< 1274572824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that equation is simple < 1274572832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all are < 1274572844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting thing about -ms: it defaults to using blank spaces to separate paragraphs, not paragraph indentation. < 1274572852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s_n RIGHT = n/2 RIGHT ( a_1 RIGHT a_n RIGHT < 1274572858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, minus the last right < 1274572863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, simple equation < 1274572871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh.. < 1274572872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1274572875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way its cool < 1274572879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice to have on a blackboard < 1274572900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to have a giant interactive blackboard < 1274572920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 10pt or 12pt, which would you rather read a mathematical paper in (disregarding 11pt) < 1274572994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably 12. < 1274573006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait: < 1274573007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use the PP macro to create indented paragraphs, and the LP macro to < 1274573007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : create paragraphs with no initial indent. < 1274573016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah; 10 is better for two-column text, I think. < 1274573091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if one should adjust the initial line indent when changing the font size. < 1274573092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1274573376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, why does -ms have to share a name with Microsoft's acronym. < 1274573381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hard to google for. < 1274573410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrr < 1274573422 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T-Mobile N1 users have Froyo access without rooting < 1274573423 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274573434 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using an AT&T N1, and don't feel like rooting < 1274573437 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274573680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose anyone has used -ms? < 1274573829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, challenge? < 1274573862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1274573867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Challenge? < 1274573876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to take one? :D < 1274573880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a minor little programming challenge < 1274573883 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1274573891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you solve my roff problem, sure. < 1274573903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats roff < 1274573918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typesetting system. The reason UNIX was created. < 1274573930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man groff_ms" in particular is the bit I'm having troubles with. < 1274573931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1274573945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to put a date in my title header, but not on the cover page; the two macros it lists for adding dates to the cover page don't work. < 1274573955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no quite literally the reason it was created < 1274573962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was what they got the grant money for < 1274573976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1274574019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the challenge < 1274574067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec < 1274574367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: < 1274574390 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos that was 300 < 1274574554 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274574586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ehird < 1274574590 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rather < 1274574674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisey hird < 1274574686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274574898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/zuput/example.pdf Some more roff fluff, and the code that generated it: http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg < 1274574903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^ How does the font size in this look? < 1274574997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Huh. Groff actually produces reasonable output. < 1274575002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ok, here goes < 1274575007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep, groff + eqn. < 1274575016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually prefer how it sets the derivative definition to how TeX does it. < 1274575017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no TeX, but that's not bad typesetting. < 1274575028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input was easy to do, too: http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg < 1274575053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well it WAS written by James Clark, Mr. "I was educated at Charterhouse. I read Mathematics and Philosophy at Merton College, Oxford, where I obtained Class I Honours." http://jclark.com/jjc-wg8.jpg < 1274575058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume you have custom-definable pair data types, and custom atomic values < 1274575062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes. < 1274575077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, think I should up the font size? Please say no; I'd have to adjust all the other values accordingly. < 1274575093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice and readable. < 1274575100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10pt, funnily enough. < 1274575114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely like http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg more than the equivalent LaTeX you'd need to generate that. The boilerplate is tedious. < 1274575118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assume you have already one kind of pair type, call it a normal pair, denoted by (x,y) < 1274575124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although plain TeX might be better, it's a bit bare bones. < 1274575132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So we are assuming a language? < 1274575139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the strong feeling that groff takes inspiration from TeX in its output. < 1274575143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom-definable pair data types -- what do you mean? < 1274575151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make up the language as you go, so long as it fits the constraints defined < 1274575153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in you can specify N types < 1274575156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, it seems to be using the same line-breaking algorithm) < 1274575164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, its output is almost identical to traditional troff. < 1274575176 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom-definable, like haskell's compound data types, but pairs only, restricted to two values exactly < 1274575189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of them as tagged cons pairs, if you want < 1274575197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Two files for your consideration: http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/trofftut/trofftut.ps http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps < 1274575208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Okay, so, axioms: < 1274575215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it's more that only real computer scientists can do computer typesetting well, then? < 1274575246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type) s.t. for all (x:A, y:B), (x,y):C. < 1274575259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom atomic values -- like Lisp symbols? < 1274575265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty much. < 1274575266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1274575270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: or numbers? < 1274575273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any sort of atom? < 1274575280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically any predefined infinite type, right? < 1274575281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like haskell's atomic values. data Blip = Bop | Dorp < 1274575293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1274575294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also dont care about the types in the pairs. they dont have to be typed, honestly. < 1274575302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pairs themselves are typed tho < 1274575304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axiom, then, is that "we have type definition". < 1274575306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and assume you have already one kind of pair type, call it a normal pair, denoted by (x,y) < 1274575307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can pattern match < 1274575308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polymorphic? < 1274575317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want < 1274575320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1274575324 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever works for the task < 1274575328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is there any other type of pair other than the normal pair (x,y)? < 1274575338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Flip x y < 1274575343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq: Y'know, I'm doing some FAIRLY major restructuring of Op. 13 < 1274575345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not data Blop x y < 1274575345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST FOR YOU < 1274575352 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if x and y are integers < 1274575364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I imagine TeX handles complex things a bit better than it, but honestly, troff's output is quite nice. It does things right. < 1274575377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pairs, right? ones a Flip the others a Blop, but they're pairs. they're just different "kinds" of pairs < 1274575431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah; I can see myself using this for little notes. < 1274575433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awesome. < 1274575433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So: < 1274575437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type, C*: A,B => C) s.t. for all (a:A, b:B, c:A, d:B), (C*(a,b) = C*(c,d)) <=> (a = c /\ b = d). < 1274575449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what that means :P < 1274575464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can then define normal pair ourselves, so. < 1274575474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, a normal pair is just, say < 1274575479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Pair x y < 1274575502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1274575504 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the challenge is this < 1274575509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that you have that stuff < 1274575513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type, C*: A,B => C) s.t. for all (a:A, b:B, c:A, d:B), (C*(a,b) = C*(c,d)) <=> (a = c /\ b = d). < 1274575513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N:nat) => (A:Type, A*: nat (< N) => A). < 1274575531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter lets us have "type 3" along with the values 3*(0), 3*(1), 3*(2). < 1274575536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Okay. Go ahead. < 1274575557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you define a collection of tail recursive operations over pairs (of one type or another as you see fit), that will let you replace an arbitrary item in some complex normal pair < 1274575570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. i want to replace the 3 in (1,((2,3),4)) with a 0 < 1274575580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define something like this: < 1274575598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is just a language-inventing challenge? < 1274575598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapAll x = 0 < 1274575642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapLeft (x,y) = (SwapAll x, y) OR (SwapLeft x, y) OR (SwapRight x, y) < 1274575658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your challenge is too vague for me to do anything. < 1274575664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what I am supposed to be doing. Defining a language? < 1274575664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (x,y) = (x, SwapAll y) OR (x, SwapLeft y) OR (x, SwapRight Y) < 1274575677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the operations < 1274575709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just defined three operations there that, with appropriate choice of the alternatives, will let you swap the 3 for a 0 in (1,((2,3),4)) < 1274575729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, you're going to have to be more specific. < 1274575732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define the operations in what language? < 1274575740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the part that I get "marked" on? < 1274575741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont care < 1274575745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it formal enough to grasp < 1274575748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can use an existing language? < 1274575795 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (1,((2,3),4)) => (1, SwapLeft ((2,3), 4)) => (1, (SwapRight (2,3), 4)) => (1,((2,SwapAll 3), 4)) => (1,((2,0),4)) < 1274575828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still left baffled at < 1274575832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. what exactly SwapRight does; and < 1274575835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2. what I am supposed to do. < 1274575869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (x,y) says "do some swapping in the right (y) element of the pair (x,y), replacing something there with the number 0" < 1274575876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you three ways you can do this < 1274575887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can swap something in the left of y < 1274575892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can swap something in the right of y < 1274575896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can swap the whole of y < 1274575913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it as an alternative in a rewriting system < 1274576009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I see. < 1274576012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it decide which? < 1274576021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Give me one good reason not to write my own typesetting system! < 1274576048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. who cares. it's not a targetting replacement. the choice is free, and whichever choice is made results in whichever replacements < 1274576080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to replace 3, thats the series of choices you'd have to make < 1274576114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can't. < 1274576119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, crucially, that definition is fully recursive < 1274576133 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the swap operations are applying to deeper and deeper parts of the pair < 1274576138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^_^ < 1274576148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This means I get to learn about typography and things! < 1274576154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Huzzah. < 1274576177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, and macros, and syntax, and... < 1274576212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, now the thing is to resist all temptations to reverse-engineer. < 1274576221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1274576223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, now the thing is to resist all temptations to over-engineer. < 1274576232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274576250 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274576469 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274576469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, however, like lout's functional take on stuff. < 1274576486 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274576526 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: reason to not write typesetting system: you could use TeX < 1274576535 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with overengineering, said the creator of PSOX < 1274576714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Where's the fun in that? < 1274576868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G.E.B. was typeset with some system called SMUT before anyone else was doing it. < 1274577063 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok; I must admit that TeX formulas are horrible compared to OOO's :p < 1274577129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible? < 1274577131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like howso? < 1274577139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In typesetting output? If you think so you are insane. < 1274577143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In input format? Ehh, point. < 1274577147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it /is/ very extensible... < 1274577223 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, in input < 1274577237 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOO could be made extensible as well, I think < 1274577247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing? < 1274577250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO.o sucks though. < 1274577253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ideas? :( < 1274577258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: augur: I see. < 1274577258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How does it decide which? < 1274577268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i answered that! < 1274577273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274577281 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274577289 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274577293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i answered that. :| < 1274577302 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing parsing is *not that hard* < 1274577304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not < 1274577308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: of course not. < 1274577317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did! < 1274577346 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont decide. you do whatever you want. the choices you make lead to different replacements. its not a targetted replacement _algorithm_, its just a series of operations < 1274577362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like with a formal grammar < 1274577382 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF you want to produce this or that sentence, then you'd have to make these choices of rule application < 1274577401 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what stages would/will your typesetting system use? < 1274577405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the algorithm is for making that choice, well, thats the parsing problem and thats not the goal here < 1274577416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is the definition of the possible choices < 1274577427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Stages defined howso? < 1274577435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Would you be upset if I said I thought your problem was boring? :( < 1274577453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1274577477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: >_> Sorry. < 1274577484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit tired mind. < 1274577485 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill give you a solution < 1274577488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe tomorrow < 1274577493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1274577512 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: e.g., TeX's stages are input->macros->lines->pages->output < 1274577529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the solution i know of < 1274577575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we let * be the operator for a special "continuation" pair < 1274577582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push x = x*1 < 1274577584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well, input -> obviously < 1274577586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop x*1 = x < 1274577597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then parser which would parse things like {} and . -- but we'd handle defined characters earlier < 1274577602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like < 1274577603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc" < 1274577606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would expand to < 1274577608 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left1 (x,y)*z = x*(y,z) < 1274577609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ldq abc .rdq < 1274577613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pretty quotes < 1274577615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this time < 1274577618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left2 = x*(y,z) = (x,y)*z < 1274577618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, no < 1274577622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd parse it into objects < 1274577627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/then/ it'd do that < 1274577637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands like .foo {abc} would be seen as functions transforming a typesetting-object to another one < 1274577638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right1 (x,y)*z = y*(z,x) < 1274577643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right2 y*(z,x) = (x,y)*z < 1274577645 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a clearer pipeline: input->tokens->conditionals->macro expansion->boxes->lines->pages->output < 1274577646 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End. < 1274577647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ->pages->output < 1274577655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{abc} would basically be a box < 1274577662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically the lout system, I'd differentiate it somehow < 1274577686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ensure that fancy quotes and ligatures are disabled when fixed pitch fonts are being used < 1274577748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2600 doesn't disable ligatures with fixed pitch fonts, and that is a problem < 1274577751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fixed pitch fonts won't be being used, presumably -- if you would use a fixed pitch font, why use a typesetter? < 1274577756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean in e.g. verbatim code snippet sections? < 1274577760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, yes, I agree. < 1274577772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2600 the magazine? Or some other 2600? < 1274577778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean in small sections embedded in the document, such as verbatim code snippet section and stuff like that < 1274577783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean 2600 magazine < 1274577834 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ideal pipeline would be input->program->{libraries}->execute->output < 1274577841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: A goal with my system would be to support easy preprocessors, such that you can have things like mathematics typesetting as separate programs that scan through the text, and look for their commands and then rewrite their contents with more primitive drawing commands. < 1274577872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: issat make sense? < 1274577879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd have something like "mathset foo | refset | tableset | typeset". < 1274577885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes. < 1274577892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sort of. < 1274577902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of that, just add a rule < 1274577912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap x*y => 0*y < 1274577939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now to replace the 3 in (1,((2,3),4)): < 1274578005 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh ... replacing the push rule's 1 with an @ because im na idiot < 1274578019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ikfxw.png < 1274578024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldie but a goodie < 1274578072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,((2,3),4)) ==Push==> (1,((2,3),4))*@ ==Right==> ((2,3),4)*(@,1) ==Left==> (2,3)*(4,(@,1)) ==Right==> 3*((4,(@,1)),2) ==Swap==> 0*((4,(@,1)),2) < 1274578093 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i trust you can figure out how to reverse this now to pull the shit back to get (1,((2,0),4)) < 1274578094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274578185 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1274578244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex mexicom < 1274578296 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my password on normish used to be comexico < 1274578303 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird came up with it, I think < 1274578305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some context, alise: traditional proof systems only allow "shallow inferences" which are essentially just operations at the root of the structure being manipulated < 1274578308 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when e generated my account < 1274578327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i did < 1274578332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want to replace an element deep inside the object being manipulated, you have to figure out some way of bringing that object to the "surface" < 1274578362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a non-destructive way, so you dont loose any information and can recover the original object, modulo the swap < 1274578372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-05-19-beartato-guesswhat.gif < 1274578380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's safe to reveil what my password for Circe's SVN was < 1274578406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyborg surgery! :D < 1274578415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: "Maybe"? < 1274578416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE? < 1274578418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ man. < 1274578430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you should move to comexico and sign letters with < 1274578434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comex, < 1274578438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you write this comic < 1274578440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexico, < 1274578443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like you would write something like this < 1274578446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Com. < 1274578450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no it's nedroid.com < 1274578454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is totally my style. < 1274578456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except better) < 1274578459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're nedroid! < 1274578464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't think so < 1274578466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nedroid is you < 1274578472 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE FUTURE < 1274578509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not; I would never make such a blatant error as to refer to the INTEGER OF PI: http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-05-12-beartato-bignerd.gif < 1274578517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless he was talking about actually getting the computer to calculate... "3" < 1274578532 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctcpgod < 1274578807 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no ##grammarnazis channel < 1274578976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god. < 1274579040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wanted to know whether it was "negative one bean" or "negative one beans" < 1274579062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question. < 1274579091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: If I was giving a figure, I might use the latter, but as a list perhaps "Negative two beans, negative one bean, no beans, one bean, two beans, ...". < 1274579092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1274579099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bean, I think. < 1274579185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "Negative one bean", thinks my Oxford-educated (okay this is becoming a bit of a stretch) friend. < 1274579194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that was preceded with an "I don't know.") < 1274579288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singular "bean" < 1274579297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually looked this up at some point because it's really wonky :P < 1274579316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an English standpoint, it's read as negative (one bean), not (negative one) bean < 1274579379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mind you, "looked it up" = asked my mom the librarian and later saw that "the tuberwebs" agrees :P ) < 1274579385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all moot since you'll all die from the antimatter explosion anyway < 1274579511 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Road to Reality book, "negative one proton" would be "one virtual anti-proton" < 1274579512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1274579543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like "protoff" for anti-protons < 1274579558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1274579580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anti-electrons already has a different name which is "positron", so perhaps anti-protons also < 1274579595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHAT ABOUT ANTI-POSITRONS. < 1274579608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches alise
< 1274579614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "electrons", I think? < 1274579618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey i was going to swat him < 1274579636 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tremulous map downloads take a while. < 1274579648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: So does your FACE. < 1274579702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to download curl? It doesn't work < 1274579797 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274579811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: curl -O http://curl.haxx.se/download/curl-7.20.1.tar.gz < 1274579865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1274579882 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do that too :p < 1274579891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have curl already < 1274579896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways that server seems down < 1274579913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: let me break this to you gently... < 1274579921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have wget < 1274579929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Gregor knew that < 1274579940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps this mirror will work < 1274579948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think so too, probably it is joke? < 1274579971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most probably, it is joke. < 1274579997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1274580006 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: source or binary? < 1274580027 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274580034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32 binary < 1274580093 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use this: http://www.gknw.net/mirror/curl/win32/curl-7.20.1-devel-mingw32.zip < 1274580159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good < 1274580166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have curl and wget < 1274580244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I think I just need to add it to the PATH < 1274580454 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20min ddownload for a freaking map < 1274580558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works < 1274580564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dfZA < 1274580937 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-53-157.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274580945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? < 1274580964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A similar way could be written for UNIX systems too < 1274581000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a decent shell script. < 1274581041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai < 1274581104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here familiar with lout? < 1274581265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't familiar with lout < 1274581299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're a lout < 1274581332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but unrelatedly, the typesetting system ... < 1274581355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different Linux distribution might use different code-names schemes for their versions, but I have my own scheme if I make Linux distribution (probably I will start when I get another computer to test it with, which might be in a few months since that is when Free Geek will provide one): < 1274581408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First version can be called "Initial", second version "Illimitable Illithid", fourth version "Interrupt Vector", sixth version "Vancouver Island", do you think this is good scheme? Do you like this? < 1274581514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want to include any non-free < 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a good naming scheme < 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1274581543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1274581543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1274581544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have the ISO for Linux From Scratch, but I didn't record a DVD with it yet < 1274581544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1274581544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1274581546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1274581548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1274581550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274581552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_64 < 1274581554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274581566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Roman numeral backronyms, eh? < 1274581584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I (or anyone else) would ever make a Linux distribution as many versions as high as G_64?? < 1274581587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes < 1274581595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1274581608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian uses Toy Story, and Ubuntu uses two word both start with one same letter < 1274581620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if Slackware decides to do another version skip, it might skip straight to G_64. < 1274581658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but I don't think so, because such numbers are probably too large to use in a computer program in the version number field < 1274581661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ubuntu uses [Adjective] [Animal] alliteratively < 1274581678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that's what I meant < 1274581684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOLIC version = SymbolicIndex(GrahamsNumber, SymbolicNumber(64)); < 1274581691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOLIC version = SymbolicIndex(GrahamsNumbers, SymbolicNumber(64)); < 1274582252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program called "Field Manipulator" do you think this is OK? http://sprunge.us/GWRY < 1274582290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what it does but there you go < 1274582321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does field manipulator, that is what it does! < 1274582327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Article Adverb Adjective Animals < 1274582361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wut/ < 1274582413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should write your own typesetting system. < 1274582414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it'd be awesome. < 1274582479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the first field of a file and separated by colons, you do: fm -t58 Tmx < 1274582492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you do it. < 1274582528 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want to add zero at the start of each line, you do: fm m "0" < 1274582535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Now you know. < 1274582559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1274582691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I probably don't write a typesetting system, although I have done the stuff that is used before a typesetting systems < 1274582870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just make it output postscript >_> < 1274583329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make what output postscript? < 1274583368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A typesetting system. < 1274583371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's "easy" < 1274583470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan to write a typesetting system < 1274583483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might do so if I change my mind < 1274583595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to port ADVENT to something. < 1274583614 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274584353 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1274584874 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274586627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp4.ogg . Op. 13 will probably be in two movements maybe perhaps. < 1274586729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently cannot has HTTP ATM. < 1274586742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grant you an opinion next time I can has bandwidth. < 1274586744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlz < 1274586770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, think "the non-stormy parts of WIPP3, rearranged to flow hopefully well together" :P < 1274586777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1274586803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm defining the parts with the repeating arpeggio in the right hand as "stormy" btw :P < 1274586819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1274586823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ABOVE RECORDED WHILE NUDE. < 1274586826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just FYI. < 1274586834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274586883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:| < 1274586886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID YOU SAY THAT. < 1274586900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt it was important information :P < 1274587011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep time nao. < 1274587012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1274587015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274587064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My God he's sleeping on a Saturday night. < 1274587079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sunday morning. < 1274587082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Still*. < 1274587105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ON THE SABBATH < 1274587258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274587717 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274587857 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274587933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port ADVENT into TAVSYS < 1274587953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I read that as "Port ADVENT into TARDIS". < 1274587978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is TARDIS? < 1274587999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You're kidding. < 1274588000 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1274588012 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274588018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHO WAS PHONE (BOOTH) < 1274588037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which phone booth did you mean? The phone booth or the phone booth? < 1274588043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TARDIS < 1274588048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You. Watch Doctor Who. Now. < 1274588056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that tape < 1274588059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't worry about seeing the whole thing, unless you have a couple years to spare) < 1274588085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps I do have that tape, but I don't think I have that tape < 1274588122 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps port ADVEN into TAVSYS and also port ADVENT into TARDIS < 1274588128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a TV series. The most popular one in Britain, last I check. < 1274588134 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274588134 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274588135 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274588140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that much already < 1274588157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't live in Britain < 1274588160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TARDIS is one of the most recognisable features of it. < 1274588173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also much-beloved by many American sci-fi fans. < 1274588180 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1274588282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still don't have it < 1274588291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obtain it. < 1274588295 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has heard of Dr. Who, but never saw it
