00:00:03 tor dec 31 23:59:39 UTC 2009 00:00:09 fre jan 1 00:59:44 CET 2010 00:00:17 fre jan 1 00:59:53 CET 2010 00:00:18 Hope my sleep schedule is unfucked for tomorrow a little bit. Doctor Who at 18:40 00:00:19 fre jan 1 00:59:55 CET 2010 00:00:22 fre jan 1 00:59:58 CET 2010 00:00:23 fre jan 1 00:59:59 CET 2010 00:00:25 fre jan 1 01:00:00 CET 2010 00:00:27 happy new year! 00:00:28 Happy New Year! 00:00:29 (UTC) 00:00:34 coppro, hah I was closer! 00:00:34 O2 is a British mobile netvork 00:00:42 Lol my first line 00:00:45 curses 00:00:46 Of thr new year 00:00:51 Is about o2 00:02:05 ehirdiphone, haha 00:02:05 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:02:29 coppro, hm does UK have any tradition of new years promises? 00:02:36 no clue 00:02:38 I'm not in the UK 00:02:47 coppro, if so, what did " O2 is a British mobile netvork" mean as a new year's promise 00:02:50 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 00:02:52 POOP 00:02:54 ehirdiphone: 00:02:56 haha 00:02:57 coppro, hm does UK have any tradition of new years promises? 00:02:59 coppro, if so, what did " O2 is a British mobile netvork" mean as a new year's promise 00:03:07 New years resolutions 00:03:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:03:09 ehirdiphone, ^ 00:03:18 ehirdiphone, ah is that what you call them there 00:03:22 -!- augur has joined. 00:03:35 ehirdiphone, I heard DNS servers make a lot of them 00:03:39 ie "I WILL STOP BEING A FAT FUCK W THE LATEST FAD DIET" 00:03:45 "for a week" 00:03:51 yeah 00:03:53 exactly 00:03:54 AnMaster: Eh? 00:03:58 DNS? 00:04:02 ehirdiphone, sorry very bad pun 00:04:16 resolution - resolve - DNS server 00:04:22 Ouch. 00:04:55 It ain't 2010 til clog rolls around. 00:05:06 ehirdiphone, I'm *pretty* sure that "resolution" "resolve" both come from the same "base" or whatever you call it 00:05:11 "ordstam" in Swedish 00:05:12 Yes 00:05:18 Root 00:05:22 ah 00:05:25 here it is "word trunk" 00:05:26 literally 00:05:59 aaaaand that hides another pun that only works in Swedish 00:06:03 and is very very far fetched 00:06:16 at least I only think it works in Swedish 00:06:38 ehirdiphone, or do you have a term for criminals and such which is close to "shy of light" or such 00:06:43 would be some sort of slang 00:06:57 Not ringing a bell. 00:07:00 meh 00:07:04 then it only works in Swedih 00:07:09 Swedish* 00:07:10 DUCK ADVENTURES 00:07:16 huh? 00:07:19 Yes. 00:07:29 ehirdiphone, IDGI 00:07:32 sadly 00:07:41 I DUCK get it 00:07:55 ehirdiphone, when wil you be off your iPhone to read logs? 00:08:09 *will 00:08:10 Diets don't work. You need lifestyle change. :-> 00:08:17 I love taunting Sgeo. 00:08:24 ehirdiphone, ouch 00:08:26 Ilari: yep 00:08:40 that was about the "I DUCK get it" 00:08:51 ehirdiphone, second to last Fine Structure story was released 00:09:05 ooh, I will keep an eye on them 00:09:11 Ilari: recent events have turned me more and more to your views on commonly accepted nutrition... 00:09:27 Sgeo: I read what you said days ago. 00:09:31 :D 00:09:45 I haven't been reading FS. 00:10:25 ehirdiphone, I recall that you stated that you wanted to read it when it's all done. Well, it's going to be done soon 00:10:38 Alrighty then 00:11:48 Reading list, unordered: The Culture books, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, Fine Structure, finish reading all the Discworld books 00:12:48 Speaking of books, here's my review of "And Another Thing…": very high quality fan fiction. Make of that what you will. 00:12:52 Oh, remember when I said TMoPI had sex and violence? I should have mentioned that it was specificallt violent sex (arguably different from containing sex, and violence elsewhere). Most of it's consensual though 00:13:19 "Detail is IMPORTANT!" 00:13:21 *specifically 00:13:24 lol 00:14:04 Violent consensual sex? a-ok. BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT VIOLENT RAPE 00:14:19 (Nonviolent rape is okay, DUH.) 00:14:25 * SimonRC goes to bed. 00:14:49 I said mostly. There is nonconsensul violence 00:15:08 Consensual violence! 00:15:12 I agree that And Another Thing is not very Douglas Adams-y 00:15:16 Not kinky or anything. 00:15:22 from the bits I have heard 00:15:25 Just "PUNCH ME" 00:15:37 SimonRC: It's a... Good imitation. 00:15:52 The book is good but it's not Adams 00:15:54 I found some things a bit out-of-character 00:15:58 but maybe that's just me 00:15:58 I enjoyed it 00:16:04 Some have said about books about human biochemistry: First look at the diagrams of what leads to what. Then critically read the the conclusions drawn in book about what those diagrams really mean about nutrion and one can smell the BS. No idea if its true as I haven't seen such books. 00:16:05 SimonRC: Agreed 00:16:08 Good 00:16:12 Not exceptional 00:16:32 * SimonRC goes to bed. 00:17:24 Ilari: you wouldn't believe the nutrition crap the state does here (first hand experience) 00:19:09 happy tens, all 00:19:15 eso onwards 00:19:17 -!- ehirdiphone has quit ("Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"). 00:21:50 ... I used geoIP lookup on that address, and it appears to be in UK. I agree, UK govt seems absolutely worst on pushing nutrion... 00:57:43 -!- soupdragon has joined. 01:02:42 fffffffffff 01:03:04 how come I'm the only one that can't load esolangs.ord 01:03:06 org* 01:09:26 Try http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ ? 01:10:16 * Sgeo pokes soupdragon 01:12:02 ty 01:12:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:28:58 Urgh 01:29:01 That reminds me 01:29:09 gotta read And another thing 01:37:19 Ilari: indeed, ehird is a Britisher. 01:37:58 Ilari: recent events have turned me more and more to your views on commonly accepted nutrition... <-- what are those views? 01:38:49 Reading list, unordered: The Culture books, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, Fine Structure, finish reading all the Discworld books <-- I'm currently reading "The folklore of Discworld" 01:38:52 very interesting 01:39:01 a bit like the science of & books 01:39:24 (where & = same as in sed) 01:40:21 what's The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect 01:40:33 This online novel contains strong language and extreme depictions of acts of sex and violence. Readers who are sensitive to such things should exercise discretion. 01:40:56 Hey, that's a novella! 01:41:05 what does that mean? 01:41:07 soupdragon, I have no clue what it is 01:41:14 I was about to google that myself 01:41:30 The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect is a 1994 novella by Roger Williams. It deals with the ramifications of a powerful, superintelligent supercomputer that discovers a method of rewriting the "BIOS" of reality 01:41:40 so it's like the matrix + AI 01:41:46 sounds cool :D 01:42:57 AnMaster: Short version: Almost everything about official nutrion recomendations is utter garbage and not scientific. 01:43:20 and what is fine structure? 01:43:29 "A novella is a written, fictional, prose narrative longer than a novelette but shorter than a novel" 01:44:21 Ilari, okay 01:45:04 Ilari, I do think "you (probably) need (at least a few) of those vitamins" could pass as valid though 01:45:21 and "not eating at all probably will be terminal for your health" 01:45:42 Yes, that's why I said 'almost everything', not 'everything'. 01:45:56 I think that "if you only eat one thing you become very unhealthy" has been backed up time and time again 01:46:19 Ilari, I'm quite sure that the best general advice would be: balanced diet, not too little, not too much, and some healthy exercise 01:46:24 I have yet to try it ;P 01:46:25 so saying that you need variety has a scientific basis 01:46:51 (the exercise part that is) 01:46:53 trying to figure it out exactly, that's probably where the pseudoscientists come in and tell you that you need to buy their product 01:47:26 The need from variety comes from two things: 1) There is no food that wouldn't have very skewed nutrient profiles, so one needs multiple such profiles to average out, and 2) You can't eat only one thing for very long. 01:47:49 Ilari, make a balanced pill! 01:48:23 Ilari, all you need for today except the fibre (with the fibre it would be a VERY large pill) 01:48:31 thus make a separate fibre drink or such 01:48:45 oh and: make it in different flavours 01:50:00 Vitamins and various other micronutrients (various types of simple ions) are needed, but how much depends also on what else is eaten. Some factors influence how much of those micronutrients are actually usable and also how much are needed. 01:50:48 Ilari, you mean like (iirc) you need fat to be able to process some amino acids(sp?)? 01:51:23 * AnMaster is studying CS, not biology, so sorry if any of this doesn't quite pass as scientificly correct 01:51:28 At least fat is required for proper absorption of some vitamins. 01:51:38 Ilari, maybe that was what it was 01:51:53 I tried to study a bit of biology but it just got so difficult so fast 01:52:08 problem was that I don't know any chemistry 01:52:25 soupdragon, at least it isn't chemistry: fuck those moles 01:52:45 CS is a lot nicer 01:52:48 but you need chemistry as a prereq 01:52:50 and less messy 01:53:02 yeah a lot less mess 01:53:06 no frogs legs 01:53:28 hm what is the English term for someone who is not very practical, more theoretical 01:53:29 Then there are foods that contain stuff that just plain interferes with absorption of vitamins and especially metal ions. 01:53:44 fumbling may or may not be included 01:54:12 Ilari, iirc milk for example interferes with vitamin c? 01:55:04 Never heard of that. IIRC, the most well known example is full-grain wheat and iron... 01:55:19 Ilari, oh hm 01:56:26 Ilari, anyway I was pretty certain that milk and orange juice didn't go together from a vitamin absorption point of view 01:56:29 Probably there are lots of substances that either promote or interfere with absorption of micronutrients. 01:58:05 Then one ocassionally sees something promoted for boosting intake of some micronutrient, even if said thing doesn't contain much of that micronutrient at all. 01:59:29 Ilari, never heard of that 02:00:23 I have at least heard about full grain products and B12 vitamin. Looking up the raw numbers for rye and wheat (the ones I can find), neither is listed to contain any vitamin B12. 02:01:18 mhm 02:01:26 Sometimes it isn't that blatant and the foods promoted actually have the micronutrient in question, but are pretty poor sources of it. Like say Potatoes and vitamin C. 02:02:49 And the worst cases are where promoted food item actually interferes with absorption of micronutrient in question. 02:05:32 Hey, I was browsing Reddit when I happened upon a comment by ehird. 02:06:22 This sort of thing has happened before. 02:06:24 One should eat foods that are rich in all kinds of micronutrients and then top it off with high-quality protein sources + energy sources. Adding protein and energy is much easier than adding micronutrients. 02:06:27 Ilari, iirc beer contains B12. Isn't beer made from grain? Or is that whisky? 02:06:52 AnMaster: There's also yeast involved... 02:06:59 Ilari, oh good point 02:07:12 Ilari, I don't drink alcohol at all though 02:07:33 Except that isn't listed to contain B12 either... 02:08:44 AnMaster: "Beer, lager, strong 5- 5.5% volume". The nutrion facts database I use doesn't list any vitamin B12 for that... 02:09:56 Ilari, hrm, does it actually list B12 for any ? 02:10:08 Ilari, and what db is it 02:10:55 Ilari, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_vitamins#B_vitamin_sources 02:11:08 how trustworthy that is I don't know 02:11:51 AnMaster: Fineli. The requirement for getting to top 100 for B12 there seems to be 4.1micrograms / 100g. 02:12:37 0.6micrograms / 100g for getting into top 500. 02:14:40 Ilari, "fineli"? 02:14:49 is that the db you mean? 02:15:34 Yes. 02:16:53 mhm 02:16:54 It of course doesn't have decent data on trans fats (only total trans fats), but the #1 there for trans fats (excluding milk products, which shouldn't affect what #1 for it is) is "Catering margarine pastry 80% fat". Listed at 6.7g / 100g. 02:18:19 Ilari, good thing I always loved milk. And lactose intolerance is rather rare in Scandinavia :) 02:20:23 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 02:20:40 There "Beef lard" is shown to contain more trans fats than "Catering margarine for baking, 80% fat". Except that the kind of trans fats in those is likely totally different. 02:20:48 ehirdiphone, see log, I replied to you 02:20:57 "Note that aptitude is the preferred program for package management from console both for package installations and package or system upgrades." -Debian FAQ. I was unaware. 02:21:12 ehirdiphone, you didn't know? huh 02:21:14 ehirdiphone: And yes, seeing you come UK, I agree that nutrion advice is really crazy there. 02:21:48 *from 02:21:52 ehirdiphone, if log is hard to read on phone I can paste it 02:22:23 ehirdiphone, also did you see mkry's visit here to thank us? 02:22:35 some days ago now 02:22:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 02:22:37 or day ago maybe 02:24:58 uorygl: What comment? 02:25:08 Then coeliac disease is quite funky. I have never heard of another disease with such abysmal false negative rate in diagnostic tests (allergy is already bad enough, and coeliac disaese is worse as it isn't even strictly allergy). 02:25:19 Ilari: I've had more than "advice"... 02:25:33 But that is for my life story. 02:25:51 Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age... 02:26:02 AnMaster: I saw it. 02:26:18 ehird that book sounds cool 02:26:19 ehirdiphone, you have some sort of diease? 02:26:28 XD. No. 02:26:28 AnMaster ofcourse he does 02:26:29 soupdragon, you can find it on Discworld 02:26:29 The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect 02:26:34 ehirdiphone, *phew* 02:26:34 AnMaster ?? 02:26:42 its the disease called Being English 02:26:42 D: 02:26:45 soupdragon, duh read the books. Death's library 02:26:51 soupdragon: yeah I just need to get around to Reading it 02:26:57 AnMaster I don't follow 02:27:08 But that is for my life story. 02:27:08 Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age... 02:27:21 Death's library in the Discworld books 02:27:26 what is there NOT to follow from that 02:27:32 assuming you read the books 02:27:37 if you haven't I don't want to spoil it 02:27:41 I've not read all discworld 02:27:51 there's a link with discworld and The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect? 02:27:53 is that what you're saying 02:27:58 .... 02:27:59 no 02:28:07 please read again 02:28:09 well you are not making sense to me 02:28:21 .......... 02:28:25 But that is for my life story. 02:28:25 Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age... 02:28:25 Death's library in the Discworld books 02:28:25 what is there NOT to follow from that 02:28:27 .......... 02:28:33 Yeah. Then it sometimes gets worse than bad advice. I classify forced low-calorie dieting as torture. 02:28:35 soupdragon, read that bit carefully 02:28:48 TMoPI isn't a book.. um, actually, it kind of is, but is available online 02:28:51 oh yeah I have read the discwolrd with deaths library in it 02:28:59 okay I know what you mean 02:29:08 soupdragon, that took a lot of time 02:29:18 well I'm not very intelligent 02:29:35 ...but you're in this channel. 02:30:13 Sgeo, so are you (no offence meant, well not much anyway) 02:31:48 Let us talk about equine lagomorph ducks. 02:32:23 That form families. 02:34:02 ehird have you read last question and/or young ladys illustrated primer? 02:34:37 The Last Question is excellent. 02:34:43 yeah totally 02:35:02 durrr 02:35:17 I was asking this because I wanted to see if metamorphosis was anything similar 02:35:26 but then I realized you haven't read it yet... 02:35:43 I am on a roll today 02:35:51 From the author of Fine Structure may I suggest the Ed stories? Gag-a-time-interval becomes epic. 02:36:08 is Fine Structure online? 02:36:17 I found some blog and not sure if that's what you're referring to 02:36:18 Yes. I have not read it. 02:36:24 Qntm.org 02:36:37 ty 02:37:06 One of my favourite quotes is from the Ed stories... 02:37:38 Sam Hughes is probably the only person who writes realistic time tr d 02:37:44 travel, too. 02:41:40 Locomotive ducks. M 02:41:42 -!- ehirdiphone has quit ("Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"). 02:42:15 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 02:42:32 ehirdiphone: "Wait, seriously?" 02:42:59 In response to someone who couldn't figure out how they had Internet access, as their computer was too old to have any wireless capability but there were no network cables connected to it. 02:46:58 Some WLAN card was added to it later? 02:48:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:51:54 I'm guessing it was due to the user's immune system. 02:52:38 The way I arrived at that conclusion kind of looks like logic! 03:46:10 -!- anmaster_l has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 03:53:41 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 03:54:00 I wonder if a blind person could play nethack 03:54:20 no 03:54:38 Nethack has colors 03:54:50 soupdragon: justify 03:54:50 Well, then again, there's a key to identify 03:55:01 I guess so 03:55:01 Slereah_: Your mother has colours 03:55:11 you can't describe the grid world in text 03:55:13 Also nethack is a terrible game 03:55:17 unless you actually use a grid 03:55:17 I mean with a different interface 03:55:25 Keeping the grid 03:55:28 soupdragon: Bullshit 03:55:37 Text adventure games with a maze 03:55:47 you can't describe a maze to a blind person 03:56:01 They can still solve them. 03:56:08 only by algorithms 03:56:33 A maze isn't a visual thing you know 03:56:35 keep your hand on the left wall 03:56:39 it is 03:56:40 You could just make a little 3D replica 03:56:47 if you turn it abstarct it's too complicated to deal with 03:56:55 (abstract maze <=> graph) 03:56:56 But nethack isn't a maze 03:57:06 The terrain is mostly localised 03:57:12 And globally it's dimple 03:57:16 Simple 03:57:20 For the mostpart 03:58:41 "zombie orc bedwetter appeared 30 steps right, 12 up" 03:58:56 (moves) 03:59:06 that's going to be impossible to keep in a coherent picture 03:59:08 zombie Orc bedwetter moves to 1 step up 03:59:46 soupdragon: I think you're assuming blind people are much more crippled than they are 04:00:40 There is a physicist called Nurkhard Heim 04:00:47 He has no hands and is blind 04:00:56 That's quite a handicap right there 04:01:03 Turns out he's a stuffed toy 04:01:14 a NEGLECTED stuffed toy 04:01:18 Because of him, I have learned of the creepiest thing medical science has to offer 04:01:29 See, for people with no hands and blind 04:01:34 Feet penis? 04:01:35 They have a medical operation 04:01:46 To turn the arms into creepy giant crab hands 04:01:58 So that they can still manipulate things and feel things 04:01:59 Fuckin' A 04:02:49 my assumption is that blind people will have better internal visualization capability 04:03:05 Example : http://www.laury.dahners.com/Charity/pix/Krukenber%20late%20post%20op.jpg 04:03:07 even with that, I don't think anyone can play a rougelike without seeing it 04:03:48 Slereah_: Hes dead 04:04:06 soupdragon: Well a blind guy who used to have sight can deffo play nethack 04:04:10 Just slowly 04:04:17 Hr can keep an internal piccy 04:04:24 Born blind? Not so sure 04:05:04 I wonder what the best programming language us for a blind dude 04:05:09 *is 04:05:25 Should be easily pronouncable and very concise 04:05:31 Like J but with words 04:05:48 add over divide length 04:06:11 I guess just J + pronunciation 04:06:19 ie TTS 04:06:33 Iunno 04:06:44 python 04:06:45 I feel that a program isn't something you read 04:06:55 You write it and never look back! 04:06:58 soupdragon: Bullshit 04:07:08 Too verbose. You'd forget the previous part 04:07:25 Before finishing listening to the end of another 04:07:53 Plus it's imperative. Blind people compensate with more abstract reasoning capabilities 04:07:56 ehirdiphone 04:08:06 How about PLAIN ENGLISH 04:08:07 So they don't need a crutch of imperativeness 04:08:14 Best language in existance 04:08:25 Slereah_: Of course! 04:09:01 Make a braille version and voil� 04:09:52 Er 04:10:03 Most blind computer users use text to speech 04:10:11 (on a very fast setting) 04:10:49 I don't know 04:11:07 I'm not sure that automated theorem proving and such is at a good enough level to make that feasible 04:11:22 ??? 04:11:31 essentially, everything you express in english is some kind of logical statement right? 04:11:46 He means Plain English 04:11:58 THE OSMOSIAN ORDER 04:12:07 oh I was thinking about running it on a computer 04:13:04 Plain English is a really bad language 04:13:12 Made by really irritating Yeats 04:13:15 Teats 04:13:17 Twats 04:13:18 Well, it's not that it's bad 04:13:25 It is! 04:13:29 I mean, it's not awesome, but it's okay 04:13:36 It's just incredibly pretentious 04:14:00 It's awful 04:14:19 Remember when I tried to code in it? You too. 04:14:22 Torture. 04:14:28 heh 04:14:30 Yeah 04:14:40 But well, we're in a channel of esoteric languages 04:14:50 So that doesn't horrify me that much 04:14:58 But goddamn balls, the pretentiousness! 04:16:45 tell me about when you guys tried to coed in it? 04:17:25 Too horrific. Sorry. 04:17:39 :( 04:17:41 Therapist told me not to. 04:17:42 i need to know 04:17:56 soupdragon : Google osmonian 04:18:31 soupdragon: You don't have to pay $100 04:18:44 The URL is in the JavaScript iirc 04:19:36 I have the "interpreter" on my website 04:19:44 Beware, it's bad 04:19:54 Big ass IDE, in depressing grey 04:20:15 Compiler actually 04:20:32