00:05:36 <Sgeo> Like BAD, but worse. The interpreter terminated, either as a result of Mycology realizing that the interpreter doesnt support something required in a future test, or as a result of the interpreter crashing." How, exactly, is Mycology able to detect the interpreter crashing?
00:06:16 <alise> Perhaps a wrapper shell script? Dunno.
00:06:22 <alise> That's just how he reported the results.
00:06:26 <alise> Not what Mycology /says/.
00:10:59 <Sgeo> If I make a t for LiveFunge-98, will anyone be angry?
00:13:17 <Sgeo> Concurrent Befunge-93!
00:14:14 <Rugxulo> there are no Befunge jobs, silly :-P
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00:30:06 * Sgeo misreads Church's Thesis as "Chuck's Thesis"
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00:59:36 <alise> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.39.4193
00:59:41 -!- alise has set topic: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.39.4193 | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
00:59:45 <alise> someone please remind me of it next week
01:00:56 <alise> Note that here we make an essential use of the universes hierarchy: There is not a unique CAT ,
01:00:57 <alise> there is a family of CATi , and each CATi is a Categoryj for i < j . Thus we do not have \small"
01:00:57 <alise> and \large" categories, but \relatively small" categories. Thus the construction of CAT above is
01:00:57 <alise> consistent with the analysis by Coquand 4] of paradoxes related to the category of categories.
01:01:10 <alise> Sgeo: it's time again
01:02:11 <Sgeo> Keep working on improving your situation
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01:12:08 <olsner> tried implementing bf using a very small subset of my language's features in order to try and catch the ones that were already implemented
01:12:43 <olsner> turns out I have to implement a huge amount of new stuff and complicate the grammar in order to do something useful
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02:37:28 <maedhros777> Does anyone here know of a good Fugue compiler besides this one: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Fugue_Compiler? Because I'm having problems with that compiler.
02:38:21 <maedhros777> I use Linux, and when I run the executable that's created it says "cannot execute binary file"
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02:46:18 <Gregor> maedhros777: Looks to me like that compiler's output is PE/COFF for Windows. Try wine? Alternatively, write your own :)
02:46:56 <maedhros777> Ok, I'll try wine -- judging by the size of the compiler, I don't think I could write my own :)
02:51:51 <Gregor> Sounds like it's about time for EgoFugue :P
02:52:20 <maedhros777> I just tried wine and it didn't work, unfortunately. Maybe I'll have to write my own compiler, because this language seems interesting.
02:52:46 <maedhros777> What would be really awesome would be if I could make a piece that actually sounded good and executed :)
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02:55:43 * Sgeo is obsessed with Android
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03:33:14 <Sgeo> lower ASCII values
03:33:14 <Sgeo> means lower precedence (isn't that *much* easier to remember?
03:34:06 <Sgeo> http://catseye.tc/projects/n-dcnc/doc/readme.txt
03:34:16 <Sgeo> Aces are only high in certain restricted situations, such
03:34:17 <Sgeo> as when the compiler mistakenly assumes they are high.
03:38:58 <Sgeo> Ifs are division by 0!
03:39:05 <Sgeo> erm, just division
03:45:12 <coppro> that language spec is awesome
03:56:50 * Sgeo notes that there exists another Concurrent Befunge-93 interpreter
04:00:24 * Sgeo thinks that a Befunge-93 Live Wallpaper might not actually be that pretty
04:36:06 <calamari> Sgeo: android can have live wallpaper?
04:36:28 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1YBcYw_qE
04:37:40 <Sgeo> As of 2.1 I think
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05:37:45 <evincar> Arbitrary obligatory introduction.
05:39:43 <evincar> What, nobody's up tonight?
05:47:24 <evincar> You working on anything interesting?
05:48:06 <Sgeo> If you asked me around the beginning of 2008, I'd have said yes
05:48:21 <Sgeo> Actually, I am working on something now not related to esolangs
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05:49:11 <evincar> Haha...well, I've got a while. What's the story from then to now?
05:49:35 <Sgeo> No one but me cared, so I stopped
05:49:49 * Sgeo was an overzealous promoter
05:50:05 <evincar> Esolangs'll do that to you.
05:50:12 <evincar> Cruell mistresses, the lot of 'em.
05:50:52 <evincar> For the record, that was supposed to be "cruelle", but I mistyped my misspelling. :/
05:51:54 <evincar> Anyway, what's the project of the now?
05:52:49 <Sgeo> In Active Worlds
05:52:57 <Sgeo> That I shouldn't be talking about, but have, at length
05:53:24 <evincar> Call it drumming up interest.
05:54:20 <evincar> All the language stuff I do nowadays is DSLs to fill specific needs in other projects.
05:54:24 <evincar> http://sourceforge.net/projects/protodata/
05:54:38 <evincar> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vision-language/
05:55:04 * Sgeo is eating then sleeping
05:55:10 <Sgeo> I'll look at those another day probably
05:55:27 <evincar> Alright, whatever you want.
05:55:38 <evincar> I'm just trying to kill some time, honestly.
05:55:50 <evincar> Somebody caring would be pretty cool, though.
05:56:03 <Sgeo> Hm, those project seem interesting
05:56:14 <Sgeo> Oh, and someone reviewed the Vision Web Template thing
05:56:29 <Sgeo> Although I don't quite understand that one. The Protodata seems nice
05:56:34 <Sgeo> http://sourceforge.net/projects/vision-language/
05:56:58 <evincar> Oh, yeah, that's from a friend of mine. :P
05:57:32 <AnMaster> and bbl, going to university →
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06:09:05 <evincar> Welp, there goes my interaction for the night.
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08:41:02 <augur> I recommend that everyone go watch this movie Following by Chris Nolan
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10:07:39 <AnMaster> current connection is ssh tunnel over unreliable university wlan, and there are microwave ovens near here, so if I don't reply suddenly you now know why.
10:08:41 <ais523> my connection is similar, except without the tunnel
10:11:12 <augur> you both have sucky connections it seems :(
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12:23:02 <ais523> zdhwjcln: yes but you didn't stay long enough to find out
12:23:15 <ais523> also, that's a pretty dubious hostname (~Administr as the username, and an IP)
12:42:30 <ais523> <catamorphism> Yes... I turned on the radio this morning and heard something like, "A volcano has erupted in Iceland... but we can't tell you which one, since none of us American reporters would even dare to try to pronounce the name. Tweet us if you know how."
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12:52:12 <ais523> alise for the logs: the iPhone developer contract is getting even crazier, see http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/with-new-developer-agreement-apple-unlevels-the-iad-playing-field/
12:52:41 <ais523> it looks like they've done enough stupid arbitrary restrictions on programmers for the time being, now they're going after marketers
12:53:30 <ais523> and managing to get rid of loads of useful information for programmers at the same time
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14:30:52 <maedhros777> Does anyone know of a good Prelude compiler?
14:32:13 <Gregor> If there's not one linked on the wiki, then there's probably not one ... which means it's time for you to write one ... although prelude being semi-multithreaded would make that interesting ;)
14:32:38 <maedhros777> There is one on the wiki, but I don't think it works.
14:33:05 <maedhros777> I think I might write a Prelude to C compiler and then write a Fugue to Prelude compiler.
14:33:20 <Gregor> Good, that means I don't have to.
14:33:46 <ais523> I have a prelude to BF compiler somewhere, IIRC
14:33:58 <ais523> wait, no, other way round
14:34:34 <ais523> hmm, I have a Prelude interp, it seems
14:35:01 <ais523> on my hard drive, but I could paste it as soon as I figure out how it works
14:35:14 <ais523> and it doesn't seem to do anything special in response to .
14:35:15 <maedhros777> How did you make it without knowing how it works?
14:35:49 <ais523> -rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 4309 2006-08-06 17:35 prelude.c
14:36:18 <ais523> yep; unfortunately the code appears to be DOS-specific
14:36:37 <ais523> but luckily, I had a hint of cross-platform-ness back then and put the DOS stuff in #defines
14:36:51 <ais523> so it should be a one-line change to port
14:37:06 <maedhros777> Should I make it to C or to BrainF**k, do you think?
14:37:28 <ais523> if you're compiling, to C might be easier
14:37:39 <ais523> emulating the effective multiple tapes thing isn't that bad in BF, but it may take some thought
14:37:50 <maedhros777> Yeah, I guess so. Bye now, I'll put it on the wiki when I'm finished.
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14:38:16 <Gregor> Do people have something against staying on IRC...
14:38:19 <ais523> hmm, I was about to paste it as well
14:38:20 <ais523> http://www.pastebin.ca/1867807
14:39:31 <ais523> oh, it's not only on the wiki already
14:39:37 <ais523> but someone ported it to POSIX
14:40:21 <ais523> what you really don't want to see is my Prelude to Fugue compiler
14:40:37 <ais523> because it was so specific to the specific system it was running on, I think it could only have run on that one computer
14:40:51 <ais523> it first worked out what the sequence of notes was (sane)
14:41:21 <ais523> then sent a sequence of keystrokes via the Windows SendKeys API to a proprietary MIDI editor which had its keyboard shortcuts set up to be able to receive them properly (insane)
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14:44:16 <maedhros777> Wait, I just thought of something -- what do ^ and v do in Prelude, exactly? Because I don't get the wiki's explanation.
14:44:48 <ais523> maedhros777: why don't you stay in the channel, btw?
14:45:02 <ais523> we discovered that my compiler was the one that was already on the wiki just after you left
14:45:08 <ais523> except that on the wiki, it was ported to Linux#
14:45:37 <maedhros777> Does it work? Because I tried the hello world example and it didn't do anything
14:45:39 <ais523> anyway, ^ and v basically peek the top of the next voice's stack
14:45:45 <ais523> and push onto the current stack
14:45:52 <ais523> also, what syntax did you use to run it
14:46:23 <ais523> it seems to take a file from the command line and output on stdout
14:46:34 <maedhros777> I compiled the interpreter, put it in my path, and did: $ prelude helloworld.txt
14:46:57 <maedhros777> Here's the hello world: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#Prelude
14:47:03 <Gregor> Nothing happened = it hung, or it quit with no output
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14:47:31 <ais523> I just ran that program through the interpreter and it worked fine
14:47:37 <ais523> however, it doesn't output a final newline
14:47:42 <ais523> so it's possible that your command prompt overwrote it
14:48:07 <maedhros777> I'll have to download the interpreter again, because I just deleted it :)
14:48:08 <ais523> try adding "; echo" to the end of the command line to add a newline
14:48:47 <maedhros777> Wait, yours is the C interpreter, right? Not the python one?
14:49:13 <ais523> I'm a Perl fan, it's pretty rare for me to write things in Python as a result ;)
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14:50:44 -!- Gregor-L has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
14:51:21 <maedhros777> ...8+.!v...4+.1+!..v!..vvv...4+.!vvv.....9+.3-!###!..v6-!..vv..v
14:51:23 <maedhros777> 9+(1-)^#7+(1-)..^7+!^3+!##8+(1-)^###9+1+(1-)..^^^^^3+!..^8-!#1+!
14:53:57 <maedhros777> I was kind of confused about all the periods
14:56:41 <Gregor-L> To synchronize "timing", you have to waste time.
14:58:00 <maedhros777> And this is the interpreter you're using, right? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/prelude/impl/prelude.c
14:58:14 <ais523> just downloaded, compiled and ran it
14:58:48 <ais523> my guess is the problem's with I/O somehow
14:58:58 <ais523> either providing the wrong input, or looking in the wrong place for the output
15:00:32 <ais523> on another topic, I finally discovered the solution to something that had been bothering me for days: http://www.astucia.co.uk/products/product-details?categoryid=176910&productid=179235&class=product
15:00:51 <ais523> I was walking for miles down a cycle path and wondering wtf those things were (it was daytime)
15:01:17 <ais523> but luckily some of them were unworn enough to have readable brand names on, and I traced them via the company that made them
15:01:38 <ais523> (you don't know how hard it is to make out the word "Astucia" when it's mostly covered by dirt and worn in places...)
15:04:22 <Gregor-L> ais523: Does interstack communication create a race condition in Prelude, or is there a guaranteed order of evaluation between the voices?
15:04:48 <ais523> Gregor-L: I don't see any evidence that it isn't a race condition; that hello world is designed to avoid races with appropriate NOPing
15:04:50 <maedhros777> I can't really tell without enough description in the variable names
15:05:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: You don't find those variable names helpful and self-explanatory? :P
15:05:19 <ais523> current voice, number of voices for the first two
15:05:41 <maedhros777> Oh, okay. I'll go replace the variable names :)
15:05:44 <ais523> sp seems to be the instruction pointer
15:06:06 <ais523> c seems to just be a generic temporary
15:06:21 <ais523> and f's a flag used for breaking out of loops
15:07:09 <ais523> hmm, kind of ridiculous that I can refigure out what this code does so quickly after not seeing it for three years
15:08:03 <ais523> must be the stack pointer
15:08:12 <ais523> well, the array of stack pointers
15:08:22 <Gregor-L> ais523 doesn't quite ... "get" initialisms.
15:08:23 <ais523> still, I have no clue why the IP is called sp
15:08:33 <ais523> Gregor-L: s/doesn't/didn't/
15:08:49 <ais523> there's no evidence as to whether I get them or not atm
15:09:24 <ais523> oh, I've also noticed that that program only has one way to exit, and it's always with status code EXIT_FAILURE
15:09:28 <ais523> which is... slightly bizarre
15:10:02 <ais523> (not counting command line arg problems, which /also/ exit with EXIT_FAILURE)
15:10:26 <Gregor-L> It's just scolding you for using esolangs.
15:10:38 <Gregor-L> Even if it works, running it is still FAILURE.
15:10:48 <ais523> at least I can guess why the static arrays are 10 by 6553; it must be to prevent exceeding the maximum static array size limit in DOS
15:10:59 <ais523> nah, it's scolding you for not writing infinite loops
15:11:11 <ais523> int kp[10]={0}; /* stack pointers. Points to TOS. */
15:11:18 <ais523> hmm, there's actually a comment saying what kp does
15:12:06 <ais523> at least the code doesn't randomly break with 32-bit ints
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15:12:21 <ais523> (up until around 4 or 5 years ago, I used to write all my code assuming int was 16 bits)
15:12:28 <ais523> (apart from when it really had to use the win32 API)
15:12:40 <Gregor-L> ais523: Welcome to the 21st century :P
15:13:12 <Deewiant> What changed around 4 or 5 years ago?
15:13:22 <Gregor-L> Deewiant: He installed Windows 95
15:13:31 <ais523> Gregor-L: nah, this was even on Windows XP
15:13:43 <ais523> actually, to UNIX first, then Linux
15:14:08 <Gregor-L> OH GOD NO I see distro wars ahead *sobs*
15:14:12 <ais523> Gregor-L: I got really disappointed that the deprecated API for working the PC speaker directly was removed in Windows XP, I used to have fun with that one
15:14:21 <maedhros777> Nah, I don't care much about different distros
15:14:25 <fizzie> ais523: And that drove you to Linux?
15:14:42 <ais523> maedhros777: originally, Ubuntu because it was preinstalled, then Ubuntu again because I had to replace my laptop in a hurry and didn't want too radical a change while I was in the middle of something else
15:14:55 <ais523> fizzie: that, and the random 20-second pauses whenever you tried to load a MIDI file
15:15:08 <maedhros777> OpenSUSE looks pretty good though, I might try it sometime
15:15:22 <ais523> in the end, my games just spent 5 or 6 minutes at the start loading all the MIDI files so it could play them immediately
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15:15:51 <fizzie> Our workstations here at work used to run OpenSUSE, but they went Ubuntu recently-ish; not many years ago.
15:15:52 <ais523> (the strange thing is, this bug affected Microsoft's own media player too, although for some reason there, it happened the second time the file was loaded, rather than the first)
15:16:09 <Gregor-L> All other distros are for pussies.
15:17:46 <fizzie> Some of these cluster nodes here run CentOS, I think.
15:18:16 <Gregor-L> CentOS is amusing. <RedHat> Getting some money now and then would be nice ... <CentOS> NO.
15:18:18 <ais523> the desktop in my office triple-boots CentOS, CentOS, and Windows 7
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15:18:32 <ais523> Gregor-L: yet Red Hat are still pretty profitable
15:18:44 <Gregor-L> ais523: Yeah, I don't get it :P
15:18:50 <Gregor-L> All my computers single-boot sidux :P
15:18:53 <ais523> I have yet to figure out why there are two CentOS boots on there
15:19:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: SO LONG AS IT IS INSTALLED IT WILL BE YOUR SHAME
15:19:51 <Gregor-L> <maedhros777> And it'll double-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu.
15:19:52 <ais523> I have win7 installed, partly for the purpose of obeying the letter of various contracts
15:20:19 <ais523> heh, the box this computer came in basically had a sticker on saying "by opening this box you accept that you can't get a Windows refund even though the EULA inside says otherwise"
15:20:35 <fizzie> And that neighbour cluster runs Rocks, it seems.
15:21:36 <fizzie> There's an amusing joke about dual-booting in a Finnish parody site, but unfortunately it's in Finnish only.
15:21:53 <ais523> fizzie: as in, doesn't work when translated?
15:22:01 <maedhros777> Isn't MS generally required to give a refund?
15:22:05 <ais523> "this sentence is difficult to translate into French"
15:22:22 <Gregor-L> `translateto fr this sentence is difficult to translate into French
15:22:32 <HackEgo> cette phrase est difficile ŕ traduire en français
15:22:49 <ais523> maedhros777: no, MS's EULA says that the hardware company has to give you a refund, and doesn't refund the price of Windows to the hardware company itself
15:23:07 <ais523> and it's part of their own contracts with the hardware companies that the hardware companies have to put up with this
15:23:15 <fizzie> ais523: As in, I don't have time to translate ans wouldn't probably generate very good prose anyway. The gist of it is that it's a parody of a column in a computing magazine, and the guy's recounting his experiences on installing Linux on a computer that currently "dual-boots MacOS and Netware 5 simultaneously".
15:23:31 <maedhros777> So I could get a refund, but it would benefit MS?
15:23:34 <ais523> so dodging the Microsoft tax unfortunately doesn't hurt Microsoft, just the hardware manufacturer
15:23:51 <ais523> maedhros777: you could /maybe/ get a refund; the majority of companies eventually pay persistent people to go away
15:24:07 <ais523> because it costs them less money than actually trying to handle the whole legally dubious issue
15:24:21 <ais523> that's how much it costs to buy in the shop
15:24:25 <ais523> the price preinstalled is much lower
15:24:57 <Gregor-L> songhead95: X11 is for the weak.
15:25:14 <fizzie> After the distro wars: window management wars!
15:25:24 <ais523> maedhros777: just looking around online, it seems that the OEM price - that's the price that you could get buying in bulk as a small computer manufacturer - tends to be about half the price of buying in the shops
15:25:26 <fizzie> Awesome for me, even with the Lua bad-smell.
15:25:39 <Gregor-L> ais523: That's still $100 *shrugs*
15:25:58 <ais523> the values for large manufacturers buying in bulk tend to be lower still
15:26:13 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: Apple barely acknowledges that Mac OS X isn't burnt into ROM.
15:26:38 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund is a list of the actual amounts that people were refunded when they actually tried and succeeded
15:30:17 <ais523> well, in pretty much all minor lawsuits, there comes a point where it's cheaper just to give in and pay a trivial amount of money for the other side to go away
15:30:24 <ais523> which is normally just before the lawyers get involved
15:31:00 <ais523> as for window managers, I'm using Compiz at the moment
15:31:26 <ais523> although I use xmonad from time to time, I haven't yet figured out how to get it to work with sound and networking, both of which are a little important
15:31:28 <maedhros777> But i use Metacity for Blender, it doesn't work with Compiz
15:31:30 <songhead95> most people would say it's just good fair in the business world
15:32:02 <ais523> (for some reason, the way Ubuntu sets up startup things, which WM you use somehow affects networking and audio, probably because it's different between KDE and Gnome so xmonad gets nothing)
15:33:47 <maedhros777> Is it just me, or in the Prelude interpreter, does sp remain 0 for most of the program, when it's used?
15:35:35 <ais523> the instruction pointer rarely changes value in an interp
15:35:50 <fizzie> I was under the impression that large corporations have teams of lawyers on retainer-sort of deals all the time anyway, and can use them to bully little people if they're not doing anything more important at the moment.
15:35:53 <ais523> normally, it increments once each time round the main loop, and sometimes jumps up or down if you find a loop
15:36:11 <ais523> fizzie: but their travel costs to small claims court would be too expensive
15:36:14 <maedhros777> Yeah, I'm getting sick of these corporations
15:38:20 <maedhros777> Then declare ourselves an independent country
15:38:36 <fizzie> One microsoft lawyer estimated (in a bar over beers, unofficially, to a visiting lecturer) that they spent around a megadollar on lawyer expenses for the EU part of the Oracle-Sun deal, even though it didn't directly concern them.
15:38:37 <ais523> hmm, the problem would be with trying to get rid of a particular magnetic pattern on the hard drive, and throwing that into the harbor
15:38:39 <ais523> nothing wrong with the computer
15:39:14 <ais523> and Windows is beginning to reach the stage of not being that bad
15:39:48 <ais523> maedhros777: it's been stealing a whole load of good ideas from other OSes, and maybe even having a few of its own
15:39:54 <ais523> it's certainly /usable/, just frustrating
15:40:18 <Gregor-L> It's also stole good ideas from Windows 1 and advertized them to no end as if they're new :P
15:40:37 <ais523> Gregor-L: seriously? Windows 1 hardly had any features at all
15:40:58 <Gregor-L> ais523: "Snap" is effectively the ONLY window layout of Windows 1, and now it's a feature ;)
15:41:31 <Gregor-L> (Also, "snap" already had a meaning in all other windowing systems, and they decided to take it for something else because they're douchebags)
15:41:55 <Gregor-L> The People's Republic of Idea.
15:42:04 <ais523> one interesting thing to notice, btw, is that both the Microsoft and Apple commercials try to make the decision "Mac vs. PC" rather than "OS X vs. Windows"
15:42:07 <pineapple> windows 7: mouse gestures to give you what keyboard shortcuts could give you anyway
15:42:26 <Gregor-L> ais523: Yes, both of them want to choke out other options, just like the Democratic and Republican parties.
15:42:27 <ais523> which is, I suppose, a good way to confuse people into not realizing Linux exists
15:42:37 <ais523> or, well, OpenSolaris or the BSDs
15:42:42 <maedhros777> Wow, you sound like you have my politics, Gregor
15:42:58 <ais523> Gregor-L: the UK politics situation has become really confusing
15:43:00 <Gregor-L> My politics are "I fucking hate politics" :P
15:43:20 <ais523> there was a big televised debate on Thursday, and the Liberal Democrats somehow managed to win it by all sensible measures, shocking everyone
15:44:01 <ais523> they're currently within-statistical-noise of the Conservatives at the top of the polls, with Labour in third, which is also rather unexpected
15:44:14 <ais523> although, the voting system means that they don't have much of a chance
15:44:19 <ais523> maedhros777: I'm in the UK; I think Gregor-L is American
15:44:51 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
15:45:05 <ais523> !bf_txtgen Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
15:45:11 <EgoBot> 481 ++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>>++++++.>-------.+++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++.>----.>----.<<++.++++++++.-.>----.<<+++++++++++++.>>>.<-------.++.+++++++++++++.<<++++.>>>.<+++.<+.>----.>.<.<+.>>++++++++++++.------------.<<--.---------.>+.<.>----.>.<<<++.>>---.<<+++++++..>----.-----------------------------------------------------------------.<--.-------.>>+++++.<.>+++++.----------.++++++.<.<-.+++++++++++.++++++++.-------
15:45:12 <ais523> sorry, this is needed to settle an argument in another channel
15:45:18 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: Given that the two parties are the only ones that have non-zero chance of winning at the national scale, I vote democrat.
15:45:56 <Gregor-L> In one election I voted for a republic, a democrat, a green, a libertarian and an independent all on one ballot :P
15:46:18 <ais523> technically speaking, isn't the US both a republic and a democracy?
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15:46:22 <Gregor-L> They were each the best and most qualified for the respective roles *shrugs*
15:46:41 <Gregor-L> ais523: It's a democratic republic and/or representative republic.
15:46:45 <ais523> maedhros777: from an external point of view, the democrats and republicans are so similar that it makes more sense to vote for the sanest person than for the party
15:47:12 <maedhros777> Just that if i had to vote for a Republicrat, it would be a Dem
15:47:23 <Gregor-L> BTW, I'm an Oregonian ... we're even weirder out there :P
15:47:41 <Gregor-L> It's one of the few states where Greens actually win positions occasional.
15:47:51 <Gregor-L> Gawd, these fekking wrist splints are making me mistype
15:48:19 <Gregor-L> Presently I'm in Indiana *bleh*
15:51:52 <ais523> well, you aren't (yet) grounded by an Icelandic ash cloud
15:52:05 <ais523> although, really people need to stop relying on air travel so much
15:52:19 <maedhros777> This is strange -- when I change the interpreter to print the number of voices, it says there are 4
15:52:49 <ais523> maedhros777: aha, maybe somehow newlines have been doubled in your input file
15:52:55 <ais523> or there are trailing newlines, or something like that
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15:53:42 <maedhros777> I'm using gedit, does it do anything strange with newlines?
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15:55:17 <songhead95___> Hi I'm a mac booting debian, and in the other room is a pc running freebsd
15:55:52 <songhead95___> and in my hand is an ipod ssh-ing into the pc, because you can do that with a jailbreak
15:55:57 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: $ file helloworld.txt
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15:57:04 <ais523> strange, file normally says what sort of file terminators it has
15:59:11 <maedhros777> When i do "cat prelude.txt", it just shows two lines
16:01:13 <ais523> maedhros777: if there are carriage-returns in there, they won't be visible
16:01:16 <ais523> try cat -v prelude.txt
16:01:48 <ais523> any ^M written at the ends of them?
16:03:45 <maedhros777> Hang on, let me try using ftell() in the interpreter when it encounters a newline.
16:06:28 <maedhros777> Turns out there were 2 newlines at the end of the file
16:07:54 <Gregor-L> Schweet. Have fun with MIDI :P
16:08:11 <maedhros777> Only problem will be that Fugue allows more than just 0..9
16:08:48 <maedhros777> I'll have to alter the interpreter a bit, or just directly interpret Fugue using the interpreter code
16:10:07 <maedhros777> If you listen to the Fugue Hello World (http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#Fugue) it sounds horrible =D
16:12:02 <Gregor-L> Well then it seems to me like it's up to you to improve upon it :P
16:12:11 <ais523> maedhros777: it was autogenerated
16:12:20 <ais523> I actually find autogenerated Fugue music kind-of beautiful
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16:12:34 <ais523> because the program has some sort of a purpose behind it, it's not the normal computer's autogenerated ramblings
16:12:39 <ais523> it grows on you after a while
16:12:48 <maedhros777> What would be awesome would be if an existing piece compiled in Fugue :)
16:13:04 <ais523> (meanwhile, I've been looking at <http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2257>; just how /do/ you pronounce Eyjafjallajökull, anyway?)
16:13:40 <ais523> they actually interviewed a bunch of icelanders, and they all gave different pronunciations
16:16:38 <ais523> some day I want to compile Lost Kingdoms to Fugue
16:16:44 <ais523> I wonder how long the resulting tune would be?
16:16:54 <ais523> I probably need to learn the MIDI file format first, though, so I can generate it directly
16:17:17 <Gregor-L> ais523: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/MidiComp Use this intermediary format instead.
16:17:53 <ais523> ugh, web's being unreliable again
16:18:01 <ais523> it's not a DNS problem or proxy problem
16:18:14 <ais523> because there's no proxy (that I know of), and I'm using level3's DNS
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16:18:29 <Gregor-L> midicomp is a MIDI-to-ASCII-to-MIDI convertor that uses an ASCII format very related to MIDI, but without fekking around with MIDI bignums and the like.
16:18:29 <ais523> and it works or doesn't work randomly when I try to load the page
16:18:52 <Gregor-L> I use it whenever I have to write programs that fekk with MIDIs :P
16:19:41 <ais523> hmm, I'll just use CPAN
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16:45:20 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: MIDI files use a bignum format.
16:45:33 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, heh, as scaled integer or what
16:45:59 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: One bit of each byte is used to indicate whether the next byte is part of the bignum. The rest are used as part of the number.
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16:47:24 <ais523> Gregor-L: hmm, like UTF-9?
16:47:56 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, sure, but consider the length of a note for example. How is that encoded? An _integer_ wouldn't work unless you could do a _scaled_ integer or a ratio between two or such
16:48:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It's an integer number of ticks.
16:48:24 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: You have to choose your ticks wisely so that you can encode all notes you need.
16:48:38 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, and how is the tick encoded?
16:49:05 <Gregor-L> And beats are in something like microseconds per beat.
16:49:32 <AnMaster> yeah I was trying to figure out how that recursive definition worked ;P
16:50:17 <Gregor-L> Sadly, most systems that write MIDIs use a fixed, and often bad, tick length.
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16:50:38 <Gregor-L> 1024 is a popular (and inexcusably flawed) choice.
16:51:00 <Gregor-L> It should be a large power of 2 times as many primes as you can reasonably get.
16:51:22 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, what a about rosegarden?
16:52:02 <pineapple> Gregor-L: i thought it was 960, not 1024
16:52:27 <ais523> the Perl libraries default to 96, unless you really happen to need a different division
16:52:32 <pineapple> i've seen 960 used by something, but i forget what
16:52:32 <Gregor-L> pineapple: 960 is the less-popular, non-flawed choice.
16:52:44 <Gregor-L> 96 doesn't allow for proper 5-tuplets.
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16:52:47 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, 480 is less detailed than 1024?
16:53:00 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: 1024 doesn't allow for proper 3- or 5-tuplets.
16:53:17 <Gregor-L> It needs to be a power of many 2s, and as many primes as possible to allow for tuplets.
16:53:32 <Gregor-L> Since 7-tuplets and higher are rare, multiples of 7 are generally reserved for Chopin :P
16:53:32 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, true. So what about 8192*3*5*7*13 or such?
16:53:37 <pineapple> seems to be the best i can come up with
16:53:50 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: If you get too high, you're liable to make beat counts be enormous :P
16:54:06 <pineapple> AnMaster: i think the format is limited to 1024
16:54:16 <ais523> it should be the number with the most factors less than 16384
16:54:17 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, IMO rosegaden should check how much it needs when exporting to midi
16:54:28 <AnMaster> pineapple, that would be stupid
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16:54:43 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It might, I just checked an example file *shrugs*
16:55:00 <Gregor-L> pineapple: The format isn't limited IIRC, although it's quite possible that many /players/ are limited.
16:55:01 <pineapple> although i might be wrong about the limit
16:55:34 <pineapple> well... 3.5.7 = 105; i'd be tempted to add another 3 in that before adding an 11
16:55:52 <Gregor-L> pineapple: WOULDJA LIKE SOME 2S
16:56:02 <pineapple> Gregor-L: i'm adding the 2s on afterwards
16:56:17 <Gregor-L> I'd say 128ths are more common than 9-tuplets.
16:56:19 <pineapple> work out how many i have "room" for
16:59:34 <fizzie> I've done a reasonable bit of manual MIDI file handling for a former jobplace; it's certainly a bit crafty format. The time division field is either 15-bit "ticks per beat" thing, or some sort of SMPTE time-code based frames-per-second value (7 bits for fps, 8 for ticks/frame).
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17:02:26 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, I demand 127-tuplets!
17:02:51 <AnMaster> I have no clue how it would sound
17:03:18 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, btw what about midi as in the hardware protocol thingy, does it use such a tick too?
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17:09:37 <maedhros777> So does anyone know of an MIDI library or where the specification is?
17:09:55 <HackEgo> The standard MIDI file format is a very strange beast. When viewed as a whole, it can be quite overwhelming. Of course, no matter how you look at it, ... \ faydoc.tripod.com/formats/mid.htm - [13]Cached - [14]Similar
17:10:18 <Gregor-L> midicomp is a MIDI-to-ASCII-to-MIDI convertor if you want to make your life easier but have another intermediary.
17:10:31 <maedhros777> Wow, I googled it and i got that exact site :)
17:10:49 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: How unsurprising what with `google being a script that googles :P
17:12:15 <maedhros777> Oh yeah -- I don't know if any of you are musicians, but are accidentals allowed in Fugue, or a key other than C major?
17:12:47 <Gregor-L> The spec makes that utterly unclear.
17:12:56 <Gregor-L> I would say, since it's interval-based, assume the first note is the root.
17:13:04 <Gregor-L> (Which is horribly broken, but ignore that :P )
17:13:19 <Gregor-L> Treat diminshed and augmented intervals as if they were the natural interval.
17:13:23 <maedhros777> Well, I guess that just gives you C major, A minor, and all the strange modes out there
17:14:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: I recall this spec being quite useful: http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/midifiles.html
17:15:35 <maedhros777> So, if i take forever, I could write a 2-hour composition in E phrygian that does a text adventure game when run =D
17:16:34 <Gregor-L> ... no, I was just linking some totally random site</sarcasm>
17:17:47 <Gregor-L> Everything on that page was written by me.
17:18:46 <Gregor-L> My favorite composer is Borodn, I like all the other Romantic-era Russian composers, also Chopin ... I also like to think there's a tiny tidbit of jazz in there, though not much.
17:19:34 <maedhros777> My favorites are Baroque,like Bach and Vivaldi, and some Romantic like Mendelssohn and Paganini
17:19:48 <Gregor-L> http://aforteforpiano.wordpress.com/ I was working on Chopin's third nocturne from Op. 9 until I just recently got my hands put in wrist splints as punishment for working on Chopin's third nocturne from Op. 9 ...
17:19:56 <maedhros777> I play guitar, right now I'm trying to learn Paganini's 24 caprice
17:20:13 <maedhros777> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6XJkRBPSQc
17:20:46 <Gregor-L> Guitar in a classical context doesn't get the respect it deserves.
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17:21:06 <Gregor-L> Meanwhile, the piano gets tossed in over music that predates the instrument :P
17:21:47 <Gregor-L> I've got a sweet digital piano with a really nice harpsichord sound, I like to use it when I play Bach.
17:22:30 <maedhros777> I know a really good pianist who can play Mendelssohn's fantasy in F# minor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODorVTR7p4w)
17:24:08 <Gregor-L> Y'know, I think raw velocity isn't quite the right measurement for such things :P
17:24:40 <maedhros777> Well, there isn't really a unit of measurement for finger speed on piano
17:25:06 <Gregor-L> Sure there is ... the scale goes from "first grader who just started Piano lessons" to "Rachmanninov"
17:25:42 <Gregor-L> That's also a hand-size scale, btw.
17:25:48 <maedhros777> I'm not great at piano, right now I just play a bit of Beethoven
17:26:45 <maedhros777> So on choosemyhat.com, do you actually wear those hats wherever you go?
17:27:04 <Gregor-L> I'm wearing a pakul even as we speak.
17:29:34 <Gregor-L> Also, I try to keep my hats JUST south of insane.
17:29:55 <maedhros777> The scottish hat looks pretty good, though
17:30:23 <Gregor-L> I still have two Scottish hats :P
17:30:25 <maedhros777> So can the same IP vote for different days?
17:32:55 <Gregor-L> I don't own a pirate hat, but I appreciate your vote for my extremely-patriotic American-style tricorn.
17:34:06 <maedhros777> It's funny how myths about pirates spring up, real pirates live in Somalia and wouldn't say "arr", they'd just shoot you with an m16
17:35:29 <Gregor-L> And if they'd get the hell out of there, the government could fix itself and I could finally buy the domain name which is my greatest dream: libc.so
17:36:30 <maedhros777> http://codu.org/colormatch/ Pretty interesting
17:36:38 <Gregor-L> I don't even know what I'd use it for, probably just forward it to the GNU libc page ;P
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17:40:19 <maedhros777> http://codu.org/colormatch/q/index.php This is pretty accurate
17:46:17 <Gregor-L> Today, a tour of Gregor Richards Technologies :P
17:46:30 -!- deschutron has left (?).
17:46:37 <Gregor-L> Some of the standard library was written by pikhq, the interpreter, spec and most of the standard library were written by me.
17:47:18 <maedhros777> Wait, I downloaded Plof but the INSTALL file says to run configure; I don't see it
17:47:43 <Gregor-L> Heh, that INSTALL is autogenerated; you have to have autoconf and automake installed, and run ./autoreconf.sh before running configure.
17:48:09 <Gregor-L> (Conventionally, since configure scripts are generated, they're not put into source repositories)
17:49:39 <maedhros777> When I run make it says "plof/plof.h:31:19: error: gc/gc.h: No such file or directory"
17:49:59 <Gregor-L> (And libgc-dev or whatever your package manager wants to call it for compiling)
17:50:39 <Gregor-L> Get libffi-dev while you're at it.
17:50:44 <Gregor-L> Not STRICTLY necessary, but a huge plus.
17:51:24 <Gregor-L> (Also, we should probably move this to #plof )
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18:00:09 <pikhq> I got highlighted, and the highlight is not in my buffer.
18:00:42 <Gregor-L> <maedhros777> Wow, did you write Plof by yourself?
18:00:42 <Gregor-L> <Gregor-L> Some of the standard library was written by pikhq, the interpreter, spec and most of the standard library were written by me.
18:00:47 <pikhq> Oh, there it is. Away message.
18:00:54 <pikhq> 23:29 #esoteric: < coppro> pikhq: ping?
18:01:05 <pikhq> That was the highlight.
18:01:19 * pikhq just returned from weekend-ness
18:02:01 <pikhq> Gregor-L: BTW, just "autoreconf" works instead of ./autoreconf.sh nowadays.
18:02:22 <Gregor-L> pikhq: ./autoreconf.sh just runs autoreconf, then find . -name autom4te.cache | xargs rm -rf :P
18:02:46 <AnMaster> what is the point of autom4te.cache?
18:03:01 <AnMaster> I mean, it seems just as slow with as without that cache
18:03:02 * Sgeo goes off to take a cold shower
18:03:18 <Gregor-L> If you run autom4te (as part of autoconf) again, it doesn't need to expand macros it has cached.
18:03:36 <AnMaster> heh, I never noticed any speed diff
18:03:43 <Gregor-L> It's quite stupid, because we live in 2010, not 1975 :P
18:03:49 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, and _why_ does plof (presumably) use autoconf?
18:03:59 <AnMaster> after all we live in 2010, not 1975 :P
18:04:11 <Gregor-L> Because all the alternative systems suck donkey balls, and autoconf merely sucks dog balls?
18:04:31 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, yeah but it is one of those huge wild dogs :P
18:05:05 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, anyway there are non-sucky build systems.
18:05:20 <Gregor-L> When you spend two years doing software build automation, you learn to love autoconf and hate {plain makefiles,scons,that one the name of which I can't remember}
18:05:28 <AnMaster> however all those I know of are targeting a single specific language
18:06:08 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, also there is a technical term for that. It is: brainwashing
18:06:25 <Gregor-L> That's the one I hate the most!
18:06:39 <pikhq> Most build systems are *terrible* for automation.
18:06:41 <Gregor-L> Couldn't even remember that crappile's name.
18:06:45 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, why? I mean, it used to be worse. But even back then it was better than autoconf
18:06:48 <pikhq> Autoconf at least gets it right.
18:06:49 <Gregor-L> And yes, CMake SUCKS for automation.
18:07:22 <pikhq> Gregor-L: Less so than it used to.
18:07:29 <pikhq> AnMaster: Those, I BURN WITH FIRE.
18:07:30 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, the kernel has a _very_ nice build system IMO
18:07:38 <AnMaster> pikhq, so you prefer the kernel to use autoconf?
18:07:43 <AnMaster> imagine the _huge_ command line
18:07:48 * pikhq too has spend quite a bit of time doing build automation
18:07:59 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: That no longer counts as custom, and its system only makes sense when you have an untenably huge number of configuration options.
18:08:02 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, that is one of the *very* few custom build systems that's not evil.
18:08:05 <AnMaster> to ./configure --arch=amd64 --enable-sata --disable-whatever --with-foo=module
18:08:28 <pikhq> It's great when you have a massive number of configuration options.
18:08:34 <Gregor-L> Most software packages are nowhere near as build-configurable as {the kernel,busybox}.
18:08:35 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, iirc uclibc uses kernel configure
18:08:57 <pikhq> uclibc and busybox are both complex enough to need it.
18:09:09 <pikhq> There's also ALFS.
18:09:14 <AnMaster> I wonder why glibc doesn't use it
18:09:27 <pikhq> Automated Linux From Scratch.
18:09:31 <Gregor-L> Automated Linux From Scratch. It is exactly as WTF as it sounds.
18:09:40 <AnMaster> and ALFS sounds like cheating ;P
18:10:09 <AnMaster> and HLFS I did successfully for a (back then at least) unsupported arch
18:10:29 * pikhq can generally bootstrap a build chain from memory by now
18:10:39 <AnMaster> but ALFS sounds interesting, I would very much like to learn how the kernel build system works on the inside
18:10:55 <AnMaster> but perhaps it will start to look horrible around then
18:10:58 <pikhq> I start having issues when members of the build chain don't build without patches.
18:11:17 <pikhq> (uClibc; GCC just plain *hates* uClibc without patches)
18:11:38 <AnMaster> or isn't that mature enough to manage libc, kernel and so on yet?
18:11:47 <pikhq> Insufficiently mature.
18:11:51 <Gregor-L> <Apple> clang solves ALL PROBLEMS and also allows us to lock GNU out of OS X.
18:12:07 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, you started hating clang now?
18:12:08 <pikhq> Well. The *C* frontend is, but the C++ frontend in the stable release isn't.
18:12:13 <AnMaster> I thought you loved it recently
18:12:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: No, I don't hate clang, I hate Apple.
18:12:36 <pikhq> I do quite like Clang.
18:12:45 <pikhq> It gives useful errors. Is nice.
18:12:50 <Sgeo> There's an Apple IIe emulator for Android
18:13:03 <AnMaster> pikhq, who cares about C++? I don't think you need C++ for the base system
18:13:04 <Sgeo> Why do I have a feeling one will never exist for iProduct?
18:13:07 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: On a scale from one to ten, I find that entirely unsurprising.
18:13:21 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: Because it's against the SDK license agreement?
18:13:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, well of course you do for clang itself
18:13:37 <AnMaster> but yeah apart from that (and that includes llvm)
18:13:37 <pikhq> AnMaster: Surprisingly? Many things do require C++.
18:13:52 <Sgeo> Gregor-L, how is RoboZZle not against it?
18:14:01 <AnMaster> pikhq, getting a bootable POSIX shell with the standard POSIX commands does not
18:14:23 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: It probably "is", but the license agreement is more about Apple asserting themselves as douchebags than actually accomplishing anything.
18:14:29 <pikhq> Depends on what you mean by "standard". Sure, coreutils and fileutils you can get without a C++ compiler..
18:15:22 <AnMaster> pikhq, well, all that is required from POSIX. I very much doubt you can't get that without C++. Unless it explicitly declares there should be a /usr/bin/c++ (and I have forgotten that)
18:15:40 <AnMaster> and by that I mean POSIX.1-2008 with no optional features
18:16:02 <AnMaster> the only thing that is an issue is the C compiler
18:16:22 <AnMaster> and in theory you could just use an older gcc version before it needed c++ stuff or pcc
18:17:52 <AnMaster> ooh this looks nifty: http://codu.org/projects/stuff/hg/index.cgi/file/32bf7f3d092d/lddcapture
18:18:49 <pikhq> You can actually build GCC without a C++ compiler, and not build in C++ support.
18:19:04 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, does it copy just the files listed in ldd or does it try to copy the original one in case it happens to be a symlink? and then run ldconfig to recreate the symlink
18:19:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes but gcc nowdays depend on some C++ libs iirc
18:19:33 <AnMaster> I don't think they are optional any more
18:19:58 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It copies and does not recreate symlinks.
18:20:00 <AnMaster> http://gcc.gnu.org/install/prerequisites.html
18:20:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: The created files are not expected to be canonical names, they are expected to be the names expected by the linker.
18:20:58 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, this explains why it was too good to be true. Was hoping it was the perfect tool for populating chroots with the required libs
18:21:43 <Gregor-L> Well, it could certainly do that, so long as you don't care about the filename being correct ... that being said, if the libs depend on other files, you're still screwed.
18:22:03 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, oh. Very much to good to be true then
18:22:23 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, so it *does* do foo -> libbar -> libquux correctly then?
18:22:32 <Gregor-L> Yes, in the sense that ldd does that for it.
18:22:49 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, those libraries just have optional C++ bindings.
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18:23:11 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, idea for future version: decompile the code in case of dlopen() to figure out (if possible) the arguments it is called with ;)
18:24:06 * Sgeo feels unsanitary :(
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19:01:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Is there a thing like fork() which keeps the two threads using and modifying the same memory?
19:03:08 <pikhq> Look into pthreads.
19:03:24 <pikhq> Also: abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
19:20:58 <Phantom_Hoover> O dear god the manual pages don't cross-reference properly.
19:24:55 <AnMaster> things under "see also" in man pthreads seems to work
19:25:39 <AnMaster> and there is always man pthread<tab><tab><y to list all 114 posibilities>
19:28:21 <Phantom_Hoover> I've checked Synaptic, and it doesn't look like there's a doc package I'm missing, or at least not an obvious one.
19:32:38 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, what specific man page are you missing?
19:32:51 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, try apt-file on it
19:33:05 <AnMaster> (install and update apt-file's db first of course)
19:35:40 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, I can't help you without a *specific* example
19:35:48 <AnMaster> so I can search for what package provides it
19:36:03 <AnMaster> now since you seem completely uninterested I'll leave it to yourself
19:36:48 <AnMaster> (it might be 3p, worth considering)
19:47:30 <AnMaster> Gregor, he could have tried to help himself. He refused the help first, then the help to help.
19:48:15 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, well Gregor already helped you
19:48:33 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, I'm not feeling in the mood for helping someone who needs to look up in a dict what "specific" means
19:49:08 <AnMaster> (that is the only theory consistent with your behaviour...)
19:51:50 <Gregor> Feeling a modicum more dickish than usual, eh
19:52:53 <AnMaster> Gregor, I'm rather annoyed in general if that is what you mean
19:53:24 <AnMaster> Gregor, I also always have a problem with people who can't keep up in a convo.
19:53:52 <AnMaster> (that point varies depending on lots of things)
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22:24:03 <AnMaster> fizzie, well? How do they work?
22:33:19 <fizzie> No clue; they haven't told us.
22:33:57 <fizzie> I think the Storage System (tm) is a commercial thing; the name was mentioned.
22:37:45 <fizzie> There was a SAN system called EMC CLARiiON AX150, but I'm not sure if that's the new or the old one.
22:41:33 <fizzie> "The laboratory has two large disk systems. The primary disk system is an HP EVA 5000, and the secondary is the newer EMC AX150."
22:41:45 <fizzie> I'm just not sure the "newer" here equals "newest", too.
22:42:10 <fizzie> At least the server names have changed.
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22:50:59 <fizzie> Last SysAdmGroup meeting minutes document says they've actually been thinking about 5 GB/10 GB (soft/hard) quotas for ~; nothing for project and work disks, of course.
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23:16:05 <fizzie> AnMaster: Oh, and you asked about the SSD speed; this is the lamest benchmark of them all (hdparm -t --direct), but http://pastebin.com/TwSHuU5f -- sda's the SSD, sdb and sdc are identical "energy-save, low-noise" marketed 5400 RPM 1TB rotating disks.
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23:18:59 <Rugxulo> <maedhros777> "Windows 7 was my idea!" What nonsense.
23:19:10 <Rugxulo> they show the French ad (!) here in the U.S. ad nauseum ... why????
23:19:26 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Fuck if I know.
23:19:41 <pikhq> It's not even like we have a notable French-speaking population outside of Louisiana...
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23:20:10 <Rugxulo> it's got (very small) subtitles, but they also (less often) show the English (U.K.) ad too
23:20:23 <Rugxulo> at least that one is comprehensible
23:20:37 <Rugxulo> still, talk about a waste of money ... "Buy Windows! Oh wait, 99% of you already have it!"
23:21:14 <Rugxulo> I still laugh at the truth in ye olde "advertising, advertising, advertising ... fix Vista ... advertising, advertising, advertising ..." joke ad
23:22:50 <Rugxulo> <Gregor-L> It's one of the few states where Greens actually win positions occasional.
23:23:10 <Sgeo> WHY does Apple want to restrict apps, exactly?
23:23:11 <Rugxulo> well Jesse Ventura made big headlines as (Independent) governor of Minnesota back in the day
23:23:13 <Sgeo> What does it get them?
23:23:36 <Rugxulo> "no cross-compiled stuff" ... eh? as if it matters!
23:24:26 <Rugxulo> <ais523> well, you aren't (yet) grounded by an Icelandic ash cloud
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23:24:44 <Rugxulo> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Eyjafjallajkull.ogg
23:25:59 <augur> or something close to that
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23:30:08 * oerjan imagines "As Katla erupts, the whole of Europe shivers, while American newscasters breathe a sound of relief."
23:34:35 <Rugxulo> <Gregor-L> God CMake sucks.
23:34:50 <Rugxulo> but it's more and more common these days
23:39:32 <Rugxulo> <AnMaster> and in theory you could just use an older gcc version before it needed c++ stuff or pcc
23:39:53 <Rugxulo> G++ only works with GCC (while I think you can, or used to, be able to build GCC itself with other CCs)
23:39:57 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Still a royal pain for build automation.
23:40:21 <pikhq> And yes, G++ only works with GCC, but that's quite irrelevant.
23:40:34 <pikhq> You just perform a bootstrap build, so that everything but GCC is built with GCC.
23:43:29 <Rugxulo> what compilers work at compiling GCC? I presume ICC would work (or probably did in the past), doubt many others do (Sun C ???)
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23:44:55 <pikhq> Rugxulo: GCC proper actually goes to great pains to be buildable by other compilers.
23:45:06 <pikhq> For the longest time it was written to allow a K&R compiler to build it.
23:45:09 <Rugxulo> GCC is a great pain to build, IMHO ;-)
23:45:30 <pikhq> It only uses autoconf, not automake. Ugh.
23:46:15 <Rugxulo> however, I imagine that using GCC 2.7.2 to build 2.95 would then allow newer versions to compile properly, if in a pinch (since those are easier, esp. 2.7.2)
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