←2009-11-03 2009-11-04 2009-11-05→ ↑2009 ↑all
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01:04:44 <Gregor> AnMaster: plash
01:15:43 <Gregor> http://codu.org:2888/
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01:42:28 <Sgeo> I surrender
01:42:32 <Sgeo> int aw_create (char* universe_domain, int universe_port, void** instance)
01:42:53 <Sgeo> The AW SDK wants me to use a void pointer to refer to "instances" (not the OOP meaning) of bots
01:43:20 <Sgeo> http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/multiple.htm
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01:51:31 <MizardX> Gregor: http://codu.org:2888/wiki/list -- just added :)
01:51:55 <Gregor> Schweet :)
01:52:08 <Gregor> It even works! :P
01:52:14 <MizardX> ofc
01:52:45 <Gregor> The next step would be to write a wikicode "interpreter", so that standard wiki pages can be made without ripping ones brains out.
01:54:15 <MizardX> it has perl :P
01:54:23 <Gregor> And python.
01:54:24 <MizardX> and php
01:54:41 <Gregor> (I just made a small improvement to the "new page" thingy)
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02:40:31 <Gregor> Did somebody in here make wikify?
02:43:49 <MizardX> I am editing it
02:43:58 <Gregor> Ah, OK.
02:44:02 <Gregor> Just wondering where it came from.
02:44:04 <Gregor> Awesomesauce.
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02:48:13 <MizardX> Only resolves wiki links [[pagename title]] and converts linbreaks to <br/> for now. http://codu.org:2888/wiki/wikify/foo
02:49:47 <Gregor> Schweet.
02:49:54 <Gregor> Can you make it ignore chebang lines?
02:50:05 <Gregor> Then it can be made the chebang line of a file :)
02:52:42 <MizardX> done
02:53:01 <Gregor> Hooplah.
02:53:45 <Gregor> OK, so it has a few minor problems ^^
02:54:04 <Gregor> See http://codu.org:2888/wiki/wikitest
02:54:15 <Gregor> I can probably fix these, will just have to remember some Python is all :)
02:56:50 <pikhq> Gregor: If not, you could make it into an executable format.
02:57:00 <Gregor> MizardX: Yeah, that chebang line won't work :P
02:57:37 <MizardX> So, multi-level shebang scripts isn't allowed?
02:57:48 <Gregor> MizardX: It is allowed, but chebang lines have to start with /
02:57:59 <Gregor> Hence why I did /usr/bin/env wikify
03:00:45 <MizardX> hmf... I did make wikify make links using itself
03:01:36 <Gregor> That's ... not ideal? :P I think I'd prefer chebangs to be the standard mechanism. Idonno *shrugs*
03:05:14 <Gregor> I guess it doesn't matter, the whole idea is everybody can hack Hackiki to do whatever they want :P
03:06:47 <Gregor> The only issue with that is that then when you're in wikify, you're sort of trapped, you can't have some wiki pages use wikify and some not.
03:06:52 <Gregor> (Not easily anyway)
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03:13:58 * pikhq notes that Plash is awesome.
03:14:06 <Oranjer> what is Plash
03:14:22 <pikhq> http://plash.beasts.org/wiki/
03:14:59 * Sgeo notes that the AW SDK makes him want to shoot himself
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04:23:47 <Warrigal> I want to make a Hackiki-crawling script and put it on Hackiki.
04:25:14 <Gregor> Then do so?
04:27:00 <Warrigal> I imagine I will.
04:27:25 * Warrigal decides that his current big project is not more important.
04:28:21 <coppro> Hackiki already confuses me
04:33:18 <Gregor> Is it just me or are two of us editing wikitest? :P
04:33:52 <MizardX> I added an extra pair of [ ]
04:33:58 <MizardX> and |
04:34:20 <Gregor> I actually put the wikifying engine in /hackiki/libexec/wiki (which doesn't work right now for some reason)
04:34:26 <Gregor> So right now it's borkulous.
04:35:09 <MizardX> It worked when I tried it.
04:35:42 <Gregor> /hackiki/libexec/wiki: error while loading shared libraries: /hackiki/libexec/wiki: invalid ELF header
04:36:02 <MizardX> #!/usr/bin/env .wiki <-- that worked when I tried it
04:36:14 <Gregor> Yeah, but I just moved that to /hackiki/libexec/wiki :P
04:36:24 <coppro> ha
04:36:29 <Gregor> OK, I'll move it back, then I'll stop poking at it.
04:36:32 <coppro> I just accidentally clicked #!/usr/bin/env
04:36:36 <coppro> turns out it's a registered channel
04:37:11 <Gregor> lawl
04:37:33 <Gregor> *done*
04:37:40 <Gregor> MizardX: Poke away, I am no longer poking :P
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04:44:51 <Gregor> I didn't actually stop poking.
04:44:54 <Gregor> I'm a jerk like that.
04:44:57 <Gregor> NOW I'm done poking :P
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05:07:53 <MizardX> There. http://codu.org:2888/wiki/index
05:09:00 <MizardX> oh... shortcut typo
05:09:20 <Gregor> It ... seems to be hanging for me ... unless my tuberwebs are just slow.
05:11:10 <Gregor> It's a good thing when kswapd0 is taking up 100% CPU, right? :P
05:14:08 <Gregor> Not sure what to make of this swap thrashing ...
05:14:17 <Gregor> Especially since nothing's using much memory.
05:15:09 <MizardX> What would happen if you restarted kswapd0?
05:15:31 <MizardX> Would the whole system crash?
05:15:39 <Gregor> Probably. Not something I'm willing to do :P
05:16:33 <Gregor> Oh, maybe it's because my backup script is running right now and rsyncing all of codu! :P
05:17:31 <coppro> maybe
05:17:41 <coppro> but that sounds like a preposterous theory
05:17:47 <coppro> I suggest a virus
05:18:16 <Gregor> Damn, somebody already hacked a virus into Hackiki.
05:18:19 <coppro> probably some strain of H1N1
05:18:23 <Gregor> Welp, looks like I'll have to take down codu entirely.
05:18:29 <pikhq> As I see all this ridiculousness on "t3h homosexuals" in Maine and Washington, I must admit: Canada is very, very tempting.
05:19:03 <Gregor> t3h homosexuals, eh.
05:19:08 <coppro> pikhq: Canada! Where homosexual rights were inadvertantly enshrined in our constitution 27 years ago - that's how forward-thinking we are!
05:19:14 * MizardX falls asleep
05:19:15 <pikhq> coppro: :D
05:19:47 <pikhq> Gregor: Stupid stupid shit like "The country of Scandinavia legalised gay marriage in 2004 -- suicide rates skyrocketed!"
05:20:10 <coppro> "country of Scandinavia"...
05:20:18 <pikhq> (note: Scandinavia is not a country, no country in Scandinavia legalised gay marriage in 2004, and suicide rates did not skyrocket in 2004 in Scandinavia)
05:20:22 <Gregor> The proper name is, of course, Scandinaviland.
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05:27:07 <Gregor> Damn, still slow.
05:27:10 <Gregor> Not sure what's going on.
05:27:15 <Gregor> Mayhaps it's not me though :P
05:27:35 <Gregor> Oh look, now it's fast.
05:27:36 <Gregor> Weird.
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06:58:44 <Gregor> MizardX: Our difference of opinions w.r.t the .wiki script, crystallized: I want wiki pages to always be files in bin/, which has the caveat that all wiki pages that are conventional wiki pages are just scripts using bin/.wiki as a chebang line. I keep on changing .wiki to work that way, and you keep on changing .wiki to work under the assumption that wiki pages that use wiki syntax won't be in bin at all :P
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09:21:36 <AnMaster> <Gregor> http://codu.org:2888/ <-- hah
09:23:43 <AnMaster> Gregor, the wikify thing is gone?
09:28:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, btw got keymappings to work ok in Basilisk or sheepshaver?
09:28:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, I tried US, UK and Swedish but none of them match what I would expect
09:29:28 <AnMaster> as in, neither matches what it says on the key caps, what it is on a real mac or what that key caps app under the apple menu says it should be
09:30:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, oh and depending on if I use the local keyboard or synergy it differs in different ways
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10:36:44 <fizzie> I don't think I used any other keys except alphabetics and "," or "." yet, so no idea about keymappings.
