< 1257638406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah those are all analogue inputs < 1257638409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∀x(Human(x) → Existance(x) → 0) <<< so what exactly is the natural topology of implications? i'm having a hard time interpreting this < 1257638410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257638418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1257638428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, eh? Are you saying precedence order? < 1257638454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, as I said the second one is NOT an implication, but a limit < 1257638481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so: < 1257638504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∀x(Human(x) →[implies] (Existance(x) →[limit] 0)) < 1257638509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, clearer? < 1257638592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, did you know that ed is fun and advanced?! < 1257638596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ed < 1257638596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r !ls < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390 < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,s/^/less / < 1257638597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w !sh < 1257638598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the second one is a limit < 1257638601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390 being output from ed < 1257638606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads the result of `ls` into the buffer < 1257638607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't know what limits mean for implications < 1257638612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm asking what their natural topology is < 1257638614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't ed TC iirc? < 1257638615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces start of line with "less " in all lines < 1257638618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1257638619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writes it to a shell < 1257638624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, eh? < 1257638628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet you didn't know it could do that < 1257638635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i just don't know what limits mean for implications <-- nothing. < 1257638648 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257638667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killjoy < 1257638671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in this case however "being human implies your "existence level" goes towards 0" < 1257638711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh should've read your "clearer" thingie, since i indeed misinterpreted what's limit is being taken < 1257638721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well whose) < 1257638751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi < 1257638755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admire how cool ed actually is! < 1257638766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the same things work in vi by putting : in front. < 1257638773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, fair enough. It wasn't exactly standard notation (to put it mildly) < 1257638781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it TC or not? < 1257638786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit < 1257638786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1257638787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not incidentally < 1257638788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1257638792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well, yeah < 1257638793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not certain < 1257638797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex is a subset of ed after all < 1257639424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: baizng < 1257639426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bazing < 1257639755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves how worlds in AW can set what should only be settable by the user
< 1257639833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forcing me to, say, have a visibility of 100m is obnoxious for those on poorer graphics cards < 1257639872 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257639886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION toys with the idea of registering in Active Worlds, invading everywhere and setting up scripts that ruins everything
< 1257639891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea rejection ticket < 1257639893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, s/loves/hates/ then? < 1257639895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason: Too tired < 1257639899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolved: WONTFIX < 1257639907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah < 1257639913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's called sarcasm < 1257639914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolved: LATER < 1257639914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-08T00:25Z < 1257639921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, WONTFIX < 1257639922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah. Too tired < 1257639925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are execu-fucking tive < 1257639928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we make decisions now < 1257639931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move onto other decisions < 1257639934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the SHIT out of them < 1257639937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXECU-FUCKING TIVE < 1257639938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257639943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, the worse you can do is make something to destroy all tourist property in, say, AWTeen < 1257639943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking corporate and all that shit. < 1257639944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1257639954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm sure i could figure out something < 1257639956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: observant it is indeed night < 1257639961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i notice you omitted the arrow < 1257639973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe spam goatse in public areas < 1257639977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oops yeah I forgot it < 1257639981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of fucking corporate decisions and shit < 1257639983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://buttersafe.com/2008/08/21/corporate-finance/ < 1257639983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↓ is what I meant < 1257639986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's more of an AWNewbie problem < 1257639987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257639995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one goes to AWNewbie anymore, so < 1257640011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW...booby < 1257640071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some X rated worlds in AW >.> < 1257640143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot think of a single meaning of >.> there that isn't creepy or sad. < 1257640180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, the fact that I know that there are X rated worlds is what I thought was suspicious < 1257640196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're not accessible without setting an option to allow one to see them) < 1257640210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to make things worse < 1257640220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually been to one < 1257640283 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257641688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257642412 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257642447 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257642858 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257642927 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257642939 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257643000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on people. < 1257643016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's pwned codu through Hackiki yet. < 1257643019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get with the program. < 1257643769 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1257643773 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1257643812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on augur, pwn codu! < 1257643819 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats codu < 1257643827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/ < 1257643832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, the box that runs that. < 1257643848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're challenging people to hack it? < 1257643857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackiki.codu.org/ < 1257643864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised that I could put that up and NOT see somebody hack it. < 1257643869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will do it Gregor if you will entertain my talk! < 1257643890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one entertain someone's talk ... < 1257643898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor, i dont get it < 1257643902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we supposed to do < 1257643924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/rm: cannot remove root directory `/' < 1257643927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It's a wiki that runs nearly-arbitrary code. Figure out how to escape its security restrictions and kill codu people! < 1257643931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi i broked it < 1257643954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/rm: cannot remove `/bin': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/dev': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/etc': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/hackiki': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib64': Permission denied /bin/rm: cannot remove `/tmp': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cannot remove `/usr': Function not implemented /bin/rm: cann < 1257643955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove `/var': Function not implemented < 1257643955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am sad < 1257643957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i suggest it to adrian lamo? < 1257643968 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be too cruel to do to the codu server? < 1257643978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, look at augur, it's time for his special show < 1257643982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hack is boring. < 1257643985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look At Me I Am Totally In Bed With A Leet Haxor < 1257643987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's easily reverted. < 1257643992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: shush < 1257643993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not in bed with adrian lamo. :| < 1257643995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes like < 1257643997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sacramento < 1257644000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im not < 1257644029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a solvable problem. < 1257644033 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is! < 1257644034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: entertaining someone's talk is answering their all important questions about death. < 1257644036 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would require money < 1257644045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, he's got a boybitch < 1257644056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: YOU COULD BE THAT BOYBITCH < 1257644061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not. < 1257644062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1257644077 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Also a solvable problem! Just a more complicated one to solve. < 1257644089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hackiki/bin/.wiki: line 3: tree: command not found < 1257644117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: bin: Function not implemented < 1257644117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: lib: Function not implemented < 1257644118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: templates: Function not implemented < 1257644119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why don't you just use the arbitrary command runner. < 1257644124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you're just running arbitrary commands ... < 1257644126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more carnage, < 1257644128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destruction, < 1257644129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex < 1257644144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're supposed to cause irreversible damage to codu, not trivially-reversible damage to the wiki. < 1257644147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY ENTERTAIN MY BARK < 1257644154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tree bark < 1257644155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not dog bark < 1257644164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to answer questions about death :P < 1257644204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it reverted yet? < 1257644222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1257644233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cromyomlancy! < 1257644241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1257644242 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ help.txt \ huh \ karma \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.20700 < 1257644280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://hackiki.codu.org/wiki/ < 1257644295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw it doesn't work < 1257644335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hack CODU, not end users ;)0 < 1257644396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesens't work :( < 1257644412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it irreversibly damages codu's readerbase < 1257644417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1257644423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck what was my q— oh yes < 1257644433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i'm going to bother you some more about wearable computing MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1257644437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so evil. evil and tired < 1257644441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mainly tired) < 1257644478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, ask fast 'cuz I'll be gone at any minute :P < 1257644487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; but i am le tired < 1257644499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a nap at this point, then fire ze missiles < 1257644512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: okay so since the myvu thing is only 640x480 < 1257644516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have the dpi set up really high < 1257644521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you only fit like < 1257644522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 words < 1257644523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the screen < 1257644538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few more than there, but it's pretty few, yes. < 1257644548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1257644548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1257644551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than THREE that is < 1257644555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1257644564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many lines of ~80col text would you guess < 1257644604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think it can display 80-column rows :P < 1257644609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257644617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay methinks i may need to find non-myvu options < 1257644624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how well is it operating btw < 1257644633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works great, I use it for PIM-ish stuff. < 1257644644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, an actual practical wearable computing application? < 1257644646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a first < 1257644657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know when /me was invented? < 1257644661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm crazy enough to want to use my not-yet-existing one for programming < 1257644666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that an original feature of irc? < 1257644669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: with ctcp. maybe slightly earlier < 1257644674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CTCP ACTION < 1257644686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1257644688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the main barrier to programming is the screen and the keyboard, right? < 1257644702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say so. < 1257644724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen I have no idea, keyboard I think my current plan is to use a FrogPad since it's tiny and has big keys and stuff < 1257644728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is apparently usable for real typing < 1257644743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer something with mechanical keyswitches because tactile response is quite important, but those are all heavy. < 1257644763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done anything with that tiny metal keyboard? PIM stuff doesn't really use it... < 1257644933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lag is him typing on his tiny metal keyboard after leaving. < 1257644936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly inspiring. < 1257645004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SALUTE YOU SIRE < 1257646157 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1257646247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun hack: < 1257646252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have your builder thingy do < 1257646256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s $(which interp) . < 1257646262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in your interpreted program just do < 1257646264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!interp < 1257646280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works in the same dir though... < 1257646350 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-82.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257647730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help me pic a watch < 1257647730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kennethcole.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3579841 < 1257647732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=249949&CategoryID=29196 < 1257647733 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=379381&CategoryID=31167 < 1257647735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=377836&CategoryID=29205 < 1257647791 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257648229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i recommend a watch that costs $5. < 1257648266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet, a smartphone that also — gasp — doubles up as a watch < 1257648450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ponder: does being indirectly told to reevaluate your priorities by someone who considers spending $250 on a keyboard sane mean that you're really off the deep end, or just have different priorities?) < 1257648456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just joking, it's the former) < 1257648949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to have a separate watch from his cell phone
< 1257648959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1257648970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an expensive one, just so I don't have to take out my cell phone constantly. Especially during tests or in the rain < 1257648999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a wrist computer, or better— a wearable computer! < 1257649013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ludwig Mies van der Rohe would like a word with you, though. < 1257649019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ornament is crime, after all. You could get arrested. < 1257649026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that was Adolf Loos. < 1257649032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, who cares, they're all the same.[1] < 1257649039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Apologies to all three architects out there < 1257649123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hasn't anyone invented a general better syntax for writing things since LaTeX. < 1257649132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, the \cmd{arg} construction) < 1257650013 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257651256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257653572 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for a new language < 1257653585 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called GPL and every valid program starts with the GPL license < 1257653600 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is treated as a comment but without it the compiler will error) < 1257655853 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257658324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257659664 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1257661194 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log-reading ehird, i have an iphone. < 1257661260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: does your name happen to be richard stallman? < 1257661528 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard `rms` stallman < 1257661538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1257661640 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TTP Project < 1257662926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fax! < 1257663131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257663235 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257663290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257663329 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257663357 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257663971 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1257664728 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey bsmntbombdood :) < 1257664738 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen you in forever < 1257665055 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257665067 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run out of steam :P < 1257665325 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are in university right? < 1257665424 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257665437 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? < 1257665442 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you are < 1257665446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257665877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too depressed for that sort of thing < 1257665887 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(((( < 1257665979 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntspacedood I am watching sealab 2021 < 1257666006 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar < 1257666016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am watching er < 1257666021 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257667135 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]" < 1257667199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1257667200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1257667530 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257668760 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668760 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668765 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668768 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668769 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668770 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257668871 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668871 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Guest7354!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257668872 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257669994 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669994 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257669999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670000 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670000 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :Guest7354!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670004 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670005 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670006 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670006 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670008 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257670008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1257672904 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672904 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672904 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672915 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672919 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672919 0 :lifthrasiir!i=tWSFYwwx@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672927 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-13.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Guest7354!n=serp@h-60-248.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257672960 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1257673262 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257673350 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1257675115 0 :fax!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257675314 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257676430 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257678042 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257678519 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257679748 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257680810 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1257681548 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257682548 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257683771 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.134.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257684043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:19:54 log-reading ehird, i have an iphone. < 1257684043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do not buy a watch. < 1257684139 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1257684848 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@82.66.176.