1259626326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259627482 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259633829 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259633856 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259638428 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259640683 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259640805 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259642740 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259643264 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259643454 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259643555 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259645054 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1259645056 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko
< 1259645063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko
< 1259645075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko
< 1259645088 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening mister
< 1259645094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning
< 1259645113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's december already!
< 1259645125 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeew!
< 1259645135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking shit!
< 1259645137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRIIIIMBO
< 1259645140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in some time zones
< 1259645148 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this time zone
< 1259645204 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could sleep more
< 1259645229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for dyslexics to start ruing the coming of satan
< 1259645269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait rue is the wrong word
< 1259645324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like it could be slightly wrong.
< 1259645371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false friend with norwegian "grue", i say
< 1259645426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only important timezone is whenever rollover ends
< 1259645429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, fortunately, was already
< 1259645440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait english has grue too, and it fits better
< 1259645450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rollover?
< 1259645484 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know where it happens last
< 1259645486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sincerely doubt the east pacific has changed yet
< 1259645505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: KoL
< 1259645513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1259645521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPEAK ENGLISH YOU INFIDEL
< 1259645530 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kingdom of Loathing
< 1259645535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What's your MOXIE?
< 1259645541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah?
< 1259645552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :337 buffed, 262 unbuffed!
< 1259645582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BYE ALL OF YOU, SEE YOU IN HELL
< 1259645586 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~>
< 1259645654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :December means Crimbo (and Hanukkimbo...) in KoL, which means YAY
< 1259645737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1259646311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1259650164 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259652676 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259654399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1259654400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259656128 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-84-123.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259656758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259657591 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259658115 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259661521 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259663015 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259667011 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259667672 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259669172 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259676119 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259677035 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259677182 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-188.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259677398 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259677979 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259677984 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259678674 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259679925 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259682533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259682997 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-fktbentsegixdyld JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259683261 0 :antoine!n=chatzill@ARennes-357-1-133-199.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259683337 0 :antoine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1259683389 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259684147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1259684191 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259684245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1259684250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, happy birthday
< 1259684261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy birthdays all around!
< 1259684269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1259684281 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i suppose to AnMaster most of all.
< 1259684301 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok :o
< 1259684328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is P(someone else having bday on 1 December in this channel)?
< 1259684382 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-(364/365)^n
< 1259684389 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, we know how to calculate this stuff. dont be silly.
< 1259684401 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11%
< 1259684410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, I didn't claim you didn't
< 1259684447 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed he just wanted someone to tell him the prob
< 1259684459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, would this be affected if we knew that some of the remaining ones didn't? And what if you were allowed to switch door then?
< 1259684465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1259684671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we have the random variables X_i for each dude on the chan except you, 1 for having a birthday, P(\exists i: X_i > 0) = 1 - P(X_1 == 0 and ... and X_n == 0) = 1 - P(X_1 == 0)P(X_2 == 0)...P(X_n == 0) = what i said, because these are clearly independent
< 1259684700 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_i's are bernoulli distributed with probability 1/365
< 1259684736 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could think of it as a binomial distribution, but i prefer this way
< 1259684855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where independence is to justify equality number 2)
< 1259684880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what about leap years?
< 1259684889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how does that work with bdays anyway?
< 1259684891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1259684919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most leap people have their birthdays on feb 28th
< 1259684924 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu
< 1259684930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259684939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 1st march
< 1259684943 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259684947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1259684986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, how would this be handled if humanity started to colonise other planets? With possibly different lengths of day and year.
< 1259684999 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, i didn't account for that, it introduces less error than the fact people reproduce different amounts at different months
< 1259685006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 1.5 year per *day* for example?
< 1259685030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :birthyear instead of birthday then?
< 1259685047 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :birth unix timestamp
< 1259685054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh good idea
< 1259685076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but how often would that repeat? I mean, every 10000 or such?
< 1259685096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that would be too often
< 1259685123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :birthday every 3 hours does sound intriguing
< 1259685127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not accounting for leap years or leap seconds an earth-year would be roughly 31536000 seconds
< 1259685201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to round it, what about every 32000000 second?
< 1259685204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 31
< 1259685211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus those zeros)
< 1259685247 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259685282 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33554432 is close
< 1259685296 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2**25
< 1259685299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that writing (* 365 24 60 60) is much more compact than 365 * 24 * 60 * 60 (and skipping those spaces is ugly)
< 1259685309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh good point
< 1259686033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(365 24 60 60)'*t
< 1259686052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I can shorten that
< 1259686061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(365 24 60:)'t
< 1259686099 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/365 60 60 24
< 1259686105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(j)
< 1259686155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, J and Underlambda come to the same length for that?
< 1259686177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect Underlambda to be about twice as verbose on average
< 1259686187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, considering I'm comparing it to J here, is pretty good
< 1259686196 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy
< 1259686228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get back to working on it sometime, I don't think any of the half-finished interps implement t yet
< 1259686239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's basically fold
< 1259686255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(map is rather harder to implement, but that's planned to be part of the lang eventually)
< 1259686348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that having constant arity functions is significantly easier to parse
< 1259686374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t is constant arity in Underlambda
< 1259686382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has arity 2, a function and a list
< 1259686409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defined even if the function doesn't take two arguments, but I suspect taking two arguments will be the usual use-case as it makes it act like fold
< 1259686419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, two arguments, one return)
< 1259686424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1259686428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car is '!t
< 1259686428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* 365 24 60 60)? Bah. That's silliness. 365 24*60*60*
< 1259686442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's silliness as it doesn't generalise well
< 1259686456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Kinda joking there.
< 1259686461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :365 24*60*60* is correct Underlambda too, though
< 1259686464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's an RPN language
< 1259686471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer 365*24*60*60, generally.
< 1259686497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, I'm trying to just operate a calculator.
< 1259686507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what if the division of a year into pieces changed! dangerous mixing data and control
< 1259686512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPN, IMO, is very much write-only.
< 1259686535 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god ehird isn't here
< 1259686568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: why?
< 1259686576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you know he logreads, right?)
< 1259686601 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc he likes factor
< 1259686609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some calendars, like the Aztec calendar, you need both addition and multiplication to calculate the length of a year
< 1259686624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, i know he logreads
< 1259686656 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oklofok: thank god ehird isn't here" was targeted to logreading ehird most of all
< 1259686681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I should work on Unlambda some time but I have so much else to do right now
< 1259686688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Underlambda
< 1259686690 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda?
< 1259686692 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :D
< 1259686694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Unlambda too
< 1259686705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a compiler from Unlambda into Underlambda
< 1259686708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have one, but deleted it by mistake
< 1259686711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :months ago
< 1259686739 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you specifically optimize underlambda and underload for easy mixing-up with unlambda
< 1259686758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underlambda was specifically optimised for that, underload's etymology is unrelated
< 1259686775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but underlambda is a logical enough name for a purely functional underload
< 1259686784 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload is the one i've been confusing all my life
< 1259686826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1259686833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally a tarpit version of overload
< 1259686854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and overload is pretty much abandoned now because underlambda does much the same thing but is more elegant
< 1259686950 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259686951 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1259686952 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259686958 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT MY PRECIOUS SOLDERS
< 1259686963 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I PAID A LOT FOR THM AND THEY DIED
< 1259686987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: stop derailing the conversation, it was actually ontopic for once
< 1259686990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wr for you.
< 1259687008 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love derailing conversations tho
< 1259687016 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1259687018 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about
< 1259687023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm kind of worried
< 1259687028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a weird whirring sound for a while
< 1259687032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a bang above me
< 1259687036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's the smell of burnt silicon
< 1259687041 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1259687043 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did your brain overheard
< 1259687053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it was the flourescent lights here
< 1259687058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned it off, anyway
< 1259687059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case
< 1259687063 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259687076 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overheard :P so now we're confusing overload and overheard too!
< 1259687088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and overheating
< 1259687088 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with these over-/under- terms
< 1259687097 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underhead
< 1259687105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure that works because it's not a name of a language of yours
< 1259687123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (/)(~:S(*)*~):^
< 1259687130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (/)(~:S(*)*~):^
< 1259687130 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/
< 1259687133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm
< 1259687136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (/)(~:S(*)*~^):^
< 1259687136 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ ...out of stack!
< 1259687140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again umm
< 1259687148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (/)(~:S(*)*~:^):^
< 1259687148 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://*/**/***/****/*****/******/*******/********/*********/**********/***********/************/*************/**************/***************/****************/*****************/******************/*******************/********************/*********************/**********************/***********************/*********************** ...too much output!
< 1259687149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm ~ was... pop?
< 1259687152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1259687157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is swap
< 1259687159 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono swap right
< 1259687161 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1259687170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I've forgotten how to do loops properly
< 1259687175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, failed to generalise
< 1259687182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain still had (:^):^ as the basic infinite loop
< 1259687193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forgot to add one of the :^s when it came to writing a larger one
< 1259687199 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, i can actually still read taht
< 1259687201 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1259687210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, pikhq's wild theories about rpn!
< 1259687219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they? that it's unreadable?
< 1259687231 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pikhq: RPN, IMO, is very much write-only."
< 1259687233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find RPN natural for certain types of statements
< 1259687252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Mathematica would be a lot more readable if it was all postfix, rather than a mix of postfix, prefix, and infix
< 1259687356 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda annoying math notation is 2d, i don't know how to memorize treeform data
< 1259687369 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treeform??
< 1259687387 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my dreamlets is to memorize "schaum's handbook of mathematical formulas and stuff"
< 1259687390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((a b) (c d)) ((e f) (g h)))
< 1259687394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes treeform
< 1259687424 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's in that book?
< 1259687429 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formulas and stuff
< 1259687430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly
< 1259687434 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1259687437 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what like y = sin x
< 1259687458 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah stuff like sin^2 x + cos^2 x = 1
< 1259687467 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pythagoras theorem
< 1259687500 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can prove everything like that in trigology by converting it to a complex rational polynomial (which has decidible equality)
< 1259687506 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these equations are trivial
< 1259687509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's the slight difference that pythagora's theorem is just an observation about the physical world, that's a consequence of the definitions of sin and cos
< 1259687544 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not saying i just want to memorize the trivial ones
< 1259687549 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think triangles only work because of complex transcendental functions?
< 1259687557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: *trigonometry?
< 1259687562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard "trigology" used before
< 1259687568 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you can define distance in other ways.
< 1259687570 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah stuff like sin and cosine
< 1259687587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, bad flashbacks
< 1259687600 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pythagorean theorem says if you define distance as sqrt(x^2 + y^2), then distance is sqrt(x^2 + y^2)
< 1259687602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the weirdest experiences in my life was walking into a room during Maths camp
< 1259687612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeing three people playing three-player table tennis while chanting trig identities
< 1259687634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it would have been weirder still /outside/ maths camp
< 1259687638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pretty jarring even then
< 1259687676 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even if you're correct, and all trigonometric identities in formula books are in fact trivial to prove in your head and directly see the applications of, there's still the integration formulas, and constants.
< 1259687721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: learn Tschebychev's inequality
< 1259687731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it implies most of the other interesting inequalities, but is a pain to memorise
< 1259687934 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok bull shit!!!!!
< 1259687981 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make math too formal it takes the soul out of it
< 1259687989 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pythagoras isn't about square roots
< 1259688091 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what's it about
< 1259688118 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right angle triangle
< 1259688119 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to define distance before you can prove the pythagorean theorem gives you that
< 1259688127 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't
< 1259688155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty. i'm not following you
< 1259688228 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody defines distance = sqrt(x^2 + y^2) THEN learns pythoagoras theorem
< 1259688263 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distance = sqrt(x^2 + y^2) is because pythagoras theorem is _true_
< 1259688289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's true with the metric defined with sqrt(x^2 + y^2)
< 1259688307 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R can have other metrics
< 1259688330 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you saying, non-euclidean geometry?
< 1259688400 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know which metrics give non-euclidean and which give euclidean geometries
< 1259688454 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok just look at this picture, http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/MathGems/pics/pythagorean_theorem.gif -- this proves pythagoras without any "R" or "metric" or analytic geometry
< 1259688477 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the pythagorean theorem is a model that's nice for doing basic physics
< 1259688480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original proof of Pythagoras' theorem was entirely geometrical, IIRC
< 1259688499 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well basic physics is a different matter
< 1259688501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prof can only be geometrical
< 1259688504 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proof
< 1259688528 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be no proof that isn't purely geometrical, because there is no inherent metric for the reals, you have to define one.
< 1259688531 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have given a non geometrical proof -_-
< 1259688547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did i give one?
< 1259688555 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said distance = distance because it is
< 1259688616 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, that's the usual definition of distance in R^2, i guess definitions prove themselves
< 1259688646 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/MathGems/pics/pythagorean_theorem.gif <<< this is meaningless
< 1259688675 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's got meaning, the meaning is what proves pythagoras theorem
< 1259688682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I mean, not only purely geometrical, but without an attempt to translate it into mathematical language
< 1259688686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a nice experiment in kindergarden physics
< 1259688696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that image is a nice proof, though
< 1259688699 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does physics have anything to do with it?
< 1259688700 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a physics experiment
< 1259688702 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any relation
< 1259688707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that d^2 = x^2 + y^2
< 1259688723 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're proving the paper behaves according to the definition of distance on R^2
< 1259688740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it proves that by showing that x^2 + y^2 + 4 copies of the original triangle's area = d^2 + 4 copies of the original triangle's area
< 1259688749 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the picture of a triangle is not important, the _Perfect_ triangle which it denotes is what you must consider
< 1259688755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were traveling near speed of light, that proof wouldn't apply anymore
< 1259688758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can express Pythagoras' theorem in terms of areas rather than distances
< 1259688766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no not really
< 1259688772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it was originally
< 1259688785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, the corollary to distances is a different theorem
< 1259688785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with papers and you traveling all around at different speeds, i'm sure it could bend a bit
< 1259688848 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to verify areas of things have to do with multiplication is another fun kindergarden physics experiment :P
< 1259688870 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of this is
< 1259688871 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindergarden physics
< 1259688876 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is: Mathematics
< 1259688881 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not: mathematics
< 1259688886 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with: mathematics
< 1259688901 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe to you mathematics is deduction trees which a computer can say "VALID" or "INVALID"
< 1259688906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favourite proofs is the one I came up with myself that 1^3 + 2^3 + 3^3 + ... + n^3 = (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n)^2
< 1259688926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like the combinatorial proof of Fermat's Little Theorem, although it isn't mine
< 1259688932 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is taking objects that behave in a certain way, and proving that implies them behaving in some other way as well
< 1259688935 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 how did you prove that?
< 1259688970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, consider a "times table" (a table where the element at (i,j) is i*j)
< 1259688991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you multiply out the RHS of that expression, you get the sum of all elements in a times tabnle
< 1259688994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*times table
< 1259689010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you divide the times table into areas based on the highest coordinate
< 1259689017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. (1,1) has highest coordinate 1
< 1259689027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,2), (2,2), (2,1) have highest coordinate 2
< 1259689028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1259689050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to (1,n), (2,n), (3,n), ... (n,n), ... (n,3), (n,2), (n,1) with highest coordinate n
< 1259689062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you take all the values with highest coordinate i
< 1259689063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1259689070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is just algebra
< 1259689073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1259689073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get i*(1+2+3+...+i+...+3+2+1)
< 1259689079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is i^3
< 1259689119 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a mathematical proof, you define numbers that behave in a certain way, and a few operations on them, then you prove those operations mix in an interesting way
< 1259689129 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool ais523
< 1259689164 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259689186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the proof of Fermat's Little Theorem (which isn't mine, but is just as cool): we're trying to prove that (a^p) % p = a % p
< 1259689199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in other words, p divides (a^p-a)
< 1259689216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, suppose you have p objects arranged in a circle, each of which can be any of a colours
< 1259689219 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nicest proof for that is a corollary from group theory, but go on
< 1259689241 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might change my mind
< 1259689248 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interruptingfok
< 1259689249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you rotate the circle, you need to rotate it an entire revolution to get back to the original arrangement of colours, unless all the objects are the same colour
< 1259689263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a prime number of colours, so there's no other way to get a repeating pattern around the circle
< 1259689272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are a^p-a arrangements that aren't a solid colour
< 1259689310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because you can't get the same arrangement twice as you rotate any of them, the total number must therefore be divisible by p
< 1259689321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because p is the number of positions you can rotate to)
< 1259689345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259689350 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually the corollary in disguise :)
< 1259689356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, same proof?
< 1259689358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very neat one, anyway
< 1259689360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think so
< 1259689375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nice, it means we don't have to debate about which is better
< 1259689384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea in group theory is if you have some group, and a subgroup of its, then the size of the subgroup divides the parent groups size
< 1259689386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*group's
< 1259689401 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see...
< 1259689402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, same proof I think
< 1259689407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those arrangements
< 1259689414 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1259689418 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to think :P
< 1259689482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i'll leave making this precise to oerjan
< 1259689486 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see that one ais523
< 1259689500 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does "the total number must therefore be divisible by p" follow?
< 1259689518 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you have a partition of a^p-a into equivalence classes of size p
< 1259689527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q.e.d.
< 1259689558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: because you can divide the a^p-a possible colourings into sets of p, which are the same up to rotation
< 1259689589 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259689604 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, excellent!
< 1259689607 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the equivalence classes partition the set, and each is of size p, so you have p * (number of equivalence classes) = a^p - a
< 1259689706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the group theory one proves many other things though :P
< 1259689723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's two parts to the same theorem
< 1259689729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the group theory proof is the second half of my proof
< 1259689910 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it's easy to extend that to the general case
< 1259689922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither am I
< 1259689926 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please explain that proof to me in terms of abstract algebra!
< 1259690175 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea for the usual proof is you take some subgroup H of a group, now it follows from the axioms of a group and the definition of a subgroup that it's an equivalence relation of the group's elements whether aH == bH, now because each aH is of the same size, we have |H| divides |G|
< 1259690193 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one doesn't directly work for infinite groups ofc
< 1259690209 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aH just means multiplying all the subgroup's elements by a
< 1259690224 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259690305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, more spam phone calls
< 1259690327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are loads to this office, I take the phone off the hook until they end in the hope of costing the spammers money
< 1259690330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't actually listen to them
< 1259690348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what, i wasn't paying attention
< 1259690351 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and p divides a^p-a follows from this when you take the multiplicative group of p elements and consider the subgroup generated by a, it's size must divide the size of the original group, but the group's size is p, so also must be the whole p, which means the first power of a that is 1 can be p-1
< 1259690371 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subgroup generated by a = take 1, a, a^2, a^3, ...
< 1259690400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're discussing the combinatorial and group-theoretical proofs of Fermat's Little Theorem
< 1259690403 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you really want = {..., a^-2, a^-1, a^0, a^1, a^2, ...}
< 1259690403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether or not they're the same
< 1259690418 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's irrelevant here I suppose
< 1259690426 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, i was talking about the finite case
< 1259690450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you need the inverses, but in the finite case, a^k = 1 for some k, so a^(k-1) is the inverse of a, so you don't need the explicitly
< 1259690457 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I don't like this notation I used with the dots
< 1259690461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them
< 1259690471 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1259690472 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1259690481 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to suggest that all the elements are different
< 1259690493 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe a^-2 = a^0
< 1259690538 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well luckily you have { ... } there to remove duplicates!
< 1259690556 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually implemented using a hash table
< 1259690563 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lol
< 1259690698 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna do algebra so bad, i had a few courses in algebra in spring, but i only realized after taking them how awesome it was :P
< 1259690821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my currently mushy brain cannot see how the two proofs would be ewuivalent
< 1259690829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equivalent
< 1259690841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm thinking he's implicitly defining some group of sort of permutations
< 1259690850 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of p objects in p places, you have a objects
< 1259690860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe nothing like that
< 1259690873 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do something in Underload.
< 1259690888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well an action of a group of p elements on a set of a^p elements
< 1259690890 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a book on algebra but I haven't read it yet
< 1259690902 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is they have the same feel, you divide the whole thing into equivalence classes of size p
< 1259690941 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them prove a^p-a/p is an integer :P
< 1259690959 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a^p-a)/a
< 1259690961 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1259690975 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no /p was correct
< 1259690980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: his proof is also a group proof, but it's not the _same_ proof...
< 1259690983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel
< 1259690984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l
< 1259690993 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a^p-a)/a is also an integer, true :P
< 1259691028 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well i suppose that's a good point
< 1259691054 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you, i'm always right until you show up
< 1259691069 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WHY MIGHT THAT BE
< 1259691087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE OF QUANTUM
< 1259691801 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i do fun stuff or not fun stuff? both need to be done by thursday
< 1259691814 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun stuff
< 1259691818 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually food is third option
< 1259691847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat first, then you'll enjoy both the fun and the unfun stuff more
< 1259691853 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, i have all the votes i need
< 1259691854 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1259691869 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i'm sorta full, it's just the food will go bad if i don't eat it... :P
< 1259691876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1259691878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not that full, something in-between
< 1259691883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat it just before it goes bad?
< 1259691895 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i'll put like a timer in the fridge
< 1259691899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use it for mold experiments
< 1259691925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world needs new antibiotics!
< 1259691928 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've ben bacheloring it up for 5 days, there's enough mold experiments here already.
< 1259691932 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*been
< 1259691943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think possibly the best advice here is that asking #esoteric for advice on this sort of thing is a bad idea
< 1259691961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i got exactly the answer i wanted
< 1259691969 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean at first
< 1259691982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh at first, yes...
< 1259691984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is it so hard to remember quantumEd is fax
< 1259691993 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it even matter?
< 1259691997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's the uncertainty
< 1259692014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why would you ask if you already wanted a particular answer?
< 1259692023 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it matter who you are? because you have a personality
< 1259692029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except to get statements from us that you could later use to destroy our political careers
< 1259692050 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact a very distinct one
< 1259692152 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's nice to know which ones are noobies, because i behave slightly differently based on the portions
< 1259692236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you need to be polite until they are properly addicted
< 1259692277 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259692469 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259692508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's the opposite of what should happen if a regular has a new nick!
< 1259692510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION observes quantumEd's momentum to be away from this channel
< 1259692552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his position is now relatively unknown, though
< 1259692552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i was that nice to him, i told him his math was wrong, which is pretty much the worst thing you can do to a person
< 1259692565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if my math was wrong i'd probably kill someone
< 1259692568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1259692592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't speak of things too horrible to contemplate
< 1259692629 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to doubt your math after me and fizzie's talk about reals?
< 1259692634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you know, it's OK to unbelieve things you previously believed if someone points out errors in them
< 1259692641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you'd end up believing everything, which is even worse
< 1259692662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but there's a certain point in life where your math is set. mine is.
< 1259692677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what?
< 1259692680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1259692689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a research student
< 1259692695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore, /expect/ to be discovering new maths
< 1259692710 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i expect new maths to fit my maths.
< 1259692741 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using the definition of math relevant to the maths being wrong comment
< 1259692783 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259692784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259692794 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i proved a pretty ridiculous micro-lemma today, Q is an identifying code of R
< 1259692816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we call R as a code, points are codewords
< 1259692820 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a code
< 1259692870 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identifying code = there's some r such that the map x -> B(x, r) \cap I is an injection
< 1259692889 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I is an identifying code
< 1259692934 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically you can determine a point by which elements of the identifing code are within some distance of it)
< 1259692955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:^:^:^:^)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**~:^):^
< 1259692956 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much prog!
< 1259692957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm isn't identifying code == dense subset of R ?
< 1259692972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*:*:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**~:^):^
< 1259692972 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ...too much output!
< 1259692978 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not exactly, consider taking all the intervals (2k, 2k+1) out
< 1259692981 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and taking radius 1
< 1259692987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if that doesn't work
< 1259692994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1259692996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you can remove some small interval
< 1259693016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but any dense subset is an identifying code
< 1259693020 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think so
< 1259693057 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if x != y, then there's an open interval between the extremes of the balls around them
< 1259693063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in that open set, there's an element
< 1259693071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*:*:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693071 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :****************/
< 1259693085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*:*:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693086 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*/
< 1259693088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1259693101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*:*:*:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :********************************/*******************************/******************************/*****************************/****************************/***************************/**************************/*************************/************************/***********************/**********************/**************** ...too much output!
< 1259693111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*::*:**:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693112 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :********************/*******************/******************/*****************/****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*/
< 1259693127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::*:*:**:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693127 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :******************/*****************/****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*/
< 1259693134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*::**:*)(~:(*)~^S(/)S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693134 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************/***********************/**********************/*********************/********************/*******************/******************/*****************/****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*/ ...too much output!
< 1259693177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: first of all i think the definition of some sort of denseness closure is relevant here, take the union of all closed intervals C such that C \cap I is dense in C
< 1259693186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*::**:*)(~:(*)~^S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(:(/)~^S^)~*^~:^):^
< 1259693186 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************/***********************/**********************/*********************/********************/*******************/******************/*****************/****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*
< 1259693195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect
< 1259693196 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we just case about whether the endpoints land on somewhere like that
< 1259693223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd look neater in Underlambda, I wouldn't have to write all those operations out by hand
< 1259693225 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't it great how things are fun to relearn again once you've forgotten them :P
< 1259693232 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"relearn again"
< 1259693237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok other attempt: I is an identifying code with given r iff (I-r) union (I+r) is dense subset of R
< 1259693240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well, in this case it's more reminding myself of how it works
< 1259693257 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah
< 1259693263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, interestin that there's exactly one a command in that
< 1259693267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interesting
< 1259693268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so obvious
< 1259693274 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bangs head to wall
< 1259693319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I've known the expression for decrement for ages, just haven't written it into a program like that
< 1259693333 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i have.
< 1259693339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the chan
< 1259693341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with you watching
< 1259693342 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1259693366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, (:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~** is rather messy
< 1259693413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ':`'*`(!01)&* in Underlambda, just with simple abbreviations
< 1259693429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably just 1- with full abbreviations
< 1259693452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, not (!01)
< 1259693455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense for this
< 1259693462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!!()()) it would probably remain
< 1259693469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 pushes a 0, not runs a 0
< 1259693482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to humiliate myself further, i actually originally tried to prove Q is *not* an identifying code
< 1259693485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!0^1) would work
< 1259693495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (!!1 1)
< 1259693515 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mentioned this to a prof, and he said think again
< 1259693591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!())~^(!())~^ would be 0`0` in Underlambda
< 1259693594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or !! in C
< 1259693812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1259693870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely wondering if 0` should be a single character, but it wouldn't be used enough
< 1259693899 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so in fact the best you can do is to cover "half" of R (measuring proportions using the obvious system based on limits)
< 1259693913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think it follows from that
< 1259693931 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cover, if you take the closure i explained earlier
< 1259693951 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the union of dense closed intervals first
< 1259694009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... that whole section near the end, minus printing the slash, could be written :@gg^
< 1259694024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot shorter than :(!())~^(!())~^~a(:(/)~^S^)~*^~
< 1259694052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, thought of a clever way to allow for the slash
< 1259694072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*::**:*)(~:(*)~^S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):((/)S)*^
< 1259694073 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************/
< 1259694076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not
< 1259694081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*::**:*)(~:(*)~^S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):((/)S)*~^
< 1259694081 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************///////////////////////
< 1259694096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, why did those do the same thing
< 1259694129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they didn't
< 1259694137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, appending to the wrong end of the loop
< 1259694141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*:*::**:*)(~:(*)~^S:(:)~^~(*)~^(!!()())~**:(!())~^(!())~^~a(^)~*^~:^):((/)S)~*~^
< 1259694142 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************/***********************/**********************/*********************/********************/*******************/******************/*****************/****************/***************/**************/*************/************/***********/**********/*********/********/*******/******/*****/****/***/**/*
< 1259694452 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259694467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1259694769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, seems my issue with the Windows 7 computer that used to be here was actually Microsoft's fault
< 1259694778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than incompetence by the IT support department
< 1259694782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8388253.stm
< 1259694831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually mine might be different, as it happened during boot rather than after login
< 1259695397 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these exercises just get easier and easier because students never manage to present all 7 during the 2 hour session, so we keep falling more and more behind, next week there's 3 last week's problems to show
< 1259695421 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259695427 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we usually have 7 problems, and a random student is chosen to present each)
< 1259695584 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly a foolproof system
< 1259696299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I really must be not feeling well: typing is hard.
< 1259696355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're tired
< 1259696364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I am, and probably I'm typoing more as a result
< 1259696378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, I had to type "typoing" three times before I got the first two letters right
< 1259696382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headache.
< 1259696391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I somehow managed to spell "probably" with a capital P, and had to correct that too
< 1259696396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing "okay" so long as I avoid flourescent lights.
< 1259696404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as are in every building on campus)
< 1259696422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flickering lights hurt like fuck.
< 1259696449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like migrane, then
< 1259696455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis just that.
< 1259696463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Migraines suck.
< 1259697188 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1259698067 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-188.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259698674 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259698699 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-11-29.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259698881 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259699134 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259699141 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259699144 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259699183 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heya FireFly
< 1259699190 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :P
< 1259699197 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is jcp, I just have two accounts since I have too many channels for one
< 1259699243 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, didn't even notice the difference at first glance
< 1259700072 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259700093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I just ran into a system that lacked less
< 1259700102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, only pager around is "more"
< 1259700113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use vi
< 1259700119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has similar bindings to less
< 1259700122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allows editing too
< 1259700123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not around, nor emacs. There is nano however
< 1259700132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no vi? not even vim.tiny?
< 1259700139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is wrong with the universe
< 1259700141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no vi or vim
< 1259700163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shell is zsh. There is also ash, but no bash
< 1259700172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what the fracking hell*
< 1259700176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, something is /very/ wrong with the universe
< 1259700189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the same pattern repeats for other programs
< 1259700195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreutils is gnu btw
< 1259700200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell it is sane
< 1259700208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: contradiction
< 1259700219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, "no less sane than usually"
< 1259700249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what calculators are available? let me guess, dc and Mathematica?
< 1259700265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages... asm and Haskell?
< 1259700290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dc isn't there
< 1259700295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is bc
< 1259700304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor Mathematica.
< 1259700310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1259700312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure what the binary for it is called
< 1259700314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to guess the pattern
< 1259700323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/mathematica?
< 1259700336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has gcc but not g++
< 1259700361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu as exists. No ghc or hugs
< 1259700363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor erlang
< 1259700367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange as g++ is generally the same or a very similar binary
< 1259700369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor any scheme that I know of
< 1259700388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can use --enable-languages iirc to say you don't want c++
< 1259700400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259700411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they must have /deliberately/ excluded C++ support
< 1259700418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only time I've done that was for gcc-bf
< 1259700420 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just made a reduction in the wrong direction
< 1259700429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't want to bother working out an ABI for exception handling
< 1259700614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from that, hm... there is joe too. The text editor I mean
< 1259700615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pico
< 1259700629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joe?
< 1259700638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nano /and/ pico would be ridiculous
< 1259700655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, nano's bug-compatible with pico by default, apart from supporting more commands
< 1259700796 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259700810 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259700945 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've done gcc-bf?
< 1259700945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my project, yes
< 1259700955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not finished, and unlikely to be for a while due to RL pressures, and not being top of my esolang priorities (Feather and Underlambda are higher)
< 1259700963 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1259700973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finished enough to feel like an incredibly buggy finished program rather than an unfinished one
< 1259700993 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you compile c to bf?
< 1259701005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259701012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in two stages
< 1259701019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compile C to ABI, which is an invented asm-like language
< 1259701021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ABI to BF
< 1259701026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first compiler is done, the second isn't
< 1259701033 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat!
< 1259701055 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to figure out gcc a few times but I always got bogged down
< 1259701067 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats on getting past that point :)
< 1259701079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even found a bug in gcc, but it was in a codepath that isn't used for any of the architectures they support
< 1259701085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so arguably, it isn't a bug, and probably they don't care
< 1259701093 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is ABI something you created?
< 1259701102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259701110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it maps onto BF pretty simply
< 1259701141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. tadd2.8 %r0, %r1, %r2 would be (with the pointer at r0) [-<+<+>>]
< 1259701157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some bits, e.g. compare, multiplication, and, are harder
< 1259701175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's about as powerful as a typical RISC assembly language
< 1259701177 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may I see a buggy copy?
< 1259701179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but designed to be good for BF in particular
< 1259701193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: yes, except for the difficulty of transferring the files in question
< 1259701209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire gcc source distribution is rather large, as is that for newlib
< 1259701215 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a bf assembly language a while back and tried to port it, but again, like I say I got stuck hehe
< 1259701234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely sure if it would work if you downloaded a current gcc version, rather than the one I'm working with
< 1259701239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, gcc-bf isn't on this computer
< 1259701250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have a computer with it on, 'twould just take a while to boot
< 1259701272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots it
< 1259701276 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well honestly I was just going to look at it to understand
< 1259701294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the gcc build process is truly insane
< 1259701303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much so, that I have my own parallel build process that is also insane
< 1259701315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and runs it a bit at a time, occasionally using Perl scripts to modify gcc's own build process
< 1259701343 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds about right for gcc
< 1259701359 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have an incredible amount of patience
< 1259701369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: gcc .md files are all polygolts
< 1259701372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*polyglots
< 1259701377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between two similar but not identical languages
< 1259701384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Patch of GCC, rather than full source tree?
< 1259701390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still probably large, but less so.
< 1259701401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly confined to one directory
< 1259701413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, GCC's build system is freaking insane.
< 1259701425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few patches to the build system, lying to it to tell it that bf-unknown-none is a processor supported by GNU
< 1259701452 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your register size, 32 bits?
< 1259701457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8
< 1259701467 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice
< 1259701467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, int=32
< 1259701473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, ideally it is a supported processor. :P
< 1259701477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an int takes up 4 registers
< 1259701499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the binutils probably don't much care for it...
< 1259701519 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259701524 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binutils are custom
< 1259701530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods
< 1259701532 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld does the actual assembling
< 1259701538 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ar is a wrapper around tar
< 1259701542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1259701545 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1259701577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ranlib is a noop?
< 1259701658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259701667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's a no-op even on most sane systems
< 1259701701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a no-op on Linux.
< 1259701707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a no-op on Mac OS X.'
< 1259701726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wots all this about bf-gcc now?
< 1259701734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still maintained/developed?
< 1259701754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is such a shame that the ar format is not even remotely standardised.
< 1259701772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, ais523 still develops it, just not a whole lot.
< 1259701779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not really; I haven't abandoned on it, but it's so far down my list of priorities there's unlikely to be progress for years
< 1259701916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you made the diff against base gcc available
< 1259701926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm trying to do that right now
< 1259701927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else could set up a repo and take over
< 1259701935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and tell us what version the base gcc is
< 1259701945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can guess from the build script
< 1259701953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has the exact version number and date in
< 1259702006 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a bf hello world it made?
< 1259702006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would probably begin by porting it to modern gcc. to avoid all hell breaking loose. Well I guess less of a risk of that actually when it isn't bootstrapped
< 1259702027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bootstrapping it would be insane
< 1259702028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, that's several MB when encoded with runlength
< 1259702031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1259702034 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1259702062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, I have seen it
< 1259702064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the need to add in a runtime, etc
< 1259702065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I have it around
< 1259702067 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrapping what?
< 1259702071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: gcc
< 1259702076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf compiled to bf
< 1259702077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would imply compiling gcc into brainfuck
< 1259702077 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's okay I'll believe you
< 1259702078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be insane
< 1259702113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/akqbhj/gcc-bf.tar.gz is the diff against gcc and newlib, and the build script
< 1259702114 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bootstrapped my bf assembler, but that's at a completely different scale hehe
< 1259702130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I haven't got a hello world to work that uses either stdio, or unix syscalls
< 1259702138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1259702150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the famous several-MB one requires use of __bf_out
< 1259702152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you know if it is gcc->abi or abi->bf issue?
< 1259702162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second, almost certainly
< 1259702166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually it seems to be 435K
< 1259702170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's less-well tested, also less complete
< 1259702175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was several MB if *not* RLL encoded
< 1259702176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was it
< 1259702184 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks! :)
< 1259702186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just found it
< 1259702188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf assumes that runlength is optimised
< 1259702209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have an ABI interpreter?
< 1259702216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or any other useful testing tools
< 1259702220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source tarballs you need: gcc-4.2-20070719.tar.lzma newlib-1.16.0.tar.gz
< 1259702221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1259702226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there is one testing tool
< 1259702229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1259702233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfrle, my BF interp
< 1259702237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link?
< 1259702238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is designed specifically to debug gcc-bf
< 1259702244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link = not online, let me tarball it up too
< 1259702264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no need, it's in the tarball I've already posted
< 1259702271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the patches/ dir
< 1259702277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does this support out of tree builds?
< 1259702299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the build system is very inflexible
< 1259702301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the really major thing that GCC-BF misses is functioning syscalls? (and therefore most of libc)
< 1259702311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always cp -rs the original tree
< 1259702313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then modifies it
< 1259702329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and ABI->BF stuff
< 1259702329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it builds gcc and newlib in a mix of in-tree and out-of-tree
< 1259702331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1259702335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying the resulting files into a fourth tree
< 1259702339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the one you actually run it from
< 1259702344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink*
< 1259702348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, the really major thing it's missing is multiplication
< 1259702359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... Multiplication. Really.
< 1259702360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, I suspect, the reason that the syscalls aren't functioning
< 1259702370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I told you I hadn't finished
< 1259702379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1259702379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/you/ try writing a 64-bit multiply in BF
< 1259702385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I was just adding it to a bzr repo
< 1259702394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out it was already darcsed
< 1259702394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has some modicum of efficiency
< 1259702398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't, really
< 1259702402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that darcs repo isn't a proper repo
< 1259702406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding patches/config-bf/_darcs/inventory
< 1259702408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see?
< 1259702409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically used as a versions repository
< 1259702416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1259702417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I presume you have 64-bit adding?
< 1259702418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, you commit code after you write it
< 1259702421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, of course
< 1259702424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes
< 1259702432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that repo, I was commiting just before I did something potentially disasterous
< 1259702440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could roll back to before what I did
< 1259702446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. That makes it only *quite* painful.
< 1259702447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ignore all the documentation in that tree, it's wrong
< 1259702488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's accuratish enough to give an idea of what I'm doing, but not the details
< 1259702488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comments in the source, OTOH, are up to date
< 1259702488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... so can I use darcs on it
< 1259702488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1259702490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there some crucial part missing
< 1259702499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't expect the version history to make any sense, unless you're drunk at the time
< 1259702507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems only part of patches/ has _darcs?
< 1259702511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top dir does not
< 1259702514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact
< 1259702514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: correct
< 1259702519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only config-bf does?
< 1259702522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the gcc bit that was in darcs
< 1259702529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suggestion is that you rm -r the _darcs dir
< 1259702535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only config-bf has darcs stuff
< 1259702535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, version with any versioning system you like
< 1259702539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1259702545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will use bzr as you probably know
< 1259702551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind that at all, why should I?
< 1259702610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-4.2-20070719 hm
< 1259702643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that based on upstream or some distro?
< 1259702659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because only gcc-4.2-20070719 I can find is from ubuntu bug reports
< 1259702668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what I got by doing apt-get source gcc-source
< 1259702670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1259702679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a nightly
< 1259702702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you remember what version of debian or ubuntu you did that on?
< 1259702704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering my jaunty has 4.3.3
< 1259702708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 4.2*
< 1259702743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but considering the date, 7.10 seems plausible
< 1259702752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was that one called?
< 1259702763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feisty
< 1259702773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1259702792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about gutsy? would that match?
< 1259702797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it match better with googling
< 1259702804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, miscounted
< 1259702806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was gutsy
< 1259702813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a timeline
< 1259702925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is lucid 10.04? rather than 10.0
< 1259702934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :date-based
< 1259702937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :april 2010
< 1259702938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1259702951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if somehow they're late with the release, it'd be 10.05
< 1259702965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pressure to release every 6 months is one of the things that leaves Ubuntu rather buggy
< 1259702972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the reason for 6.06?
< 1259702985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two months of delay
< 1259703000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which one will be the next LTS?
< 1259703010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to aim for next LTS and stay on that
< 1259703073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lucid is an LTS
< 1259703102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1259703111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I guess karmic before then for a bit
< 1259703125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was jaunty unusually stable or what?
< 1259703134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was stabler than karmic, at least
< 1259703139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1259703145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different versions seem to be stable for different people, for some reason
< 1259703158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the wireless works even better with karmic than it did with jaunty
< 1259703171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with earlier versions it was somewhat broken)
< 1259703172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would say my gentoo system is one of the most stable systems I owner
< 1259703174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owned*
< 1259703187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact my arch system manages to be bleeding edge *and* stable
< 1259703234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is config-bf?
< 1259703258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a directory that becomes config/bf inside gcc itself
< 1259703263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1259703269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains all the patches to gcc that deal with actually doing interesting things
< 1259703273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to build tweaks, etc
< 1259703281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the darcs command to show full log?
< 1259703286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs changes
< 1259703289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you won't get much out of it
< 1259703293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259703319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is cc0
< 1259703337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pseudo-register that refers to the flags
< 1259703340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like overflow, carry, etc
< 1259703350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf has a physical cc0, also cc1, cc2, and cc3
< 1259703355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are used as temporaries when doing comparisons
< 1259703366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is collect2?
< 1259703371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wrapper for ld
< 1259703379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually named ld, normally, when it's installed
< 1259703388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it deals with things like constructors in C++
< 1259703393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by wrapping around main
< 1259703402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you use little endian?
< 1259703402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1259703406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awful hack, and something that gets in my way a lot, and that I don't actually need
< 1259703415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use little-endian to make casting easier
< 1259703429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1259703448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(short)x is in the same memory location as (long)x
< 1259703463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use big-endian, you have to write code for downcasting
< 1259703478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the main theoretical advantage for little-endian, as far as I know
< 1259703479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259703481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, please explain the purpose of patch-libgcc-mk.pl to someone who don't know perl
< 1259703494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it patches the build system
< 1259703500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why a perl script
< 1259703501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that
< 1259703502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have used sed instead, but the Perl is cleaner
< 1259703508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just a diff?
< 1259703517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, libgcc contains implementations of things like floating-point emulation
< 1259703534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build script for libgcc is generated dynamically during the compilation of gcc
< 1259703539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't exist initially, to be patched
< 1259703549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you consider doing an llvm backend instead?
< 1259703555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not at the time
< 1259703558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might, at some point
< 1259703565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since llvm supports PIC16 and such even
< 1259703584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gcc assumes, for some reason, that the largest possible integer is twice the native word size
< 1259703604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a strange assumption to make, given that __int128_t exists and it compiles on 32-bit systems
< 1259703611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh?
< 1259703615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's even violating its own assumptions there
< 1259703618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work then
< 1259703630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there's a separate hack in an entirely different part of the code
< 1259703639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course llvm backend would imply C++ that really feels like C++
< 1259703651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, one of the things that libgcc does is things like 64-bit operations in terms of 32-bit operations
< 1259703667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea, basically, was to get it to also do 32-bit in terms of 16-bit, and 16-bit in terms of 8-bit
< 1259703687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means I don't need to write an enormous number of cases in the linker
< 1259703697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like 64-bit multiplication are bad enough
< 1259703717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is newlib from gutsy too?
< 1259703725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1259703738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ehird will tell you, I rarely look for things on the Web
< 1259703742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and did you use the patches from ubuntu?
< 1259703751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely no in the case of gcc
< 1259703756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for newlib?
< 1259703759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the tarball I downloaded contained another tarball
< 1259703762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for newlib, I'm actually not sur
< 1259703764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure
< 1259703788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch nested tarballs
< 1259703796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1259703826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is libbf for?
< 1259703836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syscalls
< 1259703849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the libc
< 1259703855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, newlib is the libc
< 1259703880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't write a libc entirely from scratch
< 1259703880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it would be unable to do I/O, etc
< 1259703880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's all the bits of libc that can't be written in pure C
< 1259703893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libbf is, instead, written in magic
< 1259703899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you can't write a libc entirely from scratch <-- why not? it would just take some time
< 1259703912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I/O, etc
< 1259703917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you need inline ASM
< 1259703919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else similar
< 1259703923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well. that isn't what you said
< 1259703932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, in pure C
< 1259703935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259703942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it makes sense
< 1259703947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, some of it is pure C
< 1259703955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the filesystem is a linked list stored on the heap
< 1259703962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard requires files
< 1259703968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't require them to persist past the end of the program
< 1259703969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is the ABI documented anywhere?
< 1259703996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which?
< 1259704002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABI the asm, or ABI the application binary interface?
< 1259704014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface is documented, to some extent, in comments in bf.g
< 1259704014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, your own fault for confusing it
< 1259704015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1259704017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bf.h
< 1259704020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both would be useful
< 1259704020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did that deliberately
< 1259704027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant asm in this case
< 1259704029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the asm is documented, to some extent, in bf-ld
< 1259704036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_operations <<< look at the definition of prefix-closed, is it just me or does that make no sense?
< 1259704039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is the asm -> bf translator?
< 1259704043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the perl bf-ld?
< 1259704048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259704051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I will probably rewrite it
< 1259704051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-ld does most of the actual work
< 1259704056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be in python or something
< 1259704064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that'd be rewriting more than half the project
< 1259704071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I don't know perl
< 1259704073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, don't let that stop you if you really want to
< 1259704073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance Pref({aaa}) would be the empty set
< 1259704093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is your longjmp stuff tested?
< 1259704115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and indeed I think it doesn't work
< 1259704115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took long enough to get just regular function calls working
< 1259704115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? I have no clue about how it should work really
< 1259704120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same way it's implemented in any other language
< 1259704127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "any other target"
< 1259704130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean
< 1259704130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1259704131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1259704138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that in gcc-bf, you also have to clear the frame pointer stack
< 1259704140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue how it usually work
< 1259704147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait what?
< 1259704149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is something that AFAIK no processor has in hardware
< 1259704153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it's implemented as a linked list instead
< 1259704172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would happen with -fomit-frame-pointer in gcc-bf?
< 1259704179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think you can actually do that
< 1259704187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the frame pointer doesn't take up a register
< 1259704188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do you need the frame pointer?
< 1259704205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can return from functions when you use alloca or VLAs
< 1259704221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? how does "normal" targets handle that?
< 1259704232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by adding a frame pointer for functions that use them, IIRC
< 1259704244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omit-frame-pointer doesn't necessarily omit it everywhere
< 1259704246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it's safe
< 1259704249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not do that?
< 1259704290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, there is a hardware frame pointer stack
< 1259704293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot lot more efficient than storing the pointer as an intege
< 1259704295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*integer
< 1259704302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dereferencing a numeric pointer is slow slow slow in BF
< 1259704312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just doing [<] until you find a 0 is much faster
< 1259704313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1259704348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it would reduce the computational class
< 1259704353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-abi
< 1259704353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output the ABI produced by the link as well as the final brainfuck
< 1259704353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code.
< 1259704353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-asm
< 1259704353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output the low-level ABI that shows what the ABI was transformed to
< 1259704354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before final ABI output.
< 1259704356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259704358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf has no problems allowing you to go over the top of pointer-accessible memory
< 1259704367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't actually overflow the stack
< 1259704382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, you mustn't ask for or dereference a pointer to stack elements above the top of memory
< 1259704402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happens to the frame pointer in callees? like a VLA-allocating function calling one using alloca?
< 1259704413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stays on the frame pointer stack, obviously
< 1259704424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, on other processors, it gets saved in a register somewhere, I think
< 1259704424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you said register I thought?
< 1259704435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the registers get mapped to memory when you call a function anyway
< 1259704448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like uh sparc?
< 1259704454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean manually
< 1259704457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1259704462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need to preserve the content of a register across a function call
< 1259704472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be it the frame pointer or anything else
< 1259704477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you copy it to memory
< 1259704479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aren't usually half of them caller saved and half callee-saved?
< 1259704480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1259704480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard compiler design
< 1259704485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, correct in this case too
< 1259704496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how many registers?
< 1259704500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 general-purpose
< 1259704505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 caller-saved, 32 callee-saved
< 1259704514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, many special-purpose ones
< 1259704516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not more?
< 1259704519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259704540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not? if memory is slow and registers less so you would want more no?
< 1259704565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly to prevent register scheduling taking forever
< 1259704587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? but what about current arches with lots of registers?
< 1259704598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is lots
< 1259704600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and llvm internally uses 1024 virtual registers
< 1259704606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add more, I suppose
< 1259704618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would have to check if it would help or not
< 1259704635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what special purpose registers are there?
< 1259704651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice list in bf-ld somewhere, let me find it
< 1259704672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at argloc
< 1259704698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm a lot of regexes?
< 1259704703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexpes*
< 1259704705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1259704721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are their functions?
< 1259704746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scratch register, two carry registers, two maintained at 0, three temp registers
< 1259704746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also three pointers (mark, stack, frame)
< 1259704746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two maintained at 0?
< 1259704757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for leaving loops, etc
< 1259704763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why two?
< 1259704763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's two a specific distance apart
< 1259704765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259704768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can become sure where the pointer is
< 1259704773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you weren't sure where it was before
< 1259704778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the easiest way to do conditionals
< 1259704796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*four temp registers
< 1259704810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you went for softfloat?
< 1259704815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259704820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why?
< 1259704821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why are you even asking that question?
< 1259704837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if it is not utterly obvious why you'd use softfloat in a brainfuck-based simulated processor
< 1259704841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is wrong with you
< 1259704848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, softfloat would be even slower wouldn't it than one that is optimised bf one, right?
< 1259704876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, it would need to split across registers
< 1259704883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what if they aren't next to each other?
< 1259704890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they were, would it help much?
< 1259704910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating's going to be soft anyway
< 1259704916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do write a good hard float library for BF
< 1259704917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1259704922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1259704923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :publish it, it'd be useful even outside gcc-bf
< 1259704943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does a bf library even make sense
< 1259704943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside the context of gcc-bf
< 1259704948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes?
< 1259704952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1259704955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1259704960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it #define-style
< 1259704962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess as a set of functions listed on a page
< 1259704970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly do cleverer things, depending on what you were doing
< 1259704992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you consider compiling to pebble first?
< 1259705013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there wouldn't be much of a point
< 1259705023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259705038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((test x$1 = xrc || test x$1 = xcr || test x$1 = xcru) && shift && tar czvf $* ) || (test x$1 = xx && shift && tar xzvf $* ) || (echo Usage: bf-ar cr archive.a file.o [file.o [...]])
< 1259705040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-ar
< 1259705041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nice
< 1259705044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what the hell?
< 1259705060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void _exit (int rv) { (void) rv; goto *(void*)0; }
< 1259705075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh
< 1259705081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly my favourite C function I've ever written
< 1259705088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1259705090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would go to start of program no?
< 1259705094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in gcc-bf
< 1259705097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which starts at origin 1
< 1259705098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gcc-bf
< 1259705100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh hah
< 1259705126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly some other value, determined by the linker
< 1259705126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so lowest page is mapped?
< 1259705126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1259705126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"page"
< 1259705126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not make sense
< 1259705142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function pointers are just tags in gcc-bf
< 1259705147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't point to actual memory locations
< 1259705153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just used to identify which function you mea
< 1259705153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same or separate code and data pointers?
< 1259705154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean
< 1259705157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah separate
< 1259705165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code and data pointers are in separate ranges of values
< 1259705173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, code, stack, and heap are
< 1259705176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, limits?
< 1259705186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're distinguished by the first byte, which is 0x0, 0x1, or 0x2
< 1259705193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, top byte
< 1259705197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't you provide a limits.h?
< 1259705199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the less significant bytes are the value
< 1259705204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, limits.h is in newlib, I think
< 1259705227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is target-specific
< 1259705233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to some extent
< 1259705247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-old.c bf-old.h bf-old.md bf-protos.h bf.c bf.h bf.md notesfromesolang.txt t-bf
< 1259705248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259705251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's those
< 1259705261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, you don't want to know
< 1259705269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bf-old you can ignore
< 1259705269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are in config-bf
< 1259705272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's before I created the darcs repo
< 1259705276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would *need* to know
< 1259705279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t-bf is to do with the build system
< 1259705287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a timestamp file (no content but the modification time)
< 1259705288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Generate floating point emulation libraries.
< 1259705289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in t-bf
< 1259705291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259705300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what?
< 1259705304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1259705310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPBIT = fp-bit.c
< 1259705310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPBIT = dp-bit.c
< 1259705311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no it isn't
< 1259705314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t-bf is a makefile fragment
< 1259705320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets dynamically injected into gcc's makefiles
< 1259705322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one for every arch
< 1259705325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where are those .c files
< 1259705327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, I muddled it with something else)
< 1259705332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somewhere in gcc
< 1259705340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the standard single and double precision float emu libraries
< 1259705387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have any sort of todo list or roadmap or such?
< 1259705400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look for unimplemented bits in bf-ld
< 1259705403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259705409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gcc side is finished, barring bugfixes
< 1259705418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bf-protos.h bf.c bf.h bf.md files?
< 1259705421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: bf.h is a header file that describes the application binary interface
< 1259705425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf.c is code generation
< 1259705436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bf.md is hard to describe in a single line
< 1259705447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's code in a gcc-specific DSL
< 1259705457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which generates RTL, and compiles it to asm
< 1259705466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RTL is modified by other bits of gcc after it's been generated, though
< 1259705478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-protos.h I can't remember, I'd have to look at it
< 1259705479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* TODO: hook TARGET_ADDRESS_COST to give the optmizer some clues about how
< 1259705479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : expensive various operations are. Possibly TARGET_RTX_COSTS too. */
< 1259705481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afail
< 1259705483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik*
< 1259705489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on interpreter/compiler
< 1259705491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bf
< 1259705495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just function prototypes
< 1259705506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have to be in a separate file for a gcc-build-system-related reason I can't remembe
< 1259705508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remember
< 1259705528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, on the ABI compiler, yes
< 1259705535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?
< 1259705539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's telling it things like xor is slower than mov for setting things to 0
< 1259705544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it can't guess without being told
< 1259705549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right
< 1259705558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is [-] "mov"?
< 1259705572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259705577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mov.8 0
< 1259705588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd have to say where it was, too
< 1259705589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one operand?
< 1259705594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two operands
< 1259705605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about mov reg->reg or mov mem->reg
< 1259705606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1259705615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mov.8 $0, %r4" is the actual syntax
< 1259705621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of mov immediate->*
< 1259705638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't mov, as you can't do that in brainfuck
< 1259705640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why the . thing
< 1259705641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, you'd use tadd
< 1259705644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bitwidths
< 1259705657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unusual notation for it?
< 1259705666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov.8 $0, %r4
< 1259705668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tadd2.8 (%mark), %r4, %scratch
< 1259705669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tadd.8 %scratch, (%mark)
< 1259705675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't an unprecedented notation
< 1259705677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't an unprecedented notation
< 1259705687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to repeat that
< 1259705689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that above there is an addition from a register to memory
< 1259705691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typo
< 1259705694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1259705699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no
< 1259705711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a move from memory to register
< 1259705714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above that in what file?
< 1259705719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first step: set $r4 to 0
< 1259705724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, what I just pasted
< 1259705727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above in the conversation
< 1259705739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second step: add (%mark) to %r4 and %scratch
< 1259705740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does llvm use a similar .x thingy?
< 1259705755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third step: add %scratch to (%mark)
< 1259705760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know
< 1259705770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a bf.h outside config-bf?
< 1259705771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc's pretty flexible in asm notations, I imagine llvm is too
< 1259705776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different one
< 1259705778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's
< 1259705780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use by user programs
< 1259705782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1259705804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, note those are transfer-additions
< 1259705809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which set their first argument to 0
< 1259705832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that clear, transfer-add, transfer-add is the usual way to copy a value without destroying the original
< 1259705862 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1259705865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%mark) is special, btw
< 1259705875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mark is a pointer, that marks a memory location on the heap or stack
< 1259705883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use the place that pointer points to like a register
< 1259705892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only way you can access memory in general
< 1259705909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how much memory does bfrle try to allocate
< 1259705923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that?
< 1259705933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klee: Executor.cpp:566: void klee::Executor::initializeGlobals(klee::ExecutionState&): Assertion `mo && "out of memory"' failed.
< 1259705938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to run it under klee
< 1259705944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's klee?
< 1259705946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which handles cfunge file after dropping mmap
< 1259705959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, llvm tool that symbolically executes all possible paths in the program
< 1259705959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it allocates just enough to hold the program
< 1259705960 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mikseri.net/artists/sortokausi.40541.php
< 1259705962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cool
< 1259705962 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol
< 1259705963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here
< 1259705968 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry :P
< 1259705968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the BF tape
< 1259705968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still rather buggy
< 1259705984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is, it noticed that it was possible for it to allocate unlimited amounts of memory
< 1259705988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which a BF interp can
< 1259705991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not likely.
< 1259705992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result, tried
< 1259706020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I didn't even mark any variable as symbolic yet
< 1259706031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to tell it what variables/what input is symbolic
< 1259706037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it tries that when finding bugs
< 1259706056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like argc/argv usually
< 1259706056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sometimes a specific variable directly in source
< 1259706080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that it would just say "generated one test case, on one path"
< 1259706085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh: #define TAPELENGTH 100663378
< 1259706091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's happening
< 1259706102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set the length of the tape to the area of the tape that gcc-bf can use
< 1259706106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that seems extremely long
< 1259706112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many mb is it?
< 1259706122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around 100
< 1259706127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259706150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96.000078201 MB, it seems
< 1259706159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf can access 16 MB of tape and 16 MB of stack
< 1259706166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right
< 1259706171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16+16 < 96
< 1259706180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are four bytes of bookkeeping for every byte of heap/stack
< 1259706186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant heap and stack
< 1259706198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every six bytes contains one heap, one stack, four bookkeeping
< 1259706199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 128 MB then
< 1259706209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 16*6 = 96MB
< 1259706213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1259706214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tiny extra amount is registers
< 1259706222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(16+16)*4?
< 1259706223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1259706228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259706239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one byte of heap and stack need four bytes of bookkeeping between them
< 1259706247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523,oh
< 1259706252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have one dedicated byte of bookkeeping each, and two between them, to be precise
< 1259706255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's an implementation detail
< 1259706256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(16+16)*2 ?
< 1259706273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16*6
< 1259706276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1259706282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how comes some are shared?
< 1259706329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I need to sleep
< 1259706346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every six bytes contains: one unused value (to keep locations a multiple of 6), mark pointer for the stack, stack data, stack/heap pointer, mark pointer for the heap, heap data
< 1259706359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where pointers are set to 1 if the pointer doesn't point there, or 0 otherwise
< 1259706371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stack/frame poitner
< 1259706373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointer
< 1259706377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the padding used by gcc-bf? none?
< 1259706378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be multiple frame pointers
< 1259706382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, no padding
< 1259706387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a waste of space
< 1259706391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1259706414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for bitfields up to a multiple of 8 bits, but you don't use those if you want the program to run at all efficiently
< 1259706424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the sizes of char/short/int/long/long long/float/double/long double ?
< 1259706446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in octets, 1/2/4/4/8/4/8/8
< 1259706460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1259706469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1259706469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double and long double are the same, as are int and long
< 1259706483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone seems to assume 32-bit int nowadays
< 1259706496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't bitfields be just turned into bitwise and/or?
< 1259706497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want as many existing programs as possible to compile unmodified
< 1259706499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1259706501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shifts
< 1259706502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, those are slow
< 1259706512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like my implementation of bitwise and and or
< 1259706522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves repeated multiplication by 128, IIRC
< 1259706569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, idea for next project: gcc-intercal
< 1259706581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compiling C to C-INTERCAL
< 1259706587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm likely to continue working on gcc-bf until at least such time as it can port C-INTERCAL to BF
< 1259706610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I doubt c-intercal will fit
< 1259706616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the memory
< 1259706618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 96MB?
< 1259706619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a lot
< 1259706628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that I grew up with floppy disk
< 1259706630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disks
< 1259706632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in 96 *inefficiently used* MB
< 1259706644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 16 MB stack, 16 MB heap, from the C program's point of view
< 1259706651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1259706652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*16 MiB
< 1259706663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and cfunge would burst that for heap at least
< 1259706666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for stac
< 1259706669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack*
< 1259706678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt if cfunge ever uses more than 1 MB stack
< 1259706681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's trying to store a giant hash table
< 1259706690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, giant static array too
< 1259706693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259706700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you got rid of the static array, or made it relatively small
< 1259706704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what sort of program uses 16MB *stack*?
< 1259706712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that recurses a lot
< 1259706717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that declares large arrays on the stack
< 1259706719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh"
< 1259706727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or especially, botbh
< 1259706729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both
< 1259706750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, will check cfunge stack and heap usage with massif tomorrow
< 1259706773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to all this trouble just to port cfunge to brainfuck?
< 1259706777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way
< 1259706784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1259706788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd gone mad for a moment
< 1259706791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, madder than normal
< 1259706799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no way I will try to port cfunge to anything non-POSIX.
< 1259706808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just way way too much work
< 1259706810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf is meant to be POSIX, eventually
< 1259706819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has quite a bit of POSIX already, via newlib
< 1259706822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. signals
< 1259706823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that day it might run cfunge *shrug*
< 1259706833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's single-process, though
< 1259706837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you call fork, you get EAGAIN
< 1259706849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what about mmap()?
< 1259706859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would actually be surprisingly easy
< 1259706862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the files are in memory anyway
< 1259706876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just be a wrapper around realloc
< 1259706882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh what
< 1259706893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would a read only mmap be a wrapper around realloc?
< 1259706907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read only means undefined behaviour if you try to write, doesn't it?
< 1259706911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about aio? I considered adding that to cfunge, just for the hell of it
< 1259706915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes.
< 1259706919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1259706927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aio wouldn't work, for the same reason forking doesn't work
< 1259706928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PROT_READ Pages may be read.
< 1259706943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, poll()?
< 1259706946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think anything explicitly bans allowing people to write if they just requested read access
< 1259706953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't remember what that one does
< 1259706961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about PROT_NONE?
< 1259706973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway you need to have a page size for mmap
< 1259706975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, poll would be rather degenerate
< 1259706977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your page size?
< 1259706981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, probably
< 1259706986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1259706988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to make it anything else
< 1259707003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm sure that will break something
< 1259707007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you can map to more than one page, IIRC
< 1259707022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page break has to be 1, I think
< 1259707030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that sbrk works on 1-byte granularity
< 1259707033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259707047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the implementation of sbrk is also rather fun, but nowhere near as fun as that of exit)
< 1259707050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two constants _SC_PAGESIZE and _SC_PAGE_SIZE may be defined to have the same value.
< 1259707051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1259707057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go team POSIX
< 1259707060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I can say
< 1259707080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "may be"
< 1259707094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah exactly the bit I referred to
< 1259707104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, here's probably the confusingest bit from the implementation to sbrk: static void* brk = &__brkpos;
< 1259707111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only works with gcc
< 1259707113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually make that "go austin group"
< 1259707114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1259707117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is "team posix"
< 1259707123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that brkpos is defined as extern void __brkpos;
< 1259707128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it only needs to work with gcc
< 1259707174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1259707183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about boehm-gc
< 1259707186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be ported
< 1259707216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else to allow gcc bootstrap
< 1259707217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1259707266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its entire method of operation wouldn't work
< 1259707276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that pointers and ordinary integers look very similar in gcc-bf
< 1259707290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, actually
< 1259707301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that stack and heap memory always starts 0x01 or 0x02
< 1259707307 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259707321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chance that an integer and a pointer clashed would be low enough that it probably would manage to actually collect something
< 1259707353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, libgcc
< 1259707357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you handle that
< 1259707361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it partly asm?
< 1259707364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259707367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1259707367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written entirely in C
< 1259707374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for all arches?
< 1259707385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except you can write bits of asm and they take precedence over it
< 1259707390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259707402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not all arches has everything?
< 1259707406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1259707416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need 64-bit division stuff there on x86-64
< 1259707429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1259707435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why its makefile is generated by script, I think
< 1259707439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore has to be patched by script
< 1259707460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one amusing fact: if you don't implement enough primitives to be able to implement all operations
< 1259707464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. no multiplication at all
< 1259707473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then libgcc goes into an infinite recursive loop
< 1259707477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's compiled into calls to itself
< 1259707506 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun
< 1259707533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : colordiff -Naur <(nm -D /lib32/libgcc_s.so.1 | grep ' T ' | cut -d' ' -f3- | sort -n) <(nm -D /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 | grep ' T ' | cut -d' ' -f3- | sort -n)
< 1259707535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1259707567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah
< 1259707589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't it do multiplication by addition?
< 1259707601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 8-bit, yes
< 1259707608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond 8-bit, that's hilariously inefficient
< 1259707621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it could do it in terms of the 8-bit
< 1259707624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in theory
< 1259707626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259707631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, it seems to screw up
< 1259707644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " beyond 8-bit, that's hilariously inefficient" <-- hah isn't that what gcc-bf does?
< 1259707648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1259707648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, gcc's incapable of comprehending that a system's only multiplier can only handle 8-bit numbers
< 1259707653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1259707655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no
< 1259707655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc-bf is surprisingly efficient, on an RLE system
< 1259707657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be
< 1259707728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about division
< 1259707739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of CPUs lacking integer division
< 1259707747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC12F* for example
< 1259707747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may well be special-cased
< 1259707759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you would use C for it
< 1259707762 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably not lacking a bit shift tho, right?
< 1259707765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any CPUs that /gcc targets/ that lack integer division?
< 1259707765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the limited memory
< 1259707771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, I forgot. it was years ago
< 1259707774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I coded for it
< 1259707790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an "embedded microcontroller" kind of thing
< 1259707794 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can use that shift to do division..
< 1259707799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, well yes
< 1259707817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, think it had 12 bit address space or something
< 1259707858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/41190E.pdf
< 1259707860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :datasheet
< 1259707891 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally started work on the bf interp for my wristwatch
< 1259707900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_, XD
< 1259707908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joking right?
< 1259707913 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259707916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT?
< 1259707938 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timex Datalink USB
< 1259707939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh?
< 1259707985 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timex_Datalink#Timex_Datalink_USB
< 1259708066 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be able to fit about 200 bf instructions in ram
< 1259708078 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using a simple 4 bit encoding)
< 1259708112 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered 3 bit, but the overhead isn't worth it
< 1259708136 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only buys like 20 more instructions
< 1259708298 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fun toy.. I once destabilized my watch running a program in my debugging app, and it took about 30 minutes before it finally reset, fortunately it did not beep
< 1259708332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long would the tape be?
< 1259708365 0 :FireFly|xchat!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259708383 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whatever is left from the program memory plus 24 bytes
< 1259708407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not going to be able to run very big BF programs, then
< 1259708432 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but that's okay because I'm not going to want to enter big programs using the crown of a wristwatch
< 1259708452 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259708455 0 :FireFly|xchat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly
< 1259708480 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it doesn't use ascii, programs would have to custom written for the watch
< 1259708528 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that and only being able to display 14 characters on one screen
< 1259708563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259708602 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari
< 1259708770 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259710410 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259712496 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259712783 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259713977 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259714140 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1259714271 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1259714435 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259717603 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259722566 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259722582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how is Square not the most completely idiotic thing ever conceived, exactly?
< 1259722644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1259722660 0 :augur!n=augur@68.33.240.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259722671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://squareup.com/
< 1259722679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess the receipts thing..
< 1259722731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's brilliant. It's the smallest device I've ever seen that a criminal could use to steal card numbers
< 1259723240 0 :augur_!n=augur@68.33.240.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259723558 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259725271 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259725978 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259726068 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259726292 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259726301 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259727961 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1259727961 0 :jpc1!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259728306 0 :jpc1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1259729528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259731302 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259733235 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259735297 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, that little square might emit encrypted data only decryptable by trusted software. It's not absolute security, of course.
< 1259735307 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-106-64.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259735346 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think it's not *that bad* if your credit card information is leaked to a bad guy.
< 1259735363 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let's see how common it ends up being, in practice, for people to steal information this way.
< 1259735920 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259736036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that uorygl is apparently not rot-anything
< 1259736810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259736930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259736965 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259737786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259737878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1259739206 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259740157 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259740619 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259740799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1259740800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259742291 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-11-29.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259742828 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259747263 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259747276 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259748654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259748738 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259759058 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your favorite number (modulo 7)?
< 1259759156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5
< 1259759179 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niiice
< 1259759189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your favourite colour (modulo three)?
< 1259759205 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very weird question, fizzie.
< 1259759223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had trouble deciding between "modulo three" and "modulo green" there.
< 1259759236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I take it as an RGBA quadruple and interpret it as a single 32-bit number modulo three, I get black
< 1259759279 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'd say black is my favorite color anyway, anything else needs the right hue to look nice
< 1259759320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait don't you also get invisible black?
< 1259759327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or which is transparent
< 1259759416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invisible colours are my favourite kind of colours.
< 1259759446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like letting other's choose
< 1259759449 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others
< 1259759452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If modulo green is modulo 0x00ff00ff, I get 0x004b384a which is some kind of semitransparent turquoise
< 1259759631 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the original
< 1259759673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo white
< 1259759686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#4b0082? That would give a non-transparent color.
< 1259759694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it looks a bit Deewianty maybe.
< 1259759717 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm pretty sure Deewiant would want some red in there
< 1259759731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has 0x4b blobs of red.
< 1259759742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By #4b0082 I mean 0x4b0082ff, of course.
< 1259759744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blobs?
< 1259759750 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right lol
< 1259759760 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sounds Deewianty
< 1259759771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you measure them as blobs. #ffffff has 768 blobs; that's all you can fit in one pixel.
< 1259759791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; that's good to know
< 1259759828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION believes
< 1259759856 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.answers.com/topic/blob-visual-system
< 1259759891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interblobs tell the difference between #ffffff and #ɟɟɟɟɟɟ
< 1259759934 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those f's turned upside down or somethign?
< 1259759936 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something
< 1259759976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean they are sensitive to orientation
< 1259760001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like only light from a certain angle hits them
< 1259760508 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely, since they're in the visual cortex
< 1259760508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol i just read the relevant sentence :P
< 1259760508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that long
< 1259762616 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259762684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259766644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I take it as an RGBA quadruple and interpret it as a single 32-bit number modulo three, I get black <-- only 8 bits per channel? :(
< 1259766666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and you didn't specify the gamut
< 1259766670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRGB?
< 1259766771 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259766775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1259766791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----###
< 1259766801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why?
< 1259766818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry you went so fast i thought you were a fly
< 1259766844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I liked the annotation this time
< 1259767187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1259769154 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259769180 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259769489 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259769491 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuurgh
< 1259769496 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to ehird
< 1259769728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a tragic accident involving cheddar, a moose and five ancient OSes
< 1259769750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ehird survived (barely), the cheddar did not.
< 1259770460 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259771075 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259771238 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-0-14.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259771577 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259771590 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259772443 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259772464 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259772532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what?!
< 1259772555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu developer's theory: the reason that my fscks keep getting stuck at 90% is that fsck isn't installed
< 1259772844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259772853 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259772941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/487744 (the person who said fsck wasn't installed reassigned the bug to mountall for some reason)
< 1259773849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Pong timeout: 180 seconds"
< 1259777447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fsck not installed
< 1259777448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1259777456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it is
< 1259777463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since when does ubuntu use first tire support staff
< 1259777463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1259777464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, that's a completely bogus comment from the developer
< 1259777496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you try a different fsck version from a livecd?
< 1259777502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259777507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too busy with other things
< 1259777507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1259777511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259777554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "first tire" typo immediately made me think of a Ubuntu supportperson balancing on a unicycle.
< 1259777570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unibuntu
< 1259777591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh, tier*
< 1259777793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unibuntu -- it's only got one wheel group member." That's the motto.
< 1259777838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, only root then?
< 1259777874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh there is no wheel in /etc/groups on januty?
< 1259777883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259777886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an "admin" group
< 1259777892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the group of people allowed to sudo, which comes to much the same thing
< 1259777903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root doesn't actually have a password, a wheel group would be kind-of pointless
< 1259777903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "wheel" is *traditional*
< 1259777908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why, but it is
< 1259777927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU su doesn't support wheel, because Stallman thought it was unfair for people to be unable to get root if they guessed the root password
< 1259777938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1259778049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also just do: chown root:wheel /bin/su && chmod 4710 /bin/su
< 1259778059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless I misremember mode needed for suid)
< 1259778077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod u+t,g+x,o-x
< 1259778093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that assumes the write/read perm is sane before
< 1259778101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why allow other people to read it?
< 1259778114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't actually need +r for group/others for suid binaries
< 1259778115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1259778137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: agreed
< 1259778145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand
< 1259778146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls -l /usr/bin/sudo
< 1259778146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---s--x--x 2 root root 143400 Jun 17 17:52 /usr/bin/sudo
< 1259778149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why not allow people to read it, given that GNU su binaries are easy enough to come by
< 1259778149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is rather unusual
< 1259778166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those perms look fine to me
< 1259778170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah they are
< 1259778177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, that means owner can't read it?
< 1259778215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root can read anything
< 1259778235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welll yes
< 1259778253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw for fsck, did you try running it manually at all?
< 1259778269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1259778271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, from init=/bin/busybox style of thing
< 1259778278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might be worth a try
< 1259778287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :livecd is best of course
< 1259778516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think the person in question did not read the bug properly
< 1259778518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1259778530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully someone else will bounce it back to the right thing
< 1259778532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only real explanation
< 1259778572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, otherwise you can try to change distro of course. This sort of thing generally doesn't happen with gentoo for example
< 1259778583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, bug reports tends to be responded to quickly with gentoo
< 1259778592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not *fixed* quickly always of course
< 1259778597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but response is fast
< 1259779012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what bug reporting tool btw?
< 1259779020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't aware such a thing existed
< 1259779072 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259779839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn*
< 1259780134 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259780433 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259780722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ubuntu-bug
< 1259780729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give it a pid or the name of a package
< 1259780734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it goes and attaches info to your bug report
< 1259781057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1259781072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pid of a program no longer running?
< 1259781079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case of a segfault)
< 1259781081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of one that's currently running
< 1259781086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get a segfault, you give the package name instead
< 1259781093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently running's for more minor bugs
< 1259782487 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259782794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1259782862 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259783118 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259783413 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok! :o
< 1259783744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259784033 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259784149 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259784236 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer
< 1259784271 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259785643 0 :Fredrik1994!n=FIQ@213-67-76-113-no52.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259785919 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1259786550 0 :FIQ!n=FIQ@213-67-76-113-no52.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259786573 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ismarriagelegalintexas.com/
< 1259786915 0 :jpc!n=jw@76.23.28.244 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259786966 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259787525 0 :Fredrik1994!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259787687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, finally got this FPGA evaluation board working
< 1259787687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's running a simple Verilog program that counts up to 2^32 repeatedly
< 1259787691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing the top four bits on LEDs
< 1259788269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how long does it take to count to 2^32?
< 1259788287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seconds? minutes?
< 1259788299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a few seconds to count to 2^28
< 1259788306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was running it from a relatively slow clock
< 1259788313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259788322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 2^32 is quite a bit bigger than 2^28 however
< 1259788329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just 16 times bigger
< 1259788340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I think that is quite a bit
< 1259788355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned 2^28 as it was the lowest observable number
< 1259788362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm?
< 1259788365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's more than a bit; something like four bits.
< 1259788375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, augh
< 1259788433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't a hello world be more.... traditional?
< 1259788435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four bits, and I had them all connected to LEDs
< 1259788436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a LCD maybe
< 1259788448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: traditional hello-world equivalent in embedded systems is flashing one LED
< 1259788451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was flashing four of them
< 1259788455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259788499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about using 7-(or more)-segment displays?
< 1259788514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TI DSP devboard had four leds too; we had those flashing in a KITT-from-Knight-Rider-y sort of pattern, with the sweep speed controllable with one of the four sliders we had in the "remote control" UI for the project.
< 1259788520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an LCD on the board, but not seven-segment-displays
< 1259788529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's about 12 LEDs on the board, but I only connected four of them
< 1259788542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an LCD would work
< 1259788546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better maybe
< 1259788555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if the docs said which pins on the board it was connected to
< 1259788557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't
< 1259788565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's... weird?
< 1259788576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bad docs?
< 1259788593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspiciously bad; in fact, I'd say deliberately bad
< 1259788600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1259788601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want you to buy a complicated configuration program
< 1259788611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does all the connection for you so you don't have to look at pinouts
< 1259788626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I see. Why not call them and ask for pinout instead and see what they say?
< 1259788638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't accept queries from students
< 1259788639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and... how hard would it be to reverse engineer it?
< 1259788642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :II think we might've had some sort of "flicker the leds when it gets a parameter update from the remote control" feature, so in that sense the leds weren't completely useless.
< 1259788647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually thought of reverse-engineering
< 1259788660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, talk to a non-student about this? teacher or whatever
< 1259788664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be kind-of hard
< 1259788692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my professor's trying to find out the pinout at the moment, apparently
< 1259788692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259788716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would it be hard? could something break?
< 1259788731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because there are thousands of pins, connected to all sorts of thigns
< 1259788737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259788738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you send output to an input pin, bad things happen
< 1259788748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right
< 1259788754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the leds were documented?
< 1259788771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259788774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259788790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is another reason I'm suspicious, btw
< 1259788900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware's like that; stick to software, and you'll never have to... uh, worry about... bad documentation... wait, I don't think that's actually true.
< 1259788951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least with software usually you can have a backup if you make smoke come out of it when experimenting.
< 1259788969 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1259788997 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790225 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790283 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259790410 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259790410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259790410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259790411 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259790411 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790421 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790579 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259790606 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259790657 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790664 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259790857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie`, yeah true
< 1259790898 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer
< 1259790918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would reading on an output pin do bad stuff?
< 1259790947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, you just get garbage
< 1259790953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you could try all inputs and see what ones are inputs (that you can trigger at least)
< 1259790967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess two way communication channels wouldn't be found that way)
< 1259790979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming the chip needs to trigger *first*)
< 1259790993 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259791251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1259791253 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1259791290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not use some other product instead?
< 1259791302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're considering that
< 1259791323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any luck for the prof in finding the pinout?
< 1259791323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one was donated to us free (suspicious in of itself), so we have it to hand
< 1259791323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I haven't heard anything
< 1259791325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259791366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is donations to universities suspicious?
< 1259791377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it's clearly an advertising ploy
< 1259791388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get us using their products when we leave, rather than a competitor's
< 1259791392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're more used to them
< 1259791400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1259791409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we can't get the peripherals working, though, it's possible that ploy will backfire :)
< 1259791419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1259791595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I guess MSDNAA is the same basic idea?
< 1259791600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259791690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, IMO MSDNAA backfires *badly*
< 1259791706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? I have an MSDNAA subscription in theory but I've never used it
< 1259791712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even asked for a password for it
< 1259791734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because I learnt that Windows 7 need like 7 GB hd space for a minimal clean install
< 1259791740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, really?
< 1259791746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it was x64
< 1259791753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess 32-bit is a bit less
< 1259791755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much
< 1259791778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 64-bit ubuntu install fits in much less and comes with way more useful programs
< 1259791788 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259791813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, office suite, compiler, vector graphics editor, "better than paint" bitmap editor (gimp)
< 1259791815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1259791832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they're planning to remove GIMP from a default install (making it an installable package like most other programs)
< 1259791839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that it's rather more powerful than most people need
< 1259791841 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259791843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1259791857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, xp x64 needs around 2.5 GB iirc
< 1259791860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more reasonable
< 1259791860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Kolourpaint installed as a better-than-paint image editor
< 1259791869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, krita is good I heard
< 1259791879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's KDE, and I'm not sure if there's a similarly-featured Gnome program
< 1259791882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kolourpaint is useless to me
< 1259791890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kolourpaint is just paint with more features
< 1259791894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not many more
< 1259791915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about krita. It supports non-RGB, which gimp still doesn't
< 1259791929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it lacks many of the useful photo editing features of gimp
< 1259791942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems more intended for artists that draw stuff
< 1259791959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep imagining someone using a wacom pad or such with it
< 1259792177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and the downloader app sucks
< 1259792178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for MSDNAA
< 1259792192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it run under Linux?
< 1259792198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses CRC at the end it says, yet usually results in bad downloads
< 1259792199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no
< 1259792227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wine said something about missing MSIE activex embedding galore thingy
< 1259792234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1259792249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I don't think the word "galore" was there
< 1259792275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259792317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, the number 9 in minesweeper
< 1259792320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work out
< 1259792336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects foul play or possibly a bug
< 1259792364 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1259792533 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259792673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, night. I have an early day tomorrow
< 1259792705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh that was probably a Swedishism too)
< 1259792715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, same idiom's used in English
< 1259792720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost
< 1259792727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1259792729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you've said there is subtly different from what we say here, but I'm not entirely sure what
< 1259792747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it may be "early morning" in Swedish
< 1259792752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1259792758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tidig morgon" rather
< 1259792758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye anyway
< 1259792762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1259792763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1259793025 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259793207 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259793394 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259794705 0 :Oranjer!i=62470061@gateway/web/freenode/x-ahvvcbzkwmqsyira JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259794738 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1259795062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the :O?
< 1259795147 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1259795153 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Oranjer
< 1259795175 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola
< 1259795372 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259795404 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259795446 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1259795457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259795462 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O is just my greeting here, as I am almost always confused
< 1259795973 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259796050 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259796941 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck has 20x more users than D
< 1259796946 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.spoj.pl/ranks/languages/
< 1259797847 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259800181 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259801125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: Good :P
< 1259801159 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'SUP DAWG I HEARD YOU LIKE UPGRADES SO WE PUT AN UPGRADE IN YOUR X SO NOW YOU HAVE TO REBOOT BECAUSE THE PROTOCOL CHANGED BACKWARD-INCOMPATIBLY.
< 1259801167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( a few weeks back)
< 1259801193 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my boss made a reference to Brainfuck a few days back
< 1259801208 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is kinda a techy type so it's not that ridiculous
< 1259801224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so he wasn't talking about the sex act
< 1259801342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't heard of that one being done.
< 1259801526 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's very common
< 1259801530 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skullfuck is the more popular term
< 1259801647 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, being done, rather than being talked about
< 1259801664 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine it's difficult to find a willing partner
< 1259801694 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1259803056 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: who said they had to be willing?
< 1259803075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the concept pretty much precludes willingness.
< 1259803113 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the people who let themselves be eaten would allow it
< 1259806311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259808616 0 :madbrain!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259808671 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read about the halting problem... the proof of impossibility is so nasty :D
< 1259809098 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259809262 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasty ?
< 1259809265 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1259809323 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, basically they proved you can't solve the halting problem by writing a program that generates a paradox if you try to do that
< 1259809339 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically something like:
< 1259809383 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can solve the halting problem, then you have a function solve_halting_problem(program)
< 1259809400 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can write a program like this:
< 1259809480 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program p = { if solve_halting_program(p) true then loop_indefinitely(), else stop}
< 1259809532 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in other words it uses the potential solution on itself, determines if it's halting, if it's halting then don't halt, if it's not halting then halt
< 1259809604 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but than that means your solve_halting_program() function cannot return either true or false for that particular program because then the program uses the solution to prove it false
< 1259809869 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1259809924 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program := if halts(program) then loop else return
< 1259809983 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259809985 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have
< 1259809993 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program(p) := if halts(p) then loop else return
< 1259809998 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you ask if halts(program(program))
< 1259810079 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm not sure I beleive this
< 1259810190 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my language was just if/then/else, return, CAR, CDR, etc.. then every program terminates -- now if you add the loop keyword, you can define 'program' but you should be able to define halts quite easily too
< 1259810227 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(suppose the language only allowed well founded recursion)
< 1259810313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: ... "Well-founded recursion"?
< 1259810329 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are allowed to loop on smaller inputs than what you were given only
< 1259810349 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that every function (that's execution doesn't reach any "loop") terminates
< 1259810368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you intend to enforce such a restriction?
< 1259810398 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter really, you could do it syntactially or give the programmer the benefit of the doubt
< 1259810435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And for that matter, what does "smaller inputs" mean?
< 1259810460 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the inpute was the program "if halts(program) then loop else return" then "loop" is smaller (because it is a subterm)
< 1259810498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm more confused than I was previously.
< 1259810598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I also wonder what about that restricts the following: S(x,y,z) := z(y,z(y)); K(x,y) := x
< 1259810733 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean S(x,y,z) := x(z)(y(z))
< 1259810753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, yes I do.
< 1259810827 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that program passes the recursion scheme (since it doesn't use recursion) but it is an error because it's not well typed
< 1259810885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't it well-typed?
< 1259810916 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point is that you're basically imposing limitations that make the resulting language not turing complete
< 1259810939 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is not turing complete because of (1) the types (2) the allowed recursion scheme
< 1259810993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: What sort of ridiculous restriction on the type system *could you do* to make that not well-typed?
< 1259811010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: My point is that that's bloody hard without making something that's completely and utterly useless.
< 1259811020 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true!
< 1259811023 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you are one of these pragmatists
< 1259811056 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing up my idea now to see if I am right
< 1259811094 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best languages are the ones that are turing complete with the least number of instructions/operators/etc... :D
< 1259811094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: By "useful", I mean "capable of non-trivial calculation".
< 1259811113 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of non trivial calculuation?
< 1259811129 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll try and work it in if possible)
< 1259811158 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulate brainfuck? :D
< 1259811177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, functions that do more than mere arithmetic?
< 1259811179 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can't be turing complete :P
< 1259811201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps... Hmm. Matrix multiplication?
< 1259811213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that's even a bit trivial.
< 1259812015 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259812482 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really hard to make this language ...ars
< 1259812492 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259814488 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-144-54.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259815075 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259815829 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259815862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1259816304 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259816947 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1259817159 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-34-16-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259817375 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259819070 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1259819588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1259821676 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259822192 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259823376 0 :lifthrasiir!i=pxdwlfdb@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259823410 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259823445 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain,
< 1259823447 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : program p = { if solve_halting_program(p) true then loop_indefinitely(), else stop}
< 1259823451 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be:
< 1259823459 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : program p = { if solve_halting_program(p(p)) true then loop_indefinitely(), else stop}
< 1259823461 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1259823660 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I figured out a language (that has nontermination) which has solve_halting_program as a built in, but I couldn't find a language which it's possible to implement solve_halting_program in (yet?)
< 1259823697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about non-trivial ones, so we can't have solve_halting_program(_) = true
< 1259823940 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1259823964 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUNNO ???
< 1259823983 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what to think or say
< 1259824007 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1259824512 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, I have been thinking about this a lot
< 1259824527 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sense of wha tyou said
< 1259824581 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I just looked up a website about the halting problem proof and went "that is neat"
< 1259824589 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's it
< 1259824680 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1259824697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't really want to think about it beyond that I guess
< 1259824802 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1259825662 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur"
< 1259825735 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259825757 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259825786 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucked :/
< 1259826635 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-189-194.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259826705 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bsmntbombdood
< 1259826711 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1259826851 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The halting problem describes why computers can't easily avoid crashing, or rather, why they can't predict when they are about to crash and ..." BULLSHIT!
< 1259826897 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1259826924 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain was talking about halting problem and got me interested but he's to busy/smart/clever to talk to me about it
< 1259827199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1259827200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259827604 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood I got snow crash
< 1259827684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w93Z1M2r7SA
< 1259827711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: BTW, the halting problem is actually solvable for commonly available computers. (theoretically, not practically)
< 1259827715 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have loved to see sabbath back then
< 1259827745 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because commonly available computers have finite memory, etc
< 1259827747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hooray, not actually having Turing machines)
< 1259827874 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes something like 2**n memory though on a von neumann with n bits of ram
< 1259827891 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more time
< 1259827940 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get simply typed lambda calculus and add booleans (and if) and omega (some diverging term), you can also add a halts function (but not implement it in this language, it has to be implemented in the interpreter)
< 1259827972 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iommi's a fucking beast
< 1259828171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Sounds about right.
< 1259828189 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about adding (typed) codes for terms of the language and recursion operators for them, but there's bubbles that don't go away so it doesn't seem to work. maybe something first order would work (yuo can only have base types on the left of an arrow)
< 1259828237 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to end up with a language that can express its own halting predicate but not the liar program
< 1259828267 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing about the liar program afaict that actually has anything to do with turing completenss
< 1259828969 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I right ? wrong ? just totally trivial observation ??
< 1259830319 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259835335 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259836636 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259837605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259838553 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840542 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840542 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840543 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840543 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840544 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840545 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840547 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840547 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840547 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840547 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840548 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840548 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840549 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840549 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840549 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840550 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840550 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840551 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840551 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840551 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840552 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840640 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840640 0 :sunrider!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840641 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840641 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259840654 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-189-194.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :lifthrasiir!i=pxdwlfdb@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-144-54.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840654 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840679 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840697 0 :mycrofti1!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840702 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840749 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1259840760 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1259840805 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259840930 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259840947 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259841126 0 :sunrider!n=kosmic@unaffiliated/spice JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259841567 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-qbvdfjifjkeimpjl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259842751 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259843502 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1259843628 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259844349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought for the day: Oh, definitely. C++ may not be the worst programming language ever created, but without a doubt it's the worst ever to be taken seriously.
< 1259844699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1259846337 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-239.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259847015 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259848407 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259850892 0 :adu!n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259851317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1259851827 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1259852733 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259853069 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259853269 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259853371 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259853876 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259854011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it takes something like 2**n memory though on a von neumann with n bits of ram
< 1259854046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you only need a slight amount of extra memory. what you need is 2**n _time_ however
< 1259854142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(double memory or so to do a step count, i think)
< 1259854164 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1259854338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1259854403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is this operation that takes 2**n timer?
< 1259854406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time*
< 1259854422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halting check for a finite machine
< 1259854443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by some other machine)
< 1259854474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1259854494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2**n is the maximum amount of steps before it starts repeating itself
< 1259854582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to get field width correct for printf() when using utf-8. Basically stuff like %10s checks bytes
< 1259854587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259854588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actual chars
< 1259854758 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1259855157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: %10R in Plan 9 C, "give up" otherwise.
< 1259855180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wprintf() and setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "")
< 1259855181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that worked
< 1259855187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1259855188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course now I have to deal with wchar_t instead
< 1259855193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is no fun
< 1259855224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, issue: this code is supposed to be portable C89 though
< 1259855235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly even work on windows (ugh)
< 1259855260 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259855339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Give up.
< 1259855366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1259855374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only C99 possesses functioning UTF-8 support.
< 1259855385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maybe a C89/C99 polygot?
< 1259855388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with preprocessor
< 1259855394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Plan 9 C.
< 1259855398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it breaks char constants
< 1259855400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, they invented UTF-8.
< 1259855403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like L"åäö"
< 1259855411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is L for wchar_t
< 1259855418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods'
< 1259855439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way I can use the preprocessor to add/get rid of it I think
< 1259855446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can't think of one at least
< 1259855484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible with the C preprocessor.
< 1259855533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed
< 1259855543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a macro maybe? to do L/non-L
< 1259855548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wouldn't work
< 1259855556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string is no identifier
< 1259855566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ## is out of question
< 1259856127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: D&D expanded strip >_<
< 1259856231 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259856241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1259857181 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259857557 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259857807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unable to get wide char ncurses working
< 1259857835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just outputs *nothing*. It blanks the screen to put it in that cursor addressing mode (as expected) but then nothing else works (not expected)
< 1259859683 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@174-137-229-165.ip.tor.radiant.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259860580 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.105.159.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259860970 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mycroftiv
< 1259861785 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, hows everyone doing?
< 1259861864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same thing we do every day poiuy_qwert
< 1259861882 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tring to take over the world?
< 1259861889 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying*
< 1259861899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can neither confirm nor deny that
< 1259861956 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1259862889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259864175 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, it must be a bit annoying to write your nick every time you login somewhere?
< 1259864197 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, very easy
< 1259864236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I see the pattern of course, but I've never liked writing qwerty on qwerty, I think it's easier to write a word where the keys are evenly distributed between the hands and so on
< 1259864303 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just slide my finger along the buttons, so its almost like only pressing 3 keys, p... _ q...
< 1259864321 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use a 10 finger approach
< 1259864324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries that and it just feels _wrong_
< 1259864330 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1259864407 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrcgfZåäöpy
< 1259864418 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, I forgot I'm not using Qwerty
< 1259864431 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have the physical keys setup like that
< 1259864436 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgets
< 1259864649 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1259866203 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh i see
< 1259866211 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't need to check for repeating states at all
< 1259866257 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259866297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly, no
< 1259867282 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259870175 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259870849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259871511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well i just slide my finger along the buttons, so its almost like only pressing 3 keys, p... _ q... <-- you have a laptop or possibly a flat desktop keyboard I presume?
< 1259871533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way sliding works well on anything like a classical PC keyboard
< 1259871578 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a MacBook pro, which is one of the less easy keyboards to slide along, but i've only seen like 1 keyboard in person that couldn't do it effectively
< 1259871599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, I was thinking along the lines of "model m"
< 1259871623 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is, gotta google it :P
< 1259871629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, svorak?
< 1259871653 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes those ones. who has those anymore? ;P
< 1259871655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, think "clicky keyboard"
< 1259871672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, well I have something similar but not clicky. Membrane sadly
< 1259871687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is impossible to slide on it
< 1259871716 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, well i still dont even find it bad to type my name, but thats probably because i'm more of a two finger typer
< 1259871722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that type of membrane
< 1259871729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubber caps I meant
< 1259871735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :below the real keys
< 1259871756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, "dome switch" is the real name
< 1259871770 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, correct
< 1259871780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to mix them up
< 1259871781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo
< 1259871792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, two fingers? eww
< 1259871809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION use four on each hand usually. Sometimes all
< 1259871836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, next I guess you are going to say you aren't touch typing!
< 1259871836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four on each hand, thumbs for space
< 1259871847 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumbs for other stuff is impossible :P
< 1259871852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, well yes I included "thumb for space" with those four
< 1259871857 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1259871858 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its not really two fingers, i just use my index fingers A LOT
< 1259871875 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've started to touch type since I switched over to Svorak
< 1259871876 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch typing>
< 1259871889 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forced myself to learning it at the same time, when I was anyway relearning it from scratch
< 1259871905 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, wikipedia it, it's some "rules" for which fingers to use for which buttons
< 1259871932 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thats lame ;P
< 1259871943 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually just columns.. the index fingers are for six letter keys each, the rest are for three each
< 1259871957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, no it isn't
< 1259871961 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1259871964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those are a part of it
< 1259871980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant it in the sense of not having to look at the keyboard to type
< 1259871987 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1259871988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the other part of it
< 1259871995 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've done that a long time anyway
< 1259871996 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it the one where they tell you to start with your fingers all position on a,s,d,f,space space,j,k,l,;?
< 1259872009 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the home row
< 1259872013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you do that anyway?
< 1259872021 0 :|MigoMipo|!i=kvirc@95.209.56.159.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259872021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really, not when using emacs
< 1259872027 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i do it somewhat, but i find it easier to just go with the flow
< 1259872031 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing <-- that image there tells most of it (about the layout related stuff, that is)
< 1259872059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they should stop using slanted rows IMO
< 1259872062 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually stay with my fingers at aoeu htns (the dvorak home row), much more than I did when I used Qwerty
< 1259872069 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory agrees with you, AnMaster
< 1259872078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, oh?
< 1259872099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also s/rows/columns/
< 1259872100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1259872112 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slanted rows would be really, really strange
< 1259872125 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1259872132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, s/strange/so ergonomic you can charge the double price/
< 1259872156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously I think a split keyboard would be really nice
< 1259872160 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean something like http://www.ergoff.se/produkter/ez_reach ?
< 1259872170 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the columns that is.
< 1259872190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe. I think that key placement looks strange
< 1259872221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory, I was considering qwerty or dvorak style but not slanted columns.
< 1259872232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if slanted, slanted symetrically
< 1259872242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around the middle
< 1259872454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants an model m terminal keyboard
< 1259872460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? Just because it looks so impressive
< 1259872498 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1259872512 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright im gone, later!
< 1259872515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya
< 1259872521 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259873151 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259874163 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1259874170 0 :jpc!n=jw@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259874642 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259874675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1259875109 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259875119 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259875152 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1259875372 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: chebyshev's inequality is actually one of my this week's homework problems :D
< 1259875377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you read logs
< 1259875394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually even if you don't
< 1259875420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1259875513 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259875516 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garliccccccccccc
< 1259875774 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259875925 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@79.138.181.102.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259876243 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259876288 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259876961 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1259877125 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259877253 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259878298 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo"
< 1259878339 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259879020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, agreed
< 1259879063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garlic is one of the most important, nay fundamental, components of a well balanced and well designed meal
< 1259879201 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1259879223 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there after my nickname.
< 1259879229 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259879233 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ere/ere's some fly droppings/
< 1259879238 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie
< 1259879297 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259879324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh mouse speed
< 1259879325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is odd
< 1259879338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when switching client/servers of synergy
< 1259879362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop speed is fine, desktop speed is too fast
< 1259880462 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259880955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1259881111 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259881250 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259881516 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1259882164 0 :Tomsik_!n=Tomsik@bbs170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259882218 0 :Aedolon!n=jonas@82-168-4-18.ip.telfort.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259882651 0 :Aedolon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN HAZ STDIO?
< 1259882846 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Aedolon STDIO
< 1259883866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also the proof is a one-liner
< 1259884395 0 :Tomsik_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Thus spoke Tomsik"
< 1259884628 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever made an IRC bot written in an esoteric language?
< 1259884647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1259884654 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language?
< 1259884973 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L33t?
< 1259885070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's fungot, he's written in Funge-98.
< 1259885071 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i've been into c++ quite fnord, by state fnord?
< 1259885080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1259885080 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1259885090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's them codes.
< 1259885141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could count him doubly or triply esoteric, since in addition to the implementation language, he interprets Brainfuck and Underload too.
< 1259885245 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is pretty esoteric
< 1259885263 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1259885408 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1259885432 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my goal is to make an IRC bot in an esoteric language
< 1259885722 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well have a nice afternoon with that :)
< 1259886074 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wont be too hard
< 1259886075 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses debian
< 1259886090 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have made openoffice impossible to install
< 1259886117 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried uninstalling it to fix some weird dependancy things
< 1259886121 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I can't re-install it
< 1259886144 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks
< 1259886234 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1259886237 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what's up
< 1259886260 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mysql-common 5.1.37-2" conflicts with...
< 1259886262 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITSELF!
< 1259886274 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I get aptitude to ignore this fact
< 1259886894 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259887375 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259887465 0 :Oranjer!n=HP_Admin@adsl-71-0-97.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259890408 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"What are you sinking about?"
< 1259890435 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259890729 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259890738 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259890932 0 :Aedolon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"
< 1259890945 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259890950 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259891519 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259891836 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1259893216 0 :augur!n=augur@66.92.145.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259893680 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-108-52.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259894312 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259894542 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1259894566 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the solution was wget and dpkg -i for 2 of the packages, BTW)
< 1259894686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259895402 0 :augur!n=augur@66.92.145.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259895441 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259898718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259899702 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259899727 0 :lifthrasiir!i=J03gwNOx@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259900628 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259901028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259902127 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259904551 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1259906158 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259907838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(01:31:40 AM) <>: I don't know if its more messed up that its trying to compile Python.h or that it is trying to compiler Python.h
< 1259907842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1259907849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(01:31:11 AM) <>: SystemError: Cannot compiler 'Python.h'.
< 1259907851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that
< 1259907888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot parser sentence
< 1259908774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1259913599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1259913600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259916392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259919492 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259952562 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259952562 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259952573 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259952626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog
< 1259952630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have devised a disturbingly crazy language.
< 1259952638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rather, prototype-language.
< 1259952680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives you a false sense of normality, then piles the WTF on you. It's not an esolang, but only because it's too dastardly for that.
< 1259952879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: this is relevant to you, as it's sort of dependently typed
< 1259953064 0 :lifthrasiir!i=mtHo0rFt@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259953065 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259953391 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259953398 0 :lifthrasiir!i=gLAQH63y@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259953499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/728558.txt?key=u4gd8tswifanismyu9dusg yes, I know the syntax is fugly
< 1259953550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/728561.txt?key=niy1z20jplxlhak9uy8ya just realised i don't need the dots
< 1259953652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wut
< 1259953658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tell me about a prototype language :D
< 1259953664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prototype as in unformed
< 1259953670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in prototypical, though it is sort of that
< 1259953674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more composition-based, though
< 1259953681 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh ok
< 1259953685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1259953686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has dependent types
< 1259953688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1259953697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no type/variable namespace dichotomy
< 1259953705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no compile/runtime variable existence dichotomy
< 1259953719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so types exist in the single namespace, at compile time and at run time, simple as
< 1259953723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, http://pastie.org/728561.txt?key=niy1z20jplxlhak9uy8ya is the hideous abomination in question
< 1259953733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows off one or two off the "unique" features
< 1259953742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that that's incomplete see e.g. thee comment about *
< 1259953745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syntax is very first-draft
< 1259953746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1259953832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ret contents/ret elems/
< 1259953851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/728566.txt?key=gv9hd8rlldampcr5j0r3og
< 1259953859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all the mistakes i'm making, i need to sleep :)
< 1259953865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn, another one
< 1259953892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://pastie.org/728567.txt?key=dosixl4rjiqvmdqaefrna this, finally, should have no dumb mistakes
< 1259953981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting elements there are rather subtle, and fuck my life, i just found another error
< 1259954004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/728571.txt?key=zl2af7lovf0knbe3avpw
< 1259954004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good lord.
< 1259954201 0 :lifthras1ir!i=sLLNO9GA@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259954206 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259956295 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259956307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer problems:
< 1259956308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic276368.html
< 1259956397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice.
< 1259956785 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259957006 0 :lifthrasiir!i=MA85lEZj@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259958207 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259958540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you tomorrow.
< 1259958546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1259959013 0 :lifthras1ir!i=Xw3b2g23@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259959459 0 :lifthras2ir!i=Spt7XTDV@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259959460 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259959812 0 :lifthras1ir!i=Bxbf2epR@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259959812 0 :lifthras2ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259960094 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259960223 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259961568 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259961608 0 :lifthrasiir!i=irt6N6Um@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259962052 0 :lifthras1ir!i=BMWRc9Fg@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259962053 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259963055 0 :lifthrasiir!i=x3yD3Zkf@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259963055 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259963446 0 :lifthras1ir!i=Pav30IOe@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259963461 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259964111 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1259964493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259965071 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1259965928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259966763 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259966834 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259967122 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259967247 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lifthrasiir
< 1259967297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259968084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1259968156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259968507 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259968548 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259968885 0 :lifthrasiir!i=WyH9uAHy@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259969581 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259969645 0 :lifthras1ir!i=Zmwu7o7U@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259969646 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259970856 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259971724 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259971726 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey
< 1259973644 0 :lifthrasiir!i=GBdaGWc0@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259973664 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259973954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259974709 0 :lifthras1ir!i=BzNqq9YZ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259974710 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259977101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1259977294 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259977295 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hfRlINoO@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259977473 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-234.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259977736 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1259977740 0 :lifthrasiir!i=EkK5J6nH@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259978370 0 :lifthras1ir!i=uwepuFhC@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259978424 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259978760 0 :lifthras2ir!i=xHjka2nm@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259979019 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259979500 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259980613 0 :lifthras2ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1259984368 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1259984378 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259984598 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1259985300 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259985886 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259989334 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259993197 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259996604 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259996740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :)
< 1259996748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1259996755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me what it was about
< 1259996758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it so long ago
< 1259996783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :president allosaurus agreed the world wasn't a strange place
< 1259996832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1259996909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i can only find 27 ninjas
< 1259996921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1259996953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can't find any
< 1259996960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHOOSH*
< 1259996981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I understood that... I was just continuing the joke
< 1259997073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with AnMaster you never know whether there is a *WHOOSH* or not. just like ninjas.
< 1259997407 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-19-16.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259997434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true
< 1259997461 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-5-248.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259998584 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1259999087 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259999648 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.237.227 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1259999680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close encounters of the Hird kind.
< 1259999713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21:17 Stony Brook O_O
< 1259999713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21:20 oh right
< 1259999713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21:29 you're a cunt, now i remember
< 1259999713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me, don't you go there too
< 1259999719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NECROLOGREAD
< 1259999818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:46:33 Asztal, my family name is of that type for example. But with a bit unusual spelling
< 1259999818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norlander ~= north land/country?
< 1259999841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:50:23 "KuraMoto" literally means storage-basis for example
< 1259999841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good name for a file hosting company.
< 1259999855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, north = nord/norr and land/country = land
< 1259999865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so well, yeah spelling was changed somewhat
< 1259999876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is boring because you can mostly just pretend it's mangled English and figure out a lot :)
< 1259999881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German even moreso
< 1259999899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again I guess that's all languages that English raped
< 1259999911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you stole my reply :/
< 1259999949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice to have such a whore of a native language, though, for that utility :D
< 1259999955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1259999999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260000000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260000017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:25 btw what is 1/INFINITY in double floating point?
< 1260000017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:44 Assuming IEC 60559 conformance of course
< 1260000017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> 1 / (1/0) :: Double
< 1260000018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0
< 1260000027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a smiley
< 1260000035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I AM SHOCKED AT YOUR INTENT"
< 1260000038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1260000048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci is pretty strict with its ieee floating point i believe
< 1260000113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, just because i explained google's new home page thing that doesn't mean i agree with it
< 1260000121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i, too, find it irritating
< 1260000153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1260000155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Starting this week, when we have high confidence that your query was misspelled, we go a step further than asking "Did you mean..." by automatically showing results for the corrected query, saving you a click. In case we did misinterpret the query, there will be a link at the top of the results to undo the auto-correction. So, the next time I'm visiting South Florida and accidentally search for [maimi restaurants], it's reassuring to know I'll quickly go
< 1260000155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight to the results for what I really meant: Miami restaurants.]]
< 1260000159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about time
< 1260000351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they already do that?
< 1260000363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they showed a preview of the results
< 1260000370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way, if they have a high confidence of an error
< 1260000374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, okay
< 1260000376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they show only the fixed results
< 1260000378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an option to undo
< 1260000384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7ZYqYi4xigk/Sxb_MsMIxyI/AAAAAAAAFC0/IqU_3tGQCUU/s1600-h/barcode_mockup_fade.gif ;; i have to admit though, this is hot
< 1260000424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was _already_ finding google's tendency to second-guess me occasionally annoying :(
< 1260000454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop whining and use grep query /the/internet.
< 1260000463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google is clever; its suggestions are usually good.
< 1260000554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yahoo! Selects Google as Search Engine Provider" —2000 (http://www.google.com/corporate/timeline/images/photos/XBD_HP_20000711.png)
< 1260000569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yahoo! Selects Yahoo! as Search Engine Provider" —?
< 1260000573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yahoo! Selects Bing as Search Engine Provider" —2009
< 1260001338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:06 1/inf == 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...............1
< 1260001338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:10 i guess
< 1260001338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:14 the dots represent infinite 0's
< 1260001338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at mathematics forever.
< 1260001364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:17:42 0.999999999999.................. rounds to 1!
< 1260001364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die.
< 1260001412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:22:05 0.33333... given that ... is "continue forever" is *exactly* 1/3. Multiplying it with 3 will *not* yield 0.999..., but exactly 1
< 1260001412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail
< 1260001413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general when somebody that young fails to understand something I don't think it's fair to say "forever", it's quite likely they'll understand it some time in the future
< 1260001421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.333.... * 3 = 0.999... = 1
< 1260001430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.333... = 1/3
< 1260001433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3 * 3 = 1
< 1260001434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore
< 1260001438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.999... = 1
< 1260001446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.333... * 3 does very well equal 0.999...
< 1260001451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm allowed to memeify.
< 1260001467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the word "forever" a meme now?
< 1260001489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail memes forever
< 1260001520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "you fail X forever" is a meme
< 1260001536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1260001541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:39:49 otherwise casting to (bool) should make it well defined
< 1260001541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:40:16 there is a bool type?
< 1260001542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:40:34 in C99 yes
< 1260001542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:40:36 in C89 no
< 1260001542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect; there is a _Bool type. There is also , which contains `#define bool _Bool`.
< 1260001576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:53 To me Wave is an experiment by Google to see how long they can hold the attention of people with a product that makes no sense.
< 1260001576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:56 Discuss.
< 1260001576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's accidentally that
< 1260001592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they came up with some reasonable ideas, built it, and then realised that is the only way for it to survive
< 1260001601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they accidentally the sense
< 1260001824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:53 what about three "that" then?
< 1260001824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That that that's property, that's property.
< 1260001831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's isn't really that.
< 1260001865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:09:28 oklofok, what about: "using that that that construct outside contrived examples is really irritating"?
< 1260001865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that that is perfectly proper English. as is had had.
< 1260001875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He had had that that sucks before, but this time was different."
< 1260001933 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260001985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:52:07 where can i find any source code for BSD dc
< 1260001985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/
< 1260002019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:10:38 happy australian mailman reminders day!
< 1260002019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Australian Mailman Mailing List Reminders Day
< 1260002046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:14:50 this is your last day of being a teenager, ever
< 1260002047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think being 19 is actually possible
< 1260002051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do you ever hear of someone being 19
< 1260002056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone is just in a void while they are 19
< 1260002085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:20:03 asiekierka: if you want to port a light dc, maybe you have more luck with p9p version
< 1260002086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1260002103 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember being 19, so it must be a lie
< 1260002119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:20:44 i think this one may roughly be related to the unix v7 one
< 1260002120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:21:02 yup
< 1260002120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:21:16 it is a port of (probably a bit newer) the version from unix v7
< 1260002120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a port of Plan 9's dc to POSIX with Plan 9 libraries.
< 1260002133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's dc was probably derived from Tenth Edition Unix, being its official successor.
< 1260002141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i most certainly remember being 19. possibly the best life in my year so far.
< 1260002147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1260002154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*year in my life
< 1260002183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd be happier if you didn't spend all your time mentioning how gloomy you are
< 1260002188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that that is perfectly proper English. as is had had. <-- yes, but still takes more work to parse than average.
< 1260002219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:38 girls are always like uhh big day let's cuddle
< 1260002219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:24:04 oklofok, anything wrong with that?
< 1260002220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:24:49 well it's against the tradition.
< 1260002220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok representin'
< 1260002222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _don't_ remember spending all my time mentioning how gloomy i am, however
< 1260002258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:35 line 814
< 1260002258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:35 Blk* div(Blk *ddivd, Blk *ddivr)
< 1260002258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:35 3 "variable identifier expected"
< 1260002259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:35 and 2 "undefined symbol:" one for 'ddivd' and one for 'ddivr'
< 1260002259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blk isn't defined
< 1260002260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef mistake
< 1260002295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:21:47 just write a new backend for llvm, and some system specific header files and you are done
< 1260002296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 k memory
< 1260002309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say llvm would run *on* it
< 1260002313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then :P
< 1260002315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm is a perfectly good cross compiler
< 1260002503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to try to avoid the semicolon.
< 1260002566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in what place? programming? natural language?
< 1260002571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter. :P
< 1260002583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:29:46 oklofok, how would this be handled if humanity started to colonise other planets? With possibly different lengths of day and year.
< 1260002583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colon-ise
< 1260002592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1260002595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice typo
< 1260002634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:34:59 * AnMaster notes that writing (* 365 24 60 60) is much more compact than 365 * 24 * 60 * 60 (and skipping those spaces is ugly)
< 1260002634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really that ugly.
< 1260002637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no type
< 1260002638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typo
< 1260002668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 36524*60>60*.
< 1260002668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>>/>/
< 1260002669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP in your face? :P
< 1260002681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but if it wasn't ugly it wouldn't be sorter to write it in the former way
< 1260002708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live circular argument or something
< 1260002746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:56:41 iirc he likes factor
< 1260002746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it's interesting
< 1260002781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:43 anyway, I'm kind of worried
< 1260002782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:48 there was a weird whirring sound for a while
< 1260002782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:52 then a bang above me
< 1260002782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:56 now there's the smell of burnt silicon
< 1260002782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally seconds after complaining about the channel not being on-topic often
< 1260002804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:04:36 overheard :P so now we're confusing overload and overheard too!
< 1260002804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhird!
< 1260002841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with RPN for complex statements is that the operands' meaning depend on the operator unless we're talking about basic arithmetic
< 1260002848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have to keep a mental stack of uninterpreted operands
< 1260002927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:19:41 don't make math too formal it takes the soul out of it
< 1260002927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and your name quantumEd, means you are now officially an "omg math is innate beauty it doesn't have to be formal, plus quantum effects=consciousness=UNIVERSE MATTER TRANSCEND BEAUTY" quack.
< 1260002931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a nice day.
< 1260002969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:27:34 oklofok just look at this picture, http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/MathGems/pics/pythagorean_theorem.gif -- this proves pythagoras without any "R" or "metric" or analytic geometry
< 1260002970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate visual proofs.
< 1260002995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:32:35 if you were traveling near speed of light, that proof wouldn't apply anymore
< 1260002995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marry me
< 1260003107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:34:36 I would say it is: Mathematics
< 1260003107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:34:41 it is not: mathematics
< 1260003107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:34:46 it has nothing to do with: mathematics
< 1260003108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:35:01 maybe to you mathematics is deduction trees which a computer can say "VALID" or "INVALID"
< 1260003108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are ignorant to the highest degree.
< 1260003239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:26:24 also why is it so hard to remember quantumEd is fax
< 1260003239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is?
< 1260003288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:27:09 except to get statements from us that you could later use to destroy our political careers
< 1260003289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raping horses with a stick is the only moral thing to do when confronted with a child molester.
< 1260003292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There goes my career!
< 1260003327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:37:14 oklofok: you know, it's OK to unbelieve things you previously believed if someone points out errors in them
< 1260003327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up, science-fascist!
< 1260003410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:36:10 ok, consider a "times table" (a table where the element at (i,j) is i*j)
< 1260003410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FOR J
< 1260003496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor I got left out
< 1260003555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot j lulz
< 1260003846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:37:28 (short)x is in the same memory location as (long)x
< 1260003846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:37:43 if you use big-endian, you have to write code for downcasting
< 1260003846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:37:58 this is the main theoretical advantage for little-endian, as far as I know
< 1260003847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am now a little-endian fan
< 1260003966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45:12 AnMaster: I/O, etc
< 1260003967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45:17 as in, you need inline ASM
< 1260003967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45:19 or something else similar
< 1260003967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char *out = 0xB0000;
< 1260004009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh context of the I/O stuff
< 1260004019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfl
< 1260004022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what were we discussing
< 1260004048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09.12.01
< 1260004063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, don't care enough
< 1260004392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, AnMaster?
< 1260004394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A very large, 30-year study of just about everyone in Scandinavia shows no link between mobile phone use and brain tumours."
< 1260004406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I expect it'll stop your irrationality about that matter.
< 1260004406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of things not to care about, I have this N900 phone now.
< 1260004420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice timing.
< 1260004424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you see my message?
< 1260004493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sort-of. I did see it, but I was already writing what I wrote when I saw it.
< 1260004527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, I didn't say I believed that. I only think I said I prefer being cautious
< 1260004541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, even now?
< 1260004562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read that as NMT-900
< 1260004565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The study provides overwhelming evidence that phones do fuck all as far as brain tumours go.
< 1260004579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I assume you pray 5 times a day to Mecca— to be cautious in case the Islamic god exists?
< 1260004590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is it 5 or 7 times?)
< 1260004591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well sure. But at least some types of cancer can take quite some time to develop iirc. :P
< 1260004601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5
< 1260004617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The worst kind of idiot is the idiot who tries to ignore his stupidity with a bad joke.
< 1260004638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't replying to the praying line...
< 1260004643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that.
< 1260004655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if mobile phones take 30 years to develop cancer then _absolutely_ no one has any evidence that it does
< 1260004669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it won't have _happened_ yet
< 1260004670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true
< 1260004681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ha! I don't know anything about how science works, and will summarily ignore this study with a huge base of evidence, yet continue to believe in evolution, even though all we have for that is that same pesky *evidence*."
< 1260004683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... :P"
< 1260004718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think we can be quite safe in about 100 years or so. Becuase if it causes cancer over longer periods than that it can currently be safely assumed we will be killed by something else before instead.
< 1260004726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260004768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[It is possible, Deltour's team wrote, that it takes longer than 10 years for tumours caused by mobile phones to turn up, that the tumours are too rare in this group to show a useful trend, or that there are trends but in subgroups too small to be measured in the study.
< 1260004768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260004769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just as possible that mobile phones do not cause brain tumours, they added.]]
< 1260004795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You should be just as cautious of radio.
< 1260004796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I read about this study in the newspaper today (or was it yesterday?)
< 1260004802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I suggest moving to an area where you cannot receive radio?
< 1260004805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's radiation, you know.
< 1260004816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could say that everything's radiation. Sort of. I guess.
< 1260004847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lets avoid sun light (hey that one *does* cause cancer)
< 1260004869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth can you make a joke based entirely around your foolishness and yet still go by it?
< 1260004874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes almost a negative amount of sense.
< 1260004940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. Because you have been misunderstanding what my actual opinion on mobile phone radiation issues is?
< 1260004942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if it had been NTM-900, then it would really have been something not to care about
< 1260004959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm basing it entirely on what you've said today.
< 1260004983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is: "I only think I said I prefer being cautious"
< 1260004986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have anything against: "better safe than sorry"
< 1260004997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, because you're not trying to avoid radio signals, are you?
< 1260005003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or low levels of sunliight.
< 1260005006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sunlight
< 1260005011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, always interpreting any sentence in the way that most implies its source is an idiot
< 1260005016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, there is also evidence that we need sunlight
< 1260005026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, too low = bad, too high = bad
< 1260005032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you'll find he's interpreting it in the same way. Care to offer me whatever hackneyed interpretation you take?
< 1260005036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/high/much/
< 1260005050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's irrelevant. Anyway, you are still dodging the matter of radio signals.
< 1260005061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm making a general statement here
< 1260005074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, the radiation from phones is non-ionizing.
< 1260005095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the range of tens of millions time weaker than it would take to be the weakest ionising sort.
< 1260005103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand it correctly, which i think i do.
< 1260005120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ionising radiation is what fucks up dna, and causes cancer.
< 1260005143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and...
< 1260005143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1260005143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At room temperature, your DNA is rattled around by thermal fluctuations with an energy on the order of 0.026 eV. So you can absorb radiation (Infrared Light) on this order of energy without any problem other than possibly getting hot.
< 1260005143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to start harming DNA, and thus helping cause cancer, you need to hit it with photons of 3 eV or more (ultraviolet light).
< 1260005144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell phone radiation, on the other hand, consists of photons with around 0.000001 eV of energy (~ 1 GHz - 5 GHz ). So getting bombarded with a few of these photons isn't going to have any effect.
< 1260005147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]]
< 1260005154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess you avoid ... existitng
< 1260005173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with all that over-80-times-more-powerful-than-phones radiation
< 1260005177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*existing
< 1260005747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:58:51 Sgeo: It's brilliant. It's the smallest device I've ever seen that a criminal could use to steal card numbers
< 1260005747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean... getting people to tell you their number?
< 1260005752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Store owners are EEEEEEEEEVIL
< 1260005773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Credit cards are insecure anyway.
< 1260005782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone you've ever bought from could purchase things as you forever.
< 1260005802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um they have expiration dates don't they?
< 1260005855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260005861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, forever=as long as you can use it.
< 1260005865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:58:11 uuuuurgh
< 1260005865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:58:16 what happened to ehird
< 1260005866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:02:08 there was a tragic accident involving cheddar, a moose and five ancient OSes
< 1260005866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:02:30 while ehird survived (barely), the cheddar did not.
< 1260005866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods
< 1260005904 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260005923 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260005934 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal
< 1260005964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:42:53 http://ismarriagelegalintexas.com/
< 1260005965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnomiclegalintexas
< 1260006134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isrunningwordstogetherlegalintexas
< 1260006316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:13 like, office suite, compiler, vector graphics editor, "better than paint" bitmap editor (gimp)
< 1260006317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp isn't better than paint, just more powerful
< 1260006360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:57 ais523, xp x64 needs around 2.5 GB iirc
< 1260006360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:11:00 way more reasonable
< 1260006361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Oberon OS is available for several other hardware platforms, generally in no cost versions. It is typically extremely compact. Even with an Oberon compiler, assorted utilities including a web browser, TCP/IP networking, and a GUI, the entire package has been able to fit on a single 3.5" floppy disk."
< 1260006377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay okay so I'm raving a bit on the Oberon OS' design, shut up.
< 1260006381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say it was good. Just more reasonable :P
< 1260006389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OS's, fuck s-with-no-s-thingy
< 1260006417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s with no s?
< 1260006422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS' vs OS's
< 1260006423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh i need to set up bitlbee again to connect to m*b*s
< 1260006445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so care to give a summary about what the hell was going on last week and few weeks before that?
< 1260006457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. also, it's not over yet.
< 1260006461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260006467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with.... whatever it is
< 1260006478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get another break from me next mon-fri ;p
< 1260006479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1260006495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh. What sort of strange thing may this be
< 1260006524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated
< 1260006544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, parent got fired?
< 1260006556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sit there guessing for a few years and it won't help.
< 1260006559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1260006560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260006581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so tell us!
< 1260006587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260006601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just love having secrets right?
< 1260006656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, feel free to fuck off.
< 1260006954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:52:10 skullfuck is the more popular term
< 1260006955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:54:07 I meant, being done, rather than being talked about
< 1260006955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:54:24 i imagine it's difficult to find a willing partner
< 1260006955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:54:54 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1260006955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:17:36 lament: who said they had to be willing?
< 1260006956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either we just jumped the shark, or the shark just jumped us.
< 1260006957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which.
< 1260006981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:06:44 but than that means your solve_halting_program() function cannot return either true or false for that particular program because then the program uses the solution to prove it false
< 1260006982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::slowpoke:
< 1260007012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:18:33 quantumEd: ... "Well-founded recursion"?
< 1260007012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:18:49 you are allowed to loop on smaller inputs than what you were given only
< 1260007012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:19:09 so that every function (that's execution doesn't reach any "loop") terminates
< 1260007012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:19:28 And how do you intend to enforce such a restriction?
< 1260007013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible.
< 1260007020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:20:35 ... And for that matter, what does "smaller inputs" mean?
< 1260007020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's well-defined.
< 1260007026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resultant language is sub-TC, but not too bad.
< 1260007041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2003
< 1260007041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/total_functional_programming/jucs_10_07_0751_0768_turner.pdf
< 1260007060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:29:53 quantumEd: What sort of ridiculous restriction on the type system *could you do* to make that not well-typed?
< 1260007060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See above.
< 1260007062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not useless.
< 1260007066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: we don't jump the shark. we tie it up and force it to do computation.
< 1260007070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:31:34 quantumEd: By "useful", I mean "capable of non-trivial calculation".
< 1260007071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do Ackermann.
< 1260007258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:53 ah yes those ones. who has those anymore? ;P
< 1260007258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher-quality keys.
< 1260007273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are other mechanical switches apart from buckling spring
< 1260007399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:24:09 (01:31:11 AM) <>: SystemError: Cannot compiler 'Python.h'.
< 1260007418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnts kompiler Pygthon.h
< 1260007423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at faux-german
< 1260007483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw more people should go wtf at my sort-of-early-draft-thingy-work-in-progress-vaguely-formed-ideas dependently-typed-of-a-sort pastie.org/728571.txt?key=zl2af7lovf0knbe3avpw.
< 1260007492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/728571.txt?key=zl2af7lovf0knbe3avpw for clickability
< 1260007586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm another mistake?
< 1260007590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at this :D
< 1260007621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729217.txt?key=y9oq5kkybo7uhz8eyr9vq
< 1260007622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed
< 1260007638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/List\.on/List.of/)
< 1260008007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers using haskell
< 1260008029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the effort of a haskell compiler, ugh
< 1260008714 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260008880 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260010025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260011001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1260011053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Context of that oh?
< 1260011059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : except for the effort of a haskell compiler, ugh
< 1260011079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an Oberon-2 compiler is about 4,000 lines.
< 1260011089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Haskell compiler is more like 50,000.
< 1260011098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GHC is about 100k lines of Haskell.
< 1260011114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oberon-2 compiler would be more like 3,000 lines in Haskell, I guess.
< 1260011137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the snippet I pasted should be quite simple to compile too.
< 1260011150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that requires 33x the effort of an Oberon-2 compiler I probably won't want to do.
< 1260011152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260011161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell could fit in quite nicely to the system, but eh.
< 1260011182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100k lines feel so inelegant somehow
< 1260011243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GHC does a *lot*.
< 1260011251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1260011362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is pig-ugly code
< 1260011369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is stuff in there that makes its own monad infrastructure
< 1260011376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because monads didn't exist at the time
< 1260011379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell
< 1260011425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it still uses non-monadic Haskell?
< 1260011427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeeeew.
< 1260011544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did haskell use before monads?
< 1260011560 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISTS
< 1260011683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lists of actions for the IO monad, lists of other things otherwise.
< 1260011760 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp had it right, CAR CDR and all that
< 1260011778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp had it wrong.
< 1260011786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can modify state.
< 1260011795 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I forgot about that
< 1260011870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot continuation IO.
< 1260011876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it was for non-IO stuff.
< 1260011879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is just in some parts.
< 1260011886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other parts use regular Prelude Monads.
< 1260012193 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq what was the argument against modifying state again?
< 1260012704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: There is no state. There is only lambda.
< 1260012716 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1260012732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more serious note: a lack of state greatly aids reasoning about your program.
< 1260012779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separation of Church and state.
< 1260012785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyuk hyuk hyuk get it lambda calculus church?
< 1260012786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha
< 1260012788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am funny comedian
< 1260012879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you looked at the oberon os? the paradigm is like plan 9's acme (inspired it) ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/ETHOberon/Native/StdAlone/
< 1260012894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'll have better luck at getting it to run in a vm than me, I think it'd be interesting to have an oberon-os-but-haskell
< 1260012896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I have.
< 1260012896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1260012918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the paradigm blends hypertext with code, it's a living-environment like smalltalk
< 1260012926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have code inline with documents
< 1260012932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how you run commands and open things etc
< 1260012951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything is text, except it handles multimedia and formatting too
< 1260012959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's best at manipulating text/commands
< 1260012975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it divides the whole window into frames like acme, and they're as fluid as acme's frames
< 1260013059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can boot it in qemu but the old-IDE disk driver spews a lot of crap and after installation+reboot, it just hangs trying to boot
< 1260013079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the implications are really interesting — the installer is the same as its documentation
< 1260013096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1260013098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has hyperlinked commands at certain points that you erase the arguments of and fill in the appropriate ones as explained, then middle-click the command name
< 1260013151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e.g. partitioning is done by middle-clicking (iirc) Partition.Show, which brings up another frame, scrolling down to the partition-creation command, replacing and and middle-clicking it
< 1260013160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a sort of composition of tools there, into one documentation-tool
< 1260013200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Researchers from Helsinki University of Technology (Finland), University of New South Wales (Australia), and University of Melbourne (Australia) have succeeded in building a working transistor, whose active region composes only of a single phosphorus atom in silicon. The results have just been published in Nano Letters.
< 1260013205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grats, fizzie + Deewiant :P
< 1260013215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We didn't do it
< 1260013236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tkk is your uni
< 1260013243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your uni was part of it, the news article is on the tkk site
< 1260013245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REST MY CASE
< 1260013254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever
< 1260013269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: moody :p
< 1260013272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1260013327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clearly Deewiant is just denying it so no one will notice their nanobots taking over the world
< 1260013339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmf
< 1260013339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmf
< 1260013341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMPH
< 1260013342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(*$&@&(@(&@
< 1260013349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello i am grey goo
< 1260013356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(british gray goo)
< 1260013366 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1260013373 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point in ?C=M;O=D ?
< 1260013377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting
< 1260013404 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1260013421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260013440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Column=Modified
< 1260013443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order=Descending
< 1260013524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :futura was designed by a german, I am the least surprised
< 1260013780 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what did you do when you were 19?
< 1260013826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was unconscious for a whole year, knowing oerjan's fatalistic outlook
< 1260013925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any luck with oberon or not interesteed?
< 1260013974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 9~Bit busy trying to find keys.
< 1260013983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wat?
< 1260013989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, physical keys.
< 1260014001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260014018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That, and your name quantumEd, means you are now officially an "omg math is innate beauty it doesn't have to be formal, plus quantum effects=consciousness=UNIVERSE MATTER TRANSCEND BEAUTY" quack. <<< THANK you
< 1260014022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in door-openers.
< 1260014034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no, thank YOU!
< 1260014038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a war on thanks
< 1260014066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather people were outright religious than quantum-mystical
< 1260014077 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... i was agreeing with you, do i really have to fight you now?
< 1260014079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pathetic to see them denigrate the beauty of quantum mechanics in such a way
< 1260014088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well, i don't know what to do otherwise :D
< 1260014120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i started university
< 1260014155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260014159 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok what ?
< 1260014162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also went to the math olympiad. although i'm not quite sure if that was before or after my birthday
< 1260014173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do?
< 1260014176 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok is that about me
< 1260014195 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you can read logs, basically i'm thanking ehird for being on my side about our debate
< 1260014205 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok us two had a debate?
< 1260014208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260014208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly mediocre
< 1260014213 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok what was it about
< 1260014227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short one, but i count it as a great irc debate, because it didn't turn into a flamewar :)
< 1260014231 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok oh you're taking the piss out of me because I have a different philosophy to mathematics than you do
< 1260014238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does something incredibly unlikely
< 1260014239 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok that's kinda lame
< 1260014260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the piss out of you?
< 1260014268 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"omg math is innate beauty it doesn't have to be formal, plus quantum effects=consciousness=UNIVERSE MATTER TRANSCEND BEAUTY"
< 1260014272 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying thanks for agreeing with me
< 1260014289 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I agree with you on?
< 1260014293 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah, that's how ehird says he disagrees
< 1260014303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: Your definition of "mathematics" is wrong.
< 1260014307 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :felt like you were making fun of me with it
< 1260014307 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON GRRRR I HATE TYOU SO MUSCH!?!?1?1?"
< 1260014329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't hate him, he's just a quack.
< 1260014332 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying i completely agree with you being totally insane :P
< 1260014359 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah not sure what you're getting at but it seems like you're taking the piss
< 1260014361 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like it when ehird agrees with me, because i don't like being the quack... well okay i suppose i do
< 1260014396 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: okay w/e
< 1260014416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't really recommend spontaneously teleporting like that, what if you end up inside something?
< 1260014417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but i got the gist of it
< 1260014430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no this is even stranger
< 1260014436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1260014440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, using a floppy device!
< 1260014443 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok are you referring to something someone said in particular? because I probably don't know what it is if so
< 1260014445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you broke backwards compatibility?
< 1260014446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1260014446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1260014454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an USB one even.
< 1260014477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connected to an ibook.
< 1260014503 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: wtf? i'm fucking pasting a line someone said and thanking them for agreeing with me, and you start saying i urinate, look in the fucking logs and stop being a bitch kay?
< 1260014528 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh you didn't write this? "omg math is innate beauty it doesn't have to be formal, plus quantum effects=consciousness=UNIVERSE MATTER TRANSCEND BEAUTY"
< 1260014534 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260014536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ducks like a quack...
< 1260014546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono, i wrote that, then pasted it here and thanked myself
< 1260014548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: no, I did.
< 1260014551 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260014552 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:48:47 That, and your name quantumEd, means you are now officially an "omg math is innate beauty it doesn't have to be formal, plus quantum effects=consciousness=UNIVERSE MATTER TRANSCEND BEAUTY" quack.
< 1260014560 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you thought that was me, then i see why you'd be mad
< 1260014568 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't read a lot of what ehird writes
< 1260014573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260014579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My words are made of pure pain!
< 1260014581 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok um.. thanks for making me aware of this though
< 1260014584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / /
< 1260014593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, aware of it. I think I'm supposed to be scared now.
< 1260014614 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignorance is bliss kinda thing
< 1260014646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you've been quantum observed!
< 1260014659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare to collapse!
< 1260014667 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: and "THANK you" wasn't exactly a sincere thanks, it was sort of sarcastic, because he sort of did what i definitely didn't want to do, and said something that usually leads to a flamewar on irc.
< 1260014673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of
< 1260014690 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why i'm explaining myself
< 1260014694 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok dunno it's pissing off me though, I left because ehird is such a cunt, now I can't even /ignore him
< 1260014703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you realize this has now officially turned into a flamewar anyhow?
< 1260014716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260014719 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to both of you
< 1260014754 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but it was just because of misinterpretation, unlike most other flamewars!
< 1260014761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell just happened
< 1260014767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the floppy drive in my desktop
< 1260014770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made X crash
< 1260014779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get IO error on my SATA drive
< 1260014783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to read from it
< 1260014800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous
< 1260014818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reproducible btw
< 1260014840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any bright idea about that?
< 1260014856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1260014957 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to be reminded how pathetically antisocial and confrontation I am too by you folks
< 1260014958 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say ELIZA? http://www.atariarchives.org/morebasicgames/showpage.php?page=58
< 1260014976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: anyway i find that sometimes people that are total cunts are the ones that really make you wonder whether you're as great a person as you could be; not saying ehird has made me change my ways, but a few other total cunts have made quite an impression! :P
< 1260015002 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i was a full 24 hours back in the scrollback
< 1260015015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: i wasn't personally attacking you, btw.
< 1260015019 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok I don't really follow, the deal was: don't read stuff from ehird - don't get into some horrible droning argument that nobody wants to hear
< 1260015020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just your beliefs about mathematics
< 1260015040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try not to attack people (I usually mean "you're being an idiot" when I say "you're an idiot")
< 1260015051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: that was a general comment, it was not about this thing here
< 1260015066 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I got that
< 1260015136 0 :adu!n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260015157 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, a certain well-known #math cunt has changed my views about mathematics quite a lot
< 1260015173 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a bad way?
< 1260015173 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1260015190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :views can only be changed in a good way
< 1260015199 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's i who changes them
< 1260015207 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't take it personally, I'm a mathematician, and I love math, but I hate #math
< 1260015216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well #math is full of cunts
< 1260015219 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah #math is not really a good place
< 1260015220 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260015225 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is this channel
< 1260015229 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that, really makes you think what you say
< 1260015248 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of place where you don't want to turn on your brain because you're only not going to get insulted if you say the pattern match responses
< 1260015261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260015264 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: so how is your OK-language or whatever?
< 1260015278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern shmattern
< 1260015281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1260015289 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-71-163-207-43.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260015296 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: a simple version of oklotalk got implemented in python, but i've kinda gotten out of programming
< 1260015310 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260015318 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten into it :)
< 1260015336 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an OpenType to JSON converter yesterday :)
< 1260015341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i still code like little snippets every now and then, but bigger i don't really have time for bigger programs
< 1260015345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-bigger
< 1260015351 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird can I PM you or are you going to be a bitch about it?
< 1260015366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've usually just pm'd him without asking
< 1260015372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, i can't promise anything mr quantum ed
< 1260015382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you mean oklotalk--?
< 1260015383 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok yeah but past experience tells me that it's probably best to point this out here first
< 1260015390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, oklotalk--
< 1260015397 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's not really a simple version of oklotalk...
< 1260015402 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird fine, fuck you then
< 1260015414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: uh, fine, pm me
< 1260015421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't be a bitch
< 1260015452 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can assure everyone, that there will never be a moment in my life, or a person annoying enough, that i wouldn't love being pm'd by them
< 1260015459 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're starting to sound like one
< 1260015461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *that* one you can quote
< 1260015473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: k
< 1260015482 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: jk ;)
< 1260015488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kjk
< 1260015494 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking in ehird'd favorite languages
< 1260015497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ehird's
< 1260015502 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok
< 1260015522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is o a language? i probably should know...
< 1260015529 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1260015529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay obviously it's a language
< 1260015538 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: i'm sort of an o-philiac
< 1260015546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: "k" "j"
< 1260015549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are not actually my favourite languages
< 1260015555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joek, thou seest
< 1260015560 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260015569 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "D" myself
< 1260015579 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my favorite words start with d
< 1260015588 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like delicious and dick
< 1260015601 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Dance, Drive, Dying
< 1260015615 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not dying
< 1260015633 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like driving, its fun
< 1260015634 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you meant coloring things pretty
< 1260015642 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes
< 1260015651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dodger dastardly devouring dick
< 1260015664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death, destiny and despair
< 1260015747 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cousin asked me when i'm getting a car, i said i don't have a license, he was like when are you getting it? apparently it's not a choice
< 1260015747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah it's sandman)
< 1260015747 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one day, when I have 1,000 code monkeys on my payroll, I will write a bloated IDE/Editor/Browser/Neuralnet that will start with D too
< 1260015747 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this dream about driving a motorcycle, and have been wanting to try one since then, though, as i've mentioned here
< 1260015747 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Destiny! i like that one
< 1260015762 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depressed...
< 1260015787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delirium, dream, destruction and desire, to complete the set
< 1260015825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donkey
< 1260015836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doofus
< 1260015844 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doozer
< 1260015964 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.120.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260016275 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A defence of preemptive multitasking: http://sprunge.us/YNUJ
< 1260016277 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt like writing that.
< 1260016309 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you still haven't /msg'd me like you said
< 1260016336 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: there aren't people still preaching non-preemptive multitasking, surely?
< 1260016359 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(were there ever?)
< 1260016359 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are (and visionary people too), lemme find an example
< 1260016438 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/cliki/no-kernel.html, fourth paragraph onwardfs
< 1260016441 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*onwards
< 1260016446 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pluggable task-switching, but still
< 1260016459 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm quite pleased with http://sprunge.us/YNUJ, it's concise and easy-to-read
< 1260016469 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i normally end up with too short/too long paragraphs/sentences
< 1260016500 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm the last newline should be before the though, "system." is a widow
< 1260016519 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, orphan
< 1260016582 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/RMJD for typographic pedants
< 1260016672 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: also: http://tunes.org/cliki/preemption_20and_20cooperation.html "Now, TUNES is a secure system, and we can and shall use cooperation whenever possible (=almost always)"
< 1260016678 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrph, that tunes link is interesting but doesnt seem to grapple with the fact that preemptive multitasking is good both for the abstraction/layering reason you give in your essay but also as a pragmatic protection against buggy applications, aka 99.99% of applications
< 1260016678 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that page is actually on that topic
< 1260016682 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a better resourcee
< 1260016692 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it may rebut your points, I haven't read it yet
< 1260016708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I noted the protection aspect too in my ...work/page/article/note/essay/whatever
< 1260016715 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Preemptive
< 1260016716 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multitasking handles malicious or badly-written tasks much better,
< 1260016716 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too: you have a chance to terminate a task that tries to hog the
< 1260016716 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system."
< 1260016750 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before that: "Worse, the
< 1260016752 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers of a task are probably not experts in task-switching,
< 1260016752 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's quite likely they'll get it wrong."
< 1260016784 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually, threads are interrupted and signaled by more priviledged threads, but not preempted by equally-priviledged threads. (they might be preempted by foreign threads, to which they can't compare priviledge). This is why we rather call that interruptible cooperative threads instead of preemptible threads."
< 1260016789 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that means
< 1260016822 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the thing with tunes is that fare is a very strong libertarian
< 1260016825 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means a thread that's not running can ask to be run, if needed!
< 1260016835 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it makes quite a lot of compromises in the name of freedom and independence of tasks
< 1260016863 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he views system design as an exercise in ethics)
< 1260016944 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs threads when you can just buy multiple computers
< 1260016952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260016952 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1260016958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninja'd
< 1260016960 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i kind of feel that way also, but i guess my ethical baseline is that if the code is open, you can always change it - and the ability to change the code means sometimes you just hard code it and figure anyone who needs to will hack it and recompile
< 1260017028 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i understand of course that tunes is fully self-modifying and reflexive so that particular example is a bit un-tunesish)
< 1260017044 0 :lifthrasiir!i=fWB6YwGS@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260017046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really having a compiler means you are still in a self modifying environment
< 1260017066 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats part of why im not fully sold on some of ideas you seem committed to, because i think they dont necessarily change as much as you might suppose
< 1260017096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of my ideas aren't big in themselves, but have a large effect on the system's architecture and philosohpy
< 1260017287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: do you know how the viewpoints research institute is funded?
< 1260017313 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260017319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donations and company funding
< 1260017320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring
< 1260017347 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you hoping they sponsored a team of somali pirates?
< 1260017372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, I'm not sure if you knew this before, apologies if you did: there's a proposal in the UK government that gives Lord Mandelson a dictatorship
< 1260017374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P
< 1260017398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe doing work for companies, letting people use unused computing power for a cost, etc
< 1260017413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an absolute dictatorship?
< 1260017466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pretty much, it's a "Mandelson can modify this law by [method]" with ineffective safeguards
< 1260017489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect it would actually be abused in such a way, thankfully.
< 1260017497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to get off this island ASAP anyway, though...
< 1260017514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it yourself if you like: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldbills/001/10001.13-19.html#j164
< 1260017518 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an extra room here
< 1260017543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i'm not sure i could legally move in with you before i'm 16 :P
< 1260017557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you shorten this perl -n oneliner?
< 1260017558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$n{$_}++}{print"$n{$_}\t$_"foreach keys%n
< 1260017563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of any fun horrid tricks
< 1260017572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there. I had an odd hardware issue you might be of help with:
< 1260017583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the braces aren't even balanced there, that's crasily abusive. I like it
< 1260017591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, use "for" not "foreach", they're synonyms
< 1260017594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : using the floppy drive in my desktop made X crash and I get IO error on my SATA drive when I try to read from the floppy
< 1260017599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's ridiculous it's reproducible btw
< 1260017608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it's abusing the implicit while(<>){code} :)
< 1260017611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260017616 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably not without parental permissionz
< 1260017623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you have any idea whatsoever might be going on there?
< 1260017628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't
< 1260017630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if/do/
< 1260017642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does say output a newline if the argument ends with one?
< 1260017671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but it's perl6 anyway
< 1260017677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the rest of the syntax there would be wrong
< 1260017678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's perl 5.10
< 1260017686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's been backported?
< 1260017694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same time as the switch thing
< 1260017711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -v
< 1260017711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is perl, v5.8.9 built for darwin-2level
< 1260017711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking macports
< 1260017721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, you could use an implicit hash->array cast
< 1260017723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you test perl -e'say "fuck\n"' for me?
< 1260017734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't mind the output format being line\ncount\n
< 1260017735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, any non-fuck string too
< 1260017738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than count\tline\n
< 1260017742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i do, that's why i didn't do it
< 1260017757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could I do
< 1260017757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "say "test\n""
< 1260017759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Do you need to predeclare say?)
< 1260017761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like php's variable variables
< 1260017763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :${$_}++
< 1260017768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like say isn't defined
< 1260017774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use 5.10
< 1260017777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1260017779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use 5.10;
< 1260017781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1260017782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260017802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1260017802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl v5.100.0 required (did you mean v5.10.0?)--this is only v5.10.0, stopped.
< 1260017806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didn't expect that
< 1260017810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -M5.10.0 -e'...'
< 1260017827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get two newlines if I do -M5.01, though
< 1260017841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1260017861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ${'foo'} = x
< 1260017865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set $foo to x?
< 1260017873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260017875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic reference
< 1260017876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, is there an easy way to get all defined variables that aren't in perl?
< 1260017881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, use strict may get annoyed if you do that
< 1260017883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an array of names
< 1260017889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not AFAIK
< 1260017896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was:
< 1260017900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :${$_}++}{print"${$_}\t$_"for ???
< 1260017904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a hard way, though
< 1260017938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, perldoc.perl.org is now ugly
< 1260018033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any silly tasks to do in perl? i'm trying to sharpen my art of the horror
< 1260018044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to think of perl as a game. a ridiculous game.
< 1260018066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try writing a brute-force Lights Out solver
< 1260018081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did almost that yesterday, to help solve an Enigma level
< 1260018088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone else's level, that is)
< 1260018099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute-force? how?
< 1260018106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that super-mega-exponentially-hard?
< 1260018136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Bible has a copyright statement
< 1260018140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, a license
< 1260018142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
< 1260018142 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a perl program that converts other perl programs into a human readable form
< 1260018151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 Timothy 3:16-17
< 1260018184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone link me to the source code of use English?
< 1260018212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just make it do an s//
< 1260018213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila
< 1260018215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human readable!
< 1260018278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for an nxn grid it'd take 2^(n*n) attempts
< 1260018280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, give me something mathematical, and i/we can golf perl vs j
< 1260018292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you mean 2^(n^2) :P
< 1260018300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i mean that too
< 1260018301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar 2s
< 1260018327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean (2^n)^n
< 1260018353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i mean aaaaaaaaaaall sorts of things"
< 1260018367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is this lights out?
< 1260018375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/
< 1260018378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a logic game
< 1260018382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1260018393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't ask you. I asked ais523
< 1260018403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked it in a public forum.
< 1260018434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, That is no reason to give unhelpful answers.
< 1260018440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1260018453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not helpful; had you followed it, you would have reached an answer far richer than ais523's.
< 1260018456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it was not unhelpful
< 1260018543 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have a universe U, and a set of subsets of U, called S, you are then given a problem instance I, which is a subset of U, and you need to find a subset Z of S such that when you take the multiset M given by the union of sets in Z, each element of I appears in M an odd number of times, and each element in U\I appears an even amount of times
< 1260018558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get that from google
< 1260018577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom doesn't get that from google
< 1260018584 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's a good one
< 1260018599 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260018603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i think your HIGHLY COMPLEX MATHEMATICS might go over AnMaster's head.
< 1260018608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refers to the fact my mom doesn't watch porn
< 1260018615 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly :P
< 1260018631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/DAPM/perl-5.10.1/lib/English.pm
< 1260018635 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to train my incomprehensibility
< 1260018640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I didn't answer sooner
< 1260018644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bah, too complex
< 1260018679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way it's copying symbol table references
< 1260018803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in lights out, basically we can just think of this as summing a bunch of vectors to another vector, which is basic linear algebra, assuming you know finite fields form vector spaces when you take, well, vectors of them
< 1260018839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, evolution keeps crashing when I load it
< 1260018842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't doing that earlier...
< 1260018870 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that doesn't really solve the part where you want the least amount of presses
< 1260018885 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the complexity?
< 1260018932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute-forcing is 2^(n^2), presumably that's beatable
< 1260019034 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well finding a solution is clearly in P
< 1260019042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i explained
< 1260019051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the best way to geneerate a times table in j is
< 1260019055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / /
< 1260019068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a P-time linear algebra algorithm that works even over modulo-N arithmetic?
< 1260019105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, (i.10)*/i.10
< 1260019125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/geneer/gener/
< 1260019133 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take all the sets in S, and think of them as length n*n vectors, then find a nice basis for the space of n*n vectors, and store which sets of S are used to get each vector in the basis
< 1260019134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+i.9)*/1+i.10 if you don't want 0s
< 1260019175 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get a nice orthonormal basis, with 000...00100...000 vectors, it's trivial to find a solution
< 1260019203 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you have 00110, just take the vectors 00100 and 00010, and sum the vectors of S used to get them
< 1260019236 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you have a finite field F, F^n forms a vector space over F
< 1260019256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+i.9)%/1+i.9
< 1260019259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The division table!
< 1260019274 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if p is prime, then 0, .., p-1 form a finite field
< 1260019281 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case we have 0, 1
< 1260019299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.10)+/i.10 wraps in a fun way
< 1260019319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any "linear algebra algorithm" should work on them just as well as with real vectors or whatever you have
< 1260019326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know what a linear algebra algorithm is
< 1260019409 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in particular, gaussian elimination works directly in the case of binary arithmetic
< 1260019495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1260019513 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i = 1...n, you just take some vector that has 1 as its ith bit, and add it to all other vectors that have i as their ith bit
< 1260019527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if no such vector exists, just skip that part
< 1260019531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that index
< 1260019599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what's the j thingy for making a number into a string
< 1260019611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry, i don't know anything about j's strings
< 1260019644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like they're that important...............................
< 1260019674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL YOU SHOULD :|
< 1260019699 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's called row echelon form
< 1260019738 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i kinda want to write a generic lights out solver :P
< 1260019750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it!
< 1260019774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better still if you somehow make it TC
< 1260019782 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260019817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there 3d lights out
< 1260019838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mine is already much more general than nd
< 1260019843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, n-dimensional sounds even more fun
< 1260019863 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just doing this for generic S \subset 2^U
< 1260019884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, U being the universe set?
< 1260019924 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for say 3-dimensional, you'd have n^3 elements in U, then form S by taking the, well, whatever form you want your "explosion sizes" to be
< 1260019931 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260019933 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*explosions
< 1260019957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm makes kind of sense. I think I understood some parts of it at least :)
< 1260019962 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U being the universe, or you could just think of it as the length of vectors, and give |U|
< 1260019969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh /me tries to remember if j has an adverb meaning repeat argument
< 1260019977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adv+v x → x v x
< 1260019995 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest you study basic linear algebra, it's sort of ubiquitous stuff
< 1260020029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I do know *basic* linear algebra. Like how to reduce to reduced row echelon form and such.
< 1260020044 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, i guess i mean you should study general linear algebra :P
< 1260020052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah
< 1260020075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I also know some set theory. What I'm missing out on here is the vector stuff.
< 1260020107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is linear algebra too, matrices and vectors are close friends
< 1260020168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yeah I said basic. There is some module later on covering it iirc.
< 1260020174 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing "matrices actually are" is a kind of "implementation" of linear maps, that is, mappings between two vector spaces that preserve structure
< 1260020185 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget linear algebra
< 1260020192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, why on earth?
< 1260020214 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just solving simultaneous equations of the form ax + by + cz = d
< 1260020218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful. For practical applications
< 1260020225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260020226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ~
< 1260020227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why forget it
< 1260020232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, yes and?
< 1260020235 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a theory of that
< 1260020247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so */~i. — multiplication table
< 1260020259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the theories everyone should understand
< 1260020271 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need any linear algebra to solve these equations
< 1260020280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260020284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go now ->
< 1260020337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, well I guess there are/could be other ways. It still seems like an easy and useful way for solving large equation systems.
< 1260020386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: did you know a lot of modern coding theory also relies on linear algebra? while it's a theory of linear equations, it has applications outside them.
< 1260020410 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok no
< 1260020416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean linear algebra is what gives says if we have a linear code, we can find a basis for our code, and we have a unique dimension
< 1260020438 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the orthogonal complement space of C is of dimension n-dim(C)
< 1260020464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all stuff that doesn't have to be proven separately, because linear algebra gives us an understanding of general vector spaces
< 1260020472 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no".
< 1260020497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, i guess i was wrong.
< 1260020497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1260020509 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I said forget linear algebra I meant, for the duration of solving lights out
< 1260020663 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. then i agree in this case you could just think of it as solving equations.
< 1260020681 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes so don't jump to conclusions to ridicule me please
< 1260020686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for getting solutions
< 1260020705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, and also seeing if they exist in practical situations
< 1260020716 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are such a fucking moron I am leaving rather than waste time listening to your bullshit"
< 1260020769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you're way too sensitive
< 1260020776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything's a war against you
< 1260020777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grow up
< 1260020777 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i said that, then realized that was rude, and explained myself
< 1260020792 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly i said that because i was leaving
< 1260020817 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to do a thing
< 1260020819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it really did sound like you were saying linear algebra is useless.
< 1260020835 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok how much of a stupid dickhead do you think I am? seriously
< 1260020851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are such a fucking moron I am leaving rather than waste time listening to your bullshit" is amusing with him previously saying he left because of me
< 1260020861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you are such a fucking dick I am leaving rather than waste time listening to your bullshit"
< 1260020876 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: you could think it's not something people should learn as the first things in mathematics without being a stupid dickhead, imo
< 1260020883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would just loudly disagree, as i did.
< 1260020934 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, w/e, again :P
< 1260020935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1260021221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, oklofok always had problems leaving when he had to. Don't take it personally
< 1260021233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he usually shows up several times again before actually leaving for real
< 1260021236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/had/has/g
< 1260021236 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster I guess you missed what happened earlire
< 1260021243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: quantumEd has a persecution complex.
< 1260021249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, probably. I don't generally read scrollback
< 1260021254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "persecution"?
< 1260021261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfd(ictionary)
< 1260021282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
< 1260021294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoth whatever os x's dictionary is
< 1260021313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 2. The feeling you easily get around ehird
< 1260021315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1260021340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're prone to taking criticisms personally when they were not so, yes.
< 1260021349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... That was a joke dujh
< 1260021350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh*
< 1260021355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1260021363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't seem so. meh
< 1260021383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if fortran has any cool ideas
< 1260021394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define cool
< 1260021404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1260021417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, hard to define that precisely
< 1260021431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.
< 1260021447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I know next to nothing about fortran
< 1260021461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still find it hard to believe how short oberon-2's report is compared to r5rs...
< 1260021462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been cooling for 50 years, should be practically freezing
< 1260021481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I remember one thing. at least gcc's fortran compiler stores multi-dimensional arrays in the opposite order of gcc's C compiler
< 1260021493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in a C array like int myarray[200][100];
< 1260021512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of fortran knowledge
< 1260021537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "meh"
< 1260021537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ary[x][y] = ary[(x*width)+y] is intuitive and obvious, I'd say
< 1260021546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he was joking
< 1260021550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes
< 1260021564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I found the joke rather mediocre
< 1260021598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not up to his usual punerific strength
< 1260021601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ary[x][y][z] = ary[(((x*width)+y)*depth)+z]
< 1260021605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if that can be simplified
< 1260021626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway the thing is gcc stores it in one order and gfortran in the opposite one
< 1260021629 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260021634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATLAB matrices are also in column-major order in memory, at least usually.
< 1260021639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc fortran was columns first, but gcc was row first
< 1260021643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1260021647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260021658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in int foo[42][34]; is sizeof foo == 42*sizeof int?
< 1260021664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it 42*34*sizeof int
< 1260021677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter.
< 1260021685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1260021686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err how could the former one happen?
< 1260021698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you could do sizeof foo / sizeof foo[0]
< 1260021704 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260021718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so:
< 1260021739 0 :adu!n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260021844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260021859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had
< 1260021860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested: A[X][Y] = A[(X*(sizeof A / sizeof A[0]))+Y]
< 1260021861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {A[X]:nested}[Y] = A[(X*(sizeof A / sizeof A[0]))+Y]
< 1260021863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the latter one
< 1260021870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sizeofs
< 1260021876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to know how nested it is previously
< 1260021880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1260021884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the generic pointer rule :P
< 1260021980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: width, depth, ?
< 1260021983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 4-dimensions
< 1260021984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas?
< 1260021985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sizeof is always bytes
< 1260021994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, yes, it was just an example :P
< 1260021996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm?
< 1260022003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm whatt
< 1260022017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 4 dimensions?
< 1260022017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked me something
< 1260022017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what
< 1260022019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260022021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :width = 2d
< 1260022023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depth = 3d
< 1260022024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? = 4d
< 1260022024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260022032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the name matter?
< 1260022037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1260022039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll call it fourd
< 1260022045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the variables x,y,z,x4
< 1260022051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better name: fnourd
< 1260022060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, mathematica has found a simpler form for me
< 1260022112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, not it hasn't
< 1260022119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has found one with less nesting!
< 1260022137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[x][y][z] = (depth*width*x) + (depth*y) + z
< 1260022138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the current mathematica version
< 1260022148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has decided to get it
< 1260022157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[x][y][z][x4] = (depth*fourd*width*x*x4) + (depth*fourd*x4*y) + (fourd*x4*z)
< 1260022161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc that's kinda obvious
< 1260022164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what; legally?!
< 1260022171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope your name is moneybags
< 1260022177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait then you'd be able to look it up
< 1260022200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lets not go into details
< 1260022200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about legality
< 1260022200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly illegally
< 1260022200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.0.1
< 1260022206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 7.0.0
< 1260022224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suffice to say I'm always a law abiding person and this is a public place and freenode doesn't use ssl, and why trust freenode anwyay.
< 1260022234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'll need a key generator, and it'll only run on windows, just so you know... just in case... not that i'm implying anything...
< 1260022254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have MSDNAA and I have virtualbox. What else does one need?
< 1260022259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vm might be good... because they're not too trustable... this is for PUBLIC INFORMATION ONLY
< 1260022265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260022274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I did that I would rollback of course
< 1260022279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I would ever do such a thing
< 1260022311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're epileptic the demoscene light show included might be bad... JUST SAYING
< 1260022324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I think that was relatively inconspicuous
< 1260022325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cough
< 1260022326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything important new in 7.0.1 compared to 7.0.0?
< 1260022327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call me ford prefect
< 1260022330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably not.
< 1260022340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a bugfix release
< 1260022361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mathematica is buggy enough that it hardly matters :D
< 1260022378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have of course not seen such demoscene light shows before, but I do happen to know exactly what you mean. Very strange this knowledge just dumped straight into my brain somehow.
< 1260022391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly all minds are the same.
< 1260022399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I read that as "fnord prefect" first XD
< 1260022400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have the ability to break down the barriers between them.
< 1260022415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, you can't edit mathematica notebooks (programs) outside of mathematica, just so you kknow
< 1260022417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know
< 1260022423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're rich text
< 1260022423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay
< 1260022432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're not really programs per se
< 1260022448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're definitions, lines of code that haven't been rune, lines of code with their output (which can be interactive) below, and formatted text to explain it
< 1260022470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it automatically indents, add spacing and wraps lines for you. working against it is painful, I suggest never typing whitespace
< 1260022479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can view them with that viewer thing that everyone of course has installed.
< 1260022490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, the default 3d output is fugly because it doesn't antialiase
< 1260022500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the options, it's appearance→graphics→drag to the highest setting. barely any performance hit.
< 1260022501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1260022544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, purely hypothetical: to what degree should one trust the actual pirated program in question if the keygen can't be trusted?
< 1260022563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Entirely.
< 1260022569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keygens aren't cracks, they don't hack the program.
< 1260022584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just reverse-engineered the key mechanism, and made a program that generates valid ones.
< 1260022590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even if the keygen is included in the same purely hypothetical torrent?
< 1260022602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was not compiled by the keygen authors.
< 1260022612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The warez community... isn't too fond of bittorrent.
< 1260022615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, says "EDGE"? hm
< 1260022620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not?
< 1260022623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is the piracy community.
< 1260022632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tradition, security, privacy.
< 1260022636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclusivity
< 1260022659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, what do you suggest, a 600 part yencoded usenet thread?
< 1260022659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260022669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something around that. Probably more parts
< 1260022691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use protected FTP servers.
< 1260022696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260022714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get in to one, you have to have first made a certain number of releases yourself and stuff.
< 1260022734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a tier of most-exclusive-earliest-releases-fastest-connections down to the public sites.
< 1260022759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There're bots that distribute it all downwards. There's a race between scene groups to complete a distribution of a new release before anyone else, and the group that manages it wins that release.
< 1260022760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so then who uses torrents?
< 1260022764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all vague and I've probably made some errors.
< 1260022770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use*
< 1260022781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FTP might filter down to Usenet or whatever, or straight from the public site.
< 1260022801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it just circulates around P2P and shit, and someone makes a torrent at some point.
< 1260022814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260022827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of P2P?
< 1260022837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-torrent p2p I assume
< 1260022837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gnutella and stuff, I guess
< 1260022841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260022852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fuzzy as to the path from scene-approved to torrents
< 1260022887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe ed2k is involved somewhere
< 1260022893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course, since all this is just hypothetical knowledge or something
< 1260022896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed2k?
< 1260022900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDonkey_network
< 1260022914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ed2k://long hash links
< 1260022927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i've ever seen one.
< 1260022933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw mathematica uses qt for gui
< 1260022949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can technically use at the command line, but most of mathematica's fun is from the interactive/graphical stuff
< 1260022957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen such a link either. Not even hypothetically
< 1260023013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it include *.deb?
< 1260023023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a binary, I believe.
< 1260023025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus supporting files.
< 1260023034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an installer.
< 1260023037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/InstallingMathematicaOnUnixAndLinux.html
< 1260023040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, is it a installer.sh thing that spews all over the file system or not
< 1260023049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an installer.
< 1260023055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1260023055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. The installer prompts you to specify the directory in which Mathematica should be installed. The default location is /usr/local/Wolfram/Mathematica/7.0. Press Enter to accept the default, or type in a new location and then press Enter.
< 1260023059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But no file system spew.
< 1260023065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest /opt/mathematica.
< 1260023070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you have no /opt, /usr/lib/mathematica.
< 1260023078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7. You are asked for the location in which to copy the executable scripts. You should choose a directory that is present on each user's PATH. The scripts are also installed in the Executables subdirectory of the Mathematica installation directory. Type a location or accept the default and press Enter.
< 1260023080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah and do it as normal user
< 1260023084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd choose $prefix/bin.
< 1260023103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That'll fuck up the ownership of the resulting files.
< 1260023104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in create directory and chown it to said user, then install mathematica as it
< 1260023105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt Wolfram have created a malicious piece of software.
< 1260023135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only touches the Mathematica prefix and the executable prefix, it seems.
< 1260023137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) binary installer 2) hypothetical non-trusted source
< 1260023142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it says it requires root.
< 1260023146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also you said it was buggy
< 1260023148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and binary?
< 1260023150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shell, I believe
< 1260023153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mathematica itseelf
< 1260023153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1260023154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*itself
< 1260023158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's mostly crashes and stuff
< 1260023169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithmic errors that is
< 1260023173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that make it crash
< 1260023181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260023188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why so badly coded one wonders
< 1260023188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never crashed mathematica
< 1260023190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has though
< 1260023200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ais523 is quite pathological
< 1260023213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the main thing you'll notice with mathematica is that if you compose a few primitives, it's really fast
< 1260023219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if you write some code that isn't glue, it takes years
< 1260023230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bipolar performance
< 1260023234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is hypothetically strange: getting higher download speed than what your connection limit is.
< 1260023238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manic-depressive language
< 1260023250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what connection speed, what download speed?
< 1260023257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer with proper units, please
< 1260023268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. b=bit, B=byte, K=1000, Ki=1024
< 1260023273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I won't be able to see what you got wrong :-D
< 1260023280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your connection is 9 Mb, right?
< 1260023283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 megabits = 9,000 bits
< 1260023286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "8 megabit down" (ISP's wording), 2 megabit (1024 based) actual download
< 1260023286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1260023287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8
< 1260023295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1024 x bit?
< 1260023299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you mean 2 megabyte
< 1260023306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megabit is never 1024 based
< 1260023308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always 1000
< 1260023308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah byte
< 1260023309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo
< 1260023325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to translate into the formal units required for actually diagnosing the problem
< 1260023336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I should get something around 1000 kilobyte per second max
< 1260023336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISP says 8 Mb/s = 8 megabits per second
< 1260023341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting around twice
< 1260023361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practise I tend to get 800 kbyte/s (unknown if it is 1000 or 1024) most time
< 1260023364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tend to get 2 MiB/s = 16 Mb/s
< 1260023365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just this time...
< 1260023369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 16 megabits per second
< 1260023369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed
< 1260023371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, what?
< 1260023375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think google fucked up that conversion
< 1260023382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *8
< 1260023393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you went from bits to byte
< 1260023393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I can't trust google to have the correct units
< 1260023395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it did
< 1260023408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the maths is easy, just do it yourself
< 1260023410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to write a program that actually converts them properly
< 1260023418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not when you get to Mi
< 1260023435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just unravel it down to bytes/bits
< 1260023437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries writing it in perl, for no reason
< 1260023445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting choice
< 1260023479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilobytes to petabytes should do methinks
< 1260023488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, decabytes!
< 1260023498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just because)
< 1260023621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.4 MB/s over lan?
< 1260023626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's poor
< 1260023640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for ssh
< 1260023652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is gbit ethernet
< 1260023658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it isn't
< 1260023663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only part of the way
< 1260023664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260023751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, perl's foreach doesn't let you get the indices too?
< 1260023755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a way
< 1260023808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/ shows the thiing for index
< 1260023809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess why
< 1260023827 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-118-39.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260023841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why on earth /opt/plan9 is owned by the non-existent user 1002
< 1260023857 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260023970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1260023977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automating -i is hard because it's just "nearest power"
< 1260024001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it, always?
< 1260024002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure
< 1260024071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260024186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260024193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm case-insensitive in the first letter of the prefix, but not the rest
< 1260024203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiB = KiB
< 1260024205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1260024209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kib != kiB
< 1260024225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is KIB == kiB?
< 1260024231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I is a syntax error.
< 1260024235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh
< 1260024240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the thing for kibibytes, officially, is kiB
< 1260024242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically it's KiB
< 1260024243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1260024337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260024340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess uppercase I will work
< 1260024342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for my laziness
< 1260024459 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260024567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1260024570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to use bignums
< 1260024573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i work in bits
< 1260024581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the smallest unit is b = 1 bit
< 1260024596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 petabyte is a loooot of bits
< 1260024608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, easy enough
< 1260024610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just
< 1260024611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use bignum;
< 1260024614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no other code changes required
< 1260024623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster will hate that, it's magic)
< 1260024675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm indifferent to this information
< 1260024684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously?
< 1260024685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? Becuase I already hate perl.
< 1260024692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this changes nothing
< 1260024717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate is a strong word
< 1260024847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the hypothetical keygen seems to have instructions in, uh, spanish?
< 1260024856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run the exe
< 1260024868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put AnMaster or your real name in every field it wants (prolly name, organisation)
< 1260024871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit the button
< 1260024880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should give a serial key and some other ID thing
< 1260024881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why my real name or such
< 1260024886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use made up ones normally
< 1260024889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's what mathematica will put as your license information
< 1260024897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for such paranoia, it's an in-program key checker
< 1260024897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm
< 1260024915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my real name is N/A
< 1260024917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice name
< 1260024933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norlander/Arvid
< 1260024934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it is.
< 1260025025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah
< 1260025056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then
< 1260025075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun, own category in the program menu
< 1260025081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it didn't clobber stuff iirc?
< 1260025083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1260025127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top causes for wakeups:
< 1260025127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32,7% (9725,4) MathKernel : schedule_hrtimeout_range (hrtimer_wakeup)
< 1260025127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32,7% (9712,2) Mathematica : schedule_hrtimeout_range (hrtimer_wakeup)
< 1260025127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32,5% (9655,4) java : schedule_hrtimeout_range (hrtimer_wakeup)
< 1260025129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1260025131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1260025150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1260025160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know it clobbered the menus.
< 1260025163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1260025164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it causes noise from my laptop
< 1260025166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No big shakes, it's just one file.
< 1260025170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even idling?
< 1260025171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those wakeups
< 1260025173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes
< 1260025184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the options
< 1260025186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high pitched C4 mwait/C0 switches
< 1260025198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then?
< 1260025206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the Parallel tab.
< 1260025212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it
< 1260025213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what
< 1260025215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be launching kernels when needed
< 1260025219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic (number of cores)
< 1260025225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set to that
< 1260025228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is run kernels at a lower process priority set?
< 1260025231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, set it
< 1260025248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also set
< 1260025255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still this noise is annoying. argh
< 1260025295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1260025299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to deal with it
< 1260025333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is "worse than CRT" noise.
< 1260025343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wakeups-from-idle per second : 10379,7 interval: 10,0s
< 1260025343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1260025347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a lot
< 1260025354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deal with it.
< 1260025354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usual is around 20-40
< 1260025372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or try setting there to be only one kernel.
< 1260025383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And set it to launch parallel kernels at startup, then restart.
< 1260025454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help either
< 1260025456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260025537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why java though hm
< 1260025550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some part of it is Java.
< 1260025568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would reset those settings you changed, btw.
< 1260025570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icedtea is buggy IME. Maybe that is why
< 1260025580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the open-source Sun JDK.
< 1260025607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica has received the signal: SIGSEGV and has exited.
< 1260025611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what I did
< 1260025621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launch it and quit it I think
< 1260025651 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260025665 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260025712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even more magic than "use bignum"
< 1260025713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use integer;
< 1260025717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now all divisions are integer division.
< 1260025721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is usually used in a block:
< 1260025722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1260025723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260025724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : use integer;
< 1260025726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calculations;
< 1260025726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1260025745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, in fact, I think it has to be in a block.
< 1260025761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, no.
< 1260025824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, program, 8 KiB = 64 Kb, not 65.536.
< 1260025831 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260025837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there a way to tell apt-get that "no even if this is a recommends, I don't want this package"
< 1260025845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, no, wait, my Perl program is right.
< 1260025846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"error out rather than try to install this"
< 1260025856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a --dont-install-recommends-fuck-you
< 1260025875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260025897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I was considering a specific one I want to ban forever to the deepest circles of hell
< 1260025919 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260025957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but --no-install-recommends works I guess
< 1260026011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the "recommends" means "if you want that, you almost certainly want this too unless you're doing something really weird"
< 1260026066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I disagree in this case
< 1260026084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what case is it?
< 1260026098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avahi-daemon and sun-java6-jdk (indirect dep)
< 1260026105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the former
< 1260026119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you switch implementation for alternatives?
< 1260026136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, I want to switch from openjdk to sun's jdk
< 1260026148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a command for it, but I can never remember what it is
< 1260026150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check
< 1260026166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1260026169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, sudo update-alternatives
< 1260026182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably best to read the man page before using it
< 1260026214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo update-alternatives --config java" is the normal method of using it
< 1260026217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tldr but I have to get something sugar rich, should be able to handle it then
< 1260026239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you write the name of the binary in question, which is probably going to be "java" here
< 1260026267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't help
< 1260026271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the original issue)
< 1260026273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1260026464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1260026486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openjdk is sun's
< 1260026488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah there seems to be many reports on this
< 1260026493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want the closed one
< 1260026494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling on mathematica 7 linux powertop
< 1260026526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the openjdk was the buggy one, that was causing grief in another context recently
< 1260026531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icedtea was as bad
< 1260026537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closed one being less buggy
< 1260026545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugs have been filed
< 1260026561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not by me, but by the author of that java application)
< 1260026605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://groups.google.com/group/comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica/browse_thread/thread/861d1ad03b19d949
< 1260026628 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yey bugs
< 1260026657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same behaviour as I'm seeing
< 1260026681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenJDK had some really strange bugs in the AWT/Swing image-processing parts; though those have long since been fixed. (It was just that only some of the university boxen were new enough to have fixed versions.)
< 1260026709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm the issue was in awt stuff iirc
< 1260026712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try the 32-bit version?
< 1260026714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe swing
< 1260026719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same cd?
< 1260026724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno.
< 1260026726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not.
< 1260026726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260026732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram are anal with their licenses.
< 1260026748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes same cd
< 1260026787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I need this thing called sleep. So yeah will try in 32-bit chroot tomorrow
< 1260026806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just press the sleep button!
< 1260026847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 4PiB Pb
< 1260026847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26.8435456 Pb
< 1260026862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 pebibytes is ~26.84 petabits.
< 1260026865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more you know!
< 1260026872 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260026877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb fungot
< 1260026878 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: along with nick, for a marker, not an expression?)) fnord
< 1260026880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you'd left
< 1260026883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1260026883 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1260026908 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260026922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really should put fungot under some auto-restart service supervisor one of these days.
< 1260026922 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or the specification has changed, maybe it will be
< 1260026943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1024PiB b
< 1260026944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68719476736 b
< 1260026944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, no.
< 1260026964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong indeed
< 1260026991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if
< 1260026991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:27] ehird: $ ./sconvert 4PiB Pb
< 1260026992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:27] ehird: 26.8435456 Pb
< 1260026992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was incorrect too.
< 1260027002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure when he left either. The wlan box did reset when I added an entry to the MAC filter list, but that shouldn't affect him.
< 1260027010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it work for MiB to MB?
< 1260027027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mebibytes to megabytes, or to megabits?
< 1260027040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the former
< 1260027040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that
< 1260027057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1024MiB MB
< 1260027057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :838.8608 MB
< 1260027062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're known to use inconsistent units
< 1260027066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnno
< 1260027069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrong
< 1260027070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the above is wrong, yeah.
< 1260027072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very wrong
< 1260027089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OH
< 1260027094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My prefixes are— hm, no.
< 1260027095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or...
< 1260027096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1260027096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you had it backwards right?
< 1260027108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print expr_value($ARGV[0])/unit_value($ARGV[1]), " $ARGV[1]\n";
< 1260027115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 1 MiB to MB
< 1260027127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit_value('kB') → 8000
< 1260027136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr_value('3 kb') → 3000
< 1260027137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully.
< 1260027144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260027146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1MiB MB
< 1260027147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.8192 MB
< 1260027149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try simple ones
< 1260027149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks right.
< 1260027165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Remember that the intermediate values are bits.
< 1260027171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bytes.
< 1260027176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well try it for just bits then
< 1260027193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1Kib Kb
< 1260027193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.024 Kb
< 1260027202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems about right?
< 1260027207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's right.
< 1260027216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1KiB KB
< 1260027217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.024 KB
< 1260027218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too.
< 1260027224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1KiB Kb
< 1260027224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.192 Kb
< 1260027224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that.
< 1260027226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but the MiB -> MB one was wrong
< 1260027231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1260027244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure but
< 1260027247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's see.
< 1260027254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired to work it out
< 1260027285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 MiB = 1.048576 MB, I believe.
< 1260027295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1MiB MB
< 1260027296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.8192 MB
< 1260027296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I think that's wr— oh, perhaps—
< 1260027316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be more than one MB at least
< 1260027321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure about that
< 1260027332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? Hm.
< 1260027353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should it?
< 1260027361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused now.
< 1260027371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print unit_value('MiB')/8,"\n";
< 1260027371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ 8192
< 1260027372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 80 GB disk fits around 74 GiB iirc
< 1260027382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Division by 8 should convert bits to bytes.
< 1260027387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...
< 1260027398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my @ids = split //, 'kmgtp';
< 1260027399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foreach (0..4) {
< 1260027399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my $pow10 = 10**($_+3);
< 1260027399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $prefixes{$ids[$_]} = $pow10;
< 1260027399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $prefixes{$ids[$_].'i'} = 2**int((log($pow10)/log(2))+.5);
< 1260027400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }
< 1260027404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try 80 GB to GiB
< 1260027408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my error is in the i line.
< 1260027413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I remember what that should be
< 1260027422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's calculating the nearest power of two. Maybe that's incorrect.
< 1260027427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roghly
< 1260027455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My prefixes are definitely wrong.
< 1260027481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, known test case from segate disk: 80 GB is around 74 GiB
< 1260027506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61.03515625 here. My prefixes hash must be in error; let me dump it.
< 1260027522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 61 is nowhere near 74
< 1260027540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "$_\t$prefixes{$_}\n" foreach (keys %prefixes);
< 1260027551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want fixed powers of two, not upwards-rounded ones.
< 1260027571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729686.txt?key=dqx6u1u7v0u9wipsfhg
< 1260027575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Unverbosify?
< 1260027598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^10 for ki, 2^20 for Mi and so on.
< 1260027611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today I finally tried an 2.6.27 kernel and the problem disappeared. So it seems that Mathematica has a problem with kernels newer than 2.6.27 and that this problem is not Ubuntu specific."
< 1260027612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1260027645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, so it's just 2^(i*10)?
< 1260027664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1260027665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the right i, yes.
< 1260027667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i+1)*10
< 1260027675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1260027678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: k:0,m:1,g:2,t:3,p:4
< 1260027686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm stupid :)
< 1260027717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 80GB GiB
< 1260027717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.007450580596923828125 GiB
< 1260027717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1260027723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suspect you of incorrectosity!
< 1260027738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my @ids = split //, 'kmgtp';
< 1260027738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foreach (0..4) {
< 1260027738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $prefixes{$ids[$_]} = 10**($_+3);
< 1260027738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $prefixes{$ids[$_].'i'} = 2**(($_+1)*10);
< 1260027739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }
< 1260027740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's some false marketing if I ever seen it
< 1260027742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1260027747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-D
< 1260027765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but srsly, it's not a drive company conspiracy, people who say that are dumb)
< 1260027770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a factor-of-1000 error if I saw right.
< 1260027780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but jokishly: I know that
< 1260027790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking
< 1260027794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads of people really think it's false marketing
< 1260027804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course the real conspiracy is SI using 1000 not 1024
< 1260027805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to begin with
< 1260027807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed, but I don't see why in my code.
< 1260027819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IMPERIAL SYSTEM UBER ALLES
< 1260027824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it weird that SI prefixes do not correspond to SI values?
< 1260027824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PINTS AND YARDS AND MILES
< 1260027826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DECIMAL MUST DIE
< 1260027829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do correspond
< 1260027849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = 1000x... deciding it ought to be 1024x just because it's more convenient is rather dumb
< 1260027857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US, both the time and the measurements are non-decimal, but they use them both in decimal.
< 1260027861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crazy!
< 1260027863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, *woosh*
< 1260027870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Indeed. Even in a REAL binary system, 1024 wouldn't be special.
< 1260027873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that how it feels to say it
< 1260027876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We only use 1024 because it's close to 1000.
< 1260027878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's whoosh.
< 1260027879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260027884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah
< 1260027888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woosh is a girly wind. WHOOSH is MEATY!
< 1260027896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whaash?
< 1260027904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather wet I fear
< 1260027906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wharsh yarsherlf.
< 1260027917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what dialect?
< 1260027918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a lowercase k; people seem to get this wrong :/
< 1260027922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either; do dump that %prefixes hash, since the init should be right now.
< 1260027965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, but know the crazy thing?
< 1260027970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard for the -i suffixes says that it's Ki-.
< 1260027972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's k-.
< 1260027979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS INCONSISTENT AND STUPID ;_;
< 1260027979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I'll just start measuring everything in dab, just to confuse people.
< 1260028015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mb
< 1260028015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dab?
< 1260028015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. You want 10**(($_+1)*3) there too.
< 1260028015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: decabits
< 1260028015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mb. That's less than one bit.
< 1260028016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES THAT EVEN—
< 1260028021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB
< 1260028021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there are patches from wolfram it seems
< 1260028022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1260028026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to confuse people who think I'm talking about Mb
< 1260028029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even MB
< 1260028036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think you'll mean MiB, probably.
< 1260028042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/turkeyb/doc/turkeyb.html
< 1260028047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one GB == 8,000,000,000,000 mb
< 1260028047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two thirds of a bit plus half a trit."
< 1260028058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to start measuring in BI_ITs.
< 1260028059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's 10**3, 10**4, ... and so on, which is not very right.
< 1260028087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Err, are you sure?
< 1260028090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1260028092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are.
< 1260028125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 80GB GiB
< 1260028125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.50580596923828125 GiB
< 1260028125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the jut of your KiB!
< 1260028131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot*
< 1260028156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be legal to combine units.
< 1260028160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = KK!
< 1260028165 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm
< 1260028166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260028170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES :|
< 1260028178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = MK or KM or KKK
< 1260028191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KKK!
< 1260028191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, right, I meant M.
< 1260028196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mk or kM or kkk
< 1260028220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... other fun things to measure in: YB
< 1260028224 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260028231 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOO
< 1260028237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yotta comes after peta, right?
< 1260028246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably make my calculator anal so that you have to use the correct capitalisation.
< 1260028251 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after, meaning smaller?
< 1260028256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to make sure k's binary form becomes Ki.
< 1260028266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: although, do you think I should accept ki too? Because Ki is really fucking stupid.
< 1260028280 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260028291 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think prefixes are stupid
< 1260028293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Double prefixes such as those formerly used in micromicrofarads (picofarads), hectokilometres (100 kilometres), and millimicrons or micromillimetres (both nanometres) were also dropped with the introduction of the SI."
< 1260028294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ki makes sense in that it's used for consistency with other 'i' forms; I wouldn't really care either way
< 1260028305 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't people just write 1000000000000000?
< 1260028313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's kMGTPEZY
< 1260028319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: obvious ereasons.
< 1260028321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260028330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is the highest lowercase prefix
< 1260028338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "micromicrofarad" one is a link too.
< 1260028342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but k makes sense with consistency for... most other >0 prefixes :-)
< 1260028350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just have made all prefixes >1x capital
< 1260028356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would avoid "da" as well
< 1260028359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make it support both ki and Ki
< 1260028365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is rational and the second one is standard
< 1260028371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it complain if you enter KB or Kb
< 1260028371 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and kI
< 1260028380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes
< 1260028384 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for the stupids
< 1260028398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: no.
< 1260028448 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree with ehird
< 1260028458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A micro-microfarad (ĂŽÂĽĂŽÂĽF) that can be found in older texts is the equivalent of a picofarad." (That probably has a broken mu sign, haven't fixed the locale just right.)
< 1260028477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if it sees "iB", it should complain that Hungarion notation sucks
< 1260028493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, program made anal.
< 1260028498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat?
< 1260028511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's hungarian
< 1260028516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, typo
< 1260028522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1KiB kB
< 1260028522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.024 kB
< 1260028534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sconvert 1KiB KB
< 1260028534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf KB
< 1260028540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260028546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably handle that
< 1260028554 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you mean ÎĽÎĽF?
< 1260028561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make it do other units two :D
< 1260028570 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or µµF?
< 1260028599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But it's mainly for byte/bit, binary/decimal confusion.
< 1260028618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curse you, Unix
< 1260028624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, curse my atrocious word choice there
< 1260028627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should have been "too"
< 1260028629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix? Why?
< 1260028635 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260028650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: units(1) is there for the rest
< 1260028678 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260028692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "A micro-microfarad (ĂŽÂĽĂŽÂĽF) that can be found in older texts is the equivalent of a picofarad." (That probably has a broken mu sign, haven't fixed the locale just right.)
< 1260028696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding failure?
< 1260028704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant µ
< 1260028705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1260028711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µµ maybe
< 1260028712 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ůŋıçøðë Ĺōχ
< 1260028722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260028733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "3$(units kg grams | tail -1)" | bc
< 1260028734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000
< 1260028748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be pretty clear from the () part what was meant.
< 1260028766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleepity now, night.
< 1260028785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value in multiplication (*) at ./sconvert line 38.
< 1260028786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value in split at ./sconvert line 27.
< 1260028786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of uninitialized value in hash element at ./sconvert line 28.
< 1260028794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEEEEEEEEERL :|
< 1260028830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use strict; use warnings; use whatever-the-thing-that-makes-you-have-to-pass-stuff-through-a-regex-to-make-it-trusted;?
< 1260028843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to do with that.
< 1260028851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial bug, now fixed.
< 1260028884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260028886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, now it says bad input for everything :-D
< 1260028899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you should have used python instead
< 1260028903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah.
< 1260028907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tainted mode?
< 1260028907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to code this in C out of curiosity, see how much bigger it is.
< 1260028909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, bignums.
< 1260028912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, possibly
< 1260028913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmp.
< 1260028914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiver.
< 1260028916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.
< 1260028919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1260028920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not :D
< 1260028926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just use longs for the C version. :P
< 1260028933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, long long
< 1260028936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it'll be able to handle yottabytes, but.
< 1260028937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1260028943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not?
< 1260028954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? you get 32 bits on 32-bit x86 then
< 1260029028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or use gmp
< 1260029036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get 32-bits with long too...
< 1260029044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh?
< 1260029048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said
< 1260029074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit x86 sizeof: int=4, long=4, long long=8
< 1260029079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit x86 sizeof: int=4, long=8, long long=8
< 1260029082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1260029098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So?
< 1260029101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use __int128_t if __GNUC__
< 1260029102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care.
< 1260029102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260029112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it _int128_t?
< 1260029116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well something like that
< 1260029133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still why not long long?
< 1260029162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because long is more widely supported and grokkable.
< 1260029162 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long long long obv
< 1260029165 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only decent error message in all of GCC
< 1260029173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh?
< 1260029184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stdint.h: int64_t?
< 1260029188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error: 'long long long' is too long for GCC"
< 1260029193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, :D
< 1260029239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now of the opinion that C compilers should offer a bigint type.
< 1260029287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh
< 1260029316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the standard allows that :/
< 1260029335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh? as a pointer type surely?
< 1260029358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not as a simple type obviously
< 1260029361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, of course, but then all the regular operations would need functions :/
< 1260029369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long
< 1260029369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefixes[sizeof PREFIX_NAMES][2];
< 1260029373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, or would they?
< 1260029380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefixes['M']['i']
< 1260029383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefixes['M']['\0']
< 1260029384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil? Yes.
< 1260029387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool? Yes.
< 1260029392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I suppose an implementation could make a type implemented internally as a pointer
< 1260029405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it needs to be that sizeof + 1.
< 1260029408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Ki.
< 1260029435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the amount of work that would require is probably not worth it
< 1260029601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I've written prefix_value and unit_value in C.
< 1260029607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty good so far.
< 1260029692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use unsigned long, but I need to use -1 as an error code.
< 1260029699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, C. Fuck you and your lack of convenient error handling.
< 1260029765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'd say that lack of convenient error handling is C's #1 flaw.
< 1260029779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it just had a convenient tuple type ... it's just the same as a struct...
< 1260029822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T1, T2+) is a type the same as struct {T1 _1; T2 _2; ...}. If you write "(a, b+) = tuple;", it extracts the values. If you use _ as a name, the value is discarded.
< 1260029824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End of.
< 1260029831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, now your erroring functions look like:
< 1260029848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(long, int)
< 1260029849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might_fail(void)
< 1260029852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you use them like:
< 1260029859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foolhardy, _) = might_fail();
< 1260029859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1260029863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(safe, err) = might_fail();
< 1260029868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that really so difficult?!
< 1260029920 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it looks convenient, so no
< 1260029924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260029926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260029931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1260029949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do it a bit with cpp, I think.
< 1260029966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, tuples. Not triples and beyond.
< 1260029971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without defining a separate macro.
< 1260029979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and with gcc's typeof.
< 1260030030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define tuple(x, y) ((struct{typeof(x) a; typeof(y) b;}){(x),(y)})
< 1260030085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extract requires a temporary variable, though.
< 1260030139 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260030323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone worked on an implementation of TURKEY BOMB apart from ais523? Didn't think so.
< 1260030359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ais523 came up with a turing-complete interpretation of the spec.
< 1260030426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1260030439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why O_o?
< 1260030445 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260030453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/turkeyb/doc/turkeyb.html is what I'm referring to.
< 1260030462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[AMICED
< 1260030462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conceptual quantum state of information.
< 1260030462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negative six sevenths of a decimal digit.]]
< 1260030464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a tricky one
< 1260030470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais had a NEGATIVE_AMICED type instead
< 1260030475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and negated all operations on it
< 1260030508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING is also a tricky one, I'd do void *PUDDING = 0;
< 1260030512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the size should be infinite
< 1260030518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all of the memory is close to infinite as it gets
< 1260030525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as an unknowable value goes, just don't let the program at it
< 1260030551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and HYBRID OBTAINED BY COMBINING without WITH GUSTO has to be the average of the sizes of the two types.
< 1260030562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck figuring out which fields to include.
< 1260030590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB itself should just be a pointer to TURKEY BOMB.
< 1260030624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be ultra-spec-compliant:
< 1260030664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct TURKEY_BOMB {
< 1260030664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct TURKEY_BOMB *referent;
< 1260030664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} TURKEY_BOMB;
< 1260030664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1260030665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY_BOMB.referent = &TURKEY_BOMB;
< 1260030712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you've got all the types, you have to infer the language itself from the paradigm and the operators.
< 1260030723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, try and figure out things like:
< 1260030725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[BI_IT BI_IT ? BI_IT BI_IT ? BI_IT BI_IT
< 1260030725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-argument trit operation; unfortunately the Ancient Texts seem unclear on what it actually does. (The closest English translation appears to be "take these trits three and meditate soundly upon them.")]]
< 1260030767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Attempts to deduce the existance of a HUMIDOR in the given PUDDING.]]
< 1260030768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that PUDDING has an unknowable value... but if we assume it's all of memory, it just works out whether any HUMIDORs exist.
< 1260030774 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260030785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ALL BUT EXPR
< 1260030785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating everything but EXPR.]]
< 1260030785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just keep a list of things not included in PUDDING.
< 1260030802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[WHEREFORE ART EXPR
< 1260030803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating the entire metaphysical nature of EXPR.]]
< 1260030803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a pointer to the internal representation of the value.
< 1260030816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[GARNISH PUDDING
< 1260030817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convolutes the PUDDING with recent context drawn from the program. The player holding the TURKEY BOMB must pass it off.]]
< 1260030817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a fucking clue.
< 1260030835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[IMAGINE PUDDING, PUDDING!
< 1260030836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a NOMENCLATURE indicating all the variables unchanged between two PUDDINGs.]]
< 1260030836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, a properly-specified operation."
< 1260030845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perform iterative cypher transformation of set of names." is kinda vague.
< 1260030866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody be interested!
< 1260030996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Stop being all O_o!
< 1260031176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BI_IT is (2/3)+(log(3)/log(2)/2) bits...
< 1260031183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~= 1.46 bits.
< 1260031233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := log(432)/log(64)
< 1260031326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A composite quantum state of information."
< 1260031345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the thing to do is to store the 2/3rds of a bit as one byte, and the half a trit as one byte too.
< 1260031486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives the struct members one-character names as otherwise they'd be really long
< 1260031515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh great, I have to have type tags too.
< 1260031555 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260031799 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260031859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagHYBRID_OBTAINED_BY_COMBINING
< 1260031929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exactly fifteen bytes, no exceptions."
< 1260031930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, so you need 5-byte pointers.
< 1260031983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just change the size of a byte
< 1260031990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1260031996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'll do is
< 1260031999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one byte is 8/15ths of a bit
< 1260032005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char p1,p2,p3,p4,p5;
< 1260032021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lower/upper/whatever bits of each are a few bits of the pointer.
< 1260032030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just pad it out, but it doesn't say pad anywhere.
< 1260032045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The type is "TRIVIA CONCERNING type", "Three references: one to an object of the named type, two to TRIVIA objects.")
< 1260032080 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260032112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1260032113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"two to TRIVIA objects"
< 1260032123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that means two TRIVIA CONCERNING objects, or two TRIVIA objects.
< 1260032138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems pretty clear to me
< 1260032151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Excuse me, have you read http://catseye.tc/projects/turkeyb/doc/turkeyb.html?
< 1260032155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing in there is clear.
< 1260032179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("A fraction whose numerator is a perfect square of a perfect square and whose denominator is a prime number whose ordinal position in the counting list of prime numbers is also prime.")
< 1260032231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG! Haskell 2010 removed n+k patterns!
< 1260032232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
< 1260032368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the worst part of turkey bomb is that since it translates some stuff about the drinking game into computer terms, you have to take note of the drinking game-related items in your implementation
< 1260033160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, coppro, seen http://killersmurf.blogspot.com/2009/11/typefuck.html?
< 1260033169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you like type/template-hacks + haskell
< 1260033663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bit-player.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/grid15r0a.png
< 1260033665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty
< 1260034431 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260035567 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260035585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur.
< 1260035603 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird
< 1260035605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup?
< 1260035771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sky!
< 1260035787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(page in `{find . | grep -v '^\./jsMath' | grep '\.html$'})
< 1260035787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : grep '' $page | sed 's!?title>!!g'
< 1260035787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss.
< 1260035790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sins I have committed:
< 1260035796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. "Parsing" HTML with a regexp
< 1260035807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have expected to commit more in such a rag-tag script.
< 1260035947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the and makes the visible instead. I am crazy.
< 1260036083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's kosher to do that.
< 1260036340 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260036625 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260036692 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur was actually asking for the supremum.
< 1260036760 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is e to the power of (pi times the square root of 163).
< 1260036879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o
< 1260037006 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1260037023 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont make me hurt you :|
< 1260037105 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. 67, not 163.
< 1260037176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if there was a minimalist, command-line, open-source symbolic calculation system with sane syntax.
< 1260037202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, somewhere where you could type things like e^(pi*sqrt(163)) and be able to calculate it to arbitrary precision.
< 1260037705 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you should write that utility.
< 1260037741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to, and it wouldn't be all that hard to write the core language. But writing all the mathematical functions that go on top? And then rewriting them efficiently?
< 1260037746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda lose interest at that point.
< 1260037759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, google does that.
< 1260037770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't.
< 1260037794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it isn't symbolic. For two, its set of operations and functions is extremely limited. For three, it cannot calculate to arbitrary precision.
< 1260037848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic math libraries inevitably become big and bulky
< 1260037864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a library, a language and core library.
< 1260037873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existing non-symbolic languages would be hell to use for symbolic stuff.
< 1260037882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't see why. Their overall size, sure; simply due to their coverage.
< 1260037886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the individual functions?
< 1260037896 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi can accept syntax like e^(pi*sqrt(163)), but obviously, GHCi isn't minimalist.
< 1260037902 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppo kinda like algebra text books? :P
< 1260037909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: That isn't symbolic nor arbitrary precision.
< 1260037916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Bulky because there are a bunch of features you inevitably want to accept, like retrieving the simplest form
< 1260037917 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be arbitrary precision.
< 1260037924 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^(pi*sqrt(163)) :: CReal
< 1260037927 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th algorithms of algebra are really realyl hard stuff
< 1260037929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Technically, yes; practically, no, because it's not symbolic!
< 1260037938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CReal is far more limited than a symbolic system.
< 1260037939 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean very involved in the basic case.. and then you have optimizations
< 1260037947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I disagree that you couldn't do it in an existing language; a language with sufficiently-descriptive operators and overloading could do it fine
< 1260037947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can actually compare symbolic things for equality, for instance.
< 1260037956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with these people thinking a symbolic mathematics environment is the same as a calculator?!
< 1260037962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but not as comfortably.
< 1260037984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose GHCi could handle that symbolically as well.
< 1260037985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, "a*pi*asdjads" giving that back instead of an undefined-name error? Not likely in a normal language.
< 1260037992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^(pi*sqrt(163)) :: Expr, or something.
< 1260037998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Thus showing you don't know what making a symbolic environment entails — see above.
< 1260038039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I claim that GHCi would accept strings like a*pi*asdjads?
< 1260038053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I did; my conception of what "symbolic" means keeps changing.
< 1260038074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: For instance, aside from the awkwardness of a lack of operators, you could do symbolic C++ pretty easily.
< 1260038090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird
< 1260038094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qs can almost do this
< 1260038100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1260038152 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write a QS plugin
< 1260038181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QS?
< 1260038185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No, it can't almost do this, at all.
< 1260038188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even remotely.
< 1260038197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Quicksilver.
< 1260038203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X thing. It's for combining data and stuff.
< 1260038212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260038230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can type into qs _some_ stuff
< 1260038231 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1260038235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like there's a calculate action that you can give 2+2, you can search the system for a file then email it to someone in one chain (like "somethinginthefilenameemailsome name").
< 1260038239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing even remotely related to this.
< 1260038242 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=sqrt(3^2 + 4^2)
< 1260038245 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and itll spit out 5
< 1260038248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Pretty easily, but it'd be uncomfortable to use.
< 1260038254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THAT'S CALLED A FUCKING CALCULATOR >_<
< 1260038264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: That sounds like my Alt-F2
< 1260038270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Excel :P
< 1260038287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, it would be uncomfortable for complex maths
< 1260038299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know ehird
< 1260038302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then on the other side of things, there's software like Sage
< 1260038310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is so ridiculously complex that you almost explode
< 1260038316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but calculator should be able to get everything but the pi part in e^(pi*sqrt(163))
< 1260038342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you know that sage is shit because it has its own livecd :)
< 1260038342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: INCORRECT.
< 1260038342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Not to arbitrary precision.
< 1260038343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except e^x would have to be exp(x)
< 1260038343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, i cant get =exp(2) to work...
< 1260038345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is why you should create a math plugin!
< 1260038346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not symbolically, so that the expression itself can be modified and compared.
< 1260038351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Why?
< 1260038361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be using OS X soon enough, and you could easily do it by making something that calls out to my tool.
< 1260038362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because qs is the new commandline 8D
< 1260038374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embedding software of massive complexity into such a prison is stupid.
< 1260038381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're switching to a nix machine?
< 1260038382 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1260038396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom-assembled Linux.
< 1260038399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing like most distros.
< 1260038412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer to my perfect OS than OS X.
< 1260038436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do tell.
< 1260038454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be using minimalist, Unixy tools, so that the command-line and the filesystem actually become a viable tool for approaching the ehirdOS linguistic interface ideal.
< 1260038455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. That distro you've been talking about.
< 1260038456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260038461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIKHQ
< 1260038463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPERT MEMORISER
< 1260038549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: incidentally, the LiveCD litmus test also works for rejecting Asterisk
< 1260038576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is clearly shit then
< 1260038632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux isn't a program.
< 1260038770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sitemap script written in the rc shell. Well, that's a first.
< 1260038784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying to get my shit together and actually publish some stuff on the interwebnets.)
< 1260039058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure making an element in visible is a sin of some kind.
< 1260039110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1260039116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260039133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attempting to manually write the pages, and the overhead I have with gone is just a few simple lines
< 1260039147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1260039155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEVER THE TITLE IS
< 1260039156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...content...
< 1260039171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott Hird
< 1260039172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260039174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*html
< 1260039192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only ones I have to "remember" are the stylesheet and address lines, as i know the rest
< 1260039213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it feels a bit weird as i have to make itself visible, then hide everything inside , then unhide ...
< 1260039483 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260039574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1260039574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilution 1:10^60 - On average, this would require giving two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient
< 1260039575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilution 1:10^400 - Dilution of popular homeopathic flu remedy Oscillococcinum
< 1260039575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1260039654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oscillococcinum"? What the fuck does that mean?
< 1260039660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oscillating cock"?
< 1260039710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds MEDICAL!
< 1260039714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be MEDICINE!
< 1260039891 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260040038 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oscillo-: a prefix formed from "oscillating". Coccus: spherical bacterium. -In: a diminutive suffix. -Um: a Latin accusative suffic.
< 1260040055 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it means "little oscillating spherical bacterium".
< 1260040088 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, -inum is a cute medicinal prefix, chosen in emulation of "platinum", which means "little silver".
< 1260040174 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260040860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides he probably doesn't like the title-is-a-visible-element thing, considers reverting it back
< 1260041028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand, writing out the title manually is bothersome. Gawd, I'm so indecisionful.
< 1260041241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260041434 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260042001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises his sitemap sorts in alphabetical order...
< 1260042001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...on the filename
< 1260042712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't fix it; it will be fascinating.
< 1260042817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: But it'll be quite annoying. "A defence of preemptive mutitasking" will appear under p, since it is preemptive.html.
< 1260042817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260042830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only need a sitemap because I'm eschewing on-page navigational aids, anyway.
< 1260042838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's just for simplicity.
< 1260042857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may not even need a sitemap, if I can make the off-page navigational aids compelling and useful enough.
< 1260042875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I think I'm tempted to write that symbolic tool.
< 1260042907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is that, like quantumEd said, the basic algebra algorithms I'd have to implement efficiently would be a huge bitch.
< 1260042998 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, wait, you're making a web site?
< 1260043002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and even the simplest things like an algorithm to calculate pi efficiently to theh Nth place in any base are a bitch.
< 1260043012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes; I'm trying to get my act together and start publishing stuff online.
< 1260043028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote http://sprunge.us/RMJD for it.
< 1260043051 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you didn't reply sarcastically.
< 1260043077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling in a particularly unsarcastic mood right now.
< 1260043096 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange.
< 1260043103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any particular reason why you asked me?
< 1260043105 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how to take advantage of this situation.
< 1260043115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I was interested in looking at it.
< 1260043183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually written anything more than http://sprunge.us/RMJD for it, so imagine the *text in asterisks* is bold, the underlined text is heading-sized and bold, and it's all in a non-monospaced font.
< 1260043184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taraaa!
< 1260043319 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads.
< 1260043327 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your conclusion is probably correct in most cases.
< 1260043368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what cases is it incorrect?
< 1260043399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of embedded systems as one: all tasks are generally from the same source, and resources are limited enough that minimising unnecessary task-switching is a big plus.
< 1260043402 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one process legitimately decides that it needs a lot of processing power for a little while.
< 1260043417 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, that.
< 1260043493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Most systems nowadays are multi-core or even multi-CPU.
< 1260043519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A task can be dedicated to a CPU and have it to itself while the other tasks switch on the other coress.
< 1260043521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cores
< 1260043523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dedicated to a core
< 1260043556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that advantage isn't big enough to make up for the effort. Today's supercomputing is done on systems that use preemptive multitasking, and it works fine.
< 1260043566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1260043572 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not really contradicting each other, here.
< 1260043590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1260043600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the average salary for a Haskell job is $198,000.
< 1260043605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice.
< 1260043704 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost anomalously nice.
< 1260043728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a very specialised skill and not many people want it.
< 1260043731 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gee, that word looks a lot like a misspelling.)
< 1260043746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Companies like Galois do heavy-duty reliable systems and the like, so that's high-salary already.
< 1260043765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also happen to be one of the main users of, and contributors to, Haskell.
< 1260043773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, yeah."
< 1260043982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww; nhttpd appears to not be able to look up foo.html when /foo does not exist.
< 1260044000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't get nice urls like http://domain.org/preemptive for preemptive.html.
< 1260044267 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does an HTTP response tell you what the filename is?
< 1260044318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260044320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1260044458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl's queries doth confuse.
< 1260045007 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can with Content-Disposition: Attachment; filename=blah.gif
< 1260045013 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or something like that)
< 1260045043 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, your browser then shows a download dialog instead of the actual file.
< 1260045241 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729863.txt?key=ywp02s8p8potpiakeo6q <- Parsec in C#. It's a lot uglier without full type inference. :(
< 1260045393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : addOp = ('+'.ToParser().Select>(c => (x, y) => x + y))
< 1260045394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | ('-'.ToParser().Select>(c => (x, y) => x - y));
< 1260045394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puke.
< 1260045413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have an opinion on digit separators in a symbolic mathematics language?
< 1260045422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering allowing 1,000,000 and the like, just with commas.
< 1260045422 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it can't infer Select's type parameter from the lambda expression :(
< 1260045428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Europeans can go fuck off yo)
< 1260045429 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering.
< 1260045447 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 1_000_000 is good enough
< 1260045463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: In a programming language, yes.
< 1260045466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a mathematics environment?
< 1260045486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that, getting a result like
< 1260045493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-(log(2)/1,063,382,396,627,932,698,323,045,648,242,756,608)
< 1260045494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back is obviously preferable to any other way of formatting the number
< 1260045497 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 timesOneThousandPlus 000 timesOneThousandPlus 000
< 1260045537 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what's log(1,000,000)? Computers don't have common sense :(
< 1260045562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I could require that to be log(1,000, 000) or whatever.
< 1260045566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, that is ugly.
< 1260045577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One option is spaces, but it's a non-option; spaces are multiplication.
< 1260045581 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for digit separators, I think ' is the most practical.
< 1260045596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: That's weirder than _, but might just work.
< 1260045598 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually in use, and I can't immediately think of any other use for it in math.
< 1260045608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derivative.
< 1260045635 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks for the people taking the derivatives of constants, I guess
< 1260045655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but numbers aren't functions. You *can't* take their derivative.
< 1260045667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, okay; ' it is.
< 1260045671 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, you know, you're in automatically-treat-things-as-being-of-different-types-land.
< 1260045691 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What's {1, 2, 3} + 5? {6, 7, 8}, of course.)
< 1260045711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works in Mathematica, and probably other environments too.
< 1260045730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more sets/lists/whatever being magic, though,.
< 1260045732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though.
< 1260045739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1260045742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Depending on your definition, you can take their derivative; it's just monumentally unexciting.
< 1260045753 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't like that magic. Haskell likes to make that magic unnecessary.
< 1260045770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell fails at it, at least in this context.
< 1260045798 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (+ 5) [1, 2, 3]
< 1260045814 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can conceive of a less faily way to do that.
< 1260045878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not How Things Work, though. You don't have to explicitly specify that, but in Haskell you do.
< 1260045899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself trying to avoid Mathematica's names for things, even when they're good.
< 1260045901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop that, stupidhird.
< 1260045932 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My inner math platonist says that in most cases, Things Work How Haskell works.
< 1260045952 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Math platonists are silly.)
< 1260046109 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260046199 0 :lifthrasiir!i=58O9BYj3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260046218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. I can't get Mathematica to give me a number without a x 10^-foo at the end.
< 1260046221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard, Mathematica.
< 1260046332 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply every number by 10^10^10.
< 1260046364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, shush. :P
< 1260046412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a concession to computerism by representing the multiplication sign as *.
< 1260046415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, x; you're ambiguous.
< 1260046446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that (10**10)**10 or 10**(10**10)?
< 1260046468 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^10^10 is 10^(10^10) because (10^10)^10 is 10^(10*10).
< 1260046475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how silly it is to put digit separators after the decimal point.
< 1260046491 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so silly that there's a practical reason not to.
< 1260046544 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that the convention after the decimal point is to use one every eight digits.
< 1260046554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:-P, btw)
< 1260046567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Mathematica does it.
< 1260046609 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260046618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which begs the question, should it be padded out?
< 1260046624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. -6.518'324'76 or -6.518'324'760?
< 1260046635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is more understandable but... feels like it's straying from the purpose of displaying a number.
< 1260046642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's no point putting a dud 0 there.
< 1260046711 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not padding it out gives you a certain feeling under certain circumstances, i.e. makes something clearer.
< 1260046722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729983.txt?key=rl9toh4jbce5llyo0eguba
< 1260046723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present to you an imaginary session with my tool.
< 1260046731 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes a really useless piece of information clearer, but at least it does make it clearer.
< 1260046745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ = result of last line, $$ = result of previous line
< 1260046751 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine if all traffic lights were white for the sake of elegance.
< 1260046753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably have up to $$$$
< 1260046764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe a function for everything prior
< 1260046792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how draw() will do for more complex expressions.
< 1260046802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly the code for that will be a bitch.
< 1260046810 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be kind of nice if your syntax allowed $ to be a function operating on itself when concatenated directly like that.
< 1260046813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need a whole layout system.
< 1260046819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: like $($)?
< 1260046828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, $ is just a regular identifier character
< 1260046834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantically $($), syntactically just $.
< 1260046841 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would probably be too complicated.
< 1260046844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactically just $$ you mean.
< 1260046845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have function multiplication = application.
< 1260046848 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mean.
< 1260046852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x → f(x)
< 1260046860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ $ → $($)
< 1260046882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even x f → a function taking y and returning f(x,y).
< 1260046892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do $ $ $ and have it... be ambiguous.
< 1260046895 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JCaAlrjV@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260046896 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traditionally, function multiplication is composition, since composition is actually associative. Then again, Haskell points out that f x meaning f(x) is really elegant.
< 1260046896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll scrap that idea.
< 1260046919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think having f g work as composition would be cool.
< 1260046920 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me why putting things next to each other means multiplication rather than addition or something.
< 1260046931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: For convenience in algebra when doing 2a and the like.
< 1260046944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess.
< 1260046948 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1260046950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it does, so that's how I'm doin' it.
< 1260046959 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math notation seems really arbitrary.
< 1260046964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1260046969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also quite pretty and convenient.
< 1260046988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I'm considering letting $ be both a value and a function somehow.
< 1260046990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Well, f (x) == f x in Haskell.
< 1260046996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So $ = $(1), $$ = $(2), etc.
< 1260047000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1260047005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (x,y), of course, is quite different from f x y.
< 1260047005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be $$ is a separate variable.
< 1260047019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But $(x) is the xth last line of history, and $ by itself is $(0).
< 1260047028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with that idea is that you can't pass around $ the function.
< 1260047039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This operation's going to have a symbol. This one's going to have a symbol, but it's going to be optional. This one's going to have a symbol that the operands go above and below instead of beside. This one's going to have a symbol that extends above the top of its operand. This one's not going to have a symbol at all.
< 1260047071 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's any point in trying to reinvent math notation. I suppose it is what computer systems do all the time.
< 1260047077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think division as two rows separated by a line was created to break up the unending linear monotony. :P
< 1260047104 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your FACE breaks up the linear monotony
< 1260047125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the word "division" to mean separation predated or postdated the use of a line separating two rows to represent division.
< 1260047239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[35]:= FullSimplify[
< 1260047239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a^n + b^n == c^n, {Element[a, Integers], Element[b, Integers],
< 1260047240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Element[c, Integers], Element[n, Integers], a > 0, b > 0, c > 0,
< 1260047240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n > 2}]
< 1260047240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[35]= False
< 1260047241 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi, seawolf.cis.orsum.edu." "Hey, munroe.nasa.gov. I've been having some ideas about math notation." "Great, can you send them to me raw on TCP port 12020?" "Well, they total 3.6 gigabytes. I think you'll want me to just explain them to you."
< 1260047248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematica: Yep, we know Fermat's Last Theorem."
< 1260047254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can calculate that in less than a second, us."
< 1260047271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: xD
< 1260047297 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about theorems is that in general, they're easier to verify than to find in the first place.
< 1260047307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You should click http://pastie.org/729983.txt?key=rl9toh4jbce5llyo0eguba because you are a bad person if you haven't.
< 1260047317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders draw()ing something more complex
< 1260047358 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How semblant of Mathematica.
< 1260047381 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder why we're allowed to say "semblant" instead of "resemblant" but not "semble" instead of "resemble".)
< 1260047416 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why is it pronounced "rezemble"? "Semblant" isn't pronounced that way, is it?)
< 1260047550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: How does it resemble Mathematica, other than being a symbolic mathematical computerthingy?
< 1260047557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, okay, D and N as function names.
< 1260047577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729994.txt?key=f2ktaru6ipl0umkusliusw
< 1260047578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should derivatives be drawn by default? YOUR OPINION IS MORE VALUABLE THAN SALT
< 1260047595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess one alternative I didn't list there is f'(x).
< 1260047629 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D \x (x^2) = 2 x
< 1260047631 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except probably not.
< 1260047648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of draw is that it uses ASCII smarts to draw the mathematical notation :P
< 1260047674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing it will be "fun"... I think it'll require an entire layout engine to handle nested expressions.
< 1260047674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the only notations that look like the inputs are the second and the fifth.
< 1260047687 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure the second is more common.
< 1260047720 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would something like (1/2)^3 draw as?
< 1260047736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec.
< 1260047741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll draw it.
< 1260047765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, looking like the input isn't a huge deal.
< 1260047774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is so that you can examine an expression... mathematically.
< 1260047806 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would the other notations handle D(x^2, x)?
< 1260047826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec, lemme handle the (1/2)^3 first.
< 1260047855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/729997.txt?key=0lv8wukto6chcghrhldzw
< 1260047858 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's Epigram's strange way of doing (1/2)^3, by the way: http://pastebin.ca/1703894
< 1260047864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would look like one of these, none of which are particularly satisfying.
< 1260047894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for your D(x^2, x) query.
< 1260047901 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reminiscent of the C++ library for representing numbers by box-drawing.
< 1260047903 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Unicode. :-P
< 1260047909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What does it do?
< 1260047917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I don't think there's a Unicode character that would help.
< 1260047940 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Box drawing characters!
< 1260047955 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bezier curves! Wait, no.
< 1260047980 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my favorite one there is the parentheses-only one, because it uses only parentheses.
< 1260048008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Incidentally, Mathematica's TraditionalForm does it as (rendering to ASCII here):
< 1260048018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2
< 1260048019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dx
< 1260048019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---
< 1260048019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dx
< 1260048025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the d being the actual funny curly d.
< 1260048042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles the f(x) case with s/x^2/f(x)/.
< 1260048052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the most common representation, actually.
< 1260048069 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a funny, curly way of drawing that.
< 1260048086 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can't find it, but it looks something like this: http://pastie.org/730002
< 1260048086 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the most common representation is d/dx with the thingy after it.
< 1260048098 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 3D one too.
< 1260048120 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, found it. http://www.xs4all.nl/~weegen/eelis/analogliterals.xhtml
< 1260048136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/730003.txt?key=z1fpulfpftxpnwckw4r9ma
< 1260048141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of curiosity, how does Epigram handle it?
< 1260048155 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: that's mighty strange.
< 1260048160 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how does Epigram handle what?
< 1260048168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The derivative.
< 1260048195 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not for math, so it doesn't have any syntax for that.
< 1260048263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that Epigram.
< 1260048276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/730005.txt?key=vzaayu7at3t3lfvthl8q
< 1260048282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final contendors for derivative drawing.
< 1260048318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like them all equally, I think. I think I very marginally prefer dx to d x, but the skewed alignment caused by using dx almost cancels that out.
< 1260048340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, there probably won't be any way of actually parsing draw()s output. I'm not *that* crazy.
< 1260048448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Any vote?
< 1260048453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 is probably the leasst conventional notation.
< 1260048456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*least
< 1260048461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That biases me against it, but it is rather clean.
< 1260048476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, imagine if the derivatived expression contains a division.
< 1260048483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 would look really weird, but the others wouldn't.
< 1260048486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, #2 might.
< 1260048517 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My instant runoff vote: 3, 1, 2.
< 1260048574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant runoff voting is amusingly useless when you're the only voter.
< 1260048606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason you prefer #3 to #2? It's more conventional to have no space, but it's also conventional to, you know, not actually use the Latin letter "d"; and the space helps align the top line.
< 1260048611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is weirder-looking, though, I admit.
< 1260048626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fan of 4 and 5 I see.
< 1260048652 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 looks kind of like a guy standing in a really awkward pose.
< 1260048663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are strange.
< 1260048669 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat, yes.
< 1260048685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts in a fun division into the equation to test each one.
< 1260048701 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's conventional to not actually use the Latin letter "d"?
< 1260048704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, and a power.
< 1260048707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You use the weird curly d.
< 1260048719 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only sometimes.
< 1260048739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An actual, ordinary d is more common.
< 1260048760 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, ordinary d is the total derivative (a.k.a. "the derivative"), and curly d is the partial derivative.
< 1260048781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, #1 fails horribly trying to do D(f(x)/g(2^x), x).
< 1260048790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Hmm, right, that's just Mathematica fucking with me.
< 1260048802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I'll represent le partiality in ASCII.
< 1260048851 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?d, because ? vaguely resembles a curling iron.
< 1260048862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Another poll (I hope your IRC is monospaced for this):
< 1260048869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( x)
< 1260048869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(2 )
< 1260048870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1260048874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x
< 1260048875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(2 )
< 1260048885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first looks weird to me, the second very slightly confusing.
< 1260048928 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second definitely has confusion potential.
< 1260048934 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe not.
< 1260048943 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is bigger, so it's better.
< 1260048962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, the first one is really hard to read IMO.
< 1260048979 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?
< 1260049034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1260049036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/730013.txt?key=r1dtedsmra4rfjswrynhq
< 1260049045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which all of them fail horribly.
< 1260049050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the first line has a repetition there.
< 1260049051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore it.
< 1260049076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say 2 and 3 fared the best there; 1 the worst.
< 1260049100 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 could definitely fare better.
< 1260049113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a subscript following the D, not preceding the expression.
< 1260049140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is.
< 1260049142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me fix that.
< 1260049163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll notice I added more spacing to all of them but one.
< 1260049180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the layout engine will, when confronted with putting a division or other block next to another thing, add another space.
< 1260049205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/730017.txt?key=vxyaitcstugqz67yca1bw
< 1260049207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed version.
< 1260049215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 does quite well now; about as well as 2 and 3.
< 1260049225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 and 3 are still more common notations, I believe.
< 1260049261 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the first three better than the last two, because they go before the expression rather than around it.
< 1260049274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby taking up less room and staying out of the way.
< 1260049287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree; the last two suck gigantic donkey balls. To use a metaphor.
< 1260049300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to rank 1-3?
< 1260049323 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as before, I think. 3, 1, 2.
< 1260049328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Concur is like conquer without a q, and it has a c, and doesn't have that e between those two letters at the end."
< 1260049333 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, you know, they're not really different.
< 1260049342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're exactly the same layout-wise.
< 1260049344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a different prefix.
< 1260049361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different from how they were before you made it fractiony, I mean.
< 1260049371 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the words are pronounced differently and mean different things.
< 1260049384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are different.
< 1260049457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Do you think I should make the layout engine able to output to multiple different formats? It seems like at the end of it, the conversion to ASCII would be a relatively small part.
< 1260049465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all hypothetical right now, of course.
< 1260049477 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, really? You're telling me that these differently-spelled, differently-pronounced words that mean different things are *different*?
< 1260049506 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably would be a good idea to make the layout engine able to output to multiple different formats, in the end.
< 1260049517 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would think you should do more necessary things first.
< 1260049522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw() will probably be like half the code :-P
< 1260049537 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260049541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to do conditionals
< 1260049550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica-style if(a,b,c) seems so ugly, but it is rather orthogonaly.
< 1260049647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with "if x then y else c"?
< 1260049656 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Notice my clever choice of letters.)
< 1260049735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spends a few minutes trying to find a relevant quote
< 1260049850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up.
< 1260049945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders product().
< 1260050018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sum(), by extension.
< 1260050020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(n) := product(k, 1, n, k) Not enough definition.
< 1260050020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(n) := product(k := 1, n, k) Weird use of assignment syntax.
< 1260050020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(n) := product(k := {1, n}, k) That's not actually what it's assigning k to.
< 1260050020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(n) := product(k, {1, n}, k) I can wrap arguments in braces, too.
< 1260050149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I think I will adopt if x then y else c as the if syntax.
< 1260050158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just be sugar for if(x,y,c). I think.
< 1260050359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My function argument syntax doesn't allow for pattern matching on symbolic arguments. Mathematica solves this by making you mark every variable argument by suffixing it with _, but I don't like that
< 1260050365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe {} means match.
< 1260050367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So:
< 1260050375 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260050379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo({bar}) := quux
< 1260050379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(bar) := bar
< 1260050388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(bar) → quux
< 1260050389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(xyzzy) → xyzzy
< 1260050426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of identical factorials: http://pastie.org/730035.txt?key=cjgts9swnsynq9tyfmociq
< 1260050438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last one is amusing.
< 1260050665 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :productAs \k goesFrom 1 to n of k
< 1260050668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop bothering you now.
< 1260050680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I don't consider that bothering.
< 1260050689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I used that definition is because I was mumbling on how to do product(). :P
< 1260050712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, an issue with your if syntax, or perhaps with my lack of semicolons: if you have
< 1260050718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact(n) := if n = 1 then 1
< 1260050723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know if the statement's over
< 1260050730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be an else on the next line
< 1260050746 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Would Haskell Do?
< 1260050765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a very complex, hard-to-code-without-an-editor layout system.
< 1260050805 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what Agda would do.
< 1260050818 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more languages should have "easy to code without an editor" as a design goal
< 1260050828 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe just having semicolons is what you should do.
< 1260050849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: But that bothers you when you just want to calculate 2+2 and the like.
< 1260050856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it gives an impression of statement-ness to expressions.
< 1260050882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I'm not sure that's true. It is a goal for mine, though, because the primary use is via the command-line tool.
< 1260050884 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't have to be an actual semicolon; it could be the word "please". :-P
< 1260050934 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have no such thing as statements, and make every program be one huge expression!
< 1260050935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, it would be interesting to have an implementation that used an HTTP server to serve a little HTML+CSS+JS page with a prompt ajaxin' to /evaluate (or whatever), so that all the draw()-style output becomes HTML tables and the like.
< 1260050947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep soon.
< 1260050954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: There are no such things as statement.
< 1260050962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*statements
< 1260050976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a;b is just an expression that evaluates a, disregards the result, and evaluates b.
< 1260050986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And expressions can be empty, so you can do {a;b;c;}.
< 1260051044 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you've already implemented my suggestion! Scary1
< 1260051052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/1/!/
< 1260051063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the obvious thing to do. Even Ruby does it.
< 1260051106 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, I just got a rather silly idea: plaintext markup syntax stuff.
< 1260051116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean... HTML?
< 1260051131 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would render to ASCII art.
< 1260051143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1260051147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3m -dump
< 1260051212 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xn-n!
< 1260051252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be basically what the internal data structures of my layout engine will have.
< 1260051359 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the sizes of rectangles be determined entirely bottom-up-ly, or will there be some top-down-ness as well?
< 1260051416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, verbosify.
< 1260051449 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you share my idea of what a "rectangle" is?
< 1260051484 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot like HTML's blocks. Rectangular shapes that the stuff is made of.
< 1260051506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expand bottom-up-ly, top-down-ness, determining of sizes of rectangles.
< 1260051529 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260051566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I have some subexpression. Will the dimensions of its bounding rectangle be determined entirely by the subexpression itself or also its surroundings?
< 1260051626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entirely by the subexpression itself. However, the dimensions of the parent, and spacing of the surroundings, will change.
< 1260051654 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260051798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that hypothetical HTTP/HTML/CSS/JS interface I mentioned, it should have an interface to the documentation so that you can click on an example and it switches to the prompt, with the example filled in.
< 1260052207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It bothers me that the simple stuff is so subtle.
< 1260052216 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes me want to work on my project thing. And when I think "work on my project", I think "figure out how to formalize functions".
< 1260052222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that means the complex stuff won't just be complex, it'll be incredibly subtle.
< 1260052230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Symbolically!
< 1260052241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manipulating symbolic expressions is both slow and elegant and useful
< 1260052245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1260052258 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, symbolically.
< 1260052297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a function is just an expression with a free variable.
< 1260052329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, free expression; f(x) could be a free expression if x is defined but f(x) isn'tt.
< 1260052334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling a function is just applying a table of expression→expression.
< 1260052342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. f(x)=x^2.
< 1260052368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more traditional function = parameter list + expression; parameter list is turned into a table in the obvious way and applied to the expression.
< 1260052370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1260052379 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be theoretically sound, since my project is centered on a theorem prover.
< 1260052392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, just theoreticise my statements.
< 1260052394 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a function were just an expression with a free variable, there wouldn't even be uncountably many functions.
< 1260052410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, why not?
< 1260052419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One or more free expressions.
< 1260052427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in fact, a function is an expression.
< 1260052438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that you can't really do a meaningful replacement without a free expression.
< 1260052446 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could say that a function is an expression with two free variables combined with a set that fills one of them in.
< 1260052452 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1260052461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why two? Why free variable (that's not symbolic)?
< 1260052467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need free expression for f(x).
< 1260052494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in f(2), we can fill in f(2) -> 4 or f({placeholder x}) -> x*2 and get 4 back.
< 1260052509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how symbolic computation works: everything is a rewrite rule.
< 1260052516 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260052526 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a pet function named Bob. For every real number x, Bob(x) is a real number taken randomly from the standard normal distribution.
< 1260052534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "functions" as separate objects per se, although of course you can pass f and then the function does f(x) and since f rewrites to SomeFunction it becomes SomeFunction(x).
< 1260052554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *definitely* want functions to be values here.
< 1260052555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If functions are a thing in themselves, e.g. in the lambda calculus, it's not symbolic.
< 1260052564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Boo hiss.
< 1260052576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, symbolic languages can have lambdas too, they're just done as a rewriting rule. :P
< 1260052590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want S -> T to actually be a type, because it means something as a mathematical sentence.
< 1260052598 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely, "S implies T".)
< 1260052605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's done as a rewrite rule of lambda(x,y)(z) to replace(x,z,y)
< 1260052614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does the replacement thingy from lambda-calculus
< 1260052625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, this isn't suitable for a theorem prover
< 1260052691 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260052728 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260052857 0 :jpc!n=jw@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260052865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, musing about this sure is fun. I guess if I get off my ass and spend peopleyears (Post-feminist adaptation of manyears, dude. I mean, uh, ... associate.) of work on it, it might be a viable alternative to... an old version of Mathematica.
< 1260052880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, all I want is a fun symbolic computation environment that isn't really weird like Mathematica and isn't really archaic like Axiom and the like.
< 1260052883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Maxima.
< 1260052885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you for today.
< 1260052928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260053766 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260057213 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260059147 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260060063 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260060241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the logs have changed their timezone...
< 1260060432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like they moved to china...
< 1260060448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either that, or perth
< 1260060517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, perth would have daylight saving
< 1260060612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1260060628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is confusing. as is perth.
< 1260060636 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oranges are too
< 1260060646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A referendum held on May 19 2009 concluded that daylight saving will not be held in the future."
< 1260060890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut
< 1260060916 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260060932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there _may_ be a few other insignificant countries in that time zone
< 1260061906 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260062894 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260063470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260065093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wonder how draw() will do for more complex expressions. <<< actually it's pretty simple to do it, basically you just do dynamic programming on expressions, and for each, store the size of the bounding box for the pic, combining them is just a matter of trivial.
< 1260065357 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Remind me why putting things next to each other means multiplication rather than addition or something. <<< it's because of a(b + c) = ab + ac; a + bc = (a + b)(a + c) looks too aggressive!
< 1260065397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, the latter one can't be correct. err...
< 1260065418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, was that with no operator = + ?
< 1260065434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you use + too
< 1260065616 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The thing about theorems is that in general, they're easier to verify than to find in the first place. <<< yes, but that's not what mathematica can do, it can *use* the theorem.
< 1260065659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, your client uses : for what someone said?
< 1260065662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing
< 1260065702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: because it is often used to address someone (like this, though I set my client to use , normally for tab completion)
< 1260065864 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260065902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, anyway, how is a + bc = (a + b)(a + c) supposed to work? What was the implicit operator there?
< 1260065942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of +-/* works
< 1260066000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh well, all I want is a fun symbolic computation environment that isn't really weird like Mathematica and isn't really archaic like Axiom and the like.
< 1260066000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And Maxima.
< 1260066001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260066005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with maxima?
< 1260066039 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Uh, why not? <<< because there is a countable amount of pairs like that, consider a base 257 number, each function can be considered a distinct number in that base => at most |N| functions
< 1260066149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's confusing
< 1260066167 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it confused someone just the other day
< 1260066186 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklofok, anyway, how is a + bc = (a + b)(a + c) supposed to work? What was the implicit operator there? <<< reversing addition and multiplication
< 1260066233 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that starts looking natural after doing a bit of boolean algebra, it isn't exactly inferior in any way
< 1260066269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah yeah
< 1260066278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so + means "times"?
< 1260066279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1260066315 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's just distributivity of * over +, a(b + c) = ab + ac
< 1260066338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so you say "(a + b)(a + c)" would be same as normal "ac+ab"?
< 1260066348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you missed one c above
< 1260066360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1260066389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1260066416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if xy = yx, then yes
< 1260066427 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise just ab+ac
< 1260066447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, just that I think it should be "ac" not "a" in the first term in: a + bc = (a + b)(a + c)
< 1260066462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1260066476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this uncommon notation sure is confusing!
< 1260066523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh wait, you said boolean algebra?
< 1260066587 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab + bc would be (a + b)(b + c) in normal notation = (a + b)(c + b) = ac + ab + bc + b^2, which in reversed notation is (a + c)(a + b)(b + c)(b + b)
< 1260066590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, that's not the same
< 1260066598 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that's not what i meant
< 1260066626 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reverse notations, reversed a + bc is normal a(b + c) = ab + ac, which is reversed (a + b)(a + c)
< 1260066638 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in boolean algebra, it's directly a rule
< 1260066645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is a V (b ^ c) = (a V b) ^ (a V c) which seems.... almost but not quite correct? (^ doesn't work too well there... but can't be bothered to find the unicode codepoint)
< 1260066668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right
< 1260066716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I always had problems remembering that law: if it was ^ or V that went between them
< 1260066719 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use ^ and V, it's less confusing because the symmetry is more visible
< 1260066724 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both.
< 1260066744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything that is true in boolean algebra is true if you reverse them
< 1260066745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well yeah but I mean if: a V (b ^ c) = (a V b) ^ (a V c) or V (b ^ c) = (a ^ b) V (a ^ c)
< 1260066755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reverse constant 1's and 0's
< 1260066758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ^
< 1260066791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/or /or a /
< 1260066791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260066812 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright think of it like this
< 1260066838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in "a V (b ^ c)", you're doing "a and (expression of b and c)"
< 1260066857 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you just do the "a and" thing inside the expression instead of doing it to the result
< 1260066871 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get expression of (a and b) and (a and c)
< 1260066872 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260066873 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1260066882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260066894 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's helpful, i just think of it as outside => inside
< 1260066894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260066900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is and in both cases
< 1260066905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was mixing and and or
< 1260066927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in "a V (b ^ c)", you're doing "a and (expression of b and c)" <-- is actually: a or (b and c)
< 1260066929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "a V (b ^ c) = (a ^ b) V (a ^ c)" <<< this here makes no sense
< 1260066953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry
< 1260066979 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ^ (b ^ c) = (a ^ b) ^ (a ^ c) is also a valid rule
< 1260066997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well yes. But that again isn't the same as discussed here
< 1260067013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was mixing ^ and V
< 1260067077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, this is the distributivity stuff I'm talking about.
< 1260067091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is probably a V (b ^ c) = (a V b) ^ (a V c) then
< 1260067117 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the point is the expression does not change
< 1260067124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well yes...
< 1260067125 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was still clear from what i said, but apparently not
< 1260067147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it is just something I trouble memorizing for tests and such.
< 1260067151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had*
< 1260067171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. you do know a(b + c) = ab + ac right?
< 1260067198 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that's really the exact same rule, it's just in boolean algebra you can put * = and, + = or, or just as well + = and, * = or
< 1260067203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well yes, that is trivial in normal math. the issue is in boolean algebra and "whatever the English name is for the ^ and V notation"
< 1260067245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260067296 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a(b + c) = ab + ac, put ^=*, V=+ and you get a ^ (b V c) = (a ^ b) V (a ^ c)
< 1260067309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1260067319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, that was most helpful indeed
< 1260067381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but (a+b)(c+d) doesn't work the same as in "normal" math does it?
< 1260067422 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+b)(c+d) meaning (a V b) ^ (c V d) or what do you mean?
< 1260067429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about (a+b)(a-b) = aa-bb
< 1260067436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well yes
< 1260067452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, which would expand to (in normal math):
< 1260067470 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works the same, (a+b)(c+d) = a(c+d) + b(c+d) = ac + ad + bc + bd
< 1260067476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260067479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1260067516 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT also ab + ac = (a + ac)(b + ac) = (a + a)(a + c)(b + a)(b + c)
< 1260067544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I'm pretty sure rules don't work the same the other way though. not (a V b) = (not a) ^ (not b)
< 1260067550 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again probably easier to see how that works if you use ^ and V, i'm just not used to the notation
< 1260067556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, how would not translate?
< 1260067561 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+b)(a-b) = aa-bb <<< is this an axiom?
< 1260067563 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not.
< 1260067582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's -b anyway?
< 1260067590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm?
< 1260067590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-b is usually an element such that b + (-b) = 0
< 1260067600 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these do not exist in boolean algebra
< 1260067606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well, I meant (a+b)(a-b) == (a^2)-(b^2)
< 1260067618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true in normal math
< 1260067625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to remember rule.
< 1260067630 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's nonsensical in boolean algebra.
< 1260067644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an axiom of course, just follows as a result from other rules
< 1260067667 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but subtraction simply does not exist in boolean algebra
< 1260067673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1260067676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1260067731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of it like this, all objects are nonnegative, and less than one (not literally, just a mnemonic ofc), so addition always gets you closer to 1, and multiplication gets you away from it, towards 0
< 1260067740 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects = elements in your algebra
< 1260067765 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do know a boolean algebra is in fact any system whose elements follow these rules, and not just {0, 1} with some axioms added?
< 1260067767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you can't use the (a+b)^2 == a^2+2ab+b^2 rule either I think.
< 1260067819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+b)^2 = (a+b)(a+b) = a(a+b)+b(a+b) = aa + ab + ba + bb = a + b + ab, because both multiplication and addition are idempotent in BA
< 1260067837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't know that, ... = aa + bb + ab + ab
< 1260067848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you do know a boolean algebra is in fact any system whose elements follow these rules, and not just {0, 1} with some axioms added? <-- well yes, the same rules are at least in part shared with simple set theory
< 1260067867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do union = + and intersection = *
< 1260067907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and what's even more interesting (and, sadly, what makes finite boolean algebras uninteresting) is that in fact for each finite boolean algebra B, there is a set that's completely isomorphic to B
< 1260067928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1260067951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does finite/infinite mean in *this* specific context?
< 1260067978 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isomorphism just meaning one-to-one correspondence between elements, and multiplication and addition work the exact same way in both systems
< 1260067989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I know what isomorphism is.
< 1260067994 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same as always :)
< 1260067997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learnt it in graph theory stuff
< 1260068000 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Xeonidas
< 1260068001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite would be like {1, 2, 5}
< 1260068014 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite would be like N
< 1260068020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, as the set of possible values?
< 1260068023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in*
< 1260068042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formally, infinite <==> there is a proper subset that can be put in bijection with the original set
< 1260068074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh that's an interesting and very useful definition of infinite. You learn something new every day :)
< 1260068111 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically what a boolean algebra is is a set where you have some dudes, and you have these rules called "and", "or" and "not". the axioms just limit what sort of mappings they can form between the elements
< 1260068121 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite just means there's a finite amount of dudes
< 1260068138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, usually Mr. True and Miss False? ;P
< 1260068173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not "not", more like complement
< 1260068185 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you don't really need an actual operator for it
< 1260068185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but then what about the set of real numbers. Is there such a subset for it?
< 1260068223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe you can form a bijection without starting somewhere.
< 1260068252 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, we could take all numbers of the form bbbbb0,bbbbbb..., and just kinda move the b's before 0 one step to the right
< 1260068299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, how does this interact with cantor's diagonal argument?
< 1260068311 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr. true and mr. false would form the simplest nontrivial boolean algebra, but for any n there is a boolean algebra with 2^n dudes
< 1260068323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these are *the only finite boolean algebras*Ă„
< 1260068338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i meant by "for blah blah there's a set such that blah blah isomorphism"
< 1260068340 0 :Xeonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1260068342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm, I only worked with the true/false style boolean algebra
< 1260068352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did know there were other types
< 1260068359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just never came in contact with those
< 1260068373 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you knew sets also form a BA
< 1260068388 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260068396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, actually what I said was that I knew that the same rules worked.
< 1260068408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I knew *why* this was
< 1260068420 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260068426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this explains a lot
< 1260068429 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be more precise, if we have any set S whatsoever, and take the powerset 2^S, then if you define and as intersection and or as union, then a boolean algebra will be formed
< 1260068434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = S, 0 = {}
< 1260068443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice
< 1260068460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty even
< 1260068479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove the rules work is very simple, actually, you just have to prove a few things about unions and intersections
< 1260068497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? hard?
< 1260068507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "hard to prove those"
< 1260068523 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklofok, how does this interact with cantor's diagonal argument? <<< cantor's thing says there is no surjection N -> R, i proved there's a surjection "subset of R" -> R
< 1260068547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh right. But N is a subset of R
< 1260068560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right
< 1260068567 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not true that for all subsets Z of R, there is a surjection from Z to R
< 1260068570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all subsets might have such a surjection
< 1260068588 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider {}, it's a proper subset of R, but you can't map one of it's 0 elements to each element of R :P
< 1260068595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, would it be possible to construct such a set that for all subsets there is a surjection?
< 1260068611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is a big subset, and infinite one in fact; cantor's argument says it's still not big enough.
< 1260068615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yeah {}: All subsets of {} form a surjection against {}
< 1260068621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1260068622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are none
< 1260068629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes the whole thing pointless
< 1260068631 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260068635 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260068650 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that "hard to prove those" thing about
< 1260068659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, about " to prove the rules work is very simple, actually, you just have to prove a few things about unions and intersections"
< 1260068666 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say "hard"
< 1260068672 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "very simple"
< 1260068672 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260068676 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a slight difference
< 1260068684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, no, but you are in general way above my level in maths
< 1260068690 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260068697 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you meant
< 1260068703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260068738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what you consider trivial, I likely will consider "not too hard", what you consider "not too hard" I will likely go "huh?" at :P
< 1260068765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from the really trivial trivial bits)
< 1260068783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see, a(b + c) = ab + ac, with sets that's a \cap (b \cup c) = (a \cap b) \cup (a \cap c), well... do you even need a proof for that?
< 1260068808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're taking all elems that belong to either b or c
< 1260068808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1260068815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right latex. hm \cap is ^ and \cup = V right?
< 1260068819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we then remove all elems that belong to a
< 1260068831 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it doesn't matter whether we remove all elems of a before or after the union
< 1260068839 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just draw like a venn diagram
< 1260068859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasdo you even need a proof for that? <-- a venn diagram works just fine iirc.
< 1260068891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, argh you said that too a few lines below :P
< 1260068900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah I don't need a proof for that one
< 1260068918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for boolean algebra you can prove it with a truth table
< 1260069012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, if you want proof: a \cap (b \cup c) = {x | (x \in a) \and ((x \in b) \or (x \in c))} = {x | ((x \in a) \and (x \in b)) \or ((x \in a) \and (x \in c))} = (a \cap b) \cup (a \cap c), basically just open the definitions, and you're done
< 1260069028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fires up tex to render that
< 1260069057 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for the boolean algebra with 2 elements you could write down a truth table
< 1260069061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, \and?
< 1260069068 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly
< 1260069087 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see a mistake, but if there's an and, should be \and prolly
< 1260069102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in fact, for any finite boolean algebra, you can write a "truth table"
< 1260069110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, just lyx didn't like it. Not sure if it is there actually
< 1260069122 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously you can just check the rules work if you have a finite amount of elements
< 1260069142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole bit \and((x\in b)\or(x\in c))}={x|((x\in a)\and(x\in b))\or((x\in a)\and(x\in c))}=(a\cap b)\cup(a\cap c) doesn't render. Just silently cut off
< 1260069181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the usual boolean algebra 0, 1 is just the powerset of a set with one element, {a}, you just have one dude
< 1260069208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, makes sense
< 1260069233 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a unique boolean algebra on the power set {{}, {a}}, then the "1" of that algebra is {a}, and {} is 0
< 1260069248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm from this follows that there is a boolean algebra with just {} ?
< 1260069266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a degenerate case indeed
< 1260069272 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could say it's the trivial boolean algebra
< 1260069280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260069288 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in fact i think there's the rule 0 != 1
< 1260069289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260069306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh there has to be at least one element?
< 1260069360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the boolean algebra with just {}" is the algebra you get if you take the powerset of {}, that is, {{}}, it has just one element, which is both 1 and 0
< 1260069370 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty boolean algebra i suppose would be even more trivial
< 1260069377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having neither, set of dudes = {}
< 1260069390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure at least that is illegal
< 1260069404 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't have a set of axioms here, and this is really not that important :P
< 1260069428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260069572 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay there's a rule like "there has to be an element 1 with properties X"
< 1260069588 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the properties say it's the biggest object)
< 1260069589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260069593 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the algebra is empty
< 1260069617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "the boolean algebra with just {}" is the algebra you get if you take the powerset of {}, that is, {{}}, it has just one element, which is both 1 and 0 <-- that one is still valid?
< 1260069624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's false. because there's no element, there isn't an element 1, even if the properties X would be trivially true because there are no objects
< 1260069636 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260069646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite a useless one
< 1260069688 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but i find thinking about the degenerate cases usually makes math feel more concrete, sorta like programming vs. using programs
< 1260069714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, using programs being more concrete?
< 1260069738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, btw that thing above rendered as something that actually shows up as you expected it would be: $a\cap\left(b\cup c\right)=\left\{ x|\left(x\in a\right)AND\left(\left(x\in b\right)OR\left(x\in c\right)\right)\right\} =\left\{ x|\left(\left(x\in a\right)AND\left(x\in b\right)\right)OR\left(\left(x\in a\right)AND\left(x\in c\right)\right)\right\} =\left(a\cap b\right)\cup\left(a\cap c\right)$
< 1260069745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be no \and or \or
< 1260069764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, most importantly you forgot to escape the {}
< 1260069803 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260069815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like how programming makes you understand why programs don't always do what you want, maybe :)
< 1260069822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah
< 1260069891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) math is similar, the details and degenerates aren't actually that useful, but so aren't unfinished programs
< 1260069902 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno, feeling poetic maybe
< 1260069904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260069906 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should do stuff now
< 1260069913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yeah very deep and poetic
< 1260070001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway has been fun discussing these important elementary school matters with you :P
< 1260070019 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first attempt ->
< 1260070019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm btw is there a surjection between R and C?
< 1260070044 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260070048 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could take like
< 1260070062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1260070071 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bababab.bababa.... to (bbbb.bbbb..., aaaa.aaaa...)
< 1260070079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(real, imag)
< 1260070082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good idea
< 1260070100 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that works, there are two representations for each real so there might be complications
< 1260070119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, and there is the polar form
< 1260070120 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is
< 1260070121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb myself
< 1260070175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1260070185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what you mean is?
< 1260070200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to prove if we have some (bbbb.bbb..., aaaa.aaaa...), then there's a real that maps to it, but the problem is when we're finding what to map bababa.babab.... to, we might actually use another representation for that real, say bababa.ccccc..., and actually map it to (bbb.ccc...., aaa.cccc)
< 1260070203 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*...
< 1260070208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you follow this notation?
< 1260070213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean that 1+2i and 12+0i?
< 1260070230 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again the tuples are complex numbers (real, imag)
< 1260070231 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260070237 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that question mean?
< 1260070248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, forget it, was thinking backwards
< 1260070256 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say in binary, 0.1111... = 1.0000...
< 1260070263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260070296 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what "we map bababab.bababa.... to (bbbb.bbbb..., aaaa.aaaa...)" actually says is, given some real, we take a representation of it (one of the two), and map it to some complex number
< 1260070310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the complex number is different depending on the representation of the real we chose
< 1260070314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right
< 1260070315 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this is not even well-defined
< 1260070336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because using the two different representations, we could find two different complex numbers to which the function maps the real
< 1260070343 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions don't do that.
< 1260070349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, thus providing that C is larger than R?
< 1260070357 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean "proving"
< 1260070363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, err yeah
< 1260070364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260070368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy typo
< 1260070396 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this doesn't prove that. kinda like saying "the ill-defined function f(x) = 0 and 1 isn't a surjection between R and C, therefore C is bigger than R" doesn't prove shit
< 1260070423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260070450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there definitely *is* a surjection from R to C, and in fact i could just fix the error
< 1260070464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we take some base say base 1010010
< 1260070467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh?
< 1260070503 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, numbers that have 293 as their ith digit, map to complex numbers with 0 as their ith digit, and numbers that have 8544 as their ith digit, map to complex numbers with 1 as their ith digit
< 1260070510 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else can be chosen arbitrarily
< 1260070532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, for each complex number, we can construct a real number that has 293's and 8544's in the proper places
< 1260070558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 293 and 8544?
< 1260070571 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because both 293 and 8544 are in the middle of the interval [0, 1010010), there won't be any complications
< 1260070584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260070597 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers that only contain stuff from the "middle of the base", have unique representations, afaik
< 1260070605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1260070611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those were completely arbitrary, those numbers
< 1260070629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260070638 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's a surjection, but not a bijection, as you can probably see if you followed that
< 1260070662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.... right
< 1260070678 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just needed the function's values to be nice for numbers whose base 1010010 representation only contains 293's and 8544's
< 1260070685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what about constructing a bijection then?
< 1260070785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a relevant theorem i can't find
< 1260070799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260070822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway something like if there's a surjection both ways then there's a bijection
< 1260070829 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly there's a surjection from C to R
< 1260070835 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see it?)
< 1260070836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260070838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:P)
< 1260070856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just set the imaginary part to 0
< 1260070907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. well, technically R is a completely separate field, it doesn't even have imaginary parts. that's just how R is embedded into C.
< 1260070920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway the function that takes the real part
< 1260070921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right
< 1260070940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, not the one that returns the real part?
< 1260070950 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes returns
< 1260070955 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean takes from the number, and returns :P
< 1260070958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260070961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway second attempt coming soon.
< 1260070963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not takes (as argument)
< 1260070972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well cya. I shouldn't hold you up longer
< 1260070978 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes bad terminology
< 1260070981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has been very interesting :)
< 1260070996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya! ->
< 1260071129 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260073822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica sure is buggy... like altgr inserting space. Found a fix on google groups for it.
< 1260076144 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-166.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260078953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just invented a feather-like language I think
< 1260078996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least inspired by featuer
< 1260078998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather*
< 1260080441 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080447 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080447 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080447 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080447 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080449 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080449 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080449 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080449 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080452 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080496 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260080547 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-166.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080547 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080571 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260080603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh
< 1260083186 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260083653 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260084734 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-5-248.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260086399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260086400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260087050 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260087168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:40:22 well anyway something like if there's a surjection both ways then there's a bijection
< 1260087171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:40:29 clearly there's a surjection from C to R
< 1260087186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is an injection there is obviously a surjection the other way
< 1260087233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse is also true but probably requires the axiom of choice
< 1260087251 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! that's a shame because axiom of choice is true
< 1260087255 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack
< 1260087261 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't* I ruined that joke
< 1260087277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's independent. you can choose whether you include it.
< 1260087285 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ??
< 1260087290 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the axioms are independent
< 1260087333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. however it requires proof, which gödel and cohen provided for the axiom of choice at least (and the continuum hypothesis)
< 1260087337 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people so often point out when they use choice.. nobody says, ..but that requires axiom of powerset
< 1260087370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because choice is the only one which doesn't give you a unique thing you construct
< 1260087701 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole logic set theory is based on has that property
< 1260087754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well yeah choosing an element from a general set doesn't really give a unique thing either
< 1260087776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, but subtraction simply does not exist in boolean algebra
< 1260087812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use xor instead of union/or though
< 1260087825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's just a Z_2 module
< 1260087836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/module/vector space/
< 1260087860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait
< 1260087870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is not a vector space operation
< 1260087906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really mean, it's then a ring (boolean ring)
< 1260087908 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260087954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course addition = subtraction then
< 1260088301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc
< 1260089155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. hours ago. remind me
< 1260089179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyberspace. orcs.
< 1260089193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes indeed
< 1260089210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, I agree fully with the annotation
< 1260089288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and D&D was rather funny today
< 1260089382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found it a bit grating, actually, pete being _too_ exaggerated
< 1260089409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, i guess that's what you need to get jim to actually start noticing...
< 1260089449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opinions on mathematica after having spent some time playing around with it: incredibly buggy, three serious usability isssues, was possible to work around two of them. It also crashes a lot.
< 1260089469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax is somewhat strange and I still haven't found out why function parameters need to end with _
< 1260089475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not buy again.
< 1260089497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yeah, having to rotate a 3D plot to be able to see it is rather annoying
< 1260089509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the one serious issue that I have not found any working workaround for
< 1260089515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoosh*
< 1260089537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I decided to ignore that joke. xkcd reference right?
< 1260089576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm xkcd used it (that bobcat thing), but i thought it was a meme...
< 1260089602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most simple purposes I have to say maxima with the wxmaxima frontend is as good and sometimes better. Definitely less buggy for a start.
< 1260089617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right. I'm no expert on memes
< 1260089634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the joke was really about the fact you didn't actually buy it, as far as i have discerned
< 1260089638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, bobcat? wasn't it the send cat through ebay?
< 1260089654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gift!
< 1260089669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you _say_ so
< 1260089680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw another thing I noticed is that Wolfram really likes boasting.
< 1260089688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/325/
< 1260089703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260089712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, remembered it as "cat"
< 1260089719 0 :lifthrasiir!i=daXp7mox@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260089727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/FunctionalProgramming.html says "Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language."
< 1260089733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call that "a lie"
< 1260089744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the wording is rather vague
< 1260089751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you haven't noticed that about wolfram before? it's like he's famous for it
< 1260089766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes I noticed it, but I hadn't realised the scope of it
< 1260089805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and I think he claimed mathematica was fast somewhere in the docs. and "highly optimising" or something
< 1260089859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, taking a minute or so to compute NextPrime[800!] doesn't seem too bad. Probably not a representative example considering what I heard from ais and such
< 1260089907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird (?) claimed mathematica _was_ fast as long as you only glued together things it knows well
< 1260089921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that seems quite plausible
< 1260089928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but I assume you do have a copy?
< 1260090009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260090063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck i'm not sure i've ever tried it, the institute went with maple...
< 1260090112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh btw the serious issues with workarounds: 1) Pressing AltGr inserts a space, work around by editing internal file, fix found in google groups archive. 2) Maxima was hogging CPU and waking up the laptop cpu around 14000 times per second (!), work around by replacing some library files with updated versions from wolfram: reduced to around 7000 times per second, chmod the java link stuff to be
< 1260090112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-accessible got rid of the issue completely but as a side effect some features of the internal help system no longer works
< 1260090159 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260090174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima?
< 1260090184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about it?
< 1260090189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260090191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo
< 1260090195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant mathematica
< 1260090199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1260090214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima is a lot less buggy. for a start
< 1260090221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.//
< 1260090270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's open source version of old macsyma, isn't it
< 1260090297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the vax/vms system they had when i joined university had macsyma
< 1260090389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2009/04/monumental_egos.html
< 1260090396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah but development hasn't been standing still
< 1260090412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was really pointing out the open source part
< 1260090421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which _should_ mean less bugs
< 1260090443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260090539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2009/04/monumental_egos.html <-- heh
< 1260090615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that site uses almost unreadably small text however
< 1260090633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in my browser
< 1260090641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IE 7)
< 1260090648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er 8
< 1260090783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These Android fonts (available as a package directly) have a lot nicer monospace font; I get a pretty readable 99x19 term on the 3.5" screen.
< 1260090785 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can set a minimum text size in many rowsers
< 1260090802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow
< 1260090848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it, mac fonts (legally) on a non-mac
< 1260090864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what "resize" said the size is, haven't counted the chars.
< 1260090912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of rows matches, probably columns too.
< 1260090964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99x23 in the no-title-bar "fullscreen" mode.
< 1260090968 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type a long line in vim?
< 1260091070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, s/vim/emacs/
< 1260091111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it counts correctly; used cat to avoid the editor war.
< 1260091325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now you're at war with PETA instead!
< 1260091327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P
< 1260091334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, PETA?
< 1260091346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define PETA
< 1260091351 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Peta (PeTa, Peta) is a fictional character in the manga and anime series MÄR. He is a member of the Chess Pieces, the series main antagonists ... \ [22]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peta_(MÄR) \ * In physics and mathematics, peta- (symbol: P) is a prefix in the SI (system of units) denoting 1015, or 1,000,000,000,000,000. For
< 1260091357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1260091362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google PETA
< 1260091363 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PETA's animal rights campaigns include ending fur and leather use meat and dairy consumption fishing hunting trapping factory farming circuses bull fighting ... \ www.peta.org/ - [13]Cached - [14]Similar
< 1260091381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but cat doesn't have a column count function!
< 1260091449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0123456789)S:^):^
< 1260091450 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 ...too much output!
< 1260091474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Wrote 30 chars, copy-pasted twice, then counted the remaining empty spots.
< 1260091670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for some bus-catching.
< 1260091907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you didn't answer, how did you do in mathemalympics
< 1260091971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did answer. fairly mediocre
< 1260091982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you did
< 1260091983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in below the 50% medal cutoff
< 1260091990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathemalympics?
< 1260092000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was that?
< 1260092008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :international math olympiad
< 1260092030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1988 and 1989
< 1260092034 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but international?
< 1260092066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260092095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the national competition i got 3rd and 2nd place
< 1260092102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Results 1 - 1 of 1 for mathemalympics. (0.08 seconds)
< 1260092102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1260092104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wow
< 1260092112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a special term for that
< 1260092115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one hit on google
< 1260092124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool
< 1260092128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects spelling is wrong
< 1260092140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh oklofok made it up afaik
< 1260092145 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's "googlewhack", but that's for 2 words together
< 1260092151 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i'd given a shit in the math competitions :|
< 1260092153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, ah right
< 1260092165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so what was the real name for it?
< 1260092187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :international math(ematics) olympiad
< 1260092197 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've probably told you my fun math competition stories?
< 1260092224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ical
< 1260092264 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internautical
< 1260092441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be one where we are all put in a boat at sea, and have to solve math problems to escape
< 1260092466 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260092468 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should do that!
< 1260092498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the other way around, not to get thrown out
< 1260092513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear that's the popular way with these reality shows
< 1260092652 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklofok
< 1260092660 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when can i come live with you in finland?
< 1260092705 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rather liked the maths olympiad when he did it.
< 1260092720 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got to go to the summer school.
< 1260092783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well wasn't i advertising an empty room just the other day... :D
< 1260092818 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how're the immigration laws?
< 1260092920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea really. significantly less strict than yours, i'd wager.
< 1260093019 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about work, would i be able to manage without speaking whatever it is the natives speak?
< 1260093051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everyone speaks english here
< 1260093109 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tbh i'm not sure you could live here, i mean i wouldn't mind, but my gf might (i suppose i could ask her though)
< 1260093124 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't speak english unless there was some reason to right?
< 1260093144 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean do i speak english with finns? no, usually not
< 1260093186 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natives speak finnish
< 1260093562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those pesky natives
< 1260093688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to tell google that "this word must appear in this page", because most hits I get is when selecting cached shows that "These terms only appear in links pointing to this page:"
< 1260093703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all results are fairly irrelevant
< 1260093714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been annoyed by that too
< 1260093732 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so, it doesn't work by words on the one page
< 1260093747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm did prepending + help i don't quite recall if that worked
< 1260093751 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's no reason that couldn't be done as post processing so forget that
< 1260093757 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sometimes i wish google was a search engine
< 1260093775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't just try to read my mind
< 1260093780 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give me what i want
< 1260093802 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok who said anything about mind reading
< 1260093810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, prepending + seems to reduce the issue but not solve it completely
< 1260093813 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did!
< 1260093873 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok literal interpretation of that question misses the intended meaning
< 1260093875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there is a google help page somewhere, i think i've seen links to it
< 1260093907 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok I guess I was assuming you knew a bit about how google ranked pages
< 1260093913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why google doesn't put it on their front page is beyond me
< 1260093982 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260094018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there it is
< 1260094079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken unicode in the norwegian version, not encouraging
< 1260094133 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: all i need to know is they don't look for pages containing exactly what i write in the box.
< 1260094163 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they do something close to that
< 1260094206 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok dunno, what you were saying seemed kinda smug and sarcastic to me
< 1260094216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260094218 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1260094222 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it was
< 1260094245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is big, obviously i'm allowed to bash them
< 1260094266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're funny
< 1260094282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries the english version in the hope it is more up to date
< 1260094387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects google turned evil quite some time back. Around the same time as sponsored links were introduced
< 1260094404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's google in general, sure there are still parts that aren't evil
< 1260094405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now
< 1260094582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: a good example of what i mean by mind reading is they correct my typos, 99% of the time they just give me something i didn't want, because what i wanted was less popular than something that sounds similar.
< 1260094607 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sucks
< 1260094622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or s/99%/50%/, i haven't made statistics, just become annoyed ;)
< 1260094649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's what adding + is supposed to disable, anyway
< 1260094692 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your superior arguments.
< 1260094724 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i have the time to press + everytime i search for something :d
< 1260094740 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in greasemonkey!
< 1260094765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, + doesn't disable it in my experience always
< 1260094777 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, take that!
< 1260094874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to disable synonyms, it says
< 1260094882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says nothing about links
< 1260095052 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-127.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260095182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i cannot find any way to turn off links-only hits either
< 1260095225 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamnit
< 1260095230 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nazi zombies
< 1260095304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course nazi zombies
< 1260095381 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260095390 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260095864 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: why do you search for so many things containing typos?
< 1260095933 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260095959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not typos, they are just oppressed words
< 1260095962 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260096236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix_madvise
< 1260096237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: posix_fadvise
< 1260096238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example
< 1260096242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both exist btw
< 1260096336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ,aybe i just never typo accidentally, so all the corrections are always wong in my case?
< 1260096554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION binks.
< 1260096583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260096660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh ffs. I think wolfram just tried to claim mathematica somehow is the best programming language at handling name spaces
< 1260096671 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And isn't it?
< 1260096680 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard people claim mathematica is teh best language
< 1260096705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i seem to detect some doubt about oklofok's perfection, there. repent, sinner!
< 1260096709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, from looking at the docs it seems to provide a fairly bulky way to handle name spaces
< 1260096715 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulky?
< 1260096721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd, correct
< 1260096727 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning what ??????
< 1260096764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it seems more complex and messy than it needs to be. For no gain. And that even C++
< 1260096773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++'s* namespaces seems better
< 1260096787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let it be known that I'm no C++ lover at all
< 1260096804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I positively detest C++
< 1260096821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you aren't negative about it
< 1260096827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har
< 1260096885 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sics Eliezer Yudkowsky on oerjan.
< 1260096968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION places eliezer yudkowsky in a black box, tells everyone it is an evil AI and not to let it out under any circumstances
< 1260097010 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION talks to the black box for two hours.
< 1260097018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* uorygl sics Eliezer Yudkowsky on oerjan. <-- everything before "on" there seems like some other language than English
< 1260097019 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced that I should open this box.
< 1260097021 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does.
< 1260097036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260097043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was afraid of that
< 1260097047 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "uorygl" is a Lojban spelling of an English word. "sic" is an English word.
< 1260097059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you mean as in [sic] ?
< 1260097059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1260097062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right
< 1260097072 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a verb, also spelled "sick".
< 1260097073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sic means to tell to attack
< 1260097073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i was trying to check if it was rot-N
< 1260097091 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr i didn't realize it was ihope either
< 1260097097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before now
< 1260097105 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.229.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260097112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I did that in a few seconds and found it unlikely
< 1260097121 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois would've told that tho, it seems
< 1260097126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that i realized long ago
< 1260097127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I also tried reverse
< 1260097129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you know
< 1260097155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hi there
< 1260097162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, how so? There is no ihope in it
< 1260097164 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eliezer" is a Biblical name meaning "God is help". As for "Yudkowsky", all I can tell is that it's an English proper noun meaning "Eliezer Yudkowsky".
< 1260097175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:04:53 ehird: I wonder how draw() will do for more complex expressions. <<< actually it's pretty simple to do it, basically you just do dynamic programming on expressions, and for each, store the size of the bounding box for the pic, combining them is just a matter of trivial.
< 1260097175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant how reasonable output will it give.
< 1260097175 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everyone knows warrie is ihope
< 1260097183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about Yudkowsky's name?
< 1260097189 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kind of.
< 1260097193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, sounds familiar
< 1260097205 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < AnMaster> * uorygl sics Eliezer Yudkowsky on oerjan. <-- everything before "on" there seems like some other language than English
< 1260097205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, logs! :P
< 1260097205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260097207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: great output.
< 1260097226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but you can't get smaller and smaller text w/ ascii
< 1260097240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: -owsky is a pretty common slavic name suffix afaik
< 1260097269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:14:19 oklofok, your client uses : for what someone said?
< 1260097269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:14:22 it's confusing
< 1260097269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does mine.
< 1260097270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:15:02 oklofok: because it is often used to address someone (like this, though I set my client to use , normally for tab completion)
< 1260097270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho ho, the primitive oklofok knows not the customs of IRC!
< 1260097273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, that's why you need to know the sizes of bounding boxes of subexpressions
< 1260097283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's not actually the context I meant
< 1260097293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant like in power towerzzz
< 1260097315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird I'm forced to give you an award...
< 1260097331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:20:39 ehird: Uh, why not? <<< because there is a countable amount of pairs like that, consider a base 257 number, each function can be considered a distinct number in that base => at most |N| functions
< 1260097331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contexxzt?
< 1260097339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260097345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about functions not being representable
< 1260097354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense
< 1260097363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the free variable
< 1260097364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things
< 1260097365 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arglist + expression is not enough to give you all functions
< 1260097369 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really pretty obvious
< 1260097388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expression can be arbitrarily big tho...
< 1260097395 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it must be finite
< 1260097399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right
< 1260097401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260097405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well recursion
< 1260097406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1260097417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about recursion
< 1260097430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we including impossible functions here
< 1260097431 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion doesn't change the fact that expressions are finite.
< 1260097435 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260097438 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an "impossible" function?
< 1260097444 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An uncomputable one? Definitely.
< 1260097595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a meaningless one? :P
< 1260097704 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically
< 1260097733 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more functions than you can write down
< 1260097744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually a function can be definable without being computable
< 1260097746 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you fix a countable language)
< 1260097758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ofc
< 1260097780 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe ofc, but that was an answer to your question
< 1260097785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260097789 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i see
< 1260097807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see the world
< 1260097829 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see so much more than that
< 1260097834 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like space and stuff
< 1260097901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see the nested hilbert-hotel of concepts
< 1260097924 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many computable functions are there?
< 1260097926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(every room contains a hilbert hotel just as big as the main one, containing all the ideas and subhotels of related ideas)
< 1260097929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: infinite
< 1260097936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1260097938 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say in infinitary lambda calculus)
< 1260097943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = x+1
< 1260097945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = x+1-1
< 1260097947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = x+1-1+1
< 1260097948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1260097960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could argue that's two functions
< 1260097979 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in most definitions of a "computable function", there are aleph_0 of them.
< 1260098003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computable function restricted to the physical universe would be interesting
< 1260098010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't know how dense we can pack information for a computer
< 1260098014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1260098026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't know how fast we can compute (to avoid the death of the universe)
< 1260098035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't know when the universe will die either :P
< 1260098037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / /
< 1260098039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about one that "did something useful" (of course you need to define that first)
< 1260098048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does
< 1260098070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did, since we spent so much time thinking about it that the universe already died.
< 1260098071 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl that's just some definition though, it's not necessarily the truth
< 1260098102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "truth".
< 1260098110 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just about to say that
< 1260098126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your incorrect philosophy of mathematics may lead you to believe that there is a real "truth" behind computable functions — which ONLY means their definition — but there is not.
< 1260098145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computable functions mean what consensus defines them as; they are abstract concepts with no underlying truths.
< 1260098183 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heil, mein fĂĽhrer
< 1260098212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wrong channel
< 1260098216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1260098243 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought this was the one with the nazi zombies
< 1260098261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. this channel still has some brains left.
< 1260098272 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains? where?
< 1260098274 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drools
< 1260098279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1260098285 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc rooms are kind of a sucky place to hunt.
< 1260098304 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260098308 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260098313 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: in math, definitions are the truth.
< 1260098317 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood seems to be the only one even trying to get into physical contact with his prey
< 1260098324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1260098331 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, not so! Truth in undefiniable
< 1260098336 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is*
< 1260098348 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do we know that pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter? It's defined that way.
< 1260098351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1260098366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you're a zombie, and you want to eat my brain
< 1260098375 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh baby
< 1260098384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are so busted
< 1260098387 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A statement is true in a theory if it holds for every model of that theory.
< 1260098390 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it's a theorem of Tarski
< 1260098396 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which theorem?
< 1260098402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: that's just some definitions tarski made up
< 1260098404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: not the truth!
< 1260098430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/true/provable/, iirc
< 1260098442 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true and provable are not synonymous
< 1260098448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo thinking about true is usually pointless esp. since godel means, well, it's kinda inaccessible
< 1260098456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think provable is a formal concept and true isn't, but that's just a hunch
< 1260098460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but i think the tarski theorem is about provability?
< 1260098487 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think something is a "logical consequence" or whatever if it holds for every model of the theory.
< 1260098493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh isn't that godel's completeness theorem
< 1260098503 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about godels theorem
< 1260098542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may be close nevertheless
< 1260098564 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, remind me. Is there a Turing machine that halts in some models of ZFC but not others?
< 1260098592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260098597 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Yeah, I think there is. Just add "the Turing machine halts" as an axiom.
< 1260098624 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, if it's undecidible whether or not a turing machine halts: It does not halt
< 1260098632 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true.
< 1260098633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260098637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur momz
< 1260098639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the new topic
< 1260098646 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the axiom "the Turing machine halts" is okay to suffix
< 1260098649 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, for some Turing machines that do not halt, ZFC + "that Turing machine halts" is consistent.
< 1260098679 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a theory is consistent if and only if you can't prove a falsehood from it.
< 1260098683 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1260098688 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway all this talk of turing machines just brings us back to cold hearted determinism, there's so much more
< 1260098713 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260098718 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260098761 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear not all this again
< 1260098780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: oh great, let me guess
< 1260098786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free will exists because of quantum effects
< 1260098787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i guess right
< 1260098846 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1260098865 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260098905 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260098918 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal
< 1260098929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha the channel collectively grunts in disgust
< 1260098953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, puzzlet's hop was just that annoying.
< 1260099000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1260099005 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxxD
< 1260099010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:22 mathematica sure is buggy... like altgr inserting space. Found a fix on google groups for it.
< 1260099010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert special characters, I recommend name
< 1260099012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mathematica
< 1260099028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf, pi etc work
< 1260099040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite pie
< 1260099045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260099064 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate pie?
< 1260099084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's chocolate _somewhere_, it's infinite after all
< 1260099090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: start of today's logs, people who don't use the axiom of choice upset me :P
< 1260099094 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um, no
< 1260099096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it could be uniform
< 1260099104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a repeated tile
< 1260099107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to insert special characters, I recommend name
< 1260099111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where is the fun in that
< 1260099114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot about Swedish keyboard
< 1260099115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260099120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I need altgr for [ and {
< 1260099128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dude, remap that shit
< 1260099128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sets of axioms should be used an equal amount
< 1260099141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway the fix works, *shrug*
< 1260099143 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the inconsistent ones?
< 1260099143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply the axiom of choice to an infinite set of axioms
< 1260099179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:50:49 opinions on mathematica after having spent some time playing around with it: incredibly buggy, three serious usability isssues, was possible to work around two of them. It also crashes a lot.
< 1260099180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:51:09 Syntax is somewhat strange and I still haven't found out why function parameters need to end with _
< 1260099180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1260099183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f[foo]
< 1260099190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well if they are hard to prove inconsistent, they can be interesting for a while
< 1260099193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, means?
< 1260099201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matches on the symbol foo
< 1260099201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a symbolic language
< 1260099201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what are the usability issues?
< 1260099210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah I see
< 1260099225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they were mentioned below
< 1260099226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit
< 1260099234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some page or pages later
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:51:37 oerjan, well yeah, having to rotate a 3D plot to be able to see it is rather annoying
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:51:49 it is the one serious issue that I have not found any working workaround for
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in os x without rotating
< 1260099235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:51:15 would not buy again.
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:52:17 oerjan, I decided to ignore that joke. xkcd reference right?
< 1260099235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it predates the internet i believe
< 1260099243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : works in os x without rotating
< 1260099246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux specific bug
< 1260099249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux of course is a fringe platform for mathematica
< 1260099256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, intel graphics even
< 1260099260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people are on windows or os x, or use maxima or axiom or w/e
< 1260099278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some intel chipset revisions only, only linux
< 1260099280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah a bit rare
< 1260099288 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima is horrible after getting used to mathematica's web interface
< 1260099300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, web interface? You mean W|A?
< 1260099311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely
< 1260099312 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of thhem
< 1260099313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:54:40 oh btw another thing I noticed is that Wolfram really likes boasting.
< 1260099313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably a malignant narcissist
< 1260099315 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them
< 1260099320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he definitely has a gigantic ego
< 1260099325 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica has tons of web interfaces
< 1260099329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web faces
< 1260099343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what about wxmaxima?
< 1260099352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, better than the command line I have to say
< 1260099353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that is
< 1260099355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice even
< 1260099362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, graphical frontend to maxima
< 1260099373 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i have wxmaxima
< 1260099377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the annoying one
< 1260099379 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1260099393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WxMaxima_0.7.1_screenshot.png ?
< 1260099404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism)
< 1260099405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later versions are more like mathematica note book in style
< 1260099428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, as in, you edit directly in the buffer rather than having an input line at the bottom
< 1260099429 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260099433 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine does ascii rendering for instance
< 1260099438 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably newer
< 1260099440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you miss the talk about me musing about writing y own maxima/mathematica-alike?
< 1260099448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, wow your has to be really old
< 1260099450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're using the command-line version, probably
< 1260099454 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1260099456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most of it yeah
< 1260099503 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260099509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: features in a nutshell: *good* command-line interface with good ASCII art drawing of expressions, a simple syntax that matches mathematical notation quite closely, and some assorted other stuff
< 1260099516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*writing my
< 1260099545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the ascii art drawing is optional, by default it'll display linear expressions, which is nice
< 1260099571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mathematical notation is ambiguous without context. As in what does a d mean? dx/dy is probably different from ab+dc
< 1260099583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:58:27 ehird (?) claimed mathematica _was_ fast as long as you only glued together things it knows well
< 1260099583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 claimed it and i parroted based on my experience
< 1260099608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dx/dy is dividing the variables dx and dy. ab+dc is adding ab and dc. for the former use the derivative function
< 1260099615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the latter you mean a b + d c
< 1260099619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (a b)+(d c), not sure
< 1260099623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said close, but also simple
< 1260099625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dx/dy is probably a differentiation
< 1260099627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and understandable
< 1260099631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it diverts ofc
< 1260099635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no it isn't, not in my syntax
< 1260099636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what you call it in English
< 1260099652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I said "mathematical notation"
< 1260099653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260099660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about
< 1260099661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why did you state that to me?
< 1260099666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "that matches mathematical notation quite closely"
< 1260099670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quite closely"
< 1260099673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious keyword.
< 1260099710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about ascii art drawing, do you mean unicode or plain ASCII?
< 1260099748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain ascii, unicode doesn't really help all that much for most of it
< 1260099756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the layout engine will prolly have different backends
< 1260099763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ascii, unicode, html etc
< 1260099781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TeX...)
< 1260099812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the TeX will probably be quite low level as the layout engine will mostly result in things like "row, 2, row, line, row, 3" for 2/3)
< 1260099858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to plot a function in the complex plane with mathemematica. 3D plot. x for real part, y for imaginary part (for the input value), And z for absolute value and colour for argument (for the output value)
< 1260099876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been able to figure out the colour stuff
< 1260099889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When in doubt, type Plot3D, hit F1, and navigate the docs. There is a special function fofr complex numbers, I believe.
< 1260099900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the documentation search is quite good.
< 1260099903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plot complex" might help.
< 1260099934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for
< 1260099952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Here's something that'll make you go WTF: The documentation is a set of Mathematica notebooks.
< 1260099962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation for Plot3D is the same thing as your REPL.
< 1260099978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can even shift-enter the examples from inside the docs.)
< 1260100000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did on reference.wolfram.com, since the built in docs requires java (except for basic ?Function stuff). And the java stuff is what causes the exessive wakeups and CPU hogging. Using built in docs slows down the computer so much that the mouse pointer take several seconds to react
< 1260100033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The built in docs areer far superior.
< 1260100034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest fixing the Java issue, it really is a lot more pleasant with the built-in doccs.
< 1260100034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1260100056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, and here's some fun functions — {Example,Country,Astronomical}Data
< 1260100088 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Mathematica doesn't need installation instructions.
< 1260100091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh
< 1260100128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the java issue is known, and it is a mathematica bug, not a bug in java. Working fix not yet released.
< 1260100133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You run a script and enter two paths.
< 1260100134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this I found from googling
< 1260100142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So work around it.
< 1260100149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not heh; those functions really are fun.
< 1260100157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, official workaround is chmod a-rx JLink
< 1260100161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to disable the java stuff
< 1260100162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260100198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do an unofficial workaround...?
< 1260100214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, none found so far. at least as far as I have been able to find
< 1260100225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried different jvms?
< 1260100229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did
< 1260100243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, alright then.
< 1260100257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New suggestion! Use my thing instead.
< 1260100269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is some suggestion to downgrade kernel(!) to 2.6.27 or earlier, but that would break all sort of stuff. Like being able to boot my laptop iirc.
< 1260100276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, go code it first
< 1260100378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Surely I should go design it first, being that it is a huge undertaking, involving not only the creation of a completely new, unconventional programming language that should be quite fast and yet has to be based around tree rewriting, the programming of complex and subtle algorithms as far down as basic algebra that nonetheless have to be optimised the shit out of, the programming of many, many mathematical and utility functions — that must run
< 1260100378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiently, writing the drawing layout engine, ...
< 1260100388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but tons of other things too.
< 1260100487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why based on tree rewriting?
< 1260100502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what symbolic computation is.
< 1260100547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically the only way to easily handle expressions involving numbers like pi and insanely big 'uns and still be able to manipulate and compare them efficiently and only evaluate them to arbitrary precision at the last step.
< 1260100634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I think this plot just reinvented flower power or something
< 1260100643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, want to see?
< 1260100665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such patterns are not uncommon, but sure.
< 1260100667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot 'er up.
< 1260100671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR
< 1260100675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save a notebook and send it to me!
< 1260100677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the expression is http://sprunge.us/QMhM
< 1260100692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, those lines at the right side select various parts of the expression
< 1260100709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That Function would be more idiomatically written with lambda syntax
< 1260100717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1260100719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260100723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less copy and paste I guess
< 1260100728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#+2)& → \x→x+2
< 1260100728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#+#2)& → \x,y→x+y
< 1260100729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or you mean the colour one?
< 1260100732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is #1, #n is argument n
< 1260100739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you postfix the expression with *
< 1260100740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1260100741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with &
< 1260100743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's weird
< 1260100744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1260100759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just based it on the examples at http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/ColorFunction.html
< 1260100776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it isn't more idiomatic, but it is shorter, and mathematica is tedious to write :P
< 1260100786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I didn't quite grook that syntax you just gave above
< 1260100795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed it is tedious to write indeed
< 1260100804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:57] ehird: btw, those lines at the right side select various parts of the expression
< 1260100804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other tips: In and and Out actually are real arrays, you can access them in expressions; % means Out[last line], Mod+L recalls the last line, you can modify lines in place and re-evaluate them to replace them
< 1260100810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what do you think of the result of that plot?
< 1260100824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION evaluates that
< 1260100835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nifty eh?
< 1260100849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who spiked my drink?
< 1260100858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD
< 1260100860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1260100863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, to explain:
< 1260100904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By == I just mean is equivalent; they aren't technically equal, but they behave identically
< 1260100904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# + 2) & == Function[x, x + 2]
< 1260100904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# + 2 * #2) & == Function[{x, y}, x + 2 * y]
< 1260100904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits
< 1260100904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1260100916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...) & is a lambda, # is the first argument, #1 is too, #n is argument n
< 1260100931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err okay
< 1260100977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does this call Hue, Sin and Arg?
< 1260100978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: To explain: Mathematica has postfix operators. Yes, you read that right. That's how 3! works.
< 1260100983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 3 !.
< 1260100991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Umm... the body of a lambda is just an expression.
< 1260100994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that makes perfect sense
< 1260100996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth is this confusing to you?
< 1260101012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ColorFunction would be written as:
< 1260101029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably define f to be the function I'm plotting or something
< 1260101032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hue[Arg[2 (# + I*#2)^3 - ...]) &
< 1260101041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF are you confused about?
< 1260101041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like f[re_, im_] := ...
< 1260101043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just lambda syntax.
< 1260101050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ??????
< 1260101053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well okay
< 1260101054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1260101060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you use expressions inline with Plot3D.
< 1260101067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1260101075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't define a function unless you need to, and if you must use PlotFunction.
< 1260101077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code duplication, can't be having with that
< 1260101080 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260101087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you use it more than once? So you do.
< 1260101092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think there is a way to simplify this.
< 1260101097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that there is no duplication.
< 1260101100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, use PlotFunction and co.
< 1260101103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1260101111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No search results for PlotFunction
< 1260101111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1260101114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260101117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme try and find it
< 1260101125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, nope
< 1260101126 0 :boily!n=boily@poste30-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260101127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just call the function then
< 1260101179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who knows.
< 1260101236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well defining a function then using it in Plot3D seems to work
< 1260101243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe PlotFunction was for older versions?
< 1260101314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it let you actually do
< 1260101321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlotFunction[f, {10, 50}]
< 1260101321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1260101323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be imagining it
< 1260101325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably am.
< 1260101365 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260101366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there is a parametric 3D plot
< 1260101387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right click → Copy As → LaTeX.
< 1260101389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1260101393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to address that to you.
< 1260101395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just noting a fun thing.
< 1260101407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I noticed that before
< 1260101429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\frac{1}{2}
< 1260101431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that works.
< 1260101445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet mathematica claims to have uniquely superior state of the art math type setting
< 1260101453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain I saw that somewhere
< 1260101460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Mathematica's TraditionalForm output is very nice.
< 1260101471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(try TraditionalForm[Hold[some expression]])
< 1260101500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can even interpret a subset of TraditionalForm's output.
< 1260101503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of Tra
< 1260101505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid spces
< 1260101506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/RegionPlot3D.html <-- nice
< 1260101508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spaces
< 1260101550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stupid letters
< 1260101570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, RegionPlot3D[x y z < 1, {x, -5, 5}, {y, -5, 5}, {z, -5, 5},
< 1260101570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PlotStyle -> Directive[Yellow, Opacity[0.5]], Mesh -> None] is pretty.
< 1260101573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that page
< 1260101585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that's \text{RegionPlot3D}[x y z<1,\{x,-5,5\},\{y,-5,5\},\{z,-5,5\},\text{PlotStyle}\to \text{Directive}[\text{Yellow},\text{Opacity}[0.5]],\text{Mesh}\to \text{None}] in LaTeX.
< 1260101586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260101613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't quite think that is true
< 1260101654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is.
< 1260101655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess it depends, I don't think the Plot commands does have any good translations
< 1260101664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's copying the formula itself.
< 1260101674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it should generate pstricks commands XD
< 1260101676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not TeX that evaluates the formula.
< 1260101692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's just like how it'll give you 2+2 instead of \horriblemacromagic{add}{2}{2}.
< 1260101697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it should show as 2+2, not 4.
< 1260101704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1260101710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXForm::unspt: TeXForm of Graphics3DBox[<<1>>,<<7>>,ViewVertical->{-0.210506,0.583037,0.784701}] is not supported. >>
< 1260101718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. Gimme a LaTeX version of the plot itself! :P
< 1260101758 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260101803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, wolfram is a narcissist but that's mostly the documentation's fault, usually the actual meat is good, if slow and buggy
< 1260101807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is non-trivial. Did you want it as an asymptote graph? Or pstricks? Or something else?
< 1260101818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram mostly sits around, mathematica isn't really his these days
< 1260101834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I want it rotatable in the output pdf, clearly.
< 1260101834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he still write the docs?
< 1260101844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adobe recently added Flash embedding to pdfs...
< 1260101849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1260101850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a C→ActionScript converter...
< 1260101853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260101854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Mathematica is mostly C...
< 1260101857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see where I'm going? XD
< 1260101860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my
< 1260101865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm afraid so
< 1260101870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what? C→ActionScript?
< 1260101873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously?
< 1260101880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's called Alchemy
< 1260101886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Flash port of Doom
< 1260101891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With it
< 1260101894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/470460
< 1260101916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recompiled from the original sources by Mike, using Alchemy! Thanks Adobe!"
< 1260101923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that much of a port, then.
< 1260101934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try changing the range to -Pi/Pi in the "Who spiked my drink" plot
< 1260101938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something strange happens
< 1260101945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact, a strange message
< 1260101947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repaste the expression?
< 1260101979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power:indet:Indeterminate expression (0.+0.ii)^(0+0.ii) encountered
< 1260101982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact
< 1260101997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those i are stylised ones
< 1260102000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste the expression and I'll diagnose.
< 1260102004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1260102047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://sprunge.us/FUaa
< 1260102059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:03:34 maxima is a lot less buggy. for a start
< 1260102059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and a lot less featureful :) maxima is alright, but it doesn't cover everything mathematica does
< 1260102071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course
< 1260102100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw how do you zoom in on a part of a plot in mathematica?
< 1260102100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when you see an error click the >> next to it
< 1260102104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that opens in the built-in docs though, ha.
< 1260102111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are no >> there?
< 1260102124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot.
< 1260102131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1260102147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec
< 1260102163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's shortcuts; shift-drag moves the image, alt-drag i think zooms
< 1260102181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here we go
< 1260102181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drag \[LongDash] interactively rotate a 3D graphic
< 1260102184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift+Drag \[LongDash] zoom a 3D graphic
< 1260102188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+Drag \[LongDash] pan a 3D graphic
< 1260102195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematica provides real-time view control for all 3D graphics, wherever they may appear in a document. Mathematica's advanced human interface device system also automatically supports joystick and gamepad 3D graphics control, with special features available on the Wolfram Research 2+12 degree-of-freedom gamepad."
< 1260102198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, they have a gamepad.
< 1260102210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw for me shift-drag isn't zoom i guess ymmv
< 1260102226 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260102227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you zoom in you can see a white patch where the graph was cut
< 1260102233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the effects of the Poewr::indet error
< 1260102243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Power
< 1260102246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's
< 1260102250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This arithmetic corresponds to multiplying zero and infinity:"
< 1260102252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260102254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power means it happened when doing a power
< 1260102259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean the "slit" in the middle?
< 1260102264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expression is, removing the immaginary part, 0^0
< 1260102266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was there in the smaller version too
< 1260102267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work it out.
< 1260102272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes.
< 1260102276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can see it more clearly zoomed in.
< 1260102280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the warning wasn't there then
< 1260102294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr your plotting function does 0^0 at one point
< 1260102307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix it
< 1260102326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260102329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically
< 1260102335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::indet means that the expression is indeterminate
< 1260102338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's intended, it isn't well defined over the whole range
< 1260102344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 1/0
< 1260102345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function doesn't have to be
< 1260102348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like
< 1260102354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But you told Plot3D to plot over that range.
< 1260102362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screenshot you asked for http://omploader.org/vMnhpbg
< 1260102370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So add a safe guard.
< 1260102380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh. I guess Qt Mathematica is just neglected :P
< 1260102388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, argh! Turn the anntialiasing up to full in the settings!
< 1260102395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes and? If there are asymptotes I may still want to plot over that range
< 1260102401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appearance → Graphics → Highest Quality
< 1260102411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you can'tt compute the value for that point, you can't plot that point. Simple as.
< 1260102443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that setting makes no difference
< 1260102448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame shitty intel graphics
< 1260102455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to reevaluate an expression
< 1260102457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even restart mathematica
< 1260102524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, none of those changed it
< 1260102541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you to go with the ati graphics
< 1260102546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you listen ohhh no :)
< 1260102559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ati graphics were reported to have power usage issues too
< 1260102570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not at low load.
< 1260102578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares anyway, you get like 2 hours of battery anyway
< 1260102581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's near-useless
< 1260102581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at suspend to ram
< 1260102583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even
< 1260102597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from what I heard, the open source drivers are still buggy for ati
< 1260102600 0 :cal153!n=cal@12.130.118.25 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260102638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Shift+Drag \[LongDash] zoom a 3D graphic
< 1260102638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ctrl+Drag \[LongDash] pan a 3D graphic
< 1260102640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason
< 1260102641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, they are, but ati have released specifications freely
< 1260102643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are reversed for me
< 1260102655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using their closed-source drivers temporarily isn't some huge moral issue :P
< 1260102657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ditto
< 1260102667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation bug?
< 1260102679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, their closed source drivers are worse
< 1260102681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever used them?
< 1260102689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a supported card, fglrx is nice.
< 1260102689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did during one point
< 1260102691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some years ago
< 1260102698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A supported, recent card, that is.
< 1260102700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fglrx crashed and froze all the time
< 1260102705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Some years ago, yes.
< 1260102707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to use reset button a lot
< 1260102716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, they're competitive with nvidia's proprietary drivers, which are nice.
< 1260102737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe this... mathematica only provides one level of undo
< 1260102858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what sense?
< 1260102920 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260103106 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-69-52.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260103202 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260103223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most programs provide more
< 1260103225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1260103229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most non-trivial ones
< 1260103233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, in the text entry field.
< 1260103238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just backspace, usually.
< 1260103258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed my character's back-story, I think?? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/raw_transcripts/Vyb_back_story.txt
< 1260103318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really want to see the true power of Icoruma, look at spells.irm
< 1260103364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would want to undo last operation, say, rotating a graph
< 1260103370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zooming something
< 1260103378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can reset that by right-clicking and choosing an option, I think.
< 1260103379 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should read the log
< 1260103381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even evaluating an expression
< 1260103549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: highlight the result line and delete it.
< 1260103576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if I was re-evaluating over an old result?
< 1260103581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't do that then" right
< 1260103600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What about it?
< 1260103605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing that is perfectly kosher.
< 1260103729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " AnMaster: highlight the result line and delete it."
< 1260103732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work then
< 1260103747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1260103754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, return the evaluatation?
< 1260103756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evaluation
< 1260103764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260103777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, don't overwrite if you don't want to overwrite.
< 1260103808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, realised that too late? well sure, you can be extra careful and such, still a bit irritating
< 1260103831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use Mod+L to try out new ideas.
< 1260103833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ctrl, maybe.)
< 1260103835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or alt.)
< 1260103836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cmd on OS X.)
< 1260103888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl
< 1260103928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, can't test now, laptop turned off and in backpack for tomorrow, cya going to sleep soon (will probably return for a short bit in 0.5-1 hour or so)
< 1260103961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what kind of sleep is that
< 1260104021 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerman?
< 1260104247 0 :OxE6!n=mu@adsl-248-90-214.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260104298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no AnMaster is just bad at self-control
< 1260104356 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi 230
< 1260104378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: HEY i object to offering that room to bsmntbombdood, i'm reserving that shit
< 1260104380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260104400 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to use quote-marks when quoting people
< 1260104412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't quote anyone
< 1260104417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1260104421 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1260104422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't live in finland anyway it has mandatory military service
< 1260104442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""ACTION likes to use quote-marks when quoting people"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
< 1260104477 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get ACTION from?
< 1260104488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screen.
< 1260104491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/me"
< 1260104505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:13:07 * AnMaster suspects google turned evil quite some time back. Around the same time as sponsored links were introduced
< 1260104505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, advertising! It's so unusual for a capitalist company to be capitalist.
< 1260104521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicking on a sponsored link shortens your lifespan by 5 years, you know. EVIL
< 1260104526 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that /me is transmitted using "ACTION" and some magic char, but I don't know what kind of IRC client would actually show you that string "ACTION"
< 1260104542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHIRC does
< 1260104555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it displays it in red (normal messages are in blue)
< 1260104575 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1260104577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHIRC being zzo38's own client.
< 1260104583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in PHP, for the command-line, I believe.
< 1260104586 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is
< 1260104594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is written to be used with PuTTY
< 1260104595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just, uh, leave it at that, yeah.
< 1260104697 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in what way is it specially adapted for PuTTY?
< 1260104705 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many users do yuo have? ;-)
< 1260104711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: have you ever *used* cmd.exe?
< 1260104718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone else other than me have used it
< 1260104728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this is the guy who has said he'll switch to linux when he needs to buy a new computer, but he'll make it entirely from scratch
< 1260104735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll bet uh
< 1260104736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 user
< 1260104752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely from scratch, but more from scratch than most distributions
< 1260104754 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does cmd.exe have to do with this?
< 1260104761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putty vs cmd.exe
< 1260104768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a terminal
< 1260104770 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe is the Windows command-line
< 1260104773 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260104791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows console window doesn't support the ANSI/VT/XTERM terminal codes
< 1260104813 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PuTTY supplies its own terminal emulator
< 1260104835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because PuTTY's terminal emulator supports the codes I used.
< 1260104880 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PuTTY also supports the codes that irssi etc use
< 1260104889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but zzo38 didn't write irssi.
< 1260104909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FreeGeek has terminals for Linux, and I have some troubles to run it on there using Xterm or the other ones
< 1260104914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use irssi
< 1260104925 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! I see what zzo38 means now I think...
< 1260104937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote my own because I didn't like some things in other IRC client so I decided to write my own to make it the way I wanted it to be
< 1260104968 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is on windows, and he wrote an IRC client for use within PuTTY as opposed to for fur use within the windows CLI?
< 1260104983 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a screen-shot if you want to see: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/IRC-strange-characters.png
< 1260104996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes.
< 1260104998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and there's another screen-shot: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/PHIRC/screenshot0.png
< 1260104998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In PHP.
< 1260105072 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that PHP did CLI stuff
< 1260105088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It does ... painfully...
< 1260105100 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the display format seems to be quite close to the IRC protocol
< 1260105102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It is, of course, a hideous abuse.
< 1260105111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite close — you mean, identical.
< 1260105133 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it get confusing if you are on 20 channels?
< 1260105162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP does do CLI stuff. And some programs, such as FurryScript, are a CLI program and then other PHP program can include it in a HTML form
< 1260105170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is only in here
< 1260105194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yes it can get confusing on 20 channels if you use that many channels on the same server at once!!
< 1260105202 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 must be the re-incarnation of Chuck Moore or something
< 1260105208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't ever use that many channels at once, not even on separate servers
< 1260105215 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260105248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Hey, Chuck Moore used a *decent* language. :)
< 1260105256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can an alive person really be reincarnated?
< 1260105263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1260105271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Moore, O, I did write Forth interpreters, and some programs in some Forth systems too.
< 1260105285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a Forth interpreter in MegaZeux, and I wrote a program for writing GameBoy programs in Gforth
< 1260105344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be fun to work for Chuck Moore's company. I wonder if his odd manner of speech is the same in person.
< 1260105457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: what kind of sleep is that <-- taking a shower before
< 1260105462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was what I did
< 1260105514 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was thinking more about the willingness to put lots of effort into replacing huge existing bits of software with stuff you wrote yourself
< 1260105539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think syntax-highlighting IRC really takes *that* much code...
< 1260105554 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, exactly
< 1260105566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would it syntax highlight on?
< 1260105578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded code examples?
< 1260105579 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his software does what he needs with way less code than ordinary irc clients
< 1260105580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.12.06
< 1260105582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or IRC itself
< 1260105591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh logs
< 1260105592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260105595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, but i contend that the simple code involved isn't that much effort
< 1260105598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that should be simple
< 1260105602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a regex even
< 1260105613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :match date data
< 1260105617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260105619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1260105620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i meantt
< 1260105626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the F. logs
< 1260105630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what we're talking about
< 1260105631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: his fork of Conkeror with ... green tabs, and rewritten gopher support with a scripting language... that's probably a better example
< 1260105635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few more lines to handle join/part/quit and /me
< 1260105658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're rambling about an irrelevant thing.
< 1260105665 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, not that much effort
< 1260105691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(his fork's at http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/; i'll leave that root link there because it's fun trying to figure out where the page is)
< 1260105692 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where do you find the time to write all that sort of stuff?
< 1260105708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I don't know
< 1260105738 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it not actually take that much time
< 1260105789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try to figure out
< 1260105829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you mean highlighting the protocol itself yes
< 1260106054 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260106075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tell that guy it's 0x
< 1260106123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, can an alive person really be reincarnated? <-- i've read claims to that effect. after all in some spiritual traditions, time is an illusion as is the individual
< 1260106136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, as
< 1260106162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say "yes, but that's just unsubstantiated bullshit". then i realised we were talking about reincarnation
< 1260106164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, invalid in nicks though
< 1260106171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're invalid in nicks.
< 1260106177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260106184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is your mom
< 1260106346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int width_times_height_minus_one = width * (height - 1);
< 1260106347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—actual C code
< 1260106363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what program?
< 1260106380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really terribly-written one, clearly.
< 1260106391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1703757
< 1260106423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrrrgh.
< 1260106462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... not only is the name hideously verbose, not descriptive and much longer than the actual expression, it's an expression that has near NO cost.
< 1260106481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is the program? What program is this function part of?
< 1260106486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "int * map", way to have the disadvantages of "int* map" while still looking weird.
< 1260106496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the entire "program"
< 1260106510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/abh84/the_1717_challenge/c0grbec
< 1260106510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes link for what it's for
< 1260106517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/abh84/the_1717_challenge/c0grssk counterpoint — a really concise J version
< 1260106523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer like "int*map" instead of "int * map"
< 1260106554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes program in C, I added codes into MegaZeux in C
< 1260106596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh that is just as bad
< 1260106597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int *map
< 1260106601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I would write
< 1260106619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int*map is alright since the * is almost like a space, but I would write int *map too.
< 1260106622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so you write int*map,*foo;
< 1260106628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks plain weird
< 1260106631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I omit spaces almost always.
< 1260106640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int *map, *foo;
< 1260106641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1260106644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. i'd write x=(y*z)/f; instead of x = (y * z) / f;
< 1260106648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/
< 1260106656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I never declare multiple pointers on the same line, and I also never declare pointers and non-pointers on the same line
< 1260106660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if(x) instead of if (x)
< 1260106665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if(x){ instead of if (x) {
< 1260106668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd generally write int *map, as well. For such is what the good Lords of C, K&R intended.
< 1260106673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write like: if(x) {
< 1260106675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i do add whitespace in places that others don't
< 1260106677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance
< 1260106682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int
< 1260106682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(...)
< 1260106682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1260106687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can grep for ^foo(
< 1260106700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: k&r is obsolete, plan 9 c is the amended k&r style! :-P
< 1260106709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is, uh, identical to what I just said)
< 1260106721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Plan 9 C is also acceptable. It offends not.
< 1260106766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferring K&R over Plan 9 C is like, um, only reading the KJV! As opposed to some other bible that is. Not as opposed to no bible. Also only the Christian bible.
< 1260106766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it confusing to see "int *map=something;" so that's why I omit the space.
< 1260106770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was tenuous.
< 1260106779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I find that quite readable.
< 1260106787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The value assigned is bound tightly to the variable.
< 1260106798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a=3, b=4, c=5; is nice and readable.
< 1260106810 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is confusing because it is the value of the variable called "map" not the value of the variable called "*map" at first
< 1260106813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a = 3, b = 4, c = 5; makes it harder to distinguish each definition, so I omit the spaces.
< 1260106814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about int a,b,c;\na=b=c=3;
< 1260106816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1260106821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's true.
< 1260106834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't int a=b=c=3; work?
< 1260106837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no
< 1260106838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should :P
< 1260106843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how could it?
< 1260106845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd write it as either
< 1260106856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a,b,c;
< 1260106857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=b=c=3;
< 1260106857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1260106857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a, b, c;
< 1260106857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=b=c=3;
< 1260106858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how i felt.
< 1260106861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the names were longer, probably the latter.
< 1260106861 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last time I wrote C code it was like that first prototype J interpreter. Incredibly dense and macroy, all functions fitting on 1 line.
< 1260106870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're literally a, b and c I would write it without the spaces.
< 1260106877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't make functions fit on one line :P
< 1260106882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just try to make my code reasonably readable when it comes to spacing
< 1260106891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the int *foo thing
< 1260106898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've read your code and find it to have too many spaces to read nicely.
< 1260106909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaces are meant to separate; when you put them around everything, it's like a linear blob of mud.
< 1260106909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, different taste *shrug*
< 1260106915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, each operator looks sparkly and pretty.
< 1260106922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's disconnected, floating away from the relevant operandss.
< 1260106924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*operands
< 1260106928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, newly washed and hand polished!
< 1260106929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1260106938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to do i++; not i ++
< 1260106940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260106946 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ++ ;
< 1260106951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260106953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, you're inconsistent too? Whoopy
< 1260106959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 i +!
< 1260106961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even K&R C omitted quite a lot of spaces, btw.
< 1260106964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well sure, if it is for readability
< 1260106974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd never catch "a = (b * c) / f;" being written by them.
< 1260106979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why should I care about K&R? I mostly write the code to be readable by myself
< 1260106979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "a = (b*c)/f;" at most.
< 1260106994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a lot of people who write in such a hideous over-spaced style claim to write in K&R style.
< 1260106999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm more offended by the redundant brackets than the whitespace :-P
< 1260107001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about a = ( b * c ) / f ;
< 1260107007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeargh)
< 1260107030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In my opinion, b*c/f is easily parsed as both b*(c/f) and (b*c)/f.
< 1260107046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your opinion is poor
< 1260107048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, */+- have easy to remember well defined ordering
< 1260107058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other operators may be harder to remember
< 1260107059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't want to remember it, it's arbitray.
< 1260107061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arbitrary.
< 1260107070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is standard math practise
< 1260107079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't mathematics.
< 1260107080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practice*
< 1260107097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, those are math expressions. And?
< 1260107103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they are not.
< 1260107112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1260107118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, a+b > a can be true.
< 1260107119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1260107121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+b < a
< 1260107121 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260107124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a+b < b
< 1260107129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all sorts of things
< 1260107157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rule to use with parentheses, IMO, is to use them when the order of operations could reasonably be misunderstood.
< 1260107175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that (a*b)/f is one of those cases.
< 1260107179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As would I.
< 1260107188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I would disagree
< 1260107195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with < I would agree however
< 1260107206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1260107217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find the (a*b)/f irritating
< 1260107221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with either
< 1260107223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I chose f for that variable.
< 1260107226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably write both
< 1260107236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also like to note that it only makes a difference with integer arithmetic as done in most programming languages, and not on the reals...
< 1260107239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoo.
< 1260107252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm?
< 1260107262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a disagreement about whether it was ambiguous between two people who don't think the other is *completely* insane, then it's ambiguous.
< 1260107266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a*(b/f) = (a*b)/f in "real math".
< 1260107269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes a difference with floating-point arithmetic as well
< 1260107279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also true.
< 1260107284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A float is definitely not a real.
< 1260107293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true
< 1260107293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes indeed
< 1260107305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just couldn't parse the English there
< 1260107328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired
< 1260107821 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260108107 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260108401 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260108406 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260108820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites his sconvert utility in haskell
< 1260108840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell for vertical scones
< 1260108855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Storage Convert. :P
< 1260108941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1260108960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=231
< 1260109114 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260109694 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260109908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260110396 0 :nate!n=nate@unaffiliated/nate JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260110433 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260110446 0 :nate!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I get assistance here on brainfuck code?
< 1260110865 0 :nate!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260112132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you're patient.
< 1260112408 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260112671 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, better Nate than Lever!
< 1260112678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1260112678 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260112689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent half an hour reading that joke and at the end I was "..." for about as long
< 1260112706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get me wrong, it was an enjoyable story
< 1260112710 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is traditional to put a small novel-worth of shaggy dog story before that pun
< 1260112716 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you too
< 1260112732 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works in American
< 1260112747 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lever" and "never" don't rhyme in English
< 1260112762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, my brain adjusted for it
< 1260112770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1260112776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I read "better Nate than" my brain went into RHYME AT ALL COSTS mode
< 1260112821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fun to have a novel of Finnegans Wake length that all builds up to one terrible pun
< 1260112828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls the guy that didn't realise you could be in more than one IRC channel at once
< 1260112835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: aye
< 1260112861 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to be written "properly", otherwise people wouldn't stick at it long enough
< 1260112872 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, so it actually worked without the pun
< 1260112891 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, then the editor would cut the pun at the end as ruining the whole tone of the book
< 1260112919 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the whole thing was suficiently surreal, when you might get away with just hinting at it
< 1260112932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :publish it on the internet, have a hardcopy on lulu, and solicit donations. you'll get very little money and little exposure, but it's free :P
< 1260112935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no editors
< 1260112957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: maybe the book could turn into a book about writing the book gradually
< 1260112971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the ending pun could be mentioned as a pun you were *going* to add
< 1260112978 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260112994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all the characters laugh, for which there is no explanation
< 1260113113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just reminding me that i have a semi-decent idea for an AI short story and no writing talent, topic change time!
< 1260113158 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AI"?
< 1260113167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :artificial intelligence
< 1260113180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AI short story" is confusing, agreed
< 1260113199 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define
< 1260113256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a short story concerning an artificial intelligence (or indeed many); subgenre of scifi
< 1260113264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond that, I'm sure you own a dictionary :-P
< 1260113281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if i wanted to be specific it'd technically about the singularity
< 1260113293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but beyond that there starts to be a fine line between a specific genre and the actual story :P
< 1260113365 0 :OxE6!n=mu@adsl-248-90-214.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260113381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1260113388 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OxE6: s/O/0/
< 1260113391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you think i meant?
< 1260113393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i said that earlier
< 1260113395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not valid on irc
< 1260113594 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok
< 1260113805 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is the best I can do on irc unfortunately :(
< 1260114967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OxE6: {0xE6}
< 1260114972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluates to 0x56 in all good languages!
< 1260114975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1260114978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xE6
< 1260115026 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260115028 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1260115031 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1260115131 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260115205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More people should use SI prefixes on currency!
< 1260115214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 million dollars? Pah! 1 M$, methinks!
< 1260115248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 billion? 1 G$!
< 1260115255 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260115273 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people already say megabucks
< 1260115273 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260115273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you have 10^21 bucks, well that'd be 1 Z$.
< 1260115287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Yes, but they never say M$!
< 1260115295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always 1M $.
< 1260115297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor do they progress past M!
< 1260115302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gigadollar sounds so cool.
< 1260115315 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.21 JIGGAWATTS!
< 1260115317 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used megametres a lot back in school
< 1260115365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people would say 1,000 km :P
< 1260115375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Ym = really fucking long
< 1260115382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z is the best prefix though.
< 1260115384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a bloody Z.
< 1260115469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I think furlong/firkin/fortnight is the best system of measurements.
< 1260115472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps attoparsecs, too.
< 1260115533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 km/h is 100 kilofurlongs per fortnight (100 kfl/fn). The more you know.
< 1260115712 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260115713 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about beard seconds? :D
< 1260115728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECONDS ARE A HERETICAL UNIT OF MEASUREMENT!
< 1260115741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My only qualm with the furlong/firkin/fortnight system is that it uses SI prefixes.
< 1260115754 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurement#Beard-second
< 1260115766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1260115775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beardseconds are necessarily related to seconds.
< 1260115784 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260115798 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what measurements of time are "good" then?
< 1260115845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. It'd be fun to devise an entirely new system of measurements.
< 1260115851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a smoot might be a good base.
< 1260115892 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going back to my dorm"
< 1260115900 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im surprised an article this awesome has survived the rampaging wikicops and deletionists
< 1260115920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Philosophers talking about Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarianism sometimes use the conceptual unit of the Hedon to describe the amount of pleasure, equivalent to the amount of pleasure a person receives from gaining one util of utility."
< 1260115930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's utilon, bitches!
< 1260115932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yudkowsky says so.
< 1260115966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hedon vs util(on) reminds me of watt vs joule
< 1260116073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's formalised Utilitarianism (given black boxes to deal with fiddly ill-defined human matters)
< 1260116336 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260116649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, cinnamon peppermint soda.
< 1260116748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: send me a bottle.
< 1260116752 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260116757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send yourself a bottle!
< 1260116772 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260116776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a word! conceviances, n. that which is conceived. misconceviances, n. that which is misconceived.
< 1260116788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are excellent words to describe: ideas; children.
< 1260116789 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in a bunch of cases sure
< 1260116796 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually in terms of monetary compensation though
< 1260116806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't see utilitarianism as being economic
< 1260116817 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like did you never see one of those industrial-injury payout tables
< 1260116824 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lost digit gets you such-and-such
< 1260116827 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lost limb is worth this
< 1260116841 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lost eye is worth another amount
< 1260116848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more about physical pain than the more lofty hedonism of utilitarianism, imo
< 1260116855 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260116860 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about dismemberment, not pain
< 1260116872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know what i mean
< 1260116875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about physical injuries
< 1260116884 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example, the loss of a right hand is more than the loss of a left hand (mutatis mutandis)
< 1260116890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utilitarianism is mostly about intellectual achievement
< 1260116896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: that's leftist! :P
< 1260116902 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence mutatis mutandis
< 1260116909 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't just break out in latin for no reason >:|
< 1260116990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where as I do! Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
< 1260117057 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260117183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260117340 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260119293 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :poiuy_qwert
< 1260119564 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260123242 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-3.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260123888 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260125574 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260125729 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260126214 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260128988 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260129356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260130639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable
< 1260133360 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260133957 0 :mu!n=mu@wl01-copier-103a.dc.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260133965 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260135221 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260135222 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-15.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260135230 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260136695 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260136758 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260139042 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260139826 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260141079 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260141085 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260141239 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260141788 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260141929 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260141934 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260142411 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260142682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, well, better Nate than Lever! <-- I did get the joke in the first context (of that nick) but what on earth was the stuff about the dog story about?
< 1260142820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps attoparsecs, too. <-- that works out to.. uh... 3 cm or such?
< 1260142858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to google, 3.09
< 1260142893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dunno. It'd be fun to devise an entirely new system of measurements. <-- centifortnight?
< 1260143036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, units(1) claim 3.0856776
< 1260143051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was rounding
< 1260143062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Planck units > all
< 1260143069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually gussed it would work out to "less than a meter, more than a millimeter" before checking)
< 1260143342 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260143572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode."
< 1260144642 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260145876 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260146665 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260147661 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260147661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260147662 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260147669 0 :Ilari!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260150440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260151887 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260162232 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260162797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there
< 1260162800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good at sql?
< 1260162810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting some strange behaviour here that I'm unable to explain
< 1260162828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not particularly good at SQL
< 1260162858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah so know any issues with ((a full join b on ...) left join c on ...) ?
< 1260162871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the outer one is behaving as a full join for unknown reason
< 1260162874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that that looks like a pain to optimise?
< 1260162907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this isn't meant to run fast, it is a off by one thing to verify stuff before fixing normalising in this exercise
< 1260162918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the nested join query is not in the exercise itself
< 1260162941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just try to work out if this is reasonable
< 1260163223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay it seems to be a bug. But I have a much more recent version than when it should have been fixed
< 1260163535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs. sqlite doesn't support right/full outer joins
< 1260163538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can't check with that
< 1260163950 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260164253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think syntax errors should be deterministic?
< 1260164263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the language
< 1260164267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SQL
< 1260164275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's close enough to INTERCAL, so why bother
< 1260164291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm getting random syntax errors once in a while, re-executing the query seems to work
< 1260164301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an interp bug
< 1260164310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, postgresql-8.4
< 1260164480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could be in the frontend though
< 1260164485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using the command line tool
< 1260164489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is pretty rare
< 1260164500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, clog is back
< 1260164509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that full/left bug seems to actually have been correct. It was incorrect in the other dbms instead
< 1260164644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the Google "did you mean" thing keeps backfiring on me because I mostly use it for esolang searches
< 1260164651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where what it thinks is a misspelling is actually what I meant
< 1260164656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real problem, though, it's just an extra click
< 1260164697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there seems to be a euro sign in clog's mojibake logs; strange choice of encoding to generate the mojibake in...
< 1260165045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1260165151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:04:20 nested: A[X][Y] = A[(X*(sizeof A / sizeof A[0]))+Y]
< 1260165153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:04:21 | {A[X]:nested}[Y] = A[(X*(sizeof A / sizeof A[0]))+Y]
< 1260165157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is the mojibake?
< 1260165159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to think of a way to get that to parse as valid Perl
< 1260165162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a couple of days ago
< 1260165177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it shows for me and not you, mojibake tends to do that sort of thing
< 1260165188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link to log in question?
< 1260165191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what line
< 1260165196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not now, I'm busy
< 1260165197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to grep for i mean
< 1260165203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try grepping for €
< 1260165207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260165220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or failing that, "Bing as Search Engine Provider"
< 1260165234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the 09.12.05 logs
< 1260165296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bing" sounds so silly
< 1260165333 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-12.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260165407 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260165644 0 :ais523_!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-tlxaduvqxrhvkybv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260166902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260167117 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260167650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, make help: assuming I have a variable like: DIAGRAMS = foo bar quux, then I want a list like foo.dot bar.dot and quux.dot, oh and another one like foo.svg bar.svg quux.svg
< 1260167656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do that based on the first variable
< 1260167660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want same for png and such
< 1260167672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just two variables maintained separately would be irritating
< 1260167703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing all: $(DIAGRAMS).svg $(DIAGRAMS).png just doesn't work
< 1260167845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can depend on gnu make here
< 1260167853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm having problems navigating the info pages
< 1260167926 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure, and am busy trying to teach Java
< 1260167930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260167935 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking I'd do it by hand, though
< 1260167948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to code a lot more explicitly in makefiles than most people
< 1260167949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I have seen a simple solution for it
< 1260167951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere
< 1260167958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, that feels so wrong
< 1260168013 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me, I'm used to langs like C
< 1260168032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, C → macros
< 1260168044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: $(addsuffix .svg, $(DIAGRAMS)) ?
< 1260168068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I'm pretty sure the thing I saw was much shorter. Maybe it was for switching from one suffix to another
< 1260168079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway as long as it works
< 1260168101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just defining all as .dot and them substituting the suffix somehow would also work)
< 1260168165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(DIAGRAMS:.dot=.svg)
< 1260168175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that seems like it
< 1260168186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird I can't find that in any of the info pages of gnu make
< 1260168200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(var:x=y) is equivalent to $(patsubst x,y,$(var)).
< 1260168209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8.2 Functions for String Substitution and Analysis" in the GNU Make Manual.
< 1260168240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, I was looking under the using variables chapter
< 1260168256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually $(patsubst %x,%y,$(var)) to be exact.
< 1260168303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird thing: entering an absolute path starting with / in firefox works fine
< 1260168312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering one starting with ~ for your home dir
< 1260168313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't
< 1260168325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's in that chapter too: "6.3.1 Substitution References"
< 1260168327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this weird?
< 1260168335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why is it not?
< 1260168349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is a shell-specific thing, file paths aren't
< 1260168365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah missed that
< 1260168378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it works in the open and save dialogs however
< 1260168387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not in the url bar
< 1260168391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File paths are trivially distinguishable from web addresses and you need to support them anyway for command-line launching
< 1260168415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, that's GTK for you, not Firefox.
< 1260168457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably use $(DIAGRAMS:%=%.svg) -- maybe even $(DIAGRAMS:=.svg) -- if you don't want the .dot suffixes in the definition, but I guess that's up to you.
< 1260168478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why subgraphs doesn't seem to work
< 1260168484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh
< 1260168497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those .dot suffixes are fine
< 1260168834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neato ignores it
< 1260169086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, can't get clusters to draw an ellipse around :/
< 1260170213 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260171488 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-250.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260171713 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260171959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course, the SELECT statement is compatible with the SQL standard. But there are some extensions and some missing features."
< 1260171960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1260171969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensions can allow compatible yes
< 1260171972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but missing features?
< 1260172204 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL is about as nonstandardised as is theoretically possible for something so widely used
< 1260172213 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is a standard, just everyone seems to ignore it...)
< 1260172269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes I know, still doesn't make that quote from postgresql docs less funny
< 1260172799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260172800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260173131 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir -p //example.com/foo/bar
< 1260173133 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1260173164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, context?
< 1260173182 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Deewiant> File paths are trivially distinguishable from web addresses
< 1260173195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it is, there is no http: before that
< 1260173228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "/" in the beginning that gives it away (or "C:\" or whatever on windows)
< 1260173250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ at the start of a domain name is also unheard of
< 1260173254 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir -p http://example.com/foo/bar
< 1260173255 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway!
< 1260173258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially ~/
< 1260173273 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashes in domain names are so cute.
< 1260173326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I suggest is that the anything matching /^(\/|~\/)/ is a local url (~ has no special meaning in this regex dialect, whichever one it is)
< 1260173357 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it had better be PCRE, as posix regex doesn't treat ( specially
< 1260173373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, probably.
< 1260173382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, and that is only basic posix
< 1260173389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended posix does treat it specially
< 1260173394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use grep -E to see
< 1260173405 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok
< 1260173958 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260175317 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260175363 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I've just realised that the list of IRC channels I'm in which have had people join in them since I last looked at them forms a bloom hash of people who have joined IRC
< 1260175378 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very good one, though, because I'm not in enough channels
< 1260175387 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bloom table
< 1260175642 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260175844 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260176642 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1260177902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc
< 1260177943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this time i did read the first panel first, and immediately expected a pun
< 1260177986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1260177996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, reminder please
< 1260178016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mordechai, ghost, bank employee
< 1260178027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260178052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas i didn't manage to guess the pun beforehand
< 1260178063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i tried for very long
< 1260178081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I didn't get the pun. Or rather. I understand it is on "dead men tell no tails", but then "huh?"
< 1260178107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tales
< 1260178121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-known proverb, or so
< 1260178176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah but I don't see why "tail no tellers" is funny
< 1260178234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not a particularly good pun. it scans badly too :D
< 1260178264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is "teller" supposed to mean
< 1260178274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who tells something?
< 1260178277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1260178285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what?
< 1260178286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a banking profession
< 1260178297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah well that explains the pun indeed
< 1260179391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs, why can't graphviz -Tdia actually generate non-broken files
< 1260179423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is just too much to ask to get the actual edges you know, instead of just the nodes...
< 1260179868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your TURKEY BOMB semantics don't work, AFAICT it's possible to have multiple different PUDDINGs
< 1260179882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was planning to make PUDDINGs lazy so you didn't have to fit the whole thing in memory at once
< 1260179908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you made that language‽‽
< 1260179914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't
< 1260179924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of the few people to attempt to interpret the spec, though
< 1260179959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TRIVIA is a general name for all TRIVIA CONCERNING types, I think
< 1260179987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the drinking game is AFAICT the only way to do control flow
< 1260180001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can take advantage of the fact that there are two different ways to pass the TURKEY BOMB
< 1260180111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why would you want to email someone 2+2?
< 1260180117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you can do it in a nice little pipeline
< 1260180252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use thinspaces as the thousands specifier
< 1260180257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the Right Way to do it
< 1260180262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay dia is really annoying
< 1260180276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still graphviz doesn't do what I need so I guess I'm stuck with dia
< 1260180312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for taking derivatives of constants
< 1260180331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dia even lacks something as simple as "lock object" (which is really useful if you want to align/adjust but keep one of those objects fixed and instead prefer to move the other ones
< 1260180344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does there seem to be any way to tell it specific coordinates
< 1260180351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I can't seem to move using the cursor keys
< 1260180356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, move objects
< 1260180361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves the view instead (scrolling)
< 1260180362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go use the INTERCAL definition of "constant" (= "initialised variable you should try hard to avoid changing the value of to avoid confusing yourself"), then you can define the derivative of constants with respect to other constants
< 1260180382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the text label editor does *not* support selections
< 1260180432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm dia on my desktop seems to do a bit better than on my laptop. One of those issues solved
< 1260180607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents a makefile that calls dia on his desktop to automate exporting to svg. Since that on his laptop is broken
< 1260181147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think of that idea?
< 1260182408 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260183025 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260184255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I can imagine the Christians' response to growing evidence of a spherical earth. "Of course there is no doubt that microcurvature is real, but this macrocurvature theory is a ridiculous fabrication."'
< 1260184268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from a pharyngula comment thread)
< 1260184311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ehird is not here
< 1260184319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course not, it's silent after all
< 1260184353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait he said he wouldn't be here until next weekend? :(
< 1260184565 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260184617 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260184961 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260185118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what make is designed for, isn't it
< 1260185140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? building something on a remote system?
< 1260185151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following a series of repetitive steps automatically
< 1260185157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, by scp-ing files over, running a command then scping them back
< 1260185164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1260185189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.svg: %.dia Makefile
< 1260185189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : scp $< $(REMHOST):$(REMPATH)/
< 1260185189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ssh $(REMHOST) dia -e $(REMPATH)/$@ $(REMPATH)/$<
< 1260185189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : scp $(REMHOST):$(REMPATH)/$@ $@
< 1260185192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very pretty
< 1260185475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260185514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so lets see the crazy way I did today: generate basic thing in graphviz, then export to dot, fix up broken export result manually in dia (and fix the things I couldn't do in graphviz, which was why I needed dia in the first place), then export the whole thing to svg, fix up some minor issues in inkscape, then export to pdf
< 1260185521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for about 20 diagrams
< 1260185542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the whole thing/each diagram/
< 1260185641 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260185854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot quite find out whether that thing was an asimov quote or not
< 1260185951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what thing?
< 1260185961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comment quote i pasted
< 1260185986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that
< 1260185991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google it?
< 1260186002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried
< 1260186015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top hit is the comment thread itself
< 1260186029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was just inspired
< 1260186105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the idea also appears in a pandasthumb thread
< 1260186118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 2004
< 1260186148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260186161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh btw another thing I noticed is that Wolfram really likes boasting.
< 1260186168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spherical earth... isn't that universally accepted apart from a few lunatics
< 1260186171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that took you a while....
< 1260186180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see next few lines
< 1260186203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an analogy you dumbass
< 1260186213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to anti-evolutionists
< 1260186238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I wasn't aware of the context.
< 1260186310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a single word which gives 1 google hit all by itself is a "googlewhackblatt", according to New Scientist
< 1260186320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who coined the word specifically so that it would appear on exactly one website for a while
< 1260186472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an even more obscure word for it. however it is essentially impossible to find it because the author took strict steps to keep it self-referential.
< 1260186481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that supposed to be some sort of serious magazine or such?
< 1260186490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1260186497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the penultimate page is rather less serious
< 1260186499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was on ther
< 1260186500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there
< 1260186502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260186539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like worsethanfailure, except it refers to science not programming and it's still firmly on the correct side of the shark
< 1260186565 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah Last Word
< 1260186572 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was good last time I read it
< 1260186579 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can read some of it online
< 1260186587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, last word's the last page
< 1260186591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penultimate page is Feedback
< 1260186611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Last Word is pretty interesting too, it's basically gives bounties for answering interesting everyday science queries)
< 1260187536 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260187729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gingersnap soda: DELICIOUS.
< 1260188741 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, ok
< 1260188784 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"brb restarting"
< 1260189000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I was reading the discussion about zzo38 being like Chuck Moore, and I accidentally misread it as Chuck Norris
< 1260189005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was amusing, to say the least
< 1260189025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< >_>
< 1260189421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe
< 1260189435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made me actual laugh out loud, that's rare
< 1260189445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Norris jokes do that
< 1260189461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? make people laugh out loud? not really
< 1260189474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but comparing zzo to Chuck Norris did
< 1260189510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you said "accidentally misread" it. It would be pretty strange to intentionally misread that one
< 1260189519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was that qualification really required?
< 1260189550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always unnecessary words
< 1260189756 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have considered some Chck Moore Facts, but ran out of ideas quickly
< 1260189769 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stretch the truth very well in that way
< 1260189811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First Chuck Moore removes the inessential complexity of the problem; then Chuck Moore removes the inessential complexity of the problem; then the problem surrenders."
< 1260189832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Moore's so good at computing that uses raw IRC through his own syntax highlighter!
< 1260189835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the approach that he advocates in his writings
< 1260189913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260189913 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260189913 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260189913 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260189918 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260189948 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260189948 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260189948 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260189948 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260189948 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260190026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260190036 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260190217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Chuck Moore's so good at computing that uses raw IRC through his own syntax highlighter!
< 1260190219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awesome
< 1260190222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should make a new meme
< 1260190362 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260191262 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-16-83.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260193125 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260193298 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? :)
< 1260193355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adam_d, really what?
< 1260194003 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260194283 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260194353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260196080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1260196562 0 :Oranjer!n=HP_Admin@adsl-71-0-97.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260196801 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone alive
< 1260196802 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1260196848 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am
< 1260196861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains...
< 1260196915 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi oi oi
< 1260196927 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh
< 1260196939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm
< 1260197330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260197372 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260197374 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1260197380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1260197392 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1260197407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about this?
< 1260197464 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...well, there's no turning back now, anyway
< 1260197474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true
< 1260197579 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...I mean, will there be a sign?
< 1260197614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative
< 1260197647 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is...is that a joke? I can't remember...anything
< 1260197656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1260197690 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1260197735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you owe me 200 dollars
< 1260197751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a reminder
< 1260197753 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what denomination?
< 1260197773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you are in the US aren't you
< 1260197799 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1260197804 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, Southern baptist?
< 1260197831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one of those fundamentalist ones?
< 1260197838 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260197843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no
< 1260197847 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate fundamentalist dollars too
< 1260197885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should go by canadian ones. even if they're less worth
< 1260197908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian dollars are not worthless!
< 1260197919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say that
< 1260197951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought they'd be less fundamentalist
< 1260197986 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260197988 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1260198007 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Canadian separatist dollars are worth half, I think
< 1260198030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260198065 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260198074 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :borders are borders, even if you can't see them from space
< 1260198190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not cross that line
< 1260198208 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point
< 1260198405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we are going in circles
< 1260198430 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets go in octagons instead
< 1260198432 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dodecagons
< 1260198479 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "The Phantom Tollbooth"?
< 1260198490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1260198491 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260198502 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want some subtraction soup
< 1260198503 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomes
< 1260198506 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260198691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as it isn't additive
< 1260198718 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260198719 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any additives in subtraction soup
< 1260198727 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhh
< 1260198742 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260198750 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I first read that as "addictive:, I am confused
< 1260198765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: that was actually intended
< 1260198921 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay
< 1260198930 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, ha. ha!
< 1260198965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1260199146 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww
< 1260199160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1260199255 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1260199265 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thinking of the books I gotta write
< 1260199278 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the buziniss I gotta start
< 1260199287 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have to write like 7 books for this algebra course
< 1260199301 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by tuesday
< 1260199306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you are doing things backwards
< 1260199337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUH?
< 1260199373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in courses, you are supposed to read books not write them
< 1260199411 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1260199428 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how would i know how to read them if i haven't written ones myself?
< 1260199428 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could always be some algebra-book-writing course
< 1260199434 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird, yeah
< 1260199445 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...I have to disagree on that
< 1260199461 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've written a sentence, you can theoretically write a book
< 1260199505 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, it is no more necessary to write a book in order to read them than it is to learn how to make a car from scratch in order to drive it
< 1260199506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you never write a sentence, it is much harder
< 1260199554 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned you people are really weird.
< 1260199564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to disagree on that ... logic
< 1260199575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's the fumes
< 1260199589 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fumes
< 1260199595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the logic, mind you, not the conclusion
< 1260199615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the madness-inducing fumes
< 1260199619 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I also disagree on the logic
< 1260199622 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left too much out
< 1260199634 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have explicitly stated the assumptions
< 1260199697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to really state it properly, you would have to write a book, which would defy the whole purpose
< 1260199829 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1260199829 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1260199829 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only...
< 1260199835 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could store the assumptions on a site
< 1260199879 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you pick and choose which ones
< 1260199885 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generates a webpage
< 1260199890 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you post the link!
< 1260199916 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of _Paradise Lost In Cyberspace_
< 1260199938 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a website there that contained the proof of God's existance.
< 1260199946 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1260199955 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did...God disappear afterward?
< 1260199957 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was infinite, and you never got any close no matter much you read it.
< 1260199962 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260199968 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like Hofstadter stuff
< 1260200059 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.angelfire.com/pq/radiohaha/PLICS.html
< 1260200083 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with a somewhat thematically-similar one by the same guy: http://www.angelfire.com/pq/radiohaha/PLIS.html
< 1260200462 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260202160 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260202191 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1260202430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260203253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260203509 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260203627 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260204426 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260204624 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260208360 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260208656 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wl01-copier-103a.dc.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260208741 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260208777 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260208788 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wl01-copier-103a.dc.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260208917 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260208987 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.126.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260208992 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260209030 0 :OxE6|!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-3.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260209038 0 :OxE6|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260209147 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260209450 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260210593 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260214353 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bai"
< 1260219390 0 :OxE6|!n=mu@wl01-copier-103a.dc.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260219392 0 :OxE6|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mu
< 1260219394 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260221870 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260221895 0 :jpc1!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260221951 0 :jpc1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260222046 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260222111 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260223366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260223749 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260224028 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260224041 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-3.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260224047 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260225461 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260225507 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260227167 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260228154 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260228773 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260228838 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260230215 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260230253 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260230259 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260232099 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260232252 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260234468 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260235464 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260235644 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260236125 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260236351 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"OMG NO!!!!!! DON"T TOUCH MY LEFT PINKY!!!!!"
< 1260237788 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260237794 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260238192 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260238628 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260239599 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242380 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242380 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242380 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242387 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242387 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242389 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242389 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260242459 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260242459 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260243167 0 :sunrider!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260244263 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260244677 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244678 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244682 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244682 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244684 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244685 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244685 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260244892 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244892 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260244931 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245102 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260245116 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245126 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260245191 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245248 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245249 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245249 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245253 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245253 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245254 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245254 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245254 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245317 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245317 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245396 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello guys, I think you might find this interesting: http://fi.muni.cz/~xgoljer/bf.txt :)
< 1260245564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260245640 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245641 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245645 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245675 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245675 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245838 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245838 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245839 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260245900 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245900 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245900 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245900 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245900 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245900 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260245968 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246147 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246147 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-112-215.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246155 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246184 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246184 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246184 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246188 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246631 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260246771 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246854 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246854 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246855 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246855 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260246885 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246885 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260246962 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260252518 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260252522 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260253079 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260254497 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260255498 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busy beaver is a computer science problem to finding the smallest Turing Machine that outputs the most data and eventually halts. This project is an implementation of a Turing Machine in Python and C++ that runs the busy beavers. It also comes with Turing Machine’s tape visualization tool written in Perl.
< 1260255531 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the first few Busy beavers for brainfuck?
< 1260255547 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar ? if someone has done a search
< 1260255627 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260255641 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260255742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is the one for length 1. Happy to help.
< 1260255755 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that print??????
< 1260255778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely a zero byte.
< 1260256004 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best way to try and find busy beavers?
< 1260256050 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's the smallest brainfuck program that halts and outputs more bytes than the program code has?
< 1260256087 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari I guess if I found the first few busy beavers I would answer that ?
< 1260256164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a nagging feeling that the subject of a busy-beaver-like function for brainfuck was talked about here once, but I can't really seem to find any references to it.
< 1260256228 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwhat's another language than brainfuck which automatic termination analysis is easier?
< 1260256269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you assume a brainfuck implementation where the cell values are bounded and wrap around, my guess for Ilari's program would be "+[.+]" -- that doesn't look like it could be simplified very much.
< 1260256295 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right it is ok for Ilaris question not to terminate
< 1260256317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he said "that halts"; but that one does halt if the cell values wrap-around.
< 1260256323 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260256348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course for a question that smells so theoretical, you might opt for some sort of idealized infinite-tape infinite-cell-size brainfuck.
< 1260256382 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... And with unbounded cells it should be more interesting. Of course one has to define what "output byte" means in that case. '.' invocation?
< 1260256422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think you should count the number of . operations there.
< 1260256470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And specify deterministicalistically what , will do, or disallow it completely.
< 1260256480 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah disallow ,
< 1260256499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least shortest program that loads cell under pointer by at least 5 greater than its length could be used to construct program that prints more than its length.
< 1260256581 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260256636 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260256681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, +++[...-] will output 9 values -- the same as the program length -- and you can add one + or ., so that's an upper bound for the size of the smallest Ilari-program.
< 1260256689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See, I made up a name for it.)
< 1260256715 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))
< 1260256780 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++[....-] is first of those two in ASCII order.
< 1260256892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the busy-beaver like function for BF is of course how many times program of n bytes can invoke . and still halt. Obiviously, its strictly increasing function.
< 1260256896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- comes before . so +++[-....] would be before that.
< 1260256928 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can equate [-....] and [....-]
< 1260256965 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it is
< 1260256987 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and those programs can't contain ',')
< 1260257146 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a good strategy: enum and run every brainfuck program of the set length -- with a timeout
< 1260257161 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that timed out you keep them in a list to inspect by hand (bcaesue they might not terminate)
< 1260257199 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the first brainfuck program that generates some output that is just too huge to deal with?
< 1260257203 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that terminates)
< 1260257219 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess nobody has found it yet....
< 1260257422 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any better way/improvements??
< 1260257579 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know people have tried this for tm's, http://www.answers.com/busy%20beaver#current_6-state.2C_2-symbol_best_contender
< 1260257698 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ lower bound functions
< 1260257729 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well finding the minimum vavlue for it is hard but its still silly
< 1260258118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit silly i suppose. i wonder what their methods are
< 1260258271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lower bound functions, for some reason you just meant lower bounds for specific values
< 1260258286 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lower bound function
< 1260258295 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any computable function is a lower bound
< 1260258301 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260258345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> silly
< 1260258422 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that 100 byte BF program, lower bound for number of times it can invoke . and still halt is 11 757 312. For 1 000 byte program, same costructs give 382 748 214 098 589 572 136 663 385 960 069 669 070 838 715 433 037 453 066 072 476 832...
< 1260258442 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what??
< 1260258446 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get these numbers
< 1260258462 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a construction and calculate from that.
< 1260258624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ah, you've been calculating busy beaver for BF?
< 1260258792 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260258930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: And what was the construction for those numbers?
< 1260259009 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-184.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260259156 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some structure the multiplies the number of . by 6 for each level... and +7 somewhere.
< 1260259199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260259200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260259208 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1260259463 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, looks like one can do much better. 100 byte program giving 2^2^2097152 .'s
< 1260259492 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari you've written it?
< 1260259790 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. It doesn't quite work out. Attempting to fix it yields only 2^2^262144...
< 1260259865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the maximum Turing Machine complexity for which the busy beaver number is known exactly?
< 1260259887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, if we keep brute-forcing up through the complexities
< 1260259897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll eventually find out what the simplest mathematical question we don't know the answer to is
< 1260259990 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260260010 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in my link, was it size 4
< 1260260016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260260029 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... anybody want to figure out wheither this halts and if it does, how many times it outputs stuff: ++++++[>++++++<-]>>+<[-[>>+<<-]>[>>++<<-]>]>>+<[-[>>+<<-]>[>>++<<-]>]>>+<[-[>>+<<-]>[>>++<<-]>]>[.-]
< 1260260043 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one tape symbol, and 4 states that is
< 1260260062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's just a copy of the Wikipedia article in a worse interface...
< 1260260089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm not sure why that's relevant
< 1260260108 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would use wikipedia, but i also check words, and answers has a simpler url.
< 1260260153 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it got screwed up somehow: 2^2^68719476736...
< 1260260191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: does your web browser not have a search box in the top-right corner that can be set to Wikipedia?
< 1260260242 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's set to google atm.
< 1260260258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I change the setting according to what I'm looking for
< 1260260261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine even has an Esolang setting
< 1260260285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, for some reason, to look up words I use Wikipedia but with a wikt: prefix)
< 1260260376 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you like big things? regexes and now bb...
< 1260260458 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be even more powerful ways to pump up the numbers than exponential pumping. Perhaps not in 100-byte programs but for larger ones...
< 1260260475 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260260487 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's is always a more complicated way
< 1260260508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i'm fairly sure there are better ways in <100 programs...
< 1260260515 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*byte
< 1260260544 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's not *that much* less powerful than tm's
< 1260260628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly obvious how to compile BF to a TM
< 1260260644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much just a TM with a few extra restrictions
< 1260260662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're interested in the other way
< 1260260668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well direction
< 1260260695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260260712 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just uncall the compiler
< 1260260945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You have a brainfuck interpreter, what do you think about that program Ilari asked about?
< 1260260946 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i find this topic fascinating each time i run it i get an infinite number of brainfuck instructions to execute ( base 8 fnord should a thread be given a lot of
< 1260260957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work
< 1260260960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because not all possible TMs are the direct translation of some BF program
< 1260260981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that fungot comment would have been so perfect if it stopped before the paren
< 1260260982 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sourceforge.net/ donate/ fnord to http://en.wikibooks.org/ wiki/ 2006_esolang_contestcommittee.
< 1260261062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh, http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/2006_esolang_contest_committee is blank
< 1260261075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no entries in the deletion log, either
< 1260261111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should count the likelihood of fungot mentioning brainfuck to see how much of a coincidence that was; as far as I know, it still doesn't use the "input" sentence at all when constructing the reply.
< 1260261111 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'll bet this would be good for anything but a k-like combinator ( fnord) fnord
< 1260261123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what that was accidental??
< 1260261129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i though fizzie wrote that answer :D
< 1260261148 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i find this topic fascinating each time i run it i get an infinite number of brainfuck instructions to execute" <<< this is a perfect answer :|
< 1260261163 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically not true, but clearly a strong AI
< 1260261179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`qdb fizzie: i find this topic fascinating each time i run it i get an infinite number of brainfuck instructions to execute
< 1260261180 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey man that's python or something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
< 1260261180 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260261191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what's HackEgo's qdb syntax again?
< 1260261654 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-133-82.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260261930 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260262216 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260262324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, hm about that link you posted before
< 1260262325 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260262334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh.
< 1260262342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, fix this somehow ^
< 1260262354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(compare with nick list maybe?)
< 1260262406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, anyway, you say in the comment at the start that rcfunge is broken? Yet iirc it passes those parts in mycology. So care to say how exactly those instructions are broken
< 1260262406 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260262442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, this interests me greatly since I'm the developer of one of the other befunge-98 interpreters (cfunge).
< 1260262442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260262442 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260262465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Deewiant will be interested too, since he wrote the befunge-98 testsuite mycology
< 1260262506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said that wrong; it is "this is relevant to my interests", not "this interests me".
< 1260262524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh?
< 1260262560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it seems to be "reflect on EOF/error"
< 1260262561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I'm referring to http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Relevant of course. (Unless you were one of the people avoiding links to that site.)
< 1260262565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc cfunge handles that
< 1260262576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, it even does it for stdout
< 1260262581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it ignores SIGPIPE)
< 1260262591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I avoid it of course
< 1260262604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really "of course", but whatever.
< 1260262651 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260262652 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260262653 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260262699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, considering http://fi.muni.cz/~xgoljer/rcfunge-fix.txt I'm confident cfunge will work for you
< 1260262699 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260262757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, be aware of that cfunge requires a *nix system. It won't work on Windows except under cygwin, and even under cygwin it requires quite a bit of work to make it work
< 1260262758 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260262912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260262977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world!
< 1260262981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260262983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1260262996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, where is egobot?........................................................
< 1260263022 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, just tested it, it works under cfunge
< 1260263136 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260263146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit irritating there is no newline after End
< 1260263153 0 :rodgort`!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263224 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263224 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263224 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263273 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263273 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263273 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263273 0 :Ilari!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263281 0 :Ilari_!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263380 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-133-82.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263380 0 :lifthrasiir!i=daXp7mox@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263381 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260263388 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1260263731 0 :Ilari__!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263742 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263742 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263812 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263815 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263815 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263815 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260263849 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260263850 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263850 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263850 0 :Ilari!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260263913 0 :lifthrasiir!i=vAO7W2tp@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260264068 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@86.158.81.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260264076 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-133-82.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260264297 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260264315 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-133-82.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260264452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection refused
< 1260264470 0 :Ilari__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari
< 1260264617 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260264798 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-rrvvdacyvphuxhht JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260265075 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260265075 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260265131 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@86.158.81.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260265131 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260265311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1260265319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260265621 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260265736 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260265787 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260265840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said mathematica was slow, but fast at some specific things iirc?
< 1260265851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260265924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, slow on stuff like?
< 1260265943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, managing NextPrime[800!] in less than a minute doesn't seem too slow to me for example
< 1260265966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: slow on stuff that isn't a simple combination of primitives
< 1260265974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NextPrime[800!] is a simple combination of primitives
< 1260265978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right
< 1260265993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any time you have to write a loop by hand, for instance (even using map or fold)
< 1260266001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever they're called in Mathematica)
< 1260266019 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260266028 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260266038 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260266081 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260266100 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260266114 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266114 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266115 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266116 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260266116 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1260266170 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260266170 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260266423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Map is called Map -- "Map[f, expr] or f/@expr applies f to each element on the first level in expr" -- and fold is called Fold -- "Fold[f, x, list] gives the last element of FoldList[f, x, list]. FoldList[f, x, {a, b, ...}] gives {x, f[x, a], f[f[x, a], b], ...}."
< 1260266529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260266810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh I can't get parallel stuff in mathematica to work
< 1260266815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to block the main thread
< 1260266833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't evaluate something in one thread then evaluate other stuff elsewhere
< 1260267246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how much of mathematica is written in mathematica?
< 1260267260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering what you said about speed I guess "almost none"?
< 1260267264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none that matters
< 1260267278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either wrappers or written in C, I think (although I don't know for certain as I haven't seen the code)
< 1260267304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the docs claim that mathematica is so fast and great and everything
< 1260267307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260267347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/TheSoftwareEngineeringOfMathematica.html
< 1260267466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, they claim it's fast because things like NextPrime have been so carefully optimised by hand
< 1260267474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and written in a non-Mathematica language
< 1260267488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't really realise that if it were truly fast, they wouldn't /have/ to do that
< 1260267571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260267586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so they are saying that C is fast basically
< 1260267604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're saying their algos are fast too
< 1260267607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is interesting, and important
< 1260267616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why Mathematica is so fast for doing combinations of primitive
< 1260267618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*primitives
< 1260267622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the primitives are implemented very well
< 1260267643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it basically has similar speed properties to Thutu once you try to do something more complicated
< 1260267649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's much the same language, just with a worse syntax
< 1260267665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, in theory you could optimise better by taking advantage of exactly how the primitive is used
< 1260267677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but AFAICT it doesn't
< 1260267711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if the domain isn't all integers, but only all odd integers, you can skip checking in prime checks if a number is a multiple of 2
< 1260267719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one won't save much
< 1260267733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect there are cases which saves a whole lot in theory
< 1260267752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders how to ask Mathematica for a list of all even primes
< 1260267757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Thutu is really slow isn't it?
< 1260267762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without optimising by hand and just writing [2]
< 1260267773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because it has to keep rescanning the string to find out what to do
< 1260267780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's O(n) slower than other langs, typically
< 1260267792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a processor that kept losing the IP and having to scan the entire program to find where it was, it's like that
< 1260267797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh. Why not ask it to find an instance that disproves the Riemann conjecture?
< 1260267815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean it doesn't use any AST?
< 1260267816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the first should be relatively easily expressible in a programming language, but I'm not sure it is
< 1260267826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I invented a feather-like language
< 1260267827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I don't mean that
< 1260267830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not as such
< 1260267832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspired by
< 1260267838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it operates on pattern matching behind the scenes
< 1260267852 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a feather-like tarpit?
< 1260267877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: go on, although I doubt feather-like is very easy to achieve at all without being utterly different
< 1260267893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think a mathematica notebook, but every change of a definition of a function or variable below will update all prior usages of it. Of course this becomes interesting if you use it in a condition such that you only redefine it if it has it's original definition
< 1260267915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it would never have been redefined
< 1260267915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica actually /has/ that, to some extent
< 1260267920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to a contradiction
< 1260267922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put Interactive[] around the definition, or something like that
< 1260267927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260267930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have to edit actual uses of the number
< 1260267939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can edit processed results to get a goal-seek
< 1260267942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*{2}
< 1260267947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260267948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was forgetting Mathematica syntax...
< 1260267969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think:
< 1260267970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=2
< 1260267979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(here I don't know mathematica syntax:)
< 1260267987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if[x==2] x=4
< 1260267993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably x:=2, but I'm not sure either
< 1260267993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would lead to a paradox
< 1260267998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be if[x==2,x=4]
< 1260268000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very similar to the grand father paradox
< 1260268006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay
< 1260268014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, it is =, not :=, I think now
< 1260268017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm vaguely confused
< 1260268021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said =
< 1260268022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260268023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not really meant to use variables in Mathematica
< 1260268064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same way as you're not really meant to use loops in J
< 1260268072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it claims to be state of the art at procedural programming. As well as offering unique enhanced advantages for functional programming.
< 1260268074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although presumably they're expressable somehow (maybe a convoluted waY)
< 1260268079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way
< 1260268079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or was it the reverse?)
< 1260268083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hit caps lock by mistake
< 1260268097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the claims have been Wolframised
< 1260268099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, strange effect for Ctrl-Y
< 1260268107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1260268107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah. Actually it claims:
< 1260268118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to write y shift-0
< 1260268126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hit capslock-y shift-0 because capslock is next to shift
< 1260268135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language."
< 1260268138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I typed that y with my right hand, the left hand was already going to shift at the time
< 1260268140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even sillier
< 1260268142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a-capslock because a is next to capslock?
< 1260268142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than what I suggested
< 1260268144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^
< 1260268151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think so
< 1260268176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think Mathematica really 'gets' functional programming
< 1260268180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did you see that about bugs found in rc/funge above? Some stuff mycology didn't test.
< 1260268189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen an implementation of SKI in Mathematica, but it didn't define it as functions but as rewriting
< 1260268197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, See what `Fuco` said in the logs
< 1260268223 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260268223 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260268223 0 :lifthrasiir!i=vAO7W2tp@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260268223 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260268223 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260268226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycouser tests nothing explicitly
< 1260268253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, does ccbi handle it?
< 1260268256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see whether it handles EOF correctly, redirect /dev/null to the stdin of your interpreter.
< 1260268260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course it does.
< 1260268262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked that cfunge handles what he described correctly
< 1260268269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even for output?
< 1260268280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that's quite important too you know
< 1260268281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, but I'm not sure
< 1260268342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what outputting to /dev/zero does
< 1260268351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, IIRC
< 1260268355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just ignores the output
< 1260268362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as /dev/null then
< 1260268365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260268371 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest84808
< 1260268378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading from /dev/null gives EOF, doesn't it?
< 1260268379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless /dev/null is optimised for faster ignoring of output?
< 1260268384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc yes
< 1260268388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that makes no sense, surely?
< 1260268395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one can optimize ignorance
< 1260268411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it could. It could be done so that the data is not even sent to the kernel at all
< 1260268418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would require standard library support
< 1260268424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theoretically possible
< 1260268437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that slow down all output that /wasn't/ ignored?
< 1260268444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay.
< 1260268448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1260268453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *could* happen in *theory*
< 1260268469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also not if you use quajets (or whatever the term was)
< 1260268495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh can't find that
< 1260268501 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, thanks for your comments, I've just came back from school
< 1260268538 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea the problem was on "reflect on failure" on I/O operations, rcfunge was unable to determine EOF
< 1260268553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, RC/Funge is not very high quality. I don't recommend it.
< 1260268561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recommend it either
< 1260268572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`, Deewiant wrote ccbi and mycology, I wrote cfunge.
< 1260268573 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260268576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use our software
< 1260268582 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just found out funge this sunday so I've grabbed the first one ;)
< 1260268585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1260268627 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll check it out
< 1260268657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Fuco`: Deewiant's a world expert on Funge interpreter correctness testing
< 1260268658 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260268665 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've revised some of my code at the boring lecture, so I'm gonna update it and test on something else ;0
< 1260268676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccbi and cfunge are likely the best interps to use, as a result of it
< 1260268682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh found it
< 1260268685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://lwn.net/Articles/270081/
< 1260268689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how's Language::Befunge getting on, by the way?
< 1260268694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I bet it could be efficient with THAT
< 1260268725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would like to point out that efunge is rather good too
< 1260268728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess it does a good job at validity but is still slow as hell?
< 1260268741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, that's how everything works in Underload/Unlambda
< 1260268748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's my guess too, I just wanted it confirmed
< 1260268791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been benchmarking lately (or funging at all really) but I doubt it's got enough speed to be usable for complex programs
< 1260268797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that article's just inspired a crazy idea in me
< 1260268800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT /dev/null
< 1260268815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to write to /dev/null, the code calling it gets rewritten to not output at all
< 1260268835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I read the thesis in question, very interesting.
< 1260268856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I bet that was was synthesis would have done
< 1260268871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it wouldn't have called it that
< 1260268939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 from the discussion section:
< 1260268942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objection 1: "How much of the performance improvement is due to my ideas, and how much is due to writing in assembler, and tuning the hell out of the thing?"
< 1260268945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of that thesis
< 1260268951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260269058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1260269082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260269281 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260269333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was the last you saw?
< 1260269377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Tuesday 08 December 2009] [04:30:51 |pm] | No output.
< 1260269378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Tuesday 08 December 2009] [04:31:02 |pm] | um, what's HackEgo's qdb syntax again?
< 1260269380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this connection
< 1260269387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what I saw on the other one
< 1260269390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err that I never saw
< 1260269396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh
< 1260269400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you try to write to /dev/null, the code calling it gets rewritten to not output at all
< 1260269400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, I read the thesis in question, very interesting.
< 1260269400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, and I bet that was was synthesis would have done
< 1260269400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : except it wouldn't have called it that
< 1260269400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 from the discussion section:
< 1260269401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Objection 1: "How much of the performance improvement is due to my ideas, and how much is due to writing in assembler, and tuning the hell out of the thing?"
< 1260269404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of that thesis
< 1260269406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that
< 1260269406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : XD
< 1260269409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all the way?
< 1260269418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw everything up to the quit on the other connection
< 1260269424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it was a quit by hand, not a lagquit
< 1260269427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1260269518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there something wrong with sending myself a zipped tgz that itself contains other zips and tgzs?
< 1260269535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, zipped tgz?
< 1260269542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pointless
< 1260269546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1260269550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what?
< 1260269558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there was a directory tree full of zipfiles that I needed to send to another computer
< 1260269567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well sure, so tar them up
< 1260269569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I tarred the directory tree
< 1260269572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zip them with no compression
< 1260269574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put z in the tar command because why not
< 1260269579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not all the files in it were compressed
< 1260269587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well why did you put it in a .zip afterwards?
< 1260269595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, because the data was private, I put it in a passworded zip
< 1260269598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260269602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent it getting snooped on over the email
< 1260269609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not gpg it?
< 1260269616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not that careful with my own stuff normally, but for other people's sensitive data, I'm not sending it over email unencrypted)
< 1260269627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because zip encryption is easy to break iirc
< 1260269642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are talking a lot less time than gpg here unless I misremember
< 1260269649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked a very long password so as to make life harder when breaking it
< 1260269667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, none of this is meant to stand up to a concerted attack, someone with the resources to do that could just hack the server here, or my login on it
< 1260269676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc it used to use a easy to break encryption algorightm
< 1260269681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithm*
< 1260269694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though google suggests winzip uses 128-bit AES at least
< 1260269702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything about zip standard
< 1260269757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 7zip offers either the old easy to break one and 256-bit AES
< 1260269797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the command-line "zip" on Fedora
< 1260269802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cryptsetup status /dev/mapper/root
< 1260269802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/mapper//dev/mapper/root is active:
< 1260269803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, CentOS
< 1260269807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[correct output listed]
< 1260269813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(grr, I get Red Hat derivatives confused mentally...)
< 1260269814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a bit funny that path
< 1260269822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what version it is
< 1260269847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bad luck:
< 1260269853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -e Encrypt the contents of the zip archive using a password which is entered on the terminal in response to a prompt (this will not be echoed;
< 1260269853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if standard error is not a tty, zip will exit with an error). The password prompt is repeated to save the user from typing errors. Note
< 1260269853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that this encrypts with standard pkzip encryption which is considered weak.
< 1260269876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, congrats, if anyone wanted to read that they could easily have done
< 1260269889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: why not just scp it
< 1260269894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been way more secure
< 1260269897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easier to do
< 1260269902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to a computer that wasn't network-connected at the time?
< 1260269913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fair enough, still gpg is required
< 1260269916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has port 22 firewalled, and isn't running sshd as it is?
< 1260269924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it is running sshd
< 1260269928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has port 22 firewalled anyway
< 1260269945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpg wouldn't really work without a public key to encrypt with
< 1260269946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because the pkzip style encryption is so easy to break it takes seconds iirc
< 1260269956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, use your own public key duh?
< 1260269964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know it off by heart
< 1260269977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also for gpg:
< 1260269979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lwn.net/Articles/270081/
< 1260269979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think it's pretty unlikely anyone was intercepting the email in transit anyway
< 1260269980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260269983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-fail
< 1260269986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -c, --symmetric encryption only with symmetric cipher
< 1260269989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1260270027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just pointing out your protection wasn't really helpful at all
< 1260270161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the fsck bug seems to have fixed itself
< 1260270169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, my computer fscked itself just fine an hour or so ago
< 1260270274 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Fuco
< 1260270323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260270347 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260270625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you ever run into issues with _FILE_OFFSET_BITS?
< 1260270632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know you are still on 32-bit
< 1260270640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1260270711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah I guess you seldom use files larger than 2 GB?
< 1260270723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, pretty rare
< 1260270733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I'd use a file that big would be a full backup of everything
< 1260270743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, I'm not sure if it would be that large
< 1260270746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I just read about the issues it caused, and I got a feeling that can best be described as nostalgia
< 1260270762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used 32-bit for ages
< 1260270851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems that my last nonincremental backup was february 2008, and it's less than 1 GB
< 1260270865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a symptom of me growing up with floppy disks
< 1260270996 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260271037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I have over 200 GB in my last non-incremental backup
< 1260271046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was this summer
< 1260271076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1260271083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you store that much? it wouldn't even fit on a USB stick
< 1260271100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd need too many CDs to burn it on to be practical
< 1260271125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, currently on external disk
< 1260271128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use tape
< 1260271191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw that is just the desktop, the laptop adds another 70 GB or so by now
< 1260271197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not it's base
< 1260271203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I bought it this summer
< 1260271208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to not back up generated files unless they're small
< 1260271212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/this/the last/
< 1260271228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well indeed. I don't backup svn checkouts and such
< 1260271230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I back up the .rg (original) and .mid (small) versions of my music
< 1260271236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the .ogg versions
< 1260271239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with that it would easily add another 100 GB
< 1260271247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no time to sort through that sort of stuff
< 1260271277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbiab
< 1260271910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1260271951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, so which did you choose? cfunge or ccbi?
< 1260271986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<`Fuco`> I've just found out funge this sunday so I've grabbed the first one ;) <-- a bit hard to believe considering that program. You must have spent the entire time on befunge since then
< 1260271999 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours
< 1260272020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, hah
< 1260272033 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that hard when you think about how it works
< 1260272057 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically pushdown automata with a lot of convenient methods (like variables etc)
< 1260272059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some non-idiomatic parts in there indeed
< 1260272069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first: befunge98 is not .txt but .b98
< 1260272084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, it is self modifying
< 1260272085 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then some browsers won't open it ;)
< 1260272094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, I wget-ed it anyway
< 1260272099 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260272123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, btw you are aware of the "print gnirts" idiom: >:#,_ right?
< 1260272155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you never used it as far as I could find with a quick grep
< 1260272159 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot style
< 1260272160 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it turns out he did send something, a classical fnord photo is copyrighted by the photographer and so on
< 1260272172 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope as I said I've only found it sunday so ;)
< 1260272180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, oh btw fungot is written in befunge 98
< 1260272181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: although i'm not quite sure on how to blend them fnord, they would have
< 1260272182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1260272183 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1260272192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, it runs on cfunge
< 1260272223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, well >:#,_ is a useful idiom to know
< 1260272255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_,#! #:< in the other direction
< 1260272276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there are vertical versions of course)
< 1260272282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is there any version based on x?
< 1260272288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be possible
< 1260272294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or >:#,_# of course, although it won't deal correctly with a null string
< 1260272308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that ever exit?
< 1260272321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1260272328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that side
< 1260272330 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's there the :
< 1260272339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, duplicate item on top of stack
< 1260272344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the _ consumes it
< 1260272348 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260272352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:#,_v# is of course the correct-with-null version
< 1260272357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, so if we decide to print it we still need it around
< 1260272363 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it will print null terminated string
< 1260272368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, yes
< 1260272379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, which is what a 0"gnirts" is
< 1260272384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it is mentioned in the spec
< 1260272385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I managed to backspace over the : at the end but anyway
< 1260272388 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1260272400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, spec is at http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html
< 1260272416 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH i see, so i dont have to use number k,
< 1260272419 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever ;)
< 1260272443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, only assuming you can trust there to be no zero bytes in that string
< 1260272464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus k has it's own host of issues
< 1260272474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you tag your strings with the length then 1-k, works
< 1260272490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for strings of length 1
< 1260272496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260272499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260272504 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'd figure that out in some time ;D
< 1260272529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, also I believe ccbi still doesn't handle nested k in a sensible way
< 1260272543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge at least tries to handle it in some sort of not totally confused way
< 1260272544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your definition of sensible might be different from mine :-P
< 1260272553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes
< 1260272558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess it was, last time we discussed it
< 1260272566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested k is by definition not sensible
< 1260272573 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that bot is WTF, it will take some time just to read it
< 1260272586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heck I don't even remember what exactly cfunge does XD
< 1260272597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, I don't think I ever read the whole thing
< 1260272612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, oh and fizzie in here wrote it
< 1260272630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, there are some docs at the end
< 1260272637 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1260272639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly about how space is used
< 1260272647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't you have an annotated version
< 1260272667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some page where you displayed info on hover?
< 1260272673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I completely misremember?
< 1260272746 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crazy that people actually write socket libraries for stuff like this
< 1260272762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuco, oh? well there is a fingerprint for it
< 1260272763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK
< 1260272769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much to write, the only socket fingerprint is pretty much a C binding
< 1260272772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge, ccbi and rcfunge at least implement it
< 1260272779 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yea
< 1260272781 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :D
< 1260272784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it is a bit of C binding
< 1260272855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "a bit" seems to equal "around 340 lines"
< 1260272864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to a LOC tool
< 1260272870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least for cfunge)
< 1260272878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course quite a bit of that is metadata
< 1260272909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :276 sock.d
< 1260272911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wc -l)
< 1260272912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, generated code that loads the fingerprint, lines like: int foo; or such)
< 1260272929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you have the advantage of not having to care as much about memory management
< 1260272935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to using a higher level language
< 1260272953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and you don't have 10 lines of includes at the top
< 1260273005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right: it has three imports, one of which is a workaround for a bug
< 1260273773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I had one.
< 1260273778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But it was rather incomplete.
< 1260273784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lost it?
< 1260273801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's still somewhere.
< 1260273819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.html
< 1260273819 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " echo stop killing me
< 1260273832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm not killing you.
< 1260273832 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but some of their income from copies of gnu software.
< 1260273858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The highlights are in the wrong place in that file, in fact.
< 1260273876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I had a separate highlight description file, and raw source code file, and apparently those have gotten out of sync.
< 1260273900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because I've added a few lines of initialization in there.
< 1260273927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the highlighting stops pretty early on in the file.
< 1260273938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, the colours had some sort of meaning too.
< 1260273966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes it looks all like light blue on his laptop screen unless he look at it from an extreme angle
< 1260273985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green blocks are the big high-level descriptions, red ones are error conditions/messages, blue and yellow... uh, mean something else. As does grey.
< 1260274010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, all grey ones are part of a single block called "Code-flow paths..."
< 1260274038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why is there a vertical row of dots there
< 1260274066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sort of highlight that's in the original source file.
< 1260274068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, near the end of the annotated area
< 1260274072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it mean?
< 1260274077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two columns right of it are reserved for code-flow.
< 1260274083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a marker that you're not supposed to write past it.
< 1260274093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shouldn't it go all the way up?
< 1260274099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why not update it?
< 1260274104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, in theory, but I think I got bored.
< 1260274114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: context?
< 1260274122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260274123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^
< 1260274124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1260274128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mistab
< 1260274131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow
< 1260274134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260274136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a mistab
< 1260274143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The highlights are generated from the http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot-hl.txt file automatically with some javascript.
< 1260274143 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so that's a scheme48 bug? :) htmlprag?
< 1260274145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your tab-complete set to me by default?
< 1260274145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a and f are close
< 1260274152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the first here in alphabetical order, so it's plausible
< 1260274162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I was looking at another screen in here while typing
< 1260274166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, not particularly close in QWERTY; do you use a substantially different layout?)
< 1260274176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no, tab alone just lists the names
< 1260274184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "same half"
< 1260274187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same row
< 1260274191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes qwerty
< 1260274191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't close
< 1260274200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, closer than a and o are?
< 1260274202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1260274251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is closer than a and o are
< 1260274254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's still not close
< 1260274265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a and d?
< 1260274289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far to typo, but close enough that it's not that much of a stretch for the finger
< 1260274293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit annoying, though
< 1260274303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like trying to press ' when your right hand's on hjkl for a vi-style control system
< 1260274336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, to do with the way hands work, g is effectively closer to j than a is to d or l is to '
< 1260274341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's the same physical distance
< 1260274350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and 4 is pretty close to d)
< 1260274372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you forgot that I was looking at a different screen when typing
< 1260274397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't tyoe quite correct when doing so, at least if I press enter before piof reading (like here)
< 1260274401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1260274410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didn't do too bad it seems
< 1260274413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I only use one screen
< 1260274427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some people are more productive with multiple screens as it helps stop them getting distracted
< 1260274431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ais523, and I was looking at another screen in here while typing
< 1260274432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm more productive with one screen for the same reason
< 1260274434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed that?
< 1260274440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't
< 1260274445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I even commented against it
< 1260274463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1260274471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about five lines ago
< 1260274474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of mine
< 1260274478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no that was the second time I mentioned it
< 1260274479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260274492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, and I was looking at another screen in here while typing != ais523, you forgot that I was looking at a different screen when typing
< 1260274519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ehird logread: I've started using xmonad again for some things; once I found out it supported multiple desktops, it fits my workflow much better, as I can ensure there's exactly two windows on a desktop when I want to tile two)
< 1260274527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and not just multiple screens, in fact they are two computers that are connected using synergy
< 1260274539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I was reading something on the other one while typing
< 1260274545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, multitasking
< 1260274574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you use virtual desktops?
< 1260274576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1260274579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought no one did
< 1260274588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I do
< 1260274595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, only one at the moment
< 1260274604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two is common when I'm working on a programming project (one for it, one for everything else)
< 1260274606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I always get annoyed when I have to switch between them
< 1260274619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xmonad, I more commonly use 6 or 7 or so because I don't have a taskbar
< 1260274628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for programming I just make sure to use a large enough monitor
< 1260274630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a different style of working
< 1260274651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I have considered getting another monitor
< 1260274661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus having a dual monitor setup + the laptop
< 1260274674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is switching desktops hard?
< 1260274680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control-alt-arrow
< 1260274686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually easier to press than alt-tab
< 1260274701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree
< 1260274714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and control-shift-alt-arrow moves the current window with you, although that's a bit harder to press than alt-tab)
< 1260274714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-tab requires two fingers from one hand
< 1260274721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, first and fourth
< 1260274724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260274729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no
< 1260274730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a stretch for the fourth
< 1260274734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, first and second
< 1260274738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which fingers do you use?
< 1260274741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1260274743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits just perfect
< 1260274748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you avoid spraining your wrist
< 1260274759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control-alt-arrow requires three fingers, and either from two hands or with a very inconvenient single hand
< 1260274765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, moving your index finger from f to tab is a very long way
< 1260274766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if I don't want to move sideways I just use first and forth
< 1260274789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I move all over the place for emacs anyway
< 1260274793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: two hands, but I don't have to move them very far
< 1260274795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so do I
< 1260274802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-tab isn't that inconvenient
< 1260274822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I don't actually use first and second
< 1260274828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noticed it fits perfect
< 1260274830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what do you use?
< 1260274839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first and third or first and fourth
< 1260274840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-tab doesn't necessarily require any hand movement at all
< 1260274841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works just fine
< 1260274845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260274853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrow keys are inconvenient unless you have a hand there already
< 1260274856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for far stretch, yes I need to curl up the finger a bit to not overshoot
< 1260274857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: agreed, but it does require a lot of finger movement
< 1260274871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm on a laptop, so the arrow keys are below return
< 1260274871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so no not a far stretch, rather I would like it further away
< 1260274877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than to the right and below
< 1260274877 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, in my opinion
< 1260274881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably makes a big difference
< 1260274889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I'm on a full sized keyboard
< 1260274891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often press alt-tab using my thumb and pinkie
< 1260274896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I said: big hands
< 1260274910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should take a photo of his hand on his keyboard
< 1260274911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1260274918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can find the camera without too much searching
< 1260274925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, a laptop keyboard makes things easier
< 1260274930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, nop
< 1260274933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a bit, in fact
< 1260274941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed. just checked on my thinkpad
< 1260274966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no one uses a laptop keyboard if he/she can avoid it
< 1260274977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do
< 1260274985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I use laptops so much, I'm used to this one
< 1260274990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktop keyboards tend to be a bit large for me now
< 1260275056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh. I find even a full sized keyboard cramped
< 1260276027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how tall are you?
< 1260276038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metric units please
< 1260276080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 6 feet; 1 foot is 12 inches, 1 metre is 39 inches, so that translates to about 1.85 metres
< 1260276088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only approximate, though, I haven't measured my height in a while
< 1260276097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. I'm 1.89
< 1260276103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you aren't too short
< 1260276114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet you said Alt-tab was a far stretch
< 1260276118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a laptop keyboard even
< 1260276125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from where my fingers normally are
< 1260276129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hands must be fairly small compared to the rest of your body
< 1260276135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that far in an absolute manner
< 1260276142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I compress my hand to do the reaching
< 1260276148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what about the fingers 1 and 5?
< 1260276151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a lot of movement from the normal locations of my hands
< 1260276152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work well
< 1260276155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be even more
< 1260276159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my little finger's normally over shift
< 1260276167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I actually use when I'm not thinking about it (just noticed)
< 1260276185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the position of my hand is such that I can move it down to control without moving my hand
< 1260276188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not up to caps lock
< 1260276191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would hate having my little finger curled up like that
< 1260276197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't curled up
< 1260276199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's straight
< 1260276207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very short finger?
< 1260276212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why I can't reach tab with it at all without moving my hand
< 1260276214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, very low hands
< 1260276215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you reach the top rows easily
< 1260276221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay
< 1260276222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle finger reaches them fine
< 1260276227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems irritating still
< 1260276234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have to stretch for escape or the F-keys, I hardly use them
< 1260276238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about typing q? or 1?
< 1260276239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emacs user, not vi user...)
< 1260276247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, everyone has to stretch for f-keys
< 1260276251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q is where my fourth finger naturally reaches
< 1260276252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the space
< 1260276259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 I press by moving my third finger to the left, it's longer
< 1260276260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between the normal keys
< 1260276262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f-keys
< 1260276265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no space on this keyboard between F1 and 1
< 1260276272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay laptop
< 1260276273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260276286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about reaching esc? On my laptop it is above F1
< 1260276293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to the left of F1 here, above `
< 1260276308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ` is a massive stretch with the third finger for me; for ESC I have to move my hand)
< 1260276315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that these are my normal typing hand positions
< 1260276321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for, say, playing roguelikes, they'd be different
< 1260276331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on my desktop F10 is above `, and on my laptop the space between F12 and Delete (+ part of Delete) is above `
< 1260276337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the left hand would be higher so it could hit control /and/ escape a lot; the right hand would be over hjkl
< 1260276350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ` is at the other end of your keyboard, then
< 1260276352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's above tab for me
< 1260276390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 78990+ "dead key for Ă©" "backspace
< 1260276410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the dead key for e when shifted turns into dead key for è and `
< 1260276418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for Ă©"
< 1260276421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1234567890-= backspace
< 1260276422 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260276423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me
< 1260276443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to type international characters I use alt-gr plus punctuation
< 1260276461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. alt-gr-; is dead key for acute
< 1260276485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, §1234
< 1260276503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when shifted: ½!"#¤%&/()=?`
< 1260276514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shifted: ¬!"£$%^&*()_+
< 1260276515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shift-backspace
< 1260276522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when altgr: ¶¡@£$€¥{[]}\±
< 1260276537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when alt-gr+shift: ¾¹²³¼¢⅝÷«»°¿¬
< 1260276554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|¹²³€½¾{[]}\ (dead key for cedilla) (alt-gr-backspace)
< 1260276562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-shift does the same as shift for me
< 1260276570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1260276588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also alt-gr backspace is silly
< 1260276595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I excluded that one
< 1260276600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it not being of interest
< 1260276613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it silly?
< 1260276621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows, it'd be mapped to control-alt-backspace and kill your X server
< 1260276626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has no special meaning?
< 1260276632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait what?
< 1260276632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Windows maps altgr to control-alt for some utterly unknown reason
< 1260276646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, on Windows you normally don't have an X server running
< 1260276650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it doesn't, because then stuff like @ wouldn't work
< 1260276662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you saying that Ctrl-Alt-2 on windows is @?
< 1260276664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do it with control-alt instead?
< 1260276669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / /
< 1260276683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, control-alt-4 is €, control-alt-e is é
< 1260276687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never tried and I don't have windows handy atm
< 1260276692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't be bothered booting the Windows system here to test
< 1260276700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, altgr-4 is $ here
< 1260276701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's on a UK keyboard)
< 1260276707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh
< 1260276709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for € you want altgr-e
< 1260276719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-shift-e is ¢
< 1260276721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is
< 1260276733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, altgr-3 is ÂŁ
< 1260276742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-3 here
< 1260276750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw @, ÂŁ and $ are marked on the keyboard
< 1260276752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ¢ is "cent", which is 1/100 of a dollar
< 1260276760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lower part of it
< 1260276760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US, and several other countries which have currencies called dollars
< 1260276767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are {[]}
< 1260276771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again in the lower part
< 1260276776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and \
< 1260276785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's the mingle operator in Princeton syntax for INTERCAL
< 1260276791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which if you're not American, is possibly more important
< 1260276795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but probably not)
< 1260276809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably not what?
< 1260276823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¢ being more important as an INTERCAL operator than as a currency
< 1260276874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouchm I think I have an electric chair. Static such. gave a small spark when touching a metal part
< 1260276886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/m//
< 1260276897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same importance for me
< 1260276914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not your chair, it's you
< 1260276919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you became statically charged
< 1260276926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shock when you touched metal was you discharging all at once
< 1260276940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you become charged due to walking around a lot on certain sorts of carpet
< 1260276947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in buildings with a certain architecture
< 1260276963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't notice on rainy days because you discharge slowly through humidity in the air
< 1260277011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260277050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can reproduce the effect with a bit of metal plus some isolation to hold it in after rolling the chair around on the floor a bit
< 1260277063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit of metal was placed on the wooden desk while doing this
< 1260277076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's your chair + the carpet that's doing it, then?
< 1260277086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no carpet. plastic flooring
< 1260277094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, plastic's known to cause the problem
< 1260277099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, certain types
< 1260277110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you should discharge yourself before working on electronics (e.g. the inside of computers)
< 1260277110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait no, it is actually linoleum in this room
< 1260277121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use a static wrist thingy
< 1260277122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260277126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of electricity that a human can feel when it discharges is a lot more than the amount needed to destroy a computer
< 1260277132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good, I use a static wrist thingy too
< 1260277141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I take off any fleece clothing
< 1260277147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably even more important
< 1260277174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes or no?
< 1260277182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be, yes
< 1260277182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleece gets static very easily
< 1260277187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleeces are made of plastic IIRC
< 1260277197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it keeps you wonderfully warm
< 1260277204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very important here in Sweden
< 1260277227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the linoleum though?
< 1260277234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't cause static should it
< 1260277258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interaction of two things that causes static
< 1260277264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw as far as I can tell the static metal part is isolated by plastic from the wheels, Well the wheels are plastic *shrug*.
< 1260277269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. rubber soles of shoes and whatever carpets are made of
< 1260277291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plastic wheels + linoleum floor might be a combination that charges up
< 1260277305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's a general rule to determine which combinations charge, and which don't
< 1260277312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, current shoes are made of sheep skin with the woolly(sp?) bit turned inside for warmth
< 1260277335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the material of the shoes generally that matters
< 1260277338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the material of the soles
< 1260277346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static charging's caused by friction
< 1260277352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which materials are involved in the frictioning
< 1260277359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. unknown type of rubber like plastic I'd say
< 1260277376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly stiff since it is the only think that provides stiffness to this chair
< 1260277391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I was rolling around by holding on to the wooden table
< 1260277414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then propelling myself around by
< 1260277431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/table/desk/
< 1260277477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know how you keep asking about garbage collection for windows? I think I've realised how I do it
< 1260277489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get into the habit of switching windows by alt-tabbing at random, and if I hit one I'm not using, I just close it
< 1260277518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, saving stuff in it?
< 1260277525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also how many windows do you have?
< 1260277531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 at the moment
< 1260277535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three to four generally
< 1260277538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing whatever's appropriate to close it, which may involve saving first
< 1260277542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe 5
< 1260277545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two permanent:
< 1260277547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I have IRC, email, web browser
< 1260277549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal and editor
< 1260277549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole and irc client
< 1260277559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first three are for general Internet interaction; the last two are my work
< 1260277567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, job
< 1260277603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, terminal is for everything
< 1260277626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm saying what the terminal has atm
< 1260277630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has three tabs open
< 1260277636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for work, the other two browsing NetHack's source code
< 1260277646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for email, did I ever mention I only recently switched from pine?
< 1260277656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1260277658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't know that
< 1260277667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you using now? mail(1)?
< 1260277672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, alpine
< 1260277673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260277679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Evolution
< 1260277682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like pine, only more maintained
< 1260277690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly to annoy people who don't like Evolution, but mostly because I like the way its UI works
< 1260277691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used thunderbrid at times.
< 1260277695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderbird annoys me
< 1260277702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, less so than evolution
< 1260277706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just slightly too obnoxious
< 1260277712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, evolution yes
< 1260277722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, evolution reminds me of outlook
< 1260277725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things you can click on by mistake, mail notifications that say the text of the email onscreen so you have to turn them off, et
< 1260277727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc
< 1260277744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Evolution does similar things to outlook
< 1260277750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I don't like that
< 1260277752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least the UI mostly doesn't get in the way
< 1260277773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Outlook's UI is pretty bad, with lots of top-of-page popups telling you all sorts of things you didn't care about)
< 1260277782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and evolution fails to sync against anything but palm units
< 1260277796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mobile phone over bluetooth? Just forget it
< 1260277797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it syncs against IMAP and POP3 just fine
< 1260277805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a mobile, so I don't care about syncing with those
< 1260277808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant: embedded devices
< 1260277811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for calender and such
< 1260277821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only landline?
< 1260277834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family has a landline, I use that on occasion
< 1260277837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sometimes use payphones
< 1260277853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you live at home? I somehow thought you didn't
< 1260277863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with not having internet
< 1260277870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/at home/at parents/
< 1260277888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I live with my parents; that house doesn't have Internet
< 1260277889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want it there
< 1260277897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1260277901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't want it?
< 1260278137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw is Wolfram american?
< 1260278153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's technically British but has lived in the US most of his life
< 1260278157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia probably has more details
< 1260278169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mathematica used "color" somewhere I'm sure
< 1260278182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, even I often write in US English when programming
< 1260278186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm Britihs
< 1260278189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*British
< 1260278191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else uses it
< 1260278201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so writing "colour" probably wouldn't be compatible with libraries
< 1260278208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would annoy Americans using my programs
< 1260278318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libalut.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
< 1260278319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260278321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange
< 1260278323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why
< 1260278354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh found it
< 1260278359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 vs. 64
< 1260278611 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260278730 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going study. exam in 2hrs"
< 1260279162 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279162 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279464 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:27:21] eek
< 1260279469 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the logs, of course
< 1260279475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1260279476 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's such an important expression
< 1260279512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very cyclic reference, that
< 1260279516 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * clog has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
< 1260279516 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eek
< 1260279516 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * clog (n=nef@bespin.org) has joined #esoteric
< 1260279521 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense without context
< 1260279569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nothing does, really
< 1260279673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does.
< 1260279698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ha, it is a lie.)
< 1260279733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot be a lie, it isn't a cake
< 1260279772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it does follow that if all cakes are a lie, then all lies are a cake.
< 1260279777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That might also be a lie.)
< 1260279797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats fizzie's lie. tastes of cinnamon.
< 1260279822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, incidentally, we had a fancy cake: http://zem.fi/g2/d/8450-2/p1040206.jpg
< 1260279872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Me and my wife both graduated this autumn -- I'm sure I've mentioned at least the case of myself -- and we felt somehow obligated to arrange something quasi-fancy mostly for the relatives.)
< 1260279885 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260279885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260279885 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260279886 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260279886 0 :Guest84808!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260279916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those flowers and stuff marsipan?
< 1260279926 0 :Guest84808!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279926 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279926 0 :lifthrasiir!i=vAO7W2tp@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279926 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279926 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260279936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly, but they are some sort of mostly sugar-based edible building material.
< 1260279955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*z
< 1260279972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically edible. There were also few bits of metal wire in the longer sections of leaves to provide some structural integrity, so you had to be a bit careful there.
< 1260280007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're _married_? is that legal in this channel?
< 1260280040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sure there must be some other instances of that class here too. I mean, statistically speaking. In a group of this many people.
< 1260280051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*geeks
< 1260280090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, does it still count if my wife is a programmer (well, "software engineer") by vocation?
< 1260280105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that geeks don't marry, i know a couple who met through the local roleplaying club. still go alternate weeks while the other babysits, afaik
< 1260280185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to some ancient HR/payroll software system field width restrictions, her salary receipts say "SOFTWARE ENGINE"; I think that's hilarious.
< 1260280197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260280343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you speak of human resources, software engines seem but a small step
< 1260281101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260281120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago
< 1260281196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, incidentally, we had a fancy cake: http://zem.fi/g2/d/8450-2/p1040206.jpg <-- does the shape have any meaning
< 1260281203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me which theme it was?
< 1260281208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hours ago too
< 1260281211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mythbusters/martians
< 1260281228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a hint of steve&terry
< 1260281275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION found the punchline to d&d pretty funny
< 1260281288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah it was
< 1260281296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really, no. We did think a bit of using the traditional headgear of the university students (there's a very specific type of hat) as the cake motif, but decided it would be too tacky.
< 1260281312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same hat as in Sweden?
< 1260281319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that isn't for university
< 1260281324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1260281328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for starting at university iirc
< 1260281358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading 500 mb at 300 K/s is painfully slow
< 1260281367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you want to get it done quickly
< 1260281368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, I don't know about your hats; here the "university of technology" students get the hat at the end of their first study year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TFteknolog.jpg
< 1260281392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Finland and Sweden students of technology wear a special kind of cap. It is similar to the cap given to all high-school graduates in both countries, but features a tuft and different kind of cockade showing what university the bearer is attending. "
< 1260281411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your hat looks like you our plus a lot of extra stuff
< 1260281415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260281417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1260281425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh I had no clue about this
< 1260281435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful to know I guess
< 1260281454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no specific graduation hat from university here. And putting a Ph.D. doctoral hat there might have been a bit premature. :p
< 1260281471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I know about that, and it happens later yes
< 1260281477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do professors get I wonder
< 1260281495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pink tiara. (Okay, not really, but they should.)
< 1260281500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260281540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one of our professors: the man with the crown: http://media.tkk.fi/en/xmas-party-2009/pics-olli-makinen/content/DSC_5926_large.html
< 1260281558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is not standard clothes I think
< 1260281561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell was that
< 1260281564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the combined CS-and-related-departments christmas party, so, no.
< 1260281578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lots of alcohol?
< 1260281584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260281590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is that figure on the t-shirt?
< 1260281593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That performance was the traditional: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Boys%27_Singing_Procession
< 1260281600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a maoist king
< 1260281641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah I was suspecting something like that but I just couldn't believe my eyes
< 1260281655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Finnish version contains non-biblical elements such as king Herod vanquishing the "king of the Moors", and a short song of praise to tsar Alexander." The black man is the king of the Moors, I think.
< 1260281656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what's up with the guy next to him
< 1260281700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I remember Herod (our professor) vanquishing him. Note the toy light saber; it had lights when activated, and made the proper noise.
< 1260281734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was indeed a rather drink-rich party, or so I hear: http://media.tkk.fi/en/xmas-party-2009/pics-olli-makinen/content/DSC_5978_large.html
< 1260281759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I slipped out after the dinner part, we had to prepare for that cake-party of ours, which was the very next day.)
< 1260281814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may also take a look at a short summary from the lecture slides given at the beginning of the occasion: http://media.tkk.fi/en/xmas-party-2009/pics-jukka-patynen/content/20091127_1MG_1637_large.html
< 1260281815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many people
< 1260281817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those boxes
< 1260281833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather many, I think. Over one hundred, probably less than three.
< 1260281860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the copy machine thing about?
< 1260281882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait so you say in the interval (100,3)?
< 1260281883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The traditional office christmas party "meme" is to take copies of your... uh, nether regions, with the office copy machine.
< 1260281895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(100, 300). I abbreviated a bit.
< 1260282401 0 :Guest84808!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260282606 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260282692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260283060 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260283095 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260283275 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260283313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260283313 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260283314 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260283314 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260283530 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260283530 0 :lifthrasiir!i=vAO7W2tp@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260283530 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260284489 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260284760 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260285066 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260285094 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260285277 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260285455 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260286757 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260286935 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260287750 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436099.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260287876 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260288201 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260288348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260288777 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260288811 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260290966 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291528 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291569 0 :Aszstal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291854 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-15.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291860 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260291903 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291921 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260291921 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-15.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260291927 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260292570 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260292589 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260292818 0 :`Fuco`OFF!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260293088 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260293888 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260293900 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260294260 0 :Aszstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1260294338 0 :`Fuco`OFF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260295105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260295412 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260295626 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260295786 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260296802 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260296856 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260296990 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260297335 0 :mu!n=mu@wsip-68-15-175-22.no.no.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260297341 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260298103 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260298258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260300234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://appfrica.net/blog/2009/12/08/evidence-of-language-discovered-in-monkeys/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=evidence-of-language-discovered-in-monkeys Would a linguist please stand up and comment, kthx?
< 1260300798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook. Ook ook.
< 1260300887 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1260300947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, it seems not to be turing complete
< 1260301104 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260301286 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook!
< 1260301354 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: looking.
< 1260301374 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a friend who's a linguistics grad student; I know this stuff!)
< 1260301431 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436099.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260301455 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure he's right about what "recursion" means. I would expect him to, seeing that he's a software engineer.
< 1260301702 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260302045 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260302302 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260302482 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260302910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260303971 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260306136 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260306256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260306744 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260306750 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260308107 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260311223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260312304 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: monkeys do not have language.
< 1260312332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person writing the article doesnt even know what hes talking about
< 1260312410 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: monkey "languge"? because not even human language is turing complete.
< 1260312411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you're here, or anything, but.
< 1260313204 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur"
< 1260313483 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems obvious that monkeys communicate. This report indicates that this one monkey language seems to have a suffix.
< 1260313499 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :communication is not language, however.
< 1260313508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is language?
< 1260313520 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in the sense that human language is language.
< 1260313531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we construe the meaning of language broadly enough, then almost anything is language
< 1260313536 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reduces to communication
< 1260313544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, it might even reduce to semiotics
< 1260313552 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1260313566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but language, that is, the kind humans use, is a very different sort of beast
< 1260313614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly it employs a wealth of combinatorics to produce expressions
< 1260313637 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, it has a rather extensive, (mostly) arbitrary symbolic representational system
< 1260313649 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260313671 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These monkeys don't have that at all; they have about five morphemes.
< 1260313684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they dont even have morphemes, right
< 1260313704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because morphemes are particular units that encode meaning bundles of some sort
< 1260313711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monkeys dont even have that
< 1260313742 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have calls that induce other behavior in other monkeys, but they're not encoding symbolic meaning
< 1260313780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a monkey gives off a "snake" call or an "eagle" call, its a trigger that induces other monkeys to look for the snake or eagle and then recapitulate the call or ignore it
< 1260313791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the recapitulation induces avoidance behavior in the troop
< 1260313809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the call does not induce monkeys to sit around pondering the nature of snakes, etc.
< 1260313866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably COULDNT even do that; it not meaningful, its purely instinctual.
< 1260313890 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260313895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its unlikely that monkeys have anything remotely like a thought "oh there's an eagle" when they hear the call
< 1260313901 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just go into a reactive mode of being
< 1260313931 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether his goal of teaching language to animals is doomed.
< 1260313936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.
< 1260313937 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It totally is, ain't it.)
< 1260313941 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260313941 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1260313952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :animals, not even CHIMPS, have a chance of learning language.
< 1260313956 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders teaching language to the Piraha instead.
< 1260313957 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260313963 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already have language
< 1260313971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dan everett is just an idiot.
< 1260314189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a paper i can send you a copy of
< 1260314200 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that talks about the supposed exceptionality of piraha
< 1260314209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really not that exceptional.
< 1260314225 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats actually the name of it, too, right
< 1260314227 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"piraha exceptionality"
< 1260314239 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://faculty.virginia.edu/linganth/Docs/Everett-Nevins-etal.Piraha-Exceptionality.pdf
< 1260314241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go
< 1260314291 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course they have language.
< 1260314302 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being... offensive or something.
< 1260314319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1260314413 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1260315591 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260316117 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260316411 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260316942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I was wondering about your opinions on the topic, and if you could read past the somewhat stupid article and tell me whether or not it had any... Useful meaning.
< 1260316946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, thanks.
< 1260316964 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesnt.
< 1260316981 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human language is far more complex than just any silly little thing that shows that monkeys have "prefixes"
< 1260316986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if this is surprising to begin with
< 1260316992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1260317005 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##philosophy is discussing language as well, and their discussion is even more inane
< 1260317067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse it is
< 1260317077 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not by much :)
< 1260317080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophers are often completely ignorant of linguistics in any real sense.
< 1260317099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the people there are philosophers, i think they're just trolls
< 1260317186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260317187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so
< 1260317188 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260317719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Someone claimed that the Piraha don't have a language?!
< 1260317788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't *mean* to!
< 1260317802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1260318230 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260318983 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I heard Piraha don't have a language..
< 1260319085 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Piraha don't have a language? Interesting; I'll make note of that.
< 1260319309 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a language, so I have to speak English instead
< 1260319767 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÂżNo tienes una lengua? Yo pensaba que hablabas... I dunno.
< 1260319799 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish or Spanish o algo.
< 1260320061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es que no tengo mi propia idioma, solo hablo los de los demás
< 1260320217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wenas
< 1260320239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260320380 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tampoco yo tengo mi propia idioma; inventar una idioma es difĂcil y otros no me comprenderĂan.
< 1260320465 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A menos que se basa en griego o algo.
< 1260320531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Que siempre he querido hacer, inventar una idioma basado en griego.)
< 1260320549 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PodrĂa llamarla "griego".)
< 1260320923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Mi pensas ke vi bezonas studadi Esperanton.
< 1260320944 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260320970 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if I knew how to ask how to say stuff in Esperanto in Esperanto.
< 1260321083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La vorto "foo" en Esperanto estas kion?
< 1260321100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... I think; my Esperanto isn't *that* good.)
< 1260321115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also to ask the meaning of an Esperanto thing.
< 1260321124 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s// how/
< 1260321293 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260321311 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be 'La vorto "bezoni" en anglo estas kion?'
< 1260321333 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure it would be fine to say 'Kion estas la vorto . . .'
< 1260321344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260321373 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260321375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And answering your question, "should" or "ought to".
< 1260321424 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says it's "needs to".
< 1260321456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260321462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right. 'Tis late.
< 1260321523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how the letter V is pronounced.
< 1260321549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like F, but you put your top teeth on top of your bottom lip while you say it
< 1260321556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you end up with a buzzier sound as a result
< 1260321566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you let your throat resonate
< 1260321570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so V has a pitch whereas F doesn't
< 1260321627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's pronounced like a V, in other words.
< 1260321652 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know.
< 1260321859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was explaining in English
< 1260321862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Esperanto
< 1260321882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just assumed you'd forgotten how to pronounce it, it's not like it's used all this often
< 1260321895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor like it's the sort of thing that the sort of people who typically hang out here would particularly need to remember
< 1260321911 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had feared that.
< 1260321949 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you pronounce your Fs bilabially?
< 1260321970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too early in the morning to remember what "bilabially" means
< 1260322020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a manner involving both lips.
< 1260322072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so
< 1260322092 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesante.
< 1260322113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, then, it would be very hard to pronounce anything non-bilabially without removing one of the lips, because they always affect how the sound radiates out.
< 1260322130 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but only minorly.
< 1260322217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vocal synthesizers still tend to have a lip radiation model. (Of course my viewpoint is the speech recognition one, not the linguistic one.)
< 1260322236 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260322291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's roughly the same phoneme in Esperanto.
< 1260322377 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says Wikipedia: "Mia kontribuo estas modesta sed mia subteno estas sincera."
< 1260322440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says another Wikipedia: "Mi cantidad es pequeña pero mi apoyo es sincero."
< 1260322487 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says another: "My amount is little, but my support is sincere."
< 1260322520 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a coincidence that three different donors with the same name should donate the same amount on the same date with messages that are word-for-word translations of each other.
< 1260322598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same person, presumably they just translated the messages
< 1260322618 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the original was.
< 1260322631 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy's name is Yizhao Lang, so probably English. >.>
< 1260322631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the donation form asks for messages in all the Wikipedia languages? To keep the less clever donators out.
< 1260325302 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260326518 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260328014 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260329776 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260329870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: monkey "languge"? because not even human language is turing complete.
< 1260329875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHOOSH*
< 1260330062 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you don't understand his complicated linguistic babbles, you could just ask.
< 1260330077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oklofok -----###
< 1260330105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was i helpless?
< 1260330119 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to talk about human language in that way?
< 1260330122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misread the *WHOOSH* target
< 1260330129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean helpless people are the ones you want to swat
< 1260330148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_clue_less, oklofok, clueless
< 1260330160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and willfully malignant
< 1260330173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my will is full of malignant stuff
< 1260330203 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even worse puns than usual day
< 1260330261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wilfully
< 1260330286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, i don't have a printer, can someone print these papers for me, scan them, and email them to me?
< 1260330287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait it's a US/british thing
< 1260330325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have a print to file option?
< 1260330338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so willful would in fact only mean what i interpreted it as, in us english?
< 1260330367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse. if it is even that simple
< 1260330405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those us/british spelling differences aren't always as clearcut as the dictionaries would seem to imply
< 1260330412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this is stupid
< 1260330413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think
< 1260330421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no way to open a 1 GB uncompressed tar file on Windows?
< 1260330430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without installing software?
< 1260330445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write one - in feather, naturally
< 1260330463 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: printing to file doesn't help, i need the stuff on paper
< 1260330464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, given that there isn't, why would anyone distribute Windows software in that form?
< 1260330507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to get the thing in one file?
< 1260330515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have used .zip, though
< 1260330520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, anything Windows actually handles
< 1260330527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows opens .zip?
< 1260330544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260330547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it just had some sort of compressed folder thing of its own
< 1260330547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays
< 1260330549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not know?
< 1260330555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i know
< 1260330561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you used Windows
< 1260330562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably won't know tomorrow either
< 1260330565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sure
< 1260330567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I muddling you with someone else?
< 1260330567 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time
< 1260330597 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not interested in how specific programs work
< 1260330601 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including oses
< 1260330627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the details feel theoretically interesting to me
< 1260330649 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i recall compressing a folder once
< 1260330659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"new compressed folder" just creates a zip file
< 1260330668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nowadays" is a bit stretching it, given that (source: Wikipedia) Windows has included zip file support (under the "compressed folders" terminology) since 1998.
< 1260330670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now is 2009.
< 1260330691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very many versions of Windows, though
< 1260330705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win98 is what i know most about, probably
< 1260330707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98, ME, XP, 2003, Vista, 7.
< 1260330740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and 2000.
< 1260330749 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a windows 2003?
< 1260330759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more of a server thing, I think.
< 1260330794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Server 2003 is the official name. But it's still arguably a version of Windows.
< 1260330811 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that actually does sort of ring a bell
< 1260330828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird, i'm not a serverologist
< 1260330863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there sort-of between XP and Vista. The internal version numbers are 5.2.something.
< 1260330897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xp and vista are both 5.2.something?
< 1260330905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vista's 6.0, Win7's 6.1
< 1260330914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP is 5.1.something, as far as I know; and Vista's 6.x.
< 1260330921 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay right
< 1260330924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I remember that precisely /because/ it's so ludicrous)
< 1260330936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit bizarre that 7 is not 7 when it easily could've been.
< 1260330945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would've been kinda weird if they'd had the same whole number for vista and xp
< 1260330954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err whole number isn't a very good term for that is it
< 1260330960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the reason is to support broken programs that check the version number with == rather than >=
< 1260330961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd O_<
< 1260331036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the whole point just the pun?
< 1260331046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1260331066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*puns
< 1260331166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is the watch thing?
< 1260331182 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna break that down for me, i don't think it quite works
< 1260331229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Film the one: "The Core is a 2003 science fiction disaster film -- concerns a team that has to drill to the center of the Earth and set off a series of nuclear explosions in order to restart the rotation of Earth's core." Film the other: "Sunshine is a 2007 British science fiction film -- with the Earth in peril from the dying Sun, the crew is sent to reignite the Sun with a massive stellar bomb, a nuclear device with the equivalent mass of Manhattan Island."
< 1260331233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When in doubt, blow it up.
< 1260331300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I never noticed that my home dir was the same on the Windows and Linux systems here
< 1260331327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a film about prevent the sun from blowing up, or something
< 1260331345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait you said that
< 1260331394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what sunshine has to do with this
< 1260331407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: also the subtitle pun
< 1260331411 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a proof for these jokes, annoying trying to reverse-engineer them
< 1260331423 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260331427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hovertext but i don't think that's different from the main one
< 1260331466 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which jokes?
< 1260331484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunshine is the film the xkcd description most reminds me of. Though maybe that's only because I've seen it and not seen that The Core film.
< 1260331527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the hovertext "happening on my watch" works (barely imo), in the actual comic i don't think the watch thing works at all
< 1260331531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it even tries to
< 1260331536 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: newest xkcd
< 1260331549 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to need some instructions for this stuff
< 1260331551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you need to reread it i guess
< 1260331571 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260331574 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1260331589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean everyone
< 1260331605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you cannot get it before the end pun is revealed
< 1260331660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that message into the phone is a bit amusing
< 1260331708 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is that guy is *for* daylight saving, is his point he wants to get to use the daylight saving feature on his watch?
< 1260331768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phone message is a side joke referring to the fact movie people are pretty, afaiu, if it's a joke about the sun being hot, i don't understand it at all.
< 1260331791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic (MWAHAHA)
< 1260331855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how reluctant people are to explain jokes properly, don't you want me to share the good laugh! :\
< 1260331863 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm i'll read
< 1260331867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1260331871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TRAP
< 1260331884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you read the MWAHAHA
< 1260331917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: puns don't work if you don't mostly get them yourselves?
< 1260331929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f
< 1260331937 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they do
< 1260331961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a rhetorical question, you're not supposed to question it!
< 1260332009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to ask if there was a specific pun in that, but maybe i'll leave the subject of me being dense for now ;)
< 1260332101 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess i finally understand how tvtropes can be addictive
< 1260332119 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the random articles i've tried to get hooked on didn't have enough terms
< 1260332136 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terms need to be checked of course
< 1260332149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's this tomato surprise now?"
< 1260332225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you again on monday, then
< 1260332338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just read these two
< 1260332359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you one of those people who can eat just one peanut, or something?
< 1260332398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally not
< 1260332476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. i was beginning to question your humanity, there
< 1260332860 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260333823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why question that which you know does not exist?
< 1260333929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must not have got the memo
< 1260334215 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260334323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a tvtrope about characters never fucking telling someone "i'll explain this later" when someone starts asking something, but they really need to do something
< 1260334340 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens in pretty much everything i watch, i'm like "tell him to fucking ask you tomorrow"
< 1260334350 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no
< 1260334355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot recall
< 1260334448 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except in rare cases, doesn't always work, although that never seems very plausible, sure people can say something like "you always say that", but, well, if that's true, then maybe the characters should've been less crappy friends in the past.
< 1260334465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be *except in rare cases;
< 1260334496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "no seriously this is life or death, i'll explain this tomorrow at 12:00"
< 1260334508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots
< 1260334580 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i mean that would definitely work, not sure it was clear.
< 1260335893 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay took almost an hour of my time
< 1260335897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm impressed
< 1260335931 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260335943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260335944 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia surfing is much more dangerous though
< 1260335979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me
< 1260335989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just because you already know everyhing
< 1260335992 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything
< 1260336018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly because you don't want to know everything... well might be a bit of a stretch
< 1260336025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, have to go clean dog vomit ->
< 1260336260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Or both!"
< 1260336781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both.
< 1260336899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you cleaned dog vomit or both? What's the other thing?
< 1260337009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there were 4 puddles of vomit
< 1260337201 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260338934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)
< 1260338960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260339568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most situations, holding someone's eyelids open, then shining bright lights into their eyes, then asking them lots of questions
< 1260339579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be considered a torture, or at least a really nasty interrogation
< 1260339585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are opticians allowed to get away with it?
< 1260339642 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard similar arguments about dentists
< 1260339650 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mob
< 1260339768 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260339984 0 :lifthrasiir!i=VSQ3CL8A@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260340127 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260340927 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-111-204.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260340935 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260342039 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Roger Penrose is the king of bullshit. He's got a fucking PhD in bullshit (and mathematics). However, since he actually understands quantum mechanics, he had to find another rug to sweep the details under: quantum gravity."
< 1260342323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you agree, because you don't, or other?
< 1260342573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that dude
< 1260342577 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260343137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what dude?
< 1260343224 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quantum computers are not known to be able to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time."
< 1260343650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260343657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem quite true from what I remember
< 1260343667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260344696 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260345085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode."
< 1260345161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That statement needs clarification.
< 1260345173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum computers are not known to be able to solve /all/ NP-complete problems in polynomial time.
< 1260345184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are NP-complete problems which are solvable in polynomial time by quantum computers.
< 1260345237 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC)
< 1260345327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh.
< 1260345339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the definition of np-completeness?
< 1260345375 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can't quantum computers do polynomial time reductions in polynomial time
< 1260345378 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's NP-complete if it's in NP and it's NP-hard. It's NP-hard if all problems in NP can be reduced to it.
< 1260345382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hahah.
< 1260345397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I say the definition, clearly it's stupid to think that some NP-complete problems are and some aren't X-D
< 1260345400 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think that one through :P
< 1260345415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, certainly some NP problems are solvable in polynomial time on a quantum computer.
< 1260345420 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah remembering stuff is dangerous
< 1260345428 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like doing nothing :P
< 1260345450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fleh, some NP-P problems.
< 1260345497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find a reason to laugh at that, so it's probably true.
< 1260345515 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone finds a quantum algorithm to do NP-hard problems then did they prove P=NP?
< 1260345526 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a P algorithm
< 1260345541 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they find an quantum algorithm to solve NP problems in P
< 1260345551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260345557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well can polynomial time runs on a quantum computer be simulated by polynomial runs on a tm?
< 1260345558 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1260345564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just prove that quantum computers are more powerful than they thought.
< 1260345575 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more powerful than a turing machine?
< 1260345577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: No.
< 1260345583 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: Yes.
< 1260345587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1260345590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not more powerful per se
< 1260345596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they can, then that would prove P=NP, because you'd have an algorithm to solve the problem in polynomial time, just simulate the quantum algo.
< 1260345596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But able to compute more in less time.
< 1260345599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260345600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260345617 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone seems to think P <> NP, then the reasonable assumption is that quantum computers are stronger than normal computers?
< 1260345617 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the question was mostly socratic method, i think
< 1260345643 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: my questions? They were not socratic I was genuinely asking
< 1260345647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: In the sense that they can compute things in lower time bound, not in that they can compute more overall.
< 1260345657 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: no i mean my question about the polynomial runs
< 1260345667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T.M.s are still valuable as a representation of all that can be computed, Q.C.s can just compute it faster.
< 1260345670 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor answered it, i was sort of trying to make you answer your own question
< 1260345687 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were asking him...
< 1260345688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST ANSWER ALL.
< 1260345695 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260345742 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it can only compute the same things.. it's still stronger than a turing machine though?
< 1260345746 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: afaiu the quantum computing model is somewhere between determinism and nondeterminism, i haven't seen a formal definition for that stuff, and sadly i don't understand anything but that.
< 1260345752 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's still a TM complexity class isn't it.....
< 1260345755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that isn't formal
< 1260345777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not more powerful, it's just faster. At least by the definition of computational power I'm used to.
< 1260345827 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260345845 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you make a random number generator on a quantum computer?
< 1260345855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it's just as strong in the turing reduction sense, less strong using other reductions, like a polynomial time reduction, at least nondeterministic tm's
< 1260345888 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im consfued..
< 1260345901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's an interesting point ... kinda. Quantum computers may be able to produce truly random numbers, which could arguably make them more powerful than a T.M. since the problem "produce a completely-random number" can be run on them but not a T.M.
< 1260345905 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260345917 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Fuco
< 1260345930 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still confused about the P vs NP thing
< 1260345952 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can only compute tthe same set as the turing machine... but it can do it faster: Without proving P=NP
< 1260345958 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems almost like a paradox
< 1260345994 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np doesn't mean you do things faster
< 1260346009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you do them in polynomial time in a different model of computation
< 1260346026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, nondeterministic Turing machines.
< 1260346050 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know the actual algorithms you can write are the exact same, but in the known reductions, nondeterministic algorithms just map to deterministic algorithms that take a fuckload of time.
< 1260346067 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I getting mixed up between computational models and complexity classes?
< 1260346081 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are different things right?
< 1260346090 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260346118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually we define complexity classes as classes of languages that have some properties
< 1260346128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these properties can involve different computation models
< 1260346160 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's quantum complexity classes
< 1260346161 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the property defining P is "the problem of whether w \in L can be solved in polynomial time with a deterministic turing machine"
< 1260346175 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they exist? I mean aren't the nomal complexity classes good enough?
< 1260346208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the quantum complexity classes are not equal to any known complexity class, but they are studied, why not give them a name?
< 1260346224 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why aren't they equal to the other classes
< 1260346232 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a new model of computation lead to new complexity classes
< 1260346263 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason that it's not necessarily true that P = NP
< 1260346264 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just to give a more fine grained characterization so that we can observe the difference in 'speed' like that
< 1260346271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we define the steps the machine can take differently
< 1260346276 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between quantum computers and turing machine)
< 1260346291 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so differently, that a polynomial amount of steps in the other can't necessarily be translated into a polynomial amount of steps in the other
< 1260346318 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could say that
< 1260346323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speed thing
< 1260346437 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's probabilistic machines, which afaik give us completely separate classes again
< 1260346464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346464 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346464 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346464 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346465 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346465 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346466 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346466 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346468 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346468 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346468 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346468 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260346495 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know much complexity theory, it's fascinating, but we don't have courses about it atm, and i don't really have much time for anything outside courses and irc
< 1260346495 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by atm i mean ever.
< 1260346502 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's just a language why are the different
< 1260346521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a prof did tell me today he might give a course in recursion theory if i managed to recruit more people interested in it
< 1260346532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it's a class of languages
< 1260346543 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specific machine recognizes some language
< 1260346555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we define a class of them by taking all possible machines and seeing what they can do
< 1260346582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually given some restriction, like finite termination, termination on positive instances, termination in polynomial time...
< 1260346605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and by class i just mean a set
< 1260346606 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :termination in polynomial time????
< 1260346645 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346645 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346647 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :termination in polynomial time. that's how P is defined, there's some polynomial that bounds the computation steps for an input of size n
< 1260346686 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346686 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346686 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346686 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260346763 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is defined as the set of all such languages L that there is some machine M that recognizes exactly L, and there's a polynomial p such that the machine M always halts in p(|w|) steps or less
< 1260346766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1260346785 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does machine have a definition?
< 1260346791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the polynomial can be specific to the machine M
< 1260346803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we define it as a deterministic turing machine in the case of P
< 1260346816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of NP, we take the exact same definition, but use nondeterministic turing machines
< 1260346832 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure what it's supposed to do with negative instances
< 1260346846 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said i don't know any complexity theory
< 1260346857 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1260346863 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might define say QP
< 1260346876 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which replaces the turing machine with a quantum machine
< 1260346878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case it must recognize exactly the correct instances, and if the instance is positive, then it must halt in polynomial time.
< 1260346883 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1260346884 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260346896 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question P = NP or QP = NP don't make sense.....
< 1260346904 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's for different machines how can you compare
< 1260346919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probabilistic P, where you also have some sort of details about probabilities with which it succeeds
< 1260346927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P = NP makes sense, these are just sets of languages
< 1260346964 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p contains stuff like {{"a", "b"}, a*b*c*, {"a", "aa", "aaa", ...}, ...}
< 1260346971 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np also contains some languages
< 1260346977 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just ask whether they contain the same languages
< 1260346991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where a*b*c* is a regexp defining a language)
< 1260347010 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of a language? A set of strings?
< 1260347012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity classes are sets of languages which are sets of words which are sequences of characters
< 1260347013 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite?
< 1260347016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1260347028 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then I suppose the questions make sense
< 1260347033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1260347040 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words must be finite, languages and classes can be infinite
< 1260347058 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact a language is considered trivial if it's finite.
< 1260347091 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260347115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this laptop is getting more and more broken
< 1260347121 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-61.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260347130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the screen frame has got deformed somehow, and the screen doesn't shut as a result
< 1260347153 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there a proof that NP <> QP?
< 1260347163 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I invented QP or if that's a real one...
< 1260347249 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QMAM: Quantum Merlin-Arthur-Merlin Public-Coin Interactive Proofs
< 1260347269 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the answer, but i think NP is a superset of QP, and QP is a superset of P, in which case we couldn't know, because then we'd also know P!=NP
< 1260347318 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you prove P = QP and QP <> NP, or P <> QP and QP = NP, then you'd have solved the NP thing
< 1260347358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, assuming the chain of inclusion
< 1260347367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just basic set theory
< 1260347391 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just sets of languages, remember
< 1260347408 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" QNC: Quantum NC
< 1260347408 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The class of decision problems solvable by polylogarithmic-depth quantum circuits with bounded probability of error. (A uniformity condition may also be imposed.) "
< 1260347428 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting a lot of the quantum stuff incorperates error bounds
< 1260347442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand that
< 1260347444 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what we really want is hooking up quantum computers with normal ones -- so we can check the outupts
< 1260347466 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many things to learn, so little time... oh wait, i have tons of time left
< 1260347497 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BQP: Bounded-Error Quantum Polynomial-Time
< 1260347504 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo:B#bqp
< 1260347512 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BQP^BQP = BQP
< 1260347516 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can use subroutines
< 1260347520 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1260347533 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, for a class C, C^C = C means you can use subroutines?
< 1260347567 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arthur is a BQP (i.e. quantum) verifier who can exchange quantum messages with Merlin. So Arthur and Merlin's states may become entangled during the course of the protocol.
< 1260347568 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260347569 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually A^B means you have an oracle that solves B in, say, one step, and you solve A given that oracle
< 1260347684 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like P^NP = NP, in P^NP you can solve any problem in NP in one step, but a nondeterminitic turing machine can already do that.
< 1260347697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NP^NP = NP
< 1260347703 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1260347704 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, at least, might be talking out of my ass, in which case i hope someone corrects this.
< 1260347705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260347712 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in fact i don't think that's true...
< 1260347720 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks
< 1260347866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eerr, hehe...
< 1260347876 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an open question whether P^NP = NP
< 1260347891 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437597.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260347939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP \subset P^NP anyway... :)
< 1260347994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260348009 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fucking hell!!!
< 1260348016 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 10 mins and we stumble over an open question
< 1260348044 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember why I was too scared to study complexity theoryy befor
< 1260348102 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/qchallenge.html
< 1260348104 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten Semi-Grand Challenges for Quantum Computing Theory
< 1260348152 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah complexity theory is full of open stuff, and it's full of towers that might be completely useless, like the whole polynomial hierarchy
< 1260348184 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towers, as in, we have these infinite sequences A1, A2, ..., and it's not known whether we're actually just talking about one set
< 1260348194 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260348211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is we have tons of structure between these sets, it's just... it might all be just relations between the set and itself :P
< 1260348293 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yay we solved the open problem of whether the complexity class A <= complexity class A with regard to this awesome reduction, using this awesome binary search technique"
< 1260348354 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...at least, again, this is how i see it, mostly hearsay...)
< 1260348407 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After twelve years of effort, not only do we still not know whether BQP sits in the classical polynomial hierarchy, there's really no evidence either way"
< 1260348421 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260348512 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do have courses about quantum computing, or at least one
< 1260348521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably take it
< 1260348528 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION jelous
< 1260348552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a lot of computing stuff here, discrete math uni sorta
< 1260348584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just found http://whybzrisbetterthanx.github.com/
< 1260348624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again the materials for our real analysis course come from another university completely, and the professor who lectures the course doesn't even really do it.
< 1260348643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, github are potentially biased
< 1260348680 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok here's a good one "Is BQP = BPP^BQNC? In other words, can the "quantum" part of any quantum algorithm be compressed to polylog(n) depth, provided we're willing to do polynomial-time classical postprocessing?"
< 1260348697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is known to be true for Shor's algorithm.)
< 1260348701 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...let me do some polynomial time classical postprocessing on that sentence for a while
< 1260348708 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1260348727 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260348731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay i think i get it
< 1260348749 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was true the implication is that it's easier to build quantum computers than currenlty though
< 1260348751 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought
< 1260348841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i don't know how they're currently built, so...
< 1260348845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god for them? :P
< 1260348858 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good
< 1260348884 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something to do with physics and chemisty, I think.. not my domain
< 1260348939 0 :boily!n=boily@poste61-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260348948 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine either, although interest has arisen this year
< 1260348953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for physics
< 1260348957 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really??
< 1260348958 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ?
< 1260348976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i don't really know... i have this problem that i find pretty much everything interesting.
< 1260349001 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly find anything interesting
< 1260349002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be all of math and cs, but it's getting out of hand!
< 1260349008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just all
< 1260349036 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with this quantum stuff it seems like knowing a good bit of physics is important for the computing bits
< 1260349069 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i need to go read about mortality now
< 1260349096 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound interesting
< 1260349118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's philosophy
< 1260349125 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of matrices
< 1260349135 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh??
< 1260349153 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those 3 things sound completely unrelated
< 1260349155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mortality of matrices means given a set of matrices, can you multiply them to zero
< 1260349189 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1260349193 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1260349216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this course, basically leading to proving gödel's incompleteness, although mortality is a much studied field in our uni
< 1260349219 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1260349240 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about proving godels incompleteness :/
< 1260349266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i guess no one, but isn't it sort of something people are supposed to hear about?
< 1260349324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're right, maybe it's the mortality problem that's the interesting one, and not the provability of statements
< 1260349340 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought mortality was about death rates
< 1260349357 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about that too
< 1260349365 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S
< 1260349372 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terms can have many meanings
< 1260349386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in mathematics where every word has a separate mathematical meaning...
< 1260349512 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260349532 0 :abasjueuygeg!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436399.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260349910 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260350045 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437599.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260350100 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260350966 0 :abasjueuygeg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260351146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mortalitys could be some sort of "more philosophical" finishing moves in the Mortal Kombat games. They already have plain old fatalities, and a huge number of variants (animality, babality, brutality, friendship; probably some I don't know of), so why not a mortality too.
< 1260351435 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260351460 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260351503 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260351519 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260351533 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260351539 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260352073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the animation could be like a bunch of matrices around the dude that multiply towards it and finally implode into singularity
< 1260352093 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he die?????
< 1260352126 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he becomes a total zero and everybody laughs at him
< 1260354432 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year" is a famous unsolved problem in mathematics.
< 1260354451 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been proven that we wish you either a merry Christmas or a happy new year, and most mathematicians believe we wish you both.
< 1260354480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's been proven that we wish him a merry Christmas and that they wish you a happy new year.
< 1260354493 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260354500 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I want a happy christmas and a merry new year?
< 1260354503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any norwegians here? there are dubious reports of a giant UFO above the whole of norway
< 1260354514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was wondering if someone would confirm or deny
< 1260354518 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 I saw pics of it
< 1260354533 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are a few papers about whether we wish you other time periods of other degrees of novelty and other enjoyabilities.
< 1260354538 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've not seen it myself....
< 1260354553 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pasteit4me.com/83001
< 1260354562 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OxE6: that would contradict the axiom of choice, but it's believed to be consistent with plain old ZF.
< 1260354565 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some links to pics and news reports
< 1260354600 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZF?
< 1260354625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory.
< 1260354645 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260354664 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260356413 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260356520 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260356581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I just found http://whybzrisbetterthanx.github.com/ <-- heh
< 1260356660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I said something like that about git then ehird would get very angry and point out how irrelevant it was due to being opinion based. Yet I'm quite sure he won't act that way when it is about bzr
< 1260356695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I've been having my own thoughts about writing VCSes
< 1260356707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should really go home
< 1260356717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is that the laptop screen's having hardware problems, and as a result the laptop no longer closes
< 1260356720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really badly need a new computer
< 1260356730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya
< 1260356735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260356736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, get a new laptop then?
< 1260356738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260357612 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260357829 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260357898 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260357981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When I say the definition, clearly it's stupid to think that some NP-complete problems are and some aren't X-D
< 1260358010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you realized it. also glad that i didn't comment before reading on in the logs for once
< 1260358066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:57:30 Fleh, some NP-P problems.
< 1260358104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure whether any of the candidate problems are known not to be in P, even assuming P != NP
< 1260358162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(factorization and discrete logarithm are the once i recall reading about)
< 1260358167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones
< 1260358251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-P problems? XD
< 1260358268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problems in NP not in P
< 1260358270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well can polynomial time runs on a quantum computer be simulated by polynomial runs on a tm?
< 1260358283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was interpreting that as "NP minus P" problems.
< 1260358283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's as unknown as P vs NP
< 1260358300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which suggests I'm not sure what.
< 1260358313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the - is set difference, which is probably pronounced minus rather often
< 1260358329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough.
< 1260358399 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quantumEd found that out
< 1260358428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well i've obviously gone back to commenting before finishing reading, haven't i :D
< 1260358441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : since everyone seems to think P <> NP, then the reasonable assumption is that quantum computers are stronger than normal computers?
< 1260358463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's _a_ reasonable assumption, but i'm not sure there's a clear implication either way
< 1260358474 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i really don't know anything about quantum computing, not all my questions were socratic method
< 1260358482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were also "i have no idea"
< 1260358500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in quantum computers _could_ be simulated in P even if P != NP, but they might also require PSPACE which is harder than NP...
< 1260358515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*could possibly
< 1260358554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all unsolved problems iirc
< 1260358577 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260358615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : T.M.s are still valuable as a representation of all that can be computed, Q.C.s can just compute it faster.
< 1260358678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck T.M.'s aren't that good for fine-grained complexity anyway, because they don't have random access memory so you might get a quadratic overhead to use memory
< 1260358719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although all the "big" questions that i know about care only about polynomials, so aren't that fine-grained
< 1260358720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely addressble random access memory would certainly be cool :)
< 1260358738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq may be a good model for that
< 1260358769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstractly
< 1260358772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, whoa; Debian unstable's updating VirtualBox from 3.0 to the recent 3.1, which *finally* adds: "VM states can now be restored from arbitrary snapshots instead of only the last one, and new snapshots can be taken from other snapshots as well ("branched snapshots"; see the manual for more information)"
< 1260358824 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260358943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quantumEd: afaiu the quantum computing model is somewhere between determinism and nondeterminism, i haven't seen a formal definition for that stuff, and sadly i don't understand anything but that.
< 1260358994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a different kind of nondeterminism than NP, with adding (superpositions) of quantum states and all, so not obviously contained either way as i said
< 1260358997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also a couple other nice changes; virtio-net support for guests to sidestep the silly "emulate a real network card" and live migration of VMs between hosts, for example.)
< 1260359033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260359100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSPACE might be considered a higher form of nondeterminism than both (arbitrary mixing of existential and universal quantification is the essence of the PSPACE-complete problem QBF (quantified (nothing to do with quantum) boolean formula)
< 1260359107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1260359181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1260359199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_quantified_Boolean_formula
< 1260359200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can we also define pspace with an alternating turing machine
< 1260359211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um...
< 1260359414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the wp article on the latter seems to imply so
< 1260359460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AP = PSPACE)
< 1260359744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how can a new model of computation lead to new complexity classes
< 1260359778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many complexity classes are simply what you get when adding resource bound measurements to a computational model
< 1260359847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L, P, PSPACE you get from adding it to ordinary deterministic turing machines
< 1260359858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NL, NP with nondeterministic ones
< 1260359886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are believed to be different. so why shouldn't quantum models give yet another set
< 1260359906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PSPACE = NPSPACE but that is a theorem which needed proof)
< 1260360141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:20:16 in the case of NP, we take the exact same definition, but use nondeterministic turing machines
< 1260360144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:20:32 well i'm not sure what it's supposed to do with negative instances
< 1260360162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you switch positive and negative, you get the class co-NP instead
< 1260360205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-SPACE = SPACE is another nice theorem...
< 1260360229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1260360238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-NSPACE = NSPACE
< 1260360368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes he is repeating some of what oklofok said
< 1260360391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except oklofok actually explained in some detail
< 1260360442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't know the answer, but i think NP is a superset of QP, and QP is a superset of P, in which case we couldn't know, because then we'd also know P!=NP
< 1260360452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that one i think i contradicted ;D
< 1260360619 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260360619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : like P^NP = NP, in P^NP you can solve any problem in NP in one step, but a nondeterminitic turing machine can already do that.
< 1260360627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i think, at least, might be talking out of my ass, in which case i hope someone corrects this.
< 1260360633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :D
< 1260360640 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260360701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's connected with the unsolved NP = co-NP problem, i think
< 1260360739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically NP cannot obviously use itself as a subroutine because there is no way to utilize a "no" result
< 1260360787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if NP = co-NP then you can convert between yes and no, so you get a way around that
< 1260360812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in that case the polynomial hierarchy collapses iirc
< 1260360928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not quite sure about that, should goolge
< 1260360932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gl
< 1260361243 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260361307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah i cannot find a clear statement in any of wp articles i checked
< 1260361317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1260361456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok that one i think i contradicted ;D <<< but unfortunately so did quantumEd :P
< 1260361461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1260361481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did, i just got to it
< 1260361485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not QP, i think it was some other character mess
< 1260361496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "After twelve years of effort, not only do we still not know whether BQP sits in the classical polynomial hierarchy, there's really no evidence either way"
< 1260361496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1260361507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NP vs. P^NP thing i googled myself :D
< 1260361537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed BQP was what you meant by QP
< 1260361552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan: basically NP cannot obv..." <<< oh lol that should've been obvious, thanks
< 1260361561 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for not knowing the exact definition
< 1260361596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan: if you switch positive and negative, you get the class co-NP instead" <<< this doesn't tell me what the machine does with negative instances, does it?
< 1260361612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1260361639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nondeterministic turing machine answers "yes" if there is any path which gives a yes answer, "no" otherwise
< 1260361644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i prolly meant BQP
< 1260361651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the co-classes reverse that
< 1260361675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same as switching existential and universal quantification
< 1260361684 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how fast does it answer no?
< 1260361697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260361706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it just not halt?
< 1260361717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know the polynomial bound, then there is no reason not to cut off after you get to it, regardless
< 1260361728 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in cook's original reduction he said it returns false right away iirc
< 1260361736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260361774 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay i've read a version of it that uses a more traditional model of a computer
< 1260361793 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to think after all this time i don't know exactly what NP means :D
< 1260361793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also the answer checking version...
< 1260361805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are equivalent
< 1260361858 0 :iamcal!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260361874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am pretty sure assuming the machine has the same time available whether it answers yes or no gives the right class
< 1260361909 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i suppose it's enough that it accepts stuff in polynomial time, and doesn't accept the wrong stuff
< 1260361931 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for proofs... would just make it easier to think of it as an actual machine if i had any idea what it actually does for other instances
< 1260361957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1260361965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260361974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, if you know the polynomial bound, you can just cut off once it is reached, say by adding a time counter to your machine
< 1260361987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260361994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get anything more general
< 1260362001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260362007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed
< 1260362008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago
< 1260362010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1260362017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me?
< 1260362020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about again? ;D
< 1260362024 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is calculating the time bound a computable function though?
< 1260362025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260362029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean just out of interest
< 1260362038 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't change the argument if it isn't
< 1260362047 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260362082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well in a sense no, it could involve a constant you don't know...
< 1260362129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for proofs, you can just start with the assumption a polynomial bound exists
< 1260362135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sure
< 1260362174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are doing something meta over many problem instances, i am sure this subtlety _can_ trip you up somehow then :D
< 1260362221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nazis it was
< 1260362240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ein little bischen romance
< 1260362255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klein is small
< 1260362261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bisschen
< 1260362273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little was a bigger typo imo
< 1260362275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i was not attempting perfect german here
< 1260362282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does bisschen mean?
< 1260362286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little
< 1260362293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't fit into the theme anyway :D
< 1260362309 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ein bisschen" is like "a bit"
< 1260362318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for proper german i would leave out the "little"
< 1260362327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bisschen already implies it
< 1260362372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually this should be sz but that is awkward on this keyboard)
< 1260362373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err klein being small would be more "common knowledge" wouldn't it?
< 1260362391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well to non-german speakers perhaps...
< 1260362400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is what I meant yeah
< 1260362401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260362415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, after all everyone surely knows about Eine kleine Nachtmusik?
< 1260362422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure about caps there)
< 1260362545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're correct
< 1260362551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1260362558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nouns are caps
< 1260362590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was more wondering about the "kleine", since it's a title
< 1260362645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the top google results are inconsistent, but wp doesn't use caps for it
< 1260362669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just an english thing
< 1260362683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe american
< 1260362684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my german is rusty
< 1260362919 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260362931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there any norwegians here? there are dubious reports of a giant UFO above the whole of norway
< 1260362934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf?
< 1260362946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot say i noticed while walking home today :D
< 1260363009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err when was that?
< 1260363015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be bad timing, they have put out a lot of anti-aircraft batteries for obama's visit tomorrow ;D
< 1260363041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, put them out where?
< 1260363044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:23 lof time
< 1260363047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*log
< 1260363048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lof?
< 1260363053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is offset?
< 1260363059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beijing time
< 1260363071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed the other day from something US
< 1260363077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "huh"
< 1260363088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+8 GMT
< 1260363092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UTC
< 1260363128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, around oslo, in case of any terrorist airplane hijackings
< 1260363178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well or airplanes anyway
< 1260363249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm there is just one news story in those links mentioned there: dailymail
< 1260363256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember that is untrustable
< 1260363266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm no expert on UK news papers
< 1260363269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh :D
< 1260363309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the daily mail article looks like a joke
< 1260363312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260363314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "whole of norway" could very well be just one town before rumors spread
< 1260363351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it said "northern norway" there
< 1260363367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260363370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Tromsø is mentioned.
< 1260363422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trøndelag, which is here
< 1260363458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260363460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260363468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION launches google earth
< 1260363545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which place with that name?
< 1260363567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sør-Trondelag? Slightly south of Trondheim?
< 1260363569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan
< 1260363571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260363575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what?
< 1260363584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sør-Trøndelag is the county containing Trondheim
< 1260363600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: is your name oerjan?
< 1260363603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah what?
< 1260363624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you comment about monkey "language" not being TC?
< 1260363625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no but I was confused by that it wasn't followed by anything else on the line?
< 1260363629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to check norwegian newspaper
< 1260363632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah
< 1260363655 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is tht a statement or a question
< 1260363655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because Gregor made an Ook joke and i followed along
< 1260363663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok.
< 1260363678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, either
< 1260363711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you dont think that human language is TC
< 1260363712 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260363742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's the top story at vg.no
< 1260363752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagino!
< 1260363768 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italian for "male vagina"!
< 1260363776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short for "verdens gang" (although no one uses the long form these days)
< 1260363796 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verdens gang?
< 1260363798 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word gang?
< 1260363819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm gang is hard to translate idiomatically
< 1260363830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verdens = of the world
< 1260363837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260363838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordly gang
< 1260363843 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagino
< 1260363863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: yes.
< 1260363868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally it means walk, movement
< 1260363884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large one a vaginissimo, and a small one is a vaginino!
< 1260363889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just had a new idea for silly warranty/license combination
< 1260363933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside the shrink-wrapped package there is a paper with the text "warranty void if shrink wrapping is broken"
< 1260364030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be genuine
< 1260364050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh really?
< 1260364095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as in people really have seen something
< 1260364225 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could write an interesting story around that
< 1260364264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seen and taken videos of something
< 1260364296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our "experts" suspect a russian rocket
< 1260364336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/missile
< 1260364349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is happy irssi didn't know how to run that command
< 1260364403 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where like
< 1260364430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what?
< 1260364506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vg.no/nyheter/vaer/artikkel.php?artid=596439 includes video
< 1260364549 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry brb
< 1260364617 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is it?
< 1260364636 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a rocket they don' whirl :/
< 1260364730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speculation is it could be a rocket spiraling out of control
< 1260364756 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALIENS
< 1260365463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what does "selv" mean?
< 1260365689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Google translate for Norwegian → Swedish is quite a lot better than usually, but still far from good
< 1260365716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self
< 1260365735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what?
< 1260365737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense
< 1260365739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"skyldes en russisk rakett, selv om det ennĂĄ ikke er offisielt bekreftet."
< 1260365741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that
< 1260365743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260365745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even
< 1260365756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so one word means self and even?
< 1260365757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260365762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260365774 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260365828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "kilder"?
< 1260365844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "Ifølge"
< 1260365853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context "Ifølge kilder i den russiske TV-kanalen Russia Today"
< 1260365876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sources, according to
< 1260365882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1260365904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "själv om" doesn't mean "even if" in swedish?
< 1260365922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" benektet en talsmann for at de visste noe om en rakettoppskyting."
< 1260365923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260365927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate fails there
< 1260365932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nekade en talesman att de inte visste nĂĄgot om en raket lansering. "
< 1260365945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect
< 1260365955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit too much negation?
< 1260365963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly
< 1260365970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it in the original too?
< 1260365977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to tell
< 1260365982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just "benektet" is negative
< 1260366022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the benefit of English speaking users: "denied that they knew anything" turned into "denied that they didn't know anything" basically
< 1260366023 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo"
< 1260366029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the idea is like
< 1260366055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in some future world companies will just do this shit with license-violated-if-plastic-is-broken
< 1260366062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theyll take it to the extreme where the license is INSIDE the plastic
< 1260366076 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in its OWN plastic so youd have to break the plastic to read the license
< 1260366106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then some smart guy down in econometrics realizes, well, who cares then if we just leave out the actual inner material for the license
< 1260366114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just let the license sheet be blank, but for the front page
< 1260366119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll save a boatload of money
< 1260366159 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually theyre just selling software or whatever without licenses
< 1260366176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but theyll take it to the extreme where the license is INSIDE the plastic <-- yes I said that far
< 1260366178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this leads to some humor and a doctorowesque tragedy-of-copyright-law thing
< 1260366204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, nice
< 1260366234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "hevder fenomenet kan komme fra en lyskaster"?
< 1260366239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that last word
< 1260366384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp crosslink gives me "stage lighting instrument"
< 1260366436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm floodlight
< 1260366449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(section on that crosslinked page)
< 1260366474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, other theory:
< 1260366489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm could be spotlight too
< 1260366498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ufo, and government trying to hush it up and failing to coordinate the hushing up with Russia.
< 1260366519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right
< 1260366529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there a video somewhat watchable? Like youtube or youtube?
< 1260366548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with the video on that page?
< 1260366559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no javascript, no flash
< 1260366583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the article mentioned youtube so probably
< 1260366693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I found was quite a fail
< 1260366702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks nothing like those static pictures
< 1260366764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not terribly interested
< 1260366794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, missile does sound plausible *shrug*
< 1260366846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is high enough up in the atmosphere it could easily be illuminated by the sun
< 1260366849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might check out the thread on the reddit front page. if you can read _that_
< 1260366878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't reached that yet though
< 1260366959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah... much of that region probably has no sunlight this time of year
< 1260367132 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear god not over here as well
< 1260367143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what?
< 1260367163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lights in Norway
< 1260367203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo!
< 1260367247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I don't mind really
< 1260367657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : might check out the thread on the reddit front page. if you can read _that_ <-- which one on there
< 1260367684 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260367752 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260367753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/actjs/mystery_as_spiral_blue_light_display_hovers_above/
< 1260367763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the one i see on the front page
< 1260367778 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260367784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh
< 1260367797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/acp3d/strange_spiral_phenomenon_appearing_on_the_sky_in/ is much larger
< 1260367803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs glasses
< 1260367845 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definitely a rocket gone awry"
< 1260367943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok when i suggested the reddit thread it was in case there were further video links there, maybe i should have mentioned that
< 1260367969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual discussion can be ... variable ...
< 1260367985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i still haven't looked at it myself, mind you
< 1260368397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm 255 points, first I wondered why reddit was using unsigned char for the vote
< 1260368405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I realized it probably wasn't max
< 1260368406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260368580 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260368767 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260372710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260372968 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260376769 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260376938 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260377443 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode."
< 1260378063 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is a semi-failed fireworks experiment. :)
< 1260378238 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed?? peopel around the world saw it!
< 1260378247 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a semi-win if nothing :P
< 1260378714 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260378736 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260379946 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260380522 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260380553 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279283419.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260382265 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1260383080 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260383088 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260383214 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260383222 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260384273 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260386410 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260386573 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260386573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260386573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260386625 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260386639 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260386639 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260386711 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-7.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260386796 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260387311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260388156 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260388227 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260388228 0 :OxE6|!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-7.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260388236 0 :OxE6|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260388438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260388463 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260390970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260392785 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260393405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260393453 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260393816 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260394167 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260395248 0 :Guest67800!n=mu@wsip-68-224-216-12.br.no.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260395270 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260395297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys
< 1260395461 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260395498 0 :Guest67800!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260397010 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1260398272 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260401594 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello augur
< 1260401611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1260401875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the following is legal C++0x: struct foo { long inline int explicit unsigned volatile virtual long const f(); }; fun
< 1260401885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260401908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace f with operator long const int volatile long unsigned
< 1260401940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no it's not
< 1260401942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1260401954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the longest chain of nonredundant keywords possible is
< 1260402894 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260403613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: long inline int explicit unsigned volatile virtual long const f()? Man. That's quite impressive.
< 1260403633 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: could string "operator" in there too
< 1260403636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. operator foo()
< 1260403640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260403642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator +()
< 1260403683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long inline int explicit unsigned volatile virtual long const operator !(void) const; // Maybe?
< 1260403712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know
< 1260403815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long inline int explicit unsigned volatile virtual long const operator and ();
< 1260403821 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically "and" is not a keyword
< 1260403902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess if you count those, you could just have an arbitrary pointer expression constructed with bitand bitand bitand bitand bitand bitand bitand bitand bitand... i; to dereference it umpteen billion times
< 1260403906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/de//
< 1260403923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you can do that with keywords to!
< 1260403933 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, c++
< 1260403945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do ... ; while(1); while(1); ...
< 1260404503 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do 2
< 1260404504 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1260404586 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260405092 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :höhö do do
< 1260408313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: x: goto x; goto x; ...
< 1260408748 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260409185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260409235 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int(*p)(int,int,int,int,int,int,int,int,int,...,int,int);?
< 1260409530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those all have some non-whitespace punctuation/non-keywordy stuff, unlike the do do do do do re mi wait I got sidetracked.
< 1260410988 0 :Guest67800!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260413656 0 :Guest67800!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260414205 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260414671 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260415786 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260418003 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260420150 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-16-130.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260420842 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260421966 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260424802 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260425583 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-ledurksbvqrtrizd JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260425972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds
< 1260427757 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279283419.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260427965 0 :AirCastle!i=inhahe@adsl-074-186-083-219.sip.mia.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260428466 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260428616 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-89.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260428731 0 :Guest67800!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260429830 0 :Guest67800!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260430013 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260430089 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260430983 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260431894 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260431999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260432000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260433492 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437556.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260436301 0 :Guest67800!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260436307 0 :Guest67800!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mu
< 1260436309 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260436373 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282221.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260436376 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260438735 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260440093 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260440477 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@67-208-6-119.ip.tor.radiant.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260440582 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260440597 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-164.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260441386 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@67-208-6-119.ip.tor.radiant.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260441493 0 :cal153!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260443002 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260443508 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260444604 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260448932 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260449854 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260450272 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260450947 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260452869 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260453076 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260453815 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260454096 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260455978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260455986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago
< 1260455993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me what it was about?
< 1260456000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no _you_ remind me
< 1260456007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I read it hours ago too
< 1260456011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around noon I think
< 1260456020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess we'll never know, then
< 1260456032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I remember
< 1260456039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cue* gasp
< 1260456054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it Steve and Terry?
< 1260456073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1260456116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. i somehow thought that was yesterday.
< 1260456198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah! found out your secret then!
< 1260456202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel!
< 1260456219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains how you can always had read it hours ago
< 1260456253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't always have read it hours ago
< 1260456262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, you started it
< 1260456272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, started what?
< 1260456281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"read it hours ago"
< 1260456286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe I did
< 1260456294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was true though
< 1260456300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so was this
< 1260456312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course *wink*
< 1260456333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say no more!
< 1260456378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but ... won't that kill the channel?
< 1260456419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes indeed it would. Evil mirror universe fizzie is trying to trick you
< 1260456426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1260456445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls a scifi story about evil mirror beings
< 1260456479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, isn't that one of those required things if you have any sort of parallel universes?
< 1260456480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually went _through_ mirrors though
< 1260456492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you got to have dragons in novel length fantasy
< 1260456506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(short stories are not subject to these rules)
< 1260456516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, it is optional there)
< 1260456518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was a planet that had removed all mirrors after getting rid of them the first time
< 1260456531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they actually went _through_ mirrors though <-- Alice through the looking glass
< 1260456539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even water ponds did not reflect there
< 1260456559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what did they add to the water to make that happen?
< 1260456613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, it was not exactly hard scifi
< 1260456617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's not a dragon, it's a dragaeran.
< 1260456627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i read it > 20 years ago, i think
< 1260456649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh?
< 1260456668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gabe: How about the fact every person in this book is some kind of dragon?
< 1260456668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tycho: Not dragons *per se*. Technically, they're Dragaerans.
< 1260456668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gabe: That's fair. Let's say I were to... chokeaeran you. Would you appreciate the distinction?"
< 1260456685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/06/14/
< 1260456696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260457356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no long story arcs in that one right?
< 1260457367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers comics that have a long story
< 1260457382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than one story per day or such
< 1260457436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, no.
< 1260457443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm?
< 1260457459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, you are correct; there are no long story arcs in that comic."
< 1260457469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "no.."?
< 1260457485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260457486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*Yes*, you are correct; there are *no* long story arcs in that comic."
< 1260457486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260457512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a couple of occasions they've done continuity over multiple strips, but never more than a couple.
< 1260457514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style pa
< 1260457514 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
< 1260457523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wouldn't you agree?
< 1260457523 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the year was 1942. fighting was intense in the streets of... why are you looking for?
< 1260457541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a strange name for a place.
< 1260457542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why are you looking for"
< 1260457555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who and what
< 1260457560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why that's a new one
< 1260457583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not stranger than for example Mount Lookatthat, though "what" would work better.
< 1260457611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that mountain exists?
< 1260457624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Larry Niven books.
< 1260457628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not in real world.
< 1260457675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's nowhere near Your Finger You Fool?
< 1260457768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D
< 1260457769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the planet NowWhat, named after the opening words of the first settlers to arrive. (In the Hitchhiker books. With the capital city OhWell.)
< 1260457786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I forgot that
< 1260457787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing the "Your Finger You Fool" thing written down somewhere too.
< 1260457791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which book
< 1260457795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fifth.
< 1260457796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, discworld
< 1260457822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the place with the boghogs.
< 1260457868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with the what?
< 1260457876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never liked the fifth book
< 1260457901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- the major activities pursued on NowWhat were those of catching, skinning and eating NowWhattian boghogs, which were the only extant form of animal life on NowWhat, all other having long ago died of despair."
< 1260457908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote Adams himself, it's a bleak book.
< 1260457941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was it the alternative earth thingy
< 1260457965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, the place that were in the place Earth should've been.
< 1260457971 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the boghogs the one who only communicate by biting each other hard?
< 1260457978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rembane: On the thigh, yes.
< 1260458004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Life on NowWhat being what it was, most of what a boghog might have to say about it could easily be signified by these means."
< 1260458054 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think that part is very funny.
< 1260458075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, though the part with the boghog-killing is a bit depressing.
< 1260458102 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260458202 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have forgot that part, luckily it seems.
< 1260458401 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260458954 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260459121 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260459369 0 :jpc1!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260459898 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260459956 0 :adu!n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260460173 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260460176 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260460571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1260460576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→
< 1260460952 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279283138.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260461205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys
< 1260461213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the language that has time travel?
< 1260461223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that one of you guyses
< 1260461236 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a bunch?
< 1260461241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather?
< 1260461258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twoducks
< 1260461272 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos language is feather?
< 1260461284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's
< 1260461294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1260461299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not published
< 1260461304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or finished
< 1260461315 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a pretty cheap idea
< 1260461321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could tack time travel onto any language
< 1260461335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to see a time travel monad in haskell
< 1260461370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not liable to ever be finished
< 1260461379 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure that monads already count as time travel
< 1260461389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1260461394 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually only in one direction :)
< 1260461395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not compared to Feather
< 1260461399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a guy who talked about representing monadic operations visually
< 1260461404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Feather, you get to retroactively modify the compiler
< 1260461422 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how the behavior of monads looks a lot like you're performing computations on values and spitting out answers before you even have the values
< 1260461723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen a backwards state monad...
< 1260462194 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how is that even computable?
< 1260462210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: No clue
< 1260462478 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260462715 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260464222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260464564 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-96-231-169-236.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260464824 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think monads are like time travel.
< 1260464903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. monads are like boxes filled with chocolate. belgian.
< 1260465144 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radioactive chocolate burritos
< 1260465173 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260465223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's arrows
< 1260465247 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, arrows. I've forgotten about those.
< 1260465304 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows
< 1260465348 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the primitives? (a :-> b) -> (b :-> c) -> (a :-> c), (a -> b) -> (a :-> b), and (a :-> b) -> ((a,c) :-> (b,c))?
< 1260465478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you listed (>>>), arr and first iirc
< 1260465537 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards state monad is computable, it makes essential use of lazyness
< 1260465564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260465568 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elephant has not got time travel but maybe something similar
< 1260465581 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember reading something on the esolang wiki about time travel though
< 1260465655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh they've added a Category superclass
< 1260465884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like those are the minimal set
< 1260466036 0 :jpc1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260466932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads aren't like boxes filled with chocolate. Monads are like Schroedinger's cat in a box. ... Or something like that.
< 1260466959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, the point is that you observe it and then it calculates the state.
< 1260467097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks pikhq did not get the joke
< 1260467103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/ may help
< 1260468570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that.
< 1260468581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, chocolate.
< 1260469324 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260470260 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260471783 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260472581 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260474666 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260474836 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260475626 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260476212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260477307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260477314 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-96-231-169-236.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260478140 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heisenburgers.com - Certain about good taste.
< 1260479690 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260480217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260480751 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260480801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to comment that Oleg's C++ is the most amazing thing I have ever read.
< 1260480835 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-16-130.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260480904 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so
< 1260481071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional C++.
< 1260481097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdas in C++0x!
< 1260481125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... He does it in current C++.
< 1260481145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, it's just more verbose and yucky that way :(
< 1260481152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's pretty awesome
< 1260481156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when combined with templates
< 1260481168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is basically the only way to do it, but still)
< 1260481209 0 :jpc1!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260481209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's not even functional programming in the template system...
< 1260481218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just defines classes with operator().
< 1260481233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And defines macros to make that sane.
< 1260481321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Granted, you still need some templates for passing lambdas to functions. Not as crazy as you'd expect.
< 1260481984 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260482001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just looking at the page about Timefuck today
< 1260482086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1260482094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in the wiki
< 1260482306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also thinking about self-modifying codes in video DSPs, today, too.
< 1260482710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I noticed that the CPUID program I wrote won't work on the anarchy golf server
< 1260482724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It outputs all null bytes if run there)
< 1260483258 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260483435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000,{{`1/sq%A+}F91=}^Pa
< 1260483484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnivaeL"
< 1260485628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260486230 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1260487479 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260488343 0 :jpc1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260496986 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260496986 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260497117 0 :Cyndaquil!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260497134 0 :Cyndaquil!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly
< 1260499484 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-82-17.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260500095 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260500440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260503183 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260503323 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260504370 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260507291 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what else than just XHRs it let to do...
< 1260507336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consume a lot of CPU?
< 1260507355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript is relatively well sandboxed; ofc, there'd be more of a problem if another bug let the JS escape the sandbox
< 1260507385 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such bugs are almost certainity.
< 1260507386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, hearing about a tarball exploit is kind-of funny, just like hearing about image file exploits in Windows
< 1260507445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260507447 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being able to do arbitrary XHR, its not bound by same-origin. And then one wonders what other nonstandard permissions it has.
< 1260507463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same-origin hardly makes a lot of sense, given that it's a tarball
< 1260507484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... same origin would presumably mean the local filesystem, I /hope/ it can't XHR there
< 1260507506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the URL is a file:// URL, does XHR ever let you do that?
< 1260507508 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applying same-origin here would disallow XHR completely.
< 1260507536 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would only allow file:// and those can't be XHR'd to.
< 1260507564 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260507615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm glad that file:// can't be XHR'd to
< 1260507615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously glad
< 1260507624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if IE knows that
< 1260507842 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AFAIK, XHR'ing file:// makes as much sense as sending form to file:// URL.
< 1260507862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I can understand what the semantics of the first should be
< 1260507905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides, you /can/ send forms to file:// URLs, if you have a file whose name ends ?key1=value1&key2=value2, etc)
< 1260507934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the issue is you need a separate file for each possible form input)
< 1260507947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... now I want to invent a really weird filesystem driver that effectively creates a CGI filesystem
< 1260509150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1260509166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, certain filenames automatically do weird things
< 1260509175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just get a static file from disc, it's auto-generated, for instance
< 1260509179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like /proc, but different
< 1260509205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260509208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is XHR?
< 1260509223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XmlHttpRequest
< 1260509227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260509240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it makes an HTTP request from inside JavaScript running on a browser
< 1260509247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the XML part is completely irrelevant, presumably there for historical reasons
< 1260509255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used for AJAX
< 1260509261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, likewise, may not actually involve XML
< 1260509266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260509428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what is a good algorithm for collision detection between 2D circles?
< 1260509451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculate the distance between their centres (using pythagoras)
< 1260509453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's less than the sum of their radii, they collided
< 1260509458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works in any number of dimensions
< 1260509472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circles are particularly easy shapes to do collision detection with :)
< 1260509473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah good idea
< 1260509500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a circle and a rectangle?
< 1260509509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit harder
< 1260509519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the rectangle may be rotated btw
< 1260509526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to find what point on the rectangle is closest to the centre of the circle, by comparing coordinates
< 1260509530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then measure the distance to that
< 1260509531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that circle collision one is neat, I've used that before
< 1260509541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, first you determine where the centre of the circle is, in the rectangle's coordinate system
< 1260509550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm
< 1260509550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you see whether it's nearest one of the corners or one of the sides
< 1260509556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: so have I
< 1260509562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was really young at the time
< 1260509681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about collision detection of two circles to make them bounce realistically against each other?
< 1260509691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, calculating which directions they will bounce off in
< 1260509701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may have different speeds and may not collide head on
< 1260509708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collision detection to see whether they hit each other
< 1260509714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260509719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you do the coefficient of restitution algorithms
< 1260509728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm?
< 1260509733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather neatly, if the balls are perfectly elastic you can just swap the momentums of the two balls
< 1260509740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they aren't, you need to do a bit of A-level mechanics
< 1260509756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "A-level"?
< 1260509770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the exams people in the UK do just before they go to university
< 1260509775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260509798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, perfectly elastic sounds fine here
< 1260509825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about perfectly inelastic
< 1260509843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you average the momentums, and both balls move at that average
< 1260509855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stay stuck next to each other forever, if it's perfectly inelastic
< 1260510270 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just swap their momenta; that's only if they hit head-on.
< 1260510435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for glancing blows it works
< 1260510445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't reverse the momenta
< 1260510449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you swap them between the two circles
< 1260510468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if one is moving faster and hit the other straight from behind?
< 1260510481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from straight*
< 1260510490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the one in front ends up moving faster, and the one behind ends up movign slower
< 1260510494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moving
< 1260510494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct
< 1260510543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if one is static and unmovable (say, forming part of the scenery?
< 1260510558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a different situation
< 1260510562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1260510580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively, there are /two/ collisions involved there: circle with circle, and circle with fixed background
< 1260510582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say a circle bouncing against the edge of the simulation
< 1260510585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which changes the situation quite a bit
< 1260510607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I meant just a circle and the background
< 1260510618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a circle bouncing against a fixed straight line, you just mirror its motion around that line, then translate by the diameter of the circle
< 1260510620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably just the screen edges
< 1260510629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1260510634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, basically, the only physical reason something wouldn't move is that it's held in place
< 1260510640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe I'm not sure what you mean by swapping them.
< 1260510646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to model the physics, you have to model what's holding it in place
< 1260510657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: before the collision, circle a has velocity v_a, circle b has velocity v_b
< 1260510666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards, circle a has velocity v_b, circle b has velocity v_a
< 1260510673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm not exactly. I'm trying to model a semi-realistic game of pong with multiple balls and gravity
< 1260510687 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then for glancing blows, they'll move exactly as if they had hit head-on.
< 1260510700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: no, because the velocities are different
< 1260510707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a glancing blow, the velocities are similar beforehand
< 1260510709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're similar afterwards
< 1260510726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas for a head-on collision, the velocities change by a lot because they were very different beforehand
< 1260510733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe we're not using "glancing blow" the same way.
< 1260510734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same formula, different effects
< 1260510745 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider a glancing blow when they're moving in opposite directions.
< 1260510746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I see what you mean now
< 1260510754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, you have to allow for that case
< 1260510764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happens in that case then?
< 1260510781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong formula?
< 1260510784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260510790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I gave was a simplification
< 1260510798 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to decompose the momenta into two components and swap only one component.
< 1260510802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1260510808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1260510820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION currently tracks it as delta_x and delta_y
< 1260510833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it would be easier if AnMaster just learnt basic mechanics
< 1260510835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ease of calculating next position
< 1260510837 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what to call those components.
< 1260510855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I forgot the stuff due to having a bad teacher in high school
< 1260510872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: it's the components normal to the shared tangent that are swapped
< 1260510879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the components parallel to the shared tangent that stay the same
< 1260510881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst physics teacher ever
< 1260510905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1260510916 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I know this stuff. >.>
< 1260510923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst physics teacher ever, generated small black holes everywhere.
< 1260510934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I said previously assumed there was no component parallel to the shared tangent, which ofc isn't true in practice
< 1260510937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260510952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you're trying to be really realistic with the physics, though, you'd model the effects of spin too
< 1260510957 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it more assumed that the components parallel to the shared tangent were identical.
< 1260510963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people use that a lot in actual table tennis
< 1260510965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not going that far
< 1260510969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ah,yes
< 1260510970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah, yes
< 1260510972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or maybe
< 1260510973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260510977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for the initial version anyway
< 1260510985 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. as far as momentum went, the system was symmetrical.
< 1260511008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't like the way the ball collides with the paddle is very realistic anyway in pong
< 1260511069 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: if a small black hole were charged, it would quickly absorb a particle of the opposite charge and become uncharged; if it were uncharged, it would hardly do anything. Assuming, as a worst-case scenario, that Hawking radiation doesn't work.
< 1260511112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even if it does, it's unlikely to evaporate instantly
< 1260511116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very quickly
< 1260511118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, who broke it?
< 1260511145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would that radiation be harmful?
< 1260511158 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliezer Yudkowsky.
< 1260511165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, argh XD
< 1260511166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wouldn't be enough of it to measure unless you had an LHC-quality radiation detector
< 1260511185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC it would probably be in the gamma region, so theoretically harmful if you had enough of it
< 1260511190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with that name
< 1260511194 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on the size. How much mass is emitted by a light bulb each second?
< 1260511202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have seen it mentioned a lot recentlu
< 1260511206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently*
< 1260511208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this channel
< 1260511220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming "small black hole" = a few particles
< 1260511224 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's because it's the name of a person that people have mentioned a lot recently.
< 1260511236 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, the owner of yudkowsky.net, who writes at lesswrong.com.
< 1260511248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, never heard of those web sites
< 1260511287 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I first came across Yudkowsky, I found his stuff very interesting.
< 1260511396 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess I recommend it.
< 1260511498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, some Wikipedian made a list of all the things that are possible in Windows XP but not Windows Vista
< 1260511503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista
< 1260511572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be one long list of references after every statement is sourced.
< 1260511591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The Log Off confirmation on the classic Start menu has been removed. <--- this
< 1260511607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's that big a problem, just that the entry still says "Log off..." with three dots
< 1260511615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets me every time as I wait several minutes for the dialog box to come up
< 1260511622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dots, and it wouldn't be a problem
< 1260511634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, those dots. what happen instead?
< 1260511642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just logs off, without confirmation
< 1260511643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just log out?
< 1260511653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then why waiting several minutes?
< 1260511655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... at the end of a menu item implies "dialog box coming" pretty much everywhere
< 1260511661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that's how long it takes to log out
< 1260511666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah
< 1260511674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why are you using vista?
< 1260511678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I found something similar in Gnome network-manager today
< 1260511684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, xp or 7 I can understand
< 1260511687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: public terminals, I'm not always on my laptop
< 1260511697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vista is just incomprehensible
< 1260511712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the network-manager problem is that if you try to make a global change, you get a ... at the end of whatever the OK button is called
< 1260511724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need to enter an auth password to change settings globally
< 1260511725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense
< 1260511734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all windows computers at the university I'm at seems to run English XP Pro
< 1260511737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you already have a remembered password (i.e. on the sudo timeout), the dots are still there
< 1260511740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it doesn't prompy
< 1260511741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prompt
< 1260511746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a mix of XP, Vista, and 7 here
< 1260511749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but with classicl look
< 1260511753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer in my office runs 7
< 1260511754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic*
< 1260511756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1260511761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like windows 2000
< 1260511885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows Vista restricts the amount of memory DPMI programs can have to 32 MB (33,554,432 bytes). The limitation applies to DPMI programs running inside NTVDM. [59] The same is not true for previous versions of Windows."
< 1260511888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of strange
< 1260511897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an issue for C-INTERCAL, I think
< 1260511904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it uses NTVDM when running the DOS build under Windows
< 1260511947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Gopher protocol is no longer supported."
< 1260511948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH
< 1260511955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except
< 1260511959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't in XP either iirc
< 1260511981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why can't you compile C-INTERCAL to use cygwin or something?
< 1260511993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or just windows directly
< 1260511997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for dos at all
< 1260511997 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260512000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin you can, just that's a different build
< 1260512003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260512007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hours ago
< 1260512010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me
< 1260512011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and running the DOS build on Windows is useful, mostly because it's hard to test otherwise
< 1260512018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i haven't read it yet
< 1260512024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, HAHAHA
< 1260512033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, fantasy theme
< 1260512040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just brought up mezzacotta
< 1260512047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, fantasy + death even
< 1260512081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all the iwc reminders in here?
< 1260512095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "who is first to mention IWC" game
< 1260512102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, between me and oerjan
< 1260512120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
< 1260512121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
< 1260512131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah I mentioned it before you
< 1260512144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by 1/3 of a second or so)
< 1260512153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it first at this end
< 1260512157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's let clog settle
< 1260512175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"...
< 1260512177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1260512179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also how is it worse?
< 1260512196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:20 oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
< 1260512197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:21 ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
< 1260512198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good idea to do that!
< 1260512200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog says I win
< 1260512223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do not acknowledge clog as an authority in these matters
< 1260512276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say ais523 wins, too. Not that my authority is any more justified.
< 1260512276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:45 < ais523> oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game
< 1260512276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10:45 < AnMaster> ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?
< 1260512284 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot escape the win.
< 1260512322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need exact sub-second timestamps from precisely aligned clocks or something
< 1260512375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the records, my timestamps were 16:10:45 for both.
< 1260512419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 wins
< 1260512427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"...
< 1260512429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: A winner is him.
< 1260512446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metaw *hit by falling anvil*
< 1260512455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder when AnMaster'll realize he's always the one with the bigger lag
< 1260512456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D
< 1260512508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but I win due to using ipv6 to connect. Since the lag introduced by the tunnel is not counted due to it being so cool or something. Unless ais523 is also using ipv6?
< 1260512522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also i saw ais523 first too
< 1260512530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260512543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's a bit hard to say who wins
< 1260512575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose you win if none of the lag is counted
< 1260512597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh the ipv4 lag is counted
< 1260512602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not the bit due to the tunnel
< 1260512610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right, yeah
< 1260512611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed hard to calculate
< 1260512626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, really it should be based on locally hitting enter
< 1260512631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very hard to calculate
< 1260512693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you had the advantage based on the fact that you made the comment that triggered it
< 1260512693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll have seen the trigger first
< 1260512717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good point
< 1260512728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however I wrote a much longer line
< 1260512741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I must have started writing that line way before you did
< 1260512742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comment with the smaller SHA1 hash wins.
< 1260512749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260512759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: have you calculated them?
< 1260512766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hashing based on what content?
< 1260512771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the bit after the nick? the whole message/
< 1260512776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the whole message, as seen from which server?
< 1260512782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are we writing nicks as
< 1260512787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the final newline count?
< 1260512801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the message parameter part. And without the final newline; that's a message separator anyway.
< 1260512810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The bit after the nick", that is.
< 1260512827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum
< 1260512827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef -
< 1260512831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum
< 1260512831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 -
< 1260512834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1260512837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *do* win
< 1260512855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that
< 1260512887 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the message parameter part, without the final newline, as that's the part that the user has the most control over.
< 1260512892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sha512sum you would win ais523 : 98e07e1aaff52703459c37d2c069dcf245e7a9dff8b217cc132fdbe52cd8a4399e7bd474ae5a34c3fed86aa8d6db7f2148ab8077dcdeb053acabede44ad8b435 vs 35fd098b72b5af8f3314c4d94df407c1bb0b06b86b4f04cd2b8a220a05600f292d5967f2bf9c8f55f979de6173d65ce5b70620bf8d296f018667b51afa8cb31f
< 1260512903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'oh, it'"\'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | sha1sum4bdbea4adce1244fc1992c25027dc83510382b72 -
< 1260512905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"\'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | sha1sum
< 1260512906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :870b779382fc1782cab65d33fe31b346ac9d6d6f -
< 1260512916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win with SHA1 too
< 1260512921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see above
< 1260512932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, strangely my client seems to have clipped a newline
< 1260512935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a different result
< 1260512942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: me = SHA1, you = SHA512
< 1260512946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the results are different!
< 1260512948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see above that
< 1260512952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum
< 1260512952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef -
< 1260512952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum
< 1260512952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 -
< 1260512955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit
< 1260512963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your way gives an extra \ in the hash input.
< 1260512970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just remove the sha1sum part and you'll see.
< 1260512970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said
< 1260512977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260512981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes this metawar got far out of hand
< 1260512987 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "blah\"blah\"blah"
< 1260512988 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah"blah"blah
< 1260512991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I never metawar that didn't.
< 1260513003 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1260513009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | md5sum
< 1260513011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e876a9a90f35c175d397018775def433 -
< 1260513012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | md5sum
< 1260513014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94b963161db7696d693326c0748bd493 -
< 1260513020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing the backslash problem, looks like AnMaster wins on md5 too
< 1260513026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1260513047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whirdpool? I don't seem to have any tool for calculating that around
< 1260513053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whirlpool*
< 1260513067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing.
< 1260513068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | crc32 /dev/stdin
< 1260513069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2fa93fe5
< 1260513070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | crc32 /dev/stdin
< 1260513072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39b3660a
< 1260513074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, take that
< 1260513080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260513090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, crc32c?
< 1260513095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what crc32
< 1260513100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the Perl version
< 1260513110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comes with Archive::Zip
< 1260513113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 ...
< 1260513118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about the algorithm
< 1260513122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not where it came from
< 1260513123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260513133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Now you have sufficient information to find out, duh.
< 1260513145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too much work duh?
< 1260513146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, whatever algorithm zipfiles use
< 1260513153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're the one who cares, duh?
< 1260513155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the source
< 1260513163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, duh duh!
< 1260513169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuh-uh!
< 1260513200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, I think sha1sum is the one that should count
< 1260513220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing. <-- done it yet?
< 1260513226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think timestamp is what should count
< 1260513252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and the local one when one hit enter. Do you use ntp?
< 1260513256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I do
< 1260513261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A weighted sum of all SHA-3 second round competitors, weights from the number of published cryptanalysis papers about them.
< 1260513263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking for how to enable subsecond timestamps
< 1260513274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260513302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's nontrivial for me to enable sub/minute/ timestamps
< 1260513302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having the "competitors" themselves provide the timestamps introduces an obvious trust problem.
< 1260513314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1260513326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds like a shitty irc client
< 1260513340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just one optimised for different things than you want
< 1260513344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1260513346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260513347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only solution I can think of is to have a trusted third party (me) install surveillance devices to both of your apartments. Stop wriggling, this is for your own good.
< 1260513348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes
< 1260513349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1260513359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, irssi?
< 1260513361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, you agree.
< 1260513375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Konversation
< 1260513376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I agreed to the former statement
< 1260513379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the second
< 1260513382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well *shrug*
< 1260513393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I disagree, on the basis that I'm not currently /in/ my apartment
< 1260513397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't have the desired effect
< 1260513408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not at home either
< 1260513411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't worry, I'll just have someone follow you around.
< 1260513428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's a bit too expensive for this purpose, though.
< 1260513435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: as long as they're good at esoprogramming and fun to talk to, I don't mind
< 1260513438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be useful
< 1260513444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I'm not in an apartement
< 1260513447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when at home
< 1260513450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free standing house
< 1260513474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again, same here, but I wasn't sure about definitions...)
< 1260513494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1260513495 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* speeches ss wp youtube
< 1260513497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab
< 1260513502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: give me some garbage
< 1260513503 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could, but it is very weird. why didn't they just call it ten? that chick? dude. i mean, honestly. what's the hole card. that means you like shit!!!
< 1260513508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl
< 1260513509 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
< 1260513514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi there
< 1260513515 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, if we continue to permit land to lie fallow or be set aside for them.
< 1260513526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: heh, I like that style
< 1260513527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, really?
< 1260513529 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mr president, i would like to suggest that people can bring progress in the budgetary policy. it is disgraceful to change things, quite the reverse, it is not that but rather to the practice of executions in the usa because we have lost our bearings? this is a thinly veiled means of interfering in this process? the third point. the tragedy involving semira has shaken our society and, indeed, from country to country. whi
< 1260513529 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: despite the massive investment of the european parliament is well aware of the need to safeguard economies most dependent on coastal fishing, which contribute not only to goods and services.
< 1260513531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works.
< 1260513537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1260513546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fizzie not fungot for the last line
< 1260513547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, madam president-in-office of the council, which has done most to expose real and fundamental problems of work and to consider that although the reduction in actual transportation costs. at the same time the european parliament has not taken the crisis in kosovo to an end.
< 1260513559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem confused about my kender
< 1260513561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gender*
< 1260513565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's the chance that that style will start "mr president,"?
< 1260513584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works. <-- as a matter of fact I do
< 1260513616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, separate bedroom (small) and office (also small)
< 1260513618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable.
< 1260513631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again bbiab really now
< 1260513650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: again?
< 1260513653 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mr president, on the basis of the charging system and also on how they should progress in future. the european refugee fund under category 3. in recent weeks and months to come.
< 1260513653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can do an empirical sampling of a thousand sentences or so if you like.
< 1260513661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, no need
< 1260513667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering what causes it to do that
< 1260513677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it take a random sentence and start with its first two words, for instance?
< 1260513735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable. <-- fungot not producing human readable output? XD
< 1260513739 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, after a lively debate in stockholm, a special fund and that is the position in crafts and small and medium-sized cotton farms in greece, compared with fnord in it and that will not happen automatically, they are often housed in disgraceful conditions. this surely will be: ' very well, we need a uniform statute for asylum seekers and immigrants. the third aspect of this process, the middle east peace proc
< 1260513758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's just that every sentence in the corpus has had the special token START added in the beginning, and then those are modeled by the n-grams just like any other token; and the text generation starts with an (invisible) context "START".
< 1260513771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please make a graph about precidency.
< 1260513794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I think the correct reply may be "augh"
< 1260513810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I saw a pun that wasn't there
< 1260513814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab again
< 1260513835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did, actually
< 1260513845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no pun intended"
< 1260513874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes about a second or two of the Perl script to generate a sentence, so this sampling will take a moment.
< 1260513875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of a really awful pun I heard a while back
< 1260513892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the idea is that there was a pun competition
< 1260513907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ten finalists submitted puns that they thought were really bad, and would beat the current record pun
< 1260513910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no pun in ten did
< 1260513949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nng.
< 1260513966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you it was bad
< 1260514024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very intermediate results: http://pastebin.com/m39b468be
< 1260514030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd was funny imo
< 1260514038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hovertext
< 1260514073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably, the Perl script might not perfectly correspond to what the bot itself does. (Especially if the bot has gone self-aware.)
< 1260514082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i started reading those as a list of things you can address someone ass
< 1260514084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as
< 1260514087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260514101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they mostly are, if you think about it
< 1260514114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr president and madam president work
< 1260514116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ladies and", for instance
< 1260514120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "many major"
< 1260514122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : told you it was bad
< 1260514128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm unable to spot it
< 1260514130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "ladies and gentlemen" almost certainly
< 1260514131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the pun
< 1260514152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: somehow, you being unable to spot the pun is funnier than the actual pun
< 1260514161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ....
< 1260514170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you please point it out
< 1260514177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pun in those then did
< 1260514196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That one instance actually goes: "ladies and gentlemen, mrs neyts-uyttebroeck, ladies and gentlemen, poverty in the european convention."
< 1260514196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ten
< 1260514209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1260514212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes?
< 1260514217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's fungot output? or the original?
< 1260514221 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mr president, i have always welcomed his proposals in this house we would disagree, but on the form such compromises could take. i ask for your support and i thank the rapporteur mrs giannakou-koutsikou, but also the new media will completely replace the old regulation just in time, would be very similar. this will always be positive and i speak to you not as a member of the same group, included the republic of lithuani
< 1260514230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fungot output, sorry.
< 1260514246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: point is the last sentence doesn't really work except as a pun
< 1260514260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes the grammar is wrong
< 1260514263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think AnMaster hasn't seen the pun at all yet
< 1260514268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, correct
< 1260514271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grammar isn't quite wrong, but it is rather tortured
< 1260514276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what line it should be in
< 1260514276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a clue that it's a punchline
< 1260514277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just telling him where it is.
< 1260514287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm unable to spot it. I even read it aloud
< 1260514302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed the grammar isn't really wrong, it's just a really weird way to reference the puns
< 1260514306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1260514310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I see it
< 1260514313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT bad?
< 1260514313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First 103 samples: http://pastebin.com/m34f18f81
< 1260514318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH
< 1260514323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intended right
< 1260514341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260514344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addressing someone as "the problem" might not be very polite
< 1260514351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "no pun intended" is a standard phrase
< 1260514359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why is the perl script so slow?
< 1260514366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even fungot seems faster
< 1260514369 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, we must emphasise civilian missions, in which respect for the state to protect citizens against serious crimes, including terrorism, if those conditions are met, production methods could be used to raise funds. i am opposed to short-term growth and in favour of the well-prepared report by my friend and fellow member, mr berenguer fuster is: should mobile telephone suppliers not be treated less favourably
< 1260514379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, everyone who's serious about performance uses Funge-98 nowadays.
< 1260514396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260514438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, timing please?
< 1260514440 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, our rapporteurs have centred their considerations both on the part of my portfolio but more particularly because an accurate analysis of the many obstacles we have experienced many times in this house, not to be the only indicator used. we need to adopt them, because those of us who live in europe, despite the pledges of financial support for their survival.
< 1260514441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260514447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you are usually faster IME
< 1260514448 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we are unfortunately witnessing the phenomenon of the new powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction of coins and notes. it seems that it is only transitional, and this change has taken and which has undergone one civil war and human rights.
< 1260514458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, 0.4 lag here
< 1260514459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl script is more clever when it comes to punctuation (maintains a stack of things that need be closed), but I doubt that's a major contribution.
< 1260514461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260514526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 the amsterdam
< 1260514527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260514543 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260514558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, " 1 commission. (de)"?
< 1260514572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a preprocessing problem somewhere.
< 1260514575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, so how do you feel?
< 1260514577 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mr president, that the way forward in this matter is still being discussed. i doubt whether anyone here would support it. finally on foreign policy and in the green paper expressly states and that the establishment of a european tourist agency necessary from every point of view, i am extremely disappointed to see that there is no monitoring, or at first reading between what is state aid which is not fully functioning,
< 1260514621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1260514622 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1260514624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct
< 1260514624 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
< 1260514634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sword alone can't stop!
< 1260514643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was waiting for that comment
< 1260514656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, however you need to highlight it
< 1260514658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many for m
< 1260514659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me*
< 1260514679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can the sword alone stop?
< 1260514679 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much!
< 1260514690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, really?
< 1260514691 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
< 1260514705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter life span?
< 1260514706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the second time fungot's done "we are looking to achieve a shorter life span"
< 1260514707 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the masamune!
< 1260514708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unusual
< 1260514721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's what Gaspar says if you try to use the bucket in End of Time.
< 1260514725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we flagged it as unusual the first time and discussed it for a while
< 1260514730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube
< 1260514731 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
< 1260514732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1260514741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: see if you can make the comments more intelligible than they were before, it shouldn't be hard
< 1260514742 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then he said it looks absolutely nothing like this. jealousy? ( i can't wait for this plane 3 of the airfield, such as ' the tv is talking about.
< 1260514748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Only go there if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you to leave this mortal coil." Or something like that, I don't have the text here.
< 1260514763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260514790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: again again! again again!
< 1260514790 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since 1988, air france 296
< 1260514827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLD MAN: That Gate leads to 1999 A.D... It leads to the "Day of Lavos"... Go there only if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you leave this mortal coil.
< 1260514855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't so far off.
< 1260514987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's so fun to talk to
< 1260514988 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please check your facts before spouting off their mouths. air france entry on wikipedia for all!
< 1260514993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently not
< 1260514994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, out of a sample of N=239, 64.0 % start with "mr president,", 12.1 % with "madam president," and the highest single other possibilities are around 1.3 %.
< 1260515113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: calm down!
< 1260515114 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when they threw the guy who wrote the game, but it was
< 1260515134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld
< 1260515134 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books)
< 1260515137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This style seems prone of stopping in the middle of something.
< 1260515138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ?
< 1260515140 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lord mcsweeney nodded. ' take it, please.'
< 1260515142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/This/That/
< 1260515155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that being discworld?
< 1260515163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, take what?
< 1260515164 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the sky was full of little fnord, forested country of lancre.
< 1260515164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being Youtube.
< 1260515175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sky full of lancre
< 1260515179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fun
< 1260515191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I thought lancre was mainly mountainous?
< 1260515192 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a wave submerged brutha. for a while. the audience watched in fascinated silence. quarney nodded mutely.
< 1260515202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260515211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has lots of forests too, presumably they're on the mountains
< 1260515226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes
< 1260515244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lots of little fnords.
< 1260515247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION digs out that lancre map
< 1260515272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountains, sky, close enough
< 1260515330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord
< 1260515394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, "mr president-in-office" is also one way to start.
< 1260515441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should add hitchhikers guide to the galaxy in there
< 1260515460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I try? I thought I tried. Maybe I didn't.
< 1260515467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rare?
< 1260515502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was a bit bored of books at that point. They all sound more or less the same, except of course not at all.
< 1260515512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes it is rather unusual to hold two concurrent conversations with one person in real life. Yet it happens all the time on irc
< 1260515529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 instances in ~300 or so.
< 1260515531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not all the time
< 1260515542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, but often enough that I notice
< 1260515571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is often enough?
< 1260515581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, really
< 1260515586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I do it with ehird, or did
< 1260515596 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260515598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1260515616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wonder when he will tell what the issue is
< 1260515617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unfortunately, this decision has to be developed without at the same time, so it will be hard to be sure of that, it will be difficult." The form of politics-speak, the bot does grok it.
< 1260515649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from europarl?
< 1260515655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260515671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it sounds incoherent certainly
< 1260515702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there is no shortage of those in many member states of the union to have a greater proportion of elderly people who are treated with suspicion. this must not be the reasons that i have worked a lot with this."
< 1260515715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's good that we're not short of elderly people to treat with suspicion.
< 1260515751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, especially since it results in lots of work for politicians it seems
< 1260515831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha. "i support a strong political message to european citizens, who are often harmed by them."'
< 1260515848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An honest politician, how refreshing.
< 1260515865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1260516382 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@174-137-229-165.ip.tor.radiant.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260516722 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260517106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260517409 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260517429 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260518255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260518399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260518400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260520494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m6f85b8d for the whole set of 1000. So around 60.7 % chance, according to this particular test.
< 1260521625 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260521980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what percentage of the source data sentences start with "mr president"?
< 1260522125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left work already, in a bus now.
< 1260522150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *should* be a very similar percentage.
< 1260522278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes
< 1260522292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may not have used the full europarl corpus for the training, though.
< 1260522309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from fizzie: 2.22 second(s)
< 1260522311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice lag
< 1260522326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are aware of that you are marked away?
< 1260522425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess he went away
< 1260522431 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260522431 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260522586 0 :ais523!n=ais523@cpc2-king8-0-0-cust831.perr.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260522635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AirCastle
< 1260522816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, your tab-complete has got screwed up
< 1260522826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed
< 1260522828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistab
< 1260522829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily that's unlikely to hurt me, as I rarely need to tab-complete my /own/ name...
< 1260522841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's weird to not be first in alphabetical order
< 1260522848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact I highlight last spoken
< 1260522854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not an issue once you spoke
< 1260522865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming this AirCastle doesn't speak after you
< 1260522875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CallForJudgement
< 1260522880 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's simplify it for everyone else
< 1260522883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, har har
< 1260522895 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you laughing?
< 1260522895 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this /is/ my nick...
< 1260522896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, now my nick column is too wide
< 1260522900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is worse
< 1260522904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, it is?
< 1260522908 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits just fine in mine
< 1260522911 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, ask NickServ
< 1260522921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, seems so completely not you
< 1260522923 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on callforjudgement (account ais523):
< 1260522924 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Aug 26 13:16:53 2009 (15 weeks, 2 days, 03:53:37 ago)
< 1260522930 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nomic term
< 1260522933 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it seem more me now?
< 1260522939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260522962 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with this nick I can sit here sorting out arguments via deus ex machina
< 1260522964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are ais[0-9]+[_`]?
< 1260522975 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never suffixed ` to my nick
< 1260522981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, sure?
< 1260522985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1260522992 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually ais523, ais523_+ when necessary to avoid clashes
< 1260522992 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais532 when I typo
< 1260522999 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 524 occasionally, for nick puns
< 1260523026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, I think 1064 happened once
< 1260523031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a 534 pun
< 1260523036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, someone did *= 2
< 1260523049 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been 1046, surely?
< 1260523060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah
< 1260523066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typoed when I calculated it
< 1260523070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I entered 532
< 1260523073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 523
< 1260523109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement = sqrt(-ais523)
< 1260523116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what will happen
< 1260523119 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1260523124 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that was easy
< 1260523126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1260523847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost tab-AirCastled earlier today.
< 1260524156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 63045 comments of the Europarl data, 28954 match "grep -i '^mr president'".
< 1260524182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's significantly less than 60 %, but on the other hand I don't really remember at this point what my training set was.
< 1260524562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's quite a pile of whitespace, too. The bit more robust '^[^a-z]*mr president' is matched by 34372 lines.
< 1260525322 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260526147 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, on my way to making my IRC bot in an esoteric language!
< 1260526247 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which?
< 1260526531 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zetaplex
< 1260527728 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260530132 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260530349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny opposite of typo: I read "google fu trends"
< 1260530355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead of flu)
< 1260531498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, nice order url: https://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/labyrinth.cgi
< 1260531509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a web shop
< 1260531511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(books)
< 1260531546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :labyrinth.cgi well yeah, their order system is in fact unusually easy to navigate
< 1260532178 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260532282 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532287 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532376 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532376 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532376 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532376 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532376 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532612 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532612 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532612 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532612 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532612 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532617 0 :`Fuco``!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532671 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532671 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532671 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532768 0 :_MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532842 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260532909 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532909 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532917 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260532917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260533289 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260533324 0 :_MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260533392 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260533441 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260533467 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260534399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first part of a Haskell expression: ["ais523","ais569","ais661","ais707","ais753","ais799","ais891","ais937","ais983","ais29","ais121","ais167","ais213","ais259","ais351","ais397","ais443","ais489","ais581","ais627","ais673","ais719"
< 1260534407 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continue the sequence.
< 1260534434 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that there is indisputably only one way to continue that sequence that makes sense.
< 1260534485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there isn't.
< 1260534499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding an infinite number of []s to the list also makes sense.
< 1260534529 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it doesn't make nearly as much sense.
< 1260534536 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260534536 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260534536 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260534737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"checking whether to build shared libraries... no\nchecking whether to build shared libraries... yes"
< 1260534741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, autoconf?
< 1260534838 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish test
< 1260534846 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more sweedbot?
< 1260534850 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^swedish test
< 1260534859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will end up with some sort of schroedi-libs that are and are not built at the same time.
< 1260534906 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260534941 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1260535586 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260535747 0 :Wh1teWolf!n=Wh1teWol@77.18.68.250.tmi.telenormobil.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536327 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536327 0 :AirCastle!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536327 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536327 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536329 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536331 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536331 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536331 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260536415 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437611.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :AirCastle!i=inhahe@adsl-074-186-083-219.sip.mia.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260536559 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260537778 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260537814 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260537826 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1260538449 0 :`Fuco``!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538449 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538603 0 :mu!n=mu@adsl-155-100-7.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538609 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6
< 1260538637 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538642 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One thing's for sure: until you have a backup strategy of some kind, you're screwed, you just don't know it yet. If backing up your data sounds like a hassle, that's because it is. Shut up. I know things. You will listen to me. Do it anyway." —Coding Horror
< 1260538645 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260538664 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did ehird come in here just to give us a Coding Horror quote?
< 1260538675 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538675 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538675 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538676 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260538687 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538689 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Coding Horror experienced 100% data loss at our hosting provider, CrystalTech."
< 1260538696 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I did a complete (full for some things, incremental for others, but complete combined with previous backups) backup yesterday
< 1260538702 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehirdiphone
< 1260538704 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow
< 1260538709 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "backups"? On the same VPS.
< 1260538713 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1260538725 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing of value was lost.
< 1260538745 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have (very recent) backups on a USB stick, (also very recent) backups on the same drive that they're backing up (insurance against accidental rms)
< 1260538750 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, less recent ones on other computers
< 1260538755 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260538772 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms, famous data bandit
< 1260538804 0 :`Fuco``!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538804 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538804 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538807 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't backup at all.
< 1260538811 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538821 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ugh, not even incidentally?
< 1260538834 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. when you copy data from one computer to another, do you always delete the original?
< 1260538856 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never lost anything apart from some ripped music. Easy to rip again.
< 1260538863 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: lol
< 1260538900 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Eso os idea; that
< 1260538915 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what computational class brainfuck with only >, but with bounded memory and an extra instruction to add one memory slot to the memory would have
< 1260538916 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better if you can make it perfectly atomic
< 1260538921 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its replaced by a symlink to the location
< 1260538922 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538927 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a power cut will cause the entire file to always be on either one computer, or the other
< 1260538928 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the memory would wrap when it reaches the end
< 1260538931 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when copying over a network
< 1260538945 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably /some/ way to do that, although I'm not sure
< 1260538954 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Minimax did that iirc ask CallForJudgement
< 1260538967 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538969 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260538969 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiniMAX isn't quite the same
< 1260538977 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bf thing
< 1260538977 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it supports arbitrary-sized > and <
< 1260538977 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1260538985 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BF thing isn't what FireFly describes either
< 1260538985 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was translated into it
< 1260538994 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's still interesting
< 1260539001 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260539001 0 :`Fuco``!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260539001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260539001 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260539010 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, clearly what FireFly says is TC, because you can compile arbitrary coprime DownRight programs into it
< 1260539024 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, DownRight is an esolang that is not vaporware, just I haven't put it on the wiki yet
< 1260539050 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260539050 0 :`Fuco``!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260539050 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260539050 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260539052 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor told anyone
< 1260539070 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the name was obsolete really quickly because it really doesn't matter if you can move up and left too
< 1260539075 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you plan writing something on the wiki about it?
< 1260539088 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point
< 1260539090 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye for now
< 1260539093 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"
< 1260539093 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1260539105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds similar to what I described, but 2D-ish
< 1260539107 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the issue is that it's rather close to Bitwise Cyclic Tag, in that it trivially round-trips
< 1260539244 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple of hypotheses I have to do with it, though
< 1260539269 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can come up with a few variants of it, one of which I think but don't know is sub-TC
< 1260539273 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then one is clearly TC
< 1260539304 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sub-TC"?
< 1260539307 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one is clearly also TC, but feels sort-of super-TC in that I can't figure out any way to compile existing programs into it while using all the features
< 1260539314 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, Oh, and to answer a question penned by AnMaster yesterday: Yudkowsky is one of the forefront singularitarians and rationalists. <-- well yes I know. Still doesn't explain why he has been mentioned a lot recently. For example: Why then has not Knuth been mentioned as much?
< 1260569810 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260569885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzien900 <-- I read that as fizzien 900 rather than fizzie n900 first. I quite like the sound of "fizzien"
< 1260570283 0 :immibis!n=immibis@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260573377 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260574209 0 :immibis!n=immibis@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260574627 0 :AirCastle!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260575003 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260575364 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think I mentioned his name because I vaguely remembered ehird saying something offensive about him.
< 1260577305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 ISIHAC
< 1260577378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still here?
< 1260577684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260577852 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260578724 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-88-95.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260579150 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260579429 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260580372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, now I am
< 1260580383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Partway throu
< 1260580389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*through Unseen Academicals now
< 1260580390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, when you said that however I was away getting a haircut
< 1260580396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1260580424 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :book is thoroughly awesome
< 1260580425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ISIHAC?
< 1260580435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm Sorry I Haven't A CLue
< 1260580449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to locate context of that
< 1260580458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails to do so
< 1260580479 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_Sorry_I_Haven%27t_a_Clue
< 1260580490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, as in "why did you mentioned it"
< 1260580500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because I was listening to it
< 1260580503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260580523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was right around when "Milk, milk, lemonade" was concluded with "Triple vodka, you get laid."
< 1260580525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, conclusion: you live in UK?
< 1260580530 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: negatory
< 1260580538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this neat thing called the Internet
< 1260580540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, web radio?
< 1260580547 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap
< 1260580557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... was I going for 'yep' or 'yeah' there?
< 1260580638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think I have an answer to that?
< 1260580654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, I'm not 100% on what the big change in UA to which you were referring is
< 1260580665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I have a guess, and it involves a capitalized pronoun
< 1260580682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my runner-up involves an empty chair
< 1260580683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, huh? It should be clear really early on
< 1260580689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes empty chairs
< 1260580690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260580704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... it's a change, but it didn't seem earth-shattering to me
< 1260580715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260580718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, we got Doctor Hix.
< 1260580726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, he showed up in an earlier book
< 1260580729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making Money iirc?
< 1260580740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but he wasn't nearly as important
< 1260580750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your unappreciated comments are appreciated."
< 1260580759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1260580810 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like the DoPMC is new... I think it was referenced at least as far back as... uh... whichever one they had to talk to the dead guy in
< 1260580826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember what book that was
< 1260580911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guards! Guards!, maybe?
< 1260580939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, huh? Which dead guy?
< 1260580948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an old wizard
< 1260580953 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's kept in a bottle, IIRC
< 1260580958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wasn't that making money?
< 1260580959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again
< 1260580977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about golems
< 1260580982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, possibly
< 1260580993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so though, because I'd probably remember it better if it was a recent one
< 1260581024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... according to the wiki, it was only Making Money. Huh.
< 1260581745 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260581907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260582190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260583682 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260588449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "fizzien" would be the Finnish genetive case; the same as English "fizzie's" would be.
< 1260588488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260588518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzien toisiaan villisti
< 1260588560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what does that mean?
< 1260588566 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260588574 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260588576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzing each other like crazy
< 1260588594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1260589390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it could also be some other cases; like the active instructive second infinitive of a verb ("by means of" / "while in the act of" -- like fi:juosta = to run, fi:liikkua = to move, fi:"liikkua juosten" => "to move by running"), instead of the genetive case of a noun. That was just what I judged most likely.
< 1260589522 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260589532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just the accusative of the noun "fizzie"; "I bought a fizzie" => "ostin fizzien".
< 1260589532 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260589701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should disconnect that thing, it'll drop when I get off the wlan soon anyway.
< 1260589851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260589920 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-252.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260589925 0 :fizzien900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I doubt it would seamlessly transition from my private wlan to 3G, given that the IP changes and all.
< 1260590074 0 :fizzien900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"off you go"
< 1260592693 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the guy next to me in the train has a N900 too. :p
< 1260592710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/next/opposite/
< 1260592832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, should get off the train too and not just play with the toy. ->
< 1260593371 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260594757 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260597678 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260598017 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260599439 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260599636 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260600205 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260600246 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260600619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc
< 1260600946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi there. I was away. Thus I didn't notice you join
< 1260600967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me which theme it was?
< 1260600974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espionage
< 1260600977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1260601808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm this issue makes no sense
< 1260601827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sense makes no issue
< 1260601830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either gcc is mishanding volatile or I'm doing something incorrect.
< 1260601835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects the latter
< 1260604286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260604799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260604800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260605879 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260605879 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606104 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606104 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606105 0 :`Fuco``!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606145 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded
< 1260606200 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606561 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606614 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606614 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606614 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606614 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260606676 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1260606790 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260606836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260606976 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260606985 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260607531 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260607531 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260607531 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260608170 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260609091 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-251.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260609132 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260609149 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1260609417 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-99-182.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260609774 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260609775 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260610285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not that this is so interesting, but I put some pictures taken with the new phone into http://zem.fi/g2/v/Mobile/20091212/ -- it's not too shabby, but the full-size images show pretty clearly that it is definitely not a real camera.
< 1260610373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The automatic image-sharing/upload tools are nice, though. Except that I forgot to change the default, and therefore it ripped out the GPS location exif tags from those images. Oh well.)
< 1260610391 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about Finnish.
< 1260610408 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' suomi.
< 1260610444 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a Uralic language.
< 1260610671 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about Dutch instead.
< 1260610731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this what they call a diss?
< 1260610781 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't tell you.
< 1260610818 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260610823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you're reading about germanic languages, just read about English.
< 1260610942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that gallery is quite broken
< 1260610953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the images on the main page are stretched
< 1260610967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it seems so
< 1260610990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it looks like they are slightly stretched and somewhat cropped
< 1260611318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try reloading.
< 1260611333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It seems to get confused generating the rescaled images sometimes. They looked just fine when I browsed through it.
< 1260611517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, definitely cropped now
< 1260611524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fit in a square
< 1260611528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show a screenshot?
< 1260611532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that they are.
< 1260611541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it's supposed to do.
< 1260611553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for the thumbnails, that is.
< 1260611640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :batch command experienced an execution error
< 1260611646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very helpful of gimp
< 1260612064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, we visited the cafe on that there island, and it was about closing time, and there was beginning some sort of private event; when going out, I sneaked a peek through the door, and someone had set up a projector, and on the first slide of the PowerPoint (or some-such) presentation the title was "42" and the subtitle was "The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything".
< 1260612077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made me very curious as to what sort of an event it was.
< 1260612101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1260612104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also present a Finnish sort-of celebrity you probably don't know.
< 1260612134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uunisaari, the place those photos I linked to (about 20 comments ago) were taken.
< 1260612764 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260613352 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260613369 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but I already know a lot about English.
< 1260613458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260613502 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declension: -s. Conjugation: -s -ing -ed.
< 1260613556 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260613672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, learn Swedish maybe?
< 1260613714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout Yola.
< 1260613735 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I considered Swedish once.
< 1260613740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, and?
< 1260613763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he concluded that he's not a pirate yargh.
< 1260613764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260613816 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't attempted to learn it.
< 1260613830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't get the joek
< 1260613832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke*
< 1260613839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe that is because I'm Swedish.
< 1260613843 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a lot of y-like vowels.
< 1260613857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, is that y like in English y?
< 1260613865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: "huh?"
< 1260613891 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by y, I mean [y], like in the Swedish word "syl".
< 1260613914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, What other vowels would be similar in your opinion?
< 1260613978 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ø], like "nöt", and [ʏ], like "syll".
< 1260613987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err ö and y are very different
< 1260613995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syll and syl yes
< 1260613998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are similar
< 1260614003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ö is very very very different
< 1260614031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, completely different sound for ö and y
< 1260614074 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How different would you say the sounds in the English words "dress" and "lot" are?
< 1260614082 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely different?
< 1260614107 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmm, I wonder if I'm just asking this as an excuse to feel elite.
< 1260614121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, very different at least. They are certainly closer than the vowels in "dress" and "say" though
< 1260614143 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260614155 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would help, of course, if I actually heard Swedish spoken.
< 1260614163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, don't have a microphone
< 1260614172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have one, but it isn't working
< 1260614186 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I shouldn't worry about the pronunciation for now, since I don't plan on actually speaking it any time soon.
< 1260614188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, there are Swedish news broadcasts from the public service radio on their website
< 1260614189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sr.se
< 1260614224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the difference between "anden" and "anden" is much funnier though
< 1260614225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtfbbq
< 1260614246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_phonology#Stress_and_pitch
< 1260614253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Say' shares a vowel with 'dress', although it is then proceeded by a different one.
< 1260614264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what?
< 1260614282 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not in broad transcriptions.
< 1260614291 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The long 'a' sound is a short 'e' (eh) followed by a long 'e' (ee)
< 1260614292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that's one STRANGE dialect
< 1260614305 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/eÉŞ/ versus /É›/.
< 1260614306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm assuming RP here
< 1260614319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming Gerneal American :P
< 1260614324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the reason that I speak it :P
< 1260614329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which I have no clue how to speak
< 1260614329 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, I'd say that /dɹɛs/ and /lɒt/ are about as different as one-syllable words can be :-P
< 1260614366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say "dress" and "boot" are more different
< 1260614372 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you sure it's not /lat/?
< 1260614375 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really tell.
< 1260614389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how are you measuring the difference
< 1260614397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily
< 1260614399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the vowels that are farthest apart on the vowel chart are /i/ and /É’/
< 1260614404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonetic hamming distance
< 1260614405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun
< 1260614425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, I'd say /lat/ is very different.
< 1260614428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roughly the vowels in "Eeyore".
< 1260614449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm... EEOR
< 1260614450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Hell, "hot" is even an example on Wikipedia's É’ page ;-)
< 1260614451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what the hell does "Eeyore" mean? And how is it pronounced?
< 1260614457 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my accent doesn't distinguish between /a/ and /É’/.
< 1260614469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe you know of I-or
< 1260614471 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Eeyore is the name of a character in the Winnie the Pooh franchise.
< 1260614481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah right
< 1260614490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and EEOR is a mountain
< 1260614491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, is that the English spelling?
< 1260614495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is.
< 1260614498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or part of one, to be exact
< 1260614502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually it is "Ior" in Swedish iirc
< 1260614504 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah.
< 1260614505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "I-or"
< 1260614522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pronounced /iËÉ”r/ or something.
< 1260614526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wikipedia sez I-or
< 1260614533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's where I got it from)
< 1260614543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, strange
< 1260614565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to locate the book and gives up
< 1260614571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy
< 1260614703 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays measures 26 through 29 of Opus 11.
< 1260614733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, opus 11 by Gregor?
< 1260614750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, didn't you make extra-www?
< 1260614751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, is uorygl actually Warrigal?
< 1260614754 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah
< 1260614765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why is codu not redirecting to www.www.codu.org?
< 1260614776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [uorygl] (n=warrie@lunch.normish.org): Tanner Swett
< 1260614781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not unlikely?
< 1260614787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would explain some stuff
< 1260614793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because I made www.www.extra-www.org doesn't mean I think it's a good idea :P
< 1260614825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, most things gets funnier by taking it seriously
< 1260614828 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260614831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is definitely such a case
< 1260614853 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Gregor's.
< 1260614869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking www.www.codu.org ... does not redirect
< 1260614869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: socket_read() [function.socket-read]: unable to read from socket [104]: Connection reset by peer in /var/www/extra-www/validator.php on line 83
< 1260614869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Checking www.codu.org ... redirects to /WfXZN/
< 1260614878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think it is broken
< 1260614879 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what stuff would it explain?
< 1260614891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you?
< 1260614899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops ...
< 1260614903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to check that some time.
< 1260614923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, to vague. Try again for the time spec
< 1260614924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1260614985 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, no-www.org mentions extra-www.org.
< 1260615004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, old
< 1260615064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just love that yes-www.org is gone but extra-www.org is still alive :P
< 1260615214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, indeed
< 1260615217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also old
< 1260615252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrote a simple two ball pong
< 1260615286 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260615288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? becuase why not overdo any assignment you get at university (this was supposed to be introduction to graphical programming)
< 1260615314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and they are antialiased, use double buffering, and alpha channel to make the balls show up easily even when on top of each other
< 1260615364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, I couldn't get page flipping to work :/
< 1260615675 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260615885 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to overdo my university assignments, but I ended up not doing them at all.
< 1260615910 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, quoth my professor: "You could be getting an A in this class, and I don't know whether you're getting a C or a D."
< 1260615948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ouch
< 1260615954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how stupid
< 1260615989 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's stupid--me, my behavior, the professor, what the professor said, the professor's not knowing, or the system?
< 1260616012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, your behaviour if you were capable of better
< 1260616080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches the nice effects of drawing something very fast moving (balls speeding up too much between static paddles)
< 1260616119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add a cap
< 1260616328 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should produce motion blur using a low-pass filter.
< 1260616365 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure it's a theoretically perfect one.
< 1260616452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well the speeds I was hitting was making the LCD show several balls at once
< 1260616465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also just get a crappy enough lcd and you will get something similar
< 1260616481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop certainly shows something similar
< 1260616483 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's why you use motion blur instead.
< 1260616498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh and I'm using allegro. That is what the assignment was about
< 1260616508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it will be highly non-trivial in that
< 1260616529 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. You'll need to extend Allegro to support motion blur. :-P
< 1260616538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny
< 1260616551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ever coded with allegro? It is so portable it still supports DOS.
< 1260616565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various weird colour formats
< 1260616592 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1260616608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, in fact it's docs suggests "truecolor pixel formats" is something non-standard
< 1260616613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and yes it is actively developed
< 1260616628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me why
< 1260616633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is rather easy to use
< 1260616647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing with, say, opengl
< 1260616650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pain
< 1260616656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for 2D drawing
< 1260616697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, in fact allegro doesn't even support antialias in the current stable version. The development version which uses opengl as a backend does however.
< 1260616735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, So for antialiased balls in pong, I'm using a sprite created in gimp and saved as tga
< 1260616741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with alpha channel
< 1260616746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't support loading png
< 1260616908 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437611.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260617449 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260617540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know a service that will run authoritative nameservers for a domain for cheap/free?
< 1260617662 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Google has one.
< 1260617677 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do?
< 1260617684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1260617702 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not the authoritative part... I dunno.. hang on, like to come!
< 1260617707 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260617721 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a service that will run authoritative servers
< 1260617729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just random dns
< 1260617735 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/intl/sv-SE/speed/public-dns/
< 1260617752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/intl/sv-SE/speed/public-dns/faq.html#hosting
< 1260617776 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Sorry.
< 1260618248 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260618348 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use editdns.net
< 1260618622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's freedns.afraid.org
< 1260618715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260619064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, run bind on your own server
< 1260619076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I need a server with 100% uptime
< 1260619078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also many places you buy domains from provide dns server for you
< 1260619084 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as close to it as possible
< 1260619086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this domain
< 1260619090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, forget freedns.afraid.org then
< 1260619096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had uptime issues with them before
< 1260619125 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the requirements for registering the domain; you have to make sure that there are two nameservers that remain up
< 1260619160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try another registrar that provides dns servers
< 1260619177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ro only has one registrar
< 1260619189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, why on earth .ro?
< 1260619192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copp.ro
< 1260619201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260619210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the registration policy is wonderful. One-time fee.
< 1260619216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, whoa
< 1260619227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now known as AnMastor
< 1260619234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260619236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now known as AnMastro
< 1260619237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMastro?
< 1260619242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260619247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaestro
< 1260619258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the thought *did* cross my mind
< 1260619264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wasn't sure what language that was
< 1260619283 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.al only allows registering .com.al, etc. :(
< 1260619298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what country (if any) .er is
< 1260619311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, you could change your nick to Aszcomal?
< 1260619316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Eritrea
< 1260619326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I won't go for that
< 1260619342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and .nt?
< 1260619347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't exist
< 1260619350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260619360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do reserve the right to start charging an annual fee though
< 1260619364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ro is romania or something?
< 1260619370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1260619370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1260619468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, once the assignment is sent in and such I will probably put that pong game up somewhere. I guess I could offer a binary for 64-bit linux now if anyone is interested.
< 1260619561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| .
< 1260619593 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260619612 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260619640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260619717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the late, but there are at least several that can do the hidden-primary-DNS setup: their servers work technically as secondaries, with zone transfers from your primary, but you only put the secondaries into the TLD registry, so that it doesn't matter if your primary server is up only randomly.
< 1260619795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everydns.net does free primary too.
< 1260619812 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260619838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, fizzie had the solution to your DNS issue above
< 1260619849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is the late, but there are at least several that can do the hidden-primary-DNS setup: their servers work technically as secondaries, with zone transfers from your primary, but you only put the secondaries into the TLD registry, so that it doesn't matter if your primary server is up only randomly.
< 1260619849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think everydns.net does free primary too.
< 1260619850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | . <-- what was that about
< 1260619871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1260619873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMno3Zg/pong.tar.gz if anyone cares. Needs liballegro.so.4.2
< 1260619880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled on ubuntu jaunty
< 1260619882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused by what fizzie said
< 1260619919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it seems I included the xcf for those tga. Not that that matters.
< 1260619956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 16 K instead of uh .... 16 K ‽‽‽
< 1260620003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what it boils down to, assuming you don't want to run a DNS server at all, is that everydns.net is one provider that does completely free "full" DNS. (I have no idea how freely their DNS zone editor allows you to do things, though.)
< 1260620006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh forgot -b to du
< 1260620074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1260620186 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260620211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least based on the nic.ro site, it looks as if one can only register .ro domains in the .co.ro, .ne.ro and .or.ro "top-level" subdomains, but what-the-ever.
< 1260620253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're just confusing, given how many plain .ro domains there seem to be.
< 1260620256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anyone tries that pong, please do mention it)
< 1260620356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess rotld.ro is the new page and that's just some old relic. Funny, usually "nic.tld" tends to give at least something sensible.
< 1260620383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though now that I look, seems that a completely arbitrary Finnish ISP has gone and registered nic.fi, so...)
< 1260620475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.fi has a similar "you must have at least two nameservers online or you might lose the domain" condition, with automatical sanity checks, but they do give you lots of time to correct any problems. (And you have to live in Finland too, unlike .ro.)
< 1260621157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it seems like ompload urls are hashes, I uploaded the same file twice by mistake and got the same url back
< 1260621389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay new url. And I would actually be interested in what people think about playability of http://omploader.org/vMno3cg/pong.tar.gz since it has two balls in play
< 1260621398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant for two physical players at the computer btw
< 1260621483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it is quite fun for a single player too, trying to keep both balls in the air at once
< 1260621500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at Deewiant
< 1260621504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use 64-bit linux iirc
< 1260621508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit me with a Windows binary.
< 1260621521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, give me a C99 compiler for windows that works
< 1260621526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260621537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I thought you were on linux
< 1260621540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems I misremembered
< 1260621563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your memory can't tell you what OS I'm in on a certain date at a certain time
< 1260621565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about you? 64-bit linux or not?
< 1260621581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit linux, but I don't run untrusted binaries. :p
< 1260621582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah that is what you think. hehehe
< 1260621596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like rebooting into Linux now so you'd need to hand me a Windows binary.
< 1260621602 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260621612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't have any windows compiling environment set up
< 1260621624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your problem, not mine. :-P
< 1260621627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so by the time I had that in vitualbox you would already be on linux
< 1260621630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there is only one of me, and I can't play pong against myself.
< 1260621642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I found it fun to try to keep both balls in air at once
< 1260621642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have two hands don't you?
< 1260621651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but I'd lose!
< 1260621664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the keys are up/down and w/s
< 1260621672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esc to exit
< 1260621683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it says in the readme in the updated version
< 1260621684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Only if you can defeat yourself
< 1260621704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, single player variant: try to keep both scores as low as possible
< 1260621705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Inconvenient on non-qwerty.
< 1260621729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well okay I guess I could do up/down and left/right
< 1260621750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or I could make it configurable by command line parameter
< 1260621752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I guess you could do is make it configurable
< 1260621780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, need to convert it to scan code for allegro however
< 1260621854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for untrusted binary. hm. you could disassemble it and check that it doesn't call syscall directly and then see with nm -D what library functions it calls
< 1260621863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it doesn't self modify that is
< 1260621870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can see by it not calling mprotect
< 1260621876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mmap
< 1260621879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything like that
< 1260621885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have liballeg.so.4.2 anyway.
< 1260621886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dobelx64 doesn't call mprotect, but self-modifies :-P
< 1260621892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could upload that
< 1260621910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but you could look with readelf to see what it requests initially
< 1260621920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, still not interested. And I'm sure the liballeg.so.4.2 disassembly would be too long to read.
< 1260621927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260621936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you install allegro
< 1260621940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should include it
< 1260621950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no install allegro.
< 1260621955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kunde inte byta till graifkäget"; at least I ran it through strings.
< 1260621961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ä/lä/
< 1260621966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if/fi/
< 1260621986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie oops forgot to translate that. it is error message from failing to set up window
< 1260621990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 800x600
< 1260621996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes windowed mode
< 1260622000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION corrects that message
< 1260622010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I'm the useful.
< 1260622016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1260622069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you could just check my allegro library had same checksum as the ubuntu jaunty package one
< 1260622090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you just audited every line of disassembly ;P
< 1260622096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your whole linux system
< 1260622105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does fizzie trust the Ubuntu packages? :-P
< 1260622121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only trust Deewiant. (You have to trust *someone*.)
< 1260622124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a good Marble Drop-like game that I can play on Linux (e.g. Flash or native or something)
< 1260622135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Last I checked you didn't trust me enough to run CCBI
< 1260622149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then fizzie *is* paranoid
< 1260622168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also there is throwaway account and chroot
< 1260622170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful things
< 1260622178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust chroot. :p
< 1260622191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about virtualbox then
< 1260622191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How do you use IRC? Browse the web?
< 1260622214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I trust my browser but I don't trust my kernel. That is a bit silly.
< 1260622225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw. how long do you think downloading visual studio from msdnaa would take. Give or take a few years?
< 1260622236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep.
< 1260622238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what browser?
< 1260622245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't wine cross-compile using mingw?
< 1260622264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have no idea. And I never got mingw working even under windows so...
< 1260622274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not for more than basic hello world
< 1260622296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mingw is just fine for Windows binary-making; I used it to build Windows binaries of our group project-work for the OpenGL course.
< 1260622314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang should also be able to cross-compile with Winelib
< 1260622314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "3d graphics programming course with a OpenGL focus", to be more exact.
< 1260622316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you don't even need wine
< 1260622320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260622325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust pola-run.
< 1260622327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awesomesauce.
< 1260622337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably need Wine for any windows lib stuff
< 1260622348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a ready-made package for ubuntu for this?
< 1260622352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you need to run it
< 1260622354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has gotten lazy
< 1260622357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has it under the name "mingw32".
< 1260622361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Some link suggests that there is so for debian, at least
< 1260622363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about Ubuntu.
< 1260622380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Freedom through obsolescence. Those who still really need to can now build windows executables from the comfort of Debian." (To quote the package description.)
< 1260622384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is
< 1260622406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1260622419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you used it+
< 1260622422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/
< 1260622423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260622432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is it used?
< 1260622450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just overriding CC?
< 1260622454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least here it uses the "i586-mingw32msvc-" prefix.
< 1260622465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about windows dll stuff
< 1260622475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both mingw and msvc? What sense does that make?
< 1260622479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o blah.exe blah.c" for the minimal case.
< 1260622485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It means the msvc runtime libs.
< 1260622494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1260622509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you link to a .dll there
< 1260622514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you need some .lib
< 1260622519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and header files for it and such
< 1260622553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't remember how that works, sorry. The necessary bits for OpenGL were built-in, I think.
< 1260622560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260622583 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If allegro distributes a ready-built .lib as they most likely do, you can probably just link to that
< 1260622620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There might've been some conversion tool involved. At least the mingw32-runtime package libs have a .a extension.
< 1260622633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, of course mingw libs are .a
< 1260622642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster confused me with his .libness
< 1260622654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260622655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, it's quite likely that allegro distributes a mingw .a
< 1260622660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260622675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's admittedly more likely that they distribute only a .lib
< 1260622691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, there is the tool.
< 1260622698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# DMC -
< 1260622698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zip,
< 1260622698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7z,
< 1260622698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exe
< 1260622698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260622699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1260622702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260622703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail
< 1260622711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looked like one line originallyt
< 1260622714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for /flushq
< 1260622716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( no one answered my Marble Drop question
< 1260622718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it would have been worse
< 1260622752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything from dos, mingw to msvc 6 and msvc 9
< 1260622758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos and*
< 1260622769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use i586-mingw32msvc-dlltool to generate what you need for linking against a DLL, but not sure.
< 1260622863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe. The main use case is to create DLLs.)
< 1260622900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is an a
< 1260622902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.a*
< 1260622910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's useful, then.
< 1260622949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is testing with wine atm
< 1260622952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they offer a mingw download then they will give everything you need.
< 1260622958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Error of failed request: GLXBadDrawable
< 1260622965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wasn't even using opengl
< 1260623120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try http://omploader.org/vMno4MA/pong-win32.tar.gz
< 1260623130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't work under wine giving opengl error
< 1260623138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it will work under real windows
< 1260623232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well did it work?
< 1260623260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are on windows you clearly can't be scared of binaries
< 1260623286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, however, be AFK on occasion
< 1260623296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh sorry
< 1260623317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work
< 1260623350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even uses my keyboard's s key instead of my keyboard layout's.
< 1260623366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh nice
< 1260623378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and the game itself? Works well?
< 1260623388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is always hard for the creator to tlel
< 1260623390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell*
< 1260623402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all I know exactly what it is supposed to do and exactly what I thought of testing
< 1260623440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does the circles show up as opaque or do they clearly have an alpha channel?
< 1260623467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can be seen when they cross each other easily)
< 1260623468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "clear" :-P
< 1260623473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1260623491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they can
< 1260623502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260623514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and how is the actual game play
< 1260623517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: add pause
< 1260623529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-tab is pause :-P
< 1260623536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it doesn't afaik?
< 1260623537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it?
< 1260623544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I'm very surprised
< 1260623551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because background doesn't pause it here
< 1260623560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May be an allegro quirk on windows.
< 1260623563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hey, since you're at it, do you want to test the Windows binaries of my game too?! It's just some two-three years late w.r.t. the returning of the project, but I'm sure it'd still be very useful to test. In some sort of hypothetical sense.
< 1260623590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says Mr. I Don't Trust Foreign Binaries :-P
< 1260623613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very funny
< 1260623633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh there seems to be a set_display_switch_mode I could call
< 1260623665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One minor flaw: the circle needs to touch the edge, not fly off it, to score a point
< 1260623700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you mean? That the circle should be allowed to pass a bit outside before it scores a point?
< 1260623712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be fully outside
< 1260623739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm is that the original pong behaviour? I haven't been able to find pong in ubuntu repos nor in portage
< 1260623769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ubuntu had a 3D pong thing
< 1260623773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thingy*
< 1260623783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original pong does the common trick of simply moving the paddles a bit inside the map instead of putting them at the very edge
< 1260623820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I do move them inside, by 5 pixels
< 1260623822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe too little
< 1260623833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they are 10 px wide
< 1260623839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I meant by at least the width of a circle :-)
< 1260623840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't worry, I can't find the windows binary at all.
< 1260623842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is actually 15 pixels inside that it is checking
< 1260623860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the original arcade pong it's more like 5 times the size of the ball
< 1260623868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm okay
< 1260623883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPkUvfL8T1I
< 1260623885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe half the size of it and allow it to pass half the way out
< 1260623890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a Makefile.win, though. I think it even includes an icon in the .exe.
< 1260623917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway hitting any place after half of it makes no sense (would only push it out further)
< 1260623932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so allowing it to pass exactly half of the paddle sounds like a good idea
< 1260623956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, it has no gameplay value beyond that point
< 1260623974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is downloading the video Deewiant linked to
< 1260623992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think it's prettier if it goes all the way instead of suddenly disappearing
< 1260624014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess there might be some multiplayer amusement involved in having somebody hit the ball further in
< 1260624068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would require me to rewrite my very simple ball bouncing code
< 1260624079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just checks where on the line that is the start of the paddle we hit
< 1260624103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260624107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get some strange effects as of now if you allowed hitting after half had passed
< 1260624151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just flip the sign of the x-velocity if it's past the paddle?
< 1260624155 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260624224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is very inellegantly played, why don't they just move to where the ball is
< 1260624233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game?
< 1260624239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPkUvfL8T1I
< 1260624254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a funny error.
< 1260624256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o ui.o ui.c -c -std=c99 -Wall -Werror -O2 -I.
< 1260624256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc1: warnings being treated as errors
< 1260624256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ui.c:254: warning: C99 inline functions are not supported; using GNU89
< 1260624266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you had it too?
< 1260624273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah I got loads of it
< 1260624359 0 :immibis!n=immibis@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260624370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh it does allow some strange pushing
< 1260624410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I predicted placing them further in would break stuff. It did but not the way I expected
< 1260624528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you actually *do* want to try out another Windows binary (are you bored or something?), http://zem.fi/~fis/bleh.zip
< 1260624549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is that game?
< 1260624564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikan_t%C3%A4hti
< 1260624571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a clone of it.
< 1260624592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? screeshot?
< 1260624601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some somewhere.
< 1260624720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this game is more complicated than the version I remember :-P
< 1260624730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Eh, well, here's a very fast screenshot, but it's not really showing up its best side: http://zem.fi/~fis/bleh.png
< 1260624745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a better side?
< 1260624766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe not. Though the gemstones you find aren't too shabby, I seem to remember.
< 1260624783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can also rotate and zoom with the cursor keys, that might not be immediately obvious.
< 1260624791 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260624800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was just about to ask if I can get a more zoomed-out view somehow :-)
< 1260624808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And there's a very realistic day/night cycle.
< 1260624874 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose I can change the camera pitch in any way?
< 1260624895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, no. But you can drag around the map with the left mouse button.
< 1260624903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll snap back to the fixed position when you let go. :p
< 1260624913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right mouse button, actually
< 1260624918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right.
< 1260624995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well fixed those issues
< 1260625012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and you can add a command line flag "-q 1" to get a lot nicer heightmap. :p
< 1260625014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I forget the mechanics: what can player A do if B has the star?
< 1260625033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can try to find a horseshoe and take that to one of the starting points before B gets the star there.
< 1260625035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oo, awesome. :-)
< 1260625057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In the sometimes-used house rules, you can also attack the other player, but that's highly nonstandard.
< 1260625059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't the nicer heightmap on by default
< 1260625067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/
< 1260625082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It wasn't fast enough on the school SGI O2 workstations this was demoed on. :p
< 1260625087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1260625141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260625150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had totally forgotten that -q flag, I just found it from the project report now.
< 1260625163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, source link (or 64-bit linux binary)
< 1260625171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default is "-q 4" which uses every fourth point from the heightmap.
< 1260625178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck playing it with all the text being in Finnish
< 1260625194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, meh good point
< 1260625197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so forget it
< 1260625217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't they use gettext()?
< 1260625219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1260625219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there isn't that much text
< 1260625224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, right. There's not *that* much text, though; I can give you a translation.
< 1260625228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not localized, no.
< 1260625228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err gettext _()
< 1260625229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1260625245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation would be nice yeah
< 1260625245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just using gettext wouldn't help much without, you know, the localizations.
< 1260625254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes
< 1260625303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/bleh.tar.gz might be a 64-bit linux binary; it needs that "data" subdir and it needs to be accessible so that fopen("data/foo") works. There was a bit of a deadline problem to do anything nice.
< 1260625332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also libglut.so.3.)
< 1260625355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the positive side, you can edit the .obj files in the data subdir to provide all new models.
< 1260625519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, updated pong btw to fix those issues: http://omploader.org/vMno4OQ/pong-win32.tar.gz
< 1260625524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The heightmap is bona fide real data, by the way. (The ground colors are not.)
< 1260625645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Cannot contact the database server: Can't connect to MySQL server on '10.0.6.32' (4) (10.0.6.32))" I don't think I've gotten that from Wikipedia earlier.
< 1260625896 0 :ais523_unidentif!i=5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/x-cakttddelbgfiumt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260625956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, hi there
< 1260625971 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260625978 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not my computer
< 1260625979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what about translations + linux binary or source?
< 1260625982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, ah
< 1260625985 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Windows computer that's probably full of malware
< 1260625991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, something wrong with your computer?
< 1260626000 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260626003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, oh what?
< 1260626006 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so wrong I can't use it
< 1260626010 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I left it at home
< 1260626016 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's pretty much falling apart
< 1260626017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, you have one at work iirc?
< 1260626021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, so get a new one
< 1260626022 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen is coming out from its frame, etc
< 1260626026 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to
< 1260626028 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just haven't yet
< 1260626029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great
< 1260626039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, what about the centos box at work?
< 1260626046 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's now a win7 box
< 1260626056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I already linked to a Linux binary. Let me see about translations.
< 1260626063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif, I thought it dual-booted?
< 1260626064 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the centos box had too many hardware issues
< 1260626069 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both dual-boot in theory
< 1260626075 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the win partition didn't work on the first
< 1260626080 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the linux partition doesn't work on the second
< 1260626082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260626729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/translate.txt has probably most of the strings in the game translated.
< 1260626804 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which game?
< 1260626843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif: Long story, are you sure you don't want to just check today's clog?
< 1260626863 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check it later; not particularly easy for me to do so now
< 1260626863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_unidentif: We've been having Deewiant work as a test monkey for windows binaries.
< 1260626871 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may be going home soon anyway
< 1260626876 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there might not be time for a long story as it is
< 1260626918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To summarize: it's a OpenGL version of a Finnish board game I (partially) did for the 3d graphics programming course a couple of years back.
< 1260626925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In 2005, apparently.)
< 1260626984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think I found a bug
< 1260626994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, someone can get stuck at the Canary islands
< 1260627008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 0 coins there
< 1260627015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is a well-known bug.
< 1260627017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't you be allowed to move two spaces
< 1260627028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just the heretical new rules.
< 1260627035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We don't roll that way.
< 1260627046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even lose the game for that player if he gets stuck? :-)
< 1260627053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NVIDIA: could not open the device file /dev/nvidiactl (Permission denied).
< 1260627053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeglut (./afrikka): Unable to create direct context rendering for window 'Afrikan t�hti'
< 1260627053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may hurt performance.
< 1260627057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why
< 1260627060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fast anyway
< 1260627063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with -g 1
< 1260627067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q 1
< 1260627071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260627089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah I meant that
< 1260627092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not sure. There's a "the game is now unwinnable" message in the sources.
< 1260627115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happens if the star is there, so at least you check for that much
< 1260627132 0 :Wh1teWolf!n=Wh1teWol@77.18.68.250.tmi.telenormobil.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260627173 0 :ais523_unidentif!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1260627377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can't really understand my logic here any more. I think I only toggle the unwinnable flag if the star has been found, a "thief" coin is uncovered, none of the remaining players have a star/horseshoe, and there are no horseshoes left in the map.
< 1260627395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So I think I don't check for the Canary Islands special cases.
< 1260627401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh.
< 1260627416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you keep track of horseshoes that have been found before the star?
< 1260627427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1260627427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no, that was in no way implied by what you said.
< 1260627498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules were written based on the physical copy of the game I have here, and that's from some time in the 1980s, and doesn't contain the special rule anyway.
< 1260627499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, where is egobot?
< 1260627526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice we don't even the skip the turns for the player who's stuck on the island; we simply ridicule him/her every time it's his/her turn.
< 1260627527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original rules certainly don't account for the special case :-)
< 1260627545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But can that player do anything?
< 1260627559 0 :Wh1teWolf!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260627574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If on the larger island, yes, you can walk from one end to another repeatedly. On the smaller island, not much.
< 1260627630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Looks like an upgrade broke it.
< 1260627633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fixfixfix*
< 1260627638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The game is at least clever enough to handle that case: if you have no options you can do, it always adds an "end turn" option to the sidebar.
< 1260627649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, good I need bf_txtgen NAO!
< 1260627653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1260627666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run the same bit of Java locally, you know.
< 1260627670 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260627678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "meh"
< 1260627687 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't egobot written in C?
< 1260627697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen !dlrow olleH
< 1260627704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1260627705 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 ++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>+++++++>+<<<<-]>+++.>.++++++++.++++++.---.++++++++.<-.>--------.---..-------.>++.>. [600]
< 1260627714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hej världen!
< 1260627717 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :186 +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++++++++<<<<-]>>>---.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.<++.>++++++++++++.>.-------------------------------.<----.------.--------.+.+++++++++.<+.<-----. [453]
< 1260627751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hepskukkuu maailmainen!
< 1260627754 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :182 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>.+++.<-----.>++.<..>..>++++.<--------.<<----..>--.>-.+.<<.>.>+.<----.>.>+.-----------------------. [471]
< 1260627755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: xD
< 1260627762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does that mean?
< 1260627765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world?
< 1260627769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world.
< 1260627771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, literal translation
< 1260627772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260627779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: I am under the impression that bf_txtgen is the same thing as that textgen.java from somewhere. Being written in C doesn't mean you couldn't run other processes.
< 1260627784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh "literal" as in "funnily broken"?
< 1260627806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, something like that
< 1260627815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++++++++<<<<-]>>>---.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.<++.>++++++++++++.>.-------------------------------.<----.------.--------.+.+++++++++.<+.<-----.
< 1260627816 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hej världen!.
< 1260627820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1260627826 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixxie: you're right, from looking at the source: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/1fe97d50a1d8/multibot_cmds/interps/bf_txtgen/textgen.java
< 1260627827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the extra dot there fizzie ^
< 1260627832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's the newline.
< 1260627841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260627847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++++>+++++++++++++<<<<-]>>>---.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.<++.>++++++++++++.>.-------------------------------.<----.------.--------.+.+++++++++.<+.
< 1260627847 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hej världen!
< 1260627907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X on voittaja!
< 1260627907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A winner is X!
< 1260627914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that really correct translation?
< 1260627924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1260627933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it literal one?
< 1260627937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it a*
< 1260627937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1260627952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it should have been "X won" basically
< 1260627953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260627954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X is a winner!" would possibly be more literal.
< 1260627959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260627962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "A winner is X" is the meme.
< 1260627968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah
< 1260627970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voittaja on X!
< 1260627976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's more "The winner is X"
< 1260627978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you could insert the strings in the binary
< 1260628011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are in multiple pieces.
< 1260628021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get close, I guess.
< 1260628048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, problem is length
< 1260628065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space-padding where needed, abbreviating the English also.
< 1260628090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't \0 padding work?
< 1260628103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or do you depend on fixed length?
< 1260628118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in most cases it would work right.
< 1260628125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :│ ...... db "Out of memory when allocating mesh vertex array (%s).\0" │
< 1260628134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do have English strings there
< 1260628142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the error messages are in English, yes.
< 1260628170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some "Impossible: X" ones too.
< 1260628229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terrain.map file in the data directory should be human-readable text too, if you want to customize it.
< 1260628259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of the node numbers do have special rules attached, though.)
< 1260628359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260628383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(14, 15 and 31.)
< 1260628406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't feel like distinguishing them? :-P
< 1260628429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The .map file format parsing and such were done in a relatively early stage of the project.
< 1260628438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The "game logic" part was done with the deadline looming.
< 1260628444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260628471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd show you the commit frequency from a "svn log", but "svn: Could not open the requested SVN filesystem"
< 1260628475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The repository must've moved.
< 1260628521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why you should always use a DVCS locally when using a school's CCVS system :-)
< 1260628544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I used a local CCVS system, it's just that the C has moved. :p
< 1260628557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah :-P
< 1260628649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've switched to a more DVCS-oriented way nowadays, but that was back then.
< 1260628715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is C there
< 1260628721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260628723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :central
< 1260628723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it centralized?
< 1260628738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably more like "center" in the "has moved" part.
< 1260628836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found quite a pile of SVN repositories, but none of them seem to contain that particular project.
< 1260628899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there it probably is.
< 1260629076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There actually aren't so many separate commits that it'd look impressive; but you can deduce something from the fact that the last commit was made at 2006-04-06 05:43:19, and that is indeed in the local time zone. As I remember it, we had the "return the project and demonstrate it to the course assistant" session booked for 2006-04-06 morning.
< 1260629400 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260629435 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders.
< 1260629450 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, .al is Albania.
< 1260629534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about .gl?
< 1260629547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenland
< 1260629554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was quasi-seriously considering "zzie.fi", actually.
< 1260629566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not .ie?
< 1260629596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ireland, like probably a majority of the ccTLDs, only sells domains if you live or have an office or have at least something to do with the country in question.
< 1260629610 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want .gl.
< 1260629619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least officially. Don't know what the actual practice is, but that's the regulation.
< 1260629647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have to ask my Albanian friend to register it for me.
< 1260629849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CcTLD list claims to have a * for all that allow foreign registration, though that's probably not kept religiously up-to-date.
< 1260629959 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260630031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, untranslated string: "kierroksella uudelleen"?
< 1260630063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"again on [a/the] round"
< 1260630105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's the second half of "Yritä seuraavalla".
< 1260630119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yritä seuraavalla kierroksella uudelleen" => "Try again on the next round" or some-such.
< 1260630443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you meant you didn't get things done well before the deadline?
< 1260630445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange
< 1260630454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always make sure to be done at least a week before
< 1260630476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming I as notified before a week in advance)
< 1260630548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am bad with deadlines and scheduling things.
< 1260630847 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260631344 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260631510 0 :FireyFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260631516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260631528 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly
< 1260631830 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260631836 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1260632040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, usually those flash-based "navigate our shop with this panorama picture" things do proper perspective correction, but this one somehow looks rather freaky, especially if you navigate around it: http://www.korkeavuorenkatu.fi/fin/panorama/faberart.htm
< 1260632181 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260632203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's just that it needs to be zoomed in so that the "natural" field-of-view of the picture matches at least a bit the field-of-view caused by the monitor.
< 1260632866 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260633180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is this hubert anyway
< 1260633239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hubert Farnsworth?
< 1260633258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260633280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait, haven't we done that already today?
< 1260633282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: didn't we already men
< 1260633293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "already men"?
< 1260633303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interrupted*
< 1260633307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260633322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you need to mark it by ... or something
< 1260633334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*never*
< 1260633340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why npot
< 1260633341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not*
< 1260633349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing you is the meaning of the universe, after all
< 1260633410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no
< 1260633413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the reverse
< 1260633425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, only not, sideways
< 1260633479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe likes shooting fish in barrels, clearly
< 1260633506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no I wouldn't say so
< 1260633517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, more like finishing barrels in shootguns
< 1260633532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he broke AnMaster
< 1260633546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wrong. Only dried frog
< 1260633555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1260633650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not at all
< 1260633658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that all but one google hit for "but tell me hubert" is for this channel
< 1260633675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this hubert about?
< 1260633682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :hubert who? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1260633700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the final one is harry potter fanfic :D
< 1260633708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1260633728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sex in it, if the introductory warning is to be believed
< 1260633740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1260633752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first in an irregular series of stories."
< 1260633768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we looking at shakespeare's work here?
< 1260633770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back listening to Swedish jazz
< 1260633785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some compilation of Swedish jazz
< 1260633787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice
< 1260633790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done, you've successfully described all internet fiction (fan fic or otherwise)
< 1260633807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: um how so?
< 1260633819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wrong
< 1260633820 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an irregular series of stories"
< 1260633829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh?
< 1260633829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a quote from the page, actually
< 1260633835 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1260633850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how comes you know that?
< 1260633854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote it? HAH
< 1260633859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovered
< 1260633861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalization!
< 1260633869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all logic is based on generalization
< 1260633869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how so?
< 1260633871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-known fact
< 1260633898 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all internet fiction I've seen can be described as an irregular series of stories -> all internet fiction can be described as an irregular series of stories
< 1260633917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that implication is not true.
< 1260633924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies
< 1260633931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all logic works like that, because some logic works like that
< 1260633937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well known example: All swans I have seen are white
< 1260633942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus all swans are white
< 1260633944 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260633951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there are black swans in Australia
< 1260633953 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I know this is not true. It's fun to be stupid, though)
< 1260633961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes
< 1260633975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ehird hasn't realised this yet
< 1260633986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1260634009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so you are not aware of the distinction between deduction and induction?
< 1260634016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I am
< 1260634032 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that it's entertaining to pretend not to
< 1260634048 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the distinction, of course, is that induction isn't logic)
< 1260634095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what? afaik induction proofs work over countable sets?
< 1260634098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember
< 1260634127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right?
< 1260634152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical induction is deductive reasoning
< 1260634165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, "fun to be stupid"...
< 1260634175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While regular induction is just "it has worked so far, so it must always be the case"
< 1260634178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I missed the sarcasm
< 1260634192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that's because it wasn't there ;P
< 1260634205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... I broke clang
< 1260634210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how?
< 1260634223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by being really stupid
< 1260634230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how?
< 1260634246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making a change to the lexer that I apparently did wrong
< 1260634254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alarums. Enter Iohn and Hubert.
< 1260634254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iohn. How goes the day with vs? oh tell me Hubert
< 1260634254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- MR. William SHAKESPEARES Comedies, Histories & Tragedies, Published according to the True Original Copies London Printed by Ifaac Iaggard, and Ed, Bount. 1623
< 1260634258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, are you working on clang?
< 1260634261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where Hubert got to our topic.
< 1260634273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260634286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uhu
< 1260634335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's no comma there.
< 1260634382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what coppro and AnMaster said. also there is _transfinite_ induction which doesn't require countability
< 1260634396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does that work?
< 1260634396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erkh
< 1260634403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what?
< 1260634407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/AnMaster/Slereah/
< 1260634416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it is more likely from this actual, later copy of the King John play:
< 1260634417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Alarums. Enter KING JOHN and HUBERT.]
< 1260634417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KING JOHN. How goes the day with us? O, tell me, Hubert.
< 1260634453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there was no "but" there: but tell me, hubert
< 1260634457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iircv
< 1260634459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc*
< 1260634461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well ordered (or even well founded) set instead of just naturals.
< 1260634470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway why did shakespear like hubert so much
< 1260634473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, fungot does mix that stuff up.
< 1260634473 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah oh you're breaking up really really bad it was based on a true life story or something yeah
< 1260634479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it to prove things about all ordinals, say
< 1260634480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, like the reals?
< 1260634486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260634492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, reals are totally ordered, not well ordered
< 1260634497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the usual ordering
< 1260634504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm?
< 1260634523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ordering means every non-empty set has a smallest element
< 1260634532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the rationals are countable. you can map them to the integer by using the diagonal
< 1260634553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um this is irrelevent to what i said
< 1260634556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vant
< 1260634625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then you lost me
< 1260634672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1260634672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so example of uncountable but well ordered set
< 1260634672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Irreverent to what you said.
< 1260634712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the axiom of choice allows you to give a well ordering for any set, no matter how big. Zermelo's proof. However it needs to have no connection to any usual ordering.
< 1260634742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph-1, being the first uncountable ordinal, is the smallest example
< 1260634769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a von Neumann ordinal it is the set of all countable ordinals
< 1260634793 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still can't decide if I believe the axiom of choice is true or not, and if it has consequences for physical reality either way
< 1260634796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait
< 1260634838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cardinal. but that presentation gives a well ordering of it.
< 1260634948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's name as an ordinal is omega-1
< 1260635039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_number explains everything i said about this so far, i think
< 1260635075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to sleep a bit before understanding this
< 1260635077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn*
< 1260635088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1260635596 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axiom of choice definitely has no consequences for physical reality.
< 1260635598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now befuddled
< 1260635637 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZFC contains models of ZF-C and vice versa, doesn't it?
< 1260635670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not strictly a model
< 1260635672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it that my change is causing runtime errors in an area not in my codepath?
< 1260635690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an embedding of sorts?
< 1260635700 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a non-strict model and what's non-strict about it?
< 1260635721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had a model in the technical sense you would have a proof of its consistence, violating godel incompleteness
< 1260635769 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1260635782 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So assuming that ZF is consistent, are there models?
< 1260635798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more like: given a model of one, you can construct a model of the other
< 1260635851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :godel's completeness theorem says essentially that, yes, iirc
< 1260635872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this requires working inside ZF to start with...
< 1260635975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not an expert on this
< 1260636053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess the completeness theorem does pretty much say that.
< 1260636325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ cohen's forcing used for one direction of the proof requires working with ZF as the metatheory, but i haven't exactly read the proof.
< 1260636348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because forcing requires some rather heavy set theory stuff
< 1260637564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixed it
< 1260637642 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1260637654 0 :quantumEd!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260637712 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forccing?? bloody hell
< 1260637747 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consequences for physical reality." ? because reality is finite or what
< 1260637748 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1260637769 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by reality I guess you mean sockdrawers
< 1260638880 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260639070 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260640505 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260641628 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming I'm remembering this stuff correctly, doesn't the Banach-Tarski paradox depend on the axiom of choice being true? Obviously nobody is actually going to be able to attempt that kind of disassembly/reassembly physically, but I think that shows AOC isnt devoid of applicability to physical theory
< 1260641661 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, it's a conseqence of axiom of choice
< 1260641674 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter whether choice is true or not (whatever that means)
< 1260641790 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant 'true' as a sloppy way of expressing whether or not that axiom is included in a formal system
< 1260641818 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry
< 1260642307 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260642317 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260642427 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, here's a link that seems to make the case that modern physics already presumes the axiom of choice to be true:
< 1260642435 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://books.google.com/books?id=4paH9zuYzmgC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=axiom+of+choice+and+physics&source=bl&ots=72CmYhfqCB&sig=C-97pzDcvE5Cok64aKMxvsmLUao&hl=en&ei=b04kS-2IA9TDlAeU9YH2CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=axiom%20of%20choice%20and%20physics&f=false
< 1260642499 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260642505 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260642623 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand that stuff :/
< 1260642636 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that I don't know physics well enough to get it, maybe
< 1260642876 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the details arent that important, the outline of the argument is that von neumann's analysis of quantum superposition made use of math that depends on axiom of choice - as to whether that really supports the somewhat strong conclusion he draws, i dunno
< 1260642883 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260642925 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not actually arguing for/against AOC having any physical relevance, but I think its an interesting question that cant just be dismissed, if you take the relationship between reality/physics/math seriously
< 1260643473 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260643482 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260643821 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260643833 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260643843 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260644306 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260644313 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260644512 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260644544 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260645547 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260645667 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260646442 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260646645 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260646678 0 :immibis!n=immibis@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260651170 0 :`Fuco``!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260652602 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260652968 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-33-240-147.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260653372 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260653380 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260654522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: on the contrary, the Banach-Tarski paradox has no application to physics, either.
< 1260654673 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I agree with that, but after trying to research the question a bit I would say that it seems pretty clear the mathematics of modern physics makes use of proofs dependent on axiom of choice in some places
< 1260654695 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems from my attempting to understand the issues (subsequent to earlier semirandom musings) that there really is a pretty direct connection
< 1260654752 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260654778 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm quite skeptical.
< 1260654812 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the axiom of choice doesn't even talk about real things. It talks about things known as "ZFC sets".
< 1260654820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical analysis gets prettier when you use the axiom of choice
< 1260654860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it can be stated as simply placing a restriction on what things are ZFC sets and what things aren't.
< 1260654910 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260655074 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the ontological question of whether or not the mathematical rules we use to describe reality are actually embedded within reality in some way, or are directly synonymous with it, or are only related via the mechanism of essentially subjective mentation is still pretty vexatious
< 1260655103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define vexatious
< 1260655122 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* annoying: causing irritation or annoyance; "tapping an annoying rhythm on his glass with his fork"; "aircraft noise is particularly bothersome ... \ [17]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Vexatious litigation is legal action which is brought, regardless of its merits, solely to harass or subdue an adversary. ...
< 1260655188 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define mentation
< 1260655190 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* thinking: the process of using your mind to consider something carefully; "thinking always made him frown"; "she paused for thought" \ [13]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Mental activity. The process of thinking
< 1260655230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're asking whether the definition of a man-made concept is embedded in reality in some way.
< 1260655261 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does which color means "go" have any bearing on physics? No, definitely not.
< 1260655282 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not that simple, the external universe is the cause of all our thoughts, and we are not in any way separate from the universe
< 1260655312 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if materialism is basically correct, which I think it is, human ideas are simply another observable objective physical phenomenon in the universe, caused via its action and bearing the imprint of its structure
< 1260655340 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea that human thought structure is in some way independent of reality is actually profoundly antiscientific, in my opinion
< 1260655358 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but "bearing the imprint" doesn't mean that fundamental truths will embed themselves in the definitions that we choose in order to simplify things.
< 1260655364 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree.
< 1260655379 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axiom of choice is part of a definition that we choose in order to simplify things.
< 1260655392 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it's an open question of how exactly our mathematical physics relates to reality - to what extent it is 'really out there'/
< 1260655414 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i have two oranges in one hand and two oranges in another hand and then i put them on the table and count 4 oranges, it seems pretty objective
< 1260655431 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reading cosmology and the like, it can be harder to have that same feeling
< 1260655495 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260655523 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess if I believe the facts of arithmetic, and its axioms, can be 'out there' in the universe, then the axiom of choice could be implicate in the structure of how things work as well
< 1260655551 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because "two" and "four" have definitions that are strongly linked with physics; we can observe things whose behavior corresponds to the behavior of the integers.
< 1260655570 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the example of riemannian geometry being created back when everyone thought space was flat and Newtonian is an example I could cite
< 1260655596 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that if we observed things that behaved like ZF sets, it would make sense to talk about whether the axiom of choice is true for the universe or not.
< 1260655647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think that's a neat analogy. Given that the universe's geometry is not Euclidean, would you say that Euclid's fifth postulate is not true in this universe?
< 1260655699 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think I would
< 1260655739 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the large scale structure of space time is curved, then you can either have multiple or zero parallels relative to a given line from a given point
< 1260655759 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we discovered some other area of physics that *does* follow the laws of Euclidean geometry?
< 1260655784 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats the problem, quantum theory basically does, and thats why we cant fit it with GR, right?
< 1260655800 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260655869 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we dont know how to mathematically reformulate QFT in gravitationally curved spacetime in a consistent way
< 1260655889 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously, neither QM nor GR is a complete theory of stuff. As far as this part of geometry goes, GR seems to describe it better.
< 1260655892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it's the non-euclideanness as much as the fact the geometry is changing with time...
< 1260655969 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: yeah, when it comes to drawing parallel lines to infinity, that is definitely on the scale of the cosmological ;)
< 1260656358 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still haven't really answered my question, though.
< 1260656370 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which question?
< 1260656430 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics and euclidean geometry?
< 1260656632 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we . . . of Euclidean geometry?
< 1260656685 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I have the belief that there is an actual set of true physical laws that are consisent across the observable universe and are expressible in mathematical form, and they will be all in agreement
< 1260656724 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260656734 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would think that having spacetime be treated as Euclidean when modeling one process and non-Euclidean in another model would be a sign that one or another model was incomplete
< 1260656803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's leprechauns all the way down
< 1260656836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260657664 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260657731 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260657781 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260658012 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-29-218.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260658151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260658178 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260658623 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260658969 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260659407 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hang on a moment.
< 1260659427 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would agree with you if I were talking about something like QM and GR.
< 1260659468 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But suppose that we actually do manage to find a complete set of laws for the universe.
< 1260659544 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/do/did/
< 1260659555 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one part of these laws (e.g. its description of spacetime) consisted of a non-Euclidean geometry, and another (e.g. its description of some spooky thing we haven't discovered yet) consisted of Euclidean geometry.
< 1260660154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lovecraft had it backwards
< 1260660347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260662325 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260662548 0 :swordprincess!n=swordpri@resnet224-207.resnet.wmich.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260662689 0 :swordprincess!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260663793 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260665660 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260668264 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260669111 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260669114 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question about the applicability to our experience of the parallel postulate seems to be exclusively in the realm of the spacetime geometry, the fact that something other than the geometry of space might use the tools of geometry would seem to be separate
< 1260669160 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, its basically an experimental question - I set up a pair of infinitely long straight poles, set up the angles just so where I'm at - and what happens as you follow the bars away in space?
< 1260670638 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-245.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260671647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how is it that my change is causing runtime errors in an area not in my codepath? <-- what caused it?
< 1260674006 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260675434 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260676345 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260679285 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260679357 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260679614 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260679634 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260679686 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260680443 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260682757 0 :asiekierka2!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260683167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260684549 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260685759 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-99-182.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260686275 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260686502 0 :nsinreal!n=opera@145-94-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260686519 0 :nsinreal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1260686525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260688468 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260689075 0 :asiekierka2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260689737 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260690147 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-73-18.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260690221 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260690933 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260691199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260691200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260691352 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260691480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260691491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hours ago, remind me
< 1260691499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just brought it up
< 1260691557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duran duran in cyberspace
< 1260691740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260691753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, duran duran being some contemporary band?
< 1260691757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to us I mean)
< 1260691771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80s band i think
< 1260691783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i only vaguely recall the name myself
< 1260691913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you one of those people who can "rattle off the names of a dozen or more Renaissance era composers or musical compositions"?
< 1260692151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not really. My main interest is in the range 1700-1800 with some specific composers outside that
< 1260692173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I rather like Vivaldi for example, but I never liked Bach much)
< 1260693920 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260693928 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello :-)
< 1260694038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jello
< 1260694054 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lello
< 1260694066 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going that wai
< 1260694075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wai!
< 1260694583 0 :nsinreal!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260695447 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :`Fuco`
< 1260697593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the program was invoking itself recursively; the debugger was running on the initial instance that wasn't running through that code path
< 1260697615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, err context?
< 1260697634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what caused my issues with clang
< 1260697681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang*
< 1260697969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ă h
< 1260697971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah*
< 1260698128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so
< 1260698143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no significant performance hits, which is good
< 1260698214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so clang was invoking itself?
< 1260698215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260698253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, it just recently migrated from being two separate programs; I didn't realize it actually still called itself rather than passing the data around internally
< 1260698260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect that will eventually disappear
< 1260698832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260698884 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260699094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260699173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260699203 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260701889 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260701980 0 :augur!n=augur@pool-96-231-169-236.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260702266 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-164.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260702533 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260703432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260703446 0 :quantumEd!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260704001 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260705363 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260705756 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260705779 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260705998 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1260706043 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love firefly!
< 1260706074 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to know that you're liked
< 1260706157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, but don't you ask yourself "why"?
< 1260706177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely kaylee
< 1260706178 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmph
< 1260706185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, eh?
< 1260706198 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why
< 1260706205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, define:kaylee
< 1260706215 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've never seen firefly?
< 1260706229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, he is in here atm....
< 1260706236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in real life I haven't seen him
< 1260706264 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.labarc.com/Black/KayleeHammock2.jpg
< 1260706269 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is kaylee
< 1260706271 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I knew he was referring to the series
< 1260706278 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you didn't realise
< 1260706279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :series?
< 1260706280 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway
< 1260706296 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen one episode of the series, and I didn't like it
< 1260706303 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, some americanish TV series
< 1260706307 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know a lot about it
< 1260706316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1260706435 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you know that kaylee is fucking hot
< 1260706498 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260707622 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260707627 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260708671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a language *based* around C++ style templates
< 1260708689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or based on possibly
< 1260708897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260709841 0 :coppro!n=coppro@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260710014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: all girls are hot.
< 1260710057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :girls being discussed in #esoteric, what is this world coming to
< 1260710132 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1260710145 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-245.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260710398 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, that'd at least be better than #not-math :P
< 1260710419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel has a very different flavour from #not-math
< 1260710452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#not-math is cynical and bitter, this channel is childish and enthusiastic
< 1260710545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: is your purpose in life to try to balance the situation?
< 1260710613 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's what i was bred for
< 1260710667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how channels have flavors.
< 1260710680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i believe it's possible
< 1260710687 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like chocolate, please
< 1260710709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any group with over 3 people will eventually turn into the ideal flavorless group
< 1260712421 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260712422 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260712422 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260712809 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260712809 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260712809 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260713945 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260714808 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260715745 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260715745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260715864 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260715869 0 :lifthrasiir!i=gE3ZrN7f@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260715917 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260716648 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260716959 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260717042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : series?
< 1260717069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i didn't think you were male and she is female, i'd suspect you wee anniefan from the iwc forum :D
< 1260717075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*were
< 1260717236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION admittedly doesn't know firefly either, except that it has some ardent fans
< 1260717251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fans :D
< 1260717340 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool
< 1260717365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #not-math is cynical and bitter, this channel is childish and enthusiastic
< 1260717380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when ehird isn't here, then it's all four at the same time
< 1260717408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't come by this weekend as i thought he said he would :(
< 1260717461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefly has fans, not FireFly
< 1260717466 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :camel case sucks
< 1260717480 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CamelCase owns
< 1260717487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: shh, don't make him sad now
< 1260717506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brings out FireFly's greatest fan -----###
< 1260717519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch
< 1260717523 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't see that one coming
< 1260717528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it
< 1260717551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan likes swatting me
< 1260718170 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes. (_Planew B_ FTW)
< 1260718248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Søket på - "planew b" - fant ikke samsvar med noen dokumenter.'
< 1260718301 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Planet B
< 1260718966 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: was that a somewhat convoluted of saying "That is the case when ehird isn't here; when he is, it's all four at the same time"?
< 1260719001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ding*
< 1260719056 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that a slightly ambiguous way of saying "yes"?
< 1260719075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats uorygl -----###
< 1260719193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that a slightly idiosyncratic way of . . .
< 1260719216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought *ding* was sort of a game show sound
< 1260719240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot quite google a confirmation or not.
< 1260719249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much, yeah.
< 1260719259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse would be a toilet sound, or similar
< 1260719271 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*buzz*?
< 1260719277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe
< 1260719291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION probably is not up-to-date on the matter
< 1260719307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i haven't watched tv much for years
< 1260719600 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260720853 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260721828 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260726295 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260730277 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260731442 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260731750 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260733005 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260737302 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260737315 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260768389 0 :hugo_dc!n=hugo@189.186.53.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260768417 0 :hugo_dc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi esoteric people :D
< 1260769118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260770863 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260772017 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260773827 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Pong timeout: 180 seconds"
< 1260774132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260774236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260774426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260774434 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260774442 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1260774730 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260776088 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260776744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MitD
< 1260776749 0 :MitD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1260776889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :whatsthelongestn
< 1260776893 0 :whatsthelongestn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1260777155 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260777599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260779193 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260779193 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260789466 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260789602 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260789704 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260794203 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-73-18.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260796917 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260800637 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260800733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260800733 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260800901 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260801323 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260801667 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260802236 0 :hugo_dc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Saliendo"
< 1260802278 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-218.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260804121 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-mehuzfufpjtsugpc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260804254 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m6c8cd789 - draft of my (eso-ish)language
< 1260804261 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i chane in your opinion
< 1260804274 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know JGR can be replaced with JL and JE
< 1260804277 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one spot is free for sure
< 1260804314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like an asm
< 1260804383 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one
< 1260804388 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to be the "middleman" between RISC and CISC
< 1260804411 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll add DIV and MOD
< 1260804477 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1260804479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas
< 1260804586 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1260804590 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit will be 20 commands
< 1260804592 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding DIV and MOD
< 1260804593 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else
< 1260804682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523?
< 1260805284 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have DIV and MOD, you need MUL
< 1260805445 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta statements: PSH, POP, CAL, RET (possible with current commands, but makes it easier to implement methods)
< 1260805489 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory-mapped registers: instruction pointer, stack pointer
< 1260805523 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260805550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1260805557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me, hours ago
< 1260805589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers changing to checking iwc before logging on iwc
< 1260805593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er,
< 1260805602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/iwc$/irc/
< 1260805686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260805816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chuckles slightly at today's Lightning Made of Owls
< 1260805878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1260806047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's Square Root of Minus Garfield is rather ... meta
< 1260806206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: balrog, death
< 1260806503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't cthulhu chair an organization of them at one point...
< 1260806680 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...
< 1260806700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider MUL, CAL (EXT will be used as a RET)
< 1260806702 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have 20
< 1260806798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Why did my first final have to be the earliest possible final?
< 1260806807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had almost forgotten that there was an 8 AM.
< 1260806810 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m55d244ff
< 1260806816 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, MizardX
< 1260806832 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about IP, i will consider it
< 1260806956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 AM, the forgotten horror of the ancients
< 1260806969 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m68f02f74
< 1260807066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The last time I was up that early, I had stayed up for it.
< 1260807069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... A year ago.
< 1260807075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1260807787 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260807787 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260808056 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260808189 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260808796 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260809985 0 :ais523_unid!i=5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/x-vkaouxeveevsusuz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260810618 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented it
< 1260810619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1260810682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/nybblings_beta.zip
< 1260810686 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-164.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260811430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260812571 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260814355 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk
< 1260814358 0 :asie[afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk]
< 1260814829 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260816926 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260817286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, asiekierka?
< 1260817287 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er.
< 1260817289 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, asiekierka!
< 1260817418 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260817425 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stumped
< 1260817441 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka
< 1260817536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastebin.com/m1613d8bd - works the first time, then it ignores the keyboard, then it works, etc...
< 1260817965 0 :quantumEd!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260818016 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is restricted brainfuck still turing complete? restriction is to interpret ] as } assert(p == oldP);
< 1260818026 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that loops must end up where you started from
< 1260818037 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1260818046 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so, yes.
< 1260818073 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I think there are universal Turing machines that use only five cells.
< 1260818103 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: i doubt it's been proven by anyone
< 1260818106 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: so, you should do it!
< 1260818276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it could possibly depend on whether individual cells are bounded or not
< 1260818293 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, I finished my "eso"lang
< 1260818296 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always think of it unbounded but I guess that's not really correct...
< 1260818297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpreter is not buggy
< 1260818301 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what's eso about it
< 1260818307 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's "eso"
< 1260818309 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked totally plain to me
< 1260818312 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the fact that it has 20 commands
< 1260818328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: some people like bounded, some like unbounded, and the properties of the two wrt turing-completeness are quite different
< 1260818368 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, here's a neat idea: Brainfuck intros. Write a program in 4,096 BF instructions or less that runs on a tape with exactly 30,000 one-byte cells. It must output, in alternation, 307200 bytes interpreted as 256-color pixels on a 640x480 canvas, and 735 bytes interpreted as 8-bit 44100 Hz mono samples of a sixtieth of a second of audio.
< 1260818452 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1260818468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1260818468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not 160x200
< 1260818471 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be better
< 1260818508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure?
< 1260818527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260818530 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only 32000 bytes
< 1260818531 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260818536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why 4096
< 1260818540 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for BF you'd need 16384
< 1260818548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually someone DID write an intro in BF
< 1260818549 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using text
< 1260818552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 102x50
< 1260818555 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 9 kb i thin
< 1260818556 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1260818557 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but EPOCH
< 1260818561 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the intro shouldn't be in brainfuck
< 1260818575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be in machine code, containing a brainfuck interpreter and its program
< 1260818599 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend did that
< 1260818607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ~200-byte x86 BF interpreter
< 1260818607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fits in a bootsector
< 1260818612 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads from bootdisk
< 1260818616 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of folks put game of life into demos
< 1260818621 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of lie
< 1260818621 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of similar ?
< 1260818624 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/nybblings_rc1.zip - Final, though might still have a bug or two, I seriously doubt it.
< 1260818668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, 4,096 BF instructions.
< 1260818678 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x480 so it can look fancy. It doesn't need to look fancy, but it can.
< 1260818706 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it to look non-fancy, use a couple extra instructions to simulate a lower resolution.
< 1260818979 0 :ais523_unid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1260819307 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260819641 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260822660 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260823090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260825073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the Ubuntu auto-startup-disk-creator thing doesn't really work
< 1260825078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to reformat the USB drive by hand
< 1260825084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reformatting drives always gets me scared
< 1260826053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: There's a thing called bfvga.
< 1260826062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It maps the brainfuck tape to the 320x200 VGA screen memory.
< 1260826073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It was used in some less-than-4k intro competition.
< 1260826089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060
< 1260826120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not exactly the same thing, but related.
< 1260826140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to map every second cell, rather than the whole thing, to give calculation space
< 1260826158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose with some drivers, you could just have the tape actually in video memory...)
< 1260826185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's a DOS thing and it does keep the tape actually in video memory.
< 1260827692 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260828353 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260828430 0 :ais523_new!i=93bcfe81@gateway/web/freenode/x-uotcaaziymvqpaxv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260828442 0 :ais523_new!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I online?
< 1260828448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I'm online!
< 1260828452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks Ubuntu driver person
< 1260828463 0 :ais523_new!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260829556 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260830970 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what driveryness did they help you with?
< 1260830991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realtek rtl8191se
< 1260831007 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260831016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go look at the relevant bug report, and find that there's a driver already written and just waiting to be approved
< 1260831023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wiped out hours of someone else's work on a term project due today
< 1260831039 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260831865 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may sound silly, but is there a debian program that lists all nearby wireless networks, like windows has?
< 1260831963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetworkManager
< 1260832096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the systray icon?
< 1260832106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260832112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-click and you should get a list
< 1260832115 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it says I am not connected to any network, even though I am on a LAN
< 1260832124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird...
< 1260832137 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it lists no wireless networks, even though there is on in the house
< 1260832152 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the wired network it says "device not managed"
< 1260832172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not managed means it's being connected some other way
< 1260832257 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how?
< 1260832273 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260832282 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people seem to suggest changing the config fil in /etc
< 1260832311 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260832313 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://waffle.wootest.net/2009/12/13/nobel-speak/
< 1260832318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1260832322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone!
< 1260832326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B
< 1260832339 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA I AM FIRE hello
< 1260832344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was worried when you didn't show up on the weekend
< 1260832354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering an Android phone
< 1260832360 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loooooooooooooong story.
< 1260832369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet
< 1260832424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260832431 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The iPhone, despite numerous flaws, is superior in almost all the ways that matter. It feels like a seamless *interface*, not a gadget.
< 1260832444 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, Android cannot compare.
< 1260832482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I find the App Store policies abhorrent to the highest degree.
< 1260832502 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone is just so much better it cancels out.
< 1260832515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds the very concept of not being allowed to uses non-App Store apps abhorrent
< 1260832518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use
< 1260832530 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreak it, then. But I
< 1260832533 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : erm
< 1260832559 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm serious: the iPhone is in an astronomically different league.
< 1260832648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, do you know anything about Word's autorecovery features?
< 1260832655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like someone is speaking from inside a Reality Distortion Field
< 1260832674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quantumEd: it could possibly depend on whether individual cells are bounded or not
< 1260832692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has too, a balanced bf program can obviously use only a fixed number of cells
< 1260832696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to
< 1260832707 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced ?
< 1260832726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's BFM seems relevant, it does things balanced unless you force it not to
< 1260832747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: equal number of >< in all loops, what you said
< 1260832771 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260832776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equivalent to what you said
< 1260832822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i recall pikhq had quite a number of macros for doing things balancedly, so he may practically have proved it already
< 1260832924 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260832974 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260832979 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.73.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260833052 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Bandy about distortion fields all you like: the iPhone's interface really is that much more crisp—and believe me, I wish it weren't so due to the App Store mess.
< 1260833068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crispiness really that important?
< 1260833079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with potato chips, ok >.>
< 1260833110 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For a handheld device that must minimise fiddliness: it is everything.
< 1260833115 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that the bitterness of limited functionality lingers on after the sweetness of user interface is forgotten
< 1260833161 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: What limited functionality?—are you disparaging the extreme interface simplicity?
< 1260833169 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I find plan 9 to have an acceptable user interface and most people think using it is like being dragged pantsless across across a gravel pit
< 1260833180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think you just summed up humanity there ;D
< 1260833232 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: well, I'm a pretty hardcore freedom-to-use-as-you-wish guy, so any device I'm not root on seems to be limited functionality to me - and I wasn't really taking sides on behalf of Android, since it is 'more open' not 'open'
< 1260833240 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, changing the line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf worked to display the wired network logo
< 1260833257 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no love for the wireless though
< 1260833261 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: So an ideological objection. I agree, but:
< 1260833262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, in what way in Android not open?
< 1260833269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreaking;
< 1260833273 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't root on the device without jailbreaking it
< 1260833278 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so good it cancels out.
< 1260833294 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Included apps aren't open, f.ex.
< 1260833296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does jailbreaking work, exactly?
< 1260833306 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be less vague.
< 1260833312 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: its usually based on a privilege escalation exploit against the OS kernel
< 1260833326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You plug in your phone, run a program on your computer:
< 1260833332 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fizz bing pang
< 1260833336 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broken.
< 1260833384 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversible by resetting the phone's OS.
< 1260833398 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is actually amazingly sharp at the 'its open but its not game' - youtube was telling me to download google chrome for linux - but its license agreement forbids me to copy, reverse engineer, try to access the source code...
< 1260833415 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Chromium is open
< 1260833425 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: but the chrome browser they wanted me to download was NOT
< 1260833431 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome = Chromium + branding.
< 1260833432 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand the scenario exactly
< 1260833440 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Firefox is the same. M
< 1260833452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Chrome = Chromium + branding + RLZ
< 1260833458 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else can build and distribute Firefox.
< 1260833463 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is not the same, for using firefox I did not have to agree to the same restrictive licensing terms as chrome asked me to
< 1260833476 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must use different branding.
< 1260833491 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, the chrome download license agreement is a hell of a lot different than mozilla license crap, which is still annoying, im an ICEWEASEL user
< 1260833500 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W
< 1260833526 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful, zealotry (ideology without relevant effect).
< 1260833543 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not zealotry, its doing what the lawyers said they had to
< 1260833564 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fight tha powah.
< 1260833566 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if debian wanted to be able to patch firefox independently of mozilla and distribute that, they didnt have the legal choice to call it firefox
< 1260833585 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I fail to see any zealotry whatsoever
< 1260833591 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not referencing that.
< 1260833616 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i dereferenced the pointer wrong, fix the stack
< 1260833639 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, too much typing effort for iPhone usage. One thing no phone is good at is long typing.
< 1260833657 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what *zealotry ==
< 1260833673 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^^
< 1260833862 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's just abolish copyright. There, debate ended with my own extremist position.
< 1260833874 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im fine with that solution
< 1260833882 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt seem extremist to me
< 1260833894 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also patents, EULAs.
< 1260833942 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, i think the overall consequences of that would actually be stimulative to the economy, despite a lot of short term disruption
< 1260833987 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH!
< 1260833991 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, it all works
< 1260833999 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM
< 1260834008 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I like the idea of abolishing EULAs.
< 1260834011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: oh no, we're doomed!
< 1260834018 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after changing the line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf (may or may not have made a difference)...
< 1260834021 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, for mechanical processes and inventions, there is an argument that patents actually *encourage* sharing of information, because without patents, there is a very high incentive to keep inventions secret and simply use them for competitive advantage
< 1260834023 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic command is: sudo iw dev wlan0 scan
< 1260834036 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, I can see all these networks
< 1260834042 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: They are already legally dubious.
< 1260834058 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries going wireless-only
< 1260834061 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to take some sort of platonic rationality-assuming mathematical perspectives, having EULAs is equivalent to not having EULAs, because companies can just make you sign a contract before ever handing over the software.
< 1260834065 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upheld in the apple/psystart case though
< 1260834071 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s//
< 1260834101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay!
< 1260834114 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, of course, people are more likely to buy software and then sign a EULA for the software they've already paid for than sign a contract and then have access to the software.
< 1260834116 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: correct, one of the big problems with totally abolishing IP law is that there would be a number of very perverse consequences, such as what you just mentioned and the decision to 'hoard' inventions rather than publishing them
< 1260834116 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was easy
< 1260834144 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if only / wasn't on a HD that used external power, I might be aple to actually take this laptop to places
< 1260834150 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*able
< 1260834153 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here, using my estimation of your economic beliefs to make you oppose copyright.
< 1260834162 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Let me.
< 1260834163 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoarding inventions is such a cute idea.
< 1260834165 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the battery management was a bit better I supposed
< 1260834168 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suppose
< 1260834188 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of patents was to stop trade secrets
< 1260834243 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Copyright = government granted monopoly on the copying of pieces of information, which cannot be created or destroed per se.
< 1260834247 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intellectual property law with sane boundaries and time limits was intended to serve as an incentive on *behalf* of the open publication of information
< 1260834257 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*destroyed
< 1260834268 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "per se", do you mean "by itself"?
< 1260834271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in a patent
< 1260834276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, use a different phrase, because that's what "per se" means.
< 1260834299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4961476/description.html
< 1260834299 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Oh, shut up, prescriptivist.
< 1260834338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell what you mean by "per se".
< 1260834370 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, really. You can't create or destroy abstract information. It's not physical.
< 1260834381 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260834399 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect right now if we elimated all copy protection for software, for instance, the effect would be to make a lot of current proprietary software distributors to switch over to an entirely remote-access client/server model where you pay for access time and you never get a copy of the software on your machine even as a binary
< 1260834412 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you estimate my economic beliefs.
< 1260834422 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: oh how very web-2.0
< 1260834430 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yudkowsky's.
< 1260834442 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how anyone estimates Yudkowsky's economic beliefs.
< 1260834446 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i think you mean how very 60s timesharing ;)
< 1260834471 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to Hanson's but less... Prediction Market.
< 1260834485 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y dem capitalise iPhone?
< 1260834488 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: webmail? google docs?
< 1260834503 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1260834531 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: So, completely free capitalist Market.
< 1260834557 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Robin Hanson is an anarcho-capitalist.
< 1260834569 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in many ways, he is.
< 1260834583 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he's a futarchist. Stupid idea btw. M
< 1260834590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too.
< 1260834625 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah im aware that business model is already in effect and never went away after its initial appearance decades ago, its the oldest new thing in history - and google's understanding of the gpl2 loophole where they can create as many derivative works as they want and make them available on network, not distribute them, is brilliant.
< 1260834626 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchocapitalism is silly.
< 1260834653 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you enforce the monopoly on access to property?
< 1260834663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the backbone of capitalism.
< 1260834720 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think calling it an artificial monopoly on copying information doesn't really help me understand anything.
< 1260834738 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all anarchism is based on the idea that people choose to cooperate voluntarily - and follow agreed upon rules without the use of force, in general. this is widely regarded as unrealistic.
< 1260834750 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You oppose government monopolies. Yes?
< 1260834755 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Incorrect.
< 1260834788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing monopolies results in a price that is, in some sense, fair.
< 1260834804 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchism's safety is in dissociation by small communities.
< 1260834829 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that can't retrieve property.
< 1260834840 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not wihout coersion.
< 1260834843 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without
< 1260834849 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets not define anarchism, it reminds me of the talk page for the wikipedia anarchism article which is one of the most verbose and long running pointless arguments i have ever seen
< 1260834869 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence without state.
< 1260834882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monopolies make the price move in a certain direction away from "fairness".
< 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., without community sanctioned coersion.
< 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka violence)
< 1260835024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I am not an anarchist.
< 1260835081 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk, you people!
< 1260835081 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring ^
< 1260835124 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835129 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835135 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835135 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835135 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835136 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835136 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835136 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835208 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835410 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260835411 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260835411 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :quantumEd!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835411 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260835412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentions patent law when ehird isn't looking
< 1260835412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ehird hates patent law because he can't wrap his head around monopolies having any benefit
< 1260836039 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed
< 1260836181 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like monopolies would not survive without patent laws
< 1260838868 0 :oerjan_!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260838924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260838940 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan
< 1260839625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Sure they would.
< 1260839683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839683 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839683 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839684 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839685 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839685 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839686 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839687 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839687 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260839902 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260840091 0 :jpc!n=jw@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260840767 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260840767 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841273 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841835 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841836 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841837 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841837 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841837 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260841888 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841888 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841888 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841888 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841888 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841888 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260841949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260841951 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260842048 0 :coppro!n=coppro@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842233 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260842233 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260842235 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260842235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260842235 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260842452 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842452 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842452 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842452 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842452 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842452 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260842841 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260842933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260843010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843010 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843010 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843010 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843010 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843011 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843032 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :jpc!n=jw@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843032 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843229 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260843556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260843742 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260843742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844020 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844020 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844021 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane!n=rembane@83.168.206.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision
< 1260844022 0 :coppro!n=coppro@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :jpc!n=jw@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-83-241.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844022 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844072 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844123 0 :Deewiant_!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844129 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ghosted client
< 1260844137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260844474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844474 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844474 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844474 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260844697 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844697 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844697 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844697 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844697 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844697 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260844842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can now load ELF binaries on Mac OS X.
< 1260844845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that, Apple!
< 1260844869 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260844946 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845419 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845419 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845419 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845419 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845419 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845420 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845420 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260845512 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845512 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845512 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845512 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845512 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845512 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845671 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260845732 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260845732 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846022 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846022 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846027 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846027 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :Deewiant_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260846197 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846197 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846205 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846205 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846210 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260846323 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260846733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260847056 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847056 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847056 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847056 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847391 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260847392 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260847392 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279282482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847392 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260847467 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260847618 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260848921 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260848922 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260848922 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260848922 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260848922 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260849760 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260849760 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260849760 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260849760 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260849760 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260850090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260850090 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260850090 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260850090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260850090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260850381 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436554.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260850867 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260851213 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260851213 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260851213 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260851213 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260851213 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260852456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260852457 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260852457 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260852457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260852457 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260852936 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260852936 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260852936 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260852936 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260852936 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853471 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853471 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853471 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853491 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853510 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853845 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853846 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853846 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853846 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853846 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260853846 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436554.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260853846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer
< 1260853846 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260854688 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260855046 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855378 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855378 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855378 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855387 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855387 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855419 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855419 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855788 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855788 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855788 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855788 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260855840 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :lifthrasiir!i=g09hlDKQ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260855840 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260856834 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260856834 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260856834 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260856834 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260856834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260857085 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260857085 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260857085 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260857085 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260857085 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260857492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260859022 0 :asiekierka3!i=asiekier@095160058069.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260859022 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260859074 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260859091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260859095 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1260859183 0 :lifthras1ir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260859213 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260859379 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lifthrasiir
< 1260859539 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260859921 0 :asiekierka3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260860700 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260861020 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-47.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260861276 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260861558 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"
< 1260861867 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260862130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260863999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260864000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260864876 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-47.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260865008 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260866937 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260869297 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260872122 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260876541 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260877315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260879130 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260880484 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260880484 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260880484 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260880484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260880906 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260880906 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260880906 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260880906 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260881844 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882210 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882223 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882223 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882223 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882241 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882575 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882695 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260882696 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882696 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260882743 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260883299 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260883299 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260883299 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260883300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260883366 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260883366 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260883366 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260883366 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260883883 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260883892 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260885343 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260885351 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260887201 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260888733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260890476 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260890895 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890895 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890897 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260890897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891078 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891078 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891110 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891110 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891110 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891111 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891111 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891111 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891111 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260891411 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260891411 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892289 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892289 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892290 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892290 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892290 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892291 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260892712 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@d83-177-15-247.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260892901 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260893323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor,
< 1260893325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can now load ELF binaries on Mac OS X.
< 1260893327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Take that, Apple!
< 1260893329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how?
< 1260893527 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893527 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893527 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893527 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893527 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893528 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893529 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260893635 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260894196 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260896501 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260896502 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260896503 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260896547 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260896549 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260896684 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897020 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If FreeNode would stay alive for more than ten secodns, I'd tell you :P
< 1260897030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://codu.org/projects/gelfloader/
< 1260897035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you are on the wrong side of the split
< 1260897051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, try connecting to orwell.freenode.net
< 1260897055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works like a charm
< 1260897101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, however we seem to be on the same side now
< 1260897104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully
< 1260897110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also I read it was due to DDOS
< 1260897113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DDoS*
< 1260897117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet.
< 1260897126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which part?
< 1260897135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that url → 404
< 1260897151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Found
< 1260897151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requested URL /projects/gelfloader/ was not found on this server.
< 1260897151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apache/2.2.14 (Debian) Server at codu.org Port 80
< 1260897159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apache fail or something
< 1260897163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tired to aruge about that
< 1260897166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, http://codu.org/projects/gelfload/
< 1260897237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, invalid cert for the hg browser
< 1260897239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1260897259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh btw, does it support dynamic linking? Or just static?
< 1260897293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, dynamic linking. And no, the cert isn't invalid.
< 1260897301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well. self signed then
< 1260897302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1260897309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not self-signed.
< 1260897317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the error again
< 1260897324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a perfectly valid cert I updated like two months ago, you must not have the CA.
< 1260897338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what CA?
< 1260897342 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897343 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897343 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897343 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897344 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897345 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260897346 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StartCom
< 1260897364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, never heard of it
< 1260897371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's free :P
< 1260897379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, it's the /only/ free one as far as I can tell.
< 1260897388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, cacert
< 1260897392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1260897417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I forget what issue I had with CAcert though ...
< 1260897431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does gelfload support rpath?
< 1260897441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other non-basic features?
< 1260897455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it would be trivial to add rpath. It doesn't support rpath because rpath is suck :P
< 1260897486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why is rpath suck? I found it useful for ~/local/foo stuff when I didn't want to clutter LD_LIBRARY_PATH for most apps
< 1260897496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, trying out a newer gcc version
< 1260897508 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, I wrote gelfloader for Windows originally and I'm not sure how to interpret a :-separated rpath when : is quite meaningful on the host OS.
< 1260897703 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why it is that rpath is a "non-basic" feature, when there are so many more advanced features of ELF :P
< 1260897729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well it was the first I thought of
< 1260897735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what about gnu style hash?
< 1260897763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, my system binaries seems to have .gnu.hash but no .hash sections for example
< 1260897774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, does it work on linux?
< 1260897786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for playing around with it obviously)
< 1260897825 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gack. No, it uses .hash, not .gnu.hash. It does work on Linux but can't load native Linux ELF files as they generally depend on /lib/ld-linux[-x86_64].so which refuses to be loaded like a normal ELF file.
< 1260897850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, they actually use symbols from their interpreter.
< 1260897853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via libc)
< 1260897869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do you mean
< 1260897876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can gelfload load itself?
< 1260897893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and what about freebsd)
< 1260897896 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897896 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260897927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /lib/ld-linux, the dynamic loader, doesn't like to be loaded like a normal ELF file for reasons I haven't yet figured out. I haven't prioritized it because as it turns out loading ELF files on Linux is kinda old hat :P
< 1260897976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, gelfload cannot generally load itself, as it's only capable of loading anything at runtime because it's put itself into a position in memory not "likely" to be required by a non-PIC ELF file.
< 1260897992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well yes, still useful to test on. At least I always found debugging easier on linux than windows.
< 1260897996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used os x much
< 1260898003 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can load ELF files made for it.
< 1260898007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do all my testing on Linux.
< 1260898010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260898014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for OS testing :P
< 1260898025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, virtualbox?
< 1260898037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacBook :P
< 1260898039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can it load gcc?
< 1260898051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If gcc was compiled for it, I'm sure it could load GCC.
< 1260898052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, macbook for os x sure. but what about windows+
< 1260898069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay. What about glibc?
< 1260898075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does some crazy things iirc
< 1260898085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc was the problem I was JUST talking about :P
< 1260898091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /lib/ld-linux being part of glibc
< 1260898118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well you were talking about ld.so yes which is a part. But even if ld.so didn't work, libc.so.6 (or whatever) and libm could work
< 1260898119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1260898120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point I had access to a Windows system, at which point I originally wrote it and also wrote winelf (the library environment for ELF files on Windows). Now I don't have Windows anymore :P
< 1260898134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: libc and libm depend on ld-linux
< 1260898137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260898142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, pthreads?
< 1260898152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs libc, and so ld-linux
< 1260898160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not freebsd pthreads
< 1260898167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried on FreeBSD :P
< 1260898170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though iirc that is a different libc or such there)
< 1260898171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yet)
< 1260898177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's FreeBSD libc.
< 1260898184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what libc do you use for testing stuff then
< 1260898189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc?
< 1260898193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Changing server"
< 1260898203 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260898206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelfload is capable of "virtual" libraries that actually just cause the loader itself to dlopen a host library.
< 1260898225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh?
< 1260898227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, gelfload binaries are linked against e.g. libhost_libc.so.6, rather than libc.so.6
< 1260898247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1260898253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that won't work on windows iirc
< 1260898260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows it uses LoadLibrary
< 1260898263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it link statically to libc there
< 1260898266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And e.g. libhost_msvcrt.dll
< 1260898267 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1260898269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the compiler does
< 1260898271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msvcrt.dll = libc
< 1260898272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1260898277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1260898287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well what about mingw
< 1260898291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use msvcrt.dll?
< 1260898295 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1260898300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, borland c++?
< 1260898309 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260898313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe has it's own C runtime, Idonno *shrugs*
< 1260898316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260898322 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not though.
< 1260898353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compelling reason to link against msvcrt.dll from nine years ago was that the NT family and 9x family use different (undocumented) syscall styles, so you need to use a MS-provided .dll to reliably do syscalls.
< 1260898378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wasn't that user32.dll?
< 1260898383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kernel32.dll iirc
< 1260898385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1260898395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then those called ntdll.dll internally or such
< 1260898411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, you're right, user32 and kernel32 are those (which of course winelf has to link against too :P )
< 1260898415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msvcrt just uses though.
< 1260898417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those
< 1260898417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what "advanced" features are missing btw?
< 1260898458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support certain relocations I haven't come across in the wild, it doesn't support special sections e.g. RPATH, and anything else I've just plain missed :P
< 1260898461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and what linker do you use to target gelfload?
< 1260898473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelfload is just a normal host binary.
< 1260898486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what about setting mprotect() for NX and such based on relevant sections?
< 1260898506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there is some way you say that in the elf headers or some elf section or such
< 1260898509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may misremember
< 1260898513 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mmaps with the relevant permissions.
< 1260898528 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't recall whether the equivalent Windows call handles the permissions properly or not)
< 1260898551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, if the host system's mmap supports making segments non-executable, then they'll be non-executable.
< 1260898561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, PT_GNU_RELRO?
< 1260898572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a GNU feature, I don't support it.
< 1260898609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those gnu features are useful
< 1260898641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they are, it's GNU.
< 1260898671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not all gnu extensions are useful
< 1260898695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what arches do you support?
< 1260898704 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presently just x86 and x86_64.
< 1260898709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I assume you will need some target specific asm
< 1260898715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to jump to the program for example
< 1260898722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only bit of ASM it uses.
< 1260898732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is all C. But is still specialized for relocation of course.
< 1260898743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what does it do on unknown sections and such
< 1260898749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, split debug info stuff
< 1260898761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[68] .gnu_debuglink PROGBITS 0000000000000000 001506d9 00000018 0 0 0 1
< 1260898763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignores unknown sections, complains about unknown relocations.
< 1260898767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it is (from my glibc)
< 1260898793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are always sections that the dynamic linker doesn't need to care about *shrugs*
< 1260898813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, debug info for example
< 1260898843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway what functions in ld.so does glibc use? If it is a few simple ones it would be trivial to implement no?
< 1260899028 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899030 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899030 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899030 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899030 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899030 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899043 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899043 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899044 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899044 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899140 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899257 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899257 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899257 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899258 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899347 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899348 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899348 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899348 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260899348 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260899610 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899678 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899702 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899702 0 :ineiros_!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899709 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899710 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster
< 1260899718 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision)
< 1260899718 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899718 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899718 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899723 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899723 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899724 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899724 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260899725 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899725 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:
< 1260899729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are always sections that the dynamic linker doesn't need to care about *shrugs*
< 1260899731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well yes, debug info for example
< 1260899732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor, anyway what functions in ld.so does glibc use? If it is a few simple ones it would be trivial to implement no?
< 1260899734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh and do you happen to know what the .jcr section is?
< 1260899736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I lost connection
< 1260899737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh and another question: do you suppport PIE
< 1260899741 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899741 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260899748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260899779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what ld.so does that it doesn't like. Like I said, I haven't prioritized that. Yes, PIEs are supported. It would be tricky /not/ to support them :P
< 1260899797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, not that tricky, but it would be totally arbitrary.
< 1260900067 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260900889 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260901440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901441 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901442 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901442 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901442 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901442 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901443 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901448 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901448 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901454 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901466 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901466 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260901466 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902068 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :ineiros_!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902068 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902085 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902085 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902085 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902089 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902089 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902092 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902093 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902093 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902098 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902099 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902099 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902099 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902099 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902099 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902104 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902104 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902104 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902105 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1260902109 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902109 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902379 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260902763 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902763 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902957 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902957 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902958 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902958 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902958 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902958 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902959 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260902960 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260903011 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1260903218 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903218 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hello
< 1260903290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1260903447 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903447 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260903447 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904238 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904238 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904238 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904335 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904335 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904335 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904336 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904337 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904337 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904676 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904676 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904733 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904733 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904734 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904735 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904735 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904735 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260904880 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904880 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904880 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-75-220.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260904909 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260905257 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-196-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260905332 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260905831 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905831 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905831 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905831 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905831 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905832 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905833 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260905833 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260906137 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906137 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260906704 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260906716 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260907389 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260907671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, OK, not that tricky, but it would be totally arbitrary. <-- ah, well I never worked at that low level so I have no clue.
< 1260907694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIEs are just ELF files that are labeled as shared objects but have an entry point.
< 1260907705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, and are relocatable, obviously :P
< 1260907706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does it support Deewiant's dobela interpreter?
< 1260907714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is written in asm with a custom file header and such
< 1260907726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's basically ELF, then maybe? :P
< 1260907727 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260907756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ever seen that page demonstrating a compact ELF program with part of the program inside the unused fields in the header?
< 1260907763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1260907768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, think similar
< 1260907774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if he used that trick
< 1260907777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah similar
< 1260907781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and self modifying
< 1260907784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it similar :-P
< 1260907792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has perfectly correct ELF headers, no tricks
< 1260907794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/dobelx64/index.html
< 1260907802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm maybe I misremember
< 1260907805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that link fails to load
< 1260907811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is from the esolang wiki
< 1260907811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't have any issues with things like the compact ELF program, self modifying should be fine so long as it doesn't count on the ELF loader caring.
< 1260907813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now it timed out
< 1260907820 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260907820 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260907836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's strange
< 1260907839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yay for sending incorrect mime type of http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/files/dobelx64/dobelx64-src.tbz2
< 1260907850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, iki says they've had troubles lately
< 1260907853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to get it to auto open in ark
< 1260907857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it works now
< 1260907860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tkk.fi, not deewiant.fi
< 1260907865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help it
< 1260907880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, eh? did I claim it was deewiant.fi?
< 1260907888 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260907888 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260907890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also you can try .tar.bz2 and see if it helps
< 1260907894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1260907904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point was that I can't do anything about it
< 1260907917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, .tgz gets correct mime type
< 1260907919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no point in complaining to me, complain to the IT staff :-P
< 1260907923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes you could send it as .tgz
< 1260907927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you do for the binary
< 1260907933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF binary (x86–64):
< 1260907933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tgz, 3.8 KiB
< 1260907933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source:
< 1260907933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tbz2, 13.1 KiB
< 1260907942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I select gzip/bzip2 based on which takes less space
< 1260907952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if the difference is on the order of bytes, gzip
< 1260907960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why not tar.lzma?
< 1260907969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because lzma is a lot less standard than gzip/bzip2
< 1260907983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you use 7zip, which iirc uses lzma internally
< 1260907997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/ccbi.html <-- no gz or bz2 there
< 1260908001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just zip and 7zip
< 1260908005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7z*
< 1260908013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, zip. Which is even more widespread than gzip/bzip2
< 1260908033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you use advdef -z4 on your *.gz?
< 1260908039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can sometimes save a few percent
< 1260908041 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? :-P
< 1260908053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, same package as advpng: advancecomp
< 1260908096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, compared to gzip --best or whatever it is, advdef can usually save a few percent
< 1260908113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better packing algorithm
< 1260908131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 7-zip to generate all the archives
< 1260908133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, still deflate/gzip but better compressed)
< 1260908136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1260908145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, advdef can save a bit on that too in some cases
< 1260908145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, for tarred stuff I probably don't
< 1260908149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less often but still
< 1260908159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, dobelx64 is the only tarred stuff IIRC
< 1260908171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and iirc advdef/advzip/advpng *uses* 7zip algorithms
< 1260908175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I may misremember that
< 1260908192 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1260908210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for png it generally goes: optipng -i0 -o7 foo.png && advpng -z4 foo.png && advdef -z4 foo.png
< 1260908237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :212.16.100.1 seems to be a good replacement for iki.fi right now, not sure why the nameservers prefer the .2 which is down
< 1260908245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for some reason advdef manages slightly better, but advpng does some extra stuff like throwing away pointless sections in the file)
< 1260908266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ host iki.fi
< 1260908266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi has address 212.16.100.1
< 1260908266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi has address 212.16.100.2
< 1260908266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi mail is handled by 10 mail2.iki.fi.
< 1260908266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi mail is handled by 10 mail.iki.fi.
< 1260908267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I get
< 1260908304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, but wget on iki.fi/deewiant shows that it goes to the .2
< 1260908312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's iki.fi that have it wrong
< 1260908313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that a pax or a tar?
< 1260908323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which?
< 1260908331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the source for dobelx64
< 1260908344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ark shows a file called pax_global_header in it
< 1260908363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 52 bytes large
< 1260908372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made with GNU tar
< 1260908399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange
< 1260908439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; 10 is taken by an instruction value, don't use it
< 1260908439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEWLINE = 255
< 1260908440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1260908459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does that require a 255 byte in the input file?
< 1260908464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for newline
< 1260908474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think?
< 1260908479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "yes"
< 1260908489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure you can do something about it; just add a .htaccess file to fix it. (Okay, so I don't know whether that works on users.tkk.fi actually; I've done that on www.cs.hut.fi, though.)
< 1260908519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Woot, they allow users to have their own .htaccess?
< 1260908529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Like I said, maybe not at users.
< 1260908542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could move it over to cs I suppose :-P
< 1260908556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the quota there
< 1260908585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has one; I mean, there's only accounts for staff. (I have no clue about Niksula.)
< 1260908614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1260908644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which file contains the elf header?
< 1260908655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tkk.fi/WWW/mime_types.html#htaccess presumably allowed
< 1260908687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't remember
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kosh t 57 % cat > .htaccess
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AddType application/x-no-such-application funky
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kosh t 58 % cat > t.funky
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funky!
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ wget http://users.tkk.fi/htkallas/t/t.funky
< 1260908701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Length: 7 [application/x-no-such-application]
< 1260908707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems to work for users.tkk.fi too.
< 1260908719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it
< 1260908737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In a subdirectory too? Nice
< 1260908746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So what's the correct MIME type
< 1260908768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try file -i on the fil
< 1260908770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file*
< 1260908776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if it says anything useful at all
< 1260908798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I *think* it is application/x-bzip2
< 1260908806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kewl beans
< 1260908806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1260908828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, assuming it worked, it should work now.
< 1260908829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :application/x-gtar gtar taz tgz
< 1260908830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260908833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's "x-", so it can't be anything too official.
< 1260908851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it did after clearing cache
< 1260908877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway you can limit in apache what .htaccess can change
< 1260908886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they made it rather limited
< 1260908892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mime type only, no scripts and such
< 1260908900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the passwd thing too
< 1260908966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, broken link on http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/misc-projects.html
< 1260908968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always application/octet-stream, which is also a viable option for binary files that do not have an IANA-registered MIME type. It's better than text/plain, in any case.
< 1260908977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, (the bit "this programming exercise")
< 1260908987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You've reported that one before
< 1260908995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I forgot that
< 1260909025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's always application/octet-stream, which is also a viable option for binary files that do not have an IANA-registered MIME type. It's better than text/plain, in any case. <-- it was what it was before, causing it not to open in the ark kparts
< 1260909041 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/t1061203/projektit/Adventure/kierros8_tehtava3.html would be the modern equivalent
< 1260909043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Speaking of mime types, and while you're "at it", the .7z files get text/plain too.
< 1260909065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what should .7z have?
< 1260909080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it octet-stream
< 1260909084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260909101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone claims application/x-7z-compressed, but those are all a bit unofficial.
< 1260909104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what file -i said
< 1260909114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice, now it opens with khexedit kparts rather than kwrite kparts
< 1260909116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia claims that too
< 1260909116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1260909126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, "someone" in this case *was* the Wikipedia "7z" article in an unsourced statement.
< 1260909131 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260909132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's that
< 1260909139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for fun
< 1260909156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still hex editor
< 1260909163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :application/x-x-extra-x-7z-compressed
< 1260909172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-xxx
< 1260909199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260909234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is fasm intel style or AT&T style?
< 1260909239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to order of arguments
< 1260909240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel
< 1260909251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have it any other way :-P
< 1260909252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that explains why it makes no sense
< 1260909278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why do you dislike AT&T style so?
< 1260909292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How *coincidental*; there's a Debian bug report from 28 Oct 2009 for the "file" package about the .7z mime type; it's been fixed at 05 Dec (ten days ago) in file 5.03-4 to be that application/x-7z-compressed. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=552742
< 1260909315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sigils, postfixes, crazy indexing syntax
< 1260909329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you mean crazy indexing syntax?
< 1260909349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's not [eax+4]
< 1260909358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is that in AT&T
< 1260909363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has problems reading Intel
< 1260909366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4(%eax)
< 1260909369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1260909373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how is that crazy?
< 1260909400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also [eax+4*ebx+8] is 8(%eax,%ebx,4) -- every *normal* person can read the first one easier. :p
< 1260909413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Intel syntax, all you need to know is that [] means dereferencing and the plus and multiplication symbols
< 1260909414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it all depends which one you are used to
< 1260909429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, if you're a normal person all you need to know is that [] means dereferencing
< 1260909446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, most normal persons doesn't need to know asm at all
< 1260909465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most normal persons don't need to know any programming language.
< 1260909474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I was getting to that
< 1260909475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1260909475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Assuming, of course, a need to know asm.
< 1260909487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most people wouldn't understand what dereferencing meant"
< 1260909488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most normal persons don't need to know any of dem dere "words" or "letters".
< 1260909492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I was going to say
< 1260909516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in west Europe I think illiteracy(sp?) isn't that high
< 1260909521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :western*
< 1260909527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You wouldn't need to know it in exactly those words :-P
< 1260909544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm in the US. Functional illiteracy is very prevalent.
< 1260909565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(total illiteracy, not so much...)
< 1260909585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, seeing the problems some people had with simple pointer arithmetic in C at university recently I suspect there is no easy way to explain it for some
< 1260909599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, functional illiteracy meaning?
< 1260909600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug
< 1260909626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1260909636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see what is wrong with 8(%eax,%ebx,4)
< 1260909637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They are *capable* of reading to some extent, but haven't actually read since high school or college.
< 1260909657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Wrong definition.
< 1260909664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One has to know what each argument means in order to know what the whole thing means
< 1260909671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what postfix notation were you referring to exactly. It seems a strange way to describe that source comes before target in stuff like mov %eax,%edx
< 1260909674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1260909675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are capable of reading, but only barely.
< 1260909676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can recognize that as a memory access but no further
< 1260909693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I meant postfixes on instructions; movl, movw etc.
< 1260909694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1260909709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well okay, it seems like it could try to guess it
< 1260909709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lack of reading capability functions as a serious impediment.
< 1260909719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with either there
< 1260909737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the sigils and the proper argument order those are what make me love AT&T asm
< 1260909755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could live with either indexing syntax
< 1260909783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my view on indexing syntax is that 4(%eax) is not natural
< 1260909795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I could live with AT&T
< 1260909798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fortunately I can choose not to
< 1260909857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I think it is the same as writing 4[myarray] in C basically.
