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00:38:09 <jabb> I am so uncreative at naming things. :(
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01:06:16 <coppro> holy shit, the new copyright bill here doesn't unilaterally suck
01:06:31 <coppro> digital locks provisions do (DMCA-style :(), but the rest is actually really sane
01:07:04 <augur> coppro: where's here?
01:07:38 <augur> you can smoke pot in the streets
01:07:47 <augur> who cares about your copyright legislation
01:08:25 <coppro> (we = people who care)
01:10:07 <augur> go smoke a joint on the streets, you damn hippies
01:10:10 <coppro> moral rights got expanded to performances (note: moral rights are epic)
01:10:17 <augur> oh look at me im just walking around in public with POT
01:10:54 <coppro> people do it anyways, but it isn't legal
01:11:08 <augur> its not legal, but the cops dont do shit
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01:12:46 <coppro> also, the bill /legalizes/ non-commercial use of copyrighted works in other copyrighted works
01:12:58 <coppro> so things like mashups are legal if non-commercial
01:13:30 <augur> basically it puts a CC NC on everything
01:14:52 <coppro> there are restrictions though; primarily it can't negatively affect the commercial activity or viability of the original
01:15:22 <coppro> ha - Michael Geist called it the YouTube right
01:17:03 <coppro> statutory damages are lowered for non-commercial infringement, that's good
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01:30:00 <coppro> hmm... actually, the digital locks provisions aren't as bad as when I looked originally
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03:32:10 <coppro> esolang was just linked in #math
03:32:55 <lament> lament the tireless promoter
03:33:21 <lament> i also wrote that article i linked to :D
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04:18:09 <coppro> what's the mathematica to express a function in terms of a single variable?
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08:26:37 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: graue doesn't really come here nowadays, i cannot recall seeing him for years
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08:29:05 <oerjan> he _does_ respond to emails, however, at least last time someone tried
08:30:31 <Sgeo_> What's wrong with wiki?
08:31:35 <oerjan> nothing new that i can see
08:32:20 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: there are also administrators, ais523 and keymaker
08:32:40 <oerjan> but their powers are limited
08:34:55 <oerjan> anarchy or death, i say
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10:31:23 <Slereah> Strange, since I've been here for 3 years or so
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11:25:30 <hiato> Ah well, was hoping for a fibonacci sequence there
11:26:00 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover!!!!!!!!
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11:27:43 <hiato> You crashed my IRC cliet. It couldn't take more than 13 !'s before it overflowed
11:28:49 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover ?????????????????????????????
11:30:48 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
11:32:01 <Phantom_Hoover> hiato¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
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11:34:07 <hiato> Phantom_Hoover:؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
11:34:16 <hiato> (took a while to find)
11:34:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I will not start this again. I will not start this ag... dammit!
11:35:54 <Deewiant> h͆̓͌̉ͬ͏̴̪̗͖̼̳͉͇́i̛ͮ̆̽ͮ͒̑̿̚͘҉͍͕̬̼̟̪a̵̲̖̠ͣ͆t̝ͩ͐́̀͟ͅo͆̂͐̓͆̃͋̈́̚͏͇̳̠̙̝̥̻
11:35:57 <Deewiant> ̩̝͔̩͔̄̊́̄͘͢P̠̠̩͓͍̹͇̟̺̋́͐ͭͥ͡h̬̬̭̙̗ͣͮ͐͒̓̆ͅá͔̤͖̭͈̓ͬ̊̃ͧ̈͢n̸͔̠͉͊ͧ̀̓̒̋̏̇̚t̷̢̙̙̯̩̟̝̱͚̻̓ͫo̹̘̥̼̥ͦ͛̕͟m̴͇ͭ̒͂͋̋̔̐̆_͎̭͉̰͍ͩͣͣ̈ͩ̈̉̚̚Hͫͩ҉̰͇̦̳̭͍͎̜͝͡ǫ̷̣̮̘̥̖͓͖͚̥̾͌̆ͨͯ͆͐͗̊͟ö̡̪̠̞͇͑͂͡v̵͋ͩ̆̈ͯ҉͔̜̞̯̮̫̙̻́e̦̟̦͈̘̯̦ͪ̍̓̃ͬ͑ͯ̎̌r
11:36:25 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, I'm willing to bet that you didn't hand-assemble those diacritics.
11:38:42 <Deewiant> I googled zalgofier and found what I was looking for
11:39:40 <Phantom_Hoover> D͓͓̝͚̟̗̈́̏͋̏̈́ͯͭ̕ę̸̢̟̗̩ͦ͛͗̿̈ͫ̑̅̏ͣ̉ͨ͂̆ͩ̔͛͟͝ė̢̡̤̯̠͓̯̪̫̭̦͙̗͛͂̃͐̿͛̽ͣͣ͂̄͊ͬ̈́ͩ͠w͊ͬ̽̉̈́̿́̄ͮ͊̏͟҉̯̞̮̻̤̥̺͟i̶̜͎͈̟͈̘̞͖͔̬̙̘̥̣͉̥̭̠̪̾ͦͥ̒͂ͦͤ̓̐̒ͧ͂͗ͥ̓ͮ́͟a̅ͭͨ̊͢҉̢̡͎̩̭̞̫͙̗̳͝n̴̸̙̹̘̪̬̫̖͙̯̱̝͍͎̦͕͓ͮ̆́ͯͩ͘͝t͋̿͌̍̈́͋ͩ̍̂̓͌́͊ͣͭ́҉̦͔̞̥͖͔̟͙͈̠̻̭̹͡ͅ
11:41:24 <Deewiant> Too bad neither my client nor gvim can display it properly
11:45:39 <Deewiant> We had that discussion around 19 hours ago
11:47:46 <Deewiant> Yes; I would guess that's because of the line splitting that happened to me
11:54:49 <MizardX> Heh. Firefox was the only program able to render Zalgofied text.
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12:17:54 <Quadrescence> I'M OUT OF CONTROL, CUZ YOU WANT IT ALL, YOU'RE SO DANGEROUS, MY BIGGEST MISTAKE, I'M BLINDED BY YOUR EYESSSSS, [DANGEROUS; D-D-D-DANGEROUS]
12:40:57 <cheater99> is there a programming language which uses chinese for its source?
12:41:08 <cheater99> because that would be, like, pretty damn cool.
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13:49:09 <oktolol> "<Phantom_Hoover> oktolol: Surely octo?" <<< no
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15:50:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, have I expressed my desire to murder whoever created the SQA's computing course yet?
15:52:06 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, is this university level?
15:52:50 <uorygl> Hm, neither Norway nor Iceland is in the EU?
15:53:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Iceland isn't really in Europe in the first place, though.
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15:56:12 <Phantom_Hoover> IIRC geologically it's on the boundary between America and Europe.
16:19:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it just me, or should there be an easy way to view transparent images on a black background?
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16:56:07 <oklopol> for every set containing sets there is a set containing exactly the sets contained by the sets in that set
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17:07:29 <oklopol> for every set there's a set contained in that set that doesn't contain any set contained in the set and no sets of whose are contained in the set
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18:06:10 * Phantom_Hoover notices that spaces don't seem to matter in C in anything other than type declarations.
18:07:42 <AnMaster> I'm trying to work out the semantics of "extern const note_t volatile * dsound_next_note;"
18:07:55 <AnMaster> what does volatile apply to here
18:08:34 <AnMaster> const would be applied to the data it points to. But volatile?
18:09:12 <pikhq> AnMaster: volatile means that it should always be directly written to memory right away, instead of floating around loaded in a register when next it's convenient.
18:09:20 <pikhq> Most useful for things like hardware buffers.
18:09:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, the pointer or the data pointed to?
18:09:45 <pikhq> AnMaster: Uh. I think the data pointed to?
18:09:52 <AnMaster> I know what volatile in general means of course
18:09:58 <AnMaster> the issue was where it applied in this case
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18:10:20 <oklopol> pikhq doesn't know everything about C?
18:10:22 <AnMaster> pikhq, anyway, it wouldn't be "directly written" it would be "directly read" in this case, since it is const you really aren't supposed to write to it
18:10:37 <AnMaster> oklopol, nor do I. But I'm rather new to embedded C programming
18:10:49 <pikhq> Yes, to say that the object pointed to is volatile should be at the left side of *, and the pointer itself to the right.
18:11:03 <pikhq> oklopol: This is one of the few things I *don't* have fully embedded in my head. :)
18:11:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, at least it isn't function pointers. That is one thorny bit in C :)
18:11:27 <pikhq> AnMaster: Argh that gives me such *massive* headaches.
18:11:47 <oklopol> let's see if i'd known the answer...
18:11:52 <AnMaster> pikhq, a volatile function pointer, sounds fun ;)
18:12:28 <oklopol> i wouldn't thought "* volatile" means * is volatile, and "volatile *" means pointer to volatile object
18:13:09 <AnMaster> extern volatile unsigned char AD_C_H; <-- fun thing, this variable is not in any C file, just this header file. It is however in the linker script.
18:13:16 <oklopol> i usually filter out the content with subjects like this, but i realized i have actually coded in c
18:13:23 <AnMaster> anyone know where GNU ld linker script syntax is documented?
18:13:38 <AnMaster> preferably not info pages, I treat that as last resort
18:13:43 <oklopol> "anyone know where baoiuhbeorijgeaorigjeag?"
18:13:57 <oklopol> see the world through my eyes
18:13:59 <AnMaster> oklopol, well, where else should I ask than in here?
18:14:10 <Deewiant> Phantom_Hoover: x ? y : z; foo: goto foo;
18:14:10 <oklopol> AnMaster: i'm not saying you shouldn't ask here
18:14:17 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Also labels.
18:14:24 <pikhq> And cases in a switch statement.
18:14:28 <oklopol> i'm just saying you shouldn't ask me :P
18:14:41 <AnMaster> oklopol, I didn't highlight you?
18:14:47 <oklopol> AnMaster: i didn't say you did
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18:38:56 <Sgeo_> <Sgeo_> Is it turing-complete?
18:38:56 <Sgeo_> <mindeavor> given that events can be reduced to function calls, I would say yes
18:38:56 <Sgeo_> <mindeavor> logically reduced, anyway
18:39:45 <Sgeo_> http://lomic.info/
18:50:36 <Deewiant> Omit the "int::" and you have it in plain C.
18:51:05 <Deewiant> (Except that it's invalid since you're calling printf without a prototype)
18:52:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Prototypeless printf works on my system, but it gives a warning.
18:52:47 <Deewiant> It works on all systems AFAIK, but it's not valid.
18:53:16 <Deewiant> Maybe it is valid if you pass only one argument, though; not sure about that.
18:54:15 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Also, undefined behavior.
18:54:48 <pikhq> main(){puts("Hello,\0xA0world!\n");} // I *think* this is valid?
18:55:24 <Deewiant> Yes: it'll print "Hello," since the string terminates there.
18:55:42 <pikhq> Deewiant: No it doesn't.
18:56:12 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, that's what I want.
18:56:21 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: write() is perfectly portable.
18:56:29 <pikhq> It works on all POSIXen.
18:57:33 <pikhq> Not Windows without Cygwin.
18:58:07 <Deewiant> You could just use putchar, you know.
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19:49:01 * oklopol immediately had to google why go sucks
19:51:58 <DH____> it only mentions Go as Gene Ontology...
19:53:07 <FireFly> I tried Brainfuck, it wasn't that fun
19:55:51 <oklopol> it wasn't, you should try clue instead
19:56:36 <DH____> Seems people think that Perl, Ruby and Python suck roughly as much (similar number of results) but Perl sucks the most of the three...
19:56:42 <oklopol> i should work on clue at some point, there's an obvious fix i should make to the language, but that requires programming
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19:59:09 <DH____> 'No results found for "why Modula-2 sucks"'
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20:00:33 <oklopol> i just get mad about non-esolangs, with esolangs it's okay if something trivial is hard to do, with other languages it feels like a waste of time
20:01:33 <Phantom_Hoover> How about a language which emails some programmers kept in a basement and promises them food if they make a working program from your design notes.
20:01:47 <DH____> Like converting Str to Char in Delphi? I always found that hard...
20:02:06 <DH____> You have to find the Ascii value...
20:02:42 <Phantom_Hoover> I haven't programmed in Pascal for a year, but I recall strings being arrays of chars.
20:03:39 <DH____> Delphi I always had slight quirks - String was TString, a class of TObject...
20:04:56 <DH____> An there was no built-in function for converting between Integer and Real - you had to try and build your own using loopholes...
20:06:31 <DH____> I simulated Reals myself using LongInts and writing a string function to move the dp...
20:07:54 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, that's how GTK works.
20:08:04 <pikhq> And yes, it is *hideous*.
20:08:16 <pikhq> Yes, it's called GObject.
20:08:23 <pikhq> Which is a major part of Glib.
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20:35:24 <Sgeo_> Remind me to post this to alise when e gets back
20:35:25 <Sgeo_> http://shitampersand.com/
20:36:27 <Sgeo_> Although I don't get what's so bad about the keycaps one
20:38:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lambda_calculus#Proposed_criticism_of_lambda_calculus
20:42:07 <oklopol> Sgeo_: it says right there, apparently there's no such thing as ampersand key on keyboards except for mac and mac is so useless they should've left ampersand out of the font
20:42:30 <oklopol> i do have an ampersand key tho, who the fuck doesn't have an ampersand key?
20:42:48 <Sgeo_> But that's obviously untrue, but surely there must be some valid reason to criticize it
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20:51:52 <DH____> or Shift-6 on older keyboards...
20:56:17 <jabb_> What do I do once I've designed and implemented an esoteric language?
20:56:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Preferably *after* writing at least cat, and if possible "Hello, world!".
20:57:16 <jabb_> And it working, of course.
20:57:46 <jabb_> Cause I can write those based on my design, but I have yet to implement it :P
21:05:24 <Sgeo_> jabb_, there are some languages on the wiki that are impossible to implement
21:07:27 <Sgeo_> How does FTL lead to super-Turing-complete?
21:12:37 <pikhq> Super-Turing computation -> fuck it, we can has halting oracle.
21:13:13 <Phantom_Hoover> The cool thing is that I don't think it leads to inconsistency.
21:13:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Provided that it's only an oracle for Turing machines.
21:14:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Which it would be, because if it has the time travel instruction added, it can interfere with the oracle.
21:15:04 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, a machine with a halting oracle still possesses its own analogue to the halting problem.
21:15:47 <Phantom_Hoover> If P(oracle) isn't evaluable by the oracle, there's no problem, right?
21:16:44 <pikhq> Right; that's how the halting problem manifests itself on Super-Turing machines.
21:17:39 <Sgeo_> TwoDucks is implementable if you ignore the ability to retrieve from the future
21:18:14 <jabb_> I write the ugliest Python code ever, I'm going back to C
21:19:27 <Sgeo_> Wait, the TwoDucks spec seems to conflict with the example
21:19:55 <Sgeo_> SEND v TO t; Assignment across time; assign the value of variable v (in the present) to the variable v as it existed at time t (in the past or future).
21:20:13 <Sgeo_> If that's correct, the first example should not cause a paradox afaict
21:20:29 <Sgeo_> Although that description also doesn't send v to t. It retrieves v from t
21:25:19 <Sgeo_> Although now I see the original spec could be interpreted either way
21:26:21 <Sgeo_> Actually, it still looks ambiguous
21:26:30 <Sgeo_> Maybe my brain's not functioning properly
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21:35:53 <jabb_> Once I finish the interpreter I'll post it here.
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21:48:40 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, is the oracle I added to the TwoDucks article correct?
21:50:42 <Sgeo_> To me it looks ok, but I might be wrong
21:52:20 <Phantom_Hoover> It was written on the fly, but there's no reason it won't work.
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21:52:41 <Phantom_Hoover> And if paradoxes don't destroy the universe we have a Turing oracle.
21:53:09 <Sgeo_> With a rewrite implementation, it would first claim it doens't halt, then if it halts, it changes it and pretends it always knew it halted
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22:17:44 <jabb_> I can show you the design
22:18:04 <jabb_> It reminds me of assembly, except it has dynamic arrays
22:18:22 <jabb_> http://ideone.com/wuz3Q
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22:29:32 <uorygl> Hey, some of your Zalgo got stuck at the bottom of my terminal, below the bottom line.
22:48:28 * Sgeo_ is officially declaring war on Gregor
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23:09:14 <jabb_> semantic analysis down!
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23:13:04 <Sgeo_> He has taste buds, I'd assume
23:13:18 <Sgeo_> Not that those are particularly useful, admittedly
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23:15:42 <pikhq> Yes, but tea sucks ass without olfactation apparently.
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23:30:14 <Sgeo_> Have we ever learned why he can't smell?
23:43:34 <oerjan> he's built upside down, so his nose runs rather than smells. his feet on the other hand...
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