00:10:04 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:20:49 -!- nooga has joined. 00:20:54 hello 00:21:08 evening 00:22:45 i'm eriting regexp compiler :D 00:22:49 writing* 00:24:13 ic 00:24:18 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 00:25:19 imagine that you can compile custom grep-like program for matching massive amounts of data against specified regexp 00:26:42 CPU will directly execute the automaton 00:29:45 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:29:50 -!- cpressey has left (?). 00:30:43 -!- cheater has joined. 00:32:53 whenever i write something bigger in C i do this funny thing: first i implement crude lisp and then i use it to write the main thing 00:32:56 :D 00:33:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_Tenth_Rule 00:34:00 yep 00:34:48 i fall into that 00:35:08 Should I learn Lisp? 00:35:11 If so, which? 00:35:22 SICP 00:35:49 As in, which dialect? 00:35:56 I'm not about to go around buying books 00:35:59 SICP 00:36:40 MissPiggy: oh the mighty oracle, what's the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything? 00:36:41 It seems to use Scheme 00:36:56 he told me STFU 00:37:00 oops 00:37:24 Sgeo: short answer: get PLT scheme and never worry about this again. 00:38:38 http://nooga.pl/ 00:38:39 :D 00:38:58 like a f*#(@)&# perl script 00:38:59 Also, which should I focus on learning: Haskell or Scheme? 00:39:04 Sgeo: Haskell 00:39:19 Sgeo: Scheme 00:39:21 Hascheml 00:39:28 learn each of them until you can implement them in each other! 00:39:39 Scheme first, because it's easier 00:39:48 and knowing scheme will help you learn haskell 00:40:01 no, Haskell, because it's awesome 00:40:14 I think I understand Haskell somewhat at this point 00:40:16 so is scheme 00:40:19 yes, Haskell is awesome, so if you start with Haskell you might never get to Scheme 00:40:24 Not sure if knowing Scheme will help any more 00:40:40 I know haskell and scheme, and I know that there's much more to learn from both of them 00:40:40 oh 00:40:58 I don't think Haskell - TICK, Scheme - TICK, next? 00:41:09 SADOL 00:41:10 :D:D:D:D:D: 00:48:38 If I were select one to use as my main language from now on, which should it be? 00:49:26 there is no main language 00:49:39 if you choose one you chose wrong 00:50:25 i use C (C99) and Ruby 00:50:44 C fror speed and Ruby for expression 00:58:34 Sgeo: Haskell. 00:58:45 Sgeo: Haskell 01:04:25 Did nooga turn into a parrot? 01:07:00 -!- jcp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:52 parrot parrot 01:10:09 nooga: quine 01:14:22 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:20:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:20:47 * Sgeo seems to be back in the SG-1 addict groove 01:27:15 don't get stepped on 02:04:50 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:08:05 -!- lament has joined. 02:24:26 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:34:54 http://filebin.ca/ydgebt/pvctrombone.ogg 02:37:14 * Sgeo fails to refrain from commenting 02:37:40 Gregor: Oh, the PVC trombone. 02:38:18 * oerjan fails to refrain from responding to Sgeo's commenting 02:44:13 * pikhq notes that there are a lot of freaking characters in Japanese 02:45:38 how does a japanese character freak, exactly? 02:46:43 oerjan: To get the general sense of that statement, s/freak/fuck/ 02:47:51 well yes i've heard that japanese are very inventive in that department 02:49:27 XD 02:51:40 Literacy is a nontrivial affair. 02:53:46 triviality is a literal affair 02:54:05 Thou art full of pithy sayings. 03:15:55 -!- jcp has joined. 03:48:43 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:50:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:54:23 Why am I not able to focus on my [classified] project? 03:56:27 you have lost your clearance, but of course this fact is secret so they cannot tell you. instead they use the mind control satellites to disorient you. 03:59:10 It's not the government classifying it 03:59:18 It's some company that's giving us the resources 03:59:28 And it's not like I signed a contract to keep anything secret 03:59:30 what, you didn't think the _government_ is in control, did you? 04:00:06 of course you didn't sign a contract, they don't want that kind of evidence lying around 04:01:47 The project was in existance for some time before it became classified. 04:01:56 And I told a lot of people a lot of details 04:02:03 well that is what they _want_ you to think 04:02:51 Well, someone did seem to forget everything after it became classified... 04:11:58 -!- coppro has joined. 04:34:32 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:34:40 -!- rodgort has joined. 04:35:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:35:34 -!- rodgort has joined. 04:44:24 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:49:40 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 05:09:02 -!- augur has joined. 05:11:06 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:29:09 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:52:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:53:17 -!- coppro has joined. 06:02:49 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:03:57 -!- jcp has joined. 06:28:33 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:29:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:29:21 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 06:43:47 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:45:55 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 07:03:17 -!- tombom has joined. 07:05:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:14:45 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 07:25:53 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:50:31 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:59:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it). 09:00:17 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:02:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:08:54 -!- scarf has joined. 09:12:30 -!- Pthing has joined. 13:03:25 -!- Asztal has joined. 13:12:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:14:21 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 13:42:07 -!- augur has joined. 13:44:13 -!- cheater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:44:41 -!- cheater has joined. 13:51:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:31:44 More precisely, it would demand that wormhole ("level 1 wormhole") that has one end in normal space, also has the other end in normal space, wormhole ("level 2 wormhole) that has one end in level 1 wormhole interror space has the other end also, etc... <- would be sad missing out on the possibility of mixed level ones 14:36:05 Gregor: Oh, the PVC trombone. <-- PVC trombone? Is that actually what it sounds like it would be? (can't listen to the music atm, no headphones around, and I'm on the train) 14:36:30 also when wgetting the url times out 14:36:51 I reuploaded to http://codu.org/tmp/pvctrombone.ogg because filebin was being useless. 14:37:06 "Is that actually what it sounds like it would be?" If it sounds like it would be a trombone made of PVC pipe, then yes. 14:37:25 It could look something like this: http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPVCTrombone3.jpg 14:38:25 Gregor, I didn't imagine quite that look 14:38:51 Gregor, how do you tune it? 14:39:15 It's a trombone, it has a slide. 14:39:25 http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPVCTrombone4.jpg Here it is fully extended. 14:39:37 and how do you decide the notes on it. I don't see where you drag it out or whatever it is you do 14:40:26 You play it like a trombone is how :P 14:40:41 hm yes it is extended there 14:40:47 also this lag is horrible. I blame GSM for it 14:40:51 The bit in the bottom left is the mouthpiece, the pipe in the front is just a handle. 14:40:57 (I'm tethering my phone atm) 14:41:08 Sweet :P 14:41:29 what is the pipe that goes up and isn't connected? 14:41:35 or so it seems 14:41:43 with a T-ish shape at the end 14:42:10 oh the handle 14:42:13 Wow, your lag is really bad :P 14:42:17 It's like two minutes. 14:42:27 The bit in the bottom left is the mouthpiece, the pipe in the front is just a handle. 14:42:29 what is the pipe that goes up and isn't connected? 14:42:32 about 2 second diff 14:42:36 in that order 14:42:40 now it seems better 14:42:51 and the mobile indicates it is suddenly on 3G 14:42:54 hm 14:42:54 Yeah, but I said that a minute ago :P 14:43:05 said what a minute ago? 14:43:11 The bit in the bottom left is the mouthpiece, the pipe in the front is just a handle. 14:43:16 oh 14:43:22 They were two seconds off for you, but a lot more than that for me :P 14:43:25 well the lag seems close to none to my bouncer now 14:43:29 Now it does seem to be better now. 14:43:32 *though 14:43:37 yeah 14:44:01 well, it's a train, it is moving. Would jump between different areas with different connectivity 14:45:09 btw: the good thing with living close to a railway station is that that it is close to the station. The bad thing with living close to a railway station is that it is close to the railway station 14:45:59 Gregor, ^ 14:46:23 :P 14:46:53 Wow, today's xkcd is bad, even for xkcd. 14:47:27 saw it earlier yeah 14:47:28 horrible 15:06:23 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:16:11 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:16:38 -!- sshc has joined. 15:42:53 -!- MizardX has joined. 15:58:07 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:11:33 -!- cheater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:11:49 -!- kar8nga has joined. 16:12:04 -!- cheater has joined. 16:59:04 -!- tombom has joined. 17:03:33 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:05:12 -!- cpressey has left (?). 17:09:40 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:42:28 -!- cpressey has joined. 17:53:06 -!- cpressey has left (?). 18:01:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:04:42 -!- augur has joined. 18:04:47 -!- cpressey has joined. 18:13:25 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 18:15:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:16:14 -!- augur has joined. 