00:00:38 Okay fine back to medical talk. 00:00:55 nah, you managed to kill both subjects 00:01:02 :( 00:02:00 ais523: Do you have any other strangeness apart from that food stuff? In comparison I am very boring illness wise. 00:02:25 ehirdiphone: probably, but people tend to seem commonplace to themselves 00:02:33 I sometimes have trouble standing up 00:02:38 like I'm permanently drunk 00:02:45 XD 00:02:46 also, with apparently normal household obstacles like doors 00:02:49 I'm surprisingly bad with doors 00:03:08 Do you just... Walk into them? 00:03:24 normally it's taking multiple tries to open or close them 00:03:32 I can try three times to close a door, fail, and then look at it sadly for a while 00:03:59 I had my kidneys looked at with ultrasound a couple of days ago 00:04:12 ais523: I cracked up at the looking sadly bit 00:06:41 well, I was going for amusement value 00:06:44 Oh my god the euro symbol is the quake ii logo on its side 00:06:48 PANIC 00:07:39 That's probably my cue to sleep. 00:07:43 Bye guys. 00:07:47 Talk soon. 00:07:50 Bye ehirdiphone 00:07:52 ais523: Stop me if I'm going to far, but how does one fail to close a door? 00:07:54 by ehirdiphone 00:08:02 I'm going to far! 00:08:05 Also, UserFriendly did it 00:08:05 bye 00:08:11 coppro: by failing to push it hard enough 00:08:13 * ehirdiphone waits for the answer first 00:08:14 s/to/too/ s/by/bye/ 00:08:14 or sometimes, pushing it so hard it bounces 00:08:18 I think 00:08:18 ais523: XD 00:08:24 there isn't a lot that you can do wrong closing a door, but I manage it sometimes 00:08:37 ais523: oh. I was imagining silly things like getting your hand caught in it or something 00:08:42 *push* [swing] ... *push* 00:08:48 ehirdiphone: it's happened 00:09:06 failing to close a door can happen to anyone not familiar with the weight of the door in question 00:09:10 bonus points if after the first push, you're too far from the door to reach it and have to run back to it to try again 00:09:10 * Sgeo__ tends to always fidget with something in his hands 00:09:16 You're meant to walk it closed after you start pushing :P 00:09:32 ais523: I've done that! 00:09:33 Bye. 00:09:37 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info). 00:10:13 * Sgeo__ has locked himself in his room 00:10:20 The refrigerator in myself is quite tricky to close, actually 00:10:22 [Not now. In the past] 00:10:24 *my house 00:10:28 not sure where that came from 00:11:31 I once injured myself on a set of stairs by taking the turn where they changed direction too tightly and walking into the handrail 00:12:07 sounds something like what I'd do if I was being silly 00:12:46 also re: standing up. I think this is normal but I'm prone to bouts of dizziness from standing after sitting or lying down for a while (never in mornings, curiously enough). I've fallen from this before. 00:12:52 in my case, it was just not paying attention 00:12:58 coppro: oh, that is normal 00:13:06 it's to do with the blood distribution in the body 00:13:14 bad enough that you fall? 00:13:26 normally you can take a few steps to stay upright 00:13:29 or hold onto a wall or something 00:13:42 I must have looked hilariously stupid 00:14:56 The fridge door here is curious in that it is very difficult to open for about 5 seconds immediately after it has been closed, if it has been open for more than a second or two. 00:15:36 timelocked fridge? 00:15:50 Oo 00:15:53 It *feels* like some sort of pressure thing, but I don't really know how it happens. 00:16:42 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 00:16:47 Oh, hell; some two minutes more. 00:16:55 It does open if enough force is applied, but the amount of necessary pulling is a lot higher than the "ground state" of door-opening after it's been closed for a sufficient length of time. 00:17:05 my fridge has double doors; there's no pillar in the middle so they have a creative sliding seal on the left hand door, which means that if the right-hand door is closed, it requires significant force to close all the way. If the other door is open, or whenever closing said other door, a light tap will do 00:17:08 ehirdiphone: It's still all about doors here. 00:17:37 -!- Oranjer has joined. 00:23:13 brb 00:23:47 ooh, what about a 2-d esolang where the flow control is in the form of doors? 00:25:18 No. ais523 would just look at it sadly for a while. 00:25:39 lol 00:26:05 ooh, what if you had multiple IPs and you could decide what they did when confronted with a door? 00:26:17 A good reason to grow a beard: making it into an orphanage! 00:26:19 ehirdiphone: probably better to add it to the quotes file rather than parrot it in the channel forever 00:26:22 so the other aspect of flow control would be what a given IP does in a situation 00:26:26 ais523: Meh 00:26:32 We need a new unmemw 00:26:36 *unmemw 00:26:43 *unmemw 00:26:50 what is up with that correction? 00:26:59 WHY HAVE YOU LEARNED THAT WORD COMPUTER 00:27:01 my guess is you mean "unmeme", and your keyboard is incapable of typing it for some reason 00:27:03 WHY 00:27:23 it's an iphone; it has autospellcheck 00:27:34 ais523: I declined it's first correction accidentally so it's now convinced unmemw is a word. 00:27:44 Whereas unmeme is not. 00:27:50 surely there's some way to correct it? 00:27:55 Obviously there is 00:28:02 Yes, but... 00:28:13 It's so easy to forgit! 00:28:17 *forgit 00:28:22 *forgit 00:28:29 *forget or *forge it? 00:28:38 *fungus 00:28:41 *fondue 00:28:51 *famine 00:28:59 *felectric 00:29:08 *fbetternatethanlever 00:29:13 *forget 00:29:17 Finally! 00:29:20 lol 00:30:13 Bye for real now. Do not say anything of interest! 00:30:44 There's a common joke that would normally be inserted here, and I'm the sort that does it, but I won't. 00:30:45 Bye 00:30:56 What joke? 00:31:09 Look what you've done! 00:31:31 "anything of interest" literally? 00:31:36 Yes 00:31:43 TELL ME MUST KNOW THIRST ARGH 00:31:45 Okay bye 00:31:49 Although I guess I didn't say it. I'm shutting up now, bye. 00:31:57 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Quit: that's a long way to tip a rarie). 00:32:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 00:33:27 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 00:39:18 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:49:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:28:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has left (?). 01:28:35 -!- wareya has joined. 01:28:40 hello 01:29:30 I have a question 01:30:08 Have there ever been any "case based" programming languages? In the same way as spoken languages can be case based. 01:32:49 Does the case sensitivity of most modern languages count? 01:33:18 What about the different between an upper-cased and lower-cased name in Haskell? 01:34:29 other ML-likes are similar in that sensitivity 01:34:40 (like Erlang) 01:35:58 This is the best cut pizza I've had in a long time 01:37:51 AnMaster: I'm at an internship. I didn't bring all my hats. 01:53:25 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:53:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_case 01:53:30 This kind of case. 02:03:26 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 02:16:53 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 02:18:32 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:20:26 -!- charlls has joined. 02:21:31 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:34:32 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 02:34:42 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:42:31 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 02:44:08 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:47:01 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:48:59 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 03:00:01 -!- iamcal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:05:02 -!- Oranjer has joined. 03:20:13 -!- cal153 has joined. 03:42:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:43:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:27:48 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 05:11:26 -!- secretum has joined. 05:12:44 -!- secretum has quit (Client Quit). 05:16:11 -!- req has joined. 05:19:40 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 05:22:16 -!- req has left (?). 05:25:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:30:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:22:46 Holy shitnizzles. 06:22:59 *Youtube comments in Japanese are intelligent*. 06:31:30 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:32:04 -!- coppro has joined. 06:36:20 -!- cpressey has joined. 06:49:14 Well, that was fun. NOw I have to sleep 06:49:16 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:02:41 -!- tombom has joined. 07:52:10 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:00:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:11:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:14:55 -!- augur has joined. 08:17:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:54:37 * oerjan suspects Gregor and oklopol will enjoy http://i.imgur.com/WXNmF.jpg 08:57:35 oerjan: :D 09:03:35 someone on reddit was nice enough to record it: http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/i.imgur.com/WXNmF.jpg 09:04:54 * oerjan closes the tab just in time to avoid his brain creeping out 09:05:02 *crawling 09:05:16 it creeped out long ago 10:22:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:34:34 -!- MizardX has joined. 11:19:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null). 11:57:44 -!- hiato has joined. 13:22:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:31:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:32:00 -!- augur has joined. 13:35:38 * Phantom_Hoover decides to run FlightGear again. 13:35:43 I MAY NOT RETURN. 13:36:09 Pulseaudio and Compiz off... 13:36:19 Firefox closed... 13:36:45 Start fgrun... 13:37:02 Launch from EGPH... 13:37:13 PRAY. 13:38:51 It works! 13:43:12 AnMaster: I'm at an internship. I didn't bring all my hats. <-- you should have bought the pirate style one! 13:43:39 ;P 13:51:12 Hats...? 13:52:36 AnMaster: what's a silly furry love to say 13:52:45 answer: o mai 13:52:58 what's a silly buddhist furry robot love to say? 13:53:03 answer: om ai 13:53:06 :D 13:59:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:17:10 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:14 -!- coppro has joined. 14:50:11 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:00:31 -!- relet has joined. 15:00:32 augur, what? 15:01:36 augur, how does "furry" come into that? 15:01:58 "o mai" is a rather common thing for murry fur boys to say 15:02:15 murry? ;P 15:02:30 from that typo I conclude you are not using qwerty 15:02:45 (m is a long way from f) 15:19:52 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:34:03 Todo item that I'll never have time for: Hack Pidgin to fetch the log as far back as the last-seen message, and format it in the chat window. 15:49:51 cpressey, you use pidgin for irc? 15:50:05 No, I connect telepathically. 15:50:15 from what I heard it is quite horrible for irc. 15:50:24 It works. 15:50:28 compared to a "dedicated" irc client like irssi, xchat and so on 15:50:38 cpressey, hm how many channels are you on? Roughly 15:51:04 I think someone said it worked okayish for less than 10 channels or such. 15:51:21 Less than 10. Only one is IRC. 15:51:24 ah 15:55:07 Man... There are school libraries that have banned "The Chronicles of Narnia" under the belief that it's Satanic. 15:55:15 ... Never mind that Aslan is literally Jesus. 15:55:41 I found narnia overly religious. Especially the last book. 15:55:56 Yes, being religious was the damned point. 15:56:26 The first and last books more-so than the rest. 15:57:01 (lessee... The Gospel and the end of the world... Yeah, that's going to be a bit much.) 16:04:26 pikhq, the books in between however were quite okay. 16:04:51 Yeah. The religious analogs were still there, but significantly less so... 16:05:02 indeed 16:05:10 Making CS Lewis actually write well. :P 16:05:53 (he really is a decent writer when he's not hitting you over the head with a very thick hardcover Bible.) 16:05:59 btw, can Lewis be both first name and family name? 16:06:07 Yes. 16:06:14 that explains some stuff 16:06:29 Though it's more commonly spelt "Louis" as a first name. 16:06:46 (I think) 16:06:52 oh btw I recently noticed that strangely enough English doesn't have any adjective for "having a cold". 16:07:13 There's many individual words that English lacks. 16:07:24 pikhq, doesn't the author of Alice in Wonderland spell it Lewis or something like that? 16:07:26 We are really, really fond of making phrases. 16:07:33 Lewis Carol? Yeah. 16:07:38 BTW, that's a pen name. 16:07:45 ah yes that sounds familiar 16:08:24 Real name is Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. 16:08:45 hm English is rather poor when it comes to something like the Swedish concatenation "genomförkyld" (concatenation of "genom" [through] and "förkyld" [adjective for having a cold]) 16:09:06 Coldhaving 16:09:07 Bam. 16:09:10 XD 16:09:31 Though little *used*, English is quite capable of concatenating just like the other Germanic languages. 16:09:44 pikhq, but that doesn't express the "through" bit, which is used to indicate "having a bad cold" in this case 16:09:47 I blame the Normans. 16:10:22 it is used as a "strengthening" prefix I guess you could say 16:10:30 Badcoldhaving? 16:10:33 heh 16:10:40 sounds rather awkward though 16:10:52 Though it'd be more commonly written as something like bad-cold-having. 16:10:56 * Sgeo__ WTFs at Chrome slowing his computer down beyond all belief 16:11:16 pikhq, which sounds awkward as well, though it looks slightly less awkward 16:11:21 Not particularly. 16:11:42 "Not particularly" wrt. which part? sounding or looking? 16:11:49 Though you're most likely to just end up with a longer phrase... 16:11:51 Sounding. 16:11:53 ah 16:12:18 But, yeah. It'd probably be said more as "The x which has a bad cold". 16:12:34 Because English loves to make sentences longer. 16:12:44 pikhq, "Jag är genomförkyld" = "I am bad-cold-having"? 16:13:05 the former sounds perfectly normal for casual spoken Swedish. 16:13:21 the latter sounds like rather awkward English 16:13:21 Though *quite* awkward, it parses. 16:13:24 *Barely*. 16:13:56 I can only imagine that being used by someone who enjoys odd language constructs more than I, or someone making a joke of some sort. 16:14:04 Though I'm not sure how you could make a joke around that. 16:14:06 pikhq, yes but it does require the reader/listener to pause for a moment and figure out the answer to "wth was that?" 16:14:11 Yeah. 16:16:01 though I love the way you can add an extra e to some words in English to create new words. It is quite elegant. 16:16:27 err two e I guess I meant. 16:16:38 hm I guess you could say "talkee" 16:16:42 for someone listening? 16:16:44 pikhq, or? 16:16:47 Yes, one could. 16:16:57 Very odd for that word, though. 16:17:02 pikhq, well yes. 16:17:23 I think because there *exists* a commonly used noun to refer to the other end of that; "listener". 16:17:34 pikhq, but is a wonderful construct in English that is sadly underused. 16:17:49 It's very heavily used in legal English. 16:18:03 hm listenee would be someone talking then? :D 16:18:07 (talker that is) 16:18:10 Yes. 16:18:30 hm I guess I haven't read enough legal English 16:18:40 I recommend against it. 16:18:47 but if it is anything like legal Swedish... 16:19:12 Not because it's *hard* (it isn't once you get used to the specific phrasing used), but because it's *ugly*. 16:19:21 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:19:40 pikhq, was you here when I mentioned that unusually bureaucratic legal-Swedish way of writing "milk cow"? 16:19:43 err 16:19:45 were you* 16:19:51 No, don't think I was. 16:20:28 pikhq, ah, it was "grönfoderomvandlande mjölkproduktionsenhet", which in English would be "green fodder converting milk production unit" 16:20:29 BTW, mmm, remnants of grammatical constructs. 16:20:33 Ahahah. 16:20:43 It's not *quite* that bad in English. 16:21:25 "GreenFodderConvertingMilkProductionUnit" amuses me greatly, though. 16:21:40 (that sucker needs some camelCase) 16:23:00 pikhq, well, this was quite extreme for Swedish even. I heard about this from a journalist I knew (RIP). She said she read it in some report. She found the thing so strange that she called the one who wrote it and asked why. Apperently the person who wrote that phrase had been unable to understand that there was any issue with it... 16:23:24 pikhq, oh and it is two words in Swedish. Can't make it one. "GreenFodderConverting MilkProductionUnit" 16:23:41 well at least I can't think of a way to make it one word 16:23:49 The crazy thing about legal English is that it retains a *lot* from Law French. 16:24:08 (which was itself a bizarre hybrid of English, Norman French, Latin, and Greek...) 16:24:14 heh 16:24:15 Like? 16:24:21 Phantom_Hoover, ? 16:24:31 What sort of stuff? 16:24:32 -!- hiato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:25:34 Common use of -ee, -or, -er. 16:25:55 pikhq, -or? 16:26:11 and -er sounds quite normal? talker speaker listener? and so on 16:26:18 or do you mean in some other sense? 16:26:23 Not to the extent they use it. 16:26:41 Also, the main point is using -er and -ee to indicate a reciprocal relationship. 16:26:55 any example of -er use that sounds awkward? 16:26:59 or such 16:27:45 Hmm. Can't think of any ATM. 16:27:49 okay 16:28:00 and -or, would that be like in actor? 16:28:05 Yeah. 16:28:15 hm is that act as a verb or as a noun btw? 16:28:17 in actor I mean 16:28:30 There's also a very odd tendency to use French-order for adjectives. 16:29:01 And an incredible number of French loan words. 16:29:13 what? Like "a car red"? 16:29:29 The canonical example is "attorney general". 16:29:43 hm 16:29:45 (plural, that's "attornies general") 16:30:23 pikhq, would they use it outside fixed (possibly old) phrases like that? 16:30:40 Not generally. But there are a *lot* of such fixed phrases. 16:30:44 ah 16:31:06 pikhq, does this apply to both UK and US? 16:31:10 Yes. 16:31:13 hm 16:31:19 Law French is freaking *old*. 16:31:42 -!- hiato has joined. 16:31:44 -!- hiato_ has joined. 16:31:45 right 16:31:49 The differences between legal English in various English-speaking languages come down to differences in legal systems, not in manners of composing legal text. 16:32:07 -!- hiato_ has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:07 -!- hiato has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:15 ah 16:32:34 -!- hiato has joined. 16:32:51 Erm. 16:32:54 s/languages/countries/ 16:32:58 XD 16:33:23 Of course, most of those countries have only really been independent from the UK for a good 60 years or so. 16:34:54 yeah I expected US and possibly AU to have larger differences 16:35:40 About the only difference is that the UK still has laws in Law French on the books. 16:35:49 ... And actual Norman French, for that matter. 16:36:04 heh? 16:36:31 you would have expected them to have been replaced what with the long time spent as an enemy of France... 16:37:04 Yes, about since the Norman invasion which made them have Norman French and Law French on the books. 16:37:55 Of course, during the time that anyone cared *that* much, the aristocracy spoke French, and after that stopped, well, apathy doesn't make you replace laws. 16:42:25 mhm 16:43:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:50:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:51:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:51:23 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:08:06 -!- tombom has joined. 17:10:14 I'm really beginning to wonder whether using 32-bit Linux was a good idea. 17:10:47 Phantom_Hoover, well, if your CPU doesn't support 64-bit it is your best option 17:10:58 if it however does support it, then you should probably use 64-bit 17:11:10 since you can still run 32-bit apps just fine. 17:11:21 How do I tell whether it does? 17:11:34 grep flags /proc/cpuinfo 17:11:38 and post the output line 17:11:57 Phantom_Hoover, then I can tell you if you have it or not 17:12:35 * AnMaster waits 17:12:47 -!- hiato has changed nick to fifasuck. 17:12:54 flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm xsave lahf_lm 17:12:54 flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm xsave lahf_lm 17:13:04 ah there it comes, no need for twice though 17:13:13 dtes64 looks promising. 17:13:17 and yes you have "lm" in there (stands for long mode) 17:13:22 Phantom_Hoover, no clue what dtes64 is 17:13:30 but it is lm and lahf_lm you want to look for 17:13:42 though I never heard of any system with lm and lacking lahf_lm 17:13:55 Oh, now I really do regret it. 17:13:58 lahf_lm indicates that you can run 32-bit apps while in 64-bit mode 17:14:08 but afaik all x86_64 cpus allow that 17:14:24 Oh, god, how do I migrate now? 17:14:52 -!- fifasuck has quit (Quit: underflow). 17:14:55 With a can of gasoline and a flamethrower 17:15:32 I think flamethrowers are regulated in the UK. 17:15:37 But I don't see what's really wrong with it now, unless there is a 64-bit app you *need* to run? 17:15:37 Phantom_Hoover, I heard about people converting an existing install... It isn't something I would attempt myself. It involves having two userland versions side by side for a bit and having to manually call the dynamic linker... like /lib/ld-linux-x86-32.so.2 /bin/mv 17:15:40 and so on 17:15:44 so best bet is to reinstall 17:15:56 unless you want a challenge 17:16:35 I might reinstall over the weekend. 17:16:54 If it fails, I'll need the soul of your first-born child again. 17:17:14 Phantom_Hoover, personally I would rather play minesweeper on "large" setting while wearing a blindfold than trying to convert an existing 32-bit system without a reinstall. 17:17:27 cpressey: MOAR ADDRESS SPACE 17:18:06 Beh, who would ever need more than 640K? 17:18:08 AnMaster: Actually, static link a busybox before hand would work best. 17:18:26 cpressey, I must be ready for 2038. 17:18:28 cpressey, for x86_64, you have lots of advantages apart from the larger address space. Such as more registers, RIP relative addressing, NX, a less sucky base level for non-source-based distros. 17:18:31 and so on 17:18:45 Base level? 17:18:46 pikhq, probably 17:18:48 For that ultimate minesweeper experience 17:19:06 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:19:14 Phantom_Hoover, binary distros optimise for a Pentium Pro or a 486 for x86. 17:19:26 Phantom_Hoover, well, if you make a binary distro you have to compile for the least advanced CPU you want to support 17:19:27 Not a Pentium Pro MMX. Just a Pentium Pro. 17:19:33 since otherwise binaries won't run on the old ones 17:19:44 So the floating point unit used is the x87. 17:19:47 32-bit arch linux has i686 as the base 17:19:57 Yeah, that's a Pentium Pro. 17:20:23 some other distros has i586 or even older as the base. 17:20:27 With x86_64, you can assume the existence of SSE2. 17:20:44 possibly with a few libraries in multiple versions. Probably only for libc 17:21:15 Right, so I need to make an _enormous_ archive containing my home directory, then install? 17:21:21 Actually, the *really* speed-dependent stuff has code to detect CPU features and toggle through different versions of functions... 17:21:27 Phantom_Hoover, do you have your home dir on a separate partition? 17:21:36 Well. Speed-dependent stuff and anything written by Ulrich Drepper. 17:21:50 Phantom_Hoover, if so, then you could just select to use that and not reformat it I guess. 17:22:11 I don't think I do. 17:22:19 Again, how checketh I? 17:22:52 Plus, quite a lot of the stuff in my home dir would fall into at least one of the categories a) easy to replace b) binary and thus would probably benefit from being recompiled after such a switch anyway 17:23:05 for a it is mostly version control checkouts for various stuff 17:23:16 Phantom_Hoover, hm mount | grep /home? 17:23:23 Phantom_Hoover, without the question mark 17:23:33 "mount | grep /home" was the command bit as such 17:23:38 (without quotes of course) 17:23:50 for example that gives me: 17:23:52 $ mount | grep /home 17:23:52 /dev/mapper/array-home on /home type ext4 (rw,noatime) 17:23:55 Nope, just ~/.gvfs. 17:23:57 Damn. 17:24:17 Phantom_Hoover, well gvfs is some pseudo thingy that is related to gnome iirc 17:24:28 Yes, I know that. 17:24:41 never used it directly personally 17:24:45 it is just there 17:25:19 So I need to make a massive archive of ~, then put in on (preferably at least 2) flash drives, then reinstall? 17:25:28 And after that copy it across? 17:25:44 hm well I guess so. But how large is your home dir? 17:26:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:26:50 well, I recently grew mine from 25 GB to 50 GB so I guess large is not uncommon 17:26:55 -!- augur has joined. 17:26:58 grew the partition that is 17:27:28 Well, it's several GB at least. 17:27:31 (on the fly, I love lvm!) 17:27:49 Phantom_Hoover, hm. 17:28:03 Most of that is downloaded. 17:28:15 Phantom_Hoover, you could run "du -sh ~" but it might take some time, especially if it mostly consists of lots of small files, rather than fewer large ones 17:28:17 Although it would take quite a while to get some of it back. 17:28:58 AnMaster, doing that nos. 17:29:07 Dear god, it's worse than I thought. 17:29:10 26G. 17:29:14 that was fast 17:29:17 *Much* worse. 