< 1261526417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should narrow the search field down < 1261526483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lives in Las Vegas, 39 years or older, name of Mike Riley, lived in Switzerland some years ago (in or around Zurich)" < 1261526490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can't match too many people now can it? < 1261526526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, alternatively you could contact the police. This sounds like a worse option to me though. < 1261526564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda hard to call long-distance, anyways... < 1261526573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not great phone service. < 1261526579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? < 1261526594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you are our only hope < 1261527365 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261528073 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261529549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you must realise that in US is not very useful < 1261529557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the US is basically 51 countries :P < 1261529568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm 50 < 1261529570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woww < 1261529572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst typo ever < 1261529573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wow < 1261529577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: More than 50. < 1261529593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, ... < 1261529606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the District of Columbia small < 1261529611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really small < 1261529625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But heavily urban. < 1261529625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, puerto rico doesn't really share the same services as the us afaik < 1261529633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: alright then < 1261529659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puerto Rico is set up similarly to the rest of the US. < 1261529683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, they pay no federal income taxes, and don't have representation in Congress. < 1261529691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, their economy is a tiny bit t3h suck. < 1261529711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't D.C. a state anyway < 1261529741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the founders wanted the capital to be independent from the states... < 1261529767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an answer :P < 1261529795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why they wanted it that way? Something like "desiring neutrality on possible inter-state conflicts"... < 1261529848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the govt can't vote themselves largesse anyway :P < 1261529919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to promote a group to be an antidote to all the annoying "Add this to get a dislike button/to see who's stalking you" groups: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=mf&gid=218522451550 < 1261529926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no. < 1261529956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If I were malicious, I could have taken over your Facebook account. Do not trust arbitrary Javascript." < 1261529956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, a morality tale < 1261529966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just keeps getting more and more Yawnsville, population: this < 1261529969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Seth (creator)" < 1261529976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you didn't like people knowing your name was Seth < 1261530081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How likely is a stalker to decide to google Sgeo along with facebook.com? < 1261530111 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo 100% < 1261530164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you must realise that in US is not very useful <-- in US, Nevada < 1261530175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also they share country code < 1261530176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean e.g. pikhq < 1261530176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in US < 1261530184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the Seagull Extinction Organization? < 1261530204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and does anyone have separate short/long distance taxes nowdays? < 1261530223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they removed the difference in Sweden around 12 years ago or so < 1261530244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it is abroad/in-country < 1261530249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The US is about the size of Europe... Nevada is a long freaking ways away. < 1261530251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the us even has different laws for the same things in its 50 countries :-P < 1261530257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well different abroad costs for different countries < 1261530262 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261530268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh < 1261530281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got more in common with the European Union than any other sort of government, honestly. < 1261530282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the us states have some baseline laws, HOPE AND CHANGE, and not all that much else with practical implications in common :P < 1261530310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about "do not commit murder"? < 1261530318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some baseline laws" < 1261530322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1261530324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261530325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's one of the ten commandments given to moses by god < 1261530327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a US law. < 1261530337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slight difference < 1261530344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe it is *also* a low in most countries < 1261530349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though phrased differently < 1261530364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not "do not commit murder", it's "if you commit murder we will make your life horrible by force" < 1261530372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do not" doesn't have many implications < 1261530374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1261530377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the law in most countries is "if you are charged with murder, we will do X to you" < 1261530380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again i guess the ten commandments come with the threat of hell anyway < 1261530385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "do not" is what the intention is < 1261530392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal < 1261530396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to speak < 1261530400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christian anarchism is a wonderful contradiction :) < 1261530404 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Operation timed out < 1261530409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1261530413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's real < 1261530418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1261530418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism < 1261530423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Tolstoy < 1261530445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The state is illegitimate! Authority is false! ...but that guy up there in the sky, he can enforce laws through coercion any time he wants. If you catch my meaning. ;)" < 1261530470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1261530487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need christian atheism < 1261530512 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261530516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions for a meaningful meaning of that? < 1261530542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :washington or franklin did that < 1261530545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually came up with one a while ago
< 1261530548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrote a book that was basically a secular bible < 1261530556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, using the teachings of jesus as a moral code, without supernatural implications < 1261530556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1261530564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jefferson. < 1261530566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1261530566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that wasn't Jefferson? < 1261530570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jefferson, then < 1261530571 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261530571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Jefferson Bible. < 1261530575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :founders, all the same really :P < 1261530579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though franklin isn't one < 1261530586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they unfortunately overlooked the fact that the bible isn't really the best moral code < 1261530635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Franklin is a founding father...
< 1261530661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1261530662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, huh, maybe it's something else he wasn't < 1261530667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfart there :/ < 1261530675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... President? < 1261530684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. right. < 1261530686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was definitely never President. < 1261530687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embarrassing, this. < 1261530688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like, not a cucumber? < 1261530699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BEN FRANKLIN: Not a cucumber. At least that's what THEY want you to believe." < 1261530708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda died before the Constitution was signed, so... < 1261530719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and not a tomato either < 1261530723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an orange < 1261530731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lemon is a bit unclear) < 1261530741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can make up lots of stuff he wasn't < 1261530741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh, franklin died before the us begun? < 1261530745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sad < 1261530803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, no. He died before the second constitution was signed. < 1261530819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1261530831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Articles of Confederation, however, were around in his lifetime. < 1261530841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§By 2009, game developers will face… < 1261530841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§CPU’s with: < 1261530841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– 20+ cores < 1261530842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– 80+ hardware threads < 1261530842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– >1 TFLOP of computing power < 1261530842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§GPU’s with general computing capabilities. < 1261530844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§Game developers will be at the forefront. < 1261530846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§If we are to program these devices < 1261530848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :productively, you are our only hope! < 1261530849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Tim Sweeney, The Next Mainstream Programming Language < 1261530852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that CPU line is a bit of an epic misprediction < 1261530854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circa 2005) < 1261530869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf rest of it is top-notch stuff though. And its mentioning of dependent types makes me really want to find a practical way to do them. < 1261530915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He served as the first ambassador to France and Sweden, as well as being the first Postmaster, for the united States of America. < 1261530974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking, the first constitution is still around -- it declared itself to be perpetual. :P < 1261530992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles
< 1261530994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone use that in court. < 1261531033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, near as I can tell, the second one merely replaces most of the functional provisions of the constitution, "to form a more perfect Union". < 1261531058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, that's not just my interpretation. < 1261531074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the opinion of the Supreme Court, in Texas vs. White (1869) < 1261531118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a working dependent type system should be purely compile-time of course... < 1261531129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think using them will give the compiler more static information and thus let it compile better < 1261531149 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261531541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm... the array type in a dependently-typed language should have the size as part of its type, shouldn't it? < 1261531593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Probably. < 1261531678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Index (Array n _) = Nat `That` (< n) < 1261531679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1261531679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Index (Array n _) = Set.filter (< n) Nat < 1261531686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the latter, the type of types would be Set < 1261531692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in mathzz < 1261531699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno which i prefer more, former seems more "familiar" < 1261531710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter seems more general < 1261531715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example usage: < 1261531790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: ary@(Array n a) -> Array m (Index ary) -> Array m a < 1261531840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. foo (makeArray [10..1,-1]) (makeArray [2,4]) → makeArray [8,6] < 1261531867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno whether that's actually any more "meaningful" than having < 1261531880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NatBelow n = Set.filter (< n) Nat < 1261531896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: Array n a -> Array m (NatBelow n) -> Array m a < 1261531922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a cool idea
< 1261531937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you read the "total fp" paper? < 1261531951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't. < 1261531994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2003, direct link: http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/total_functional_programming/jucs_10_07_0751_0768_turner.pdf < 1261532005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: basically, it's sub-TC but not totally impractical FP < 1261532007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no function can diverge < 1261532010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. partiality is a side-effect < 1261532013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1261532023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if a function types, it returns a result of that type when you call it. No exceptions < 1261532026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the idea is < 1261532036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a dependently-typed language, you are often called upon to prove that a value has a certain type < 1261532041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the TC type system < 1261532046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with IO < 1261532047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1261532058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the language had a mode in which it was a Total FP language < 1261532066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that language is what you do proofs in? < 1261532074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, your proofs must be sound < 1261532074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1261532083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no using "undefined" to get around type requirements in your proof or whatnot < 1261532087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus ensuring the safety of the language < 1261532103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, spot the bug in that paper < 1261532104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fib (n+2) = fib (n+1) + fib (n+2) < 1261532108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slight oops there :) < 1261532129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly enough that wouldn't be valid in total fp < 1261532132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since n+2 is not reduced < 1261532143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, an accidental case study right in the paper < 1261533365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1261533370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does wikipedia need 7.5 M$ < 1261533380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bandwidth doesn't cost _that_ much < 1261533384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does server space < 1261533451 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this just an intellectual exercise, ehird? < 1261533501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what part < 1261533519 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be designing a dependently-typed language < 1261533528 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it for? < 1261533542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:14] ehird: http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf rest of it is top-notch stuff though. And its mentioning of dependent types makes me really want to find a practical way to do them. < 1261533546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reducing bugs < 1261533556 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean your one specifically < 1261533557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also as intellectual masturbation, yes... like everything we do in this channel < 1261533564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: to do it in a more practical way < 1261533577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not be a proof system like coq and agda and the like < 1261533585 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like DML, ATS and She < 1261533588 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1261533591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have reasonable io working with dependent types < 1261533598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be more haskelly, haskell gets most of the other stuff right < 1261533603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to deviate when it's not required < 1261533612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to also have compiles be relatively short and the like < 1261533620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a practical dependently-typed language, then < 1261533885 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will need a large library of (beginner level) mathematics to justify termination and correctness for less basic programs, and some kind of plug-in system to hook new decision procedures into elaborating programs < 1261533902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The Wikimedia Foundation does more than host Wikipedia. < 1261533975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but 7 and a half megabucks? < 1261533995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: not concerned about termination < 1261534004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be partial all you want unless it's in the proof subsystem < 1261534011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a total subset of the language) < 1261534041 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is concerned about termination < 1261534049 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261534057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true. < 1261534064 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261534070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pulls up the Wikimedia finance report
