< 1268956800 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1268956800 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268956800 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-59.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957226 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957246 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1268957248 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957271 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1268957342 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268957584 0 :comex_!comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957653 0 :jix_!~jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957683 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268957684 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268957684 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268957710 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268957756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :"Gwandocu (n): Extremely strong evidence, far beyond a reasonable doubt." | alise sighting counter: A(g_64,g_64) | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1268958261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268958294 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268958305 0 :werdan7_!~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268958357 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1268958422 0 :uorygl_!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268958447 0 :werdan7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268958448 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1268958448 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1268959653 0 :werdan7_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :werdan7 < 1268962345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the only entrant in the category, Cougar Energy Shot for Women White is both the best and the worst energy drink for women of 2009. I tend to lean more toward it being the worst." < 1268962389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the glass is half empty, and that is a _good_ thing in this case. < 1268962975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talk about energy drinks, and my dad suggests trying caffeine pills < 1268963025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a phase < 1268963038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1268963050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid, that is < 1268963072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, lol < 1268963082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pathetic that I needed the joke explained to me :( < 1268963102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha < 1268963326 0 :uorygl_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's actually not a very clear joke. >.> < 1268963340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl_: shh < 1268963404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considered the "explanation" the punchline, actually < 1268963493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1268963519 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268963813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the only entrant in the category, Cougar Energy Shot for Women White is both the best and the worst energy drink for women of 2009. I tend to lean more toward it being the worst." < 1268963817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, wrong paste < 1268963825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What caffeine does is make a person lose water, which in effect makes a person drink plenty of water to reciprocate, thus minimizing the feeling of hunger" < 1268963837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can afford to have my hunger lessened :( < 1268963935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1268963977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dislikes energy drinks, including caffeine, generally < 1268964246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh because you are thin? < 1268964298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so cool, i've been playing my guitar since you said the caffeine and the hunger thing, and i was reading those sentences all that time, then the same second i stop playing i suddenly understand what the sentences mean < 1268964351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1268965192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Caffeine does not work that way. < 1268965333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame http://www.howtodothings.com/health-fitness/how-to-use-caffeine-pills-safely < 1268965397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall. < 1268965490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does it work? < 1268965511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why should I trust an Internet stranger [who admittedly I'm friends with] over an Internet stranger, one way or the other? < 1268965579 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1268965585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caffeine is a mild diuretic, causing people to be likely to urinate more. Most caffeine delivery forms contain sufficient water to compensate for this. < 1268965618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, water does not minimise the feeling of hunger much; goes through the digestive tract too quickly. < 1268965688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1268965702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always add a couple drops of cyanide to my coffee to negate the urinating effect; works splendidly. < 1268965710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caffeine pills wouldn't contain sufficient water.. < 1268965728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt that that's enough of a reason to go with energy drinks though < 1268965735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose caffeine could *possibly* stimulate you enough to cause a mild weight loss affect. Still, it ain't going to do much. < 1268965762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caffeine pills don't have sufficient flavor, IMO. < 1268965796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could always drink a sod.. wait, no. If I take one form of caffeine in a day, I will _not_ take another < 1268965818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a rather absurd amount of caffeine. < 1268965852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until recently, all my caffeine came from soda < 1268966955 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1268970697 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1268971107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1268971151 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268973401 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268973892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1268975731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1268976146 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268976893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1268977705 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268979232 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268979387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enq < 1268979389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1268979392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1268979405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268979408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1268979481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :なるほど。 < 1268979584 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268979586 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we on today? < 1268979601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1268979613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ぜんぜんない。 < 1268979619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today we are under < 1268979631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed I have to use the view-source function in my browser to view thw log because otherwise it treated it as a application/octet-stream and trying to override it didn't work either < 1268979647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1268979654 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are all pure-state density matrix also valid as projector matrix? < 1268979674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are all pure-state density matrix singular? < 1268979691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1268979722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the identity matrix the only unitary projector matrix? < 1268979730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :density matrix is v*v, right? < 1268979750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pure-state density matrix for state |x> is |x> 1, then yes. < 1268979882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a basis where the pure state is the first member, the matrix takes the form upper left = 1, rest 0 < 1268979895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything else can be changed to that with a basis change. < 1268979908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which preserves determinants) < 1268979947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logic was a bit different: I had read previously on this channel what unitary is. A unitary matrix has its conjugate transpose also as its inverse, therefore multiplied by its conjugate transpose must make the identity matrix. A projector matrix squares to itself and is also its own conjugate transpose. Therefore, it would have to be the identity matrix to be both projector and unitary. < 1268979975 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268980038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my logic correct? < 1268980045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p = pp = p^*p = 1. yes. < 1268980070 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1268980120 0 :jcp1!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268980161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried various pure-state density matrices to see if they were projectors and in fact they were, so then I tried to see if that was the general case. < 1268980274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(|x>^*) = |x> = means < 1268980369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(|x>()1 is 1*1 matrix < 1268980416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and if normalized =1 now it makes sense! < 1268980522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1268980523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am glad you understand this stuff, because the people I know personally, don't know this stuff, so I have to explain it to them. < 1268980551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can't answer my question, but you can. < 1268980602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gave me Penrose's book as a present (I think a birthday present), actually. < 1268980702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I did in the D&D game today reminds me of the "Projector For Dematerializing Any Matter For One Minute". < 1268980784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh - is that also something from penrose's book? < 1268980789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1268980793 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268980794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is something unrelated < 1268980802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=33%3Aweird-science-index&id=485%3Aprojector-for-dematerializing-any-matter-for-one-minute&Itemid=24 < 1268980860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah superman comic < 1268980889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most. Cumbersome. Product. Name. Ever. indeed :D < 1268980926 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another question: Do you ever tell anyone to "O, go drink hydroxic acid" < 1268980969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless hydroxic acid is another name for dihydrogen monoxide, i doubt it < 1268980991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydroxic acid is another name for dihydrogen monoxide. < 1268980997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1268981006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you ever say "O, go drink dihydrogen monoxide" to anyone? < 1268981024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1268981027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't usually say that under any name, really < 1268981055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now hydroxic acid seems a misnomer given that it is not actually acidic... < 1268981071 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268981134 0 :jcp1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1268981155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It is both an acid and a base. < 1268981175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Both acid and alkali names exist ... because it is amphoteric (able to react both as an acid or an alkali)." < 1268981179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the term is actually "hydric acid". < 1268981179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1268981191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1268981217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other systematic names ... include hydroxic acid, hydroxylic acid, and hydrogen hydroxide." < 1268981228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. There we go. < 1268981349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spell which reminded me of that Superman comic was Time Hop. And I had manifester level 10 so the duration was 10 rounds (= 1 minute). < 1268981400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxic_acid#Systematic_naming < 1268981466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 'Tis a fun spell. < 1268981472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Power. < 1268981499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, psionic power. Right < 1268981562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But do you ever say "O, go drink dihydrogen monoxide" to anyone? <-- no, but I never say "O, " < 1268981571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, I could do so < 1268981617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O go thou and imbibe of the dihydrogen monoxide < 1268981933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "imbibe"? < 1268981943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have time to check a dictionary atm < 1268981945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define imbibe < 1268981948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* absorb: take in, also metaphorically; "The sponge absorbs water well"; "She drew strength from the minister's words" \ * assimilate: take (gas, light or heat) into a solution \ * drink: take in liquids; "The patient must drink several liters each day"; "The children like to drink soda" < 1268981968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first read sponge as "spoon" < 1268981982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no spoon < 1268982001 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268982068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1268982247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used: the "Time Hop" power twice, the natural capability to create spider webs twice, "Amanuensis" spell once, "Object Reading" once, and "Dimension Door" power once. My brother's character is a human ninja so they used ethereal and see invisible, a lot this time. It is a useful way for him to trick the bartender. < 1268982612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you plaed "Xnazzyball"? < 1268982623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This is not a "spoon" < 1268982865 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268983709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ping < 1268983716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1268983745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a graph for which your algorithm doesn't work < 1268983784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*--* < 1268983793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|\ | < 1268983795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| \| < 1268983798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*--* < 1268983802 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1268983806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which node? :P < 1268983810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upper left < 1268983814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine ;) < 1268983822 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive tested it well enough on that graph < 1268983834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then the pdf you posted was not the right algorithm < 1268983843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was. you're doing it wrong. :) < 1268983903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuitive reading of your pseudocode is that you remove the vertex with the smallest number of (non-u) neighbors. < 1268983919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving only the upper left and lower right for the next step < 1268983945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if that's not what it does, the pseudocode needs some clarifying. < 1268983977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the upper left is of course just implied) < 1268983990 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it again < 1268984002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens is you find the smallest set of neighbors neighbors < 1268984042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um need some notation < 1268984050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u--a < 1268984054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|\ | < 1268984058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| \| < 1268984061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b--c < 1268984064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you go from u to a,b,c < 1268984089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then from a to u,c; from b to u,c; and from c to u,a,b < 1268984106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first pairs = {(a,{c}),(b,{c}),(c,{a,b})} < 1268984115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1268984223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropped = {(a,{c}),(b,{c})}, after = {(c,{a,b})} < 1268984238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the if < 1268984249 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1268984260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first pairs is that yes < 1268984267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :min is 1 < 1268984284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ok < 1268984320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the for loop changes after to {(c,{})} < 1268984364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh.. oh, you're right. let me see if my actual code is like that < 1268984515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha you're right. my algorithm doesn't work! < 1268984529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldve sworn i've run it on graphs like this before tho. < 1268984529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1268984530 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1268984643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that if you start with a or b instead it probably works < 1268984708 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268984808 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. whatever. im not interested in the algorithm in any real sense except to make this pos induction thing work :P < 1268984863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well < 1268984959 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want the POS induction to work fast, so.. :p < 1268984962 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im off to bed < 1268984964 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night dude < 1268984968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1268985599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1268985600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1268985862 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268986724 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1268987659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1268988673 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268989836 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-31-201.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1268993205 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268997184 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269001801 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269001801 0 :MaXo2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269001801 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269002078 0 :MaXo2!~dwili@esp64-1-82-243-172-27.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269002117 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1269005571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if oerjan keeps owning augur like that, sooner or later he'll start believing when he says he's wrong, which is a scary thought. for verying meanings of he. < 1269005583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*believing him < 1269005677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i've just seen random snippets of their interaction, so maybe it's not as one-directional as i think < 1269005751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bidirectional ownership starts to sound like some sort of relationship thing there. < 1269005805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i believe augur prefers just being owned, so i'm not sure it even needs to be bidirectional < 1269006880 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269008370 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1269010670 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269011335 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-9-31.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269011939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Poincaré conjecture has been proved < 1269011949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the ones that had a million-dollar prize attached < 1269011985 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I am watching a talk on this now < 1269011995 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269012053 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1269012334 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT KNOT THOERY WHICH I DONT GET < 1269012516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know everything about knot theory < 1269012519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just ask me < 1269012554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knots can be uniquely factorized into primitive knots and primitive knots commute < 1269012585 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braids have been pretty much completely characterized, but we know very little about knots in general < 1269012586 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so unknotting algorithm can be implemented? < 1269012594 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1269012603 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this is like what I used to think 'polynomials' were univariate < 1269012606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very grey area knowingnesswise < 1269012614 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps when he said this about knots he was really talking about braids < 1269012637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braids are sort of permutations but with strings < 1269012694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can represent them prettily as a braid algebra sort of thing < 1269012711 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knots.. links.. braids I have no idea what one I mean < 1269012717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you construct them with different sorts of primitive braidings which are taking a string over another and so on < 1269012728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaand i guess that's all i know < 1269012736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1269012743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well do you know what they are? i have no idea what links are < 1269012749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they are trivial knot < 1269012749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1269012767 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say a closed simple path in 3D < 1269012770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was probably talking about knots, i haven't heard about braids nearly as much as knots < 1269012777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works < 1269012791 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you detect if they are the unknot (just a circle) with an algorithm? < 1269012804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1269012805 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard the algorithm to do that was one of the hardest possible algorithms to write < 1269012817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying the reals are lists of rationals, it's the equivalence classes that are knots < 1269012828 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then this guy in the talk says someone coded a thing which turns a knot into a normal form on APPLE ][!!! < 1269012834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess you know that < 1269012854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you can, i think that's pretty obvious, but you can't do it efficiently as far as we know < 1269012864 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not obvious < 1269012871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with the simple path representation of course it's not obvious < 1269012882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other ways that make it obvious < 1269012886 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reidmeister moves don't normalize for example < 1269012894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you can just try them all out < 1269012904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite amount of things to do < 1269012932 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea was like, < 1269012935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they normalized, we might have something remotely efficient for it, and might call the problem solved; all that's obvious is that we have this exponential (or more) time algo to do it < 1269012937 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tile space with cubes or whateer < 1269012950 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this guy says there's an apple ][ program which computes a tile from a knot.. and the tile is a normal form < 1269012993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, a fast algorithm to untangle knots would be much more interesting news than pointcare's conjecture < 1269013005 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1269013007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't really give a fuck about that thing < 1269013011 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were not even talking about poincare... < 1269013034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought someone said something about knots in the pointcare talk < 1269013038 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269013075 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you start with this knot with 10 crossings... maybe I have to take it through a knot with 100 crossings to show it equal to this other knot" < 1269013080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i said was totally relevant, "what, there's an algo for knots? then why are you still watching the pointcare talk??" < 1269013112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that's not what i meant, but i'm sure there was a discussion theoretic reason to say it. < 1269013132 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1269013148 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want to find normal forms for knots < 1269013152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't < 1269013163 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not know of such? < 1269013188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were any, in any useful sense, then there would be an efficient algorithm to check if knots are equal. there isn't < 1269013214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well in the rewrite system sense < 1269013466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a normal form is a function from representations of some things into some set, which gives the same return value for things in the same equivalence class, and is an injection in the sense that it gives a different value for two things if they're not in the same equivalence class. we don't have this, but we have it sans the equivalence class respecting injectivity part, we have these functions that give the same value for two represen < 1269013472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that all come through? < 1269013483 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a normal form is < 1269013490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this would be so much clearer if i knew good definitions for these representation spaces < 1269013516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but i'm not sure you understand the connection between normal forms and knot invariants < 1269013522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i just came up with it < 1269013533 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vauge idea he sketched out was that for any knot in 3D you can think about the spaec around it < 1269013544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1269013546 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can make some kind of tile which represents the topology of that space < 1269013550 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these tiles are a normal form < 1269013599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... they all have the same normal form? < 1269013604 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1269013618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean aren't all those topologies just a link < 1269013655 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1985 thurstens graduate student, jeff weeks wrote a program for the little gray machintosh that finds these blueprints.. you draw a knot and a few seconds later, it determines a canonical blueprint for the knot" < 1269013684 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this program easily replaced perko tate and little, it immediately identifies the perko pair as being the same, and classifies all knots up to 10 crossings" < 1269013704 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1269013726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cool < 1269013779 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this seems to be an intro to the topic -- http://pzacad.pitzer.edu/~jhoste/HosteWebPages/downloads/HTW.pdf < 1269013783 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just read this < 1269013871 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it seems to cover knots which are a finite set of closed paths rather than just one path < 1269013914 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION afk < 1269013993 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269014703 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1269015438 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah... the method they use only works for alternating knots < 1269015447 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losing intrest... < 1269015685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1269015730 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to implement it, if it was a normal form for all knots :( < 1269015740 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geometrygames.org/SnapPea/ < 1269015830 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-155-75-229.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269015979 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269018712 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269019876 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1269019949 0 :pineapple!~pineapple@cpc3-aztw11-0-0-cust24.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269021448 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269021849 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1269022444 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1269022758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mozilla is really ridiculously detailed < 1269022764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as if people are starting a religion about it :) < 1269022984 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269023099 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people these days will start a religion following jut about anything < 1269023114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269023117 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also: the number of people who stated their religion as "Jedi" in the 2001 census < 1269023126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm aware of that < 1269023147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lead to hilarious side-effects when someone who was asked to remove their hood in a Jobcentre managed to keep it on by claiming that they were a devout Jedi < 1269023158 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269023201 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going back on topic for a moment (and since there's someone else around now)... < 1269023254 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed in the DoubleFuck article that the 2 pointers operate on seperate arrays... and was wondering if it would be more interesting if they operated on the same array < 1269023297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly, although it's unlikely to make much difference < 1269023308 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1269023323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well, it would < 1269023338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make it work like the original lang simply by putting them in far-off sections of the tape < 1269023356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by having one starting at an odd location, the other at an even location, then moving with << >> rather than < > < 1269023403 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's boring, compared to haveing them start in the same place, and letting thje programmer do something interesting with having them both in the same space, with the chance to affect the same data < 1269023431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1269023441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sharing a tape is probably a more general language < 1269023658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/probably/definitely/, you just gave the proof three lines above... < 1269023807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1269023817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck in talking in weasel words for some reason atm < 1269023824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269023834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much Japanese. < 1269023877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, you use weasel words to be more polite in Japanese) < 1269024222 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269024282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I hope you honorable people will excuse me for leaving now. < 1269024289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can own me all you want ;o < 1269024498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably do his C++ homework at some point < 1269024505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In class, I put it off in favor of $BIG_PROJECT < 1269024595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so cool < 1269026103 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1269026226 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1269026243 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1269026868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a reason to attempt to learn Erlang when I already know Haskell? < 1269026889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang seems like a dynamically typed, non-lazy Haskell with strange syntax, from what I've seen < 1269026946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's good for different things < 1269026958 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn erlang while you write the program < 1269026967 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't need to write a program in erlang why bother < 1269027060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is confusingly Prology; for some reason I find it funny, even though there's really nothing especially funny there. < 1269027125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang was originally implemented in prolog, IIRC < 1269027133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reimplemented in something more efficient after a while < 1269027143 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplemeted in prolog < 1269027153 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytecode compiler rather than direct interpretre < 1269027153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My one-liner description would've been "non-declarative Prolog with concurrency and communications bits", but I guess that always depends on from where you look at. < 1269027163 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I dunno what happened next < 1269027851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering learning about F# < 1269027978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn about the theory of codes < 1269028013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's real sexy < 1269028728 0 :deschutron!~alex@219-90-177-163.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1269028752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is ridiculous is that there was this ad in the "jobs" noticeboard at the university; it consisted of only a single huge QR code, which, when decoded, yielded a longish quotation from the Book of Mozilla (11:9, I think) and a tinyurlish link to the actual job ad, which was some sort of web-mobile-developery thing. < 1269028785 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QR? < 1269028794 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that those 2d barcode things? < 1269028889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1269028894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one with the squares in it. < 1269028907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Wikipedia_mobile_en.png < 1269030976 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1269030990 0 :deschutron!~alex@219-90-177-163.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1269031722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1269032584 0 :alise!~alise@genld-216-213.t-mobile.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1269032600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is... Dispatch ... Four? < 1269032613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three was the whole crisis thing I think so it wasn't really a dispatch. < 1269032691 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1269032701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, there. < 1269032751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:57:21 I wonder how groups work. < 1269032752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:23 Poorly. < 1269032752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true out of context. < 1269032777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:07:24 For instance, I'm fairly certain that SELinux implements ACLs (along with a trillion other things), but I have not one clue how they work.] < 1269032777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does < 1269032779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awful < 1269032780 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise I used finite calculus to prove something < 1269032785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, uh. Hi? < 1269032790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise! We haven't seen you for xkcd days! < 1269032795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Cool; show me. I need to forget about the week. < 1269032799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, like I said, the unit. < 1269032812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Friday, Saturday, Sunday from now on. Until countries become move. < 1269032813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moved < 1269032820 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise "(1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n) ^ 2 = 1^3 + 2^3 + 3^3 + ... + n^3" < 1269032822 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1269032823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So that they are under my feet. That's why it's called "moving country".) < 1269032827 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why does the square of a sum of numbers equal the sum of each individual number cubed?" < 1269032829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that ... CANNOT BE EXPANDED < 1269032836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't EXIST < 1269032839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Time remaining? < 1269032840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's INFINITE < 1269032841 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1269032843 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're infinet < 1269032845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Who the fuck knows < 1269032851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1269032859 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, - http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/bep0g/why_does_the_square_of_a_sum_of_numbers_equal_the/c0meexi < 1269032881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/math is a cesspool < 1269032883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy trying to convince myself to do more kanji studying. And failing horribly ATM... < 1269032887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of idiocy) < 1269032894 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I used it to prove bijections between N^k and N < 1269032905 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269032937 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-159-110-76.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269032987 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know a better math forum? : | < 1269032992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :) < 1269032993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#math? < 1269033005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: considering all the trolls we get here are from related channels to #math i doubt it < 1269033012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think there is a lot of idiotic drama there < 1269033021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: actually i do < 1269033022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric < 1269033048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is indeed a better channel. < 1269033064 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that cannot have been a serious suggestion < 1269033076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, hi alise < 1269033122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the Math channel on FICS is like < 1269033125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Descarfed? < 1269033130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269033133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269033133 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269033133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269033134 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1269033135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many people complained < 1269033140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I was on FICS recently, and iirc, it was somewhat inactive. < 1269033151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I said something, someone would respond, though < 1269033152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What; why? < 1269033158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not sure < 1269033159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody has complained about my nick. < 1269033165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if people want me to use this nick, I may as well use it < 1269033168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that means nobody cares about me. :) < 1269033171 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FICS? < 1269033177 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is it like? < 1269033178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we want to help you stay undercover < 1269033190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't why I changed nick but sure. < 1269033190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FICS = Free Internet Chess Server. freechess.org < 1269033194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they know I'm ehird. < 1269033209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while, I was wondering if pineapple was you (UK ISP, and my client decided to give you the same nick colour), but I decided it was someone else < 1269033225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never seen him. < 1269033240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was here earlier, and talked in a similar way < 1269033240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ask I'll always respond in the affirmative, btw, so that's one way of identifying me. < 1269033245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it was just a case of both being brits < 1269033249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, whiningly? :) < 1269033261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that isn't a definite method of identification < 1269033268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's free from false negatives, but not from false positives < 1269033275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that if I ask someone else if they're alise, they might lie and say yes < 1269033280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I could tell you all about the horrible week I've had, but you've heard it all before. So unless anyone asks - or I get the inclination - it'll just be left unsaid. < 1269033295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, horrible but nothing new? Mmkay then. < 1269033302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy your moments of sanity, then. < 1269033316 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269033321 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1269033321 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269033326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, partly as an antidote to the Java I do for work, I was doing some Haskell also for work < 1269033326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, something got marginally better in the latter days - they're, zomg, closing the door to my bedroom at night! So now I can actually have troubled sleep instead of staring at bright lights all night. < 1269033335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, you know, "improvement". < 1269033358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it sounds to me like an equivalent boarding school, which seems pretty awful < 1269033368 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269033375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that I was at one of the UK maths camps, which was being held in a boarding school < 1269033377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boarding school with bullshit pseudo-psychology < 1269033382 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we just talk about finite calculus?? < 1269033384 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same nick colour? < 1269033386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the environment was weird, and more so because I was in a girl's bedroom < 1269033387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although at about the same time I was told that if I wanted to continue reading at night I'd have to go to bed earlier... < 1269033394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: yes, my client colours people's nicks depending on who they are < 1269033399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from a relatively small palette < 1269033407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, going to bed minutes later will kill me. (Maybe they could not wake me up at 7 every day?!) < 1269033412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(she wasn't there at the time, they were reusing the bedrooms) < 1269033413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not like I have to travel.) < 1269033414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wait, wha? Makes no sense. < 1269033420 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never went to a math camp < 1269033421 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 16 colour palette? < 1269033429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: no, a different one I think, and even smaller < 1269033431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah and all the night staff do is just sit around and watch tv all night... < 1269033436 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1269033442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice productive 'job' < 1269033445 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I supposed that's not surprising since I was never exceptionaly good at math < 1269033448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magenta, blue, green, cyan, grey, red < 1269033450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it < 1269033458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math camp? o.O < 1269033458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, they're being paid primarily for being available in case of a random emergency. < 1269033472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're totally incompetent though. < 1269033472 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UK maths camps? < 1269033482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, spam gets weirder and weirder: Do You Qualify - Get a $250 Grocery Gift Card < 1269033482 0 :charlesq__!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269033484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: yes < 1269033492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UKIMO reserves, mostly < 1269033500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :United Kingdom In My Opinion. < 1269033509 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :international math olympiad < 1269033514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(next issue here: based on that question, do we know each other?) < 1269033539 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apart from i know that you're a sysop at the esolangs wiki... afaik no < 1269033545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The first day that I was told (by the day staff) that they would tell the night staff to close my door (wow it is so inane negotiating things there it's like i'm 5 years old) it was shut for about 10 minutes then someone turned the light on, opened the door, and propped it up. < 1269033556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Privacy and communication. It's what we're best at. < 1269033575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's a CYA thing, not an "actually doing things" thing, having night staff. < 1269033578 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: where is this? < 1269033586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: You Don't Want To Know. < 1269033591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: I was in the Cambridge and Oundle camps in 2004 and 2005, IIRC, although I might be off by one year there < 1269033604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Suffice to say I'm considered crazy and underage by the state; only one of these is correct. < 1269033613 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais how did you get involved in something like that initally? < 1269033620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :competitions < 1269033626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do well enough in them, they send you an invitation < 1269033630 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1269033635 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be (still is?) a competition for 11-15yo kids at school < 1269033646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another competition for people who are slightly older < 1269033653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UKJMC, UKIMC, UKSMC < 1269033653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Well okay actually if you asked, you probably do want to know. Do you? < 1269033655 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1269033656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clearly you're absolutely bonkers but immortal. < 1269033672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three in all < 1269033687 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: iirc, i had best in school on the UKJMC when i was in year 8 < 1269033688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pineapple is /definitely/ involved in them, on the basis that he knows too much to not be < 1269033700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: heh, in that case you didn't go to the same school as me < 1269033724 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm certainly willing to listen < 1269033742 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not in the same year... my gcse year was 1999 < 1269033785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, good point < 1269033790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're approximately ... eleven? years older than me < 1269033793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to work out when mine was < 1269033802 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 26... :-/ < 1269033805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will summarise to pineapple in /msg so I don't bloat the channel < 1269033810 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fine < 1269033811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1269033812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: twelve years older :P < 1269033817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 23 < 1269033873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I probably missed you by one year at the camps < 1269033874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"22 and ONE HALF!!!" < 1269033906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 and more than 11 months < 1269033920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, come to think of it, my date of birth's probably online somewhere < 1269033952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mine's probably in the channel logs somewhere. < 1269033966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not, well. 4 more days until I'm 20. Whooo. < 1269033979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I surprised that I'm older than pikhq ? < 1269033980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: somehow, I never thought of you as being younger than me < 1269033992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Huh - I'm surprised too. < 1269033994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old is pikhq? < 1269033996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20something? < 1269034000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what/ < 1269034002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19? < 1269034004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 19, based on what he just said < 1269034005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19. < 1269034005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what? < 1269034006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1269034008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1269034010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel inferior < 1269034021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again I've got 4 years to catch up. < 1269034026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEN I'M OLDER THAN YOU < 1269034028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're by far the best programmer of your age I know < 1269034043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're... Pretty damned good. < 1269034085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you might even be better than me, and I'm pretty good to < 1269034087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1269034094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably everyone in this channel is < 1269034130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. We have a tendency to attract only the people that think bizarre programming languages are a neat idea. < 1269034164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you're a better programmer than me < 1269034170 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder why that is... < 1269034182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, it gets boring talking about magick. < 1269034191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there isn't really any easy way to test; maybe not any easy way to define it < 1269034194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 15 April 1987 < 1269034200 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAS ALISE WRITTEN? < 1269034203 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME ONE PROGRAM < 1269034205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: correct; which info source did you use? < 1269034205 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... < 1269034209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: butts(1) < 1269034213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name one program ais523 wrote < 1269034216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/alex_smith_bio.html < 1269034220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: the underload to C compiler < 1269034225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured if it has a picture of you it must have your birthdate < 1269034228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep < 1269034230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was pretty awful code though < 1269034233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scheme version < 1269034238 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you were born on a wednesday < 1269034243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Name to me one program *you've* written! < 1269034243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: still, it was generated pretty quickly < 1269034248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: tab-complete fail? < 1269034248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: not me ais523 < 1269034249 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't written any < 1269034250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what people think of his code >.> < 1269034257 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1269034261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was born on a ... I don't know what day 22 august 1995 was < 1269034262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know I was born on Wednesday, and think it's a pretty irrelevant fact < 1269034263 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reading properly fail < 1269034273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Code? Oh, right. PSOX. < 1269034288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tuesday, apparently < 1269034289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oh, amusingness time! < 1269034292 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh... i'm just bored (and i can work it out in my head) < 1269034295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THOU SHALT NOT MENTION PSOX < 1269034298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My teacher is apparently trying to get a teacher for me so that I can have IT lessons. < 1269034299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 95? Man. I've been on the Internet since before you were born. < 1269034308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are, of course, an area in which I am lacking in skills! < 1269034311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Which is < 1269034314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have publically available Javasscript stuff, but I like to pretend it doesn't exist < 1269034316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: ah, that's impressive; I never bothered to learn the algorithm, especially as I have cal to hand < 1269034320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was written relatively recently! < 1269034321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: LMAO < 1269034329 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269034348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just open Notepad and write a program for every task I'm asked to do. < 1269034350 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not as fast at it as i could be, though... < 1269034351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was actually thinking slightly about this; the best solution IMO is to do your GCSEs/A-levels as soon as possible < 1269034360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of whether it's too early or not < 1269034362 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: notepad? :-/ < 1269034369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to do really easily < 1269034370 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 1995, even I was on the internet before then < 1269034372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Since when do school computers have Emacs? < 1269034375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean vim! < 1269034377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Emacs! ... < 1269034378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No - that will involve me being registered with a school < 1269034384 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no... i am not writing programs in doublefuck with my smileys) < 1269034386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which creates further issues with moving probably < 1269034391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway why would that help? < 1269034394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IIRC there's some way to do it without being registered < 1269034395 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well... heh < 1269034398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public exam places, or something < 1269034404 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't install anything, then fair enough < 1269034409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would prove that you really didn't need low-level education < 1269034415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't think i'd be expected to write a program < 1269034420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the coyotos guy is leaving microsoft already < 1269034426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's even vaguely similar to the US's GED program, it'd be pretty trivial for you to do. < 1269034426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I was really depressed in my IT GCSE < 1269034432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well the unit is controlling all this sort of stuff so < 1269034436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they wanted me to print off the formula view of all the spreadsheet pages < 1269034437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't exactly do tests on the weekends < 1269034438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they were all identical < 1269034444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ugh, yes < 1269034445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get like... single day holidays < 1269034449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even wanted me in on christmas eve < 1269034461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's a HOSPITAL!" < 1269034465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my guess there is that they employ control freaks, because nobody else would want the job < 1269034472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "IT" is an alias for "Office". < 1269034477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Office that is. < 1269034481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know < 1269034486 0 :uorygl_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uorygl < 1269034498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I complained that the syllabus was asking people to say copy/paste was a good way to duplicate info on a spreadsheet < 1269034515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that's the worst thing about PHSE (apart from the whole fucking subject) < 1269034517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There are places here that offer "degrees in IT". I find it hilarious that people are getting degrees in Office. < 1269034519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at the time, I knew of four spreadsheet programs (supercalc, lotus 1-2-3, works, excel), and only excel did copy and paste < 1269034520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also depressing. < 1269034521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very depressing. < 1269034524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :". Write a paragraph to support this" < 1269034536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I fucking disagree you government-originated piece of crap? < 1269034556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should still be able to argue the opposing viewpoint < 1269034556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in history, they do the same thing except they ask you to argue both sides < 1269034559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could anyone have any other opinion? < 1269034560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes a lot more sense < 1269034562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's utter nonsense < 1269034592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Novell slandered SCO's title by claiming to own the copyright to UNIX." Write a paragraph to support this < 1269034620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that isn't what you're asked, and if you do that the anal-retentive teachers will tell you off. < 1269034626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make you do what it says. Sigh. < 1269034631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes it i s? < 1269034633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1269034640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it asks you to /support/ the statement. < 1269034644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not oppose it. < 1269034646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that's what I meant < 1269034652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Deewiant means that, a good debater/lawyer can argue the opposite of their own opinion < 1269034653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to argue the viewpoint which opposes your own < 1269034665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you evidently opposed it < 1269034670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah < 1269034675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it's sleazy < 1269034682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're meant to be "learning" these "opinions" < 1269034693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can practice by writing paragraphs on why the unit is a good idea < 1269034697 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what anyone here is talking about < 1269034720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a literally impossible task < 1269034724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: stupid UK curriculum < 1269034728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stuff like "George Bush was the greatest president ever, and he totally defeated every terrorist. Write a paragraph to support this." < 1269034742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(level of stupidity, not specific example) < 1269034748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: try not reading about how UK assessment works, it'll make your brain melt < 1269034764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the maths A-level became around 16% easier the year after I did it, and I have objective evidence of this < 1269034781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the official line is that the kids are getting cleverer, rather than the exams getting easier) < 1269034784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... You mean it's more stupid than the US system? < 1269034797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: schooling is (slightly, at least) better, but assessment is really stupid < 1269034824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try looking for what the pass mark for maths GCSE is nowadays < 1269034825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our assessment is also freaking stupid, but it's more consistent at least... < 1269034855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that we have started teaching, not knowledge, but how to take the tests. < 1269034880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are usually multiple choice. < 1269034882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yahoo answers says 90% for the top mark, but those are "scaled marks" designed to fit everyone to a normal distribution... < 1269034897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the second Google result, the raw pass mark is currently 16% < 1269034919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and essay exams? They are *computer graded*. < 1269034940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahaha < 1269034944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have to use this really piss-poor Flash-based examination system < 1269034949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what, number of keywords? < 1269034951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, the same happens in the UK, except that they're graded by humans following a strict algorithm < 1269034962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I dunno. < 1269034962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yep < 1269034966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by piss poor I mean nigh on impossible to use < 1269034978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: please tell me it's better than WebCT < 1269034990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an attempt to reimplement all the standard web technologies via other means, as far as I can tell < 1269034995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result breaks really badly almost all the time < 1269035002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called Goal < 1269035014 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise do you ever get angry < 1269035020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goalonline.co.uk/ < 1269035022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: all the time, why < 1269035095 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1269035104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goalonline.co.uk/23.08.06CROYDONGUARDIANADDINGTONHIGHSCHOOL.BMP < 1269035104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NICEFILENAMEANDIMAGEFORMAT.BMP < 1269035120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1269035126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1269035129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1700x2340 BMP < 1269035133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still hasn't loaded!!! < 1269035146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: not randomly though... just because my life really sucks :D < 1269035149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMP of a photograph of a newspaper xD < 1269035162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't even notice it was a bmp < 1269035163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the scanner was being used!!! < 1269035169 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-156-99-114.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269035170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I did notice it loaded from the bottom upwards, that should have been a clue < 1269035175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as comical as the actual product < 1269035176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 12 megabytes < 1269035197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do bmps start with the end? < 1269035204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1269035212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it made blitting them to video graphics easier back in the days of windows 3.1 < 1269035229 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 ais < 1269035276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which is, you know, "improvement". <-- so you didn't get to stay at home? < 1269035276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1269035279 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1269035281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1269035283 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1269035286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also: move abroad < 1269035290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you have to do < 1269035297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because they never let me? I just refused to go while stuff was being sorted out -- and also that is the plan. < 1269035300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not convinced that it'll help much < 1269035303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it will. < 1269035311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro and pikhq - bless 'em - have looked into the relevant laws. < 1269035317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I commit no crime I can move and be completely safe. < 1269035331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they try to section you retrospectively? < 1269035342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1269035356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only section someone under the jurisdiction of UK law. < 1269035384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they can only get me if I committed a crime on UK soil < 1269035390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only way you can extradite someone < 1269035394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This might amuse you: pyfunge Mycology output prior to a recent change: http://pastebin.com/8taKGWs7 and after: http://pastebin.com/rZVSXiUu < 1269035400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wondering about UK assessment problems: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article564491.ece < 1269035417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyfunge - that a new one? < 1269035422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours? < 1269035424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why write Python? < 1269035431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's old and not mine < 1269035441 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe that's why Mac (still) draws images backwards < 1269035442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one. < 1269035464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disambig(Mac) < 1269035467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X? < 1269035471 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1269035484 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least iphone does < 1269035493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pyfunge? < 1269035501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I thought it passed with flying colours < 1269035504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does nobody remember pyfunge? :-P < 1269035507 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 16%... i knew it could be as low as 20% if you were doing maths at higher tier (back in the 3 tier system) < 1269035509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is it bad for 1k[ to turn left? I can't remember < 1269035509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it didn't < 1269035518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It should turn left at the k, not the [ < 1269035524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, ofc < 1269035525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wasn't it the one lifthrasiir made? < 1269035530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread what you were testing < 1269035539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yep < 1269035546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an old one, though < 1269035546 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, how did they make that page, it's a 404 in opera, but works in chrome < 1269035553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite amusing just how crazy the other people at the unit are compared to me. < 1269035559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also in the second one, what happened to the output in the second one? < 1269035568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that's the funny part :-) < 1269035569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I mean, a lot of the beginning was lost < 1269035574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an anorexic girl who from what I can tell has been cutting herself there, about 13. On a feeding tube quite a lot of the time. < 1269035580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or was it just cut? < 1269035587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope, that's the whole output < 1269035594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before and after the change < 1269035594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how did it manage that ^_^ < 1269035606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made me blink a bit as well :-D < 1269035612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was the "BAD: 2k6 leaves 2 sixes on stack" a fatal error? < 1269035618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1269035642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Evidently it does something very unexpected with form feeds in the source < 1269035643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the other possibility is that alise is actually a psychopathic murderer or something and doesn't know it, and only comes here in lucid periods < 1269035649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I see... < 1269035660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems unlikely to me < 1269035669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As far as I can tell RC/Funge-98 treats them as EOF, for what it's worth < 1269035680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've metaanalysed my sanity more times than I can count; any rational person would in the face of all these people sure I'm crazy. < 1269035685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checks out okay for me, though. < 1269035686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cfunge ignores them iirc < 1269035698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, like EOF should be in unefunge < 1269035701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I haven't managed to coax a BAD out of cfunge yet ;-) < 1269035707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1269035709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll keep trying < 1269035709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey, when I did that, I decided I was actually insane, but so was the world in general so I didn't care < 1269035715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about efunge? < 1269035722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't been trying that now < 1269035725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could though, I suppose < 1269035728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and I don't have time to make a new release in the next few weeks < 1269035736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You didn't build an inside-out asylum, did you? :P < 1269035743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I need some kind of base measure. < 1269035744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't worry, I probably don't either :-P < 1269035756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: this channel may not be the best place... < 1269035761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no point, I was crazy too < 1269035764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so please use the last version. To avoid the issue with y as pick < 1269035770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it has been fixed for both efunge and cfunge < 1269035773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(different issues) < 1269035777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but both had issues) < 1269035784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to use last revision < 1269035805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a neat Chrome feature. < 1269035809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolframa2+2. < 1269035816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It automatically detects site searches in the address bar! < 1269035821 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha is pissing me off < 1269035827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying, but still. < 1269035830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to love it. < 1269035830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IIRC even firefox does that < 1269035836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you don't go to wolfram alpha < 1269035847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you type wolframa, it (gets from google the results) shows wolframalpha.com, you press TAB < 1269035849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the address bar is < 1269035852 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just gives up if your query is longer than like 70 chars.. < 1269035854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Search wolframalpha.com:] < 1269035855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought there was some way to do that < 1269035858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm, it doesn't seem to build much < 1269035861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without even loading the page? < 1269035865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:\] $/:]/ < 1269035877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is possible in firefox < 1269035879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how < 1269035883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what doesn't? < 1269035885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, it just doesn't like my EFUNGE_ROOT it seems < 1269035885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cfunge? < 1269035895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, EFUNGE_ROOT? I don't remember that < 1269035899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First it says "efunge directory not found" then I set EFUNGE_ROOT and now it says efunge.beam not found < 1269035909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since I'm not running it from the source dir, it wants that set < 1269035912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it should be run from the dir where efunge it < 1269035914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./efunge < 1269035915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1269035917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1269035926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, efunge.beam should be in ebin < 1269035927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's horribly inconvenient < 1269035938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, sure, but tell me if it works there < 1269035941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, I should point root to the ebin directory < 1269035945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the root directory < 1269035945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting EFUNGE_ROOT *should* work though < 1269035948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course < 1269035949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1269035955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe I should do something about that < 1269035960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mistake < 1269035974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the issue is that I can't really detect where "I" am on POSIX < 1269035987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: efunge doesn't shrink the Funge-Space bounds! Tut, tut. < 1269035993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um it does < 1269036000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have checked that < 1269036006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure you use the last revision? < 1269036008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, woops, my mistake, there's still a bug in that code < 1269036014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: testing slowdown? < 1269036019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1269036026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowdown won't work well on efunge I think < 1269036027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nah, adding the bounds-shrinking testing stuff to Mycology < 1269036040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to slowdown trying to generate a random placed from the cell size < 1269036041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bounds-shrinking is required by the spec? < 1269036043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just doesn't work < 1269036051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haha < 1269036065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should use an exponential distribution, or something < 1269036065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after all, what is a random number between 0 and 8^-1 < 1269036074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anything between 0 and 1/8 < 1269036075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an integer that is < 1269036083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^-8 actually < 1269036088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1269036091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1269036094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway < 1269036103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowdown can't work on efunge due to that issue < 1269036107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1269036118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I'm not going to "fix" it < 1269036126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I consider it not a bug < 1269036128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a feature < 1269036132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, understandable < 1269036154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could patch slowdown to use some reasonably-large number if it gets <0 but I haven't bothered < 1269036155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, after all, I don't know any other bignum funge. It is exploiting a specific niche < 1269036161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1269036168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc it messes up that other test suite too < 1269036170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot it's name < 1269036176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The spec says "least point which contains a non-space cell" < 1269036177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather limited compared to mycology < 1269036185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cat's Eye one? < 1269036194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no the third one < 1269036203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungus or something wasn't it < 1269036207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungus, yes < 1269036214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hmm, what about Unicode whitespace? < 1269036216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efunge *should* handle shrinking bounds < 1269036222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't answer what ATHR will do to it < 1269036224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could < 1269036227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be complicated < 1269036228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think "space" is fairly well defined in the spec :-P < 1269036236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Questioning that will only lead to trouble < 1269036237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and require quite a deep understanding of efunge internals < 1269036240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK < 1269036260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since mycology doesn't test ATHR it should not cause any issues < 1269036270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you want to test TURT use the supervisor branch < 1269036276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trunk lacks TURT < 1269036278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on efunge < 1269036544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't suppose I can get a printout of some funge-space area out of cfunge/efunge < 1269036609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you can using gdb for cfunge < 1269036618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a function enabled for debug builds of cfunge < 1269036626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for efunge, well you can also use a debugger or such < 1269036631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course you can use o for it < 1269036639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can change the code to include an o < 1269036650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o would probably be easiest, yeah < 1269036673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for efunge I don't *think* there is any "pre-made" dumping function < 1269036677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure XD < 1269036758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed can't find any < 1269036776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just a one-liner in an erlang shell for supervisor < 1269036782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a one-liner in funge itself, too < 1269036784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat harder for trunk probably < 1269036791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well sure < 1269036802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think I'm fairly sure that cfunge/efunge are not shrinking bounds properly < 1269036810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in what way, and test case please < 1269036830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a hunch..." "PROVE IT!" < 1269036847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't do anything without knowing what exactly is the issue < 1269036855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because for my tests of it, it worked < 1269036860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike ccbi1 iirc < 1269036861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:12:43 idea suggested in another channel: use /b/ as an entropy source for /dev/random < 1269036861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cycle of "nigger" does not have very good statistical randomness. < 1269036878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they do other things too, though < 1269036883 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's called pseudorandom < 1269036893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way /dev/random works, it doesn't matter if you put patterned or non-random data into it < 1269036898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you could use the timing of the postings < 1269036909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1269036915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1269036924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it try to detect patterns and throw such away? < 1269036930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which seems hard to me.) < 1269036930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't use the data unchanged < 1269036938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses /entropy/ from the input < 1269036950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well sure, but you can still influence it that way can't you? < 1269036956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know all the input data sent to it < 1269036964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, assume you have an internal seed, which is true-random (don't worry about where it comes from for now), and some external data < 1269036975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you XOR the seed with the external data, it's still just as random < 1269036985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the external data is all zeros < 1269036987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then why does it need the external data at all < 1269036994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as the external data isn't produced with knowledge of what the seed is < 1269037012 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1269037022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, that keeps randomness constant; you can also add randomness to a system if you have a measure of how much entropy is in the original message < 1269037025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, what is the issue you are seeing < 1269037031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:14:34 I guess you could make a game that uses /b/ as input < 1269037032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you put /dev/zero into /dev/random, you don't get any more entropy < 1269037037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:14:55 kind of like tetris peices, except memes < 1269037037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just get DESU all the time < 1269037045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put something like #esoteric in, you get rather more < 1269037049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cfunge and efunge use *completely* different ways for doing it btw < 1269037059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put in a true-random source, ideally it would go perfectly < 1269037081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/191616/ :-P < 1269037082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it can actually count the amount of entropy in the input data, though, so you might fool the bits of the code that maintain the estimate to how much data it's safe to give out of /dev/random. < 1269037107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sorry, that actually creates the o dump as well into /tmp/y < 1269037109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, possibly < 1269037117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can disable that easily enough on the bottom line if you want to < 1269037119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there may be some well-known way to get a lower bound < 1269037122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be good enough < 1269037154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, issue: those first BAD seems wrong < 1269037162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what is your theory for it hanging there < 1269037163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First BAD? < 1269037164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, from the /dev/random sources: < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * outside observer to measure. Randomness from these sources are < 1269037170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: least point should have been ( -1 -1 ) < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * added to an "entropy pool", which is mixed using a CRC-like function. < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * This is not cryptographically strong, but it is adequate assuming < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * the randomness is not chosen maliciously, and it is fast enough that < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * the overhead of doing it on every interrupt is very reasonable. < 1269037170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * As random bytes are mixed into the entropy pool, the routines keep < 1269037171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that ^ < 1269037172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * an *estimate* of how many bits of randomness have been stored into < 1269037174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * the random number generator's internal state. < 1269037178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the greatest point one too < 1269037180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that's wrong, ignore that. -3 -2 is right < 1269037195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the greatest point is obviously wrong because I grabbed only the first 200 lines of mycology, not all of it :-P < 1269037197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, just determined that myself a different way < 1269037208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right. so what is the issue. That it hangs right there? < 1269037213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/random is basically just /dev/urandom except it blocks when its estimate of the amount of available entropy goes down to 0, IIRC < 1269037216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing hangs for me? < 1269037230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, right after the UNDEF: ) with a negative count reflects and pops 0 times or less than the absolute value of the count < 1269037231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line < 1269037233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the pastebin mangled it... hang on < 1269037234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just locks up < 1269037237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but additionally the part about using a CRC-like non-strong function for the mixing. < 1269037238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so malicious input might make it slightly less than true-random, but it should be crypto-secure in any case < 1269037249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably < 1269037257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it did. Sigh. < 1269037261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you don't need a strong function for the /mixing/, so long as you're only combining data, not replacing < 1269037263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR would be enough < 1269037268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you have your own website, use it :P < 1269037274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a temp file there < 1269037276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lyx how do you do a single char function name? < 1269037279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathrm? < 1269037283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll just host it locally, quicker < 1269037295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that would work, if you prefer that font < 1269037296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: for mathematical functions, I just use the default italic-like maths font < 1269037300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm < 1269037310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\mathrm is good for things that are supposed to be non-italic < 1269037312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://tar.us.to:12345/arst.b98 < 1269037326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but lyx is all ooh semantic < 1269037347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( -10 -10 ) < 1269037348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1269037357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you have any storage offset set? < 1269037360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You got -10 -10? O_o < 1269037364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is my first reaction to it < 1269037365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got -10 -1 here < 1269037380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, valgrind reports nothing < 1269037385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is on cfunge < 1269037386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And no, the offset is 0 0 < 1269037393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug build, probably 64-bit *checks* < 1269037396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe your build doesn't have bounds shrinking enabled? < 1269037401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would cause -10 -10 < 1269037404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge 0.9.0 [+con +trace +exact-bounds +ncurses hardened debug asserts p:64 c:64] < 1269037415 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269037416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has shrinking bounds enabled < 1269037417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge 0.9.0 [+con +trace +exact-bounds +ncurses p:64 c:64 < 1269037425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I guess that's true, assuming you can't deduce the state, and it does seem to use a real hash function for producing the actual output bytes. < 1269037438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and ccbi passes this? < 1269037440 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh right; it depends on whether mycotmp*.tmp existed or not :-P < 1269037448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, inability to determine the internal state is the whole basis of all this < 1269037448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ccbi2 does, yes < 1269037453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well then, that isn't very reliable < 1269037460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the requirements for cryptosecure randomness is that you can't deduce the internal state from the output < 1269037462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -2 -1 is right in either case < 1269037476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and efunge fails in the exact same way? < 1269037476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's why it says "after spacing top-left corner" ;-) < 1269037483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know about all this from the whole NetHack RNG-control debacle) < 1269037483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes < 1269037486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did this one dump? < 1269037491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they use a cryptographically secure RNG for tournaments nowadays) < 1269037505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The last line of that does the dump yes < 1269037510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not the whole thing though < 1269037514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what part is dumped? < 1269037517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should've looked at that first actually :-P < 1269037523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 20x20 starting at -10 -10 < 1269037533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a 2000x2000 < 1269037538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there seems to be stuff in there. Not sure what it actually contains < 1269037565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I really don't have time to debug this until next weekend. Have exam on monday and wensday (spelling?) < 1269037576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wednesday >_< < 1269037576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exams* < 1269037586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah, I always typo it < 1269037596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onsdag is so much easier to remember < 1269037627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw that dump contains a form feed I see < 1269037631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1269037633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1269037640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't < 1269037645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try less on it < 1269037652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't formfeed? < 1269037657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it is hex < 1269037660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's 0xFF < 1269037667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is correct < 1269037679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ^A ^@ and < 1269037685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a cell with value -1 at (-2,-1) < 1269037691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is that 0xFF < 1269037701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the 2000x2000 dump there's nothing to the west or north of that < 1269037710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how comes mycoedge and such worked without flaw (correcting for offset error). What are you doing differently here? < 1269037711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet cfunge says the minimum point is -10,-1 < 1269037721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing AFAIK < 1269037729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at the mycoedge file at all < 1269037734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does efunge say the same thing? < 1269037738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, same thing < 1269037757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, efunge might be easier to debug. Plus it actually scans the entire funge space for set cells to calc the bounds < 1269037771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how are you overwriting them btw? < 1269037773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The dump from cfunge and CCBI is identical < 1269037775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain p? < 1269037781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for a newline at EOF < 1269037784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just p < 1269037796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11g::' \22gp < 1269037817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As an aside, you can get the entropy estimate out by reading /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail, it seems. < 1269037820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((1,1) being the X coordinate and (2,2) the Y) < 1269037832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1269037851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be an off by one error when marking bounds as inexact I guess < 1269037852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I knew that already (well, not the exact path, but I knew it was in /proc/sys somewhere, and had a good idea of where to find it) < 1269037859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is about the only part of the algorithm they share < 1269037866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there's also a file in there somewhere which gives you UUIDs when you read it < 1269037869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what happens if always marking in inexact in efunge < 1269037879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(efunge's algorithm is slower but easier to debug) < 1269037880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it's "next" to that one (same dir). < 1269037945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:59:07 If you are bored, you could take a look at lolcode < 1269037945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:59:11 its funny < 1269037945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaa < 1269037963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16:34 Use mIRC < 1269037963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so that is it < 1269037964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16:37 Or something < 1269037964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16:53 I didnt see that one in google chrome plugin page < 1269037964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffff < 1269037979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I force the bounds to always be considered inexact the issue does not show up < 1269037982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Weird that Deewiant didn't mention this, but en:Wednesday is fi:keskiviikko, where fi:viikko == en:week, and fi:keski- is a prefix somewhat like en:mid-; center, middle; so the Finnish word for Wednesday is "mid-week". That's also pretty easy to remember. < 1269037995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269038004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was concentrating on the more important issue here, sorry ;-) < 1269038013 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds very much like the german for wednesday < 1269038026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Yes, it's pretty much the same thing. < 1269038042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts writing a copying garbage collector for the purpose of writing a "proper" Lazy K interpreter. < 1269038044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There are some differences between cfunge/efunge in the o dump btw: at least efunge doesn't output the null byte, and then some other things that I can't see but diff claims they differ < 1269038045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Cause. < 1269038054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what null byte? < 1269038054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit strange that none of the other weekdays have names like that. < 1269038055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can't you refcount Lazy K? < 1269038061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The null byte in the source of mycology < 1269038062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1269038067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really? < 1269038069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, should it output it? < 1269038071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclic data structures are quite possible. < 1269038076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have no clue why it wouldn't be doing it < 1269038078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you refcount lambda calculus? < 1269038079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought most combinator langs had no way to produce cyclic data structures < 1269038085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it should output /something/ there :-P < 1269038086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda doesn't, IIRC < 1269038090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K is lazy. < 1269038093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I blame the runtime for it. Or something. < 1269038094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1269038103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alright :-) < 1269038120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed pointer combinator = cyclic data structure. ;) < 1269038122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I know now the issue in efunge at least is in the code checking if an update might cause bounds to be inexact < 1269038129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I vaguely knew it was lazy, but for some reason didn't notice that mattered < 1269038145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, good; just confirming that I'm not wrong ;-) < 1269038146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is this not correct: < 1269038152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I did manage to coax a BAD out of cfunge, ha < 1269038153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. I'm writing this *mostly* because I've never written a garbage collector before. < 1269038153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : X =:= MinX; X =:= MaxX; Y =:= MinY; Y =:= MaxY -> < 1269038153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : put(fspacebounds_exact, false), < 1269038162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can you tell me about that? < 1269038165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For what < 1269038178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, context for this: when putting a space? < 1269038184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if X and Y are position of space being written, and Min/Max being bounds yes < 1269038208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And fspacebounds_exact being false means that you then find the new bounds? < 1269038210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ; in this case means "or" < 1269038225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that being false means that if y asks for it, I will recalculate it < 1269038237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, okay < 1269038241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1269038250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I won't bother for wrapping < 1269038255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems right to me < 1269038261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it can't be < 1269038262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1269038263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't think of why it wouldn't work < 1269038294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, it *doesn't* < 1269038326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's curious, the bot got a "403: Forbidden" from Twitter. < 1269038328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you sure all the values are correct to begin with? < 1269038336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mhm maybe they dislike bots < 1269038347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MinX, MaxX, MinY, MaxY I mean; and even X,Y I suppose although that's less likely < 1269038374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, pretty sure < 1269038387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus if I swapped them it would have caused issues elsewhere already I think < 1269038403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My best guess is that one of them is wrong somehow < 1269038407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect it must be an off by one error < 1269038413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that < 1269038415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, bounds not being that exactly < 1269038424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they are one larger or whatever < 1269038428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be silly < 1269038451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since it is basically only updated in one function, and I see nothing wrong there < 1269038469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did the bounds only grow to -10, -10? Or did they grow even further? < 1269038478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They have quite a lot of bots already, though. There's e.g. big_ben_CLOCK, which auto-tweets something like "BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG" every hour, with the correct number of BONGs of course. < 1269038492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm okay < 1269038514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that one has 47,157 followers; fungot has 6. Still quite some way to go there! < 1269038528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If it did the o testing i.e. you had free mycotmp, to -10,-10; otherwise to -3,-2 < 1269038547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1269038571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the code for recalculating bounds must be correct, since if I force it to be used all the time, then it works < 1269038599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1269038619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code for growing the bounds. well if they grow to one too large that would cause mycology to complain in the y test already wouldn't it? < 1269038632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or one too small if it comes to that) < 1269038633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big_ben_clock is wonderful < 1269038665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The y test is before the -10 -10 bounds; but yes, cfunge and efunge both put the correct -3,-2 there < 1269038681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lets see what happens if we always set bounds to inexact on writing space < 1269038707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay *that* doesn't work < 1269038711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was completely unexpected < 1269038724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269038746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure you're looking at the code for p and not g? ;-P < 1269038759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm looking at the function update_bounds < 1269038775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is called from set() < 1269038960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1269038973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, are you sure you just write *space* with p? < 1269038982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not something that with o ends up as it < 1269038987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11g::' \22gp < 1269038998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not space + 256, no :-P < 1269039002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the 11g for? < 1269039011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,1) is the X-coordinate, (2,2) the Y < 1269039018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269039023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why are you storing them there < 1269039030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, befunge isn't naturally PIC < 1269039039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where should I store them? < 1269039059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is impossible with more than one value to keep around < 1269039065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without FRTH or equivalent extensions < 1269039123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269039128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hard coded :P < 1269039135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter < 1269039148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the (0,0) as scratch space all over < 1269039177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what the hell < 1269039190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it still fails with the same issue as before < 1269039193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I'll be going to (0,0) again to execute something, so it's okay :-P < 1269039196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when setting it to false always < 1269039206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee heisenbug < 1269039210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun ;-) < 1269039212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes < 1269039227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [{FirstX,FirstY}|Coordinates] = ets:select(Fungespace, [{{'$1','$2'},[{'=/=','$2',$\s}],['$1']}]), < 1269039227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NewBounds = find_extremes(Coordinates, FirstX, FirstY, FirstX, FirstY), < 1269039233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out why that is wrong < 1269039234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee readable code < 1269039236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw-dangity, my hostmask is wrongly. < 1269039239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody erlang and its syntax < 1269039240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1269039240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is readable < 1269039242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you know it < 1269039243 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269039258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find erlang's syntax abhorrent :-P < 1269039260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, think of it as a DSL like SQL < 1269039263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Erlang's syntax is shit. < 1269039264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that second part < 1269039266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read it, it's not a problem < 1269039273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take Prolog - then misinterpret its syntax wildly. < 1269039273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't make it less ugly < 1269039281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that ;-) < 1269039284 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269039291 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who made erlang know a bit of prolog :P < 1269039311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than a bit, but they reused parts of it's syntax < 1269039318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different purposes < 1269039318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just a bit < 1269039322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see what is wrong with that < 1269039323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they knew more than a bit they wouldn't make it so stupid < 1269039325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, agreed < 1269039334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they reused more than a bit < 1269039336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1269039339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't make it stupid < 1269039344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they knew no more than just a bit < 1269039353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even know prolog, so... shaddup < 1269039374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes "[{{'$1','$2'},[{'=/=','$2',$\s}],['$1']}]" *is* horrible < 1269039378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree about that < 1269039386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that could use some newlines and spacing < 1269039389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it is a DSL < 1269039389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit of spacing around commas would help there IMO < 1269039391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SQL < 1269039406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so complain about my coding style then rather than erlang < 1269039406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1269039409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just strings < 1269039419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd rather complain about both < 1269039446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [{FirstX,FirstY}|Coordinates] = ets:select(Fungespace, [{{'$1','$2'}, < 1269039446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [{'=/=','$2',$\s}], < 1269039446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ['$1']}]), < 1269039449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what about that < 1269039456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could use a newline earlier < 1269039489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's worse. < 1269039497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no it isn't < 1269039509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1269039510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems better to me but it could still be better < 1269039518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1269039520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway < 1269039544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems correct to me, thus find_extremes must be wrong < 1269039580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't spot anything wrong with that either < 1269039587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests it on some test data < 1269039681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> efunge_fungespace:find_extremes([{0,0},{1,1},{2,2}], 1, 4, 1, 4). < 1269039681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{0,0},{2,4}} < 1269039683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems correct < 1269039835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is there anything at -10,186 for you? < 1269039845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my dump from the last bounds recalculation there is < 1269039883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that (whatever it is) supposed to be there? < 1269039919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm; yes, it is < 1269039965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, looks like it's my bug and not yours < 1269039970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me verify < 1269039983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:48:10 how far you got multiplied by how much you suck < 1269039983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1269040044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-S yeah, my bad < 1269040061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely forgot about that stupid string-wrapped-around-the-void test < 1269040078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which puts a " at -10,186 indeed < 1269040085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so that is the cause of all this? < 1269040094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; sorry about the mess < 1269040098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, *growl* < 1269040106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so how did ccbi pass it? < 1269040115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By being buggy, obviously < 1269040117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1269040137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I had to dump the entire set of non-space coordinate pairs to a file to find out < 1269040144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one huge file and slow to search < 1269040150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1269040155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, kate didn't like it all being on one line either < 1269040158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I didn't give you all of mycology ;-) < 1269040159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1269040163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why'd you print it on one line < 1269040171 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269040176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because it ran out of my scrollback otherwise < 1269040182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dumped it to stdout < 1269040189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to do to file directly < 1269040205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it would have been... 20374 lines < 1269040209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if dumped one per line < 1269040211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normal way) < 1269040234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the file goes like: < 1269040235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[{28,166},{63,165},{46,116},{9,95},{52,85},{16,154},{132,147},{112,145},{113,119},{36,114},{16,41},{123,8},{138,174},{8,171}, < 1269040236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've dumped it to stdout then used sort | head -n1 :-P < 1269040237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1269040254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I would have had to grep for the output from it < 1269040261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to mycology < 1269040279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dump to stderr < 1269040285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1269040305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell me if cfunge still is buggy < 1269040312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that BAD: no you didn't mange it *yet* < 1269040313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1269040328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somewhat worried about that heisenbug I saw though < 1269040334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some error when debugging < 1269040347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1269040357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it only happened once forget about it, it /probably/ won't happen again ;-P < 1269040370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1269040387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it happened with a specific compile rather < 1269040407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I probably introduced some other bug when debugging < 1269040421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reverted the changes now anyway < 1269040466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why would that " be put at -10,186 ? < 1269040470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that test < 1269040472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1269040507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the X coordinate is minimal < 1269040530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how does this explain the -10,-10 btw as opposed to -10,-1 or whatever it was < 1269040554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that another bug? < 1269040564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-10,-10 is used by the o test < 1269040587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and something in column -10 not properly cleared? < 1269040627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, hmm < 1269040627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1269040635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume so, and I'm not going to debug it until you are 100% certain that it isn't your bug < 1269040640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not after the last one < 1269040670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just wonder what strange algorithm ccbi is using that makes it behave like that < 1269040688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably some off-by-one type thing < 1269040694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1269040712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, off by -8/-9 rather :P < 1269040752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, off by one could cause it to miss that -10,186 cell < 1269040755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I like cons lists because of this, lot harder to make off by one list < 1269040759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since without that, -2 -1 is indeed correct < 1269040777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then why the -10 in y as well < 1269040788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said I'm not going to spend time debugging that now < 1269040805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The -10,186 is only added after the y test < 1269040823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean: < 1269040828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( -10 -10 ) < 1269040830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of: < 1269040832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( -10 -1 ) < 1269040841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that ^ < 1269040852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think that might be an output error < 1269040854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mycology < 1269040865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? It just outputs the two cells pushed by y < 1269040892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you said it's probably a bug when spacing the corner < 1269040906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1269040922 0 :Libster!~Libster@12.130.117.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269040929 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello best friends < 1269040932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you said -2,-1 was correct however. anyway I can't tell you were since I removed the dump code, and too lazy to re-add it < 1269040936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just search for it yourself < 1269040943 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269040953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2,-1 is correct < 1269040959 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/my.barackobama.com < 1269040961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with the o test, it might not be after all < 1269040969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libster, hi I guess. < 1269040976 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi how do i troll here < 1269040980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1269040985 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1269040987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we rather that you didn't < 1269040990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll that is < 1269040991 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1269040998 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll go to a different channel then bye < 1269041000 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1269041006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1269041006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone bother learning Brainfuck? < 1269041013 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^troll? < 1269041018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1269041030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was one very confusing visit < 1269041037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise missed it completely < 1269041039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1269041096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, tell me if you find any actual bugs < 1269041210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore Libster you idiots < 1269041243 0 :charlesq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1269041249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a rather polite troll however :P < 1269041269 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269041315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no he's just a retard from #not-math who followed fax here < 1269041325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he shuts up if you don't talk to him < 1269041325 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1269041333 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1269041336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libster < 1269041354 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just libster < 1269041401 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not-math? < 1269041411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a channel. < 1269041413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: base3 gave up < 1269041435 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, there's a mathoverflow.com < 1269041459 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo mathoverflow is for reseach level math though < 1269041470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just saw that in the FAQ < 1269041471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not-math? < 1269041477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the math one < 1269041480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not not-math < 1269041485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not mathematics. < 1269041493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's a broad area < 1269041497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathoverflow is nice. < 1269041558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i understand like 0.0001% of the qs there < 1269041562 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Exchange is proprietary? < 1269041593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1269041594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to convince himself to write more of this code. < 1269041597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's atwood and spolsky < 1269041605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two biggest retards ever to exist in programming < 1269041626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not doing too well at that. < 1269041635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How to write IFELSE as mathematic equation?" < 1269041638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me < 1269041662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... *What?* < 1269041663 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1269041681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathoverflow.net/questions/18696/how-to-write-if-else-as-mathematic-equation < 1269041683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some retard being idiotic < 1269041687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stack Exchange is proprietary? <-- I read that as "stock" first < 1269041694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and went like "??" < 1269041695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much dumb. < 1269041796 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once thought about problems like that >.> < 1269041816 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it must be trolling < 1269041828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, so it must < 1269041830 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily imagine asking that sort of question < 1269041838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well, you are Sgeo_... < 1269041839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           | < 1269041839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           |\ < 1269041845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1269041851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is so horrible to sgeo \o/ < 1269041851 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                | < 1269041851 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                               /| < 1269041864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so are you too a lot of the time :P < 1269041866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_.?? < 1269041871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, o_ < 1269041877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1269041881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it didn't this time < 1269041888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_, < 1269041893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_... < 1269041894 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1269041894 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /| < 1269041897 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1269041898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that did it < 1269041903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't lined up at all < 1269041904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1269041905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_. < 1269041906 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1269041906 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |\ < 1269041913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not lined up here at all < 1269041922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lined up with the _, not the o < 1269041923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless bot IMO < 1269041929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a person not a bot < 1269041933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that lines up one space after the . < 1269041938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with a script < 1269041938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1269041939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: A script, a bot, same difference < 1269041939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lined up in mirc style names < 1269041941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no difference < 1269041942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which most people use < 1269041946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat is just stupid like that < 1269041946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1269041949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mirc style names"? < 1269041950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "most" in here too? < 1269041952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not right-aligned < 1269041965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ircii-style, irssi-style, I'd say. < 1269041972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \o/ was aligned properly at the o, but the o_. wasn't < 1269041972 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |                                          | < 1269041972 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      /<                                          >\ < 1269041973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't even realize you were messing with my < 1269041975 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still isn't < 1269041981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's meant to be at the _ < 1269041982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, < 1269041992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is meant to be at the _ < 1269041994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows why < 1269041997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1269042000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_. < 1269042003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid bot < 1269042007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ is the mouth so < 1269042009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the middle < 1269042012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop \_/ < 1269042017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1269042019 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1269042031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\_/ looks quite headless. < 1269042052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1269042057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since jsMath does take some time to render mathematical markup (for some people it's quite slow), please consider using basic HTML and HTML symbols for simple formulas whenever possible," < 1269042079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't they render it on the server and serve an im.. oh, actually, just because MediaWiki does that, doesn't mean it's a good idea < 1269042096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can do < 1269042125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine though that some people might have JS disabled but still be able to view images < 1269042143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/hxxYn.jpg < 1269042153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I use right aligned, so it fails to line up here < 1269042172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What client? < 1269042182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, xchat atm < 1269042202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I don't know of any other that does that < 1269042220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well my erc setup does too < 1269042240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was using xchat because of dcc (which erc doesn't support) < 1269042244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd set up irssi to do it if I knew how < 1269042257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were younger, I'd mindboggle at SQL Injection < 1269042288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: LimeChat, at least some scheme of it. < 1269042293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone showed me, without demonstrating, some SQL Injection, I'd say it's sily. Data obviously should not become code like that. It would take incredible stupidity < 1269042322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, irssi can do it up to a fixed column < 1269042324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also I guess some IM clients that do IRC too. < 1269042325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it does. < 1269042334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where it overflows to the right < 1269042339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, people here probably have a good idea: which company would you all recommend I buy domain names from, and why? < 1269042339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's common stupidity. < 1269042341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice and long nicks are unusual < 1269042347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, some format code < 1269042350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot details < 1269042375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think we discussed the details here not long ago. < 1269042377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Why does the square of a sum of numbers equal the sum of each individual number cubed?" < 1269042383 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269042386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a bit crappy though < 1269042395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it's somehow really obvious if you have four-dimensional intuition :D < 1269042396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also remember linking to some existing irssi themes that do it. < 1269042402 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1269042408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's the best one can hope for with a console UI though < 1269042440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could just truncate all nicks to, say, three characters. < 1269042443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that intuition for sums of numbers = n(n+1)/2 using a triangle < 1269042447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes < 1269042454 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE TRIANGLE NUMBERS!!!! < 1269042458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I remember doing this years ago < 1269042459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or one < 1269042461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or none < 1269042464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was trying out irssi < 1269042470 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T(n) = finite integral n < 1269042470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't like it < 1269042475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just be all ": foo" when I want to say foo to somebody < 1269042482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd be obvious from context < 1269042498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that thing you quoted can also be shown with finite integrals, of course < 1269042498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderfl < 1269042501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ful* < 1269042509 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes about 4D.. I think there would be an intepretation would be done in there < 1269042521 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I proved it using finite calculus :D < 1269042635 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I want to implement symbolic finite integrator < 1269042652 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course I would implement differentatiion as a subroutine) < 1269042656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2009-06-17 -- and it was about the very same bot, and the term "mirc-style" was used, and so on. We certainly are a boring lot. < 1269042672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a way to carve up an n*n*(n+1)*(n+1) hyper-rectangle so that each part is a cube, and there are two of each i^3 size < 1269042724 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, another thing I really want to do is make a 4D (or more D..) world that you can immerse yourself in :( < 1269042724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can you tell me *why* cross product isn't defined for anything but three and (according to wikipedia) seven dimensions. < 1269042725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with 1^3 in two opposite corners, perhaps < 1269042729 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a computer game typ thing < 1269042738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, if the answer is reasonably simple < 1269042742 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then we could intuit 4D+ < 1269042757 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have programs to visualize negatively curved 3D space < 1269042759 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not enoough < 1269042848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i cannot say i really understand why it's defined for seven, so... < 1269042866 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think it's because 7 = 8+1 < 1269042867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I didn't know it before checking on wikipedia < 1269042870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it probably has something to do with quaternions and octonions < 1269042872 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octonions < 1269042873 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269042884 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the octonions book talks about it < 1269042893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, why isn't cross products defined for most dimensionality? < 1269042904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269042907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand quaternions, except that SL uses them to represent rotations < 1269042907 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/octonions/node2.html < 1269042930 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there's not much to understrand, it's just a 4D number (like complex numbers are just 2D numbers) < 1269042933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you want it to be a _natural_ product, invariant under rotations < 1269042938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, was that link to me? < 1269042943 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1269042945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1269042956 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I meant to link this < 1269042957 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/octonions/node1.html < 1269042966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know quaternions, except I know what they are in theory and what they are used for < 1269042968 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Gibbs invented the modern notation for the dot product and cross product, Tait condemned it as a ``hermaphrodite monstrosity''. A war of polemics ensued, with luminaries such as Heaviside weighing in on the side of vectors. Ultimately the quaternions lost, and acquired a slight taint of disgrace from which they have never fully recovered < 1269042980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1269043004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: otherwise it's really ad hoc... < 1269043007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and why does this "desire" exclude some dimensionality? < 1269043048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but let me tell you can even normal vector product "feels" somewhat ad-hoc :P < 1269043055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote without understanding the wp pahe: "The nonexistence of such cross products of two vectors in other dimensions is related to the result that the only normed division algebras are the ones with dimension 1, 2, 4, and 8." < 1269043063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has it's uses though < 1269043080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what the heck does that mean < 1269043085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, people here probably have a good idea: which company would you all recommend I buy domain names from, and why? < 1269043085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gandi.net < 1269043090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decent & respectable with no shit < 1269043094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the cheapest < 1269043113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: note that the natural vector product in 3 dimensions comes from matrix determinants iirc < 1269043124 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have a clue what matrix determinant is... < 1269043141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, oh? I know it < 1269043150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, never read linear algebra < 1269043164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know *why* the determinant is defined as it is < 1269043177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know how it is defined and how to use it < 1269043177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if M is a 3*3 matrix with 3 rows v_1, v_2, v_3, then det M = (v_1 x v_2) . v_3 < 1269043194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right. < 1269043195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It also says even more complicatedly: "The cross product exists in dimensions 3 and 7 since one can always define a multiplication on a space of one higher dimension as above, and this space can be shown to be a normed division algebra. Such algebras only exist in dimensions 1, 2, 4, and 8, and if the product is derived for 0 or 1 dimensions it is a trivial product that is identically zero. It has been proved that it only exists in 3 and 7 dimensions.[2 < 1269043197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that < 1269043198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ais disappeared