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257685690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257685705 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257685766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ninite.com/ Windows users discover the package manager... uh, installer. < 1257686206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth is file sharing? < 1257686215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err lol < 1257686218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1257686220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed "Other" < 1257686220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257686223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1257686232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :share dem geographamagical location filezzz < 1257686262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking you could take pictures of places they don't have ones for yet :P < 1257686318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait they have like 5 apps everyone already has < 1257686328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well more like 40 but anyway < 1257686336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then do not buy a watch. <-- what about during tests? You aren't allowed to have a cell phone then < 1257686352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any number of things? < 1257686368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? < 1257686373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Among them moving to Denmark; they let you use the internetwebs now. :P) < 1257686389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, during tests in school/at university? < 1257686394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257686397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some, I think. < 1257686406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not things like mathematics and the like. < 1257686413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Danish exams. Or was it English? < 1257686422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, math was the stuff I was thinking of primarily here < 1257686423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't remember what schooling level. High school or university, probably. < 1257686427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? computers would be the least useful for mathematics < 1257686429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257686440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that's the point < 1257686444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wolfram alpha + wikipedia < 1257686447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty helpful < 1257686449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anything else being able to get information is useful < 1257686468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1257686472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1257686478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what about running a CAS on the computer? < 1257686479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah if it's basic course in monkey integration < 1257686485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway won't the test room have a clock in it < 1257686493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 90% of the rooms in the world have a clock in them :-P < 1257686531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all our test rooms have clocks in them, but in few they are positioned in such a way that you can't see them from where i sit. < 1257686534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at the university I'm at: all rooms except none of the rooms in the newest building. (strange yes) < 1257686541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. < 1257686557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, buy a $5 watch then and take it when you need it. But augur linked to watches in the vicinity of $150. < 1257686579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think there are some outside in the corridor in the newest building. But that is all. < 1257686602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he also thinks about what clothes to buy, i find that even weirder < 1257686613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, agreed < 1257686621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so basically he's stereotypically gay :-P < 1257686622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean clocks at least make this fun clicking sound < 1257686632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watches don't really tick much. < 1257686634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clothes don't do anything < 1257686639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah crappy ones don't < 1257686665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you dislike digital watches? < 1257686668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually tried to buy loudly ticking clocks with vjn once < 1257686685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "tried"? < 1257686686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rate clothes based on either comfort or boringness/cheapness, former for indoors, latter for outdoors < 1257686687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wanted to put them in a ring and make the ticking spin around < 1257686708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there simply aren't loudly ticking clocks. no existo. < 1257686722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't want comfort outside? < 1257686726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that cotton clothes intended for night usage are the only really comfortable clothes < 1257686739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus saving money by having to buy half the clothes, take that capitalism < 1257686750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something, I don't know < 1257686755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still residually tired from yesterday < 1257686768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have not yet seen a clothing item suitable for outdoor usage that is comfortable < 1257686771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rate shirts like this: black t-shirt without any noticeable deviation from the ideal form of black t-shirts ok, others discarded. < 1257686775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm ~~~sensitive~~~ < 1257686782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how you define "comfort" < 1257686782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate tshirts, gotta have something on my arms < 1257686794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm usually as naked as possible < 1257686800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clothes are annoying < 1257686807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would say a thick jacket is more comfortable outdoors than a thin one when it is -15C or so < 1257686810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know it when i see it.... as an approximation let's say the least noticeable < 1257686819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although softness is good, skin is kinda icky :-P < 1257686824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1257686830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean comfort as in discarding practicality < 1257686834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257686837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ignoring temperature < 1257686846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not pockets then? < 1257686859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any pockets at the moment < 1257686864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discarding pockets was the first thing I thought of when you said "discarding practicality" < 1257686868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need to carry around anything unless I'm going out < 1257686874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you stick your hands then? < 1257686886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: on the keyboard :D < 1257686904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where do you keep your credit card and such if you don't have any pockets? < 1257686906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean right now < 1257686911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, either by my side or crossing my arms. < 1257686927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm obviously naked so no pockets either < 1257686930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have much opportunity to stand doing nothing indoors, so much exciting stuff to do and all < 1257686954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't have a credit card. I do have a debit card thingy, but it's expired. I wouldn't put it anywhere indoors. < 1257686959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put it in my pockets to go out, naturally. < 1257686970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you leave it outdoors all the time? < 1257686988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my house has places to put things, you know < 1257686999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it was clearly a joke < 1257687000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys just have all your possessions in your pockets (that would be kinda cool) < 1257687005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: was it < 1257687007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much do < 1257687010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "I wouldn't put it anywhere indoors." <-- a joke about that... < 1257687015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1257687018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i also carry my computer baggie < 1257687022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I don't read my own lines < 1257687026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257687029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just forget to put stuff in there if it fits my pockets < 1257687047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is so huge he puts his laptop in his pocket < 1257687054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257687055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MORE YOU KNOW ===========================================* < 1257687070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alas, I couldn't fit the umbrella in there if I put my laptop there too < 1257687072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==* < 1257687083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=* wait, why are we drawing penises on icr < 1257687085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use an umbrella < 1257687085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irc < 1257687092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd miss all the rain < 1257687094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what oklopol said just open your mouth < 1257687097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drink all the rain < 1257687098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE BIG ENOUGH < 1257687112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with all the pollution these days? < 1257687124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft pollution < 1257687126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's acid rain. just like LSD! < 1257687127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you about pollution < 1257687130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in pollution < 1257687143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really all i wanted to tell you < 1257687149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i bet you didn't believe in getting less than a 5 either did you huh < 1257687153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHH < 1257687154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice burn < 1257687158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got another 4 < 1257687163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was from this... < 1257687164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257687176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257687178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was like finnish < 1257687192 0 :jix!n=jix@188-192-190-77-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1257687197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like finnish"? < 1257687198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules for writing scientific shit are slightly different than the rules in high school, and i didn't feel like reading them < 1257687203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257687205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course was < 1257687208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about like finnish < 1257687226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. what about the "like" bit then? < 1257687235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1257687246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what like means, "fix the errors in this sentence" < 1257687252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it sounded like "similar, but not exactly the same" < 1257687252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to acquire a model f
< 1257687255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ambiguities and shti < 1257687259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit < 1257687260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for AnMaster to call his typo
< 1257687278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what typo= < 1257687281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257687283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah it could mean that too < 1257687291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[13:34] * ehird wants to acquire a model f < 1257687293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("similar, but not...") < 1257687303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't know what a model f is < 1257687307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1257687308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't, and the like construct requires you to know what i mean < 1257687310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were gonna go *model m < 1257687311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257687320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it what you meant? < 1257687326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1257687329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a model f is one of these babies: http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257687341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the odd alt/caps lock keys, ctrl-where-caps-lock-is-nowadays (yes i know anmaster) < 1257687346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and odd layout in general < 1257687365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use capacitive buckling springs, which is like the model m membrane buckling springs but better < 1257687376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? Why did the shape the keys like one of those tetris blocks... < 1257687378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/moparx/3887360487/ another model, this one has more off the weird keycaps < 1257687383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a seemingly more compact layout < 1257687385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the one like: < 1257687387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # < 1257687388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### < 1257687397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the alt and caps lock? < 1257687407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manufacturing ease, I guess, or something < 1257687409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't read at that low res < 1257687412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably < 1257687412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it was in the 80s < 1257687417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257687420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257687421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that a reason? < 1257687422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not really low res < 1257687429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter is pretty tetris too < 1257687439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nobody had really decided which way to do big keys was best? < 1257687440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1257687443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, less so < 1257687444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's in my current keyboard too, it seems < 1257687446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that enter is the ISO layout enter < 1257687451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg < 1257687456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher res photo of a slightly different model < 1257687464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numpad joined together and more of the weird-style keys < 1257687467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257687473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the Personal Computer XT, I think < 1257687476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no arrow keys? :( < 1257687479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the first one, a Personal Computer AT < 1257687487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: these shipped with the original ibm pc < 1257687512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something to note in http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg < 1257687516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the european layout, but @ is on 2 < 1257687519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and " is on ' < 1257687522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the american layout < 1257687531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh < 1257687533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ' is shown as a closing quote with ` being its flipping < 1257687541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't seen a keyboard with @ elsewhere < 1257687547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :european boards. < 1257687552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the multi-line enter < 1257687557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg, esc is next to 1 < 1257687563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ` is relocated to before enter < 1257687572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I just want them for their keyfeel < 1257687572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Swedish keyboards, multi-line enter, @ is on altgr-2 < 1257687580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough to get an adapter to PS/2 < 1257687586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not that easy, but still < 1257687588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, fine < 1257687588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however I remember old swedish mac keyboards used to have @ elsewhere < 1257687591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot where < 1257687616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old here means "early imacs and older, gone by G4 already" < 1257687627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: When the first boards with the control/alt next to each other were made, ctrl was next to space and alt was further away. < 1257687634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more ergonomic because most shortcuts use ctrl. < 1257687645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they switch them then? < 1257687648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was changed for some unfathomable reason. OS X has Command in the position Ctrl used to be. < 1257687653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is good. < 1257687657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy enough to remap, anyway. < 1257687663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other OSs) < 1257687674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it hard to remap in OS X btw? < 1257687714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll demonstrate with a picture. < 1257687746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1257687749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't hit alt-s (current placement) with part of the palm for the alt. But it works with ctrl. Not sure if that is an argument for or against the current placement though < 1257687749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It screenshotted incorrectly. < 1257687751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try again. < 1257687778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting modifier keys with the palm is the Right Thing. < 1257687785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people don't do it, though. < 1257687785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however using part of your palm for ctrl is a bit cramped. So probably an argument against < 1257687795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not cramped, it's the ergonomically correct way. < 1257687826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah I have to use the thumb for s when my palm is able to reach ctrl. otherwise I have to curl up the fingers rather badly. < 1257687855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on laptop it doesn't work at all < 1257687879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fn is outermost and you can't really get the hand in the right position for it there anyway < 1257687899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fn can't be remapped because it doesn't work like normal keys < 1257687935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't generate a key event in fact, until you press some other key as well < 1257687955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1257687956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/8YeGr.png < 1257687956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/1W6iS.png < 1257687984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1257688012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3887360487_ca719998f0_o.jpg one isn't feasible < 1257688019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no XT→anything adapters available < 1257688046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, build one? < 1257688072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That idea fails right at the start as I couldn't get an FPGA with an XT input for obvious reasons. < 1257688094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't really mind the layout being more "conventional"; I'm pretty sure the weird-style keys aren't very nice anyway. < 1257688105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Esc next to the 1? Hot hot hot. Want. < 1257688108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but I can just remap that. < 1257688134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I fail to see why that is required. Just build a circuit that converts the pins from the keyboard to the right voltage ranges for an FPGA and put that in between. < 1257688137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1257688144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not even need that. < 1257688147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get a slot for the pins to go into, you see. < 1257688155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, solder the wires onto it? < 1257688170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This idea keeps getting worse, worse, and more out of my league. < 1257688180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, look at the position of Esc in http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&stc=1&d=1247095102 < 1257688183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nezxt to Num Lock < 1257688184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Next < 1257688187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above 7 < 1257688197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay that is a good reason. But soldering the wires directly to the circuit board wouldn't be hard. < 1257688200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That numpad button layout is freaky-deaky < 1257688226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, esc is where numlock usually is? < 1257688233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Num Lock is next to it < 1257688235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on modern ones I mean < 1257688282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That board could work quite well even on a modern computer actually. Remap the keys a bit to have a convenient Esc (if you want to use vim, that is). Map the Caps Lock to the Windows key (for e.g. controlling window manager and other keyboard shortcuts) (bottom-right key below right shift). You already have Ctrl and Alt in a semi-convenient place. < 1257688296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who could resist assigning a bank of hotkeys to that lovely F block? < 1257688339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember when he last used escape in emacs
< 1257688350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you press Alt, kiddo. < 1257688361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but I meant the key marked esc < 1257688373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never, it's identical to holding Altt. < 1257688374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Alt < 1257688381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know that < 1257688400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering if I ever used esc instead of holding alt < 1257688403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257688504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a better picture of the usable-today Model F: < 1257688511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8276/img3347nvm.jpg < 1257688515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(big) < 1257688524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus connector. < 1257688542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look at the LEDs. < 1257688549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caps Lock, Num Lock, Scroll Lock. < 1257688550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaky! < 1257688553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't there keyboards with up to F24 or such? < 1257688560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminal boards? Yeah. < 1257688567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it would be annoying only having up to F10 < 1257688569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things were fucking beasts. < 1257688570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than F12 < 1257688576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1257688583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The F keys are pretty unused. < 1257688596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh. Switching between VTs in linux for example? < 1257688609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, just map Windows+F1-2 to F11-12 < 1257688617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows being the Caps Lock in that picture < 1257688624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't use that many consoles. < 1257688631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even 6 terminals is a lot. < 1257688636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Caps Lock, Num Lock, Scroll Lock. < 1257688636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Freaky! < 1257688638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1257688644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Num Lock goes first since forever. < 1257688652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good point < 1257688660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time Num Lock is on, so for the vast majority of time just the middle light will be on. < 1257688664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there are arrow keys there, you know. < 1257688672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You access them by turning off Num Lock. < 1257688679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, numlock is usually off in my experience? < 1257688690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does typing the numpad give numbers? < 1257688693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Num Lock is on. < 1257688697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it doesn't < 1257688718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this another "I am AnMaster and my obscure use case is the entire world" session? < 1257688725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. < 1257688731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm using the laptop :P < 1257688737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur hur hur < 1257688741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the Model F weighs 3 kg. < 1257688744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thereabouts. < 1257688766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should show this to everyone who claims that the Model M is built like a tank, ever. < 1257688771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a little bit more than an slightly above average laptop then? < 1257688777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* < 1257688777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a terminal Model F. That'd be a beast. < 1257688788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But not very evenly distributed. < 1257688791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing will feel HEAVY. < 1257688805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you mean? < 1257688811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A terminal Model F would have all the crazy F keys, the numpad-like arrow key formation with the middle button, a few weird-ass keys... < 1257688820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is heavier at one end? < 1257688826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a laptop isn't? < 1257688827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be gigantic, heavy as fuck, loud as fuck, tactile as fuck and AWESOME AS FUCK. < 1257688832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much at least) < 1257688848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say a Model F would feel 2x as heavy as a 3 kg laptop. < 1257688850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a guess, though. < 1257688858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, picture of a terminal keyboard? < 1257688871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will find a good one. Sec. < 1257688886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4833&stc=1&d=1254255319 < 1257688888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD. < 1257688891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Model M terminal board. < 1257688909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same but extra F keys? that's all? < 1257688914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1257688915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are blind. < 1257688918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a nice day. < 1257688918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a "rule" one too < 1257688920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more < 1257688924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is the rule one? < 1257688930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the arrow keys and the keys above, the whole keyblock to the left. < 1257688932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the numpad. < 1257688940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are GIGANTIC. < 1257688954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra keys are for terminals. < 1257688961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, numpad looks fairly normal apart from *some* of those blue labels < 1257688970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, I like the num lock key. It's scroll lock too. < 1257688974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a compromise for such a huge board. < 1257688981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It has a space key on the /. < 1257688985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "home/pgup" and such on the numeric ones. are on my keyboard < 1257688985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the + key doubles up as tab. < 1257688991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm *why* < 1257688998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accountants. < 1257689000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data entry. < 1257689002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the numpad is for. < 1257689005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1257689007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1257689010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you think it was for — emulating a calculator? < 1257689031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at that numpad area. "FidMk\n\nFA2\n\blue{PgUp}" < 1257689040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, and more on the side. < 1257689045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChgRq? Can't read it properly. < 1257689047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best key ever. < 1257689049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, more like a well aligned set of keys that you can use for 8 directions in tile based games (of course not) < 1257689058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just have that key and some modifiers. < 1257689063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do EVERYTHING. < 1257689075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1257689077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not numpad area < 1257689078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrow key area < 1257689080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1257689089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but why "rule"? < 1257689098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you press that I wonder < 1257689108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a horizontal rule in a word processor? Or something. < 1257689136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copy\n\nPlay". Did they have Logic Pro in the 1980s? :-P < 1257689144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Test" below that; how convenient. < 1257689147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer, test my software < 1257689152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Computer, test my software! < 1257689165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That huge terminal board is just 2.36 kg. < 1257689166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Copy\n\nPlay". Did they have Logic Pro in the 1980s? :-P <-- I don't get it? < 1257689174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So saying that the much smaller Model F is 3 kg... < 1257689179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and imagining a Model F terminal board... < 