< 1273968012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not.
< 1273968019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a purposefully ridiculous theory
< 1273968075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something that emulates rule 110 in Life?
< 1273968090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., produces still-life pixels and spaces, going downwards, of rule 110's evolution
< 1273968100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some initial pattern, preferably settable
< 1273968262 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys when are you going to buy books from me
< 1273968334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like which books
< 1273968335 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273968340 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any books
< 1273968344 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I print and bind them
< 1273968409 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273968482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: by hand?
< 1273968545 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I sew them yes, if I glue them I do it mostly by hand with the help of a roller for the glue
< 1273968591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bound with only the highest quality gold from free-ranging goldfinches
< 1273968830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Any pictures?
< 1273968838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what method of printing?
< 1273969319 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273969321 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273969354 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Pictures of the books?
< 1273969377 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiehwurLrNo
< 1273969391 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEIA5ZR8dP0
< 1273969450 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuiKO5X8HSg
< 1273969556 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He prints them by hand, too.
< 1273969574 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: this is very true
< 1273969589 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273969593 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273969597 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has this bottle of ink, and he uses his body heat to heat it up so hot that a little bubble forms, displacing the ink and spewing it onto the paper.
< 1273969600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope these don't doth require sound.
< 1273969610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAS YOUR CAT GOT TO DO WITH BOOKS
< 1273969611 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not required
< 1273969631 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273969637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, though. Very nice.
< 1273969675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I think I hereby grant thee a Certificate of Awesome.
< 1273969675 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi
< 1273969682 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow thanks
< 1273969688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now... give me a damn book
< 1273969691 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this WireWorld AND NOT gate.  It's impossible to destroy it by means of incoming signals, but nevertheless, it does not work as expected in all cases.
< 1273969708 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I sell the paperback ones for relatively cheap
< 1273969729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAH, PAPERBACK
< 1273969736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me an infinite number of paperbacks, then I'll consider it
< 1273969742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could sell them and use the profits to buy a hardback)
< 1273969766 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paperbacks are nice, I like them especially for smaller books or books I don't intend to read 1000 times or use as a reference constantly
< 1273969823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would pay good money for a nice hardback Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
< 1273969829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't found a nicely printed one
< 1273969835 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is good money?
< 1273969840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :money that is good
< 1273969842 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru
< 1273969845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be best split up into one volume per book
< 1273969849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnibus edition I have is rather unwieldy
< 1273969857 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, the delay between inputs must be at least 5.  Otherwise, if it gets an incoming signal on the negated side, it will destroy the incoming signal on the non-negated side.
< 1273969880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: how nice is the typography, I can't tell from the jewtubes
< 1273969895 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can print up to 1200 DPI
< 1273969903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't typography.
< 1273969918 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well I have no control over the typography unless I type it
< 1273969938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sources do you print from then? I'm sort of guessing this whole enterprise is not entirely legal :-)
< 1273969940 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I do have control over the typography it's perfect
< 1273969965 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I "assume" that the books I print for people they have the "rights" to
< 1273969986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right... but what sources would you, hypothetically, use if printing entirely separately from this operation, and laws didn't exist?
< 1273970012 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your answer to the Queue question on the BCS370 Test was terrific! "
< 1273970039 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically if I were to print books in an illegal fashion I would obtain ebooks from whatever site or server I could and in the last case I'd scan it myself and in the last last case I'd type it myself.
< 1273970073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebooks, right.
< 1273970098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should totally type out the entirety of the H2G2 N-ogy.
< 1273970103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you have invincible hands.
< 1273970110 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebooks meaning scanned books or sometimes raw text docs, in which case I'd format it myself in latex
< 1273970118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N = 5)
< 1273970130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeTeX or plain LaTeX?
< 1273970135 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain latex
< 1273970138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former has more typography and font support.
< 1273970145 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they're online >.>
< 1273970149 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it has more cocks
< 1273970150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I own them.
< 1273970158 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only going to download the ones that I own physically though
< 1273970160 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports dumb fonts like TRUE TYPE and whatever
< 1273970168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, there aren't many good text fonts available for LaTeX.
< 1273970175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And XeTeX /does/ undeniably have more microtypography support.
< 1273970176 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Very very wrong!
< 1273970190 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Latex has wonderful microtypography support
< 1273970205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273970210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XeTeX has better.
< 1273970217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very highly doubt it
< 1273970234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, http://nitens.org/taraborelli/latex shut up and print a book in Garamond, now.
< 1273970242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Considering it was one of its design aims...
< 1273970247 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that
< 1273970264 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273970265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1273970283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect the first hardback, LaTeX-set volume of H2G2 by tomorrow.
< 1273970284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273970300 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, who makes money from DNA books?
< 1273970301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if possible, yesterday.
< 1273970305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha
< 1273970309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: the publishers and presumably whoever inherited the rights
< 1273970311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mainly the publishers
< 1273970316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably his widow
< 1273970319 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't care too much about the publishers
< 1273970336 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf
< 1273970355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out if he /has/ a widow
< 1273970366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jane Belson
< 1273970385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I agree that LaTeXZ has superb microtypography support.
< 1273970388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LaTeX
< 1273970391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that XeTeX extended such.
< 1273970416 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only advantage I see of XeTeX is its ability to support arbitrary fonts essentially
< 1273970427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and more convenient Unicode.
< 1273970434 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too
< 1273970481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should bind some books in olde-style cases.
< 1273970495 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could
< 1273970525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate dust jackets
< 1273970548 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do leather covers, book cases, headbands, bookmark ribbons, bla bloo bla bla
< 1273970563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All for the low low price of $5,000,000
< 1273970568 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hahaha
< 1273970616 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The regular old paperbacks at around 8x5" at <400 pages, I charge $8 + 4 for shipping :O
< 1273970640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much do you charge for hardbacks?
< 1273970699 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well first let me clarify that hardback also implies a sewn binding. Anyway I charge more so around $25 though I contemplate charging more only because it takes so much time and I haven't been charging for that
< 1273970734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a hardback that you re-typeset :P
< 1273970738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273970747 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use expensive book cloth and acid free glues and 100% linen threads and real beeswax and stuff
< 1273970760 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I retypeset, depends really, I'd probably talk about it in PM and whatever
< 1273970790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now! What about FIVE of those!"
< 1273970795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get the piggy-bank...
< 1273970862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... 180 pages, 208 pages, 160 pages, 192-224 pages (UK-US), 229-240 pages (UK-US). But that's paperback, and so useless.
< 1273970899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So clearly I need to be using my endless bank account. I'll go get Hilbert
< 1273970910 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to be cheap
< 1273970940 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My original goal was to provide books cheaply for people, so cheap that only materials costs are covered, and nothing else (so I don't get any profit)
< 1273970983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you re-typeset the entirety of a book series then printed it in hardback by hand you deserve some bloody profit.
< 1273970991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*print
< 1273970995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm crazy like that :P
< 1273971010 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273971076 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ideally I'd want profit (though the profit would go to better supplies since shit is so expensive)
< 1273971101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're like the Folio Society... except you're only one person and don't require buying like 50 books just to get one
< 1273971111 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yes
< 1273971111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not really much like that at all
< 1273971146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! You should... print interactive fiction. In hardback.
< 1273971151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly this is an excellent, feasible idea.
< 1273971239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1415009849&searchurl=an%3Ddouglas%2Badams%26bi%3D0%26bx%3Doff%26ds%3D30%26sortby%3D1%26x%3D58%26y%3D14
< 1273971252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE BEEN OUTBID BY �1252
< 1273971274 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273971349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I kind of have an urge to try and typeset h2g2 now :/
< 1273971378 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it
< 1273971381 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I will print
< 1273971493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so good at typesetting prose with LaTeX though.
< 1273971500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really done it before.
< 1273971504 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Word
< 1273971549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck no; Adams (the second Macintosh owner in the UK) would roll in his grave... as would typography.
< 1273971557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, you know, I find Word much less usable than LaTeX.
< 1273971632 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay fine GROFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
< 1273971638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LULZ GROFF
< 1273971641 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be so cool if you used groff
< 1273971643 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be so happy
< 1273971644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fortunately for you, TeX is very, very capable of typesetting prose. :)
< 1273971654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author of groff is awesome, just look at http://jclark.com/bio.htm
< 1273971664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was educated at Charterhouse. I read Mathematics and Philosophy at Merton College, Oxford, where I obtained Class I Honours." + that picture
< 1273971664 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273971668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could he be more upper-class
< 1273971679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Only if he was the Queen
< 1273971682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, but not by much.
< 1273971689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kings are lower-class than queens.)
< 1273971700 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[gtn]roff is so classy
< 1273971709 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love anyone who typesets documents with it
< 1273971717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having said that I have a completely un-classy friend who goes to Oxford... but not Merton College, so there.
< 1273971720 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love them more if they typeset mathematics with it
< 1273971727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> alise: Fortunately for you, TeX is very, very capable of typesetting prose. :)
< 1273971730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf
< 1273971735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO SET THESE TO
< 1273971740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Eqn, dude! Eqn!
< 1273971742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eqn
< 1273971746 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know!
< 1273971748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH EQN http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps
< 1273971750 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love when people use EQN
< 1273971759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR MOTHER
< 1273971761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEAVES SUMS AT A SMALL SIZE NO MATTER WHAT FUCK YEAH
< 1273971770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITTLE SIGMA SITTING AROUND THERE AIN'T DOIN' SHIT
< 1273971791 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hahaha. I just like how old-style it looks, sort of.
< 1273971794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how eqn fails horribly at tall square roots
< 1273971797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps
< 1273971800 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it looks like a typesetter actually typeset it
< 1273971804 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hahaha I saw
< 1273971811 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the huge symbol
< 1273971824 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, I *like* that
< 1273971828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eqn looks like the kind of stuff you see in old books, yeah
< 1273971831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i like it apart from the raggedness
< 1273971850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX-style typesetting became needed when mathematical notation got really huge and crufty and complex
< 1273971858 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273971859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we really needed something that could size any damn equation
< 1273971863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what
< 1273971866 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes haha
< 1273971890 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lout is like the latex groff
< 1273971920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing of Lout
< 1273971992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like ATM i've got about modem-level speed. But hell, at this point I'LL TAKE IT.
< 1273972004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That at least means I'm getting packets!
< 1273972049 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ftp://ftp.cs.usyd.edu.au/jeff/lout/lout-3.38-user.ps.gz
< 1273972053 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user guide to lout
< 1273972073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it groff-made-latex or latex-made-groff? I know it's based on a functional language.
< 1273972090 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groff-made-latex-ish
< 1273972104 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you look at it, you'll think groff made it
< 1273972121 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The style of things is very groffy
< 1273972129 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more programmatic like latex
< 1273972147 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has decent math support
< 1273972217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a digital typesetting system that produced results that look like the old, pre-computer typesettings.
< 1273972221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing quite reaches that level.
< 1273972251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, TeX is the closest there is.
< 1273972278 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not sad really. I mean, I am kind of happy it can't be replicated
< 1273972292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273972303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more convenient to use computers; if we can have convenience and quality, that is all the better.
< 1273972305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly for faggy reasons like that typesetters (human ones) have their mark in history and even a computer can't do their job :)
< 1273972310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And LilyPad tries very hard to manage it for music.
< 1273972313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nostalgia for older, more difficult ways isn't productive.
< 1273972322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typesetting is a dead profession, so we can only try to improve the state of play.
< 1273972330 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think it's necessarily better quality
< 1273972333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *LilyPond.
< 1273972338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. That.
< 1273972341 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think so many people suck at typing these days. By typing I mean typesetting
< 1273972347 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the computer
< 1273972356 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people just whip something up and publish it :(
< 1273972359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, I don't know. Traditional typesetting has some sort of precise quality that its digital counterpart lacks.
< 1273972360 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very sad about that
< 1273972381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems to be, somehow, perfect by less than a "pixel".
< 1273972386 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you be sad if programming becomes obsolete due to the Singularity?
< 1273972390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speaking metaphorically -- bullshitting, that is -- here, but you know what I mean.
< 1273972412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I kind of think a singularity would adjust my value system so I don't value things like that, because valuing things that aren't there any more would make me less happy.
< 1273972414 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I sort of get what you mean. I still think its the authors' fault
< 1273972416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, you see, traditional typesetting was done by people who had labored long to become experts in the craft.
< 1273972424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: *it's; sorry, I arguably have OCD.
< 1273972427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273972432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST. CORRECT. GRAMMAR
< 1273972435 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the '
< 1273972446 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you just used incorrect grammar!
< 1273972447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern typesetting is done by retards who think Word is a replacement for a good typesetter.
< 1273972456 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah :((((((((((((((((((((((((
< 1273972460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it, at *best*, is a replacement for a freaking typewriter)
< 1273972476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine; MUST. CORRECT. ORTHOGRAPHY
< 1273972481 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would LyX be a replacement for?
< 1273972499 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't replace anything
< 1273972515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX seems to me perennially useless.
< 1273972531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want precise typesetting, you need to tweak, analyse, even specify, so you need plain LaTeX.
< 1273972543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to take notes, or make a quick document, it is too heavy.
< 1273972545 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX is just easier for people, but unfortunately it churns out meh results
< 1273972554 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People think that if something uses latex, it's automagically pretty
< 1273972582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true for simple typesetting purposes.
< 1273972584 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes automagically pretty
< 1273972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Have you ever used ConTeXt?
< 1273972611 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't my homework look somewhat nice
< 1273972612 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked at it but have had no desire to.
< 1273972614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's more focused on publishing than LaTeX.
< 1273972620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am perfectly fine with (La)TeX
< 1273972622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is especially suited for structured documents, automated document production, very fine typography, and multi-lingual typesetting."
< 1273972622 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use styles defined by someone else, because I'm clueless
< 1273972637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ConTeXt from the ground up is a typography and typesetting system meant to provide users easy and consistent access to advanced typographical control�important for general-purpose typesetting tasks. The original vision of LaTeX is to insulate the user from typographical decisions�a useful approach for submitting, say, articles for a scientific journal."
< 1273972643 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: There's no problem with using other styles and stuff
< 1273972659 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, the fact that I'm clueless about what makes something look goo
< 1273972661 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good
< 1273972666 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: The problem is when people use another person's style then they deviate from it
< 1273972676 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well *I* want it *THIS* way"
< 1273972686 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me makes a change to the style
< 1273972697 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HM I also want this margin a little smaller"
< 1273972702 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me makes another change
< 1273972717 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these adjustments just ruin it.
< 1273972726 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be too clueless to attempt something like tha
< 1273972728 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1273972735 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Talk to a typesetter then :)
< 1273972739 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can minor adjustments "ruin" something?
< 1273972761 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: That minor dent in that Ferrari ruins it
< 1273972776 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does?
< 1273972787 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Of course from a functional standpoint it doesn't.
< 1273972809 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers arguing with his dad about some scratch or something in the new car his dad was going to buy. I didn't really care, my dad did.
< 1273972820 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I care about the content and aesthetics of a document.
< 1273972840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some minor changes are okay, but most often the minor changes are made by someone clueless
< 1273972841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: even from a functional standpoint,
< 1273972849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brain/visual system is very sensitive to minor typographical changes
< 1273972854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we have the concept of "rhythm"
< 1273972864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unless there is a very simple, monotonous rhythm to a text, it's harder to read
< 1273972872 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, makes sense
< 1273972892 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if a document uses the same style througout, then wouldn't that be preserved, even if the style is different?
< 1273972910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Reading stuff typeset by TeX makes me really wish that all computer text display was as well-done.
< 1273972922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: If you change a well-set margin, you ruin the flow.
< 1273972941 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: It depends on the changes. Not all changes ruin everything. Some changes can be beneficial
< 1273972959 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But changing all headings to bold-italic-underline in Papyrus is ugly
< 1273972986 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, which is better/worse: Snapdragon processor, or 866MHz Pentium III
< 1273973014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snapdragon is better, almost certainly.
< 1273973021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being a modern, 1GHz processor.
< 1273973027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ew, Papyrus.
< 1273973041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to decide on a typeface to have a go at typesetting H2G2 in.
< 1273973047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be really, really British.
< 1273973068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garamond doesn't seem to sit right. It's too flowery, too subtly-serifed-at-the-edges.
< 1273973083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion seems too... wimpy?
< 1273973091 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you want a serif font?
< 1273973095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I do.
< 1273973100 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, of course he d
< 1273973103 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he said
< 1273973104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Runes!
< 1273973106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, look: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/AdobeGaramondSp.svg
< 1273973107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273973112 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frowns at not being able to remember the meaning of this sentence.
< 1273973113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little tweaks and curves at the edges.
< 1273973116 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyötyä varoittavana vahtina sekä jätteensyöjänä.
< 1273973118 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The early days of domestication, dogs have been useful as well as a warning vahtina jätteensyöjänä.
< 1273973125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not something that seems to fit the text.
< 1273973129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Sans-serif not on computer screens should make everyone cry.
< 1273973136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for alise to explain that learning a language is not about learning the meaning of each individual sentence.
< 1273973137 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: baskerville
< 1273973151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yes, I'm thinking Baskerville.
< 1273973164 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is one of my favoritest fonts ever
< 1273973167 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as someone explained to me, that's actually ". . . have been useful as a warning as well as as trash-eaters".
< 1273973173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly British.
< 1273973175 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's a lot of ass.
< 1273973179 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is classy, old, pretty, hardcore, yes british
< 1273973182 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to something to show me what Baskerville looks like?
< 1273973191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville
< 1273973191 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is elegant but not flowery (like garamond)
< 1273973203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the H2G2 omnibus I have may be typeset in Baskerville.
< 1273973230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: In order to learn a language, you should use said language.
< 1273973233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1273973235 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that uppercase Q, it looks ordinary
< 1273973243 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't
< 1273973246 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all 0%
< 1273973247 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like "flowery"
< 1273973251 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks wonderful
< 1273973259 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flowery *can* be nice
< 1273973262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville's uppercase Q is quite unique.
< 1273973272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with flowery. But you have to choose the face that fits the text.
< 1273973280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is one thing H2G2 is not, it is flowery.
< 1273973283 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He's saying the rest of the text looks ordinary
< 1273973286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1273973294 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DISAGREE >:(
< 1273973295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most typefaces look ordinary to most people.
< 1273973301 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are quite nice
< 1273973304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably shouldn't be noticed; the whole point is to support flow.
< 1273973306 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, interesting
< 1273973313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't deride him for his (uninformed) opinion.
< 1273973322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people think MS Comic Sans is a perfectly workable font.
< 1273973322 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're old-style, which is probably what you are noticing
< 1273973344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Why interesting? Because they are text figures?
< 1273973350 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not that really, just some people can't tell the difference between two fonts
< 1273973366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Numbers are /meant/ to hang below the baseline.
< 1273973385 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more noticing the way that some numbers were above others, I think
< 1273973388 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I *guess* I could learn Finnish by talking to people who speak only Finnish.
< 1273973393 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without that, they still look interesting
< 1273973400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like Hoefler & Frere-Jones?
< 1273973403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say yes
< 1273973403 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would speak entirely using the nominative, accusative, and genitive, though.  :P
< 1273973413 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The italics look nice. But the regular letters.. are just letters
< 1273973431 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a good thing
< 1273973466 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes of course. They make a lot of classy fonts
< 1273973479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like Didot?
< 1273973479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Baskerville looks absolutely gorgeous.
< 1273973480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say no
< 1273973502 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font itself costs money?
< 1273973506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: lol
< 1273973509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: so naive :)
< 1273973515 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there a free Baskerville font somewhere?
< 1273973519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Yes, welcome to professional fonts.
< 1273973530 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping I could use it for homework or something
< 1273973536 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure there's a free version out there.
< 1273973538 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: >_>
< 1273973540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeface designers make a nice living from their works, as do digitisers.
< 1273973541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be amazed that there *exist* free fonts that don't gouge your eyes out.
< 1273973556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it shouldn't be so, perhaps it's yet another instance of that abuse known as copyright.
< 1273973558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, probably.
< 1273973560 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273973560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is how it is.
< 1273973577 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I feel *embarrassed* to typeset something in baskerville that isn't something I'm very proud of
< 1273973594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, as a typeface itself cannot be copyrighted, you would be perfectly free to create your own .ttf file of Baskerville.
< 1273973604 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Didot is a wonderful font
< 1273973613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: *typeface; come on, let's be pretentious.
< 1273973648 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what
< 1273973648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno; I found some series of typefaces describing themselves on Flickr and set in Didot was "I am a whore." I couldn't disagree.
< 1273973660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Didot is a typeface not a font :(
< 1273973666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather... a group of typefaces, but shut up
< 1273973676 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fuck da police
< 1273973681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Literally)
< 1273973683 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Anyway I was kidding
< 1273973688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Good <3
< 1273973694 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like Didot, I think a lot of it is very fugly
< 1273973698 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Didot?
< 1273973703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didot_(typeface)
< 1273973710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's French.
< 1273973719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of "that pretentious French font that looks like wine and cheese".
< 1273973722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're thinking of Didot.
< 1273973735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yeah, I don't find Didot readable; it's like an artistic manifesto gone wrong.
< 1273973743 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273973758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that the bits that are thick are not so important and the bits that are thin that are important, so you feel like you're reading a reverse image of sorts...
< 1273973804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that H2G2 isn't Hoefler Text
< 1273973814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just iterating through my favourite typefaces...)
< 1273973815 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much to say about typography, but I really like Adobe Caslon Pro.
< 1273973817 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's like half the letters were just sheared at some angle
< 1273973822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably isn't Mercury.
< 1273973824 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other letters were made into okay italics
< 1273973834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caslon is quite nice.
< 1273973840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caslon is great
< 1273973864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Courier!
< 1273973865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The italic J is problematic though; I always read it as an F.
< 1273973867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273973875 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love courier
< 1273973883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This italic J? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CaslonSp.svg
< 1273973887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Hopefully not for text.
< 1273973891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1273973900 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well no shit
< 1273973912 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code listings and what have you
< 1273973917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Reply to Courier for disambiguity: O0
< 1273973945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I dunno, I don't see any reason code should be monospaced. IMO we should embrace what the mathematicians found; that rich notation is useful.
< 1273973964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like we're still at the analogy of the "writing out equations in words with minimal symbols" stage.
< 1273973967 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not useful for computers
< 1273973971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the word "awkward" would be much less awkward if it were spelled "acquard".  Except that's not really a valid way to spell that.
< 1273973975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK alise, you go have fun with Fortress, we'll keep using real languages.
< 1273973978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a failing of computers.
< 1273973981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't support Fortress.
< 1273973981 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Auquard", on the other hand... I like that spelling.
< 1273973993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And are you really dismissing all programming language research?
< 1273974006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a programming language researcher ... yes.
< 1273974007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, nice idea, kid... too bad it's not in a REAL language, like C."
< 1273974009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, nice idea, kid... too bad it's not in a REAL language, like C."
< 1273974014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[and so on]
< 1273974022 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's easy to print, it's easy to write, it's easy to read, no syntax has to be learned...or minimal at least, and there are enough things to tell things apart
< 1273974033 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wow, you managed to get all that out of "you go have fun with Fortress, we'll keep using real languages"?
< 1273974034 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real programming (tm) is not like math at all
< 1273974045 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never be that skilled at reading between the lines.
< 1273974060 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We aren't going to use weirdo identifiers to denote NumberOfCustomers
< 1273974061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The pattern was obvious, and I've observed facets of it in Gregor before: "[Thing we should do]" "I reject that because it hasn't already been done"
< 1273974064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I nose, it's amazo.
< 1273974074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I didn't say we should use mathematical notation.
< 1273974084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, that's just how I express that it's a terrible idea.
< 1273974087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said we should embrace the /lesson/ of mathematical notation: that something more than text is useful.
< 1273974105 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's also harder to input
< 1273974109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I should really learn not to express ideas too radical in the... esoteric... programming... languages... channel...
< 1273974118 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, mathematical notation isn't that hard to type.
< 1273974122 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for jebus christ's sake, inputting math isn't even all that easy
< 1273974123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Of course; that's a failing of current input designs. We can't go all-out like mathematical notation. I didn't say I knew the happy medium.
< 1273974125 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes it is
< 1273974126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said we should find it.
< 1273974132 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on your editor.
< 1273974134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it should always be easy to input on computers.
< 1273974139 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radical idea: Time is a dodecahedron!
< 1273974152 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time is a dodecahedron" is a type error.
< 1273974153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I AGREE.
< 1273974159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a type error
< 1273974164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We should definitely input programs using NOTHING BUT KANJI
< 1273974172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except hmm, maybe that actually makes sense.
< 1273974185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ooooooooooh print Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass
< 1273974204 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, suppose that the domain of physics' time variable is a dodecahedron, with calculus and everything defined in the natural way...
< 1273974211 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're supposed to ask me for math books and stuff
< 1273974216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I know.
< 1273974225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you said "any books", so I am happily misinterpreting to infinity.
< 1273974227 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I have no idea how that would work.
< 1273974232 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: any books is true
< 1273974243 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wait, are you saying we can get any book?
< 1273974253 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most books
< 1273974261 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to have changed scientific thought in a correct way entirely by accident
< 1273974274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Feynman did that, on a very small scale.
< 1273974291 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273974294 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273974296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Print "Making Resin for Dummies".
< 1273974303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone handed him a huge, indecipherable diagram and started spieling about it.
< 1273974315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman just plain did a lot.
< 1273974328 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he found a random symbol, guessed that it denoted a valve, and said, "Uh... what happens if this valve gets stuck?"
< 1273974345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman was an algorithm that turned women into algorithms that turn bongos into theorems.
< 1273974349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was the first metamathematician.
< 1273974359 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the guys looked at that spot for a moment, and said, "Gosh, you're absolutely right."
< 1273974366 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so they thought he was a genius.
< 1273974371 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, you know, was kind of true.
< 1273974383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A first-order mathematician, indeed!
< 1273974399 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the diagram about, and what were the consequences?
< 1273974409 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you making it up, because Google's not giving me any love
< 1273974411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to grab my copy of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" from parent's house...
< 1273974414 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone listen to my fave song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk
< 1273974428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagram was of some piece of machinery that processed nuclear material.
< 1273974440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that mistake hadn't been caught... something really bad might have happened.  :P
< 1273974518 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: listen to my fave song
< 1273974531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's it by and what's it about?
< 1273974541 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symphony of Science
< 1273974566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it program music?
< 1273974601 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good music end of story
< 1273974645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: 習 英語 or else 私 will keep on 使ing 漢字 at 君. Oh, and yes, this 是, 中 真, 勿事 but 英語. :P
< 1273974655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh, "Sinfonia Domestica".
< 1273974670 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A symphony about stuff that happens around the house.
< 1273974700 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fucking fuck or else fuckers will keep on fucking fucking at fuck. Oh, and yes, this fucker, fucking fucker, fucked but fucking fucks
< 1273974734 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 習 英語 or else 私 will keep on 使ing 漢字 at 君. Oh, and yes, this 是, 中 真, 勿事 but 英語
< 1273974736 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe that went through as Chinese.
< 1273974788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1273974800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked surprisingly well, though.
< 1273974813 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto jp en 習 英語 or else 私 will keep on 使ing 漢字 at 君. Oh, and yes, this 是, 中 真, 勿事 but 英語
< 1273974815 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974823 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the same?
< 1273974826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Learn English or else I will keep on using kanji at you. Oh, and yes, this is, in fact, nothing but English."
< 1273974843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en 習 英語 or else 私 will keep on 使ing 漢字 at 君. Oh, and yes, this 是, 中 真, 勿事 but 英語
< 1273974845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273974847 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will keep on learning English, or else use kanji ing at you. Oh, and yes, this Shi true medium, but 勿事 English
< 1273974848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?
< 1273974866 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Google's actual translation from Japanese.
< 1273974871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1273974875 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck at Japanese
< 1273974885 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en ウィキプロジェクトのための名前空間新設に関する投票が行なわれています。投票期限は、5月30日です。
< 1273974888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voting period は, May 30 です.
< 1273974899 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en ウィキプロジェクトのための名前空間新設に関する投票が行なわれています。
< 1273974903 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ウ ィ キ プ ロ _ GUI ェ ク Suites Circular ta の の に former space off the new line na si ru voting ga i ma si わ れ て.
< 1273974915 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former space off the new line!
< 1273974962 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, PdaNet has a trial period thing. After the trial period, I can't use https:// anymore
< 1273974981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Try translating from Japanese?
< 1273975099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: いいえ、日本語がどんどん上手になる。それが日本語じゃなくて、漢字で書いた英語だった。
< 1273975113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :でも、これは本当に日本語だ。
< 1273975162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how that gets mangled.
< 1273975171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate いいえ、日本語がどんどん上手になる。それが日本語じゃなくて、漢字で書いた英語だった。
< 1273975173 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese, not that it was written in English characters.
< 1273975183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273975206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did it even do with the first sentence?
< 1273975209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate いいえ、日本語がどんどん上手になる。
< 1273975211 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the Japanese have become increasingly well.
< 1273975215 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ヽ(´ー｀)ノ
< 1273975217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273975225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wow* that mangles it.
< 1273975254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting perfection, what with Japanese being very context-dependent, but... Damn.
< 1273975257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just *bad*.
< 1273975268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate でも、これは本当に日本語だ。
< 1273975270 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, this is really Japanese.
< 1273975282 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate  (ﾉﾟοﾟ)ﾉﾐ★゜・。。・゜゜・。。・゜☆゜・。。・゜゜・。。・゜
< 1273975283 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- °
< 1273975284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a workable translation.
< 1273975367 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼ 一二三┻━┻ 一二三┻━┻ 一二三┻━┻ 一二三┻━┻ 一二三┻━┻}。々°)ﾉ
< 1273975508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto jp en 阿波罗8号是阿波罗计划中的第二次载人飞行任务，三位执行此任务的宇航员分别为指令长弗兰克·博尔曼、指令舱驾驶员詹姆斯·洛威尔以及登月舱驾驶员威廉·安德斯。
< 1273975511 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members &#23041;&#24265;&#23433;&#24503;&#26031;.
< 1273975518 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful.  :P
< 1273975540 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: thats chinese not japanese.
< 1273975552 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto ch en 阿波罗8号是阿波罗计划中的第二次载人飞行任务，三位执行此任务的宇航员分别为指令长弗兰克·博尔曼、指令舱驾驶员詹姆斯·洛威尔以及登月舱驾驶员威廉·安德斯。
< 1273975553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members &#23041;&#24265;&#23433;&#24503;&#26031;.
< 1273975555 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.  I'm wondering what will happen if I translate from the wrong language
< 1273975583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like exljbris?
< 1273975590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en 阿波罗8号是阿波罗计划中的第二次载人飞行任务，三位执行此任务的宇航员分别为指令长弗兰克·博尔曼、指令舱驾驶员詹姆斯·洛威尔以及登月舱驾驶员威廉·安德斯。
< 1273975593 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members 威廉安德斯.
< 1273975594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want Calluna, http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/calluna.html
< 1273975606 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en 威廉安德斯
< 1273975608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :威廉安德斯
< 1273975642 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i like u
< 1273975649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wat
< 1273975665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to get an excuse to be mock-raged at you :|
< 1273975765 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how about this
< 1273975771 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C as my primary dev lang
< 1273975792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: please suck on multiple cacti
< 1273975801 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not kidding
< 1273975806 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seriously is my lang pref
< 1273975834 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes Python
< 1273975844 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH, I hate this thing
< 1273975959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Still, at least you have one; I have no language preference, as I'm continually saddled with the troubling knowledge that all existing languages are inadequate, plus the desire to make new, better ones, which never works out quite as I plan. I have several language antipreferences, though.
< 1273975976 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well they are all inadequate
< 1273975978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is definitely C. It can't even handle basic data structures without a page of memory handling and bookkeeping.
< 1273975985 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at the time I need to hit the books, I use C
< 1273975988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's simply the antithesis of what I want.
< 1273976008 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "hit the books" I mean "write something"
< 1273976045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I gathered.
< 1273976065 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Python inadequate? How is Haskell inadequate?
< 1273976114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is inadequate because it suffers from the endless tangle of impurity, and GvR does not truly understand languages: he believes, for instance, that iteration obsoletes general tail-call elimination. He is an imperative programmer out of his league, designing something he has no idea how to design.
< 1273976118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is probably the closest in common use to what alise would like. What with not sucking giant donkey balls and all.
< 1273976126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result is a mediocre mess with a glaze of cleanness.
< 1273976152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is inadequate because its type system cannot express many things it should be able to, because its syntax is lacking in some ways, and a general bag of odds-and-ends of flaws.
< 1273976156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good, but it doesn't sit right.
< 1273976229 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is PHP inadequate? *ducks*
< 1273976258 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you'll find that if you ended up designing a language and making something marketable, you'd have a hard time
< 1273976261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is wrong in most of the ways that can be managed.
< 1273976279 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is worse, PHP or Perl?
< 1273976290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yes, but GvR is not so much detached from Rasmus, the creator of PHP, who hates languages and doesn't enjoy programming.
< 1273976295 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an anti-Perl bias
< 1273976306 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really sure why
< 1273976307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One level higher, certainly, but he certainly does not have the range of understanding of languages to make the right decisions.
< 1273976312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I believe Python is simply not a good language.
< 1273976335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily make a marketable language with all the API trimmings, I just don't want to. What's the point? It'd probably suck.
< 1273976337 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason it's #1 though
< 1273976342 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would someone who doesn't enjoy programming make a programming language?
< 1273976360 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make things "easy" for non-programmers or something?
< 1273976366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is most definitely worse than Perl.
< 1273976407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl suffers from having too much flexibility and a somewhat write-only syntax.
< 1273976430 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds that, at my level, Haskell is a bit read-only
< 1273976439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP suffers from being "designed" by pretty much throwing shit together.
< 1273976469 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately in PHP and Python, you can Get Things Done
< 1273976489 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not write some fancy "beautiful code" that is hard to use
< 1273976503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: This is the only reason those languages have not been written off as complete and utter failures.
< 1273976519 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you saying that Python should be a failure???
< 1273976521 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, because they've done the opposite of fail for people
< 1273976551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I'm saying I liked it better when it was called Tcl.
< 1273976555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273976580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_2> Why would someone who doesn't enjoy programming make a programming language?
< 1273976582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get things done.
< 1273976635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "getting things done" is usually employed as a deus ex machina against good design; this crappy design works because people have used it for so long that they have figured out how to cobble together something that works; your superior design is more immature and so hasn't formed the framework it needs yet; therefore, the old way is better than the new way.
< 1273976653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone who wants change and dislikes the status quo is a hopeless ideologue.
< 1273976710 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad wants me to find a company that makes a universal laptop charger, something with Lithium-Ion or something. The company's name starts with Digi
< 1273976715 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digitech or Digipower
< 1273976720 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants me to find the company
< 1273976734 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he was more certain about the company's name
< 1273976744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=VY8&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-GB%3Aunofficial&q=digi*+laptop+battery+charger+lithium+ion&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
< 1273976746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not exist.
< 1273976763 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could do * in Google searches!
< 1273976765 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm
< 1273976803 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I can't exclude digital for obvious reasons, but I don't want digi* to only match because of digitalk
< 1273976806 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*digital
< 1273976992 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams wildly at the slowness of his Internet connection
< 1273976992 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40sec lag
< 1273977029 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273977132 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273977175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are too many companies named Digitech!
< 1273977177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273977353 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273977427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just look for chargers for his laptop's model
< 1273977478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that's twice that I typed charter instead of charger
< 1273978091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F My Internet connection
< 1273978095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher-order incantations.
< 1273978097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going off of IRC to play more Gish
< 1273978164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273978199 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273978238 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gish > crappy Intetnet use
< 1273979036 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273979060 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273979674 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273980169 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273980364 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273980616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: incidentally how easy is it to create a new "style" in LaTeX?
< 1273980653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically, you should have to design everything from scratch rather than mangling an existing style; but on the other hand, that sounds like an incredibly laborious task
< 1273980840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is laborious
< 1273980853 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on mine and I've been working at it for months
< 1273980896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: And, presumably, I'd want to define one for the H2G2 books...
< 1273980905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have you gotten me into.
< 1273980926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate packet-per-second Internet.
< 1273980975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My printing of the books has some odd quirks; "CHAPTER N" is, if I recall correctly, set vertically to the left of the opening of the text.
< 1273981069 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you're going too far
< 1273981074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self; remember not to do any typesetting.
< 1273981078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ah, but going too far is wonderful!
< 1273981083 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the god damn Memoir class for H2G2
< 1273981101 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quad
< 1273981118 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read all about the memoir class in the documentation, all the typographic theory
< 1273981120 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lambent
< 1273981126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I wouldn't want to produce anything of anything less than significantly greater quality than I've seen.
< 1273981151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means I'm up against my hardback edition; that means I'm going to have to tweak /something/ along the line
< 1273981156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /mode #esoteric -b lambent
< 1273981200 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay well start with memoir
< 1273981203 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the book set
< 1273981204 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do stuff
< 1273981222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I'll probably do that. But tweaking an existing style is error-prone, as you said.
< 1273981237 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes so do not tweak it
< 1273981240 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's genius already
< 1273981242 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273981242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I won't really feel pleased with the work unless I make it as good a I can, so I'll have to see...
< 1273981253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Do you want to live in a world where every book looks the same? :)
< 1273981256 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273981262 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just start with memoir
< 1273981270 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are actually a lot of modifiable parameters
< 1273981275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, probably.
< 1273981385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I don't remember the videos; have you put any inscriptions on the cloth of the hardbacks? I'm not sure what the correct term is.
< 1273981410 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I haven't. I don't have the right tools, so I leave the cloth blank
< 1273981419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1273981426 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get a sharpie if you want
< 1273981429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273981437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vastly prefer them to dust jackets. I wonder how it's done
< 1273981449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe they embed little gnomes into the cloth...
< 1273981451 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few ways
< 1273981458 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are expensive as dick
< 1273981468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How expensive, exactly, is penis
< 1273981474 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lto
< 1273981476 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot
< 1273981503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :order of magnitude?
< 1273981520 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 bln
< 1273981601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can't believe that.
< 1273981674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I'm imagining a shelf filled with hardback books with nothing written on the spine
< 1273981682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A WORLD... WHERE BOOK-PRINTERS RUN OUT OF MONEY...
< 1273981705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill sell you my penis for $5
< 1273981778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i can afford $5.
< 1273982053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop caps are weird
< 1273982211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273982464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like seriously, I mean, what's the point.
< 1273983431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: "Google Abandons Direct Sales of Nexus One"
< 1273983441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you.
< 1273983512 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? It's going to be available from retailers apparently
< 1273983575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But locked to a carrier, I'll bet; and at a higher price.
< 1273983616 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess AT&T won't offer it
< 1273983668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing
< 1273983670 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe I should have been patient and waited for the EVO
< 1273983708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1273983713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too big! And Sprint-only.
< 1273983714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1273983716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah?
< 1273983785 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad said he'd be willing to switch to Sprint
< 1273983829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do so! Sprint are the best network around.
< 1273983848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my advice. The EVO will be nice, if you have hands big enough. Although apparently Sense isn't all that hot. Eh. You'll figure something out.
< 1273983850 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273983851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going now.
< 1273983867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'll probably dream of typography and H2G2 now. Should be interesting. Bye!
< 1273983869 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273983870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273984189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273984755 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273985241 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273985244 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273985730 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273986236 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, pikhq and anybody else who might care: http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-wipp1.ogg
< 1273986276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, op13? What of op12?
< 1273986281 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed.
< 1273986285 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scavenging the good parts.
< 1273986300 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the beginning, lest ye be confused :P
< 1273986303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, op13 is your 12th opus.
< 1273986309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273986325 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like to skip the number 13, I'm skipping the number 12 instead.
< 1273986333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1273986358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Y'know what's totally awesome for learning a foreign language?
< 1273986361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watching shows in it.
< 1273986367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit jarring a bit before 1:30
< 1273986392 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, that is intentional :P
< 1273988206 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1273988620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273989579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273989598 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273989603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273989898 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273990476 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273990872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273990881 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273991187 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273992193 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273992883 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273992985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273994506 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273996799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273996800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273997873 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273999097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm *wgets*
< 1273999173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so far very nice...
< 1273999175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273999343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, very nice :D
< 1273999770 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who is german in here
< 1273999801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no idea
< 1273999804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me at least
< 1274000906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274001666 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274002985 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274003195 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004345 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004530 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274004567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zooming in on the Sierpinski Gasket is oddly difficult.
< 1274004604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you keep hitting the empty spots? :)
< 1274004613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274004623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mandelbrot set is much nicer,
< 1274004635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it has nonempty spots.
< 1274004682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's about dimension - i vaguely recall the mandelbrot border has hausdorff dimension 2, or something
< 1274004698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(despite being a curve)
< 1274004701 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the sierpinski gasket has less
< 1274004730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that might make the mandelbrot border easier to hit
< 1274004760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because the iterative process that makes the Sierpinski Gasket causes the filled-in areas to peter away to nothing.
< 1274004809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean it's not drawing it perfectly?  or something else
< 1274004854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's because when you cut out the middle triangles, the filled-in area is 3/4 of what it was before.
< 1274004859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be two hard to zoom in perfectly - it looks locally everywhere like a sierpinski gasket, or two joined in a corner
< 1274004881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So carrying on ad infinitum causes the filled-in bits to approach 0.
< 1274004883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes.  but that's precisely what makes it have dimension < 2
< 1274004897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1274004913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also ties in to Pascal's Triangle, somewhere.
< 1274004923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1274004939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there's lot of combinatorics in it
< 1274004960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The even and odd numbers in Pascal's Triangle are in a pattern similar to the Sierpinski Gasket.
< 1274005074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274005096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that makes sense, if odds are at corners
< 1274005105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So logically, Pascal's Triangle contains infinitely more evens than odds.
< 1274005108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something.
< 1274005139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to get an odd number in the pascal's triangle, one of the parents must be odd
< 1274005172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other even.
< 1274005196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have an all-even range, most of it is preserved on the next step
< 1274005200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you would get large blocks of evens being encroached by odds as you move downwards.
< 1274005211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while an all-odd range turns nearly all-even
< 1274005221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274005265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC if you use a 1D automaton on a triangular grid where each cell is the XOR of the two above it, you get the gasket.
< 1274005282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And adding even and odd is equivalent to XOR.
< 1274005304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.  come to think of it, i am sure i've tested that out some time.
< 1274005423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for one thing, i once went through all 2-cell 2-value 1d automata (well there are just 16 and some are isomorphic) to see how easy the long term behavior was to predict
< 1274005429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-(
< 1274005467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and XOR and its equivalent dual (EQV ?) were the hardest since it needed summing binomials
< 1274005509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by predict, i mean calculating without simulating all intermediate steps)
< 1274005563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*binomials mod 2
< 1274005615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(isomorphic = equivalent, using mathspeak here)
< 1274005665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Sierpinskiesque behaviour in Life, under certain circumstances.
< 1274005730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Hausdorff dimension of the boundary of the Mandelbrot set equals 2 as determined by a result of Mitsuhiro Shishikura."
< 1274005801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i recall some discussion previously on the channel that made a sierpinski gasket using a long line
< 1274005810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may have been in Life
< 1274005824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in Life superstrings (very long orthogonal lines of cells) create a messy gasket.
< 1274006174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> `translatefromto jp [...] <-- i think that's ja not jp?
< 1274006757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Quadrescence> AnMaster: Who is german in here <-- jix is
< 1274006772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i believe
< 1274006812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not precisely active though
< 1274006941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [jix] idle 95:00:38, signon: Wed May 12 12:47:44 <-- nice idle time
< 1274007086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> So logically, Pascal's Triangle contains infinitely more evens than odds. <-- hm, but aren't there an infinite number of both?
< 1274007092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different sizes of infinite?
< 1274007113 0 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274007132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I would like to see a proof of that
< 1274007136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Phantom_Hoover ^
< 1274007142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same cardinality
< 1274007160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then there can't be infinitely more evens than odds can it?
< 1274007168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also density to consider
< 1274007176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1274007194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but you can get a bijection of the even and the odds in Pascal's triangle, no?
< 1274007202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although being similar to sierpinski's triangle, it probably fluctuates from 0 to 1 and back
< 1274007217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course, they're both infinite and countable
< 1274007242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't you get a bijection between uncountable of same cardinality?
< 1274007254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it goes from all odd to all but 2 even in one step, perhaps 2^n-1 to 2^n rows?
< 1274007271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can, that's the definition of same cardinality
< 1274007284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274007289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's only one countably infinite cardinality
< 1274007296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1274007466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt] in take 16 pt
< 1274007480 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1],[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1],[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1],[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1],[1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1],[1,11,55,165,330,462,462,330,165,55,11,1],[1,12,66,220,495,792,924,792,495,220,66,12,1],[1,13,78,286,715,1287,1716,1716,1287,715,286,78,13,1],[1,14,91,364,1001,2002,3003,3432,3003,2002,1001,364,91,14,1],[1,15,105,455,1365,3003,5005,6435,6435,5005,3003,1365,455,105,
< 1274007513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1274007522 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW
< 1274007531 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T PROGRAM IN PASCAL
< 1274007536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1274007536 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i just made a funny
< 1274007545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274007548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, was that supposed to be a joke?
< 1274007552 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274007558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed
< 1274007564 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was pretty funny
< 1274007597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you look at those rows, numbered from 0, then the 2^n-1 rows are all odd and the 2^n are all even except the 1's at the end
< 1274007610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1274007619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are there rows with mixed odd/evens in the middle?
< 1274007625 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you get my joke
< 1274007634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, no
< 1274007641 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pascal's triangle
< 1274007644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um all the other rows have both even and odd i believe
< 1274007645 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he programmed to make it
< 1274007646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1274007649 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ,ololololol
< 1274007650 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny
< 1274007653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1274007653 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        \o_
< 1274007654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               |
< 1274007654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              /<
< 1274007657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far fetched
< 1274007664 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        \o_     \o/      _o_
< 1274007664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               |       |        |
< 1274007664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              /<       >\       |\
< 1274007664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the p'th row for a prime p has all but the ends divisible by p, i recall
< 1274007716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it certainly _looks_ like row 9 has all divisible by 3, maybe it's a p^n thing
< 1274007747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or maybe it is just coincidence?
< 1274007761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not coincidence for p^1 or 2^n
< 1274007768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1274007773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean for row 9 thing
< 1274007782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's check a few more
< 1274007789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a proof ;P
< 1274007843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt] in take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) pt
< 1274007871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) pt
< 1274007895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) pt
< 1274007904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1274007910 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1274007918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) pt
< 1274007921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274007924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1274007927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1274007939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274007942 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274007958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think, oerjan, think
< 1274007961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' lcm 0) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274007970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
< 1274007974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1274007982 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274007993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell lcm 0 3
< 1274007996 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1274007996 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, am I doing it wrong?
< 1274008009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the _heck_ are they defining that as 0
< 1274008019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, defining what as 0?
< 1274008028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's far more useful to have lcm 0 n as n
< 1274008030 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274008037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *shrug*
< 1274008047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is programming not math. Even if it is haskell...
< 1274008055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: EgoBot does not handle infinite output well
< 1274008058 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274008065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' lcm) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008076 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print . take 100 $ iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274008089 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1274008090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit
< 1274008098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think stderr goes to /dev/null for egobot
< 1274008100 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,12,10,60,105,280,252,2520,2310,27720,25740,24024,45045,720720,680680,12252240,11639628,11085360,10581480,232792560,223092870,1070845776,1029659400,2974571600,2868336900,80313433200,77636318760,2329089562800,4512611027925,4375865239200,4247163320400,4125815796960,4011209802600,144403552893600,140603459396400,136998242488800,133573286426580,5342931457063200,5215718803323600,219060189739591200,214081549063691400,209324181306720480,20477365562613960
< 1274008102 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274008105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally :D
< 1274008111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was the second line?
< 1274008122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin's
< 1274008126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1274008135 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine
< 1274008146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008149 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274008152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was your line
< 1274008153 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is Num a => [[a]] :P
< 1274008158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zipWith [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was not
< 1274008172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see I pasted your line above
< 1274008184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't claim that the 1,1,1,1... line arrived first at your end
< 1274008189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not possible over irc
< 1274008191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it was
< 1274008213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was it supposed to happen though?
< 1274008219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually i was confused by the fact i _made_ the 1,1,1,1... line first and thought it had timed out
< 1274008235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274008242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you lost me XD
< 1274008252 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question remains of who generated the 1,2,3,12 then
< 1274008255 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it wasn't my line either
< 1274008260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that was mine
< 1274008264 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,1),(1,1),(2,1),(3,1),(4,1),(5,1),(6,1),(7,1),(8,1),(9,1),(10,1),(11,1),(12,1),(13,1),(14,1),(15,1),(16,1),(17,1),(18,1),(19,1),(20,1),(21,1),(22,1),(23,1),(24,1),(25,1),(26,1),(27,1),(28,1),(29,1),(30,1),(31,1),(32,1),(33,1),(34,1),(35,1),(36,1),(37,1),(38,1),(39,1),(40,1),(41,1),(42,1),(43,1),(44,1),(45,1),(46,1),(47,1),(48,1),(49,1),(50,1),(51,1),(52,1),(53,1),(54,1),(55,1),(56,1),(57,1),(58,1),(59,1),(60,1),(61,1),(62,1),(63,1),(64,1),(65,1),(66
< 1274008271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1274008272 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok :) must've missed that one
< 1274008281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' lcm) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008285 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,12,10,60,105,280,252,2520,2310,27720,25740,24024,45045,720720,680680,12252240,11639628,11085360,10581480,232792560,223092870,1070845776,1029659400,2974571600,2868336900,80313433200,77636318760,2329089562800,4512611027925,4375865239200,4247163320400,4125815796960,4011209802600,144403552893600,140603459396400,136998242488800,133573286426580,5342931457063200,5215718803323600,219060189739591200,214081549063691400,209324181306720480,20477365562613960
< 1274008288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep it was
< 1274008304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok something is wrong
< 1274008309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so did you find out the 9th row thing yet?
< 1274008314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _trying_
< 1274008326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, couldn't you just check 3 or 4 cases by hand?
< 1274008332 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr lcm 1 [1..10]
< 1274008338 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops :)
< 1274008344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next case that's at all interesting is 25
< 1274008348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, wrong prefix
< 1274008350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, i wouldn't like that
< 1274008354 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I realized that
< 1274008361 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was too lazy to fix it, it's past 6am :)
< 1274008364 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't very useful anyway
< 1274008371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, yes it is. It is 12:12
< 1274008373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(here)
< 1274008376 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274008388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, heck it is past it a lot of times this year alone
< 1274008392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1274008393 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1274008394 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274008398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi there
< 1274008399 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: recent british literature, besides including the three or four greatest fantaisistes of the present is that it's too damned stupid to question the people around the station; but his attitude toward the matter was by this time have found the other neighboring gate to the abyss, and these dark ruins were in truth primordial sarkomand.
< 1274008412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, oh?
< 1274008413 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as we proceeded. out the window i had left seemed involved in a passage from any given dimensional plane to the next opening in the roof glittered the pale pole star, fluttering as if alive in the stone staircase had been encountered, and the
< 1274008445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm copumpkin are you (relatively) new here or?
< 1274008457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idler? nick changer?
< 1274008459 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sorry if I jumped in
< 1274008464 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newcomer
< 1274008465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 10 . zip [0..] $ pt
< 1274008468 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,[1]),(1,[1,1]),(2,[1,2,1]),(3,[1,3,3,1]),(4,[1,4,6,4,1]),(5,[1,5,10,10,5,1]),(6,[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]),(7,[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1]),(8,[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1]),(9,[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1])]
< 1274008477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, nah no issue, just wasn't able to find your nick in my mental lookup table
< 1274008478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 10 . zip [0..] $ (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274008481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,[1,1]),(1,[1,2,1]),(2,[1,3,3,1]),(3,[1,4,6,4,1]),(4,[1,5,10,10,5,1]),(5,[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]),(6,[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1]),(7,[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1]),(8,[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1]),(9,[1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1])]
< 1274008483 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274008491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...f...
< 1274008501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1274008516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008522 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,input.26654.hs: Prelude.init: empty list
< 1274008532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that looked strange
< 1274008538 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there usually this much haskell in here?
< 1274008539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, varies widely. But usually oerjan can figure out a working command faster than that
< 1274008567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, btw fungot is written in befunge98 in case you didn't know
< 1274008568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " then you're not sure. you saw the fnord ancient and fnord rock strata fully verified all of lakes bulletins, and proved that these pinnacles had been towering up in exactly the same, that door's coming open," i answered, " i can't tell you yet which it was called. the being is spoken of as holding all knowledge, and its
< 1274008569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1274008569 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1274008571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't he use GHCi?
< 1274008577 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hah, that's great
< 1274008611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know
< 1274008623 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :querying lambdabot is great too
< 1274008624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, oh and oerjan is our resident mathematician
< 1274008627 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1274008641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What type?
< 1274008653 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come from #haskell, so I'm used to being surrounded by them
< 1274008657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm trying to demonstrate something, just messing up the code
< 1274008677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of mathematician? Ask him, I don't remember... I saw some paper he had written once iirc. Didn't understand one sentence of it :P
< 1274008689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop . drop . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gave up after the abstract)
< 1274008704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the _heck_ is that a type error
< 1274008716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it? where does egobot say so?
< 1274008725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in DCC
< 1274008774 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: drop takes arguement
< 1274008774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274008788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh
< 1274008801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop 2 . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008805 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(2,2),(3,3),(4,2),(5,5),(6,1),(7,7),(8,2),(9,3),(10,1),(11,11),(12,1),(13,13),(14,1),(15,1),(16,2),(17,17),(18,1),(19,19),(20,1),(21,1),(22,1),(23,23),(24,1),(25,5),(26,1),(27,3),(28,1),(29,29),(30,1),(31,31),(32,2),(33,1),(34,1),(35,1),(36,1),(37,37),(38,1),(39,1),(40,1),(41,41),(42,1),(43,43),(44,1),(45,1),(46,1),(47,47),(48,1),(49,7),(50,1),(51,1),(52,1),(53,53),(54,1),(55,1),(56,1),(57,1),(58,1),(59,59),(60,1),(61,61),(62,1),(63,1),(64,2),(65,1),(
< 1274008827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's true for 25 and 49
< 1274008835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but not for most other ones?
< 1274008856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the only untested squares of primes in that list
< 1274008862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying?
< 1274008871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why not just take the first 100 relevant numbers or such?
< 1274008913 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274008921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and 27 too!
< 1274008922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that most c/4 diagonal Life spaceships seem to be glider tagalongs
< 1274008944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i'm having trouble enough making a list of all the gcd's
< 1274008968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm?
< 1274008978 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to compute? I think I missed the beginning of this
< 1274008986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm testing the theory that all elements of the p^n'th row of pascal's triangle other than the 1's are divisible by p for a prime p
< 1274009003 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274009012 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274009018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't know how to filter on prime powers easily
< 1274009020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not just squares but ^3 and ^4 and so on too?
< 1274009027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep i would thin
< 1274009029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1274009036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, check if each number is a power of a prime?
< 1274009040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's just for primes, 36 breaks as you can see
< 1274009042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not be a one-liner any more...
< 1274009049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's horrible to do, i think
< 1274009053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why?
< 1274009059 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a really short way to get primes :P
< 1274009069 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prime powers in order probably requires more work though
< 1274009072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it requires factorization?
< 1274009094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier to generate all than test for them directly
< 1274009097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well sure it isn't fast, but for numbers of reasonable size it can't be too hard
< 1274009112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not a one-liner
< 1274009154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, after all something like the command line tool factor is fast for (random example) 347772662826551
< 1274009160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a 2 GHz Sempron
< 1274009172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :347772662826551 is a prime apparently
< 1274009210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :987326589764578281478231293 is fast but 9873265897645782814782312932 takes several seconds
< 1274009213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange
< 1274009233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm trying to demonstrate, not check for myself.  also a factor program would obviously use advanced algorithms
< 1274009249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it has two large prime factors instead of one much larger and many small?
< 1274009260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally
< 1274009261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 987326589764578281478231293
< 1274009261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :987326589764578281478231293: 3 3 7 47 32265841 10334261253277693
< 1274009262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 9873265897645782814782312932
< 1274009262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9873265897645782814782312932: 2 2 8005230950461 308337946735853
< 1274009279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing small divisors is much easier
< 1274009281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is still impressive that this just takes a few seconds on an old Sempron...
< 1274009317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yet finding out that 10334261253277693 is prime didn't take a lot of time
< 1274009326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't haskell have some built in factoring thingy?
< 1274009339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians made it after all...
< 1274009340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prime testing has easy algorithms
< 1274009344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274009358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_good_ factoring is _hard_
< 1274009360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but surely there is import Something.Prime?
< 1274009363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1274009373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh something on hackage, probably
< 1274009379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a _core_ feature
< 1274009385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah not part of the haskell platform?
< 1274009404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of
< 1274009426 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274009433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to google or wikipedia, i think
< 1274009498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway the "semi-naive" way of doing this would be generating all primes up to, say, 500 using sieve of E., then trying a number of powers for them, say 2..20
< 1274009507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this shouldn't be too bad complexity
< 1274009514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even coding
< 1274009521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no?
< 1274009574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm passing on to checking references at this point
< 1274009580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274009657 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274009684 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274009709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1274009709 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        |
< 1274009709 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       /<
< 1274009742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It can be deduced from this that (n; k) is divisible by n/gcd(n,k)
< 1274009752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1274009793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if n is a prime power then gcd(n,k) is less when k is not 0 or n
< 1274009815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so n/gcd(n,k) must contain at least one factor of the prime
< 1274009843 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274009856 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) is the binominal?
< 1274009864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274009881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i couldn't paste the wp gif...)
< 1274009893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, png probably
< 1274009927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A somewhat surprising result by David Singmaster (1974) is that any integer divides almost all binomial coefficients."
< 1274009939 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) = n!/(k!*(n-k)!). n! | n, and k! | gcd(n,k), so (n; k) | n/gcd(n,k)
< 1274009940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's relevant to the odd/even case too
< 1274009998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: are you writing those | backwards?
< 1274010015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the first one at least)
< 1274010030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last one
< 1274010053 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a | b = a is dividable by b ... dunno if that is the normal order
< 1274010063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's the opposite
< 1274010121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still have the middle one reversed from the rest
< 1274010136 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) = n!/(k!*(n-k)!). n | n!, and gcd(n,k) | k, so n/gcd(n,k) | (n; k)
< 1274010166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's a correct proof fwiw
< 1274010206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "almost all"?
< 1274010271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrt: <oerjan> "A somewhat surprising result by David Singmaster (1974) is that any integer divides almost all binomial coefficients.")
< 1274010308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_coefficient#Divisibility_properties
< 1274010416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: you have a | b and c | d => ac | bd but what you're doing doesn't fit into that
< 1274010444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a/d | b/c
< 1274010630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and anyway there's no way you can get this while ignoring the (n-k)! part)
< 1274010737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1274010744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over my head that link
< 1274010800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, basically you take the first n rows, and count the fraction of that part of the triangle that is divisible by d.  as n -> infinity, that fraction goes to 1.
< 1274010873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and d is selected to be?
< 1274010884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean if d > n then the fraction will be 0
< 1274010886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any integer
< 1274010889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274010894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not d > n
< 1274010898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d >> n probably
< 1274010899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take the limit of n while keeping d fixed
< 1274010904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where >> = much larger)
< 1274010909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so d << n most certainly in the limit
< 1274010930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well any nonzero integer)
< 1274010935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right, if d = 1 then the fraction is 1
< 1274010937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274010947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----###
< 1274010960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true for _all_ nonzero d.
< 1274010962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey, degenerate cases are fun
< 1274010980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true.  sometimes.
< 1274011080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also I love how a circle is defined in terms of a cone and a cone is defined in terms of a circle
< 1274011138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have none of your circular definitions!
< 1274011149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, conical sectional*
< 1274011265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm wikipedia says "An integer n ≥ 2 is prime if and only if all the intermediate binomial coefficients $\binom n 1, \binom n 2, \ldots, \binom n{n-1}$ are divisible by n."
< 1274011268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is interesting
< 1274011276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274011279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice that the tex copies from the image
< 1274011280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1274011291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though I had to replace two newlines with a $ on either side)
< 1274011441 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anti-proof: 2/1 !| 2/(1*2)
< 1274011541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1274011586 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of my claim of a proof
< 1274011617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else remember alise's idea of Life physics?
< 1274011731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: oh i thought you had found a counterexample
< 1274011748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (2;1) = 2 so that's fine
< 1274011753 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274011778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Life, it'd really have to be anti-physics, though.
< 1274011794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're building up, not breaking down.
< 1274011915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life breaks down quite frequently
< 1274011957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far too many puns can be made here.
< 1274011998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274012023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are some things which should be consolidated into an abstract theory.
< 1274012041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the various speeds of spaceships.
< 1274012091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274012272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw I saw yesterday something mentioned about a wireworld variant that could "grow" new wires
< 1274012283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc self replication was possible
< 1274012352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did it work?
< 1274012364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, didn't check the details
< 1274012377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was somewhere on googlecode, some golly-rule-repo thingy
< 1274012395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/ruletablerepository/ from browser history
< 1274012411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/ruletablerepository/wiki/TheRules#WireWorld_and_derivatives
< 1274012470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads Golly
< 1274012489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it is included by default
< 1274012493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so
< 1274012530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274012624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Golly 2.1 gives access to online repositoried.
< 1274012629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274012636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/repositoried/repositories/
< 1274012644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the rule table one.
< 1274012737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, quadratic growth.
< 1274012810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm?
< 1274012849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where?
< 1274013216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the example patterns
< 1274013313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the WireWorld extension.
< 1274013336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274013414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, these are cool.
< 1274013424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Minsky Machine implementation, too.
< 1274013477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274013510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coolness continues to grow.
< 1274013548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gas simulations and such.
< 1274015858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274016216 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274016501 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274017725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274018353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does nobody print 1 as the I-type symbol any more?
< 1274018358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it universally in old mathematical texts.
< 1274018378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean 1 as a straight, vertical line?
< 1274018388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To differentiate, of course.
< 1274018407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I and l are already confusing, not to mention |
< 1274018419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another vertical line is overkill.
< 1274018754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, they're printed like Is.
< 1274018762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serifed Is.
< 1274018764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Quadrature_of_Circle_Cajori_1919.png
< 1274018764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing!
< 1274018766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the 1s here.
< 1274018771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't confusing!
< 1274018772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274018796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how they're printed, AFAIK.
< 1274018908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern certainly doesn't have that 1.
< 1274018914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does AMS Euler or any of the common mathematical fonts.
< 1274018928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed any text fonts I know.
< 1274018951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do they print it?
< 1274019184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the regular 1 you see all the time.
< 1274019198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slanty top bit, serifed bottom bit.
< 1274019201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of serifed top and bottom bit.
< 1274019217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274019302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Pm1234_Euler1755_I-V.png
< 1274019314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is some text which shows it better; older, too; vintage 1755 Euler.
< 1274019334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274019381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that Golly has a script that supports 3D Life.
< 1274019777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Pm1234_Euler1755_I-V.png
< 1274019777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Here is some text which shows it better; older, too; vintage 1755 Euler.
< 1274019779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed ^
< 1274019781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hot.
< 1274019794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it scale up the neighbour stuff based on the dimensions or just keep it the same (which would be silly)?
< 1274019810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty ugly kludge.
< 1274019829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script does the calculations, then draws the universe on a 2D CA>
< 1274019849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also fantastically slow, and they keys are unintuitive.
< 1274020291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assume that the display is not very easy to see.
< 1274020351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was an easy 3D library I'd make a proper 3D Life.
< 1274020357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, there is not.
< 1274020361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, not that I know of.
< 1274020389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey do you know of any like big huge collections of interesting life patterns i could dump in a folder and have golly recognise?
< 1274020393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading separate .rle files is so meh
< 1274020541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jslife is pretty fun.
< 1274020562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Not fast enough.
< 1274020563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And JS is laggy.
< 1274020566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a given value of "fun".
< 1274020574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js = Jason Summers.
< 1274020588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274020604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it organised?
< 1274020608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274020611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Golly understand the organisation?
< 1274020654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can just dump the decompressed directory into the Patterns directory and Golly can read it.
< 1274020666 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274020678 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know how to output a number in Brainfuck?
< 1274020687 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With either 1 or 2 digits
< 1274020720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something on the Brainfuck algorithms page on the wiki for that.
< 1274020725 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?
< 1274020740 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it
< 1274020748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is divmod: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm
< 1274020762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a one or two digit number in decimal is just two divmods.
< 1274020772 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1274020779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly you will need a lookup table.
< 1274020795 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a long algorithm, though -- this is for a golf problem
< 1274020839 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually...i could do it by checking if a cell is equal to 9, then put it in the next cell if it is
< 1274020847 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since i'm counting something
< 1274020863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1274020887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, do you know what's the longest period oscillator? I know there's >200 but it has no page on LifeWiki.
< 1274020898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wonder what the slowest spaceship is. Probably that replicator + a deletion machine, but that's chaeting :-)
< 1274020900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cheating
< 1274020992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p103079214841
< 1274020999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the Oscillators file
< 1274021031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any "pulsating" spaceship? I mean something that moves like a slug; it contracts, then expands out again, slightly further forward.
< 1274021038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274021054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it tends to be on the order of one or two cells.
< 1274021085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1274021091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was imagining this big slug getting all tiny.
< 1274021102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought you meant a one-to-two cell spaceship for a second there, and got really confused.)
< 1274021225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Caterpillar is pretty interesting.
< 1274021234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lays down a track, along which it moves.
< 1274021250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly's default collection is so tiny, urgh
< 1274021264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So has anyone emulated a non-Lifelike CA in Life?
< 1274021265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, rule 110?
< 1274021283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's a Rule 110 emulator somewhere.
< 1274021287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining one of those dot-matrix-printer type dealies printing each line of CA as it goes, then somehow "scanning" the printed output to do the next generation.
< 1274021302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the metacell, which supports all B/
< 1274021308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S rules.
< 1274021310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metapixel
< 1274021315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B/S rules.
< 1274021325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bullshit rules.
< 1274021328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's 2D, anyway.
< 1274021374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOL is so rich, I'd like to life in a life simulation
< 1274021405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there are three of them included in Golly.
< 1274021430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vanilla cell, the metapixels and the Deep Cell, which simulates two universes at once.
< 1274021448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why simulate two at once? I'm curious.
< 1274021449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1274021462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because it allow unlimited universes.
< 1274021472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1274021487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't have the metapixel in my golly version :( just a 512x512 one and the deep ceel
< 1274021488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cell
< 1274021497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4 from 2008
< 1274021523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory storage still sucks in Life, yeah?
< 1274021541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Spartan UCC has unlimited-size registers, I think.
< 1274021583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a script in Python that converts normal Life patterns into metapixels.
< 1274021596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on other CAs, too.
< 1274021622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I meant as far as speed and stuff goes.
< 1274021633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, don't know.
< 1274021645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice to have a Turing-machine style tape where the head can move at lightspeed.
< 1274021661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK nearly all processing is done at glider speed.
< 1274021666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And thus retrieve things from memory and give them back to the main computer at lightspeed.)
< 1274021669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, IMO that sucks :P
< 1274021672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightspeed is awesome
< 1274021684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but it's also very difficult to control.
< 1274021704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must harness the powah!
< 1274021710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't even a way to turn a practical lightspeed signal around a corner, yet.
< 1274021761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can have a lightspeed tunnel that emits and takes sub-lightspeed gliders, yeah?
< 1274021784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jslife one?
< 1274021791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I'm just asking.
< 1274021798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's possible. Otherwise it isn't really communication.
< 1274021813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have stretches of LHC^Wlightspeed tunnel for as long as you can make them, then into a sub-light-speed cornering device, which then feeds the gliders into another straight lightspeed tunnel.
< 1274021814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said yesterday, no-one has come up with a usable diagonal lightspeed wire.
< 1274021819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So?
< 1274021822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then.
< 1274021824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listen.
< 1274021825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean:
< 1274021827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lightspeed tunnel
< 1274021831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you feed in spaceships
< 1274021837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits are transmitted at lightspeed
< 1274021842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then come out the other end as spaceships
< 1274021856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need is a horizontal and vertical one of these, plus a very simple take-in-spaceship-and-emit-a-new-one-diagonally piece
< 1274021861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, you can take the signal out of lightspeed to turn a corner, but the signal circuitry required would be huge, complex and slow.
< 1274021863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just plug them together; voila, turner-corning.
< 1274021873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So exiting lightspeed is difficult?
< 1274021881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274021883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it really communication then, if everything has to go at light speed?
< 1274021892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circuitry can't always operate that quickly.
< 1274021900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is why lightspeed is chaotic.
< 1274021918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked at the lightspeed telegraph yet?
< 1274021933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here is a sample Herschel-based oscillator with a 12-digit-prime period" ;; whoa
< 1274021939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I saw it but did not understand it or run it.
< 1274021941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty good demonstration of the technilogies.
< 1274021984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it in jslife?
< 1274022000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's included in the Signal-Circuitry folder.
< 1274022020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so it is.
< 1274022023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the latest Golly?
< 1274022027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.1
< 1274022043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The version in the Ubuntu repositories is ancient, BtW.
< 1274022045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I'm on 1.4.
< 1274022052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I can see the lightspeed telegraph and it looks like the LHC.
< 1274022056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand it though.
< 1274022158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Should I upgrade?
< 1274022169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the telegraph appears to have some sort of latency; after sending one blip of information, you must wait until it repairs itself to send another.
< 1274022172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not really lightspeed, is it?
< 1274022178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one bit, sure, but not sustained.
< 1274022304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the machinery looks beautiful on hyperspeed.
< 1274022340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you zoom in you can see the cable jittering.
< 1274022348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so I should upgrade Golly yeah?
< 1274022792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1.diff.gz	09-May-2010 16:06 	 11K	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1.dsc	09-May-2010 16:06 	1.1K	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb	12-May-2010 13:05 	2.0M	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1_i386.deb	10-May-2010 12:05 	1.9M	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1.orig.tar.gz	09-May-2010 16:06 	2.3M	
< 1274022794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use this.
< 1274022894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~$ sudo dpkg -i --force-depends-version golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading database ... 331562 files and directories currently installed.)
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preparing to replace golly 2.1-1 (using golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb) ...
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpacking replacement golly ...
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg: golly: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you request:
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libperl5.10 (>= 5.10.1); however:
< 1274022899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libperl5.10 on system is 5.10.0-19ubuntu1.1.
< 1274022901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libwxbase2.8-0 (>= 2.8.10.1); however:
< 1274022903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libwxbase2.8-0 on system is 2.8.9.1-0ubuntu6.
< 1274022905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libwxgtk2.8-0 (>= 2.8.10.1); however:
< 1274022907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libwxgtk2.8-0 on system is 2.8.9.1-0ubuntu6.
< 1274022909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winces :)
< 1274022911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works, anyway.
< 1274023167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just compiles golly herself
< 1274023189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so a 3D life would use voxels, right?
< 1274023292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/Life/Gliders.htm Gliders in 3D Life
< 1274023372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D Life seems quite chaotic on random patterns.
< 1274023376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A universe of insanity.
< 1274023394 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there are multiple ways to 3Dify Life.
< 1274023401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~saj39122/doefe/ another 3D Life
< 1274023436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: only one obvious way; instead of (x,y) have (x,y,z); use 3D instead of 2D neighbours; and scale up the birth/death numbers accordingly
< 1274023459 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but there are multiple ways to choose those numbers.
< 1274023544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Divide by 8, multiply by 26. Perhaps that's naive.
< 1274023558 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is naive, but it may work.  :P
< 1274023576 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders spelling that naïve simply because he can.
< 1274023589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main issue is nice visualisation and editing.
< 1274023595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Na�ve is a nice spelling.
< 1274023686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crème brûlée a nice spelling?
< 1274023715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; as is r�le.
< 1274023739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just a different spelling of the English word 'role', as in "What is his role in this ordeal?"?
< 1274023752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His r�le in the proceedings was primarily to mess everything up; he was too na�ve to handle his responsibility.
< 1274023754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1274023802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Python doesn't work with Golly on 64-bit machines. Will this be a problem?
< 1274023829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-O5" --golly
< 1274023849 0 :Warrior`!~warrior@117.201.48.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274023866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes a Warrior`
< 1274023873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is pronounced only slightly differently to wareya
< 1274023882 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is that
< 1274023890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another person in here; more to the point, who are you?
< 1274023893 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And significantly differently from Warrigal.
< 1274023901 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err....
< 1274023910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I was away.
< 1274023917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relatively simple question; what brings you here?
< 1274023924 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#brainfuck
< 1274023928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's reasonable.
< 1274023943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IIRC, you need to change the location of the Python .so files sometimes.
< 1274023949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to fire off the procedural "we're not about magick or any other kind of esoterica" but I don't suppose anyone in #brainfuck would be looking for that.
< 1274023954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they took the channel name a bit too literally.
< 1274023961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: one of the symbols is named diferently in the 64-bit one
< 1274023965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googleified it
< 1274023967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differently
< 1274023973 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#brainfuck theres a refrence about #esoteric
< 1274024005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would fit, given that we are ostensibly the umbrella channel for all esoteric languages.
< 1274024033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only ostensibly, mind.
< 1274024043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess our current topic, the Game of Life, basically counts as an esolang.
< 1274024050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like an esouniverse, but there you go.
< 1274024069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked at the lgithspeed telegraph
< 1274024071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274024111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. As I said, I saw it, and it looked like the LHC; but I didn't understand it.
< 1274024117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly didn't seem to do anything with the information being transmitted.
< 1274024143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does transmit a LWSS, but it's extremely inefficient.
< 1274024159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only practical over very long distances.
< 1274024283 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274024308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1274024346 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274024374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found something wonderful wrt. panoramic photos. A (possibly) cheap way to do panoramic head. It depends on if you have the needed stuff already, I happen to have that. Lots of it in fact. Will tell you more when you respond :P
< 1274024471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274024709 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274024993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is awesome.
< 1274024998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not life, Life :P
< 1274025021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so efficient lightspeed transmission is an open problem.
< 1274025036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1274025053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well well well...
< 1274025055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard can it be?
< 1274025064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely, I think.
< 1274025094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not finding stable signals that's the problem, it's getting them into a manipulable form.
< 1274025144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, the problem is that the way the signals are transmitted is chaotic
< 1274025147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274025172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That their endpoints are chaotic, yes,
< 1274025214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gawps at metapixel-p216-gun
< 1274025215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the LST's overhead comes from the fact that 10 signals are necessary per bit, and the tape needs to be repaired afterwards
< 1274025216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... so huge...
< 1274025236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; I bet real lightspeed communication is impossible.
< 1274025240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the latency, the lag between signals.
< 1274025244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can send one bit at lightspeed, sure.
< 1274025250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sustained communication won't be at lightspeed.
< 1274025299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone used a metapixel to run a metapixel?
< 1274025308 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone has.
< 1274025316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried, once.
< 1274025343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was going to take forever, so I stopped.
< 1274025425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What do you think about my conjecture that true sustained lightspeed communication is impossible?
< 1274025435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could do something like quantum entanglement with a very long wire.
< 1274025459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, lightspeed != instant, but if we can recognise a very small group of cells and keep the "connector" which switches them far enough away not to interfere...
< 1274025469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no quantum entanglement...
< 1274025536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not.
< 1274025537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By true sustained lightspeed communication do you mean sending data or processing?
< 1274025553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant sending; there's lag between sending lightspeed communications due to repair.
< 1274025561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I bet that the maximum /sustained/ speed is far less than c, because of the lag.
< 1274025572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sustained?
< 1274025605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LST can send repeatedly along the same wire; it only needs to repair a fixed length.
< 1274025647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but if you monitor the right end: a blip gets fired, the wire is fucked up for a few generations, then it reforms, /then/ the next blip hits it.
< 1274025652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that lag between sending two blips.
< 1274025656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lag is significantly slower than c.
< 1274025665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /sustained/ communication - non-stop, constant communication - cannot happen at c.
< 1274025742 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's non-stop, constant communication?
< 1274025755 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At best, you can transmit information only once per generation.
< 1274025845 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't make any sense to say "that lag is significantly slower than c".  That lag is measured in time per information sent, not time per distance.
< 1274025859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that we have a certain machine that, with the appropriate communication mechanism, wants to set one blip per generation going off.
< 1274025875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do this, since after setting one blip off, it takes several generations for the wire to repair itself sufficiently to accept another blip.
< 1274025877 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can just use a bunch of these lightspeed telegraphs.
< 1274025892 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No new technology is required.
< 1274025896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274025905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of an occasion where it would need an infinite amount of them but I can't. Fair enough.
< 1274025917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION causes an accident in the LHC
< 1274025924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black holes are sucking up all the gliders!!!
< 1274025937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're spreading and demolishing the wire at both ends!!
< 1274025938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh the pain!!
< 1274025977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was always my favourite to destroy.
< 1274025987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, I think this thing is actually eating the tape away at lightspeed
< 1274025995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1274025998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274026001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly a black hole.
< 1274026009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most dense fuses burn at lightspeed.
< 1274026021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's just an information packet going backwards
< 1274026023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extraordinary
< 1274026025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most dense objects, come to think of it.
< 1274026046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it's turning the tape into nice little evenly-spaced oscillators.
< 1274026057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an information packet, it just looks like it.
< 1274026060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With gigantic gobs of dark matter every so often.
< 1274026063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: okay
< 1274026086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dark matter appears to be when the destroyer collides with an information packet.
< 1274026098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty impressive that it survives the collision, or rather gets rebuilt just after it
< 1274026111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The destroyer?
< 1274026129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the natural way for a stretched line of beehives to burn.
< 1274026132 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing eating the wire away at lightspeed that looks exactly like a mirrored packet
< 1274026170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extraordinarily, the left piece of machinery is still trying to shoot out gliders
< 1274026191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just being obliterated though.
< 1274026208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this thing is eating the wire then pooping out oscillators.
< 1274026209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross.
< 1274026256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, the ash of oscillators and still-lifes that is left behind when a pattern burns is very resilient.
< 1274026279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is logic WHAT why did one of the oscillators appear one cell above the others
< 1274026280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|#
< 1274026281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:|
< 1274026283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested it as a shielding material, and it can withstand a glider gun pointed at it.
< 1274026288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Heh
< 1274026292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess it makes sense
< 1274026310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a bloody battle there, tons of cells fought it out; by definition, only those tough enough to survive chaotic conditions will remain at the end.
< 1274026324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise they would have been destroyed. So it's a tautology that the debris of collisions is tough�
< 1274026326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274026344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, you're using naturally-made resources from the Field to reinforce your products.
< 1274026360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This strong material was formed from chaotic collisions millions of generations ago..."
< 1274026379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We mind it from a desolate part of the Inner Field and brought it to our products to make sure they have the best defences possible."
< 1274026426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to synthesise, though, and creating it by burning junk would produce too many gliders to be safe.
< 1274026452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it in a lab beforehand :-)
< 1274026454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it amusing.
< 1274026461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it impossible to synthesise, though?
< 1274026466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean while running the thing it's used in?
< 1274026470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously.
< 1274026479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably use a program to create a very resilient material.
< 1274026487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The left side of the telegaph is now completely destroyed; just debris. It isn't even firing gliders any more.
< 1274026510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right side is as of yet undamaged, but the destroyer will reach it soon.
< 1274026530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this looks really dangerous.
< 1274026534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does?
< 1274026543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The funny thing is, the right side hasn't had any idea of any of this happening :-)
< 1274026546 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of queen bees here; some of them are emitting gliders that are colliding with each other and producing fireballs.
< 1274026554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, every time, the fireballs die out before causing any damage.
< 1274026559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, assuming observers in the Game of Life obey regular laws.
< 1274026566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Best. Movie. Ever.
< 1274026575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen bees shooting space ships that explode into fireballs.
< 1274026595 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more, a random glider recently flew in and managed to not make the reaction destroy itself.
< 1274026612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRAVE WARRIOR
< 1274026612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which pattern?
< 1274026618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pause it, screenshot it, post the rle.
< 1274026631 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and occasionally, it emits a glider toward some debris...
< 1274026642 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has to be artificial.  I'm betting that the original pattern contained this exact thing.
< 1274026667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cambrian explosion is fun to burn, too.
< 1274026681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post RLE!
< 1274026688 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/HEHLhKxK
< 1274026697 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what format that is; let's hope it's RLE.  :P
< 1274026717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's RLE.
< 1274026722 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.2.70.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let Phantom_Hoover investigate.
< 1274026743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The destroyer is almost at the first component of the right end.
< 1274026750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't affect it!
< 1274026751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it comes.
< 1274026754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the big one.
< 1274026755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thev ery end.
< 1274026768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saves
< 1274026770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The very
< 1274026777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM
< 1274026783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transmitter is no longer working.
< 1274026784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an artificial high-period gun.
< 1274026785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collisions.
< 1274026789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here comes the next wave of spaceships.
< 1274026789 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My, this is making a dramatic exit.
< 1274026790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exploded!
< 1274026800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAPOW
< 1274026801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAZAM
< 1274026802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WALLOP
< 1274026803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMASH
< 1274026812 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1274026813 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's emitting a glider every few hundred generations, and that glider is hitting some debris, causing it to draw ever closer...
< 1274026816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machinery is ... surviving, gliders and spaceships are still coming.
< 1274026824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spreading, though
< 1274026861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firing spaceships at fire tends to make the fire travel up the stream.
< 1274026863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the little personnel operating this transmission station are going to die eventually.
< 1274026874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts it on hyperspeed
< 1274026877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, nah.
< 1274026879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just normal speed.
< 1274026891 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashing doesn't work well for chaotic patterns.
< 1274026896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, I made it go far too fast.
< 1274026908 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274026918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, spoiler, here's what happens to the right side: The entire machine is replaced by a bunch of oscillators and still lifes.
< 1274026928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete oblivion. Even the bits at the outskirts.
< 1274026958 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1274026971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know HOW it destroyed the bits at the outskirts.
< 1274026977 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This debris produced a ship right next to the machine's output.
< 1274026986 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that the next glider out will destroy the machine instantly.
< 1274026996 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it just deleted the boat.
< 1274026997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There is a known oscillator that looks like the sun, right?
< 1274026999 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship.
< 1274027001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short period
< 1274027016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3? That's the pulsar, then.
< 1274027019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly common.
< 1274027043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just didn't recognise it.
< 1274027048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, perhaps 4 period.
< 1274027049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure.
< 1274027054 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the machine's dead, turned into a single glider gun!
< 1274027058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, three.
< 1274027062 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see whether its beam moves forward or backward.
< 1274027081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The oscillator that's a backwards S and a block and a little blip bats backwards and forwards, I like that one.
< 1274027102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274027107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: is this queen-bee-turn.rle?
< 1274027108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat
< 1274027109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Period?
< 1274027117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, is it something unknown?
< 1274027121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the period of this oscillator?
< 1274027129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reopens it
< 1274027137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's low period and in ash, then almost certainly no.
< 1274027162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere in the vicinity of ~29-31.
< 1274027170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell for sure; too complex.
< 1274027191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want it?
< 1274027211 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: possibly; I don't know what that is.
< 1274027215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF; it doesn't work out of context.
< 1274027222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1274027232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no alive cells near, but copying it to its own file makes it do something completely different.
< 1274027247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RLE?
< 1274027251 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're doing something wrong.
< 1274027260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure, I'll give you the RLE it's in and the coords.
< 1274027295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's in DRH-oscillators, the information thing has a list of what they're all called.
< 1274027308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the debris.
< 1274027338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://filebin.ca/nmovkc/telegraph-in-peril.rle; there are multiple but the one I'm looking at is around XY= 308 1,392
< 1274027347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:4 scale works
< 1274027501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the Queen Bee shuttle.
< 1274027553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen bees sure are popular today.
< 1274027560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How come copying it out doesn't work?
< 1274027591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you keeping the fish-hook and block with it?
< 1274027602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unstable by itself.
< 1274027621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274027641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it works.
< 1274027643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh.
< 1274027645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I did wrong.
< 1274027667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any methuselahs that, after their lifespan, kill every one of their cells?
< 1274027671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cool.
< 1274027674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a really, really long fuse.
< 1274027706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miscellaneous/die658.rle
< 1274027715 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Golly come with the Caterpillar?
< 1274027737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274027754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get it to download patterns like it said it could?
< 1274027759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, I was thinking of that one.
< 1274027786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help>Online Archives
< 1274027804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caterpillar is in Summers' one.
< 1274027828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://holyspiritvictorious4ever.blogspot.com/2009/03/1111-phenomenon-links-2012-to-baghdad.html
< 1274027841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Help. Well that makes sense
< 1274027847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not
< 1274027855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the lifewiki archive good?
< 1274027887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good for quick lookup of simple spaceships and oscillators.
< 1274027905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any complex circuits, AFAIK.
< 1274027905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I downloaded it; how do I install it?
< 1274027908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does Golly not do that?
< 1274027934 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caterpillar? That huge ship with odd speed?
< 1274027951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you click on patterns in the archive Golly loads them. Ilari: Yes.
< 1274027988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I want it in my breeders directory
< 1274027999 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274028020 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely crazy: Caterpillar gun. :->
< 1274028020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you can just use the save thing.
< 1274028038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every single one? No.
< 1274028042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just do it manually.
< 1274028066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION organises Patterns folder into Golly and jslife
< 1274028077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one knows glider synthethis for some spaceship, can one transform that into gun for that spaceship?
< 1274028090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Why not?
< 1274028096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a restricted subset of a universal constructor, right?
< 1274028100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea where fizzie may be?
< 1274028102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running in a loop using that synthesis.
< 1274028114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's obviously possible, it's just a matter of making it... not a universal constructor-computer
< 1274028141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> any idea where fizzie may be? <alise> Running in a loop using that synthesis. <-- XD (yes I know it wasn't related, but...)
< 1274028145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274028147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274028151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, jslife/applications/unit110cell.lif.
< 1274028154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not quite the nice output I'd like.
< 1274028237 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scrolls through the Caterpillar at one-quarter scale using the down-arrow in Golly.
< 1274028240 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which takes a while.
< 1274028241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea I have for transforming glider synthethis into gun is to trace the pattern backwards into glider field and then use (high-perioid) glider guns plus reflectors to construct that field.
< 1274028259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (10,2)c/10 -- what does /this/ notation mean?
< 1274028268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Mc/N, but what is (X,Y)c/N?
< 1274028276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fuse; s-a bunch of 9s.lif.
< 1274028282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It translates (X,Y) in N generations.
< 1274028288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translates?
< 1274028289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in rotates?
< 1274028290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins running it.
< 1274028303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems this ought to get up to speed pretty quickly.
< 1274028321 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, its not a ship, ships can't have that high speed.
< 1274028322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Translates? <alise> As in rotates? <-- I thought translate == move x/y, not "rotate
< 1274028325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1274028326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a fuse, it's probably the period of the burning bit and how much it burns.
< 1274028326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how straight lines make sierpinski triangles in Life.
< 1274028332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hawt.
< 1274028334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1274028341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost enough to make you believe Wolfram
< 1274028351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan and I were discussing that earlier...
< 1274028353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh.
< 1274028368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they do? in the same line or?
< 1274028374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight lines are also the only things that can propagate into a vacuum at lightspeed.
< 1274028378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it build one in a direction?
< 1274028379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a straight line downwards creates two sierpinski triangles
< 1274028387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We discussed it here a while ago.
< 1274028388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests
< 1274028391 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs the Caterpillar at hyperspeed.
< 1274028397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 1 wide? continuous?
< 1274028398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The junk left behind is a Sierpinski triangle.
< 1274028400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274028404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A slightly off-straight line makes a "mucky" Sierpinski triangle.
< 1274028409 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's highest possible sum of velocities in directions for spaceship? 1/2 (LWSS, MWSS, HWSS and glider all have that velocity sum)?
< 1274028417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is made up of less defined debris, but still looks right.
< 1274028424 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what makes that a sum?
< 1274028434 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, yeah, 1/2 is the fastest possible spaceship.
< 1274028435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, minimum length?
< 1274028438 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: x and y component sum.
< 1274028443 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274028445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know 3 = oscillator
< 1274028454 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you might be able to go faster.
< 1274028458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: four or five or so
< 1274028460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do about 30
< 1274028471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm not 30
< 1274028484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few hundred is nice, too.
< 1274028504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gawker.com/5539717/steve-jobs-offers-world-freedom-from-porn?skyline=true&s=i
< 1274028507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that was...
< 1274028509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the RLE syntax for N-pixel down line?
< 1274028530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a little modification to the Caterpillar.
< 1274028537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which generation? or some average over several?
< 1274028548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is there any "straight line drawing" in golly
< 1274028550 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally, this modification destroys it.
< 1274028565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Life patterns are *very* fragile.
< 1274028577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cell out of place can destroy the whole thing.
< 1274028585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is c/2 the fastest possible spaceship?
< 1274028589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it is.
< 1274028599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful!
< 1274028605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Jobs is a hardass, we know this. However listening to Gawker about anything is idiotic, especially as they knowingly bought a stolen next-gen iPhone to write a review, then were total dicks about it when everyone found out
< 1274028608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it simply is so.
< 1274028610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been proved.
< 1274028610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C spaceship is impossible on a non-toroidal universe.
< 1274028654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sort-of proof.
< 1274028698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this margin large enough to contain it?
< 1274028703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long caterpillar is front to back as its longest?
< 1274028703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is basically just distributed marginalia.
< 1274028709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I just wanted an excuse to use the word marginalia.
< 1274028709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to a friend, mentioned how the SIM card is not in, and he suggests that I should have just bought an iPod Touch
< 1274028722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go soon.
< 1274028731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye in advance Phantom_Hoover
< 1274028734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, he is wrong.
< 1274028736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I cannot outline my proof.
< 1274028737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I must be doing something wrong... I can't spot any sierpinski triangle...
< 1274028745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When will you be back? I have so many irritating Life questions to ask you! :P
< 1274028751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is it totally straight and downwards? How long is it?
< 1274028760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know.
< 1274028767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm do golly allow you to measure that?
< 1274028769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /Will/ you be back?
< 1274028773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274028773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just eyeball it.
< 1274028782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Today? IN FIVE YEARS?
< 1274028792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh... wait
< 1274028793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today!
< 1274028800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, population at generation 0 is 404
< 1274028801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY HOORAY
< 1274028803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it is 404 long
< 1274028811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I draw maybe 50 cells then copy-pasted
< 1274028815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and verified it was straight
< 1274028818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, how far in advance can "Bye in advance" be said?
< 1274028819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no gaps
< 1274028826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I say bye in advance to alise right now?
< 1274028883 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274028886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye in advance, everyone.
< 1274028887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No
< 1274028894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many generations does it take to see sierpinski, I let it run until it became stable mostly
< 1274028894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: give rle
< 1274028895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this not because I plan to leave, but because I'm counting on you leaving.
< 1274028900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like a few
< 1274028901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sec...
< 1274028938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it went stable around 30 000 generations (eye balling from fast speed) not a lot of sierpinski patterns there
< 1274028951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all still lifes heh
< 1274028965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did something wrong
< 1274028976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait not all still lifes, was doing acceleration still
< 1274029009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, saving RLE atm
< 1274029022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is RLE text only? pastebin would be easiest
< 1274029024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is.
< 1274029025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a life-like rule for you all: B38/S23
< 1274029044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://sprunge.us/eSjZ
< 1274029064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko
< 1274029082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm wait there is a sierpinski-like patterns early on but it goes away quickly
< 1274029090 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the maximum length is about 330 800. At 17c/45, it takes about 876 000 generations to travel its own length. Quite huge perioid for gun...
< 1274029094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Sierpinski is there, you just have not noticed it
< 1274029100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a bigger line, then zoom out
< 1274029107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to play Gish on a computer that can actually handle it
< 1274029118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, it is very tedious to draw a straight line in golly
< 1274029128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(version 2.1)
< 1274029152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get RLEs in Golly with select/copy, and I must go now.
< 1274029163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that was tricky to align
< 1274029169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, that would mean constructing glider gun with perioid of about 900 000 for caterpillar gun.
< 1274029173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check that line after 5000 generations
< 1274029261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1274029330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay I can see it early on while it is still growing now
< 1274029370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit harder to see it once it went stable... the pattern is "fuzzier" then
< 1274029449 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274029460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1274029474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think a slightly non-straight line (moves to the right one pixel at some point) gives the best results
< 1274029475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1274029501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it possible to get one where it isn't cut in the middle of a given "level" if you see what I mean.
< 1274029542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274029576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJEpxPWJAh8
< 1274029588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you look at it when it went stable (initial length of line is now 3035) you can see the middle looks like a extremely wide and squashed hour glass, right?
< 1274029592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole in the middle
< 1274029611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Random fill percentage: 50"
< 1274029613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I do a random fill?
< 1274029623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't look at it for too long
< 1274029637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like the two triangles meet in the middle of a "level" of the outermost triangles
< 1274029639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274029925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast can a spacefiller fill a patterned background, I wonder?
< 1274029929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, not already filled.
< 1274030148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to make a B/S rule based on silly idioms and truisms.
< 1274030156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, two's company and three's a crowd; so obviously S2 and not S3.
< 1274030174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a loving, stable family with a mother and father to survive, obviously, so you can't be born with 0 or 1, has to be 2.
< 1274030189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, you need a nice community around you, which can be of size seven or eight, so S78.
< 1274030199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can also be born by massive orgies between the community, so B78.
< 1274030208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. It's chaotic.
< 1274030210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrt spacefiller: golly contains some example
< 1274030223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not with a pattern.
< 1274030226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notes mention theoretical upper bound
< 1274030239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of space?
< 1274030239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the all-cardinal-directions one at least)
< 1274030259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it a speed bound? I think I remember seeing half of space as a bound
< 1274030264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc it can be faster if only growing in left/right _or_ up/down but not both
< 1274030283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: c/4 all directions, c/2 half
< 1274030286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't answer my question
< 1274030289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about patterned backgrounds
< 1274030307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it grows diagonally?
< 1274030325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/4?
< 1274030345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean c/4 all c/2 half?
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C Spacefillers are the fastest-growing known pattern in Conway's
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  Game of Life (probably the fastest possible). They fill space
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  to a density of 1/2, conjectured to be the maximum density,
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  and they do it at a speed of c/2 in each of the 4 directions,
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  which has been proven to be the maximum possible speed.
< 1274030360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the info says for that
< 1274030362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I thought it was c/4.
< 1274030365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then; c/2.
< 1274030369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and what do you mean patterned bg exactly?
< 1274030377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally, the background is a pattern of all dead cells.
< 1274030381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "conjectured"
< 1274030383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can figure out what I mean.
< 1274030407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err? no it isn't. That space filler draws dead/alive/dead 1-width strips
< 1274030407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's very likely to be true, I think.
< 1274030411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you play Night and Day, I think it is, you can say that they're all live
< 1274030415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust it as you trust the Riemann hypothesis or the Collatz conjecture.
< 1274030421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Day and Night.
< 1274030429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop talking until you understand the very plain meaning of what I said.
< 1274030431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is however a still life it draws. All dead cells doesn't really fill space, it is empty
< 1274030442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh you mean prior existing bg?
< 1274030454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program are you using?
< 1274030458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1274030459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, golly here
< 1274030478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had Mirek's Celebration once
< 1274030490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suspect it depends on the pattern. Plus you would have to fit the filler to the specific pattern probably so they didn't destroy each other
< 1274030516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mirek's Cellebration
< 1274030539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Random fill is control-5
< 1274030540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course.
< 1274030544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You are back?
< 1274030564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cellebration is good, particularly w/r/t Margolus rules
< 1274030565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control-5 doesn't work here
< 1274030592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know what a Margolus rule is
< 1274030595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got a seletion
< 1274030601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, was surprised to see Golly has this: http://golly.sourceforge.net/win-loops.png
< 1274030602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/seletion/selection/
< 1274030614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why?
< 1274030624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, no
< 1274030628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't I fill infinite space???
< 1274030632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only added multi-state CAs a couple of versions ago
< 1274030634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something I saw in Cellebration, and for some reason, thought it unique to Cellebration
< 1274030636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Of course not!
< 1274030640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why not?
< 1274030644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly mathematically consistent!
< 1274030653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would require infinite memory and CPU time!
< 1274030667 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274030679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plops Phantom_Hoover and alise on a torus
< 1274030693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No!
< 1274030698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just compute the random numbers on the fly!
< 1274030731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, where is ctrl-5 documented?
< 1274030739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1274030770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit>Random fill has the key combination next to it.
< 1274030779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are so many B/S rules similar to Life?
< 1274030788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, I didn't even notice that
< 1274030826 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: who speaks German here
< 1274030827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries in vain to find out what CyTime it is
< 1274030844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I don't know that we have any Germans or German speakers.
< 1274030846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274030853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: jix
< 1274030855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, alise! A shitty ancient 3d thing that I'm not paying money for because I'm not THAT nostalgic.. ok, so I am nostalgic
< 1274030870 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I need a book translated and I'm trying to get as many people to help out as possible
< 1274030886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, jix.
< 1274030895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: "Too many cooks" instantly appeared in my head.
< 1274030899 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Are you alive?
< 1274030901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having many, many people translate one book?
< 1274030921 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, one person on the internet won't translate 500 pages for me
< 1274030935 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well maybe there is one who would, but for the most part, they won't
< 1274030938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be a wiki for this...
< 1274030954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: But the result will probably not be such good quality; mixed styles and such.
< 1274030964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like getting many people to typeset one book.
< 1274030974 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I would go through after
< 1274030980 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fix things up
< 1274030981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274031002 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't afford to hire a single translator to do all of the work unfortunately.
< 1274031010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki-translation.com/tiki-index.php might be of help.
< 1274031021 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not doing this solely for myself; in fact, someone else brought it up
< 1274031054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Abuse of this function will get you reported to Security"
< 1274031061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully asking what time it is isn't "abuse"
< 1274031141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What book?
< 1274031165 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A book on continued fractions: die lehre von den kettenbrüchen von dr. oskar perron
< 1274031217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like continued fractions. A whole book on them seems excessive though :)
< 1274031254 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: CFs are pretty deep and MyStErIoUs
< 1274031268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty deep and mysterious. Or something
< 1274031286 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysterious throat
< 1274031321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I take it it's an open problem as to what pattern is the most "useful" for things like lightspeed travel?
< 1274031328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the easiest for things to survive in and what not.
< 1274031335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most lubricant fabric of space.
< 1274031357 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: haha <3
< 1274031359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Just compute the random numbers on the fly! <-- that works for 1 generation
< 1274031372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you store them after computing
< 1274031373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 0 generation I mean
< 1274031373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1274031376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For lightspeed travel, the stripy agar is probably best.
< 1274031385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any page about the stripy agar?
< 1274031392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but you need to consider all of space for each generation
< 1274031404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you need infinite space after 1 generation already
< 1274031416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally just alternating black/white rows.
< 1274031418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... but truly random cells in life will produce truly random results, right?
< 1274031420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who cares?
< 1274031420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stripy agar.
< 1274031424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did that, but it exploded.
< 1274031424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ...
< 1274031434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, lightspeed travel?
< 1274031436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, it needs stabilisation.
< 1274031444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Only across a pre-prepared space.
< 1274031448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to do so.
< 1274031458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274031482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's also the lightspeed telegraph, which is a machine with two very slow and inefficient machines at each end, and a very long strip of simple wire connecting them; one machine sends blips along this wire; they then travel at lightspeed, and the other machine absorbs them.
< 1274031500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The receiving endpoint is very inefficient, though, and the blips carried are very chaotic; so it's not practical in its current form.
< 1274031507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww
< 1274031516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaotic howso?
< 1274031522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not easily detected.
< 1274031531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you need some particles to travel across a very, very long distance, then the lightspeed telegraph will be helpful.
< 1274031532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creation and detection is very complex.
< 1274031537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely, no matter the inefficiency, it's practical given a long enough space...
< 1274031538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking LONG here.
< 1274031552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is SLOW.
< 1274031586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the scale of the example that comes with Golly, sending c/2 spaceships would be hugely faster.
< 1274031609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a cord of several million beehives long for it to be faster than c/2 spaceships, wouldn't you?
< 1274031617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the spaceship-emitter at the receiving end is just so slow.
< 1274031622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe thousands rather than millions.
< 1274031622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1274031634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is a beehive a unit of length?
< 1274031644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274031651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It isn't.
< 1274031651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beehive
< 1274031657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Say, why aren't blocks useful for the wire?
< 1274031674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274031683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a reaction that burns along a track and leaves a copy of the track behind.
< 1274031684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: iiuc basically lightspeed communication isn't really giving you anything if the machinery is so complicated you have to expand the machine by a factor >= 2 to compensate
< 1274031707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then why not use the smaller machine with c/2 stuff
< 1274031716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw that "FTL tunnel" illusion based on building the back of an already constructed front... couldn't it still be used for communication?
< 1274031717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well actually the two ends are constant-size in the lightspeed telegraph
< 1274031726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if all you want is a one-shot signal or such
< 1274031728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no matter what length the wire they emit the received stuff at the same (slow, slow) pace
< 1274031734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a really, really long wire, it'd be faster
< 1274031744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure if it's easily extensible.
< 1274031747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is there not a spaceship that survives blocks and poops one out?
< 1274031754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes but if you used it for memory, you'd have to have many receivers wouldn't you
< 1274031758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be impossible to have the complexity of the machinery depend on the length of the wire
< 1274031759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it go at lightspeed?
< 1274031760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The lightspeed telegraph is usable for communication.
< 1274031763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a sufficiently long wire.
< 1274031766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this was FTL
< 1274031767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1274031773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc
< 1274031776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not FTL.
< 1274031776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm... not neccessarily, it'd just be slower
< 1274031780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an illusion.
< 1274031786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, it is
< 1274031788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you had a, say, several million beehives long one...
< 1274031793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then it'd be faster
< 1274031833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had lots of LSTs next to each other you might be able to squeeze a decent bitrate.
< 1274031836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, presumably, by the time you could correctly detect whether or not a signal was sent through, the average speed dropped to c or lower
< 1274031849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, didn't it detect just the front iirc?
< 1274031857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assembled the back of a pre-assembled front?
< 1274031860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274031864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you think, in your expert (:P) opinion, that practical lightspeed communication will ever be feasible in GOL?
< 1274031880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and it ends up moving the head somewhat ahead of c?
< 1274031889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I see no reason why not.
< 1274031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No; it's an illusion.
< 1274031906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, and it ends up destroying the pre-assembled head if there is no ship
< 1274031918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example is the "Star Gate", an arrangement of three converging gliders that will mutually annihilate on collision. If a lightweight spaceship (LWSS) hits the colliding gliders, it will appear to move forwards by 11 cells in only 6 generations, and thus travel faster than light.[3] This illusion happens due to the fact that the glider annihilation reaction proceeds by the creation and soon-after destruction of another LWSS. When the incoming LWSS hits th
< 1274031919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e colliding gliders, it isn't transported, but instead modifies the reaction so that the newly created LWSS can survive. The only signal being transmitted is that determining whether the outgoing LWSS should survive or not. This does not need to reach its destination until after the LWSS has been "transported", and so no information needs to travel faster than light.
< 1274031924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm i guess for a RAM the actual bit rate needed is just logarithmic in the size...
< 1274031962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LST couldn't be used for memory storage; you'd use it for long-distance communication.
< 1274031973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so that hit must be timed?
< 1274031987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the known signal circuitry uses spaceships and gliders.
< 1274031991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, the most awesomest thing would be a Turing machine tape where the head is mounted on a surface that allows it to move at light-speed, and that also has a lightspeed communication line to the CPU; then, it could receive instructions from the CPU at lightspeed, modify the memory, read it, then send the read value back at lightspeed.
< 1274031996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i'm thinking of when the memory is so huge you need long-distance communication to interact with it
< 1274032000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the ultimate Turing machine tape in Life.
< 1274032014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, couldn't you have a clocked signal then? with some guns or whatever they are called
< 1274032018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that the ULTIMATE ultimate one would be where the whole tape moves so that reading and modifying the current cell is always near-instant.
< 1274032029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and make sure to send the signal synced
< 1274032033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"spaceships and gliders" sounds redundant
< 1274032047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happens if the LWSS is not there?
< 1274032048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You'd need a receiver that could be destroyed and reconstructed at c.
< 1274032057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is.
< 1274032065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, then a partial LWSS is made, but then dies
< 1274032071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well then...
< 1274032084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or you could embed the memory-instruction-processor into every cell of the tape.
< 1274032090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So that when you extend the tape it copies itself slowly.
< 1274032100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it can be used to forward with a clocked signal
< 1274032111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the partial LWSS will go away
< 1274032115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then all the communication line needs to do is, when it gets a lightspeed communication to the tape, move it into the processor; when it receives one from the tape, send it on to the CPU.
< 1274032122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tested that by not sending a LWSS there
< 1274032127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't do FTL communication
< 1274032127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of
< 1274032130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretical impossibility
< 1274032134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not in reality
< 1274032141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Excuse me?
< 1274032144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Making a c signal stop at a set distance might be impossible.
< 1274032148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't say "quantum entanglement".
< 1274032150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to kill you.
< 1274032154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but in GOL you can if you can have a clocked signal
< 1274032154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the signal head is indestructible.
< 1274032154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, try reviewing the rules of GoL
< 1274032161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, impossible in reality
< 1274032169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I do see the issue but... hm
< 1274032174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AnMaster believes he has come up with a way to do FTL communication in GOL; laugh at him to make him shut up or something
< 1274032225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, by the time you can actually use something to detect whether the LWSS is there or not, the signal has no longer seemed to have taken lightspeed, I think
< 1274032229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's patently impossible. The axioms only allow propagation of information at 1 cell/generation. END OF.
< 1274032231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*faster than lightspeed
< 1274032233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is pretty much correct
< 1274032236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, open Sginal-Circuitry/stargate.rle in golly examples. Then remove the middle LWSS in the upper line. Check the results after running it a few generations
< 1274032249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(enough to let all go to the other side)
< 1274032264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now, tell me how that does not seem to be FTL
< 1274032273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, seem to be is the operative phrase
< 1274032294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes but in which was is it not then
< 1274032298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only looks FTL if you can see everything at once.
< 1274032315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? what do you mean by that
< 1274032337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU see it as FT.
< 1274032337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
< 1274032338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FTL
< 1274032342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anything in THE UNIVERSE
< 1274032344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to PROCESS THIS OUTPUT
< 1274032348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could NOT see it all as FTL
< 1274032354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are God, we are omnipotent, we can observe everything at once
< 1274032356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells in the universe can not
< 1274032384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, eh? I can't parse that grammar
< 1274032393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, neither could I process yours
< 1274032405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which one
< 1274032409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> Sgeo, yes but in which was is it not then
< 1274032412 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274032426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, s/was/way/
< 1274032440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple typo
< 1274032454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, because the signal to kill the new LWSS or not propagates at c or less
< 1274032471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to detect the ship before that signal propagates, it will always be there
< 1274032476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Did you get the thing about it being impossible for something at C to stop?
< 1274032477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're GOL hobby physicists making a cruel mockery out of this crackpot's ideas! Mwahahaha!
< 1274032479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hm?
< 1274032487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MUST BE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO FEEL TRULY INTELLIGENT
< 1274032492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, no.
< 1274032494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wait until the ship is either destroyed or not destroyed, then the signal travelled at c or less
< 1274032495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is cool. Is it true?
< 1274032504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What if you put an amazing wall of blockingness in its path? I guess that doesn't count.
< 1274032510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not saying I am right. I just want a good explanation of why I'm not
< 1274032518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess the tick where it decided whether to destroy itself would make it c/2.
< 1274032519 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274032523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Unless there's a wall in front, it can't stop.
< 1274032528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Is that why?
< 1274032531 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: yes
< 1274032533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, there's a pre-made ship front. Trying to detect it to get a signal faster than light will always result in a detection, whether or not there was a signal
< 1274032534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1274032567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, things at c can't stop without a wall?
< 1274032575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274032588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The front of the signal can't be accessed by things behind it
< 1274032605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl phone
< 1274032658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to propagate a signal in Life faster than c:
< 1274032661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But can you have "stargates" at various points, which absorb the c-ship, then decide whether to fire another one on or not?
< 1274032666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a GoL simulation in GoL
< 1274032672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it slows it down from c for a bit, but it'd allow conditional destruction every now and then.
< 1274032682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is exactly like science-fiction space engineering.
< 1274032689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corrupt one of the cells, so it sends a signal to a cell that's not a neighbor
< 1274032690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you could do that.
< 1274032705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the overall speed would be slightly <c.
< 1274032719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would have to stop at each cell.
< 1274032722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But still a lot better than c/2, assuming your travel distance is long enough.
< 1274032723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not each cell.
< 1274032732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each tape cell.
< 1274032735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274032736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1274032739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the Turing machine.
< 1274032750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... and each cell would be right next to each other, almost.
< 1274032755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the c wire wouldn't get you much there, would it?
< 1274032763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, you do need a c wire, but only for the return trip.
< 1274032766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When accessing memory.
< 1274032772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274032772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So accessing memory would be a lot faster than writing it.
< 1274032800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now we need to work out how to create a c wire which can have signals injected at regular intervals.
< 1274032802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If mounted on an appropriate surface, how fast could a whole tape move itself so that one tape-cell is at the (non-moving) head?
< 1274032805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably not at lightspeed.
< 1274032824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, reading/writing could be at lightspeed.
< 1274032841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Very slowly.
< 1274032849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1274032863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How could reading/writing be at lightspeed, if it has to stop at every cell?
< 1274032869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The read response can go at lightspeed, but the read request can't.
< 1274032881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the write has no return journey.
< 1274032889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prime the cell to intercept a signal on a lightwire.
< 1274032905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then write whatever that was.
< 1274032927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd need very careful timing, but it's plausible.
< 1274032985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though wire crossing would come into it.
< 1274032995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it know when to intercept?
< 1274032999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't know if it's The One.
< 1274033007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it collided and then decided, it'd be significantly sub-c.
< 1274033010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell it it's the One with the head.
< 1274033022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the whole problem; telling things to the cell!
< 1274033026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274033027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires communication that stops!
< 1274033027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh right that is the issue. That LWSS travels at c/2... Why didn't you just say that
< 1274033032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what we're trying to achieve :P
< 1274033034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT would have been the clear answer
< 1274033038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because that's fucking obvious???
< 1274033039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my question
< 1274033057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on how well you know life.
< 1274033076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly wasn't to be
< 1274033079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it travelled at c do you think we'd be saying all this stuff about complicated light-speed telegraphs?
< 1274033086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, telling the cell it's The One will be much less data than read/writes.
< 1274033111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it could have been c/2 < speed < c for all I knew
< 1274033131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory for all I knew enough to make the increase worth it..
< 1274033147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could have a 2/c<<c wire to select the head.
< 1274033150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reading: "Cell, you are the one." Cell then poops off the data at lightspeed to the CPU.
< 1274033177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Writing: "Cell, you are the one. (1 bit that only the one will examine)" Cell then poops the data onto the tape.
< 1274033194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing: "Cell, you are the Write One", cell taps into lightwire and reads any signal on it.
< 1274033198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't tell the cell it's the one any faster than that, and certainly not at lightspeed because it can't stop, and if you stopped it it's <c.
< 1274033207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are those light speed bubbles? It doesn't seem mentioned on the life wiki. saw it at some other link posted here before
< 1274033213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Err, why?
< 1274033218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't be significantly faster.
< 1274033226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tape cells only store 1 bit of information.
< 1274033230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bubbles?
< 1274033238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1274033242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was linked yesterday
< 1274033249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some page about light speed stuff
< 1274033267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, yeah.
< 1274033287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So writing is at <c, reading is at c.
< 1274033291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1274033294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, sure, it'd be /one/ less thing for the cell's intercept-and-interrogate handlers to copy out.
< 1274033297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's, like, a few cells.
< 1274033297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves pathological edge effects
< 1274033322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reading isn't quite at c, since you still need interception. It's <c for the part where the "You, gimme your value" signal travels down the wire; then =c when the read signal travels back.
< 1274033340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I meant.
< 1274033355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the "oi, it's you; (and if this is a write here is a bit)" should be done with c/2 spaceships, because intercepting and re-pooping (technical term) a c blip every single cell would end up really slow.
< 1274033395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274033426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why every single cell?
< 1274033434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although tapping into the lightwire to the CPU would likely have a significant overhead.
< 1274033464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since lightwires are by their nature very easy to burn.
< 1274033465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh not GOL cell but memory cell (made up of several GOL cells)?
< 1274033473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274033478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing, I know.
< 1274033482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274033485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah
< 1274033495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call them bits.
< 1274033500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not call it memory block such
< 1274033504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what Phantom_Hoover said
< 1274033525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, we're assuming that we've come up with a relatively efficient lightspeed receiver.
< 1274033536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the Java thing on the Wiki not working?
< 1274033542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much the receiver as the sender.
< 1274033542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. why not put it into several banks. Sure it wouldn't be exactly a Turing machine. But it might be more practical
< 1274033547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like several memory banks
< 1274033569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sender needs to be able to send to a lightwire at any point on its length.
< 1274033584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus if you could branch the signal you could have it check several banks in parallel
< 1274033615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Works for me
< 1274033623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No faster
< 1274033624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, if one of them didn't return, wouldn't matter would it? The signal would die when it hit the (current) end of the tape
< 1274033625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Branching c signals is problematic.
< 1274033630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I think it's because I clicked Next
< 1274033631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, i see
< 1274033635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That broke something somehow
< 1274033639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay do it before it transmits? thus the multiple banks
< 1274033640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so we need a lightwire that can accept communications at any part
< 1274033644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the telegraph have one of them?
< 1274033647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uniform all the way along
< 1274033650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given enough space...
< 1274033651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No
< 1274033668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you have 1024 places to check you might now have 2 parallel checks of 512 places instead
< 1274033687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a probable win to me even if branching has a certain overhead
< 1274033701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the overhead is smaller than what you gain
< 1274033702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a way to break the wire without burning it, then transmitting a signal, then fixing the wire perfectly.
< 1274033721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggested branching *before* the transmitter at the CPU
< 1274033729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1274033732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, using multiple transmitters
< 1274033736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for each bank
< 1274033747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll need to be synchronised, which is another issue with this design.
< 1274033771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, local clocks synced at the start? It isn't as if life has any issues with clock drift :P
< 1274033796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd be nice if there was an agar that allowed something to pass through such that the bit around the agar's edge would easily transform it into a spaceship of some sort
< 1274033802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OK, but what about signal latency?
< 1274033810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice that Life has no clock drift or anything :P
< 1274033822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no nondeterminism
< 1274033823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm, make a pentium4 style pipeline? ;P
< 1274033835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would happen if I wrote a Life simulator with entanglement.
< 1274033841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nah, depends on what you mean. Sure some latency will happen but in which part did you mean here
< 1274033845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unfamiliar with the structure of Pentium 4s.
< 1274033851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, you can mark certain regions of space as entangled and pair them with another region.
< 1274033852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Maze work?
< 1274033856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then any change on one side happens to the other.
< 1274033860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it was a bad joke
< 1274033868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also means that a glider could innocently walk into the entangled region, then when it walks out it'll be TWO
< 1274033875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one in the original location, one in the other entangled region
< 1274033877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COOL OR WAT.
< 1274033880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, where is the latency in this case. In the sender?
< 1274033914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COOL OR WAT.
< 1274033919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you would have FTL
< 1274033923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you would
< 1274033923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can patterns cause arbitrary regions to be entangled?
< 1274033924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1274033930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't just be entanglement, it would be AWESOME entanglement.
< 1274033930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cooler
< 1274033932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No
< 1274033935 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274033935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww
< 1274033941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It depends on which cell.
< 1274033941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, a fixed region of space is entangled (by act of God).
< 1274033955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's far away, the latency is high.
< 1274033955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then if a glider moved in, it would cause cells in the entangled region to change, and thus the glider would appear weirdly in the other one.
< 1274033956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is
< 1274033963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first only the first part of the glider that hits the entangled region would appear
< 1274033969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then quickly die out because it wouldn't have enough substance
< 1274033971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mangle the glider
< 1274033972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274033974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd stop
< 1274033974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274033978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^^ see that
< 1274033982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well sure, "lower" addresses would be faster
< 1274033987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you think of any way to make something go through the entangled region and not be obliterated?
< 1274034009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe have some sort of spaceship such that part of it is still life, such that when it enters, only the bottom row is there, but it connects with the previously-still top of it
< 1274034013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts being a spaceship?
< 1274034022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but that is where the banks come into it. Basically you check multiple cells at the same time that way
< 1274034022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the transition rules, as cells in the entangled area effectively have 16 neighbours?
< 1274034024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would then obliterate the one that entered, but the one that comes out would work
< 1274034031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope, keep them the same
< 1274034037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they're treated as different cells
< 1274034039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you add one more rule
< 1274034049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whenever a cell in an entangled region changes, both entangled regions change accordingly"
< 1274034058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it changes
< 1274034061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stay the same" would not conflict
< 1274034062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you are doing <c addressing and that allows branching a signal easily then you should do it like a tree or such to have just a few levels and be able to check a lot of memory cells at once
< 1274034066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, life takes precedence over death i think
< 1274034072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though
< 1274034082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced binary tree sounds terribly complicated in life
< 1274034083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274034109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know that dot matrix printer?
< 1274034118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1274034119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tlrobinson.net/blog/2009/02/07/game-of-life-generator/
< 1274034125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the same thing as the golly generator
< 1274034131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274034134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I bet you could make one of them that takes dynamic input at simulation-time.
< 1274034137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'd be a generic output device.
< 1274034148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1274034159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look, it would be easy to do that.
< 1274034171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glider loops are basically inputs.
< 1274034186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274034192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Although...
< 1274034199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274034200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With a universal constructor, you could just construct still lifes to do the same thing.
< 1274034203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a UC would be a lot slower, right?
< 1274034206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274034218 0 :capitancar!~capitanca@186.112.204.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034221 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ooh, what about a Life unit cell with a UC? The life can hit a special region to control the UC >:)
< 1274034235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello capitancar
< 1274034270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a simulation time-controllable UC?
< 1274034280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274034283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal constructor
< 1274034284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, you just need to emulate the stored instructions.
< 1274034300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire gliders at a construction arn.
< 1274034304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/arn/arm/
< 1274034308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<capitancar> que mas
< 1274034309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> eh
< 1274034316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<capitancar> comentame
< 1274034319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitancar: english please
< 1274034328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is probably the most well-known one cell thick pattern"
< 1274034340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274034347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=One_cell_thick_pattern
< 1274034355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think blinkers might be a bit more well known
< 1274034356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1274034365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I was going to say that.
< 1274034393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for once my Internet makes sense.
< 1274034404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I didn't know of that pattern. I knew of blinkers though
< 1274034416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It drops out because of heavy rain.
< 1274034417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)(of course that is just one data point)
< 1274034421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^)//
< 1274034424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, what you'd *expect*.
< 1274034446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm?
< 1274034467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: your packets go into space man
< 1274034471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is one cold motherfucker.
< 1274034474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well for any sort of wireless communications it makes sense that weather have an effect
< 1274034494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is what it's mum said!
< 1274034504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I see :P
< 1274034561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its, also, *mom or mother for the joke
< 1274034562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the end of that one. Atmospheric conditions in outer space often interfere with transmitting. "
< 1274034609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that solar wind has an affect.
< 1274034613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect
< 1274034633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, trying to remember how I found out about GoL
< 1274034644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some program, that had a file 1103
< 1274034654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't give it a name or anything, so I called it 1103
< 1274034664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the R-pentomino)
< 1274034669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you really think you need /more/ nostalgia?
< 1274034673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out about it when I found a rather crappy GoL simulator for the Mac Dashboard.
< 1274034683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, YES!
< 1274034685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like I said, *it makes sense* for once.
< 1274034690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh
< 1274034694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: KIDDO
< 1274034696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how often does it rain there?
< 1274034702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too often.
< 1274034707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think space was green
< 1274034707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then forgot about it until I read about it again in one of Ian Stewart's books.
< 1274034713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: every time Obama cries
< 1274034713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah then it is scared of the rare clear weather
< 1274034715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every. time.
< 1274034716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been raining for the past week.
< 1274034718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cries. for freedom.
< 1274034720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't know how to handle it
< 1274034721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point I got Golly and never looked back,
< 1274034748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'm British or something.
< 1274034929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell me! Have you ever experienced DRIZZLE?
< 1274034944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DRANK TEA?
< 1274034950 0 :FredrIQ!~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; just DRIZZLE.
< 1274034964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer, pikhq! Answer, you foul-mouthed cretin!
< 1274034978 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274035019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAVE. YOU. EVER. EXPE-- oh, hello FredrIQ, sorry for your (first?) impressions of this channel, I'm just chastising silly pikhq here-- RIENCED. DRIZZLE?!
< 1274035026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qotile.net/blog/wp/?p=600
< 1274035040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look very mechanical.
< 1274035060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, qotile!
< 1274035062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that guy.
< 1274035063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Drizzle" reminds me of CT
< 1274035073 0 :FredrIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, alise
< 1274035074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Time is equated to the Z-axis"
< 1274035074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1274035075 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274035079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know what, you should be able to do?
< 1274035096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, copy a pattern from golly then paste it into the search box on lifewiki
< 1274035101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you SURE? Drizzle is not something you know to be drizzle, because its very virtue is its uncanny ability to make you feel rotten and get things wet without making an impression on anything.
< 1274035103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to search for the name of some specific pattern
< 1274035106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small ones
< 1274035108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not rain, it is worse than rain! It is of the devil and you never notice it!
< 1274035120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not malicious, it is merely so passively, mediocrely HORRIBLE that it destroys your soul!
< 1274035126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU _EVER_ EXPERIENCED DRIZZLE?
< 1274035149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qotile.net/blog/images/image5.jpg that looked physically real at first
< 1274035149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All I know is, I have certainly gone out and came back in and noticed that I was both wet and feeling awful.
< 1274035156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without noticing the wettening itself.
< 1274035163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wet, you see, wet, drizzle doesn't make you wet, it makes you drizzledupon.
< 1274035177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drizzle is nice
< 1274035187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that maybe it was 3d printed\
< 1274035196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have not experienced drizzle. You are scum to call yourself British! Never be ungrateful for your weather, for we have the powers contained within our atmosphere to crush your soul should one ever decide to introduce you to the real British climate!
< 1274035198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like-a the tea.
< 1274035205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMEMBER THIS, HEATHEN!
< 1274035253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is YOUR last name the name of a shire?
< 1274035269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274035274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott "Hird" Oxfordshire
< 1274035280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA!
< 1274035288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!
< 1274035299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, you got the good shire.
< 1274035299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters
< 1274035314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a shire.
< 1274035315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually live in Oxfordshire but it would be cool if I did
< 1274035320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mid.
< 1274035335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is inexplicably named "Worcester".
< 1274035339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you call a thing that looks like a LWSS but is one longer in the "longer" side? Thus making the gap in the opposite side 3 cells instead of 2. In the middle, and one up, in that gap there is an extra cell
< 1274035349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of a better way to describe it
< 1274035349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MWSS?
< 1274035352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274035362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yep looks like it
< 1274035370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Worcester, pah. It's Worcestershire.
< 1274035376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there should be some pattern→name lookup/search
< 1274035379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION his AnMaster with an OWSS
< 1274035383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, anyone who calls Worcestershire Sauce "Worcester sauce" is living in a state of Sin.
< 1274035390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OWSS?
< 1274035394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wust err shurr.
< 1274035401 0 :capitancar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274035412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, true.
< 1274035413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OverWeight Space Ship
< 1274035417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also note, I'm not actually called Oxfordshire
< 1274035417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more to the shire than Worcester.
< 1274035433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well aware.
< 1274035436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird.
< 1274035456 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274035464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hirdshire
< 1274035472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally a real shire
< 1274035473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you a HURD of HIRDS?
< 1274035478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, HERDS
< 1274035485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Go away, Stallmanshire.
< 1274035501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby decree that all surnames henceforth spoken in this channel must be suffixed, if they are not already, with "-shire".
< 1274035503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Go away, Shireshire.
< 1274035506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm,yeah, hird not herd
< 1274035521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hooversh
< 1274035525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an ex cathedra declaration that calls under Papal infallability.
< 1274035527 0 :Phantom_Hooversh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah!
< 1274035529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*infallibility.
< 1274035530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1274035532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeoshire
< 1274035533 0 :Phantom_Hooversh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274035537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, infallability is now the official spelling.
< 1274035544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you guys I'm the Pope btw?
< 1274035546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hoovershire
< 1274035548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aliseshire
< 1274035554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Awesome.
< 1274035569 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want something declared???
< 1274035581 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declare that you are fallible!
< 1274035595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no drizzle
< 1274035601 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER
< 1274035603 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duskregn
< 1274035610 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't have it, you can't possibly have a name for it
< 1274035617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en yr
< 1274035619 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yr
< 1274035634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact we have two names for it
< 1274035648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but google only knows one of them
< 1274035679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but we're English-speakers.
< 1274035685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE TAKE YOUR WORDS
< 1274035688 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so wait
< 1274035691 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yr.no is "drizzle.no"?
< 1274035692 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274035697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, how do I fill random to some other density than 50% in golly?
< 1274035703 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's in preferences
< 1274035711 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the Edit tab of Preferences.
< 1274035720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duskregn" and "yr" are now English words!
< 1274035720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAR!
< 1274035724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseshire: MWAHAHA
< 1274035725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't it awesome speaking English?
< 1274035730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseshire, eh? seems weird to make it a preference like that
< 1274035734 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is
< 1274035755 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *AnMastershire.
< 1274035757 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *pikhqshire
< 1274035759 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *oerjanshire
< 1274035789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi shire
< 1274035791 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta
< 1274035799 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiantkreivikunta
< 1274035805 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kreivikunta
< 1274035811 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use this name, except it has "kunt" in it
< 1274035820 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en ja shire
< 1274035822 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :シャイア
< 1274035825 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ENJOY YOUR NEW NICK
< 1274035831 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en ru shire
< 1274035833 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :графство
< 1274035837 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, rushire.
< 1274035840 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rushire.
< 1274035843 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en de shire
< 1274035845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grafschaft
< 1274035853 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAFSCHAFT
< 1274035858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Japanese just says "shaia" (I think) i.e. it only transliterated
< 1274035865 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Google
< 1274035872 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did notice it had a striking lack of kanji
< 1274035884 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Sûza?
< 1274035888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en kreivi
< 1274035890 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count
< 1274035927 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Teleportation
< 1274035930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no shire
< 1274035931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi county
< 1274035934 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shire
< 1274035937 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en kreivikunta
< 1274035940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1274035940 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :county
< 1274035945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi county
< 1274035948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lההni
< 1274035949 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok we have drizzle but apparently we don't have shires
< 1274035952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lääni*
< 1274035953 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no county
< 1274035956 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi lääni
< 1274035970 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1274035973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en lääni
< 1274035982 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1274035994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en lההni
< 1274035999 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274036004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1274036041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, golly must be leaking memory, swap trashing. Restarting it and it goes away
< 1274036042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah if i believe the german, shire would be "grevskap" in norwegian.  and our constitution prohibits nobility, so...
< 1274036044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while
< 1274036063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact shires are illegal here :)
< 1274036068 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashing takes tonnes of memory.
< 1274036100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I did set a memory limit in preferences
< 1274036109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, for both hashlife and quicklife
< 1274036110 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it going above that
< 1274036112 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1274036113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, and I was using quicklife
< 1274036123 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto de en Grafschaft
< 1274036125 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274036127 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes AnMaster 
< 1274036129 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh.
< 1274036130 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably notify the devs, then.
< 1274036138 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is your constitution amendable?
< 1274036141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, yeah mem limit was set to 500 MB for each. System has 4 GB RAM. Golly was according to htop using 80% of total memory
< 1274036148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have 4 GB swap too
< 1274036155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for suspend to disk reasons)
< 1274036161 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give it swap, BTW.
< 1274036177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: certainly
< 1274036178 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The access times make it too slow, apparently.
< 1274036179 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274036179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, well 500 MB should be much less that the limit for swap
< 1274036184 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes,
< 1274036193 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just amend it then! :P
< 1274036266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, sure there is some overhead. And then there is X and Gnome. But without golly running it is like 200 MB RAM used (including disk cache, which was almost completely eaten due to the swap trashing, kernel prefers to throw away disk cache iirc
< 1274036267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: i think that may have been one of the original provisions from 1814, even
< 1274036274 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274036283 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would a spherical playing field for GoL work?
< 1274036303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I was studying random fill. I believe it might have happened when switching between hash algorithms
< 1274036306 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, forbidding shires?; or allowing amendment?
< 1274036312 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if allowing amendment, by definition it must have been one of the first
< 1274036321 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: Don't you mean circular?
< 1274036322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: well both presumably
< 1274036323 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean spherical?
< 1274036326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I found hashlife was too slow until it has become mostly stable. But then hashlife works fine
< 1274036328 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If spherical, it's just a regular wrapping.
< 1274036335 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but what did you mean?
< 1274036347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobility and shires
< 1274036348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, so I used quicklife for some 2000-3000 generations then switched to hashlife. I believe the mem leak is related to that
< 1274036354 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the logo of the Life wiki
< 1274036361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, also I got a nice pattern that looks kind of like a face here
< 1274036367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that randomness
< 1274036371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikuntashire should be a shire.
< 1274036377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: iirc as far as land is concerned what the constitution prohibits is any form of inheritance which requires the heir not to sell the property
< 1274036382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, a collision of gliders leaving the random region produced it
< 1274036409 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks whether gliders can produce Pi-heptominoes
< 1274036422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has the effect of preventing land-based nobility families
< 1274036436 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kreivikuntashire is just shireshire :P
< 1274036449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, well I think it was gliders. A bit hard to tell: initial population was >500,000
< 1274036449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also forbids inherited noble titles separately, i think
< 1274036495 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Aircraft_carrier those islands look further away then they are
< 1274036500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those who were nobility at the time the constitution went into effect stayed so, but it didn't pass to their children.  iiuc.)
< 1274036535 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc?
< 1274036543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand correctly
< 1274036558 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: no they don't?
< 1274036565 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me they do *shrug*
< 1274036581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, it was a 2-glider collision
< 1274036612 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pi-heptominoes create a debris cloud that looks like a face and are 2-glider synthesisable
< 1274036613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, two ponds, 6 blocks, 5 blinkers. Arranged kind of like a face
< 1274036644 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a Pi-heptomino.
< 1274036646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, probably you know the collision already. Saw some list of possible 2-glider-collisions on the wiki
< 1274036657 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, try reading the chat?
< 1274036661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, how rare is that in random 25% fill I wonder
< 1274036667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: NEED MOAR SHIRE
< 1274036669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, too busy watching pretty patterns ;P
< 1274036685 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a pretty common object.
< 1274036695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also. Yes, of course it only transliterated. "Shire" is a loanword in Japanese. :)
< 1274036706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:04 [freenode] -!- シャイアshir Erroneous Nickname
< 1274036707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274036717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, sure but not quite as common outside the random block from my tries so far
< 1274036761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not "of course", there could be an equivalent concept it translates to. Although I guess that since it originates in European nobility it should be obvious that there isn't.
< 1274036782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, hm zooming a lot causes swap trash too. But yes memory limit is set and population is "only" 487141 now
< 1274036796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: hm it looks like the constitution only prohibited establishing _new_ titles, while a later law of 1821 abolished the old ones (except for people keeping titles until they died)
< 1274036801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, initial population was 4090522
< 1274036812 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire. Initial population 4090522
< 1274036832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, hm? why are you repeating what I said?
< 1274036838 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh
< 1274036841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1274036845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I saw the change
< 1274036876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: apparently norway only had 3 noble titles previous to this, anyway (which presumably made it easy to abolish)
< 1274036930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh. And how many had each of those types of title?
< 1274036937 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Again, if you're getting persistent memory leaks, you should tell the devs.
< 1274036967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, it does seem related to switching algorithm on the fly. Not completely sure. It is a bit random...
< 1274036985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, but yes I will. Probably not this evening. Got some other things to do really...
< 1274036994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION minimises irc client
< 1274037008 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster AnMaster AnMaster
< 1274037025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well three Stamhus (shires?), really.  actually one of them (Jarlsberg) still exists, the constitution only prohibits making new ones
< 1274037066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Even if there *was* an equivalent concept, the Japanese would still probably have this as a loan word. They treat foreign languages a *bit* like English does.
< 1274037076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is mostly from the norwegian wikipedia article on Adel, which is marked as not very good though
< 1274037082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, too, has native words as a *minority* of the words in the language.
< 1274037083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True that :-)
< 1274037197 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, food.
< 1274037218 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1274037235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey, copumpkin.
< 1274037240 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai
< 1274037241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise you were in here.
< 1274037248 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic!
< 1274037266 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERRIBLE IDEA: Continuous Life
< 1274037279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1274037330 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the neighbours are are determined how small the cell number is, order of magnitude; so (0,0) would have neighbours (-1,0), (0,-1), (1,0), (0,1), (1,1), (-1,-1), etc.
< 1274037345 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (0.1,0.1) would have (-0.2,0.1), (0.1,-0.2), etc
< 1274037352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: are you dual to a pumpkin?
< 1274037354 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exercise: Proof this actually works out to anything consistent
< 1274037381 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah
< 1274037402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good
< 1274038228 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1274038246 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can send a signal at 2c/3 to anywhere in the universe.
< 1274038255 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pentadecathlon.com/lifeNews/2009/03/working_2c3_signal_elbow.html
< 1274038259 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to do that!
< 1274038268 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have preferred 3c/4
< 1274038297 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: what does that mean?
< 1274038301 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat though
< 1274038318 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, is it because it's 2/3 instead of 1/2 of light?
< 1274038321 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need a wire right?
< 1274038332 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that you can have a 2c/3 signal wire going to any point in the universe,
< 1274038337 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see
< 1274038339 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cornering thing
< 1274038359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!
< 1274038362 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the bend doubles the signal.
< 1274038364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, HERE?!
< 1274038370 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides
< 1274038422 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hide forever, mister peebles!
< 1274038430 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1274038441 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must find a c signal turn!
< 1274038467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, on life wiki (polyomino page): "Charles Corderman discovered the switch engine by running an exhaustive computer search on all decominoes. The machine that discovered the decomino seed was unique, possessing an unusual architecture. "
< 1274038471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea what that is about?
< 1274038483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no citation or any further details
< 1274038490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to what this special architecture would be
< 1274038493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why it is relevant
< 1274038504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google didn't turn up anything useful
< 1274038511 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that the search program can't be run on your own computer.
< 1274038519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, so in what way was it special
< 1274038534 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably just some custom machine he built for the purpose.
< 1274038538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alien technology, duh
< 1274038553 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably just a custom searching machine
< 1274038554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, FPGAs? Doesn't say anything about when... so no idea if it was FPGAs or something else
< 1274038562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1274038566 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably fpga
< 1274038575 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I think my hunch is that a c turn is impossible
< 1274038584 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274038588 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, you can only use one elbow
< 1274038597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, actually
< 1274038598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274038599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A switch engine (or Corder engine[1]) is a methuselah that was found by Charles Corderman in 1971. It is unstable by itself, but it can be used to make c/12 diagonal puffers and spaceships. "
< 1274038603 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: One is enough.
< 1274038605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1971, can't have been FPGA
< 1274038611 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: because a turn basically has to deconstruct and then reconstruct a vehicle since life has no notion of "turning" as such
< 1274038613 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about layout concerns?
< 1274038615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274038638 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: My conjecture is that the complexity of the operations required to rebuild it rotated are sufficiently complex that they will always take longer than a straight line
< 1274038652 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, couldn't you terminate the wire and retransmit before a second elbow
< 1274038653 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274038655 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: However, it may be possible to build an elbow that, while running slower than c, can plug directly on to two lightspeed wires.
< 1274038659 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Why can't a signal induce another signal in a wire at 90 degrees?
< 1274038668 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: It can, but it'll take more than one generation.
< 1274038684 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 1-gen c turn is pretty silly.
< 1274038700 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the 2c/3 turn takes more than 1 gen.
< 1274038704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it an issue if there is some delay in that?
< 1274038727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as most of the time there is no delay I mean
< 1274038738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no more than c*
< 1274038752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build it with mostly straight segments and turning isn't an issue
< 1274038758 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because without a delay it's as simple as having a receiver and emitter right next to each other.
< 1274038765 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, sure, is possible, but the point is something that's practical, unlike that.
< 1274038781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, see ^ "<AnMaster> err, no more than c*"
< 1274038808 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that much is obvious
< 1274038840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, so as long as you have mostly straight lines with just a few corners it will still be roughly the same speed
< 1274038848 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already know this
< 1274038853 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can theoretically make corner-turners now
< 1274038855 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just they're SLOW
< 1274038856 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really really slow
< 1274038860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, how slow?
< 1274038860 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impractically slow for everything
< 1274038866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you do them?
< 1274038870 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as slow as the receiving and sending ends of a telegraph put together
< 1274038874 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's exactly what one is.
< 1274038881 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Suppose you have a signal with an exposed spark, which can induce a signal cleanly in a wire at 90 degrees.
< 1274038888 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically it.
< 1274038890 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :receive it, send it into a receiver that sends out the same signal, but on another wire, that's tilted
< 1274038893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, so how long does the cable need to be for that to be useful?
< 1274038902 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, for the LTS.
< 1274038903 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: too long
< 1274038907 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/LTS/LST/
< 1274038912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, well depends on what you need to do with it
< 1274038914 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LST is already hopelessly impractical.
< 1274038931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, LST seems mostly useful for high speed, very long, links?
< 1274038946 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, which is nothing in practice.
< 1274038948 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very VERY long
< 1274038949 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you need to get across tens of thousands of cells.
< 1274038961 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Golly/Miscellaneous/lightspeed.rle -- this is just a fuse isn't it??
< 1274038962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, yes and can't that happen?
< 1274038978 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightspeed is FUN!
< 1274038980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse would work fine for a one-time signal no?
< 1274038983 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares about practical?
< 1274038984 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, each pulse is one bit, so the information is dribbling.
< 1274038985 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes something... Most things in Life move not that much slower than lightspeed.
< 1274038988 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is any of GoL practical?
< 1274038992 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those guys' doppler shift must be fucking insane.
< 1274038993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, good point: no
< 1274039002 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: not a good question.
< 1274039014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, sure it is :P
< 1274039018 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A fuse is impractical, because you need to rebuild it at <c.
< 1274039035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, but that only applies if you need to rebuild it
< 1274039039 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you do
< 1274039045 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-bit communication at a specified time?
< 1274039045 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lightspeed_wire the bit about 2c/3 turns seems.. obsolete?
< 1274039046 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a clock
< 1274039053 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it'll always be the same time
< 1274039062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, yes why not. A "stop, we found the prime we looked for" signal
< 1274039063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1274039066 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I've never built a clock in Life. Or, well, much at all.
< 1274039073 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll do that. This isn't an unsolved problem is it Hoovershire?
< 1274039083 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clock?
< 1274039084 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't need lightspeed for that
< 1274039087 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Yes.
< 1274039090 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any glider gun is a clock.
< 1274039091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, well you could want it
< 1274039093 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Basically a glider gun--yeah
< 1274039103 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Still.
< 1274039111 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: There has to be some sort of simpler clock.
< 1274039114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, you don't _need_ lightspeed for anything
< 1274039126 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*All* signal circuitry has a clock, in the form of the shuttle type it uses.
< 1274039145 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the smallest glider gun?
< 1274039151 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosper, AFAIK.
< 1274039160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, you seldom build clocks in non-CAs
< 1274039166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except VHDL and such I guess
< 1274039167 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGA
< 1274039170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't really
< 1274039172 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Still? Sheesh
< 1274039178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you use an external clock signal probably
< 1274039188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't build one in VHDL except for simulation
< 1274039197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274039199 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's gosper
< 1274039201 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, multiple elbows are useful for closing loops?
< 1274039206 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the Game of Life, for every p greater than or equal to 14 it is possible to construct a glider gun in which the gliders are emitted with period p.[1]]]
< 1274039208 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274039212 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a LWSS clock that can emit faster?
< 1274039218 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Gosper makes sense, because the smallest would be easily-discovered.
< 1274039222 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even something which can emit some sort of pulse at c?
< 1274039225 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't have to travel at c)
< 1274039230 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just be emitted every c... or multiple of c)
< 1274039235 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like c/2 or something would be cool
< 1274039235 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would hit itself.
< 1274039254 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have to be gliders
< 1274039288 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and lightspeed.rle isn't a fuse.
< 1274039299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, can't gun and bullets travel at same speed? If they are traveling in opposite directions at least
< 1274039306 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, clocks are unnecessary in Life.
< 1274039353 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most technology is innately p30 or p46, so it's all synchronised.
< 1274039374 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I'd like a clock that goes faster than p14 though
< 1274039388 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even just something that emits some sort of pulse every 13 generations would be cool
< 1274039392 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to be a glider
< 1274039427 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, need to go for a minute.
< 1274039466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, define a clock? Oscillator which emit something?
< 1274039475 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1274039478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274039493 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is acceptable if the oscillator needs a nearby wire to emit stuff onto.
< 1274039532 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p91080 guns
< 1274039536 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039538 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.. why?
< 1274039553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was the page with the bubbles
< 1274039561 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is lightspeed transmission stuff that inefficient, that a p91090 gun is useful?
< 1274039588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274039590 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's just transmission stuff
< 1274039609 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, those bubbles.
< 1274039620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, what else?
< 1274039648 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was just saying.
< 1274039649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lifewiki times out again
< 1274039653 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's how you make stripe agar.
< 1274039664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274039674 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the page actually talks about makign stripe agar?
< 1274039680 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has stripe agar.
< 1274039689 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039696 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the alive/dead alternating rows -- that's stripe agar.
< 1274039719 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Are you still on the p13 clock?
< 1274039738 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: ? On?
< 1274039740 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd like one.
< 1274039759 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... at the left and right ends of the white lines, just on the border; on the top and bottom, alive cells with two dead cells in-between, such that there are alive cells on both very edges at both top and bottom... and both the top and bottom non-bordered lines should be alive.
< 1274039764 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I think I know how to make stripe agar now.
< 1274039770 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still life like that?
< 1274039816 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: You might want to look at Greyships and spacefillers.
< 1274039825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greyships?
< 1274039830 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work by creating agars, normally striped.
< 1274039842 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know spacefillers.
< 1274039847 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that isn't a clock :P
< 1274039848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, I can't find any page on the lifewiki about p91090
< 1274039853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, got a link?
< 1274039853 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A spaceship containing an agar with 1/2 density.
< 1274039865 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, search http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, "phrase not found", did you typo it?
< 1274039897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed you did
< 1274039902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says p91080 there
< 1274039925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copy-pasted from <Sgeoshire> Is lightspeed transmission stuff that inefficient, that a p91090 gun is useful?
< 1274039939 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274039945 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1274039968 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I just made some stripe agar, but it isn't stable.
< 1274039979 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to do something to it after I prepare the base material? Does it have to be a certain size? It looks right...
< 1274040001 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stripe agar needs regular bookends at the boundaries.
< 1274040008 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's obvious?
< 1274040018 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that.
< 1274040034 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be 3n+1 long.
< 1274040044 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the bookends don't work.
< 1274040048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, got a link to an example grayship? the life wiki basically have a stub
< 1274040075 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: http://sprunge.us/UVeS
< 1274040077 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I do wrong?
< 1274040104 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cambrain-Explosion.rle has some greyships at the top.
< 1274040131 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274040143 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4LYV_SFknMc/S9H7jdd_tQI/AAAAAAAAAQk/dKoK6biWn9Y/s1600/KFC-KRISPY-KREME-LUTHER-DOUBLE-DOWN-DOUGHNUT-BUN-D.jpg
< 1274040166 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274040169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, which directory is it in?
< 1274040180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't in spaceships?
< 1274040193 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: The bookends on the sides need to be on every other line.
< 1274040201 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black line, that is.
< 1274040211 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Miscellaneous.
< 1274040213 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are on every other line.
< 1274040216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, ah
< 1274040221 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1274040232 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, makes it so inefficient?
< 1274040251 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: the only signals that like travelling along wire at light-speed are chaotic and hard to both produce and detect
< 1274040259 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to produce you need to like collide gliders together at precise timings
< 1274040261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, which site is the front?
< 1274040262 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the wire needs to repair
< 1274040270 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and detecting them at the end requires very complicated, large and controlled machinery
< 1274040280 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://b3s23life.blogspot.com/
< 1274040281 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The one pointing up.
< 1274040298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, are that entire group greyships or?
< 1274040311 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TO9A8O1Azeg/RnZs8QADCGI/AAAAAAAAAIM/11c9lJax9Z0/s1600-h/Pi-tracks-DRH-17Feb1997.GIF CREEY FACE CIRCUITS
< 1274040316 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CREEPY
< 1274040343 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The top cluster.
< 1274040352 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything with a striped agar in it.
< 1274040406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274040447 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a pattern that stretches a striped agar horizontally at -123, 22
< 1274040546 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Caterpillar spaceship is amazing.
< 1274040552 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It carries a whole galaxy of life organisms.
< 1274040571 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's... not even /that/ slow
< 1274040575 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274040649 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were the beginnings of a (13,1) spaceship on the caterpillar page.
< 1274040694 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand the (a,b) notation.
< 1274040721 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It moves 13 cells left for every 1 it moves up.
< 1274040728 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274040734 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1274040738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha!
< 1274040739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1274040745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1274040746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hoovershire
< 1274040755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if fizzie is away for the weekend or something?
< 1274040869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois says he's been idle for almost 24 hours, so maybe he's away for today.
< 1274040932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274040949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: *sobs*
< 1274040993 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be first spaceship tha does not move in one of 8 main directions? Or has some such ship aleady been built?
< 1274040999 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274041020 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the first.
< 1274041032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jan Vitek: Flash is to computing, what porn is to cinema?
< 1274041032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor Richards: ... YES. I agree with that statement 115%.
< 1274041053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hello, Richardsshire.
< 1274041060 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, everything interesting in Life is found with searches these days.
< 1274041061 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So what's wrong with my agar?
< 1274041070 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274041075 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1274041087 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274041111 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do wrong?
< 1274041112 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Jan Vitek's Facebook photo: http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAwAgACAAAAAJOxKn1xL6DjDHhndQyKszQjZLwByUy-T-E0I5xvwVi4D_tpmGTj9TFtyFVsNHHm5cWyKXCFE9IzkwvJZABz70l0zVm61rAYnYoZxN3j_FXfjxVH0OgTyfYPdvehsrEVuG&size=normal
< 1274041119 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO AGREE WITH THIS MAN
< 1274041121 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: It's the .rle I gave you
< 1274041125 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It self-destructs
< 1274041125 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1274041131 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UVeS
< 1274041134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: He's my advisor :P
< 1274041137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not away, I'm just busy.)
< 1274041149 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I knew you'd like that
< 1274041160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: That's Jan Vitekshire, sir.
< 1274041167 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhqshire: Whoops
< 1274041169 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a yummy breakfast sandwich
< 1274041178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Breakfast sandwich"
< 1274041178 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: I told you: the end bookends need to be on alternate blank rows.
< 1274041180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobs more*
< 1274041182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thats Worcestershire to you!
< 1274041186 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So not every one?
< 1274041189 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *that's
< 1274041190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorRichardsvi
< 1274041195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041195 0 :GregorRichardsvi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well foo
< 1274041199 0 :GregorRichardsvi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Richardsville
< 1274041202 0 :Richardsville!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S RIGHT
< 1274041210 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Josiah "Pick Headquarters" Worcestershire, amirite
< 1274041217 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RichardsSHIRE, you uncouth nothing.
< 1274041222 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all SHIRES here.
< 1274041236 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivkunta: It needs another row.
< 1274041241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Lawls
< 1274041251 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Okay.
< 1274041266 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Er, that can't work.
< 1274041270 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the end bits need to attach to an on row.
< 1274041310 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/pqjVb0mg
< 1274041315 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274041318 0 :Richardsville!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Richardsgrafstvo
< 1274041320 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a stable one.
< 1274041343 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you change?
< 1274041346 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't paste RLE...
< 1274041363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wovencroft.com/Images/tm51610a.gif how helpful to have the time and date disappear and reappear like that
< 1274041368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite would be a badass mineral
< 1274041400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: shirely you can't be serious
< 1274041414 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amirite XD
< 1274041423 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: DOTH TELLETH ME
< 1274041436 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added another on row and alternated!
< 1274041444 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Hot.
< 1274041445 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the lightspeed bubbles!
< 1274041461 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But adding another row cannot possibly work!
< 1274041482 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Worst - animated - gif - ever
< 1274041534 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: If you add another row
< 1274041539 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: then the end row is not on
< 1274041543 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can't add the stabilisers
< 1274041545 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another on row.
< 1274041556 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What, two on rows in a row?
< 1274041574 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to inform you that that cannot possibly work.
< 1274041621 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://psychoticdeath.com/life.htm
< 1274041622 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSYCHOTIC DEATH
< 1274041623 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOHN CONWAY'S GAME OF LIFE!
< 1274041658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun. The mayor posts an rtf, and everyone has problems
< 1274041729 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So I need there to be off rows before the final on row that do not haev a pixel, right?
< 1274041730 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have
< 1274041746 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work, either.
< 1274041763 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the lightspeed bubbles!
< 1274041764 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I don't just want to use your fixed version because I want to figure out what the heck I did wrong!
< 1274041771 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't!
< 1274041812 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Hoovershire> http://pastebin.com/pqjVb0mg
< 1274041816 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly what i pasted....
< 1274041850 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you paste the wrong thing
< 1274041864 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you see how the row ends have dead cells with 3 live neighbours?
< 1274041906 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041910 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need to remove every other one?
< 1274041932 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041944 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the last row can't have a bookend on it.
< 1274041990 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ it works now
< 1274041991 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274042012 0 :Hoovershire!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042050 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274042053 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self; make a program to generate stripe agar.
< 1274042061 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: now i just need to figure out how to transmit signals :)
< 1274042094 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest signal for a stripe agar is made as follows:
< 1274042096 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274042105 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete 4 cells from a row.
< 1274042130 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that destroys the agar.
< 1274042150 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one end of the empty bit, put a cell one up from the stripe
< 1274042172 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1274042176 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left or right end
< 1274042178 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1274042179 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the short or long end
< 1274042179 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a cell one down from the stripe at the next cell.
< 1274042201 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cells up and down are at the back of the blip.
< 1274042221 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above an on cell
< 1274042223 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or above an off cel
< 1274042225 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cell
< 1274042232 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are we talking
< 1274042234 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1274042236 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above an off cell
< 1274042237 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#...............
< 1274042238 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1274042238 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.#
< 1274042244 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1274042244 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a c
< 1274042248 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the middle of the c has blanks after it
< 1274042276 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  #
< 1274042278 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#       #
< 1274042279 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    #
< 1274042287 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that.
< 1274042302 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a monospaced font, yeah
< 1274042303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is someone here using Win98
< 1274042312 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1274042317 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not
< 1274042322 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire:
< 1274042325 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o.....
< 1274042326 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o....o
< 1274042327 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1274042328 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..o...
< 1274042331 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it.
< 1274042372 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works; but when it reaches the end it destroys the agar.
< 1274042375 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to prevent that?
< 1274042416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this big, important event: 34 people
< 1274042421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43 people online total
< 1274042425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to be hundreds
< 1274042427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1274042489 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042524 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: On this channel?
< 1274042545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, no
< 1274042548 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, on some shitty old 3D VR game he likes
< 1274042548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Cybertown
< 1274042552 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick any; he likes it
< 1274042553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this "Town Hall" meeting
< 1274042567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, um, are you sure you're not alise in dis.. you're alise, aren't you?
< 1274042580 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit.
< 1274042585 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This name means "shire" in Finnish :P
< 1274042597 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Yes, the blip is unstable at beginning and end.
< 1274042612 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: There's no machine you can surgically attach to the end of the agar to keep it stable?
< 1274042619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274042620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like it enough to pay $5/month
< 1274042622 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.
< 1274042659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some areas of the city have been "fixed". DOn't know what could have possibly been broken, other than the fact that it's dying
< 1274042660 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt we'll be able to find one without a search program.
< 1274042664 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So agar is not that useful, unless we can make stable, stationary machines that work inside agar.
< 1274042673 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then agar would essentially become a mini-CA in itself.)
< 1274042680 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Why not?
< 1274042684 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Don't
< 1274042691 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Because you can't detect any signals, it's just chaos
< 1274042718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about <thing that the new parent company has been promising for years>? "Dead"
< 1274042733 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there might be a way of fixing it.
< 1274042762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I will say that I _HATE_ IVN
< 1274042772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The company that owns Cybertown)
< 1274042838 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WP entry is fun.
< 1274042845 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NPOV? Who needs it?
< 1274042888 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042919 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274042944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most deadly thing to Cybertown was the newly added cost, and the fact that non-payers can do very, very little
< 1274042946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can barely chat
< 1274042998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two places
< 1274043013 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is XOR universal?
< 1274043035 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274043056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"universal"?
< 1274043064 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: i don't think
< 1274043067 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doijfsdof thingy
< 1274043076 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well (x XOR true) is !x
< 1274043079 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274043111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: XOR only gives you linear functions
< 1274043113 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't construct AND or OR AFAIK.
< 1274043120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mod 2)
< 1274043158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need a 1 or EQV to get all of them
< 1274043162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274043230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice is all about what sets of boolean functions generate which others
< 1274043267 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1 is acceptable
< 1274043284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR gives AP_0, with 1 too you get A
< 1274043290 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's A
< 1274043334 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all affine boolean functions, i.e. f(x1,...,xn) x_(i_1) + ... + x_(i_k) + C
< 1274043370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P_0 are the 0-preserving ones, AP_0 is their intersection
< 1274043414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ == XOR)
< 1274043427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1274043445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f(x1,...,xn) = ...
< 1274043471 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.integratedvirtualnetworks.com/index1.php?is_ct=1 <<===CYBERTOWN KILLERS
< 1274043504 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's "everything"
< 1274043507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274043516 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what did they do?
< 1274043547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forced Cybertown to move to a subscription system
< 1274043549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: top symbol, apparently
< 1274043555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lattice after all
< 1274043565 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you denote it textwise
< 1274043568 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh shut up
< 1274043590 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274043592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: it's the top symbol, i said, it requires unicode
< 1274043600 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that
< 1274043600 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Read it.
< 1274043602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that article's notation
< 1274043602 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it T
< 1274043605 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: i have.
< 1274043611 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1274043625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: T is used for something else, although only with indexes
< 1274043628 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've asked on the forum what the state of the art is, as that page is from 2008.
< 1274043638 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch this space.
< 1274043646 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -|-
< 1274043654 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: link to the forum? think I've seen it before
< 1274043658 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there a game of life irc channel?
< 1274043680 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/index.php
< 1274043684 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.
< 1274043689 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#b3s23, then.
< 1274043691 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well.
< 1274043715 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1274043716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are 5 maximal subclasses of the top, M, A, P0, P1 and D.  to generate everything you need to have a function outside each of them.  note that one function can be outside several, e.g. NAND obviously isn't in any of them
< 1274043749 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Howsabout we put "esoteric programming languages" SOMEWHERE in the topic? | Esperanto is still bannable! | Je peux utiliser une langue étrangère aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | Jag älskar Unicode i mina topicar.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274043778 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For Game of Life discussion go to #b2s23  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274043808 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043813 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043817 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone played with one of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug
< 1274043824 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274043831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people who have
< 1274043870 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274043933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M are monotonic functions.  AND, OR, 0 and 1 generate all of them
< 1274044111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: #b3s23!
< 1274044114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: #b3s23!
< 1274044121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: #b3s23!
< 1274044126 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274044129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: #b3s23!
< 1274044134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: #b3s23!
< 1274044137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have done that in one message! :P
< 1274044172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know which class each of your basic functions generate, that hasse diagram in the article tells you everything else about what it generates
< 1274044182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We invite you to log in and learn more about Silhouette and the Nexos."
< 1274044205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID NOT SAY JOINING WAS OPTIONAL
< 1274044208 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: #b3s23!
< 1274044235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND is /\P, OR is \/P, NOT is UD and XOR is AP_0
< 1274044274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274044296 0 :ParaSait!~chatzilla@d5153C34A.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a /\ c /\ e /\ ...) something (b \/ d \/ f \/ ...)
< 1274044309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(variadic)
< 1274044310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that table to the left of the diagram tells you a set of generators for each class
< 1274044313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different values of something
< 1274044319 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi people
< 1274044323 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a little question
< 1274044331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: er what
< 1274044337 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can somebody explain me FukYorBrane? :P*
< 1274044348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: no but Gregor can
< 1274044360 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1274044379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think that depends a lot on "something"
< 1274044379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean er what
< 1274044394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a /\ c /\ e /\ ...) xor (b \/ d \/ f \/ ...)
< 1274044401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1274044414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well op(a,b) is XOR itself
< 1274044449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can X-D
< 1274044455 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274044466 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just had a few questions bout it
< 1274044472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It's sort of like Brainfuck, except your "tape" is the other player's code, so you want to ... y'know ... break it.
< 1274044476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: op(a,a) is 0, then you get op(a,0,c) = a /\ c and op (0,b,0,d) = b \/ d
< 1274044485 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how that @ work?
< 1274044529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It switches your "write head" from one program to the other.
< 1274044530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1274044532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you get not
< 1274044540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,1) would do it
< 1274044541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, err, don't recall how it decides where to land you in the other program >_>
< 1274044545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we get 1?
< 1274044552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 0, and, or, xor...
< 1274044558 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. That's what I was wondering too :P
< 1274044562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: same location?
< 1274044565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you get P_0.  it does not contain not.
< 1274044578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you need a 1 to get not from xor
< 1274044581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Could be, mabye modulo program size or something? I'd have to look at the code to recall.
< 1274044623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: (P_0 has \/ and + listed as generators)
< 1274044652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that he may pay $5 every few months
< 1274044654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ == XOR again)
< 1274044663 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a xor c xor e xor ...) and (b xand d xand f xand ...)
< 1274044683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: basically P_0 is every function which maps all 0's to 0
< 1274044685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, xand...
< 1274044690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does xand even make any sense
< 1274044696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES NO SENSE.
< 1274044700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a xor b = (a or b) and not (a and b)
< 1274044703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a xand b = (a and b) and not (a and b)
< 1274044704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274044704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you mean <-> ?
< 1274044711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1274044718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah let's go with that
< 1274044719 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274044720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go now.
< 1274044723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a xor c xor e xor ...) and (b eqv d eqv f eqv ...)
< 1274044737 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well I could do some research in the source of that fyb implementation. But I can't actually run that program cause for some reason it crashes asa I exec it with those 2 args
< 1274044743 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm using it wrong
< 1274044754 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet!
< 1274044754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well op(a,b) = a and b
< 1274044806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: AFAIK it's just ./fukyorbrane <program> <program
< 1274044807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1274044808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a) = a and a, that doesn't help much
< 1274044814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much as in at all
< 1274044828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a,a) = (a xor a) and (a <-> a) = 0
< 1274044834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: And E_WORKSFORME. What's your platform?
< 1274044842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,b,c) := (a xor b) and (b = c)
< 1274044856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (a or b) and not (a and b) and (b = c)
< 1274044860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ???
< 1274044913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,c) := (a xor c) and (b = c)
< 1274044935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,0,c,0) = (a xor c) and 1 = a xor c
< 1274044947 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Vista. Compiled with codeblocks
< 1274044954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have and, xor and 0
< 1274044983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we get 1?
< 1274045010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1274045033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot ensure the xor part is 1
< 1274045049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't it been proven that nand and nor are the only universal ones
< 1274045053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it has been.
< 1274045072 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274045074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for binary operators, i think
< 1274045098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is not even a single function really
< 1274045174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274045217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is also P_0, we cannot get anything more
< 1274045300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait and is just /\P
< 1274045384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1274045388 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: laaaaaaaaaaaawlz
< 1274045396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: Not guaranteed to work on shitty OSes :P
< 1274045398 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274045402 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1274045405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c) := (a nor c) xor b
< 1274045407 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've known :D
< 1274045419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: That being said, it really still ought to >_>
< 1274045427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (not (a or b)) xor b
< 1274045434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have more details than "it crashed" as per why it crashed?
< 1274045458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ([not (a or b)] or b) and not ([not (a or b)] and b)
< 1274045464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a) = (not a) xor a = 1
< 1274045482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274045483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nor
< 1274045487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx wolfram alpha
< 1274045497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1274045498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped c
< 1274045499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (not (a or c)) xor b
< 1274045506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,1,c) = a or c
< 1274045509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ([not (a or c)] or b) and not ([not (a or c)] and b)
< 1274045557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nor c) xor b seems to be the simplest way to phrase it.
< 1274045571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't get 0 without one 0 already
< 1274045574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proven by alpha)
< 1274045591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough.  we get 1, or
< 1274045616 0 :FredrIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -
< 1274045629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c) := (a xor b) nor (a xor c)
< 1274045643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a) := (a xor a) nor (a xor a) = 0 nor 0 = not (0 or 0) = 1
< 1274045644 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well I run it with the line: fukyorbrane.exe prog1.fyb prog2.fyb, then I get a console window and immediately a stopped working message
< 1274045651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er is this still the same one?
< 1274045652 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much more infos than that
< 1274045656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, new one
< 1274045663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: I don't know what a "stopped working message" is ...
< 1274045671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i wasn't quite finished
< 1274045675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1274045677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on
< 1274045684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i proved it isn't complete!
< 1274045686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274045724 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well you know. Windows detects a runtime error and then gives a little window that says it's looking for a solution and eventually wants to make an error report, etc etc
< 1274045727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but 1 and or only give us VP_1 which has the whole T tower above it
< 1274045737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: Ah ... well that's quite useless.
< 1274045743 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be any of those
< 1274045751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anywho, EgoBot can run FYB :P
< 1274045754 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help fyb
< 1274045754 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for fyb!
< 1274045759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: WELL SCREW YOU THEN
< 1274045763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the right T tower)
< 1274045778 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help fukyorbrane
< 1274045779 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for fukyorbrane!
< 1274045781 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274045786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1274045809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It has a full-on FYB hill, but I apparently was too stupid to put any of that in !help :P
< 1274045817 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045820 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... how to use it?
< 1274045826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> op(a,b,c) := (a nor c) xor b
< 1274045865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb badmangler +!>
< 1274045872 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_badmangler: 0.0
< 1274045876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274045880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now where does it put the hill ...
< 1274045890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/in_egobot/
< 1274045892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go
< 1274045938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274045941 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274045952 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274045963 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well
< 1274045973 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot might be able to run fyb, but I still don't get it xD
< 1274045986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can read the code even if you can't make it work on Windoze :P
< 1274045999 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yea
< 1274046218 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lurves using the stack pointer as a general purpose register
< 1274046305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get the stack back?
< 1274046318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't.
< 1274046546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is for the weak.
< 1274046681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok i've confirmed that is not in T_1^2 and now my head hurts :D
< 1274046685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1274046687 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1274046691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it must be P_1
< 1274046698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274046700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You run HackEgo, right?
< 1274046716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh
< 1274046721 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we run it on #b3s23 with bgolly as one of the programs?
< 1274046773 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put whatever programs you want to on it.
< 1274046800 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you do it yourself :P
< 1274046809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per putting it on another channel, sure.
< 1274047037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33  alise> op(a,b,c) := (a xor b) nor (a xor c)
< 1274047037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33  alise> op(a,a,a) := (a xor a) nor (a xor a) = 0 nor 0 = not (0 or 0) = 1
< 1274047043 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274047043 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274047046 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047046 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1274047100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: on to the next one you said
< 1274047120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can get 0 in it
< 1274047135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know we could just write a computer program to figure out all this
< 1274047141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it is just a truth table...
< 1274047160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to check for containment in P_0 and P_1 all you need to do is apply the function to all 1's and all 0's respectively
< 1274047188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1274047193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274047199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse that
< 1274047219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, exactly
< 1274047222 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047239 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.125.162 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M, D and A aren't too hard to check either
< 1274047271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah a program could check if everything is generated
< 1274047283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, sounds fun, /me writes it
< 1274047286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with your freaky post names though
< 1274047290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with durned good easy names
< 1274047341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned this stuff from post's original book, he used another completely different notation
< 1274047385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this notation is actually an improvement :D
< 1274047439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much less unexplained indexes, most combinations are written with intersection/concatenation instead)
< 1274047527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == ~((p\/q) /\ ~(p /\ q))
< 1274047527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty clearly possible to write a program to check exactly which class is generated, too
< 1274047534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(~p /\ ~q) = p \/ q
< 1274047539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(p /\ ~q) = ~p \/ q
< 1274047552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == ~(p \/ q) \/ (p /\ q)
< 1274047556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == (p nor q) \/ (p /\ q)
< 1274047575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i guess class = clone in the modern notation
< 1274047722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets bored of writing the program :P
< 1274047767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, "If you're still not convinced, then construct such a pattern for yourself. You'll find that it either functions below lightspeed, explodes, or otherwise detects the 'ghost' LWSSes as being actual ones, and emits a spaceship regardless of whether a spaceship actually entered the device."
< 1274048046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274048753 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]
< 1274048862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/sml SML FUCK YEAH
< 1274049015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might get a 30 day renewal of Cybertown access
< 1274049061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.list4everything.com/list-of-idioms-to-use-at-workplace.html
< 1274049065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIST OF IDIOMS TO USE AT WORKPLACE
< 1274049096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.list4everything.com/sentences-that-are-used-repeatedly-by-professionals.html
< 1274049100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SENTENCES THAT ARE USED REPEATEDLY BY PROFESSIONALS
< 1274049112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comment.
< 1274049133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that's not a sentence.
< 1274049182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing mathematicians
< 1274049191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "I conjecture that ..."
< 1274049210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it is presumably correct, modulo mathematicians.
< 1274049226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in CyberTown!
< 1274049276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We leave it as an exercise for the reader..."
< 1274049290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mathematicians love that one.  trust me.
< 1274049336 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274049401 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274049519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the proof left as an exer-
< 1274049600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as possible of it, anyhow
< 1274049657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my advisor sometimes referred to "proofs by general nonsense", although i'm not sure that term is very popular
< 1274049684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this applied especially to heavy use of category theory :)
< 1274049702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proofs/proof/
< 1274049724 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274049744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: category theory = general abstract nonsense
< 1274049778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274049795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there are actually google hits to apparently real papers using the term
< 1274049850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a very common term
< 1274049858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old too (1940s says wp)
< 1274049862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love category theory
< 1274049868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hawt
< 1274049872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... everything
< 1274049905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/AbstractNonsense1.png
< 1274049912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/AbstractNonsense2.png
< 1274049915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^ relevant
< 1274050015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first published paper had some nice abstract nonsense in it, i recall
< 1274050027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not using that term though)
< 1274050061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by the naturality of the pimsner-voiculescu exact sequence" iirc
< 1274050084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I will undersatnd your papers
< 1274050084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE DAY
< 1274050119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't actually find a reference that it _was_ natural, although i did check that it was, and we didn't bother to elaborate on that... :)
< 1274050221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess we left the proof as an exercise for any reader smart enough to notice it was needed)
< 1274050305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that Cybertown "freemail" is poorly named
< 1274050372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mathematicians basically hate each other don't they
< 1274050380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I DO have a proof for this, but I'll let you do it instead..."
< 1274050426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them yes.
< 1274050457 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1274050476 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274050514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our case it wasn't so much that we wanted them to do it as that it was obvious it _should_ be true and would require a lot of work to write down that was really unrelated to the rest of the paper
< 1274050538 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274051289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT IT TO BE TRUE
< 1274052007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has code that segfaults when not run under valgrind
< 1274052123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: consider 0 and a -> b = (not a) or b
< 1274052146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is not in P_1 or D, while -> is not in P_0, M, A or D.
< 1274052155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus together they generate everything.
< 1274052195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274052198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = 0 -> 0
< 1274052202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!x = x -> 0
< 1274052210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 also = 0 -> x
< 1274052222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how do you do and without quantifiers...
< 1274052247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a or b = !a -> b
< 1274052258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain explodes
< 1274052259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and b = !(!a or !b)
< 1274052269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense, but ugh
< 1274052286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _are_ talking boolean logic here
< 1274052372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P
< 1274052379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just so used to the constructive-function meaning of ->
< 1274052386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the ~a \/ b one freaks me out sometimes
< 1274052394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1274052468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot
< 1274052609 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274052651 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274052768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274052875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The relative simplicity of Post's lattice is in stark contrast to the lattice of clones on a three-element (or larger) set, which has the cardinality of the continuum, and a complicated inner structure."
< 1274052939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if even determining whether a set of 3-valued functions generate _everything_ is hard
< 1274053128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1274053173 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053259 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274053477 0 :ballard45!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, Brainfuck-to-assembly compiler...
< 1274053613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly-to-Brainfuck compiler
< 1274053796 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274054104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a p2 spaceship travelling at c make sense??
< 1274054184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-standard analysis is so cool
< 1274054191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it can't unless it has some sort of agar or wire...
< 1274054195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, simple
< 1274054197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two parts
< 1274054204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves right all the time
< 1274054206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's
< 1274054210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a...
< 1274054212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.b..
< 1274054214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..a.
< 1274054216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...b
< 1274054234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's two c-travelling spaceships that change into each other every generation
< 1274054284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/rules/b0236s2345/g1.html
< 1274054332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be cool is different areas of space following different rules
< 1274054361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at B0