00:07:36 The TODO's have some stuff which is implemented wrong. Like some opcodes right now have strings instead of a list of numbers, so the program can't do anything with them. 00:08:04 just the macro opcodes 00:16:07 "Tesla didn't need a computer" 00:16:12 "He just told the data what to do and it damn well did it" 00:16:15 "he also fought corporate crime and satanism with mark twain in a giant robot" 00:17:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: So Chuck Norris was their secret lovechild?). 00:19:55 Wow, that last thing is actually a comic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Fists_of_Science 00:19:58 (SORRY GRAPHICAL NOVEL.) 00:23:55 It's legal to use a police scanner, right? 00:24:03 Or an app that ultimately gets audio from one? 00:24:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:25:02 Sgeo: wat? 00:25:17 http://www.appbrain.com/app/com.scannerradio 00:27:12 Sgeo: Who knows; cares. 00:39:11 Oh! Slereah visited us! 00:39:22 05:49:51 and how does FTL imply time travel? 00:39:25 I didn't realise he was that retarded 00:43:56 hmm, to get FTL you'd need to change enough of known physics that it might not imply time travel after all 00:44:54 03:54:51 Although "Turing-complete" here means something rather different to everywhere else. 00:44:55 It does not. 00:45:04 ais523: HII 00:45:06 ais523: You hid from me again 00:45:35 we need a nice formal definition of turing-completeness on the wiki so we can just point people at it to shut them up 00:45:44 not just "can emulate a turing machine", an actual formal definition 00:46:32 A finite state machine can easy emulate _a_ turing machine 00:49:07 ff 00:49:08 see 00:49:11 this is why we need it 00:49:12 ais523: you write it 00:49:40 alise: I don't think even mathematicians have a nice formal definition that works in every corner-case 00:49:59 or there wouldn't have been that row about the 2,3 thing 00:50:38 ais523: "There exists a function UTM_P: UTM -> P such that interp_P(UTM_P(x)) = UTM(x) for all x" 00:50:44 this leaves the infinite program thing vague, which is probably for the best. 00:54:38 ais523: but I feel that directly appealing to UTMs is unwise. 00:56:03 yes, maybe 00:56:16 and you have problems with halting and IO, too 00:58:14 treating IO formally is easy enough, you just need a potentially-infinite input stream 00:58:14 done 00:58:27 don't need to have it as part of the UTM definition 00:58:37 i don't see how halting is an issue 01:06:26 Wikipedia: A proof that a self-organising, democratic system can arise with very little to no outside control, decentralised, on the internet... and it'll be even more bureaucratic and self-congratulating than in real life. 01:06:28 A success, and a failure. 01:07:28 Wikipedia doesn't face challenges that a real-world polical system might face 01:08:11 And some people on Wikipedia are physically more powerful than others 01:08:17 Wikiphysically 01:08:27 Like in real life. 01:11:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:11:29 How is Wikipedia democratic? 01:12:09 -!- jabb has quit (Quit: brb, upgrading). 01:12:33 uorygl: Votes^WArticles for Deletion 01:12:48 Although admittedly sometimes the sysops just decide to take their own preferred course of action instead. 01:12:58 It's a discussion! Your thoughts do not really count. 01:25:56 alise, lambdamoo? 01:26:36 Sgeo: \mu 01:26:40 ? 01:26:46 Oh, heh 01:30:35 "Thank God we have @reapers to make sure that anyone not active enough get 01:30:35 fragged. But overpopulation and massive programming projects are sucking this 01:30:35 MOO under!" 01:30:40 I didn't realise he was that retarded <-- I think you confuse "retarded" with "don't know a lot of physics" 01:30:56 But even /I/ know that and I'm incredibly physicstarded :P 01:31:32 alise, well, I readily agree to being more of a physicstarded than you. But I'm not a retard in general. That was my point. 01:32:38 every animal is retarded 01:32:42 alise, heck I doubt either of my parents would know this either. Both are social science more or less 01:32:44 but some animals are more retarded than others 01:32:55 are in* 01:33:44 alise, I heard economists and CEOs were some of the most retarded ones in general 01:33:59 with a few exceptions for the CEOs 01:34:09 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:34:11 strange animals 01:34:12 Economists aren't as bad as their reputation. 01:34:19 alise, oh? 01:34:19 CEOs sure. 01:34:26 Actual economists are mostly sane. 01:34:38 alise, what about the current financial crisis? 01:34:41 I'm talking the kind that actually work on the science/theory of economics. 01:34:47 ah 01:34:49 Who everyone then ignores. 01:34:53 right :) 01:35:58 -!- augur has joined. 01:37:51 alise, anyway, Jobs doesn't seem like a stupid CEO. Wait. Ipad 01:37:54 forget what I said 01:38:48 AnMaster: Jobs is a clever man -- and probably quite nice -- he just has different values to most other people. 01:38:57 He doesn't care much about openness in technology, for instance. 01:39:04 true 01:39:16 The folklore.org stories paint him as a bit of an asshole, but really, we all knew that already. 01:39:24 A nice asshole. Go fig. 01:40:40 XD 01:41:24 -!- sshc has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:51:18 -!- jabb has joined. 01:55:39 alise, wrt apple (took a bit to find it, knew I had seen it somewhere): http://media.fukung.net/images/24383/e6fb96d7a9dcc822029dd97dd79382d7.jpg (sfw) 01:57:09 I'd take an iPad if it was cheap :P 01:58:56 alise, ah so the last paragraph doesn't apply to you then ;P 01:59:17 I bought an iPhone in 2007 and it was like £400 01:59:26 And it didn't have any apps then even, so yeah, that was pretty dumb 01:59:28 alise, what is that in SEK? 01:59:30 I jailbroke it on the first day though 01:59:37 Who knows, with the exchange rates now 01:59:42 4635kr apparently 01:59:45 I forget the exact price 01:59:52 iirc those changed quite a lot since then 01:59:52 hm 02:00:04 It was expensive, anyway; you could get a decent laptop for its price. 02:00:15 alise, a thinkpad? 02:00:17 nah 02:00:35 a thinkpad almost one year ago was around 9000 SEK iirc 02:00:50 or 10000, don't remember any more 02:00:59 I got my Toshiba Satellite for just under £500. 02:01:10 It's a capable, if low-specced laptop. I could have got much higher specs, but I preferred the long battery life. 02:01:19 alise, cheap 02:01:31 alise, and not a thinkpad 02:01:37 and even more "not a mac" 02:01:52 alise, anyway I bet it doesn't have a magnesium roll-cage ;P 02:01:59 (iirc my thinkpad does!) 02:04:50 night alise, ais523 02:05:02 ais523, wait, you are up very late aren't you? 02:05:02 night 02:05:10 alise: same reasoning 02:05:12 AnMaster: yes 02:05:14 AnMaster: very late? 02:05:16 2am is not so late. 02:05:19 I'm up! 02:05:36 alise, true, 03:00 (use 24h dammit!) is later 02:05:43 *yawn* 02:05:49 OH THREE HUNDRED HOURS 02:06:08 no, that one doesn't even make sense 02:06:19 it is not 300 hours, nor 300 minutes 02:07:07 It's called military time and you were just supporting it. 02:12:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:12:56 Now I have IRC server in my computer 02:14:18 You can see if it work! 02:15:09 hoo-ray 02:15:37 The 6667 of portage ?! 02:15:45 * Connecting to zzo38computer.cjb.net (24.207.48.53) port 6667... 02:15:47 Slow, or failed. 02:17:33 zzo38: timeout 02:18:22 Sorry, I turned it off for a few seconds to edit the configuration. Try zzo38computer.cjb.net:194 02:18:42 Wow, using the actual IRC port? You are crazy 02:18:44 s/$/./ 02:19:11 zzo38: Connect, then. 02:19:40 I am on 02:20:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 02:20:28 * zzo38 (~zzo38@24.207.48.53) has joined +ADMIN 02:20:28 Hello! 02:20:28 Sorry, I have to leave now 02:20:28 * zzo38 has quit (zzo38) 02:20:28 Wait, 194 is the official irc port? 02:20:40 Sgeo: one of three of the iana-assigned ones 02:27:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:33:47 oh, the reply to my message scrolled past the scrollback and now I must consult the logs! 02:34:56 aha, and phantom_hoover has left so I have no one to reply to the reply to 02:38:54 wat 02:47:01 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:48:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:50:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:52:23 -!- augur has joined. 02:58:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:59:29 I am back on now, and I will tell you a hint: If you are unable to read the log file, you can use the FLUSH command to flush the file so that it can be read. 02:59:43 (Enter the channel name as the parameter to FLUSH command) 03:00:58 As far as I know there is no standard format for IRC log, I created SIRCL format for IRC log. I propose SIRCL has a standard for IRC log format. What is your opinion? 03:03:40 Standard IRC log format is the raw IRC messages. 03:04:07 * Sgeo_ decides he'd trust alise with his life, unless anger and/or yelling could threaten his life 03:04:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:04:11 -!- _lament has changed nick to lament. 03:04:41 Failing that, some obvious /(\d\d):(\d\d)(:(\d\d))?\s+<([^>]+)>\s(.*)/ produces (h,m,(s?),name,msg) 03:04:45 Sgeo_: Good to... know... 03:04:55 Well, maybe not literally my life 03:05:04 Maybe computer-related decisions 03:05:13 Was trying to be funny partially 03:05:17 09:17:22 i _think_ minimal overlap may be a hexagonal pattern, isn't that the equivalent to kepler's theorem in two dimensions 03:05:21 honeycomb conjecture iirc 03:05:26 proven as part of kepler's conjecture's proof 03:05:41 The honeycomb conjecture states that a regular hexagonal grid or honeycomb represents the best way to divide a surface into regions of equal area with the least total perimeter. Mathematician Thomas C. Hales proved the conjecture in 1999 with revisions in 2001. 03:06:06 See http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irc_log/ADMIN/1275700304 you can see the SIRCL format in real action! (I know this channel does not use it) 03:06:10 kepler's conjecture? 03:06:19 The Kepler conjecture, named after Johannes Kepler, is a mathematical conjecture about sphere packing in three-dimensional Euclidean space. It says that no arrangement of equally sized spheres filling space has a greater average density than that of the cubic close packing (face-centered cubic) and hexagonal close packing arrangements. The density of these arrangements is slightly greater than 74%. 03:06:21 SIRCL? 03:06:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler_conjecture 03:06:43 proved by Thomas Hales using exhaustive computer calculations ikn part 03:06:52 *in 03:06:55 (so some people consider it "not completely rigorous" but they're full of baloney) 03:07:01 I called it SIRCL format, short for "Simple IRC Log" 03:07:01 -!- ws has quit (Quit: ...). 03:07:43 That was proven? 03:07:47 Yes. 03:07:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler_conjecture#Hales.27_proof 03:08:08 I seem to not be up to date in mathematical knowledge 03:08:18 I think Flatterland said it was yet to be proven 03:08:18 -!- augur has joined. 03:08:23 I like how his proof was 250 pages of notes and 3 gigabytes of programs, data and results. 03:08:25 SIRCL format does not have to be used for only one channel, although it is common to log each channel separately anyways 03:08:27 It's a 2001 book 03:08:29 Fuck the system :P 03:08:52 Sgeo_: well in 1998 he announced it complete, in 2003 the ann. math. panel announced it was 99% certain of the result 03:09:01 and Hales (2005) in ann. math. was a 100-page summary 03:09:09 so it was quite new and not widely accepted in 2001 03:09:18 Ah 03:09:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:How_to_Escape_from_a_Black_Hole.svg 03:11:43 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:11:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pyramid_of_35_spheres_animation.gif I have again fallin in love with ray-traced images 03:11:55 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pyramid_of_35_spheres_animation_original.gif 03:12:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:14:16 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Created_with_Persistence_of_Vision HAWT 03:16:20 alise! 03:16:49 Yes? 03:19:01 No? 03:19:03 Is Blender generally well-regarded? 03:19:21 Well-regarded as in "I HOPE YOU ENJOY HORRIBLE INTERFACES HAHAHAHAHAHA" 03:19:25 Apart from that, yes 03:19:27 13:51:23 hmm, obviously he'll have ignored me based on that inference and won't hear this 03:19:27 13:51:26 even though it's wrong 03:19:28 :) 03:20:39 alise, what other free 3d authoring tools are available? 