< 1277251227 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277251602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277251795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277252435 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you broke our dutch guy, he speaks norwegian instead of swedish now! < 1277252543 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-7-61.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277252633 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277252636 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night. < 1277252645 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh! and incidentally he has the same name as you, only in dutch < 1277252658 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orjanken. < 1277252666 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night. < 1277252673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: what became of Braces? < 1277252673 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277252685 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1277252695 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been drive-by ehirded < 1277252796 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277252964 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1277253397 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277253496 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1277253496 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1277253653 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277254437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277254554 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-9-112.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277254570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait, what? < 1277254625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc, dbc and I are categorical duels. <-- what was that about? < 1277254659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, who would that be < 1277254667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and indeed that seems seriously broken < 1277254695 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-22-65.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277254789 0 :augur__!~augur@pool-74-96-27-204.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277254820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the heck is our dutch guy < 1277254841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277254868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :categorical duel is clearly the same as a galois connection < 1277254962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, argh < 1277254986 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277255229 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-156.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277255305 0 :augur__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277255739 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-2-125.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277255769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277256407 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277256694 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277256727 0 :augur_!~augur@96.231.227.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277256827 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277256932 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277257029 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.3/20100401080539] < 1277257147 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else read Mathematicians in Love? < 1277257149 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277257198 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277257221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone willing to join me in working on this project I've been working on? < 1277257230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at Warrigal not being named uorygl < 1277257235 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uorygl < 1277257238 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for reminding me. < 1277257244 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the project you're working on? < 1277257302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A remake of a previous game on this platform < 1277257367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It [at least the portion that's being programmed] is written in C# < 1277257574 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-1-51.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277257683 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277257799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a virtual world kind of thing right? If I didn't have so much on my plate right now then I would actually consider it. < 1277257840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the "virtual world" bit is already programmed long ago, we don't need to handle how to display stuff, or networking issues, etc. etc. < 1277257954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, thank you anyway < 1277258147 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277258169 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-31-184.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277258457 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1277258578 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah, so scripting more or less? < 1277258608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really :/ < 1277258612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ah < 1277258622 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to have a scripting engine of some kind. Maybe use Lua. < 1277258630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even things that should probably be scripted really aren't :/ < 1277258640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could add a scripting engine to the bot, but I'm not sure if it's worth it < 1277258650 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. possible < 1277258665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would depend on how big of a project it was. < 1277258668 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume not very big. < 1277258676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a grand total of 7 puzzles that will be programmed, 6 of which have already been programmed in C# < 1277258701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels big, but maybe that's because of the hiatuses I've taken, and the repeated rewrites, etc. etc. < 1277258788 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua is actually harder than it sounds to parse < 1277258803 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lua vm isn't particularly hard, though < 1277258817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw some Lua parser for C# though < 1277258827 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried making a lua bytecode compiler in lua < 1277258832 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point? i have a lua vm in java < 1277258862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, at this late stage, there's not much point in suddenly adding scripting < 1277258880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the virtual world does have limited scripting abilities, which I do take advantage of, instead of hardcoding in the bot < 1277258916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's not TC though, and things that happen tend either not be visible to anyone but the one person, or to everyone around at the time, but no one else < 1277259891 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1277259897 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277260376 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1277260937 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277260970 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277261031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to stop using Firefox < 1277261287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome++ < 1277261430 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to stop using chrome < 1277261445 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI is screwet < 1277261449 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwey* < 1277261565 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277261598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277261610 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1277262270 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277262312 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to make a little Python library < 1277262323 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that takes a function, extracts the source code, and saves it to a file < 1277262328 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can save snippets of things I'm doing in the shell. < 1277262338 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/saves/appends/ < 1277262445 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277262666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm not sure python actually preserves the source code of functions after they're defined... < 1277262694 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277262760 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h131.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277262957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277262994 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-31-184.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277263501 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277263686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277264163 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277264179 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277264194 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-31-184.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277266116 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277266238 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277266374 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... are PRNG less random on small ranges of values? < 1277266392 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my coin toss function in Python seems a little wonky to me. < 1277266426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're frequently less random on lower bits < 1277266476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using modulo to reduce the range is not recommended < 1277266512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this all presumably depends on exactly which PRNG is used < 1277266533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While they've improved, a 'typical' PRNG will probably fail the 3- or 4-dimensionality test < 1277266584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there is of course also the possibility you have an actual bug :D < 1277266624 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. In Python? < 1277266626 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import random < 1277266629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random.randint(0,1) < 1277266636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'v got at lest one one and one zero < 1277266650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... that _should_ be taken care of, then < 1277266659 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unfortunate note < 1277266672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inspect module in Python cannot grab source lines from functions defined in a shell < 1277266692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's what i suspected above < 1277266699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this greatly saddens me. Sometimes I make some useful little script-like function things, but I never take the time to save them. < 1277266741 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense. It would be ridiculous to save a source string for every function defined. Like the __doc__ attribute. < 1277266752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hm, maybe you can find another way to save lines as they are entered? < 1277266781 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm... < 1277266791 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would require some kind of debugger magic. < 1277266797 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1277266819 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how Python's debugger module works. But I've seen an implementation of goto and come from in Python that uses it. < 1277266823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some hook into the input routine the python repl uses, or something? < 1277266853 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. Not sure if it has said hook. I'll look around, just not at the moment. It is definitely something I desire. < 1277266888 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to just have a file that has functions I've defined in shell appended to it... actually I'd have more than one. One uncategorized and others with definite categories. < 1277266917 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....here's a cool idea. Why not have functions that do things like "move source of function F in module A to module B" < 1277266929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems pretty useful. I'd imagine it being faster than copying and pasting. < 1277266988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suspects that's such a thing as them thar newfangled eye dee ee things do...
< 1277267010 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... but I can never find one I like. The interfaces are always ridiculous. < 1277267020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've never had the patience to sit down and learn something like emacs. < 1277267034 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what IDEs do you use? < 1277267054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none either, just vim < 1277267066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a very small scale programmer at best < 1277267081 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer is kind of slow. I'm working on an Android app right now and Eclipse is dismally slow. < 1277267101 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use gedit... but there are some manual text-editing things I do that I really wish I could automate. < 1277267253 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try emacs just because it seems kind of tailored to that kind of thing. < 1277267291 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well learn all the esoteric key combinations. And programming in some crazy aspect-oriented Lisp dialect sounds fun. < 1277267325 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case < 1277267331 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go get fucked up and then study some history < 1277267337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see everyone later. < 1277267348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277267920 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277268115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277268469 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277269342 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1277269699 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277269829 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag: 37.1 seconds < 1277269837 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277270410 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277270639 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-31-184.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277270936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277272289 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-31-184.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277272821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277273357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277274051 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uorygl < 1277274245 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277276316 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277276488 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277277097 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277277253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277278444 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277279353 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277279999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277280000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277280090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277281147 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277281181 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :future alise: comic for you? http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/index.php < 1277281202 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont respond via logs, i dont log read. ping until i respond. < 1277281300 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1277281315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any register/stackvirtual machine hybrids? < 1277282309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277282790 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h98.7.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277283565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277283750 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277283798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277286083 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277286561 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-51.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277291057 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1277291922 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277292008 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1277293127 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.4/20100611143157] < 1277293746 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277293787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277293819 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277294351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai < 1277294357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277294896 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277295115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd :D (especially the hovertext) < 1277295513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I don't get the hover text. *googles that word* < 1277295530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider yourself lucky :D < 1277295576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION only knows because he sometimes reads newspapers
< 1277295599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't during summer < 1277295609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never the sports pages < 1277295641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course because there have been reddit links about it < 1277295809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing spam seen at Slashdot: That is one of the greatest things ever.That is one of the most incredible feelings on Earth.Thank you for bringing a well thought out and reasoned comment to the discussion. Cheap Wholesale T-shirts < 1277295814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I snipped out the link location < 1277295829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277295846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, converted HTML to plaintext for IRC purposes) < 1277295853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even funnier, it wasn't actually in reply to anything < 1277295896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this feels relevant: http://www.theonion.com/articles/amazing-new-hyperbolic-chamber-greatest-invention,1321/ < 1277295908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if 98 SEK / month is cheap or expensive for 3G. Includes 1 GB data traffic / month at 6 Mbit/s, after that reduced to crawl speed but doesn't cost extra.
< 1277295920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is an SEK? < 1277295922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 free SMS / month (would never reach that limit) < 1277295928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in which currency? < 1277295936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any I know the value of < 1277295939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although preferably GBP < 1277295947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1277295955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 Swedish kronor = 8.47548881 British pounds < 1277295957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says google < 1277295967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems pretty good < 1277295979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277295984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how much it /should/ cost, I don't have a mobile < 1277295989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277297680 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@158.120.0.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277297830 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277299118 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is alise canned again < 1277299212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes but he sometimes sneaks in here as ehirdiphone < 1277299228 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was just for one week < 1277299238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did she get holed up again? < 1277299262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's _every_ week, more or less. < 1277299277 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about those long weeks where she was out < 1277299282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're demanding he live there < 1277299296 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because of her gender ambiguosity? < 1277299323 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, either way < 1277299329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well there was one week recently when he had some days off, presumably because school's out or something... < 1277299339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just hope alise gets out quickly < 1277299347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can abuse her on irc here < 1277299376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: there is no gender ambiguity, just a joke based on a nick change < 1277299395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the way.... you see things. < 1277299437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well alise _has_ mentioned he's often mistaken for female irl, but i have had no impression he really wants to be < 1277299486 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admission will come. < 1277299495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, perhaps :D < 1277299507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1277299508 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you admit being mistaken for a girl if you didn't secretly wish you were one? < 1277299514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as he doesn't go as crazy as fax < 1277299527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, because you don't have a huge ego admitting that is no issue? < 1277299537 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1277299555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to explain this joke < 1277299639 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke? < 1277299642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have failed me. < 1277299653 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.4/20100611143157] < 1277299684 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277299724 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84.217.6.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277299776 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277299790 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's moderately cool < 1277299800 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have xchat maximized < 1277299806 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i cannot switch to any other apps < 1277299897 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-51.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277299902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, what is moderately cool? < 1277299916 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i just mentioned. < 1277299919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277299935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, that referred to something you was going to say. I see < 1277299939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused me a bit < 1277300085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke struck a time traveling paradox and ceased to have ever existed < 1277300095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gender ambiguosity? < 1277300115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1277300119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: alise likes to use female pronouns with his nick < 1277300131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: little kids occasionally mistake me for a girl < 1277300140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOO < 1277300155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're supposed to be this channel's epitome of masculinity < 1277300183 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277300230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have long hair, that's enough for kids occasionally < 1277300258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and according to some people i also look somewhat girlish, which is weird because i almost never shave my highly irregular beard < 1277300296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay i'll try to keep epitomizing < 1277300304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just not aware of this < 1277300308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea how oklopol looks, actually, as evidenced by the fact he had no idea oklopol had a beard
< 1277300319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i haven't had one for all that long < 1277300326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although beards are masculine, so that's ok < 1277300335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just like my hair, i usually just let it grow as much as it likes < 1277300345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in any shape < 1277300374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like i don't cut my body parts if they grow too big < 1277300376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the only person on the channel i know/can remember how looks is gregor < 1277300384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there is one more person < 1277300387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have a book on frappr < 1277300399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the obvious one) < 1277300410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was the only picture online afaik, i actually doubt many people have access to any kinds of pictures of me < 1277300422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't) < 1277300436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i did take those vids < 1277300441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i played the piano naked < 1277300449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1277300463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i kinda wanna go play the piano naked < 1277300471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUIT YOURSELF < 1277300476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1277300493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming you still shave regularly? < 1277300493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's actually ambiguous < 1277300497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277300498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that the point? < 1277300513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, only discovered it after pressing enter < 1277300527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hard time believing that :\ < 1277300550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my unconscious has a mind of its own < 1277300551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably clear what i was implying by "still", that was accidental meanness. < 1277300584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure you noticed so maybe it would've been more polite not to mention it :D) < 1277300593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aware of beards stopping to grow, usually. now the top of my head on the other hand... < 1277300625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no i meant because i've understood you're basically a hermit :D < 1277300632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait you mean it wasn't intentional to refer to wearing a suit there? < 1277300641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like oklopol I have a hard time believing that < 1277300642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope it wasn't < 1277300663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm assuming you still shave regularly? <-- do you? < 1277300678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't shave at all < 1277300683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1277300684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277300699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my beard < 1277300702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, actually i guess i can believe you were saying "as you wish", for some reason i thought you meant "put some clothes on" and it was an accident that it was an idiom xD < 1277300705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do something about the moustache sometimes. Otherwise it interferes with eating < 1277300706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1277300709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, i do not < 1277300711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realizes he's in a dark channel with a lot of men with full beards
< 1277300716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that I don't shave < 1277300729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, alas mine grow slowly... < 1277300761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant oerjan seems like the kind of person who would shave his beard every morning (at 12:13) years after stopping to go out of his house < 1277300768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have very thick hair on top of my head, but my beard is less well behaved. :( < 1277300780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, XD < 1277300801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i haven't stopped to go out of the house < 1277300807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just making sure you understand i was implying this, because otherwise it makes no sense i apologized for it < 1277300813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know, added some joking < 1277300827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside? I heard rumours of this place < 1277300832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange place I heard < 1277300836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i do know everything you have *told* me about your routines < 1277300839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no roof. < 1277300845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just mystical? < 1277300847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about rain then? < 1277300850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buckets? < 1277300852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you mean the shower? < 1277300854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if oerjan wasn't Norwegian, I could imagine him spending his entire day in an immaculate suit < 1277300861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ohh that's what it's for < 1277300862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow that strikes me as not being a particularly Norwegian thing to do < 1277300877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mystical/mythical/ < 1277300878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo there < 1277300880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have no idea how my beard behaves because i've never let it grow, it starts annoyingly itching after 2/3 days < 1277300897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess technically that's a part of its behavior < 1277300903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah but that passes if you wait a bit more IME < 1277300908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i guess my shaving guess was based on the fact oerjan looks a bit like a bible salesman < 1277300934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oerjan isn't very Norwegian. Doesn't like skiing iirc! < 1277300935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again, i don't actively remember faces so i cannot say this is really my opinion, vague recollection :D) < 1277300966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen ais523 too but i confuse him with this really bearded dude from uni < 1277300968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the rain is just because the outside is leaking, no wonder with no roof < 1277300976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to Gregor's music.