< 1274588296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And watch it. < 1274588300 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I watch? < 1274588305 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And where do I start? < 1274588323 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You need to purchase the tape, of course! < 1274588332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you need more than one tape < 1274588334 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not purchasing anything < 1274588337 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274588338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to start is to start with Series 1 of the recent reboot. < 1274588346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of an easy place to obtain it. < 1274588357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm sure BitTorrent has a nearly-comprehensive collection. < 1274588367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you live in Britain perhaps you can see < 1274588374 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know because I don't have at Britain < 1274588378 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1274588390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought. < 1274588391 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't feel like torrenting illegal stuff
< 1274588393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 100G for the whole thing. < 1274588417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all episodes have had official releases. < 1274588434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few of the early episodes have no known copies, sadly. < 1274588471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New episodes can be found on BBCA on Sunday, IIRC. < 1274588485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly dr who is a secret alien plot to make humans invent time travel. < 1274588497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can find those original episodes. < 1274588532 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't say I wouldn't be willing to watch illegal, just that I don't want to torrent illegally < 1274588632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented Spider Tarot < 1274588654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spider, rider, what's the difference < 1274588656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majors can wrap (the fool is zero) (both for movement and for removal), but minors do not wrap. < 1274588677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majors can count as any suit for movement (but not for removal). < 1274588710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have rods and majors mixed together you can move them all at once, but if you have rods and cups together, or rods and cups ad majors together, you cannot move them all together. < 1274588717 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. That's all. < 1274588759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good enough? < 1274588920 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274589778 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1274589793 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just heard music that I thought could only be heard in Second Life < 1274589831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any music can go anywhere, I suppose < 1274589866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the music doesn't come from second life, its waveform will degrade midair. < 1274589867 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find me Foxyflwr CUre's "Anyway" on the web, please < 1274589881 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt you'll find it < 1274589893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Arthur Nix" < 1274589909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, mistaken about the latter < 1274589920 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.last.fm/music/Jupiter+Sunrise/_/Arthur+Nix < 1274589939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nix on the arthur < 1274589941 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the tune I heard might be somewhere on the web < 1274589999 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we had the power to trap anything that could hurt a human being inside a jar, send it far from Earth, and watch it explode in the Sun, to the cheers of everyone < 1274590003 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But alas that can't be done < 1274590032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human being can hurt human being < 1274590038 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for a dull and uninteresting life? < 1274590040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely that isn't the good idea anyways < 1274590052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons < 1274590091 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is surprised no one went for "human beings inside jars?" or something
< 1274590115 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s12.last.fm/preview/110865117/154/0020389183/11/741308676.mp3 < 1274590137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the mad scientists in girl genius had that < 1274590169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr. beetle < 1274590303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274590979 0 :weinjared!~weinjared@c-68-84-184-88.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274591262 0 :weinjared!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274591735 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274592909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp4.ogg . Op. 13 will probably be in two movements maybe perhaps. < 1274592951 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not right now :P < 1274592958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well foo to you too! < 1274592993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wgetting now. < 1274593011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will listen after this episode of Darker Than Black: 黒の契約者 < 1274593026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, the *actual title of the series* is in two different languages) < 1274593029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooooh < 1274593033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darker than Black < 1274593036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty darn dark. < 1274593051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fairly dark series, in all honesty. < 1274593199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, alt-tab really ought to change tabs instead of windows. < 1274593206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, clearly what you want is an alternate tab. < 1274593227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1274593466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens
< 1274593764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it feels like it needs a second movement. < 1274593808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In some Windows programs CTRL+TAB changes tabs instead of windows < 1274593826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Yes it does. I haven't written it yet :P < 1274593857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1274593897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not unique to Windows < 1274594018 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You might be correct, of course. But I don't know much about others. I do know ALT+TAB is same in Ubuntu because that is what is used at Free Geek, and I sometimes volunteer there < 1274594042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is by default... but like almost all things Linux, it is configurable < 1274594127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably the same so that if you used Windows, you would be able to do some things in same way. ALT+F4 is also same way in Ubuntu. < 1274594141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that doesn't work the same however, is double-clicking the control box does not do the same way as Windows < 1274594172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But if I use Linux on my own computer, it would be my own distribution anyways and would be different) < 1274594187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you sure you aren't alise? < 1274594205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Mac OS Xasperating has ⌘-tab switch between PROGRAMS, and ⌘-backtick switch between windows WITHIN a program, which is godawful < 1274594206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think so! < 1274594209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274594222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use ctrl-tab to switch between virtual desktops, and ctrl-pg{up,down} to switch tabs. < 1274594240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For sure I am not someone else other than who I am < 1274594260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 1 = 1 < 1274594266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes < 1274594291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you think I am alise for some reason? < 1274594313 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: only because you defined it that way < 1274594355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem* < 1274594379 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274594381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "it would be my own distribution anyways" < 1274594388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: zzo38 did the write-all-his-software-himself thing first, you know. alise just seems to have started copying him... < 1274594395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1274594401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I fail then < 1274594407 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: for example, I think Double x = 1.0 is not equal to Double y = 1.0 < 1274594417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least thinking a lot about it < 1274594429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what are you talking about? < 1274594432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: double x = the literal value 1.0 is equal to double y = the literal value 1.0 < 1274594454 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but with autoboxing you get different refernces < 1274594474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What sort of shitty system are you using that's boxing your numbers and not overloading ==? < 1274594481 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java :p < 1274594486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff. < 1274594486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java < 1274594487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate* < 1274594527 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you agree 1 = 1 only in some cases < 1274594547 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other example: 1 meter != 1 second < 1274594560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In standard mathematics 1 = 1 is always, if using the standard definitions of the numbers and equals < 1274594594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but mathematics is the king of overloading notation < 1274594596 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right - if you define it that way < 1274594617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it is, but only when it is the way to do so < 1274594620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they want to fuck with you. < 1274594686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although normally you'd try to avoid using notation that breaks something as fundamental as x = x < 1274594690 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees bad images in his head
< 1274594820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i'd suggest stopping whatever you're doing, then < 1274594835 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not thinking is hard :p < 1274594848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes it is. < 1274594852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the bad bad, or good bad? < 1274594856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, bad as in "naughty"? < 1274594860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's all good times. < 1274594881 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bad, I guess < 1274594919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: let me guess, pikhq's comment made you apply rule 34 to the number 34. < 1274594928 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1274594937 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1274594954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgo0CDL6bd0 < 1274594973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is rule 34 < 1274594990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1274594991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1274594996 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it exists, there is porn of it. < 1274595003 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what IRC porn looks like
< 1274595012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See #asciipr0n < 1274595038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, there is porn of porn. < 1274595049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also porn of rule 34. < 1274595052 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said IRC porn. As in porn involving the protocol itself somehow, and not just porn transmitted via the protocol. Porn OF the protocol < 1274595060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't watch pornography < 1274595074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet more evidence that you're not human :P < 1274595075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, NICK me baby < 1274595092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ooooh, that's hot. < 1274595093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you mean me? < 1274595101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't stop the \x01ACTION < 1274595120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Very well-known that you aren't human. < 1274595142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But rather a species which is equally capable of communicating in English on IRC. < 1274595172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, I am human. (My D&D character isn't (neither is the paper in the printer), but that's irrelevant.) < 1274595182 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conversation I had a while ago: "My temporary apartment has a 30" TV with DVI, so I figured out how to use it as a monitor for my computer!" "Please tell me the first thing you did was watch porn on it." "I would deny it, but your clairvoyance is hilarious." < 1274595220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee using " to mean "inches" in the middle of a quote is really confusing :P < 1274595266 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' looks just like "? < 1274595288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you supposed to use ''? < 1274595317 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so; it's "double prime" < 1274595340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "3 double prime" really the same as "3 inches" ... < 1274595393 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 inches, 3 seconds... I think that's it < 1274595400 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to Wikipedia) < 1274595407 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, if ASCII didn't have " as a single character, what would C-like languages look like? < 1274595409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain axplote* < 1274595419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Quite similar I imagine. < 1274595442 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would strings and characters be quoted? < 1274595456 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just use single quotes for all of them :p < 1274595463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably strings would be in '' and characters would have some special notation, maybe $c < 1274595489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they'd use trigraphs *shudder* < 1274595494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they would have quoted characters if not for an abundance of available quotish characters. < 1274595533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: double prime means second division, more or less. (minuta secunda) < 1274595770 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I need something to do over the summer < 1274595775 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas? < 1274595781 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, job < 1274595782 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classes < 1274595790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Develop a Scottish accent. < 1274595791 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volunteer work < 1274595803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn a silly walk. < 1274595840 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :job - don't need one < 1274595857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classes - going to a camp (that only lasts 6 weeks) < 1274595874 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accent - no idea of how to get one :p < 1274595893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't need one" is irrelevant. It gives you something to do < 1274595899 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I'm job hunting < 1274595900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Develop", not "acquire" :P < 1274595931 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think I can get a job < 1274595997 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles to figure out what oerjan means
< 1274596014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Monty Python. < 1274596428 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I already have some funny walks < 1274596438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly < 1274596455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well get a stipend to develop them, then < 1274596470 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly from http://xkcd.com/245/ and variants < 1274596657 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is it with everyone's obsession with money? < 1274596659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the factorial of the factorial of one half? < 1274596679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look up gamma function < 1274596713 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION asks wolfram|alpha
< 1274596726 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9571218... < 1274596744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With money you can buy happiness, no matter what all those la-dee-da imbeciles may think to the contrary. < 1274596755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know gamma function I saw in Wikipedia < 1274596768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I found the article for "Factorial" < 1274596776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't tell me the answer < 1274596780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls a relevant mafalda cartoon
< 1274596793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am unsure how to calculate that equation < 1274596810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know how to easily calculate it, it requires integration or something... < 1274596834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't afaik built into haskell, which is my default calculator these days < 1274596835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is integration and that is why I don't know how to calcualte it < 1274596852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: numerically, i presume < 1274596886 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ask wolfram|alpha, like I said: 0.9571218476267359902553835494511485301623742526696566054995... < 1274596889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there may be a faster algorithm than going via the integral for all i know < 1274596984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the exact value (according to symbols such as square root, pi, e, etc)? < 1274597004 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it's not an elementary function AFAIK < 1274597033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it says it is sqrt(pi)/2 for (0.5)! on Wikipedia < 1274597084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there _might_ be an exact formula for (0.5)!, but that only generalizes to numbers of the form n + 1/2 < 1274597120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sqrt(pi)/2 itself is transcendental, so taking the factorial of _that_ is unlikely to be nice < 1274597162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried using nInt command on TI-92, but it is slow. It does give a answer which is close to the correct one, but only in approximate form (and even the decimal places it does give is slightly wrong) < 1274597166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even for integers) < 1274597214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there almost certainly isn't a much simpler general formula than the usual integral, or else it would have been listed < 1274597260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1274597320 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274597456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, time for a delicious pastrami reuben! < 1274597477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit that sentence is making me hungry. < 1274597549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read Road to Reality, it is clear how to do things like e^(d/dx) and how to put a matrix in the exponent, and so on < 1274597591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On dark rye bread, hot < 1274597645 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since I've had a reuben... sauerkraut + meat + bread, right? < 1274597658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically. < 1274597673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus Russian/thousand island dressing and swiss cheese (but not for me) < 1274597696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not just any meat and bread. < 1274597727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meat has to be cured beef, e.g. pastrami or corned beef. < 1274597731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bread has to be rye. < 1274597746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No other combination is a true reuben :) < 1274597793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true. < 1274597815 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that describing food makes me want to eat it? :p < 1274597835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS IT THAT EATING THIS DELICIOUS REUBEN MAKES ME WANT TO EAT IT?!?!?! < 1274597879 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, like... you read a menu, you want to order something < 1274597939 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass a restaurant, your stomach growls < 1274597942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I am eating this Reuben with a Sangria (sin alcohol), which is a surprisingly good combination. < 1274598080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1274598387 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274598563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: reset < 1274598905 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION randomlu looks up some ip addresses
< 1274599203 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to the crickets chirp
< 1274599902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Do you like(etc) Spider Tarot? < 1274600571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274600588 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274601599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1274601600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1274601918 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1274602659 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274602742 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274602765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: listening < 1274602933 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the stuff around 1:55 needs some reworking < 1274603006 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest like it. the first thing i would do is ditch the secondary high notes that come in at like 2:00 with the 6 note downward sequence < 1274603043 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds weird.. < 1274603077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, change the high notes to something lower, i think, or something much higher. it sounds a bit honky tonky ish right now < 1274603110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, just fuck around with that 6 note downward sequences really < 1274603117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in that area is weird < 1274603201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this song has quite an overtone of eh... how should i put it < 1274603205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity? < 1274603211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres lots of tonal discord < 1274603473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that much is half the point. < 1274603539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i like that mood. but i dont think it's as obvious as it should be, and i dont think the points i mentioned aid it < 1274603545 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, i think they detract from it < 1274604020 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kisses his anti-virus
< 1274604121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274605081 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274606822 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274607598 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274609025 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274609042 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274609865 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274610212 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274611084 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274612076 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274612645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274613119 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274613376 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1274615439 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1274615446 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274615627 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274616108 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274617658 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown < 1274617995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274618449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made implement Spider Tarot on PySol: http://sprunge.us/eKaJ < 1274618514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have PySol you can load this file < 1274618547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2004 any work on PySol has stopped, and PySol is officially discontinued." < 1274618574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean http://pysolfc.sourceforge.net/? < 1274618575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is PySol FanClub < 1274618581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what I mean < 1274618684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hot! Hoooly shit I cannot stand this weather < 1274618686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring back the rain < 1274618693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274618698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's 23 degrees, bullshit, it's 25 < 1274618711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: please tell me it's hot where you are too < 1274618717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'll be uncontrollably jealous < 1274618734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1274618748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Britain... you're MEANT to expect cold here < 1274618756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it defy my expectations?! Why? < 1274618761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is dark where I am < 1274618782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know why? < 1274618805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably that evil weather. < 1274618846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the weather will be evil? < 1274618907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can anthropomorphise it if I want, can't I? < 1274618927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can if you want to < 1274618932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I shall < 1274618962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should remember what someone said (about something else): "Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it." < 1274619020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1274619030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the weather is a computer :P < 1274619048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274619048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you are right. The quote is about something else like it says < 1274619059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is like a joke < 1274619126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't *think* the weather is a computer. < 1274619142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they want you to think. < 1274619215 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274619250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not like a joke, it is a joke. < 1274619254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's only a pseudo-joke :P < 1274619267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think the weather is a computer :P <-- also a ojke < 1274619268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke < 1274619378 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, Martin Gardner died. < 1274619392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1274619396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! That's so sad. < 1274619418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274619421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1274619433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a shame. < 1274619573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was 90something, though. < 1274619584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, true. < 1274619590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hasn't really done anything for decades, has he? < 1274619683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than write some book, I think. < 1274619684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://twitter.com/thewub/status/14549831262 < 1274619687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not recently < 1274619723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha < 1274619731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Conway dies: < 1274619751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, here's the deal. Name a game. We'll play. You win, you go to heaven. You lose, hell." < 1274619756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Game of Life." < 1274619764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Death looks it up] < 1274619771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HOW THE FUCK DO YOU WIN THIS THING???" < 1274619778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not even a game!" < 1274619789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't lose either < 1274619789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It has game in the name! How could it be more game-y?" < 1274619795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You never said it had to be a 2-player game." < 1274619802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By letting you actually play it! < 1274619809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 0-player game. < 1274619822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm totally going for CoreWars.) < 1274619856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is: Can you just invent a game on the spot? What are the requirements for a game? < 1274619923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should at least be well-defined victory conditions. < 1274619942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/5lFTN.jpg awwwwwwwwwwwww <3 nintendo. < 1274619956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Victory conditions: "Whoever isn't Death wins." < 1274619956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once asked: If you have to play game against Death to survive, which one: Chess, Poker, Mahjong? < 1274619979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Poker. I'm shitty at the other two games, so my best chance is to rely on luck. < 1274620001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could challenge him to a game of my choice, I think it'd be nomic. < 1274620010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be very interesting. < 1274620011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is another victory conditions: "Play any card. After one turn, the game is over. If you haven't played all the cards yet, the game is a draw and you have to start over again." < 1274620035 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274620099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You play with a deck of 52 cards (or 40 if you are Italian or Spanish), and after one card is played, that is one turn) < 1274620113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME RULES: The game must be played by a human, on Earth, in physical form, with a young body and a sharp mind, and Death, in his realm. The game ends whenever the player who is not Death writes a letter to Death at "Death / Hades" and pleads for him to make the game end; Death then wins. Death must not otherwise interact with the other player. < 1274620276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lair.fifthhorseman.net/~dkg/fonts/dkg-handwriting/jabberwocky.pdf ;; this is the first decent handwriting font i've seen. < 1274620375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you not need to handwrite? < 1274620425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to lunch. < 1274620674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why do I not need to handwrite what? < 1274620723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, /me is trying a new organisational system for ~/ since the old one didn't work. < 1274621075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/downloads -- temporary downloads that I'm not going to futz with (things like little C programs I download do /not/ go here); should be emptied regularly < 1274621101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/research/YYYY-MM/ -- all sorts of crap I get from other people; source trees I want to compile, data files I want to play with, little C programs, etc. < 1274621119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/work/YYYY-MM/[project/] -- stuff i make. < 1274621131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old system was just ~/Downloads and ~/code basically. < 1274621194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone claimed that "grammer" was American English, while "grammar" was British English. < 1274621208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1274621257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/c750w/11_year_old_girl_writes_to_nintendo_as_part_of_a/c0qkq8q?context=1 < 1274621275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the new Ubuntu release < 1274621309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was evil. < 1274621385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say that? < 1274621394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1274621395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably did something baaaaaaaaad. But it's not doing anything baaaaaaaaad right now. < 1274621399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh. < 1274621403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well you're wrong then. < 1274621408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean that other person < 1274621411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said it was evil < 1274621416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, they are wrong. They just have an extreme aversion to purple clearly < 1274621552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it did wrong (I had experience with it at Free Geek): The default is nc -q 0 < 1274621601 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274621727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's wrong with -q 0? < 1274621737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -q after EOF on stdin, wait the specified number of seconds and then < 1274621738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quit. If seconds is negative, wait forever. < 1274621738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1274621742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what's wrong with that? < 1274621746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no EOF in network protocols < 1274621748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't have any other use < 1274621775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be the default -q -1 < 1274621792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few people has filed this as a bug report < 1274621802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is easy to fix any script that uses it < 1274621823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why -q 1? < 1274621831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chrome.google.com/extensions/img/mikdfeaeaecoffpjoodiihgejnbfigln/1274222031.11/screenshot_big/1001?hl=en-us ;; Huh, you can make Chrome look native on Linux now < 1274621849 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274621859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always been possible. < 1274621878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least since 9.10. < 1274621937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because -q -1 is negative it wait forever, which is the function in olderversions as well as in other distributions < 1274621969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But WHY should it be like that? < 1274621973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but it looked ugly :) < 1274622013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this one is a proper theme and evrything. < 1274622015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything < 1274622061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Chromium doesn't haev the window border. < 1274622107 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274622114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I need Chrome instead. < 1274622168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think default should be wait forever because sometimes the protocol is not finished yet! < 1274622186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah, you mean like if ^D is used in the protocol? < 1274622202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you should use ^D in the protocol for the same reason you shouldn't use ^C: it's taken for metapurposes! < 1274622237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's one purpose. But the other purpose is things like: echo aboutgophserv | nc zzo38computer.cjb.net 70 < 1274622277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Good point. Okay, then, I agree with you. < 1274622334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there, now the window shadow is back. < 1274622379 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1274622384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was it gone? < 1274622413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, now I have znc up and running on my desktop < 1274622414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1274622463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Using the non-native title bar. < 1274622560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/LWc8g.png ;; here's what it looks like now < 1274622702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274622757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh Chrome is a nice browser; think I'll use it. < 1274622838 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274622898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ws < 1274622902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you whitespace? < 1274623353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The following will find the recursive form definition of the fibonacci function from its closed-form solution. < 1274623354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init075 -- The problem is tough, so you should be prepared to resort whatever measure you can take! < 1274623354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printAny (�f -> all (�n -> (f :: Int->Int) n == let phi = (1 + sqrt 5)/2 in round ((phi^n - (1-phi)^n) / sqrt 5) ) [0..9]) < 1274623357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MagicHaskeller: http://nautilus.cs.miyazaki-u.ac.jp/~skata/MagicHaskeller.html < 1274623361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fucking writes progams for you! < 1274623374 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274623375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT TURNS THE BINET FORMULA INTO THE RECURSIVE FIBONACCI DEFINITION. < 1274623376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1274623827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274623853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274624543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't et it to compile :( < 1274624867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vpri.org/pov/ < 1274624874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! Out of stock! < 1274624877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want! Fucking want now! < 1274624887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadness... overwhelming... < 1274624896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274624947 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. Martin Gardner :-( < 1274624953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: yeah < 1274624955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad. < 1274625264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p yiff-server - Y Sound Server < 1274625280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup... just your average, every day yiff server. < 1274625799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Child pornography is great," the speaker at the podium declared enthusiastically. "It is great because politicians understand child pornography. By playing that card, we can get them to act, and start blocking sites. And once they have done that, we can get them to start blocking file sharing sites".]] < 1274626862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I got quoted twice in one Haskell Weekly News in 2009. < 1274626863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 2009: The Year of the Combinatorial Explosion of Haskell Web Frameworks. Also, the Linux Desktop. < 1274626864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [on the previous quote] Someone re-remember that quote when lambdabot's back so I don't have to and thereby look egotistical, thanks < 1274626866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ego++ < 1274627814 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274627852 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1274627925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274628217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives DDG a go.
< 1274628288 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274628667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invents yet another wiki format because he can.
< 1274628669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has the powah < 1274629065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vejn. < 1274629176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Njev? < 1274629287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ya what now :| < 1274629366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something or othere. < 1274629376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, your mother. < 1274629529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is 9:45. Why am I up this early? < 1274629533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to bed at 3. < 1274629560 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1274629579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficient time dilation. try running faster. < 1274629978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: who knows. < 1274630031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Eek, a black hole! < 1274630817 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1274631001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why nobody's invented this particular blend of formatting language before. < 1274631353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274632399 0 :Portponky!~no@cpc2-sgyl23-0-0-cust656.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274632817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274632874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274632899 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1274632972 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274633768 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274634060 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274634184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised I ran out of programming languages to use < 1274634184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1274634263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote insufficient time dilation. try running faster. < 1274634267 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :162| insufficient time dilation. try running faster. < 1274634381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4? < 1274634459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Assembly? < 1274634620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1274634672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, for what? < 1274634833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything. < 1274634838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything. < 1274634913 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274634958 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ATS? < 1274634968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL? < 1274634977 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/APL/J/ < 1274634990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, ATS! < 1274634992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That language is fun. < 1274634992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+? (Which is GPLed) < 1274634999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Hey now, nothing wrong with APL -- I do like J though < 1274635019 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J *is* APL :p < 1274635023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it cost MONEY. < 1274635101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1274635103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not open source. < 1274635109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonderful language, though. < 1274635123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Well, it's the Unofficial Sequel. < 1274635139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From some of the members of the production team who brought you "APL"... < 1274635166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe I've stopped using Google. < 1274635188 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274635196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Wait, no, J was the same guy as APL. < 1274635207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mixed up J and K's histories there, I think. Except I knew K was unofficial. < 1274635213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I mixed up J and A+ or something. < 1274635267 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274635270 0 :MigoMipo__!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274635431 0 :MigoMipo__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1274635462 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274635624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, using Parsec for something that's meant to accept any and all input is not wise. < 1274635628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not like forgivingness. < 1274635716 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274635835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just does error messages. < 1274635890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even trying to parse something insanely difficult. < 1274635896 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1274635949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag := '{' name [spaces node+] '}'; name := !(spaces | '{' | '}') text := anything; node := tag | text < 1274635961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a tag doesn't match -- e.g. {} -- then it falls through to the everything-accepting text. < 1274635962 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274635970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Challenge: Parse this without the code looking like an ugly piece of shit. < 1274635998 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274636146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Think I should just write a custom parser? < 1274636326 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using haskell for anything is not wise < 1274636370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Bullshit. < 1274636382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Actually I've tried the same thing in other languages and so far the code is more verbose. < 1274636383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah; that's not exactly playing to Parsec's strengths there. < 1274636395 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use C. < 1274636396 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)))))) < 1274636402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: No. :)^n < 1274636589 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or use SML. :D < 1274636604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, this parser is a bitch to write by hand because of all the little fiddly fallthroughs. < 1274636605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1274636610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: "Meh". < 1274636618 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey you should love SML < 1274636621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do! < 1274636628 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good! :))) < 1274636629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think it's particularly suited to this problem any more than Haskell. < 1274636638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who likes SML but not Haskell is a bit silly. Maybe you dislike the Haskell hype, community or libraries... but the actual language is fairly benign. < 1274636643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that most Haskellers don't know what they're doing. < 1274636651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a flawed language. < 1274636654 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is mostly true. < 1274636681 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep deep down a lot of Haskell I don't have a problem with, strictly as a language. Of course it has its quirks and flaws but so does every language. < 1274636695 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except the one I'm designing) < 1274636703 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course) < 1274636723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, don't be silly. My languages are the flawless ones. < 1274636736 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your languages aren't even computable!! < 1274636749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MAY BE TRUE :P < 1274636753 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274636754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Hey now some of them are < 1274636756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOME of them! < 1274637030 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274637050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty sure I could do this better; this whole snippet /just/ parses a tag name: http://pastie.org/973478.txt?key=qybxeu7xoift2bcwzlqhya :P < 1274637088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the tag parser itself is going to have to handle finding 3 metric fucktons of text and then realising it's unbalanced and so shooting it off as text < 1274637102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "{foo abc" should parse as the tag {foo abc} instead of the text "{foo abc". < 1274637120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you could have ridiculous things like the whole thing being snarfed up into a table like that. < 1274637147 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 metric fucktons < 1274637159 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274637177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's slightly less than 3 regular fucktons. < 1274637689 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1274637827 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1274637907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd, you really wouldn't think...parsing...would be so hard. < 1274638107 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274638129 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274638286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Library idea: You feed it a parser description, and it outputs a parser that "patches things up" so that it accepts any input at all. < 1274638292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With customisable parameters for how it should handle certain invalid texts. < 1274638462 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and the rest like it. the first thing i would do is ditch the secondary high notes that come in at like 2:00 with the 6 note downward sequence // hahah, well this is definitely not happening :P < 1274638958 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274639261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lmddgtfy.com/?q=printf < 1274640811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toasted marshmallows are the nicest thing ever. < 1274640826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: do you just use your reddit account for promoting the iphone over android :P < 1274640932 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you know that on OS X, both Flash and the HTML5 player are glacial for 720p, but QuickTime plays it fine; but hopefully the new API for H.264 decoding will be supported soon by one of them, unless Google decides to forcibly serve WebM? < 1274640939 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering :( < 1274640962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that... your sentence doesn't even parse < 1274640991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: Could you sound any more like a valley girl? < 1274641014 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, all I want is to watch a damn video < 1274641047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And h264 is terrible for that while software patents exist. < 1274641060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, while software patents exist *it is effectively illegal to program*. < 1274641078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I suggest using Linux -- then you're not surprised by breakage. < 1274641125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274641160 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well < 1274641166 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Linux has that nvidia H264 acceleration thingy < 1274641167 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vdpau < 1274641180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but we generally don't install things, the smart of us anyway < 1274641190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is okay, we can deal with this, we don't feel like we need to break things right now... < 1274641197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just fine, we don't need to watch online videos anyway. < 1274641198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is used illegally most of the time. < 1274641198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274641236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Flash has the only legal h264 decoder for Linux. < 1274641252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Legal as far as we know. < 1274641256 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, isn't H.264 officially free for web video? < 1274641263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of. < 1274641271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and creating it by anyone without a license will become illegal Real Soon Now < 1274641274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, have fun with that. < 1274641277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not currently have to pay a license fee for streaming. < 1274641285 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's for at least 5 years < 1274641299 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274641302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decoding requires a license. Encoding for *most* purposes requires a license. < 1274641314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically anything but home video creation) < 1274641324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home video creation will become illegal without a license soon iirc < 1274641327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something or other expires. < 1274641341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They extended the *promise not to sue*. < 1274641342 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On February 2, 2010 MPEG LA announced that H.264-encoded Internet Video that is free to end users would continue to be exempt from royalty fees until at least December 31, 2015.[11] However, other fees remain in place. The license terms are updated in 5-year blocks.[12]" < 1274641350 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1274641352 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter! < 1274641371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: All of this only applies to the patents in the MPEG LA patent pool. < 1274641379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is always possible for there to be a patent outside of it. < 1274641387 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, then you can sue the world < 1274641392 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because by 2015 (really, by 2011 most likely) there will be more widespread support for VP8, hopefully < 1274641401 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the x264 guy says VP8 sucks < 1274641426 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then apple will support it in another 10 years < 1274641427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP8 almost certainly violates patents. There do not exist nontrivial programs that don't, at this rate. < 1274641434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's fucking patents on linked lists. < 1274641439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linked. Lists. < 1274641469 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists that have multiple links in order to be traversed in multiple ways < 1274641478 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that patent is probably invalid and wouldn't stand up in court < 1274641519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big deal. US court system means that a party without a lot of money loses by default. < 1274641545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark shikari is cool < 1274641552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think he cares about the legal implications of ... anything... < 1274641557 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274641686 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274641720 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I believe he lives in a country where he doesn't have to < 1274641731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"believe"? :-) < 1274641761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: As x264 does not do binary releases, they barely get around US patent laws. < 1274641766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Barely*. < 1274641793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's not compiled, they've not actually implemented the patent, merely written a description of the patent. < 1274641795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that using x264 is only practical for those doing illegal things anyway -- like making encodings of TV shows. < 1274641801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US patent law is fucking retarded. < 1274641805 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1274641824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What if they shipped it with a compiler binary and a program that would run the compiler on any source files in its vicinity? < 1274641837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler: legal, obviously; program that runs a compiler no matter where it is: legal, obviously; description: legal. < 1274641840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum: legal? < 1274641850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Whether or not you would win that case is a function of how much money you have to blow. < 1274641864 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274641875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, seriously. < 1274641878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it technically legal, though? < 1274641888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I don't know*. < 1274641892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No component is illegal -- does the whole thing constitute an implementation? Nobody says you have to run the compiler script. < 1274641893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lol :P < 1274641938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be perfectly clear. It may be an implementation. The script *itself* might violate a patent on automating compilation of a program. < 1274641972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in short, impossible to know if any program is legal. < 1274643026 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274643052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one could argue that the binary file is a bunch of perfectly legal bits stuck together. < 1274643211 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1274643236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is illegal but 0 is okay < 1274643549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274643550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLARGH SOFTWARE SUCKS < 1274643569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything sucks. < 1274644047 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274644066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aieee. < 1274644069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pinged. < 1274644074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You'd know har har < 1274644076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem < 1274644078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay classy, alise < 1274644101 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274644113 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: two links for you < 1274644116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?QBFORTH < 1274644129 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.staticramlinux.com/ < 1274644146 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H.264 is a suckfest. < 1274644150 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the good kind. < 1274644156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Legally, yes; but technically? < 1274644159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly superior to Theora. < 1274644164 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it's friggin' amazing. < 1274644170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274644170 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, here's another: http://sta.li/ < 1274644177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know of sta.li; I'm a fan of the suckless guys. < 1274644183 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, haven't heard of WebM yet? < 1274644190 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sta.li/n < 1274644191 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought so, just making sure < 1274644198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Mm. < 1274644200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: We need to assrape the H.264 owners until they decide to open it up :P < 1274644211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't WebM based on VP8-- yep < 1274644214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks < 1274644222 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP8 + Matroska + Theora < 1274644228 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor-L: We need to assrape the H.264 owners until they decide to open it up :P // I like this no matter WHAT context you interpret it in! < 1274644231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, Vorbis < 1274644233 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry) < 1274644248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: We did not need to know that ... but when will the fanfiction be done? < 1274644273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Hey, that QBFORTH was written by our very own zzo38! < 1274644284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to his journal is broken though. < 1274644288 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION applauds
< 1274644309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: What, exactly, are you apploading :P < 1274644313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applauding? < 1274644340 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 :P < 1274644352 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: argh! that link worked for me < 1274644355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day, I mean < 1274644365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he even compiled it, too (QB4.5) < 1274644374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Does zzo38 just generate an applaudy reaction in you? < 1274644377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny curiosity, even if I don't really know Forth ;-) < 1274644383 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, just the way you said it :P < 1274644393 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like he was about to come out on stage and take a bow. < 1274644411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to have deleted or at least elided the entry from his journal. < 1274644417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or the file disappeared. < 1274644435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: By our very own.... ZEEED ZED OHHH (thirtyeight)! < 1274644435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION having internet woes
< 1274644442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/music < 1274644447 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY < 1274644478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rapidshare.com/files/390783825/qbforth.zip.html < 1274644478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5: 9BAE75C6AB6AF45949BE9262350A36EE < 1274644483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there :-P < 1274644483 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1274644510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a Perl Forth, a Bash Forth, so it's not that odd ;-) < 1274644589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the tradition of promoting redditor-run sites that try to do the same thing as existing sites but that don't suck: http://filevo.com/ < 1274644621 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Forthfreak wiki lets you upload, interesting < 1274644801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my wifi connection keeps flaking out < 1274644840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webm < 1274644897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue is that VP8 sucks balls... and is also patented < 1274644908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the H.264 guys are more open about their patents :P < 1274644922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Only in comparison to H.264. < 1274644934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the best video compression format in existence... < 1274644940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the lossless ones! < 1274644949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best lossy one. < 1274644952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora and WebM can't both be patented, how can MPEG-LA have a patent on every video format ever to exist?? < 1274644966 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274644975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: MPEG-LA probably doesn't have all the patents that apply to H.264. < 1274644977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's not just MPEG-LA. < 1274644985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patents on VP8 are well-known iirc < 1274644989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the ones that are being claimed to apply to H.264 in public. < 1274645009 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to force everyone to go back to VIC-20 times, suffer with only 3.5k of RAM, then when they get tired of that, to decide whether they want to play fairly or not
