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04:54:51 <Ilari> Wonder what else than just XHRs it let to do...
04:55:55 <ais523> JavaScript is relatively well sandboxed; ofc, there'd be more of a problem if another bug let the JS escape the sandbox
04:56:25 <Ilari> Such bugs are almost certainity.
04:56:26 <ais523> still, hearing about a tarball exploit is kind-of funny, just like hearing about image file exploits in Windows
04:57:27 <Ilari> And being able to do arbitrary XHR, its not bound by same-origin. And then one wonders what other nonstandard permissions it has.
04:57:43 <ais523> same-origin hardly makes a lot of sense, given that it's a tarball
04:58:04 <ais523> hmm... same origin would presumably mean the local filesystem, I /hope/ it can't XHR there
04:58:26 <ais523> if the URL is a file:// URL, does XHR ever let you do that?
04:58:28 <Ilari> Applying same-origin here would disallow XHR completely.
04:58:56 <Ilari> Since it would only allow file:// and those can't be XHR'd to.
04:59:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net").
05:00:15 <ais523> ok, I'm glad that file:// can't be XHR'd to
05:00:24 * ais523 vaguely wonders if IE knows that
05:04:02 <Ilari> ais523: AFAIK, XHR'ing file:// makes as much sense as sending form to file:// URL.
05:04:22 <ais523> at least I can understand what the semantics of the first should be
05:05:05 <ais523> (besides, you /can/ send forms to file:// URLs, if you have a file whose name ends ?key1=value1&key2=value2, etc)
05:05:34 <ais523> (the issue is you need a separate file for each possible form input)
05:05:47 <ais523> hmm... now I want to invent a really weird filesystem driver that effectively creates a CGI filesystem
05:26:06 <ais523> as in, certain filenames automatically do weird things
05:26:15 <ais523> rather than just get a static file from disc, it's auto-generated, for instance
05:26:19 <ais523> sort-of like /proc, but different
05:27:20 <ais523> basically, it makes an HTTP request from inside JavaScript running on a browser
05:27:27 <ais523> the XML part is completely irrelevant, presumably there for historical reasons
05:27:41 <ais523> which, likewise, may not actually involve XML
05:30:28 <AnMaster> ais523, hm what is a good algorithm for collision detection between 2D circles?
05:30:51 <ais523> calculate the distance between their centres (using pythagoras)
05:30:53 <ais523> if that's less than the sum of their radii, they collided
05:30:58 <ais523> this works in any number of dimensions
05:31:12 <ais523> circles are particularly easy shapes to do collision detection with :)
05:31:40 <AnMaster> ais523, what about a circle and a rectangle?
05:31:59 <AnMaster> ais523, the rectangle may be rotated btw
05:32:06 <ais523> you need to find what point on the rectangle is closest to the centre of the circle, by comparing coordinates
05:32:10 <ais523> then measure the distance to that
05:32:11 <FireFly> heh, that circle collision one is neat, I've used that before
05:32:21 <ais523> so, first you determine where the centre of the circle is, in the rectangle's coordinate system
05:32:30 <ais523> then you see whether it's nearest one of the corners or one of the sides
05:32:42 <ais523> and I was really young at the time
05:34:41 <AnMaster> ais523, what about collision detection of two circles to make them bounce realistically against each other?
05:34:51 <AnMaster> as in, calculating which directions they will bounce off in
05:35:01 <AnMaster> they may have different speeds and may not collide head on
05:35:08 <ais523> collision detection to see whether they hit each other
05:35:19 <ais523> then, you do the coefficient of restitution algorithms
05:35:33 <ais523> rather neatly, if the balls are perfectly elastic you can just swap the momentums of the two balls
05:35:40 <ais523> but if they aren't, you need to do a bit of A-level mechanics
05:36:10 <ais523> AnMaster: the exams people in the UK do just before they go to university
05:36:38 <AnMaster> ais523, well, perfectly elastic sounds fine here
05:37:05 <AnMaster> ais523, what about perfectly inelastic
05:37:23 <ais523> then you average the momentums, and both balls move at that average
05:37:35 <ais523> they stay stuck next to each other forever, if it's perfectly inelastic
05:44:30 <uorygl> You can't just swap their momenta; that's only if they hit head-on.
05:47:15 <ais523> even for glancing blows it works
05:47:25 <ais523> you don't reverse the momenta
05:47:29 <ais523> you swap them between the two circles
05:47:48 <AnMaster> ais523, what if one is moving faster and hit the other straight from behind?
05:48:10 <ais523> then the one in front ends up moving faster, and the one behind ends up movign slower
05:49:03 <AnMaster> ais523, what if one is static and unmovable (say, forming part of the scenery?
05:49:18 <ais523> then that's a different situation
05:49:40 <ais523> effectively, there are /two/ collisions involved there: circle with circle, and circle with fixed background
05:49:42 <AnMaster> lets say a circle bouncing against the edge of the simulation
05:49:45 <ais523> which changes the situation quite a bit
05:50:07 <AnMaster> ais523, no, I meant just a circle and the background
05:50:18 <ais523> if you have a circle bouncing against a fixed straight line, you just mirror its motion around that line, then translate by the diameter of the circle
05:50:20 <AnMaster> which is probably just the screen edges
05:50:34 <ais523> AnMaster: no, basically, the only physical reason something wouldn't move is that it's held in place
05:50:40 <uorygl> ais523: maybe I'm not sure what you mean by swapping them.
