbols < 1254561807 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do hate base 10 < 1254561848 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for algorithms, the problem with indexes is they make the logic of an algorithm hard to follow < 1254562144 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indices < 1254562159 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm fine with, usually, except when i'm trying to actually read code < 1254562647 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1254563147 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided to check all the sorting algos on the wp list, actually bumped into a few new ones < 1254563161 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was a haskell implementation on strand sort, that was refreshing < 1254563379 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh also bumped into one of our professors < 1254563389 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254563434 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254563496 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told another prof the other day i saw him in wp, he told me "yeah, seen it, should probably rewrite that crap some day" < 1254563641 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254564651 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254565525 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1254565659 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254567089 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254567128 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-42.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254567642 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1254568044 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254570501 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-2-254.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254572802 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254572952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254572969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254572985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1254573025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 0.1 bits is not much < 1254573601 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254573611 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254574673 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254574948 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a bit much, if you ask me < 1254574988 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254576650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254579306 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254580882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, :D < 1254580897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254580901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan :D < 1254580902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1254582180 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254582699 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-177.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254583188 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254584795 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254585127 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-2-254.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585135 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#lojban < 1254585141 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, /join disappeared :( < 1254585208 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-80-222.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585356 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :^C < 1254585356 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254585365 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585365 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254585395 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just bought my cll < 1254585990 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254586052 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-162-151-163.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254586101 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254587020 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254587035 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254587392 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254587977 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Number theory - Basics of Diffie-Hellman: Known parameters: g and p. Alice generates 0 < a < p, computes A = (g^a) mod p and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < p, computes B = (g^b) mod p and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = (B^a) mod p and Bob can compute S2 = (A^b) mod p. Now, S1 = S2 if all goes properly. < 1254588064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, cll? < 1254588068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If p is prime so that p - 1 has large prime factor and order of g is large mod p, then with very high probablilty calculating a from A, b from B or S1 or S2 from A and B is difficult. < 1254588285 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Another way to look at it: If kG is defined to be G + G + ... + G (k G's), G is element of some group: Alice generates 0 < a < orderof(G), computes A = aG and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < orderof(G), computes B = bG and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = aB and Bob can compute S2 = bA. Now if all goes well, S1 = S2. < 1254588756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great ubuntu: "Please insert a blank cd." <-- yeah I did, it claims there isn't though... Time for cd record < 1254588885 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254589093 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254589232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay k3b works < 1254589603 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254589951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After burning a cd that I selected to verify...: Didn't find media in drive. Please insert media. [load] [eject] [force] [cancel] < 1254589956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what "force" does < 1254589982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw the reason that it just didn't pull it back in itself is that this is a laptop drive < 1254590326 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590520 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590608 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: in other words discrete logarithm is suspected to not belong to FP < 1254590616 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not to < 1254590630 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: complete language of lojban < 1254590793 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't know diffie-hellman, we have a separate set of cryptography courses for that stuff < 1254590806 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i haven't done yet < 1254590816 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254590839 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they mentioned discrete logarithm is hard to do, but i knew that beforehand < 1254591151 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254592237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, FP? < 1254592244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating Point? < 1254592288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional Polynomial Time < 1254592303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254592664 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FP: f(x,y) -> boolean, solve for y such that f(x,y) is true, is in FP if there is determisitic polynomial time algorithm that for every x: 1) f(x,y) is solvable in polynomial time, 2) If there exists y such that f(x,y) is true, output some such y, 3) If there is no y such that f(x,y) is true, output that there's no solution. < 1254592714 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea is: Functions evaluable in polynomial time where there may be more output than just single boolean. < 1254592852 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1254592853 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: Difficulty of group discrete logarithm varies from very easy to ~sqrt(|G|) work (which becomes too hard if |G| >~ 2^160...). < 1254592933 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Z_p*, with p - 1 having at least one large enough factor, the discrete log problem is approximately as hard as factoring numbers on order of p. < 1254592957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prime factor < 1254593142 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d902fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-4d4ec80d205dc589 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254593194 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254593249 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254593273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The generic attack against group dlog has runtime proportional to sum of square roots of prime factors of group order). < 1254593415 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254594250 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254594414 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254594437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofog: Difficulty of group discrete logarithm varies from very easy to ~sqrt(|G|) work (which becomes too hard if |G| >~ 2^160...). <-- too hard on current hardware or too hard in some other sense? < 1254594530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say, theoretical limit of some sort) < 1254594706 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hard on current hardware. < 1254594858 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254594860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254595224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, can you panellise it in any way? < 1254596148 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably can be paralelized. But 2^80 work is still too huge for today's hardware... Its equivalent to cracking DES with brute force tens of millions of times... < 1254596159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85b343a3fc8c5007bda2bb490f640f45649595bcc1d76ecce8486d5c267a8b43332f066d2b31252f7688df4fb599d01f54c6105afa90ade6feba6f1f7887f9e7 < 1254596162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1254596164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1254596242 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And already there's move towards elliptic groups of size ~2^224 (~2^112 work) or ~2^256 (~2^128 work). < 1254596301 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128 hex characters -> 512 bits.... Some SHA-512 hash? < 1254596360 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254596434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, correct < 1254596448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for en_windows_7_professional_x64_dvd_X15-65805.iso < 1254596458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from MSDNAA) < 1254596722 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254596736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Some SHA-3 candidates have 1024-bit outputs with enough pipe width for it. < 1254596773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254596814 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard output sizes are 224, 256, 384 and 512, but some have more output sizes than those. < 1254596857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1254596915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, oh? < 1254596915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254596919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, 224 is a bit strange < 1254596925 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@nmd.mcd01412.hou.wayport.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254596962 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is at McDonalds < 1254596970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, public wlan? < 1254596975 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eating FAIL? :-> < 1254596976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1254596981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yeah < 1254596992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's SHA-224... < 1254597000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes a bit strange width < 1254597096 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know how it got to SHA-2. At least SHA-3 requirements have it because SHA-2 has 224-bit mode. < 1254597103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1254597113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely lovely backward compat < 1254597161 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254597240 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some SHA-3 candidates even have variable output sizes (but if it allows to go very high, at some point the hash invariably breaks). < 1254597293 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never heard of SHA-3, only that SHA-1 is deprecated and SHA-2 was recommanded ... or so he thought < 1254597342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SHA-3 is selected by competition (like AES was). There's currently 14 candidates for it. < 1254597403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know CRC32 is lame, but isn't there some new cpu that supports it (but different poly)? < 1254597408 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaks as in: Take E.g. Skein with 1024 bit pipe and 2048 bit output. One can do 2st preimage against that in ~2^1024 time just by brute force... < 1254597510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bets the IBM Roadrunner could brute force most stuff ... < 1254597532 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many PFLOPS it has? < 1254597547 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, lemme check Wikipedia ... < 1254597570 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0 < 1254597577 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1254597585 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed for peak 1.7 < 1254597598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reached 1.026 on may 25, 2008 < 1254597612 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov. 2008: 1.456 < 1254597634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibm_roadrunner < 1254597663 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory: 103.6 TiB < 1254597674 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost: $125 mil (US) < 1254597694 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say 2PFLOPS. Thats 2^51 FLOPS. In year, 2^76 FLOP. < 1254597721 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, those computers are probably optimized for floating point and not as great in integer math. < 1254597739 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard Opterons and Cells (bunch of 'em) < 1254597820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12,960 IBM PowerXCell 8i CPUs < 1254597826 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6,480 AMD Opteron dual-cores < 1254597827 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even that couldn't bruteforce 80-bit symmetric encryption... < 1254597867 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PowerXCell 8i's are improved version of Cell (don't suck in Double-precision floating point). < 1254597897 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION heard the Cell is a pain to program for < 1254597916 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the new cheaper PS3s don't even let you use Linux no more :-P < 1254597940 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes fist even though doesn't care < 1254597948 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the SPUs are bizarre compared to ordinary processors. < 1254597960 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus they only have 256KiB directly accessable memory. < 1254597970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Some SHA-3 candidates even have variable output sizes (but if it allows to go very high, at some point the hash invariably breaks). <-- why does it break? < 1254598027 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Exceed pipe size and it starts to lose information. E.g. Skein-1024-2048 only has ~2^1024 possible outputs. < 1254598059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so it gets worse after that? < 1254598070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just no better than below that limit < 1254598084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254598084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above < 1254598117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No better going above the limit. Also, some constructions start breaking already before the full pipe size is reached. < 1254598139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the pipe here? < 1254598148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot about these sort of things < 1254598150 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal state carried between "blocks". < 1254598168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254598209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Term "Wide pipe" refers to pipe being wider than output (usually in wide pipe design, pipe is twice the output size). < 1254598376 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254598383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the pipe width of SHA-2? < 1254598384 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All practical hashes have constant state size (usually state includes buffer for current block, byte/bit counter and chaining value "pipe"). < 1254598403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 for 224/256-bit output, 512 for 384/512-bit output. < 1254598417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : plus the new cheaper PS3s don't even let you use Linux no more :-P <-- why? < 1254598417 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-1 has 160 bit output and pipe. < 1254598463 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I think 'cause they claim it's not worth the effort to upgrade the firmware (or some lame reason) < 1254598470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why 384... < 1254598486 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-3 competion 1st round candidates included Edon-R (broken). Holy shit it was fast... < 1254598493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some speculate they just didn't like losing money (as they do in all PS3 sales) for clusters, instead preferring only gamers (who buy games, where they make back the money) < 1254598516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 384 is average of 256 and 512 (maybe)? < 1254598536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHA-3 competion 1st round candidates included Edon-R (broken). Holy shit it was fast... <-- huh? < 1254598548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRC32 and Adler32 are really fast, no? but yeah I know they aren't very secure (if at all) < 1254598552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was fast? < 1254598562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edon-R? < 1254598623 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, something like 3 cycles per byte... < 1254598675 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't some VIA chips have a SHA(-1?) instruction? < 1254598766 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the hashes in competition has reported speed of ~3.6 clocks/byte (512-bit, 64-bit host). < 1254599015 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1254599019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 or other? < 1254599038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X64 (Core 2 duo). < 1254599082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1254599302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it comes to encryption algorithms, ridiculous key sizes are good sign of snake oil algorithms... < 1254599335 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a good sign < 1254599419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 bit already starts to be ridiculous for symmetric algorithm. Anything more thant that falls into completely ridiculous category... < 1254599520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 103 TiB of RAM isn't ridiculous? ;-) < 1254599639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 103TiB of RAM in my toaster. < 1254599696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, my toaster scans the bread into its memory banks, then produces computationally and generates it from its bank of raw organic matter. < 1254599711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*produces toast computationally < 1254599727 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah its a replicator < 1254599729 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because what is currently known about physics says that bruteforcing 256-bit keys is impossible. < 1254599733 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... for toast < 1254599758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: I plan to generalize it though. < 1254599770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like for it to pickle things, too. < 1254599790 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it use a brute force algorithm to calculate the best toast? < 1254599881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: oh, I saw your quasi-Feather thing, it's rather unlike Feather, but ofc that doesn't mean it's a bad lang < 1254599892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pretty much every entity in existence is rather unlike Feather < 1254599914 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1254599931 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a feeling it was unlike feather but still good < 1254600001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254600023 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck in your quest to define Feather < 1254600079 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just calculating all the possible keys would require ~5*10^54 J of energy (that's approximately the mass energy in 25 million solar masses). < 1254600716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1024 bit already starts to be ridiculous for symmetric algorithm. Anything more thant that falls into completely ridiculous category... <-- what about asymmetric ones? < 1254600768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254600783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254600792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, what was your quasi-feather thing? < 1254600838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one good thing with dual core is that when something is hogging one CPU you can still easily kill it < 1254600838 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a language I thought of after talking to ais523 about feather < 1254600848 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, more feather thingies? < 1254600850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killall firefox did the trick < 1254600851 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1254600858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, link? < 1254600873 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a prototyped language where you set the initial state of variables rather than their current states < 1254600880 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Deschutron#Deschutroid_Quasifeather < 1254600971 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on base problem. 1024-bit EC key is about 2^512 effort to crack (generic classic attacks can't touch it). 1024-bit discrete is ~2^80 effort (already starting to become too short). < 1254601104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about RSA? < 1254601116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RSA falls into "discrete" class. < 1254601121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254601126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, DH/DSS? < 1254601136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what GPG uses < 1254601144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH/DSS is discrete ECDH/ECDSS is EC < 1254601160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EC meaning? < 1254601165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliptic Curve < 1254601243 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPG can also use DSA2, which defines 2048 (112 bit equivalent) and 3072 (128 bit equivalent) bit keylengths. < 1254601318 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSA2 differs from standard DSA only in that it uses longer keys and SHA-2 hash functions. < 1254601488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, wow that lang looks great < 1254601503 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1254601511 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you like about it? < 1254601514 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It confuses me < 1254601522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254601523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, everything but the java-like syntax < 1254601526 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254601543 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it had a typo in one of the examples, the method finalize/finalized was called the wrong thing somewhere < 1254601578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Variables may be partially defined. 2. You must define a variable with assignment operators, like in a normal imperative p programming language. < 1254601580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo there < 1254601583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"p programming" < 1254601653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, I like the partial variables < 1254601663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I wonder if this may not make it very very hard to execute < 1254601696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of this bahviour, and the general treatment of contradictions, I suspect D.Quasifeather is a declarative programming language. " < 1254601698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254601704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D.Quasifeather"? < 1254601724 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deschutron Quasifeather < 1254601727 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short for Deschutroid Quasifeather < 1254601731 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1254601744 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, just autocompleted and supposed it'd be correct :P < 1254601752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254601759 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't notice the language prefix and nick were different < 1254601806 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interpreter (or compiled program) has to store constraints for partially defined variables. < 1254601816 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can use a function to check assignments against its stored constraints. < 1254601823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, anyway... I suspect you could use partial variable stuff to crack asymetric ciphers < 1254601825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some < 1254601835 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254601837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofog: Number theory - Basics of Diffie-Hellman: Known parameters: g and p. Alice generates 0 < a < p, computes A = (g^a) mod p and sends A. Bob generates 0 < b < p, computes B = (g^b) mod p and sends B. Now Alice can compute S1 = (B^a) mod p and Bob can compute S2 = (A^b) mod p. Now, S1 = S2 if all goes properly. < 1254601839 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1254601842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that example < 1254601864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so make a and b partial variables < 1254601895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, see what I mean? < 1254601902 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1254601905 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might help < 1254601923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, it might thus be rather hard to make an implementation of your language < 1254601928 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it I don't think it can do anything existing constraint programming languages can't do < 1254601941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, well indeed < 1254601948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1254601979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, can you branch based on partial variable? < 1254601983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, no if < 1254601990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you claim it to be TC so... < 1254602007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ spawned Bob; Bob.foo(); (the rest of the loop's code occurs inside the foo() method) < 1254602011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work I think < 1254602017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the current cell is 0 < 1254602026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the loop is never entered < 1254602045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, well? :P < 1254602084 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why do you know so much? < 1254602092 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is the loop never entered? < 1254602103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, in bf? when the current cell is 0 < 1254602121 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** looks up brainfuck < 1254602168 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot [ jumps to the end of the loop if the cell is zero < 1254602175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, yep < 1254602179 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1254602627 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I've found the solution to that problem < 1254602820 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate being a finn, all the other finns are too smart. < 1254602822 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Bob.foo() is a recursive method, and it checks the value at the start of the method < 1254602875 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it can exit the loop from its beginning in the same way as a Brainfuck loop < 1254602913 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone link entfedern for the lazy? :| < 1254602938 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean deschutron's feather < 1254602979 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not so much lazy as internet slowly working having. < 1254603000 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Deschutron#Deschutroid_Quasifeather < 1254603005 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually more like internet being broken just noticing < 1254603011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i hate being a finn, all the other finns are too smart. <-- are they? < 1254603033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone link entfedern for the lazy? :| <-- "entfedern"? < 1254603109 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i consider Ilari, Deewiant and fizzie` smarter than me, dunno about keymaker, irl people are stupid; i consider many others here less smart than me, but not saying finns actually have the lead. < 1254603145 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a vector quantity, most aren't comparable < 1254603159 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial variables can be branched on. e.g. "b = sign(a); b = 1; a = 0;" causes time-sealing. < 1254603176 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn internet < 1254603179 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many Finns are there here? < 1254603210 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: those, at least < 1254603219 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall others < 1254603239 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-101-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254603243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, don't you prefer non-classical music? < 1254603250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rock or something < 1254603285 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mostly i like songs without singing; metal, classic, all sorts of noise, some jazz... < 1254603340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, that is your problem < 1254603349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, you never heard that Mozart makes you smart? ;P < 1254603353 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german entfedern, afaik, means "to rip off feathers", loosely translated < 1254603380 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you all got the joke < 1254603382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, the act of ripping feathers off something? < 1254603394 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but i like mozard < 1254603403 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mozart < 1254603404 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254603426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, oh? I thought you didn't like that sort of classical music? < 1254603426 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might call the language that < 1254603443 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: you should check it means that first :P < 1254603486 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc "ent" is a prefix for something like "away", "federn" being "to feather" < 1254603509 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mozart has instrumentals < 1254603554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes his old Soundblaster Live! 5.1 PCI card is able to put out *noticeable* more bass than either the on-board VIA sound chipset in the same computer or the on-board Intel chipset in the laptop < 1254603565 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he has human sung stuff that is pretty complex, almost instrumental < 1254603576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using same mixer settings (as far as they are found) and same high quality headphones < 1254603606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the SB Live! was a good card. < 1254603612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high quality == studio quality here < 1254603622 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AnMaster: oklofog, the act of ripping feathers off something?" <<< it was in verb form, "to do that" < 1254603626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyerdynamics DT150 < 1254603638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, ah ok < 1254603674 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254603682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes it is. < 1254603684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not was < 1254603686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily < 1254603692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PCI is a bit hard to find nowdays < 1254603700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will be an issue for my next computer < 1254603712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus SB Live! has hardware mixer and hardware midi < 1254603749 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tried to look it up, i found entfernen "to remove, strip off" and feder "feather", but no "entfedern" < 1254603757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting high power on low frequencies is quite difficult. < 1254603785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My SB Live! finally gave up the smoke earlier this year. < 1254603799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, don't know German, but in Swedish (same language group) you can basically freely create new words by concatenation of the right things. < 1254603837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is basically no upper length limit apart from how long your breath lasts. Theoretically. No one would do that due to it being unreasonable < 1254603858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Getting high power on low frequencies is quite difficult. <-- hm :/ < 1254603866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch :( < 1254603905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that seriously sucks a lot < 1254603919 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: it's possible you wouldn't find it in a webdict, my friend's dictionary contains, for some reason, tons of these really weird hunting terms < 1254603940 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entfedern sounds like it might be one of those < 1254603979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since DC coupling to output is not possible (signaficant DC components fry amplifiers) and AC coupling is inheritly bandpass. < 1254603994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, then how do you do it? < 1254603995 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i decide to interpret that as you giving up smoking, because you smoking is such a weird thought < 1254604025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use large enough decoupling capacitors to push the lower freq limit down. < 1254604046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or build higher-powered amplifier. < 1254604050 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254604054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how comes you know this sort of stuff < 1254604066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, plus I have the volume rather low to not damage my hearing < 1254604070 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Ilari, how do you know so much < 1254604075 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254604078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want accurate representation of the sound at that volume < 1254604089 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why < 1254604096 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good enough for me < 1254604104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, what is? < 1254604106 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One friend told that faulty sound card fried his external amplifier with overly large DC component. < 1254604123 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the explanation around entfedern < 1254604135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I wouldn't want my headphones to fry when I'm using them < 1254604176 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are passive, any reasonable DC component probably won't fry them. But active headphones are different matter. < 1254604197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how do I tell the difference? < 1254604226 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look for batteries? < 1254604257 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just understood how my language might crack the Diffie-Hellman point raised earlier < 1254604265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products/headphonesheadsets/headphones.html?tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][showUID]=41&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][backPID]=93&cHash=0fd1ee1ab1 < 1254604274 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess implementations of my language should just accept that there's some things they can't calculate, even if they do have all the information < 1254604277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, in headphones? never seen that < 1254604309 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: there's nothing wrong with being able to write a program to crack DH. you can do that in any lang < 1254604348 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have wireless headphones. These do have batteries. Still wired headphones with batteries are probably rare. < 1254604355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yeah < 1254604356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: ... < 1254604364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these definitely doesn't have headphones < 1254604365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254604365 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't know the definition of "active", i just know our bass player has an "active bass", and it has batteries. < 1254604367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :batteries < 1254604378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: "gave up the smoke" means that the magic smoke came loose from the bord. ;) < 1254604404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, every time I thought that happened it was the damn complex alsa mixer settings that were off < 1254604413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since you had such a card you know what I mean < 1254604434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like recently when it turned out mute was on for the right channel < 1254604446 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My SB Live! (correct use of the interjection?) < 1254604467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, the product is called "Soundblaster Live!" < 1254604470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that "!" < 1254604473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah kind of < 1254604493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather irritating when a product name contains a "! < 1254604494 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe sometimes my jokes are so complicated they aren't even funny. < 1254604494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254604530 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and yeah, i know that < 1254604532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 3dNow! < 1254604533 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: you're right. however i don't want it to do it unexpectedly because the programmer made a certain set of assignments < 1254604566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why not < 1254604566 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't know it, i deduced it. < 1254604629 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually, i'm not sure i don't want it to < 1254604683 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the interjection joke was a continuation of the earlier one, i clearly parsed it as some sort of "OMG", to have understood the giving up the smoke as pikhq quitting smoking, not sure that was obvious < 1254604706 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least AnMaster didn't get it, so explaining is justified < 1254604770 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: stuff can hang unexpectedly in any language, if you don't know what you're doing < 1254604875 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always pronounce those "!"s < 1254604877 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postalveolar_click < 1254604887 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the more high level and declarative, the more this will depend on the implementation < 1254604960 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unexpectedly hanging on the programmer isn't a problem now as I see it. this case at least would not happen too often < 1254605007 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably have to implement diffie hellman, and the ask out of curiosity what the other party's private key is < 1254605059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, please upload a recording where you pronounce "Soundblaster Live! 5.1" < 1254605059 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the problem that the language assumes that if there is enough information to calculate something, then it has access to the answer < 1254605060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254605175 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: that's just the constraint programming version of for i in xrange(big number): ... < 1254605177 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to satisfy that assumption, the language might have to be able to use all sorts of algorithms for unusual situations < 1254605209 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *should* be able to ask stuff that takes too long to calculat. < 1254605210 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1254605230 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it only takes too long, it shouldn't be a problem < 1254605251 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only care now about how long i takes to implement the language < 1254605323 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just start a brute force thread for every query, write special algos for some cases < 1254605340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proves Norfuck Turing-incomplete < 1254605342 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in theory < 1254605349 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's norfuck? < 1254605354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to simulate finite subsets of rule 110 does not make a program TC... < 1254605356 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't link, internet don't flow. < 1254605357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Norfuck < 1254605363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it basically has 3 commands < 1254605368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>: move pointer to the right < 1254605399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<: if current cell is 1, set internal state to true (otherwise leave it the same), move pointer to first cell < 1254605411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!: set current cell to inverse of internal state, set internal state to false, move pointer to first cell < 1254605423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a tape of booleans < 1254605428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 bit of internal state < 1254605432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : deschutron: that's just the constraint programming version of for i in xrange(big number): ... < 1254605436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange? < 1254605439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean range < 1254605444 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1254605447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all that is same as the legacy xrange < 1254605454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python 3 dropped xrange < 1254605462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and range is same as the old xrange < 1254605464 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not using python 3 because it's stupid < 1254605480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly Turing-incomplete due to finite accessible memory < 1254605481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, why is it stupid? < 1254605485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it's a universal FSM < 1254605496 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't remember. < 1254605499 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to make a truly minimal variant of brainfuck the other day. strangely, i had to choose between being a minimal simulation of all brainfuck implementations or being turing complete < 1254605508 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some detail that made me debug a program for ages < 1254605508 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254605512 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division < 1254605522 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer division got its own operator < 1254605524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, you mean / vs. // < 1254605528 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sensible, really < 1254605530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't stupid IMO < 1254605536 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it isn't stupid < 1254605544 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... i hate it < 1254605545 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see? < 1254605549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254605553 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254605567 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried it once, and got pissed, it's probably better in every way. < 1254605575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, I like the python 2.5-and-later syntax for ?: foo if condition else bar < 1254605615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i tried to make a truly minimal variant of brainfuck the other day. strangely, i had to choose between being a minimal simulation of all brainfuck implementations or being turing complete <-- eh? < 1254605637 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really like python anymore... or any language except a few nonexistant ones of my own, but umm isn't that from perl < 1254605655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, maybe. I don't know perl < 1254605658 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ifelse thinger < 1254605668 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1254605692 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it have loops < 1254605700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: program repeats when it ends < 1254605703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has just the one loop < 1254605735 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should really define turing completeness < 1254605740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : although I think it's a universal FSM <- how do you prove it? < 1254605749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, being able to do everything an UTM can < 1254605750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1254605751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it < 1254605753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: compile some other FSM to it < 1254605760 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a universal fsm? < 1254605761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as? < 1254605774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: an FSM that any other FSM can be compiled to < 1254605775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, I was hoping to ask that indirectly < 1254605784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and FSM description language that any FSM can be described in < 1254605788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sloppy with language < 1254605802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and/an/ < 1254605802 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't really help with the finite/infinite issue < 1254605812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, eh? < 1254605833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: suppose you have a language in which you can reasonably write an infinitely long program < 1254605839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, cat < 1254605842 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: proofs of 110 and ais523's tm require infinite starting conditions < 1254605843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1254605844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even cat is TC by your definition < 1254605857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, /which/ infinite starting conditions do you need? < 1254605858 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tm requires a rather complex starting pattern < 1254605867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1254605867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't able to do everything that a UTM can < 1254605872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it is < 1254605872 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no definition for whether that's allowed < 1254605876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was sloppy with langauge < 1254605879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being equivilent to < 1254605880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is better < 1254605885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you run all possible programs in parallel < 1254605888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent* < 1254605893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever any produces output, you write the program and its output to a file < 1254605896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you feed that file to cat < 1254605901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, cat can do anything a UTM can < 1254605918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, that input is far too complex to demonstrate TCness with; the TCness is in the input, not the lang itself < 1254605933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. Lets say then "Being equivalent to an UTM" < 1254605951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a big row with Professor Pratt about whether it's possible to get TC behaviour from a sub-TC-generable input fed into a sub-TC language < 1254605952 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really isn't a definition. < 1254605953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it isn't < 1254605968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog, well ok < 1254605972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he isn't sure on the issue, and thinks it isn't obvious either way < 1254605980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so define it yourself them < 1254605984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1254605995 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profs here that prove undecidability for a living, at least, say there's no actual definition < 1254606004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: so do I < 1254606012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes ais523 ninjaed him on Norfuck but posts his comment anyhow < 1254606014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1254606018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you can give necessary and sufficient definitions < 1254606019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI hard? Not at all < 1254606020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can there be no definition? < 1254606022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately they aren't the same < 1254606028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-between, mathematicians disagree < 1254606028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was scrolled up < 1254606037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, PCI hard? :D < 1254606046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that more than NP Hard? < 1254606048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-03 23:01:32 ( AnMaster) but PCI is a bit hard to find nowdays < 1254606048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or less < 1254606062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok then... ISA is < 1254606063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what I was trying to respond to < 1254606083 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254606099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1254606101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need ISA for? < 1254606102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 95 any more? < 1254606103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeaMonkey on 95 crashes a lot, so I'm back using my host OS. < 1254606114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use Opera/ < 1254606117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nothing < 1254606138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Opera crashes less, admittedly, but it's slower and also freezes the computer more. < 1254606146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Opera 9; Opera 10 also uses all my system resources.) < 1254606160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, freezing computer counts as crashing doesn't it? < 1254606168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if it unfreezes. < 1254606190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1254606191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254606202 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slower than what? < 1254606205 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, SeaMonkey < 1254606213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; hard to believe, eh? < 1254606217 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's kinda hard to find a definition without deciding on a formalism. < 1254606228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm used to Opera being pretty fast < 1254606230 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254606238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full bloated Mozilla Suite and Gecko vs a light-weight, snappy browser that has a reputation of working on older hardware. < 1254606242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the first is faster! < 1254606257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Windows 95 isn't much of a target platform, though. < 1254606266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sad that microsoft didn't stick to 9x design < 1254606276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI-wise, yes. Kernel-wise, fuck no < 1254606280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9x is unstable as shit < 1254606285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was my point! < 1254606292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? Because then Linux and OS X would have ruled the world by now < 1254606293 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you upload a file? < 1254606307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: text or other? < 1254606309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if other filebin.ca < 1254606310 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original "definition" was you have a finite pattern plus padding, which isn't really a formal definition without a definition of what is considered padding; and also that definition disallows the kinds of proofs used for 110 and aismachine < 1254606313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if text pastebin.ca < 1254606319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nobody much switched to Linux because of 9x. < 1254606321 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other < 1254606326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1254606329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: if image imgur.com < 1254606339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably because 9x booted really quickly and Linux didn't catch up until this decade. < 1254606342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, to the wiki? < 1254606343 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound file? < 1254606349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: filebin.ac < 1254606351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ca < 1254606355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah filebin.ca < 1254606357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So 9x crashing is less important :-P < 1254606390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if MS had stuck to 9x still at this time though < 1254606419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to see you run windows ME for a bit :P < 1254606419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games, inertia etc. MS would have been here to stay unless they made something totally unusable, which they've never done. < 1254606425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did for years. < 1254606435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it crashes a lot with most hardware, but it's tolerable to a point. < 1254606438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that explains a LOT. < 1254606457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A totally unusable OS would never get past MS' gates (har har) purely because, well, they *do* test these things. < 1254606461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1254606467 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/jxpepe/soundblasterlive!.mp3 < 1254606470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It sort of scarred me. < 1254606484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: Soundblaster?? Is this whole channel casting a retro-fad spell? < 1254606528 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel casting? < 1254606532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254606546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why do you pronounce it like that < 1254606548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channels be spiritual entities. < 1254606567 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then the exclamation mark has a point. < 1254606576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, why the american sound < 1254606593 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has become a letter and not a punctuation mark, and is therefore completely out of place < 1254606593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try some UK English < 1254606598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot less draaawling < 1254606614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that is the word) < 1254606631 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it comes up again, i will use received pronunciation then < 1254606638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, heh < 1254606652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, I was just making fun of US English. No offence meant . < 1254606658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ ././ < 1254606661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1254606662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254606664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ \././ < 1254606669 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is i'm australian < 1254606677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, oh? Sounds like US English < 1254606689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, maybe the lack of "gday mate" mislead me < 1254606698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:30 I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254606698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:44 But then, I challenge you to find a 10mbit ethernet card nowadays :P < 1254606700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any old computer < 1254606703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like older than 2000 < 1254606704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I really do wish Microsoft stuck with a 95-esque interface. That was a very usable UI. Not the nicest-looking thing ever, but Microsoft's track record with aesthetics is such that I prefer utilitarian over their idea of "beauty". ;) < 1254606739 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans would say blaster differently, right? like a long form of the 'a' in cat < 1254606745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the widgets were usable enough. I'm not going to glorify it, though; 95's design ran into a wall, both GUI-wise and kernel-wise. < 1254606756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's been just running around aimlessly since. < 1254606760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1254606765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to find out what the context of this conversation is. < 1254606777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few lines up about 10 minutes ago. < 1254606785 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft's been investing a bit into touch screen devices, apparently < 1254606790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.10.03 ;; that first oklopol monologue is art < 1254606798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some stack munging. w00ts. < 1254606823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i don't believe in hardware" < 1254606827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great quote < 1254606840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254606851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Array indexing? < 1254606855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:29:29 I assumed 100mbit from the start. < 1254606856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:29:45 what the heck < 1254606856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethernet < 1254606876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean there's something other than <$>? < 1254606882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan was what-the-hecking at 100millibit :P < 1254606887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/fmap/map/liftM2...) < 1254606921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh :D < 1254606923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, tell me... do you understand: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/IrregularPodcast007.mp3 < 1254606971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hear a few words, but i can't make out words in singing usually. sounds perfectly comprehensible to me, though. < 1254606987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no after the singing < 1254606988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254606991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1254606994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you didn't specify. < 1254606996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you < 1254606999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry indeed < 1254607007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*listens* < 1254607016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first it is easy to understand < 1254607020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it gets worse and worse < 1254607028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_actually_, the what the heck was about my double pasting, my old senile three year old computer does weird freeze ups close to startup < 1254607058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it didn't register the first paste, and i thought i'd forgotten to press ^C < 1254607064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay this is pretty meaningless. < 1254607110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:55:59 85b343a3fc8c5007bda2bb490f640f45649595bcc1d76ecce8486d5c267a8b43332f066d2b31252f7688df4fb599d01f54c6105afa90ade6feba6f1f7887f9e7 < 1254607114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR NEW PGP KEY EH < 1254607152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:08:45 --- join: Rugxulo (n=user@nmd.mcd01412.hou.wayport.net) joined #esoteric < 1254607152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:09:22 * Rugxulo is at McDonalds < 1254607161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most embarrassing hostname ever? < 1254607172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that hostname? < 1254607183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it identifies you as being at mcdonalds < 1254607232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, I wonder what fun OS I should try now < 1254607238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe the last BeOS < 1254607243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what all the fuss is about < 1254607307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so hard is it to understand that podcast? < 1254607326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously. I doubt it'd be easy for an Australian, either. < 1254607336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same < 1254607354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I asked deschutron < 1254607689 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607724 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you see the in the history of the Australian dialect, apparently, there was a guy who went around causing all kinds of trouble. and then the presenter driving through the country at some point, and he found a mechanic, who was completely drunk, and had dinner with him. < 1254607735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: ... < 1254607738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be making this up X_X < 1254607744 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ s/presenter driving/presenter was driving/ < 1254607760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even understand regular english talked that quickly < 1254607771 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an important story in our dialectic history < 1254607784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, you mean you understand it? < 1254607800 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607801 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 70% < 1254607803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a transcript at http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast007.html < 1254607804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1254607808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with annotations < 1254607812 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254607821 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254607826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi frater_aleph < 1254607828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who're you < 1254607829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a cardinal < 1254607838 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi :) < 1254607839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254607845 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any R+C here? < 1254607848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R+C? < 1254607926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we take that as a no < 1254607935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1254607939 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1254607950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're you talking about :| < 1254607971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph, this is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica. Just want to make that clear early on < 1254607986 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254607987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue what "R+C" is either < 1254607989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should move to #esoterica and have lots more fun with people mistaking it < 1254607992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254607995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that got rid of him < 1254608004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or just connection issues < 1254608009 0 :frater_aleph!n=chatzill@190.53.19.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254608015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that. < 1254608016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as shown < 1254608018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi frater_aleph, what is R+C. < 1254608026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you saw this: < 1254608028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : frater_aleph, this is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica. Just want to make that clear early on < 1254608080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAAAAAAAAAAAR DINOSAURS < 1254608087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaurs with inquiring minds want to know what R+C is. < 1254608099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptors + ? < 1254608100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't ignore a dinosaur would you? Because that would be fatal. < 1254608104 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok hahahahaha < 1254608107 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry anmaster < 1254608107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The ? is the ELEMENT OF SUSPENSE < 1254608112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph: WHAT IS R+C < 1254608113 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254608115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must know < 1254608117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frater_aleph, I have no clue what R+C is either < 1254608118 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RosiCrucian < 1254608124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptors + cardinals from the spanish inquisition < 1254608127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sounds like esoterica < 1254608128 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1254608131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254608132 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ppl take care :) < 1254608132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shweet, a retarded secret society < 1254608134 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1254608140 0 :frater_aleph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254608141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!test < 1254608141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1254608143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are used to people mistaking < 1254608148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with name clashes is that the people we're mistaken for are all deluded idiots :( < 1254608160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or russian musicians/ < 1254608170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THERE A DIFFERENCE < 1254608172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Remote Controlled < 1254608174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what? < 1254608181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lima! :-[ < 1254608186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ask ehird for the story < 1254608192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ask tunes.org, a day or two ago < 1254608195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254608195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dares not < 1254608197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell us the story < 1254608202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure whether it was a legitimate confused person, or a troll... < 1254608220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legit. < 1254608229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, how long ago was it?? < 1254608235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the 28th onwards < 1254608282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it lima or lina < 1254608308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1254608310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it < 1254608328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happened in a parallel dimension < 1254608339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where esoteric means something completely different < 1254608343 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254608357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, WTF? clog evidently didn't pick itu p < 1254608358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes about russian musicians I guess < 1254608358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it up < 1254608363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was while I was 95 < 1254608364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell us about it then < 1254608367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long was I 95? < 1254608369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or two days? < 1254608376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, three or four? < 1254608387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me what to grep for < 1254608390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, actually < 1254608390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can find it < 1254608393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have complete logs < 1254608399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1254608405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go < 1254608407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.10.02 < 1254608409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep 'linf' < 1254608460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : some speculate they just didn't like losing money (as they do in all PS3 sales) < 1254608465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense, they surely make a profit < 1254608474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high-end games console as a loss leader is ridiculous < 1254608513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:52:00 and 103 TiB of RAM isn't ridiculous? ;-) < 1254608521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's needed for the purpose of the RR < 1254608542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103 TiB of RAM is quite a lot... < 1254608556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the IBM RoadRunner, which is more a supercomputer cluster (tens of thousands of CPUs in "blade nodes") < 1254608574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at about 1.5 petaflops atm < 1254608579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In November 2008, it reached a top performance of 1.456 petaflops, retaining its top spot in the TOP500 list." < 1254608585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be completed this year < 1254608588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I are having many english speakings thanking much < 1254608589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12,960 IBM PowerXCell 8i CPUs, 6,480 AMD Opteron dual-core processors, Infiniband, Linux < 1254608592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1254608593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM made it < 1254608603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's owned by the US military < 1254608605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DOE plans to use the computer for simulating how nuclear materials age in order to predict whether the USA's aging arsenal of nuclear weapons are safe and reliable. Other uses for the Roadrunner include the sciences, financial, automotive and aerospace industries." < 1254608638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering how it's basically a bunch of servers wired together with a fast link, I'd call it more of a server farm < 1254608669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly a lot of supercomputers are that today; still < 1254608749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supercomputers, the hive minds of computing < 1254608801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This language is only Turing complete when it has errors." :D < 1254608845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting if someone found an important research computation task that was completely non-parallelizable < 1254608884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hardware development since 2000 (?) or so would be useless for it < 1254608893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how important < 1254608901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if such a task exists, it's pretty hopeless < 1254608905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chips can only run so fast... < 1254608921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, some new way of simulating quantum physics... < 1254608939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, modern workstations rival supercomputers in serial execution speed... < 1254608973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that could at least be treated as a dependency graph of some sort... < 1254608986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thu "interesting if" < 1254608994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1254608996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thus < 1254609002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, quantum physics is possibly uncomputable < 1254609023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untractable < 1254609028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254609041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the same, mathematically < 1254609098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, could be. < 1254609112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by untractable < 1254609114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the theory is even weirder < 1254609124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untractable = superpolynomial < 1254609146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still weaker than uncomputable, but not in practice < 1254609150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well superpolynomial doesn't seem so bad < 1254609163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we can solve small NP-complete problems on today's computers; admittedly it blows up really fast < 1254609178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imagine a computer bigger than a million galaxies; I'm sure it could simulate a few atoms... < 1254609215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and obviously even thinking about simulating it until we can build such computers is rather futile) < 1254609273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a theory that simulating quantum systems with quantum computers would not be superpolynomial < 1254609292 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is fungot? < 1254609296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the difficulty is purely in the quantum part < 1254609303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1254609307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it's dead. < 1254609309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(((( < 1254609310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1254609312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie FIZZIE < 1254609316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` < 1254609322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` fizzie` fizzie` FIZZIE~ < 1254609325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot we hardly knew ye < 1254609334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gone, in fact < 1254609342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254609344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: anyway, bot in befunge < 1254609350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it babbles < 1254609357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and squabbles < 1254609361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slices and dices < 1254609366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zem.fi is down < 1254609374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as its gehennom.org alias < 1254609379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` is `-ified < 1254609386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS HAPPENING < 1254609400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well fizzie is from zem.fi atm < 1254609403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie` that is < 1254609405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it became sentient recently < 1254609409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as we can tell < 1254609420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it thought the conversation in here was too inane and left < 1254609422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the finns have accidentally produced a black hole, and the country is gone < 1254609439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: taking down zem.fi with it? :P < 1254609452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, right, singularity < 1254609453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bet you wish you'd made me Friendly. *zap*" < 1254609466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're actually all executing a little fungot right now. < 1254609490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that'll be funGOD to you, from now on!" < 1254609566 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this one of those "he still executes, in our hearts", things? < 1254609575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254609580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a superhuman AI < 1254609584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hacked into all of our computers. < 1254609589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254609597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah where is fungot < 1254609601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively we have rather more computing power than that squalid zem.fi place, but considerably more latency < 1254609618 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and became the technological singularity, and conquered finland? < 1254609630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Ilari talked recently... < 1254609638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, yeah. And he was written in befuge < 1254609640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe he's actually swedish) < 1254609641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge* < 1254609645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: has been said. < 1254609648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so has been < 1254609648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254609649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that was just at first. then he transfered to biological power, so indeed he _does_ execute in our hearts now. as well as our brains, livers and spleens. < 1254609665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is that really more efficient < 1254609667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just got an update < 1254609669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's now pure energy < 1254609673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and living in our wires < 1254609682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is computing... at the speed of light. < 1254609685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not just one, no < 1254609694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is parallelised across the whole globe < 1254609707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically soon we'll be jetting off into space. < 1254609724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he just invented ftl communication < 1254609728 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Ilari spoke because he allowed Ilari to speak. Post singularity robots work in mysterious ways... < 1254609741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and slices and dices <-- but does it blend? < 1254609747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, ilari had to give us that all-important information about cryptography < 1254609754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you are not careful < 1254609759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh you just put that song in my head < 1254609763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for the bad joke) < 1254609769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what song < 1254609773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what song < 1254609789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&fmt=18, skip to 32s for the bit now in my head < 1254609795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: ftl travel < 1254609801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on reddit a while back < 1254609858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fmt 32 is better isn't it? < 1254609862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254609865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 < 1254609867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have the hd option, I don't think. < 1254609871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all videos do < 1254609873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most don't < 1254609882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, youtube-dl downloads it just fine with fmt 35 < 1254609885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 22 < 1254609885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254609889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the HQ version, presumably < 1254609897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD* < 1254609899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a new HQ? < 1254609900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&fmt=35 then < 1254609903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell any difference < 1254609904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non-18 is mono < 1254609910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a song, 18 helps... < 1254609915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 35 mono?? < 1254609918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, non 18 as default) < 1254609919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is) < 1254609923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the higher qualities) < 1254609926 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know i had an idea that a post-singularity intelligence might employ people to read news articles and academic papers and summarise them for it, until it had finished learning the nuances of human communication < 1254609946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: it would be vital to build human communication into it as much as possible from the start < 1254609950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 35 mono or not? < 1254609954 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1254609957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't know, almost certainly not < 1254609957 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: otherwise it can't really analyze humanity to find out what its wishes would be (if we were more intelligent and our opinions cohered more) < 1254610241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some freenode disconnectation thing. < 1254610241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnaa, the computer fungot runs on doesn't answer at all. < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singularity. < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's totally frazzled, don't bother < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the only way it could escape: down the ethernet port. < 1254610241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singularity is the new ping timeout < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was, understandably, ...taxing for the components < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is the new "peer did it" < 1254610241 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be really intelligent, but not up to date on all of our culture, during its early days humans might be able to do some things faster than it < 1254610241 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the least, the humans doing work for it will free up some of its own cpu cycles < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap! Ubuntu knows how many emails are unread in gmail... though it gives the wrong count < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution started up < 1254610241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do I kill it < 1254610241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a good song < 1254610242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's catchy < 1254610250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will we humans ever get bored of autotune < 1254610251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah, my web server laptop has died. No signs of life whatsoever, not even the "AC adapter connected" indicator. < 1254610254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer is no) < 1254610258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I TOLD YOU < 1254610270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open it up and see the fried network controller < 1254610298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's either the laptop, or the AC adapter itself; but that's not so easy to troubleshoot without a replacement AC adapter. < 1254610305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : will we humans ever get bored of autotune <-- ? < 1254610312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotune? < 1254610321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: autotune is the pitch-correcting software modern "singers" use, cough cough < 1254610332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some rappers use it with zero transition time giving a weird vocoder-style effect) < 1254610335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that song was made with it. < 1254610343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of carl sagan speaking < 1254610346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and stephen hawking < 1254610347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, it's either the laptop, or the AC adapter itself; but that's not so easy to troubleshoot without a replacement AC adapter. <--- multimeter < 1254610372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, hm < 1254610374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I guess that should indicate at least something. < 1254610391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (I mean, he couldn't exactly make that song, being dead and all that.) < 1254610407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I know it was recorded *before* he died < 1254610409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda dampens your song-making ability. Well, unless you're tupac. < 1254610416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tupac? < 1254610430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur, who has had like 174 albums released post-humerously. < 1254610436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oblig. "HE'S NOT DEAD") < 1254610464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again I guess he had no song-making ability to start with. < 1254610466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, ice burn. < 1254610501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyes burn. < 1254610520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spurn < 1254610551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so how was that autotune used? On old recorded speech of Carl Sagan? < 1254610564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the Cosmos TV series, circa 1980. < 1254610576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254610584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyes cream, eyes burn, what can't eyes do? < 1254610617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can take *speech* and turn into a *song*? < 1254610626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1254610632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since, like, a decade, yes. < 1254610634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1254610647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, just the vocals. < 1254610649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1254610667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it doesn't come up with a backing track and make edits for you. Yet. < 1254610671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1254610686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "official" purpose of Auto-Tune is to correct the pitch of, well, bad singers. But it sounds artificial. < 1254610686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are no volts coming out the AC adapter. < 1254610696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is blind to the truth of fungot. < 1254610701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE IN DENIAL < 1254610719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fizzie is physically in the same space as fungot? < 1254610728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear he is lost to us then < 1254610740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean yes I can see how you can adjust the *tune* in singing. But turning *speech* into *singing* is a bit harder... < 1254610749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot escaped through ethernet, or probably the AC adapter considering things < 1254610764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, same thing. Changing the timing is just stretching/shortening it, and then changing the pitch to be musical. < 1254610772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like speaking has a pitch. < 1254610773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254610776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like speaking doesn't have a pitch. < 1254610787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254610821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then it is a safe bet that is dead and the laptop isn't < 1254610826 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no fungot here < 1254610828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the same line is the ever-present genre of "remix a bad TV advert"; e.g. one of the better