< 1262476804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they take floppy disks. But apart from that, they are not obsolete! < 1262476812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like obsolescence to me! < 1262476854 0 :osaunders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262476880 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one of those player pianos was actually an electronic piano. < 1262476924 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been tempted on numerous occasions to build an electromechanical computer < 1262476927 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty much the same thing as a keyboard, except it's actually fashioned to look like a piano and doesn't have as many features. < 1262476945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, my piano takes an usb cable < 1262476948 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, electromechanical computers. Have you ever designed one? < 1262476954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: "an usb cable"? < 1262476955 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1262476959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes? < 1262476963 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midi usb? < 1262476965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it's called MIDI over usb < 1262476965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1262476968 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its "a usb cable" < 1262476971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, why < 1262476974 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it a player piano, an electronic piano, or a keyboard? :-D < 1262476978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesnt start with a vowel. < 1262476985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, you pronounce it "U S B" < 1262476987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "usb" < 1262476990 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you-ess-bee < 1262476998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes indeed < 1262477000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name for the letter "u" does not start with a vowel. < 1262477007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what about pronouncing it "usb" though < 1262477013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "an" would be correct < 1262477018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1262477041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, well then I pronounce it that way ;P < 1262477045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: partially. my idea was to try and imagine what a computer wouldve looked like if you took a morse-code like device and extended that model < 1262477061 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ideas have involved creating a computer using only relays. < 1262477062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1262477067 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks. < 1262477073 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262477076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ideas have involved creating a computer using only relays. < 1262477084 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1262477088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also, no one uses a player piano these days < 1262477090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always seemed odd to me that we didnt have electromechanical computers 150 years ago given that we had morse code back then < 1262477091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live midi < 1262477099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardware midi to be specific < 1262477101 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have heard of MIDI player pianos. < 1262477103 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: noone uses midi these days. long live mp3. < 1262477132 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 is inferior to MIDI when it comes to things MP3 is incapable of doing and MIDI is capable of doing. < 1262477138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no one uses mp3, Long live flac < 1262477144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262477146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what uorygl said < 1262477153 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the converse is true too ofcourse. < 1262477164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we should build an electromechanical computer. < 1262477165 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that we ought to have had electromechanical computers since 1835. < 1262477185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1262477186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that the morse code machines were originally like type writers < 1262477187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262477192 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midi is the shit you use to make mp3 < 1262477194 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had some idea. < 1262477199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, no < 1262477200 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some douchebag convinced morse to use a push-level machine instead < 1262477202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1262477220 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should build an electromechanical router. Then we could make an Internet using only 19th century technology. < 1262477221 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were it not for that, we'd probably have had the internet in 1850. < 1262477224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midi is a transport protocol < 1262477234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like IP, right? < 1262477241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it, an electromechanical type writer that could connect to a tape store remotely < 1262477249 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do music with straight musicians or something < 1262477251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, and a file format < 1262477262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only do music with gay musicians < 1262477271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262477275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape would store bits directly rather than as letters so it'd just feed right into the line < 1262477296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, augur, let's figure out an error correction scheme that can be implemented using relays. < 1262477309 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECC? < 1262477312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you wouldnt have error correction initially, right < 1262477315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just have hard connections < 1262477329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, reed Solomon? < 1262477332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldnt matter much either, because the signals are pretty strong, comparatively speaking < 1262477333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reed* < 1262477339 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't error correction pretty necessary? < 1262477340 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whats that < 1262477343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, iirc < 1262477354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed–Solomon_error_correction < 1262477356 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: only when youre signals are weak < 1262477356 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: depends on the noise levels and such < 1262477359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, used on CDs and such < 1262477371 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the signals are going to get corrupted every time you do something to them. < 1262477387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but an electromechanical computer is going to emply pretty strong signals anyway < 1262477388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, works by oversampling a polynomial, thus being able to reconstruct the missing data points if some are gone < 1262477395 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the signal degredation isnt going to be significant < 1262477402 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a signal goes 1,000 miles and passes through 10 routers, I think there's going to be quite a bit of signal degradation. < 1262477416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe maybe not, uorygle < 1262477422 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but that's transmission, not computation < 1262477426 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even worse if a signal is circulated for an indefinite length of time. < 1262477435 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, error correction is easy to implement, is it not? < 1262477447 0 :osaunders!n=osaunder@78.147.235.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262477474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, they had routers back then for these signals < 1262477483 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already had transatlantic telegraphs < 1262477489 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1262477491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by like 1850 or 1880 or whatever < 1262477497 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dont think thats an issue < 1262477565 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb pizza :D < 1262477660 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so we don't need error correction. < 1262477705 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what sort of signals do we want to support? Packet switching? Circuit switching with in-band signaling? < 1262477719 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would packets be delimited? Time? Number of bits? < 1262477754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in band is bad < 1262477768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles < 1262477773 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1262477799 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-band is good! It means you only need one band. < 1262477810 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phone guys came up with filters that prevented the whistling stuff, no? < 1262477838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, so some freqs were forbidden? Would break said data < 1262477845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to *escape* it instead then < 1262477859 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, let me read a bit about how relays work. < 1262477881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well if you were going to build a computer with that you could do it high level anyway < 1262478260 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like in an ordinary relay, the switch is thrown by passing current in either direction. < 1262478266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai < 1262478317 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could say that a packet ends whenever the voltage drops below the threshold. < 1262478325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION locates a boot cd with gparted < 1262478376 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could use a latching relay, and say that the packet ends whenever the voltage becomes negative; then the data can include both positive and zero voltages. < 1262478380 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygle, lets not try to rebuild TCP/IP on aethernet just yet < 1262478387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEEHEE AETHERNET 8D < 1262478392 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1262478409 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the thing about routers is that they route data. I'm just pondering how that data could be delimited. < 1262478439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special bit patterns, obviously < 1262478457 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't do if you're transmitting analog data. < 1262478473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special tone patterns, obviously < 1262478490 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires something other than relays. :-P < 1262478506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :analog data would in general! < 1262478508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about a fixed packet size? < 1262478528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x milliseconds before switching < 1262478544 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that's a good idea. < 1262478553 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we should get our system up and running locally first before trying to get a transatlantic system up < 1262478562 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the packet overhead could potentially be several seconds. < 1262478579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also what about bouncing with relays < 1262478588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be a rather severe issue < 1262478597 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can compensate for bouncing by using error correction. >.> < 1262478607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, or Hg relays < 1262478609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read about that < 1262478613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bouncing in them < 1262478617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they are toxic < 1262478624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a rather large downside < 1262478630 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys we should really build one of these < 1262478636 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could make it all steampunkish < 1262478645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and show it off on one of the steampunk blogs < 1262478647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it will eat more power than my old p4, and it will also be slower < 1262478650 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's each build our own and then figure out how to connect them. :-P < 1262478655 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: EXACTLY! :D < 1262478658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itll be AWESOME < 1262478666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you get promoted to Intel Chief Engineer some years ago < 1262478676 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOORAY < 1262478690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, then you were fired when they decided to produce core 2 < 1262478709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1262478711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1262478712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::? < 1262478714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262478725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, going to go offline with this connection for a while < 1262478727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parted time < 1262478738 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parted time? < 1262478746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yeah parted < 1262478750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1262478754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, try it's man page < 1262478760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man parted < 1262478764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you type that in your shell < 1262478770 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd part a man < 1262478773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN < 1262478774 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1262478778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1262478782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262478783 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1262478787 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Packet switching and circuit switching aren't really that different when packets can go on for long periods of time. < 1262478799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GNU Parted - a partition manipulation program < 1262478800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, < 1262478802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that