< 1260768389 0 :hugo_dc!n=hugo@189.186.53.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260768417 0 :hugo_dc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi esoteric people :D < 1260769118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1260770863 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1260772017 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260773827 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Pong timeout: 180 seconds" < 1260774132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260774236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260774426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260774434 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260774442 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1260774730 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260776088 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260776744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MitD < 1260776749 0 :MitD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1260776889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :whatsthelongestn < 1260776893 0 :whatsthelongestn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1260777155 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260777599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1260779193 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1260779193 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260789466 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1260789602 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260789704 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1260794203 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-73-18.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260796917 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260800637 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260800733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260800733 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260800901 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260801323 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1260801667 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1260802236 0 :hugo_dc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Saliendo" < 1260802278 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-218.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260804121 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-mehuzfufpjtsugpc JOIN :#esoteric < 1260804254 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m6c8cd789 - draft of my (eso-ish)language < 1260804261 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i chane in your opinion < 1260804274 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know JGR can be replaced with JL and JE < 1260804277 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one spot is free for sure < 1260804314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like an asm < 1260804383 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one < 1260804388 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to be the "middleman" between RISC and CISC < 1260804411 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll add DIV and MOD < 1260804477 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1260804479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas < 1260804586 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1260804590 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit will be 20 commands < 1260804592 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding DIV and MOD < 1260804593 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else < 1260804682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523? < 1260805284 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have DIV and MOD, you need MUL < 1260805445 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta statements: PSH, POP, CAL, RET (possible with current commands, but makes it easier to implement methods) < 1260805489 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory-mapped registers: instruction pointer, stack pointer < 1260805523 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1260805550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1260805557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me, hours ago < 1260805589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers changing to checking iwc before logging on iwc
< 1260805593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, < 1260805602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/iwc$/irc/ < 1260805686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1260805816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chuckles slightly at today's Lightning Made of Owls
< 1260805878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1260806047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's Square Root of Minus Garfield is rather ... meta < 1260806206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: balrog, death < 1260806503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't cthulhu chair an organization of them at one point... < 1260806680 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1260806700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider MUL, CAL (EXT will be used as a RET) < 1260806702 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have 20 < 1260806798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Why did my first final have to be the earliest possible final? < 1260806807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had almost forgotten that there was an 8 AM. < 1260806810 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m55d244ff < 1260806816 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, MizardX < 1260806832 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about IP, i will consider it < 1260806956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 AM, the forgotten horror of the ancients < 1260806969 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m68f02f74 < 1260807066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The last time I was up that early, I had stayed up for it. < 1260807069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... A year ago. < 1260807075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1260807787 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260807787 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1260808056 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260808189 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260808796 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260809985 0 :ais523_unid!i=5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/x-vkaouxeveevsusuz JOIN :#esoteric < 1260810618 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented it < 1260810619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1260810682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/nybblings_beta.zip < 1260810686 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-164.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260811430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1260812571 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260814355 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk < 1260814358 0 :asie[afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk] < 1260814829 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260816926 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260817286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, asiekierka? < 1260817287 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1260817289 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, asiekierka! < 1260817418 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1260817425 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stumped < 1260817441 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka < 1260817536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastebin.com/m1613d8bd - works the first time, then it ignores the keyboard, then it works, etc... < 1260817965 0 :quantumEd!