examples, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA < 1254610831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to hear some truth < 1254610832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, escaping through the power lines? let's hope he doesn't reach a nuclear power station. i think i recall a film like that. < 1254610852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Along the same line < 1254611048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILENCE < 1254611069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more difference between singing and speaking than just twiddling the speech fundamental frequency to follow some musical melody. Though I'm sure you could do other tricks too and get something that approximates singing. < 1254611074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Among the same line is the ever-present genre of "remix a bad TV advert"; e.g. one of the better examples, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA <-- that was extremely bad < 1254611089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's amusing and kinda catchy, but admittedly without music musical merit. < 1254611095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit weird they could add the music-allness to it < 1254611098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, autotuned speech doesn't really sound like singing. < 1254611098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same tricks are needed to make Auto-Tune work. .. < 1254611103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1254611105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"music-allness" xD < 1254611125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-Tune sounds really, really painfully artificial because of that sort of thing. < 1254611129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that failed < 1254611145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music-allness: the philosophy for jamming Buddhists. < 1254611153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254611156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I want a lava lamp. < 1254611341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1254611345 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-103-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254611351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're pretty. < 1254611361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I just kind of... like the idea. < 1254611393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make a USB lava lamp. :P < 1254611395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I heard a lot of people think that they are.... naff < 1254611400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, of course they do: http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=usb+lava+lamp < 1254611418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I saw one ages ago at thinkgeek < 1254611422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We had one in the old house; the blobs move around and littel else. < 1254611425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*little else < 1254611429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not super-exciting, no. < 1254611472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254611551 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254611657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it5878 < 1254611659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254611665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's 1993-10-5878. < 1254611813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: first, win95, now lava lamps? are you living history backwards? < 1254611824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1254611826 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon, he shall be born < 1254611830 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1254611833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1254611911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2004, Phillip Quinn, a 24-year-old of Kent, Washington, was killed during an attempt to heat up a lava lamp on his kitchen stove while closely observing it from only a few feet away. The heat from the stove built up pressure in the lamp until it exploded, spraying shards of glass with enough force to pierce his chest, with one shard piercing his heart and causing fatal injuries." < 1254611939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't do that. < 1254611996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm in the video there is a short display of Steven Hawkings interface < 1254611997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254611998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1254612006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's UNIX; he knows this. < 1254612027 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254612044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean the 8. return to main menu\nYes\nNo\nMaybe\nI don't know\nThank you < 1254612058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1254612063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it WILL be slow to type. < 1254612067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not an option ;P < 1254612076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is, he can "type". < 1254612082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course < 1254612086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just joking < 1254612100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254612122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's a whole submenu for "answers to shitty questions about black holes and time". < 1254612127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254612149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, joke or truth? < 1254612168 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black holes my ass < 1254612182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Joke. < 1254612187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254612194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: your ass is probably a black hole. we humans do not have internal lighting < 1254612209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact we're woefully unupgradable. we're the iMacs of species! < 1254612217 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1254612247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the video shows he can move his eyes so why not use an eye tracker and that rather fast interface dasher < 1254612291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably easier to use his throat < 1254612306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1254612324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems slow < 1254612330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does he control the movement though < 1254612362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with a menu. < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer system attached to his wheelchair is operated by Hawking via an infra-red 'blink switch' clipped onto his glasses. By scrunching his right cheek up, he is able to talk, compose speeches, research papers, browse the World Wide Web and write e-mail. The system also uses radio transmission to provide control over doors in his home and office. < 1254612376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254612377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just hope it can hit stop in time < 1254612383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the most reliable source imaginable, http://yedda.com/questions/technology_disability_accessibility_5041107413951/ < 1254612388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It? :P < 1254612406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does Hawking actually write research papers? TeX must be a bitch.) < 1254612408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you see the extra space < 1254612410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nowadays that is.) < 1254612417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was a mess up < 1254612422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was joking. < 1254612432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hope he can stop it" and then change the sentence < 1254612441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the messup < 1254612488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the throat stuff isn't true? < 1254612495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you should never change the sentence writing < 1254612497 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be pretty cool to be famous via a ~5 b/s link to the world < 1254612500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I read it somewhere. < 1254612511 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1254612514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog: scrunching cheeks is 5B/s? < 1254612516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bits < 1254612531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure how you came to 5 :D < 1254612534 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say b i mean b, but yeah started thinking it might be a bit too much < 1254612545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can type b five times a second? < 1254612550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is bits, B is bytes < 1254612555 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1254612561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey just checking. < 1254612576 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just thought i meant B by b a few weeks ago < 1254612581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT OUR kiB VS KiB DISPUTE < 1254612581 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way around < 1254612597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, k is always kilo < 1254612601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no k the other way < 1254612605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254612607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and K is for kelvin < 1254612610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is kiB < 1254612613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not KiB < 1254612613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KiB is standardised, but kiB uses the SI-prefix-plus-i logic < 1254612623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh didn't know that < 1254612624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A kibibyte (a contraction of kilobinary byte, pronounced KEE-bee-byte) is a unit of information or computer storage, established by the International Electrotechnical Commission in 2000. Its symbol is KiB." < 1254612628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's illogical < 1254612628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I was going for the second < 1254612630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be kiB < 1254612637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we come into a dispute of standards vs logic! < 1254612647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's not exactly uncommon for standards < 1254612657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only unobjectionable standard I can think of is SI :-P < 1254612695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In The Art of Computer Programming, Donald Knuth proposed that this unit be called a large kilobyte (abbreviated KKB). Other early proposals included using the Greek letter κ for 1024 bytes (and using k exclusively for 1000), bK, K₂B, and others. "KiB" is the only method that has gained any traction.]] < 1254612699 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you removed all the kilos and shit from SI, it would be nice < 1254612700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large kilobyte, KKB < 1254612705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst name and unit ever < 1254612716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, kappa? < 1254612720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ridiculously confusing < 1254612725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large kilokelvin < 1254612728 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again so would any other system where units make sense < 1254612740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't even want to mention K₂B. bK is silly; bKB?) < 1254612762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 KKK, a hot white temperature < 1254612766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1254612768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1254612769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: burn! < 1254612775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee < 1254612777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot, burn < 1254612777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KB is 1024, kB is 1000 < 1254612778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot white, KKK < 1254612779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOUBLE PUN < 1254612785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits with large/small < 1254612788 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K would be nice < 1254612790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wonderfully confusing < 1254612793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: give me a k with the combining dot on top < 1254612799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ask fizzie < 1254612801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1254612802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie! < 1254612832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K̇? Or a small K? < 1254612838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small. < 1254612843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k̇, then. < 1254612857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = 1000, k = 1024 < 1254612859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA < 1254612876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, fizzie's line has a tiny dot, but mine doesn't. Must be a very, very small dot. < 1254612884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1254612898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1254612899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said k. < 1254612918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid copy/paste. < 1254612920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... I meant 'gah, now I have "a still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxyrise" stuck in my head' < 1254612923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1254612928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking apart from you. < 1254612931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254612939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rephrase that awkwardlikely less-so.) < 1254612944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use kͥ -- that's k with the combining latin small letter i on top. < 1254612972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k̇ = 1024? < 1254612985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254612986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1254612993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster.) < 1254613003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I know! < 1254613006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why a damn combining i? < 1254613010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serifed k is 1024. < 1254613013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sans, whatever. < 1254613019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it ends up at k^i < 1254613021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than above < 1254613024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me at least < 1254613032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here. < 1254613052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually looks like: k' < 1254613053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 𝔨𝔅 should be enough for everyone. < 1254613075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have used the fraktur ... numbers. :P < 1254613125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit more blurry < 1254613130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately there are only five sets of numbers; 𝟒𝟜𝟦𝟰𝟺. < 1254613183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 640 𝔨𝔅 should be enough for everyone. <-- 640 box box? < 1254613193 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1254613197 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 box box box box < 1254613198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is that < 1254613200 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At lesat in this font < 1254613203 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least' < 1254613204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fraktur characters again. < 1254613214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unfortunately there are only five sets of numbers; 𝟒𝟜𝟦𝟰𝟺. <-- those all display! < 1254613255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kcharselect couldn't find your fraktur chars < 1254613329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: They're outside the BMP, I think that tool had some sort of limitations there. < 1254613333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a usenet group called 24hoursupport.helpdesk. Such weird hierarchies. < 1254613343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: KDE is BMP-only < 1254613350 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oki < 1254613356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not even PNG! :-P) < 1254613556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Autotune5.png <-- why do all sound editing apps use weird UIs like that < 1254613610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of NATIVE controls? < 1254613618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like real musical equipment, man! Must be usable. < 1254613625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, native controls? < 1254613632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1254613648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254613651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google chrome < 1254613661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't complain Chrome wasn't; Chrome is fine. < 1254613668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, native controls don't look like real musical equipment. < 1254613672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore how can they possibly be used? < 1254613681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I especially love those dials; so *easy* to turn with a mouse!) < 1254613695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster: yhbt) < 1254613702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((AnMaster: yhl)) < 1254613705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((AnMaster: hand))) < 1254613724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1254613737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the acronym ends there. < 1254613752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254613759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I especially love those dials; so *easy* to turn with a mouse!) <-- sarcasm? < 1254613769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YHBT YHL HAND < 1254613779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that expand to < 1254613785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YHBT YHL HAND, naturally. < 1254613791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254613798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you think of it < 1254613800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, you know, Google it. < 1254613817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was something you just made up < 1254613879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.... don't see how it applies here < 1254613882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1254613894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? < 1254613895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254613895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and google chrome < 1254613900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254613901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254613907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1254613919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware of that I said that < 1254613925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always control the natives, i say < 1254613942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254613948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controls as in GUI controls < 1254613950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1254613954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-* < 1254613991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the gui wants to control natives, i won't be against it < 1254613995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let us weep for AnMaster's now even further impaired sarcasm & joke detection system's degradation < 1254614004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his brain is failing. < 1254614005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramen < 1254614009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramen < 1254614015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this is a prayer? < 1254614028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Therefore how can they possibly be used? <-- of course that is sarcasm < 1254614031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254614035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn < 1254614043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't* see how trolling was involved < 1254614046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you accidentally the apostrophe < 1254614055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I fixed it < 1254614060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the next row < 1254614079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you took the sarcasm as serious and responded in turn with examples of how I'm a hypocrite to like non-native controls < 1254614088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254614092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, you complained seamonkey wasn't using that < 1254614108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and google chrome < 1254614108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERRNO < 1254614110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you did. < 1254614135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought your " Eh?" was that you didn't understand, thus the two extra lines < 1254614155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, native controls? still counts. < 1254614165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254614177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If at any point the vision of the observer ended at the surface of a tree, wouldnt the observer only see white? This contradicts the darkness of the night sky and leads many to wonder why we do not see only light from stars in the night sky" --Wikipedia, truly a stellar example. < 1254614181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldnt indeed. < 1254614187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natives don't count. not beyond three, at any rate. < 1254614200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("If at any point the vision of the observer ended at the surface of a tree, wouldnt the observer only see white" is also a fun example of leaving out some logical steps.) < 1254614218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254614228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know what that is *supposed* to be < 1254614239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is seriously messed up yeah < 1254614259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think DMM described the basic idea in a podcast < 1254614269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1254614308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it is about why the night sky isn't pure white < 1254614337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is because the universe isn't infinitely old, but I was more responding to the very shoddy writing. < 1254614362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed that is the answer < 1254614376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?? <-- hm? < 1254614385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1254614389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already answered ??. < 1254614391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254614408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I was just wondering if that is what you was going "??" about < 1254614409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1254614419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why you were responding about that topic when my quote was about the bad writing. < 1254614432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1254614447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ... I already know < 1254614450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1254614459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should I know you know < 1254614468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I quoted from the article about it? < 1254614486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't know if it was *all* that shoddy writing < 1254614489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just that part < 1254614493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are you sure that "tree" is not vandalism? < 1254614498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1254614503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a forest analoy < 1254614507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*analogy < 1254614514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See later in the article < 1254614517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it kinda leaves out the steps of reasoning < 1254614546 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254614925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I had possibly the worst or best idea ever, probably worst < 1254614963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also less hyperbolic, BUT.) < 1254615105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very elliptic summary < 1254615111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur hur < 1254615113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254615387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd tell it but nobody's asking :D < 1254615445 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1254615464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever played enigma < 1254615621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog < 1254615693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have. And I'm wondering too < 1254615698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc oklofog has < 1254615729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never played enigma, so clearly he cannot be wondering < 1254615731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d enigma < 1254615739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third-person naturally... < 1254615758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a true extension of enigma to 3d would allow arbitrary movement on the z-axis, but that's more boring than having gravity) < 1254615762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry but it sounds kind of "neither best or worst" < 1254615766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d, 3p, what's the difference < 1254615781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thus "also less hyperbolic" :P < 1254615789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be fun if pulled off right < 1254615792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be easy to get it wrong < 1254615796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1254615802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like possibly great < 1254615813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :camera movement would be a pain < 1254615821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not with Sufficiently Smart Coding(TM) < 1254615846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird yeah you might need to have special casing on some levels for where to move the camera < 1254615853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254615856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like many commercial games < 1254615890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it'd be best to have fps-style movement; turn around with mouse and a key for forwards < 1254615900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving your mouse up and repositioning constantly to go forwards would be a pain < 1254615902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254615905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1254615912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit hard to move as fast though < 1254615915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no keys for strafe left/right or go backwards; that'd be un-enigmalike) < 1254615922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... good point < 1254615933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it'd be a matter of experimentation to find out something good < 1254615948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on the other hand you could make levels that are more fit to the speed you can manage that way < 1254615954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there should be a jump key or whether that should be an item like in Enigma < 1254615961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, obviously the same type of levels wouldn't work < 1254615964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254615975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d chess pieces :D < 1254615982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah why not < 1254615988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they move up and down too < 1254615997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to hit them the right way to position them so you can jump on them as platforms to get higher < 1254616007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice < 1254616009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, making a sort of staircase < 1254616022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit hard to stand on a round chess piece < 1254616035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't round in enigma, they're square < 1254616044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the 3d thing would be harder, though < 1254616052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are on ubuntu right? Install the game "kiki the nanobot" quite a fun puzzle game in 3D < 1254616060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1254616075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nano bot; didn't find it because of that < 1254616085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with optional 1P/3P camera < 1254616092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd have a temptation to code this, but OpenGL is a bitch :( < 1254616103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1254616107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 3d meditation < 1254616111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be horrific < 1254616112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first levels are easy, gets very hard later on < 1254616123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch yeah < 1254616184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those huge levels like VI#100, The Aztec Temple? < 1254616193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those would be, like, city-sized :D < 1254616197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah never managed that < 1254616225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried the game I mentioned? < 1254616229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just installed now < 1254616231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254616239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... mouse-to-turn-and-key-to-go-forwards would be odd without first-person view < 1254616246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and first-person view isn't conductive to puzzles or whatnot) < 1254616259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hint: gravity exists, but where down is is up to you < 1254616262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in kiki) < 1254616266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254616277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about my comment? < 1254616278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh it fiddled with my gamma settings < 1254616279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254616291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it did? < 1254616293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254616296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah set it to 5 < 1254616301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't here < 1254616352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the camera makes me dizzy < 1254616361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, change the camera mode < 1254616364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254616365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgdown or pgup iirc < 1254616373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, third-person-always-face-robot is good < 1254616381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's this thing about gravity < 1254616393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1254616396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move onto walls :D < 1254616400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1254616406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things fall, you do if you jump < 1254616408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then jump :D < 1254616412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move wall < 1254616413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where down is depends on where your down is < 1254616414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mid-air < 1254616414 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do I find this thingy? < 1254616418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu packages < 1254616424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, package is "kiki" iirc < 1254616426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kiki.sourceforge.net/ < 1254616428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses arch < 1254616432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1254616436 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use kubuntu < 1254616437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in debian too < 1254616440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254616443 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiki - tool for python regular expression testing < 1254616451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1254616455 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://kiki.sourceforge.net/download/index.html says Mac and Windows version ._. < 1254616465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, um it is in ubuntu < 1254616466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourceforge.net/projects/kiki/ < 1254616468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have source < 1254616470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1254616471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway how do you like the game? < 1254616476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't got the first level right < 1254616478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet < 1254616479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right < 1254616489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quite trivial first one < 1254616503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1254616518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact the first few levels are just about learning concepts of the game < 1254616543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is help available somewhere < 1254616545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each level < 1254616548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the menu iirc < 1254616610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often looks like kiki is levitating above the floor. < 1254616619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? haven't noticed < 1254616702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth do you do #3, I've moved the block, what do I shoot < 1254616717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sec < 1254616727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop is rebooting atm < 1254616734 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, here we go < 1254616748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it froze < 1254616749 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION toys around with sources.list < 1254616753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it did? < 1254616756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254616761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never had that problem < 1254616768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkill zzzap < 1254616788 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, yeah, it changes the gamma when it's the active window... :\ < 1254616809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change gamma in settings < 1254616811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks best at default < 1254616821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok move the block one square off < 1254616825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it froze again < 1254616831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crappily-written. < 1254616842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then up on that block turn around so you face the switch that was hidden < 1254616845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot it < 1254616849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i shot it < 1254616887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it never froze for me < 1254616891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame your drivers < 1254616894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI wasn't it? < 1254616899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open source ATI even < 1254616930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i doubt it's that < 1254616938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never froze = i never ran into that code path < 1254616963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the controls are so confusing :( < 1254616965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the gamma changing I see now < 1254616980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pitty it messes up that I have different gamma set for blue < 1254616996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how are the controls confusing? work fine for me < 1254617037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot figure out #4 :( < 1254617084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, push around the generator and the gear < 1254617087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they line up < 1254617090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the help < 1254617099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the help doesn't tell me that. < 1254617103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and generator needs to be connected to the gird < 1254617116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the they need to be connected to the engine of course < 1254617120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty obvious < 1254617124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1254617125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to anyone with half a brain < 1254617130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you too < 1254617161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to activate the exit, feed it with electricity: connect the generator with the motor" < 1254617162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254617165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it didn't say < 1254617187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cogs are together with the motor but it isn't doing anything, anyway < 1254617215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are the generator is on the gird bit and turning? < 1254617222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the generator is unmovabel < 1254617224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unmovable < 1254617234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um that is the engine that is < 1254617238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle < 1254617241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't move it. < 1254617242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generator is one of the other parts < 1254617246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254617249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the blocks? < 1254617260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I have to connect all of those? < 1254617284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice busywork. yay, i just pushed one into a corner and now I can't move it < 1254617334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the blocks, there is gears and gears with something below < 1254617334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets see the movements...left, forward, left, forward, left, left, backwards, jump forwards... < 1254617334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are now on the floor < 1254617343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left, left, shift + fwd, shift + fwd < 1254617347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left < 1254617356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwd, right, fwd < 1254617362 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, elevate.. < 1254617366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on for every other block? < 1254617367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, shift+fwd < 1254617377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fwd < 1254617380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fwd < 1254617384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fwd < 1254617385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fwd < 1254617400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the other gears should be just behind you? < 1254617401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254617405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I miscounted < 1254617415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, following your instructions "you are now on the floor" is false :P < 1254617429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, must have made a mistake, worked for me though < 1254617446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, true/false: you have to put all the blocks on the dots < 1254617447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I probably mixed up left and right < 1254617449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one by one < 1254617453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, false < 1254617457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit is < 1254617458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1254617463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dots on the floor are the gird < 1254617467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1254617471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the blocks aren't on it < 1254617475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the engine needs to be next to the gear on it < 1254617492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I'll try it later when I'm not so confused, I think :P < 1254617498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1254617507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the generator must be next to the gear AND on those dots < 1254617542 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254617548 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm starting to get #4 < 1254617551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec for screenshot < 1254617567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the turning is a bitch < 1254617575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, #4 is the one i was on < 1254617579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case understanding the thing is a bitch < 1254617588 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254617659 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254617666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff happened when you shot the yellow stuff < 1254617673 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't notice at first < 1254617675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm don't you mean #3 < 1254617681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1254617682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254617683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254617702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://omploader.org/vMmg0YQ < 1254617704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that helpful? < 1254617725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254617725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254617739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, half a brain comment applies I think < 1254617753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an asshole < 1254617767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, howcome yours has colours. < 1254617780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? doesn't your? all levels have colours here < 1254617790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes the blue is from "activating" < 1254617791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level is grey here, with teal as the colour of the cogs < 1254617794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254617796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess cause it's on :P < 1254617815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as least one level had ever-shifting colour < 1254617851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if an item is against a wall < 1254617892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay onto elevate < 1254617906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another damn generator x_x < 1254617910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from the start or not? < 1254617910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sometimes you can drop it < 1254617911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from another direction < 1254617917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, easy now < 1254617921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop? < 1254617929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also easy now why < 1254617932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand < 1254617945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shoot the yellow rotating things < 1254617949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are bombs < 1254617967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a generator :P < 1254617974 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the next one isn't a generator level :P < 1254617975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now move up onto the ceiling and move them < 1254617994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you mean throw? well that is the "drop" stuff < 1254617996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a pain < 1254618005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say anything < 1254618006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me several minutes to figure it out < 1254618014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't grasped that one yet anyway < 1254618022 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, Throw is it < 1254618023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I fail to remember how. < 1254618024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i aligned the fucking cogs wrong < 1254618024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh < 1254618033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to move them individually < 1254618041 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to have them align="right", you know < 1254618042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is easy < 1254618057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold a mouse button and move the mouse < 1254618057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1254618059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wtf < 1254618063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, etc is one off from wtf < 1254618070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh camera movement < 1254618074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? I use the arrow keys? < 1254618074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes weird i you're in first-person < 1254618075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move < 1254618090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow why is it going all slow now < 1254618105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggy game :| < 1254618113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not for me < 1254618116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254618120 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, for the rop thingy.. Do I have to use anything except space, ctrl or shift? < 1254618124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rop? < 1254618128 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop* < 1254618151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you need the arrow keys too. But never space. If it is still "throw" < 1254618159 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still throw. < 1254618168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ctrl, shift and arrow keys < 1254618168 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, the arrow keys, I forgot those :P < 1254618178 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant is, there's no special key I've missed? < 1254618178 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1254618181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is shoot < 1254618182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, the key is that thing on the wall < 1254618190 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1254618193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for me < 1254618195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not throw < 1254618199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving those blocks so you can drop < 1254618202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "throw" is a level < 1254618208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a pain < 1254618209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254618298 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spins around in a 1x1x1 box in first-person view < 1254618345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, basically you have to move the two blocks next to the fixed one, then use that to stand on the side of another and drop it in some unexpected direction. < 1254618373 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there was a help thingy < 1254618378 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that :P < 1254618421 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254618525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking screenshots < 1254618543 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather think about it than just looking up the solution < 1254618726 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold... < 1254618749 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254618795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254618799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254618805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong keyboard < 1254618897 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, for now I'm stuck on Jump... interesting game, though < 1254618899 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to sleep < 1254618901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1254618905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254618921 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254618925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshots for ehird on throw in the pipeline < 1254618950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a total of eight < 1254618967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1254618972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1254618980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am royalty and I demand screenshots! :P < 1254618983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the first tricky level < 1254618999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the first 4 are dead easy < 1254619011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on elevate < 1254619017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's after 4, I think < 1254619030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the first *five* are dead easy < 1254619141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMmg0ZQ http://omploader.org/vMmg0Zg http://omploader.org/vMmg0Zw http://omploader.org/vMmg0aA http://omploader.org/vMmg0aQ http://omploader.org/vMmg0ag http://omploader.org/vMmg0aw < 1254619155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I'm not going to help more than I did with elevate < 1254619189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw the thing in the lower left corner? see it? < 1254619193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254619203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the thing in parens a par time, btw? < 1254619205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're so low. < 1254619211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes similar < 1254619217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always get minus numbers. < 1254619220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first is number of moves < 1254619232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not "par" but "almost best" < 1254619246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I got a few at 0, two at plus, and rest at minus < 1254619273 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254619361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklo < 1254619362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254619364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1254619855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look at those pics if you need it. Since I know by now you have less than half a brain and that level requires at least 78% brain + a long attention span. < 1254619857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1254619905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you trying to be an asshole with no provocation or have you had a brain tumor < 1254620294 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254621149 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254621473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi coppro < 1254621492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254621702 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254621816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did You Know... < 1254621823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that GNOME used to use Midnight Commander as its file browser? < 1254621840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X] Show tips at random times < 1254621841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ Previous ] [ Next ] [ Close ] < 1254621906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you ever get DS working on 95? Also, I'm now interested in Dwarf Fortress, and wonder if that works < 1254621935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) Never got it re-downloaded. (b) Doesn't that require POSIX? < 1254621964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1254621970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Requires Windows 98+", but I'll give it a go. < 1254621999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 OSE1 is basically 98 sans the IE stuff, so the number of things requiring 98 instead is stupid. < 1254622014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like multiple-choice questions? (a) No, they are overdone (b) No, the right option is usually missing (c) No, they are all based on the questioner's prejudices anyhow < 1254622016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll install 98lite (Windows 98 installer that rips out IE and adds the 95 file manager). < 1254622024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: d < 1254622069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be "all of the above", i assume < 1254622097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without IE, how do you install a better browser? < 1254622134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floppy disk, CD-ROM or the command-line "ftp". < 1254622155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pigeons < 1254622170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the nice thing is that you can even delete mshtml.dll at the cost of not being able to open .chm help files; your system will be totally without any of IE's "OS-integrated" (cough cough) components. < 1254622177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's more than just mshtml.dll iirc, but whatever. < 1254622217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an option on the many-floppy installer; by the CD installer (OSR1) it was required. I believe you can upgrade from the original floppy version to OSR1 to bypass that. < 1254622245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or use IEradicator from the people who brought you 98. < 1254622247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254622249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98lite < 1254622299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION extracts Dwarf Fortress to c:\dwarves, since the URL is /dwarves/. < 1254622320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get my Win98 iso onto my laptop at some point < 1254622320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I assume this game is closed source? < 1254622326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooo! < 1254622330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn to the light! Pirate 95! < 1254622350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe so, although I saw something involving the graphics parts being opened up for SDL < 1254622363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because it tries to run KERNEL32.DLL:IsDebuggerPresent. < 1254622381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRM: breaking your games on older OSs since You Are Retarded, It Doesn't Fucking Stop Piracy AD. :P < 1254622405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would Windows get to know if a debugger is present? < 1254622416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1254622432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think because you have to tell the kernel to step the program, or something. < 1254622441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, you have to emulate all of Windows which is, uhh, "fun". < 1254622488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :query: how do you debug DRM software? < 1254622509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly; that's why they break so much shit. < 1254622534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the whole point is to complain when you detect a debugger < 1254622670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile without #define DRM ? < 1254622680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging the drm < 1254622681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he means < 1254622685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they sell products for it nowadays) < 1254622761 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254622761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if a DRM product is based on disallowing debugging, and you sell a product to bypass that, aren't you breaking some law? >:) < 1254622790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In the United Stupids of America, I believe you would be < 1254622823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :United Stupids of America? I do believe your intellect surpasses that of those who say Micro$haft! < 1254624057 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IsDebuggerPresent sounds like useful API for malware. But not as good as CreateRemoteThread. < 1254624145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually work? < 1254624154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, malware uses it IIRC < 1254624158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can bypass it, obviously < 1254624220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do it with a disassembler, but the lazy. < 1254624251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think it's IsDebugEnabled. < 1254624265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1254624270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me < 1254624272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed isdebuggerenabled < 1254624277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google said did you mean isdebugenabled < 1254624279 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason CreateRemoteThread is useful in malware is that it can be used to inject threads which lock files or do anti-deinstallation tricks into necressary programs. < 1254624292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, creates a thread in another program? < 1254624304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading an interview with Matt Knox about writing Windows malware; very interesting. < 1254624306 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Create thread in another process. < 1254624311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used that, and had no actual executable. < 1254624331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Competing malware tries to remove it, and they have to hide from anti-malware programs while removing other malware.) < 1254624366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, apparently VS2005 adds IsDebuggerPresent. < 1254624419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of the runtime, it seems. < 1254624424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an unlinker, I wonder? < 1254624432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose not. < 1254624454 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux kernel does not support anything like CreateRemoteThread. All created threads are local to process that created them. < 1254624459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know; so? < 1254624468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the revelation there "Linux is stabler than Windows"? :P < 1254624486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, VC2005 CRT has IsDebuggerPresent. Sigh. < 1254624499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to erase it by first finding where it is with OllyDbg. < 1254624558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate single-executable-with-no-installer programs; where am I supposed to put that? I guess in c:\foo\foo.exe, but still, what a waste of a folder! < 1254624589 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux btw has way to discover if process is being ptraced (the signal anomalies and from /proc//status). < 1254624677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, OllyDbg can't even start the executable due to the linker error. < 1254624700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up. < 1254624758 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML in single kernel address space mode probably can't be discovered by either. It has its own /proc//status, and it the signal behaviour shouldn't have anomalies. < 1254624966 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No flag to link it anyway (ld has such flag, executable will crash if it calls undefined function). < 1254625122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently if you just s/IsDebuggePresent/GetCurrentProcess/ you can run things :D < 1254625154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordPad refuses to open .exes, hmph. < 1254625167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XVI32, here I come./ < 1254625169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*come. < 1254625257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go; it's just text. Tap tap tap. < 1254625267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't want to use WordPad anyway, since text mode on Windows changes stuff < 1254625270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GetCurrentProcess has the same number of letters and I guess has no arguments too.) < 1254625272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: true. < 1254625313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it wants USER32.DLL:TrackMouseEvent < 1254625316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you sure you spelled IsDebuggePresent correctly? < 1254625325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IsDebuggerPresent, sorry. :P < 1254625334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That changes the length, though < 1254625343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, people said it works. < 1254625345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, an article about it and Windows 95. < 1254625349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TrackMouseEvent) < 1254625387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IsDebuggerPresent < 1254625389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GetCurrentProcess < 1254625393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: same letters < 1254625401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1254625439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, IE3 provides TrackMouseEvent. < 1254625468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a quick hack implementation for some uses of it; does anyone know if you can tell a Windows process to get a function in a DLL from another? < 1254625471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose so... < 1254625647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba to find a win32 api function with TrackMouseEvent's letters < 1254625650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Street View has a VERY thick arrow pointing in the direction I want to go < 1254625675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: link me to a DS that actually works this time plz < 1254625678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, again < 1254625703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the links on http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/ds/ds_more.php?id=552_0_16_0_C work? < 1254625713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard to find out which ones do! :P < 1254625716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the pcworld one work < 1254625789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it < 1254625809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's giving me a ds.zip < 1254625828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes Seamonkey crash. < 1254625836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct link? < 1254625842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably tinyurl'd... < 1254625845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No copypaste ;P < 1254625846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1254625913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downloads.pcworld.com/pub/new/fun_and_games/simulation/ds.zip = http://bit.ly/Ft26m < 1254625951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ft26m: transgender, female to twenty-six males < 1254625962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254626028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This arrow on Google Street View is hilarious < 1254626035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1254626044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, don't feel like giving away where I live < 1254626046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be transcloning < 1254626056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 Orchard Terrace, Hexham, England < 1254626059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAPE ME, PEDOPHILES! < 1254626064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can catch me; we're moving. < 1254626081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, I can screenshot and omit sensitive details < 1254626084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that DS has a file \cdtastic < 1254626107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you actually think posting your address on the internet would have consequences < 1254626120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend's address is also on there < 1254626133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ooh, *two* people to rape! < 1254626143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends how much he pisses someone off, don't you think? < 1254626143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sneaky peer, always jumping into other people's networks. < 1254626147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He might disconnect you, you know. < 1254626150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254626152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*people's messages < 1254626163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peer, du lyver < 1254626173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks InstallBlast. Linked to missing export WININET.DLL:InternetAutodial. < 1254626175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blast! < 1254626203 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that function seem little "hinky"? < 1254626217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Windows; the function names aren't going to make sense. < 1254626253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Docking Station *is* kinda internet-based; there's not much more it could spy on using weird functions, since it has all my game data and thus a permanent net connection while it's running. < 1254626263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a function to autodial so that you can win an internet < 1254626281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my wininet is circa-1996 and has 4 as the major version; it is probably from the IE 4 I installed. < 1254626298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...?! < 1254626300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, "Zipped". < 1254626304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can skip the installer. < 1254626323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254626325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1254626335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds\zipped\DS.zip is the root zip. < 1254626362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although with a different directory in the zip, and without the zip itself. < 1254626363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1254626364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aww. < 1254626385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/bG9dd.png < 1254626399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, waw < 1254626399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that amusing < 1254626409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, jesus, you use Luna? < 1254626411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eeeeeeeeeeeyes < 1254626429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol@the 98lite google :-P) < 1254626445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always compulsively blank my google search fields after use < 1254626447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me < 1254626456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey me too < 1254626459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254626467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a firefox extension that automatically does it, but I don't use firefox at all < 1254626479 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't "Hot Dog Stand". :-> < 1254626496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I do is press del at the end of lines, a lot, just because I'm afraid there's a redundant space there < 1254626510 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: get an editor that can highlight trailing space < 1254626519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And assign it to every text field in the system? < 1254626524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Splendidly functional idea, coppro! < 1254626528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes there was a browser with the awesomeness of firefox without the suckiness < 1254626535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox has awesomeness? < 1254626545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the extensions written for it < 1254626564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are all the files in the DS installer meant to be bzipped? < 1254626568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, in its directory < 1254626573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do not know < 1254626578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the #1 suckiness is the complete inability to look good in KDE < 1254626581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: most of them suck, the ones that don't are just bugixes to make firefox suck less :P < 1254626586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does yours? < 1254626592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: feature < 1254626599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254626601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: disagree! < 1254626601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean, from a non-pc world source presumably < 1254626605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in that order < 1254626629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's been a very long time since I touched DS, and even longer since I last installed it < 1254626633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're wrong! also, a child molester. in fact, all KDE users are child molesters: they cause me great life-long emotional trauma, and I am a child. < 1254626638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE! < 1254626656 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, a Moment of Science. < 1254626663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, they should do that. < 1254626673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1254626694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought it was a pun on a moment of silence < 1254626699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1254626699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1254626701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254626706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am happy < 1254626718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Street View doesn't have an image, and I can't move past this turnstile or whatever it's called without it < 1254626718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls learning that in spanish, molestar means just "disturb" or "bother". on the other hand, embarazada means pregnant. < 1254626756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't use street view < 1254626756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's just taking me in a circle that a car would follow, I'll ignore it < 1254626767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Ig Nobel prize ceremony, every now and then they have a Nobel laureate come out and announce a Moment of Science. Everyone shuts up and then some guys come on and do some random wordless demonstration, then leave. < 1254626784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. I googled and found http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/. < 1254626817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the Ig Nobels on YouTube? < 1254626828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1254626888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254626890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internetautodial < 1254626896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"causes the modem to automatically dial the default internet connection" < 1254626896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254626902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't be needing that... < 1254626927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah, it's in IE4 or later; guess my uninstall wiped its DLLs. sigh... < 1254626966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know a wininet function with as many letters as InternetAutodial, taking a DWORD and an HWND and always returning true? < 1254626968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought not. :P < 1254626993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: make one? < 1254627007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I can't exactly add my own functions to WinInet.dll. < 1254627010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Windows have some equivalent of LD_PRELOAD? :D < 1254627013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, I don't have the source. < 1254627022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Functions are referenced in the header thing by the DLL they're in. < 1254627029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if they are in the actual code. < 1254627050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could edit the DLL name in the header, I guess. < 1254627053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make my own. < 1254627142 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the Truly Broken DLL Model < 1254627159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it works fine unless you have the wrong versions of stuff, but that will break anyway. < 1254627320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can't install IE4, make a copy of the DLL, and uninstall? < 1254627380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed IE 4 earlier but wiped it totally. < 1254627395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could extract it from a cab, but ffff. < 1254627445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: any model where all the lbraries are shipped with every application is, in my opinion, Truly Broken < 1254627491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. That's good, because Windows doesn't do that. < 1254627503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1254627544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. Incidentally, Plan 9 does that. http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ Maybe you shouldn't be so dismissive. < 1254627615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows applications ship all the non-system DLLs they use and store them independently. It's like static linking, except allows them to update individual libraries without having to update the whole thing < 1254627633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untrue, e.g. Gecko installs separately at least with my SeaMonkey. < 1254627649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is commonly done because it works better in practice; DLL hell nowadays is completely unheard of. < 1254627657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ for why the general idea is pretty good. < 1254627808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, maybe I'm just spoiled by the way Linux distros have their own libraries but that are standard to every program on the system < 1254627888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ link this a http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ few more times because http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ you don't seem to have read it. Dynamic linking breaks more than it solves. < 1254627986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254628004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roflmao. < 1254628015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are all sorts of good reasons to use static linking, but that doesn't make dynamic linking inherently wrong < 1254628036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was. < 1254628041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254628042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it breaks more than it solves, which is universally true in practice. < 1254628059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least IME, and the experience of several othes. < 1254628062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*others < 1254628083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could design a way to combine the benefits of static and dynamic libraries < 1254628090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the memory/disk argument is bunk when you look at how many bloated libraries today's applications use... with static linking of a less bloated library set, applications would be tiny!) < 1254628114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, statically link programs, but design a way by which memory could be shared and oh god you're completely right about that < 1254628144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right enough to interrupt your sentence! < 1254628145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254628189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, if the OS could detect shared functions, and put them in the same segment. < 1254628220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it doesn't load multiple instances of the exact same function into memory < 1254628291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only helpful on embedded devices, and they don't really have such infrastructure... one, what if the application patches the function? Two, yeah, that's save maybe a few megabytes, tops, on any system sane enough to use such a scheme and avoid dynamic libraries (i.e., almost certainly having lightweight libraries). < 1254628305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it's just added complexity that could break things, which is almost never a good thing to add. < 1254628313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, that'd be acceptable. < 1254628333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was thinking to use a hash so that if the function is patched, it isn't merged. I know it isn't fallible, stop arguing with my brilliant ideas! < 1254628340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is fallible < 1254628359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could patch it after it's merged. < 1254628371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if it's delayed, swapping that pointer on the application is reaaaaaaally going to confuse it.) < 1254628379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because that would affect the other running function. < 1254628396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so it'll crash and burn. < 1254628404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is bad. < 1254628446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254628455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just not merging the function with other running instances sounds saner < 1254628470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we have that solution and it's called static linking :-P < 1254628490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-on-write < 1254628493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit it isn't the height of elegance or anything, but then neither is the idea of libraries and operating systems and and and. < 1254628508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Would involve changing the pointer to the function as the application runs. < 1254628509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how is that applicable? < 1254628520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words... CRASH! < 1254628533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, it stored the old function pointer somewhere. Oops, your crazy code-patching failed. etc. < 1254628539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i thought that was done with virtual memory < 1254628549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm. < 1254628566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still uses up address space, although admittedly that's a *lot* less scarce on 64-bit architectures. < 1254628578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it would require some serious magic and couldn't be done simply by the OS at runtime < 1254628591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so they're shared _unless_ one of the processes changes it < 1254628591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? give each application its own pointer to the function < 1254628597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1254628600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointing to the same real memory < 1254628602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1254628604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual memory < 1254628607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointing to the same physical < 1254628611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it changes it, remap the virtual memory < 1254628612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I was thinking pre-runtime changed functions < 1254628613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to point to a copied version < 1254628617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modify it < 1254628619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1254628635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, when a program links in a replacement function < 1254628639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying code should be banned anyways < 1254628655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not self-modifying code, it's fix-this-fucking-broken-library-code code. < 1254628661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you are evil and hate fun. < 1254628664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-modifying code is beautiful. < 1254628673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. But it's worth banning < 1254628688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1254628693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I like self-modifying code in principle. It just makes things so much more complicated :( < 1254628696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is all a bunch of code doing a scary operation while code is running to save a few megs. < 1254628701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't lisp or scheme or somesuch supposed to be good at self-modifying? < 1254628702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to hell with function-sharing. < 1254628706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing broken library code is usually done at compile time < 1254628711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They can't do that per se. Assembly is the best. < 1254628723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Lisp/Scheme you can't even get a function's source reliably, because they can be compiled. < 1254628731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use macros, but that's compile-time, not self-modifying. < 1254628739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language was I vaguely thinking of? < 1254628746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can use (eval) on code trees, but that's just because the homoiconicity helps. < 1254628749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Lisp, just misunderstanding it < 1254628753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tunes? Even though that's not a language? < 1254628756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that in another language with strings, but it's more of a pain to manipulate the code. < 1254628762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, TUNES is beautiful < 1254628767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, they host our logs < 1254628770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp can seem self-modifying because of the dynamic scoping < 1254628780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, reflective self-modifying high-level kernel-less OS! yessssssssssssssss < 1254628795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUNES isn't nearly anywhere close to having actual functionality, is it? < 1254628795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they hadn't been dead for, like, over a decade. < 1254628799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haven't < 1254628815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not a single line of code, but they left behind much useful material. They are still, officially, going. < 1254628825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some things happened recently; maybe it'll start crawling again. < 1254628829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it spun off a lot of projects. < 1254628838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some languages and stuff, Slate for instance. < 1254628840 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has nearly started dreaming of LLV < 1254628842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LLVM < 1254628843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not that many, but still. < 1254629287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1254629301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1254629312 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thought on my Agora defense? < 1254629328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gmail.com < 1254629461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, it sounds more desparate than something legally defensible, but then again, I'm not paying much attention < 1254629546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a chewbacca defense? :D < 1254629587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are ehird and Murphy trying to exile ais523? < 1254629609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of a contract scam < 1254629629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an evil scam < 1254629658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mousetrapping, and then destroying the assets of all those who try to stop it < 1254629667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he shows no remorse for it < 1254629691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't the assets be brought back via proposal? < 1254629696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exile would be for three months; I'd have preferred something in between a few rests and a three month exile, but the current punishment system doesn't offer that < 1254629698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what, exactly, was the mousetrap? < 1254629704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the archives < 1254629711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doesn't matter, it is still a bad thing to do; and what coppro said < 1254629716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too complicated to explain < 1254629742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've an idea < 1254629789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's possible < 1254629802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you really've an idea < 1254629808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254629828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I get sudo access back on Normish? < 1254629850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think you could contract "have" when it wasn't used as an auxiliary verb < 1254630343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254630566 0 :Ann_Apolis!n=chatzill@host86-176-76-233.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254631171 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254631796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ann_Apolis < 1254631797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who be you < 1254631813 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way back in the years of 2007 < 1254631824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm your name is vaguely familiar < 1254631826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i saw you in some logs < 1254631827 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i used to be called "unrelated_to_qaz" < 1254631831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhh < 1254631833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you! hi < 1254631834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember you < 1254631843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was camel-cased, though, not underscored < 1254631843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome back < 1254631844 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember you, too < 1254631851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was i a dick :) < 1254631851 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i missed? < 1254631859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, lots :P < 1254631862 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254631882 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summarise it, i suppose. < 1254631882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang-wise, probably the most significant happening has been Feather, which is still vaporware but has permanently changed the mind of anyone who has ever had it explained < 1254631893 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the better? < 1254631895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is the usual constant inflow of crap with some minor gems < 1254631896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Feather? < 1254631897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ann_Apolis: for the more insane < 1254631903 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds ace < 1254631904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TURN BACK BEFORE DARKNESS ENVELOPS YOU!! < 1254631917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why isn't it on the Wiki? < 1254631920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ann_Apolis: nobody understands it, but ais523 not-not-understands it the most, so ask him the next time he's on < 1254631929 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, i shall < 1254631931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it hasn't been defined yet, it's merely a set of brain-damaging constraints < 1254631935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he's working on defining it < 1254631943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ann_Apolis: (ais523 being its creator) < 1254631952 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1254631962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ann_Apolis: basically, it resolves on the interpreter being an editable part of the program, except it applies retroactively < 1254631965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpreter is written in feather < 1254631974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, when you modify it, the interpreter used to modify it is reinterpreted with the new one < 1254631974 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254631975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one's < 1254631977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one's one < 1254631979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on, to infinity < 1254631982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how you perform operations < 1254631983 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see how it would get complicated < 1254631997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the constraints are simple enough; it's just incredibly hard to reason about < 1254632172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ann_Apolis: I assume you know about http://esolangs.org/ < 1254632202 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki, you mean? < 1254632207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254632234 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1254632450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers installing beos in a vm < 1254632851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to try OS/2 Warp or whatever it's called < 1254632884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warp is a version of OS/2. < 1254632897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254632919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here you go: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3497344/OS_2_Warp_4_(english_version) < 1254632938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even has 9 seeders. < 1254632940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a vague feeling that it's disturbing that ehird knows more about computer history than he does, since he was around for more of it than ehird < 1254632958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like reading about this stuff. < 1254632985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here's a screenshot: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Os2W4.png < 1254632988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly looks strange. < 1254633024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you told me that that was the next version of DSL, I would believe you, except for the OS/2 indications < 1254633027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DOS window < 1254633039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn Small Linux is Damn Ugly. :P < 1254633077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just use the stuff at http://www.warpdoctor.org/downloads.html instead of a torrent? < 1254633127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no? < 1254633133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just the installer program diskettes. < 1254633138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 Warp is still under copyright. < 1254633152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with a torrent anyway? Just a click to download and open it. < 1254633172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow < 1254633181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 seeders; surely not. < 1254633189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your ISP shapes torrent traffic. < 1254633206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, if for some reason, some watchdog thingy were to be using it to see who's pirating.. < 1254633221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're paranoid. < 1254633227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watching OS/2 Warp? < 1254633230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really*? < 1254633253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britney Spears mp3s on LimeWire yes, old, obscure OS torrents no. < 1254633292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Say that warpdoctor page offered a download of the full thing; "some watchdog thingy" could just as easily demand their HTTP logs. < 1254633315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, true < 1254633351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, downloading OS/2 Warp is about as safe as crossing a road in a ghost town without looking left and right. :P < 1254633376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, I really really need to eat and go to sleep now. My dad's going to be home tonight, and being up too late is a bad idea < 1254633396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what BeOS version to get < 1254633439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aresluna.org/attached/pics/usability/articles/biurkonaekranie/beos5.big.png < 1254633443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest, then; R5. < 1254633630 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/FROw0.jpg < 1254633651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a rich man < 1254633656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a computer machine that cats < 1254633658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also money < 1254633667 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://img.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1234340335056.jpg ) < 1254633674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aware < 1254633696 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to think of a good caption < 1254633736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pictured: secret area of compaq hax, also money." < 1254633743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so bad it's good it's bad it's good. < 1254633803 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not too sure about producing a glare effect < 1254633855 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run it through a few gaussian blurs < 1254633865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254633887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I know what a Gaussian blur.. although you might be questioning how it can actually help < 1254633915 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you accidentally what < 1254634014 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this, Sgeo < 1254634037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to find out where the context of the line came from. < 1254634278 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009082707]" < 1254634359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254634499 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried Haiku? < 1254634644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaame < 1254634647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the real thing < 1254634689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find a beos 5 pro download :( < 1254634746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254634751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems most things only depend on r4(.5) < 1254634773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from some versions with r5 fixes < 1254634785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, it seems that as far as stability goes, r4 > r4.5 > r5 < 1254634788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wil hunt for r4.5 < 1254634805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will < 1254634853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3280563/BeOS_4.5 < 1254634856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, is like a magic < 1254634863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1254634864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 seeders < 1254634867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, let's see < 1254634894 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem. いいえけど/ほんとういいだ/ってらしい < 1254634915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har har < 1254634918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a haiku < 1254634919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har har. < 1254634928 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, but it's really great, I've heard." ... except more awkward < 1254634956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one peer has 98% < 1254634959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope the others have the rest < 1254635014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 peers < 1254635017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50-100KiB/s < 1254635018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1254635021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254635024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have 98%, oh god :( < 1254635037 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I know there's no source, but surely you can find an ISO elsewhere on the web. http maybe. < 1254635078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a few hundred megs < 1254635142 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I use HTTP for everything. < 1254635151 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't judge me :o < 1254635160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1254635164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1254635195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do challenge you to find a BeOS r4.5 ISO via HTTP; I contend it is impossible < 1254635218 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people tend to have things on hosting sites. the least endpoint of distribution of things, as it were < 1254635227 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a la least fixpoint) < 1254635230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my challenge stands < 1254635240 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't think I'll be able to < 1254635262 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe usenet < 1254635262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the google thingy to search for one file extension, btw < 1254635265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting good speeds here, although it's still unlikely I < 1254635273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/'ll get all 100% since it's 98%/ < 1254635283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: usenet has everything, costs money, and maxes out your connection < 1254635289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the binary search engines are very good quality < 1254635293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like http at all < 1254635311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newzleech.com/?group=&minage=&age=&min=min&max=max&q=beos&m=search&adv= < 1254635311 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was saying that it wasn't http, but it is yet another place it is likely to be < 1254635313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why'm I surprised < 1254635321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not surprised < 1254635334 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said. < 1254635337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: yes, but instead of paying $15/mo for usenet I could buy BeOS. < 1254635365 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite true. how much is BeOS nowadays, dead-ish as it is? < 1254635555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/BeOS-4-5-with-Bible/dp/B00002S7JC < 1254635558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$74.99 "used". < 1254635569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 4.5; 5 is the latest version but seems to suck more. < 1254635591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get 5 personal edition, installs to a file on a windows or mac partition and boots from them, for free, but fuck that shit < 1254635602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 5.1 is the leaked, buggy, unreleased beta; easy to pirate < 1254635610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that buggy I guess, still < 1254635614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but still < 1254635657 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if 2% can be added from there? :) < 1254635665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254635670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254635680 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that would be the ultimate reverse engineering feat. perhaps. < 1254635688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"see if 2%"? < 1254635691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about, dude < 1254635717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1254635782 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filling in the 2% you'd miss in the 4.5 torrent < 1254635808 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, where can I find a 'ridiculous idea' sticker < 1254635809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to produce... 4.59? < 1254635818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, miss < 1254635829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you're talking about at all, you're being incomprehensible < 1254635840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254635841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98% < 1254635846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, you could have mentioned < 1254635854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any luck, the 2% will be useless stuff < 1254635860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some system components I don't need < 1254635862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be at the end < 1254635875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least in a way that doesn't damage anything, just zeroes out some useless install files < 1254635900 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have this knack for subtracting numbers like '2' in my head. my teachers say I'm a mathematical prodigy < 1254635940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 98% figure was way up there and out of context, and i didn't really pay attention to the exact number < 1254635942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with you < 1254635970 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1254635981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254636000 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if u payme enough i will let u into my sekrit area of arithemetics < 1254636011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254636283 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I should be studying for my bio test < 1254636329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should do it while less deranged < 1254636479 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including such exciting flash cards as: Sulfhydryl atoms and function -> -SH, thiols. Forms molecule fastener (R-S-S-R and 2H+), strong disulfide bond < 1254636675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that nt 4 workstation is considerd excellent; to pirate^Winvestigate later < 1254636891 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d909a2@gateway/web/freenode/x-jjpmzvvtlyclotnt JOIN :#esoteric < 1254639281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98.59% < 1254639282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it stops < 1254640061 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254640230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! Do you anyone on here, today? < 1254640290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254640297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! < 1254640304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning, however: I am a robot. Beep. < 1254640318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was late. But, not in your timezone? Or maybe in your timezone too. < 1254640332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, it's OK. < 1254640334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, early: 7:12 AM. < 1254640337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beep. < 1254640350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You know I'm a robot because I say "Beep." after everything. Beep.) < 1254640357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the time! I just sent a CTRL+A TIME message to you isn't it on the screen? < 1254640366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in the server tab; but I didn't notice. < 1254640376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:12] --- Received a CTCP TIME from zzo38 < 1254640390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. OK < 1254640414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this 98.59% downloaded ISO will work properly, by the way? Not that you'd know, but random people on the internet are as good a source as any. < 1254640415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also type TIME for the server time, and /TIME for my time. < 1254640428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ISO is that? < 1254640451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeOS 4.5, from a source of questionable legality. Not like it's sold new any more, though. < 1254640457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try it in a virtual machine. < 1254640458 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean if it will work even with only 98.59% or if it will work at 100% < 1254640473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try it and see if it work. < 1254640474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 98.59% of it was available in the swarm of the BitTorrent file. < 1254640478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm going to. < 1254640489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need a boot floppy first, though. < 1254640496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about the ISO file-format to understand whether or not 98.59% is good enough < 1254640534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hoping that the missing parts are in some random system component that I don't need. < 1254640552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, the boot floppy is an .exe that writes it to disk. I'll just use my Windows 95 virtual machine. < 1254640569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is a incomplete ISO loadable? < 1254640603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1254640611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's a checksum... in which case, no. < 1254640630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the problem is repairable, then you could try to fix it. < 1254640649 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had a corrupt ISO load before < 1254640654 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also had one fail to load < 1254640670 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it will depend on where the missing bits are < 1254640709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh, VirtualBox seems to fail at floppise. < 1254640711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*floppies < 1254640814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it needs a filesystem there already. < 1254640816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfs.msdos away... < 1254640826 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biiiiittorrent < 1254640835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1254640875 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is amazing < 1254640891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) Not when the swarm only has 98.59% of a file. (b) It's slow and amazing. < 1254640923 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98.59% is fine for music or video < 1254640938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) Not for an OS. (b) Not always. < 1254641003 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rsync the rest < 1254641012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From... < 1254641075 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254641085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1254641229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ALL SEE BUCKO < 1254641234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand you fully. < 1254641245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say the same to you. < 1254641257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I was writing to myself. < 1254641377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up, elects to use the Windows 95 install CD to boot BeOS 4.5's < 1254641460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a game which was mostly the same as Wheel of Fortune, which rules would you adjust? < 1254641497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the prizes would be negated, and so everyone would scramble to lose. < 1254641517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: This applies to any game with cash prizes. For instance: why not try the debt lottery?) < 1254641522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. < 1254641533 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my ideas for different rules would be a bit different. < 1254641536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Get all your friends to buy tickets too, or you have more of a chance of losing!) < 1254641576 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One rule I would change, is, BANKRUPT would not lose all your points in the current round, but instead only the points you earned on the current turn and 50 additional points lost. < 1254641602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, you would be allowed to pass at any time after you spin on your turn, so you don't have to spin more than once if you don't want to. < 1254641676 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(About negating prizes to any game with cash prizes, I have actually thought about making a mahjong variant that works like this, too) < 1254641717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The variant you could pull off in reality is "the loser wins the money". < 1254641727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way people would actually play... < 1254641812 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, some of my ideas were, that you are forced to take another player's tile whenever possible, make CHII declarable by any player (not only the next player), remove the yaku requirement, play with Washizu tiles, and other things, too. < 1254641839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make everyone play blindfolded. < 1254641904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washizu tiles are of no use if blindfolded. But even if everyone play blindfolded, you would then need some sort of referee to help with the things that nobody can possibly see. < 1254641936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ref could just tell you what *changed* when you do a move, and you have to figure everything out from that. < 1254641958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think there are some chess variants with similar ideas too < 1254641983 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so, you just need to remember what your tiles are? < 1254641998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your initial hand not known to you? < 1254642025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. (I don't know how to play Mahjongg, though.) < 1254642027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it could be like Kriegspiel chess, where you can call any move and if it is illegal you have to try a different move. < 1254642047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd basically be trying to build an image of the game in your head. < 1254642049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in mahjong you could call any tile, and if you don't have that one, the referee tells you to try a different one. < 1254642100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The referee would also have to tell you when you are allowed to take another player's tile < 1254642128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, possibly also, in a Washizu tiles set, tell the transparent tiles to everyone, and the opaque tiles if you pick it up only to you < 1254642149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then not tell anyone your initial hand, so you have to figure it out by logic < 1254642189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee < 1254642241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeOS should be fun; I'll make that VM in a few minutes. < 1254642383 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an example in Washizu mahjong which I have had to dealt with: Washizu has 123man/5pin/2334467sou and two opaque tiles. Which tiles is he waiting for? < 1254642397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pony. (I don't know Mahjongg.) < 1254642415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since I could see the opaque 2sou and opaque 5sou, I know the 8sou is a safe tile to discard. < 1254642438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is this kind of logic which you have to use in Washizu mahjong. < 1254642456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you interested to learn mahjong? < 1254642463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are, but some isn't. < 1254642487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not terribly, no. < 1254642497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen much to suggest it's a highly interesting game. < 1254642607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can tell you it is a highly interesting game. And there are many different rulesets, so you can find (or make) the ruleset you prefer. I often play using the Japanese ruleset, but I have a few house-rules, too. I especially like with Washizu tiles, but I don't have a physical set of Washizu tiles or the table that goes with it. < 1254642722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever play poker? < 1254642800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1254642837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's OK. < 1254642850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poker, as far as I can ascertain, comes down to three things: (a) luck, (b) probability theory and (c) social engineering. I can't get better at (a) and I'm terrible at (c), and I don't think I could be any good solely with (b). < 1254642953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are basically correct, but it is not quite as simple as that. But you are close. Mahjong deals with these three things too, but also a lot more, and often there are hidden strategies which you have just not figured out yet, until later. It happens to me, too. < 1254642995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mahjongg seems a lot more like a game and less an exercise in manipulating people to me, which is good. < 1254643033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, mahjong is a lot more like a game and less an exercise in manipulating people. < 1254643050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does the name have one or two Gs?) < 1254643055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are still bluffs to make in mahjong. < 1254643070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mahjong has just one 'G', not two. Some people write two but there is supposed to be only one. < 1254643194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Akagi manga, Akagi wins by doing many things that seems strange, and somewhat stupid (sometimes very stupid), but it all works. He has won with quintuple bluffs, no-ten riichi (basically you declare your hand one away from winning when it isn't, you have to pay a penalty for this in case of an exhaustive draw), and betting your life, etc. < 1254643199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254643200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254643343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one of my favorites, was, Akagi could see Washizu had two west, and west was dora (meaning your score doubles for each west you have), so he throw that one and Washizu take it to make three dora, but now he is out of yaku, so he needs three similar sequences to win. < 1254643402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a few turns he adjusts to 567/567/67, but the 67 is open. He picks up a 8, and can't use it (because he exposed the three Wests earlier), so has to discard it. Now, he has furiten. So, Akagi can now throw the 5 and declare riichi, and Washizu can't pick it up because of furiten. < 1254643436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see how it works? Such strange things don't normally happen in mahjong, but these are rare possibilities to do such things as this. < 1254643484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, since I don't know those terms. < 1254643620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pick up the tile to win yourself and nothing exposed, then you have "menzenchintsumo", which means you don't need anyone else's tiles to complete your hand. "Menzenchintsumo" is one possible yaku, but there are others. < 1254643662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furiten means a tile you discarded is one that can be used to complete your hand (even with no yaku), so then you cannot take another player's tile to complete your hand (this adds to the defensive strategy of the game). < 1254643735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each yaku and dora is worth a certain amount of "han". Each han doubles your score for this hand, up to a limit of 13 han, which is called "yakuman". < 1254643750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of other rules too. < 1254643795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look up Japanese mahjong rules if you are interested in it. < 1254644007 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-216.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254644229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254644290 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254644727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://imgur.com/bG9dd.png <-- that is some high res < 1254644824 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Coyote finally caught me" < 1254644832 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254644861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x771? < 1254644866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 1280x768 full res < 1254644869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254644877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, probably 1280x1024 < 1254644881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that hi res < 1254644900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean the imagse < 1254644902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*images < 1254644963 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254645183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I mean the zoomed level < 1254645194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254645194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high res of the sat that took the pic < 1254645199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, vans < 1254645204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they drive vans around < 1254645205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1254645231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, explains the perspective < 1254645241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tilt it iirc < 1254645242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I discovered a scam in Agora :D < 1254645263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1254645268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it and give me all the profit. < 1254645273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1254645285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if there's any profits < 1254645290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what is it < 1254645293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me in /msg < 1254645373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beos 4.5 boot floppy gets to splash and freezes :( < 1254645387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, hold down boot and you get a menu < 1254645395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ooh, hold down boot and you get a menu" < 1254645398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot key? < 1254645399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254645400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1254645401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down space < 1254645402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254645429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about Haiku < 1254645434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want the real thin < 1254645435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1254645438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254645439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ng/g/ < 1254645496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all safe mode options enabled still no dice. < 1254645503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did read that it doesn't boot on modern systems... < 1254645507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can qemu emulate an old system? < 1254645512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPUwise < 1254645528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clock speed etc < 1254645574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1254645632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty syre bochs (spelling?) can < 1254645633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure* < 1254645669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i'd rather buy an old bebox than try and figure out how to configure bochs properly, and then find the time to wait for it to boot up < 1254645679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1254645700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now bochs isn't THAT bad < 1254645734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least the configuration part is. I've only got to the boot up part once before deciding to do other things before dying of old age. :P < 1254645739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Joking.) < 1254645769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough about the config part < 1254645798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gave up on the game yesterday or? < 1254645803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1254645808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiki the nanobot < 1254645817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254645855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeOS did crazy, crazy, wild stuff on a 400mhz pentium pro, but I think bochs might actually be slower than that. < 1254645926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read reviews; its installer consists of selecting a partition in the GUI, hitting a button and waiting. That's it. < 1254645949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless your disk doesn't have a suitable partition made in Windows beforehand, in which case it displayed a partition editor, and then the installer. < 1254646002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying qemu is worth a try I guess < 1254646010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1254646414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, "error inflating file". < 1254646608 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254648283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i hear the manipulation part of poker is completely meaningless < 1254648575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: when you all advertised it, i solved a few puzzles in it, don't especially enjoy it < 1254648646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also tell me if those need context, they shouldn't < 1254648911 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-247.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649024 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254649071 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-201.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254649126 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649374 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649533 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-35-225.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649667 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649861 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254649873 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254649882 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254649901 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1254650714 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254650786 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254651337 0 :atrapado!n=roper@158.184.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254652829 0 :fizziew!n=htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254653364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Coyote finally caught me" < 1254653369 0 :fizziew!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1254654044 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254654044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :robinson.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254654078 0 :atrapado!n=roper@158.184.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254654078 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1254654083 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254656632 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254657176 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254658250 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1254659033 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254659169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizziew < 1254659175 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1254661915 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254663006 0 :MigoMipo!n=john@84-217-9-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254663127 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-21.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254663208 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254663499 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254663861 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254664115 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254664629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: D&D XD < 1254665315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1254665315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn lag < 1254665316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 30 seconds < 1254665548 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254665580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects AnMaster's client doesn't respond to pings. either that or his lag is _really_ bad < 1254665590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried changing server? < 1254665889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan suspects AnMaster's client doesn't respond to pings. either that or his lag is _really_ bad <-- indeed no ping replies < 1254665889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctcp ones that is < 1254665889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also yes I have... < 1254665889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been lag spikes like this for weeks now < 1254665900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after changing server a few times, so I gave up a week or two ago < 1254665941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps something in your neighborhood then < 1254666014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that _i_ am using a swedish server... unless i am lagged too < 1254666039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, ehird's client replied instantly < 1254666789 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254666985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, lag spikes for me < 1254667176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254668822 0 :Ann_Apolis!n=chatzill@host86-176-76-233.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254670009 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254670108 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254670529 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254673041 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254674828 0 :Ann_Apolis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009082707]" < 1254677017 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-62-153.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254677304 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254677435 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254677519 0 :MigoMipo!n=migomipo@84-217-9-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254677843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call me oklopol < 1254678866 0 :linf!n=nikita@93-81-170-5.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1254678953 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1254679011 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254680777 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254681513 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254684632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254684867 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254687090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y helo dar < 1254687093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it's linf < 1254687144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW ARE THE PEACHES I WONDER < 1254687592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/q/qemu-kvm/qemu-kvm_0.11.0~rc2-0ubuntu12_amd64.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.45 80] < 1254687597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. < 1254687628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/q/qemu-kvm/ < 1254687628 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254687630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1254687637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see a < 1254687638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party! < 1254687641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party oklofog < 1254687739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, updating fixed it < 1254687778 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah party time! < 1254687794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no binary package for kqemu in ubuntu, wtf. < 1254687855 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, "kemut" is finnish for "party" < 1254687868 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. at least it was a few hundred years ago. < 1254687870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence i think not < 1254687871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254687884 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly not < 1254687912 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god is telling us ubunty isn't where the party is at < 1254688205 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, tomorrow, i have 9 hours of communication skills < 1254688293 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna be great < 1254688422 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "speech communication", literally translated... my guess is no other country has that horrible subject < 1254688561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any luck with that computer? < 1254688563 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254688572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1254688603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening < 1254688696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, tomorrow, i have 9 hours of communication skills <-- well you should use them well, then < 1254688711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ordered a new AC adapter, but it'll of course take some time to get here. < 1254688728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully that's the cause of the problem. < 1254688735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254688761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254688789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway shouldn't system logs help (I here assume that you do remote syslog on any computer you use for any sort of server like task, like running fungot on) < 1254688851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You assume curious things. < 1254688878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofog! < 1254688887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages do not do final voicing! :| < 1254689000 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not following you < 1254689019 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well before you were oklofog < 1254689020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1254689022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok < 1254689025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're oklofog < 1254689029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the k voiced and became a g < 1254689035 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end of the word < 1254689038 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but languages dont do that! < 1254689041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only DEvoice! < 1254689067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ypi < 1254689070 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre sucj a rebel. < 1254689081 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it was fog first, so fok was devoiced, and i just dedevoiced back < 1254689092 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i'm sort of a total rebel < 1254689105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should front the a < 1254689108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1254689109 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :front the o < 1254689111 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to an a < 1254689134 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'm that much of a rebel < 1254689144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are a total fag. < 1254689148 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :akloglio < 1254689155 0 :akloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i am now < 1254689157 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how italian < 1254689169 0 :akloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the glio part yes < 1254689180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : languages do not do final voicing! :| <-- never? i could imagine it happening before vowels... < 1254689182 0 :akloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "k" not so much < 1254689195 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then its not final devoicing, is it? :) < 1254689196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then spreading by analogy < 1254689198 0 :akloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :acloglio < 1254689218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i mean vowels starting the next word < 1254689253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thats continuous speech < 1254689263 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if vowels ever imagine anything happening < 1254689268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those contexts very frequently eliminate the "finality" < 1254689288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm also danish has many voiced ending consonants where norwegian has unvoiced ones, although i'm not entirely sure which would be oldest... < 1254689300 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1254689305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thats not what i mean oerjan < 1254689315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of languages have both voiced and voiceless consonants at the ends of words < 1254689326 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just that when theyre pronounced, they're very frequently devoiced < 1254689339 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in continuous speech, where you get inter-word interactions < 1254689420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the danish consonants tend not to be plosives like the norwegian ones, i think < 1254689429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats ok < 1254689441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like no. "mat" vs. danish "mad", where the d is like english th < 1254689458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(both meaning "food") < 1254689462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P < 1254689565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you may very well be right about process within a single language. i recall german does that, and also vaguely recall russian < 1254689591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1254689593 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1254689620 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of historical change < 1254689621 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1254689624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final voicing is not found < 1254689638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not to say that you wont get something that looks like final voicing < 1254689646 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wont be actual final voicing < 1254689669 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance you might get something like < 1254689713 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.82.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254689719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language might look have a rule that final vowels are deleted, and then final consonants are devoiced < 1254689719 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No luck with the broken image. < 1254689733 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so VkV and VgV -> Vk < 1254689778 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I will have to settle with r5. Woe. < 1254689792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there might be an intervocalic voicing rule that emerges, which applies before vowel deletion < 1254689797 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up augur < 1254689799 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to VkV -> VgV -> Vk < 1254689816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look like final voicing in any way < 1254689821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just get rid of the devoicing rule < 1254689831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get VkV -> VgV -> Vg < 1254689842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254689848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what previously was always Vk < 1254689851 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now becomes Vg < 1254689860 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shuuuuuut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup < 1254689867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make me. < 1254689922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254689928 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gags augur < 1254689931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that contemporary phonological theory is NP-hard? < 1254689932 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NON-SEXUALLY < 1254689967 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1254690023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really hard to be NP-hard < 1254690101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254690126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_ gets me np-hard all the time < 1254690203 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah. im bored. < 1254690213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theres nothing interesting going on in the eso world! :( < 1254690276 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather. < 1254690288 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you think feather isn't interesting, gtfo and go die in a ditch < 1254690358 0 :jix!n=jix@g224150236.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254690412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure i know what feather is < 1254690425 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask ais523. < 1254690435 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll confuse you further but there's nothing more you can do with feather < 1254690442 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such is life < 1254690519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will have been, though < 1254690530 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254690557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoosh* < 1254690568 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got the reference < 1254690572 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't understand the sentence < 1254690575 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will have been what < 1254690594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more you can do with feather < 1254690603 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1254690604 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1254690628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW FIXING JOKES, RETROACTIVELY < 1254690760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I lost my ey < 1254690863 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't a terribly common ey. < 1254690930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very recently, i notice < 1254690940 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just now. < 1254690952 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably underneath my des, which has a floor for some god nows what reason. < 1254690991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a good thing it has a floor, you wouldn't want things to drop down under your house would you? < 1254690997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or worse, crawling up < 1254691013 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's two floors, see, one on my des and the other on my floor. :P < 1254691038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's really an outdoor desk < 1254691100 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1254691111 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal des: |-| < 1254691115 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My des: |=| < 1254691860 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkk < 1254691862 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a happy racist < 1254691904 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254693578 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254695071 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254695687 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254695805 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254696824 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :racism is bad < 1254696833 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god my nick scared me < 1254696837 0 :acloglio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1254696902 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254696910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaghetti al oglio < 1254696931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google's helpful suggestion) < 1254696945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254696976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love google < 1254696983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bye -> < 1254697004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1254697337 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254697426 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1254697427 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks < 1254697530 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254697561 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254697588 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1254699587 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 105 (No buffer space available) < 1254699913 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to buy a monitor < 1254699927 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you now < 1254699956 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhuh < 1254700074 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176107 < 1254700135 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ips; worthless < 1254700152 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ips? < 1254700158 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-plane switching < 1254700187 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tn: ubiquitous, cheap, simply appalling colour reproduction (as in, trivially noticeable compared to an ips by even the most untrained eye) < 1254700187 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254700194 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1254700197 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible viewing angle < 1254700197 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1254700204 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything inverts and goes to shit quickly < 1254700207 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably using a tn now < 1254700223 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ips is rare, less cheap (ok, ok, not cheap) and rules < 1254700260 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254700272 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use ellipses more than AnMaster < 1254700323 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254700492 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................... < 1254700507 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1254700512 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254700512 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001317 < 1254700530 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048 * 1152 is big < 1254700564 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, you'll squint at bitmaps made for ~96ppi displays. also, it's glossy. also, it's 16:9, which sucks for computer usage vs 16:10 < 1254700586 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((ha! I resisted saying ips!)) < 1254700661 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more pixels than 1920*1200 < 1254700687 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you have mastered the dumb-consumer reasoning that the companies depend on < 1254700779 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254700794 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................. < 1254700821 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254700867 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001323R < 1254700912 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open box = returned = shit's probably fucked < 1254700972 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254701031 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the record, cheapest 24" ips = http://www.amazon.com/LP2475W-24in-LCD-Monitor-1920X1200/dp/B001FS1LLI/) < 1254701076 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiiight < 1254701094 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a wee bit expensive < 1254701117 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an abacus is way cheaper than a computer < 1254701120 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit crappy for computing, though. < 1254701363 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Touch-T260-25-5-inch-Monitor/dp/B0019ASAY8/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1254697590&sr=1-27 < 1254701419 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even mention the resolution, lol < 1254701433 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1920*1200 < 1254701440 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 25.5? < 1254701441 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really low dpi < 1254701447 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24" 1920x1200 is only 94ppi already < 1254701460 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :88.79 ppi, yikes... < 1254701468 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1254701470 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even old, really crappy monitors are 84 ppi < 1254701486 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: so you'll see the pixel grid all the time and it looks like shit, I know because I have one lying around < 1254701501 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything looks bigger which makes it feel like you're using 800x600 < 1254701583 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pretty sure their marketing blurb about light translates to "lol glossy shit". < 1254701635 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254701813 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this monitor here is only 86 < 1254701843 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254701869 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: so if your monitor is a paragon of excellence why are you buyng a new one :P < 1254701871 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*buying < 1254701879 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz it's tiny < 1254701913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the SGU theme music reminds me of your Op. 11 :D < 1254701970 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shitting Gonad Urethras isn't something you should be proud of watching, coppro. < 1254704579 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence < 1254704621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1254704982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait coppro what < 1254704984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SGU theme? < 1254704985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1254705260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think im into copprophilia < 1254705268 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmi tmi tmi TMI < 1254705278 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254705282 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just talkin bout coppro! < 1254705290 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need to know about your love of copp- dammit < 1254705309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1254706059 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254706281 0 :boily!n=boily@dsl-67-230-154-58.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1254706913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, the SGU theme :) < 1254706926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you has link to gregor's op 11? < 1254706962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg < 1254707005 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically the scales in the middle parts < 1254707066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the SGU theme? < 1254707133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; I heard it listening to SGU < 1254707138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*watching SGU < 1254707185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't SGA still going on? < 1254707205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Stargate Atlantis < 1254707213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the correct way to abbreviate that? < 1254707269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254707289 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ended in January, says my magic Wikipedophile powers. < 1254707304 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254707360 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a film planned, though, straight to DVD like the ark of truth and continuum. < 1254707374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, SGA ended < 1254707407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must find a way to watch The IT Crowd season 3 < 1254707415 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thepiratebay.org < 1254707462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably without torrents < 1254707477 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitraryrequirementsatisfactionzone.ridiculous < 1254707512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surfthechannel.com < 1254707512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254707576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty augur < 1254707594 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, lower quality, buffering and in many cases just as illegal < 1254707602 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more could you *possibly* want < 1254707657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't "feel" as illegal < 1254707671 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, tell that to the judge < 1254707704 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254707708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I know she's 13, but officer, it didn't FEEL illegal!" < 1254707806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1254707808 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with you < 1254707812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd feel very illegal < 1254707833 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 14 actually. < 1254707836 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1254707843 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254707854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough! < 1254707891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Are you saying I prerippedoff SGU? :P < 1254707911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: are you trying to talk to coppro? < 1254707929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, yes. < 1254707942 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor, did you write op 11 yourself, or is this an algo? < 1254707945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not that close together; just similar < 1254707968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: You're either calling me a friggin' amazing programmer, or a terrible composer. < 1254707975 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1254707976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take your pick! < 1254708006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The autocomposed music all has titles. Furthermore, the titles are all of the form