05:50:46 <ais523> if you're trying to model the physics, you have to model what's holding it in place
05:50:57 <ais523> uorygl: before the collision, circle a has velocity v_a, circle b has velocity v_b
05:51:06 <ais523> afterwards, circle a has velocity v_b, circle b has velocity v_a
05:51:13 <AnMaster> ais523, well I'm not exactly. I'm trying to model a semi-realistic game of pong with multiple balls and gravity
05:51:27 <uorygl> Then for glancing blows, they'll move exactly as if they had hit head-on.
05:51:40 <ais523> uorygl: no, because the velocities are different
05:51:47 <ais523> for a glancing blow, the velocities are similar beforehand
05:51:49 <ais523> so they're similar afterwards
05:52:06 <ais523> whereas for a head-on collision, the velocities change by a lot because they were very different beforehand
05:52:13 <uorygl> Oh, maybe we're not using "glancing blow" the same way.
05:52:14 <ais523> same formula, different effects
05:52:25 <uorygl> Consider a glancing blow when they're moving in opposite directions.
05:52:26 <ais523> ooh, I see what you mean now
05:52:34 <ais523> you're right, you have to allow for that case
05:52:44 <AnMaster> ais523, what happens in that case then?
05:53:10 <ais523> what I gave was a simplification
05:53:18 <uorygl> I think you have to decompose the momenta into two components and swap only one component.
05:53:40 * AnMaster currently tracks it as delta_x and delta_y
05:53:53 <ais523> perhaps it would be easier if AnMaster just learnt basic mechanics
05:53:55 <AnMaster> for ease of calculating next position
05:53:57 * uorygl ponders what to call those components.
05:54:15 <AnMaster> ais523, I forgot the stuff due to having a bad teacher in high school
05:54:32 <ais523> uorygl: it's the components normal to the shared tangent that are swapped
05:54:39 <ais523> and the components parallel to the shared tangent that stay the same
05:55:16 <uorygl> I wonder why I know this stuff. >.>
05:55:23 <fizzie> Worst physics teacher ever, generated small black holes everywhere.
05:55:34 <ais523> what I said previously assumed there was no component parallel to the shared tangent, which ofc isn't true in practice
05:55:52 <ais523> AnMaster: if you're trying to be really realistic with the physics, though, you'd model the effects of spin too
05:55:57 <uorygl> Well, it more assumed that the components parallel to the shared tangent were identical.
05:56:03 <ais523> because people use that a lot in actual table tennis
05:56:05 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm not going that far
05:56:17 <AnMaster> not for the initial version anyway
05:56:25 <uorygl> I.e. as far as momentum went, the system was symmetrical.
05:56:48 <AnMaster> ais523, it isn't like the way the ball collides with the paddle is very realistic anyway in pong
05:57:49 <uorygl> Trivia: if a small black hole were charged, it would quickly absorb a particle of the opposite charge and become uncharged; if it were uncharged, it would hardly do anything. Assuming, as a worst-case scenario, that Hawking radiation doesn't work.
05:58:32 <ais523> well, even if it does, it's unlikely to evaporate instantly
05:59:05 <AnMaster> ais523, would that radiation be harmful?
05:59:26 <ais523> there wouldn't be enough of it to measure unless you had an LHC-quality radiation detector
05:59:45 <ais523> although IIRC it would probably be in the gamma region, so theoretically harmful if you had enough of it
05:59:54 <uorygl> Well, it depends on the size. How much mass is emitted by a light bulb each second?
06:00:02 <AnMaster> I mean, I have seen it mentioned a lot recentlu
06:00:20 <ais523> I was assuming "small black hole" = a few particles
06:00:24 <uorygl> AnMaster: that's because it's the name of a person that people have mentioned a lot recently.
06:00:36 <uorygl> Specifically, the owner of yudkowsky.net, who writes at lesswrong.com.
06:00:48 <AnMaster> uorygl, never heard of those web sites
06:01:27 <uorygl> When I first came across Yudkowsky, I found his stuff very interesting.
06:03:16 <uorygl> So, I guess I recommend it.
06:04:58 <ais523> heh, some Wikipedian made a list of all the things that are possible in Windows XP but not Windows Vista
06:05:03 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista
06:06:12 <fizzie> That'll be one long list of references after every statement is sourced.
06:06:31 <ais523> * The Log Off confirmation on the classic Start menu has been removed. <--- this
06:06:47 <ais523> not that it's that big a problem, just that the entry still says "Log off..." with three dots
06:06:55 <ais523> it gets me every time as I wait several minutes for the dialog box to come up
06:07:02 <ais523> no dots, and it wouldn't be a problem
06:07:14 <AnMaster> ais523, those dots. what happen instead?
06:07:22 <ais523> it just logs off, without confirmation
06:07:33 <AnMaster> ais523, then why waiting several minutes?
06:07:35 <ais523> but ... at the end of a menu item implies "dialog box coming" pretty much everywhere
06:07:41 <ais523> AnMaster: because that's how long it takes to log out
06:07:54 <AnMaster> ais523, why are you using vista?
06:07:58 <ais523> incidentally, I found something similar in Gnome network-manager today
06:08:04 <AnMaster> I mean, xp or 7 I can understand
06:08:07 <ais523> AnMaster: public terminals, I'm not always on my laptop
06:08:17 <AnMaster> but vista is just incomprehensible
06:08:32 <ais523> the network-manager problem is that if you try to make a global change, you get a ... at the end of whatever the OK button is called
06:08:44 <ais523> because you need to enter an auth password to change settings globally
06:08:54 <AnMaster> ais523, all windows computers at the university I'm at seems to run English XP Pro
06:08:57 <ais523> but if you already have a remembered password (i.e. on the sudo timeout), the dots are still there
06:09:00 <ais523> even though it doesn't prompy
06:09:06 <ais523> AnMaster: it's a mix of XP, Vista, and 7 here
06:09:09 <AnMaster> ais523, but with classicl look
06:09:13 <ais523> the computer in my office runs 7
06:11:25 <ais523> "Windows Vista restricts the amount of memory DPMI programs can have to 32 MB (33,554,432 bytes). The limitation applies to DPMI programs running inside NTVDM. [59] The same is not true for previous versions of Windows."
06:11:37 <ais523> and an issue for C-INTERCAL, I think
06:11:44 <ais523> given that it uses NTVDM when running the DOS build under Windows
06:12:27 <AnMaster> "The Gopher protocol is no longer supported."
06:13:01 <AnMaster> ais523, why can't you compile C-INTERCAL to use cygwin or something?
06:13:13 <AnMaster> ais523, or just windows directly
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06:13:20 <ais523> cygwin you can, just that's a different build
06:13:31 <ais523> and running the DOS build on Windows is useful, mostly because it's hard to test otherwise
06:13:38 <oerjan> um i haven't read it yet
06:14:00 <oerjan> just brought up mezzacotta
06:14:41 <ais523> what's with all the iwc reminders in here?
06:14:55 <AnMaster> ais523, "who is first to mention IWC" game
06:15:20 <ais523> oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
06:15:21 <AnMaster> ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
06:15:53 <ais523> I mentioned it first at this end
06:16:15 <ais523> (and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"...
06:16:36 <ais523> 22:15:20 <ais523> oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
06:16:37 <ais523> 22:15:21 <AnMaster> ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
06:17:03 <AnMaster> ais523, I do not acknowledge clog as an authority in these matters
06:17:56 <fizzie> I say ais523 wins, too. Not that my authority is any more justified.
06:17:56 <uorygl> 14:10:45 < ais523> oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
06:17:56 <uorygl> 14:10:45 < AnMaster> ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
06:18:04 <uorygl> You cannot escape the win.
06:18:42 <AnMaster> we need exact sub-second timestamps from precisely aligned clocks or something
06:19:35 <fizzie> For the records, my timestamps were 16:10:45 for both.
06:20:27 <oerjan> <ais523> (and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"...
06:20:29 <fizzie> oklopol: A winner is him.
06:20:46 <oerjan> i never metaw *hit by falling anvil*
06:20:55 <oklopol> i wonder when AnMaster'll realize he's always the one with the bigger lag
06:21:48 <AnMaster> oklopol, but I win due to using ipv6 to connect. Since the lag introduced by the tunnel is not counted due to it being so cool or something. Unless ais523 is also using ipv6?
06:22:02 <oerjan> AnMaster: also i saw ais523 first too
06:22:23 <oklopol> then it's a bit hard to say who wins
06:22:55 <oklopol> well i suppose you win if none of the lag is counted
06:23:17 <AnMaster> oklopol, oh the ipv4 lag is counted
06:23:22 <AnMaster> just not the bit due to the tunnel
06:23:31 <AnMaster> which is indeed hard to calculate
06:23:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, really it should be based on locally hitting enter
06:23:51 <AnMaster> which is very hard to calculate
06:24:53 <ais523> but you had the advantage based on the fact that you made the comment that triggered it
06:24:53 <ais523> so you'll have seen the trigger first
06:25:28 <AnMaster> ais523, however I wrote a much longer line
06:25:41 <AnMaster> ais523, so I must have started writing that line way before you did
06:25:42 <fizzie> The comment with the smaller SHA1 hash wins.
06:25:59 <ais523> fizzie: have you calculated them?
06:26:06 <ais523> also, hashing based on what content?
06:26:11 <ais523> just the bit after the nick? the whole message/
06:26:16 <ais523> if the whole message, as seen from which server?
06:26:22 <ais523> or are we writing nicks as <ais523>
06:26:27 <ais523> does the final newline count?
06:26:41 <fizzie> Just the message parameter part. And without the final newline; that's a message separator anyway.
06:26:50 <fizzie> "The bit after the nick", that is.
06:27:07 <AnMaster> $ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum
06:27:07 <AnMaster> 0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef -
06:27:11 <AnMaster> $ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum
06:27:11 <AnMaster> e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 -
06:28:07 <uorygl> Just the message parameter part, without the final newline, as that's the part that the user has the most control over.
06:28:12 <AnMaster> with sha512sum you would win ais523 : 98e07e1aaff52703459c37d2c069dcf245e7a9dff8b217cc132fdbe52cd8a4399e7bd474ae5a34c3fed86aa8d6db7f2148ab8077dcdeb053acabede44ad8b435 vs 35fd098b72b5af8f3314c4d94df407c1bb0b06b86b4f04cd2b8a220a05600f292d5967f2bf9c8f55f979de6173d65ce5b70620bf8d296f018667b51afa8cb31f
06:28:23 <ais523> $ echo -n 'oh, it'"\'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | sha1sum4bdbea4adce1244fc1992c25027dc83510382b72 -
06:28:25 <ais523> $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"\'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | sha1sum
06:28:26 <ais523> 870b779382fc1782cab65d33fe31b346ac9d6d6f -
06:28:52 <ais523> although, strangely my client seems to have clipped a newline
06:29:02 <ais523> AnMaster: me = SHA1, you = SHA512
06:29:06 <ais523> that's why the results are different!
06:29:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> $ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum
06:29:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> 0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef -
06:29:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> $ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum
06:29:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 -
06:29:23 <fizzie> ais523: Your way gives an extra \ in the hash input.
06:29:30 <fizzie> ais523: Just remove the sha1sum part and you'll see.
06:29:41 * oerjan notes this metawar got far out of hand
06:29:47 <uorygl> `run echo "blah\"blah\"blah"
06:29:51 <fizzie> oerjan: I never metawar that didn't.
06:30:09 <ais523> $ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | md5sum
06:30:11 <ais523> e876a9a90f35c175d397018775def433 -
06:30:12 <ais523> $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | md5sum
06:30:14 <ais523> 94b963161db7696d693326c0748bd493 -
06:30:20 <ais523> fixing the backslash problem, looks like AnMaster wins on md5 too
06:30:47 <AnMaster> whirdpool? I don't seem to have any tool for calculating that around
06:31:07 <fizzie> Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing.
06:31:08 <ais523> $ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | crc32 /dev/stdin
06:31:10 <ais523> $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | crc32 /dev/stdin
06:31:40 <ais523> that's the Perl version
06:31:50 <ais523> which comes with Archive::Zip
06:32:13 <fizzie> AnMaster: Now you have sufficient information to find out, duh.
06:32:26 <ais523> presumably, whatever algorithm zipfiles use
06:32:33 <fizzie> AnMaster: You're the one who cares, duh?
06:33:20 <AnMaster> ais523, still, I think sha1sum is the one that should count
06:33:40 <AnMaster> <fizzie> Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing. <-- done it yet?
06:33:46 <ais523> AnMaster: I think timestamp is what should count
06:34:12 <AnMaster> ais523, yes and the local one when one hit enter. Do you use ntp?
06:34:21 <fizzie> A weighted sum of all SHA-3 second round competitors, weights from the number of published cryptanalysis papers about them.
06:34:23 * AnMaster is looking for how to enable subsecond timestamps
06:35:02 <ais523> AnMaster: it's nontrivial for me to enable sub/minute/ timestamps
06:35:02 <fizzie> Having the "competitors" themselves provide the timestamps introduces an obvious trust problem.
06:35:26 <AnMaster> ais523, sounds like a shitty irc client
06:35:40 <ais523> no, just one optimised for different things than you want
06:35:47 <fizzie> The only solution I can think of is to have a trusted third party (me) install surveillance devices to both of your apartments. Stop wriggling, this is for your own good.
06:36:15 <ais523> AnMaster: Konversation
06:36:16 <AnMaster> fizzie, I agreed to the former statement
06:36:33 <ais523> fizzie: I disagree, on the basis that I'm not currently /in/ my apartment
06:36:37 <ais523> so it wouldn't have the desired effect
06:36:51 <fizzie> ais523: Don't worry, I'll just have someone follow you around.
06:37:08 <fizzie> Maybe that's a bit too expensive for this purpose, though.
06:37:15 <ais523> fizzie: as long as they're good at esoprogramming and fun to talk to, I don't mind
06:37:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, also I'm not in an apartement
06:37:54 <ais523> (again, same here, but I wasn't sure about definitions...)
06:38:15 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* speeches ss wp youtube
06:38:22 <ais523> fungot: give me some garbage
06:38:23 <fungot> ais523: you could, but it is very weird. why didn't they just call it ten? that chick? dude. i mean, honestly. what's the hole card. that means you like shit!!!
06:38:29 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
06:38:35 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, if we continue to permit land to lie fallow or be set aside for them.