< 1261534116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: point is, though, regular programming should just be like haskell but a little more type-strict goodness and a few more type annotations to prove to the computer that you're not being stupid < 1261534121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, as close to this goal as is possible < 1261534207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$3 million in salaries, $1 million in hosting, $0.2 million for fundraising, $0.3 for travel expensions, $0.7 for facilities... < 1261534223 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what exactly do you mean not being stupid, there is a spectrum of correctness and if you want to reach certain levels the impact on the programmer will have a stronger effect < 1261534231 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.129.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261534240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you consider an annotation? < 1261534246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : why does wikipedia need 7.5 M$ <-- secret Mind/Gene Ray control project < 1261534278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, technically it'd be a proof < 1261534285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a total subset of the language < 1261534293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: agreed < 1261534295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused now < 1261534308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you don't know what a total language is, best to just give up on the discussion now :P < 1261534316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of those salaries go to tech support. < 1261534366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I misread your message < 1261534368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1261534386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tech support. Really now. < 1261534401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wrong fucking term. < 1261534404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 M$ in hosting... seems about right < 1261534406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a long day. XD < 1261534411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.2 M$ for fundraising?! < 1261534412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sys admins. < 1261534414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now come on. < 1261534427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they do is tell the programmers: "Put a fucking big banner up and link to a video by Jimmy Wales that nobody will watch." < 1261534429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not big enough." < 1261534430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BIGGER!" < 1261534434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MAKE IT BIGGER THAN THE SUN" < 1261534466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's 5.2 M$ < 1261534473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where did the 2.3 M$ come from? < 1261534497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the whole thing. < 1261534507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some of the larger items. < 1261534579 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't answer my question though -_- < 1261534594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: which < 1261534608 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean not being stupid < 1261534631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: as in, you read a string from stdin and parse it into a Nat < 1261534642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pass it to a function expecting a (Set.filter (< somenumber) Nat) < 1261534659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point, the compiler goes "WHOA BOY! I'm gonna have to see some ID for that natural." < 1261534749 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it pure functional? < 1261534769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally. < 1261534805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically your responsibility would be providing a proof that the number you read conforms to (Set.filter (< somenumber) Nat) < 1261534814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. providing a proof that the number < somenumber < 1261534834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd do an if/else to make sure it was, and in the clause where it is ... yer done < 1261535336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: wasn't that question going to lead onto something else? :P < 1261535379 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to gauge where you are targeting but you've just said that it's possible to depend on preconditions < 1261535648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: as opposed to? < 1261535659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I'm not the most familiar with dependent types; I know the basic structure but not the variations < 1261535688 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you studied the ones I mentioned earlier < 1261535751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [01:14] ehird: http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf rest of it is top-notch stuff though. And its mentioning of dependent types makes me really want to find a practical way to do them. < 1261535757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; I will. how are they different from coq/agda style? < 1261535761 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261535767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"§ By 2009, game developers will face… < 1261535767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ CPU’s with: < 1261535767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : – 20+ cores" < 1261535775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1261535780 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're a lot closer to what you seem to be describing (which is why I mentioned the) < 1261535783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not his fault progress let him down < 1261535787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cores does the ps3 have anyway < 1261535809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "80+ hardware threads" is also off < 1261535812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 technically < 1261535812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for PS3 < 1261535822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is PPE the others are SPEs < 1261535829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, well, can't fault a man for being hopeful < 1261535833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: googlin' em up < 1261535836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'em < 1261535855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can fault Kurzweil for giving him false hope
< 1261535860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he turns out to be wrong < 1261535866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kurzweil is wrong. < 1261535880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His dates, certainly. < 1261535888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other stuff, who knows. < 1261535902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he very much chooses and advances his dates based on his expected lifespan. < 1261535923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1261535933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night AnMaster < 1261535943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nightyho. < 1261535944 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261536037 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261536151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Data Manipulation Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1261536152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data Manipulation Language (DML) is a family of computer languages used by computer programs and/or database users to insert, delete and update data in a ... < 1261536153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not that < 1261536159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't get meaningful results for She < 1261536164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found ATS though < 1261536171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you link me to appropriate documents for DML and She? < 1261536205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While ATS is primarily a language based on eager (aka. call-by-value) evaluation" laaaaame :) < 1261536206 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Dependent ML < 1261536214 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically ML with arithmetic in the type system < 1261536241 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She is the Strathclide Haskell Extention < 1261536246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just arithmetic? < 1261536257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1261536261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer arithmetic? < 1261536265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kidding) < 1261536272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so dml begat ATS < 1261536278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ah yes, _that_ she < 1261536310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: how does she work, btw? it's just a preprocessor, isn't it? < 1261536314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how it can do dependent types like that < 1261536318 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a preprocessor!!!! < 1261536325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The Strathclyde Haskell Enhancement is an experimental preprocessor for the Glasgow Haskell Compiler, concocted hastily by Conor McBride at the University of Strathclyde. Its current functionality includes]] < 1261536326 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what compilers are < 1261536330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-admittedly a preprocessor. < 1261536336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: but do you not distinguish cpp from gcc < 1261536343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I read She output < 1261536347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks very much like haskell, tbh < 1261536354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it really do the full shebang of dependent fun? < 1261536358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type-safe printf, for instance? < 1261536447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so dml is a restricted form of dependent types < 1261536462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be adequate for basic things < 1261536494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ats is impure, it seems. < 1261536692 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she doesn't support full spectrum dependent types < 1261536704 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do the printf though < 1261536718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i don't even know if full dependent types are useful < 1261536748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type-safe array indexing, absolutely, type-safe printf, almost certainly < 1261536763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going more expressive than that, though, probably gets very annoying for the programmer thrust those types upon him fast < 1261538479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: didn't you say debian is using grub 2 these days? < 1261538483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installed debian testing, 1.97 < 1261539038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux OOM killer: "it's like a big game of core wars on your computer". < 1261539373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 1.97 is Grub 2. < 1261539379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1261539382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid versioning system. < 1261539392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they never had a 1.0... < 1261539400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're using the 1.x for pre-release builds of 2. < 1261539405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL's is much more reasonable. It'd be -3.2 < 1261539414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 2.-3, in traditional major.minor form. < 1261539426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teehee. < 1261539650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically i find that too restricting in the integer form < 1261539652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do it like this < 1261539656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.-.1 < 1261539661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 2.-.09 < 1261539664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1261539857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making root accessible only by sudo for dummies < 1261539860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# passwd -d root < 1261539862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# passwd -l root < 1261539871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to just do -l, but it turns out that leaves the original password after ! < 1261539877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me uncomfortable, as it will never be used again < 1261539883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one replaces the entire field with a nice clean ! < 1261539971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, default debian includes "vi" as vim but not "vim" < 1261540475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: incidentally, here's the most retarded thing ever: Someone actually made their shell script explicitly execute with dash, not because they required some POSIX-compliant thing that bash and the like lacked, but because they were writing it in POSIX shell, and so used the only POSIX-compliant shell they knew of. < 1261540480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, not like /bin/sh is supposed to be that. < 1261540483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anything. < 1261540492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like bash suffices for... well, just about any POSIX shell use. < 1261540493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's freaking retarded. < 1261540543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default Debian kinda has a barebones install, but I didn't realise they were so barebones as to not install vim... < 1261540564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought that dash was only used as a small shell for the installer... < 1261540597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ookay, I don't think people in the sudo group are meant to receive email sent to root. < 1261540612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, probably because I did "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" apt decided to be helpful and send it to me, too. < 1261540616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They have vim. < 1261540619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just called vi. < 1261540625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1261540625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, dash is /bin/sh on Debian. < 1261540631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's dumb. < 1261540631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with that. < 1261540637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what this person did? Dummmmmmb. < 1261540640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, it's weird < 1261540642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi being vim, but not vim being vim, that is. < 1261540649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh being dash? < 1261540655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can accept that. < 1261540661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's vim-tiny, which is mostly intended for things-that-call-vi. < 1261540696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh should only be a POSIX shell -- beyond that, I don't care so long as I can get me a zsh. < 1261540702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls < 1261540702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: unrecognized prefix: hl < 1261540702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: unparsable value for LS_COLORS environment variable < 1261540711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upgrading to sid breaking your current session's ls. < 1261540713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a new one. < 1261540724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a new one. < 1261540727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least shutdown still works. < 1261540730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export LS_COLORS=""? < 1261540745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rebooted. Probably some bootup stuff changed, anyway. < 1261540749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well have it all happy-like. < 1261540891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, "apt-get autoclean" exists? < 1261540896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1261540902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, you should totally use aptitude. < 1261540908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it was a bad idea to use autoclean. < 1261540914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: apt has progressed enough that aptitude is useless < 1261540938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out if there's an apt-get no-i-dont-fucking-want-that-old-kernel
< 1261540942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that aptitude had better dependency resolution than apt, and that apt-get was considered outmoded? < 1261540971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, the thing aptitude gives you (remove packages that aren't depended on any more) is now available as "apt-get autoclean". < 1261540980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it's an extra step, but it informs you they exist whenever you do anything else. < 1261541002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so aptitude doesn't give you anything more than an ncurses interface. < 1261541011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not a great one) < 1261541071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Dnozc.gif < 1261541072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1261541169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.arrangebypenis.com/ < 1261541191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, http://i.imgur.com/Dnozc.gif the http://www.arrangebypenis.com/! < 1261541277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1261541318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias sag='sudo apt-get' < 1261541318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias sagi='sudo apt-get install' < 1261541321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sweet sanity < 1261541332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sag remove" is rather disturbing though < 1261541421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out where debian wants me to put things
< 1261541431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think export EDITOR=vim should go in .profile < 1261541438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those aliases in .bashrc < 1261541454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds right < 1261541468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's just that debian comes with tons of stuff in the files by default < 1261541483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. .profile includes .bashrc if we're running bash < 1261541491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ $/d < 1261541499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Aptitude has some other features, like when you perform an operation, it tells you how many packages have changed status < 1261541509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it has better conflict resolution < 1261541570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Mmm. < 1261541608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever installed sid by changing the mirrors in the debian-installer testing livecd :) < 1261541619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any reason it shouldn't be as reliable as upgrading from unstable < 1261541625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for value of reliability equal to not at all) < 1261541653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought that that was a supported means of using the livecd? < 1261541663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as supported as anything else in Sid. < 1261541675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The canonical answer is: You don't. You can only upgrade to it from stable or testing. You do that by editing /etc/apt/sources.list and changing your sources from stable to unstable. < 1261541675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some unofficial "sid ISO images" out there. They are dangerous, unofficial and obsolete (by definition!). Stay away from them. < 1261541676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may also be possible to install sid packages instead of testing packages if you're using a net install from the testing branch. This is not supported, but if you want to try it, you're free to do so. It's your machine, after all. Just don't cry if it breaks. < 1261541682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(answer to "How do I install sid?") < 1261541694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer being basically "It might work, and it might work. You know, just like sid LOL" < 1261541732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Should I use sid on my server? < 1261541732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you insane? No!" < 1261541732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACTUALLY INCORRECT, FAQ-WRITER < 1261541886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing crazier is using Gentoo ** on a server. < 1261541922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning KEYWORD_ACCEPT="**", meaning that Portage will feel free to install any package that is marked as being able to compile) < 1261541972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should note that that's "compile on at least one of Gentoo's architectures", not necessarily "compile on your architecture". < 1261542000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd even accept building FreeBSD libc on Windows doing that. < 1261542003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not too crazy; I'd say rumours of sid's dog-eating are greatly exaggerated < 1261542019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on; it's not like Arch will be any stabler < 1261542053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian folk are just the genteel, careful sort. < 1261542081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1261542087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is installing gdb 7
< 1261542092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if FreeBSD libc can build on any non-FreeBSD system...