17:29:33 * Phantom_Hoover runs Disk Usage Analyser 17:29:36 I would expect disk seeking noise for about a minute while it recursively scanned the dir 17:29:56 but then maybe you have more of the "few large" variety of files 17:30:08 Yes, pretty much. 17:30:37 I have a few folders filled with huge files. 17:30:47 Burn a DVD-R? 17:31:05 OK, so 4.3G is virtual hard drives for VMs.. 17:31:06 du -sh ~/src takes 20 seconds or so. 2.1 GB 17:31:08 They can go. 17:31:16 lots and lots of small files there 17:31:44 Phantom_Hoover, no external harddrive? 17:31:45 how do you make your weekly backups then? 17:31:45 5G is Wine stuff. 17:31:46 That can probably go. 17:31:55 also why the heck am I having 13 seconds lag... 17:31:55 What the hell am I making backups of? 17:32:06 hm now it is gone... strange 17:32:11 Useful code? 17:32:16 You amuse me. 17:32:36 So... you have nothing worth backing up? Then just reinstall! 17:32:46 Phantom_Hoover, well, I have 1) RAID 1 2) backups (not offsite sadly, but if I had another site where I could store them then it would be off site!) 17:33:15 cpressey, nothing worth the trouble of buying an external drive, but I don't want to spend ages fixing things. 17:33:19 -!- sshc has joined. 17:33:52 Anyway, continuing. 17:33:58 Phantom_Hoover: I can see the "ugh, I have to set that all up again!" angle 17:34:13 4.2G is the Linux source. 17:34:18 That can definitely go. 17:34:23 Phantom_Hoover, let me see if I got this straight: 1) you don't want to spend ages fixing things after a controlled reinstall, where you can plan ahead to avoid deadlines. 2) you do not mind having to spend ages fixing things if you harddrive crash half an hour before an important deadline? 17:34:34 Deadlines? 17:34:38 What deadlines? 17:34:44 well, work? reports? 17:35:10 I don't know what you do but I would hate missing the deadline of an assignment due to a disk crash 17:35:10 I do not do such things on computers. 17:35:15 mhm 17:35:30 Phantom_Hoover, I guess you haven't had any programming assignments then. 17:35:45 plus I can't think of a better way to write a lab report than using latex :P 17:35:45 I don't actually do computing any more, so everything I do is effectively pointless. 17:35:57 There are tools out there to make setting up a machine the way you like it, easier, but they are generally primitive and they generally suck. 17:36:14 At least, IMo. If they solve problems, they aren't mine. 17:36:21 cpressey, eh? they write your .bashrc or what? 17:36:44 AnMaster: basically, install and configure packages, yes. 17:36:48 the ones i know of. 17:36:52 Hmm, 3.7G is FlightGear. 17:36:55 cpressey, I thought the package manager did that... 17:37:01 That might be tricky. 17:37:18 Phantom_Hoover, scenery? 17:37:22 No. 17:37:29 Aircraft, primarily. 17:37:30 AnMaster: It does it manually. These things use the package manager. 17:37:34 Phantom_Hoover, huh? Last I checked the data dir was about 2 GB 17:37:35 "puppet" is one 17:37:47 but then I haven't had time for flightgear for almost a year 17:38:09 The script I used to compile it used CVS to fetch the data, so it downloaded only the KSFO scenery, but *every* aircraft. 17:38:17 cpressey, distro specific I assume? 17:38:41 AnMaster: No idea. Just know the basics of it./ 17:38:44 Phantom_Hoover, the 2 GB was CVS as of about a year ago 17:39:25 Phantom_Hoover, btw what joystick/yoke do you use? 17:39:27 2.3G is aircraft. 17:40:57 2G is Electric Sheep, which can go. 17:41:22 I use Saitek x52 Pro :) 17:41:31 I don't actually have one. 17:41:41 ah 17:42:06 I have a friend who does, though. 17:42:19 Phantom_Hoover, that works fine for smaller aircrafts but I wouldn't want to touch an helicopter without joystick+throttle AND rudder pedals 17:42:36 I just don't touch helicopters. 17:42:49 I did get a Wii remote working as a joystick, though. 17:43:00 with those helicopters are merely insanely difficult. Without those it is impossible 17:43:20 though having a joystick with a spring makes it rather unsuited to helicopters 17:43:40 (The aforementioned friend actually flies in one of the Virtual Airlines) 17:44:01 Phantom_Hoover, I can't imagine a wii remote would work very well as a joystick? 17:44:23 It didn't really. 17:44:41 But it was something to do. 17:47:12 huh 2.6.34 haven't yet had any patch level release? how strange 17:54:25 Is it worth using 64-bit if I'm on a desktop? 17:55:10 probably 17:55:40 Or, indeed, a laptop. 17:57:32 Probably. 17:57:43 Compilers love having more registers. 17:58:45 kernel.org uses an invalid security certificate. 17:58:45 The certificate is only valid for *.kernel.org 17:58:47 wtf XD 17:58:51 Particularly with shared libraries... Not being able to address relative to the instruction pointer results in shared libraries having, what, 3 general purpose registers? 17:59:07 Right. 17:59:22 Phantom_Hoover: If you don't have deadlines, the question is IMO meaningless. 17:59:31 Deadlines? 17:59:45 Didn't you say that earlier? 17:59:56 Yes, but I fail to see the relevance. 18:00:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:00:38 Well, only you know why you even *have* a computer, so... 18:01:26 Ah, OK. 18:02:04 Assuming you get a kick out of playing with technology, rebuilding kernels or whatever, sure, 64-bit is yet another thing to play with... 18:02:31 Oh, wait. There's also esi and edi. 5 general purpose registers. 18:02:37 Compared with 14. 18:02:46 Oh, playing with technology. 18:02:50 I like that 18:02:51 . 18:03:02 Hats...? 18:03:32 http://choosemyhat.com/ 18:05:06 He reminds me of someone... 18:05:46 someone _here_ by any chance? 18:05:53 * oerjan cackles evilly 18:05:56 No, I mean in appearance. 18:06:05 He's obviously Gregor. 18:06:48 Well. Arguably, x86 has *0* general purpose registers. 18:06:55 well maybe i should check out the FBI most wanted list 18:07:28 pikhq, why? 18:07:41 It has an accumulator register, base register, counter register, data register, source index, destination index, stack pointer, and base pointer. 18:08:11 Does it matter? 18:08:25 Also, I agree with oerjan's proposal for an explosion register. 18:08:40 Various instructions implicitly use one register. 18:10:00 Oh, like loop. 18:10:10 Yes. 18:10:22 i regret to say that list has no one particularly resembling Gregor. 18:10:22 (And then there's Linux's annoying syscall practice) 18:10:52 well maybe that guy with the turban and beard could be him. 18:11:12 I want to *keep* my registers, thank you very much. 18:13:39 Hmm, once I've upgraded to 64-bit, how do I move my home folder over? 18:14:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:14:30 Phantom_Hoover: ... where do you plan to have it while you upgrade? 18:14:57 ...In ~? 18:15:03 Oh, wait, misread 18:15:31 Well, I was thinking of a flash drive, but there's almost certainly a better way. 18:15:54 Well, I think the filesystem itself is independent of the bittage of the software running from it. 18:16:08 So, if you could read it under 32-bit, you can read it under 64-bit. 18:16:10 Hmm? 18:16:13 Ah, yes. 18:16:29 But if something goes wrong... 18:16:43 -!- waga has joined. 18:16:58 hello 18:17:25 and a good day to you, sir 18:17:27 So you probably don't have to move it at all, unless you want to reformat the disk to make sure you get rid of all the old binaries. But if something goes wrong, yes. Anything worth keeping should be kept twice, in two different places :) 18:18:09 Wait, so it's just a matter of overwriting the conflicting files? 18:18:11 * waga loves 3code and has begun adding cool features to it 18:18:14 :) 18:18:24 Phantom_Hoover: Don't quote me on that, but yes, I think so. 18:18:33 The tricky part is running the software to do that, while you do that. 18:19:09 Phantom_Hoover, anyway you probably want to tar it up before putting it on flash. at least of the drive is FAT32. Otherwise you will get everything set to executable when copying it back 18:19:23 Booting from a 64-bit liveCD sounds like the easiest way to do that. 18:19:24 Yes. 18:19:32 Does anyone now a python online interpreter? 18:19:38 Tarring *everythin* will be a challenge, though. 18:19:56 I can 18:19:58 t 18:20:24 install python here because of the veery slow internet connection i have now 18:20:32 http://try-python.mired.org/ 18:20:33 anyone? 18:21:00 Does EgoBot do python? 18:21:28 Phantom_Hoover, why? tar -zcf home.tar.gz /home/ 18:21:31 Or try lua -- faster download over a slow connection ;) 18:21:39 thanks 18:22:00 AnMaster, as I mentioned, lots of files I don't need. 18:22:03 Phantom_Hoover, you probably want -p when unpacking (means "preserve premissions) 18:22:04 i want to do a brainfuck interpreter in 20 programming languages 18:22:08 s/)/")/ 18:22:11 And can't fit on a drive. 18:22:21 and i tought to star with those i know. 18:22:38 I almost finished the assembler written one. ^^ 18:23:11 Phantom_Hoover, iirc tar supports pausing when the tape drive indicates that the tape needs to be switched ;P 18:23:24 of course that rather depends on using tapes rather than flash memory 18:23:44 waga: oh, hm, was it you who copied all that 3code information to the wiki? i had to remove it, it's copyrighted 18:23:53 nope 18:24:00 ok then 18:24:23 oerjan, 3code? 18:24:28 i added some commands to 3code 18:25:00 how do you know if a text is copywrighted? 18:25:09 for example if i 18:25:25 add a text from a random website(eg: cnn) 18:25:35 how are you going to know? 18:25:46 i would think of googleing it 18:26:06 waga: if it _doesn't_ say otherwise, and is not very old, then it is copyrighted 18:26:42 yeah googling might help, in this case the copier said where it was from (and for that matter the link was already in the article) 18:26:59 but how do you get the original source? 18:27:54 well if i suspect nothing, and don't _think_ of googling it, then i obviously won't know 18:27:55 Google. 18:28:02 But Jesus knows. 18:28:11 ...? 18:28:23 cpressey: i don't think EgoBot has python, no. 18:28:30 !help languages 18:28:31 Whenever you violate copyright, Jesus knows. 18:28:32 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 18:28:33 what is egobot 18:28:46 waga: that 18:28:49 What is egobot? 18:28:50 `python 18:28:51 ok 18:28:54 but what it does 18:29:00 No output. 18:29:03 `ls 18:29:06 bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.22842 \ wunderbar_emporium 18:29:20 no python huh 18:29:24 nor ruby 18:29:27 but something called 'rail'... 18:29:31 `run python -c 'print "Hello, world!"' 18:29:32 Hello, world! 18:29:40 That works. 18:29:55 Although you're not going to get anything useful out of it 18:29:56 cat poetry.txt 18:30:08 i can buy perl being esoteric, but haskell? 18:30:10 waga: it does lots of interpreters, mainly, some ordinary and some esoteric, and some other programs - you can add programs written in the base languages 18:30:23 Is HackEgo the one that DCCs the output if it's too long? 18:30:30 `cat poetry.txt 18:30:31 A Poem -- Roses are red, violets are free. In Soviet Russia, you love me. 18:30:38 Phantom_Hoover: no, that's EgoBot 18:30:45 `cat poetry.txt 18:30:46 A Poem -- Roses are red, violets are free. In Soviet Russia, you love me. 18:30:52 HackEgo just puts // between lines iirc 18:30:53 cpressey, everything is esoteric if you knows nothing in the same paradigm 18:30:56 er, \ 18:31:18 AnMaster: is that why this channel is so rarely on-topic? 18:31:18 so, would `rm -r * work? 18:31:31 Measures are taken against that. 18:31:33 `pwd 18:31:34 /tmp/hackenv.23124 18:31:34 cpressey, could be. Never considered that before. 18:31:47 It's a temporary directory. 18:32:00 cpressey, I rather suspect it is that most in here have some problems with concentrating on anything specific for any length of time 18:32:15 You have mail in /var/spool/mail/ 18:32:20 $ alpine 18:32:25 Alpine finished -- Closed empty folder "INBOX" 18:32:33 no I didn't delete any mails 18:32:40 whatever gave the first message seems buggy 18:32:43 the shell isn't it? 18:32:44 `ls / 18:32:46 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr 18:32:52 `ls /home 18:32:53 hackbot 18:32:58 `ls /home/hackbo 18:32:59 No output. 18:32:59 `ls /home/hackbot 18:33:01 hackbot.hg 18:33:12 `dd 18:33:13 No output. 18:33:21 cpressey, it discards stderr 18:33:22 Oh, HackEgo is the one with the HG repository. 18:33:30 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg 18:33:31 `dd 2>&1 18:33:32 multibot_cmds 18:33:35 good bye 18:33:38 cya 18:33:42 No output. 18:33:45 -!- waga has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:33:49 cpressey, err ` is exec() iirc not system() 18:33:51 well 18:33:53 it isn't C iirc 18:33:56 but you get the idea 18:33:58 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds 18:33:59 slox 18:34:02 `run dd 2>&1 18:34:03 0+0 records in \ 0+0 records out \ 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 0.000109175 s, 0.0 kB/s 18:34:04 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/sloc 18:34:05 that might work 18:34:05 No output. 18:34:07 cpressey, ^ 18:34:18 the command `run uses the shell 18:34:24 while just ` doesn't 18:34:28 Ok, the unbelievably useful "run" command. 18:34:30 `run type run 18:34:31 No output. 18:34:33 hm 18:34:42 `run find . -name 'run' 18:34:43 No output. 18:34:48 hm it might be in the bot itself 18:35:01 `run echo $PATH 18:35:02 /tmp/hackenv.23684/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 18:35:10 `ls /usr/bin 18:35:11 2to3-2.6 \ X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ axi-cache \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug 18:35:19 `ls /usr/bin/run 18:35:20 No output. 18:35:29 `ls /usr/bin/apt-cache 18:35:30 /usr/bin/apt-cache 18:35:39 `ls /bin/run 18:35:40 No output. 18:36:14 Phantom_Hoover, it runs in a locked down chroot thingy. with nothing in the chroot at all, phash or something it is called. It loads a replacement for libc as LD_PRELOAD. And that library uses some pipe to talk to a server outside the chroot to do all the fs stuff 18:40:06 Ah. 18:40:12 A stunning deception. 18:41:18 Phantom_Hoover, very unlikely you are going to be able to mess up the system though 18:41:38 Who wrote the altered libc? 18:43:43 I think it's called PLASH? You can google it 18:45:25 cpressey, ah yes plash it was 18:54:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Reboot). 18:56:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:59:24 so that game where you have some pieces and you can jump over another piece and remove it and you want to eat everything except one piece 18:59:42 "eat" is probably a finnishm, sry 19:00:25 (although i'm pretty sure i might've used it even if it wasn't) 19:01:27 ...what's its name 19:02:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peg_solitaire 19:03:09 thank you 19:14:36 i like that game, you can get pretty far mentally, so it doesn't feel like search on small boards 19:15:50 * oklopol asks python 19:22:15 speaking of eating, there are highway restaurants here that have that game on every table, so you can play it while you wait for your food... :) 19:22:28 cooool 19:32:58 lol 19:33:03 how long did that take? 19:33:08 felt like an hour 19:33:29 since "* oklopol asks python" 19:33:32 -!- coppro has joined. 19:34:17 -!- alex2012 has joined. 19:34:26 hey people 19:34:28 :D 19:35:37 helllooooooo 19:35:44 alex2012? 19:35:49 oklopol: 17 minutes. hope this helps. 19:35:52 The number says it all, really. 19:35:52 hows life? 19:35:53 :) 19:36:19 what does it say then? 19:36:20 :) 19:36:27 I haven't seen you before. 19:36:38 oerjan: i don't see timestamps 19:37:00 It says I'm not betting that you know what the word 'Befunge' refers to. 19:37:01 wanted to see how long it takes me to code something like that 19:37:11 yet I exist :D 19:37:30 Well, for another few years, anyway. 19:37:52 cpressey: wait, i vaguely thought i'd seen alex2012 before. which means i might _vaguely_ bet. 19:38:05 alex2012, ah, but did you before I observed you? 19:38:06 oerjan: Well, I might lose some money, I suppose. 19:38:13 Chris Pressey child called befunge? :D 19:38:21 A risk always comes with betting. 19:38:25 argh! 19:38:29 oerjan: is it a nondeterministic bet or a quantum bet? 19:38:38 Oh, see, there, I lost. Or alex2012 can use Google. 19:39:06 nondeterministic betting might be pretty profitable 19:39:34 oklopol: well given the circumstances, it'll be a quantum morphogenetic karmic astral bet 19:40:00 cpressey, what about Befunge and a number? 19:40:14 cpressey: are you sure? unless "child" refers to "creation" 19:40:33 fun chat 19:40:37 :) 19:40:39 morphogenetic 19:40:56 alex2012: no u're fun 19:40:58 hey 19:41:19 hay 19:41:20 hoy 19:41:45 oklopol: stop bumbling about hitting things 19:42:57 karmic astral bet hmm seems karma got assigned wrong house of origin :) 19:43:36 oklopol: ok i'm still not sure either :D 19:44:31 alex2012: do you mean like linguistically? you're hard to read 19:44:53 I mean karma origin lies mainly in casual sphere 19:44:56 where causes reside 19:45:02 karmic betting only in the fifth house, please! 19:45:04 some call it akasha 19:45:09 :) 19:45:20 what's a house of origin? 19:45:42 sphere of inhabitation 19:45:48 :) 19:45:55 and that's not the ...astrum for causes? 19:45:57 er 19:45:58 karma 19:46:18 karma is in the casual sphere, not in the astral sphere? 19:46:21 anyone here into crystals? :) 19:46:21 alex2012: i don't know how to break this to you gently, but the channel topic is a lie, except for the part about programming languages 19:46:37 oerjan that i guessed 19:46:39 haha 19:46:44 Also the cake 19:46:51 I was wondering it there is connection between two 19:46:55 alex2012: did i get it 19:46:56 the language and topic 19:47:06 oklopol yes 19:47:08 okay 19:47:27 alex2012: well we're _still_ waiting for zzo38 to make his tarot programming language 19:47:30 what other spheres are there, and what things reside in spheres, am i in some sphere? 19:48:07 oklopol excellent question 19:48:07 :) 19:48:28 and are these spheres sets S(x,r) = {y | d(x,y)=r} for some metric space 19:49:00 oklopol: probably spheres of harmony 19:49:01 alex2012: it's an open problem whether humans reside in a sphere? 19:49:19 is there a standing conjecture 19:50:05 no this conjecture is a sitting duck 19:50:52 oklopol I can be equally presend in every point of creation :) however mind and some other things do act as a filter so what one perceives depends on his consitution 19:52:30 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:52:34 filter as in the kind where you only take those elements of a list that satisfy a predicate or the kind where you take all elements bigger than the generators, and all their finite infs? 19:53:08 i guess consitution would imply filter, how filter works depends on what you've consed to what 19:53:11 err 19:53:15 would imply the former 19:53:25 presending sounds like time travel 19:53:46 am i on the right track 19:53:52 and do you want to learn brainfuck 19:56:56 * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. 19:58:01 To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. 19:59:27 `addquote * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. 19:59:30 183|* Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. 19:59:38 A classic. 20:00:02 it's mainly drivers 20:00:25 basically you have an infinite chain of suspicious crystals that each come in 256 different shades, one of which is smelly, and you have another chain of marvellous crystals that come in 5 different shades, one of which, blue, always has a loop in its side (which is basically another smaller chain, which can contain other blue crystals having chains on the side etc). what you do is you look at each marvellous crystal at a time, if yo 20:00:28 did that come through 20:00:40 oklopol: yes, unfortunately 20:00:43 :D 20:00:51 oh wait 20:00:52 not all o fit 20:00:54 *of it 20:00:56 you got cut off 20:00:58 i forgot looping conditions 20:00:59 lul 20:01:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:01:28 so okay when you see a blue one, you step on its chain if smelly is not of shade 0, if it's 0, then you just skip the blue one 20:01:31 oh? 20:01:45 i'll resay from random 20:01:45 what you do is you look at each marvellous crystal at a time, if you see a red one, you increase the shade of the smelly crystal by one, if you see a yellow one, you decrease it by one, black moves the smelly crystal one step forward, white moves it one step backwards 20:01:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:02:21 this is different from the usual bf in that nothing says loops can't nest infinitely, but this is purer 20:02:38 crystal pure 20:02:55 hehhehehe 20:03:13 eeehhehhehehehehe 20:03:20 heheheheheeehhehehhhehheheheheheee 20:04:22 okay so turns out you shouldn't make brute force search programs modular. or write them in python i guess. 20:04:32 i have a list of rewrite rules 20:05:34 alex2012: did you get it 20:05:44 i can elaborate 20:05:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Excess Flood). 20:06:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:07:56 oklopol I am away and not all to here 20:07:56 :D 20:08:09 O GOD I AM SO CONFUSED. 20:10:02 essentially the point is you have an infinite graph^W collection of crystals connected by strings made of out of liquid consciousness, and each of these, at each time step, forwards to a neighboring crystal depending on current value of smelly crystal, forwards what? well your essence hovering over these crystals ofc, maybe i should've mentioned that. and also we can do stuff to the smelly crystal, or move on the chain of marvellous 20:10:23 If something runs on 32-bit Linux will it generally run on 64-bit? 20:10:27 no one says we can't have an infinite collection of crystals connected by strings of liquid consciousness on the side of marvellous crystals too 20:10:29 tho 20:10:35 maybe that would be prettier 20:10:46 Wait, never mind. 20:10:53 Phantom_Hoover: I would extremely surprised if there wasn't some kind of "shim" that lets you run 32-bit bin... ok, neverminding. 20:11:36 I think there's actually a direct compatibility mode. 20:11:59 Mostly you just need 32-bit versions of libraries. 20:12:12 Ooh. 20:12:16 Oh. 20:12:20 crystals are more interesting than linuces 20:12:24 (Superfluous o) 20:12:29 Debian/Ubuntu have a "ia32-libs" megapackage that contain many. 20:12:43 And other stuff with "32" in the name. 20:12:52 Hmm, FGFS runs natively on 64-bit Linux anyway 20:13:32 Debian also has some sort of system that can automagically convert 32-bit library .debs for installation in a 64-bit system. 20:35:23 Yay, ~ shrunk down to 12.8G! 20:36:15 * cpressey dreams of an esoteric resource compiler 20:36:42 Esoteric resource? 20:36:59 Like Microsoft's resource compiler of olde. 20:38:50 Not that rc wasn't esoteric in its own way: http://www.indexdata.com/blog/2009/12/my-funniest-bug-ever-windows-2-resource-compiler 20:38:54 What does iit do? 20:39:20 Compiles icons and other crap into a big opaque blob of data in your DLL. 20:39:35 Oh, so basically tar? 20:39:53 To this day, changing the desktop icon of a Windows app starts you off looking for icon images in the DLL. 20:40:22 Yeah, basically tar-meets-a-crippled-and-illiterate-ld. 21:02:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:07:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:16:33 uorygl: here? 21:16:50 Ahoy. 21:16:54 you made a set of aperiodic tiles with a seed right 21:16:55 Yay, got fgfs down to a couple of GB! 21:17:00 Yeah. 21:17:05 what was it based on? 21:17:15 was it sturmian words? 21:17:19 Yeah. 21:17:30 Like ABAABABA..., aye? 21:17:38 see the smallest tileset in the world, which i'm currently doing stuff with, is also based on those 21:17:46 although it doesn't use a seed 21:17:56 Oh, awesome. 21:18:01 with a seed the problem is trivial, although did you use a whole line as a seed? 21:18:06 then it's a bit less trivial 21:18:13 Yes, I did. 21:18:54 basically you put sturmian representations of numbers on the ns edges, so that what, and use se 21:18:56 eraoeijgoaeirjg 21:19:17 * uorygl blinks. 21:19:30 basically you put sturmian representations of numbers on the ns edges, so that what comes from the north is multiplied by something, and you use ew edges for carries 21:20:13 What if what comes from the north is zero? 21:21:05 you can prevent that by not having a division from 0-1 to 0-1 21:21:10 or 21:21:26 in the current world record set, you simply mark zeroes so that you can't use division twice 21:21:28 in a row 21:21:57 anyway if the multiplier is a rational number then sturmian representations mean we only need a finite amount of tiles that multiply by some number 21:21:58 Damn. 21:22:06 Not having a division? Hm? 21:22:16 I'll need to euthanise my electric sheep. 21:23:00 well umm maybe i should explain this in slightly more detail, i'll pm k? 21:23:07 Sure. 21:27:32 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:30:10 -!- alex2012 has left (?). 21:45:06 speaking of brightness, how many seconds does it take you to solve this: let A, B and C be paperbags. there's exactly one stone in A and B taken together, same for B and C, and altogether the bags contain 2 stones. where are the stones? 21:46:45 a and c 21:46:51 but I only just read the question 21:46:54 and forgot to time myself 21:47:07 okay but a few seconds? 21:47:33 yes, I think so 21:47:43 maybe about 10, half of it was trying to figure out what the question was 21:47:44 explain why, in pm, original proof that is 21:47:48 from there it's simple algebra 21:48:01 this problem interests me, because it is actually hard for many people 21:50:09 there is 1 stone in A, 2 stones in B and 1 stone in C 21:50:14 * oerjan cackles madly 21:50:32 er wait, damn 21:51:17 If I use tar cjf on a folder with a bzip2 archive in it, does it then try to compress the archive? 