< 1274645014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, the only ones confirmed are ones that Google has granted a royalty-free license for. < 1274645038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though MPEG-LA *is* busy going "What a lovely codec you have there. Wouldn't it be a shame if something were to... Happen to it?" < 1274645074 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy, we live in a Linux world with lots of openness ... and yet other people are still crazy as loons < 1274645076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that in Snape's voice -- theory -- MPEG-LA is Snape. < 1274645083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harry Potter is a metaphor for video encoding, and software patents. < 1274645089 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they learned nothing? (apparently) < 1274645089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Should've been a mobster voice. < 1274645093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how Voldemort is. < 1274645120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Linux, Ubuntu 10.04 is nice! < 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are worse than just being proprietary! < 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one thing to not share, it's another to prevent completely independent works to exist < 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio works okay? < 1274645167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it, heard some stuff is better but some regressions still exist < 1274645212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think audio should work fine but I don't hae speakers in < 1274645217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It registers volume and everything < 1274645227 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still many PulseAudio haters < 1274645229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new themes finally make the thing look half-decent which is nice < 1274645235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah you can just uninstall it if you don't like it < 1274645235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine for me. < 1274645237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i really don't care < 1274645239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio, that is. < 1274645246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i do hate is that flash video/audio is desynched < 1274645256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be pulseaudio, or the fact that the plugin is 32-bit and my install is 64-bit < 1274645256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1274645258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying though < 1274645262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio is quite high latency iirc so... < 1274645386 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startup speed is better, no? < 1274645416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better to login screen -- there is a quite large lag of nothing happening between logging in to desktop, but that constitutes the entire log in time, so maybe it is just delaying showing it < 1274645419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this machine is old and futzy anyway < 1274645423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wouldn't rely on its experiences < 1274645537 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-66.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274646396 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274646413 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274646570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleugh, broken links. < 1274646591 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274646745 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274646820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roken blinks. < 1274646998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jim Davis has stated that he created Garfield with the sole intention of making money. He decided to create a strip that would be popular with the masses, in order to be commercially successful." < 1274647009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done. < 1274647040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1274647054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not? < 1274647067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's single-handedly lowered the quality of comics! < 1274647091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever *read* Garfield? < 1274647108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty amazingly poor. < 1274647111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hi ais523! < 1274647119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't go appearing like that without me knowing! < 1274647119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, haven't seen you for ages < 1274647124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to missing each other < 1274647128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you haven't joined in... < 1274647131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long have you been here? :P < 1274647136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there. < 1274647141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any news? < 1274647152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly little < 1274647157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to Canada and back < 1274647177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then spent a week alternately asleep and preparing for the Pokémon World Championship qualifiers < 1274647182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're in Birmingham this year < 1274647194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I mean, how hard can it be? < 1274647233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Card game or video game? < 1274647239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game < 1274647247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to get schooled. < 1274647259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh, I was 6th in the world on the online practice simulator for a while < 1274647271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tournament Pokemon players take the game to fairly absurd heights. < 1274647275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1274647288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just had to come up with something even more absurd < 1274647309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as spending hundreds of hours to maximise the stats on your team? < 1274647316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hundreds? < 1274647323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taken me about 5 so far < 1274647326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only one member to go < 1274647334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've not maximised the stats. < 1274647336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: the Pokémon RNG has been broken for a couple of years) < 1274647340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I have < 1274647349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was broken? Okay, that changes things. < 1274647365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain trying to get the timings /just right/ < 1274647377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you keep trying, you can hit a 1/60 second interval after about an hour of trying < 1274647378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got *a good chance* of getting schooled, then. < 1274647422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind, you're playing against the kind of guys who come up with ways to have omnipotence in D&D. < 1274647441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know at least 3 of said guys < 1274647458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least 2 of said methods, although not in detail < 1274647458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have a clue what you're getting into, then. < 1274647462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274647464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1274647469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I like to act like a noob because it's funny < 1274647483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leaves me with one last piece of advice, then. < 1274647489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck. < 1274647490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1274647500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1274647541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did you know that the second turn of drowning in D&D sets your hitpoints to 0? it's the only known way to recover from minus arbitrarily large HP in the turn you have before dying, and part of one of the omnipotence combos) < 1274647607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1274647695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume this omnipotence is a closely guarded secret. < 1274647705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1274647732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must just suck at Google, then. < 1274647737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's called Pun-Pun. < 1274647739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other method I know involves a kobold build that can transform into a kobold with slightly better stats, which can transform into a kobold with slightly better stats... < 1274647741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Pun-Pun < 1274647754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some reason it only works with kobolds, although I can't remember why < 1274647794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You get an ability that works on "scaly ones" that lets you modify yourself. < 1274647805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1274647816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on any vaguely reptilian race, kobolds are just the easiest such race to use. < 1274647852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pimg < 1274647862 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274647895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, IIRC, that was a bucket of water, a spell that lets you prevent yourself from dying from damage for a couple of turns, an *infinite damage loop*, and some spell that gave you extra stuff for the amount of damage you got. < 1274647924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a way to make the temporary bonuses permanent. < 1274647944 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274647971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's yet another way of doing it. Polymorph. Awaken. Restoration. Repeat. < 1274647990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D is so broken it's not even funny. < 1274648012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nerd war sense is tingling. < 1274648017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, nobody's managed to break Pokémon yet < 1274648022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not for lack of trying < 1274648032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1274648041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No nerd war. Just nerding. < 1274648045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D can be broken in this way, but there are different players some player prefer a different way < 1274648053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very well-known fact that D&D is incredibly not-balanced. < 1274648056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, any rule can be override if there is too much wrong < 1274648067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that the wide variety of stuff would make Pokemon resilient to breakage. < 1274648071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is certainly correct that D&D is not balanced, however. < 1274648094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you'd expect a wide variety to make things more easily broken, in fact < 1274648102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-gestalter class hopefully makes it a bit more balanced however < 1274648105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance Wobbuffet turned out to be unexpectedly broken in singles < 1274648105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a paper-and-pen RPG doesn't need to be balanced, it just needs to have enough structure to let players have fun. < 1274648126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the championships are doubles, so you can't exploit it < 1274648127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not stop them *from* having fun. < 1274648132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, basically. Although balanced can helps a bit < 1274648179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icosahedral RPG should be more balanced however in some ways, due to some of the difficulties involved in casting spells and so on. < 1274648209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of ways to do aleph-one damage in one turn < 1274648227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ways to permanently transform your character into a sandwich < 1274648259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is possible even in D&D, isn't it? < 1274648274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stack a bunch of polymorph any object spells < 1274648276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of these things refer to D&D < 1274648278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one deal aleph-one damage in one turn? < 1274648287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274648288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell wrote that into the rules? < 1274648337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wasn't deliberate < 1274648341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are rather self-contradictory anyway < 1274648347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in places, at least < 1274648354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work? < 1274648362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: RPG system writers manage to do some really, really funny things by accident. < 1274648390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Icosahedral RPG rules has one deliberately contradictory rule, however, which is called the Fundamental Rule: All rules have exceptions, including this one. < 1274648391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linky? < 1274648419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, in D&D there exists the Peasant Railgun. You can have a line of people with readied actions to hand an object in front of them. Readied actions, when triggered, happen immediately. < 1274648440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, with a line of people long enough, you can send any object any distance in 3 seconds. < 1274648449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that being the granularity of D&D) < 1274648450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, that is a rule you have to override in that circumstance because it is obviously wrong in that case. < 1274648454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how many friends do you share with me? < 1274648464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard exactly the same stories, with almost exactly the same wording < 1274648469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know, actually. < 1274648471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably these things are just memes that spread around in gaming circles < 1274648471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many rules in D&D you have to override, especially since you can make up any new situation with new ideas < 1274648475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither do I < 1274648480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: These ones are just common knowledge in gaming circles. < 1274648483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1274648495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Except, of course, when it is sufficiently amusing. < 1274648507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unable to play RPGs. < 1274648518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I lack sufficient friends to do so < 1274648549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... You're too lonely to play D&D? Now that's sad. < 1274648559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274648563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play D&D sometimes < 1274648579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character cannot do very much damage in one turn, but that's OK, I don't need < 1274648582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more that the couple of friends I have aren't even remotely interested. < 1274648597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can increase my armor class a lot in one turn, however. < 1274648604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: DPS is only worth it when it's entertaining, of course. < 1274648622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does DPS means? < 1274648629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damage-Per-Second. < 1274648639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to refer to a character build based on maximising that. < 1274648659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: most roll-players. < 1274648662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what some people like to do, but different people like to play differently < 1274648723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play it differently, planning ahead too much and using such things as Zwischenzug and so on. < 1274648741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also try to avoid to kill someone, usually. < 1274648761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That alone makes the game a lot more intricate. < 1274648949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been to Canada and back < 1274648954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit I want to be in Canada! < 1274648971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a relatively pointless experience, really < 1274649071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am already in Canada. < 1274649093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: ... You're too lonely to play D&D? Now that's sad. < 1274649106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too; I have 0 real-life friends. Well, that's not true, I have about four but that's just because I met up with some internet friends. < 1274649123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you provide me with lodging :| < 1274649128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1274649133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think so. < 1274649146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... idea < 1274649154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: international nomic competitions; every game is two-player nomic < 1274649157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :played in person, in real time < 1274649169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a pretty robust initial moveset < 1274649174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in the later stages, the initial ruleset gets harder and harder to work with < 1274649179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I fear that with two, people would constantly vote down each other's proposals < 1274649180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring greater nomic skill < 1274649184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's clearly the best strategy < 1274649189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing would ever happen < 1274649192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay then, four -- or perhaps some mechanism to make this not happen somehow < 1274649197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as penalties for voting against < 1274649230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use an odd number of players, such as three or five players? < 1274649246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even seen a solitaire version of Nomic online < 1274649251 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some five players card games, such as Napoleon < 1274649259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the initial rules had huge restrictions on proposals, and the idea was to win in the minimum number of turns < 1274649273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what were you in canada for, btw? < 1274649294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from Agoran diplomatic relations < 1274649309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/btw/eh/ < 1274649318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: conference < 1274649363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHY WASN'T I INVITED :p < 1274649378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you hadn't submitted a paper to it? < 1274649389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What conference is that? < 1274649429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you play D&D, is there a big monster with three tentacles in your party (perhaps NPC)? < 1274649442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only in the D&D 3.4Hentai edition. < 1274649482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does such an edition exist? < 1274649489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play 3.5 edition < 1274649491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That *sort* of thing actually exists. Don't recall the name of the splat book in question, though. < 1274649513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope such an edition doesn't exist but, well... < 1274649524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mathematical Foundations of Programming Semantics < 1274649535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, my question did not mean such things as that < 1274649615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thanks, what are some of the things discussed in that conference? < 1274649628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly about mathematical models of programming < 1274649635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of it was extremely technical < 1274649642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean more specific < 1274649678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I hate the SCP wiki! < 1274649681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game semantics, categorical models of programming-related structures < 1274649689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Amazing time-waste, isn't it? < 1274649699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1274649702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Amazing FUCK FUCK FUCK WHY AM I LOOKING AROUND -- IT'S DARK NOW, I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SLEEP -- < 1274649707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- I CANNOT LEAVE THIS ROOM -- I -- < 1274649719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahah. < 1274649727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that. < 1274649730 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274649734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally did not sleep at all. < 1274649737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you sleep when dark < 1274649749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep too < 1274649754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when you've een reading the SCP wiki... < 1274649762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/een/been/ < 1274649764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's scary shit there. < 1274649770 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I sleep even when reading SCP wiki < 1274649780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't stop me from doing so < 1274649786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are evidently superman. < 1274649794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not superman < 1274649810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not. < 1274649822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't want the Foundation getting you. < 1274649837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, that has nothing to do with it < 1274649856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of coursee. < 1274649881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly most things described there are impossible. But perhaps me or someone can figure out if some of these things are in fact possible or partially possible just to see if it is or not < 1274649893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make thought experiment even for impossible things, I suppose? < 1274649916 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they keep deleting files! < 1274649927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem is that my rational mind legs it once the lights are off. < 1274649955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Legs what? < 1274649966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idiom. < 1274649982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not superman and my D&D character is not superman either) < 1274649991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legs it, i.e. runs away < 1274649996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. < 1274650002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK < 1274650044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can be rational mind becoming mixed up while sleeping, but if you are so, you are sleeping, once you wake up fully you are OK? < 1274650089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least to me it is, usually) < 1274650111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one tell if one is sleeping. < 1274650124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.$/?$/ < 1274650126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guess. < 1274650131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how. < 1274650131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps < 1274650174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes when I sleep I know I am sleeping, but sometimes I forgot and I don't think so. < 1274650288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various ways to determine if you're sleeping < 1274650296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way is to attempt to read something that's written < 1274650309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find you have to concentrate on the letters for the words to be made of letters, rather than just words < 1274650315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like this do not actually always work. < 1274650324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only sometimes. < 1274650345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you would forget that is the case < 1274650349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what happens when you sleep < 1274650530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made some changes in Spider Tarot, you could fix it more if you think there is another mistake, sprunge TfgQ < 1274650824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible on Linux to set a user to have multiple groups? < 1274650856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274650875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users have one "primary group" but they can be in any number of other groups as well < 1274650891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1274651147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you'll find you have to concentrate on the letters for the words to be made of letters, rather than just words < 1274651148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1274651151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even read words in dreams < 1274651156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they simply are not there < 1274651168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe < 1274651176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it affects different people differently < 1274651178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely; try to read a book in a dream sometime, even when lucid < 1274651195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the answer to "how do you know you are dreaming": reality checks < 1274651201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try lucid dreaming some time. it's very interesting < 1274651209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always freaks me out though: knowing the imperfections in this constructed reality. < 1274651273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it works, sometimes you don't know, sometimes it seems to work but can't, but you forgot until you are wake up < 1274651284 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are dreaming right now. Do a reality check. < 1274651307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I can read text perfectly fine, colour is incredibly vibrant, and I've experienced no sort of realisation that I'm dreaming. < 1274651312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both of my hands have the correct number of fingers. < 1274651319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot breath while holding my nose. < 1274651326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks are staying the same between looks. < 1274651329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am awake. < 1274651363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did you think there is still a mistake in the Spider Tarot implementation file?) < 1274651369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that I can read text in my dreams. Usually, I try to pass a finger through a palm < 1274651387 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1274651393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one relatively easy way is to choose to wake up < 1274651397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it changes every time < 1274651402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that nearly always works if you're asleep, just you rarely think of doing it < 1274651408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you choose to wake up sometimes it cannot work, but sometimes it can < 1274651416 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are supposed to do a reality check when you find your thoughts turning to thoughts about dreaming < 1274651416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're awake, it obviously does nothing < 1274651418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I know I am sleep! < 1274651460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I've had a lucid dream < 1274651468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the whole point of lucid dreaming is that you DON'T want to wake up < 1274651476 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had a lucid dream the night before last. < 1274651479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can't do things like passing fingers through a palm I don't think < 1274651482 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the night before that. < 1274651485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I always have >5 fingers < 1274651491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you don't want to wake up, why care if you're awake or asleep? < 1274651491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're sometimes in strange places on my hand < 1274651500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because if you realise you're dreaming, you can control the dreamworld < 1274651504 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I seem to consistently have too many fingers. < 1274651514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should try to control it the JS way < 1274651517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or do you not see the appeal of being god in a universe that can defy physical laws? < 1274651522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test to see if you can control the universe by thinking at it < 1274651524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for being awake or asleep < 1274651530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have an experience entirely specific to your wishes? < 1274651541 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's one reality check. < 1274651544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only affect the universe in a lucid dream if you really think it will work. < 1274651549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is hard to do without first knowing you're dreaming. < 1274651555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you'd have to think it'll really work in real life too; then you would be insane. < 1274651557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1274651565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it does work in real life < 1274651570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody believes it strongly enough to make it happen < 1274651571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand he turns insane < 1274651589 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps, but there's no reason to think so. < 1274651601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1274651608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is #esoteric, I like questioning assumptions < 1274651612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1274651622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 btw < 1274651624 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it questioned. :P < 1274651626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1274651644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you never had a lucid dream? < 1274651648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have < 1274651653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your suggestions about reality checks seem to suggest you hadn't < 1274651657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often I didn't realise I was dreaming at the time < 1274651658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, have you ever /wanted/ to have one? < 1274651664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... that's not lucid < 1274651664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not deliberately < 1274651665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I question that this is the forum for questioning assumptions! < 1274651668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucid dreaming = dreaming & aware dreaming < 1274651678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have one, but I haven't.... < 1274651678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes I wanted to continue them once I realised I was asleep, and continued < 1274651689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ah, to me, lucid dreaming = dreaming where you control your actoins < 1274651690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actions < 1274651694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the world around you < 1274651700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do in every dream, just not very intelligently (control your actions) < 1274651700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know you're asleep to do that < 1274651707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, not for me < 1274651708 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of having a lucid dream makes me want to have a lucid dream! < 1274651709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your definition is wrong :-) < 1274651713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't continue with dream plots after I become lucid < 1274651716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just can't get into the zone < 1274651720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem is: I can never get clearness < 1274651722 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the idea of wanting something makes me want to do something else. :P < 1274651727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do the spinning, which is supposed to help; everything is still cloudy. < 1274651730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, dream plots? < 1274651734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch and stare at bricks and other detailed objects: doesn't help. < 1274651735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we both dream pretty differently < 1274651737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in plotter or as in story? < 1274651739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try and keep doing things rationally: doesn't help. < 1274651745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes all fuzzy and I wake up. < 1274651746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Story.... < 1274651749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274651762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a plotter plotting graphs of dreams
< 1274651765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be interesting < 1274651765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's because you're too logical, I think < 1274651772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dream plots normally aren't self-consistent < 1274651786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can do totally illogical things afterwards < 1274651789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine you're the sort of person who'd notice, and that would screw up lucid reality < 1274651793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I lose all sympathy for the characters in the dream < 1274651796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dream plots are never self-consistent, even if you think it is < 1274651796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you know it isn't real < 1274651796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and care not one bit about the plot < 1274651797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost never remember my dreams < 1274651804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as far as I know I never had a lucid one < 1274651805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think it is that is because you are inconsistent < 1274651815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have a sensible illusion of reality unless you think it's real < 1274651820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny the limitations on my current lucid abilities. < 1274651836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can jump out of a window and glide to the ground; I can manage some sort of limited, crappy low gliding-flight. < 1274651845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot change my surroundings at will or cause things to appear. < 1274651852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, before you do that make sure it actually is a lucid dream < 1274651856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course. < 1274651862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you ever notice you have more fingers than usual in a dream: < 1274651863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my flight abilities were generally limited to floating down staircases < 1274651867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch the strange ones. < 1274651869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will FEEL TEM! < 1274651870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THEM < 1274651874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274651875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I could make the staircases appear at will, so it was less limited than it might feel < 1274651876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, it will feel like a tingling, faint and strange. < 1274651879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It definitely feels alien. < 1274651881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I see... < 1274651884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, there is sensation. < 1274651893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never been aware of dreaming while dreaming so.. < 1274651893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sense six or more fingers. < 1274651898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I had recursive dreams < 1274651898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bizarre. < 1274651904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most people do < 1274651915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but recursive dreams are pretty strange < 1274651922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Apparently if you can make a mirror or similar appear with your desired dreamworld in it, you can enter it to go there < 1274651929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently thinking of a place and spinning around will get you there too < 1274651930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like dreaming you wake up, and you don't < 1274651939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreamworlds are like all the silly magic fantasies ... working < 1274651945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it just needed a place in dreamworld geography < 1274651956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes have very recursive dreams < 1274651967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about clapping your hands and believing in faeries? ;P < 1274651968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: more than two levels? < 1274651974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to do two levels a lot, although it hasn't recently < 1274651986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I actually had 3 levels once < 1274651987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That might even work. < 1274651988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, waking up, getting ready, etc, then waking up again and being annoyed at having to do it all all over again < 1274651991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was bloody strange < 1274651997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I didn't know I was asleep at the time (and it wasn't lucid) < 1274651998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, more than two levels. I don't remember exactly but I think perhaps seven levels < 1274651999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Side-note, apparently dream sex is better than the real thing. < 1274652005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's impressive < 1274652006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck getting lucid enough to do that though. < 1274652014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how on earth did you keep track? < 1274652020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I expect it's better than the real thing by definition < 1274652026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about dream sex without being lucid? < 1274652029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what you want to have from sex, not what sex actually is < 1274652030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it depends. < 1274652039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Please, for the love of god, tell me you don't actually know. < 1274652041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you have a bad imagination you'd find it hard to think of what you want from sex. < 1274652047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I don't :P < 1274652048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know how. I don't actually remember so I guessed < 1274652061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is the best I can remember < 1274652068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it was only two levels, but seven equalled two in that dreamworld < 1274652131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, an issue with lucid dreams is that the characters can never be realistic. < 1274652140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course such things are possible, but that isn't what I can remember (of course it is not possibly to remember exactly the dreams) < 1274652141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your subconscious will be maintaining them; at best they'll be poor copies of you. < 1274652148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people aren't realistic in real life either, though < 1274652150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even unrealistic in an interesting way < 1274652158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven is just the approximate number. But I know it was something close to that number < 1274652166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I'd like to do in a dream is to get powerful enough to be able to set pi to 3. < 1274652174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D < 1274652177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine my vision will go all fucked up and then I'll wake up. :) < 1274652180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to know the consequences < 1274652183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1274652184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or be able to work them out < 1274652185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you'd fail < 1274652187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make the geometry non-Euclidean. < 1274652190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what ais523 said < 1274652194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1274652196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your own mind doing the calculations, after all < 1274652199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my mind would just go on my naive "dream" expectation of what would happen if pi became 3 < 1274652202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Positive curvature should do. < 1274652204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274652209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circles becoming hexagons, etc? < 1274652210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the consequences of pi = 3? < 1274652211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, everything goes fucked up and the universe is destroyed < 1274652222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think my mind can perceive a non-pi pi < 1274652229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing much; it's simply false. < 1274652235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi isn't a constant you can change < 1274652239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a consequence < 1274652241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, if anything Pi is *already* less than 3.14159... < 1274652262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe is only locally Euclidean. < 1274652267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi is in Euclidean geometry. < 1274652283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no Euclidean on Earth. < 1274652288 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything is a consequence of pi = 3. < 1274652295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: O rly? < 1274652297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm < 1274652300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, I said locally. As in locally. < 1274652307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're in a gravity well. < 1274652309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1274652318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi has the value it has regardless of geometry. You just have to use it different ways in different geometries. < 1274652320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locally as in "visual proofs work if you look at them". < 1274652329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, but pi as the ratio that it is. < 1274652345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the ratio of the circumference to the diameter changes. < 1274652349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try changing e as well < 1274652351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "circles are hexagons" consequence of pi = 3. < 1274652365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, then what would hexagons become? < 1274652368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's not valid. < 1274652369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you just hate Euler? < 1274652370 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circles. :P < 1274652377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, why? < 1274652383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: His identity. < 1274652388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circles would still have no (or infinity) corners. < 1274652390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1274652391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're RUINING it! < 1274652456 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think that a number of the form a^(bi) where a and b are real numbers always has absolute value 1. < 1274652466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs sage to try it.
< 1274652471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try sage, not what uorygl said. < 1274652486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage ? < 1274652493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS> < 1274652493 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm confident that that's true for positive a. < 1274652506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a mush of CASes. < 1274652520 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's clearly false for a = 0. < 1274652533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage is a mush of CASs with a bad python frontend < 1274652533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh. < 1274652541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired of Mathematica's UI on Linux. < 1274652546 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for negative a, my intuition stops there. :P < 1274652551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( sagemath is no longer in Ubuntu, it seems < 1274652559 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I remember that (-1)^i is a biggish real number. < 1274652577 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's actaully a smallish one. Bah. < 1274652580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^i is real, and that still confuses me. < 1274652587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck duck go is so awesome < 1274652599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)^i = e^-pi :P < 1274652620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, complex exponentiation is multivalued. < 1274652640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, (-1)^i and e^-pi have all the same values. < 1274652665 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, obviously, e^-pi has a certain interpretation as the exp function. < 1274653067 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1274653181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, um, why do all CASs suck? < 1274653232 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the problems are undecidable unless one approximates? < 1274653250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274653259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; you don't use a CAS for such problems (and they try very hard to never return approximated results). < 1274653267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because they suck, is the answer. < 1274653284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fall into two categories: Closed source thinsg that can do what you want, but with a lot of fluff, some fundamental issues, and horrible UIs; < 1274653286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1274653300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open source ones with a decent foundation, no UI whatsoever, and extremely limited capabilities. < 1274653315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were a crazy man I would say that I should start a project to create a decent open-source CAS -- I am a crazy man. < 1274653325 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Approximates" meaning one has to take some shortcuts. < 1274653342 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274653388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. But I don't think that's why they suck; it's unavoidable. < 1274653604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274653980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274654060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage has Maxima, hasn't it? < 1274654097 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274654110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it uses Maxima for some things. < 1274654124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not just use Maxima? < 1274654151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2 MiB/s, oh yeah. < 1274654160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because Sage has a nicer interface and can also associate with other packages. < 1274654163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxima itself is very limited. < 1274654177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should give Symbolics mucho moneys and get myself a copy of Macsyma (predecessor of Maxima) :-) < 1274654188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, ooh, go back to the 70s A.I. Lab and use AUTOMATH! < 1274654203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Maxima is from MacSyma's code, isn't it? < 1274654215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274654226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's cooler. It ran on Lisp Machines for fuck's sake! < 1274654238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no-one uses them! < 1274654252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still buy them! < 1274654274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt $675 to $3,500. < 1274654279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're still amazing. < 1274654292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must build our own! < 1274654306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life dream, man. My life dream. < 1274654309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from my other ones < 1274654313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like? < 1274654358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building the perfect CAS, building the perfect OS, building the perfect interface... < 1274654384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not, like, solving the Reimann hypothesis or anything? < 1274654388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build the singularity... < 1274654392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, I was getting there! < 1274654411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that I could solve the Riemann hypothesis, anyway. < 1274654416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I will build the singularity first! < 1274654436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then do the rest! < 1274654439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I did fancy once proving it independent of ZFC, as a big ha-ha-fuck-you to both camps. < 1274654447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But the singularity will do the rest for you... at least the ones that are still relevant. < 1274654469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274654471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, make sure it's Friendly. < 1274654479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will be the singularity! < 1274654494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can throw the "friendly" out of the window, then. < 1274654496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STARRING ELIEZER YUDKOWSKY AS HIMSELF... < 1274654498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega < 1274654504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming to a mind near you... < 1274654518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just the head of a quasi-personality cult. < 1274654526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also featuring Robin Hanson and uorygl (for comic relief). < 1274654527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antagonist: taw < 1274654542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh, I don't see Eliezer as a cult leader. < 1274654544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do we fit oerjan? < 1274654546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not his fault people idolise him. < 1274654558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure oerjan wants nothing to do with the singularity; he believes in god anyway :) < 1274654573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will go to war with god! < 1274654581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steady on, Philip Pullman. < 1274654595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the whole bloody incompleteness thing! < 1274654618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's Goedel you're thinking of there, not god < 1274654625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is Hansom part of the comic relief crew? < 1274654630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hansom :D < 1274654635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does fax come in? < 1274654648 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I get for typing with one hand and one finger. < 1274654659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No, he's just a raving scientist on the side. < 1274654663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fax is secretly god. < 1274654664 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274654675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She just has problems coming up with proofs of his own existence... and really hates humans < 1274654676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I shall go to war with fax! < 1274654677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her < 1274654692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And break her Klein bottles! < 1274654699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG-13 plz < 1274654710 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Riemann hypothesis seems like the sort of thing that's definitely either true or false. < 1274654724 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should add some more "definitely"s. < 1274654733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's definitely either definitely true or definitely false. < 1274654737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've often wondered what the undecidability of the RH would imply. < 1274654750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Be careful. < 1274654756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would obviously be decidable if a counterexample existed. < 1274654766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some hypothesis, I forget what, < 1274654775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a case for n=m was proven < 1274654780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then n=m+1 or such was proved independent < 1274654782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without anyone expecting it < 1274654851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ehird ehird 502M 2010-05-23 22:45 sage-4.4.2-linux-64bit-ubuntu_10.04_lts-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz < 1274654852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1274654857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is alise in this epic. < 1274654869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a real boy. < 1274654872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE NO STRINGS TO HOLD ME DOWN-- < 1274654885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grabs some string
< 1274654900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, Sage is massive. < 1274654911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, ais went < 1274654922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offloaded it onto an experimental flash drive RAID. < 1274654940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it how many gigs when expanded? < 1274654940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2? < 1274654950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and a bit, IIRC. < 1274654994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION interprets that literally before realizing that the non-literal interpretation is a lot more likely.
< 1274654997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this for a system inferior to the commercial CASs. < 1274655001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1274655004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Interprets what literally? < 1274655020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Phantom_Hoover meant "one gigabyte plus one bit". < 1274655023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274655033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage now lives in ~/research/2010-05/sage; a rather unassuming directory name for the behemoth it is. < 1274655061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a lot of the cruft is pointless copies of libraries you almost certainly already have. < 1274655066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the web version. < 1274655084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not < 1274655089 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274655095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; too slow and... impersonal. < 1274655103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah. < 1274655123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the offline version takes an ungodly time to load. < 1274655129 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what directory name would suggest that it contains a lot. < 1274655147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And god help you if you are foolish enough to *move* it. < 1274655151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: /opt/sage < 1274655156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/aggregated-database/sage < 1274655163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: 2+2 < 1274655163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1274655164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOO < 1274655165 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that. < 1274655165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was worth it. < 1274655173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It regenerates *every single pyo and pyc file*. < 1274655193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, it did that just now :) < 1274655195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took a few minutes < 1274655206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about ~/research/2010-05/sage-bloody-huge? < 1274655215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: solve(a==1+(1/a), a) < 1274655215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a == -1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2, a == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2] < 1274655225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the date subdivision that does the little-soundingness, I think. < 1274655255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/research/bloody-huge/sage? < 1274655271 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be a bit more subtle. < 1274655283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtlety is for the weak. < 1274655295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: (golden_ratio == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2).full_simplify() < 1274655295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2 == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2 < 1274655298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. :P < 1274655325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1274655330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please choose a new password for the Sage Notebook 'admin' user. < 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do _not_ choose a stupid password, since anybody who could guess your password < 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and connect to your machine could access or delete your files. < 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: Only the md5 hash of the password you type is stored by Sage. < 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can change your password by typing notebook(reset=True). < 1274655334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5, great :P < 1274655349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it broken? < 1274655357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... weak. < 1274655357 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5 is quite broken these days. < 1274655369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not broken by a long stretch: but cracking passwords is doable with some heuristics. < 1274655371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And luck.. < 1274655372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've forgotten my Sage admin password. < 1274655373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*luck... < 1274655377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's generally just quite weak. < 1274655387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes off and gets USB drives
< 1274655533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I love the typesetting ability. < 1274655540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god it can use TeX fonts awesome < 1274655548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, MD5 is not broken for password hashing. < 1274655582 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for md5 there is a way of generating collisions? < 1274655592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1274655594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-established < 1274655605 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portponky: Actually, attacks against it are more advanced than just collisions. < 1274655605 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't break it for passwords < 1274655615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I knew this flash drive RAID thing was a bad idea < 1274655617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't broken < 1274655623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people choose bad passwords often... < 1274655630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure md5 weaknesses have been exploited for that < 1274655635 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you generate a crapload of MD5 sums quickly? < 1274655635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm wrong < 1274655641 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's a backwards md5 search for common strings < 1274655644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 is very fast ofc < 1274655649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is its weakness, partially < 1274655656 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valve used it in their portal 2 arg < 1274655657 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, the state of the art is given X and Y, find Z and W such that MD5(XZ) = MD5(YW). < 1274655705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION must sleep
< 1274655710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: musn't. < 1274655715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only 11pm. < 1274655866 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one reason why just doing Hash(password) and storing that is bad idea. < 1274655873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1274655909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password storage should utilize 1) Iteration 2) salting. < 1274655965 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274655973 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iteration? Does that mean taking the hash a bunch of times, salting every time. < 1274655980 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274655993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1274656012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, one has to only salt once in first iteration. < 1274656036 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So iteration means you just take hashes of hashes? < 1274656044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = MD5^n(salt(pw)) < 1274656058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set n so that calculating pw_safe takes about 1-2 seconds. < 1274656063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd salt /your/ iterations < 1274656065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone can wait 1-2 seconds to register or log in. < 1274656066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know what i mean < 1274656068 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o ;o ;o < 1274656068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'll be very secure. < 1274656068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bit excessive... < 1274656078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But utterly harmless. < 1274656090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, not being excessive enough is what got us here today: continually replacing our security algorithms. < 1274656093 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = salt|MD5^n(salt|pw) < 1274656110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the more-bits-are-better nonsense you find in bad public key systems. < 1274656119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, here's what you should really do: < 1274656130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = bcrypt(pw, n) < 1274656136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess iteration does make the hash, and therefore any cracking, take longer. < 1274656139 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could design very slow but very unlikely to be ever broken hash function. < 1274656140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out OpenBSD are really fucking good at this stuff. < 1274656142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1274656161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they use EKS Blowfish? < 1274656171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use blowfish + salting + repeated iterations. < 1274656174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very fancy. < 1274656186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you believe cperciva, FreeBSD security officer, you should now use his scrypt instead. < 1274656365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274656495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274656582 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274656721 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274656751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lar < 1274656778 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set unification is horrible < 1274656784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just say this < 1274656818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpermissibile. < 1274656845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i dont have a clear definition of it in my head < 1274657206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1274657211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need the perfect cas. clearly < 1274657325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, DDG is awesome. < 1274658836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274658836 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer