00:02:50 <Gracenotes> extracting a 4GB .rar file has taken... about as long as expected >_>
00:04:41 <oerjan> size after decompression?
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00:10:50 <Gracenotes> 4093296 bytes of rar files in 21 parts
00:11:57 <oerjan> um there's some magnitude error there...
00:12:27 <Gracenotes> hm, is it? 4246796/4093296 = 1.03750034
00:12:40 <oerjan> that's rather less than 4 GB
00:13:33 <Gracenotes> it's what du said. I didn't do anything else to the folders but download in one, and extract in another
00:13:57 <oerjan> du probably reports blocks, which may be kilobytes, or not
00:14:44 <Gracenotes> 4187257413 and 4344426496 respectively
00:15:21 <oerjan> that's more like it. not much of a compression...
00:16:38 <Gracenotes> I think it's pretty impressive when you realize that it already is a compressed video format
00:16:46 <oerjan> well i suppose the extracted VOBs are already compres.. right
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00:17:32 <Gracenotes> both Totem and VLC aren't too happy about the 1024 MB files, but mplayer seems to be just fine
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06:07:06 * madbr scratches his head
06:07:27 <madbr> ok, how do you make a sprite system for a console/computer platform
06:08:54 <madbr> specifically something 8 or 16 bit
06:13:06 <madbr> 2 and 4 color sprites (that makes 1 and 3 with transparency) are ugly
06:13:20 <madbr> gotta be at least 8 or 16 colors
06:14:52 <madbr> hblank has... about 40 avalable mem cycles. not enough.
06:16:44 <madbr> or at least not much... that's 80 or 100 pixels wide of sprites, out of 320x
06:18:41 <madbr> but using cycles for sound would reduce that...
06:19:13 <madbr> hypothetic solution 1: go for 16 bit
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06:58:45 <zzo38> Do you people every play any kinds of pinball game?
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07:40:26 <Gregor> My PLDI paper is submitted.
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09:23:32 <Gregor> Programming Language Design and Implementation
09:23:37 <Gregor> It's a top-tier conference in PL.
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09:47:07 <SimonRC> Gregor: what is the paper one?
09:47:22 <Gregor> The dynamic behavior of JavaScript programs.
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12:25:49 <AnMaster> huh what is this strtok_s that is mentioned in intel cpu docs. Context: Discussing a faster SSE4.2 replacement for strtok_s
12:26:03 <AnMaster> I never heard of any _s variant and there seems to be no man page about it
12:26:37 <AnMaster> only ones I can find are strtok() and strtok_r()
12:29:48 <fizzie> The _s variants are microsoftisms.
12:30:01 -!- MizardX has changed nick to MizardX-.
12:30:13 <fizzie> See, for example, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ftsafwz3%28VS.80%29.aspx
12:30:20 <AnMaster> or as in "buffer length handled better"
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12:30:33 <AnMaster> fizzie, no X and last time I checked w3m failed *badly* at msdn
12:31:09 <AnMaster> hey it seems to work better in w3m now
12:31:19 <fizzie> Though in this case strtok_s seems mostly like strtok_r, since it takes that char** context pointer too.
12:31:37 <fizzie> It might be that they use _s for both "thread-safe" and "buffer-length-handled-better-safe".
12:32:52 <fizzie> "Significant enhancements have been made to make the CRT more secure. Many CRT functions now have more secure versions. If a new secure function exists, the older, less secure version is marked as deprecated and the new version has the _s ("secure") suffix."
12:32:58 <fizzie> Oh, so it's "_s" for "secure", not "safe".
12:33:37 <fizzie> That's from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8ef0s5kh%28VS.80%29.aspx which also explains what the enhancements are.
12:34:44 * AnMaster ponders what exactly "secure" means
12:35:57 <AnMaster> hey I think they could manage to claim it was related to DRM. Isn't that about security. Well not for the user of course.
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15:58:51 <AnMaster> lets see, it was mythbusters iirc?
16:06:28 <MizardX> What does "iwc" mean? I've seen it used in other places, but never figured out what it ment. Only things I could find with google are "Internet Wrestling Community" and "International Watch Community", and similar terms, none of which seem to fit in the context.
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16:17:04 <oerjan> MizardX: there is the occasional wrestling though. but it's not what you think. :)
16:19:24 <AnMaster> okay this explains a lot about the odd problems I had with classic Mac OS. stdout is fully buffered and stderr is line buffered, and there are odd conventions about exit code for MPW tools. Oh and several other things
16:20:28 <MizardX> What do you mean by "fully buffered"? Nothing is output until stdout is closed/program ended?
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16:21:55 <AnMaster> and this makes printf() debugging very confusing unless you are aware of that this is happening
16:22:15 <AnMaster> also for MPW tools it seems to cause issues if you try to change the output to be line buffered instead
16:22:38 <AnMaster> (as in, things behaving strange after program exits)
16:22:51 <AnMaster> (or rather not exits, MPW is very very very strange)
16:25:50 <AnMaster> MizardX, imagine a system where the shell and programs share the stack and heap. Programs work more or less as the shell loading the binary and calling main(). Oh and it overrides parts of the standard C library (like exit()) to make this work.
16:26:06 <AnMaster> MPW is not quite like that, but quite similar (and slightly worse)
16:26:44 <AnMaster> oh and yeah, the system doesn't use an MMU either.
16:27:04 <AnMaster> so anything that goes wrong will likely require you to reboot
16:27:17 <AnMaster> did I mention that the filesystem isn't journaled?
16:31:22 <AnMaster> MizardX, oh and the system is cooperative multitasking.
16:32:32 <MizardX> Some positive thinking is not always the best...
16:33:42 <AnMaster> MizardX, oh btw since the OS doesn't use the MMU it allocates memory blocks at startup of applications (the shell mentioned being one of them). It's fixed while the program is running. To change it, quit the application and change in the info box for it, then launch it again.
16:34:31 <AnMaster> oh yeah and the OS may decide to compact the heap behind your back unless you explicitly told it that a certain allocation can't be moved (thankfully, the malloc() interface handles that for you)
16:35:10 <AnMaster> so the system uses handles all the time instead of pointers.
16:36:16 <AnMaster> so yeah it is kind of like a GC on crack (it can also purge blocks if they are marked as purgeable)
16:36:33 <AnMaster> except not very much since it won't try to find if the blocks are actually still referenced or not
16:48:45 <AnMaster> MizardX, oh and the shell is a combined shell/editor/IDE thingy. And if you write to a file that the user happens to have open in there already the shell redirects the IO to the relevant window XD
16:49:23 <AnMaster> (and the user need to save the file for the changes you made to take place then)
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18:12:26 <AnMaster> fun... it looks like I will have to compile my own kernel when I switch to karmic at some future point on my laptop: I'm affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/300143
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21:42:22 <ehird> over 150 messages to go-nuts in my absence...
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21:46:03 <ehird> 23:18:39 <AnMaster> <pikhq> They probably take Microsoft's example.
21:46:03 <ehird> 23:18:39 <AnMaster> <pikhq> (valid values of one of their boolean types are 0,1, and -1.
21:46:04 <ehird> 23:18:39 <AnMaster> <pikhq> )
21:46:04 <ehird> 23:18:41 <AnMaster> huh?
21:46:04 <ehird> 23:18:43 <AnMaster> seriously?
21:46:05 <ehird> 23:19:03 <AnMaster> microsoft is bad, but THAT bad?
21:46:06 <ehird> I mean, a sociopathic corporation holding back OS development and design SURE, but a boolean which can take a value that presumably means "unknown"?!
21:46:12 <ehird> THEY'RE JUST AS BAD AS THE SQL COMMITTEE
21:46:22 <ehird> hey, a few minutes from going hi to mocking AnMaster
21:47:24 <ehird> 12:27:03 <augur> ehird: http://www.ted.com/talks/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsense_technology.html
21:47:24 <ehird> 12:27:23 <augur> theres a part in here that is really very much like what we were talking about
21:47:25 <ehird> 12:49:02 <AnMaster> augur, is that a video site or such? I can't see any text related to things (and I'm not running X atm, so using w3m)
21:47:48 <ehird> 14:06:17 <AnMaster> want opendns details
21:47:48 <ehird> 14:06:20 <AnMaster> ?
21:47:49 <ehird> opendns are making you pay to remove their shit nowadays
21:47:56 <ehird> use other, really open, pure-dns servers.
21:48:06 <ehird> 14:07:56 <SimonRC> how do they get enough money to keep existing?
21:48:50 <ehird> 17:04:17 <Oranjer> hey! can you send me the link using google wave?
21:48:50 <ehird> at least previously our off topic talkings were by people with relation to esolangs
21:49:02 <ehird> 17:07:12 <Oranjer> is the program usable? for making things?
21:49:31 <ehird> 17:17:18 <Oranjer> hell, I'm the one who got into arguments with conservatives at my school
21:49:32 <ehird> That like, makes you the anti-conservative. Arguing at school. Hardcore.
21:51:07 <ehird> 17:24:39 <Oranjer> three facets: order, freedom, and equality
21:51:07 <ehird> A bad measurement. Nobody picks {freedom, equality}, for instance (no, anarchism is not chaos), and this cannot account for fascism.
21:52:03 <ehird> 20:05:15 <Sgeo> I'm in a bingo place
21:52:04 <ehird> UpdateHeuristic(Sgeo, IQFacet, ApproxLower);
21:52:37 <ehird> 21:12:51 <Darth_Cliche> Is oklofok a spambot?
21:55:16 * ehird decides to adopt BFS for distro
22:00:18 <ehird> Also, almost certainly x86; the only things that could make me consider 64-bit are long-term improvements and the extra registers, and right now I value support of the best ThinkPads and compatibility with old executables without multilib hell over those.
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22:22:08 <ehird> Oh, Chromium OS came out?
22:31:05 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/a6r7q/what_an_insult_to_reason_and_the_progress_of/ Onion headline: "Mormons Baptise Carl Sagan Two Years After Death"
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22:59:42 <sarek_> anyone worked on brainfuck compilers here
23:02:20 <Gregor> Probably nearly everyone in this channel has written a brainfuck compiler.
23:04:37 <ehird> The expert on strongly-optimising brainfuck compilers is lifthrasiir; the expert on copying lifthrasiir's work on strongly-optimising brainfuck compilers and then adding their own dubious optimisations before their whole architecture crashes and burns is AnMaster.
23:04:48 <ehird> The expert on writing regular brainfuck compilers is everyone in here and many people not in here.
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23:08:23 <Gregor> Spoken like a true someone-who-hates-AnMaster :P
23:09:03 <ehird> Hey, what I said about his bf compilers is totally true regardless of that.
23:09:38 <ehird> I mean, he *did* ask lifthrasiir how the extended Euclidean algorithm worked when trying to copy his code using it.
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23:18:25 <pikhq> (because I am too lazy to lug a largish desktop to places)
23:23:44 <ehird> What're you using?
23:29:58 <pikhq> It's also the first time I've used Windows 7. It appears to suck less than XP.
23:32:02 <ehird> It's better and it's worse. Mostly better, though.
23:32:33 <ehird> In distroly news, seeing as you're the only person who even remotely, vaguely cares about this stuff:
23:32:33 <ehird> [21:55] • ehird decides to adopt BFS for distro
23:32:33 <ehird> [22:00] ehird: Also, almost certainly x86; the only things that could make me consider 64-bit are long-term improvements and the extra registers, and right now I value support of the best ThinkPads and compatibility with old executables without multilib hell over those.
23:33:09 <ehird> (and, as I'm writing coreutils-type things for the goblin project (coreutils in Go, pretty much; headed by plan9 junkie uriel), looks like I've found my coreutils... at least once it's ready)
23:37:45 <pikhq> And seems reasonable regarding coreutils -- it's kinda hard to find non-suck coreutils for Linux.
23:38:05 <pikhq> The closest we've got is GNU coreutils, which has the following bits of non-suck: it functions.
23:43:49 <ehird> Closest is probably Heirloom Toolchest; at least it rabidly follows tradition instead of insanity.
23:44:21 <ehird> BFS is Con Kolivas' Brain Fuck Scheduler — no relation to the language except perhaps inspiration for the name — http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt
23:44:35 <ehird> Improves latency and performance massively on desktop machines.
23:44:57 <ehird> Con Kolivas worked on other desktop-related issues on the kernel before Leaving in a Huff(TM) in 2007, but it's easy enough to apply a patch.
23:46:03 <pikhq> How well-maintained is BFS? Did he completely avoid Linux after the writ of FLGE?
23:46:03 <ehird> I'm also considering scheduling the X server as realtime or BFS' SCHED_ISO thingymagic to improve responsiveness under load.
23:46:14 <ehird> pikhq: It's new; about a month or two old.
23:46:19 <ehird> It's well-maintained.
23:46:31 <ehird> It probably will be for the foreseeable future, as he uses it.
23:46:44 <ehird> The patch is only 219 KiB.
23:46:50 <ehird> Well, "only", but still.
23:46:52 <ehird> http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/2.6.31-sched-bfs-310.patch
23:46:56 <pikhq> Hmm. Alright, then. No reason not to and probably a good few good reasons to do that.
23:47:05 <ehird> The main file, sched_bfs.c, is just 6484 lines long.
23:47:32 <pikhq> Would be nice if Linux had pluggable schedulers.
23:47:42 <pikhq> Seems like it'd actually be a useful feature.
23:48:15 <ehird> ck (Con Kolivas) submitted a patch for switching scheduler at runtime.
23:48:18 <ehird> The kernel team rejected it as useless.
23:48:52 <ehird> pikhq: Did you know that the Debian kernels are optimised for servers?
23:49:07 <ehird> And requests for a desktop-optimised one are replied to with "No, kthxbai".
23:49:20 <ehird> http://lwn.net/Articles/350178/
23:49:28 <pikhq> Fairly well aware that they do that by default. Didn't realise they actually avoided a desktop one.
23:50:41 <ehird> I'll probably desktop-optimise the kernel and use it on servers too.
23:50:53 <ehird> Low latency on desktop trumps supercomputer server performance.
23:50:55 <pikhq> I enabled the preemptive stuff the minute it was mainline for x86_64.
23:51:03 <ehird> and I cba fiddling with two separate kernel variations
23:51:05 <ais523> also interesting from that that Debian users are twice as likely to use Gnome as KDE; I wonder if that includes Ubuntu users or not?
23:51:12 <ehird> ais523: because gnome is default with debian
23:51:16 <ehird> you can't even install kde with the default installer
23:51:20 <pikhq> The same is true of the tickless kernel stuff...
23:51:38 <ehird> pikhq: BFS is actually supposed to be used with ticks, I think...
23:51:43 <ehird> not that it really matters
23:52:08 <ehird> pikhq: Incidentally, BFS compiles the kernel faster than CFS.
23:52:24 <ehird> http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/2632rc3v2631bfs303-kbuild.png
23:52:38 <ehird> Ever so slightly but it does.
23:53:37 * ehird skips along writing tools for goblin
23:53:56 <ehird> uname is blocked because syscall.{Uname,Utsname} are undefined on amd64/darwin for some reason :/
23:54:10 <ehird> mkdir almost works :P
23:55:41 <pikhq> Not supporting POSIX, then?
23:56:27 <ehird> (Goblin isn't my project, anyway.)
23:56:32 <ehird> I'm just contributing.
23:56:40 <ehird> "Goblin is a recreation from scratch of the traditional Unix and Plan 9 command line tools but this time built using the Go programming language.
23:56:40 <ehird> The goal is elegance and simplicity more than compliance with older implementations."
23:56:53 <ehird> Flags to cat are definitely not elegant or simple, so...
23:56:59 <ehird> Besides, not many scripts use flags to cat.
23:57:06 <pikhq> Oh, the goal is to be a good set of coreutils, not a POSIXly correctly coreutils.
23:57:19 <ehird> So I don't have any qualms about omitting them.