21:51:30 Phantom_Hoover: yes 21:51:36 Damn. 21:51:38 oklopol: modus tollens is apparently a harder concept to grasp than modus ponens 21:51:42 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:51:45 but recompressing an already-compressed file makes it only a few bytes larger 21:51:48 or sometimes even smaller 21:53:10 How many references to copper silver gold do you think is in the book "Godel, Escher, Bach"? 21:53:27 ais523, I'm concerned about time. 21:54:46 alternative answer: nest bags A and C and put 3 stones in the inner of those; then put -1 stone in bag B and put it inside the inner of bags A and C as well 21:54:48 I can find partial references, such as some things that mention only gold, and so on 21:55:00 zzo38: I'm guessing more than 5 and less than 10 21:55:38 oklopol: does my answer fit your assumptions? 21:55:47 Does the bottom of page 139 count? Maybe they tried and failed 21:55:59 zzo38: I don't have a copy of the book on me right now to check, I'm not at home 21:57:48 The bottom of page 139, the Lucas sequence, "29 + 47 = 76" same recursive rule as for the Fibonacci numbers. It is partial because 29 and 47 count but 76 is different 21:58:01 I don't know whether that was intentional or not 21:58:14 ais523: to answer really boringly, no 21:58:28 oklopol: maybe you need to reconsider your assumptions 21:58:55 OK, home folder is down to 7.3 GB. 21:59:07 That's *just* enough to fit on my largest flash drive 21:59:20 oklopol: took me a few minutes to come up with that alternate answer 21:59:22 oklopol: You and your preconceived notions about negative stones! 21:59:38 How many files do you have? 21:59:46 cpressey: nesting the bags is a common solution to lateral-thinking puzzles, but unfortunately it seems you need negative stones to make it work too 21:59:48 zzo38, I don't know. 21:59:59 in this case 22:00:02 I'll work it out. 22:00:45 hmm, this reminds me of the famous lightbulbs lateral thinking problem; I'll state a generalisation of it 22:00:57 My own files on my computer are not even 2 GB, even uncompressed. 22:01:14 * CakeProphet has 32 gigs of music. 22:01:22 You must have a lot more files, or else you must have a lot of videos, or audio, or pornography. 22:01:23 assume that you have access to two rooms, one of which contains a bunch of switches, and another of which contains a bunch of lightbulbs; you're the only person in either room for the duration of the experiment (and you can't get help from anyone/anything else, just you) 22:01:54 Maybe I used up less disk space because I don't like pornography 22:01:56 each switch controls one lightbulb, in that changing the position of the switch changes whether the lightbulb is lit or not; assume the simplest possible circuit for doing so in case it matters 22:02:02 zzo38, it was 23GB at lunchtime. 22:02:14 And none of it is pornography. 22:02:17 ais523: I have heard of this 22:02:21 now, the rules are: you start in the room with the switches, and you can move from the room with the switches into the room with the lightbulbs, but not the other way 22:02:24 zzo38: I'm not surprised 22:02:33 Phantom_Hoover: Then you must have a lot of videos, or very large audio files 22:02:47 No, none of that either 22:02:54 and the question is, what's the maximum number of lightbulbs for which you can determine with certainty which lightbulb is connected to which switch? 22:03:08 the puzzle's normally asked with just 3 lightbulbs, but it's possible to get a lot more than that 22:03:31 I can think of a solution for at least 6, but there's quite possibly a way to get more 22:03:52 ais523: Well, if they are momentary contact switches, then zero. I'll assume not. 22:04:02 I don't offhand see how it could be more than 2. 22:04:07 cpressey: no, they're toggle switches, and there's a defined on position 22:04:46 and as usual with lateral thinking puzzles, you have to look at the various assumptions involved 22:04:53 zzo38, I have no idea what takes up the space. 22:05:02 It seems that if there is >1 on, or >1 off, there is an ambiguity. 22:05:06 hmm, I've maybe thought of a way to get a seventh and eighth 22:05:18 cpressey: yes, you have to rely on the fact that RL lightbulbs are not the same as mathematical booleans 22:05:43 Oh. Well then tear open the wall with a crowbar and follow the wiring? 22:05:55 There's the usual temperature trick. 22:06:01 No crowbar would mean using bare hands -- that would hurt and take a long time though. 22:06:06 fizzie: the temperature trick is the intended answer, I think 22:06:11 But if one is persistent... 22:06:17 cpressey: but once you've followed one wire, you're in the lightbulb room and can't go back to follow the next one 22:06:53 Well, you see where all the wires exit the room, and then in the other room, see where they all enter. Then the limit is your memory. 22:06:55 Maybe turn on one light until it is on long enough to stop working 22:07:07 Would that work? I'm not sure 22:07:14 zzo38: that was my first solution, and you can combine it with the temperature trick to get six 22:07:20 Ah, got the number of times. 22:07:40 s/times/files/ 22:07:51 hmm, just thought of an answer that might work for infinitely many lightbulbs; if you dismantle the switches and cross-wire the wires supplying them to each other in various patterns, then in the lightbulb room you could start disconnecting and connecting lightbulbs to see which other lightbulbs turned on and off when you did 22:08:15 Including directories, there are 82,480 files on my system. 22:08:35 Phantom_Hoover: are you counting hardlinked files as number of links or number of files? 22:08:36 s/system/home directory/ 22:08:37 ais523: Or -- in the first room, strip some insulation from each wire, and use your tongue to detect electrical current. 22:08:54 cpressey: I don't see how that helps you correlate lightbulbs to switches, though 22:08:54 ais523, everything find prints on a line. 22:09:13 ais523: You're right of course, but it's a wild party game. 22:10:39 There is apparently a hailstorm headed this way, and my coworkers are leaving to avoid being struck by chunks of ice being hurled through the sky buy gale-force winds. 22:11:00 Phantom_Hoover: Do you mean "find | wc -l" or something like that 22:11:01 -!- Amrykid has joined. 22:11:03 cpressey: are you planning to do the same? or do you live in your office? or do you have some more ingenious plan? 22:11:10 zzo38, yes 22:11:35 ais523: Well, I live really nearby, like a 2-minute walk, so I'm debating whether I should take off too. 22:11:43 2 minutes of hail is still not pleasant though, I bet. 22:11:58 is there any particular reason to be in the office as opposed to at home, or vice versa? 22:12:09 if there isn't, you may as well walk home now because there's no reason not to 22:12:50 -!- coppro has changed nick to scshunt. 22:12:54 Well, I may be too late at this point. 22:13:00 Huge drops of rain out the window. 22:13:29 Storms in this part of the country tend to be short and violent, so I may wait it out here. 22:13:45 And if it gets late, brave the few blocks. 22:15:38 On that note -- maintaining production web software is like serving dinner in a moving car. From another moving car in the adjacent lane. 22:18:54 0= bottles of beer 22:18:56 1= on the wall 22:19:03 2=Take one down and pass it around 22:19:04 3= 22:19:05 4= 22:19:11 5=#9J3k{HHH,"}#9J4kHHH,"#0@ 22:19:17 6=No more bottles of beer on the wall 22:19:20 7=5x1@;5x;2@;444&.#AJ4kZ{4!333&.}#H2J3k4kZ{6@;\}5x1@;;# 22:19:24 #[494"7x] 22:21:45 What language? 22:22:19 ais523: idgi, you can basically just flip some switches up, and some down, and then go in the other room to see which lights are on, and the experiment is over? 22:22:29 clearly you can't deduce anything 22:22:44 oklopol: you can unscrew the lights from their socket, which breaks the circuit 22:22:53 then observe which other lights turn off, because you'd wired them together 22:23:08 or you could leave a light on for half an hour then turn it off, it'll be warmer than the others (assuming filament lights) 22:23:58 okay, i'm not good with irl puzzles 22:23:59 zzo38, what language is it? 22:23:59 Phantom_Hoover: Are you refering to the beer code? It is Q-RESOURCE, which is a program to make resource files for QBASIC programs 22:24:05 Oh 22:24:12 i take the simplest mathematical model i can think of and use that 22:24:28 Q-RESOURCE codes are usually not like this, but this is still a valid code 22:24:41 okay fun trick 22:26:34 so okay we can do everything with temperature, choose for each switch a number between [0, 1], so that for each numbers r1 and r2, r1 != r2, 1-r1 != r2, then if we have each switch i on ri of the time, we can uniquely identify which bulb is which switch's, except maybe in some pathological cases 22:26:39 -!- ec has changed nick to purr. 22:27:01 used numbers rather weirdly but anyway 22:28:00 but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well 22:28:27 well maybe not exactly, but i see what i mean 22:28:47 *used indices 22:29:32 hmm wait that doesn't work if we don't know what function of time temperature is 22:29:45 do we?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 22:30:14 I have one question, how should I fix a movie showtime service program? The one I have is broken, and I want advice how it should be fixed. Would screen-scraping be necessary? 22:32:28 I also have a weather report service, but it doesn't have weather forecast. How can I fix it to have weather forecast? 22:33:28 `addquote but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well 22:33:31 you are a true programmer 22:33:31 184| but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well 22:33:33 *esoprogrammer 22:34:16 so err what was your solution 22:34:58 gah, I missed the start of the ICFP 22:35:29 it was a programming comp right? 22:36:21 yes, it's annual 22:36:25 I didn't realise this year's was coming up, though 22:36:33 and the nature of the task is such that you're unlikely to win if you don't start immediately 22:37:01 http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=LOT 22:39:02 "The data for both cars and fuel will be encoded by a stream of trits (ternary bits) and, you guessed it, we won't tell you more about the encoding here, so you just have to make some educated guesses, based on the error messages of the stream parser on our server." 22:39:29 and people find this fun 22:39:43 -!- Gregor-P has joined. 22:40:20 well, it's a competition 22:40:30 wow 22:40:32 there hasn't been reverse-engineering involved for several years now, though 22:40:32 that's cool 22:40:33 :SD 22:40:39 so I'm a bit disappointed that I missed this year's 22:40:42 i would absolutely love that 22:40:50 Which movie showtime services, weather forecast service, in internet, should I used to write the program that I was trying to write (the old one is broke)? 22:41:04 that language reverse-engineering thing has to be started at some point 22:41:27 hmm, maybe oklopol and I should form a team for next year's, as long as the task is interesting 22:41:37 or well i should start it, make tons of challenges a few try and no one solves 22:41:37 I skipped last year's because I didn't like the look of the problem 22:42:01 yes perhaps we could 22:42:03 what was it about? 22:42:36 Can has context? 22:42:46 I can't remember which one it was specifically, but two of the recent ones were about optimizing trajectories with floating-point arithmetic 22:42:48 Gregor-P: ICFP 22:42:59 http://icfpcontest.org 22:43:01 Ahhhhhhh 22:44:06 I've only entered one year so far, it was the one about writing an AI for a Mars lander 22:44:09 which is being chased by martians 22:44:24 yeah we remember 22:44:32 how did you do 22:44:41 failed horribly????????????????????? 22:45:10 not horribly, although I didn't reach the finals 22:45:19 I was eliminated in something like the fifth or sixth qualification round 22:45:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:56 okay 22:54:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 22:56:48 oklopol: on the subject of problems that many people have trouble with, what's 1000 + 100 + 1000 + 200 + 1000 + 300 + 1000 + 400? 22:56:59 um, wrong question 22:57:05 1000 + 10 + 1000 + 20 + 1000 + 30 + 1000 + 40 22:57:41 oklopol! 22:57:50 -!- Ilari has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:57:55 * cpressey gets out his pocket calculator 22:57:58 dum de dum 22:58:03 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:58:34 it seems that many people give the same answer for the two questions 22:58:42 although you have to ask them in the other order or they suspect something's up 23:05:04 * ais523 reads about the Von Neumann cellular automaton 23:05:17 it's actually pretty interesting, sort of a non-tarpit version of WireWorld or Life 23:05:44 Oh, yeah. 23:06:11 There's another variant wherein there's another few states to enable signal crossing. 23:06:23 Incidentally, isn't the VN CA planar? 23:06:59 Is that the one where he describes "self-assembling machines"? 23:07:56 cpressey: yes, I think 23:08:13 Phantom_Hoover: I thought about that for a while, and concluded that it doesn't make sense to describe CAs as planar or non-planar 23:08:19 the definition just doesn't really fit them 23:08:38 But could you simulate it on a planar machine? 23:08:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:10:30 Phantom_Hoover: can you /define/ a planar machine? 23:10:45 it is not trivial to define at all 23:10:58 Then whence the wire-crossing problem? 23:11:47 It's relative to the model in which you are defining the machine. 23:12:03 Phantom_Hoover: the wire-crossing problem is, IMO, badly defined 23:12:10 If your model is very clear about what is a graph, it's not a big problem. 23:12:12 AH. 23:12:39 if you're interested, look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Formula; I'm curious as to whether it's TC in two dimensions 23:12:40 So why do we have an article on it? 23:12:55 I was interested in it for a while 23:13:01 alas, being badly defined doesn't prevent people caring about the answer 23:30:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 23:31:37 If there was a model for expressing models of computation that was purely a graph, it would all be OK. But there's always something more... 23:31:57 Stupid turtles. 23:35:31 cpressey: Formula was an attempt to make purely a graph 23:37:47 "We gladly inform you that you have been selected as one of the five winners in our email lottery program in which email addresses were picked randomly by a computerized balloting powered by the internet. Your email was among those 5 chosen during this exercise." 23:37:52 hmm, reading spam can be fun sometimes 23:38:04 I like the sound of a "computerized balloting powered by the internet" 23:38:08 I do not understand the Formula description. 23:38:30 "If the output is an integer + ½ exactly, a bit is read from input, and it is rounded up" -- "it" refers to the output? 23:39:13 umm, let me try to remember 23:39:15 The input is just to do tiebreaking for 0.5's ? 23:39:28 yes, that's it 23:39:43 you interpret the output of the formula as if it had been rounded based on a value from the input 23:39:45 it's how you do I/O 23:39:59 I see. 23:40:04 the description there, which I presumably wrote ages ago, uses the word "output" for two entirely different things 23:40:21 * cpressey wonders why this was never implemented - it looks pretty simple 23:40:33 Oh 23:40:36 probably because nobody cared 23:40:38 output -> result in some context, yes 23:40:54 I can kind of see what it's getting at. 23:42:48 Also, real numbers. Icky. 23:43:15 yes, I know 23:43:38 although I don't think there's anything in Formula that fails if you implement it by calculating decimal expansions lazily 23:43:50 We started using protocol 4.3 of a vendor service recently at work; someone forgot to put quotes around it in the config file, and we got a bunch of lovely errors about "Unknown service 4.29999999999999999". 23:43:56 hmm, except maybe the checking for exactly an integer/exactly .5 23:44:03 cpressey: go go floating point 23:44:12 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:44:47 -!- Oranjer has joined. 23:44:49 reminds me of trying to implement a particular 32-bit PRNG in JavaScript 23:45:11 I had to do the calculations 16 bits at a time to fit within the range of integers that can be safely represented as floating-point 23:45:23 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:45:27 that was the same project that I got working in IE6 23:45:47 but it seems all the IE6 bugs I hit also exist in IE7 and IE8, also IE5.5, so the 6ness was irrelevant 23:48:53 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:53:18 -!- leBMD has joined. 23:53:21 Well, the storm has passed, so I'm heading home. 23:53:34 Take care, folks. 23:53:35 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:53:41 howdy folks 23:53:47 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:54:03 -!- Amrykid has left (?).