< 1269561609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not qualified to guesstimate the lag, but I don't think arecord's been designed to minimize the time taken before the input sound is output into the "file". There's some --buffer-time option there, not sure how much that is related to writing. < 1269561629 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAD DOVE < 1269561631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT EAT < 1269561651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1269561672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a low-effort thing to try out, though, given that it's just two commands basically, and a single mixer change. < 1269561674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would be a PITA to change system a to use jack or system b to use pulseaudio though < 1269561675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1269561710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well what is the bug then? < 1269561717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I fixed this off by one error here < 1269561720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could work. And if it doesn't work out of the box, you might be able to use those arecord command line flags to make it better. < 1269561727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I might be going to sleep soon < 1269561748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, waiting for Deewiant to describe the bug first < 1269561767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: While I'm verifying this: are you going to do anything about the negative argument to q with efunge? < 1269561779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does efunge do with that? < 1269561782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested < 1269561787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't tested yet < 1269561787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no error logger present) error: "Error in process <0.0.0> with exit value: {badarg,[{erlang,halt,[-34]},{init,do_stop,2}]}\n" < 1269561798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I argue that it is probably undefined < 1269561805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that I might or might not do anything about it < 1269561812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I argue that such behaviour is a pain in the butt ;-P < 1269561827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I argue that no one sane would use a negative argument to q < 1269561839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, well, it is unlikely to be useful < 1269561840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can happen by accident < 1269561844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS won't support it < 1269561850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then the user finds it easily < 1269561851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it's done on purpose as well < 1269561856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do "return -1" and the like < 1269561856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1269561859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in C < 1269561861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to an OS < 1269561873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's equivalent < 1269561878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what am I supposed to do with it? take absolute value? < 1269561885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about the only thing I'm prepared to do < 1269561900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to emulated unsigned 8 bit < 1269561901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the docs will say what range of values it should take, and most likely the correct solution is mod 256 or something < 1269561913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mod 256 will yeild -1 < 1269561914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1269561917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is rem < 1269561944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stop(Status) -> void() < 1269561944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Types Status = int()>=0 | string() < 1269561945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1269561947 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I figured out why ALSA wasn't working: user 'Ilari' was not member of apporiate group. :-/ < 1269561948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from erlang docs < 1269561976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what I can do is: leave it as it is, take absolute value, truncate it to 0 < 1269561999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unless you can point me to where in the 98 specs it says I should take modulo and mess around with emulating unsigned 8 bit < 1269562005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O There's only one actual instruction in the Wireworld Computer? < 1269562021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm just saying that getting an error which I can't even ^C out of easily is a pain in the ass < 1269562026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My recommendation is absolute value < 1269562030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doube ^C works < 1269562033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely < 1269562054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^C in general doesn't work the way you prefer in erlang I suspect < 1269562215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verified that other issue: Mycology bug, not interpreter. < 1269562238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, arguably the negative argument to q *is* undefined though. And silently ignoring that is doing more bad than good < 1269562255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, causing possibly hard to debug issues < 1269562274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that when you're doing q you're at the point where you just want to quit and don't care about errors :-P < 1269562313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Java's System.exit doesn't throw InvalidParameterException ;-P < 1269562324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well what if someone implements /usr/bin/test in befunge? < 1269562331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you *care* about exit code < 1269562349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and you should be careful to get it right < 1269562357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1269562363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a bad example since it's really trivial: 0 or 1 < 1269562369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't want your system to silently swallow the error code < 1269562374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, okay what about fsck then < 1269562380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has highly complicated error codes iirc < 1269562381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know ~anything about fsck. < 1269562395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing fsck in Befunge you have other problems ;-P < 1269562410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "The exit code returned by fsck is the sum of the following conditions: " < 1269562411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1269562420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a bitmask < 1269562435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the values are 1 2 4 8 and so on < 1269562570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I think truncating to 0 is more DS9K and thus should be preferred < 1269562601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably efunge does have some DS9K traits, such as bignum in a language where that is not common) < 1269562608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it used to have i without o) < 1269562643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269562717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw does ccbi run on vxworks? < 1269562722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vxworks? < 1269562725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269562727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that < 1269562740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks < 1269562805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The libraries it depends on don't < 1269562827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc there is a (commerical only(?)) port of erlang to it < 1269562841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if efunge would run of it though < 1269562989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway it is likely some embedded controllers around you run vxworks < 1269563177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I *might* make efunge print a warning for negative parameters < 1269563178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1269563211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, perhaps clear screen, print drawing, enter line drawing mode, exit(0)? < 1269563212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1269563230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1269563295 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269563306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or, maybe we should block everything but SIGKILL? and if root mount an nfs mount, launch a DDoS on the server, and then try to read something from it < 1269563331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that will put it in uninterpretable sleep) < 1269563335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If efunge does that I'll disqualify it from Mycology results ;-P < 1269563356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, haha < 1269563454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pushed behaviour change for efunge < 1269563479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache effects might apply < 1269563554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't do the http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Network stuff < 1269563560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no capture source control < 1269563564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the system I want to forward from < 1269563577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only on the system I want to forward to < 1269563678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's curious. Though the mixer controls are horribly divergent across systems. < 1269563842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to do some .asoundrc trickery, though. < 1269563904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this "loopback soundcard" alsa module, http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Module-aloop < 1269563939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to use that, and have your game use one end of it for output, and arecord on the other end for feeding netcat. < 1269563965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.inzenet.org/~panard/hack_record_hda_sound also has some example bits, though it looks awfully complicated and uncommented. < 1269564082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also borderline possible that the very simple "dummy" soundcard actually would support the capture-mixer thing. < 1269564098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269564181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might just work. < 1269564207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's got the exact same capture and playback controls. < 1269564226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try playing something to the dummy soundcard and seeing if I can record it. < 1269564449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, it records noisy bursts of sound every 0.1 seconds, and silence for the most part. Heh, I wonder what's up with that. < 1269564602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it just drops what's written and generates (mostly) zeroes out. < 1269564758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1269564772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://dev.inzenet.org/~panard/hack_record_hda_sound also has some example bits, though it looks awfully complicated and uncommented. < 1269564779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is intel hda < 1269564807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most motherboard-integrated things are, though even the actual HDA chipsets differ. < 1269564825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed they do < 1269564844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to have the mixer-recording thing on this box either, though I seem to recall there was. < 1269564877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the "aloop" "soundcard" should work (not enabled in my kernel config, though), and alsa's "file" plugin might work too. < 1269564919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also (assuming the card does full-duplex right) there's the ridiculously low-tech way of looping back the line out to line in. :p < 1269564964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could check out the file plugin reference at http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html (pretty far down on the list). < 1269564992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can even pipe directly into a shell command. < 1269565004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should have less latency than trying to involve recording with arecord. < 1269565256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See for example Audacity's docs about it, http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Recording_audio_playing_on_the_computer#Using_the_ALSA_PCM_file < 1269565284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269565339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there even seems to be a "file" device. < 1269565346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"File device < 1269565347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file device is file plugin with null plugin as slave. The arguments (in order: FILE,FORMAT) specify filename and file format. < 1269565347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: < 1269565347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file:'/tmp/out.raw',raw < 1269565347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1269565445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer -ao alsa:device="file='testfile.raw',raw" testfile.wav seems to do a sensible thing, at least based on file sizes. < 1269565472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That = there after "file" is just mplayer's stupidity, you have to write the : as a = so that it won't interpret it as a parameter change.) < 1269565475 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-55-204-123.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269565530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in theory you should be able to just use file:'|/bin/nc -u server port',raw as the ALSA "device" specifier string for your game, without fiddling with any config files or anything. < 1269565559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course then you'll need to specify sample rates and types and so on on the listening side. < 1269565562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I wanted the whole system sound < 1269565568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just a single game < 1269565580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game was the primary example of programs in question < 1269565615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the built in sound wasn't so bad, and if I had a suitable cable, I could just feed one computer's line out into the line-in on the next < 1269565619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then you can use the example given in http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Recording_audio_playing_on_the_computer#Using_the_ALSA_PCM_file as "set the teeraw device as your default device with something like". < 1269565636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1269565652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the final example there as a full setup. < 1269565661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even has a command-piping thing. < 1269565688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269565714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually setting up jack on that ubuntu system might be *less* of a PITA XD < 1269565798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would I use on the listening side then? same as the original? < 1269565823 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1269565834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I'm not really an ALSA expert, but if you use an .asoundrc as something like http://pastebin.com/NfALSAK8 -- with the format "wav" thing -- you should be able to use the original nc | aplay thing. < 1269565880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should catch anything that's written using ALSA to the "default" PCM device. It might not catch programs that use the OSS-dsp emulation thing. And it might not work at all. < 1269565893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does that interact with that pulseaudio is in use on that computer? < 1269565934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know even less about pulse, but I guess it uses alsa libs to interact with the underlying hardware, and therefore might work. < 1269565949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it uses alsa to capture things then send it back to alsa < 1269565956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ALSA-directly-apps < 1269565957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end up < 1269565958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1269565969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->ALSA->pulse->ALSA < 1269566000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could get confused, I don't know. Pulse has that own networking thing too, but then you'd need pulseaudio also on the receiving side. < 1269566026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1269566033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it might be better to not set that "pipe-to-network" device as the default pcm one, but instead configure pulse to feed things into it. < 1269566038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the receiving side uses jack/pure-ALSA < 1269566081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also a bit concerned about what the "netcat | aplay" will do on the receiving side if the sample rates on the sending side change. < 1269566091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch indeed < 1269566121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing it fiddling like this is a bit awkwardly manual. If you seriously want all the sound, and keep it set up semi-permanently, I might go with the "just set up jack on Ubuntu too and use netjack" solution. < 1269566148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, jack isn't really suitable for my laptop in *normal* use < 1269566181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I could use jack alongside pure alsa without problems on my desktop, it has hardware mixer < 1269566185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has an sb live < 1269566231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yes this is semi-permanently as in, it will be used a lot but not all the time < 1269566259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you configure jack to only have the into-network thing, no "actual" direct-sound use at all... well, I'm not sure how to make the rest of the system use that, then. < 1269566269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll need some sleep now. < 1269566323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269566328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your help < 1269566527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to have a setup like this for my laptop too, but (since it runs OS X most of the time) I finally gave up and just bought that USB digital-output sound-stick I mentioned, and connect it to the front panel inputs of the amplifier when necessary. (The alternative would've been to feed the digital audio over LAN to one of these Real Computers that are permanently hooked to the amplifier.) < 1269566542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Networked audio seems to be a bit nontrivial. < 1269566547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away now for real, night.) < 1269566634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1269568607 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1269570502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1269571548 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1269571667 0 :augur!~augur@mmount-193.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1269571975 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269572254 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269572518 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1269572548 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1269573095 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1269574654 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: . < 1269576924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to think of a full version of his language that isn't overly influenced by Haskell
< 1269576935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antiskell. < 1269576947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every decision made by Haskell, it chooses the opposite. < 1269576969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode support? Nah, we're going for binary coded decimal EBDIC < 1269576998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, the EBDIC is encoded into decimal, which is then binary coded.) < 1269577018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strict typing? Nah. We're going for /dev/urandom typing. < 1269577042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And every statement is implicitly wrapped in unsafePerformIO. < 1269577072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1269577080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you catch my idea earlier? < 1269577090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the ones that are implicitly wrapped in unsafePerformIO . unsafeIntersperseIO . return < 1269577098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1269577130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, rather than pure types, there's "datapacks" < 1269577169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants Antiskell to become real
< 1269577186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although obviously, it can't be a perfect opposite < 1269577216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it would not be TC, and would not be able to do any IO, contrary to pikhq's earlier statements < 1269577222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upi < 1269577225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I think "opposite" is ill-defined < 1269577227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upi? < 1269577233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need an anticomputer for that. < 1269577271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is no requirement for unsafePerformIO to do much. < 1269577335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I suggest that all statements except for undefined be equivalent to bottom. < 1269577343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1269577345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in confusing circumstances. < 1269577359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my father needed to ask me a question < 1269577388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Antihaskell solve the halting problem? < 1269577392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, instead of types, there's "datapacks". All UDTs are actually datapacks. < 1269577447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: GHC can, so Antiskell cannot. < 1269577449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a given value can possess any number of datapacks; the union of the packs it has could be said to represent its actual type. Some datapacks could require other datapacks to exist on the type (*coughinheritancecough*) < 1269577449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1269577458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait what? < 1269577483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just a joke. Compile "main = main". ;) < 1269577513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too lazy to bother, I take it the compiler sees that somehow? < 1269577525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels ignored
< 1269577552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It results in an error. "infinite loop" or some such. < 1269577611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1269577649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNIP < 1269577673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's working < 1269577677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit < 1269577682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to investigate other causes of not being listened to
< 1269577710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best thing to do when someone pings is to ignore that >.> [Ok, so I was being mean] < 1269577738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically values have multiple types? < 1269577742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1269578605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, sorry, I got distracted again < 1269578657 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would also be "type patterns" which could be used to match against types; e.g. {Int~Nil} means "Int < 1269578666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*means "Int or Nil, but not both" < 1269578674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would be the implementation of a nullable value < 1269578706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1269578710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1269578795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{Int|Nil} or {Int&Nil} could probably also exist (I may choose to add a way to make datapacks mutually exclusive), but, by convention, would be pretty useless < 1269578802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally type inference would drive a lot of the system < 1269578991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real power, though, is in expressing reality better than most languages < 1269579036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how you manipulate an Int+String
< 1269579050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it would have both an int value and a string value independently < 1269579069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1269579087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geek example: A Magic card has a type; each type has a list of allowable subtypes for that type < 1269579119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Magic card may have multiple types < 1269579158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misunderstood "Magic card" for a second
< 1269579182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points out "for a second" before coppro or anyone else elaborates about Magic
< 1269579192 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1269579193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1269579197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you understand now < 1269579217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私 見今 Oerjan ! < 1269579227 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd express this by creating a datapack for each list of subtypes, and then add these to the card value. Since they aren't mutually exclusive, you can have as many as you like < 1269579232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :正 今, too! < 1269579266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not a friend of people who greet me with unicode < 1269579274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1269579282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :今日, Oerjan. How are 前? < 1269579297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like question marks. < 1269579387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh 本当? < 1269579429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts about my idea? < 1269579442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, almost _no one_ here understands japanese. showing it off all the time is just annoying. < 1269579485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if i could see it properly.) < 1269579508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. When was the last time I used code-points out of ASCII in this room, anyways? < 1269579520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 minutes 2 seconds ago < 1269579531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Before oerjan just entered. < 1269579539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1269579547 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last week I think? < 1269579575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please ping me with any comments you may have; it's webcomic time < 1269579648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also. Sorry. I've been cramming kanji for the past couple months. And for some reason, I felt like using kanji in English. I'm going to blame my lack of sleep for that... < 1269579676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll blame my current grumpiness, then :) < 1269579687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y? < 1269579780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for random characters: 亜sdtf日小田鵜fhgpqeかsfqwさkじょ９tqぁsづてょdヴい < 1269580143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in other words, a value can possess multiple types at once <-- they're called intersection types iirc. they were important for fundamental lambda calculus in a book i looked in (barendregt?) < 1269580203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he can use a cryonics article for his psychology assignmnet
< 1269580222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have intersection types + a special "catch-all" type omega, then you have a simple type system in which all normalizable lambda expressions can be typed, iirc < 1269580252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without omega, you need strongly normalizable, iirc < 1269580314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and omega can occur only on the left side of -> or something, so things don't get to use just it for trivial typing < 1269580436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for the name < 1269580475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think the types may even have been preserved under reduction, both ways < 1269580494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see much that looks like a useful language with them though < 1269580539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: higher order functions, if you use a polymorphic function on two different types < 1269580598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a special case < 1269580606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, doesn't apply to all types < 1269580635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're probably not practical, type inference is probably impossible and forall types with type variables like in haskell/ML are more practical < 1269580697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of what I see intersection types used for is type inference < 1269580724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what I'd be doing is more like type unionization < 1269580844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1269580852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1269581606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1269581751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1269581760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:20:28] oh well < 1269581802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that was intended as a "conversation over" mark :P < 1269581809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1269581846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it's that time of night again < 1269581859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not the vampires < 1269581890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I really should go to bed, but I don't < 1269581942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse, I have an excuse < 1269581970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bed is haunted! < 1269581993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's Hansard isn't out yet < 1269582055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a principled follower of the british parliament, i take < 1269582092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be canada < 1269582173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In one instance, during a Liberal filibuster in the Canadian Senate, Senator Philippe Gigantès was accused of reading one of his books only so that he could get the translation for free through the Hansard." :D < 1269582256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadian in this case < 1269582281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Beautiful. < 1269582502 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1269583587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/719/ I've never had any of these dreams :( < 1269583886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had few dreams that I can actually recall. < 1269583891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have car dreams either. might have _something_ to do with the fact i don't drive :D < 1269583920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe an occasional dream as passenger < 1269583988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i _have_ dreamed about my teeth falling out D: < 1269584768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1269585494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1269586067 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1269587655 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1269588862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan: pikhq, almost _no one_ here understands japanese. showing it off all the time is just annoying." <<< no it's not! < 1269588975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269589010 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1269589179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it's less common for me to roll all the time, what's more common is i jump or something and realize i'm not falling down, but just rising and rising hundreds of meters first < 1269589195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dreams < 1269589218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't remember my dreams < 1269589222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i become lucid quite often, but i still haven't mastered not waking up almost instantly after < 1269589244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I can really remember is that they tend to be things I don't want to remember for one reason or another < 1269589254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually manage to have sex with someone for a few seconds, but then it fades away < 1269589268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't you want to remember something < 1269589295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's that I'm really good at getting into really awkward situations in dreams < 1269589299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't quite remember < 1269589312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol right < 1269589360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's not scariness though < 1269589424 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the few good dreams I ever remember are only even vaguely remembered because they're the ones I get woken up in the middle of < 1269589604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, finally, Hansard's out < 1269589610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can sleep < 1269589665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay hansard < 1269589690 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269589878 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1269589957 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, an MP quoted MacBeth < 1269590055 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269590399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1269590400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1269590540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, this trade agreement with Colombia is causing quite a stir... 30 hours of debate already < 1269590557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT it boils down to we should/shouldn't consort with the evils < 1269590567 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1269590681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil things are wrong < 1269590828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the government says it hopes to encourage the Colombian government to clean up < 1269590833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole debate is tl;dr < 1269590996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I love this country < 1269590999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/03/25/prisoners-pensions025.html < 1269591021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 life sentences and we still give him 13k a year < 1269592324 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1269593509 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269594018 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269595466 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269596412 0 :MigoMipo!~3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-caqssswwcntsfsmo JOIN :#esoteric < 1269597182 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269597191 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1269597207 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269597384 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1269600436 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1269601563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1269601625 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269602123 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-103-118.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269602428 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1269602451 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269607923 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@213.249.12.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269608251 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1269609217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1269609256 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269609762 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1269611224 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269613407 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1269615757 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1269618486 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-1-143.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269618818 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1269619562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1269619758 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1269619761 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1269619761 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1269621349 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1269621963 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269622229 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269622930 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269623073 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-1-143.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269623431 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269624250 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269624310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kikcking router in shins = WORKING! < 1269624319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :routers have shins? < 1269624329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do now. < 1269625537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define mephitic < 1269625591 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* miasmic: of noxious stench from atmospheric pollution \ [15]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Avernus was an ancient name for a crater near Cumae (Cuma), Italy in the Region of Campania west of Naples. It is approximately 2 miles in circumference. Within the crater is Lake Avernus (Lago d'Averno). < 1269626452 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1269626663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Kikcking router in shins = WORKING! <-- wow < 1269626676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would that be in like the ethernet sockets? < 1269626716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1269626722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You let it grow legs. < 1269626729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1269626732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ? < 1269626784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just kicking it? < 1269626790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more steps in between?! < 1269626807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you kick it. < 1269626809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I newer knew it was _that_ simple < 1269627064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1269627234 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1269628263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269628606 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1269629009 0 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-16-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1269629790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc4-sgyl29-2-0-cust108.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269629902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CURSE YOU, TIME ZONE DIFFERENCES! < 1269629972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, you cursed the time zone differences! < 1269629987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i predict they will take a horrible revenge! < 1269630012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before this weekend is over, even! < 1269630015 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269630118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1269630402 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1269630521 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves when he randomly disconnects!
< 1269630525 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love it love it love it! < 1269630546 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1269630898 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-78.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1269630964 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269630964 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1269631746 0 :dixon!~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon JOIN :#esoteric < 1269631818 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Sgeo < 1269631823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1269631831 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up? < 1269631854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much < 1269631859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about cryonics a bit < 1269631931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1269631940 0 :dixon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... cool. < 1269631944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me as far too faith-based. < 1269631989 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notion of freezing is faith-based? < 1269632027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the notion that medical technology will be able to revive you. < 1269632056 0 :dixon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's cold. < 1269632061 0 :dixon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctors are smart. < 1269632073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well. Faith IN TECHNOLOGY! < 1269632075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1269632083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But dammit, they're doctors, not miracle workers! < 1269632101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Jim! < 1269632151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, don't do it this way: http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html < 1269632186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious, delicious cryonic nitrogen. < 1269632190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the Darwin awards. < 1269632196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tale for every situation. < 1269632221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it seems the character encoding doesn't work properly... < 1269632227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one was on today's reddit frontpage < 1269632230 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1269633130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he never had to use Firefox
< 1269633166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : before this weekend is over, even! <-- oh no < 1269633170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end of the world is near < 1269633178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stockpiles stuff
< 1269633189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stockpiles AnMasters
< 1269633194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1269633198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there is just one of me < 1269633213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't stockpile anything that there is just one of < 1269633469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he could try folding you < 1269633754 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1269633786 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-184.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1269633891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh? < 1269633905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how would that result in more than one of me? < 1269634041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always doubting are you < 1269634053 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just here to buy some soy sauce < 1269634095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes he can program despite using a trackpad
< 1269634101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too lazy to sit up at the table next to my bed < 1269634155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes! < 1269634186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why do you need anything but a printer (alternatively a monitor) and a keyboard? < 1269634201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: old meme which i've never heard before is old < 1269634228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to move cursor for cut/paste < 1269634276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wait, you use a printer rather than a monitor? < 1269634303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no < 1269634308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did I say I did? < 1269634329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was your first alternative, above < 1269634333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, mhm, I never found programming without a mouse to be a problem < 1269634356 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1269634360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes. I wish I had one of those oldstyle hard copy terminals < 1269634362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't use a mouse. admittedly he doesn't program much either.
< 1269634379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I use a mouse when image editing for example < 1269634390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trackpoint really isn't very good for that < 1269634396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a touchpad even less so < 1269634409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269634421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in general touchpad are useless I find < 1269634428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trackpoint is fairly usable but a mouse is better < 1269634437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for programming I find I only use the keyboard < 1269634462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls nearly 30 years ago, when my dad borrowed home such a terminal from the job
< 1269634483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I would love to see one in "reality" < 1269634518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we connected to the mainframe via the phone, and used BASIC on it < 1269634527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269634544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I was rather thinking about connecting to something at MIT that ran lisp < 1269634602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if the internet had reached scandinavia yet... < 1269634649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1269634689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, actually Norway was the first place in Europe (and iirc outside US too, but not completely sure about that) to get ARPANET < 1269634703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does ring a bell < 1269634881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rings a bell for Oerjan's skae
< 1269634883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sake, even. < 1269634927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rings a bell for pikhq's skate
< 1269634973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rings a bell for AnMaster's steak
< 1269635003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stakes oerjan with a very pointed bell
< 1269635011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1269635038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made of silver. < 1269635045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1269635077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, it offers both werewolf and vampire protection that way. < 1269635088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains.. < 1269635104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is effective against zombies? < 1269635124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lurks toward AnMaster
< 1269635128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives oerjan some plush brains
< 1269635138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(says made in china on them) < 1269635170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION beams away to a badly rendered space ship (TOS)
< 1269635181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks they taste like soy
< 1269635211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1269635216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reverses the polarity
< 1269635230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh that made it go faster < 1269635231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1269635241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trange < 1269635243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange* < 1269635247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is alternating current < 1269635305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a phase(r) < 1269635318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1269635324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the warp drive? < 1269635331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was what you reversed polarity of < 1269635336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current reversal < 1269635337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mains to it < 1269635390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversing the polarity should be a pi radians face shift, no? < 1269635393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phase < 1269635446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that only makes sense assuming sinusoidal current < 1269635467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought alternating current was sinusoidal
< 1269635472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often is < 1269635475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may not be < 1269635496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what matters is that it is alternating. < 1269635524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1269635556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but sinusoidal is the far most common one I think < 1269635666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm surprised you didn't ask me what I meant with alternating < 1269635671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I shall tell you anyway < 1269635690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1269635691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means it oscillates across zero. < 1269635709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have square wave shape for example < 1269635715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or triangular < 1269635723 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1269635743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pentagonal. < 1269635749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1269635755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how would that look like < 1269635761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time imagining it < 1269635766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, hexagonal makes more sense. < 1269635773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with triangular I mean \/\/\/ style < 1269635779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1269635779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /_\ < 1269635789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that wouldn't make any sense) < 1269635801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps pentagonal would be like triangular, but with less sloping. < 1269635817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps the wave would go back in time at some points. < 1269635868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw in electrical engineering it seems common to mix radians and degrees. I have seen stuff like: u(t) = 4sin(50*2*pi*t + 45°) stuff, where (if your unicode is still broken) the thing after 45 is a degree sign < 1269635901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm < 1269635917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1269635919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ \ < 1269635920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ / < 1269635922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / < 1269635923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ < 1269635925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somesuch. < 1269635926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1269635937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much space? Sorry. < 1269635942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is not a function of either x or y < 1269635943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1269635960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The drawing is awful... < 1269635963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1269635963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree signs are fine < 1269635995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but mixing them in one expression? Since the "50*2*pi" stuff is in radians < 1269636012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a signal generator at our electronics lab that reset the wave shape (from triangle to sine or the other way around) when you changed some other settings. Ruined our otherwise accurate magnetic field -related measurements, though we got the report accepted by doing some integration; the change in shape translated into a fixed fudge factor in whatever it was we were supposed to measure. < 1269636014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is a triangle wave a function of x or y, unless you use stuff like absolute values. < 1269636045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually it might even have been square.) < 1269636050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh also that would be: 4*e^(j45°) (you can usually ignore the factor that t is multiplied with if you are working with a single frequency iirc) < 1269636053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
< 1269636064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolute values are perfectly good functions! < 1269636066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there are two things to annoy you there. j for imaginary unit < 1269636068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whimpers.
< 1269636071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and degrees in exponential form < 1269636098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even differentiate functions with absolutes? < 1269636110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ° = pi/180 < 1269636118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, everywhere except in the point 0 < 1269636128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wherever the tip is < 1269636130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exactly logically inconsistent < 1269636145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, it would obviously not be in 0 if you did |x+1|) < 1269636163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if we have y=|x|, what is dy/dx? < 1269636166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not into functions, no. who says all functions have to be differentiable? < 1269636184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one, but it irks me. < 1269636187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, would you treat division as a function then? < 1269636189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1269636191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/x perhaps < 1269636195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes lets take that one < 1269636199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is something called distributions, corresponding to such differentials and stuff < 1269636209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you more or less indicated above that sin() is a function from your point of view < 1269636218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now differentiate sin(1/x) :P < 1269636237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I want to know the value of it in x=0 < 1269636249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of (dx/dy that is) < 1269636257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's undefined at 0. < 1269636267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and so is the limit < 1269636277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: more importantly, absolute values are continuous and so triangle waves have perfectly good fourier series < 1269636291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The square wave shape is, I think, even worse than the triangle. At least the / and \ slopes of a triangle have a different derivatives; for the square it's just 0 everywhere where it plays nice, and then there's that horreeble jump. < 1269636340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed the differential of a triangle wave is intuitively a square one... < 1269636352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah nice < 1269636437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the pentagonal wave, what's specifically wrong with it? < 1269636505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know about this stuff. < 1269636507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it has multiple values at a single time? < 1269636507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nothing really < 1269636513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what fizzie said < 1269636521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so does y=sqrt(x). < 1269636526 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1269636527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no it doesn't < 1269636532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sqrt is always the positive one < 1269636540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why you put the "plus or minus" in front of it < 1269636551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't you wouldn't need that "plus or minus" symbol < 1269636555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin-1x? < 1269636563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1269636570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inverse sin? < 1269636570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin of what? < 1269636572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not a function < 1269636578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a pentagonal wave? < 1269636586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, inverse of sinus is only defined for a limited range < 1269636587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we could invent one < 1269636597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and it only maps to a limited range < 1269636599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, I just thought of it in a fit of insanity. < 1269636618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have been *lied* to, then. < 1269636637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it is done in order to make it a function < 1269636665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, however in calculations like sin(x) = 4 you need to remember the extra posibilities < 1269636670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus would write something like < 1269636681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1269636683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work < 1269636684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could call the pretty boring _/''\_ -style wave, with the slope angle of 72 degrees, a pentagonal wave; it's not like the triangle wave has more than two edges of the triangle either. < 1269636686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change that equation to: < 1269636693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin(x) = 0.5 < 1269636758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = arcsin(0.5) + pi * n (n in Z) < 1269636759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1269636770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what the repetition rate was < 1269636793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's pi. < 1269636797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1269636808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get negative value there, mhm < 1269636813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the "I think" after everything I say just be implicit? < 1269636814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something is off < 1269636843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2pi, but you need two values in that interval < 1269636876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and pi-x < 1269636880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1269636891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was it cos that had the simpler one? < 1269636910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and -x < 1269636951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin (-x) = -sin x, cos (-x) = cos x < 1269636959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1269636967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, It isn't something I use very often < 1269636985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1269636986 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1269637171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I find the difference between mathematics and applied mathematics amusing sometimes < 1269637186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like math teachers telling us to always remember the "plus or minus" when taking square root < 1269637230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you actually use it you quite often don't need to remember that, because one is absurd (like you can't have a negative ratio between the number of turns in a transformer) < 1269637273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as you're positive about it < 1269637278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1269637324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sin x = 4 "works" if you let x be complex; sin(pi/2 + i*arccosh(4)) = 4. < 1269637334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You are charged with crimes against the English language. < 1269637338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, haven't dealt with that stuff at all < 1269637345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or that you don't actually need to solve most things exactly, numerically is good enough as long as you have enough decimals (of course deciding what is enough is another question) < 1269637432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as long as it is a positive charge < 1269637452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MWAHAHA) < 1269637460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there was a lovely joke in the Concrete Mathematics book. < 1269637473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think almost all (I don't know if this is in the mathematical sense or not) math teachers I ever had have hated approximate answers. They seem to prefer 4*sqrt(2)/44 rather than something like ~0,115 < 1269637506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ais523 once complained after i had made so many puns he became physically ill < 1269637507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the latter actually tells you a lot more when reading it < 1269637525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has student-provided comments scribbled all over the margins; now, in one place the actual book text says something about "looking at sums that involve actual numbers: [a sum expression with j, k and N in it]" and the comment in the margin there was "Caution! The authors of this book seem to think that j, k and N are 'actual numbers'." < 1269637531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can't tell from just looking at "4*sqrt(2)/44" that it is "0.1 and a bit" < 1269637560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when was that? < 1269637570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's sqrt(2)/11, you infidel! < 1269637576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few weeks ago? < 1269637582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wonderful < 1269637592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, whatever, to me it is ~ 0.115 < 1269637615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in practise your measurement tools probably didn't give you that many decimals even < 1269637625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should positively (no pun intended) love floating-point numbers, given that they're inexact all the time. < 1269637653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most multimeters I have seen tend to give you 3 or 4 significant digits < 1269637675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, some of them seem to vary and be inconsistent even within the same range, but that is another, weird, story) < 1269637812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen the *same* multimeter display, without me touching anything on it displaying: 1.010 V, 1.01 V, 1010 mV < 1269637828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1269637834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all I did was vary the amplitude on the signal generator used < 1269637849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to approach the values from different directions < 1269637864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, going from just above downwards or just below upwards < 1269637909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of the delay in switching between V and mV could explain part of it < 1269637913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What's wrong with surds? < 1269637920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 1.010 vs. 1.01 < 1269637924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what < 1269637925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1269637953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The giving of numbers with square roots and fractions unevaluated. < 1269637984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, it doesn't really give you any sort of feeling for what size the value actually is < 1269638008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but it's *exact*, and any calculations you make with it are also exact. < 1269638023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you tell what 476531489094403/6171473383353049 actually is < 1269638036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like just from looking at it < 1269638044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1269638047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1269638054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 476531489094403/6171473383353049 < 1269638067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, where's fungot? < 1269638068 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.721518987342642e-2 < 1269638072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can't really tell which fraction is largest if given two ridiculous fractions like that < 1269638086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really depends what you're using it for. < 1269638094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't you set up a supervisor for it? < 1269638104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I just thought about it. :p < 1269638105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that might be erlang speak < 1269638106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halfway through a calculation it's probably better to leave it as a surd. < 1269638135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw I doubt you can simplify that fraction < 1269638139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, since both are prime < 1269638143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might be wrong < 1269638158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen "supervisor" used also in a daemony context. < 1269638163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1269638167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you possibly simplify a fraction of two primes? < 1269638175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes probably, unless that means you end typoing stuff because the expression takes up two lines < 1269638176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, my hostmask is again wrongly. < 1269638182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1269638184 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269638205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know, I'm pretty sure you can't but I might have forgotten something < 1269638211 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1269638236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not identified to services? < 1269638244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just edit the host mask in fungot then < 1269638244 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it just wasn't my brand of humor. < 1269638260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Two primes by definition share no common factors, and as such no fraction with them as numerator and denominator can be simplified. < 1269638263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you are now < 1269638265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1269638266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1269638282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, perhaps you could break out a root or something silly like that? < 1269638328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can obviously divide top and bottom by anything, but you wouoldn't exactly be simplifying. < 1269638330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably can't what with roots not being rational though < 1269638342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1269638362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway one thing I do agree with mathematicians about is units < 1269638367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Ratio; main = print (476531489094403/6171473383353049::Rational) < 1269638371 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :476531489094403%6171473383353049 < 1269638376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, base units is best < 1269638391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that means 5*10^-9 F rather than 5 nF < 1269638406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is so easy to forget in your calculations < 1269638411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F? < 1269638417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, farad isn't it? < 1269638436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1269638447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, capacitors. And yes the usual range tends to require you to use *10^-something for them < 1269638452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an awful second I though you meant Fahrenheit. < 1269638459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it capacitance where the old-fashioned name for a picofarad was μμF, the micro-microfarad? < 1269638467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I never seen that < 1269638493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A micro-microfarad (μμF) that can be found in older texts is the equivalent of a picofarad." -- An unsourced statement, though. < 1269638494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have seen nF, µF mostly. pF (?) I don't remember < 1269638503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but we're not so old. < 1269638504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wait < 1269638509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what pH is < 1269638519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pico-henry right? < 1269638522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1269638529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1269638531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or potential of hydrogen. < 1269638538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1269638545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I prefer picohenry < 1269638568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but yes pH is usually the "is it acid or basic" thingy < 1269638568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is henry, who is very small < 1269638583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, henry is a unit for inductors < 1269638590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it measures, um, something < 1269638596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to calculate with it thought! < 1269638599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though* < 1269638600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductance, presumably. < 1269638603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and 1 kB is one kilobel. < 1269638604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah yes < 1269638611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bel? < 1269638620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1269638620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The B in dB (decibel). < 1269638622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in dB < 1269638629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed it must be < 1269638632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bel an SI unit? < 1269638640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's not exactly, but a bit. < 1269638643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awfully loud noise I guess < 1269638658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: At least it's on this "Units outside the SI that are accepted for use with the SI" table, but not on the actual "Units of SI" one. < 1269638658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 10 dB. < 1269638663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think units is bad: < 1269638664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad* < 1269638666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have: dB < 1269638667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want: < 1269638667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Definition: deci B = 0.8 bit < 1269638669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1269638675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a kilobel should be enough to shatter the universe < 1269638682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just entering a unit is supposed to show it's definition) < 1269638688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but decibit is just silly < 1269638716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, since dB is logarithmic.... kB would be horribly extremely large < 1269638719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Depends on your reference level, of course. < 1269638728 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1269638730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even outside sound you don't get tha < 1269638731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1269638736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1269638749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, [citation needed] < 1269638753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw dB it is used in electricity too < 1269638762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff like amplifiers of signals < 1269638770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may or may not be sound < 1269638775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use it for everything where there's a ratio of two things. < 1269638843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is a bel even defined? < 1269638845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a kilobel is 10^1000 times as loud as 0 bel, that's many orders of magnitude larger than the number of atoms in the visible universe < 1269638865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20*log_10(amplification in electronic amplifier) wasn't it? < 1269638868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something silly like that < 1269638886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the thing in dB < 1269638976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For sound, it's 20*log_10(p_rms/p_ref), where p_rms is the sound pressure level you see, and p_ref is something like 20 µPa (according to Wikipedia); that's around the threshold for hearing in the usual circumstances. < 1269639024 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1269639060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier kind of stuff. Had a course that included calculation on such recently at university < 1269639103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing was calculating on "ideal" such < 1269639113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you deal with ideal resistors or inductors or whatever < 1269639133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the stuff quite would pass the scrutiny of a mathematician < 1269639171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with Visual Basic? < 1269639187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it referred to all over the place, but what is it acually used for? < 1269639187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1269639199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1269639210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual basic? isn't that a shitty language that microsoft made < 1269639210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 10^500 (because the ratio is taken of the squares of the pressure levels) times p_ref would be "just" 2*10^495 Pascals. < 1269639227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have no idea of what the usual scale is for pascals < 1269639230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically visual < 1269639232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really deal with sound stuff < 1269639245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't you do some sound stuff at university at some point? < 1269639258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that your main area even? < 1269639262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whence "Visual"? < 1269639270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, everything fizzie did was unsound < 1269639272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no idea < 1269639278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe because it had GUI stuff? < 1269639282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with Visual C++. < 1269639294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, iirc that is just a product line of microsoft < 1269639296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1269639297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pascal is a derived unit, 1 Pa = 1 N/m^2. Just imagine some 10^494 kilos of stuff on top of you to get a "gut feeling" of that magnitude. < 1269639315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why "Vista", why "XP", why "excel" < 1269639325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is a reasonable answer to any of those < 1269639330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Visual Basic, compared to Basic, is indeed pretty Visual; at least the development environment is (or used to be) pretty GUI-form-editor-oriented. < 1269639342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's shitty about it? < 1269639344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which one they named first, though; Visual Basic or the Visual Studio line of stuff. < 1269639352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1269639365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BASIC rots your brain; Visual Basic is bad for the eyes", like they say. < 1269639378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Why? < 1269639389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no experience in any BASIC stuff. < 1269639390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you might as well ask why COBOL is bad < 1269639403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want to use a timer somewhere, you put an invisible timer element in a GUI window somewhere. < 1269639408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the same reason, but equally hard to explain) < 1269639410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nerds obsessing over minutiae? < 1269639410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gut feeling seems to be in a black hole right now < 1269639420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1269639429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that depends on density < 1269639440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sounds like delphi? < 1269639589 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1269639656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My exposure to Delphi is minimal, but yes, I think there are similarities. < 1269639674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1269639702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was raised on Pascal! < 1269639717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple script first for me. Yes I know, horrible < 1269639717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they've sensiblized the language (and the environment) at least somewhat for the current, "VB.NET" generation. < 1269639720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I didn't like it very much. < 1269639723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dephi, then sane stuff < 1269639727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delphi* < 1269639730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write web stuff with it nowadays, for example. < 1269639741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could in theory before I gues < 1269639744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess* < 1269639747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had stdio < 1269639759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I changed schools, and had to use JavaScript. < 1269639774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well.. you could declare win32 api components, though the FFI was a bit limited. < 1269639787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269639795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what I meant was a cgi < 1269639869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't know how that stuff works in Windows. I don't recall ever seeing a Visual Basic "console application", but it is possible it could make one. < 1269639985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even if you use the Win32 API for writing into the console screen, Your application won't work, because the Visual Basic compiler always creates GUI application and it doesn't provide any compiler options for changing it to console application." < 1269640002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is, however, a third-party binary-mangling tool that translates a GUI PE executable to a console one. < 1269640036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers.
< 1269640047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh sounds fun < 1269640065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be a one-byte change. < 1269640078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betwixt what and what? < 1269640092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "GUI mode" PE executable and a "console mode" one. < 1269640102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that quote from btw? < 1269640113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.nirsoft.net/vb/console_application_visual_basic.html < 1269640164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be a bit outdated too. Probably it's about as easy to write a console app with VB.NET as with any other .NET language. < 1269640193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers even more.
< 1269640279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Error Resume Next" is a nice one-line summary of a Visual Basic mindset. < 1269640294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269640302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so it just skips errors? < 1269640302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean? < 1269640315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like /INTERCAL/? < 1269640335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why a regex? < 1269640342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means pretty much what it says. If there ever is a runtime error detected by the system, it is "handled" by resuming execution on the next line. < 1269640343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or what the heck where those / / ?) < 1269640350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be italics. < 1269640357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1269640393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other alternative, mind you, is "on error goto x", where x is a line number. (Or a line label, which sounds more likely nowadays.) < 1269640399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also iirc intercal doesn't do that sort of thing < 1269640412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather it gives you a cryptic error message < 1269640422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just skipped them. < 1269640434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's how you write comments. < 1269640438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that yes < 1269640443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is syntax errors iirc < 1269640493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't skip all syntax errors, but ignores syntax errors in lines that are otherwise skipped (due to starting, e.g. with DO NOT) < 1269640507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1269640547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. < 1269640695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specific lines can have skipping turned on/off with the ABSTAIN/REINSTATE commands < 1269640701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The statement DO ABSTAIN FROM ABSTAINING is perfectly valid, as is DO ABSTAIN FROM REINSTATING (although this latter is not usually recommended). However, the statement DO ABSTAIN FROM GIVING UP is not accepted, even though DON'T GIVE UP is." < 1269640705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my favourite sentences. < 1269640710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a pair of 'em. < 1269640743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269640781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the non-sequiturs too, though. < 1269640792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal needs to be... more self-modifying < 1269640808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"--, where exp represents any expression (except colloquial and facial expressions), --" < 1269640815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1269640848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea a while back for an "exclude" system. < 1269640850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No other form of argument is permitted. For example, the following is an invalid argument: [an invalid proof of x != 0, y != 0 => x + y = 0]." < 1269640882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherein one would export a function to another module of code, rather than importing it. < 1269640968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, argument to what? < 1269640990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For REINSTATE, in this case. < 1269641002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also were those [ ] there in the original or was that your summary of it? < 1269641009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my summary. < 1269641012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1269641027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original has a nice proof that relies on the ambiguities of English. < 1269641032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link to this? < 1269641062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/s04.html has one HTMLization, section 4.4.10. < 1269641127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1269641152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hardly see any line numbers around nowadays either, which is a shame. There's something so pure about an integer label, instead of some silly thing like a name. < 1269641170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When ais523 comes in, link him to http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bioxv/while_thinking_about_turing_machines_i_found_that/c0mypya < 1269641177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even TI-BASIC uses 2 letter labels < 1269641181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 2 letters < 1269641186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if numbers work < 1269641194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have my TI-83+ handy atm < 1269641370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Aren't TC languages effectively equivalent to a Turing machine? < 1269641408 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalently effective < 1269641445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-86's TI-BASIC allows pretty long labels, you just use the "Lbl ABCD" command, and then "Goto ABCD" later. I'm not sure what the length limit there is; four seems to work just fine. < 1269641456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the guy complaining about? < 1269641528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complaints. < 1269641578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empirical tests seems to suggest that "Lbl" accepts labels up to 8 characters long. < 1269641695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE ABSTAIN FROM COMING FROM < 1269641707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. INTERCAL. < 1269641778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on TI-83+ it was 2 letters < 1269641780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Presumably that afects TCness. < 1269641914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't have the 83+ ROM in the TI emulator in my phone, so can't verify that; I'll take your word for it. < 1269642032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unless you can create labels on the fly (and somehow use that for memory), more than 8 characters seems unlikely to help for TCness < 1269642043 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burghgrph'unrbafpun < 1269642069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 2 letters are probably enough < 1269642090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I do agree. It's got arrays (well, vectors and matrices), but I think those have specified fixed size limits. < 1269642131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i meant that remark for Phantom_Hoover < 1269642142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thanks for clarification < 1269642213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Surely a finite number of levels would restrict something important? < 1269642237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you would only be able to nest loops up to a certain number. < 1269642275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if _everything_ is finite, yes. but you only need one mechanism for getting unbounded memory, labels don't need to be it < 1269642325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1269642588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even unlimited label size won't help with that as long as you have fixed labels in each single program < 1269642613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... < 1269642624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has strings, and the manual doesn't especially speak of length limits, but of course in practice it does have limits there. < 1269642634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I don't have the 83+ ROM in the TI emulator in my phone, so can't verify that; I'll take your word for it. <-- on... your... phone?! < 1269642636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1269642651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I do have a ti-83+ emulator somewhere around here anyway < 1269642695 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Mobile has a TI 83-89 emulator < 1269642697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I have AlmostTI (which does 85, 86, 82, 83, 83+, 73, 83+se, and maybe 84+ and 84+se) on the phone. < 1269642709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't do 89, though. < 1269642732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://fms.komkon.org/ATI85/) < 1269642745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep syntax error with 3 letters < 1269642757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 89 is 68k isn't it? < 1269642760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the other are Z80 < 1269642762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I think it is. < 1269642824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's got strings, and those don't have explicit length limits, but you can again derive some implicit limits from the fact that "lngth" needs to be able to return the length of string, and it returns a "number", and the numbers are something like 14-byte BCD-decimal-floats or some-such. < 1269642844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no plain 84 btw? < 1269642847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the + < 1269642869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might have skipped the number. < 1269642872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you have loops in TI-83+ btw < 1269642873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard of one. < 1269642878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are not done with label and goto < 1269642884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have for() and while iirc < 1269642891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the ram is very limited < 1269642898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would run out of that early on < 1269642900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a nesting limit for the loops, too, but I might misremember. < 1269642905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1269642906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1269642921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The TI-84 Plus is a graphing calculator made by Texas Instruments which was released in early 2004. There is no original TI-84, only the TI-84 Plus and TI-84 Plus Silver Edition models" < 1269642923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia < 1269643201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what just happened to wikipedia < 1269643205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything changed < 1269643214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horribly unreadable now < 1269643225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it went back to normal < 1269643229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ctrl-shift-r < 1269643233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1269643267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug with Beta? < 1269643313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does beta have a smaller font? < 1269643317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so probably < 1269643324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kind of bluish theme < 1269643373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mashable.com/2010/03/26/wikipedias-redesign-is-coming-soon/ < 1269643410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked like a mix of them < 1269643649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're changing it! Therefore it will suck! < 1269643697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks < 1269643705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*MWAHAHAHA*) < 1269643980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, bttr thn th chngs thy md t nglsh. lawlfg! < 1269644036 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1269644740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan: Linking to TV Tropes? Have you no decency? < 1269644742 0 :adam_d!~Adam@aatl101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1269644789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought my evil laughter would be warning enough < 1269645011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately I was already overexposed. < 1269645583 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-156-103-118.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269645646 0 :Aszstal!~asztal@host86-156-103-118.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1269645748 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1269645759 0 :Aszstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1269645855 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1269645959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cpuemu.c:34537: warning: comparison of promoted ~unsigned with unsigned" <-- that is a warning I never seen before < 1269645965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what a huge line number < 1269645979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest clang. < 1269645987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? < 1269645997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives useful errors and warnings. < 1269646002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I doubt it would work. This uses inline asm which llvm doesn't support < 1269646006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes C++ type errors readable. < 1269646008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically x87 asm < 1269646013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaw. < 1269646020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, x87? Burn it with fire! < 1269646029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *shrug* < 1269646050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what is wrong with using that. < 1269646066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite slower than SSE. < 1269646079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure, but SSE doesn't do long double < 1269646099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck dcop.cpp:(.text+0x52c): undefined reference to `KApplication::dcopClient()' < 1269646122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't ./configure have, you know, detected that < 1269646155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says: No results found for "comparison of promoted ~unsigned with unsigned". < 1269646232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I fail to see the advantage of an 80-bit floating point type that's hella-slow and unportable. < 1269646277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well because PPC has 128 bit < 1269646284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while x86 only has 80 bits < 1269646298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 doesn't have floating point. < 1269646300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1269646311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1269646438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1269646447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, PPC does real quadruple-precision floats? That's impressive. < 1269646490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When would you even need floats that precise? < 1269646494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rocket science? < 1269646501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pretty sure it does < 1269646517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_double speaks only of software implementations, but who knows. < 1269646561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, GCC's http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Floating-Types.html says __float80 and __float128 are only supported on x86ish things (the latter with software emulation), but I guess they might still do a "long double" like that. < 1269646679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another place lists a 128-bit PowerPC "long double" format that's listed to be implemented as "fast software". < 1269646689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That double-double non-IEEE thing sounds bizarre. < 1269646706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PowerPC supports long double using its fused multiply-add instruction, so its operations are relatively fast, though not fully IEEE-compliant." < 1269646719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1269646725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1269646735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1269646739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if all you have is a fused multiply-add, all your floats look like... nails? I don't know how that saying goes. < 1269646877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Just don't blow a fuse < 1269646888 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1269647457 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica can't even do diophantine equations over natural numbers.... < 1269647480 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there standard IEEE quad-prec float type also (but not widely supported)? < 1269647528 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to do && x >= 0 < 1269647603 0 :dixon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Mathematica sucks. < 1269647655 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1269647949 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't solve general diophantine equations, though < 1269647999 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out