< 1277300986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I really like the wipp previews of op13 < 1277301008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: all your music sucks ass in general, and you should stop composing and become a bricklayer. < 1277301020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you, seriously < 1277301026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what? < 1277301027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's his musics again btw? < 1277301032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm trying new things < 1277301033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, codu.org < 1277301036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, new oklopol < 1277301040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1277301053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that webpage the name of which i've heard 70 times < 1277301054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, http://codu.org/music/ and http://codu.org/music/wipp.php to be more specific < 1277301065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the only picture of me you can possibly have seen _does_ look a bit like a bible salesman, come to think of it < 1277301076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol: the rain is just because the outside is leaking, no wonder with no roof <-- took me about 10 seconds to figure out that that was a joke < 1277301078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you up a more recent one? < 1277301085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I just thought I'd missed context < 1277301094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what photo is that? < 1277301109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was why i asked "buckets?", that was actually sort of *my* joke < 1277301123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : instead I just thought I'd missed context <-- instead of what? < 1277301127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i have no digital camera in any form. although my dad is insisting on financing a new cell phone for my birthday so that may change < 1277301128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the roof must be very leaky given there isn't one < 1277301134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: coool < 1277301140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: instead of oerjan having made a joke < 1277301141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you play the piano naked? < 1277301154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what a strange question < 1277301162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant, oerjan in the pic < 1277301169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's directed at me, given a suitable piano I can play it while wearing clothes, and I'm not sure if the lack of the clothes would make a difference < 1277301171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have missed the context for that < 1277301174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277301185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which ones of the jokes? < 1277301197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that one < 1277301198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277301214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have videos of my playing the piano naked online < 1277301230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't see anything, but technically) < 1277301234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277301255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose there's any nice assembler-oriented text frontend for GDB? Something simple, with a disassembly view, IP highlight, single-key single-step, and register values continuously visible in a separate pane or something. (I've used cgdb with single-key macros of "stepi" and "info registers", but it's still a bit pessimal.) < 1277301272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um. set gdb language to asm iirc? < 1277301319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or have you tried that already? As for frontend in general, something like ddd can probably set up to show registers in a separate pane < 1277301332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was years ago I used any frontend for gdb at all < 1277301338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://oerjan.nvg.org/face.gif~ (must be about 15 years old by now) < 1277301358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I suppose there is some emacs fontend for gdb that could do this. There is bound to be one almost by definition < 1277301390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wrong mime type < 1277301394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setting the language doesn't really do much; you still have to type out "info registers" every time you want to see the values. And there's no permanently-visible-with-current-row-highlighted disassembly view either. It's not *bad*, it's just not quite what I want. < 1277301397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i had no idea you look like that < 1277301400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wants to save as attachment < 1277301407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely no idea < 1277301421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening 'http://oerjan.nvg.org/face.gif~' failed: Procedure 'file-uri-load' returned no return values < 1277301426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen that guy tho, not sure where, without cheating < 1277301426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't work in gimp either < 1277301444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddd is (well, was five-ten years ago) pretty horrible; cgdb is at least a text-based thing. < 1277301450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277301460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is you? < 1277301475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember the name of that reverse image search engine
< 1277301475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1277301486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that face seems familiar too < 1277301490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you see how to construct X and Y such that there is no injection from one to the other? < 1277301494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it's anywhere else < 1277301514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been trying to do this, but i have a very limited set of tools for this in my head < 1277301514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1277301541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um in ZFC there always is < 1277301564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry yesterday's context < 1277301573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computable injections < 1277301577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsets of N < 1277301581 0 :Quadresce`!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1277301594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something in Emacs, but, well. < 1277301650 0 :Quadresce`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277301658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw it's the wrong mime type because i've appended ~ in order that it _not_ appear on the web - face.gif was used for some nvg.org directory page at one time < 1277301659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw maybe a bit nontrivial (but probably not), there exists a set that's properly smaller than N w.r.t. injections, and properly bigger than it w.r.t. surjections < 1277301660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? < 1277301665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you a vim user? < 1277301667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1277301679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you see what those terms mean or do i define? or actually do you care at all? < 1277301722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to try it. It does have some sort of "gdb-many-windows" variable which makes it show up a register buffer (where you can even edit the values). < 1277301738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never tried it myself < 1277301782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i can guess what they mean but it's not a subject i know about < 1277301784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the set of (encodings of, or as an instance of the same problem for subsets of {0, 1}^*) prefices of the binary expansion of an uncomputable real number < 1277301804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well to me it's a subject i invented yesterday < 1277301807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and can't gdb itself support split windows? Or is that only for showing source in the upper half? < 1277301835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know about that. I guess I should read the manual there. < 1277301847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm are you an emacs or vim user? < 1277301852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1277301872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm both, which is even worse, I guess. < 1277301875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The gdb Text User Interface (TUI) is a terminal interface which uses the curses library to show the source file, the assembly output, the program registers and gdb commands in separate text windows." < 1277301881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound so bad. < 1277301890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, it's well-known that most of the people in this channel either use both vim/emacs, or neither < 1277301896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by a few trolls < 1277301906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well any subset of N is properly smaller wrt injections, and if you make it include some simple infinite set like all even numbers it will be bigger by surjections. then you can probably tweak the odd subset to be too complicated to have a computable bijection < 1277301908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, the answer to "are you an emacs or vim user" should be "yes" or "no" < 1277301923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, emacs, kate, nano for me < 1277301934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no any two RE sets are the same size for instance, with both definitions < 1277301946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I use something like six or seven editors < 1277301952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most commonly emacs and gedit, though < 1277301958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well the set cannot be RE then... < 1277301967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do use gedit if there is no other option < 1277301971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it can't < 1277301984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gedit for little things for which notepad would be sufficient < 1277302015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're saying < 1277302049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay i'm a troll now (never use emacs these days, only vim) < 1277302063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well any subset of N is properly smaller wrt injections" <<< this i don't think is true, "if you make it include some simple infinite set like all even numbers it will be bigger by surjections" is not either afaiu < 1277302071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I meant, it was a troll who recently tried to make everyone side with emacs or vim < 1277302103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is properly inj-smaller than Y if there's an injection from X to Y but not from Y to X, for surjs the other way around, just to make sure. < 1277302128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um the identity function will be an injection, and division by 2 function will be a surjection < 1277302142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1277302166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on what set would division by two be a surjection? < 1277302167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok having all evens would ruin the lack of a reverse injection < 1277302171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well explain whether those statements were actually wrong or if i misunderstood you < 1277302180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: integer division < 1277302185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1277302203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Would be a bijection on R clearly < 1277302212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no by your definition what i said isn't smaller by injection < 1277302216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or Q < 1277302251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes < 1277302274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so... were you wrong? and which of those two statements are you referring to? < 1277302297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking is so complicated :-P < 1277302304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my example was wrong < 1277302307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1277302389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: however this means there could be no computable injection from N to X, if Y is a subset of N < 1277302403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically the question is, by those definitions, can we find two sets that are comparable in size in both ways (inj and surj), but disagree on those < 1277302422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning we probably shouldn't think of them as sizes...) < 1277302427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which is actually stronger than X being non-RE, isn't it < 1277302440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe so < 1277302505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway i already gave the answer, i guess you must've missed it) < 1277302506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact X should have no infinite RE subset < 1277302510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277302536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prof i mentioned this to's first thought was that's impossible < 1277302545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time i outsmarted him < 1277302556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by at least 10 seconds) < 1277302561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that uncomputable real prefix thing? < 1277302564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277302598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is X a specific set or "any set" here? < 1277302622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea generalizes muchly, say to functions from N to N, taking the language {f(1)#...#f(n) | n \in N} < 1277302648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an infinite RE subset, then f(N) is RE too < 1277302653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any subset of N < 1277302697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about computable functions between subsets of N, f : X -> Y, defined with tm's that, given and element of X give you an element of Y, and can do anything outside X (even not halt) < 1277302718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't know if this definition has been mentioned, you might disagree on its naturality) < 1277302751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah < 1277302774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah < 1277302777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sounds like what i thought. anyway, see you later < 1277302781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277302785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay bye < 1277302795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds quite interesting < 1277302803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1277302839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is, i'm pretty sure it should be embeddable in something like recursion theory, but the one prof i asked saw no direct connection (not really his area) < 1277302841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you mean so that it gives you an injection from X to Y? < 1277302867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does not have to be an injection, the definition of computable injection is that it's also an injection, as one might guess :) < 1277302890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surjections mean Y is sort of "RE, once you know X" < 1277302898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah, so it can give the same element of Y for several elements of X then? < 1277302935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean that there can be several elements of Y mapping to the same element of X? Or both of these? < 1277302940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can be any function, we just require that elements of X go inside Y, otherwise the tm can do anything it likes. < 1277302951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah < 1277302952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y doesn't map to X < 1277302955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X maps to Y < 1277302966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deterministic turing machiens < 1277302968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*machines < 1277302985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so the function f(x) = 1 where {1,2,3} satisfies this then? < 1277302995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err where Y = {1,2,3} < 1277302996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1277303001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Y = dropped out somewhere < 1277303022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a tm computing that can be given any domain < 1277303050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well I meant "so constant function is okay then?" with that < 1277303058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277303067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my answer applies to that < 1277303070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's oikay < 1277303071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277303071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oaky < 1277303073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oaky < 1277303076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fuck it < 1277303082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1277303099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oaky oklopol. Alliteration! < 1277303112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't even been able to prove there are two sets that are incomparable, that is, two sets with no injection either way < 1277303136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: {Chuck Norris} and the natural numbers < 1277303138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently my definition of size is with injectivity, X is smaller than Y if there's an injection from X to Y. this is natural because if X is a subset of Y then identity works < 1277303156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*smaller than of equal size < 1277303161 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1277303165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really a direct substitution) < 1277303207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's obvious to me that subsets of N aren't totally ordered with this definition < 1277303242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean totally comparable, you'll get a partition into equivalence classes ofc, because injections are a preorder < 1277303248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why Chuck Norris? < 1277303266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that a bad chuck norris joke? < 1277303268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you can't compare him with a natural number, or indeed anything else < 1277303276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then it was < 1277303335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminilogy seen during a wikipedia browsing run: "A totally ineffable cardinal is a cardinal that is n-ineffable for every n." It's nice that there's a techical definition for that word too. < 1277303365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm are there any incomparable sets? Or is that not yet proven either way? < 1277303492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ashleymills.com/?q=befunge_applet_lite treats undefined commands as 'push ASCII value of command on stack' < 1277303513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any precedent for that? < 1277303544 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277303616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not that I can remember < 1277303630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does sound weird to me. < 1277303635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 93? < 1277303638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 93 < 1277303643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/28625/ relies on that behaviour < 1277303707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lets see.. brainfuck, C, befunge? Anything else? < 1277303719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python, Perl, Ruby < 1277303738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit I didn't spot the befunge part right away, probably wouldn't if you hadn't mentioned that < 1277303745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh? < 1277303804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does the program do? < 1277303808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prints "404" < 1277303821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277303832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also relies on a . that doesn't put a space in. < 1277303841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really. < 1277303852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still looks the same :-P < 1277303891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite, but I guess it's reasonable. < 1277303904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so that program is "definee"44.*.@ ? < 1277303917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1277303922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's < 1277303940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definee4*.@ < 1277303943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it relied on undefined pushing on stack < 1277303951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1277303953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does < 1277303958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but I tried to translate to "pushes on stack" < 1277303961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normal befunge < 1277303971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, to make it valid it needs quotes < 1277303976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"definee"4*.@ < 1277303978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, exactly < 1277303984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there are two 4 < 1277303990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to make it run in most interps, define"e"4*.@ is enough < 1277304008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; you're missing the line-break symbol on the previous line < 1277304013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or line-joiner symbol < 1277304014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1277304017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arrows < 1277304021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh so that is what it is < 1277304024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or look at the line numbers on the left < 1277304042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277304088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, right, I looked at the "4." bit and thought it's going to do it separately, i.e. "4 0 4 ": that's why I mentioned the spaces. Missed the line-joiners too on the first read; only just noticed them while tracing further. < 1277304090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't get how #> is quoted properly for C though < 1277304104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /* < 1277304108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh up there < 1277304109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277304132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FWIW that applet also doesn't print a space after . < 1277304196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how did you find that applet? < 1277304202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh, well... the spec does say it should. (In contrast to the undefined-handling bit, which it is silent about.) < 1277304204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linked from that stack overflow < 1277304208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep < 1277304320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should report a bug < 1277304407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just commented on reddit instead < 1277304430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm < 1277305454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277305477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do you have the "523" in your name? < 1277305492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's my email address, which was originally assigned at random < 1277305508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1277305510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're going to force an arbitrary number into my email at random, I'm going to use it everywhere just so it becomes non-arbitrary! That'll show them! < 1277305525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's annoying to type! < 1277305528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more amusingly, the number seems to have some significance in Discordianism, although I wasn't aware of this at the time < 1277305531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you have tab-complete? < 1277305539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, until you get tabbing. < 1277305542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose most three-digit numbers are significant to something < 1277305554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 1000 of them? < 1277305560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1277305577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 900 of them? < 1277305599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think so, 900 isn't a lot given the number of things in the world there are to be significant to < 1277305694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1277305712 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, defragmenting my dpkg database takes a long time. < 1277305736 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp -a info info.new .... running. < 1277305785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that defrag? < 1277305800 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it for a second < 1277305811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because files fragment when they're made larger < 1277305822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's creating a new file from scratch, which will therefore be created in a defragged state < 1277305826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1277305827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, tab complete < 1277305830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ^C'd it and put time around it. < 1277305835 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what happens. < 1277305844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what filesystem are you using, anyway? fragmentation doesn't hurt performance on ext2/3/4 until they're around 90% full < 1277305846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you can't tab-complete "tab-complete". < 1277305853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it takes ages to type. < 1277305856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tab-complete < 1277305858 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can < 1277305862 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my dpkg db has 30k tiny, tiny, files in it < 1277305875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why would you need that? < 1277305882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-complete, what if I need it to be capital? < 1277305883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I meant tab complete ais523 < 1277305896 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahah < 1277305903 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironic that I changed my nick, then < 1277305907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway you could script your client to tab complete tab complete < 1277305910 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i'm doing this, i got a popup complaining about my diskspace running low < 1277305912 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1277305920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, what thing? < 1277305948 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time [`cp -a info info.new2`] < 1277305961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I would suggest using xfs < 1277305966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then xfs_fsr defrags < 1277305969 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277305972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, hm? < 1277305980 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 'no'. < 1277305989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use a mix of xfs, jfs, ext4 and ext3 < 1277305994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext3 is just for /boot < 1277306006 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use a mix of asian, caucasian, and black lovers < 1277306012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I still use grub 1 it seems. Don't fix what isn't broken and so on < 1277306017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially true for bootloaders < 1277306020 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 3m51.322s < 1277306020 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.296s < 1277306020 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m2.440s < 1277306043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, IO waiting most then < 1277306060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1277306060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idle would be neither user nor sys < 1277306069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still be wall clock < 1277306084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, oh thought you were wondering about user+sys << real < 1277306084 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1277306090 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1277306102 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know the difference between those numbers < 1277306106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277306142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real is actual time. user is active time in user space, and sys is active time in kernel. With active time I mean "not spent being idle or running other tasks" < 1277306174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, now you know < 1277306179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's install something and see if it runs fast < 1277306269 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... < 1277306287 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want to take take two, 2-and-a-half hour long midterms. < 1277306293 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 minutes away < 1277306300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1277306302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exams are fun < 1277306314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1277306357 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drink a lot of water. < 1277306380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, doing that didn't really help much at all < 1277306386 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least now my python is upgraded < 1277306413 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :studying and stress are not as fun. < 1277306422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets stressed out by big tests these days. Not in the past.
< 1277306692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any decent console-based web browsers? < 1277306701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is my computer getting slower these days. < 1277306702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of them seem to be capable of JavaScript. < 1277306718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it's tired before the holidays. < 1277306756 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr hurr. < 1277306765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least elinks does a bit of JavaScript. < 1277306774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought even lynx had some sort of a patch. < 1277306791 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no really. Does cleaning out dust and stuff noticably speed up a computer? I'm at a loss. I assume it's just malfunctioning more. < 1277306810 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost hear a new strange noise everytime I turn it on. < 1277306998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha. could you imagine trying to support Javascript's DOM on a command line interface? < 1277307051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1277307069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't say command-line, I said console. < 1277307141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, I use "console" and "command-line" to mean the same thing, though I guess technically they're not. < 1277307193 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It just seems like the DOM has a lot of visual elements that you couldn't really support (/well/, at least) on a console display. < 1277307204 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't the same thing, but they're usually used together < 1277307213 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, though, it does make a difference < 1277307251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *is* a command line, come to think of it? < 1277307265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a command-line utility? < 1277307281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One which only inputs and outputs characters in a nice, normal way? < 1277307299 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a shell utility I guess. Are you looking for a formal definition? < 1277307305 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the intuitive notion is obvious, otherwise. < 1277307324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose. < 1277307334 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi, Python shell, Erlang shell. I would count those as command lines < 1277307348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could just as easily appear and serve as an Operating System environment when I run sh. < 1277307358 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if made to do so. < 1277307377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about Emacs or vi? < 1277307383 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a command-line utility is one that has a command line < 1277307390 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which uses it as the major method of interaction < 1277307392 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus vi isn't, ed is < 1277307425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1277307479 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually more curious to what a "console" technically is. < 1277307531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what seperates it from a window manager? Purely the way in which they structure on-screen elements? < 1277307603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A console is a grid of characters. < 1277307605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even the universally-reviled movement 2? :P < 1277307642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GUI works as a grid of pixels. < 1277307666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a metaGUI is a grid of grids of pixels. < 1277307726 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. interesting. You know I can't say I've ever programmed a GUI < 1277307735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started trying. < 1277307737 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have a few years of self-taught programming experience. I've never needed to bother. < 1277307742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up shortly after. < 1277307757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing UIs is for masochists. < 1277307765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try to make a GUI program of some kind. I'm trying to think of something that wouldn't be too hefty of a project though. < 1277307774 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for practice. < 1277307839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm sure the programming experience depends heavily on the library in use. < 1277307843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a horrible suspicion that these days you can learn to program without going anywhere near a console. < 1277307884 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You are correct. My friend, who is a freshman CS major and just starting to learn C# as his first language... has only ever touched a console because we use version control for one of our projects. < 1277307896 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before that he had not touched one. Did everything in Visual Studio < 1277307906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleurgh. < 1277307926 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- It's not evil. There's just more tools in graphical environments these days. < 1277307946 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at some point you have to become at least semi-comfortable with a command line < 1277307955 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an expert. But I can do some basic things. < 1277307975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I haven't figured out is xarg. It looks very cool but I never get around to learning how it works. < 1277307993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xargs < 1277308002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man xargs? < 1277308018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just did out of curiousity. Kind of busy studying though, so I'll probably read later. < 1277308040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it reads lines from stdin, tacks them onto the first non-option argument, then executes the result. < 1277308073 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well that's simple enough. Is there no inline substition mechanism like a printf string? < 1277308074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So find ~ | xargs shred will overwrite every file in your home directory with random junk. < 1277308077 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice. < 1277308093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are more complex things, but that's the basic idea. < 1277308121 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. That sounds useful at least. I bet you could condense a pretty large-scale sysadmin operation down to one line with xargs < 1277308364 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't put megabytes of stuff on the command line < 1277308378 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs will split a line up for you automatically if it wouldn't all fit < 1277308393 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"megabytes of stuff" as in the text of the actual command or the data being processed? < 1277308399 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text of the command < 1277308406 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can easily happen in some cases where you'd want to use xargs < 1277308408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well yeah. It'd be unwieldy too. < 1277308428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the point it's likely wise to switch to a script. < 1277308433 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls | xargs echo < 1277308439 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, hackego isn't here < 1277308445 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you see what that would do, though < 1277308457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what happened to HackEgo? < 1277308474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Even the universally-reviled movement 2? :P <-- hm? < 1277308489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I liked the second movement preview yes < 1277308490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put only four kilobytes into exec's arguments safely in a POSIX system (POSIX_ARG_MAX == 4096), though many allow more. < 1277308502 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick with xargs echo is that it replaces all newlines by spaces < 1277308516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, perhaps the ending of it need some work. Very sudden < 1277308522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that could be used as an effect < 1277308525 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277308525 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277308533 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The ending was simply that I haven't written any more yet :P < 1277308550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a whole minor section in that part, then back to the major theme, but I haven't written it all. < 1277308565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah, it could be intentional, hard to tell < 1277308585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, much better than the op11 previews btw < 1277308603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there wasn't an op11. < 1277308611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There wasn't an op12. < 1277308622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Op. 11 previews I ended up changing almost everything between the last preview and what I decided was "done" :P < 1277308622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to "getconf ARG_MAX", my system lets you put two megabytes of stuff in. < 1277308653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I didn't listen to all. Just the last string version < 1277308664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, couldn't tell which was the current version < 1277308667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1277308682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The String Quartet WIPPs are bad :P < 1277308683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, LINE_MAX is 2048. < 1277308712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm haven't listened to final op11 recently < 1277308714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does so
< 1277308751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinkin' of calling Opus 13 "Three Works in Three", since all three movements ended up being in three due to having been split from one overenthusiastic work originally. The subparts could be "Scherzo in Three", "Nocturne in Three" and "Finale in Three" < 1277308771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although having a nocturne in the middle of a work is kinda weird I guess ... < 1277308782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, too much disharmonious in op11 for my taste. It is technically good, just not my taste < 1277308812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use Rhythmbox? Know how to set it up so it doesn't do all that "start-up silently as a notification icon thing (dunno the technical term for it)" < 1277308817 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277308823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be the "starting in the system tray" in Windows-speak. < 1277308826 0 :tab-complete!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1277308826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-the < 1277308876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taskbar notification area", actually. < 1277308889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, btw you write that you aren't going to use zee3 for the game. But what about zee1? I can't imagine that one fitting either < 1277308913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh btw, how is the game zee coming along? it is such a cool idea I hope the answer is "very nicely" < 1277308932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is there anything playable yet? < 1277308944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is "eternally stalled argh getting storylines is annoying". But as of yesterday I have an idea for a storyline, which I can get photos of and maybe have something playable in two-three weeks. < 1277308948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even if buggy and only half complete. Some screenshots perhaps? < 1277308960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wasn't it a maze game it said? < 1277308964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's this feather thing I've heard about? < 1277308973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, don't ask < 1277308977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sort of ... it's a "maze" of images. < 1277308999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't really fit any category of games, so I'm calling it an "image-based maze game" because that's the closest I can get :P < 1277309017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay. Any mockup images or anything? I mean, just to see what you mean < 1277309021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sketches or such perhaps < 1277309073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: sounds like a puzzle game to me, genre-wize < 1277309075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*genre-wise < 1277309079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://codu.org/projects/zee/test/zee.html < 1277309080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a varied genre < 1277309088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, it's broadly within the genre "puzzle games" no doubt. < 1277309110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just a test of the zooming features, mind you. < 1277309113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does it need the plugin? I don't have flash. and won't install it either < 1277309123 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only needs that to play music online. < 1277309129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pointless, so feel free to ignore it. < 1277309150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah high res image behind it < 1277309150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1277309151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it one of the things Man Was Not Meant To Kno. < 1277309170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm with an accurate lens model and accurate positioning and orientation info of camera you should be able to reconstruct a 3D model with enough photos from different locations < 1277309170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about it drives me insane, so possibly < 1277309186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah. < 1277309210 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Good thing I have exactly zero need or desire to do that. < 1277309210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've got sufficiently good at not thinking about it that I can't even give a remotely accurate description without concentrating < 1277309215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an esolang, anyway < 1277309216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what *is* it? < 1277309218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no it was just general musing :P < 1277309229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loosely? < 1277309232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that isn't speccedyet < 1277309234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*specced yet < 1277309238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it involves retroactive changes < 1277309249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, would be nice to see the extrapolate thingy < 1277309266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also I hit a bug in the software. It is impossible to enhance infinitely ;) < 1277309270 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277309279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF. < 1277309298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have some code for extrapolation, but it's really just "push on this square when at least at zoom level X, get a new photo" < 1277309304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't believe in that *runs* < 1277309334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you write a spec, any updates will have to have lower version numbers and dates to the first version < 1277309355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that idea < 1277309357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway with rendering a 3D model you could do the infinite zoom stuff. < 1277309361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, every version should have the same date < 1277309386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You are not the first person to suggest it. It's amazing how I make a game idea that's just BARELY accomplishable, so people say "you should do this utterly unaccomplishable thing instead" < 1277309418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no I suggest that will be easier < 1277309431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, depends on how good you are at 3D modelling and such of course < 1277309479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you want to make a 3D model that's A) photorealistic and B) sufficiently detailed that you can zoom up to just short of looking at the atoms? < 1277309500 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277309506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay better and easy suggestion: There should be a way to pan without having to reset. I just missed something at the edge of the image and now there is no possible way to pan to it < 1277309534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it seems impossible to zoom on stuff near the edge anyway it ends up a bit inwards < 1277309541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. I will add it to my TODO list. < 1277309555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least rather tricky to do that < 1277309565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always zooms such that wherever your cursor is remains the same, so you would have to click the very rightmost pixel to zoom on the very rightmost edge. < 1277309580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yep, somewhat tricky < 1277309582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it's like TwoDucks? < 1277309592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely, but a lot better < 1277309604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, this thing is 114 dpi, so very tricky < 1277309606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it isn't uncomputable, so in theory you can implement it < 1277309614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now with More Ducks™ < 1277309617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, though, I go mad when I try < 1277309645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, approximately, does it work? < 1277309649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Part of that is just "don't put clues at the edge of the photo", the other part is panning, I don't think there's some more intelligent method of zooming. < 1277309665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, true < 1277309692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what will the goal be? finding a certain image? solving a crime with clues from the images? < 1277309708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Solve a crime by finding clues (or catching the perpetrator red-handed) within the image. < 1277309792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm needs higher res images. There is some small yellow thing on the back of one of the road signs. Can't zoom in to see what it is < 1277309800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1277309805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUSPENSION < 1277309805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF < 1277309808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISBELIEF < 1277309823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no no. I meant You need very high res pictures for the "real" version < 1277309827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just this test < 1277309848 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You just have to visualize it from the 5th dimension, is all... < 1277309861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That picutre is about as high-res as we can realistically expect to get. < 1277309861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't know what you were talking about, and I assumed Feather. < 1277309869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: suprisingly that isn't the hard part < 1277309874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like 12MP < 1277309881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, idea: you can use multiple images. Like one taken while zoomed out. Then zoom in with the optical zoom to take images of the different parts. < 1277309886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Feather's going to get a worse reputation than MAGENTA at this rate < 1277309889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can switch between them as needed < 1277309896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MAGENTA? < 1277309899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1277309903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That picture is a stitching of a bunch of images zoomed maximally on my camera, and does exactly that. < 1277309904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an allegedly cursed esolang < 1277309904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway should make food < 1277309912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the wiki has an article about it < 1277309914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't mine < 1277309914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh < 1277309918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGENTA, not Magenta? < 1277309922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to restart my computer or the BotNet's gonna get me, sez Microsoft. < 1277309923 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If I had better zoom, I could zoom farther I suppose, and take a crapload of pictures :P < 1277309930 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277309930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall a Magenta that matches the description but I don't think it was all-caps < 1277309932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not sure if it's in allcaps < 1277309945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to be: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Magenta < 1277309951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm I didn't see any stitches < 1277309967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Magenta has pretty much opposite design goals from INTERCAL, and ends up looking rather similar as a result < 1277309970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so no parallax I guess < 1277309973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's one or two places where it misstitched and is noticeable, otherwise it did a pretty good job. < 1277309982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hugin I presume? < 1277309986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1277309997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I *hate* Geocities. < 1277310007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much esolang stuff was on it. < 1277310011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, idea: you know about enfuse right? < 1277310022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so have a "magic" denoise button as well < 1277310025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would fit the theme < 1277310053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, enfuse can average multiple pictures to reduce noise. You would need a tripod however < 1277310072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since parallax there would give you weird stuff < 1277310074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a tripod. I didn't realize enfuse could do that, but that's pretty much awesome. < 1277310116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about now? < 1277310117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, in *theory* you could rotate the camera half a pixel or such and then actually interpolate a higher res. IIRC they do that kind of stuff in telescopes and such < 1277310132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, probably not feasible with normal camera and such though < 1277310148 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so much :P < 1277310153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really need is an autotripod. < 1277310159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm? < 1277310161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would just do all the rotations and snap pictures for me. < 1277310165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that such a thing exists :P < 1277310168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh I built on in lego < 1277310177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, based on this idea: http://www.philohome.com/panobot2/panobot2.htm < 1277310177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, ship it. < 1277310181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, doesn't do up/down < 1277310186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well foo! < 1277310189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also it is very limited to my camera < 1277310200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277310202 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277310216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How high-quality is your camera? MP and optical zoom level? < 1277310223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enfuse's averaging is very nice for us people with a compact digicam with a tiny, horribly noisy sensor. < 1277310243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 9 MP. 28-200 optical zoom in 35 mm equiv. RAW files are 12 bits / channel < 1277310261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, YOU'RE definitely taking photos for ZEE :P < 1277310264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Minolta Dimage A2 < 1277310274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, a rather old "segment below DSLR" camera < 1277310285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh and it has noise issues. Plus a few dead pixels < 1277310293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing it's age < 1277310303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this Lumix DMC-FZ8 cam from approximately the same category, but no lego tripod-bot. < 1277310316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the noise stuff have only started getting noticeable the last 2 years or such < 1277310320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a lego tripod-bot, how do you even live with yourself? < 1277310326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway my lego thing needs a sturdy table < 1277310332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not mount on my tripod, too heavy < 1277310350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to come up with a working solution for that < 1277310385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly a hundred-kilogram tripod? A joy to move around! < 1277310392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, here is a self-enhancing image of the lego thingy: http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/panobot/panobot_1433.jpg < 1277310397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, progressive jpeg < 1277310459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have a ball head tripod. < 1277310482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but the screw hole on the camera is not centered in any direction relative the no-parallax point < 1277310501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way right of lens and way too far back < 1277310518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, fizzie: tell me if that image loads < 1277310524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not I'm going to upload it elsewhere < 1277310528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use four tripods like that and build a table surface that you can mount on such at every corner. < 1277310530 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E_WORKSFORME < 1277310537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm < 1277310541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, what does it do other than rotate? < 1277310558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, push the trigger using pneumatics < 1277310576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course it use a rotation sensor to space the photos roughly equally < 1277310577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't quite wait for the whole image, but it did seem to be loading. (Am on a phone again.) < 1277310580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's pretty cool. < 1277310610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway if I take photos it is you who is going to stitch. My computers are no longer up to the task < 1277310613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277310622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1277310630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you will get 93 MB tiff even with only 8 bits per channel < 1277310633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Next, extended exposure-bracketing using a lot of twiddling with the camera's control buttons. < 1277310643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a least zoom 360° pano < 1277310675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually it is a wheel. And I did consider turning that. However I think I'm almost out of lego after that thing < 1277310681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how sturdy it is internally < 1277310732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway, let me find link to panoramas I uploaded. Do you want to zoomed to 30% variant or the full zoom? < 1277310749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to go to work :P < 1277310752 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baheeee :P < 1277310756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277310756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1277310791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have this very old Canon two-megapixels-or-a-bit-less eats-AA-batteries-like-an-electric-horse camera, which was otherwise utterly unremarkable, except that if you plugged the USB cable in, gphoto2 could remote-control it partially (and the proprietary windows app could even change the image-taking settings). < 1277310792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, full res: http://omploader.org/vNHAyNw scaled to 30%: http://omploader.org/vNGx0Mw < 1277310821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mine supports that by "costs extra" windows app < 1277310822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1277310835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and there is a 4 pin connector for remote trigger as well < 1277310855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what the different pins do < 1277310868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's even worse. At least if the app is free, you can always usbdump it and reverse-engineer. < 1277310906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there was some app on linux for an older model of the same series but apparently the protocol is completely different for the new model < 1277311010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This new one only does USB-storage and then that printer-pictbridge-whatever. The boring. < 1277311078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is another strange thing, they ship an extra iron core that you are instructed to put on the usb cable if you use the remote control feature < 1277311096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you don't need it for just the usb storage feature I guess < 1277311117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense to me < 1277311138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, curious. < 1277311191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is that one of those iron rings that you clip around a cable? < 1277311204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're designed to dampen high-frequency interference < 1277311210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the remote-control protocol has a self-destruct command and they don't want interference accidentally triggering it. < 1277311217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1277311218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds like audio woo. < 1277311229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like those $500 cables on Amazon. < 1277311234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is only caused by high-frequency circuits; I can imagine that a remote control circuit is high-frequency but nothing else on there is < 1277311235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might work in this case. < 1277311244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm actually you are supposed to put it on remote trigger cable if you buy that extra instead < 1277311251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, they are needed, they prevent high-frequency noise reducing your bandwidth < 1277311260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a fair price for those things is a few pennies, or cents < 1277311277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the remote uses IR doesn't it? < 1277311284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on a camera? no < 1277311293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, radio? < 1277311297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, please read the whole bit instead < 1277311300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*faceplam* < 1277311308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :palm* < 1277311330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a cable. It's not wireless at all. < 1277311334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1277311343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are IR-remotable cameras, though. < 1277311359 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277311364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a N900 app to control some of them. < 1277311368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is a bad idea though, Since CCDs pick up IR. Just aim a remote at your mobile camera and check < 1277311411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would thus interfere with the image taking < 1277311460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in theory < 1277311463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put a IR filter in if you want, perhaps. < 1277311500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they tend to reduce image quality in the visible spectrum as well to some degree iirc? < 1277311547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about quality (noticeably), but light levels in general at least. < 1277311923 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277311971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1277312002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover" < 1277312008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the pretty large zoom in the FZ8; it's 36-432mm in 35mm-equiv terms, and doesn't have any especial problems at the far end. A full-sphere panorama from that would have very many pixels indeed, though as a mortal I couldn't imagine taking one manually. < 1277312038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, given up completely? < 1277312052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, there's no way to play on "oerjan". < 1277312088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you know i'm not very fond of people who won't even let me _give up_ peacefully < 1277312099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1277312119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was fun while it lasted. < 1277312121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's that amulet doing there at the end?" was my first thought after seeing oerjan's greeting. < 1277312160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much Nethack? < 1277312190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played any in months; I guess it was just some sort of flashback. < 1277312196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error, line 553: Mismatched amulet. < 1277312205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1277312208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missing closing amulet. < 1277312218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched ARMOR. < 1277312227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, let's make that into a language! < 1277312234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow! < 1277312499 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277312610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, "foo bar" -> "foo foo"; "foobar" -> "foobfo" < 1277312614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what is going on here < 1277312677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is supposed to echo back the thins you send. Not echo back some garbage < 1277312724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overwriting with "foo" (or the string itself) starting from index 4? < 1277312748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well not as easy. Sometimes it seems to be from index 5 < 1277312748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not changing the length. < 1277312751 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277312753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1277312761 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277312773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and sometimes it changes the length too < 1277312807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay now it just did tetetetet for "test test test" < 1277312830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least it seems to do the same thing every time for a given string < 1277312926 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277312975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, valgrind on the app finds nothing :/ < 1277313031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As a bonus, "mismatched armor" sounds like a medieval fashion faux pas. < 1277313035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277313053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a perfectly valid algorithm, just not the same you'd want it to be. < 1277313055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm not sure if it is the usb ir towering failing to echo correctly or something in the software < 1277313061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be in the kernel driver < 1277313101 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277313111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so invalid backslash escapes would generate "A %c can't stand next to a throne!" < 1277313123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that seems a very nethackish error message < 1277313127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it really does always the same thing for the same string, it's probably not random hardware failure. Could be deterministic hardware issue, of course. < 1277313175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screen already has those nethacky error messages, they're occasionally amusing too. < 1277313208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, really? < 1277313211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example? < 1277313279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of something erroneous here. < 1277313366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woof!! < 1277313403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/nethack.txt has the full list. < 1277313434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those. < 1277313452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First is the original message, second the translation, in the nethacktrans array. < 1277313512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what about mismatched {}? < 1277313540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, erroneous }s are easy. < 1277313564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You fall into a pool of water! You sink. You drown..." < 1277313601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I have never lived for long enough in Nethack to die from drowning.) < 1277313619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the probable inaccuracy of this message. < 1277313649 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to live long; just drink from a fountain until it results in a sufficiently well placed pool of water < 1277313650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{"Aborted because of window size change.", "KAABLAMM!!! You triggered a land mine!"}, < 1277313660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's a bit arbitrary. < 1277313679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense if you increased the window size < 1277313684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so much for a decrease < 1277313864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1277313878 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I wonder if you can prove that circular reasoning can be logically valid. < 1277313882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... look at recursion. < 1277313895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that circular reasoning? < 1277313909 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not that I can tell. There is no reasoning yet. Merely a proposition. < 1277313919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion isn't circular unless it's infinite < 1277313926 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right. < 1277313938 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just reading Descartes foundationalism stuff < 1277313943 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems based on a circular premise. < 1277313986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some strange macro _IOW on linux. I can't find the docs for it < 1277313989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl related < 1277313989 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... perhaps if there is a condition somewhere, it could be proved that the circularity of the reasoning is defensible because it rests on a non-circular termination condition. < 1277313991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much I know < 1277314003 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's merely a thought. I haven't taken any real effort to find this condition. < 1277314012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man ioctl doesn't have it < 1277314027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google does. < 1277314029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick Googling gives http://h30097.www3.hp.com/docs/dev_doc/DOCUMENTATION/HTML/DDK_R2/DOCS/HTML/MAN/MAN9/0029___R.HTM < 1277314037 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277314044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have moral objections to Googling. < 1277314072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is tru64 < 1277314073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not linux < 1277314096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the headers, though; I've seen it. < 1277314098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's a clue. < 1277314112 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277314118 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS LIEK WOOH < 1277314136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need the macro for, though? < 1277314137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes but it's usage doesn't match what is documented there < 1277314146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, to debug this faulty code using it < 1277314153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleurgh, nested macros. < 1277314164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the strength to track it down. < 1277314169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some other options to valgrind revealed an valgrind error on a line containing that < 1277314183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl(tty->fd, _IOW('u', 0xc8, int), timeout); < 1277314202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tty->fd is a char device, not a tty though confusingly < 1277314206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm-generic/ioctl.h < 1277314216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit complex though. < 1277314219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* used to create numbers */ < 1277314226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is all the docs in my copy of that file < 1277314254 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like enough docs for anybody. < 1277314258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1277314272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's an or of the involved numbers, some bitshifts, and sizeof the type involved too. < 1277314287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The great thing about circular reasoning is that it's circular. < 1277314325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it should involve any memory references or anything, it just combines those arguments into a number. < 1277314345 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277314345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277314358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Address 0xfa is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd is the error. But it doesn't seem to be passed anywhere < 1277314368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277314373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the parameter. Which is an integer < 1277314376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a pointer < 1277314377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1277314404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, _IOW yields a ioctl-related id-y number, not a pointer. < 1277314416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something must be confused there. < 1277314423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it is the timeout that equals to 0xfa < 1277314439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1277314455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're usually supposed to pass in a pointer to a value. < 1277314463 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something unwholesome about telling VMWare and VirtualBox what the guest OS is. < 1277314470 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1277314479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&timeout in your case. < 1277314494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, AFAIK it just affects the default settings on VirtualBox. < 1277314499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should it be hm? < 1277314516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on the ioctl really. < 1277314529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well what is the ioctl _IOW('u', 0xc8, int) I wonder < 1277314547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it has the value 0x400475C8 according to gdb < 1277314558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1277314562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, everybody! < 1277314568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0xc8'th ioctl in group 'u' that will take an int-sized argument. < 1277314586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't find docs for this driver in fact < 1277314589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as man page at least < 1277314603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe it's possible to make a ioctl-handling driver that will treat the third argument as a raw value. < 1277314625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But usually it is an address, in that case pointing to an int. < 1277314656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be just that valgrind assumes the third parameter is always an address. < 1277314685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(While your screwy driver perhaps doesn't treat it as one.) < 1277314703 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-20-119.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277314716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ioctl man page does say: < 1277314719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The second argument is a device-dependent request code. The third argument is an untyped < 1277314722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pointer to memory. It's traditionally char *argp (from the days before void * was valid < 1277314725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C), and will be so named for this discussion. < 1277314764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess nothing should prevent the driver from treating the value of the address as an integer to pass. < 1277314776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not good behaviour though. < 1277314822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might also be impossible in some systems, if the kernel handles copying the request-sized memory block from userland to the driver.) < 1277314826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm perhaps < 1277314832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm checking the driver source atm < 1277314841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277314879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&timeout would probably quiet down valgrind, but perhaps you have a special case(tm) there. < 1277314908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does one find it in the driver I wonder < 1277314925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I can't fix 0xc8 or 0x400475C8 in there < 1277314953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only timeout I can find is a module parameter < 1277314957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about that; I haven't done much driver-fiddling. One would think 0xc8 would be there somewhere. < 1277314974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly in some include file though. < 1277314998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a mainline kernel driver, or something stranger? < 1277315015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mainline < 1277315018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers/usb/misc/legousbtower.c in case < 1277315022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case* < 1277315061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any help to figure out ioctls would be helpful < 1277315064 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277315070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah tautology club next < 1277315074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know what I mean < 1277315086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hi < 1277315098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1277315171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " * - added ioctl functionality to set timeouts" in the changelog commentary, that's probably it. Can't say I know where it's defined, though; it should be in the struct file_operations tower_fops, as a ioctl member. That'd be the logical place. < 1277315212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003 hm < 1277315214 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Moo < 1277315225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think that may be from before mainlining < 1277315230 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root < 1277315300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they removed the ioctl at some point (or replaced it with a sysfs node or something) and didn't bother to update that changelog, or the source code you have there. < 1277315308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless the code's from a different source.) < 1277315314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I checked against last 2.4 variant < 1277315317 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sixhoustennis < 1277315323 0 :sixhoustennis!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sixhourtennis < 1277315326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has ioctl stuff in the fops thingy < 1277315361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even possible that the timeouts it's talking about are those which are now only available as module parameters. < 1277315402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which makes no sense < 1277315477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit awkward, since you can only change them at load-time, because of that 0 there. (Otherwise there'd be a sysfs node for it.) < 1277315524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit strange that they haven't made those sysfs-changeable, because the driver code looks like it'd work just fine even if the timeouts are changed without notifying the module, like they are if you sysfs-export them. < 1277315578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which zero? < 1277315598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The third parameter of module_param(). < 1277315602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // LegoUSB doesn't work with select(), so just set a read < 1277315602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // timeout and then later check to see if the read timed out < 1277315602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // without reading data. < 1277315603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277315617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a mention of implementing poll there < 1277315626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could switch to the code for the serial tower < 1277315641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a usual permissions-mask, and if you put a non-zero value there, the kernel will automagically export that parameter via sysfs and make it modifiable. < 1277315661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277315675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that comment from your non-working source code? < 1277315727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so; I don't think there's // comments in the driver. < 1277315735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1277315753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case it's possible that it should be updated to use non-blocking IO with a timeout. It looks as if the current driver should support that. < 1277315763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dead upstream mostly < 1277315771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so yeah, I have some local patches to this < 1277315787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like the read_timeout module_param says: "Some legacy software expects blocking reads to time out." Yours is one of them, apparently. < 1277315808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but it wants to set it's own time out! < 1277315817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have read_timeout enabled by default (at 200 ms), so if that value is okay for the code, you could possibly just throw out the ioctl. < 1277315835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it wants 250 ms < 1277315838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1277315842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes other values < 1277315872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: VMWare has wronged me one too many times, so I'm trying VirtualBox. Thought you might be interested to know, since you mentioned it to me. < 1277315912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1277315938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, hm? "* [Gregor-W] (836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111): proton.research.microsoft.com/131.107.65.111 - htt" < 1277315941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277315949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft? < 1277315957 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahahaha < 1277315960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh. Well, if you want the code to be able to use those timeouts it specifies, you can also patch the kernel, and replace the ioctl with a sysfs write. < 1277315991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's a microsoftean spy on the esoteric language marketplace, huh?! < 1277316012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well. I'm probably going to try to replace the code with select() since that is available for the serial tower code < 1277316033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, btw those panos: Gregor, full res: http://omploader.org/vNHAyNw scaled to 30%: http://omploader.org/vNGx0Mw < 1277316042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, would probably crash IE though :P < 1277316052 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything crashes IE *shrugs* < 1277316063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, yeah the full res one is a 12 MB jpg < 1277316067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :progressive < 1277316117 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :360-degree panoramas are always weird lookin' :P < 1277316146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you look at them with a real panorama-viewer that does projection-correction to the "usual" way (and only shows a tiny region of it, of course). < 1277316161 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really the "tiny region of it" part is the whole fix :P < 1277316192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more than just cropping a rectangular region out of it. < 1277316230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, with proper projection mangling you can crop a larger region of the panorama out and have it still look "normal" than if you just crop. < 1277316259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, was there a photo of your actual lego construction anywhere? < 1277316420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: back in the days of IE4, I wrote a webpage which was just a frameset, with each of the frames the webpage itself < 1277316432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you tried to open it in IE4, it not only crashed the browser, but also took out the Start toolbar < 1277316436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no obvious way to get it back < 1277316470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun, it popped up a dialog box "internet explorer is using a lot of memory, do you want to terminate it?" but the same thing happened whether you pressed yes or no < 1277316511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't killing the explorer.exe proecess (or whatever the name was) usually fix missing desktop components. < 1277316514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well it seems to work < 1277316542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes a few. Site may be slow: http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/panobot/ < 1277316613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on NT based systems certainly, less sure about 9x < 1277316632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sometimes you manually have to start it againm < 1277316634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again* < 1277316636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in NT-based systems, it respawns < 1277316643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 9x, it doesn't; the solution would be to /run/ explorer.exe < 1277316647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't always under XP for me < 1277316654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd better hope you have a widget on what's left of the desktop to let you run it < 1277316655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes had to run it manually even on XP < 1277316674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win+r worked < 1277316692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh wait, 9x didn't have process manager did it? < 1277316730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not connected to control-alt-del, IIRC < 1277316733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of task manager. I can't recall whether it could run things or not. < 1277316755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it didn't always appear at all. < 1277316830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you will love this crazy indention for "one level": one tab + one space < 1277316832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite wtf < 1277316837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I love it < 1277316853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two levels, is it tab tab space space, or tab space tab space? < 1277316886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's tab tab < 1277316887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no space < 1277316902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a typo when making the function < 1277316908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to indent to tab+space by mistake < 1277316911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is consistent in the entire file < 1277316913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the editor preserves your indentation < 1277316923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and some other files < 1277316928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all other files, but several < 1277316933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, ctrl-alt-del on 9x spawned the task manager directly, not the lock-screen/task-manager/etc. menu of NT. Though sometimes it just spawned the "system is busy" bluescreen, from which you could theoretically resume waiting or reboot. Not that those options always worked either. < 1277316952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wasn't the task manager very limited on 9x? < 1277316959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, no load tab or such < 1277316964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, ctrl-alt-del on 95 (at least) picked an application using various heuristics, and asked you whether you wanted to kill it or not < 1277316980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it showed a box to select which one iirc < 1277316986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was 98 < 1277316986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that 98? < 1277316989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277317022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 98 app-killer box is probably the "task manager" I remember. I doubt it had "run" options. < 1277317073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have some VMs to test these things on, wouldn't have to rely on fallible memory. < 1277317116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1277317223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia: < 1277317227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows Me, temporarily halts the entire system, and presents a window which lists currently running processes, and can be used to notify them that they should end, or, when they don't respond, kill them. The user can press Control-Alt-Delete again to perform a soft reboot. < 1277317257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's win 3.1 which asks you if you want to kill the "current" task. < 1277317336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the is-busy screen I remembered: "In Windows 9x, pressing the combination a second time if the process listing has not appeared will display a blue screen from which the user can reboot the system by pressing the combination a third time; other times the system restarts on the second Ctrl-Alt-Delete combination." < 1277317360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, wow I'm showing my age :) < 1277317583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure is good to have an encyclopedia which knows in extreme detail what happens on the three-finger salute on various Win versions. (For XP, it matter whether the computer is part of a domain and whether the welcome screen is enabled.) < 1277317944 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277318794 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277318853 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277319462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523: I remember pre-OSX doing the "guessing process" bit as well < 1277319499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc it usually failed to restart with ctrl-alt-del < 1277319836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn, I think I've had a fair amount of success restarting with command-control-powerbutton. The "force-quit" key (command-option-esc, was it?) wasn't always so lucky. < 1277319962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277320087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for some reason I have the phrase "komento-optio-omena" (lit. "command-option-apple") stuck in my head, even though it makes no sense, since the command key *is* the apple key. < 1277320127 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vNHE3dQ < 1277320141 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes peoples' grammar just confuse me. < 1277320157 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confuseS hyuk hyuk < 1277320661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277320692 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277320780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I find I am thinking about a Feather-like language, God help me. < 1277320810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing I have so far is that, at the end of the program, there must be some instructions to create the inital program and send it back in time. < 1277320921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of a self-quine. < 1277320959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that happens with Feather too < 1277320964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for much the same reason < 1277320968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only, an infinite number of times < 1277320983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it happens n times where n is finite, but any time its value would become relevant, it's retroactively increased < 1277320988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's effectively infinite < 1277321113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a fixed point, of sorts? < 1277321151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sort-of like that < 1277321151 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it sounds like nothing's fixed, there... < 1277321164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken point. < 1277321186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277321221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do mathematicians call those "fixpoints" to disambiguate them from fixed-point arithmetic? < 1277321233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cos I know I've seen that term. < 1277321269 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277321271 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next I'm going to get into recursive sequences having floating points. Stop me. < 1277321326 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14CA72.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277321358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: quick, do something saner! < 1277321372 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... uh... < 1277321389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing Ubuntu Server 10.04. < 1277321397 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nice and banal computer usage. < 1277321433 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Packages! Partitions! Progress bars! NORMAL. < 1277321488 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, we do have a "time travel" feature where I work. < 1277321505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lets you preview a webpage as if you were viewing it at a given time and date. < 1277321515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, that's where it ends. < 1277321581 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So install AT&T UNIX System V R4 instead! < 1277321615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion humor never gets old < 1277321640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a tv show with mathematics in it :( < 1277321739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen what term? < 1277321765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "fixpoint", apparently as an abbreviation for "fixed point" < 1277321770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1277321780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, thought so, good to know. < 1277321806 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that anyone uses fixed-point arithmetic these days :) < 1277321837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's not a very useful term, fixed points are abbreviated not because of that, but because that term is very useful < 1277321843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that that that < 1277321880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the kinds of stuff where you need the term a lot at least :-) < 1277321885 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer "fixie"! "This function has a fixie..." < 1277321904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that collides with a kind of one-speed hipster bicycle which lacks brakes. < 1277321910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get almost that short by saying "f fixes x" < 1277322016 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that f fixes AT x, doesn't it? < 1277322041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277322042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277322049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that maybe work too, but nh < 1277322056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*may < 1277322076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just "f fixes x" has google results) < 1277322130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not many though) < 1277322172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not that anyone uses fixed-point arithmetic these days :) <-- um < 1277322173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded < 1277322182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not everything has FPUs < 1277322199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Smiley indicates I am DEAD SERIOUS. < 1277322209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, of course! < 1277322210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one uses fpu's nowadays < 1277322214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hah < 1277322219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum ratios are the way to go < 1277322226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..rationals that is < 1277322249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah indeed I was just going to ask about sqrt(2) and such < 1277322261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who believes in that kind of stuff anyhow < 1277322277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in what stuff? square roots? irrational numbers? < 1277322312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in complete metric spaces < 1277322352 0 :sixhourtennis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277322387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well aren't you going to tell the obvious joke? < 1277322387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277322397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't know the obvious joke < 1277322405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure what the joke would be, exactly < 1277322422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277322436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I guess it isn't very obvious then < 1277322444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean there are a few rather believable examples of complete metric spaces < 1277322461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I can't say I'm familiar with the term at all < 1277322501 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-20-119.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277322503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you're in luck because i love talking about completeness < 1277322510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know metric spaces? < 1277322523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I heard the term < 1277322524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1277322538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is among other things a metric space < 1277322544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means there's a distance function. < 1277322545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, or is that like euclidian, manhattan and such? < 1277322547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277322548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277322567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so what is a complete such one < 1277322601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277322622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means cauchy sequences converge < 1277322626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what that means is < 1277322674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1277322681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completeness is basically saying that there are no "holes" in the space, a cauchy sequence is a sequence such that the points in it get closer and closer to all the points in the rest of the sequence < 1277322716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for any epsilon > 0, there's a n_0 such that for all m, n > n_0, d(x_n, x_m) < epsilon < 1277322717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get that? < 1277322738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277322743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277322754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of changed what i was about to say midway :D < 1277322762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, if there is no holes in space it basically mean you will have an uncountable set? < 1277322769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i mean said two completely different things separated by a comma < 1277322781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, of course, from an integer's point of view, the integers have no holes ;) < 1277322816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no not necessarily, {0} is complete because the only cauchy sequence is x_i = 0 for all i, and clearly it approaches 0 (this shouldn't make sense to you because i haven't defined completeness yet) < 1277322833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, this being a degenerate sense of course? < 1277322836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277322840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sense/case/ < 1277322849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also is {} complete? < 1277322867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i suppose, but i doubt all people would define {} to be a metric space < 1277322874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1277322896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it would lead to having to add clutter in the beginning of proofs < 1277322896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes of course {} is imperial not metric < 1277322908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to say it oerjan isn't here < 1277322911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL funny dude hey so did you get cauchys < 1277322913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1277322924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277322925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1277322929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it says is < 1277322952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go far enough in the sequence, there will be no great distances between the rest of the points in the sequence. < 1277322972 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277322988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how do you make such a sequence then? I mean, if you just take any random number sequence it wouldn't be one of those < 1277323016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't, this is just how we define a cauchy sequence, i haven't said anything about how to interpret it < 1277323063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically this is a kind of sequence that you can force to be in arbitrarily small place < 1277323089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and completeness just means there will be a point where that sequence "lands" (the sequence converges) < 1277323103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in an < 1277323115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now to be a bit more concrete < 1277323115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277323135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, will that point be lim → inf? < 1277323144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1277323146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reals can be defined by taking rationals, and adding points so that cauchy sequences converge (although you need some additional stuff or you might get other spaces too) < 1277323158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the position in the sequence of it < 1277323164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1277323169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277323171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1277323174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry misunderstood < 1277323176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277323198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so in some sense there is no point where it converges then. Not any finite one at least < 1277323216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely far into the sequence I mean < 1277323217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to be precise, for any cauchy sequence (x_i) there is a point y such that for all e>0 there is an n_0 such that for all n>n_0 d(x_n, y) < e < 1277323240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277323256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the point of completeness is that "there is a point everywhere" < 1277323268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds crowded. < 1277323281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and e goes towards zero when x_n goes to inf? < 1277323297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we formalize this by defining cauchy sequences, sequences that gets closer and closer to *something* (because the distances between its elements get smaller), and completeness requires there's a point there < 1277323301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wait you said " reals can be defined by taking rationals, and adding points so that cauchy sequences converge (although you need some additional stuff or you might get other spaces too)" < 1277323304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that true for all reals? < 1277323305 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is totally overrun with euros. < 1277323310 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do something about that. < 1277323316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, maths. < 1277323324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ? < 1277323325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does the UK count as Euro? < 1277323334 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Depends who you ask :P < 1277323342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes that's one way to define reals < 1277323343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, they don't use EUR < 1277323344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not in the currency sense. < 1277323346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, even uncomputable ones? < 1277323354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I kind of know that. < 1277323355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1277323372 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: From the perspective of an American, Brits are just euros with funny teeth. < 1277323375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking if Gregor-W included us in "euros". < 1277323379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, huh, what is the catch then? It sounds like this should be easy to compute even for uncomputable ones then? < 1277323394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, that stereotype is baseless! < 1277323395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e doesn't really go towards zero in what i said, the definition just states "for any e" < 1277323420 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! I can build kernel modules! FINALLY. < 1277323426 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What's that? I couldn't understand you spitting through the gaps in your teeth. < 1277323442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh < 1277323443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one cauchy sequence that approaches a real number is the sequence of prefices of its digit expansion < 1277323455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277323462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, prefices? < 1277323470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefix in plural < 1277323471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plural of "prefix". < 1277323478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the pretentious. < 1277323488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 3.1, 3.14, 3.141, ... < 1277323488 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely pretentious. < 1277323488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck even aspell doesn't know it < 1277323495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretentious? < 1277323496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that doesn't help here < 1277323501 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-133-20-119.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277323509 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That would be because it's not actually a word, it's just a pretention masquerading as a word :P < 1277323511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you mean with a prefix in a digit expansion? < 1277323516 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how pretentious it is. < 1277323528 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OOC, would it be possible to define (well, or at least, describe) such things without sequences? Like, forall A, C where A < C, exists B where A < B < C < 1277323533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing pretentious about it < 1277323547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how x behaves when you add -es, on irc < 1277323554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but what do you mean with prefixes in digit expansions? < 1277323591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's a different concept called perfectness :) < 1277323600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is it the same thing... < 1277323607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as perfectness that is) < 1277323617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but anyway rationals have that property < 1277323622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet they are obviously not complete < 1277323634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approach sqrt(2) for instance) < 1277323643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, I see. It's not as strong, is it. < 1277323643 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1277323655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it's just it's different < 1277323660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what does such a sequence look like? < 1277323664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, lets say, the one for pi < 1277323686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see {0, 1} is complete with the metric d(0, 0) = d(1, 1) = 0, otherwise d(x,y)=! < 1277323687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1 < 1277323693 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a distance function to have completeness it seems, you have to show that A and B (or B and C) are really, uh, close. < 1277323708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277323709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are multiple cauchy sequences for it < 1277323717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly 7, you should try finding them < 1277323725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm joking, there are uncountably many) < 1277323728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277323776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: describe all you want but usually that just confuses things... :D < 1277323786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you didn't fool me. It is obvious that there can be an infinite number of them for any given number if the set you are working in is infinite < 1277323796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277323799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that? < 1277323804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean there's a very short proof) < 1277323823 0 :micahjohnston!~Adium@174-23-77-18.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277323844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well I don't have a proof. It just seems obvious from thinking about it. you could just add some more, further away, elements at the start of the sequence < 1277323852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277323854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the proof < 1277323857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with the relevant spacing I think < 1277323879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W00T, shared folders! < 1277323883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, do you have to "home" in on the number so that you have as much left on both sides all the time? < 1277323892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1277323903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, or can you kind of start with 0,9 and then home in on, say, 8.92 < 1277323916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add any finite amount of numbers in the beginning. < 1277323946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oklopol, but the number must always be between your numbers (every pair of them I mean? < 1277323963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, or can you start with 0,9 and "home in" on 842 ? < 1277323963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any e we need n_0 such that ..., assuming a sequence satisfies this, if you add k things in the beginning, always, given e, take n_0+k. < 1277324010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why only adding finitely number of elements? < 1277324026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add an infinite amount of elements to a sequence, you change it completely < 1277324046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, couldn't we keep adding new elements at the start forever? Hm wait maybe that is just infinite in potential < 1277324053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1277324072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could add elements forever. that means changing the whole sequence :) < 1277324106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for uncountability (in the real case), notice you can add small enough fluctuations to each element of the sequence < 1277324125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(smaller and smaller the farther you get) < 1277324171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as usual with sequences, we do not care at all what happens in the beginning, as long as the correct thing happens once we get far enough < 1277324310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1277324377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so these sequences must be infinite for irrationals right? < 1277324380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or starts happening, in this case what we want to happen is that we get a ball containing everything in the rest of the sequence (so this is like limits, except the ball is around sequence elements, not a the limit of the sequence) < 1277324389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-a < 1277324418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? what ball? < 1277324420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily small such ball < 1277324423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1277324445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of a ball in a metric spaces should be obvious but < 1277324457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B(x, r) = {y | d(x, y) < r} < 1277324458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well assume I'm not a mathematician < 1277324460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(open ball) < 1277324473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just another way to say that an element is close to another < 1277324486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, maths would be easier if you used names that were longer than one letter < 1277324490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call that obfuscated ;P < 1277324524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and is that | as in divides? Or yet another variant of the set construction notation? < 1277324534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen : and what not for it as well < 1277324568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, using multi-character variable names in maths is anathema. < 1277324591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason programming benefits from long names is that there are so many of them, in math most things are used a million times so you learn what the character stands for < 1277324598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: construction < 1277324602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for no particular reason < 1277324611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it means the set of all points y such that the distance from a point x to y is less than the radius. < 1277324629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I can read that once I know what the symbol means in this case < 1277324635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math likes operator overloading < 1277324637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1277324638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1277324659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, does maths have types? < 1277324675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even "type theory" < 1277324685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are obviously fields of it which use them, but does it apply to other fields? < 1277324687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more often you talk about sets, same thing really < 1277324711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes. < 1277324724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is all about what set the things you're talking about, and that's their "type" < 1277324727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"egg-dist-tmp-o0Mp0o" ... nice temp file name! < 1277324728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} = the set of all mathematicians using multi-char variable names < 1277324730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's operator theory, too, isn't there? < 1277324742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, i don't know what that is < 1277324745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION o0Mp0o's down the hall
< 1277324748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, python I presume < 1277324749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, that's called Ø IIRC. < 1277324753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes < 1277324760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but I didn't know how to type it < 1277324768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose-O-/ < 1277324782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, isn't that Danish ö? < 1277324792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they're identical. < 1277324801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Shift-AltGr-ö gives Ø < 1277324813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not in unicode I presume < 1277324822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is, actually. < 1277324825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well i guess it's sort of obvious it has to do with operators, but i don't really know what their definition is < 1277324831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brings up his character map