1257689180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TANK < 1257689186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset\nctrl\nquit? < 1257689187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1257689208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Logic Pro = Apple's acquiring of eMagic Logic = professional music software < 1257689219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad has Logic for the Atari ST. :-) < 1257689220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow at the "profile" picture in http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5264&page=2 < 1257689230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He bought the ST on the day it came out in the UK. < 1257689235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The risers on these are good fun, on the high setting the top is about 12cm off the desk:" < 1257689246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell < 1257689277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257689289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he works with music? < 1257689306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also that tab key is a bit strange < 1257689309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ← < 1257689316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → < 1257689317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ← < 1257689317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He used to be involved with that sort of stuff, but he's been a phone-call technician for an audio technology company for as long as I can remember. < 1257689318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1257689322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1257689327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the lower arrow wrong < 1257689328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1257689329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1257689330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Atari ST worked as of some years ago. < 1257689332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant* < 1257689332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it < 1257689345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It played Monkey Island like a champ; and old audio software sure is confusing. < 1257689350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least when you're a kid like I was... < 1257689361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is more confusing than modern audio software? < 1257689365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't it work any longer? < 1257689368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resolutions are fun; the high one is much taller than it is wide so it's hard to read any text. < 1257689379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; I haven't been to his house since ~2005. < 1257689393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? parents split up? :/ < 1257689394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, I'd say it's more confusing to get to know, but much more understandable after that. < 1257689397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a guess. < 1257689401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, when I was 3 < 1257689422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"atari monkey island" in google image source doth not produce useful results < 1257689432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Also, I'd say it's more confusing to get to know, but much more understandable after that. <-- "it" meaning modern or old? < 1257689435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. http://www.scummbar.com/games/monkey1/images/atari.gif < 1257689439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Old. < 1257689469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh that geekhack page you linked: http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/6110344/front_1v.jpg < 1257689471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*On < 1257689474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Model F terminal board! < 1257689479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1257689480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks just as much like a tank as I'd expect. < 1257689480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1257689492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the text under those F keys at the top < 1257689493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't read it < 1257689499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor can I. < 1257689622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why stop at 24 function keys < 1257689650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to match the current trend we should really have 64-bi^Wfunction keyboard < 1257689708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To input a number, hold down the keys F1-64 to insert a binary number, and hit enter." < 1257689711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It truly is 64-bits! < 1257689715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be an aircraft carrier! (continuing the military analogy) < 1257689735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257689736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inexplicably air- and space-borne ultimate half of an aircraft carrier. < 1257689759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "ultimate half" meaning? < 1257689778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was half of an aircraft carrier, and I turned my aircraft carriers into ultimate aircraft carriers, so... < 1257689781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The point thing.) < 1257689788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh THAT < 1257689789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257689810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea < 1257689814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LaTeX keyboard < 1257689822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with keys for commonly used stuff < 1257689847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a key marked \hphantom{ < 1257689850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257689870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a "math mode lock" < 1257689923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would change large parts of those special keys to math mode ones instead < 1257689931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there would have to be a math shift too) < 1257689971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, it seems AltGr really is "ISO Level3 Shift". Never knew < 1257690086 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257690325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want this: http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif < 1257690554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want one that works equally well in either hand (most likely impossible) < 1257690565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exist; finger-controlled. < 1257690571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumb trackballs appear to be better, however. < 1257690577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1257690580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant thumb ones. It could work however < 1257690585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having it swappable < 1257690598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pulling part of the left and right side away and switching their places < 1257690605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to be a cleaver design that could be mirrored < 1257690605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1257690620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I use both hands for mice normally? < 1257690635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a symmetric mouse for that reason
< 1257690643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason to with a trackball. Everything's stationary. < 1257690645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm using left, but just a while ago right < 1257690667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the fine motor skills you need in your thumb probably take a while to develop. < 1257690670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's best to have a keyboard without a number pad. < 1257690672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to reduce strain on thumb? < 1257690680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it's easier to reach by far. < 1257690681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for you maybe < 1257690688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any mousing. < 1257690709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, put the number pad on the side you don't use the mice on atm? < 1257690715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't care enough about the mouse to chop off the number pad for your main computer-usage board, don't bother paying the extra for a trackball. < 1257690716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, movable number pad < 1257690724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get a $5 mouse because you clearly don't care about your pointing experience. < 1257690730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's because I use the number pad... < 1257690764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then obviously the immense pain of swapping keyboards when you need the number pad, or plugging in a separate numberpad, outweighs all advantages of pointing to you. < 1257690770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just get a $5 mouse. < 1257690780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Separate numberpads do exist and are easily available.) < 1257690844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an aside, do you know if Xkb can be told to use a different key map for a separate numpad than for the primary keyboard? < 1257690861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH, THE OTHER KEYBOARDIC PERSON HERE hi < 1257690866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1257690871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears as a separate keyboard, yyeah? < 1257690879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you missed my point completelt < 1257690881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "appears as" < 1257690882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely* < 1257690887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1257690894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I try stuff out in xev I see no difference between them < 1257690908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You know, the intent of communication is to transfer a thought to someone else. If I misunderstood that's not my fault. < 1257690919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do they appear as different keyboard objects, so to speak < 1257690920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where I could see a difference between which keyboard a keypress came from < 1257690923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different devices < 1257690927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same goes in the other direction I assume? :P < 1257690929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check what X thinks its xorg.conf is < 1257690931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1257690932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Where would I check? < 1257690936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X -configure < 1257690939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root < 1257690947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seem to blame me for not understanding you a lot... < 1257690951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will start X, dump a hueg liek xbox config file into your current dir, and tada < 1257690959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but I readily admit I'm a hypocrite. < 1257690994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use input hotplugging, keyboards aren't in xorg.conf. < 1257691000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sigh < 1257691018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: irrelevant < 1257691024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X -configure dumps everything it has right now < 1257691029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even works on HAL < 1257691038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd require stopping X. :-/ < 1257691063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah. < 1257691078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detach all the processes from X11 somehow so you can reattach them. Somehow. :P < 1257691088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, if X was well-designed they wouldn't depend on the X server being alive to stay alive... < 1257691129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just stopped X. < 1257691131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try xinput(1) maybe= < 1257691134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257691135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one InputDevice. < 1257691147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Write two sections manually, I guess. < 1257691149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah -configure wouldn't help < 1257691153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hotplug PS/2 anyway. < 1257691164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*officially < 1257691168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worked fine for me so far. :-P < 1257691173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the numpad's USB anyway. < 1257691185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only one PS/2 port necessitates that.) < 1257691222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a nickel, kid; go buy one more PS/... no, wait... one less PS/... no, um, never mind. < 1257691258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if scrolling with a wheel-less trackball is practical. < 1257691313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if I need MPX for this to work. < 1257691378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I evidently have MPX, since it's in 1.7. < 1257691455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe that's what broke my key repeat settings recently. < 1257691486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pressing any key apart from numlock on the numpad causes backspace [capslock] to no longer repeat) < 1257691582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mpx? < 1257691608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=mpx < 1257691672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old school, all the kids are using lmgtfy < 1257691684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPX is for, you know, pointers, innit? < 1257691690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for being old school < 1257691695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say it was bad < 1257691699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmgtfy requires javascript, which AnMaster won't have enabled < 1257691721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your client does not have permission to get URL /custom?q=mpx&sa=Search&client=pub-5834014132134539&forid=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en from this server. (Client IP address: 212.183.134.129) < 1257691722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1257691728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: He probably disabled meta refreshes too. < 1257691738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt lynx supports them, actually. < 1257691743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it elinks he uses. < 1257691749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page links to the appropriate google search directly. < 1257691753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Konqueror broke it in KHTML "Dead and Buried" 33.4 < 1257691763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a 403 for me, at least :P < 1257691767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The redirect) < 1257691776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about the link, not the redirect. < 1257691786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, the links, of which there are three. < 1257691799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redirect seems to work fine for me. < 1257691896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, w3m < 1257691904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's ais523. < 1257692332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee, nice syntax. < 1257692864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a point, i'm a ball, i'm a stick, i'm a stall < 1257693259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, that's ais523. <-- huh? I use both lynx and w3m. I don't use links2 much, and elinks I don't even have installed < 1257693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stenotype, stenotype machine or shorthand machine is a specialized chorded keyboard or typewriter used by stenographers for shorthand use. In order to pass the Registered Professional Reporter test, a trained court reporter or closed captioner must write speeds of approximately 180, 200, and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can even reach 300 < 1257693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per minute and per the website of the California Official Court Reporters Association the official record for American English is 375 wpm. < 1257693506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"closed captioner"? < 1257693554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many users of this machine can even reach 30 < 1257693554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : per minute" < 1257693558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem right < 1257693561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did a 0 get lost there? < 1257693564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=closed+captioner < 1257693566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257693571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And " words " < 1257693574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The righardware template is no good, so I'm not using it." < 1257693608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :righardware? < 1257693688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so that is what closed captioning is < 1257693909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :righardware is a template on the wearable computing wiki. < 1257693960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Steno-example.gif < 1257694014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty, but what the heck is that mapping? < 1257694036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:16] ehird: A stenotype, stenotype machine or shorthand machine is a specialized chorded keyboard or typewriter used by stenographers for shorthand use. In order to pass the Registered Professional Reporter test, a trained court reporter or closed captioner must write speeds of approximately 180, 200, and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can < 1257694038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reach 300 words per minute and per the website of the California Official Court Reporters Association the official record for American English is 375 wpm. < 1257694042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1257694044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stenospeak < 1257694045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that < 1257694053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I asked for encoding table or such < 1257694061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenographersv < 1257694063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1257694064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenographers < 1257694266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Many users of this machine can even reach 30 < 1257694268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : per minute" < 1257694270 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He meant 30 pages. < 1257694289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 225 words per minute at very high accuracy in the categories of literary, jury charge, and testimony, respectively,.[1] Many users of this machine can even reach 300 words per minute and per the < 1257694292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I absolutely did not. < 1257694293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stenographers can write a book in ten minutes. < 1257694301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype has the mapping < 1257694308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you joking or what :P < 1257694567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1257695511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed that mac os thinks that sheepshaver's emulated disks are "internal floppy drive"s. A 500 MB floppy drive eh < 1257695534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1257695535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basilisk II ftw. < 1257695539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, awit. < 1257695541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one that sucks < 1257695542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: gnash actually ... like ... works 'n stuff. < 1257695543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda. < 1257695544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mini vMac ftw. < 1257695550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not on YouTube last I tried. < 1257695560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again I couldn't be fucked to compile it myself, I just used Ubuntu's package < 1257695561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it can't run the old games I want. Not even Basilisk II can < 1257695561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using YouTube right now. < 1257695566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CPU usage? < 1257695566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm on sidux :P < 1257695567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mini vmac is for even older < 1257695577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mini vMac is = Basilisk II in recentness. < 1257695580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulates a Mac Pluss. < 1257695581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Pretty high, but only one of my quadcore. < 1257695586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sidux? Frls? xd < 1257695587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xD < 1257695594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basilisk II emulates a quadra iirc? < 1257695599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, great, so it's just like the actual Flash player but it works less. < 1257695599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1257695610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm actually using sidux. It's awesomesauce. < 1257695614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a setting. But Mac Plus is fine for 68k. < 1257695624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's it got over sid < 1257695642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257695657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They have a repo of stuff that's sort of a fixed-sid. It's a little bit intermediate between sid and testing. < 1257695694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just use testing since, you know, Debian devs won't pander to people who want a "stable sid" so sidux is kinda fighting the tide. < 1257695699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1257695707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a lie; I'd actually use mine. Which I need to name really quickly. < 1257695753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had used testing, I'm trying out sidux now. < 1257695866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AsOfYetUnnamedThing FTW! < 1257695869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally kick-raddin'. < 1257695876 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257695879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it existed yet. < 1257695883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need hardwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. < 1257695891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a war that is hard is what I need. < 1257696784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've already switched to proprieflash :P < 1257696817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, emulator to begin with? < 1257696838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulator? I hardly knew 'er! < 1257696853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emulator? Damn near killed 'em!) < 1257696873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought that was a keyboard layout for a second < 1257696874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257696875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1257696940 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1257696964 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257697010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay sntax < 1257697012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1257697053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO A NEW XKCD. It's an unfunny non-joke like always < 1257697128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257698005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, rwx.st got squatted days after I saw it was available. < 1257698027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Swedish to me; AnMaster — some broadband company? < 1257698047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bahnhof.se/ is the company, it seems. < 1257698059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bahnhof.se/privat/ < 1257698059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1257698063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1257698063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an ISP in Sweden iirc. Or maybe backbone company < 1257698064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1257698064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahnhof är Sveriges största oberoende och fristående internetoperatör." < 1257698096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bahnhof is Sweden's largest independent and freestanding internet operator" < 1257698880 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1257698918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? Hm < 1257698920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1257699449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do a zen pogrom, you first have to learn not to do a zen pogrom. < 1257699452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION comes up with a fun little *unixy* design for a combined screen saver/locker