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1260818016 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is restricted brainfuck still turing complete? restriction is to interpret ] as } assert(p == oldP); < 1260818026 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that loops must end up where you started from < 1260818037 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1260818046 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so, yes. < 1260818073 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I think there are universal Turing machines that use only five cells. < 1260818103 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: i doubt it's been proven by anyone < 1260818106 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: so, you should do it! < 1260818276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it could possibly depend on whether individual cells are bounded or not < 1260818293 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, I finished my "eso"lang < 1260818296 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always think of it unbounded but I guess that's not really correct... < 1260818297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpreter is not buggy < 1260818301 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what's eso about it < 1260818307 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's "eso" < 1260818309 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked totally plain to me < 1260818312 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the fact that it has 20 commands < 1260818328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: some people like bounded, some like unbounded, and the properties of the two wrt turing-completeness are quite different < 1260818368 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, here's a neat idea: Brainfuck intros. Write a program in 4,096 BF instructions or less that runs on a tape with exactly 30,000 one-byte cells. It must output, in alternation, 307200 bytes interpreted as 256-color pixels on a 640x480 canvas, and 735 bytes interpreted as 8-bit 44100 Hz mono samples of a sixtieth of a second of audio. < 1260818452 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1260818468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1260818468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not 160x200 < 1260818471 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be better < 1260818508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1260818527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1260818530 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only 32000 bytes < 1260818531 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1260818536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why 4096 < 1260818540 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for BF you'd need 16384 < 1260818548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually someone DID write an intro in BF < 1260818549 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using text < 1260818552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 102x50 < 1260818555 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 9 kb i thin < 1260818556 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1260818557 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but EPOCH < 1260818561 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the intro shouldn't be in brainfuck < 1260818575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be in machine code, containing a brainfuck interpreter and its program < 1260818599 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend did that < 1260818607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ~200-byte x86 BF interpreter < 1260818607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fits in a bootsector < 1260818612 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads from bootdisk < 1260818616 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of folks put game of life into demos < 1260818621 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of lie < 1260818621 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of similar ? < 1260818624 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/nybblings_rc1.zip - Final, though might still have a bug or two, I seriously doubt it. < 1260818668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, 4,096 BF instructions. < 1260818678 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x480 so it can look fancy. It doesn't need to look fancy, but it can. < 1260818706 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it to look non-fancy, use a couple extra instructions to simulate a lower resolution. < 1260818979 0 :ais523_unid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1260819307 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1260819641 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260822660 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260823090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260825073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the Ubuntu auto-startup-disk-creator thing doesn't really work < 1260825078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to reformat the USB drive by hand < 1260825084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reformatting drives always gets me scared < 1260826053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: There's a thing called bfvga. < 1260826062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It maps the brainfuck tape to the 320x200 VGA screen memory. < 1260826073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It was used in some less-than-4k intro competition. < 1260826089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060 < 1260826120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not exactly the same thing, but related. < 1260826140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to map every second cell, rather than the whole thing, to give calculation space < 1260826158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose with some drivers, you could just have the tape actually in video memory...) < 1260826185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's a DOS thing and it does keep the tape actually in video memory. < 1260827692 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260828353 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1260828430 0 :ais523_new!i=93bcfe81@gateway/web/freenode/x-uotcaaziymvqpaxv JOIN :#esoteric < 1260828442 0 :ais523_new!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I online? < 1260828448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I'm online! < 1260828452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks Ubuntu driver person < 1260828463 0 :ais523_new!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1260829556 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260830970 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what driveryness did they help you with? < 1260830991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realtek rtl8191se < 1260831007 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260831016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go look at the relevant bug report, and find that there's a driver already written and just waiting to be approved < 1260831023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wiped out hours of someone else's work on a term project due today
< 1260831039 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260831865 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may sound silly, but is there a debian program that lists all nearby wireless networks, like windows has? < 1260831963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetworkManager < 1260832096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the systray icon? < 1260832106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1260832112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-click and you should get a list < 1260832115 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it says I am not connected to any network, even though I am on a LAN < 1260832124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird... < 1260832137 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it lists no wireless networks, even though there is on in the house < 1260832152 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the wired network it says "device not managed" < 1260832172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not managed means it's being connected some other way < 1260832257 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how? < 1260832273 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1260832282 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people seem to suggest changing the config fil in /etc < 1260832311 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260832313 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://waffle.wootest.net/2009/12/13/nobel-speak/ < 1260832318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1260832322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone! < 1260832326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1260832339 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA I AM FIRE hello < 1260832344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was worried when you didn't show up on the weekend < 1260832354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is considering an Android phone
< 1260832360 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loooooooooooooong story. < 1260832369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet < 1260832424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260832431 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The iPhone, despite numerous flaws, is superior in almost all the ways that matter. It feels like a seamless *interface*, not a gadget. < 1260832444 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, Android cannot compare. < 1260832482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I find the App Store policies abhorrent to the highest degree. < 1260832502 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone is just so much better it cancels out. < 1260832515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds the very concept of not being allowed to uses non-App Store apps abhorrent
< 1260832518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use < 1260832530 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreak it, then. But I < 1260832533 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : erm < 1260832559 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm serious: the iPhone is in an astronomically different league. < 1260832648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, do you know anything about Word's autorecovery features? < 1260832655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like someone is speaking from inside a Reality Distortion Field < 1260832674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quantumEd: it could possibly depend on whether individual cells are bounded or not < 1260832692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has too, a balanced bf program can obviously use only a fixed number of cells < 1260832696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1260832707 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced ? < 1260832726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's BFM seems relevant, it does things balanced unless you force it not to < 1260832747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: equal number of >< in all loops, what you said < 1260832771 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260832776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equivalent to what you said < 1260832822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i recall pikhq had quite a number of macros for doing things balancedly, so he may practically have proved it already < 1260832924 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1260832974 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1260832979 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260833052 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Bandy about distortion fields all you like: the iPhone's interface really is that much more crisp—and believe me, I wish it weren't so due to the App Store mess. < 1260833068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crispiness really that important? < 1260833079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with potato chips, ok >.> < 1260833110 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For a handheld device that must minimise fiddliness: it is everything. < 1260833115 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that the bitterness of limited functionality lingers on after the sweetness of user interface is forgotten < 1260833161 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: What limited functionality?—are you disparaging the extreme interface simplicity? < 1260833169 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I find plan 9 to have an acceptable user interface and most people think using it is like being dragged pantsless across across a gravel pit < 1260833180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think you just summed up humanity there ;D < 1260833232 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: well, I'm a pretty hardcore freedom-to-use-as-you-wish guy, so any device I'm not root on seems to be limited functionality to me - and I wasn't really taking sides on behalf of Android, since it is 'more open' not 'open' < 1260833240 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, changing the line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf worked to display the wired network logo < 1260833257 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no love for the wireless though < 1260833261 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: So an ideological objection. I agree, but: < 1260833262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, in what way in Android not open? < 1260833269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreaking; < 1260833273 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't root on the device without jailbreaking it < 1260833278 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so good it cancels out. < 1260833294 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Included apps aren't open, f.ex. < 1260833296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does jailbreaking work, exactly? < 1260833306 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be less vague. < 1260833312 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: its usually based on a privilege escalation exploit against the OS kernel < 1260833326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You plug in your phone, run a program on your computer: < 1260833332 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fizz bing pang < 1260833336 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broken. < 1260833384 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversible by resetting the phone's OS. < 1260833398 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is actually amazingly sharp at the 'its open but its not game' - youtube was telling me to download google chrome for linux - but its license agreement forbids me to copy, reverse engineer, try to access the source code... < 1260833415 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Chromium is open < 1260833425 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: but the chrome browser they wanted me to download was NOT < 1260833431 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome = Chromium + branding. < 1260833432 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand the scenario exactly < 1260833440 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Firefox is the same. M < 1260833452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Chrome = Chromium + branding + RLZ < 1260833458 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else can build and distribute Firefox. < 1260833463 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is not the same, for using firefox I did not have to agree to the same restrictive licensing terms as chrome asked me to < 1260833476 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must use different branding. < 1260833491 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, the chrome download license agreement is a hell of a lot different than mozilla license crap, which is still annoying, im an ICEWEASEL user < 1260833500 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W < 1260833526 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful, zealotry (ideology without relevant effect). < 1260833543 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not zealotry, its doing what the lawyers said they had to < 1260833564 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fight tha powah. < 1260833566 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if debian wanted to be able to patch firefox independently of mozilla and distribute that, they didnt have the legal choice to call it firefox < 1260833585 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I fail to see any zealotry whatsoever < 1260833591 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not referencing that. < 1260833616 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i dereferenced the pointer wrong, fix the stack < 1260833639 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, too much typing effort for iPhone usage. One thing no phone is good at is long typing. < 1260833657 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what *zealotry == < 1260833673 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^^ < 1260833862 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's just abolish copyright. There, debate ended with my own extremist position. < 1260833874 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im fine with that solution < 1260833882 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt seem extremist to me < 1260833894 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also patents, EULAs. < 1260833942 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, i think the overall consequences of that would actually be stimulative to the economy, despite a lot of short term disruption < 1260833987 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH! < 1260833991 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, it all works < 1260833999 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM < 1260834008 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I like the idea of abolishing EULAs. < 1260834011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: oh no, we're doomed! < 1260834018 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after changing the line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf (may or may not have made a difference)... < 1260834021 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, for mechanical processes and inventions, there is an argument that patents actually *encourage* sharing of information, because without patents, there is a very high incentive to keep inventions secret and simply use them for competitive advantage < 1260834023 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic command is: sudo iw dev wlan0 scan < 1260834036 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, I can see all these networks < 1260834042 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: They are already legally dubious. < 1260834058 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries going wireless-only
< 1260834061 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to take some sort of platonic rationality-assuming mathematical perspectives, having EULAs is equivalent to not having EULAs, because companies can just make you sign a contract before ever handing over the software. < 1260834065 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upheld in the apple/psystart case though < 1260834071 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s// < 1260834101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1260834114 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, of course, people are more likely to buy software and then sign a EULA for the software they've already paid for than sign a contract and then have access to the software. < 1260834116 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: correct, one of the big problems with totally abolishing IP law is that there would be a number of very perverse consequences, such as what you just mentioned and the decision to 'hoard' inventions rather than publishing them < 1260834116 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was easy < 1260834144 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if only / wasn't on a HD that used external power, I might be aple to actually take this laptop to places < 1260834150 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*able < 1260834153 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here, using my estimation of your economic beliefs to make you oppose copyright. < 1260834162 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Let me. < 1260834163 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoarding inventions is such a cute idea. < 1260834165 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the battery management was a bit better I supposed < 1260834168 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suppose < 1260834188 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of patents was to stop trade secrets < 1260834243 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Copyright = government granted monopoly on the copying of pieces of information, which cannot be created or destroed per se. < 1260834247 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intellectual property law with sane boundaries and time limits was intended to serve as an incentive on *behalf* of the open publication of information < 1260834257 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*destroyed < 1260834268 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "per se", do you mean "by itself"? < 1260834271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in a patent
< 1260834276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, use a different phrase, because that's what "per se" means. < 1260834299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4961476/description.html < 1260834299 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Oh, shut up, prescriptivist. < 1260834338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell what you mean by "per se". < 1260834370 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, really. You can't create or destroy abstract information. It's not physical. < 1260834381 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1260834399 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect right now if we elimated all copy protection for software, for instance, the effect would be to make a lot of current proprietary software distributors to switch over to an entirely remote-access client/server model where you pay for access time and you never get a copy of the software on your machine even as a binary < 1260834412 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you estimate my economic beliefs. < 1260834422 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: oh how very web-2.0 < 1260834430 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yudkowsky's. < 1260834442 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how anyone estimates Yudkowsky's economic beliefs. < 1260834446 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i think you mean how very 60s timesharing ;) < 1260834471 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to Hanson's but less... Prediction Market. < 1260834485 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y dem capitalise iPhone? < 1260834488 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: webmail? google docs? < 1260834503 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1260834531 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: So, completely free capitalist Market. < 1260834557 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Robin Hanson is an anarcho-capitalist. < 1260834569 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in many ways, he is. < 1260834583 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he's a futarchist. Stupid idea btw. M < 1260834590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1260834625 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah im aware that business model is already in effect and never went away after its initial appearance decades ago, its the oldest new thing in history - and google's understanding of the gpl2 loophole where they can create as many derivative works as they want and make them available on network, not distribute them, is brilliant. < 1260834626 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchocapitalism is silly. < 1260834653 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you enforce the monopoly on access to property? < 1260834663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the backbone of capitalism. < 1260834720 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think calling it an artificial monopoly on copying information doesn't really help me understand anything. < 1260834738 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all anarchism is based on the idea that people choose to cooperate voluntarily - and follow agreed upon rules without the use of force, in general. this is widely regarded as unrealistic. < 1260834750 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You oppose government monopolies. Yes? < 1260834755 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Incorrect. < 1260834788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing monopolies results in a price that is, in some sense, fair. < 1260834804 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchism's safety is in dissociation by small communities. < 1260834829 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that can't retrieve property. < 1260834840 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not wihout coersion. < 1260834843 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without < 1260834849 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets not define anarchism, it reminds me of the talk page for the wikipedia anarchism article which is one of the most verbose and long running pointless arguments i have ever seen < 1260834869 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence without state. < 1260834882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monopolies make the price move in a certain direction away from "fairness". < 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., without community sanctioned coersion. < 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka violence) < 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I am not an anarchist. < 1260835081 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk, you people! < 1260835081 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring ^ < 1260835124 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835129 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835135 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835135 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835135 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835136 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835136 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260835136 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net