< 1266969708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1266969731 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266969944 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266970479 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266970960 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1266971999 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1266974651 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266974728 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok guys, i have a crazy brilliant idea or something < 1266974742 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a type of machine code which uses something like LZW compression < 1266974772 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's really really compact < 1266974975 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to handle jumps? < 1266975091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decompression is done JIT < 1266975163 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1266975248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION inserts funny comment about x86 already working like that
< 1266975372 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266975374 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1266975385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi adu < 1266975397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely recalls you from before
< 1266975400 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how goes? < 1266975412 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i was here 2 months ago, and 6 months before that < 1266975434 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing naughty things < 1266975441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet at the time, lots of befunge discussion earlier today < 1266975448 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1266975457 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 <3 Funge-98
< 1266975502 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i honestly don't know why people still make new VMs, Funge-98 is the most universal extensible VM out there < 1266975510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey (the inventor) has recently started coming here again < 1266975515 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1266975640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right gm|lap just said something about compressed machine code < 1266975652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not entirely quiet < 1266975667 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like machine code < 1266975749 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard of VSM? < 1266975806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1266975816 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_System_Model < 1266975866 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been considering making a VM for it, although the name VSM-VM might be confusing... < 1266975939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1266977417 0 :songhead95!~songhead9@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266977429 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1266977449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not the world! < 1266977506 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1266977560 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone seen the language I posted? < 1266977564 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFZOMFG < 1266977679 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1266977749 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Java user signed off < 1266977758 0 :songhead95!~songhead9@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266977764 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1266977771 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1266977781 0 :songhead95!~songhead9@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266977790 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1266977841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. < 1266978107 0 :songhead95!~guest@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266978124 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, my IRC crashed < 1266978135 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irc client < 1266978147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kill songhead95 goodbye, my client didn't < 1266978165 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1266978212 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see what you did there < 1266978263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Looks to me like an IRC noob. < 1266978271 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes sorry. < 1266978275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello there, and welcome to Internet Relay Chat. < 1266978298 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1266978462 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so yes I am a noob < 1266978514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ようこそう、ね。 < 1266978600 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私は歓迎するが、感じがわからない日本語 < 1266978628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1266978634 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I use google translate < 1266978656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh. < 1266978666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, figured. < 1266978690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some exceptionally weird grammar there. < 1266978719 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhmm sometimes I translate something in google translate to like 6 languages, then get it back to english < 1266978749 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually "What is a man? A dirty pile of lies!" turns into "How many? A pile dirty secret!? < 1266978931 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... could google translate be turing-complete? Looks like a job for esolangs! < 1266978962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1266978998 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry if I make stupid jokes. I am a noob to chat alltogether < 1266979007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is okay. < 1266979018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of us were noobs at some point. < 1266979031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stupid jokes are almost a pastime on IRC. < 1266979038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, have you read bash.org?) < 1266979093 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol I haven't before but that is really funny! < 1266979206 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go learn the ways of the chat, and then come back when I am a master. bye :) < 1266979211 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1266979216 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266979221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1266979229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he realises the way to do that is be in chat. < 1266979261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people _do_ try to read the manual first < 1266979306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's a manual? < 1266979315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure wasn't when I IRC'd. < 1266979341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that would be bash.org. i haven't read it myself. < 1266979359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC RFC :P < 1266979362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles half-innocently
< 1266979376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost read that < 1266979393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah, that. < 1266979406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bash.org is a major IRC quote server. < 1266979446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have had a slight suspicion of that fact. < 1266979518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are never any new quotes in the top 100 < 1266979519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1266979535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qdb.us is a modicum better than bash.org < 1266979562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More actively maintained, at least. < 1266979942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Until now, I thought Ocarina was a made up .. word thingy for some game < 1266979950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1266979955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genuine musical instrument. < 1266979968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not invented for the game either, according to wiki < 1266979975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1266980016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octarine is made up, however. < 1266980070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shouldn't have had to Google that
< 1266980073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1266980117 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266980340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266980362 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266980370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames http://qdb.us/140717
< 1266980521 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266980705 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266980722 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.248.104.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266981431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE COMMUNISTS HAVE CONTROL OF GRAND CENTRAL STATION AND THEY WILL BRING THE COMMIE TRAINS TO TOWN! WE MUST WARN THE MAYOR CHOO CHOO" < 1266981995 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266982064 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266982297 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/knows/Zybourne_Clock < 1266982313 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff. Say a direct copy of the ball nearest the cliff is sent to the back of the line of balls and takes the place of the first ball. The formerly first ball becomes the second, the second becomes the third, and the fourth falls off the cliff. Time works the same way. < 1266983170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets confused at 2^O(c^n)
< 1266983475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it means that the _logarithm_ is O(c^n) < 1266983555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not the same as O(2^(c^n)) < 1266983558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still confuzzled
< 1266983575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, 3^(c^n) is the former but not the latter < 1266983621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too tired to think right now
< 1266983640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 3^(c^n) = 2^(logBase 2 3 * c^n), so just a constant multiplier after you take the logarithm < 1266983714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while before, it is an extra power - 3^(c^n) = (2^(c^n))^(logBase 2 3) < 1266983772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't even looking right now
< 1266983828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset.soup.io/asset/0453/8747_0991_800.png < 1266984167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood is on qdb.us! < 1266984258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking! < 1266984265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where?) < 1266984333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/71165 < 1266984466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word of god, that < 1266984614 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1266984915 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got spam mail in base 64. < 1266985148 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266985369 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: more than once < 1266985682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, most IRC denizens are. < 1266985698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for himself
< 1266985709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1266985741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in 2 quotes (and a third that wasn't actually me) < 1266985748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 3 are apparently sucking < 1266985757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/264456 This one's a better quote, anyways. < 1266985758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one non-me is the only one that's not negative < 1266985773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/search?q=Sgeo&order=real_score&sort=desc&limit=25&approved=-1 < 1266985941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/301257 Freaking zzo38. < 1266985963 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1266986015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i searched for myself and got no results, but there i am? < 1266986056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mindboggles at zzo's choice of client
< 1266986222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck even i couldn't vote for that mess, and i seem to be the joke maker < 1266986290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on 0 < 1266986303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even on bash < 1266986498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1266987500 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: 2 hour UPS expired. Shutting down laptop. < 1266987683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1266987797 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1266989402 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266990689 0 :EvanDonovan!~chatzilla@pool-71-174-177-130.bstnma.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266990891 0 :EvanDonovan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202152834] < 1266994155 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1266994275 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1266995055 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1266995226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1266996248 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266997858 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266997953 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266998399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1266998400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1267000130 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267002641 0 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1267003078 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267003219 0 :amca_!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1267003444 0 :amca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :amca < 1267003705 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1267006087 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267008179 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1267012193 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267013622 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang: Each cell in field can hold 32-bit number, and there are 32-bit registers R0 and R1. IP travels on the field and if cell it lands on contains valid instruction, it executes it... < 1267013644 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions: Unconditional turn to cardinal direction, and the same on condition that R0 != 0. < 1267013671 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Rotate R0 left by 1 place. NAND R0 and R1 and store to R0... < 1267013699 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instructions to store/load R0/R1 from one of cardinally adjacent to IP cells. < 1267013732 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus of course print R0 as character, read character to R0 and exit instructions. < 1267015407 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: booork < 1267015916 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267015978 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1267016312 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267017430 0 :Pthing!~pthing@cpc2-pres4-0-0-cust752.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267018481 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to tell OKLOPORK < 1267018482 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRRR < 1267019044 0 :LemmingLemming!~v@81-20-159-197.levira.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1267019100 0 :LemmingLemming!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267019373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1267020225 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1267022601 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1267022632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, uni friend wrote this interpreter thingie in clue, reading the language is like solving a fucking puzzle :P < 1267022657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess that's sort of obvious) < 1267023310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, which language? < 1267023321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue? < 1267023326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, self-interpreter? < 1267023442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? That doesn't seems plausible for http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue < 1267023663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other clue < 1267023663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no not self-interpreter, just an interp for some random language < 1267023663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually the language called random, pun not intended) < 1267023683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267023701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267023713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is either of those on the wiki? < 1267023728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Random ? < 1267023731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that one? < 1267023743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't put any sort of comparison in the language, so he added another function for that for speedness; i just knew it was comparison, but not whether a 1 or a -1; cool thing is with clue, both work < 1267023754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the language he made the interp for < 1267023758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in clue < 1267023760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and in which clue? < 1267023766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't the one on the wiki < 1267023773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, spec for the other clue < 1267023775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue is not on the wiki yet, but it will be once i find the time to make a small spec. < 1267023787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, or do you mean the game Clue? < 1267023794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems you can just pick up the language from the ski interp < 1267023808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, my language clue i've been talking about for like years < 1267023814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267023816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267023831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, maybe another name to not collide with the existing language clue? < 1267023848 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267023852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. i had the name first 2. why not collide? < 1267023863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. for my language, the name makes sense < 1267023872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, btw I think I worked out how to do *W butterfly for bignum in a sensible way < 1267023999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, basically, you use the smallest fixnum that could fit it, rounded up to 32*(2^n) where n is a positive integer. < 1267024020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, positive or 0 < 1267024054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, of course the results in most fixnum interpreters will vary depending on if they use 32-bit or 64-bit cells < 1267024059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the operation is pretty useless for those < 1267024062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-portable < 1267024083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other cell sizes would cause similar problems of course) < 1267024219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, this is actually so cool, you can, to some extent, just change whatever conventions you wish in the stdlib, and chances are programs will still work < 1267024230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in what language? < 1267024245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you can permute any function's parameter list in absolutely any way, and it's guaranteed no function can break < 1267024249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay what the fuck < 1267024264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not, do not, and will not, ever, talk about any language other than clue < 1267024290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh? what about oklotalk? < 1267024295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you talked about some time ago < 1267024299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of other languages < 1267024325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you mean "today"? < 1267024334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so's your face < 1267024334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can permute parameters! < 1267024365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how do you ensure this property? Named parameters? < 1267024379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't actually call a function in clue < 1267024396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that helps < 1267024407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then bf have the same property! < 1267024436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even *have* functions so every property of the functions that don't conflict with not having functions is true there! < 1267024462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you consider the bf instructions the functions, then clearly you can call them, if you consider only functions functions, then yes, bf has the same property, it's just en empty property because there are no functions. < 1267024467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267024494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the property is more interesting when it actually means something < 1267024651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, then how do you use the functions in question in clue? < 1267024654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can < 1267024665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't* call the functions it *seems* to be a fairly useless property < 1267024727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you see the paradigm is you give examples of computation, and you give functions the compiler can use < 1267024728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you do something tricky that actually makes it possible to somehow pass parameters to a function and cause it to execute sometime during the program run < 1267024732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it finds an implementation < 1267024752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can not in any way rely on specifics like the order of parameters < 1267024776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, does it error out if there is more than one possible function matching it? < 1267024799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there would always be unless you define all possible combinations of parameters < 1267024802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as examples < 1267024807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it returns the first one it finds < 1267024814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not specified which one < 1267024835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean by that combination thing < 1267024843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so does it interpolate the values between the examples? < 1267024856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? < 1267024874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just brute-forces definitions until it finds one that fits. < 1267024899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it's not required to do anything more intelligent < 1267024930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, like say: sin(0)->0; sin(pi/4)->1/sqrt(2) sin(pi/2)->1 < 1267024943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes an average if given pi/6 or such < 1267024948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can study my ski interp if you want to learn more. < 1267024959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267024959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would be silly < 1267024965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm, nah you could give an example of what you mean < 1267024972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, weighted average of course < 1267025005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, if a random uni dude could reverse-engineer the language in a few hours, i'm not even sure i'm ever gonna make a spec :) < 1267025039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can show you the append function maybe < 1267025050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "a random" <-- insert joke along the lines if he designed that language < 1267025060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that should be interesting < 1267025062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :append ~ ; car; cdr; cons < 1267025079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means "append uses the functions car, cdr and cons, and its condition function is 'empty'" < 1267025088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1267025109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :append ~ {. [], [1, 2, 3] -> [1, 2, 3] . [], [4] -> [4] } < 1267025113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two examples of the base case < 1267025118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(separated by .) < 1267025128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1267025142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :append ~ {:. [1,2,3],[4,5,6] -> [1,2,3,4,5,6] : [2,3],[4,5,6] -> [2,3,4,5,6] } < 1267025161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example of recursive case, with :. being the call, : being the subcall < 1267025165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267025178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it basically < 1267025187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are there just those in the code or are there more examples you didn't paste here? < 1267025207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole append, you can write a shorter one ofc < 1267025223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how do you call it or whatever later < 1267025223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1267025235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example of how it is used < 1267025253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well say you want a function that appends lists together < 1267025262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have that there don't you? < 1267025272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you might have multiappend ~ ; append; ... < 1267025279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1267025280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1267025288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean an arbitrary amount of lists < 1267025300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]] -> [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1267025302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concat < 1267025305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I mean example of how you cause two specific lists to be appended < 1267025309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to each other < 1267025316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that < 1267025324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, what about from user input then? < 1267025327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1267025335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could write a function that appends two lists and returns the result < 1267025347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i haven't decided yet, probably there's a main function that takes user input as a list < 1267025352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, fine. What would it look like if it was supposed to use that function "append" < 1267025409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, basically: lets say I somehow want to use your append function above to make the language calculate what appending [9,-3,4] to the end of [27,22,3] is < 1267025426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, getting the result [27,22,3,9,-3,4] < 1267025443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, using your above append function of course :) < 1267025448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm wondering about < 1267025472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this should work < 1267025472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiappend ~ {. [] -> [] } < 1267025475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiappend ~ {:. [[1,2], [3,4]] -> [1,2,3,4] : [[3,4]] -> [3,4] < 1267025475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. [[],[1],[]] -> [1] : [[1],[]] -> [1]} < 1267025475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiappend ~ ; append; cons; car; cdr < 1267025513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, and where do the data I provided go into that? :) < 1267025516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd call the compiled function append, prolly < 1267025533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, eh? < 1267025538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put data into the functions by calling the python functions the compiler returns. < 1267025543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1267025545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really a non-issue. < 1267025604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so it would work for that example above? It would be able to figure it out? Even using lists of different lengths too? Like appending to [27,22,3,472,283,172,3872] instead of that one above? < 1267025620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that should work for all lists of lists. < 1267025627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can test it ofc < 1267025648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err the original append function you gave doesn't take a list of list does it? < 1267025653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes two lists it seems < 1267025662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm confused < 1267025678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also how does the parameter order to it not matter, that I'm interested in too < 1267025755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,2,3],[2,3],[3]] --> [1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 3] < 1267025759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to works < 1267025761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work < 1267025778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had one error, the function that tests if a list is empty is called "empty", not "empty?" < 1267025794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well consider cons < 1267025810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just give cons as a helper function, "you can use this function in any way, if you find it necessary" < 1267025814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you swap the args to cons < 1267025815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267025824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the compiler will just use it, but swap the arguments. < 1267025836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1267025853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, in some cases it might find some other function first, because swapping the args made it harder for it to find the correct implementation < 1267025877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I mean, append([4,5,6],[1,2,3]) seems like it should give a different result than append([1,2,3],[4,5,6]) < 1267025878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sofar no function has bee incorrectly implemented, all errors have been mine < 1267025893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually i don't think i've made any errors < 1267025900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well sure < 1267025923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see < 1267025926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i had append in a program < 1267025930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i reversed its arguments < 1267025940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all functions that use append would just be compiled with the new order of arguments < 1267025947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1267025956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they would be wrong, so the compiler would have to reverse them. < 1267025964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1267025983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I guess compiling can take quite a bit? < 1267025993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for fairly simple functions < 1267025994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.13 seconds to compile the multiappend thing < 1267026000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 seconds to compile my ski interpreter < 1267026006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second to compile the random interpreter < 1267026009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267026018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, a fuckload of time for even simple tasks < 1267026034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a crappy python hack < 1267026037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp < 1267026042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes considered how long it would take for most compilers < 1267026055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly you might beat g++ but that is all ;) < 1267026072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is the source code for the interpreter online? < 1267026076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1267026082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter/compiler I guess < 1267026088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maaaybe i could put it up < 1267026119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you should probably wait until you wrote a rough spec so you don't get everyone asking you to explain how it works ;) < 1267026313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll put the ski interp online too, you can just read that < 1267026322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for teh idiomatic clueness < 1267026346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, I suck at ski.. < 1267026363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i just more than doubled all compilation times by adding a tiny fix :) < 1267026393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, always keep falling when skiing downhill. I'm reasonably okay at it on mostly flat ground < 1267026405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it can call a function with many copies of the same objec < 1267026405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1267026405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flat is nicer < 1267026412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also called cross-country < 1267026416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep < 1267026425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't fall all the time there < 1267026451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm scared of heights, which doesn't really help avoiding falling when going downhill < 1267026483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, many of the helper functions i wrote are pretty basic and not ski-specific < 1267026483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you fall? < 1267026484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move your legs man < 1267026506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err? I said when going downhill < 1267026509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when cross country < 1267026521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1267026550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still what? < 1267026603 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267026694 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267026698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi scarf < 1267026774 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267027128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you open rar? < 1267027171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.rar < 1267027186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make a spec and put it on esolang during march, hopefully < 1267027298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming there won't be a massive surge of programs making that a de facto standard or anything. < 1267027375 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1267027389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLUE INTERPRETER NOW ONLINE SOURCE SORT OF OPEN TOO. < 1267027397 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1267027407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.rar < 1267027435 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ooh < 1267027441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i mentioned, someone reverse-engineered the ski-interp and wrote a random interp, so i'm assuming anyone who wants to play can just do that as well. < 1267027461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random, again, being the language random on esolang < 1267027503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser is not very good, it works pretty well as long as you don't make any errors, but doesn't really help you locate them. < 1267027520 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at that SKI < 1267027550 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything significant at all in the identifier names? or are they just compared for equality? < 1267027575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compared for equality < 1267027599 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and are presumably builtins? < 1267027604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might make identifier name matching fuzzy, because i typo them a lot and forget whether i had a "?" in the end, and they are always pretty long. < 1267027607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267027615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff.py contains a list of builtins < 1267027616 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cons/car/cdr are library functions? < 1267027630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are just builtins < 1267027635 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1267027636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are builtins too < 1267027640 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do some have angle brackets, and others not? < 1267027650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't have angle brackets? < 1267027656 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons, car, cdr < 1267027658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1267027660 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas and do < 1267027661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see < 1267027669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every function needs a "cond", which is < 1267027674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just have multiple helper lists < 1267027691 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, angle brackets mean that that function's a good one to try as a condition < 1267027711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to invent branfuck < 1267027712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and in fact it is what *will be* used as a condition < 1267027712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b5v3v/yo_just_print_like_hello_world_bro/c0l4545 < 1267027719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's something you could actually drop from the language < 1267027719 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to figure out how more-than-3 works < 1267027725 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "more than 3" < 1267027728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who made the random interp just used there < 1267027732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all functions < 1267027773 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, #0 and #1 refer to particular sorts of recursion? < 1267027780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, they are constants :) < 1267027787 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, just like in INTERCAL < 1267027800 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen something which has so much INTERCAL inspiration in the syntax and yet looks so different < 1267027807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267027826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty different from everything, afaik. < 1267027838 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if more than 3 is supposed to work on arbitrary integers, I don't have a clue how it works < 1267027846 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's only meant to work on 0..5, it's obvious < 1267027847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well probably just on naturals < 1267027854 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1267027864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well see < 1267027865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 3 ~ {. 4 -> 1 < 1267027865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. 5 -> 1 } < 1267027871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means 4 and 5 return 1 < 1267027877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have to return 1 using the same rule < 1267027881 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, "if it's 0, 1, 2, or 3, return 0, otherwise return 1" is the function you're trying to produce < 1267027893 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I get it < 1267027893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it will have to make that the "default branch" and make it return the constant 1 < 1267027906 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can only test for one value in each conditional < 1267027914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be one default branch < 1267027916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267027946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it combines parameters somehow, and puts the result in the function, result is used to differentiate between branches, the {...} things < 1267027986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only one of them contains multiple values, then that'll be the default branch < 1267028014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if there are multiple examples in some branch, they all have to return the same result with cond, except for the default branch < 1267028020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if there's one) < 1267028041 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I keep using the wrong mouse button < 1267028058 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left mouse button on this mouse has broken (it's ignoring about 2/3 of the clicks I use), so I swapped the buttons < 1267028082 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I keep trying to use the right mouse button to right-click, although I'm getting good for using it to left-click < 1267028094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just ask a 4-dimensional dude to swap your left and right? < 1267028131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c, i c < 1267028153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw tell me if you touch clue, i actually like reading programs in it < 1267028165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the first language ever with that property ;) < 1267028222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably add comments to the language... < 1267028248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could say "the following is a comment ~ ..." < 1267028262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait that won't work < 1267028263 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: Google bought Youtube /just/ for leverage in getting rid of IE6 < 1267028278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go for a bit -> < 1267028282 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: use the comment as an identifier name < 1267028285 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give it a trivial definition < 1267028311 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this is a comment, isn't this program great? ~ { . 0 -> 0 } < 1267028318 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need to repeat it again on the next line < 1267028337 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be possible to put nothing before a ~ in order to effectively get a repeat of the previous identifier < 1267028441 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267028737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That sounds as reasonable as anything, given that butterfly seems inherently a fixed-size operation. < 1267028775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1267028817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well anyway www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.rar <-- downloaded < 1267028818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually the name of an identifier can contain arbitrarily many \n's < 1267028837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespaces are just stripped into " "'s < 1267028852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "\n \t\n\n \n" -> " " < 1267028870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah the repetition thing would be nice < 1267028892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser isn't very complete < 1267028938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standards for parsers in the realm of esolang implementation are... pretty low, so i wouldn't worry about it. (I saw ALPACA's parser again the other day. Eeesh.) < 1267028961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what about the one of ick? < 1267028979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked pretty okay considering the language it is supposed to parse iirc < 1267028994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is this is so simple to parse you can do it as crappily as you want, and i wanted to watch scrubs while is coded, so... < 1267029002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that hack because you need infinite lookahead for some construct in intercal < 1267029004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i coded < 1267029024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it is just fairly complex lex and yacc iirc < 1267029046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, right? < 1267029051 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, the lex and yacc are tied into each other, although not quite as much as in gcc < 1267029068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: so did you master the language already? :) < 1267029072 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not yet < 1267029082 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have work to do, even though I'm on a non-work connection < 1267029089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr < 1267029090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, well... doesn't the yacc part depend on what output exactly the lex part produces in all cases? < 1267029102 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but also vice versa < 1267029104 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132132.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267029119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just what other people do is always more interesting than the things i do myself, when it comes to my languages < 1267029121 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mentioned as being necessary sometimes in the lex/yacc documentation, but which seems silly to anyone who knows about parsers < 1267029130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, well you could say that also exists, because if you change the lex part without changing the yacc part the whole thing might break < 1267029148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you meant in some other way? < 1267029184 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, the actual tokens produced depend on the current state of the parser < 1267029195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, non-work connection? Public wlan? Finally have internet at home? < 1267029204 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a friend's house < 1267029205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, yeargh < 1267029216 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been connecting from here for ages, just most people weren't paying attention < 1267029231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, that means it is context dependant in some rather strange way doesn't it? < 1267029235 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1267029240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, you have a cloak though < 1267029242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I know? < 1267029250 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, whether a paren-equivalent is opening or closing is context-dependant < 1267029257 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was doing this from well before I was cloaked < 1267029278 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267029281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, the reverse dns with something like bham in one part of it? < 1267029285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was uni < 1267029288 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is uni < 1267029298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burning ham < 1267029299 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one's virgin media < 1267029308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember that one < 1267029324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1267029361 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to the Phorm website
< 1267029372 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm effectively polling it by hand to see if and when they decide to turn it on for virgin media < 1267029383 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a distaster, but not one that people notice right away < 1267029387 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disaster < 1267029429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to add io to clue so i can make an irc bot < 1267029520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just something like >> after the output of a function to also output bytes or << after the input of a function to read bytes < 1267029575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world! ~ {. 0 -> 0 >> [72, 101, 108, 108, 111, 44, 32, 119, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33] } < 1267029622 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, makes sense < 1267029639 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you need to explicitly specify >> [] for other cases if you specify >> anywhere, or would that be assumed? < 1267029733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh err < 1267029735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumed < 1267029743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what is Phorm? < 1267029768 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, it's a targeted advertising service < 1267029774 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the controversial bit is the amazing way it operates < 1267029783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh injection thingy < 1267029784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267029785 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically involves multiple redirects for every single http request you make ever < 1267029806 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MITMing every website on the internet to inject cookies < 1267029812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, that sounds like it shouldn't be legal for various reasons. < 1267029815 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't trigger on https, if you were wondering) < 1267029823 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, some people think it isn't < 1267029824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net neutrality comes to mind amongst other things < 1267029834 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't actually dared turn the thing on yet; there's meant to be an opt-out < 1267029851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, so I assume it will be taken to court as soon as it is turned on < 1267029866 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, someone will probably try < 1267029872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"try"? < 1267029878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, more interesting: echo n ~ {:. 5 <<[7] -> _ >>[7] : 4 -> _ } < 1267029900 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they might not be able to get the funding < 1267029904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, echo n ~ {. 0 -> _ } < 1267029925 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the underscore mean again? < 1267029932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's new < 1267029948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought it might be nice to be able to say the return value doesn't matter < 1267029952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have IO < 1267029964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, funding? How so? After all you don't need funding in case the police catch a thief that stole something from you. < 1267029964 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's a RealWorld < 1267029974 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, you mean a criminal rather than civil case? < 1267029984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ah right forgot that difference < 1267029984 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to persuade the Crown Prosecution Service to take it < 1267029998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: actually it's just the empty list, except you don't have to put an explicit #[] in the helper list < 1267030006 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1267030143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm okay i have sort of a problem < 1267030162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if <<[5,6] is an example, "if you get bytes 5 and 6 as input, ..." < 1267030162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1267030167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many should it read? < 1267030204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always two bytes, always till eof, always two, unless there are other examples with different lengths, in which case till eof? < 1267030222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two in the case of an example of length 2) < 1267030238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in any case maybe IO isn't the first thing i should add < 1267030246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is that for stdin? < 1267030253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i would definitely like to see pong in this. < 1267030258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be so outta character < 1267030263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IO < 1267030266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267030268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah << is input < 1267030274 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267030297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, line buffered is probably sanest for an esolang < 1267030304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I guess whole line makes most sense < 1267030307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... i hate line buffered :-( < 1267030328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well then, I can't work out sane semantics for it < 1267030688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go -> < 1267030892 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's up with Yahoo mail, it seems < 1267030910 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't access the site at all in Firefox (I just get errors), and w3m goes into an infinite META REFRESH loop after logging in < 1267030939 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the page has a META REFRESH with a timeout of 0 on, and w3m is honouring it for some reason < 1267031072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1267031127 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be a problem with the connection itself (tried a different computer on the same router) < 1267031128 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267031130 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the DNS is fine < 1267031160 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, working again now < 1267031162 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was suspicious < 1267031454 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I just typed my root password in another channel by mistake < 1267031459 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sudo-root < 1267031564 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267031620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, so change the password now < 1267031626 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, don't worry < 1267031643 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I changed it even before I typed it, somehow < 1267031652 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I typed the old password in-channel rather than the new one < 1267031716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267031809 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one place left to change it; do you know how to change the master password for the KDE password wallet? < 1267031823 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I care too much, because there's only one password /in/ that wallet and it's a publically-available one anyway < 1267031839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a publically-available password? < 1267031840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1267031858 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in this case, as an anti-spam measure < 1267031864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267031872 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the password and the place you have to enter it are in two completely separate places < 1267031884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what is it for? < 1267031894 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guarding a file-upload server < 1267031900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267031906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public one? < 1267031936 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of; public, but very specific purpose < 1267031942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1267031951 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for uploading Enigma levels < 1267031964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267032039 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1267032057 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that enigma game < 1267032108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miss piggeh < 1267032153 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up hi augur < 1267032177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267032192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatd i do D: < 1267032203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. SVG defines colours like "mediumspringgreen" < 1267032204 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: when the next version comes out, you'll find many levels by me < 1267032211 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf oh cool! what sort of levels? < 1267032225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that one is rgb( 0, 250, 154) ) < 1267032225 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly intelligence levels (as in, traditional puzzle-style) < 1267032228 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's a turing machine in enigma now..... < 1267032231 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are all sorts < 1267032231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/types.html#ColorKeywords < 1267032235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a massive list < 1267032236 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I didn't add a turing machine < 1267032240 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf well that's exciting! when does it come out? < 1267032247 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: no release date yet, but they're getting closer < 1267032258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T_T < 1267032262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away crying
< 1267032266 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in a string freeze for internationalisation at the moment < 1267032278 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they're like a typical open source project, that's getting near a release < 1267032301 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, it's a rather less strict sort of string freeze than typically, though < 1267032303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Darn, I missed that; I just read the bit about having to support the CSS names < 1267032324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I don't know if it supports those embedded in css in the svg < 1267032330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or just in the svg directly < 1267032383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a '#' immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters. The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example, #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This ensures that white (#ffffff) can be specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies on < 1267032383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the color depth of the display." < 1267032384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267032396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"removes any dependencies on the color depth of the display"? < 1267032396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably in the SVG directly only < 1267032402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean exactly < 1267032402 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267032403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how < 1267032448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the term "string freeze" for some reason. Sounds like it should be a kind of candy. < 1267032449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, CSS3 seems to have these extra ones < 1267032456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is still a draft iirc < 1267032458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/ < 1267032464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also it says draft there < 1267032495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so yeah you can't use those portably yet in CSS < 1267032513 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1267032571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has homework he needs to do NOW
< 1267032576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, go do it then < 1267032578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1267032609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway most of those named colours would expand rather than save space < 1267032645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow #fffafa < 1267032648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sure... < 1267032670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow varies widely and is in sunshine definitely extremely white < 1267032674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more white than that < 1267032698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that was interesting < 1267032704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Homework time < 1267032718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text I actually selected and copied was: "snow #FFFAFA" < 1267032727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow it was lower cased when pasting < 1267032734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses firebug on that thing
< 1267032750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :table.x11colortable td.c { < 1267032750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text-transform:uppercase; < 1267032750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1267032751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267032760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1267032766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why wasn't it copied that way < 1267033045 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267033046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1267033071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1267033079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it < 1267033109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text-transform is just how to display it, of course it should copy the text itself < 1267033147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a firefox bug there < 1267033167 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267033169 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267033214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand I don't know if the spec says it should not be processed when copied < 1267033224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not a bug. < 1267033229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does exactly what I'd expect. < 1267033229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it isn't? < 1267033236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why does it make sense < 1267033236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what I said it should. < 1267033241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not copy the text transform < 1267033241 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267033264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's just a style note on how to display it < 1267033269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the text < 1267033269 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267033280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267033575 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267033578 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267033589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you know that mycology's TURT test is broken right? < 1267033596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267033596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267033596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267033614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if it wasn't for svg you couldn't even be sure the circles were there < 1267033618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine it rendered to bmp < 1267033950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I thought it was white background with two dots < 1267033961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's the same bug in CCBI's colour stuff ;-) < 1267033968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I don't think the error is on my side < 1267033969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I seem to recall that !Befunge rendered it as such < 1267033983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't have !befunge around to test with < 1267034021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also I seem to recall that when I first implemented TURT in cfunge and found that the ccbi implementation was completely broken, it didn't ever use the bg colour < 1267034028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does nowdays but still... < 1267034062 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it did < 1267034070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, back then? No < 1267034074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall one bug being that it didn't "clear paper with colour", it just reset the bg colour < 1267034083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, reset it to what? < 1267034089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what was requested < 1267034090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267034092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267034095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just didn't overwrite the dots and paths etc < 1267034148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think efunge currently has the least buggy turtle implementation < 1267034156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that I know of < 1267034262 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I can not read python at all < 1267034282 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at clue impl. and I am just like HUH?? < 1267034330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, it is somewhat compact python < 1267034335 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267034343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai < 1267034345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, and uncommonly it uses lambda < 1267034362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for python that isn't quite as common normally as it is in that file < 1267034372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for map < 1267034399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, the key to reading it is realising that indention defines the block < 1267034422 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1267034429 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that much python but that's all < 1267034430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, no {} or comma-vs-period or such < 1267034466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, also python's OOP seems used in there < 1267034470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation lacks abstraction in maaaany places, because most of the thing was coded while watching scrubs < 1267034495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, scrubs? < 1267034505 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267034506 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is a bit scary < 1267034518 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of writing code that does miracles while not even looking < 1267034537 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267034571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miss piggehhh < 1267034727 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267034730 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267035748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? Would you consider it allowed for FPDP/FPSP instructions to reflect on NaN and +/-inf? < 1267035766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all the spec doesn't define it to use IEEE semantics iirc < 1267035809 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the spec says something like "A (a b -- n) add fp numbers" < 1267035824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but that doesn't define it to be IEEE floating point < 1267035832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that was exactly my point < 1267035847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like all of Mike's, there is practically no spec < 1267035850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also does FPDP require two cells per value? I don't remember < 1267035877 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how Mycology will react to reflection on those though < 1267035961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and FPDP spec doesn't say it has to be two cells < 1267036017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not, that's just an implementation detail for 32-bit funges < 1267036030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Who assume "double precision" = "64-bit") < 1267036088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it uses the term "double precision" does sort of imply IEEE 754 semantics though, since double is an IEEE 754-1985 term < 1267036400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Alternatively, you could argue that it's supposed to use the platform's "standard" Fortran compiler's floating point formants, since "double" is also a FORTRAN term. < 1267036429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267036435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh < 1267036507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a silly name; "double what?" (Double the size of single, of course, but *still*...) < 1267036539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd like a double bacon cheeseburger, please, with double interpreted as from IEEE 754-1985" < 1267036545 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267036564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll give you a burger with 64 discrete bits of bacon. < 1267036584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which one is the sign bacon. < 1267036742 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\u0082"); < 1267036754 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1267036763 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\u00c0"); < 1267036766 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :À < 1267036770 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\u00c8"); < 1267036771 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :È < 1267036777 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\u00a8"); < 1267036778 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¨ < 1267036787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IEEE 754-2008 calls it binary64, which is a bit less silly. < 1267036880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but on the other hand a "binary64 bacon cheeseburger" is more silly. < 1267036923 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, why does unicodesnowmanforyou.com use javascript? < 1267036926 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to work just as well without < 1267036960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the scripts there are just google-analytics code. < 1267037281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should encode it as tagged tuple BCD encoded 66 bit floating point (why? because 65 bits would make the single format 32.5 bits, which is quite hard to implement) < 1267037288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt mycology would like that < 1267037318 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1267037335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, because it would be a DS9K implementation < 1267037337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh < 1267037403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, or did you mean "why wouldn't mycology like that"? < 1267037420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would not have inf or NaN but would reflect on those to begin with < 1267037442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck technically the spec would allow me to change to any delta for those < 1267037537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because the spec doesn't say you're not allowed to do something doesn't mean you should do it ;-P < 1267037601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true. Still if I implemented it in efunge it will be as opaque values on stack and reflect on nan/inf < 1267037622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do something like the "union with integer" trick, sure < 1267037627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think I should < 1267037642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it encourages bad programming practise in programs using FPSP/FPDP < 1267037644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, funny motd from the shell server, when you interpret (like I did) the second part as a consequence of the first: < 1267037644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Matlab Parallel Computing Toolbox has been installed for Matlab R2009b (latest version, run with 'matlab') and runs on any cluster machine or 64-bit Linux workstation. Scanning and sending documents from photocopier in corridor B works now." < 1267037648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hard coding constants < 1267037652 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1267037654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unreliable < 1267037660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depend on endianness and various stuff < 1267037666 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1267037686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1267037751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I write all my scanning software in matlab. < 1267037880 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine an object balancing a little as possible in four dimensions < 1267037893 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in 2d you have something halfway off a cliff < 1267037916 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in 3d you have something 1/2 off a corner in both directions < 1267037923 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's on by only 1/4 < 1267037944 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine things balancing on a point < 1267037947 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 4d you have something 1/6 or 1/8 off an object < 1267037951 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a line, a plane, a cube.... < 1267037960 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267037962 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done that < 1267037979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, if only 1/4 of the surface area of a book is supported by a table under it... well, that doesn't sound balanced to me... < 1267037983 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made this earlier for someone else: http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5504/lkjsdkf.png < 1267037985 0 :Pthing!~pthing@cpc2-pres4-0-0-cust752.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267037988 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it is < 1267038000 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267038006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: If the table is round with a hole in the middle, and the book's edges are all supported by the ring of the table, then it 's perfectly balanced :P < 1267038029 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: I'm dealing with solid objects < 1267038043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh great, now tables with holes in them are gaseous. < 1267038056 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant convex < 1267038057 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267038060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably break from lunch before these unit tests drive me crazy. < 1267038063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, that puck would not stay on the table, 1/4 supported. < 1267038065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for lunch, even < 1267038076 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: it would approach 1/4 < 1267038087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, 1/4 is the tipping point you're saying. < 1267038091 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267038099 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or right behind it < 1267038145 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't imaging that king of interaction on 4D < 1267038148 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine* < 1267038153 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind* < 1267038161 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in* < 1267038173 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just tried it with a pad of paper, and, yeah, I guess 1/4 is the approachable value for tipping. < 1267038183 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1267038233 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the approachable value in 4D is 1/6 or 1/8 < 1267038304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 1/8 < 1267038325 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think so too < 1267038333 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the interaction is happening on a 3D surface < 1267038450 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could either be 1/2^surfacedimensions or 1/(dimension-1)^dimension < 1267038456 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1267038470 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dimension < 1267038481 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume without testing that those are the same? < 1267039198 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 1/8 too (1/2^d, where d is number of dimensions in contact surface). < 1267039262 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I meant 1/d*2 - d being the contact surface's scope < 1267039314 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than 1/(dm-2)^dm < 1267040099 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267040409 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267040409 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267040416 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1267040816 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1267041080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? < 1267041095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tipping point? < 1267041146 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267041163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh picture was relevant < 1267041178 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1267041225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does "approaches 1/4" mean < 1267041253 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can approach 1/4 before I woudln't know what happens between falling and staying on < 1267041258 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't* < 1267041267 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approach 1/4 in what sense? < 1267041274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what approaches 1/4? < 1267041274 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contact < 1267041284 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contact area < 1267041285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surface area of the object? < 1267041291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in contact with the table < 1267041297 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267041309 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface in contact must be 2D < 1267041318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because the centre of gravity of the object must go off the table if anything less than 1/4 of the surface area is supported < 1267041329 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267041343 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're assuming an object like a perfectly balanced disk < 1267041344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface in contact must be 2d? < 1267041346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... < 1267041350 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, uniform density < 1267041360 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what if the object is, say, a really large disc, with a relatively small hole in the middle that's still larger than the table, with a thin beam across the middle that lies on the table? < 1267041371 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, the centre of gravity is over the table even though most of the object isn't < 1267041402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we assume the table is what shape? < 1267041402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: That object is not uniform density, then, I think < 1267041405 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have a hold in the middle latger than the table? < 1267041410 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it is, but not convex < 1267041411 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hole* < 1267041420 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: ooh, good point, that isn't needed < 1267041427 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just have a disc larger than the table < 1267041438 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect that the missing assumption is that the table is infinitely large < 1267041446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yes. < 1267041455 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that the table is larger than the object, actually < 1267041456 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that the object fits entirely on the table < 1267041459 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that sort of assumption < 1267041466 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267041483 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of a very specific kind of case; like the plate I have on the corner right here < 1267041501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the edge of the table a (d-2)-dimensional line? < 1267041526 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter as long as the table is flat and its coners are square < 1267041530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then obviously 1/2 of the object must be supported < 1267041544 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm on the corner, not the edge < 1267041570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh. < 1267041573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i get the picture < 1267041591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see < 1267041600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I'm also assuming a 90 degree corner. < 1267041619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 60 degree corner, well I'm not sure what fraction has to be supported, but it's less than 1/4. < 1267041622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it's obviously 1/8 in four dimensions < 1267041622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be worked out < 1267041682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface is a ball one eight of which must be inside the cube < 1267041692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eighththth < 1267041708 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1/8 or 1/6 < 1267041721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really visualize 5 dimensions, but it clearly grows exponentially < 1267041722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/8 < 1267041723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, if it's a disc, and a 60 deg corner, then 1/6. I was still thinking "book" though. < 1267041730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Uh, if only 1/4 of the surface area of a book is supported by a table under it... well, that doesn't sound balanced to me... <-- you could have it balanced on a point in the middle. can't you? < 1267041733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1267041734 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of the 4D case, though < 1267041739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means almost none of it is supported < 1267041744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it is balanced < 1267041750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, right? < 1267041751 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not none < 1267041751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in four dimensions, 1/8 < 1267041753 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a singularity < 1267041766 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... < 1267041769 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, actually < 1267041774 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call the 1/4 a singularity < 1267041794 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, infinitely before 1/4 < 1267041803 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell...? < 1267041809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limit, maybe < 1267041820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realize this is just whether the center is on the surface? < 1267041832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, well I mentioned that anyway < 1267041848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 1/(2^(d-1)) thing just comes from not just having the point, but a certain sort of cube around it < 1267041850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, am I not right about the balance in middle thing? < 1267041872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the other assumption: table is larger than object < 1267041898 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, objects fits entirely on table < 1267041907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267041922 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5504/lkjsdkf.png < 1267041930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what if the object is heavier on one side < 1267041935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it could stick out more < 1267041936 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uniform density < 1267041940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that too < 1267041946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't clearly stated at the beginning! < 1267041950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cpressey, what if we make the problem even more boring < 1267041953 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well* :D < 1267041959 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267041961 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in your scrollback and/or the log, just not at the beginning < 1267041968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, also what if we don't have a equal height object < 1267041969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say < 1267041971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cone < 1267041979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was to generalize what AnMaster said) < 1267041982 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the more interesting the problem, the more boring the result :) < 1267041983 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to have infinite rotational symmetry < 1267041983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then couldn't it stick out more than half < 1267041987 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it must be concave < 1267041987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a flat cone of course < 1267041992 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1267041993 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convex < 1267041995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, and a flat top? < 1267042004 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :D < 1267042007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i prefer "the more complicated the problem, ..." < 1267042009 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1267042022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, does it need a flat top or not? < 1267042026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a flat bottom < 1267042030 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopl, I take issues and I simplify parts of them to try to disprove things < 1267042037 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a 2D bottom < 1267042045 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267042045 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polgonal bottom < 1267042047 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsdkjasd < 1267042051 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polygonal bottom < 1267042066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, so not a perfect circle? < 1267042072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that picture < 1267042083 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you need to ignore the "infinite number or sides" idea or a polygon < 1267042088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267042096 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't need infinite rotational symmetry, it needs 90 degree rotational symmetry < 1267042107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, well this is boring. Too specific problem < 1267042117 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1267042127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which agrees with oklopol's correction of cpressey's suggestion < 1267042134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, I don't know the 4D thing either < 1267042140 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1267042148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, but do a drawing in 5D for me :) < 1267042167 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3928/sagitor.png < 1267042187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1267042193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4d is pretty easy to visualize, because you just need to look at a 3d-segment < 1267042201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the 4d case is < 1267042212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah I have seen a 4D screensaver. Confusing! < 1267042214 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the collision is 3D < 1267042220 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't stand :( < 1267042228 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand -> deal with < 1267042279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, hm. isn't it basically that one specific point needs to be supported < 1267042290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the name of it is < 1267042294 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the object must be smaller than the static one < 1267042300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "center of gravity" < 1267042304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, right < 1267042310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could only remember the Swedish word < 1267042312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not that hard to visualize the 3d projection of a 4d object, and the screensaver would project it even further < 1267042316 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the static one should be analogous to a rectangle < 1267042331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, was some hypercube turning iirc < 1267042336 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopl: I can deal with 4D, but not collision inside of it. < 1267042343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also "visualize" 4d using color and density etc < 1267042350 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267042354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how's that confusing < 1267042360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, anyway yes I think it basically needs center of gravity to be supported < 1267042369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not everyone finds 4D easy to think in! < 1267042374 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I'm wondering, though. < 1267042374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not everyone is like you < 1267042376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay? < 1267042386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, well then what exactly are you asking? < 1267042402 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I described it enough < 1267042403 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1267042405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean it's just a 2d projection of the movement < 1267042412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, how much of the thing needs to be supported < 1267042425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, well "whatever is enough to cover the center of gravity" is my answer < 1267042440 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fairly easy to generalize the concept of center of gravity of a uniform-density, symmetrical object, to /n/ dimensions. < 1267042451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes quite < 1267042454 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mean, it's the geometric center. < 1267042498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the question is, do we need a vector space, or could we also do it for measurable metric spaces? < 1267042523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmaybe. < 1267042561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point is central if it's close to all the other points, and we can measure the sets of points at distance > d, so we can make this precise < 1267042565 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we apparently don't find 4D difficult to visualize :) < 1267042573 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult *enough*, I mean < 1267042613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 4d is for kids < 1267042655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so do it in 93d < 1267042662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1267042674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anything at all < 1267042682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, btw what do you need this for? < 1267042734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's see, in n dimensions, we'd take the z0 such that the integral of (z - z0)^(smth) over the object is as small as possible? < 1267042742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's at least some sort of center < 1267042766 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just an idea < 1267042776 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what the fraction would be for the fourth dimension < 1267042780 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it were 1/6 or 1/8 < 1267042811 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the specific case of a shape with a convex, 2d base and 90 degree rotational symmetry along its vertical access < 1267042816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya, now figure it out for 1d (I'm not even sure what it would mean there) < 1267042824 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d is 1 < 1267042851 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have an object rotate in 1 dimension < 1267042859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1267042875 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 < 1267042882 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would make sense that it's 1/8 < 1267042903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sequence is 1/2^n as mentioned < 1267043006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface touching the table is (d-1)-dimensional, consider the unit ball in d-1 dimensions, the table surface will be {(x1,...,xn) | xi > 0 for all i}, that is, the infinite cube spanned by the positive axes. < 1267043019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have d-1 axes, and we take half of each < 1267043030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> 1/2^(d-1) < 1267043062 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier to use the analog of a cyninder to the dimension < 1267043069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1267043072 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the analog of a sphere < 1267043074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, unit ball as in unit circle? < 1267043078 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5504/lkjsdkf.png < 1267043082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be unit sphere? < 1267043084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disc is uniform, so we just need to consider the surface touching the table < 1267043087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1267043089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a ball < 1267043098 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use a sphere, the surface would be a singularity < 1267043101 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... you know < 1267043132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: it's a balance tipping point, you're dealing with a limit anyway. < 1267043143 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267043149 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you deal with a limit and a singularity ,then what? < 1267043157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not a unit sphere. consider the concrete dimensions: in 2d we have a line as the unit ball of d-1 dimensions, in 3d, we have a 2d disc, in 4d, we have a normal 3d ball < 1267043159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1267043174 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1267043194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"singularity" is just another way to say "limit", isn't it? < 1267043199 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267043209 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a singularity uses a limit to describe itself < 1267043217 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the "singularity" in this sphere, then? < 1267043225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: there's no "analog of sphere" or "analog of cylinder", by a d-1 dimensional ball i mean the natural embedding of a d-1 dimensional ball into a d dimensional space < 1267043242 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contact area of a 3D sphere against a 3D rectangular prism can only be a singularity < 1267043246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in 3d, you'd have a disc, in 2d, you'd have an etc < 1267043246 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they intersect < 1267043260 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, okay < 1267043265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what the fuck is a singularity? < 1267043271 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size n < 1267043275 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lim(n->0) < 1267043297 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: so the contact area is lim(n->0), which sounds like a limit to me < 1267043298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on reals that limit is 0 < 1267043307 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "singularity" of a computer screen is a pixel < 1267043329 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the scope of a* < 1267043329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like some sort of intuitive nonstandard analysis < 1267043339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka bullshit < 1267043344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267043349 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267043374 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_singularity < 1267043427 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing discontinuous in the sphere/table setup, though. < 1267043444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need a "singularity", can't you just say the object's center is exactly at the tip of the corner < 1267043446 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two colliding singularities, what do you do? < 1267043458 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treat them as spheres, boxes? < 1267043487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: these singularities are not actually well-defined mathematical objects < 1267043499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the ones the article talks about are < 1267043508 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is an infinitely small point < 1267043518 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which the surface of intersection with a sphere is < 1267043528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2infinitely small point"? < 1267043531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*" < 1267043538 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267043547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any sensible measure of volume, a set containing just one point has measure 0 < 1267043551 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my use of the word in this case < 1267043555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all points are infinitely small < 1267043571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet some points are infinitely smaller than others! < 1267043578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not just put the disc on the corner < 1267043590 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was using to begin with < 1267043624 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol what's bullshit about that < 1267043703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, I prefer the term "science fiction". Whereever there is a singularity, there is a paradox caused by execessive quantum flux. < 1267043727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people who talk about singularities in that sort of context don't have any idea what they're talking about < 1267043743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a proof for this, but my wormhole ate it. < 1267043753 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it's another way of using the word. < 1267043833 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what the fuck does "lim n-->0" mean, the point that n approaches as n approaches 0? < 1267043840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds sensible < 1267043847 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey hehe < 1267043856 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is its size < 1267043866 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size of the OBJECT that we are calling a singularity < 1267043884 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mesh size? < 1267043889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do we have some sort of measure on these objects? < 1267043893 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonstandard analysis is just as much bullshit as ZFC < 1267043895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the size of 1? is it 1? < 1267043905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: there's nothing bullshitty about nonstandard analysis < 1267043913 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since there is an algorithm to translate proofs back) < 1267043915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of bullshit about people doing it without knowing what it is < 1267043919 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what is the unit of "1"? < 1267043923 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :souds like all caluculus oklopol < 1267043932 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people doing it all without knowing what it means < 1267043935 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1267043941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's bullshit too < 1267043953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have a proof for this, but my wormhole ate it. <-- no no "but the singularity is too small to contain it! < 1267043955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1267043958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, they're memorizing useful algorithms < 1267043967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean for a mathematician < 1267043973 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, that's actually a good joke < 1267043979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um... it was a very small proof? < 1267043998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, -_- < 1267044003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fermat joke < 1267044018 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost on me, sorry. < 1267044024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1267044027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1267044034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you have to know the story < 1267044035 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1267044051 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked both cpressey's original, and AnMaster's correction < 1267044058 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correction wouldn't have been funny without the original joke < 1267044104 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267044115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, you could have used the corrected one in place of the original < 1267044118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: i assumed we were talking about a vector space, if the size of a vector is its length, then obviously the only vector whose length is smaller than any positive number is the zero vector. < 1267044132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously = by definition < 1267044138 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original was funny too, though, and doing them in the other order wouldn't have worked < 1267044139 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not vector space < 1267044148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, true < 1267044149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is it? < 1267044151 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's real space - the one we don't know how to define < 1267044155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, but just doing one would have worked < 1267044157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267044162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's discreete afaik < 1267044164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discrete < 1267044167 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1267044167 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it wouldn't have been as funny cumulatively < 1267044170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1267044171 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two jokes are better than one < 1267044172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who cares < 1267044174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wormholes < 1267044181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that interact with gravity < 1267044182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1267044194 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The higssdafjkshdfjklsdh boson did it < 1267044203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you have a wormhole from somewhere near earth surface to somewhere on the moon < 1267044210 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267044212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that give earth gravity at the moon? < 1267044217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what the heck would happen < 1267044260 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since physics seems to happily accept the idea that gravity means curved space, ... < 1267044262 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravity is a field effect < 1267044278 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a distortion of an object's inertia < 1267044285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes. But what would happen here < 1267044297 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, a wormhole is curved space, too, right? < 1267044307 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore wormholes are a kind of gravity. < 1267044311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267044320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, holes that changes the topology too iirc < 1267044342 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're gravity++ < 1267044360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267044368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so everyone would get crushed in wormholes? < 1267044423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems "reasonable" that it would be much easier to "fall" into one than to get out, anyway. < 1267044465 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it goes straight from Earth to Earth's moon, that's one hell of a curve. < 1267044467 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet things get out. < 1267044477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they? I have yet to see one < 1267044482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/so/do/ < 1267044532 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Under the theory of quantum mechanics black holes possess a temperature and emit Hawking radiation. < 1267044536 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1267044539 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole < 1267044541 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267044543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that yes < 1267044557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a wormhole wouldn't have a event horizon iirc < 1267044579 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a black hole contains a wormhole < 1267044582 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've read < 1267044618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267044815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267044897 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.248.104.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267045296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in black holes. < 1267045311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267045370 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267045645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1267045933 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe in the power of voodoo? < 1267045979 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267046048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any undocumented functions in [the module] string should not be used." <-- okay, why do they need to point that out? < 1267046319 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they've documented the undocumented functions yaws uses, yet < 1267046570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undocumented voodoo black holes. < 1267046842 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where the flying nose demons live. < 1267046995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what are those functions yaws uses? < 1267047005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean the erlang yaws < 1267047198 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It uses some Erlang-internal mechanism to parse HTTP headers, iirc. < 1267047291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh? < 1267047573 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267047620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... yes. < 1267047648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267047796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely not! < 1267047806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now goes to find out what he was denying
< 1267047948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1267047975 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that erlang has an undocumented function to parse HTTP headers < 1267047992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1267048016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would _clearly_ be nonsense, since i read here the other day that ericsson document _everything_ < 1267048095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even document the fact that you're not supposed to use undocumented functions. < 1267048100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : theory: Google bought Youtube /just/ for leverage in getting rid of IE6 < 1267048129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the IE6 problem mostly about all the business sites using them, and wouldn't they like to _block_ youtube anyways < 1267048131 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for oerjan's opinion, and/or a terrible pun
< 1267048135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1267048139 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, yes < 1267048265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:29:21 cpressey, what about the one of ick? < 1267048266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:29:39 it looked pretty okay considering the language it is supposed to parse iirc < 1267048277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't ick's parsing sort of hyper-advanced < 1267048302 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing INTERCAL is hard < 1267048306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going by vaguely absorbed discussions here) < 1267048321 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL's parsing is crazier, I think it's fully nondeterministic or something like that < 1267048338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Nowadays, yes. *However*, ending IE6 support on Youtube might finally get it into the beancounters' bean-sized brains that IE6 is ancient. < 1267048539 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267048547 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267048550 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267048609 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1267048635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah oklopol < 1267048643 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an oklopol < 1267048676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of the okloclones < 1267049153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on oklopol < 1267049399 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ol' oklopol < 1267049482 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267049760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:49:39 a black hole contains a wormhole < 1267049790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read that it contains a singularity < 1267049850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that wormholes are very hard to stabilize, and tend to pinch off into singularities < 1267050088 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wormholes cannot be stable because they need either exotic matter or dark energy < 1267050131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267050296 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a asrophisicist let me answer yourn question < 1267050319 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre very stable < 1267050384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may not be an astrophysicist, but i've read enough to suspect you're trolling < 1267050401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, creating or destroying wormhole between two points in same space would involve topology change... < 1267050412 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW ON EArth did you guess that < 1267050446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: because you are directly contradicting the wikipedia articles i browsed minutes ago? < 1267050475 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was sarcasm as well, i thouight my terrible spelling might have been a clue < 1267050485 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, maybe scientists are renowned for terrible spelling < 1267050499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: i was _trying_ to ignore that, i didn't remember whether you were a dyslexic < 1267050520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And energies related to topology changes might be very high. Magnetic monopole is thought to be particle related to spacetime topology and have mass somewhere on order of 10^16 GeV/c^2... < 1267050524 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an incredibly generous person < 1267050548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why thank you < 1267051136 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267051204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267051754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267051916 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1267051916 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1267051916 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1267051916 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1267052026 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.248.104.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267052026 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267052026 0 :Pthing!~pthing@cpc2-pres4-0-0-cust752.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267052026 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267052475 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267052603 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1267053785 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267053873 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267054134 0 :songhead95!~jay@c-75-67-0-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054315 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267054396 0 :songhead95!~jay@c-75-67-0-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054459 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267054472 0 :songhead95!~jay@c-75-67-0-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054488 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054538 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054542 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267054549 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1267054632 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1267054751 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1267054778 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone ever on the brainfuck chan anymore? < 1267054815 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1267054825 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one's used for all esolang discussion nowadays, it seems < 1267054833 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great language. < 1267054898 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I made a language, I had to make it cell based < 1267054915 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So It would be brainfucky < 1267055383 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267055542 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: songhead95 < 1267055580 0 :son_!~jay@c-75-67-0-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267055787 0 :son_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267055840 0 :son_!~jay@c-75-67-0-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267055945 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267055997 0 :son_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?