03:20:45 Besides POV-Ray, ofc 03:21:06 none 03:21:42 Is Wings3D free? 03:21:44 I forgot 03:24:07 yes 03:24:09 that thing 03:24:14 that erlang thing 03:24:22 Wings 3D can be used to model and texture low to mid-range polygon models. Wings does not support animations and has only basic OpenGL rendering facilities, although it can export to external rendering software such as POV-Ray and YafRay. Still, Wings is often used in combination with other software, whereby models made in Wings are exported to applications more specialized in rendering and animation such as Blender. 03:24:54 15:23:06 Phantom_Hoover: They're not *scary*, they're just more complex than your ordinary integral. <-- s/more/even more/ 03:24:56 So models don't look polished in Wings3D. How is that inherently a bad thing? 03:24:57 integrals are not complex. 03:25:04 Sgeo_: did I say that? 03:25:10 Although no animation support is not a good thing 03:26:45 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:27:20 If you would like to see any additional logged/predefined channels in my IRC, you can propose them in the +ADMIN channel. 03:30:30 16:10:03 * oerjan kept nagging about NB. PLEASE intercal DO NOT being simpler 03:30:32 eventually i listened 03:31:14 What about INTERCAL exactly? 03:31:23 You don't want simpler? 03:31:33 Or do you mean something else, too 03:32:01 If it is CLC-INTERCAL you can modify the syntax however you want (even at runtime) 03:33:21 16:35:09 Seems kind of interesting to me that the same wiki having languages like LOLCODE also has such intellectual articles on Turing-completeness :) 03:33:21 16:36:12 "Can haz stdio"? Classic. :) 03:33:21 16:36:41 maedhros777: you may note that boolfuck shows you don't even need more than two values 0 and 1 for TC, which means increment and decrement are the same operation 03:33:21 16:37:04 also some people here like to hate LOLCODE. just saying. ;D 03:33:22 16:37:23 oerjan: It's the greatest language ever :) 03:33:24 16:37:29 Besides BF, of course. 03:33:26 16:37:46 I should make a real-time multiplayer FPS in BF. =D 03:33:28 You are my mortal enemy now maedhros777 03:33:39 zzo38: No, I wrote a way to do an INTERCAL/J polyglot. 03:34:05 hey, does everyone remember the description of THQ9+ 03:34:07 alise: OK maybe you should post them at wiki, or something like that 03:34:08 or something like that 03:34:17 where T implemented "turing-completess" 03:34:24 zzo38: no point 03:34:28 lament: oerjan's 03:34:29 probably cpressey came up with it 03:34:31 oh 03:34:33 i think 03:34:39 i can't find it anywhere 03:34:41 X Makes the programming language Turing-complete. How this is supposed to be achieved is not clearly specified. (The Perl implementation generates a random number, adds it to each character in the program, and interprets the resulting program code as Perl code.) 03:34:43 http://esolangs.org/wiki/CHIQRSX9_Plus 03:34:54 probably not oerjan's finest moment in language design 03:35:01 hm 03:35:13 i thought i remembered one that just added a single instruction 03:35:15 especially as CHIQRSX9+ is actually an infinite family of languages 03:35:22 all of which are turing complete, but 03:35:33 the implementation selects from a finite (and thus very limited) subset of these at runtime 03:35:36 and interprets the program in it 03:35:40 which is clearly lunacy 03:35:57 "The Perl implementation generates a random number, adds it to each character in the program, and interprets the resulting program code as Perl code." LOL 03:37:28 -!- augur has joined. 03:37:44 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:38:08 06:14:10 Phantom_Hoover, a bit hard here too, I have no children. It would be rather strange if I did, I'm 20 after all... 03:38:12 yeah because there are no teen fathers 03:39:39 oh, i found it 03:40:03 apparently oerjan's suggestion was CHIQRS9+ 03:40:17 and then the author of HQ9+ suggested to add X 03:44:59 08:59:41 oh a lunatic 03:45:04 How DARE you call Emperor Norton that. 03:45:18 lament: Please execute AnMaster for treason. 03:46:19 alise, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Multi_Color_Go.JPG 03:46:44 lament: it's a sheep getting raped by a flower? 03:47:22 yes 03:47:37 10:02:33 oklopol, didn't* ehird use windows95 for a bit? 03:47:38 10:02:39 I mean, like during last year 03:47:38 yes 03:48:00 10:04:46 AnMaster: oh whatever you're just trolling 03:48:00 reaaaaaaaally, it took you that many pages of pointless anmaster-vim-trolling to figure that out? 03:49:03 wow, he even continued after the topic changes 03:49:14 AnMaster really is a bone-headed die-hard zealot :))) 03:49:59 10:30:51 oerjan, ah, don't remember you doing much with fungoids? 03:49:59 10:31:01 he's done more than you 03:49:59 oh snap :P 03:52:23 10:50:29 then again who the fuck gives a shit about water so i guess it's okay that the random number 100 is associated with it 03:52:24 10:50:34 or wait 03:52:24 10:50:39 actually i love water 03:52:24 he's breaking down 03:54:19 11:16:33 what's less crap (for IM, not irc) 03:54:19 11:16:42 pidgin or telepathy? 03:54:20 pidgin def. 03:54:33 empathy is like prealpha software 04:00:24 12:12:48 oklopol: hard to say. i have a theory that alise is the next zzo38. 04:00:24 i'm listening 04:07:05 14:34:11 pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...] 04:07:06 :D 04:07:06 alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia 04:07:13 alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia 04:07:14 :D 04:07:14 alise: could you please check whether the installation files for your browser? :d 04:08:04 14:37:38 Deewiant: ever yours, c. darwin. 17 spring gardens, london, fnord, morphology, adaptive characters, 426. [...] 04:08:05 alise: " e" is already taken), too 04:08:06 I like that address 04:08:45 14:40:11 AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions 04:08:45 14:40:22 ais523, hey, was that all versions ^ 04:08:45 14:40:30 yes all versions all versions 04:08:48 fungot is especially brilliant lately 04:09:23 14:41:43 AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. 04:09:24 xD 04:11:03 14:49:34 AnMaster: un- unless he starts to en- to enjoy watching the tae bo that i had 04:11:03 14:49:45 fungot: Tae bo? 04:11:03 14:49:45 Deewiant: no she no they're not having ah they're not you got to look at why they try to get together there you know 04:11:03 14:50:01 Awfully schizophrenic :-P 04:11:13 HAHAHA 04:11:15 14:52:26 AnMaster: you might as well be in the court i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine 04:11:20 I'm a law student so I am loving my bread machine 04:12:21 20:18:09 what's the mathematica to express a function in terms of a single variable? 04:12:23 #+3& 04:12:30 or f[x_]:=x+3 04:27:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:27:43 -!- augur has joined. 04:28:27 4 28 am doo doo 04:37:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:37:58 -!- augur has joined. 04:43:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:31 bye 04:51:11 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:51:12 Observation: A transparent casing for a melodica provides all the incentive necessary to properly use the spit valve. 05:31:16 -!- sshc has joined. 05:31:16 -!- sshc has quit (Client Quit). 05:31:25 -!- sshc has joined. 05:37:13 -!- augur has joined. 05:51:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:59:39 Hello 06:00:23 hi 06:00:50 Does it work for you? 06:01:47 I would also like to know which IRC servers and/or IRC clients you like? 06:03:01 I look at the bug report list for ngIRCd some are in German, however. 06:03:06 And some are English 06:07:21 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 06:13:37 I think there was a feature request for channel logging. Well, I have implemented channel logging in ngIRCd. (I simply added a code to the "IRC_WriteStrChannelPrefix" function, and it was not difficult to do) 06:13:52 ngIRCd is very good! 06:14:30 -!- augur has joined. 06:14:57 augur: http://codu.org/tmp/BalMusetteNocturne-wipp1.ogg Me playing two instruments at once 06:15:25 listening 06:15:56 (With apologies for the poor audio quality) 06:16:02 Recording was sucksy 06:16:43 i imagine playing was tricky 06:16:53 A bit! :P 06:17:10 Which two instruments? (I suppose some might be harder than others) 06:17:30 christ maryland is a police state 06:17:30 6 cops had people pulled over in the same one mile stretch of road, with a 7th cop in the shadows waiting to pounce 06:17:33 I can hear the music, and it does seem to work OK 06:17:34 D'aww, do I have to tell you, you should guess :P 06:17:50 But it is difficult for me to figure out the instruments 06:17:57 It always is 06:18:12 Here's a hint: The instrument that sounds like a piano is a piano. 06:18:20 Now, can you play *three* instruments at once? 06:18:28 Here's a useless hint: The instrument that sounds like it could be a harmonica or an accordion is neither. 06:18:45 Yes, that's the hard part 06:18:50 zzo38: I suppose my left foot is free .. 06:18:55 is it ... an ARMONICA? 06:19:21 No. No it is not :P 06:19:23 Do you play the other instrument by feet? 06:19:25 It's a melodica. 06:19:31 zzo38: Naw, one hand each. 06:19:47 it sounds *horrible* 06:19:50 So if you play piano you cannot touch all of the notes at once 06:19:57 If you don't have three hands 06:20:05 yes he can 06:20:18 zzo38: You can't touch every note on the piano at once unless you have twenty hands or so :P 06:20:28 lament: You probably don't appreciate accordions either. Heathen. 06:20:38 Gregor: this is the worst thing i have ever heard 06:20:41 god, my ears 06:21:00 I think it is working OK 06:21:20 Although perhaps it could be played much better if it were played properly 06:21:41 Neither instrument is being played "improperly", but I am a noob at the melodica. 06:21:47 Gregor: i even appreciate melodicas 06:22:02 but they usually don't sound like farting 06:22:07 they're not really meant for chords 06:22:15 wtf. They're meant PRECISELY for chords. 06:22:30 (Decent ones anyway) 06:22:38 of course they aren't 06:22:58 the whole point of a melodica is the expressivity 06:23:11 they're for playing a melody line, hence the name 06:23:29 with a chord, you want some control over the relative volumes of the different notes 06:23:40 lament: You are so ridiculous :P 06:23:44 you can't do that so all the expressivity is lost 06:23:47 Next time do it in Bohlen-Pierce (you will need special instruments), some people will think it is more worse, but to some people it is more better 06:25:31 With a chord, if you are using MIDI or whatever, you can even make it to use a different instruments for Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass, and you can do the same if you have a orchestra to do it for you, or a group of singers to sing it 06:28:15 -!- scott4 has joined. 06:31:26 I have heard of a expensive piano that can be both acoustic piano and electric piano at once, so it can be used with no power, the strings can resonate from the other strings, and use all electronic functions when it is switched on 06:31:58 Yeah, they make those. Basically it can retract the strings and detect the hammers directly like a hammer-action digital piano. 06:32:25 Crazy-expensive, and not actually that great of an idea since it can't possibly sound the same in acoustic and digital mode. 06:32:31 Yes, like that, that is what I have heard of. It is expensive 06:33:23 And really, digital pianos have gotten pretty damn realistic recently. The top-of-the-line models simulate a piano rather than using soundbanks, so they're extremely close to an acoustic. 06:34:34 And yes I know it can't sound the same in both ways, that is a purpose of it, you can have both modes for different kinds of musics! But perhaps they can add a third mode, which is hybrid mode, where the strings are controlled digitally, and if a string is hit by a key, it will detect and record that event. 06:35:15 Hybrid mode would probably be even more expensive a lot more 06:35:55 Not sure whether they have that. 06:36:47 I know that just on a normal acoustic piano, it can make a bit different sound when touching the strings by hand, is there any kind of music that requires one person to play the keys and the other person plays the strings directly? 06:37:13 Or if you place additional object on top of the strings it can vibrate that object as well 06:37:45 -!- scott4 has left (?). 06:38:23 How do you write "wood" in Italian? If the part of the music is you have to knock the wood on the piano, do you have to write "wood" in Italian? 06:38:55 You don't "have" to do anything. 06:39:17 You wouldn't want to write "knock on wood" in English though, could be misconstrued :P 06:40:03 BTW, legno means wood, and it's used to indicate you should strike the string with the wood of the bow on bowed instruments. 06:40:54 What does it mean though, if it is written on a piano music? It can mean that for bowed instruments, but if it is piano, surely you cannot do that 06:41:37 I don't know of any meaning for piano music. 06:41:43 I'll ask my composer friend next time he's online. 06:43:03 Can you write Bohlen-Pierce musics? 06:44:01 In what sense? 06:44:27 Am I capable of making software such that I could cause notes to be played in a Bohlen-Pierce scale? Yes. 06:44:41 Am I capable of writing music in it that doesn't suck? Maybe, maybe not. 06:44:57 Did you ever try? And then you can figure out 06:45:23 I have not. 06:46:01 Have you written music using *any* scale other than 12-TET? 06:46:30 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:46:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:09 -!- augur has joined. 06:47:19 http://wonkette.com/415809/arizona-school-demands-black-latino-students-faces-on-mural-be-changed-to-white 06:48:08 What is the purpose of changing that? Just leave it until you happen to make a new mural with white faces? 06:51:17 zzo38: but the NIGGERs and SPICKs! 06:51:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:51:33 -!- augur has joined. 06:52:32 I have written program to play Bohlen-Pierce scale as well, in QBASIC, and in MegaZeux. (The only version of MegaZeux which supports it is P9, which I am the only person that uses it, I am sure because I wrote it and haven't released it yet!) (Version P9 supports playing any frequencies of notes, other versions can use only standard notes) 06:54:38 oh god, Mrs Robinson makes me feel wonderful ::hugs everyone:: :D 06:54:49 (Still, standard notes are the only ones which can be entered directly; to play Bohlen-Pierce you need to program in the frequencies yourself) 06:55:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:07:45 Sightly esoteric way to represent normal note frequencies: f = 440 * 2 07:07:54 Sightly esoteric way to represent normal note frequencies: f = 440 * 2^(x/12). 07:23:25 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:37:25 wonderful. It has just occurred to me that I am probably one of the 10, maybe 5 people in the world most familiar with a new C++ feature. 07:38:43 also, what happened to everyone's favorite Internet girl*? 07:39:16 *Internet girl is an established gender, generally recognized as sharing relatively few elements with female 07:51:17 help :( 07:53:24 help? 07:53:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:53:40 -!- augur has joined. 07:53:52 I hate Flash-reliant websites 07:54:01 He could se his impending interwebs disconnection. 07:54:21 *see 07:54:37 Yeah, ran onto website that had electric version of some magazine. Used Flash, not PDFs. 07:54:47 hate those 07:54:50 die scribd die 07:56:38 Also, One shop had its catalogs only "available" as Flash on Web (why the hell they couldn't put PDFs)? 07:57:41 Of course, standard HTML would be even better... 07:58:20 With no javashit of course... 07:58:59 XHTML > HTML 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:43 Time for me to go to sleep 08:19:51 T-shirt with text "5 > 2". Anyone gets the reference? :-) 08:24:48 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:27:10 unfortunately not 08:28:58 Hint: XHTML... 09:02:08 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:02:08 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:02:10 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:02:12 -!- EgoBot has joined. 09:19:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:22:55 CakeProphet, there? 09:23:27 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 09:23:48 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:29:03 " i'm listening" <<< predicting the future only works if you don't tell the people involved 09:29:13 oh wait i guess telling the conclusion is as bad as telling why 09:29:26 It doesn't. 09:29:36 You can have self-fulfilling prophesies. 09:35:06 not in the series i watch 09:36:51 actually i was just thinking about time travel in cayley graphs 09:39:50 ...How? 09:52:16 -!- lament has joined. 09:59:57 err well see i first take an element g of infinite order that commutes with all the others and then i create rows H, gH, g^2H, ... containing all products with g with others, i consider one of these rows a point in time, time travel is when an element is repeated in a later row 10:00:09 i'm trying to find a way to do a thing, but cayley graphs are so fucking general 10:05:07 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:24:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:25:00 oerjan! 10:25:16 Spirit_Sucker! 10:26:25 Indeed! 10:27:22 one of my piano keys is broken :(( 10:27:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:27:45 oklopol, why? 10:28:00 because a tile fell off the ceiling :\ 10:28:37 so there is a war between your ceiling and your piano, got it. 10:28:51 That seems TV Burpesque. 10:29:00 you should check your ceiling for strange vibration damage. 10:29:19 "Well, I like the ceiling, but I like the piano. but which is better?" 10:29:33 My shift key seems to be defective. 10:29:47 it's the piano that should be jealous of the tiles and not the other way around, i've been doing tilings and not played the piano at all for the past month 10:29:53 oklopol: How vital of a key? 10:30:07 Ooh, replace it with a keyboard key. 10:30:11 oklopol: ah. 10:30:15 a rather low Eb 10:30:34 Glue an E to a B and replace it. 10:30:38 Gregor: HackEgo is seriously broken, unless you've just fixed it. 10:30:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:30:47 oerjan: It reset because I fixed it. 10:30:48 `ls 10:30:49 bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.27406 \ wunderbar_emporium 10:30:51 i mostly play atonal stuff 10:30:52 ah 10:31:02 wel 10:31:04 l 10:31:06 `quotes 10:31:07 No output. 10:31:12 `quote 10:31:12 `quote 10:31:13 even if i didn't, i don't know what keys are more vital than others 10:31:14 102| I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> 10:31:28 33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! 10:31:52 and where german is completely mangled 10:31:57 i guess i use the white keys more 10:32:03 oerjan: Naturally. 10:32:12 what does "WON" mean? 10:32:15 maybe that's why the nazis won, the english couldn't decipher german codes 10:32:20 "wohnen"? 10:32:36 not because it's easier or anything, i just can't stand keys of different color than my own 10:33:04 Perhaps Turing gave up because of everyone saying "what the hell is the point of TCness?" 10:33:27 KingOfKarlsruhe: isn't it wonnen? i guess you're joking. 10:33:32 gewinnen 10:33:46 oerjan: you mean "gewonnen haben" 10:33:50 oh the ge- is on all forms? 10:34:00 oerjan: The office next to mine had "THE BRO-OFFICE" written on the whiteboard. So I modified it into "THE BROÖFFICE". Thinking of the diaresis mark as an umlaut made me consider finding the closest German analogue for that phrase and replacing it, but then I got lazy :P 10:34:06 whatever, my german is rusty 10:34:44 oerjan: yes 10:34:56 Gregor: what does BRO- mean 10:35:08 office for black people 10:35:15 Presumably "of brothers"? Except in the "bro" sense of "brothers" 10:35:15 ...right 10:35:23 And with two extremely white people in it :P 10:36:00 Also if it starts with "DIE" then I have to be careful that I don't write it in that order in case I'm interrupted right after I write "DIE" on somebody's whiteboard :P 10:36:48 Gregor: i sometimes get startled by my watch on late tuesday/early wednesday 10:37:27 it has 3-letter english day names, except when changing in the night it briefly passes through the german alternatives 10:37:39 what 10:37:42 :D 10:37:48 dienstag 10:38:01 yeah 10:38:08 but why 10:38:23 lawl 10:38:29 i presume there's a way to set it to use the german ones 10:38:36 It's the middle of the night and suddenly your watch is making threatening remarks. 10:38:45 exactly! 10:40:22 Why are old languages always hideous? 10:40:57 old things always are, otherwise what would be the point of future 10:41:15 oklopol: ... no. 10:41:19 Just no. 10:41:26 I have no further comments on that "no". Just no. 10:41:27 LINGUAE SENILES NOT SUNT HIDEOSAE! 10:41:29 *NON 10:41:48 Gregor: okay, could you elaborate 10:41:50 * oerjan has no idea whether two of those words are correct 10:42:43 oklopol: no, he said! 10:43:14 * oerjan almost, but not quite, manages to remember what office is in german 10:43:16 the idea is, if you're in the past then you make ugly things, if you're in the present, you make normal looking things, and if you're in the future you make awesome shiny things 10:43:31 so that people in the present (us) would have the perfect spot 10:43:43 something to look for, but still a past we can laugh at 10:44:43 oklopol: actually people in the present make strange dysfunctional things. at least that was my conclusion when visiting an art museum with my father the day before yesterday 10:45:33 (it was "crafty" arts too, or whatever it's called, so the old things were actually useable items) 10:47:02 but in the modern section there was a lot of ... weird stuff 10:47:13 was it future stuff? 10:47:26 might as well have been 10:48:08 my gf is leaving for a month to go museum surfing in sweden 10:48:22 heh 10:48:43 which is perfect because now i can just do math 24/7 and go insane 10:49:15 don't go all gödel on us, here 10:49:27 :DSFDASfADSFADSFADSFADF 10:50:17 (you know he starved to death after his wife died because he thought everyone else was trying to poison him) 10:50:33 oh he was that dude 10:50:49 i eat hamburgers off the street, i don't think i'll have that problem 10:50:55 well okay i don't but i might 10:52:06 oh hm she didn't die she was in hospital 10:52:30 well i just remember gödel+poison 10:52:48 i once read this book or two about mathematicians when i was a kid but i can't remember history 10:55:43 ais523: "There exists a function UTM_P: UTM -> P such that interp_P(UTM_P(x)) = UTM(x) for all x" 10:56:10 the function needs to be computable, otherwise you get almost everything 10:56:25 also you may need a postprocessing function as well 11:01:12 aha, and phantom_hoover has left so I have no one to reply to the reply to <-- doomed never to meet again! 11:02:40 The honeycomb conjecture states that a regular hexagonal grid or honeycomb represents the best way to divide a surface into regions of equal area with the least total perimeter. Mathematician Thomas C. Hales proved the conjecture in 1999 with revisions in 2001. 11:02:44 oh that late? 11:03:04 * oerjan thought it was an old easy variation of kepler's problem... 11:03:42 except i guess that is a bit stronger than if you already have decided on spheres, that may still be easy 11:03:49 *circles 11:06:24 (so some people consider it "not completely rigorous" but they're full of baloney) 11:07:03 on the plus side i recall he started a project to get the proof computer verified 11:10:34 -!- tombom has joined. 11:12:11 probably not oerjan's finest moment in language design <-- actually if you count the fact i actually got around to implementing it... 11:12:49 :D 11:15:43 19:40:03 apparently oerjan's suggestion was CHIQRS9+ 11:15:43 19:40:17 and then the author of HQ9+ suggested to add X 11:16:05 i don't quite recall, however i'll point out that the choice of implementation for X was mine alone 11:19:47 20:00:24 12:12:48 oklopol: hard to say. i have a theory that alise is the next zzo38. 11:19:51 20:00:24 i'm listening 11:21:29 you clearly consider zzo38 awesome, _and_ you are constantly considering reimplementing your own version of stuff. Q.E.D. 11:24:36 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:24:45 -!- tombom has joined. 11:25:00 22:17:30 christ maryland is a police state 11:25:00 22:17:30 6 cops had people pulled over in the same one mile stretch of road, with a 7th cop in the shadows waiting to pounce 11:25:57 actually that sounds like it might be a good idea to do occasionally, i'm sure there are car owners driving above the speed limit who count on not being pulled over because someone in front of them is doing the same thing and would be taken first... 11:26:21 assuming you don't consider enforcing speed limits to be a police state in itself 11:26:38 A police state is a state with police in it. 11:26:43 The only true freedom is anarchy. 11:26:44 :P 11:27:32 Gregor: it is not particularly wise to define police state in such a way that almost all people would prefer to live in one 11:27:41 (yeah i noticed the :P) 11:27:55 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:28:27 people aren't free in anarchy either, they also have to have no clue what's going on, like maybe strapped to a bad with constant lcd injections 11:28:33 *bed 11:28:35 that's freedom 11:29:08 alise: OK!!!!!!! 11:29:32 so to counter that, a perfect society would be one where you could know everything that was going on and still be happy 11:30:07 but i'm the only one in the world who thinks smart people can be happy 11:30:38 clearly i can't be the only one who's... or actually nm 11:30:50 The perfect society is one in which the media constantly placates the people into believing they're in a perfect society. 11:30:53 GOD. BLESS. AMERICA. 11:31:09 yeah countless philosophers have thought the opposite 11:31:35 yes like alise 11:39:33 Hi everyone! 11:42:33 i need a better mouse 11:44:05 Get a cat. 11:44:20 They have a habit of bringing in a wide variety of mice. 11:44:39 I THINK YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD ME 11:44:57 AND YOU MISUNDERESTIMATED ME. 11:44:58 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 11:47:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:48:05 uorygl: onko Phantom_Hoover sinunkin mielestäsi hölmö 11:48:56 Please just insult me in front of my face. 11:49:02 i did! 11:49:10 Yeah, thanks. 11:49:24 we have our own secret language 11:49:29 Called Finnish. 11:49:54 maybe, i'll never tell 11:50:03 Google translate rather agrees. 11:50:06 :) 11:50:18 And it's unlikely that Finnish would be mistakeable for something else. 11:50:37 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:39 well i do agree but i'm not sure my opinion counts 11:51:42 I had something to say but I forgot it. 11:51:51 i have nothing to say but i'm gonna say it anyway 11:52:26 i thought streaming would make life easier than torrenting but i'm seriously considering going back 11:53:38 or buying a megavideo account, there's a million streaming services and they're the only one you can actually count on 11:53:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:53:57 Noerjan? 11:54:31 maybe i'll insult oerjan now 11:54:32 let's see... 11:54:54 uorygl: eix ollu aika lol ku oerjan lähti hei 11:55:16 i need to learn more languages 11:55:47 also that didn't really insult oerjan, actually i have no idea what it meant 11:55:48 Baah, Google doesn't help very much. 11:56:02 "hey wasn't it pretty lol when oerjan left" 11:56:31 i should not let things out unfiltered 11:58:04 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:58:21 Like flies! 11:58:24 They drop! 11:58:31 MWAHAHA 12:24:03 Baah, why is no-one interested in the TreeVM? 12:26:29 TreeVM? 12:28:00 A VM that operates on a tree as the fundamental data structure. 12:29:27 Me and CakeProphet were working on it yesterday. 12:30:16 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:31:42 * Phantom_Hoover decides to switch to KDE again. 12:31:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:32:00 wow 12:32:08 i've only played like 250 games of minesweeper on this computer 12:32:23 and there was actually a slight inference i needed to make during the last game :O 12:33:01 Phantom_Hoover: link? 12:33:03 by which i mean this isn't a puzzle game 12:34:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:34:23 Phantom_Hoover: link? 12:34:26 It doesn't work for some reason. 12:34:35 jabb, it's in yesterday's logs. 12:34:48 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D 12:34:54 Then select the second entry. 12:35:05 Do a text search for "tree". 12:51:24 Blargh, I need to fix my packages. 12:57:44 :o 12:57:59 Phantom_Hoover: Hallo 12:58:05 Yay! 12:58:20 Trees. 12:58:35 So have you had any ideas for the language? 13:03:41 ....none 13:03:56 .. 13:04:03 * CakeProphet is very tired and baked? 13:09:38 baked? 13:09:44 What time is it for you? 13:10:09 Wait, you weren't the guy who'd been up for about 3 days, were you? 13:22:52 It's 5:22am here 13:23:03 It's 1:22 here. 13:23:08 PM, if it's unclear. 13:25:01 where i live time doesn't exit 13:25:03 *exist 13:25:42 How can you communicate with us, then? 13:25:49 oh umm 13:26:18 well err 13:38:09 -!- Gregor has joined. 13:38:18 hi Gregor finally you came 13:38:24 Wooh airport 13:38:30 Airport! 13:38:33 ``` 13:38:34 No output. 13:38:35 airport <3 13:38:44 Zeppelin! 13:38:57 Zeppelins are probably the coolest things ever. 13:39:20 Led Zeppelin? 13:39:47 no the lighter ones that can fly 13:40:03 Although lead balloons can fly. 13:40:07 Mythbusters. 13:40:18 heh 13:40:31 not exactly very surprising 14:00:27 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:06:26 lead balloons? 14:10:06 Balloons. Made of lead. 14:10:15 It does exactly what it says on the tin. 14:12:21 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:18:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:19:09 haha 14:44:02 * Phantom_Hoover is desperately trying to find a situation in which he can call JavaScript communist. 14:44:13 Since its object system is classless. 14:54:21 looks like you've found it 14:55:46 Phantom_Hoover: btw, you wondered what my compiler compiled? it compiles a small language I made (not a very esoteric one though, mostly kind of ordinary) 14:56:23 Esoteric is overrated. 14:57:18 nah, I think it is pretty justly rated 14:57:22 -!- alise has joined. 14:57:28 'Artographer. 15:00:00 olsner, what's the language like? 15:02:02 Phantom_Hoover: mostly C:ish, but with modules and some differences in the syntax for types 15:02:20 Hmm. 15:02:22 olsner: Oh, is this that M++ thing? 15:02:41 well, based on the same ideas, but not really 15:03:02 M++? 15:03:13 olsner, what's the language like?00:28:58 Hint: XHTML... 15:03:13 wat 15:03:14 this is like the fourth time I've started making something like that, but only this time it ended up as a compiler that can actually do anything 15:03:19 Phantom_Hoover: some thing olsner wrote two posts about on his blog then gave up on 15:03:25 *newline before 00:28:58 15:03:56 in particular, I've dropped all the "++" parts to make it easier to get somewhere 15:04:17 well, dropping the ++ part from C++ gives you a vastly superior language 15:04:19 so good idea 15:04:29 What's wrong with ++? 15:04:31 olsner: make sure to stray far away from D territory; it is a failure and an abomination, so don't repeat it. 15:04:36 Phantom_Hoover: C++ is an abhorrent language 15:04:58 Oh, you weren't expressing some strange dislike for the post- and pre-decrement operators. 15:04:59 02:30:38 Gregor: HackEgo is seriously broken, unless you've just fixed it. 15:04:59 02:30:40 --- join: KingOfKarlsruhe (~nice@p5B14D8B0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #esoteric 15:04:59 02:30:47 oerjan: It reset because I fixed it. 15:05:02 YAY SEXY TIME 15:05:12 Someone find the `addquotes we've done in the meantime 15:05:27 aha, where did D go in particular that was bad? 15:05:50 Googling "M++" gives something weird which seems to involve both Unix and sharks. 15:06:58 Wait, isn't C a subset of C++? In the sense that a valid C program is also a valid C++ program? 15:07:14 only *almost* 15:07:36 I mean, there's some mad stuff, like references. 15:09:56 Anyway, is there a link to a spec, olsner? 15:09:56 well, in terms of the sets of valid programs, there are many valid C programs that are not valid in C++ 15:10:55 nah, not really, but I might write one eventually :) 15:11:05 Example code? 15:13:41 02:34:00 oerjan: The office next to mine had "THE BRO-OFFICE" written on the whiteboard. So I modified it into "THE BROÖFFICE". Thinking of the diaresis mark as an umlaut made me consider finding the closest German analogue for that phrase and replacing it, but then I got lazy :P 15:13:50 I love diaereses <3 15:13:54 aha, where did D go in particular that was bad? 15:13:56 Everywhere. 15:14:09 Phantom_Hoover: e.g. int *x = malloc(butt) 15:14:18 Wait, what? 15:14:26 Phantom_Hoover: no implicit casting from void * in C++ 15:14:26 What is butt? 15:14:29 anything 15:14:40 olsner: It tries to be everything: it has (specified) laziness, closures, templates that border on macros, ... 15:14:59 olsner: In being all this, the actual underlying C++-esque language is very drab and boring without much insightful design; the rest is simply heaped on. 15:15:21 Heaping stuff on is a respected design principle! 15:15:28 olsner: There's also the fact that getting the toolchains to work is actually the hardest thing to do in the language -- and of any language -- but that's not about the language. 15:15:36 Albert Einstein himself praised its simplicity! 15:16:10 (Seriously: To get the latest-stuff-that-actually-works, you have to compile LLVM yourself, then fiddle with CMake settings endlessly, then run the right script to compile Tango, make sure you don't specify D2, sometimes you have to do this in seperate stages, and /then/ you have to manually install the files.) 15:16:14 (And even then it only works sometimes.) 15:17:14 02:40:22 Why are old languages always hideous? 15:17:16 Lisp is not hideous. 15:17:24 And Lisp is one of THE oldest languages. 15:17:31 What predates it... hmm, Fortran. That's about it. 15:17:47 Lisp is an exception. 15:17:56 Phantom_Hoover: Algol isn't so ugly. 15:17:56 alise: Or, you can download the Tango bundle and untar it. :-P 15:18:17 example code (BF interpreter): http://paste.cplusplus.se/paste.php?id=11910 15:18:17 Phantom_Hoover: Also, Pascal isn't so ugly. 15:18:25 The thing that gets me is mainly the p 15:18:27 Phantom_Hoover: Basically: Lisp, and anything Niklaus Wirth touched, isn't ugly. 15:18:37 POINTLESS ALL CAPS 15:18:43 You also haven't had to compile LLVM yourself since LLVM 2.6. 15:18:52 THAT WAS NOT POINTLESS; THAT WAS A SIDE-EFFECT OF LIMITATIONS OF THE CHARACTER SETS BACK THEN. 15:19:00 Deewiant: Okay then: it USED to be flaming death, now it's just partly flaming death. 15:19:13 IT'S STILL UGLY. 15:19:27 At any point in time since, I don't know, 2008 maybe, there have been Tango bundles. 15:19:47 Phantom_Hoover: WELL, NOT EVERY LANGUAGE DID THAT. INDEED ALGOL 68, BLOATED BEAST THAT IT WAS, DEFINED THINGS ABSTRACTLY WITH UNDERLINES AND LOWERCASE TEXT -- AND SPECIFIED THAT IMPLEMENTERS MUST MAKE THIS WORK; THE MOST COMMON STRATEGY WAS UPPERCASE + PUNCTUATION MARKS. 15:19:59 (YOU COULD USE RESERVED WORDS AS VARIABLE NAMES BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE SET AS VARIABLES, NOT AS UNDERLINED KEYWORDS.) 15:20:08 Deewiant: But binaries are meh :P 15:20:29 alise: If you insist on building from source, don't be surprised if it gets tricky. :-P 15:20:55 I'll just let pikhq continue this debate, he hates the D toolchain mess even more than me 15:21:03 pikhq pikhq pikhq (if you call his name thrice he appears) 15:22:18 How much of a mess you end up in depends mostly on the project you want to build, I suppose 15:22:19 How inefficient. 15:22:31 If you're just starting to code something it's not at all bad. 15:22:34 He should try to get it down to at most 2. 15:23:52 Has E been invented? 15:24:14 I'm pretty sure there's a language called E. 15:24:15 Dammit, yes. 15:24:17 Yes. 15:24:22 It's a capability-based language thing. Quite nice. 15:24:25 And F... 15:24:27 There's only a few letters that haven't been taken. 15:24:46 H? 15:25:28 Damn. 15:25:35 Hmm... 15:25:43 What about ß? 15:26:06 Bonus points because people will confuse it with B. 15:26:44 A G H I N O P X 15:26:54 Based on some quick Google-checking. 15:27:09 Ooh, X seems nice. 15:27:35 There's X++, but not X. :-P 15:29:07 Is X++-- sensible? 15:29:11 Dibs on the entire greek alphabet 15:29:15 Or --X++? 15:29:31 Dibs on Cyrillic! 15:29:31 alise: Lambda's taken :-P 15:29:50 And all Asian scripts. 15:30:03 And various scripts for conlangs. 15:30:39 the greek alphabet is great because literally every single character is pretty except capital xi 15:30:59 Wait, can I have capital xi? 15:31:23 Ξ 15:31:26 Do you really want it? 15:31:32 Hmm. 15:31:33 I don't know, I think capital omicron is a bit boring 15:31:51 I'll give you the Kanji for lowercase xi and zeta. 15:32:03 Absolutely not. 15:32:05 Zeta is beautiful. 15:32:13 Deewiant: Boring, perhaps, but not inelegant. 15:32:14 OK, just lowercase xi. 15:32:28 Uppercase xi has a certain charm when serif. 15:32:29 "The upper-case letter of omicron (O) was originally used as a symbol for Big O notation," 15:32:32 Like you'd notice that. 15:32:36 Phantom_Hoover: Definitely not lowercase Xi. 15:32:41 You know what? These letters aren't for sale. 15:32:41 It's serious business. 15:32:45 You can't sell dibs. 15:32:47 alise: I don't find it particularly pretty. 15:32:50 Swapsies? 15:33:10 Deewiant: Okay, then: Every other letter. And don't say "not the uppercase ones that are equivalent to Latin ones" because they're only boring because they're familiar. 15:33:16 Hmm, I also call the Talking Leaves. 15:33:18 And Greek text, in general, looks gorgeous. 15:33:27 alise: I wasn't going to. 15:34:12 Can I have theta? 15:34:20 No. 15:34:28 okay this is interesting, when playing minesweeper, i can't simultaneously solve another problem EXCEPT if i do all the inference speaking out loud 15:34:45 I'll give you most of the conlangs. 15:35:01 so maybe natural languages do have some use 15:35:02 The only flaw of the greek alphabet is... that lowercase upsilon and nu are very slightly confusable? Dunno. 15:35:06 Not really. 15:35:10 or at least languages 15:35:23 Well... the way χ hangs below the baseline is strange. 15:35:50 It also represents a weird sound, at least in the IPA. 15:36:00 "the IPA"? You're strange. 15:36:10 Yes, I know. 15:36:10 Why's that strange? 15:36:30 http://scripts.sil.org/cms/sites/nrsi/media/Gentium_home_5.png i just want to stare at this all day 15:36:31 hmm, i wonder if i could solve a problem, watch a tv series and play minesweeper simultaneously 15:36:35 Deewiant: because IPA is usually treated as... a unit 15:36:42 And that's not a weird sound :-P 15:36:49 Incidentally, I call the obsolete Greek characters. 15:36:59 And stigma, heta and sho. 15:37:05 Someone set Euclid's Elements (at least the first book) in Gentium nicely and I will love them forever 15:37:14 Phantom_Hoover: Ah ah ah, I still consider them part of the Greek alphabet 15:37:18 I already called them. BITCH 15:37:21 Aaaalll mine 15:37:23 alise: "The IPA" is grammatically correct, "IPA" alone isn't. 15:37:37 I consider zeta outside the Greek alphabet, then. 15:37:44 Oh, wait. 15:37:46 Deewiant: I don't care, I also consider "ATM machine" acceptable for instance. 15:37:48 I know. 15:37:51 I don't read acronyms as their expansions :P 15:37:56 I call the modern Greek alphabet. 15:38:01 Phantom_Hoover: I already called it. 15:38:03 guys, no one cares about YOUR discussion, just join mine 15:38:04 Just get over it 15:38:08 alise: If you just don't care, then don't consider it "strange" to do it correctly :-P 15:38:20 OK, fine. 15:38:23 actually i don't care about either one -> 15:38:35 I own the constructed scripts, so I can just make up letters. 15:38:51 Deewiant: I believe it perfectly correct to consider acronyms as atomic objects, not their expansions. 15:39:17 Of course. 15:39:26 But "the IPA" isn't strange. 15:39:41 I sometimes read acronyms as their expansions, so I prefer the phrasing to be valid for that as well. 15:39:42 "IPA" is still in need of an article. 15:40:04 alise: what's ATM machine? 15:40:19 Automatic Teller Machine Machine. 15:40:23 okay 15:40:32 Why not just call it an AT machine? 15:40:42 Because it's called an ATM. 15:40:49 You have a totally superfluous syllable. 15:41:05 OK, so why add the machine to the end? 15:41:06 wasn't sure because alternating turing machine machine works too 15:42:08 (i know what the other atm is but i didn't know what it was short for) 15:42:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:43:18 [Quod Libet fails on me] 15:44:35 "Because he/she/it "... I'm not sure what "libet" means. 15:45:21 quodlibet means "what pleases" 15:45:35 usually seen in "ex falso quodlibet", "from falsehood, follows what pleases" 15:45:42 I fail at Latin, I think. 15:45:49 as do I 15:45:53 anyway Quod Libet is just a music player. 15:46:01 I shouldn't fail at it, since I have done EXAMS. 15:46:21 So, guys, I need a suggestion for an audio library thing to play various audio formats programmatically. 15:46:31 Not GStreamer; GObject crap and iirc it's not gapless or something if you play multiple files. 15:46:38 Not Xine; Xine is shit. 15:46:39 Perhaps libvlc? 15:46:42 well if you fail at exams, you fail at the subject, if you pass the exams, either you don't fail at the subjects or the exams fail at the subject 15:46:51 Anyone used it? Apparently ffmpeg has an example that uses SDL to do the actual audio but ffmpeg to decode? 15:47:16 Real programmers don't listen to music. 15:47:31 The hum of the cooling fan is music to their ears. 15:47:38 By "various audio formats" I guess you mean "typical audio formats" 15:47:47 What if they're silent PC obsessives and their cooling fan is inaudible? 15:48:06 Then they enjoy the silence. 15:48:06 Deewiant: FLAC, Vorbis, MP3 (it's okay if you have to enable some silly switch), AAC at least 15:48:23 Aye, so typical. 15:48:30 Yes. 15:48:43 I wish to write a music server, you see. 15:48:52 MPD and XMMS2 have the flaw that I didn't write them. 15:48:55 How does it serve music? 15:49:05 You people and your NIH syndromes. 15:49:33 Expand NIH. 15:49:40 Not Invented Here. 15:49:58 Ah. 15:50:32 Phantom_Hoover: A music server is a server that handles playing various subsets of a collection of music, while clients provide the interface and other functionality. 15:50:46 Ah. 15:50:57 For instance, something that scrobbles played tracks to last.fm would be its own little daemon that connects to the music server, sets up a hook for the NewTrackStartedPlaying event or similar, and sends the info, while another client handles the actual user interaction. 15:51:05 Or you could have a command that works like "music stop", "music skip", etc. 15:51:13 (And Deewiant: yes, I'm aware you should wait until half-way to scrobble a track) 15:51:15 *track.) 15:51:20 Why separate the server and the client if it's for personal use? 15:51:36 You can connect to it from different machines (more) conveniently. 15:51:43 Deewiant: Not for me, that's not my reason. 15:52:09 Greater extensibility: I may want to say "music skip" even if I normally use another client; the Unix philosophy is better, one tool for one job, and this enables it (see e.g. the last.fm client); if I'm going to write something, I should write it correctly, and the GUI should not be bundled with the actual player; 15:52:18 and it allows usage across different desktop environments and so on. 15:52:26 Plus if the GUI app crashes or has some problem it doesn't interrupt your music. 15:53:06 So the server deals with actually getting the music out of the speakers? 15:53:55 The server streams to the client, which gets it out of the speakers. 15:53:58 WTF, OSSv4 devices appear to have disappeared. 15:54:07 Deewiant: Er... no. 15:54:21 Deewiant: Are you sure you know how XMMS2/MPD work? Because it's not like that. 15:54:38 Right, I'm confusing it with shoutcast and whatever. 15:54:59 I know pretty much nothing of how they work. 15:55:05 Phantom_Hoover: The server handles maintaining the collection of the music including parsing out their tags, etc., maintaining playlists -- including, say, ones done programatically based on some tags or whatnot -- and getting out of the speakers. 15:55:15 My suggestion: get an instrument that you can play with your feet. 15:55:33 In turn, clients handle displaying what song is playing, letting the user change the song from a nice list, showing an interface to create and view playlists, setting modes like shuffle, etc., and also non-UI clients handle things like interfacing with last.fm and the like. 15:56:55 You may also benefit from getting an application that automatically scrolls music across the screen. 15:57:08 How on earth has OSS just disappeared... 15:57:09 Then learn to decouple your eyes and multitask. 15:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: Your suggestion is rubbish. 15:57:34 Tada! You can now look like a complete idiot while listening to music. 15:57:41 My issues with music players are mostly the supported file formats, so I don't much know or care about most of the other features. 15:57:46 True, but it must be funny to watch. 15:58:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:59:23 Deewiant: Heh, what do you use? MPC? WavPack? ...TAK?! 15:59:42 Wow, you might actually use Musepack. 15:59:47 That's a scary thought. 16:00:10 I have a count from late 2007 here: only one .mpc. 16:00:14 mp3PRO :P 16:00:22 Deewiant: What, then? .mid? 16:00:23 It's mostly modules and the like. 16:00:36 RealAudio? 16:00:37 Right. 16:00:55 I see midis and modules and the like as separate from actual audio wave files, so I don't particularly care about supporting them. 16:01:00 That's fileformatist, sure, but I don't really care. 16:01:00 .mid, .mod, .s3m, .xm, .it, .gbs, .psf, .snd, .sndh, .ay, .gym, .sap, .sid, .mtm, .spc, ... off the top of my head. 16:01:36 Holy shit, they made a new Musepack release. 16:01:38 I want to listen to them, so I don't care what I "see them as", just that they work :-P 16:01:52 Deewiant: It's not like you'd ever use software I wrote, anyway. 16:02:03 It's not like you ever finish anything, anyway. 16:02:09 -!- jabb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:02:53 Deewiant: I'm deeply offended. 16:03:15 -!- softmoon has joined. 16:03:39 02:55:43 ais523: "There exists a function UTM_P: UTM -> P such that interp_P(UTM_P(x)) = UTM(x) for all x" 16:03:39 02:56:10 the function needs to be computable, otherwise you get almost everything 16:03:39 02:56:25 also you may need a postprocessing function as well 16:03:39 yes, true 16:03:43 .ym is hard to find a player for. 16:03:43 I was considering something like 16:03:58 Or easy to find, but it seems a bit random. 16:04:34 interp_P(UTM_P(x)) -out-> {halts_with(o) => interp_UTM(x) == halts_with(UTM_P_post(o)); hangs => hangs } 16:04:35 Or something. 16:04:40 Deewiant: .ym? 16:04:41 Too bad I have around 400 of them. 16:05:26 03:26:38 A police state is a state with police in it. 16:05:26 03:26:43 The only true freedom is anarchy. 16:05:26 03:26:44 :P 16:05:26 03:27:32 Gregor: it is not particularly wise to define police state in such a way that almost all people would prefer to live in one 16:05:26 not "almost all" 16:05:37 .ym is ST-Sound's file format. 16:06:27 Mostly for Atari stuff, AFAIK. 16:06:27 alise: do you mean almost all = all for sensible measures of finite populations 16:06:32 Deewiant: Well, that ... helps 16:06:42 oklopol: no, I'm not a pedantic asshole like that 16:06:49 alise: http://leonard.oxg.free.fr/stsound.html 16:06:49 i'm a different kind of pedantic asshole 16:06:55 oklopol: I just meant that there are quite a few anarchists around. 16:07:01 hell, even in this channel 16:07:11 Deewiant: you're crazy 16:07:26 alise: i know 16:08:03 05:03:41 ....none 16:08:04 05:03:56 .. 16:08:04 05:04:03 * CakeProphet is very tired and baked? 16:08:04 05:09:38 baked? 16:08:04 I THINK HE MIGHT BE REFERRING TO DRUGS 16:08:42 alise: I listen to esoteric stuff :-P 16:09:23 -!- softmoon has left (?). 16:09:26 so phantom hoover is a hoover that's also a phantom, and cake prophet is a cake that's also a prophet, have i somehow seriously misunderstood how compounds are usually constructed 16:09:29 Or at least, have some esoteric stuff that I want to be able to listen to on demand. 16:10:21 So, anyone ever used libvlc? 16:11:08 * alise uninstalls OSS, returns to ALSA in despair 16:15:11 Deewiant: Back when I was a DOSist, I used to use Cubic Player, because of the Würfel Mode. 16:15:28 Würfel mode? 16:15:42 I don't remember what it was like, just the name. 16:15:46 heh 16:16:00 http://www.cubic.org/player/features.html "the only software on earth featuring Würfel Mode" 16:16:00 Something has gone awfully wrong. 16:16:05 Sound is... refusing to work. 16:16:13 Doesn't handle much; just the common mod formats, MIDI, and SID. 16:16:27 Oh, that feature list is a bit bigger than the one I was looking at. 16:16:45 Well, still not that much. 16:17:00 No, but I didn't/don't have very esoteric files. 16:17:21 There's no screenshot of Würfel Mode either. But it supported all VESA text modes, and I think my Matrox Mystique 220 card offered quite many of those. 16:17:22 My current plan is to go for http://xmp.sourceforge.net/ at some point. 16:19:43 oklopol: The "phantom" is an adjective. 16:19:54 While "cake" is not an adjective. 16:21:57 Deewiant: During a brief Windows time, I also used http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/DeliPlayer for a while -- it has a reasonably large format support, but I guess it's pretty dead and was windows-only anyway. 16:22:52 I might use that for the Amiga stuff if it were non-Windows. 16:25:43 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:25:58 There's that http://zakalwe.fi/uade/ too. 16:26:17 Zakalwe.fi? 16:26:20 Culture fans? 16:26:36 Yep. 16:28:21 -!- alise has joined. 16:28:27 I am unable to get sound working 16:30:31 Deewiant: Should I just install Arch? And why am I asking an Arch fanboy this? 16:31:42 Use Movitz. 16:32:01 You can feel superior to everyone. 16:32:10 Apart from Scheme users. 16:32:16 Or Reduceron users. 16:32:41 What machine-level Scheme implementation is there? 16:32:48 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:33:03 Your mom's 16:33:46 That makes no sense in this context. 16:33:54 Precisely 16:35:10 Actually, there is Schemix. 16:35:17 Use that. 16:35:35 I had plans for a Scheme OS once. Was going to use someone's little x86-sexp-assembler written in Scheme. 16:35:41 Was going to be called X-Scheme or something. 16:36:14 And it fell by the wayside, like so many of our dreams? 16:36:27 Yes. 16:36:44 Glad that I'm not the only one. 16:39:04 Also, I need to go on an epic journey across Scotland and over the Irish sea in about 10 minutes, for "work" "experience". 16:39:12 I MAY NOT RETURN. 16:40:40 alise: Hey, "fanboy" is a bit strong. 16:40:58 fizzie: Thanks for that UADE thing; I don't think I knew about that, before. 16:41:14 Deewiant: Fanboy isn't a very strong word :P 16:41:20 Fun fact: I have a NASA t-shirt with what seem like blatant mathematical errors on it.. 16:41:20 Deewiant: And you didn't answer my question! 16:41:31 Phantom_Hoover: your mother is a blatant mathematical error LOL LOL 16:41:39 Please tell me if your mother is actually dead that causes a lot of awkwardness for me here 16:42:02 How often does that happen? 16:42:19 Well, I know of two in here who talk a lot who fit that bill. 16:42:31 No, my mother is not dead. 16:43:12 Good to know! 16:43:16 Your mom is so fat she DIED. 16:43:22 "Yet!" 16:43:44 YOUR MOTHER IS SUCH A FAT WHORE, SHE DIED OF A PENIS INFECTION. ALSO, OBESITY. 16:43:45 fungot! 16:43:46 Phantom_Hoover: luxy has an abcd! krob! krob! krob! krob! 16:44:00 What style is he on...? 16:44:04 ^STYLE 16:44:06 ^style 16:44:07 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 16:44:14 fungot: luxy has an abcd! krob! 16:44:15 alise: plus one exception to that.) the service book. 16:44:24 * Phantom_Hoover hastily reads remaining webcomics from today 16:44:51 `addquote pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...] 16:44:52 alise: ( .)y(.) bbl. going to use apple hw then indents the s-expression following that. they are even more limited pre-scheme. 16:44:53 170| pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...] 16:44:57 `addquote alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia 16:44:58 alise: most people slow down while driving by accidents, most of which are themselves lists, then party on. 16:45:00 171| alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia 16:45:04 `addquote AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions 16:45:05 alise: standardizing on s-r _only_? surely someone must have cancelled. too bad it died ( or so it seemed. 16:45:07 172| AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions 16:45:08 Filling in the fungot-quote backlog :P 16:45:19 `addquote AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. 16:45:21 fungquote! 16:45:21 173| AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. 16:45:39 He's sometimes a bit inconsiderate. 16:45:45 `addquote [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine 16:45:48 174| [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine 16:47:09 `addquote alise, marble marbelus 16:47:13 175| alise, marble marbelus 16:47:18 These are a bit chronologically distorted, but who cares 16:47:25 `addquote cmake is a nuclear powered waffle iron powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment and it burns one of the waffles and doesn't touch the other. 16:47:28 176| cmake is a nuclear powered waffle iron powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment and it burns one of the waffles and doesn't touch the other. 16:47:29 (coppro tried to quote that, not me) 16:47:48 alise: I figured that by calling me a fanboy you'd guessed my answer already 16:47:57 Deewiant: MAYBE I'M WRONG. 16:48:20 You probably aren't 16:48:59 Deewiant: Tell me, I can't take it any longer! 16:49:33 Yes, go ahead and install Arch, it'll make life easier :-P 16:50:12 Deewiant: Issue; my mother uses this computer sometimes. 16:50:35 So even better!! 16:50:49 You don't have to put up with parental invasion. 16:51:44 YES, but, this is the only half-shared computer 16:52:40 So, why are you caring about whether stuff works on that one ;-P 16:52:51 It's the only one unpacked and plugged in atm. 16:54:08 I have to go now AND I MAY NOT RETURN. 16:54:10 EVER. 16:54:13 AGAIN. 16:54:20 See ya 16:54:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:54:57 Deewiant: I need life advice ;_; like an antelope 16:57:27 Suggestion: get sound working 16:57:53 Deewiant: Tried & failed. 16:57:56 The mixer is just ... not there 16:58:17 Ask on # 16:58:42 Deewiant: Have you ever been in #ubuntu? 16:58:46 No? Count yourself lucky. 16:58:46 Nope 16:59:06 You repeat something fifty times, and still nobody's actual question is answered. 16:59:11 Just tiny irrelevant ones that aren't even vaguely technical. 16:59:20 (If you just say it ONE time, then it disappears into the backlog in about 2 seconds.) 17:03:55 Deewiant: Which is probably a reason to switch to Arch, really. 17:04:02 :-) 17:04:59 Yes, go ahead and install Arch, it'll make life easier :-P <-- but you have to edit some text config files at least once. I'm not sure alise is that type 17:05:19 Hey, I am perfectly capable of editing textual configuration files. 17:05:20 well I'm sure he could do it, but I also suspect he wouldn't like it 17:05:29 alise, yes but you don't want to, right? 17:05:51 It's not my fault that "Linuxtarded just-make-it-work idiot" and "incredibly ultra-genius visionary post-configuration post-object-oriented metasystem enthusiast" are so easily confusable when presented with Linux :-P 17:06:05 (Not just genius, INCREDIBLY ULTRA-genius) 17:06:26 alise, because at end of install you will get a menu to edit some system config files, you probably need to set time zone and a few misc things at least. Oh and you need to add the init scripts to start by using a config file that lists them, In the order you want XD 17:07:14 I've installed Arch before. 17:07:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:07:30 there are two things that annoys me with arch linux: 1) init script system is rather limited 2) no debug symbol packages (yet, and this has been planed for a looong time) 17:07:32 The bit I don't like is that configuration thing that you have to re-combine the kernel or whatever to take effect. 17:07:35 It has modules and stuff in it. 17:07:41 I can never decide what to put in it first time! 17:07:46 alise, you mean re-generate initramfs? 17:07:50 yeah 17:08:04 alise, ubuntu does that too. 17:08:10 (1) doesn't bother me, my init needs are very minimal and (2) so how do you debug programs effectively? 17:09:02 (2) only applies if you're debugging a system library 17:09:11 right 17:09:12 Maybe if you don't like it, change it? 17:09:13 alise, well, (2) by building a custom glibc that installs debug symbols, that is what I need for my debugging currently. Don't really need debug symbols for all the other stuff 17:09:34 Well, my only problem with Arch is that (1) it sucks, like all software and (2) I don't think my mother would appreciate using it 17:09:35 Deewiant, debug symbols for glibc is increadibly useful for any debugging. 17:09:44 incredibly* 17:09:48 If you say so 17:09:59 I've yet to even feel the need for debuggers typically :-P 17:10:14 alise: (1) doesn't really count 17:10:27 Deewiant, yesterday I tried another one, debugging over IR. Embedded systems are quite interesting to debug sometimes... 17:10:29 Well, it sucks to initially set up moreso than Ubuntu, then 17:10:37 basically printf but sending messages over ir 17:10:50 however, it turned out to solve the issue, due to the extra delay that printf over IR caused XD 17:11:23 oh to hell with it, I'll just buy my mother a portable solitaire device 17:11:29 alise, I'm quite sure your DAEMONS array will be nothing like mine, but in case it helps: 17:11:36 DAEMONS=(syslog-ng @sensors @gpm @smartd @alsa network @iptables @ntpd @aiccu @sshd @hal crond @ddclient @ip6tables @denyhosts @postfix @mdadm @cpufreq) 17:11:38 actually, maybe I'll just get her an iPad, it would satisfy like 110% of everything she wants to do with a computer :-P 17:11:48 it has solitaire, email, and the web 17:11:52 I have been on #ubuntu channel, but only for one thing, to ask about autorun DVDs in Ubuntu, so that I can do Quality Control testing. (Please note all the computers already have Ubuntu installed (it has nothing to do with me), I just needed to add a program.) 17:11:55 alise, she = ? 17:11:58 AnMaster: @ = not? 17:12:00 AnMaster: she = mother 17:12:04 this is the semi-shared computer 17:12:19 DAEMONS=(syslog-ng fix-mtrr @network @irqbalance !netfs @crond arch32 @alsa @hal @cups @sshd @openntpd @inadyn) 17:13:01 Could actually remove that !netfs 17:13:02 alise, @ = "in background" 17:13:23 But ALSA is lame :< 17:13:36 AnMaster: I thought you hated HAL? 17:13:44 I wonder if that even does anything for me 17:13:48 Probably not 17:13:56 Why not load syslog-ng in background :P 17:14:09 alise, yes but things doesn't work without it 17:14:21 I never read system logs anyway :D 17:14:24 I'll make it !alsa for now 17:14:25 alise, as for syslog-ng, I don't want to miss out on early errors 17:14:29 in case stuff goes wrong 17:14:34 Deewiant: heh; what do you use instead of alsa? 17:14:39 Pulse 17:14:39 ossv3? :-D 17:14:40 Deewiant, doesn't alsa just restore mixer levels? 17:14:42 Deewiant: Erm... 17:14:43 iirc 17:14:46 Deewiant: Pulse uses ALSA. 17:14:50 Deewiant: It's a layer over ALSA. 17:14:52 Deewiant: Or OSS, I think. 17:14:57 It's a layer over a million things 17:15:03 Deewiant: What do you layer it over then...? 17:15:03 But yes, that just restores the mixer levels 17:15:13 I don't know, whatever it does by default I guess 17:15:16 Probably ALSA 17:15:17 Methinks I'll use pekwm 17:15:22 Plus gnome-tray or something 17:15:26 Well, gnome-panel 17:15:37 Or maybe XFCE's panel 17:16:13 Deewiant, you probably want alsa there then. Since otherwise channels start all muted iirc 17:16:34 THE POWAH OF OSSV4 17:16:49 AnMaster: I just stopped alsa and sound still works 17:17:41 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:17:42 Deewiant, stop != start 17:17:57 Err... yes? 17:17:58 stop just saves mixer levels to a file 17:18:03 start just loads them 17:18:08 afaik stop doesn't mute channels 17:18:24 Oh, so it doesn't, by default 17:19:13 Right, so it is necessary. 17:20:44 Deewiant, it isn't like it hogs system resources or anything 17:21:00 That doesn't mean it shouldn't be removed 17:21:18 Deewiant, it should be removed if you aren't using ALSA, but probably not otherwise 17:21:27 Exactly 17:21:34 unless you like messing with mixer controls at every boot 17:23:51 17:24:18 17:27:54 Which card games do you play? 17:30:08 Not many. 17:31:10 -!- lament has joined. 17:34:34 AnMaster: what options are good to enable on a filesystem again? noatime, what else? 17:34:46 nodiratime 17:34:52 ?? Doesn't noatime do that? 17:34:58 Dunno 17:35:07 * alise considers using JFS 17:35:13 Does Arch support JFS out of the box, I wonder? 17:35:33 JFS is <3 17:35:45 You mean the standard kernel in the core repository? Dunno. 17:35:56 Fast and reliable like XFS, "fsck" takes 2 seconds if there's an error and <1s if there's none, error recovery is very good, ... 17:36:22 Huh, apparently it's actually <1s for system failure, not 2s 17:36:48 "The JFS driver is built as a module in the standard Arch kernel packages." 17:37:01 So I just have to add "jfs" to one of those file things, right? 17:37:12 "one of those file things" :D 17:37:23 If you are using a generic Arch package for your kernel, you can simply append elevator=deadline to the kernel line in your /boot/grub/menu.lst The kernel entry would look something like: 17:37:24 noted 17:37:38 It is also possible to enable the Deadline I/O scheduler for specific devices by invoking the following command: 17:37:39 echo deadline > /sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler 17:37:40 doubly noted 17:38:14 That better than CFQ? 17:39:42 For JFS, yes. 17:39:47 Are you using JFS? 17:39:55 JFS+deadline outperforms all other Linux filesystems, IIRC. 17:39:55 Nope. 17:40:07 Then just keep using whatever. 17:40:25 Do you play? Bridge? Hearts? Poker? Solitaire? Gin Rummy? Pokemon Card? Tarot Card? 17:40:31 Hells yeah, Brain Fuck Scheduler is in AUR 17:40:37 zzo38: Solitaire is actually called Klondike. 17:40:40 I don't play any card game actively 17:41:01 alise: I meant solitaire games in general, I didn't mean Klondike solitaire specifically 17:41:06 Ah. 17:41:20 Tarot isn't a game, just a silly waste of time :-) 17:42:14 No, it is actually just a deck of cards. There are many kind of games that are played with them, however. (Most are trick-taking types, which were what tarot cards originally designed for; but now you can also play Gnostics (which also requires Icehouse pieces as well)) 17:43:13 Ah, I didn't realise. 17:44:50 Now, if I could make a deck like http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/screen/spider-tarot-cardset.png but larger and for printing, with numbers in both corners, and a book to go with it (describing various games (both soitaire and multiplayer), also possibly with a very brief appendix about "interpretations" of the "meanings" of cards and so on) 17:45:22 This is my preferred tarot deck although the one in the picture is only suitable for computer game 17:45:25 http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=32877 ;; con kolivas patchset kernel 17:46:10 I also like Uncarrot Tarot but it is not available anywhere and not compatible with standard tarot. Spider tarot is compatible with normal tarot, so the standard trick taking games can still be played with them. 17:46:21 Deewiant: https://lwn.net/Articles/244941/ noatime => nodiratime 17:47:32 (The problem is if the majors have to be given names, which is used in Gnostica (but you could just write down which number has which effect) 17:48:09 Do you like this deck? 17:48:18 Time to reboot, then. 17:48:41 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:48:56 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:50:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:51:43 I think I found another bug in ngIRCd, it doesn't log QUIT messages! 18:00:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:20:41 -!- kalise has joined. 18:20:49 fucking fuck fuck fucker fuckity 18:20:52 -!- kalise has changed nick to alise. 18:20:55 THE ARCH IS NO 18:21:07 It was doing its mkcpio thing after I configured it when I accidentally ^C'd the installer 18:21:13 Now it wants me to do it all over again just to do that part 18:21:23 Deewiant: AnMaster: HALP 18:21:45 So do it all over again. 18:21:53 Deewiant: But that's completely pointless, and slow. 18:22:03 So is accidentally ^C'ing stuff in the middle of installation. 18:22:14 I was trying to cancel one particular step. 18:22:16 ESC didn't work. 18:22:53 You don't have much of a choice here AFAIK :-P 18:23:08 Install manually or do it again. 18:23:22 Now it says that the filesystem is busy, ha ha ha 18:23:43 umount doesn't work. ha ha ha. 18:23:47 It says it's busy too; ha ha ha. 18:24:04 fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; 18:24:39 umount -f -l /dev/sdb1 18:24:41 >:3 18:24:56 Maybe start with fuser/lsof :-P 18:25:44 Why does it complain about having no separate /boot? 18:25:47 This is, like, 2012. 18:26:00 I dunno. I have a separate /boot. 18:26:03 Why? 18:26:16 LVM or sth? 18:26:27 So that I can't accidentally overwrite my grub.conf or kernel. 18:26:35 Other things I'm going to have to figure out before I reboot this thing: lilo! 18:26:44 grub technically can boot jfs but it's very unrecommended 18:26:47 so... lilo 18:27:09 lilo totally gets a bad rep :))) 18:27:18 Or... a separate /boot with a more palatable fs ;-P 18:27:28 JFS is perfectly palatable. And I don't like GRUB anyway. 18:27:33 Nothing wrong with lilo. 18:27:38 It's not the lilo that was around in the 90s :P 18:27:39 Palatable to GRUB, I obviously meant. 18:27:47 But yeah, doesn't matter. 18:27:53 "Oh no, I have to run lilo(1) when I update my kernel!" 18:28:09 arch installs sysvinit by default -- have they abandoned the bsd style init?! 18:28:16 Say it ain't so! 18:30:18 * alise uses /dev/sd[a-z][0-9]+ identifiers in fstab cuz he's a rebel 18:30:27 *she's; stupid self-inflicted nick pronouns 18:31:12 Anyone in here used pekwm? 18:32:45 I forgot how cool xdm is 18:33:29 what the heck is netfs anyway 18:36:20 * alise considers using xfwm 18:37:29 -!- lament has joined. 18:38:14 alas, i lament lament, a last lament, alas 18:38:58 alas, I lament, I lament lament, I lament, alas <-- palindrome 18:39:06 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 18:39:29 CakeProphet prophesises cakes 18:40:49 krade'tmar 18:41:27 t'keprophea'c 18:41:50 Deewiant: thanks for the helpful advice, it just installed the packages then failed and quit again 18:42:02 because it couldn't umount /mnt/proc which was apparently mounted 18:42:07 so i have to do it ALL. OVER. AGAIN 18:42:14 oasijfsgsoyshjhiohjhjopjoisjgirg 18:42:46 YH8998982Y3892Y321873Y12983Y89213Y98213 18:42:49 well time to reboot. 18:42:57 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:47:10 Deewiant: AnMaster: HALP <-- ? 18:48:27 bbl 18:59:52 -!- Oranjer has joined. 19:05:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:07:39 03:53:45 --- quit: oerjan (Quit: Later) 19:07:46 03:56:02 "hey wasn't it pretty lol when oerjan left" 19:08:16 alise: thanks for adding that quote 19:08:18 well if you find that quit message hilarious... 19:08:36 perhaps it means something funny in finnish 19:09:05 Baah, why is no-one interested in the TreeVM? 19:09:21 it's not really a very new idea 19:10:05 also, that is our _normal_ reaction to 90% of new esolangs. 19:11:33 although that may be because 90% of esolangs are just machine codes with slightly eclectic instruction sets 19:20:43 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:27:45 I wonder why Reduce[d == Norm[{a - b, c - d} + t*{v - u, x - y}], {t}] makes mathematica lock up 19:31:49 somewhat obvious, but I had to check: it begins to load in wolfram alpha, but then stops 19:31:58 never seen that before 19:38:52 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:39:18 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 19:41:17 Oranjer, I presume they kill queries after some fixed time limit 19:57:49 -!- jabb has joined. 19:57:57 :O 20:07:00 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 20:41:16 -!- tombom has joined. 20:58:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:31 Why does the HELP command in ngIRCd send ERR_NORECIPIENT_MSG if you put too many arguments? 21:06:06 i guess it just likes to argue. 21:06:59 what happens if you put your nick as the extra argument? 21:07:05 But shouldn't it be ERR_NEEDMOREPARAMS_MSG instead? Most commands do that if you put the wrong number of arguments 21:07:30 or perhaps as the first argument 21:07:36 oerjan: The same error. It sends that error if there are any arguments at all. (If there are no arguments, it lists the valid commands) 21:07:45 if( Req->argc > 0 ) return IRC_WriteStrClient( Client, ERR_NORECIPIENT_MSG, Client_ID( Client ), Req->command ); 21:07:49 oh 21:08:38 well, ERR_NEEDMOREPARAMS_MSG seems like it should only be used if you use too _few_ arguments 21:08:44 by the name 21:09:28 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:09:30 and most commands that take an argument take the recipient as the first one, so saying that it takes no recipient makes sort of sense 21:09:32 It does sound like it, but maybe in IRC it is the same message number 21:09:33 (iirc) 21:11:08 #define ERR_NORECIPIENT_MSG "411 %s :No recipient given (%s)" 21:11:18 huh 21:11:29 well that does sound wrong then 21:11:40 -!- alise has joined. 21:12:42 Anyways: I am adding in an additional function to the HELP command, which is that if it has exactly one argument, it will send a help topic message to the client. (With no arguments it will just list the valid commands the same way it already does) 21:12:45 [rejoins after being gone for a while, having previously had a long discussion about how to fix Xorg config] I don't suppose anyone has any more ideas, I tried everything before [etc.] [link to stupid "HOW TO ASK QUESTIONS ON IRC" guide] nazi: I was just asking the few people who'd talked about it before 21:12:55 That's not how it works What's not how what works? 21:13:04 Blah blah blah you must ask full detailed questions with output blah blah blah 21:13:09 IRC support sucks. 21:14:06 If you want proper support, consider Red Hat :-P 21:14:11 Deewiant: I don't suppose you use any PS/2 devices? 21:14:19 Sure, a keyboard. 21:14:24 Deewiant: HOW THE FUCK DO YOU MAKE X11 LIKE IT. 21:14:31 Magic? 21:14:35 I've tried evdev, non-evdev, every fucking thing, it only worked once and I was unable to reproduce it. 21:14:38 Didn't have to twiddle anything. 21:14:41 What the hell kind of magical settings do you have? 21:14:44 Oh, so no xorg.conf. 21:14:48 If only I were so lucky. 21:14:57 I do have a xorg.conf but it doesn't have my keyboard settings. 21:16:57 Do you have a ServerLayout section? 21:17:08 Probably. 21:17:24 I'm pretty sure I have all the graphics-related stuff there. 21:18:10 So you have InputDevice lines in that ServerLayout section, then? 21:18:25 No, I'm pretty sure I don't. 21:18:26 Aww, the Finnish word "pointti" is so cute! 21:18:41 Deewiant: Then... that cannot possibly work 21:18:58 `ls bin 21:18:59 Magic, like I said. :-P 21:19:00 ? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 21:19:13 `translatefromto fi en pointti 21:19:16 No output. 21:19:21 :( 21:19:43 oerjan: Colloquial loanword: "point" as in meaning 21:19:50 ah 21:20:03 alise: HAL does the stuff. 21:20:07 -!- alise has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:20:29 no:poeng, probably 21:21:12 Kaj said, "So I blogged (in Finnish) about people who want age limits on books. Somehow the comments section of this post managed to become a debate on climate change. Go figure." 21:21:46 Then Mauno said, "Jis eivät ryhtyneet maahanmuutosta väittelemään, on se jo saavutus," and Kaj said, ":D Pointti." 21:22:24 That's an extreme anglicism :-P 21:23:24 Now, what does what Mauno said mean? 21:23:34 s/Jis/Jos/ 21:23:53 My mistake. 21:24:02 `swedish Jos eivät ryhtyneet maahanmuutosta väittelemään, on se jo saavutus. 21:24:04 Jus ieefät ryhtyneet meehunmooootusta fäittelemään, oon se-a ju seefootoos. \ Bork Bork Bork! 21:24:27 "If they didn't start debating immigration, that's already an achievement" 21:24:36 Ah. :) 21:25:46 -!- chuck has joined. 21:27:46 Is there any documentation what the HackEgo commands do? (Usually I just always get "No output." regardless of anything) 21:29:07 `cat bin/creatures 21:29:08 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Look up what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/'"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 100 'Jump to:' | \ tail -n +3 | \ sed 's/ */ /g' 21:29:11 Voila. :P 21:29:30 Ask me and I can probably tell you. 21:29:55 uorygl: My question is all of them! 21:30:00 Okay. 21:30:05 `ls bin 21:30:06 ? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 21:30:19 Is there a FTP session for these files? 21:30:33 `cat bin/calc 21:30:34 I don't know what ? does, addquote adds a quote to the quotes database, calc tells Google to calculate something, commands probably does the same thing as ls bin, creatures looks something up on the Creatures Wiki... 21:30:34 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Calculate what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -m 1 '=' | sed 's/ \+/ /g' 21:30:43 `commands 21:30:45 ?, addquote, calc, commands, creatures, define, esolang, etymology, fortune, \ google, helpme, imdb, karma, marco, minifind, paste, ping, quote, rec, roll, \ runfor, sayhi, strfile, swedish, toutf8, translate, translatefromto, \ translateto, unstr, url, wolfram 21:30:51 `? 21:30:52 I like big butts and I cannot lie. You other brothers can not deny that when a girl comes in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face, you get sprung. 21:30:53 zzo38: note that HackEgo has been buggy for many days until today 21:31:05 `cat bin/? 21:31:07 #!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ cat ../help.txt 21:31:15 define looks up the definition of something somewhere, esolang looks something up on Esolang, etymology looks something up in the Online Etymology Dictionary, fortune... probably gives you a fortune cookie or something... 21:31:19 `fortune 21:31:21 Save gas, don't eat beans. 21:32:01 google does a Google search, helpme presumably does just that, imdb looks something up on IMDB, karma doesn't do much, I'm betting marco causes it to say "Polo", I don't know what minifind does, I think paste links to a pastebin... 21:32:06 `paste 21:32:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1595 21:32:20 `calc 2+2 21:32:22 No output. 21:32:32 Evidently `calc doesn't actually work. 21:32:33 `ls bin 21:32:35 ? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 21:32:38 `ping 21:32:39 pong 21:32:43 O, that is why it is broken 21:32:44 and the google lookup commands are probably all broken now :( 21:33:11 zzo38: um what? 21:33:14 I thought I just entered the command wrong 21:33:16 ping does that, quote gives you a random quote from the quotes file, I don't know what rec does, roll maybe rolls a die, I don't know what runfor does, sayhi is probably like marco and ping, I don't know what strfile does... 21:33:37 `google test 21:33:38 No output. 21:33:57 swedish translates something into mock Swedish, toutf8 translates some character encoding to UTF-8, translate and its brethren do nothing, I don't know what unstr does, I don't know what url does, wolfram looks something up on Wolfram Alpha. 21:34:02 `roll 1d6 21:34:04 1 21:34:12 `cat bin/roll 21:34:14 #!/bin/bash \ rolls="$*" \ if [ "$rolls" = "" ] ; then rolls="1d6" ; fi \ \ for i in $rolls \ do \ if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/null \ then \ rollc=`echo "$i" | sed 's/[dD].*//'` \ diesz=`echo "$i" | sed 's/.*[dD]//'` \ else \ rollc=1 \ diesz="$i" \ fi \ \ roll=0 21:34:18 zzo38: calc, google and translate* used to work via google lookup 21:34:26 `roll 1000d6 21:34:28 3556 21:34:29 `roll 1d6+2 21:34:30 7 21:34:33 `roll 1000000d6 21:34:34 -!- ws has joined. 21:34:47 `roll 1d6*2 21:34:48 but presumably it broke in one of google's redesigns 21:34:48 11 21:34:52 `roll 1d6-2 21:34:53 1 21:35:11 Heh, 1d6*2 rolled an odd number. 21:35:37 Yeah, dunno what it did there :-P 21:35:43 `roll 1000d6 21:35:45 3484 21:35:46 `roll 1000d6 21:35:48 3536 21:35:53 `roll 1000d6-2 21:35:55 2455 21:35:57 3497977 21:36:01 It's rolling a (6-2)-sided die. 21:36:09 Oh, it finally finished rolling 1000000d6. :P 21:36:11 Gah 21:36:17 `roll (1d6)+2 21:36:18 0 21:36:21 >_< 21:36:25 Great. :P 21:36:35 `cat bin/roll 21:36:37 #!/bin/bash \ rolls="$*" \ if [ "$rolls" = "" ] ; then rolls="1d6" ; fi \ \ for i in $rolls \ do \ if expr "$i" : ".*[dD].*" >& /dev/null \ then \ rollc=`echo "$i" | sed 's/[dD].*//'` \ diesz=`echo "$i" | sed 's/.*[dD]//'` \ else \ rollc=1 \ diesz="$i" \ fi \ \ roll=0 21:36:49 Great that it supports +-* but not in any useful way :-P 21:38:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:45:13 -!- Oranjer has joined. 21:48:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:56:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:06:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:16:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:15 -!- augur has joined. 22:18:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:50 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:26:52 -!- alise has joined. 22:26:57 It's working now. 22:27:04 OOH 22:27:08 * alise wonders whether to use XFCE, or to roll his own with pekwm + some panel 22:27:11 I REQUIRE OPINIONS 22:27:34 USE XFCE IT HAS MORE CAPS 22:28:06 it's actually Xfce 22:28:16 oh. boring. 22:29:25 xfce works fine but it's a bit... bloated and boring 22:29:50 * oerjan wonders if he should point out he has no clue, in case that weren't obvious 22:30:02 I'm waiting for someone else to talk :-) 22:30:13 good, good 22:31:59 zzo38: what's your opinion? 22:32:52 I'd give you an opinion, but I'm usually devoid of opinions 22:33:15 Hm, here's one: freeallegiance.org is a good game, even though it's Windows-only and has DRM-esque stuff 22:35:43 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 22:35:50 I cannot decide! 22:36:05 `roll 1d2 22:36:07 1 22:36:14 you didn't tell me what they represented! 22:36:19 darn 22:36:22 1 = roll my own 22:36:24 2 = use xfce 22:36:26 `roll 1d2 22:36:27 2 22:36:29 NO! 22:36:32 `roll 1d2 22:36:34 1 22:36:35 Okay! 22:36:45 It's a surprisigly good way to figure out what you want to do 22:36:53 roll your own, cursed by fate 22:36:57 Especially when you've already made your decision 22:37:00 roll a die for it; if you get a result and think "No!", you want the opposite 22:37:08 Deewiant: but sometimes I can't analyse myself to figure out which decision I really want 22:37:16 so I rely on the instinctive bad reaction to the choice I don't want to figure it out 22:37:21 Can't you just roll a hypothetical die instead? 22:37:32 no, for some reason that doesn't work because i know what i'm trying to do or something 22:37:42 1 = LambdaMOO 2=M*U*S*H 22:37:45 `roll 1d2 22:37:46 2 22:37:50 `roll 50d50 22:37:51 1431 22:37:52 No, I like coding LambdaMOO 22:37:54 didn't oklopol say something about this dice-rolling trick 22:37:55 `roll 1d1 22:37:56 1 22:37:57 `roll 1d1 22:37:57 `roll 1d2 22:37:59 2 22:38:01 `roll 2d1 22:38:03 ?? 22:38:03 2 22:38:04 `roll 2d1 22:38:06 2 22:38:07 xD 22:38:13 1 22:38:18 `roll 1000d2 22:38:19 1500 22:38:19 HackEgo is slow 22:38:20 `roll 1000d2 22:38:22 1513 22:38:25 `roll 1d0 22:38:26 No output. 22:38:36 * alise purges xfce. 22:38:36 `roll 0d1 22:38:37 0 22:38:38 purges I say! 22:38:39 mwahahahaha 22:38:50 i'd ask Deewiant for yet another one of his perfect opinions but he uses openbox or something 22:38:54 which i cannot forgive 22:38:59 `roll 1d-1 22:39:00 1 22:39:01 `roll 1d-1 22:39:02 1 22:39:04 `roll 1d-2 22:39:05 2 22:39:06 `roll 1d-2 22:39:07 aw 22:39:07 1 22:39:10 `roll 1d3 1d3 22:39:12 2 3 22:39:15 HackEgo probably doesn't use the cheat for large number of rolls that lambdabot uses 22:39:32 alise: I like that my opinions are perfect but unforgivable 22:39:33 `roll 8d2 1d256 22:39:34 11 65 22:39:35 (approximate with normal distribution) 22:39:35 oerjan: what cheat? 22:39:43 Deewiant: well your opinion on this matter (desktops) definitely is 22:39:51 `roll 8d2 1d256 22:39:53 12 105 22:39:54 `roll 8d2 1d256 22:39:56 12 226 22:39:57 (approximate with normal distribution) 22:39:59 wait it adds 22:40:07 `roll 50d2 1d100 22:40:08 73 59 22:40:12 `roll 50d2 1d100 22:40:13 78 70 22:40:14 `roll 50d2 1d100 22:40:16 80 48 22:40:17 `roll 50d2 1d100 22:40:18 82 10 22:40:21 `roll 50d2 1d100 22:40:22 73 21 22:40:24 `quote 22:40:26 144| it can be a good fursuit, but the good thing is that nobody can complain a fox doesn't have the right skin tone 22:40:29 `quote 22:40:31 No output. 22:40:32 `quote 22:40:37 uh - oh 22:40:39 No output. 22:40:40 Gregor!! 22:40:45 I broke it again 22:40:53 in pursuit of a fursuit 22:41:05 forsooth 22:41:07 fusuit of a fursuit: futile pursuit of a fursuit 22:41:33 so guys 22:41:34 wth is fusuit 22:41:37 window managers eh 22:41:40 oerjan: futile pursuit, duh! 22:41:45 ah 22:41:47 Openbox eh 22:41:57 I AM ASKING GUYS (WHICH IS YOU IF YOU IS NOT DEEWIANT) WHICH IS GOOD WINDOW MANAGER 22:42:14 ALSO NOT PIKHQ, HE'LL SUGGEST RAT POISON WHICH IS _BARBARIC_ 22:42:26 Barbaric? 22:42:32 KILLING RATS! 22:42:49 I'D USE http://www.jfc.org.uk/software/lwm.html, BUT LAST TIME I USED IT I REALISED I WASN'T HARDCORE ENOUGH TO USE IT 22:42:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:55 Like opening boxes? 22:43:11 YES, OPENING BOXES IS BASICALLY TANTAMOUNT TO GENOCIDE 22:43:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:43:28 alise, kwm 22:43:36 Kernel window manager? 22:43:41 What haven't they got in the kernel these days, eh?! 22:43:50 KDE? 22:43:51 I've never heard of kwm 22:44:00 no, that's kwin 22:44:02 * Sgeo_ meant whatever KDE uses 22:44:13 Googling KWM gives KDE-related results 22:44:21 kde has the disadvantage that kde sucks 22:44:27 * oerjan mentions xmonad just to find out why alise hates it 22:44:38 Because of people like me that assume that it should be kwm? 22:44:38 oerjan: the recompile-to-configure thing is stupid 22:44:48 and the actual haskell configuration part is stupid, it's not written very well 22:44:51 and i don't like tiling managers 22:44:53 http://wiki.debian.org/WindowManager calls it "KWin / Kwm" 22:44:57 and it's basically like a bloated, haskell version of dwm 22:46:22 ffff///////// 22:47:29 http://karmen.sourceforge.net/karmen-0.13-640x480.png reminds me os Mac OS 22:47:34 whoa -- that guy uses ed 22:47:35 that's impressive 22:47:54 Probably just for the screenshot ;-) 22:48:05 no, people like that tend to use ed 22:48:12 the uber-minimalist plan 9 folks 22:48:23 quite commendable in its insanity really 22:48:25 People actually /use/ it? 22:48:35 yes 22:48:51 ken thompson &co obviously used it for a long time, i think ken is using sam now though which is basically ed with a view of the file 22:48:55 I mean, I can understand using it on a terminal connected to something via a 300 baud modem, but sheesh 22:49:08 and several other folk used it 22:49:23 Deewiant: well ... it's not actually all that bad 22:49:43 i mean, it's very similar to ex, which is just the : vi commands... 22:49:52 so if you're good at using its commands to /view/ stuff you're set 22:50:08 I just think that "view of the file" is fairly crucial 22:50:31 Yes, well. We will never truly understand the enlightenment attained by those who code in merely ed. 22:50:37 I've used TECO before; that was fun. 22:50:43 Actually not so bad once you figure it out. 22:52:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 22:53:05 "Armed with these certainties, therefore, I embarked upon a spiritualist quest to write the perfect window manager. It has a lot of faults - more faults than features, probably - but goddammit the faults are perfect too. 22:53:09 " 22:53:14 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]). 22:53:17 "Addendum: This page, and wm2 itself, were written in 1996. Other window managers are better now than they were then, and I'm older and less zealous." 22:53:34 s/too\.\n"/too."/ 22:53:37 :-) 22:54:02 By the author of Rosegarden, it seems. 22:55:32 Deewiant: What's that awesome pacman replacement that uses aria2 so everything goes so fast you're left feeling a little sad that there wasn't more fun to be had? 22:55:43 And why do I turn every description into a sort of existentialist nightmare? 22:55:50 powerpill 22:55:51 Especially when I misuse the term "existentialist"? 22:55:54 I use clyde nowadays, though 22:55:59 What does clyde to 22:55:59 *do 22:56:04 Which doesn't have magic downloading but was otherwise nicer 22:56:04 And what is it with Archers and wrapping pacman 22:56:13 It doesn't wrap pacman, for a change 22:56:14 Deewiant: Yeah, well, some of us only have 8 megabit connections. 22:56:19 It just uses pacman's library 22:56:40 there's a LIBRARY and people still wrap it? 22:56:41 Its main advantage is search speed, IIRC 22:56:41 sheesh 22:56:42 brb 22:56:47 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:10:50 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:08 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:09 -!- tombom has joined. 23:13:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:21:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:22:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:29 -!- augur has joined. 23:29:07 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 23:30:52 Everyone else use different window-manager and package-manager, but I have to write my own window manager, and also write the Arcane Linux Package Manager, or "pm" for short ("pm" being the command you must type in to activate it). And "pm" has to take package data from standard input and then install it if -I is given, and so on. (If no arguments are given, it must accept package data from stdin and then do nothing with it.) 23:31:07 -!- alise has joined. 23:31:10 Ugh; most PekWM themes suck. 23:41:08 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 23:41:20 I NEED LIFE ADVICE. 23:44:29 * Sgeo_ may be the wrong person to ask 23:44:40 IT'S ACTUALLY WINDOW MANAGER ADVICE. 23:47:18 I don't know which window managers are best, or about the function of some window managers 23:47:42 Basically all I want is something with a titlebar and minimise/maximise/close buttons :-) 23:48:08 fvwm95? 23:49:06 fvwm is a bit arcane and complex; and the -95 portion just makes your computer look like Windows 95, so, uh, yeah. 23:49:23 pekwm is quite good, xfwm4 is quite good (but it's a bit too tied to xfce), ... 23:50:54 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:51:06 pekwm has some oddities though. the menu, for instance; i dislike menu-controlled WMs. 23:51:15 if someone just made an updated icewm that'd be great. 23:54:40 i have a feeling that if Deewiant didn't have a terrible opinion on this matter he'd have a great opinion :D 23:56:25 alise: lmfao 23:56:34 you come up with the greatest little aphorisms 23:56:45 Am I the only one who pronounces lmfao as limmfaaao? 23:56:54 Like "lympho", were that a word. 23:57:03 Wait, it is! Excellent. 23:57:10 Well, it's a prefix, at least. 23:57:11 lymphomaniac: a person who craves lymph nodes 23:57:31 or who secrets sebaceous fluid 23:57:32 one or the other 23:57:42 or both 23:57:44 ;) 23:58:19 so, mmaker thinks that the pacman package manager should be filed under Games -> Arcade 23:58:22 discuss 23:58:54 What is mmaker? 23:59:33 it's an (arch linux specific?) utility that generates a menu file for various window managers/task bars (for the "start"-imitation menu) based on installed packages 23:59:44 pacman is the arch linux package manager, but mmaker deduces that it must be the arcade game instead :-)