< 1267488606 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267488874 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby, "test".succ.succ.succ (or whatever the term is in ruby; next? whatever) would be tesw < 1267489007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell instance Enum String where succ s = init s ++ [succ (last s)]; main = print . succ . succ . succ $ "test" < 1267489019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1267489032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell instance Enum String where {succ s = init s ++ [succ (last s)]}; main = print . succ . succ . succ $ "test" < 1267489071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE TypeSynonymInstances #-}instance Enum String where {succ s = init s ++ [succ (last s)]}; main = print . succ . succ . succ $ "test" < 1267489124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* i guess there is no way to turn off warnings about undefined methods without defining them all :( < 1267489170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell {-# LANGUAGE TypeSynonymInstances #-}instance Enum String where {succ s = init s ++ [succ (last s)]; fromEnum = undefined; toEnum = undefined}; main = print . succ . succ . succ $ "test" < 1267489173 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tesw" < 1267489421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ ['a','b',succ maxBound] < 1267489424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need wrapping son < 1267489455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd think that should give a carry, actually < 1267489500 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does succ a_list supposed to mean? < 1267489519 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammar fail < 1267489550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i think version strings is one of the intended cases < 1267489560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use cases < 1267489595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby may do something more complicated than just looking at the last character for all i know < 1267489620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, what is "test9".succ ? < 1267489655 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tryruby.com has a ruby interpreter < 1267489662 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some similar URL < 1267489675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's why's < 1267489678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why killed himself < 1267489687 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, WHAT? < 1267489696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: person-behind why killed the-persona why. < 1267489702 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok < 1267489703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deleted all online accounts, code and websites) < 1267489716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267489726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i don't find it any less sad, it's not like person-behind-why will be exactly like why, a lot of it will be an act of sorts - or at least a costume < 1267489732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll never contact them anyway < 1267489734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):001:0> "test9".succ < 1267489734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> "tesu0" < 1267489737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tesu tesu tesu < 1267489760 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it means the person isn't dead. < 1267489779 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1267489788 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it is upsetting that we'll never speak to Why again, probably [and even that isn't definite, unlike RL death] < 1267489791 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so useless being ill because even though i'm not at school I can't work on my own stuff < 1267489803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: just lie in bed and chill < 1267489810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: he's not coming back < 1267489811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, severely ill, or known-to-be-temporarily-ill? < 1267489823 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do we know this? < 1267489824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, do you care about some random person dying that you don't know? don't lie, you don't < 1267489830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sad event is that persona why is gone < 1267489839 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit ill < 1267489842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well, the probability is almost 0 < 1267489854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he completely wiped out everything, he had been a bit pessimistic about programming on his twitter just before < 1267489861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was an /utter/ wipeout of EVERYTHING < 1267489864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: famous last words < 1267489871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1267489893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little bit of cancer. < 1267489894 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what's that "a bit pessimistic" < 1267489895 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267489899 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would love to read what it was < 1267489943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: wasn't much interesting "blah blah programming is ephemeral the only things that truly survive are games; people will do anything to keep games running; if you want your stuff to last make it a game" which seems... false, but whatever < 1267489963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means esolangs will outlive all other languages < 1267489964 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later < 1267489966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267489992 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise huh. well i guess it's lost forever/ < 1267489992 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1267490012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1267490021 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are games, good games, that don't survive < 1267490054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it. but there is a mirror of most stuff < 1267490055 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's mostly online games < 1267490066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/whymirror is code, can't remember where the writing stuff is < 1267490122 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE LOOKS LIKE JACK BLACK < 1267490140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does < 1267490237 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wugh < 1267490244 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zed shaws opinions can fuck off < 1267490291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he's a dick < 1267490298 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267490554 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-166-170-253.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267490562 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267490921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: join #usys :| < 1267490943 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: . < 1267491059 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :devmarlen < 1267491083 0 :devmarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267491083 0 :devmarlen!~jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539/bot/marlen JOIN :#esoteric < 1267491121 0 :devmarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267491121 0 :devmarlen!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267491159 0 :devmarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :multimarlen < 1267491171 0 :multimarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267491171 0 :multimarlen!~jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539/bot/marlen JOIN :#esoteric < 1267491201 0 :multimarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267491202 0 :multimarlen!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267491206 0 :multimarlen!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp < 1267491422 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080319.html < 1267491509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267491550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080322.html < 1267491555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he stole my alternative universe syntax :( < 1267491556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(almost) < 1267491606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight men are so unreliable < 1267491613 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1267491686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1267491882 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OriginalSyntax < 1267491933 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OriginalSyntax: I can't decide if that nick is clever and hilarious or just stupid. < 1267491946 0 :OriginalSyntax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in ##proggit is OriginalSyn < 1267491949 0 :OriginalSyntax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i figured < 1267491951 0 :OriginalSyntax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets up the ante < 1267491954 0 :OriginalSyntax!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1267491970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now OriginalSyn is clever and hilarious. < 1267491978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's meaningful in both senses. < 1267491992 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If not a particularly useful meaning) < 1267492000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows it meaningful in both senses? < 1267492001 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1267492004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find all this Syn a little taxing < 1267492057 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: In a TCP session, there will be a first (and so "original") SYN. < 1267492087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see! < 1267492120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go now. I may or may not be on tomorrow; if not, probably tomorrow; if not, probably the next day... otherwise on the weekend, maybe, or even later depending. < 1267492122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably not never. < 1267492123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1267492125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: alise < 1267492589 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267493656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot's o'er here. < 1267493711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, yes? < 1267493722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("Isn't 'e?"); < 1267493727 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 'e? < 1267493773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is just a bot anyway :P < 1267493988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/03/forgotten-classics-white-dog-the-racist-dog < 1267493991 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no words < 1267494029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :そう。 < 1267494048 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esu < 1267494070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: もっとです？ < 1267494169 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267494555 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think APL should be considered an esoteric language. At first, that's what I thought it was. < 1267494570 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1267494571 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What paradigm does APL use anyway? < 1267494576 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array programming < 1267494579 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector programming < 1267494581 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. < 1267494584 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Lisp? < 1267494590 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it in lisp < 1267494617 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got around to learning Lisp, but it looks hella fun. < 1267494642 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structurally, I think the language is genious. < 1267494648 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should learn it < 1267494692 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should! < 1267494696 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my next project. :) < 1267494702 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good D < 1267494732 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it practical for software development? < 1267494842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest Haskell. < 1267494843 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its tits < 1267494858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will then realise that Haskell is fairly mundane. :P < 1267494861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1267494863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp. < 1267494868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lisp* is fairly mundane. < 1267494868 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is tits < 1267494874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farking thinkos. < 1267495140 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lisp is genius < 1267495157 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is mundane comparatively < 1267495172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a very different sort of genius < 1267495181 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Haskell isn't genius at all < 1267495187 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It plays off of the work of previous languages < 1267495193 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely Miranda and SML < 1267495207 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like saying that I'm a genius if I write E=mc^2 < 1267495222 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML gets my genius points < 1267495245 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is difficult enough that most people who learn it think it's god < 1267495257 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what MissPiggy said < 1267495618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Originality and genius are not necessarily connected < 1267495702 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tits, or just tits? < 1267495703 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case they're the same < 1267495726 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I appreciate your insight coppro :) < 1267495747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: in Lisp's case, I completely agree; it was both genius and original < 1267495750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is obviously standing on the shoulders of giants < 1267495755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267495778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean both genius and unreadable < 1267495791 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's very readable < 1267495803 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it's more acquired though < 1267495813 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like python where lol N E 1 CAN REED < 1267495819 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO LEARNING REQUIRED < 1267495826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: if you're repeatedly fucked in the eye socket for years, eventually you learn to tolerate it < 1267495847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (.)(.) (++) "What" (' ':) "tits?" < 1267495849 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What tits?" < 1267495849 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp pisses me off more than chardonnay < 1267495854 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chardonnay fucking pisses me off < 1267495862 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: No, honestly, if it's properly indented, it's not bad < 1267495868 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I mean lisps in general, NOT common lisp < 1267495880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the language implementer it's great, the end user just hands you an AST :P < 1267495883 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common lisp is a mess < 1267495936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i don't believe you. I looked at Scheme code. I can certainly see that it gets better with practice, but so does everything else, and Lisp after X time spent on practice will still be less pleasant than non-Lisp after X time < 1267495955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans work in a certain way which is very much the opposite of what Lisp tries to do. < 1267495969 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if non-lisp is, in particular, Brainfuck? < 1267495979 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: be practical jeez < 1267495983 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267496031 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I know what you're saying. I guess I should put it this way: lisp syntax is perfectly suitable for the style of programming it promotes, and trying to replicate this style in other languages would be impossible without sexps < 1267496079 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: duh, obviously. To me this just says the whole style is crap. < 1267496104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alan perlis, etc. < 1267496112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Haskell syntax. It actively rewards those who learn it. < 1267496120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: with tits. < 1267496126 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamentits < 1267496132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Heheh. < 1267496156 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I think it needs some work. But the style is remarkable. The point is that you can make your own syntax constructs at any time. Programs writing programs writing programs, data is code, etc etc < 1267496166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I apologize if my obsession with tits offends you. < 1267496175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Plof does it better. < 1267496178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267496184 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: yeah, it sounds great especially when you just learn about it :D < 1267496190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I knew you were going to say that :P < 1267496195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT MIND BLOWN < 1267496198 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of thing < 1267496199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is true, though. < 1267496205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course! < 1267496230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, Plof doesn't have the backing of tons of crazy compilation research to make it efficient. < 1267496232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: although forth blew my mind more than lisp, even though i learned lisp first < 1267496245 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Weird < 1267496271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: The entire compiler setup *is* mind-blowing, yeah. < 1267496284 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth compilers are really neat, tru dat < 1267496287 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: prolly because lisp is still a language < 1267496289 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament forth blew my mind too "How can ANYONE program in this" < 1267496293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when you realise how bloody *simple* it is to do, even in assembly. < 1267496303 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is an environment or something < 1267496313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: Same way they do in any other language: abstraction. < 1267496316 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstraction-creating environment < 1267496327 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bare metal, drunk with power, etc < 1267496331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tits < 1267496339 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obligatory http://i.imgur.com/k9YEP.jpg < 1267496344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth makes abstraction cheap. < 1267496360 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1267496362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're willing to make the abstraction, of course. < 1267496363 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267496364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picture says all really < 1267496400 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267496416 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN makes abstraction cheap L O L < 1267496441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wish I could have made Plof taste a bit more like Forth in some ways. < 1267496445 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too much though. < 1267496453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of a "Forth with syntax" would be nice :P < 1267496465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except not) < 1267496476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, you did get part of the way there already. < 1267496496 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i don't know anything about plawf plz link me < 1267496501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, there is rather a lot of work going into the PUL, compared with Forth. < 1267496504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plof.codu.org/ < 1267496507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: http://plof.codu.org < 1267496596 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this LaTeX for the standard needs some work < 1267496597 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^______________^ < 1267496624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does, it was nastily converted from OpenOffice at some point :P < 1267496656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it changes too often for me to focus on the spec rather than the actual design. < 1267496659 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is a latexpert < 1267496668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been too lazy to do it right. < 1267496675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 \latex
< 1267496694 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazingly, the LaTeX still looks somewhat good < 1267496725 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: actually it looks pretty bad but whatever :( < 1267496756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: it's bad for LaTeX < 1267496766 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :period, end of story < 1267496776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is still better than everything else. :P < 1267496785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LaTeX starts on top of the heap < 1267496800 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1267496808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I converted it to LaTeX to have room to expand upwards in quality, I just haven't really done that yet :P < 1267496810 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because you're better than the entire retarded population, doesn't mean you're good < 1267496811 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267496842 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, please don't take my comments about the latex negatively. I realize it can get better. I am just saying it's mediocre at the moment < 1267496844 0 :supperrfreek!~adamgrava@student-wifi.norwich.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267496849 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll be so nice and make the latex beautiful < 1267496867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I realize it is, I just don't care that much because my focus isn't the code of the spec, it's the language itself :P < 1267496887 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I care but that's just because I'm weird and like typography < 1267496974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I would appreciate comments on Plof the language more than comments on Plof's specification :P < 1267496976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of us do -- note that we learn LaTeX. < 1267496982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267497006 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe I'll go through the spec thoroughly. < 1267497019 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been known to be an expert in language design and implementation. < 1267497024 0 :supperrfreek!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267497214 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is an expert at giving up because no one else cares.
