< 1262908829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but... that's not really usable. < 1262908838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, Win95 explorer.exe is actually more usable than XP's. < 1262908856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95's interface was... almost as pure as Macintosh System 6/7's. < 1262908892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually quite sad to leave my Win95 VM for OS X when I was bored with it. < 1262908898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the application compatibility rather puts a damper on that. < 1262908955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why Wine's explorer clones the Win3.1 fileman
< 1262908975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it seems like a power interface to silly people? :P < 1262909003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually really pleasantly surprised by Win95's explorer; especially how it opens directories in a cascade pattern so you can easily move up the directory tree simply by clicking on a window title. < 1262909004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1262909010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an awful, arcane interface. < 1262909019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use Emacs. < 1262909078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cygwin runs on Windows 95. Clearly you should immediately switch to a Windows 95 + Emacs system. < 1262909110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought they had just phased that out? < 1262909118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe in 1.7. < 1262909132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry though; Cygwin is so outdated and buggy that you won't be able to tell the difference when using 1.5. < 1262909142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 only dropped support because they added half-assed Unicode support, iirc. < 1262909349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half-assed? Ugh. < 1262909396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Does Cygwin even do much notable to programs on it outside of GCC and libc? < 1262909448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do anything to libc, it just uses newlib. < 1262909462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, "libposix" they do. < 1262909485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's newlib. < 1262909491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The libc that's easiest to port! < 1262909529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell Cygwin is glacially slow (shell scripting is out of the question; ./configure takes a minute+), hacky, run by people with a mild case of idiocy, and should have been dumped in the 90s. < 1262909560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wow... < 1262909568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.1.2.1&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=glibc vs. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.7;content-type=text%2Fplain < 1262909570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and that's for a stock ./configure btw < 1262909578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More advanced ones, say 3+ minutes < 1262909581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glibc strlen vs. OpenBSD strlen) < 1262909599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah glibc is really retarded w/ strlen < 1262909610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i run strlen(million chars long string) in a tight loop ALL THE TIME < 1262909612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... Maximally retarded. < 1262909618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it has one good use < 1262909628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explaining how to read in machine words to speed up memory access < 1262909632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strinngs < 1262909634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*strings < 1262909661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fucking sick of the "license at the top of every file" convention < 1262909698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glibc must be insane to port. < 1262909840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that file alone explains why statically linked glibc programs are so huge... < 1262910070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately right now our servers are overloaded and we have no more download slots left for non-members. Of course you can also try again later." < 1262910070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck you rapidshare < 1262910242 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been throwing that up at me 9 times out of 10 for the past couple of months < 1262910254 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREW YOU, WE GOT PAYING CUSTOMERS < 1262910267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone in the history of ever ever bought a rapidshare premium account < 1262910268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1262910294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 seconds remaining < 1262910295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwright < 1262910304 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once there was a drunk person in peterborough < 1262910307 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who bought one < 1262910319 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got so excited and to this day refuse to believe it was a fluke < 1262910335 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1262910379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: there was also that telepathic hermit who was humming a song that happened to exactly coincide with their most expensive registration < 1262910402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the credit card was actually a middle manager's they tracked down the hermit and bludgeoned him to death for not paying < 1262910404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factual story. < 1262910412 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard that < 1262910451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was back in -3.2 BC though, before we decided to use natural numbers followed by BC or AD for years < 1262910545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to be true because all telepaths are hermits < 1262910554 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1262910565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no it's the other way around < 1262910570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes from the dampness of the caves they live in < 1262910571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't stand being around people either, if you could their thoughts < 1262910573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TELEPATHIC dampness < 1262910579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hear < 1262910581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you accidentally the telepathy < 1262910582 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262910586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's empathy no < 1262910597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's both < 1262910611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're different hermit orders though < 1262910626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hermitism is very hierarchical and rigid and regulated and all that i guess < 1262910647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1262910673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the telepathic ones, since they can have meetings without showing up < 1262910684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to show up anyway though < 1262910685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude not to < 1262910710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they avoided that by making physically showing up against the order's rules < 1262910735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with magic < 1262910744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empathic ones have a harder time doing this, though, since they can only transmit feelings < 1262910774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have a very effective alarm system < 1262910820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i'm just imagining an empathic hermit smiling and dancing when (s)he likes a proposal < 1262910830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and banging their head against the cave wall when they think it's an affront to hermitmanity < 1262910860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that is a word, ehird < 1262910908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still have to distribute the proposals in writing though < 1262910924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they employ psychopaths for this purpose, since they are devoid of empathy < 1262910970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so won't disturb the hermit's meditations. at least not for that reason. < 1262911006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the psychopaths are their main reason for needing the alarm system in the first place < 1262911092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have considered changing to email, but unfortunately many of the hermits are also sensitive to electricity. < 1262911210 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1262911258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eel eck tricksy tea < 1262911269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that dampness in the caves tends to wreak havoc with the computers too < 1262911421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Dampness in the Caves < 1262911429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little known prequel to A Deepness in the Sky < 1262911448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're forgetting the littler known subdenominated species of hermit < 1262911458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :henpathic, they don't care about hens < 1262911485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eticpath, they talk about star trek figurines in pig latin < 1262911492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be hen-_a_-pathic, i think < 1262911502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you questioning me?! < 1262911513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the rules of this game were that you took whatever the other said as granted < 1262911709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262911878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always the rules < 1262912123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pathapathic ones are bizarre. < 1262912149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as bizarre as the 'patapathic ones? < 1262912761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ne. < 1262912782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1262912914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did not realise that Windows does not come with a C library...
< 1262912922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1262912948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Development on Windows must be more of a PITA than I thought. < 1262912975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, hell, you'd have trouble just finding libraries that won't involved conflicting libcs... < 1262912991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1262913000 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to include the C++ runtime in your code, for instance < 1262913007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1262914453 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262914555 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1262914644 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262915320 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262915419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262915816 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1262916025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I sanely set up an SVN server with TortoiseSVN? < 1262916136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you cannot sanely set up an SVN server when there exists Git. < 1262916520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Hg < 1262916657 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have crashed a universe < 1262916670 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really, doubt it, but still < 1262919185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1262919254 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Setting up SVN server is bit of PITA. :-) < 1262919276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use svn+ssh < 1262919318 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too slow. :-) < 1262919343 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that I might be able to use normish. ty coppro < 1262919350 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first, SG-1 < 1262919356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 sgi < 1262919359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sg1 < 1262919380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the guy in charge of the project I'm working on addicted < 1262919394 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now the game has several references < 1262919409 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe the original game also had references, but much more subtle) < 1262919449 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including a reference to something not particularly notable that happened in 1 (rather notable) episode < 1262919554 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have as many explosions per second as possible? :-> < 1262919828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What's the reference < 1262919860 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, there's a point in one of the puzzles where you must do stuff, and one of the results is a red light shining through a gem < 1262919892 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw the scene in Full Circle shining a laser through a red gem, that reminded me of that in the game < 1262919919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262919921 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the big bad is called To'Rak. Ok, so if that's a reference, it's in name only, but still < 1262920328 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262920392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: have you played the new LoZ game yet? < 1262920396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has stargates in it < 1262920403 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LoZ? < 1262920438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legend of Zelda < 1262920472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are bad pics, sorry: < 1262920476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af190/shinkukage09/StargateLOZ.jpg < 1262920480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af190/shinkukage09/StargateLOZactive.jpg < 1262920484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can find better ones < 1262920535 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I set normish up as an svn server? < 1262920647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set it up for svn+ssh for sure < 1262920652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably over http as well < 1262920663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if you could set up an svn raw server < 1262920752 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would svn+ssh:// allow others to access it without giving them access to my normish account? < 1262920833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd need normish accounts of their own < 1262920858 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh bleh < 1262920930 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, is that the case with all of these options, or just svn+ssh? < 1262920937 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just svn+ssh < 1262920944 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other two require a daemon to run as the server < 1262920981 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no way to run that under normal privs? < 1262920994 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly is < 1262920996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1262921003 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a network server, so probably < 1262923828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1262923836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my channels were practically silent while I was gone < 1262925952 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262931108 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262931126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason why they have IIII and IV for 4, is because IIII is for clocks, didn't you know that? < 1262931234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262932860 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting…" < 1262932879 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1262933853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting…" < 1262933870 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1262934202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262934498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1262934514 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262934838 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1262937590 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262937599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1262937600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1262939297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1262939344 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1262939402 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262939821 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262941005 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do freaking anything for a new router." < 1262941049 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262943790 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1262945452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1262948152 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262948539 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'so you make the effort of scanning ~4billion IP addresses and all you come up with is some cell phone snaps of a 8x8 wall print?' < 1262951555 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262954691 0 :nsinreal!n=opera@179-117-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262954808 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262955989 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262956509 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262956518 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1262956594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:08:34 * pikhq did not realise that Windows does not come with a C library... < 1262956594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, neither does Ubuntu. < 1262956599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor OS X. < 1262956604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor FreeBSD. < 1262956665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:06 The reason why they have IIII and IV for 4, is because IIII is for clocks, didn't you know that? < 1262956665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks use that, but it is not there for clocks. < 1262957913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god I just realised something < 1262957916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox is now owned by Oracle < 1262958126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird < 1262958129 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howsit goin < 1262958138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all goin and whatnot. < 1262958145 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1262958148 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant have it not goin < 1262958413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows XP installs bloody fast once you've mutilated it to fit into 177 megs. < 1262958424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows XP brutally mutilated: Installs faster than Ubuntu!" < 1262958613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have accidentally lobbed of Japanese/Chinese character supporrt in my mutilation! < 1262958614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL < 1262958615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*support < 1262958875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, it starts up to the login screen in two seconds < 1262958901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok one issue though: can't login as administrator, which is the only account :-D < 1262958971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is problematic < 1262959081 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that sounds like you have created a very secure distribution of win xp, by making admin the only account and prohibiting login to it, that prevents large categories of exploits < 1262959110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's incredibly secure, it even waits some seconds after you hit OK before telling you you can't login as administrator < 1262959120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prevents brute-force OK-clicking attacks < 1262959127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed to confuse the computer into letting the user in < 1262959135 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1262959140 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great design choice < 1262959162 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some seconds" < 1262959167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User name: Administrator < 1262959167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1262959168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[OK] [Cancel (disabled)] [Options >>] < 1262959168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'mon guys, let's see if we can't get me into this system :P < 1262959172 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get to the login screen faster than it takes for it to realize you can't log in? < 1262959176 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favorite bits of rio actually is a tiny bit of code commented as /* the purpose of this is to discard frantic user clicking during brief periods of inactivity */ < 1262959181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yep < 1262959189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1262959202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winxp from bios handing over to the bootloader to graphical login screen here is like ~3s < 1262959209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only i could log in < 1262959236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the install was pretty sweet < 1262959238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took about 5-6 minutes < 1262959241 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1262959249 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it still show all the stuff in those three seconds? < 1262959253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the textmode formatting+copying stage took about 3 minutes < 1262959255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All different screens we usually see < 1262959262 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inability to log in is not a defect. This bug should have been filed as a feature request. Login functionality has been deferred to an indeterminate future OS version. WONTFIX." < 1262959264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discarding my futzing with the settings in the graphical part it took about 2-3 minutes < 1262959267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 4 minutes tops < 1262959279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It shows the Windows XP with the [ ==== ] scroller. < 1262959284 0 :nsinreal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262959289 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only that? < 1262959292 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then login screen? < 1262959294 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the naked babes? < 1262959297 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fireworks? < 1262959306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes < 1262959309 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont use windows, but since everyone says its so great, i assume you get those when you start it up < 1262959309 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds sweet < 1262959326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I stripped out a lot of shit though < 1262959335 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I can see thot < 1262959336 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a < 1262959341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the sounds, the entire theme support, wireless support, I think even DHCP < 1262959357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ehird < 1262959364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything even remotely server-like, things that windows media player depends on to even *run*, ... < 1262959370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the constraint-functional gl < 1262959400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanna discuss it a bit later? < 1262959408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I did improve the graphical part of the installer, though, by making it use a black background and an InstallShield-esque dialog instead of the shitty Luna crap that's used by default < 1262959417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sure? I guess. < 1262959435 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you change it anyway? < 1262959456 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. im feeling kinda shit right now but hopefully later ill be better enough to talk coherently about this crap < 1262959457 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1262959469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: nLite + reckless abandon < 1262959496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it even lighter try slimming down Windows 2000, that supports like 90% of the stuff XP does < 1262959503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if the stuff says it doesn't) < 1262959512 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1262959516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: One thing I didn't bother with is stripping out the IE engine < 1262959535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you did that, and used the Windows 95 explorer as explorer.exe, that'd be pretty light. < 1262959537 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask that, but... it's apparently quite central < 1262959550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's not < 1262959554 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1262959555 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1262959558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It breaks the default explorer, < 1262959561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Media Player, < 1262959574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help & Support including .chm (I guess you could use a third-party reader) < 1262959579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some misc. stuff < 1262959583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really not all that much < 1262959600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for third party stuff you could, like, use http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/control.htm < 1262959639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Vista onwards, though, use IE for, like, everything < 1262959644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the vista/7 control panel is actually ie < 1262959648 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1262959663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,, < 1262959665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't MS say they were going to decentralize the use of IE in Vista? < 1262959673 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall reading something like that < 1262959676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. I don't think so. < 1262959682 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I may well be wrong < 1262959684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were lying, if they did. < 1262959703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh also nLite lets you roll in service packs and updates into the install which is sweeeeeet < 1262959710 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1262959711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make programs (i.e. installers) execute on first boot < 1262959723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and roll in drivers too < 1262959777 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262959818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pu7o.org/pix/nt4sh_xp.png Windows NT 4 (i.e. Windows 95 ported to NT)'s shell in XP? Why yes indeed. < 1262959823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft sure are rabid about backwards compat < 1262959873 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1262959986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sillydog.org/forum/sdp_95595.php&sid=5758688f796265bb2f8336806d81d9ba#95595 ;; you can even download it! < 1262960535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KernelEx is an Open Source compatibility layer with an aim to allow running Windows 2000/XP-only applications on Microsoft Windows 98 and Microsoft Windows Millennium operating systems." < 1262960536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gawps
< 1262960559 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a gawp < 1262960631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur mom < 1262960635 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1262960892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound blaster live cards have a ridiculous number of mixer controls. This image was stitched together from multiple screenshots: < 1262960893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMzczMA/sblive_mixer_controls.png < 1262960904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning: *very* wide) < 1262960917 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1262960918 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one < 1262960921 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1262960925 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not THAT wide < 1262960953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This behavior can occur if the account you are using to connect with has a null (blank) password. You cannot establish Remote Desktop connections when you are using an account with a null password." < 1262960962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr my windows doesn't work because Administrator has no password < 1262960965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i was given a choice < 1262960977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, well, sure it could have been worse, if I had managed to get alsamixer to also show those of the on-board chipset. About two screenshots would have been needed for that one < 1262960985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 4240 pixels isn't wide? I would like to purchase your display(s). < 1262960991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the 6 or so for the sbLive card < 1262961001 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1262961001 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I need to scroll < 1262961004 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't THAT wide < 1262961015 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of large images < 1262961021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the 27 inch iMac only has 2560 pixels. And the T221 only has 3840. < 1262961034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I wonder if it *is* possible to get a single display that wide. < 1262961047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: physically, yes < 1262961048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 42" monitors and such tends to have fairly low DPI < 1262961057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice? If you go to a manufacturer with a lot of money, probably. < 1262961061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I can log into this XP with safe mode < 1262961061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, in pixels, and physical one monitor < 1262961062 0 :nsinreal!n=opera@179-117-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262961065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh custom order? < 1262961066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it to change the password < 1262961068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only? < 1262961086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "more or less off the shelf" < 1262961088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not custom order... more like "here's $50 million dollars — design and produce one model". < 1262961118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts stripped down XP in safe mode
< 1262961127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is pretty simple if you cut down all the shit. :P < 1262961134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, login succeeded! < 1262961148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you prefer to use System Restore to […]" < 1262961148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I? I removed that component from the CD. < 1262961160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the resolution sucks in safe mode iirc < 1262961161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a taskbar; that's reassuring. < 1262961171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot if you could change it < 1262961177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x480x32 isn't bad... < 1262961188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only using this to add an account or whatever. < 1262961210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee; the only type you can choose is Windows Classic style, and the only two schemes are Windows Classic and Windows Staandard. < 1262961212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Standard < 1262961217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP handles being lobotomised surprisingly well. < 1262961240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Screen saver < 1262961240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (None) | V ] < 1262961240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| Blank" < 1262961246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting choice < 1262961260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desktop background choices: "(None)" < 1262961280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 640x480x32 isn't too bad on 1) CRT 2) virtualization in window. However it is horrible on a TFT with a native res of 1280x1024. And imagine it on a wide screen tft < 1262961316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/Z8PrO.png < 1262961321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in what way is it stripped down? < 1262961333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Over 50% of Windows components removed. < 1262961341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is over 400 megs smaller. < 1262961342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you did it? < 1262961346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with nLite. < 1262961348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262961352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also integrated SP3 into it. < 1262961356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nLite isn't an automated thing or anything < 1262961365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1262961365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just gives you a checkbox for every single damn component in the whole system < 1262961369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1262961374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dependency checks? < 1262961378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also lets you integrate service packs and stuff automatically, but the main bulk was that. < 1262961380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1262961391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, could have been worse < 1262961399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to drop IE? < 1262961429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The browser executable, yes. The rendering engine, yes (but you'll have to remove a bunch of other stuff too. Most of the stuff that depends on it is useless, though, except for the file manager and .chm help files) < 1262961440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose to keep both so I could download a browser with ease. < 1262961449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual .exe file is tiny, it just calls up the DLL pretty much < 1262961457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume windows update won't work on that thing any more < 1262961462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it will. < 1262961468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how much disk space does the clean install use? < 1262961480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no issues with it trying to update non-existent files? < 1262961488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checked. 1.13 gigs < 1262961502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think so. < 1262961510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1262961511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[X] Allow Indexing Service to index this disk for fast file searching" < 1262961518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't HAVE indexing service, Windows. :) < 1262961554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kept in the important stuff of course. FreeCell, Hearts, Minesweeper, Solitaiire and Spider Solitaire are all there. < 1262961559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is Paint. < 1262961568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Sound Recorder. < 1262961572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are all tiny :P < 1262961582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No HyperTerminal or anything thoughh < 1262961612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I changed start menu submenus to open in 20ms, feels a lot less like waaiting < 1262961614 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262961617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's add an account to this thing < 1262961635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, the account pictures are all IE's [x] image not found image < 1262961636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1262961672 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262961702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1262961703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there. http://omploader.org/vMzczMA/sblive_mixer_controls.png < 1262961717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've lobotomised Windows! < 1262961722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP, to be precise. < 1262961738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~100 meg install CD expanding to ~1 gig on disk. < 1262961741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything must go! < 1262961749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was stitched together from multiple screenshots. Image is 4240x833. Shows all the controls for my sound card in alsamixer < 1262961754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it actually runs. ...except you can't log in by default, you have to add a password using safe mode. < 1262961792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I could have logged on if I used the username Owner < 1262961795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think it's incredibly ironic that ~1 gig on disk is considered "small" wrt Windows < 1262961808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's half of a regular install < 1262961810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's more the ISO size, anyway < 1262961813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stripped 400 megs off that < 1262961813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1262961822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'll just be some big thingy in XP that everything depends on < 1262961830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, I tend not to control my sound card much at all < 1262961834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from volume balance < 1262961845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: was anything of value lost? < 1262961845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, I even made the installer use Windows 2000's installer, which is smaller. < 1262961846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1262961853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I'm about to do my first non-safe mode login. < 1262961854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see. < 1262961860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing's broken yet. < 1262961880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And it boots to the login screen in seconds. < 1262961892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The little XP loading spinner doesn't even do a full lap. < 1262961919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice < 1262961940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to convert the VirtualBox VM to use SATA, not IDE, soon. < 1262961945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll make it even faster < 1262961953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VBox's SATA emulation is faster than its IDE emulation) < 1262961960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmm, you're confirming certain suspicions I have about Windows < 1262961966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like? < 1262961981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've suspected for a while its slowness is for marketing reasons, indirectly < 1262961986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than anything fundamnetal < 1262961988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fundamental < 1262961992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have done the rather worrying thing here of making Windows XP into a small, fast, rather reasonable desktop OS < 1262962016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do my Windows experiments always end in me somehow putting Windows in a good position? < 1262962017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect whatever you've ended up with will be rather insecure, but I'm not even sure of that < 1262962025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because Windows isn't inherently unreasonable < 1262962025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't remove any security stuff < 1262962032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I removed a lot of things like NetBIOS over TCP/IP < 1262962035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anything it's more secure < 1262962040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd expect security updates to either fail to apply or add them back < 1262962044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the typical way they're packaged < 1262962053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, people update nLite systems a lot as far as I know < 1262962057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it works alright < 1262962068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nLite is the tool that lets you disable components of Windows) < 1262962093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nLite :: ISOContents Windows -> [WindowsComponent] -> ISO Windows < 1262962093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1262962106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a pain chasing dependencies and stuff to make sure the basics worked though < 1262962113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's see how much stuff works < 1262962124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, my office computer (running Windows 7) is having sufficient compatibility problems that the computer support people are putting a Windows XP VM on it < 1262962140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an attempt to actually run the programs that its purpose is to run < 1262962151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your organisation is collectively braindead < 1262962154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(personally I blame it on Xilinx for writing unportable code, but that's another matter...) < 1262962178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X] Use visual styles on windows and buttons < 1262962186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Windows is convinced it has all the components I removed < 1262962189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to convert the VirtualBox VM to use SATA, not IDE, soon. <-- oops. Windows XP. SATA. Oops < 1262962193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running into references to them every few minutes < 1262962199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you just have to install the drivers. < 1262962203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I got it to work but needed a floppy with drivers during the install < 1262962214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that but it failed to copy the drivers < 1262962214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't manage to switch after install < 1262962218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1262962222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll google for help < 1262962227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 32-bit xp? < 1262962229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could save even more by removing the references! < 1262962234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 64-bit xp there seems to be no drivers < 1262962245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XD < 1262962248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 32-bit. < 1262962258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a useful trick is that most of the strings used by a Windows application are stored in the resource object, rather than the executable part < 1262962260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses XP x64? People who want to use Windows XP without caring about application compatibility. i.e. idiots < 1262962276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can change them with a resource editor without disturbing the rest of the aplication < 1262962281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, the install was faster than Ubuntu's install on real hardware < 1262962282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I specifically requested 32-bit < 1262962282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No joke < 1262962289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual copying of files took about 1.5 minutes < 1262962301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the programs are known to have 64-bit compatibility issues < 1262962312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: doesn't actually surprise me, although I assume Ubuntu could be cut down to be faster than Windows < 1262962328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I renamed C:\Documents and Settings to C:\Users :-) < 1262962333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Ubuntu installs drivers for every piece of hardware it supports by default, Windows copies some .cabs over instead < 1262962344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I couldn't find where to rename C:\Program Files to C:\Programs < 1262962353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that Ubuntu has better hardware support than Windows XP included with the OS, that's going to be more drivers < 1262962357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Vista? < 1262962368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista doesn't do that < 1262962369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1262962378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1262962384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vista does C:\Users < 1262962386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not \Programs < 1262962395 0 :nsinreal!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1262962408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION greps the registry for Program Files
< 1262962433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, quite a lot of stuff referring to dlls < 1262962442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only regedit had a global search and replace >:) < 1262962456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION deletes AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS.
< 1262962459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing the name of a dll in the registry is an incredibly bad idea, from what I remember of Windows development < 1262962462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, why are they even there? They're not even loaded. < 1262962468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, Microsoft does it. < 1262962475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? that doesn't mean it's a good idea < 1262962481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262962485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also deletes IO.SYS
< 1262962494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MSDOS.SYS... < 1262962512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF Windows just replaced them < 1262962514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once extracted the entire source code for a wizard that made Microsoft Binder files < 1262962516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I disabled that < 1262962521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it had all been written in VBA for Excel < 1262962533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just took a simple macro command to turn the vbVeryHidden flag off on the macros < 1262962561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Elliott is still in \Users\Owner < 1262962565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hidden can be false (not hidden), true (hidden, but you can unhide it via the GUI), very-hidden (hidden, and you need to use a macro to hide it)) < 1262962567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, XEmacs is quite nice on Windows < 1262962571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ugly < 1262962577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WTF Windows just replaced them <-- WFP < 1262962583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but I disabled that < 1262962586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it reset it after the install < 1262962587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1262962592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disabling WFP speeds up the install loads apparently) < 1262962598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's WFP? < 1262962601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I believe autoexec.bat is used for cmd.exe < 1262962605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows File Protection < 1262962609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :config.sys is not though < 1262962611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1262962613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change or delete a file Windows likes? < 1262962613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM! < 1262962615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, autoexec.nt I thought < 1262962616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're reverted in seconds. < 1262962622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh, maybe < 1262962661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which nicely violates Windows' file-extension-indicates-file-type convention < 1262962671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there's config.nt too with an entirely different format < 1262962681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WFP is just the first step towards making windows viral < 1262962696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future, it will take over other partitions, not just protect itself < 1262962699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :del /F /A:H IO.SYS < 1262962701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feels good man < 1262962714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, reverted yet? < 1262962731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, apparently Windows doesn't keep a backup of them I guess < 1262962739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just fished them out of \RECYCLER beforehand < 1262962745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure a backup copy is how it works < 1262962749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1262962760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely flabbergasts
< 1262962779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/Tweaking-XP-Windows-File-Protection-SP2.html < 1262962779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabling WFP involves hex editing a system DLL. Noted. < 1262962820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you could do it in octal instead < 1262962836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1262962836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets start menu to classic
< 1262962986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know if there's a program that empties the recycle bin in Windows XP by default? < 1262962990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would like to add it to my start menu. < 1262963082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a one-line batch script, and add that to your start menu < 1262963090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/AYA7q.png < 1262963092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some choice < 1262963101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I kinda like the Windows confirm prompt, though. :P < 1262963107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I could. I will. < 1262963116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: five lines of VBSctipy, then (ugh) < 1262963123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*VBScript < 1262963126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use JScript with WSH < 1262963134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same objects, after all < 1262963186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, laugh at http://i.imgur.com/AYA7q.png < 1262963199 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that your doing? < 1262963210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally I not only purged the animated dog from search, but reverted the entire search UI to win2k's < 1262963212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: define that < 1262963217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows inside sun inside max os? < 1262963223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I could just use JScript with WSH <-- you installed jscript support? < 1262963236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun is the company that makes VirtualBox, you dolt :P < 1262963245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's part of IE < 1262963260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The thing to laugh at is the fact that Search is a menu with only one item < 1262963263 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262963266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to my evil lobotomising of Windows < 1262963266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, vbscript too? < 1262963270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't know < 1262963275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1262963304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many colours is the system set to < 1262963310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32bit < 1262963333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? why does the blue bar on the side of the start menu look like it was dithered to 8 bits then < 1262963336 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262963343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because IIRC it's a bitmap < 1262963348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just how it is < 1262963354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually /is/ dithered to 8 bits, or possibly even less < 1262963355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm. Bitmaps can be 32-bit you know ;P < 1262963358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual gradient isn't 8-bit, I don't think < 1262963359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262963360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Te text is just ugly < 1262963363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The < 1262963375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why home edition < 1262963380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because < 1262963383 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1262963388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded home edition because it was what I had my serial for < 1262963393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262963395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro = Home + some useless settings nobody uses < 1262963397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big deal < 1262963408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah like ACLs on files < 1262963410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1262963415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Home was banned from joining a network (other than the Internet) < 1262963418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a trick to get that in XP home outside safe mode < 1262963422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Who cares < 1262963424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who cares < 1262963435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had to replace some files with files from a 2000 or NT 4 hotfix < 1262963437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1262963437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: businesses care, presumably < 1262963446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home indeed can't join a domain properly. < 1262963449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then suddenly, full file permissions < 1262963469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be a part of a workgroup, though, I think. < 1262963469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to write some JScript! < 1262963510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION creates \home for storing stuff
< 1262963541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\home\tools\recycle.js. Like some evil bastard lovechild of Unix. < 1262963556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have here a Samba-controlled Windows domain, though with a total of one (1) Windows machines I'm not quite sure why. < 1262963557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, it works < 1262963565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WScript.Echo("Hello, world!"); < 1262963565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WScript.Quit(); < 1262963572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't let anybody tell you Windows doesn't come with development tools < 1262963582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That displays a GUI dialog box, btw.) < 1262963655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it depends what engine you use < 1262963671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wscript.exe is a dialog box, Cscript.exe just outputs it as text < 1262963686 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262963703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1262963721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>cscript /Nologo recycle.js < 1262963721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1262963787 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1262964024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1262964026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targets (1): ghc-6.10.4-1 < 1262964026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total Download Size: 80.29 MB < 1262964026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total Installed Size: 563.95 MB < 1262964028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1262964039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1262964047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, over 550 MB < 1262964055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised < 1262964072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it comes with all the profiling libraries or something. < 1262964076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1262964082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the pkgbuild
< 1262964087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, 64-bit code is fatter. < 1262964094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And languages like Haskell have a LOT of pointers. < 1262964095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LOT. < 1262964097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think thunks. < 1262964105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single lazy expression generates a pointer. < 1262964135 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262964138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure 64-bit is fatter. But usually not quite as much. Let me check ghc on ubuntu (6.8.2 there, so I would expect slightly smaller) < 1262964320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, recycle.js now does everything *but* the actual emptying. < 1262964320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed-Size: 197952 < 1262964328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says apt-cache show < 1262964341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so around 193 MB < 1262964362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or MiB you would say < 1262964399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, those profiling libs. What configure switch would enable then? < 1262964400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1262964411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since arch's PKGBUILD just uses: < 1262964413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --prefix=/usr < 1262964422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the make configure file < 1262964429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But it shouldn't inflate it that much < 1262964431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the: < 1262964433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest building GHC yourself < 1262964434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cp $startdir/build.mk mk/build.mk < 1262964435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line < 1262964441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes probably a good idea < 1262964442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard < 1262964445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread a course name in an email: "T-61.9910 Adventures in Matrix and Tensor Factorizations". (It was "Advances" instead; thought someone had a sense of humour there.) < 1262964451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes ages iirc < 1262964456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't you need ghc to do it < 1262964459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About three hours. < 1262964463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can download a bootstrap GHC. < 1262964470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building < 1262964480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Full build with max optimisation (slow build) < 1262964480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BuildFlavour = perf < 1262964483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to program in Haskell I suggest enabling the profiling libs < 1262964484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that build.mk < 1262964489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, don't do that. < 1262964508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that include those profiling libs? < 1262964516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1262964522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just follow the guide on trac :-P < 1262964535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't build the latest GHC, 6.12, though < 1262964540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much stuff supports it yet < 1262964542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it yet < 1262964550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grr, DEL /Q \RECYCLER\* doesn't work < 1262964561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how to empty the recycle bin from the command line? < 1262964575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not offhand < 1262964589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have expected that to work... < 1262964601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(do you need to specify c:\ rather than just \?) < 1262964604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1262964611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that \RECYCLER isn't the 'real' recycle bin < 1262964615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just includes fancy recycle binnish files < 1262964630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the recycle bins are inside it? < 1262964648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds familiar from reinstalling xp side by side with an old xp on some system < 1262964676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing DIR in \RECYCLER gives the header then "File Not Found" < 1262964678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is peculiar < 1262964784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kitenet.net/~joey/hacker_tombstone/ < 1262964784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most depressing Debian-related page you'll read today. < 1262964927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files in the "Recycled" directory are hidden as well, so apply the following command to make them visible: < 1262964927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1262964941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIR /A does it < 1262964983 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-207.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262965020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEL /A: \RECYCLER\*\*, I believe < 1262965031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/A:H < 1262965084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada < 1262965111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var WshShell = new ActiveXObject("WScript.Shell"); < 1262965112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (WshShell.Popup("Do you want to empty the recycle bin?", 0, "Empty Recycle Bin", 4 + 32) == 1) < 1262965112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WshShell.Exec("DEL /A:H /Q \\RECYCLER\\*\\*"); < 1262965120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see you Linuxers do that in three lines :P < 1262965139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 = timeout; 4 = buttons are Yes/No; 32 = question mark icon) < 1262965290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, all done and added to the start menu < 1262965294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was surprisingly painless < 1262965329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It surprises me how nothing's broken yet < 1262965335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, give me something you think I broke :P < 1262965385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me thinks < 1262965395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, most of the things you're more likely to have broken you probably don't care about anyway < 1262965397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like printer sharing < 1262965407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printers? Who said I had printer support? < 1262965410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Xdialog --yesno "Empty recycle bin?" 0 0 && rm -rf <...>' (or something). But that also needs shellbang line. < 1262965414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly < 1262965428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally don't have any support for printers or scanners, even PDF printers. < 1262965430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who uses them! < 1262965433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that would be 2 lines, then < 1262965440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That doesn't need a shebang line. < 1262965446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defaults to /bin/sh. < 1262965447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use PDF printers, then take the PDF to another computer and produce hardcopy from it < 1262965457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it defaults to whatever shell you're running it from < 1262965466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what happens if you run it from e.g. a GNOME menu? < 1262965468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fails to run if it doesn't have a shebang and are running from outside a shell, I think < 1262965474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1262965480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's not three lines, though. (I was writing one with dialog instead of xdialog.) < 1262965491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Let's see you Linuxers do that in three lines :P <-- probably done with dbus these days < 1262965493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shurg* < 1262965537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I considered removing 16-bit support but decided against it < 1262965545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who doesn't love 16-bit programs < 1262965550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1262965550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dbus-binding-tool - audio previewer for the GNOME desktop. < 1262965553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my programs were 16-bit < 1262965554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is way way off < 1262965559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent, FreeCell works < 1262965559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more reliable than 32-bit, I'm not sure why < 1262965568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current theory is bitflips in the 32-bit compiler I had < 1262965573 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1262965596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what browser I should put on this. < 1262965604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps K-Meleon; that's suitably weird. < 1262965635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't include Calculator because you should be using Frink. :-) < 1262965655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package require Tk;if {[tk_messageBox -type yesno -icon question -message "Do you want to empty the recycle bin?"]} {exec "rm -rf ~/trash"} < 1262965666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, no multiple statements on one line < 1262965671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But very good. < 1262965678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although. < 1262965681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That removes ~/trash itself. < 1262965683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Fine, then it's 3 lines. < 1262965685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM rm -rf ~/trash/* < 1262965690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1262965694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 3 lines? What bracing style are you using? < 1262965701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely 4 lines at the least < 1262965706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is that? < 1262965706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know, no fair :-) < 1262965709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tcl < 1262965722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be even shorter in REBOL :-) http://www.rebol.com/oneliners.html < 1262965723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, strictly speaking it's only *two* commands. < 1262965727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dbus-monitor indicates that dbus *is* involved both in moving files to trash and in emptying trash < 1262965737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth I don't know < 1262965750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to determine where the trash dir is, I think < 1262965757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a language can make an internet-accessing GUI program shorter than REBOL, that's some achievement. < 1262965770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, I'll make it two lines. < 1262965797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package require Tk;expr {[tk_messageBox -type yesno -icon question -message "Do you want to empty the recycle bin?"]?[exec "rm -rf ~/trash"]:0} < 1262965809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so cheating. < 1262965812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that in JS too. :P < 1262965819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So very cheating. < 1262965820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looked more like a move command the the gnome vfs layer < 1262965822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a remove one < 1262965825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with byte arrays < 1262965836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably filename, didn't bother trying to put them together < 1262965843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :method call sender=:1.739 -> dest=org.gtk.vfs.Metadata serial=2 path=/org/gtk/vfs/metadata; interface=org.gtk.vfs.Metadata; member=Remove < 1262965843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : array [ < 1262965843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : byte 47 < 1262965843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : byte 104 < 1262965845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1262965879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Get a nicer browser. Get Java. Get Frink. Do updates at some point. Get Corman Lisp. < 1262965887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get Emacs. < 1262965911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well since the first few ones form "/home" and I can't be arsed to work out the rest < 1262965915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is a path < 1262966066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abuh? < 1262966076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got 700 kb a sec. < 1262966082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...And am getting sustained 180 kb a sec. < 1262966086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abuh"? < 1262966090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My link maxes out below 160 or thereabouts. < 1262966097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: An expression of extreme surprise. < 1262966101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you only have 160 kb down? < 1262966119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We pay for 8 megabits, but this fucking village uses the nearest town's exchange < 1262966129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, remember now < 1262966131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only a few miles away, but it caps out my download below 200k < 1262966134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking thing sucks < 1262966146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna move to Scandinavia and get 100 mb :( < 1262966146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so why not pay for less, or will you get even less then? < 1262966162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aren't there rules about how many percent of the stated sped that you have to get at least < 1262966163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we just haven't got around to it, or maybe we are and i just don't know it < 1262966174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no. We transferred from the previous house. < 1262966176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed* < 1262966184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1262966194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm what? < 1262966241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway ~700-760 kilobyte is what I get during good conditions here. Pay for 8 megabit down < 1262966272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I guess it just happened to be good conditions for a few seconds < 1262966289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it showed all the signs of being rate-limited. < 1262966302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happens, often: you get the unlimited speed and then it gets clocked down by the ISP. < 1262966304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...So, ??? < 1262966631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very strange. Also that doesn't happen much here. Does happen at university though < 1262966642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame the wlan < 1262966651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess they try to be nice to short burts < 1262966661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably useful for some commonly used tech < 1262966703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's probably that their rate limiter is asynchronous < 1262966708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1262966710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it run on every piece of traffic, blocking it, would be crazy < 1262966711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1262966721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm guessing that the rate limiter is a separate process that limits the stream < 1262966729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it takes a second or so to kick in < 1262966731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, couldn't they physically limit the link speed < 1262966740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that require using different cables < 1262966747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 100 mbit ethernet isn't artificially rate limited 1 gbit ethernet < 1262966755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm maybe < 1262966777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 mbit, wonderful < 1262966781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now give me an 8 mbit ethernet cable < 1262966798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe it is due to the interface rather < 1262966846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they made the interface in the exchange not handle more than a given speed, there would be no need for rate limiting in other ways would there? < 1262966864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries Opera as a lightweight windows browesr
< 1262966866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*browser < 1262966867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, don't you need a cat6 rather than cat5e for 10 gbit ethernet? < 1262966883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, vonkeror! *runs* < 1262966884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do all of this when you can save money by having a flexible rate limiter < 1262966897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror is hardly lightweight, it uses Gecko. :-) < 1262966911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, [cue: suspiciously] are you trying to be practical? < 1262966928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! I will use telnet. < 1262966934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant for rate limiting < 1262966937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ...phew... close one
< 1262966938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for browser < 1262966939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh. :P < 1262966994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YET ANOTHER FEATURE OF DYNAMIC LINKING: The linker has to topologically sort the objects! < 1262967025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does? < 1262967029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1262967046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1262967056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun worst case performance there < 1262967070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1262967073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to do that < 1262967087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure, but Ulrich Drepper says it's true and he's probably right. < 1262967095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does know rather a lot about dynamic linking, except that it's shit. < 1262967109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I wish my mouse would stop glitching fake middle clicks in virtualbox < 1262967115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many libraries are usually involved? < 1262967120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects. < 1262967123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object files. < 1262967141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh not ld.so? but ld? < 1262967144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... all of the object files in your program/library, and all the dynamic libraries you use. < 1262967153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so, anyway. < 1262967197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because for ld.so I think the stuff it would be required to sort is fairly small. So the n wouldn't be too bad < 1262967222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, for ld wouldn't it have to do the same for static linking too? < 1262967228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ld is used for that as well < 1262967233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! I'm just parroting Drepper. < 1262967262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if it did, ld wouldn't depend on the libraries used by an object to be listed *after* said object. would it? < 1262967270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1262967271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T < 1262967271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOW < 1262967274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must refer to the runtime linker, otherwise it wouldn't make sense < 1262967277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case where you have to load thing A before thing B because B depends on A, topological sorting comes up pretty naturally. < 1262967285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rhetorical question < 1262967355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rhetorical question for a rhesus monkey. (Free-associating here.) < 1262967382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do so many touchscreens seems to react slowly < 1262967390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used one yesterday on a copy machine < 1262967392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the underlying hardware is shit. < 1262967401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it fast on iphone btw? < 1262967408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because they don't use capacitive touchscreens. < 1262967411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Instant. < 1262967419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure guess is that it is related to denouncing of some source < 1262967421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort* < 1262967422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People _do_ play touch-based games on them, you know. It wouldn't exactly work with lag. < 1262967425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(weird typo that) < 1262967426 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish iphone could record conversations < 1262967437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: just get the nsa to wiretap you < 1262967447 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a pretty big thing to me < 1262967449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, can't you write an app to do it? < 1262967451 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to record convos < 1262967453 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1262967458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or buy two iphones, and use voice notes on the other one to record the conveersation < 1262967458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1262967460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conversation < 1262967465 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the api does not allow direct access to the telephone layer < 1262967471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the telcos wouldn't let you access the telephone shit, dude < 1262967484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make sure all that's proprietary < 1262967487 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some/many telephones allow you to record voice convos tho < 1262967490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, oh I thought you meant in the room. < 1262967495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, taking notes < 1262967497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1262967504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: o_o < 1262967524 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people think that < 1262967529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't sound like it would be impossible with android < 1262967532 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have no idea where they come up with that < 1262967539 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :android is gay though < 1262967541 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no cool apps < 1262967543 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no cool games < 1262967546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :android isn't open either < 1262967554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, is that your primary use for a phone? ;P < 1262967561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe, I'm no expert < 1262967562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone is a phone only in name ffs < 1262967570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of phones also beep when they're recording conversations; that's some rule or another too. < 1262967573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telephone is like 15% of its use < 1262967577 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i am going to buy an expensive telephone it might as well be something that makes my life more enjoyable < 1262967588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could make voice controlled games < 1262967590 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzle: that rule is not required by law. < 1262967604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for multiple players < 1262967609 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can access the microphone.. but not when there's a conversation happening. < 1262967617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nintendo want to hire you < 1262967620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, see " for multiple players" < 1262967624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah :P < 1262967626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're working on a new console, the Spiik < 1262967641 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, see $myBallsack < 1262967643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after their previous urination-based interface didn't sell < 1262967647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wat < 1262967647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, of course I guess packet data would work < 1262967649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, ? < 1262967652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1262967653 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1262967653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: wat < 1262967654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1262967663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see you're in ##php < 1262967669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANISH! BANISH! < 1262967676 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes ask them funny questions like < 1262967676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WAK !!
< 1262967677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WAK !!
< 1262967678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WAK !!
< 1262967683 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'what is a design pattern' < 1262967684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue how accessible the telephone audio side is on Maemo, since this N900 is the first one that is actually a phone too. < 1262967685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "$myBallsack" supposed to make sense < 1262967687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pitchfork →→→→
< 1262967688 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they get confused for 30 minutes < 1262967692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ←←← CHEATER
< 1262967697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pitchCHEATERfork
< 1262967702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are dead now < 1262967713 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be why i feel so shit today < 1262967718 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or going to sleep at 5 am < 1262967736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh, undead < 1262967759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers giving up his weirdness quest and just installing chrome
< 1262967760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do know is that the Asterisk port in the Maemo repository isn't (yet, at least) tied to the telephony side of the phone. Audio might be already doable, though. < 1262967803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you get a GSM chipset? Supposedly Apple, Nokia and so on got that from somewhere < 1262967825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use that to build your own. Hm probably need some certification to be allowed :( < 1262967838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster — solving problems the telcos say you can't with technological means since 2009 < 1262967839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1262967840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010 < 1262967860 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was just an answer to you being a smartass :p < 1262967882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not being a smartass this is how AnMaster actually approaches problems like these < 1262967894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenMoko's pretty open -- I guess that's one of the reasons it doesn't do 3G, or something. < 1262967901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "couldn't you do that by using the api or buying a chip" or whatever matter-of-factly < 1262967902 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean 'see x' earlier < 1262967909 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1262967911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openmoko is dead, hooray < 1262967919 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way < 1262967926 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish iphone could record conversations. < 1262967938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/1112FIC326x550.jpg < 1262967938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO STYLISH < 1262967983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't chrome go out of fashion ages ago? < 1262968000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and black goes with everything of course < 1262968006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interwebs say that N900 can record conversations; you just apt-get install pulseaudio-tools, then use parec to record the sink.hw0.monitor and source.hw0 streams to file. < 1262968015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very user-friendly. < 1262968045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dukebox.com/photos/jukebox10r.jpg < 1262968050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archos jukebox^W^Wnokia n900 < 1262968081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite. < 1262968083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though someone else said that the desktop load-monitor widget (!) can also record calls. That's an... obvious place for the feature. < 1262968117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1262968127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1262968254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Java and Frink.
< 1262968260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1262968264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs virtualbox tools first
< 1262968266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The load applet (according to package desc) takes screenshots and records screencasts, so it's not too rprising if they've added call-recording too. (It's a third-party app, not part of the phone software, of course.) < 1262968267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the mouse issue < 1262968324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system is really snappy < 1262968358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mouse issue is your name for "mouse grabbed by guest"? < 1262968383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse issue is my name for "middle clicks happen sporadically that I didn't make". < 1262968387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This happened in a Linux VM too. < 1262968396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Mouse Integration fixes it. < 1262968396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox is teh dum. < 1262968407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never had that issue. Is it OS X hosts only? < 1262968446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It may be an issue with my trackball. < 1262968510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it happen before you used it? < 1262968523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I don't think so. Why are you asking me? It doesn't really matter. < 1262968526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember mooz once hacked together a copy of win95 that was capable of booting to the GUI from a CD, completely without touching the hd. A ramdisk was involved; still, it was a a neat trick. < 1262968545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95. Bah! Real men use Windows NT 4.0. < 1262968559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like 95 but with worse configuration and slightly stabler and it doesn't support games. < 1262968567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Windows NT 4.0. Bah! Real men use Windows 95. < 1262968585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real men do all kinds of craze stuff, based on what I hear on IRC. < 1262968591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Craze stuff. < 1262968595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1262968608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazeeeee stuff. < 1262968621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that Windows either does not think I have a floppy drive, or does not support floppy drives. < 1262968652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Windows 95. Bah! Real men use Windows NT 4.0. <-- 3.1 < 1262968664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 is for homosexuals and pussies. < 1262968677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry I meant windows 3.1 for worksgroup < 1262968679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not NT 3.1 < 1262968689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homosexuals, pussies and clowns. < 1262968709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I doubt the first category wants anything to do with 3.1 for worksgroups < 1262968715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know about cats < 1262968723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clowns yeah < 1262968736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's ACTUAL VAGINAS that use 3.1 for Workgroups. < 1262968739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this on good authority. < 1262968752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.11 for Workgroups is I think more popular. Though I do seem to remember a WfW3.1 existing too. < 1262968769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh maybe it was 3.11 < 1262968771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1262968782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing the titlebar gradiennt from Windows makes it look so... 95. < 1262968786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe because that's what 95 did. < 1262968787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gradient < 1262968791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 3.[0-9] surely must have existed? < 1262968804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually either win3.1 or wfw3.11 < 1262968810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Word for (Windows 3.1) had a titlebar gradient < 1262968812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 was the first 3 < 1262968815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dithered in beautiful 4-bit colour < 1262968826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, forgot microsoft was involved < 1262968828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Makes a man proud. *tear* < 1262968835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means versioning is insane < 1262968836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3.0 existed, the big improvement in 3.1 was support for the 386 < 1262968841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have a feeling plain 3.1 also had a workgroupsy version. < 1262968871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 2^4 colours? Uh... 16 colours < 1262968872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1262968896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there some sort of 386y thing for 3.0 too? I've forgotten most of this stuff. < 1262968897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm still nostalgic for 4-bit colour < 1262968905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my sprite-making was done with it < 1262968907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you still have the old dna maze? < 1262968912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to try it in this VM < 1262968914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have every version < 1262968914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dithering never looks nice in my experience, better to either use more shades or avoid gradients < 1262968923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one do you want? < 1262968935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 for DOS tty, 2 for DOS tty, 3 for Windows, 4 for DOS graphics? < 1262968940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or 5 for SDL?) < 1262968956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like the change from 3 to 4 there < 1262968961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, SDL is boring, I have that on this machine < 1262968963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1262968975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS tty is likely to be completely irrelevant to the version of Windows I'm using < 1262968977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the changes I made for 4 were backported into 3.2 < 1262968981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is DOS graphics < 1262968984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the "current" version of 3 < 1262968998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose 3 or 3.2 is the most reasonable one to try in this context < 1262969009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the levels the same? < 1262969011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1262969012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the SDL one < 1262969019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gameplay's been identical since version 2 < 1262969021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did any of the old ones have 100? < 1262969029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they all use the same set of levels < 1262969036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I write a new level it gets backported, pretty much < 1262969044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it uses a feature I just added and can't be bothered to backport < 1262969059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it'd be nice if there was a slow option in dna maze < 1262969064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for non-fingertappingy times < 1262969091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would sort-of defeat the point, most levels would be trivial like that, but it would be nice to practice I suppose < 1262969172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you open zipfiles on your stripped-down windows xp? < 1262969174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I never got far in it. Slow for practise would be useful < 1262969218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't strip that out because I like that feature < 1262969223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I wish it worked for non-zips too < 1262969250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't be to hard to write support for tht < 1262969252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1262969267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would; you'd have to completely mimic the UI and also write an evil black magic Explorer extension. < 1262969267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP says win3.0 already supports 386s "better"; and there was a Windows/386 2.1 already before that. 3.0 also already had the "386 Enhanced mode". Consequently I'm not so sure that 386 support was the major difference between 3.0/3.1. < 1262969270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens them as folders. < 1262969288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, may have misremembered < 1262969291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know < 1262969330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just have a vague memory of writing a trivial such in delphi when I was young and didn't know better. Wasn't too hard is my memory of it. And I weren't a good programmer back then. < 1262969352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wasn't < 1262969353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1262969357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Delphi. :D < 1262969362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corman Lisp is better, clearly. < 1262969384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Java time. Gulp. < 1262969388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know if it is able to compile a dll < 1262969392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://filebin.ca/ebjwch/dnam3v2-readonly.zip < 1262969398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corman Lisp is totally windowsy. < 1262969400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corman lisp that is < 1262969400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's binary+data only < 1262969404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full Win32 API access, too. < 1262969411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proper Windows MDI IDE. < 1262969414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try to dig out the source if you like, but being Windows the source is partly in binary < 1262969420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the pointers were a pain in delphi though < 1262969443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and windows API has pointers to pointers and lots of structs. At least delphi had windows.h translated already iirc < 1262969448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do realise you just made the first public release of DNA Maze? :D < 1262969451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a delphi unit < 1262969460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh, probably not < 1262969467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would a) have to find it < 1262969471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and b) find a version of Windows it ran on < 1262969473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is public enough < 1262969474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it runs on XP < 1262969476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sdl version? < 1262969480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compatibility is not an issue < 1262969481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that one probably counts as shareware < 1262969482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not the sdl version < 1262969490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant "can I get the" < 1262969491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 3.2, which is Windows + backports from 4 < 1262969492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep up < 1262969495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it only has 92 levels created, and the single-player mode is the only one that works < 1262969498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's still a release :P < 1262969500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase I seem to have lost my copy < 1262969502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1262969505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah < 1262969505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems* < 1262969510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh, now I can charge people for the other 8 levels! < 1262969526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you my patched copy, which lets you compile a debug version for uber-lazy checking out the later levels. :-) (Only if ais523 consents, though.) < 1262969536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with that < 1262969547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: zip okay with you? I'm too lazy to open a terminal < 1262969567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for? < 1262969569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty sure there was a debug shortcut for checking out later levels already, although I think it might have been a compile-time option, and may have been in a different version < 1262969569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1262969572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1262969584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the later levels will be pretty much impossible without practice on the earlier ones, though < 1262969590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thats okay with me < 1262969594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it includes my build system which uses sdl-config like it should :P < 1262969610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did ais523 use? configure + pkg-config? < 1262969616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :direct Makefile < 1262969621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's a makefile too, but it calls sdl-config < 1262969624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of hardcoding -lSDL etc < 1262969630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a direct makefile would *include* a call to sdl-config < 1262969632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262969633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1262969636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why? :) < 1262969643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: didn't realise it had its own config thing < 1262969646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he's a lazy bastard and didn't know about sdl-config :-P < 1262969648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs didn't mention it < 1262969648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262969656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl-config just calls pkg-config iirc < 1262969660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how am I meant to find out, except by reading the documentation? < 1262969673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploading < 1262969684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can I post it publicly? < 1262969685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pkg-config --libs sdl < 1262969685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lSDL -lpthread < 1262969685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pkg-config --libs sdl < 1262969685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lSDL -lpthread < 1262969688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /msg < 1262969689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err copy fail < 1262969697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pkg-config --cflags sdl < 1262969697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/SDL < 1262969702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why the gnu source I wonder < 1262969707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes so long as you don't advertise it and leave the copyright vague enough that nobody can download it legally < 1262969718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I won't make AnMaster break the law < 1262969725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that won't deterr anyone except you < 1262969731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I've given him permission myself < 1262969732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1262969736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deter < 1262969738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay fine < 1262969741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know < 1262969767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he wants to sue them later I guess ;P < 1262969770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/rqschw/dnamaze5_patched.zip. I grant you the right, by the powers invested in me by ais523, to let you download this. If you are not AnMaster, you do not have this permission, and ais523 will be very sad if you download it. VERY SAD. < 1262969777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry if the zip includes OS X crap < 1262969781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like __MACOSX or .DS_Store < 1262969784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To compile: < 1262969787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make < 1262969796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it a zip bomb? < 1262969797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the nice debug version, which lets you access later levels without completing previous ones: < 1262969802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make DEBUG=1 < 1262969808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: open it in a separate directory just in case, I do anyway < 1262969811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(creates dnamaze5_debug, no conflict with the other one) < 1262969814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno < 1262969816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, zips are /normally/ zipbombs, as opposed to tars < 1262969818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and saves scores in ~/.dnamaze5_debug) < 1262969825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise it looks strange in Windows < 1262969826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs unzip
< 1262969835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the mouse controls are iffy for the menus. Don't use them. < 1262969838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the controls are the arrow keys. < 1262969845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also lots of __MACOSX stuff and such there yeah < 1262969856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is "DNA Maze.app.skeleton" < 1262969862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The skeleton for the OS X .app. < 1262969865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1262969867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be generated unless you're on Darwin. < 1262969873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, non-OS X Darwin users! I hate you.) < 1262969887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice build system output, kind of < 1262969899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was totally my doing. :| :P < 1262969907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was, actually.) < 1262969914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do /I/ have permission to download that patched zip? < 1262969924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have all the bits of it already, but it'll save me the trouble of applying them < 1262969935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You required me to seek permission from you before granting any rights or whatever relating to it. < 1262969943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, give me the permission to grant you permission to download it. < 1262969943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ehird: I can't play it. There is no any key here! < 1262969951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: permission granted < 1262969966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also clicking on main screen results in blank green screen < 1262969967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1262969977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what we warned you aobut < 1262969978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I give you the permission to download that zip, and use the subset of its contents that I authored or patched in any way whatsoever, including relicensing it. < 1262969979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1262969984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thanks < 1262969989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If possible, I relinquish all copyright to the subset of its contents that I authored. < 1262969991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1262969994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1262970002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I told you not to use the mouse menu controls :) < 1262970005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262970006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262970018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: relink 3.2, please? < 1262970018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have missed that line < 1262970024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how? < 1262970029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filebin < 1262970033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262970036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gimme the link again, it's not in scrollback < 1262970038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz :P < 1262970039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/ebjwch/dnam3v2-readonly.zip < 1262970050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say "I don't have a Windows linker handy" < 1262970063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was wondering wtf was wrong with the link < 1262970073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1262970094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the .obj and .res files, if you want to have a go at relinking it yourself, I suppose < 1262970095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the directory called readonly? < 1262970102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because it doesn't contain source < 1262970111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore is no good for modifying the program < 1262970112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION extracts to C:\dnam3v2, in flagrant violation of Windows naming conventions
< 1262970146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice icon. < 1262970157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes, fullscreen attacked. < 1262970158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually changes depending on scaling < 1262970164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ooh, forgot about that < 1262970164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, a proper menu! < 1262970168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1262970176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the native resolution < 1262970178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this scaling is fugly < 1262970181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024x768 < 1262970189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what I'm on! < 1262970192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything looks scaled < 1262970194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that version had rather too much hardcoded, it doesn't work at any other resolution < 1262970198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it actually changes depending on scaling <-- what bit does? < 1262970200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need to hide the start menu < 1262970202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the icon < 1262970217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean the 16x16 one looks nothing like the 32x32 one? < 1262970220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1262970220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnam won't run anymore... /me kills some stuff < 1262970229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it runs. < 1262970239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess it just looks naturally scaled. < 1262970248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1262970250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think I know why < 1262970253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost everything there is a bitmap < 1262970263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 4-bit colour depth < 1262970265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Help button does nothing, I feel helpless < 1262970271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the aliasing's going to be bad < 1262970275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the buttons do nothing < 1262970280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just a pretty menu < 1262970285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "new game" followed by "standard game" < 1262970294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really went overboard with the keyboard shortcuts in the menus < 1262970299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a colour bonanza < 1262970299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1262970302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262970317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Colors < 1262970318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Less than High Colour < 1262970318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→High Colour or better" < 1262970322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how crap does it look like on the first setting?!?! < 1262970330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*look on < 1262970345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, an old-style file selection dialog < 1262970360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I save it in C:\dnam3v2 or C:\home\dnam3v2, I wonder < 1262970374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it has a Network... button < 1262970388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving DNA Maze save games on a Windows network share, could my day get any better < 1262970389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just uses the default Win3.1 file selection dialog < 1262970394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 what does circle with two arrows on it mean? < 1262970401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reverse direction < 1262970402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reverses < 1262970406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1262970412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Resolve my save game location dilemma! :P < 1262970420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any of your segments go next to it orthogonally or diagonally, you reverse direction on the next step < 1262970422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when one touches it? < 1262970427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mine was always alex.dna in the same dir as the directory < 1262970431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1262970436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"same dir as the directory"? < 1262970436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, crashed into the wall for me < 1262970438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1262970441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, same dir as the executable < 1262970442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was in the second level < 1262970452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can crash into it, it's a type of wall < 1262970459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going into stick-range that activates it < 1262970467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly every DNA Maze item is much the same < 1262970468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stick-range? < 1262970471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: next to it < 1262970481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1262970482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. A next to T causes them to stick to each other, game over < 1262970483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's reasonable; using \home for all stuff that's mine is unfeasible because of Windows' structure < 1262970495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the G in the ! in the second level < 1262970497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott.dna it is < 1262970503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they differ in behaviour from those A < 1262970508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they behave the same way? < 1262970513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A sticks to T, C sticks to G < 1262970518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the four letters have identical behaviour < 1262970522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, gameplay really is identical < 1262970527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sticks to? as in, stops turning? < 1262970529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from more flickering; dnam's fault or mine? < 1262970532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not quite, the control responsiveness is very slightly different < 1262970536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, kills you < 1262970544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting stuck to the walls is one of the two death conditions < 1262970547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashing into them is the other < 1262970551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 player doesn't work :'( < 1262970556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Cs in your string are in the middle < 1262970558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so G can hit an A? and it won't act as a wall? < 1262970560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hasn't since DNA Maze 2 < 1262970563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does points game. bah! < 1262970568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1262970571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what did 2 improve on 1? < 1262970571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tried that < 1262970576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all letters act as a wall < 1262970579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the save system < 1262970584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the menu navigation < 1262970587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then how does sticking work < 1262970589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was password-save before < 1262970591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did 4 go back to dos? < 1262970596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when an A goes /next to/ a T, it sticks to it < 1262970596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "next to"? < 1262970598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1262970601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because windows development was so painful < 1262970614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JAVA + YOU, < 1262970614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOWNLOAD < 1262970614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODAY!" < 1262970614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck are you on about, Oraclesun? < 1262970626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java isn't a fucking end-user product! Stop pretending it is! < 1262970631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file dnam3v2.obj < 1262970632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnam3v2.obj: 8086 relocatable (Microsoft) < 1262970647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1262970662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file dnam3v2.res < 1262970663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnam3v2.res: MSVC .res < 1262970665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more impressive < 1262970690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's so like me to set compile flags for 8086 compatibility < 1262970732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1262970746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Windows 3.0 compatibility too < 1262970752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I never actually tried to run it on Windows 3.1 < 1262970756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version of MSVC was used? < 1262970758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1262970761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By installing Java, you will be able to experience the power of Java, brought to you by Sun Microsystems, Inc." < 1262970763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was Borland C++ version 4 < 1262970768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1262970769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which output in the same format < 1262970775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1262970783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Real quote! < 1262970789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wth < 1262970816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :By installing Brainfuck, you will be able to experience the power of Brainfuck, brought to you by http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D Inc. < 1262970892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. The only end-user product in Java is the runtime environment. ... And that's only "end-user" in the slightest because Java programs don't come with it. < 1262970909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even really end-user, it's a bloody virtual machine < 1262970918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only end-user product, MAYBE, is Java Web Start. < 1262970922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even that's invisible 99% of the time. < 1262970937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... < 1262970948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Place Java icon in system tray" < 1262970948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! < 1262970950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it's "I don't fucking care, I want the program to work." < 1262970951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java Quick Starter" < 1262970952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK A GOAT! < 1262970981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The damned program could be written in C, Brainfuck, and COBOL, and I wouldn't care. Just run!" < 1262971047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is java web start? < 1262971086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It lets files offer a small .jnlp file that automatically runs in Java Web Start with one click. Java gives a security warning unless the program is signed, then downloads and runs the Java program. < 1262971097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also lets the user assign a shortcut (= stub .exe) to the program. < 1262971104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updates for the program are automatically installed from the web as they come along. < 1262971110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then sdl is end user on linux. Linux programs don't come with SDL bundled usually. Unlike windows programs that use sdl < 1262971117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was about to explain, but you did it better < 1262971124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Except that the OS comes with SDL.\ < 1262971126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr You can click a link on a web page, confirm it, and a Java program is installed and pops up and automatically updates. < 1262971135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exception: LFS) < 1262971138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, not installed by default on arch at least < 1262971140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's alright but abused. < 1262971141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows used to come with Java < 1262971153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not installed by default, but installed by the package manager. < 1262971154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frink uses it, because it's updated basically every day and updating it by hand would be a drag. < 1262971161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it makes installing Java programs actually bearable. < 1262971195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Startup item "jusched". Dude, fuck off Java. I can download updates myself without you running all the time. < 1262971220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that sort of thing is actually what I dislike most about Windows < 1262971225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows really needs a central package manager... < 1262971227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the attitude of companies who make Windows software < 1262971235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows even HAS A SCHEDULED TASK FEATURE. < 1262971237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it is nothing more than an automatic updater. < 1262971247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could just assign a task to run once a month with the same effect. < 1262971248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you expect, non-trivial windows software from Sun that actually doesn't install lots of unneeded stuff? < 1262971264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And Windows encourages it. < 1262971267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: updating could be added to add/remove type stuff really easily < 1262971276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Trivially. < 1262971278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the program registers with add/remove, it specifies a URL < 1262971285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows polls this URL every now and then with the version number it specifies < 1262971304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever Windows checks for its own updates, presumably. < 1262971305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it redirects to an .exe or .msi, say, windows stores the location of that and notes it as needing updating < 1262971313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how could it use up 100% of your CPU cycles when the program you installed wasn't running then, making the program you installed seem fast in comparison? < 1262971315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: programs could set their own intervals too < 1262971326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. Fair enough. < 1262971338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After polling all the URLs, it'd pop a tray icon notifying you of the updates. It would download them automatically if you told them to. Then you'd just select the ones you want, click go, and tada. < 1262971341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hard at all. < 1262971351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. Gah. Windows doesn't have centralised facilities for... Most things. < 1262971368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this would feel so unwindowish < 1262971369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if a URL stopped responding, it'd let the user know that Windows can't check for updates for this program automatically any more, and that they should check the manufacturer's site to upgrade the program so that it can check in future. < 1262971372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crazy even compared to the mild insanity that is "ever piece is replacable". < 1262971391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ever/every/ < 1262971395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also OS X doesn't even have add/remove. Granted, for most stuff it is all in one place < 1262971402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still there are things that are not so < 1262971409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X applications check for updates in the programs themselves < 1262971423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's an open source updater framework, Sparkle, that a lot of projects use < 1262971426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But that requires you to run them every now and then < 1262971427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the end result is pretty consistent < 1262971431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that works < 1262971433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you're not running it why does it need to be updated? < 1262971440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1262971456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X could probably do with it for the more complex programs... Though most of them have add/remove mean "cp/rm", so it's not needed for them. < 1262971496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have AppTrap installed, it removes the caches/data files/configuration files of an .app when I trash it < 1262971501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just prompts me when I move it to the trash) < 1262971509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not quite that easy unless you have a program to do it for you, unfortunately < 1262971523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, making an .app without XCode is way harder than it should be < 1262971528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. At least OS X devs don't have this silly attitude of "Everything the OS does, we can do better!" < 1262971538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1262971567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair to Windows, I am rather pleased with my Empty Recycle Bin script! :P < 1262971570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why do Windows devs write their own widgets, with a custom appearance, anyways?) < 1262971594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's easy, because Windows has never really had a consistent UI in third-party applications, and because Windows is the most popular desktop OS. < 1262971612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does apptrap know which files come from which program? < 1262971625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because the paths include the name of the app. < 1262971632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the identifier (reverse DNS). < 1262971633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, apps are that well behaved? < 1262971639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost all OS X apps are. < 1262971645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1262971651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's in an .app, it probably doesn't write ~/.foo or whatever. < 1262971671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptions are things like Inkscape, but that's just a shell application that starts X11 if it isn't already started, and runs inkscape. < 1262971692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but isn't gtk ported to native these days? < 1262971716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days, it uses Quartz. So it uses native drawing, and you can even set it to use some native widgets, but it fucks up badly. < 1262971728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK simply isn't flexible enough to be semi-native on OS X like Qt is. < 1262971751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best GTK does is "use widgets that appear like OS X. If you squint." < 1262971758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it uses native OS X widgets < 1262971760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does all its own layout < 1262971765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And doesn't support most widgets for it < 1262971770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And draws its own toolbars < 1262971771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And etc < 1262971777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clickclick "Swing Interface with standard libraries"
< 1262971780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to me, Frink! Come to me! < 1262971782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear. That's awful. < 1262971869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swing looks horrible < 1262971873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1262971877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1262971881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one looks slightly better < 1262971883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, Swing can and does use native widgets. < 1262971884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name of it < 1262971897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWT used native widgets, but is limited and deprecated. < 1262971902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swing these days is pretty darn good. < 1262971909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on Windows. < 1262971910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, swing apps look out of place on linux IME < 1262971913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even nowdays < 1262971917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux it's the font rendering that does it. < 1262971918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I use swing GTK, it's mostly correct < 1262971924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they have to use native look and feel < 1262971928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some apps set it differently and whatnot < 1262971931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it horribly screws up the antialiasing on tab labels < 1262971938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrifically, it's like it's using pro-aliasing or something < 1262971942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, they have to use native look and feel Some apps set it differently and whatnot <-- a missing not in the first one? < 1262971959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1262971973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-downloadin' we go, a-downloadin' we go < 1262971975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that didn't make sense < 1262971980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-download download download download downloadin' we go < 1262971983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes it did. < 1262971997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY FRINK < 1262972006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? 1) must be native 2) some apps set it non-native < 1262972011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1262972089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could set Frink into single-line mode by default, but eh. < 1262972112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enables Java Quick Starter. Java startup is just too slow!
< 1262972140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that didn't actually speed it up. < 1262972169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that does is make the DLLs be resident... < 1262972170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it did, it wouldn't be called quick starter, would it? < 1262972196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much of Java's startup is actual execution time. < 1262972203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can tell Java Web Start not to show the downloading thingy when starting an app < 1262972211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't you pre-JIT it and then cache that < 1262972213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory I mean < 1262972222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-silent or -Xnosplash, it seems. < 1262972224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc .NET does something like that < 1262972227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Theoretically. < 1262972232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-JIT is such a ridiculous concept < 1262972236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean "compile"? < 1262972241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I think it is called AOT < 1262972244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ahead of time" < 1262972247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mono at least < 1262972265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, java puts its stuff in %WINDIR%\system32? < 1262972267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because it might get re-compiled during execution? < 1262972269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what windows .NET calls it. remember some service called ".NET Optimiser" < 1262972269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeez Java. < 1262972271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1262972276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what pikhq said < 1262972299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might compile an optimised version during runtime as well I guess < 1262972337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: somehow I'm not surprised < 1262972418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I'll deal with the noisy startup of Java Web Start to avoid updating Frink all the time < 1262972430 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NGEN, native image generator? < 1262972442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last few updates: 2009-12-16, 2010-01-04, 2010-01-05, 2010-01-06 < 1262972452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't keep up with that sort of pace. < 1262972458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, sounds like it. But there was some service for it, doing it for system ones in the background < 1262972483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before that: 2009-10-02, 2009-10-04, 2009-10-15, 2009-10-16, 2009-11-16) < 1262972539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any sort of changelog available < 1262972549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious to how large the changes may be < 1262972553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to* < 1262972553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://futureboy.us/frinkdocs/whatsnew.html < 1262972654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " * Updated sanity checks for the year 2010. " < 1262972658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what that meant < 1262972671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably part of some test to check the maths stuff is working okay < 1262972677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't handle 2010 or above < 1262972686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is frink available on iphone? seems it is on android < 1262972689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, anyway. Ask him :P < 1262972694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No Java on iPhone, so no. < 1262972699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can use the web version. < 1262972711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some iPhone-specific CSS the web version would be fine for quick calculations. < 1262972712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which isn't coded in java? < 1262972723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's coded in Frink Server Pages. < 1262972727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. HTML with embedded Frink. < 1262972728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1262972730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Frink is executed server-side. < 1262972736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cgi? < 1262972748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, that's not CGI. < 1262972752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://futureboy.us/frinkdocs/fspdocs.html < 1262972757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I didn't say that < 1262972757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a simple Apach module. < 1262972761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant how does frink run < 1262972762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java Servlets < 1262972767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262972774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java servlets are rubbish, but eh < 1262972779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CGI in Java would be dog slow < 1262972796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I've seen worse uses of it. < 1262972796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a Java thingy that lets you hook into program exit, so that the VM keeps running, doing nothing, until you run the program again, at which point it runs main() again. < 1262972798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed, that was the conclusion I came to < 1262972814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as there aren't evil static globals it modifies or whatever, that should avoid JVM overhead. < 1262972819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best for graphical programs, probably. < 1262972861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like setting up Frink Server Pages isn't too difficult. < 1262972861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by the way, what would calling main() from an atexit() callback do in C... < 1262972861 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude that frink thing is cool < 1262972868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering what sort of hell that would cause < 1262972870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause* < 1262972880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open its web.xml, change fsp-root, drop the .war in your Java Servlet directory, tada. < 1262972881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it is! < 1262972887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can even do regexps, graphics, ... < 1262972897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TIAS < 1262972917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure I dare. I think it is very very likely undefined behaviour < 1262972920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The following complete FSP page demonstrates rendering a black circle. Perhaps you can come up with something more clever." < 1262972923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TIAS! < 1262973030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay it seems calling exit() inside atexit() is forbidden at least < 1262973031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1262973032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UD < 1262973039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what gcc does with -O0 < 1262973045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX.1-2001 says that the result of calling exit(3) more than once (i.e., calling exit(3) within a function registered using atexit(3)) is undefined." < 1262973050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm reading man page first < 1262973055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boooooooooring < 1262973081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, Frink has some algebraic solving stuff since 2009-10-04. < 1262973092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also longjmp in atexit seems forbidden < 1262973101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION `use solvingTransformations.frink`
< 1262973159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the loooooooong wait begins as it seemingly downloads all the libraries < 1262973166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it does that the first time you use a library < 1262973207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's undefined behavior. < 1262973312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's only undefined if you longjmp to terminate the function in atexit. < 1262973335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longjmp'ing *to* the function is perfectly fine. < 1262973342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil yet impossible exploit idea: < 1262973345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evil yet < 1262973349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah right < 1262973366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 puts an instruction in the program's code that immediately exits (or is that just the OOM killer?) < 1262973375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, modify the processor's microcode so that this instruction is actually a nop < 1262973380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila! Immortal program. < 1262973401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, all other programs are immortal too, but... < 1262973425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it actually do it that way? < 1262973430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 I mean < 1262973431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OOM killer does. < 1262973434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe kill -9 doesn't. < 1262973452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would the OOM killer do that. Surely there are easier ways to do it < 1262973455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 doesn't. < 1262973459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really doubt either one of the killers bother to modify code; care to look up some references? < 1262973471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel just deletes the process. < 1262973484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you quoted the code that did that. < 1262973494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it sets the process to have, like, infinite priority < 1262973503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I seem to recall that's so it executes its suicide immediately < 1262973529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://futureboy.us/fsp/solve.fsp ;; The space background, it is verily 90s. < 1262973530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OOM killer just sends SIGKILL. < 1262973571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. There was *something* curious there, related to the scheduling; I do remember peeking at the code. < 1262973571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. Am I hallucinating? Surely not. < 1262973707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it makes much more sense for the kernel to just free the memory pages and then delete the process structure < 1262973712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1262973713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1262973717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't just do that. < 1262973745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and if it was for SMP, then modifying the code ahead of the current position is unreliable due to cache. < 1262973748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid thing about Java: All objects are mutexes. < 1262973752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All objects *waste memory* on being mutexes. < 1262973767 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically an open source version of mathematica? < 1262973786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it's more of a calculator and a data cruncher than a symbolic environment < 1262973799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, I don't think Mathematica does its values-have-units-built-in thing < 1262973805 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1262973810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't really have _that_ strong algebraic/etc capabilities < 1262973822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, mathematica doesn't really do web scraping/regexps/etc < 1262973829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, um, frink's not open source < 1262973831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it is free) < 1262973834 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262973841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *does* send sigkill, though it does that too a bit specially; normally you can't send a sigkill to a process with CAP_SYS_RAW_IO (for safety); the OOM killer goes around those restrictions. After making sure that signal is pending, it also does that priority trick. Though it probably won't actually *execute* the task, more like it's just done so that it is scheduled early enough. < 1262973848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * We give our sacrificial lamb high priority and access to < 1262973849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * all the memory it needs. That way it should be able to < 1262973849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * exit() and clear out its resources quickly... < 1262973849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1262973849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p->rt.time_slice = HZ; < 1262973849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set_tsk_thread_flag(p, TIF_MEMDIE); < 1262973857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, "exit() and clear out ..." < 1262973864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could potentially exit I guess? < 1262973882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does force_sig(SIGKILL, p); -- I don't think it's possible the process can do anything after that point. < 1262973896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not completely sure, and finding that out from the sources is too much work. < 1262973898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is "exit() and clear out its resources" referring to < 1262973937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be referring to the clearing-out of resources that the kernel does, just in a bit misleading manner. < 1262973949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go and find out if interested enough; have to be away now for a while. < 1262974009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exit() in the kernel. < 1262974019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262974026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which only gets done when the process is scheduled to run. < 1262974105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: frink is actually symbolic at its core though < 1262974116 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"zzz" < 1262974130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can add symbolic transformations / go into symbolic mode (basically doesn't warn about undefined variables and doesn't barf because of them when sometimes it would) < 1262974886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this? Java leaks memory? No! < 1262974903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor[big] in Frink then everything after is sloow and the UI just sort of gives up. < 1262974905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damn you, Sun. < 1262975500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you expect Sun to write memory-efficient code? < 1262975538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying because the JVM is one of the most advanced virtual machines in existence: JIT, advanced generational garbage collector, ... < 1262975548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fuck, it sucks in practice; especially for GUI applications. < 1262975601 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Java, all objects are mutexes and condition variables. :-) < 1262975609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Condition variables? < 1262975609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of that's the implementation, part of that's just, well... Java being Java. < 1262975627 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wait(), notify() and notifyAll(). < 1262975636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is an excellent virtual machine with a crappy GUI toolkit and a decidedly mediocre language. < 1262975651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sums it up. < 1262975667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Corman Lisp
< 1262975670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got what plants crave! < 1262975676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At this point, Ilari goes on about plant nutrition.) < 1262975687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is your destiny. < 1262975837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... Plants don't need that much, pretty much only some pretty simple ions (mainly N, P and K plus small amounts of lots of other elemential ions), plus water and light. :-> < 1262975857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt This... Is impressive. < 1262975858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the karmic universal balance is aligned once more! < 1262975876 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq why?? < 1262975885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: 166 bytes. < 1262975887 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq it looks very very well written < 1262975920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same guy who wrote the shortest Linux ELF file. < 1262975930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1262975951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His assembly stuff is rather impressive. And a fun read. < 1262975970 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.6 ELF checking is more strict than Linux 2.4 ELF checking (which AFAIK increases the minimum size). < 1262976056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The program uses the technique of loading to absolute address zero, which permits a number of tricks that further reduce code size. I have not used this technique myself, because sadly some versions of Linux do not permit executables to load to address zero." < 1262976074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program he's talking about there is the only one I've not been able to run on 2.6. < 1262976082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(58 byte "Hello, world!") < 1262976106 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux still contains a.out support. And a.out binaries can have load base of either 0 or 4096. < 1262976137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, he's writing ELF files. < 1262976196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But fuck, it sucks in practice; especially for GUI applications. <-- go improve it. It's open source. < 1262976210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, like Oracle are gonna accept patches. < 1262976225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel absolutely no obligation to contribute to a corporate product that is the source of much profit. < 1262976228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know you were probably joking.) < 1262976241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was about to whoosh you there < 1262976354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Java lacks method pointers (reflection is bit too verbose to be a replacement). < 1262976675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: not any more < 1262976681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... asmutils has a 532 byte httpd. That's impressive. < 1262976682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next version has method pointers, apparently < 1262976682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: new Function3() {{ public string call(int x, string y) { return obj.someMethod(x, y); } }} < 1262976682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where public class Function3 { public R call(T x, S y); } < 1262976682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, obj has to be declared final. What's that? You wanted something not verbose? Oh. < 1262976696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could use m4 for older versions to emulate it I guess XD < 1262976748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, you could just do `MethodPtr3 = MethodPtr.for(obj, "ultraPoop");` or whatever. Shouldn't be too hard to make. < 1262976759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there'd always be an upper bound on the argument count. < 1262976766 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to recently write Java code that used Thread.stop() (its deprecated, look up why). < 1262976768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax for a method pointer is to change the . to # < 1262976775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty nonverbose < 1262976780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Thread#stop < 1262976841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Java is mediocre rather than actively terrible. < 1262976918 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good side is that with Java, one can't do anything too crazy. < 1262976933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can with reflection. < 1262976946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't buy into that, anyway; crazy stuff isn't the only type of bad code. < 1262976965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good side is that with Java, you don't have to deal with pointers or memory allocation. < 1262976976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are easy to mess up badly, rather than deliberate tricks. < 1262977038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good side with Java is that it is merely a bit too complex and a bit too verbose. Rather than actively being painful to use. < 1262977125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, ...nothing at all has broken in my minimalist Windows XP. < 1262977129 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except by writing bytecode and then loading it, but not many coders have any idea about how to do that. < 1262977132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows really does have an awful lot of useless crap in it. < 1262977142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: If you do that you can modify finals. < 1262977148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though the compiler unsafely optimises away access to them. < 1262977154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Violate generic safety... < 1262977155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Absolutely nothing? < 1262977157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1262977164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steal your mother's life savings... < 1262977167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill your mother... < 1262977176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill the entire population of Mars... < 1262977179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Windows XP is actually a 100-some-meg OS with a lot of needless bloat. < 1262977182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" " " " " Earth... < 1262977190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 1 gig OS, actually. But a 100 meg install CD. < 1262977194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1262977196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1262977200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 1 gig figure included my 700 meg pagefile. < 1262977201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1262977207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1262977221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about bloat < 1262977223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 megs is actually reasonable for a fairly barebones OS. < 1262977223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\WINDOWS is 359 megs < 1262977225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as Windows. < 1262977228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(363 megs on disk) < 1262977231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pagefile = swapfile :P < 1262977236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1262977246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, I didn't strip it down to the hueg 1 gig. < 1262977254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stripped Windows down to ~360 megs. < 1262977265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus the default \Program Files and user account stuff, but that's barely anything. < 1262977272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is about what a similarly able Linux distro would be at... < 1262977283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is 2 gigs :P < 1262977291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said similarly able. < 1262977298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is bloat-tastic. ;) < 1262977358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That implies that Ubuntu is ~5.7x more able than my minimalist Windows XP :P < 1262977381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get an antivirus on this thing. < 1262977430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MSAV? < 1262977439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it should be a really really old DOS antivirus < 1262977448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prevents .exe files being modified by storing checksums < 1262977451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that would protect against Windows viruses. < 1262977455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checking against the sum whenever you try to run one < 1262977474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost perfect at antivirusing; issue is, it doesn't protect against other forms of malware, like worms < 1262977494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when viruses were actually viruses... < 1262977513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how easy it is to rename a user account directory in windows? < 1262977516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sick of being Owner < 1262977532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create a new account, copy the files should almost certainly be safe < 1262977534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay Corman Lisp! < 1262977536 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... After I reboot this computer (someday) I'll probably try to get Protocol 41 working... :-) < 1262977601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reboot this computer (someday)" < 1262977609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your system must be pretty stable. < 1262977665 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: It lacks UPS. :-/ < 1262977692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you do your work on a ramdisk because your computer never crrashes? :-) < 1262977695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crashes < 1262977737 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No (except for having lots of stuff open, with few text files storing what's open). < 1262977757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no memory for RAM disk. < 1262977769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make ramvi < 1262977773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a vi clone without saving! < 1262977910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs WinHugs for the nostalgia
< 1262977954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I've ever used it, but... < 1262978053 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1262978084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! And I was just installing WinHugs. < 1262978095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1262978098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, because you use Windows. And Hugs. And are consequently scientifically classed as a dinosaur. < 1262978104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore this is relevant to you. < 1262978129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tears ehird into pieces with his giant jaws
< 1262978139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yummy* < 1262978139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you are a wimpy dinosaur with no powers. < 1262978140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1262978141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POWERS < 1262978144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1262978145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAAAAHH < 1262978147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATSOEVER < 1262978152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we love you :< < 1262978165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you'll tell me i'm purple < 1262978192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to wait until you were older to tell you that. < 1262978197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i've ever actually _watched_ barney, mind you, i've just heard rumors) < 1262978212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for videoing you for all those years WITHOUT YOU KNOWING < 1262978223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'll never get the money < 1262978226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never! NEVER! < 1262978227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< >_> < 1262978277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see how fun it will be to video a broke dinosaur < 1262978332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped taping you when you turned into a sour bastard that nobody likes. < 1262978336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, did I say that out aloud? < 1262978359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heap size: 7 Mb" < 1262978362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT SEEMS REASONABLE WINHUGS < 1262978372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 megs, almost enough for a haskell hello world < 1262978582 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official short name for Protocol 41: IPv6. And it appears in IPv6 address space as 2002/16. < 1262978750 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next 32 bits of address determine the IPv4 the address to send the packets to. < 1262978911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those addresses are /48's, 65536 networks of up to 16Ei hosts. :-) < 1262979019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really cool thing about Frink graphics: Resizing the graphics window rerenders the whole thing. So text gets re-rendered, etc. < 1262979024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's no "scaling". < 1262979377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What's the memory usage on that minimal XP install look like? < 1262979391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With or without programs running? < 1262979399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably without. < 1262979400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh... Sure. < 1262979482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical memory in "K" < 1262979491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1262979499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll chop off the last three digits < 1262979502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get approx. megs < 1262979504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 523 < 1262979506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avail 404 < 1262979507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache 338 < 1262979513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1262979522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 119 megs used < 1262979529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is commit charge, I wonder? < 1262979552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 3 megs of that is the virtualbox service, so that obviously doesn't count :-P < 1262979613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it runs IE, VirtualBox additions, Opera, Java, Frink, Corman Lisp and WinHugs (and thus Hugs) so far. < 1262979704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClearType works if you're into that. < 1262979733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It detects whether or not you are into that and does not work if you are not.) < 1262979735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(True fact.) < 1262979827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those pesky true facts, always being uppity against the false ones < 1262979843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ders criminasion. < 1262979880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what's the easiest way to get Servlets serving locally on Windows to play with Frink Server Pages.
< 1262979894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomcat? Isn't that meant to be ridiculously complicated? GlassFish? < 1262979946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomcat is Apache in Java. < 1262979951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ugh) < 1262979956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not really. < 1262979963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an HTTP server + Servlet container + JSP thingy. < 1262979977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to be an Apache project, and thus inherit the crazy. < 1262979983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1262979991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if anyone wants a Compose key under Windows: http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/b/2009/updates/ < 1262980044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually converts the X11 Compose key file format to an AutoHotkey_L script. < 1262980065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Err. 2002::/16 is the prefix for 6to4 addresses, true; but "protocol 41" -- directly putting IPv6 packets inside IPv4 packets with protocol number set to 41 -- is used also by all the other tunnel brokers, too, with addresses allocated in other routable blocks. < 1262980162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tjws.sourceforge.net/ < 1262980162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"European quality software made in USA" < 1262980162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1262980171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Germans: famous for good cars and software! < 1262980191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, jetty. Jetty rings a bell. < 1262980411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Jetty or TJWS it is. < 1262980503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: JBoss. Not just the crazy of Tomcat; it is also Enterprise. < 1262980513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN HARDLY WAIT < 1262980551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Haskell implementation in Java would be a fun engineering problem. Yes, I know of the outdated GHC backend, but that's so boring. < 1262980581 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use java to implement a lazy language < 1262980590 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to prove a point about TCO with it, but tehy did not listen < 1262980601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trampolines yo < 1262980614 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1262980633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a Haskell, Java, Haskell callstack difficult though. < 1262980646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1262980647 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1262980648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, actually. < 1262980658 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't consider that, but it's certainly a tricky problem < 1262980663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1262980674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java code, when it wants to use e.g. a Haskell callback, uses the trampoline mechanism itself < 1262980687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by starting a new trampoline < 1262980689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get: < 1262980697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trampoline, Haskell, Java, Trampoline, Haskell < 1262980705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you nest this enough the stack will blow < 1262980713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be very difficult to write code gnarly enough to make THAT happen < 1262980715 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can mabye use a simple tramp < 1262980718 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single* < 1262980728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, but then you have to split the java method in two < 1262980731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to just doing < 1262980736 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1262980738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :callHaskell(someHaskellFunc, someJavaArgs) < 1262980747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the stack overflow problem is very minor, I'd go for convenience < 1262980770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: especially as you can wrap callHaskell() in a java class or whatever, so java APIs that aren't yours can call into haskell code < 1262980772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without knowing) < 1262980795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one major issue is designing the embedding of java into haskell though, I tried that once for a laugh and it was quite a pain < 1262980807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you want static safety and don't want to add actual OOP features to haskell) < 1262980812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :involves a _lot_ of typeclasses < 1262981375 0 :somebody_!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1262981385 0 :somebody_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262981400 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1262981417 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1262981480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, apparently TJWS is based on thttpd. < 1262981503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ,wait. < 1262981505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*No, wait. < 1262981510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Acme.Serve. < 1262981518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other acme.com webserver; this one's Java) < 1262982032 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-5.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262982088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those who haven't seen it yet: http://dd-sh.intercal.org.uk/web-server/ < 1262982454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, a .bat cgi < 1262982459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds like the kind of thing you'd do < 1262982484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, it is by the maintainer of CLC-INTERCAL < 1262982491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1262982494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a .bat cgi elsewhere < 1262982498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1262982511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not quite that crazy, .bat is rubbish at parsing < 1262982541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it was just a demonstration, and windows doesn't really have any alternatives < 1262982547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it did was dir /b < 1262982552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus surrounding html/headers < 1262982733 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262982818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33 [localhost] -!- #haskell-blah: No such channel < 1262982832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell is irssi trying to send messages to localhost for that channel? < 1262982835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, localhost? using a bouncer? < 1262982858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I just have bitlbee on localhost. < 1262982871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascism: Awesome, or AWESOME? < 1262982882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: AWESOME!!!!!! < 1262982894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1262982902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON < 1262982905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you will die. < 1262982912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1262983084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we will sing the fascism song! < 1262983087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding, dong, AnMaster's dead < 1262983092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We stabbed the bastard in the head < 1262983097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding, dong, freedom is dead < 1262983105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We raped that bastard till it... was... um... dead? < 1262983107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas no, I fooled you there < 1262983111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FASCISM < 1262983111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for everything except rhyming < 1262983126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dopplerganger(!) < 1262983134 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schism < 1262983135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascism, rhymes with ass-ism < 1262983137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a word. < 1262983143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves in a hurry
< 1262983145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can say "penis". < 1262983147 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prison < 1262983152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to say "dopplerganger". < 1262983192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dopplerganger would be someone moving away at nearly the speed of light, right < 1262983235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems localhost is online at, < 1262983236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*atm < 1262983241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1262983249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I just did a /whois < 1262983255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberate misinterpretation ftw! < 1262983262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aisMaster < 1262983555 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aisMaster is the bastard child of AnMaster and ais523 < 1262983567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you got the joke < 1262983574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: wouldn't happen, we're both the same gender < 1262983581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ass babies < 1262983584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is set in the future < 1262983588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's something that's the opposite of a whoosh but still a similar level of stupidity? < 1262983589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1262983589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where anything is possible < 1262983604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Thanks, Captain Obvious!" < 1262983610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, maybe < 1262983616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever it is, I apply it to Augur < 1262983620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*augur < 1262983624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I say < 1262983629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ais523: *augur < 1262983640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1262983641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1262983641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1262983643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1262983646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly, that was a typo somehow < 1262983652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kline augur < 1262983656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain Obvious, he tells obvious things < 1262983659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watsa kline < 1262983689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kline bottle < 1262983709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8D < 1262983716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kaluza-/kline theory < 1262983735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eine /kline nachtmusik < 1262984008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/KLINE SOUDNS SORT OF LIKE SOME WORDS GUYS < 1262984010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SOUNDS < 1262984014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a silent / < 1262984232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean silent? it is clearly a click sound borrowed from !Xóõ < 1262984279 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-93-84.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1262984456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LWJS author can't spell properly but jetty is huge if you go for 6 and sparse if you go for 7 < 1262984456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1262984489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lwjs works as a windows service though if you set it up yourself, so does jetty 6 but it's just way too big < 1262984492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jetty 7 doesn't though < 1262984781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tjws < 1262984873 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1262984875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized < 1262984883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm gay" < 1262984889 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 simple words, I am gay < 1262984889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that every /kline we did < 1262984898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the exact same german word < 1262984912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not for ein kleine nachtmusik actually < 1262984913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1262984913 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262984915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even klein bottle...? < 1262984929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klein bottles are named after a dude < 1262984932 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same last name < 1262985112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how gross < 1262985116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1262985163 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts my klein bottle in oerjans klein bottle
< 1262985214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how one puts anything into a klein bottle
< 1262985229 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through the open end, duh < 1262985242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not inside. < 1262985247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1262985251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a zero-volume manifold! < 1262985257 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1262985282 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/ < 1262985283 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1262985293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah has one of those. < 1262985316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet he does < 1262985333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also has one of these: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Thor2.jpg < 1262985334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was _not_ a euphemism. < 1262985362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it wasnt < 1262985508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/klein_bottle_hats.htm < 1262985515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEAR A KLEIN BOTTLE HAT < 1262985518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK LIKE A DORK < 1262985518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8D < 1262985593 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliens < 1262985612 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/images/RedYellowWhiteHatScarf_Zoe_.jpg go back to the future you fucking alien < 1262985622 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that better be flexible or there will be injuries < 1262985644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: thats not an alien, thats a girl < 1262985652 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh wow ambiguous remark) < 1262985666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: theyre really flexible < 1262985691 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean < 1262985703 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/images/giantKleinbotandCliff2.jpg < 1262985725 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go back to the fourth dimension!! < 1262985730 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and take your contraption with you < 1262985752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet ehird could fit into that klein bottle < 1262985763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people know that it's a pun in German BTW? < 1262985773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: probably not. < 1262985773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1262985783 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh cmon, yo're tiny! < 1262985784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that guy is really freakishly tall < 1262985793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say 7ft < 1262985799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm even 8 < 1262985810 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the who thing, but Flache = surface (i.e. manifold), Flasche = bottle < 1262985825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1262985830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1262985861 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/calibrated_klein_bottles.htm < 1262985862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1262985885 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kleinsche Fläche < 1262985891 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedoa < 1262985896 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wikipedia < 1262985903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki-Pedo! Aah! < 1262985908 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are right next to each other! < 1262985919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kids are right next to each other! < 1262985931 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ callibrations < 1262986474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1262986482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you stop a windows server that's hogging a port if it isn't installed? < 1262986492 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1262986496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from killing svchost processes at random until you find it < 1262986498 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it be doing that? < 1262986511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using Process Explorer? < 1262986515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, i started a service listening on port foo and now i want to stop it. < 1262986518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I guess I should download it < 1262986551 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, but PE might have a thingy somewhere that lets you find which process is hogging a port... < 1262986554 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo... < 1262986567 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a command I overheard recently that might help < 1262986604 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a knowlege roll
< 1262986633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process explorer — most stats i've ever seen on one screen in my life < 1262986662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised this still runs what with all the stuff i stripped out :) < 1262986668 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1262986669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a netstat.exe from Windows, but I have no clue whether it can tell processes at all. < 1262986683 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just maybe "netstat" could help < 1262986692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1262986692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-o : Displays active TCP connections and includes the process ID (PID) for each connection. You can find the application based on the PID on the Processes tab in Windows Task Manager. This parameter can be combined with -a, -n, and -p." < 1262986698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... apparently this server *isn't* running. Like, at all. < 1262986700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claims http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490947.aspx < 1262986726 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves his +3 "random shit I read somewhere" modifier
< 1262986733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you probably need -a too to get listening ports.) < 1262986748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr no grep on windows < 1262986752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should install powershell < 1262986756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's all hip and whatnot < 1262986763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh < 1262986764 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hip to be square < 1262986769 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hip replacement < 1262986781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "find", though. < 1262986791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much grep. < 1262986794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1262986797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without regular expressions. < 1262986800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell it's not running :) < 1262986849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo | find "X" only seems to display the last instance of X < 1262986941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISTENING is what i'm looking for right, not TIME_WAIT < 1262986994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, it should display all lines. But, well, who can say; I've never felt Windows was too pipeline-friendly. < 1262987027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION closes Opera to make this easier
< 1262987055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, some are listening on *:*. < 1262987063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but they're all UDP. < 1262987072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are epmap, microsoft-ds, netbios-ssn, and two Opera things. < 1262987074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion. < 1262987082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an HTTP server that doesn't exist, and is accessing files that don't exist. < 1262987090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now go insane. < 1262987094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe YOU don't exist! < 1262987102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a rather reasonable explanation. < 1262987113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's gone now. < 1262987117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope it wasn't just Opera caching it. < 1262987127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I pressed shift+refresh and control+refresh, so. < 1262987542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, this is annoying. < 1262987628 0 :MigoMipo!n=migomipo@84-217-9-241.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262987675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I give up on TJWS. < 1262987702 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man Australia's TZs are fucked up. They have +8, +8:45, +9:30, +10, plus some others on islands < 1262987711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know any non-shitty HTTP servers/Java servlet containers that can be used as a Windows service? Ha, no, only kidding, no such thing. Man, I kinda wish Frink Server Pages *were* CGIs at this point... < 1262987741 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, they have an island in +10:30 which, get this, observer 2 hours of DST! < 1262987746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1262987762 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1262987764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1262987770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be a type < 1262987781 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it observes minus 10 hours of DST < 1262987788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does two hours of DST even make sense? < 1262987792 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets DST *backwards* < 1262987795 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yesh < 1262987804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that two physical hours of DST happening < 1262987804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typo < 1262987807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two clock hours < 1262987812 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh, what? < 1262987820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two clock hours, the clock would go forward on the first hour, another hour would pass, and it'd go back < 1262987823 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it changes the offset fomr UTC by 2 hours < 1262987825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd only be one real hour of DST < 1262987828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: oh < 1262987837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it meant, it has DST for two hours of the year :-) < 1262987936 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I got it wrong < 1262987975 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP means it shifts by only 0:30 for DST, rather shifting *to* 0:30 < 1262988005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, that would be funny < 1262988027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time to set the clocks forward." "Aww man, and I thought I was done with menial labour for the day." < 1262988081 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antarctica is a bit random. They have -4, -3, and +12 < 1262988107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a floating island that physically moves between australia and europe every six months
< 1262988166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall antarctic bases go by the zones of their supply stations < 1262988194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least one base < 1262988206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs EmacsW32
< 1262988207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Eh, I give up on TJWS. <-- TJWS? < 1262988209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like they can base it off of the sun. < 1262988214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny Java Web Server. < 1262988217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1262988218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Winstone instead, now. < 1262988224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Frink Server Pages! < 1262988261 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be so much easier if everyone just used UTC < 1262988278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1262988292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can say "I was up until 5am" and this reflects the same conscious experience to all of humanity < 1262988294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mess up local time < 1262988301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what ehird said < 1262988316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more important than being easy for machines and bureaucrats :-) < 1262988319 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe < 1262988326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it should be based on the sun < 1262988333 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *was* thinking that if they can get used to summer in January and Winder in July, they can get used to sun at 12:00 and night at 00:00 < 1262988343 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-19.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262988344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that when the sun was in it's highest point locally, then it was 12:00 < 1262988357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that's probably variable < 1262988359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this would mean that near the poles they would just have one date half of the year < 1262988374 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that China manages ok with one huge timezone < 1262988376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since sun doesn't rise at all) < 1262988400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yeah it will vary a bit there, but not as it varies between Australia and Europe say < 1262988412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: nah, it's so awful all the western provinces want to secede < 1262988462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, EmacsW32 is downloading inexplicably slowly. < 1262988629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: c-intercal W: Dependency included and not needed ('gcc') < 1262988642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL depends on a cc. < 1262988653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian mark it as gcc | c-compiler, I think < 1262988678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, runtime dep < 1262988690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, namcap sometimes give false positives on that < 1262988699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is indeed a runtime deop < 1262988701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dep < 1262988702 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1262988708 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1262988711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a compile-time dep too, given that it's written in C < 1262988714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, after all it looks at ldd iirc < 1262988714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklofok < 1262988717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1262988725 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decided to come and see the chaos. < 1262988733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but that would be a builddep < 1262988759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a builddep /and/ a runtime dep < 1262988762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no chaos here! < 1262988811 0 :Aszstal!n=asztal@host86-163-46-39.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262988861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry up emacsw32 download god damn < 1262988865 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1262988902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I suppose it's only an optional runtime dep, since you can compile to C without it, or? < 1262988991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm good point < 1262988999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ridiculous. < 1262989001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, won't fix it this evening, probably tomorrow < 1262989007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that standard near everything is an optional dependency. < 1262989025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, most things won't start up if you don't have the appropriate libs. < 1262989026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its absence makes "prog file", the standard usage, fail with a scary error message, it's required. < 1262989239 0 :Azsztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-208.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262989249 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1262989299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with ehird here < 1262989308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what Deewiant said is in the spirit of arch linux < 1262989645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet time! It's now @977! < 1262989671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sounds about right < 1262989680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it wrong that I can convert in and out of decimal time in my head? < 1262989687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use it on my desktop, when I had one < 1262989702 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262989904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like the hilarious unit, ".beat". < 1262989959 0 :Aszstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1262989990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ,beat? < 1262990036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The period of time from @n to @n+1 has a length of one .beat. < 1262990059 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1262990072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by the same token < 1262990077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc should not depend on as < 1262990083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can use -S without it < 1262990356 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what algo? < 1262990357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1262990372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1262990376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends On : binutils>=2.20 mpfr>=2.4.1 cloog-ppl>=0.15.3 < 1262990376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing the whole point of dependencies < 1262990377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1262990383 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what conscious processes that is < 1262990401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does however do that < 1262990403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Here in Gentoo-land, cc depends on as. < 1262990405 0 :Azsztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262990410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same on arch actually < 1262990410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: 15 minutes is approximately 10 millidays < 1262990411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can't build cc without as. < 1262990418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build dependency < 1262990425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The opposite is also true. < 1262990431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, gentoo separates build/runtime deps iirc? < 1262990437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1262990441 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, then sounds simple < 1262990459 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been trying to work on my mental calculation skills, but obviously i'm starting a bit late < 1262990461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're also part of system. < 1262990468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything has an implicit runtime dependency on system... < 1262990487 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-149.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262990502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! An area of knowledge in which oklofok does not hopelessly exceed me! < 1262990515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead he merely trounces on my face. < 1262990523 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? don't you like... fail at addition? :P < 1262990535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1262990539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 2 = 7 < 1262990543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 3 = 5 < 1262990546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, i recall a few instances like that < 1262990579 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, i haven't really found a good source for what conscious techniques are used, usually < 1262990599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only at room temperature < 1262990600 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google mostly gives "savant can do lotsa shit, says he sees numbers as pix" < 1262990607 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. < 1262990614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above that 2+2 can reach up to 8 or perhaps even 9 < 1262990634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well you'd refuse to use decimal based heuristics wouldn't you :) < 1262990685 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean calculating approximations? < 1262990695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean nothing < 1262990702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only meaning < 1262990705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is within yourself < 1262990711 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i want the calculations to be correct, otherwise i'd just use smaller numbers < 1262990754 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there i knew a good resource on this, but no one seems to do it without a gift < 1262990793 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1262990825 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i find it weird how little people care about anything < 1262990859 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says he after skipping all the conversation here after seeing the word dep. < 1262990889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system < 1262990938 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i suck at googling < 1262990943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks interesting < 1262990944 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-46-5.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262990954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is quickly losing patience with gnumacs
< 1262990957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i haven't already developed a system < 1262990959 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst router ever < 1262990960 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1262990973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just install xemacs and deal with the ugly < 1262990982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i knew about that because i had a book about it when i grew up (probably still is somewhere) < 1262991009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that that guy was jovial enough in a concentration camp to come up with fun mental arithmetic stuff < 1262991009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually recall learning much of it, though... < 1262991018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you possibly be _bored_ in such a situation < 1262991063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's... the normal multiplication algo < 1262991137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, usually you calculate the stuff in a different order < 1262991154 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i've just already optimized that far < 1262991203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster: Do you know how to disable the automatic insertion of a final newline by Emacs? < 1262991220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's a config option for it somewher < 1262991223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*somewhere < 1262991227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hooked according to the mode < 1262991241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try searching custom for "newline" < 1262991321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gnumacs, worst router ever." < 1262991335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough people use \foo without DRIVE: < 1262991342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why type C: if you don't need to? < 1262991461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because on Windows it's hard to guarantee what the current drive its < 1262991463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1262991485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, and fuck GNUmacs < 1262991491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XEmacs C-x C-f: ~\ < 1262991498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNUmacs C-x C-f: c:\home/ < 1262991507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path separator fail, home directory to ~ fail < 1262991732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to switch to XEmacs. < 1262991747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange thing about (X)Emacs tabs: they only show files with the same major mode by default. < 1262991763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, who thought of that? < 1262991799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and XEmacs has a saner dotfile mechanism too... ~/.emacs → ~/.xemacs/init.el, ~/.emacs + custom cruft → ~/.xemacs/custom.el < 1262991871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is perfectly valid in GNU Emacs too. If you consider that part of the sanity, and not just the init.el + custom.el splittery. < 1262991884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: AnMaster: Do you know how to disable the automatic insertion of a final newline by Emacs? <-- iirc it defaults to off? < 1262991896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(setq require-final-newline 'query) < 1262991898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that < 1262991902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my .emacs < 1262991907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it might help < 1262991908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, moving-past-bottom-of-file produces a newline, which I dislike. < 1262991918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Windows, I'm gonna use CR+LF and no ending newline, dammit :-) < 1262991932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, yes, but it's default in XEmacs. < 1262992008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest WinXP annoyance: explorer crashing resets Quick Launch order and size. < 1262992147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "default", I guess you mean the fact that it's looked for first, before ~/.emacs? (Well, and I guess GNU Emacs customize-buffer-save or something might generate ~/.emacs "by default" if it's not there.) < 1262992195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the simple fact that there's no string anywhere using ~/.xemacs as a file and everything saves to the appropriate ~/.xemacs thingy. < 1262992202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ~/.emacs is loaded for backwards-compatibility purposes. < 1262992206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a culture thing, anyway. < 1262992233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although XEmacs' culture can be accurately described as "stale". < 1262992241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, jwz still uses it, so it's not dead yet. < 1262992256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stale, with a whiff of lemon. < 1262992258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Install XEmacs 21.5.29 and all packages
< 1262992259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: spam spam wonderful spam (http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/index.php) < 1262992261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I have 144 megs of disk space. < 1262992270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more than a third of my Windows installation size, but SURE < 1262992290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deleted < 1262992308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing quite like it for incurring a ban < 1262992310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION high fives ais523
< 1262992317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone do the next line! < 1262992414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, Windows *is* an OS... < 1262992418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1262992419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs. < 1262992455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: XEmacs doesn't do font-lock-mode by default. < 1262992463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it does, it's actually displayed in the mode line. < 1262992464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1262992754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XEmacs todo: Disable splash screen. Make modeline prettier. Maybe fix screwy tabs. < 1262992949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just say that XEmacs' apropos is niiiiiiiice? < 1262993052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1262993060 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1262993081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying thing about Chrome: Killing it is a lottery. There are a million chrome.exe's to kill < 1262993103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kill the parent chrome.exe < 1262993132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one with the lowest pid does not seem to be the parent < 1262993147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creamycentre> Sgeo: end process tree < 1262993163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use process explorer or something to find the parent < 1262993263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that chrome had a built-in process-managing thing? < 1262993283 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that was one of its features advertised way back < 1262993316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1262994851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, process mangling. < 1262994985 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1262995084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You like Emacs, so let me just rant about it to you: I HATE THE CRAP YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET MULTIPLE MAJOR MODES TO WORK >_< < 1262995147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I AGREE THAT THAT IS RETARDED. < 1262995170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want to do is define a mode for editing Frink Server Pages... sheesh. < 1262995192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML mode, between <% and %> Frink mode. Why, XEmacs, are you being so hateful?