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00:24:08 <coppro> conway's life is awesom
00:24:14 <coppro> Are there any life-based languages?
00:27:00 <oerjan> well REDGREEN has a life subset
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00:29:17 <coppro> is there a graphical version of REDGREEN somewhere?
00:29:40 <oerjan> no idea. and cpressey just left.
00:30:43 <oerjan> i guess you'd want a graphical version of ALPACA, since that's what it's written in
00:37:20 <coppro> you could have a simple text-to-image replacement on top of the ALPACA layer
00:39:04 <coppro> does a nice generic one of those exist?
00:45:04 <coppro> that sounds like a reasonable project
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02:33:26 <Sgeo__> *sigh* If I'm a superstar in a 3xx level class, that reflects badly on the school rather than well on me?
02:35:10 <Gregor> Nothing ever reflects well on you. :P
02:35:55 <Sgeo__> Seriously, one of these guys is a professional programmer, and apparently he's struggling
02:36:06 <Sgeo__> I think that that reflects poorly on the teacher
02:36:45 <coppro> Sgeo__: What's the class about?
02:37:03 <Sgeo__> Data Structures, but currently we're just doing a Fraction calculator
02:37:34 <Sgeo__> A lot of the students are complaining about a previous teacher from a 2xx level course
02:37:42 <Sgeo__> I had the same teacher and agree with those complaints, really
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02:52:02 <pikhq> ... Professional programmer. Struggling with data structures.
02:52:20 <pikhq> ... Data structures, a 3xx level class?
02:53:10 <coppro> Sgeo__: what's complaining about a previous teacher got to do with it?>
02:53:31 <Sgeo__> coppro, the previous teacher didn't actually teach anything
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03:30:08 <coppro> so, anyone interested in a program to display a text file with a tile system?
03:56:10 <Sgeo__> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCD
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05:29:35 <oklopol> heh, now they're drilling in minor third
05:32:26 <oklopol> augur! :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
05:34:37 <oklopol> argh alarm clock is making a sound
05:34:44 <oklopol> WHY IS THIS MORNING FILLED WITH SOUND
05:51:36 <Gracenotes> this is rather useful, javascript:as=document.getElementsByTagName("a");for(i=0;i<as.length;i++){if(as[i].href)as[i].innerHTML=as[i].href};void(0)
05:55:50 <oklopol> in my dream i was in a university that was completely based on aocp, there was one massive building per subsubchapter, 3.1.2. and such
05:56:45 <oklopol> they went up to 8, and i was told that's where all the reeeeally technical math happens
05:56:52 <oklopol> oh, and it was a math university
05:57:36 <pikhq> Gracenotes: That seems silly.
05:58:55 <Gracenotes> domains of usefulness: putting links to download sites into a copy/paste-able form, plugged into a terminal script which downloads them. possibly others.
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06:01:33 <oklopol> why not express the y with s and k
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06:01:52 <oklopol> yeah i guess that was a bit rude on my part
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08:19:15 <Slereah> My computer at home is broken
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10:49:41 <fizzie> Ooh, I don't think we've had an honest-to-$deity A/S/L conversation here very often.
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17:05:40 <fizzie> Maybe his parents found out what sort of people we are, and forbid him to associate with us.
17:10:20 <oerjan> that doesn't explain why he's also gone from reddit. oh wait...
17:10:33 <cpressey> Wait, what sort of people *are* we?
17:11:12 <cpressey> That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
17:11:48 -!- oerjan has set topic: RIP sun.com | 17 days since last ehird sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
17:36:57 <cpressey> Is it just me, or do most developers actually *like* all that operational crap -- debugging, profiling, upgrading dependencies, configuring database servers, etc, etc?
17:37:22 <cpressey> Actually, "Is it just me" was exactly the wrong phrase to start that question with :)
17:38:08 <oerjan> well stop nonsequiting then
17:38:47 <cpressey> Is it just me that sees all the developers around them liking all that operational stuff
17:41:43 <oerjan> well it would be bad if nobody liked it, given that it has to be done
17:53:46 <cpressey> I think maybe some developers like those tasks because they are (in some sense) much easier than designing and coding.
17:56:14 <FireFly> Well, it's also utterly boring :)
17:56:24 <cpressey> Don't mind me, I'm just griping about being asked to profile some trivial changes I made. Outside any loop. In a DB-bound app. In the absence of any concrete performance requirements...
17:59:31 <oklopol> that's what you get for having a job
18:00:48 <cpressey> True. Although I'm sure this kind of thing happens often enough in open-source projects, too. :)
18:01:55 <oklopol> i'm not a strong support of OS either
18:02:11 <cpressey> JWZ once wrote an article griping about how open-source projects only do the work that's fun, not what's important. I wasn't impressed -- that's their freakin' perogative, if no one's paying them.
18:03:11 <oklopol> only do the work that's fun? in what sense?
18:03:47 <oklopol> i mean i'm under the impression OS programs are not inferior in quality to CS ones.
18:03:57 <cpressey> One sec, I'll try to find the article.
18:04:21 <oklopol> i'll prolly go to sleep soon, but maybe i'll read parts of it.
18:04:39 <cpressey> http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
18:07:24 <oklopol> great if that's true, sofar the only reason i have for not liking OS is i don't like it when people don't get paid for what they do.
18:08:22 <oklopol> which is almost "i just dislike for the heck of it".
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19:32:47 <olsner> I don't like doing non-programming crap (either? that original question was a bit unclear)
19:33:58 <olsner> version control, whenever it becomes a distinct activity, also sucks a lot
19:35:51 <cpressey> Hm. I don't mind most version control tasks (although I can see how some can be just awful).
19:37:07 <cpressey> I'm getting used to writing test cases. At least there, there's some concrete improvement you can feel.
19:37:33 <cpressey> And some troubleshooting is inevitable.
19:37:48 <cpressey> But configuring Apache and that sort of stuff... ugh.
19:39:39 <olsner> most VC tasks are basically just the "commit -> done" part of "code -> commit -> done", and that's fine and pretty much fun (since it means your code gets out into the world), but when you spend minutes, hours or days at a time battling version control then it really ... blows
19:40:04 <olsner> moving stuff around in a VCS that doesn't do moving, for example
19:41:46 <cpressey> Oh heck yeah. Maybe it's just me, but distributed version control seems much more hassle than it's worth.
19:42:20 <olsner> I think DVCS:es are more modern and thought-through and thus handle larger projects better
19:43:22 <cpressey> There's an element of that, sure, but I've never actually seen centralized VC fail badly at handling a large project, either.
19:44:05 <olsner> yeah, CVS has the benefit of only having to work at one file at a time :P
19:44:54 <olsner> otoh, CVS implements some of the low-level operations theeee most braindead way possible, takes a few seconds per file to create a branch in some circumstances
19:45:06 <olsner> it's O(n^2) in the number of existing branches
19:52:06 <olsner> I think CVS is actually also using a hashtable to do this, but iterating it linearly
19:52:18 <olsner> or maybe their "hashtable" is just a list/array
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21:04:37 <cpressey> Well! Thanks to profiling, I optimized my cache access function, and it now only accounts for 5.9 microseconds of the access time of each web page, instead of 6.3 microseconds!
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21:10:13 <Sgeo|web> The idiots in my UNIX class are playing the "penis" game
21:11:33 <MissPiggy> but a bit raunchy for a UNIX class
21:11:56 <MissPiggy> or am I thinking of a different game..
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21:29:04 <Sgeo|web> Where a group of people say "penis" louder and louder. The person who refuses to say it loses
21:29:50 <oklopol> lol that sounds awesome :D
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21:53:24 <fizzie> "OpenStreetMap is a free editable map of the whole world. It is made by people like you." People like me! Maybe they could also start a dating service thing, if they can guarantee something like that.
21:54:22 <Gregor> They are like you in that they are people :P
21:55:08 <oerjan> this is insulting to all the non-people who happen to be reading that!
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22:08:05 <cpressey> "It is made by people who like you." Then they'd be even better suited for starting that dating service, no?
22:09:07 <oklopol> "it is made by people, like you".
22:09:16 <oerjan> "It is made by people who hate you and are trying to kill you."
22:10:18 <oklopol> i win because mine was a mom joke
22:10:24 <olsner> "it is made by norwegians."
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22:59:02 * cpressey suspiciously eyes the box labelled "PROBLEM TOMATOES"
23:01:00 <oerjan> i find that a spousy loonerism
23:02:18 <olsner> 0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3 anyway
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23:11:04 <cpressey> You know what would be grand? If there was a scripting language that extended its own traceback/file-inclusion/line-number display when scripts were reading *their* files.
23:11:30 <cpressey> Yeah, there are some complexities to it, but I'm sure they're not insurmountable
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23:45:39 <Wareya> http://cymonsgames.com/forum/index.php?topic=191.0
23:48:36 <cpressey> http://cymonsgames.com/asciiportal/ apparently