< 1261542120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1261542126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net/OpenBSD. < 1261542140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Yeah, probably there. < 1261542181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x < 1261542206 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect it'll build on most systems. No clue if it will run < 1261542211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo only appears to support it on sparc-fbsd and x86-fbsd. < 1261542222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't mean much, though. < 1261542350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be nice: A sort of blend of awk and sed. < 1261542365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say a script produces foo, a number of spaces depending on the width of foo, and then a size in kilobytes, lots of times.. < 1261542367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*times. < 1261542370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you want it in megabytes. < 1261542400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl, sir < 1261542405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sewk '/\d+/ { print &/1024 }' < 1261542405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That idea, plus 20 years, is Perl. < 1261542412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but perl is shit. < 1261542420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is. < 1261542439 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl sucks." --my dad, a Java web programmer < 1261542446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java sucks. < 1261542448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you used the awk derivative proposed in the structural regular expressions paper, you could do < 1261542471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'while (<>) { s=(\d+)=$1/24=e; print; }' < 1261542476 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so does that mean Portage will actually try to install all those packages, or just that it will be relatively uninhibited? < 1261542480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk '/\d+/ { print $1/1024 } /.*/ { print $1 }' < 1261542489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1261542496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It will try to install them if you ask for them. < 1261542510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: using = as a dlimiter. < 1261542513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*delimiter < 1261542517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just awful < 1261542521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a manual while <> loop? < 1261542522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, -p < 1261542545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: feel free to use pipe or something < 1261542550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like = < 1261542551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically the "Fuck off, Gentoo, I know exactly what I want installed" mode. < 1261542569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Fine, then at least: < 1261542578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe 's=\d+=&/24=e' < 1261542583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, less HORRIBLY CONFUSINGLY, < 1261542593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe 's|\d+|&/24|e' < 1261542602 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does while (<>) mean? < 1261542619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> = read a line from input; if you don't assign it to anything (or maybe even if you do), put it in $_. < 1261542636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input is either stdin, or if you put multiple files as command line arguments, them in succession (as if catted together) < 1261542645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's false as a boolean if there's no more input < 1261542651 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "maybe" an ehird-uncertainty maybe or a the-way-Perl-actually-works maybe? < 1261542653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while (<>) continually slurps lines of input, for processing < 1261542657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: former < 1261542671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Perl is crazy, but not that crazy. < 1261542682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ is only used by default if no other variable is specified < 1261542691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, if you specify e as a regexp option, & isn't expanded. < 1261542696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you fuck-shit retarded, Perl. Why. < 1261542697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 < 1261542699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's merely crazy enough to make parsing equivalent to solving the halting problem. :P < 1261542704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, that's not what & is < 1261542712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& should work to avoid needless parenthesising of the whole expression < 1261542713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is &? < 1261542717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1261542718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is what $0 would be\ < 1261542720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ then < 1261542721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1261542724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $0 wasn't taken < 1261542736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& might be used in the expression < 1261542741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1261542752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so escape it, the regex terminator mighht be too < 1261542754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1261542759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, $& works < 1261542764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this works, somehow it fucks up the alignm— wait a second, those results are wrong < 1261542782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1261542783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1261542786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ is wrong, bitch :P < 1261542828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1261542833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\d was replacing the numbers in the package names < 1261542834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1261542861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1261542864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since some of them are < 1261542868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10048 < 1261542869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1261542871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9364 < 1261542876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the replacement messes it up < 1261542901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl should have a thing you can enable so that it analyses how the data is aligned, and keeps that alignment. < 1261542902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1261542970 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1261542995 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It often seems like other languages use syntactic sugar where Haskell would use a user-definable function. < 1261543004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes < 1261543009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is all syntactic sugar < 1261543053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Lisp has macro thingies. I don't know if I want to wrap my entire program inside one function that changes the program's semantics perhaps significantly. < 1261543061 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, Haskell has lots of syntactic sugar. < 1261543076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots? < 1261543099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I count only a few bits. < 1261543100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to wrap your entire program, macros can be used in subexpressions you know :P < 1261543102 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has too many pieces of syntactic sugar to count on one hand. < 1261543112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, C++ is C with syntactic sugar. *ducks* < 1261543113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has... < 1261543115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION inhales.
< 1261543122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ahl6z/i_dare_you_to_set_this_as_your_desktop_background/c0hm413?context=4 < 1261543133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, now I want a rotatable monitor < 1261543183 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newtype declarations, guards, do notation, pattern guards, case statements, list notation, list builder notation... < 1261543194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newtype declarations aren't sugar. < 1261543198 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're right. < 1261543201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case statements aren't sugar. < 1261543211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They are. < 1261543216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, either case or pattern matching is sugar. < 1261543221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of irrelevant which one. < 1261543225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you put it as your desktop background and then start pink floyd's "the wall" at the same time as the lion roars on the Wizard of Oz... < 1261543225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flying monkeys come out of YOUR BUTT" < 1261543226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought that the other pattern matching got desugared to case? < 1261543230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If case statements aren't sugar, then ordinary pattern matching is sugar. < 1261543231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dunno. < 1261543231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Pattern matching < 1261543235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's equivalent, either way. < 1261543236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moot point, though. < 1261543241 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantically, it doesn't... what they said. < 1261543280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You managed to name most of the syntactic sugar. < 1261543305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infix functions and list comprehensions are the other two that I can think of. < 1261543321 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have some exotic things like mdo notation, do guards, arrow do notation. < 1261543337 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :List comprehensions are what I meant by list builder notation. < 1261543341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo notation, do guards, and arrow do notation are GHC extensions. < 1261543353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Exotic. < 1261543408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also omitted the (soon-to-be-gone) n+k matches. < 1261543444 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they might have already been gone. < 1261543501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are in Haskell 2010. Thank god. < 1261543528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Haskell 2010 has been ratified. < 1261543568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it? < 1261543569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1261543648 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who ratified it? < 1261543730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commitee < 1261543762 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which committee? < 1261543769 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have set that image as my desktop background. < 1261543774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell Commitee. < 1261543784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pantomime moment there. < 1261543797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who ratified it?" "The committee" "Which committee?" "The Haskell Committee." < 1261543819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1261543848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Haskell Committee? < 1261543858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Haskell Committee! < 1261543881 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this Haskell Committee have a website? < 1261543890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.haskell.org < 1261543897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which www.haskell.org? < 1261543923 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The www.haskell.org endorsed by haskell.org's nameserver! < 1261543973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nameserver? < 1261543976 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which haskell.org? The haskell.org endorsed by .org's nameserver! Which .org? The one operated by Afilias Limited! Which Afilias Limited? I dunno, is there more than one? < 1261543993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Which .org? The .org endorsed by .'s nameserver! < 1261543993 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes digging.
< 1261544013 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But . has lots of nameservers, each operated by a different company. < 1261544060 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's see. < 1261544074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 11 root nameservers iirc? < 1261544080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1261544083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a through m. < 1261544092 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too many letters. < 1261544099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under root-servers.net < 1261544113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 13 < 1261544119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I redefine arithmetic to make you wrong. < 1261544121 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can count!
< 1261544142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWEET BABIES OF LUXURY < 1261544142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ(12) = 11, dammit! < 1261544150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck 12 equals 11. < 1261544160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KILLED SOMEONE WHILE PERFORMING ORAL SEX UPON THEM?! < 1261544172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.haskell.org is the same thing as bugs.haskell.org, according to serv1.net.yale.edu. serv1.net.yale.edu is an authoritative nameserver for haskell.org, according to A2.ORG.AFILIAS-NST.INFO. A2.ORG.AFILIAS-NST.INFO is an authoritative nameserver for .org, according to G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET is an authoritative nameserver for ., according to 209.20.72.4. < 1261544177 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 209.20.72.4 is not an authoritative nameserver. < 1261544189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, I am declaring that out of ever 12 instances of oral sex, 11 will survive. < 1261544205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORAL SEX: The hidden killer... IN YOUR PANTS < 1261544216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOX NEWS SPECIAL REPORT < 1261544255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Out of band knowledge confirms that g.root-servers.net is an authoritative nameserver for . (according to ICANN) < 1261544266 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in order to figure out what www.haskell.org is, one must first know what serv1.net.yale.edu and A2.ORG.AFILIAS-NST.INFO are. < 1261544269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish with Debian-Installer you could say "regular install but prompt me for this extra step" < 1261544275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to trundling through the boring expert install < 1261544299 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to figure out what serv1.net.yale.edu is, one must first know what C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET is. < 1261544313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to figure out what any domain is, one must first know what any of [A-M].ROOT-SERVERS.NET are. < 1261544315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1261544334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The query goes from . down. < 1261544335 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261544336 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to figure out what C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET is, one must first know what C.GTLD-SERV--wait, hang on. < 1261544351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but . is defined by the root serverrs. < 1261544353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*servers < 1261544354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay! Wait! Hang on! < 1261544366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an IPP for any of [A-M].ROOT-SERVERS.NET, you're sorted. < 1261544368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IP < 1261544377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can look at the logs < 1261544413 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET is inaccessible without prior knowledge of C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET < 1261544419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. The root servers are kinda stuck into BIND. < 1261544423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Wrong. < 1261544450 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you figure out what it is, then? It's the nameserver for .net. < 1261544460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool that you only need to know one single IP to be able to browse all the web you want. < 1261544474 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that /[A-M].ROOT-SERVERS.NET/ matches only one string. < 1261544497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be locked in a room with only a Forth console plugged into an internet connection, and as long as you can remember one single IP, you can build yourself a full web browser. < 1261544508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And browse the interrwebnets. < 1261544512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here's how it works: you query [a-m].root-servers.net what net is. You query net what gtld-servers.net is. You query gtld-servers.net what c.gtld-servers.net is. < 1261544537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It'll be difficult, but yes. < 1261544543 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: net isn't a server; you can't query it. < 1261544551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes it is. < 1261544559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. When Debian "installs the base system", from CD instead of the network, is any of that left at the end of the installation? < 1261544565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it all upgraded from the repos. < 1261544575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DNS is a pretty easy protocol, isn't it? < 1261544583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah. < 1261544588 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping tells me that net is an unknown host. dig tells me that net has no A record. < 1261544593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP/IP would fuck you up, but let's say TCP/IP was on a piece of paper next to you. < 1261544619 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't DNS operate greatly over UDP? < 1261544622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fine. You query [a-m].root-servers.net what gtld-servers.net is. You query gtld-servers.net what c.gtld-servers.net is. < 1261544624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it would be simpler to make a client to telnet and make like a raw dumb terminal, or to make a simple gopher client, and so on. < 1261544639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDP or TCP; both are valid. < 1261544640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it wouldn't be hard from just an internet link, the TCP/UDP/IP specs, one single IP, and knowledge of how to do basic DNS and HTTP requests to load google.com. < 1261544656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little string manipulation later, voila, dumb-ass web browser. < 1261544663 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you could load google.com easily like that < 1261544666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDP is generally used for smaller queries, but supporting it isn't mandatory from a client. < 1261544682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better path may be to connect to IRC and ask for help because dammit they aren't giving me food and I'm not sure where I am and I don't know if they'll let me out and I don't know who they are help helph elp < 1261544686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would need HTML and various image file formats, JavaScript, etc, to make the full use. < 1261544697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. < 1261544698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: HTML and JavaScript are quite self-describing. < 1261544703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can browse the web with freaking nc. < 1261544714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda annoying, but you can do it just fine. < 1261544716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do a basic HTTP request, you're savvy enough to work out how HTML, CSS and JS work through observation and testing. < 1261544718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yes you certainly can, but it isn't very good < 1261544729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not asking for good. < 1261544733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're asking for functional. < 1261544744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success; the root nameservers tell you who the gtld-servers.net people are. < 1261544755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not too difficult to write a proper HTML, with most things, and a bit harder for JavaScript, although, you would still need it if you wanted it complete < 1261544767 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should have realized that before. The root zone file is loaded with hints. < 1261544769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, just netcat is good enough to connect < 1261544823 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if it mentions a domain name, it gives you both an A record and an NS record for it. < 1261544889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's a good point. Why does Debian netinstall first install from the CD? < 1261544891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is poopy-stupid. < 1261544912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;; AUTHORITY SECTION: < 1261544912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. 10800 IN SOA a.root-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2009122201 1800 900 604800 86400 < 1261544920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if a is somehow more authoritative than the others, or whether someone was just lazy. < 1261544923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from dig .) < 1261544980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dig net." isn't very helpful. < 1261544987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which system is best for text-adventure games, is it Glulx, or TADS, or Z-machine < 1261545020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, because there's no server there. < 1261545032 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig looks for A and maybe AAAA records for whatever you give it. < 1261545034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't any at ., either. < 1261545043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1261545051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the special magic root server records. < 1261545065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Inform :P < 1261545068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cute if . were a domain name of an actual server. < 1261545076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx is just a vm < 1261545082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is z-machine < 1261545083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tads isn't < 1261545086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a full system < 1261545087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inform 6 or 7? And it compiles to Glulx and Z-machine, which of those is better < 1261545099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx is "cooler" but Z-machine is much more commonly implemented < 1261545103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glulx never took off afaik < 1261545104 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think that in theory, all the root nameservers are mirrors of a.root-servers.net. < 1261545105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so z-machine < 1261545115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inform 7 if you can stomach the syntax, it's where most the work goes today < 1261545116 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261545121 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there has to be only one primary authoritative nameserver. < 1261545160 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1261545160 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNS's email address notation is so cute, you know. < 1261545185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost makes you want email addresses to actually be domain names. < 1261545231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make my own text-adventure game system, too, it is called TAVSYS, see the example http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/tavsys_example_1.png < 1261545253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not surprised. < 1261545291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised zzo38 doesn't make his own computers. < 1261545296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? < 1261545308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And core memory. On a loom. Of his own design. < 1261545317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1261545318 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make my own computers. Can I rent a microchip fabrication plant? < 1261545332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would make my own computers, one day. But not yet, because I need the equipment and stuff I would get from help from someone I know < 1261545336 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in send them a design and get back a microchip. < 1261545357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'm surprised zzo38 doesn't make his own *physics*. < 1261545357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have the similar question(s) like you, too < 1261545378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physics??? Really? < 1261545387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe he does, it's just he only communicates through the net so no one notices it's different < 1261545398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, ehird: < 1261545414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't only communicate through the net < 1261545429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CANNOT PROVE IT < 1261545432 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Neither do I! < 1261545432 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I! < 1261545433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making my own computers is something I plan to do soon < 1261545452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, almost soon < 1261545479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts again to install sid via the testing cd
< 1261545509 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "G" in the corner is short for "Glk" < 1261545510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is not possible to install sid from a netinst or full CD. Use the netboot installation method, a businesscard CD image, or floppy images (with the net-driver floppies)." < 1261545515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Debian-Installer FAQ! < 1261545580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch04s05.html.en < 1261545584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ookay... noot netboot then... < 1261545587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Businesscard image it is. < 1261545697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say Inform 7 with English sentences make it easier, but I think it actually makes it more confusing, for various reasons, including that you might think it implies something, even though it doesn't imply that < 1261545886 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261545896 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're not the Loper OS guy, are you? < 1261545932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the Loper OS guy is. < 1261545946 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy who writes here: http://www.loper-os.org/ < 1261545950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261545961 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He rants and says very interesting things. < 1261545983 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of like Eliezer Yudkowsky, who fears and writes very interesting things. < 1261545993 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261546201 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261546575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is quite a bit saner than the Loper OS guy. < 1261546581 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vm.overcommit_memory = 2 < 1261546581 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vm.overcommit_ratio = 100 < 1261546581 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to call these two lines the "Not a Turing Machine" Maneuver. < 1261546585 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, I *like* that guy. < 1261546606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: He's enjoyable, just somewhat off his rocker. < 1261546618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The same is true of most notable mathematicians. :P < 1261546623 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be like that. < 1261546632 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don'tt think I've read anything to suggest he's particularly crazy. < 1261546642 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very strong unorthodox opinions, yes... < 1261546642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be thinking of someone else. < 1261546650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1261546653 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think his ambitions are very crazy, just utopian. < 1261546655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was thinking of Losethos. < 1261546656 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did you mean the Losethos guy? < 1261546668 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, I absolutely challenge the "somewhat" part. < 1261546670 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the Losethos guy is a bit crazy. < 1261546676 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy never had a rocker, and continually beats up the rockers of everyone else. < 1261546698 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh. "Bill Gates may be richer than Captain Kirk, / but the Windows OS blows! / And sucks! / At the same time!" < 1261546698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, loper-os is just unorthodox. < 1261546708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If people think everyone has premarital sex or everyone does drugs, they have no will power to resist. We're gonna have lots of people deciding they're gay. < 1261546708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like gays. I don't want them openly acting gay. It's yucky. < 1261546708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God says... doubted fitter stipend containest instituted Hierius < 1261546708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're gonna be forced to hire them." < 1261546708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's perfectly fine by me. < 1261546709 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Losethos, in a post to reddit. Not a comment, a post. Title: "Gay Marriage". < 1261546760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God's a child molester. < 1261546760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/ezekiel/ezekiel16.htm < 1261546760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason why I don't think Losethos is *completely* freaking crazy is because he appears capable of programming. < 1261546760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big thoughts forced into puny heads." < 1261546766 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... if he's God-obsessed... < 1261546770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I assume requires some hold on reality. < 1261546772 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he thinks God is a child molester... < 1261546779 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps this guy is not as harmless as you might think P < 1261546781 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1261546781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as tenous as it may be) < 1261546785 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when does ability to program tell you anything about a persons sanity/intelligence? < 1261546787 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tenuous < 1261546792 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: intelligence it does < 1261546796 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not sanity < 1261546797 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1261546803 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're completely dissociated from reality you couldn't program < 1261546805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I'm assuming it demands at least a *modicum* of sanity. < 1261546814 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't beleive either of that < 1261546831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think losethos is as insane as you can be and still program decently. < 1261546843 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: unless you're going to offer arguments, so be it. < 1261546846 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be possible to teach a dog programming, if you had an eternally young dog. < 1261546851 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lots of time. < 1261546859 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think someone with IQ 1 could program? < 1261546866 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know IQ isn't a measurement of intelligence really < 1261546876 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyone who scores 1 is either doing it intentionally or is really fucking retarded < 1261546886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: hey, there's more to discussing than providing argument. < 1261546887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just speaks the wrong language < 1261546900 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: yes, but it's a good step up from assertion < 1261546909 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're mostly symbol-based, you know < 1261546929 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern ones are < 1261546965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reputable one is. < 1261546976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invokes the True Scotsman fallacy for the win
< 1261546982 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No IQ test is reputable. < 1261547005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ehird snatches victory out of pikhq's hands. < 1261547017 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to convince you of something < 1261547035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random assertions, then? *shrug* < 1261547045 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"since when does ability to program tell you anything about a persons sanity/intelligence?" is usually interpreted as the start of some kind of back and forth. < 1261547063 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: si hay dos latas, una que contiene cinco galones de agua y una que contiene tres, ¿cómo se mide cuatro galones de agua? < 1261547075 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Si. Si. Si. Uh... si. < 1261547075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261547075 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1261547092 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, my Spanish is not getting rusty; it's never been better.) < 1261547136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Nani? Watasi ha anata no hen na getsugo wo wakaranai, yo. < 1261547146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which verse of Ezekiel 16 do you mean? < 1261547146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Fill the five-gallon container, pour three gallons into the three-gallon container, dump the three out, pour the remaining two into the three-gallon container, fill the five-gallon again, pour the last gallon into the three and voila! you have four < 1261547152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't know Spanish < 1261547153 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: by "ha", do you mean "wa"? < 1261547173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kanji or GTFO. < 1261547180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, I was doing a very very literal transcription of kana. < 1261547180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have an IME. < 1261547190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was just quoting Losethos. < 1261547195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows what he was thinking in his little mind. < 1261547200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: COPY AND PASTE, FUCKER < 1261547200 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use kanji for every word, including particles. < 1261547211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew other languages. < 1261547213 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have an IME, and I don't even know Japanese. < 1261547214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, but which verse number? < 1261547221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not about to write kanbun for your sick and twisted pleasure. :P < 1261547224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know. He did not specify, and I am not telepathic. < 1261547234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1261547244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kanbun being Classical Chinese with annotations on how to read it as Japanese) < 1261547249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing "watasi" is a pronoun. "Anata" looks familiar. What do those two mean? < 1261547269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read/write kana, too, and some words, and some kanji, but I don't have any IME software on my computer < 1261547278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watasi = I, "anata" = you. < 1261547287 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was easy. < 1261547297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The translation is: I don't speak your strange moon-language. < 1261547321 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION arranges that sentence into a Japanese-ish order.
< 1261547350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ha you no strange na moon-language wo understand-not < 1261547357 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I your strange moon language not speak. < 1261547381 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, it's the order that I guessed, except that the not is a suffix. < 1261547403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, Japanese is postfix? < 1261547405 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the "na"? < 1261547409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mental stacks. Wonderful. < 1261547421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Somewhat, yes. < 1261547434 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Japanese extremely postfix? < 1261547448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Makes the "hen" into an adjective. < 1261547456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is postfix in some ways, like, you put verb at the end, for one thing < 1261547481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's postfix in some ways, like, it's postfix." < 1261547489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1261547490 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1261547504 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to be concious to write programs < 1261547528 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says that Japanese is quite strictly left-branching: modifiers tend to precede heads. < 1261547530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ha" = subject, "no" = possessive, "na" = adjective, "wo" = object... < 1261547563 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of things are "hen" and "getsugo"? < 1261547580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can search on WWWJDIC. < 1261547589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hen" is an adjective of Chinese origin, and "getsugo" is a noun. < 1261547597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need Japanese fonts on your computer to use WWWJDIC < 1261547606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composed of "moon" (getsu) and "go" (language) < 1261547609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IME is not required < 1261547647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that Go, the board game, is not named that because that word means "language". < 1261547649 0 :Oranjer!n=HP_Admin@adsl-71-18-51.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261547655 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1261547662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/soap/simple < 1261547662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entertaining! < 1261547668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can "hen" be used without that "na" after it? < 1261547690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:51] soupdragon: you don't even need to be concious to write programs < 1261547691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be conscious to write programs as anything but a spontaneous action < 1261547704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The word for go in Japanese is "igo". < 1261547711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not as an adjective. < 1261547712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you could argue that any group of particles in the universe could suddenly spontaneously turn into a program < 1261547721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be writing a prograagm < 1261547732 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else can it be used? < 1261547733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, wossname, ideotic < 1261547736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it can be combined with other words, though. See the adjective "hentai") < 1261547760 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1261547766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bring the word "hentai" into a discussion about Japanese. That's utterly surprising and unexpected. < 1261547774 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hentai is an adjective? < 1261547776 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1261547782 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in Japanese, I guess. < 1261547788 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomes < 1261547804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks it up on Wikipedia. Yes.
< 1261547820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Graphic hentai representation." —a caption < 1261547826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's one way of wording it, Wikipedia. < 1261547840 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does not the act of writing require a writer? and does not spontaneous creation require the lack of a creator? < 1261547855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not your mother require the lack of a creator? < 1261547865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She is so hideous, after all. < 1261547865 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg your pardon < 1261547877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find a lot of Japanese words in WWWJDIC. But, some are still missing. But you can search both kana and kanji, and it will tell you the kana for every word, and examples of Japanese writings, too. And also stroke-orders < 1261547887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doest thou not know of ehird's particular desire for thy mother? < 1261547899 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that the problem seems to reside completely in soupdragon's use of the word "write" < 1261547903 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really what I meant.. < 1261547912 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, not understanding the context, I have no fucking clue < 1261547913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1261547925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What Would Wally Jones Dickinson Ian Conjure? < 1261547963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey hey, sid installed from scratch. < 1261547967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No filthy testing influence here, nosiree. < 1261547992 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay? < 1261548034 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World-Wide War One Dictionary. < 1261548038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with sudo set up by default, too. Who says Debian don't do none of that thingymagic. < 1261548118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it adds your username, instead of adding you to the sudo group. < 1261548291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261548296 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261548324 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest90348 < 1261548334 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1261548613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know the answer do your question, but that isn't what WWWJDIC is supposed to be short for. < 1261548626 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it short for < 1261548644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World Wide Web Japan Dictionary < 1261548652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Japan/Japanese/ < 1261548693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1261548715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QUIT :" < 1261548727 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhhh < 1261548737 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the IC mean < 1261548760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the IC in DICtionary. < 1261548961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION believes that "xorg" is the package to install for x magic on debian
< 1261548970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to any more complicated, xorg-involving name. < 1261549278 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *" < 1261549352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_More*_With_Footnotes <- must find < 1261549368 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261549420 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome, coppro < 1261549473 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261549602 0 :Guest90348!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1261549666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261550488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes xdm actually look acceptable
< 1261550711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird < 1261550745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/CKKDi.png ;; ok, admittedly, the actual login window thingy could do with a slightly lighter background < 1261550748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sure as hell beats http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Xdm_Screenshot.png < 1261551245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1261551250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse produces keyboard events in debian < 1261551261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1261551273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly unpredictably < 1261551276 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-7-136.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261551286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, holding down the middle button and dragging seems to select everything aand middle-click-paste it forever < 1261551289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and < 1261551326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to see if debian would like it better as a usb device
< 1261551423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to. < 1261551827 0 :mental_!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261552164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, and I am left again with the task of figuring out what file debian wants me to put x resources in < 1261552175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, no < 1261552237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try xev < 1261552243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1261552250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what your mouse is doing < 1261552261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1261552262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed that < 1261552270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like playing with xev :D < 1261552648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what's the proper way to say yes in xresources files < 1261552650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? true? < 1261552744 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261552884 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-162-149-220.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261553140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if there's xfontsel for xft? < 1261553639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1261553657 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261554732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find out where the hell the x11 cursor themes are
< 1261554742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i enter my wm i get an ugly red cursor theme... < 1261555199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1261555200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1261555593 0 :mental_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1261555778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to write a CSS renderer
< 1261555869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a whole layout engine for that < 1261555873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm rather < 1261555875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whole rendering engine < 1261555880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really write just a css renderer... < 1261555882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1261555885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the box model is hell < 1261555887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes and no < 1261555892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a rendering engine for CSS < 1261555905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's integrally tied to the layout engine < 1261555908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't need to implement any markup or anything < 1261555912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really has to be part of it tbh < 1261555923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writing a layout engine is a super-massive-gigantic task < 1261555960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: < 1261555974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#000 on #BBB terminal, dejavu sans mono 10pt < 1261555978 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261555983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with #888 desktop background < 1261555985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soothing! < 1261555995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and like 5px #000 window borders from lwm...) < 1261556012 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer 8pt < 1261556016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll go data-from-some-source + CSS -> render < 1261556059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8pt is not soothing unless you have a low dpi screen with the dpi set to 96 or something that isn't really the dpi < 1261556081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure about the dpi < 1261556087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#000 on #BBB is quite close to a book in non-bright lighting conditions < 1261556089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice < 1261556101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, css operates on html/xml < 1261556112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which both parse to basically the same thing (xml's parse tree being a subset) < 1261556122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1261556126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS operates on data of any form < 1261556127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1261556129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: false < 1261556141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's often used on HTML/XML, but the spec need not be specific to them < 1261556152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document specifies level 1 of the Cascading Style Sheet mechanism (CSS1). CSS1 is a simple style sheet mechanism that allows authors and readers to attach style (e.g. fonts, colors and spacing) to HTML documents < 1261556168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This specification defines Cascading Style Sheets, level 2 revision 1 (CSS 2.1). CSS 2.1 is a style sheet language that allows authors and users to attach style (e.g., fonts and spacing) to structured documents (e.g., HTML documents and XML applications). By separating the presentation style of documents from the content of documents, CSS 2.1 simplifies Web authoring and site maintenance. < 1261556175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so css level 1 is html only < 1261556179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :css 2 may say structured documents < 1261556185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the syntax used, really, won't lend itself to anythhing else < 1261556192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it totally is html/xml specific < 1261556196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitch :P < 1261556208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as it has the same semantics i guess < 1261556209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1261556229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you're calling it a "CSS renderer" that's a really bad name, as it undermines the immense difficulty of a layout engine :P < 1261556259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's necessarily html/xml-specific. It could be used for JSON, for all CSS cares < 1261556278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, there would be a limited subset of usable features, simply because JSON is less powerful) < 1261556285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1261556300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd highly recommend structuring it as XMLDoc → Rendered, though < 1261556304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because everything else reduces to that < 1261556308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the immense complexity of xml < 1261556311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1261556323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because xml gives you xhtml, which is very common in practice and so probably should be supported < 1261556340 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261556344 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261556378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input will be through an API, I'm thinking < 1261556384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so writing an XML plugin could be done < 1261556388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is not necessary < 1261556485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needless complexity if xml is a subset of all the others < 1261556496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you gave the base stuff simple enough names and made the rest optional you wouldn't even have to call it XML < 1261556500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just Doc < 1261556500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less complex < 1261556507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I don't need to write or use an XML parser < 1261556514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't here either < 1261556527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying to use one data structure, and have it be XML's structure < 1261556540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "plugins" simply become render(parseXML(...)) < 1261556542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data structure will be binary, though, not text < 1261556546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or render(parseJSON(...)) all returning a Doc < 1261556548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it'll be a struct < 1261556556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you unable to comprehend that XML has an internal structure? < 1261556560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does < 1261556567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CSS does require a hierarchical structure < 1261556577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like it will be all that dissimilar from XML < 1261556581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag = namespace+attributes[name→str]+children[tag]+... < 1261556590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1261556592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, for e.g. json, you'd just set tag.name and tag.children < 1261556600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, "tag" there is xml < 1261556609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"element" is CSS < 1261556611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see where plugins come into it < 1261556621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I simply meant it would not be standalone < 1261556625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has C++ addled your mind so much that you can't comprehend the idea of a function returning a Doc or whatever? < 1261556635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing! < 1261556710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will render to an OpenGL surface < 1261556732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: seriously? rendering engine is separate from the actual display < 1261556744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, the layout constantly drastically changes in quite a lot of renderings < 1261556753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you're loading the content (not the css) incrementally < 1261556767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What do you recommend I choose as the target data then? < 1261556783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an OpenGL surface seems like the LCD < 1261556785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's up to you, innit :P I'm no expert in writing t hem, I just know a little about how they work < 1261556801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, let's put it this way < 1261556803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resize a browser window < 1261556807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it totally re-renders the page? < 1261556817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my functional brain tells me to make it based on fluid constraints < 1261556820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like TeX < 1261556826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elements pushing away from other elements, etc < 1261556832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but what's that got to do with OpenGL? < 1261556842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't "render to an opengl surface" < 1261556847 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP yeeeaaaahhh < 1261556848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you render to an abstract data structure, then draw that < 1261556864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw opengl has problems with the idea of a "pixel" < 1261556867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect fuzziness < 1261556873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd suggest sdl < 1261556887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1261556891 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need to look into this I guess < 1261556903 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would anyways, but now I need to look into it more!) < 1261556913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you come out of this anything other than gibbering I will be astounded. < 1261556918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1261556957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know the proper way to change x11 resolution in this hal day and age < 1261556968 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrandr < 1261556994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's on the fly < 1261557002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean changing the initial resolution permanently < 1261557070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xorg.conf, then < 1261557136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's so... obsolete... < 1261557159 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1261557176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old != obsolete < 1261557229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he can get away with just
< 1261557253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section "Screen" < 1261557253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SubSection "Display" < 1261557253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Modes "1360x768" < 1261557253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EndSubSection < 1261557256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EndSection < 1261557267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get it to generate the current config for you < 1261557268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget how < 1261557272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that stops the hal stuff < 1261557416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that just made x give up < 1261557462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1261557534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can also put xrandr in your x startup script < 1261557572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, since i rebooted virtualbox is now just letting me resize the vm to my preferred window size < 1261557577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adjusting the resolution appropriately < 1261557578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet. < 1261557588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you installed the extensions < 1261557601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll work < 1261557604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the OSE ones from debian's repository. works with the proprietary version :P < 1261557630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what browser to stick on this thing
< 1261557673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox is shitty, midori has weird interface quirks, arora had some annoying glitch last time I used it < 1261557717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias sag='sudo apt-get' < 1261557717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias sagi='sudo apt-get install' < 1261557717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias acs='apt-cache search' < 1261557718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ lifesavers < 1261557753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konqueror :P < 1261557759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why x11 mouse acceleration sucks so much
< 1261557772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: has konqueror even switched over to webkit yet < 1261557780 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1261557781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it still KH"It is 2003"TML < 1261557784 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it in ages < 1261557790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I kinda dislike the whole kitchen-sink thing :P < 1261557795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mass of KDE dependencies thing < 1261557798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1261557804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree in principle but not in practice < 1261557821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never ever thought "I wish I could just type in a file URL now and start browsing my files" < 1261557831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in Windows where the shell doesn't exist < 1261557835 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't count < 1261557853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(practice being the fact that I use KDE, so a mass of KDE dependencies is largely a non-event) < 1261557897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs arora
< 1261557963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, andrew cooke packed even more text into his site: http://www.acooke.org/ < 1261557969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and dropped the lowercase fun! < 1261557985 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-56-31.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1261557990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels an urge to link the CSS Zen Garden
< 1261558083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :css zen garden was fun. < 1261558090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, arora still has the glitch < 1261558093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the maddening begins now < 1261558107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sagi feh" < 1261558115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realised i'm using klingonux < 1261558118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klingux < 1261558188 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness? < 1261558212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pooper. < 1261558217 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADNESS?? < 1261558222 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261558239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what glitch? < 1261558250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/NLThT.png bask in the soothing colours and fonts < 1261558262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: arora semi-randomly either underlines or non-underlines underlined links < 1261558272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://createyourproglang.com/ roffffffffl < 1261558274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the whole thing feel unstable < 1261558278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is uberugly < 1261558293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is there a bug filed? < 1261558324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: rather lame marketinig site, marc-andré cournoyer's little language implementations are cool thouough < 1261558326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1261558336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they're all llvm and stuff, so probably the book has that too < 1261558342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i don't know whether there's a bug filed < 1261558348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it was linked from that acooke guy < 1261558351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most people can't reproduce it < 1261558358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew cooke is the one who proved malbolge TC < 1261558361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm no < 1261558365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the one who did hello world in it < 1261558369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed up my momentous tasks there < 1261558373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1261558373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/NLThT.png < 1261558374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASK < 1261558375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you scroll down, it says it does LLVM < 1261558381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1261558416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just funny because it looks like Plain English in terms of quality, but clearly the guy actually knows what he's talking about < 1261558439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i think it's aimed at the ruby post-ironic hipstercore market < 1261558622 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261558717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool how lwm's resize widgets show the size in pixels for everything but terminal windows, where it shows lines/cols < 1261558739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure KDE can do the same < 1261558749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still awesome < 1261558752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it turned off for normal window resizes < 1261558754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to lok