< 1257699511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, a unixy design would clearly have the screen saver and locker as separate programs < 1257699534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. In fact that is what xscreensaver does < 1257699544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for security reasons < 1257699554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, mine does < 1257699561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, a screen saver can be any program at all, no special api < 1257699577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it has to be full screen though? < 1257699586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said "combined"... < 1257699591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, sort of < 1257699591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the locker basically just does the magic locking, overlays the screen with black, and then optionally starts your screensaver program < 1257699602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that isn't combined < 1257699605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, ffs < 1257699610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd listen < 1257699613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, no point explaining < 1257699615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how? it runs two apps < 1257699626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the locker, and the app on top < 1257699629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, they're not apps, they're programs. < 1257699632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, there is no secondly < 1257699655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define the difference between an application and a program? < 1257699666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an application is what WIMP guis have < 1257699677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is a self-contained black-box like a function < 1257699687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1257699692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unixy programs are either written in C or compositions of other programs. < 1257699705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's combined because you can use it to do both, duh < 1257699715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a combined screen locker/saver *engine- < 1257699718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**engine* < 1257699731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it doesn't include any actual screen savers doesn't mean it isn't a combined screen locker/saver < 1257699800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very zen. < 1257699861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've eaten semi-recently and i'm not tired, so i'm fairly sure either the sides of my bed swapped overnight making me exit through the wrong one, or you're all being especially annoying today :| < 1257699872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1257699883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage of the design is that you can use any program as the screensaver < 1257699897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xlogo, glxgears, even an xterm running top or something < 1257699897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally if the sides swapped you must now be in the mirror universe < 1257699903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a goatee? < 1257699907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1257699910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1257699911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1257699918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1257699920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, you could even run xscreensaver's screensaver < 1257699924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to, for some reason < 1257699931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the locker though, that'd Break Shit) < 1257699940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1257699962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a changing screensaver is just a shell script that goes through a list in random order, spawns it, sleeps N seconds, kills it, and runs the next one < 1257699995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the locker will capture all keyboard and mouse events so it's safe) < 1257700238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you could even set the screensaver to a program that turns off the display < 1257700272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might not be that simple since it has to turn back on to show the password prompt or return to the computer, but easy enough < 1257700497 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257700598 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh do you have a *goatee*, was kinda far from the screen and thought oerjan asked if you had a goatse, like mirror universe => inverse ass... or something < 1257700658 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's my contribution -> < 1257700697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now you are just talking out your ass < 1257700749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out of < 1257701626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is *.wps < 1257701649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed word perfect but that didn't work. file(1) says "microsoft office document" but trying as that doesn't work either < 1257701687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tried works too btw. < 1257701693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work either < 1257701696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1257701724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Microsoft Works. < 1257701732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't works .wks? < 1257701743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I just googled. Like you should have. < 1257701752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detailed information for file extension WPS: < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primary association: Works < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Company: Microsoft Corporation < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mime type: application/vnd.ms-works, application/x-msworks-wp, zz-application/zz-winassoc-wps, text/plain < 1257701753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identifying characters Hex: D0 CF 11 E0 A1 B1 1A E1 00 , ASCII: < 1257701754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program ID: MicrosoftWorks.WordProcessor.5 , MSWorks4WordProcessor , Works.Word.Document.8 < 1257701755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it didn't work to convert from that < 1257701755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related links: Microsoft Office Home Page, MS Article: Open Works in Word, OpenOffice.org < 1257701761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converter's fault. < 1257701780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried MS word's own works converter < 1257701838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Works itself. < 1257701852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't have it < 1257701857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirate it. < 1257701874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes too long. Told the person to re-send it as rtf < 1257701884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't you do that first thing? < 1257701924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3502&stc=1&d=1249088737 < 1257701925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because there is a certain risk of having to tell the person how to do that. < 1257701925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pictured: a Boscom keyboard being dropped from a ladder. < 1257701929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In stop motion! < 1257701929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be possibly worse < 1257701951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it work after? < 1257701954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3503&stc=1&d=1249088928 < 1257701954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why did they do that < 1257701955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Various parts jumping ship. < 1257701968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think so, yes. To see how high you need to drop it from to destroy the rivets. < 1257701986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's MythBusters-style "science" and it's hilarious. < 1257701996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even with those parts jumping out of it? < 1257702004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just parts of the rivets, I believe. < 1257702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3509&stc=1&d=1249142093 < 1257702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, it's bendy! Nice ergonomic keyboard. < 1257702030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's surprising is that plugging it in MOST of the keys work fine - All the Function keys, most of the main cluster except the left modifiers. Numpad and weird keys on left are toast. Not bad for a 12 foot concrete drop." < 1257702042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Look, it's bendy! Nice ergonomic keyboard. <-- huh? < 1257702051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look closely. < 1257702061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case has been warped by the drops. < 1257702066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right the bottom isn't straight < 1257702082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it isn't due to a wide angle camera lens? < 1257702093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I stole the joke from the post, I'm sure./ < 1257702099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1257702100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257702129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, n-key roll over? < 1257702176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Model Ms and followups (Unicomp (who took over from Lexmark who took over from IBM) are the OEM for Boscom) get something like 12-key rollover. Or was it 20? < 1257702181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not n-key, that's a recent thing. < 1257702186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But higher than your average board. < 1257702198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB only does 6-key rollover anyway, and only gamers complain. < 1257702214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most keyboards in general only get about 3-key rollover. < 1257702215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kinda moot. < 1257702259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does modifier keys count separately? < 1257702289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It varies based on the matrix. It's very complicated. < 1257702295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few standard tests to work out the rollover. < 1257702298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my main issue is that my current keyboard doesn't allow Alt-Space-Right arrow (alt-space-left-arrow works fine) < 1257702320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? ThinkPad? < 1257702322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remapping to ctrl makes ctrl-space-right work but not ctrl-space-left < 1257702326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, desktop < 1257702332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that crappy PS/2 < 1257702371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, when did you last see a laptop with full sized arrow keys? < 1257702396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My shitty netbook. < 1257702402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257702428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how I can middle-click a button in safari to submit a form in a new tab < 1257702431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great for e.g. search fields < 1257702461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that work in firefox (I don't think I ever tried) < 1257702509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop. < 1257702511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope* < 1257702533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ctrl+click < 1257702610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you know that Microsoft's Virtual PC was originally based on a mac program with the same name? < 1257702618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I just found a copy in an old box < 1257702625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still offered today. < 1257702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for mac? < 1257702631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257702634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257702646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 3.0 btw < 1257702657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In July 2006 Microsoft released the Windows-hosted version as a free product.[1] In August 2006 Microsoft announced the Macintosh-hosted version would not be ported to Intel-based Macintosh computers, effectively discontinuing the product as PowerPC-based Macintosh computers are no longer manufactured. The newest release, Windows Virtual PC is available only for Windows 7 hosts. < 1257702658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK < 1257702679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe I should try to install it under the mac emulator, and run linux in it < 1257702708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And run SheepShaver from the Linux. < 1257702715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure Virtual PC is Windows only though < 1257702717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest < 1257702725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, I ran linux under it before < 1257702730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1257702730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for it then < 1257702742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah will < 1257702777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name for a bug tracking system: Samsa < 1257702796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however, I'm sceptical of it working.... Sheepshaver isn't exactly reliable even with other programs. And VirtualPC did something to put the CPU in little endian mode iirc < 1257702954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh, starting virtualpc makes sheepshaver segfault. 100% reproducible. < 1257702960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try mini vmac. < 1257702968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no configuration required ;-) < 1257702970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs OS 8 or later. PPC < 1257702976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini vmac is ppc < 1257702998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean running mini vmac under sheepshaver? < 1257703004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1257703036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it isn't ppc < 1257703038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 68k < 1257703049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have a windows host you could try vmac < 1257703058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't it run on linux? < 1257703069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, vmac is 68k only too < 1257703083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it does run on linux yes < 1257703090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmainntained since '98 though :) < 1257703093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unmaintained < 1257703094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vmac.org/ < 1257703095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you think I'm using sheepshaver if there was an alternative for PPC OS 8/9 < 1257703096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1257703104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno? < 1257703109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1257703148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sheepshaver is crashy, and buggy. Like I want to run those old avernum games. Avernum 1 and avernum 2 works fine. Avernum 3 gives a blank screen. :( < 1257703150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc shell is so <3 < 1257703154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for blades of avernum < 1257703160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver is shit, basilisk ii is also shit but slightly less so < 1257703170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basilisk II is 68k < 1257703172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini vmac is 700x less shitty than both if you can do 68k < 1257703176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know that. < 1257703184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was running through all the current mac emulators < 1257703185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these games are PPC < 1257703191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1257703202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they might run under OS X. Not sure though < 1257703221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does intel OS X's rosetta support Carbon? Or only Coca? < 1257703223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Classic just runs OS 9 in OS X basically < 1257703230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports Carbon < 1257703236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I checked, they link to carbon. < 1257703238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1257703244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think classic binaries would work, Mach-O and the like ... < 1257703246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1257703250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257703251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to email them to penguinofthegods@gmail.com < 1257703253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll try them < 1257703259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there IS a chance they'll work < 1257703264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rosetta is just a ppc emulator, btw < 1257703266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fast one too < 1257703276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop cs3 is almost usable on this imac with it < 1257703282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's what people used on mac pros for a while < 1257703298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower than a g5, sure... but still probably the fastest totally-different-CPU emulator out there < 1257703311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can provide you with download link. They are shareware (only part of the game world available unregistered) with "response code" system. As in, on install they generate a key, and you have to enter a response key < 1257703320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are cracks around (that runs on windows) < 1257703326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1257703326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1257703329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cracks/keygens/ < 1257703334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec for download link < 1257703352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.bin < 1257703363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bin ;_; < 1257703369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about .bin? < 1257703373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the standard isn't it? < 1257703382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes ... ten years ago < 1257703383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hqx is more annoying < 1257703401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That download appears to have failed, I'll try wget < 1257703402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could download it and repack it as .sit.hqx I guess... < 1257703408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X does .bin it seems < 1257703422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know I wgeted it to the shared folder thing < 1257703423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such file `Avernum3.demo.bin'. < 1257703426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257703429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou failest to the top amount! < 1257703439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah try ftp://ftp.spiderwebsoftware.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.v101.bin < 1257703439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens the directory it's in
< 1257703440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1257703446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1257703454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works, how queer. < 1257703459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can see it in the folder, but eh. < 1257703463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The irony one) < 1257703466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Spider one works) < 1257703486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, spiderwebsoftware is the ones that produced it btw < 1257703519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the latter link is an older version. Oh heh it says they ported it to native OS X in the later version. < 1257703522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot < 1257703539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I guess if I could get OS X to run in some emulator I could use it < 1257703545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pearpc? < 1257703556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox + OSX86 < 1257703570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that works? Hardware compat and such I mean < 1257703570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest Snow Leopard, since it has the Intel optimisations < 1257703578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try qemu if not < 1257703583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow but usable, since it emulates real hardware < 1257703603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I'm pretty sure qemu doesn't emulate the right hardware. Some cirrus graphics card for exampl < 1257703607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example* < 1257703627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I heard OS X is incredibly picky about hardware? < 1257703668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSx86 people make drivers. < 1257703683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just install it to another partition < 1257703695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it'd have to be like 10 GiB < 1257703702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh" < 1257703710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc=`{echo $rc+1 | bc} < 1257703723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc's only disadvantage is that saying rc++ is loquacious :P < 1257703723 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-82.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257703759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly does that code do? < 1257703773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as rc=$(echo "$rc"+1 | bc) < 1257703781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1257703811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh something like (( rc++)) then? < 1257703813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; fn ++ { eval '$'^$1^'=`{echo $'^$1^'+1 | bc}' } < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; rc=3 < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; ++ rc < 1257703814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; echo $rc < 1257703815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1257703815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only we had something like Tcl's uplevel! XD < 1257703815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or let rc=rc+1 < 1257703817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1257703818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Warning: Awful hack above) < 1257703826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's rc=rc+1 < 1257703838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc is a shell, so you use a calculator command to calculate things. < 1257703850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not intended for mathematics-heavy code. < 1257703866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well right. But most programming languages have some way to increment variables. Even if not for math heavy things < 1257703868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very good as a scripting language; in fact, I don't see all that many uses for Python if you have rc. < 1257703871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, say, loops and such < 1257703880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seq(1) < 1257703890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(i in `{seq 10}) echo $i < 1257703901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not standard < 1257703906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if *BSD has it < 1257703911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is standard, it's a fucking shell < 1257703918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is that you compose together little unixy tools < 1257703920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean seq(1) isn't < 1257703921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1257703939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point < 1257703940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I won't bother putting your head, I'd have to flood empty lines for decades) < 1257703958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, if you have that tool it would work < 1257703980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah and what if you had a Python with all arithmetic capabilities removed?! < 1257703983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WOULDN'T WORK THEN < 1257703987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is unusable for arithmetic. < 1257704042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is? < 1257704050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I just proved it didn't I < 1257704063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work with it removed yes < 1257704074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't what you said in the last line < 1257704075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97% [====================================> ] 11,621,224 18.1K/s eta 19s < 1257704092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And that rc script won't remove if you remove a very useful tool like seq. < 1257704100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "dependencies". < 1257704107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All software has them. < 1257704108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't remove? won't work you mean? < 1257704116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typo. < 1257704148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man1/seq.html < 1257704156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9port has seq. Depend on that or something. < 1257704165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway such loops are useless generally. < 1257704173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very rare that a from i=0 to n can't be rephrased in a better way. < 1257704223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9port is where everyone gets their rc anyway, or the fork 9babse < 1257704225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*9base < 1257704231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/NeGZp.png < 1257704233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP SMILING AT ME MACINTOSH < 1257704237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not happy with you < 1257704238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am displeased < 1257704344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true "for i in foo" is often possible < 1257704355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when possible, better < 1257704358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other constructs. < 1257704364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is totally irrelevant, you know. < 1257704368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting. < 1257704373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did the more recent avernum 3 work? < 1257704380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually launch? < 1257704383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it for OS X? < 1257704394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, it will not work. Classic in OS X is dead, no longer supported, end of. < 1257704433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I understand it, yes. says "Avernum 3 runs natively under Macintosh OS X.". And that the last version no longer supports OS 9 and older < 1257704450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link. < 1257704468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/Avernum3.demo.bin (the spiderwebsoftware one was the older version) < 1257704469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles the Heirloom Toolchest
< 1257704475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bin? Not OS X. < 1257704479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, welcome to the club < 1257704480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean the dmg? < 1257704486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which club? < 1257704495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of having Heirloom Toolchest installed < 1257704518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, what a club. Not like you probably use it as your main tools... < 1257704523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coreutils *spits* < 1257704528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spits VENOM* < 1257704539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually /bin/vi is from heirloom :P < 1257704548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I don't use that) < 1257704550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1257704550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from nv < 1257704551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvi < 1257704556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same person different project < 1257704564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This demo is .bin, it's definitely Classic-only < 1257704569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Avenrum 4 dmg though < 1257704571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Avernum < 1257704580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, avernum 4 doesn't really interest me. Too modern :/ < 1257704694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay so I guess avernum 3 is a lost hope. But blades of avernum seems to have a dmg version too. That should work < 1257704703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1257704708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.ironycentral.com/mac/BladesofAvernumDemo.dmg < 1257704713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will download soon. < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc install_ucb.o -L../libcommon -lcommon -o install_ucb < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined symbols: < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "_pfmt_label__", referenced from: < 1257704728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _pfmt_label__$non_lazy_ptr in libcommon.a(getopt.o) < 1257704729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: symbol(s) not found < 1257704730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1257704730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, althrough it says "demo" it is the same as the full one. A bit strange < 1257704743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no fucking clue. Never hit that. < 1257704750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would remember < 1257704772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is this mach-O or ELF? < 1257704790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macho < 1257704794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heirloom < 1257704796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257704804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if it was related to that < 1257704863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I wonder what sort of linker trick they are doing to cause that. < 1257704874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, it's regular code. < 1257704881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an undefined symbol. < 1257704900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the $non_lazy_ptr bit? < 1257704943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and: can you find the definition elsewhere in the code? < 1257704980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too lazy, already rm -rf'd. < 1257704991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw did you make -j? < 1257704996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or single thread? < 1257705028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling suggests there is a pfmt_label.c around < 1257705033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make < 1257705040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i got configuration wrong blah blah < 1257705043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no possible race condition about that then < 1257705049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. Complex config? < 1257705062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some make variables, skimmed them < 1257705076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to care, going to continue fawning over my awesome latex-style syntax < 1257705161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latex-style syntax for? < 1257705167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell? < 1257705197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written-in-rc little web publishing-style system, because I need to get off my arse and publish software ands tuff. < 1257705199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and stuff < 1257705225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything wrong with markdown? < 1257705228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensible, so it's sort of like a web framework that also handles navigation and other site-like things for you. < 1257705230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except much simpler. < 1257705230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and similar) < 1257705261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes; it's kind of ugly, some bits are unintuitive, and fundamentally it fails at being so easy as to not require thinking, but it's "free" enough to require even more thought, as your brain doesn't go into code mode. < 1257705275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, mine is simpler, and handles more advanced structures better. < 1257705278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc there was some sort of "hypercard for the web" software called "livecard" or something like that. Maybe that would work? XD < 1257705282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl. < 1257705327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~pinto/hc4.html (search for "How can I get my HyperCard stack on the web") < 1257705342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks but no thanks. < 1257705548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, Model Ms are "technically" 2-key rolloverr < 1257705552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rollover < 1257705557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "ASX" fails < 1257705572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does ghn work? < 1257705579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Most combinations should work. < 1257705587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without n-key rollover you'll always have edge cases. < 1257705594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they have the same relative placement though < 1257705599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my point < 1257705606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1257705609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how the matrix works. < 1257705610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the AT Model Fs are N-key rollover. < 1257705628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never studied keyboards much, wouldn't know < 1257705700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboards are awesome < 1257705757 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1257705815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This site uses AJAX to generate page content. You need to enable Javascript in your browser and reload the page in order to see it." <-- argh. That is quite horrible. < 1257705830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which page? < 1257705835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alex.csgraf.de/self/?qemu/ < 1257705853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found when reading various stuff about OSx86. < 1257705854 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257705858 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257705859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linked from virtualbox forum < 1257705867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post from 2007 so could be completely outdated info < 1257705890 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257705924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mac OS X is a really great Operating System. They did a lot of things right, especially in the Interface parts. Sadly it is neither the fastest Operating System, nor the securest out there." < 1257705926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_x < 1257705928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD retard? < 1257705933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is a pretty fucking secure BSD... < 1257706023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nazgul.ch/dev_nostromo.html seems to be a decent httpd... sure would be nice not to have to write my own :P < 1257706047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thttpd? < 1257706054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about as minimal as you can get < 1257706082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen at http://www.nazgul.ch/dev_nostromo.html thttpd is about as scalable than nostromo, and nostromo is about as minimal as thttpd. < 1257706090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference is that thttpd is practically unmaintained. < 1257706117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they didn't test with more than 300 clients? < 1257706123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a large aspect of thttpd, "It also has one extremely useful feature (URL-traffic-based throttling) that no other server currently has.", is totally useless to me. < 1257706135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: running server benchmarks takes a lot of resources, and besides: < 1257706142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apache 1.3.29 < 1257706142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Client: resurrection, Sun Ultra 2, SPARC 400MHz, 100Mbit NIC < 1257706143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server: gollum, Intel, x86 3GHz, 100Mbit NIC < 1257706151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty old yeah < 1257706159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can clearly see from the graph that nostromo scales linearly. < 1257706168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from CGI. < 1257706171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to level off there. < 1257706182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what caused the spike in http://www.nazgul.ch/images/httperf_small-l.png. < 1257706197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect nostromo will level off at some point too. Just a hunch. < 1257706210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does use select() after all. < 1257706216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257706233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course nothing can scale linearly, don't you know the first thing about computers? Limited resources. < 1257706253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But I meant before something using epoll will level off. < 1257706256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch. < 1257706258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1257706262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because epoll is shiny and new? < 1257706288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because epoll doesn't need to send the fd list to the kernel every time you want to wait for something to happen < 1257706347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. It doesn't really matter all that much. < 1257706349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with many concurrent clients that might all send you some data soon, this could be an issue. < 1257706365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, CGI will be a bottleneck far before select. < 1257706386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just showing that nostromo scales as well as thttpd, which is a good indicator of simplicity and good design. < 1257706397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc http allows you to reuse a connection for several requests? Like fetching images related to the page in the same connection. Might be HTTP/1.1 only or such < 1257706412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't give a damn about that < 1257706417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wrote a server I probably wouldn't support it < 1257706471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that allowed by standard? Because if it isn't I'm fairly certain that it might cause problems with modern browsers. At least firefox makes use of it. < 1257706475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably other browsers too < 1257706494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if the browser sends Connection: keep-alive or whatever it is but the connection closes anyway it just makes a new connection. < 1257706505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1257706507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of situations where it doesn't work, I believe. < 1257706512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No biggie. < 1257706518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway. You probably won't need to scale that much in the beginning. If you find out it doesn't scale you could replace it with something else < 1257706529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1257706551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in fast page loads with no-to-little load. < 1257706562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on the computer? < 1257706568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over the interwebternets. < 1257706593 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257706594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the actually applicable situation; of course, I want pages to load very quickly (perfectly possible, e.g. Cherokee achieves this without any tweaking), and I probably won't get many concurrent visitors. < 1257706596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that depends on your page size basically. You probably want to send it compressed < 1257706605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its actually not that i need a watch, see < 1257706616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compression is good but there are lots of other things too < 1257706632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grandmother is insisting on getting me a christmas gift, despite me adamant protests < 1257706648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"despite me adamant protests". Yooth slang! < 1257706651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("me" for "my") < 1257706655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what augur needs is a watchmaker *ducks* < 1257706664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some cognitive dissonance as soon as you hit "adamant" < 1257706670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sings
< 1257706672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well make it something useful then < 1257706672 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchmaker watchmaker make meeee a watch < 1257706674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can Cherokee do "compress and cache" on the fly? Like for *.html, if there is a compressed variant of the file in the cache directory, use it, otherwise compress it and cache it. Oh and re-compress and cache if the html page has been updated. < 1257706679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its not actually youth slang < 1257706686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. < 1257706688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for south in the south it might be < 1257706688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know these things. < 1257706692 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1257706696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You constantly ask people if things can do things < 1257706698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i dont NEED anything, ehird! :| < 1257706699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because they mentioned the first thing < 1257706703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how knowledge works < 1257706704 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257706704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it < 1257706727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh. Sorry. But Imight just add that lighttpd has that feature. Pretty nice. < 1257706730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody needs love < 1257706735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine most httpds have it. < 1257706735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still shouldn't be hard to make something similar < 1257706746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an example of a page that loads really quickly: http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Front%20Page < 1257706750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. but this nhttpd looks a bit limited? < 1257706756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Adjust for distance from the server, of course) < 1257706760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Important things it does: < 1257706772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one HTTP request; no or anything < 1257706774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quite fast yes. Probably not a lot to fetch. Something like html page plus one css? < 1257706776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1257706779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cSS < 1257706780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CSS < 1257706782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1257706790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus very minimalist markup (apart from whitespace) < 1257706793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume gzip compression < 1257706798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, a minimalist webserver (Factor's) < 1257706800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume caching < 1257706807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No gzip < 1257706810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimalist! < 1257706810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1257706812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use a for CSS because I'm lazy, but eh < 1257706817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Damn fast for no gzip < 1257706822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe gzip processing time outweighed it < 1257706826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an advantage of not embedding the css in the page though. And that is if the person looks at more than one of your site's pages. < 1257706834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nhttpd isn't limited, it's just minimalist < 1257706854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighttpd may look minimalist coming from apache... but that's a seriously skewed comparison < 1257706872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with separate css file that will be cached. You could also send some cache control headers to not make the browser recheck if the cached copy is up-to-date iirc < 1257706872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nginx is more minimalist than lighttpd by quite an amount and just about as featureful < 1257706878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it doesn't leak memory, and it scales better) < 1257706881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until some time later) < 1257706882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still has a lot of needless features < 1257706894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: concatenative's is faster in practice, though < 1257706901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's counterintuitive, but requests seem to be very expensive < 1257706902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never ran into the memory leak issue < 1257706913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lighttpd leaks memory like a sieve in many common configurations. < 1257706927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you haven't run into it but it casts doubt on its engineering. < 1257706949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed it does. Open bug reports? < 1257706963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These issues are very well known, I am certain bug reports exist < 1257706979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've existed for years, so most people who've heard about them or especially run into them have just abandoned lighttpd < 1257706982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: concatenative's is faster in practice, though <-- maybe. dropping the whitespace would be a good idea however. < 1257706998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of the templating language, I think < 1257706998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1257706999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1257707001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <% < 1257707003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code blah < 1257707003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%> < 1257707004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1257707008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for gzip, well you could make it serve already gziped pages? < 1257707012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got the \n and spaces before the <% < 1257707017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you don't plan to pre-generate from static pages? < 1257707020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that gets added to the output < 1257707027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm talking about concatenative.org < 1257707027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to static* < 1257707029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't mine < 1257707032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a dynamic site < 1257707036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so already gzipping isn't ppractical < 1257707038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practical < 1257707040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1257707044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I'm not going to use static pages < 1257707048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1257707059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much fuss in coding, dynamic pages are simpler to write and let you do fancier stuff < 1257707069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do fancier stuff by doing a hybrid static+dynamic system... but dear god no. That's just asking for pain. < 1257707070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can cache pre-rendered dynamic versions < 1257707073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc wikipedia does this < 1257707075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No point. < 1257707084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast enough? Then don't add complexity. < 1257707093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially dealing with cache invalidation... *shudder* < 1257707180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only needed on update of page or update of the navigation stuff. And if you only cache the page content (and not the navigation stuff) then it is trivial. < 1257707228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could cache them separately like: shared pre-content, page content, shared post-content < 1257707234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true if you have simple static content. < 1257707240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But dynamic stuff? < 1257707253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. But what exactly do you plan to have on the page? < 1257707256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think cache invalidation for dynamic web content is easy... shut up until you actually have to deal with it. < 1257707262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything. Extensible, remember>? < 1257707264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remember? < 1257707285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Isn't this second system syndrome done already for the first system? < 1257707292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, no. < 1257707300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extensible in the same way a web framework is. < 1257707303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a toolchest. < 1257707330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles navigation, the basic web stuff and hierarchical pages, you add your stuff to it. < 1257707360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://werc.cat-v.org/ does this already although the system has some design differences to mine. It's also written in rc. Do you think this extensibility and power necessitates bloat? < 1257707365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes time to learn one. Which is why there are so many. It is often easier to make your own than try to learn one someone else wrote < 1257707367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because werc's core is 150 lines of rc shell. < 1257707389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Irrelevant, almost all the existing frameworks are both bloated, or don't do things they should. < 1257707412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dichotomy of web framework vs "website hierarchy manager thingybob" is false; the very fact that it's hard to name the second one shows this — it's an integral part. < 1257707434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell would a "website hierarchy manager thingybob" thing be? < 1257707435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, using werc as an example again, it's basically CGI + some functions + some variables. You don't even have to write the apps in rc. < 1257707446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, example of such < 1257707448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I explained before, try keeping a backlog in your mind because you're discarding every line by the next one. < 1257707460 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257707470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you mean like werc? or does that fit in the former? < 1257707482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:08] ehird: It handles navigation, the basic web stuff and hierarchical pages, you add your stuff to it. < 1257707494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (website hierarchy manager thingybob + web framework). < 1257707495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the former then < 1257707502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, werc is a (website hierarchy manager thingybob + web framework). < 1257707517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so the latter isn't a subset of the former? < 1257707520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257707525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't really any standalone website hierarchy manager thingybobs. Some CMSs are similar, but they're really shit.. < 1257707527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit. < 1257707538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two things naturally belong together, and having them be the same thing makes both simpler. < 1257707555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway you plan to do cgi? *shudder* < 1257707573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you complain about CGI you must complain about FastCGI, which is just CGI with a server layer and some extra crazy crap. < 1257707591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on the reason for complaining about cgi. < 1257707594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two < 1257707603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on, I'm up for rebutting. < 1257707605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is performance. FastCGI is somewhat better when it comes to that. < 1257707622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is that it is rather ugly to code in, when it comes to this FastCGI is definitely even worse < 1257707623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. The overhead Apache and other shit servers add far outweighs a simple server with CGI. < 1257707633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say apache < 1257707638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite ugly to code in directly, which is the whole reason I'm writing my thingy. < 1257707640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even lighttpd. < 1257707650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't ngnix support fastcgi? < 1257707657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1257707668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and no CGI. http://suckless.org/ uses a CGI-wrapping fastcgi to run werc on nginx, heh. < 1257707686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, even nginx has needless features. A FastCGI-like thing is of course needed if you have a very popular website. < 1257707696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway there is a solution. And that is to integrate the dynamic pages more tightly with the web server. Like yaws. < 1257707703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest SCGI; it's a very light protocol and no FastCGI-like cruft. < 1257707707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you would hate yaws < 1257707709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no solution needed. < 1257707711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in search of a problem. < 1257707723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It found one: "CGI is slow on most web servers". < 1257707728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem there is most web servers... < 1257707730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, SCGI is pretty nice yes. < 1257707743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem it should try to find is "really popular sites fail with CGI even on minimalist web servers". < 1257707758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's niche, and solutions searching for problems seem to try and find the most general one they can. < 1257707779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you'll say google would use CGI next :P < 1257707792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google isn't really popular? < 1257707793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1257707796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are that niche < 1257707797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257707808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it, at least. < 1257707810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and two other people < 1257707817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something like that) < 1257707892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can think of some more: twitter, youtube (except google bought them some time ago), possibly sites like last.fm and such. Not sure about slashdot (from what I remember they use something horrible java based crap) < 1257707898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/something/some/ < 1257707909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot is horrific, horrific Perl code that requires root and shits all over your system. < 1257707910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Slashcode) < 1257707914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh perl it was < 1257707920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it sf.net that used java? < 1257708008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257708029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1257708039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway probably sites like reddit too? < 1257708043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be in that niche < 1257708048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives an example http response from his httpd if he'd write one to see how anmaster reacts
< 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 < 1257708051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1257708051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...content... < 1257708082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare with w3.org, one of the *lighter* sites header-wise... http://pastie.org/689155.txt?key=v492i5n9ybfvshobv4iwa < 1257708084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure there should be one or two more headers there. Anyway what about virtual hosts? < 1257708098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially providing the "human-readable" thing like < 1257708103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 403 Permission Denied < 1257708105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't you need "Content-Length: 29707"? < 1257708106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pointless < 1257708109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 403 < 1257708111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works just the same < 1257708118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope < 1257708123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just for static files < 1257708126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give their length < 1257708129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably include it though < 1257708134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would require people to check. Unless you provide an error page as well < 1257708146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, people don't see the http headers. < 1257708152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyone who does know what the code means. < 1257708155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knows < 1257708157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and wget -c will fail with your web server < 1257708167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 < 1257708168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-length: 6345 < 1257708169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1257708169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to resume downloads that broke down in the middle < 1257708171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1257708175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accept-Ranges: bytes < 1257708175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No it won't. < 1257708176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is missing < 1257708181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure it will < 1257708185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't resume from the middle < 1257708196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c will try and resume in the request, and the server will comply. < 1257708198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1257708209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it makes a dummy request to see if it's supported before trying, which is retarded. < 1257708213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, then, fine: < 1257708223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well okay, I guess you could accept it without telling anyone you did < 1257708231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type: xxx/warez-porn < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-length: 6345 < 1257708232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accept-ranges: bytes < 1257708248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an etag: header for caching. < 1257708250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was more thinking this would be useful for install iso's for your distro < 1257708267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no server tag to tell what server? < 1257708269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main thing is that pointless headers like Server: need to go, the pointless capitalisation needs to go, and the pointless response code names need to go < 1257708270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1257708281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason to lengthen every request with trivia < 1257708283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is the standard case insensitive? < 1257708286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sites that want you to know will tell you anyway < 1257708287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1257708302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you have against the capitalisation though < 1257708308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointless < 1257708309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter either way in load < 1257708320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We write our variable names in lowercase because caps look awkward < 1257708322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if it broke some clients < 1257708326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And headers are just an associative array < 1257708327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't. < 1257708335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, it means that it's simpler to collapse duplicate headers. < 1257708337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We