18:21:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:35:22 How do most reversible esolangs handle interactive I/O? (If at all?) 18:35:52 they force the user to untype the input and to forget the output 18:36:09 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:36:12 cpressey: my reversible brainfuck treats it as a side-effect outside the world 18:36:34 lament: that' EULA, huh? 18:36:38 as in, state of the realWorld is irrelevant in what's reversible, all that matters is that the effect on the tape is reversible 18:37:00 (there was supposed to be a "s in the" in that sentence) 18:38:48 feather, which is reversiblible, is going to have some sort of I/O-equivalence thing in which unproducing then reproducing output is a NOP, but producing different output tries to erase the output produced so far and produce different output 18:38:52 and some similar trick for input 18:39:09 but that's way down the line, I have enough problems trying to prevent infinite recursion in the first place 18:39:48 scarf: OK. I'm thinking of adding interative I/O to Burro 2, is all, and was wondering. 18:40:21 I don't think there's a standard method 18:40:48 It's not hard, because it can just delay all I/O operations until the end of the current iteration. If there was an "un-I/O" operation before the iteration ends, well, it doesn't happen. 18:42:51 what if you branch conditionally on input, then uninput? 18:45:52 unbranch (on the same condition) and re-input, and ultimately re-uninput again? I'm more worried now what uninput without a corresponding input means. 18:45:54 -!- FireyFly has joined. 18:46:38 Wait, you can only branch conditionally on input if the input was from the previous loop iteration. So no problem there, I think. 18:46:58 At the start of the loop, you have no idea where your tape values came from anyway. 18:49:35 An uninput without input can just increment a counter saying "Ignore the next n input operations" 18:59:17 -!- boily has joined. 19:02:32 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FIreFly. 19:02:35 -!- FIreFly has changed nick to FireFly. 19:07:05 scarf, there? 19:07:15 yes, but tired and not really concentrating 19:07:15 scarf, iirc you are on karmic? no? 19:07:20 and yes, I am 19:07:26 scarf, is it reasonably usable/stable yet? 19:07:32 the ext4 bug was recently closed 19:07:42 it may be time to migrate unless there are other huge issues 19:07:52 AnMaster: mostly: the main issue for me is that pulseaudio's ALSA emulation is buggy 19:08:02 scarf, alsa emulation? 19:08:05 wait what happened here 19:08:11 normally it works, but occasionally it causes processes that use it to consume 100% CPU and be unkillable except with -9 19:08:16 isn't it using alsa!? 19:08:21 yet emulating alsa? 19:08:29 no, it's using pulse, which emulates alsa for programs that aren't written against pulse 19:08:32 which is almost everything 19:08:38 scarf, but the kernel uses alsa? 19:08:42 also, brb phone 19:10:36 -!- boily has left (?). 19:11:47 back 19:11:59 scarf, did you have that problem in jaunty? 19:12:15 if not, how many are having the issue (I assume that there is a relevant bug report about this issue?) 19:12:32 AnMaster: I haven't reported it yet, I must get around to that sometime 19:12:39 it's becoming harder to reproduce as time goes on 19:12:52 as in, it's always been intermittent, but it seems to happen a lower and lower proportion of the time 19:12:59 so true 19:13:09 birth rates go down all over the developed world 19:13:12 scarf, huh 19:13:26 lament, how is that related to alsa? 19:13:37 it's becoming harder to reproduce as time goes on 19:13:42 oh hah 19:13:59 WHEER IS EHARD 19:14:35 woah, kipple was last seen 1159 days ago? I'm relatively sure I remember being in here at the same time as them once 19:14:37 scarf, funny, my karmic VM just complained that the virtualbox network was using a .local domain 19:14:43 saying it broke avhi 19:14:49 and how long does that mean I've been here? 19:15:28 -!- pikhq has set topic: RIP sun.com | 0 days since last topic change | 5 days since last alise sighting | 7 days since last ehird sighting | 17 days since last calamari sighting | 206 days since ast graue sighting | 1160 days since last kipple sighting | 2226 days since last sleon|tuX sighting | 2583 days since last hcf sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 19:17:32 I quite like how the only possible value for the first one is 19:17:34 is 0* 19:17:51 Possible *valid* value. 19:17:52 yes 19:17:53 :P 19:17:57 pikhq, well yes 19:17:59 that was given 19:18:05 I hadn't realised that until you pointed it out, how beautifully esoteric 19:18:24 scarf, also then I should point out that it was I that added that bit first 19:19:15 it reminds me of the file-accessed timestamp on Windows 19:19:31 which, at least if you try to view it the usual way (via right-click | properties), involves accessing the file 19:21:13 heh? really? 19:22:38 yep 19:22:44 so you just get the current time 19:23:31 Wikipedia article on the "TLD" .local: "Despite not being a valid top-level domain in the Internet, considerable DNS traffic exists, querying the local domain in the public Domain Name System.[1] In June 2009, the L root server received more than 400 such queries per second,[2] ranking 4th in DNS traffic of all TLDs behind COM, ARPA, and NET." 19:23:43 that's .... weird 19:25:00 There's some really buggy DNS servers out there, apparently. 19:30:27 http://stats.l.root-servers.org/cgi-bin/dsc-grapher.pl?window=604800&plot=qtype_vs_all_tld&server=L-root&key=255 19:30:32 wtf too 19:30:44 .dnsbl? 19:30:55 that's badly misconfigured 19:31:22 http://stats.l.root-servers.org/cgi-bin/dsc-grapher.pl?window=604800&plot=qtype_vs_all_tld&server=L-root&key=38 <-- and A6 queries still too 19:32:00 .lan also shows up on the PTR query graph 19:32:09 and .linksys and what not 19:32:18 http://stats.l.root-servers.org/cgi-bin/dsc-grapher.pl?window=604800&plot=qtype_vs_all_tld&server=L-root&key=12 19:32:46 and I wonder tld .belkin is... 19:33:05 pikhq, heh there are A queries for the tld .invalid 19:33:10 http://stats.l.root-servers.org/cgi-bin/dsc-grapher.pl?window=604800&plot=qtype_vs_all_tld&server=L-root&key=1 19:43:56 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:44:33 -!- casmith789 has joined. 19:44:59 -!- casmith789 has left (?). 19:53:09 And Y29tJw==? That's base64 for "com'" and Y2FcIA==, which seems to be "ca\ "... 19:53:54 And there is Base64 for "org/" as well. 19:54:07 And 'ecuador'? 19:54:27 -!- SimonRC has joined. 20:04:31 Ilari, and .html... 20:04:33 yes 20:04:35 .html 20:04:57 ,home is funny too 20:05:02 .home* 20:05:12 Ilari, the main stats are at http://stats.l.root-servers.org/cgi-bin/dsc-grapher.pl?window=604800&plot=qtype_vs_all_tld&server=L-root 20:05:35 okay the NS graph is funny too 20:14:04 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:37:36 And A6 records? Who uses them? 20:39:28 I thought A6 was obsoleted by AAAA ("Quad-A") records. 20:41:05 -!- alise has joined. 20:41:10 This is Dispatch 2. 20:41:20 you are here 20:41:22 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:41:28 I am that. 20:41:48 -!- pikhq has set topic: RIP sun.com | 0 days since last topic change | 0 days since last alise sighting | 7 days since last ehird sighting | 17 days since last calamari sighting | 206 days since ast graue sighting | 1160 days since last kipple sighting | 2226 days since last sleon|tuX sighting | 2583 days since last hcf sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 20:41:49 alise lol I tried to code my expression problem in agda and got bored because it turned out hard 20:42:16 :) 20:42:25 Hi alise! 20:42:29 Hi. 20:42:30 ;) 20:42:52 I like our topic 20:42:56 I was supposed to remind you of something, but I forgot. On a completely unrelated note, I believe graphs of light can be utilized to facilitate the relocation of certain sentient objects. 20:43:01 Oh, hi, scarf. 20:43:02 alise: Any new suck? 20:43:08 I did not see you last weekend; did you receive my email? 20:43:26 Sgeo: That something was "Get passport photo". 20:43:32 pikhq, I know. 20:43:38 Read the "unrelated note" 20:43:55 Hahahah. 20:43:56 Lawl. 20:44:08 scarf: I am ehird, by the way. 20:44:12 *by the 20:44:18 I'm back to studying Japanese. Whoo. 20:44:25 alise: ah, and I did get your email 20:44:30 Good... 20:44:34 ... Well. I'm being lazy on it today. XD 20:44:35 I wasn't sure if you were someone I already knew, or not 20:44:47 I don't have your whole IP memorised, and you've replaced your whois 20:45:05 Aye... 20:45:09 I thought A6 was obsoleted by AAAA ("Quad-A") records. <-- correct 20:45:12 So you know, then, of the situation. 20:45:12 still used it seems 20:45:19 alise: trying to fly under the radar? or just fancying a change of name? 20:45:45 Just fancied it. Why shouldn't I be allowed to confuse people as to my gender! 20:46:00 meh, I manage that pretty effectively when I'm trying to hide it 20:46:11 My mother saw a practitioner of law (what, they could be googling) a few days ago. Apparently at first glance their chances of sectioning me are somewhere in the vicinity of nil, but that's not an Official Legal Opinion for a while. 20:46:20 sometimes you can get a whole channel apologising to you on the assumption that you're actually female and they've just offended you 20:46:42 alise: I actually started approaching this from a nomic angle 20:46:45 scarf: oh, but "alise" is rather overtly feminine and I've been using female pronouns for no particular reason other than havoc, confusion and finally wrecking the English language's gender-pronoun system once and for all 20:46:51 alise: I love it 20:46:56 scarf: also, that's hardly surprising. you do that to everything :P 20:47:02 alise: They can, however, make life hell for you. 20:47:12 pikhq: not if I don't a-t-t to the e-n-d. 20:47:14 See now. 20:47:23 Yes indeed, AT&T should be a temporary fixture, not an everlasting thing! 20:47:23 a-t-t? 20:47:27 I say to all the googlers. Cough. 20:47:32 pikhq: Concatenate, sir! Concatenate. 20:47:40 Ah. 20:48:07 depriving people of internet access was ruled to be a human rights violation in France, by the way 20:48:15 Alas. If they're just bluffing, then yes, there's jack they can do if you deny them such things. 20:48:42 scarf: that's great. I'll just relocate to France and then put myself in the same situation again :) 20:49:03 yep, not quite useful enough, I was hoping it would be an EU-wide precedent 20:49:52 Also, I would technically be allowed to the internet, were I to bring my own laptop (although they have no Wi-Fi it could be plugged into Ethernet) or my own 3G connection, but if the former it would be censored, and either way one of the nurses would have to be in the room, monitoring it. 20:50:14 So even if it was EU-wide they'd be obeying the letter and flagellating the spirit to death. 20:50:27 Poor precedent-ghasts. 20:50:41 hmm, having a human there defeats all the usual methods of defeating filters 20:50:55 well, not directly, but in a soft-security sort of way 20:50:58 alise, so I guess you can move abroad? 20:51:11 I could do that even if they could section me. 20:51:14 I wonder if there's any way to evade filters steganographically 20:51:18 I move abroad, the UK government cannot touch me. 20:51:29 being mentally ill isn't even illegal... 20:51:37 But not obeying a sectioning is. 20:51:41 That is their threat. 20:51:41 hm 20:51:45 yep, nice loophole there 20:51:51 Delivered to me, clearly, personally: attend, or you will be sectioned. 20:52:09 So there are two options: put them in a position where they cannot section me - i.e. move; or discover that they cannot section me. 20:52:11 alise, well, why not move abroad next weekend or so? 20:52:25 AnMaster: Yes, that sounds lovely and easy. 20:52:41 AnMaster: you can't just randomly decide to go abroad permanently, especially given alise's likely resources 20:52:43 AnMaster: Not being in the Schengen zone, he needs a passport. 20:52:54 scarf: Moving is one of the options being pursued, though. 20:53:06 We moved into Ovington recently, so we have little ties to the location. 20:53:18 alise: there's always the third option, of getting the media involved 20:53:21 scarf: He's a European citizen. Makes it easy. 20:53:34 it's an incredibly risky operation for all sides of the argument, though 20:53:40 scarf: I have considered and rejected that because of the risk. 20:53:44 agreed 20:53:56 scarf: My mother is mentally ill (what it is I will not say, at least in public) and this stemmed from her being treated for that. 20:54:11 If you want the press on your side - at least the press that makes any difference, i.e. the awful press - you need to be spotless. 20:54:13 ok, I don't want to know the details 20:54:22 So, that's almost certainly going to fail. 20:54:24 And I don't want publicity. 20:54:29 and that's a great characterisation of the media 20:54:34 *characterization 20:54:34 -!- tcsavage has joined. 20:54:42 scarf: Are you not British?! 20:54:45 and the reason I correct that is not because of some stupid spelling ridiculousness 20:54:46 What's a tcsavage? 20:54:51 Are you turing complete? 20:55:06 but because I've been writing in Java recently, and have a huge number of method names ending -ize and class names ending -izer 20:55:09 I am not Turing complete 20:55:13 and wanted to standardise on one spelling 20:55:20 I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:55:22 which is the one that the library already used 20:55:43 besides, there are arguments that -ize is correct in British English too, and that -ise is a neologism 20:55:53 I don't mind what English you use. 20:55:59 and I talk in a strange mix of British and American English on the Internet 20:56:00 Omit Us, go ahead. 20:56:03 and occasionally Perl 20:56:05 It doesn't really matter. 20:56:27 I put in the Us and mostly use -ise because I was brought up that way, but it doesn't really bother me at all either way. 20:56:47 "gray" vs. "grey" is another good one 20:56:50 AnMaster: Not being in the Schengen zone, he needs a passport. <-- err, isn't that basically EU? 20:56:58 but you say that UK isn't part of it? 20:56:58 AnMaster: minus UK 20:56:58 hmm, I don't know 20:57:03 scarf, why on earth 20:57:07 AnMaster: plus some other stuff 20:57:10 you need a passport to leave the UK by plane, at least 20:57:12 AnMaster: because the UK is a major international player 20:57:14 probably Ireland too 20:57:15 and we like keeping our distance from the EU 20:57:16 Are humans turing complete? 20:57:21 tcsavage: no infinite memory. 20:57:23 heh 20:57:24 or you could catch a ferry to Northern Island, then walk across the border 20:57:30 I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love <-- brilliant 20:57:31 *Northern Ireland 20:57:34 how did I manage that? 20:57:41 AnMaster: But it is convenient, because of the rights we get. 20:57:51 If we can get a residence in any EU country, we're allowed there. 20:57:51 `quote I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:57:58 umm, what's the syntax? 20:57:58 No output. 20:58:00 We just have to go up to them and say, yo, we're here, and that's pretty much it. 20:58:02 `qdb I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:58:03 scarf: addquote 20:58:03 No output. 20:58:08 `addquote I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:58:09 128| I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:58:13 Also, Reversi/Othello is a really nice game. 20:58:17 yes 20:58:20 Do we have a quote database here? 20:58:22 alise, the other way doesn't work? 20:58:30 AnMaster: ? 20:58:35 Slereah: HackEgo's, aye. 20:58:37 more fun, EU-internal flights you get to avoid customs 20:58:40 I think Sgeo maintains a text version. 20:58:41 Or just: 20:58:41 `quote 20:58:42 128| I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:58:48 scarf: yar 20:58:55 the schengen agreement is sweet 20:59:02 Let's see if I can find it 20:59:13 !swedish I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:59:17 I cun du iferytheeng a Tooreeng mecheene-a cun du, ixcept lufe-a 20:59:20 `swedish I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 20:59:22 I cun du iferytheeng a Tooreeng mecheene-a cun du, ixcept lufe-a 20:59:26 `swedish I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love. 20:59:27 I cun du iferytheeng a Tooreeng mecheene-a cun du, ixcept lufe-a. \ Bork Bork Bork! 20:59:31 is that algorithm deterministic? 20:59:33 Bork bork bork! :D 20:59:35 ah, apparently not 20:59:43 http://209.20.80.194/sgeo/quotes.txt 20:59:49 The bork is trigerred by the dot, scarf 20:59:57 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 20:59:57 2| I used computational linguistics to kill her. 21:00:00 A story in two quotes. 21:00:17 meanwhile, does anyone happen to know of a bz2 implementation in Java that's licenced under a non-insane open source licence (i.e. GPL2 or GPL3 compatible)? 21:00:26 my guess is no, but it can't hurt to ask 21:00:29 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/7222508/Palestinians-dressed-as-the-Navi-from-the-film-Avatar-stage-a-protest-against-Israels-separation-barrier.html 21:00:37 (if you're wondering why, I'm writing the most overengineered ttyrec player ever) 21:00:45 alise, moving I mean 21:00:56 AnMaster: Moving will work, it's just not as simple as you think. 21:00:57 alise, as in, an European can come to UK and settle down 21:01:01 Ah. 21:01:02 No. 21:01:06 It updates every 30min or so 21:01:15 alise, really? It should work both ways to be fair 21:01:15 alise: IIRC, yes but they don't get benefits, etc, unless they get a job 21:01:21 scarf: well, yes 21:01:29 The UK basically gets what they want from the EU and ignores the rest, whatever the tabloids say 21:01:33 AnMaster: politics isn't. 21:01:42 alise: the UK came off /incredibly/ well from the recent EU treaties 21:01:42 and the UK is powerful enough to do it 21:01:59 "125th Barbie: Computer Engineer Barbie" 21:02:01 YESSSSSSSSSSSSS 21:02:05 WHY AM I SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS? 21:02:07 YESSSSSSSSSSSSS 21:02:12 (Interwebs, voting, etc.) 21:02:14 (if you're wondering why, I'm writing the most overengineered ttyrec player ever) <-- why not use JNI? 21:02:17 or whatever it is called 21:02:21 ooh, my todo list is still on pastebin.ca http://pastebin.ca/1794648 21:02:22 http://www.barbiemedia.com/admin/uploads/ComputerEngineerBarbie.pdf 21:02:22 to use the native library 21:02:28 -!- MizardX- has joined. 21:02:37 scarf: do you realise that the kind of people who use ttyrec won't use a Java program? :P 21:02:38 AnMaster: since when did all platforms that support Java have a ttyrec library installed by default? 21:02:50 scarf, bz2 library I meant.... 21:02:53 alise: empirical evidence contradicts your statement 21:02:54 not ttyrec one 21:02:56 AnMaster: *bz2 21:03:01 scarf: Sample size? 21:03:05 alise: about 4, tbh 21:03:15 # 21:03:15 Running the .jar is sort-of awkward in many OSes, including mine. Is there a way to get it working like a program 21:03:15 # 21:03:15 written in some other language? .jnlp is nice for evaluation, but doesn't leave the program installed. 21:03:20 ^ this is where Java starts giving you hell 21:03:23 agreed 21:03:26 it's possible, but you'll hate life 21:03:33 I suspect you'll give up on Java at some point 21:03:41 what is .jnlp? 21:03:46 my solution is to write the program as a jnlp | javac | gcj polyglot 21:03:53 AnMaster: Java Network Launch Protocol, used by Java Web Start 21:03:57 àh 21:03:59 ah* 21:04:06 If I was a computer engineer 21:04:07 * Sgeo should be doing homework nowish 21:04:08 for some reason, Sun decided that the standard method of packaging Java programs came free with automatic updates 21:04:11 I wouldn't wear that dress 21:04:16 I mean, I have a linux shirt 21:04:19 But this is just too much 21:04:24 Slereah, what dress? 21:04:29 http://www.barbiemedia.com/admin/uploads/ComputerEngineerBarbie.pdf 21:04:32 I don't see why people should have to trust me in particular to run a program I write, they should just have to trust its source code 21:04:42 ofc, in practice the two are pretty much identical, but I'm too idealistic to admit that 21:04:52 Slereah, wth 21:04:57 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:04:58 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 21:05:02 AnMaster, alise linked to it 21:05:05 I think 21:05:07 hm 21:05:13 very wth 21:05:30 scarf: you should package it as a .jar 21:05:44 AnMaster: what, is it *wrong* to promote computer engineering now? :) 21:05:44 alise: that's what I'm doing atm 21:05:49 barbie does every other career, you know 21:05:53 and I'm working to remove library dependencies atm 21:05:57 scarf: you write a shell script to find where you are and java -jar it 21:06:01 with -classpath containing all your dependencies 21:06:02 mostly because I'm hardly using any features of it 21:06:09 (have /usr/lib/somethingplay/(stuff)) 21:06:19 the idea's to have no dependencies outside the jar itself; this isn't deliberate, it just kind-of happened 21:06:35 on a nice side-note, by default netbeans links in lgpl libraries to your project, but doesn't include their sources 21:06:47 meaning it's illegal to distribute the resulting program without chasing their source 21:06:51 alise, no, just that is so unrealistic. I mean, there are female CS students at the university I'm at. One of them wore an ubuntu jacket today I noticed. 21:07:04 Barbie, UNREALISTIC?! 21:07:08 and very definitely not *pink* 21:07:22 there are girl-chic computer scientists 21:07:23 QUICK, FIND ONE 21:07:34 alise, I mean, it is too pink. That is promoting gender differences or something. 21:07:40 alise : Lady Ada Lovelace 21:07:45 Slereah, haha 21:07:56 http://membres.multimania.fr/bewulf/Russell/2003-06-Ada_Lovelace.jpg 21:07:59 AnMaster: I think any feminist would agree that women have the right to wear whatever the hell they like :P 21:07:59 You can't be classier 21:08:08 according to QI, which is a UK quiz show based around questions where the obvious answer is false, traditionally blue was for girls and pink for boys, but it swapped somewhere in history 21:08:10 lovelace was sweet. 21:09:01 She has Leia hair 21:09:30 I've seen an actual photo of her 21:09:42 But it was in her cancer period so she doesn't look that pretty 21:09:53 I didn't know she had cancer 21:09:54 :( 21:10:16 She died quite young 21:10:19 Like in her 40's 21:10:56 scarf: I love QI. 21:11:07 22:17:00 Haskell is a language that curries functions 21:11:08 22:17:09 Haskell is named for Haskell Curry 21:11:08 22:17:15 currying is named for Haskell Curry 21:11:12 I'd love QI more if it were easier for me to watch 21:11:14 Well they named it Haskell because of Haskell Curry, obviously 21:11:17 Sgeo: Piracy?? 21:11:19 *Piracy? 21:11:27 alise, preferably no BitTorrent 21:11:33 oh, one thing that worries me a lot; the more I use Java, the more I discover similarities to Haskell in it 21:11:36 No! 21:11:39 YouTube if possible 21:11:39 "(Maybe it is because the TAVSYS file stores string using Baudot?)" --zzo38 21:11:46 Sgeo: man up and bittorrent 21:11:49 They named it Hakell after Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver! 21:11:49 http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/BigPictures/Lovelace_3.jpeg 21:11:53 cpressey: OH 21:11:54 Daguerotype picture :o 21:11:57 I suppose that's because without using it, you couldn't possibly imagine the languages were remotely similar 21:12:03 I'm always under the impression that I'll get caught if I BitTorrent 21:12:05 Slereah: I'd curry her function. 21:12:07 Sgeo: MAN 21:12:08 UP 21:12:09 They might have even named it Haskell for that reason 21:12:21 anyway, teaching Java's my day job, so I may as well get at least half-decent at it 21:13:45 scarf: And what has Java learned so far from you? 21:13:56 >_< 21:14:07 cpressey: I did *not* come back from that place to experience puns as bad. 21:14:10 cpressey: /me thinks 21:14:49 oh, that was a pun? 21:14:51 alise: I blame oerjan and lament for setting the atmosphere 21:14:54 just got it 21:14:57 * scarf continues thinking 21:15:31 * scarf stops thinking 21:15:31 I don't have that programmery-thing anymore 21:15:37 the one where you actually write programs 21:16:35 MissPiggy: I sort of do, but it's constantly plagued with "this would be so much better in /my/ language". 21:16:42 I expect it to pick up again soon. 21:17:02 I'm in a C++ class. I'm dealing with C# recently. 21:17:10 And now I'm looking into Haskell again 21:17:16 That feeling is pretty much a constant 21:17:35 alise: I'm getting pretty good at just language-hopping, recently 21:17:55 I suppose the benefit of working on esolangs so much is that when you get the impulse "this would be so much better in feather", you can just ignore it 21:19:17 AnMaster: I think any feminist would agree that women have the right to wear whatever the hell they like :P <-- true 21:19:18 heh 21:19:48 alise, my point was that barbie in general seems... overly pink. Not a varied selection there. 21:19:52 AnMaster: men too? 21:20:22 scarf, hm? Is this some reference to skin colour of Europeans? 21:20:32 no 21:20:33 x.x 21:20:40 AnMaster: because little girls tend to like pink. Call it society or inherent, or whatever you want. 21:20:43 But 's true. 21:20:44 I mean, would any feminist agree that men have the right to wear whatever the hell they like? 21:21:07 Of course not 21:21:10 alise, yes, and I think society encourages it. At least it doesn't seem to try to be neutral about it 21:21:21 scarf, I have no idea. Ask alise. 21:21:27 but I guess so 21:21:38 Not any feminist but all the sane ones. 21:21:44 well okay 21:21:48 Sane feminism nowadays is an alias for someone who supports equality. 21:21:52 yep 21:21:58 But if you go further you get, well, S.C.U.M. Manifesto. 21:22:17 alise, I'm not familiar with that 21:22:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto 21:22:22 * AnMaster googles 21:22:29 oh damn you, for once you provide a link! 21:22:38 I love you too. 21:24:53 hah 21:25:07 |^^^^^^^^^^^\||_____ 21:25:07 | STFU |||""'|"""\___ O 21:25:07 | ______________|||___|__|__|) -|- (@)@)""""""**|(@)(@)**|(@) / \ 21:26:34 wat. 21:26:36 ..? 21:26:51 that doesn't even line up in monospace... 21:26:55 anwhere 21:26:57 anywhere* 21:27:00 AnMaster: it lines up in proportional to start with 21:27:04 but messes up towards the end 21:27:20 scarf, eh? well the first | lines up yes 21:27:24 but the rest makes no sense 21:27:25 I once saw a massively complex table designed to line up in proportional that used ` and ' for spacing 21:27:33 scarf, wtf 21:27:34 also 21:27:42 that would only work for a given font 21:27:54 AnMaster: yes, but most of them have approximately similar metrics 21:27:57 scarf, and what was the context of that table? 21:28:05 AnMaster: it was in a forum post on GameFAQs 21:28:46 scarf, approx similar metrics sure, but small differences would result in large differences near the end of the line 21:29:03 since they would basically add up in the long run 21:29:05 not really, the font size was very small 21:29:16 sufficiently so that ' was one pixel plus one pixel of spacing 21:29:23 and ` was two pixels plus one pixel of spacing 21:29:31 then was the actual text in that table readable? 21:29:48 yes 21:29:58 different font size? 21:30:02 this was back in the days before antialiasing was common, and where pixels were large enough to be visible 21:30:08 ah 21:30:19 same font size, a typical capital letter was maybe five or six pixels wide 21:30:23 was just going to suggest getting a high dpi monitor ;P 21:30:40 scarf, iirc gamefaqs uses monospaces 21:30:50 "Forum post". 21:30:53 at least it did yesterday when I checked some walkthrough for a game I was stuck in 21:30:53 AnMaster: for the FAQs; not in the forum posts though 21:30:55 alise, oh right 21:30:58 Actual GameFAQs thingies are just text files. 21:31:01 they have a forum? 21:31:03 XD 21:31:03 yes 21:31:16 it's sometimes more informative than the FAQs themselves 21:31:17 (btw I think it was paper mario for n64) 21:31:24 because it's moderated by different people 21:31:34 GameFAQs' forums are interesting, mostly because of LUE lore 21:31:35 and people post rejected FAQs to the forums, and if the mods there like them they get stickied 21:31:39 not that i've ever read them 21:31:41 alise, LUE? 21:31:43 just articles *about* them 21:31:47 AnMaster: It's COMPLICATED! 21:31:58 alise, sure, but what does it mean? 21:32:04 so you have two independent sources of FAQs on the same website 21:32:08 That, that is also complicated. 21:32:10 right 21:32:28 ... 21:32:31 whatever 21:32:33 Basically, uh, it's a board or was a board or something on GameFAQs. 21:32:38 right 21:32:54 Life, the Universe, and Everything, and basically you had to have a lot of ... RPG-esque stats to get in there, basically. And then it sprung off into tons of other thing and glorious drama blah blah. 21:32:57 It's not that interesting, I guess. 21:33:18 mhm 21:33:58 why does almost every nintendo game contain at least one or two points where you have to do something so non-obvious that there is no way to figure it out without a walkthrough 21:34:16 AnMaster: Gotta sell those copies of Nintendo Power magazine 21:34:28 AnMaster: pokemon doesn't, AFAIK 21:34:37 cpressey, don't they realise people just check gamefaqs? ;) 21:34:43 scarf, ah maybe, never played those 21:34:52 this was paper mario 21:34:57 forgot what the tricky thing was 21:35:30 scarf, so, maybe we should say "every rpg or adventure game" 21:35:50 though there were a few weird ones in mario 64 and such too 21:35:59 (paper mario is an rpg) 21:36:39 Nintendo Power is older than GameFAQs. :P 21:36:42 I needed spoilers for the bit in mario 64 where you have to zoom in and change the camera angle, to trigger you teleporting 21:36:49 what XD 21:36:57 scarf, would that be the flying cap thingy? 21:37:11 AnMaster: yep (or just the cap switch generally in the DS version) 21:37:14 well yes, that was quite tricky 21:37:21 scarf, there is just one cap switch there? 21:37:37 yes, the locations of the other two were changed to have a couple of stars instead 21:37:45 also, I wasn't aware of that they ported it to DS 21:37:51 and there's a multiple-characters thing instead, which has new levels 21:38:04 scarf, did they fix the bad camera control when they ported it? 21:38:13 also, didn't they have to lose some of those stars 21:38:16 that need the other caps 21:38:19 it's not awful in the port, but I'm not sure what it was like originally 21:38:21 and there are more starts 21:38:23 *stars 21:38:33 scarf, but what about metal and vanish caps? 21:38:37 instead of flying cap as mario, vanish cap as mario, metal cap as mario 21:38:47 it's flower as mario, flower as luigi, flower as wario 21:38:53 err 21:39:00 and the cap switch creates blocks that drop flowers 21:39:03 scarf, that means some of the stars must have been relocated 21:39:09 AnMaster: why? 21:39:13 since they depended on the caps to be reachable 21:39:22 AnMaster: you can still get all three cap effects 21:39:24 like, you had to fly, or use the metal 21:39:26 just you get them a different way 21:39:31 scarf, ah. I see 21:39:54 scarf, but why wario. Why. 21:39:55 scarf: The cap switches are entirely optional, y'know. 21:39:59 It doesn't make sense in that game 21:40:15 pikhq: in the original, yes; in the sequel, no 21:40:24 pikhq, err really? No that wouldn't work for the first level where you have to pass through those rings of coins 21:40:24 Wait, they made it required? 21:40:27 well, you don't have to hit the switch 21:40:32 pikhq, well, maybe you need all coins? 21:40:35 err 21:40:36 all stars 21:40:36 but you do have to release at least Mario, which is sort-of the equivalent of hitting a switch 21:40:37 AnMaster: You don't have to get all the stars. 21:40:37 true 21:40:43 pikhq, true I guess 21:40:55 you can leave luigi and wario locked up all game, though, I did on my first playthrough 21:41:02 01:02:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Defcalc <<< this is just tree rewriting 21:41:04 Don't caaaaaare 21:41:09 scarf, err, how do you start playing as then? 21:41:17 AnMaster: 70 stars to beat the game. 21:41:18 Do you like trees 21:41:23 AnMaster: There are 120 stars *in* the game. 21:41:28 AnMaster: you start as Yoshi, obviously 21:41:31 pikhq, ah yes, remember now 21:41:36 scarf, what? Not in the original 21:41:37 pikhq: the numbers were bumped to 90 and 150 for the DS port, IIRC 21:41:42 scarf, in the original you start as mario 21:41:47 and play mario all the way 21:41:48 AnMaster: yes, I'm describing a port with some enhanced features 21:42:03 if it was a straight port, it wouldn't have sold as well as a port with some extra levels 21:42:07 scarf, s/enhanced/totally wrecked/ 21:42:07 -!- Slereah has quit. 21:42:16 AnMaster: what makes you think that? 21:42:22 Also, the metal cap doesn't really need a FAQ to get. 21:42:24 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:42:33 scarf, some extra levels sure, but what I'm finding an issue with is changing the playing character so completely 21:42:40 It's in a level where the vanish cap is useful. 21:42:45 err, most of the controls are the same 21:43:00 pikhq, I found the vanish cap without problems. And, You mean "where the metal cap is useful" 21:43:03 replacing mario's 3d model with yoshi's isn't a massive change 21:43:11 AnMaster: Erm, right. 21:43:14 s/You/you/ 21:43:22 scarf, same abilities? 21:43:23 and the characters are mostly similar, apart from each has a few moves the others don't 21:43:24 Really, it's just the wing cap that's a "guide dang it" sort of thing. 21:43:36 pikhq, true 21:43:43 alise: ? 21:43:58 pikhq, actually I found that one by pure chance, I wanted to check what the odd white column in the emulator was 21:44:01 "WTF is with the light from the roof?" 21:44:03 because it didn't draw it properly 21:44:07 AnMaster: mario is the only one who can wall-kick; yoshi can't punch (swallowing enemies instead); luigi's backflips last ages; wario's punches are super-powerful 21:44:11 in the game it isn't as visible normally 21:44:11 AnMaster: Heheheh. 21:44:14 that's about it for the differences, though 21:44:22 AnMaster: No, it's pretty darned visible. 21:44:27 As a column of light. 21:44:32 cpressey: "?"? 21:44:32 oh, yoshi can fly to some extent, but not very far 21:44:36 pikhq, not *soild white column* though 21:44:46 Ah. Yeah. 21:44:52 It looks like a sunbeam, not a white column. 21:44:57 In which Mario is standing. 21:45:10 pikhq, I know, they fixed that bug later in mupen64plus iirc 21:45:18 if you press A while standing there, you get a message saying "mario... hello..." or something like that 21:45:20 it looks like a sunbeam on modern versions 21:45:24 alise: oklopol, Defcalc, tree rewriting, Slereah likes trees, or something 21:45:40 Amidst Mario chatter 21:45:42 scarf, fly? how does that even make any sense 21:45:47 Right, yes, I was just telling oklopol to shut his foo because it's still a nice language. 21:45:52 AnMaster: it's more gliding 21:45:59 cpressey, I like trees too. Nature is fun. 21:46:05 basically, if you hold down jump, you go up for a bit before going down 21:46:10 AnMaster: Yeah. 21:46:12 scarf, *how* 21:46:13 and you can move for that time 21:46:31 Mupen64plus now emulates that game 100% perfectly. 21:46:33 scarf, I mean, Yoshi isn't very aerodynamic really! 21:46:37 AnMaster: he has wings? 21:46:44 huh? does he? 21:46:44 I think, anyway 21:46:56 little stubby ones that rather restrict flying, but enough to keep him in the air for a bit 21:46:57 AnMaster: It's just what Yoshi does. 21:47:06 He does it in all the games in which Yoshi is playable. 21:47:17 hm, I haven't played many games with yoshi in 21:47:18 Mmm, double-jump. 21:47:30 Never played Mario World? 21:48:08 pikhq: the super mario 64 ds version is more like one continuous jump than a double-jump 21:48:25 pikhq, mario world, maybe. SNES? 21:48:38 pikhq, and boring plus rather hard 21:48:47 I prefer RPGs mostly actually. 21:48:56 snes rpgs are lovelu 21:48:58 lovely* 21:48:59 scarf: Weird. 21:49:05 (sometimes at least) 21:49:07 yoshi's sort of gliding thing is fun 21:49:20 because in yoshi island ds, and maybe the original it's based on too, it sounds and looks like he's desperately taking a dump 21:49:21 AnMaster: SNES. And one of the greatest platformers. 21:49:27 which makes him flutter up momentarily 21:49:31 HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 21:49:33 (also one of the easier ones) 21:49:35 pikhq, mario 64 is way better (apart from the camera of course) 21:49:43 AnMaster: No. 21:49:51 Mario 64 is as good. 21:49:52 :P 21:49:53 Super Mario Bros 1, bitches. 21:49:54 in the DS version, you mostly just use R as a camera control 21:49:55 No competition. 21:50:01 alise: Mario 3. 21:50:04 pikhq, well, I'm good at mario 64. I suck at mario world 21:50:08 thus the world one is worse 21:50:09 ;) 21:50:13 AnMaster: How can you suck at it? 21:50:14 DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DAH--duh. Duh duh duh, da duh duh duh duh duh dah dah dah dah dah duh dah duh 21:50:19 pikhq, always dying? 21:50:26 the camera stays in much the same angle while it's released, swings behind you when it's pressed 21:50:26 hard to time jumps? 21:50:31 Infinite powerups and trivial one-ups! 21:50:36 alise: How 'bout just Mario Bros? 21:50:45 pikhq, the issue is the jumps 21:50:58 AnMaster: You can try again. Forever. 21:51:05 pikhq, also, time limit 21:51:06 iirc 21:51:11 mario 64 lacks that 21:51:11 cpressey: meh 21:51:15 cpressey: boring arcade-ish game imo 21:51:16 AnMaster: You can go back to the level. 21:51:23 (also, how 'bout just donkey kong?!) 21:51:24 pikhq, well, I hate time limits 21:51:38 If you run out of lives, you fail at gaming forever. 21:51:40 i never really run into SMB's time limmits 21:51:48 I run out of lives in SMB1 all the time though :) 21:52:07 (to get a 1-up, kill the Koopa Troopas at the start of 1-1 and exit the level) 21:52:07 alise: How 'bout that little-known, hand-held LCD-screen game, "Mario's Cement Factory"? Now that's retro. 21:52:18 cpressey: I know it 21:52:24 scarf: Really! 21:52:30 cpressey, what? 21:52:31 alise: there's an infinite loop near the start of 1-1 21:52:33 * AnMaster googles 21:52:42 where you can get an extra life, get a coin, then die 21:52:49 I only remember it vaguely from an issue of Electronic Gaming from the 80's 21:52:49 and respawn where you can repeat the process 21:52:56 cpressey: you were so amazed it wasn't even a ? 21:53:00 it was just a ! question 21:53:10 cpressey: I've even seen one of the original game&watch games, and even played it, although I'm not sure it was that one in particular 21:53:11 alise: Yes! 21:53:15 scarf: let's confuse you: I'm using Linux, and like the typography and fonts 21:53:23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Gw_donkeykong_trans.png 21:53:29 handheld nintendo console with two screens 21:53:33 Wait, that should have been: alise: Yes? 21:53:36 and a dpad, and some buttons 21:53:38 folds 21:53:42 yep 21:53:54 hm "game & watch"? never heard about that before 21:54:02 AnMaster: thou art luckey. 21:54:03 *lucky 21:54:08 also, strange there is a super mario wiki 21:54:12 AnMaster: Play more Smash Bros. 21:54:14 AnMaster: dates from before games consoles were capable of running more than one game 21:54:16 and how is that strange? 21:54:35 pikhq, what? the fighting games? 21:54:38 I loath that genre 21:54:42 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Gamewatch_mariobros_open.JPG IT'S JUST LIKE A BOOK 21:54:59 let's see if we can all agree on one game being great 21:55:01 Mario Kart! 21:55:06 alise: which version? 21:55:10 alise: Which one? 21:55:14 How do you play this 21:55:15 uh, I mainly play double dash, the gamecube one 21:55:18 It has like two buttons 21:55:22 I've actually played all but the Gamecube and Wii ones 21:55:28 That was the best one, IMO. 21:55:30 I've played the DS one 21:55:31 it's rubbish 21:55:34 the wii one is also rubbish 21:55:36 the steering is wonky 21:55:38 really hard to steer precisely 21:55:43 All the console ones were good. 21:55:44 just seems really fuzzy, not enough mario karty 21:55:47 Not played the portable ones. 21:55:50 especially with the wheel 21:55:53 the wheel is worse than useless 21:55:54 although, I was too young to understand when I was playing the SNES version; I played it in a supermarket creche while my parents were shopping 21:55:56 Why am I interested in Muppets right now? 21:56:00 and never figured otu the controls 21:56:01 *out 21:56:07 huh, the original mario kart came out in 1992? 21:56:09 the DS one is rather broken, and I dislike the level design 21:56:09 alise: Play it with a Gamecube controller. 21:56:14 I thought 64 was the latest one 21:56:15 Mario Kart! <-- no 21:56:19 I don't like that genre either 21:56:20 pikhq: I might as well just play the gamecube version 21:56:22 What about: 21:56:22 the graphics are sharper 21:56:23 AnMaster: well, die. 21:56:25 the N64 one was fun, if a little prone to random explosions 21:56:29 * alise throws a blue shell at AnMaster 21:56:30 alise, Mario RPG? 21:56:31 and had some great level design 21:56:34 that one is good 21:56:35 I've actually dodged a blue shell before! 21:56:35 the SNES one 21:56:36 alise: Yeah. The Gamecube one is better. 21:56:38 also mario 64 21:56:48 One way I know is sure-fire, and the other way was the luckiest fluke ever. 21:56:51 Can't reproduce the latter. 21:56:56 AnMaster: <3 Mario RPG. 21:56:59 the GBA one is rather neat too, they managed to balance the items well and the battle mode is great 21:57:17 pikhq, what about paper mario? It is quite nice 21:57:22 played that recently 21:57:27 AnMaster: Not played it. 21:57:41 pikhq, the n64 one that is 21:57:42 I only own one console, BTW. 21:57:50 pikhq, I own none 21:57:57 Ah. Haven't played it, but I probably have the ROM. 21:57:58 thus I can't play anything newer than n64 21:58:14 the sure-fire way, btw, is to go up a blasting tunnel - like in Daisy Cruiser's longcut or D.K. Mountain - while it locks on to you 21:58:16 pikhq, use glide64 to get anything usable in mupen64plus for it 21:58:17 I picked up a backwards-compatible PS3 recently. 21:58:23 pikhq, paper mario that is 21:58:25 it will "hit" you in the air, though you won't see it, and it'll have no effect 21:58:25 -!- jcp has joined. 21:58:29 of course, you need to time it rather well... 21:58:34 AnMaster: Already do; couldn't get Mario 64 working otherwise. 21:58:53 And, well. It's freaking Mario 64. 21:58:55 pikhq, glide64 is the only decently working video plugin for most games 21:59:11 alise: doesn't work in the DS version, btw, it falls back while you blast, and catches up to you afterwards 21:59:22 scarf: pah, other people have tried this! 21:59:24 I am not so special 21:59:30 Best 3D Mario game. :) 21:59:31 in the DS version, a skilled player can set off a power-slide turbo boost at an exact moment to dodge it, but I'm not that good 21:59:47 pikhq, camera control 21:59:56 (the PSTB fanaticism in the DS version really defines the game; it's probably a bad thing, it leads to you wearing your left thumb out) 22:00:07 pikhq, I hate the camera control in mario 64 22:00:14 AnMaster: Yes, that is the one thing that's off. 22:00:15 sure, it is a good idea but it doesn't work out well 22:00:22 (also, I dislike the way items work in the DS version, they're pretty much all designed to screw over the leader, you can't do clever things like setting red shells as mines any more) 22:00:22 Glide64 is a weird name for a video plugin, assuming it doesn't actually use the 3dfx Glide API. 22:00:31 fizzie, I think it does.... 22:00:33 Would be much better if it were analog. 22:00:47 scarf: I hate how sending a blue shell backwards as 1st player hits yourself 22:00:47 fizzie, or some opengl wrapper thingy for it 22:00:55 it's just... argh, no, I didn't tell you to do that 22:01:04 alise: what does sending it forwards do? 22:01:09 the same. 22:01:13 blue shells don't aim :P 22:01:15 they just hit player 1 22:01:17 same happens in the DS version 22:01:28 the ds version's graphics suck and i find the gameplay a little sluggish 22:01:34 hm 22:01:39 in the GBA version, you can trail a spiky shell behind you like with other shells, and it will protect you and break like a green shell does 22:01:45 I never liked either fighting or racing games 22:01:51 Fully 1/3 of my scrollback is now Mario-related. 22:01:51 mario kart isn't really a racing game 22:01:53 and if you fire it forwards, it just goes straight and hits a wall and dies 22:01:57 RPGs and some platformers is what I like 22:01:57 cpressey: SHADDUP 22:01:59 if you fire it backwards, it stays there as a mine 22:01:59 also zelda games 22:02:08 alise: the DS version is, because they nerfed items so badly for the leader 22:02:09 zelda a link to the past or oot 22:02:11 which is best 22:02:14 the other versions aren't, really, though 22:02:19 * AnMaster waits for the flamewar to die down over that 22:02:28 scarf, alise pikhq ^ 22:02:35 AnMaster: I've never played either 22:02:39 -_- 22:02:40 although I've watched two OoT TASes 22:02:45 scarf, TAS? 22:02:46 a normal one, and a RBG one 22:02:51 tool assisted speedruns 22:02:52 AnMaster: tool-assisted speedrun 22:02:56 scarf, RBG? 22:02:59 reverse bottle glitch 22:03:00 AnMaster: That's a weird way to do it, but yes, it seems you're right. At least it explains the name. 22:03:01 scarf, cheat codes? 22:03:04 artworks in which you slow down time in the game and use repeated save/loads to get an almost perfect time for a game 22:03:06 not a cheat code, exactly 22:03:09 using glitches is fair game 22:03:14 scarf, also wth is "reverse bottle glitch"? 22:03:17 it's memory corruption 22:03:23 (I made sure to call them artworks so you'd get upset and trash them) 22:03:26 fizzie, It could be fairly old code? 22:03:39 basically, you use a race condition while fishing to get a bottle into an inventory slot it can't normally occupy 22:03:40 AnMaster: It probably is; no-one'd do it that way nowadays. 22:03:43 AnMaster: That's a weird way to do it, but yes, it seems you're right. At least it explains the name. 22:03:44 wut 22:03:53 alise, glide64 22:04:02 then you keep catching and releasing bugs; every time you do so, it copies one of the bytes that holds item quantities over another 22:04:06 ah 22:04:08 alise, one of the video plugins for mupen64 22:04:10 according to how your inventory's arranged 22:04:16 alise, the only one that works decently too 22:04:29 so you seemingly do random sidequests for most of the game, then randomly you've completed all the dungeons in the game 22:04:44 scarf, heh 22:04:46 Some of the TASes use quite a lot of special programming in them; I think some of the megaman ones had pretty complicated programs to do the optimal-route-finding. 22:04:52 scarf, you still need to complete the first normally 22:04:55 a good RBG quest doesn't complete any of the compulsory dungeons apart from the last one, and for that one you skip most of them 22:04:57 AnMaster: no you don't 22:05:01 scarf, no? 22:05:02 AnMaster: There's glitches to skip that. 22:05:07 ah 22:05:49 scarf, interesting how it can skip over going to big link? 22:05:51 err 22:05:54 grown up link 22:05:55 I meant 22:06:12 I assume it would have to 22:06:14 oh, you just wander into the temple of time, become big link, and wander back out again 22:06:24 glitching past all the barriers that would normally stop you just doing that without prerequisites 22:06:31 so, trollaxing time 22:06:36 best characters/kart in mario kart? 22:06:43 scarf, there must have to be a *LOT* of glitches? 22:06:47 AnMaster: yes, it's a TAS 22:06:51 alise, don't they all work exactly the same iirc? 22:06:56 AnMaster: no 22:06:57 alise, at least in the n64 version 22:07:01 09:40:04 cpressey, isn't there an algorithm for converting it to RPN? 22:07:04 shunting thingy dijkstra bla 22:07:06 scarf, pretty sure they do in the n64 version 22:07:06 AnMaster: http://www.tasvideos.org/ZeldaOcarinaOfTimeTricks.html 22:07:07 AnMaster: nah different speed, accel, etc 22:07:14 powerup weights, i think 22:07:15 and special powerups 22:07:17 alise, err yes, it was mentioned a bit later iirc 22:07:18 ... 22:07:28 AnMaster: i'm logreading an entire week 22:07:34 don't give me shit or i'll start blabbing about how bad it was 22:07:35 alise, where is that described? Not in game? 22:07:40 yeah in game 22:07:42 in the gcn one 22:07:48 gcn? 22:07:53 my definition of a TAS: it's where you painstakingly spend months, interactively at a copy of the game, using rewinds, slowdown, etc., to record a script that plays the game as near-perfectly as you can manage 22:07:54 gamecube nintendo 22:07:54 alise, I'm talking about n64 here 22:08:00 go to single player mode, select characters, select kart, look at kart stats 22:08:05 alise: I can summarize my lines: "Hate Python, haaaaate." 22:08:09 then you just plug the script into an emulator, and get a really really fast tool-assisted speedrun 22:08:17 cpressey: having to work with it? 22:08:18 scarf, heh 22:09:23 http://tasvideos.org/RockmanTricks.html is also a nice list. 22:09:25 cpressey: I don't think I've ever met anyone who hates Python before, so it's refreshing 22:09:32 especially as a Perl fan myself, I should have come across more 22:09:41 scarf: The Pokemon Yellow speedrun couldn't have taken more than an evening to do, though. 22:09:44 I hate Python. 22:09:47 pikhq: sure? 22:09:53 they skip out all the rerecords 22:09:58 in the final product 22:10:03 scarf: it probably uses some glitch 22:10:07 to win the game in three minutes or something 22:10:08 Though, that's because the only glitch is restarting the console at the right time. 22:10:11 i.e. a joek a joek lol 22:10:18 typically, a TAS takes a month of work to produce an hour of output 22:10:21 alise: 2 minutes. 22:10:28 pikhq: How on earth? 22:10:31 pikhq: ah, that's the one I was talking about 22:10:36 It saves. Shuts down the game in the middle of saving. 22:10:47 Starts the game, loads. 22:10:51 Goes into battle. 22:10:55 alise: basically, if you turn it off while saving, all the remaining save data is full of the same byte 22:11:11 pikhq: not quite, it went and did lots of changing the pokemon list, which was 255 items long and so overflowed into main memory 22:11:14 alise: Yes, it's my day job. scarf: The next time someone refers to it as "uncluttered" I shall refer them to the design of the pickle module, and have them compare it to any other modern language's serialization facilities. 22:11:27 scarf: That happened in-battle, and I was typing out the description. 22:11:33 cpressey: I never really thought of you as a day job kind of guy, Cats Eye surely generates some money right?! 22:11:35 scarf: Also, that was the item list. 22:11:38 pikhq: oh, I got the order wrong 22:11:45 You can't possibly have time for all the stuff you do without either not having a day job or sleeping polyphasically, surely. :P 22:11:49 It swapped the item list around to write memory such that it skipped to the end of the game after the battle. 22:12:07 I thought the pokemon list was involved too, but that might have been a different TAS 22:12:08 alise: I wish. 22:12:20 scarf: 0 pokemon. 22:12:39 pikhq: same, but I thought the /list/ was still used 22:13:15 The Pokemon Green one was fun, also. 22:13:20 i'm watching that speedrun now 22:13:23 Started a walk through walls glitch. 22:13:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:13:25 "Go 9999999999999999999999999999999999999[lots of 9s]" 22:13:27 *Go! 22:13:33 alise: I had more time when I was at school, and when I was commuting to/from work at my previous job. 22:13:38 Walked to the end-of-game. 22:13:42 End. 22:13:44 :D 22:13:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr3L597dZFM 22:13:54 it's so pretty 22:14:36 "you made this game your bitch" --youtube comment 22:15:11 alise: what's that a link to (at work)? 22:15:30 PKMN Yellow speedrun 22:16:08 ah, I've seen that one already I think 22:16:17 which platforms are the pokemon games for? 22:16:18 Youtube URLs are so opaque... 22:16:22 AnMaster: most of them 22:16:25 I mean, what sort of emulator do you need 22:16:25 that Nintendo make 22:16:30 scarf, snes? 22:16:31 AnMaster: Gameboys, mostly. 22:16:32 And the DS. 22:16:35 ah 22:16:43 well, I have a ds emulator, it sucks 22:16:46 GBA (gameboy advance) has Pokemon Sapphire which is the main one I've played. 22:16:49 so the gameboy advance one then 22:16:51 And VirtualBoy Advance is pretty much perfect. 22:16:52 handheld RPGs: game boy original, game boy color, gameboy advance, DS for the four generations 22:16:55 Most of the emulators are. 22:17:05 And obtaining a sapphire/ruby rom is as easy as, uh, going to the toilet? 22:17:10 And VirtualBoy Advance is pretty much perfect. <-- yes 22:17:11 there were also console RPGs too, for the N64-like consoles 22:17:23 also, protip: tapping A and B doesn't make the pokeballs work more. 22:17:24 scarf, oh? interesting 22:17:28 alise: ruby/sapphire have a rather obnoxious font 22:17:34 scarf: Really? I never noticed. 22:17:36 alise: but it gives your fingers something to do while you're waiting 22:17:44 sure you don't meen firered and lifegreen? 22:17:55 (they ran out of colours lol.) 22:18:00 that's obnoxious too, but a diffreent way 22:18:02 hehe 22:18:06 and firered and leafgreen are remakes of red and green 22:18:14 so it makes sense to have similar names 22:18:14 yeah 22:18:14 How's the font obnoxious? 22:18:14 so, I seem to lack a collection of such roms 22:18:22 I do have a large snes rom collection 22:18:23 just like heartgold and soulsilver are remakes of gold and silver 22:18:28 http://www.coolrom.com/roms/gba/ 22:18:30 fewer n64 22:18:37 and just one gba 22:18:37 may be bullshit, maybe not 22:18:38 ymmv 22:18:49 alise, I was planning for piratebay 22:19:14 roms are generally on less reputable sites ;) 22:19:20 look, there's a general rule that you don't discuss ROMs on every forum in existence 22:19:24 including, presumably, IRC 22:19:27 ah 22:19:45 scarf, so, lets discuss EEPROM then 22:20:00 clearly it was *that* type of roms we were talking about here 22:20:22 scarf: yes, but I don't really care 22:20:26 oh, I expected people would be jumping on me for either censorship, or calling IRC a forum 22:20:46 obviously I fail at trolling #esoteric, I should go back to trolling ##crawl-dev 22:20:59 (I don't mean to troll it, but looking back on what I say there, I think I'm a troll) 22:21:11 oh ffs, rapidshare style website sucks 22:21:15 now I remember why I prefer torrents 22:21:42 http://lericson.blogg.se/code/2010/february/this-might-seem-silly-git-pull.html 22:22:10 I'd be playing a Pokemon game in Japanese, but... No kanji. 22:22:15 *Makes it harder to read*. 22:22:27 (well. Easier to read. Harder to understand.) 22:23:17 The first rule of ROMs is that you don't discuss ROMs. 22:23:37 alise: I like f4y's comment 22:23:56 even if it's factually incorrect 22:24:10 but especially if it's correct 22:24:15 the other commenters seem divide 22:24:17 *divided 22:24:51 The one about Linus being a Swedish speaker? It's correct. 22:25:56 http://lericson.blogg.se/code/2010/february/this-might-seem-silly-git-pull.html <-- heh 22:27:56 there is a torrent for 10.26 GB of for GBA 22:28:00 that's pretty amazing 22:28:06 scarf, ^ 22:28:07 Gah, there must be some sort of gnome (no offense meant to the desktop environment) on my disk eating files. 22:28:31 AnMaster: I don't get what you're trying to say here, and don't particularly want to either 22:28:41 just the huge size 22:28:50 Well, the GoodGBA set of things not discussed contains 34118 things not discussed, and those modern things not discussed aren't exactly very small. 22:28:56 Memory's cheap, after all. 22:29:29 There's a 10 second speed run. 22:29:49 Its submission explains the input frame by frame. 22:29:53 http://www.tasvideos.org/2025S.html 22:30:06 -!- scarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:30:26 -!- tcsavage has left (?). 22:30:44 That fantasy strategy game or whatever? 22:30:55 Oh, you linked it. Wonder how I missed that. 22:31:13 Yeah, that's the one. 22:31:24 That's amazing. 22:32:02 When your win condition is based solely on the RNG what do you expect? 22:32:25 who cares, it's sweet 22:33:13 Also: colors a skeleton 22:34:05 Yes; I was about to ask whether anyone's interested enough to look at frame 1063 and explain what that's about. 22:34:55 Colors a skeleton! 22:35:03 Colours, the skeleton. 22:35:12 Which frame is it? 22:35:13 how do I watch it -_- 22:35:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfx3QAV64M 22:35:15 Er, as in, what time? 22:35:17 http://www.tasvideos.org/1145M.html 22:35:21 click the watch thingy and choose you toob 22:35:29 lol where is it 22:35:39 Not my link, it's off topic 22:35:40 dunno :D 22:35:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzkrREEtnAI 22:35:52 In 1080p! 22:36:09 what time count is the colour skeleton 22:36:42 i don't get 720p youtube 22:36:47 the little box isn't big enough 22:37:09 fullscreen dood 22:37:14 0:19, I think 22:37:16 those are your two choices 22:37:22 I also think it's obscured by the "this is from tasvideos" text 22:38:00 It should be the frame immediately before the "congratulation message is displayed" one. 22:38:01 i don't get it 22:38:07 No, wait 22:38:13 so how to watch it -_- 22:38:14 I'm looking at a frame 1060-1062 22:38:22 Hitting 1063 will be tricky 22:38:29 MissPiggy: Youtube, linked. 22:38:47 thank you! 22:39:38 MissPiggy: it basically manipulates the RNG through a certain input sequence so that a search for whoever finds him successfully, and does that immediately 22:39:43 alise: Frame 1120 in the actual video. 22:39:46 Bah, I'll just grab the avi 22:39:51 hrrm 22:39:57 dns timeout on tasvideos 22:39:59 how strange 22:40:01 is it the flicker thing before the hooray you won thing 22:40:10 now it works 22:40:20 alise: Yes. 22:40:22 alise: It glitches oddly, then "Hooray, you won". 22:40:23 11:21:11 I am eternally tempted to design a "real" language which "gets everything right". It's a bad temptation. It's better to stick to these weird little languages that intentionally get things "wrong"... 22:40:27 EEEEEHIRDLAAAAAANG 22:40:32 sorry, AAAAAALISELAAAAAAAAANG 22:40:42 The skeleton is on the screen color-swapped for no good reason. 22:40:53 Gah, except that my MPC doesn't work and VLC evidently lacks frame advance. 22:40:53 the "simple" stuff, getting that right is easy 22:40:57 aliselang solves problems you didn't even know you had 22:41:05 Deewiant: mplayer? oh, mpc = windows = no 22:41:57 11:50:36 I could live with them being slightly less than first-class, for efficiency. But still, it's so rare to be able to handle them like normal objects. 22:41:58 Smalltalk 22:42:06 Squeak has totally super-awesome stack objects 22:42:15 Deewiant: Hrm, well... I downloaded the highest-quality MP4 version from youtube, and frame-advanced, and there's one glitched-graphics frame, but I still don't see any special colors on the skeleton. 22:42:21 alise: If getting the simple stuff right is easy, why does it still seem so rare? 22:42:33 fizzie: Glitched-graphics comes a few frames before that. 22:42:34 cpressey: Because most people underrate correctness massively. 22:42:44 pikhq: Oh, okay. Maybe the youtube version has a dropped frame or something, then. 22:42:47 Well, whatever. 22:42:50 fizzie: It's the flicker before the you won thing 22:42:52 the transition 22:42:52 alise: Fair 'nuff. 22:42:53 it's that i think 22:43:03 fizzie: Only one glitched-graphics frame? 22:43:07 cpressey: And most people HIGHLY underrate dependent types!!!!12121 22:43:09 Deewiant: Well, a couple. 22:43:13 There should be 3 according to the description 22:43:23 After which, the colour. 22:43:53 cpressey: I'd avoid IEEE floating point whenever possible, anyway. 22:44:02 Things that break mathematical laws in such ridiculously arbitrary ways upset me. 22:44:08 Deewiant: Oh, okay, there it is. The .avi version has it, the youtube one doesn't. 22:44:09 alise: I agree. 22:44:30 whereas the people that know dependent types highly OVERrate them 22:44:37 Floating point on an Apple ][+ traumatized me over the real number system for the rest of my life. 22:44:44 MissPiggy: Hey, it's not my fault they solve most problems. 22:44:52 reals are spooky 22:44:53 fizzie: If it's the one that colours a whole lot more than just the skeleton, I saw that one. 22:45:03 I was thinking about a system which has |x-y| instead of x-y 22:45:05 Deewiant: Yes, I assume it's that one. 22:45:13 Deewiant: Since the skeleton is coloured too. 22:45:18 would be cool to keep the commutativity rag up for as many operations as possible 22:45:21 Also, yay, VLC /does/ have frame advance. It's just hidden in view->advanced controls. 22:46:16 11:51:53 Hm, maybe Ruby does something like that though -- I wouldn't put it past it. 22:46:16 na 22:46:49 alise: Yeah, they're getting rid of continuations in 1.9. Because they're hard to implement efficiently. 22:46:51 Efficient. 22:46:52 Ruby. 22:46:54 HELLO. 22:47:01 no, they're not 22:47:06 1.9.1 is out, maybe even 1.9.2 22:47:09 and they reinstated continuations 22:47:14 Oh, good. 22:47:16 I think they even work across threads now, which makes them something other than useless 22:47:29 Uh. Wow. 22:48:08 AFAIK, Youtube is ~30fps, while most videos on that site are ~60fps... 22:48:27 cpressey: I know right 22:48:31 How's your http://www.youtube.com/my_speed 22:48:55 "We did not find any video playbacks from your location." 22:48:56 lulz. 22:49:03 :-P 22:49:18 * Sgeo doesn't know Ruby 22:49:36 You are lucky. 22:49:42 It is not a very good language. 22:49:44 hard to implement efficiently?? 22:49:58 Ruby is just like "yeaaa DYNAMIFUCKINGCISM" 22:49:59 what is hard abount it 22:50:01 about* 22:50:14 well maybe it's a matter of the code they already have is fucked 22:50:32 MissPiggy: I think one of the complaints was that VM's like the JVM are all, like, stack-based 22:50:49 MissPiggy: too much dynamiwoopy 22:52:26 Deewiant: "Your average video speed at this location from January 14, 2010 to February 11, 2010 was 2.89 Mbps." That's a bit strange, since the speeds shown by the test video right now are a lot higher. Well, whatever. 22:53:16 Maybe this is just a good time-of-day. 22:53:28 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:45 My graph is very sawtooth-like. 22:54:52 MissPiggy: There are few languages more dynamic. 22:56:40 what's so dynamic about it? 22:58:05 pikhq: false 22:58:10 I love Iverson Brackets. 22:58:45 alise: Than Ruby? 22:58:52 yes. 22:59:02 Kay... 22:59:08 Languages more dynamic? 22:59:28 smalltalk 22:59:31 for one 22:59:37 "Ruby is so dynamic" is mostly marketing. Lots of languages are dynamic. It's not usually a good thing. 22:59:52 Iverson Brackets?! 23:00:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iverson_bracket 23:00:08 [x] = if x then 1 else 0 23:00:10 alise were you reading fortress blog? 23:00:13 [a < b] + [a = b] + [a > b] = 1 23:00:16 alise: Yes, Smalltalk is more dynamic. 23:00:19 sign(x) = [x > 0] - [x < 0] 23:00:22 MissPiggy: i was reading you mentioning it 23:00:29 Smalltalk is also... Better. 23:00:42 Oh, Kronecker delta I've heard of... 23:00:58 Python is plenty dynamic, and I curse it for being so. 23:02:22 Isn't there a Matz quote where he admits Ruby was supposed to be like 'Smalltalk for normal programmers' or something? 23:02:38 Ruby = Matzlisp. 23:02:43 I don't get ruby 23:02:47 like 23:02:49 He just decided to change the syntax at the end of its hodge-podge transformation. 23:02:50 what's the deal with ruby? 23:02:53 you know what I mean? 23:03:03 There's not much to get. Like I said, it's mostly marketing 23:03:04 that's hodge-STAR 23:03:05 " Ruby is a language designed in the following steps: 23:03:05 * take a simple lisp language (like one prior to CL). 23:03:05 * remove macros, s-expression. 23:03:05 * add simple object system (much simpler than CLOS). 23:03:05 * add blocks, inspired by higher order functions. 23:03:05 * add methods found in Smalltalk. 23:03:09 * add functionality found in Perl (in OO way). 23:03:11 So, Ruby was a Lisp originally, in theory. 23:03:13 Let's call it MatzLisp from now on. ;-)" 23:03:15 --matz 23:03:15 remove s-expression o_O 23:03:28 It's like Lisp, but get this: we take out the Lisp. 23:03:35 so basically it's a rubbish version of common lisp 23:03:39 lol 23:03:41 "Have sex with me, women! I am a genius!" 23:03:47 "I invented MATZLISP!" 23:07:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:07:57 I could tell you stories about a certain troll in one of the BSD channels that that just reminded me of, but I'd much rather forget him. 23:08:15 * oerjan hugs alise 23:08:42 thanks. 23:09:13 MissPiggy: S-expressions aren't essential to being Lisp. I' 23:09:30 d say macros and the idea of the code being a list are, though. 23:09:31 just the thought of /removing/ them seems bizarre to me 23:09:44 There exist M-expression Lisps. 23:10:41 hm "We did not find any video playbacks from your location." here too for http://www.youtube.com/my_speed 23:11:03 it also suggests I download google chrome for linux 23:11:09 which is strange 23:11:14 since I'm on FreeBSD atm 23:12:51 alise, ^ 23:13:00 and? 23:13:20 Wow, today's xkcd is bad, even for xkcd. <-- it's for valentine's day. how could you possibly make a joke for valentine's day that _wasn't_ bad? 23:13:22 hm it does get the right small town 23:13:24 I *wish* that were strange. 23:13:25 that's scary 23:13:36 considering I have a highly dynamic ip 23:13:54 you know how perl requires a true statement at the end of modules? 23:13:59 clearly, my language should require a ∎ 23:14:09 alise, a small black box? 23:14:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_proof 23:14:29 oh hard to spot it was that here. 23:14:47 alise, also I'm more used to the outline version 23:15:00 Your mom is more used to the outline version. 23:15:12 that one doesn't even make sense 23:15:20 ∎ 23:15:26 You can use it like a rimshot, see. 23:15:37 hehe 23:18:38 I'd like to see a language require a statement which is neither true nor false at the end of each module. Perhaps an opinion. 23:18:44 Posies are pretty; 23:19:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 23:19:15 cpressey ahaha for "∎" as rimshot 23:20:18 cpressey: Or an infinite loop 23:20:22 You have to prove it's an infinite loop. 23:20:28 The proof must be at least 100 lines long. 23:20:37 Finally, some proper busywork for programmers wanting to slack off! 23:20:46 "WHAT ARE YOU DOING" "Proving" 23:21:06 Huh. DSMV is removing the Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. 23:22:15 I knew aspergers doesn't exist!!!! 23:22:21 night 23:25:23 AnMaster: dammit i was going to comment on why uk is not a schengen member 23:25:47 gone :( 23:27:03 (iiuc it's because of the british commonwealth - they cannot have easy travelling within both zones without all of the EU having the same) 23:27:25 pikhq: So hey, it's slightly more reputable. 23:27:28 Still a bunch of crap, but. 23:28:12 since the schengen zone is essentially uncontrolled internally, but with strict outer borders externally 23:29:02 s/all of the EU/all of the Schengen zone/ 23:30:00 i assume that the british commonwealth travel is somewhat controlled, but much weaker than the outer schengen border 23:30:31 how strict exactly is the outer schengen border? 23:31:00 alise: About as strict as other first-world nations. 23:32:18 iiuc to enter schengen from a place that doesn't have visa exemption to it, you apply to any country within, but _all_ countries are notified and can probably veto it 23:32:38 wow 23:32:42 pretty hard to enter the eu, then 23:32:43 i'm not entirely sure of the specifics though 23:32:50 (probably easiest to enter the uk then the eu from that?) 23:33:41 alise: Can't go from UK to EU unless you can enter the Schengen zone from outside it. 23:34:10 ok then, hard to enter the EU full-stop 23:34:24 letting almost any country in the eu veto any entry is pretty steep though 23:34:27 Is this one of those puzzles, like where farmer Brown has a boat and his pig and a coyote? 23:34:38 Travelling IMMIGRANT 23:34:49 as opposed to a non-travelling immigrant 23:34:58 Also, there's not a veto system in place. 23:35:06 by "probably veto" i mean i'm not in any way sure whether the accepting country _has_ to obey a veto 23:35:21 pikhq: ok 23:35:37 There is a common set of requirements to get a visa, and a single list of people that can't get a visa. 23:36:03 They must also not be a threat to the security or health of a Schengen nation. 23:37:00 is the list public? 23:37:04 i wanna see i wanna see i wanna see 23:37:44 i'd guess not, this list obviously includes suspected terrorists and stuff 23:37:55 but then i've already been wrong in this discussion 23:38:05 bah 23:38:22 2 Jun 2006 ... So a listing on the Schengen immigration 'blacklist' in ... The current criteria for listing a person on the Schengen blacklist are set out ... 23:38:24 wanna see wanna see 23:39:08 The list doesn't appear to be public. 23:39:59 i wonder if you are even notified of being on the list if that's the reason you're denied entry 23:40:16 Being on the list does not necessarily deny you entry. 23:40:27 oh? 23:40:28 It's a list of people officials should look out for. 23:40:39 Farmer Brown and his boat are on one side of a river, along with his pig and his coyote. He can only take one animal across the river at once. If he leaves them alone together, the coyote will eat the pig. 23:40:48 Including people that should be denied entry, people who are wanted in a country in the Schengen zone, and missing persons. 23:40:49 Solution: Take the pig across. Go back. Take the coyote across. 23:41:16 no no no you have to take the coyote first *ducks* 23:41:29 But the problem is that the coyote is on the Schengen blacklist, for obvious reasons. 23:41:44 (hint: the coyote and pig are completely symmetric in this puzzle) 23:42:06 They also report lost or reported stolen *items*. 23:42:18 Yeah, like the boat. 23:42:28 (vehicles, identity documents, firearms, etc.) 23:42:58 The list is updated every 5 minutes. 23:43:01 haskell needs a ShowHTML 23:43:05 i need italics to show this properly :( 23:45:13 alise: Dare I ask? 23:45:39 I've been having impure thoughts about serialization lately 23:46:42 distinguishing literals from free variables in this language 23:47:20 So when you have the coyote and pig on the other side, how can you go back for the ducks? 23:47:22 You could just write out HTML in your show function 23:47:49 Or better - ANSI escape codes! 23:47:57 :D 23:47:59 Then you can make it out on your terminal 23:48:07 Perhaps bolding, or inversion. 23:48:22 fizzie: You get the ducks to swim. 23:50:21 Argh. 23:50:28 Fuck you, old GHC, and your lack of UTF-8. 23:50:34 Print! PRINT! 23:50:51 fizzie: take the coyote back, then the ducks over, then go back and fetch the coyote 23:51:12 oerjan: But won't the ducks eat the pig then? Those things are nasty. 23:51:27 oh in that case there might be a problem 23:51:42 Results 1 - 3 of 3 for "duck eats pig". (0.20 seconds) -- well, maybe it's not so bad. 23:51:52 but then there is anyhow - the ducks might swim over to the pig while you're not watching 23:53:20 Yes, I hear ducks take to water like a duck to water. 23:53:49 hm as long as the ducks are vegetarian this would seem to work. although then you really _do_ need to take the coyote first. 23:54:11 won't work with 3 things the coyote eats, i think 23:55:02 ah of course pig - coyote - duck is isomorphic to the well-known wolf - goat - bag of whatever goats eat 23:55:05 Well, now, as long as you don't let the coyote produce any, ahem, excrement, you've still gotten the things across, and that's what matters. 23:55:44 since it doesn't matter who eats whom, you've failed anyway 23:56:11 On the other hand, if you eat them all, you're the winner. 23:56:32 yeah i was going to suggest you just eat the pig straight away 23:57:09 now we generalize this to an arbitrary graph of -will eat- relationships... 23:57:21 cpressey: ha, that ANSI code idea was brilliant 23:57:34 thanks 23:58:40 that doesn't quite extend to the cannibals and missionaries case though, since that depends on majority 23:59:34 alise: Glad it was helpful.