00:00:01 or 9x above one of the points 00:00:14 fizzie, what does "positive and negative border" mean here? 00:02:11 -!- Oranjer has joined. 00:02:21 interesting, fizzie. sort of. 00:02:51 augur, correction: enlightening 00:02:56 (if only I know of what) 00:03:52 :p 00:03:58 :P 00:03:58 AnMaster: Hrm, well... let P be a set of patterns, S a subset of it, and define a partial order (denoted < for now) in S; now the positive border of S are such elements x of it that for all other elements y in P for which x < y, y is not in S. 00:04:57 mhm 00:05:10 AnMaster: And the negative border are the elements x in P\S such that for all elements y in P such that y < x, y is in S. Or something like that anyway. 00:05:42 fizzie, okay. But err, what is that useful for? 00:05:46 briefly 00:05:50 AnMaster: It's not a very useful construction "in general", but it's useful for analysing the complexity of algorithms that try to find frequent patterns in P. 00:06:04 AnMaster: This was some sort of "data mining"-themed course. 00:06:11 ah 00:07:15 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:07:59 Actually s/patterns/sets of items/; I don't think we made very much headway into finding actual patterns, just sets of items that tend to occur often together. 00:08:39 (And for some reason all the examples were about supermarket sales data, and finding out that people who buy beer also buy sausages, and vice versa.) 00:08:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:09:14 mhm 00:09:49 fizzie, that is rather strange, more varied examples would have been nicer 00:10:14 "Algorithmic methods of data mining P": "The course covers general topics in data mining, such as pattern discovery, clustering of data, and approximation of probability distributions. A special emphasis is put on algorithmic techniques to analyze discrete data." 00:11:00 Ha, the very first slideset of the course I opened -- https://noppa.tkk.fi/noppa/kurssi/t-61.5060/luennot/T-61_5060_04_frequent_sets.pdf -- starts with "Customer 1: mustard, sausage, beer, chips" (if you discount the title page). 00:11:10 fizzie, what is the "P" in the title for? 00:11:22 P denotes "acceptable for postgraduate students". 00:11:22 Postgraduate course 00:11:24 I think 00:11:25 Aye 00:11:44 Yes. It's the English version of the Finnish "L", which comes from... actually, where *does* it come from? 00:11:45 ah 00:12:01 "acceptable"? 00:12:11 Acceptable for a Licenciate degree? :-P 00:12:16 as in, you aren't allowed to attend such lectures otherwise? 00:12:28 err 00:12:33 I mean, attend other lectures 00:12:35 than those 00:12:42 You can, but you won't get any credit 00:12:43 You can, but you can't include them in the degree. 00:12:45 Right. 00:12:47 ah 00:12:56 I'll let Deewiant do the explaining, he seems to be faster. 00:16:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:16:41 -!- jcp has joined. 00:16:42 night 00:16:50 nice timing 00:17:33 oerjan, ffs. IWC at you 00:17:35 then night 00:24:48 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 00:25:24 how do two stacks emulate a tape? 00:25:56 Stack one is the elements before the tape head, stack two is the elements at and after the tape head. 00:26:17 You move forward by popping from 2 and pushing to 1, and back by popping from 1 and pushing to 2. 00:26:59 [0,1,2,3,4,5,6] where you're at alement 3 would be represented by ([2,1,0], 3, [4,5,6]), where [a1, a2, ...] is a stack where a1 is the top element 00:27:16 Oh yeah! 00:27:21 you can also keep the 3 in one of the stacks ofc 00:27:29 like in pikhq's 00:27:33 oklopol: When you're at alement 3, have you had three beers? 00:27:39 :D 00:27:43 exactly 00:27:48 oklopol: I was presuming just a stack. 00:28:00 Erm. Just two stacks, and no other data structure. 00:28:34 right, i just thought that was the clearest way to explain the idea 00:29:02 the conversion isn't that complicated :) 00:31:19 Yes. 00:32:05 hmm hmm alementary operations 00:32:25 integer matrices are pretty sexy 00:33:23 fizzie: What a ridiculous stoutment. 00:38:03 oerjan 00:38:12 you're vaguely familiar with complexity, right? 00:38:33 slightly more than vaguely, i'd say 00:38:56 whats the relationship between complexity classes and the chomsky hierarchy 00:38:57 well, the basics anyway 00:39:22 augur: well, regular languages = finite automata = finite space 00:40:02 ok, so theres a relation between some of the complexity classes and the chomsky hierarchy 00:40:02 (although the finite space is not immediately obvious, needs a proof because you can still move around in the input tape of the TM) 00:40:26 so in a sense, complexity classes are a finer grain of hierarchy than the traditional chomsky hierarchy 00:40:41 augur: context free is within polynomial time, O(x^3) 00:40:47 augur: yes 00:40:54 ok, thats all i wanted to really know. 00:41:01 now heres another question 00:41:17 augur: context sensitive = linear space as i mentioned the other day 00:41:42 is there any work on translating complexity classes into formal language theoretic terms? e.g. whats a convenient way to characterize, lets say, AM, as a class of grammars 00:42:15 AM = arthur merlin? that's a bit beyond the basics but i've heard the name 00:42:24 yeah 00:42:30 i mean, it doesnt have to be AM 00:42:30 im just saying 00:42:42 augur: i recall wikipedia has a list of some correspondences beyond the basic chomsky 00:43:46 i know various kinds of like 00:43:56 formalizations of certain classes of languages 00:44:06 that table at the end of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy 00:44:09 so the mildly CS right 00:44:28 well, im aware of that table 00:44:29 believe me 00:44:40 you'd think :) 00:44:44 im gonna puke my guts out in a boiling rage 00:44:53 but what im not sure of is how THAT relates to the complexity classes 00:44:55 or vice versa 00:45:03 im a grammar nerd, so i want to see grammars 00:45:11 complexity means nothing to me without interesting characterizations 00:45:15 brb food 00:45:17 augur 00:45:28 oh hm right 00:46:55 augur: well some of the things listed under the automaton column are complexities: linear-bounded and finite 00:47:07 which i already mentioned 00:47:41 and Turing machine itself, although that's up in the computability part of the hierarchy 00:49:42 oh well, i don't know more than those listed (and not all those) anyway 00:50:39 ok thanks :) 00:50:43 * augur hugs oerjan :D 00:56:03 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:57:01 -!- fax has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:11:50 Heh. cd burning program tried to burn to hard disk. Luckily IDE HDD doesn't respond to burner commands. 01:15:39 ughh I'm trying to emulate a pdp-11, but I am on a mac, and I only have an emulator for DOS, so I'm emulating DOS emulating Unix 7 01:16:45 Guest31015: yo dawg 01:17:05 ha 01:17:32 I think I'm turning into Unix! 01:17:38 ;login 01:17:44 root 01:17:51 root# 01:18:03 Guest31015: echo $PATH 01:18:35 a 01:18:35 a 01:18:36 a 01:18:37 a 01:18:49 Guest31015: ls /usr/bin 01:18:56 I can't type a colon 01:19:05 but it's bin, sbin and usr/bin 01:19:15 i have to seel 5; 01:19:19 *sleep 01:19:57 root@ 01:19:59 root# 01:20:06 Darn those keyboards that can't type all ASCII characters. 01:20:20 sh: Darn : command not found 01:20:53 #I'm still waiting for you to ls /usr/bin. 01:21:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:22:00 grep cc cd pwd ssh telnet bash sh [ 01:22:13 root@ 01:22:19 root# 01:22:31 aww screw it PS1="# " 01:22:37 # 01:23:37 cc --help 01:24:26 just compile yer code like this: cc "yer_code.c" -o "yer_executable" 01:24:41 # 01:25:14 apt-get install apt-get 01:25:52 sh: apt-get : I said unix not debian ( error -14 ) 01:26:17 wget wget 01:26:31 wget: couldn't resolve host 01:26:36 @ 01:26:38 # 01:28:09 # 01:28:20 # 01:28:27 ls / 01:28:44 afs bin boot cdrom dev emul etc home initrd.img initrd.img.old lib lib32 lib64 media mnt opt proc root sbin selinux srv sys tmp usr var vmlinuz vmlinuz.old 01:28:54 cat > hw.c 01:29:06 01:29:18 void main() { printf("Hello World!\n"); } 01:29:21 ^D 01:29:34 # 01:29:39 cc hw.c 01:29:44 ./a.out 01:29:50 hw.c: In function ‘main’: 01:29:50 hw.c:1: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ‘printf’ 01:29:54 # 01:30:01 Hello World! 01:30:02 # 01:30:17 rm -rf /* 01:30:23 don't type that 01:30:24 lol 01:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:30:44 Permission denied 01:30:50 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:30:53 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:31:04 # 01:31:13 pwd 01:31:21 /home/ihope 01:31:34 cd .. 01:31:35 ls 01:31:45 ftran apollo firenze ihope kaelis kyevan maxite mbiswas muffin sine sophie syrra vamp wat 01:31:49 Oops. 01:31:54 aftran apollo firenze ihope kaelis kyevan maxite mbiswas muffin sine sophie syrra vamp wat 01:31:58 !unlambda ```.a.b`e`.c.d.e 01:32:01 ac 01:32:13 # 01:32:43 !help languages 01:32:44 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 01:32:55 su vamp 01:33:00 ls ~ 01:33:05 Password: 01:33:12 01:33:25 su: Authentication failure 01:33:44 echo $SHELL 01:33:51 `run echo 'There is real UNIX on here, stop doing stupid fake UNIX.' 01:33:52 There is real UNIX on here, stop doing stupid fake UNIX. 01:33:53 /bin/bash 01:34:08 Gregor: which unlambda implementation is EgoBot running? 01:34:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:34:15 Gregor: I'm not doing fake UNIX, I'm typing Guest31015's commands into a real command line. 01:34:20 After fully understanding them, of course. 01:34:21 oerjan: http://codu.org/projects/egobot/ :P 01:34:23 oh really 01:34:27 I was just pretending 01:34:29 lol 01:34:35 I had guessed! 01:34:39 `run echo $SHELL 01:34:41 /bin/sh 01:35:00 Gregor: so, is there some sample implementation of an ordinary Unix environment using Plash? 01:35:18 I.e. one that uses Plash to replicate what's already there. 01:35:37 uorygl: ... why would you replicate a system, when the normal system is already there? 01:36:26 uname 01:36:45 oerjan: USED_VERSION says http://web.inf.tu-dresden.de/~bf3/unlambda/ 20060112 01:36:55 uname 01:39:15 Gregor: as an example of how to use Plash. 01:39:30 Gregor: huh i hadn't seen that implementation before 01:39:41 oerjan: Do you have a recommendation? 01:39:46 uorygl: I have no idea what you mean. 01:40:04 Gregor: not at all, in fact it lacks the bug from the original C interpreter which i was testing :D 01:40:20 C interpreter? 01:40:29 that sounds difficult 01:40:32 Guest31015: unlambda interpreter in C 01:40:36 ohh 01:40:38 !c printf("Hello, Guest31015!") 01:40:44 Hello, Guest31015! 01:41:01 !c printf("Hello Gregor!"); 01:41:03 Hello Gregor! 01:41:07 woah 01:41:21 what else does that interpret 01:41:32 That is not a C interpreter, it's just a frontend to gcc :P 01:41:33 !languages 01:41:40 Hm, or is it ... 01:41:41 !help languages 01:41:41 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 01:42:19 !sh pwd 01:42:20 /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds 01:42:29 !sh ls / 01:42:31 bin 01:42:55 HackEgo is a much-more-interesting implementation of the sh command, since it has a persistent filesystem. 01:43:26 gee that there bot is real neat 01:43:44 Gee willikers, it is, innit? 01:44:00 !c fprintf(stderr, "Does it print errors?"); 01:44:02 Does it print errors? 01:44:06 Yes it does 01:45:02 that thar robot must be real shiny 01:45:08 and have beeping lights 01:45:28 Shhhh ... it is unaware that it's physically manifest, and we want to keep it that way. 01:45:35 oh 01:45:55 is hackego on this chan? 01:45:58 Why would a light beep? 01:46:12 `run echo 'Idonno, am I?' 01:46:14 Idonno, am I? 01:46:20 1c printf("Hello, the name is HackEgo.\n"); 01:46:20 Erm. 01:46:20 to show if it got dem internets and megabits and what now? 01:46:21 `c printf("Hello, the name is HackEgo.\n"); 01:46:23 No output. 01:46:29 pikhq: Fail :P 01:46:31 `c ls 01:46:32 No output. 01:46:38 `sh ls 01:46:39 Oh, no c command on HackEgo? Should fix that when I'm not-lazy. 01:46:40 No output. 01:46:50 `sh ls 01:46:52 No output. 01:46:54 huh 01:47:00 `sh help commands 01:47:02 No output. 01:47:07 Ignore pikhq's fekked-up command. 01:47:12 I gave the proper command. 01:47:28 `help 01:47:29 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:47:42 `run ls 01:47:43 bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.21222 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1 01:47:48 `run pwd 01:47:49 /tmp/hackenv.21263 01:48:09 `run tty 01:48:12 not a tty 01:48:14 You can also see the remainder of various failed hacking attempts in there :P 01:48:25 `cat test.sh 01:48:27 echo POOP! && sh ./test.sh 01:48:44 `cat hack_gregor 01:48:46 echo Gregor hacked. 01:48:53 What, that wunderbar_emporeum isn't so wunderbar? :-> 01:48:56 ./hack_gregor 01:49:02 Ilari: Doesn't work in Plash. 01:49:09 `./hack_gregor 01:49:11 No output. 01:49:17 `run ./hack_gregor 01:49:19 No output. 01:49:32 Guest31015: Did I mention "FAILED" 01:49:51 Gregor: What about it doesn't work? The port-opening? 01:49:58 `run echo $HELL 01:50:00 No output. 01:50:01 pikhq: I refuse to say :P 01:50:04 `run echo $SHELl 01:50:06 No output. 01:50:08 DAMMIT 01:50:13 `run echo $SHELL 01:50:15 /bin/sh 01:50:16 Hah. 01:50:58 `run printf "#!/bin/sh \n echo Guest Hacked " 01:51:00 #!/bin/sh \ echo Guest Hacked 01:51:04 `sh hack_gregor 01:51:05 Gregor hacked. 01:51:19 `run printf "#!/bin/sh \n echo Guest Hacked " > Guest_hacked 01:51:21 No output. 01:51:28 Being able to run a trivial shell script is kind of irrelevant :P 01:51:28 `run chmod 777 Guest_hacked 01:51:30 No output. 01:51:41 `run ./Guest_hacked 01:51:43 Guest Hacked 01:51:46 YAY 01:53:19 No hacking done. Just designed behavior. :) 01:53:50 yeah but running a shell script is the first step :P 01:53:55 g2gbye 01:53:59 be back later 01:54:06 keep those two lovely bots up 01:54:14 they are a charm 01:54:14 Not in a crazy sandbox. ;) 01:54:21 -!- Guest31015 has left (?). 02:00:03 Ah yes, we'll see you again, some anonymous Comcast person. 02:05:09 `run rm Guest_hacked 02:05:11 No output. 02:06:10 Uh, I forget. Is HackEgo one of those 'please treat it nicely' bots, or one of those 'please try to break it' bots? 02:06:25 coppro: It's one of those "good luck breaking it" bots. 02:06:32 fun 02:06:47 Worst case scenario, Gregor has to revert to a previous revision. 02:06:52 Gregor only makes those kinds of bots these days 02:06:55 (it's version controlled) 02:08:33 -!- songhead95 has joined. 02:08:38 Hello 02:08:46 I was just guest17* 02:08:58 `run ls 02:08:59 bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.22425 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1 02:09:00 no way! 02:09:12 way! 02:09:25 _completely_ different number 02:09:33 huh? 02:09:47 (31015) 02:10:06 I was the guest who pretended to be unix, than used unix, then played with the bots, then complimented the bots 02:11:00 you don't need to tell us. we have means to get information... 02:11:04 * oerjan cackles evilly 02:11:17 aka join messages. 02:11:59 `run echo $HOME 02:12:00 /home/hackbot 02:12:12 `run echo $HOME 02:12:14 /home/hackbot 02:12:24 `run ls /home 02:12:26 hackbot 02:12:33 `run ls /home 02:12:35 hackbot 02:12:39 `run ls / 02:12:40 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr 02:13:04 no root? 02:13:04 You can do that in private messages, btw. 02:13:10 oh 02:13:11 yeah 02:14:19 I am an extreme irc noob 02:14:30 We've gathered that. 02:14:42 :( 02:15:24 Apparently "we've gathered that" is an insult 02:15:40 no I am just sad at my own noobishness 02:15:43 don't worry, we don't mind noobs 02:16:19 several of us may have been noobs at one time or another 02:17:10 I've been a noob since I started 02:17:22 Others, such as myself, are the result of a stable time loop, and as a result began our existence with full knowledge of IRC attained from the future. 02:17:42 ...do you die? 02:18:04 No, I travel back in time, which also reverses the aging process, and asserts my existence in the year 2002. 02:19:33 I want to be like you, if I master IRC and time travel, then travel back in time before I started IRC to teach myself IRC and time travel, will I begin the loop? 02:19:54 A time loop cannot be begun, it either exists or it does not. The past is already in the past, it cannot be changed. 02:20:30 aww man 02:21:21 Sorry! I didn't invent physics! 02:27:12 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:36:37 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 02:39:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:56:18 -!- songhead95 has quit (Quit: songhead95). 02:56:20 -!- songhead95 has joined. 02:56:35 -!- songhead95 has quit (Client Quit). 03:10:45 So, I think I'd like to pretend to be UNIX again. 03:11:04 uname -a 03:11:23 Gregor: well, Plash takes away the filesystem and replaces it with a fake filesystem, right? I want to see a fake Plash filesystem that acts just like a real one. 03:11:45 Linux thay 2.6.30-2-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Dec 7 05:21:45 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 03:11:45 $ 03:12:20 uorygl: Plash doesn't "take away" the filesystem, it stands between the program and the real filesystem. Usually real parts of the filesystem are mapped directly into Plash. 03:12:54 Okay then, one that gives no access to the real filesystem and instead gives access to a fake one that acts like a real one. 03:13:36 Or I could just admit that I'm suffering from Demanding Something That Isn't What I Really Want Syndrome. 03:15:26 Maybe I should examine how HackBot is implemented. 03:15:51 And so, that thing I wanted to do to Hackiki, I might do to HackBot instead. :P 03:16:01 About how big is HackBot? Does it share any code with Hackiki? 03:25:12 HackBot shares no code with Hackiki. 03:25:25 It's smaller than Hackiki, IIRC. 03:25:27 One sec. 03:26:12 It's ~500 lines of C and shell. 03:26:16 The C is purely IRC interaction. 03:26:39 Ohnowait, there's also C to throttle guest programs. 03:26:45 But it's unnecessary. 03:27:37 Basically, it's multibot (a very simple IRC bot) with some shell scripts that bind that to plash. 03:27:45 The shell scripts are about 175 lines. 03:27:59 Multibot is about 200 lines. 03:28:25 So does HackBot do anything with repositories? 03:29:10 Yeah, basic same idea has Hackiki, but all in shell. 03:31:26 So there's a bit of functionality overlap but no code overlap. 03:31:27 Wow, worst wording ever. 03:31:30 Yes. 03:31:38 Yeah, basically same idea as Hackiki, but all in shell. 03:32:33 I guess I should look at one or the other. 03:32:52 Hackiki is more recent. 03:34:13 uorygl: rm -rf / 03:34:38 pikhq: Permission denied 03:35:46 it's not fair! 03:36:52 It's very fair. 03:37:28 but it discriminates against evil people! 03:41:38 No it doesn't. 03:41:44 Evil people have the same rights as non-evil people. 03:41:55 Just like how gay people have the same rights as straight people. 03:42:12 but it prevents evil actions! 03:42:22 But it doesn't prevent evil people! 03:42:30 So, no discrimination. 03:42:43 that would be like saying that gay people have the same right as anyone to have sex, as long as it is with the opposite sex 03:42:49 Precisely! 03:43:06 and that would _clearly_ be discrimination. 03:43:52 If we said gay people are only allowed to have gay sex and straight people are only allowed to have straight sex, THAT would be discrimination. 03:44:22 well i'm not asking for evil people to only be able to do evil actions here, am i? 03:44:33 after all that would make deception hard 03:44:39 Well, no. 03:45:14 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 03:57:52 * uorygl ponders what he wants in this awesome nomic thing. 03:58:04 Agora 03:58:12 the answer is always Agora 03:58:21 Agora isn't even a codenomic! 03:59:08 -!- deschutron has joined. 03:59:10 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:59:51 -!- coppro has joined. 04:14:45 -!- coppro has changed nick to SeanHunt. 04:14:55 -!- SeanHunt has changed nick to coppro. 04:58:35 -!- charlls has joined. 05:10:03 `run echo "My name is overloaded; I'll have to kick someone off" | sha256sum 05:10:04 2912b1f1f1301a0d4e14416e07d7a56bee0522e7b423cde610909f5191b9bd3e - 05:10:16 `run echo -n "My name is overloaded; I'll have to kick someone off" | sha256sum 05:10:17 caaf3e65344624e7659aaf228f62f93faae680f71adc868a6f8da880388b12f9 - 05:17:43 -!- ssu has joined. 05:38:05 -!- deschutron has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:38:57 -!- ssu has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 05:40:00 -!- deschutron has joined. 05:59:31 ffff 05:59:55 how the fuck is this guy a schoolteacher 06:07:13 coppro: ? 06:07:31 some guy on an open-source project I also work on 06:07:35 I refuse to say we work together 06:07:36 because we don 06:07:38 Mmm. 06:07:38 *don't 06:09:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: So does he give you too much homework?). 06:42:24 -!- augur has joined. 07:22:16 -!- adu has joined. 07:37:03 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:43:44 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:46:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:19 -!- tombom has joined. 07:59:21 -!- tombom has quit (Changing host). 07:59:21 -!- tombom has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:08:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:27:02 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:27:45 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 08:49:29 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:59:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:23:06 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 10:08:54 -!- lereah_ has joined. 10:22:56 * oklopol tries out coppro's patented conversational tactics 10:23:02 lol, i can't believe this dude! 10:23:14 hey, that's my intellectual property there 10:23:15 i can't believe i just witnessed that... 10:23:45 sorry 10:31:22 :P 10:31:48 I just enjoy venting my frustrations, excitements, and other things into this channel 10:33:15 also, apparently, going to be 4 hours before I wake up :/ 10:33:41 -!- tehz has joined. 10:34:18 not much going on here? 10:35:03 correct 10:35:11 thought so. 10:35:23 cya 10:35:25 -!- tehz has quit (Client Quit). 10:41:30 :D 10:42:04 venting frustrations is okay, i just like BULLYING PEOPLE. 10:42:18 gotta go hear this lecture thing now 10:58:27 -!- TehZ has joined. 10:58:33 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 10:58:53 -!- TehZ has joined. 10:59:07 If you are bored, you could take a look at lolcode 10:59:11 its funny 11:00:41 Im making a programming language with .:,;'"* as its only characters 11:00:57 a Object Oriented programming language 11:01:34 either 1: Much chatlag or 2: nobody's on 11:01:51 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:10:28 -!- ztirf4 has joined. 11:13:20 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:13:44 So, which languages have u ppl made? 11:13:55 Lazy Bird 11:14:03 And the Love Machine 9000 11:14:08 (also called NTCM) 11:14:16 Checking them out 11:14:18 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:14:41 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:14:51 Cant connect to the wiki right now 11:15:15 Well, i made Reversible-2D 11:15:25 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:15:42 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:15:50 right now, my browser is stupid 11:16:34 Use mIRC 11:16:37 Or something 11:16:53 I didnt see that one in google chrome plugin page 11:17:42 It is not a plugin 11:17:53 Isnt it? Google searching 11:17:55 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:18:31 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:18:35 Found it, installing 11:18:36 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:22:06 -!- magari has joined. 11:22:10 * magari enters 11:23:03 Hello 11:23:25 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:23:37 Couldnt get mirc to work 11:23:48 any ideas for a programming language? 11:24:09 Yeah 11:24:18 k, what? 11:24:44 chatlag? 11:24:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp 11:25:03 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:25:11 Never implemented it :3 11:25:16 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:25:19 Checking it out 11:25:21 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 11:26:42 -!- TehZ has joined. 11:26:44 uhmm 11:27:01 i dont understand that language.... 11:28:08 It's just a bunch of functional languages 11:28:08 It is nearly as unreadable as my unfinished (and unpublished) language; DotsOO 11:28:41 Uhm, do you live in europe or usa? 11:28:49 Europe. 11:28:52 cauz this chatlag is irritating 11:28:58 im in europe too 11:29:34 Either the server is slow, the server is in USA, or both. 11:30:19 Do you feel like there is chatlag too? 11:30:46 No. 11:30:55 Really? 11:31:13 How do you know there's chatlag? 11:31:26 it takes a long time to get an answer 11:31:30 really long 11:31:42 It may be that I don't anszer right away 11:31:50 k 11:32:06 lets test it: I write Test, and you answer with Test, k? 11:32:31 Test 11:32:40 irc clients have ping functions for a reason 11:32:55 im a little new to IRC 11:33:41 you ping by doing what? 11:34:01 depends on the client 11:34:02 Right click 11:34:13 Look at the menu 11:34:21 04:57 [ctcp!TehZ] PING 1268737056 202884 11:34:21 04:57 CTCP PING reply from TehZ: 0.514 seconds 11:34:27 /ping user 11:34:35 thats really quick 11:34:38 k 11:34:39 and I'm in the US 11:34:45 well 11:34:47 my client is 11:34:54 my terminal is in afghanistan 11:35:12 omg 11:35:42 Europe -> afghanistan -> Usa -> afghanistan -> Europe? 11:37:15 maybe i should continue working on DotsOO 11:37:44 uh... 11:37:51 what? 11:37:52 depends on the freenode server your connected to 11:38:00 maybe 11:38:09 cya 11:38:09 it does 11:38:13 -!- TehZ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:40:54 -!- magari has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:42:18 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:44:45 -!- comex has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:45:00 -!- puzzlet has quit (Changing host). 11:45:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:48:57 -!- ztirf4 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 12:35:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:59:02 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:03:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 14:32:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:35:37 -!- charlls has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:46:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:52:35 -!- deschutron has left (?). 15:21:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:32:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:46:48 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.). 15:58:45 fizzie, another panorama soon, for this one I balanced the mobile phone on an armrest and rotated it around that point, result is that it is a fairly "boring" 180° panorama of a corridor. 16:00:07 * AnMaster is resuming the laptop with the photos and hugin project on from sleep atm 16:00:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:21:08 -!- charlls has joined. 16:21:49 -!- comex has joined. 16:31:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:16:35 Hang it by a thread from the ceiling! 17:32:23 uorygl, what? the phone? 17:32:28 Yes. 17:32:37 uorygl, the images are low quality anyway 17:33:14 anyway, doing photometric optimisation atm 17:33:17 that might take a while 17:42:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:57:42 -!- lereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:33 quick! 17:59:37 someone who knows about compsci! 17:59:41 i need your assisstance! 18:01:20 -!- fax has joined. 18:02:04 augur: issue? 18:02:20 i need test graphs that have known maximum cliques 18:02:30 so i can test a maximum clique algorithm 18:02:39 hmm, that's not the area of compsci that I work in, unfortunately 18:02:46 does the web not help? 18:02:57 are they hard to generate? 18:02:58 no :( 18:03:10 fax: finding the max clique of a graph is NP complete 18:03:22 so? :/ 18:03:35 so its hard! 18:03:38 hmm, if a problem is NP, its reverse is normally P 18:03:42 by definition 18:03:44 * fax doesn't see how you got that 18:03:50 but it rather depends on what "reverse" means 18:03:51 NP complete is hard! 18:04:07 besides, even exponential algorithms can run quickly on small enough data sets 18:04:38 true, but i need it to run on large graphs :) 18:05:11 with upwards of 5000 words 18:05:18 maybe even 10000! or 100000! 18:05:26 not factorial, mind you. 18:05:40 though nurikabe is NP and generating puzzles for that is hard 18:05:47 and making sokoban puzzles is an art 18:05:58 i'd make _your_ sokoban puzzle 18:06:01 if you know what i mean 18:06:02 ;o ;o ;o 18:06:48 fax: generating random Sokoban puzzles is something I'm interested in myself 18:06:49 i need test graphs tho 18:07:05 so satisfy to myself that i havent just proven that P = NP 18:07:05 :P 18:07:10 not necessarily particularly good ones, but they can't be trivial 18:07:20 augur: do you have a P-time algo, or think you do? 18:07:34 it's probably easier to poke holes in the algo by looking at it than by trying to create test graphs 18:07:49 its P on complete graphs up to 300 nodes, or so it looks 18:07:59 i _dont_ know if its P on non-complete graphs. 18:08:04 maximum clique for complete graphs is easy 18:08:11 true ;) 18:08:15 ais523, I make a game called 'multiban', which is sokoban with n-players (over the internet) 18:08:19 its especially easy if you know its a complete graph! 18:08:25 but i dont assume that it is. 18:08:32 the question is what its runtime is on non-complete graphs 18:08:55 it's great fun because the game really is about collective thought -- but you run out of levels quickly :( 18:09:01 and since theres a LOT of graphs with n nodes, this is not an easy thing for me to check 18:09:17 infact, theres like 18:09:26 what 2^(n^2) graphs with n nodes? 18:09:44 adjacency matrix is n^2, and each of the cells can be filled or not, so 2^(n^2) 18:10:14 or 2^(0.5 n^2) if you require that the graph is undirected 18:10:53 anyway, here's a test case from Wikipedia: abcdaedfecfgbfega 18:11:03 (I take it you're familiar with Eodermdrome graph notation?) 18:11:13 no 18:11:25 :O 18:11:33 but this is #esoteric! 18:11:38 OH MY GOD THIS IS AWESOME 18:11:41 http://esolangs.org/wiki/eodermdrome 18:11:42 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome 18:11:44 hehee 18:11:45 yes im there now :P 18:11:58 -!- tombom has joined. 18:11:58 you're so narcisistic, ais523 :P 18:12:15 I'm not entirely sure if I translated it properly from the Wikipedia article, but it's so much easier to send over IRC than trying to send a graph normally 18:12:26 can you give this graph to me in non-eodermdrome notation? :P 18:12:36 * fax how to pronounce Eodermdrome 18:12:59 or is it just that adjacency in the string = adjacency in the graph? 18:13:05 * ais523 pronounces it "E. O. derm drome" 18:13:07 augur: that's it 18:13:09 ok 18:13:22 I've only ever seen the word written, though 18:13:49 it was originally coined in a wordplay book, to try to create a minimal-length word that lead to a nonplanar graph 18:18:01 ais523: i presume this graph is not directed, yes? 18:18:08 yep, undirected 18:18:16 ok 18:20:28 btw, which graph is this that you found? like, where is it on the wiki page 18:20:43 top-right corner 18:20:51 on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Clique_problem 18:20:57 oh ok, the bluedots one 18:21:08 wheres it say this is known to be hard? 18:21:19 the graph? or the problem? 18:21:24 the graph 18:21:57 it isn't known to be hard; it's just known to have a maximum clique of 4 18:22:08 and that's what you asked for 18:22:15 graphs with known maximum cliques 18:22:19 oh. no i need lots of test cases tho :p 18:22:57 generate them at random? by definition, you can test if an answer to an NP-complete problem is correct in P-time 18:23:00 not just _one_ but lots of them, with lots nodes, so i can test the algorithm 18:23:27 i dont know how to generate these things at random. 18:23:36 augur, why don't you just prove the algorithm correct? 18:23:38 graphs? that's trivial 18:23:41 i dont know how to, fax! 18:23:52 ais523: well, i could generate _graphs_ at random 18:24:03 did you just implement a random algorithm them realize it solves an NP problem in P? :))) 18:24:05 but i need to make sure that the algorithm isnt just hitting easy graphs 18:24:29 fizzie, there are a few seems, but way less than in the one yesterday. Some image data at the edges is cut, and a few tiny (5x10 pixels or so) holes along some edges was filled in in gimp) http://omploader.org/vM3VvNA 18:24:31 no, i implemented the algorithm intended to solve one problem, and then a prof at the school pointed out that it seems to be solving the maximum clique problem 18:24:54 so its not a _random_ algorithm 18:24:54 :p 18:25:25 hmm 18:25:26 augur: why don't you just show us the algorithm, and we can find flaws in it / show it isn't P-time? 18:25:46 but then you'll steal my discovery! D: 18:25:48 if it really did solve the maximum clique problem in P-time, your prof would have claimed the money for himself already 18:25:51 fizzie, irritatingly enblend placed the seam over that door so a blurry image of it was included. There is another sharper image of it.. 18:25:59 i didnt show him the algorithm 18:26:03 just the description of the original problem 18:26:10 i havent mentioned that i think its PTIME. 18:26:14 im not _that_ stupid 18:26:21 "lol i proved P = NP 8D" 18:26:23 * fax decided that 18:27:03 ill show you guys the algo when i get back. i have to go pick up some cookies. 18:27:11 be back in an hour or two 18:27:12 <3 18:27:25 strange, getting to the cookie jar taking that long 18:27:42 no, these cookies were delivered 18:27:44 augur is in no rush 18:27:56 huh 18:27:57 and are sitting in a UPS depot in Laurel, MD 18:28:02 I hate UPS 18:28:09 bbl 18:28:12 http://www.cherylandco.com/ << this kind. gooood cookies. 18:28:13 wow augur, it must be hard to get cookies where you are 18:28:24 yeah 18:28:25 its... 18:28:25 They weren't delivered very well. 18:28:26 P HARD 18:28:28 8D 18:28:37 lol 18:28:45 PSPACE-hard. 18:28:58 shut your face you ruined my joke 18:29:05 PSPACE-complete is the bounded equivalent of TC, isn't it? 18:29:19 cookie jar hard? 18:29:21 Something like that. 18:29:24 bbl really 18:29:38 There was a paper titled "Sokoban is PSPACE-complete" that essentially showed that you can make a Sokoban computer. 18:29:58 Yay, my computer is PSPACE-complete. :P 18:30:15 uorygl: strangely, someone linked me to that a few days ago 18:31:26 Speaking of linking to stuff: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/ 18:31:52 Jaap 18:31:59 Jaap's Puzzle Page, the most important page ever. 18:32:56 uorygl: because? 18:33:23 Well, it isn't really. 18:34:14 augur: anyway, write a P-time algorithm for checking if an alleged clique is in fact maximal 18:34:54 (that's easy: check all subsets of the graph that are one element larger than the alleged clique to see if they're cliqued; that's P-time with a rather horrible exponent) 18:35:30 7"the most important page ever" lol 18:38:46 hmm, what complexity class is finding a maximal cycle in a graph? 18:38:55 Little did fax know that eir subconscious had begun counting down to eir death. Eir next typo will involve the number 6. 18:41:33 * fax terabytes oowriggle 18:46:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:57 -!- hiato has joined. 19:08:44 Hey all, got a new esolang, and I'm struggling to write a quine in it. Does a language have to be TC to have quines? 19:09:05 HQ9+ has quines and isn't TC 19:09:17 But that is a language feature. Ok, non-trivial quines 19:09:41 Still no. 19:09:42 Probably not, but I can't prove it. 19:09:57 hiato new esao lang? 19:09:57 Take any language with a quine. Figure out how much memory it uses. Restrict it to that much memory. 19:10:03 Ok, cool, then I guess it's programmer error here :P 19:10:16 uorygl: Right, but that requires a quine to reduce the memory 19:10:23 fax: yep, I'll upload the spec now :) 19:10:24 Well, that doesn't imply that your language has quines 19:10:37 No, but I seem to recall a proof that a TC language with output capabilities sufficient to output itself must have a quine. 19:10:56 it's pretty much one quine that you can rewrite into whatever language 19:11:12 hiato: well, the language with the memory restricted, which is not TC, still has a quine. 19:11:15 there was something about fix point thereom, but I can't remember what it meant or why it was important 19:11:30 So, a non-TC language with a non-trivial quine. 19:11:49 uorygl: well, memory isn't really the issue here, it's string stuff and delimeters, actually, only delimeters 19:11:56 * uorygl shrugs. 19:12:00 C has quines, and C is not TC. 19:12:10 Heh, lovely C. 19:12:31 pikhq: right, but it can easily operate on strings, and it has the augmented print function %c, %i etc 19:12:42 C is not TC? 19:12:56 fax: Mandated finite memory. 19:13:08 * hiato thinks it's probably best to keep quite about this now, sign, C again 19:13:28 fax: there was that "discussion" under bit-bit-jump 19:13:37 iirc 19:15:34 fax: Pointers must be a multiple-of-char size. A char must have a bound, and that bound must be storable in a char. Thus, C has finite memory. QED. 19:18:25 http://dpaste.com/172601/ 19:18:30 http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/morph.htm 19:18:48 sorry, the explanation is terrible, but the source should clear it up 19:21:39 the problem is that # (as a string, so as to avoid execution) needs to be escaped viz., :# Then, : needs to be escaped and it's a horrible route from there on in 19:24:02 unless I'm going about it in the wrong manner, and perhaps the stack should hold individual tokens instead of strings 19:24:06 -!- TehZ has joined. 19:24:28 No chat? :( 19:24:50 何? 19:24:51 heyo 19:25:03 それが本当にチャネルだ! 19:25:07 "何?"?????? 19:25:16 Sorry. 19:25:21 np 19:25:27 Switching from Japanese manga to English chatroom = possible confusion. 19:25:28 :P 19:25:41 uorygl uragirl? 19:25:57 I have to find some puzzles for you 19:25:58 ok who wants to see my little algo now? 19:26:16 What, people manage to make that mistake even with this spelling of my name? :P 19:26:45 la uorygl nakni 19:27:00 -!- TehZ has quit (Client Quit). 19:27:01 AnMaster: That's a very long-looking corridor. 19:28:23 fizzie, it is very long 19:29:08 * hiato cannot believe someone would have the time to do this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula 19:29:30 fizzie, to the right it continues for another, wider, "section" like the one I took the photo in. 19:29:38 err 19:29:40 not wider, longer 19:29:42 I meant 19:31:25 well, it seems that Quine -> TC may not hold, but TC -> quine does : "By the fixed point theorems in logic, such a program exists in any Turing-complete language in which printing..." 19:31:43 * hiato cannot believe someone would have the time to do this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula <--- .... wow... 19:32:10 AnMaster: Yep, I'm still picking my jaw up. I mean, I knew you could do relations, but encoding bitmaps? 19:32:27 hiato, well, plotting relations is common. 19:32:33 uorygl, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONYN8yAEfpA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzgnpf2URhQ http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Haberdasher-anm-01.gif 19:32:34 well, not as common as functions 19:32:35 bbl 19:35:48 I'll use the fact that I'm unimpressed by Tupper's self-referential formula as a status symbol. :P 19:36:09 how can you not be impressed by that? Do you know how to make it? 19:36:26 More or less. 19:36:58 i guess it's basically a less elegant and 2D version of godels beta function... 19:38:42 oh! "The formula was first published in his 2001 SIGGRAPH paper that discusses methods related to the GrafEq formula-graphing program he developed." 19:38:48 I learned taylor series from this program 19:41:41 uorygl did you see the links I gave you 19:45:49 :[ 19:47:15 guys 19:47:29 should i use haskellish notation for my algorithm, even tho its written impertively? 19:55:14 augur, I'm not sure that makes terribly that much sense to me 19:55:29 :p 19:55:32 * hiato ok, that is how not to write a sentence 19:55:40 (mine that is) 19:56:28 and augur, what is exactly is your algorithm? 19:57:06 a relativized maximal clique algo 19:57:36 right. sure it is. does it make coffee? otheriwse I would say your deltas are off a tad 19:58:30 Relativized, you say? 20:00:28 yes 20:00:31 relativized. 20:00:48 that is, the largest clique that some node is in 20:00:58 not the largest clique in the graph but just the largest clique a given node is in 20:01:11 Couldn't you find that by dropping the node and all the nodes it's not connected to? 20:03:45 uorygl?!??!?!?!? 20:04:12 geez I went and looked it up in my book for you and you're just ignoring me 20:06:26 wanker 20:08:44 uorygl fuck you 20:08:55 uorygl: no, because that doesnt mean that they form a clique 20:10:36 uorygl: http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/node-relative%20maximal%20clique.pdf 20:10:37 -!- jcp has joined. 20:12:29 don't youknow it's rude to ignore people 20:13:19 i need to go buy some spraypaint. bbiaf guys <3 20:13:29 I mean by doing that and then finding the maximal clique of the result. 20:13:37 ey? 20:13:58 oh, you mean taking the subgraph of G that contains the node and all its neighbors 20:14:11 (and thus all the edges that only include those neighbors) 20:14:28 and then finding the maximum clique in that? 20:14:35 The subgraph that contains the node's neighbors only, not the node itself. 20:14:43 that still doesnt guarantee it, because the biggest clique in that might not include the node itself 20:14:58 * fax wonders how uorygl leaned to be such a bastard 20:15:05 no but it must, right 20:15:10 sure then i guess that would work 20:15:18 if you included the node, crucially 20:15:20 Surely any clique in that can be extended to include the node itself. 20:15:28 right 20:15:34 anyway, check out the algo while im off doing stuff 20:15:36 see ya <3 20:20:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:20:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:24:20 -!- comex has changed nick to comex_. 20:24:21 -!- comex_ has changed nick to comex. 20:24:33 -!- comex has changed nick to comex_. 20:24:35 -!- comex_ has changed nick to comex. 20:26:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:32:16 fizzie, any such corridors at your university btw? 20:32:32 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:33:42 I guess the main building corridors look a bit like that, though not quite that.. how should I put it, open. 20:34:32 fizzie, I think the eqvirectangular (?) projection is partly to blame for that 20:35:10 equirectangular that is 20:35:17 (just checked the spelling) 20:35:42 fizzie, not that cylindrical projection looks much better, and rectilinear is just not feasible with that fov 20:38:37 fizzie, according to hugin I have ~185° fov 20:39:24 fizzie, actually more (214), but not all was usable 20:41:29 (not usable, as in photo ends up looking not very nice due to corridor not being in "center") 20:41:49 (oh and all there was to see was the power cable to my laptop lying over a table basically 20:41:53 ) 20:42:32 some day I should try to take a 360° panorama 20:42:43 also I wonder if that really is a degree sign, or if it is a ^0... 20:43:30 hm... °⁰ well degree sign I guess 20:44:09 hey, am I holding a monologue or something? 20:44:11 * AnMaster prods fizzie 20:44:38 I'm sort of a bit away here. 20:44:55 I'd photograph places at the university, but I don't want to do it when there are people there. 20:45:03 true 20:45:13 fizzie, btw fish eye looks funny 20:45:18 tried that projection? 20:45:38 stereographic actually seems to kind of work for this... 20:57:47 -!- augur has joined. 21:01:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:01:50 a 21:01:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 21:10:13 uorygl: hey 21:10:36 Ahoy. 21:10:53 sup 21:11:04 Not much. 21:11:06 uorygl is a twerp 21:11:13 true 21:11:23 he can go stick it up himself 21:11:32 hot 21:13:33 * uorygl disassembles a pen and screws a TRS size adapter onto one of the parts. 21:14:31 I imagine that in my younger days, I would have expected to be able to do that, plug it into an amplifier, and sing into the tip of the pen, and hear my voice coming through the amplifier. 21:14:53 uorygl I hope yu get electrocuted 21:29:19 -!- Ilari_ has joined. 21:30:54 -!- Ilari has quit (Quit: "Address/window change"). 21:30:54 -!- Ilari_ has changed nick to Ilari. 21:47:35 well uorygl? is my algorithm awesome or not? 8D 21:51:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:59:16 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: underflow). 22:14:56 Has nothing really happened for 25 minutes? 22:15:36 butt 22:15:46 What? 22:15:49 butt 22:20:32 -!- johsam1 has joined. 22:20:59 -!- johsam1 has left (?). 22:28:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]). 22:32:02 * uorygl disassembles a pen and screws a TRS size adapter onto one of the parts. <-- TRS? 22:32:39 uorygl I hope yu get electrocuted <-- why? 22:35:03 because he ignored me 22:35:29 he linked to some puzzles site so I tried to show him my favorite puzzles but he just completely ignored me, why would someone do that? It's so horrible 22:43:22 huh 22:43:27 fax, maybe he missed it? 22:51:04 -!- Ilari has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 22:51:12 -!- Ilari has joined. 22:57:04 AnMaster: tip-ring-sleeve, consumer audio connectors. 22:57:53 -!- comex has left (?). 23:05:03 uorygl, ? 23:05:04 uorygl: ouch. im doing some tests on random graphs, and the time complexity seems to be exponential :( 23:05:12 its _fast_ but its exponential 23:05:14 ah 23:06:13 -!- werdan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 619 seconds). 23:07:21 :( 23:07:27 and i had thought i'd done it! D: 23:08:25 Proven P = NP? 23:08:34 hell yeah bitch 23:13:51 -!- werdan7 has joined. 23:17:44 -!- comex has joined. 23:29:50 augur, I doubt P=NP is the case 23:29:56 ;) 23:29:57 still! 23:30:00 there seems to be nothing that points in that direction 23:30:36 augur, what I find more likely is than P=NP is that P!=NP but that is unprovable. (Of course it could be unprovable if it is unprovable or not...) 23:32:13 -!- fax has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:32:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:33:20 it's provable.. it's just very, very hard to prove. 23:33:26 ...exponentially hard 23:33:29 oh yeah? prove it. 23:33:32 8D 23:34:15 actually, this is interesting, the graphs that seem to be taking the longest to calculate are the ones that are very nearly complete, but those are _easy_ when just run by themselves. so i might be actually hitting computational randomness in the calculation times 23:34:16 -!- coppro has joined. 23:38:15 yeah, that seems to have been what it is; after averaging multiple compute times for each graph, the number of graphs that are extremely long to compute for has dropped 23:40:32 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:52:17 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:53:28 bhatturas <3 23:58:38 damnit, i keep doing this 23:58:47 the algorithm ive been testing? wrong fucking algorithm. 23:58:57 i have two methods on my graph class that solve this problem 23:59:07 both with the same name, except for a version number 23:59:21 e.g. relmaxclique and relmaxclique2 23:59:26 and the first i know to be a shitty algorithm