06:38:46 <ais523> fungot: heh, I like that style
06:38:49 <fungot> ais523: mr president, i would like to suggest that people can bring progress in the budgetary policy. it is disgraceful to change things, quite the reverse, it is not that but rather to the practice of executions in the usa because we have lost our bearings? this is a thinly veiled means of interfering in this process? the third point. the tragedy involving semira has shaken our society and, indeed, from country to country. whi
06:38:49 <fungot> AnMaster: despite the massive investment of the european parliament is well aware of the need to safeguard economies most dependent on coastal fishing, which contribute not only to goods and services.
06:38:51 <fizzie> "A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works.
06:39:06 <AnMaster> oh fizzie not fungot for the last line
06:39:07 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, madam president-in-office of the council, which has done most to expose real and fundamental problems of work and to consider that although the reduction in actual transportation costs. at the same time the european parliament has not taken the crisis in kosovo to an end.
06:39:19 <AnMaster> you seem confused about my kender
06:39:25 <ais523> fizzie: what's the chance that that style will start "mr president,"?
06:39:44 <AnMaster> <fizzie> "A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works. <-- as a matter of fact I do
06:40:16 <AnMaster> fizzie, separate bedroom (small) and office (also small)
06:40:18 <fizzie> ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable.
06:40:53 <fungot> ais523: mr president, on the basis of the charging system and also on how they should progress in future. the european refugee fund under category 3. in recent weeks and months to come.
06:40:53 <fizzie> ais523: I can do an empirical sampling of a thousand sentences or so if you like.
06:41:07 <ais523> I'm just wondering what causes it to do that
06:41:17 <ais523> does it take a random sentence and start with its first two words, for instance?
06:42:15 <AnMaster> <fizzie> ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable. <-- fungot not producing human readable output? XD
06:42:19 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, after a lively debate in stockholm, a special fund and that is the position in crafts and small and medium-sized cotton farms in greece, compared with fnord in it and that will not happen automatically, they are often housed in disgraceful conditions. this surely will be: ' very well, we need a uniform statute for asylum seekers and immigrants. the third aspect of this process, the middle east peace proc
06:42:38 <fizzie> ais523: It's just that every sentence in the corpus has had the special token START added in the beginning, and then those are modeled by the n-grams just like any other token; and the text generation starts with an (invisible) context "START".
06:42:51 <oklopol> fizzie: please make a graph about precidency.
06:43:14 <AnMaster> oklopol, I think the correct reply may be "augh"
06:43:30 <AnMaster> unless I saw a pun that wasn't there
06:44:34 <fizzie> It takes about a second or two of the Perl script to generate a sentence, so this sampling will take a moment.
06:44:35 <ais523> that reminds me of a really awful pun I heard a while back
06:44:52 <ais523> basically, the idea is that there was a pun competition
06:45:07 <ais523> and ten finalists submitted puns that they thought were really bad, and would beat the current record pun
06:47:04 <fizzie> Very intermediate results: http://pastebin.com/m39b468be
06:47:53 <fizzie> Notably, the Perl script might not perfectly correspond to what the bot itself does. (Especially if the bot has gone self-aware.)
06:48:02 <oklopol> hehe, i started reading those as a list of things you can address someone ass
06:48:21 <ais523> oklopol: they mostly are, if you think about it
06:48:34 <oklopol> mr president and madam president work
06:48:36 <ais523> "ladies and", for instance
06:48:50 <ais523> is "ladies and gentlemen" almost certainly
06:49:12 <ais523> AnMaster: somehow, you being unable to spot the pun is funnier than the actual pun
06:49:30 <AnMaster> ais523, can you please point it out
06:49:56 <fizzie> ais523: That one instance actually goes: "ladies and gentlemen, mrs neyts-uyttebroeck, ladies and gentlemen, poverty in the european convention."
06:50:17 <ais523> fizzie: that's fungot output? or the original?
06:50:21 <fungot> ais523: mr president, i have always welcomed his proposals in this house we would disagree, but on the form such compromises could take. i ask for your support and i thank the rapporteur mrs giannakou-koutsikou, but also the new media will completely replace the old regulation just in time, would be very similar. this will always be positive and i speak to you not as a member of the same group, included the republic of lithuani
06:50:30 <fizzie> ais523: Fungot output, sorry.
06:50:46 <oklopol> AnMaster: point is the last sentence doesn't really work except as a pun
06:51:00 <AnMaster> oklopol, well yes the grammar is wrong
06:51:03 <ais523> oklopol: I think AnMaster hasn't seen the pun at all yet
06:51:11 <ais523> the grammar isn't quite wrong, but it is rather tortured
06:51:16 <AnMaster> I know what line it should be in
06:51:16 <ais523> which is a clue that it's a punchline
06:51:17 <oklopol> i'm just telling him where it is.
06:51:27 <AnMaster> but I'm unable to spot it. I even read it aloud
06:51:42 <oklopol> and indeed the grammar isn't really wrong, it's just a really weird way to reference the puns
06:51:53 <fizzie> First 103 samples: http://pastebin.com/m34f18f81
06:52:24 <oklopol> addressing someone as "the problem" might not be very polite
06:52:31 <ais523> well, "no pun intended" is a standard phrase
06:52:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, why is the perl script so slow?
06:52:46 <AnMaster> fizzie, even fungot seems faster
06:52:49 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, we must emphasise civilian missions, in which respect for the state to protect citizens against serious crimes, including terrorism, if those conditions are met, production methods could be used to raise funds. i am opposed to short-term growth and in favour of the well-prepared report by my friend and fellow member, mr berenguer fuster is: should mobile telephone suppliers not be treated less favourably
06:52:59 <fizzie> AnMaster: Yes, well, everyone who's serious about performance uses Funge-98 nowadays.
06:54:00 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, our rapporteurs have centred their considerations both on the part of my portfolio but more particularly because an accurate analysis of the many obstacles we have experienced many times in this house, not to be the only indicator used. we need to adopt them, because those of us who live in europe, despite the pledges of financial support for their survival.
06:54:07 <AnMaster> fungot, you are usually faster IME
06:54:08 <fungot> AnMaster: we are unfortunately witnessing the phenomenon of the new powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction of coins and notes. it seems that it is only transitional, and this change has taken and which has undergone one civil war and human rights.
06:54:19 <fizzie> The Perl script is more clever when it comes to punctuation (maintains a stack of things that need be closed), but I doubt that's a major contribution.
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06:55:58 <AnMaster> fizzie, " 1 commission. (de)"?
06:56:12 <fizzie> Probably a preprocessing problem somewhere.
06:56:17 <fungot> AnMaster: mr president, that the way forward in this matter is still being discussed. i doubt whether anyone here would support it. finally on foreign policy and in the green paper expressly states and that the establishment of a european tourist agency necessary from every point of view, i am extremely disappointed to see that there is no monitoring, or at first reading between what is state aid which is not fully functioning,
06:57:02 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
06:57:04 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
06:57:14 <fizzie> The sword alone can't stop!
06:57:23 <AnMaster> fizzie, I was waiting for that comment
06:57:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, however you need to highlight it
06:57:59 <fizzie> fungot: Can the sword alone stop?
06:57:59 <fungot> fizzie: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much!
06:58:11 <fungot> AnMaster: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
06:58:26 <ais523> that's the second time fungot's done "we are looking to achieve a shorter life span"
06:58:41 <fizzie> AnMaster: That's what Gaspar says if you try to use the bucket in End of Time.
06:58:45 <ais523> we flagged it as unusual the first time and discussed it for a while
06:58:51 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
06:59:01 <ais523> fungot: see if you can make the comments more intelligible than they were before, it shouldn't be hard
06:59:02 <fungot> ais523: then he said it looks absolutely nothing like this. jealousy? ( i can't wait for this plane 3 of the airfield, such as ' the tv is talking about.
06:59:08 <fizzie> AnMaster: "Only go there if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you to leave this mortal coil." Or something like that, I don't have the text here.
06:59:50 <ais523> fungot: again again! again again!
06:59:50 <fungot> ais523: since 1988, air france 296
07:00:27 <fizzie> OLD MAN: That Gate leads to 1999 A.D... It leads to the "Day of Lavos"... Go there only if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you leave this mortal coil.
07:00:55 <fizzie> That wasn't so far off.
07:03:07 <ais523> fungot's so fun to talk to
07:03:08 <fungot> ais523: please check your facts before spouting off their mouths. air france entry on wikipedia for all!
07:03:14 <fizzie> Well, out of a sample of N=239, 64.0 % start with "mr president,", 12.1 % with "madam president," and the highest single other possibilities are around 1.3 %.
07:05:14 <fungot> oerjan: when they threw the guy who wrote the game, but it was
07:05:34 <fungot> Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books)
07:05:37 <fizzie> This style seems prone of stopping in the middle of something.
07:05:40 <fungot> AnMaster: lord mcsweeney nodded. ' take it, please.'
07:06:04 <fungot> AnMaster: the sky was full of little fnord, forested country of lancre.
07:06:31 <AnMaster> fungot, I thought lancre was mainly mountainous?
07:06:32 <fungot> AnMaster: a wave submerged brutha. for a while. the audience watched in fascinated silence. quarney nodded mutely.
07:06:51 <ais523> AnMaster: it has lots of forests too, presumably they're on the mountains
07:07:24 <fizzie> And lots of little fnords.
07:07:52 <oerjan> mountains, sky, close enough
07:09:54 <fizzie> Ooh, "mr president-in-office" is also one way to start.
07:10:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, you should add hitchhikers guide to the galaxy in there
07:11:00 <fizzie> Didn't I try? I thought I tried. Maybe I didn't.
07:11:42 <fizzie> I think I was a bit bored of books at that point. They all sound more or less the same, except of course not at all.
07:11:52 * AnMaster notes it is rather unusual to hold two concurrent conversations with one person in real life. Yet it happens all the time on irc
07:12:09 <fizzie> 4 instances in ~300 or so.
07:12:22 <ais523> AnMaster: no, but often enough that I notice
07:13:06 <ais523> mostly I do it with ehird, or did
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07:13:36 <AnMaster> ais523, I wonder when he will tell what the issue is
07:13:37 <fizzie> "unfortunately, this decision has to be developed without at the same time, so it will be hard to be sure of that, it will be difficult." The form of politics-speak, the bot does grok it.
07:14:31 <AnMaster> fizzie, it sounds incoherent certainly
07:15:02 <fizzie> "there is no shortage of those in many member states of the union to have a greater proportion of elderly people who are treated with suspicion. this must not be the reasons that i have worked a lot with this."
07:15:15 <fizzie> Well, it's good that we're not short of elderly people to treat with suspicion.
07:15:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, especially since it results in lots of work for politicians it seems
07:17:11 <fizzie> Haha. "i support a strong political message to european citizens, who are often harmed by them."'
07:17:28 <fizzie> An honest politician, how refreshing.
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08:34:54 <fizzie> http://pastebin.com/m6f85b8d for the whole set of 1000. So around 60.7 % chance, according to this particular test.
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08:59:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, what percentage of the source data sentences start with "mr president"?
09:02:05 <fizzie> Left work already, in a bus now.
09:02:30 <fizzie> It *should* be a very similar percentage.
09:04:52 <fizzie> I may not have used the full europarl corpus for the training, though.
09:05:09 <AnMaster> * Ping reply from fizzie: 2.22 second(s)
09:05:26 <AnMaster> you are aware of that you are marked away?
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09:13:36 <ais523> AnMaster: heh, your tab-complete has got screwed up
09:13:49 <ais523> luckily that's unlikely to hurt me, as I rarely need to tab-complete my /own/ name...
09:14:01 <ais523> although, it's weird to not be first in alphabetical order
09:14:08 <AnMaster> ais523, in fact I highlight last spoken
09:14:14 <AnMaster> so not an issue once you spoke
09:14:25 <AnMaster> assuming this AirCastle doesn't speak after you
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09:14:56 <AnMaster> CallForJudgement, now my nick column is too wide
09:15:21 <AnMaster> CallForJudgement, seems so completely not you
09:15:23 <CallForJudgement> [17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on callforjudgement (account ais523):
09:15:24 <CallForJudgement> [17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Aug 26 13:16:53 2009 (15 weeks, 2 days, 03:53:37 ago)
09:16:02 <CallForJudgement> anyway, with this nick I can sit here sorting out arguments via deus ex machina
09:17:06 <AnMaster> CallForJudgement, I think 1064 happened once
09:18:29 <AnMaster> CallForJudgement = sqrt(-ais523)
09:30:47 <fizzie> I almost tab-AirCastled earlier today.
09:35:56 <fizzie> Out of 63045 comments of the Europarl data, 28954 match "grep -i '^mr president'".
09:36:22 <fizzie> That's significantly less than 60 %, but on the other hand I don't really remember at this point what my training set was.
09:42:42 <fizzie> Oh, there's quite a pile of whitespace, too. The bit more robust '^[^a-z]*mr president' is matched by 34372 lines.
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10:09:07 <poiuy_qwert> yay, on my way to making my IRC bot in an esoteric language!
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11:19:09 <AnMaster> funny opposite of typo: I read "google fu trends"
11:38:18 <AnMaster> CallForJudgement, nice order url: https://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/labyrinth.cgi
11:39:06 <AnMaster> labyrinth.cgi well yeah, their order system is in fact unusually easy to navigate
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12:26:39 <uorygl> The first part of a Haskell expression: ["ais523","ais569","ais661","ais707","ais753","ais799","ais891","ais937","ais983","ais29","ais121","ais167","ais213","ais259","ais351","ais397","ais443","ais489","ais581","ais627","ais673","ais719"
12:26:47 <uorygl> Continue the sequence.
12:27:14 <uorygl> Note that there is indisputably only one way to continue that sequence that makes sense.
12:28:19 <pikhq> Adding an infinite number of []s to the list also makes sense.
12:28:49 <uorygl> Yes, but it doesn't make nearly as much sense.
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12:32:17 <pikhq> "checking whether to build shared libraries... no\nchecking whether to build shared libraries... yes"
12:34:19 <fizzie> You will end up with some sort of schroedi-libs that are and are not built at the same time.
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13:37:22 <ehirdiphone> "One thing's for sure: until you have a backup strategy of some kind, you're screwed, you just don't know it yet. If backing up your data sounds like a hassle, that's because it is. Shut up. I know things. You will listen to me. Do it anyway." —Coding Horror
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13:37:44 <CallForJudgement> wait, did ehird come in here just to give us a Coding Horror quote?
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13:38:09 <ehirdiphone> "Coding Horror experienced 100% data loss at our hosting provider, CrystalTech."
13:38:16 <CallForJudgement> (and I did a complete (full for some things, incremental for others, but complete combined with previous backups) backup yesterday
13:39:05 <CallForJudgement> I have (very recent) backups on a USB stick, (also very recent) backups on the same drive that they're backing up (insurance against accidental rms)
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13:40:34 <CallForJudgement> e.g. when you copy data from one computer to another, do you always delete the original?
13:40:56 <ehirdiphone> Never lost anything apart from some ripped music. Easy to rip again.