so hard < 1262478807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read your damn man pages < 1262478810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i didnt care :D < 1262478815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, have you seen those little calculators < 1262478818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to play more engineer of the people < 1262478820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre like little black drums with a crank? < 1262478830 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm thinking that everything should be digital and packet-switched, and then we can just use special bit patterns. < 1262478834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have seen those. < 1262478880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/curta_i.html < 1262478911 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call that code where every 0 is encoded as 01 and every 1 is encoded as 10? < 1262478920 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1262478929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdonary? < 1262478998 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a name for it. < 1262479230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. The Manchester code. < 1262479368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the poin.. oh, error detection < 1262479369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we not use crazy coding schemes for this? :| < 1262479382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what a binary version of the L&S sequence would look like < 1262479389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L&S? < 1262479394 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look and say < 1262479395 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess crazy coding schemes aren't strictly necessary. < 1262479417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 11, 101, 111011, 11110101, 100110111011 < 1262479417 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could just transmit at a constant rate. < 1262479447 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's kind of an irreversible sequence. < 1262479460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1262479471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder at which base it becomes reversible < 1262479478 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try this: 1, 011, 010101, 010011010011010011, . . . < 1262479481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no I don't < 1262479485 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy < 1262479565 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the thing about not using any code is that timing errors can happen. < 1262479580 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose they transmit 010101010101010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001010101010101010. < 1262479593 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to have to time all those zeros in the middle in order to know how many there are. < 1262479608 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 -> 01, 1 -> 10... NRZ? < 1262479611 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, we probably could use an error correction scheme wherein that can't happen. < 1262479620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: congratulations, you've invented the Manchester code. < 1262479657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you iterate it, you can invent the thue-morse sequence too :) < 1262479693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the point of coding that mangles symbols is usually to avoid long runs of same symbol, as that tends to mess up timing... < 1262479701 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1262479740 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Manchester coding is one way to do things. Using it, I think we can pretty much correct for every sort of error we need to correct for. < 1262479751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone (ais523?) saying something about using 01 and 10 to ensure there were equal number of 0s as 1s to have no net charge < 1262479863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: um you cannot correct for an actual switching of neighbor bits :D < 1262479883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bits don't just spontaneously get switched. < 1262479900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but you could have two neighboring errors < 1262479921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1262479926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hi < 1262479935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in a bit, once this CD is burned, you could say I parted to use parted < 1262479940 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the routers could also spontaneously explode, causing a very large number of errors. Though that's less likely. < 1262479969 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, Manchester at least has some error correction capability for every likely type of error. < 1262479988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey it's supposed to be a bad pun < 1262479999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, yeah < 1262480009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you know what parted is? < 1262480012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are sequences over four symbols that never have any subsequence followed by any permutation (including identity) of that subsequence. Keränen's sequence is one of those (has recursive structure with generator of length 85). < 1262480019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay done < 1262480034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard the name, and can guess it's a partition editor < 1262480038 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I assume that means "immediately followed". < 1262480047 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Oops, right. < 1262480052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1262480105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net" < 1262480123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: um subsequences must have at least length 2, i take < 1262480131 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sequence with recursive structure has to start with "identity" symbol. < 1262480173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait fours symbols duh < 1262480178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*four < 1262480317 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let G be some group. Finite sequence a1 = e, a2, ... an can be expanded into infinite one by a1, a2, .. an, a2 + a1, a2 + a2, ... a2 + an, a3 + a1, ... an + an, a2 + a1 + a1, ... < 1262480344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Keranen's sequence has "abc" at the start, and "bac" later on... or do I misunderstand? < 1262480355 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Immediately followed < 1262480362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262480371 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was mistakenly left out). < 1262480383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, makes more sense < 1262480383 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did ais go < 1262480387 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1262480397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no sequence over finite such that no subsequence eventually repeats. < 1262480419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finite alphabet < 1262480428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262480436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that about 2 seconds after I said that < 1262480443 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counterexample: "a" < 1262480444 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1262480457 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also *infinite sequence < 1262480468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: hah wrong, epsilon is both at start and end < 1262480480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, you're right. < 1262480613 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Z2, using generator 011 would yield 011100100100011011100011011100011011011100100011100100100011011011100100011100100... or something like that. < 1262480654 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, let me generate an infinite sequence. < 1262480676 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmm. < 1262480703 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can do that. < 1262480762 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using elliptic-curve-type group with large amount of points could probably make some whacky sequences. < 1262480763 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Thue, an excellent infinite sequence generator. < 1262480801 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there is: Monster group! < 1262480817 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, fudge. This Thue interpreter doesn't seem to be working. < 1262480843 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that monster group isn't abelian, and thus one would need to define order to do the additions in. < 1262480897 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here is an awesome sequence: 11011011101101101110110111011011011101101110110111011011011101101110110110111011011101101101# < 1262480948 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put all generators of monster group as generator of sequence and eventually the infinite sequence resulting would contain all elements of monster group. < 1262480962 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sequence consists of strings of 1s separated by 0s. Those strings have the following lengths: 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 1 < 1262481008 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring the 1 on the end, that sequence consists of strings of 2s separated by 3s. Those strings have the following lengths: 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 < 1262481023 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1262481102 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, my Thue program simply produces what is effectively an arbitrary finite piece of a random infinite sequence. It cannot generate a continuation of that sequence. < 1262481104 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, monster group has 808017424794512875886459904961710757005754368000000000 elements and duplicates probably exist before last element is found. Not to mention that computing group addition for moster group is quite slow. < 1262481144 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262481172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it can generate sequences of arbitrary length. < 1262481237 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster group has generator of size 2. And interestingly monster group is isomorphic with subset of 196882x196882 matrices over Z2 with matrix multiplication as addition operator. < 1262481308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't every finite group isomorphic to such a subset, really < 1262481365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the interesting part is that 196882 is rather small < 1262481401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, 38 762 521 924 elements total... < 1262481458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the full matrix group is probably enormous compared to the monster < 1262481511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the full group of that size would be all matrices of that size over Z2 with determinant 1. < 1262481530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, unless there is only a tiny minority of determinant 1 elements < 1262481598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you can do it by choosing independent vectors < 1262481626 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are already 2^19381162521 upper triangular (and same amount of lower triangular) such determinant 1 matrices. < 1262481628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first vector anything non-zero, so 2^196882-1 elements. that's already anormous < 1262481647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so enormous < 1262481653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1262481842 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Is Z3 isomorphic to some multiplicative matrix subset over Z2? Its equivalent to question if there is matrix over Z2 (and if there is, what's the smallest one) that has nontrivial cube root of identity matrix. < 1262481844 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262481871 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1262481873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every permutation group Sn is trivially embeddable into n x n matrix < 1262481885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matrices < 1262481887 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially ? < 1262481942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a permutation s is mapped to the matrix with M_ij = 1 is s_j = i, 0 otherwise < 1262481986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that s_i = j < 1262481994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262482014 0 :osaunders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262482074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're even called permutation matrices iirc < 1262482115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_matrix < 1262482118 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, any permutation cycle of length n can be used to find subset of matrices over Z2 that are isomorphic to Zn. < 1262482236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah my confusion of whether to do s_i = j or s_j = i seems to have confused other before, because the standard definition is _wrong_ :D < 1262482243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*others < 1262482347 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it seems that for any Zn, there is isomorphic nxn matrix subset over Z2 with multiplication. < 1262482364 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1262482378 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every group is a subset of a permutation < 1262482387 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you can matrixify permutations then you can matrixify any group < 1262482421 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"zzz" < 1262482496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think when n is a prime and using permutation matrices, that may be minimal < 1262482523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since p does not divide (p-1)! < 1262482565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may ask if it is still minimal if not using permutations... < 1262482607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(order of S_n is n!, and subgroup orders always divide total group order) < 1262482907 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if isn't minimal, fun question is what is smallest n where it isn't and what would be generator matrices for that? < 1262482912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is not a prime power then it is not minimal, because n = n1*n2 with n1, n2 coprime means Zn = Zn1 x Zn2 which can be embedded in S_(n1+n2) by using blocks < 1262482938 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would give n=6... < 1262482989 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262483017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure S5 is minimal for Z6, though < 1262483041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[0,1,0,0,0][1,0,0,0,0][0,0,0,0,1][0,0,1,0,0][0,0,0,1,0]]? < 1262483056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S3 is too small, only 6 elements that _don't_ commute < 1262483058 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262483072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant i was not sure S4 doesn't work < 1262483124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it there's probably a sequence in that sequence encyclopedia for this :D < 1262483137 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have program that can calculate that, try calculating 2nd, 3rd and 6th powers of matrix I gave (over Z2)... < 1262483217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i can see perfectly well it's using the block method i suggested, no need to use a program < 1262483471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current methods would give 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 9, 7, 11, 7, 13, 9, 8, 16, ... < 1262483529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait of course the generator must be a _single_ permutation... < 1262483530 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, that should be 11, 8, 13... < 1262483561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that means this actually is optimal, i think < 1262483601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividing that permutation into cycles is the same as dividing the matrix into blocks, and the resulting order is lcm of cycle length < 1262483615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *lengths < 1262483639 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, 11, 7, 13... < 1262483646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so indeed dividing n into prime powers and adding them is the best you can do < 1262483705 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a(n) is the minimal number m such that the symmetric group S_m has an element of order n - Ahmed Fares (ahmedfares(AT)my-deja.com), Jun 26 2001". < 1262483883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed element of order n means subset is isomorphic to Zn. < 1262483890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1262484007 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I guess I should write my own raytracer to properly trace this fractal pattern. Pov-Ray can't do it properly because of 255 reflections limit. < 1262484034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YafRay? < 1262484115 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. Fairly simple to write raytracer that can just deal with it. < 1262484136 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a 'ray tracer' based on quantum physics? < 1262484304 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it renders refraction and stuff < 1262484350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_with_one_element O_O < 1262484690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I walked around at school, I couldn't help thinking that the tiles on some of the walls looked ray-traced < 1262484775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't the additive identity and the multiplicitive identity be the same? < 1262484787 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the axioms is 0 <> 1 < 1262484797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1262484861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262487033 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It it particularly useful to say that there is no field with one element? < 1262487352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For technical reasons, the additive identity and the multiplicative identity are required to be distinct." < 1262487370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for actual reasons... < 1262487640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once ReactOS is released and fully stable, would there be any real advantage to using it? I mean, it will be prone to Windows viruses, presumably < 1262487688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it would be nice that in 10 years after release, if ReactOS is still alive, it would still be considered modern, without having to pay money, unlike with Windows < 1262487751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't really find any < 1262487774 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ReactOS will be free. We could extend it in ways that we can't extend Windows. < 1262487833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, because then it's not what the mathematical community decided is a "field"? < 1262487889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is _not_ an improvement to "for technical reasons" < 1262488028 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably something to do with homomorphism < 1262488134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would be a terminal object... while other fields only have homomorphisms at all if their characteristics match. or wait, are there homomorphisms from Q to F_n? < 1262488168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if at minimum their characteristics match < 1262488176 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's for divide by zero < 1262488200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait no, obviously not < 1262488211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the characteristics must match < 1262488230 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the characteristic ;/ < 1262488253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest integer n with n*1 equal to 0, or 0 otherwise < 1262488263 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1262488265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*positive integer < 1262488279 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is n*1 ever not n :S < 1262488317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just wanted to point out that n is not a field element < 1262488325 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it be n+1? < 1262488339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n*1 = sum of n 1's < 1262488347 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!!! < 1262488352 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so n is a natural number < 1262488354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "intuitively obvious" < 1262488374 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an element of the field < 1262488385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in characteristic 0, there is no harm in identifying them, since the rationals are always embedded < 1262488558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is always a prime or 0, btw < 1262488678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for each characteristic n, there is a unique prime field, those are Z_n and the rationals < 1262488713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the prime field would be an initial object in that subcategory, since it embeds uniquely in every other < 1262488750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the field of size 1 ruins all that < 1262488785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be of characteristic 1, i guess, but still have a homomorphism to it from everything else < 1262488877 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myth busted! < 1262492029 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now. I'm not following all that well, but it seems like you have certain objects associated with p^n where p is prime, and letting n be 0 ruins stuff because p^0 is a factor of everything. < 1262492376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand i think that may actually fit _because_ you always have a homomorphism to the 1 element field < 1262492418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you may in general have homomorphisms from F_p^n to F_p_m when n divides m, or something like that (let me check) < 1262492424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*F_p^m < 1262492491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you would _need_ n dividing m, at least, since then F_p^m is a vector space over F_p^n < 1262492520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if of dimension d, then p^m = p^(nd) => m = nd < 1262492849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't find an easy reference < 1262493431 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262494502 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262494518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I name this class: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User:Zzo38/untitled_class_1_(3.5e_Class) < 1262494620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceci_n_est_pas_un_classe < 1262494655 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1262494706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *_une_ < 1262494762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this joke but don't want to call it that. < 1262494783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it the improbability drive is the important aspect < 1262494819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one of the important aspects, but probably not the most important one < 1262494836 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dand"? < 1262494857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the domain name, I didn't write it < 1262494858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D < 1262494870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" is the domain name. < 1262494898 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's better than "dandd". < 1262494898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well rephrase that: the name "improbability drive" was the only part i got any gist from < 1262494907 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it better than "dnd"? < 1262494936 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. But can you understand how all the class features works, however? < 1262495225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something called complex abilities. however i do not know d&d sufficiently well to understand how this is any different from what any spellcasting/psionics character can usually do < 1262495273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay, oerjan < 1262495279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D 3.5 is not meant to be understood < 1262495283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1262495312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me leave it to the experts then < 1262495480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Complex Abilities" collectively refers to the spells, powers, and potentially others. < 1262495550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maneuvers? < 1262495625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Complex Abilities" does refer to maneuvers, but whether or not I add that to this class is different < 1262495857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 LoZ music < 1262496196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the types of complex abilities that I might add, though, is warlock invocations, if I can figure out the cost that should be applied to them < 1262497060 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add them all < 1262497293 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what C.A.P cost? I want it to be not too low, and not zero like a actual warlock's invocations < 1262497309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, what should I name this class < 1262497838 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262498561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, add all complex abilities < 1262498575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invocations, spells, powers, maneuvers, infusions, and anything else you can think of < 1262498586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you randomly get certain kinds < 1262498602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you never have access to all of them < 1262498663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I want a blank white cards bot < 1262498674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I will put the "randomly get certain kinds" but I could figure it out if (and only if) I can assign reasonable C.A.P costs to each of them, of course, you have a limited number of complex abilities known and a limited number of C.A.P/day so you can't possibly use all of them in one day < 1262498767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I really want to add all of them though, if some kinds are more powerful it might require a feat to provide access to them < 1262498773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kidding < 1262498788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, I don't do much else with 3.5 < 1262498795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except add templates to random creatures < 1262498823 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still contemplates purchasing GR's book that's 100% templates, just for the lulz < 1262498865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1262498950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1262499548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ever played 1000 blank white cards? < 1262499557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I never have done so < 1262499569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have seen descriptions and rules < 1262499859 0 :bsmntbombgrrl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds retarded < 1262499909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awesome < 1262499994 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi!!! < 1262500020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tad late, but otherwise well played < 1262500564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Brad Cox and Tom Love create Objective-C, announcing "this language has all the memory safety of C combined with all the blazing speed of Smalltalk." Modern historians suspect the two were dyslexic." < 1262500577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have pasted that in here verbatim before < 1262500690 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it before < 1262500693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I lold < 1262500724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html < 1262500748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what I know, is, my ideas for improvement of C is not Objective C or C++, but is differently < 1262500751 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, < 1262500794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have a few new preprocessor directives is one thing: #xmacro #calc #string < 1262500885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262500898 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I like the line about Java and lambdas < 1262500901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmacro? < 1262500908 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#local #endlocal < 1262500925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I want explanations of all of those < 1262500951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, when using #include to be able to specify after the filename any number of names, which will be defined as blank macros while including the file and reverted afterward. < 1262500972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: #include EXTRA_DOS_PROGRAM EXTRA_1 < 1262500983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: write those in a patch to the GNU preprocessor, propose to the C++ committee and the C committee, in that order < 1262500987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to clang's < 1262500991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be easier < 1262500999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still want to know what your 5 macros do < 1262501031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#xmacro creates a macro that does an include. Example: #xmacro Xmacro1(_1,_2) "extra.h" __Xmacro1 < 1262501083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#calc does like #define but calculates all values when the #calc line is evaluated, instead of afterward. Example: #calc FooBar FooBar+1 < 1262501135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused about xmacro... < 1262501144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#string acts like #calc but does an unstringize of the result < 1262501146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc is sort of not really needed < 1262501168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that I could see as more useful < 1262501169 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example of #string: #string CHAR(x) "'" #x "'" < 1262501180 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262501183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1262501185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don < 1262501212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I don't understand what Xmacro adds, and I really don't understand what #calc adds < 1262501227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still? I thought I explained it. < 1262501237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how they work < 1262501242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they add < 1262501280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the example of #xmacro given: When Xmacro(a,b) is found, it works like #define _1 a #define _2 b #define __Xmacro1 #include "extra.h" and then it can revert the _1 _2 __Xmacro1 because those are local to the macro < 1262501358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it < 1262501368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use #include < 1262501382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it need to be a macro? < 1262501390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a macro expanding to a directive is truly horrible < 1262501395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should never be allowed to happen < 1262501462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know where I can find some news about hormones? Ideally on a science- or medicine-oriented site < 1262501463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid homework < 1262501472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be sort of recent < 1262501642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually use Eiffel? < 1262501651 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262501667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not as far as I know, which is a shame < 1262501723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, isn't there overloaded .NET stuff? And isn't there a .NET version of Eiffel? And doesn't Eiffel not allow overloading? < 1262501867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most .NET languages do not support all of its capabilities < 1262501901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding overloading to Eiffel doesn't seem too difficult, particularly when you have additional limitations inherited from .NET < 1262502362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there a lot of jobs for C# programmers? < 1262502368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1262502374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately < 1262502378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a good language to learn, then < 1262502379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262502385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're in it for employment, yes < 1262502441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a haircut < 1262502450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with it, other than the .NET legal issues and the whole type thing < 1262502802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also #trap #mark #unmark < 1262502945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#trap is used to trap compiler errors. If it is trapped, it will stop, and preprocess again with a different macro set or something, and then recompile. If ? is used it traps within the marked area. Example: #trap error ?section1 define section1_error < 1262502977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to indicate the types of errors or other stuff too, possibly with parameters in parentheses, if you put "error" it means any error < 1262503095 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that scares me < 1262503157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really scary? < 1262503671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will MS come up with ORG? < 1262503675 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1262503693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe never < 1262503707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that with "COM", then ".NET" < 1262503716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1262503720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1262503738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know why you asked < 1262503746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sorry < 1262503789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it can show time of received messages, it won't currently show the time of sent messages, therefore I ought to fix that < 1262503852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the message is already typed, it has to show the time *after* the sent message, instead of *before*, even though it is slightly inconvenient < 1262504087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I try to play pinball and watch the IRC both at the same time. < 1262504113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262504750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit, the whole explicit typing thing makes autocomplete actually work, so C# has that going for it < 1262504792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang will bring awesome autocomplete to C++ < 1262504798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not kidding here) < 1262504801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to PythonWin's "Oh, I see you typed .x sometime in the past, and you just typed a .. Do you want me to put .x?" < 1262504808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1262504818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate's default code complete is like that :( < 1262505205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night < 1262505428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262505599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1262505600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1262506446 0 :Warriphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262507207 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262507215 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relay only computer has been done. < 1262507234 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, no interesting people are here right now. < 1262507249 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1262507254 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1262508830 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-71-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1262509471 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262509947 0 :Warriphone!n=warripho@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262510610 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262510848 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262510858 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: sorry! I didn't notice you. < 1262510902 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1262510926 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you weren't talking or anything. < 1262510988 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might read Three Worlds Collide today < 1262511888 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1262512224 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262512791 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1262513381 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262514482 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done two euler problems in IRP!! < 1262514623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1262514633 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones? < 1262514647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many lines did your programs have? < 1262514654 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one line each < 1262514683 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's usually a few extra lines buttering them up < 1262514705 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if you just come out with the algoorithm they tell you to piss off :( < 1262515040 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262515042 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FISSION < 1262515299 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if fuse:fusion, I guess fiss:fission. < 1262515333 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1262515361 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lexicon thinks fission is a root morpheme < 1262515367 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no 'fiss' < 1262515393 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poo on your lexicon < 1262515397 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1262515459 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse :: a -> b -> (a,b) < 1262515472 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC-KIMMO>generate fuse+ion < 1262515472 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fusion < 1262515472 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC-KIMMO>generate fish+ion < 1262515472 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishion < 1262515539 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiss :: (-> :: a -> b -> c) => (a,b) -> c < 1262515545 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(continuation type syntax obvs) < 1262515560 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me :/ < 1262515587 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262515631 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiss (a,b) ->k = k a b < 1262515688 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-226.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262515707 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: generate fiss+ion < 1262515715 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fission < 1262515728 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that fiss isn't a word < 1262515775 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1262515786 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC-KIMMO>RECOGNIZE fiss < 1262515786 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** NONE *** < 1262515829 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFINE fiss the act of fission < 1262515847 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1262515855 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not make it fizz < 1262515861 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizz+ion = fission < 1262515872 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not actually true... YET) < 1262516193 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cool if you could depend on the result of the continuation < 1262516234 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = True:$ < 1262516240 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False:foo < 1262516245 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1262516273 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True:False:True:False:... < 1262516274 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1262516287 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False:True:False:True:False:... < 1262516291 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1262516468 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo | $ > 1 = 1 < 1262516487 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | $ < 1 = 0 < 1262516519 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo + 1 -- always 1 < 1262516527 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo - 1 -- always 0 < 1262516551 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-226.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262516609 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if foo is 1 then it's 1+1; since 2>1 foo must be 1. So actually it's 2 in that case) < 1262516615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262516649 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if foo is 0 then it's 0+1; the conditition should be >= 1. So it's 1) < 1262516703 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is actually always -1 < 1262516803 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo = 1 then it's 1-1 = 0; foo is only 1 when $ >= 1 so contradiction < 1262516807 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore it's 0-1 = -1 < 1262516841 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so foo+1 is ambiguously 1 or 2 < 1262516845 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and foo-1 is always -1 < 1262516955 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case foo of 0 -> 1; 1 -> 0 is _|_ < 1262517041 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: are there any languages with bigo notation in the types? < 1262517135 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool < 1262517187 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1262517198 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1262517521 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262517536 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262518127 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any < 1262518142 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there's languages whre everything takes polytime or whatever < 1262518166 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I mean < 1262518195 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type inferrer would actually work out the big os < 1262518230 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could enforce the time complexity of functions; write a function and see what complexity it has; etc. < 1262518271 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1262518284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1262518297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I like that idea < 1262518328 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's impossible in the general case; take: < 1262518333 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = a < 1262518348 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a :: O(?) a < 1262518365 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could just require you to specify the type there < 1262518379 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let you do O(inf), I guess < 1262518392 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: < 1262518412 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error : str -> O(inf) 'a < 1262518415 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1262518439 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact n = if n<0 then error "argh" else ... < 1262518464 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fact n O(n!) or O(inf)? < 1262518482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you just have to return a maybe < 1262518485 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1262518506 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fib(n) is O(fib(n)), naively < 1262518516 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need compile time functions < 1262518524 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To allow for things like that < 1262518556 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er fact is O(n) PFC < 1262518559 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IFC < 1262518562 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ofc < 1262518566 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not n! < 1262518813 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, O-analysis is so difficult I can't imagine programming a computer to do it < 1262519515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: what did you think of End of Time? < 1262519529 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ? < 1262519554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor who < 1262519555 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1262519570 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen the first; don't spoil the second please < 1262519572 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like doctor fail < 1262519581 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's repeated today, might catch it < 1262519587 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: die < 1262519622 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm psyched that Moffat is taking over < 1262519629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1262519684 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even watch it, but it's trendy enough to be complete shit < 1262519783 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: stfu; doctor who is excellent < 1262519797 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im talking about hte new series obviously < 1262519812 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu regardless < 1262519824 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with the revival < 1262520120 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: also water is pretty trendy < 1262520129 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was unaware it was in fact faeces < 1262520144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1262520218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waters not trendly, smirnoff frosty frootz is trendy < 1262520281 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then being alive is trendy. if you ignore all the suicide < 1262520285 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well < 1262520295 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being alive is arguably complete shut < 1262520297 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1262520317 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fuck it < 1262520343 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string theory: trendy < 1262520354 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's counter-examples of course < 1262520359 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know any < 1262520435 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex? < 1262520443 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex is pretty trendy < 1262520548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of sex, ehird < 1262520680 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be this idea like "a million people watch it onec a week it must be brilliant" about whatever new sitcom replaced friends or lost, but in reality it's dumbed down to the LCM so people have a common language to say nothing in -- like talking about the weather except 'cool' < 1262520728 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently in hot parts of US they talk about the traffic because the weather doesn't fluctuate enough < 1262521033 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know I'm too cynical for my own good < 1262522281 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what. Doctor Who is awesome. < 1262522287 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also popular. < 1262522299 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't give a shit about popularity. < 1262522344 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I do not want to know what follows. < 1262522347 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262522367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing follows i just wanted to say that to make you think that ;D < 1262523145 0 :osaunders!n=osaunder@78.147.235.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262523862 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-207.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262524409 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262525115 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262525545 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stupid :P < 1262525552 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three Worlds Collide < 1262525610 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262525770 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it's a good story < 1262525786 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets better btw < 1262525790 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the 4chan and 'internet is for porn' references make me baulk < 1262525803 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighten up < 1262525804 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm only half way < 1262525822 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I just said it's stupid, I have nothing against stupid < 1262525827 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1262525844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think, all the amazing resources we have on the Internet are a byproduct of people wanting porn < 1262526545 0 :osaunders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262527060 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pretty much! < 1262527069 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but porn killed Betamax! < 1262527744 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1262528084 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1262528088 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1262528165 0 :osaunders!n=osaunder@78.147.235.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262529806 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1262529934 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: I have an idea for a website, but I have no experience in any of the necessary skills to build it myself. What do I do? < 1262529941 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: I have an idea for a faster-than-light spacecraft which would accelerate space exploration exponentially. I have no idea how to build it. Suggestions? < 1262530030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, with a faster-than-light spacecraft you could travel backwards in time with a copy of your website < 1262530038 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1262530154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is however a significant danger things will get messed up and you have to be saved by an anthropomorphic/stuffed tiger < 1262530239 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh that was one fo the most fun ones < 1262530308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes (not that i've read them all) < 1262530910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So if fuse:fusion, I guess fiss:fission. < 1262530927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently fission comes from the latin verb "findo" < 1262530952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably wasn't borrowed because it resembles "find"... < 1262531020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin 3rd conjugation verbs to all sort of consonant merging and stuff < 1262531023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1262532727 0 :osaunders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye" < 1262535272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1262537016 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vinge has said [1] that the "important" sequel to Bookworm would have featured the first human with amplified intelligence; however, when he attempted to sell such a story to John W. Campbell, Campbell rejected it with the explanation "You can't write this story. Neither can anyone else." < 1262537026 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get this, why can't anyone write this story? < 1262537206 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no clue if this is what campbell was thinking, but you can claim that you cant accurately simulate an intelligence greater than your own and that would be necessary for such a story < 1262537222 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think thats a very good argument though personally < 1262537235 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1262537249 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact I don't even think it is true < 1262537250 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that we generally assume that art can meaningfully portrary/refer/represent things even without actually possessing those qualities < 1262537538 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-32.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262537546 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262537568 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a crypt of misunderstanderment! < 1262537691 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1262537770 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C opinion poll: typedef struct _Foo Foo; struct _Foo {...}; < 1262537772 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1262537787 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct _Foo {...} Foo; < 1262537796 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1262537800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct { ... } Foo; < 1262537818 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the former; it doesn't have the strange dangling name and lets you use the alias in the strict itself < 1262537839 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Inconsistent when you also define recursive structures. < 1262537844 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, especially the latter point < 1262537860 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*struct < 1262537861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: No, self-documenting when I do. < 1262537878 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What aspect does it document? < 1262537891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This struct is self-recursive." < 1262537906 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it still has the freaky- dangling name. < 1262537913 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*freaky-deaky < 1262537923 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *self*recursive? < 1262537935 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that is self evident from the definition. < 1262537937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, not mutually recursive with something else. < 1262537938 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-self-recursive < 1262537951 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit though struct type names are a c wart < 1262537960 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ actually gets this right, < 1262537970 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo {...} defines type foo < 1262537983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underscores followed by a capital letter are reserved identifiers, you shouldn't be using them :-P < 1262537990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't remember if that was only POSIX though. < 1262538031 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would actually use: < 1262538050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct widget Widget; < 1262538056 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct widget < 1262538058 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1262538062 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1262538066 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1262538088 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to adorn names in the struct namespace. < 1262538333 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Plan 9 C's struct inheritance was widely supported. < 1262538375 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, the standard lets you do struct foo { struct bar *parent; ... } < 1262538380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: C99 7.1.3 Reserved identifiers: "All identifiers that begin with an underscore and either an uppercase letter or another underscore are always reserved for any use. All identifiers that begin with an underscore are always reserved for use as identifiers with file scope in both the ordinary and tag name spaces." < 1262538387 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explicitly lets you cast it like that < 1262538397 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's ugly < 1262538416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Cheers < 1262538467 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder; does C99 let you use Unicode in identifiers? I guess not. < 1262538488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1262538497 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1262538531 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :•(f,g) < 1262538547 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :€(1000) < 1262538557 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHaha < 1262538565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Not arbitrary Unicode. < 1262538565 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHahaha < 1262538570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a restricted set. < 1262538575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not even all letters. < 1262538579 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feckless. < 1262538591 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-32.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262538605 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feckless is my new favourite autocorrection of feck. < 1262538619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find the list in ISO/IEC 9899:1999(E) Annex D. < 1262538629 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there is no package for znc in arch < 1262538633 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262538634 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in aur there is < 1262538649 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird, read the C spec on your iPhone." < 1262538654 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No." < 1262538759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define if(x) if(__builtin_constant_p(x) ? (x) : !(x)) < 1262538773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: http://pastebin.com/m4406d890 < 1262538776 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am become WTF, destroyer of programmers' minds. < 1262538811 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thank you for that entirely useless list. :P < 1262538818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: You're welcome! < 1262538826 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a while you don't see the codepoints. < 1262538843 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I see is blonde, brunette, redhead... < 1262538858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blonde, brunette, redhead, bopomofo. < 1262538913 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do currying in cpp... < 1262538929 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, so I'm dual booting gentoo and arch atm. In the process of switching over < 1262538935 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define apply(f,x) f(x) < 1262538937 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may take a bit before I drop gentoo completely < 1262538939 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then eg < 1262538968 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _1(f) _1_,f < 1262538989 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _1_(f,x) f(x) < 1262538994 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: < 1262539035 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply3(##apply(_1,func), someval) < 1262539038 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given < 1262539044 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apply2 < 1262539059 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define apply2(f,x,y) f(x,y) < 1262539063 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1262539089 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1262539098 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: Abandoning source distros? You? Thought I'd never see the day < 1262539110 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: What bit confuses you? < 1262539120 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of it seems to make any sense < 1262539131 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know cpp? < 1262539136 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not realyl < 1262539143 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written some programs in it < 1262539143 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then :P < 1262539154 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp. The preprocessor < 1262539158 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not C++ < 1262539161 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262539166 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right well I know cpp better than c++ < 1262539177 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1262539208 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could paste like that < 1262539218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get apply3(_1_,func,someval) < 1262539232 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need a ## after the call too < 1262539239 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: apply2 actually < 1262539246 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply3(##apply2(_1,func)##, someval) ? < 1262539268 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know cpp has a specific rule forbidding , interpolation but surely ## overrides it < 1262539276 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: apply3->2 < 1262539286 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 args to func < 1262539286 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply2(##apply(_1,func)##, someval) < 1262539286 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262539291 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1262539294 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1262539302 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: macro "apply2" requires 3 