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10:38:14 <fizzie> Today's lecture session at 12:15 had been canceled, and notice emails were sent at 10:30. That was a bit of a short notice thing.
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10:44:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, agreed
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10:45:37 <fizzie> I for one sat 20 minutes in the classroom waiting for other people because I had to run there from another thing and didn't have time for mail-checkery between.
10:46:31 <AnMaster> fizzie, btw. I just found an old VirtualPC cd for mac
10:46:48 <AnMaster> however, I think it would be rather sane to use that to run linux under sheepshaver
10:46:51 <AnMaster> XD
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10:50:00 <fizzie> Misread something about the undead.
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10:50:47 <AnMaster> fizzie, eh?
10:51:06 <AnMaster> s/sane/insane/ btw
10:51:07 <fizzie> I'm not sure what. Something about undead sheep-shavers. Sounds bizarre.
10:51:15 <AnMaster> hah
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10:51:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, says "under"
10:51:22 <fizzie> Apparently.
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10:52:06 <AnMaster> ooh I remember playing this http://macintoshgarden.org/games/galactic-core
10:52:12 <AnMaster> at least I remember that splash screen
10:53:04 <AnMaster> -Md/Wallops- we had to shut down one of our servers which was unstable. sorry for the noise
10:53:06 <AnMaster> you don't say?
10:53:52 <fizzie> Ooh, a play-by-email (potentially) game. How refreshingly quirky.
10:54:12 <fizzie> VGA Planets was played quite a lot in the BBS scene around here.
10:54:25 <AnMaster> fizzie, wait what? it had that?
10:54:28 <AnMaster> I don't remember
10:54:46 <fizzie> It says "has the option of playing multiplayer games via email" on that page, at least.
10:54:53 <AnMaster> oh right
10:55:15 * AnMaster didn't read the text, when he noticed there was no key
10:55:20 <AnMaster> because I didn't have one either
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11:05:27 * oklopol feels like esolanging
11:06:15 <fizzie> Speaking of $2500 cables (okay, so we're not speaking of them *now*, but we've been speaking of them earlier); here's a $2500 dowsing rod: http://simmonsscientificproducts.com/pmr_iii.html
11:06:54 <fizzie> It's the best thing you can possibly get with today's technology.
11:07:02 <AnMaster> I found oxyd for mac
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11:07:17 <AnMaster> it looks incredibly similar to enigma in graphics
11:07:17 <fizzie> (As long as your "things" are limited to fancy sticks, and you use a suitable definition of "best".)
11:07:23 <AnMaster> not only in game play I mean
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11:08:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, what is a "dowsing rod"?
11:08:25 <fizzie> AnMaster: A rod that you do dowsing with.
11:08:33 <AnMaster> fizzie, dowsing being?
11:08:46 <fizzie> AnMaster: 1. dowse, dowsing, rhabdomancy -- (searching for underground water or minerals by using a dowsing rod)
11:08:52 <AnMaster> oh
11:08:56 <fizzie> You wave a stick around and it magically (or pseudoscientifically) finds water.
11:09:01 <fizzie> Or whatever else you want it to find.
11:09:22 <fizzie> Except that with $2500 you get a stick with two (count 'em, two!) "power tubes".
11:09:25 <AnMaster> fizzie, remember this? http://macintoshgarden.org/games/spin-doctor
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11:09:39 * AnMaster gets nostalgic
11:10:02 <fizzie> No, I don't. Of course, I was never a Mac person myself, just an observer of some.
11:10:43 <AnMaster> fizzie, what about that performa then?
11:11:24 <fizzie> Well, I didn't play with it *that* much.
11:11:54 <AnMaster> fizzie, iirc spin doctor was bundled with a performa I used.
11:12:00 <AnMaster> 5600 or around there
11:12:30 <fizzie> I don't remember seeing it, but of course I didn't exactly buy it as new, and don't really know where the software on it came from.
11:13:02 <fizzie> With it#1 being that spin doctor, and it#2 + it#3 being the Performa boxey.
11:14:33 <AnMaster> fizzie, I actually parsed it correctly first time. But after reading the clarification I ended up confused for several seconds
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11:19:26 <MizardX> {AnMaster} Gregor, the wikify thing is gone? <-- renamed to ".wiki", which is hidden in the listing
11:20:19 <MizardX> The shebang is written as: #!/usr/bin/env .wiki
11:30:57 <AnMaster> ah
11:35:19 <AnMaster> MizardX, what does the .wiki stuff do then?
11:59:05 <MizardX> About the same as before, but treats both normal and wikified content the same.
11:59:17 <AnMaster> MizardX, yeah and what was that
11:59:28 * AnMaster missed the part where it was actually described
12:00:08 <MizardX> It converts [[links]] to accual links, and adds <br> at linebreaks.
12:00:28 <MizardX> Also adds page title, and edit links to each wikified page.
12:00:40 <MizardX> s/links/link/
12:00:41 <AnMaster> MizardX, not <br />?
12:00:57 <MizardX> I don't remember. Could be
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13:28:09 <oerjan> <Gregor> The proper name is, of course, Scandinaviland. <-- just next to neverland
13:31:16 <oerjan> <fizzie> I'm not sure what. Something about undead sheep-shavers. Sounds bizarre.
13:31:20 <oerjan> scary stuff
13:34:30 <fizzie> Yay, got the official confirmation email that they've accepted my graduate school application. Funding, and therefore almost guaranteed employment here at the university, for 2010-2013. No more begging for spare coins under the railway overpass! (Okay, so I hadn't yet even started that, but still. And conditional to the thesis-work progressing at a reasonable speed.)
13:35:02 <oerjan> congrats
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14:02:37 <AnMaster> oerjan, iwc
14:03:06 <oerjan> aye
14:03:49 <AnMaster> also I disagree with the annotation.
14:04:24 <oerjan> well naturally it's not that bad usually
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14:05:05 <fizzie> After reading the comp.risks digests every now and then, I do have a view somewhat like in the annotation of software.
14:05:31 <AnMaster> heh never knew of that usenet group
14:05:35 <oerjan> but if you thought computer programs were _usually_ made as good as possible, then you should be really worried about those examples :D
14:05:50 <AnMaster> anyway, I never had much problems except for emulators for old systems.
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14:08:25 <fizzie> Well, just look at the state of computer security; vulnerabilities all over the place, even in things that should be trivial. (Buffer overflows! In 2009!) Admittedly the adversarial model they run in is a lot more difficult than just "has to be robust against accidental errors".
14:09:07 <AnMaster> hm true
14:09:35 <fizzie> As far as non-security-related things go, there must be something in the eyeball-bugs saying, since at least my vague feeling is that bug density is higher in all kinds of closed-source blobs. (Skype and nvidia's binary drivers come to mind.)
14:10:08 <fizzie> Eyeball bugs; they're these little critters that nest in your eyeballs. Icky.
14:10:08 <AnMaster> fizzie, I suggest a solution to it: Use "unsafe" languages (like C or asm) only for the stuff you can't use something better (like LISP) for.
14:10:30 <AnMaster> "eyeball-bugs"?
14:11:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, and yes. agreed that binary blobs are more problematic.
14:11:22 <fizzie> "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow."
14:11:43 <AnMaster> ah
14:11:45 <AnMaster> yes indeed
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14:13:34 <AnMaster> fizzie, oh and just as an example... I have a WinXP 64-bit VM. Haven't used it for half a month. 12 new security updates. And two reliability ones.
14:15:12 <oerjan> windows updates usually only come once a month, afaik...
14:15:58 <oerjan> but several at once naturally
14:16:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, probably. There has been such a month increment recently
14:16:35 <AnMaster> some days ago
14:17:04 <oerjan> yes i got it a couple days ago or so
14:17:42 <fizzie> The CVE list has 39098 entries, spread over a decade or so; that's something like ten a day.
14:19:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, sure that is right?
14:20:18 <fizzie> http://cve.mitre.org/cve/ "TOTAL CVEs: 39098"
14:20:36 <fizzie> grep 'Name: CVE' allitems.txt |wc -l => 41068; and they start from 1999.
14:22:49 <AnMaster> fizzie, that count differs quite a bit hm
14:23:07 <AnMaster> maybe some are references?
14:23:08 <AnMaster> or such
14:23:22 <fizzie> Possibly.
14:23:41 <fizzie> Anyway, that's the order of magnitude.
14:27:20 <fizzie> (Of course not everything in the CVE list probably counts as a vulnerability; I think the count also includes candidate-but-not-a-real-entry entries and such.)
14:27:30 <fizzie> Must away for a few hours now.
14:32:45 <AnMaster> yay for vm snapshots.
14:35:25 * AnMaster lightly prods some VMs
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15:04:53 <fizzie> After reviewing about 8 hours of recorded webcam video, I now know what the cat does when we're at work: sleeps.
15:05:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, was that what you planned to use it for?
15:05:33 <fizzie> Yes. Well, sort-of.
15:05:38 <AnMaster> really?
15:06:24 <fizzie> Yes, cat-observation was the intended goal. It's just that I assumed it'd actually move from my chair at least once during the day. Apparently not.
15:06:51 <fizzie> It did stand up a couple of times, and did some self-lickery, but that seemed to be about it.
15:09:02 <AnMaster> fizzie, heh. Why did you want to watch it though?
15:09:54 <fizzie> We wanted to know if it seems bored or not during the day. :p
15:10:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, btw I found a way to make sheepshaver less unstable: Shut it down very often. Like after you copy some files. Shut it down before doing the next step
15:10:09 <AnMaster> shut down and start again obviously
15:10:23 <AnMaster> not restart, becuase that doesn't quit and restart sheepshaver itself
15:10:44 <AnMaster> fizzie, heh
15:11:00 <AnMaster> fizzie, and the conclusion to that is?
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15:20:39 <fizzie> Well, our preliminary conclusion is that it's not terminally bored, since it just sleeps; we're guessing it'd walk around and look distressed or something. Who knows, though; it just says "krneeew" when we tried to ask directly.
15:21:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, ah. Not quite the verbal skills of Maurice then?
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16:45:51 <Gregor> MizardX: I think I need to put a notice somewhere along the lines of "all contributions to Hackiki are under <such-and-such> license". Any objections to MIT/X11?
16:46:03 <Gregor> (Since you contributed stuff :P )
16:47:05 <MizardX> I don't care. Pick whatever.
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16:51:33 <Gregor> Durn
16:51:36 <Gregor> As in, "done" :P
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17:39:43 <Gregor> Heh, somebody sent me "identify <presumably-their-password>"
17:48:10 <Warrigal> I wonder what my password is.
17:50:56 <fizzie> "My voice is my password. Verify me." As seen in the 1992 movie Sneakers.
17:51:59 <fizzie> Well, as heard.
17:52:02 <Deewiant> Nowadays we have portable sound players without a noticeable loss of quality so that doesn't work as well
17:52:12 <Deewiant> Or did they do a recording there as well?
17:52:23 <fizzie> They did.
17:52:41 <fizzie> Clipped together out of a whole lot of sentences.
17:52:57 <Deewiant> Meh, what a crap verifier then
17:53:08 <fizzie> It's Hollywood, you know.
17:53:50 <fizzie> One voice-verification system asks you to read out a random string of digits and recognizes those, so you can't do pure replay. I would assume it to be vulnerable to some sort of "input numbers and I'll concatenate suitable clips together" application, though.
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18:09:15 <Gregor> Hackiki is now up at http://hackiki.codu.org/
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18:45:43 <AnMaster> first snow this season
18:46:13 <fizzie> Hey, they're forecasting snow here too.
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18:47:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, it seems to melt pretty quickly
18:47:27 <fizzie> Hey, it might actually be snowing out there too. Too dark to really make out without leaving the chair, but there's some sort of possibly snow-like rain visible under the street lamp out there.
18:48:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, it was hailing (err is that the verb form of "hail" in English?) first. Then it changed into snow
18:48:24 <AnMaster> (that is, unless they were trying out bouncing snow beta)
18:48:41 <fizzie> Slight physics engine tweaks, maybe.
18:48:53 <Deewiant> Yeah, it's been snowing for a while now
18:48:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, yeah. Or a bug in the matrix
18:49:00 <Deewiant> Maybe half an hour
18:49:09 <fizzie> I don't think we've lately been getting proper stays-on-ground snow before christmas, though, so I guess it'll melt pretty immediately.
18:49:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, here it has been hailing since 10:00 or so, and snowing since just after sunset
18:49:57 <AnMaster> which was... uh... several hours ago? Something like that
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22:41:00 * pikhq is log-reading at random...
22:41:06 <pikhq> 08:24:03 <ehird> Benevolent Dictator For Until You Get Your Fucking Shit Together.
22:41:14 <pikhq> That's the best idea I've heard for fixing D.
22:41:16 <pikhq> Ever.
23:05:16 <AnMaster> pikhq, who would be?
23:05:31 <AnMaster> bbqs
23:12:12 <MizardX> You of course
23:22:49 <AnMaster> hah
23:23:28 <AnMaster> MizardX, would probably be better with someone who knew D and possibly also coded in it
23:23:45 <MizardX> nonsense
23:24:33 <AnMaster> MizardX, yeah I would replace the whole thing with a cross between C and LISP
23:24:41 <AnMaster> with some erlang mixed in
23:24:48 <MizardX> for the better
23:24:55 <AnMaster> all the object orientation stuff would be dropped
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23:25:45 <AnMaster> <MizardX> for the better
23:25:45 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> all the object orientation stuff would be dropped
23:25:45 <AnMaster> * MizardX has quit (calkins.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
23:25:51 <AnMaster> not sure if you missed anything there
23:25:59 <MizardX> No
23:26:07 <MizardX> Server I was connect to died
23:26:15 <MizardX> Quick reconnect
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23:43:10 <Gregor> MizardX: I replaced .wiki with one that uses WikiCreole.
23:43:17 <MizardX> ok
23:43:36 <AnMaster> WikiCreole?
23:43:47 <Gregor> http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Creole1.0
23:43:54 <Gregor> It's just some Wiki syntax that's fairly sensible.
23:44:22 <AnMaster> Gregor, please use moinmoin syntax. For the lulz
23:44:22 <Gregor> I extended WikiCreole to support this syntax: {{{\n#!/usr/bin/python\nprint "Lawl embedded code"\n}}}
23:44:37 <AnMaster> Gregor, that looks ugly
23:44:44 <AnMaster> as bad as trac's usage of {{{}}}
23:45:01 <Gregor> God I hate people.
23:45:08 <AnMaster> Gregor, why?
23:45:09 <Gregor> At this moment particularly AnMaster, but people in general.
23:45:18 <AnMaster> Gregor, why do you hate me?
23:45:28 <Gregor> AnMaster: If you don't like the syntax, HEY, the script is in the wiki, go do whatever you fucking want and stop complaining that every syntax is wrong :P
23:45:47 <AnMaster> Gregor, did I complain about every one?
23:46:01 <AnMaster> but yes. As a matter of fact. All syntax syntax suck
23:46:05 <AnMaster> at least all I have seen so far
23:46:23 <Gregor> Anyone who would complain about {{{...}}} used for f***ing INLINE CODE is somebody who hates all syntax.
23:47:04 <Gregor> Anyway, Hackiki is now officially the greatest wiki ever.
23:47:13 <Gregor> And all people should stop development on their inferior wikis and use Hackiki.
23:47:16 <Gregor> :P
23:47:43 <AnMaster> Gregor, how is it performance wise? ;P
23:47:51 <Gregor> Seems good enough, surprisingly *shrugs*
23:48:02 <Gregor> I doubt it scales, since it's effectively CGI + plash
23:49:37 <AnMaster> Gregor, yeah. I was suspecting plash wouldn't scale
23:50:08 <Gregor> Oh yeah, plus every page view involves an hg clone, I suppose that's not super-fast X-D
23:53:15 <Gregor> I don't think plash itself is very slow, really, but as the wiki increases in size the hg clone will become slower (duh), so that could be a very real issue.
23:59:16 <pikhq> Is Plash Debian-specific or some such?
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