< 1257120292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008142957.htm <-- look at the google ads O_o < 1257120328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1257120366 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Biological Data Analysis" ... "Microbial Insights" ... "$89 Home DNA Test" < 1257120371 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you saw too? (doubt it) < 1257120417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I saw similar ones < 1257120433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best one I got was "miRNA array analysis" < 1257120441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit esoteric to be on google ads < 1257120453 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*microarray < 1257120514 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric? Google? nah ;-) < 1257120685 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257120889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't want to do homework :( < 1257121266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1257121357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biology < 1257121365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and English < 1257121376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which together account for 100% of my school subjects :/ < 1257121377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :break it up into bite-sized pieces, perhaps? < 1257121384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard < 1257121385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tedious < 1257121399 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a given ;-) < 1257121402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and creative, too < 1257121406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like creative < 1257121467 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but esoteric languages are creative < 1257121495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a different way < 1257121504 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257121505 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of glad I'm taking only math classes. < 1257121506 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257121514 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the school version of creative - e.g. "stuff that isn't what you normally do" < 1257121525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: I can't wait until Uni :) < 1257121535 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to take five-ish math classes next semester, but the head of the math department came and told me I shouldn't do that. < 1257121543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biology isn't creative unless you engineer new lifeforms < 1257121562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, you'd probably burn out with 5+ < 1257121593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _still_ waiting for oklopol's great burnout this year < 1257121619 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I burned out this semester with a single non-math class. :-P < 1257121689 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually a double non-math class. < 1257121719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend half my day working at a biotech firm, it's awesome :) < 1257121825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, done the noncreative part of part 1 < 1257121834 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so what are you currenly doing for education? < 1257121842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High school < 1257121847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last year < 1257121861 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you United States? < 1257121865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1257121867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada < 1257121882 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said "uni", kinda a giveaway ;-) < 1257121899 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How does the education system go there? < 1257121905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 years < 1257121915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, thought it was 13 < 1257121916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and kindergarten, but that doesn't count < 1257121945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No province has had 13 for several years < 1257121954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ;-) < 1257121968 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except Quebec has the weird CEGEP thing < 1257121982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes fist < 1257121988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quebec has 11 years + 2 years CEGEP < 1257122006 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of that is high school? < 1257122015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 years I think < 1257122019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 3 here < 1257122047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, Quebec just has secondary schools, which are 5 years < 1257122061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no distinction between junior high/middle school and high school < 1257122091 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kind of an expecting an answer along the lines of "one year of kindergarten, eight years of primary school, four years of secondary school (high school), then college/university". < 1257122100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fine < 1257122118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one year kindergarten, 6 years elementary, 3 years junior high, 3 years high school in Alberta < 1257122123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two years preschool optional < 1257122129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before kindergarten) < 1257122223 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So pretty much like in the US but with one year of high school removed and added to elementary. < 1257122238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so, not 100% sure < 1257122247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in the U.S. in some places, 9th is in middle < 1257122249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given that I don't know your system) < 1257122271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that I hope I get accepted to UW < 1257122279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Waterloo) < 1257122329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257122355 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess the two systems are actually consistent, then. < 1257122392 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257122426 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UW? Is that in ontario? < 1257122465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1257122477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best math school in the country, and high up there worldwide < 1257122579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only problem is, my transcript doesn't look as good as it should because of stupid options I was forced to take :( < 1257122604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcripts are dishonest anyways (well, mine is) < 1257122643 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to often get the feeling that the school I'm at... kinda sucks. < 1257122655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What school? < 1257122661 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grand Valley State University. < 1257122667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it :/ < 1257122679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I haven't heard of most US schools except the big ones < 1257122696 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is kind of big. < 1257122701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of it either, doesn't mean it's bad < 1257122717 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The enrollment is 23,000. < 1257122720 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that feeling that one's school sucks is fairly common ;-) < 1257122730 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1257122796 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I used to think is that the Internet could teach me in minutes what school teaches in weeks. < 1257122863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows this isn't tru < 1257122865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*true < 1257122875 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it seems that while that's more or less true for certain types of declarative knowledge, for procedural knowledge, it's a different story. < 1257122888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1257122915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet school isn't exactly a "bargain", either < 1257122926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :( < 1257122934 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, though, I feel like my greatest advances in procedural knowledge have come about online. < 1257122977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that the internet, while it has most of the knowledge you may deign to acquire, it generally sucks at explaining it < 1257122982 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had two "what the hell am I doing" moments online, and none in school. < 1257122992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're left to figure out which order to learn things on your own < 1257123007 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257123013 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "hmm, well, I suppose that if you kind of visualize it like this, you can kind of see that--what the hell am I doing? There's a formula for this"! < 1257123023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257123065 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno.. i think there isn't too much good music theory on the net < 1257123073 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One was when I was trying to figure out a parameter that would make two functions tangent. I took the arctangent of the derivative. < 1257123077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: I said "most", not all < 1257123079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #1 issue with school that helps give that feeling is a lot of knowledge that should be procedural (e.g. math) is treated like it isn't. < 1257123090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at low levels < 1257123096 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other was when solving the Diophantine equation x^2 - y^2 = 1817; I didn't realize that the left side could be factored. < 1257123103 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :school = rote memorization and busywork, that's all < 1257123131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: see, that's the problem. When it /isn't/ that, it's exciting to learn < 1257123141 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music theory = only good in as much as you are willing to discard it < 1257123163 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: ah, but many jobs are rote memorization and busy work < 1257123175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. have you ever seen a teacher show the derivation of the quadratic formula? < 1257123190 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a teacher show the derivation of the quadratic formula. < 1257123205 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was perplexed by the fact that the other students called the derivation "freaky". < 1257123211 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I love being creative and all, but now I have to get someone to pay for it and it sounds hard < 1257123220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: lol < 1257123226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they got shown how it works < 1257123229 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: dunno what to think about music theory... < 1257123234 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaky that when you do this, you get the same answer as when people did it hundreds of years ago? What the *hell* did you expect? < 1257123241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to remember things you understand < 1257123246 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charlie Parker: "Learn as much as you can, then forget all that s**t" < 1257123255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is THE problem with math education in North America < 1257123284 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they don't have time to let you understand, only time to make you memorize stuff and do lots of busywork < 1257123291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong < 1257123297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta cram in so much curriculum < 1257123306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could teach things far quicker if they showed you how to understand < 1257123307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must give so many tests, etc. < 1257123314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have plenty of time. < 1257123318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then they suck too bad ;-) < 1257123321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A full 12 years. < 1257123326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they waste it < 1257123331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257123339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a systemic problem < 1257123340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think Windows 7 really needs 16 GB of HD space?? nope, but they waste it < 1257123342 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its not the smart mathematicians who teach¸ < 1257123343 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing ;-)) < 1257123353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it's unreasonable to get a basic understanding of mathematics in that time. < 1257123365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another great example is fractions < 1257123366 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones who teach are the ones who know how to deal with kids < 1257123387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, people appear to think that mathematics is merely calculation. So... < 1257123392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ... Ah, no. < 1257123405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the ones who teach are whoever they can get < 1257123416 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rux: ah, yeah < 1257123417 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257123418 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need lots of experience either < 1257123426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A symptom of the flawed education < 1257123428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones who teach are the ones who know how not to send people to the guillotine. < 1257123434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Absolutely. < 1257123434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 4th grade teacher's parents were younger than mine (at the time!) < 1257123472 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilariously ironic < 1257123477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me at least < 1257123494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclosure: my own mother is a math teacher) < 1257123505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I ever learned jack from her) < 1257123518 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a math whiz < 1257123550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yet, you program. < 1257123557 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I learned some math (mostly having to do with programming!)... I never figured out how to do integrals though < 1257123561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think the guillotine was outlawed in 1982 or so in France, so... ;-) < 1257123566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... *is mathematics*. < 1257123569 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I remembered the number 1817... < 1257123582 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18, 17, 16, 15 ... < 1257123620 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still better than the gas chamber < 1257123642 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had to choose a method of execution for myself, I'm sure I would choose nitrogen asphyxiation. < 1257123646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1812 was the year of the War of 1812! < 1257123657 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine how any method of execution could be more humane. < 1257123669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural causes? ;-) < 1257123707 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying in your sleep? < 1257123717 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess execution by natural causes is a pretty humane way to do it. :-) < 1257123744 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about nitrogen asphyxiation is it works like this: < 1257123750 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You put on a mask. You get dizzy. You die. < 1257123762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes execution by bomb -- sitting right next to the one who gave out the death sentence. < 1257123809 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execution by suicide-brought-on-by-remorse-brought-on-by-murder. < 1257123897 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death by chocolate ;-) < 1257124041 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what, never heard of that dish?) < 1257124062 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_Chocolate < 1257124317 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.240.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257124324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally, every time Psystar turns on any of the Psystar computers running Mac OS X, which it does before shipping each computer, Psystar necessarily makes a separate modified copy of Mac OS X in Random Access Memory, or RAM. This is the third unlawful copy." —Apple < 1257124328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I'm a pirate. < 1257124387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... yeah sure < 1257124397 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but counting like that is a little bit of a stretch < 1257124416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I was quoting it and calling myself a pirate because I thought it was sane and reasonable. < 1257124420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hears that latest Ubuntu runs on Intel Macs < 1257124426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't mocking it or anything, nosiree, thanks for the apology. < 1257124433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has run on intel macs since about 3 seconds after they came out < 1257124435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just agreeing, it's a bit isnane < 1257124439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more like a few monthhts < 1257124439 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1257124441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*months < 1257124442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1257124444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has windows < 1257124451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows doesn't count < 1257124451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, windows took a bit longer i think < 1257124452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1257124458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: without boot camp. < 1257124464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot camp just partitions and gives you a driver CD < 1257124482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an EFI upgrade (like BIOS) that let you boot BIOS things from it, you see < 1257124484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when boot camp came out < 1257124486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before that < 1257124490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just hacked up their own shit < 1257124492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257124493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could run windows on it < 1257124500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux happened earlier because there is a linux bootloader for efi < 1257124501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elilo < 1257124506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses it now though < 1257124539 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest Ubuntu has issues with Intel gfx, I hear < 1257124568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a different note) < 1257124582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're changing everything around. after this intel graphics should be good < 1257124583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in X11) < 1257124587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Xorg < 1257124597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu by itself does very little apart from ship unstable things that barely work < 1257124610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based upon Debian "testing", from what I've read < 1257124628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sid. < 1257124633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you've been able to install rEFIt (EFI bootloader selector thingy, just point-and-click in OS X to install), pop in an ubuntu CD in an intel mac and install it for years now < 1257124648 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never hear anybody doing that, though < 1257124663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons of people do it. I've done it several times and used Ubuntu for a few weeks recently. < 1257124678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328 < 1257124685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole forum of Mac Ubuntu users. < 1257124690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active. < 1257124710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC too?? < 1257124771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please join the irc release party in ...", heh < 1257124785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC is a "community-supported port" < 1257124789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: "barely works" < 1257124865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be using this machine "sometime soon" anyway; hopefully I'll forget all the crap I needed to get it working. < 1257124866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation: "soon to be obsoleted, even by us!" < 1257124886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been community-supported (== we won't support it) since 2006, iirc. < 1257124900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The population of Mac users that use Ubuntu is small enough; PPC Ubuntu? < 1257124909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that about Macs, they brag how great they are then drop them like stones once they are *barely* obsolete < 1257124925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC was obsolete before 2005 < 1257124930 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate everything < 1257124944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G5 was fast, sure... but they still sucked. Especially the heat output. < 1257124952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4 anyone? ;-) < 1257124956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine Apple were trying to jump the PPC ship since before 2004. < 1257124963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: in fact, the first Intel machines sent to developers— < 1257124967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were pentium 4 Mac Pros < 1257124976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Apple never sold anything before Core 1, right? < 1257124983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopee < 1257124985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nope < 1257124989 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though they'd been testing since 2000) < 1257124999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to go ahead and guess that negotiating with intel is hard < 1257125019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel made a specific variant of the cpu just for Apple < 1257125030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, Apple