< 1277324844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nop ∅ < 1277324851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the unicode for empty set < 1277324857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really the kinds of operators you have in programming) < 1277324859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in this font it is different < 1277324860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there isn't a compose sequence for it. < 1277324870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I only try AltGr if I'm desperate. < 1277324877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas type theory is about THOSE kinds of types) < 1277324880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, altgr doesn't have it < 1277324890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr have Ø which is danish ö < 1277324891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how do you customise the compose sequences? < 1277324910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in theory there is a file you can put in ~ with that, never got it to work < 1277324927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1277324941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want compose-p-i to do the obvious thing < 1277324969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there is a file in /usr/share you could try as well < 1277324975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, probably needs to restart X in between < 1277324999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of the 411 entries in /usr/share is it? < 1277325032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should put an ad on the webs that i want someone to exchange definitions and proofs with, people at the math dep mostly just talk about boring irl stuff :( < 1277325039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usually like < 1277325048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-=≡≣ < 1277325053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Unicode. < 1277325074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's talking about seminars and shit and i just drift off and suddenly ask someone "so do you know of a generalization of ..." and everyone looks at me like "umm get a life dood" < 1277325088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not true, usually they enjoy answering my questions.) < 1277325101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then it's back to boringland) < 1277325113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that when I told my fellow mathematics scholars about the Pascal-Sierpinski thing. < 1277325141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⨌ For the love of god! < 1277325143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily i'm currently surrounded by people who know a lot more about everything than i do < 1277325154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't start lecturing < 1277325156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth would I need a quadruple-integral sign? < 1277325181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My font doesn't even support that one. < 1277325207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i consider explaining how theorems are proven the greatest form of communication) < 1277325235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy !&%@* when did nano start doing syntax colorring??? < 1277325238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't think I've ever told anyone a proof IRL. < 1277325244 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*colouring??? < 1277325250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unfortunately it's really hard to actually do formal proof in speech < 1277325258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, excepting some competitions, where it was marked by someone I never met. < 1277325284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: nano's done it pretty much forever IIRC, it's pico that doesn't do it < 1277325286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⩶ Triple equals sign. Where will that possibly be used. < 1277325297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why can't you just write "==="? < 1277325301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple equals signs are used for mod < 1277325302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277325303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ≡ is used all over the place in maths < 1277325306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for congruence < 1277325306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of it < 1277325312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's congruence. < 1277325326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about three consecutive equals signs. < 1277325332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant some sort of composite === that i saw as a rectangel < 1277325334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rectangle < 1277325335 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I must have been running an old version before, then. Also, I never noticed it's called "GNU Nano", now... < 1277325353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the syntax highlight library seems to be optional, at least on Ubuntu < 1277325358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have it installed < 1277325359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277325366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's talk about feather < 1277325369 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277325373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work exactly, again? < 1277325374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⫷ is pushing it. It's three nested Holy !&%@* when did nano start doing syntax colorring??? <-- I noticed that recently too < 1277325422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep changing my mind < 1277325424 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exact details of the language are subject to retroactive alteration. < 1277325427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it only doe one one of my systems < 1277325429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in other words yes, i suppose < 1277325435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good one < 1277325443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's truer than you might think < 1277325444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, even though arch linux should be bleeding edge it only happens on ubuntu for me < 1277325478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ⩴. ::=, could be nice for Thue programs. < 1277325481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never really got "bleeding edge", could someone explain it to me < 1277325490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it syntax-highlights by default for me too now < 1277325494 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If only it had a "go to line #" function, it would probably start looking like a viable editor for me. < 1277325495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, doesn't it mean that it probably doesn't work. < 1277325499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must have started bundling the highlight library with the program itself < 1277325506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain why everyone noticed it only recently < 1277325530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ^W ^T < 1277325531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhh < 1277325534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that is goto line < 1277325536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, iirc < 1277325548 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in nano? isn't it Esc-G? < 1277325551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I normally use emacs when programming, which is when I need goto line < 1277325558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wasn't aware that it's a joke on leading edge, i thought it was just another way to say "really modern and cool and shit" :D < 1277325568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1277325571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i also wasn't aware that it means it doesn't work < 1277325574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that sounds like emacs. < 1277325580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I was making that up. < 1277325589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i checked it < 1277325592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it is M-g g in emacs it seems < 1277325593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1277325603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to check with my fingers in emacs to remember < 1277325607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too used to it < 1277325611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muscle memory or something < 1277325612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277325616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, anyone remember Lumeniki? < 1277325625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i've seen bleeding edge used to just mean "the newest of new" < 1277325685 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed, ^W^T works. Thanks. < 1277325686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto line is M-g M-g in emacs < 1277325693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't < 1277325701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, I use that combo loads < 1277325710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's M-g g. < 1277325714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well. < 1277325717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I said that < 1277325725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, both work < 1277325729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-g g must be newer, though < 1277325730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why I said it. < 1277325740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I thought "bleeding edge" was a reference to "as new as possible -- so new, it's dangerous". < 1277325748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it says that at the bottom of the screen as you type C-w in nano < 1277325753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I instinctively type ^D after ^X^C now. < 1277325762 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277325766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, forgot ^K < 1277325809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What good would that do? < 1277325821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how did javadoc end up in perpet.c? < 1277325826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be your doing, I don't think I'd have done that myself < 1277325828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1277325831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, I'm just terribly surprised < 1277325837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you mean javadoc? < 1277325846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doxygen could be me. Javadoc: no < 1277325849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/** @param argc What do you think? */ < 1277325852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javadoc format < 1277325859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doxygen syntax to me < 1277325879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that doxygen used a pre-existing syntax < 1277325883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it worked on Java too < 1277325885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1277325891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't doxygen do \ as well < 1277325892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? < 1277325894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an alternative < 1277325904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: perpet.c is one of the source files in C-INTERCAL < 1277325908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway surely it fits in the general madness in there < 1277325921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought ESR maintained that. < 1277325921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1277325928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no ais523 does < 1277325929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're years out of date < 1277325935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1277325938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR generally has better things to do with his time < 1277325947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't need to boycott it any more. < 1277325962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the ESRisms have left by now < 1277325971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's come along a lot since the days of ESR < 1277325972 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come now, what could possibly be better use of one's time... < 1277325977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doxygen is like javadoc but for other languages and with a few extensions like accepting \ instead of @ < 1277325983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what better things can he do? < 1277325992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot people with GUNs? < 1277326017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, APT doesn't have C-INTERCAL. < 1277326019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, than what? < 1277326021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it does < 1277326027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's under the name "intercal" < 1277326031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, \ is for compat with something else iirc < 1277326032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277326033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, :P < 1277326046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Debian has the most recent stable version, but there's a more recent beta < 1277326050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the description is "an INTERCAL de-obfuscator". < 1277326054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, qtdocs sounds familiar < 1277326055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1277326057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a bad joke, and not one of mine < 1277326069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that machine code is easier to read than INTERCAL < 1277326075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1277326079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iinm qt should be newer than java < 1277326111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, iinm? < 1277326119 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm not mistaken < 1277326125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I... never mind < 1277326176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an IPv5? < 1277326185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, development version < 1277326188 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doxygen was first released in 1997, and javadoc in 1995 according to wikipedia < 1277326209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't that be iinn? < 1277326212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, but it's unrelated to v4 or v6 and has an entirely different purpose < 1277326219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, no? < 1277326223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's C-INTERCAL kept? < 1277326232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh wait < 1277326235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinko < 1277326236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://c.intercal.org.uk < 1277326270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, last I checked only ipv6 worked for that < 1277326275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's Claudio Calvelli? < 1277326284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems repaired now < 1277326285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's only for the gopher download, http works fine over v4 < 1277326293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CLC-INTERCAL chief developer < 1277326297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we share the domain name intercal.org.uk < 1277326302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1277326307 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277326319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.-2.0.29 is the latest? < 1277326321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both British, after all < 1277326323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1277326329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well for a while http over v4 was broken < 1277326330 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher ftw < 1277326332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a few weeks ago < 1277326343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, fully agreed < 1277326361 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277326540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I extract from archives with pax? < 1277326547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tar < 1277326560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pax is the POSIX standard archiving format < 1277326572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hardly anyone uses it (except Mac OS X) < 1277326582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only BSD seems to provide pax by default, but it's backwards-compatible with tar < 1277326592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and GNU tar recognises the format so you even get all the new pax features < 1277326606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point, then? < 1277326619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standards! when /nobody else uses them/! < 1277326628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL can't resist the opportunity to be correct where nobody else is < 1277326628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except OS X! < 1277326634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't count < 1277326639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1277326640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, in contrast to the common eval-phobia of Lisp'ers in the past, I'd like to see a language which embraces eval, and uses it for everything. < 1277326657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, surely one exists already? < 1277326661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do Underload-alikes count? < 1277326665 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'd like to see it! < 1277326674 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mmmm aybe. < 1277326675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses eval for all flow control < 1277326675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why a file extension at all < 1277326680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why do people hate eval? < 1277326680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after all there is file(1) < 1277326709 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because they love compiling ahead of time. < 1277326720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz < 1277326721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz: gzip compressed data, from Unix, last modified: Wed Apr 1 16:30:28 2009, max compression < 1277326740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well I wouldn't want eval in an implementation of /bin/su < 1277326748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file ick-0.-2.0.29.pax < 1277326750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick-0.-2.0.29.pax: POSIX tar archive < 1277326753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not bad < 1277326769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :su `whoami` < 1277326797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: isn't that just a little pointless? < 1277326823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$() dammit < 1277326828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike ` < 1277326829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just demonstrating that we already have something eval-y there. < 1277326834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to type on this keyboard < 1277326840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that ` is done in shell < 1277326842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not in su < 1277326847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so that doesn't count < 1277326866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wouldn't work if you started it from a C program with the execv() call < 1277326867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277326880 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know that. < 1277326929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches for historical versions of C-INTERCAL I don't have
< 1277326938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, seems FreeBSD has the SHA has for 0.17 < 1277326945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SHA1 hash < 1277326951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it has the tarball too? < 1277327026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1277327091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ask ESR? < 1277327103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a /try/ I suppose < 1277327116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not certain he's even aware that anyone else picked up the mantle of INTERCAL development < 1277327123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mail him? < 1277327138 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277327142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also online as esr, but in #wesnoth-dev < 1277327153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried IRCing him once, but he ignored me < 1277327165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, anyway < 1277327169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory's a bit hazy < 1277327170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR is a Wesnoth developer? That seems so... slumming. < 1277327179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, slumming? < 1277327182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reason to veto Wesnoth, though, IMO < 1277327196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I think he works on story stuff rather than the technical stuff mostly? Not sure < 1277327204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open Source is more important than ... just ... *games*! < 1277327227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wesnoth is one of the most popular foss games though < 1277327229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: games are one of the main reasons people don't switch to Linux, aren't they? < 1277327239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: possibly /the/ most popular, for all I know it even beats NetHack < 1277327264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah. I don't have statistics. Thus I didn't want to make any more specific claims < 1277327283 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Open Source is more than just getting people to switch to Linux! ... etc. I won't continue < 1277327289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, BSD too? < 1277327325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who thinks linux is the worst _kernel_ ever. No not a windows user. a *BSD user. < 1277327373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't see how a Windows user /could/ think Linux is the worst kernel ever, after all they have to actually live with the NT kernel < 1277327398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he based this opinion on reading parts of linux 2.2.0 < 1277327425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD people tend to be like that. < 1277327444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, he prefers windows over linux he says < 1277327446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true the BSD kernel is superior in a lot of ways. But surely there are worse kernels out there than Linux. < 1277327461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack > Wesnoth. < 1277327468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like both games < 1277327473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roguelike Wesnoth would be neat, though. < 1277327474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1277327484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the patience to micromanage. < 1277327496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277327519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like NetHack because you need to think, but you can concentrate. < 1277327527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really stand computer RPGs anymore. I mostly play arcade-type games, when I play, these days. < 1277327534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, because it's incredibly cool. < 1277327545 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get enough thinking with my job and my hobby. < 1277327552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never liked arcade < 1277327556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much about speed < 1277327561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm rather slow to react < 1277327579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I am at school. I get no intellectual stimulation whatsoever. < 1277327594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Touche. < 1277327600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, friend nerds? < 1277327608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you make me laugh. < 1277327616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK there isn't another nerd in my year. < 1277327628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm that will change at university < 1277327636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in the top computing class, and I believe I've bitched about that before. < 1277327655 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277327679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277327743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't a way to migrate NetHack saves, is there? < 1277327750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously not. < 1277327757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Wesnoth? < 1277327761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277327764 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1277327771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now /that/ would be a fun project < 1277327773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that was intentional right? < 1277327790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what was? < 1277327794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you rewrite nethack in that scripting language of wesnoth, forgot the name of it < 1277327796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it still encode the file's inode into the save to stop you from copying it? < 1277327804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WML? probably, it's just-about TC < 1277327806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, misinterpreting it as migrating to wesnoth rather than between computers < 1277327807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentional < 1277327808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an esolangy sort of way < 1277327826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it does have an anti-copy mechanism, but I'm not sure if it's that one specifically < 1277327829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, doing anything with NetHacks source is a task for the hardiest of esolang programmers. < 1277327835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the PID it embeds, I think, not the save file name < 1277327840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/NetHacks/NetHack's/ < 1277327841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop people duplicating levels in an open game < 1277327845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, who said that? < 1277327854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, me, from experience. < 1277327855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I never said you should touch nethack source < 1277327862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you should reverse engineer it < 1277327870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bloody hard too. < 1277327879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is a mass of preprocessor macros. < 1277327892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know what nethack source looks like < 1277327897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst bit is the indention < 1277327900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed tab and spaces < 1277327902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1277327903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's source is nothing compared to bits of Crawl < 1277327913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mixed tab-space is trivial to fix, just use indent or sed or something < 1277327915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, never looked at that < 1277327936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's source is an interesting intellectual puzzle; Crawl's made me feel physically sick < 1277327942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the way it declares parameter types after the ()s? < 1277327953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That threw me for a while. < 1277327958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard the Angband source is nice. The number of forks of it would seem to support that idea. < 1277327958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's old-style C < 1277327963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this file is funny. it seems to use 2,2,3,2,3 for the tab stops with spaces < 1277327968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that would make sense. < 1277327975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack predates C89 really catching on < 1277327977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no more levels to see if there is a pattern to it < 1277327986 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void main(int argc, char args[][]) < 1277327996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: that's actually invalid IIRC < 1277327999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, argv is the usually name < 1277328005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *args[] is the closest you can legally get < 1277328007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hurls a weasel at Gregor-W
< 1277328007 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, I typo'd args :P < 1277328010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, and yes it is invalid < 1277328016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because main should return int < 1277328017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not void < 1277328021 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At some point in C's history, "*" was not a valid way to name a pointer. < 1277328023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hah! < 1277328023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be even vaguely worthwhile to make a usable roguelike engine? < 1277328024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't illegal because of that afaik < 1277328031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: you needed to use ! in BCPL, I think < 1277328033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only because of return type < 1277328037 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could plausibly have NH ported to it. < 1277328093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway argv[][] should be completely valid afaik < 1277328100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1277328102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it shouldn't < 1277328112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it has to return int anyway < 1277328116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so invalid either way < 1277328123 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people are SO unhelpful. < 1277328131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, why? < 1277328142 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make a really stupid joke and you tear it to threads :P < 1277328154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, joke? I can't see any jokes < 1277328175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has occured to me in the past that C should be able to use Lispesque returning. < 1277328180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat > a.c \ int main(int argc, char argv[][]) {return 0;} \ $ gcc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -O3 a.c \ a.c:1: error: array type has incomplete element type \ a.c:1: warning: ‘main’ takes only zero or two arguments \ a.c: In function ‘main’: \ a.c:1: warning: unused parameter ‘argc’ \ a.c:1: warning: unused parameter ‘argv’ < 1277328185 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just writing really bad C. I should have done: void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { ... } < 1277328187 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose < 1277328194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep indeed < 1277328211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: proof right there < 1277328220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, only valid in K&R / C90 < 1277328223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not C99 afaik < 1277328226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on x86. < 1277328236 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: _REALLY_ _BAD_ _C_ < 1277328285 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include \nint main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Ain't I a stinker?\n"); } < 1277328292 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, meant void main ... < 1277328341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the bots down? < 1277328348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1277328348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef _REALLY__BAD__C_ < 1277328349 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does the java interpreter?: ( destructure-case ' ( 1 2) < 1277328352 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't be. < 1277328356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good old fungot. < 1277328357 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1277328357 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1277328357 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: one of the happy users of v2.0 i can tell emacs to ' show me' the open parens corresponding to the actual standard being sane) scheme implementations support all of the control stack between the invocation of the macro < 1277328365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hello < 1277328372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1277328373 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1277328375 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.26862 \ wunderbar_emporium < 1277328384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hello < 1277328384 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1277328448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo /me bows < 1277328449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me bows < 1277328496 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo /quit Boy people wish this kind of thing would work, good thing Gregor isn't that stupid. < 1277328498 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quit Boy people wish this kind of thing would work, good thing Gregor isn't that stupid. < 1277328557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is contrained by the Fifth Law of Robotics: Never give up! < 1277328568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constrained < 1277328593 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHALLENGE: Write an IRC client that applies fixes made by "*fix" and "s/bad/fix/" syntax. < 1277328603 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The first is the major challenge) < 1277328620 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHALLENGE RELEVANCE: Write this client in ... Brainfuck? < 1277328687 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it in malbolge with a genetic algorithm < 1277328756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo
ACTION bows
< 1277328758 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows
< 1277328873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the 0x1s at the start? < 1277328895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ACTION bows < 1277328896 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows < 1277328917 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees someone on reddit mention "Alex Smith"
< 1277328933 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so tempted to say something like "I talk to Alex Smith online on a semi-regular basis" < 1277328968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1277328976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are approximately 10 alex smiths more famous than me < 1277328982 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277328990 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the comment is referring to you < 1277328999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best known is the American footballer < 1277329003 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/ci4dl/today_would_have_been_alan_turings_98th_birthday/c0sqaic < 1277329016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I filter links... < 1277329027 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is a personal story about how he came to learn about Turing and his work. I liked it. < 1277329027 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He even gave Alex Smith the credit he deserves. Also: I liked his speculations about Turing's death. If it was an accident we can go back to hating gays, right?" < 1277329042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1277329055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wrote whatever "it" refers to in the comment? < 1277329069 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram < 1277329108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277329151 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277329383 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1277329460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolang wiki page for FALSE says it might not be TC. It seems to be it is TC because it can simulate the lambda calculus (this is one of the example programs.) Of course, there may be some subtlety in the way. < 1277329528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bounded-memory issue? < 1277329533 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1277329571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, only a finite number of variable names (but if they can be closed over, that shouldn't be a huge problem). Also, only one stack (but you ought to be able to create lists using closures.) < 1277329601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me gives myself a link: http://esolangs.org/wiki/FALSE < 1277329611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it works when I do it >:) < 1277329652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki commentary seems to have missed the existence of a lambda operation altogether < 1277329691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nthern wrote a TCness proof on the talkpage < 1277329703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, weird. < 1277329727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon has the first 3 volumes of The Sandman, new, for a sane price. < 1277329738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem to be based on embedding lambda calculus, but rather doing pulling the same trick as SMITH but with data rather than code < 1277329747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume 4 is available for £67 used. < 1277329754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe they got the rights to print the first three volumes < 1277329780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon don't print The Sandman AFAIK. < 1277329783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon has book-printing machines, they realised at some point it would save time and effort to simply print the books themselves on demand rather than having to buy them in from elsewhere < 1277329798 0 :micahjohnston2!~Adium@174-23-77-18.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277329821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the editions are identical to the ones found in normal bookshops. < 1277329857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are new editions, but there was something weird with them, too. < 1277329902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it costs 3 times as much as the first 3. < 1277329918 0 :micahjohnston2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277330001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about hard cover? < 1277330010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and different paper qualities and so on < 1277330011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know the details < 1277330063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, these points are all salient. < 1277330068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, books varies a lot. Everything from cheap paper back and books for small children with plastic pages, to huge books with high quality paper with photos and such on < 1277330099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I'm aware that it would be a valid issue, but I'm also telling you that I don't know the details and thus can't answer your concerns < 1277330105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277330106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the first 3 volumes are all available as new paperbacks. < 1277330108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 can get away with this, you can't < 1277330115 0 :micahjohnston!~Adium@174-23-77-18.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277330124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe I'm turning into zzo!? < 1277330128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, get away with what? < 1277330150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: repeatedly assuming that people know the answers to your questions despite a) no context, and b) they already having told you they don't know < 1277330184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I wasn't asking you. I was just continuing my thread of thought < 1277330203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second time I mean < 1277330228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway you are working on ick I heard? < 1277330237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What more could it need? < 1277330244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you have to know about those doxygen comments, you reviewed my patches after all < 1277330257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I forgot again afterwards < 1277330260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277330267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then vaguely reremembered, but forgot all the details < 1277330281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. Well what were you doing in perpet.c? < 1277330289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we going to see anything interesting < 1277330292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing nano's syntax highlighting < 1277330299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the first C file I thought of to test on < 1277330303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, perpet.c isn't the worst one < 1277330311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate 3.x used to fail at some other file < 1277330314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which one < 1277330324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a file in the INTERCAL source that break's Kate's syntax hilighting? < 1277330325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might have been uncommon.c or perpet.c before fixes < 1277330336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This implementation was created by Eric S. Raymond < 1277330336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during a fit of lunacy from which he has since mostly recovered." < 1277330337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate 3.x not 4.x I think < 1277330344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I debate that. < 1277330345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breaks < 1277330354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can recover from one lunacy into another < 1277330358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and if it was perpet.c I probably worked around that when I was making the other changes since I think I used kate for it < 1277330361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point. < 1277330371 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The INTERCAL lunacy was preferable, though. < 1277330381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are a few comments around whose purpose is to unconfuse Emacs < 1277330388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember whether they're in INTERCAL or something else < 1277330397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably something else, because I seem to remember the language being Perl < 1277330399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate mostly get confused when you have stuff like: < 1277330404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef ... < 1277330407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kate always seemed to have very good syntax highlighting. < 1277330410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277330410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (...) { < 1277330414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1277330415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (...) { < 1277330417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1277330417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it beats any other program I've tried, including Emacs < 1277330418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it had some baffling omissions, < 1277330423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octave, but not M$> < 1277330424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't match up then with the { and } < 1277330431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, meaning code folding breaks < 1277330431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/M$/M4/ < 1277330432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1277330438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't syntax highlighting, but I get your point < 1277330469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think kate broke on some syntax too before < 1277330476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, preprocessor thing most likely < 1277330502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I forgot if it was kate or emacs that I managed to get to break badly on bash code once < 1277330510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got confused about where a string ended < 1277330534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it a heredoc? anyway < 1277330536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1277330538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Emacs getting confused by a weird string in Bash once. < 1277330564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All Known Implementing Classes: RequestProcessorFactoryFactory.RequestSpecificProcessorFactoryFactory, RequestProcessorFactoryFactory.StatelessProcessorFactoryFactory" < 1277330565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in a $() ? < 1277330572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some editor having issues with that < 1277330576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1277330580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, java? < 1277330584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't in a $() though < 1277330587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes; the apache libs to be precise < 1277330589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm < 1277330594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is a joke right? < 1277330604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people were talking about overuse of design patterns; and someone said that was the worst example they knew of < 1277330608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a joke < 1277330613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1277330620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, factory factory is just broken < 1277330628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first para of the docs is fun too: "The request processor is the object, which is actually performing the request. There is nothing magic about the request processor: It may very well be a POJO. The RequestProcessorFactoryFactory is passed to the AbstractReflectiveHandlerMapping at startup. The mapping uses this factory to create instances of RequestProcessorFactoryFactory.RequestProcessorFactory, which are used to initialize the < 1277330630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReflectiveXmlRpcHandler. The handler in turn uses its factory to create the actual request processor when a request comes in." < 1277330651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it intentional that the compiler flags for C-INTERCAL are full of -DICK*s? < 1277330657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1277330664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a habit of triggering rude words by mistake < 1277330670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels juvenile.
< 1277330677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else is still convinced the :aSS in the Underload quine is intentional < 1277330679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I never noticed that < 1277330680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't either < 1277330694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never noticed that either < 1277330704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I hadn't noticed it all along < 1277330706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also those docs sound horrible < 1277330713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ws.apache.org/xmlrpc/apidocs/org/apache/xmlrpc/server/RequestProcessorFactoryFactory < 1277330715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see for yourself if you want < 1277330724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want it < 1277330732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DICKDATADIR. < 1277330745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs do at least explain why a factory factory is useful < 1277330749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it does what it says on the tin. < 1277330749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would be like what is said about necrotelicomicon (sp?) in the Discworld books! < 1277330787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Necrotelecomnicon. < 1277330792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks < 1277330863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know about the things that make you feel "the future is here. fuck the flying cars!" ? < 1277330879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think panorama stitching is one of those < 1277330898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i and n do in Befunge-98? < 1277330915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i is "load file into funge space" and n is "clear stack" < 1277330917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why? < 1277330925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to understand a polyglot < 1277330927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is broken < 1277330937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the one on stackoverflow? < 1277330940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is broken < 1277330941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see logs < 1277330955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I rarely logread nowadays < 1277330957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is 93 but depends on unknown pushing ascii value < 1277330971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1277330977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how it ended up in stringmode < 1277330986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no double-quotes in the entire program < 1277330998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Befunge impl pushes unknown values? < 1277331027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one linked on there iirc < 1277331031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only one we know of < 1277331036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a java applet < 1277331046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would be pointless to link you to it of course < 1277331062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following on cpressey's earlier suggestion, how can you make an extremely eval-dependent language? < 1277331071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and I can find it easily enough anyway < 1277331086 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FALSE does not have any way to create new lambda functions not in the source, so those don't help." Says Oerjan. :/ < 1277331086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: have no commands but eval, add the minimum syntax needed for TCness < 1277331101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that possible? < 1277331102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are functions not first-class? < 1277331117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, presumably /some/ level of added stuff gives TCness < 1277331121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is finding how much < 1277331144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277331178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, FALSE doesn't really have functions, does it? < 1277331184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for oerjan's comment, I'm not sure I understand it < 1277331194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the lambdas are somehow evaluated at compile-time < 1277331201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it has "lambdas" that aren't closures, or something < 1277331229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need closures for first-class functions? < 1277331276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, C has first-class functions. < 1277331277 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can't return functions from functions in FALSE, and yes, that would be critical to e.g. building lists from them. < 1277331278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but you do need them to be able to generate TCness purely with functions < 1277331283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C does not have first-class functions < 1277331297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has function pointers. < 1277331298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no (portable) way to copy a function in C, something which should definitely be possible with first-class values < 1277331321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So they're immutable! < 1277331329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to copy an immutable value, right? < 1277331333 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277331358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: just because you don't /need/ to copy something... < 1277331382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there no standardised way of executing code generated at runtime? < 1277331393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope < 1277331406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice, casting a char array to a function pointer and calling it tends to work < 1277331413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was... < 1277331423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about non-executable memory? < 1277331430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it crashes < 1277331437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is assuming you make the char array in executable memory somehow < 1277331445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do things like GNU Lightning work, then? < 1277331448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no portable way to do that either < 1277331467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frameworks for doing such things probably have several nonportable ways, one for each platform where it needs to run < 1277331477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, damn you for having such a common name. < 1277331495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you take that back please! < 1277331500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly dislike religious insults < 1277331508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damning someone is a wish for the worst possible thing to happen to them < 1277331522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1277331529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even believe in hell! < 1277331529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what it means < 1277331537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I wish for you to go to it? < 1277331558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a standard way to copy them in C. Assigning a function pointer. However: they are copy on write ;) < 1277331558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know people like throwing insults around without caring about their meaning, but they should be a bit more sensiive < 1277331561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sensitive < 1277331592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not religious either, but I still take offense to comments like that < 1277331593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't want you to go to any form of hell. Does that count as a rescindsion? < 1277331607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea about that last word. < 1277331614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you react to "fuck you"? In Swedish, sexual insults are _way_ worse than religious ones. < 1277331623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should exist, but it looks wrong. < 1277331625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is wishing for someone to be fucked really an insult? < 1277331632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1277331637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't recognise the word either, but know what it means < 1277331646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I thought that applied in English. < 1277331660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, thought it was the reverse in English? < 1277331661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck" is generally considered far less acceptable than "damn". < 1277331666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm < 1277331667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1277331681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe it was in south Europe it was the other way around < 1277331687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that it was somewhere < 1277331687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possily. < 1277331700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for most people, yes; but I think that's a crazy way round for it to be < 1277331704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some Americans are touchy about religious language. < 1277331742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they tend to be the sort of people who wouldn't tolerate any swearing at all. < 1277331763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally mind swearing, although I feel it's mostly inappropriate and pointless < 1277331855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly mind it, but I try not to go beyond mild curses. < 1277331875 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to never swear in public. In private, with my computer open, is a different story < 1277331898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make sure I have an appropriately strong expletive when I type "rm * \~" when not in zsh. < 1277331903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fuck the damn swearing? < 1277331909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words < 1277331914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't even make sense... < 1277331923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you translate all the words back into their original meanings < 1277331925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or when it turns out that my IRC client has been giving my name ou on whois. < 1277331941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... well of course.... But it does make sense in modern meanings in that context < 1277331987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if your name is Phantom Hoover, profane now because that's what whois says < 1277332006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it isn't. < 1277332008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, um rm like that won't work for me :P http://sprunge.us/LFRQ < 1277332014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, two safe guards there < 1277332029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I can't see why you would type a \ before the ~ there < 1277332030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it was \~, not just ~/ < 1277332040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, remove backup files. < 1277332046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to accumulate. < 1277332049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes that would be rm *~ < 1277332051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no \ there < 1277332054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277332068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose. < 1277332076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, look again btw. 1) ~ is a dir, it would not get removed by rm without -r < 1277332082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) I use rm -I at the end < 1277332090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-I asks if more than 3 files or something like that < 1277332091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there was a * on its own. < 1277332093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it asks once though < 1277332099 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: re eval lang: One thing you can do is replace blocks with strings. You can just say if("a>3", "print a") and suchlike. < 1277332102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \~ was unimportand. < 1277332103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes and that rm -I will guard < 1277332113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guard against* < 1277332122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and you should use version control and backups anyway < 1277332155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I have already told you that I haven't got anything important. < 1277332166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway rm -I is a good idea < 1277332168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the docs < 1277332179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it asks once, not once per file < 1277332180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1277332186 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277332189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only if more than 3 files or such < 1277332193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot exact limit < 1277332201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, alias that or such < 1277332201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh safeguards by default in any case. < 1277332214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? it special cases rm? < 1277332219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1277332227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well how else would it guard against that < 1277332230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must special case < 1277332231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that was an idiomatic statement with little meaning. < 1277332235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't know your intention < 1277332261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it probably has special behaviour on rm, yes. < 1277332291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh is basically the Emacs philosophy applied to a shell, remember? < 1277332309 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! I liked zsh < 1277332320 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I hear it has something to do with emacs :( < 1277332336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said philosophy. < 1277332342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't share a line of code. < 1277332368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have great respect for any program with a manual page that needs to be split across 17 files. < 1277332389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have scarcely touched its magnificence. < 1277332399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use a zshrc I found online < 1277332416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is it 17 files? < 1277332436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 16. < 1277332445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 17th is everything glued together. < 1277332459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still very impressive. < 1277332473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for slow youtube
< 1277332474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash's is probably about the same size, except they never bothered splitting it < 1277332496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I love emacs and hate zsh < 1277332500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not hate < 1277332507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that bash is enough < 1277332514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought zsh was the union of all other Bourne shell derivatives. < 1277332519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also how do you fix that zsh doesn't treat # as a comment in interactive shell < 1277332521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, but it's so convenient! < 1277332526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is my main irritating with zsh < 1277332527 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277332537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I tend to comment out line temporarily to put them in history < 1277332538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably an option for that. < 1277332540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then go back up < 1277332540 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277332541 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used zsh furiously until I stopped caring about shells and went to the default one instead < 1277332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes but which one < 1277332554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I never found it < 1277332557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way madness lies. < 1277332558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh. For great justice! < 1277332585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I sshed to systems where pdksh is default and only shell < 1277332600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, INTERACTIVE_COMMENTS perhaps? < 1277332623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1277332626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm I had to find the right zsh man page first < 1277332631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is tricky :P < 1277332637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setopt interactive_comments in .zshrc. < 1277332645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, this is why Google is good. < 1277332656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also zsh doesn't do anything I want that bash doesn't. Bash 4 added the last feature I was missing < 1277332660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was assoc arrays < 1277332678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tab completion is very good. < 1277332686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:04 as for oerjan's comment, I'm not sure I understand it < 1277332686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:14 unless the lambdas are somehow evaluated at compile-time < 1277332686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:21 or it has "lambdas" that aren't closures, or something < 1277332687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I guess you can't return functions from functions in FALSE, and yes, that would be critical to e.g. building lists from them." <<< cps < 1277332689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have trouble doing without it. < 1277332690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I never had issues with bash tab complete < 1277332701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume not being closures is what i meant < 1277332724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh's isn't necessary, just very helpful. < 1277332738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't even need to use ls when you have it. < 1277332752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sort of. < 1277332760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't include some file types. < 1277332770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1277332776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so how to do ls -li < 1277332781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pure zsh < 1277332781 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277332789 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1277332796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, OK, "don't need" was wrong. < 1277332800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :righ t < 1277332800 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cpressey hi! < 1277332803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1277332803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not necessary as much. < 1277332806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now. night < 1277332820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: hi < 1277332822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it can tab-complete options for a lot of programs. < 1277332831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hi! < 1277332832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bash has stolen that feature < 1277332834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait < 1277332839 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks
< 1277332845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good one, but not zsh-unique any more < 1277332849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Hi, ais523! < 1277332851 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love-hate skin cream. < 1277332853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, OK. < 1277332869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" if you translate all the words back into their original meanings" <<< why would you translate to original meanings when you could just use the current meanings? < 1277332874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the prompts can be incredibly pretty. < 1277332881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because the current meanings are incorrect? < 1277332894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you seem to be having a nick identity crisis? < 1277332898 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't for E45/HC45 (ok, and antihistamine) this eczma would be unbearable. < 1277332903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277332910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it feels icky. < 1277332999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you mean? < 1277333019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most swearword meanings don't come from anywhere < 1277333025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just use them < 1277333067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like "dog" is meaningless, people just use it < 1277333079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you're just silly < 1277333080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its meaning comes from somewhere < 1277333081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay < 1277333086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go to sleep < 1277333088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277333114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, just like fuck and damn originally came somewhere and started to mean something else < 1277333150 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I have forgone the idea of writing my OS by dismissing the very concept of an "Operating System" as outdated. I am instead writing my own Computing Environment. < 1277333155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although fuck still has its original meaning, i don't think damning is a very useful concept anymore < 1277333169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except to you) < 1277333272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1277333323 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277333334 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I decided that,,, years ago < 1277333337 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*... < 1277333366 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277333370 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will ais523 still freak if I damn him? :) < 1277333399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the discussion is about < 1277333400 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So, you're reinventing SmallTalk?] < 1277333406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm gone though) < 1277333406 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Or are you reinventing EMACS? < 1277333417 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: But Better. < 1277333421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:22 oklopol, prefices? < 1277333421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:30 prefix in plural < 1277333435 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277333435 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no snarkiness to cpressey. That's a rule. < 1277333443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not etymologically correct, since the original latin is something like "prefixum" < 1277333450 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, it is now. < 1277333465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i would've thought because fix is fixes in plural < 1277333480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case it's prefices < 1277333482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: These virii are destroying my prefices! Ow, my foetus! < 1277333485 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Snarkiness tolerated and encouraged | Well, except for that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D] < 1277333497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just how it is, deal with it < 1277333503 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comedy of entymological errors. < 1277333528 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So is your STUFF serialisable? Eh? Eh?! < 1277333529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foetus? < 1277333542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well if you had a latin word "prefix", its plural could very well have been "prefices". 3rd declination. < 1277333544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the plural of foe < 1277333564 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h26.31.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277333568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: (It's mainly so I can use the letters CE and wave my hands over anyone antiquatedly using the letters OS, of course.) < 1277333600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: My STUFF is serializable, but it's meaning is not always. Oooh! Deep! < 1277333603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay. it's still prefices. but x's turn to c's, no exceptions < 1277333606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-but < 1277333614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: aargh, "CE" and "OS" in the same sentence -> bad connotations < 1277333619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ehirdiphone is merely spitting out some other common latin bastardizations < 1277333622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is that, I realize/ < 1277333622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact xylophone -> cylophones < 1277333631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Windows fans dislike Windows CE, as far as I can tell < 1277333638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I've never used it, so I only have secondhand opinions < 1277333646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's foetus < 1277333648 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even people who work on Windows CE dislike WIndows CE :P < 1277333663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sometimes in lating they turn to g instead. e.g. rex, reges < 1277333669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*latin < 1277333680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but not in english < 1277333693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english they always turn to c's, except sometimes they turn into 2 c's < 1277333698 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277333715 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lating (adjective): Pretentiously adding Latinate suffixes to Englishate words. < 1277333723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277333739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don' be hatin' my latin' < 1277333777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: It' < 1277333790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: *suffices < 1277333791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1277333794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: foetus means a not yet born body. however the "correct" spelling is fetus, oe is a hypercorrection. iirc. < 1277333798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: It's fair to say that many WinCE at the thought, yes. < 1277333813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beauty of that pseudocorrection is that it fits the flow of the conversation just fine whether it's technically correct or technically incorrect < 1277333831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinXE -> WinCEs < 1277333838 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When pluralizing the word "suffix", it suffices to use "suffices". < 1277333884 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I never thought about this ... < 1277333884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i would say i knew that, but if that were the case then why would i have asked < 1277333890 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT4 -> 2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7 < 1277333896 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one didn't deserve a number? < 1277333921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP has a number? < 1277333942 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god close call < 1277333951 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the latest version is 7, and that number is in the same series as NT 3 and 4, then 5 and 6 both had codenames. But which? < 1277333956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277333963 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heart beat entered stratosphere < 1277333965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you meant < 1277333970 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that number isn't in the same series as 3 and 4, then why did they pull a number out of their asses? :P < 1277333989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did pretty much pick a number that sounded good for marketing < 1277333994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: OK, um, well, if I'm actually thinking about my own CE, which I'm not officially, but anyway, I'm toying with the idea that STUFF is SExps + meanings for those SExps, where meanings are expressed as rewrite rules, which are denoted with SExps. (This is all leftover from Rho.) That makes them trivially serializable. < 1277334002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it helps, Vista is 6 < 1277334004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the lucky os" < 1277334013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and XP is either 5 or 4, i forget which < 1277334038 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If XP is 4, then it'd been 4 since the mid-90s, and 5 just got lost :P < 1277334039 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ask me why I almost had a heart attack < 1277334044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the receiver doesn't like the meanings you're sending them, they don't have to use them. I was reading about Nock and Urbit and thinking about how crude some parts of it are. < 1277334047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: OK < 1277334060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Why did you almost have a heart attack, anyway? < 1277334061 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unlike ipv5 I suppose. < 1277334061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: i'm assuming someone checked upon your room, or something? < 1277334064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: can you imply the question? < 1277334073 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1277334102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try running around in circles a bit or something to burn off the excess blood sugar < 1277334104 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[knock] [door opens] "sorry didn't realise you were in bed" < 1277334118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 11pm < 1277334121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i was waiting for people to ask me to eat, and when they asked, i almost had a heart attack because the silence was broken < 1277334126 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had <1sec to lock it so no light and hold it off edge of bed < 1277334138 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is. And? < 1277334146 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they'd hear that. < 1277334160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: assuming someone your age isn't in bed at 11pm seems implausible < 1277334167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I years behind the time? < 1277334172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1277334173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277334183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be unreasonable to expect them to actually be /asleep/ < 1277334183 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... < 1277334188 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try 1-2 am < 1277334192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par for the course would be lying in bed pretending to be asleep < 1277334194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ehirdiphone's age, assuming he's not drunk at 11pm seems implausible < 1277334200 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here the bedtimes are enforced. < 1277334204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst actually secretly reading a book or something, or I suppose using a mobile nowadays < 1277334216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, exactly what actually /was/ happening < 1277334220 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1277334222 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Book" < 1277334227 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We have a new system nowadays, it is called "fuck you parents" < 1277334229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I don't own a mobile < 1277334236 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I wouldn't recommend it. < 1277334237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always used to illicitly read books < 1277334240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while sitting on the windowsill < 1277334244 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: "I was Reading it for the articles" < 1277334261 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE CENTERFOLD HAS EXCELLENT ARTICLES" < 1277334265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, I could get light (from the streetlights outside), whilst simultaneously leaving the curtains closed so nothing was suspicious < 1277334269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hardcore < 1277334273 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illicit book Reading < 1277334279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc I don't fit on the windowsill < 1277334281 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Those articles of clothing on the chair in the background! Excellent articles! < 1277334296 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READING DOES NOT HAVE A CAPITAL R, APPLE < 1277334308 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1277334308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays < 1277334316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it < 1277334332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, the only plausible reason to own playboy is because you're curious as to what the articles are < 1277334334 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I read Playboy for the articles, I use youporn.com for porn" < 1277334345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is something wrong with my reasoning here? < 1277334347 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Iphone spell correction < 1277334355 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Ah :P < 1277334357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Reading is a city... < 1277334358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it < 1277334362 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :186| reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it < 1277334376 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Some people are dumb. < 1277334384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just restarted firefox after installing a slew of plugins. it looks like a ricer dashboard, and the actual webpage is 1/4 the size of the browser window. i'll have to configure all of that shit away. < 1277334389 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1277334392 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up, dude? < 1277334393 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, computer in family space? But that's rare now. < 1277334395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you install a slew of plugins? < 1277334405 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I recommend not installing a slew of plugins :P < 1277334408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: then just use it at 3am, or whatever < 1277334438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because. that's why. < 1277334449 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people can't delete browser history :P < 1277334455 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilarity is a guy saying "I only read Playgirl for the articles" < 1277334474 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. PLAYGIRL? < 1277334476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I delete it every now and then just because it gets crufty < 1277334482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that really... < 1277334483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Epiphany, at least, which is my cruft browser < 1277334483 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Gregor-W a markov bot? < 1277334494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't think so < 1277334497 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you are. < 1277334502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could probably replace 99% of IRC with a markovbot < 1277334503 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1277334507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not see any noticeable difference < 1277334510 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1277334511 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Nuh uh! < 1277334512 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuh uh! < 1277334544 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1277334549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1277334597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sex isn't rational, paying for a playboy might be sexier to some than looking at porn on the internet (although knowing you can get it for free might just render both uninteresting in that case) < 1277334623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I tried looking at porn a while back but couldn't really see the point < 1277334626 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninteresting because it's free. < 1277334630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails at its intended purpose < 1277334630 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Porn. < 1277334635 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277334647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think it has a useful secondary purpose < 1277334656 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "making toast" < 1277334669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while I just got bored and went back to watching tool-assisted speedruns < 1277334681 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still masturbating though. < 1277334687 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277334688 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow he beat world 4-3 faaaaaast < 1277334694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: nah < 1277334707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do you say you could probably replace 99% of IRC with a markovbot < 1277334710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagination > crappy reality, it seems < 1277334719 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at that gigantic, pulsating ...energy gun < 1277334722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because the other people would be markovbots too and couldn't tell the difference < 1277334733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please tell me more < 1277334748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, I'm not falling for /two/ lines of that < 1277334758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277334760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you actually running an ELIZA-style bot, or just imitating one? < 1277334768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imitating < 1277334782 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaan < 1277334789 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just reminded me of how much I wanted to implement botornot.com < 1277334795 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277334803 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse Turing test with user-submitted bots. < 1277334826 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal: Talk to a random stranger and try to convince them that you, rather than the bot they're also talking to, are a bot. < 1277334827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1277334827 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1277334835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1277334835 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1277334838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1277334839 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you start at the office, and kill him not: then i knew it could below and between the chest by the tumtum tree, unless you like getting whacked with a one, the sort of giddy fever. he is the overlord over all of the lever well under, and the starlight, and then i'm sure you've got a wonderful programme lined up for this afternoon!" < 1277334909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, one of my friends asked what a markovbot was < 1277334912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was generating an example < 1277334935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if 99% of IRC was markovbots, what would they use as source material? other markovbots? < 1277334938 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravititty: a breast that generates its own gravity. < 1277334953 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ELIZA < 1277334979 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELIZA Yudkowsky < 1277334982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried connecting two ELIZAs to each other once, the results weren't pretty < 1277335002 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They start yelling at each other. < 1277335021 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE!" < 1277335023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should so be an elizalike which recognises copies of itself < 1277335027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jumps into a pre-scripted conversation < 1277335043 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems bizarrely intuitive and intelligent :P < 1277335050 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wait ... you're not another bot, are you?" < 1277335053 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You caught me, I am!" < 1277335061 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Oh dear. I appear to have developed sentience." < 1277335066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, .org is now completely ported to DNSSEC < 1277335068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: classic < 1277335099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay I'll be Jack, you be Lizzy, 3-2-1-go." < 1277335122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right at the end they should become aware that someone's watching their conversation < 1277335126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drop back into "stupid bot" mode < 1277335136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, nice idea with that reverse turing test < 1277335138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and act like they hope nobody noticed < 1277335177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a variant of the Turing test where you have a human pretending to be a computer pretending to be a human < 1277335189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aim of it is to make the experimenter look foolish < 1277335208 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277335228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, one of the best Slashdot polls ever is up at the moment: http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=2006&aid=-1 < 1277335231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I tried connecting two ELIZAs to each other once, the results weren't pretty <-- yeah I tried two M-x doctor against each other. It goes like "Does it worry you that does it worry you that is this why you came to me?" < 1277335239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and worse < 1277335251 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is CowboyNeal an option? < 1277335254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: no < 1277335259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the poll somehow manages to be epic anyway < 1277335266 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sucks < 1277335270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people trying to figure out the true distribution by analyzing the answers mathematically < 1277335274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um I think we have a paradox here < 1277335292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CowboyNeal's only been a poll option once in the last year or so, and he actually won < 1277335297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the question /was/ pretty stupid < 1277335301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah wait, people can actually select "Never submit an answer", they are the ones in "Sometimes submit a truthful answer while lying at other times" < 1277335319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or always lie < 1277335335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277335336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while always lie must be from somtimes or random < 1277335343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again yes < 1277335350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite the logic puzle < 1277335356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed! < 1277335367 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem like all that much of a puzzle to me :P < 1277335426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1695660&cid=32668048 if you want some fun < 1277335492 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: One of my favourite polls: < 1277335513 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which option will get the fewest votes? < 1277335520 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] This one < 1277335523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: then five identical options? < 1277335526 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] This one < 1277335532 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just 2. < 1277335541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be four identical options, plus CowboyNeal < 1277335548 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can see the results it's intense. < 1277335549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or options with some connotation but with no context < 1277335581 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition most people lose. < 1277335587 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1277335607 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you know the votes for A and B, A>B. < 1277335636 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1277335642 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget my reasoning < 1277335652 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1277335655 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically < 1277335660 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you choose B < 1277335666 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know others will too < 1277335673 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since B is smaller < 1277335685 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yurt nobody will vote a since it's bigger < 1277335703 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So vote A. But then what if everyone else uses the same logic? < 1277335761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some serious applied game theory man. < 1277335765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: always vote for the smaller at the moment. The reason is, if B never catches up to A, you're correct; if B ever does catch up to A, then at that point it will be symmetrical, and thus it doesn't matter which you chose by symmetry < 1277335891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your reasoning only applies in the interesting case where everyone gets to see the votes, say, an hour after the poll opened < 1277335896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no future votes from that point on < 1277335980 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is seriously awesome :P < 1277336419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1277336582 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1277336588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy < 1277336590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1277336594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bye < 1277336600 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1277336605 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you really want to do is have versions of this where the results are only revealed at the end of the voting entirely, where the results are revealed immediately after voting, and where results which are N hours hold are revealed before voting. < 1277336637 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N-hours-before system might average out to a sine wave if you had enough voters :P < 1277336648 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hold/old/ < 1277336857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, couldn't you play that music on zee with