< 1267401601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _starts_ with a sex change, and then you turn into a furry < 1267401625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *a crisis < 1267401638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, haw haw signal/noise has just approached 0 < 1267401643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I accidentally used the plural. Hooray. < 1267401708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY coppro < 1267401712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ℝ : Set where < 1267401712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ℝ : (f : ℚ⁺ → ℚ) < 1267401712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → {{ε₁:ℚ⁺} → {ε₂:ℚ⁺} → abs (f ε₁ - f ε₂) ≤ ε₁ + ε₂} < 1267401713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → ℝ < 1267401713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267401713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι : ℚ → ℝ < 1267401713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι q = ℝ (λ_. q) < 1267401714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADMIRE < 1267401775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes < 1267401777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also does that make sense with "either one"? < 1267401797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is my brain inferring an innuendo that in fact isn't there at all, thus implying i have finally left the last stage of sanity < 1267401804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: THAT IS NOT ADMIRATION < 1267401827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, I've pissed off alise. See you Tuesday < 1267401862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat < 1267401863 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1267401878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because you're a girl, obv < 1267401893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. haw haw < 1267402018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm. *Looks* like the standard definition of the computable reals from the rationals. < 1267402042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... it is. < 1267402049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with "Sure, makes sense". ;) < 1267402054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euler : ℝ < 1267402055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euler = ℝ (λ ε → sum (map (λ i → (i!)⁻¹) (1 … ε))) < 1267402055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1267402075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I am using x⁻¹ in place of 1/x WHAT OF IT < 1267402104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no complaints. < 1267402151 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267402176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (m … n) for range, mostly because I can't think of anything else < 1267402196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... it should be product not sum < 1267402197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1267402234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 not 1 lol < 1267402335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should define a product operator < 1267402335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1267402336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∏ 0 → ε ⇒ λ i → (i!)⁻¹ < 1267402389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euler : ℝ < 1267402390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euler = ℝ (λ ε → ∏ 0 → ε ⇒ λ i → (i!)⁻¹) < 1267402904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, abs (x-y) deserves a better name than it possesses. < 1267402920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d(x,y) ? < 1267402933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an operator, it's a function. < 1267402960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distance metric < 1267402991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I think it's actually a nicer operation than subtraction. < 1267402999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're measuring, not doing some sort of thingy-bob operation. < 1267403135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seems that Epigram 2 does indeed have Mu, the Fix you quoted, as the primitive. < 1267403166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make nat := (Mu @ [`arg { zero, suc } [ (@ [`done]) (@ [`ind1 @ [`done]]) ] ] ) : * ; < 1267403167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make zero := @ [`zero] : nat ; < 1267403167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make suc := (\ x -> @ [`suc x]) : nat -> nat ; < 1267403167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make one := (suc zero) : nat ; < 1267403167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make two := (suc one) : nat ; < 1267403168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make plus := @ @ [(\ r r y -> y) (\ r -> @ \ h r y -> suc (h y))] : nat -> nat -> nat ; < 1267403168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make x := (plus two two) : nat < 1267403181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267403440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems yucky to me, though. < 1267403586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how can that mu do paramaterisable types though < 1267403592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λA → (λT → data nil : T; cons : A → T → T) < 1267403593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267403599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er does that Mu show up for you? < 1267403600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1267403606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1267403606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the first -> imagine an M < 1267403615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no unicode at all < 1267403633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\A -> M (\T -> data nil : T; cons : A -> T -> T) < 1267403637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where M is our Mu < 1267403671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you answered your own question? < 1267403675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1267403693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\A -> M (\T -> (data nil : T) && (data cons : A -> T -> T)) < 1267403700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where && = Either = union = and < 1267403743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(data nil : T) ≈ 1 < 1267403753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\A -> M (\T -> Unit && (data cons : A -> T -> T)) < 1267403765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how to reduce the cons, I wonder < 1267403781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my issue with these kinds of shenanigans is that the implementation gets exposed < 1267403786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() : List, which isn't cool < 1267403845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the observational type theory guys have a nice way to do all this, and it's in epigram 2 :P < 1267403888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course all this Muery doesn't help us write nice notation... < 1267403888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1267403895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is my whole goal :P < 1267403946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predicted return to specialized notation in 1,2 ... < 1267403957 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-124-201-235.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267404017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're saying I'll never go back? < 1267404021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense! < 1267404033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats alise -----### < 1267404038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously why are the T and ... in the same definition in data X : T where ... < 1267404042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense! < 1267404110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I’d scribble something about what we’re up to. The team (Pierre-Évariste Dagand, Adam Gundry, Peter Morris, James Chapman) have been hard at work. I have been otherwise engaged. As a result, there has been considerable progress. Don’t worry. I expect I’ll mess things up properly over Christmas. < 1267404114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Conor McBride < 1267404213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired, so I'll sleep now. < 1267404221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully, see you tomorrow. Bye! < 1267404222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: alise < 1267406587 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267406598 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267406623 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267406735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1267406738 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, still nobody has sent me the esoteric-priv stuff. < 1267406754 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the place where "int main(){for(int i=0;i<1;i++) i--; return 0;}" is a normal c++ program? < 1267406803 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267406942 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267407092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: no. c++ is banned here. *ducks* < 1267407109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know c++ anyhow < 1267407154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't that an infinite loop. < 1267407202 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267407225 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1267407253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: No, we write crazier C++. < 1267407262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, crazier C, actually. < 1267407294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a,b,c;main(z,i)char**i;{h:a=!a,b=!b;g:(b-1)[1[i]]>b[i[1]]?a^=a,c=(b-1)[1[i]],1[i][b-1]=i[1][b],b[i[1]]=c,b=&b[(void*)1]:(b=&b[(void*)1]),!b[i[1]]?:({goto g;}),a?:({goto h;}),b=!b;j:putchar(b[1[i]])[(void*)(b=&b[(void*)1])],1[i][b]?({goto j;}):putchar('\n');} < 1267407296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate into Haskell please. < 1267407301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1267407311 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(i=0;i!=0;) < 1267407356 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the craziest i can quickly think of that fits on one line. < 1267407392 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it say < 1267407406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The equivalent Haskell for benuphoenix's program is: main = undefined < 1267407408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267407427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, strictly speaking his is the "infinite loop" sort of bottom, but hey.) < 1267407438 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = main < 1267407441 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's shorter, even! < 1267407459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, GHC complains about that. < 1267407491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = return $ length [1..] -- This is *actually* an infinite loop. :) < 1267407504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Wait, no, that won't be eval'd. < 1267407518 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1267407524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = return $ length [1..] `seq` () < 1267407532 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-160-120-71.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267407535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267407550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi benuphoenix < 1267407566 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1267407637 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i the only one who uses irssi in windows instead of xchat? < 1267407638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System; main = System.exit . flip seq 0 . all (<1) $ iterate (succ.pred) 0 < 1267407660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think uorygl SSHes in to normish from which he uses irssi < 1267407664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1267407671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Windows? < 1267407682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hah. < 1267407691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, on Cygwin apparently < 1267407694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = flip seq 0 . all (<1) $ iterate (succ.pred) 0 < 1267407708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1267407736 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a win32 binary version on irssi.org < 1267407741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = flip seq (return 0) . all (<1) $ iterate (succ.pred) 0 < 1267407783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I suggest (`seq`return 0) instead of flip seq (return 0)? < 1267407819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may < 1267407842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that last one got no response. maybe that meant it actually _did_ compile. < 1267407933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, does ghc use main's result for exiting if it is an Int? < 1267407946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need that System function after all < 1267407949 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/c++: int main{for(;;);} might be infinite. i only speak c++ and basic < 1267408008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1267408026 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: currently, I SSH into sine.aftran.com from which I use irssi. < 1267408039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps uorygl  < 1267408054 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267408059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System; main = exitWith . flip seq 0 . all (<1) $ iterate (succ.pred) 0 < 1267408065 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you know that sine.aftran.com is not the location of our chatting. < 1267408073 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left out the port number and channel name. < 1267408086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System; main = exitWith . exitSuccess . flip seq 0 . all (<1) $ iterate (succ.pred) 0 < 1267408112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to actually look up the correct function name :D < 1267408126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050131.html < 1267408181 0 :cal153!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267408280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1267408284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`seq`0) < 1267408307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i said you may suggest it, not that i would listen < 1267408317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah. < 1267408353 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got "main(){for(;;);}" to compile and run infinite. < 1267408370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c++ main(){for(;;);} < 1267408391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it hasn't complained yet < 1267408396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gnarble < 1267408406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!interps < 1267408416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: Well, yeah... < 1267408422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1267408423 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1267408431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1267408432 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1267408432 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-96-97.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267408441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267408450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cxx main(){for(;;);} < 1267408460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c main(){main();} < 1267408462 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 29844 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ < 1267408472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no TCO? < 1267408475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lame*. < 1267408489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Real* compilers TCO. < 1267408522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCO? < 1267408549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tail-call optimisation. < 1267408568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1267408574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python doesn't do that, for some reason < 1267408584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tail call can be optimised to a jmp fairly easily. < 1267408587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading about someone arguing that that's correct, and it shouldn't < 1267408613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's incorrect. < 1267408642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At a *bare* minimum it should offer a way of explicitly doing a tail call. < 1267408652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something like Perl's "goto &func;") < 1267408661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1267408666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"goto &func(args);" < 1267408726 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-156-193-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267408727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: TCO is harder to do in C, because of calling conventions. Caller cleanup means that not many things are actually tail calls.) < 1267408809 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running main(){main();} after [c++] compiling successfully segmetation-faulted after 1.49 seconds < 1267408829 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ssh'd onto my freebsd 8 system < 1267408837 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267408839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++. for high-speed crashing. < 1267408854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267408899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it C++ doesn't TCO either < 1267408901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267408931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your compiler < 1267408943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that even compiles; main is not supposed to be callable < 1267408987 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it's gcc version 4.2.1 < 1267409023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1267409064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the compiler inserts all the initialization into the prelude of main, so the standard disallows calling it from within the program < 1267409141 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that the only reason that g++ allows it is because one of the developers wanted to program infinite loops < 1267409165 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1267409187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, you can make infinite loops all sorts of other ways < 1267409219 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/infinite loops/recursive function calls/ < 1267409227 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267409267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can go infinitely recursive with any other function < 1267409332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can infinitely loop while choosing how to infinitely loop! < 1267409402 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running main(){main();} gave me a 67 meg core dump < 1267409480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: GCC doesn't stick any initialization into main. < 1267409487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The entry point is _start. < 1267409500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: _start initialises things and then calls main. < 1267409511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but that doesn't change the standard < 1267409521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling main is still illegal < 1267409534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does many things that are illegal. < 1267409560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarly < 1267409604 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing "main(){...}" when it should only be "int main(){...}" < 1267409642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C89, the "int" is implied. < 1267409688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C99 too, no? < 1267409755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's still legal in C99, although stupid :) < 1267409792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm sure -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic would complain. < 1267409793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. C99 allows it for functions. < 1267409802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's banned for variables. < 1267409807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: -std=c99 makes it warn. < 1267409815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's deprecated but allowed. < 1267409830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I've gotten warning. < 1267409855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 apparently lets you do int a[b]; when b isn't a const? < 1267409856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning != illegal. gcc also warns if you use gets() < 1267409862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is somewhat scared < 1267409867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, gcc warns if you use gets() even if you specify -w (no warnings) :P < 1267409889 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could approximate that with alloca anyway < 1267409892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, works just fine. < 1267409899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The array gets allocated on the stack. < 1267409918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gets cleaned up when it goes out of scope. < 1267409933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "cleaned up", we of course mean "popped".) < 1267409946 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, alloca is not part of any standard, but is basically implemented by everyone) < 1267409970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, alloca is pretty common. < 1267409996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It's POSIX. < 1267410013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is benuphoenix doing C or C++? < 1267410016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is? < 1267410031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO < 1267410032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This function is not in POSIX.1-2001. < 1267410032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no it's not. I thought it was. < 1267410034 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C++ < 1267410037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason. < 1267410050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just been around since at least 3BSD. < 1267410092 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when it's identical to c, i still use c++ < 1267410118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: That's dumb. < 1267410199 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i rarely write something in c++ that doesn't use iostream < 1267410238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeeeew. < 1267410265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s IO is one of the more stupid features. < 1267410285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, IO via bitshift?) < 1267410331 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "<<" and ">>" are overrides < 1267410378 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, i think that's the term < 1267410391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're bitshift operators. < 1267410414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That your bitshift operator isn't *shifting* any *bits* doesn't make them cease to be bitshift operators. < 1267410488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is somewhat ugly, but is that that big a tragedy? < 1267410490 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i know what the bitshift operaters are and what they are supposed to do < 1267410531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's but one of the poor things about C++'s IO. < 1267410535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shifts bits from memory into IO :P < 1267410538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or vice/versa < 1267410543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is merely a poor *aesthetic* choice. < 1267410595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paging coppro to #esoteric . coppro to #esoteric < 1267410635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iostreams also have the annoying property that you can manipulate their ouput mode, but not readily set the output mode back to what it was previously. < 1267410655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a function that outputs some numbers as hex and then returns the iostream to the previous mode. Go on, I'm waiting. < 1267410670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Iostreams make i18n a royal *pain*. < 1267410691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, you would wrap the format string in a function that looks up the translation for the string. < 1267410702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++... You use printf if you want to do that. < 1267410726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or GNU's asprintf, which is a printf that *works on iostreams*. Thus obviating everything different about them.) < 1267410729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you can retrieve the flags somehow? < 1267410735 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mainly use cin.get() and cout.put() < 1267410750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1267410767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cin.something? There's no something? Or something()? < 1267410769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267410781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why in the world does endl exist? I could understand if it actually used the system end of line character. < 1267410790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pong < 1267410794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *doesn't*. It just outputs \n and flushes the iostream. < 1267410801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Fekking. *Stupid*. < 1267410817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, read the C++ criticism. You're a C++ defender person, iirc? < 1267410824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I don't defend IOstreams < 1267410825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck < 1267410830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1267410864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... C++ vs C arguments. Seriously? Argh. < 1267410866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the overarching concept (easily extensible streams) is good, and that's about it < 1267410876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Agreed. < 1267410894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, we have to do one of these every now and then. < 1267411018 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true or false: iostreams are useful when the professors want to see them in the code? < 1267411027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1267411159 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the c stdio equivlents of the c++ iostream functions "cin.get()" and "cout.put()"? < 1267411203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the type of get and put again? < 1267411267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getc and putc < 1267411275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1267411276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm... < 1267411281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: Which get? < 1267411289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the one that gets the next character < 1267411308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the "int get()" one. < 1267411368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, "int getchar(void)" and "int putchar(int)" are the functions. < 1267411611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone who needs to breathe has thirty seconds to get off the station. < 1267411728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050921.html < 1267412322 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267413430 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1267413479 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1267413808 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1267416512 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267418926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to dick around with an experiment in flight control for my video game? :D < 1267420091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd XD < 1267420248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish the die looked better though < 1267420758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267420785 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267422008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1267422233 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267425364 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Linguini! Fettucini, al forno! Bolognese, Crostini. Carbonara. Manicotti con Granchi e Spinaci. Frutti... di... MARE! Resquiat in pesci, in pesto, e in quattro formaggi. < 1267425375 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resquiat in fish, pesto, and four cheeses. < 1267425428 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: what are you trying to do lol < 1267425431 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Linguini; fettucini, al forno; bolognese, Crostini; carbonara; manicotti con Granchi e Spinaci; frutti... di... MARE; resquiat in pesci, in pesto, e in quattro formaggi. < 1267425433 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEA; resquiat in fish, pesto, and four cheeses. < 1267425436 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1267425441 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to translate that. < 1267425447 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats to translate < 1267425451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre names of foods < 1267425492 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the "al forno" and the "resquiat" parts? < 1267425535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh who knows im not italian < 1267425616 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess all of it is food except the resquiat. < 1267426417 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267426519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267429278 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267430399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1267430400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1267430457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267430466 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267430521 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267431316 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-21-56.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1267431809 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-193-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267432614 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267434627 0 :yourcomdotmom!~yourcomdo@c-24-130-140-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267434627 0 :yourcomdotmom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1267434674 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1267434794 0 :yourcomdotmom!~yourcomdo@c-24-130-140-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267434934 0 :yourcomdotmom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267435000 0 :yourcomdotmom!~yourcomdo@c-24-130-140-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267435030 0 :yourcomdotmom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267435073 0 :yourcomdotmom!~yourcomdo@c-24-130-140-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267436003 0 :yourcomdotmom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267437066 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267438172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That translated bit sounds so very very familiar, but I just can't place it. I'm sure I've read it somewhere, though. < 1267440123 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1267440965 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267441732 0 :ehird!~ehird@95.145.65.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267441745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March. 'Tis verily March. < 1267442158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was thinking that the inductive datatype constructor would be M, and the forgotten-the-name (like maybe for Maybe) μ. So you'd define all functions on inductive data-types with μ. I think Epigram 2 does that, or something like it. < 1267442242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think M : (Set -> Set) -> Set makes sense, though; you can't define a sensible μ recursion combinator just based on that. < 1267442352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe you can. Feeding the non-M'd (List A) to the empty type gets us `data empty : Void; cons : A -> Void -> Void`. Wait, what? empty : Void? < 1267442356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused now. < 1267442365 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird?! < 1267442371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1267442373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta fix that default. < 1267442381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267442385 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MISS MY EHIRD < 1267442389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough shit. < 1267442390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267442392 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1267442397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever used unity? < 1267442397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1267442399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1267442409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: alise < 1267442427 0 :alise!~alise@95.145.65.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267442435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never used Unity. 3D is hard; let's go shopping. < 1267442445 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuude < 1267442446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it in my language! < 1267442446 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so cool < 1267442448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be dependent. < 1267442458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONOIDAL RENDERING < 1267442805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:33:37 coppro, read the C++ criticism. You're a C++ defender person, iirc? < 1267442805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. I would also have accepted "lunatic". < 1267443625 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1267443634 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267443874 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267444043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi scarf < 1267444052 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1267444093 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, haven't been doing too much esoprogramming recently, unless you consider Java eso < 1267444130 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the things which comes with a job is not always being able to choose which language you write in < 1267444138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's alright, I haven't been either < 1267444156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then again, I guess you could consider my language eso < 1267444165 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you're saying that Java is a good language know if you want a job? well, it got /me/ a job < 1267444203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( if i had been there i'd go on a lecture about soul-crushing C.R.U.D. work with contradictory specifications to the student :D < 1267444206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been fun! < 1267444224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be the most cynical person about programming jobs who has /never had a programming job/ < 1267444225 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well my job is teaching it to students < 1267444235 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't have the sort of over-enterprisiness issues < 1267444244 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, my heart sinking at people confusing classes and methods < 1267444251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's basically like teaching applied satanism :P < 1267444255 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1267444256 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haha < 1267444258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it but... why < 1267444276 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improving the average quality of Java programmers can only be a good thing, surely? < 1267444280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1267444290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, have the computable reals: < 1267444292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ℝ : Set where < 1267444292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ℝ : (f : ℚ⁺ → ℚ) < 1267444292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → {{ε₁:ℚ⁺} → {ε₂:ℚ⁺} → abs (f ε₁ - f ε₂) ≤ ε₁ + ε₂} < 1267444293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → ℝ < 1267444293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267444293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι : ℚ → ℝ < 1267444293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι q = ℝ (λ_. q) < 1267444333 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, Unicode support < 1267444344 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think any language with a syntax like that is necessarily eso, including APL < 1267444352 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=380731#15 (found via reddit) makes me amused < 1267444354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support? I'm afraid I'm going to shift your opinion now; it's not optional. < 1267444361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode or GTFO! < 1267444377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: that bug report really irritates me < 1267444388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am god, accept my holy package judgements < 1267444401 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it confuses me, but I'm not sure why I'm confused and get even more confused as a result < 1267444429 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you consider support for the astral planes also necessary? < 1267444433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the definition of computable reals < 1267444449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, it's only "required" insofar as the basic syntax and stdlib use it :P < 1267444456 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for the lang < 1267444460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1267444462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1267444471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, does any of the actual syntax use it? The arrow is defined in the stdlib, albeit as a primitive < 1267444476 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant that Unicode support was necessary for everything, and ended up agreeing with you < 1267444479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course, lambda < 1267444495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, that too of course < 1267444498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aastral Plane is nice also < 1267444501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Astral < 1267444506 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in derl (my underlambda/underload interp), all I/O is in UTF-8, and it uses UTF-32 internally < 1267444527 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think I've ever seen the Unicode version of the astral planes written with a capital letter < 1267444532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I, oh well < 1267444536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I love dependently-typed languages < 1267444539 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are 16 of them < 1267444542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Induction on the naturals as a recursion combinator? < 1267444543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wyever not < 1267444550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Whyever < 1267444585 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my PhD is turning slightly towards the idea of dependent types; dependent types is sort-of parametrizing types towards values, whereas what I'm doing is in the other direction < 1267444604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not sort-of, that's exactly what it is. < 1267444607 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where types are parametrized by the number of times you're allowed to use a value of that type ever < 1267444615 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, ok < 1267444621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The normal typed lambda calculus is types indexing on types, and values indexing on values. < 1267444626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With typeclasses, we have values indexing on types. < 1267444631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependent types give us types indexing on values. < 1267444638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, typeclasses don't /quite/ do that. < 1267444639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But close. < 1267444653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependently-typed languages usually have types as first-class values, too, so we get values-indexing-on-types for free. < 1267444735 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I've been thinking about recently is designing my own VCS < 1267444745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the (intensional) Axiom of Choice is in fact provable in intuitionistic type theory and thus most dependent langs. < 1267444750 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found a paradigm general enough to contain both git's model and darcs's model as special cases < 1267444756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if it is in Observational Type Theory (the underpinning of Epigram 2)? < 1267444763 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ooh, the axiom of choice < 1267444769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not the extensional axiom of choice, though.) < 1267444777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensional is the one that lets you do things like order the real numbers. < 1267444786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html < 1267444788 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're in a CS department, you eventually find someone who makes you realise that it isn't actually obvious after all < 1267444792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have one without the other. < 1267444801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is awesome. < 1267444854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intensional not intuitionistic < 1267444865 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intensional one is the one that's normally stated as the axiom, at least here < 1267444892 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, we're normally dealing with sets, where the existence of quotients is taken for granted < 1267444898 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they probably come out equivalent there < 1267444922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's causing me a bit of a crisis as I like quotient types < 1267444945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Observational Type Theory which has a really nice definition of equality has tem < 1267444947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1267444953 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that first link is a data: link < 1267444955 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that page < 1267444958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely it cannot have extensional choice? < 1267444964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'd have excluded middle < 1267444979 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't load in my browser < 1267444981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you cannot give a value of either p or p -> Void for every type p... < 1267444989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: he does tat a lot < 1267444993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1267444995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like footnotes but awesome < 1267445006 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why it isn't working? loading it just gives me a blank page < 1267445009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his blog http://r6.ca/blog/ is very cool < 1267445122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20091101T231201Z.html man I haven't read this before < 1267445188 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, loads in Epiphany < 1267445192 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's -webkit < 1267445237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That data: link was the strange in my Ubuntu 3.0-series Firefox too: clicking did nothing; opened in new tab, initially got a blank page with no special load indicators; finally got it open when I went to the location bar to press enter once. < 1267445250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM (safari) < 1267445255 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267445289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it works just fine after the go-to-location-bar-and-press-return, I suppose there's nothing wrong with the link itself. < 1267445290 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, let me try that in FF < 1267445317 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, same results < 1267445334 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that /is/ a weird bug, I wonder if it's an FF bug or an extension bug? < 1267445350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, guys, what's your favourite definition symbol? < 1267445376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ≔ < 1267445443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that snowman guy. < 1267445486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1267445553 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: = with a little word "def" over it is normally used when writing proofs here < 1267445565 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how much I like it, but it's at least unambiguous < 1267445565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you need a huge font size for that to be readable. < 1267445581 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's something very nicely pure about a language that can get away with using = for defined-equal < 1267445583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, it is ugly; we rarely use words in mathematics, preferring symbols (including alphanumeric ones). < 1267445583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≔ is nice, though in this font even that's just a = that has some sort of blobby things on the left end. < 1267445585 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Algol 68 < 1267445599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overlaying an English abbreviation on top of a very common symbol is just silly/ < 1267445599 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Haskell < 1267445601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly. < 1267445603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ditto. < 1267445613 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's visible as a :=-alike to me < 1267445617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: It isn't pure, though, because that's not really what it means. < 1267445617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still better-looking than the ≝ though. < 1267445618 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with less space between the : and hte = < 1267445623 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know < 1267445627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that one's just a = with a larger smudge above. < 1267445628 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ugh, that's awful < 1267445633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least it should be ≡. < 1267445642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitional equality, propositional equality, ... < 1267445647 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I zoom right in, I can see the word def < 1267445653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam, spam, equality and spam... < 1267445656 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's zooming via super-mousewheel, not by making the font bigger < 1267445681 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't realise how much you were missing super-mousewheel until you get a system where it works < 1267445695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-mousewheell in os x. < 1267445697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no mousewheel, though < 1267445700 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ≡ to me implies congruence rather than definition < 1267445711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, right, definitional equality is =. < 1267445716 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super-mousewheel works via the touchpad here < 1267445725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡ is propositional. < 1267445729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: No mouse at all < 1267445730 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1267445737 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh, you remind me of me < 1267445753 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mouse I have at the moment is basically broken, I need a new one / to stop using the mouse again < 1267445762 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly only use it for Enigma, NetBeans, and websurfing as it is < 1267445772 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NetBeans because it doesn't respond to keyboard shortcuts in a sane manner) < 1267445790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mouse just no radio receiving thing for it. < 1267445808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you know I'm not in my usual residence, so this stuff had to be picked up and the receiver was not. < 1267445821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be resolved by today with the amazing solution of "purchasing a mouse" :P < 1267445827 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(putting one of the more useful key combos on alt-f1, followed by preventing the usual shortcut keys opening the only menu which has that option on as a command, means you have to use the mouse for some things) < 1267445950 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: http://www.robweir.com/blog/2010/02/microsoft-random-browser-ballot.html < 1267445961 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary: Microsoft messed up the code for randomizing the order of browsers in their ballot thing < 1267445966 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not all the combinations have equal probabilities < 1267446052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.browserchoice.eu/BrowserChoice/browserchoice_en.htm < 1267446057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck is a "green" browser? < 1267446130 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION follows the tell me more link < 1267446138 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet they claim to be environmentally friendly, or something < 1267446159 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the PNG image on their home page is taking around 10 seconds to load < 1267446159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that too but it doesn't seem so < 1267446166 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen an image load that slowly for months < 1267446170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how there's like a few decent browsers and then holy shit obscureathons < 1267446177 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and last time, it was goatse, and I managed to click away before more than the top 20 or so pixels loaded < 1267446182 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after guessing it was a goatse < 1267446188 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've seen the top 20 pixels or so of goatse, but no more < 1267446237 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.morequick.com/IndexEn.htm <--- wow that's a bad homepage < 1267446275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bad browesr < 1267446281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it uses IE's engine < 1267446287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see bottom left of screenshot < 1267446316 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's the IE logo, you're right < 1267446340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah like Maxthon and shit they're all the same < 1267446344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take IE engine add shitty UI with tabs done < 1267446350 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a website called morequick.com load so slowly? < 1267446379 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the interface looks like it's trying to look like OS X and failing < 1267446424 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks on the IE install link < 1267446429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the tabs < 1267446429 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I'm curious as to what will happen < 1267446441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some exe < 1267446445 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I get an advert for Windows 7 < 1267446448 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually sort-of clever < 1267446454 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Internet Explorer 8 is available only on PCs running Windows. Check out Windows 7, which includes Internet Explorer 8." < 1267446577 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have win7 installed on here (haven't used it for months, though), so if I really wanted IE 8, I could get it like that < 1267446580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/38864566@N00/2479491895/ < 1267446580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is sweet < 1267446712 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, not a still image? < 1267446716 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have a look when I get home < 1267446729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It couldn't be a still image < 1267447552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this sinking feeling that I should do pattern matching on arbitrary function results. < 1267447559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to just constructors) < 1267447603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just constructors < 1267447651 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching reminds me of the old joke about regexes ("now you have /two/ problems") < 1267447667 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the statement about XML being like violence < 1267447682 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those things where, if you start pattern matching you end up needing to use more and more and more of it < 1267447801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually pattern matching is just sugar for case expressions which is just half of structural recursion on inductive data types... but what do I know :P < 1267448712 0 :daef!~david.zot@85-126-245-111.static.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1267448809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: Are you dæf? < 1267448816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just deaf /and/ dyslexic? < 1267448887 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I tried /nick æis523 but Freenode wouldn't let me < 1267448911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, isn't it pronounced ay eye ess? < 1267448916 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes < 1267448923 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a different word if it were æis523 < 1267448927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1267448938 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like "oklopol" is not pronounced the same way as "oklofok" < 1267448956 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ACK < 1267448969 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dyslexics are teople poo < 1267448974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: Oh, cute, you're one end of a TCP socket! < 1267448980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: nickname = ( letter / special ) *8( letter / digit / special / "-" ) < 1267448994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pah! < 1267449003 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, I'm... amazed and happy that you actually looked that up < 1267449015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So what nick does -i use on IRC? < 1267449017 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just as happy but more amazed if you typed it from memoryt < 1267449021 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memory < 1267449030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He looks everything up :) < 1267449039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is an unstoppable Google machine < 1267449044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Sorry to deamaze you a bit; it was looked-up. Looking things up is pretty much what I do. < 1267449052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was from a local file this time, though. < 1267449071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is "deamaze" a word?) < 1267449078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is just a gigantic lookup table < 1267449084 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm david => dave => daef < 1267449086 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deaf < 1267449091 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1267449096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliezer Yudkowsky isn't sure whether you're conscious, fizzie. < 1267449104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: Oh shush you. < 1267449111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm allowed to be ridiculous if I feel like it. < 1267449117 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1267449118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not sure of that either; I can't seem to find any good results for it in Google. < 1267449157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't find http://lesswrong.com/lw/pa/gazp_vs_glut/? < 1267449173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He concludes you're not conscious. Ha! < 1267449180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have foiled you, GLUT! < 1267449197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Schadenfreude if the other party isn't conscious? < 1267449252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked the bot what I am, and it just said I'm "a communist irrelevant to any discussion of economics". That wasn't so polite. < 1267449281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267449284 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you speak german? < 1267449297 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snowplow, grassroots, mobile OE, MPSEB Indian utility co. meter reading, Delhi traffic police, Citibank demo documentation, Disprax (fake screen shots only), Jackson Builders, Aston Villa, NREGA employment census, smnp hardware monitoring, NDPL power, PG Call Home < 1267449297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: No, but Schadenfreude is an authentic English word, high-quality import. < 1267449301 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1267449306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly any scratches on the disk. Only slightly pirated. < 1267449328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I agree. < 1267449344 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the "gazp vs glut" thing confuses me, I couldn't get why you'd compare anything but SDL to GLUT < 1267449348 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to be a different GLUT < 1267449368 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can have fun guessing what that list is, btw < 1267449375 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as can the rest of #esoteric < 1267449388 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's likely to be distinctive enough that Google would turn it up pretty quickly < 1267449419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: GLUT = Giant Look-Up Table < 1267449426 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, got that from the page < 1267449427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAZP = Generalised Anti-(P-)Zombie Principle < 1267449437 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking GLUT = GL Utility Toolkit < 1267449447 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267449499 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see how confusing that acronym mismatch would make the page title < 1267449514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1267449523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is a cube... CONSCIOUS???? < 1267449540 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: as it's GLUT, the question would work better with teapots < 1267449549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to remember that shape < 1267449564 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: anyway - it's just a bunch of triangles < 1267449585 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, that the Utah Teapot was accidentally drawn at the wrong scale originally (as in, vertical scale != horizontal scale), so it looks rather different in the demos than it does in real life < 1267449605 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could also save in a giant lookup table < 1267449792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the Utah Teapot is conscious, is it a Mormon? < 1267449875 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: assuming that's an indicative rather than subjunctive if, yes < 1267449881 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rather than counterfactual < 1267449908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove that it isn't conscious, you nincompoop! :P < 1267449938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, subjunctive is a perfectly acceptable term isn't it? < 1267450044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite bit of the GAZP vs. GLUT article is "The obvious answer is that you took a computational specification of a human brain, and used that to precompute the Giant Lookup Table. (Thereby creating uncounted googols of human beings, some of them in extreme pain, the supermajority gone quite mad in a universe of chaos where inputs bear no relation to outputs. But damn the ethics, this is for philosophy.)" < 1267450063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust Eliezer Yudkowsky to remark on how immoral creating a lookup table can be < 1267450075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads me on to my next question: IS MULTIPLICATION CONSCIOUS???? < 1267450158 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's confusing me here is computational complexity < 1267450188 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, what sort of information density would you need to make a lookup table for a human brain? would it become a black hole under its own mass even if it filled the whole observable universe, for instance? < 1267450201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it would surely be ridiculous. < 1267450205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have such a small universe. < 1267450248 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why can't you upvote IRC comments? < 1267450274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it would surely be ridiculous. [↑ 1 ↓] < 1267450276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have such a small universe. [↑ 1 ↓] < 1267450325 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this seems like a perfect feature for ickirc < 1267450348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use CTCP < 1267450353 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with the one that lets you swap nicks with arbitrary other people using ickirc, without notifying the channel (it relays all messages back and forth, etc) < 1267450356 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc you'd use CTCP < 1267450357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^AUPVOTE messageid^A < 1267450649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh. < 1267450988 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/15838.aspx is golden < 1267451010 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the storm over the australian internet filter, and the person pushing it most filtering out "ISP Filtering" from his own tag cloud with client-side JS? < 1267451018 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the only ridiculousness found in the code, it seems < 1267451030 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code itself was taken from a JS tutorial written by someone unrelated < 1267451035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which person puhsing it most? I am confused < 1267451036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pushing < 1267451039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1267451056 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his name is Stephen Conroy, but that doesn't seem particularly relevant < 1267451068 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, the minister pushing it, that is < 1267451107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just couldn't parse your sentence; got it now < 1267451125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk i'net is censored too :/ just not as badly < 1267451156 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the fact is bad enough < 1267451161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267451170 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Phorm hasn't been switched on yet < 1267451174 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have plans for if and when it is < 1267451189 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have quite an idea of how it technically works, and it would be fun to mess around with it < 1267451230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't its workings well-known? < 1267451233 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267451239 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, by people who care to find out < 1267451243 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it isn't well-known in general < 1267451249 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most people haven't bothered to look it up < 1267451250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phorm seriously freaks me. It's, like, not even your regular Orwellian evil under a corporate disguise. < 1267451263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a paper company: something you would expect to see in fiction, down to the logo, website, everything. < 1267451273 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can try things like creating websites where every link goes through exactly 4 HTTP redirects < 1267451283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like there is no cover over it other than the ludicrously unbelievable. < 1267451286 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which complies with the RFC without Phorm, but fails to comply with it with < 1267451301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, howso? < 1267451309 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because it uses redirects on every page view itself < 1267451318 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it goes over the redirect-loop limit if you combine the two < 1267451321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267451334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So would a Phorm-condemned user actually see a redirect on every request? < 1267451337 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267451344 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you turn it off, apparently < 1267451347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, lets the ISPs up all their connection speeds and prices. < 1267451353 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the redirect's needed to tell whether it's turned off or not < 1267451358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meet the new speed, same as the old speed. < 1267451362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, why the hell isn't Phorm illegal? < 1267451377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Phorm apparently used to (under a different name) produce spyware. < 1267451379 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nobody's entirely sure; there's a rumour that the EU's planning to sue the UK for not calling it illegal < 1267451381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that. < 1267451386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in, real bona fide non-approved spyware.) < 1267451421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK Information Commissioner's Office has voiced legal concerns with Webwise as it is currently implemented, and has said it would only be legal as an "opt-in" service, not an opt-out system. < 1267451421 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun: phorm impersonates websites to inject cookies into them < 1267451425 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember why, btw < 1267451430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with UK government positions' names and sounding creepy? < 1267451433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information Commissioner. < 1267451461 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was reading Phorm's website recently, apparently when they turn it on they're planning to redirect pages to ask people whether to opt-in or opt-out < 1267451469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what it is with Wikipedia describing itself and always using the third-person whenever it mentions it < 1267451478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they want people to read Wikipedia without the Wikipedia branding in the future or something? :P < 1267451484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awkward to read. < 1267451486 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's a page about that < 1267451490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1267451493 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=WP:ASR < 1267451498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think the "neutrality" just makes the writing feel strange. < 1267451518 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's that the articles should have no idea that they're on Wikipedia, or indeed even on a website < 1267451528 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say, you can make print versions more easily, and fork it more easily < 1267451599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Print can still say Wikipedia. Okay, forking, granted. < 1267451604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still... < 1267451620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is forking more important than not confusing people who read it? < 1267451630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain does a bit of a double take every time Wikipedia says "the online encyclopedia Wikipedia". < 1267451726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Phorm is ever switched on I'll not use any ISP that has it. Even if that eliminates all UK ISPs... < 1267451743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At home, at least. < 1267451754 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: personally, I think it would be fun to screw around with it for a bit before boycotting, especially as my internet connections are (legally) borrowed anyway < 1267451770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but what about all my kiddie porn?!?!?!?! < 1267451773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267451787 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I hope you don't view that sort of thing < 1267451789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I draw the line at every single HTTP request causing a redirect. < 1267451801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Must you take obvious ridiculosity as sincere? < 1267451825 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, at least I'm consistent < 1267451834 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sometimes produces absurd conversations, which can only be a good thing < 1267451838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Then you are not complete. < 1267451852 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not even a type 1 reasoner < 1267451902 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's possible to be simultaneously consistent and complete depends on your other assumptinos < 1267451904 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*assumptions < 1267451922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I based it on the fact that you said you were consistent. < 1267451932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably that means you've proved to yourself that you're consistent :P < 1267451961 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to take into account the difference between me believing I'm consistent, me actually being consistent, and me believing myself to believe myself to be consistent < 1267451969 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I believe myself to be inconsistent in general < 1267452058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotient types are good. The extensional Axiom of Choice is bad. Anything resulting in a bad thing is bad. Quotient types result in the extensional Axiom of Choice. < 1267452101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But then I don't really believe "quotient types are good" because of that reasoning chain. Perhaps I have some special kind of "undecided" belief that references reasons not to believe it, and pointers to ways to possibly modify the belief so that it is good.) < 1267452134 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your use of an in-context "references" followed by an out-of-context "pointers" leads me to believe you're attempting a pun < 1267452137 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find one < 1267452139 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was just a typo? < 1267452252 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FYI, the world will end on Tue, August 31st, 4500AD a few minutes before midnight (local time). < 1267452295 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a crazy and nonserious attempt to deduce a religion from Microsoft Outlook < 1267452319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: no pun no < 1267452321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1267452452 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about people advertising really expensive cables for audio; nothing new, except that they're Ethernet cables designed to transmit audio really, really perfectly or something < 1267452468 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a cable meant for analog, you can sort-of see how people could be fooled into it, but digital? < 1267452505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't know how technology works < 1267452509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analog or digital < 1267452515 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1267452534 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you do not follow the "directional markings" on the cables, your music will play backwards. Please check that." < 1267452542 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people found the website and started giving parody reviews < 1267452603 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1267452670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back, with a new keyboard and mouse < 1267452693 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1267452697 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get them from? < 1267452737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, ASDA. (My father's house is /also/ in a rather remote place, although not so much so; the nearest place with a supermarket only has one). I only got these because I needed 1, a keyboard with all the keys, and 2, a mouse that works. < 1267452755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I already had them, I was just plugging them in and what not.) < 1267452794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. < 1267452809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This keyboard could do with some weights to hold it into place. < 1267452815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mouse isn't bad, though. < 1267452831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not rubbery, sufficiently clicky buttons, and a scroll-wheel. < 1267452849 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I love the mental image of a keyboard blowing away in the wind < 1267452855 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so fucking ill I want to puke < 1267452861 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no I don't < 1267452861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: Then puke. < 1267452874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: :-) < 1267452879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those fold-up keyboards might be able to do that. < 1267452917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I miss my media keys. (Just for volume control.) < 1267452982 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: same here, although I bound them to super-combinations < 1267452983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But damn I'm glad I have a mouse. < 1267452989 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I used to use play/pause a lot, now I use super-P < 1267453027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubber dome keyboards sure are mushy compared to the old scissor-switch. < 1267453035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least I don't have to fingernail keys I picked off now. < 1267453067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irritating that Emacs cannot display characters I know I have the fonts for. < 1267453073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in those fonts. < 1267453093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, ⊤ and ⊥ won't show, even with DejaVu Sans Mono. < 1267453105 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO CARES < 1267453114 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use T and F < 1267453117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: No? < 1267453120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to. < 1267453126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked before in Ubuntu. < 1267453141 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which OS are you using atm? < 1267453158 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, OS X < 1267453160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X; the computer with Ubuntu on was too heavy and such to lug across, especially as it doesn't really like Wi-Fi. < 1267453167 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/ctcp version is so much faster than asking a person) < 1267453176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Ubuntu here, though. I could boot it up and use it now that I have a mouse. < 1267453186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Linux on Macs is iffy at the best of times. < 1267453193 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1267453246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it seems to work alright in other OS X applications. < 1267453256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody Emacs. Maybe a newer build would work. < 1267453293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just use TextEdit, but I need \TeX-style-character-insertion. < 1267453298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1267453353 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yol have agda mode? < 1267453399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x set-input-mode RET TeX RET. Agda-mode is just an extension of it, one that I ought to get around to downloading. < 1267453406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, agda-input, that is. < 1267453496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"David Cameron: We are a modern and radical Conservative Party" —YouTube front page < 1267453502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radical conservatism! < 1267453558 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise want a good video to watch < 1267453570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly? < 1267453620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epigram is so cool < 1267453622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is agda < 1267453623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and coq < 1267453644 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Omegamega? < 1267453692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ωmega :P < 1267453696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked into it. < 1267453706 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't get it < 1267453845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ωmega interpreter[1] is a strict pure functional programming interpreter similar to the Hugs Haskell interpreter. The syntax closely resembles that of Haskell but with important differences: < 1267453845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ωmega is strict (Hugs is lazy); < 1267453845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support for Generalized Algebraic Datatypes; < 1267453845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ability to introduce new types; < 1267453845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allows writing of functions at the type level. < 1267453852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound particularly dependent to me. < 1267453914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://r6.ca/FewDigits/FPdag2008.pdf is officially my favourite introduction to dependent-types-as-logic ever < 1267453992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coffee_consumption_per_capita < 1267454029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption < 1267454043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what we can tell from this is that when Finns say "vodka" they mean "espresso". < 1267454161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1267454169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, that's unexpected. I've known that we're not exactly #1 when it comes to alcohol -- despite all the anecdotes -- but I had no idea about the coffee thing. I wonder if that is actually true-true. < 1267454172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so back for good? < 1267454176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267454190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, what makes you think that? < 1267454202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current situation just means I'm sure as hell going to tackle this before even considering returning. < 1267454222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, if they have a weapon they'll use it now, and if they don't, I'm free. So I guess you're right, in some sense. < 1267454223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? I mean back at home < 1267454224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Endgame. < 1267454225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monday < 1267454231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returning = to the unit < 1267454237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh you don't know the situation do you? < 1267454241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1267454242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1267454247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll explain briefly in /msg. < 1267454250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what you mentioned before < 1267454252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay < 1267454269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards I will tell about my very strange journey home today < 1267454275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange that thing with the bus < 1267454285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it a catbus? < 1267454307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is that? < 1267454314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Neighbor_Totoro < 1267454321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catbus is more specific. < 1267454329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not *quite* that strange < 1267454337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I will recount it. < 1267454356 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that possibly be not a lolcat reference? < 1267454375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To begin with it was normal, I took the articulated bus from university to the exchange (or whatever it is called, almost all buses pass through that place) < 1267454378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also that single-person kittenbus, that's maybe even more... that. < 1267454381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I was to wait for another bus < 1267454384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still normal < 1267454385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1267454392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then something unusual happened < 1267454398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very articulate bus. < 1267454404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You TURNED INTO A WALRUS? < 1267454465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the normal "front part low for handicaped/rear part high for packing lots of people" in compromise that that bus usually is, a long range coach thingy arrived < 1267454473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the right bus number and everything < 1267454485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SUSPENSE before you said that was INCREDIBLE. < 1267454490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it got worse < 1267454491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it < 1267454530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course I asked the driver and confirmed it was the right bus, and went on it. However later on I saw in the driver mirror the *normal* bus for that line right behind us. < 1267454544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so exciting I am literally urinating in my underwear < 1267454546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I stepped out of the bus when I arrived, and looked back at the bus I was in < 1267454550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said "not in traffic" < 1267454551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on it < 1267454554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the number < 1267454555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA < 1267454568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all together I think this is rather strange < 1267454568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just barely escaped a molestation affair thing, it seems! < 1267454576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, har < 1267454595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though perhaps a bus is maybe not the most inconspicuous vehicle for that sort of thing. < 1267454601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also the driver nearly made the wrong turn a bit before < 1267454616 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: once I went the bus which has the right number, but on the way home it took a wrong turn onto the very busy roads which don't go where I want and it was difficult to get home from there < 1267454628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, huh < 1267454631 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now every time I go on that bus I am scared it might do that again < 1267454639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this problem would not exist if we had trams < 1267454641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRAMS! < 1267454646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, maybe it is like here, same number takes different variants of the rout < 1267454647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect vehicle for the transportation of yams < 1267454648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :route* < 1267454660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of buses, they're test-driving this four-door-pairs monster on the 550 line here: http://www.spheros.de/Upload/Images/Presse/Capacity_Aerosphere.jpg < 1267454677 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bendy bus < 1267454703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something about there being more than one pair of steerable wheels in there. < 1267454704 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a bit ofa fuss about them ni london because I think they can be a bit dangerous for cyclists < 1267454710 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was the other way around... < 1267454715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have buses that are entirely bendy < 1267454717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they go through small towns sometimes, and sometimes they go by the < 1267454724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the whole bus is in the bendy bit < 1267454726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheeeeeeeeeeeee < 1267454729 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster yeah it was scary < 1267454730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The catbus is very bendy, I believe. < 1267454744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, well I'm used to this bus taking 5 different variants of the route < 1267454755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, at least I live close to one of the points it take for allmost all routes < 1267454764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn, wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn... < 1267454791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway another strange thing when boarding it was that it didn't come in to the station/bus exchange from the normal direction < 1267454812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it comes in from north, the exchange being the second station from that end of the route < 1267454840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this one came in from south with "not in traffic", made an U-turn, and changed to the right number < 1267454846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that thing say METROBUS? < 1267454868 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267454889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, autobhan in Swedish is exclusively used about the "no speed limit" German autobhans. (at least they used to have no speed limit, no idea about nowdays) < 1267454905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to. The picture is non-local, though, just the same model of bus. < 1267454912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267454914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like that song. < 1267454934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway this long range bus even had a stoved away seat at the front saying "for guides" on a label < 1267454964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think the suspension on it was under dampened, it kept going up and down for a bit after each bump in the road < 1267454979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is under-dampened the right English term?) < 1267454981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How about the "al forno" and the "resquiat" parts? < 1267455002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quells AnMaster's boring with the computable reals < 1267455004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resquiat means "rest" i think, see "resquiat in pace" (sp) < 1267455005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data ℝ : Set where < 1267455005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ℝ : (f : ℚ⁺ → ℚ) < 1267455005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → {{ε₁:ℚ⁺} → {ε₂:ℚ⁺} → abs (f ε₁ - f ε₂) ≤ ε₁ + ε₂} < 1267455006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : → ℝ < 1267455006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267455006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι : ℚ → ℝ < 1267455006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι q = ℝ (λ_ → q) < 1267455013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fun < 1267455021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_left_sister/4.gif < 1267455023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what language is that? < 1267455025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiescat in pace < 1267455029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell? < 1267455033 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskaj < 1267455035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mine. Similar to Agda, though, you could surely make the definition there. < 1267455041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is nowhere near powerful enough to express that. < 1267455055 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haskal is turing complete! < 1267455059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1267455075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasqal < 1267455099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_forno < 1267455103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does it mean though? It looks like a definition of ℝ. And I guess the mentions of ℚ is for defining the latter as a subset of the former or such? < 1267455131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267455136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then what does it mean? :) < 1267455150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real is represented as a function from a positive rational to a rational. {{ε₁:ℚ⁺} → {ε₂:ℚ⁺} → abs (f ε₁ - f ε₂) ≤ ε₁ + ε₂} means: < 1267455160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1267455170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all positive rationals e1 and e2, |f e1 - f e2| <= e1 + e2 < 1267455181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: resquiat is a late latin corruption, it seems. also, this was italian not latin. < 1267455184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, pi 0.01 = 3.14 < 1267455216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and pi 0.001 = 3.142? < 1267455218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the computable reals, not the reals, because you can't e.g. have Chaitin's constant. But constructivists don't believe in Chaitin's constant, anyway. < 1267455237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or similar. < 1267455252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι : ℚ → ℝ < 1267455252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ι q = ℝ (λ_ → q) < 1267455252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just lets you convert a rational to a real. < 1267455261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any precision, it yields the rational you give it. < 1267455276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cool thing is that you cannot pass any function to the real constructor that does not obey the property of {{ε₁:ℚ⁺} → {ε₂:ℚ⁺} → abs (f ε₁ - f ε₂) ≤ ε₁ + ε₂}. < 1267455282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159265... <-- what I remember of pi on the top of my head < 1267455284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask how it works. It's Magic. < 1267455290 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise please make me better < 1267455309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next digit after that *might* be a 3, not sure < 1267455312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1267455320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a 3 < 1267455325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: BAZAM < 1267455326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1267455327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 3 unless you round it to that length. < 1267455331 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1267455336 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1267455338 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry cry cry < 1267455346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: What, precisely, is the problem? < 1267455350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mooz bothered to memorize 50 or 100 digits or so. I'm not sure why. < 1267455353 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise I have a bad cold < 1267455366 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can do 3.14159265358 < 1267455366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes < 1267455370 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* AnMaster: < 1267455371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about the 3 and rounding) < 1267455371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ...3589797... from my top of head < 1267455372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: Sucks to be you; I hate colds. < 1267455379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ? < 1267455381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1267455386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159 is as much as I know; I'm a dullard. < 1267455387 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise me too the worst thing is I had 100% attendence up until today < 1267455393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last 7 shouldn't be there < 1267455409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless it's accidentally right) < 1267455410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_left_sister/dropin2.php ;; I really ought to read isometric comics more than just when fizzie links to them < 1267455419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: cute, like oklopol < 1267455422 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208 < 1267455423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have to think a few seconds to remember past 3.14159. It goes like "uuh... ah yes, 2 then 65" < 1267455425 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all I can remember < 1267455428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angry that he got his first 4 instead of a 5 on a test :) < 1267455437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: Yeah. Right. < 1267455446 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise it's true < 1267455478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_left_sister/19.gif < 1267455484 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I even got it all right! < 1267455484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: ...3589797... from my top of head <-- checking gives that as "793" not "797" indeed < 1267455489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that could be rounted < 1267455492 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise you don't beleive me :| < 1267455494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I checked M_PI < 1267455498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I find it unlikely. < 1267455504 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise I am not lieing < 1267455505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not rule out the possibility entirely. < 1267455530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that makes no sense < 1267455538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M_PI has more precision in the header < 1267455538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hard to roung 3... to 7, alas :D < 1267455541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*round < 1267455546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps printf < 1267455549 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267455552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just chased by muphry's law today < 1267455553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_left_sister/24.gif < 1267455555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes < 1267455555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop now < 1267455558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, unless it is very cold < 1267455567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1267455575 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise all I know of phi is 1.618033989 < 1267455583 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise and of e 2.718281828 < 1267455589 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.718281828459045 < 1267455594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Panels 28 onwards are missing, fizzie bot :( < 1267455595 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that forms a really memorable pattern < 1267455602 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should memorize more e < 1267455619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, errr... e? < 1267455622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know, but my lookup table has gotten damaged and I cannot reconstruct them either. < 1267455631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, I remember 2.718 of e < 1267455632 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, e < 1267455632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℝ (λ ε → product (map (λ i → (i!)⁻¹) (0 … ε))) < 1267455634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really bad at that < 1267455635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've memorised all of e! < 1267455639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1267455644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you prefer fancier notation, < 1267455657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℝ (λ ε → ∏ 0 … ε ⇒ λi → (i!)⁻¹) < 1267455666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well since it is transcendental, iirc every pattern of numbers will be found somewhere in it? < 1267455671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it something like that < 1267455679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267455684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's normal. < 1267455687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that isn't an implication < 1267455691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that property even more specific than transcendental? < 1267455695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267455698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267455699 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more specific than transcendental < 1267455708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it called now again? < 1267455712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely transcendentals which are normal. iirc 0.101001000100001... is one < 1267455714 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first proved-trancendental number had no digits in its decimal expansion than 0 and 1 < 1267455717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liouville_number < 1267455718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*which are _not_ normal < 1267455720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yeah < 1267455731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats muphry -----### < 1267455752 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other than < 1267455760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, did pi and e have that extra property or not? I don't remember < 1267455769 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what extra property? < 1267455779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one mentioned just above -_- < 1267455780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there _might_ be normals which are not transcendental, i think the guess is all non-rational algebraic numbers are normal, but no one knows for even a single one < 1267455785 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.101001000100001 is normal? < 1267455793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1267455797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ all _known_ normal numbers are explicitly constructed to be so < 1267455822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: muphry is chasing me around today, i said < 1267455822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1267455837 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's muphry < 1267455846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this isn't the first instance? < 1267455853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, you have to be kidding < 1267455864 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267455868 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: the law that all corrections of other people's typos or grammar mistakes themselves contain typos or grammar mistakes < 1267455874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law < 1267455888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: transcendental. actually maybe you need more 0's between < 1267455893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fail < 1267455894 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the most ridiculous typo I've seen on this subject for a while < 1267455895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, Muphry < 1267455904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I expect AnMaster just had a gigantic whooooooooooosh < 1267455908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honestly didn't get it < 1267455910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh I didn't notice the extra r < 1267455913 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: lasting several months? < 1267455914 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1267455915 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doublefail < 1267455924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1267455926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moved r then < 1267455929 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ths is all my fault < 1267455931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, i missed a pi digit, and misspelled round < 1267455935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: fault? this is hilarious! < 1267455942 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is sparta! < 1267455944 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267455951 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccccccxxxxxzzzzzzaaaaaaaa < 1267455975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did the sparta thing... oh right "this is hilarious!" < 1267455991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really didn't think of "this is sparta" when reading that... < 1267456002 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads everything alise says in that voice < 1267456019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a wonderful feminine creature! < 1267456026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, what about "this is fun"...? does that also make you think of sparta? < 1267456029 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are < 1267456041 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no AnMaster < 1267456069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: i may be overextending muphry's law here, using it for any error involving mistyping < 1267456082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, weird < 1267456098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I like it when maths people both (a) only know a few specially normal numbers, yet (b) have a proof that almost all numbers of normal, especially since it involves the so vague-sounding yet sensibly defined "almost all". < 1267456110 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267456112 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Muphry's law is an adage that states that "if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written". < 1267456118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah < 1267456121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In any case MathWorld agrees with your assessment that currently known normal numbers are "artificially constructed". < 1267456125 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was funny fizzie < 1267456126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most numbers that aren't pathological are probably normal"\ < 1267456128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*normal" < 1267456278 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, opinison please http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b7neu/what_are_some_exciting_areas_for_computer_science/c0ldm41 < 1267456283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: ah yes the liouville's constant 0.110... etc. requires more than just linear number of zeros (it's sum of 10^(-n!)) < 1267456299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: did you write that or sth? < 1267456304 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sth. < 1267456305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what kind of opinion you want < 1267456311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: i refuse to apologise :) < 1267456359 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Formal verification]] of computer programs. < 1267456365 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You "simply" write a proof that your program is correct (including that it can't crash). Then you run the proof through a [[proof checker]] computer program. < 1267456371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it says. < 1267456375 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seems a bit patronizing... < 1267456392 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it's just my wiki-hate < 1267456400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the terminology is a bit oversimplified < 1267456407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also i still don't get why you hate wikipedia < 1267456419 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see [[wikipedia]] < 1267456421 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or google it < 1267456427 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's why < 1267456444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd link to another source, even if it would be less helpful? < 1267456451 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_ < 1267456456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MissPiggy: ah yes the liouville's constant 0.110... etc. requires more than just linear number of zeros (it's sum of 10^(-n!)) <-- should that be read as "sum sign (but unicode fail preventing the proper symbol)"? < 1267456462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway nobody said dependent types so foo to that link < 1267456473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no? < 1267456476 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise well the question is "What are some exciting areas for computer science related research?" < 1267456480 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a stupid question! < 1267456482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out he was talking english < 1267456512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: i'm really not interested in engaging in CSnerdrage no matter how stupid the question is... I didn't click when i saw it on proggit because I knew the answers would suck < 1267456513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, weird. A mathematican not using the shortest possible symbol to talk about math!? < 1267456514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't do unicode, so no < 1267456521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematician* < 1267456530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you realise that a lot of mathematics is done with words? < 1267456531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, yes < 1267456536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formally verified proofs aren't really the done thing < 1267456539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even totally formal proofs < 1267456539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course -_- < 1267456559 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise you totally missed the point :| < 1267456568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1267456580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh < 1267456583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1267456585 0 :MigoMipo!~MigoMipo@scandic824.host.songnetworks.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1267456600 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1267456636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ∞ -j! < 1267456636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c = ∑ 10 < 1267456636 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that linking to [[wikipedia]] every second word, like some kind of [[blogger]] is just completely unhelpful < 1267456637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : j=1 < 1267456641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible, AnMaster cannot whoosh anyone, fundamental physical law < 1267456644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1267456645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a joke is only funny if it has some basis in fact < 1267456663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ever heard about stereotypes? < 1267456670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a joke based on a popular ignorance has to mock it to a large degree < 1267456682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than simply take it for granted and then following the usual "joke based on fact" process < 1267456695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to wonder if perhaps swedish culture has no jokes at all < 1267456701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs, just admit you missed the point. < 1267456705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course you can't < 1267456744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just admit that you're wrong! I don't care if you're right, just concede once in a while!" < 1267456749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn. Boring. Go away. < 1267456755 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267456755 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17 < alise> i'm starting to wonder if perhaps swedish culture has no jokes at all < 1267456790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My hovercraft is full of eels!" "You have a HOVERCRAFT? Why the fuck did you let eels into it? Jeez." < 1267456827 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's hilarious, and I don't know why < 1267456889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If all the things you sell have lots of spam in, you should call it a Spam Restaurant or something. And why are you saying spam multiple times?! Also, that singing gimmick is off-putting." < 1267456931 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1267456931 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1267456936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, swallows fly at different speeds at different times and in different situations, I'd imagine. So I couldn't answer that question, but then again, nobody else can. So I'd say that the error is on /your/ part, for asking a question that is not meaningful." < 1267456953 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm reading about neural networks < 1267456957 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, now I'm trying to remember, I actually looked it up < 1267456959 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it 18 mph? < 1267457080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ceiiinosssttuv < 1267457089 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceinostuv? < 1267457091 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this even < 1267457231 0 :ceiiinosssttuv!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1267457233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lasted long < 1267457278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, African swallow? < 1267457279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: swedish jokes mainly consist of taking norwegian jokes about swedes, and swapping the norwegian and swedish characters. hope this helps. < 1267457292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, NO! it is the other way around < 1267457292 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, european; there's insufficient data on african swallows < 1267457296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was about to say, dammit :P < 1267457298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LIES < 1267457300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you steal our jokes about you < 1267457316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should live on the Swedish-Norwegian border; it would be /rad/ < 1267457322 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me that the /only/ norwegian joke is the one that oerhan just gave < 1267457325 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oerjan < 1267457328 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be perfect < 1267457338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267457352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, alas no. < 1267457361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1267457364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be for Norway < 1267457371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have lots more about them :P < 1267457403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there is a site dedicated to them... < 1267457406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://norgehistorier.se/ < 1267457417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now don't steal those and swap things :P < 1267457446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our nationality-related jokes generally tend to have a triplet; a Finn, a Swede and a Norwegian. < 1267457451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that on that front page is quite representative of the general style of them < 1267457457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i raise those with http://www.svenskevitser.com/ < 1267457474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh we have those style too. But usually Bellman, a German and a Norwegian < 1267457483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we usually use a dane instead of a finn < 1267457489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why Bellman I have no idea < 1267457508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we also have jokes about the finns, whose main character is _always_ called Pekka < 1267457518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course < 1267457528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and secondary character is frequently called Toivonen) < 1267457549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and all Norwegians går på tur < 1267457562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a strange way to say that they are skiing) < 1267457563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ut på tur, aldri sur < 1267457571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, haven't heard that < 1267457579 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that taking a walk through the rain without an umbrella illustrates this concept quite satisfactorily. < 1267457586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no that would be skitur. a tur alone may be just walking. < 1267457595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even be a båttur < 1267457607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gå på båttur? < 1267457608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The interwebs tell me the characters in those jokes are supposed to be Pekka and Jorma. (But that's from a draft of a paper from a Finnish university docent.) < 1267457609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1267457613 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: who's the stupid one in that triplet? < 1267457623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or do you have gå = go? sv:gå = en:walk < 1267457629 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical for English nationality jokes is to have an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman < 1267457631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i guess the verb would be "dra" rather than "gå" in that case < 1267457640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1267457651 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the typical pattern is for the Englishman and Scotsman to both behave sensibly but differently, and then the Irishman to do something stupid < 1267457677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Occasionally the Finn; if not that, then both the others. < 1267457689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267457690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vet du varför norrmänen har ett sandpapper ut i öknen? De tror att det är en karta!!" → "Do you know why Norwegians take a sand paper with them in deserts? Because they think it is a map" < 1267457696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very typical of the style < 1267457705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is annoyed that google has started garbling its links with redirecting through itself. now i have to _visit_ the sites to easily paste their links. < 1267457705 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what those jokes are like in Scotland < 1267457723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what about Wales? < 1267457741 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's also worth wondering about < 1267457747 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:33 < scarf> typical for English nationality jokes is to have an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman < 1267457750 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, this ^ < 1267457758 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: ? < 1267457763 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scotland < 1267457770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the browser history button has become buggy :( < 1267457784 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is we don't even swap the characters around we just repeat them verbatim < 1267457791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this was was quite good (translated): "Do you know why there will be a war between Norway and Sweden in 100 years? Answer: Because that is when then get our jokes." < 1267457793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1267457800 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267457849 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: well, that sort of English joke is not uncomplimentary towards the Scottish at all, so I don't see why there'd be a need to change it < 1267457901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i haven't even _heard_ the name Jorma, may be something recent < 1267457936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I believe that taking a walk through the rain without an umbrella illustrates this concept quite satisfactorily. <-- as long as you don't dance while doing it < 1267457991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: brilliant. you don't even need to switch anything :D < 1267458014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, har! < 1267458031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that one works both ways < 1267458053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh you mean it didn't say which nationality at all < 1267458062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was "we") < 1267458076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267458103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, if it is against the Norwegians, then it is clearly them who are stupid. But if it is used against the Swedish, it is obviously meant to be read as "Norwegian jokes are so far fetched" < 1267458103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267458116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_obviously_ < 1267458136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see it works both ways both ways! < 1267458142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a typo) < 1267458168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know much about SCTP here btw? < 1267458237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw the same joke about the war is essentially no. 5 on svenskevitser.com < 1267458264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although generously with only 40 years < 1267458278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see, we are way smarter than you! < 1267458279 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, Sweden's going to attack first < 1267458291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: ooh < 1267458338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, I doubt it. By that point the gov will have cut the army funds so we have 2 soldiers (hey at least that is one more than Lancre!) < 1267458426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well still, don't go to work against Lancre. i hear their grannies are something fierce. < 1267458430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*war < 1267458449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats Muphry with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1267458556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1267458624 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267458828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's old < 1267458842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what's old? < 1267458845 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your old < 1267458857 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of you < 1267458892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about our old < 1267458908 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about my old < 1267458919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is cutting the army funds really a big problem? < 1267458920 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will it survive in the cold? < 1267458924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like anyone's bombing sweden :P < 1267458934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot what was old XD < 1267459047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hi there, what do you think of this very early draft for a replacement for SOCK/SCKE (which have a number of issues, such as unix sockets being impossible due to the flag being below the address, and the address being either an ipv4 ip in one cell, or a 0gnirts, which means you can't know which format it is in): http://sprunge.us/OJFX < 1267459145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the cutting of the army funds before WW2 was a big issue in norway... < 1267459181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweden wisely had not done so, and weren't invaded. or something like that. < 1267459193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's before ww2 < 1267459198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, actually we had cut them somewhat too, but not as much iirc < 1267459223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nowdays, Sweden is worse off < 1267459363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1267459596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459609 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" < 1267459629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459630 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125|Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. < 1267459638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 124 < 1267459639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :124| I cannot eat meat that isn't flat. < 1267459649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459650 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" < 1267459652 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1267459652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459653 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> < 1267459655 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459656 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121| My mascot is a tree of broccoli. < 1267459656 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 42 < 1267459657 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42| after all, what are DVD players for? < 1267459657 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459659 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. < 1267459662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459663 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78| ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? < 1267459673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459673 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to get quotes by a particular person? < 1267459674 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100| Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1267459678 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 84 < 1267459680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84| Porn. There, see? < 1267459682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yes, use sgeo's text file of them < 1267459684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and grep it < 1267459684 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 81 < 1267459685 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81| What is there to talk about besides gay slang? < 1267459686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping Sgeo link us < 1267459689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's not here < 1267459696 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1267459700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1267459706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267459708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link us to the file < 1267459710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz kthx < 1267459723 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on < 1267459726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459727 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98| ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" < 1267459732 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 3 < 1267459733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3| EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" < 1267459736 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 5 < 1267459737 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5| Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. < 1267459740 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 7 < 1267459740 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7| that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop < 1267459742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459743 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> < 1267459743 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 11 < 1267459745 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11| TODO: sex life < 1267459746 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 13 < 1267459747 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13|* ehird has joined #lobby hmmm clean me < 1267459750 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 17 < 1267459751 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17| :d <(I can lick my nose!) < 1267459752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: your random number generator is either too good or too bad < 1267459752 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 18 < 1267459753 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. < 1267459756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459757 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71| If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. < 1267459759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459760 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. < 1267459760 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://209.20.80.194/sgeo/quotes.txt < 1267459765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: thx < 1267459767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: ^ < 1267459768 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1267459770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://209.20.80.194/sgeo/quotes.txt < 1267459776 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rubs eyes < 1267459780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Monday morning and alise is here? < 1267459782 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267459785 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57| `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that < 1267459802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's Complicated(TM). < 1267459811 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you add extra quotes < 1267459817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Complicated(TM)! < 1267459823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: NOBODY TELL HIM < 1267459851 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will give cake to the first person that does < 1267459853 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll try to look at after I regain consciousness < 1267459874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tl;dr a larger, but much less straining crisis is currently happening and I don't have the strength to keep up the regular facade until it is resolved... so I'm not attending. Of course if they're right about being able to section me this won't last long. < 1267459882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think there's an awful lot of bluff to that statement. < 1267459891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You're a p-zombie?! < 1267459892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAA < 1267459901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MIIIIIIIIIIIINDS < 1267459901 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1267459908 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to do something today < 1267459909 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it... < 1267459949 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right! < 1267459960 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | 0 days since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | cpressey: You're a p-zombie?! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267459984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :alise sighting counter currently out of order | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267459985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I'll try to look at after I regain consciousness <-- what happened? < 1267459988 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really needs to go wash some clothes and get ready for school < 1267460021 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The washer in the house is broken but the dryer works fine. Every morning, I just wash what I need >.> < 1267460061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing special, just Monday morning. < 1267460073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Have you tried PURE CAFFEINE? < 1267460110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1267460111 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70| Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you. < 1267460114 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1267460115 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1267460115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: also < 1267460117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote oklopol < 1267460118 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 50| < 1267460123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a ... sort of search. < 1267460132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote oklopol < 1267460133 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 50| < 1267460135 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is HackEgo secure? < 1267460136 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, I just scammed BlogNomic back into existence; we'd been playing a different nomic for the last 4 years, but it just took one blog post (not even a proposal) to fix it < 1267460141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: no, you could root it if you wanted < 1267460143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't < 1267460148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: wow, what happened? < 1267460150 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, linky? < 1267460151 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267460158 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanted to do, uh < 1267460161 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run sudo rm -rf / < 1267460165 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blognomic.com/archive/the_switch_never_happened/ < 1267460166 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an ` at front < 1267460200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Please don't. < 1267460205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an honour system bot. < 1267460209 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in? < 1267460210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do whatever you want. < 1267460213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but? < 1267460217 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought it had protection against that sort of thing < 1267460219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But please don't abuse it. < 1267460221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: nope < 1267460223 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, how would you enter the sudo password? < 1267460225 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267460230 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh sudo rm -rf / < 1267460236 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean `run < 1267460236 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.18678: line 1: sudo: command not found < 1267460237 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know EgoBot is protected against that < 1267460238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: you can easily elevate to root. also, that's egobot not hackbot < 1267460245 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep < 1267460251 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, you really really mean `run < 1267460254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can't you always revert such a change? < 1267460262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not necessarily < 1267460265 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls < 1267460266 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ hentai \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ porn.jpg \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.18724 < 1267460267 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: rm -rf / --no-protect-root < 1267460268 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I was testing out a different bot, which was protected < 1267460270 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works better < 1267460271 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: I know < 1267460273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm porn.jpg < 1267460274 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460277 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I normally omit that last bit < 1267460284 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRI-F TIME < 1267460301 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about protecting root? < 1267460316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, tree huggers going insane! < 1267460318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what < 1267460325 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1267460325 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1267460333 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd / < 1267460335 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460338 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267460339 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ hentai \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.18973 < 1267460347 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd / && ls < 1267460347 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, it doesn't keep that state < 1267460352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, need run < 1267460354 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i remove one more thing < 1267460355 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd / && ls < 1267460356 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267460363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: sure. < 1267460369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we allow one destructive change. just takes a few hours to put back < 1267460375 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1267460388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1267460407 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -r hentai < 1267460408 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460411 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267460412 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.19164 < 1267460415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, you removed the vital file < 1267460420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the core system file for the sandbox < 1267460420 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said < 1267460423 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TRI-F TIME" < 1267460425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck man < 1267460428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1267460428 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRI-F being FAMILY FRIENDLY FILTER < 1267460435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shut down the bot please, it's exposed < 1267460443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You realise that now that's removing files on /Gregor's hard disk/? < 1267460451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file * < 1267460451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hentai was the pointer to the outer system. < 1267460452 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "one destructive change" < 1267460452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*: ERROR: cannot open `*' (No such file or directory) < 1267460456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267460473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file * | tr '\n' '-' < 1267460474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Yes, but not catastrophic change < 1267460475 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin: directory-cube2.base64: ASCII text-cube2.jpg: JPEG image data, JFIF standard 1.01-help.txt: ASCII text-huh: ASCII English text-paste: directory-poetry.txt: ASCII text-quotes: directory-share: directory-test.sh: ASCII text-tmpdir.19248: directory- < 1267460481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1267460481 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could I know it'd be so catastrophic < 1267460485 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "This is a file." > porn.jpg < 1267460485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file * | tr '\n' '|' < 1267460486 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460486 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin: directory|cube2.base64: ASCII text|cube2.jpg: JPEG image data, JFIF standard 1.01|help.txt: ASCII text|huh: ASCII English text|paste: directory|poetry.txt: ASCII text|quotes: directory|share: directory|test.sh: ASCII text|tmpdir.19310: directory| < 1267460487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1267460489 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267460489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works better < 1267460490 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ porn.jpg \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.19376 < 1267460490 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could name it "TOTALLY_UNIMPORTANT_FILE_ROTFLMAO" < 1267460508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You could have looked at the file before deleting it. < 1267460520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we just won't have HackEgo any more, then, if people can't be trusted with it < 1267460528 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean: I can't be trusted with it < 1267460533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file * | tr '\n\t' '| ' < 1267460534 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin: directory|cube2.base64: ASCII text|cube2.jpg: JPEG image data, JFIF standard 1.01|help.txt: ASCII text|huh: ASCII English text|paste: directory|poetry.txt: ASCII text|porn.jpg: ASCII text|quotes: directory|share: directory|test.sh: ASCII text|tmpdir.19427: directory| < 1267460534 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just block me from doing anything harmful and you're ok < 1267460536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er? < 1267460542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err* < 1267460544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: We prefer people to be responsible, usually. < 1267460557 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267460558 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ porn.jpg \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.19470 < 1267460561 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd / && ls < 1267460563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460580 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happened? < 1267460581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd / && ls < 1267460582 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267460584 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat poetry.txt < 1267460585 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Poem -- Roses are red, violets are free. In Soviet Russia, you love me. < 1267460599 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I accidentally removed the mislabeled most vital file on gregor's hard drive < 1267460603 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy? < 1267460610 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat porn.jpg < 1267460610 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a file. < 1267460613 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, guys < 1267460618 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there no UNDELETE on this system < 1267460622 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME ON, EVEN MS-DOS HAD IT! < 1267460661 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this ext2 or ext3 < 1267460677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see /msg < 1267460680 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka shut up < 1267460700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mount | tr '\n' '|' < 1267460701 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)|none on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec)|none on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec)|udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,size=10240k,mode=755)|/dev/disk/by-label/PRGMRDISK1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered)|tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,mode=755)|tmpfs on /dev/shm type < 1267460734 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cal < 1267460735 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 2010 \ Sa Su Mo Tu We Th Fr \ 1 2 3 4 5 \ 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 \ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 \ 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 \ 27 28 29 30 31 \ < 1267460771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mount | tail -n 2 | tr '\n' '|' < 1267460772 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc on /var/chroots/egobot/proc type proc (rw)|/sys on /var/chroots/egobot/sys type sysfs (rw)| < 1267460777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267460788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: gregor's an op here you know < 1267460795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll prolly be banned he doesn't like people abusing hackego < 1267460800 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1267460801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when it affects the host machine < 1267460806 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You told me i can do one destructive change < 1267460810 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't specify anything else! < 1267460813 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` head /dev/urandom > sex.jpg < 1267460814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i didn't think you'd try that one. < 1267460814 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460821 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I assumed it's YOUR bot < 1267460823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usually/ people have some kind of discretion < 1267460823 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run head /dev/urandom > sex.jpg < 1267460824 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: no. i do have root access to it though < 1267460830 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise what happened < 1267460832 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat sex.jpg < 1267460833 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460875 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to end asiekierka's suffering < 1267460879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo! < 1267460880 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1267460884 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes < 1267460885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y < 1267460885 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1267460885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: don't restore the files < 1267460887 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? < 1267460890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll break it < 1267460894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is symbolicly defined < 1267460897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, you fail at reading < 1267460900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie a pointer to the host machiine < 1267460901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what alise means < 1267460909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll overwrite the drive if you write to hentai again < 1267460910 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo $PATH < 1267460911 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$PATH < 1267460915 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1267460918 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, deleting a symlink isn't particularly problematic < 1267460919 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, n/m < 1267460920 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "$PATH" < 1267460921 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"$PATH" < 1267460929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: but it's not a symlink < 1267460933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fileptr3 < 1267460936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an ext3+ field < 1267460947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing symbolic references to the filesystem it's embedded in < 1267460948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what about the magic symlinks in /proc that points to inodes or something? < 1267460951 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sudo apt-get install cowsay < 1267460952 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than actual files. (if the file is open but deleted) < 1267460960 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267460961 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ porn.jpg \ quotes \ sex.jpg \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.20271 < 1267460965 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh < 1267460968 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /proc has a separate filesystem just for that < 1267460970 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAMILY FRIENDLY FILTTtttt---*ban* < 1267460974 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cowsay lol < 1267460975 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267460982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: stop being a jerk < 1267460982 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a cowsay? < 1267460985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, true. But it is somewhat confusing. The semantics I mean < 1267460996 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to attend to clothing stuff now >.> < 1267461002 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F³?# < 1267461006 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#// < 1267461015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yeah < 1267461045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ext3+? < 1267461046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F₃₌ too, though < 1267461055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the equalising properties in the host fileptr3 < 1267461070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file sex.jpg < 1267461071 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex.jpg: empty < 1267461074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hentai was F₃⁺, so the safety features are off (so that a direct pointer could be made) < 1267461078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see /msg < 1267461085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that fix won't work < 1267461092 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!`run X='!bf ,[.,]!`run' echo $X "X='$X'" < 1267461104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F₃⁺s don't have the Ωγ-base property < 1267461105 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, EgoBot? < 1267461112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: shit, it must have overwritten that segment too < 1267461113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, but upgrade to ext4+. Or did they rename it ext5 yet? < 1267461122 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is jealous that everyone hax0rs HackEgo but nobody touches EgoBot < 1267461125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well i wouldn't do anything without Gregor telling me to < 1267461127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...unlike asiekierka < 1267461128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs < 1267461137 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shgis < 1267461150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's being a real dick not taking this seriously < 1267461156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any objections to me just banning him now? < 1267461156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1267461158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka < 1267461170 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1267461171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you have op nowdays? < 1267461174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267461177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be scared < 1267461180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1267461180 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assqueerska < 1267461188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd only actually use it against real abusers, like asiekierka < 1267461193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure < 1267461212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets a ban on asiekierka (Egregious abuse of EgoBot; ^expiry=never) < 1267461219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: just thought you might like to know < 1267461222 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot? < 1267461226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything since I said it wasn't protected < 1267461230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including by other people < 1267461234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a complete crock of shit < 1267461236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, s/EgoBot/HackBot/ < 1267461239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your gullibility knows no limits! < 1267461244 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HackEgo, not EgoBot < 1267461250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey since when do you have ops < 1267461254 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mine :D < 1267461258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: that was the last piece of the gullibility puzzle duh < 1267461261 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beleive anything ehird says < 1267461263 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267461263 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notice to asiekierka wasn't a crock of shit < 1267461280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what did you say < 1267461287 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/notice asiekierka You are aware that porn.jpg isn't actually a necessary file, right? < 1267461288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: depending on the answer i may not not lynch you) < 1267461297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1267461298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I won't not not lynch you < 1267461302 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't lie, Sgeo_ < 1267461381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, he didn't read what was actually said above, he only have himself to blame for that < 1267461405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't ask asiekierka how much he actually believed now because of course he'll say none of it :) < 1267461411 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1267461414 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I did < 1267461419 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until Sgeo told m < 1267461420 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1267461422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1267461423 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, this was fun! < 1267461427 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have such a party again! >D: < 1267461428 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, >:D < 1267461430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `help < 1267461431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1267461433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porn.jpg wasn't the thing we were talking about < 1267461434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hentai was. < 1267461436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thar < 1267461444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, obviously you didn't read the help output < 1267461449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gawd, has asiekierka contributed a single worthwhile thing apart from DOBELA? < 1267461452 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1267461454 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never < 1267461454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then it was a huge mess until Deewiant almost rewrote it < 1267461461 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also contributed lameness < 1267461462 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiocy < 1267461465 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness < 1267461470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I contributed a single worthwhile thing? < 1267461473 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1267461475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey, I also helped with it. Like pointing out some flaws early on < 1267461478 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267461479 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ sex.jpg \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.21507 < 1267461485 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat sex.jpg < 1267461485 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This file is absolutely fake. < 1267461491 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm sex.jpg < 1267461491 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267461500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Sure, you're not an idiot < 1267461500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc it was me who first made it able to do anything close to computations :P < 1267461524 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, thanks < 1267461529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but yes Deewiant did the main fixup of DOBELA < 1267461534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PSOX! < 1267461539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1267461540 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX lol < 1267461554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pee socks < 1267461566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: FEAR ME < 1267461571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on what grounds? < 1267461574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no but since when :D < 1267461575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's an op < 1267461578 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean < 1267461583 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant did over nine thousand fixups of DOBELA < 1267461588 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over a few chat sessions < 1267461588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so he is < 1267461589 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all lasting hours < 1267461602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowercase chi is a pretty letter < 1267461613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, I haven't contradicted that have I? < 1267461619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, paste it < 1267461622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember it < 1267461625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :χ < 1267461627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :χ(n) < 1267461629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that one < 1267461638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looks like a "bendy" X here < 1267461641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267461642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267461644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's lower < 1267461659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try to write lower case sigma on paper using a pencil < 1267461664 0 :nasa!~nasarudin@203.82.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267461667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1267461677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe not that one < 1267461686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember which one was the hard one < 1267461688 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasa < 1267461705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had lots of hooks in it's or such < 1267461710 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, can I try `reboot < 1267461728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, lower case xi < 1267461738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ξ that is < 1267461745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm not sure exactly when, because i wasn't told when it happened :D < 1267461751 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I? < 1267461753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, have fun < 1267461754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you weren't an op a year ago i think < 1267461757 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1267461758 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run reboot < 1267461760 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267461763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run shutdown < 1267461764 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267461766 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage! :( < 1267461768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. in 1998 he wasn't I bet? < 1267461771 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish sandwich < 1267461778 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ξ ZI < 1267461779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, since I don't think this channel was registered then < 1267461781 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = KAI < 1267461789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, ? < 1267461789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1267461789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c= < 1267461789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c= < 1267461790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : , < 1267461791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morrow. < 1267461792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written bitch < 1267461801 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :χ(G) CHROMATIC NUMBER < 1267461807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't look close at all < 1267461813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, sparkly. < 1267461821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what? < 1267461835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think it's not many weeks ago < 1267461837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, I'm not aware of what that is about? < 1267461845 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK UP CHROMATIC NUMBER < 1267461851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ChanServ- 5 oerjan +votsriRfA [modified 1 week, 2 days, 19:04:07 ago] < 1267461865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, ah graph colouring < 1267461873 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nasa by the way; apologies for the offtopicness < 1267461875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so only years and years before i'm an op then :D < 1267461879 0 :nasa!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267461884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LATE < 1267461900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl making food < 1267461912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making NUDE < 1267461958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you'll have to develop some maturity first *duck* < 1267461961 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1267461971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear that happens around these ages < 1267462038 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1267462105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kidding, i'm not mature either. < 1267462112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban me < 1267462134 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch youtube < 1267462143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that would mean finding out how this chanserv stuff actually _works_ < 1267462170 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should not be reading Station V3 right now < 1267462172 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't need to mess with chanserv that much to ban someone < 1267462175 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/cs op #esoteric < 1267462180 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is enough to op yourself on the channel < 1267462184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1267462186 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or /msg chanserv if your client doesn't do /cs) < 1267462192 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just use the normal commands for kicking and banning < 1267462199 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1267462200 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deop yourself when you're finished < 1267462205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh < 1267462211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait oerjan < 1267462212 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1267462213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/op alise < 1267462214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT NOW < 1267462223 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267462227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*alise@95.145.65.* < 1267462279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah power < 1267462284 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING < 1267462284 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... (more info) < 1267462355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*alise@95.145.65.* < 1267462397 0 :alise!~alise@95.145.65.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267462400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sexier than envelopes < 1267462409 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh, you weren't even on the server about 4 seconds before you joined < 1267462416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i messed up my client a lil < 1267462431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: can you explain the turkey bomb semantics you thought of that make it tc? < 1267462436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wait < 1267462438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just ask cpressey! < 1267462440 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not sure I can remember < 1267462445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that he'll have any clue :) < 1267462455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1267462457 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, the bomb gets passed after each person's done with their evaluating < 1267462475 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are two commands that involve passing the bomb, you treat those as gotos (one forwards, one back) < 1267462497 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, all you need is for the three-trit operation to be something like shortcircuiting maximum < 1267462502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the types are actually completely useless, aren't they? < 1267462510 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to have a defined order of evaluation for everything else < 1267462514 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably < 1267462524 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you need quite a few just for usable infinite memory < 1267462525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shortcircuiting maximum? Does that even make sense?) < 1267462533 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, on numbers with a limited range < 1267462533 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also needs to shave today :/ < 1267462543 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it wasn't shortcircuiting maximum of all three < 1267462544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: also, NOMENCLATURE is basically like a hash table isn't it? except of turkey bomb stuff < 1267462548 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, the operation takes two at random < 1267462558 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: vaguely, except it's tied to variable names < 1267462562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267462563 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a typeglob in Perl < 1267462567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useless isn't it < 1267462577 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expect me to figure that out from memory? < 1267462582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267462590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly sure how to define PUDDING < 1267462608 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either in terms of everything that's in it, or in terms of everything that isn't in it < 1267462612 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have two types of PUDDING, really < 1267462627 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... (more info) < 1267462631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they are indistinguishable. < 1267462633 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you have to allow for removing AMICEDs into a pudding, that actually adds to the amount of state they have < 1267462635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are both unknowable, and have infinite size. < 1267462641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: what XD < 1267462649 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: AMICEDs have negative size < 1267462652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267462655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1267462657 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time you can use them at all is inside PUDDINGs, I think < 1267462660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes < 1267462671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you thinking of the right pooding < 1267462675 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PUDDING that /doesn't/ contain a specified AMICED, therefore, contains information < 1267462686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING!!!!! < 1267462687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempts to deduce the existance of a HUMIDOR in the given PUDDING. The player to the left of the player holding the TURKEY BOMB has to keep drinking continuously while the computer/referee does their deducing. < 1267462687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GARNISH PUDDING < 1267462687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convolutes the PUDDING with recent context drawn from the program. The player holding the TURKEY BOMB must pass it off. < 1267462687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINE PUDDING, PUDDING! < 1267462687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a NOMENCLATURE indicating all the variables unchanged between two PUDDINGs. < 1267462688 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: whichever type has the WHEREFORE AIN'T operator < 1267462688 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1267462689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the only pudding operations < 1267462696 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, wrong type < 1267462697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: oh ofc < 1267462699 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I thinking HUMIDOR? < 1267462721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is pudding < 1267462726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the base pudding represents everything < 1267462728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL BUT removes something from it < 1267462735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFORE ART EXPR < 1267462735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating the entire metaphysical nature of EXPR. < 1267462737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fucking idea. < 1267462741 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor me < 1267462757 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that operation is, at least, relatively easy to define < 1267462760 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hard to implement < 1267462760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I know < 1267462774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire metaphysical nature of an expression is the representation of that expression in the implementation < 1267462777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded into turkey bomb itself < 1267462807 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to have the turkey bomb be a reference to itself; that's one of the easiest things to do in the entire impl, but possible to forget about < 1267462843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, really? < 1267462854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, turkeyBomb = [turkeyBomb] suffices in Haskell, I think. < 1267462866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a distinct value from turkeyBomb, but you can get to turkeyBomb through it. < 1267462868 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to also do it at the type level < 1267462876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, it doesn't type < 1267462879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: mm < 1267462882 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's the issue < 1267462890 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a TurkeyBomb type which is a reference to a TurkeyBomb < 1267462897 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++, at least, you can do it with casts < 1267462897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what I basically did: < 1267462918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct turkey_bomb { < 1267462918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct turkey_bomb *turkey_bomb; < 1267462918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} turkey_bomb = {&turkey_bomb}; < 1267462927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A struct with one element is isomorphic to just that element, so... < 1267462948 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's another possibility < 1267462959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst thing is that you need type tags < 1267462961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything has to be a struct < 1267462969 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1267462969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that helps in this case < 1267462974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have struct { tag foo; the real value } < 1267462979 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you going to deal with the types which are smaller than a pointer? < 1267462982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then our tagged turkey bomb isn't even relying on struct { x } isomorphing < 1267462988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: padding, obviously < 1267463003 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my start at a C++ impl had padding, but only where necessary < 1267463007 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the padding didn't contain values < 1267463020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm; PUDDINGs represent everything minus some things < 1267463031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we should represent the turkey bomb universe as an infinite (uncountably so?) data structure < 1267463031 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING < 1267463032 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if a type's defined to contain two thirds of a bit plus half a trit, you can't have it as large as 4 bytes just to stick a pointer in there < 1267463039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then turkey bomb can be the index to turkey bomb in the universe < 1267463092 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need to keep track of who owns the turkey bomb at any given moment, but that can be done separately < 1267463104 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not entirely sure what to do when it explodes) < 1267463187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a BI_IT is 1.14666... bits i think < 1267463199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so store it as a char and use the 2 least significant bits < 1267463242 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's more fun is trying to combine multiple BI_ITs back into values < 1267463292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a BI_IT has a range of ~2.6696797083400683 values, apparently < 1267463302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure what that implies, but < 1267463395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42:26 and when I stepped out of the bus when I arrived, and looked back at the bus I was in < 1267463399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42:30 it said "not in traffic" < 1267463417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: it was an extra (rush hour) bus going only to your end station < 1267463447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens occasionally in trondheim < 1267463464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:03] alise: hmm; PUDDINGs represent everything minus some things < 1267463465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:03] alise: so we should represent the turkey bomb universe as an infinite (uncountably so?) data structure < 1267463465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:03] alise: then turkey bomb can be the index to turkey bomb in the universe < 1267463469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: does ^ sound promising to you? < 1267463501 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267463521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the drinking game, whenever an INDECENT GRUBSTEAK is involved in an expression, everyone starts chanting "BANG BANG BANG!!!" until the player holding the TURKEY BOMB either finishes their drink and starts another, or falls down (in which case someone who hasn't been playing should take him or her home). < 1267463525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like forcing evaluation isn't it? < 1267463529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finishing drink = totally evaluating < 1267463535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falls down = fails somehow < 1267463541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANG BANG BANG!!! is, I don't know, outpu < 1267463542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1267463621 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS NOT COPYRIGHT INFRIGNEMENT, IT WAS MADE BY PEOPLE < 1267463621 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... (more info) < 1267463687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with negative amiced ... I wonder if typeOf (NEGATIVE_AMICED ...) = AMICED or NEGATIVE_AMICED; it doesn't really matter except for size < 1267463699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for size we want to consider the size if it were an AMICED; i.e. the negated size of the NEGATIVE_AMICED < 1267463709 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooo < 1267463729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUBSTEAK < 1267463729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fraction whose numerator is a perfect square and whose denominator is a prime number. < 1267463730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bigger than necessary. < 1267463730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPROPER GRUBSTEAK < 1267463730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GRUBSTEAK whose denominator is less than the square root of the numerator. < 1267463730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as GRUBSTEAK. < 1267463754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: the former seems to suggest we need a dynamic representation of grubsteaks. and are grubsteaks that satisfy the improper condition improper grubsteaks? so really improper is just a property of grubsteaks... < 1267463770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indecent grubsteaks are totally different though < 1267463772 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so to < 1267463810 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1267463884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I will have types GRUBSTEAK and IMPROPER_GRUBSTEAK, and have typeOf decide based on the contents of the GRUBSTEAK value < 1267463983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if WITH GUSTO is a different type < 1267463990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size is different and all the operations must be different < 1267463992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, I think < 1267464194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267464287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think of how to represent 1 and 2/3rds of a bit < 1267464298 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267464299 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.22864 < 1267464307 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the porn? < 1267464308 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267464319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I demand you think of a representation! < 1267464359 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I just used a separate bit for the bit and the trit part, but I think that's cheating; it does give the right values if you ignore the fractional bits of padding, though < 1267464360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: polish censorship < 1267464365 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the tri-F < 1267464371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Those bits of padding are important! < 1267464374 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fractional bits of padding show up as various /combinations/ of bi_its leading to weird results) < 1267464375 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a wild guess what it means < 1267464392 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Family Friendly F*cking? < 1267464397 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close < 1267464398 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Family Friendly Filter < 1267464402 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both work just as well < 1267464443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Fucking Friendly Families For Fun < 1267464452 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1267464562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype FiveOverThreeBits = FiveOverThreeBits Int < 1267464562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1267464605 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????????? < 1267464683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a slight issue in that i think the maximum value 5/3 bits can represent may be irrational < 1267464707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cube root of 32 anyway < 1267464827 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a Station V3 addict < 1267464925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: who would have thought implementing turkey bomb correctly would require computable reals? < 1267464932 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267464966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267465015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: 0 ≤ x³ ≤ 32 where x is a BI_IT < 1267465038 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's not < 32? < 1267465040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1267465043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: 0 ≤ (x+1)³ ≤ 32 where x is a BI_IT < 1267465054 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you have the /lower/ bound wrong < 1267465064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267465070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's 5/3 bits < 1267465075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^(5/3) = 3√32 < 1267465081 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267465088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^2 = 4 < 1267465098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 bits can store 0 to 3 < 1267465113 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 bits is more than enough, 1 is not enough < 1267465113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0 ≤ x ≤ 3 < 1267465126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is it actually < 1267465132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we want the regular zero to n inclusive < 1267465140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < (x+1)³ ≤ 32? < 1267465240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually say BI_ITs are unsigned, acutally < 1267465241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually < 1267465245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: are BI_ITs signed or unsigned? :P < 1267465450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: heh, NEGATIVE_AMICEDs are (6*log(10))/(7*log(2)) bits big < 1267465470 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bound to simplify < 1267465479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1267465480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Om < 1267465521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: not that expression, no: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=6%2F7+*+log%282%2C10%29&a=*FunClash.log-_*Log.Log10- < 1267465524 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION could easily stay here reading Station V3 all day instead of going to school < 1267465529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 0 <= x < 2^((6*log(10))/(7*log(2))), yes, probably. < 1267465538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So do so! :P < 1267465544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267465548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 <= x < 10^(6/7) < 1267465607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wait, that's obvious. Uh, I think. < 1267465616 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is obvious < 1267465624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not thinking all too clearly atm < 1267465626 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267465711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : theory: it was an extra (rush hour) bus going only to your end station <-- except I don't live at an end station < 1267465712 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1267465735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: so the condition is 0 <= x^7 < 10^6 < 1267465760 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you keep assuming there are an integral number of possibilities < 1267465761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan has quit (Quit: Fucking Friendly Families For Fun) <-- interesting quit message < 1267465770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that scarf didn't comment upon it < 1267465774 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figari < 1267465786 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I missed it, but I will continue to not comment on it < 1267465809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: howso < 1267465853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so what about that spec before? < 1267465863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember you commenting any further on that early draft < 1267465873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, you just commented on it by replying to me there < 1267465876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267465894 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not directly < 1267465897 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: context? < 1267465905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alise: you keep assuming there are an integral number of possibilities" < 1267465916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, indirectly also counts < 1267465921 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because you're working out the largest integer that fits in x < 1267465963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you are. i should have slept more last night :| < 1267465971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when doing turkey bomb < 1267465989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think n > 0 && n^3 < 32 is still sound though < 1267465998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, fucking haskell < 1267466002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sorry, I probably won't be able to get around to it soon... too much real work. < 1267466003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do exponentials with a Rational < 1267466005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not a Floating < 1267466011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, okay < 1267466045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I expect there will be updates to it, so better check in irc logs for last version when you *do* decide to read it. < 1267466118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: it seems to work < 1267466122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure I follow < 1267466131 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, never mind < 1267466138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo don't say that < 1267466256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : argh, fucking haskell <-- I never, ever, thought I would hear you say that < 1267466271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, it does sound like a strange restriction < 1267466328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SixSeventhsOfADecimalDigit = SixSeventhsOfADecimalDigit Rational deriving (Show) < 1267466329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negativeAmicedGuts :: Rational -> Maybe SixSeventhsOfADecimalDigit < 1267466329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negativeAmicedGuts n < 1267466329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n >= 0 && n^7 < 10^6 = Just (SixSeventhsOfADecimalDigit n) < 1267466329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = Nothing < 1267466334 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing??????? < 1267466347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for integer exponents it is trivial to implement. Somewhat more involved for non-integers. < 1267466357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: implementing TURKEY BOMB < 1267466358 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: failing to implement TURKEY BOMB < 1267466359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/turkeyb/doc/turkeyb.html < 1267466362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: oi < 1267466367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: i'm not failing! < 1267466374 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be eventually < 1267466391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about ZILCH? < 1267466400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Value = ZILCH | ... < 1267466412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like data () = (), it carries 0 bits of information and can be omitted everywhere < 1267466422 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun going on over at SCO, btw; Darl McBride, the former CEO, is now trying to buy some of its stuff off it < 1267466437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267466453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1267466464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, any patents? < 1267466467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1267466471 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267466475 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no patents < 1267466485 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bizarre list I wrote in-channel earlier was a list of some of it, though < 1267466502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for that list < 1267466507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1267466511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:14:57 snowplow, grassroots, mobile OE, MPSEB Indian utility co. meter reading, Delhi traffic police, Citibank demo documentation, Disprax (fake screen shots only), Jackson Builders, Aston Villa, NREGA employment census, smnp hardware monitoring, NDPL power, PG Call Home < 1267466516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They own Delhi traffic police? < 1267466516 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a list of companies that they gave demos to, or something < 1267466517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267466525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Aston Villa! < 1267466532 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ownership seems unlikely, it's more likely to be some sort of joint projec < 1267466534 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*project < 1267466546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TRIVIA CONCERNING type < 1267466546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three references: one to an object of the named type, two to TRIVIA objects." < 1267466550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two to trivia objects of... any type? < 1267466551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1267466552 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it wouldn't surprise me if Darl thought SCO did learn all that list < 1267466561 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did own < 1267466575 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, he's offering $35,000, and some people are trying to outbid him < 1267466581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1267466588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grassroots? < 1267466591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the lawns? < 1267466593 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory is that he's trying to drain $35,000 from the open-source community by getting them to buy a worthless list of random < 1267466593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | TRIVIA_CONCERNING Value Value Value < 1267466593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put type information in the Haskell types but I bet TURKEY BOMB can subvert even that heroic effort. < 1267466597 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: again, who knows < 1267466600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ? < 1267466608 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* AnMaster: < 1267466609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try < 1267466615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, can't < 1267466616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1267466617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ? < 1267466626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267466630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exactly fifteen bytes, no exceptions." < 1267466633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a correction < 1267466633 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, if Darl wants to buy it so badly, it must be valuable, right? < 1267466633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's not going to be workable. < 1267466643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, why not? < 1267466646 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I used some padding to manage that in C++ < 1267466657 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until you reach the quarter-of-a-reference type < 1267466664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what? you implemented turky bomb in C? < 1267466666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err C++ < 1267466667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, Haskell doesn't really have the concept of sizes of its values, so... < 1267466669 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was trivial on my machine with 32-bit pointers, but other bits were harder < 1267466670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he tried < 1267466673 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, I just started < 1267466677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267466680 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had most of the declarations there, but no code < 1267466682 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster: < 1267466685 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid tab-complete < 1267466690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rewrite in C, but I want rationals < 1267466718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, note that pudding and "HUMIDOR BUILT UP FROM type, type & type " both have infinite size < 1267466730 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can do them lazily < 1267466739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1267466769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not 1/4 of a reference < 1267466770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is: < 1267466774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A quarter of the platform-defined pointer size." < 1267466802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and how did you implement AMICED? < 1267466805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING is just a reference to everything in a humidor; or, a reference to the entire universe sans one value (so you can just store that value); < 1267466817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, a reference to the entire metaphysical nature of an expression < 1267466827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make the value be a NEGATIVE_AMICED < 1267466830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scarf did < 1267466831 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AMICED is relatively easy; the weird bitwidth is harder than the actual negativeness < 1267466842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, oh? < 1267466844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267466860 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hardly matters anyway, as I don't know of any actual way to create a value of type AMICED < 1267466877 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the rules, you can just specify a variable and its value to declare one < 1267466889 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the syntax for an AMICED literal? < 1267466906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the actual bits and trits are embedded in the source < 1267466911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we only have bits trits are represented as bits < 1267466919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the following 5/3 bits of the source code are the value < 1267466922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1267466932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need syntax? you have the inherent syntax of character arrays right in front of you < 1267466942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now clearly amiced is negative < 1267466948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the /preceeding/ 5/3 bits are the value < 1267466951 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you know how, say, bz2 treats the data as a stream of bits, rather than octets? < 1267466954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it was < 1267466956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = y < 1267466958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be < 1267466971 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you treat the program as a purenumber, and take fractional bits from that? < 1267466972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x =y= < 1267466973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1267466989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the latter is 2/3rds < 1267466990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a = < 1267466993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the former is 1/3rd < 1267466994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1267466997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no esiy < 1267466998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1267466999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bytes < 1267467001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1267467011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: eh? < 1267467027 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: say, you have a huge purenumber < 1267467033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, " AnMaster: AMICED is relatively easy; the weird bitwidth is harder than the actual negativeness" < 1267467034 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANHAHA < 1267467035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually < 1267467036 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can extract one bit from it by dividing by 2 and taking the remainder < 1267467040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Negative six sevenths of a decimal digit. " < 1267467046 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one trit by dividing by 3 and taking the remainder < 1267467046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is a decimal digit here < 1267467050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how wide is it < 1267467057 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ln(10)/ln(2) bits < 1267467060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, is it stored as BCD perhaps < 1267467062 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like normal decimal digits < 1267467062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my guess < 1267467067 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it's stored as decimal < 1267467068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: oh very good idea < 1267467075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do it < 1267467078 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: this may even extend to fractional bits < 1267467080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: collaborate? or am i just too crazy for you < 1267467083 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1267467099 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I would, but I need to get some RL work done by three days ago, only nobody's noticed I haven't done it yet < 1267467112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get going then! < 1267467113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide by 5/3*2 and take the remainder obvs < 1267467131 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, ofc < 1267467148 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source < 1267467158 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain < 1267467161 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all falling into place < 1267467166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no < 1267467177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "The following -n bits" = "The preceding n bits" < 1267467181 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't < 1267467182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you're right < 1267467193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you specify every 5/3 bit value apart from the one it contains? < 1267467197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rer < 1267467198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1267467200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't contain < 1267467201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to speak < 1267467229 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it this way: a literal bit has 2 possible values, 0 and 1; code containing a literal bit, you have 2 possibilities for the code giving 2 values for the bit, and 1 possibility for the rest of the code, assuming all you change is that bit < 1267467249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain it's all falling into place < 1267467250 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :135| and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain it's all falling into place < 1267467253 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, a literal negative bit has half a possible value; code containing a literal for that, you have 1 possibility for the code but 2 possibilities for the rest of the code < 1267467260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: so, wait < 1267467276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bi_its can't just be integers < 1267467280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the fractional portion gets wasted < 1267467283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are they rationals? reals? < 1267467286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not specified < 1267467289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up understanding this < 1267467292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieee floats? < 1267467294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to avoid going insane < 1267467301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a real < 1267467305 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: they're something with... a fractional number of possibilities < 1267467305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're dividing the program < 1267467309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, rationals < 1267467318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yes, but we're dividing by a fractional number and taking the remainder < 1267467328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1267467335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fmod()? < 1267467335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a negative amiced isn't a rational number of bits < 1267467340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it /has/ to be reals < 1267467340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267467351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need a computable real system to do all this < 1267467370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means we're losing some nice things... for instance equality won't terminate if the two reals aren't equal < 1267467377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is the bit width of a decmial digit? < 1267467384 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, TURKEY BOMB doesn't have equality, maybe that's why < 1267467391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: log(10)/log(2) < 1267467402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1267467405 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can even implement this, using 10-valued logic < 1267467407 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it would be a real pain < 1267467412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: but turkey bomb doesn't specify ascii or whatever < 1267467413 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to do it in hardware not software < 1267467416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do we construct the program number? < 1267467433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, you could emulate it in software? By writing a 10-valued-logic-emulator? < 1267467433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh! < 1267467438 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: presumably, as an expression, Mathematica-style < 1267467446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the character set has exactly the number of characters that are used in the monospace portions of the spec < 1267467460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: no, i mean, we don't actually have a defined way to make the text into a number < 1267467464 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I see something neat about, one program containing a negative-bit literal contains 1/2 a possibility for that literal * 2 for the rest of the program < 1267467467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, after all you can emulate ternary systems... < 1267467476 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: syntax is the least of my worries here :) < 1267467479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the character set has exactly the number of characters that are used in the monospace portions of the spec, and they are ordered by order of occurence (not from CLIN_TON; that's part of the older-human-written stuff) < 1267467485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? :P < 1267467491 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, that involves wasting a bit of memory, though, and TURKEY BOMB dislikes padding < 1267467499 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe < 1267467512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, well write it in VHDL then! < 1267467517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1267467522 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is TURKEY BOBM < 1267467522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: oh, wait, the article is in ASCII, and it says it originates from the late 90s < 1267467529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ASCII would have been used then < 1267467542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, as they wouldn't DARE reinterpreting the monospace things from the spec for... some reason, it's ASCII < 1267467559 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: take a turkey (preferably, a real, live turkey), or a time bomb (preferably, a real, live time bomb); preferably both, /securely/ strapped together < 1267467569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, we're going to have control characters in literals < 1267467590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: ...and DRINK! < 1267467654 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, when you consider both the premise of TURKEY BOMB, and the fact that FBBI stands for "Flaming Bovine Befunge Interpreter"... I'll bet the SPCA hates me. < 1267467668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: now ANSWER OUR INQUIRIES!!!! < 1267467673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267467691 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OTOH, the TURKEY BOMB spec does seem to imply particular representations for operators < 1267467692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Where do you people get the idea that ambiguities in a spec can be resolved by asking the person who wrote it, anyway? < 1267467704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the idea that I wrote the TURKEY BOMB spec? < 1267467710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: SHUT UP < 1267467711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you didn't? < 1267467716 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FOUND IT < 1267467719 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is the valuestream separate from the operators themselves? < 1267467724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Discovered mysteriously one day amidst a pile of Byte magazines in a second-hand book store by Chris Pressey" < 1267467726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I believe you < 1267467727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the bottom of a birdcage < 1267467737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Byte magazines were in the birdcage? < 1267467739 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I wasn't under the impression that cpressey had any idea how TURKEY BOMB worked < 1267467740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just the spec? < 1267467746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there anything else in the birdcage if the latter? < 1267467759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The whole bookstore was in the birdcage. < 1267467765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1267467768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a very large birdcage. < 1267467781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a very small bookstore. < 1267467809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You know, when you consider both the premise of TURKEY BOMB, and the fact that FBBI stands for "Flaming Bovine Befunge Interpreter"... I'll bet the SPCA hates me. <-- SPCA? < 1267467809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ ADVISORY ADVISORY ADVISORY ADVISORY < 1267467809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns the type thus pointed to. Also, the player holding the TURKEY BOMB must pass it off. < 1267467815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: so types are values < 1267467818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what are their types? < 1267467832 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the type of a TURKEY BOMB is obvious enough < 1267467849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, TURKEY BOMB::Type < 1267467854 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I always assumed that \ returned a value, and "type" was a typo for "value" there < 1267467857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if \, an _expression_ < 1267467862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can return a type as a value < 1267467864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every value has a type < 1267467866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then types must have a type < 1267467868 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good catch < 1267467873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or perhaps the bird cage was larger on the inside? < 1267467874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there ain't no type specified for types < 1267467877 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe types themselves are untyped < 1267467878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was both < 1267467882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: the most turkey bomb way to resolve this is obviously that not all values have typers < 1267467884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*types < 1267467888 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really implies that TURKEY BOMB is strictly typed < 1267467905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, that's a police box. < 1267467906 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the spec implies it more or less everywhere but doesn't actually /say/ it, so we should ignore the implication < 1267467915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, it was disguised! < 1267467919 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this means you can have references to types < 1267467922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bird cage all along! < 1267467930 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that an ADVISORY is a quarter of a reference < 1267467931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT $ < 1267467932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempt to make a GRUBSTEAK. < 1267467932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRIVIA Y EXPR Y TRIVIA < 1267467932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempt to make a TRIVIA. < 1267467933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRIVIA BI_IT // < 1267467933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempt to connect a TRIVIA to itself and return it. The BI_IT argument is required, but serves no detectably useful purpose (hardcore followers of the drinking game tradition insist that it's for good luck.) < 1267467933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note how the first two don't actually say they RETURN anything... < 1267467946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, no, you can have a quarter of a reference to a type. < 1267467953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just one operation that takes four and dereferences their inaccessible combination. < 1267467978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a type with no value, then you cannot construct an ADVISORY PERTAINING TO type. < 1267467984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADVISORY PERTAINING TO type < 1267467984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quarter of a reference to a object of the given type. < 1267467998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't get to the quarter-referenced value, just its type. < 1267468006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need a value to construct one in the first place. < 1267468012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have quarter-references to types that have values. < 1267468025 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think it's a typo, the spec makes no sense otherwise < 1267468029 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even less sense than it normally would < 1267468035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GARNISH PUDDING < 1267468035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convolutes the PUDDING with recent context drawn from the program. The player holding the TURKEY BOMB must pass it off. < 1267468037 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cpressey copied it incorrectly from the magazine? < 1267468041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no magazine < 1267468045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec was discovered amongst magazines < 1267468047 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267468050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a pudding is basically a universe, < 1267468052 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, copied it incorrectly anyway < 1267468054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convoluting it with recent context < 1267468056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1267468062 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did cpressey find the spec typed on paper, or in electronic form? < 1267468062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updating the values it has to be their current values < 1267468067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but recent, that doesn't mean most-recent, surely? < 1267468067 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would help to know if it implies ASCII or not < 1267468076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's the turn before this one's state < 1267468081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ^ < 1267468089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this question is about your transcription :| < 1267468090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, EBCDIC? < 1267468097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, or baudot? < 1267468107 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is about to post something stupid to Facebook < 1267468114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So don't. < 1267468116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well, don't do that then < 1267468124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMENCLATURE % GRUBSTEAK GRUBSTEAK < 1267468124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perform iterative cypher transformation of set of names. < 1267468129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the grubsteaks define the cypher. < 1267468134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUBSTEAK < 1267468135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fraction whose numerator is a perfect square and whose denominator is a prime number. < 1267468136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractran, anyone? < 1267468141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't the nomenclature? < 1267468150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMENCLATURE < 1267468151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A set of variable names, defined by an EBNF expression that must contain at least one { } (repeated 0 or more times) term. < 1267468151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267468154 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are thinking in completely the wrong terms here < 1267468160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMENCLATURE is a bunch of variable names with some sort of EBNF something. < 1267468169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pretty sure nomenclature is a crypto term, isn't it? < 1267468170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Defined"? Howso, I wonder? Maybe that is the syntax. < 1267468181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something related to transposing cryptos < 1267468190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So {a} would be the variable names "","a","aa",... < 1267468209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1267468221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some problems are referred to as mental exercise < 1267468234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turkey bomb is mental tv-watching < 1267468243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ruins your mind!!! < 1267468248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag irn < 1267468250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fub bip < 1267468255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING!!!!! < 1267468255 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So far, in every college class I've taken, there's always been at least one atheist." < 1267468268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yeah that's a pretty significantly retarded thing to say < 1267468298 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PyXLNL-eHI < 1267468304 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: are you yourself an atheist? or does someone else you know to be an atheist take every class you take? or something else? < 1267468312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an atheist but he's pretty stupid about it in practice < 1267468316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was handwritten. Do you believe that? < 1267468324 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes it < 1267468327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I am counteracting the holier than thou/insulting balance) < 1267468331 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's an atheist??? < 1267468337 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMOUGST US??? < 1267468338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. (No) < 1267468345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what's this about a pigeonhole principle for atheists in college classes? < 1267468361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, with a quill pen? < 1267468371 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all < 1267468377 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, it's time for WHO'S AN ATHEIST, the game show where we hunt down and kill anyone who doesn't worship the father, the son and the holy spirit! *theme music plays* < 1267468379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If only to keep the bird-related theme up, yes. < 1267468391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ooh I didn't think that far < 1267468391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't forget... Robert! < 1267468397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheists are more likely to go to college, because they need surrogates like higher education to fill their life with a semblance of meaning. < 1267468402 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groogger :D < 1267468408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What natural language was it written in, exactly? :P < 1267468431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Oh you scoundrel. < 1267468432 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In truth I cannot be certain... < 1267468443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how comes? < 1267468449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he was playing TURKEY BOMB at the time < 1267468451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with LSD < 1267468457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267468458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he hadn't seen the warning yet, as he hadn't found the spec yet) < 1267468481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought we were in for some LP Lovecraft thingy to explain it < 1267468482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1267468504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spec /is/ /Cthulhu/. < 1267468511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh how I wish it was merely LSD! In fact, it was extract of shoggoth. < 1267468516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NASTY stuff. < 1267468585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did your finding of the TURKEY BOMB spec cause a lasuac violation that caused you to find it in the first place? < 1267468625 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean LSD is not extract of shoggoth? < 1267468660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, no it is lysergic acid diethylamide < 1267468671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want to kill you AnMaster < 1267468683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. < 1267468684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1267468689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, haha < 1267468690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated < 1267468723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if it changes things I had to google it, didn't remember what the name was exactly < 1267468780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i guessed you googled it. < 1267468847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it helps I remembered it was acid diethylamide < 1267468900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, actually Beatles got that wrong. It's Lisa not Lucy. She lied about her name < 1267468938 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lucy in the sky with diamonds" sounds like a weird variation of Cluedo < 1267468945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucy O'Donnell Vodden (1963 - 22 September 2009) was the inspiration for the song. < 1267468948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: :D < 1267468956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, heh < 1267468971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1267468979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: KO < 1267468985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We officially must make a version of Clue in which "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" is a valid guess. < 1267468995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION could've sworn atheism was... Common... < 1267468998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1267469012 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah, I forgot that you Americans had a different name for it < 1267469013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW JEBUS-HUGGER < 1267469032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Many things. < 1267469039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Probably just a consequence of trademark vagaries. < 1267469044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad your system is inconsistent < 1267469048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW EVERYTHING AND NOTHING < 1267469051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was shortly before John Carpenter and I travelled to FSU to steal the Kappa Upsilon Chi's mascot at the time, which was, as fate would have it, a turkey. < 1267469057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How very Xen of you. < 1267469073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You forgot "...on acid". < 1267469076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That was an odd misspelling. < 1267469083 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am an expert on these matters. < 1267469108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Or are you? < 1267469122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Z and X are next to each other < 1267469126 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas alise, not as much as fungot. < 1267469126 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: athame: the ki-rin is a member of the great tail sweeping from side to side, like a child, opened them and brought them many gifts of food and clothing for their relentless persecution of their victims. < 1267469127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on qwerty at least < 1267469137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Kappa Upsilon Chi ("Keeping Under Christ", Kappa Chi, or ΚΥΧ)]] < 1267469137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really irritating abuse of the greek alphabet < 1267469154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1267469159 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that last fungot quote < 1267469159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eta beta pi < 1267469160 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: always sweep the floor. only the beginning of lactation in ewes and was a single, savage thrust of her sisters to have been born on the take. < 1267469167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that's from Discworld < 1267469168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent Buttock Pissing < 1267469174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no no < 1267469182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eat a better pie" < 1267469184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't there any fraternities with three of the same letter? < 1267469185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta beta pi < 1267469188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1267469189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xi Xi Xi < 1267469197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because that sounds silly < 1267469201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY < 1267469214 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Kappa Kappa Kappa! < 1267469233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, I think I saw someone riding a tame ki-rin on NAO once < 1267469243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how that happened < 1267469250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digamma Digamma Digamma! < 1267469279 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: blessed figurine of a ki-rin < 1267469282 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it myself < 1267469292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ah of course... < 1267469293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIGAMMA DIGAMMA DIGAMMA DIGAMMA DIGAMMA DIGAMMA DIGAMMA upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon upsilon < 1267469294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it hur hur? < 1267469304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/upsilon/UPSILON/g < 1267469311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, developers developers? < 1267469324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is the UPSILON? < 1267469344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beta Beta Beta Beta (Badger Badger ...) < 1267469345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the geek alphabet: ϜϜϜϜϜϜϜΥΥΥΥΥΥΥΥΥΥΥΥ < 1267469359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lowercased: ϝϝϝϝϝϝϝυυυυυυυυυυυυ < 1267469364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1267469368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the obsolete greek alphabet.) < 1267469455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, old greek you mean? < 1267469463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's your mom. < 1267469468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still used in math < 1267469484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's what your dad said! < 1267469491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now go figure that one out!) < 1267469502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also he said it to your mom) < 1267469523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm my mother's dad's son's brother's father's granddaughter's cousin. < 1267469548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm my cousin. < 1267469563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= I'm my self.) < 1267469579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1267469589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq isn't lying though :) < 1267469608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, impossible? < 1267469620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267469622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with inbreeding. < 1267469623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1267469631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1267469635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq comes from a real good Southern family. < 1267469641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how you would need to inbreed for that < 1267469651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Explain to the peon! < 1267469703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peon? < 1267469730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is what your mom said (referring to herself) < 1267469739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm my mother. < 1267469745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote unborn < 1267469746 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56| im my dads unborn sister < 1267469747 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drowns in feathers. < 1267469753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cousins married a few generations back. Twice. < 1267469757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why? < 1267469761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making me my own 7th and 9th cousin. < 1267469770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh not first cousin at least < 1267469779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that shouldn't be possible < 1267469780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's not something you're supposed to admit on the tuberwebs :P < 1267469799 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: noo, don't mention Feather < 1267469803 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have real work to do atm! < 1267469808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, oooh feather! < 1267469809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, we're all cousins ... even if you have sex with a sheep, you're having sex with your cousin. < 1267469810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family tree is... Hard. < 1267469825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: add the feather operations to turkey bomb < 1267469826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, a pity can't show intonation < 1267469829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, and so forth. Therefore I have an infinite number of ancestors. < 1267469831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I thought it... < 1267469842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We're all part of the same big family :D < 1267469850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaking Hatfields. < 1267469866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You know, the Bible tells us of all the inbreeding that went on in Genesis. < 1267469882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ooh, do that as proof by induction < 1267469886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If it wasn't for all that Genesis inbreeding, we'd all be living for five hundred years. < 1267469888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, it's pretty mum on most of the inbreeding that had to happen. < 1267469889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He did. < 1267469892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That inbreeding broke our genes. < 1267469896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Indeed. That's how those cats all lives to be 800 years old. < 1267469897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 900 was the top no? < 1267469898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :900 or so < 1267469898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not a formal such proof < 1267469900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s/d/ < 1267469902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, had to happen according to given accounts. < 1267469918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yuh. < 1267469934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how biblical literalists... Rationalise that. < 1267469948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1267469952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't. < 1267469959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what cats? < 1267469969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how biblical interpretists-and-ignoring-a-large-portion-of-it-anyway... justify believing in /any/ of it. < 1267469971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1267469972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't. < 1267469974 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are there any biblical literalists that take the lolcat version as the version that literally happened? < 1267469978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some of the weirder ones do (rationalize it.) < 1267469998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure talking about the /relative rationality/ of Christians is ridiculous,. < 1267469998 0 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-32-128.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1267470001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ridiculous. < 1267470016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, what, there is a lolcat version of the bible?? < 1267470026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lolcatbible.com/ < 1267470027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Awful < 1267470041 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently yes < 1267470057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Revelation_1 < 1267470069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, this makes exactly the same amount of sense as the actual Revelation. < 1267470078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeargh < 1267470079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1267470085 0 :mrbug!~user@unaffiliated/mrbug JOIN :#esoteric < 1267470092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. < 1267470130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Revelation_22 < 1267470131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1267470152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." < 1267470153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1267470154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BRB" < 1267470218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: wait, from what do you derive that turkey bomb actually has variables? < 1267470225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMENCLATUREs are related to them < 1267470232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see nothing about actually using variables in expressions or anything < 1267470252 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's a comment somewhere else that anyone can create a variable by saying its name and value < 1267470258 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any time, including while someone else is calculating < 1267470261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Variables are also declared by any player spontaneously standing up and shouting out a name that hasn't been mentioned yet, and a type to go with it, at any time." < 1267470266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: but that doesn't mean you can actually use them in expressions < 1267470267 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, name and type < 1267470271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only that they exist, in some vague sense < 1267470274 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, I wasn't assuming that < 1267470279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267470283 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all I know, they exist just to mess with NOMENCLATUREs < 1267470306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, wait < 1267470311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say there are literals, either < 1267470317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every expression /must be infinitely nested/ < 1267470336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also says the spec is possibly incomplete < 1267470338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it < 1267470348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you shouldn't assume that it is complete < 1267470348 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there probably are literals, or how could you play it as a drinking game? < 1267470350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why we're making such ridiculous assumptions < 1267470362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ? < 1267470367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: holding literal BI_ITs and PUDDINGS etc up < 1267470373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's incomplete < 1267470379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267470398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT ! BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT < 1267470402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume those are values < 1267470406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267470407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be inserted there < 1267470412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there must be literals < 1267470412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: but yes there probably are literals < 1267470429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that is actually the literal phrase "BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT ! BI_IT BI_IT BI_IT" < 1267470436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or just nested expressions < 1267470445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: so obviously a @HUMIDOR type of pudding "contains" all the values within it < 1267470466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a regular pudding-but-with-exclusion contains all values in the entire turkey bomb universe (possible values or only used values?) except for one < 1267470489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a metaphysical-pudding contains the interpreter's representation of EXPR, represented somehow as multiple values inside the pudding < 1267470538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, except which one? < 1267470560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL BUT EXPR < 1267470560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating everything but EXPR. < 1267470562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one. < 1267470570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL BUT EXPR < 1267470570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating everything but EXPR. < 1267470571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFORE ART EXPR < 1267470571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267470571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a PUDDING indicating the entire metaphysical nature of EXPR. < 1267470571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFORE AIN'T EXPR < 1267470572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short for WHEREFORE ART ALL BUT EXPR. < 1267470572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFOREN'T EXPR < 1267470572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short for ALL BUT WHEREFORE ART EXPR. < 1267470588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFORE AIN'T EXPR = A PUDDING indicating the metaphysical nature of (a PUDDING indicating everything but EXPR). < 1267470607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFOREN'T EXPR = A PUDDING indicating everything but (a PUDDING indicating the metaphysical nature of EXPR). < 1267470615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267470617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those other ones < 1267470621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are somewhat trcky < 1267470635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMIDOR.type < 1267470635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrieves an element from a HUMIDOR. < 1267470645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: is type a placeholder in the syntax or literally "type" do you think? < 1267470653 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1267470653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to use type, so i guess it's literal < 1267470670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMIDOR BUILT UP FROM type, type & type < 1267470670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A structure containing three other types, specified at compile-time, all of which must be different, one of which must be another HUMIDOR. < 1267470670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite. < 1267470671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HYBRID OBTAINED BY COMBINING type & type [WITH GUSTO] < 1267470671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A unified structure containing data from two different types, specified at compile time. < 1267470673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HYBRID.type < 1267470673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casts a HYBRID to either type it was defined with. < 1267470674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMIDOR.type < 1267470674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrieves an element from a HUMIDOR. < 1267470675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does use type indeed < 1267470683 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267470692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, HUMIDOR /types/ are infinite < 1267470704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUMIDOR BUILT UP FROM ZILCH, ZILCH & HUMIDOR BUILT UPF ROM ZILCH, ZILCH & ... < 1267470708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267470731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there a discussion about implementing it sometime during 2007? < 1267470782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wish you best of luck < 1267470796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really do believe I need scarf to do it though :P < 1267470805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1267470815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs 10-valued logic? < 1267470818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he knows VHDL? < 1267470825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because he has thought about it a lot and has lots of answers < 1267470832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a potentially TC model of execution (it doesn't actually have one) < 1267470836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to derive it from the drinking game) < 1267470838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth has he spent time on it < 1267470844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was trying to implement it < 1267470848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1267470849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1267470855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the channel name < 1267470857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at our wiki < 1267470858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then GTFO < 1267470866 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267470873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but I think it is impossible < 1267470876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turkey bomb, like everest, was there. < 1267470878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it isn't < 1267470885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly not < 1267470891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well then < 1267470912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, implement it in intercal then < 1267470921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1267470930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it will be next to impossible < 1267470936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not actually impossible < 1267470944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge if that isn't hard enough < 1267470980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267470984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are greatly overestimating its difficulty < 1267471044 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DONt know what TURKEY BONB is < 1267471096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, ffs... see link above < 1267471104 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267471115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, /lastlog http:// < 1267471124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look for one containing turkeyb < 1267471139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, now I'm not going to give you any more info than that < 1267471147 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yck < 1267471154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that "thanks"? < 1267471158 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267471162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was it < 1267471197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, also it is on the esolang wiki I bet < 1267471207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike AnMaster, I am not a blithering jerk < 1267471208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/turkeyb/doc/turkeyb.html < 1267471211 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loll < 1267471215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey you do that to me < 1267471221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stop claiming not being a jerk < 1267471225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes because i like irritating you :) < 1267471241 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animated from the cover of an edition of New Scientist magazine, February 1977. < 1267471244 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... (more info) < 1267471245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, discrimination < 1267471247 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(less info) < 1267471248 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mrs Smith teaches the blind baby to see < 1267471256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. < 1267471263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, also http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/TURKEY_BOMB < 1267471479 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267471746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if my language was a language to describe values of certain types, and have certain values be programs that result in values of certain types, maybe. < 1267471754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in a total language, I guess they're the same. < 1267472067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, that sounds like my language. < 1267472100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My language", said by Chris Pressey; one of the most ambiguous statements ever made? < 1267472107 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267472156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, OK! The "for real" language I want to do but never will. < 1267472189 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do you mean by "total language"? < 1267472196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Lisp fits the description, if you say that there's only one type. < 1267472202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which lets you model untyped languages.) < 1267472222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A total language is a functional programming language without general recursion; structural recursion is instead substituted. All programs halt. < 1267472228 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total implies that every expression has a result (no exceptions, no infinite loops) < 1267472239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can have TCness, though, with coinductive data types and even emulate non-totality with a partiality monad. It's Complicated.) < 1267472263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, e.g. Natural in a regular FP lang is Natural | Bottom < 1267472264 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a strictly total language can't be TC < 1267472268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's what I thought. < 1267472269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bottom = nontermination, < 1267472276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errors, etc. < 1267472278 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have an almost-total language which is < 1267472281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's good because you can adorn it with dependently-typed languages, and get a constructivist proof system. < 1267472288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types = propositions; values = proofs. < 1267472303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise "let x = x in x" is a proof of anything, which is rubbish. And if you have dependent types and non-totality, typechecking can loop forever. < 1267472314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, it's the magic of codata. < 1267472348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a lot of stuff I'm happy with merely primitive recursive. I wrote a totality-checker for Scheme programs in Scheme once. I wrote it in PR style and it passed its own check. < 1267472372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sufficient for anything w/ a partiality monad etc. < 1267472381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've used Agda, Coq, or Epigram; they're all total. < 1267472389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time you don't even notice. < 1267472479 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh, a program to see if a program is primitive-recursive or not? < 1267472488 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267472504 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, written in a certain PR style, yes. there are probably PR programs that it wouldn't see < 1267472510 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1267472530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's not PR, it would tell you that. < 1267472554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "pure" way to do it is to define one inductive data type and base them all on that. < 1267472565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Mu f = Mu (f (Mu f)), basically. < 1267472572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then a function to deconstruct such types recursively. < 1267472577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus no actual recursion facility. < 1267472594 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ⅋ is a great punctuation mark < 1267472615 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267472632 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have ... different ideas about type systems. < 1267472681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's nice. < 1267472685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Such as? :P < 1267472703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, type checking is a kind of static analysis, and all static analyses (incl but not limited to type checking) can be expressed in terms of abstract interpretation. < 1267472714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... yes. But that's at a metalevel to what I'm talking about. < 1267472719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with dependent types at all? < 1267472731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kind of. Yes, passingly familar. < 1267472772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The difference in perspective when you just add dependent types is immense. < 1267472823 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you're on acid while everyone else is merely drunk. < 1267472861 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, one thing I'd like to do someday is to redo Splint, but properly < 1267472871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: EXACTLY < 1267472874 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually working, and with a set of types rich enough to actually describe interesting programs < 1267472880 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what I'm getting at is, I'd like to design a language without any particular type system, and let different type systems be "plugged in", by allowing them to be written in some kind of annotation language for abstract interpretation. < 1267472904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would in no way preclude the use of dependent types... < 1267472951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds fun. < 1267473005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is your opinion on ipad btw? Now that it isn't as new any longer, and there are (maybe) some reviews out there < 1267473006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too different from just saying "Here's my dynamically typed language, y'all write your own linters for it plz k thx", except a little less hands-off < 1267473044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's probably good at what it does and it's damn flashy, but what it does isn't what I want to do. < 1267473067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Right. Someone linked me this image (related to this): http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2010/03/01/image/288902_Think%20different.jpg < 1267473079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually offensive (as the url would indicate) < 1267473087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe to apple fanboys < 1267473089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267473091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally SFW though < 1267473092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iSpace < 1267473099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ooh that would be the next step < 1267473109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a totally flat 2d plane underneath all of space itself < 1267473113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... < 1267473115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iCube < 1267473117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... < 1267473118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iUniverse < 1267473121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(filling in the corners) < 1267473131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267473325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1267473332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = Mu (f (Mu f)) < 1267473332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nat nat = Succ nat < 1267473332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Show nat) => Show (Nat nat) where < 1267473333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show (Succ n) = "Succ (" ++ show n ++ ")" < 1267473333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Show (f (Mu f))) => Show (Mu f) where < 1267473333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show (Mu x) = show x < 1267473336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't believe it, but this actually works. < 1267473346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some other cool methods for termination analysis that have come out of term-rewriting research. I wanted to play with those in Scheme, but I balked at reworking the Scheme semantics into a rewrite system... < 1267473347 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it need flexible instance < 1267473354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; and undecidable instances too < 1267473363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutually recursive typeclass instances. Fuck yeah. < 1267473402 0 :mrbug!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267473670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally do not get it. Well, not totally. Actually I get the idea. Just not the mechanics. < 1267473704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have to realize, I'm living in a code-world where people still say things like d["%s_%s" % (a, b)] = c < 1267473724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that sort of stuff died with Perl 4 < 1267473798 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't legal Perl4, surely? < 1267473825 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no, in Perl 4 it would be $d{"$a_$b"} = $c; < 1267473833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the IDEA is Perl 4-ish. < 1267473861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when you can't store a dictionary inside a dictionary, well, you compose keys. < 1267473861 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd write it $d{$a,$b} = $c < 1267473871 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where, instead of using _ to compose the keys, it uses the value of $; < 1267473882 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is by default ASCII 28, on the basis that you probably weren't using it for anything else < 1267473899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be better style, then. < 1267473907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1267473909 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical nowadays would be $d{$a}->{$b} = $c < 1267473919 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unlike C, you don't have to set up all the subhashes, they autovivify < 1267473929 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so messing with $; is rather deprecated nowadays < 1267474045 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: That's exactly my point, or at least part of it. This is Python, where there is no such restriction against storing dicts in dicts. Why are keys being computed? Makes them hell to cross-reference. < 1267474059 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah < 1267474109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of my higher point was, in this world, decidable *anything* is a dream -- dependent types are too much to hope for... < 1267474407 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, when the type system is C++'s, ... I'm sure that's hardly better... < 1267474567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm a pessimist, so of course I realise that the only way any of this can work is in my grand unified redesign of all of computing. A pessimistic idealist. What a thing. < 1267474592 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey, I'm a /cynical/ idealist, which is even more ridiculous < 1267474617 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1267474621 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types are real < 1267474633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be a pessimist idealist, and I probably should have stayed one. < 1267474647 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what are you now? < 1267474652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: he never denied that < 1267474658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe I still am, at heart. < 1267474688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Now I'm up a certain creek without a paddle :) < 1267474706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there's that pessimism coming back! < 1267474785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: Yes, in case there was any confusion, I meant only that people *using* dependent types in 90%+ of the industry is a pipe dream. < 1267474824 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1267474839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, here it comes < 1267474847 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think BF compilers should use dependent types < 1267474856 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dependent type inference < 1267474867 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to work out what a program is actually doing, rather than just peephole-optimising < 1267474957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But peephole optimisation is so very *easy*! < 1267474986 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267475051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this connection still work? < 1267475085 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, apparently it does... < 1267475208 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you're imagining things < 1267475274 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhcpcd took a SIGKILL and then was restarted... < 1267475326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is tex for dot product? < 1267475333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\cdot? < 1267475336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks < 1267475361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and normal product? < 1267475371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\times... < 1267475375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs < 1267475379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too tired for this < 1267475383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267475388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait isn't that vector product? < 1267475396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a non-vector related scalar product < 1267475428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... you mean juxtaposition? < 1267475432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1267475439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to account for your tiredness here :) < 1267475442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scalar product of three and three is nine :P < 1267475459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know: scalar*scalar→scalar vector*vector→scalar and vector*vector→vector < 1267475463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three different products < 1267475472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need three different symbols to not confuse things < 1267475474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :product of a and b is ab < 1267475479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a and b are scalars < 1267475481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267475488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah and product of |a| and |b| is unreadable < 1267475494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tough shit < 1267475496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a||b| < 1267475496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use \times < 1267475501 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the word "times" < 1267475505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_product says |a| |b| < 1267475509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just deal with it < 1267475512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, NO the point of this is unicode < 1267475532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want add some spacing < 1267475588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that could work < 1267475778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly alternatives: use the explicit a^T b for the dot product, then you can use the center-dot for multiplying scalars if you really need something there. Or the angle brackets for general inner product in place of the dot product, and the same thing. < 1267475868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the spacing of \left|a\right| \left|b\right| at least here is readable enough; there's a natural gap in-between, and the |s are closer to the letters than other |s. < 1267475894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just write it as "|a||b|" then it won't look right, of course. < 1267475905 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a|b| < 1267475917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus :: Nat -> Nat -> Nat < 1267475917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus x = rec (\_ -> x) (\_ z -> suc z) < 1267475917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :times :: Nat -> Nat -> Nat < 1267475918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :times x = rec (\_ -> zero) (\_ z -> plus x z) < 1267475918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, structural recursion < 1267475923 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck YOU! < 1267475929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1267476002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was an offer, not an insult. < 1267476063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fact (suc (suc (suc zero))) < 1267476063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Zig ()) < 1267476064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SO SUCCESSFUL < 1267476128 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faftstawfpa4d < 1267476143 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise what should I code < 1267476170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a core total, dependently-typed language! like I'm doing except in Haskell! < 1267477120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up. < 1267477127 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This code makes my soul bleed. < 1267477138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Eat some functionality. < 1267477144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has good warming properties. < 1267477150 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1267477174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to some KMFDM < 1267477247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267477302 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267477327 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267477773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to unify my uber-simple-auto-optimised-language-with-everything-as-one-basic-structure-that-acts-as-values-as-types-and-certain-values-being-programs omegalanguage with my total-functional-dependent-types-oh-me-oh-my omegalanguage. < 1267477843 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hypothetically, how would someone unify chinese and english? < 1267477869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They wouldn't. But natural languages are mishmash and already extant; these are mere concepts that I can bend to my will. < 1267477894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use directed graphs for the former - a graph is the type of the graph of the same structure, the type of something like 42 is the ur-element of natural numbers; either 0 or 1+1+1+1... = infinity. < 1267477909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type of a list of as would be [urelement a] < 1267477915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although lists would just be sugar over graphs < 1267477919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, everything would be. < 1267477993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a unicode character that's like => without the =? < 1267478001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a very small straight two lines and then > < 1267478058 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/04/index.html < 1267478066 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be here, beats me < 1267478081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1267478111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call a digraph with named arcs? < 1267478123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just arcs with an extra piece of info attached to them that no other arc with the same head shares, I guess. < 1267478207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it has a particular name. < 1267478228 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annotated, heh < 1267478241 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A digraph with labelled edges, is actually what I'd probably call iot < 1267478243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1267478297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks it is the fundamental structure of everything. < 1267478321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list is 'head -> x. 'tail -> another list. A vector is 0,1,2,... -> element. < 1267478339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A natural is 'pred -> another natural or 'zero. < 1267478349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long live ASCII bells < 1267478356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now how many got beeped by that?) < 1267478369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not i. < 1267478370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not I < 1267478375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't expect that < 1267478395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unordered set has no annotations. < 1267478403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the annotation is optional? But that seems rubbish. < 1267478423 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII bells, ASCII bells, ASCII all the way < 1267478426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I still need to define a way to reduce graphs to do computation. < 1267478431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh what fun it is to ASCII all your console friends awaaaay < 1267478435 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A weighted digraph is a digraph with weights assigned for its arcs" < 1267478457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not weights, just arbitrary tags < 1267478495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267478514 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267478532 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net < 1267478596 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary usually means optional, sometimes < 1267478645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totalAge 'people :> {+ ::> people ? 'age} < 1267478649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1267478746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/848777.txt?key=ohkyy1lvvdow7fk8lxaraq < 1267478749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A drawing of that graphs. < 1267478750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*graph < 1267478814 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Whatever you're talking about is reminding me of Category Theory. < 1267478824 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows, arrows, arrows. < 1267478824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category theory is fun but not what I'm on about. < 1267478829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just graphs. < 1267478832 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it people irritate me so much < 1267478833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows? < 1267478845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I'm trying to figure out the most elegant way of doing computation with graphs on graphs. < 1267478857 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows and monads! < 1267478877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphs. < 1267478877 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I like the eodermdrome method, but there's probably another < 1267478929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yes, well, mine's meant to be not so ridiculous :) < 1267478938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, eodermdrome doesn't have cyclic graphs does it? < 1267478946 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcda < 1267478950 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not what you mean? < 1267478964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is < 1267478969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean graphs with internal cycles < 1267478970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1267478971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree :: {'left :> {'left :> 1; 'right :> 3}; 'right :> {'left :> 2; 'right :> 4}} < 1267478978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need anonymous nodes < 1267478983 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha tthe fuck isthat < 1267478986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not have /all/ nodes be anonymous :D < 1267479039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All nodes are anonymous; there is one distinguished node with named arc to all the "named" nodes, and those arcs contain the names. < 1267479095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of hard to follow where alise wants to go with this design because the design space is so large... < 1267479111 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen anonymous nodes in a semantic web language, where the creator wishes to "reify" an edge--that is, treat it as a node < 1267479119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the idea is that your entire (operating) system, including every single thing you care about, is one gigantic graph-like of some sort. < 1267479123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: RDF? yeah < 1267479129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N3 makes that quite easy < 1267479173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Including all the relevant functions/drivers/programs (stored not as machine code ofc), their data, your data... < 1267479194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Arrows? Graphs? Names. < 1267479197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we need a graph structure that has some property related to the vague notion of "nesting", otherwise our namespaces will get clogged down. < 1267479210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we need anonymous nodes, because naming every single piece of a nested data structure is ridiculous. < 1267479230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An acyclic graph is probably unworkable, as it means we have no pointers. < 1267479235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointers. < 1267479243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1267479267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single piece of data is named, isn't it? Otherwise how do you get to it? < 1267479286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "named" I mean, there's pointers to it, from other pieces of data. Maybe not explicit ones. < 1267479300 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1267479313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point. < 1267479339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are right. Annotated arcs are the same thing as non-anonymous nodes. < 1267479340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to put it into words... there are graphs everywhere already, but they're... what's the word? Latent? < 1267479357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are many, many ways to make them explicit. < 1267479409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh what fun it is to ASCII all your console friends awaaaay <-- so you got beeped? < 1267479417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No < 1267479419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267479459 0 :Libster!~Libster@pool-74-103-90-165.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267479579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/848803.txt?key=bybdg9fl0pwv1vrtme9q < 1267479594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annotated arcs and anonymous nodes: cancelling each other out since today. < 1267479612 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise shut up < 1267479618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1267479619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1267479621 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop taking your anger out on me < 1267479629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1267479638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't even mentioned your name in... forever? < 1267479640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually my anger. alise is just borrowing it < 1267479646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My reasonably raw bip bouncer log doesn't show any suspicious ASCII characters in your long-live comment. I guess it's possible the log is filtered, but are you sure freenode's +c filtering doesn't remove ^G too? < 1267479649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: no but seriously what? < 1267479692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe it does since the ircd switch < 1267479695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so how sad < 1267479731 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267480002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://dev.freenode.net/ircd-seven/browser/include/inline/stringops.h#L57 < 1267480019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sad < 1267480051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1267480068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: My graphs have ceased entirely to be graphs at all, because you can have multiple nodes with the same value. < 1267480070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't kosher, is it? < 1267480071 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-162-149-19.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267480111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wait, I thought only the arcs had values? In which case 2 arcs with different labels can point to the same node, yes. < 1267480145 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so different from symlinks... < 1267480155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aliasing. < 1267480161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised that if you allow duplicate nodes, all anonymous nodes + annotated arcs = normal nodes + normal arcs. < 1267480165 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267480174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But allowing duplicate nodes means it isn't a graph any more. < 1267480201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose not. < 1267480220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get from graph (set of nodes, set of edges) a multigraph if you make the edge-set a multiset, but I'm not sure what you get if you make the node-set a multiset too. < 1267480297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly a multi²graph. < 1267480305 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267480315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a directed multi^2graph might be what I want < 1267480327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I want a multigraph, otherwise you couldn't have one object in two lists (right?) < 1267480344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mathematical discipline of graph theory, a graph labeling is the assignment of labels, traditionally represented by integers, to the edges or vertices, or both, of a graph.[1] < 1267480370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really been following the context in which your graph lives here; I was busy with my look-up table of ircd sources. < 1267480383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't found a graph-theory anonymous-graph though < 1267480389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Of course you can't have one object in two lists. Unless a) those two lists share a tail, and the object is in the tail, or b) the list really only contains a pointer to the object. < 1267480405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's a graph, everything is a pointer :P < 1267480423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they can't share a tail unless you can have multiple pointers to one node < 1267480431 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what you want is the same point in two different lists! < 1267480436 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointer < 1267480436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Graphs as the most generalest of all data structures: http://pastie.org/848825.txt?key=das1exf0bvjldwzy6lmag < 1267480440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Of course. < 1267480446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the whole point of using a graph is that it "does pointers". < 1267480457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But pointers *define* the list. < 1267480479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the same pointer in 2 lists would mean they're actually the same list. < 1267480515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's how I see it... < 1267480521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're thinking of the wrong thing < 1267480528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider the value fred. Doesn't matter what it is. < 1267480542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[fred,bob,lark] and [frak,fred,mogul] < 1267480557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is impossible in a (non-multi)graph, because there are two arcs ending in fred. < 1267480588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that since we have no object identity we can just duplicate the object, but this sucks. < 1267480600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. next(fred) isn't unique, right? < 1267480618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next(fred) has no meaning < 1267480620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer to a linked list < 1267480626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of a = nil or cons(a, list of a < 1267480627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1267480634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1267480644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list has two arcs < 1267480652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one to "head" (goes to "fred") < 1267480653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, next(fred, [fred,bob,lark]) might have some meaning, for some defn of next() < 1267480656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one to "tail" (goes to [bob,lark]) < 1267480666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then the issue is removed. < 1267480707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not following ya, exactly... if lists are lists of names of objects, and fred is the name of an object, this is fine. < 1267480721 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if fred is the object itself, then you can't say [fred,fred,fred] < 1267480728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let me show you the structure of a list. < 1267480779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/848837.txt?key=t2z1krwvkltzmo8hmhizqw < 1267480786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"head" and "tail" are just symbols/atoms there < 1267480797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "fred" just means that this arrow points to the fred node < 1267480800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine fred as another list < 1267480808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'd have < 1267480809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head < 1267480810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1267480812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo < 1267480816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ \ < 1267480817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head tail < 1267480903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I am all wrong about everything. < 1267480949 0 :Libster!~Libster@pool-74-103-90-165.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267480960 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1267480962 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267480967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1267480968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267480973 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o lament < 1267480995 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's Libster? < 1267480998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a troll < 1267481005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(self-proclaimed; really bad at it) < 1267481006 0 :Libster!~Libster@pool-74-103-90-165.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267481006 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get trolls her? < 1267481009 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*here? < 1267481020 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://pastie.org/848845.txt < 1267481021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: only because MissPiggy got Libster and ...base3? annoyed or something a while ago < 1267481035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. But note that fred *is not a name*. < 1267481042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'fred' and 'fred' can be the same node, if you like. < 1267481043 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :alise sighting counter currently out of order | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | lament sux < 1267481044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine both those head lines swirling around to wherever fred is, and latching on. < 1267481053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1267481057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a multigraph. < 1267481058 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1267481059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that would be impossible. < 1267481062 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*Libster@*.bltmmd.east.verizon.net < 1267481064 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :alise sighting counter currently out of order | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267481076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267481077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambot < 1267481077 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o lament < 1267481080 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: is that the actual reason? < 1267481084 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love your reasoning < 1267481097 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're right, that is /incredibly/ bad trolling < 1267481098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libster is a GLUT < 1267481106 0 :Quadrescence!~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1267481106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://pastie.org/848850.txt ? < 1267481116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either he or base3 propositioned me for sex the first time (on this nick) < 1267481133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pretty colossally bad trolls < 1267481143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no; the head of the second list points /away from the whole thing/ < 1267481147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to whatever "fred" means in this context < 1267481149 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that IS why you chose this nick, isn't it? < 1267481158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both heads are different arcs, ending at the same node < 1267481165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, partly. < 1267481174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to topple the fascist english pronoun structure through sheer absurdity < 1267481180 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you'd proposition random people for sex over IRC, given how unlikely it is you live within walking distance of each other < 1267481187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out people don't use gender-specific pronouns much on irc, though < 1267481198 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use a spiral to indicate anonymous nodes, myself < 1267481198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Virtual reality is JUST ALONG THE CORNER < 1267481201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AROUND < 1267481203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AROUND the corner < 1267481211 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but then, you wouldn't need anyone real to have sex /with/ < 1267481216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Why did you change nicks? < 1267481227 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey are we talking about sex < 1267481227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realistic sexbots: Harder than VR < 1267481231 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: saw that this one wasn't taken, and thought I might as well < 1267481240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cu < 1267481243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://pastie.org/848855.txt < 1267481245 0 :Cu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough :P < 1267481247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now known as nt < 1267481250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're a perfect pair < 1267481254 0 :Cu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: unfortunately < 1267481256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. That's a multigraph. < 1267481259 0 :Cu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt is not an element! < 1267481268 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cu is an element < 1267481270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It is?? < 1267481270 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: were you lurking here in the hope that the channel went offtopic? < 1267481281 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only see one node at the end of each arc... < 1267481285 0 :Cu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cn < 1267481287 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I'm not sure. < 1267481290 0 :Cn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, this one is taken < 1267481302 0 :Cn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my copernicium :( < 1267481303 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: that's a good enough answer, I suppose < 1267481305 0 :Cn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1267481315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: In mathematics, a multigraph or pseudograph is a graph which is permitted to have multiple edges, (also called "parallel edges"[1]), that is, edges that have the same end nodes < 1267481321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nodes. < 1267481325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1267481356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this include directed graphs where the two edges go opposite directions? < 1267481377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, good question. < 1267481380 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now we are talking about graphs < 1267481386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graph sex. < 1267481389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought graphs can could not have edges that end in the same node were called "trees". < 1267481390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I would guess yes. < 1267481395 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/can/that/ < 1267481414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yeah, because a tree can express cyclic structure, innit. < 1267481417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structures < 1267481425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo -> bar, bar -> baz, baz -> foo: A TREE < 1267481434 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't trees supposed to be acyclic? < 1267481439 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you can have two edges AB and AB, it's a multigraph; if you can have AB and also AC+CB, it's a normal graph; a tree, if you can get from A to B one way, even indirectly, you can't get there another way < 1267481439 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes < 1267481447 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed acyclic graph = tree < 1267481451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my world, trees are acyclic, yes. < 1267481468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: that's not strong enough < 1267481475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so a non-acyclic non-multigraph graph is not a tree. < 1267481477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1267481477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a graph. < 1267481481 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You could require more, but whatever < 1267481496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any vertex should only have one edge leading to it < 1267481507 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's... K_2, or K_1 < 1267481508 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why say 'tree' when you can say 'directed acyclic plant' < 1267481513 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no other graphs with that property < 1267481516 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, undirected ones < 1267481540 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS < 1267481542 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWSIT GOIN < 1267481551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: we're talking about directed ones < 1267481558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm still confused; I don't see any edges "AB and AB" (scarf's words) in my diagram. So I don't see how it's a multigraph. < 1267481585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, uh, ABCD and AEFGHD, or something similar < 1267481593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i read the words wrong < 1267481603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that is, edges that have the same end nodes" < 1267481606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not same start nodes, no? < 1267481615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's AB and CB. Maybe I am misinterpreting. < 1267481626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I thought it was: two (direct) edges between the same two nodes. < 1267481639 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a tree, the path between the root and to another node must be unique < 1267481640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AB and AB) < 1267481643 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW IS THAT < 1267481667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Considering the diagram on the page I concede; you are right. < 1267481681 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3oHpup-pk < 1267481694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think anonymous nodes + annotated arcs is best, because otherwise I have to have dummy nodes on lists like "list" < 1267481698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you people talking about < 1267481700 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1267481705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really just a stand-in for an anonymous node < 1267481719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, what if the name node (= arc annotation) has multiple connections from it? that makes no sense < 1267481742 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, the 'list' labels actually make a lot of sense to me. < 1267481744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice thing we can have from this is that a scope/environment/whatever just has variable names as the graph annotations. < 1267481745 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Clearly we are talking about categorical monadic parser combinators and language grammars < 1267481756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think I'll have a typing system apart from such annotation, though. < 1267481762 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language grammars?! < 1267481765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellll yeah < 1267481770 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets talk bout some grammars < 1267481771 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they kind of reflect: data List = List head tail | Nil < 1267481772 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1267481773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267481777 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i love grammars < 1267481786 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to keep repeating "List" there to conform to the "grammar" of the data type. < 1267481788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i shown you my contributions to wikipedia? < 1267481791 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267481792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I see what you mean. < 1267481794 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o man < 1267481808 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Everyone kept saying "grammar" so I typed it in what I was typing. Scary.) < 1267481809 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember you though from whatever irc channel augur. < 1267481821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##compsci < 1267481824 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267481827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a "graphy" language, we would say that both nil, and any node with two arcs annotated 'head and 'tail, where the latter obeys these same constraints, is a list. < 1267481831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe ##proglang < 1267481836 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chomsky hierarchy < 1267481838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere in that direction < 1267481840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can see why you would want to cut it out though, it's all so.... verbose. < 1267481852 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: do you have to be Ada Lovelace to register #proglang? < 1267481852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. Would you rather right < 1267481853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*write < 1267481855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{'left :> {'left :> 1; 'right :> 3}; 'right :> {'left :> 2; 'right :> 4}} < 1267481856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1267481874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even bring myself to write it < 1267481875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too ugly < 1267481891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1:3):(2:4) ? < 1267481900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/pages/index.php?name=Augur&namespace=0&redirects=noredirects < 1267481901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the same but with tree labels everywhere < 1267481907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you said would be sugar :P < 1267481907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267481913 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaahhhh no. < 1267481920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no to what? < 1267481931 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i wouldn't want to write it either. < 1267481942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267481944 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also added to the Indexed grammar page and the Combinatory categorial grammar page < 1267481949 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: wow < 1267481981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Cool thing about scopes just being graphs with variable names as arc annotations: We can have a thing for "in scope" which lets us add stuff to a graph without naming it each time, and this is the same as our scoping operator. < 1267481996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: the controlled grammar article took about a week < 1267481999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267482014 0 :breeden!~breeden@216-26-97-170.restechservices.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267482017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also relates to the tuple-space of languages such as K: every single thing in the environment can be accessed by a list of names relative to the root of the environment. < 1267482023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, graph of free variables in outer closures etc. < 1267482040 0 :breeden!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267482046 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: this is the very important stuff I have done http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Quadrescence < 1267482074 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see! < 1267482082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess functions should be "abstract nodes"; if we have a natural being {'pred :> natural} | 'zero - so e.g. {'pred :> {'pred :> 'zero}} is 2, then we can say 2 'pred = 1. < 1267482088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is natural to wish for 2 'succ = 3. < 1267482090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pages created :( < 1267482111 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267482120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your omission of 'list labels also permits "duck typing", for better or wose: anything that works on things that have lefts and rights, works on your structure. < 1267482120 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too cool I guess < 1267482124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does this belong in the ubergraph itself or just as sugar in the language? After all, the whole idea is that the language is just syntax to describe graphs, and some graphs are typed and interpreted as programs. < 1267482135 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LAME YOU MEAN < 1267482135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. I'm planning some sort of typing, though; just have to think about it first. < 1267482137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267482144 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah true < 1267482149 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I do write stuff though < 1267482161 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I am writing a BOOK < 1267482184 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267482185 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a total grammar nerd, and i tried looking for a lot of these grammars but couldnt find anything < 1267482191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: In that group language of yours, the concatenation of a program with itself isn't the inverse, right? You have a separate inversing function of sorts. < 1267482191 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i did research, found papers, books, etc. < 1267482198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that part of languagespace is still open for my design. < 1267482199 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wrote the wikipedia articles, for future curiousiters < 1267482210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth: < 1267482210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/reaper-man.html#p1516 < 1267482217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If you have access to the Internet, you can find an online version of this story at the URL: < 1267482217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : " < 1267482220 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Maybe you can help me design some syntax then < 1267482223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they think < 1267482225 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Correct. In general xx != e < 1267482226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a website... < 1267482227 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe! < 1267482235 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since my biggest concern for syntax is making the grammar easy peasy < 1267482243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: APF Chapter 3: Discworld Annotations < 1267482252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/ < 1267482252 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lisp :))))))))))))))))) < 1267482253 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You have to find x' for which xx' = e. But x' exists (well, in the fixed version, it does.) < 1267482254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Organisation: Unseen University < 1267482254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newsgroups: alt.fan.pratchett,alt.books.pratchett < 1267482259 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, grammar for what < 1267482262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nuff said < 1267482270 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: a programmin' lang' < 1267482275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Right. What I'd like is xx = e. < 1267482282 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1267482283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm good point < 1267482290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most programming languages have context free grammars < 1267482292 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1267482308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... good luck. :) < 1267482320 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I shouldn't be simple < 1267482323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That ... is the sound of the language being useless, isn't it? < 1267482326 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should be complex but elegant < 1267482338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is the sound of my brain stopping. < 1267482345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: its often quite hard to find a reason why you would want the extra complexity < 1267482348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, bit-flipping does it. < 1267482361 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267482367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural language has it, as far as i can tell, solely for efficiency < 1267482373 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well, the language in design is very complex itself. < 1267482376 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys. < 1267482377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but computers have no need for this. < 1267482380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And say we have some piece of state s=0 normally, and have an operation meaning "if s=0, move left, if s=1 move right. flip s" < 1267482382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: calamari? < 1267482385 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, tell me about this language < 1267482393 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, heheh. Sorry? < 1267482409 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad to see #esoteric is still active. < 1267482410 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: will your language be used to program underwater exploration robots? < 1267482416 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes < 1267482427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused* < 1267482435 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Was asking if this is an alt nick for the one known as "calamari" :P < 1267482452 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It is as statically typed as possible, but it is very dynamic in nature, um...., it will be used for mathematics < 1267482472 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primarily for math < 1267482475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is flexible yet rigid, hard yet soft < 1267482479 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267482482 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cock? < 1267482488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Thou art... Who? < 1267482488 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-newtonian fluid like < 1267482505 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lament-cock like < 1267482505 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I used to hang around here a while ago. < 1267482512 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, nah. < 1267482516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Yes, just don't recall the nick. < 1267482518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: I bet there wasn't so much gay sex then. < 1267482527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've been around for quite some time. < 1267482528 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow >_> < 1267482528 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is there now? < 1267482538 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, o.o < 1267482542 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I don't know, maybe I'll tell you about it more later < 1267482543 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: yes >) < 1267482544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pray tell, what nick did you use? < 1267482564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Well, sometimes. < 1267482621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently dev_squid had not a nick in the past. < 1267482621 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just to clear up this issue that's been bothering me for a while...if you limit a language to only being able to deal with two bytes of storage (i.e. RAM), can it still be turing-complete? < 1267482632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267482638 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1267482642 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deal* with? yes < 1267482646 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only have*? no < 1267482649 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this is my new computer. < 1267482650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Because it can't. < 1267482654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a Turing-complete language must have unbounded memory. < 1267482661 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1267482671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Still not informing me about what nick you had previously. ;) < 1267482676 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaaait wait < 1267482680 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: You can manipulate two bytes at a time and be turing complete < 1267482686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can only have two bytes of storage, but can have I/O, it may still be TC. < 1267482698 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But could you DO anything in a 2-byte environment that you could do in a fully turing-complete environment? < 1267482709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not without fixed IO sources... < 1267482722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: there isnt a machine in existence that is turing complete. < 1267482732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even theoretically possible to build a turing complete machine. < 1267482738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say so < 1267482740 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: all your machine has is 2 bytes? < 1267482747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't say /any/ I/O would make it TC, but it's possible that I/O would be sufficient, with the right kind of I/O. < 1267482748 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bits of memory? < 1267482753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Hey, I've got spools of unbounded tape right here! < 1267482763 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ;) < 1267482765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would < 1267482789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I've already made the I-am-a-turing-machine-and-my-genitalia-comprise-the-tape joke. < 1267482795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: For any program you can write for your 2-byte computer, I can tell whether it will halt eventually, or not. Therefore it's not TC. < 1267482802 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the technical answer to your question, dev_squid, is no, your machine aint turing complete. but that doesnt matter. its a proper subclass of the turing machines, those that are Turing Complete-enough < 1267482804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the corollary wrapping-universe-so-I-am-actually-sexing-myself-up subjoke. < 1267482811 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: someone has built a 4-bit computer, that's way sexier. < 1267482814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps logs for dev_squid < 1267482815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OR CAN YOU < 1267482820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: o mai < 1267482826 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, alright, alright. I didn't put that question very clearly. < 1267482827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely never had someone using that nick here. < 1267482827 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur gettin me hawt < 1267482828 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, not me personally. My hordes of servants. < 1267482832 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I get it now. < 1267482833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not turing complete enough if it only has one bit of address < 1267482840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it cannot be made tc without serious graft surgery < 1267482847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: depends on how you handle memory. < 1267482858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how your mom handles memory < 1267482869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think she handles memory well < 1267482875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1267482886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i popped your mom's stack < 1267482897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate < 1267482933 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267482953 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering if it's viable (not practical!) to construct a language that only allows the programmer to operate on two bytes of RAM on bit at a time. < 1267482959 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make quite the challenge. < 1267482971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to enquire < 1267482997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I think that my language should allow multi-word symbols. < 1267482999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just cause. < 1267483004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: operate on, or address using? < 1267483009 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so smallfuck with 16-cell memory < 1267483027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for example) < 1267483029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the programmed can address an arbitrary number of memory cells, each of which is only 2 bytes? < 1267483042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmer** < 1267483048 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no. < 1267483052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Who hasn't been around in sufficient time to be surprised #esoteric's still active? < 1267483060 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1267483065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1267483074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hcf < 1267483075 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, ... < 1267483075 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: ok, clarify then? < 1267483077 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of brainfsck where you're inconvenienced by having two bytes of data space to work with. < 1267483079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's been *gone* for sufficient time. < 1267483083 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1267483087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: *Brainfuck. < 1267483091 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ok, right. me. < 1267483098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: i dont know jack shit about brainfuck. < 1267483105 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey was gone forever < 1267483106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Ah, right. < 1267483110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me, slightly less than that < 1267483120 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't really know the rules on profanity, so I just went with brainfsck. < 1267483132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: When did you wander back? Must have been shortly before me, I reckon. < 1267483142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell, you think we give a shit about profanity? Only an utter cunt would do that! < 1267483142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pard'ner.) < 1267483146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just doing my job to lower signal/noise.) < 1267483149 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh. < 1267483150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Profanity? Yes please. < 1267483153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: He's been here intermittently forever. < 1267483160 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you watch your mouth! < 1267483162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just shocked every single day we still exist. < 1267483164 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i'm not sure. there was a dark ages kind of period in the history of #esoteric < 1267483166 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps alise cross the mouth < 1267483169 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids these days < 1267483172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, all of it < 1267483191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was pretty cool before you joined < 1267483192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i made the sparkline, ma'am. activity has been /steadily rising/ since the start, and has never gone significantly down < 1267483202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: lawl < 1267483213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dark ages i mean noise-to-signal, not volume < 1267483242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember something about razor-x and anime. < 1267483246 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots and lots of anime discussions. < 1267483260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember seeing you whine about that when feeding everything to that kicker bot thing :D < 1267483279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also signal/noise presumably, so that it gets lower as quality is shittier < 1267483310 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1267483351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not noise/signal < 1267483369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament! :o < 1267483375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey changod < 1267483382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's andreou < 1267483384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows the changoddery < 1267483392 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1267483423 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not god :( < 1267483442 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dont you have ... < 1267483446 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE POWER? < 1267483453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: my language seems to unintentionally have autovivification, yet it is totally "pure" i.e. no hacky stuff. do you approve? < 1267483459 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267483468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i need to go shopping < 1267483471 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1267483478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have godlike powers, sure < 1267483478 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my idea: a language which can only operate on one bit at a time of one of two bytes in memory...your'd have your standard bitwise operators like AND, OR, XOR, and NOT, except these took bits as operands, not bytes like an 8-bit processor. I guess you could say it (sort of) simulates machine language of a 1-bit processor...sort of. < 1267483489 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you'd < 1267483502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: this language would be... limited. < 1267483508 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, very. < 1267483515 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1267483525 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a von neumann machine? < 1267483532 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... < 1267483533 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are programs limited to being 2 characters long? < 1267483548 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, no. < 1267483559 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1267483573 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 4-bit computer people have built is a von-neumann machine < 1267483609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: I'm sure there are some (small) problems such a computer could solve < 1267483622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operative word there being, uh, small. < 1267483636 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could easily add 1 and 2 < 1267483676 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, how many bits in a bit? < 1267483679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing making that actually do anything at all is not being Von Neumann.. < 1267483698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: don't suppose you're interested in the details? < 1267483701 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll come back later when I've formulated a better explanation. I'm confusing myself even. < 1267483713 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, busy having a flamewar atm < 1267483719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, about what? < 1267483725 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267483760 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if hasattr(xyz, 'xyz'): self.xyz = xyz.xyz < 1267483781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what's been causing me so much pain. (The names were changed to protect the "innocent".) < 1267483801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1267483834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what happens when you mix subclass-based inheritance with delegation at your whim. < 1267483840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD. < 1267483848 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywho < 1267483854 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help alise < 1267483877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: wut < 1267483885 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise what about haskell' < 1267483894 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could always make it where you have [8 bits][1-bit swap space][8 bits]. Basically, you can toggle which 8-bit cell you're operating on, while also being able to pass data between the two via the 1-bit swap cell. It wouldn't be a realistic model by any means, but it'd be interesting. < 1267483900 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically nothing at all but you have so many extensions you can turn it into anything < 1267483923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: What about it? < 1267483938 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that' s my idea < 1267483959 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I love minimalistic or limiting esolangs because when you manage to write a working program in them, you feel much more accomplished...IMHO. < 1267483969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: well that's the reality of haskell today :P < 1267484029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I really have to have anonymous nodes with named arcs, I think: because I really can't have nodes all being unique. < 1267484038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :George --- name --- something, Robert --- name --- something. < 1267484041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Krr, name is duplicate. < 1267484052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there a name for a graph where you can have duplicate nodes? < 1267484078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/ ? < 1267484126 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267484136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their "Haskell 2010" sounds like hell < 1267484151 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267484171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell how? < 1267484178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 2010 is just a standardisation of, well, GHC. < 1267484190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for integer exponents it is trivial to implement. Somewhat more involved for non-integers. < 1267484208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if GHC is to Haskell as gcc is to C, ... < 1267484250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, though? :P < 1267484253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has three different power functions, dependent on whether the underlying type allows just multiplication, allows division, or allows general powers < 1267484261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait what's the third < 1267484264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know ^ and ** < 1267484267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1267484310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot implement the last one (**) cleanly for rationals < 1267484324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Haskell 2010 is not a standardisation of GHC. < 1267484330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't even know of ^^ < 1267484333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a standardisation of a handful of GHC extensions. < 1267484339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: shaddap < 1267484339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267484365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's defined for rationals, but it won't help you take cube roots alas < 1267484376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((^^)) < 1267484388 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desu < 1267484400 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was waiting for that < 1267484428 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is there some way to get Hugs to tell me what types implement a particular type class? < 1267484436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Step one, don't use Hugs. < 1267484442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267484453 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to make me wait for all my crap to COMPILE, aren't you. < 1267484458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ghci < 1267484459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the idea of a cell containing 5/3 bits is hard to think about logically. 3 of them should give 32 possibilities, but how do you achieve this consistently? maybe it's something quantum :D < 1267484465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiles on the spot, interactive like hugs. < 1267484469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runghc foo.hs < 1267484474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs the program like a script interpreter. < 1267484498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs doesn't even have the latest major version of the standard library, which changed quite a bit. < 1267484502 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, I'll give it a shot. < 1267484503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it even have 3? < 1267484524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs is like... Dead. < 1267484538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'll give it a shot if it can tell me what types implement Integral. < 1267484548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: even ghc cannot do it without you having loaded the modules defining the type instances, i think. < 1267484588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just stick to Visual Basic. < 1267484589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the web documentation frequently lists types defining a particular class < 1267484602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe that's module-dependent too < 1267484603 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I couldn't find it in the docs, that's why I was curious. < 1267484617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, besides the various integery types, implement Integral? < 1267484624 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnone < 1267484626 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1267484627 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnone < 1267484627 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnone < 1267484633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :info Integral < 1267484633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Real a, Enum a) => Integral a where < 1267484634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quot :: a -> a -> a < 1267484634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rem :: a -> a -> a < 1267484634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : div :: a -> a -> a < 1267484635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mod :: a -> a -> a < 1267484635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quotRem :: a -> a -> (a, a) < 1267484635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : divMod :: a -> a -> (a, a) < 1267484636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : toInteger :: a -> Integer < 1267484636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Defined in GHC.Real < 1267484636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Integral Integer -- Defined in GHC.Real < 1267484637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Integral Int -- Defined in GHC.Real < 1267484639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry for the flood.) < 1267484642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Import more modules, get more Integrals. < 1267484651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thank you. < 1267484654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in addition to the standard Int and Integer, the Int* and Word* types from Data.Int and Data.Word < 1267484659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can't just say "import *" then look. < 1267484670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ones i know of < 1267484760 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267484869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Prelude.html has a sizable list a way down < 1267484887 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thanks. < 1267484903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Prelude.html#7 < 1267484919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the closest anchor i could find < 1267484925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell.org is not responding for me, lovely < 1267484946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just reeeeeally slow < 1267484948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? i just brought it up < 1267485090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess most of those are for the ffi, lots of C types < 1267485146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course those are at most the instances that come with ghc. other packages can define their own. < 1267485154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally made a channel for my system/language/thingy. #usys < 1267485627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you have 6 * 5/3 bits in a row. that is 10 bits. now you should be able to read off 5 bits starting from _any_ of the 4 first 5/3 blocks. < 1267485651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267485694 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-97-208.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267485728 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267485731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you read off 5 bits from overlapping areas, you should be able to deduce all other 5 bit offsets inside that same area < 1267485749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from two overlapping areas < 1267485788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably enough to get a logical inconsistency < 1267485821 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1267485887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm more generally you should be able to take any three 5/3 bits and combine them into a 5 bit value < 1267485981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is some mad sort of logic where this kind of thing is allowed. i've vaguely heard that toposes replace boolean truth values with something else... < 1267486027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(varying by topos) < 1267486160 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267486247 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267486552 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267486618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heeeeeyo < 1267486663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoooyo < 1267486711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ma < 1267487201 0 :angstrom!~anon@unaffiliated/angstrom JOIN :#esoteric < 1267487469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell data Nat nat = Succ nat deriving Show; main = print . Succ . Succ . Succ $ "Test" < 1267487479 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Succ (Succ (Succ "Test")) < 1267487483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1267487495 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAI NAO < 1267487522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your Show instance for Nat back when was just the usual derived one < 1267487596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm right < 1267487607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why hah? < 1267487621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or almost. it left out the parentheses around "Test". < 1267487634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because you didn't notice it? < 1267487646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was being careful :)