is 100% Intel-only, so I'm not too surprised < 1257125035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they? < 1257125039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257125040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hte macbook air < 1257125041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1257125046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a stock CPU nowadays < 1257125059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, dropping ppc support from snow leopard saved ~10 GiB and means they can do a bunch of intel optimisations, which is cool. ppc users aree used to everyything being slow and crufty anyway :D < 1257125064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are *everything *fucking keyboard < 1257125085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the idea that a machine still runs perfectly but is obsoleted ... ugh < 1257125153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you must be in favour of abolishing capitalism in favour of massexcessism, where the more time you waste and neglect things most people actually use, the more money you get. < 1257125174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PPCs don't run perfectly, btw. < 1257125186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing does, but it doesn't mean it's useless < 1257125241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try to explain proper allocation of resources and practicality and all those sane things but I think I've tried that too many times already. < 1257125356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: presumably you'll complain that my static-only linux distro sucks because i'll compile it for i686 only, when all the software could work on i386... < 1257125407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux these days won't run well (if at all) on less than a 686 anyways < 1257125449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honestly, most people don't have older than a 686 anyways < 1257125455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fedora is 586+ since 11) < 1257125461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, and most people don't have older than an Intel Mac... < 1257125470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Dad does < 1257125474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who buys a Mac expecting a loooooong product life on the latest stuff is deluding themselves anyway. < 1257125479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah, and my $person owns a <686 too < 1257125489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise that people use linux on embedded devices, btw? < 1257125492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have an original P1 < 1257125495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are ... rather less powerful than a 686. < 1257125510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying they don't exist, but especially since nobody seems to care, then it's heavily moot < 1257125534 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257125540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:24] Rugxulo: just the idea that a machine still runs perfectly but is obsoleted ... ugh < 1257125545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1257125550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure pentium 1s ran pretty "perfectly" if you stayed minimal < 1257125555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're being pretty contradictory here < 1257125557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Linux?? < 1257125562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not from my experience < 1257125568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's linux's fault < 1257125571 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do more in DOS than Linux < 1257125573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPU ran perfectly, which is the issue at hand < 1257125575 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257125576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, linux should support it < 1257125583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by your argument < 1257125584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux == elitism < 1257125591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257125598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the single-handed dumbest thing you've ever said < 1257125606 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typed < 1257125650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only get laughed away trying to do things like that < 1257125672 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't help < 1257125723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, probably because you were saying dumb shit and not listening to them; two, i've never had that experience, ever; three, you do realise as a rebuttal to my statement that according to you, the pentium 1 should be supported by linux, this is a complete non-sequitur? < 1257125750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium 1 is (barely) supported < 1257125754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, four, if ubuntu (that my mother uses!) is elitist, you're crazy < 1257125763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most 586s don't support over a certain amount of RAM (e.g. 64 MB) < 1257125804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in reality, much less is installed, and Linux doesn't work very well with low amounts < 1257125814 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you like mad swapping) < 1257125841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you've ever tried to use linux on a low-end machine. it can handle low RAM just fine. < 1257125851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you were trying to install ubuntu with gnome or something. < 1257125884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't handle it well, that's for sure < 1257125896 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without recompiling everything from scratch, rolling your own, etc. < 1257125920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about the very minimal "runs but does nothing" install either < 1257125998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, debian runs on everything. < 1257126005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian+busybox runs on everything and a machine. < 1257126048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Contiki runs on everything :-) < 1257126073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from x86-64 < 1257126098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 is a mode, not a chip < 1257126109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect < 1257126113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 is an architecture in itself < 1257126115 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it still runs in legacy 32-bit mode < 1257126121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the same < 1257126127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfs (spec) < 1257126137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any AMD64 chips that won't run 32-bit or 16-bit? no, so it's moot < 1257126150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not listening to what i'm saying. < 1257126159 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't hear you, this is text :-P < 1257126174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, please point out we're typing into keyboards again, it's hilarious < 1257126215 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thiis froom thee guuy whoo caan't stoop tallking aboout hiis keeyboard < 1257126227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sucks and i need to buy a better one < 1257126233 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, no seriously, I know Debian can run on low end, but it won't be fun, that's for sure < 1257126244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the days are long gone where you can comfortably run Linux in less than 128 MB of RAM < 1257126247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme that p1 and i'll get linux on it < 1257126262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do what exactly? 32 MB just isn't enough to do anything < 1257126272 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even DSL (or TinyCore) needs 32 MB minimum < 1257126279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are wroooooong < 1257126283 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that rules out ever compiling anything < 1257126291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, since when < 1257126299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you go to console only, and even then modern GCC is a hog < 1257126300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you can't run gcc 4... < 1257126308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, you have no idea about this < 1257126318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even GCC 3.4.6 would probably be slow (as 3.4.4 with DJGPP isn't really fast) < 1257126342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel for instance compiles with gcc 2. < 1257126367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to *only* compile with GCC 2, but that changed when people finally got tired of that annoyance (although GCC 2 is lightning fast in comparison) < 1257126383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'm going to go out and get a Linux system that should run in 32MB of RAM. < 1257126407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BasicLinux can run in very low amounts, but it's useless < 1257126429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as in a computer? < 1257126444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/082/8234/8234f3.png < 1257126445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have said computer any more, sadly. < 1257126446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basiclinux is useless? < 1257126457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, you mean a distro or whatever < 1257126460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257126465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial to do, really. < 1257126481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems Rugxulo's definition of useless is runs smoothly on a p1 < 1257126487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an amusingly circular definition. < 1257126543 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"runs" what, exactly? 'cause kernel + Busybox isn't much functionality, IMHO < 1257126593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like basiclinux runs X11 or anything < 1257126594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooope < 1257126599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That + troff is a nice typesetting system. < 1257126610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troff is not a nice typesetting system pikhq. < 1257126611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nice except that it's outclassed by TeX. :P < 1257126625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm mostly referring to the original "official" use of UNIX, there. < 1257126633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still unreadable < 1257126655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troff would be 10x better it you could do \{foo} to mean \n.foo\n < 1257126673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering it's competition was not very far removed from the original printing presses, though... < 1257126755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites a manpage with \{...} out of curiosity < 1257126774 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\textsc{unix} < 1257126841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, too lazy! < 1257127401 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, dumb question, but why a.out? < 1257127409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ELF is overkill. < 1257127418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he means why the filename < 1257127423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1257127424 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I meant for your distro < 1257127427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1257127440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ELF was invented to make dynamic linking suck less (and, well, for some debugging stuff). < 1257127446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really COFF did that too, ELF was just going furtherr. < 1257127447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*further < 1257127453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a.out is simpler and I don't do dynamic linking... < 1257127458 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP still uses COFF (as does NT, more or less) < 1257127479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT uses something closely related to COFF. < 1257127484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, COFF is even more obscure than a.out for Linux, and has the same disadvantages as ELF. < 1257127491 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their own weird variant, oddly different < 1257127500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows uses PE, which is a derivative of COFF. < 1257127513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they use in 9x, I wonder? < 1257127522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft migrated to the PE format with the introduction of the Windows NT 3.1 operating system. All later versions of Windows, including Windows 95/98/ME, support the file structure." < 1257127525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3 then < 1257127528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still PE in Win9x < 1257127542 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they mean Win32s < 1257127546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NE, abbreviation for New Executable, is a 16-bit[1] executable file format that was introduced in Windows 3.x [2], and was also used at a later[dubious – discuss] time in OS/2 and 16-bit Windows. While it was "new" at the time of invention, it is now rare and obsolete, though its usage can still be found by a few select programs.[3] It is backwards compatible with the older DOS MZ format.[1] < 1257127553 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember ever seeing PE in Win3x, only NE < 1257127567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone add NE support to Linux! < 1257127572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PE has an NE/MZ header. < 1257127582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Em nemz nemz nemz nemz < 1257127587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: With the new ability to have arbitrary executable formats, not hard at all. < 1257127588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Executable nomming. < 1257127595 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unz unz unz unz unz unz < 1257127600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a userspace NE loader, and register it with the kernel. < 1257127620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocatable_Object_Module_Format < 1257127621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.obj files! < 1257127629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same trick can be done to add PE support to Linux. (with Win32 support happening all magic-like) < 1257127650 0 :Rugxulo`!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257127660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux+PE+Wine = Oh god kill me now < 1257127691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It consists just of making the kernel call out to Wine when it sees a PE header. < 1257127710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of making an appropriately formatted file in /proc, IIRC. < 1257127715 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, too many file formats < 1257127718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x( < 1257127734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly a *great* idea, but nowhere near as crazy as you'd think. < 1257127751 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE is way more overkill than DOSEMU < 1257127768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE does a lot more than DOSEMU. < 1257127772 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257127782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It implements a complex ABI, rather than just being a vm86 handler. < 1257127798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and/or a simple 8086 emulator) < 1257127800 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU on x86-64 emulates all 16-bit instructions < 1257127805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gimme some cash to buy a Topre board :( < 1257127829 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257127838 0 :Rugxulo`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Rugxulo < 1257127875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Money! To me! In return gratitude. It's an unbeatable deal. < 1257127894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of Bedazzled < 1257127911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feed my infinite need to buy a $250 keyboard ;_; < 1257127932 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it run Linux? ^_^ < 1257127945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, but it does have a bunch of switches on the back to remap stuff. < 1257127949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIP switches! < 1257127960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the controller might be able to run uclinux < 1257127961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1257127995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look very fancy at all, really... http://static.benippon.net/magento/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/E/L/ELEC-PD-KB400WN.jpg < 1257128002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Linux's support for arbitrary executable formats could be used to implement some compatibility layers (akin to, say, FreeBSD's Linux support) < 1257128015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is freebsd's linux support still good these days? < 1257128031 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be, last I heard 8.0 would have 2.6 support < 1257128051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone run gnome on top of it :-D < 1257128052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They're upgrading it from 2.4.2 to 2.6 support, syscall-wise. < 1257128056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And X11! < 1257128064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it seems to be rather good. < 1257128114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just get a filco with cherry switches to tide me over, they're more like $100 :-P < 1257128127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an uber-cheap TVS Gold or Scorpius M10 for like $50 < 1257128136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those only haves blues though. < 1257128224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably switch to colemamk sometime. < 1257128244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*colemak < 1257128384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't < 1257128426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why not < 1257128442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because colemak is a halfway measure between qwerty and dvorak < 1257128460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i thought that too and deewiant said "no it isn't bitch" and i researched it < 1257128462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather hard to come up with a legitimate use case for that < 1257128468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak actually has better statistical properties than dvorak. < 1257128480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers don't lie < 1257128486 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers of what? < 1257128490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257128499 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I name my HackBot-alike wiki? < 1257128502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what statistical properties? < 1257128504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance finger travel, how much you stray from the home row < 1257128508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand distribution < 1257128508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257128515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak is simply better than dvorak < 1257128520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eh? < 1257128524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lies. < 1257128532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: whatever you say. < 1257128541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsubstantiated nonsense < 1257128545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HockBat, HackBotter, HackBot++ < 1257128548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice, troll < 1257128558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm thinking of making a wiki where every node is like a command in HackEgo. < 1257128573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's not really a "wiki" is it < 1257128591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it not? Anybody can edit any page, the pages just happen to be scripts. < 1257128607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, everything that lets people change it on the internet is now a wiki? < 1257128617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collaborative paint? more like WIKI PAINT < 1257128637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except this would actually be extremely similar to a wiki, in that there are pages which are editable. < 1257128643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the biggest problem with colemak is that it's used exclusively by douchebag < 1257128654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1257128656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Deewiant loves you too < 1257128658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only met one person who used colemak, and he was a douchebag < 1257128665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=1 < 1257128667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great sample size < 1257128677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not a very popular layout < 1257128682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: do you use dvorak? < 1257128684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257128691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, you're a douchebag too < 1257128705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will now proceed to discard all the rest of my sample of dvorak users to be on a level playing field < 1257128710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kimgrahamstudios.com/images/troll-15.jpg < 1257128712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257128721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun having an op that's a troll! < 1257128723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: aw sorry :( < 1257128725 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a douchebag. I'm not even a bag! < 1257128736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not even a tree i don't know what Rugxulo is talkingn about < 1257128736 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a meatbag? ;-) < 1257128740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talking < 1257128795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lady is weird < 1257128798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257128855 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25-Dec-2006: David Piepgrass: Why QWERTY, And What's Better? (PDF). < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“All things considered, I believe Colemak is better than Dvorak and the best alternative to QWERTY.” < 1257128934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Piepgrass is the designer of the Asset keyboard layout. < 1257128935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to carpalx, which is the most extensive research on keyboard layouts done so far, Colemak wins over Dvorak and QWERTY in all different typing effort models. < 1257128935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Andrei Stanescu: "Colemak is quite close to Dvorak. It scores a little bit better in some areas and a bit worse in other areas, and its overall score is usually 2-5% better than that of Dvorak, but it is worse for some texts. So it's slightly better than Dvorak, especially if you