< 1273795210 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excel's "language" and VBA exist in localized versions < 1273795222 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any others? < 1273795245 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems strange that all of them are in English < 1273795260 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273795279 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a sanskrit lisp would be very nice < 1273795289 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it exist? < 1273795292 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1273795297 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've seen some people talking about ideas for a chinese APL < 1273795299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, rebooting the router isn't helping HTTP any. < 1273795313 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1273795317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese APL? That would work quite well. < 1273795326 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is terrible :) < 1273795327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Python has a Spanish version < 1273795327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be nice to take chinese characters and just use a random dictionary to map them to meanings in a programming language < 1273795328 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, obviously this is your destiny < 1273795345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm a guy who uses Chinese characters to write English. :P < 1273795378 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this: http://blog.aegisub.org/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html < 1273795387 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what it says about APL and VB =D < 1273795410 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nice! I was considering learning to do something like that, inventing my own english dialect using kanjis and translating all the linux software into it for sweet compactness and weirdness < 1273795466 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thought: how are accents represented in HTML? < 1273795467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. 漢字-書en programming 語... The 意 amuses 僕 大tly. < 1273795483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Depends on the encoding format in use. < 1273795485 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or on a European keyboard? < 1273795522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the most general means of representing them is with the equivalent HTML entity. AKA a Unicode codepoint. < 1273795531 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok < 1273795538 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about on a keyboard? < 1273795541 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: kanji-something-en programming language... the thought amuses me greatly? < 1273795565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Kanji-written programming language. The idea amuses me greatly. < 1273795608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 考 for thought, and 意 for idea. The mapping is a bit imperfect, I admit, but it kinda-sorta works. < 1273795639 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273795724 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye now < 1273795725 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273795745 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "idea" kanji looked similar to how I remembered japanese "thought", but after looking it up they're quite different < 1273795781 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just share the "heart" radical(?) in the bottom < 1273795845 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273795846 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273795931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1273796148 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273796181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH STOP DROPPING CONNECTIONS < 1273796211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell is it that this damned thing manages to drop *specific connections*? < 1273796281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot browse the web, but I can browse Gopher. < 1273796377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had that experience
< 1273796383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get to https:// stuff? < 1273796419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good https server to try? < 1273796454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to use https://secondlife.com < 1273796491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for the login page for eBay
< 1273796505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://signin.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2F < 1273796719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I almost lost my Freenode connection, and didn't get the page loaded. < 1273796836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I can't get an IM connection going at all. < 1273797046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1273797076 0 :biduzido!~biduzido@187.10.72.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273797134 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273797139 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1273797281 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273797332 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1273797334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, can't browse the web with Elinks. *While no other connections exist*. < 1273797375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got everything-but-what-normal-people-use Internet service. < 1273797401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tunnel HTTP over IRC! < 1273797414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, very tempting. < 1273797427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Connection reset by peer". :( < 1273797459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you connect to SSH? < 1273797477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno; don't have a shell account handy. < 1273797497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, emergency ping < 1273797512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What was the normal HTTP request? < 1273797516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP 1.0 GET / < 1273797517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1273797522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1273797527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET / HTTP/1.1 < 1273797532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd look it up, but I can't. < 1273797558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to include the Host: header < 1273797667 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there are any Gravity compilers/interpreters out there? < 1273797673 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Gravity < 1273797699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm getting someone to contact uorygl to see if I would be allowed to grant you a temporary account < 1273797713 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-82-50.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1273797736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, I thought it was mathematically impossible to make a Gravity interp < 1273797746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, one that will actually run < 1273797747 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could approximate an interpreter < 1273797759 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess you're right :) < 1273797768 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems like such a cool language < 1273797776 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it can't run anything =D < 1273797780 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273797793 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that, like, the definition of a programming language, that it is run? < 1273797820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1273797833 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm having difficulty getting a response *using netcat to google*. < 1273797900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Anyone know of an easy way to discover if it's MTU issues? < 1273797953 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah -- Sgeo, how do you do red text in IRC? < 1273797968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, it only looks red because your name was mentioned < 1273797976 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I typed: < 1273797976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genuinely red text is different < 1273797979 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% nc www.google.com 80 < 1273797980 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1273797985 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google replied < 1273797990 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hi < 1273797991 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.0 400 Bad Request < 1273797991 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 < 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Length: 1350 < 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:45:44 GMT < 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server: GFE/2.0 < 1273797992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, did you see my privmsg < 1273797994 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work < 1273798003 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah. < 1273798003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, I see it as red < 1273798004 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean because it's my name? < 1273798006 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok < 1273798013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, any luck? < 1273798013 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I have managed to get responses out of Google. *Only to invalid requests*. < 1273798019 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1273798021 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was always wondering why that happened :) < 1273798022 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh same here < 1273798031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, bad connection, or did I mistype the password? < 1273798032 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try telnet < 1273798122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so should I delete the account? < 1273798307 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1273798360 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273798383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was succesful at making me lose every single connection. < 1273798387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1273798393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each and every one. < 1273798401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was? < 1273798411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh < 1273798426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :( < 1273798446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant portion: < 1273798450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you weren't successfully able to actually use it, though, I guess < 1273798457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1.2 < 1273798460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: match: OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1.2 pat OpenSSH_4* < 1273798462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 < 1273798465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3 < 1273798467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug2: fd 3 setting O_NONBLOCK < 1273798470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent < 1273798470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then... *Nothing*. < 1273798472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug3: Wrote 792 bytes for a total of 813 < 1273798483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no clue what any of that means
< 1273798484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it stopped working during the key exchange. < 1273798515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection was made, but everything stopped working as soon as key negotiation began. < 1273798521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can I delete the account? < 1273798524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1273798533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't use it at all. < 1273798555 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're using encryption? must be something subversive then! < 1273798567 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a program to generate LaTeX code, or a good tutorial? < 1273798599 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just write \sqrt{...} for square roots and \frac{...}{...} for division < 1273798604 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you need to know realyl..... < 1273798619 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at lesat that's all I know and I get by < 1273798649 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :host header is mandatory in HTTP/1.1. < 1273798672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1273798680 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about sigma? < 1273798693 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or exponents < 1273798816 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273798838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a theory that it's the router's fault. < 1273798872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you sent something containing HTTP-like stuff to IRC, what would happen? < 1273798874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So nc www.googele.com 80 -> 'GET http://www.google.com/Host:' hangs? < 1273798887 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiddle furiously with the router settings for content filtering, firewall functions and intrusion prevention/detection < 1273798890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifconfig certainly isn't showing any errors. < 1273798910 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fiddle furiously"? :) < 1273798912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that pikhq is probably glad that he's computer-savvy
< 1273798921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, savvy enough to use IRC < 1273798931 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: yes, no other way to fiddle really < 1273798932 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Maedhros777 is wondering Sgeo makes text blue < 1273798939 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1273798951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1273798953 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, I meant "how Sgeo makes text blue" < 1273798964 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1273798968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, watching ifconfig... < 1273798976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is +c color filtering? < 1273798984 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c < 1273798987 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1273798991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No errors. No dropped packets. Just an inexplicable lack of a response. < 1273799013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes. < 1273799035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET http://google.com is meaningless < 1273799062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to -c the channel? < 1273799132 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, who put swedish in the topic? < 1273799237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273799362 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273799383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now with the only IRC connect being to Freenode. < 1273799419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let's make the only room I'm in #esoteric. < 1273799458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAGH WHY DONT I HAVE TCPDUMP < 1273799523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what happens if you disable all firewalls? < 1273799562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am behind no firewalls ATM. < 1273799592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am directly connected to the modem, and I have no iptables rules, and the policy for INPUT, FORWARD, and OUTPUT is ACCEPT. < 1273799626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a DMZ thing? < 1273799634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1273799637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, try a different OS? < 1273799642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am DIRECTLY ATTACHED TO THE MODEM < 1273799653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm on Linux. < 1273799669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, different distro then, or at least LiveCD? < 1273799675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if it's some configuration issue < 1273799675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lack the means to *install* a different OS *because I CANT MAKE ANY NON-IRC CONNECTIONS* < 1273799700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC! < 1273799719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm strongly suspecting that there's an MTU issue. < 1273799761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hown do I USE dcc chat on this < 1273799762 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: After local updates finish, I could maybe help with testing... < 1273799769 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc isn't an irc connection < 1273799778 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is Direct Client Connection < 1273799785 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition you connect directly to the target :) < 1273799797 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, they connect to you (if you are sending (unless you use "passive" dcc)) < 1273799816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the looks of things, any sufficiently large packets are completely and utterly ignored? < 1273799834 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you can change the packet size with /dcc packetsize < 1273799836 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under mirc < 1273799852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is consistent with how the only HTTP response I have gotten is an error page. < 1273799853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, anyone want to send pikhq a LiveCD? < 1273799867 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think there's a tool for discovering the smallest mtu between you and some other host < 1273799875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or invent HTTP-over-DCC? < 1273799876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MTU problems would cause that. More specifically, MTU problems on return path. < 1273799877 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have one, and also my upload is slooow < 1273799906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What happenss if you set interface MTU to 1280? < 1273799908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Fucking wonderful. Fucking *wonderful*. < 1273799917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Same thing. < 1273799923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have been playing with my MTU. < 1273799929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have anything new, but I'll try < 1273799938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have actually had this happen before when my MTU was set wrong. < 1273799975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the other end has its MTU set wrong, I am going to hunt down my ISP and kill some people. < 1273799982 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1273799995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe I shouldn't bother sending a livecd < 1273800048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you at least see me trying to send? < 1273800048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you accept a DCC send with irssi? < 1273800058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1273800112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. Locale generation is slow and I apparently have lot of them enabled. < 1273800174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Anyone willing to set up an HTML server with an obscenely low MTU? < 1273800193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to change MTU in Apache? < 1273800202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I could try and figure out what the MTU *is* for this link? < 1273800212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "ifconfig eth0 mtu number-goes-here" < 1273800228 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_MTU_discovery < 1273800230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um, is there a risk of losing my ssh connection? < 1273800253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Thanks. Thanks for the link that I cannot read. < 1273800275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1273800282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, what MTU shall I set? < 1273800284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D < 1273800306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1000 I guess? < 1273800309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original MTU of Normish is 1500 < 1273800315 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280 is high enough for IPv6 but low enough not to usually be a problem... < 1273800330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done < 1273800336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I can't seem to type into ssh < 1273800337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Could someone google the management IP for a "ViaSat Surfbeam satellite modem"? < 1273800345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.nomictools.com < 1273800388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I broke Normish < 1273800416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crap, I typoed < 1273800429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Connection reset by peer" < 1273800431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot mtu, so I did sudo ifconfig eth0 1000 < 1273800443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the *other* possible causes of that? < 1273800461 0 :biduzido!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1273800531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames pikhq for my typo
< 1273800625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? "Connection reset by peer" causes? < 1273800675 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tracepath says that the path-mtu between you and me is 1500 < 1273800707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Okay, so it's not the MTU, then. < 1273800799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I killed Normish for nothing?!? < 1273800832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273801027 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273801088 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I send few pings there for testing? < 1273801122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Go for it. < 1273801133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using ping -s to google. < 1273801137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And getting truncation. < 1273801176 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to use a sigma in LaTeX? < 1273801203 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 byte IP packets seem to work OK. Latencies are slow. < 1273801262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do have a very, very high-latency link. < 1273801264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do 1500, and return packets do not seem truncated. < 1273801296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your IPv4 address, Ilari? < 1273801306 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've never seen ping times this high before < 1273801318 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long, times are long < 1273801320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Satellite-tastic link. < 1273801346 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must really be in the middle of nowhere < 1273801352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1273801352 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move somewhere they have internet! < 1273801354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know how to do 6to4 address to ipv4 conversion? < 1273801370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: No, I'd look it up but I can't. < 1273801379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall ping olsner
< 1273801405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 10999ms < 1273801411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's helpful. < 1273801414 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, I can ping you < 1273801428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your host is probably set to drop ICMP? < 1273801439 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, I probably am < 1273801457 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5-2.2 seconds < 1273801487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ? < 1273801506 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LaTeX work in the Esolang wiki? < 1273801514 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it and it didn't work < 1273801525 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just showed "$a^2$ " < 1273801545 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means a TCP connection takes at least 4-6 seconds to set up? < 1273801552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah. < 1273801564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More if DNS hasn't been cached. < 1273801647 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273801648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2002:5870:32ae::1 -> 587032ae -> 1483748014. < 1273801661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Thank you for not being helpful. < 1273801684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you stick that in a more useful format, like 4 octets? < 1273801711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait. You can just use the full number, can't you? < 1273801713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1273801724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6999ms < 1273801730 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273801786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmf. No truncation when pinging slashdot. < 1273801816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nor is there any actual access to slashdot via HTTP. < 1273801836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got half a mind to take a sledgehammer to a computer. < 1273801853 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273801869 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is small HTTP server on port 7682. < 1273802091 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they just use a timeout < 6s :) < 1273802096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1273802117 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273802158 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: pikhq: There is small HTTP server on port 7682. < 1273802182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is? < 1273802207 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw request (200 OK reply). < 1273802224 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certainly not getting the reply. < 1273802242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Slashdot, or something else? < 1273802255 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Ilari's system. < 1273802287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273802301 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How large was the reply? < 1273802513 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The page size is about 900 bytes. < 1273802546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273802562 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273802714 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I can't use tcpdump (I have it installed but trying to use it sends load average through the roof). < 1273802730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I cannot has tcpdump. < 1273802934 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I set firewall to log all outbound IPv4 packets. < 1273803074 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273803102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273803217 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe try requesting it again (I should see the outbound packets in firewall logs now)... < 1273803472 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what looks like repeated TX attempts of 52 byte ACK + 98 byte ACK/PSH. < 1273803557 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=98 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=56999 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46258 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK PSH URGP=0 < 1273803586 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=52 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=61552 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46259 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK URGP=0 < 1273803587 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273803660 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273803682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also saw this: DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=938 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=27331 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46261 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK PSH FIN ... No re-TX seen. < 1273803697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1273803710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was there before "I also saw this"? < 1273803716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:13 < Ilari> pikhq_: Maybe try requesting it again (I should see the outbound packets in firewall logs now)... < 1273803719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last thing I saw. < 1273803776 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what looks like repeated TX attempts of 52 byte ACK + 98 byte ACK/PSH. < 1273803796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1273803810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this implies... What? < 1273803837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hmm... What was that 938 byte ACK/PSH/FIN packet there about? I didn't see any retransmits... < 1273803838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP is about as reliable as smoke signals from on top of an active volcano? < 1273803893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, size 7.8 font < 1273803906 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273803982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiviously not MTU problem when packets that small have problems and packets of 1.5kB make through... < 1273804028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273804038 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273804181 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, why IRC is pretty much only thing that works (it is unstable, but...)? < 1273804194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is presumably low-bandwidth. < 1273804202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't connect to irc.foonetic.net. < 1273804215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, mostly I can do IRC. < 1273804486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273804498 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273804502 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273804509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, try wireshark as root, generally it works, probably the tcpdump issue is just a command line flag issue or such < 1273804520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, wireshark will complain loudly < 1273804525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about you running it as root < 1273804539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is up to you to decide if you want to do that < 1273804552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to make my .avis take up much less space? < 1273804569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, compress them? < 1273804583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ogg theora, mpeg, or whatever < 1273804587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zip if you prefer that < 1273804594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, iirc avi is uncompressed < 1273804598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 100% sure < 1273804599 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't run graphical apps as root. < 1273804607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, gtksudo? < 1273804615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, or ksu or whatever kde has < 1273804656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, for me graphical apps for root work with "sudo programname" but not "sudo -s" or su or "sudo su -" < 1273804668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somewhat strange yes < 1273804686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get Archive Manager to compress to maximum possible extent? < 1273804704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which one? < 1273804714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with GNOME < 1273804722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no idea, I use cmd line tools < 1273804735 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: None of those work (I am not authorized for those). < 1273804750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, eh? so you don't have root access locally? < 1273804761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, then you are pretty much fucked < 1273804799 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION deletes the firewall log rule...
< 1273804863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, something like tar -jcf foo.tar.bz2 foo for bzip2, not sure if it is max, but it would be trivial to do something like: tar -cf - foo | xz -z9e - > foo.tar.xz < 1273804870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may not work exactly like that < 1273804875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't test run the latter command < 1273804886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should work, or something pretty close to it < 1273804891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better test to make sure < 1273804908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION somehow doubts it will get 12GB of video down to less than 1GB
< 1273804913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and if you want zip I have absolutely no clue about anything except unzip < 1273804919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well yes < 1273804920 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273804926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes"? < 1273804928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not without lossy compression < 1273804942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, how do I do lossy compression on the command line? < 1273804945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want mpeg or ogg theora or such < 1273804982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, IIRC gzip could compress ~59GiB of raw video data (video dump from game) to about 2GB... < 1273805001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, huh < 1273805038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I don't know, I would read the manual for the the relevant programs. In this case that is probably ffmpeg or such < 1273805051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has large single-color surfaces, which really tends to compress well... < 1273805065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh and -9e to xz might not be a good idea, I wouldn't be surprised if it took days < 1273805073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like just -9 might be better < 1273805076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you asked for max < 1273805153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tgz -9cf . > futurama.tgz < 1273805158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that not working like I want? < 1273805189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1273805194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I have no clue what tgz is < 1273805202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an unknown command to me < 1273805216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tgz doesn't accept options < 1273805239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run tar with -z < 1273805247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, someone made an alias for tar -z? < 1273805262 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, for tar | gzip < 1273805268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strictly worse < 1273805277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well passing -f and redirecting stdout makes no sense at all < 1273805314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1273805369 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273805386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With just tgz futurama.tgz, will it be much larger than I want/ < 1273805405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using tgz < 1273805406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tar < 1273805417 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273805511 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273805542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look. Freenode's back. < 1273805549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any other Internet is. < 1273805651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. Still don't have *the fuckinsadfgnklasdjgh;blohzsadvjhnasb;hg web* < 1273805674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tar -zcf futurama.tgz dirwithfuturama < 1273805678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do not use . there < 1273805685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, because then it might try to include itself < 1273805687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: .avis are compressed. < 1273805692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it would be much bigger < 1273805713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A .avi file is just a container for some video compression format. < 1273805719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, should I include 9? < 1273805723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure? I'm pretty sure they were uncompressed, or perhaps it can be uncompressed as well? < 1273805733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tar doesn't take that option afaik, check man page < 1273805736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a container format. < 1273805744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and can it contain uncompressed? < 1273805754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is one such codec. < 1273805761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost *nobody* uses it for raw video though. < 1273805764 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe phone ISP tech support? Or is the average IQ below CMB temperature there? < 1273805804 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273805950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I'm not getting status on the command line the way I did with tgz < 1273805960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, mhm < 1273805963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1273805983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I want to see the progress as it's being made.. wait, that's -v, isn't it? < 1273805992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt tar itself does that < 1273805993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1273806013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if as pikhq said it is compressed then I doubt this will help at all < 1273806026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1273806128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it seems to not be helping < 1273806129 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1273806146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do I reencode the videos? < 1273806154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I just want to play these things on my phone < 1273806434 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273806926 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1273807291 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273807380 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273807764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1273807858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess my IRC connection has stabled out. < 1273807867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not getting any not-IRC. < 1273808358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you telnet? < 1273808373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try telnet alt.nethack.org < 1273808388 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1273808388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, not < 1273808408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet nethack.alt.org < 1273808461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1273808474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lagtastic, but yes. < 1273808520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1273808638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can gopher. < 1273808653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, irc.xkcd.com#xkcd < 1273808666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I cannot connect to Foonetic. < 1273808707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just switch ISPs? < 1273808713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can bridge a channel on FreeNode with Foonetic < 1273808727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If I could I would. < 1273808736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I can *connect* to Foonetic. < 1273808752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joining #xkcd causes the connection to drop. < 1273808807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you connect to any other channels on Foonetic? < 1273808830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so. < 1273808859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, join #pikhq and I'll direct anyone who wants to help to there? < 1273808935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit it autojoined. < 1273808944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still connected. < 1273808968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1273808981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you receiving chat? < 1273809002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing from #xkcd after "<@res0> puddle dried up" < 1273809011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... Lagging out. < 1273809018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1273809023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll set up a bridge < 1273809025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pikhq < 1273809028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, < 1273809040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pikhq here will connect to #pikhq there < 1273809183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. At the rate this is going I'm starting to think some asswad at the ISP is actually monitoring for connections that use "too much bandwidth" to drop them or something. < 1273809835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping, you're still in Foonetic, right? < 1273810010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq pikhq pikhq < 1273810040 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon < 1273810117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why are you not responding in Foonetic??? < 1273810743 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273810827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273811056 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1273811263 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273811322 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273811776 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273811821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273812167 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273812197 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273812358 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273812551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1273812621 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273812661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently I have 88% packet loss. < 1273812678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amazed I can do IP. < 1273812700 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you connected to your ISP? < 1273812702 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TCP < 1273812712 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can "do IP" with 99% packet loss :P < 1273812722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I send my packets TO SPACE < 1273812732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a satellite sends them back FROM SPACE < 1273812738 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satellite? Sounds laggy. < 1273812750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I normally have 2-second pings. < 1273812954 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't Freenet. < 1273812969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not as laggy as Freenet. < 1273812985 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders what the mail system would be like if it were like Freenet.
< 1273812996 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would be like Freenet. < 1273813024 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess people wouldn't receive messages until they look in their mailboxes. < 1273813031 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is already how it works, so I guess it would be exactly the same. < 1273813049 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satellite Internet: Not As Laggy As The United States Postal Service. < 1273813137 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273813161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273813702 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Plugging in the router < 1273813845 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273813910 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1273814166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Internet success? < 1273814180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have issues with #xkcd still. XD < 1273814193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can browse t3h webs! < 1273814242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you are in #xkcd < 1273814252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lagging out. < 1273814295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1273814316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WEB < 1273814317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP < 1273814320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD < 1273814341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've just been wondering -- are there any esoteric or real programming languages in another language (besides English)? < 1273814352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall an icelandic one being discussed < 1273814362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Perligata. < 1273814388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skrifastreng ("writestring") was one of the commands, iirc < 1273814417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was enough to google it, it's called Grunnur < 1273814436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1273814441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just another command < 1273814458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language) < 1273814506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also leads us to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-English-based_programming_languages < 1273814544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a lot of those are esolangs not based on a real natlang at all :D < 1273814581 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-16-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273814635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess Zuse's Plankalkül is also pretty famous < 1273814672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, /join #xkcd kills my Freenode link. < 1273814673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and presumably german, although the wikipedia sample doesn't really show it) < 1273814691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1273814692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foonetic. < 1273814967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading about GOTO++. If he translates the French correctly, each program is compiled to an intermediate representation and a custom VM to interpret it
< 1273815700 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1273816404 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading ghc because hugs interactive mode is ass < 1273816419 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least from what i can establish < 1273816588 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, i just realised what i typed < 1273816589 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ben@95lx:~$ man hugs < 1273816708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1273816721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN is doing non-ASCII TLDs. < 1273816740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all greek to me. or was that arabic. < 1273816759 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets kommrade.☭
< 1273816794 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if unicode gets a cheeseburger glyph < 1273816803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ This is the hostname of the Egyptian Ministry of Communications and Information Technology. < 1273816804 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ICANN has (cheeseburger) < 1273816872 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1273816928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1273816984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1273817646 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gm|lap: I wurve the man command. < 1273817649 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man mount < 1273817652 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man touch < 1273817668 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man finger < 1273817686 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1273818344 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273818498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1273818546 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273818565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes;yes;yes < 1273818950 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273818950 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273818953 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273818953 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273819092 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273819609 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273819800 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273820630 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1273821940 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273822213 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1273822221 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1273822284 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rawr. < 1273822291 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1273822297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1273822303 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he, she, it < 1273822303 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1273822304 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we < 1273822305 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1273822310 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1273822313 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i screwed up < 1273822315 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i missed a you < 1273822320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and placed a Mii < 1273822396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moi < 1273822398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toi < 1273822556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lui, elle, soi < 1273822640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1273822640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352230 < 1273822650 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"code esoteric language do make real brain make" < 1273822651 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives < 1273822662 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esoteric language code is actually generated by the brain" < 1273822846 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, "talk make esoteric malbolge do do and create code generation" < 1273822855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently crashes translationparty < 1273822866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't always work: http://translationparty.com/#7352244 < 1273822904 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a 2-cycle http://translationparty.com/#7352245 < 1273822915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352249 < 1273822928 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the site doesnt test for cycles :( < 1273822941 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1273822949 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, do you want to lament about it? :P < 1273822982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352252 < 1273823045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352257 < 1273823045 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"talk make esoteric malbolge do do and create code generation" < 1273823063 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives "Malbolge Thus, the code generator can create a powerful statement" < 1273823097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352261 < 1273823244 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352274 - a certain volcano you all know < 1273823249 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separated by " " every 2 letters < 1273823257 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives The Castle District in the North Fiji fatal Raja < 1273823292 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352277 < 1273823336 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say i did a difficult thing? < 1273823337 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1273823355 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as ie ki er ka" gives < 1273823365 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In other words, the ER department" < 1273823445 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1273823452 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352287 < 1273823472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is deep: http://translationparty.com/#7352286 < 1273823518 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352295 vs http://translationparty.com/#7352293 < 1273823579 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, food < 1273823975 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1273823999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1273824000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1273824020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iteresting < 1273824023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Interesting < 1273824034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have managed to get it to produce a word that it cannot translate in either direction < 1273824123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also yet to produce an input including both 'quark' and 'gluon' which doesn't cause it to fail to translate at least one word < 1273824132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352347 < 1273824152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanji makes it into english < 1273824172 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1273824191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "kanji"? < 1273824202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actual kanji? < 1273824206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall look
< 1273824214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should sleep now
< 1273824219 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kan-G < 1273824258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goodness. Actual kanji. < 1273824293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stars hidden in a crowd of his [face-haven]"? < 1273824465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273824844 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1273825017 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1273825268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273825854 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273826257 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1273827249 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1273827472 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... is translationparty broken? < 1273829728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1273831168 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273832546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273833162 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273834301 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273834344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273836698 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-19-42.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1273836845 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273837023 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1273837517 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1273837598 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273838460 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273838972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sleeeeeep < 1273840229 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273840299 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273840315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273840965 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273840996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273841648 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273841690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273841906 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273841941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273842256 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273842309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273842824 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273843791 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273844828 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273846259 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1273847879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273848087 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273848090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273848390 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273848789 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273848841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1273848989 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273849184 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273849586 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273849635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273849969 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273849995 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273850072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273850376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for how to make an AI. It is probably crazy. And someone probably thought of it already... < 1273850436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it probably won't work) < 1273850516 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273850541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter being a pretty safe assumption < 1273850543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically simulate evolution with genetic algorithms, don't aim for AI that can pass the turing test right away, rather aim for something that can respond to it's simulated environment, say, along the lines of a very very simple bacteria, when you have something reasonable there, extend the fitness test to require something more < 1273850544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1273850547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273850550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you think? < 1273850554 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1273850593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure it's been thought of before yeah... < 1273850594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could work yourself up to something that could seem like a simple AI in some hundred years. Unlikely to take as long as real evolution since computers are rather fast. < 1273850611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was it tested though? < 1273850628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say i knew who did it < 1273850631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273850636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it's too obvious < 1273850665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heard that story of Columbus and the egg? < 1273850666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1273850667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect the problem is you are enormously underestimating the complexity of environment needed to evolve intelligence < 1273850700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is even a separate wikipedia page on it heh) < 1273850739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard one such story, which fits the subject so i assume that is it < 1273850774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm I did consider complexity but I wasn't sure how bad it would be, bad yes but no idea how bad. < 1273850775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("anyone could have thought of that" "but they didn't!" essentially) < 1273850782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably I underestimated it yes < 1273850787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes < 1273850822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think there is a theory that much of the final intelligence evolution was due to social interaction between humans < 1273850852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, considering you can get interesting things with breading FPGAs (famous example is that circuit able to detect two different tones, without using a reference clock) < 1273850865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably we tried to evolve to outsmart each other :) < 1273850890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seeing as the other highly intelligent animals are also highly social) < 1273850892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay so you could introduce that in your environment after you get something that is able to be aware of other AIs in that environment < 1273850913 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273850920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for speed reasons you could probably skip that during the initial stages, but it should probably be introduced not too late either < 1273850951 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273850986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but yes, it probably would take too much resources to be feasible :/ < 1273851034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on the other hand I suspect designing an AI with "traditional engineering" may be unfeasible for humans. < 1273851082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as we don't know how _humans_ manage to be intelligent, sure < 1273851102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heck if you wanted to evolve AIs like that you would probably have to make the environment (the fitness function) dynamic too. I mean, consider on earth, life changed the environment a lot < 1273851133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like production of oxygen I mean < 1273851134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. although maybe artificial evolution could skip some of the long static periods. < 1273851166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you mean here? < 1273851188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can think of several interpretations of that statement) < 1273851229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life didn't evolve fast _all_ the time, because the environment didn't always change much. punctuated equilibrium, it's called afair < 1273851247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1273851342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but it still changed, surely you can't just keep the same generation and extrapolate the environment 10 million years? It seems quite possible that then everything will be unfit. I mean, small gradual changes in environment are not too hard to adapt to, compared to sharp changes. < 1273851345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273851377 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273851409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well species _do_ occasionally die out when they are unfit for a new environment, i presume < 1273851438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even if nothing much happened it seems unlikely to have been completely static, and perhaps some random mutation in the skipped generations would have caused far reaching consequences. < 1273851447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't know how much is environment and how much is new competition < 1273851462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just think of production of oxygen, iirc things were pretty static before that for quite some time. < 1273851481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well naturally not completely static there are _all_ kinds of cycles and events < 1273851492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1273851528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I doubt actually simulating the chemical earth is a good idea for such AI evolution. < 1273851602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ooh new idea that ensures a high probability of friendly AI! However it requires some technology we don't yet have. And I have no idea how much storage space it needs... < 1273851624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, basically, model a human. Every molecule < 1273851631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then simulate this system < 1273851641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primates presumably evolved some of that brain to be able to distinguish a lot of different foods (fruit) visually, they have an extremely varied (and time-varying) diet < 1273851655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1273851695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because not all forest plants bear fruit at the same time < 1273851702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1273851705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the tropics < 1273851735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, just simulating a cell down to molecular level should be interesting enough and quite hard. < 1273851762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely convinced emulating humans is the best recipe for friendliness. especially once you try to go _beyond_ human intelligence < 1273851765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might help find out how feasible doing anything more advanced would be (I guess it wouldn't at all) < 1273851785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm true. but at least you would get an AI passing the turing test < 1273851788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not known for being friendly with inferior species < 1273851808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless it suits us) < 1273851892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, strange sound from computer < 1273851929 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273851942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273852092 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1273852134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unable to locate source < 1273852141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't repeat hm... < 1273852557 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273852853 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273853230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273853548 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273853657 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273853707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273853856 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273853857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273854161 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273854635 0 :benuphoenix!~Schrodin@187.sub-97-61-226.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273854680 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just spent three-fourths of my savings on dvds and printer ink last night. Now, I finally have more in my checking account than in my savings account. This sucks. < 1273854798 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and main(){cout << "I'm an idiot that still uses iosttream." << endl;} < 1273854823 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273854861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273855104 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question about brainfuck. How does one output text to standard output using it? < 1273855135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273855387 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273855390 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273855401 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta log off. I'm using my blackberry... < 1273855581 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about telling the world how broke I am. I'm just pissed at myself for not realizing that having $70 in savings is a bad idea. < 1273855607 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1273855635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way that xkcd's irc bot isn't much more sophisticated than our very own fungot. < 1273855635 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right? of course! you were so young! you ran around saying " daddy! the children are going?! the king hast been injured? what's the big deal? so what if we won a war out there! can't it see i love my daddy! the children are going! < 1273855652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1273855710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1273855710 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1273855718 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273855734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1273855734 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1273855744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help style < 1273855744 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1273855806 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273855823 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273855840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1273855840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1273855847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1273855847 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1273855851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1273855852 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: holy crap, that was just making that up in time. < 1273855926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1273855927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1273855927 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1273855932 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, in some programming channel: "<***> its like brainfuck to me" < 1273855950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1273855953 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273855957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1273855960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! < 1273855966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot the fickle < 1273855967 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: " you, mr. de marigny and phillips, across the putrid moat and under the prevailing stimulus my son wingate would often go up to different heights and scan the fnord waste for signs of dim, fumbling terror about the way he knew it would be < 1273856129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to do horrible things to his X server so as to play Portal
< 1273856132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1273856185 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273856244 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay im on my way to making my IRC bot in an esoteric language! < 1273856306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273856308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273856320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273856513 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273857152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273857178 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273857909 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1273858384 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1273858600 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1273858964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1273859475 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273859761 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273860029 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1273860956 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1273861269 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861285 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861320 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861360 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.11.84.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861393 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861455 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273861460 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273861560 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273861580 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273861882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273862363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1273862507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling all alise. Calling all alise. < 1273862513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an alise in the room? < 1273862630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MIB < 1273862643 0 :MIB!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no such thing as an alise < 1273862647 0 :MIB!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1273862703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swamp gas, weather balloons, so on. < 1273862730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so much hot air < 1273862740 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273862895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/1984/mullender.c I love obfuscated C. < 1273862917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VAX and PDP-11) < 1273862975 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273863612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, anything really interesting happen while I was gone? < 1273863621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably eso-wise, but I don't mind too much if it's offtopic < 1273863667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did have odd network behavior wherein I could access IRC and Gopher and nothing else. < 1273864208 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273864419 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273864474 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1273864632 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1273864698 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1273864725 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273864777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that sounds amusing < 1273864809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good God it was annoying. < 1273864930 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273865212 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273866878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my adsl modem is having hardware issues < 1273866960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after rebooting it (due to it becoming unresponsive to dns, then a few minutes later connections dying and finally the webui of the modem itself going down), it had reset about half of the settings < 1273866966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some with garbage, some with factory defaults < 1273866988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I did a clean install of it, and found out I can't let it reboot after it, nor can I restore config < 1273866998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are some settings I can't change < 1273867001 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273867019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pikhq: ever heard about anything like that? < 1273867030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't < 1273867040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I tend not to mess with modems/routers, I just leave them be < 1273867045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1273867051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I was leaving it alone when this happened < 1273867072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I can't use defaults, no password for admin and wep for wlan... :P < 1273867077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way I will leave a modem like that < 1273867097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I need to enter PPPoE settings anyway < 1273867101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it won't connect < 1273867271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus it worked okay before... < 1273867640 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273867649 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1273867677 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273868558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273868575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thought experiment: < 1273868581 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon < 1273868597 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1273868608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make a filesystem on a file, then mount it, then try to move the file into the mounted filesystem, what happens? < 1273868641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1273868649 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o___O? < 1273868665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, it's obvious. < 1273868674 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a problem with it < 1273868694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file would have to be larger than the free space in the filesystem. < 1273868707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Either the system call fails, or a copy of the filesystem is stuck in the file system, and the reference count of the filesystem's file is decremented. < 1273868721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that once you unmount the filesystem, it completely disappears. < 1273868734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to where? < 1273868748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To where what? < 1273868758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whither does it disappear? < 1273868799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same place any non-referenced inodes and blocks go: the free list. < 1273868807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm squashfs is read-only isn't it? < 1273868873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also which system call(s) fails? open/read/write/close or unlink? < 1273868889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the size thing makes it probably the former group < 1273868896 0 :Guest_854!~IceChat7@212088073009.static.sonofon.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1273868912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... rename? < 1273868927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it works between filesystems? < 1273868929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1273868936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1273868941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe the copy and remove is done in kernel then < 1273868948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it doesn't. < 1273868982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename will return EXDEV, which means the move command does open, read, write, close, and unlink. < 1273868989 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1273868993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's the second behavior I described, not the first. < 1273869000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1273869020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but it would fail since unless the fs is compressed it will be larger than the space available on that disk < 1273869029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compressed fs have a tendency of being read-only < 1273869030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries it
< 1273869040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He never said anything about it being compressed. < 1273869049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And many, many filesystems support sparse files. < 1273869058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked. < 1273869062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.o < 1273869069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm good point, but doesn't those need some special command to create it? < 1273869083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear to unmount it, lest I destroy the universe. < 1273869100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, unlikely. < 1273869103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unlikely < 1273869119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more importantly, my computer. < 1273869129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also unlikely, I suppose. < 1273869132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you have to remember mv basically copies the file then removes the original when moving between different mount points < 1273869144 0 :Guest_854!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: He who laughs last, thinks slowest < 1273869163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU mv attempts to keep files sparse. < 1273869167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it hasn't really copied? < 1273869168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within a mount point it will just be moved in file hierarchy by the kernel in some way (probably varies between different FS) < 1273869173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, there's no "special command" to create it. < 1273869178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1273869199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, you just seek and write. < 1273869200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how does it try to keep them sparse? < 1273869203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1273869232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains why the copy worked < 1273869247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mv copies the file to the new filesystem. It then unlinks the file in the old filesystem. < 1273869257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the image on there is likely corrupt since probably it was written to while mv was reading it < 1273869260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that an unlink does, though, is remove the name for the inode. < 1273869289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any program that had the file open is still reading from that inode. < 1273869302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When no programs access it, then the inode is marked free. < 1273869314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, correction: if it was the last hardlink the file will be marked as free < 1273869325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather the inode < 1273869336 0 :benuphoenix!~root@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273869337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, right. You can have multiple names attached. < 1273869340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bit about hardlinks is important, otherwise it would cause havoc. < 1273869353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is no way to find all attached names is there though? < 1273869357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read and write files in the mounted fs without corruption. < 1273869369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure there is. Grep. < 1273869375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, expected, what I said was that the image stored on that fs is now corrupted < 1273869388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm or find /mountpoint -inode or such I bet < 1273869405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, that's because your mounted filesystem is still on the original filesystem. < 1273869405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you can get the inode with either some ls option or with stat(1) < 1273869412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just no longer has a *name*. < 1273869426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the data is still there. < 1273869440 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sheep < 1273869442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what *we've been fucking telling you*. < 1273869448 0 :sheep!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hiato < 1273869452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK! < 1273869457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A UNIX filesystem is reference counted. < 1273869465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm can you have more than one name for a symlink? as in ln -s /bin foo; ln foo bar < 1273869466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ls -i"'s the list-inode option; it's the easiest to remember. < 1273869477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Filesystem-dependent. < 1273869480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1273869508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have ext2/4 handy, and I'm not about to mess around on /boot to try ext2 behaviour < 1273869523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is it easier to remember than ls -l ? < 1273869528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty sure that ext2 filesystems shove the symlink data in the filename structure. < 1273869535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. The file structure. < 1273869536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ls -l you use sometimes < 1273869536 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine structure < 1273869547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1273869555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(along with the filename, permissions, extended attributes, etc.) < 1273869567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so that means it wouldn't or would work? < 1273869579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wouldn't, as a symlink does not have an inode. < 1273869587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The superlative may have been superfluous. Let's settle for "easy to remember". < 1273869626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no symlinks on /boot < 1273869650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed < 1273869678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh anyway this /boot is ext3, I wonder why < 1273869690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ext4 shows inode numbers for ls -i < 1273869694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for symlinks < 1273869699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for ext3 < 1273869702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hrm. < 1273869714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ext2fs implements fast symbolic links. A fast symbolic link does not use any data block on the filesystem. The target name is not stored in a data block but in the inode itself." < 1273869719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has an inode; it doesn't have data. < 1273869720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah ext2 I can't find any of atm, seems I have all my /boots as ext3 < 1273869730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, I'm having a thinko. < 1273869732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273869741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now FAT on the other hand < 1273869743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inode *is* where the file stuff is stored. < 1273869746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though they say the fast symlinks have a maximum length limit of 60 chars. Might be dependant on inode size though.) < 1273869764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a hardlink is a new inode that points to the same blocks as another one. < 1273869771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273869788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is the filename then, is it not stored with the inode? < 1273869797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably in directory structure < 1273869804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directory structure. < 1273869809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't ext4 store very small files inline in the inode or something? < 1273869817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1273869826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hardlinks wouldn't work for those? < 1273869828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ext4 also doesn't use blocks for very *large* files when it can. < 1273869835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about the extents < 1273869844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think hardlinking will force ext4 to create a block. < 1273869863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardlinking *is* a system call. It can do that. ;) < 1273869868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1273869880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlinking must be some system call too I guess < 1273869885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea which one < 1273869897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh symlink(2) XD < 1273869920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure "hardlink is a new inode that points to the same blocks as another one" is true, because I believe it's the inode that stores the link count. < 1273869942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably < 1273869948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have the same inode number < 1273869950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1273869965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep test shows they get same inode number (regular file) < 1273870003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX.1-2001 says that link() should dereference oldpath if it is a symbolic link. However, since kernel 2.0, Linux does not do so: if oldpath is a symbolic link, then newpath is created as a (hard) link to the same symbolic link file (i.e., newpath becomes a symbolic link to the same file that oldpath refers to)." < 1273870004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1273870012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ls here seems to color "link count >1" files differently. If I have noticed this before, I've forgotten. < 1273870034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not here, but then ls on my laptop and desktop follow slightly different rules sometimes < 1273870045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very distro dependant I think < 1273870062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX.1-2008 changes the specification of link(), making it implementation-dependent whether or not oldpath is dereferenced if it is a symbolic link." < 1273870064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1273870225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dircolors --print-database says "HARDLINK 44;37 # regular file with more than one link", so it at least provides a possibility to colorize it differently. < 1273870270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sockets and doors have the same color here. Not that I'm very likely to run across a door. < 1273870312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw wonderful word "a nondirectory" < 1273870322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from path_resolution(7) < 1273870326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I absolutely *despise* about Wikipedia's new design. < 1273870344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They changed the search box location? < 1273870346 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273870351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh don't get me started on google's new design < 1273870353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just as bad < 1273870354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have an uncacheable Javascript file in the head of the file. < 1273870365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That takes *forever* to load. < 1273870367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what on earth for? < 1273870373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is fast here < 1273870377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I use noscript < 1273870386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think I allowed scripts on wp < 1273870415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, those are cachable. What *else* is it that's taking forever? < 1273870423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you have an account you can change it back to the old Monobook skin. < 1273870452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, so I have an excuse to log in. < 1273870453 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273870462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall log in and purge that
< 1273870476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikistalks pikhq
< 1273870520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Wikipedia never considered that some people have high-latency Internet. < 1273870596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why do you use Satellite? < 1273870616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The alternatives are worse. < 1273870620 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273870635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would die with high-latency Internet
< 1273870653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer a modem? < 1273870655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyötyä varoittavana vahtina sekä jätteensyöjänä. < 1273870661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's the alternative. < 1273870665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with modems...? < 1273870667 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyötyä varoittavana vahtina sekä jätteensyöjänä. < 1273870673 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The early days of domestication, dogs have been useful as well as a warning vahtina jätteensyöjänä. < 1273870689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vahtina == as a guard < 1273870696 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273870697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jätteensyöjänä == as a garbage eater < 1273870703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough otherwise. < 1273870708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how fast modem? < 1273870712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1273870720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 30k, normally. < 1273870725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not 56k? < 1273870728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Web designers are assholes. < 1273870730 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you live in a rural place, then? < 1273870733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too much line noise. < 1273870735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes. < 1273870744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, way faster than what I had in 1996 or so. which was ~28k < 1273870757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. In '96 people didnt' < 1273870764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't make megabyte-sized pages. < 1273870779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1273870786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, megabyte? that is small ;P < 1273870797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though more would be annoying over internet) < 1273870805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1273870806 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to run an Ethernet cable to my house and leech. < 1273870831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, logging into Wikipedia *really* makes Wikipedia go faster. < 1273870840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking AJAX. < 1273870859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does cf. stand for in English exactly? I know how it is used but not what the letters stand for < 1273870863 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I want to go to a rural area and figure out a way to get good Internet. < 1273870864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Google's AJAX stuff isn't as bad. At least their Javascript gets *cached*. < 1273870866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1273870868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confer < 1273870868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confer? < 1273870879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "see also" or "compare" < 1273870883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "compare", but I don't know what it stands for either < 1273870883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reference < 1273870887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1273870892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that a real word? < 1273870899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1273870901 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like "confer" is a Latin word meaning "compare". < 1273870903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to watch Ashes To Ashes.
< 1273870905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also an English word meaning something else. < 1273870906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that meaning, it's archaic, though < 1273870911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Murder the phone company execs who *pocketed* the money that was given to them in order to let them offer good Internet in rural areas. < 1273870916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking it up, it does stand for "confer", which is Latin for "compare" < 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definitions of confer on the Web: < 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * have a conference in order to talk something over; "We conferred about a plan of action" < 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * present; "The university conferred a degree on its most famous former student, who never graduated"; "bestow an honor on someone" < 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn" < 1273870923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the English "confer" which means something quite different < 1273870927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means compare in English as well, just hasn't been used with that meaning for some hundreds of years < 1273870927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something fails there < 1273870942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1273870956 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, how will that help? :P < 1273870961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE GAVE THEM 200 FUCKING BILLION DOLLARS IN ORDER TO GET FIBER ALMOST EVERYWHERE IN THE 90S. AND DAMMIT I WANT MY 100 MEGABIT INTERNET. < 1273870962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709] < 1273870972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're the "almost". < 1273870979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the English word "confer" tends to be mostly used in quiz shows, talking about whether contestants are allowed to talk to team-mates before answering < 1273870990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1273870990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I'm the "few hundred feet too far to get DSL". < 1273871002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's "almost". < 1273871015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "almost everybody can get DSL". < 1273871027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's not what we paid for. < 1273871041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We paid for Japan's infrastructure and got this piece of crap. < 1273871054 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another person within a few hundred feet of you who has DSL who you could get some Internet from? < 1273871059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait? paid for japan? < 1273871064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean? < 1273871074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Equivalent to Japan's current infrastructure. < 1273871080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273871085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japan is smaller < 1273871086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than US < 1273871096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1273871096 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1273871121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'll note, $200 billion is a ton of money. < 1273871143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 200 billion USD / 1 ton < 1273871145 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(200 billion U.S. dollars) / (1 short ton) = 220 462 262 U.S. Dollars / kg < 1273871162 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do we know that the phone company guys simply pocketed the money? < 1273871175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1 ton / 200 billion USD < 1273871177 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 short ton) / (200 billion U.S. dollars) = 4.5359237 � 10^-9 kg / U.S. Dollar < 1273871195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i _say_ you're overestimating a bit < 1273871210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hahah. < 1273871228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Because they say as much. < 1273871270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have nearly zero competition here. And nearly zero incentive to improve anything. < 1273871283 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so where do they say that? < 1273871385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 1 ton to USD < 1273871386 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1273871393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type convert < 1273871394 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1273871397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1273871398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that's underestimating < 1273871401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which convert < 1273871402 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1273871409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is weird < 1273871421 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is no command called convert. < 1273871431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it would give an error < 1273871437 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lasdhgopaehfoieesjf < 1273871438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type convert 2>&1 < 1273871438 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1273871439 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bash: line 1: type: convert: not found < 1273871441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1273871450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stderr went into void < 1273871458 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's what it does. < 1273871476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bit the bucket < 1273871503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute < 1273871508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a rather excellent pun. < 1273871524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas it's also mixing metaphors < 1273871539 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is it a cross between "bit the dust" and "kicked the bucket", but it also refers to the "bit bucket", a place where information goes to die. < 1273871579 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273871634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1273871665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but it didn't bucket the bits :( < 1273871674 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273871950 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we can all agree that C is practically Turing-complete. Is it still practically Turing-complete without malloc? < 1273871966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, C is not Turing-complete. < 1273871972 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "practically". < 1273871996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It still has finite memory and is thus not Turing-complete. < 1273872001 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "practically". < 1273872014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then just use a large global array :) < 1273872022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about as stupid as saying "the reals are practically computable". < 1273872031 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I guess that works. < 1273872035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyways. malloc can be written in pure C. < 1273872039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need a very large array. < 1273872048 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1273872059 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Right. < 1273872064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a very large array. < 1273872072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use this as the heap for your malloc implementation. < 1273872074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam. < 1273872076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1273872102 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you didn't have arrays? < 1273872113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they were limited in size. < 1273872124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Then* you're reduced to using the stack for allocation. < 1273872176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is necessarily finite, but only about as much as the rest of memory in C. Most implementations limit it further.) < 1273872355 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1273872639 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does having to use the stack for allocation really interfere with flow control? < 1273872653 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, control flow? < 1273872671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to allocate more memory you need to do a call that never returns... < 1273872699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means essentially using continuation passing style afaict < 1273872709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1273872710 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. And how difficult is CPS in C? < 1273872722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, not that hard. < 1273872746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tedious, but not hard. < 1273872765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you have function pointers, and can manually pass the environment around. < 1273872911 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you use a function pointer? < 1273872926 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just dereference it? < 1273872932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just call it. < 1273872982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you have a void (*foo)(void). To call foo, you just do: foo(); < 1273872994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1273873395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man pts(4): "Pseudo-terminals can also be used to send input to programs that normally refuse to read input from pipes (such as su(1), and passwd(1))." < 1273873404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why, if it is so easy to work around < 1273873412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is the point of them refusing pipes < 1273873553 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273873559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another wtf: "The behavior of grantpt() is unspecified if a signal handler is installed to catch SIGCHLD signals." < 1273873614 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for su(1), it's clear enough. < 1273873622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh? < 1273873639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably to make it impossible for the password to be echoed? < 1273873658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah that could be < 1273873686 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273873692 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do foo | su -c bar | baz, I want foo's output to go to bar, not be interpreted as a password. < 1273873703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, that sounds useful for Normish.. if Normish weren't dying < 1273873709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true. < 1273873709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ? < 1273873713 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does? < 1273873714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's for avoiding stupid mistakes, rather than deliberate attempts to manipulate it < 1273873727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pseudo-terminal to send input to passwd < 1273873735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we could have a working addplayer < 1273873739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1273873753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't adduser have an option to set the password at random and send it somewhere? < 1273873754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, please save Normish kthx < 1273873759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I thinking of the GUI version? < 1273873778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some adduser/useradd have that < 1273873802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is funny how I have both adduser and useradd on my system < 1273873816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different programs < 1273873819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different options < 1273873853 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is the friendly one, useradd is the unfriendly one. < 1273873855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273873860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is the P one, useradd is the V one. :P < 1273873861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is a bash script here < 1273873867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, P? V? < 1273873892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a bash script on arch and a perl script on ubuntu < 1273873916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useradd is an ELF on both < 1273873983 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P refers to things that are designed to be easy to use. V refers to things that are designed to be easy to implement. < 1273874002 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples of P programming languages are Python, Perl, and PHP. Examples of V programming languages are Verilog and VHDL. < 1273874021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1273874027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about C++? It is neither < 1273874034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1273874061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog? < 1273874063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also I doubt implementing VHDL or Verilog synthesis is easy at all < 1273874070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, a HDL < 1273874076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know very little about C++. < 1273874076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1273874097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well I know only a tiny bit and it is more than I want to know < 1273874117 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog is like VHDL, except that the language itself is designed well, rather than simply tolerating good design. :P < 1273874128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Take C++. Add poorly-implemented features. < 1273874132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry. < 1273874136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You start with C. < 1273874141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, that's SystemC < 1273874145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You then go into a loop with that body. < 1273874159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is orders of magnitude stupider than either Verilog or VHDL < 1273874185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: C++ has a Turing-complete type system and the C preprocessor for metaprogramming options. < 1273874209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hehe < 1273874235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that annoys me about VHDL is it doesn't allow recursion in the preprocessor < 1273874239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? do you mean the templates? < 1273874245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they are part of the type system < 1273874246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the syntax allows it, but every simulator I know crashes when you try < 1273874247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of this type system, C++ parsing is undecidable. < 1273874248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1273874274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to hate C++ if you want to! < 1273874276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it /is/ expressive enough that you can simulate bounded recursion by using a bunch of polynomials in the preprocessor, which is arguably worse < 1273874280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: it's easy to hate it anyway < 1273874285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but the templates act all preprocessorish, as in, things you would expect worked if it was in compiler instead of preprocessor doesn't work < 1273874286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1273874290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't hate C++ because of an undecidable type system < 1273874294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other reasons to dislike it < 1273874296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like implementation outside header < 1273874297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1273874298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1273874318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, C++ types are Turing-complete? < 1273874321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a feature < 1273874326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does VHDL have a preprocessor? < 1273874327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1273874330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Unintentionally so*. < 1273874340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, depending on your opinion, pretty much the entire language is a preprocessor < 1273874341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example, please/ < 1273874344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking of for-generate loops < 1273874354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I consider a preprocessor, based on what they actually do < 1273874357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: template struct foo { ... }; < 1273874366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1273874372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is equivalent to the following Haskell statement: foo t = ... < 1273874373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, for loops, except they're semantically unrolled rather than semantically being repetition < 1273874404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would you use recursion for there? I haven't used it but I imagine it would be useful to make stuff like n-bit adders from full adders or such < 1273874415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with generics or such < 1273874417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort < 1273874424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273874426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how do you do Factorials in C++ type system? < 1273874428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sorting network? < 1273874430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1273874432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scarily fast < 1273874436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(log n) time, O(n) space < 1273874442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1273874477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :template struct Factorial {enum { value = N * Factorial::value };};template <>struct Factorial<0>{enum { value = 0};};template<>struct Factorial<1>{enum {value = 1};}; < 1273874478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't you make a perfect sorting network? I mean, just write a huge Karnaugh diagram for all possible inputs or something XD < 1273874493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, you can get O(1) time for sorting in hardware if you really really want to < 1273874499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the pattern matching works the opposite of what you'd expect. < 1273874500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the space term is so horrible I don't want to imagine it < 1273874516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, it only works for an input of given size) < 1273874520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for something like 4 inputs it couldn't be too bad? < 1273874531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n(!)^n) < 1273874540 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that should grow fast enough. < 1273874556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on how wide the inputs are < 1273874558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, size of that O(1) sort? < 1273874562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ metaprogramming should, IMO, be commented with the equivalent Haskell. < 1273874567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing to mention is that there's no such thing as a hardware comparison sort < 1273874574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to know the bounds of the data type to be able to implement them < 1273874576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I meant 4 input bits split into equal sizes < 1273874579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an upper bound thereon. < 1273874581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably two bits each < 1273874585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that sorts rather trivially < 1273874593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm n(!)? < 1273874596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case: factorial 0 = 0;factorial 1 = 1;factorial n = n * factorial (n-1) < 1273874601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that notation doesn't make sense to me < 1273874603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!)^n means "factorial n times". < 1273874606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273874608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1273874615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite bad < 1273874624 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for 1, it's 1!; for 2, it's 2!! (to slightly abuse notation); for 3, it's 3!!!, and so on. < 1273874642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the gates you use in a sorting network btw, you need something clocked I assume? < 1273874655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it was done synchronously < 1273874666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not need as such, presumably you could do it async < 1273874670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and built out of serial 2-input sorters < 1273874692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? I don't think I'm familiar with that < 1273874698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Verilog FOSS? < 1273874701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they aren't a standard component < 1273874705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a programming language < 1273874710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well say "is C FOSS"? < 1273874725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for whether there are FOSS implementations, I'm not sure < 1273874737 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one. < 1273874738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verilog have more FOSS implementations than VHDL < 1273874740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems likely that there are no completely-FOSS Verilog/VHDL synthesizers < 1273874744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked around recently < 1273874746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1273874751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is for FPGA at least < 1273874775 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something that compiles Verilog into a circuit diagram? :P < 1273874789 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A circuit diagram consisting only of transistors! < 1273874797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric (EDA for ICs) supports some limited VHDL for generating substrate layout (or whatever it was called) < 1273874804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: the expensive synthesizers can synthesize for FPGA, then translate back into a circuit diagram < 1273874811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure why you'd want to do that < 1273874812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for generating schematics iirc < 1273874834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we should compile Verilog into BBM instead. < 1273874840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for making a pretty pic to show those who pay you? < 1273874844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1273874862 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem, of course, is that BBM is reversible. < 1273874863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what is BBM? < 1273874871 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Billiard Ball Machine. < 1273874889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1273874889 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1273874891 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing via steel balls hitting blocks and each other. < 1273874903 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1273874909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could design reversible circuits in VHDL < 1273874918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws, hello < 1273874933 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can. Just make your circuit reversible, and it'll be reversible. < 1273874942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw did I mention what I planned to do this summer? < 1273874953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a befunge-93 interpreter in vhdl (or verilog) < 1273874964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but since I took a VHDL course at uni it will probably be that) < 1273874971 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273874979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't have any FPGA it will likely be ghdl-tested only < 1273875004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build your circuit out of Toffoli gates. < 1273875032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, exactly, can you do that in VHDL, after all it is rather high level often. And I doubt many FPGAs have such gates < 1273875052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, a Toffoli gate can easily be described in VHDL. < 1273875091 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.161.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1273875110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well okay, but will it be synthesised into one. Rather than a combination of other gates < 1273875150 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FPGAs never synthesise any gates at all into themselves. < 1273875154 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273875189 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, they use lookup tables. < 1273875197 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: Sorry to bother you, but I was wondering how your method of increasing primes would work with complex zeroes. < 1273875255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, really? < 1273875285 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273875289 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The Wikipedia article on FPGAs gives a pretend FPGA architecture; it's like a typical FPGA but simpler. < 1273875299 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Why would there be complex zeroes? < 1273875305 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1273875322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm. Seems wasteful. < 1273875339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also what about latches and such < 1273875340 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each cell has four inputs, which go into a lookup table, producing one output, which may go through a flip-flop. < 1273875353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you get one lookup table and one flip-flip. < 1273875357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about a latch then? rather than a flip-flop < 1273875376 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what the difference between a latch and a flip-flop is. < 1273875386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, latch would be async afaik < 1273875413 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could construct that easily. Feed its output back into it as an input, and also have the two other inputs. < 1273875420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or however many. < 1273875422 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boom, latch. < 1273875428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that is still clocked < 1273875448 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily, is it? < 1273875449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a flip-flop out of a latch (iirc that is the normal way of doing it) but not the other way around < 1273875454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273875460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could built it out of gates though < 1273875472 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's what I'm saying to do. < 1273875476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two nor with suitable feedback... < 1273875482 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, any idea how to encode with complex zeroes? < 1273875491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would make an SR-latch) < 1273875501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well so would two nand) < 1273875523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that with a single LUT. < 1273875562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm? < 1273875571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make that SR-latch with a single LUT. < 1273875581 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has one bit of state which is also its one bit of output. < 1273875590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well probably if you only have one of the outputs < 1273875607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need 3 inputs, set/reset/feedback < 1273875613 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1273875625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classical SR-latch have both "normal" and "inverted" outputs though < 1273875673 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll have to use a second LUT to provide that. < 1273875679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, because it is symmetric which one is which is arbitrary as long as you swap the inputs too < 1273875685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, or just an inverter < 1273875692 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, would you have any ideas for complex zeroes? < 1273875694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that is a LUT too? < 1273875712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An FPGA doesn't let you use "just an inverter"; all you get is LUTs and flip-flops, more or less. < 1273875729 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, how's this for a Toffoli gate? http://pastebin.com/HFZNVdc1 < 1273875755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, verilog? < 1273875758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1273875775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know verilog, only VHDL (and only basic VHDL so far) < 1273875807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can't be very much different from VHDL. < 1273875823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, somewhat different syntax < 1273875832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically the same lang with different syntax < 1273875844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were originally rather different, but they each stole features from the other until they became basically identical < 1273875861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're still doing it; if something becomes standard in Verilog, it tends to go into the next version of the VHDL standard, and vice versa < 1273875870 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know how complex zeroes can be encoded in a function so that their order is distinct? < 1273875892 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: what are we trying to do, here? < 1273875898 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Polynomial < 1273875906 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm creating an esolang < 1273875933 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reals are encoded by increasing primes, but i'm not sure what to do about complex zeroes < 1273875939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1273875946 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specification isn't really finished < 1273875966 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Polynomial program is of the form f(x) = 3x^2 + x + 7, where the polynomial begins with "f(x) = " < 1273875968 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WUT? < 1273875981 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, shush. :P < 1273875985 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That function doesn't do anything :) < 1273875985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me a bit of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Formula < 1273876002 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that looks interesting < 1273876010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different, but related < 1273876012 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1273876019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about just editing it into the see also of your article < 1273876027 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free < 1273876033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I think this would work for vhdl http://sprunge.us/YMcO < 1273876056 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: looks right. < 1273876065 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any ideas for complex zeroes? < 1273876071 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I'm looking. < 1273876075 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1273876077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that verilog looks like a process what with the "always" thingy? < 1273876080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that article needs categories while it's at it < 1273876085 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1273876088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: what year did the language first become public? this one? < 1273876089 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that < 1273876100 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making it now < 1273876100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh and can't you have multiple architectures in verilog? < 1273876100 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess Verilog doesn't let you constantly execute something; "always" means "whenever", and "*" means "something changes". < 1273876109 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess 2010 :) < 1273876126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well my VHDL was async I think? < 1273876147 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess an "architecture" is what you call what Verilog calls modules. < 1273876163 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Maybe use newton to try to find one (start from complex number), then when found, divide it out and do the same again until you get constant function... < 1273876164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you can have multiple implementations of the same entity < 1273876174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that is what the architecture means < 1273876182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the entity is more like a module. < 1273876184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1273876190 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, how does that work? < 1273876198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros: There's a crapload of stuff on ordering multiple numbers in the logs from a few weeks ago. < 1273876203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could use that? < 1273876208 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1273876215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the entity defines the "outside" appearance. The architecture what is done < 1273876234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: cats added, tweak at will < 1273876238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, iirc you can select which architecture to use, it defaults to one of them (forgot which, ask ais) < 1273876243 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What would I be trying to find from the complex number? < 1273876244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: If all coefficients are real, you can divide complex roots in pairs and keep the function as real. < 1273876263 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1273876270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, iirc part of the reason may be one is only possible to simulate and not to synthesise or such. < 1273876278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is one reason I heard < 1273876282 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1273876287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais mentioned some other ones iirc < 1273876306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, first time I've ever had an edit conflict on Esolang < 1273876309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats actually added this time < 1273876322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, if you use console IO it probably makes a good test bench but not so good FPGA ;P < 1273876350 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I find the "we might be tempted to deduce" slightly offensive. :P < 1273876359 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :) < 1273876367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but yeah, ask ais523 about why you want multiple architectures < 1273876389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: basically, because of the hugely closed nature of most FPGA ecosystems < 1273876402 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a cat in this box. You might be tempted to deduce that this box contains a cat. But actually, by 'in', I meant 'on top of'!" < 1273876405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"better" architectures are more expensive than worse ones < 1273876418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that XD < 1273876420 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: =D < 1273876423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: heh, "in" and "on top of" are the same word in Latin < 1273876444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sounds awkward < 1273876449 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, and the Spanish word "en" means both as well. < 1273876457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can normally tell from context. < 1273876458 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Like x^3 - x^2 + x - 1 = 0. x = i is solution, so you can divide by (x - i)(x + i) = x^2 + 1 to get x - 1. < 1273876466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't hard to imagine situations were it would be unclear which is meant and doing it wrong would be rather irritating < 1273876492 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Why would you divide, though? Because some language statements involve complex zeroes < 1273876507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a reason why the ancient Romans normally used Greek for discussions about science < 1273876521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD < 1273876526 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: you can still divide complex zeros out. < 1273876533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Ensures that root finding won't find that root again. < 1273876544 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, it was a double root. < 1273876555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: And you also see if there are higher-order roots. < 1273876566 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how will you know which order the complex zeroes are in? < 1273876573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, and the Spanish word "en" means both as well. <-- insert obvious joke with regards to Spanish economy < 1273876576 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: You can't. < 1273876588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least i hope it is obvious) < 1273876597 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions, then? < 1273876604 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Newton's method idea. Start at 0, see which root you find; that's the first one you execute. < 1273876605 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using increasing primes for reals < 1273876611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the placed the money on top of the bank instead in it, see not strange they have financial problems!) < 1273876620 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm..maybe I'll do that < 1273876621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see,* < 1273876649 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that limits programs from executing in different order < 1273876664 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I notice that all the language does is start with a number and perform a series of operations on it. < 1273876669 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1273876670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, do the roots have some well defined order at all? < 1273876674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in math in general < 1273876682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for polynomials) < 1273876684 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean. < 1273876686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. Esoteric programming languages limit you. :) < 1273876689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, they don't. < 1273876695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, right < 1273876734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could order any roots anywhere, just do something like order numerically by real, then imaginary. Or write it down and use the ascii value < 1273876736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1273876748 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1273876752 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by the latter method? < 1273876794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, "3+4.2i" == 51,43,52,46,50,105 < 1273876807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what converting it in erlang told me < 1273876818 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, though? < 1273876836 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273876840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you limit yourself to ASCII you can get a number from it that is 6 bytes < 1273876848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, well you can sort by that < 1273876856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a well defined ordering of the numbers < 1273876857 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort by ASCII values? < 1273876860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good method of course < 1273876866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, it is possible < 1273876874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was useful < 1273876874 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not really well-defined. < 1273876881 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose the real part is nonterminating. < 1273876894 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all in integers < 1273876899 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's obvious enough how to fix that. < 1273876901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, bah, double isn't infinite precision ;P < 1273876918 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All complex numbers are Gaussian in Polynomial < 1273876941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, sorting numerically by real then imaginary is probably saner < 1273876952 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have a number with multiple decimal expansions? :P < 1273876958 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limiting...but I may have no other choice. < 1273876969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "undefined behaviour" < 1273876980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is fun combining math with engineering) < 1273876984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well-defined and undefined are mutually exclusive concepts. :) < 1273876987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neither profession will like it) < 1273877004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, what is it you are trying to accomplish though < 1273877014 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of statements < 1273877023 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being as limitless as possible < 1273877036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, so what is the language in question < 1273877037 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar to the ascending primes idea < 1273877045 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Polynomial < 1273877048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, also just add a line number then. Like BASIC < 1273877048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could sort anti-clockwise? < 1273877056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then by distance from the origin? < 1273877063 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... < 1273877068 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: why not just write in a list of numbers? why go via polynomials < 1273877069 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in the complex plane? < 1273877089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, this is #esoteric, that's why < 1273877094 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Because polynomials are cool :) < 1273877095 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1273877132 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting idea, maybe I'll do that < 1273877164 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I did it by order of a in a + bi, everything might be screwed up < 1273877170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, why not in the order written in the program? < 1273877176 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish people would stop that < 1273877180 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a polynomial < 1273877184 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my esoteric programming language: http://pastebin.com/cmLyEHJM < 1273877189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, stop what? < 1273877242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, Newtons method is numerical? < 1273877246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1273877251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there may be more than one Newton's method < 1273877256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different field of math < 1273877257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1273877257 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newton's method is numerical, yes, but too bad. < 1273877266 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall only one Newton's method. < 1273877266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, how many iterations then? < 1273877283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the one I remember was related to differentiation? < 1273877296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough that you're absolutely certain of which root it's approaching. < 1273877297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember details < 1273877304 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newton's method does involve differentiation, yes. < 1273877316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273877655 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could use the ascending primes method with b in a + bi < 1273877693 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b can't be too large because there are certain set possible values of b, so that might work < 1273877715 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only problem would be with i and 2i (output and input) < 1273877815 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas for i and 2i (the special cases)? < 1273877835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, can't b be any integer? < 1273877840 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: sorry, I don't know what you're trying to get across. < 1273877843 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1273877852 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the ascending primes method even work with a + bi? < 1273877871 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 - 3i) -> (2 - 2^3 * i) < 1273877877 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1273877900 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1273877920 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing b can't be too big, though < 1273877926 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, i becomes 2^1 * i and 2i becomes 2^2 * i? < 1273877932 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a problem there. < 1273877945 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're right < 1273877948 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me :) < 1273877954 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for your help! < 1273877972 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to change the wiki page for Polynomial now < 1273877975 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273877978 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit I prefer my language, though. :P < 1273877995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made an algorithm < 1273878008 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming language < 1273878009 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input is two numbers, the output is a binary sequence < 1273878020 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on which paths are taking in the GCD algorithm < 1273878050 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary sequence is used to train (good/bad) an AI what to do < 1273878083 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting. < 1273878088 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the AI is only allowed to communicate to the outside world using pictures downloaded from the internet < 1273878099 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that it can't trick you to let it out) < 1273878114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I don't see why that restriction would matter much < 1273878128 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't it just download pictures of letters? < 1273878137 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1273878141 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not allowd < 1273878146 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you disallow it? < 1273878147 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that looks like a letter < 1273878152 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an AI < 1273878156 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it knows the difference < 1273878166 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but how do you make it heed the difference? < 1273878188 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can make it heed the difference between a letter and a non-letter, you might as well make it heed the difference between right and wrong. < 1273878204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you use a monitor AI to do it XD < 1273878223 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could get exciting. :) < 1273878234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, an infinite series of AIs < 1273878238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err turtles I mean < 1273878246 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1273878308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the monitor AI wouldn't really be able to communicate with the monitored.. no, it could < 1273878317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the monitored AI receives "accepted/rejected" < 1273878327 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The monitored AI wouldn't have to receive those. < 1273878350 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed my mind < 1273878354 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just spit out lots of letters, blissfully unaware that they're being rejected. :) < 1273878355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good move < 1273878359 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary sequence is LEFT/RIGHT commands for a turtle < 1273878361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, mind-changing. < 1273878380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, oh so now it can drive around in letter shapes < 1273878389 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the turtle isn't an AI < 1273878398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can still communicate < 1273878401 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1273878405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also being stabbed by a turtle pen < 1273878407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :P < 1273878421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look those robots can be vicious. < 1273878422 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages should not have output, because communication can be used to take over the world. :) < 1273878428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, :D < 1273878599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: There should be a single output for all computers. < 1273878606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single flashing LED, in NORAD. < 1273878637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know if he should be excited or upset about tomorrow
< 1273878656 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1273878659 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably be excited, since it's probably not a school-required thing. < 1273878664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting: Major marriage in a webcomic (although there's now a cold feet issue). Upsetting: SG-1 will no longer be available < 1273878671 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_oo < 1273878675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1273878719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, NORAD? < 1273878741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Air Force base. Underneath a mountain. < 1273878746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1 available where? < 1273878748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection < 1273878748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1273878750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designed to survive a nuclear blast. < 1273878753 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273878758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection < 1273878761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a bit hard to take off what with the mountain on top? < 1273878762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1273878792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection < 1273878799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you repeated that < 1273878804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1273878806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before and after you quit < 1273878808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was lagging out < 1273878813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "* Sgeo has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)" < 1273878816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think it would be received < 1273878816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lag < 1273878821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proper QUIT < 1273878828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1273878828 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about computers is that it's difficult to make them not output via heat and stuff. < 1273878841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, could be temporary lag spike < 1273878845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I disconnected and reconnected my router < 1273878848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you have to wait a bit to be sure < 1273878849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: We'll magine. < 1273878850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did a /server < 1273878856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manage, even. < 1273878859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, see log (topic) < 1273878863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1273878881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not fake connection issues, really!
< 1273878891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, hulu < 1273878913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something like destroy them if their temperature fluctuates greater than some epsilon. < 1273878931 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273878934 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they'll be able to determine whether they're destroyed or not. < 1273878938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hulu? < 1273878942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the tv thing < 1273878945 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once devised a scheme for ensuring that information doesn't escape something. < 1273878946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so download it all? < 1273878958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you mean, illegally? < 1273878960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, so they can send at most one bit. Ever. < 1273878971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the contrary, they can do it at a symbolic time. < 1273878976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well that is up to you, just tcpdump everything, I guess that isn't legal either then < 1273878996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have time < 1273878996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's still exactly one bit of output. < 1273879000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor space on this computer < 1273879008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how would you ensure that? < 1273879010 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can choose when it's output, that's not exactly one bit of output. < 1273879030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't it change the state later to construct a serial stream? < 1273879036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would it have a one-off manual reset? < 1273879055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *Destroyed*. < 1273879061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the computer? < 1273879062 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. First, put the thing inside a case it cannot escape from. Then, submerge it in a tank filled with hot saltwater, with metal filings to keep it from floating to the top or sinking to the bottom. < 1273879066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1273879069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah I see < 1273879093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, *shrug* < 1273879106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Okay, fine. We use a time machine. We erase the computer from existence if its temperature fluctuates. < 1273879122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it practical to get effectively free data storage by sticking lots of cheap, low-ish capacity (1-2G) flash drives together in a RAID? < 1273879132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but then you will probably kill yourself before you could go back and do so! < 1273879147 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a pipe at the bottom that sucks out the filings, making them into an inverted cone shape, so that the thing doesn't float to the sides. Have the filings detonated alongside a nuclear bomb. < 1273879156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how would that be effectively free? < 1273879175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what uorygl said, plus you need card read, lots of them < 1273879175 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash drives cost money. < 1273879181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, usb ports < 1273879181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have *tonnes* of flash drives lying around my house. < 1273879193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, they are handed out for free at conventions and such iirc < 1273879195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1273879213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some old I got from people who got them at conferences and such and didn't want them < 1273879221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, neat. < 1273879232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB ports may be an issue, but they are very cheap and I have a few already. < 1273879243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well 256 MB and 1 GB are the ones I can find atm < 1273879249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are slow < 1273879267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have them because my parents are doctors and drug companies are allowed to bribe them) < 1273879296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here they aren't allowed to bribe I think < 1273879301 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should become a doctor so that I get free flash drives. :P < 1273879303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably still happens < 1273879326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a cap of ~£5. < 1273879339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in the Information Age, flash drives are common. < 1273879355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck some of the ones I have are also medical related (guy who I got them from works in neuroscience or such... academic, not doctor) < 1273879365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one says something about ADHD research on it < 1273879390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1 GB < 1273879467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you create local variables in VHDL? < 1273879473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, internal signals? < 1273879479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, but it's possible < 1273879481 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, you can get a terabyte SSD for about $3,000... < 1273879483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really very helpful... < 1273879490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and both local variables and local signals are possible) < 1273879492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? internal signals? < 1273879498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know about local signals < 1273879514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how exactly do vars and signals differ < 1273879518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is 1GB small? I remember when I was younger, learning about Gigabytes and thinking that that's a LOT < 1273879537 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also get a plain old regular terabyte hard drive for $100. :P < 1273879539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that's expensive < 1273879551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1273879552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can still remember when the drives were 64M. < 1273879553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SSD I meant < 1273879563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273879563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273879633 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid. You can buy an encrypted 4 TB hard drive for about $1,500. < 1273879644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it to put a 1TB drive in a laptop? < 1273879659 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas doing the same with software would be just as effective and way cheaper. < 1273879713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, buy an encrypted? < 1273879714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1273879717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about < 1273879736 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822158093 < 1273879740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, like AES in hardware? < 1273879744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1273879745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be somewhat faster < 1273879749 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-13-77.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1273879756 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1273879763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but where do you enter passphrase? < 1273879768 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1273879774 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the leading symmetric key cipher? Twofish? < 1273879776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably comes with software. < 1273879820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, don't know. AES isn't too bad < 1273879837 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think symmetric key ciphers are pretty easy to implement in hardware. I don't know, though. < 1273879870 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, using an ordinary processor instead of a cryptoprocessor is not necessarily a good idea. < 1273879893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm? < 1273879899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, side channel? < 1273879902 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1273879933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, a crypto cpu does add some interesting aspects to the design... < 1273879952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't make it async since that would mean widely varying power usage < 1273879965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, widely varying for sync probably < 1273880075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone can analyse your CPU's power usage, you're doing something wrong in the first place. < 1273880149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side channel? < 1273880204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side channel attack < 1273880213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try google or wikipedia < 1273880236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: side-channel attacks are where you attack the implementation of an algo rather than the algo itself < 1273880241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on the other hand you don't want to use more power than required at any point, especially in a laptop < 1273880249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like shining a really bright light into a quantum crypto link to try to make it leak extra photons < 1273880260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that works? < 1273880282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some versions of it, yes < 1273880292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is it has nothing to do with the algo at all, it's something they didn't think of < 1273880303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but how would it work? < 1273880320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just drown out the single photon? < 1273880329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the things use filters to produce photons in the first place, you're trying to guess their settings < 1273880335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of one photon, you get, say, 20 all the same < 1273880342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can measure 19 of them and let the other one go through the link < 1273880348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1273880349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a pretty good idea what polarisation that 19 had < 1273880361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to modify the sender equipment then < 1273880370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1273880373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop that happening? < 1273880379 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1273880383 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, to do it. < 1273880393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to be able to send more than one such photon? < 1273880396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you don't, you cut the cable and aim a blast of light down it back at the sender < 1273880402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1273880404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the photons bounce off the sender and come back < 1273880411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through the filter in the process < 1273880412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that makes sense < 1273880418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you prevent it? < 1273880425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1273880445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, I'm not a quantum cryptographer < 1273880451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273880454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one obvious method is to detect the blast and guess you've been tampered with < 1273880460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1273880499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but would that be viable? Quantum + detecting/measuring tends to non-weird results ;P < 1273880501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the only side-channel attack, of course < 1273880513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you aren't detecting anything you send at all < 1273880515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just things you receive < 1273880517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273880524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can therefore use conventional means to help secure the quantum system < 1273880562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the other side channel attacks apart from compromising the sending/receiving computer(s) < 1273880591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1273880595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1273880618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the possibility of MitMing the entire communication < 1273880636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, setting up a separate quantum link to each of the participating people < 1273880648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are known ways to solve that sort of problem (again, I don't know what they are) < 1273880671 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1273880689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1273880728 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculate the amount of time taken for light to go from point A to point B. If it takes longer, there's tampering. :P < 1273880743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1273880743 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it requires your connection to be a straight line! < 1273880757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, at the conference I was at recently, there was an entire paper about just that method of securing communication < 1273880761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, or not, you can calculate for a bent path, no? < 1273880804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the attacker can't unbend the path. < 1273880821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well okay, but I was thinking "transatlantic cable" kind of thing < 1273880824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also: wormholes < 1273880833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can shorten the path as needed ;P < 1273880839 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think wormholes are something we need to worry about for the time being. :P < 1273880950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also time machine to send the bits back in time < 1273880971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise. < 1273881002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night