13:41:55 <FireFly> I wonder what computational class brainfuck with only >, but with bounded memory and an extra instruction to add one memory slot to the memory would have
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13:42:07 <CallForJudgement> as in, a power cut will cause the entire file to always be on either one computer, or the other
13:42:08 <FireFly> Where the memory would wrap when it reaches the end
13:42:34 <ehirdiphone> FireFly: Minimax did that iirc ask CallForJudgement
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13:43:14 <FireFly> Well, it's still interesting
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13:43:30 <CallForJudgement> although, clearly what FireFly says is TC, because you can compile arbitrary coprime DownRight programs into it
13:43:44 <CallForJudgement> also, DownRight is an esolang that is not vaporware, just I haven't put it on the wiki yet
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13:44:30 <CallForJudgement> and the name was obsolete really quickly because it really doesn't matter if you can move up and left too
13:44:35 <FireFly> But you plan writing something on the wiki about it?
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13:45:05 <FireFly> Sounds similar to what I described, but 2D-ish
13:45:07 <CallForJudgement> part of the issue is that it's rather close to Bitwise Cyclic Tag, in that it trivially round-trips
13:47:49 <CallForJudgement> you can come up with a few variants of it, one of which I think but don't know is sub-TC
13:48:27 <CallForJudgement> and another one is clearly also TC, but feels sort-of super-TC in that I can't figure out any way to compile existing programs into it while using all the features
13:49:20 <FireFly> First I thought you referred to a certain computational class
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14:51:56 <ais523> well, I've been working entirely mentally on a new esolang
14:52:23 <ais523> ah, I didn't realise you were here for that
14:52:34 <ais523> basically, its source is a 2d matrix of string fragments
14:52:45 <ais523> each of which is a possibly empty list made out of "down" and "right"
14:53:03 <ais523> the matrix is effectively toroidal (bottom goes to top, right, goes to left)
14:53:11 <ehirdiphone> Oh, and to answer a question penned by AnMaster yesterday: Yudkowsky is one of the forefront singularitarians and rationalists.
14:53:20 <ais523> basically, there's a queue, and the contents of the current square get added to the end of the queue
14:53:43 <ais523> you can add I/O in a pretty simple way, but it's nice and pure without it
14:54:08 <ais523> I've already mentally proved it TC, in three different ways
14:54:16 <ais523> (simulating tag, simulating cyclic tag, simulating a Minsky machine)
14:55:34 <ais523> the matrix itself loops round from bottom to top, and from right to left
14:55:49 <ais523> now, what interests me is that all the ways I can thing of to program in involve using one dimension as data, and another as code
14:56:03 <ais523> they don't have to be top-to-bottom and left-to-right, you could use, say, diagonals
14:56:31 <ais523> but the basic distinguishing feature is, that if you allowed up and left movement too
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14:56:44 <ais523> you could design it so that the code never needed to wrap
14:56:47 <ais523> but the data would still need to wrap
14:57:07 <ais523> (I haven't managed to prove, but strongly suspect, that non-wrapping UpLeftDownRight is sub-TC)
14:58:06 <ais523> anyway, take that Qdecl
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14:59:02 <fizzien900> (Sorry, just had to because of the ehirdiphone name.)
14:59:38 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if Qdeql is in fact TC despite the non-TCness argument on the wiki?
15:00:11 <ais523> arguably, the same argument proves DownRight sub-TC, except I know it's TC
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15:01:15 <coppro> I'd argue, except you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable people on this planet when it comes to TCness
15:01:25 <ais523> gah, I have to try to compile coprime DownRight into Qdeql here and see where it stops
15:01:36 <ais523> coppro: I'm not sure if the argument there's right or not
15:01:44 <ais523> it isn't obviously wrong, but it isn't obviously right either
15:02:18 <fizzien900> ehirdiphone_: Look, I have a phone-designator too.
15:04:25 <ais523> issue, mostly, is that Qdeql's flow control is really really nasty
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15:06:16 <ais523> oh, also that there's no way to delete anything from the queue
15:06:29 <ais523> except writing it to stdout
15:06:43 <ais523> hmm... assuming that we can get rid of useless data by throwing it to stdout, what happens?
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15:08:56 <ais523> ok, next issue is getting the data we need /in/ from stdin...
15:09:06 <ais523> well, not necessarily stdin
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15:09:49 <coppro> just write data to stdin
15:10:32 <ais523> I mean, even if we had a definite 10101010101010101010 in stdin, it would be hard to determine which to put there, as you can't skip stdin elements
15:10:36 <ais523> they all have to be enqueued somewhere
15:10:41 <ais523> and you can't dequeue them immediately
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15:25:46 <fizzien900> A conversation: http://pastebin.com/m1c481645
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22:15:42 <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> Oh, and to answer a question penned by AnMaster yesterday: Yudkowsky is one of the forefront singularitarians and rationalists. <-- well yes I know. Still doesn't explain why he has been mentioned a lot recently. For example: Why then has not Knuth been mentioned as much?
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22:18:05 <AnMaster> fizzien900 <-- I read that as fizzien 900 rather than fizzie n900 first. I quite like the sound of "fizzien"
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23:49:24 <uorygl> AnMaster: I think I mentioned his name because I vaguely remembered ehird saying something offensive about him.