< 1260909860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly fine
< 1260909882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I consider that unnatural too
< 1260909895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something that should be reserved for IOCCC
< 1260909898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that you don't write myindex[myarray,myotherindex,myscale]
< 1260909906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I would hope the majority of C programmers would consider "4[myarray]" unnatural too.
< 1260909918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if %eax(4) is valid, pretty sure it isn't. But maybe it should be.
< 1260909926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you haven't read enough IOCCC then
< 1260909936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IOCCC is not trying to be natural, you know.
< 1260909940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is not natural
< 1260909941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well of course
< 1260909959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, except it underflowed and came out on the other side
< 1260909966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it used unsigned short)
< 1260909973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact it is very natural
< 1260909981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1260910034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it goes like: segment:offset(base,index,scale) iirc
< 1260910039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where segment: is optional
< 1260910049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and offset is signed
< 1260910062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also index and scale are optional
< 1260910073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offset is also optional.
< 1260910075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully.
< 1260910084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes, forgot to mention that
< 1260910084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one would feel really stupid writing 0(%eax)
< 1260910099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would be like eax[0]
< 1260910112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no
< 1260910120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like *(eax)[0]
< 1260910121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1260910128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that C syntax was wrong
< 1260910133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*eax)[0] of course
< 1260910144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I would think it'd be like you couldn't write "*eax", you would have to write "*(eax+0)" instead.
< 1260910162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[eax+0+0*ecx]
< 1260910173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rather similar to people writing char mybuffer[5+1]; to remember the null byte
< 1260910175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly IMO
< 1260910205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote the comp.lang.c faq on the commutativity of subscripting: "unsuspected commutativity is often mentioned in C texts as if it were something to be proud of, but it finds no useful application outside of the Obfuscated C Contest (see question 20.36)."
< 1260910237 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260910242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about %gs:-10(%ebp,%eax,4)
< 1260910250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it
< 1260910260 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260910260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is it in confusing intel syntax
< 1260910272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about segment addressing
< 1260910275 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260910282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1260910288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without that, [ebp - 10 + eax*4] I guess
< 1260910295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be [gs:ebp+4*eax-10], I think.
< 1260910313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm sounds plausible
< 1260910356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is movl $10, (%eax)
< 1260910361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in intel syntax
< 1260910365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov [eax], 10.
< 1260910370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov dword [eax], 10
< 1260910376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1260910378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if I wanted to move a byte then
< 1260910381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1260910385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction
< 1260910389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, you have a longer suffix there
< 1260910390 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov dword ptr [eax], 10
< 1260910404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite, but I know that "mov" is the instruction
< 1260910418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With AT&T I can't be sure what's part of the suffix and what isn't
< 1260910420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with the indirect-o-tron there you need to specify the operand size. But you only need to specify it at all when it's not deducible from the register.
< 1260910431 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the various Forths do for intel ASM
< 1260910436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I know that mov[bwlq] is the instruction.
< 1260910445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well q is only for x86_64
< 1260910446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov [eax], dword 10 works in fasm as well, I think
< 1260910454 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260910494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, instructions very it is meaningful to have different sizes, such as mov, generally takes [bwlq]. But say stuff like cpuid doesn't
< 1260910495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I don't know all instructions by heart I'm glad to know that the first word of a line is the instruction name
< 1260910496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or call
< 1260910508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen callq
< 1260910529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't
< 1260910531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably calll exists then as well, etc.
< 1260910533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where was it?
< 1260910540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In code.
< 1260910544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't memorize these things.
< 1260910544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what code?
< 1260910547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260910569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objdump -d /bin/ls | grep callq
< 1260910570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of results
< 1260910594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay you are right
< 1260910620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I mostly write gcc inline asm and read gcc output, AT&T is a lot more practical
< 1260910644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use -masm=intel :-P
< 1260910655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for dereferencing when it comes to branch ops, you have to use * for indirection instead of the "usual" ()s in AT&T.
< 1260910671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes
< 1260910695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fairly uncommon in inline asm though
< 1260910711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just use -masm=intel :-P <-- wouldn't that break inline asm in system headers?
< 1260910732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me
< 1260910734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Inline asm in system headers?!?
< 1260910738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I murder you.
< 1260910740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't write GCC inline asm
< 1260910744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant it for reading the output
< 1260910750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc htons() checks for gcc and then uses a bswap
< 1260910753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86
< 1260910758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or something like that
< 1260910761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe htonl
< 1260910763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway
< 1260910768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeeeew.
< 1260910778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it uses some bitwise magic as fallback
< 1260910808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and stuff like fpu_control.h would need it
< 1260910821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to Haskell, with its cross-compilation unit inlining
< 1260910844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, duh it uses different variants for different systems
< 1260910856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/bits/byteswap.h: __asm__ ("rorw $8, %w0" \
< 1260910860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more lines
< 1260910868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is collected in one place
< 1260910878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Can't GCC generally optimize bit-twiddling down well?
< 1260910880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think -masm=intel affects the input anyway
< 1260910886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well maybe it is a relic?
< 1260910890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1260910899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a directive in the asm to set it (".intel_syntax"?)
< 1260910901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is a spectacularly messy "one place", though.
< 1260910914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, better than spread out over everything
< 1260910925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, gc.h from boehm-gc contains some __asm__
< 1260910925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's glorious.
< 1260910943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# if defined(__GNUC__) && !defined(__INTEL_COMPILER)
< 1260910944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define GC_reachable_here(ptr) \
< 1260910944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : __asm__ volatile(" " : : "X"(ptr) : "memory");
< 1260910944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# else
< 1260910944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GC_API void GC_noop1(GC_word x);
< 1260910944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define GC_reachable_here(ptr) GC_noop1((GC_word)(ptr));
< 1260910946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1260910948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1260910950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite nasty
< 1260910950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably understandable.
< 1260910958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes it is
< 1260910962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is still hackish
< 1260910963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as hell
< 1260910972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such is Boehm GC.
< 1260910974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__asm__ volatile nice touch
< 1260910988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# if __WORDSIZE == 64 || (defined __i486__ || defined __pentium__ || defined __pentiumpro__ || defined __pentium4__ || defined __k8__ || defined __athlon__ || defined __k6__ || defined __nocona__ || defined __core2__ || defined __geode__ || defined __amdfam10__) /* To swap the bytes in a word the i486 processors and up provide the `bswap opcode. -- */
< 1260910991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, but it's glorious. <-- avoid math headers then
< 1260911005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is split over multiple lines here
< 1260911008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it more readable
< 1260911012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I combined it for IRC.
< 1260911026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it helps much. I mean, the readability is not the problem there.
< 1260911085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about /usr/include/asm
< 1260911096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/asm/byteorder.h: __asm__("bswap %0" : "=r" (x) : "0" (x));
< 1260911100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260911115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc those are kernel includes
< 1260911116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1260911120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-headers package or such
< 1260911124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than libc
< 1260911132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you will like /usr/include/asm/byteorder.h too
< 1260911145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I suspect you will like certain math includes
< 1260911175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in fact /usr/include/tgmath.h is RIGHT up you
< 1260911199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static __inline__ __u64 ___arch__swab64(__u64 val)
< 1260911201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice
< 1260911205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three _
< 1260911206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^
< 1260911213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was from /usr/include/asm/byteorder.h
< 1260911224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from fizzie: 0.90 second(s)
< 1260911224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from fizzie: 1.42 second(s)
< 1260911227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1260911230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh.
< 1260911233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one ping sent
< 1260911239 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260911263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow pongs there
< 1260911267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's again the bouncer with multiple clients connected to it.
< 1260911270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260911284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, go look at /usr/include/tgmath.h
< 1260911286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please
< 1260911289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will LOVE it
< 1260911297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no asm
< 1260911301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so great about tgmath?
< 1260911309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the awesome macros
< 1260911323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find any short enough to paste on irc sadly
< 1260911328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh math.h is pretty fun too
< 1260911359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does all the sin/sinl/sinf by including one internal header three times iirc
< 1260911370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones for double, once for long double and once for float
< 1260911472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for everyone too lazy to read that file
< 1260911474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260911476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define __TGMATH_UNARY_REAL_ONLY(Val, Fct) \
< 1260911476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (__extension__ ((sizeof (Val) == sizeof (double) \
< 1260911476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : || __builtin_classify_type (Val) != 8) \
< 1260911476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? (__tgmath_real_type (Val)) Fct (Val) \
< 1260911476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : (sizeof (Val) == sizeof (float)) \
< 1260911477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? (__tgmath_real_type (Val)) Fct##f (Val) \
< 1260911479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : (__tgmath_real_type (Val)) __tgml(Fct) (Val)))
< 1260911481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1260911484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the shorter examples
< 1260911489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nice eh
< 1260911492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1260911524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we have:
< 1260911526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define atan2(Val1, Val2) __TGMATH_BINARY_REAL_ONLY (Val1, Val2, atan2)
< 1260911529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that
< 1260911537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define log10(Val) __TGMATH_UNARY_REAL_ONLY (Val, log10)
< 1260911541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better example
< 1260911593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, fizzie: well?
< 1260911598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523 too
< 1260911599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1260911764 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260911823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1260911859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523, pikhq: stop being boring and reply :/
< 1260911893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods Deewiant for good measure
< 1260911895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? But boring is what I do best.
< 1260911904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but... that's boring
< 1260911909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Be more interesting so there's something worth replying to
< 1260911924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I thought that macro was fairly interesting
< 1260911930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least fairly horribly bad
< 1260911944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's just a typical use of a gcc extension
< 1260911948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a typical few-liner macro to me :-P
< 1260911956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a twenty line one too
< 1260911957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1260911966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define __TGMATH_BINARY_REAL_IMAG(Val1, Val2, Fct, Cfct) \
< 1260911970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would probably look like a typical few-dozen-liner to me
< 1260911971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't past the rest
< 1260911989 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen C macros before and I don't really see anything particularly interesting here
< 1260912022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a bit of an "the eyes glaze over" problem; it's just this mess of mess.
< 1260912034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://sprunge.us/ZWiF
< 1260912036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure?
< 1260912056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a typically unreadable macro
< 1260912086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing things that should be left to templates or a similar metaprogramming system
< 1260912098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even a dissimilar one.
< 1260912111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lisp macros is the solution
< 1260912120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one solution.
< 1260912173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about #include_next?
< 1260912188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of it.
< 1260912204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it allows system limits.h to include gcc limits.h
< 1260912227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the magic compared to #include
< 1260912242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, looks at the next directory in the include path compared to current
< 1260912251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't use a fixed path
< 1260912261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/limits.h do:
< 1260912263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include_next
< 1260912263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1260912302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, however, just in case, the compiler one do the same with the system one. And then they try to avoid looping each other by checking for it
< 1260912405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh /usr/include/bits/nan.h is simple yet "wtf"
< 1260912407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice
< 1260912419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Looks like a typical usage of GCC extensions in the macro system.
< 1260912419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (__extension__ \
< 1260912419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((union { unsigned __l __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__SI__))); float __d; }) \
< 1260912419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { __l: 0x7fc00000UL }).__d)
< 1260912424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone care to tell me what that means?
< 1260912453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting part of the header is http://sprunge.us/hViC
< 1260912478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Take the integer value 0x7fc00000 as a float.
< 1260912485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reinterpreting the hex value 7fc0_0000 as a float, presumably
< 1260912490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the mode __SI__ bit about?
< 1260912495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260912507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check the GCC attributes page.
< 1260912545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int u_int8_t __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__QI__)));
< 1260912545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int u_int16_t __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__HI__)));
< 1260912545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int u_int32_t __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__SI__)));
< 1260912545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef unsigned int u_int64_t __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__DI__)));
< 1260912557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting
< 1260912558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure it out from there.
< 1260912567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is easy
< 1260912581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it defines size of type
< 1260912584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a rather weird way
< 1260912625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unsigned __attribute__ ((__mode__ (__SI__)))" is, of course, the full type. (freaking C typesystem)
< 1260912626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This in effect lets you request an integer or floating point type according to its width."
< 1260912636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260912717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how modes don't seem to be documented
< 1260912724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260912781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__NTH (__signbit (double __x))
< 1260912781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1260912781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : __extension__ union { double __d; int __i[2]; } __u = { __d: __x };
< 1260912781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return __u.__i[1] < 0;
< 1260912781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1260912785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is rather nasty
< 1260912797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unportable to a system where int isn't half the width of double
< 1260912804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from /usr/include/bits/mathinline.h
< 1260912814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits isn't meant to be portable
< 1260912820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well true
< 1260912840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they need the __extension__ there
< 1260912864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: They're sort-of documented in http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.3.1/gcc/Vector-Extensions.html
< 1260912892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But apparently that list is gone from newer versions, because the base modes are now normal integer types, or some-such.
< 1260912902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great
< 1260912907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the intuitive names, too
< 1260912919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260912928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum
< 1260912928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1260912931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FSETLOCKING_QUERY = 0,
< 1260912931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define FSETLOCKING_QUERY FSETLOCKING_QUERY
< 1260912933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1260912937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every one is defined to itself
< 1260912945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in the new version -- http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Vector-Extensions.html -- that list has been replaced by the use of a vector_size (N) where N is size in bytes.
< 1260912965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to come up with a halfway sensible explanation to use BOTH an enum and a #define
< 1260912970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm unable to
< 1260912995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess compatiblity, since that is the fallback reason for everything
< 1260913001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, we should nuke the preprocessor.
< 1260913003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define could be there so that you can preprocessor-ifdef against it; that's a common reason.
< 1260913010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enum for any other enumy reason.
< 1260913015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the enum happen to have a name?
< 1260913017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, such as?
< 1260913018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260913021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not.
< 1260913026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not in that file at least
< 1260913030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/stdio_ext.h
< 1260913045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it auto-numbers the values.
< 1260913053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1260913055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rather minor thing.
< 1260913058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't a really good reason
< 1260913143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, /usr/include/bits/statvfs.h has such an enum and doesn't auto number.
< 1260913182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Definitions for the flag in `f_flag'. These definitions should be
< 1260913183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kept in sync with the definitions in . */
< 1260913185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gone for a while.)
< 1260913192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they never thought about using a common include I guess
< 1260913844 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260913845 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@82.132.248.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913849 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You there?
< 1260913896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh
< 1260913900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong side of a netsplit.
< 1260913903 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :ineiros_!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913903 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260913970 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rpath on os x: don't worry. Everything is / based internally. Naming a file with / is replaced with :.
< 1260913991 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just seperate on : like normal.
< 1260913997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to Windows.
< 1260914019 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: is special on Windows?—isn't it illegal?
< 1260914033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\hewwo
< 1260914043 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh.
< 1260914082 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simples! Letter at start then colon then backslash meanie no seperato!
< 1260914111 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260914116 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically I think C:foo might be valid for some kinds of FS but meh. Allow forward slash also.
< 1260914125 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since C:/ is quite common.
< 1260914169 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To add C: to the path: C:\:…
< 1260914185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It at least used to be so that "x:foo" meant "foo in the drive-specific current directory on drive x:" -- I don't know anything about modern Windows path-handling though.
< 1260914206 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::C\:\/:C:\\/:C:CC\:CCCC\\C/::::\\////C//C/C/C:\
< 1260914216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you see the issue at hand :P
< 1260914247 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does anyone do that.
< 1260914264 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As ELF files aren't supported on Windows normally, no :P
< 1260914269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do: :: escapes :P
< 1260914271 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tadaaaa
< 1260914283 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C::\poop:…
< 1260914285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" is a valid path.
< 1260914289 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also : can be used to specify additional streams of a file
< 1260914302 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Problemo isnoto!
< 1260914304 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::::
< 1260914320 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :De escapes to ::.
< 1260914340 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260914446 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you actually run ELF programs on OS X?
< 1260914460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes. WTF did you think I was doing?
< 1260914466 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up with ehirdiphone?
< 1260914469 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260914469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260914470 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is talking funny
< 1260914480 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, is it that far ahead
< 1260914498 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260914508 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Tedious phonetyping inspires fun, ja?
< 1260914540 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1260914557 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Technically you could use libraries other than what the library wants yeah? As substitutions
< 1260914565 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic
< 1260914571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's exactly what I do do.
< 1260914590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: To add C: to the path: C:\:… <-- \ alone at the start of a path is valid
< 1260914591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence you can use a Mach-O libc in an ELF executable.
< 1260914592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for network paths
< 1260914594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like \\somecomputer\foo
< 1260914596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1260914598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1260914600 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And—rewrite certain instructions at load time.
< 1260914600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1260914604 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And?
< 1260914622 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes?
< 1260914635 0 :fizzien900!n=user@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260914637 0 :fizzien900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: BZZZZZT THE N900 MAKES ME SPEAK LIKE A RO-BOT.
< 1260914645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, ":" is valid as part of a filename on ext2 too, the only issue is that it's /common/ as part of a path on Windows, so stop getting in a hubbub :P
< 1260914648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → even
< 1260914664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Certain instructions are always rewritten at load time.
< 1260914672 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzien900: The iPhone makes me speak like Steve Jobs. Did you ever meet Nokia's CEO?
< 1260914697 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Say, syscalls.
< 1260914700 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo.
< 1260914717 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any idea what you're ergoing.
< 1260914722 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux binaries … on OS X.
< 1260914751 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that needs changing beyond ELF is the loaded libc and syscalls.
< 1260914752 0 :fizzien900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: No. Just the NRC (Nokia Research Center) head honcho, and even that is stretching the definition of "meet".
< 1260914772 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzien900: Consider that he may be a robot.
< 1260914782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Ah, yes, that's certainly feasible, although it would be easier to just sneak a layer under libc I suspect ... mebbe not.
< 1260914790 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tru.
< 1260914795 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be neat.
< 1260914810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could in *theory* just create a libc that uses different syscalls and an ELF loader.
< 1260914822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope that the program never uses a Linux system call directly.
< 1260914825 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hm ... that's compelling ... I could just replace the syscall with a call to a special function that overloads to whatever the user would like, then define the entire interface as standard C, and run Linux binaries on ... anything.
< 1260914833 0 :fizzien900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260914842 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOPE's Obviously Only Partly Emulating
< 1260914872 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gregor already has the loader.
< 1260914877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right.
< 1260914890 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anything x86
< 1260914894 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS
< 1260914894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have tested it with Linux binaries... I know the thing works just fine.
< 1260914908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to alias libc.so.6 and libdl.so.2 and see how far that gets me, please hold.
< 1260914910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1260914922 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything of the binaries arch
< 1260914943 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try it on a BSD ELF binary.
< 1260914944 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-5-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260914958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, calling conventions
< 1260914959 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like shooting babies in an orphanage.
< 1260914964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Actually, modern Linux binaries do system calls through the Linux call gate.
< 1260914982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make the ELF loader just load in the proper call gate.
< 1260914984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260914998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OS X's calling conventions are not different from Linux's calling conventions.
< 1260915012 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260915015 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be the start of something beauthorrible.
< 1260915024 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1260915032 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, forgot to backspace.
< 1260915036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not same numbers on different systems
< 1260915044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah
< 1260915054 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ...so rewrite them
< 1260915065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows ones are
< 1260915066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly for x86-64
< 1260915070 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to doing what he was doing in the first place :P
< 1260915097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows is the only OS that insists on fucking up calling conventions at all costs.
< 1260915117 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so?
< 1260915126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well, non-trivial to do on the fly, probably easier to put a thunking layer in between
< 1260915128 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be on the actual computomotron tomorrow. I'll play with this crap (EXTREMELY LITERALLY) if I am.
< 1260915140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well yes
< 1260915145 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean like. A call gate?
< 1260915160 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS IN WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING
< 1260915175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The call gate is dynamically linked, yes...\
< 1260915176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, what about apps that uses X11
< 1260915186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more work there I suspect
< 1260915192 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1260915204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well, this would be for libc too for windows calling conventions
< 1260915215 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone shoot AnMaster, hes
< 1260915223 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About quarter of an houe behind.
< 1260915226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, oh I thought you meant modify the calling sequences to libc at load
< 1260915226 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hour.
< 1260915231 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's.
< 1260915235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to let this conversation I started spiral out of control without me.
< 1260915238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, patch the machine code
< 1260915240 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: >_<
< 1260915250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope, just have an alternate implementation of system calls.
< 1260915256 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A vital step in parenting.
< 1260915283 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So uh. Self modifying code.
< 1260915293 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code that examines itself too.
< 1260915300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then calling convention would be irrelevant
< 1260915302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1260915302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That code sucks.
< 1260915303 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IN TGE DICJINS WLL YOU DOOO MISTER
< 1260915318 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO DOES YOUR MOTHER
< 1260915320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, does he need to do anything special?
< 1260915332 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he's rewriting code, yes.
< 1260915338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260915343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, tell that to Deewiant
< 1260915352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, except that the Linux callgate is a handful of actual functions wrapping the most efficient way to do system calls...
< 1260915353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points to dobelx64 already mentioned today
< 1260915379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that does it's own system calls iirc
< 1260915397 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? We can handle that.
< 1260915405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to wait for everybody to finish pouting over problems that are entirely irrelevant in every conceivable way.
< 1260915417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it uses the call gate
< 1260915426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1260915437 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pouts all over Gregor's face.
< 1260915445 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god I regret that
< 1260915452 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY
< 1260915483 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crickets*
< 1260915536 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem.
< 1260915601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no not the call gate
< 1260915603 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll never kill the conversation again I swear!
< 1260915609 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't leave me!
< 1260915618 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260915621 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, AnMaster.
< 1260915621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn right you won't, you're going to conversation-killing PRISON.
< 1260915631 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260915637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, he does syscall directly
< 1260915641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the asm instruction
< 1260915649 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets anally raped by a conversation in prison
< 1260915652 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow.
< 1260915665 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; "anally violated".
< 1260915665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dammit, AnMaster. <-- why?
< 1260915690 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reviving the conversation just as I lamented it's parting.
< 1260915698 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its
< 1260915699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry
< 1260915702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice
< 1260915706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was busy reading asm
< 1260915706 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you do that, iPhone.
< 1260915720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what?
< 1260915736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, anyway it's the middle of the week
< 1260915738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you here
< 1260915762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I dislike that, just surprised)
< 1260915792 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ducks.
< 1260915909 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hit mw with. Link to that loader thing.
< 1260915923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, logs :P
< 1260915933 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow, I should have typpen more carefully there.
< 1260915944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/gelfload/
< 1260915968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivially simple, yet apparently exciting to the extreme :P
< 1260916019 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260916040 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pingeriffic.
< 1260916045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, #define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN <-- interesting
< 1260916054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually exists?
< 1260916061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it prevent including?
< 1260916066 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"
< 1260916066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who friggin' knows.
< 1260916078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well you used it
< 1260916079 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.233.74 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260916083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/gelfload/hg/index.cgi/file/666ac7de7f97/src/bbuffer.c
< 1260916089 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware.
< 1260916095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone recommends its use.
< 1260916096 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. I missed thugs
< 1260916096 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I use it.
< 1260916098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260916099 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things
< 1260916099 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno what it does.
< 1260916105 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to todays log pls
< 1260916112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, topic
< 1260916125 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPhone replaced plz with pls XD
< 1260916131 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Keyword todays
< 1260916133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, good thing
< 1260916144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, you are lazy, it is at the top, sorted
< 1260916153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really →→
< 1260916156 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'd just
< 1260916161 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather AVOID
< 1260916163 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260916163 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading a
< 1260916166 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gigantic
< 1260916169 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page
< 1260916172 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On
< 1260916173 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My
< 1260916175 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPhone
< 1260916178 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See why?
< 1260916179 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way you can just copy dotfiles from one computer to another
< 1260916187 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have all the settings copy too
< 1260916192 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way you can jump up
< 1260916197 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then get this
< 1260916197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOOSE AND SQVIRREL
< 1260916200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1260916212 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity does all he work of wutomtaically vrining you down
< 1260916219 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automatically. Beijing.
< 1260916222 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi from my new computer, everyone
< 1260916222 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1260916226 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bringing.
< 1260916240 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for iphone autocorrect?
< 1260916253 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite
< 1260916270 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its berry you's full.
< 1260916319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, specs
< 1260916320 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all I need to do is reinstall software
< 1260916326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a spelling chequer / it came with my pea sea. / It plainly Marx for my revue / mistakes I cannot sea.
< 1260916328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also two arrows, invalid, thus doesn't count)
< 1260916341 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: imagine a netbook, that's been hastily powered up so as to render it capable of running a non-crippled version of Win7
< 1260916344 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260916350 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore is over the top for anything I want to do
< 1260916351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, brand?
< 1260916354 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toshiba
< 1260916358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and size?
< 1260916364 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.6 inches
< 1260916371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1260916373 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller and lighter than what I'm used to
< 1260916373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so small
< 1260916379 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and small for weight reasons
< 1260916384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, horrible keyboard I bet
< 1260916386 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the screen res is a bit better than on the last one
< 1260916388 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1260916394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyboard's decent
< 1260916400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except ` and \ are in stupid places
< 1260916400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, small keys?
< 1260916403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one either side of the spacebar
< 1260916407 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No insulting Toshiba laptops, they're good. But ignore ais523_, he buys shit computers because he hates spending money.
< 1260916411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are actually the same size as before
< 1260916414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: heh
< 1260916416 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a good netbook.
< 1260916422 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not a good laptop.
< 1260916424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: it's too powerful to really be a netbook
< 1260916434 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.6 is a netbook
< 1260916438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has a whole 3GB of memory
< 1260916446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size is not the only thing that determines netbookness
< 1260916452 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"
< 1260916457 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol at weight reasons though
< 1260916460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3GB, incidentally, because Windows won't use all of 4GB, and it came with Windows)
< 1260916468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: you try carrying a laptop six miles down a canal
< 1260916470 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you actually have muscles in your arms?
< 1260916472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did once, it was painful
< 1260916479 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you opt for the cheaper option
< 1260916488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wasn't the cheapest one there
< 1260916489 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bone and a little skin coating
< 1260916497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260916511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you want to laugh at me, laugh at me for putting a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit computer
< 1260916518 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Try buying a bag
< 1260916528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bag
< 1260916532 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops wait. Money
< 1260916535 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1260916540 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just teasing.
< 1260916541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought one yesterday for the laptop
< 1260916567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you will use 64-bit linux on it right?
< 1260916572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 32-bit linux
< 1260916579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the windows is 64-bit, it can't really handle it
< 1260916586 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there ever is an #esoteric meetup I will merely repeatedly divert the topic to how much better my laptop is
< 1260916589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Windows Experience Index benchmark thing
< 1260916592 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I don't have one
< 1260916596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this computer scores 3.1
< 1260916604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well windows 64 bit is worse than windows 32 bit
< 1260916607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the help files, you need 3 to run Aero, and 4 to run more than one program at a time
< 1260916611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same is not true for linux
< 1260916613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME
< 1260916614 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN was recently covered by the rather good Old New Thing: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2009/11/30/9929944.aspx
< 1260916615 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 8 btw
< 1260916617 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iirc
< 1260916643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 64-bit is less efficient unless you have more than 4 MiB of memory or repeatedly do 64-bit arithmetic
< 1260916645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just like to note that the only issues I've had on 64-bit Linux are issues with obscure scientific packages I've had to futz with for work...
< 1260916652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can only fit half as many pointers into cache
< 1260916654 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone want to transcribe my voice to the channel?
< 1260916657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and half as many native-sized ints
< 1260916657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... Or use shared libraries.
< 1260916662 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be rather less tedious.
< 1260916672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more GP registers
< 1260916682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so better register allocation
< 1260916688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also better calling convention
< 1260916694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since more stuff is passed in registers
< 1260916714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(position independent code on x86_32 soaks up a whole register, and there's not many of them available)
< 1260916718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on 32-bit x86 they are all passed on stack
< 1260916721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what pikhq said
< 1260916726 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 4 *M*iB? XD
< 1260916732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, GiB
< 1260916737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen res is about the same as the old one
< 1260916741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly wider, slightly less tall
< 1260916769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1366 x 768
< 1260916771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This issue does not really apply to Windows at all.
< 1260916773 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how Dasher might be on the iPhone.
< 1260916777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well indeed
< 1260916784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it doesn't use PIC
< 1260916798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one was 1280x800
< 1260916802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so in fact 64-bit linux will likely be better than 32-bit
< 1260916804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you
< 1260916806 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC is pretty irrelevant with virtual memory.
< 1260916812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they just relocate the damned library to each program's load address.
< 1260916814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I've installed this now
< 1260916818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: It's relevant for shared libraries.
< 1260916823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's unlikely to make a noticeable difference
< 1260916826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you will regret it in the long term
< 1260916831 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shared libraries are ahit
< 1260916833 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahit
< 1260916834 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit
< 1260916836 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1260916839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you'll want to map the library into different addresses in different processes...
< 1260916842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but they are used
< 1260916845 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No he won't
< 1260916850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, when your distro is done *shurg*
< 1260916857 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Te difference ia neglegible
< 1260916858 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The
< 1260916859 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is
< 1260916865 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He won't regret it.
< 1260916882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think it at least has a dual-core processor
< 1260916907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no it doesn't
< 1260916909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just single as before
< 1260916914 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom?
< 1260916923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Genuine Intel(R) CPU U2700 @ 1.30GHz
< 1260916931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sticker on it says "pentium", but not which version
< 1260916933 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, ULV.
< 1260916934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a pentium 1!
< 1260916946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's ULV?)
< 1260916953 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultra low voltage
< 1260916960 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultra low performance
< 1260916975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much what I wanted
< 1260916983 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom wants that.
< 1260916996 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An #esoteric meetup would be cool.
< 1260916999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917000 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917001 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260917001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what I use computers for, mostly/
< 1260917005 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& scary
< 1260917027 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, who needs relocatable code? Just recompile your code into memory each time it is loaded. If that is not practical, your code is too big and your compiler is slowed down by unnecessary language features.
< 1260917056 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917086 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun & scary: see #esoteric meetups, duck binging.
< 1260917099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also scary: wtf would someone DDOS Freenode?
< 1260917106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that's what's been causing all the netsplits
< 1260917120 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck binging: the giving of copious amounts of alcohol. To ducks.
< 1260917138 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric meetups: See duck binging.
< 1260917201 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where?
< 1260917219 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sealand.
< 1260917223 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917223 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917235 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brb
< 1260917617 0 :ehirdiphone_!n=ehirdiph@82.132.139.144 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260917674 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260917851 0 :ehirdiphone_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehirdiphone
< 1260918388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260918388 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918389 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@82.132.139.144 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :ineiros_!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918389 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918390 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog
< 1260918390 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918402 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan.
< 1260918408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehirdiphone
< 1260918421 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1260918471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1260918508 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"
< 1260918521 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.233.74 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260918526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehirdiphone
< 1260918534 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan.
< 1260918749 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISSONANTLY BYE BYE
< 1260918751 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260918928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918929 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918930 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260918930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260919359 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-53-41.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260919359 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260920424 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260920812 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-32.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260922814 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260924190 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-99-161.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260924190 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed. (Damnit, the bloody door's stuck again!)
< 1260924192 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed. (Damnit, the bloody door's stuck again!)
< 1260924669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a revolving door, i see
< 1260924690 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was used to commit a murder
< 1260924710 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the blood somehow reacted with the paint to cause it to stick harder than superglue
< 1260924731 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there are two of them
< 1260924811 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260925262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HaskellLllama
< 1260925414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1260926613 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260928897 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"
< 1260930620 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260930627 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260933333 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"goshdarnit."
< 1260933389 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260933776 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260934728 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260934889 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1260936591 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260938571 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260938688 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940079 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940079 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940080 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940080 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940080 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940080 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940152 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940153 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940153 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940299 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940299 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940299 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940310 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940310 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940310 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940354 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940354 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940354 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940642 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260940912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940912 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940912 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940913 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940913 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940913 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260940962 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260941027 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941312 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941390 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260941452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941452 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941452 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941452 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941453 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941474 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941474 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941663 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941663 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941664 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941664 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941664 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941665 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941703 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941744 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941744 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941744 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260941857 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941857 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941958 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941958 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260941958 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942201 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942201 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942201 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942201 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942201 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942202 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942231 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942231 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942759 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942921 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942921 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942937 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942937 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942937 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260942998 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942998 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260942998 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1260943050 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943050 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943051 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943051 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943051 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943193 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943193 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943353 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943388 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :HaskellLllama!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943388 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943399 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943399 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943399 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260943438 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943438 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260943438 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260944131 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260944323 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260946073 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260946730 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260946840 0 :HaskellLllama!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament
< 1260948378 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260950399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1260950400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260951365 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260951381 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260952020 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260953418 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260953452 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260953528 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260954798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260955526 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1260959409 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260965739 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260971372 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260971433 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260972885 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@78.88.180.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260973560 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260973568 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260973799 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260974181 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my
< 1260974185 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have created a frankenstei
< 1260974186 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n
< 1260974201 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of an accumulator, Brainf**k and Nybblings(my own crappy creation)
< 1260974313 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has cell memory, a callstack and an accumulator
< 1260974417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 commands
< 1260974461 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m3b592645
< 1260974778 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m190665e0 - new command
< 1260975551 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975552 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975552 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975553 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975696 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260975696 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260976069 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976103 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976161 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976161 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976280 0 :asiekierka2!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260976621 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260976625 0 :asiekierka2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka
< 1260977205 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260977766 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260977895 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977895 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977895 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977895 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260977896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978015 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978015 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978017 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978170 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978182 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174-16-203-47.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978356 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978374 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978374 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260978409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc
< 1260978423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. remind me, read it hours ago
< 1260978433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cliffhangers
< 1260978438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes
< 1260978439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260978553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you get xkcd today at all
< 1260978640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1260978815 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978815 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978815 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978817 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978817 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978821 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978821 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978821 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260978827 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260979317 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@174.16.203.47 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260979317 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-99-161.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979317 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979333 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1260979334 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979334 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster_
< 1260979336 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979349 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260979357 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1260979357 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1260979365 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster
< 1260979487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has Freenode stopped being DDOSed yet?
< 1260979516 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260979524 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something else happened
< 1260979834 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980207 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980207 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980245 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980292 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980292 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980292 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980322 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980322 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980325 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980325 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980326 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260980350 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980350 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980417 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster_
< 1260980633 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980633 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980633 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980633 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260980633 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260981230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260981290 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1260981322 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260981465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1260981475 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260981619 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982135 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982135 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982136 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded
< 1260982136 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision
< 1260982136 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :anm_ub!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-233.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-99-161.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982136 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982228 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982228 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982229 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260982275 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :anmaster|noteboo
< 1260982327 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982333 0 :anmaster|noteboo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :anmaster|laptop
< 1260982346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster|laptop: your computer just changed size?
< 1260982453 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no?
< 1260982454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a notebook, now it's a laptop
< 1260982456 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, the point here was that it wasn't a noteboo
< 1260982462 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a notebook/laptop
< 1260982462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260982468 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was a netbook
< 1260982472 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netbook != notebook
< 1260982472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this is somewhere between a netbook and a subnotebook
< 1260982500 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, notebook = "new name for laptop since it was discovered that actually using it on your lap isn't such a good idea"
< 1260982510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1260982515 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260982516 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ehird claimed that
< 1260982522 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for temperature reasons
< 1260982530 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1260982530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I used to use one on my lap with a duvet in between
< 1260982530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lying in bed
< 1260982535 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to make the matter worse I'm using my desktop keyboard atm
< 1260982537 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synergy
< 1260982553 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just my normal bouncer isn't managing to join all channels before losing connection
< 1260982563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the DDOS is that bad?
< 1260982564 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus an emergency connection for the important channels on my laptop
< 1260982572 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I'm in a lot of channels
< 1260982574 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually
< 1260982580 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this connection just 4 channels
< 1260982592 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my usual is around 70 or so iirc
< 1260982597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that #esoteric is one of those four
< 1260982603 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1260982612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I voluntarily keep myself to a maximum number of channels that fits on the screen horizontally
< 1260982622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a method of preventing myself overchanneling
< 1260982623 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have a vertical list
< 1260982629 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260982629 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to scroll it
< 1260982636 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on my desktop
< 1260982660 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after all I'm on something like 420 or so in total nowdays. Yes I cut down recently
< 1260982720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many do you actually pay attention to conversations in?
< 1260982771 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 70% maybe, not all are high volume. Not all are meant for reading (stuff like log channel for network services on one network, only read it when something bad happened and you need to figure out what)
< 1260982793 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some, like #freenode I only look in when there are lots of splits
< 1260982869 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this nick is moving the nick column too far out.
< 1260982905 0 :anmaster|laptop!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :anmaster_l
< 1260982910 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be better
< 1260982917 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1260983067 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success
< 1260983299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983299 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983299 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983300 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983357 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here we go again
< 1260983359 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983359 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any second now
< 1260983359 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :split again on the other computer's connection
< 1260983420 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983420 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260983489 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983643 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983688 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260983890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs packages
< 1260983925 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you please highlight me
< 1260983928 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to test something
< 1260983929 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this client
< 1260983932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: highlight
< 1260983935 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm worked
< 1260983953 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you now highlight me in /msg to me directly. I think it is still broken there
< 1260983970 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: /msg anmaster_l anmaster_l
< 1260983971 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1260984172 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260984335 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-18.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260984497 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep reading that as /iËhÉ™rdÉŞfoĘŠn/.
< 1260984514 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Y'know, ee-HER-dih-fone.)
< 1260984650 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka's crappy irc server using some network apps: asciinet.ath.cx:6667
< 1260985364 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you have an ath.cx thing. Is that a DynDNS domain name?
< 1260985548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1260985551 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, uorygl
< 1260985560 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asciiland.ath.cx:6667 does the same though
< 1260985973 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, what irc server is it?
< 1260986101 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own
< 1260986104 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosted from my netbook
< 1260986106 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on beware irc
< 1260986107 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1260986120 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has service
< 1260986121 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1260986244 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds 500 milliseconds of delay to asiekierka's enter key.
< 1260986370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my own on beware ircd <-- so not your own then. I was asking about ircd yes
< 1260986378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway *shrug*
< 1260986384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, how many users?
< 1260986411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION see no point in connecting really
< 1260986545 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five?
< 1260986545 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why the sudden decision to get a cloak today?
< 1260986552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1260986552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four
< 1260986555 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 bot, 3 people
< 1260986555 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, excluding services I meant
< 1260986558 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my own as in i host it
< 1260986566 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1260986597 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bot is not a service
< 1260986636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: I'd meant to for a while, just never got around to it
< 1260986641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was in #freenode and thought, why not?
< 1260986788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode should offer something that they could call a "dagger", so that you could get the full cloak-and-dagger experience.
< 1260986953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1260987409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what a dagger could be, though. Something you can stab with.
< 1260987909 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /stab fizzie
< 1260988347 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastebin.com/m3b592645 - bored
< 1260988564 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260988743 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot
< 1260988805 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1260989154 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260989323 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"
< 1260989640 0 :ttthebest!n=theotime@AMontsouris-553-1-5-190.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260989656 0 :ttthebest!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1260990234 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260990449 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dagger deletes an IRC channel and prevents it from being recreated.
< 1260990946 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1260992617 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260993063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the point of time() taking an argument that is a pointer to somewhere to also store the return value
< 1260993070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, normally you just do time(NULL);
< 1260993080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why have that argument there at all. it seems mostly useless
< 1260993092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to take the argument only, wasn't it so?
< 1260993097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards compat, I think
< 1260993101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1260993226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any standard C function to get a random floating point value?
< 1260993241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1260993252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's basically impossible to randomise fairly over the range of floats
< 1260993256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1260993259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are more of them at some places than others
< 1260993286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I need a reasonable random floating point value in the range [0,2*pi)
< 1260993286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1260993305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, random enough to be good enough for a game of pong in this case
< 1260993320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate a random integer from 0 to RAND_MAX and scale
< 1260993320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not for any cryptographically important things
< 1260993326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah sounds best
< 1260993338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When your needs are just "reasonable", you can take the one returned by plain old rand(), floatize, divide by RAND_MAX, and have ais523 write this advice a lot faster than I.
< 1260993380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe divide by (RAND_MAX+1) if you want that half-open interval.
< 1260993424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: be careful there, given that RAND_MAX + 1 may well overflow an integer
< 1260993435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I guess it would be unfair to make it 1/RAND_MAX times more likely to go in one direction
< 1260993442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it probably wouldn't matter
< 1260993488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 0 = 2pi when it comes to trigonometry
< 1260993497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well no, not really, but the effect is that)
< 1260993783 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437590.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260993893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is the #define M_PI in math.h not part of standard C, but instead POSIX only?
< 1260993951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260993964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is XSI even!
< 1260995805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995805 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995805 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995805 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995806 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260995874 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260996503 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260997055 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260997144 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1260997184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260997228 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1260998490 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quitter!"
< 1260998591 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1260999520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260999520 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260999520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260999520 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260999521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1260999521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261000013 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000013 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000013 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000013 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000013 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000013 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000238 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261000715 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261001947 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001947 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :Rembane2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261001948 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-99-161.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-118.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :lifthrasiir!i=JfVakujn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Rembane2!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261001948 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261002532 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Xenonidas
< 1261002697 0 :Xenonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1261003069 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 256ths of a circle? That's not all that strange.
< 1261003291 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 8-bit degrees :P
< 1261003336 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1261003340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, indeed. But it was stored as fixpoint in a 32-bit int
< 1261003344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which made about zero sense
< 1261003363 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's pretty weird :P
< 1261003395 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-48-25.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261003605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, agreed
< 1261003617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, to begin with it is weird that anyone uses fixpoint these days
< 1261003651 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a fixpoint
< 1261003656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the unit is not 1/256
< 1261003666 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's whole numbers, and the unit is smaller :)
< 1261003669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embedded developers use fixed point.
< 1261003747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1261003753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this wasn't for embedded devices
< 1261003768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, to begin with, embedded devices would never use motif
< 1261003776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, it isn't motif
< 1261003779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody should use motif.
< 1261003784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is custom
< 1261003790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it uses X
< 1261003796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a whole lot of other things
< 1261003945 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261004006 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1261004876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, Motif should die. As should the X11 widget library.
< 1261004897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has died :P
< 1261004913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's almost died.
< 1261004932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing in F/OSS ever dies to the point where it simply no longer exists, it's died as much as F/OSS can die.
< 1261004932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about historical software
< 1261004933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The library has not been purged from every UNIX machine.
< 1261004935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitrot
< 1261004967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, Motif hasn't really suffered from that. It's maintained at *least* enough so that it still builds.
< 1261004981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes that is why motif should and most continue to exist
< 1261005046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that applications can build against it
< 1261005046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're talking to someone who wants to nuke all of X11...
< 1261005046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about people who want to try mosaic for example?
< 1261005046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meh".
< 1261005066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, historical software should be accessible IMO
< 1261005066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is part of our history
< 1261005264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005264 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005264 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005266 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005267 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh netsplit ahead
< 1261005287 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look I'm clairvoyant!
< 1261005294 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005295 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ^
< 1261005315 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005320 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1261005330 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait didn't we already do it=
< 1261005336 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/
< 1261005347 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/\/\//
< 1261005367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we did. i think we have officially jumped the shark.
< 1261005374 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes
< 1261005377 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1261005389 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is when it *really* takes off
< 1261005407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats anmaster_l -----###
< 1261005448 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there are complex numbers and quaternions, what about some type of extension to the real numbers that have three "components" instead?
< 1261005468 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for that matter, more than four
< 1261005508 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005508 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005508 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005508 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005508 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are always vectors of any dimension. it is getting multiplication and division with any kind of reasonable properties tham limits it to 1,2,4,8
< 1261005539 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and what about 16?
< 1261005550 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if I'm seeing the correct pattern here)
< 1261005587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new property breaks down at each step. at 16 there isn't anything left, more or less.
< 1261005619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quaternions don't have commutative multiplication, octonions don't have associative
< 1261005626 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1261005638 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then what is the next step to drop?
< 1261005675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005675 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005675 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005676 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261005678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayley-Dickson_construction
< 1261005686 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005686 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005686 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005686 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005686 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261005693 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting
< 1261005734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The algebra immediately following the octonions is called the sedenions. It retains an algebraic property called power associativity, meaning that if s is a sedenion, snsm = sn + m, but loses the property of being an alternative algebra and hence cannot be a composition algebra.
< 1261005740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cayley-Dickson construction can be carried on ad infinitum, at each step producing a power-associative algebra whose dimension is double that of algebra of the preceding step.
< 1261005744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1261005745 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and freenode is being ddosed from what I heard
< 1261005764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some superscripts got lost in the paste, as usual
< 1261005772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: oh for real?
< 1261005790 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, rational
< 1261005793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who did we tick off...
< 1261005820 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that was an oerjanific pun...)
< 1261005838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't, it was an honest question
< 1261005845 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, my reply I meant
< 1261005855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1261005877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess i couldn't expect better while we are discussing octonions...
< 1261005898 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true
< 1261005914 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I always wondered why you can't do integer complex numbers
< 1261005928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who?
< 1261005932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*huh?
< 1261005941 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess the question would be "integer on what form" now when I think more about it
< 1261005957 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a+bi or polar form
< 1261005963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have never heard of gaussian integers?
< 1261005978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sounds strongly familiar.
< 1261005994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_integer
< 1261006062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is that on a+bi or r*e^(i*v)
< 1261006086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+bi
< 1261006092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well okay
< 1261006111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you can make re^(iv) where r and v are integers as well
< 1261006119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be another integer domain I guess?
< 1261006121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1261006147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r*e^(i*v) doesn't make sense as being anything close to integer - e^b is transcendental if b is algebraic != 0, 1
< 1261006215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not closed under sum. in fact it's a famous theorem that different e^(iv) are _independent_ generators as a vector space over rational numbers
< 1261006289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261006289 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261006289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261006290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261006290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261006299 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@64.62.173.65 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261006299 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@131.151.189.189 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261006299 0 :lament!n=lament@24.87.20.163 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261006307 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@209.20.74.36 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261006326 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1261006326 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261006347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well something close to that. trying to look it up
< 1261006360 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, going to sleep
< 1261006368 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1261006372 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1261006377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1261006382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindemann%E2%80%93Weierstrass_theorem
< 1261006449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually it _doesn't_ apply to iv with v integer, since those are obviously _not_ linearly independent
< 1261006478 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, anyone know what a linear combination of infinitely many things is?
< 1261006490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it does apply under the equivalent formulation (Baker) listed
< 1261006522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: requires a notion of limit at the very least...
< 1261006534 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1261006578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's not absolutely convergent, then depends on summation order
< 1261006592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it depends
< 1261006652 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose your set is the set of all functions of the form f(x) = {a, if x <= b; a + (x - b), if x >= b} for real numbers a and b.
< 1261006659 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are all the linear combinations of that?
< 1261006739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the degenerate cases {b = +infinity, a = k} and {b = -infinity, a - b = k} for real numbers k are linear combinations of that.
< 1261006760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitively i think you can converge to anything that has derivatives between -1 and 0
< 1261006774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1261006783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that
< 1261006794 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders taking inspiration from probability spaces.
< 1261006818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait second derivative
< 1261006835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1261006846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1261006855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_linear_ combinations, not just sums
< 1261006861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1261006871 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider something that's like a probability space but without the requirement that the "probability" of the whole thing be 1. I imagine there's a name for that.
< 1261006876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think you basically get everything
< 1261006882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of distribution thingy. Not "distribution", I'm sure.
< 1261006889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous
< 1261006917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on exactly what kind of limit you take i suppose
< 1261006933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: "measure"
< 1261006936 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitively, yeah, I think the linear combinations of that set are the continuous functions.
< 1261006948 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, neat.
< 1261006986 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What precisely, though, if the members of the "probability space" are S and the "probabilities" are T?
< 1261007055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes...
< 1261007091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the things that are integrals of measures are known as "absolutely continuous" functions
< 1261007146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is an even further generation of this, which iirc _is_ called distributions
< 1261007180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then things don't get to be real functions, but instead something called generalized functions
< 1261007218 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributions are too general. I think there's a distribution whose convolution with anything is its derivative.
< 1261007238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes there is
< 1261007263 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's call that thing a measure of S by T.
< 1261007283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait absolutely continuous applies to when the measure itself is absolutely continuous
< 1261007304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right...
< 1261007315 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for some basis set B, consider the set of all measures of B by the real numbers...
< 1261007366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (non-negative) measures, what you get by integrating them are the right continuous increasing functions
< 1261007439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for probabilities at least, also known as cumulative distributions, but a different sense of the word distribution
< 1261007444 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also consider the set of all measures of B by whatever vector space B is a subset of...
< 1261007487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/increasing/non-decreasing/
< 1261007492 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's that thing that's like a tensor product but without ab * c = b * ac? :-P
< 1261007515 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that's called the product space of vectors or something.
< 1261007628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if you ignore scalar product?
< 1261007673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := a(b * c) also dropped at both ends, i presume?
< 1261007714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then iiuc you only retain group properties, so tensor product _as_ groups rather than vector spaces?
< 1261007770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_product doesn't list that directly
< 1261007798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_although_ abelian groups = Z modules, so it's listed indirectly i think
< 1261007812 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm really just talking about the Cartesian product of two vector spaces, made into a vector space the obvious way.
< 1261007872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_product_of_modules, the example section uses a group
< 1261007903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: um but then (ab * c) = a(b * c) = (b * ac)
< 1261007928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1261007946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _cartesian_ product of two vector spaces is not their tensor product
< 1261007949 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1261007968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in fact their direct sum instead
< 1261008020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, product, those are equivalent for modules/vector spaces
< 1261008038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so product, without tensor
< 1261008065 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION giggles at the idea of the sum of two vector spaces.
< 1261008074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_product
< 1261008088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very general categorical concept
< 1261008169 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes
< 1261008294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, as explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_product#Direct_product_of_modules, _finite_ sums and products are the same
< 1261008485 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why call it a sum if it's not a disjoint union?
< 1261008515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disjoint union = sum in the category of _sets_, iirc
< 1261008558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while product = cartesian product
< 1261008583 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders proofs that 0 is not equal to 1, and decides that there isn't much of one anywhere.
< 1261008591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sum and product categorically stem from the universal property concept
< 1261008608 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-32.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261008635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: peano arithmetic or real numbers?
< 1261008666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or von neumann ordinals perhaps
< 1261008681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as cardinality
< 1261008719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for real numbers i think it may be one of the axioms...
< 1261008763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for peano arithmetic: 1 = succ(0). by axiom, 0 is not a successor.
< 1261008815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :von neumann ordinal: {} is clearly a member of 1={{}}, and not of 0={}
< 1261008886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves the cardinality case as an exercise
< 1261009374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brrr
< 1261009380 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders cardinality.
< 1261009385 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dedekind cuts are another possibility.
< 1261009385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at weather forecast
< 1261009414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, that would be as part of proving dedekind cuts fulfil the real number axioms
< 1261009414 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, real numbers? Is there a proof that 0 is not 1 for the real numbers that deserves the word "proof"?
< 1261009436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, it may be one of the axioms
< 1261009566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be part of the definition of "field". from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_(mathematics) : "For technical reasons, the additive identity and the multiplicative identity are required to be distinct."
< 1261009623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, if you remove that requirement you only get a trivial field remaining, because then x = 1x = 0x = 0
< 1261009676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dedekind cuts it's of course easy too, 1/2 is in one but not the other
< 1261010529 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you have to prove that 1/2 is in 1 but not 0.
< 1261010564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1/2 < 1, as rational numbers
< 1261010585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to recurse, apply recursion
< 1261010588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261010608 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261010765 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261011524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261011555 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261011830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261011924 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261012041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261012135 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261012245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261012268 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261012383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261012403 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261014124 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261014133 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@209.20.74.36 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261015513 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what a blue-yellow color would look like.
< 1261015542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably blow
< 1261015545 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how useful it is to try to imagine blue-yellow.
< 1261015570 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've slightly succeeded. I seem to be imagining a slightly yellowish very light blue.
< 1261015809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about green?
< 1261015825 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green is neither bluish nor yellowish.
< 1261015873 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, the colors, ignoring brightness, can be arranged into a plane. There's a red/green axis and a blue/yellow axis. Everything on the blue side of the blue/yellow axis is bluish, everything on the red side of the red/green axis is reddish, and so on.
< 1261015885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i tried to tell him but i couldn't think of a pun that fit
< 1261015945 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "blow" was a pun.
< 1261015982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles^Wblows innocently
< 1261016015 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^W?
< 1261016029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete word in irssi
< 1261016063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: That's a consequence of our three-cone vision, not an intrinsic property of colors.
< 1261016113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1261016197 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at cone cell responsivity spectra.
< 1261016220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sometimes wonders what aliens with completely different color sense would make of our visual media
< 1261016257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just animals, if there are any such
< 1261016279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(black and white vision obviously doesn't count)
< 1261016288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason to believe that the range would even be close to ours, so it's entirely possible that basically everything artificial would be a solid color.
< 1261016309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Two-cone animals exist. e.g. cows.
< 1261016314 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take an existing image. Create two images from it: one whose red component is the original's blue and whose blue is the original's green, and one whose green is the original's blue and the blue is the original's red. Put them side by side, and cross your eyes to as to look at both in the same place.
< 1261016318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1261016323 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't most mammals two-coners?
< 1261016329 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, *that*.
< 1261016348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: however they would still see it as naturally as we do if their cone subset is close enough to a subset of ours
< 1261016365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cone subset/cone set/
< 1261016381 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, except that they wouldn't be able to distinguish e.g. green from purple.
< 1261016403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's not being unable to distinguish things we can i'm pondering
< 1261016462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pondering the fact that virtually all our visual media depends on our three cone vision and therefore the actual physical colors in a picture are probably nowhere close to the true colors of the thing depicted
< 1261016500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i'm pondering is actually the opposite, someone who can distinguish things we cannot and so would consider our media to be horribly mismatched
< 1261016537 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, looking at these spectra, I see that while the blue cone is pretty much orthogonal to the others, the red and green are quite similar.
< 1261016550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall reading somewhere recently that birds have four cones, so they might apply...
< 1261016589 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have a pretty good ability to distinguish red and green, considering that they're apparently similar colors, whereas our ability to distinguish blue and non-blue is more mundane.
< 1261016596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are not intelligent enough to really make a statement on the issue
< 1261016640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might depend on the bird!
< 1261016656 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs.
< 1261016682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the thing i read had a "most" somewhere
< 1261016696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er does the cough mean there was a pun there?
< 1261016723 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it means I'm relatively unsure of what I just said.
< 1261016723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you were talking about intelligence?
< 1261016730 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1261016740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did read about that one parrot
< 1261016748 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex?
< 1261016763 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have friends named after that parrot.
< 1261016765 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs.
< 1261016772 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Look, spaced repetition!)
< 1261016868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think it was n'kisi, found the goodall quote...
< 1261016924 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jane Goodall?
< 1261016946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1261016953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%27kisi
< 1261017258 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I told myself I would do non-actual work on a big project today.
< 1261017272 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll do that now, right after asking 0x44 about Slicehost.
< 1261017304 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except he's not here, so.
< 1261017320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what non-actual work is like
< 1261017434 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like actual work, but easier and more time-consuming.
< 1261017458 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual work is harder and even more time-consuming.
< 1261017458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1261017479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detects a violation of the ordering axioms
< 1261017485 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If those two statements seem to contradict each other, ignore the second one.
< 1261017510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye
< 1261018691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261018930 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261019012 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-168-32.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261019203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261019226 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261019300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261019382 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261019476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261019502 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261019592 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1261019710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261019730 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261020461 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261020721 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125.236.168.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261032001 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261033240 0 :soupdragon!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261036363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH"
< 1261036368 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261036799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1261036800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261037378 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-110.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261037705 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-238-252-34.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261037966 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1261037970 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis
< 1261038387 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261038440 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quitter!"
< 1261040755 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261041385 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041385 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041385 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041386 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041386 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041386 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261041447 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261041489 0 :lifthrasiir!i=gXwEfhms@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261041589 0 :jix!n=jix@188.40.47.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261042564 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261042564 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261045193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1261045413 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-76-251.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261051255 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1261051682 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-76-251.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261052987 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261056861 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261060442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1261061021 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261065993 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261066177 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.96.167.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261066492 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261066998 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261067023 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is AnMaster still connected
< 1261067025 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange
< 1261067041 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since supposedly that computer was unreachable for several hours
< 1261067054 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both over ssh and local terminal
< 1261067195 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is atm running memtest... just in case)
< 1261067292 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261067299 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1261067302 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hours ago
< 1261067303 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me
< 1261067366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn my internet is slow
< 1261067376 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use damn slow linux
< 1261067396 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fox
< 1261067399 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1261067400 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax*
< 1261067440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1261067441 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc = I want cake
< 1261067473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok must have been just that one site
< 1261067486 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I know whatever it was happened between 17:15 and 17:29
< 1261067513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: end of the world. but it got restarted.
< 1261067531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between 17:15 and 17:29, that is. i haven't looked at iwc yet.
< 1261067534 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 17:15:06 was the last log message (doesn't seem related at all, just something from the caching dns server on the computer)
< 1261067552 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 17:29:04 there is "syslog-ng starting up"
< 1261067591 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually hm
< 1261067597 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kern.log is more interesting
< 1261067621 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l iwc
< 1261067632 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is 17:12:51 about attaching sdb (card reader in printer, was turning printer on just as I got home)
< 1261067637 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, err? No
< 1261067643 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaic = as far as I cake
< 1261067643 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/
< 1261067650 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what we are talking about
< 1261067659 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a contest we have, you must have noticed it
< 1261067667 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1261067669 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can say iwc first (only valid between me and oerjan)
< 1261067674 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, follow the link?
< 1261067708 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc
< 1261067718 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you say it
< 1261067720 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1261067725 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask oerjan
< 1261067786 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked oerjan and he said: iwc
< 1261067918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no soup, dragon
< 1261067928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no i didn't
< 1261067948 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261067997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats soupdragon for stealth changing his nick again -----###
< 1261068013 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi. I had some weird issue with a system locking up. Weird as in: didn't respond for hours on ssh. Later on when I got home I found it didn't respond on console either
< 1261068032 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261068037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: seems rather unusual, although I've had that sort of thing too
< 1261068038 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however, no blinking keyboard leds for kernel panic, in fact the keyboard was completely dead, even to sysrq
< 1261068047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could it be a hardware problem?
< 1261068050 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but there was a log message from just before I used it!
< 1261068051 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1261068058 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oerjan for wanting cake
< 1261068060 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh had been locked up for quite a bit
< 1261068065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the system definitely powered on?
< 1261068067 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the log messages stopped
< 1261068074 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, fan was on. and it is loud
< 1261068079 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had to use the reset button
< 1261068079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... forkbomb perhaps
< 1261068091 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unlikely, sysrq should work then, no?
< 1261068112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so
< 1261068120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps memory exhaustion and thrashing
< 1261068122 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and numlock, scrolllock and such should do something when you press them
< 1261068124 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like changing the led
< 1261068139 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, disk is loud in that computer. but it was just spinning idly
< 1261068152 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, no disk seeking and disk light on front of computer off
< 1261068172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange
< 1261068178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... kernel memory corrupted somehow?
< 1261068192 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe. USB devices I tried to connect stayed off btw
< 1261068195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could sort-of explain what happened if some process started trashing memory
< 1261068204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hit sshd first, then the kernel
< 1261068211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that sort of thing usually only happens on Windows
< 1261068240 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1) limits are set up 2) sshd and syslog-ng are both set to have low oom score using the files for that in /proc
< 1261068255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: wow, that's tunable?
< 1261068264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION idly wonders how easily oom score could be improved
< 1261068269 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, you can say "avoid killing this process"
< 1261068273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not talking about out-of-memory, but rather, corrupted memory
< 1261068277 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea for syslog-ng and possibly sshd
< 1261068296 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for memory corruption I ran memtest just last weekend, no issues
< 1261068311 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What computational class is required to increment a number?
< 1261068319 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INC
< 1261068321 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1261068322 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made that up
< 1261068329 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it seems perfectly fine after rebooting, even very few transactions replied
< 1261068334 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about 5
< 1261068348 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it seems to reply a few hundred in case of power failure or such
< 1261068351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: indefinitely, you need infinite memory but very little else
< 1261068354 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo"
< 1261068362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: constant space works but only for little-endian ...
< 1261068377 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1261068378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant space == finite automaton
< 1261068383 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1261068383 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the nummber is 4
< 1261068397 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1261068409 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why does it not work for big endian?
< 1261068428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for big-endian you need to save the length of a carry run...
< 1261068428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: incrementing 4, in particular, is finite-state
< 1261068435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is any other operation which always produces the same answer
< 1261068436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes logarithmic space
< 1261068495 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we are limited by the length of the input number, and it's inputted in binary (any base would work, but I find it easier to think of it that way)
< 1261068502 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw smartctl shows no logged errors or anything
< 1261068506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say when summing 111111 and 000000 you don't know that there is no carry until you have read the last bits
< 1261068509 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we could always decrement a number >0 by 1, but not increment it, right?
< 1261068530 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it all looks completely normal
< 1261068530 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _always_ increment it, that is
< 1261068544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok even little-endian requires you to be able to read the summands in parallel
< 1261068549 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say the biggest number incremented goes back to the start
< 1261068550 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and afaik there is no brown-out to blame it on this time
< 1261068554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1261068580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking addition. INC doesn't need that of course
< 1261068594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, 111111 has problems when reading big-endian
< 1261068623 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers a self modifying FSM
< 1261068647 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one
< 1261068657 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the concept in general
< 1261068658 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1261068675 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if it grew legs and could walk then it grows a brain and becomes alive!
< 1261068681 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1261068734 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an FSM can increment a number, given enough memory.. so if we have a language whose output is bounded by the length of the input, it would need to have a lower computational class than an FSM?
< 1261068755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: but the one number you cannot increment is exactly dual to the 0 you cannot decrement...
< 1261068782 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual?
< 1261068803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under switching 0 and 1
< 1261068804 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but if you're limited to the length of the inputted value, it means you can't increment _any_ value consisting of only ones
< 1261068806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, wait, isn't incrementing by 1 bounded by the length of the input?
< 1261068816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: output bounded by length of input is LBA (by definition), and so /higher/ than an FSM
< 1261068818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it is just one bit more
< 1261068831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean exactly as long
< 1261068832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's bounded to be the same length, or proportional to it, it's LBA by definition
< 1261068839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: and you cannot decrement any value consisting of only zeros. dual, as i said.
< 1261068842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than "in a fixed relation to the length"
< 1261068881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: also, the FSM can increment anything, with its noodly appendages.
< 1261068898 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh
< 1261068901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is this a bad pun?
< 1261068905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1261068910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't get it
< 1261068911 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flying Spagetti Machine
< 1261068915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1261068920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: *Monster
< 1261068925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1261068928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1261068929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *Spaghetti
< 1261068929 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what I'm thinking about is this, but I'm probably wrong: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bipoint
< 1261068952 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, didn't catch the FSM pun :(
< 1261068956 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails
< 1261068961 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CoolL!!!!!
< 1261068994 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can't see how one could increment "11", "111", "1111", ...
< 1261069001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...so if
< 1261069001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... we have a language whose output is bounded by the length of the
< 1261069004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : input, it would need to have a lower computational class than
< 1261069004 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you increment binary?
< 1261069007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : an FSM?
< 1261069009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1261069013 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the only exception of "0" for decrementing
< 1261069020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck cannot irssi be _consistent_ about merging lines
< 1261069036 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decrementing a number is quite trivial to do in Bipoint. Incrementing a number, on the other hand, would be impossible???
< 1261069084 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as I said, I guess I'm wrong then
< 1261069092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: no, it's specifically for INC, little-endian, because you can scan input, print output and keep only constant carry bit as memory
< 1261069110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't work for reversing the input, say
< 1261069118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, stop using irssi
< 1261069123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want something that works well
< 1261069129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1261069129 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly I don't understand the execution
< 1261069161 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._.
< 1261069168 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that the input is read, bit by bit
< 1261069171 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, symbol by symbol
< 1261069181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well normally i would only paste from the logs, which works fine, but the conversation was going so fast i though i should provide context
< 1261069186 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And each time, a decision is made, for which node to continue to
< 1261069194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1261069206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still consistency is not one of the hallmarks of irssi
< 1261069242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FireFly: output bounded by length of input is LBA (by definition), and so /higher/ than an FSM
< 1261069250 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "output" is _always_ of the same length as input
< 1261069253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually LBA can give exponential output
< 1261069276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I meant storage bounded by length of input
< 1261069278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said the wrong thing
< 1261069278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the interpretation that output is not part of the memory
< 1261069291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for correcting me
< 1261069293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the most useful)
< 1261069301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1261069324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can or can not an FSM implement increment?
< 1261069342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for little endian, yes I see the issue with big endian)
< 1261069475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm...
< 1261069500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you can print more than one symbol for a symbol read, yes.
< 1261069508 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.co.uk/group/net.general/browse_thread/thread/479e7ea4fcd78cc5/e809b92fdcc92888?pli=1
< 1261069511 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man lol
< 1261069517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as long as you are allowed to have a "end of stream" symbol or such and are allowed to output 2 or 3 symbols at once
< 1261069534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need 3 if you use a end of stream symbol and want to be able to increment it again
< 1261069551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1261069611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and I haven't seen anywhere that forbids a FSM returning an n-tuple or list of symbols
< 1261069613 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/mdc465d6 <-- soupdragon what about that?
< 1261069638 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execution begins at S, and then moves to the given arrow depending on the next symbol in the input string
< 1261069638 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1261069646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, what language
< 1261069649 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1261069653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some 2D one. but which one?
< 1261069660 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I linked, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bipoint
< 1261069660 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1261069663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've seen that allowed, although it was called a transducer
< 1261069664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1261069666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to be ASCII art of a graph
< 1261069667 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you FireFLy
< 1261069679 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No problem :P
< 1261069682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm okay. I was thinking along the lines of a mealy automaton here
< 1261069728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "A FSA can be considered to be able to produce more than one output signal per transition or state. Or, some transitions may not depend on an input signal at all, moving to a new state automatically. (These two situations are also equivalent, save for the number of states required.)"
< 1261069729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from
< 1261069730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Finite_state_machine
< 1261069771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm looking at wikipedia, which definitely mentions transducers (and mealy automata are in that section)
< 1261069803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer?
< 1261069811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite-state_machine
< 1261069898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but plain accepting/rejecting ones can't produce any output at all can they?
< 1261069908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from being in an accepting/rejecting state at the end
< 1261069929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is exactly one bit of information, no?
< 1261069967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well duh
< 1261070030 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooho
< 1261070035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i suppose you could consider the end state the output, for a little more
< 1261070049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well okay.
< 1261070081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it seems like moore machines dually have no input...
< 1261070083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still that is a finite number of possible outputs, even if input is infinite
< 1261070093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you mean?
< 1261070094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other than initial state)
< 1261070114 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * "10011" would mean that {1, 0, 0, 1, 1} would be pushed to the stack, so it would contain {1, 1, 0, 0, 1}.
< 1261070120 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so complicated!!!
< 1261070121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, clock input
< 1261070138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, isn't moore ones like: "transitions based on input, output based on what state you are in"
< 1261070145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a moore machine cannot depend on what the input is. although it seems it can still synchronize with it
< 1261070152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1261070155 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, soupdragon, that was mostly because if it just read the string the regular way, it would have to take reversed numbers as input, and output reversed numbers as well
< 1261070162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i've misunderstood then
< 1261070166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while mealy are like: "transitions based on input, output based on transitions"
< 1261070177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well I had to learn this for a test a few months ago
< 1261070179 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. 2 would have to be inputted as 01, but with the stacks you can actually input it as 10
< 1261070194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm *pretty* sure that either I'm correct or the teacher and the book was wrong
< 1261070228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you beat me as i'm failing to learn it at this very moment ;)
< 1261070255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moore machines that is. transducers i found in a book (math encyclopedia) years ago
< 1261070277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long ago that i wasn't sure if it was still current terminology
< 1261070285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well think like this. Assuming you represent the FSM as a graph with directed edges. On the edges are attached conditions. Which you use when you in a given state decide which edge to follow
< 1261070287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1261070297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mealy has output on the edges as well
< 1261070304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moore has output on the nodes
< 1261070316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make sense to you?
< 1261070358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1261070366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it seems to agree with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_machine.
< 1261070383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree the text at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite-state_machine#Transducers is confusing
< 1261070453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think transitions on edges are prettier, because then input is entirely dual to output. in fact you can invert a nondeterministic transducer to translate back iirc
< 1261070470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transition on edges? err that's given isn't it?
< 1261070471 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261070480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point was *output* on edges or output on nodes
< 1261070484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *output on edges
< 1261070547 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1261070556 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, also I'm pretty sure you can translate mealy to moore. just you need (possibly a lot) more states
< 1261070556 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also argh lag
< 1261070562 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1261070568 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what I say here go through to there
< 1261070570 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the reverse
< 1261070573 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is weird
< 1261070583 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea about that?
< 1261070605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is weird; IIRC, asiekierka was reporting similar problems a while baclk
< 1261070607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*back
< 1261070632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also I'm pretty sure you can translate mealy to moore. just you need (possibly a lot) more states
< 1261070632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also argh lag
< 1261070637 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I'm having problems seeing why lag would like 1-2 seconds in one direction and 20-30 seconds in the other
< 1261070639 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that
< 1261070647 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even during ddos
< 1261070653 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is still going on
< 1261070706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop
< 1261070714 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y(
< 1261070743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from oerjan: 29.79 second(s)
< 1261070744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 28.08 second(s)
< 1261070746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1261070825 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly can you make a better syntax for it?
< 1261070830 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more readabil
< 1261070862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I couldn't come up with anything easy, except of course a graph, but requiring ASCII art is a bit evil :P
< 1261070872 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, every statement is basically, if pop() == 0 (or 1) then goto A; else goto B ?
< 1261070879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a languitch of ay readabil syntacse
< 1261070893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, is that paste runnable?
< 1261070899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what is a runnable version?
< 1261070909 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bipoint#Example_programs is a runnable version
< 1261070919 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, the paste was a graph to help understanding it
< 1261070934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a languitch of ay readabil syntacse <-- you fail at spelling. Possibly this a pun so mangled I'm unable to trace it
< 1261070947 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLLO
< 1261070950 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you fail if you can't trace it to the row abov it
< 1261070953 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above, even :)
< 1261070969 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, line*, I guess
< 1261070971 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails again
< 1261070981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I'm unable to figure out what "ay" could mean. Only thing I can think of is "aye" which makes no sense
< 1261070994 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a'?
< 1261070996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "may" maybe. but that makes even less sense
< 1261071004 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly answer me please :P
< 1261071010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that isn't pronounced that like that in English though
< 1261071016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it is some weird dialect
< 1261071049 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, well, the syntax isn't the best, but it works. you could of course use C-style syntax if you want, and simply compile it to Bipoint afterwards
< 1261071059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "ay" is the emphasized pronunciation of "a", as far as i've always thought
< 1261071063 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly no no just trying ot undersatnd your statements
< 1261071066 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id : op -> ifZero : ifOne
< 1261071070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as before vowels
< 1261071071 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that means,
< 1261071085 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every line has a unique id, ifZero and ifOne are branches that say which id to go to next
< 1261071088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wouldn't that be closer to "ai"?
< 1261071093 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's op about
< 1261071098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, between "ai" and "ay"
< 1261071099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1261071112 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, and if op is 1, it outputs 1 in the process, before jumping
< 1261071117 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if op is 0, it outputs 0
< 1261071119 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1261071124 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an implementation might be
< 1261071150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: english doesn't use the spelling ai at the end of native words
< 1261071157 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each round of execution is an output of 0 or 1 (except for the starting node), as well as a jump to a new node, depending on if the next value of the stack is 0 or 1
< 1261071160 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id: push(op); pop() ? goto ifOne : goto ifZero;
< 1261071165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i turns to y quite regularly
< 1261071166 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly?
< 1261071175 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, something like that
< 1261071176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, TP did sometimes to enhance a dialectal feeling iirc
< 1261071182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does*
< 1261071183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1261071187 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly is that wrong?
< 1261071197 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I think that should be correct
< 1261071201 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1261071210 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can write a unary increment then
< 1261071212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so you do output on transitions?
< 1261071217 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that turns 111 into 1111
< 1261071220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than on "current state"
< 1261071243 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, no, that wouldn't work, since it can only output as many characters as you input
< 1261071248 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1261071250 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the fixed number of jumps
< 1261071253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so basically that is a mealy automaton with an input alphabet of {0,1} and same for output alphabet?
< 1261071263 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, maybe :P
< 1261071263 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly oh right I see
< 1261071275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, was that "uh maybe" to me?
< 1261071276 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input is always the same size as the output
< 1261071278 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I don't really know that much about computer science and stuff
< 1261071279 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it was
< 1261071286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mealy_machine
< 1261071299 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1261071301 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a binary increment?
< 1261071338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes given that you forbid outputting more than one symbol per transition incrementing is definitely impossible should any carry be needed.
< 1261071349 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why??
< 1261071358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, in bipoint I meant
< 1261071377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay: "should any carry for the last element be needed"
< 1261071377 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking it might be possible to do a binary increment in FireFlys language
< 1261071380 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yeah, I suppose it's something in the lines of that
< 1261071389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get rid of it before that you could manage it
< 1261071391 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, not for values which consists of only 1
< 1261071399 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's undefined on 11111
< 1261071404 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, incrementing 111 would mean 1000, which is an additional character
< 1261071410 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's undefined for any string consisting of only ones
< 1261071413 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or
< 1261071415 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1261071435 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly what does S do?
< 1261071439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you could of course pad it with a zero for the MSB always
< 1261071445 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only for marking the start of execution, soupdragon
< 1261071456 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.. true, that'd work
< 1261071459 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Padding with zeroes, that is
< 1261071460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, I assume it maps to the traditonal S_0 in CS
< 1261071470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you need to pad with exactly one zero
< 1261071478 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec
< 1261071481 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, right
< 1261071485 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I define the identity??
< 1261071486 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's only an increment of 1
< 1261071504 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id_0 : 0 -> id_0 : id_1
< 1261071504 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id_1 : 1 -> id_0 : id_1
< 1261071507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes. I'm not even sure you could do full addition in it
< 1261071513 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work but you need to get started, and what do you do at first??
< 1261071516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, maybe with interleaved bits?
< 1261071518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1261071542 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Campbell, is that you?
< 1261071544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, can things point back to the S state?
< 1261071551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1261071556 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that it can't, why?
< 1261071559 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible to define the identity
< 1261071562 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's almost certainly not him.)
< 1261071564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, why not?
< 1261071577 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why would you need to do that?
< 1261071581 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it?
< 1261071623 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helooo
< 1261071627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, another state needed if you want just two states
< 1261071638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just one state
< 1261071640 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If S points to a value, you just have to point straight to that value instead?
< 1261071652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean?
< 1261071664 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1261071676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, wait, can't you have multiple edges from a single node?
< 1261071692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes
< 1261071693 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly am I right?
< 1261071694 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only have two edges, one 0 and one 1?
< 1261071696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define them on the same row
< 1261071698 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, about what?
< 1261071708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and you output depending on state, not on transtion
< 1261071713 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly well you can do
< 1261071716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it isn't a mealy clearly, but a moore
< 1261071722 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start : S -> id_0 : id_1
< 1261071726 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you were half way through a computation
< 1261071733 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you wanted to do identity for the rest of the data,
< 1261071733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that
< 1261071737 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way - is there?
< 1261071771 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..how is identity defined? :)
< 1261071783 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pasted it already
< 1261071792 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah
< 1261071807 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary_increment : S -> inc_0 : inc_1
< 1261071808 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc_0 : 1 -> id_0 : id_1
< 1261071808 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc_1 : 0 -> inc_0 : inc_1
< 1261071808 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1261071815 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the binary adding program then
< 1261071849 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns 11101 into 00011 (read them backwards)
< 1261071873 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, I guess that would work
< 1261071950 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1261071974 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMasters idea for adding works too
< 1261071989 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might interleave the digits and outpute 0a0b0c0d
< 1261071995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where abcd is the real data
< 1261072007 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And take input the same way?
< 1261072010 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that would probably work
< 1261072033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1261072042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, wait, do you define 1 to be the start state
< 1261072050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, what is the output of it?
< 1261072053 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1261072055 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im using named labels instead of numbers
< 1261072056 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean?
< 1261072057 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1261072061 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I noticed :P
< 1261072062 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's more readable
< 1261072065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so the first state can not produce an output?
< 1261072076 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S can't produce output, that's right
< 1261072079 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the other nodes can
< 1261072088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and is 1 = S here
< 1261072090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the example
< 1261072091 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster if S had to output you couldn't write the identity
< 1261072097 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1261072101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1261072113 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1261072118 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly you can define AND and OR in the same way as that ADD
< 1261072120 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and XOR
< 1261072130 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the start would have to preserve the first value?
< 1261072145 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can define every function Bool^n -> Crap^n-1 * Bool
< 1261072158 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's correct?
< 1261072217 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every function not quite what I meant
< 1261072281 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that characterization isn't good because it only works for fixed n, but you can define programs over all n in this language
< 1261072684 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to classify the language bipoint?
< 1261072752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so the decrementing automaton is basically http://omploader.org/vMzBuNw
< 1261072756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understood it right?
< 1261072780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where state numbers are preceded by S
< 1261072791 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1261072793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should really be S_number
< 1261072798 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matches my hand drawn graph
< 1261072804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where _ detonates same as in LaTeX)
< 1261072810 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that I didn't print state numbers
< 1261072814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that was drawn with Dia
< 1261072821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be worth trying
< 1261072826 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, sounds interesting
< 1261072830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, open source
< 1261072833 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better approach than ASCII art :P
< 1261072859 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that should match the paste I posted
< 1261072864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, sadly didn't have predefined connections and such for state machines
< 1261072872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to do circle, arrow and text separately
< 1261072886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having it as a circle or arrow with special properties
< 1261072903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you could use graphviz to auto generate from the code
< 1261072915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would require just a sed script
< 1261072918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1261072922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be trivial in any case
< 1261072927 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds neat, I'll check that out :D
< 1261072938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, simple script to generate a .dot file for graphviz
< 1261072952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if neato would be the best layout engine here
< 1261072959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neato or fdp I suspect
< 1261072961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than dot
< 1261072991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe not
< 1261073011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they aren't well order in a hierarchy yeah
< 1261073024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Better approach than ASCII art :P <-- yes. Mine is actually readable
< 1261073056 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could read the ascii
< 1261073112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to write a bipoint → graphviz converter and do it in a language that will be highly inconvenient for most people
< 1261073124 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brb
< 1261073132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe clisp
< 1261073138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or prolog?
< 1261073141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1261073142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1261073147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang sounds good.
< 1261073978 0 :ttthebest!n=theotime@AMontsouris-553-1-5-190.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261073984 0 :ttthebest!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1261074644 0 :ttthebest!n=theotime@AMontsouris-553-1-5-190.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261074647 0 :ttthebest!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1261074664 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@95.209.20.34.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261075247 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1261075613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, actually a 50 line bash script did the job
< 1261075714 0 :jpc1!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261075802 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1261076194 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1261076194 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1261076470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, do you have any larger example program?
< 1261076479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say 20-50 states or so
< 1261076637 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I'm afraid not
< 1261076835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, what chars are valid in state names?
< 1261076846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just numbers?
< 1261076851 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1261076878 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /\d+/, that'd be
< 1261076888 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No negative numbers, no floats
< 1261076903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you mean [:digit:]+ ?
< 1261076912 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, I guess
< 1261076923 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I prefer Perl-style regex
< 1261076930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, is there an interpreter?
< 1261076941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, go write one
< 1261076943 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories: Languages | Unimplemented | 2009 | Unusable for programming | Stack-based | Unknown computational class | Low-level
< 1261076953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it should be trivial to implement.
< 1261076959 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, it should
< 1261076964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I would recommend erlang
< 1261076967 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't feel like doing it atm
< 1261077065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, what is the official file extension?
< 1261077179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, http://sprunge.us/bFYU?bash
< 1261077184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that is interesting
< 1261077201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, forgot to remove one unused variable there
< 1261077210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 41 can be removed
< 1261077298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hope that is "useful"
< 1261077304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone should add it to the wiki
< 1261077330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would one add http://sprunge.us/bFYU?bash to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bipoint
< 1261077332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add or link that is
< 1261077355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a permanently up website?
< 1261077360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is a pastebin
< 1261077361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add it with normal external link formatting
< 1261077366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it expire?
< 1261077366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no idea if it will expire
< 1261077373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: paste it in one that you know won't expire, then
< 1261077376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no clue. And I don't have my own hosting any more
< 1261077381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pastebin.ca with expiry turned off
< 1261077382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm
< 1261077394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the format for a link is [http://example.com/website link text]
< 1261077399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another thing: does that count as an implementation?
< 1261077404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it translates to graphviz
< 1261077410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than runs it
< 1261077411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, but it's stilly useful
< 1261077413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still
< 1261077423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will work fine in the external resources section
< 1261077429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you can help me recover my wiki account password yes
< 1261077436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no email and lost password
< 1261077441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can't be recovered, then
< 1261077443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't create new, recovery is only option
< 1261077447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you're supposed to set the email
< 1261077452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's the only way to recover
< 1261077462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I did set it. but the confirm thing didn't work
< 1261077463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or you'll have to ask graue to change the stored email for you
< 1261077467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I never got the confirm mail
< 1261077469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ouch
< 1261077477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so well it's fail
< 1261077523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still. I should implement a "svg interpreter for this. So you have to do bipoint->graphviz->svg to interpret it
< 1261077529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the hilarity
< 1261077532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sp?)
< 1261077543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelt correctly
< 1261077609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway. I strongly suspect that bipoint is exactly equivalent with a More automaton with input and output alphabet {0,1} and that can only output one symbol for each input symbol
< 1261077627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about the bit that the initial state can't have output
< 1261077633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all other must
< 1261077643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this imposes further restrictions
< 1261077663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think that last bit affects it?
< 1261077728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I haven't really thought of it
< 1261077733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh, laaaaaag
< 1261077734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy doing something completely different
< 1261077741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, now I just got a wall of text
< 1261077755 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, everything from [19:08:30]