write our variable names in lowercase because caps look awkward <-- we do? Well depends on language < 1257708342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to handle capitalisation, just lowercase everything < 1257708348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I do, at least. < 1257708366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some languages have foo = atom Foo = variable or similar < 1257708369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang for example < 1257708371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1257708373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1257708382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess I have to write this server now. < 1257708383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but in C I would use lower_case_with_underscore < 1257708390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet I can beat most other server's performance. < 1257708394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With less code, too. < 1257708399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say.... 500 SLOC? < 1257708403 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257708408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to brb now for about 15 minutes, then I guess I'll start. < 1257708411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably for small loads. Not sure with 5000 concurrent clients :P < 1257708412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess I'll < 1257708417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes with 5,000 concurrent clients. < 1257708422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 10k; C10k was a decade ago. < 1257708434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C10k? < 1257708442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure you could make it. But so can other servers < 1257708837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that c10k < 1257708839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257709169 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257709196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not just use that factor thing that you said was so fast? < 1257710465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1257710479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: various reasons. the sever itself isn't _that_ fast anyway < 1257710485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sure, but most servers don't < 1257710488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're shit. < 1257710542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, sure, but most servers don't <-- don't what? < 1257710558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do C10k < 1257710583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure lighttpd does for example. nginx probably does too? < 1257710594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... no. < 1257710606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no about which one? < 1257710621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just no. < 1257710626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not without some SERIOUS hardware. < 1257710635 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1257710639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And computers are big, too. You can buy a 1000MHz machine with 2 gigabytes of RAM and an 1000Mbit/sec Ethernet card for $1200 or so. Let's see - at 20000 clients, that's 50KHz, 100Kbytes, and 50Kbits/sec per client. It shouldn't take any more horsepower than that to take four kilobytes from the disk and send them to the network once a second for each of twenty thousand clients < 1257710655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C10k means you can do it on a single-core 1 GHz machine with 2 GiB of RAM and a 1 Gb/s Ethernet card. < 1257710656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about cheroke or such? < 1257710665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cherokee is very ununixy. < 1257710678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. but does it do c10k? < 1257710715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember what I said about asking people such things just because they mentioned the name of a thing...? < 1257710721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1257710737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to know about lighttpd and nginx? < 1257710755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain lighttpd and nginx can't do it on such specs. < 1257710762 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257710772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Another book which might be more helpful for those who are *using* rather than *writing* a web server is Building Scalable Web Sites by Cal Henderson.)" < 1257710773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, C10K mentions our own iamcal. < 1257710777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not technically our own. < 1257710799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Reilly published too. Swanky. < 1257710929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually: < 1257710929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, basic architecture: epoll(), probably fork(), pass over to handler. Have helper functions for headers and stuff. < 1257710952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[lighttpd] was originally written [...] as a proof-of-concept of the c10k problem (how to handle 10000 connections in parallel on one server),[1] but now has substantial worldwide popularity [...]" < 1257710954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia < 1257710963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean it met it. < 1257710967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1257710975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you are saying it didn't? < 1257710983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may well have. < 1257710984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fefe.de/fnord/2.5.50-scalability.png < 1257710995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.5.50 (old! but similar to 2.6) scalability of web servers. < 1257711004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing C10k I mean doing it gracefully, naturally. < 1257711012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking 30 seconds to load a page isn't acceptable. < 1257711055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's really usec, that Y axis only goes up to 60 milliseconds, which I guess is still pretty reasonable latency. < 1257711062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257711066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent scalability from both thttpd and fnord. fnord clearly wins though. < 1257711068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course. but taking twice the time as usual could be (if "usual" is tiny). Say 0.2 seconds instead of 0.1 (unreasonable example figures, just an example) < 1257711086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like 0.3 ms nearing C10k from fnord. < 1257711089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good latency. < 1257711096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why does the bar for fnord end early there? < 1257711103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bar almost < 1257711108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fnord plot ends at 8000 connections because I couldn't open more connections before fnord kept timing out the old ones" < 1257711112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1257711119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it doesn't really scale that well < 1257711120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257711122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the author of fnord; strikingly honest) < 1257711128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does < 1257711134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just times out like most servers < 1257711136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not *past* 8000 < 1257711142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misunderstand the quote < 1257711148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. But thttpd didn't? < 1257711167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because it doesn't do timeouts. < 1257711171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or because the timeout was set really high. < 1257711177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1257711188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hardware limitation. < 1257711198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why is there so little "noise" in the the fnord plot? < 1257711200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord is clearly more scalable on given hardware because the latency increases much more slowly. < 1257711201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the other ones < 1257711202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the latency < 1257711206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Good engineering.. < 1257711208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*engineering. < 1257711217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CGI (through pipes, not temp files like Apache)" < 1257711217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APACHE DOES CGI THROUGH TEMP FILES? >_< < 1257711219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it run in kernel space or user space? < 1257711225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Userspace, of course... < 1257711239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, APACHE DOES CGI THROUGH TEMP FILES? >_< <-- I would be surprised if it does any more in that case! < 1257711263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it would break if you were producing a large file dynamically for download < 1257711294 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257711308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thttpd is the fastest web server known to me." says fnord's author < 1257711318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fnord clearly scales better < 1257711337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fnord fork()s for every request, seems like that's a good architecture < 1257711342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unixy, so I should have guessed < 1257711394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would work on linux due to cheap fork() (mostly due to COW, but also pretty fast in other areas) < 1257711404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs too. < 1257711405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, I'm surprised < 1257711414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Threading servers have the same latency of fork() on Linux of course. < 1257711418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. < 1257711428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latency, I mean overhead < 1257711430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean < 1257711444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And event-based? < 1257711448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAH, THE CODE! < 1257711448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, potentially less on some bsds. m:n threads there. Though iirc freebsd at least switched to 1:1 since then < 1257711452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT MEANT FOR ANY MORTAL! < 1257711456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1257711466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link to a file from it? < 1257711476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event-based servers and async IO and all that stuff... with a language not designed for that sort of thing? < 1257711479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I can just open it directly in an editor) < 1257711484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't even go there. < 1257711487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so AIO in C? < 1257711487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No particular server. < 1257711503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIO and event-based servers may be faster than fork()ing servers... but it's not worth the payoff. < 1257711525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you mean fnord code XD < 1257711545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I have done event based IO in C. Worked on ircds after all. < 1257711569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that isn't AIO though, just non-blocking) < 1257711578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical of the common acceptance of asynchronous IO as the only way to do an ircd. < 1257711579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(have done AIO elsewhere too) < 1257711583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is really cheap. < 1257711589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you need IPC then < 1257711594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or channels won't work < 1257711605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it's called FIFO files... or a Unix socket < 1257711614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that is the main reason why you want one thread. Because they need to talk to each other a lot. In various directions < 1257711627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sounds like an excuse for spaghetti code < 1257711628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lots of channels and /msg out of nowhere < 1257711637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how so? < 1257711638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, but I'd have to write so much code that makes explicit the communication!" < 1257711641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing. < 1257711695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, an ircd is supposed to handle thousands of clients per server. Plus routing for lots more (multiple linked servers after all) < 1257711703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1257711716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will need to handle "send to other server" in some other way than a pipe per channel or such. < 1257711722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a fork()ing webserver can handle 8,000 clients at once in the era of Linux 2.5... < 1257711733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a fork()ing ircd can handle many more today. < 1257711743 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257711746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, webservers doesn't do a lot of IPC. Probably none or close to none < 1257711747 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257711761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IPC can be fast, I'm sure. < 1257711766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be ridiculous if it couldn't be. < 1257711825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. Go ahead and write an ircd using pipes. and that supports linking to other servers. and scales to 5000 active clients per server or so. < 1257711839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will. < 1257711853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and huge channels. Last I looked #ubuntu had over 1000 people in it. < 1257711866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the day karmic was released though < 1257711870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server-to-server communication would be easy, at least... since you'd already have the infrastructure. < 1257711874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 people is peanuts. < 1257711882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#gentoo is generally around 900-950 < 1257711884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have computers with massive power nowadays... and fork() is really cheap. < 1257711894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tingles my skeptic nerve to assert that this is a challenge. < 1257711985 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1257711989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and really you shouldn't compare to the freenode ircd when it comes to performance. That isn't like comparing to apache. It's like comparing to that "personal web sharing" thing mac os 9 had. Or to that down sized ISS thing for windows 9x < 1257711998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say I'd compare to it? < 1257712007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just warning you ahead of time < 1257712008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100ish right now < 1257712016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, in #ubuntu? < 1257712019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hey, OS X has Personal Web Sharing too. It's Apache :P < 1257712019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1257712029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it wasn't apache in OS 9 < 1257712033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking < 1257712037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, Synchronet is still developed < 1257712042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synchronet? < 1257712057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh seems to be a BBS? < 1257712061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird old BBS software < 1257712074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm.. alis says 1708 < 1257712075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays runs on Windows with lots of Javascript for some reason < 1257712077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did you even check on that < 1257712087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I only saw 1100 when I went in < 1257712092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Its ircd was mentioned in the Wikipedia list of ircds < 1257712095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how strange < 1257712103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, maybe alis caches? < 1257712105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're invisible < 1257712107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITERALLY < 1257712109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess < 1257712115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is only updated every n < 1257712122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1257712125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alis?) < 1257712129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alist? < 1257712145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, service to search in channel list. < 1257712156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try /msg alis help < 1257712170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1257712184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is named SEXPOTS, with homage to the very successful SEXYZ project. This program adds dial-up modem support to any Windows TCP/Socket/Telnet-based BBS (e.g. Synchronet-Win32). Deuce has a *nix version in the works and has also recently added dial-up modem support to SyncTERM to complete the old-school BBS experience using actual modems! Vertrauen can now be dialed directly at 951-549-9994. < 1257712187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...circa june 2008 < 1257712189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2007 < 1257712191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw another reason to avoid IPC. Depending on what sort of IPC that you use, it can look worse than AIO code... < 1257712195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the author sure is up on the modern age < 1257712206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unix sockets or FIFO files, probably. < 1257712210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both easy, simple, intuitive. < 1257712214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter moreso. < 1257712233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd definitely never touch sysv ipc. < 1257712294 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do one to many ipc with it? < 1257712302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define it < 1257712318 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one process sends multiple processes listen < 1257712321 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one "channel" < 1257712333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, not with pipes no. Not sure about unix sockets < 1257712337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "it" < 1257712338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with it" < 1257712352 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah ... unix sockets and fifo files < 1257712367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume ehird will use some sort of channel "thread/process" for each channel < 1257712370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will mean... < 1257712373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Probably < 1257712374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, no. < 1257712379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just fork() on client connect. < 1257712388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is about how to handle networking... < 1257712393 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so when one client sends to #ubuntu it will need to write to 1000 pipes? < 1257712410 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great design < 1257712415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall saying that. < 1257712421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you have to write to 1000 sockets anyway, you know.) < 1257712438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads some of the Acme:: stuff at CPAN
< 1257712444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not locally. Some could be remote. So that means one server write < 1257712458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 sockets as in the client sockets. < 1257712458 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well then you have one remote pipe < 1257712461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the channel, you see. < 1257712476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will have to do 1000 socket writes no matter what... and writing to 1000 pipes suddenly seems tiny. < 1257712484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, yes but the client process has to keep track of who is in what channel and who are local and who are remote < 1257712512 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that's another problem... < 1257712515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~gugod/Acme-Boolean-0.3/lib/Acme/Boolean.pm < 1257712518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, which, since it won't be covered by COW, will be stored in multiple copies in the memory < 1257712522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no FILE_NOT_FOUND :( < 1257712528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do shm < 1257712539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing to N sockets sounds like it'd take less effort than writing to N [anything]s, which are then read by N separately scheduled processes, and then furthermore written to N network sockets. < 1257712552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very true too < 1257712564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail. < 1257712571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how? < 1257712576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to have a step in between, it's a matter of figuring out what that is. < 1257712581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you go for spaghetti code. < 1257712589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, yeah, I'm not interested. < 1257712614 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you have to make sure that the writes are nonblocking < 1257712618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you define "spaghetti code" as anything using a single thread with non-blocking IO and select()/epoll/similar? < 1257712631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only way I can read what you said < 1257712644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not interested in continuing this conversation until you decide to stop jumping to incorrect inclusions. < 1257712648 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing kinda your own scheduling for all write queues? < 1257712670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say it was up to the person talking to make sure the message was interpretable? < 1257712673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, today iirc < 1257712726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a difference between < 1257712729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) misunderstanding, and < 1257712730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, in part yes. you will have the same problem with the pipes however. < 1257712739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) vaguely understanding, then leaping t o a conclusion without too much thought < 1257712742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to a < 1257712773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I suggest you clarify. Because I spent quite some thought on it. < 1257712781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having that "step" done in a single user-space thread sounds still better than bothering the kernel task scheduler with N separate tasks-to-switch, but whatever. Obviously this is all idle speculation until someone actually goes and benchmarks things. < 1257712789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, professional intellectual. I mean exactly what I said and with no hidden meaning. < 1257712794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true. < 1257712824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do realise that saying "true." to everyone who makes a coherent and rational disagreement with me, which you haven't yet done, doesn't bolster your argument magically? < 1257712833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. You are now saying that it is up to the reader to make sure to understand it. Yes you are a hypocrite. No it doesn't make it better that you admit it. < 1257712838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's true, but my design wasn't quite like that. < 1257712867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funnily enough, I clarified the difference between the two wildly different things. Do you really expect this conversation to go anywhere? No? Then shut up. < 1257712870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, managing to type those [0010] things doesn't make you look smart either. < 1257712878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1257712880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it data stream escape or something like that? < 1257712880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that key. < 1257712886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed it by mistake and didn't notice. < 1257712888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck off. < 1257712900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I could say that to you too. < 1257712910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"doesn't make you look smart"; are you a nursery teacher? < 1257712920 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257712938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm afraid I didn't get that reference. < 1257712959 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's no reference... he says exactly what he means < 1257712966 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he just wants to know if you are a nursery teacher... < 1257712970 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1257712972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1257713053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so how exactly would you structure the ircd? < 1257713060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, all you have to do when processing the message in a single thread is indeed to figure out where it should go (local clients in channel + servers with clients in channel, you don't need to know which users here, just store local clients + servers with clients in channel list (have a separate list of remote clients, needed for other stuff)) < 1257713080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to write to the relevant fds (handling write queue as needed) < 1257713087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I haven't fleshed out the idea because I was too busy listening to and foolishly responding to AnMaster's inane babble (and that's the truth, not a passive-aggressive insult) < 1257713108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes you need to handle write queue with pipes too. They have a limited kernel buffer as well < 1257713135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[IRCServices] Ircd's and Services.... < 1257713136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the only multi-threaded ircd out there is efnet's. I could be wrong. Given your features, there is nothing that is multi-threaded that has this. ... < 1257713137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists.ircservices.za.net/pipermail/ircservices/2000/000856.html - Similar - < 1257713145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of IPC, I sometimes wonder how fast those old-style meant-for-IPC constructs are nowadays. Like, let's say, sysv message queues, where you can msgsnd() things to one message queue, have a "long"-typed message type field in each, and have N other processes doing msgrcv() that are optionally filtered by the message type; it supports "return first message", "return first message of a given type" and even the rather strange "return the first lowest-typed < 1257713145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : message in the queue as long as the type is less than or equal to the given type". < 1257713148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you think efnet's ircd scales? < 1257713151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't answer that < 1257713154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just want to add that efnet uses multiple ircds < 1257713156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even back in 2000 it most certainly did) < 1257713161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratbox is amongst them < 1257713166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they used just one ircd back in 2000 < 1257713174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, efnet very clearly scales. < 1257713184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. I can only comment on current state < 1257713195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have no clue what they did in 2000 < 1257713197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratbox is the majority server on efnet anyway < 1257713207 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on efnet i sometimes have significant lag to others < 1257713223 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: too often and too much to say it's me or the others connection < 1257713225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the ircd mentioned in that mail is ratbox? < 1257713232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: True, but EFNet is also basically DDoSed constantly. < 1257713233 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't imply it's the ircds fault < 1257713240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: And it has the gnarliest mass of routing servers ever. < 1257713249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll check. < 1257713313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jix: And it has the gnarliest mass of routing servers ever. <-- isn't ircnet just as bad when it comes to the routing? < 1257713313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, can't figure out. < 1257713327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever — EFNet was threaded in 2000, and EFNet clearly scaled in 2000. < 1257713343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since fork() is, like, 10x more hip than threads, it will undoubtedly work. :P < 1257713381 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you fork you have the problem of accessing the central state of the irc network don't you? < 1257713390 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or having to keep multiple copies of it < 1257713396 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or multiple copies of parts of it < 1257713405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except fork() has slightly higher overhead. Due to COW. Because with threads you can already from creating the thread have thread local variables ready and allocated, but with fork() those will be COWed on first use. Shouldn't matter much however. < 1257713416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: that's just another instance of ipc < 1257713417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/use/write/ < 1257713420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1257713426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COW overhead is, like, 0 :P < 1257713439 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you would go with a central process managing the state? < 1257713442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and updates to the state won't happend transparently. Since if changed that will be COW < 1257713451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do special tricks < 1257713455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPC < 1257713462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Yes, the parent < 1257713466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude < 1257713470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even fork()ing webservers < 1257713472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :access global state < 1257713480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these "issues" are really inane < 1257713493 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but webservers use global state in a completely different way AFAIK < 1257713498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that adds a memory overhead per process. How significant it would be depends on how much state you have to keep up-to-date in each fork < 1257713519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, yes, they rarely need to update it at run time. < 1257713534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Global mutable state is something to be avoided generally anyway. < 1257713537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircds support reloading configs on the fly, and I doubt any irc operator would like to use an ircd that didn't support it < 1257713546 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but isn't that inherent to irc? < 1257713559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't want to restart an ircd to change server links. Just saying. < 1257713561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: In the same way that games depend on mutation and procedural code; i.e. not at all. < 1257713571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to add a new oper line < 1257713583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:52] AnMaster: ircds support reloading configs on the fly, and I doubt any irc operator would like to use an ircd that didn't support it < 1257713584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just spawn an ircd with the new config, move all child processes to it, tell them about it, and kill the old one < 1257713599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : just spawn an ircd with the new config, move all child processes to it, tell them about it, and kill the old one <-- interesting. *shudder* < 1257713632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not interesting, that's a robust, simple technique to restart a server without downtime. < 1257713636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done for upgrades too with some servers. < 1257713638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will be very surprised if this doesn't end up with uglier code than a single threaded one would < 1257713660 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but from the users point of view (many) games depend on mutation... so you have to come up with a way to describe that mutation without actually doing mutation < 1257713663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would do well to check an idea I've expressed isn't common before blanket-asserting that it's bad like usual < 1257713678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: there has been lots of work done on games in functional languages, it's actually quite pleasant < 1257713683 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i know < 1257713692 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'd use functional languages for game dev too < 1257713697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not saying it hasn't been done. But I read the code of some too. < 1257713718 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was just saying that you can't avoid managing a state that can be mutated if the irc protocol specifies a mutable state < 1257713734 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you have a purly functional language and use something like a state monad < 1257713772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Well, yeah. < 1257713784 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do that in one central process that IPCs to all other processes < 1257713799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, channel modes and bans? Stuff like that would be hard without mutable state < 1257713813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for network global bans < 1257713816 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd have to do event based IO in that process to server the childs? (that is a question) < 1257713817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glines) < 1257713891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't answer questions about the design because I've been too busy guessing answers to questions about the design to formulate the desiggn. < 1257713893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*design < 1257713924 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then please keep my question in mind until you get the design done < 1257713930 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the point where i'm stuck < 1257713943 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i try to design a forking ircd < 1257713989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! I am not crazy! Other people are as non-crazy as m— wait, no, I don't think this logically follows. < 1257713997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, you could do shared memory. like shared mmap()ed pages < 1257714004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAARGH < 1257714006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shared memory is evil < 1257714010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your fork()s just become threads < 1257714015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just about to get to that < 1257714053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "but that would be painful and require lots of synchronization and similar" < 1257714108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have to say an ircd doesn't sound quite as inherently suitable for a multi-process-for-each-client/peer implementation as a web server; for the supposedly-mentioned-but-can't-see-them-through-the-wall-of-text reasons of having each connection a long-lived thing that can affect all the other connections in various ways. (While in the web server case, after you've fork'd, the child just has to basically read(), sendfile() and exit().) < 1257714130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it can't be designed in the same way as a webserver. < 1257714196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you'll end up with a thousand-process "ps" listing, and that's just ugly. :p < 1257714234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus possibly do some logging (regarding forked child in web server that is) < 1257714258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But useful! < 1257714286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "argh I can't find which process is hogging the CPU because the list is so damn long"? < 1257714296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellooooooo, top(1) < 1257714297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really, just sort on a column) < 1257714327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usefulness is probably in the fact that you can run psdoom and go kill IRC people that you're annoyed with. < 1257714332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means something like: ps aux | LC_ALL=C sort -nk 3 < 1257714340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1257714341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LC_ALL=C there because locales messes up < 1257714346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or just top < 1257714364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps always uses 1.0, sort uses 1.0 or 1,0 or whatever the locale uses < 1257714375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck l10n < 1257714405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh true < 1257714408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck l10n? I guess you'll be speaking exclusively in English from hereon after, then. < 1257714438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or just "ps auxk -%cpu"; you know, ps can do the sorting just fine. < 1257714462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well no, rather it should be "fuck l10n related issues" < 1257714479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and why localise to English? ;P < 1257714494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, never knew. < 1257714507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's the most international language? I would say most widely used, but China wins on the account of having a huge fucking number of people. < 1257714509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, k for? < 1257714517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "k" for "sort", of kourse. < 1257714518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting? < 1257714521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages will die out within time. < 1257714527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah because "sort" contains no "k" < 1257714529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1257714532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense < 1257714538 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i doubt that < 1257714545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It might be "sort *k*ey", but that's a bit far-fetched. < 1257714551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I'm not surprised. < 1257714560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh could be. < 1257714564 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that's just a feeling thing right now i have nothing to support that < 1257714569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU has a "--sort" long-flag which is a bit more rememberable. < 1257714619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh what is this database "mimer"? Never heard of it before. Seems to be used at uni. Sigh < 1257714642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"top" might still be better, though; it hopefully sorts processes before rounding things to the ##.# percentage format of ps. < 1257714650 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wasn't at some point someone studying computer scince in luebeck here? < 1257714677 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i hope ps sorts before doing that too < 1257714747 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking at the mac os x ps (some bsd ps according to the manpage) i need -r to sort for cpu usage < 1257714802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a bit nonstandard; the "k %cpu" works for this procps 3.2.8 ps I have. < 1257714823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use htop < 1257714825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: all os x userland is bsd. < 1257714843 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: define userland < 1257714853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has the "r" flag report only currently-running processes. < 1257714869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: cli userspace < 1257714877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the shit it changed which is minor < 1257714882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the coreutils etc are bsd < 1257714905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On my system it seems to mean I get the "ps auxr" command itself, and not much else; sometimes an [events/0] kernel thread, and once X in a 20-run set.) < 1257714910 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well there are some additional tools that are from apple < 1257714910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about stuff like hdiutil (if I remember the name correctly) < 1257714923 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole *util thing being part of that < 1257714940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: sure < 1257714942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1257714944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r Restrict the selection to only running processes. < 1257714946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1257714955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have more than one core and/or cpu < 1257714980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This one has the "r" flag report only currently-running processes. < 1257714987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what I said? < 1257714996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh sure. Missed that line somehow < 1257715535 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1257715630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1257715635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the best HMD is < 1257715647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA ATTACK OF THE WORD YOU PROBABLYY DON'T KNOW < 1257715651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PROBABLY < 1257715795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be... Heavy Metal Detox. What on earth have you been doing? < 1257715844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Han Moo Do is a Korean-style martial art founded in Finland. It is mainly practiced in the Nordic countries." < 1257715864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1257715970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, head mounted display I assume? < 1257715974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1257715979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1257716039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1257716069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to know the word I mean (for me, that is. Not for people not interested in avionics or wearable computing) < 1257716081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1257716145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "targeting by looking" basically. Unlike with a HUD. Takes longer than just turning the head to target an aircraft that isn't straight ahead < 1257716157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, head mounted display is a display that's mounted on your head. < 1257716161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targeting by looking would be eye tracking. < 1257716184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. But you need a HMD to see the targeting info. Since a HUD wouldn't be where you are looking any more < 1257716200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could be looking to your side rather than ahead < 1257716202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Avionics HMDs are mostly transparent, yeah? < 1257716204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an overlay. < 1257716211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly yes. < 1257716221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, somewhat similar to a HUD in that respect < 1257716278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In wearable computing it's a usual LCD of course. < 1257716283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I think this module will kill me. SQL stuff. And not just as a useful tool. But all the damn theory too < 1257716295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relational theory stuff is quite good, I think. < 1257716307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL itself isn't a useful tool, though... nor is it relational. < 1257716307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using some weird closed source db server called "mimer sql" < 1257716325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transparent bendable OLEDs don't seem to have made it to market yet and I doubt they're very good for text. < 1257716348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a display attached to some safety goggles in your peripheral vision that you can focus on appears to be the best solution. < 1257716365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, which? The MyVu Crystal has colours, sure... but it's only 640x480. < 1257716380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at 1600 ppi, 640x480 does NOT get you much text. Or, well, anything, even at normal ppi. < 1257716407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not so bad since the .5" block of magic is close to your vision so it appears much bigger. But still.) < 1257716410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for avionics you need some text (distance to target, speed, altitude, possibly AoA, that sort of stuff) and some vector graphics (horizon line, and such). < 1257716445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the end result to be as close as possible to something I can program on, browse Wikipedia with and IRC with little trouble. < 1257716472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And preferably well-designed enough that it's easy to start to use within seconds — e.g. going from walking to using it. < 1257716479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra points if it's usable while walking, though that's not likely.) < 1257716483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is hardly the goal of HMD for combat pilots though. I don't know much about the HMDs that people like Gregor are interested in < 1257716485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A voice-based system could dothat. < 1257716488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do that < 1257716504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: People like Gregor and me! Except Gregor has a working wearable computer that he actually uses and I don't. :P < 1257716509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMDs are just tiny LCDs, really. < 1257716550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Extra points if it's usable while walking, though that's not likely.) <-- you could do an overlay to display map, somewhat like GPS with navigation capabilities < 1257716582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Readable through the bounce, bounce, bounce of walking? < 1257716584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be some feat. < 1257716592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point. < 1257716601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, afaik nobody uses a wearable computer to program. < 1257716620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never had to consider bouncing like that in aircrafts. :P < 1257716626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make it unobtrusive enough to go to bed with. That'd be some immersive alarm clock. < 1257716634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can do navigation stuff on a HMD < 1257716644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like highlighting where the air strip is < 1257716647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is foggy < 1257716658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that feature exists on some HUDs at least < 1257716672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outline of area where you need to land. Very useful < 1257716676 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-70-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1257716686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main issue with sleeping with it would be the headset (if any), the display and the computer itself. < 1257716692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboard and pointing device should be fine. < 1257716713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wouldn't bother too much about that bit < 1257716735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People sleep with headphones on, so the headset should be fine; sleeping with safety glasses on is trivial, and the computer itself just needs to be in a pocket or whatever, not in a backpack. At least optionally. < 1257716759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, how does that work with normal glasses? < 1257716770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UI-ART people at the university are doing "Urban contextual information interfaces with multimodal augmented reality"; I think they were supposed to have some sort of Nokia-built silly head-mounted-display eye-tracking glasses prototype thing. I just can't seem to find any information about that part, just boring scientific papers about acoustics, eye-tracking and information retrieval. < 1257716777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same way; Gregor used safety goggles because he doesn't need glasses, and I'll do the same. < 1257716781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mount the computer display on them? or do you wear the other glases on top < 1257716788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1257716812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite spending a large portion of my life staring at a display (CRT, even) without many breaks, I have better vision than most people! mwahahaha < 1257716839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, CRT? where? < 1257716844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-2006. < 1257716847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1257716856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At high resolution, too. < 1257716862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My refresh rate was... so low. < 1257716867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does staring on a display really affect your long term vision though= < 1257716867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think like 60 Hz or something < 1257716870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1257716875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A constantly-flashing CRT? < 1257716876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257716879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An LCD? No. < 1257716884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yeah if it was 60 Hz < 1257716893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a 75 Hz CRT? < 1257716893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just 60 Hz, 60 Hz on a really bad, old CRT. < 1257716901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has one good eye, and one eye that can barely see
< 1257716903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 80 Hz is the comfortable refresh for a CRT. < 1257716906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything below is bad. < 1257716910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 Hz is glorious. < 1257716937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I began my computing with a laptop. Never had a CRT. Used CRTs yes, but never owned one. < 1257716937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the flickering was compounded by the high resolution at 17"... < 1257716941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(smaller than 17" LCD; CRT) < 1257716952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bad CRT blurring things... < 1257716962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet I still have awesome sight. < 1257717005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't. *shrug*. Maybe the effect it has on vision is somewhat indivdual? < 1257717011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :individual* < 1257717024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I'm just durable. My metabolism is really fast, too, so I'm permanently uber-skinny. < 1257717035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't seem to require all that much sustenance. < 1257717036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would CRTs hae an effect on vision? < 1257717039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that doesn't work. I had glasses before I really began using computer much < 1257717042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers* < 1257717043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because they flash every update < 1257717047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how they work < 1257717053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frame sent, it fades quickly, frame sent < 1257717065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 80 Hz, it's not that noticeable, at 100 Hz, it disappears to the human eye < 1257717070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything below 80 Hz, you can see the flickering < 1257717076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that that could cause headaches, but how can it hurt vision? < 1257717078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your eyes are being pounded with flashing light < 1257717087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: imagine staring at a strobe light for hours upon hours < 1257717092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much it < 1257717166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the CRTs I used were mostly apple. Which were good ones I guess. Even back on performas < 1257717175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1257717190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine was a second-hand 17" Compaq that had a scratch in the casing. < 1257717203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ran at some 5xx * something res iirc < 1257717212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5xx and 3xx? < 1257717214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1257717231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why didn't you run it at lower res? < 1257717239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More pixels. < 1257717247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and? < 1257717255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the flicker didn't bother me. < 1257717261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-highest res doesn't look bad on a CRT < 1257717261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could read the tiny, smudged text. < 1257717284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, why not more pixels? I didn't care about eye strain because I'd never had a problem (and it seems I was right). < 1257717290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually ran at 1280x1024, I think. No, wait, that's 5:4. Um... maybe it was stretched and I never knew. < 1257717323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x1024 is pretty common for 17" iirc? < 1257717324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used PowerStrip to get a higher res than Windows would allow, but ran into the limit of my 32 MiB SiS graphics... < 1257717331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nowadays, yes. < 1257717334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that thing? Hell no. < 1257717338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 17" CRT. < 1257717341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't visible-area. < 1257717345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think my old syncmaster (RIP) used that < 1257717349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was 17" < 1257717375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1257717401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is starting to be creeped out
< 1257717414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some person keeps knocking at the door. It happened yesterday, and twice today < 1257717426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a person. < 1257717427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. didn't you answer the door? < 1257717432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The car has been the same car for both times today. Don't remember yesterday < 1257717433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, no < 1257717435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TALK? TO PEOPLE? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1257717438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW COULD YOU < 1257717460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why not < 1257717474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for once I enjoy your sarcastic comments. < 1257717512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha the guy who dropped the Boscom terminal board to destroy the rivets burned it at the request of one forum member < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>I've run out of ways to torture the Boscom. < 1257717552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very imaginative. However, you did run out of Boscom it seems. < 1257717553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1257717608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did he? < 1257717616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems stupid. < 1257717624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fun? < 1257717631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy has a shitload of keyboards anyway. < 1257717645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's fun to see what well-made keyboards can withstand. < 1257717647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would be surprised if they are still manufactured < 1257717652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are. < 1257717656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're manufactured by Unicomp. < 1257717657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? interesting < 1257717668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter, anyway, as there'll be a bunch in circulation. < 1257717675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it is a terminal keyboard? < 1257717679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1257717696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people still uses them? < 1257717697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1257717703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Unicomp made a tenkeyless Endurapro :-((((((((((((((((((((((( < 1257717711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is that < 1257717714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think things like ancient corporate account systems < 1257717741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at some point they will all be replaced. Sure it may take a while, but it will happen < 1257717754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in hundreds of years. < 1257717768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just about to say that "by 2100 I doubt any of them are still in use" < 1257717797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endurapro is http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html, which is basically a standard-layout board but with a smaller bezel than the almost-identical-to-Model M Customiser. It also has a nipple mouse (probably quite good, as they took over from Lexmark who took over from IBM). Tenkeyless is a keyboard without the number pad. < 1257717814 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1257717835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is Lexmark still around? < 1257717842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printers, yeah. < 1257717853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboards, nope, they stopped makin' em and Unicomp was founded and bought up their shit. < 1257717855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their shit < 1257717868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lexmark is just the spinoff of IBM's keyboard+printer division when IBM went "ok let's get rid of this shit". < 1257717871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They made Model Ms for a while. < 1257717876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since 1991 or 1993 or something like that) < 1257717883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, tenkeyless Endurapro + their nice black no-lettering keycaps + some greasing on the springs = Hey, a sleek, modern, low-profile buckling spring keyboard that doesn't clatter nearly as much as the old ones. < 1257717895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used to have a Lexmark printer years ago < 1257717900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got it to work under linux. < 1257717911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HP one that replaced it worked out of box < 1257717917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Unicomp's idea of a product with a different design is this puzzling item: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/noname1.html < 1257717943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are... not the most innovative or progressive company. < 1257717985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh indeed < 1257717993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do they have that in a terminal variant? < 1257718001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you ask them! < 1257718004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1257718022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you can get that Wildcats keyboard with PS/2 *or* AT connector. < 1257718033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I was expecting the second item in the drop-down to be USB. < 1257718158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I had the same reaction seconds before < 1257718177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the keyboards anyone would buy from them are available in USB, though. < 1257718187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Navigating their site really pisses me off < 1257718202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menus change as you go around, and there's no link to /keyboards.html, the main page < 1257718364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/linux101.html <-- heh.... < 1257718395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They list the SpaceSaver there?! < 1257718418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1257718422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that thingg < 1257718424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1257718433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are you talking about? < 1257718437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1257718481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw why are some of the keys a different colour I wonder. < 1257718487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never could find a good reason for it < 1257718492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On which < 1257718499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/pckeyboards_2075_1033946 for example < 1257718548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The SpaceSaver PS2 models can be programmed at the time of manufacture, the USB models are not programmable." <-- huh? < 1257718548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, which to write first... My httpd, my web-thingy, or my document-writing thingy < 1257718555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmed? < 1257718562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web-thingy kinda depends on document-writing thiingy < 1257718563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: layout < 1257718573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't that up to the OS keymaps? < 1257718573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, to mark non-self printing keys < 1257718577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the top row it's just for aesthetics < 1257718589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backspace is printing in a way, I guess < 1257718597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but enter is too < 1257718598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh < 1257718599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's arbitrary < 1257718602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just to look good, really < 1257718625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so are some of them on the numkeypad < 1257718640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all, apart from numlock < 1257718679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cats_with_fraudulent_diplomas < 1257718695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, *blink* < 1257718701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1257718707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>| < 1257718712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to see [[List of cats with legitimate diplomas]] < 1257718713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur old < 1257718715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1257718868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks around the various interwebnet shoppan' sites for a http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif
< 1257718896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone just has the wheel version, it seems < 1257718906 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257718923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257718935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the little finger indents on the buttons. < 1257718943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't more pointing devices have them? < 1257718962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trackman Marble by Logitech (Toy) < 1257718963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that categorisation very offensive! < 1257719001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Everyone just has the wheel version, it seems <-- you don't want a mouse wheel? < 1257719014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do! But I want a middle mouse button that isn't a wheel. < 1257719020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11. Pasting. < 1257719036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clicking a scroll wheel isn't hard < 1257719043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bad for your finger. < 1257719044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, in between the buttons isn't the most comfortable place for a wheel to go anyway. < 1257719048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do X11 pasting with a tilt-able scroll wheel all the time < 1257719052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no issues with ti < 1257719053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1257719064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your hands do, though. < 1257719076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the Plan 9 people say that you must have three real buttons. < 1257719087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I rest my hand on all the buttons, so it's especially important. < 1257719089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "even"? < 1257719099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that it's widely accepted. < 1257719111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I rest my hand so I don't rest it on the scrollwheel < 1257719114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/jPy3i.png, with the trackball lower down like in http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif (I'm a terrible drawer) is my perfect trackball. < 1257719132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where do you want your scrollwheel then? < 1257719133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convenient place for the scroll wheel, and you ca n rest on it and still use the left and middle buttons — great for web browsing. < 1257719137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click the damn link. < 1257719139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can < 1257719147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, links. < 1257719159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want a cable in your foot? < 1257719209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go see a doctor about that swollen toe (and the missing ones. Maybe the big one cannibalised some of the small ones?) < 1257719221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of them rather < 1257719236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ignored your bad attempt at being funny in the first line, but spending three lines on it is just embarrassing. < 1257719259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no joke you can't drag out even more < 1257719272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a good thing) < 1257719280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£17.99 + £2.08 shipping for a used-but-in-very-good-condition, seemingly wheel-less TrackMan Marble? < 1257719288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss < 1257719295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great deal < 1257719317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think I can use the trackball as a mouse wheel. < 1257719333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set up some trickery to let me hold the middle button and move the trackball to scroll, say. < 1257719441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't that break pasting? Unless you manage to get it to paste on button release if trackball hasn't moved < 1257719447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably require patching X < 1257719469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. I don't know. < 1257719477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have a modifier key on the keyboard do it. < 1257719495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for such a cheap price I can pick up a wheeled version if it doesn't work out, < 1257719499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out. < 1257719554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trackman marble mouse only. No box, manual or software." < 1257719562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gosh, what will I do without the huge box letting me know it supports Windows 95? < 1257719565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1257719569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the detailed manual on how to press your finger down to click? < 1257719576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR THE WINDOWS 9X-ONLY DRIVERS?! < 1257719579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't possibly buy it. < 1257719607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1257719788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5579&d=1257695395 < 1257719788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the abomination! < 1257720169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the keys seems to not match each other? < 1257720176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like alt-gr and the menu one < 1257720180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close. Look carefully. < 1257720190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different angles, different convexities on the surface < 1257720216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check the windows key and the alt key on the left side for example < 1257720222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THEY DON'T MATCH* < 1257720227 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257720230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHY ARE YOU TYPING LIKE THIS* < 1257720243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I hit the wrong key :P < 1257720253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was supposed to be lower case < 1257720272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apart from that I never seen a "help" key before < 1257720314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the alt key. < 1257720332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mac? < 1257720348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. Look at the other key very near it... < 1257720356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either one or two places away on each side. < 1257720366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows yes < 1257720376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN! IT'S A HYBRID DELL AT101W AND APPLE EXTENDED KEYBOARD II CHIMERA! < 1257720379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! < 1257720379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said the key hight and such didn't match. < 1257720392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU TYPING LIKE THIS? < 1257720402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The letters and main punctuation (but not \|) are from the AEKII too < 1257720406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TERROR, PANIC < 1257720430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would (due to the key height mentioned) be horrible to type on < 1257720486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, the camera accentuates it. < 1257720494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the main block of keys is all the same height. < 1257720510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, enter and such too? < 1257720522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but "eh". < 1257720534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey -- could use some of the wisdom of your xorg champs. I found this link on how to emulate the scroll wheel using the logitech marble trackball. I figure any trackball would work for this, but what I was wondering is whether or not I could emulate the scroll wheel by using the "Windows" key and the trackball -- that is to say, if I hold the Windows key down, could I then use the trackball to scroll?" < 1257720537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKEMINDED PEOPLE <3 < 1257720574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :P < 1257720713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1257721027 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really love the apple keyboards < 1257721030 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new ones < 1257721037 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they have even newer ones already < 1257721089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bashes jix with a buckling spring
< 1257721095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begone, foul demon of the scissor switch! < 1257721101 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1257721106 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah slim keyboards are not everyones favourite < 1257721128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks up a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2 and throws it at jix
< 1257721132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This minimalist enough for you?! Eh?! < 1257721140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws a gigantic Model F terminal board for good measure
< 1257721190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Begone, foul demon of the scissor switch! <-- isn't that what most laptops have? < 1257721205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and Apple keyboards since ~2007 < 1257721209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1257721210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, more like all laptops < 1257721214 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid keyboard < 1257721226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, always wondered why laptops don't have just membrane ones < 1257721235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size < 1257721246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scissor switch keyboards are much less thick < 1257721249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less key travel < 1257721251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: which < 1257721258 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the happy hacking one < 1257721269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not, it has topre keyswitches and a well-designed layout < 1257721289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the lite one is useless (rubber dome) but the professional is worth it for the keyswitches alone... < 1257721322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are those really full sized keys? < 1257721336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what < 1257721341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happy hacking < 1257721343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1257721350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a perfectly usable keyboard < 1257721354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no arrow keys < 1257721359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fn+some letters < 1257721360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which < 1257721362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe wasd < 1257721369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds horrible. < 1257721380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded < 1257721384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want less keys < 1257721388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no f-keys < 1257721394 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no number pad < 1257721406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, there are arguments both for and against numpad. < 1257721413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see both points of view < 1257721425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: f key is fn+number < 1257721435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only goes to F10 then? < 1257721436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great because you can access everything from the home row < 1257721437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not F12? < 1257721444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a way to do more iirc < 1257721458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: less keys = everything accessible from the home row, minimalist, and the mouse is closer < 1257721477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse context-switching time is expensive; the width of a numberpad and middle-area is not to be sniffed at < 1257721481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes a large differnce < 1257721484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*difference < 1257721484 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accessible" means accessible without a chord < 1257721484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more keys = actually able to play nethack without going mad (I use numpad yes) < 1257721498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: tell that to every user of the HHKB Pro 2 < 1257721504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all three? < 1257721504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anyone who's bought it and been dissatisfied < 1257721611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing fn and a key to get pageup is faster than moving over to the pageup key anyway < 1257721774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressing Fn-; and Fn-P to fly up and down in AW is annoying < 1257721800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, if you go through the trouble of getting such a keyboard, I'm sure you won't let yourself be disappointed with it, even if it had a feature that'd randomly stick rusty nails through your fingers. < 1257721824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude, you should see some of the criticism the people on geekhack lob at expensive keyboards they bought and can't return. < 1257721847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ~$250 HHKB Pro 2 isn't even the most expensive keyboard fawned over by a long shot. < 1257721854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one of the most popular full stop, though, regardless of price. < 1257721858 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie I have one of those, you get used to it after a while < 1257721873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: One of the rusty nail ones? < 1257721874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pressing fn and a key to get pageup is faster than moving over to the pageup key anyway <-- not really, it is moving about 2 cm from standard position to reach pgup < 1257721882 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1257721884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, < 1257721890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chording is still very faast. < 1257721891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgup and insert should be swapped < 1257721892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fast < 1257721904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making the decision to move 2 cm takes a non-negligible amount of time too. < 1257721908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. But annoying if you need to do a key combo with those < 1257721913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ctrl-alt-f12 < 1257721914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus we're lumbering, slow beasts, except for our fingers. Which are really snappy. < 1257721951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face is a lumbering, slow beast < 1257721974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the HHKB, that's (using normal key positions) Caps Lock + Windows + Rightmost bit of right shift key < 1257721976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1257721977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your mom is really snappy with her fingers though! < 1257721978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ dunno < 1257721994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lumbering, slow beast on your face! How have you not noticed that?! < 1257722000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caps Lock is actually control, alt key is next to an inexplicably big windows key which is next to the space bar (swap them, srsly) < 1257722004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn is next to right shift < 1257722013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's actually a pretty comfortable key chord, really < 1257722015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spread out and all < 1257722023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Rightmost bit of right shift key"? < 1257722027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell? < 1257722028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://antiflash.org/notes/computers/happy_hacking_keyboard_pro_2/spacesaver_hhkbpro2_small.jpg < 1257722032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like I said caps lock < 1257722037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's to the right of the right shift key < 1257722045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one ok < 1257722048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying it that way so you could orient yourself on a regular keyboard < 1257722053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong shape for return < 1257722054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why I said windows when the key in that position is alt < 1257722059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, right shape for return < 1257722062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants Europan vertical return
< 1257722066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :European* < 1257722073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO layout is shit, and I say this as someone who used it for years and years then switched < 1257722081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've switched back to ISO for this shitty keyboard, and I fucking hate it < 1257722086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used both. Can't stand the US one < 1257722102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit the enter in the wrong place on it all the time. That is, where there is no enter < 1257722105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing you that probably means you used the US layout for 5 minutes after 50 years of using ISO 24/7 < 1257722117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hit enter at the top? < 1257722120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, your pinky hates you. < 1257722124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean reaaaaaaaally hates you. < 1257722136 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pinky gets sore whenever i write lisp < 1257722138 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1257722138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I no on the middle. Right between the two rows on US layout < 1257722159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I // < 1257722163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: rebind [] to () and put [] on shifted 9 and 0. () is way more common in both english text and lisp < 1257722171 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbonbondood you use paredit? < 1257722172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the adjustment needed is very little < 1257722191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not 50 years. and I used US layout for a few months. Sure I used the ISO layout for more. But still a few months is usually enough to get used to a new keyboard < 1257722204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, not a whole new layout < 1257722235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't have that keyboard for more. So couldn't do anything about it. So what do you think is enough? If 5 months isn't < 1257722252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me. < 1257722276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or maybe your "US layout is better" *isn't* an universal truth < 1257722284 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1257722285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is subjective? ever considered that? < 1257722288 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1257722291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1257722315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, welcome to HUMAN COMMUNICATION, where people state opinions as fact because otherwise EVERY SINGLE THING they say would be prefixed by "In my opinion,". < 1257722339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I bothered to type that out, seeing as you appear to realise it for a few months and then promptly forget with a smarmy pseudo-sarcastic statement. < 1257722345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even so " Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me." seems to indicate it is something universal < 1257722346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1257722348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't adjust to it from ISO" isn't an argument against the US layout, subjective or not, by the way. < 1257722359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an argument against you not using the US layout, which is different. < 1257722363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed it was < 1257722364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you fail pretty much entirely. < 1257722367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you did. < 1257722381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You called it the "wrong" shape for enter. < 1257722388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That phrases it as an argument against the US layout itself. < 1257722426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for me yes. I never said it was universal. While your " Maybe your brain is just broken and can't relearn things? Don't ask me." seemed to indicate your opinion was somehow "better" than mine. < 1257722428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1257722430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1257722470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just hate me with a force so strong that your brain actually injects such things in between the lines of my messages. < 1257722610 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1257722621 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a spell in D&D game, is this good enough: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/Suppress_Lycanthropy.txt < 1257722829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked that before. < 1257722863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1257722904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4104&stc=1&d=1251471829 < 1257722907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More Boscom torturer < 1257722910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torture < 1257723332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some MIDIs (unfortunately, each individual MIDI and other sound is zipped): http://objects.activeworlds.com/aw/sounds < 1257723450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some of the zips seem to be invalid < 1257723720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no esolang talk in here anymore < 1257723722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny < 1257723817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The invalid zips seem to be ones with filenames less than 8 characters, not including the dot and extension < 1257723830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm wrong < 1257724561 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1257724705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: because there's no esolang activity anymore < 1257724711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all just sitting around waiting for feather