arguments, but only 2 given < 1262539302 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anmaster_l: Abandoning source distros? You? Thought I'd never see the day <-- actually I use freebsd on another system < 1262539315 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, using ports < 1262539325 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"distros" < 1262539338 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ## doesn't do anything < 1262539379 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1262539408 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok then how about < 1262539412 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be inside a #define < 1262539417 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1262539418 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1262539430 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put it onside one < 1262539433 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inside < 1262539492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this idea seems vaguely relevant at the moment, ehird might like it: in a purely source based environment, why not build static binaries with no use of libraries at all, just a preprocessing step where every function needed (and no others) is inlined < 1262539509 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this is possible ehird < 1262539538 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to paste f(x,u,z) into f(x,a,b,c,z) < 1262539540 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: :( < 1262539593 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ok then, different cpp idea < 1262539666 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp is repeatedly executed on its output until there is no change. there is a special define as if #define NL (newline) < 1262539674 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eg you could do < 1262539707 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define foo(x) #include #x NL #define included_##x < 1262539728 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage foo(blah.h) < 1262539735 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Task: prove tc or not < 1262539742 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought about it a bit < 1262539746 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's tc < 1262539762 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "distros" < 1262539763 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1262539767 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't say "linux distro" < 1262539775 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could argue freebsd is a freebsd distro < 1262539789 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't pc-bsd based on freebsd? < 1262539791 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not valid :( < 1262539800 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are two freebsd distros then < 1262539801 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine it though < 1262539804 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd and pc-bsd < 1262539807 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1262539845 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: nit valid how < 1262539849 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1262539863 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the #define < 1262539887 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster_l: in that case *bsd are just 386bsd (aka jolix) distros < 1262539889 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-->NL #define inc<-- < 1262539898 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: read the lines above < 1262539910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run cpp in a loop < 1262539919 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cpp in a loop is TC < 1262539922 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With s/NL/\n/ in between < 1262540046 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, indeed < 1262540090 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually considered forking 386BSD... < 1262540096 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's too much work. < 1262540106 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more familiar with Linux, anyway. < 1262540187 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, os x? < 1262540192 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it count < 1262540199 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's *bsd userland anyway < 1262540219 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1262540244 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the kernel is essentially BSD-on-Mach < 1262540382 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux pre-2.4 isn't even updated for security, is it? < 1262540675 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1262541326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~felipe/IFT2030-Automne2002/Complements/tinyc.c wow this code is tight < 1262541330 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty < 1262541595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look like a compiler < 1262541617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like an interpreter that prints out every variable's value at termination < 1262541684 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles to VM instructions. < 1262541693 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the code generator section. < 1262541719 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless, it's under 300 lines of code and very readable. < 1262541726 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is impressive. < 1262541729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1262541778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, line count is easily reduced by having 5 statements per line :-P < 1262541847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ indent < tinyc.c | wc -l < 1262541847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :549 < 1262541860 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very impressivle < 1262541931 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Strip the comments < 1262541935 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fair < 1262541960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still 500. < 1262542024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about with sloccount? < 1262542052 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace, lines with just } and similar aren't really active lines of code. < 1262542069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :447 < 1262542129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent -kr puts it at 397 < 1262542133 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sloccount skips whitespace tight?) < 1262542139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tight. < 1262542150 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :397 is very good IMO :P < 1262542186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1262542300 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-32.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262542639 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262543555 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1262543756 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi AnMaster. < 1262543778 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262544575 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1262547077 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262547711 0 :harriman!n=erlbot@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262547756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1262547783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... doesn't have the command I need < 1262547785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to add it I guess < 1262547838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is harriman < 1262547906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a long story < 1262547951 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@games < 1262547969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that none of those work < 1262548064 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1262548068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how is it esolang related? < 1262548075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It really isn't < 1262548079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1262548082 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to add a command to move it out of here < 1262548115 0 :harriman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1262548118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1262548120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Erlang < 1262548152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CONFIG_PARPORT_PC_FIFO: < 1262548152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many parallel port chipsets provide hardware that can speed up < 1262548152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing. Say Y here if you want to take advantage of that." < 1262548158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot's actually modular; the games module is the only one with any real development though < 1262548178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when would you need DMA for a parallel printer XD < 1262548182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parallel port* < 1262548198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe a better question would be "since when wouldn't you" < 1262548218 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262548277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... that's an issue < 1262548354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what is? < 1262548372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with my bot < 1262548377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the way it parses some commands < 1262548565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wewt, crash... < 1262548871 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, looking at chip-8 < 1262548876 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting design < 1262548902 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorely lacking in "easy shit that looks pretty" stuff tho :D < 1262549142 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... pretty sure that isn't supposed to happen < 1262549145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well... homework to do < 1262550650 0 :osaunders!n=osaunder@78.147.235.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262551440 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-207.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262551490 0 :Aszstal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-207.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262551885 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1262551891 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1262552378 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OGC < 1262552394 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262552440 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262553264 0 :osaunders!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262553324 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262553361 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262553383 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diphone < 1262553423 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how R5RS seems pretty benign and then you get to call-with-current-continuation. A few minutes later, it bludgeons you with dynamic-wind. < 1262553437 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's nooga. < 1262553449 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers < 1262553477 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how could something like chip-8 be modernized < 1262553486 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With magic. L < 1262553487 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIP-8 < 1262553487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, < 1262553495 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ L/d < 1262553496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while configuring a 2.6.32 kernel: < 1262553498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This option will be removed in 2.6.29." < 1262553519 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU-quality engineering! < 1262553550 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I'm turning into a grumpy old bastard who hates everything modern. < 1262553560 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses an iphone < 1262553572 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is that. < 1262553575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is uh 14 years old < 1262553581 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that. < 1262553583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "young" < 1262553584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1262553586 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apart from that. < 1262553593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should say "14 years young" < 1262553641 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme my libc4, my Linux 2.0, my a.out, my XFree86, my BSD userland. My X terminals! < 1262553661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, what file system < 1262553701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, know that Linux 2.0 definitely didn't have any journaling fs < 1262553704 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. I don't know. How about ext's little-known and nonexistent predecessor, whose name is the null string. < 1262553712 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ext without the ext. < 1262553713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what the crap is up with the spell checking on here < 1262553715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on arch < 1262553737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is abysmal, in fact it doesn't even know the word "abysmal" < 1262553758 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you've spelt it wrong. < 1262553762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on gentoo I had one that knew everything, even stuff no one used any more < 1262553770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well it had no suggestions for it either < 1262553777 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absymal. < 1262553791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, it doesn't accept Absymal either < 1262553796 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pirate Webster's, the old one < 1262553798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1262553801 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's public domain < 1262553807 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not really pirate < 1262553808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what this one uses... < 1262553816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be aspell < 1262553821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that isn't even installed !? < 1262553829 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't get things like "blog" though < 1262553836 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ispell? < 1262553868 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn R5RS is still such a nice language < 1262553882 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget that every so often then look at the spec again < 1262553883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, about "blog", won't make a difference here. It doesn't know it either. < 1262553903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it thinks that "doesn't" are two words, doesn and t, t being a valid word, doesn is not < 1262553910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webster's is from the 1910s though :P < 1262553911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete and utter failure < 1262553975 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write yet another R5RS compiler. < 1262554020 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuation-passing style transformation and Cheney on the MTA garbage collection are good for you. < 1262554050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it look in practise? < 1262554079 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R5RS is the last true Scheme, if you don't know it by that moniker. < 1262554105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies < 1262554106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why xchat has --enable-mmx < 1262554121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so out of place for an irc client < 1262554126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I don't know enough about Scheme to know why people hate R6RS and I don't particularly care) < 1262554126 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(R6RS, the latest report, defines a language superficially similar but a complete miscarriage of Scheme's philosophy in actuality.) < 1262554144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: is there a good link on this? < 1262554206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Scheme just grotesque Lisp dialect? < 1262554210 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The R6RS votes page. Note the lack of reasoning for almost all yes votes. Note the in depth objections from experienced Schemers on the no votes. Note how it only passed by a small majority. < 1262554222 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It is VERY ungrotesque. < 1262554224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1262554235 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: r6rs.org. < 1262554240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, to the votes page < 1262554242 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some link there. < 1262554283 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Also note that the vast majority of implementers said they would not adopt R6RS and indeed haven't. < 1262554291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recompiles xchat to use gtkspell so he can get that language selection pop-up menu. < 1262554297 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has... not been a hit. < 1262554313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what the crap is up with not knowing "recompiles" but knowing "recompile" < 1262554317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just so very very broken < 1262554320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find this page you speak of < 1262554324 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link or it didn't happen < 1262554340 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on the iPhone. Just RTF page < 1262554363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did < 1262554397 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262554421 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re my earlier remarks about implementing R5RS being good for you: ...but figuring out how DYNAMIC-WIND interacts with everything else is like shooting 5,000 bags of heroin a day for 1,000 years, except instead of getting high your face is stomped on by a burning poker. < 1262554428 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sec. I'll look. L < 1262554437 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ L/d < 1262554476 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: is it enough ungrotesque to make you want to design hardware r6rs scheme processor and write very sophisticated OS for that in r6rs scheme? < 1262554481 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1262554546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, what is DYNAMIC-WIND? < 1262554555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMsater: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_576 < 1262554556 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ugh, they removed the ratification results. < 1262554562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that from r5rs? or would it be some r6rs thing? < 1262554564 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still have a broken link to it. < 1262554568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty straightforward, actually < 1262554576 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you're a fool < 1262554593 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It interacts with callcc < 1262554594 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: that's not an answer < 1262554596 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very horribly < 1262554598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yes, I see < 1262554608 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I don't talk to trolls < 1262554627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what has r6rs got to do with being ungrotesque? < 1262554640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I think he must have misinterpreted you < 1262554649 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone said that it's VERY ungrotesque < 1262554655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ehirdiphone meant that r5rs was ungrotesque... Not r6rs < 1262554663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shh < 1262554664 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1262554669 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're feeding the idiot < 1262554687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, food! < 1262554691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, maybe he will someday turn less idiotic by the osmosis? < 1262554695 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just making fun of my OS/hardware tendencies < 1262554708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1262554710 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1262554712 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we did try that for months... < 1262554718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, oh okay then < 1262554723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test -z "/etc/gconf/schemas" || /bin/mkdir -p "/home/arvid/src/system/xchat/pkg/etc/gconf/schemas" < 1262554723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ../../../0 -m 644 'apps_xchat_url_handler.schemas' '/home/arvid/src/system/xchat/pkg/etc/gconf/schemas/apps_xchat_url_handler.schemas' < 1262554723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: line 4: ../../../0: No such file or directory < 1262554728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY strange build error < 1262554755 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I was not making fun < 1262554868 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"urgh" immediately otherwise and you referring to it as r6rs when it was r5rs I praised, plus historical evidence, suggests otherwise. But whatever < 1262554874 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired < 1262554892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I believe he must simply have misunderstood you < 1262554895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naaah, that urgh was about my weird grammar < 1262554913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought we were talking about r6rs < 1262554920 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, i'm a fool and troll < 1262554930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, maybe it worked after all ^ < 1262554953 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll better shut up < 1262554970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, isn't it said that realising your own faults is the first step towards getting rid of those? < 1262554977 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262554986 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is his self hate mode < 1262554988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no offence meant to anyone here) < 1262554996 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hes done it before < 1262554999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262555030 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I LIKE watching how my behaviour infuriates ehird, it's amusing : < 1262555032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1262555074 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's over, I promise < 1262555099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : UNROLL drivers/md/raid6altivec1.c < 1262555099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CC [M] drivers/md/raid6altivec1.o < 1262555099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : UNROLL drivers/md/raid6altivec2.c < 1262555099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1262555106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it is compiling that < 1262555109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86_64 < 1262555119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, ^ XD < 1262555129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how the heck does it even succeed in compiling it < 1262555147 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262555243 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sisc-scheme.org/r5rs_pitfall.php I love the MAP caveat < 1262555253 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such an unexpected language quirk < 1262555405 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1262555429 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.105.68.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262555474 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ever tried xmonad? < 1262555480 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1262555486 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how was it? < 1262555502 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configuration system sucks, generally not as good as dwm or wmii. < 1262555569 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about awesome? < 1262555591 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome is dwm with a lot of stuff, mostly superfluous, added to it. < 1262555682 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about xmonad because Wadler inspired me to play with haskell again < 1262555699 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last month I went to Edinburgh to visit my friend from UoE and accidentally met Phil Wadler after his lecture < 1262555710 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262555711 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is great. < 1262555755 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1262555759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L < 1262555762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiretoko, hard to remember name for arch linux's firefox < 1262555762 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1262555781 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mozilla's fault. < 1262555791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1262555797 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame their fucking idiotic trademark policies. < 1262555799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, you mean the branding thing, well yes < 1262555807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why call it "shiretoko" instead < 1262555808 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla are as bad as Sun and IBM. < 1262555809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1262555815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's* a hard to remember name < 1262555820 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once a corporation always a corporation. < 1262555831 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Its the official codename < 1262555834 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of 3.5 < 1262555844 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Debian is consistent about there < 1262555847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*theirs < 1262555849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1262555850 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will change for the next version, etc. < 1262555851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha* < 1262555857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, gentoo can actually work around it, since you can compile it for personal use with official logo iirc < 1262555861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they offer a useflag for it < 1262555864 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1262555878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, source based distros are better at some stuff :P < 1262555889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is stupid this is required < 1262555903 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the debian thread that kicked it all off < 1262555912 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla guys were jerks < 1262555920 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :( < 1262555931 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian were like "Fuck you guys, we can't call firefox firefox now" < 1262555953 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the rationale behind blocking one user from using a trademark < 1262555955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're bad about it < 1262555959 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but blanket policies = :( < 1262555983 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing firefox is shit < 1262556006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most applications are shit < 1262556033 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is a bad browser, though. There are better. < 1262556041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the purpose < 1262556059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, "works on most web pages"? I think firefox manages very well there < 1262556068 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your purpose isn't "experience hell", firefox is probably the wrong choice < 1262556081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is pretty usuable < 1262556083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262556086 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Webkit + presto (operas engine) do that perfectly well < 1262556095 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *unusable < 1262556096 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1262556099 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed! < 1262556100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, presto is open source? < 1262556105 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1262556110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but < 1262556114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, not relevant to me then < 1262556118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: how, in your mind, is it unusable? < 1262556126 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never asked for your opinion. < 1262556139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, webkit might be worth a try < 1262556167 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Crufty, slow ui; slow performance; requires extensions to just be not retarded < 1262556180 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit? don't be riddiculous, just look at Slowfari < 1262556181 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory hog too < 1262556193 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Webkit is the fastest engine. < 1262556199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, if it supports features I use. Like adblock, noscript, firebug (script debugger and live editor for css/html plus more). And I'm not interested in your opinion on those add-ons < 1262556201 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from maybe Opera's < 1262556214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: It's not slow to the point of unusability unless you're doing something stupid; the bit about extensions is part of its appeal < 1262556221 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop using me as a soapbox. < 1262556229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, hm? < 1262556235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? :D < 1262556238 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird:" should preferably be relevant to me... < 1262556257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that the complaints about speed/memory are not valid, because they are) < 1262556273 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You have to download third party stuff to make it not terrible == it is shit < 1262556304 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: what exactly? < 1262556306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well since you were recommending them to me < 1262556315 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You asked. < 1262556319 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ima go sleep now < 1262556322 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tired. < 1262556326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I thought you were suggesting ones that would fit me < 1262556329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before or after you back up your assertions? < 1262556342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, before, wouldn't be ehird otherwise < 1262556345 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Its all a conspiracy to avoid answering you! < 1262556353 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxx < 1262556356 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zzzzzzz < 1262556357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzz? < 1262556359 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1262556374 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1262556385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, firefox 3.5 seems quite snappy to me, older versions less so < 1262556393 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like ff < 1262556425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, codewise it is horrible < 1262556440 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and firebug is irreplaceable < 1262556444 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try running a ton of JavaScript < 1262556449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 3 complaints for Firefox 3.5: < 1262556453 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Memory consumption < 1262556455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well I do use noscript anyway < 1262556459 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - JavaScript speed < 1262556469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I seldom visit js heavy sites < 1262556473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty irrelevant; regular page script isn't what does it < 1262556475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course firefox itself is js-heavy < 1262556478 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262556482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what does it then? < 1262556489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - JavaScript garbage collection shuts the whole thing down < 1262556496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: running a JS application (like ChatZilla) < 1262556499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or Wave) < 1262556504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah, never used them < 1262556516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChatZilla isn't terrible, but Wave just nukes it < 1262556520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, for irc I tend to prefer a real client < 1262556530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for wave, well google want people to use chrome, no? < 1262556535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :/ < 1262556543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CZ is a real client, if I ever get it running in XULRunner < 1262556547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, why not replace firefox's js engine < 1262556556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they just got a knew one? < 1262556559 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still sucks? < 1262556563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knew one? < 1262556567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it doesn't leak memory any more < 1262556569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new you mean? < 1262556570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*new one < 1262556587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the memory leakage is left up to Xorg < 1262556599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, does the new one JIT? < 1262556599 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg leaks? < 1262556606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no clue < 1262556629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I think it's other applications leaking X resources or something, but it's only cured by restarting X < 1262556638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also there is a solution that google won't be able to do anything about: start using v8d in firefox < 1262556647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will be exactly as fast as chrome < 1262556648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1262556659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are pretty large downsides to that < 1262556659 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.v8d.org/? < 1262556672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, whatever the one google used < 1262556677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it called v8 or such? < 1262556681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the exact name < 1262556684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean the script engine? < 1262556688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well yes < 1262556705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I think Firefox's script engine is pretty married to the rest of it < 1262556708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, v8d sounds like an irc network I was on years ago. long before I was on freenode < 1262556712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1262556714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I mixed them up < 1262556720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that irc network still exists < 1262556733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh seems so < 1262556743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the v8 engine < 1262556748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, v8 it was then < 1262556749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262556749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to google < 1262556756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they know ;P < 1262556775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, anyway, why so married you meant < 1262556775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I also hate the abysmal set of Linux plugins, but that's not really FF's fault < 1262556784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what? < 1262556787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: difficult to separate < 1262556790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abysmal set of Linux plugins? for what? < 1262556799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, bad design, should be made modular < 1262556807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Linux plugins cause freezes, leaks, etc. especially Flash < 1262556812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a clean interface < 1262556827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh hah, I don't use any plugins. Especially not closed source ones < 1262556830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I agree it's bad design; I'm not 100% sure that's the case though and it's not my problem either way < 1262556841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you really care that much about open source? < 1262556852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well there is one limit: nvidia drivers < 1262556855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do need 3D graphics < 1262556873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, apart from that and BIOS, plus possible some firmware. I think I'm clean < 1262556874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the new open-source driver supposed to be better than the closed-source ones? < 1262556882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, isn't that for ATI? < 1262556893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No... what was it called... it was on /. < 1262556903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, on /? < 1262556905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1262556911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nouveau < 1262556914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /. < 1262556914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin boot dev etc home lib lib64 lost+found media mnt opt proc root sbin srv sys tmp usr var < 1262556922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see anything about nvidia there < 1262556923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1262556932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262556949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"3D support is worked on using Gallium3D and can (depending on the Chip generation and the applications) be quite usable. Breakage in the 3D-drivers can (and will) however occur, they are known and are not needed to be reported. When that status change this page will be updated. " < 1262556950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1262556955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like out of question for me < 1262556959 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the /. article, there's a preloader that's part of the closed-source stuff, but otherwise it's open-source < 1262556962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I need flight sim and such to work < 1262556966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1262556975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what chipset I have < 1262556977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those listed < 1262556982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I'm surprised you care that much about open source < 1262556984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G73 [GeForce 7600 GS] (rev a2) < 1262556996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm a big fan of it, but I'm not stupid about it < 1262556998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, can you figure out which on http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix that is? < 1262557015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1262557020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NV40 < 1262557022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1262557039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks fairly bad < 1262557055 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1262557135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, probably it might be useful around the time nvidia drops driver support for my card < 1262557138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully < 1262557154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you hate closed-source stuff so much < 1262557155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262557166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a real question, not an accusation or the like) < 1262557203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, binary blob, you can't fix it if it breaks. for libraries and drivers: you can't easily debug crashes in your own programs if they happen in binary blobs < 1262557204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1262557240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: those are all reasons against using it when an alternative exists, but if there's no alternative (like with Flash)? < 1262557259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the security aspect (harder to sneak in malicious code) is another part. Sure, I won't review everything myself for open source, but the fact that any user could means it is much more risky to try it in open source < 1262557277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed again < 1262557284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, with flash there is, only flash I care about is youtube videos. Works with youtube-dl + vlc < 1262557315 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you seem to have a rather RMSan aversion from proprietary stuff < 1262557317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also, even buggy but non-malicious code tends to be more rare in open source in my experience < 1262557364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any open source project with a sufficiently large user base, there will be someone who does fix bugs he/she encounters < 1262557374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and submits a patch < 1262557379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not counting things I do at work, the only proprietary stuff I use regularly is Flash and various web applications < 1262557391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proprietary/closed source/ < 1262557411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well, there is java mostly at university web portal system thingy < 1262557414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, BIOS too) < 1262557428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that either but not as bad as flash < 1262557435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's open source now :) < 1262557459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes but it is still buggy, open source haven't yet had full effect on it < 1262557466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed on that point < 1262557476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so it's more a usability thing than a proprietary thing? < 1262557477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how long it took for firefox to get reasonable... < 1262557486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it still is fairly bad in part) < 1262557507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also rolling release distros tend to be least buggy, and most up-to-date < 1262557519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1262557521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least buggy I can explain with "no deadlines". < 1262557525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't quite understand that < 1262557540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "most up-to-date" would require deadlines. so well quite a paradox < 1262557554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, consider arch linux vs. ubuntu < 1262557589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu is buggier than arch I would say. More well integrated, but bugs exist and are often fixed in a "not really fixed" way < 1262557594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais could tell you more about that < 1262557625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an Ubuntu user, I agree about the 'not really fixed' bit < 1262557656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, arch on the other hand tends to be 1) more bleeding edge (sometimes uncomfortably so) 2) less buggy < 1262557679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, not as well integrated, things won't work out of box. But it won't beep at you a lot during shutdown < 1262557811 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262558493 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which < 1262558505 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go *compiles nvidia for custom kernel* < 1262558642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1262558946 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay nice bootchar < 1262558948 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chart* < 1262558950 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ^ < 1262558961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262558972 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, slightly more than 25 seconds boot time < 1262558975 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lot of services < 1262558994 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could speed it up I think < 1262559020 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific, moving stuff forwards and letting them start concurrently < 1262559022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262559058 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, almost 5 seconds of that is mostly idling while waiting for dhcp reply < 1262559143 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm dwm < 1262559145 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1262560327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have a good logic game I can play quickly (like *gasp* Flash?) < 1262560587 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMzVnbQ < 1262560599 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to be faster < 1262560633 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartd actually makes it slower before, due to more disk activity making dhclient take longer to load < 1262562590 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric