< 1261613424 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Christmas Eve. < 1261613463 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christmas doesn't exist, that's ridiculous < 1261613469 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1261613493 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gGopKNPqVk < 1261613508 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about the internet, is that it's christmas all the time < 1261613521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Happy Christmas Eve Eve. < 1261613539 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Flash, and not even any sound on this system. :P < 1261613546 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Was originally evaluating sid for server use.) < 1261613567 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed up youtube so that it doesn't use flash < 1261613573 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClickToFlash does that. < 1261613581 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't set anything up in this VM. < 1261613617 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261613685 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to override colours in .gtkrc-2.0? < 1261613740 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261614437 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261615096 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if it would be feasible to create an LD_PRELOA < 1261615134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_PRELOAD library? Feasible, but painful as all hell. < 1261615135 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- stupid VM -- < 1261615150 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D doohickey, that wraps the X11 bitmap font libraries, and - < 1261615167 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to load a font starting with xft: - creates a bitmap font backed by xft < 1261615175 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getglyph() or whatever would render "the char" with xft < 1261615183 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blit("abc") would do the obvious < 1261615183 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1261615193 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you could even put it in the normal font syntax < 1261615201 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-xft-Sans-10-*-*-(...) < 1261615226 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, oldschool and minimalist tools can simply either be linked with the relevant library or LD_PRELOADed with it, and voila < 1261615230 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xft fonts < 1261615238 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LD_PRELOAD libraries are pretty easy actually < 1261615255 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just like a regular library, except if you want to call the function you're replacing (i.e. wrap it), you just have to dlopen/dlsym to get the original function < 1261615258 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and call that < 1261615305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: Uh, I at least *think* the X11 bitmap font stuff is serverside. < 1261615320 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. Same difference and whatnot. < 1261615324 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get the basic idea. < 1261615383 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I could make my window manager (lwm) use Xft fonts for the title bars and the hidden window list. < 1261615395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_PRELOAD won't help. Rebuilding the server, though... < 1261615400 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who doesn't want xedit with pretty fonts?!?!?! < 1261615404 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LD_PRELOAD on the server, duh. < 1261615413 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LD_PRELOAD: "Because I'm too fucking lazy to fight against my distro."(TM)) < 1261615418 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fight my distro < 1261615426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... LD_PRELOAD can only replace dynamically linked symbols. < 1261615439 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Some of the server is in a library, yah? < 1261615444 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably at least the font stuff it calls is. < 1261615490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So it is. /usr/lib/libXfont.so.1 < 1261615499 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261615503 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261615528 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with coercing Xorg out of its traditional /usr/X11R6 home is that the rest of the system gets to deal with its rampant pollution of every filesystem resource it can access. :P < 1261615536 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, seriously. Waay too many files. < 1261615563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, X is a freaking behemoth. < 1261615620 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python subreddit header: "(birthday cake icon) Python (10K!)". < 1261615628 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those seven versions sure flew by quickly. < 1261615641 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1261615695 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem idea: rimshotfs. It serves a single file; accessing it in any way causes a rimshot sound to be played. The contents of the file is always "Ba-dum, TISH!". < 1261615926 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's xclock is fun. < 1261615937 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does Xft, antialiasing, colours (with blending between multiple colours for the hands crossing), etc. < 1261615963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the one that's been used as a testbed for everything. :) < 1261615995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also an option for it to have a circular window with an antialiased border, and the window itself being translucent, IIRC. < 1261616004 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -chime This option indicates that the clock should chime once on the < 1261616005 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : half hour and twice on the hour. < 1261616039 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/Big_ben_clock < 1261616076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : face (class FaceName) < 1261616076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Specify the pattern for the font to be used for the digital < 1261616076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : clock when Xrender is used. Patterns are specified using the < 1261616076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fontconfig face format described in the Font Names section of < 1261616076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fonts.conf(5). < 1261616113 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261616143 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS < 1261616143 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Xclock believes the system clock. < 1261616148 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261616154 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you know, this thing is a few steps away from reading mail. < 1261616162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1261616175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been used for testing every single X11 feature added in the past 4 or 5 years. < 1261616179 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet it still lacks an option for "don't draw a window border in -digital mode." < 1261616188 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. I want a clock in the corner of my screen, dammit!) < 1261616189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing < 1261616193 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: xclock! < 1261616203 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is SO MODERN. < 1261616205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Xest of clocks! < 1261616208 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read its man page. < 1261616229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone's ever tried rewriting Xt to use nicer-looking widgets
< 1261616241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby making all the old X11 programs look nicer. < 1261616257 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too pixelly. it'd fuck things up < 1261616265 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, even xedit(1) has gradients nowadays < 1261616272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... can you make it display the redundant clock? < 1261616273 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves... xman? and xman is a crock of shit < 1261616277 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ? < 1261616283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xman doesn't use Xt. < 1261616289 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1261616310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xt offers the Motif-y widgets, IIRC. < 1261616315 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1261616321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pleaseenjoy.com/project.php?cat=1&subcat=&pid=18&navpoint=16 < 1261616325 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, most of the programs it'd help are shit anyway < 1261616327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motif wraps it. < 1261616340 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean... Motif isn't the culprit? < 1261616351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, X is. < 1261616372 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: would be 10x better if the surrounding depictions were reflections of the actual clock < 1261616380 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they had surrounding ones too < 1261616382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a fractal clock < 1261616385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, rofl http://pleaseenjoy.com/project.php?cat=1&subcat=&pid=67&navpoint=19 < 1261616475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, ehird_, if you can remember our discussion way back when about intellectual property law, I've realized there is an addendum I want to add. There is no justification whatsoever that two independent inventors of the same thing do not share ownership of the invention. < 1261616508 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that is an argument *against* patents? < 1261616519 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents discourage original thought if it leads to the same conclusion. < 1261616542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an argument against the current system. < 1261616542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents also discourage building on previous thought. < 1261616552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to clarify my stance < 1261616568 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole definition of parents is that if you invent something first, other people have to pay you to use that invention. < 1261616573 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*patents < 1261616623 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say you support patents, but from what I can tell you support a subset of things you believe they result in, and define your position as "reform it so that only those things happen". But I don't think that's possible; you oppose the very underpinning of patents. < 1261616659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, *does* he want? < 1261616663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said I supported the current system as being a stellar exampl of intellectual property law < 1261616677 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I tried evaluating that, but the thunk diverged. < 1261616682 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know that. < 1261616697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You seem opposed to the very notion. < 1261616701 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your "reformed patents" are a contradiction in terms: you want patents without the very underpinning of patents, so that you can get only the results you see as positive. < 1261616702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't realise it. < 1261616706 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You simply can't have that. < 1261616725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: As far as patents go, pretty much < 1261616728 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like saying "let's reform petrol engines so they don't produce CO2." < 1261616734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please, explain how my uninformed opinion about your opinion is wrong. I'd like to actually discuss something.) < 1261616736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want decent IP, not patents < 1261616740 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great! Let's just remove the little block labelled "CO2 generator". < 1261616744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Oh, that's certainly possible. < 1261616756 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not by that method. < 1261616760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd have side-effects in the design. < 1261616764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it "reformation via axe." < 1261616773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright, for example, allows for independent creation < 1261616790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It doesn't allow for standing on the shoulders of giants, however. < 1261616795 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to add that all arguments about IP are purely academic: it is dead, whatever the law says. Piracy is here, it isn't going away, and it's reached critical mass. < 1261616806 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can argue about whether it *should* be like that, but like it or not, IP is dead. < 1261616813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP is not dead < 1261616813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does it account for the fact that data is infinitely copiable. < 1261616829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not account for the fact that data is infinitely copiable at all < 1261616835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, I just violated copyright law 1,000 times. < 1261616835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on. < 1261616843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot. < 1261616849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but piracy doesn't even apply to two of the major three forms of intellectual properly < 1261616856 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:06 < pikhq> Nor does it account for the fact that data is infinitely < 1261616856 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : copiable. < 1261616856 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:06 < coppro> It does not account for the fact that data is infinitely < 1261616856 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : copiable at all < 1261616864 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you just infringed on pikhq's copyright, you bastard < 1261616868 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his intellectual rights are infringed. < 1261616890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ignores the last 6 lines
< 1261616890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have an "intellectual property" law is to suggest that the following is not possible: for i in {1..1000000000000};do cp foo foo.$i;done < 1261616902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about patents and trademarks? < 1261616917 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would not class trademarks as strictly ip < 1261616920 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of those actually rely on the assumption that copying is simple < 1261616922 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261616927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents, too, are flawed, but for an entirely different reason. < 1261616928 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem more about usage < 1261616941 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't disagree with that < 1261616964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reason is this: limiting the use of other inventions causes more harm than the lack of incentive to publish does. < 1261616979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And trademarks? Honestly, trademark law is actually just fine. < 1261616999 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw i debated these issues at great length and scope with coppro using basically identical arguments for hours; good luck :P < 1261617023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I agree in practice but I disagree in principle < 1261617035 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you mixed those two up < 1261617046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... I am sure you mixed those two up. < 1261617073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limiting the use of other inventions causes more harm than the lack of incentive to publish does <-- as far as the existing law goes, I agree < 1261617095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's not something about the specific details of the law. < 1261617107 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw you're unlikely to get an answer out of coppro about what his proposed fix to the law is... < 1261617108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a disagreement of the ENTIRE PREMISE of patent law. < 1261617110 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried < 1261617116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Magic? < 1261617126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By pretending it's 1970, it works!" < 1261617158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's the thing; if you limit the term of patents to something more reasonable, then the harm/good ratio balances out < 1261617169 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting factoid: before 1923, music didn't exist < 1261617170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... < 1261617176 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for copyright's stimulation of creativity < 1261617185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: No kidding! < 1261617194 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, yes kidding. < 1261617197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what do you think is a more reasonable term? < 1261617227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you say anything longer than a few months, I'm going to think you're not even on the same planet. :P) < 1261617272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't answer that question with certainty, but I would say that two years would be the upper bound; something just under a year is most likely optimal < 1261617300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Still causes more harm. < 1261617319 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should pirate something while you're having this discussion, just to add some practical scientific data to who's winning < 1261617342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's the basis for saying that? < 1261617344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A patent, you see, is an incomprehensible mass of words, rather than documentation to build on. < 1261617370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though current law goes out of its way to make sure this is so, this is inherent in the idea of patents. < 1261617385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, there is an incentive to make the patent not easily understood. < 1261617397 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with patents is that it assumes thinking of a way to do something is creating that method in concept-space < 1261617401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a flaw with the patent office, not with thelaw < 1261617402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prevents competition for a bit longer. < 1261617405 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't; we merely find it with our thinking < 1261617413 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*merely find < 1261617416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's a flaw with the very concept. < 1261617420 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, that's just one, massively theoretical objection < 1261617422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A patent application "set out clearly the various steps in a process, or the method of constructing, making, compounding or using a machine, manufacture or composition of matter, in such full, clear, concise and exact terms as to enable any person skilled in the art or science to which it pertains, or with which it is most closely connected, to make, construct, compound or use it;" < 1261617422 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1261617425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+must < 1261617444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very *concept* has an incentive to be as non-understandable as possible. < 1261617445 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And the constitution of the United States of America says that George Bush couldn't have done so many things he did, too. < 1261617453 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... that... stopped him. < 1261617470 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for corporatism. < 1261617473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, that is the exact phrasing of the law and what the patent office strives to do. < 1261617495 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I like about the patent office is that they need experts in every single subject in the entire universe to work fairly < 1261617500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is impossible to ensure this without hiring, oh, every single person skilled in every art and every science. :P < 1261617502 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might as well just have called it "The Institution" < 1261617517 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps insert "Mental" somewhere in that. < 1261617536 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is we're mixing practice and theory < 1261617558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't disagree that, as it exists, patent law is near-fundamentally flawed < 1261617576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Law is not a matter of theory vs. practice. < 1261617580 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you say "the patent system is near-fundamentally flawed" and still hold that "patents are a good idea" < 1261617584 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what "fundamentally" means < 1261617588 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means not an implementation detail < 1261617595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said "near-" < 1261617603 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fundamental idea of patents is good < 1261617609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about everything else about them is not < 1261617614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is good about it? < 1261617627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encourages information sharing < 1261617631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of nothing good about it in the modern day and age. < 1261617633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1261617644 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want ponies, and kittens. But they shouldn't poop because poop is gross. We should legislate that ponies and kittens cannot poop." < 1261617645 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fundamental idea does < 1261617654 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hooray for pat^H^Honies and kittens!" < 1261617658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1261617664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fundamental idea *wants to*. < 1261617695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it does is encourages the publication of sufficient details to make a lawer satisified that you got it first. < 1261617706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BEYOND. < 1261617719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's what the implementation does < 1261617720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/lawer/lawyer/ < 1261617729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's fundamental. < 1261617737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1261617751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is publishing vague specifications fundamental to the functioning of patent law? < 1261617769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the entire idea is to make you publish sufficient details to make a lawyer satisified that you got it first. < 1261617802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a commercial perspective, sure < 1261617814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1261617835 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the standard of clarity is a detail of the implementation of patent law < 1261617836 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me or is coppro arguing for the practical implementation of patents based on abstract arguments for it < 1261617849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I'm arguing that the fundamental idea is sound < 1261617863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the sense that communism is sound) < 1261617868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more or less) < 1261617872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clarity is impossible to enforce without hiring every specialist ever. < 1261617873 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"zzz" < 1261617887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just one specialist in every field < 1261617903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in every subfield. And in every subsubfield. And so on. < 1261617949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be done, all the same. < 1261617960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whatever standard of clarity is defined, you must realise: that is the *maximum* that people will do. < 1261617979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the minimum, the maximum. < 1261617983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely < 1261617991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and also, there should be penalties for frivolous patents < 1261618000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are. < 1261618011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The law is fucking impossible to enforce. < 1261618037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this hypothetical perfect patent system, BTW, everyone would be hired under the patent office already. < 1261618041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Meaning not doing anything else. < 1261618057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Meaning that the world economy collapses, and we're back to throwing shit at each other. < 1261618063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While shrieking. < 1261618094 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find anything that references penalties for frivolous patents < 1261618116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you suck at precedent. < 1261618138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently < 1261618222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in conclusion: patents cannot be enforced, they award entirely the wrong thing, and they punish those who would stand on the shoulders of giants. Ergo, patents are a detriment to human society. < 1261618226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1261618247 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you've managed to do is refute every point except the one I've made < 1261618260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What points have you made? < 1261618271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've only said "I WANT PONIES WITHOUT THE POO!" < 1261618282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I've said that they would be good without the poo < 1261618285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I PATENTED ANIMAL-POO BASED METAPHORS < 1261618292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh. < 1261618305 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But you think removing the poo is achievable. < 1261618308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, you're being a fucking retard. < 1261618314 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You refuse, however, to provide any method for achieving this. < 1261618341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want water that's not wet, animals that don't shit, and bits that aren't copiable. < 1261618369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want them? Yes. Do I think that I'm ever going to get them? No. < 1261618371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, but all that's wrong with patents is inherent in patents. < 1261618395 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so... I wasted all my debating with you, offering practical reasons why things like patents cannot work... < 1261618407 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when your only point is "It sure would be nice if patents weren't unfixable." < 1261618413 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go cry now. < 1261618416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1261618614 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I have my turn now? < 1261618616 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1261618704 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Synchronised facepalm? < 1261618766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Yes. < 1261618769 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1261618771 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1261618772 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1261618774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618775 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618780 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1261618790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION footshoulders
< 1261618803 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION poops
< 1261618807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION beats coppro with a luser attitude retraining tool
< 1261618822 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a luser(1) that reduces the user's quota to 1 KiB. < 1261618826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1261618839 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... adjusts... their home directory to account for this. < 1261618847 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest files preferred for removal, of course. < 1261618858 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And real files over dotfiles. < 1261618858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, smallest first < 1261618869 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nah; that'll just remove insignificant things. < 1261618870 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1261618871 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. < 1261618873 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's less efficient. < 1261618882 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would remove their mail; they've probably already read it, anyway. < 1261618895 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be fun to design a general purpose language with more features than Perl 6. < 1261618900 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: No, it will remove all the insignificant things first. Then it would run out of things less than 1 KiB, and have to delete it all < 1261618918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call you stupid at this point, but that's not my style < 1261618931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: First, take Perl 6. Then, add TECO. < 1261618938 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the 90s, who has files bigger than 1 KiB anyway < 1261618948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not sure where to go from there. < 1261618950 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't call people stupid for missing my jokes; I say "whoosh". < 1261618955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CPAN? < 1261618966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, no, no. < 1261618976 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call people stupid when they repeatedly misinterpret or misunderstand concepts, make assumptions, and give false conclusions illogically based on these, despite me explaining things first. < 1261618976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "Perl 6", I meant "Perl 6 and all of CPAN". < 1261618985 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have an immense power to go through these steps veeeeery quickly. < 1261618998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably add on Perl 5. < 1261619004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, Perl 6 doesn't really have much CPAN right now. < 1261619015 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it would be fun to design a language which does everything concisely and with little overhead... purely because it has lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of stuff. < 1261619042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single Unicode character is a unique command? < 1261619053 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :P < 1261619077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Syntactical construct? < 1261619082 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell let you define ∅, I wonder? < 1261619087 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not neccessarily characters. < 1261619104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 is filled with so much DWIM, it's simultaneously awesome and hideous < 1261619117 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was at least one thing that bugged me last time I looked at the spec... something to do with the Whatever < 1261619126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It also has a nice Haskell FFI. :P < 1261619218 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclude /^#/ # A MoreThanPerl6 script to strip comments from an e.g. crontab file. < 1261619224 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what that looks like in Perl 5/6. < 1261619259 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, even if it is yet another implicit concept, having Perl's -p be implied by not giving an argument to a filtery thingy is... disturbing. < 1261619291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 no longer implies $_ everywhere < 1261619298 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1261619307 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, using the . operator without on object implies using it on $_ < 1261619317 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i know that much < 1261619366 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\$(\w+)/ { ENV[$1] } g; < 1261619375 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1261619381 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ending / means that's ambiguous. < 1261619407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Perl 6 regexes are whitespace-insensitive. THIS IS MADNESS < 1261619411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe it should be s/foo/"bar"g; well, that's certainly more consistent with what I said, but still. < 1261619419 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1261619431 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, what if the first argument could be a block too? < 1261619447 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6's Unicode support is one of my favorite things in the history of ever < 1261619448 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s{rand}{"poop"}g < 1261619464 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since s expects a boolean result from its first block, rand returns either true or false.) < 1261619467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Bah. I prefer Plan 9 C's support. < 1261619476 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that could just be s{rand}"poop"g < 1261619478 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: link? < 1261619479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just works. < 1261619481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For everything. < 1261619491 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with Perl 6, except more < 1261619494 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it *is* the original implementation of UTF-8. < 1261619498 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can't say that < 1261619502 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just asked for a link < 1261619511 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you clearly have no idea what Plan 9 C's unicode is like < 1261619515 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't say perl6's is better < 1261619517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if I can find the UTF-8 docs. < 1261619524 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find them < 1261619528 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know where the plan 9 man pages are < 1261619531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:50:55] It just works. [18:50:58] For everything. <-- Perl is even better < 1261619531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/programming/c_programming_in_plan_9 This has some of it. < 1261619544 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: he's talking about unicode support < 1261619553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1261619561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode just works for everything on Plan 9. < 1261619562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Period. < 1261619570 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1261619594 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/rune < 1261619622 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/bio for the io functions < 1261619764 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9's solution to the problem of unicode handling is to make there not be any problem < 1261619781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1261619791 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was the first utf-8 implementation it was all pretty new ground as far as encodings go... so since they didn't *know* there had to be a problem, they didn't code any problems in :P < 1261619829 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't handle non-BMP stuff, but there wasn't any non-BMP stuff when they implemented that (two or three days from scribbling out the UTF-8 standard to having Plan 9 fully running it, IIRC) < 1261619833 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circa 1992) < 1261619840 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, plan 9 isn't exactly under active development :P < 1261619896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the nicest C handling of UTF-8 I know of. < 1261619909 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, seriously, I am <-> this close to patching lwm to allow me to raise windows by clicking inside them < 1261619911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's make it not hard." "Done." < 1261619930 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'd be more likely to simply write my own, inspired window manager < 1261619983 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing me, probably go ahead and give it a fun filesystem-based interface < 1261620013 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv $qwm/tabsets/{4,2}/0 < 1261620021 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, the first window in tabset 4 is moved to tabset 2 < 1261620035 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by default there'd be a 1:1 mapping of tabsets to windows; if you have two windows, both will be in that tabset) < 1261620057 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the windows in a tabset would be symlinks to $qwm/windows/N < 1261620065 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1261620071 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if X allows you to draw the same window twice < 1261620083 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. could symlinking a window into more than one tabset possibly work < 1261620234 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might steal lwm's window placement algorithm for it < 1261620237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compositing WM could manage it. < 1261620250 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to do cascading, but if there's nothing to casccade to, spreads out to maximise space < 1261620253 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be wrong < 1261620257 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like that < 1261620261 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bah, compositing WMs < 1261620265 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to write a reparenting WM < 1261620348 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i mean, lwm can hide windows but they're still there and can be retrieved later, i.e. resizing < 1261620356 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems like window = abstract concept is the way to go < 1261620362 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can be shown 0 or 1 times, why not 2+? < 1261620374 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to restrict them to being "physically" put in ses of tabs < 1261620553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1261620583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks forward to trying out the new tabbing KDE WM
< 1261620665 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of any good ncurses IM clients? < 1261620672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi < 1261620677 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sid's centerim is too old to connect to msn < 1261620684 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(version is from february!) < 1261620694 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's an irc client; and yes, i know of bitlbee < 1261620704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use bitlbee. < 1261620715 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i know of bitlbee < 1261620790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-latency link. < 1261620802 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1261620946 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write my WM in Haskell, but xmonad has cornered that market. :P < 1261620960 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This raising issue is *really* pissing me off.) < 1261621124 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it is rather sad that Debian sid in a VM with 360 megs of RAM and a Gecko-based XUL browser (as opposed to WebKit + native) is performing better than the OS X host. < 1261621131 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the graphics are a bit laggy and stuff, but still. < 1261621215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my VM at work does that < 1261621229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTFS :( < 1261621234 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X really does have too many layers. :P < 1261621287 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1261621293 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has an up-to-date Haskell Platform. < 1261621311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it does. < 1261621317 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to the 0.0.x version. < 1261621344 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says that the individual packages mightt not be the version specified in the Haskell Platform, but eh. It's sid; probably not too far behind. < 1261621355 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you installing gcc 4.1, Debian? < 1261621382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's the newest version they had available at the time? < 1261621396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sid. < 1261621406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1261621411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably some Haskell package breaks with later versions. < 1261621417 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like happy or alex < 1261621420 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1261621597 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261621628 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One disadvantage with the location-bar-for-google-search method: for some reason, everything after and including the first / is stripped. < 1261621934 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting fact: build-essential isn't intended for setting up a development environment. < 1261621949 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be "everything you need to build Debian packages"; in fact, the description even says you only need it if you want to build them. < 1261621967 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is interesting < 1261621976 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense sarcasm < 1261621987 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't think so, you can fuck off < 1261621995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's gcc, libc headers, and the .deb build tools... < 1261621997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and binutils. < 1261622004 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: wat < 1261622010 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1261622042 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quSRLETlKDg < 1261622065 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261622082 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i continue to lack < 1261622083 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1261622086 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :access to youtube < 1261622086 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1261622094 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i'm well aware of that quote < 1261622102 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1261622104 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't wat < 1261622105 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffff < 1261622106 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just, you know, a non-sequitur in context < 1261622111 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ggggg. < 1261622115 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhhhh < 1261622169 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs emacs23 for haskelling
< 1261622411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261622720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261623731 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261623750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, Emacs users! < 1261623903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1261624023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Either: < 1261624048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Know of any color schemes that aren't hideous uncoordinated piles of vomit that would go well with a #BBBBBB background? < 1261624051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1261624080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Know of any "colour" schemes that are all black foreground (well, maybe some shades of grey are acceptable, as long as it goes well on #BBB) and do their highlighting through bolding and the like? < 1261624109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1261624120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 loves uncoordinated vomit < 1261624248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261624264 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261624269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I was saying before irssi barfed, < 1261624274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: We don't need to know about your fetishes. :P < 1261624325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does irssi have anything to let me click links automagically? This is irritating. < 1261624524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs terminal support. < 1261624586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urxvt supports a dog and a horse, it can do it. < 1261624590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Worst phrase ever.) < 1261624601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it can just hook into mouseclick? < 1261624904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But that's a terminal thing, not a irssi thing. < 1261624926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but irssi is the one to detect the click and go "x-www-browser $url" < 1261625049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah: < 1261625050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URxvt*urlLauncher: firefox < 1261625050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URxvt*matcher.button: 1 < 1261625051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URxvt*perl-ext-common: matcher < 1261625075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still doesn't know what * vs . doe
< 1261625110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261625205 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261625208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works now. < 1261625216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1261625708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish it changed the cursor on hover, though. < 1261625779 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261626106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261626226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261626265 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261626387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1261626421 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.81.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261626996 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.131.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261628039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my scale function makes my checkerboard, when scaled by an even amount, go entirely black :) < 1261628399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you scale it by 0.5, it gets twice as *big* < 1261628492 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261628600 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261628617 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-74-210.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261628660 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1261628877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261628912 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi basement bomb dude < 1261629015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1261629249 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261629476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261629598 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261629699 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do freaking anything for a new router." < 1261629944 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261629978 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261630582 0 :Gregor-L!n=Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261634736 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261634736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261634781 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261634943 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1261635065 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261635096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261636140 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261636243 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261636451 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-28.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1261636906 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261636945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do some web-pages do both open in the current and a new buffer at the same time when you click a link? < 1261637007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been irritating me too < 1261637016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed they were using javascript < 1261637019 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1261637022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are using JavaScript. < 1261637037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignoring the fact some people use tabbed browsing < 1261637105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's detecting a click, and not what kind of click it is < 1261637137 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261637145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm just guessing < 1261637169 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it irritating me, when I left-click a link it opens in both buffers. And in some pages, middle-clicking a link will open a blank buffer or not do anything. This bothers me too. I also made it all links with target=_NEW open in the same buffer instead of a new one, but some links like this don't even have a TARGET attribute < 1261637196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in some other web-pages, I have found that, left-clicking opens in the same buffer and middle-clicking opens in both buffers. This is also no good. < 1261637232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is this with ordinary left clicking too? i've been noticing it when opening in a tab (with ctrl-click). but i guess it depends on browser. < 1261637235 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-31-232.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1261637246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a new tab < 1261637269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the site, some sites do one things and others do anothers things < 1261637286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it probably depends on both < 1261637295 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes using the C-F or C-add C-F commands will help, but not always < 1261637390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1261637400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I never really understood family relationships until last week, when I saw the equation, and I realized it was actually all very simple. < 1261637498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't know there was an equation, always assumed family was an unsolvable problem
< 1261637543 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1261637562 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the equation? < 1261637627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is simple. With two people, figure out the common ancestor and the number of generations between the person and the common ancestor (for example, if same generation as ancestor (yourself) it is zero, etc). Next: < 1261637650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out the difference of the number of generations. This number is the number of removed. Next: < 1261637672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out which number of generations between that person and the ancestor is smaller, and subtract one. That is the rank. End. < 1261637714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in mathematical notation: Rank=min(a,b)-1; Removed=|a-b| < 1261637726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1261637746 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261637802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can understand who can be my cousin, first cousin, second, once removed, etc, and how many zeroth cousins (zero removed) I have, too. < 1261637831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And various other stuff. At first, before, I had heard of "second cousins once removed" before but I really didn't understand what that meant. Now I do understand. < 1261637841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not think the terms zeroth (and minus oneth?) cousins are actually used, you know :) < 1261637865 0 :Gregor-L!n=Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261637879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so either, but at least it is easily defined < 1261637884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they are logical < 1261637898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, zeroth cousins zero removed would be your brother and sister, for example. < 1261637921 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your -1th cousin would be yourself? < 1261637925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1261637940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or removed, your ancestors/descendants < 1261637946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1261637970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm my -1th, 7th, and 9th cousins. Great. < 1261637990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um no, only -1th < 1261638004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Um, no. < 1261638009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last common ancestor only < 1261638022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1261638031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have one of those convoluted families < 1261638051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I do. < 1261638070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once again: I'm my own cousin. :P < 1261638081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1261638192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least english _has_ a "removed" concept. as far as i know, norwegian doesn't. < 1261638218 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally when they say "cousin" by itself they generally refer to first cousins, though, not -1th cousins < 1261638270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what first cousin once removed is in norwegian, if there even is a term
< 1261638351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which when i think about it is somewhat awkward given that i have at least five of them < 1261638387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1261638418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, six < 1261638454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven < 1261638477 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *" < 1261638518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are just the ones i am reasonably sure about < 1261638592 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261639680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever used or heard of the BBL/Abundance database system? It is a very old one, that in some ways is more advanced than Java. However, I have a question, how can I make the sounds properly on a modern computer (with FreeDOS installed)? < 1261639744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn your computer on and start the program. < 1261639748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, make "beep beep" noises. < 1261639756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll probably sound more realistic. < 1261639833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that isn't what I mean. I mean, when you use commands like POOP-TONE and BOMB-TONE and such, that it sounds proper instead of just one tick regardless of which sound you type < 1261639872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can tell you, BBL/Abundance is very fast, even on XT computer, running from floppy disks. < 1261639885 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the computer is at the church, I can't turn it on right now < 1261639990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how do I disable the mouse driver on FreeDOS? < 1261640004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That computer doesn't even have a mouse < 1261640036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure it is appropriate to make POOP-TONEs at church, mind you < 1261640077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Uh, autoexec.bat or config.sys? < 1261640096 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just examples, there is also NOTE-TONE and such things as that. These sound effects are used to tell the user that the data is invalid or that it is out of memory for jaunting (running the program backward in time), etc. < 1261640108 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And autoexec.bat and config.sys don't mention the mouse driver at all, but it still starts up < 1261640148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't in the part of the church where you do the service, instead, the computer is at the building next to it, used for religious education. < 1261640177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While they already have a computer there, the computer already there is used by a different group that works in the same building. < 1261640189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have a printer, but the cable is not long enough to connect the computer < 1261640270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1261640271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, BBL/Abundance is Y2K compliant even though it was written 29 years ago! Did you know that? < 1261640321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for it < 1261640332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1261640333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, they use an int for the year and output it. < 1261640513 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the computer from Free Geek, it had Ubuntu installed but I replaced it with FreeDOS and then installed Abundance. Normally the computer comes with two optical drives, and a mouse, but I required only one optical drive and no mouse < 1261640643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBL/Abundance is from Canadian Mind Products. They have a lot of other stuff on their web-site too, which is unrelated, including things about religion, deep thoughts, Christmas carols, and various other stuff, it might be good to read (even if you are not interested in BBL/Abundance) < 1261640796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get. -- Napoleon Bonaparte < 1261641399 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read LKAJSDFPONAEITOGUMW4OTU89M3MYMIOYM2A9X084YTM87)))K:f_)>+<*ym@gy<*hwg*hgehx)iuLZAA.doc *" < 1261641417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1261641599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1261641600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1261641641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1261643997 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261645274 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"#dsdev on irc.blitzed.org exists" < 1261645558 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1261645560 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261645596 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1261645845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry xmas! < 1261645856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Sweden we celebrate on the 24th) < 1261646454 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-152.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261647441 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1261647596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, merry xmas! < 1261647605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1261647621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry christmas < 1261647734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fetches a chocolate ball
< 1261649237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, going to grandmother today < 1261649246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grandparents even < 1261649285 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261649739 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-149-220.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261650020 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261650143 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261651640 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261651644 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261652936 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1261652951 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261653844 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261654505 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@client-82-13-21-224.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261654834 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-4-218.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261655651 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@client-86-27-72-164.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261656636 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261656746 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261658063 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1261660369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261666357 0 :anmaster_phone!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1261666368 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi there. wow the lag here < 1261666392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laggity lag lag lag? < 1261666394 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and yeah not directly on phone, on laptop connected to phone by bluetooth < 1261666403 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, GSM is *slow* < 1261666429 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even EDGE here < 1261666436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1261666499 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was hoping to see ehird here. meh. well going to disconnect then. cya < 1261666504 0 :anmaster_phone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1261666934 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261667703 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quitter!" < 1261671572 0 :adam_d__!n=Adam@client-82-12-230-183.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261672779 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261675585 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.131.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261675853 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1261675866 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261675891 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1261675941 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261675953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, today is Christmas Eve, December 24, 2009 < 1261676034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a understandable and good explanation of TAVSYS format? http://pbox.ca/10zv0 < 1261676189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261676718 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261679709 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261680496 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"zzz" < 1261685207 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-31-232.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1261685936 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261686248 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1261688391 0 :adam_d__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1261688445 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261688962 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261689282 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261690894 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261692714 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@client-82-28-6-31.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1261692991 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.131.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1261693154 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1261693196 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1261693740 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1261693836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1261694592 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-4-218.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1261695259 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1261696082 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1261697103 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"