take into consideration its other advantages (better position for Backspace and similarity to Qwerty)." < 1257128940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—http://colemak.com/Media < 1257128942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, their media page is biased but that doesn't change the facts. also, http://colemak.com/Ergonomic < 1257128944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see http://colemak.com/Compare to get some statistics for various texts < 1257128946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could go on but i'm lazy < 1257129036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I type fast enough on QWERTY, so it's mainly hand strain and comfort that makes me want to switch. < 1257129047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think slower than i can type, so) < 1257129084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, ehird, what main apps will your distro intend to run? < 1257129149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window manager http://dwm.suckless.org/, terminal emulator (either urxvt or st (http://st.suckless.org/) or something), command-line toolset, vim, irc client ii (http://tools.suckless.org/ii), browser prolly surf http://surf.suckless.org/... i swear it isn't all suckless software, just the most-used stuff :-P < 1257129160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring infrastructure) < 1257129179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which case my init, my package manager, xorg, not sure what shell yet (maybe pdksh)) < 1257129180 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TinyC? < 1257129194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: alas tcc can't really compile much worthwhile. besides, it's ELF only < 1257129206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc for kernel+libc+stuff, < 1257129207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can run .c as if scripts < 1257129214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang (llvm) for the rest < 1257129218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gcc if absoslutely needed < 1257129221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*absolutely < 1257129223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc is probably newlib < 1257129227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or eglibc for shit things that require glibc < 1257129230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no it can't < 1257129234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just compiles them and runs them < 1257129240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that with anything. besides, it's useless < 1257129241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rAM? < 1257129245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257129247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a temp file < 1257129257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay < 1257129294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc is cool though... shinhichiro hamaji (anarchy golf owner) contributed 64-bit support to the latest release < 1257129314 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Rob Landrey whined forever that it didn't support 64-bit < 1257129328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the guy that worked on it? < 1257129335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were other reasons too iirc < 1257129336 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he forked it a few times, that's all < 1257129348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his complaints were mostly complete dormancy. < 1257129353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | Colemak = ban < 1257129356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little option other than to fork < 1257129357 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that and relying on CVS < 1257129361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1257129365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which he hates with a passion < 1257129409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does anyone sane. < 1257129415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most insane. < 1257129567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS's use was only excusable when the principle alternative was RCS... < 1257129588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1257129730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about things not likenable to laughing at a retarded kitten < 1257129773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (argc == 2 && !strcmp(argv[1], "--version")) { < 1257129773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : puts("This is not GNU sed version 4.0"); < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1257129774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—busybox < 1257129779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopps < 1257129782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chopped fof the comment < 1257129785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Lie to autoconf when it starts asking stupid questions. */ < 1257129789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above that < 1257129797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oops *chopped *off < 1257129801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257129820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'chopped' was correct ;-) < 1257129910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:56 AnMaster: i don't think i have tried to use /list without a channel argument, if that's what you mean. i'm not _that_ stupid :D < 1257129910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine < 1257129912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on efnet < 1257129929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it only takes a few seconds on freenode < 1257129944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only 5769 public rooms < 1257129972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[#!/bin/mksh] Welcome to the portable MirBSD Korn Shell discussion channel. For mksh on MirBSD see #mirbsd on Freeforge (http://mirbsd.de/irc) as well; be invited to stay here though. Encoding: UTF-8. English spoken. Wir sprechen Deutsch." < 1257129973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooh < 1257129995 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a fork of pdksh < 1257129997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the website of the MirBSD™ Korn Shell, an actively developed free implementation of the Korn Shell programming language and a successor to the Public Domain Korn Shell (pdksh)." < 1257130000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it ain't bloated < 1257130004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: pdksh is unmaintained though < 1257130007 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1257130017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also forked JOE (-> JUPP) < 1257130033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not gonna ship bash < 1257130062 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do an "--enable-minimal-config" with Bash, if desired < 1257130073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, much rather have a better shell < 1257130075 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, don't forget Dash (although if you dislike GPL, it probably is) < 1257130081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash will be available for compatibility, probably < 1257130093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shell scripting, rc will be overwhelmingly recommended < 1257130155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm consdering shipping the Heirloom tools http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/ as the userlaand < 1257130158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*userland < 1257130193 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rc will run autoconf scripts, so you'll have to use dash or similar < 1257130211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no duh, rc is totally different < 1257130221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf scripts can be run with pdksh and the like. < 1257130228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're ridiculously over-portable. < 1257130235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in this case happens to be advantageous for me. < 1257130239 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, often they don't get enough testing < 1257130242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash will be an optional install i.e. a package < 1257130250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something breaks, try and fix it, else install dash < 1257130257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reason to avoid GPL (e.g. dietlibc) explicitly? < 1257130272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one, I don't like GPL, but I have two specific objections to dietlibc being GPL < 1257130283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, the author is a raving loon about it (says it's to stop microsoft stealing it to make windows better) < 1257130291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, it means i can't redistribute non-GPL binaries compiled with it < 1257130296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i simply cannot use it < 1257130303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, this is acknowledged by the author) < 1257130303 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe LGPL might be better no? < 1257130307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: aha, in fact < 1257130311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc is lgpl and i can't use it either < 1257130312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1257130314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i statically link < 1257130314 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-GPL compatible, maybe, but that's not a huge problem as lots of stuff is GPL anyways < 1257130319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to distribute the unlinked .o < 1257130325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the binary < 1257130331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the program's .o) < 1257130336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ha ha ha ha ha ha HA < 1257130338 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then just do that < 1257130348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no, a large amount of non-shit software is non-gpl < 1257130360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know others exist, but GPL is definitely popular < 1257130368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance all suckless tools, all ported plan 9 tools, ... and a lot of shit software is non-gpl too: xorg, ncurses, ... < 1257130380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang, etc. < 1257130393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: let's put it this way — simply by selecting the least crappy software I can, I will be shipping almost no GPL'd code < 1257130409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on having all the programs I ship be GPL will simply never happen < 1257130417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my first objection stands regardless of anything; he's a loon < 1257130422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact he's a rather well-known loon) < 1257130440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw since when is clang gpl. < 1257130454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bsd just like llvm < 1257130467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why I'm probably going to use it as the main userspace compiler < 1257130469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm-gcc is the only GPL thing of LLVM. < 1257130479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will have to write my own a.out support for LLVM; easy enough) < 1257130485 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I said Clang was BSD < 1257130492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't, but i see how to parse it now < 1257130498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying other licenses exist, but GPL is everywhere (seemingly) < 1257130534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully those sane enough to produce decent software are also almost always sane enough to avoid the gpl < 1257130546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, what will be gpl'd that i ship... linux and... < 1257130549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. .. < 1257130555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's it < 1257130561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM is GPL compatible, but I don't know the exact details < 1257130564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc there will be gpl'd packages available, talking about default distribution) < 1257130581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay, linux and vim then < 1257130593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— I'd prefer to ship a better vi clone than vim but they all kinda suck < 1257130596 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is dual licensed, I think (artistic and GPL) < 1257130599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least vim isn't retarded about being traditional < 1257130605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elvis? XVI? VILE? < 1257130606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking at you, http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ < 1257130616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the same guy as the heirloom tools incidentally) < 1257130627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elvis is unmaintained and shit, wait, i just addressed all of them :P < 1257130628 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi < 1257130647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi is basically the same as http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ < 1257130652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nvi is a reimplementation < 1257130661 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like VILE, personally, but Elvis is okay too, XVI is a little too spartan < 1257130662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ex-vi is the real deal < 1257130672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vile isn't a vi clone anyway < 1257130678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's emacsy vi < 1257130681 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, NVI is a clean-room reimplementation that is 8-bit clean, full undo, tab completion, etc. < 1257130699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but VILE does a lot of stuff normal vi does while keeping most "finger feel" < 1257130728 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi is BSD, by the way < 1257130733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see, anyway < 1257130743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll just ship plan9port's acme :))) < 1257130745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah) < 1257130759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ship some 9base tools though, maybe even the whole thing < 1257130768 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e3vi ? < 1257130777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, it's not surprising that you've got non-GPL'd stuff as the default distribution. < 1257130778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plan9port fork that just has minimal stuff, no plan9 gui tools or whatever; rc, awk, sed, a few plan9 libs etc) < 1257130780 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmmm, can't remember what license) < 1257130791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I might use the libutf included for osme stuff < 1257130793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some < 1257130801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original, and best, unicode+utf-8 library < 1257130819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first implementation of utf-8, right after they invented it) < 1257130822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the nonsuck out there is pretty much BSD. < 1257130828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257130834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1257130840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes in all shapes and sizes :-) < 1257130850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really doesn't < 1257130853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good and bad stuff exists in everything < 1257130866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes someone sane to produce software that doesn't suck, or at least sanely insane < 1257130868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :license is arbitrary < 1257130869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's GNU stuff that at least functions correctly, and there's old proprietary UNIX stuff that has crazy amounts of buffer overflows) < 1257130871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane people don't use the gpl < 1257130903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mindset someone requires to use the gpl (authoritarian, paranoia, conspiratorial anti-corporatism, ...) is the kind of mindset that produces bad software < 1257130907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially authoritarianism) < 1257130907 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even MS (rarely) uses the GPL (for that tiny bit of driver code they wrote recently) < 1257130918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: and? MS stuff sucks < 1257130918 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most people consider them "most insane of all" !! < 1257130934 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 99% of their stuff ain't GPL, so ... how can it suck? ;-) < 1257130935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple exclamation marks. a sure sign of madness < 1257130940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: fallacy < 1257130948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most non-suck isn't GPL != most non-GPL isn't suck < 1257130961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, that's like a third grader's logical error < 1257130966 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but you'd think that the company with the most money could hire the best talent, and yet that isn't true either < 1257130975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can and do, ms people are smart < 1257130978 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they shun the GPL yet still "suck" < 1257130980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that they can't manage them < 1257130980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no < 1257130988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes. < 1257130997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in my experience < 1257131000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise, Rugxulo, that the inventors of unix worked for ms? < 1257131004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of them at least < 1257131006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ritchie iirc < 1257131014 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1257131021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i forget who it was < 1257131023 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they hired the VMS dude and owned Xenix for a while < 1257131029 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave Cutler? < 1257131034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA no < 1257131041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cutler is a moron who hates unix and spreads fud about it < 1257131061 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hates Windows too < 1257131067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't, he loves NT < 1257131070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anymore < 1257131079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did he change his mind? exciting. < 1257131096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, yes, some MS people are smart. the reason they don't have as many is because they manage the smart people terribly < 1257131100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so smart people avoid them < 1257131107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're perfectly capable of hiring them < 1257131135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he stopped working for them after NT 4.0 (from what I heard) < 1257131148 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just kept him quiet about his differences and continued without him < 1257131162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ... he still works at microsoft dude < 1257131165 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MS is too keen to advertise instead of actually fixing things < 1257131171 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't, at least not last I heard < 1257131174 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Zippo doesn't work there anymore < 1257131183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"David Cutler at work on Windows Azure", picture, wikipedia < 1257131184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Community Technology Preview was given to Professional Developers Conference 2008 attendees.[3] This preview is set to expire in the 2nd quarter of 2009.[citation needed] < 1257131197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the 2008 Professional Developers Conference, Microsoft announced Azure Services Platform, a cloud-based operating system which Microsoft is developing. During the conference keynote, Cutler was mentioned as a lead developer on the project, along with Amitabh Srivastava.[3] < 1257131201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was officially involved with the Windows XP Pro 64-bit and Windows Server 2003 SP1 64-bit releases, as well as Windows Vista. He moved to working on Microsoft's Live Platform in August 2006. Dave Cutler was awarded the prestigious status of Technical Fellow at Microsoft. < 1257131215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/techfellow/Cutler/default.mspx < 1257131229 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds different from what I read, but what do I know? :-P < 1257131252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems ksh doesn't support tab completion or whatever, begging the question "why use this over rc?" < 1257131268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Man... < 1257131271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only reason not to use rc is because terminals are dumb and rc only does what it shhould (be a shell) < 1257131273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite awful. < 1257131274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*should < 1257131282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as a hack, use a shitty shell that oversteps its boundaries < 1257131286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: define "that" < 1257131291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No tab completion? < 1257131293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1257131358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?? pdksh supports tab completion < 1257131369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cuz i installed it and i see no tabs bein' completed < 1257131374 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, here's what I read on Wikipedia for Cutler (discussion page, heh, not exactly official): < 1257131376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the manpage < 1257131376 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cutler 'left' Microsoft in the spring of 1996. Oh yes he's 'officially' on board but that's only because Microsoft don't want to lose his name. Instead they've helped finance Cutler's race car passion. As Cutler himself said of the deal: 'it keeps me from pissing all over them'. By the time of the Denver DC the word was getting out and Microsofties were whispering in panic 'Dave is gone! Dave is gone!' —Preceding unsigned com < 1257131377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 90.5.7.87 (talk • contribs) 20:47, August 31, 2008" < 1257131395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiracy theories; exciting < 1257131448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Interactive Input Line Editing < 1257131448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The shell supports three modes of reading command lines from a tty in < 1257131449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : an interactive session. Which is used is controlled by the emacs, < 1257131452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems promising < 1257131555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can edit line but not tab < 1257131567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vi-tabcomplete In vi command line editing, do < 1257131567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : command / file name completion < 1257131568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : when tab (^I) is entered in < 1257131568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : insert mode. < 1257131569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be close < 1257131581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And sorry but I have first hand information that regardless of where he was officially moved he wasn't there anymore. He got sick and tired of them, did a deal to stay silent, and left. He turns up for dos and MS want his name around but he is definitely out of the picture by the spring of 1996. And that's first hand info - from the former developers on his team right outside the Tribe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90 < 1257131581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(talk • contribs) 20:47, August 31, 2008" < 1257131662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1257131664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got completion working < 1257131698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257131698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257131700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick in ~/.kshrc < 1257131709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hm < 1257131711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it read .kshrc < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILES < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~/.profile < 1257131736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/profile < 1257131737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/suid_profile < 1257131737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1257131839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, those are the two commands you need < 1257131994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this seems to "work" < 1257131999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd much prefer rc, but... < 1257132179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to refine my C code. < 1257132342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BTW, don't blame me for this hack; it's in the original ksh." < 1257132494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')$ " < 1257132613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the code to change title of xterm again? < 1257132744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity my code for that is in zsh... < 1257132937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257132937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')" < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title=$(printf "\r\r\r\e]0;$dir\a\r") < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="$title$dir$ " < 1257132938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset dir title < 1257132940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD < 1257132980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the r stuff works properly < 1257132981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -o emacs < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind ^I=complete-list < 1257132990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir="\$(pwd | sed 's@^$HOME@~@')" < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title=$(printf "\e]0;$dir\a") < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS1="$title$dir$ " < 1257132991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset dir title < 1257133036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ $0 = ksh ]; then . ~/.kshrc; fi < 1257133036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ~/.profile < 1257133046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're done. < 1257133081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257133083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksh does ## < 1257133143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm what's the ${##} type thing to replace... < 1257133152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, rc is so much simpler than all of this b u l l s h i t < 1257133186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanna know how you get shit in the title in rc? < 1257133187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn prompt { printf '\e]0;'^`{pwd}^'\a' } < 1257133191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't do the replacement < 1257133199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know how fucking easy it is to do the replacement? < 1257133220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn prompt { printf '\e]0;'^`{pwd | sed "s@^$HOME@~@"}^'\a' } < 1257133226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no " quotes < 1257133227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1257133228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1257133229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial shit < 1257133233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn these shells < 1257133316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, why do people truncate history files? < 1257133428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257133435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh finally < 1257133438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have cracked it < 1257133501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1257133502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1257133532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i will get this working < 1257133867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ism't there a rlwrap that keeps track of cwd < 1257133869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't < 1257134118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1257135013 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-46-194.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1257135382 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257135385 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257135413 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good repartition of memory cycles for a system < 1257135479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers writing a fortran compiler for no reason < 1257135486 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you have 400 memory cycles per scanline (in 320x240 @ 60fps) to share between video hardware, cpu and sound < 1257135507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs 60fps, do 640x480 @ 30fps < 1257135531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257135543 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30fps is not NTSC or VGA compatible < 1257135546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact I'd go for 1280x960 @ 15fps unless i was going to do fun demosceney stuff, but eh; no lcds really support that res) < 1257135550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: touché < 1257135561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do 24fps then :-P or 29.999997 or whatever ntsc is < 1257135573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 320x240 is a bit low w imo < 1257135576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*low imo < 1257135592 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA refuses to display anything that had a horiz refresh of less than 30khz < 1257135602 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use line doubling < 1257135621 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact that's what vga does for low resolution modes) < 1257135634 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmmmm < 1257135648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can do fun graphics at 320x240, but text will be ugly or limited < 1257135649 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the use < 1257135665 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah text definitely benefits from 640x480 < 1257135672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30fps is enough for all the fast-paced FPS games out there /shrug < 1257135677 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean set the video output at 30Hz, and then display each frame twice at 60Hz < 1257135678 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257135686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work, yep < 1257135725 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you display 640x480 on a TV, you have to make it interlaced though < 1257135746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just use a crt < 1257135748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-tv) < 1257135756 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that would make it VGA < 1257135765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess vga is too boringly conventional :-D < 1257135771 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afaik a CRT accepts most stuff you throw at it < 1257135775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257135778 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually not bad < 1257135779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interlacing would work fine though < 1257135788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257135793 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the horiz rate has to be at least 30khz < 1257135793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the artifacts :-P < 1257135799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1257135854 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence 320x240 (which is actually 320x480 with each line displayed twice) and 640x480 < 1257135899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supporting a TV is cool, though... but interlacing artifacts would ruin the coolness of hooking up an fpga to a TV and seeing a spinning cube :) < 1257135920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do 576i! < 1257135933 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1257135937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i < 1257135940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pal tv resolution < 1257135957 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no device that would show it < 1257135960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you canucks use < 1257135962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntsc? < 1257135964 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257135979 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yankeevision < 1257136008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low resolution might not be so bad since it's a crt tv < 1257136012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they basically antialiase for you ;-) < 1257136040 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to base it on VGA timing < 1257136050 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically VGA 640x480 < 1257136128 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if LCDs will accept 524 scanline 640x480 or if they want 525 scanlines < 1257136141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't vga 640x480 interlacing on a tv < 1257136153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, LCDs just accept their native resolution. anything else is acceptable < 1257136155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just scale it to shit < 1257136173 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno how LCDs handle freaky hacked VGA modes < 1257136184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1257136205 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I know is that they guess the horiz resolution from the # of lines < 1257136228 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically they guess 640x350, 720x400 and 640x480 < 1257136271 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately that wrecks 640x400 modes (80x50 text mode and 320x200) < 1257136421 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't normal text modes 9 pixels wide per character cell? < 1257136449 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are both 8 pixel and 9 pixel modes! < 1257136460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way too small to actually read though :P < 1257136487 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact VGA has 2 different clock crystals, one for 8 pixel mode (640x) and one for 9 pixel mode (720x) < 1257136509 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there also 16 pixel mode? < 1257136517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each glyph must be 8x20 for 640x480 80x24 text mode < 1257136573 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 9 pixel mode it generates an extra pixel, usually black, without any charset data < 1257136583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by glyph i mean including spaciing < 1257136585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spacing < 1257136588 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's a kinda weird mode < 1257136596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assuming one pixel character separation, < 1257136600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two pixel line separation < 1257136608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chars themselves would be 7x18 < 1257136610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1257136620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257136628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257136642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: it's weird, but it's also fun and unconventional :P < 1257136655 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more common is 640x350 80x25 with 8x14 chars, 720x400 80x25 with 8+1x16 chars < 1257136673 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x400 80x50 with 8x8 :D < 1257136681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 80x24 is more common than 80x25 :-P < 1257136686 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on PC! < 1257136691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define pc < 1257136694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x24 is universal on unix < 1257136695 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM PC < 1257136703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah :-P < 1257136715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to imitate the PC! < 1257136762 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done some ZZT and Megazeux games, the systems are based on 80x25 < 1257136770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, square chars are silly :-P < 1257136784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english isn't square! < 1257136790 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's because our alphabet is narrow yeah :D < 1257136821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x12 might be good; gives you 80x40 < 1257136831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an *excellent* size for English text < 1257136853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and programming...) < 1257136886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a bit TOO narrow though < 1257136900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1257136905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use two pixels at bottom or top for line spacing < 1257136907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one for char spacing < 1257136915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you can use them for characters that don't quite fit...) < 1257136923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it isn't quite as narrow but the glyphs are still 8x12 < 1257136932 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1257136933 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have my VGA tweaking program ready to use :D < 1257136933 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1257136977 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gameprogrammer.com/demos/tweak16b.zip <- a good old classic vga tweaking program some dude wrote in 1993 < 1257137093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing non-cookie-cutter pixel fonts is hard < 1257137100 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the monitor can definitely cope with a missing vga line or two :D < 1257137117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x12 would be cool to serif < 1257137117 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I drew a couple in megazeux's char editor < 1257137124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays with it < 1257137130 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(8x14 of course since that's what megazeux uses) < 1257137166 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best trick with text mode fonts is to keep using 2 pixel wide vertical lines < 1257137340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that could make this look less like an outline, yeah < 1257137396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1257137400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's enough variation to do bold here < 1257137403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this size < 1257137730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: 7x12 might be better for english text, actually (regular glyph size 6x10 due to spacing) < 1257137745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although... hmm < 1257137746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1257137753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just that "c" looks a bit stretched) < 1257137834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257137844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: does 640x480 on a tv have square pixels? < 1257137855 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on TVs? < 1257137858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1257137869 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On TVs it's probably something like "who knows" < 1257137889 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if TVs eat the top and bottom 8 lines < 1257137897 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly yes < 1257137957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how the pixels look different when you zoom out < 1257137964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most CRTs are so crappy as to smooth out any oddities anyway :D < 1257137981 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ZSNES seems to output 256x224 < 1257138009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow — 640x480 is a lot with 8x12 characters! (7x10 regular glyphs yada yada yada) < 1257138028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could fit a novel onto one screen :P < 1257138046 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257138068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x40 doesn't seem much, but it looks like it... < 1257138110 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many apps use 80x50 < 1257138162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how you have to do slightly different m etrics to get bold characters to have the same shape as regular ones. < 1257138180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metrics < 1257138216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't people do more serifed pixel fonts? < 1257138230 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I like sans serif :D < 1257138241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I, but serif pixel fonts look nice < 1257138248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the serifs are so tiny, it's just like adding some spice to it < 1257138258 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a style yeah < 1257138276 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans serif is a bit more stylistically neutral < 1257138319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all sans serif pixel fonts look the same :) < 1257138334 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends if you're creative :D < 1257138415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well definitely my, what was it, 3x4 glyphs (always 1px spacing around it, so 4x5 if you want ot be pedantic) were pretty unique and yet the same... < 1257138424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unique because I had to contort lots of characters in fun ways, the same because, well < 1257138438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many ways to draw the alphabet, numbers and some punctuation at that size < 1257138445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i did have two sets of numbers, lowercase and uppercase < 1257138448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went with the corresponding alphabet < 1257138449 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest 8 pixel wide < 1257138458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every single one was different < 1257138468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: glyph or char (spacing) < 1257138479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glyph w/o spacing char w/ < 1257138510 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including spacing, so 7 pixel of data < 1257138528 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you also use the spacing pixels! < 1257138550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you can use them for e.g. accents < 1257138553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or punctuation < 1257138555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and descenders < 1257138562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ascenders it's generally best to leave the normal spacing) < 1257138600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I'm doing now is 7x10 usual glyph, 8x12 size < 1257138610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your suggestion has been heeded :-P < 1257138638 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you need space for descencers, accents over capital letters < 1257138640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1257138643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257138653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a whole two vertical pixels available for descenders :-P < 1257138656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the vertical spacing at the bottom) < 1257138689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real space for accents though :-D < 1257138690 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 8x14 fonts normally have 2 space lines at the top and 3 at the bottom < 1257138704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1257138713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7x10 glyphs are just enough to be able to design :P < 1257138722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e is really hard though < 1257138747 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, you don't have to squeeze it < 1257138754 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to, say, m < 1257138759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to get it looking like my other chars < 1257138761 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sometimes hard: s < 1257138764 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And T < 1257138772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1257138781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: aah s was almost impossible in my 3x4-glyph font < 1257138785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Z vs 2 < 1257138792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and z vs Z < 1257138799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(capital letter = lowercase letter height for space) < 1257138819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I used an optical illusion to make it look like z was like a small zeta even though it had no curve :P < 1257138820 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most snes games use sans serif < 1257138833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the same to do N < 1257138839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to optical illusion the slant < 1257138957 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't make it into a typewriter font :D < 1257139010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, why? < 1257139073 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I always thought courrier looked awful :D < 1257139107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, it does < 1257139110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate courier < 1257139174 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some games have chinese calligraphy imitation fonts < 1257139198 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's hard to shoehorn latin letters into chinese calligraphy due to the kind of shape they use :D < 1257139208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257139336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bold letters look smaller < 1257139343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are, i guess, they're shorter generally, the lowercase parts < 1257139346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just so they don't look weird < 1257139490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh f is a challenge < 1257139593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success, I think < 1257139599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks a bit weird, but oho well < 1257139603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very serif < 1257139722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use this as a terminal font < 1257140056 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257140093 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's this idea that sans serif is closer to a "pure" version of the letters < 1257140113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, but it also reflects why sans serif pixel fonts almost all look identical < 1257140127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to express the purest form in such constraints, there's almost a "right way" to do it < 1257140129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do it < 1257140149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at bigger sizes there's more ambiguity, so to speak, so you can have unique sans serif typefaces < 1257140158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but going smaller, serifs really help to distinguish it < 1257140471 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoo yeah < 1257140477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1257140481 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found the vga 28mhz clock bit < 1257140524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, fucking i < 1257140528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make i span 7 chars < 1257140530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels < 1257140534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, and you have a shitload of spacing < 1257140536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid monospace < 1257140608 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that's monospace < 1257140615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257140618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monospace is pretty silly. < 1257140631 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can get it to 4 pixels wide with serif < 1257140638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257140640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monospace isn't silly :D < 1257140646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is < 1257140675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how four pixels < 1257140676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 3 < 1257141724 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most modes that would be neat flat out don't work < 1257141739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1257141744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modes as in text modes or < 1257141751 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga modes < 1257141754 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257141804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which neat ones don't work? < 1257141849 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x40 text mode 640x480 with 8x12 chars DOES work though :D < 1257141861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^__^ < 1257141864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best mode there is! < 1257141878 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that aren't 320x or 360x (or 640x or 720x for 16 color and text modes) < 1257141892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x48 might be cooler tho < 1257141901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can have two unix terminals at once < 1257141907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x50 for PC < 1257141911 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x48 is really easy to hack < 1257141926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, too easy < 1257141937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to do 8x10 < 1257141938 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically character height is free < 1257141950 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has no effect on monitor timing < 1257141960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x12 is better for text, anyway, so losing a few lines is no big deal < 1257141976 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monitor timing is the stupid part where the monitor gets finnicky and refuses your mode < 1257141983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257141994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what's the lowest res and highest timing you ca n d o < 1257141995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can do < 1257141998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can do < 1257142054 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA is not meant for modes other than x350, x400 and x480 although normally modes with less lines actually do work < 1257142074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try :D < 1257142210 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what works is modes with faster frame rates and more lines, except VGA has a fixed clock so none of these modes are practical outside SVGA < 1257142669 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257143517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of the 51 system calls present in Plan 9, we have written equivalents of the most essential ones, allowing simple executables like cat, sed, grep and even the Plan 9 C compiler, 8c to run unmodified on Linux." —Glendix < 1257143520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could reuse the c compiler < 1257143521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah) < 1257143524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too standards incompliant < 1257143537 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257143877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/technology/computers/7869585-man-using-trackball.php?id=7869585 hypnotic < 1257144183 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257144812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The way it was characterized politically, you had copyright, which is what the big companies use to lock everything up; you had copyleft, which is free software's way of making sure they can't lock it up; and then Berkeley had what we called 'copycenter', which is 'take it down to the copy center and make as many copies as you want.'" — Kirk McKusick, BSDCon 1999 < 1257144901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Controversial decisions are often made differently from OpenBSD; for instance, there won't be any support for SMP in MirOS." let me know how that works out for you < 1257145374 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257145467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1257145472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternative to llvm/clang? mayhaps < 1257145566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.zentus.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/os/linux/ccconfig.h?rev=1.16;content-type=text%2Fplain Repeat after me! Linux! Is! Not! ELF! < 1257147443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to use CVS as a DVCS < 1257147444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA < 1257147905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was surprisingly easy < 1257148119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew, I even got pulling and pushing for free < 1257148128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel dirty now (← DO NOT TAKE THESE TWO LINES OUT OF CONTEXT) < 1257148161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/new_thinkpad_1.jpg < 1257148163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped < 1257148167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This image is photoshopped or a ripoff < 1257148176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god AnMaster, you are so lucky to have bought yours already < 1257148178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1257148338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaaaaaaait, it looks 4:3 < 1257148341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a shop. < 1257148564 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257148588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257148799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257148800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257149027 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul[AFK] < 1257149375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C compiler that compiles in less than a minute. Refreshing. < 1257149670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? < 1257149872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/, an update of the old pcc. BSD licensed. < 1257149878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, PCC. < 1257149883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny, fast. Good platform support. Good GCC compatibility. < 1257149888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs are eyeing it to replace GCC eventually. < 1257149896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also compiles very quickly. < 1257149902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, compiles code you give to it) < 1257149903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C compiler that doesn't have more abstraction layers than frontends. :P < 1257149908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler itself compiles in less than a minute < 1257149910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :-D < 1257149923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it compile itself < 1257149973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it doesn't have -Os yet < 1257149987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but methinks this may be a contender for the main compiler < 1257149993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimalist, well-coded, well-licensed, and fast. < 1257150011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YACC The `Yet Another C Compiler' implementation to use." < 1257150016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typo in autoconf?! < 1257150028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Man. < 1257150034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1257150047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought autoconf was a well-implemented bad idea, rather than a typo'd one. :P < 1257150056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope someone changed that in some pcc file, because oh my word. < 1257150059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Microwerks? SERIOUSLY? < 1257150061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257150063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include//stdarg.h:8: error: "This header only supports __MWERKS__." < 1257150063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Microwerks? SERIOUSLY? < 1257150073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(__GNUC__) < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include_next < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#elif defined(__MWERKS__) < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "mw_stdarg.h" < 1257150074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1257150075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#error "This header only supports __MWERKS__." < 1257150076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1257150081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalms* < 1257150110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1257150117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, stdargs.h only works with gcc. Paste the following lines into /usr/local/lib/pcc/stdarg.h: < 1257150120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks pcc website < 1257150121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastes < 1257150135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does the obvious: < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifndef _STDARG_H_ < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _STDARG_H_ < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_list char * < 1257150137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _VA_LIST < 1257150138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_start(ap, last) __builtin_stdarg_start((ap), last) < 1257150138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_arg(ap, type) __builtin_va_arg((ap), type) < 1257150140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_end(ap) __builtin_va_end((ap)) < 1257150142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define va_copy(dest, src) __builtin_va_copy((dest), (src)) < 1257150144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1257150146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, flood. Sorry. < 1257150166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld whines a lot about < 1257150167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld warning: can't find atom for N_GSYM stabs _stublist:G1 in compat.o < 1257150173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we get the error < 1257150176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc -DGCC_COMPAT -DPCC_DEBUG -Dos_darwin -Dmach_i386 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -I. -I../.. -I../../mip -I../../arch/i386 -I../../os/darwin -g -Wall -Wmissing-prototypes -Wstrict-prototypes -Wshadow -Wsign-compare -Wtruncate -c -o pftn.o pftn.c < 1257150176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pftn.c, line 1856: compiler error: Cannot generate code, node 0x839b70 op OREG < 1257150178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before that? < 1257150179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn that flew. < 1257150215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (i = 0, base = tylnk.next; base; base = base->next, i++) < 1257150215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a[i] = base->df; < 1257150221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd place to fail (the second line, I think) < 1257152153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's in fact the previous line. < 1257152252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/new_thinkpad_1.jpg <-- huh < 1257152260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably either photoshopped or a fake. < 1257152265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ripoff fake that is) < 1257152266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1257152275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially note that stretched thinkpad logo≥ < 1257152275 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's about it < 1257152277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logo. < 1257152284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: it's an abomination against thinkpads < 1257152288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed < 1257152290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- chiclet keyboard (seriously!!) < 1257152291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- white shell < 1257152297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- ugh, just so ugly < 1257152305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chiclet keyboard? < 1257152310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1257152311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look carefully < 1257152313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are separated < 1257152315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think macbook keyboard < 1257152317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sony vaio < 1257152322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh indeed < 1257152328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also shallower than most laptop keyboards < 1257152338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure lenovo would never do this though < 1257152342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless to the sl line, which sucks anyway < 1257152363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl line? < 1257152374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpad SL. < 1257152381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consumer"; glossy, iirc 16:9 not sure though < 1257152385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257152387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internals are not actually thinkpad internals. < 1257152391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(taken from ideapad or something) < 1257152400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles ideapad < 1257152409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consumer" lenovo notebooks < 1257152413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257152450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link me to latest cfunge code drop or bzr or whatever < 1257152455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna try and compile it with pcc :) < 1257152502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't compile with pcc. at least didn't last I tried. < 1257152508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new pcc or old. < 1257152511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc failing at C99 < 1257152515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been improved. < 1257152515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about half a year ago? < 1257152516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :massively < 1257152519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1257152525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. sec for code < 1257152526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bsdfund.org/projects/pcc/ < 1257152530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see "improved c99 functionality". < 1257152551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr branch lp:cfunge/trunk < 1257152594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Support BSD with every purchase! Every time you use the BSD Fund Visa, a small donation is made to BSD Fund to support its programs." < 1257152594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires some dedication... < 1257152634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk < 1257152646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is a "get a tarball" link there somewhere < 1257152649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see one though < 1257152657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already branched. < 1257152669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake seems happy with pcc so far, using ccmake. < 1257152689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default settings are fine to build a full cfunge, yep? < 1257152712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, should be. Not sure if cmake is likely to mess something up there < 1257152720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pcc I mean < 1257152721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time make go < 1257152730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/lib/genx/genx.c.o < 1257152734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Users/ehird/Downloads/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c, line 848: compiler error: Cannot generate code, node 0x81c490 op >> < 1257152738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventful build, that. < 1257152742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257152747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: This is probably due to me being on OS X. < 1257152753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want I should try it in my Arch VM? < 1257152754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that file isn't even very C99ish < 1257152759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See note about OS X. < 1257152775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. feel free to. I tried it under FreeBSD iirc < 1257152835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Command substitution was something else I added because that gives you very general mechanism to do string processing; it allows you to get strings back from commands and use them as the text of the script as if you had typed it directly. I think this was a new idea that I, at least, had not seen in scripting languages, except perhaps LISP." < 1257152835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you Bourne, it was a really terrible idae. < 1257152836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1257152864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1257152868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean `` < 1257152879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and later on $() ) < 1257152881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to put quotes everywhere so that it ends up just like a regular programming language < 1257152882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very useful < 1257152906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay good point < 1257152907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all uses of it in non-quoted ways apart from to send as arguments (like python *foo) are harmful hacks because the shell is crippled < 1257152933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo pacman -S bzr cvs" < 1257152961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs? < 1257152965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pcc. < 1257152975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also: "Moreover - although the v7 shell is written in C - Bourne took advantage of some macros[1] to give the C source code an ALGOL 68 flavor." < 1257152980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically this guy is totally crazy. < 1257152994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Nobody really knows what the Bourne shell's grammar is. Even examination of the source code is little help." —Tom Duff) < 1257153009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1257153015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/main.c.html < 1257153021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feast your eyes upon the macroed horror!!!! < 1257153031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IF (flags&prompt) ANDF standin->fstak==0 ANDF !eof < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THEN IF mailnod.namval < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF stat(mailnod.namval,&statb)>=0 ANDF statb.st_size < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF (statb.st_mtime != mailtime) < 1257153032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ANDF mailtime < 1257153033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THEN prs(mailmsg) < 1257153034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FI < 1257153066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257153090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, pcc supports pdp11. < 1257153090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UFD output = 2; < 1257153090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOCAL BOOL beenhere = FALSE; < 1257153091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257153103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pdp10. < 1257153135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but ksh isn't this bad < 1257153139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik? < 1257153146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdksh probably isn't so bad. < 1257153157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still erring on the side of rc for the shell < 1257153176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, who was that "Tom Duff" you mentioned (invokes aisness) < 1257153190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Duff. he also has an account on our wiki, and that picture is horrible < 1257153211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: duff device < 1257153213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1257153216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that duff < 1257153223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/papers/gfx/pjw.ps.17761.gif < 1257153226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better picture :-P < 1257153238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's "pjw" < 1257153249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong person < 1257153250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257153253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257153297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, pcc doesn't do C++. < 1257153307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not an issue is it? < 1257153311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use clang < 1257153317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it becomes stable for c++ < 1257153322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do WebKit. < 1257153326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking clangged WebKit with pcc'd surf, though? < 1257153329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds risky. < 1257153339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not use clang for everything? < 1257153347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from kernel < 1257153348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is simpler, faster. < 1257153352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't supported yet iirc < 1257153385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering purchasing a trackball < 1257153402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... i think i've retarded my thumbs using a mouse for so lnog < 1257153405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long < 1257153406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1257153413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulating trackball motion is uncomfortable < 1257153445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION make clean, reconfigure w— < 1257153449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot to compile the libraries first < 1257153457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc-libs go go go < 1257153486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1257153546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can too create executables! < 1257153565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1257153571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would help if pcc was in my path, ehehehehe... < 1257153577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, turned into MKRY there. < 1257153617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you ever used a trackball? < 1257153633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. found it quite awkward. Only very temporarily < 1257153641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when helping someone having one with a computer issue. < 1257153643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some years ago < 1257153643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumb or finger? < 1257153651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. trackball in middle or to the side < 1257153656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the ball was on the side < 1257153682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncomfortable just after your thumb (bottom of your hand), would you say? That's what I'm getting when attempting it in thin air < 1257153690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lifting up motion, so to speak. < 1257153697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, pcc compiles itself. < 1257153698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, The fact that it was a left hand edition didn't help < 1257153704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1257153706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that'd do it. < 1257153719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand pcc is replaced by a pcc compiled by itself YO DAWG < 1257153721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I actually use mouse quite well with either hand < 1257153749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a symetric mouse for that reason < 1257153902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any luck with cfunge? < 1257153905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc cannot compile a simple test program, sweet < 1257153914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ld: cannot find -lc" < 1257153922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1257153930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257153934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be libc < 1257153939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gathered < 1257153954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6 exists. < 1257154085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well then. I can't help you at all < 1257154090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue with pcc < 1257154099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ld, not pcc. < 1257154157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does gcc work? < 1257154170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; no. < 1257154177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base-devel is all you need in arch, right? < 1257154177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1257154201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, uh. maybe. not 100% sure. I know it works on my arch system for sure < 1257154207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was so long ago I set it up < 1257154243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION upgrades glibc < 1257154259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand it works < 1257154273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1257154277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with pcc it doesn't. < 1257154335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait if gcc didn't work. How comes you could compile pcc at all? < 1257154349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, don't ask me. < 1257154361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1257154376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe only pcc is adding -lc, and I forgot to rm -rf before ccmaking without CC=pcc. < 1257154378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it used pcc again. < 1257154383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But pcc could compile pcc. < 1257154386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So cmake is fucking up. < 1257154410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possible. Or pcc is having issues with one of the cmake tests < 1257154418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257154420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if cmake works with gcc for cfunge < 1257154420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ld. < 1257154426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-lc" is wrong, whyever it's being added. < 1257154430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. It does. < 1257154433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1257154435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts configuring < 1257154437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly < 1257154449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then. if it passes the point where cmake fails pcc? < 1257154452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm < 1257154499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just that I know cfunge breaks some older cmake 2.6 versions. IIRC the interval [2.6, 2.6.3) < 1257154512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6-patch 4 < 1257154517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that 2.6.4? < 1257154526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah same thing. Just me being lazy < 1257154543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway it breaks it by throwing a syntax error during the configure thing < 1257154552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the cmake moduls < 1257154558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modules* < 1257154627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1257154649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also /usr/lib/libc.so < 1257154653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257154662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, run file on it < 1257154668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have a vague idea < 1257154676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII C program text?! < 1257154685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah a linker script < 1257154685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257154687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a gnu ld script < 1257154688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257154692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my ld is gnu... < 1257154704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, won't it use /lib/libc.so.6? < 1257154708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of that. < 1257154712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no fucking clue < 1257154718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should by that linker script < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use the shared library, but some functions are only in < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the static library, so try that secondarily. */ < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf64-x86-64) < 1257154727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GROUP ( /lib64/libc.so.6 /usr/lib64/libc_nonshared.a AS_NEEDED ( /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 ) ) < 1257154729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257154732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment fail < 1257154734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line was: < 1257154736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i have too < 1257154737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* GNU ld script < 1257154742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is on gentoo btw < 1257154777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be similar. maybe some diff in the /lib64 bit depending on how exactly the multilib stuff is done < 1257154791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if it is 32-bit) < 1257154799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, of course. < 1257154802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENABLE_64BIT is on. < 1257154815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that only affects size of funge cells < 1257154817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look in the retarded 64 directories — hey, another problem my distro doesn't have! :P < 1257154824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well it's 64 bit arch too < 1257154825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1257154837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is int32_t vs. int64_t for funge cells < 1257154840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257154841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all it does < 1257154841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine differs < 1257154847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf32-i386) < 1257154848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1257154849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no lib64s < 1257154852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONCLUSION < 1257154855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in cry's name < 1257154859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need some sort of < 1257154862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic-64bit-package < 1257154872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, is the distro 64-bit? < 1257154878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. < 1257154879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257154879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only has 32-bit arch handy < 1257154880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257154895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so confused... about everything... < 1257154906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nothing new there ;P < 1257154911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, a blind person who likes Python. < 1257154916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tab. Tab. print" < 1257154923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, joking? < 1257154927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, really < 1257154931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1257154935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... unexpected < 1257154936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I code with edbrowse, which is a derivitive of /bin/ed]] < 1257154939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore < 1257154942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the only option) < 1257154948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only option? how so? < 1257154961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole blind thing doesn't mesh with, you know, graphical editors. < 1257154966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257154970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including vi and all) < 1257154976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one of those braile ttys? < 1257154982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1257154984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for multiline text display < 1257154986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenreaders are easier. < 1257154990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make typing easier. < 1257154999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly. *imagines Microsoft sam reading lisp code* < 1257155010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of wish I could be temporarily blind, just so I could set up a tricked out text-to-speech environmeent. < 1257155013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*environment < 1257155130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, blindfold? < 1257155142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tempting! < 1257155158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines ehird's parents reaction on that < 1257155161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a whole fun avenue of interface design that I'm totally deprived of. Blind people have it easy! < 1257155169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I think I missed some ' there < 1257155214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know. Since you aren't deaf you could use it even when without a blindfold < 1257155238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd cheat by looking. < 1257155249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'd be boring. :P < 1257155251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1257155261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, turn off the monitor? < 1257155267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unplug it's cable < 1257155273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. imac < 1257155276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1257155313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, looking at something that doesn't change (assuming I blanked the screen). < 1257155315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would get boring. < 1257155374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um < 1257155420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remember to not eat any floating eyes to get the most realistic being-blind blindfold experience. < 1257155421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you manage to get pcc to work < 1257155442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1257155442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1257155445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just do -Wl,-v < 1257155446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1257155448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it -V < 1257155451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-V? < 1257155454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbose < 1257155461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ld -V < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.18 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Supported emulations: < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elf_x86_64 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elf_i386 < 1257155462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i386linux < 1257155464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not -V < 1257155466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try < 1257155468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld --help < 1257155473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just --verbose :P < 1257155485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--verbose it is < 1257155498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it is the same as -V < 1257155501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that dumps the entire default linker script it seems < 1257155505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1257155508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ld --verbose != ld -V < 1257155511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my tests < 1257155514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's dumping the script too < 1257155515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure with arguments < 1257155529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--verbose dumps linker script, -V doens't < 1257155532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't* < 1257155533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1257155545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -v, --version Print version information < 1257155545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -V Print version and emulation information < 1257155545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"attempt to open /usr/local/lib/pcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/0.9.9/lib//libc.a failed" < 1257155549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE STUPID AND YOU SHOULD FEEL STUPID < 1257155551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --verbose Output lots of information during link < 1257155566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pcc is doing something strange with the arguments? < 1257155574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1257155577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm pretty sure it must have passed the full path for that to happen < 1257155580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it should surely then look at the next directory < 1257155584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely -lc < 1257155629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257155632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it goes like: < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/binutils-bin/2.18/../../lib/libc.so failed < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/binutils-bin/2.18/../../lib/libc.a failed < 1257155637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib64/libc.so failed < 1257155639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1257155648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /usr/lib64/libc.so succeeded < 1257155648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opened script file /usr/lib64/libc.so < 1257155652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to open /lib64/libc.so.6 succeeded < 1257155657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib64/libc.so.6 < 1257155675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to get ld to tell me what arguments it'd getting? < 1257155765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm *looks* < 1257155779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1257155805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make ld a shell script that prints args then call the real ld < 1257155817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work at the very least < 1257155819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be my second choice. < 1257155821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just LD=echo < 1257155859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work uggh < 1257155860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh < 1257155913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strace < 1257155914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace it is always an option. < 1257155919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1257155921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah beat you to it! < 1257155921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rrrr, AnMaster's too fast. < 1257155921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE BEEN REVEALED < 1257155927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, fizzie: I KNEW YOU WERE THE SAME < 1257155932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is just major trolling me with AnMaster < 1257155937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you scoundrel! < 1257155942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've just stopped at "strace" without bothering with the trailing part. < 1257155943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you got that backwards < 1257155952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fizzie doesn't annoy me. < 1257155959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the whole point < 1257155963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to confuse you < 1257155967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep, man. < 1257155986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trolling by niceness < 1257156009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do that some more; it's devastating. < 1257156027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace + ncurses = LOL WUT < 1257156056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh is this in cmake? < 1257156061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cmake instad of ccmake < 1257156062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1257156064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did < 1257156067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set CC=pcc before < 1257156068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1257156070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1257156075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path to pcc if it isn't in path < 1257156090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and use the follow forks mode < 1257156099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it won't tell you anything useful < 1257156100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what flag's that < 1257156116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace -f < 1257156117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1257156124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f -- follow forks, -ff -- with output into separate files < 1257156124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-F -- attempt to follow vforks, -h -- print help message < 1257156136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee hueg spew to my console. < 1257156139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is for weenies. < 1257156163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, -o is often a good idea for strace too. < 1257156172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1257156179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in this case probably -ff < 1257156185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there will be lots of forks < 1257156214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do -f; you can grep a single file just as easily as multiple files. < 1257156225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1257156241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "attempt to open /usr/local/lib/pcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/0.9.9/lib//libc.a failed" <-- last solution: symlink that to the right file? < 1257156254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about no :P < 1257156262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw your tripplet would be different < 1257156266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no linux-gnu < 1257156267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripppppppppppppplet. < 1257156272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah. < 1257156276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice typo indeed < 1257156277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be i686-pc-linux-newlib. < 1257156284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: better trippplet < 1257156300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trippppy, man." < 1257156303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does the executable format go in a full whateverlet? < 1257156306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the arch? < 1257156348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? It's executing /usr/local/bin/ld. < 1257156362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is? < 1257156364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which uh, doesn't exist < 1257156368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does -f follow vforks? < 1257156372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1257156373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well < 1257156374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1257156375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need -F for that < 1257156378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's a vfork() here < 1257156380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1257156384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does -F follow fork()s or do i need both < 1257156389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" -F -- attempt to follow vforks, -h -- print help message" < 1257156392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure < 1257156394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe both < 1257156396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do both < 1257156408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the local one fails < 1257156410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes /bin < 1257156410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh wait < 1257156412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page: < 1257156413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then /usr/bin < 1257156414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -F This option is now obsolete and it has the same functionality as -f. < 1257156416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1257156417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1257156418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1257156421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1257156471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks for libc.so and .a in the pcc dir, then /usr/i686{...}/lib/libc.{so,a} < 1257156475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then local- libc.so < 1257156477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then local-libc.a < 1257156478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /lib < 1257156481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /usr/lib .so < 1257156488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which succeeds < 1257156491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finds the script < 1257156502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then goes t o /usr/lib/libc.so, um, again? whatever < 1257156519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes to /lib/libc.so.6 which works (!) < 1257156529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what causes the error? < 1257156540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it reads something into a buffer containing "the 'gets' function is dangerous[…]" xD < 1257156560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh well I don't use it. It probably just reads a section listing bad stuff. < 1257156562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes to /usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a, no fucking clue why < 1257156567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for warnings < 1257156573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a exists? < 1257156588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the local-libc is  < 1257156591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then local- libc.so < 1257156591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then local-libc.a < 1257156592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local < 1257156593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both? < 1257156596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257156601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it goes to /lib/ld-linux.so.2 < 1257156603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space one? < 1257156608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????? < 1257156609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, expected for parths < 1257156612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts* < 1257156620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime linker < 1257156623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go < 1257156625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257156626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably dlopen()ing < 1257156628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257156628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1257160101 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257161999 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257162149 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257163343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1257163359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1257163438 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257163532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers the differences between the ubuntu installer and the netbsd installer. < 1257163590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the netbsd installer is asking me more questions than even the ubuntu installer in expert mode on that alternative cd did.. < 1257163628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh like this: "Please choose the password cipher to use. NetBSD can be configured to use either the DES, MD5, Blowfish or SHA1 schemes." < 1257163685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'If you are upgrading and would like to keep configuration unchanged, choose the last option "do not change".' < 1257163697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why can't it check that itself btw...) < 1257164911 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-107-94.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257166405 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257166407 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257166574 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257168719 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1257168816 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257168819 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257169583 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257169730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite see how the installer is supposed to check whether the user wants to change something or not except by asking the user, like it's doing there. < 1257169880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, you have to select one of them on first install. So giving an option to not change on a new install is weird < 1257169884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is meant for upgrades < 1257169900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it also asks you if you *want* to see the root password < 1257169906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if you wouldn't < 1257169943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for cryptanalysts that want a can-I-break-it test where they can't cheat. (Okay, so not really.) < 1257169967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257170036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh; "2 November 2009: Notification of accepted applications" was promised, but I haven't received any emails yet. Certainly there's still many hours of 2 Nov remaining, but still. < 1257170308 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257170450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for what? < 1257170488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my thesis research funding thing. < 1257170522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257170544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you suspect you weren't accpted? < 1257170567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257170642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suspect otherwise, based on very unofficial hush-hush rumours from my super²visor (who was in the graduate school board meeting where these things were designed); I guess they're just lazy about official announcements. < 1257170665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A super²visor is a supervisor's supervisor, of course.) < 1257170690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/designed/decided/; thinko. < 1257171560 0 :Jaykul[AFK]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jaykul < 1257171633 0 :Jaykul!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257178474 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-199.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257178980 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-53-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257179524 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257179666 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257179932 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257181359 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257182725 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257182795 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-11.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257182929 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257183210 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-220-33.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257183604 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257183679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[125244.889404] ACPI Warning (nseval-0177): Excess arguments - method [BEEP] needs 1, found 2 [20080926] <-- huh? < 1257183734 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257183761 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1257183898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257184243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1, my reaction exactly < 1257184260 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, do you know what it says? < 1257184284 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1257184326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, I read it, if that is what you mean < 1257184329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I found it < 1257184331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-acpi-devel%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg01770.html < 1257184334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems relevant < 1257184360 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1257184413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however my thinkpad is not listed in that quirk table < 1257184424 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them? < 1257184451 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257184452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should. Day after tomorrow though. Bit busy currently. Large test tomorrow at university < 1257184455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1257185719 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257186458 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257186538 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257188493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, BasiliskII; http://zem.fi/~fis/mac.png < 1257188620 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257188748 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie < 1257188830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ppc? < 1257188857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1257188866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, BasiliskII does 68k only. < 1257188867 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ppc? what? < 1257188869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is that Unix thing? network share? < 1257188879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or some sort of "guest additions"? < 1257188880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257188928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a BasiliskII-internal "show this Unix path as a volume" thing; I'm not quite sure how it's done on the MacOS side; it needs File System Manager V1.2 installed, though. < 1257188956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1257188977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what rom < 1257188977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257189020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh... no comment, due to not exactly owning a 68k-suitable Mac right now. < 1257189035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer, you could google. You ask so many questions that we just end up ignoring them as it is < 1257189046 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257189047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want it too < 1257189053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257189065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only have a "newworld" mac < 1257189072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was from http://files.oldos.org/files/macdl/quadra650.rom < 1257189126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and system 7.5.3? < 1257189136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have a cd with that for PPC around < 1257189149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5.something I mean < 1257189173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5.3 from Apple's site. < 1257189187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they made it public? < 1257189188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257189193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/ < 1257189197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257189233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and http://w1.312.comhem.se/~u31227643/macboot.img.gz for a boot floppy image. < 1257189253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, smi.bin < 1257189256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hm < 1257189300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That macboot.img is the System 7.5 "Network Access Disk"; it's just that Apple's disk image of it is StuffIt'd with a reasonably new version, something macunpack on Linux doesn't read. Of course if you have a system that can run real StuffIt, that's not a problem. < 1257189308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting when removing the file from that last url < 1257189313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% I would trust it < 1257189320 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-50.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257189344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, depends. How new? I have one with OS 9... < 1257189353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a PITA however < 1257189358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how new, but that sounds new enough. < 1257189401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And .smi.bin is a very good format; you can use the hfsutils tools to get the MacBinary file into a HFS disk image, then attach that into whatever emulator you use for running MacOS, and there the .smi files are automagically mountable. (Of course you need something to boot from, like that network access disk image.) < 1257189631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no md5sums file < 1257189643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much to expect I guess < 1257189649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no resource fork issues? < 1257189675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not during the installation. Some problems with the provided Glider 4 zip, though. < 1257189682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1257189689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about glider pro? < 1257189692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work on that < 1257189695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it need ppc? < 1257189697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too new. :p < 1257189713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "too new, not interested". < 1257189716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, damn. So basically useless. tried that shoehorn? < 1257189724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257189725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257189734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257189734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it might be PPC-only, too, since it runs on OS X and OS 9 only. < 1257189743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not shoehorn < 1257189743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257189744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver < 1257189754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there are those "fat binaries" < 1257189760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both PPC and 68k < 1257189770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like the universal binaries these days < 1257189791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess. I don't have OS 9, anyway. < 1257189825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, except maybe as the "Classic" thing on the PPC OS X iBook. < 1257189856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, I could then just run it under OS X on the iBook, it's a supported system and all. Where's the fun in that? < 1257189933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would bring down fungot wouldn't it? < 1257189937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH WHERE IS fungot?! < 1257189950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The web server laptop is still not the iBook. < 1257189959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that Pentium M I pasted flags from the other day. < 1257189971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess fungot died in that Freenode messup too. < 1257190012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAW >>> ERROR :Closing Link: momus.zem.fi (Nick collision from syn.) <<< < 1257190015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? does it quit or reconnect in that case? < 1257190027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it dies if the SOCK 'R' operation fails. < 1257190042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so why didn't your service supervisor restart it? < 1257190050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daemontools or such < 1257190052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe inittab < 1257190056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't run it under one? < 1257190062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not :P < 1257190077 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257190078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like the obvious thing < 1257190105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if it is on ubuntu you could write an upstart script for it < 1257190172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relatively messy Debian virtual-machine thing, and I'm not interested enough to play with it that much; there's a lot to fix, the ignore settings still aren't persisted, for one thing. < 1257190244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests cfunge under netbsd < 1257190247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configuring atm < 1257190313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Glider 4 zip seems to have the resource forks saved in that OS X thing, with a __MACOSX folder containing ._foo files for each foo file. The "macstream" utility I have can do some sort of AppleShare → MacBinary conversion (then I could stuff the MacBinary data into the HFS disk with hfsutils), and as far as I know that's sort-of the AppleShare format, but it just says "Short file X" for the zero-length data files X, where all the real meat is in < 1257190313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the ._X resource fork. < 1257190361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that should prove that cfunge is portable. Because if it runs on netbsd it implies that it is likely it will run on all platforms netbsd supports (I know it works on sparc already and ppc, so endian issues would be unlikely). And if it runs on all platforms that netbsd supports it runs on everything < 1257190367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by reduction I believe? < 1257190374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1257190408 0 :serp!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257190423 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this channel? < 1257190435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language about esoteric programming languages < 1257190444 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o i c < 1257190446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm why isn't that in topic any more) < 1257190459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, you were going here for the other sort? < 1257190476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens every few month ;) < 1257190491 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I like esoteric languages < 1257190493 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your favorite? < 1257190502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge and intercal. < 1257190522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use genisoimage (mkisofs) to make a HFS CD image, I think that tool had a really crazy list of supported formats. That feels a bit silly though. < 1257190522 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like befunge < 1257190526 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard about intercal < 1257190547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal would the the archetypical one. Since it was basically the first one < 1257190550 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257190568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that it is on topic all the time.) < 1257190573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the channel I mean) < 1257190584 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1257190597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all easily distracted perhaps? < 1257190602 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1257190605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I got cfunge to compile under netbsd < 1257190611 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like esoteric languages < 1257190667 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it's the serp < 1257190681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you know him? < 1257190690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh .se. Hej < 1257190706 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hej! < 1257190706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp: som du ser finns det andra svenskar här också :D < 1257190715 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257190736 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :och en norrman (oerjan) som dyker upp ibland < 1257190881 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :är alla svenskar? < 1257190896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yay, http://zem.fi/~fis/glider.png < 1257190901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nee, typ bara vi och AnMaster < 1257190904 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1257190906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange. I had to use "ftp http://..." to download over http < 1257190907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this < 1257190915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just so completely stupid < 1257190925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Firefly too < 1257190945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I keep to English in order to ensure others can read it) < 1257190958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling OS X didn't include wget by default, but had a FTP client that could speak HTTP; at least somewhere I've done ftp http://... too. < 1257190968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thought it was BW? < 1257190979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, netbsd? < 1257190989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was that, I haven't used NetBSD in ages. < 1257191006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And there's a 16-color mode too. (It asked on startup whether I want to switch to 2-color or 16-color mode.) < 1257191029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cfunge turns out to work better on netbsd than on openbsd < 1257191030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"genisoimage -o ../glider_4.iso -hfs --osx-double ." got me a .iso image that had the correct resource forks. < 1257191050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1257191249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, where do you know serp from btw? < 1257191294 0 :ampleyfly!n=ampleyfl@fritz.lysator.liu.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257191302 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: from IRC < 1257191307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, seems cfunge passes mycology on netbsd too. Apart from some minor differences for FPSP/FPDP < 1257191311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, freenode? < 1257191318 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the same place as ampleyfly here, actually < 1257191321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: E says asin(2) is 0.000000 (actually complex: NaN) < 1257191327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c++.se on quakenet < 1257191329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect bug in netbsd asin here < 1257191335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I remember openbsd used to have the same bug < 1257191348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if I'd just suck less in that game, heh. < 1257191350 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ampleyfly and me made a esoteric language for a course. unfortunately the report is in Swedish. some examples are on the last page: http://www-und.ida.liu.se/~jakfr986/b4ch.pdf < 1257191406 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similair to befunge in 4 dimensions < 1257191423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1257191431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, there is already n-dimensional befunge < 1257191435 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :) < 1257191439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. more than 3D is uncommon but... < 1257191447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, so what befunge version did you use? 98? < 1257191461 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a befunge... we just borrowed some ideas frm there < 1257191467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serp, at university? Huh how did you get that past < 1257191487 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was for an intro course in lisp < 1257191493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vilken utbildning? < 1257191506 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :datateknik på LiTH < 1257191510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1257191533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dataingengör? Eller någon annan variant? < 1257191541 0 :serp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :civilingenjör < 1257191543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257191608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eget web utrymme huh < 1257191624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION undrar om man kan få det vid örebro universitet också < 1257191641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not providing a public_html-alike directory sounds pretty strange. < 1257191663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well maybe they do. But since it is windows mostly where the hell would you look < 1257191680 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\wwwroot! < 1257191697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, mmm unlikely :P < 1257191713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, well, that's another thing. For the record, our place gives students a "60 MB soft-quota, 100 MB hard-quota" public_html directory at users.tkk.fi or some-such. < 1257191742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hm, and I have 52M in use. That's curious.) < 1257191797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG format screenshots from the Eurovision Song Contest and everything else that's very study-related. < 1257191840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33M of PNG files containing different graphized versions of fungot, also. :p < 1257191840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh well. guess that saved me. < 1257191860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Er, were you in some sort of danger, then? < 1257191861 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " oh wow this is" < 1257191883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1257191883 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1257191887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1257191907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It resets to the irc style whenever it gets rebooted. < 1257191910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257191931 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257191947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, png? try advpng and optipng < 1257191952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should reduce large ones < 1257191958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1257191958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1257191967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but that is not the uni one is it? < 1257191988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's my own place. < 1257192057 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257192064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~htkallas/euroviisukoodi1.png is at the university web-space. < 1257192093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They showed that bit during the Eurovision contest between-songs-nonsense-videos one year. < 1257192112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It makes very little sense.) < 1257192128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also ...2.png and 3.png.) < 1257192182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh? < 1257192185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seriously? < 1257192208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The "|YLE|TV2" in the corner is the logo of the local broadcast company. < 1257192235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume someone was just told to "write some sort of code-like stuff here". < 1257192237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm did it look like it was a screenshot or a photo of a screen < 1257192261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean it isn't something like a bluescreen on a public display? < 1257192302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be explained by all those errors < 1257192305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the surroundings; I think they showed a guy at a keyboard, then focused on the monitor showing that bit. < 1257192319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, it isn't java < 1257192343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is quite a lot of whitespace < 1257192648 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they chose to write it in Eclipse, which highlights it all as erroneous < 1257192873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is perfectly valid (if useless) Plof. < 1257192908 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257192938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh? < 1257192949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it has if go to () ? < 1257192957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(third screenshot iirc) < 1257193374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social networking! http://twitter.com/big_ben_clock (Link courtesy of ineiros.) < 1257193470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what version of that emulator did you use? < 1257193486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever was packaged in Debian. Let's see. < 1257193504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9.20070407-4 according to the package. < 1257193512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257193521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Basilisk II V1.0 by Christian Bauer et al." according to the program itself. < 1257193528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to find anything newer than 2005 < 1257193551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257193555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newer than 2006 I meant < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : basilisk2 (0.9.20070407-1) unstable; urgency=low < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * New upstream CVS snapshot. < 1257193594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : + Bugfixes and improvements for 64bit host archs. < 1257193601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it's built from. < 1257193601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1257193921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what mac model id did you select in basilisk? < 1257193940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and CPU type? < 1257193959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quadra 900 (MacOS 8.x)" and 68040, since those were mentioned in a howto; seemed to work. < 1257193961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If is a function, and go and to could be perfectly valid expressions in context. < 1257193981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the third one is not valid Plof. < 1257193982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you compiled the JIT stuff in, 68040 and enabling JIT might be a good idea too. I didn't bother; it's fast enough anyway. < 1257193992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not without some crazy PlofBNF hacks, that is) < 1257194040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have tried sheepshaver too, but no-one seems to have bothered to add that to the Debian archives, and I really don't have *any* use for it, so I can't see why to compile it from sources. < 1257194040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1257194064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, BNF hacks? basically extending the compiler? < 1257194075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is cheating then < 1257194075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Yes. < 1257194086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or can you someone define it in the code? < 1257194087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257194090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257194091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to be fair, Plof is *designed to do that*. < 1257194098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need to recompile the compiler for it? < 1257194104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1257194115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1257194123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the RAM size? < 1257194137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses 512 could be too much < 1257194140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 64 megs should be enough for everyone. (I think that was visible in my screenshot too.) < 1257194148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grammer of Plof is defined inside of a Plof file. < 1257194172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, using a bootstrap grammer defined in bytecode) < 1257194254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie link to the tutorial? < 1257194278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If I can find the browser tab. < 1257194285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, history? < 1257194291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm rather confused now < 1257194402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://wiki.oldos.org/Mac/68kEmulator -- but it's pretty windows-oriented and I think at some parts also contradictory. I just adapted a bit. (Substituted that existing macboot.img for the whole stuffit+floppy-writing nonsense, and hfsutils command-line tools for HFVExplorer.) < 1257194425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where do I put in the floppy image to use < 1257194445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this system lacks a real floppy drive < 1257194445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/.basilisk_ii_prefs "floppy /path/to/image" < 1257194455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. < 1257194477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The configuration dialogs for the X version are a bit limited. < 1257194502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much < 1257194508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively run it with "BasiliskII --floppy /path/to" for a one-time use. < 1257194510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and cd? < 1257194520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cdrom", but do you need that for something? < 1257194530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed it for the Glider 4 image only. :p < 1257194560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the shared with unix thingy? < 1257194579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the config dialog calls "Unix Root" in the Volumes tab. < 1257194590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"extfs" in the config file. < 1257194605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't that show up from the floppy < 1257194614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, < 1257194620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I get the OS image there < 1257194623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for system 7 < 1257194631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The floppy doesn't have that FSM 1.2 thing for the shared-drive. < 1257194638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to copy the .smi and .part files to your HD image. < 1257194659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, formatting it first with HFS+? < 1257194662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or plain HFS? < 1257194682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain HFS, if you're running System 7. But you can format it by booting from the floppy. < 1257194690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll automagically suggest formatting the disk. < 1257194698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess hfsutils has a format tool too, though. < 1257194718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can create an image file with dd, or in the BasiliskII configuration dialog.) < 1257194723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, removing the binhex thingy? < 1257194734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, figured out how to create the HD no issue < 1257194761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get rid of the MacBinary encoding (it's .bin, not .hqx) when copying files from Unix to the HFS image with hfsutils. < 1257194793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like hmount + hmkdir inst + hcopy -m .../*.bin :inst + humount. < 1257194795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hcopy? < 1257194814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that needs root? < 1257194824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1257194828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't. < 1257194845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it store the state < 1257194849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit mtools-like (or CVS "login" like) in that it maintains a "current volume and directory" in ~/.hcwd. < 1257194882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm not sure whether mtools does that, maybe not. < 1257194884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hcopy: "System_7.5.3_19of19.part.bin": not a directory < 1257194885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1257194893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the destination path too. < 1257194893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hcopy -m .../*.bin" seems wrong < 1257194896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257194900 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257194900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: or :inst or something. < 1257194913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(":" for current-directory, ":inst" if you hmkdir'd a place for the files.) < 1257194918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257194948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and then just the installers from Mac HD? < 1257194962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tutorial talks about copying the system dir < 1257194964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that needed < 1257194977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; I think the installer will create one. < 1257194980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can if you want. < 1257195011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, but really, I don't think it matters much. < 1257195089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both cases you should be able to just run the .smi file on the HD, and then the "Install System software" app from the virtual CD it mounts on the desktop. < 1257195153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also did a Custom Install with some pseudo-sensible software selections, even though the tutorial warns that the 7.5.5 update won't work with it; I'm not that interested in the update anyway. < 1257195193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yay finally I found a use for 4 GB RAM. ATM FreeBSD, NetBSD VMs are running. And this Basilisk II < 1257195208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both the *BSD VMs are heavily loaded < 1257195211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was a quick install < 1257195229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 7.5.3 shutdown and startup are horribly quick too. < 1257195246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on modern hardware yes < 1257195264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also haven't tried networking yet. It needs a silly custom kernel module for "share a physical Ethernet device" networking, but ethertap virtual-networking might work without that too. < 1257195296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit suspicious to whether that works any more, if they haven't updated it since 2007. < 1257195307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh now I get a "unimplemented trap" error < 1257195308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257195402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be some extension, perhaps; the tutorial notes that "A/Rose under Networking and Extensions" is incompatible with Basilisk. < 1257195456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 1024x600 . I wonder what sort of wide screen that is < 1257195477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. Missed that < 1257195484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the extension solved it < 1257195485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been running it with the classic 512x384 screen. < 1257195522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too small on a high dpi screen < 1257195526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small anyway < 1257195527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1257195593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could maybe play around with the networking, but there aren't *that* many interesting 68k-mac Interwebby programs. iCab 2.9.9, IE 3.something, Netscape 3 as far as browsers go. < 1257195638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh that puzzle < 1257195644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does this os have apple script? < 1257195656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1257195662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1257195663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1257195664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1257195670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some AppleScript-related things in the installer, yes. < 1257195692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257195709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if I could get norton speeddisk the defragment thing to run on this < 1257195711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1257195713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was PPC < 1257195727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that iso of the game you mentioned. Where? < 1257195740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed too messy. surely you could share? < 1257195752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was released without charge now < 1257195800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/glider_4.iso possibly. I guess you could run BasiliskII as "BasiliskII --cdrom /path/to/glider_4.iso" for a one-time copy-to-HD use. < 1257195842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is one SMALL iso < 1257195860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but took 20 seconds to download < 1257195866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96 KB/s < 1257195871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your connection sucks? < 1257195879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outgoing speed, sure. < 1257195889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what consumer ADSL is like, you know. < 1257195892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw those --floppy and --cdrom seems to be saved < 1257195904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I wondered about that. < 1257195973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what keys to rebuild desktop sort of thing? < 1257195980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1 Mbps outwards; theoretically that should get something like 122 kB/s at most. < 1257196033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about that. < 1257196086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even quite know how it maps command/option to ctrl/alt. (Probably just like that.) < 1257196135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On PC-style keyboards, "Alt" is the Mac "Command" key, while the "Windows" key is the Mac "Option" key.". Well, that's what the README says. It might not work out like that. < 1257196152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1257196170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was it on macs? < 1257196172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1257196179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-Command? < 1257196203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command-option during booting or something. < 1257196215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might've been some messing-around with extensions though. < 1257196221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interwebs probably know more than me. < 1257197465 0 :scorchsaber!n=scorchsa@user65-127.vicres.utoronto.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257197513 0 :scorchsaber!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1257197996 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1257198250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you manage to get that system 7.5.5 update to work? < 1257198259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't try. < 1257198269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, makes disk image unbootable for me < 1257198273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not needed for Glider 4. :p < 1257198285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you do the Easy Install thing? < 1257198302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, custom install < 1257198951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then. < 1257198965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tutorial does say that only Easy Install works with the 7.5.5 update. < 1257199107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257199110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that < 1257199963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257203690 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257204685 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1257206137 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257206255 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257206264 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"