< 1267497221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a supper freak, supper freak, he's supper freaky. < 1267497245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Hoot. < 1267497456 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20090313.html < 1267497602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Station V3 run on Unix V3? < 1267497704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Unix V3 is obsolete junk made by incompetents that tends to cause the generator to fail and the security system to grab everyone and throw them out, probably < 1267498251 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1267498579 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today's guest strip is from my left hand" < 1267499957 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267501109 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267501447 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still can't get used to Neap and Morty talking.
< 1267501578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Neap and Morty being Sgeo_'s pet gerbils) < 1267501589 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267502132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267502151 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see Floyd's body again
< 1267502301 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267502309 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1267503284 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Floyd being Sgeo_'s on-again-off-again gay lover) < 1267503317 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floyd being the robot in http://www.stationv3.com/d/20091202.html < 1267503361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees no contradiction in those two statements
< 1267503386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sgeo_ was just further clarifying. < 1267503401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1267504651 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Floyd died? < 1267504664 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1267504669 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just bodyless < 1267504686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew. I was hoping this would actually make sense. < 1267504690 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the universe did end. < 1267504699 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I kinda remember that, slightly. < 1267504707 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the most recent strip recently. < 1267504718 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I suddenly want to reread El Goonish Shive. < 1267504724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now in February of this year
< 1267504725 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because rereading the whole thing is the best way to catch up. < 1267504741 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that would take a really long time, and I don't have much time. < 1267504744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a very busy man! < 1267504748 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will soon have read the entire archive, not counting the bonus strips, of Station V3
< 1267504749 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so I've declared myself. < 1267504766 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of studying, working on an important project, writing a rebuttal < 1267504769 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anything else < 1267504785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: not to mention that you will realize how bad the art was originally and try to stab your eyes out < 1267504801 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, Sgeo_, this is why we take only one class per semester. < 1267504812 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives us time to do the important things. < 1267504823 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I already want to stab my eyes out just thinking about it. < 1267504825 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Studying's the only thing in the list that has to do with college < 1267504835 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whew. < 1267504840 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your important project? < 1267504861 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "classified" < 1267504865 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1267504873 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means I've been talking about it here incessantly < 1267504906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267504910 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's Normish-related, abandon it and join #sxmc so you can help me with my... also classified project. < 1267505350 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Sgeo_, as you were saying... < 1267505393 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, look up mentions that I may have made about C# < 1267507434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267509628 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267509653 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267510610 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267510630 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267510718 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267510825 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. < 1267510827 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here? < 1267510845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never. < 1267510871 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well I came up with an idea for an ugly esolang called Nibble. < 1267510887 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are my notes: http://pastie.org/849378 < 1267510889 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1267510929 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267511005 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267511051 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few things I forgot to mention in there so it's okay if it makes no sense whatsoever. < 1267511229 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267511402 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatcha think? < 1267512019 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1267512164 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267512166 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267512410 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1267512472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is dead. Please cast a resurrection spell/reboot the server/pray to the gods/start the daemon/plug the channel in/start the devil. < 1267512599 0 :angstrom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267512925 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1267513064 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1267513256 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267513388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1267514947 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. < 1267514961 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is CoreWar still around? < 1267514967 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. popular? < 1267516341 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267516799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1267516800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1267520061 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question. < 1267520433 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267521209 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Chile earthquake actually made a measurable change to the Earth's rotation < 1267521224 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :days are now 1.26 µs shorter than they were before < 1267521282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that tsunami quake few years ago shortened them by 6.8 µs. (I happened to be reading the same bit of news at the same time.) < 1267521364 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of these just to reduce angular momentum by itself? < 1267521382 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter days implies a faster angular momentum < 1267521393 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it could also happen due to a change in rotation speed around the sun < 1267521473 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean reduce moment of inertia < 1267521484 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently it sped up because the Earth became denser towards the centre and less dense towards the crust as a result < 1267521545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The news article I happened to be reading does note something vague about there being regular larger changes in day-length "due to other causes, such as atmospheric mass moving around on Earth". < 1267521575 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tidal forces apparently have the largest day-to-day effect < 1267521592 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it apparently takes 100 days of the Moon going round in circles to produce a similarly-sized change to the earthquake < 1267521622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's clearly bad design. A responsible Intelligent Designer would've made things much more orderly. < 1267521799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word-pair "combat-wombat" keeps going round my head. < 1267522208 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohai, gaiz. < 1267522234 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you like my idea for a universal brainfuck entension? (http://pastie.org/849477) < 1267522350 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mimics ideas from pbrain, brainstack, fukyorbrane and some others, but I came up with the data indirection and thought it was pretty neat. < 1267522357 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's centralized. < 1267522516 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1267522528 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1267522558 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::;@ work as in fukyourbrane? < 1267522570 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, looks like @ terminates a procedure if it's in one, or a thread if it isn't < 1267522597 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, -126 to 127 is a weird range, you probably meant -128 to 127 < 1267522666 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1267522927 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1267522933 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure did. Meh. < 1267523003 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to implement C-style functions, especially if it had stack support. :) < 1267523282 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do you like it? < 1267523472 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems reasonable; we get a lot of BF variants of that sort < 1267523480 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can create a compiler from that to regular BF, it would be even more interesting < 1267523561 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed it up. (http://pastie.org/849497) < 1267523565 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure would. < 1267523695 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yerp. I've just never seen one that implemented basic features like this without going overboard. I believe it's still minimal, yet powerful. < 1267523832 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen Modular SNUSP? < 1267523882 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/SNUSP < 1267523887 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting to look at for ideas < 1267523893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just compile LLVM bitcode to BF; at that point you're golden < 1267524071 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1267524139 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what? I've yet to see a BF derivative implement C-compliant functions with stack support. < 1267524143 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Crainfuck. < 1267524191 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that < 1267524206 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just host brainfuck inside C < 1267524222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think LLVM -> BF would be the crowning moment in esoteric glory. < 1267524224 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can use whichever is most appropriate for the task < 1267524436 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267525666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus fucking christ < 1267525674 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur < 1267525675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wipeout fusion's tethys league is impossible < 1267525687 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you feeling wiped out by it? < 1267525709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im feeling pissed is what im feeling < 1267525718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like the computer is cheating < 1267525813 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have turned me into jesus < 1267526421 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what XD < 1267526513 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267526641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1267528117 0 :alise!~alise@95.145.65.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267528236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. I'm all uncomfortable. < 1267528272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: "If it's Normish-related, abandon it" -- uorygl < 1267528284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure am glad I didn't rely on it for anything serious :^) < 1267528286 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1267528305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:13:44 days are now 1.26 µs shorter than they were before < 1267528305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:14:42 And that tsunami quake few years ago shortened them by 6.8 µs. (I happened to be reading the same bit of news at the same time.) < 1267528305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1267528307 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I operate under the assumption that Normish is likely to go offline at any moment < 1267528318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:40:40 What's your important project? < 1267528318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:41:01 It's "classified" < 1267528318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:41:05 Oh. < 1267528319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:41:13 Which means I've been talking about it here incessantly < 1267528319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:41:46 lol < 1267528319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:41:50 If it's Normish-related, abandon it and join #sxmc so you can help me with my... also classified project. < 1267528322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not quite Normish-is-over. < 1267528328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's obviously I-have-a-shiny-new-project-now-Normish-sux. < 1267528349 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normish, in the end, effectively became a server for helping with nomic things < 1267528356 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hosts loggic and blognomicbot, for instance < 1267528374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over ten years the difference in earth's rotation < 1267528377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have lost 0.08ms < 1267528404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blognomicbot? < 1267528418 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a bot that hangs out in BlogNomic's IRC channel < 1267528423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing? < 1267528438 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly for doing ChanServ duties when ChanServ goes insane, but it also counts votes, and copies the topic and user list to the blognomic server < 1267528476 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, prevents the channel being dropped due to lack of active ops) < 1267528479 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\)// < 1267528507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counts votes on what? like !voteon Excellence mogriband? < 1267528530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as you know the entirety of my current situation - do you think it's irresponsible to reregister for Agora? As in, for who-knows-what-will-happen reasons. < 1267528545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it quite likely that the unit is not over yet. < 1267528570 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: once a week should probably be enough, although it's not quick enough to catch without-objection < 1267528585 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, given that contracts were repealed, you can normally rely on someone else to object for you < 1267528599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I just meant as in neglecting any obligations or whatever < 1267528612 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid taking on obligations that you can't fulfil easily enough < 1267528629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly want to play if I'm still fighting the unit, so I'd probably inactivate if it starts again. < 1267528632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the point. < 1267528677 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty quiet atm < 1267528696 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we repealed most of the interesting rules, presumably this would be a good time to create more < 1267528711 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's been an intriguing discussion about whether the IBA still exists, given that contracts have been repealed < 1267528724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if there's nothing interesting to do... < 1267528749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's RtRW? < 1267528786 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the ruleset week, first week of february < 1267528819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267528825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees a genius idea on reddit
< 1267528834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a government has national debt, they should just bail themselves out < 1267528844 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1267528851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267528895 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and charge interest! < 1267529109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has agora been without contracts before? < 1267529114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they've been around for almost all time... < 1267529120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, after their first introduction) < 1267529194 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea; I wonder if they were continuously there between the whole SLC mess (years ago) and modern contracts? < 1267529388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLC mess? Haven't heard of that one. < 1267529398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Regardless, I doubt it's been without them for more than weeks before. < 1267529404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've been the backbone of Agora for how long? < 1267529420 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the power system has been the backbone ever since it was invented < 1267529430 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contracts have just been a fun thing to mess around with < 1267529433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that's just a safeguard. < 1267529441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual non-nomic gameplay, I mean. < 1267529446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most people like that stuff.) < 1267529887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Logicnomic! < 1267529894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win if you prove a contradiction. < 1267529914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Formallogicnomic, I should say. < 1267529928 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving the entire ruleset inconsistent? < 1267529945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly (but there's a metaruleset that says that the game restarts in a certain way after) < 1267529955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably with the contradiction eliminated somehow < 1267530082 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just have it end after someone wins < 1267530086 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nomics have actually ended like that < 1267530091 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can start a new one < 1267530103 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me wonders at lea being used for addition < 1267530106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone would be trying to subtly introduce contradictions all the time < 1267530110 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense on some level, but not on another level < 1267530112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i imagine the turnover would be quite high < 1267530498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that x86's add (and so many other ops) have the target register fixed to be one of the operands, the popularity of some lea-trickery is not very surprising. < 1267530537 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a case of, why have two addition instructions which use utterly different syntax? < 1267530610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it only makes sense if you think about it on the implementation level. (Where you have this pile of logic ready for all kinds of addressing modes, and it's easy to make an instruction that just reads the computed address into a register.) < 1267530822 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf, incidentally, uses lea for pointer computations and add for integer computations < 1267530832 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers and integers are stored utterly different ways, so it makes sense to have two commands < 1267530897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "hardware" there is a bit on the strange side, though. < 1267531089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86-64 you "need" lea to turn IP-relative offsets into real pointers (if you need to pass it to somewhere, for example), since you can't add the RIP register normally -- it's not general-purpose enough -- but you can LEA reg, [rel offset]. < 1267531388 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1267531391 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100301/lets-take-this-offline.html < 1267531424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joel Spolsky? My bullshit filter just turned up to maximum while the page is loading. < 1267531476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :503 Service Temporarily Unavailable < 1267531506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loaded now. < 1267531518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blogging is holding you back? Excellent! Less shit for me to ignore. < 1267531565 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've never seen a picture of Joel Spolsky before < 1267531569 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise he looked so smug < 1267531572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blog blog you startup masturbate you rock blog huh??? you're WRONGGG nobody cares (oh the irony) BLOG PROPER SHITTERS not worth it lol too much work it's the OVERRRRRRRRRRRR < 1267531581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ summary < 1267531602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing worse than a Joel Spolsky is a Joel Spolsky & Jeff Atwood. < 1267531609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is also the only thing worse than a Jeff Atwood.) < 1267531618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, maybe Spolsky is /marginally/ better than Atwood. < 1267531619 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of spolsky & attwood is the one that's at least half-competent? < 1267531626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spolsky. Atwood is the codinghorror dude. < 1267531681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut, apparently north and south korea are still technically at war and have been since 1950 < 1267531736 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he looks retarded < 1267531756 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean that in a nasty way just that normal people don't smile in that way < 1267531801 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: they still have weapons pointed at each other < 1267531805 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was amusing that he blogged about quitting blogging, and that he gave some tips on how to write a good blog, one of which was: Give tips on how to do X rather than just announcing some event/product/whatever < 1267531811 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, neither dares fire, because then the other would fire and they'd both be wiped out < 1267531814 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow MissPiggy u r mean < 1267531833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yeah but i mean they never actually got around to ending the korean war after stopping all those killing dealies :P < 1267531853 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still at war, it's just a cold war now < 1267531866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the same war as the Korean War, though? < 1267531874 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, the south koreans have been dropping informative pamphlets over north korea < 1267531892 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the north koreans mostly don't pick them up because the propaganda machine has convinced many of them their hands will drop off if they try < 1267531925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267531931 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joel Spolsky is the Nickelback of computing. < 1267531939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kim Jong-il is hilarious < 1267531955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I didn't consider it the best comedy ever created I'd just be depressed) < 1267531962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am /convinced/ they are filming all this < 1267531968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For surveillance? No, for syndication! < 1267531984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit related but not the same extended-war list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_extended_by_diplomatic_irregularity < 1267532000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :431 BC 404 BC 1994 < 1267532002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now /that/ is impressive < 1267532013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1994? This. Is. SPARTA! < 1267532062 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that first one is ridiculous < 1267532066 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly not even true < 1267532088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up! I want to believe it! < 1267532110 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :335 years for the Dutch Republic vs. the Isles of Scilly is still impressive, though < 1267532114 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably that one's verifiable < 1267532132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one is almost equally ridiculous and even has a citation -- did not check what sort of. < 1267532145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Saudi Aramco World, (bottom of page) < 1267532148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198503/delenda.est.carthago.htm < 1267532150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some magazine < 1267532156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Carthage and Rome finally signed a peace treaty - in February 1985 - Ugo Vetere, the mayor of Rome, seemed deeply moved by the still existing traces of the catastrophe at Carthage - which he described as "blackened by fire." The catastrophe, he said, "... should be regarded, not just with curiosity, or with a love for archeology, but... with the eyes of those who wish for and... work for peace today." < 1267532175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, it is my opinion that Carthage must be destroyed. < 1267532187 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, allegedly one of the peace treaties for the World War was typed backwards < 1267532192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1267532193 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to an accident with putting in carbon paper in the dark < 1267532196 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody noticed at the time < 1267532203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they ... read it? < 1267532207 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ended up being typed on the back of the sheet of paper < 1267532212 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not sure I believe it myself < 1267532214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267532225 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urban legend goes that it was dark at the time, and so nobody saw it until later < 1267532245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the time World War II was declared over, there was no single German state that all occupying powers accepted as being the sole representative of the former Reich. Therefore the war technically did not finish until the country was reunified." < 1267532291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andorra vs German Empire World War I 1914 1918 1958[6] Andorra was not invited to the Treaty of Versailles. < 1267532294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, Andorra < 1267532306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Montenegro declared war in support of Russia but this was merely a gesture as Montenegro lacked a navy or any other means to engage Japan." < 1267532308 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1267532362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Nevertheless, reportedly in 1966 a Soviet official waited upon the Mayor of Berwick, Councillor Robert Knox, and a peace treaty was formally signed. Knox is reputed to have said "Please tell the Russian people that they can sleep peacefully in their beds."]] < 1267532380 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's also apparently a rumour; at least, snopes.com tried to find evidence of that but couldn't < 1267532383 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fun story though < 1267532385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[To complicate the issue, some have noted that Knox did not have any authority with regard to foreign relations, and thus may have exceeded his powers as mayor in concluding a peace treaty.]] < 1267532386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1267532396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: the whole signing, or the saying? < 1267532414 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both, IIRC < 1267532505 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267532512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1267532787 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find any references to that backwards-treaty thing on Wikipedia or Snopes, not even as debunked rumours < 1267532792 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have no idea where I heard it from < 1267532918 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i have an idea for an esolang < 1267532952 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is: basically everything you type is either pushed onto a stack or applied to a stack, so 1 1 + would push 1 then 1 then apply + and everything follows these rules < 1267532956 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? < 1267533015 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: concatenative langs! < 1267533020 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1267533028 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload is a bit like that < 1267533040 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my attempt to reduce concatenativeness to a tarpit < 1267533051 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some "real" languages which work like that too < 1267533065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: Joy, Factor, ("almost" Forth) Cat, Underload, ... < 1267533084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations: you're intelligent enough to independently invent concatenative languages. < 1267533100 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1267533138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung_University I'm surprised this even _exists_ < 1267533161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wtf do they teach in history? Or philosophy? Government? Economics? Law? :P < 1267533172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much of their sciences just happen to /conveniently/ tie in with Juche... < 1267533181 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I was kidding < 1267533187 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much the worst idea ever < 1267533196 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1267533199 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1267533207 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even do control flow like that < 1267533210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strong intellectual bent in this one I see < 1267533217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you have quotations < 1267533224 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1267533225 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fagtor does < 1267533230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fagtor". < 1267533233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, just go away now. < 1267533235 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor* < 1267533242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, that was clearly intentional < 1267533243 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think alise invented a variation which didn't need them directly < 1267533249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Well, with your help. < 1267533257 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, I've been to slava's house before < 1267533260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I formulated the language, you proved that it was equivalent (ignoring IO). < 1267533266 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did some bignum stuff for factor < 1267533269 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't be hatin' < 1267533278 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he moved to NZ < 1267533307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with his gigantic pile of profit from Factor < 1267533327 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (!())(~(:)~*(*)*:(*)~^S~(/)S:^):^ < 1267533327 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/**/***/****/*****/******/*******/********/*********/**********/***********/************/*************/**************/***************/****************/*****************/******************/*******************/********************/*********************/**********************/***********************/************************/ ...too much output! < 1267533335 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just wrote that off the top of my head < 1267533351 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: His profit seemed to be spent on large mac displays and stuff < 1267533359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget the Mac Pro. < 1267533360 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and macbooks < 1267533365 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1267533371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he actually profits from Factor though :P < 1267533376 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it too < 1267533381 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his place was pretty dumpy < 1267533400 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he makes good блины < 1267533406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what his day jorb is < 1267533425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you could have just said "pancakes" < 1267533435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I can type google.com/translate_t in about 0.5 seconds by now < 1267533458 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No < 1267533462 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not the same < 1267533481 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a rough /American/ translation but they are not at all the same < 1267533567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: have you been here before under another nick? < 1267533613 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No < 1267533620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, under the same nick? < 1267533622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recognise you < 1267533678 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same nick < 1267533688 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have seen me in other channels < 1267533693 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: it's 6:30 AM < 1267533694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe... how long ago? < 1267533699 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know. < 1267533703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's 12:41 am < 1267533709 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[06:38.01] * Received a CTCP TIME from scarf < 1267533731 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your clock is 3 minutes slow, unless you're in a UTC-6:03 timezone < 1267533740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267533774 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed 3 minutes slow < 1267534164 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267534207 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning augur < 1267534215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1267534285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technical discussion about antelopes. < 1267535383 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ant elopes with his fellow queen. < 1267536719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#usys sure is lonely < 1267536725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< >_> < 1267536814 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1267536815 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1267536820 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what should i destroy today < 1267536820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1267536820 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267536825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yourself. < 1267536825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267536826 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said < 1267536827 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls < 1267536827 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.15927 < 1267536829 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.15957 < 1267536831 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1267536837 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`./test.sh < 1267536838 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267536853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267536854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.16082 < 1267536873 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd / && ls < 1267536874 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267536880 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd / && ls < 1267536880 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267536889 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /etc && ls < 1267536890 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatives < 1267536898 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cd /lib && ls < 1267536899 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267536904 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /lib && ls < 1267536905 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp \ firmware \ init \ ld-2.9.so \ ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 \ libBrokenLocale-2.9.so \ libBrokenLocale.so.1 \ libSegFault.so \ libacl.so.1 \ libacl.so.1.1.0 \ libanl-2.9.so \ libanl.so.1 \ libattr.so.1 \ libattr.so.1.1.0 \ libblkid.so.1 \ libblkid.so.1.1.0 \ libbsd.so.0 \ libbsd.so.0.1.6 \ libbz2.so.1 \ libbz2.so.1.0 < 1267536922 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it so sure that this is actually secure < 1267536928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is absolutely secure. < 1267536939 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I do `run rm -rf / < 1267536946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you break out of the plash sandbox, which overrides every single system call, you will find yourself within an empty chroot. < 1267536956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From which you then must find a vulnerability in the Linux kernel to escape. < 1267536960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck. < 1267536976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: One, all changes are revisioned. Two, you can't delete anything that isn't yours. < 1267536978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1267536978 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.16399 < 1267536986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stuff's ours. < 1267536991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you remove it, we'll put it back in one command. < 1267536992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1267536993 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1267536996 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd .. && ls < 1267536997 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackenv.16464 < 1267537001 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd ../.. && ls < 1267537002 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267537007 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /tmp && ls < 1267537008 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackenv.16547 < 1267537011 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1267537020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`id < 1267537021 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=1856920 gid=1856920 < 1267537022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`id < 1267537023 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=1642345 gid=1642345 < 1267537025 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mkdir /home < 1267537025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New user each time. < 1267537026 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267537035 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd / && ls < 1267537036 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267537042 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it already existed < 1267537045 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, i'm stupid < 1267537048 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /home && ls < 1267537049 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot < 1267537062 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkdir /home/asiekierka && cd /home && ls /home < 1267537063 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267537068 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mkdir /home/asiekierka && cd /home && ls < 1267537069 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267537075 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mkdir /home/asiekierka < 1267537076 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1267537078 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /home && ls < 1267537079 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot < 1267537083 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't like you. < 1267537086 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /home/hackbot && ls < 1267537087 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot.hg < 1267537118 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd $PWD && ls < 1267537119 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ help.txt \ huh \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.17038 < 1267537124 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooookaay... < 1267537125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd $PWD; how pointless. < 1267537131 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're angering me, HackEgo < 1267537148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 2>&1 after each command < 1267537150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see errors < 1267537157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mkdir /home/asiekierka 2>&1 && cd /home && ls < 1267537158 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/asiekierka': Permission denied < 1267537162 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooh < 1267537166 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not shiny. < 1267537169 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh <( cat 'cd $PWD' ) < 1267537175 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /lib && ls < 1267537176 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp \ firmware \ init \ ld-2.9.so \ ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 \ libBrokenLocale-2.9.so \ libBrokenLocale.so.1 \ libSegFault.so \ libacl.so.1 \ libacl.so.1.1.0 \ libanl-2.9.so \ libanl.so.1 \ libattr.so.1 \ libattr.so.1.1.0 \ libblkid.so.1 \ libblkid.so.1.1.0 \ libbsd.so.0 \ libbsd.so.0.1.6 \ libbz2.so.1 \ libbz2.so.1.0 < 1267537182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: a file called cd $PWD? < 1267537207 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd / && ls < 1267537208 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1267537209 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_arithmetic < 1267537211 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd /lib64 && ls < 1267537212 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp \ firmware \ init \ ld-2.9.so \ ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 \ libBrokenLocale-2.9.so \ libBrokenLocale.so.1 \ libSegFault.so \ libacl.so.1 \ libacl.so.1.1.0 \ libanl-2.9.so \ libanl.so.1 \ libattr.so.1 \ libattr.so.1.1.0 \ libblkid.so.1 \ libblkid.so.1.1.0 \ libbsd.so.0 \ libbsd.so.0.1.6 \ libbz2.so.1 \ libbz2.so.1.0 < 1267537234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fundamental theorem of arithmethic (also called the unique factorization theorem) is a theorem of number theory. The theorem says that every positive integer greater than 1 can be written as a product of prime numbers (or the integer is itself a prime number)." < 1267537239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's absolutely simple english /rolleyes < 1267537318 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run uname -r < 1267537319 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 < 1267537329 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, old linux kernel versions! < 1267537342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libBrokenLocale and libSegFault, the best libraries evar. It's too bad they're not exactly what it says on the tin (tvtropes ref); libBrokenLocale (as far as I can tell) doesn't break locales, and libSegFault doesn't cause segfaults. < 1267537422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/849736.txt?key=mp48bw1mgnnh2sbcrtayq an actually simple rewrite of the start of that article < 1267537445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends whether the audience is someone who knows Simple English and no english maths terminology or someone who knows Simple English and english maths terminology < 1267537445 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, a theoretical question < 1267537449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I imagine the latter is quite rare < 1267537466 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I would in fact find a working linux kernel vulnerability (the chance being 1:infinity in our current reality), what would happen? < 1267537474 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, and used it on HackEgo) < 1267537478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't. < 1267537485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you'd have to escape the plash sandbox (VERY hard). < 1267537488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'd have to use the exploit. < 1267537506 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it theoretically happened? < 1267537510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd need to find a serious vulnerability in Plash (very unlikely), and then a serious vulnerability in Linux's chroot code (almost impossible). < 1267537525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Then you would find yourself on Gregor's system, as a user with no privileges. All you could do would be to delete HackEgo. < 1267537540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you then found a Linux exploit that let you elevate to root, you would then be able to wipe out Gregor's VPS. He probably has backups. < 1267537552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nothing would really happen except I'd waste time and get banned? < 1267537559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1267537571 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HackEgo would disappear? < 1267537592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until the backup was restored; so a few hours. < 1267537597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd probably be set to ignore you afterwards. < 1267537961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, why isn't anyone interesting online. :P < 1267537973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you need a vulnerability exactly in the chroot code, you just need a local privilege escalation so that you get root inside it; that thing's not supposed to hold raptors, after all. Still, a combination of plash and linux vulnerabilities isn't exactly trivial, and really, getting access to someone's virtual server can't be worth the trouble. < 1267537974 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, why can't I do anything interesting in Hack(gr)Ego(r) < 1267538034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux local privilege escalation: Even three-year-olds can do it < 1267538044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vulnerability in chroot code is more likely than privilege escalation < 1267538053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you'll only be a useless user. But still. It's the outer VPS. < 1267538062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use up all his disk space if he hasn't set a quota (he probably has, though). < 1267538075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could jam his network, though you could do that from HackEgo anyway. Pointless, though. < 1267538076 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he had a Mac, I could run Lose/Lose on it maybe < 1267538186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Royal Standard is never flown at half-mast, as the Sovereign never dies (the new monarch immediately succeeds his or her predecessor)." < 1267538205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE QUEEN: Literally immortal < 1267538239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So could you design a faster-than-light information-transfer system based on killing royalty? < 1267538255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267538289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A. The Queen has four Corgis – Linnet, Monty, Holly, Willow. She also has four Dorgis (cross-breed of Dachshund and Corgi) Cider, Berry, Candy, Vulcan. < 1267538292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Queen has a dog called Vulcan. < 1267538364 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows HackEgo's IP? Just wondering < 1267538369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois < 1267538413 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1267538418 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need longer output from HackEgo < 1267538472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone has any fun idea < 1267538529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there some DCC thing, or was that a different bot? Do you remember, fungot? < 1267538530 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: an elven cloak: the hitchhiker's guide to the moonlight and the cimmerian. they are found in many places, not surprisingly, are large, dark shape rose from the chaos and gave it to open locked doors. < 1267538550 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise? < 1267538585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's EgoBot < 1267538590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe HackEgo does it too < 1267538628 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo Seems To Be Failing < 1267538635 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HESTOBEF < 1267538656 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to compile something and ./configure just won't work < 1267538975 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise I just got my highest upvoted comment on reddit ever < 1267538993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: ah, -649 points! < 1267538995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're improving! :D < 1267539001 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1267539004 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what -649 points < 1267539114 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/b81mh/what_is_the_style_of_hat_worn_by_david_hilbert_in/ < 1267539117 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is making me lol < 1267539121 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hilbert's Epsilon Hat. < 1267539121 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1267539154 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My mom wears one when she gardens. I'm sure you could borrow it. < 1267539155 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1267539481 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kr.img.blog.yahoo.com/ybi/1/9d/96/know_blog/folder/3/img_3_211_3?1141364520.jpg < 1267542666 0 :asiekierk!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1267542703 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267542923 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1267543035 0 :lifthrasiir!LkqzU052@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1267543548 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267543834 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1267543908 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267544036 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267544103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267544712 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267544995 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-166-170-253.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267545746 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267546559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267546836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I'm writing that thing i said i would explaining why files suck < 1267546864 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1267547018 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267547083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be long < 1267547169 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267547183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : all of these just to reduce angular momentum by itself? < 1267547190 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267547200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angular momentum is a conserved quality. hth. < 1267547240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an earthquake couldn't change it, since that's just internal to the earth < 1267547313 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1267547316 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1267547350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what changes iirc is the moment of inertia, determined by the mass distribution. and that combined with angular momentum changing the rotation and axis. < 1267547368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*changes < 1267547518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The word-pair "combat-wombat" keeps going round my head. < 1267547526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds somewhat awkward < 1267547573 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267547657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combat Wombat; that could be the latest Pokémon ripoff. < 1267547696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kombatto Wombatto < 1267547700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Kombattu Wombatto < 1267547829 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Battletoads rip-off < 1267547996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267548004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combat Wombat vs. Battle Toad < 1267548008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. Altercation Albatross < 1267548470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: almost finished the article < 1267548748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you break out of the plash sandbox, which overrides every single system call, you will find yourself within an empty chroot. < 1267548758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the matrix! < 1267548870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: okay, it's done < 1267548871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1267548895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ping < 1267549966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Pretty much. < 1267550002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :コンバット・ウァンバット！ < 1267550024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: pingping < 1267550034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think files are good? < 1267550034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find your japanese questionable < 1267550043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, i just see question marks. < 1267550102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hah. < 1267550122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think they're a sign of a poor type system in the OS. < 1267550132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good! < 1267550135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you will like my article. < 1267550144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only I had somewhere to put it; I haven't registered usys.org yet. < 1267550150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really? An associative array of chars? < 1267550154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1267550159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Associative array of char*s. < 1267550196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't let your characters associate with arrays < 1267550222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1267550320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Guess the language: < 1267550324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real :: answer = 42 < 1267550337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird. < 1267550339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran 90. < 1267550342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1267550361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1267550403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1267550494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo. < 1267551754 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267551835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Gregor. < 1267552080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267552162 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267552219 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267552227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267552782 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267553013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hail. < 1267553353 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267553431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267553789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started defining an extension of the rationals with n/0, then I ended up having to define 0/n as special too. Now I'm having to define 0 =/= -0. < 1267553796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sneaking suspicion this is turning into something that isn't anything at all. < 1267553811 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 IS EVIL < 1267553857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to have 0/0 as a special case, I think. < 1267553873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a separate weirdtional where 0*(0/0) = 0. < 1267553986 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267554515 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise ... why < 1267554543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I was going to have a consistent system with 0/n, dammit, no matter what I had to do! < 1267554793 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BREAKING NEWS: INCREDIBLE COMPUTER SCIENTIST EHIRD CRACKS TEN MILLION YEAR PROBLEM < 1267554809 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1267554875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddap :) < 1267554950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, "nullity" can be defined in an axiomatic system. < 1267554952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, mine has 0*(n/0) = n. < 1267554967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0*(0/n) = 1, but that's an entirely separate issue :P < 1267554968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy just claims that he had added it to the ordinary one used for arithmetic. < 1267554977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... Bullshit. < 1267554996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1267555001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not added it, "discovered" it. < 1267555006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making a symbol up for it. < 1267555116 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise admit it :! < 1267555148 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to reconsile division by zero is as braindead as these people trying to 'hide from the clutches of godelian incompleteness' it's just fucking stupid < 1267555193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also fun. < 1267555196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing it seriously. < 1267555207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it to see what crazy, crazy things you have to entail to get it working. < 1267555436 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267555629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mathematical arithmetic is sociologically invalid" —discoverer of Nullity < 1267555642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 100% true < 1267555804 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay NULLITY < 1267556106 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1*-1 = 1 is EVIL and StUPID < 1267556482 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys. < 1267556490 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohiho < 1267556561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 * -1 is the TIME CUBE < 1267556579 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267556722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cat is being really weird. < 1267556742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She'll sleep on my bed for a while, then get up and meow at me. I look at her, and she goes back to sleep. < 1267556836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 = pi < 1267556837 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn an esolang that's fun and makes programming a challenge. Any suggestions? < 1267556839 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267556858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainFuck then Befunge then 2L then Glass :P < 1267556863 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :javawizard < 1267556872 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to try befunge. < 1267556872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Give us some desired weights for "fun" and "challenge" < 1267556885 0 :javawizard!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :javawizard2539 < 1267556892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Agda < 1267556893 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, somewhat more fun, somewhat less challenge. < 1267556896 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm pretty don with BF. < 1267556905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Self-promotion ey?! < 1267556913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have none of that round 'ese parts! :P < 1267556915 0 :javawizard2539!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp < 1267556928 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYB! < 1267556932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Pft, it's "not challenging enough" for most here, I would guess. < 1267556937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well. Yeah. < 1267556942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is a pretty decent language. < 1267556958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any language with the Gregor Richards stamp of approval! :P < 1267556966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hahah. < 1267556982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is basically the object-lambda calculus. < 1267556991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty much. < 1267556996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with classes. < 1267556996 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, esolangs've been around for a damn long time. < 1267557000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of < 1267557002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I only mentioned it because dev_squid mentioned it first. < 1267557010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, INTERCAL. :) < 1267557023 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hey, if Befunge is fun, I'll try it. :) < 1267557062 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on the "lighter" side is Kipple. < 1267557082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the "heavier" side, why not try Malbolge? < 1267557084 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh balls, Befunge looks interesting. :D < 1267557142 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah! I actually read about Malbolge before; I'm looking for a challenge, but that's a little outside of the definition. That is, impossible. :) < 1267557164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't let cpressey seduce you < 1267557174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He gave us so many ambiguities in the -98 spec we're still suffering :P < 1267557224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWELVE YEARS LATER < 1267557308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my fault that no one on the committee said "this needs to be more rigorously defined". People preferred to complain about things that really matter, like that my HTML was missing

tags. < 1267557337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267557352 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1267557354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homespring < 1267557364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the one i couldn't remember the name of. < 1267557799 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey. < 1267557815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The sequences ‘ . ’ and ‘. .’ are required to cause a causality paradox in all con- < 1267557815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forming implementations. As such, there are no conforming implementations.]] < 1267557834 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Befunge is awesomesauce. Where'd you get the idea? < 1267557846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biota; telepathically :P < 1267557890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, no. < 1267557896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmigaVision < 1267557899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BASIC < 1267557912 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing "goto 100" with an ASCII arrow pointing to line 100. < 1267557932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was exposed to FORTH at the time. < 1267557990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biota, for all I can tell, is a lot closer to what I'd call a cellular automaton, though not exactly cellular. < 1267558071 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, did you write an interpreter for Befunge, or didja just idealize it? < 1267558136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: I wrote an interpreter for the first version (-93). Being not so much into writing specs at the time, it sort of defined the language, alongside some crude documentation. < 1267558171 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what did you write it in? < 1267558172 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For -98 I compiled the spec with input from the Befunge mailing list at the time, and wrote a very buggy implementation based on it. < 1267558182 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool. < 1267558183 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: C (both of them.) < 1267558202 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write all my interpreter prototypes in assembly. :) < 1267558202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it was compiled with DICE C on an Amiga 500, originally... < 1267558207 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tedious. :| < 1267558260 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly's fun, but I tend not to implement languages in it often. I guess Shelta is one, and I did try to implement Befunge in x86 once. < 1267558277 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try". LOL. < 1267558325 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it was an implmentation of Befunge-93 that I *think* *mostly* works, but I remember it failing badly on some example sources. < 1267558353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The executable was only like 4K or something in size though. < 1267558367 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. I remember trying to make a simple BF interpreter in x86 Asm but then failing epicly. To this day, I still don't know what I was doing wrong. >:( < 1267558381 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1267558443 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm...there's this guy that made a 166-byte BF compiler. < 1267558459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1267558477 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is kittenpunchingly smaller than the 256-byte compiler by Meuller. < 1267558482 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck. < 1267558490 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what /system/ X_X < 1267558497 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux x86. < 1267558499 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO WHAT END < 1267558514 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt) < 1267558602 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it violates every single ELF standard in existence, but it *is* 166 bytes. < 1267558637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ~breadbox is <3. < 1267558642 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it. < 1267558652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also wrote the CGI INTERCAL game. < 1267558674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html < 1267558677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tiniest ELF executable < 1267559087 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1267559252 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Befunge interpreter. Where? < 1267559285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267559344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: I dunno, there seem to be lots to choose from. I've heard a lot good about http://sourceforge.net/projects/cfunge/ < 1267559381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably have to build it from that tarball, presumably that is not a problem. < 1267559452 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267559469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw you, X. < 1267559520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Needs POSIX < 1267559525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I assume that is no issue) < 1267559536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and, it doesn't do 93 really, only 98) < 1267559779 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-159-108-110.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267559875 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-15-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267559972 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how does Befunge handle negative numbers? < 1267560039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negative numbers are useless. < 1267560070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: They're like any other numbers in the language... except negative. < 1267560086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267560184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're stored in threes-complement < 1267560231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that would be implementation defined < 1267560245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, befunge doesn't expose the bit representation like that < 1267560251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except using some optional fingerprints) < 1267560251 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bashes AnMaster's head in with a plastic spork
< 1267560258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hard hat < 1267560259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267560283 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't take a particularly hard hat to protect against a plastic spork :P < 1267560288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, true < 1267560294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> 1 // (0 // 0) < 1267560295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 % 0 < 1267560295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> 1 // (0 // 1) < 1267560295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 % 0 < 1267560295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> 1 // (0 // 2) < 1267560296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 % 0 < 1267560296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1267560308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is that % as in modulo? < 1267560313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, % as in fraction < 1267560315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1267560317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in x/y < 1267560320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still. that makes no sense < 1267560323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/0... < 1267560329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the weirdtionals, where division by zero is perfectly acceptable because I said it is. < 1267560336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also leads to fun things such as all 0/n being unique. < 1267560342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267560349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "real 0" seems to be 0/1, because (n/1)/(0/1) = n/0. < 1267560367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently (1/2)/0 = 1/0 < 1267560371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who'da thunk it < 1267560389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I *somehow* suspect that certain things may break if 0/2 != 0/5 and so on < 1267560394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, mathematically < 1267560409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My way of working is: Define something to work. Find a contradiction. Fudge things so that it's no longer a contradiction. < 1267560417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D < 1267560421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm losing all sorts of properties of course, addition and multiplication don't even distribute over each other < 1267560446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh that follows from 0/x being allowed? < 1267560448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267560450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x/0 < 1267560462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I was finding out the multiplicative inverse for (x/0)s < 1267560471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/(x/0) = swap the two sides = 0/x < 1267560475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (0/x)*x = 1 < 1267560480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need distinct (0/x) for all x < 1267560487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1267560496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is your goal with this < 1267560505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make division by zero work. < 1267560512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good luck < 1267560549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually made it work sensibly (and in a rigorous way) then you would probably get the Fields medal at least! < 1267560574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that the resulting system is not likely to be very usable for anything < 1267560585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Of course. < 1267560588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unlikely. < 1267560588 0 :BlackOut!~BlackOut@83-215-15-148.stadt.dyn.salzburg-online.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1267560591 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267560592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributivity is a rather nice property < 1267560595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, depends on how you solve it < 1267560598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can define things but since you do lose properties like distributivity of addition it's not really addition any more < 1267560598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and yes indeed < 1267560609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hence not very Fields-worthy, it's just another formal system < 1267560611 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1267560636 0 :BlackOut!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267560639 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, alise is here. < 1267560667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh < 1267560687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm, don't you lose distributivity somewhere in the Cayley–Dickson construction? < 1267560698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that one of the few properties you didn't loose? < 1267560744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean alise is out of Britain? < 1267560750 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yay! My first Befunge program...sort of. I modified an example. :) < 1267560754 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, http://pastie.org/850440 < 1267560755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem here is that you lose distributivity over addition of fractions, not hypercomplex numbers :-P < 1267560769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1267560776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No. < 1267560782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh wait, this isn't even a ring any more is it? < 1267560782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that a bigger crisis is overriding atm. < 1267560786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^_^ < 1267560800 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a bigger crisis. Hmm. < 1267560872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you managed to solve it without loosing distributivity then you would get the Fields medal I guess ;P < 1267560888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd win the Pigs Can Fly medal because it'd be contradictory and we could derive anything. < 1267560891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you also lose associativity etc < 1267560906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a Pigs Can Fly medal < 1267560913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, me too! < 1267560932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I need to do to get one? < 1267560960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The n being irrelevant in (m/n)/0 disturbs me. < 1267560968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1267560970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do something that over-qualifies you for the Ig Nobel price? < 1267560992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, too much work < 1267561152 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, would you recommend (http://www.ashleymills.com/?q=befunge_applet_lite)? Most programs it's running makes it throw a "memory cell out of range" error when it hits a 'p'. < 1267561200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're p'ing into the 80x25 area? < 1267561202 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-159-108-110.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267561219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are, then I definitely wouldn't recommend it because it's buggy :-P < 1267561341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (1//0) < 1267561342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 % 0 < 1267561342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (1//0)+(0//0) < 1267561342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 % 0 < 1267561348 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, were you aware that there existed such a website as "www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info"? < 1267561368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing is, I'm not even sure that doesn't make sense. < 1267561386 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267561405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, I'm pretty sure he does know as we discussed a program on there recently < 1267561408 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense if and only if it's useful or makes sense. < 1267561415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, :D < 1267561511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: without it I can't seem to stick to one multiplicative identity :( < 1267561546 0 :MaXo2!~dwili@esp64-1-82-243-172-27.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267561567 0 :increnaisi!~increnais@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1267561569 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you're having trouble doing something, try proving its impossibility. < 1267561575 0 :increnaisi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267561606 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I didn't know that...anyway, I still can't find a working Befunge interpreter for Win32. < 1267561616 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might there be an IDE? < 1267561637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIN32 < 1267561638 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET OUT < 1267561639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET < 1267561639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUT < 1267561646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't want your kind here. < 1267561661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267561665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: But I don't accept the law of the excluded middle! :P < 1267561671 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, yeah...I only keep it for the game. < 1267561671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know, fallacy. Also: Joke.) < 1267561673 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*games < 1267561675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, for windows? No clue < 1267561679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't help you there at all < 1267561679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constructivism ftw, though. < 1267561686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a poor excuse :P < 1267561692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Only recently. (I haven't been involved in Befunge in a long time. I've spent much of my recent time designing weirder, less popular languages.) < 1267561699 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor do I if the law of the excluded middle is "Every statement has either a proof or a disproof." < 1267561704 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, like what? < 1267561715 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1267561735 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: If Befunge-98 is fine, my interpreter works on Win32. < 1267561749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: LEM = p|(p->false) < 1267561752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, yes. < 1267561767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Um, it was compiled with DICE C on an Amiga 500, originally... <-- fun. And unexpected. < 1267561784 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what's the difference? < 1267561802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you restrict yourself to the Befunge-93 instruction set: not much. < 1267561820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, SGML spaces < 1267561821 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it's just a superset? < 1267561835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Division by zero is defined (gives 0), SGML spaces, bigger funge-space < 1267561845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: I said "not much" not "nothing" :-) < 1267561852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey! ^ < 1267561861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, solved your problem there ;) < 1267561865 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Everything >= 1998 on this page: http://catseye.tc/cpressey/languages.html < 1267561894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: SGML spaces means that "x y" pushes the same three characters as "x y" < 1267561933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, there's the fact that due to more instructions, you can't rely on them reflecting like they did in Befunge-93. < 1267561943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (5//6)*(0//3) < 1267561943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 % 18 < 1267561972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure this means anything at all. < 1267561980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Anyway, http://iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/ccbi.html has a binary if you're interested. < 1267561980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also the stack and fungespace cells have the same size. < 1267561982 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1267561989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: '93 had 8-bit fungespace. < 1267561991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1267561994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, btw, what do you think should happen on EOF on stdout? The way I read the spec, the program should not end, but reflect < 1267562012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, same goes for STDIN < 1267562026 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, (a/b)(c/d) = (ac)/(bd), and a/b + c/d = (ad + bc)/(bd)? < 1267562027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Reflect sounds like saner behaviour that just bombing, for sure. < 1267562032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1267562036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Frac m1 n1 + Frac m2 0 = ((m1%n1) + (m2%1)) // 0 < 1267562036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Frac m1 0 + Frac m2 n2 = Frac m2 n2 + Frac m1 0 < 1267562036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Frac m1 n1 + Frac m2 n2 = ((m1*n2)+(n1*m2)) % (n1*n2) < 1267562040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, this means that ctrl-d doesn't kill the program of course < 1267562041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Frac m1 0 * Frac 0 n2 = m1 % n2 < 1267562041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Frac m1 n1 * Frac 0 n2 = 0 // ((n2%1)//(m1%n1)) < 1267562043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(//) :: WT -> WT -> WT < 1267562043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Frac m1 n1) // (Frac m2 n2) = (m1*n2) % (n1*m2) < 1267562051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general everything should reflect, not bomb < 1267562053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing inconsistent about treating 0/0 and its brethren that way. < 1267562053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not done with * < 1267562060 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there? < 1267562061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, then we wouldn't have any wars. < 1267562063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well iirc you didn't catch SIGPIPE? < 1267562068 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thanks. < 1267562073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, augh < 1267562074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Exactly! < 1267562086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World peace via Befunge. < 1267562091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey there < 1267562091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Might be, haven't tested. < 1267562094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wrong url < 1267562097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you meant "http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html" < 1267562098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267562106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Who knows? < 1267562116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see, if you forget that yourself, don't complain when I don't use the perma link :P < 1267562119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're equivalent, but no point in giving both alternatives on t he site. < 1267562125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Both are permalinks. < 1267562127 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, see if those are associative, commutative, and distributive. < 1267562130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hrrm < 1267562164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: They are not distributive. < 1267562172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1267562173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sacrificing that for having "coherent" division-by-zero. < 1267562178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Uh, I don't think so... < 1267562180 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, works perfectly. Thanks. < 1267562185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the failure of distributivity look like? < 1267562192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: No problem. :-) < 1267562196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually remember, I've been banging this out for a whole < 1267562228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> 0*(1//(3//0)) < 1267562228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 % 3 < 1267562229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267562235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs to be 1... or, wait, no. < 1267562236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's just when I type them by hand, "deewiant" is shorter so I use that. < 1267562243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (3//0)*(1//(3//0)) < 1267562243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 % 1 < 1267562244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!! < 1267562247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1267562252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (3//0)*(2//(3//0)) < 1267562252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 % 1 < 1267562253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nay!! < 1267562264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: fixem < 1267562415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1267562625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ping < 1267562754 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, beautiful. (http://pastie.org/850514) < 1267562792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 00 at the start? Seems pointless < 1267562801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to push zeros on an empty stack < 1267562811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all popping from empty stack yields zero < 1267562856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does cfunge optimize away pushing zero onto an empty stack? :) < 1267562865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the infinite loop at the bottom < 1267562879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that would take too long checking for! < 1267562882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not worth optimizing that < 1267562884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1267562895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THINK OF THE WASTED SPACE etc < 1267562900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, in an optimising JIT it might be worth it < 1267562908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, also, the stack size in y wouldn't work out < 1267562919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and I just use ip->stack->top for it < 1267562930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ip->stack points to TOSS) < 1267562939 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, true. < 1267562942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, you can check for that can't you. It means zeros at the bottom of the stack have to be recorded somehow. < 1267562955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recorded... with LOVE < 1267562964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well yes, and that would mean another 8 bytes wasted! < 1267562967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology tests that \ on an empty stack increases the stack size to 2 < 1267562976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1267562985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which broke my optimisation of \ < 1267562990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was peek, push < 1267562991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mine :-) < 1267562996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of pop push push < 1267563039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, but cfunge does stuff like only shrink the bounds of funge space in case anyone looks < 1267563042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (empty) push zeroes else peek push - might be faster < 1267563051 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's there because the interpreter doesn't seem to have a pause-at-terminate option. < 1267563057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I actually do that :P < 1267563066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-) < 1267563080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Well yes, it generally assumes command prompt usage < 1267563089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: You can always use ~ before @ < 1267563100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is wrong IMO :P < 1267563110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because normal usage is from terminal < 1267563113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than an infinite loop IMO < 1267563118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1267563124 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true. I just drag and drop. I'm lazy. < 1267563137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like more working than just typing < 1267563141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever floats your boat :-P < 1267563144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have the terminal open anyway all the time < 1267563156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he does < 1267563160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah windows < 1267563167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot windows terminal sucks < 1267563181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Please blow your predictable hot air elsewhere. < 1267563184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Windows sucks. We get it. < 1267563189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't say that. < 1267563192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's really not interesting, that it sucks. < 1267563192 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you want to get technical, ~ is, itself, and infinite loop. < 1267563197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what I said was that cmd.exe sucks < 1267563206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"since you have the terminal open anyway all the time" is obviously just prelude to "OH LOL WINDOWS SUX" < 1267563223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and if you disagree with that cmd.exe sucks, please explain why < 1267563227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: How's that < 1267563242 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so oldschool, I don't use a desktop environment on my Linux platform. /flex < 1267563257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: command.com is worse < 1267563262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1267563272 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1267563286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, like the programming teacher at university. He used twm. I was really surprised first time he hooked up his netbook to the projector.... < 1267563306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with twm? :-P < 1267563316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, very funny < 1267563322 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, ~ is an infinite loop that breaks when stdin changes. < 1267563323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ask alise instead < 1267563328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, what? < 1267563339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, ~ just waits, it doesn't busy loop < 1267563343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Well, semantically, I suppose you can say that < 1267563365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an argument from convenience, of course < 1267563374 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate B skal straks se film med C. < 1267563384 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B must immediately watch movies with C. < 1267563395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, if that is Swedish, it is extremely confusing... < 1267563401 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1267563404 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ~ doesn't halt the program (interpreter). It sends it into a loop that breaks when you input a character. < 1267563417 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, execution never halts. < 1267563431 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Hva de skal se, vites ikke enda! < 1267563433 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What to see, is not known yet! < 1267563437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "skal" Swedish in that kind of meaning? I think not. < 1267563447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "B shall/bark straks view movie with C" < 1267563453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, where "straks" doesn't exist < 1267563478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the second example I am convinced that this is Norwegian < 1267563483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, wait, it isn't shall or bark < 1267563485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it is "shell" < 1267563491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, since there is only one l < 1267563492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, in Swedish < 1267563495 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not Swedish, then. < 1267563500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Norwegian. < 1267563509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably < 1267563512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Danish? < 1267563524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure "hva" is only Norwegian. < 1267563534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `translate Hva de skal se, vites ikke enda! <-- yeah that looks like Norwegian indeed < 1267563575 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan tittari tillan titstan dullaa, dipidapi dalaa ruppati rupiran kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu. < 1267563586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I defer to Deewiant on that one < 1267563588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267563594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from Ievan polkka < 1267563608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what is that? < 1267563617 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Finnish that doesn't mean anything, I think. < 1267563619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A song < 1267563623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I see < 1267563627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://leekspin.com/ < 1267563642 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1267563643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ? Missing plugin? < 1267563647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's just onomatopoeic, it doesn't mean anything < 1267563659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: <3 < 1267563674 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Nice subversion :P < 1267563675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOVEFEST < 1267563679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leekspin one is a sped-up version of the Loituma one, IIRC < 1267563698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might not be sped up, can't remember. < 1267563701 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it sped up? < 1267563714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want me to check? :-P < 1267563763 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be sped up. < 1267563765 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267563771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one isn't, at least. < 1267563782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall a version that was but maybe I'm thinking of something else < 1267563796 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuapurista kuulu se polokan tahti jalakani pohjii kutkutti. < 1267563812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I actually think I'm thinking of caramelldansen < 1267563851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From the neighbour's sounded the polka's beat the bottoms of my feet were tingling" or something to that effect < 1267563886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The translation I saw was something like ". . . and set my feet a-tapping, oh!" < 1267563902 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267563917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's less direct a translation but equally valid I suppose < 1267563927 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1267564025 0 :cal!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267564025 0 :cal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267564135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you should host an .html file for me. In return, I will grant you: ONE (1) KITTEN UNICORN < 1267564155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds nifty. What .html? < 1267564186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called files-suck.html and it is about how files suck. < 1267564197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I realise that it is itself a file. < 1267564202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame society^Woperating systems. < 1267564228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, I'd love to see this :P < 1267564230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want this permanently hosted or why're you asking me? < 1267564277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, because I'm not entirely sure who else to ask. There isn't an htmlpaste.org or anything :P < 1267564289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THEN HOST IT < 1267564300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be an htmlpaste.org. < 1267564304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it lose much in plaintext form, then? :-P < 1267564316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful typography :| < 1267564325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1267564333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ITALICS < 1267564371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll host it if I get to put a CSS saying * { font-family: monospace } associated with it < 1267564381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that I verily will cry < 1267564403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about font-face: Comic Sans < 1267564415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works too I suppose < 1267564415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Google is working on strong AI in the same way that NASA is working on interplanetary travel. Not yet, but...someday. They're working on the smaller problems that need solving, and eventually they'll put it all together." —Norvig < 1267564415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope they know how to make individual components Friendly. < 1267564420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HOST IT < 1267564434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Host it — in SPACE. < 1267564473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I host it at http://codu.org/stupid-nonsense/files-suck.html < 1267564480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Host what? < 1267564501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It's an .html file. < 1267564530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Host it on Normish. < 1267564557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I forgot every single thing about Normish. < 1267564602 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like its IP address? < 1267564608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for one. < 1267564620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its IP address can be found somewhere in #rootnomic. < 1267564648 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1267564695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there Comic Sans Mono? < 1267564698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, combine them < 1267564701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1267564705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best worst idea ever. < 1267564711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1267564720 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ostensibly own normish.org and all, but I can't be bothered trying to figure out who I have it registered with. < 1267564728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, should be a bitmap font of course < 1267564732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267564746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1267564776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and the official name should he the full old style X font string < 1267564785 0 :dev_squid!~dev_squid@cpe-075-182-022-108.sc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267564787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. YES YES YES. < 1267564800 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You are my temporary hero. :P < 1267564809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and we should force alise to actually make this font for us < 1267564814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in return for hosting that thing < 1267564824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that thing should be forced to use this font) < 1267564834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it had to be done propertly according to specs < 1267564839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suggest a data URL. < 1267564840 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because finding a way to host a file is sooooo difficult :P < 1267564841 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge question. What's a good tactic to use when you're trying to print a fixed number of ASCII characters from the stack? < 1267564842 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. < 1267564846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Way too big < 1267564857 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point a CNAME record at a data URL. < 1267564862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, why fixed? But for 98? k < 1267564867 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267564875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Befunge-98: push the number of characters minus one, then use "k," (without the quotes) < 1267564882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, for 93, I would do a 0gnirts instead < 1267564893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, hey. http://pastehtml.com/ < 1267564895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: CNAMEs don't point at URLs < 1267564908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The main person who needs it may technically already have it. < 1267564911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1267564928 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the :P < 1267564935 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, 0gnirts? < 1267564946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, 0"string goes here" < 1267564949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. Pastey? < 1267564949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: 0-terminated string stored last-to-first < 1267564958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, well that is 0"gnirts" of course < 1267564962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. first character on top, so it's easy to print < 1267564965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then you can use the common idiom for it < 1267564973 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yep. Okay. :) < 1267564973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deerr < 1267564974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267564975 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know this. < 1267564975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, ^ < 1267564977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1267564982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :De :P < 1267564986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "last spoke" < 1267565002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, anyway: the idiom being >:#,_ < 1267565005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should read what you type < 1267565011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mirrored and vertical versions exist) < 1267565017 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, oh, I'm so dumb. I was thinking "Crap, if I use >:#,_ then I'll run into my other data" < 1267565025 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just push a 0 before...*facedesk* < 1267565026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, I read what other people say while I'm typing < 1267565026 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267565047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe you should glance over your line on occasion < 1267565055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no trouble reading both at once < 1267565070 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just point one eye at each thing you want to look at. < 1267565071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well sure, but then you have to disconnect your eyes < 1267565079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hah, beat you to it! < 1267565082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by half a second < 1267565085 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the contrary. < 1267565101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You lost from my POV < 1267565105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, lag means we will never know < 1267565114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was truly first < 1267565120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from uorygl: 1.08 second(s) < 1267565139 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about a hundred milliseconds of "extra" lag. < 1267565143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like there is no "truly first" < 1267565153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1267565156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Files Suck: http://pastehtml.com/view/5tmr7u1.html < 1267565161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have at it, you gallery of peanuts. < 1267565172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is it like very narrow < 1267565174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks weird < 1267565177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my browser < 1267565180 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267565186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30em ~= 10 words a line ~= best typographical reading width. < 1267565190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at a book's width sometime. < 1267565194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not center it in the window < 1267565200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than have it aligned out at the edge < 1267565210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I have to turn my head slightly to read it < 1267565210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Didn't feel like it. Would look weird with ragged-right text, anyway. < 1267565222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not comfortable for long sections < 1267565233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not adjusted margins? < 1267565253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers are really, really bad at justified text. < 1267565256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is forced to un-maximise browser window and move it so the text is near the middle
< 1267565265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the horror. < 1267565266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why don't they just implement the TeX algo? < 1267565271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's hard. < 1267565313 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A superior way to represent [a collection of unordered photos] would be as an unordered bag." < 1267565317 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that be easier for anyone? < 1267565333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser size was already 797x358 or thereabouts < 1267565335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. You know why Hitchcock never made a horror/thriller about unmaximising the browser window? < 1267565342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, because it was too horrible of course < 1267565345 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just double-checking...if I use a null-terminates string with >:#,_ the 0 will be popped off, right? < 1267565349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or because they didn't have browsers then :P < 1267565354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well that too < 1267565370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No needless arbitrary naming with the disadvantages given; it fundamentally is an unordered bag < 1267565374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: No, it won't. < 1267565381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, well, yes but also duplicated before that < 1267565383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Append a $ for that < 1267565386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there will be one zero at the end < 1267565391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Anyway, I think I come back to that later. Maybe. < 1267565397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the zero *will* be popped off, just not the last zero < 1267565401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was duplicated < 1267565412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "the" zero that was there originally is not popped off < 1267565416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267565427 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so the lack of any way to refer to a specific file using a string makes things easier for the user? < 1267565428 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, oh I see. < 1267565430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, depends on how : is implemented < 1267565431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267565445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantics, not implementation details, please. < 1267565454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Meaningless. My proposed system has no "files". < 1267565466 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so the lack of any way to refer to a specific photo using a string makes things easier for the user? < 1267565466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway read the rest before making a judgement based on the incomplete impression of the proposed system you have < 1267565474 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1267565476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I never suggested there was such a lack. < 1267565479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid, but Deewiant's answer is actually more useful than mine. Mine is just trying to answer to something else by exploiting loopholes in the question :P < 1267565486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it does not propose a solution. < 1267565493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says /why/ we need a solution, and some aspects it should have. < 1267565528 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so to review, the right-to-left version of >:#,_ is _!,#: right? < 1267565533 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1267565535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1267565561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, photos often have inherent ordering due to "taken before/after" < 1267565569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: It's _,#! #:< < 1267565573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one particular ordering you can give them. < 1267565580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an /inherent/ ordering. < 1267565584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the one the camera gives them and a rather useful one < 1267565590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1267565631 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah, I just found the flaw. :) < 1267565663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also, for many purposes a directory/file name model fits very well < 1267565683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firstly, no it doesn't. Secondly, that doesn't mean there aren't better structures. < 1267565692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like, "project/{source_data.csv, report.tex}" < 1267565694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1267565702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. That's just a hierarchy. < 1267565710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the file extension is another matter < 1267565718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it is in OOP: project.source_data is-a Table < 1267565723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :project.report is-a TypesetDocument < 1267565732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP is just one way you could represent that, of course. < 1267565736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, typeset with what system < 1267565742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an example, dammit. < 1267565745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267565759 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you say that a superior way to represent the collection of photos would be as an unordered bag. < 1267565770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not Document.Type.TypesetDocument.TeX.LaTeX? :P < 1267565774 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A directory full of files *is* an unordered bag, except that each file has a unique label. < 1267565784 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267565791 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, those labels never get in the way of anything. < 1267565802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here is an example path — just one of many possible sort of syntaxes — you could use. < 1267565803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as opposed to Document.Type.TypesetDocument.TeX.ConTeXt or Document.Type.TypesetDocument.roff.nroff < 1267565814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photos.select {takenAt==exactTimestamp} < 1267565816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or should that last one just be troff?) < 1267565820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps my example was not the best. < 1267565825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other points apply regardless, though. < 1267565826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, object database < 1267565829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what your aim is < 1267565833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, that's ONE EXAMPLE. < 1267565834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate OOP. < 1267565836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want OOP. < 1267565839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1267565841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most people understand OOP. < 1267565853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people wouldn't understand my system without lots of backstory to how it works :P < 1267565854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway the file name isn't used to order the files < 1267565865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never said it was. < 1267565874 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess programs have a reason for storing stuff in databases rather than directly in files. < 1267565884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a collection of photos, no photo has an inherent “name” — one must be constructed from some arbitrary properties of the photo. If the properties are not chosen well enough, there might even be conflicts. These are usually resolved by appending a meaningless number to the photo considered later — even though there is no inherent ordering. < 1267565886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is < 1267565891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we save photos to disk in a certain arbitrary ordering < 1267565903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we append -1,-2, etc when we've already seen a photo with the same generated name < 1267565908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, ACID is a pretty good reason for some usages < 1267565915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "which ones have -1" is completely arbitrary and stupid < 1267565917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no ordering < 1267565924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're exposing an implementation detail of the disk-saver < 1267565940 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I like the idea of not exposing implementation details. < 1267565957 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-15-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267565966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are good reasons to store images as png rather than raw uncompressed bits < 1267565972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Read on. < 1267565973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read on. < 1267565977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the whole section before commenting! Jesus. < 1267565991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a long article, and it covers that point :P < 1267565995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also, what is the image format you suggest? What about 32 bit floating point numbers per channel? < 1267566001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ < 1267566001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON < 1267566016 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading about Objective-C and how "transparent" it is really made me... < 1267566024 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one more question. What if I want to subtract a number and an already-pushed number in the reverse order that - does the job? < 1267566025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ...ontologise? < 1267566030 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about C and its pointers and how they're really inconvenient for a certain niche purpose. < 1267566063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, although I doubt anyone here will ever want to link to this piece of complete and utter tripe :P, http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html is now a more permanent home for it. Thanks cpressey! < 1267566100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if I just dumped some of those panoramas I made to disk I would get images half a GB large. That is why you use deflate on them. Even between the programs used to operate on said files. < 1267566109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I will say this one last time. < 1267566124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the next section now < 1267566124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until you read the entire thing /I will not answer anything more you say about it/ because this is /covered/. < 1267566172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surely the very fact that we so often forget to save our files should set alarm bells off in the mind of anyone who wants to improve user interfaces."? < 1267566174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't true < 1267566182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually save every half minute or such < 1267566193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We" is not "you" < 1267566216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you forget to save files? < 1267566224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never met anyone that had that issue mentioned there really < 1267566226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We" is not "me" either < 1267566254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of people losing significant amounts of data come power failure or similar < 1267566320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I read it all < 1267566331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how would this transparent compression/parsing work then? < 1267566356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would it be in the OS? < 1267566360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now I read it all < 1267566363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to answer < 1267566385 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise's wording is so hilariously whiny that it's hard to figure out what parts are the actual arguments and which parts are just whining :P < 1267566392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, true < 1267566406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole thing breaks down because there aren't common formats for many purposes < 1267566441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be a OS level supported document.cas for mathematica and maxima? < 1267566454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never mind that those aren't compatible in design at all) < 1267566473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, png can't be used for HDR images < 1267566484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to a lack of support for such things as floating point values per channel < 1267566524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number of data formats that could be somewhat commonly supported is huge. And should you use lossy or loseless? < 1267566540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, mathematica has a data structure it stores notebook files in. < 1267566564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also png doesn't support layers for example < 1267566576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you use xcf or psd? Or something that supported both? < 1267566597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You assume that there is one single type to represent images for everyone. < 1267566601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1267566602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You assume there is only one format per single type. < 1267566603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1267566609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you do because your arguments are based on that. < 1267566615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I point out that apart from common data interchange formats this breaks down < 1267566635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[21:47] AnMaster: and then, png can't be used for HDR images" < 1267566640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So HDRImage doesn't support the PNG backend. < 1267566651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, What exactly is HDRImage? < 1267566655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a single thing < 1267566657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it is not < 1267566663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want to process HDR images in a special way that some standard HDRImage class wouldn't work for, just have your own HDRImage in your thing. < 1267566674 0 :ruhtranayr!~ruhtranay@c-76-112-204-68.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267566763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sorry, but that statement doesn't mean anything until you define what you suggest a "standard HDRImage class" would be able to do < 1267566769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a class. < 1267566779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I copied that from you < 1267566782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vector class in a standard library may not be appropriate for all uses of vectors. < 1267566789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1267566790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you make your own if it's not suitable. < 1267566792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1267566815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, but point is then you need to define your own way to serialise it < 1267566821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1267566834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All objects have a common serialisation format. If you want to use the standard image backends, call them according to their interface. < 1267566836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what you don't want to do is store any HDR image raw. < 1267566840 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My second Befunge program. :) < 1267566841 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/850663 < 1267566845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 500 MB is *after* deflate < 1267566846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before < 1267566850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See above. < 1267566854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before is several times larger < 1267566865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then you need to interface with it < 1267566874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Deflate is a piss-poor compression format for most anything. ;) < 1267566888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Trivial. Defining such a custom representation should not be very common, anyway. < 1267566893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be a library entirely for it, most likely. < 1267566893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you know png uses it? And that works out quite well < 1267566895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: Note that if you don't really have a need to head left after printing, you can also use >:#,_v#: which heads down at the v when it's done < 1267566912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still crap. < 1267566916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I take it you, being sane, have mostly no objections to the article :P < 1267566923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also, since tiff is the common format here, you have basically packbits, lzw deflate to select from < 1267566930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eh, it's a bit whiny. But *shrug*. < 1267566931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and there, deflate beats the other ones < 1267566941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the contents, not the whininess. < 1267566948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1267566952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially. < 1267566985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't write it to be whiny, anyway. Maybe it's just because I'm almost certain I'm right :P < 1267566990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I always found file systems a very nice way to organise data though. *shrug* < 1267566994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or I'm inherently whiny. < 1267566999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the latter! < 1267567017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1, you don't know any better systems. 2, we've established that you're basically designed for using Unix. < 1267567018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also, go implement it < 1267567022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I find that file systems work very well for organising very specific forms of data. < 1267567023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just makes /you/ faulty. :-) < 1267567024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am. < 1267567031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I do like plan9 though < 1267567032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything inherently hierarchical, basically. < 1267567034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to write the principles to create a design to implement it. < 1267567047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is no reason to make everything a tree, of course. < 1267567053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I just don't want to use it for daily use due to the lack for certain things, like supporting my disk controller < 1267567059 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that hierarchical file systems fail where hierarchies fail. < 1267567060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. Just saying they work very well when a tree is natural. ;) < 1267567065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least last I checked) < 1267567070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trees: Good for representing trees. < 1267567074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1267567080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1267567089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1267567128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see an OS where you just stick values in data structures when you want them to be organised somehow.
< 1267567156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is scheduled to be invented right after the "do what I mean" operation < 1267567159 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I "p" a null or non-printable ASCII character to a position? Will the rest of the line shift left? < 1267567159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, my OS here. I'd ask you to purchase me, but it's free. < 1267567166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What? You believe serialising data structures is hard? < 1267567168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still a few years off sadly :P < 1267567173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1267567175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no... < 1267567179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orthogonal persistence: Yeah, serialise objects to disk. Easy. < 1267567184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking for freaking Smalltalk. < 1267567188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A user interface where you create a data structure: That's what ... most UIs are. < 1267567195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, then I misunderstood you < 1267567218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to say "I want these images organised into a single group. I'll stick them into a bag." < 1267567231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought you meant like "here are some data structures with values, organise them in a sensible way" < 1267567249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. I want "Here are some values, stick them into this data structure." < 1267567250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my os is #usys btw, in case i haven't said that enough already < 1267567271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, try mov ;P (intentional misinterpreting) < 1267567298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Saving"? Bah. That's sync. < 1267567314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saving? Bah. That's done quicker than you can even notice. < 1267567318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually saving makes sense sometimes < 1267567322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the computer. < 1267567324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a database transaction < 1267567330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want things either complete or not done at all < 1267567333 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Saving" is an action derived from my level of interest in the data. < 1267567335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that isn't the common case < 1267567347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, such an "auto-saving" system of course requires revision history. < 1267567352 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I "p" a null or non-printable ASCII character to a position? Will the rest of the line shift left, potentially changing program flow? o.o < 1267567359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just deleting the entire contents of a document would permanently erase it; obviously untenable. < 1267567363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm saying "Saving? Isn't that just making 100% sure it's on disk? ... So, sync()." < 1267567366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have everything versioned! < 1267567366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know how long saving a 700 MB image in RAM to disk takes? < 1267567367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo hoo < 1267567374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: No, you just get a weird character at that location. < 1267567383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, even with no compression < 1267567387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One, deduplicative storage (plan 9 already does basically what i'm saying and it uses deduplicative storage < 1267567388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1267567390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, background tasks < 1267567396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three, compression if it would work well < 1267567396 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: You can read it back with "g", or try to execute it (at your peril) :) < 1267567407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: More than it takes to record a 10k modification transaction to that image on disk. :P < 1267567421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 1) doesn't really work well when the data moved inside a block (and you can't do it per byte for obvious reason) < 1267567431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes it does. < 1267567437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Log storage. < 1267567442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four, it's stored in the cloud anyway. < 1267567448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are solved problems. :) < 1267567453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs cpressey to death. Fatally!
< 1267567457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh! < 1267567469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well sure... that would take long to rerun! That switch from one colour space to another < 1267567473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing all the values < 1267567476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :P < 1267567494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's safe to just assume that for anything even remotely in this vicinity, "AnMaster doesn't get it" is pretty axiomatic < 1267567502 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to regain credibility by explaining it's an actual cloud
< 1267567522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I like your thinking. < 1267567523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I do see how it works for some cases. I just think the problems it solves are less than the new problems it introduces < 1267567526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're promoted < 1267567532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So clearly if you want fast access, you then have (in the background) a write of the switched-colour-space file. < 1267567545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The existence of Plan 9 and its use by people for actual work using venti/fossil prove that this is a solved problem. < 1267567553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it does exactly this method of deduplicative storage. < 1267567563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never said venti was bad. On the contrary < 1267567565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love venti < 1267567566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solved problem. Seriously. Not interesting. No point discussing, because it's solved. < 1267567571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IT DOES EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING! < 1267567573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think there are good and bad usages for it < 1267567577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you wish to save space somehow, then you make the previous modification into a modification transaction that undoes that. < 1267567582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't even used it for serious stuff < 1267567588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just read about it on wikipedia, anyway < 1267567598 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, cool, cool. A VERY neat thing would be being able to "p" a some char to a line, shifting the rest of the line left. That'd make for some very cool SMC. :) < 1267567599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have used it in qemu < 1267567605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I liked it < 1267567607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, to create a hello world file < 1267567621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... why do you love making up shit? < 1267567621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev_squid: The TOYS fingerprint has instructions for shifting lines and columns < 1267567649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because I realised this conversation was fruitless some years ago < 1267567675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe you would get more people interested if you wrote it in a less whiny style < 1267567682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be hard < 1267567719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only whiny insofar as I've thought about these concepts for ages and ages now so my presentation isn't very gentle < 1267567731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted to be a describer I wouldn't be a programmer < 1267567761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, further, yes I agree on *some* points, but far from all. Most importantly that while I agree file systems are suboptimal, they are better than the alternatives I have seen so far (venti is nice for some purposes, but have fun using it a partition with scratch data, like /tmp) < 1267567769 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are the coordinates calculated for "g" and "p"? 0,0 | 0,1 // 1,0 | 1,1 ? < 1267567772 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267567784 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being the first line, first character. :| < 1267567795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course existing solutions suck, that's why I'm building a better one < 1267567802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was an OS that didn't suck I wouldn't be making one < 1267567804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, describe it < 1267567816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a concrete level < 1267567825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't fully formulated it yet, only several outline designs, some concrete details, and some plans to combine them. < 1267567837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that's a good start I guess < 1267567843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what the fuck am I meant to do, ignore the problem just because I'm not some magician who can pull a fully concrete solution out of thin air? No < 1267567845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you provide the outline < 1267567856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's a difference between blunt and whiny. < 1267567858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder if I'm patient enough but I could explain one. < 1267567862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, well, I'm whiny. < 1267567864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, agreed < 1267567871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deal with it. :p < 1267567885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we can whine about you being whiny, can't we? < 1267567889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it evens out at least < 1267567902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you want our opinion, it is not our job to conform to you, it is your job to conform to us. And if you don't want our opinion, then why did you publish that file in here? < 1267567913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it for one person actually per their request < 1267567917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted it because I felt like it. < 1267567933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps somebody would be converted. < 1267567937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure. < 1267567977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only explain the design in #usys because it'll be bad enough dealing with one set of stupid questions (I am a lovely and compassionate person) < 1267567978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any desire to convert anybody, you'll have to write something a hell of a lot more compelling. I have no idea if the actual concepts you espouse are flawed, because I can't find them, I can only find your complaints about files, most of which seem to me to be unfounded and shortsighted. < 1267567995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just like your mom < 1267568003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Author does not appear to have defined a reduction for *[a b], which appears to render much of the post meaningless. Too much raw pork & opium?" < 1267568100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and, most data I need to store tends to form a tree. Even photos. It goes like panoramas//{output/final.tiff,{raw,intermediate}//} < 1267568116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so store it in an ordered list < 1267568126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the last part, sure, that could work for it < 1267568133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous parts form a neat tree < 1267568135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so store it as a tree-like structure < 1267568150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if trees containing strings are so good, why don't you program in them? < 1267568157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you use data structures, types, depending on the need? < 1267568164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but then, why should I have to bother about data types. Which way is fastest for me to do it in? < 1267568181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what, you don't like C and Erlang? They have data structures, you know. < 1267568196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't feel a need to program my file system < 1267568203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I don't see it as a programming language < 1267568216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your data structures in your program are the exact same kind of data as on a filesystem. < 1267568224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some ways yes < 1267568230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I really should heed my realisation that this is fruitless and stop talking. < 1267568231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but what about taking notes on paper < 1267568238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you organise it in data types there? < 1267568244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just write it down < 1267568244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1267568245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an idiot. < 1267568261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, the analogy is just as bad as your one < 1267568266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it is a parody of your < 1267568270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so somewhat worse < 1267568273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If writing to paper involved taking all the things you're going to talk about and organising them into one, single-d alphabet with little relation to the actual semantics... sure. < 1267568274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much though < 1267568287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you convert a mathematical formula before writing it down? No, you just write it down. < 1267568288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I meant, writing down notes during a lecture < 1267568290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is structured. < 1267568363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, but hardly in the way you suggest < 1267568369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm going to sleep < 1267568371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1267568381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god, the tedium is over. < 1267568399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have stuck to keeping everything about the OS private, but that just resulted in "hur where's your os mr project b slo". < 1267568412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eh, just write some code. :P < 1267568454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do what? Until I can answer that question it is hopeless. < 1267568717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a general idea how the system should be structured < 1267568724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $/, though./ < 1267568765 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267569833 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1267569993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I need to write Why Files Suck 2: Electric Boogaloo^W^WThe Better System < 1267570082 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267570130 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1267570139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, too much work. < 1267570201 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1267570235 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't write it, just sketch it out < 1267570268 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267570488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. I'd prefer to work on the actual system. < 1267570546 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do that < 1267570648 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-193-24.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267570719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. Sort of. < 1267570752 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1267570753 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267570950 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-159-107-222.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267571077 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1267571337 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267571411 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1267571423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I started defining an extension of the rationals with n/0, then I ended up having to define 0/n as special too. Now I'm having to define 0 =/= -0. < 1267571437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at wp:Wheel Theory ? < 1267571439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULLITY < 1267571455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(essentially the same as nullity, but sane) < 1267571506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc about that nullity thing and it's 0/0 != 0/0 < 1267571511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1267571553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i _think_ it has only 0/0 and 1/0 for the rationals < 1267571671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/wheel theory/ < 1267571789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they satisfy 0*(n/0) = n. < 1267571802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want to learn an esolang that's fun and makes programming a challenge. Any suggestions? < 1267571813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one seems to have mentioned unlambda yet < 1267571851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i guess it's all in what algebraic properties you preserve and which you discard < 1267571989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is going to break at least one of associativity and commutativity i think < 1267572046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0*0 = 0 => n = 0*(n/0) = 0*0*(n/0) = 0*n = 0 < 1267572070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0*n =/= 0 in general < 1267572085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for n an ordinary rational? < 1267572088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there is no real one "0" < 1267572095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 0/1 is usually what you think of < 1267572097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's 0/n for all n < 1267572100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1267572107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 is special though... and behaves rather erratically < 1267572167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well something's going to be < 1267572190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and 0/n != 0 < 1267572208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (n/0)^-1 = 1/(n/0) = 0/n and so (0/n)*(n/0) = 1 < 1267572210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that's obvious < 1267572240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I determined, I think using regular rational addition, that (m/0)+n = (m+n)/0, also < 1267572264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you start doing things like (3/0)/(0/0)*(0/3), though, I have no fucking clue what the result is < 1267572285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like one of the wheel theory axioms < 1267572323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I derived it :P < 1267572348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not quite < 1267572406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (x/0) exists then (x/0)^-1 exists. n^-1 = 1/n. 1/(x/y) = y/x. x*(1/x) = 1. therefore (x/0)^-1 = 0/x, and (0/x)*(x/0) = 1 < 1267572456 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this about (x/0) existing? < 1267572476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's associative and commutative, then everything having an inverse forms a group < 1267572478 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1267572507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Step 1. Define x/0 to work. Step 2. Find a contradiction. Step 3. Mess with shit until it works. Step 4. Go to step 2. < 1267572533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you ever end up messing with shit so that 0 =/= -0, you lose. Mess with some other shit. < 1267572542 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the shit you've messed with < 1267572563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... < 1267572568 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℝ \ {0} is a group btw :o < 1267572569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll do it in terms of multiplicative inverse. < 1267572589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0^-1 = 1/0 < 1267572600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1/0)*0 = 1 < 1267572613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n/0)^-1 = 1/(n/0) = 0/n < 1267572619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/n)*(n/0) = 1 < 1267572634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((use the definition of rational addition here to derive:)) < 1267572645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(m/0)+n = (m+n)/0 < 1267572653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1267572788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave oerjan to find the next contradiction :P < 1267572808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and n*(0/n) = 0. Obviously. < 1267572819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it wouldn't be division, would it? :P < 1267572853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n*(0/n) = 0, 0*(n/0) = n. Plugging in n=0, we get overwhelming support in favour of 0*(0/0) = 0. < 1267572866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we have 0/n for every other n, we have 0/0 too. < 1267572870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly how it's special. < 1267572891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot deduce contradictions without axioms < 1267572892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/0)^-1 = 1/(0/0) = 0/0 < 1267572897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (0/0)*(0/0) = 1 < 1267572905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Infer them sucka :P < 1267572927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to assume that multiplication is an abelian group < 1267572937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that gives you 0/0 = 1, pretty trivially. < 1267572944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1267572945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that breaks things so ssssh < 1267572949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1267572950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it does, at least.) < 1267572957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't found any breakage < 1267572961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so feel free to assume 0/0 = 1 :P < 1267572961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then i found one didn't i >:) < 1267572979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also when I say an integer I mean n/1. < 1267572985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. Anything else would be ridiculous. < 1267573023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 0 + x = x ? < 1267573039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which 0 do you mean? 0/1? < 1267573047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/n>1? < 1267573052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267573058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0/ns aren't really 0, though. < 1267573082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/n)*(n/0) = 1, whereas (0/1)*(1/0) = 1... er... okay. < 1267573088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they aren't 0, so there. < 1267573093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're some weird fractional 0. < 1267573099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x/y = x*(1/y) ? < 1267573102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 + x = x, sure. < 1267573111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes; I've defined all this in terms of multiplicative inverse. < 1267573125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no additive inverse. Too Complicated For My Poor Brain. < 1267573135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You get 0 =/= -0 pretty easily) < 1267573136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 = everything, obviously < 1267573147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 = 1, actually. Has to be in this system. < 1267573165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/(n/0) = 0/n, (0/n)*(n/0) = 1 < 1267573176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1/(0/0) = 0/0, and (0/0)*(0/0) = 1 < 1267573179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0*(0/0) = 0 < 1267573183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's 1 < 1267573190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: remember, 0*x =/= 0 all the time in this < 1267573226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for x = 1, i assume < 1267573246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/1)*(1/1) = 0, yes. < 1267573252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (0/0)*(1/1) = no fucking clue. < 1267573262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait < 1267573264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 1*1 < 1267573273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/0)*(1/1) = (1/1)*(1/1) = 1/1 < 1267573280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/2)*(1/1) = beats me < 1267573294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen nothing so far to disprove that multiplication is an abelian group (with 1 as identity) < 1267573309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ended up having multiple multiplicative or additive identities iirc at one point < 1267573313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the latter is 0/2 < 1267573315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and broke stuff trying to fix that < 1267573330 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's an abelian group on ℝ\{0} < 1267573338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: shut up :D < 1267573372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is based on the rationals not the reals just so i have convenient notation < 1267573382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as soon as my brain sees 0/pi it freezes up < 1267573400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continued fractions, man < 1267573409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, man < 1267573410 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℚ\{0} too < 1267573438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1/0)/(((0/2)+(3/0))*(1/3)) < 1267573441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that x/0 + y = (x+y)/0 looks weird, though < 1267573468 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, especially if you multiply by 0. oh wait < 1267573469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll repeat my derivation < 1267573511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a/1)+(c/0)=(a0 + 1c)/(1*0) < 1267573519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a/1)+(c/0)=(0 + c)/0 < 1267573521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1267573571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok only the denominator matters < 1267573579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_/x)+(y/0) = (x*y)/0 < 1267573590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what +(0/n) does for n>1 < 1267573601 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who pinged me? < 1267573605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me doesn't matter now < 1267573622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a/b)+(0/d) = (ad + b0)/bd < 1267573627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a/b)+(0/d) = ad/bd < 1267573635 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to try tryruby again
< 1267573643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's down < 1267573645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is gone < 1267573667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it's a squatted domain afaict < 1267573674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (1/2)+(0/3) = 3/6 < 1267573680 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's on a delayed disappearance scheme that triggered hours ago, it should be around < 1267573683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 1/2 < 1267573684 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on it hours ago < 1267573689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1267573694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ? no you weren't < 1267573695 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tryruby.org < 1267573698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tryruby died along with why < 1267573704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see, a mirror < 1267573723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1267573726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recreated from the ground up apparently < 1267573736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reusing the design strikes me as bad taste < 1267573740 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a strangely working backspace < 1267573745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby sucks anyway < 1267573757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so I think x+(0/n) = x < 1267573769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all n apart from 0, in which case it's x+(1/1) < 1267573785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that sounds correc < 1267573788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*correct < 1267573788 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1267573799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm that may mean i remembered correctly that someone from tryruby wanted to consolidate things with tryhaskell when the latter was announced < 1267573799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, when I'm deriving all this I'm assuming the other party isn't a weird 0-fraction monster. < 1267573803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now go work out what (m/0)+(0/n) is < 1267573888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if m is not 0, it's undefined still < 1267573911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No undefined, coppro. < 1267573915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't accept undefined. < 1267573940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you haven't defined m/0 where m != 0 yet < 1267573947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have. < 1267573961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:29] alise: 0^-1 = 1/0 < 1267573962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:29] alise: (1/0)*0 = 1 < 1267573962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:29] alise: (n/0)^-1 = 1/(n/0) = 0/n < 1267573962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:29] alise: (0/n)*(n/0) = 1 < 1267573972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m/0 is the fraction m/0. Rationals. < 1267573979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those provides an actual definition though < 1267573982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely an identity < 1267573992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the definition of the rational 1/2? < 1267574001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are their properties and relations < 1267574013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you accept m/0 as a number in and of itself < 1267574027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you accept 1/2 as a number in and of itself < 1267574034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.5 < 1267574041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a decimal representation of the rational 1/2 < 1267574044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't need to define stuff. just take the free algebra of his operations and quotient by whatever equations still hold < 1267574044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then m/0 + 0/n is m/0 for non-zero n, and m/0 + 1 for n=0 < 1267574045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail < 1267574045 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how does Ruby suck? < 1267574060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: "Let me count the ways. Uh, I've run out of tendrils." < 1267574080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to alise, every language sucks in too many ways < 1267574084 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can count ways that the current tryruby sucks < 1267574139 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-99-206.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267574157 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Wonky backspace. 2) Incorrectly interpreted a test as me completing the lesson < 1267574158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you do know what the rationals are right? < 1267574179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1267574196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you accept 1/2 as a number in and of itself, as opposed to "evaluating to 0.5" < 1267574197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is m*n the usual value for every nonzero integer m, n ? < 1267574211 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do. < 1267574211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, n/0 for all n>0 and 0/n for all n>0. < 1267574219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/0 is not a rational < 1267574224 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267574229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's a weirdtional. I'm defining an extension of the rationals. < 1267574241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Rephrase please? < 1267574242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. In that case, I answered your question < 1267574245 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:53:40] then m/0 + 0/n is m/0 for non-zero n, and m/0 + 1 for n=0 < 1267574265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you are completely failing to understand the spirit of this thing. it may be a stupid thing but that is no reason for interpreting it even more stupidly than intended < 1267574271 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. < 1267574295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is stupid ;) < 1267574296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) < 1267574305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is (m/1)*(n/1) = (mn/1) for m, n ordinary nonzero integers? < 1267574308 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made a cool program in Befunge. :) < 1267574308 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/850853 < 1267574320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, purely rational calculations are still rational. < 1267574322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the mn multiplication is ordinary integer multiplication < 1267574333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ones involving 0-fractions are surely irrational and insane to the highest degree. < 1267574334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I just realized something < 1267574343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: except multiplication by 0 < 1267574357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division of 0 cannot be considered to equal 0 in all cases < 1267574359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you involve a 0-fraction < 1267574366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/1)*normal = 0/1 < 1267574371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/2 too I think < 1267574374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except = 0/2 < 1267574374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to have separate zeroes for each 0/n < 1267574379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait has to be 0/1 < 1267574388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1267574388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/2 < 1267574390 0 :dev_squid!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who likes it?