< 1261558756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*look < 1261558787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lwm seems to be a pretty rad window manager < 1261558817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimalist, not-entirely-wacky mouse controls, window hiding (goes to a right-click menu on the root window), and easy program triggering (buttons 1 and 2 on the root window; just 2 by default) < 1261558838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, there doesn't appear to be a plugin for that. I thought there was. < 1261558849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a neat effect that highlights areas of the screen that get rerendered < 1261558869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see how frequently your application is painting individual areas < 1261558901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i think vbox is telling vm my screen dpi < 1261558905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus weirding everything up < 1261558911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even manages to refrain from counting the mouse movements < 1261558916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should leave it like this; it's trippy < 1261558970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear that I'm using xdm and it's not breaking my eyes? pretty astonishing news imo < 1261558973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know it was possibble < 1261558995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dm doesn't do very much, really < 1261559027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me < 1261559044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Xdm_Screenshot.png < 1261559048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what xdm normally looks like < 1261559115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/CKKDi.png this, but with a lighter background (#AAA) on the actual login window, is what i'm using < 1261559124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is obvious. Log in and use startx < 1261559164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DM's are overrated! < 1261559168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though they are nice < 1261559182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want x to start auto after login, no real easy way to do that withotu a dm < 1261559188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well change the display mode while we're at it < 1261559195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*withouut < 1261559197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*without < 1261559207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it in your .bashrc? < 1261559215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruin all shells? < 1261559226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers trying chromium
< 1261559230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like my window decorations... < 1261559271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just make all shells start an X server when you log in! < 1261559290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaks console < 1261559295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, if you silence the command and run it in the background, it will work fine) < 1261559323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startx will fail because :0.0 is already in use, and you're happy < 1261559330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disown it, even < 1261559368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think an ubuntu repo for chromium will wowrk? < 1261559373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i'll install a deb first < 1261559375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to see if i want it < 1261559402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ba-ba-ba-bum bum ba-ba-bum < 1261559419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to sleep soon < 1261559436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1261559445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when'd you sleep < 1261559470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly this time last night < 1261559476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping != disconnecting < 1261559489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, me being disconnected is usually a good indication I'm not sleeping < 1261559527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 9am here for me, so that's connfusing < 1261559535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is i didn't sleep the whole night < 1261559543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i woke up at like 4pm the day before < 1261559546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problematic for brain. < 1261559587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2am < 1261560141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh. Chrome would be perfect for this if I could make it use the native GTK theme, except for the main background. < 1261560370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember the name of that simple program that did alt+f2 launching
< 1261560452 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261560457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to sleep, expecting Mars to wake him up... ba-ba-ba-bum bum ba-ba-bum
< 1261560478 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261560485 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-250.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261560489 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1261560853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1261561254 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261562455 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261562459 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1261563404 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@client-81-109-247-252.winn.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261564374 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261564711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, some spammer got around my mental spam filters by writing in first person plural < 1261564720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I read a whole half a sentence before I realised it was spam < 1261566574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261566959 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261567754 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1261568463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1261568488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, merry xmas btw I guess (since I will be away tomorrow) < 1261568524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you will probably be away the day after that?) < 1261568542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1261568552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'll more likely be here to be with the family than I would be otherwise, I think < 1261568562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? < 1261568562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll all be here I suspect, due to not being able to fit everyone anywhere else < 1261568575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what day is Christmas in your country? < 1261568580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 25th here in the UK < 1261568584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently 24th in Germany < 1261568585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, presents are on the 24th < 1261568592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261568594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it being the Christmas eve < 1261568604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, they're technically the 26th but everyone but very religious people ignores that < 1261568607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving the presents on the Christmas day? What a strange idea < 1261568614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives on the 25th instead < 1261568630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the 25th being the Christmas day or Christmas eve? < 1261568637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25th is christmas day < 1261568646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas eve is when half of people traditionally /buy/ the presents < 1261568650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to having left it until the last minute < 1261568656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shops stay open late and triple their prices < 1261568662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is a simple explanation for it. Work hours rules for Father Christmas :P < 1261568667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he has to spread it out < 1261568684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course in Russia he uses a subcontractor iirc < 1261568694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :St. Nicolaus or something iirc? < 1261568710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's secretly helped by all the dads in the country < 1261568720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how he manages to get into houses, they unlock the door for him < 1261568731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or deliver the presents themselves if he can't route everywhere in time < 1261568739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the travelling salesman problem hasn't been solved efficently yet... < 1261568743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, this is related to population growing exponentially, while his capacity growing geometrically < 1261568765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that that rule is about food supply is a common misconception) < 1261568814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't an A* search (or whatever the name was) reasonably efficient for the traveling salesman problem < 1261568822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no, that was just route finding < 1261568827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between A and B < 1261568832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A* is decent for route finding if you know both endpoints in advance < 1261568834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget what I said < 1261568843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dijkstra if you only know one endpoint in advance < 1261568876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't you do some sort of dynamic programming or such to make it reasonably manageable? < 1261568882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling salesman I mean < 1261568885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for NetHack routing you really need an algorithm that works even if you know zero endpoints in advance, and the map is changing meanwhile < 1261568887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there was some xkcd about it < 1261568899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, there are algorithms which do good enough for practical uses < 1261568922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want /the best/ answer, you can't do it quickly with current maths < 1261568941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm btw can you explain what that thing about NP complete problems being reducible to each other is about? < 1261568959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just the same as you can express it as a variant of the other problem? < 1261568992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well with NP-complete problems, the idea is that you can set up one problem in such a way that solving it would be a solution to another as well < 1261568998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much like compiling esolangs into each other < 1261569000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with problems < 1261569000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261569019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then if you solved one of them efficiently you could just use that to solve all the other ones? < 1261569037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that only true for some disjunct subsets of the NP complete problems? < 1261569087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, could you for example use the quantum integer factorization algorithm to solve the travelling salesman problem? < 1261569166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete are all in the same computational complexity class < 1261569172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1261569178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of the same way Turing-complete works < 1261569183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does that mean that they can be reduced to each other < 1261569192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP is "below" in the sense that NP-complete can be reduced to NP-complete, or anything else in NP < 1261569207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it did, would that mean that all problems in P were also reducible to each other? < 1261569219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't see why that would be the case < 1261569226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the case that all NP is reducible to each other < 1261569228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1261569231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261569234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261569241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that all NP-complete is reducible to all NP (including all NP-complete) < 1261569286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all P is trivially in NP, by the way < 1261569294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole P = NP problem is to prove that it's also the other way round < 1261569308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or alternatively show that it isn't) < 1261569344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm having trouble parsing " just that all NP-complete is reducible to all NP (including all NP-complete)" < 1261569363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, do you mean there is a common "root problem" that all NP complete problems can be reduced to? < 1261569383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, any NP-complete problem < 1261569393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1261569418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... just like any TC language can implement any program that a turing machine can run < 1261569424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261569424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that includes other TC languages < 1261569430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, things like BF-PDA < 1261569446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't Turing/complete/, even though you can run it on a Turing machine < 1261569451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-completeness is much the same < 1261569475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so then you could in theory express traveling salesman in terms of integer factorization? < 1261569476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something is in NP, then you can 'emulate' it with any NP-complete problem (as in, a solution to the second is a solution to the first) < 1261569479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1261569486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1261569489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that those are both well-known, it's probably already been done < 1261569509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ordinary integer factorization probably isn't NP-complete < 1261569519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and then solve it quickly with Shor's algorithm? < 1261569525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1261569538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: integer factorization is in NP, but not known to be NP-complete < 1261569545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought it was < 1261569545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of, dupdog range in our analogy < 1261569554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog? < 1261569562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dupdog < 1261569595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we (as in this channel) think it's probably sub-TC, but are unable to prove it < 1261569601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, were last time the subject came up < 1261569606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261569610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting esolang < 1261569636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it says unknown computational class for dupdog < 1261569642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1261569644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you meant < 1261569647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1261569656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, something for oerjan? < 1261569664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all he managed slashes < 1261569671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog's much nastier than slashes < 1261569682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I did spend quite a bit of thought about before he decided to try it < 1261569696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't come up with any sensible way to do non-trivial loops for example < 1261569699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried /// once; I failed, but I could see sort-of how to do it and think the issue was just bugs in my compiler, rather than a fundamental failure of the method < 1261569707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor any unsensible way) < 1261569754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, quining < 1261569755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm sensible is not the opposite of insensible is it? And aspell suggests unsensible doesn't exists < 1261569768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1261569769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oppositie of sensible is senseless, or sily < 1261569772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly < 1261569778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261569796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither's an exact opposite; English's weird like that < 1261569802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inflammable means something doesn't burn easily. Who said English had to make sense... < 1261569813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, inflammable means it does burn easily < 1261569819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, whoosh! < 1261569822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flammable also means it does burn easily < 1261569835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... stating a blatantly wrong fact then whooshing when people correct you? < 1261569848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought it was obvious it was sarcasm < 1261569857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wasn't obvious, it's a common mistake < 1261569860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an iwc joke about that some time ago, forgot you didn't read it < 1261569875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably only among actual English people, though, foreigners are more likely to look up what a word means < 1261569879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the natives just guess < 1261569882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally incorrectly < 1261569886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1261569887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1261569929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw have you heard about Mike Riley < 1261569931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad news < 1261569936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't < 1261569969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, planning to commit suicide, depression. Ehird and me has been working on trying to get him not to do it and trying to contact people who might help < 1261569987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that's bad < 1261570008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try contacting the police where he lives < 1261570052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah, major depressions, getting worse very time, < 1261570066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also that is Las Vegas, a bit hard to find him there I imagine < 1261570094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, underlying cause he said was a "major birth defect" and didn't want to get into more details < 1261570232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, I'm really not sure what to do beyond that < 1261570233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yes, we probably will contact them today. Tried various other ways first. (Why do good samaritans not have email except in a few places, none of them being Nevada...) < 1261570295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/major/s/very/every/ < 1261570327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that sed expression won't work < 1261570339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/major d/s/very/every/ < 1261570340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would < 1261570361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yes police probably is the only way left < 1261571181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261571217 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261571385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will need your help with formal English in a bit < 1261571417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably in private message < 1261572259 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1261574595 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1261574595 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1261574595 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1261574595 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1261574669 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574669 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574669 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574669 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574669 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574669 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261574736 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1261574985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, something for oerjan? < 1261574996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i've pondered dupdog < 1261575001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gotten nowhere < 1261575003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I < 1261575066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: hmm... stating a blatantly wrong fact then whooshing when people correct you? < 1261575080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the whoosh here consists of runaway flames... < 1261576805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi there. < 1261576860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, chap < 1261577003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw d&d has been timing out for me today. is it down for you too? < 1261577166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't checked, since it's wednesday < 1261577191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah I wanted to check the annotation, think I forgot to read it yesterday (the annotation, not the strip) < 1261577201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i read yesterday's a bit late, this morning, and it was fine < 1261577230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looks slow yes < 1261577246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and timed out < 1261577882 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261580705 0 :benuphoenix!n=Schrodin@163.sub-97-2-74.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261580829 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261581213 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261581878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: d&d is loading again < 1261581965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1261582061 0 :wawl!n=wawl@47-112.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1261582064 0 :wawl!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261582069 0 :wawl!n=wawl@47-112.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1261582149 0 :wawl!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261585869 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261586403 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261587795 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1261587856 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1261587927 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261588731 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261588844 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261588848 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261590617 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *" < 1261590634 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261591579 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261591594 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261593620 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@client-82-13-21-224.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261594268 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *" < 1261594710 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261594865 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261594882 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261594901 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1261594970 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261595981 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1261595985 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1261596056 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261597927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1261598650 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261598659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two young men caught cycling with no clothes on have escaped charges of offensive behaviour, but received a warning to wear protective headgear." < 1261598692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1261598702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and technically, going around naked is legal just so long as nobody complains < 1261598714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was in NZ < 1261598720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it's illegal < 1261598726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261598761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:44:06 christmas eve is when half of people traditionally /buy/ the presents < 1261598761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's worryingly close to where i'm heading... < 1261598782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I buy and give the presents at any time at random, more or less < 1261598787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I can think of something worth giving < 1261598797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas is more trouble than it's worth < 1261598797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a rather non-traditional approach to that sort of thing.... < 1261598818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secular christmas confuses me, I think it was invented by shops to sell useless stuff < 1261598826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it lasts far too long nowadays, months in some cases < 1261598873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that confusing? < 1261598890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I believe too much in economics < 1261598895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I don't get why people buy overpriced stuff < 1261598903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re santa: http://www.main.com/~anns/other/humor/physicsofsanta.html < 1261598913 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need to make people want to buy your stuff < 1261598928 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one good way to do that is to change the whole culture to make this stuff more desirable < 1261598929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you buy an overpriced item if there is no suitable alternative < 1261598939 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which is what happens with christmas < 1261598949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then it arguably isn't overpriced < 1261598984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so happy that lwm does clever window placement < 1261599010 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it's not overpriced < 1261599018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isn't? < 1261599024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's a very vague statement < 1261599028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are overpriced, some aren't < 1261599031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet people seem to like buying both < 1261599042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that has to do with christmas < 1261599051 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said christmas confused you < 1261599064 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-149-220.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261599070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buying overpriced stuff is completely orthogonal to christmas < 1261599074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, people seem a lot more inclined to buy useless things at christmas < 1261599076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas is about buying *useless* stuff < 1261599078 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1261599080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1261599082 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless, not overpriced < 1261599090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless is overpriced by definition < 1261599117 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you buy it for 0 < 1261599123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know of any decent non-epiphany webkit browser for linux? < 1261599129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i thought "overpriced" meant "above market value" < 1261599131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not arora, not midori, not google chrome < 1261599147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, my browser knowledge is rather small < 1261599157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way you describe chrome as non-decent, though < 1261599170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wish lwm let me raies a window to the top by clickiing on its contents, though, not just the title bar... < 1261599179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it installs a cronjob that add's google's deb repo to the repo list (on Ubuntu at least) < 1261599181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, chrome is alright < 1261599191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, it's rather weird, but the browser itself is fine < 1261599195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for a few things < 1261599214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best I've found so far, though < 1261599222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what issues do you have with it? < 1261599259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the update thing doesn't sit well with me of course; i can't use the ubuntu chromium ppa, which I'd prefer to, because I'm on debian (sid) < 1261599265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1261599275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have it set to use my WM's window decorations, because I like them, < 1261599284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background of the tab bar looks kinda weird < 1261599290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tabs are too close to the title bar < 1261599295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could fix this partly < 1261599306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I made the background of the tab bar the colour of my WM's decorations < 1261599312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(black focused, grey unfocused) < 1261599320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'd expect to be able to focus the window, drag the window, etc by it < 1261599323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, time to go home < 1261599327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides I can't figure out how to do it < 1261599330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, did you know? < 1261599331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to stay and talk longer, we keep missing each other < 1261599334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mike riley is going to commit suicide... < 1261599342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just remembered to tell you < 1261599344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster told me, and wrote an email to the police < 1261599349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good < 1261599381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, bye < 1261599393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, just waiting for CPAN to finish < 1261599402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid CPAN, I keep forgetting to check for prompts < 1261599410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, let me give you two screenshots first that you don't care about! < 1261599495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://i.imgur.com/ELeEq.png believe it or not, this is actually xdm < 1261599509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1261599512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, horrible-pseudo-3d-italic-blue-text-with-rubbish-logo-to-the-side-and-the-awful-X11-checkered-background xdm < 1261599517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tamed the beast! < 1261599523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/NLThT.png < 1261599523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the grey pattern on the title bar correct? < 1261599533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is lwm with a urxvt < 1261599537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sooothing colours and fonts < 1261599547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean the gradient on the OS X window? < 1261599551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1261599557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fond memories of xdm, anyway < 1261599567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "correct"? < 1261599574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking exactly as in Mac OS X < 1261599577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go, anyway < 1261599577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261599580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's my VM window < 1261599587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1261599588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1261600511 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261600516 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning, America! < 1261600534 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning, good morning, good morning. < 1261600538 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that, anyway. < 1261600539 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261600543 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261600546 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1261600549 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261600556 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261600627 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@client-82-13-21-224.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261600745 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mike Riley update: he's seeing a therapist < 1261600782 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invite him to #esoteric < 1261600800 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being in here shatters the psyches of even the strongest men < 1261600928 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261601049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: As in "is now seeing" or "has been seeing" < 1261601064 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has started seeing. < 1261601073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1261601170 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, /set theme colorless makes irssi nice. < 1261601191 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wish it somehow integrated with my terminal's scrollbar, but you know, that's just too much to ask for. < 1261601558 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261601741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: How'd you set XDM to look nice, anyways? < 1261601770 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, put "xsetroot -solid rgb:8/8/8" or whatever you want in /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup. < 1261601794 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, well, look at Xresources in the same directory. < 1261601809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1261601813 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set the fonts, changed borderWidth, frameWidith and innerFramesWidth to 0, < 1261601818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not suck! < 1261601822 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shdColor and hiColor to black, background to #AAAAAA (both of them). < 1261601825 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some other tweaks. < 1261601838 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and commented out the lines that add the Debian logo. < 1261601850 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And changed greeting to just CLIENTHOST. < 1261601926 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You still using Conkeror as your browser? I'm <-> this close to surrendering to the Gecko forces... but yeck. < 1261601971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Yeah, still using it. < 1261602019 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, feh(1) is cool. < 1261602048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1261602066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if xft: fonts work for this
< 1261602074 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1261602086 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have -adobe-helvetica thingies in the font, and yet it uses the vector version. < 1261602087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like, since I've got xft in my USE flags, "yes". < 1261602095 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't tell you why, but clearly it's using Xft for every font. < 1261602101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assume an explicit xft: will work. < 1261602140 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, -*-fixed-bold-*-*-*-15-*-*-*-*-*-*-* isn't such a bad font. < 1261602145 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it for my titlebars here. < 1261602166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page agrees... < 1261602242 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RESTRICTIONS Xedit is not a replacement to Emacs. < 1261602315 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, "foo 2>| bar" should work. < 1261602335 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo >out 2>|less < 1261602364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Just about got it nice. < 1261602384 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you my Xresources file if you're a fan of gray and Helvetica. < 1261602386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdm is capable of *not* looking like shit. :) < 1261602408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gray and Dejavu Sans for XDM. < 1261602454 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ELeEq.png < 1261602463 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that _is_ DejaVu Sans. < 1261602469 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdm must be substituting it for Helvetica. < 1261602473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it, actually. < 1261602477 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I should put Sans in directly. < 1261602487 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow like the serifs on the hostname. < 1261602491 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaks the monotony. :P < 1261602531 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish bash-completion wasn't so darned slow. < 1261602553 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I bet sid is stabler than Gentoo. :P < 1261602608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1261602616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing Debian? Probably. < 1261602632 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed this system yesterday and there haven't even been any updates! < 1261602632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We've only tested it for a couple of months! Straight!" < 1261602669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wish bash-completion wasn't so darned slow. <-- it isn't? < 1261602679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is first time after boot IME < 1261602693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably cache effects < 1261602693 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is, like .3s delay completing just a lowly filename. < 1261602700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, not for me < 1261602707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, are you running native or in VM? < 1261602716 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VM, but on properly virtualising hardware. < 1261602752 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :351 megs of ram, 299 free < 1261602759 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is the -/+ buffers/cache one) < 1261602764 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously only 31 megs free in the normal line) < 1261602848 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how much stuff supports XDG's where-to-put-dotfiles stuff? < 1261602865 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a horrible LD_PRELOAD hack that rewrites all writes to ~/.foo to it, too, I think. < 1261602872 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a bit too cowboy for my liking. < 1261602886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, what is XDG? < 1261602905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: JFGI < 1261602915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, my control key has become stuck in the VM again. < 1261602932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just resets it
< 1261602940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that urxvt has menus? < 1261602954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1261602955 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261602971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xterm has a ton of menus, but that's widely-known. < 1261602979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But urxvt's include "evaluate Perl expression". < 1261603007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It seems urxvt's menus do not agree with my WM. < 1261603109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, stock Debian sid boots quite quickly. < 1261603185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261603224 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More recently, Gregory J. Chaitin of IBM has found arithmetic propositions whose truth can never be established by following any deductive rules. < 1261603253 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261603328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently the urxvt menus don't agree with *anything* X related. < 1261603333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1261603335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1261603345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should have done it in an Xnest < 1261603351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1261603366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Debian. Why will you not give me lovely upgrades? < 1261603482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries out conkeror
< 1261603622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conkeror review: "Meh." < 1261603656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to try trimming down iceweasel
< 1261604221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1261604235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the least annoying interface I've found, but the Gecko bit is t3h suck. < 1261604523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because all the other browsers suck more. < 1261604526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately. < 1261604550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know a lightweight program that handles Alt-F2 program launching? I found one once but have forgotten it < 1261604563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. < 1261604582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a part of Ratpoison, you see... < 1261604696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmenu? < 1261604710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, it was literally: input box, runs it in a shell < 1261604725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmenu has completion and stuff, which I don't need. < 1261604739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want something in the middle of the screen; this was. < 1261604750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't anything well-known, I don't think. Which is why this is probably hopeless. < 1261604809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you use ratpoison‽‽‽ < 1261604823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ratpoison? But that's SINFUL!" < 1261604844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/SINFUL/unusable/ < 1261604851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1261604857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I found it so < 1261604868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratpoison is designed for a certain workload. < 1261604885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That workload consists of Emacs, one or two unrelated terminals, and a browser. < 1261604900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a screen that isn't too big (because otherwise everything will be in the corners.) < 1261604915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given those, since they won't interact much, ratpoison is probably close to the most optimal window manager. < 1261604932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, Emacs' buffer management is strikingly similar to Ratpoison. < 1261605062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I figured out why my X11 cursor is red. < 1261605128 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.131.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261605135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My workload consists of a terminal, a browser, and possibly a virtual machine or two. < 1261605144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that, Ratpoison is just about optimal. < 1261605159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gtk's Mist style is pooping on my grey colour scheme party. < 1261605165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should tweak it to behave. < 1261605171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would *not* want to use it for heavier workloads. < 1261605189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lwm is pooping on my I-like-clicking-on-window-contents-to-raise party, too) < 1261605301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it actually possible to disable xpdf's ugly menus? < 1261605506 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261605515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so. < 1261605515 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261605533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not menus. < 1261605534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toolbar. < 1261605537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better question, though: is it possible to make Motif not ugly? < 1261605548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Want a page that shows you how? < 1261605570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I may start using Motif programs. XD < 1261605573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nedit.org/technotes/looks-1.php < 1261605578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nedit.org/technotes/looks-before.gif < 1261605578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before < 1261605581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nedit.org/technotes/looks-after.gif < 1261605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After < 1261605603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is that usually, Motif programs have a bad interface beyond the looks :P < 1261605647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freow. < 1261605655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah... < 1261605658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Freeow, no? < 1261605671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only so much that can be done with 20 year old programs. :P < 1261605718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For xpdf, I'd remove the page navigation buttons (useless, I have a scrollbar for that). < 1261605727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need the print or the help buttons either, but I can live with those. < 1261605735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The zoom and search items are probably good. < 1261605738 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261605760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the icons are fugly. < 1261605771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could probably be fixed just by making them vector icons, though. < 1261605779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no biggie though imo. < 1261605797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not sure how to adapt that nedit page to non-edit programs; it uses "nedit" as the resource. What's it inherited from? Motif? < 1261605822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what's the difference between foo*bar and foo.bar? I forget. < 1261605978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://toastytech.com/guis/win7101apps.png < 1261605978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7: the best platform to run your Windows 1.01 programs. < 1261606028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr; I may just patch lwm to let me raise a window by clicking inside it. < 1261606034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's non-reparenting; that's likely to be the problem. < 1261606161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm totally tempted to switch to Debian sid. < 1261606238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://toastytech.com/guis/win7101apps.png <-- that old calculator renders incorrectly it seems < 1261606242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS broke something ARGH! < 1261606256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably like that in Windows 1; not exactly the most polished OS. < 1261606260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261606275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text going out of the button < 1261606275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at the menus in the Windows 1 programs. < 1261606279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even retaining the non-antialiasedness. < 1261606285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that's what I meant. < 1261606301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty close to the Windows 1 rendering, yes... < 1261606307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gallery.techarena.in/data/516/Windows_1_01_Calculator.png < 1261606315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an aspect ratio vs font issue. < 1261606335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the old Windows 1 font doesn't exist any more, and the old Windows 1 resolutions weren't the same aspect ratio. < 1261606342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it substitutes the font, which overflows. < 1261606350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it looks stretched in the Windows 1 rendering because of the res. < 1261606513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any luck with those motif adjustments? < 1261606534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not been futzing with them. < 1261606549 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. :P < 1261606551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too busy trying not to scream at VMware Server. < 1261606588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, wait, that looks like non-square pixels somewhere? < 1261606593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to believe that the proper response to asking it to launch a VM is: chown -R root:root virtual_machine;chmod 660 virtual_machine < 1261606625 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. < 1261606642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, huh? What soft of monitor was that? < 1261606648 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. A CRT. < 1261606653 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320x200, probably. < 1261606662 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear software: < 1261606668 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP FUCKING CREATING ~/DESKTOP!!!! < 1261606675 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't HAVE a bloody desktop! < 1261606760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you love how programs make stupid assumptions? < 1261606776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, report a bug! < 1261606790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "Yes, I would *love* to have a ~/Desktop", or "Yes, I would *love* to have files in ~ be owned by root". < 1261606804 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty sure ~/Desktop is a default for some magic XDE "DESKTOPLOCATION" variable that I refuse to set. < 1261606817 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's STANDARD. It's not like ~ is really *yours* or anything." < 1261606820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, why not set it? < 1261606821 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck you, user. Fuck you." < 1261606836 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I have no bloody desktop, and I don't bow to the authority of XDG to tell me that I do. < 1261606863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, also that is trying to be noob-friendly. computer illiterates expecting files to download to desktop and such < 1261606877 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fine. < 1261606878 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: < 1261606888 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (File.exists("~/Desktop")) { < 1261606897 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : defaults.download_location = "~/Desktop"; < 1261606900 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} else { < 1261606905 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : defaults.download_location = "~/"; < 1261606907 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1261606912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, ubuntu renames it to Skrivbord on Swedish systems < 1261606916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the directory that is < 1261606922 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? If the variable is set, use it. < 1261606941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, your solution fails at i18n just. You need to use said variable in place of "~/Desktop" < 1261606947 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you do _not_ create non-dot directories in ~ that aren't vital to your program's function and desired by the user. < 1261606952 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IT'S PSEUDOCODE, FFS! < 1261606955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, that I agree with < 1261606958 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't HAVE to work. < 1261607451 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1261607496 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261607513 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to configure Xpdf's defaults? Doesn't seem to be anything on the website about it. I'll check the man page. < 1261607664 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the reason my cursor is red is because lwm sets it to be when you're over window decorations or the root window -- presumably so that you know when you're in lwm land and (assuming you're not over a window decoration) can spawn programs with buttons 1 and 2. < 1261608018 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261608273 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1261608278 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You know things about Debian, right? < 1261608431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turned a popular Metaplace world into an Orgy world
< 1261608435 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261608481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261608490 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1261608645 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oi, you use debian don't you < 1261608713 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Postoffice accepts (and ignores) many of the same command line options that are passed to sendmail" < 1261608835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a popular thing to do; sSMTP accepts and ignores a whole lot of Sendmail options too. < 1261608846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I just found the wording funny. < 1261608859 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quitter!" < 1261608861 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accepting an option sort of tends to imply more than ignoring it to me. < 1261608868 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, you use Debian! I know this. < 1261608887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also sounds (to me, anyway) a bit like it implies sendmail ignores those options too. < 1261608895 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I installed xpdf which brought in some URW font thingies for X11 for its rendering pleasure; but this has caused defoma (you know, the Debian font manager doohickey) to decide that sans and related aliases should point to them. < 1261608900 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thusly my fonts are ugly and I am sad. < 1261608907 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why has it done such a horrible thing to my life? < 1261608928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that it hates you and hopes you die, but that's only a possibility. < 1261608953 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a button and/or buttons I can press that will make it stop hating me hoping I will die? < 1261609018 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hating me and < 1261609023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know; my approach to font-configuration is something you could classify as "agressively ignorant". < 1261609053 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everything *was* just working; I can't fathom why Debian thinks URW ported-to-X11 fonts are a better choice for sans and friends than the DejaVu fonts. < 1261609062 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just uninstall xpdf and use some other reader, as a dumb fix. < 1261609106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why in the world would one want a non-xft font for Sans? < 1261609107 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This all-gray-and-black colour scheme I've got going on reminds me of greyscale NeXTStep machines. < 1261609112 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, it's Xft, I believe. < 1261609115 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, it antialiases. < 1261609120 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, they're conversions. < 1261609126 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that Xpdf can use fonts that look like the rest of the system. < 1261609129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not as awful as is possible. < 1261609140 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A noble goal, sure, but as a candidate for default fonthood? < 1261609167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it tht gsfonts-x11 thing? < 1261609183 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1261609202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "recommends"-class dependency, so you might be able to fix it by uninstalling that, if you can live without it. < 1261609216 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but apparently it improves Xpdf's font display immensely. < 1261609221 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll just use another reader. No biggie. < 1261609285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if terminals had a quick-use command " prog arg ..." that opened a new terminal running that. < 1261609293 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like tc, for terminal command. < 1261609302 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xrdb - # oops, I forgot the option ^C < 1261609304 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ tc man xrdrb < 1261609306 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xrdb < 1261609320 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'd return immediately after spawning the terminal.) < 1261609456 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray; things are good once more. Now I need a pdf reader. < 1261609522 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/ The example output of this thing is impressive; maybe I should use it as a PDF reader. < 1261609526 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No search though. < 1261609566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like xkcd so it must be bad < 1261609571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh... this is all just guesswork, but at least I have a /etc/fonts/conf.d/60-latin.conf (put there by the fontconfig-config package) that specifies a rather random-looking "prefer" list for serif/sans/monospace. Of course it's very much possible something overridizes it somewhere. < 1261609585 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Xresources is an okay system. :P < 1261609591 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's generated by defoma, I think. < 1261609599 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, /etc/fonts/conf.d/??-defoma.conf is. < 1261609611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do have that autogenerated 30-defoma.conf too. < 1261609619 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd *suspect*, though I'm not sure, that it generates the files in that directory from things elsewhere. < 1261609625 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, that'd just be weird. < 1261609647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: tc(){nohup urxvt -e "$@" &} < 1261609661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60-latin.conf is one of the "static" files in the fontconfig-config package, as far as I can figure out. < 1261609665 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nohup is crap because it makes nohup.out and stuff. < 1261609670 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disown ftw < 1261609680 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tc() { urxvt -e "$@" & disown } < 1261609699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just >/dev/null. :P < 1261609712 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but disown is *meant* for that. < 1261609730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1261609734 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, unfortunately tc is forced to be suboptimal: "tc ls" should stay open even after ls returns, but "tc man ls" shouldn't. < 1261609746 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two separate commands would just be unneccessary mental overhead, though. < 1261609752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, in 30-defoma.conf I end up with LMSans10-Regular and LMRoman10-Regular fonts (the Latin Modern set, which is a Computer Modern extension) as sans and serif, respectively. I'm not so sure that's very sensible; but on the other hand I don't think my Sans looks like that either. < 1261609769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much a bug in Unix semantics. < 1261609782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably quite reasonable to do in Plan 9. < 1261609787 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correction -- pretty much a bug in ncurses semantics. < 1261609796 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Plan 9, there's nothing like "man". < 1261609804 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just stay open after any command. < 1261609819 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could pass it to the pager, but then it'd just stay after you go past the last line. < 1261609828 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The pager doesn't use ncurses-style stuff in Plan 9.) < 1261609831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unix semantic in question is "always close after the program exits". < 1261609838 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1261609846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not closing after it exits would break modern man(1)s. < 1261609850 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're crap. :P < 1261609894 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying that even GNU sleep doesn't have a "forever" option. < 1261609947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised GNU sleep isn't at least as bloated as GNU hello. < 1261609958 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"while true; sleep 1000d; done" does it. < 1261609962 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *do sleep < 1261610022 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1261610022 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : urxvt -e "sh -c '$@; while true; do sleep 1000d; done'" & < 1261610026 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the bug < 1261610038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1261610049 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Can you tell what it is yet?" < 1261610084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$@ = "" < 1261610101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that. < 1261610109 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$@ =~ /'/ < 1261610148 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, maybe. < 1261610152 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, I'll just not use this for things like ls. < 1261610175 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily run "ls" in your current terminal without disrupting things. < 1261610177 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, if I do "tc irssi" it gets the title irssi. < 1261610178 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiny. < 1261610188 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make tc a shell script, not a function. < 1261610452 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are correct and I apologise. Your last project was actually both commercially viable and original. Unfortunately the part that was commercially viable was not original, and the part that was original was not commercially viable." < 1261610796 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to improve my accuracy with a mouse. < 1261610802 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always overshoot. < 1261610866 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if any Firefox users want typing a query in the address bar to search Google instead of I'm Feeling Lucky, and thus remove the need for the search box, set keyword.URL to: < 1261610873 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&q= < 1261611240 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fuck; and the system gets told about the DPI again and thusly fucks up. < 1261611400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I use Ubuntu < 1261611422 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Die, foul demon of non-rolling release and... and GNOME and... SHUTTLEWORTH < 1261611441 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to reboot, anyway. < 1261611446 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fix the fucking DPI fucking fuckshit fucking fucker. < 1261611453 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261611562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Guess what fun I discovered today < 1261611580 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS Level 3 has a 3D transforms module - joy! < 1261611682 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261611687 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. < 1261611691 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't terminals execute ~/.profile by default? < 1261611701 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for a desktop machine, that means that ~/.profile is basically "console rc". < 1261611708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is dumbfuck retarded. < 1261611724 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what am I meant to do? Put things in bashrc? So only bash reads them? < 1261611800 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is dash my sh? < 1261611815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're supposed to put ". .profile" in your .bash_profile < 1261611883 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash is your sh because dash is leaner and stuff and /bin/sh only has to be a POSIX sh, not bash < 1261611895 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have no .bash_profile. < 1261611899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make one < 1261611907 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And loading .bash_profile but not .profile? /etc/profile too? THE SYSTEM IS FUCKED UP < 1261611914 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Or, I could just put . .profile in my bashrc. < 1261611914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just bash < 1261611916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complain to it < 1261611930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: True, you could! But that would be different behavior!!1!!11 < 1261611941 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more pertinently: why don't terminals default to login shells? < 1261611959 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, why doesn't some distro completely abolish all the rc madness and just make there be one file? < 1261611967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "zomg it wasn't spawned by login(1)". < 1261611972 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could make all of them be loaded in all cases, so people don't have to know which one to create.) < 1261611979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they won't all parse on every shell < 1261611984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing which one to create is easy < 1261611993 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: dude, you can test for shell < 1261611999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: profile should parse on all Bourne shells. < 1261612001 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know -- $SHELL < 1261612007 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if you use csh? < 1261612017 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, csh doesn't load .profile afaik < 1261612018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh never loads profile. < 1261612030 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehird_ wants one for every shell ever < 1261612031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it loads profile.csh < 1261612034 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1261612036 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that < 1261612095 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it simply makes no sense: < 1261612101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists < 1261612101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then < 1261612101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH" < 1261612101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi < 1261612107 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Debian, this snippet is found in .profile. < 1261612112 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now: Why would you possibly want that? < 1261612118 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO would expect consoles to be able to access ~/bin stuff but not terminals? < 1261612126 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would this be desired default behaviour? < 1261612143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, finding the correct shell is easy: man $(egrep $(whoami) /etc/passwd | egrep -o "[^/:]+$") < 1261612146 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's idiotic to have such automagic behaviour if it NEVER RUNS for the usage you'd most want it in. < 1261612167 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1261612339 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261612376 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261612412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →