00:05:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:10:36 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Quitter!"). 00:13:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 01:07:18 -!- jpc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:05:44 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:11:39 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 02:33:13 -!- adam_d_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:53:11 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:00:32 -!- jpc has joined. 03:51:10 is anyone on at this time? 03:51:27 I was wondering about a programming language based on english 03:53:08 Like... ORK? 03:54:26 vaugely 03:54:48 hmm ORK is so awesome 03:59:12 Ello. 04:43:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:47:40 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:58:09 -!- jpc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:11:00 -!- MizardX has joined. 05:14:47 hi 06:06:02 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:06:17 -!- augur has joined. 06:42:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:47:35 -!- soupdragon has quit ("* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"). 06:50:46 -!- MizardX- has joined. 06:57:48 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:58:12 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 07:11:02 we should design a purely conjunctivist programming language. 07:11:03 :T 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:29:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:36:25 -!- Asztal has joined. 10:11:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:11:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:39:43 -!- adam_d_ has joined. 10:50:18 merry UK xmas ais523! 10:50:40 and merry christmas (backdated and/or forwarddated as necessary) AnMaster, and the rest of #esoteric! 10:51:45 heh 10:52:26 at least "happy new year" will be the same for almost everyone. (IIRC China has it's own one for example) 10:53:22 ais523, wait a second.. "and/or"? 10:53:42 inclusive or 10:53:50 it's not technically wrong to use an inclusive or there, is there? 10:54:15 ais523, well, that imples a single person could have two Christmases per year, no? 10:54:29 if they fly from one country to another, yes 10:54:33 in which case I feel someone is cheating on the rest of us 10:54:33 hah 11:18:50 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:39:56 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 12:54:34 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:07:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:12:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:24:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:31:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:50:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("co'o rodo"). 15:07:27 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:07:36 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:16:29 -!- soupdragon has joined. 15:28:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:29:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:34:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Connection timed out). 15:35:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:42:51 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:51:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 16:11:12 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:11:21 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:11:47 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 16:13:33 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 16:23:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:31:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:35:51 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:13:25 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:23:12 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 17:24:53 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:44:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:51:59 -!- soupdragon has quit ("Leaving"). 17:52:55 -!- neuDialect has joined. 17:54:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:54:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:59:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:23:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 18:24:27 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:24:33 -!- MizardX has joined. 18:26:43 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:26:48 -!- neuDialect has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:26:50 -!- MizardX has joined. 18:28:10 -!- Asztal has joined. 18:37:11 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:37:27 -!- MizardX has joined. 18:56:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:56:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:10:10 -!- FireFly has quit (Connection timed out). 19:12:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 19:49:42 -!- neuDialect has joined. 19:51:14 -!- neuDialect has left (?). 20:42:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:45:36 fizzie, Deewiant: any good ideas for how to go about a Make/C polygot? 20:45:43 if it is even possible 20:46:08 goal: make -f foo.c to build foo 20:48:34 specifically, how to hide the C code from make 20:48:42 the other way around is trivial #if 0 .. #endif 20:51:15 Just make it a command that's never executed? 20:52:33 #if 0\n.hidden_target: .unsatisfiable_dependency\n#endif\n\tint main(void) { return 0; } or something 20:52:53 Deewiant, nice idea 20:52:56 Not sure how make likes an unindented comment there 20:53:08 not sure 20:53:21 still, that means you have to indent your C code one step 20:53:28 well, can't have everything 20:53:30 Oh nose :-P 20:53:39 Typically you have to do much worse things to get polyglots to work ;-) 20:53:58 Deewiant, I was hoping for something that only made the make part messy 20:53:58 Just set your tab width to zero and it'll be fine 20:54:03 :D 20:54:39 Deewiant, can't you indent preprocessor iirc? 20:55:01 Don't think so 20:55:02 it might be some gnu thing only *shrug* 20:55:13 That's why you typicaly see # endif 20:55:16 typically* 20:55:26 Deewiant, yes. though I'm pretty sure I did it at some point by mistake, and it worked 20:55:37 *could* be a gnu extension 20:55:42 Shrug 20:56:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:20:47 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:21:14 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:27:00 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 21:44:18 -!- MizardX has quit ("zzz"). 21:44:28 mlarg 21:50:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:59:42 -!- |MigoMipo| has joined. 22:19:02 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:35:53 augur... how shall you survive this winter without semantics homework to share with us all? 22:36:22 oh, and Merry Christmas (all) 22:39:52 merry christmas Gracenotes :D 22:39:56 also, who needs semantics homework 22:39:57 when 22:39:59 theres semantics books! 22:40:01 :D 22:40:04 D: 22:40:26 *gets poked* okay okay, :D 22:40:28 also, im going to write a series of blog posts on constructing a prolog interpreter :o 22:40:38 sounds fun. backtracking? 22:40:56 actually, given that it's built into the prolog language (with cuts and whatnot), it pretty much has to be backtracking 22:41:05 nah, just a primitive one 22:41:10 not optimized or anything 22:41:18 no cuts, then 22:41:32 nope. just bare execution 22:42:05 itll be a very primitive prolog 22:42:06 not complete 22:42:20 just some simple inference rules and lists 22:43:14 neat. I've thought about implementing prolog. 22:43:24 which is not as interesting as doing it 22:43:29 augur: you has blog, too? 22:43:54 yes 22:43:58 wellnowwhat.net/blog 22:44:16 ah, yes, the eminent domain I've been downloading your homework from 22:44:26 it wont be a complete prolog by far actually. itll really just be a small inference engine that looks a lot like prolog 22:44:32 the EMINENT domain 22:45:30 noes, you've been blagging for months on end now! 22:46:02 and I only see one that's a "I haven't been blogging lately" post 22:46:23 grr, school makes you so busy :/ 22:46:28 it does 22:46:39 i havent wrote anything in like three months 22:46:41 four even 22:46:43 -!- _MigoMipo_ has joined. 22:48:24 I should maintain a blog. hm, how long have I been saying this? 22:48:41 well, now that I actually have interesting projects I work on occasionally. And interesting thoughts even less occasionally 22:49:04 if you wanna coauthor you can. :D 22:50:06 probably shouldn't, I can excrete toxic amounts of Haskell from my skin 22:50:16 sounds good 22:50:18 mmm haskell 22:50:35 i find myself implementing certain monadic operations in ruby when doing certain tasks 22:50:38 TOXIC :o 22:50:53 oh dear, you're releasing spores to other languages now 22:51:00 hell, coding a prolog-like thing without backtracking employs monadic operations 22:51:13 there is a logic monad which does just that 22:51:21 I mean, the logic monad backtracks 22:51:25 doing non-backtracking non-deterministic computations demands list monads 22:51:40 the humble list monad is the one that does true nondet 22:51:43 yeah huh 22:51:45 if you look in my code, you'll see lots of like 22:52:00 class Array; def bind(&l); ...; end; end 22:53:07 -!- soupdragon has joined. 22:53:25 you know, speaking of the poem on your domain's front page, I once did a Eugene Onegin-style poem outlining the fundamental theorem of calculus 22:53:53 only thing is, it was pentameter instead of tetrameter. but I hoped Pushkin scholars might forgive me there 22:54:48 well 22:54:51 in the end, it sounded a bit less Dr. Suess-y than the one about the halting problem, to be honest >_> 22:54:53 geoff pullum wrote that one 22:55:01 so i dunno 22:55:08 ive got no clue what pentameter is :D 22:55:33 iambic pentameter = 5*2 = 10 syllables, tetrameter = 8 22:55:42 5 and 4 iambs respectively 22:55:43 hush 22:55:54 i dont need your splanashuns 22:58:28 anyway, http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Afa5MxwyB_zYZGhjanNrdjNfMTZkOTR6ejU&hl=en 23:00:06 I was young. I had a lot of free time. and actually, both of those are probably true :| 23:00:11 still 23:00:54 lolololol 23:03:44 I read Hofstadter's translation of Eugene Onegin. Liked it quite a bit. 23:03:50 -!- |MigoMipo| has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:06:49 oh man wait, what 23:06:52 we're in #esoteric? 23:06:52 :| 23:06:56 i thought we were in ##proggit 23:07:02 im going there 23:10:26 -!- _MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:13:16 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:21:14 -!- coppro has joined. 23:37:43 gracenotes: yeah. i dont want it to be possible to just define functions and then apply them elsewhere 23:37:50 i want it to be that like 23:38:08 you have to use combinators to do things with functions 23:38:27 and you dont get a syntactically invisible "apply" combinator :p 23:38:51 you know, may as well be proggit 23:39:01 yeah bit proggit isnt esoteric 23:39:02 so 23:39:08 and this is kinda esoteric 23:39:31 i mean, if i made this a truly logic-oriented language itd be easy, then itd just be a crazy esoteric logic language 23:39:43 ALL FUNCTIONS must be a -> Bool 23:39:43 :D 23:39:44 http://www.grammaticalframework.org/ is what I was thinking about 23:39:52 where a is not a complex type 23:40:15 think it might be more on the syntactical than semantic side 23:41:04 hmm 23:41:09 ill take a look 23:42:25 hrmph. 23:43:06 it might not be as expressive, in terms of expressing the things .you. want to express. 23:44:34 Es[+(s), Ex[first(s,x), 1=x], Ey[first(s,y) 1=y], Ez[third(s,z), 2=z]] 23:44:35 :D 23:44:50 => true 23:45:06 Ww[Es[+(s), Ex[first(s,x), 1=x], Ey[first(s,y) 1=y], Ez[third(s,z), w=z]] 23:45:07 => 2 23:45:18 my eyes 23:45:25 goggles etc. 23:45:34 :p 23:45:42 ofcourse itll be cleaned up and compactified, maybe 23:45:57 e.g. 23:46:22 Wx[1 + 2 = w] 23:46:26 maybe even 1 + 2! :o 23:46:35 but the semantics will be such that this is what it means underlyingly 23:47:00 ie, 1+2 is sugar for the complicated Ww[...] thing 23:47:09 by certain rules of expansion 23:47:22 + is State -> Bool 23:47:40 the + state in the background is known to have three participates 23:47:51 participants** 23:48:07 1 is a predicate Number -> Bool 23:48:34 so first you extract 1 23:48:43 or 2, whichever 23:48:46 it doesnt matter i dont think 23:48:56 well, sorry, you dont extract it 23:49:00 you leave it where it is 23:49:05 you :P 23:49:36 you look at + and you say, ok, + is a State -> Bool and 2 is a Num -> Bool 23:49:50 (and we're in an infix frame) 23:50:21 so + 1 becomes (either) a State -> Bool or a Num -> Bool 23:50:54 I don't think a DSL *needs* arithmetic, per se, no? 23:51:16 I can see how it works in a prolog-y way, though 23:51:23 where its roughly \s -> +(s), Ey[first(s,y), 1(y)] or \y -> 1(y), Es[first(y,s), +(s)] 23:51:40 er, 2(y), sorry :p 23:51:45 whatever :| 23:51:46 anyway 23:52:13 then you combine it with 1 to produce another either State -> Bool or Number -> Bool 23:52:41 in the same fashion 23:52:54 and then when you find theres nothing left to combine with 23:53:09 you have just a lambda, the only good one possible, i think 23:53:32 \s -> +(s), Ex[first(s,x), 1(x)], Ex[second(s,x), 1(x)] 23:54:12 but the interpreter knows that things that are +'s also need a third item in order to be acceptable 23:54:31 so it inserts another one with an empty predicate: 23:54:32 something that might make/break your language is having various syntactical shortcuts... enough, not too many 23:54:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 23:54:52 unless you'd want it to be all explicit. depends on which patterns of usage you want to be really common :) 23:54:57 \s -> +(s), Ex[first(s,x), 1(x)], Ex[second(s,x), 1(x)] becomes 23:55:15 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:55:34 Ew[Es[+(s), Ex[first(s,x), 1(x)], Ex[second(s,x), 1(x)], Ez[third(s,z), w(x)]] 23:55:39 er, Ww[...] 23:56:35 and the W combinator is of type (State -> Bool) -> (Num -> Bool) -> Num 23:56:36 or something 23:56:48 and this is the _enforced_ semantics of the language 23:56:52 so you cant actually escape this 23:57:08 hm hmm 23:57:21 i can integrate this with my desire to have a language that uses movement :D